1 in the circuit court of monongalia county 2...

1

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MONONGALIA COUNTY 1

WEST VIRGINIA 2

3

WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY )

BOARD OF GOVERNORS, for ) 4

and on behalf of )

WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY, ) 5

)

) 6

Plaintiff, )

) 7

vs. ) Civil Action No. 07-C-851

) 8

RICHARD RODRIGUEZ, ) Judge Stone

) 9

)

Defendant. ) 10

11

- - - 12

13

DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL L. BROWN 14

VOLUME I 15

(Morning Session)

16

DATE: May 5, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. 17

PLACE: Marriott Courtyard 18

2435 East Mall Drive

Holland, Ohio 19

REPORTER: Casey G. Schreiner, RMR-RDR 20

Notary Public

21

22

- - -

23

24

2

APPEARANCES: 1

On behalf of the Plaintiff: 2

FITZSIMMONS LAW OFFICES: 3

Robert P. Fitzsimmons

Robert J. Fitzsimmons 4

1609 Warwood Avenue

Wheeling, West Virginia 26003 5

(304) 277-2700

6

and

7

FLAHERTY, SENSABAUGH & BONASSO,

P.L.L.C.: 8

Jeffrey M. Wakefield

Jaclyn A. Bryk 9

200 Capitol Street

Charleston, West Virginia 25338 10

(304) 345-0200

11

On behalf of the Defendant: 12

BARKAN & ROBON LTD.: 13

Marvin A. Robon

1701 Woodlands Drive 14

Maumee, Ohio 43537

(419) 897-6500 15

16

and

17

DiTRAPANO, BARRETT & DiPIERO, PLLC:

Sean P. McGinley (via telephone) 18

604 Virginia Street, East


(304) 342-0133

20

ALSO PRESENT: 21

Frank Mannino, Videographer 22

Alexander Macia, Vice President for

Legal Affairs and General Counsel, 23

West Virginia University

24

3

I N D E X 1

EXAMINATION 2

Witness Name Page Line

MICHAEL L. BROWN 3

Examination By Mr. Robert P. Fitzsimmons 13 11

Examination By Mr. Robon ............... 503 4 4

Re-Examination By Mr. Robert P. ........ 532 12

Fitzsimmons 5

EXHIBITS 6

Exhibit Description Page Line

EX 1 Letter - Brown to Pastilong - .. 250 17 7

2-15-06

EX 2 Letter - Brown to Dorer - ...... 262 19 8

3-28-06

EX 3 E-mail - Brown to tom.dorer - .. 266 6 9

4-3-06

EX 4 E-mail - [email protected] to .. 272 4 10

[email protected]

EX 7 Letter - Brown to Dorer - ...... 280 13 11

5-22-06

EX 8 Letter - Dorer to Brown - 6-6-06 299 6 12

EX 11 Letter - Dorer to Brown - ...... 303 1

8-15-06 13

EX 12 E-mail - Parsons to ............ 308 19

[email protected] - 12-8-06 14

EX 13 Term Sheet - 12-8-06 ........... 312 16

EX 14 Letter - Brown to Pastilong - .. 314 14 15

2-28-07

EX 17 Letter - Dorer to Brown - ...... 324 23 16

5-17-07


Craig [email protected]


Craig [email protected]

EX 24 Memo - Walker to Brown - 7-27-07 335 23 19

EX 25 E-mail - lbfound75 to Craig .... 344 15

Walker @mail.wvu.edu - 7-27-07 20

EX 26 E-mail - Walker to Brown - ..... 347 5

8-1-07 21

EX 27 E-mail - [email protected] to .. 355 7

Craig Walker@ mail.wvu.edu - 22

8-6-07

EX 29 E-mail - Walker to ............. 357 20 23

[email protected]

EX 30 E-mail - Wilcox to Walker - .... 362 1924

4

EX 31 E-mail - Wilcox to Walker - .... 366 9 1

8-23-07

EX 32 E-mail - Wilcox to ............. 367 19 2

[email protected]

3

EX 33 E-mail - Wilcox to Garrison - .. 370 22

8-24-07 4

EX 35 E-mail - From: Mike Wilcox - ... 374 12

8-27-07 5

EX 40 E-mail - [email protected] to .. 419 5

Craig Walker @mail.wvu.edu 6

EX 42 E-mail - Mike Wilcox to Craig .. 427 2

Walker - 11-18-07 7

EX 43 E-mail - Mike Wilcox to Craig .. 429 22

Walker - 11-24-07 8

EX 44 (Not provided to reporter) ..... 432 7

EX 46 (Not provided to reporter) ..... 433 7 9



EX 53 Employment Agreement ........... 121 12

EX 54 First Amendment to the ......... 122 21 11

Employment Agreement for Richard

Rodriguez 12

EX 55 Copy of business card .......... 379 14

EX 56 E-mail - Brown to Jenkromp - ... 381 6 13

11-15-01

EX 57 Second Amendment to teh ........ 126 14 14

Employment Agreement for Richard

Rodriguez 15

EX 57 Text ........................... 388 24





EX 62 Letter with handwriting - Dorer 533 18 18

to Brown - 4-24-07

19

OBJECTIONS

By Page Line 20

Mr. Robert P. Fitzsimmons ................. 503 21

Mr. Robert P. Fitzsimmons ................. 509 6 21





Mr. Robon ................................. 14 6

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5

Mr. Robon ................................. 16 7 1

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Mr. Robon ................................. 107 3 1

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Mr. Robon ................................. 186 324

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Mr. Robon ................................. 187 13 1

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Mr. Robon ................................. 247 1424

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Mr. Robon ................................. 260 13 1

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Mr. Robon ................................. 382 624

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Mr. Wakefield ............................. 521 2 12

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Mr. Wakefield ............................. 548 16

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WITNESS INSTRUCTIONS NOT TO ANSWER

Page Line 16

479 10

482 10 17

18

- - -

19

20

21

22

23

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11

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on 1

the record. This videotape deposition is 2

taken of Michael Brown located at 1435 3

East Mall Drive in Holland, Ohio. 4

Today's date is May 9th, 2008. 5

The time is now 9:05 a.m. 6

This is in the matter of West 7

Virginia University Board of Governors 8

versus Rodriguez, Case No. 07-C-851. 9

This matter is being held before the 10

Honorable Robert B. Stone in Monongalia 11

County Circuit Court in West Virginia. 12

My name is Frank Mannino, legal 13

videographer for Collins Reporting 14

Services, Inc. 15

Madam Court Reporter, would you 16

please swear in the witness. 17

MR. ROBON: No. Do the pan 18

first, please. 19

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counsel, 20

would you please introduce yourselves. 21

MR. MACIA: I'm Alex Macia with 22

West Virginia University. 23

MS. BRYK: Jaclyn Bryk appearing 24

12

for West Virginia University. 1

MR. ROBERT J. FITZSIMMONS: 2

Robert J. Fitzsimmons on behalf of West 3

Virginia University. 4

MR. WAKEFIELD: Jeff Wakefield 5

representing West Virginia University. 6

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Bob 7

Fitzsimmons representing West Virginia 8

University. 9

MR. BROWN: Michael L. Brown, 10

the witness. 11

MR. ROBON: Good morning. 12

Marvin A. Robon from Barkan & Robon in 13

Maumee, Ohio. We represent 14

Coach Rodriguez in the defense of the 15

lawsuit involving West Virginia 16

University. 17

THE COURT REPORTER: Casey 18

Schreiner. 19

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Madam Court 20

Reporter, would you please swear in the 21

witness. 22

MICHAEL L. BROWN, 23

a Witness herein, called by the Plaintiffs as if upon 24

13

Examination, was by me first duly sworn, as 1

hereinafter certified, deposed and said as follows: 2

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you. 3

Please continue. 4

MR. ROBON: Do you have your 5

mike on? 6

THE WITNESS: Do I need to put 7

this on? 8

MR. ROBON: Yes, you do. Up on 9

your lapel would probably work better. 10

EXAMINATION 11

BY MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: 12

Q. Mr. Brown, tell me what business 13

relationships you have with Rich Rodriguez, today, as 14

of today. 15

A. Can you define -- can you define what 16

business relationships are? 17

Q. You don't know what the term "business 18

relationships" mean? 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. Okay. Go ahead and answer the question, 21

then. 22

A. I'm his agent representing him in his 23

contract negotiations, and providing advice and 24

14

consultation in regards to his career and his current 1

position at University of Michigan. 2

Q. All right. Any other business 3

relationships you have, including investment 4

relationships as partners in investments? 5

MR. ROBON: Objection. But you 6

can answer. 7

THE WITNESS: Coach Rodriguez, 8

along with some other people are member 9

of an LLC -- actually three different 10

LLCs in regards to real estate 11

development, and currently I am the 12

manager of those LLCs. 13


Q. All right. Do they have different names, 15

those three particular LLCs? 16

MR. ROBON: Objection. 17

You can answer. 18


Q. You have to answer unless he directs you 20

not to answer. 21

A. Okay. Yes, there's three LLCs. One is 22

Palmetto State Enterprises. 23

Q. Palmetto State --24

15

A. State Enterprises. 1

Q. Okay. 2

A. The Legends of Tuscaloosa, LLC. 3

Q. The Legends Tuscaloosa -- 4

A. The Legends of Tuscaloosa, LLC. 5

Q. Okay. 6

A. And the Legends of Blacksburg, LLC. 7

Q. What is your position with the LLCs? 8

MR. ROBON: Objection. Asked 9

and answered. He indicated he was the 10

manager. 11


Q. I'm sorry. Did you hear his statement? 13

A. Say that again. 14

Q. You can answer the question. 15

A. I'm -- I'm currently the manager of the 16

LLCs. 17

Q. Each one of the three? 18

A. Each one of the three separate LLCs. One 19

is in South Carolina; one is in Alabama; and one is in 20

Black -- is in Virginia. 21

Q. Okay. Are you an investor also, a member 22

of the LLC? 23

A. I'm not an investor.24

16

Q. In any one of the three? 1

A. Not in any one of the three. 2

Q. Have you been in the past? 3

A. No. 4

Q. All right. What do you do as the manager 5

for those businesses? 6


You can answer. 8

THE WITNESS: Handle the 9

day-to-day business of coordinating in 10

each of the three locations with, for 11

example, the realtors, each one, on the 12

status of the sales. 13

I work with the banker and 14

communicate with the banker on the status 15

of loans on each of the three. And 16

that's basically just day-to-day real 17

estate development/property management. 18


Q. Do you have offices at the three 20

locations as a manager? 21

A. No, I work out of my home in Atlanta. 22

Q. What's the address of your home? 23

A. 1207 --24

17

MR. ROBON: Shhh. I would 1

rather do that off the record, not put it 2

in a transcript. I don't want people 3

picketing his house. We'll give it to 4

you off the record. 5

MR. WAKEFIELD: Well, let me -- 6

it's listed in a number of exhibits in 7

terms of correspondence. 8

THE WITNESS: That's fine. 9

1207 Oglethorpe Avenue North 10

East, Atlanta, Georgia, 30319. 11


Q. Okay. So you have a -- you operate as a 13

manager for those three LLCs principally out of your 14

home? 15

A. That's correct. 16

Q. Do those three LLCs have actual offices, 17

business offices? 18

A. No. 19

Q. These are real estate development 20

companies, are they? You build homes and things? 21

A. We do condo developments. 22

Q. In all three of the LLCs? 23

A. All three of the LLCs, a single condo 24

18

development for each one of the LLCs. 1

Q. Okay. How long have you actually been 2

the manager of the oldest LLC of the three? 3

A. I did not become manager until September 4

of '07. 5

Q. Who hired you? 6


You can answer. 8

(Pause.) 9

THE WITNESS: I was hired by 10

three people: Ron West at Clemson 11

University, who is one of the principals 12

in the LLC; Coach Rodriguez; and there 13

was -- there is an attorney involved in 14

handling matters for the LLC that was 15

also involved in my hiring, Chris Olson 16

out of Clemson, South Carolina. 17


Q. Chris Olson? 19

A. Yeah. 20

Q. Is he the attorney for the three LLCs? 21

A. He is the attorney for the LLCs, yes, out 22

of Clemson, South Carolina. 23

Q. Are the three of those individuals, 24

19

Mr. West, Mr. Rodriguez, and Mr. Olson, are they also 1

members of the LLC? 2


You can answer. 4

THE WITNESS: The only two 5

members are Ron West and 6

Rich Rodriguez. 7


Q. Is Mr. west in the coaching business? 9

A. Yes, he is. 10

Q. At Clemson? 11

A. At Clemson. 12

Q. How much time do you spend in a week's 13

time with those three LLCs as the manager? 14


You can answer. 16

THE WITNESS: It varies. I can 17

go from -- 18


Q. Just on the average. 20

A. On the average, I spend about 60 hours a 21

month on the LLCs. 22

Q. Okay. 23

A. Since September of '07.24

20

Q. Okay. So the two business relationships 1

that you've identified with Coach Rodriguez are the 2

three LLCs in your capacity as the manager of those 3

three, and you also indicated, I think, you're his 4

manager in contract negotiations? 5

A. That's part of my duties. 6

Q. Is there some other duties besides 7

contract negotiations and representing him as a coach? 8

A. Yes. 9

Q. What else do you do? 10

A. What I do as part of my duty in 11

representing Coach, I keep up to speed on data and 12

that on the coaching industry as far as contract data, 13

as far as marketing rights, how different schools are 14

using the Internet sites. 15

I work on behalf of Coach Rodriquez, for 16

example, right now at Michigan, in deciding how the TV 17

shows are going to be done, how the radio shows are 18

going to be done; how in the organization of his 19

camps, you know, whether -- you know, now -- whether, 20

you know, at Michigan he runs the camps under his sole 21

proprietorship. So I work with him on the number of 22

camps he's going to have, what the revenue projections 23

are going to be, what the payout may be for the 24

21

assistant coaches. So it's all-encompassing. 1

Q. Okay. I understood that you had that 2

relationship as an agent and there was duties that 3

you're telling us about. 4

I think my question is a little bit more 5

specific about specific business relationships other 6

than as the agent in these management positions that 7

you have with LLCs that he is an investor in. Are 8

there any other business relationships that you have 9

with Coach Rodriguez? 10

A. No. 11

Q. All right. You said you are an agent. 12

Do you have some license that -- to practice as an 13

agent in the state of Michigan, presently? 14

A. If you represent players, if you 15

represent NFL players, you have to be certified by the 16

NFLPA, and then you also -- different states have 17

different regulations as far as certification and 18

registration. 19

But when you're representing coaches, 20

just coaches only, there is no registration or 21

anything required. 22

Q. So the answer is no, you don't need a 23

license to do what you do so far as an agent in the 24

22

contract part of Mr. Rodriguez's -- 1

A. In -- in representing coaches, you do not 2

need a -- you do not need a -- any national type or 3

state type registration. 4

Q. All right. There is a licensing out of 5

South Carolina for some type of sports agent. Do you 6

have some type of license in South Carolina? 7

A. I'm not aware of that. 8

Q. Have you ever applied for any type of 9

sports licensing to do any type of representation? 10

A. Yes, I have. 11

Q. Okay. Where have you applied? 12

A. Previously Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and 13

South Carolina. 14

Q. It's your understanding you don't need a 15

license to hold yourself out as an agent for a coach, 16

football coach, in West Virginia? 17


Q. Those other states, do they have State 19

licensing requirements that you have to sign up or 20

file some application to represent sports figures 21

other than players? 22

A. No, not that I'm aware of. 23

Q. All right. So those licenses you said 24

23

you would have applied for, what type of licenses are 1

those? 2

A. Say it again. 3

Q. Yeah. The licenses in the three or four 4

states that you identified, what type of license would 5

you be applying for? 6

A. Different states, depending if you are 7

representing a player -- 8

Q. Uh-huh. 9

A. -- if you want to represent NFL players 10

that are going to schools in those states that at some 11

point in time are going to graduate and have a chance 12

to play in the NFL, if you want to become their agent 13

and represent them upon the end of their college 14

eligibility, you have to be certified, and each state 15

has different regulations regarding agent 16

certification and registration. 17

Q. Does the NFL Players Association require 18

some type of license or certification before you can 19

represent a player that's going to an NFL team? 20

A. They do. 21

Q. All right. And is there a two-day test 22

that's required for that? 23

A. They do.24

24

Q. That's a yes? 1

A. Yes. 2

Q. It's a two-day test. They just recently 3

had the test here this week, did they not? 4

A. I'm not aware of it. 5

Q. Did you sit for that test? 6

A. No. 7

Q. Have you ever sat for that test? 8

A. I did. 9

Q. How many times? 10

A. Just once. 11

Q. And how did you do with it? 12

A. Passed it. 13

Q. Did you become a licensed agent with the 14

NFL then at that time? 15

A. I did. 16

Q. All right. Did you maintain your 17

license. 18

A. I did until October of 2006. 19

Q. And was there a reason that you let it 20

lapse or you didn't reapply for it? 21

A. Yes. 22

Q. What was that reason? 23

A. I had started -- my coaching clientele 24

25

had grown to a point where I considered it a conflict 1

of interest to be involved in any type of player 2

representation and that and also representing coaches. 3

So -- and I had not been actively involved for a while 4

in recruiting and representing players. So I decided 5

the best thing to do was just go ahead and resign my 6

position as NFL -- an agent representing players. 7

Q. So did you resign your position or just 8

not take your application and -- 9

A. No. I sent a letter of resignation into 10

the NFLPA. Yeah. 11

Q. Did you represent any players at that 12

time, at all? 13

A. At the time, I believe I was on one -- I 14

was on one standard representation agreement at that 15

time. 16

Q. Who was that? 17

A. With Roger McIntosh, a linebacker with 18

the Washington Redskins. 19

Q. Okay. So you've been -- was that before 20

or after you began representing Mr. Rodriguez? 21

A. That I represented Roger -- 22

MR. ROBON: If you know. 23

THE WITNESS: Represented Roger 24

26

McIntosh. 1

MR. ROBON: If you don't 2

recall -- 3

THE WITNESS: It was after I 4

started representing Coach Rodriguez. 5


Q. And was Roger McIntosh, was he already in 7

the NFL at that time, or was he coming out of school 8

to go to the NFL? 9

A. He was coming out of school. Let's see. 10

Last year was his second year so -- 11

Q. He would just be graduating? 12

A. So he played '07, '06, so he came out in 13

the spring of '06. 14

Q. What school is he from? 15

A. University of Miami. 16

Q. And did you then resign as his agent or 17

did he pick up somebody else or how did that happen? 18

A. On the agent agreement, there were my 19

name and then also Eric Metz, and Eric just continued 20

to handle his duties full time. 21

Q. Mr. Metz is somebody that's affiliated 22

with a company called LMM? 23

A. That's correct.24

27

Q. And you're affiliated with them also? 1

A. I work as a consultant/contractor type 2

with them. 3

Q. When you say you're a 4

consultant/contractor with them, do you have a written 5

consulting agreement with LMM? 6

A. No, we have -- 7

MR. ROBON: Objection. Give me 8

a chance to always object. 9

You can answer that. 10

THE WITNESS: No. We work off 11

of a verbal agreement. 12


Q. So you've never had a written agreement 14

with LMM as a consultant? 15

A. Nope. 16

Q. What do you consult with LMM, Mr. Metz 17

and those folks, they call you up and ask you for your 18

advice? 19

A. Today? 20

Q. Since you've been a consultant under this 21

verbal agreement that you have with this agency. 22

A. What -- what the main role that I work 23

with them in is that we have together an informal 24

28

organization where between myself and Eric Metz, we 1

represent a group of coaches. And so basically Eric 2

and I work together representing various NFL and 3

college coaches. 4

Q. All right. Have you ever been an 5

employee of LMM? 6

A. No. 7

Q. Do you have an office within their 8

offices, which I think their main office is out in 9

Arizona? 10

A. In Arizona. When I am in Arizona -- I 11

don't have a permanent office there -- but I will go 12

in and I will pick out an office and work out of it 13

during the days that I may be out there doing work. 14

Q. Borrow space, basically? 15

A. Yes. 16

Q. You go out there, they let you use their 17

conference room or some offices and -- 18

A. Just basically use a -- use a desk and be 19

able to hook my laptop up, do some stuff. 20

Q. I mean, is there any office with your 21

name on it that we can walk down the hall and it would 22

say "Mike Brown"? 23

A. No.24

29

Q. And you receive no salary or benefits 1

through LMM also; is that correct? 2

A. The only salary, the only compensation I 3

receive is off of fees paid through common coaches 4

that Eric and I represent. 5

Q. All right. Were those coaches that you 6

basically represented and you brought the firm in to 7

help -- also help manage some of their contractual 8

issues? 9

A. Repeat the question. 10

Q. Yes. Would you go, like Coach Rodriguez, 11

would you represent him, and then you would call 12

Mr. Metz or one of the other folks out there to see if 13

their agency could come in and help? 14

A. No. We work together in identifying and 15

retaining clients. And just as in probably your law 16

firm, certain people take certain leads on clients 17

that they have relationships with. 18

So in the coaching area, Eric and I would 19

work together. I handle some guys exclusively myself; 20

if I need or think I need some help, I'll give him a 21

ring, and vice versa. Eric represents some guys that 22

he takes the lead on that I've never talked to. 23

Q. And so Mr. Metz calls you in, Mike Brown, 24

30

to come in on a representation to serve as the agent, 1

co-agent on other coaches that he has pretty much been 2

asked to represent; is that what you're saying? 3

A. No. In some cases we don't even go to 4

that extent. 5

Q. No, I understand that. But does Mr. Metz 6

call you and say, Hey, I got Coach Tressel and we need 7

you to come in, Mike, and help with this after that's 8

all set up? 9

MR. ROBON: You mean on occasion 10

has he done that is what you're saying? 11

THE WITNESS: Yeah. Yeah, on 12

occasion Eric's called me in regards to 13

one of his clients and said, Hey, he's 14

interested in this job, do you have any 15

contacts there, can you help get his name 16

in front of them, for example. 17

You know, he would call me in 18

regards to, you know, asking me questions 19

about up-to-date college coach contract 20

data, what some of the most recent 21

industry standards and things that are 22

going on if he was involved in some type 23

of college contract negotiation, or an 24

31

issue had come up with one of the clients 1

that he mainly handles. 2


Q. How do you get paid when you represent 4

one of these joint arrangements with a coach? 5


You can answer. 7

THE WITNESS: Basically, Eric 8

and I sit down and we have a gentleman's 9

agreement as to -- in regards to, you 10

know, based on split of work, who's doing 11

most of the work, that kind of thing, 12

whether he or myself are going to, you 13

know, keep the full fee or whether we're 14

going to split it. 15


Q. Do you charge hourly? 17

A. No. 18

Q. Is it a percentage of, what, the gross 19

value of the contract or how do you arrange that? 20


You can answer. 22

THE WITNESS: It's a percentage 23

of the total guaranteed annual income. 24

32


Q. Okay. And what is the general percentage 2

which you charge? 3



Q. I'm sure there's a range in different 6

fees for different individuals? 7

MR. ROBON: If you're asking 8

generally, I'll let him answer. If 9

you're asking specifically about 10

Rodriguez, I'll instruct him not to 11

answer. 12

MR. WAKEFIELD: On what basis? 13

MR. ROBON: On the basis that 14

it's confidential information. 15

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: I 16

don't know that we have such a privilege 17

if it's confidential information -- 18

MR. ROBON: It's irrelevant. 19

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: -- 20

certain privileges. 21

MR. ROBON: You can give a 22

range. 23

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: If 24

33

you would have listened, Mr. Robon, I 1

asked generally, what would be the 2

general range. 3

MR. ROBON: Yes. 4


Q. Go ahead, Mr. Brown, you can answer. 6

A. 2 percent to 3 percent. 7

Q. That's the general market within your 8

business that you handle? 9

A. We've heard of some -- or I have heard of 10

some other agents charging a little bit more. 11

Q. Okay. But that's the general standard 12

fee pretty much in the business itself? 13

A. Again, I can't say that, just because I 14

don't know all of the coaches out there, what their 15

individual agreements are. I do know some agents 16

charge as high as 4 to 5 percent. 17

Q. 45? 18

A. No, 4 to 5. 19

Q. 4 to 5 percent? 20

A. Yeah. 21

Q. Is that the fees for coaches, or is that 22

also the fees for some professional players going to 23

some professional team, in football or basketball?24

34

A. Each professional league has -- their 1

players' association sets different limits as to what 2

the agents can charge. 3

For example, in the NFL the maximum 4

percentage that an agent can charge a player is 3 5

percent. I believe in basketball and baseball it's 6

higher than that. I'm not sure of the exact number, 7

but it could be as high as 5. I know it's higher than 8

what the NFL charges. 9

Q. So if I understand, if you're 10

representing a football player that's going to go to 11

the NFL or a basketball player to the NBA or major 12

league baseball player, there are regulatory bodies 13

that regulate fees and things that agents can and 14

cannot do; is that a fair statement? 15


Q. But within your profession, there's no 17

regulatory body overseeing the coaches' portion of 18

what you do? 19


Q. Is it a fair statement that there is no 21

state organization that you're aware of that in any 22

way regulates the charging of fees or the conduct of 23

agents that represent solely and exclusively football 24

35

coaches in this country? 1

A. To my knowledge, yes. 2

Q. What other coaches do you personally 3

represent besides Mr. Rodriguez? 4


You can answer. 6

THE WITNESS: I can give you a 7

sampling. There are some coaches that 8

have asked that their -- that our 9

relationship be kept confidential and 10

that, but I'll give you a sampling of 11

other coaches. 12

Dabo Sweeney, the assistant head 13

coach at Clemson University. 14


Q. Assistant head coach? 16

A. Yes. 17

Q. My question was What head coaches, I 18

thought. 19

A. Oh, what head coaches. 20

Q. Yes, sir, yeah. What head coaches do you 21

represent? 22

A. Ken Whisenhut, the coach of the Arizona 23

Cardinals. Eric and I co-represent him.24

36

Q. Mr. Metz and you? 1


Q. Mr. Metz is an attorney? 3

A. No, he's not. 4

Q. He's not an attorney. Is he an NFL 5

player rep? 6

A. Yes, he's a certified NFL agent. 7

Q. Okay. 8

A. Eric and I have -- are co-agents for Mike 9

Mularkey when he was the head coach of the Buffalo 10

Bills. 11

Q. He's not a head coach now? 12

A. No, he's not. He's the offensive 13

coordinator for the Atlanta Falcons. 14

Q. Okay. My question was what head coaches 15

do you represent? 16

A. Now? 17

Q. Presently, yes, sir, besides 18

Mr. Rodriguez. 19

A. Ken Whisenhut would be the only other 20

coach. 21

MR. ROBON: Where is he the 22

coach? 23

THE WITNESS: Arizona Cardinals 24

37

in Phoenix, Arizona. 1


Q. What head college Division I coaches have 3

you represented besides Coach Rodriguez in the past? 4

A. Coach Rodriguez is the only one. 5

Q. Okay. So are there other head 6

professional coaches that you've represented in the 7

past besides Whisenhut? 8

A. Other past NFL coaches, head coaches? 9

Q. That was the question. 10

A. Yes, Mike Mularkey. 11

Q. When he was with the Bills? 12

A. With the Buffalo Bills. 13

Q. When was he that? 14

A. Let's go back. '07, '06 -- 2004 and 15

2005. 16

Q. Did he exit his position as head coach in 17

2005? 18

A. At the end of the 2005 season would have 19

been January of 2006. 20

Q. And he has not reentered coaching or -- 21

A. No, he left from there and coached the 22

last two years with the Miami Dolphins. 23

Q. Did you represent him with the Dolphins?24

38

A. Yes. We rep -- Eric and I represented 1

him when he took the position with the Dolphins. 2

Q. All right. So Mularkey was represented 3

by both you and Mr. Metz from this LMM firm? 4


Q. And Whisenhut also had LMM representing 6

him, Mr. Metz? 7

A. And myself. 8

Q. And yourself. 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. Is that right? 11


Q. Now, there are assistant coaches that you 13

represent? 14

A. Yes. 15

Q. Do you represent Calvin Magee today? 16

A. Yes. 17

Q. How long have you represented Mr. Magee? 18

A. Since August of '07. 19

Q. Do you have a written contract with 20

Mr. Magee? 21


You can answer. 23

THE WITNESS: No, we work off of 24

39

a verbal agreement. 1


Q. Your answer was no? 3

A. No, I do not have one. 4

Q. And do you have a written agreement with 5

Mr. Rodriguez? 6


You can answer. 8

THE WITNESS: No. 9


Q. Have you ever had a written agreement 11

with Mr. Rodriguez? 12

A. No. 13

Q. Did you have written agreements with 14

Coach Whisenhut, you and/or Mr. Metz? 15

A. I do not know -- I can't answer that. I 16

don't know if Eric -- Eric's the lead on that. I 17

don't know if Eric's ever gotten an agreement with 18

Ken. 19

Q. And how about Mr. Mularkey? 20

A. I can't recall. 21

Q. If there are contracts with these 22

gentlemen, is that something you would keep in your 23

office also, a copy of those things, as to what duties 24

40

and responsibilities you have between the agent and 1

the actual coach? 2

A. Pardon me? 3

Q. Is that something that you would have in 4

your office and keep in your office, a copy of the 5

contract, if there was such a contract, with Whisenhut 6

and Mularkey? 7

A. Those would be -- I would not probably 8

keep them, but Eric would. 9

Q. Okay. My question was do you. 10

A. No. 11

Q. In your -- you say you have a verbal 12

contract with Mr. Rodriguez? 13


Q. And did that start in 2006? 15

A. 2005. 16

Q. 2005? 17

A. In the summer. 18

Q. Do you recall when that was? 19


MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Mr. 21

Robon, if somebody doesn't know, they 22

can't answer, can they? 23

MR. ROBON: Well, I don't want 24

41

him to guess. That's what I -- I want 1

you to -- 2

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Well, 3

again, if you wanted to prep the witness 4

ahead of time, you should have done that. 5

You know, this is not the time to be 6

prepping witnesses during a deposition. 7

MR. ROBON: I'm not prepping, 8

I'm suggesting if you know the exact time 9

tell him; if you don't, tell him. 10

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: 11

That's what's wrong. You can't suggest 12

answers, exactly what you said. 13

If you have an objection, I 14

would really appreciate you just putting 15

it on the record, rather than suggesting 16

testimony. 17

THE WITNESS: So what's the 18

question again? 19


Q. Do you recall the date when you began 21

this verbal agreement with Mr. Rodriguez in 2005, the 22

summer of 2005? 23

A. Not the exact date.24

42

Q. Where were you at that time? 1

A. Visiting Coach in his office. 2

Q. You went down to his office in 3

Morgantown? 4


Q. Okay. Did you know Mr. Rodriguez before 6

that? 7

A. Yes, I did. 8

Q. By the way, does -- are there any other 9

of these, what do you call, coaching agents -- is that 10

what you are? 11

A. Uh-huh. 12

Q. A coaching agent. Are there any other 13

coaching agents that represent Mr. Rodriguez today? 14

A. Not to my knowledge. 15

Q. Including Mr. Metz? 16

A. Pardon me? 17

Q. Including Mr. Metz? Does he not 18

represent Coach Rodriguez as a coaching agent today? 19

A. Eric -- define "represent." 20

Q. Well, if you as a sports agent don't know 21

what that word means, I'll just pass on it. 22

Are you telling us, the jury, that you 23

don't understand what the word "represent" means so 24

43

far as agents are concerned? 1

A. No. I was -- does it go back to the 2

date -- 3

Q. My question was do you know what the term 4

"represent" means? 5

A. I do. 6

Q. Okay. Go ahead and answer the question 7

then. 8

A. Can you repeat it? 9

Q. Yes. Does Mr. Metz represent 10

Coach Rodriguez as one of these coaching agents? 11

A. Yes, he does. 12

Q. Today? 13

A. Yes. 14

Q. Okay. Is there some separate agreement 15

that he has with Mr. Rodriguez? 16

A. No. 17

Q. When did he come into the picture of 18

representing Mr. Rodriguez? 19

A. When -- in 2005, when I began acting as a 20

coach's agent. 21

Q. Okay. Is that when you started this 22

business of being a coaching agent, in 2005? 23

A. Actually -- let's go back. It was in the 24

44

spring of 2003. 1

Q. Spring of 2003, is that when you struck 2

up an arrangement with Coach Mularkey? 3

A. No. That was when Eric and I, Eric Metz 4

and I, together decided that we were going to start 5

to -- attempt to represent coaches. 6

Q. Okay. Did you go to Mr. Metz and say, 7

I'm going to go out and try to start a division for 8

actual coaches? 9


Q. Prior to the present time, has Mr. Metz 11

also been a coaching agent for Mr. Rodriguez? 12

A. He -- yes, he has. 13

Q. Okay. And did that start in August of -- 14

what did you say, August of -- when did you start 15

representing Mr. Rodriguez? 16

A. In the summer of 2005. I can't remember 17

the -- 18

Q. 2005? 19

A. I can't remember the exact date. 20

Q. Okay. Did Mr. Metz also meet and strike 21

some agreement to be a coaching agent for 22

Mr. Rodriguez at that same time? 23

A. I can't recall.24

45

Q. So you're telling us this relationship 1

with Mr. Rodriguez, who's obviously the major -- 2

presently the sole, exclusive Division I football 3

coach that you represent in your business, that you 4

can't remember whether Mr. Metz also was on board as a 5

coaching agent when you first started in the summer of 6

2005; is that true? 7

A. No, it's not. 8

Q. Okay. You do know? 9

A. Yeah -- well, you asked the question, was 10

he there at that exact first meeting. 11

Q. Was he a coaching agent also of 12

Mr. Rodriguez at the same time you became his agent? 13

A. Yes. The answer is yes. 14

Q. All right. Was he on the phone or 15

something when you struck this deal? 16

A. At some point in time, I can't remember 17

whether it was that meeting or another meeting soon 18

thereafter, Eric and I met with Coach Rodriguez in 19

Coach's office. 20

Q. Did you have some formal arrangement with 21

LMM at that time? 22

A. No. 23

Q. Had you -- had you been a part of, in any 24

46

way, LMM prior to Coach Rodriguez becoming your client 1

in the summer of 2005? 2

A. I had been -- 3

MR. ROBON: I'm going to object 4

to the use of the word "client." I think 5

clients -- it gets used by beauty salons. 6

I think clients are people that lawyers 7

represent. Customers are other people. 8


SoRodriguez is a customer? 10

MR. ROBON: Yeah. 11

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Okay. 12

That's fine. Let's refer to 13

Mr. Rodriguez, that's fine, and say he's 14

a customer of your services. 15

THE WITNESS: So can you repeat 16

the question? 17


Q. In 2005, was Mr. Metz on the phone in 19

this meeting which you had with Rodriguez when the 20

deal was cut that he would become your customer? 21

A. No. 22

Q. Were you affiliated in any way with LMM 23

as of the summer of 2005 at that time when you struck 24

47

this deal with Rodriguez? 1

A. I was affiliated him as a 2

consultant/contractor type role. 3

Q. Were there multiple contractors? Could I 4

call up and say, Hey, I got a coach I'd like you guys 5

to handle also with me and be a consultant? Can 6

anybody pretty much do that, assuming they like you? 7

A. Yeah. LMM has some other similar 8

relationships with other people in that manner. 9

Q. But you were the one that kind of landed 10

Rodriguez as the customer; is that right? 11

A. Yes. 12

Q. I just kind of want to understand how you 13

get to this position of becoming -- are you a seller, 14

agency seller, then, if he's a customer? What do you 15

call yourselves? What do you call your business? 16

A. Coaching representation. 17

Q. Coaching representation, and you would be 18

the representer, is that what you call it? 19

A. Yeah, I would the representative of the 20

coach. 21

Q. Okay. Let's say that I have a child, and 22

we want to -- we want to become somebody like a 23

coaching representative. Does it require any 24

48

education? 1

A. I can't determine what a potential client 2

would determine as what his requirements or check list 3

would be to have a representative. 4

Q. Well, we understand that they're going to 5

look and they have to like you, but so far as 6

qualifications educationally, you don't even have to 7

have a high school education; is that true? 8


You can answer. 10


Q. As far as you understand. 12

A. As far as I understand. 13

Q. You have to have -- you don't need any 14

education, whatsoever, or training in law; is that 15

right? 16


Q. You don't need any training or education 18

in labor-management; is that right? 19


Q. You absolutely -- to become what you are, 21

you need absolutely zero educational qualifications; 22

is that a true statement? 23


49

to the phraseology. 1

You can answer if you understand 2

the question. 3


Q. You have to answer. 5


Q. You need zero educational qualifications 7

to hold yourself out as what you do? 8

A. No. You have to be educated, you have to 9

be smart, but as far as formal qualifications -- 10

Q. That's what I'm talking about. Formal 11

qualifications, you need absolutely zilch so far as 12

what's required to become what you hold yourself out 13

as; is that true? 14

A. I would look at it what is the client or 15

person you're representing, it's each individual 16

person making up their decision as to what they look 17

for in qualifications and education and experience in 18

choosing representation. 19

Q. Mr. Brown, answer the question. You 20

don't need any formal education whatsoever or training 21

to become a -- what you hold yourself out as, a 22

Division I coach representative; is that true? 23


50

You can answer. 1

THE WITNESS: Yes. I could say 2

that there could be somebody who could 3

choose a representation -- representative 4

that falls into that category. 5


Q. Right. Now, let's talk a little bit 7

about your education. What's the last formal grade of 8

education you have? 9

A. Last formal grade? 10

Q. That was the question, yes, sir. 11

A. I graduated from -- in 1985 I graduated 12

from the Defense Systems Management College at Fort 13

Belvoir. 14

Q. Defense Systems -- 15

A. Defense Systems Management College. 16

Q. What is that? 17

A. It's -- I was an employee of the 18

Department of Defense, and it's a full-time school 19

that you go to to obtain a postgraduate degree in 20

program management, with an emphasis on Department of 21

Defense military systems. 22

Q. So you have a degree in program 23

management?24

51

A. A graduate degree in program management 1

from the Defense Systems Management College, 1985. 2

Q. You say a graduate degree. Is that a 3

master's? 4

A. It's -- it's not a formal master's. It's 5

a special school and qualification if you were working 6

inside the Department of Defense. 7

Q. Okay. You don't have any postcollege 8

master's degree; is that correct? 9


Q. You have no postcollege Ph.D. degree; is 11

that correct? 12


Q. So what's your diploma say from the 14

Defense Systems College Department of Defense as a 15

program manager? 16

A. I can't recall. I haven't seen the 17

diploma in years. 18

Q. Did you go to -- attend college? 19

A. I did. 20

Q. Where did you attend? 21

A. Clemson University. 22

Q. And what year did you graduate from 23

Clemson?24

52

A. December of 1979. 1

Q. And you have a Bachelor of Arts degree 2

or -- 3

A. Bachelor of Science in mechanical 4

engineering. 5

Q. Did you do a co-op? 6

A. No. 7

Q. Have you ever been licensed as a 8

mechanical engineer in any state? 9

A. No. 10

Q. Have you ever sat for the test as a 11

mechanical engineer in any state? 12

A. No. 13

Q. Are you qualified, do you have enough 14

educational credentials to even sit for mechanical 15

engineering licensing in any state? 16

A. I can't answer that, because I haven't -- 17

Q. You haven't even taken the test or 18

applied to take it? 19

A. I've not taken it. 20

Q. You understand it's a two-part test in 21

order to become licensed as an engineer, mechanical 22

engineer? 23

A. In any of my positions after graduating 24

53

from college, none of the jobs required that I get -- 1

become a licensed mechanical engineer. 2

Q. Do you have any formal education in law? 3

A. No. 4

Q. Have you ever practiced mechanical 5

engineering for a business or a living? 6

A. Yes. 7

Q. Okay. How long did you spend doing that? 8

A. From 1981 to 1999, full-time. 9

Q. Okay. On a full-time basis, you were 10

held out as a mechanical engineer? 11

A. I had different job descriptions and 12

titles that did include mechanical engineering. 13

Q. Okay. During that period, were you held 14

out as a mechanical engineer at any time in that 15

18-year period, 1981 to 1999? 16

A. I was held out as an engineer. 17

Q. Just an engineer? 18

A. Yes. 19

Q. Who did you work for? 20

A. Let me see here. American Systems 21

Corporation. 22

Q. Okay. 23

A. The Department of Defense.24

54

Q. Were you in the military? 1

A. No, I was not. Atlantic Research 2

Corporation, United Technologies, Touchstone Research 3

Corporation. 4

MR. ROBON: How do you spell 5

that? 6

THE WITNESS: T-o-u-c-h-s-t-o-n-e 7

Research Corporation. 8


Q. Is that located in Wheeling? 10

A. That's correct. At Grimes Aerospace and 11

Honeywell. 12

Q. Is Honeywell in Indiana? 13

A. No, Honeywell is -- pardon me again. 14

Q. Is Honeywell in Indiana? 15

A. No, it's in Phoenix, Arizona. 16

Q. Now -- 17

A. And today I act as a consultant to two 18

companies using my engineering and business background 19

in that industry. 20

Q. Okay. You're still a consultant for 21

engineering also? 22

A. Yes. 23

Q. Okay. What do you call that business?24

55

A. It's just an engineering consulting 1

business I have. 2

Q. You don't have a name for your business? 3

A. No. 4

Q. What do you call your business for 5

representing coaches, does it have a name? 6

A. Eric and I operated under the auspice of 7

LMM Sports Management Coaching Division. 8

Q. Well, I thought you have your own 9

business and you then consult with them? 10

A. I do. I mean it's under -- I mean, it's 11

LMM Sports Management Coaching Division, and I'm a 12

consultant to them. 13

Q. Is there some reason that on your 14

letterhead when you send out the LMM, you don't 15

identify that you're just a consultant with that 16

business as opposed to a part of the business? 17


Q. Is there some reason you don't designate 19

and advise people that would receive your 20

correspondence that you're only a consultant and you 21

aren't actually part of the business of LMM? 22

A. No. 23

Q. There's no reason that you don't put that 24

56

on there -- you don't put that on there, do you? 1

A. No, I do not. 2

Q. These one, two, three, four, five, six, 3

seven prior employers that you had in that 18-year 4

period -- 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. -- did you leave voluntarily in all 7

those, or were you terminated from any of those? 8


You can answer. 10

THE WITNESS: Left 11

voluntarily. 12


Q. All seven of them. So you have good 14

reports and rapport with all those individuals still 15

to this day? 16

A. Uh-huh. 17

Q. Is that yes? 18

A. Yes. 19

Q. Is there some reason you never sat for 20

your engineering license, even though you had a 21

Bachelor of Science degree? 22

A. In the industry I worked in for those 23

years, it was in the Department of Defense and 24

57

aerospace industry, and in the type of positions that 1

I had you didn't have -- professional engineering 2

licenses were not required in that industry. 3

Q. All right. So in this other profession 4

that you had, and still have, perform -- 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. -- once again, there's no regulatory 7

agency in the country whatsoever that oversees your 8

holding yourself out as an engineer even though you 9

have not been licensed through a program of licensing 10

in any state; is that fair to say? 11

A. That's fair to say. 12

Q. Where did you get your expertise, if any, 13

to negotiate contracts? Is it something you just 14

picked up kind of -- 15

MR. ROBON: I'm going to 16

object. 17

You can answer. 18


Q. Did you get -- were there course books or 20

how-to-do-it books to become a Division I coaching 21

representative that you buy at Barnes & Noble or 22

something like that? 23

A. No, it's just through experience, looking 24

58

at different contracts, keeping databases to what's 1

standard operating procedure in, for example, coaching 2

contracts, and what the market industry is. 3

Q. So what you're telling me, that you hit 4

the Internet and do research to find out what other 5

people are getting within the field so far as benefits 6

and other provisions or contracts? 7

A. No, I do research myself through various 8

sources; I collaborate, for example, with other people 9

in the industry, for example, athletic directors and 10

associate athletic directors and prepare data. 11

Q. Compare data. You just look at state and 12

numbers pretty much, and provisions? 13

A. Yeah. In most -- in today's world with 14

the FOIA requirements, you can go and pull off copies 15

of contracts. I believe there is a website called 16

coacheshotseat.com. You can go pull up any Division I 17

BCS head coach contract if you want to. 18

Q. So if I want to tell one of Mr. Robon's 19

children, if he has any children, here's how you can 20

do this, basically you can, say, Hey, just go start 21

collecting data, try to get into the field, and then 22

you can actually hold yourself out as a Division I 23

football coach representative?24

59

A. No, there's more to it than that. If I 1

was selecting a representative. 2

Q. I understand if you would select one. 3

But if you wanted to hold yourself out and get -- I 4

assume you have a little business card, right? 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. Yes? 7

A. Uh-huh. 8

Q. Is that a yes, sir? 9

A. Yes, I do. 10

MR. ROBON: Yeah, you can't say 11

"uh-huh" and "huh-uh." She doesn't know 12

what that is. 13

THE WITNESS: Okay. Yes. 14


Q. So if you wanted to tell Mr. Robon's 16

children, you can just get in, and then it's just kind 17

of the -- as hard as you work, and just kind of 18

learning and picking up, information gathering, 19

basically; is that it? 20

A. Yes, just like it is in a lot of 21

businesses. 22

Q. We aren't talking about other businesses 23

today, Mr. Brown. We're going to talk a little bit 24

60

about some of your businesses. 1

A. Yes. 2

Q. So basically what you do is you gather 3

information and then compare; is that right? 4

A. That's just one part of it. 5

Q. All right. Did you have any expertise in 6

statistics when you went to college? Do you have a 7

statistics degree or -- 8

A. I took economics and statistics classes 9

as an undergraduate at Clemson University. 10

Q. So you had a statistics course? 11

A. Yes, I had one. 12

Q. And you had an economics type of course? 13

A. Yes, I did. 14

Q. Do you recall what that was? 15

A. No, I can't recall. 16

Q. It sounds to me you're kind of pretty 17

much a self-starter; is that a fair way to kind of 18

categorize yourself? 19

A. That's a fair way. 20

Q. Now, down in Atlanta -- is that where 21

your home office is, in Atlanta, where you principally 22

operate? 23


61

Q. Is that in your house? 1

A. That is. 2

Q. Okay. Is there a sign outside your home? 3

When we go down and -- if I -- Mr. Robon doesn't want 4

the address out, but if I would go down to look at it, 5

can I see a sign out that says Mike Brown, Division I 6

football coach representative? 7

A. No. 8

Q. Is there any type of business sign 9

whatsoever in your home in Atlanta? 10

A. No. 11

Q. Are you licensed to do business within 12

the city of Atlanta out of your home, do you know? 13


If you know. 15


Q. Most cities have requirements that if 17

you're operating a business, you got to report it for 18

certain purposes. 19

A. Yeah. We -- my -- our accountant handles 20

all that. 21

Q. My question is do you know if you have a 22

license within the city of Atlanta to actually operate 23

your business at that location?24

62

A. Say it again. 1

Q. Yeah. Do you know if you have a license 2

to operate your business within the city of Atlanta? 3

A. I do not have a license. 4

Q. Do you know if licenses are required in 5

Atlanta? 6

A. I'm not sure. I've never checked it out. 7

Q. How about in Georgia, are you registered 8

as having a business in the state of Georgia? Do you 9

have what's called a business franchise that's, I 10

believe, required in the state of Georgia -- 11

A. Not that I know of. 12

Q. -- to operate a business? When you file 13

your income taxes -- I assume you do, if you don't, 14

tell Mr. Robon real quick here. 15

But if you file your income taxes, do you 16

do a profit C schedule and list a certain type of 17

business that you're involved in? 18

A. Yes. 19


Objection. You can answer. 21

THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 22


Q. Do you list it as LMM, or do you list it 24

63

under just a sole proprietorship business that you're 1

involved in? 2

A. Sole proprietorship. 3

Q. Do you list with any regulatory body fees 4

that are shared or paid by this Arizona firm, LMM? 5


Q. Do you list any fees paid by the LMM 7

business in Arizona that are paid to you? 8

MR. ROBON: You mean on the tax 9

return? 10

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Yes, 11

sir. 12

MR. ROBON: Objection. You can 13

answer. 14

THE WITNESS: Yes, in previous 15

years, when I received or Eric and I 16

split income in regards to coaching 17

clients paying their fees, I've listed 18

that. 19


Q. Okay. So you would have LMM on your tax 21

returns, then? 22

A. No, I would not. 23

Q. Okay. That's my question. Does LMM send 24

64

you a 1099 at the end of the year -- 1



Q. -- for splitting fees or division of 4

fees? 5

MR. ROBON: You can answer. 6

THE WITNESS: No, they do not; 7

they have not yet. 8


Q. What's the fee-splitting arrangement with 10

Mr. Metz on the Rodriguez agreement? 11


MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: That 13

means you have to answer. 14

MR. ROBON: I'm thinking. Go 15

ahead and answer. 16

THE WITNESS: It's 50/50. 17


Q. And what is the percentage charged 19

Coach Rodriguez? 20


THE WITNESS: Pardon? 22


Q. What is the percentage that's charged on 24

65

the -- I think you said the guaranteed -- what did you 1

say, based on the guaranteed -- 2

A. Annual income. 3

Q. Annual income. 4

A. Uh-huh. 5

Q. What's the percentage charged? 6

MR. ROBON: We're going to have 7

an objection. 8

Go ahead and answer. 9

THE WITNESS: 3 percent. 10


The videographer has indicated that we 12

need to take a break and change the 13

tapes, so we're going to take a break, 14

okay, if you need to use the restroom. 15

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the 16

record at 10:00 a.m. 17

THE WITNESS: That's fine. 18

(A brief recess was had.) 19

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the 20



Q. Mr. Brown, how many other college 23

coaches, whether head or assistant, just number-wise, 24

66

do you represent, approximately? 1


You can answer. 3


Q. You told us about Coach Magee, who is an 5

assistant now at Michigan; and Coach Rodriguez, who is 6

the head coach there. 7

A. Uh-huh. How many others? 8

Q. Yes, sir. 9

A. Let me see here. 10

Q. Do you represent Coach Gibson? 11

A. Not formally. I mean, I have times when 12

assistant coaches or coaches will call me up, ask me 13

for advice or counsel, and I would, you know, talk to 14

them, and, you know, give them advice or counsel based 15

on -- on what their situation is, with no formal 16

relationship. 17

Q. Okay. Do you charge hourly on that 18

basis, or is that freebies, with the expectation maybe 19

you'll -- if you're nice to them, you'll end up their 20

agent? 21

A. No, there's no freebies in that. I mean, 22

Eric and I have a policy that when we have assistant 23

coaches, you know, that we know and are friends and 24

67

have a relationship, if they call us up, ask for 1

advice or something, we give it to them, and, you 2

know, there's no need to charge them for that. 3

Q. Okay. So you've advised Coach Gibson 4

also; is that right? 5

A. On a friendly basis, yes. Like just 6

recently -- 7

Q. You just didn't charge? 8

A. No, didn't charge, huh-uh. 9

Q. But you did represent him or provide some 10

of your consulting business? 11

A. Yes. He called this week and he was 12

complaining that West Virginia didn't give him a bowl 13

ring. 14

You know what I told Tony? I said, You 15

can't go forward looking backwards. Just forget about 16

it and keep going. 17

Q. Is that what you told him? 18

A. That's what I told him. 19

Q. Is that your philosophy? 20

A. Well, I mean, if -- there's no need to 21

get drug down in the past and worry about stuff. 22

Don't sweat the small stuff. 23

Q. Okay. 24

68

A. That's what I told him. 1

Q. Okay. So that was your consulting advice 2

to him? 3

A. In that instance, that's just an example. 4

Q. Okay. Have you -- have you done other 5

things for Coach Gibson? 6


You can answer. 8

THE WITNESS: In regards to 9

coaching representation? 10


Q. Yes, sir, yeah. It's your business, 12

right, one of your businesses? 13

A. Uh-huh. Yeah. I do recall one instance 14

when he decided that he was going to resign his 15

position at West Virginia. 16

Q. And you consulted with him on that? 17

A. Yeah. He consulted with me and he said 18

he wanted to resign, and so I believe I typed up his 19

resignation letter and said, This is what you need to 20

do. 21

Q. You actually typed up a proposed 22

resignation letter for Coach Gibson at West Virginia 23

when he was at West Virginia?24

69


You can answer. 2

THE WITNESS: Yes. 3


Q. Do you know if that was the resignation 5

letter that was actually sent? 6

A. I have no knowledge of that, what he did 7

afterwards. 8

Q. And you didn't charge for that; is that 9

right? 10

A. No. 11

Q. Coach Magee, was there any type of 12

resignation advice that you gave him? 13

A. No, but we never had a discussion about 14

that. 15

Q. You indicated that you've been 16

representing Coach Magee since August of 2007 -- 17


Q. -- I think is what you told me? 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. Is there a specific date that you recall 21

that you began representing him? 22

MR. ROBON: Show an 23

objection. 24

70

THE WITNESS: I can't recall the 1

exact date, but I had a conversation with 2

him in July, and then he and I had 3

conversations, and I was up in Morgantown 4

and we had scheduled a meeting, I can't 5

remember the exact date, and we sat down 6

and had a discussion. 7

And Coach Magee felt that it was 8

time that he had representation, because 9

he was -- there were some job openings 10

potentially that were going to come open 11

that he was being mentioned as a head 12

coach and candidate. 13

He's very highly respected among 14

his peers, especially after the bowl game 15

against Oklahoma. You know, he's -- I've 16

had writers and other assistant coaches 17

just talk about what a great game plan he 18

put together, the game that he called 19

that night. 20


Q. Do you do that also, that function -- 22

employment agencies, they call it headhunters, looking 23

for positions that come available so you can put 24

71

coaches in there potentially that are your clients? 1

Do you do that, too, that service? 2

A. Well, yeah, as part of being an agent, 3

you got to know what the potential openings are that 4

are going to happen, and who might be some viable 5

candidate. And it's just knowing what's going on out 6

in the market. 7

Q. Okay. So to your -- are there any other 8

businesses that you do? You're a manager, and you 9

told us, about 60 hours a month for the three LLCs, 10

managing real estate and condominiums? 11

A. Uh-huh. 12

Q. And you're a consultant, engineering, 13

generally, I guess, with some training in mechanical 14

engineering? 15

A. Program management and marketing. 16

Q. Okay. Do you do some program management 17

and marketing also as part of your overall businesses 18

that you do? 19

A. In -- yeah, in managing the LLCs? 20

Q. Yeah, I understand that's a function of 21

your management. 22

A. Yeah. 23

Q. But do you do just program management on 24

72

other things other than the real estate? 1

A. No. 2

Q. Okay. And then you have your football -- 3

or your coaching representation; and then as part of 4

that, you serve as a headhunter looking for positions 5

for individuals also out in the marketplace? 6


to the use of the word headhunter. 8

You can answer. 9


Q. That's okay. You agreed that that's 11

what's those are called, pretty much, in your 12

business? 13

A. Not in the -- not in the football 14

coaching industry, it's not called headhunter. It's 15

called representing your client. 16

Q. You've heard that term before used many 17

times? 18

A. Yes. Uh-huh. 19

Q. All right. Okay. 20

A. So go back to your original question. 21

Q. Yeah. I'm just trying to find out if 22

there's any other businesses that you're involved in 23

other than those that we just talked about?24

73

A. No, there's no other. 1

Q. Is it fair to say that there's no written 2

code of ethics whatsoever that would control your 3

conduct as a Division I representative in coaching? 4

There's no organization that controls ethics within 5

that division? 6

A. There's no organization; however, in 7

dealing with your clients, especially a client like 8

Coach Rodriguez with such an upstanding reputation -- 9

Q. I'm sorry. Did anyone ask you that 10

question here? 11

A. No. You asked me to answer the question. 12

Q. My question was was there any type of 13

regulatory body, was the question, that oversees 14

ethics for you? 15

A. No. 16

Q. That's the question, all right. 17

MR. ROBON: Did you want to 18

expand your answer? 19

THE WITNESS: Sure. 20

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: There 21

is no reason to suggest that he expand 22

his answer. That's an improper 23

suggestion, Mr. Robon, you know it. 24

74

The question was whether there's 1

any formal agencies. You know, you have 2

a right to ask questions later today. 3

MR. ROBON: Okay. I just didn't 4

want him cut off -- 5


Q. Did somebody cut you off, or did you just 7

not answer the question? 8

A. Oh, I answered the question. 9

Q. I thought you did. All right. 10

Now, other coaches -- we have Coach Magee 11

who is an assistant; Coach Rodriguez, who is a head 12

coach -- 13

A. Uh-huh. 14

Q. -- and I think -- and you told me there 15

was also a guy at Clemson that you represent? 16

A. Uh-huh. 17

Q. Assistant coach? 18

A. Yeah, Dabo Sweeney. 19

Q. And he's the head -- 20

A. Assistant head coach. 21

Q. Okay. So we have two assistant coaches 22

and Coach Rodriguez. Are there other coaches that you 23

represent?24

75

A. Yes. There is an assistant coach at 1

Clemson, David Blackwell. 2

Q. This all seems to be kind of interrelated 3

with Clemson, Coach Rodriguez had been there and they 4

all had prior experiences with Clemson? 5

A. Well, you know, yeah, but Dabo hadn't -- 6

Dabo and David Blackwell weren't there when -- were 7

not there when Rich was there. 8

Q. But they all have a common element, 9

connection -- 10

A. Yeah, they all have -- 11

Q. -- with Clemson. 12

A. With Clemson, yeah. 13

Q. Okay. 14

A. Other coaches that I have that have asked 15

for help in the past and I've worked with in the past 16

are Mike O'Cain, the quarterback coach at Virginia 17

Tech? 18

Q. Okay. Now are you telling us that you 19

were the formal representative of Coach O'Cain at 20

Virginia Tech. 21

A. No. What I'm saying is he called me up 22

and asked me for help and advice on a certain matter, 23

and I helped him and advised him, and it didn't pan 24

76

out, but if it had, I would -- he -- I would have 1

ended up representing him in that coaching 2

negotiation. 3

Q. But you were not hired -- 4

A. No. 5

Q. -- and you were not paid -- 6

A. Huh-uh. 7

Q. -- by Coach O'Cain, even though you went 8

down to Virginia Tech to watch the game down there, 9

did you not? Or spring practice, was it? 10

A. Say it again. 11

Q. Didn't you go down to Virginia Tech to 12

watch a spring practice when Coach O'Cain was down 13

there? 14

A. Yeah. 15

Q. Okay. All right. Okay. Who else have 16

you represented where there's -- 17

A. As far as assistant coaches? 18

Q. As far as coaches. 19

A. The Kirby Wilson -- 20

Q. Okay. 21

A. -- the African-American running back 22

coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers. 23

Q. He's the African-American -- 24

77

A. He's an African-American, and he's the 1

running back coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers. 2

Q. He is an African-American. 3


Q. Okay. I just need to know the name. 5

Okay. 6

You represent him -- represented him in 7

the past? 8

A. Yep, represent him today. 9

Q. And you represent him today? 10

A. Yeah. 11

Q. Is he coaching today -- 12

A. Yeah. 13

Q. -- with the Steelers still? 14


Q. Okay. He's one of your clients today? 16

A. That's -- he's one of mine and Eric's 17

clients. 18

Q. Yours and Eric's? 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. Coach O'Cain, you've met, had some 21

discussion, kind of a freebie, and, it did not work 22

out to a contract or a fee; is that right? 23

A. Yeah, that's correct.24

78

Q. Coach Magee is a fee-paying client? 1

A. He doesn't pay any fees until he gets a 2

head-coaching job. 3

Q. Oh, okay. So he's a freebie right now -- 4


Q. -- that you're providing advice and 6

representation to him -- 7

A. Uh-huh. 8

Q. -- and it's contingent upon him getting 9

some head-coaching job? 10

A. Yeah. When it comes time that he gets a 11

head-coaching position, then at that time we would 12

charge him a fee and he would pay it. 13

Q. Is there some formal agreement that he 14

has to employ you if he gets a head-coaching position? 15


You may answer. 17

THE WITNESS: No, there's not. 18


Q. And Coach Gibson, those are freebies 20

also? 21

A. Yeah. 22


You can answer. 24

79


Q. All right. So we have Coach Wilson, the 2

Steelers. Anybody else? 3

A. Yes, Russ Grimm, the assistant head coach 4

for the Pittsburgh Steelers. 5

Q. Russ Grimly? 6

A. Russ Grimm, G-r-i-m-m. 7

Q. Russ Grimm, okay. He's an assistant -- 8

A. He's the assistant head coach, a line 9

coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers. 10

Q. Okay. And you represent them presently? 11

A. Eric and I represent Russ. 12

Q. Eric -- 13

A. Metz. 14

Q. Eric Metz -- 15

A. Yes. 16

Q. -- is involved in both of the Steelers' 17

assistant coaches? 18

A. Yes. 19

Q. And are there formal agreements with them 20

for representation? 21


You can answer. 23

THE WITNESS: I know with Kirby, 24

80

there's not. I've never asked Kirby to 1

sign anything. 2

I'm not sure with Russ. Eric's 3

in the Phoenix office and Russ is out 4

there, but Russ is a fee-paying client. 5


Q. Okay. Anybody else? 7

A. Assistant coaches? 8

Q. Any kind of coach, whether it's head 9

coach or assistant? 10

A. Yes, Pat Flaherty. 11

Q. Where is Mr. Flaherty? 12

A. He's the line coach for the New York 13

Giants. 14

MR. ROBON: He's not related to 15

Tom, is he? 16

THE WITNESS: No. I take great 17

pride in that out of the last two out of 18

three Super Bowl winners, I represent 19

their line coaches. 20


Q. Okay. Coach Flaherty. And is that a 22

fee-paying client? 23

A. Yeah. We have an agreement with him as 24

81

an assistant coach. It's not a fee-paying client, we 1

provide services and recommendations, and then going 2

forward, if at any point in time we negotiate a 3

contract where it increases his pay above the current 4

contract, then we would get paid the fee difference. 5

Q. Okay. So he's a freebie also, but if he 6

gets more money, then you guys will get some 7

percentage? 8

A. Yes, uh-huh. 9

Q. Okay. Is that based on increases, the 10

fee? 11

A. It will be -- as an assistant coach, it 12

would be 2 percent; and if he became head coach, it 13

would be 3 percent. 14

Q. Of the guaranteed -- 15

A. Of total guaranteed. 16

Q. Total guaranteed. Annual income? 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. Is Mr. Metz involved in that one also? 19

A. Yes, he is. 20

Q. All right. Anybody else? 21

A. That I'm involved with or that -- 22

Q. We're here as to your involvement. We 23

know Mr. Metz and those folks represent a lot of other 24

82

people. 1

A. Yeah. 2

Q. You are not involved whatsoever. But 3

what kind of involve -- we're kind of interested a 4

little bit in what you do today, Mr. Brown. 5

A. Okay. That's fine. That's all I can 6

recall at this time. 7

Q. When I had asked you those questions, 8

would that include other divisions other than -- other 9

than Division I coaches and/or professional teams? I 10

assume that you were telling me all the coaches that 11

you have some representation, whether it be freebies 12

or actual fee-paying clients? 13

A. Actually, I forgot another one that I 14

represent is Freddie Kitchens, a tight-end coach for 15

the Arizona Cardinals. 16

Q. Freddie Kitchens? 17


Q. Is that with Mr. Metz also? 19

A. With Mr. Metz and myself. 20

Q. Okay. So was that question that you 21

answered, does that include all coaches, whether it's 22

Division I, II, III, pro sports, semipro? 23

A. That's all I can -- that's all I can 24

83

recall at this time. 1

Q. Do you have a website for your business? 2

A. For what business? 3

Q. For any of your businesses? 4

A. I do not have a website. 5

Q. For any business? 6

A. On the LLCs, for each of the LLC projects 7

that I work with -- the LLCs I work with, there are 8

websites right now for each one of those -- 9

Q. For listings and rentals and things like 10

that? 11

A. No, just -- there's just for the 12

development itself, a description of the development, 13

what units are available for sale, pictures and that. 14

Q. Do you involve yourself in the actual 15

sale of those units also? 16

A. I will if -- for example, in the project 17

in Tuscaloosa right now, if there are some potential 18

buyers that are interested in the unit, the realtor 19

may contact me and ask me that I give them a call and 20

have a discussion with them also. 21

Q. Okay. You don't actively try to sell 22

these units and things like that? 23

A. No, I do not.24

84

Q. Do you have any real estate licenses? 1

A. No. 2

Q. Have you ever been to any specific 3

courses or seminars where they instructed individuals 4

about sports law in representing coaches? 5

A. As far as representing coaches 6

specifically? 7

Q. Yes, sir. 8

A. No, not in the course of specifically 9

representing coaches. And I really don't know of any 10

courses that exist out there. 11

Q. How about generally sports 12

representation, whether it be players, coaches or 13

other people associated with sports teams, have you 14

been to any seminars or courses? 15


You can answer. 17

THE WITNESS: The only course 18

that I was required to go to, went to, 19

was the NFLPA's class and then 20

certification test. 21


Q. So any seminars or that, that was a 23

requirement for your test?24

85

A. Right. 1

Q. Do you have a business card with you? 2

A. No, I do not. 3

Q. How does it identify you on your business 4

card, do you recall? 5

A. It's been so long since I've looked at 6

one. I think it's either player -- the older ones 7

used to be "player representative," and I think I have 8

new cards back at the house that says "coach's 9

representative" since 2000 -- since I quit 10

representing players. 11

Q. Let me ask you a little bit about the fee 12

structure. You told us that Mr. Metz was involved on 13

a 50/50 fee-splitting basis with you in representing 14

Coach Rodriguez since '05, December of '05. 15


Q. Is that correct? 17


Q. Has that remained the same, that fee 19

division, from '05 up until the present time? 20


Q. All right. And so through this Michigan 22

contract also, or the agreement, whatever that is, 23

with Michigan, Mr. Metz also was serving as 24

86

co-representative with you of Coach Rodriguez? 1


You can answer. 3

THE WITNESS: Yeah. He was a 4

co-representative. Again, when you're 5

doing agent business, just like probably 6

in your firm, there is a lead, who -- 7

you're the lead person in representing 8

that client, and then if you feel 9

necessary that you get back in touch with 10

them and ask them questions and things 11

like that. 12


Q. So far as responsibility, though, you and 14

Mr. Metz equally share the responsibility with 15

Coach Rodriguez, at least since summer of '05, 16

although you've pretty much been the face person or 17

the person out front? 18


Q. Okay. You've had access to their entire 20

firm since the summer of '05? 21


Q. As far as if you need information or 23

advice from them on an issue, you can go to them; is 24

87

that right? 1

A. Yeah, but in -- as far as between Eric, 2

myself, and the other two partners out there, I have 3

probably the most knowledge of the college football 4

industry, the most number of contacts and that so -- 5

Q. You're probably the most experienced and 6

smartest person within the firm as to coaches; is 7

that -- 8

MR. ROBON: Objection to the 9

characterization. 10

THE WITNESS: No, I would say I 11

spend more time than any of the three -- 12


Q. That's why I said experience. 14

A. -- working with coaches. And I would say 15

as far as specifically college coaches, yes. 16

Q. So you're the go-to guy at the firm so 17

far as college coaches in football? 18

A. That's true. 19


A. Yeah. 21

Q. All right. And is one of those 22

individuals a lawyer that's one of the partners down 23

there?24

88

A. Ethan Lock is a tenured law professor at 1

Arizona State. 2

Q. Do they have research facilities there to 3

research contract issues and things like that if they 4

need it? 5

A. At the office? 6

Q. At their office, uh-huh. 7

A. Not that I'm aware of. 8

Q. They don't have the Internet and things 9

like that that have come into vogue here in the last 10

few years? 11

A. Yeah, they have the Internet. 12

Q. So they have some research tools, at 13

least to your knowledge? 14


THE WITNESS: I have no 16

knowledge of what research tools they 17

have. 18


Q. Who was Coach Rodriguez's attorney in 20

'05? 21


THE WITNESS: Prior to my taking 23

over? 24

89

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Wait 1

one second. We went down that road a 2

little bit earlier about the message 3

that's being conveyed about "if you 4

know." 5

A person can't answer a question 6

if they don't know, Mr. Robon. 7

MR. ROBON: Just don't guess on 8

that, Mr. Brown. 9

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: You 10

already told him that advice. If you 11

want -- I tell you what: If you want to 12

write it down, and you can show the 13

camera and everybody that you want to 14

suggest it. 15

MR. ROBON: You were asking 16

specific years, and I just don't know if 17

he remembers who was in a particular 18

year. 19


understand. But I'm not asking you the 21

question. 22

MR. ROBON: I understand. 23


90

Q. Go ahead and answer my question. 1

A. When in '05. 2

Q. You began representing Coach Rodriguez in 3

'50, you went to his office, I can't recall whether or 4

not Mr. Metz was on the phone at that time. 5

Was there an attorney at that time 6

representing Coach Rodriguez? 7

A. Prior to that time? 8

Q. At that time. 9

A. At that time or prior to that time? 10

Q. At that time. 11

A. I'm not sure at that time. 12

Q. Did he have an attorney -- did he have an 13

attorney that generally represented his interest at 14

that point in time that was the go-to person, like 15

Brown was the go-to person for condominiums and things 16

like that? 17

A. Repeat the question, please. 18

Q. Was there an attorney that he commonly 19

would contact at that time for legal advice? 20

A. I have no knowledge of who he was 21

contacting in regards to legal advice. 22

Q. Did you advise anybody that you were the 23

sole and exclusive agent of Rich Rodriguez for 24

91

purposes of all contract negotiations at West 1

Virginia? 2


Q. Are you? 4

A. Pardon me? 5

Q. Are you the sole and exclusive agent for 6

Rich Rodriguez on all contract issues at West Virginia 7

University? 8

A. I am the point person -- 9


to that, because he's no longer at West 11

Virginia. 12


Q. Well, there's still contract issues, are 14

there not? 15

A. As far as his sports-agent 16

representation, I am the first -- I am the lead person 17

in his representation. 18

Q. Are you the exclusive person is my 19

question. 20

A. No, I'm not. 21

Q. Have you ever been the exclusive person 22

to represent Coach Rodriguez at West Virginia 23

University on his contract issues?24

92

A. The exclusive? I have been the lead 1

person between Eric and myself in representing him. 2

Q. Mr. Brown, did you not hear the question? 3

The question was are you the exclusive person? 4

A. I am not the exclusive person. 5

Q. Who besides you has represented -- is 6

representing Coach Rodriguez in 2005 on his contract 7

issues with West Virginia University? 8


Q. Who besides you, if anybody -- 10

A. Uh-huh. 11

Q. -- was representing Coach Rodriguez on 12

his contract issues at West Virginia University? 13

A. Eric Metz. 14

Q. In '06, who besides you was representing 15

Coach Rodriguez on his contract issues with West 16

Virginia? 17

A. Eric Metz. 18

Q. And in 2007, who besides you was 19

representing Coach Rodriguez on his contract issues 20

with West Virginia? 21

A. Eric Metz. 22

Q. All right. Are you telling us that there 23

were no attorneys for Coach Rodriguez during any of 24

93

those three-year periods on these contract issues? 1

A. On the contract issue, not to my 2

knowledge. 3

Q. Okay. Do you know a guy by the name of 4

Bennett "Spare" or "Speyer"? 5

A. Speyer. Yes, I do. 6

Q. Did he represent Coach Rodriguez on 7

contract issues? 8

A. He represented Coach Rodriguez on 9

contract issues, I believe. Yes, in financial 10

deferred-compensation issues, he represented 11

Coach Rodriguez. 12

Q. So to some extent then -- he's an 13

attorney, do you understand? 14

A. I have no knowledge whether he's an 15

attorney or not. 16

Q. So you don't know if Mr. Speyer -- is it 17

"Speyer"? Is that how you pronounce that? 18

A. "Speyer," yeah. 19

Q. "Speyer." 20

A. Uh-huh. 21

Q. You don't know if Mr. Speyer is an 22

attorney; is that your testimony? 23

A. Yes, I do not know if he's an attorney.24

94

Q. And do you know a gentleman by the name 1

of Mike Wilcox? 2

A. Yes, I do. 3

Q. And did Mr. Wilcox assist in representing 4

Coach Rodriguez in some aspects of contracts in 2005, 5

2006, and 2007 with West Virginia University? 6

A. Only in 2007. 7

Q. In 2007 he did? 8

A. Yes, he did. 9

Q. Okay. Who else was providing advice to 10

Coach Rodriguez so far as contracts, whether it be a 11

person like you as a coach representative or an 12

attorney or financial advisor? 13

A. The only one that I'm aware of is 14

Dave Hammack, a CPA. 15

Q. Dave Hammack? 16

A. Yes. 17

Q. You understand Mr. Hammack is a certified 18

accountant? 19


Q. And where is Mr. Hammack from? 21

A. Somewhere in the Toledo area here. 22

Q. Have you ever recommended or suggested 23

Coach Rodriguez employ any attorneys in any legal 24

95

matters that he had involving West Virginia 1

University? 2


You can answer. 4

THE WITNESS: Repeat the 5

question. 6


Q. Yes, sir. Have you ever referred or 8

suggested an attorney represent Coach Rodriguez in any 9

legal matters involving West Virginia University, 10

including contracts? 11


You can answer. 13

THE WITNESS: No. 14


Q. Now, as I understand this entire period 16

of time, then, that you were one of the team 17

representing Coach Rodriguez, you and Metz and some of 18

these other folks, you would have at all times during 19

that period of time had access and the ability to 20

consult with an attorney at the LMM firm, the sports 21

firm; is that correct? 22



96

question. 1


Q. Yes. You had access to LMM, including 3

one of the member attorneys, who is an attorney there, 4

during the period of time that you represented 5

Coach Rodriguez from '05 -- 6

A. Yes. 7

Q. -- through his leaving West Virginia; is 8

that correct? 9

MR. ROBON: Show an objection 10

to the question. 11

THE WITNESS: Yes. 12


Q. Would you talk with the attorney member 14

of the firm on occasion about Coach Rodriguez's 15

contract? 16


THE WITNESS: No. 18


Q. You never did? 20

A. Nope. 21

Q. Why not? 22

A. Because there weren't any legal issues 23

that I thought during that time that needed to be 24

97

discussed. 1

Q. We're going all the way through 2007, you 2

understand? 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. Is that true, you never contacted the 5

attorney member of the LMM firm out in Arizona during 6

any periods of time that you were representing 7

Coach Rodriguez -- 8


Q. -- from 2005 through December of 2007? 10

Yeah. You interrupted me before I 11

finished. 12

A. Okay. 13

Q. You never consulted any attorney at the 14

LMM firm, who was the member, from 2005 all the way 15

through the end of 2007 concerning any West Virginia 16

issues or contracts with Mr. Rodriguez; is that true? 17


You can answer. 19

THE WITNESS: No. 20


Q. That's a true statement? 22

A. That's a true statement. 23

Q. Now, was there some agreement that you're 24

98

aware of that this Attorney Speyer limited his advice 1

to only certain provisions of the contract at West 2

Virginia University involving Mr. Rodriguez? 3


You can answer. 5


knowledge of any agreements involving 7

Bennett Speyer. 8


Q. Did you talk to Mr. Speyer about the 10

contract? 11


You can answer. 13

THE WITNESS: In '06 and '07, I 14

had conversations in regards to -- with 15

Bennett Speyer by phone and by e-mail as 16

to where he was in preparing the 17

deferred-compensation language, so that 18

we could proceed on -- that we could 19

continue having discussions with 20

Craig Walker and Mike Garrison to 21

continue the discussions on getting the 22

contract signed. 23


99

Q. Have you proposed contract language for 1

any of Rich Rodriguez's contracts with West Virginia 2

University? 3

A. Yes, I have. 4

Q. Who's taught you to draft contract 5

provisions in an employment contract? Is there some 6

person, individual you would hold responsible and say 7

so-and-so has taught me and trained me to -- 8

A. No, there's no one that has trained me. 9

It's just experience, using my education, knowing 10

exactly what the common standards are in the industry, 11

and having negotiations and discussions with the 12

attorneys and representatives on the other side. 13

Q. Do you consider contracts, employment 14

contracts like Coach Rodriguez's '06 and '07 contracts 15

with West Virginia, legal documents? 16

A. Do I consider them as legal documents? 17

Would you repeat the question? 18

Q. Did you not hear it? 19

A. Well, you -- 20

Q. Just state it verbatim? 21

A. Repeat the question, please. 22

Q. Did you not hear it, or did you not 23

understand it?24

100

A. I didn't understand it. What's the 1

question again? 2

Q. Did you consider the contracts of '06 and 3

'07 with Rodriguez and West Virginia University as 4

legal documents? 5

A. I did consider them as legal documents 6

after they were signed by all parties. 7

Q. Okay. And did you consider the 8

provisions within the contracts in '06 and '07 as 9

legal provisions? 10

A. Yes. 11

Q. Have you generally, then, held yourself 12

out as having legal knowledge enough to draft contract 13

provisions, make suggestions, at least, for 14

Mr. Rodriguez in West Virginia? 15

A. Yes. 16


MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Did 18

you get the answer "yes"? 19

Was that your answer, "yes," so 20

there's no mistake? 21


question, please. 23

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Would 24

101

you read that back? 1

MR. ROBON: Why don't you 2

just -- give me a chance, so we're -- 3

give me a chance to decide whether I want 4

to object. 5

THE WITNESS: All right. 6

MR. ROBON: We can't talk at the 7

same time. Okay. 8

(Court Reporter read back the 9

following: 10

"Question: Have you generally, 11

then, held yourself out as having legal 12

knowledge enough to draft contract 13

provisions, make suggestions, at least, 14

for Mr. Rodriguez in West Virginia?" 15

MR. ROBON: And I objected. 16

You can answer. 17

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: He 18

answered "yes." Did you -- you have that 19

on your transcript? 20

MR. ROBON: Is that correct, you 21

answered "yes"? 22


Q. This firm that you have some relationship 24

102

with, I guess, LMM. 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. If you have -- if you have a customer, do 3

they have to join in if you ask for their assistance? 4

Do they have to serve as co-representatives, or can 5

they say, no, we don't want to be involved in that? 6


You can answer. 8


Q. They have the right to turn you down, 10

don't they? 11

A. Say it again. 12

Q. Yeah. If you -- if you go out and you 13

land a coach at a Division II school, and you call him 14

up, say Mr. Metz, Eric, can you help, and you want to 15

split the fee on this guy, and we'll do the work 16

together, he doesn't have to accept that; is that 17

correct? 18

A. That's correct, yes. 19

Q. Now, when you -- when you met with 20

Rodriguez in '05, the summer of '05, you can't 21

remember the exact date -- 22

A. Uh-huh. 23

Q. -- summer you told me, at that time, did 24

103

you at that time tell Rodriguez that Metz was going to 1

be a 50/50 sharing partner of yours in this 2

arrangement? 3

A. I did not disclose to Coach Rodriguez how 4

Eric and I split fees. 5

Q. Have you ever disclosed to Rodriguez how 6

you split the fees? 7


You can answer. 9

THE WITNESS: No. 10


Q. When you talk about the guaranteed annual 12

income, how do you compute that on these fees? Just 13

take Rodriguez's contract that he had in August of 14

'07, are you generally familiar with that? 15

A. Yes. 16

Q. Okay. Just generally tell me how you 17

would do the math for that? 18

A. Whatever his base salary and supplemental 19

income was on the contract, add those two numbers 20

together, and that was his total guaranteed annual 21

income. 22

Q. Okay. Do you receive the fee just once, 23

even though the contract was multiyear?24

104

A. What we do is we will, like, for example, 1

work with his accountant, and ask them what is the 2

best way as far as -- and we do this with all our 3

clients -- what's the best way for the client in 4

regards to paying fees as to whether it's done 5

annually or biannually depending on what's the tax 6

advantage to him as far as business expenses. 7

Q. Okay. Let me just ask the question 8

again. 9

A. Yeah. 10

Q. In '07, the contract extended -- that was 11

signed by Mr. Rodriguez was extended to 2014? 12

A. Uh-huh. 13

Q. That's a yes? 14

A. Yes. 15

Q. All right. Is the guaranteed annual 16

income you get paid, each yearly guaranteed annual 17

income as the year rolls around in '07, '08, '09, 18

2010, 2014, would you receive your percentage that you 19

told us earlier about each year? 20


You can answer. 22

THE WITNESS: He would -- at the 23

end of each calendar year, he could 24

105

choose to pay annually, or, for example, 1

biannually, depending on what was more 2

advantageous to him. 3


Q. Okay. But it's not a one-time fee that 5

you landed a seven-year contract? 6

A. No, no. He does not pay upfront for the 7

full seven years, if that's what you're asking. 8

Q. That's one of the questions I was going 9

to ask you. 10

A. Yeah. 11

Q. All right. But you get paid -- what he 12

gets on his gross salary during the year, you get paid 13

a percentage every year of a seven-year contract? 14


Q. And once the contract is entered into -- 16

A. Uh-huh. 17

Q. -- signed by the parties, it becomes a 18

binding contract at that point, does it? 19

A. Yes. 20

Q. All right. Once it becomes that, what do 21

you have to do for the contract to keep it alive as a 22

coaching representative? 23

MR. ROBON: Are you referring to 24

106

Rodriguez or just generally coaching? 1

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: He 2

only has, really, Rodriguez, I think, as 3

the head coach. But, yeah, 4

Coach Rodriguez is a good one to use. 5


You can answer. 7


Q. I mean, what duties and responsibilities 9

do you have with that contract? You got the contract; 10

it's in existence to 2014. 11

A. All right. 12

Q. You're entitled to a fee even though you 13

don't have an agreement, written agreement with 14

Coach Rodriguez? 15

A. In Coach Rodriguez's case, are you -- 16

Q. I mean, are there some other services you 17

have to perform for him, do you have to look for new 18

jobs to get out of the contract; is your obligation to 19

try to figure out how to get out of the contract, or 20

how to change the contract, even though it's in 21

existence for seven years? 22

A. No. 23

Q. Are you employed to look for ways to 24

107

breach the contract or to get out of it for the coach? 1

A. No. 2


THE WITNESS: No. 4


Q. You really have no duties and 6

responsibilities once the contract is signed, like 7

Coach Rodriguez, until 2014 or sometime shortly before 8

that when you would be renegotiating it; is that 9

right? 10


You can answer. 12

THE WITNESS: Yeah, I have some 13

obligation. For example, in 14

Coach Rodriguez's instances -- instance, 15

when he signed the contract in August, 16

there were verbal promises made to him by 17

Mike Garrison and Craig walker. 18


Q. Where were those written? 20

A. They were summarized, for example, in the 21

e-mail by Mike Garrison August 27th. 22

Q. That that was part of his contract? 23

A. That that was -- there was a meeting in 24

108

which Coach Rodriguez met with Mike Garrison, 1

Craig Walker, myself, Rita Rodriguez and he were 2

there. They discussed issues. 3

Mike Garrison made some statements, some 4

promises to Coach Rodriguez. I don't feel 5

Coach Rodriguez would have signed the contract unless 6

those promises were made. Those promises were made to 7

Coach Rodriguez, and there were some time frames put 8

in to when certain things were going to be done and 9

looked at. 10

And so recently, in 2007, as 11

Coach Rodriguez's agent, I felt it was my fiduciary 12

duty to stay in touch with West Virginia and track 13

their progress in keeping to those verbal promises 14

which were made to Rich, and I feel the only reason he 15

signed the contract was because of those verbal 16

promises by Mike Garrison and Craig Walker. 17

Q. That's your feeling, right? 18

A. It's my feeling, since -- 19

Q. Did you tell him not to sign the contract 20

in August? 21

MR. ROBON: Let him finish the 22

first question, please. 23


109

Q. Did you tell him not to sign -- 1

MR. ROBON: No, no, no. Let 2

him -- 3


Q. -- the contract in August? 5

MR. ROBON: Let him finish the 6

answer to your prior question about the 7

feelings. 8

THE WITNESS: As time has gone 9

on and I've looked back and I have seen 10

some discovery stuff that's been turned 11

over, some e-mails from Mike Garrison and 12

Mike Wilcox, a memo from Craig walker to 13

Eddie Pastilong, a memo from Russ Sharp 14

to them and so forth, I felt that, you 15

know, that -- that Mike Garrison 16

intentionally was -- told anything he 17

would say at that time to Coach Rodriguez 18

to get him to sign the contract. 19


Q. Mr. Brown, did you tell him not to sign 21

the contract? 22


You can answer. 24

110


Q. August of '07, did you? 2

A. Yes, I told him not to sign the contract. 3

Q. All right. So this man went ahead, 4

against your advice, and signed the contract of August 5

24th, 2007; is that right, Mr. Brown? 6

You don't have to look to him for 7

answers. Look right in that camera and tell those 8

folks. 9

A. Yes, yes. 10

Q. You told him not to, and this man went 11

ahead and did it on his own, right? 12

A. He signed the contract. 13

Q. Because he was the final decision-maker 14

that could overrule anything you said, Metz said and 15

everybody else, right? 16

A. That's the way it is. He's the client. 17

Q. And because you warned him not to sign 18

this contract, Don't do this because this is going to 19

have legal effects and binding effects upon you, you 20

told him not to sign it, didn't you? Didn't you? 21

A. I told him not to sign it, and -- 22

Q. And he went ahead and did it, didn't he? 23

MR. ROBON: Would you let him 24

111

finish, please. 1


Q. Mr. Brown, it's a simple yes or no. 3


Robon, we're not going to have your 5

suggestions. You go ahead -- 6

MR. ROBON: I'm not suggesting. 7


and let him testify. 9

MR. ROBON: I just -- I want to 10

let him answer his questions. 11


Q. He went ahead and signed it against the 13

advice of his -- of your representation, didn't he? 14

A. Yes, he did. 15

Q. And Mr. Metz's representation? 16

A. Yes, he did. 17

Q. And Bennett Speyer was involved in the 18

case, who was an attorney, at least at that time, 19

wasn't he? 20

A. Bennett Speyer was not present at the 21

meeting that day. 22

Q. But he had talked to Coach Rodriguez on 23

all these pension funds and deferred compensation and 24

112

some of the financial matters, hadn't he? 1

A. Yes, he had. 2

Q. And his wife Rita was there telling him, 3

also at that meeting, wasn't she? 4

A. She was at the meeting. 5

Q. And Mike Wilcox, a sophisticated 6

financial advisor, had been in constant communications 7

was him also, right? 8

A. Yes. 9

Q. And Rich Rodriguez, despite all those 10

people and all that advice, and this big firm from -- 11

where are they from, Arizona, LMM? 12

A. I wouldn't call us a big firm. 13

Q. What? 14

A. We aren't a big firm. 15

Q. You're just a little guy, aren't you? 16

A. Yeah. 17

Q. Right. -- all the way from Arizona, and 18

your office down in Georgia, and despite all that, 19

Rich Rodriguez went ahead and signed it, despite being 20

warned by all of you professionals, right? 21


You can answer that question. 23

Listen to it carefully. 24

113


Q. He went ahead and signed it because he 2

was the final decision-maker. 3

MR. ROBON: That wasn't the 4

question. 5


Q. Is that right, sir? 7

MR. ROBON: The question was -- 8

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: I'll 9

withdraw the question. 10

MR. ROBON: He was warned by all 11

the decision-makers. 12


Q. He had been warned by these 14

decision-makers, Don't sign, and he went ahead and 15

signed, didn't he? 16

A. I only have knowledge of what I told Rich 17

to do. 18

Q. Well, you were the big guy. You were 19

pretty much the head guy, you told me, you were the 20

face guy in this representation team. You told him, 21

Don't do it, Rich, and he did it. Is that true or 22

not? 23

A. I advised Rich not to signed the contract 24

114

because it was -- it put too much risk on Rich and put 1

West Virginia in a situation where they did not have 2

to follow up on the promises. 3

The 4 million dollars was a penalty that 4

was going to be stuck on Rich, and because of that 4 5

million dollar penalty, West Virginia, Mike Garrison 6

would be in a position for a period of time that they 7

would not have to follow through on any of the 8

promises that they made to Rich Rodriguez that day he 9

signed the contract. 10

And I advised Rich of that risk and of 11

that issue and of the potential of Mr. Garrison and 12

Craig Walker not following through on their promises, 13

and also brought up to him the previous behavior 14

pattern in the West Virginia organization, community, 15

Eddie Pastilong, the Board of Governors and the 16

Governor. 17

And I told Rich that it was a risk to 18

sign that contract based on those verbal promises in a 19

4 million dollar buyout, because there was no leverage 20

or commitment, or West Virginia was not going -- was 21

going to be in a position for a period of time where 22

Rich was going to be held hostage by such a large 23

penalty, and West Virginia would not have to follow 24

115

through on the verbal promises they made to him. 1

Q. You couldn't leverage the University to 2

get them back to the bargaining table after that 3

contract became binding on August 24th, 2007, could 4

you? 5


answer. 7


question. 9


Q. There was nothing that you could do to 11

get them back to the bargaining table to obligate West 12

Virginia to ever come back until 2014 with Coach 13

Rodriguez with that contract? 14

A. There was a verbal promise made by 15

Mike Garrison on August the 24th that he would revisit 16

the contract in December of '07 or January of '08, to 17

address the fairness of the contract and the terms and 18

conditions of the contract at that time. 19

Mike Garrison stated to Rodriguez on 20

August 24th that he would be -- Rich would be doing 21

him a favor and -- by signing the contract. There is 22

an e-mail. Let me pull out this e-mail here. 23

Q. Well, you already answered the question, 24

116

but -- 1

A. I'm -- I'm -- 2

Q. -- go ahead with your speech. 3

A. Sure. 4

Q. And then we'll ask questions. 5

A. Here is a copy of an e-mail from Mike 6

Garrison to Mike Wilcox dated August 9, 2007. Mike 7

Garrison -- 8

Q. This is before the contract was signed, 9

sir? 10

A. Yeah, this is before the contract was 11

signed. 12

(Reading:) Thanks very much for your 13

follow-up e-mail and your participation in this 14

process. I'm pleased that your sense is that things 15

are moving ahead very well, and want to reiterate my 16

previous sentiments about bringing this process to a 17

close very soon. 18

As chairman of the board, I'm sure that 19

you can appreciate the fact that our next scheduled 20

WVU board of Board of Governors meeting is likely to 21

be moved up to August 31st from September 6th and 7th, 22

and we will be asked to report on the contract issue. 23

Our WVU Board of Governors Chairman anticipates with 24

117

certainty that this matter will be finalized by no 1

later than by the above-referenced meeting, and I have 2

assured him that at least from the University's 3

perspective, that it will be completed on or before 4

that date. 5

Thanks for your involvement and please 6

feel free to contact me, Craig, or Alex. 7

So the way I look at it, and now that 8

I've seen this e-mail, Mr. Garrison was under a lot of 9

pressure to promise and say whatever he had to to 10

Rich Rodriguez to get him to sign the contract that 11

day. 12

Q. First of all, when did you get that 13

e-mail? Yesterday -- 14

A. I got -- 15

Q. -- Mr. Brown? 16

A. I did not get this yesterday. 17

Q. Within the last week? 18

A. Let me see. I can't recall when I got 19

this e-mail. 20

Q. Were you at Mr. Robon's office, was he 21

with you someplace meeting? 22

MR. ROBON: You mean with regard 23

to the e-mail?24

118

THE WITNESS: I remember how I 1

got the e-mail now. It was part of the 2

discovery that was turned over to -- in 3

regards to the request of discovery by 4

Mr. Robon and Mr. McGinley. 5


Q. Within the last week is approximately 7

when you got it? 8

A. No. I've had it -- I think I've had -- 9

let me see here. 10

I've had this -- I can't recall, but it's 11

been within the last 30 to 45 days, maybe, that I've 12

had it. 13

Q. And do you -- do you realize -- so you've 14

been actively involved in this lawsuit, in discovery 15

and going through records and documents in the 16

lawsuit, too, then; is that right? 17


answer. 19

THE WITNESS: Yes, I have. 20


Q. Okay. And you know that two weeks after 22

that letter, your customer signed an agreement that 23

said there were no other agreements or understandings 24

119

whatsoever. You're aware of that language, aren't 1

you? 2

A. Yes. 3

Q. In fact, you actually recited it several 4

times in contract proposals that you submitted to West 5

Virginia University, that exact language, did you not? 6


answer. 8

THE WITNESS: Yes. 9


Q. And you're familiar with those types of 11

provisions, right? 12

A. Yes. 13

Q. And why do you put those provisions in, 14

that there are no other agreements or understandings, 15

oral or in writing, other than this contract? Why do 16

you do that? 17

A. That -- 18

Q. Why do you put them in? 19


Q. Why do you suggest language like that in 21

some of the contracts you process? 22

A. I did not put that language in there. 23

That language was in there from the original 2005 24

120

employment agreement, and so going forward on the 1

follow-on amendments, the language remained in there. 2

Q. Do you ever propose language like that? 3

MR. ROBON: You mean on Rich's 4

contract or others? 5


Q. In any contract. In any contract. It's 7

common, that's a standard clause in a lot of 8

contracts. 9

A. In a lot of contracts, it is. It can be 10

put in; it cannot be put in. Each individual contract 11

is different. 12

Q. And in this contract, on August 24 of 13

'07, it was in there, wasn't it? 14

A. In the second amendment, it was in there. 15

Q. Did you ever tell anybody -- 16

A. No, no, excuse me now. The second 17

amendment was an amendment by itself to the original 18

employment agreement, so that language is only valid, 19

I believe, in regards to the original employment 20

agreement. 21

Q. Well, the second amendment -- Mr. Robon 22

doesn't have to shake his head over there. But the 23

second amendment incorporates all the language of the 24

121

first contract, does it not, unless it's specifically 1

addressed? 2

MR. ROBON: Objection. It's 3

calling for a legal opinion. 4


Q. And is that right, Mr. Brown? 6

A. I can't recall because it's been months 7

since I sat down and looked at the document. 8


Let me show it to you, then. First of 10

all, Exhibit 53. 11

(Brown Exhibit 53 was marked 12

for identification.) 13


Q. I'll hand it to Mr. Robon, and then show 15

you Exhibit 53, Brown 53. 16

Turn to page 13, Mr. Brown. 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. Are you familiar with that Roman numeral 19

X there? This is the 2002 contract. Do you see that, 20

sir? 21

A. Uh-huh. 22

MR. ROBON: Whoa. What page is 23

that? 24

122

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Is 1

that yes, Mr. Brown? 2

THE WITNESS: Page 13. I see 3

page 13. 4


Q. Would you read that into the record, 6

please? 7

A. All right. What paragraph? 8

Q. Roman numeral X. 9

A. Roman numeral X, Entire Agreement: 10

Amendment. "It is mutually understood that this 11

Agreement contains all of the terms and conditions to 12

which the parties have agreed and that no other 13

understandings or representations, either oral or 14

written, unless referenced in preceding paragraphs, 15

regarding the subject matter of this Agreement shall 16

be deemed to exist or to bind the parties hereto. Any 17

modification, amendment or addendum to this Agreement 18

shall be effective only if made in writing and signed 19

by both parties." 20



MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: All 23

right. Now, I would like to show you 24

123

Exhibit 54. 1

MR. ROBON: Am I to presume 2

there are at least 54 other exhibits if 3

you marked them like that? 4


Q. Mr. Brown, I'm showing you Exhibit 54. 6

This is the June of '06 agreement; is that right? 7


Q. Are you familiar with this first 9

amendment? 10

A. Yes, I am. 11

Q. Did you participate in some of the 12

language in negotiations for the first amendment? 13

A. Yes, I did, and so did Eric Metz. 14

Q. Mr. Metz did also? 15

A. Yes. In fact, I remember one time 16

Mr. Metz and I traveled together and had a meeting 17

with Tom Dorer in his office regarding this first 18

amendment. 19

Q. And did the first amendment incorporate 20

the entire second -- the entire provision of Roman 21

numeral X? It's the last page, item No. 6. 22

Did it incorporate the entire agreement? 23

A. Let me see here. You want me to read it 24

124

for the record? 1

Q. Yeah, that would be good. 2

A. All right. No. 6, "Except as set forth 3

in this first amendment, the Agreement remains in full 4

force and effect and unamended." 5

Q. So did that provision survive, then, this 6

amendment and become part of it? 7

MR. ROBON: Objection. Calls 8

for a legal conclusion. 9


Q. You negotiated it, didn't you? 11

MR. ROBON: You can answer if 12

you know. 13

THE WITNESS: I can't provide a 14

legal opinion on it, if that's what 15

you're asking for. 16


Q. All right. So you don't know if that 18

provision, then, would apply? And you're this big 19

sports agent, coaching agent, you don't know if that 20

provision applies in a contract; is that your 21

testimony? 22

A. I -- 23

Q. Is that your testimony, you don't know if 24

125

it applies, sir? 1

A. In a legal court with all different 2

issues and that, I'm not sure what legal opinion -- 3

Q. Let me ask you as an agent with your 4

customers, do you tell them it applies or it doesn't 5

apply? 6


You can answer. 8

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: 57. 9

MR. WAKEFIELD: Is there some 10

reason why you have to keep looking at 11

Mr. Robon? 12

THE WITNESS: Well, because he 13

asked me to, you know, make sure I slowed 14

down and give him a chance after each 15

question if he wants to interject. So 16

that's why I just slowed down. 17

MR. ROBON: Yeah, I'm not 18

signaling him or anything. 19

THE WITNESS: No. 20

MR. ROBON: Actually, I'm ready 21

to go to the bathroom, if you guys want 22

to take a break. 23


126

Q. Answer the question, Mr. Brown. As an 1

agent, are you telling us that you don't know enough 2

to tell us whether or not the paragraph you just read, 3

paragraph 6 in the first amendment, incorporates that 4

clause in Roman numeral X that says there's no other 5

agreements whatsoever other than what's in the 6

contract? 7


You can answer. 9


Q. You don't know enough as an agent? 11

A. I know enough as to what, on face value, 12

yes, it does incorporate it. 13




Q. All right. And then Exhibit 57, this is 17

the agreement that you said to Rodriguez, Don't sign, 18

but he signed it anyway, 57. 19

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Here 20

you go, Marv. 21


Q. Do you see that one? 23

A. I see it.24

127

Q. You see that language at the end in -- I 1

think it's paragraph 13. 2

A. Uh-huh. 3

Q. Is that a yes? 4

A. Uh-huh. 5

Q. Was that a yes, Mr. Brown, that you saw 6

it? 7

A. I see it now. 8

Q. Okay. That's a yes? Is that the same 9

paragraph -- would you read that to the -- I think 10

Mr. Robon asked people to talk in the camera to read 11

to the jury, so maybe we can do that. 12

Would you read that, August 24, 2007, 13

signed by your customer, Rodriguez. Right? 14

A. Paragraph 13, "Except as set forth in the 15

Second Amendment, the Agreement remains in full force 16

and effect and unamended." 17

Q. And does that mean what it says, that 18

there are no other agreements other than this 19

agreement and whatever precedes it in the first 20

amendment in the contract -- 21



Q. -- as you understand it as an agent?24

128

MR. ROBON: Show an objection on 1

two bases: Number one, it calls for a 2

legal conclusion; and number two, it's 3

not clear by that paragraph whether or 4

not the first amendment is totally 5

annihilated by the second amendment. 6


is a speaking objection, Mr. Robon. In 8

West Virginia, we don't do those, they 9

aren't permitted. 10

MR. ROBON: Well, it's because 11

it's a legal conclusion you're asking. 12


I appreciate that. This is the third or 14

fourth time I've asked you that, and I 15

would certainly provide the same courtesy 16

to you. We know speaking objections, 17

that they are improper, and I would 18

appreciate you not doing that. 19


Q. Let's go ahead, Mr. Brown, and go ahead 21

and tell the jury, that provision once again indicates 22

that the contract provision survives and becomes part 23

of this, that there are no other agreements other than 24

129

these contracts, the '02 contract, the first amendment 1

and the second amendment, there is no other 2

understandings unless they are in writing signed by 3

the parties; is that true? 4


If you know. 6


Q. It's provision X, Roman numeral X? 8

A. In the second amendment? 9

Q. It's in the contract, sir. 10

A. Okay. Hold on a second. 11

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: How 12

are we doing time-wise? 13

Go ahead. 14

THE WITNESS: What's the 15

question, again? 16


Q. That provision, that there is no other 18

agreements, oral, verbal, or any other way, unless 19

it's actually in the contract signed by the parties, 20

that survived and became part of the August 24, 2007, 21

second amendment; is that true? 22


You can answer. 24

130

THE WITNESS: According -- on 1

the paper, yes, it is. But again, I want 2

to state that there were verbal promises 3

made by Mike Garrison and Craig Walker 4

that Rich Rodriguez based his decision on 5

to sign the contract. 6

Now, what happens after that in 7

a legal court of law, I'm not a legal 8

expert. 9


Q. We know -- we know that, that you're not 11

an expert. 12

If this provision was signed -- and this 13

is one of the reasons you told Rodriguez not to sign, 14

but he went ahead and signed it anyway, against your 15

advice; is that right? 16


THE WITNESS: Answer? 18



Q. You have to answer. 21

A. Yes. 22


close are you? 24

131

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: About a 1

minute and a half. 2


is pretty good. 4


Q. The 4 million dollars in liquidated 6

damages -- 7

A. Uh-huh. 8

Q. -- do you have to pay part of that? 9

A. No. 10

Q. Kick back money to Rich Rodriguez on 11

that? 12


THE WITNESS: No. 14


Q. Is that a separate agreement that you 16

have, that's part of -- it's not to be subtracted from 17

the annual compensation? 18

A. There's no separate agreement. 19

Q. You haven't talked to Mr. Rodriguez about 20

whether you have to pay back a portion of it when -- 21

when ordered by the court? 22

A. No. 23

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: This 24

132

is a good time. 1

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going 2

off the record at 11:14 a.m. 3





Q. Mr. Brown, as to the first amendment, 8

which is Brown Exhibit 54 -- 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. -- to Mr. Rodriguez's contract, which is 11

dated June 24, 2006, the specific provision at the end 12

of that amendment, No. 6, which incorporates all the 13

language from the first agreement unless specifically 14

set forth in that amendment, did you ever specifically 15

request that that language be deleted? 16


You can answer. 18

THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 19


Q. And I take it, then, you have not seen 21

any documents that anybody ever requested that 22

paragraph 6 be removed or deleted from the first 23

amendment; is that a true statement?24

133

A. That's true. 1

Q. As to the second amendment to the 2

employment agreement for Richard Rodriguez, the 3

provision that you had read into the record, paragraph 4

13, which also incorporates the entire agreement 5

unless it's specifically set forth in the second 6

amendment, did you ever have any writings where you 7

directed or suggested that that paragraph be removed 8

from Mr. Rodriguez's contract with West Virginia? 9


You can answer. 11

THE WITNESS: No. 12


Q. Did you ever make such a recommendation 14

to Mr. Rodriguez or any representative of West 15

Virginia University or anybody else on the team 16

advising Mr. Rodriguez at that time? 17

A. No. 18

MR. ROBON: Sean, are you back 19

with us. 20

MR. McGINLEY: I'm here. 21


Q. Did you ever specifically -- 23

A. Before you go on, something does catch my 24

134

eye here, except -- the paragraph 13 is, "Except as 1

set forth in this second amendment, the agreement 2

remains in full force and effect and unamended." 3

Q. All right. 4

A. I believe there is some ambiguity there 5

in that that should probably, for legal purposes, have 6

read, Except as set forth in this second amendment, 7

the original agreement and first amendment remains in 8

full force. 9

Q. Correct. And the -- 10

A. So I think there's -- now that you look 11

at it, I think there is some ambiguity there. 12

Q. What's that mean to you? 13

A. That -- 14

Q. Is that a legal defense, as you 15

understand it? 16

A. No, it's not a legal defense, but it's 17

something that I would raise to an attorney to look 18

into that has real expertise and years of experience 19

in contract law. 20

Q. So we know you missed it as his paid-for 21

customer representative, agent or whatever, you missed 22

it, didn't you? Is that what you're saying, you 23

messed up there, and didn't pick out something?24

135

A. No, I'm not saying that I messed up. 1

Based on where we're at today, both your side and our 2

side, if you look at it -- 3

Q. Your side? 4

A. Well, the West Virginia side and the Rich 5

Rodriguez side, that paragraph 13 may have some, you 6

know -- by not clarifying that it says, The original 7

and first agreement remains in full force. You know, 8

when you talk about agreement, exactly what -- what of 9

the agreements are you talking about. 10

Q. Well, you approved of the language 11

defining what the agreement was, didn't you? Doesn't 12

the contract define it? 13

A. The contract defines the language, yes. 14

Q. It defines what the agreement is, so 15

there's no ambiguity. It defines it right in the 16

initial second paragraph of the agreement -- of the 17

amendment. 18

MR. ROBON: Objection. Being 19

argumentative. 20


Q. Did you see that -- 22

A. Yes. 23

Q. -- or did you miss that part, too?24

136

A. No, I didn't miss that one. 1

Q. Okay. It's not one of the ones you 2

missed. Exhibit 57, Brown Exhibit 57 that you looked 3

at earlier -- 4

A. Which is? 5

Q. Which is the one you were just talking 6

about -- 7

A. Oh, the second amendment. 8

Q. Yeah, the one that's in your hand. 9

Second paragraph, how does it define the agreement? 10

The second paragraph, would you read that into the 11

record. 12

A. "Whereas the University and Coach entered 13

into an Employment Agreement effective December 21, 14

2002," paragraph [sic] the Agreement. 15

Q. What does that mean when it says the, 16

quote, Agreement, unquote, is that a definition term, 17

then, throughout the contract? 18

A. Yes, it is. 19

Q. Okay. So there's no ambiguity, right? 20



Q. It's clear from the definition what 23

they're talking about. 24

137


THE WITNESS: I can't render a 2

full legal opinion on that. 3


Q. Okay. You don't have a full legal 5

opinion on that one? 6

A. No. 7

Q. All right. Now, paragraph Roman numeral 8

X in the agreement, quote, the Agreement. 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. The December '02 agreement? 11


Q. All right. Do you have -- first of all, 13

do you have any writing that ever suggests or directs 14

that that provision be removed or stricken from any of 15

the two amendments that were signed by Mr. Rodriguez? 16

A. What -- what paragraph is that again? 17

Q. It's Roman numeral X. 18

MR. WAKEFIELD: Page 13. 19


Q. We're talking about Exhibit 53, which is 21

the contract, be sure what we're talking about. 22

There's two amendments to it. 23

A. Yes.24

138

Q. Do you have any writings in the world 1

that tell us you suggested or hinted or told anybody 2

that that language should be removed? 3

A. No. 4

Q. Okay. And that would have pertained to 5

when you participated and guided and advised, provided 6

advice on this contract to Mr. Rodriguez in the first 7

amendment; is that true? 8


Q. And it also then lasted from the first 10

amendment all the way through the second amendment 11

that was then executed August 24, 2007; is that true? 12

A. Yes. 13



Q. And do you -- did you tell anybody that, 16

Hey, this provision, which is, I think you said 17

earlier, a legal provision and a binding provision 18

when parties sign off on it, that it should be 19

removed -- 20



Q. -- from Mr. Rodriguez's contract of 23

August 24, 2007, the second amendment?24

139


You can answer. 2

THE WITNESS: I never told -- I 3

never asked or requested that be 4

removed. 5


Q. How many times do you think you read the 7

proposed language in these -- let's talk about the 8

first amendment. You participated in that, didn't 9

you? 10

A. Uh-huh. 11

Q. Yes? 12

A. Yes, I did. 13

Q. Okay. How many times -- are you pretty 14

careful about reading contracts, or you just kind 15

of -- just pick and choose what you want to read? 16

A. I'm pretty careful. 17

Q. Pretty careful. You're very careful, 18

you're very meticulous; in fact, you actually point 19

out single words sometimes, don't you, if you feel 20

that it's not in your client's best interest? 21

A. Yes, contracts. 22

Q. That's how thorough you are going through 23

these contracts, right?24

140

A. Yes. 1

Q. All right. And that would apply to the 2

first amendment and the second amendment, right? 3

A. Yes. 4

Q. And so you probably read each of those 5

documents, what, a dozen times, a couple dozen times? 6

MR. ROBON: Are you 7

suggesting -- is that before or total 8

now? 9


can ask that question. That's a proper 11

question maybe for you to ask. 12


object. 14

You can answer. 15

THE WITNESS: Prior to him 16

signing it? 17


Q. I would hope that you did that. You're 19

representing him, you're getting paid a percentage of 20

his guaranteed annual -- 21

A. Prior to him signing it, I read it 22

multiple times. I can't define the exact number, but 23

it was more than one. 24

141

Q. More than 12? 1

A. I can't tell you the exact number, but I 2

read it multiple times. 3

Q. So thoroughly that you would have read 4

each and every word, punctuation and that in each and 5

every one of these contracts -- or amendments; is that 6

true? 7


THE WITNESS: Yes. 9




Q. Now, let me show you Brown Exhibit 58. 13

A. Uh-huh. 14

Q. I'll represent to you -- well, maybe you 15

can tell us. This was a provision that was in the 16

second amendment. 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. Do you see that? 19

A. Yes. 20

Q. Are you familiar with that provision? 21

A. Yes, I am. 22

Q. You wrote that provision did you not, or 23

participated in writing it?24

142

A. I participated. I can't remember whether 1

it was first put in by the University or suggested by 2

myself. I can't recall who first suggested it. 3

Q. All right. You would agree that the 4

products of the first amendment and second amendment, 5

so far as your involvement, that those were a joint 6

product between both you and Mr. Rodriguez's other 7

team members and the University's. These were joint 8

contracts put together and authored generally by both 9

parties; is that -- is that a fair statement? 10

A. When I define -- what I would define both 11

parties as myself, other representatives of 12

Rich Rodriguez, Rich Rodriguez himself. 13

Q. And himself. 14

A. And on the other side, it would be a 15

group of individuals that all at one time 16

participated, whether it be Tom Dorer or Alex or Eddie 17

Pastilong or Mike Garrison or Craig Walker or the 18

Governor or Steve Goodwin -- 19

Q. Okay. 20

A. -- or Steve Farmer. 21

Q. The Governor didn't put any language in 22

here, did he? 23

A. Not that I'm aware of.24

143

Q. Have you ever talked to our Governor? 1

A. I've met him and been introduced to him 2

and talked to him a few times. 3

Q. Did you ever negotiate a contract with a 4

governor, or in this case with the Governor? 5

A. Not directly. 6

Q. Okay. Have you ever received 7

correspondence from the Governor? Is that something 8

you communicate and somehow negotiate provisions -- 9

A. No. 10

Q. -- from the Governor? You know the 11

Governor, you know he's also a friend of your 12

customer, Mr. Rodriguez, right? 13

A. And he's also a friend of Eddie 14

Pastilong's and -- 15

Q. Probably a friend of a lot of people to 16

get elected. 17

A. Yep, uh-huh. 18

Q. All right. The point I'm trying to make, 19

Mr. Brown, when you get an insurance contract in the 20

mail for your car, they just send you a contract and 21

Erie or Allstate or State Farm, they send it to you, a 22

contract, and you take it or leave it. 23

A. Uh-huh. 24

144

Q. You understand. 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. You have cars and you have insurance 3

policies you've seen before where you don't 4

participate in the actual contract language. 5


Q. All right. This particular amendment is 7

the product of both parties, you would suggest 8

something, other members of the team on Rodriguez's 9

side would suggest things, the University would 10

suggest things, and it was a joint product between the 11

two of them basically; is that right? 12

A. Yes, uh-huh. 13

Q. Yes? 14

A. Yes. 15

Q. Okay. This particular provision says 16

renegotiation, is that something that you had 17

suggested initially for the second amendment? 18

A. I can't recall whether I suggested or 19

whether the university suggested it. 20

Q. All right. And what it says is that the 21

parties will sit down if there is a BCS championship 22

game -- 23

A. Uh-huh.24

145

Q. -- and the parties would sit down and 1

talk in good faith about the contract, what's the 2

status of it, with no obligations on either side, 3

other than to sit down and talk? 4

A. Yes. 5

Q. Is that fair to say? 6

A. Uh-huh. 7

Q. All right. Just that we'll have some 8

meeting and then we can talk with things, but nobody 9

was obligated with this provision to actually agree to 10

anything? 11


Q. Okay. And do you see your customer's 13

initials there, is that Mr. Rodriguez's initials, RAR? 14

A. I believe it is. 15

Q. Okay. And so Mr. Rodriguez signed off 16

and took that provision to even renegotiate the August 17

24th, 2007, second amendment; is that true? 18

A. He did. 19

Q. And you knew about that? 20

A. Yes. It was a product of the discussions 21

with Mike Garrison and Craig Walker in that meeting 22

where, after Mike Garrison promised that he would 23

review the contract and the status of the program in 24

146

December and January, Rich and everyone in the room 1

agreed based on that promise by Mike Garrison that he 2

was going to reevaluate the contract, the fairness and 3

that, in December, January time frame, which I believe 4

is mentioned in Mike Wilcox's e-mail summarizing it, 5

we all agreed there was no need to even have this 6

provision remain in there. 7

Q. Because the men agreed at that time that 8

they were going to look at things and they would keep 9

their eye on the contract, basically, with no firm 10

understanding as to what would or would not be done; 11

is that fair? 12

A. That's incorrect. 13

Q. Well, that's what this provision says. 14

A. As far as when you say provision -- in 15

the contract, what was agreed upon then were there 16

were promises made by Craig Walker and Mike Garrison, 17

that I asked Mike Garrison in that meeting, How are 18

you going to judge the progress of putting those 19

things in, and even covered and got into the 20

performance of the athletic director. 21

I asked him, because they talked about 22

cultural change and things they were going to do. And 23

so I asked Mike Garrison, I said, Mike, how are you 24

147

going to measure progress and whether or not these 1

promises you made got put in. I said, Are you going 2

to metric system, is it going to be year, year and a 3

half. 4

He got real mad. He got up from the 5

table and said, I'm the president of the University. 6

If this thing's not done by December or January, I'll 7

change the athletic director. 8

And so that conversation led into an 9

agreement, made by everyone there, that -- and so Mike 10

Wilcox said to Garrison, he said, So you're willing to 11

sit down in December and January and reevaluate the 12

contract from A to Z, the fairness of it, the buyout, 13

the progress of the promises, whether they're being 14

inserted or not, the cooperation of the athletic 15

director and the cultural change and that. 16

So as part of that, everyone sitting 17

there decided, Hey, there's no need to have this 18

renegotiation clause in there because Mike Garrison 19

promised he was going to sit down and review all 20

aspects of the fairness of the contract and the status 21

of the promises that he made to Rich Rodriguez that 22

day to entice Rich to sign the contract. 23

Q. And as smart as you are, Mr. Brown, and 24

148

all the expertise you have as this big sports agent 1

representing people, you didn't have an agreement on 2

anything that your own people mention in here, did 3

you? 4

A. No, there was no agreement. There were 5

verbal promises made by Mike Garrison, which at this 6

time I feel were fraudulently put out there, because 7

he had no intention to follow up on them. 8

Q. And you understand even the renegotiation 9

of this agreement was taken out in that provision, and 10

that was done in your presence, too, was it not? 11

A. It was agreed to in my presence. I 12

believe afterwards, I do not remember witnessing Eddie 13

Pastilong signing it, and I don't remember Rich -- 14

ever witnessing Rich Rodriguez put his initials on it. 15

Q. But those are his initials, to the best 16

of your knowledge? 17

A. To the best of my knowledge. 18

Q. You aren't alleging that's some forgery 19

or anything? 20

A. No, I'm not alleging that. 21

Q. So you were present; you watched your 22

client put his signature on the second amendment, 23

agreed to it on August 24, 2007, you were actually 24

149

physically present watching him sign this agreement 1

that has this provision that there's no other 2

understandings or verbal agreements whatsoever and 3

everything has to be in writing. 4



Q. You were present at that time, were you 7

not? 8



Q. You were present. 11

A. I was present, yes, I was. 12

Q. You watched your client actually sign the 13

agreement, right? 14

A. Yes, I did. 15

Q. Did he ever ask you for your approval? 16

A. Prior to the meeting, he did. 17

Q. No, at the meeting, did he ever ask you? 18

A. At the meeting? 19

Q. Yes, sir. 20

A. He didn't ask for my approval. 21

Q. Did you run over and try to stop him from 22

signing the agreement? 23

A. No.24

150

Q. He appeared sane at the time, didn't he? 1

A. Yes. 2

Q. He was not under any disability 3

whatsoever, was he? 4

A. Huh-uh. 5

Q. That's a no, he was not? 6

A. No, he was under no disability, to my 7

knowledge. 8

Q. His wife was there also? 9

A. Rita was there. 10

Q. Was Mr. Wilcox there? 11

A. Mr. Wilcox was there. 12

Q. So four members of your team were there, 13

right? 14

A. At that point in time, I was thinking 15

that we were all one team, but evidently we weren't. 16

But, yes, there were four members of our team there. 17

Q. When you're saying that you were not all 18

the same team, are you excluding Mr. Wilcox after 19

having seen his -- 20

A. No, no. No, what I was talking about was 21

Mike Garrison and Craig Walker, I thought we were all 22

on the same page, and they got up and shook hands, and 23

I even got an e-mail at the end where it says -- 24

151

Q. Excuse me one second. 1

MR. ROBON: Let him finish his 2

answer. 3

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: He's 4

not going to ramble on making speeches. 5

He's going to answer questions here 6

today. 7

THE WITNESS: Uh-huh. 8


objection. 10


Q. Was your team present of Wilcox, you, Mr. 12

and Mrs. Rodriguez at that time? 13

A. Yes. 14

Q. All right. Any other members of your 15

team, the Rodriguez so-called team? 16

A. There was Rich, Rita, Mike Wilcox and 17

myself sitting in the meeting. Do you want me to draw 18

you a map of where everyone was sitting? 19

Q. No, I don't think you need to do that. 20

A. Okay. 21

Q. I don't think -- I'm not sure that we 22

need that. 23

A. All right. 24

152

Q. Would you like to do something like that? 1

A. I mean, I have a vivid memory of that 2

meeting that day. 3

Q. Okay. My question is would you like to 4

draw something or -- 5

A. No -- yeah. I tell you what, I would. 6

Q. Okay. 7

A. I can tell you exactly that day. 8

Q. Mr. Brown, would you -- you're going to 9

take -- 10

A. Okay. 11

Q. I'll give you a piece of paper. 12

A. Give me a piece of paper. 13

Q. Or maybe Mr. Robon. Is there some -- 14

some reason you need to draw -- 15

A. No, I don't want -- I just want you to 16

realize the vivid memory and where everyone was 17

sitting and the three-and-a-half hours that went 18

through that meeting and -- 19

Q. Have you heard anybody ask the question 20

about where everyone was seated here? 21

A. No. 22

Q. Okay. Let's just stick to the answers to 23

the questions, could you do that with no problem?24

153

A. I can do that for you. 1

Q. All right. Okay. Now, have you had 2

experience in liquidated damage clauses before? 3

A. Define "experience." 4

Q. Well, if you don't know what that word 5

means, that's okay. We can skip to the next question. 6

Do you have -- have you had any 7

experience in notifying individuals of breaches of 8

contracts in writing? Have you ever had any 9

experience with that, on writing provisions like that? 10

A. I've never had to do that before. 11

Q. Do you have any experience in writing 12

legal provisions like that in contracts or approving 13

of legal provisions in contracts that provide that? 14

A. As far as liquidated damages, 15

notifications -- 16

Q. No, no. No, no one asked you. The 17

question had to do with notice provisions and 18

breaches, Mr. Brown. 19

A. All right. 20

Q. Stick to the question. 21


answer. 23


154

Q. Do you have any experience in writing, 1

drafting or approving those types of languages? 2

A. Yes. 3

Q. You have a great deal of experience in 4

that, don't you? 5

A. I would say -- as you said, I'm very 6

meticulous. 7

Q. Uh-huh. 8

A. And so, you know, I look at all the 9

clauses very carefully. And so, you know, I'm very -- 10

I read over, and, yes, I -- I am fully aware of any 11

contract that's entered into, what that language is 12

and what the requirements are. 13

Q. Do you have a written notice to West 14

Virginia University that they have breached any aspect 15

of any contract with Rich Rodriguez? 16

A. No, I do not. 17

Q. How about your Rodriguez team, Wilcox, 18

Mr. and Mrs. Rodriguez, Speyer -- 19


Q. -- Metz -- 21


MR. ROBON: Show an objection. 23


155

Q. So is it fair to say that, to your 1

knowledge, nobody from your side of the table has ever 2

given written notice to West Virginia that they had 3

any type of material or substantial breach of an 4

agreement with Mr. Rodriguez? 5


THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware 7

of. 8


Q. Does the contract require that, the 10

second amendment that you approved? 11

A. According to the contract, yes. 12

Q. Did you ever request that that language 13

be removed from the contract? 14

A. No, I did not. 15

Q. And do you understand what the purpose of 16

those types of provisions are? 17

A. Yes, it's to give the other side time to 18

correct the issue. But in Rich's case -- 19

Q. My question is did you -- do you know 20

what those provisions are for? 21

MR. ROBON: Can you let him 22

finish the answer, please? 23

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: No, 24

156

I'm not -- I'm not going to let him 1

ramble on, which I know -- I guess you're 2

objecting and want him to do that. 3

MR. ROBON: I don't want him to 4

ramble, I want him to finish answering -- 5

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Excuse 6

me, Mr. Robon. Can I speak in reference 7

to your objection? 8

The question was as to whether 9

he had any -- knew the purpose of that. 10

I didn't ask him about Mr. Rodriguez. 11

MR. ROBON: The purpose of what? 12

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Of 13

those provisions. 14

MR. ROBON: And he answered 15

that. 16


is fine. 18

MR. ROBON: But he hasn't 19

finished his answer. 20


Q. Okay. Finish your answer as to that 22

question, as to the purpose of those types of clauses. 23

A. The purpose of those types of clauses are 24

157

to give the other party ample time to correct what, if 1

they agreed is a breach or an issue, to get it 2

corrected within a certain amount of time. 3

Q. So the contract can survive, assuming the 4

two parties fix whatever seems to be a breach; is that 5

right? 6


Q. All right. That's because people want 8

the contracts to continue to survive for whatever 9

benefit it is to his or her client or to whatever 10

party it is? 11

A. Well, in most cases, that is the case, 12

but in the case of Rich Rodriguez and West Virginia, 13

that turned out not to be the case. 14

Q. Well, Mr. Rodriguez never fulfilled that 15

provision in the contract in giving written notice to 16

West Virginia on any breach, did he? 17

A. No, because on December 15th, after his 18

meeting with Craig Walker and Eddie Pastilong and in 19

the follow-on one with Mike Garrison, and the fact 20

that they told him they were not going to honor the 21

verbal promises made in the contract, that there was 22

really no need to follow on. 23

And, you know, since then, I've even 24

158

found out that Ken Kendrick had a conversation that 1

Saturday with Craig Walker, prior to meeting with 2

Rich Rodriguez, and Craig Walker even told 3

Ken Kendrick at that time that the University had no 4

intention of, on that day, telling Rich Rodriguez that 5

they were going to follow up on the -- that they were 6

going to execute the verbal promises made to him on 7

August 24th. Ken Kendrick told me that Craig Walker 8

said to him prior to a meeting with Rich that the 9

University is not going to honor those verbal promises 10

that were made to him. 11

And since, since I found out in 12

conversations with Larry Aschebrook that there was a 13

meeting in mid October with Larry Aschebrook and 14

Russ Sharp and Eddie Pastilong where Larry Aschebrook 15

had knowledge of those promises made on August 24th, 16

and Larry Aschebrook brought up to Eddie Pastilong and 17

Russ Sharp, Here are the promises that were made to 18

Rich, are you going to execute them. 19

And Ed Pastilong and Russ Sharp told 20

Larry Aschebrook, No, we aren't going to honor those 21

promises. 22

So in hindsight, I look back and say, in 23

a way, the University verbally stated among itself 24

159

more than 30 days prior to December the 15th that they 1

weren't going to honor the verbal promises that were 2

made, which induced -- that induced Rich Rodriguez to 3

sign the contract on August 24th. 4

Q. That's your story now as to why you 5

didn't send it, right? 6

A. Pardon me? 7

Q. That's why you didn't send the written 8

notice; is that right? 9

A. The -- 10


A. What's the question again? 12

Q. You didn't send the written notice 13

required by the contract, did you? 14

A. I never sent a written notice required by 15

the contract. 16

Q. And neither did Rodriguez? 17

A. Neither did Rodriguez. 18

Q. Neither did anybody from his team of all 19

these advisors, did they? 20

A. That's -- that's correct. 21

Q. All right. And so -- 22

A. But -- but -- but -- 23

Q. You made that decision --24

160

A. But what we have learned since then -- 1

Q. Whoa, whoa, whoa -- 2

MR. ROBON: Let him -- 3

THE WITNESS: What we have 4

learned since then is that the -- 5


Q. Mr. Brown, the question was, Did you send 7

it? 8

A. Uh-huh. No, I did not. 9

Q. All right. It's a simple question. You 10

can answer the question. Can you do that? 11

A. I can answer questions. 12

Q. Okay. All right. Now, did you -- you 13

were the person responsible for that as his agent, 14

weren't you? 15

A. Yes, I am. 16

Q. Have you notified any malpractice carrier 17

or claims person that you didn't send the written 18

notice as required by this contract for a breach? 19


I instruct you not to answer 21

that question. 22


have to answer the question. 24

161

MR. WAKEFIELD: On what basis? 1

MR. ROBON: On the basis that 2

that's something that -- whether he has 3

malpractice insurance -- 4


Answer the question, Mr. Brown. 6

MR. ROBON: -- or not, I think 7

that's irrelevant in this case. 8


Q. Have you notified any claims person? You 10

have to answer the question. 11

MR. ROBON: You can answer that 12

question. 13

Go ahead. 14


Robon, first of all, you don't represent 16

Mr. Brown, or do you, today? 17

THE WITNESS: No, I have not 18

sent a claim in. 19


Q. Okay. Have you told Coach Rodriguez that 21

you screwed up and didn't send a notice, written 22

notice? 23


162


Q. Have you guys had discussion about that? 2

A. We've never had discussion on that 3

subject. 4

Q. Do you plan on informing him that you 5

failed to file a written notice on his behalf if you 6

were going to even allege that there was some type of 7

breach of contract? 8


Q. Do you have some plans to inform him at 10

some time in the near future that you failed to file a 11

written notice as required by the contract if 12

allegations of breach of contract were being made 13

against West Virginia? 14


THE WITNESS: I've never had 16

that discussion with Rich in regards to 17

this specific incident; but I have had 18

discussions with him as we were going 19

through the fall and into December of the 20

verbal promises that were not made -- 21


Q. Mr. Brown, I didn't ask you that. My 23

question is do you plan on telling him in the 24

163

future -- 1

MR. ROBON: He's -- let him 2

answer the question. 3


has to do with our future, Mr. Robon, so 5

I think you're encouraging the witness to 6

be non-responsive in the questions. 7

MR. ROBON: I just want him to 8

be able -- 9


Q. Do you plan on telling him? 11

A. No. 12

Q. Okay. You've had those kind of contract 13

provisions before, too, have you not? 14

A. In regards to -- 15

Q. In other contracts. 16

A. -- liquidated damages? 17

Q. No, sir, just notice provision as to 18

breach so that people would have an opportunity to 19

cure it? 20

A. Yes. 21

Q. Now, we have before you the contract, 22

first amendment and the second amendment. 23

A. Uh-huh.24

164

Q. You first felt that West Virginia was in 1

breach of contract in the fall of '07; is that true? 2

A. Rich and I had discussions as -- 3

Q. Is that true? Was it the fall of '07 4

that you felt that West Virginia was in breach of the 5

contract? 6

A. I was starting to raise concerns that 7

they were getting to that point. 8

Q. When do you feel West Virginia breached 9

this contract with Mr. Rodriguez? 10

A. On Saturday, December the 15th when he 11

went in and met with Mike Garrison in one meeting, and 12

then with Craig Walker and Eddie Pastilong in another. 13

Q. That -- hold it. The question was the 14

date, when. 15

A. December the 15th. 16

Q. That's the question, Mr. Brown, is when. 17


Q. All right. Now, on December the 15th, 19

that's the first time you felt West Virginia was in 20

breach of the contract; is that right? 21

A. Yes. 22

Q. Okay. And I take it from your 23

discussions with Rodriguez that it was also his 24

165

opinion at that time? 1

A. Yes. 2

Q. And was there anyone else that 3

participated in that decision as to -- you allege the 4

breach by West Virginia was made on December 15th, 5

anybody else participate in that decision? 6

A. Not that I can recall. 7

Q. How many days before that had you 8

contacted the University of Michigan? 9


THE WITNESS: I contacted -- 11


THE WITNESS: I contacted 13

University of Michigan on Tuesday, 14

December 11th. 15


Q. So you had already been in contact with 17

the University of Michigan four days before this 18

decision was made that you allege they breached -- you 19

and Rodriguez allege West Virginia breached the 20

contract; is that correct? 21


Q. What negotiations had you had or 23

Rodriguez had before December 15th with University of 24

166

Michigan about the coaching position? 1


You can answer. 3

THE WITNESS: What do you define 4

as "negotiations"? 5


Q. Let me just say this: If you, as this 7

big sports agent, coach agent or whatever, don't know 8

what "negotiations" are, I'll skip the question. We 9

can move on. Just tell everybody you don't know what 10

that means. 11


characterization of "big sports agent." 13


Q. Go ahead. 15

A. The negotiations -- Coach Rodriguez was 16

offered a contract -- or offered the job on Friday, 17

December the 14th. At that time, Bill Martin, the 18

University of Michigan athletic director, presented me 19

with a term sheet. 20

Q. Had you talked to Mr. Martin, or did this 21

thing just come in the mail, perchance, from the 22

University of Michigan on the 14th? 23

A. I had had discussions with Bill Martin in 24

167

regards to just basically salary range if this thing 1

ever went down the road in regards to a formal offer 2

being made. 3

Q. Who contacted Martin? 4

A. In regards to? I told you I contacted 5

Bill Martin on Tuesday, December the 11th. 6

Q. Did you know Bill Martin personally? 7

A. I did not. 8

Q. Was that the first time you ever talked 9

to Athletic Director Bill Martin? 10

A. Tuesday, December the 11th. 11

Q. That was the first time? 12

A. Yes. 13

Q. Called him by phone? 14

A. Called him by phone. 15

Q. Told him you had a coach? 16

A. I called and left a message for -- when I 17

called, he did not answer -- his assistant took a 18

message. And I told him who I was, and who I 19

represented, and I would like to speak with him. And 20

that was around 11:00 or something, I would say, in 21

the morning. 22

Q. So you were shopping Coach Rodriguez out 23

on the 11th of December of '07 when he had a contract 24

168

with West Virginia that obligated him to stay there 1

until 2014? 2


characterization. 4

THE WITNESS: I wasn't shopping. 5

I called Bill Martin to ask him what the 6

status of the coaching search was. 7


Q. How did Rodriguez's name come into this 9

thing, then, if you were just calling, I guess as a -- 10

just somebody inquiring in case one of your other 11

personnel would be involved? 12

A. No. I had a conversation with Bill, 13

and -- when we called back. And I asked him what the 14

status was, and I asked him if he would be -- if he 15

might -- 16

Q. Be interested in Rich Rodriguez? 17

A. In Rich Rodriguez as a candidate. 18

Q. Now, you knew there was a contract that 19

was binding on Rich Rodriguez until the year 2014, 20

didn't you? 21


THE WITNESS: I knew that. 23


169

Q. So why are you calling other 1

universities, Mr. Brown, on December 11th shopping 2

your client -- you customer around? 3


Characterization of "shopping." 5

THE WITNESS: Do you want an 6

answer? 7


Q. I sure hope so. 9

A. Because Rich and Rita had felt they had 10

hit the end of the road with being able to continue to 11

coach at West Virginia. 12

Q. Right? 13

A. The verbal promises that had been made on 14

August the 24th had not -- no sign of them being met. 15

They had had conversations with Mike Garrison and 16

Craig Walker in regards to, you know, Are we going to 17

have the follow-up meeting in December. 18

I had a conversation with Coach Rodriguez 19

on Friday, that would be December the 7th, where he 20

expressed his displeasure with the University; he 21

expressed the deteriorating relationship with 22

Ed Pastilong, the fact that they had rarely spoken 23

during the year; that Ed had made -- I still haven't 24

170

got it exactly clarified yet, but made a statement to 1

Rich the week after the Pitt game that really Rich did 2

not take kindly to; and, again, the fact that there 3

was -- it appeared that they were not going to follow 4

up on the promises made on August the 24th. 5

I had another conversation with Rich on 6

December the 10th, on a Monday. He was still in the 7

office there. We went through, and again, I -- he 8

talked about how dysfunctional it was, how hard it was 9

to continue to coach in that environment; again, they 10

weren't going to make up the promises -- or follow 11

through on the promises made. 12

And I had a conversation with Rita on 13

Tuesday morning, December the 11th, at which time, you 14

know, she expressed, you know, how they just did not 15

feel that there was a situation where they could go on 16

there in regards to the breach, they would continue to 17

try to make it work -- 18

Q. On what date did you say? 19


Q. 11th? 21

A. Tuesday morning. And so based on that, I 22

did what any other agent would do representing his 23

client when you have such a great job as Michigan is 24

171

open, with its tradition; the fact that they have a 1

great president and athletic director; and they 2

give -- people earn their degrees there instead of 3

giving them out for free. So, you know, I -- 4

Q. What did that mean? Who's talk -- are 5

you here just to try to blast West Virginia? I take 6

it you don't like West Virginia, right? 7

A. No, I'm just saying what's facts in the 8

newspaper. 9

Q. What's that have to do with this? 10

A. No, I'm just saying about -- 11

Q. What's that have to do with this question 12

that I asked you about, what you talked about? 13


Argumentative. Let him finish his 15

answer. 16


You're just rambling on. 18

THE WITNESS: I'm not -- 19

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: If 20

you want to badmouth -- 21

THE WITNESS: So -- so -- 22


can do that outside here with other 24

172

people -- 1

THE WITNESS: So -- so -- 2


but you aren't going to do it here. 4

THE WITNESS: So I'll go on and 5

answer the question. 6

MR. WAKEFIELD: Please do. 7

Please do. 8

THE WITNESS: So based -- so 9

based on that, and the -- and the 10

feelings and the facts of the case at 11

West Virginia, I placed a call to 12

Bill Martin at University of Michigan. 13


Q. On December 11th? 15

A. December 11th. 16

Q. All right. 17

A. Tuesday. 18

Q. And what other schools had you talked to 19

before December 11th? 20

A. What other schools I had talked to? 21

Q. Yes. Did you talk to Arkansas? 22

A. I had one conversation with the athletic 23

director at Arkansas.24

173

Q. And when did you shop him to Arkansas, 1

December 9th? 2

MR. ROBON: Objection on the 3

characterization. 4

THE WITNESS: I can't exactly 5

recall. I just made a call -- 6


Q. Who did you talk to? 8

A. Jeff Long, the athletic director there. 9

Q. Jeff who? 10

A. Jeff Long, the athletic director. 11

Q. You knew that Arkansas was looking for a 12

head coach at that time? 13

A. I did. 14

Q. And so you pick up the phone, as the 15

representative of Rich Rodriguez, and called Arkansas, 16

right, on December 9th? Did you or did you not? 17

A. I can't recall what day it was. 18

Q. You contacted them? 19

A. I contacted Jeff Long. 20

Q. All right. And what did you tell 21

Mr. Jeff Long? 22

A. I had a -- just asked him how his 23

coaching search was going. He and Rich knew each 24

174

other since he was the AD at Pitt, and -- 1

Q. Did you ask if he was interested in 2

Rich Rodriguez as being the potential coach there? 3

A. I can't recall the exact words, but we 4

had a conversation in regards to the position opening, 5

and we talked about Rich a little bit. He told me he 6

knew Rich and the background and that. 7

And I believe after that, he placed a 8

call to Rich, they had a short conversation; I believe 9

Rich, in fact, told the president about it, and said 10

he wasn't interested -- 11

Q. Did you give Arkansas Rodriguez's phone 12

number? 13


Q. Did you send any e-mails to Arkansas? 15


Q. So the only conversation you had was with 17

this athletic director, Jeff Long? 18


Q. And you told him that Rich Rodriguez may 20

be interested in the Arkansas position? 21

A. I didn't say he might be interested. I 22

just wanted to know what the status was. 23

Q. So you just happened to pick up the phone 24

175

on December 9th just to find out how Arkansas was 1

doing on their coaching search? Is that what you're 2

telling us? Is that what you're testifying under 3

oath, sir? 4

A. I called and asked them how their 5

coaching search was going; and I told them I 6

represented Rich and I just wanted to see how the 7

coaching search was going and -- 8

Q. You asked if they were interested in 9

Rich Rodriguez, didn't you, generally? 10


Q. That's the only reason you would be 12

placing the call. You had a client, and you were 13

trying to shop him around at that time. 14

MR. ROBON: Customer. 15


Q. He's a customer, right. That's right, 17

he's not a client, he's a customer. 18

Is that right, you were trying to find 19

out if you could land another deal for him that he may 20

be interested in? 21

A. No. One of the things I was doing was 22

just finding out what the status of the coaching 23

search was. It was just a very preliminary thing. I 24

176

had talked with people about the job there at 1

Arkansas. I was doing my due diligence on an opening 2

like that, and found -- 3

Q. Let me ask you why would you be searching 4

and doing what you call due diligence when 5

Rich Rodriguez had a contract for a period of seven 6

more years in place at that time? Why were you 7

calling these other folks? 8

A. Because in working with Rich Rodriguez 9

and Rita, there were big issues at West Virginia 10

that -- that I was -- my evaluation was it was a 11

marriage that was headed down the wrong road because 12

of promises and that that were made by Mike Garrison 13

and Craig Walker that weren't being fulfilled, a 14

dysfunctional management situation between the 15

Governor, Eddie Pastilong, the Board of Governors, and 16

the administration, it had gotten to the point where 17

for my client -- I thought it was in my client's best 18

interest that when an opportunity came up, it needed 19

to be examined. 20


Two-hour question. 22

MR. ROBON: Can you wait for one 23

minute while I run to the potty. Off 24

177

camera for a second. 1

Our VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going 2

off the record at 12:10 p.m. 3



Q. Mr. Brown, we want to try to get through 6

today, okay? 7

A. That's fine. 8

Q. I'm sure you do, too. Or maybe you enjoy 9

this, we can come back an extra day if you want. 10

I'm interested in the contacts that we've 11

been talking about. We have on December -- just so I 12

know, December 9, 2007, you initiated the phone call 13

to Arkansas's athletic director. 14

A. I can't remember exactly what date it 15

was. 16

Q. It was before you initiated the call to 17

Billy Martin at Michigan, though; is that true? 18

A. Yes. 19

Q. So -- and that call took place the 11th, 20

you told us? 21

A. Yeah. 22

Q. Now -- 23

A. You know, it couldn't have been the 9th, 24

178

because the 9th was a Sunday, right? 1

Q. I don't know. Evidently, you've checked 2

already -- 3

A. No. I'm just looking back as -- it 4

wasn't the 9th. 5

Q. So it may have been as early as the 7th 6

or 5th of December? 7

A. Yeah. I would say it was during the 8

workweek. 9

Q. Okay. So it was probably, then, before 10

December 9th you contacted Arkansas? 11

A. Yeah. 12

Q. Okay. Prior to Arkansas, since the time 13

you represented Mr. Rodriguez -- which you told me was 14

in the summer of '05. 15

A. Uh-huh. 16


A. Uh-huh. 18

MR. WAKEFIELD: You have to say 19

yes or no. 20



Q. And since the summer of '05, what other 23

schools have you talked to concerning -- which in any 24

179

way related to Mr. Rodriguez as a football coach where 1

there was a potential opening? 2


answer. 4

THE WITNESS: What other 5

schools? There was LSU and Alabama. 6


Q. Did you ever contact any of the North 8

Carolina schools, make a call? 9

A. I cannot recall. I believe I did not 10

contact the schools in North Carolina. 11

Q. Did you have someone else contact them 12

and make an inquiry on your behalf to see if there was 13

an opening potentially available for Mr. Rodriguez 14

from one of the Carolina schools? 15

A. No, I did not, that I can recall. 16

Q. So your testimony under oath is that 17

nobody, to your knowledge, on behalf of Rich Rodriguez 18

contacted any Carolina school for purposes of 19

potential of any coaching position, including South 20

Carolina and North Carolina both? 21

A. Carolina schools? 22

Q. Yes, sir. 23

A. The schools directly? 24

180

Q. Directly or indirectly, any way that you 1

did, through another person. 2

A. I did have a conversation with Chuck 3

Neinas, who was representing North Carolina in their 4

search. 5

Q. All right. When was that? 6

A. That would have been in -- 7


You can answer. 9

THE WITNESS: That would have 10

been in November of '06. 11


Q. Okay. Right before the Alabama contacts? 13

A. Yes. 14

Q. All right. And this -- it was Chuck -- 15

A. Neinas. 16

Q. Neinas? 17


Q. And what was -- 19

A. That's spelled N-e-i-n-a-s. 20

Q. N-e-i-n-e-s? 21

A. a-s. 22

Q. a-s? 23

A. Uh-huh. 24

181

Q. All right. And what was Mr. Neinas's 1

position with North Carolina? 2

A. Mr. Neinas is -- has a search firm that 3

most schools -- well, not most schools, but schools 4

hire when they're conducting a coaching search to -- 5

when they're conducting a coaching search to do the 6

upfront investigative work, et cetera, actually 7

contact the coaches to see if they might have an 8

interest. It's -- 9

Q. True headhunter-type position? 10

A. For -- acting on behalf of the 11

universities, yes. 12

Q. They would represent the university's 13

interest and go out and look for people that may fill 14

the vacancy? 15

A. Come back with a recommended list of 16

candidates to interview and that. 17

Q. Okay. And that had to do with a position 18

that was open at North Carolina University, at that 19

time? 20


Q. And that was November of '06? 22

A. Of '06, correct. 23

Q. Do you recall the day at all, was it near 24

182

Thanksgiving or anything, in '06? 1

A. I can't recall the day. 2

Q. All right. Did you call Mr. Neinas or 3

did he contact you? 4

A. I called Mr. Neinas. 5

Q. All right. And did you know Mr. Neinas 6

before that day? 7

A. Before that day? 8

Q. Yes, sir. 9


Q. All right. What -- what precipitated you 11

in calling Mr. Neinas? Did you hear that, had he 12

given information that he may be looking for some 13

candidates to fill the North Carolina position through 14

his office? 15

A. Someone at -- I've been told, I can't 16

remember by who, that North Carolina had hired 17

Mr. Neinas to handle their search. 18

Q. And was Rich Rodriguez the only head 19

coach that you were talking about at that time? 20

A. Yes. 21

Q. What did you generally talk about? 22

A. I -- 23


183

You can answer. 1

THE WITNESS: I confirmed that 2

he was going to be -- that he was -- that 3

he was working -- 4


Q. Looking for candidates? 6

A. Looking for candidates, and had a 7

discussion with him about the job position there; and 8

based on the buyout and also, too, he informed me that 9

they had a preferred candidate that they had targeted 10

in on, I believe even before they terminated the 11

previous head coach there, that they were going to go 12

after. 13

Q. Okay. So for two reasons, then, you 14

didn't have further communication with him: The first 15

was that they had somebody they thought was already 16

being looked at pretty closely; and secondly, one of 17

the contract provisions, the liquidated damage, or 18

what you refer to as a buyout clause you felt was 19

unacceptable to your customer, Mr. Rodriguez? 20

A. No. That the University of North 21

Carolina felt that they -- they did not want to pay or 22

be involved in any buyouts -- 23

Q. All right. 24

184

A. -- in regards to hiring a new candidate. 1

And the person they hired was Butch Davis, who came 2

from the NFL where there were no buyouts or that 3

involved. He was unemployed at the time. 4

Q. Who was it, the candidate? 5

A. Butch Davis. 6

Q. All right. And he got the position? 7

A. He got the position. 8

Q. And you had indicated that one of the 9

provisions was you were -- on behalf of Mr. Rodriguez, 10

you insisted that they would have to pay his 11

liquidated damage clause? 12

A. No, I never insisted on that, but he -- 13

Q. But you inquired as to that? 14

A. No, I never even inquired of that. 15

Chuck Neinas made a statement, that the University of 16

North Carolina wanted to hire a coach that did not 17

have a current contract or anything with any buyout 18

provisions. And basically, it makes sense now, 19

because they had already decided who they were going 20

to hire. 21

Q. All right. Let me see if I have this 22

right, then, from a timing standpoint. 23

You had just participated in months of 24

185

negotiation in advising and guiding Rodriguez to sign 1

the June of '06 contract, which is called the first 2

amendment. 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. Is that right? 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. Yes? 7

A. Yes. 8

Q. And within five months after that, you 9

were on the phone talking to one of these agencies 10

that looks for coaches; you initiate the call and call 11

them about your client Rich Rodriguez within five 12

months? 13

A. Yes. 14

Q. All right. Now, the contract at that 15

point, the first amendment, as I recall, was an 16

agreement that Rodriguez would have to stay on as the 17

coach through the year 2013. Were you aware of that? 18

A. Yes. 19

Q. And there was a liquidated damage clause 20

also in that first amendment at that time? 21

A. Yes. 22

Q. Why were you looking for another position 23

for Rich Rodriguez in November after having just gone 24

186

through months of negotiations? The guy was 1

contracted to be our coach until 2013. 2



Q. Why were you looking for other positions 5

for Rodriguez? 6


answer. 8

THE WITNESS: I was doing my due 9

diligence as a sports representative 10

looking at various potential 11

opportunities, knowing what the market 12

is. 13

And, you know, it's like any 14

executive: You know, you sit there and 15

jobs come up at another place, you always 16

have an interest and want to know what 17

the -- what the status is. 18


Q. So basically, one of your functions, 20

then, through all this representation with Rodriguez 21

was you were looking for better opportunities to 22

present to him, which would allow him to leave West 23

Virginia if you and he decided there were better 24

187

opportunities out there? 1

A. It wouldn't be my decision. It would 2

be -- it would be his decision. 3

Q. He's the final decision-maker always. 4


Q. Just like on the contract, despite what 6

you said or anyone else said, he makes the final 7

decision. 8


Q. But you were looking for other positions 10

that you felt may be more financially rewarding to you 11

and him? 12


You can answer. 14

THE WITNESS: We never had 15

discussions about financially 16

rewarding. 17


Q. Well, that was the criteria you talked 19

about with this Chuck Neinas. One of the issues was 20

that if they weren't going to pay his liquidated 21

damage clause at West Virginia, that was -- that was a 22

stumbling block right from the beginning? 23

A. No, Chuck Neinas stated that they did 24

188

not -- that North Carolina did not want to deal or 1

have to deal with any coach that had any buyout 2

provision, that no -- regardless of who was going to 3

pay it, who was going to buy it or whatever, they had 4

set a parameter, I guess, in their search, I would 5

have surmised, that said this is -- these are the 6

criteria in blocks -- or within these criteria of the 7

candidates we were going to look at. 8

Q. Well, it wasn't the fact that there was 9

just a liquidated damage clause; it was the fact that 10

that would probably cost North Carolina more money in 11

those types of negotiations, because it's a financial 12

loss? 13

A. I can't speak on what the criteria was 14

for North Carolina as to how they made the decision. 15

Q. And you presented this, then, to 16

Rodriguez? Did you guys sit down and talk about, Hey, 17

there is at least an opening there, but it doesn't 18

look that great? 19


You can answer. 21

THE WITNESS: I can't recall. 22


Q. You can't recall whether you're out 24

189

talking about Rodriguez and a potential position, and 1

you didn't communicate that to your customer? 2

A. I can't recall if I had a conversation 3

with Rich after I had a conversation with 4

Chuck Neinas. 5

Q. Is there some reason you would not want 6

your customer to know that you were out looking for 7

other positions for him? 8

A. No. 9

Q. Did you call West Virginia and ask them 10

if it was okay if you made inquiries into other 11

opportunities for Rodriguez that would eventually 12

cause him to leave the University and his -- and these 13

contracts? 14


THE WITNESS: No, I'm not 16

required to. 17


Q. Did you figure out any plan or strategy 19

as to how you would get out of the liquidated damage 20

clause that was in the first amendment when you called 21

North Carolina at that time? 22


THE WITNESS: No, I didn't 24

190

figure it out. 1


Q. When did you figure that out? 3

A. Pardon? 4

Q. When did you figure that out, as to how 5

to get out of the liquidated damage clause so you 6

wouldn't have to -- 7



Q. -- you wouldn't have to pay that? 10


THE WITNESS: It never happened. 12

Nothing ever -- there was -- 13


Q. You never analyzed that? 15

A. No. 16

Q. You've never once, to this day, looked at 17

the liquidated damage clause to figure out ways to get 18

around it or to avoid it with Coach Rodriguez; is that 19

your testimony? 20

A. You asked me in regards to the North 21

Carolina job. 22

Q. Okay. And then I asked -- my next 23

question was when did you do that? You did that with 24

191

the Michigan analysis, basically, right? 1


You can answer. 3

THE WITNESS: I -- after 4

Saturday, December the 15th, when -- 5

when -- after Rich had those meetings 6

with Mike Garrison and Craig Walker, and 7

they said no to him, I had conversations 8

with Rich on that Sunday morning, and we 9

had no discussions at that time how we 10

were going to -- or how the buyout was 11

going to be addressed. 12

And I told Rich at that time 13

that I thought that West Virginia was in 14

breach and had committed fraud in the 15

contract by not fulfilling the verbal 16

promises, and that was on Sunday morning 17

at Rich's house. 18


Q. You said that -- the 15th of December? 20


Q. And you accused West Virginia of fraud on 22

December 15th? 23

A. I told Rich that, you know --24

192

Q. Just answer my question. Did you accuse 1

them of fraud on December 15th? 2

A. No, that would have been on Sunday, 3

December 16th. I made a mistake on my dates. 4

Q. So it wasn't until December 16th of '07 5

that you then accused West Virginia of fraud? 6

A. That I told -- 7


You can answer. 9

THE WITNESS: That I told Rich 10

the fact that Garrison -- 11


Q. Is that correct? Did you accuse West 13

Virginia of fraud on December 16th, 2007, for the 14

first time; is that what your testimony is? 15


THE WITNESS: Define "accuse" 17

and who am I talking about. 18


Q. Okay. I suspect in your business you've 20

heard the word "accuse" before, right? 21

A. Yes. 22

Q. Yes? 23

A. Yes.24

193

Q. Okay. So you know what it means? 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. Did you accuse and make the allegation 3

against West Virginia that they were guilty of fraud 4

on December 16th, 2007? 5


MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: For 7

the first time. 8


You can answer. 10

THE WITNESS: I can't recall. I 11

may have had some other instant -- 12

correspondence or discussions with them 13

in regards to earlier. 14

But if you're talking in regards 15

to other previous histories and issues 16

there, I can't -- I may have. I can't 17

recall. There may be some documentation, 18

I'm not sure. 19

But in regards to specifically 20

on Sunday, December the 16th, after Rich 21

told me what had happened the previous 22

day, I told Rich that West Virginia had 23

committed fraud on the contract by not 24

194

following through on the verbal promises 1

that they made to him to sign it. 2


Q. Is that the first recollection you have 4

of having made that statement as to accusing West 5

Virginia of fraud, December 16th, '07? 6

A. That's all I can at this time. This 7

thing goes back to this -- 8

Q. Is that a yes? 9

A. Say it again. 10

Q. Is that the first time -- 11

A. It's not my best recollection. 12

Q. Well, give me your worst recollection, 13

then, whatever you have. 14

A. There may have been some -- I believe 15

after the -- in -- in going through the first 16

amendment stuff with West Virginia, I believe I had 17

some correspondence with Tom Dorer and Ed Pastilong in 18

regard to actions there. 19

Q. That would have been when? 20

A. Probably would have been in 2006, 21

possibly. 22

Q. Before or after the first amendment? 23

A. After the first -- before or after the 24

195

first amendment? I can't recall. 1

Q. You can't recall whether there was -- you 2

allowed your client to sign the amendment after you 3

felt the University was guilty of fraud? 4



Q. Or your -- yeah, you're right, customer. 7

A. Say the question again. 8

Q. You, as the customer representative here 9

for Rodriguez, are you telling me you can't recall 10

whether you permitted your customer to sign the first 11

amendment written -- first amendment to the contract 12

after you felt the University had committed fraud; is 13

that your testimony? 14

A. No, I never -- I never -- if you were 15

going to go back and say the word "fraud," that means 16

I would have to send in a 30-day notice letter -- 17

Q. Because you knew that? 18

A. Yeah, because I never did that. 19

Q. Right. We understand you didn't do that. 20

But you knew, clear back then, if it happened, you had 21

to send that 30-day notice to cure to the University 22

for fraud or any breach, right? 23


196

Q. And you didn't do that back then in '06 1

when you were telling us that you believe that there 2

was some fraud committed? 3

A. I -- 4

MR. ROBON: Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5

Show an objection to the prior question 6

he answered so fast about notice of 7

fraud. I object to that question. 8

THE WITNESS: So what's the 9

question? 10


Q. You sent no notice at any time? 12

A. No, I never sent any notice. 13

Q. All right. Okay. Now -- okay. So now 14

we know that you contacted in November of '06 a person 15

who was being employed by North Carolina University 16

for looking for a football coach and had discussions 17

with him about Rich Rodriguez as a possible candidate 18

for that position? 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. Yes? 21

A. Yes. 22

Q. All right. What other schools in '06 did 23

you talk to, even just call, to see if there would be 24

197

any interest in potentially shopping Rodriguez, back 1

in '06? 2


You can answer. 4

THE WITNESS: In '06? 5


Q. Besides Carolina -- North Carolina? 7

A. I had a conversation with Skip Bertman, 8

the athletic director at LSU. 9

Q. Okay. His name is Skip. 10

A. Yeah. He's no longer the AD. He's 11

retired, I believe. Skip Bertman. 12

Q. Skip Burton? 13

A. Bertman, B-e-r-t-m-a-n. 14

Q. All right. Okay. Let's hold that LSU 15

here for a second. Tell me what month that was in 16

'06. 17

A. That would not have been -- excuse me. I 18

thought it was '06, but it would actually have been in 19

December of '05. 20

Q. December of '05? 21

A. Yeah. 22

Q. Okay. For LSU? 23

A. Yeah. It was a follow-up call. Rich had 24

198

received a call from a headhunter asking him some 1

questions in regards to the LSU job, and I just placed 2

a call to Skip to follow up on it and -- 3

Q. Okay. Hold one second. 4

A. Uh-huh. 5

Q. He needs to take a swap on the video. 6


record at 12:38 p.m. 8





Q. Mr. Brown, we were talking about LSU, and 13

you had contacted Skip Bertman, and I think you told 14

me that was around December of 2005. 15


Q. And how did you come about contacting 17

Mr. Bertman? 18

A. Rich had -- 19


objection. 21

THE WITNESS: Rich had contacted 22

me and told me that he had been contacted 23

by one of those search firms in regards 24

199

to -- what these search firms do, they 1

never state what job. They would call up 2

a coach and they have a list of set 3

questions they will go down and ask the 4

coach. 5

And Rich informed me that he had 6

had a call from somebody in regards to 7

that. And since LSU was the only job 8

open at that time, I thought I would 9

follow up and give Skip a call. I -- 10


Q. Well, let me -- hold on one second. Did 12

Mr. Rodriguez, after telling you that, did he request 13

that you call LSU and look into the job? 14

A. No, I did that on my own. 15

Q. Just on your own? 16


Q. Why were you doing that at that point 18

when you knew Coach Rodriguez had a contract that was 19

effective at that point in December of '05 until 2010? 20



Q. Why were you looking? 23

A. I wasn't looking. I was doing my 24

200

fiduciary duty as an agent. He had been contacted, 1

LSU is a premier job, so you always want to go find 2

out exactly what the circumstances are and -- 3

Q. Well, isn't West Virginia a premier job? 4

A. West Virginia is a very good job. 5

Q. It's a premier job? 6

A. It all depends on who you're looking at 7

it from. 8

Q. I'm looking at it from you, sir. You as 9

an agent, if it was a premier job, why are you looking 10

at LSU? 11

A. I never said it was a premier job. 12

Everyone had their opinion. 13

Q. Well, I'm asking your opinion, Mr. Brown. 14

Are you telling us you did not consider West Virginia 15

a premier job -- 16



Q. -- in '05, that you were going out 19

looking at other schools? 20


categorization. 22

THE WITNESS: Say it again. 23


201

Q. So are you saying West Virginia was not a 1

premier job for a football coach back in 2005? 2

A. West Virginia is a good job. 3

Q. I asked premier, sir. 4

A. It's not a premier job. 5

Q. You're saying LSU's better? 6

A. In the industry, there is a group of 7

schools that are -- that -- everyone has their 8

different opinions. 9

Q. I asked as to LSU. 10

A. Is LSU a better job? I would consider 11

LSU a better job than West Virginia. 12

Q. So if you could get Mr. Rodriguez, he 13

could step up, then, in your opinion, back in December 14

of '05 to a better job; is that right? 15


THE WITNESS: It never got to 17

that point. 18


Q. That's why you called -- 20

A. You're always, as -- a representative, 21

it's your fiduciary duty to go out, if there is a job 22

that you think that possibly your client might be a 23

candidate for, you always just want to go check on it, 24

202

get the status of it, and if it -- if it warrants 1

anything, then you go back and talk to your client 2

about it. 3

Q. So you're looking into it for the purpose 4

of potentially having your client leave his job, or 5

her job, and go to another school; is that right? 6



Q. That's why you look into it? 9

A. Not to potentially leave, but to go 10

back -- if you think it warrants it, you go back and 11

you relay information to your client, and then however 12

it proceeds, it proceeds after that. 13

Q. Did you tell West Virginia as the 14

representative of Rich Rodriguez in December of '05 15

that you were making inquiries to LSU to see what the 16

specifics of their search for a football coach were? 17

A. No, that's -- 18


THE WITNESS: No. That's not 20

the way the industry works. 21


Q. I didn't ask you that. 23

A. Yes. 24

203

Q. You did not do that? 1

A. No, I did not. 2

Q. You didn't do that for North Carolina? 3

A. No. 4



Q. Now, did you have a conversation with 7

Rodriguez after speaking with Mr. Bertman about the 8

LSU specifics of the job? 9


You can answer. 11



Q. As part -- has anybody ever asked you to 14

check on e-mails and that to see whether or not you 15

save e-mails or letters, copies of letters, concerning 16

any of these schools like North Carolina by and 17

through Chuck Neinas, and LSU by and through their 18

former athletic director, Mr. Bertman? 19

A. Say it again? 20

Q. Have you made any search or attempt to 21

find any records concerning these inquiries that you 22

were making on behalf of Rodriguez in December of '05 23

and November of '06 for those two schools? 24

204


answer. 2

THE WITNESS: In regards to the 3

conversations with -- 4


Q. The question was have you made a search 6

for records, Mr. Brown? 7


You can answer. 9


Q. For any of those records? 11

A. I've made a search for e-mail records 12

that have been requested by you guys in discovery. 13

Q. And I think all of those were destroyed 14

or whatever they do in computers? 15

A. No, I don't save them. And I made an 16

inquiry to AOL, I used my AOL account, and AOL came 17

back and said that they don't keep -- there's no way 18

to pull those e-mails back up. 19

And did I pass that notice along to -- 20

Q. We've seen that. The question is you 21

don't have any of those records because they've been 22

removed from your system to your knowledge; is that 23

correct?24

205


Q. All right. Okay. LSU. What other 2

schools have you contacted during periods of time that 3

your customer, Rodriguez, was under contract for long 4

term with West Virginia, that you've been out 5

contacting? 6


You can answer. 8

THE WITNESS: I was contacted -- 9

I did not contact, but I was contacted by 10

the University of Alabama. 11


Q. Alabama called you? 13


Q. Had somebody told them that you were the 15

representative of Rodriguez and they would have to go 16

through you, to your knowledge? 17

A. It was common knowledge among the -- out 18

in the industry among the athletic directors and that 19

that I represented Coach Rodriguez. I have no idea 20

how they came specifically to know to contact me. 21

Q. All right. Did you talk to them on the 22

first call, or did you have to call them back? Do you 23

recall how that happened?24

206

A. Actually, I was out of the country on 1

vacation, and they had left a message with me. 2

Q. All right. And did you then call them 3

back? 4

A. They -- I didn't know it was -- I didn't 5

know what the subject matter was. I got back, there 6

was a message on my phone; and yes, I did return the 7

call without knowing what the subject matter was. 8

Q. And was that in -- what year was that in? 9

A. That would have been in '06. 10

Q. In December of '06 or before that? 11

A. It would have been -- I got the message 12

when I got back in the country on the Saturday after 13

Thanksgiving of '06. 14

Q. So the Saturday after the Thanksgiving of 15

'06, whenever that was? 16


Q. It may have been -- it probably was 18

November? 19

A. I don't have a calendar. 20

Q. Who did you speak with at Alabama? 21

A. I spoke with Kevin Almond, the associate 22

athletic director. 23

Q. Did you fly down to Alabama?24

207

A. No, I did not. 1

Q. Did you ever meet with him in person? 2

A. Who, Kevin? 3

Q. Any representative of Alabama. 4

A. Yes, I did. 5

Q. Who did you meet with in person? 6

A. In person I met on, I believe it was 7

Thursday, December the 7th -- and correct me if I'm 8

wrong on the -- on the -- on Thursday, December the 9

7th, I went to Tuscaloosa. 10

Q. Where is Tuscaloosa? 11

A. It's in Alabama west of Birmingham by 12

about 45 to 50 minutes. 13

Q. So you did meet in Alabama? 14

A. I did. 15

Q. Okay. I thought I asked you that, and 16

you said no, but be that as it may. 17

You did meet with a representative of the 18

University of Alabama in Alabama in the early part of 19

December of 2006; is that true? 20


Q. Was Mr. Almond present or other 22

representatives? 23

A. Other representatives were there.24

208

Q. Had you had discussions with Rodriguez 1

between the Saturday after Thanksgiving and Thursday, 2

December 7th, when you flew down to Alabama? 3


You can answer. 5

THE WITNESS: I didn't fly, I 6

drove. 7


Q. You drove? 9

A. Yeah. 10

Q. I'm sorry. 11

A. It's 2 hours and 45 minutes from my house 12

to Tuscaloosa. 13

Q. Okay. You drove a motor vehicle there? 14


Q. All right. Who else was present for that 16

meeting? 17

A. The first meeting was on that Thursday, 18

was Mal Moore. 19

Q. Mal? 20

A. Mal, M-a-l, M-o-o-r-e. And then I met 21

with him; and then Finus Gaston joined us. He's the 22

associate athletic director for financial matters at 23

Alabama.24

209

Q. Finus -- 1

A. F-i-n-u-s, G-a-s-t-o-n. 2

Q. And he -- it's a he? 3

A. Yes, it is. 4

Q. -- takes cares of financial matters for 5

the University? 6

A. Alabama athletic department. 7

Q. All right. 8

A. And then I was later joined by President 9

Witt. And all this was after that week. I believe 10

Mal Moore had placed a call to Ed Pastilong and had 11

informed -- had left a message for Ed. 12

Ed returned the phone call. He thought 13

it was a prank call, so he called back to Mal Moore's 14

secretary on that Tuesday, saying that he thought he 15

had gotten a prank call about Coach Moore wanting to 16

talk to Rich about the job. 17

And the Alabama secretary told Ed that, 18

no, it was not a prank call, that Mal Moore did want 19

to talk to Rich about the job. 20

Rich and Mal Moore and Rita met in New 21

York City on that preceding Tuesday of the Thursday 22

that I drove over there. 23

Q. Okay. Hold one second. 24

210

A. Uh-huh. 1

Q. I thought my question was who all was 2

there. You're going into a little bit more detail, 3

and I want to try to break this down a little bit. 4

A. Uh-huh. 5

Q. You drive on the 7th to Alabama? 6


Q. You meet with Mal Moore, you meet with 8

Finus Gaston -- 9

A. Gaston. 10

Q. -- and President Witt? 11


Q. Anybody else present for that meeting? 13

A. There were multiple meetings. That was 14

the first meeting. 15

Q. Okay. That's the first meeting. Was 16

anyone else present for that meeting? 17

A. No, there weren't. 18

Q. Was anybody by phone? Did you have 19

anybody conferenced in -- 20

A. No. 21

Q. -- during that meeting? 22

A. No. 23

Q. From the Saturday after Thanksgiving up 24

211

until December 7th, when did you tell Rodriguez that 1

you were going to Alabama to talk to these people? 2

Would it have been shortly after the call on Saturday 3

after Thanksgiving of '06? 4


You can answer. 6

THE WITNESS: No. Coach 7

Rodriguez and Mal Moore met in New York 8

on that Tuesday. I believe Coach Moore 9

also met with some other candidates 10

there. 11


Q. My question was when did you talk to 13

Rodriguez after the Saturday after Thanksgiving? 14

A. About going to Tuscaloosa? 15

Q. Yeah. You find out that there is a job 16

and you have some discussion -- 17

A. On late Wednesday night, the night before 18

that Thursday, so that would have been -- the 8th, the 19

7th -- on late Wednesday night, the 6th, around 11:30 20

or 11:45 p.m. 21

Q. That's the first discussion you had with 22

Rodriguez? 23

A. In regard -- you asked me when did I talk 24

212

to Rodriguez prior to driving over there and him 1

knowing I was going to drive over there. 2

Q. When did you talk to Rodriguez about the 3

Alabama job? Was it shortly after this call on the 4

Saturday after Thanksgiving? 5


You can answer. 7

THE WITNESS: I -- I can't 8

recall, but it was that following week. 9


Q. Well, was it -- is there some reason you 11

wouldn't tell Rich Rodriguez that the Alabama -- "The 12

University of Alabama had contacted me about a 13

potential position for you as the head football coach 14

there"? 15

A. I did contact Rich. 16

Q. Okay. It would have been shortly after 17

the initial call on that Saturday -- 18

A. I got -- no, I got back -- I returned the 19

call on that Saturday to Kevin Almond. 20

Q. Right. 21

A. He did not get back to me until that 22

Monday. 23

Q. Who didn't?24

213

A. Kevin Almond. 1

Q. Okay. You called back, so you didn't 2

tell Rich that, Hey, these guys have called, I left a 3

message -- 4

A. No, no. 5

Q. -- here's a -- 6

A. Will you listen, buddy? 7

Q. I'm not your buddy, sir. 8

A. All right. I got back from vacation, out 9

of the country, I get a phone message on that Saturday 10

afterwards that Kevin Almond called. 11

Q. Right. 12

A. All right? 13

Q. Right. 14

A. He said, Call me. So I called and left 15

him a message. I did not hear from him until the 16

following Monday, because he was in Hawaii with his 17

golf team. 18

Q. I understand. 19

A. So he called me back on that Monday, and 20

he told me, he said, Mike, I think we may be making a 21

change here in the coaching thing, and I believe your 22

guy Rodriguez may be a candidate. And I said fine. 23

Q. My question was between that time, did 24

214

you call Rodriguez and say, I got a call from Alabama, 1

I'm not sure what it's about, but they may have -- 2

A. I did not call Rich until after the -- I 3

did not call Rich until after Mike Shula was fired, 4

and they -- and Alabama had called me back again 5

saying that they -- that they wanted to talk to Rich. 6

Q. So on this phone call, which is Monday, I 7

think it's December 4th of '06? 8

A. No. That would have been the week 9

before. 10

Q. The week before? 11

A. Uh-huh. 12

Q. Clear back in November, then? 13

A. Yeah. I told you I got back after 14

Thanksgiving on a Saturday, got a message, returned 15

the call on that Monday. 16

Q. Okay. Did you get a call on that Monday 17

and you speak with -- who called you? 18

A. Kevin Almond, the associate athletic 19

director. 20

Q. And he tells you that they may be 21

interested? 22

A. They said they may be making a coaching 23

change.24

215

Q. All right. Did you call Rich then? 1

A. No. I waited until after the -- it 2

didn't happen until after the coaching change was 3

done, and I received a call back from Kevin saying 4

that Alabama, that Rich was one of the candidates that 5

they wanted to talk to. 6

Q. Okay. When would that have been? 7

A. Sometime after that Monday. 8

Q. When you go down to Alabama on the 7th, 9

is it between Monday and Thursday you talk to 10

Rodriguez and tell him Alabama may be interested in 11

you? 12

A. Rich had a game, still one remaining game 13

with Rutgers that week. I informed Rich that Alabama 14

may want to talk to him, and Rich instructed me to 15

relay back to Alabama do not call and ask for 16

permission, if they did want to talk to him, until 17

after the regular season was completed. 18

Q. Did he direct you not to contact Alabama 19

again also? 20

A. No. 21

Q. But you were his representative, and you 22

went ahead then and continued, then, with your 23

communications with Alabama?24

216


Q. Were you reporting to him as to what 2

Alabama was saying during those discussions and 3

meetings? 4

A. No, not that week. He was focused on 5

Rutgers. 6

Q. So you totally kept secret the 7

discussions that you had with Alabama, even though 8

Rodriguez knew you had had some discussions with 9

Alabama? 10


Answer. 12

THE WITNESS: The only 13

discussions were, our guy -- we may be 14

interested in talking with your guy. 15

The only discussions was I went 16

back to them and said, Do not contact him 17

and ask for permission to talk to him 18

until after the Rutgers game. 19


Q. Okay. You go to, December 7th, Thursday, 21

down to Alabama. When is the Rutgers game? 22

A. The preceding Saturday. 23

Q. It had already taken place?24

217


Q. So Rodriguez knew you were going down 2

then to Alabama? 3

A. No, he did not know I was going down to 4

Alabama until Wednesday, December the 6th. 5

Q. Okay. But he knew before you went? 6

A. He instructed me to go. 7

Q. Okay. So on December the 6th, you and 8

Rodriguez had talked about the job, potential opening, 9

and he had gone ahead and directed that you go down to 10

Alabama and meet with these folks? 11

A. No. On Wednesday night, December 6th, 12

sometime late in the evening, Rich called me up and 13

said Mal Moore had called and offered him the job at 14

Alabama. 15

Q. All right. 16

A. That's Wednesday night, December the 6th. 17

Q. So on December 6th, Alabama made an offer 18

for a job? 19

A. They told Rich Rodriguez -- Mal Moore 20

talked to Rich Rodriguez, and Mal said, I would like 21

to offer you the job. 22

Q. What was offered? 23

A. At that point in time there were no 24

218

details. 1

Q. So a job was offered with no details? 2

A. At that point. Because it was a job 3

offer, and what Rich instructed and told Mal was, My 4

representative will meet with you tomorrow, and you 5

guys work up a term sheet and present it to me, and 6

I'll review it. 7

Q. All right. So Alabama offers 8

Rich Rodriguez on December 6th, according to what 9

you've been told, because you weren't privy to the 10

conversation, right? 11


Q. December 6th, Alabama offers 13

Rich Rodriguez the coaching position at Alabama, but 14

not -- no terms are discussed, to your knowledge? 15

A. Yeah. 16

Q. There's not a dollar mentioned, terms, 17

time -- 18

A. No. 19

Q. -- where you're going to be? 20

A. No. 21

Q. Zero, so far as the specifics of a 22

contract? 23


219

Q. Is that right? 1


Q. And how did you find out about that? Did 3

Alabama tell you or did Rodriguez tell you that? 4

A. Rich told me that. 5

Q. And at that point, did he then direct you 6

as his agent to go down and start working on specifics 7

of the contract? 8

A. What he did -- 9


You may answer. 11

THE WITNESS: What he did was he 12

told Mal Moore -- what Rich told me -- 13

because I think Rich hung up the phone 14

after talking with Mal Moore -- Rich 15

called me and said, Mike, Alabama is 16

offering me the job. 17


Q. Was he pretty excited at that time? 19




Q. How about you, were you pretty excited 23

about Alabama at that time?24

220


Q. Was that one of those, what do you call 2

them, premier programs? 3

A. When you win 13 national championships, 4

that's a premier program. 5

Q. You consider that premier? 6

A. You're daggone right, I do. I'm from the 7

south, buddy. 8

Q. That's big time, isn't it? 9

A. That is. 10

Q. Boy, that would have been great to get 11

Rich Rodriguez down there at Alabama, wouldn't it? 12

A. It's a great job. It's his decision to 13

go. 14

Q. Yep. And it was special to you, too, 15

wasn't it? 16

A. No. 17

Q. Pardon me? 18

A. It wasn't special, but I mean -- 19

Q. It's Alabama. 20

A. It is Alabama. 21

Q. It's Michigan -- 22

A. Just like Michigan is Michigan. 23

Q. Michigan is Michigan, right? 24

221

A. Yep. 1

Q. And what's West Virginia? 2

A. West Virginia is a good job. 3

Q. Just a good job? 4

A. Everyone has their opinion. 5

Q. Right. 6

A. Uh-huh. 7

Q. Okay. So you go down then on the 7th? 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. You drive two hours and 45 minutes to 10

meet with these folks that you talked about? 11


Q. Do you have a term sheet? 13

A. No. 14

Q. Did you have a proposal? 15

A. No. 16

Q. Had you talked to Rich Rodriguez about 17

maybe what he would require, since he's the guy that, 18

I guess, is going to be the coach, right, run the 19

program? 20

A. Yeah. 21

Q. Take any notes? 22

A. As far as -- 23

Q. The specifics that he would want? These 24

222

things are a little bit intricate? 1

A. No, no. Over a period of time in my 2

conversations and knowing Rich, I knew what was 3

important to him. 4

Q. You were just going to try to get the 5

best deal you could? 6

A. The best deal for him and his assistant 7

coaches and the strength coach and the whole program. 8

Q. Were you going to move the whole program 9

from West Virginia down there? 10


THE WITNESS: No, no. Just 12

certain people. Rich does the hiring and 13

that. What I was going to do was get him 14

the maximum salary pool for his assistant 15

coaches that that -- I could negotiate 16

for him. 17


Q. All right. So you go down -- had Rich 19

told you what he wanted you to -- did he want you to 20

obligate him? 21

A. No. 22

Q. Did you have the authority to obligate 23

him at that time?24

223

A. No, I did not. 1

Q. And you were the sole and exclusive 2

representative for him on all contract matters, 3

weren't you? 4

A. I walked into the meeting. When I met 5

with Mal Moore and Finus Gaston and the president, 6

this is what I told them. 7

Q. Were you by yourself? 8

A. I was by myself. 9

Q. All right. So you're in there. Did 10

you -- I don't want to use that word "negotiate," you 11

remember we talked about that a little bit. 12

Did you go in and negotiate terms at that 13

time? 14

A. Well, the first thing I did, I informed 15

Mal Moore, present with Finus Gaston, that what I was 16

authorized to do by Rich was to come down there, work 17

with them that day on a term sheet and an offer, and 18

that I had no obligation authority, and that -- 19

Q. You did not have that authority? 20

A. I did not have that authority. 21

Q. You told them that? 22

A. I told them that. And that -- that my 23

instructions and the way it was going to play out was 24

224

that I would work that day on a term sheet -- Rich had 1

been very busy that week. I think he had a function 2

in Charleston on that Thursday. I think he was at a 3

Gator Bowl press conference -- 4

Q. I'm just interested in you and the 5

meeting. Stick to the question. 6

A. Okay. Okay. I told them, I said, Here's 7

how the process is going to work. 8

Q. You told them how it was going to work, 9

Alabama? 10

A. Yeah. I told them, I said, We're going 11

to sit here and do a term sheet today, I will get it 12

back to Rich as soon as we finish, and that Rich will 13

sit down with -- the first time that he will have a 14

chance to evaluate or make any decisions to accept the 15

job would be the following day on Friday. 16

Q. Right. Now -- 17

A. That there would be three steps to the 18

process, I told them. I said, We get the term sheet 19

together; we get the term sheet back to Rich; Rich 20

would have an -- Rich would be able to go through and 21

review it, ask questions, and also have an opportunity 22

to ask Alabama more questions, because of -- he felt 23

that he had not had time to do his full due diligence 24

225

on the Alabama job. 1

So, again, I informed them I did not have 2

the authority to obligate them; told them the only 3

thing and my objective that day was it to get a term 4

sheet and take it back to my client and present it to 5

him. 6

Q. Now, did you have note -- notes at that 7

time as to what you were going to look for in the 8

agreement in comparison to West Virginia's agreement, 9

or did you know West Virginia's agreement so well that 10

you didn't need that? 11



Q. Notes. 14

A. I didn't go back and look at the West 15

Virginia contract. 16

Q. Because you knew it pretty well -- 17

A. I knew it pretty well. 18

Q. -- you went through the thing. You had 19

actually helped negotiate it and helped write certain 20

provisions. 21



A. Uh-huh.24

226

Q. Okay. So you have that knowledge already 1

at that point of the contract, and you go down -- and 2

you go down. Did you negotiate the terms, since you 3

were kind of running the show at that time? 4


THE WITNESS: No. What we did, 6

then, is after a -- after a meeting at 7

Mal Moore's house with myself and Mal 8

Moore and Finus Gaston and President 9

Witt, they told me, you know, that they 10

wanted to sit down and work up a term 11

sheet. 12

And so we agreed we would go 13

back to the president's office, and I 14

would sit down with -- I can't recall, a 15

couple of their legal counsel people, and 16

work up the terms -- work up the term 17

sheet. 18


Q. Was a term sheet worked up, then, in 20

Alabama? 21


THE WITNESS: Yes. It was 23

worked up by the close of business that 24

227

day. 1


Q. On the 6th? 3

A. On Thursday, December 7th. 4

Q. 7th, all right. Did you bring it back or 5

did you fax it or did you read it to Rodriguez on your 6

way back home? 7

A. Rich and I did not have any communication 8

the rest of the day on Thursday. He was in -- he was 9

in Jacksonville at the Gator Bowl function. It was 10

late. I don't think he got back into Morgantown to 11

his house until, I think, after midnight or 1:00 in 12

the morning. 13

Q. So you called him the next morning, then? 14

A. The next morning, I called Rich in the 15

morning. 16

Q. Did you fax him a copy of this term 17

sheet? 18

A. I did fax him a copy of the term sheet. 19

Q. Did you fax it at his office at West 20

Virginia or some other location? 21

A. Faxed it to his -- 22


answer. 24

228

THE WITNESS: I faxed it to his 1

office at West Virginia. 2


Q. Did you have to make any arrangements so 4

nobody would see that fax coming in from Alabama, the 5

term sheet? 6

A. No, because Rich went into the office 7

early in the morning, and I believe he was the only 8

one there. 9

Q. To the best of your knowledge, he was the 10

only one there when you faxed it on the 8th to -- 11

A. I have no knowledge -- I have no 12

knowledge of who else was there. 13

Q. You don't have any knowledge that anyone 14

else was present? 15

A. I have no knowledge. 16

Q. All right. Now, had you called West 17

Virginia, since you are the representative of 18

Mr. Rodriguez, and the contract at that time spanned 19

clear until 2013, did you call them and tell them you 20

were -- actually in active negotiations for a contract 21

position at Alabama? 22



229

Q. Did you call and tell anybody from West 1

Virginia up till that morning of the 7th? 2

A. I believe I recall a conversation I had 3

with Ed Pastilong. 4

Q. When was that? 5

A. It was either on the Tuesday -- that 6

would have been the -- let me see, the 8th, the 7th -- 7

either on Tuesday the 5th or Wednesday the 6th I had 8

conversation with Ed Pastilong. 9

Q. What did you tell Mr. Pastilong? Did you 10

tell him you were negotiating with Alabama for Rich at 11

that time? 12


You can answer. 14

THE WITNESS: I told Ed that I 15

thought that -- first of all, in 16

conversation, I confirmed in the 17

conversation with Ed that Rich did talk 18

to Alabama. That's when Ed relayed to me 19

the story about how he thought the call 20

asking for permission or informing them 21

they were going to talk was a prank call. 22

And then I told Ed that I 23

thought there was going to be -- that 24

230

they were going to make an offer. 1


Q. Did you talk to him about the specifics 3

of the offer? 4

A. There wasn't an offer at that time. I 5

just -- I kept -- I wanted to be fair to Ed, and I -- 6

and so -- I wanted to be fair, so I made contact with 7

West Virginia, and let Ed know what the status was. 8

Q. All right. So you didn't tell him 9

anything about the specifics or whatever? 10

A. There wasn't -- there wasn't a term-sheet 11

offer at that time drawn up. 12

Q. Well, is it your position that West 13

Virginia had breached or whatever that agreement with 14

Mr. Rodriguez at that time? 15


You can answer. 17

THE WITNESS: I had no -- that 18

had not -- I had not -- I had not even 19

thought or spent time reviewing that. 20


Q. Well, you knew you were participating in 22

an event that potentially would cause Rodriguez to 23

breach his contract with West Virginia that was 24

231

obligated up to 2013, didn't you? 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. That didn't bother you that you were 3

participating in helping a person breach a contract, a 4

promise that they had made to a university? That 5

didn't bother you? 6


THE WITNESS: I was fulfilling 8

my obligation to Rich Rodriguez to act as 9

his representative. 10


Q. You were soliciting or getting the 12

information for anything that would potentially be 13

better for him, that he could move on in his life a 14

little bit better, basically; is that right? 15

A. My job as an agent is to get it back to 16

him, present the opportunity to him. It's his 17

decision whether or not he determines it to better 18

himself. 19

Q. Well, you make the initial decision, 20

because if it's not something realistic or something 21

beneficial, you aren't going to spend much time on it; 22

here you spent a considerable amount of time on 23

Alabama, from what I understand. 24

232

A. I did spend a considerable amount of 1

time. 2

Q. So did you feel that the potential was 3

there, that this could be much better, and as you say, 4

"It's Alabama." 5

A. Well, you have to look at it, get the 6

details together, go back to Rich, and then he makes a 7

decision as his own individual. 8

Q. All right. So the first time anybody 9

from West Virginia was notified, at least to your 10

personal knowledge, about Alabama was you calling 11

Mr. Pastilong, and he had relayed that he may have 12

received a call before? 13

A. Repeat that question. 14

Q. Yeah. The first time you ever notified 15

West Virginia about the Alabama discussions was when 16

you called Mr. Pastilong? 17

A. Say it again now. 18

Q. The first time you ever notified any 19

representative of West Virginia about the Alabama 20

negotiations was when you spoke with Mr. Pastilong? 21

A. Yes, myself, but I was aware, and we -- 22

and that no discussions were going to take place with 23

Alabama unless Mal Moore went through and contacted 24

233

Eddie Pastilong. And I knew that had been done. 1

Q. All right. So the term sheet comes in on 2

the 8th, and you fax it to Rodriguez's office; is that 3

right? 4


Q. All right. What happens on the 8th, 6

then? You meet with Rodriguez? 7

A. I think Rich and I had a -- a telephone 8

conversation, and he was in his office and Rita was in 9

the office. 10

Q. Discussing the term sheet? 11

A. Discussing the term sheet. 12

Q. Anybody else present on that phone 13

conversation? 14

A. I only have knowledge of Rich and Rita. 15

Q. The only people that identified 16

themselves; is that right? 17

A. (Witness nods head.) 18

Q. Yes? 19

A. Yes. 20

Q. And do you know if anyone else was in 21

Rodriguez's office with his wife at that time? 22

A. I can't answer. I wasn't there. 23

Q. All right. What's the decision at that 24

234

time? 1

A. There was no decision. 2

Q. No decision either way at that time? 3

A. No decision either way. 4

Q. Were you planning on meeting, or 5

Rodriguez planning on meeting West Virginia that same 6

day? 7

A. I have no -- I had no -- I was in 8

Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I had no idea what Rich's 9

schedule was or who was contacting him or who he was 10

talking with that day, at that time in the morning. 11

Q. Well, you know a term sheet was signed 12

with West Virginia that same very day? 13

A. Later in the day, yes. 14

Q. So is it your testimony under oath that 15

you as this sports agent had no clue that Rodriguez 16

was going to be talking to West Virginia about a term 17

sheet at that point, that day? 18

A. In the morning? 19

Q. At any time that day before the term 20

sheet was signed? 21

A. Now say that again now. 22

Q. Is it your testimony that you had no clue 23

that Rodriguez was going to meet with West Virginia 24

235

officials about the contract, his contract with West 1

Virginia that day? 2

A. Later in the morning, Rich called me and 3

told me that West Virginia representatives or West 4

Virginia people had contacted him and wanted to meet 5

with him. 6

Q. So as you understood it at that time, it 7

was West Virginia that contacted Rodriguez on December 8

8th, 2006, for the purpose of meeting concerning their 9

contract after the term sheet had already been sent to 10

him for Alabama? 11

A. Uh-huh. 12


A. Now when you say "West Virginia," I don't 14

know whether it was with Bob Garrett; I didn't know 15

whether it was Eddie Pastilong; I don't know whether 16

it was Steve Farmer or Steve Goodwin. But it was late 17

in the morning that I had a conversation with Rich, 18

and he said, I've been contacted and they want to 19

talk. 20

Q. Well, you as his agent at that time, 21

weren't you going to be involved in the discussions 22

with West Virginia? 23

A. At that point in time, I was in 24

236

Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Rich was up there in West 1

Virginia, and I was holding the fort down there. And 2

I had no idea until later, early afternoon, that he 3

had had a conversation and a meeting, I believe, with 4

Ed Pastilong, I don't know if Whit Babcock was there 5

or not, but I got impressions afterwards that either 6

Steve Farmer and/or Steve Goodwin were involved in 7

phone conversations with him. 8

Q. So you stayed in Alabama the 7th and 8th, 9

then. 10


Q. Did you meet with Alabama officials 12

during the day on December 8th? 13

A. I did -- the only -- during the day at 14

various times I had interaction with different 15

officials down there. 16

Q. Did you speak with the press on December 17

8th, 2006, any reporter? 18

A. December the 6th, did you say? 19

Q. December 8th of 2006. 20

A. On Friday? I can't recall. I may have. 21

Q. Who would you have talked to? 22

A. If I have -- I can't remember. 23

Q. Why would you be talking to the press on 24

237

December 8th, 2006? 1


THE WITNESS: I believe maybe I 3

did talk to somebody in the press after 4

Rich made his decision to stay at West 5

Virginia. I can't recall. 6


Q. So it's your testimony you didn't have 8

any discussion with the press or any reporter prior to 9

Rodriguez deciding to stay at West Virginia? 10



Q. Is that your testimony? 13



That's a long time ago. I can't recall 16

who -- it got very crazy during the 8th 17

and that. I can't recall. 18


Q. What got crazy? 20

A. Just the media reports and things that 21

got out there. 22

Q. My question was -- I guess your answer 23

is -- under oath your testimony is that you never 24

238

talked to anybody from the press December 8th, 2006, 1

prior to speaking to somebody and telling them 2

Rodriguez was not -- was staying at West Virginia? 3

A. That's my testimony. 4

Q. That's your testimony? 5

A. Yeah. 6

Q. You're sticking to that? 7

A. I'm sticking to that. 8

Q. I thought so. 9

A. Now, you want to know how the leak got 10

out there. 11

Q. Pardon me? 12

A. I know where you're headed. There was a 13

leak out there -- 14

Q. Mr. Brown, I doubt you know where I'm 15

headed. 16

A. Okay. 17

Q. I'm pretty sure. 18

A. Okay. No, no, I -- I will -- I want to 19

make this statement, is -- 20

Q. You're asking to make just a statement 21

here? 22

A. No. When you talk about the press, is 23

that it had been proven at the -- at the University of 24

239

Alabama, that there was a leak between the president's 1

office and Board of Governors in regards to the 2

contract negotiations, what was going on in Tuscaloosa 3

on that Thursday and Friday. 4

Q. Who all did you meet with on the 8th from 5

Alabama? I'm talking about in person first, and then 6

we'll talk about -- 7


object. I thought that was asked and 9

answered. 10

THE WITNESS: On the 8th? In 11

the morning, I met with their university 12

legal counsel who keeps offices in both 13

Birmingham and Tuscaloosa. 14


Q. What was the purpose of that meeting, 16

since you had already sent the term sheet to Rodriguez 17

and he was considering it? 18

A. He asked me had I heard from Rich and 19

what's the status. 20

Q. So you went over to meet with him 21

personally? 22

A. I went over to the president's office 23

that morning and faxed from the president's office to 24

240

Rich the term sheet. I remained in the president's 1

office, in the area there through the morning. I 2

can't remember the gentleman's name, but we took a 3

break and went over and had a mid morning brunch. 4

Q. Why were you remaining in the president's 5

office? Were you waiting to hear a response from 6

Rodriguez? 7


Q. Even though you knew he was going to meet 9

with West Virginia representatives? 10

A. I did not -- I was not aware that he was 11

going to meet with West Virginia representatives until 12

later in the morning, early afternoon. 13

Q. All right. So you were waiting there, 14

just basically waiting for him to have considered the 15

term sheet, and then you found out later he was going 16

to meet with representatives, people -- west Virginia 17

representatives? 18


Q. All right. Did you suggest that he go 20

back to West Virginia and talk to some of the 21

representatives from West Virginia University at that 22

time? 23

A. I did not.24

241

Q. Did you recommend to him that he accept 1

the Alabama job? 2


THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. 4


Q. Did you know at that time that that would 6

breach his contract with West Virginia? 7




Q. In your opinion. 11

A. Yes. 12

Q. Did the LSU job ever get to the point of 13

any financial offers or anything like that? 14

A. No. 15

Q. They weren't interested in Rodriguez? 16

A. They were not interested. 17

Q. After Alabama, up until the time of 18

Arkansas, what schools did you contact or make inquiry 19

to in performing what you call some duty that you have 20

to Mr. Rodriguez? 21


Q. What schools did you contact from the 23

Alabama incident up until Arkansas, which occurs in 24

242

the later part of November '07? What schools did you 1

contact, directly or indirectly? 2

A. None. 3

Q. Zero? 4

A. Zero. 5

Q. Did you recommend also that Rodriguez 6

take the offer at Michigan? 7

A. Yes, I did. 8

Q. That would have been done, what, sometime 9

around the 14th of December? 10

A. That would have been on Sunday morning, 11

December the 13th, 14th, 15th -- on Sunday morning, 12

December the 16th. 13

Q. You had a meeting before that, though, 14

didn't you, up in Toledo? 15

A. Yeah, I did. 16

Q. The 14th? 17

A. Yes. 18

Q. Did you recommend against the Michigan 19

job at that time? 20

A. I didn't make any recommendation one way 21

or another at that time. 22

Q. You just weren't sure, even though it was 23

discussions where an offer had been made?24

243


and answered. 2

THE WITNESS: The way I work 3

with a client, if is an offer is made, we 4

work up a term sheet, I present it to 5

them. We -- we get to a point where if 6

it does work, he has to make a decision. 7

I sit down with him, discuss it, make up 8

the chart, go through with him, sign -- 9


Q. My question has to do with 11

recommendation. Are you saying you did not recommend 12

one way or another on the 14th, even though the offer 13

had been made? 14



Robon, did you want to eat today or -- 17

MR. ROBON: I would love at 18

least 10 minutes. 19

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: 10 20

minutes, okay. 21

MR. WAKEFIELD: I need to check 22

out of my room, too, so if now is a good 23

time -- 24

244


What time is it? 2

MR. WAKEFIELD: It's 1:30. Is 3

this a good time, probably? Do you want 4

to get a sandwich or something, 5

Mr. Brown? 6

THE WITNESS: I'm fine. I've 7

been eating these power bars all day, so 8

if Marv needs a bite, we'll take time 9

and -- 10


Do you want to hit it? 12

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off 13


(A luncheon recess was taken 15

from 1:31 p.m. to 1:55 p.m.) 16

- - - 17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MONONGALIA COUNTY 25

WEST VIRGINIA 26

245

1

WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY )

BOARD OF GOVERNORS, for ) 2

and on behalf of )

WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY, ) 3

)

) 4

Plaintiff, )

) 5

vs. ) Civil Action No. 07-C-851

) 6

RICHARD RODRIGUEZ, ) Judge Stone

) 7

)

Defendant. ) 8

9

- - - 10

11

DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL L. BROWN 12

VOLUME II 13

(Afternoon Session)

14

15

DATE: May 5, 2008 at 1:55 p.m.

16

PLACE: Marriott Courtyard

2435 East Mall Drive 17

Holland, Ohio

18

REPORTER: Casey G. Schreiner, RMR-RDR

Notary Public 19

20

- - - 21

22

246

APPEARANCES: 1

On behalf of the Plaintiff: 2

FITZSIMMONS LAW OFFICES: 3

Robert P. Fitzsimmons

Robert J. Fitzsimmons 4

1609 Warwood Avenue

Wheeling, West Virginia 26003 5

(304) 277-2700

6

and

7

FLAHERTY, SENSABAUGH & BONASSO,

P.L.L.C.: 8

Jeffrey M. Wakefield

Jaclyn A. Bryk 9

200 Capitol Street


(304) 345-0200

11

On behalf of the Defendant: 12

BARKAN & ROBON LTD.: 13

Marvin A. Robon

1701 Woodlands Drive 14

Maumee, Ohio 43537

(419) 897-6500 15

16

and

17

DiTRAPANO, BARRETT & DiPIERO, PLLC:

Sean P. McGinley (via telephone) 18

604 Virginia Street, East


(304) 342-0133

20

ALSO PRESENT: 21

Frank Mannino, Videographer 22

Alexander Macia, Vice President for

Legal Affairs and General Counsel, 23

West Virginia University

24

247



BY MR. FITZSIMMONS: 3

Q. Mr. Brown, the West Virginia University 4

term sheet of December 8th, 2006, you're generally 5

aware of that? 6

A. Yes, I am. 7

Q. After the Alabama term sheet had been 8

faxed to Mr. Rodriguez and before that term sheet was 9

signed by Mr. Rodriguez, the West Virginia one being 10

signed, did you have any discussions with 11

Mr. Rodriguez in that period of time about the West 12

Virginia University term sheet? 13


You can answer. 15

THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. 16


Q. Did you -- did you get a copy of that 18

term sheet? 19

A. I did not. 20

Q. Did Mr. Rodriguez relay the information 21

on it to you by phone? 22

A. Yes, he did. 23

Q. And that's when you were down -- were you 24

248

still in the president's office at Alabama at that 1

time? 2

A. No. At that point in time in the day in 3

the afternoon, I had left the president's office, and 4

gone over to Mal Moore, the athletic director's 5

residence. So I was at Mal Moore's residence at that 6

time. 7

Q. And did Rodriguez call you there or did 8

you call him? 9

A. He called me. 10

Q. Did you discuss the various terms between 11

the two term sheets? 12

A. Yes, we did. 13

Q. Did you compare those? 14

A. Yes, we did. 15

Q. When you said "we," would that be you and 16

Rich by phone? 17

A. By phone, correct. 18

Q. Was anybody else participating, to your 19

knowledge, in that comparison? 20

A. To my knowledge, I have no knowledge of 21

anybody that was standing next to Rich or anybody 22

while he was on the phone with me. 23

Q. Did you compare dollars and cents, 24

249

basically? 1

A. I came to talk. 2

Q. Obviously, that was part of the material 3

terms of the agreement was the salary, compensation, 4

and things like that? 5

A. Yeah. I believe what he brought up with 6

the salary and compensation was going to be at his 7

end, what West Virginia was proposing at that time. 8

Q. Did you advise Rodriguez not to sign the 9

West Virginia term sheet? 10

A. I did. 11

Q. And despite that, he's a grown-up, 12

competent person, he elected to go against your advice 13

and sign the West Virginia University term sheet of 14

December 8, 2006; is that true? 15


Q. That term sheet included a 4 million 17

dollar liquidated damage clause? 18

A. Yes, it sure did. 19

Q. For both parties? 20


Q. If Rodriguez was to leave West Virginia 22

without cause, according to the term sheet as you 23

understood it, he would have to pay the University 4 24

250

million dollars, depending -- in either installments 1

or as a lump sum depending on when that occurred? 2


Q. And you had actually recommended also in 4

prior negotiations with the University that the -- the 5

University of West Virginia, that if there was to be a 6

liquidated damage clause, in your opinion, they should 7

be the same between the University and Rodriguez? 8


Q. Yes. On occasion in the past had you 10

recommended -- you and Eric Metz recommended that if 11

there was to be liquidated damage clauses in these 12

contracts, they should be the same amount? 13


MR. FITZSIMMONS: 1, we'll start 15

with 1. 16

(Brown Exhibit 1 was marked for 17

identification.) 18


Q. What were the reasons that you 20

recommended that the term sheet at West Virginia 21

should not be signed in December of -- 8th of '06? 22

A. I thought that the liquidated damages and 23

penalty was excessive, being 4 million dollars, in 24

251

regards to the compensation amount that Rich was going 1

to be paid. And also, again, there were promises 2

being made to Rich in regards to if he signed the 3

contract, this would be done, that would be done, and 4

again, there was no urgency or anything that would 5

hold West Virginia to those promises. 6

Q. So you had specifically warned and 7

cautioned Rodriguez December 8th of 2006 that, in your 8

opinion, the liquidated damage clause for West 9

Virginia was just too much, in your opinion? 10


Q. And despite that, on that occasion, your 12

customer went ahead and said, I'm not going to take 13

your advice, I'm going to sign this anyway, and did 14

sign it? 15

A. When we had discussions, he said that 16

in -- that while I was not present he was meeting and 17

having discussions with Steve Goodwin and Eddie 18

Pastilong -- 19

Q. Mr. Brown -- 20

A. -- and Steve Goodwin -- 21

Q. -- the question was did he not take your 22

advice and signed the term sheet? 23

A. He did not -- he did not take my advice; 24

252

he signed the term sheet. 1

MR. ROBON: He's explaining 2

why. 3

MR. FITZSIMMONS: I didn't ask 4

him why. Mr. Robon, if you want to ask 5

questions, you ask your questions later 6

on. 7


Q. All right. Did you guys get into an 9

argument over it? 10

A. I wouldn't say it was an argument, but I 11

spoke very firmly. 12

Q. Terse words, that were used very firmly, 13

that he was crazy or anything? 14

A. No, not -- no, not terse words. And he 15

explained to me what his logic was. 16

Q. He wanted to stay at West Virginia? 17

A. He wanted to stay at West Virginia, and 18

that Steve Goodwin had told him that there were -- 19

there were some members -- 20

Q. I'm sorry, that -- 21

A. -- there were some members putting up the 22

funds to fund -- 23

Q. Mr. Brown, I don't believe anybody's 24

253

asked you what anyone else said here. 1

A. Well, you're asking me what Rich told me. 2

Q. No, no, no. That wasn't the question. 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. That's your -- your response? 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. Did he send you a copy, then, of the 7

signed term sheet? 8

A. It was, I believe, a few days later I got 9

a signed copy of the term sheet from him. 10

Q. Did you also keep in your files the 11

original contract for Rodriguez, the original letter 12

agreement in 2000, and the contract in December of 13

2002? 14

A. The other thing I had in my file was the 15

original contract in 2002. I never got a copy of 16

the -- I didn't even know there was a letter contract 17

before the original contract in 2002. 18

Q. So all you had was the December of '02 19

original contract, and then at that time you would 20

have had the amendment, first amendment, that you 21

helped negotiate and helped draft? 22

A. I not only had that, but I had the first 23

amendment term sheets also.24

254

Q. You had the first amendment term sheets 1

also? 2


Q. And you then had now a copy of the term 4

sheet, and that was actually in your file, which was 5

signed by Rodriguez? 6


Q. Okay. Let me show you Exhibit 1. Did 8

LMM, did they give you letterhead and authorize you to 9

use their letterhead at any time? 10

A. Uh-huh. 11

Q. Is this a letter that was authored by 12

you, Exhibit No. 1, which is dated February 15, 2006? 13

A. Uh-huh. 14

Q. Is that a yes? 15

A. Yes. 16

Q. Okay. In the second paragraph, I see 17

that you're talking about a contract, where you're 18

talking about the execution of the subject agreement 19

in 2002, that there has been a substantial, quote, and 20

then you have it italicized, material change in 21

circumstance, unquote, and you say that affects the 22

employment terms, compensation and benefits bargained 23

for?24

255

A. Uh-huh. 1

Q. What did you mean by that? 2

A. That -- that the conditions and the 3

overall conditions of the Big East, the West Virginia 4

University standing, what was -- how the job was 5

advertised to Rich in 2002, there was a change in 6

material circumstances at that time. 7

Q. Were you alleging that there was not an 8

agreement that was binding because of that? 9

A. I'm not alleging that there wasn't an 10

agreement that was binding. 11

Q. Is that one of the tools of the trade in 12

your business that can void or eliminate a contract if 13

you have, in your opinion, material changes in 14

circumstances in these agreements? 15

A. That's employment law. 16

Q. That's something you know, right? 17

A. I don't know, but I know well enough that 18

I've researched it and that. 19

Q. And you were alleging that clear back in 20

February 15th of 2006; is that right? 21

A. I raised the issue with West Virginia, 22

yes. 23

Q. Did you feel that that would create 24

256

bargaining power to -- even though the contract at 1

that time obligated Rodriguez for another four years 2

on his contract, that you would be able to up the 3

ante, so to speak, compensation? 4

A. No. It had nothing to do with 5

compensation at that point in time. I just had to 6

make sure everything was kept current, and the 7

circumstances in which the contract was signed on 8

needed to be examined and looked at. 9

A big -- a big problem, especially in 10

sports contracts, is not all the terms and conditions 11

are defined up front, and then as a contract goes on, 12

it creates problems between a coach and a university. 13

Q. Well, isn't that what you were trying to 14

allege, that Rodriguez's market value had increased, 15

and, therefore, you would ask pretty regularly to try 16

to increase his salary just about every year? 17

A. No, that's not the case. 18

Q. Wasn't it market value of 19

Richard Rodriguez that you were trying to sell to West 20

Virginia, even though there was a binding contract at 21

that point? 22

A. No. If you notice in the letter, one of 23

the things I brought up is the assistant coaches' 24

257

salary pool. 1

Q. On the third page there, last paragraph, 2

it says, basically, that Coach Rodriguez is concerned 3

on two fronts, first in regard to head coach salary. 4

A. Uh-huh. 5


A. Yes. 7

Q. Whose salary as head coach there, is that 8

your customer, Rodriguez? 9


Q. And you're saying that wasn't a concern 11

of yours then, that's not what you were trying to do? 12

A. No, that's one -- that is one of the many 13

concerns. It was not the highest one. There were 14

equal and many concerns. 15

Q. You only say there's two fronts, and that 16

was the first. That's how you labeled it in your own 17

letter back in February of '06. 18

A. "First in regards to head coach salary, 19

assistant coach budget, facilities and academic 20

comparisons." 21

Q. Mr. Brown, is that what it says, ""First 22

in regards to head coach salary, assistant coach 23

budget, facilities and academic comparisons"?24

258

A. That's what it says. 1

Q. First item listed is head coach salary? 2


Q. And when you talk about change in 4

circumstances, you're just guessing as to certain 5

things about what happens with the leagues and stuff 6

like that, right? 7

A. No, I'm not guessing. 8

Q. Isn't the Big East, didn't it turn out to 9

be a pretty good conference, sir? 10

A. It did. 11

Q. During the contract period that Rodriguez 12

was employed for, right? 13

A. Correct. 14

Q. Through 2010, we have another two years? 15

A. In the BCS, yes. 16

Q. We have one of the better conferences so 17

far as getting people into bowl games? 18

A. At the time this letter was written, 19

there were issues going forward inside the BCS of the 20

Big East's viability. 21

Q. And on page 2, you talk about the Notre 22

Dame team, they're going to pretty much always get an 23

automatic bid, they were one of the worst teams this 24

259

last year, didn't do too well the year before, either, 1

did they? 2


Q. So a lot of the things you were actually 4

saying turned out to be totally untrue and unfounded, 5

both about the Big East conference, and about, at 6

least, Notre Dame, which is one of the items you say 7

is important in this letter. 8


characterization of "untrue" as opposed 10

to not happening. 11


Q. Is that true, sir? 13

A. They did not happen. 14

Q. And, in fact, if salaries weren't a major 15

issue, the head coach salaries, what you did is you 16

ran an entire comparison on your program or your 17

computer of all the salaries of the top 25 college 18

football teams at that time ranking-wise, did you not? 19

A. I did. 20

Q. Well, if salary wasn't what you were just 21

trying to up every year at this period of time, why 22

would you give the University at that time, the 23

athletic director, some type of calculation as to what 24

260

other schools are paying, top 25 schools? 1

A. Why would I? 2

Q. Yeah. If you weren't trying to just come 3

in, back in these contracts and trying to jack up the 4

salary every year? 5

A. I wanted to make him aware of what the 6

industry standards were, and as we go forward what 7

would potentially be fair. 8

Q. There wasn't anything to go forward, the 9

contract Was good for four more years, Mr. Brown, at 10

that time. What were you trying to do at that point? 11

Create some bargaining issues? 12


and answered. 14

THE WITNESS: No, I wasn't 15

trying to create bargaining issues. 16


Q. Trying to create some legal issues in the 18

contract, making allegations of reasons not to honor a 19

contract -- 20

A. No, I wasn't. 21

Q. -- substantial and material -- 22

A. No, I wasn't. 23

Q. -- circumstances?24

261

A. No, I wasn't. 1

Q. You do understand that that's some theory 2

in law that people can use for certain contracts, that 3

there is change -- a material change of circumstance? 4

A. That's correct. But let me -- 5

Q. That's not what you were trying to do, is 6

that your testimony, back on February 15th, 2006? 7

MR. ROBON: He didn't have an 8

opportunity to finish his last answer. 9

THE WITNESS: Actually, this 10

correspondence was follow-on to 11

discussions that Eddie Pastilong had 12

initiated in December of '05 in regards 13

to doing an extension for Rich, which led 14

up to the first amendment. 15


Q. Weren't you trying to plan for some type 17

of exit strategy for your customer, Mr. Rodriguez, 18

clear back in February of 2006, some type of 19

separation from employment? 20

A. No, I was not. 21

Q. Because that would be wrong for any 22

person to try to intentionally interfere with a 23

contract and to set up those types of problems in a 24

262

contract. That's not good, is it? 1

MR. ROBON: Objection. Legal 2

conclusion. 3


Q. Is that correct, Mr. Brown? 5

A. Are you speaking in regards to that 6

document right there? 7

Q. No, sir, just in general. 8

A. What's the question again. 9

Q. That's not something that is good is for 10

people to try to go around and try to create problems 11

in contracts for two individuals, for two -- an entity 12

and an individual that have honored their agreement? 13

A. It's what you -- it all depends on 14

what -- 15

Q. Or is that your job, to try to figure out 16

how to get out of these things? 17

A. No, it's not my job. 18


identification.) 20


Q. Let me show you Exhibit 2, Mr. Brown. 22

Just a second. 23

It's a letter from you dated March 28th, 24

263

2006, on LMM stationery. 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. Yes, is that what this is? 3

A. Yes. 4

Q. Is this a letter that was signed by you? 5


Q. Copied to your customer, Rodriguez? 7


Q. All right. And you indicate that you're 9

"the single person specified by Coach Rodriguez to 10

represent his interests regarding contractual issues 11

with the West Virginia University," on February 28th, 12

2006. 13

Did I read that correctly? 14


MR. WAKEFIELD: March 28th. 16

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: March 17

28th, 2006. 18


Q. Did I read that correctly? 20

A. In regards to -- yeah, in regards to 21

point of contact, the first point of contact, the 22

reason this letter was initiated was because Tom Dorer 23

was confused and had not been notified that --24

264

Q. I just asked if I read that -- 1

A. -- Ricky Davis did not no longer 2

represent him. 3

Q. Mr. Brown, I did read that correctly? 4

A. Yes. 5

Q. All right. Did you ever revoke that 6

representation? 7

A. Say it again? 8

Q. Did you ever revoke this representation 9

you made to West Virginia that you're the single 10

person specified by Coach Rodriguez to represent his 11

interests regarding contractual issues with West 12

Virginia University? 13


Q. Is that a true statement? 15

A. In regards to as far as communications 16

and point of contact, I'm the first one they're 17

supposed to get in contact with. 18

Q. Well, I thought you and Metz were both -- 19

there was another person involved and that was Metz, 20

you told me, clear back in '05? 21

A. That's correct. He was -- he is involved 22

and was involved. 23

Q. Is there some reason you didn't disclose 24

265

him as also the representative? 1

A. I didn't want Tom Dorer to be confused 2

and say, Do I call this guy or this guy first. 3

The purpose of the letter was to let Tom 4

know that I was the first point of contact he should 5

have. Maybe I should have worded it different. 6

Q. And in the second-to-last paragraph on 7

Exhibit 2 -- 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. -- you also indicate that Rich and Rita 10

had concerns as to whether West Virginia really wants 11

them, this is in 2006, as part of the University? 12


Q. Well, were you suggesting that they were 14

going to leave at that time because they had hard 15

feelings or bad feelings that the University didn't 16

want the Rodriguezes there? 17

A. No, I never suggested at one time that 18

they wanted to leave. 19

Q. Weren't you trying to suggest subtly at 20

this time and setting up for a -- kind of an amicable 21

separation so Rodriguez could go out and get one of 22

these, what you call premier jobs? 23

A. No.24

266

Q. You would never say something like that, 1

would you? 2

A. No. 3


3. 5


identification.) 7


Q. Let me show you an e-mail -- first of 9

all, at the top up there it has an e-mail address, it 10

has a sign, less than -- I don't know what they call 11

that -- less than lb -- is that -- lb -- 12

A. found. 13

Q. lbfound75 -- 14

A. @aol.com. 15

Q. -- @aol.com, forward marker, whatever 16

that thing is. 17

A. Uh-huh. 18


A. Yes. 20

Q. Is that your e-mail? 21

A. Yes, it is. 22

Q. And did you -- is this an e-mail you sent 23

to Attorney Tom Dorer, who was the counsel for West 24

267

Virginia University at the time? 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. Is that a yes? 3


yes or no. 5

THE WITNESS: Yes, uh-huh. 6


Q. And it indicates that you had been 8

raising issues, specifically item No. 8. 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. About what you called a lack of fairness 11

on behalf of West Virginia University on negotiating 12

specific terms when taking into account the material 13

changes in circumstances. 14

A. Uh-huh. 15

Q. Is that yes? 16

A. Yes. 17

Q. And that's April 3rd of 2006, right? 18


Q. And there's four more years left on this 20

contract -- 21

A. Uh-huh. 22

Q. -- still at that time, is there not? 23

A. Yes, there is.24

268

Q. It's only halfway through the actual 1

contract the two parties had agreed to clear back in 2

December of '02, right? 3

A. Yes, it is. 4

Q. And No. 8, you raise that fairness, and 5

use that language that you put in bold-face, 6

italicized characters, "The material changes in 7

circumstances," again, right? 8


Q. And it sure looks like, aren't you 10

setting up for some type of, at that point, contract 11

separation, to break this contract or to get out of it 12

for your client? 13

A. No. 14


Argumentative. 16

THE WITNESS: No, that's not the 17

case. 18


Q. Well, I thought you were -- wasn't your 20

MO to come up with some amicable separation to save 21

your client some money at that time so you could move 22

him on to higher grounds, in your opinion? 23

A. No.24

269

Q. You would never say something like that, 1

would you? 2

A. No. 3

Q. Would you read the next paragraph out 4

loud in the record. 5

A. Yeah. "Before you and I can begin" -- 6

Q. Slowly. 7

A. Okay. "Before you and I can begin any 8

discussions on behalf of our clients, we need to 9

determine whether we are discussing an amicable 10

separation in the near future or a true commitment and 11

desire by both parties to continue together." 12

Q. Is that language that you chose and 13

selected, the "amicable separation," clear back in 14

April 3, 2006, after using this other language here 15

that we talked about? 16

A. The "amicable separation"? 17

Q. Are those your words? 18

A. Yes, it is. 19

Q. "Amicable separation in the near future." 20


Q. You were setting up trying to breach this 22

contract back in April 3 of 2006, looking for grounds, 23

weren't you? 24

270

A. No, Rich -- 1


THE WITNESS: Rich and -- 3

MR. ROBON: Ah, ah, ah -- let me 4

speak, please. 5

THE WITNESS: Sure. 6

MR. ROBON: I'm not -- I'm just 7

not a wallflower here. 8

Objection. Argumentative. 9

THE WITNESS: Do you want me to 10

answer it? 11

MR. ROBON: You can answer it. 12

THE WITNESS: No. Rich and Rita 13

Rodriguez were quite upset emotionally, 14

and they had true questions whether or 15

not President Hardesty and the people at 16

West Virginia really wanted them there. 17


Q. Would you read the last paragraph into 19

the record? 20

A. The very last one? 21

Q. Yes. 22

A. On the last page? 23

Q. Yes, there's only two pages, sir. 24

271

A. Okay. 1

Q. It's right before your name. 2

A. "Again, I request a meeting as soon as 3

possible in this matter between Mr. Hardesty, you and 4

the Rodriguezes to see if it's best to be working 5

toward an amicable separation or a commitment fair to 6

both parties and within industry standards that exist 7

today and not three years ago. Dates available are," 8

such and such, such and such, such and such. 9

Q. So you certainly, on at least two 10

occasions in that e-mail clear back to April 3, 2006, 11

at least threatened the school that there was going to 12

be some type of separation between Rodriguez and the 13

university, despite a contract existing for at least 14

four more years at that point? 15

A. I did not -- 16


THE WITNESS: Okay. 18

MR. ROBON: To the use of the 19

word threatening. 20

THE WITNESS: I did not 21

threaten. I brought up the issue again 22

that Rich and Rita wanted to meet with 23

President Hardesty and Tom Dorer; they 24

272

had issues that they wanted to address; 1

they were very emotionally upset about 2

some of the things that were going on. 3


identification.) 5



A. Uh-huh. 8

Q. Is this an e-mail that you forwarded to 9

Attorney Tom Dorer representing the University on 10

April 3rd, also the same day? Do you see your e-mail 11

address at the top where it says "from"? 12

A. Uh-huh. 13

Q. Does that look like something you would 14

have sent? 15

A. Yes, it is. 16

Q. It's an article about Rodriguez? 17


Q. And you're saying that it wasn't all 19

about salary and trying to jack up Rodriguez's salary 20

every year. 21

Would you read that second paragraph on 22

the front of your note from Sporting News? 23

A. I don't have a second page with a note. 24

273

Hold on a second. 1

Q. It's the first page, sir, right on the 2

first page after it says, "You have received this from 3

Mike Brown." 4

A. Uh-huh. 5

Q. And then what's typed in there? 6

A. (Reading:) According to this, Rich, his 7

staff and the WVU program was worth a lot more than 8

what the WVU administration and representative feel. 9

Q. Why were you saying that? They had a 10

contract for four more years at that point where 11

salaries had been specified, increases every year had 12

been specified; weren't you trying to set it up, sir, 13

just alleging that Rodriguez somehow had had a couple 14

good seasons and you wanted more money on salary? 15

A. No. This was in the middle of 16

negotiations with West Virginia. 17

Q. There's four more years on the contract; 18

west Virginia didn't have to sit down with Rodriguez 19

at all and even talk to him about the contract. 20

A. Ed Pastilong met with me and requested a 21

meeting at the Sugar Bowl in 2005, and we started 22

discussing an extension in the first amendment there. 23

This was still in the process there, and we were 24

274

having conversations going back and forth that led up 1

to the June 1st amendment. 2

Q. West Virginia had a binding contract at 3

that time clear to 2010, didn't they? 4

A. They did. 5

Q. And you were sending things about the 6

value of your customer, Rodriguez, on a regular basis, 7

right? 8

A. Yeah. Because we were in the middle of 9

negotiations leading up to the first amendment. They 10

had started in December of '05. 11

Q. And you were making allegations of 12

changed circumstances, which potentially could affect 13

the validity of the contract; on a regular basis you 14

were doing that, weren't you? 15

A. No. It had to be looked into, as we were 16

addressing the first amendment. 17

Q. The prior e-mail that we've talked about, 18

Exhibit 3 -- 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. -- looks like a lot of the items that you 21

wanted to address were kind of just like hard 22

feelings, that the Rodriguezes maybe felt that 23

somebody had said something and they were maybe 24

275

offended by statements that had been made by some 1

people associated with the -- with the university; is 2

that -- 3

A. Oh, what letter are you looking at there? 4

Q. It's Exhibit 3 that you just looked at 5

right before. 6

A. Oh, Exhibit 3. 7

MR. ROBON: Why don't you hold 8

on a second. 9


Q. For example -- Brown 3. 11

A. Okay. 12

Q. -- unprofessional comments made by 13

Hardesty and the fact that the athletic director 14

didn't go down and shake hands after a win or 15

something, one time after a game? 16

A. No, it didn't have to do with that. 17

Q. It didn't? 18

A. No. 19

Q. No. 5 there says -- it says that 20

you're -- "Lack of visual support by the University 21

President and Athletic Director of a Top Twenty BCS 22

program." 23

A. Uh-huh. 24

276

Q. "Most top programs I am associated with 1

and visit, their President and AD meet the team as 2

they are leaving the field for every home and away 3

game." 4

Is that something -- I mean, does our 5

football coach, Rodriguez, does he have to have people 6

wave good-bye and hello to him, is that something 7

important for some type of agreement that exists for 8

four more years? 9

A. What's important with Rich is that he has 10

the full support of the athletic director and the 11

president, and they want to have an active involvement 12

in the program, want to see it do well and be 13

involved. He likes to have a team and have everybody 14

included in the whole athletic department and 15

administration. He likes to see them involved in the 16

program. 17

Q. By the way, most top programs that you 18

were associated with, what football program were you 19

associated with? I thought you were a customer rep. 20


Q. It says, "Most top programs I'm 22

associated with." 23

A. Uh-huh.24

277

Q. Who were you talking about? 1

A. I have contacts and friends at various 2

universities that I go and visit, talk with. I'm 3

their guest, and things like that. 4

Q. Well, who are you associated with? I 5

mean, did you have any formal programs that somehow 6

they had hired you for some job or something -- 7

A. No. 8

Q. -- that you knew about? 9

A. Huh-uh. 10

Q. No? 11

A. No. 12

Q. Can you identify what those top programs 13

are that you were associated with, that you were -- or 14

were you just kind of maybe just shooting the bull a 15

little bit? 16

A. No, I'm -- 17


THE WITNESS: Objection. I 19

represent coaches at other schools that I 20

often would go watch their games, see, as 21

the team leaves and that, the involvement 22

of the president and the athletic 23

director in their programs. 24

278


Q. How many of these top programs do you go 2

to? Do you go to USC or something and go watch to see 3

the president wave good-bye on the bus or plane to the 4

teammates, team players -- 5

A. No. 6

Q. -- and stuff? 7

A. No. 8

Q. Notre Dame, have you been to Notre Dame, 9

have you been to Notre Dame and watched their 10

president and athletic director every time wave to the 11

players when they leave and come back? 12


Argumentative. 14

THE WITNESS: No. 15


Q. I just want you to identify these -- 17

A. What schools -- 18

Q. -- top programs that you allege you are 19

associated with? 20

A. I've been to see games at Virginia Tech; 21

I've been to Clemson; I've been to Alabama; I've -- 22

Q. I'm not asking what games. I've been to 23

a lot of games, too. I'm asking you what programs 24

279

you're associated with where the president and 1

athletic director always goes out and welcomes and 2

says good-bye to the players? 3

A. I was naming programs. I had 4

associations with coaches that are involved in those 5

programs and I've been able to go down there and 6

witness those things. 7

Q. Okay. So you're saying that Virginia 8

Tech, is that one of the schools you picked out? 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. What other schools? 11

A. Florida. 12

Q. The University of Florida? 13


Q. Okay. The University of Florida. 15

A. Alabama. 16

Q. And Alabama? 17

A. Yeah. Clemson. 18

Q. And Clemson. You go and you watch the 19

presidents and the athletic directors always wave 20

good-bye to their players when they -- 21

A. I've been there and witnessed it, been 22

very impressed by it. 23

Q. Is that something that Rich Rodriguez, 24

280

did he just feel that he needed that type of 1

involvement from the University, that people had to 2

come and say hello and good-bye when they were leaving 3

for a game or whatever? 4


Argumentative. 6


Q. Was that something important enough that 8

you put it in a letter in April of '06? 9

A. It was important enough that he wanted 10

the athletic director and the president to be a part 11

of the program. 12


identification.) 14


Q. Let me show you Exhibit 7. This is May 16

22nd of 2006. 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. Sports Management, LLM -- LMM, sorry. Is 19

this a letter that you would have authored back then? 20

A. May 25th, 2006, yes. 21

Q. And I notice next to your name when you 22

sign these, there's no initials. Sometimes my 23

secretary puts her initials next to that. 24

281

Do you type your own letters -- 1

A. I do. 2

Q. -- in your office? 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. You don't have a secretary? 5

A. No. 6

Q. In the -- in this letter you talk about 7

liquidated damages. Do you see that? 8

A. Yes. 9

Q. All right. And you acknowledge that your 10

customer Rodriguez did request the 2 million dollars 11

in the liquidated damage clause. 12

That's about midway through the third 13

paragraph. It says, "Coach Rodriguez did request the 14

2M," I assume million, "Liquidated Damages clause in 15

the event he was terminated." 16

Do you see that? 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. Is that yes? 19

A. Yes. 20

Q. Did I read that correctly? 21

A. Yes. 22

Q. And then you're, clear back in May of 23

'06, talking about liquidated damages, and you 24

282

indicate in the fourth -- I think it's the fourth 1

paragraph, it says, "We concurred, again since neither 2

of us was involved in the 2002 negotiation, the basis 3

behind the current terms is the amount should be the 4

same for both sides, i.e., in case the University 5

terminated Coach Rodriguez without cause or 6

Coach Rodriguez did not fulfill his contract." 7


A. Where are you at again? 9

Q. I'm in the fourth paragraph of what you 10

wrote there, about it should be the same for both 11

sides. 12

A. Uh-huh. 13


A. Okay. Yeah -- okay. Hold on a second. 15

So what's your question again? 16

Q. You concurred, at least according to 17

that -- my question was, Did I read that correctly. 18

It says, "we concurred," meaning you, 19

"again since neither of us was involved in the 2002 20

negotiation, the basis behind the current terms is the 21

amount should be the same for both sides, i.e., in 22

case the University terminated Coach Rodriguez without 23

cause or Coach Rodriguez did not fulfill his 24

283

contract." 1



Q. All right. 4

A. That was -- eric Metz and I had a meeting 5

with Tom Dorer in his office sometime before that 6

date, and that was one of the outcomes of the meeting 7

that we both agreed to. 8

Q. And back at that time, Rodriguez was 9

making less than a million dollars, and you felt that 10

the 2 million in liquidated damages was at least fair 11

at that time, back then? 12


Q. Yes. I think Coach Rodriguez was making 14

less than a million at that time, and you felt at that 15

time, at least, the 2 million in the first amendment 16

was fair, so far as liquidated damages? 17

A. I thought -- no, I never did say that the 18

2 million was fair. You stated what is fair -- what 19

is fair when Eric asked that amount on both sides be 20

the same. 21

Q. A month later, you agreed to the first 22

amendment of 2 million dollars in liquidated damages, 23

did you not? 24

284

A. Rich Rodriguez did. 1

Q. And so did you. You approved that first 2

amendment? 3

A. I gave him counsel and advice on that. 4

Q. Did you tell him not to sign the first 5

amendment? 6

A. No, I did not. 7

Q. Okay. So you approved of the first 8

amendment, at least, up to that point? 9


Argumentative. 11

THE WITNESS: He's the one to 12

approve it. 13


Q. He has the final decision, doesn't he? 15

A. That's correct, yeah, he does. 16

Q. But you didn't object to the 2 million as 17

unfair? 18




Q. You can't recall. In that Exhibit No. 7, 22

you also talked about websites, and you wanted to have 23

a website so that additional money could be generated 24

285

towards the football program. 1


Q. You actually talked about the Virginia 3

Tech program and Frank Beamer? 4


Q. And you understand that there were 6

problems that ultimately arose as a result of that 7

particular website function down at Virginia Tech. 8

Were you aware of that? 9

A. I'm not aware of any. 10

Q. And the additional revenue, what would 11

that be? Would you get a commission on that? 12

A. No, I would not. I spoke with Coach 13

Beamer about his website, and he never indicated to me 14

about any problems with it down there. And also the 15

person who runs it for them. 16

Q. Was there some -- is there a problem that 17

potentially that gamblers or people that are sports 18

bettors and stuff like that can get on websites and 19

get information? 20

A. I don't know of any problem. I know 21

Coach Beamer's website still exists today. He has, I 22

think, thousands of subscribers to it, and Virginia 23

Tech still lets him run it.24

286

Q. I mean, you would agree with me things 1

like access or information that people would have in 2

Division I college sports, if the information is used 3

for betting purposes or gambling purposes, that's a 4

very bad, terrible thing, isn't it? 5

A. It is. But there's lots of universities 6

that allow their head coaches to have websites. 7

Q. I understand. But, I mean, certainly in 8

that business, whether it be coaches or even agents, 9

even though you don't have anybody overseeing and 10

directing your ethics, that would be a terrible, 11

terrible thing for people to be betting or obtaining 12

information as to Division I programs through any 13

source, whether it be a website or somebody just 14

calling and giving inside information; that's bad 15

stuff, isn't it? 16

A. It is. 17


THE WITNESS: The NCAA guards 19

against that regularly. The NCAA hasn't 20

banned coaches from having their 21

websites. 22


Q. I didn't ask you that, did I? I just 24

287

asked about gambling, betting on sports, in particular 1

football, how bad and terrible a problem it would be 2

if there was inside information or people -- 3


Q. -- betting on games in your profession, 5

in your business and coaching business; is that right? 6


Q. Because you're an agent of the coach, so 8

you have inside information, right? 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. Yes? 11

A. Yes. 12

Q. All right. I know it's a little bit out 13

of order, Mr. Brown, but I just wanted to go back so I 14

don't forget. 15

When you had the discussions with 16

Rodriguez on the term sheet of 12-8-06, what did -- 17

who did Rodriguez tell you he had spoken to, if 18

anybody, before he signed that term sheet? 19

A. He had told me he had spoken with 20

Ed Pastilong, Steve Goodwin, and Steve Farmer. He had 21

spoken to Rita. Those are the four that I have 22

knowledge of. 23

Q. What did he -- did he tell you as to 24

288

individuals what they said, or did he just tell you 1

generally? 2

A. He told me -- I specifically remember two 3

comments he made that individuals said to him. 4

Q. Okay. Tell me which individual. What 5

did he say as to each individual? 6

A. He told me that Steve Farmer -- 7

Q. As best as you can recall, specific 8

language. 9

A. Best -- he told me that Steve Farmer -- 10

let's go back. 11

Coach said he objected to the 4 million 12

dollar buyout. Steve Farmer told him that he and 13

other Board of Governors members were told by donors 14

putting up the money for the salary raise, the 15

renovations and that, that the 4 million dollar -- 16

that the buyout had to be in there. 17

Q. "There" is for the term sheet? 18

A. For the term sheet. 19

Q. Okay. So Farmer basically said the 20

buyout, because of other people, has to be in the term 21

sheet? 22

A. And it has to be 4 million -- that they 23

recommended the 4 million dollars.24

289

Q. Okay. 1

MR. ROBON: "They," the donors 2

or -- 3

THE WITNESS: The donors, the 4

donors. That's one comment. 5


Q. All right. What's the other one? 7

A. The other comment was that Steve Farmer 8

kept telling him over and over that things will be 9

okay, that, you know, the improvements -- 10

Q. There is Farmer again, that's who you 11

said -- 12

A. Farmer -- Farmer -- yeah, Rich told me 13

that Farmer told him that things were going to be 14

okay, that the athletic department, things will change 15

after a new president is put in, and that 16

Mike Garrison is going to be the new president. And 17

that was on December 8, 2006. 18

Q. Okay. Was there any specifics made as to 19

who these alleged donors were that you say Rodriguez 20

told you about? 21

A. I remember he -- I do remember at some 22

point in time he did mention Ken Kendrick and 23

Bob Reynolds.24

290

Q. Did he mention specifics as to how much 1

or -- 2

A. No, he did not. 3

Q. Did he allege that if the donors somehow 4

didn't come through and pay their contributions that 5

somehow the -- the University would come back and try 6

to change his salary, the increase that they gave him, 7

according to the term sheet? 8

A. Say it again? 9

Q. Yeah. Did he say that if donors somehow 10

die or don't give money to the University, that 11

somehow his salary is going to decrease, and he's 12

going to lose his salary or anything like that? 13

A. No, he never said that. 14

Q. All right. Okay. And did you say 15

another person, also you cited information as to 16

another person saying something in this conversation. 17

You identified Steve Farmer. 18

A. Yeah. He only made two comments to me, 19

one -- in both of them, he referenced Steve Farmer. 20

Q. Okay. 21

A. As being the one who made those two 22

different statements. 23

Q. Nothing was said specifically as to 24

291

Pastilong, Goodwin, or his wife Rita? 1

A. No. 2

Q. Did you ask how Rita felt about it? 3

A. No, I did not. 4

Q. Now, you told me earlier that at some 5

point, I think your date was December 16th, you 6

felt -- strike that. 7

The ownership of the website, who was to 8

own the website that you had referenced in a previous 9

e-mail, the website? 10

A. I can't recall whether it would have 11

been -- whether it would have been -- I can't recall 12

exactly who would have the ownership of it. 13

Q. You've talked about what you call your 14

due diligence and that. I assume through your due 15

diligence you would have run liquidated damage clauses 16

through Mr. Metz or other members of LMM if you didn't 17

feel totally 100 percent comfortable with the amount? 18


You can answer. 20


question. 22


Q. Yeah. Did you talk about the liquidated 24

292

damage with your fee-sharing person, Mr. Metz? 1

A. Yeah. We've -- we've had discussions on 2

it, as you can tell on the previous letter on the 3

meeting that we had with Tom Dorer. 4

Q. So Mr. Metz participated in prediscussion 5

about the liquidated damages as you went along from 6

'05, the summer of '05, all the way until the last 7

amendment, and that would have been August 24th of 8

'07. 9

A. At certain points in time, I may have 10

contacted Eric, and we had discussions about it, but 11

it wasn't on a constant basis. 12

Q. By the way, did you ever calculate the 13

damages that would occur to Rich Rodriguez if the 14

University got rid of him? 15


Q. Did you ever attempt to do that? 17


Q. Do you know if anybody did? 19

A. No, I do not. 20

Q. You understand liquidated damages are a 21

prediction, a prognostication, what are reasonable as 22

to what damages a certain person or entity would have 23

in the event a contract is terminated?24

293

A. Yes. 1

Q. Did you ever calculate the University's 2

damages when you were advising him as to the 3

liquidated damage provisions in the first amendment 4

and second amendment? 5


Q. Did you ever calculate or attempt to 7

calculate the University's damages for either the 8

first amendment or the second amendment? 9

A. No. 10

Q. So as you sit here today, is it fair to 11

say that you basically don't have any specific clue as 12

to what damages either party would have in the event 13

of a termination of contract as it relates to 14

liquidated damages? 15


You can answer that. 17

THE WITNESS: Say it again 18

now. 19


Q. Yes. Back when these agreements were 21

entered into, the first amendment and the second 22

amendment, did you have any clue as to what damages 23

would be occasioned by either party in the event of a 24

294

termination at that time, or is that something that 1

you just didn't consider? 2

MR. ROBON: At the time, you 3

mean? 4

MR. FITZSIMMONS: I said "at the 5

time." I used that specific language. 6

THE WITNESS: Yeah. At the time 7

I didn't sit down and make a bunch of 8

assumptions and put a bunch of numbers in 9

and calculate a number, no, I did not. 10


Q. You didn't do that. As meticulous as you 12

are, you didn't do that, is that right? 13

A. Uh-huh. 14

Q. That's a yes, you did not? 15

A. Yes, I did not do that. 16

Q. You didn't do it in writing. Did you 17

talk to somebody and break down the damages as to 18

substantial damages that could occur? 19

A. I have -- I reviewed my data; I had 20

discussions with other people in the industry. It's 21

not a common practice for either athletic directors or 22

agents to sit down and, prior to doing contracts, go 23

opinion by opinion, assumption by assumption, what 24

295

liquidated damages are. 1

What I did do was constantly do a review 2

of standard language in all BCS Division I coaches' 3

contracts, from the data that I could get hold of, and 4

reviewed all kinds of contract terms and conditions. 5

Q. Did you believe that West Virginia's 6

program, the level that it rose to in '06 and '07 -- 7

which we can agree rose to a very high level, did it 8

not? 9

A. It did. 10

Q. And in your opinion, that principally, 11

almost exclusively, was as a result of your customer, 12

Rich Rodriguez? 13

A. It was the result of a great team effort 14

by a lot of people. 15

Q. Was it -- was it principally headed by 16

Rodriguez? 17


and answered. 19

You can answer again. 20

THE WITNESS: He was the head 21

football coach. 22


Q. So is that a yes?24

296

A. It's like in football. The quarterback 1

gets too much credit when they win and takes too much 2

blame when they lose. It's a team effort. 3

Q. So you think -- you think Rodriguez got 4

too much credit for the level it was; is that what 5

you're saying? 6

A. It all depends on what your level of 7

credit is. I mean, he headed up a football program 8

that was successful. 9

Q. Did you feel that he had risen through 10

that program to a high market value as a coach? 11

A. I though he did a great job of 12

representing West Virginia and coaching those young 13

men and getting the most out of them that he could. 14

Q. Did you approve of the Michigan 15

liquidated damage clause of 4 million dollars? 16

A. Did I approve of it? 17

Q. Yeah. The same clause, same amount that 18

West Virginia had? 19

MR. ROBON: Same objection. 20

You can answer. 21

THE WITNESS: Rich Rodriguez 22

instructed me to -- 23


297

Q. My question was did you approve it or 1

not. 2

A. I approved. 3

Q. Did you allege to Michigan that the 4

liquidated damage or buyout clause, whatever they call 5

it, in the term sheet was a penalty? 6

A. Say it again. 7

Q. Did you ever tell Michigan when you 8

were -- I take it you did talk with Michigan and 9

Mr. Martin? 10

A. I did. 11

Q. Did you ever tell them that you felt the 12

4 million dollar -- they call it a buyout clause in 13

their term agreement, or liquidated damage clause, did 14

you ever tell them that you felt it was a penalty? 15

A. No. I cannot recall. 16

Q. You can't recall from a couple -- couple 17

months ago -- 18

A. Uh-huh. 19

Q. -- but you can recall -- 20

MR. ROBON: It's more than a 21

couple months ago. It's five months 22

ago. 23


298

Q. Okay. A few months, five months, 1

whatever it is -- 2

A. Uh-huh. 3

Q. -- back in -- 4


Q. January -- when was it signed? December 6

of -- 7

A. It was signed on -- 8

Q. December of '07? 9

A. It was signed on December 16th of '07. 10

His letter -- 11

Q. Okay. You don't recall telling -- you 12

have no specific recollection of telling Mr. Martin, 13

Mr. Martin, this is a penalty for my client, my 14

customer? 15


Q. You don't recall ever having used those 17

words to Michigan in those negotiations; is that true? 18

A. I can't remember. 19

Q. I said, You can't recall -- 20


Q. -- having ever said that to Michigan; is 22

that a true statement? 23

A. That's a true statement.24

299

Q. All right. 1

MR. ROBON: Keep feeding him 2

those questions, we're going to be here 3

until midnight. 4


identification.) 6


Q. The exhibit you have -- let me show you 8

Exhibit 8. 9

MR. ROBON: We don't have 8. 10

MR. WAKEFIELD: We haven't used 11

it yet. 12

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Oh, that's 13

right. 14

MR. WAKEFIELD: You can use 15

mine. 8, number 8. 16

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: I'll 17

grab it. 18


Q. This is a letter of June, 2006. Do you 20

see that? 21

A. Uh-huh. 22

Q. Is that a yes, sir? 23

A. Yeah, I see the letter from Tom Dorer.24

300

Q. June 6, 2006. 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. Do you have any reason to allege that you 3

didn't receive this letter from Mr. Dorer to you? 4

A. No, I do not have any reason. 5

Q. That is your address there; is it not? 6

A. That is correct. 7

Q. And on the bottom of the first page, 8

Mr. Dorer specifically advised you in June of '06 they 9

were aware of these Virginia Tech arrangements you 10

talked about, the website, and they had been informed 11

by the Virginia Tech officials that the model, talking 12

about the website, has created hardships for the 13

institution. 14

Do you see that? 15

A. I see it. 16

Q. Did you investigate that to determine 17

whether that statement was correct, whether the 18

officials of Virginia Tech indicated they had had 19

hardships as a result of the website program that was 20

up and running? 21

A. Yeah. You know what I did? I called 22

Frank Beamer, the head coach at -- 23

Q. Did you investigate, is that yes?24

301

A. Yes, I did. 1

Q. Are you aware of Texas Tech's problems -- 2

MR. WAKEFIELD: Texas A & M. 3


Q. Texas A & M. 5

A. Yes, I am aware of the Texas A & M's. 6

Q. Oh, so you are aware of other schools 7

having problems with the website so far as their 8

football programs were concerned; is that right? 9

A. There was one -- there was one program 10

that had an issue with. 11

Q. You're aware of Texas A & M having 12

problems with it? 13

A. I am aware. 14

Q. Mr. Dorer's statement as to the Virginia 15

Tech officials advising him that they had had 16

hardships as a result of that also -- 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. -- did you ever specifically investigate 19

and ask for names of officials so that you could 20

verify or not verify that information? 21

A. I did not ask Tom Dorer, but I got on the 22

phone and called Frank Beamer, the head coach at 23

Virginia Tech, directly and asked him about it. 24

302

Q. Okay. Did you ever talk to the officials 1

at the University as to whether it was causing a 2

hardship for the university as opposed to these 3

coaches that were -- 4

A. The only official I knew down at Virginia 5

Tech was Frank Beamer. That's who he called. 6

Q. So you didn't call any officials from the 7

school then; is that true? 8

A. No, I did not -- yes, I did. I called 9

Frank Beamer. He's an official at the school. 10

Q. One of the administrative officials, 11

Mr. Brown. 12

A. No, none of the administrative officials. 13

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Now, I'm going 14

to show you Exhibit 11. Before I show 15

you that, our videographer has advised us 16

we have two minutes, so we'll accommodate 17

him at this time, okay. 18


record at 2:53. 20

(A brief recess was had) 21




303




A. Uh-huh. 4


A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. Is that a yes? 7

A. Yes, I do. 8

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Could 9

you answer "yes" so I don't have to 10

remind you? 11


MR. ROBON: Yeah. The court 13

reporter can't put the shakes of the head 14

or "uh-huh" or "huh-uh." 15


she can -- 17

MR. ROBON: It's confusing. 18


but it's subject to interpretation at 20

times. 21


Q. Second-to-last paragraph, this is a 23

letter from West Virginia's counsel on August 15, 24

304

2006, which is nine days before the second amendment 1

was signed by Mr. Rodriguez; is that correct? 2


Q. All right. This is after you had milled 4

through the agreements looking at the provisions, 5

adding provisions, subtracting provisions and advising 6

your customer; is that right? 7

A. Yeah. And after all of the 8

correspondence -- 9


A. After all the correspondence back and 11

forth that you previously referred to, yes. 12

Q. All right. In the second-to-last 13

paragraph, you were specifically advised again as to 14

the meaning of provision Article X, Roman numeral X, 15

that if there is going to be any agreement between 16

these parties, it has to be in writing. 17

A. What paragraph again? 18

Q. Second to the last. Is that correct? 19


Q. So not only did you read it numerous 21

times in doing the first amendment and preparing for 22

this second amendment, which was nine days later, 23

Mr. Dorer specifically advised you by letter also that 24

305

any agreement has to be in writing and signed by the 1

parties; is that true? 2


answer. 4


Q. After the first amendment, I'm sorry. 6

A. Yeah, after the first amendment, yes. 7

Q. You were advised again in writing that 8

after having executed the first amendment just shortly 9

before this, a couple of months before this particular 10

letter, that anything in writing, anything that was 11

going to be agreed upon by the parties had to be in 12

writing and signed by the parties; is that correct? 13

A. He sent that letter with that statement 14

in it, yes. 15

Q. Well, did you write back at any point and 16

tell him, You're wrong, you could have all kinds of 17

side agreements, these things don't really mean what 18

they say, did you ever write back and tell him that? 19


Q. Did you ever write to anybody in the 21

world and tell them? 22


Q. All right. Okay. Did you present that 24

306

to your -- Mr. Metz, also, that letter? 1

A. No, I did not. 2

Q. How about to Mr. Rodriguez? 3

A. No, I did not. 4

Q. Just kept it to yourself about everything 5

had to be in writing and signed by the parties? 6

A. No. In regards to Coach Rodriguez, I 7

can't recall. I usually did keep him informed of 8

every letter that I received from the University, and 9

then also he looked at every letter prior until I sent 10

it in to the University. 11

I had a long-standing policy on that. 12

Prior to sending any letter, he would look at it, 13

review it, and approve it before I would send it in. 14

Q. Now, do you know what time, 15

approximately, the day Rodriguez had signed the term 16

agreement with West Virginia in December of '06? 17

A. Do I know approximately what time? 18

Q. Yes, sir. 19

A. I do not know approximately what time he 20

signed it. 21

Q. All right. But you said the first thing 22

you did early in the morning was fax the term sheet, 23

the offer from Alabama, to Rodriguez on December 8th 24

307

of '06? 1

A. On Friday, December 8th, yes. 2

Q. And that was early in the morning. 3


Q. You said you got up and you did that 5

first thing and he was in the office by himself, you 6

think? 7

A. Yes. 8

Q. You understood he received it, because 9

you guys talked about it then? 10

A. Yes. 11

Q. The term agreement that West Virginia had 12

in December, did you consider that an agreement that 13

was to be signed by the parties, at least at that 14

point? 15





Q. The term sheet that was signed, is that 20

an agreement with the parties when they sign it, as 21

you understand, as an agent? 22

A. It's an agreement where I believe it's 23

stated in there that both parties will work together 24

308

and move forward to turn it into a contract. 1

Q. It's kind of a predecessor agreement to a 2

full written contract; is that how it's done in your 3

business? 4

A. Yeah. But more -- it's -- some people do 5

it that way; some people just go straight to a 6

contract. 7

Q. All right. But it's a term -- it's an 8

agreement? 9

A. It's an agreement. 10


THE WITNESS: Both -- as it says 12

in the term sheet, both parties are going 13

to work and abide by the confidentiality 14

agreement, they're going to move forward 15

and try to get an agreement in place, I 16

believe. 17




Q. Let me show you Exhibit 12. This is an 21

article that was published -- 22

A. Uh-huh. 23

Q. -- on December 8th, which hit the 24

309

afternoon papers. 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. This says in the one, two, three, four, 3

five, "While Rodriguez admitted that Mike Brown, his 4

agent, had talked at length with UA officials," which 5

is University of Alabama, "he said he didn't know 6

anything about any agreement ready for him to sign or 7

approve." 8

Your understanding was he had already had 9

a term sheet in hand the morning of December 8th, and 10

the day before that, you went in and basically 11

hammered out, at least, proposals to present to your 12

client some agreement; is that right? 13

A. So what's the question again? 14

Q. I was pointing out that. Do you see 15

that, that paragraph, Rodriguez says he wasn't aware 16

of any type of agreement ready for him to sign or 17

approve? 18

A. At what point in time? 19

Q. Whatever time we have the publication for 20

that thing. I'm just asking you, time-wise. 21

A. Well, it says this thing is on December 22

8, 2006, at 3:07 a.m., and at that point in time, on 23

that Friday morning, that point in time, Rich did not 24

310

know that there was an agreement that I had in hand 1

and was getting ready to fax to him. 2

Q. All right. 3

A. I had not talked to Rich Rodriguez since 4

about midday on that Thursday until I talked to him on 5

Friday morning. He was busy going down to the Gator 6

Bowl press conference and flying back. 7

Q. So there shouldn't be any cell phone 8

calls from you on the 7th; is that right? 9

A. That's -- to Rich? 10

Q. Yes. 11

A. There may have been some calls that were 12

not answered, or maybe left a message or something, 13

but I did not talk to Rich personally until Friday 14

morning on December 8th, 2006. 15

Q. Well, you went back on the 7th to your 16

hotel room with a term sheet, did you not? 17

A. I did. 18

Q. Ready to be signed and approved and 19

presented to Mr. Rodriguez; is that right? 20

A. Ready to be presented to him so he could 21

evaluate it. 22

Q. Do you agree that the 4 million dollar 23

liquidated damage clause or buyout clause with 24

311

Michigan is not a penalty? 1



Q. Based on your experience as an agent. 4





Q. Do you agree that the 4 million 9

liquidated damage or buyout clause at Michigan is not 10

a penalty? 11

A. In Rich's case, that's not a penalty. 12

Q. And do you agree that that's a valid, 13

effective, binding provision on Rich Rodriguez at 14

Michigan? 15


THE WITNESS: Do it -- say it -- 17

repeat the question. 18


Q. Let me ask you this way: You certainly 20

wouldn't want -- or wouldn't advise your clients, your 21

customers, to sign any contract that had improper or 22

illegal provisions in it, or void provisions, would 23

you?24

312


THE WITNESS: To the best of my 2

knowledge, I would not. 3


Q. All right. So anything that you would 5

have approved or allowed your client to ultimately 6

sign, you would not have felt that those provisions 7

were improper? 8


THE WITNESS: No. Because 10

previously I had advised Rich that I 11

thought like, for example, that they were 12

improper, and I advised him not to sign 13

it, but he did. 14




Q. All right. The term sheet, which is 18

Exhibit 13, this is the term sheet signed December 8, 19

'06, by Rodriguez? 20

A. Uh-huh. 21

Q. You've seen that before? 22

A. Yes, I have. 23

Q. It provides for 4 million dollars in 24

313

liquidated damages for both parties, right? 1


Q. And did you advise Mr. Rodriguez that 3

that was an illegal provision on behalf of the 4

University? 5



Q. As to the University -- the University 8

paying Rodriguez 4 million dollars? 9


THE WITNESS: I advised him that 11

I thought the buyout amount was unfair 12

and advised him not to sign the term 13

sheet. 14


Q. Did you advise him that in your opinion 16

you felt it was not binding? 17




Q. All right. You understood that was your 21

advice, just your opinion, but Rodriguez was the final 22

decision-maker that would make the ultimate decision? 23


314

Q. And he, to your knowledge, agreed to do 1

that and signed this agreement? 2

A. He did. 3

Q. And you understand -- 4


to the term "term sheet" as an agreement. 6


Q. You understand that Dave Hardesty was the 8

president at West Virginia University at that time? 9

A. Yes, I do understand that. 10

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Let's 11

get 14. 12




Q. The bottom of Exhibit 14 -- it's a, first 16

of all, letter from you; is that correct? 17


Q. All right. And this particular letter 19

that you wrote, it has a -- on the letterhead it has 20

an Arizona address, although you sign off your name 21

with your home address where your office is? 22


Q. Is that correct?24

315


Q. All right. It says, Mr. Wilcox and his 2

team, how many team members were there for the Wilcox 3

team that was helping Rodriguez? 4

A. Where is that at now? 5

Q. It's in the second- and the third-to-last 6

lines, "Mr. Wilcox and his team." 7

A. It was Mr. Wilcox, Dave Hammack, and 8

Bennett Speyer. 9

Q. Is Hammack an attorney? 10

A. He's a CPA. 11

Q. CPA. 12

A. Uh-huh. 13

Q. So they -- a CPA, an attorney, and Wilcox 14

is what, a financial advisor? 15

A. When I wrote this at this time, I was not 16

aware that Mr. Speyer was an attorney. 17

Q. I understand. But this team, I'm just 18

trying to get the credentials of those people. 19

A. Sure. 20

Q. Wilcox, is he rather a reputable 21

financial advisor up here in the Toledo area? 22

A. Internationally -- 23

Q. He's an international financial guy on 24

316

Rodriguez's team? 1


Q. Speyer is a lawyer, does pensions, 3

deferred tax-type stuff, right? 4


Q. And who else did you say was there? 6

A. Dave Hammack. 7

Q. Dave Hammack, who is a CPA, right? 8


Q. And you were part of that team also, 10

right? 11

A. That's correct. Well, yeah. 12

Q. And this is before the second amendment 13

was signed, this letter; is that right? 14


Q. So Mr. Rodriguez had all those 16

professionals advising him and still signed the 17

contract -- or the amendment, August 24th, '07? 18



Q. They were still all part of the team, 21

were they not? 22

A. They were all part of the team. 23

Q. All right. 24

317

MR. ROBON: Move to strike. 1


Q. The attachment that's on this letter, who 3

typed that, do you know? 4

A. I did. 5

Q. These suggestions that you made to be 6

included in the contract or to be deleted from the 7

contract, both? 8

A. Hold on a second. Those were changes 9

that I had recommended. 10

Q. These were changes that you, yourself, 11

had requested; is that right? 12


Q. This is for the second amendment to the 14

employment contract; is that right? 15


Q. Did you request that the liquidated 17

damage clause for either party be deleted? 18

A. Not at this time. 19

Q. All right. And there were some specific 20

things that were being negotiated that you asked be 21

included as part of the negotiations; is that right? 22

A. Yes. 23

Q. Okay. One was item No. 6, the assistant 24

318

coach salary pool? 1

A. Yes. 2

Q. Was that added to the second amendment -- 3

the second amendment? 4

A. Can you give me -- can I have a copy of 5

the second amendment, or do I already have it? 6

Q. You don't recall -- you have it there. 7

It's one the first documents you have. 8

MR. ROBON: Way at the bottom. 9

MR. FITZSIMMONS: It's 50 -- 10

MR. ROBON: 53, I think. It's 11

toward -- I think the second-to-the-last 12

page, those two items, that and Puskar. 13


Q. Was the subject matter addressed in the 15

contract in the second amendment? 16

A. It was. 17

Q. Okay. The Puskar Center renovations were 18

included in the second amendment? 19

A. It was. 20

Q. And those were also part of the term 21

sheet from December 8th of '06 also, right? 22


Q. And so there was specific discussions as 24

319

to other items that don't directly relate to salary, 1

like the Puskar Center renovations and other people's 2

salaries, coaches', assistant coaches', that were 3

included in the contract at your request? 4


Q. So if there was anything outside the 6

typical employment agreement, you knew that you could 7

request that, and the University then could pass on 8

it, whether it was agreed to or not, and include it; 9

is that right? 10


Q. And the right to renegotiate, that's 12

something you wanted, and that was actually stricken 13

out by the University and Rodriguez at the time of 14

execution of the second amendment, item No. 8 of your 15

letter? 16

MR. ROBON: No. 8. 17

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Is 18

that true? 19




Q. And item No. 9, that was a specific item 23

actually discussed with -- involving the website that 24

320

was not included in the second amendment; is that 1

correct? 2


Q. That's because the University had said, 4

at least so far as the contract, the second amendment, 5

it was not to be included in that agreement? 6

A. No. That letter that you showed me was 7

prior to the first amendment being signed. 8

Q. No, no. I'm not talking about -- this 9

website, item No. 9 -- 10

A. Uh-huh. 11

Q. -- your attachment, you wrote the 12

language that you requested, and the university did 13

not agree to put that in the second amendment, did 14

they? 15


Q. Yeah. The website request that you make 17

for specific inclusion that you were requesting in 18

this agreement -- 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. -- was not put into the agreement, was 21

it? 22

A. No, it was not. But it was promised on 23

December 8, 2006, in, I believe, one of the 24

321

conversations that Rich Rodriguez was having with 1

Farmer and the Board of Governors. And also -- what's 2

the date on this letter? 3

Q. That's February 28th of '07 that you're 4

requesting it. 5

A. Yeah, by that time, Rich and I had had 6

conversations. And Rich had told me that he had 7

had -- Steve Farmer had again told him in February of 8

'07 that there would be a new president, it would be 9

Mike Garrison, and that when Garrison got in office, 10

Rich was going to get some of those things that had 11

been previously discussed, including the website. 12

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Let's 13

get 15. 14


Q. In fact, Mr. Dorer told you a few weeks 16

later specifically that he was not going to include 17

the website -- this website request that you folks had 18

on page 3 of Exhibit 5; is that true? He was not 19

going to include it in any employment contract with 20

Rodriguez? 21

A. On what page now? 22

Q. It's on page 3. 23

A. Uh-huh.24

322

Q. The third -- I guess those are 1

paragraphs. It says item 9, Website? 2


Q. And also Mr. Dorer indicated that the 4

term sheet provision as to the assistant coaches' 5

salary pool and the Puskar Center, he would include 6

specifically what was in the term sheet and was not 7

going to modify, as you had requested in your letter 8

of February of '07, February 28th of '07, Exhibit 9

No. 14. 10

A. Uh-huh. 11



Q. In the actual draft that was provided to 14

you, April 24, 2007, by Mr. Dorer, attached to that is 15

a proposed second amendment to the employment 16

agreement for Rodriguez; is that correct? 17


Q. In that proposal, as early as April 24, 19

2007, this 4 million dollars liquidated damage clause 20

was being written, in writing, as a proposed contract? 21


Q. Did you write to Tom Dorer, since you 23

were the single negotiating person on behalf of 24

323

Rodriguez, and advise him to take that out or that it 1

was illegal or void -- 2



Q. -- Mr. Brown? 5

A. Not at that point in time. 6

Q. Well, you were talking about later on the 7

Puskar Center renovations, salary pool, 5 dollar high 8

school football tickets, things like that. 9

At any time did you, prior to the 10

execution of the second amendment contract, second 11

amendment, August 24, 2007, request that that 12

provision on liquidated damages, the 4 million 13

dollars, be deleted? 14

A. Yes, I did request that. 15

Q. Do you have a writing that says that? 16

A. Not in -- yes. I have to go back and 17

look at when Mike Garrison and Craig Walker came back 18

in to -- and started doing the negotiations in -- in 19

July and August, that I did forward -- I'd have to go 20

back and check -- I did forward some graphs and that 21

to Craig that had the -- that changed the buyout -- 22

that I think addressed the buyout amounts and also the 23

years and things like that.24

324

Q. And none of those were agreed to, were 1

they, in the second amendment in the actual document? 2

A. There was -- the 4 million dollars was 3

taken out of the -- there was 4 million dollars in 4

year 1, and then the amount brought down in year 2 and 5

3 from the time the term sheet was signed until the 6

contract was signed in August. 7

Q. So they -- so the University actually 8

made concessions changing the 4 million for a period 9

of time, and then decreased and stepped it down over a 10

period of time at your request? 11

A. At Coach Rodriguez's request and my 12

request. 13

Q. So we know that provision was actually 14

bargained back and forth by the two parties, West 15

Virginia, and then you and Rodriguez on other side; is 16

that right? 17

A. It was. It was, and then there were some 18

extenuating circumstances. 19

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: 17. 20




Q. Let me show you Exhibit 17. And these 24

325

documents we're talking about, Mr. Brown, generally 1

relate to negotiations of this second amendment -- 2

A. Uh-huh. 3

Q. -- back and forth, the tugging and 4

pulling between two parties to a contract, basically; 5

is that right? 6

A. Say it again. 7

Q. Yeah. These letters that we've -- the 8

last several letters that we're talking about are the 9

negotiations back and forth between the parties as to 10

the second amendment to the contract, basically? 11


You can answer. 13



Q. Mr. Dorer, in his letter of May 17th, 16

2007, indicates in the third paragraph that there were 17

issues that you had been raising that the University 18

was not willing to include in any type of an 19

employment agreement; is that correct? 20


Q. And did you stop negotiations on May 22

17th, 2007, since the university said there are 23

several things that you're talking about that they 24

326

aren't willing to include in any type of an employment 1

agreement? 2

A. I stopped negotiations after 3

conversations with Rich Rodriguez when he told me that 4

he had been told by the Board of Governors and some 5

other people that Mike Garrison and Craig Walker would 6

be coming in to take over and just to go ahead and 7

suspend talking. They told Rich to have me stop 8

talking with Tom Dorer and the University, and that we 9

would just wait until Craig Walker and Mike Garrison 10

came into office. 11

So based on a conversation with 12

Rich Rodriguez after this letter where he told me that 13

he had been told by the members -- some members of the 14

Board of Governors and some people just to hold off 15

and have no further conversation with Tom Dorer until 16

Mike Garrison and Craig Walker took over. 17

Q. So are you telling me that you ceased 18

representing Rodriguez after May 17th of 2007? 19

A. No. What I did was I -- 20

Q. My question -- 21

A. -- I ceased having any -- any further 22

discussions in regards to the second amendment with 23

Tom Dorer and anybody at West Virginia at that time.24

327

Q. Were you still representing Rodriguez? 1

A. I was. 2

Q. And at that time, still the contract was 3

binding up until 2013 that existed at that point; is 4

that correct? 5


Q. Up to that point of May 17th of 2007, had 7

you advised anybody that West Virginia had in any way 8

breached any provisions of the term sheet agreement 9

that had been entered on December 8th of '06? 10

A. No. 11

Q. Had they fulfilled all those promises in 12

the agreement, the University, at that time? 13

A. Repeat the question again. 14

Q. Had the University fulfilled all those 15

provision of the term sheet agreement as of May 17th, 16

'07, to the best of your knowledge? 17


You can answer. 19


Q. To the best of your knowledge? 21

A. To the best of my knowledge. 22


for identification.)24

328


Q. Let me show you Exhibit 20. This is an 2

e-mail from you to Craig Walker, who was chief of 3

staff at West Virginia; is that what you understand? 4

A. He was in the process of becoming chief 5

of staff. He had not officially assumed that position 6

yet. But he had started to take some active roles, I 7

believe. And I do know in this situation. 8

Q. This is actually a contract proposal that 9

you put together, is it not? 10


Q. And in the negotiations with the 12

University, on page -- at the bottom right, there is a 13

page stamped 0290, you actually attempted to include a 14

website provision in the contract, did you not? 15

A. I did. 16

Q. And the University had stricken that, not 17

included that; is that correct? 18

A. What's your term "stricken" or "not 19

included that"? 20

Q. They did not include it in the final 21

amendment, the website provision? 22

A. It was discussed and it was one of the 23

promises that were made in regard --24

329

Q. Just answer the question, Mr. Brown. You 1

don't have to make speeches. 2

Was it included in the second amendment 3

or not? 4

A. No, it was not. 5

Q. So there was this negotiation between two 6

parties, one asking for it and the other saying no, 7

right? 8

A. At that point in time? 9

Q. At least according to the written 10

agreements. 11

A. Yes. 12

Q. And you had actually asked for it in 13

writing, and the University did not include it in what 14

they agreed to and presented as the second amendment; 15

is that true? 16

A. That's true. 17

Q. And as part of your provision, you also 18

included as to the liquidated damage clauses that if 19

there was a breach by the University, a material and 20

substantial breach, in your own provision that you 21

drafted, that Rodriguez had to give notice to the 22

University so they would have a 30-day period to fix 23

the problem or the breach?24

330


Q. You also included in that, on the last 2

page, a provision that's called Entire Agreement, and 3

it then says, colon, semicolon, Amendment. You 4

also -- 5

A. On what page? 6

Q. Yes, it's the last page. It's your 7

number Roman numeral XI. You, yourself, included a 8

provision in your draft contract that says that there 9

are no oral agreements or verbal understandings 10

between the parties, and that if it's to be part of 11

the agreement, it has to be in writing and signed by 12

both parties? 13

A. At that point in time on 7-16-2007, yes. 14

Q. Is that true? 15

A. Yes. 16

Q. So you knew the significance and 17

importance of making sure things are in writing and 18

signed by the parties? 19

A. Yes. 20

MR. ROBON: I'm going to make -- 21

MR. FITZSIMMONS: You also -- 22

MR. ROBON: Whoa, whoa, wait a 23

minute. I'm going to make an objection. 24

331

The CW0293 page just has Entire 1

Agreement: Amendment. 2


is correct. 4

MR. ROBON: It doesn't say what 5

you said it says. 6

MR. FITZSIMMONS: That is what 7

the title is if you read the agreement, 8

Mr. Robon. 9

MR. ROBON: And I'm just looking 10

at -- 11


is the title of the agreement in the 13

provision. 14

MR. ROBON: The title of the 15

provision, right. But there's no other 16

language in it. 17

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Is what it's 18

there for. 19

MR. ROBON: Okay. 20


Q. And then you also have a provision for 22

Roman numeral XIV to be included, rather than typing 23

it out again, Legal Counsel, which means that all the 24

332

parties have had full legal counsel -- in fact, 1

probably some of the best representation of advisors, 2

agents, CPAs, internationally-renowned financial 3

advisors, tax attorneys -- that are entering into the 4

agreement? 5

A. At this point in time, this was just a -- 6

Q. Is that true? 7

A. What's the question? 8

Q. That you put that provision and ask that 9

it be included in the agreement? 10

A. I just referred to it in this document 11

here. 12

Q. For inclusion into your proposal? 13

A. Yes. 14

Q. And that's as late as July 16th, 2007, 15

right? 16


Q. And those things mean something when 18

people make promises in writing and contracts and sign 19

off; isn't that significant in your business? 20

A. When they make them in writing or 21

verbally, yes. 22

Q. Did somebody else ask a question? 23

A. No. I'm answering the question.24

333

Q. We're talking about a contract, and the 1

contract says there are no verbal understandings or 2

agreements; is that right? 3

A. At the -- yes. 4

Q. You understand that. All right. 5




Q. No. 22. This looks like you have another 9

opportunity in 22 to decide again that you have this 10

revision. This is something that you're doing your 11

third revised agreement in the negotiations; is that 12

right? This is attached to version 3, your e-mail on 13

the front page. 14

A. Uh-huh. Okay. Hold on a second. 15


A. Yeah. Hold on. 17

Q. Is that what it says? 18

A. Yes, it does. 19

Q. And in this agreement, revision, this 20

proposal that you're submitting to the University, on 21

page 336, you try to -- you request that the website 22

provision be added? 23


334

Q. All right. And on page 339, just so 1

there's no misunderstanding as to the objection that 2

Rodriguez's counsel had made earlier, you've now added 3

on to provision Number Roman numeral XI where it has 4

Entire Agreement: Amendment, you actually specifically 5

say insert -- "Insert same clause as original 6

agreement." 7


Q. That's your directive, right? 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. And that's -- 11


yes or no. 13



Q. And that's a provision that says there 16

are no verbal or oral understandings or agreements, 17

and everything must be in writing to be effective as a 18

contractual provision and signed by both parties. 19

A. On that day, 7-17-2007, yes. 20

Q. Is it your understanding that the reason 21

for those types of provisions are so people don't come 22

back and try to change and create records, the 23

agreement, so that -- to stop people from coming in 24

335

and saying that there was some type of verbal promise 1

or agreement? Is that the purpose of that, pretty 2

much? 3

A. Yes. 4

Q. And also so there is no misunderstanding, 5

also, as to Exhibit 22, you again, then, in provision 6

Roman numeral XIV specifically requested that the 7

legal counsel provision be added that both parties 8

have had full and fair opportunity to employ counsel 9

of their choosing, lawyers, and that they are making 10

this agreement which they each believe is fair. 11

You requested that provision be added 12

also in your third version? 13


Q. All three versions, up to this point, 15

you've requested both of those provisions; is that 16

right? 17


Q. All right. Is that -- strike that. 19




Q. 24. According to this Exhibit No. 24 23

Brown, this is a draft that Mr. Walker had sent you on 24

336

July 27, 2007; is that correct? 1


Q. And it was a draft of the second 3

amendment in getting -- working up towards this August 4

24th, '07, second amendment. These are the 5

negotiations and the drafts being exchanged by you and 6

the University back and forth? 7

A. That's correct. On this date, no one 8

knew what was going to happen the next day or predict 9

the future, but on this day, this was when there was a 10

draft exchanged again. 11

Q. I'm sorry. Is somebody -- you aren't 12

hearing somebody else ask questions, are you? 13

A. No. 14

Q. Okay. 15

A. I'm just trying to clarify -- 16

Q. Could you stick to my questions -- 17

A. I will. 18

Q. I didn't hear anybody else ask a 19

question. All right. July 27th, Mr. Walker sends you 20

a draft? 21

A. Uh-huh. 22

Q. And the University agrees to lessen, to 23

some extent, the liquidated damage clause in 24

337

time-wise, as to when it would apply, the 4 million 1

dollars. There was actually negotiations that the 2

University conceded and gave in some benefit or 3

lessening of that liquidated damage clause. 4

A. They changed the term and condition in 5

this amendment draft that they proposed, yes. 6

Q. And that was being requested that there 7

be some changes as to the liquidated damage, and they 8

actually made a change of a year or less period when 9

he would be -- have that 4 million dollar liquidated 10

damages, did they not? 11

A. Yes. This was a result, I believe, of 12

conversations with myself and Alex and Craig Walker in 13

Craig Walker's office. 14

Q. Good, fair negotiations back and forth 15

between you and Mr. Walker, right? You're doing your 16

job; he's doing his job? 17

A. Yeah, he's doing his job, and as part of 18

those negotiations, he made a statement to me that, 19

Mike, we cannot change the 4 million dollar buyout 20

even in the first year, because the Board of Governors 21

and that would not accept it, there was too much 22

publicity already released about it, and it would show 23

a sign of weakness on the part of the Board of 24

338

Governors and the administration. 1

During those negotiations, I had constant 2

conversations with Craig Walker, showed him industry 3

data and that. But his statement coming back was that 4

they -- there was no way the Board of Governors would 5

be able to accept a figure of no less than 4 million 6

dollars because of the publicity and that surrounding 7

it. 8

Q. Are you done with your speech? 9

A. Sure. 10

Q. So what happens, you and Mr. Walker are 11

together, you're asking to try to change the 12

liquidated damage clause, Mr. Walker agrees to change 13

the time period by a year, concedes that, and then 14

forwards to you the product of your two discussions at 15

that time for your consideration; is that correct? 16

A. In regards to this amendment? 17

Q. In regards to this document, Brown 18

Exhibit No. 24. 19

A. Yeah. This document -- 20


A. -- this document was a result of 22

conversations with myself and Craig walker and Alex 23

Macia --24

339

Q. All right. 1

A. -- in Craig Walker's office. 2

Q. That was a benefit to Rodriguez, was it 3

not? 4


Q. That was a benefit -- potentially 6

beneficial provision to Rodriguez by lessening it by a 7

year? 8

A. It was more fair. It was going -- 9

Q. It was a benefit to him. 10

A. It was going toward being more fair. I 11

can't -- I can't determine whether it was a benefit. 12

It was starting to be along the lines of being more 13

fair within industry standards. 14

Q. Industry standards are not the 15

determining measuring stick for liquidated damages, 16

are they? 17


You can answer. 19


Q. Do you have something that says that 21

that's how it is to be done? 22

A. In -- in the industry, as I mentioned 23

earlier --24

340

Q. I didn't ask you that question. Was 1

there some standard -- written standard that says 2

that's how you determine these things? I thought it 3

was supposed to be an assessment of damages. Or do 4

you even know, Mr. Brown? 5

A. Say -- what's the question again? 6

Q. Do you even know how liquidated damages 7

are arrived at? 8

A. Yeah, I know. 9

MR. ROBON: Wait a minute. 10

Objection. You've asked four questions. 11

He hasn't had a chance to answer the 12

first one yet. 13


Q. Do you know how? 15

A. Yes, I do. 16

Q. Okay. Industry standards are not a 17

measuring tool for those. You know that. 18

A. No, no. Hold it. In regards -- you 19

asked the question in regards to -- 20

Q. No, just answer that, please. 21

A. You asked the question in regards to 22

industry standards, okay. 23

Q. No, no. I said, Industry standards are 24

341

not the measuring stick of liquidated damages. You 1

know that? 2

A. Uh-huh, I know that. 3

Q. Okay. All right. Now, in this provision 4

that's sent to you, you know, once again, you have to 5

give written notice if there is a breach by West 6

Virginia, right? 7


Q. You never did that, right? 9

A. Never did that. 10

Q. Never sent any written notice at any 11

time -- 12


Q. -- for breach, and neither did Rodriguez, 14

right? 15

A. No, I did -- no, he did not. 16

Q. And we have about three or four 17

agreements now passing back and forth that you, in 18

your meticulous evaluation of these things, have seen 19

have notice provision, right? 20


Q. Still never did, right? 22

A. No. 23

Q. That's a true statement?24

342

A. That's a true statement. 1

Q. And once again, then, we get in -- here's 2

another provision provided to you, the legal counsel 3

provision is once again set forth, as is the -- the 4

legal counsel provision that each party has entered 5

into this agreement freely and voluntarily and with 6

the full intent to be bound thereby. 7

Would you look at that language on 8

Exhibit 24? 9

A. Exhibit 24, what page is that again. 10

Q. It's -- the Bates stamp on the right is 11

353. 12

A. Yes, it's in there. 13

Q. All right. And you understand that 14

Mr. Rodriguez signed that provision intending to be 15

fully -- enters into the agreement freely and 16

voluntarily with the full intent to be bound thereby. 17

Both parties did, didn't they -- 18

MR. ROBON: Objection. That 19

document was never signed. 20


provision? 22

MR. ROBON: This document, no, 23

this document. 24

343


suggest you read the contract, Mr. Robon. 2

MR. ROBON: This document was 3

never signed, Exhibit 24. 4


Q. I'm asking about the provision. That 6

provision was part of the contract, was it not? 7


Q. All right. So both parties acknowledge 9

with their own signature -- 10

MR. ROBON: I move to strike -- 11

wait a minute. Move to strike, because 12

that calls for a legal conclusion of what 13

was in the contract by reference. 14


Q. So are you saying that Rodriguez did not 16

intend to be fully bound, but signed off, telling 17

people he did in that second amendment? 18



Q. Is that what you're saying? 21

A. All I know -- all I know is that 22

Rich Rodriguez signed the contract. 23

Q. And he signed a provision saying he fully 24

344

intended to be bound by that written contract only? 1



Q. Is that right, Mr. Brown? 4

A. He signed a contract that had that clause 5

in it. 6

Q. Well, do you have your customers sign 7

contracts and lie about what their intent is, or do 8

you expect them to honor that? 9

A. I know Rich Rodriguez to be an honest and 10

truthful man. 11




Q. 25. Let me show you Exhibit 25. By the 15

way, do you go by any nicknames? 16

A. Yeah. I have lots of nicknames. 17

MR. ROBON: Let's go back for a 18

moment. I want to make a comment on the 19

record that counsel asked questions about 20

the integration clause in the second 21

amendment, which is Exhibit -- 22

MR. FITZSIMMONS: You can ask 23

questions later on, sir. 24

345

MR. ROBON: No. It just doesn't 1

have an integration clause; it has an 2

adoption clause, and the question was 3

whether the adoption cause allows 4

integration. 5

MR. FITZSIMMONS: No, no. 6

There's no question. He said, please 7

insert the thing. There's no question 8

about the original -- 9

MR. ROBON: I'm saying what 10

the -- what the document is. 11


Q. All right. Go ahead, Mr. Brown. You're 13

looking at Exhibit 25? 14

A. Uh-huh. 15

Q. Yes? 16

A. Yes. 17

Q. And when you received that contract, that 18

agreement, second amendment agreement -- second 19

amendment getting ready for this August 24th, '07, 20

second amendment and the negotiations, you actually 21

not only looked at it meticulously yourself on 22

multiple occasions, but you sent it off to your 23

customer, Mr. Rodriguez?24

346

A. At this point in time, there had not been 1

a meeting set yet for August the 24th. 2

Q. I understand. But this provision, as 3

we're working towards that, these revisions back and 4

forth, the tugging and pulling between the two 5

entities, you sent it off and reviewed it with your 6

customer, hopefully? 7

A. Yeah, I sent it to Coach. 8

Q. Okay. Actually, it indicates, I think, 9

Mr. Walker, at the bottom, he sent it off to 10

Rich Rodriguez. I suspect you probably did also, or 11

made sure that he got a copy, right? 12

A. Yeah, at that time, Craig was e-mailing 13

me copies and brought me copies by Coach Rodriguez's 14

office. 15

Q. All right. Without question, you were 16

trying to keep Rodriguez up to speed on what the 17

negotiations were back and forth at this point in time 18

from a general standpoint; is that fair to say? 19

A. Yes. 20

Q. Whether you were giving Rodriguez the 21

revisions, or Walker, you were making sure somebody 22

was getting it to him so he would fully participate 23

also in these negotiations, right?24

347





Q. Exhibit 26. Could you tell me some of 5

the -- and I don't want to know when you were a kid, 6

when you were 5 years old what your mom or whoever 7

called you. 8

But generally, do you go by any 9

particular nicknames? 10

A. A lot of guys, like in the profession -- 11

the NFL stuff and in the coaching ranks, my nickname 12

is "Brownie." 13

Q. Brownie. Waterboy? 14

A. No, huh-uh. 15

Q. You never heard that nickname. 16

A. Yeah, I've heard that nickname. 17

Q. On occasion they call you that on -- 18

A. I had one friend who called me that. 19

Q. Okay. Because somebody said, Is that 20

Waterboy? I don't know. Okay. 21

A. I grew up -- my dad owned an ice cream 22

store when I was growing up, so I got the nickname 23

"Ice Cream." 24

348

Q. Ice Cream. 1

A. And so during my days at -- in -- I got 2

recruited to go to Clemson for sports, and my nickname 3

followed me there, followed me all the way to guys who 4

play in the league now. 5

Q. Did you play college sports? 6

A. I played high school sports, and then 7

went to Clemson and then suffered an injury, and 8

then -- 9

Q. I thought you said you were recruited at 10

Clemson. 11

A. I was. 12

Q. What were you recruited for? 13


You can answer. 15

THE WITNESS: Pardon me? 16


Q. What were you recruited for? 18

A. As a student athlete for the football 19

program. 20

Q. Football at Clemson? 21

A. Yeah. 22

Q. What year would that have been? 23

A. 1970 -- I graduated in the spring of '75.24

349

Q. From college? 1

A. No, from -- 2

Q. High school? 3

A. From high school, yeah. 4

Q. So you would have been recruited in the 5

'75 season at Clemson, one of their recruits? 6

A. I was -- yeah, uh-huh. 7

Q. You were offered a scholarship? 8

A. Yes, I received a grant-in-aid to 9

Clemson. 10

Q. Were you offered an athletic scholarship? 11

A. Yeah, it was athletic grant-in-aid. 12

Q. For football? 13

A. Football, and then also was involved in 14

the baseball program. 15

Q. Were you on the football team, then, for 16

four years? 17

A. No, I wasn't. 18

Q. Did you ever play? 19

A. I suffered a knee injury, and then became 20

a student coach and trainer. 21

Q. Did you suffer your knee injury in high 22

school or when you went to Clemson? 23

A. Actually, it was way before then. I had 24

350

had knee problems in high school. 1

Q. Okay. So -- I mean, they awarded you a 2

football scholarship. 3

A. It was a grant-in-aid, yeah. 4

Q. Well, grant-in-aid -- 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. Grant-in-aid's a little different than a 7

football scholarship? 8

A. Yeah, uh-huh. 9

Q. You understand that? 10

A. I understand that. 11

Q. Okay. You got the grant-in-aid, you had 12

been, you're saying, recruited but you ended up 13

getting a grant-in-aid, which is different than an 14

athletic scholarship. 15

A. It was an athletic scholarship, through 16

the athletic department. I got scholarship, tuition, 17

books, everything. 18

Q. Okay. To play football, as opposed to 19

being a trainer or whatever? 20

A. Uh-huh. 21


A. Uh-huh. 23


351

yes or no. 1


Q. Yes? 3

A. Yes. 4

Q. Okay. And you have been referred to by 5

at least one person or a few friends in the past as 6

Waterboy? 7

A. Yeah. 8

MR. ROBON: Objection. Move to 9

strike. 10


Q. And you were a manager on the football 12

team at Clemson, then, for four years? 13

A. Became a student trainer. 14

Q. Student trainer. 15

A. Uh-huh. 16

Q. I don't know if you ever answered my 17

question. Did you ever suit up? 18

A. No. 19

Q. Who was the head coach at that time? 20

A. At Clemson? 21

Q. Yes, when you recruited -- when you were 22

being recruited. 23

A. Actually, I remember a coach named Ed 24

352

Emory. 1

Q. He was the head coach? 2

A. No, he wasn't the head coach. 3

Q. Who was the head coach when you were 4

being recruited? 5

A. I believe a guy named Red Parker. 6

Q. Do you know if Coach Parker is still 7

alive? 8

A. I have no idea. 9

MR. FITZSIMMONS: 26. How are 10

we doing with time there? 11

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: About six 12

minutes. 13

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Oh, 14

you've got 26 there. 15

MR. ROBON: I think another half 16

an hour, your pilot is going to charge 17

you double time. Your seven hours on the 18

ground is up. 19


Q. You have Exhibit 26 there? 21

A. Yes, I do. 22

Q. Okay. And this is another proposal, the 23

same -- the contract that ultimately ends up as the 24

353

second amendment, not that these provisions did, but 1

working towards the second amendment of August 24 of 2

'07; is that right, Mr. Brown? 3


Q. And this also includes in this the notice 5

provision, as of August 1st. It's on page 377. 6

A. Uh-huh. 7

Q. That you have to give notice for a breach 8

to West Virginia and they get 30 days to fix it or 9

cure the problem? 10

A. Yes. 11


A. Yes. That is correct. 13

Q. Okay. And you also have a liquidated 14

damage clause of 4 million dollars in the event 15

Coach Rodriguez would leave the University? 16

A. Yes, it was in there, in the amendment 17

that Craig Walker sent to me. 18

Q. And that provision lessening the time 19

period when that would apply was in this particular 20

draft; is that correct? 21


Q. And also in here, there is the counsel 23

statement, that everybody has counsel. It's on page 24

354

383. 1

A. That statement's in there. 2

Q. And the provision about incorporating the 3

original agreement, which provided that there cannot 4

be any oral or verbal agreements or promises was 5

incorporated also, the last provision? 6

A. Yes. On 8-1-2007, yes. 7

Q. Yes. So here's another opportunity 8

you've been through, has the 4 million dollars 9

liquidated damage clause, and also has these other 10

provisions about oral and verbal promises not being 11

binding on the parties? 12


Q. Did you write any letters and ask that 14

those provisions, the counsel provision, the provision 15

about no other promises, oral or verbal, other than 16

what's in the written contract applies between the 17

parties, did you ever write -- 18


Q. -- anything asking that that be taken 20

out? 21


Q. And the provision about whoever signs 23

this contract intends to be -- with full intent to be 24

355

bound thereby, did you ever ask that that be taken 1

out? 2

A. No, I did not. 3




Q. Let me show you Exhibit 28 -- or 27. I'm 7

sorry. 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. This is an e-mail from you to Mr. Walker, 10

August 6, 2007. See, we're kind of getting closer up 11

to that 8-27-2007 date. 12

Do you see that? 13


Q. This is an e-mail you wrote. And could 15

you read into the record what you told the chief of 16

staff, Mr. Walker, who was handling some of these 17

revisions and forwarding those to you at that time, 18

right before your name? 19

A. Just that sentence or everything above 20

it? 21

Q. Just that sentence where it says, The 22

main thing -- 23

A. "The main thing with Rich is he wants to 24

356

get it right this time and if it takes time to do so 1

that is OK." 2

Q. All right. So at least at that time, you 3

expressed the intent that Rodriguez wanted this 4

contract to be the contract and get it right at that 5

point? 6




Q. And on the third page of that document 10

No. 27 -- 11

A. Uh-huh. 12

Q. -- you also advised Mr. Walker that 13

you're going to be in town, Morgantown, for a 14

three-day period. I assume you were going to be 15

talking to Rodriguez about this -- 16

A. What's that again now? 17

Q. Yes. On the third page, it's in the 18

third paragraph, it says you're going to be in 19

Morgantown between the 16th and 19th of August 2007? 20

A. What page is that? 21

Q. It's the third page. 22

A. 04 -- 0410? 23

Q. Yes, uh-huh. 24

357

A. Uh-huh. 1

Q. You were going to be in Morgantown, I 2

assume, to talk with Coach Rodriguez about this second 3

amendment and the provisions? 4

A. Yes, I was. 5

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Okay. We have 6

to change tape. 7






MR. ROBON: That was my 13

paralegal. I have an exhibit list of a 14

hundred-and-some exhibits for this trial 15

I have on Monday. 16




Q. Okay. This is Exhibit 29, Mr. Brown, I'm 20

showing you. This actually verifies that you actually 21

stayed with the Rodriguezes for that three-day -- two- 22

or three-day period, August 16th of 2007. 23

A. Uh-huh.24

358

Q. Is that right? 1


Q. And I assume that since you're talking 3

about the draft of the amendment, you had multiple 4

discussions with the Rodriguezes concerning the second 5

amendment? 6

A. While I was staying there? 7

Q. Yes, sir. 8

A. I can't recall if we had any discussions 9

at that time. 10

Q. All right. So you had this major second 11

amendment agreement which provides an agreement for 12

your customer, for a period of seven years it's going 13

to tie up his employment life, and for the two or 14

three days you stay with him on the weekend of August 15

16th, '07, you can't even recall if you even talked 16

about contracts -- the amendment; is that true? 17



connotation. 20

MR. FITZSIMMONS: What, his 21

answer? 22

MR. ROBON: No, the connotation 23

of your question. 24

359


Q. Now, these provisions, including the 2

liquidated damage clause, have been circulated back 3

and forth -- including the liquidated damage clause, 4

and we talked about where it was -- the time periods 5

where the 4 million would be applied and when it would 6

be stepped down from the 4 million. Those had been 7

exchanged and discussed by you and with 8

Coach Rodriguez; is that correct? 9


Q. All right. And as of the first time you 11

spoke with Mike Garrison or Craig Walker about the 12

second amendment was at the August 24th, '07, signing; 13

is that right? 14


Q. Had you spoken to President Garrison 16

prior to the meeting of August 24, '07, when the 17

second amendment was actually signed? 18

A. Yes, I had. 19

Q. You had indicated some, I think, 20

fraudulent statements were made, is that what you 21

characterize them, by the University at some point? 22

A. I don't recall. In what areas? 23

Q. As to the -- this second amendment. 24

360

A. Okay. Say it again now. 1

Q. Yeah. Was there some point where you 2

allege West Virginia committed a fraud or made 3

fraudulent statements, you told me about, that you 4

discovered that December 16th of '07, after the 5

Michigan term sheet had been signed? 6


Q. Yes. Is there some point -- 8

A. Because you're going from July, August 9

to -- 10

Q. That was -- you had testified earlier 11

that West Virginia, in your opinion, had -- you had 12

discovered they -- you felt they had committed a fraud 13

on August 16th, '07 -- or December 16th, '07. 14

A. On December 16th of -- 15

Q. My question to you is -- 16

A. On that Sunday morning -- 17

MR. ROBON: Hold on. Let him 18

finish the question. 19


Q. Are you alleging that in August that 21

somebody from the University made fraudulent 22

statements to you or to Rodriguez concerning the 23

employment contract?24

361

A. As of today, yes, I allege that on August 1

24th, Mike Garrison made fraudulent statements. 2

Q. On August 24th? 3

A. Yes. 4

Q. Right? 5


Q. Okay. So you're saying that the 7

Rodriguezes were not on board to sign this second 8

amendment, then, until August 24th, '07; is that true? 9

A. That is correct. 10

Q. And you had talked generally to Rich, but 11

Rita is pretty active in this whole thing, too, is she 12

not? 13


Q. And they communicate back and forth and 15

convey messages as to what one says to the other, and 16

then they convey that to you as their agent; is that 17

right? 18


Q. All right. So I assume, as you 20

understood it, still as of the time you were there at 21

the signing on August 24th, prior to that, the 22

Rodriguezes really weren't on board to sign yet at 23

that point, there was still a question. 24

362

A. They had not -- Rich had not made up his 1

mind to sign the contract. 2

Q. But Rita had, hadn't she? 3

A. No, she had not. 4

Q. She was on board before August 24th, 5

wasn't she? 6

A. No, she was not. 7

Q. You've positive of that? 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. Yes? 10

A. Yes. 11

Q. Because they were both involved actively 12

in the contract, in the decision as to whether he 13

would sign this second amendment; is that right? 14





Q. Okay. Let me show you an e-mail, Exhibit 19

No. 30. I'm interested right in the middle -- these 20

are several e-mails that are printed out on this page. 21

A. Uh-huh. 22

Q. You're -- Mr. Walker's -- Mr. Wilcox -- 23

A. Uh-huh.24

363

Q. -- e-mail. Do you see that? 1

A. I -- I see the e-mail, yeah. 2

Q. Mike Wilcox, he's one of the team members 3

on the Rodriguez side? 4

A. That's correct, uh-huh. 5

Q. Right in the middle of the page on August 6

21st, 2007, at 3:38 p.m., Wilcox wrote an e-mail. Do 7

you see that? 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. Right here (indicating) -- 10

A. Uh-huh. 11

Q. -- Mr. Brown? 12

A. Uh-huh. 13

Q. Would you read that to the jury and the 14

into the camera there as to what that says? 15

A. It says, "Craig - we're set from our end 16

on the deferred language and please confirm that you 17

concur. I had an excellent discussion with Rita this 18

a.m. and she concurs with my recommendation to execute 19

on Friday." 20

Q. "Talk soon. MRW." That's one of the 21

team members? 22


Q. Okay. So Rita, at least according to 24

364

this, she wants to execute that second amendment as of 1

August 21st, 2007; is that correct? 2


MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: At 4

least according to this. 5

MR. ROBON: Objection. This is 6

a document not from him. He doesn't 7

understand intent. He can't -- he can't 8

possibly comment on that. 9


Q. Well, were you team members all fighting 11

back then and disagreeing, or was Wilcox, this 12

international expert in financing, and Rita, the wife, 13

that talk all the time -- were there differences, 14

fighting going on among the team? 15

A. No, there was no fighting going on among 16

the team. 17

Q. All right. So this certainly looks -- 18

assuming it's true, assuming Mr. Wilcox is making a 19

truthful statement to our chief of staff at West 20

Virginia University, we have Rita on board to sign and 21

execute this second amendment as of August 21st, and 22

Wilcox recommending also that the second amendment be 23

signed as of August 21st, at least according to this. 24

365

That's what it says, right? 1

A. That's Mike Wilcox's statement. I can't 2

say what -- what the background was and why he said 3

that. 4

Q. Well, let me ask you about Wilcox. Is he 5

somebody that doesn't tell the truth a whole lot? 6

A. He tells the truth, very truthful. 7

Q. Okay. If you go down a little bit, 8

August 21st, earlier that morning, at 10:39, the 9

attorney who's on the team, Speyer, Bennett Speyer -- 10

A. Bennett Speyer, yeah. 11

Q. S-p-e-y-e-r? 12

A. Uh-huh. 13

Q. He indicates as of August 21st, 2007, 14

that the final version is what Craig has at that time, 15

at least based on what he knows; is that right? 16

A. That's correct. In regards -- 17

Q. I'm sorry. 18

A. In regards to what I considered from 19

Bennett, it would be in regards to the deferred 20

language. 21

Q. He says he resolved the language and he 22

"expects that Craig has what we anticipate to be the 23

final version," period. Is that what it says?24

366

A. That's what it says. 1

Q. It doesn't make any exceptions to the 2

final version; it just says "final version," at least 3

according to that e-mail? 4

A. It says "final version." 5




Q. Now, 31. This is an e-mail, Exhibit 31. 9

On August 23, the day before the second amendment was 10

signed by your customer, Rodriguez, Wilcox is making 11

arrangements to travel down to Morgantown, West 12

Virginia, making plans to be there Friday; that's for 13

purposes of, what, the signing of the contract? 14

A. The purpose of the meeting was to get 15

Mike Garrison and Craig Walker in a room so Rich could 16

discuss all of the issues that he had with the program 17

and the contract; and based on those discussions, Rich 18

at that time would make a decision whether he was 19

going to sign the contract or not. 20

But he was not going to sign this 21

contract until he sat down with Craig walker and Mike 22

Garrison and addressed a number of issues. 23

Q. And a final version of the contract was 24

367

to be presented; is that right? 1


Q. Do you have any information that 3

indicates that Wilcox advised anybody at the 4

University that Rodriguez would not sign the contract 5

unless he met with someone? Has that ever been 6

conveyed to you? 7


Q. Has anybody ever told you that Wilcox 9

insisted that Rodriguez has to meet with somebody from 10

the University before he would sign the final version? 11

A. That Wilcox insisted, no. I do know that 12

Rich Rodriguez told me he would not sign the final 13

contract until he sat down and had a talk with 14

Mike Garrison -- with Mike Garrison and Craig Walker. 15




Q. This is Exhibit 32. 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. And it's Wilcox -- team member Wilcox 21

to -- our chief of staff of West Virginia. 22

A. Uh-huh. 23

Q. Do you see that?24

368

A. Yeah. 1

Q. And he congratulated -- Wilcox 2

congratulated our chief of staff on getting the 3

contract completed and executed; is that correct? 4


Q. He says everybody stuck with it, they got 6

into the end zone as of at least August 24th, 2007, at 7

2:08 in the afternoon; is that correct? 8

A. Hold on a second. 9

Q. Is that what the e-mail says, sir? 10

A. Yeah. 11

Q. Then it says in the last paragraph, it 12

says, "I'll fill you in next week on my meeting last 13

night with Rich and Mike Brown." That's you, right? 14


Q. "A very interesting session." 16

A. Uh-huh. 17

Q. Was that an interesting session on the 18

23rd? 19

A. I can't recall the exact details of what 20

we talked about in that meeting on the 23rd. 21

Q. So as you sit here today, you have no 22

recollection -- 23

A. No, we did meet. 24

369

Q. -- of that very interesting session? 1

A. I can't recollect everything that we 2

discussed at that meeting. Mike Wilcox got in late, 3

Rich got in late, and we didn't meet up back at the 4

house, at Rich's house, until 10:30, 11:00, and we 5

stayed there for about an hour. 6

Q. Before the execution of the contract, you 7

had been through that contract with Coach Rodriguez 8

inside and out pretty much, hadn't you? 9

A. I had been -- yes, I had reviewed that 10

contract with Coach Rodriguez quite a number of times. 11

Q. Being a good agent, I'm sure you would 12

have told him that the one clause provided that there 13

was an incorporation of any other terms in the 14

December '02 agreement unless they were specifically 15

changed in -- 16


Q. I'm sure you would have advised your 18

customer that under the terms of this second 19

amendment, that the original contract provisions would 20

all apply and be incorporated unless they were 21

specifically changed in either the first or the second 22

amendment. 23

A. I don't recall -- 24

370


answer. 2

THE WITNESS: I don't recall 3

having a specific conversation in regards 4

to that while we were discussing the 5

contract. 6


Q. So you're dealing with 8

multimillion-dollar contracts, and you would not have 9

advised your customer that that provision would 10

survive concerning -- that everything had to be in 11

writing and there were no oral or verbal agreements; 12

is that true, you didn't tell them? 13

A. I can't recall all of the detailed 14

discussions on every paragraph that we had. 15

Q. Did you and Mr. Wilcox have some 16

problems? 17

A. Mike and I worked very well together. 18




Q. Exhibit 33, Mr. Brown, is that an e-mail, 22

looking at the second one down, from you to President 23

Garrison and Mr. Walker at our University?24

371

A. Uh-huh. 1

Q. Is that a yes? 2

A. Yes, it is. 3

Q. All right. And you thanked both of those 4

gentlemen for their time today on August 24th, for all 5

their efforts over the past two months in negotiating 6

and getting this contract put together for Rodriguez; 7

is that correct? 8

A. Yes, I did. 9

Q. For completing the deal, right? 10

A. I did. 11

Q. And you sent that thank-you note, didn't 12

you? 13

A. Yeah, I did. And when I sent it, there 14

were a couple of things that I wanted to make sure 15

were there based on the meetings and discussions of 16

the 24th, and that is their promise of a culture 17

change that they were going to implement. 18

And then also the reason I put 19

"face-to-face Commitment from one mountaineer to 20

another future contract items will take care of 21

themselves naturally," was I wanted to reinforce the 22

fact that Mike Garrison stood up and shook 23

Rich Rodriguez's hand and told him that he would take 24

372

care of all those verbal promises that he made, and 1

the contract -- 2

Q. Sir, did somebody ask you a question -- 3

MR. ROBON: Let him finish, 4

please. 5

THE WITNESS: -- and the 6

contract would be revisited again in 7

December and January. Those were the 8

facts behind that e-mail. 9


Q. You can't do it in January because your 11

customer took off in December, didn't he? How could 12

you have revisited it in January? 13

A. I said December and January. Go back, 14

read the summary of the e-mail that Mike Wilcox made 15

summarizing the events of August 24th, I believe 16

December was listed in there. 17

Q. Mr. Brown, you couldn't do it in January 18

because your client, your customer, bolted in early 19

December. 20

A. What's your question? 21

Q. You can't have any type of revisiting the 22

contract when Rodriguez took off and left mid -- I 23

think December 16th, didn't he?24

373

A. Yeah. They had a meeting on the December 1

the 15th that addressed these issues, and 2

Mike Garrison and Craig Walker said, no, they weren't 3

going to honor the verbal promises, so they did end up 4

having that meeting in December. 5

Q. The same verbal promises that you had 6

half a dozen to a dozen contracts that said that those 7

don't apply and can't be an agreement that you 8

reviewed in the second amendment? 9

A. Pardon me? 10

Q. The verbal agreements, the provision in 11

the second amendment that says that no verbal 12

agreements would be binding on either party unless 13

they were reduced to writing and signed by the 14

parties? 15



Q. Isn't that what you're talking about? 18

MR. ROBON: That's not what the 19

second amendment says. 20




Q. Yes, sir. Are we talking about verbal 24

374

agreements that you watched your client sign a second 1

amendment that incorporated a provision that said no 2

verbal agreements would be binding unless in writing 3

and signed by the parties? 4

A. I'm talking about the verbal agreements 5

that Mike Garrison made to Rich Rodriguez that I feel 6

Rich Rodriguez made the decision to go ahead and sign 7

the second amendment. 8




Q. Let me show you, Mr. Brown, Exhibit 35. 12

A. Uh-huh. 13

Q. This is an e-mail from Mike Wilcox. 14

A. Uh-huh. 15

Q. You see that? 16

A. I see it. 17

Q. On the second page -- 18

A. Yes. 19

Q. -- about the middle of the page -- 20

A. Uh-huh. 21

Q. -- there is a paragraph that says, "The 22

issue of 'fairness'," do you see that? Right here, 23

Mr. Brown. 24

375

A. Yes. 1

Q. Okay. Now, all that this, which is 2

Wilcox, one of the team members from Rodriguez, all he 3

said that was discussed was that the issue of fairness 4

would be discussed originally in January, and Garrison 5

said he would actually talk about it in December, just 6

talk about it. 7

A. Uh-huh. 8

Q. Is that right? 9


Q. No promises or agreements, other than 11

just talking about fairness of the contract? 12

A. No. In -- 13

Q. Is that what that says, that paragraph? 14

A. No, it does not. 15

Q. It does not? 16

A. No. 17

Q. Why don't you read it into the record, 18

and we'll let the jury decide that, then. 19

A. Okay. "The issue of 'fairness' came up 20

and Rich asked if Mike and Craig felt the contract was 21

fair and [sic] it was not fair, in six to ten months 22

would they make it fair." 23

Q. "If it was not fair." 24

376

A. Mike -- 1

Q. Whoa, whoa. I want you to go back and 2

read that, because you misread it. 3

A. You want me to read it again? 4

Q. I want you to read it correctly. 5

A. Okay. "The issue of 'fairness' came up 6

and Rich asked if Mike and Craig felt the contract was 7

fair and if it was not fair, in six to ten months 8

would they make it fair." 9

Q. Go ahead. Keep reading. 10

A. "Mike Garrison responded that he feels 11

it's 'fair for the time' but that this is an 12

evolutionary process and Mike wants to work with Rich, 13

Mike Brown, and myself to improve it. 14

"I suggested a complete review in January 15

Mike [sic] and he said he would be willing to discuss 16

it in December." 17

Q. People were going to talk; there was no 18

promises of anything other than to talk, right? 19

A. No. If you were at the meeting in 20

regards -- 21

Q. What does this say, Mr. Brown? I'm 22

asking you as to the e-mail. 23

A. It says -- it says "a complete review." 24

377

Q. To review what, the contract? 1

A. To review the contract and the status of 2

the verbal promises made to Rich Rodriguez. 3

Q. Did you see the word "verbal promises" 4

made to Rich Rodriguez in those two paragraphs you 5

just read? 6

A. I saw -- 7

Q. Did you? 8

A. I did not. 9

Q. You did not, all right. 10


Q. So all they agreed to was, hey, we're 12

going to sit down, we're grown-ups here and we'll look 13

at things then, and we'll talk about it; is that 14

right? 15

A. No. No, as I said earlier today -- 16

Q. This provision, Mr. Brown. 17

A. I said -- no, when you're talking about 18

review, and you're talking about this sentence here -- 19

Q. Yes. 20

A. -- "I suggested a complete review in 21

January Mike" -- "in January, and Mike said he'd be 22

willing to discuss it in December." 23

Q. Sure. 24

378

A. If you go back to what I earlier said 1

today -- 2

Q. Sure. 3

A. -- that in that meeting, I asked 4

Mike Garrison in regards to the verbal promises and 5

the culture change, How are you going to measure 6

change and that in the athletic department. 7

And he said is it going -- I said, Is it 8

going to take a year and a half, is it going to take 9

two, what are going to be your metrics. 10

And he said, No, if they don't start 11

acting the way that we want them to, I'll make a 12

change with the athletic director in December or 13

January. 14

And so then that's when, in regards to 15

that, it had to do with the verbal promises and things 16

that were being made, and that's when Mike Wilcox 17

said, Okay, so you'll be willing to sit down and 18

review everything in December and January; and Mike 19

Garrison agreed to it. 20

So if you were at the meeting, you would 21

understand a complete review not only included the 22

contract, but also the verbal promises that they made 23

that day to Coach Rodriguez and also the culture 24

379

change that they promised in the athletic department. 1

Q. Mr. Brown, as you have already admitted, 2

"verbal promises" is not mentioned once in those two 3

paragraphs, that people would sit down and talk in 4

January or December about fairness issues and a review 5

of this contract, not once in those two paragraphs, is 6

there? 7

A. Nope. 8

Q. Did you get a copy of this, this e-mail? 9

A. I sure did. 10



MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: I'm 13

going to show you Exhibit 55. 14

Do you have any stickers? 15

MR. WAKEFIELD: We do. 16



Q. Is this a copy of a business card of 19

yours, Michael Brown, Director of Marketing? 20

Touchstone, that's one of the companies I thought you 21

told me you worked at. 22


Q. Okay. And do you -- this would be your 24

380

address in Triadelphia, West Virginia, for that 1

business? 2


Q. Did you have an office there? 4

A. I maintained an office there and also an 5

office in my home in Atlanta when I worked for them. 6

Q. Okay. This is an e-mail there, mlb -- 7

A. @trl.com. 8

Q. @trl.com. 9


Q. Was that your e-mail address? 11

A. At that -- for -- 12

Q. For that business? 13

A. Yeah, Touchstone. 14

Q. That's your personal e-mail address 15

there? 16

A. Yeah. Those are my initials, Michael L. 17

Brown. 18

Q. And a website here also -- 19

A. That was the company website. 20

Q. That was the company's website? 21


Q. Okay. All right. 23

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Do you have 24

381

any stickers? 1

MR. WAKEFIELD: Yeah. 2




Q. Let me show you Exhibit 56. 6

A. Uh-huh. 7

Q. Is that an e-mail from you, Mr. Brown? 8

A. Yes, it is. 9

Q. It says Subject: vegas vic show. 10

A. Yeah, uh-huh. 11

Q. It says, "Waterboy's free pick." Is that 12

you? 13

A. Yeah. Well, in other words, what I did 14

was record for a guy -- 15

Q. Is "Waterboy" referring to you in this 16

e-mail, sir? 17

A. Yeah. Yeah, there was a character made 18

up by Waterboy, yeah, uh-huh. 19

Q. This is November 15th of 2001? 20

A. Yeah. 21

Q. Okay. It says, "To get the Waterboy's 22

free pick." 23

A. Uh-huh.24

382

Q. What are we talking about, "picks"? 1

Sports betting? 2

MR. ROBON: Objection. This is 3

in 2001. It's irrelevant and immaterial, 4

has nothing to do with this case. 5

You can answer. 6

THE WITNESS: Yeah, yeah. In 7

other words, I did radio show stuff in 8

Cleveland, Ohio, I was a common -- I was 9

an NFL insider on WKNR and never got 10

compensation for it. 11

And then because of my southern 12

accent and that, I would go on and do 13

voice-overs for this -- for the radio 14

station. 15


Q. Let's talk about -- this is, "For his top 17

three college and pro picks each week," call a certain 18

number, and, what, you would give them tips on sports 19

betting for college and pro games? 20

A. No, all I did -- 21

MR. ROBON: Objection. It 22

doesn't say "sports betting." 23


383

Q. Well, I'm asking you. Is that what 1

that's talking about, "For the top three college and 2

pro picks"? 3

MR. FITZSIMMONS: I don't know 4

too much more that's not sports betting, 5

Mr. Robon, but maybe you're right. 6



Q. Look at the next one. 9


Q. Did you actually have problems with 11

Touchstone's because of running a sports-betting 12

operation with college and -- 13

A. I never ran a sports-betting operation. 14

I just did voice-overs and that in regards to -- and 15

that. 16

Q. It says these numbers; it says, "You get 17

the top three college and pro picks for $99 per 18

weekend." 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. Some fee was being charged for this 21

service? 22

A. I guess, yeah, the guy was charging a 23

fee.24

384

Q. And you were part of that -- 1

A. No, huh-uh, I wasn't employed, no. 2

Q. It says, "Last week the Waterboy was a 3

perfect 3 and 0 for both his college and pro picks." 4

A. Say it again. 5

Q. It says, "Last week the Waterboy" -- I 6

guess that's you, right? 7

A. Yeah. 8

Q. That's your nickname, you told us that 9

already. 10

A. Yeah, at that time, yeah. 11

Q. -- "was a perfect 3 and 0 for both his 12

college and pro picks." 13

A. I don't recall. I mean, I would be given 14

a script and read it. 15

Q. Well, this is actually an e-mail that you 16

sent -- 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. -- about yourself picking college and pro 19

sports, right? 20

A. No, I was just show -- I was going 21

over -- 22

Q. Who was it from? 23

A. It was from me.24

385

Q. And who is it to? 1

A. A friend of mine. 2

Q. In Vegas? 3

A. No, huh-uh. She lived in Atlanta, I 4

think, at the time. 5

It says here, right there, I will get you 6

on a three-way when I record today. 7

And so basically I recorded voice-overs 8

for her. 9

Q. You were picking -- according to this, 10

you were telling people you're picking -- you're the 11

Waterboy, you're picking college and pro picks, and 12

there is a phone number to dial in, and people pay 99 13

bucks to get tips on games at that time. 14

A. I did not make picks; I did not -- all I 15

did was just do voice-overs. 16

Q. It says, "100 percent just like he 17

handles all his phillies." 18

A. Uh-huh. 19

Q. What's that mean? 20

A. It's -- it's the script that was typed up 21

that I read for. 22

Q. It was a script that you typed up and 23

provided to her, didn't you?24

386

A. It was a script that -- 1

MR. ROBON: Show a continuous 2

objection on this line of questioning, 3

and move to strike, irrelevant, 4

immaterial. 5



Q. She was reading on the -- on the air? 8

A. Yeah. 9

Q. Did you actually -- 10

MR. ROBON: What was struck out 11

on this exhibit that I can't read on top? 12


didn't strike anything out, sir. 14

MR. ROBON: I know. What's 15

written on there? 16

THE WITNESS: "Sports betting." 17


Q. Sports betting? 19

A. Yeah. 20

Q. So you weren't involved in sports betting 21

with that e-mail; is that what your testimony is, sir? 22

A. I was not involved in sports betting. I 23

read voice-overs and that for the radio. I never made 24

387

any -- 1

Q. What's The Chicken Shack? 2

A. That's probably part of the script we 3

made up when we were reading the scripts and that. 4

Q. Did you provide a script to people to 5

read on the air so people could pay money to get 6

sports-betting tips, I guess? 7


You can answer. 9



Q. Did you write a script, help write a 12

script so that there would be some sports betting and 13

you would give tips that -- 14

A. I wouldn't give tips. 15

Q. You didn't give any -- the Waterboy 16

doesn't give tips; that's a false thing that the 17

Waterboy is picking games? Is that a false statement? 18

A. I would -- I would -- 19


You can answer. 21

THE WITNESS: To the best of my 22

recollection, I was given scripts to read 23

and to play along with them, or whatever, 24

388

but I never actually made the picks or 1

whatever -- 2


Q. So you were reading false statements to 4

the public over the FCC airwaves, then, as to Waterboy 5

picking 6 and 3 and 3 and 0 in pros; that's a false 6

statement you were representing? 7


Q. You were having scripts read that the 9

Waterboy was 6 and 3 in college games and 3 and 0 in 10

pro games, you were making false representations on 11

the airwaves, FCC airwaves, then; is that right? 12



knowledge of that. I mean, I can't 15

answer that. That's back in 2001, and I 16

was doing this guy a favor, never got 17

paid for it, in writing scripts and doing 18

voice-overs for him. 19




Q. Let me show you 57. Is that a script 23

that was read, then, on the airwaves?24

389

A. Uh-huh. 1

Q. Is that a yes? 2

A. Yes, it is. 3

Q. And it says, "Waterboy's the proprietor 4

of that business." 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. You see it? You see where it says the 7

word "proprietor"? 8


Q. Is that -- as the sports agent that you 10

are, that means that you own the business? 11

A. This was a -- I don't own this -- I never 12

have, never owned -- 13

Q. I didn't ask you -- 14

A. Never received any compensation for any 15

sports betting. This was a script that I came up with 16

and reviewed and talked to the guy Vic about, and then 17

I would read it for him. 18

Q. Okay. So you came up with the actual 19

script and read this on FCC airwaves; is that right? 20

A. Uh-huh. 21

MR. WAKEFIELD: Is that a yes or 22

no? 23


390


Q. Okay. You indicate your normal business 2

hours are 9 to 5 seven days a week. 3

A. Uh-huh. Not mine, it's a company that I 4

was -- 5

Q. It says, "Our normal business hours." 6

A. I was recording a script to be played for 7

Vic. 8

Q. And you say you were recording -- you 9

say, "Our normal business hours are 9 to 5 7 days a 10

week." Is that what that says? 11

A. Yep. 12

Q. Who came up with Chicken Shack as the 13

name? Is that something that you came up with? 14

A. No. I think Vic came up with that. 15

Q. And it was 99 dollars a week or for, I 16

guess -- is that a good price -- 999 dollars for the 17

season, you can get your 100 percent proof top three 18

college and top three pro picks plus some bonuses 19

during the year. 20

Is that a script that you helped right? 21

A. No. He would -- on some of this stuff, I 22

would come up with some of the fun stuff, and then he 23

would provide the information in regards to the phone 24

391

numbers, the prices, and the business and that. 1

And then I would come up, and we would 2

review it and say, Okay, is this what you want me to 3

read; and I'd say, Okay, I'll read it. 4

Q. When did you tell me you had your NFL 5

Players' Association license? 6

A. In, let me see here. That would have 7

been '99, and that would have been in 2000. 8

Q. You had it one year? 9

A. I mean, that's when I first got it was in 10

2000. 11

Q. And you had that license in 2001? 12

A. Yes. 13

Q. Did you report to the NFL Players 14

Association that you were reading things like this and 15

writing picks for pro sports? 16

A. I wasn't writing picks. I was reading a 17

script. 18

Q. Well, you told us that you put it 19

together in part, you said earlier. 20

A. Yeah. I would put together the fun part; 21

they would -- he would supply me the information in 22

regards to how he wanted that. Also at the same 23

time --24

392

Q. So it's your testimony -- 1

A. Also -- 2

MR. ROBON: Let him finish, 3

please. 4

THE WITNESS: Also at the same 5

time, I was on the air at KNR and other 6

stuff, and they asked me to do -- every 7

now and then to do voice-overs for them 8

also there. 9


Q. So as I understand, you have a pro 11

license as an agent at this time back in 2001; is that 12

right? 13


Q. All right. You're holding yourself out 15

as an agent for coaches at that time; is that right? 16

A. No. No, I had not started representing 17

coaches. 18

Q. You hadn't started yet, then? 19

A. No, huh-uh. 20

Q. And you were helping to write these 21

statements and e-mails relating to sports betting; is 22

that true? 23

A. Say it again.24

393

Q. You were helping to write at least a 1

message to be read on the air about sports betting; is 2

that true? 3

A. I was helping a guy write a script for 4

his business and do voice-overs. 5

Q. And you wrote a personal e-mail to an 6

individual calling yourself the Waterboy and saying 7

that you have picks and that for money you can get 8

your picks, the Waterboy's picks, for 99 dollars a 9

week or 999 dollars a season. 10

A. Uh-huh. 11

Q. That's a personal e-mail that you sent 12

from your business up at Touchstone's? 13

A. Touchstone. 14

Q. Right? 15

A. Uh-huh. 16

Q. While you're working for Touchstone's? 17

A. Uh-huh. What's the question again? 18

Q. And that has to do with sports betting; 19

is that right? 20


Q. Does the e-mail have to do with sports 22

betting? 23

A. It does.24

394

Q. And -- 1


strike. 3


Q. Do you know -- Mr. Robon pointed out 5

something that had been blurred out of the e-mail that 6

we obtained. 7

A. Uh-huh. 8

Q. Is the "sports betting," do you know 9

whose writing that was that was blurred out? 10


Q. You've seen this e-mail before, haven't 12

you? 13

A. Yeah. 14

Q. You wrote it? 15

A. Yeah. 16

Q. Nobody else wrote it? 17

A. No. 18

Q. All right. Did you say yes? 19

A. That no one else wrote it? 20

Q. Yes. 21

A. Yeah, no one else wrote it. 22

Q. You solely and exclusively wrote 23

Exhibit -- is that -- the e-mail with your hands over 24

395

it is 57? 1

MR. WAKEFIELD: It's 55. 2

THE WITNESS: 55, 56, which are 3

you talking about? 4


Q. 56. It's 56? 6


Q. The e-mail -- 8

A. I did not solely, exclusively write this. 9

Q. The e-mail? 10

A. Oh, as far as the e-mail -- 11

Q. The e-mail, 56? 12

A. Yeah, the e-mail, I wrote that. The 13

content was, again, provided by the company I was 14

doing the voice-over for. 15

Q. Okay. Who is Jennifer? 16


You can answer. 18

THE WITNESS: Jennifer is a 19

friend, is a person who worked for me as 20

an intern when I was a sports agent in 21

1999 and 2000. 22


Q. Jennifer Kromp?24

396

A. Krompass, yes. 1

Q. That's who you wrote the e-mail to also, 2

then? 3

A. That's correct, yeah. 4

Q. And you have her listed in the actual 5

thing that you read on the air, that she's one of the 6

people that will receive the calls for people calling 7

for sports betting services. 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. Do you see that, sir? 10


Q. Same person? 12

A. Uh-huh. 13

Q. Yes? 14

A. Uh-huh. Say it again. 15

Q. Same person? 16

A. Yeah. I -- I asked her if she wanted to 17

do one of the voice-overs for fun, and she said, yes, 18

she would do it. 19

Q. Same person who the e-mail was sent to on 20

Exhibit 56, right? 21

A. Yeah. 22

Q. And that's who you advise on the 23

advertisement will be one of the persons answering the 24

397

phone calls for people purchasing or inquiring into 1

this sports-betting-tip service; is that true? 2

A. That's correct. Jennifer knew Vic and 3

had knew -- had met and knew him, and so Vic came up 4

with the idea of why don't we have Jennifer do one of 5

the voice-overs. 6

Q. Who is Sandy? 7

A. Say it again. 8

Q. Who is Sandy? 9

A. Where does it say that? 10

Q. It's right after Jennifer. She's another 11

girl that answers like sports-betting calls? 12

A. That was one of Jennifer's roommates. 13

Q. Jennifer's roommates? 14

A. Yes. 15

Q. Jennifer Krompass? 16

A. Yeah, uh-huh. 17

Q. Yes? 18

A. Yes. 19

Q. And who is Stacy? 20

A. One of her roommates also. 21

Q. And who is Kelly? 22

A. Jennifer's sister. 23

Q. All right. So where does Jennifer live 24

398

now, do you know? 1

A. She lives in Atlanta. 2

Q. Are you related to Jennifer in any way? 3

A. No. 4

Q. Do you still maintain communication with 5

Jennifer? 6

A. Yes. 7

Q. How regularly? 8

A. Quite regularly. She's like -- 9


THE WITNESS: She's like a 11

sister to me. 12


Q. So the girl that's like a sister to you, 14

you have at least them, all these ladies, young gals, 15

answering the phone according to the advertisement 16

that was read over the FCC airwaves, is that right, in 17

2001? 18

A. They never answered the phone. They 19

just -- it was written up as a -- to read over. They 20

never were employed. They never did anything. 21

Q. Well, this says, "Maybe Jennifer, Sandy, 22

Stacey or Kelly may discretely get back to you to 23

handle your order." 24

399

A. Uh-huh. 1

Q. So were they handling sports betting 2

orders on tips? 3

A. Nope. All they were doing was just 4

reading the voice-over to be aired on the air without 5

any charge to somebody they knew in that business. 6

Q. And you got in trouble -- did you get in 7

trouble with Touchstone's because of all this? 8

A. Nope. 9

Q. Have you ever seen their report from 10

Touchstone's? 11

A. I've never seen it. 12

Q. You understand that a complaint was filed 13

with Touchstone's that you were running a 14

sports-betting business out of Touchstone's and 15

diverting federal assets in West Virginia? 16


Q. You do understand that? 18

A. Yeah. 19


strike. 21


Q. When did you learn that? 23

A. Pardon me? 24

400

Q. When did you learn that? 1


strike. 3

THE WITNESS: When I was 4

employed at Touchstone's, there was a 5

disgruntled employee that left that made 6

numerous accusations against Touchstone 7

Research, myself, and other people. 8

That person used to work for me, 9

and at the time that he left he made 10

allegations against myself, the owner of 11

the company, Brian Joseph, the -- and 12

also the other owner, Libby Kraftician, 13

and William Casto. 14

There were a slew of charges 15

that were made, I believe, when that 16

employee left back in -- I believe it was 17

in 2002 -- yeah, probably 2002. 18


Q. There was a company that you didn't tell 20

us about that you worked for by the name of Prestige 21

Sports; is that correct? 22

A. Yeah. 23


401


Q. This Jennifer, almost-sister of yours was 2

the director -- listed as public relations director of 3

Prestige Sports, right? 4


Q. And Prestige Sports, Mr. Brown, tell me a 6

little bit about how long you owned that company? 7

A. I did not own that company. 8

Q. Tell me how long you worked for that 9

company. 10

A. Let me see. Going back in -- let me see 11

here. When I became an agent in 2000, I -- 12

Terry Bolar, who was the owner of Prestige Sports, and 13

I worked together for a period of time. There was 14

never a formal written agreement in regards to that. 15

Terry handled recruiting and that of -- 16

Q. Recruiting what? 17

A. Well, players were coming out of college 18

and that, to get their representation and that. I 19

basically handled the contract research, contract 20

preparation, things like that. 21

Q. So at the same time these -- "these," 56 22

and 57, and the sports-betting thing, calling these 23

folks, there was a company called Prestige Sports?24

402


Q. And it would recruit players coming out 2

of colleges in order to represent them as a sports 3

agent? 4



Q. Generally? 7

A. We represented veterans in the NFL, 8

people that were already in the league; and then we 9

were, always -- we were, you know, gaining new clients 10

either through recruiting kids out of college and/or 11

veterans coming over to us. 12

Q. And that was -- complaint was fully 13

completed as to their investigation of this matter at 14

Touchstone's February 3 of '02? 15




A. Say it again. 19

Q. February 3 of '02? 20


THE WITNESS: Do you want me to 22

answer that? 23

MR. ROBON: You can answer, but 24

403

let me object first. 1

THE WITNESS: All right. 2


Q. Is that true? 4

A. I'm not aware of when the investigation 5

was completed, but I do know that I had conversations 6

with the owners of the company after the investigation 7

was completed. 8

Q. My question just has to do with the date, 9

Mr. Brown. You can talk all you want with Mr. 10

Robon -- 11

A. Sure. 12

Q. -- on the deposition later on. 13

A. Sure. 14

Q. So the sports betting, Exhibits 56 and 15

57, time-wise is November of '01? 16

MR. ROBON: Object to the 17

characterization of "sports betting." 18

THE WITNESS: Say it again 19

now. 20


Q. This says "sports betting" somebody put 22

on. That's what you told us it said, right? 23

A. Yeah.24

404

Q. Okay. Exhibit 56. 1

Then Prestige, that operated also at the 2

same period of time in November of '01 also; is that 3

right? 4


THE WITNESS: What, Prestige, 6

that represented -- 7


Q. Prestige Sports, that it existed and you 9

were actually doing work for it, and Jennifer was the 10

public relations director for it in November of '01 11

also? 12


You can answer. 14


Q. Go ahead. You can answer. 16

A. Yes. 17

Q. So you had -- these two sports-betting 18

documents that we've talked about, 56 and 57, at the 19

same time your other business that you were working 20

for, Prestige, was recruiting college kids and 21

representing veterans -- 22

A. Okay. Say it again, now. 23

Q. -- in the NFL --24

405

A. What's your question again? 1

Q. My question is timing-wise, you had 2

Prestige Sports, which would represent veterans of the 3

NFL, and also, you said, recruiting college kids 4

coming out -- 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. -- for the purpose of sports 7

representation -- 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. -- at the same time, 56 and 57 documents, 10

the e-mail about sports betting and charging for 11

sports betting was going on; is that true? 12


THE WITNESS: What these are -- 14


Q. Is that true time-wise? 16

A. These are voice-overs that I was doing 17

for a radio station, yes. 18

Q. Right. Time-wise is that the same time, 19

November, both existed? 20


MR. ROBON: Object. 22


Q. How long did Prestige Sports exist, just 24

406

so we know? 1


THE WITNESS: I do not know. 3

Well, I take that back. Terry separated 4

from his agency -- 5


Q. Just -- you don't have to talk out loud. 7

Just think and give me a date. 8

A. Time-wise, I believe Prestige Sports 9

started around January of '01. 10

Q. January of '01. And when did you -- when 11

was it discontinued? 12


THE WITNESS: To my knowledge, 14

it's not discontinued. I think Terry 15

Bolar is still a sports agent and 16

represents -- and operates under the 17

company Prestige Sports. 18


Q. How long did you work for Prestige 20

Sports? 21


THE WITNESS: I worked with 23

Terry Bolar --24

407


Q. You helped set it up in '01, didn't you? 2


THE WITNESS: The sports agency? 4

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Yes. 5


THE WITNESS: Yeah. 7


Q. So you were on board as early as January 9

of '01 with Prestige Sports. 10


THE WITNESS: That is correct. 12


Q. When did you leave Prestige Sports? 14


THE WITNESS: Let me figure this 16

out. Let me see. '01, '02 -- it was in 17

the late 2002 and 2003 time frame. 18


Q. And how were you paid by Prestige Sports? 20


THE WITNESS: How was I paid? 22

At that time -- I can't recall in regards 23

to that. 24

408


Q. You can't recall how you were paid by 2

that company; is that your testimony under oath here? 3

A. No, what I take -- what -- 4


THE WITNESS: What I am saying 6

is I don't believe I ever -- I'd have to 7

go back and look at my records, but there 8

may be -- I don't even know if I ever got 9

paid by Prestige Sports. 10


Q. You don't know if you got paid by it? 12

A. I would have to go back and look. But 13

because we were a start-up company, and you get paid 14

off of commissions by, you know, when your client gets 15

paid and that, and since it was a start-up company, I 16

can't remember whether we had actually had any 17

revenues coming in yet by the time I left there. 18

Q. Did you tell the NFL Players' Association 19

that licenses agents in 2001 that you were 20

participating in these e-mails and announcements on 21

the radio station about tips for college and pro sport 22

games? 23


409

THE WITNESS: No, I did not 1

notify the NFLPA that I was doing 2

voice-overs on the radio station. 3


Q. Did you give up your pro license for 5

representing players in early 2002 -- 2002? 6

A. No, I did not. 7

Q. When did you give it up? 8

A. I gave it up around the October time 9

frame of 2006. 10

Q. And at any time prior to 2006, had you 11

ever advised the NFL Players' Association about these 12

e-mails, the e-mail to Jennifer, Exhibit 56, and the 13

typewritten message to be read on Exhibit 57? 14


Q. Have you ever told Coach Rodriguez about 16

those items? 17

MR. ROBON: About what items? 18


Q. 56 and 57. 20


Q. Have you ever told Mr. Metz about those 22

issues involving 56 and 57, did you ever discuss those 23

with Mr. Metz, so we can ask him?24

410


THE WITNESS: No, that was 2

before the time that I -- 3


Q. Your answer was no? 5

A. No, I did not discuss that. 6

Q. Did you ever tell anybody at LMM, this 7

sports agency, about these two exhibits, 56 and 57, 8

being out there? 9



But they -- they did know even after I 12

started working for them that I was 13

regularly on WKRN, the radio station. 14


Q. I didn't ask that question. I'm 16

interested in those two exhibits -- 17

A. No. 18

Q. -- Mr. Brown. 19

A. No. 20

Q. Have you ever told any of your clients 21

that you represent, so far as coaches -- 22

A. Uh-huh. 23

Q. -- about Exhibits 56 and 57?24

411

A. No. 1


strike. 3


Q. You are aware that a rather lengthy 5

investigation took place at Touchstone's concerning 6

this. Do you understand that? 7


THE WITNESS: There was a 9

lengthy investigation into a lot of 10

allegations at Touchstone. 11


Q. You understood that, right? 13

A. Yes. 14

Q. Have you ever told Rodriguez or any of 15

your representatives about these -- about the 16

investigation, any of the people that you represent? 17

A. No. 18

MR. FITZSIMMONS: I have two 19

minutes. Is that what you said? 20

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I've got 21

about three. 22

MR. FITZSIMMONS: You can go 23

ahead and change it if you want to. This 24

412

would be a good time. 1







Q. Before asking you any questions about 8

Exhibit 40, Mr. Brown, were you using Touchstone's 9

e-mail service for those Exhibits 56 and 57 that we 10

had talked about -- 11



Q. -- on the e-mail relating to sports 14

betting and the written message? 15



question. 18


Q. Were you using Touchstone's computer 20

systems or your e-mail address at Touchstone for 21

those? 22

A. Yes. 23

Q. Did they authorize you to do that?24

413

A. The -- 1

Q. Did they authorize you to do it, yes or 2

no? 3

A. No, they did not. 4

Q. And you were using also their e-mail 5

address for this business called Prestige Sports? 6

A. Yes. And they were aware I was a sports 7

agent at the time. 8

Q. I didn't ask you that question, did I? 9

A. Yeah. 10

Q. Did they authorize you to run your 11

sports, Prestige Sports business through their e-mail 12

service? 13


THE WITNESS: They never did 15

authorize that. 16


Q. What's the full name of the guy that ran 18

Prestige Sports, that you said still runs it? 19

A. Terry Bolar. 20

Q. Terry Bolar? 21

A. Yeah, B-o-l-a-r. 22

Q. And were you and Mr. Bolar the only two 23

involved in Prestige Sports?24

414


THE WITNESS: During the whole 2

time that I was there? 3


Q. During the period that you were there. 5

A. There were other individuals that were 6

involved, but I can't remember their -- I remember one 7

guy that was involved was a guy named Mike Dortch. 8

Q. Mike Dortch? 9

A. Yes. 10

Q. D-o-r-s-c-h [sic]? 11

A. I have no idea how to spell his last 12

name. 13

Q. Was he an agent of football -- 14

professional football players? 15

A. No, he was -- he was helping -- actually, 16

I think, helping us raise funding to capitalize the 17

business, for example. 18

Q. Okay. Anybody else? 19

A. Jennifer started working there after she 20

graduated from college. 21

Q. Where did she graduate from? 22

A. University of Ohio in Athens. 23

Q. Ohio University?24

415

A. Yes. 1

Q. And then at some point in time, I believe 2

there was a person that was hired to be a marketing 3

person, an African-American lady. I can't remember 4

her name. 5

But there were other -- during the time 6

that Terry and I worked together at various points in 7

time, there were other people that worked at the 8

agency. 9

Q. Where is Mr. Bolar, B-o-l-a-r, today? 10

A. I still believe he's in Marietta, 11

Georgia. 12

Q. That's where the main office was for 13

Prestige Sports? 14

A. Yes. 15

Q. Do you communicate with him regularly? 16

A. We probably see each other, cross paths, 17

maybe once a year in Indianapolis in February at the 18

NFL compound. 19

Q. He's still representing players? 20

A. Yes, he is. To my knowledge. 21

Q. The radio station that you say that you 22

were doing live reads or some type of reads, what's 23

the name of that station, 1430 AM, did you say? 24

416

A. WKNR in -- 1

Q. KNR? 2

A. In Cleveland, Ohio. 3

Q. And what's the number, the call letters? 4

A. I don't know what their number is today. 5

Q. What was it -- 6

A. I can't even remember what it was back 7

then. 8

Q. Is it an AM station? 9

A. Back then it was an AM station. 10

Q. Who owned the station at that time? 11

A. I have no idea who owned it. 12

Q. The sports-betting company, who owned 13

that? You said Dick something -- 14


THE WITNESS: A guy -- a person 16

by the name of -- do you want me to 17

answer it? 18

MR. FITZSIMMONS: You have to 19

answer it. 20

MR. ROBON: You can answer it. 21

Let me make the objection first. 22

THE WITNESS: A guy by the name 23

of Dave Rice, R-i-c-e. 24

417


Q. What was the name of the sports-betting 2

company? 3


Q. No idea? 5

A. I can't remember. 6

Q. Did you come up with the name of the 7

business Chicken Shack? 8


THE WITNESS: As I said earlier, 10

I think Dave, when we were talking about 11

writing -- working on writing scripts and 12

that, I believe he came up with it. 13


Q. Was there an actual business entity 15

called Chicken Shack? 16

A. No. 17

Q. Dave Rice, the owner of the 18

sports-betting thing, participated with you in writing 19

this announcement; is that your -- is that what you're 20

saying? 21


THE WITNESS: We -- he would 23

work -- he would -- he would and I would 24

418

talk, and he would say, Hey, I need you 1

to record this on this date at a certain 2

time, are you available. 3


Q. Where is Dave Rice today? 5

A. I still think he's in Cleveland, Ohio. 6

Q. And do you know what type of business 7

he's in? 8

A. I know he's been employed since that time 9

by The Cleveland -- The Cleveland Plain Dealer; I know 10

he's been employed by one of the TV stations up there, 11

help covering the Cleveland Browns. I think it was 12

actually the station that has the TV network with 13

them. So he's still in Cleveland, and he is -- I 14

think he still is a radio personality and also a TV 15

personality, still, up there. 16

Q. Sports betting, does he still do that? 17

A. I have no idea. I haven't talked to Dave 18

in years. 19

Q. Where was his sports-betting operation? 20


THE WITNESS: Where was his 22

sports-betting operation? I have no idea 23

where his office was. 24

419




Q. Would you look at Exhibit 40, please. 4

A. Okay. 5

Q. Is this an e-mail from you to Mr. Walker 6

at West Virginia University? 7


Q. The fifth paragraph down -- 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. -- it says, a statement made by you, it 11

says -- I'll read it, tell me if I read it correctly. 12

You're talking about having a meeting to go through 13

some things in the contract with the Rodriguezes. 14

And you say, "Why is this important? 15

There is a projected opening at Texas A & M this year 16

and Florida State next year. Rich's name is being 17

mentioned heavily. Please see attachment." 18

A. Uh-huh. 19

Q. Wasn't the contract until 2014 at that 20

time? 21


Q. And there was at that point in time a 23

binding, fully binding contract?24

420


THE WITNESS: Correct. 2


Q. You didn't mention anything about the 4

liquidated damage clause in this e-mail to Mr. Walker; 5

is that correct? 6


Q. You didn't advise Mr. Walker there was 8

any breaches in any contract whatsoever at that time, 9

did you? 10

A. I did not. 11

Q. And you provided them -- why would you 12

tell Mr. Walker about openings at Texas A & M and 13

Florida State? Just conversation that you wanted to 14

have with him? 15


Q. Why would you tell Mr. Walker about 17

openings for a coaching position at Texas A & M and 18

Florida State? 19

A. Well, because I go back up to the 20

previous paragraphs, going back to the meeting this 21

summer with Mike Garrison in Wheeling to evaluate 22

where things stood in December and January as 23

important to the program and the progress in that, 24

421

also of importance are different initiatives, we have 1

discussed increasing athletic department revenues and 2

that. 3

And so I had a statement in there, "Rich 4

and I are very concerned there is no confirmation the 5

RFP for network has not been released yet." 6

And I brought -- so that's my job as an 7

agent to say, Hey, this is a two-way street, just like 8

when they shook the hands back in August, A commitment 9

from one Mountaineer to another. 10

And, you know, this had gotten to a point 11

I believe at this time that, again, Rich and Rita were 12

very frustrated that Mike Garrison had committed fraud 13

on August 24th, if I say -- with the promises he made 14

and they were not being followed up. 15

Another reason I sent this e-mail is I 16

had a conversation with Bob Robinson prior to sending 17

this e-mail in November, and I know Bob is very 18

tight-knit with the West Virginia group. And so Bob 19

and I were having a conversation, and he knew about 20

the promises and stuff and the details of the 21

contract -- 22

Q. Mr. Brown, my question was why you -- why 23

did you mention Florida State and Texas A & M. 24

422

A. I -- I am working to that. 1

Q. How long is it going to take? Can you 2

predict? Will you answer the question, please? 3

A. I can -- 4

MR. ROBON: Let him answer the 5

question, please. 6

THE WITNESS: Okay. I can 7

answer it in 60 to 90 seconds. 8


Q. I just want the answer to my question. 10

A. Okay. 11

Q. You can make all the speeches you want 12

when you walk out the door to yourself and Mr. Robon 13

or anybody else. 14

A. Uh-huh. 15

Q. Just answer the question. 16

MR. ROBON: He's answering the 17

question. 18


Q. Why did you mention Florida State and 20

Texas A & M's openings coming up at that time? Were 21

you threatening West Virginia that this guy was 22

getting ready to bolt? 23

A. No -- 24

423

MR. ROBON: Objection. There's 1

multiple questions. 2

THE WITNESS: No. What I was 3

doing was reminding West Virginia of the 4

commitments that they had made to Coach 5

Rodriguez and verbal promises on August 6

the 24th in getting him to sign the 7

contract. 8


Q. Florida State had nothing to do with the 10

contract, sir. There was nobody in that room or 11

nobody on that contract that I've seen from Florida 12

State. 13

A. So what's your question? 14

Q. Why did you mention that there were 15

openings at Florida State and Texas A & M to the chief 16

of staff on November 14th, 2007? 17

A. Well, I think -- I believe one of the 18

reasons was I wanted to again remind him what a great 19

coach and how popular he was. 20

Q. You were suggesting that there were 21

openings and Rich Rodriguez might be jumping ship to 22

go to two other -- one of the two other colleges; 23

isn't that right?24

424

A. No, I did not. 1

Q. And you actually evaluated -- I'd asked 2

you earlier whether you ever put a market value on 3

Rich Rodriguez. 4

A. Uh-huh. 5

Q. Would you look to the next page of the 6

attachment that you have? I asked you that, one of 7

the first questions of this deposition. 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. What do you price the open market value 10

of Rich Rodriguez, in your opinion, at the time of 11

this November of 14, 2007, e-mail? 12

A. I didn't have any market value. I was 13

just passing on to him stuff, public information that 14

was out on the Internet. 15

Q. What did you -- what did you pass on to 16

Mr. Walker, then, as to open-market value for 17

Rich Rodriguez? 18

A. Pardon me? 19

Q. What did you put on the attachment that 20

you sent to our chief of staff that you wanted to pass 21

on as to the market value of Rich Rodriguez? 22

A. This was a direct cut-and-paste from a 23

website called coacheshotseat.com. I did not generate 24

425

this. This is a cut-and-paste from a website out 1

there, the exact information that was on there. 2

Q. So you cut and pasted and you put it on 3

as to the market value of Rodriguez? 4

A. I didn't add anything to it. 5

Q. I suspect you think Rodriguez is probably 6

would worth even more than 3.25 million, right, 7

open-market value of this coach? 8

A. I have -- I don't determine the market 9

value. 10

Q. But he's your customer, you do. 11

A. I don't determine the market value. 12

Q. I thought you did a survey of market 13

value on salaries, all kind of things. 14

A. Uh-huh. 15

Q. That's what you do, statistics, don't 16

you? 17

A. I don't determine market value. The 18

people that are making the offers and contracts are 19

the ones who determine what they think the market 20

value is. 21

Q. You just try to get the most you can for 22

your customers, right? 23

A. That's my job is when I --24

426

Q. It's your job? 1

A. When I enter negotiations with somebody, 2

yes, at that point in time it is my job to get the 3

most and best deal for him. 4

Q. Now are you going to tell Coach Rodriguez 5

when you leave here today that, when asked whether he 6

had an open-market value of 3.25 million, you were not 7

willing to answer the question as to his market value 8

being more than that? 9



question. 12


Q. Yeah. Sometime, I assume, 14

Coach Rodriguez is going to say, Hey, Mr. Brown, or, 15

Hey, Mike, that lawyer asked you whether I had a 16

market value of 3.25 million, and you wouldn't even 17

tell him I did, had more, something greater than 3.25 18

million. 19

A. I'll tell him I'm not the one who 20

determines market value. 21




427

Q. This is Exhibit 42. Mr. Brown, I'm 1

interested in the second page. This is one of those 2

string e-mails. 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. This is from Wilcox, Mr. Wilcox. 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. He's writing to Mike Garrison, our 7

president. 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. I guess it's the second paragraph there 10

towards the bottom, way down at the bottom; you see 11

that? 12

A. Uh-huh. 13

Q. It says, "I'll be in touch with Craig 14

tomorrow to discuss MB's e-mail." 15

A. Uh-huh. 16

Q. So MB -- on that team, MB is Mike Brown, 17

probably. 18


Q. And then it says, Rich, Rita and I, 20

parenthesis, without MB -- which I guess is you? 21

A. Uh-huh. 22

Q. -- may have to be an impromptu, 23

unparenthesis, to follow up on 8-24 discussions. 24

428

A. Uh-huh. 1

Q. Were you being cut out of the deal at 2

that time basically with Rodriguez? 3

A. No, I wasn't. 4

Q. You didn't feel that Wilcox was cutting 5

you out? 6

A. No, he wasn't. 7

Q. Didn't want you around? 8

A. No. Because on that November 14th 9

e-mail, actually, Rich and Rita both looked at the 10

e-mail prior to me sending it in. Every e-mail, 11

correspondence, and letter that I send in during my 12

whole time representing Coach Rodriguez, he would look 13

at it and review it before I sent it in. 14

Q. Your answer was you didn't feel you were 15

getting cut out; is that right? 16


Q. And then it goes on. It says, "We could 18

get ahead of things and do it with just the five of 19

us." If you count the number, that would leave you 20

out. 21

A. Uh-huh. 22



429

Q. Had you seen that e-mail, 42, before? 1

A. Before when? 2

Q. Before today. 3

A. Yes, I had. 4

Q. You've been through all these e-mails 5

pretty much -- 6

A. Oh, yeah. 7

Q. -- in preparation for your deposition and 8

helping with the case and things, right? 9

A. That, and also I believe they were part 10

of the discovery that was turned over one way or 11

another. 12

Q. So part of the case, in reviewing that -- 13

A. Sure. 14

Q. -- assisting, helping with the case, 15

right? 16

A. Yeah. 17




Q. All right. You have Exhibit 43 there 21

before you. 22

A. Sure, uh-huh. 23

Q. This is Wilcox, the international expert, 24

430

11-24-07, 2007. 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. At the end there it says they want to 3

"arrange a meeting with Rich and Rita without MB" -- 4

that's you? 5

A. Yeah. 6

Q. -- "between 12-3 and Christmas. Let's 7

discuss further at your convenience." 8

A. Uh-huh. 9

Q. Were you aware that they didn't want you 10

there? 11

A. No. I've not seen this e-mail until the 12

discovery. 13

Q. Were you aware they didn't want you there 14

at that meeting? 15

A. Who is "they"? 16

Q. It says Mr. Wilcox, in his e-mail, in 17

this meeting. 18

A. I have no idea or I can't answer to what 19

Mike was implying to when he sent this e-mail. 20

Q. All your -- all your e-mails in reference 21

to Rodriguez, Mr. Rodriguez and Mrs. Rodriguez would 22

review those, always? 23

A. Maybe not Rita -- 24

431

Q. But certainly Rich? 1

A. Certainly Rich. 2

Q. And so the 11-14-07 e-mail that we talked 3

about, Exhibit 42 -- Exhibit 40 -- Exhibit 40 -- 4

A. Uh-huh. 5

Q. -- that would have been reviewed at least 6

by Rich and probably also Rita? 7

A. That one I know was reviewed by both of 8

them. 9

Q. That was reviewed by both of them before 10

it was sent out? 11


Q. You would have had their -- had they not 13

wanted you to send that out -- 14

A. I would not have sent it. 15

Q. All right. For Exhibit 43, do you have 16

that there? 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. Did you ever talk to Wilcox around the 19

end of November as to why he was writing these e-mails 20

which look to be excluding you from the meetings 21

concerning Rich and Rita's -- or Rich's contract? 22

A. What's the question? 23

Q. Did you ever talk to Wilcox as to why he 24

432

was doing that? 1

A. No, I did not. 2




Q. 44. Let me show you Exhibit 44. 6

A. Uh-huh. 7

Q. This is Mr. Walker, again, on November 8

25th, 2007. 9

A. Uh-huh. 10

Q. The -- first one. The second one I'm 11

interested in is an e-mail from Wilcox to Mr. Walker. 12

It says, "Hi, Craig, Wow is right. Just 13

got back and saw Rich, Rita, and Mike in the locker 14

room on Sports Center. Another good statement. 15

Hopefully you-know-who was not there." 16

A. Uh-huh. 17

Q. Do you know -- did you ever ask 18

Mr. Wilcox if he was talking about you not being there 19

and interfering somehow in the contract relationship 20

with West Virginia at that point, Mr. Brown? 21

A. No, huh-uh. 22

Q. Do you have any idea who he was talking 23

about that he's -- "hopefully you-know-who was not 24

433

there"? 1

A. No, I have no idea. 2




Q. 46. Let me show you Exhibit 46, 6

Mr. Brown. 7

A. Uh-huh. 8

Q. This is Mr. Wilcox, was he cut from the 9

team or something in December, when you were calling 10

Arkansas and Michigan? 11

A. I -- I don't know what you mean by cut -- 12

"cut from the team." 13

Q. Well, lack of communication. You had 14

already been negotiating with Michigan at that time on 15

behalf of Coach Rodriguez. This is December 12 of 16

'07. 17

A. Yeah. On 12-12-2007, at that point in 18

time I had placed a phone call to -- 19

Q. My question was did you cut Mr. Wilcox 20

from the team or decide not to communicate with him 21

about what was going on with this Michigan thing? 22

A. No. On this day, on Wednesday 12-12-2007 23

at some time after 7:24 a.m., I called Mike Wilcox and 24

434

informed him that I had started having discussions 1

with Michigan. 2

Q. Before that, is there some reason 3

Mr. Wilcox was not advised that you had been talking 4

to Michigan, actually made a call sometime on, I 5

believe, the 9th of December of 2007? 6

A. No. I made the call on December 11th of 7

2007, and there was no reason that he had not been 8

contacted yet, because the first day was just an 9

introductory call and that, so it hadn't gotten to a 10

point to notify Mike that it had gotten serious on 11


Q. Well, this is Mr. Wilcox. He's planning 13

on coming down to Morgantown and visiting and going 14

through with meeting our chief of staff and Mike and 15

Rita and Rich, just generally chatting with them; 16

everything seems to be very good and very happy, at 17

least according to Mr. Wilcox's e-mail there, doesn't 18

it? 19

A. That would be interpreted different ways. 20

That's what Mike stated on that day at 7:24 a.m. 21

Q. And he wants to actually meet with 22

Mr. Walker and the Rodriguezes and Mr. Garrison at 23

that time?24

435

A. That's what he says. 1

Q. Is it your testimony -- is it your 2

testimony that as of December the 12th at 7 -- or 8:00 3

a.m., there had not been any discussions with Michigan 4

University as to potential terms of an agreement with 5

Rodriguez? 6


Q. As of December 12th at 8:00 a.m., is it 8

your testimony that there had not been any material 9

discussions about the contract between Michigan and 10

Rodriguez? 11

A. When you say "material discussions," 12

what's that mean? 13

Q. You as an agent, when you had written in 14

the letters to West Virginia University on at least 15

four or five occasions the word "material," 16

important -- 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. -- general salary term, things like that, 19

had there been any discussions at all generally at 20

that time? 21

A. No, not at that time. 22

Q. As of 8:00 a.m., December the 12th; is 23

that true?24

436


Q. You have now on your letterhead on some 2

of these things typed in "Coaching Division." Was 3

that printed stationery that LMM had provided to you 4

or is that something you type on your letterhead that 5

you use for them? 6

A. That is based on the discussions with 7

Eric and I that we are formally calling -- that we 8

have a separate division at LMM Sports called the 9

Coaching Division. 10

Q. My question is do you type it on or is 11

that something LMM gives you that now has preprinted 12

"Coaching Division"? 13

A. No, I type that on there. 14

Q. You just put it in on the stationery they 15

already have preprinted, is that what you do? 16

A. Yes, that's correct, yes. It saves the 17

cost of having to get new stationery printed. 18

Q. At the present time, is there any 19

agreement between Rodriguez and Michigan, other than 20

the letter of intent that was signed by both parties? 21

A. Say it again. 22



437

Q. Is there any agreement, written 1

agreement, between Michigan and Rodriguez at this time 2

other than the letter of intent? 3

A. No. 4




Q. Let me show you Exhibit 48. It's a 8

three-letter exhibit. The first one is December 16, 9

2007; the second one is December 18, 2007 -- I take it 10

back. It's actually four -- the third letter is 11

December 18, 2007, with a change in Rich Rodriguez's 12

initial; the last one is a letter of January 10, 2008, 13

all of which are resignation letters by Rich Rodriguez 14

to West Virginia. 15


Q. Had you seen those when they were 17

initially drafted? 18

A. Yes, I had. 19

Q. Did you help actually draft those 20

resignation letters with Coach Rodriguez, or any one 21

of them? 22

A. I helped draft the first one; the second 23

one, I was not there when he did the -- did the 24

438

initial; the third -- 1

Q. Let's see. The first one you helped 2

draft, or did you draft that? 3

A. I drafted it. 4

Q. Okay. That was your draft? 5

A. Yep. The second one was my draft. 6

Q. The first one was your draft; the second 7

one was your draft? 8

A. Yep. 9

Q. How about the third one that has some 10

scratch-out and appears to have Rodriguez's initials? 11

A. That was my draft, and then I believe 12

Rich, with Joyce Bucklew scratched out that. 13

Q. All right. 14

A. That would have been on Tuesday, December 15

the 18th. 16

Q. How about the last one? 17

A. The last one was completely done by 18

Rich Rodriguez himself. 19

Q. You didn't participate in it? 20

A. He discussed, and we talked together, 21

rehashing and remembering different instances and 22

things like that. 23

Q. He had counsel at that time also; 24

439

Mr. Robon was on board, right? 1


Q. Okay. Is the typing that's actually on 3

Exhibit 48, the December 16, 2007, resignation, is 4

that your typing? 5

A. That is my typing. 6

Q. Where did you type it at? 7


Q. Were you in Morgantown, West Virginia, or 9

Toledo, Ohio, or -- 10

A. I was in Morgantown, West Virginia, that 11

day. 12

Q. On the 16th? 13


Q. And you typed this and presented it to 15

Rich to sign? 16


Q. Did you then mail it to Mr. Pastilong or 18

have it delivered somehow? 19

A. What I did was I -- after placing a call 20

to Mr. Pastilong, I informed Eddie that there would be 21

a resignation letter delivered to him during business 22

hours tomorrow, the next day, on Monday -- 23

Q. December 17th? 24

440

A. -- December 17th. I gave the resignation 1

letter to Mike Parrish, a graduate assistant, and 2

requested Mike that the next morning on Monday, 3

December the 17th, that he deliver it to Eddie. 4

I also informed by telephone to 5

Ed Pastilong and Craig Walker that Mike Parrish -- 6

that the resignation letter would be delivered to 7

Eddie at Eddie's office on Monday, December the 17th. 8

Q. The 18th, where did you type that letter? 9

A. The 18th, I can't recall where I typed 10

that letter at. 11

Q. Were you in Morgantown, West Virginia? 12

A. I was in Morgantown, West Virginia. 13

Q. Why was it retyped? 14

A. Because Coach had decided that he was 15

not -- that it was not in the best interest of the 16

program for him to coach the bowl game, so he made a 17

decision to go ahead and -- and to resign and just go 18

ahead and cut off ties and move on to Michigan. 19

Q. The reason for the first document on 20

Exhibit 48, resignation as of January 3, effective 21

noon, would allow him to coach the bowl game? 22


Q. And two days later, then, he wrote and 24

441

resigned so he would not be coaching the bowl game? 1


Q. Do you know why Mr. Rodriguez scratched 3

out your language on the third page of Exhibit 48? 4

A. I believe he had a meeting later in the 5

day with -- on December the 18th, I believe Russ Sharp 6

and/or Joyce came over to the office to do some exit, 7

employee-exit stuff, and I believe that's at the time 8

when Rich initialed through and -- and I'm not for 9

certain, but I believe it was at that time. 10

I was not in the room at the time when 11

Russ Sharp was over there. So I believe it was during 12

that time that was done. 13

Q. The third letter, the January 10th, 2008, 14

letter. 15

A. Uh-huh. 16

Q. Mr. Rodriguez indicates in the first 17

paragraph that he didn't realize that he had to put in 18

writing reasons for alleged material and substantial 19

breaches of the contract, so that there would be that 20

provision. 21

Is that when you found out or you 22

realized also that the notice provision had not been 23

complied with for allegations of material and 24

442

substantial breaches? 1


Q. Is that when you realized also that the 3

notice provision had not been sent, January 10th? 4

A. No. I realized on December the 15th that 5

the notice provision had not been sent. 6

Q. You knew it clear back then? 7

A. Yeah, I knew it back then. 8

Q. Is it your testimony that you had no part 9

in the January 10th, 2008, letter? 10

A. No, it's not my testimony that I have -- 11

I did not write this letter. 12

Q. I didn't ask you that question. My 13

question was did you have a part in any portion of 14

this, editing, reviewing, making suggestions? 15

A. Yes, I did. 16

Q. All right. This is a team effort also? 17

MR. ROBON: Objection if it 18

calls for -- who is the team? 19

THE WITNESS: Yeah. 20

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: We'll 21

get into that line. 22

THE WITNESS: Rich wrote this 23

letter. 24

443


Q. Did you help? 2

A. When you -- define "help." 3

Q. If you don't know the word "help," sir, 4

we can certainly close our books and go home today. 5

Do you know what that word mean? 6

A. I did -- I did not type the letter for 7

Rich. 8

Q. I didn't ask you that. Did you help at 9

all in looking at it, reading it, editing it, making 10

suggestions? 11

A. Yes, I did. 12

Q. All right. And who else helped as part 13

of the team? 14

A. I have -- I have -- I cannot answer who 15

else helped. 16

Q. Who do you know helped? 17



Q. Who else? Who have you been told helped? 20

Did Rita help? 21

A. I haven't been told or known that Rita 22

looked over this. It wouldn't surprise me if she did. 23

Q. Did you hear that it was circulated to 24

444

counsel also? 1


Q. You can't recall from January 10th 3

whether you were told that this letter was also sent 4

to counsel for Mr. Rodriguez for purposes of at least 5

reviewing or editing or making sure it was all right? 6

You can't recall that, is that your testimony under 7

oath? 8

A. Rich was in Michigan at the time -- 9

Q. Would you answer my question. 10

A. What's your question? 11

Q. Is that your testimony, you don't recall 12

whether you were told that this also was circulated to 13

Mr. Rodriguez's counsel, at least for review or 14

editing or -- 15

MR. ROBON: Well, part of it, if 16

he was -- depending on who he was told 17

by, if Rodriguez -- 18

MR. FITZSIMMONS: It doesn't 19

make any difference. 20

MR. ROBON: Well, could be 21

attorney-client privilege possibly. 22

Show an objection. 23


445

Q. You can answer the question. 1

A. Say it again. 2

Q. Yeah. Did you hear that this was also 3

circulated to Rodriguez's -- any of his attorneys for 4

reviewing, editing, suggestions or approval in any 5

way, any of those items? 6

A. I -- I was under the impression that 7

after I gave Rich the -- and Rich came up with the 8

letter and suggestions, I was under the impression 9

that it was going to be probably reviewed by other 10

people, and probably including by Mr. Robon, as 11

counsel. 12

Q. Okay. Who else did you understand 13

besides Mr. Robon, as counsel? 14

A. You already mentioned I -- I have no 15

confirmation, but I would imagine that Rich had Rita 16

look at this. 17

Q. Who else do you understand was going to 18

review it, approval, editing, suggestions, corrections 19

or whatever? 20

A. As far as myself and anybody else on the 21

team, I can't recall if they were going to have a part 22

on it. 23

Q. The -- were you present for the press 24

446

conference in Ann Arbor when Rodriguez was announced 1

as Michigan -- what's the mascot there? 2

A. The wolverine? 3

Q. The badger -- 4

A. The Wolverines. 5

Q. The Wolverines? 6

A. Yeah. 7

MR. ROBON: Badger is Wisconsin. 8

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: The 9

badger, that's not Michigan? 10

MR. ROBON: No. 11

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: All 12

right. 13

MR. ROBON: Badger is 14

Wisconsin. 15

THE WITNESS: Was I there on 16

Tuesday -- on Monday, December the 17th? 17


Q. I didn't ask you -- the press conference. 19

Do you remember the press conference? 20

A. I remember the press conference. 21

Q. Were you there? 22

A. I was. 23

Q. All right. Do you remember asked -- 24

447

Coach Rodriguez was actually asked at that time why he 1

made the decision to go from West Virginia to go up to 2

Michigan. Do you remember that? 3

A. Do I -- I don't remember every word or 4

verbatim of the press conference. 5

Q. Do you remember Rodriguez saying the 6

reason is, Because it's Michigan, that's why. 7

A. Like I said, I don't remember every word 8

that was said in that press conference. 9

Q. Do you recall Rodriguez addressing the 10

press and public at that time and never at any 11

instance ever mentioning that the reason he left West 12

Virginia was because of any fraud or any breaches of 13

any contract? Would you agree with that? 14

A. Yeah, I don't remember him saying that at 15

his press conference. 16

Q. Has he lied to the press and to the 17

public also? 18


to the characterization. He was probably 20

trying to save West Virginia's hide. 21


Pardon me? 23

MR. ROBON: I said, He was 24

448

trying to save West Virginia's hide, or 1

embarrassment. 2

MR. FITZSIMMONS: I don't think 3

so. I think maybe just the opposite. 4

THE WITNESS: I can say this: 5

That Rich Rodriguez does not like to air 6

dirty laundry out in public. 7


Q. So when he was asked as to the reasons 9

and he said, It's because of Michigan and only because 10

it's Michigan, were you present at that time? 11

A. I was present. 12


Exhibit 40, letter of intent. 14

MR. WAKEFIELD: You mean 50, 15

then. 16

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: 50, 17

yes, I'm sorry. I know Mr. Robon doesn't 18

want this out or some other -- I think 19

it's public knowledge anyway but -- 20




Q. That's the letter of intent with 24

449

Michigan? 1


Q. Yeah, just -- we were asking the specific 3

question, is that -- at the press conference, his 4

exact words, Rodriguez's words to the public and press 5

when asked as to why he went to Michigan, he said, 6

"First and foremost, it's Michigan." 7

Do you recall him saying that? 8

A. Like I said, I can't recall everything 9

that was said in the press conference that day. 10

Q. Do you have any reason to doubt the 11

truthfulness of that statement? 12

A. I can't speak for Coach Rodriguez and 13

what he was thinking at the time he made that 14

statement. 15

Q. Certainly in your mind, you believe as an 16

agent that's one of the premier programs, Michigan, 17

you've told me earlier. 18

A. That along with a lot of other coaches 19

and agents. 20

Q. Just answer my question, Mr. Brown. 21

A. Even Don Nehlen -- even Don Nehlen 22

thought it was. 23

Q. I didn't hear Don Nehlen ask you any 24

450

questions here. 1

Do you recall Coach Rodriguez making 2

statements to the press that the reason that he 3

actually went to Michigan was, "First and foremost, 4

because it is Michigan"? Do you recall statements 5

like that being made by him? 6

A. I can't recall any specific statement 7

that he made that day. I can't remember the exact 8

words that he said that day. 9

Q. Let me ask you as a sports agent, 10

having -- or coaching agent, whatever you are, I'm not 11

sure, is that a big land for you, having a head coach 12

at the University of Michigan? 13


THE WITNESS: What do you mean 15

by "big land"? 16


Q. Premier programs, one of the premier 18

programs. You said -- you indicated that USC was a 19

premier program; Michigan is a premier program? 20

A. There's lots of premier programs. 21

Q. I understand. 22

A. So what's your question? 23

Q. Is that good for you, your business, to 24

451

have a coach and land him up at Michigan, at one of 1

your, what you categorize as a premier program? Is 2

that pretty important to your resume? 3


You can answer. 5

THE WITNESS: The only thing 6

that's important to me is how I serve my 7

clients, work with them, whatever the 8

outcome is. That's what's important to 9

me, not -- I have no personal -- I don't 10

work for personal gain out of this. 11


Q. So it's not important to you that your 13

coach, one you represent, is at a premier program; is 14

that correct? 15

A. What's important to me is that 16

Coach Rodriguez -- 17


A. Coach Rodriguez thinks I do a good job 19

for him, that's what's important to me. 20

Q. I'm sure -- I suspect, whatever, he does 21

feel that way. 22

A. Uh-huh. 23

Q. But my question is is that important to 24

452

you? Is that something that you think is a good 1

thing, to have -- put a coach in a premier -- what you 2

consider as a premier program? 3

A. No, I didn't put him there. He earned -- 4

he earned the job, and it's not because of me that 5

Bill Martin was interested in talking with him. 6

Q. Well, it's because you called first, 7

didn't you? 8

A. I did call. 9

Q. So you were the one that put the two 10

parties together; you played a role in it, didn't you? 11

A. I did. 12

Q. You helped negotiate the contract, didn't 13

you? 14

A. I did. 15

Q. Or the term letter -- letter of intent is 16

what it is, right? 17


Q. All right. You sat down with Bill Martin 19

and helped do that, did you not? 20

A. Yes. 21

Q. And Sue Coleman, was she present also? 22

A. I can't recall, because the first time we 23

had any discussion on a term sheet, and anything was 24

453

drawn up that I think I looked at, was on Friday, 1


Q. December the 14th, you had a term sheet 3

in hand from Michigan; is that what you're saying? 4

A. Hold on a second. 5

Q. What are you looking for? 6

A. The same discovery that you requested 7

that I turned over to you in regards to the timing of 8

everything. 9

Q. Is that a term sheet that was produced in 10

the case that you're looking at? 11

A. Uh-huh. 12

Q. The term sheet was actually signed on the 13

14th by Rodriguez and then faxed back to Michigan, was 14

it? 15

A. No, the term sheet was not signed 16

until -- 17

Q. By Rodriguez, it was signed by him the 18

14th? 19

A. No, it was signed by Coach Rodriguez in 20

his office on Sunday, December the 16th. 21

Q. So you're representing that the numbers 22

on the term sheet with just Rodriguez's signature is 23

December 16th, as opposed to the 14th with somebody 24

454

hand-writing over the 16th. 1

A. That's correct -- say it again now. 2

The first time -- the first time he 3

signed the term sheet, and the only time he signed the 4

term sheet, was in his office on Saturday -- on 5

Sunday, December the 16th. 6

Q. Where was -- where were you on December 7

14th? 8

A. December 14th I was in Toledo, Ohio. 9

Q. Who were you with December 14th in 10

Toledo, Ohio? 11

A. During the day I was with Mike Wilcox, 12

Rich Rodriguez, Rita Rodriguez, and Mary Sue Coleman, 13

and -- 14

Q. Billy Martin? 15

A. And Bill Martin, yeah. 16

Q. Anybody else present, Wilcox, Rodriguez, 17

Coleman, and Martin and you? 18

A. That was at the beginning of the -- of 19

the day. 20

Q. Mr. Robon came in then? 21

A. I believe Mr. Robon came in. 22

Q. And Mr. Davis from his office? 23


455

Q. Anybody else? 1

A. I can't remember if Dave Hammack, the 2

accountant, or Bennett Speyer was there. I can't 3

recall. 4

Q. At the time you were in Wilcox's 5

office -- 6

A. In his office complex, yes. 7

Q. And prior to the 14th, then, how many 8

times had you contacted or had communications with 9

Michigan? 10

A. There were numerous times before the 11

14th. 12

Q. More than a half a dozen? 13

A. I would have to sit down and go through 14

this log and count them up, if you want to give me a 15

second. 16

Q. Who would you have been talking to from 17

Michigan, Martin? 18

A. Bill Martin. 19

Q. Anybody else from Michigan that you 20

talked to? 21

A. No, Bill Martin. 22

Q. Would you have used your cell phone for 23

all those calls?24

456


Q. And that began on the 11th, you say? 2


Q. And had you received any e-mails at all 4

or faxes from the 11th up until the meeting in Toledo 5

on the 14th? 6

A. Not that I can recall. There was one 7

phone call that I did place to Bill Martin that was on 8

my home phone and not my cell phone, and that was that 9

Tuesday night on December the 11th at 9:42 p.m. 10

Q. Did -- when was the first time any terms 11

were actually discussed that you felt were at least a 12

proposal, or realistically a proposal? 13

A. On Friday, December the 14th. 14

Q. You didn't tell Mr. Martin on the 11th 15

what it would basically take in order to get 16

Coach Rodriguez to jump from one school to the other? 17


Q. Was there a number that you calculated 19

that you felt was necessary in order for -- 20

financially in order for Rodriguez to move and better 21

himself? 22


Q. Was there an amount generally that you 24

457

felt was kind of a benchmark that you had to reach in 1

order for Rodriguez to at least break even or do 2

better financially? 3


You can answer. 5

THE WITNESS: Prior to what, 6

December 14th? 7


Q. Prior to signing the term sheet. 9

A. Prior to signing this term sheet. 10

Q. Yeah. Had you done some analysis, talked 11

about, We're going to need this amount of money? 12

A. Not until December 14th. 13

Q. On December 14th, did you do that to 14

determine what amount would be necessary in order 15

to -- in your opinion, for Rich to do at least the 16

same financially? 17

A. As best I recall, that's when Bill Martin 18

and I had discussions and numbers were put down. 19

Q. Did you come up with a number that you 20

felt was a benchmark that you had to reach in order 21

for Rich to at least break even? 22

A. No. I never came up with a number on 23

a -- on a benchmark.24

458

Q. Well, some type of guiding star that, you 1

know, we got to make this so you don't get financially 2

hurt if you're going to do this? 3

A. No, I think as on any negotiation, I 4

think in the beginning, when I was having discussions 5

with Bill, I believe on that Friday, I recall throwing 6

out a number, somewhere around 2,7 or 2,8. 7

Q. Per year? 8

A. Per year. 9

Q. Guaranteed annual compensation? 10


Q. Coach Rodriguez, at the time at West 12

Virginia, was making about 1,8, approximately? I 13

think you had rounded it up in one of your e-mails to 14

2 million. 15

A. It was somewhere close. I believe, '07, 16

I think his total annual guaranteed compensation was 17

either 1.4 or 1.45, and he had 330,000 being deferred, 18

and then there were bonuses and stuff. 19

Q. So about 1,8 approximately? 20

A. Uh-huh. 21


A. In total guaranteed annual compensation, 23

including the deferred.24

459

Q. All right. And who came up with the 2,7 1

to 2,8, was that something you came up with? 2

A. Yes. That was a number I came up with in 3

my discussions with Bill to start off with. 4

Q. And how did you come up with that figure? 5

A. I looked at market value; I keep -- I 6

keep an updated spreadsheet in regards to coaches' 7

salaries, buyouts, et cetera, like that, so I looked 8

at -- 9

Q. So you do put a market value on coaches, 10

then? 11

A. I do. 12

Q. Okay. So even though you can't tell 13

us -- 14

A. With -- with -- at the time -- at the 15

time when it becomes time to negotiate a contract and 16

I have to throw a number out there, I'm going to do my 17

research and come up with a number to start 18

negotiations. 19

Q. So was Rich Rodriguez's market value more 20

than 4 million bucks, then, as of December of '07? 21

A. Was his market value more than that? 22

Q. Certainly this seven-year contract, 2.7 23

million a year was above that?24

460

A. His annual market value? 1

Q. Just his market value. 2

MR. ROBON: Show an objection 3

to the line of questioning. It's 4

irrelevant. 5

THE WITNESS: I considered his 6

annual -- at this point in time in the 7

market with his success and that, I 8

thought he should be compensated 9

fairly. 10


Q. Did you come up with a market value? You 12

said at that time, then, when you do the contracts for 13

Rich Rodriguez that his market value over seven years 14

is 15, 20 million dollars. 15

A. What I do is I come up with -- first of 16

all, beginning, what is his total annual guaranteed 17

compensation. 18

Q. I'm not interested. Did you come with a 19

market value, generally, that Rodriguez over a -- this 20

contact was to 2013, one year less than West 21

Virginia's amendment. 22

Did you come up with a value, that he has 23

a market value over a six-year span of at least 2 1/2, 24

461

3 million dollars a year during that period? 1

A. Yes, I did. 2

Q. That would put a market value on a 3

six-year employment contract somewhere around 18 4

million bucks then? 5


Q. Is that right? 7


Q. Which is a market kind of -- I understand 9

you're putting price tags on people, and it's 10

difficult to do that, isn't it? 11

A. It is. 12

Q. It's very difficult to measure what a 13

coach's value is and what it is to the school and all 14

that other stuff, isn't it? 15

A. A negotiation is two-sided. I have a 16

value and they have a value of what they think they 17

can afford. 18

Q. All right. I understand. 19

A. What they're willing to pay. It's a 20

free-market economy. 21

Q. I understand. I understand. At least 22

according to this, it looks like the market value for 23

Rodriguez around December, because of using the 24

462

contract for Michigan alone, over a six-year period -- 1

you got to reduce that to what's called present 2

value -- 3

A. Present value. 4

Q. -- it's certainly more than 10 million 5

bucks at a minimum, isn't it? 6

A. Over that period of time, yes. 7

Q. Okay. And that's as of December of '07? 8


Q. When he left West Virginia? 10


Q. Now, the -- some people that I want to 12

ask you about, that one is your other customer, Magee, 13

Calvin Magee? 14

A. Calvin Magee. 15

Q. As I understand, you made some reports to 16

the press about some statements that a gentleman by 17

the name of Aschebrook had made, and you relayed that, 18

that you had been told some things from this Magee guy 19

that was your -- 20

A. Client. 21

Q. No, customer. 22


MR. FITZSIMMONS: Mr. Robon, you 24

463

should object to him saying that. 1


Q. Your customer. 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. Okay. 5

A. Okay. 6

Q. Do you recall that? 7

A. I recall that. 8

Q. All right. And you actually gave 9

statements to the press on that, a guy by the name of 10

Chuck Finder? 11


Q. Do you know Mr. Finder? 13

A. I do know Mr. Finder, along with a lot of 14

the other reporters. 15

Q. I'm sorry. Did somebody ask you that? 16

A. No. 17

Q. Okay. Let's try to just answer the 18

questions. We got a plane we want to try to get on; 19

Mr. Robon wants to go to the -- 20

A. Orchestra. 21

Q. -- orchestra. 22

A. Uh-huh. 23

Q. Did you call Mr. Finder?24

464

A. I did. 1

Q. And so you intentionally gave him 2

information knowing that it probably would be reported 3

in the press? 4

A. That's his decision, whether he was going 5

to report it in the press. 6

Q. You called a news reporter from the 7

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Mr. Finder? 8

A. I did on December 24th at 4:37 p.m. and 9

we talked for seven minutes. 10

Q. December 24th? 11


Q. And when was the press conference, do you 13

know? 14

A. The press conference, I believe, was the 15

week before, December -- 16

Q. December 16th, wasn't it, the day the 17

agreement was signed, letter of intent? 18

A. The 14th, the 15th, the 16th -- the press 19

conference was on Monday, December the 17th. 20

Q. December the 17th? 21


Q. All right. And you had been told at that 23

press conference by Magee that there had been a 24

465

statement made concerning his ability to coach West 1

Virginia or be considered as a coach; is that correct? 2

A. No, that's incorrect. 3

Q. Did Magee talk to you on the 17th of 4

December? 5

A. He did not. 6

Q. Magee was present for the press 7

conference? 8

A. He was. 9

Q. You were present for the press 10

conference? 11

A. I was. 12

Q. Did you have any discussions with Magee 13

on the 17th of December, 2007, at a press conference? 14

A. No, I did not. Did I have any 15

discussions in regard -- sure, Calvin and I talked 16

about lots of things. 17

Q. So you were talking to Mr. Magee on the 18

17th of December? 19

A. I was. And his wife. 20

Q. Do you represent Mr. Magee in any claims 21

against West Virginia University -- 22



466

Q. -- as representative or anything? 1

A. Mr. Magee has made claims and is in 2

discussions with Jennifer McIntosh; Calvin talks to me 3

in regards to what's going on, and I lend him advice 4

and that. 5

MR. WAKEFIELD: You've got two 6

minutes, Bob. 7


much time do we have now? 9

Let's go ahead and change the 10

video. 11







Brown, let's see if I can wrap this up 18

here in the next couple hours. 19

MR. ROBON: You're making my 20

sinuses drain more. 21


Q. The December 14, 2007, meeting that was 23

held up in Toledo, you gave me the list of those 24

467

people, you indicated that Attorney Robon -- Robon and 1

Attorney Davis came in the room after the meeting had 2

started, part of it; is that correct? 3

A. What happened was, there were -- they 4

were in another room separate from Bill Martin and 5

Mary Sue Coleman. Mary Sue Coleman and Bill Martin 6

never -- I don't remember ever that day -- I cannot 7

recall, but I do not recall them meeting Marv Robon 8

and the other people that showed up later. 9

There were individual -- in other words, 10

Bill and Mary Sue stayed in one room, and I believe 11

Marv and the others were in another room. 12

Q. What was your understanding as to why 13

attorneys were waiting there in another room? 14

A. What was the reason? 15

Q. What was your understanding? 16

A. That -- I believe that Rich wanted to, as 17

he was going through this decision process, he wanted 18

to examine and look at all of the different details 19

involved in such a move. And that's how come the 20

accountant was there; and that's how come the -- I 21

believe either the accountant or Bennett Speyer was 22

there; Mike Wilcox was there; and also Marv and Ethan 23

were there.24

468

Q. So at that time on December 14th, there 1

was this term sheet also, or letter of intent from 2

Michigan, what had been proposed as a letter of intent 3

on some of the material parts of the contract between 4

Rodriguez and Michigan; is that right? 5

A. Yeah. That was discussed by Bill Martin 6

and myself at the end of the meeting with just Bill 7

and Mike Wilcox and myself in a room. I believe Marv 8

and all the others had already left the Wilcox complex 9

at that times. 10

Q. Was that a final version of the letter of 11

intent on the 14th -- 12

A. No. 13

Q. -- did you come to that? 14

A. No, it was -- it was not. 15

Q. It was changed from that point on; is 16

that correct? 17


Q. In fact, 2 million dollars in liquidated 19

damages had been originally proposed in the initial 20

letter of intent between Rodriguez and Michigan; is 21

that right? 22


Q. And it was Rodriguez's team that 24

469

requested that increase it from 2 million -- or 1

requested that it be increased from 2 million to 4 2

million at that time; is that right? 3


Q. And you were part of that team to also 5

encourage them to increase it to 4 million on both 6

sides? 7

A. It was -- Rich Rodriguez requested that 8

it be changed from 2 million to 4 million. 9

Q. And you approved of it? 10

A. He's my client, and he gave me a reason, 11

which I thought at that time was a good reason. 12

Q. You didn't -- you didn't object to it; 13

you didn't say, Don't sign, Don't do this, or anything 14

like that? 15

A. I did not. 16

Q. All right. 17

A. Rich said that -- he said, I want it 18

raised to 4 million dollars. I'm looking at worst 19

case being that I may have to pay West Virginia some 20

buyout money, and what if I get fired after one year. 21

He wanted maximum protection all the way 22

around. 23

Q. All right. And you, as an agent, looking 24

470

at these provisions and letters of intent, felt that 1

the 4 million dollars, both for Michigan to pay to 2

Rodriguez and Rodriguez to pay to Michigan in the 3

event as to who would walk away from the contract, you 4

felt that both of those provisions were valid and 5

enforceable when signed by Michigan and by Rodriguez 6

at that time, is that true, in your opinion? 7



You can give your opinion. 10


Q. I'm not asking for a legal -- in your 12

opinion, you felt they were both valid and enforceable 13

at that time, right? 14


THE WITNESS: They were valid, 16

but I had a very good feeling that they 17

would never be addressed or it would 18

never become an issue, because Michigan 19

has stepped up right at the very 20

beginning and gave Rich Rodriguez -- 21


Q. Mr. Brown, I'm not interested -- 23

A. -- everything that he wanted that West 24

471

Virginia did not. 1

Q. -- in propaganda here; I'm just 2

interested in answers. 3

A. Okay. 4

Q. Do you believe in your -- as the 5

representative of the Rodriguezes when that letter of 6

intent was signed -- 7


Q. -- the 4 million dollar liquidated damage 9

clause, both ways, Rodriguez to Michigan and Michigan 10

to Rodriguez, was valid and enforceable by both 11

parties? 12

MR. ROBON: Can we clear up one 13

thing? 14


Q. Just answer the question. 16

MR. ROBON: Well, let me 17

interpose an objection so there's no 18

misunderstanding. You were talking about 19

December 14th when it was issued. 20


know. 22

MR. ROBON: I want to clarify 23

that it wasn't signed then. 24

472


Q. The final letter of intent -- 2

MR. ROBON: Okay. 3


Q. The 4 million dollars. It went from 2 5

million to 4 million. 6

A. That was signed by Rich on December the 7

16th. 8

Q. And Michigan. 9

A. Right. 10

Q. Is that valid, enforceable provision both 11

ways, in your opinion, the liquidated damages of 4 12

million dollars in the letter of intent between 13

Michigan and Rodriguez? 14

A. In the letter of intent? 15


answer. 17



Q. Mr. Finder indicates in the Pittsburgh 20

Post-Gazette article, it says, According to Brown -- 21

do you know of any other Brown that represents 22

Rodriguez -- 23

A. No.24

473

Q. -- except for you? Yes? 1

A. That's me. 2

Q. Do you know of any other Calvin Magees or 3

Calvins that are associated with West Virginia and 4

Rodriguez and you? 5

A. No. 6

Q. It says, (reading:) According to Brown, 7

who declined to identify the person involved in this 8

incident, quote, Calvin was in discussions with this 9

West Virginia University administrator, and Calvin 10

kind of politely asked him, Do you think I have a 11

shot, brackets, at becoming the next Mountaineer head 12

coach, unbrackets, question mark. 13

A. Uh-huh. 14

Q. Did you tell Mr. Finder that? 15

A. Yes, I did. 16

Q. It then goes on and says, (Reading:) The 17

administrator said -- this is Magee telling you -- No, 18

you don't, and pointed to his skin, and that's why 19

Calvin got on the plane. 20

Do you recall telling Mr. Finder that? 21

A. I can't recall the exact thing that I 22

told him, but I did have a discussion with 23

Chuck Finder on Sunday, December the 25th and told him 24

474

about the two incidents with Aschebrook and Pastilong. 1

I had another discussion with Pastilong -- 2

Q. Wait a second, Mr. Brown. My question 3

was did you tell him that statement, to the best of 4

your knowledge? 5


THE WITNESS: I did make a -- I 7

did have -- I did make statements to 8

Chuck. I can't recall specifically the 9

exact thing I said. 10


Q. Do you have any reason to dispute the 12

accuracy of Mr. Finder's reporting in this report? 13

A. No, I do not. 14

Q. All right. Sounds -- sounds correct as 15

to what you would have told him -- 16

A. Uh-huh. 17

Q. -- when you called Mr. Finder and gave 18

him this story about an administrator of West Virginia 19

and Mr. -- Coach Magee; is that correct? 20

A. Uh-huh, uh-huh. 21

Q. Yes? 22


You can answer. 24

475


question. 2


Q. This appears to be accurate to the best 4

of your recollection as to what you specifically would 5

have told Chuck Finder when he interviewed you on this 6

story about Aschebook and Magee and issues concerning 7

the color of a person's skin? 8


Q. Did you meet with Mr. Robon at all, 10

Robon -- 11

MR. FITZSIMMONS: I'm sorry, 12

Marv, is that -- 13

MR. ROBON: "Robon." 14


Q. -- Mr. Robon or Mr. Davis at all on the 16

time when the meeting occurred on December 14th up 17

there, they were in another office up there, in Mike 18

Wilcox's office? 19

A. I -- that was the first time that I met 20

Marv and Ethan, and I did sit in at various periods of 21

the discussions that were going on. I went back and 22

forth between that room and the room where Mary Sue 23

and Bill Martin were.24

476

Q. To your knowledge, was Mr. -- was counsel 1

representing Rodriguez in the negotiations at all with 2

Michigan, or was that something you were principally 3

handling? 4

A. Repeat that again. 5

Q. Yeah. Did Coach -- Mr. Rodriguez have an 6

attorney representing him in the negotiations, or were 7

you principally representing Rodriguez in the Michigan 8

negotiations? 9

A. Myself and Mike Wilcox were principally 10

representing Coach Rodriguez in the negotiations. 11

Q. But these persons with their various 12

expertises were there for purposes of consulting 13

before agreeing to anything on the 14th, even though 14

there was no agreement? 15

A. There were providing opinions and 16

giving -- Rich would ask questions, and they would -- 17

they would provide questions to Rich at that time. 18

Q. All right. Did you understand Mr. Robon 19

and Mr. Davis were representing Rodriguez in the 20

Michigan transaction also, or at least providing some 21

advice at that time? 22

A. At that point -- 23


477

If you know. 1

THE WITNESS: At this point in 2

time, I just think they were having an 3

introductory conversation. Rich was 4

asking some questions; Marv was providing 5

some free legal advice. It wasn't until, 6

I believe, later on, that Rich actually 7

retained Marvin. 8


Q. But there was being -- you understood -- 10

MR. ROBON: Object to the word 11

"free." 12


Q. Who had -- who had Mr. Robon and 14

Mr. Davis there? 15

A. Pardon me? 16

Q. Who had them there? Who made the 17

arrangements to have these attorneys there? 18

A. Mike Wilcox. 19

Q. Mr. Rodriguez indicated he never met 20

them, or didn't even know who they were at that time? 21


Q. Wilcox brought them in to consult with 23

Rodriguez, as you understood?24

478


Q. And was that for the Michigan or was that 2

also for the West Virginia issues, or do you know? 3


If you know. 5

THE WITNESS: I don't know. 6


Q. Did you suggest to Billy Martin at any 8

time that Michigan needs to pay enough money to pick 9

up the liquidated damage monies in the contract? 10

MR. ROBON: I'm going to -- 11


Q. Did you suggest it? 13

MR. ROBON: I object, and I 14

instruct you not to answer. 15


have no right to instruct him not to 17

answer. 18

MR. ROBON: That's -- the court 19

already made a ruling. It's irrelevant 20

to this case. 21

MR. FITZSIMMONS: You have no 22

right to direct this witness not to 23

answer that question. 24

479

MR. ROBON: I suggest you not 1

answer it. 2


Q. Did you -- did you suggest to 4

Billy Martin or anybody from Michigan that they pay 5

some portion or give some money in order to pay 6

towards the liquidated damages of West Virginia? 7

MR. ROBON: Same advice. 8

THE WITNESS: I'm not answering 9

that question. 10


Q. You're refusing to answer under oath? 12

A. Yep. 13

Q. All right. I'm going to direct you at 14

this time to answer. We have you here present for the 15

purpose of a deposition, and you are obligated to 16

answer questions here. 17

MR. McGINLEY: Hey, Bob, what's 18

the relevance? 19

MR. FITZSIMMONS: The relevance? 20

MR. McGINLEY: Yeah. The judge 21

said it wasn't relevant, so what's the 22

relevance? 23


480

the judge did not say it wasn't relevant, 1

what the judge -- on that particular 2

issue. 3

The relevance is that there is a 4

vested stake in this contract, first of 5

all, with Michigan; second of all, it 6

sets some of the parameters of the 7

negotiable terms of the new contract, the 8

letter of intent that exists with 9

Michigan at this point also. 10

MR. WAKEFIELD: And let me 11

interject, as well, that I think this 12

witness specifically testified today and 13

Mr. Rodriguez has specifically testified 14

that they believe that the 4 million 15

dollar liquidated damage provision in the 16

West Virginia contract held Mr. Rodriguez 17

hostage. 18

It now placed into issue the 19

question of whether that really does hold 20

him hostage; and if, in fact, there was 21

some sort of agreement or request that 22

the provision be paid, that certainly is 23

contrary to the statement of the 24

481

witnesses. 1

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Go 2

ahead, Mr. Brown. 3

THE WITNESS: I'm not answering 4

the question. 5


Q. You're refusing to answer the question? 7


Q. When you did your evaluation for the 9

market value of Rodriguez, what consideration did you 10

give to paying back the liquidated damages that were 11

going to be owed to West Virginia? 12

A. I didn't calculate any in there. I was 13

just looking at market value of total annual 14

guaranteed compensation. 15

Q. Well, you had to come up with some 16

amount, figure as to what would be necessary so your 17

customer would make at least what he was making at 18

West Virginia, which potentially includes paying 19

liquidated damages of 4 million dollars. 20

A. Never -- 21

Q. Are you telling us you never considered 22

the payment of the 4 million dollars in your 23

evaluation of the salary request in your negotiations; 24

482

is that your testimony under oath? 1


Q. Is someone else paying the liquidated 3

damage or obligated to pay the liquidated damage, 4

other than Rodriguez? 5


Instruct you not to answer. 7

MR. FITZSIMMONS: He has no 8

right to instruct you to do anything. 9

THE WITNESS: What's the 10

question again? 11


Q. Is someone else obligated to pay the 13

liquidated damages -- 14

A. Not that I -- 15

MR. ROBON: I instruct you not 16

to answer. 17

THE WITNESS: I'm not going to 18

answer anything in regards to that, 19

because I am aware of the judge's ruling 20

that any -- so, you know, you can go talk 21

to the judge. If the judge says, Come 22

back and compel to answer, then I'll sit 23

down and talk with you. 24

483


Robon, just by -- you have directed him 2

twice not to answer. I think you're 3

interfering with our deposition 4

intentionally. I think you have no right 5

to do that. 6

I would ask you to withdraw that 7

on the record at this time, your 8

statement, and now suggest, since you 9

have encouraged a witness to not answer a 10

proper question that's being asked by 11

deposition -- 12

MR. ROBON: I think the judge's 13

ruling said it was irrelevant. If I'm 14

wrong and the judge says, Answer it, I'm 15

sure he will answer it. 16

MR. FITZSIMMONS: One further 17

reason, just for the record, that we 18

believe that there is already developed 19

sufficient evidence that the 20

breach-of-contract claim, which finds its 21

way into the January 10th, '08, letter in 22

detail, was a pretext to utilize in order 23

to avoid payment of that particular 24

484

amount of liquidated damages, is another 1

reason, just so the record is clear. 2

MR. ROBON: That's simply 3

argument or surmising on your part. 4

MR. FITZSIMMONS: No, no. You 5

asked for the reason -- Mr. McGinley 6

specifically asked for the reason -- 7

MR. ROBON: Uh-huh. 8

MR. FITZSIMMONS: And complying 9

with your co-counsel, West Virginia 10

counsel. 11

MR. ROBON: Okay. 12


are unwilling to direct this witness 14

to -- that you're going to withdraw your 15

direction to a non-client, non -- 16

nobody -- somebody that you do not 17

represent? 18

MR. ROBON: I'm advising him 19

what the judge -- he's aware of what the 20

judge's ruling was. 21

MR. FITZSIMMONS: No, no. My 22

question is are you not going to withdraw 23

your direction to this witness. 24

485

MR. ROBON: I'm not going to 1

withdraw my objection. 2

MR. FITZSIMMONS: All right. 3


Q. Two football players from West Virginia, 5

Slaton and Renaud, are you familiar with those 6

football players? 7

A. I am. 8

Q. And do they have an agent for purposes of 9

the NFL and the Players' Association? 10

A. They do. 11

Q. And do you know who their agents are? 12

A. Eric Metz. 13

Q. Same guy you share fees with with 14

Rodriguez? 15

A. Yeah, as -- on the coaching side. 16

Q. Are you receiving any portion of fees of 17

Mr. Slaton -- in any way, directly or indirectly, that 18

Mr. Slaton would receive and Mr. Renaud would receive 19

for which commissions are being charged? 20


object. 22

You can answer. 23

THE WITNESS: The answer is 24

486

no. 1


Q. On 8-24-07, there's been testimony from 3

your customer Rodriguez that before signing the second 4

amended agreement, that he went around to everybody on 5

his team in the room and asked them, Are you okay with 6

me signing this. 7

According to Coach Rodriguez, everybody 8

present, including you, said, Go ahead and sign it. 9

Are you disputing that, that that 10

happened on August 24th, 2007, now? 11

A. I have no -- I cannot remember that in 12

regards to that meeting that day. 13

Q. So you very well may have also approved 14

of Coach Rodriguez when he specifically said, Should I 15

sign, and you gave your approval that day? 16


Q. You don't recall one way or another? 18

A. I don't recall one way or another. 19

Q. I thought you told us in this deposition 20

earlier you told Rodriguez not to sign. 21

A. Prior to that meeting, I did tell him not 22

to sign. 23

Q. Were you aware of any conflicts that 24

487

you -- do you know when you were an agent of any 1

conflict in representing both coaches and players of 2

professional football, college coaches and players 3

within the same firm? 4

A. Say it again. 5

Q. Were you aware of conflicts that prohibit 6

agents who represent players going to pro teams from 7

also representing college coaches in their contractual 8

endeavors? 9

A. There's no -- there's no -- 10

Q. You aren't aware of any? 11

A. No, I'm not aware of any. 12

Q. Why did you give up your NFL 13

certification? 14

A. Why did I give up my NFL certification? 15

Because, as I said previously, I was focusing on 16

representing just coaches, and I felt that it was a 17

conflict of interest to be a certified contract 18

advisor and represent players in regards to the number 19

of coaches and friends that I have, and that I did not 20

want to put my coaching friends in a -- all across the 21

country, assistant coaches, associate AD or ADs, in a 22

very uncomfortable situation. 23

Q. So you felt it was a conflict to 24

488

represent both college coaches and players coming out 1

at the same time; is that right? 2

A. Yeah. I feel that's a conflict. 3

Q. And that's what this firm has now. They 4

have you associated with them representing coaches and 5

players coming out specifically now being represented 6

from the same university here, West Virginia? 7

A. That's correct, uh-huh. 8

Q. Do you still feel it's a conflict? 9

A. Do I feel it's a conflict. 10

Q. Do you still feel it's a conflict? 11

A. I still feel it's a conflict. There's 12

some -- 13

Q. Did you say to Mr. Metz that, you know, I 14

shouldn't associate with you folks anymore because 15

this doesn't look good? 16

A. I told -- yeah, I told Eric that I don't 17

feel it looks good that -- that -- way back, going 18

into October 2006, that it doesn't look good that I 19

remain as an agent representing players and 20

representing coaches. 21

Q. How about the firm? I mean, the firm 22

represents players and you represent coaches, and you 23

guys are sharing information, and you guys have 24

489

financial interests that you share. 1

A. There is many -- 2


THE WITNESS: Okay. There's 4

many of the top agencies where actually 5

the same agent represents coaches and 6

players. Tom -- 7


Q. I'm not asking about other agents. I'm 9

asking as to you and this firm, LMM. 10

A. Yeah, yeah. 11

Q. You've talked to Mr. Metz about the 12

conflict to the -- 13

A. Yeah, I did. 14

Q. Okay. Why don't you exit from this firm 15

so there isn't a conflict, then, if you believe that 16

this information exists? 17


THE WITNESS: I didn't have to 19

exit, because we have thrown -- we have 20

thrown up a wall where I do not represent 21

players, I just deal directly with 22

coaches. 23


490

Q. Of course, Metz, who represents now 1

Slaton and Renaud, has been representing Rodriguez 2

since '05 when those two young men came to West 3

Virginia, right? 4


Q. You don't see that as a conflict? 6


THE WITNESS: No, I don't. 8


Q. What documents did you bring here today 10

for the deposition? Did you just pull some documents 11

you thought were important or -- 12

A. Yeah. About various different topics 13

that we may discuss today. 14

Q. Was anything provided to you, any 15

documents provided to you from any source? 16

A. No, it was all me going through the 17

discovery that's already been turned over, the topics 18

that I -- that I felt might be discussed and that, 19

so -- and I don't -- I haven't gone through yet, but I 20

think there may be some stuff that's -- most of it's 21

public knowledge and stuff that's been already 22

transferred between West Virginia and myself and 23

whoever.24

491

Q. Did you help get Coach Rodriguez ready 1

for his deposition at all? 2

A. Did I get him ready? 3

Q. Did you prep him at all with anybody? 4

A. No, I did not. 5

Q. Did anybody prep you for the deposition? 6

A. Yes. 7

Q. Who was that? 8

A. Marv and Ethan and Sean. 9

Q. Okay. You met with them, and went 10

through all the facts and things like that, did you, 11

generally? 12

A. Marv gave me a video I looked at in 13

Atlanta and returned to him yesterday. 14

Q. How to testify in a deposition? 15

A. What a deposition is like. Then 16

yesterday I got on the phone -- I mean I got -- Sean 17

was on the phone with Marv and I and, you know, we 18

talked about what about a deposition process is going 19

to go like. 20

Q. Did you talk about facts and go through 21

records at all, discuss those in any way? 22

A. Not facts and that, but they mentioned 23

what some of the subject areas they might -- that you 24

492

might touch on. 1

Q. You didn't talk about generally what some 2

of your recollection was and things like that? 3

A. We did not go into that detail that I can 4

recall. 5

Q. Anyone else present at that time, any of 6

those meetings? 7

A. The only ones yesterday were Sean, Ethan 8

and I in a conference room at Marv's office, and Sean 9

was on the phone. 10

Q. How long was that? 11

A. I think I left there at 3:30 and got 12

there around -- I mean, we left at 6:30, and I got 13

there around 4:00, so I was there for about 14

two-and-a-half hours. 15

Q. Two-and-a-half hours. You met with the 16

attorneys and just watched -- you watched the video at 17

home? 18

A. Yeah, I already watched the video. 19

Q. Okay. So two-and-a-half hours just 20

talking about subject areas, is that what all these 21

attorneys and you, for two-and-a-half hours, all you 22

talked about was subject areas? 23

A. Well, we've been here how long today so 24

493

far? 1

Q. I'm just asking as to what you talked 2

about with these attorneys. 3

A. Yeah, we talked for quite a while. 4

Q. You didn't go through any of the facts, 5

is that your testimony? 6

A. We touched -- we touched on subject areas 7

that -- they brought up subject areas that you -- that 8

you would bring up and discuss, and we talked about 9

those subject areas. 10

Q. Did you have discussions about some of 11

those areas, the importance of some of those areas? 12

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I mean -- 13

A. No, I mean -- 14

Q. Did you guys talk about certain things, 15

and correcting each other's memories and things like 16

that? 17

A. No, because they weren't present when any 18

of this stuff took place. They told me to tell the 19

truth, and I've told the truth as best I can 20

recollect. And, again, they touched on the areas that 21

they were going to touch on and that. 22

Q. Have you ever been deposed before? 23

A. It has been in the early 1990s, I was 24

494

deposed. 1

Q. What kind of case was that? 2

A. It was a business case, where we had -- 3

in regards to United Technology where I was working, 4

there -- it was a business case, I recall. 5

Q. And what was your involvement, just as a 6

witness? 7

A. As a witness. 8

Q. Have you ever been sued? 9

A. Have I ever been sued? 10


answer. 12

THE WITNESS: Let me see here. 13

I think I'm being sued currently in the 14

state of South Carolina in regards to the 15

real estate LLC. 16


Q. You personally are being sued? 18

A. I believe so. 19

Q. Are there allegations of fraud in that 20

particular lawsuit? 21

A. No. 22

Q. No? 23

A. No.24

495

Q. What are the allegations? 1

A. I have to go back. It's -- the suit was 2

brought on by a Mr. Lamar Green who -- 3

Q. Just what are the allegations, sir? 4

A. I think defamation of character, some 5

other things. 6

Q. They're alleging that you defamed their 7

character? 8

A. He does, yeah. 9

Q. What is that person's name? 10

A. Lamar Green. 11

Q. Do you know what county that's in? 12

A. Pickens County. 13

Q. Any other lawsuits that have ever been 14

filed against you? 15


Q. How about any -- have you ever been 17

arrested before? 18


You can answer. 20

THE WITNESS: Have I ever been 21

arrested? 22

MR. ROBON: That's a -- do you 23

want to define "arrested"? I know like 24

496

for a traffic ticket you do get arrested. 1


Q. I'll give you a little primer course on 3

arrest and search and seizures and that afterwards. 4

A. I got arrested in the early 1980s in 5

Raleigh, North Carolina. 6

Q. I'm not talking about speeding tickets 7

and things. Any DUIs -- 8

A. No. 9

Q. -- or crimes at all? 10

A. No. 11

Q. What did you get arrested for in Raleigh? 12

A. I had gone to graduate school at the 13

University of Florida, and evidently I had received a 14

speeding ticket that I never paid, and when I got -- 15

Q. Is that the extent of it? 16

A. -- when I got pulled over -- 17

Q. How long did you go to graduate school at 18

the University of Florida? 19

A. I was in graduate school there from 20

December of '79 until -- I believe I was there for two 21

football seasons, so that was December of '79 through 22

1980. 23

Q. And what were you studying for?24

497

A. I was a graduate assistant in the 1

football department there. 2

Q. Graduate assistant doing what? 3

A. I was in charge of -- let me see. At 4

that time, myself and the guy that's now the defensive 5

coordinator for the Bronco -- Broncos, we were in -- I 6

ran the residence hall, Yon Hall. 7

Q. As a graduate assistant you ran the 8

residence hall? 9

A. The athletic dorm, yes. I was the 10

assistant academic counselor. 11

Q. Were you in school? 12

A. Yes, I was in school part time. 13

Q. What were you studying? 14

A. I was taking some education classes. 15

Q. You didn't complete any degrees or 16

anything, you just have some hours there? 17

A. Hours there, yes. 18

Q. Any other matters that you were ever 19

arrested? 20

A. Other than not paying that speeding 21

ticket, no, that I can recall. 22

Q. Have you ever been denied or prohibited 23

from filing for a professional license, whether it be 24

498

engineer, sports agent? 1

A. No. 2

Q. Would you give me Jennifer's address? 3

A. I can forward it to you. I don't have it 4

with me. 5

Q. Can you give me her phone number? 6

A. I don't have that with me either. 7

Q. I thought she was like a sister to you. 8

A. She is. 9

Q. Okay. You don't have her number on you? 10

A. No. 11

Q. You don't know it? 12

A. No, huh-uh. It's back at the house. 13

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Okay. I don't 14

have any other questions for you at this 15

time. 16

THE WITNESS: Okay. 17


Q. Let me ask you -- Mr. Robon may have some 19

questions for you. Have you given full and complete 20

answers to each and every question I've asked you here 21

today to the best of your knowledge and ability? 22

A. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 23

Q. Sometimes people give answers that are 24

499

shortened or abbreviated when they know or believe 1

that a full explanation might change the meaning. I 2

don't think that applies to any answer that you gave 3

here, but I'm going to tell you that and ask you, have 4

you intentionally shortened any of your answers when 5

you felt an explanation in your opinion would have 6

changed the meaning of your answer? Have you done 7

that intentionally at all? 8

A. No, I haven't. 9

Q. Did you have your deposition taken in the 10

Green case that's down in Pickens County? 11

A. There's been no schedule -- date 12

scheduled or anything like that. It may have been 13

already dismissed by now, for all I know. 14

Q. Or a verdict; of course, you probably 15

would have heard about that. 16

A. Yeah. 17

Q. The court reporter is going to type up 18

your testimony, your answers to the questions that 19

we've asked here today. 20

A. Okay. 21

Q. And she is also going to type up the 22

questions that I asked you and any discussions and/or 23

objections that were made by counsel. 24

500

Do you understand that? 1


Q. That's going to be a statement, then, 3

that you've given under oath today. Do you understand 4

that? 5


Q. She will then send you a copy of the 7

transcript, if you want it; you have a right to review 8

all your answers and review her transcription of your 9

answers. 10

A. Uh-huh. 11

Q. Do you understand that? 12


Q. In West Virginia, you have a right to 14

make certain changes in your answer later on, but it's 15

done under another oath that you have to take. 16

Do you understand what I just told you? 17


Q. You can make typographical changes, 19

grammatical changes, spelling changes, you can add a 20

word just to make something sound better, that's some 21

of the changes you can make. 22

Do you understand what I just told you? 23

A. I understand that.24

501

Q. You can also change the substance of your 1

answer. 2

A. Uh-huh. 3

Q. Do you understand -- 4

A. I understand. 5

Q. -- what I just told you? 6

A. Uh-huh. 7

Q. Yes? 8

A. Yes. 9

Q. Okay. So that "yes," if you want to 10

change it to the total opposite, to "no" later on, you 11

can do that also. Do you understand that? 12


Q. But if you do that later on, there then 14

will be two statements given at two different times 15

under oath that are totally different. You understand 16

that that can occur? 17

A. I can, yeah. 18

Q. And you've seen on TV and movies and 19

things like that where somebody's testifying and 20

somebody gives an answer, and they say, Well, you said 21

something else differently. Do you understand that? 22


Q. Is there anything that you have said 24

502

today that you believe was wrong or incorrect, that 1

stands out in your mind, so that you could correct it 2

today so there isn't a different statement out there 3

in the future that you make under oath? 4

A. No. 5

Q. You feel totally comfortable with each 6

and every answer that you gave or to each and every 7

question that I've asked you to the best of your 8

knowledge and belief. Is that a fair statement? 9

A. Yes. 10

Q. All right. 11


questions? 13

MR. ROBON: I have a few 14

questions, yes. 15

- - - 16

EXAMINATION 17

BY MR. ROBON: 18

Q. Mr. Brown, Mr. Fitzsimmons mentioned 19

Calvin Magee. Does your representation of him have 20

any involvement with Coach Rodriguez with regard to 21

this case, or is it just the fact that you're 22

representing another coach? 23

A. I'm representing another coach.24

503

Q. Okay. And there was a great deal of time 1

spent by Mr. Fitzsimmons with regard to Exhibits 56 2

and 57 that said something about betting. 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. Do you recall that? 5

A. Yes, I recall that. 6

Q. Were you charged with any crime or did 7

you commit any illegal acts relating to illegal 8

betting or those documents? 9

MR. FITZSIMMONS: I'm going to 10

object to him -- he's not qualified to 11

render a legal opinion as to whether he 12

committed legal or criminal actions. 13

MR. ROBON: I'll rephrase the 14

question. 15

BY MR. ROBON: 16

Q. Were you charged with any crimes? 17

A. No. 18

Q. You were then not prosecuted for 19

anything, correct? 20

A. No. 21

Q. Did you think anything that you did was 22

illegal or a violation of state or federal law? 23

A. No.24

504

Q. Okay. There was an investigation that 1

Mr. Fitzsimmons made remarks regarding. What was the 2

result of that investigation, if you know? 3

A. All I know is that there was a 4

disgruntled employee that left Touchstone Research, 5

who I was his direct supervisor, that came back at 6

some time after he left the company and made 7

allegations against Touchstone that included myself 8

and other individuals. 9

I believe that the Department of Defense 10

investigators came down, took out boxes and boxes, 11

cost tens of thousands of dollars to reproduce some of 12

the documents, and this was in 2002. That 13

investigation continued. 14

The owners of the company knew of the 15

allegations in regard to the sports betting and other 16

stuff there. When I left Touchstone Research, which I 17

believe -- let me see. This is '8, I got married in 18

'04, so I believe I left Touchstone in '05. At that 19

point in time, they never came to me, raised any 20

issues. 21

While working there over -- from 2001 to 22

when I left in 2005 as director of marketing, their 23

annual sales grew by 400 percent, so they were very 24

505

satisfied with my job and performance. So there 1

was -- from the time those allegations were made until 2

the time I handed in my resignation at Touchstone, to 3

the best of my knowledge, they were completely happy 4

with my performance and didn't consider it to be 5

anything that would cause me to be terminated there. 6

Q. Did you -- while you were at Touchstone, 7

were you basically entertainment? 8

A. Pardon me? 9

Q. Were you entertainment on the new media 10

or on the radio, is that what you -- when you said 11

"voice-overs"? 12

A. When I was at Touchstone, what I would 13

do, of course, I was working 50- to 60-hour weeks just 14

in regard to building that business up there. And I 15

would take time out on Thursdays, if I remember 16

correctly, to do some of those voice-overs, and I was 17

usually on WKNR as an NFL insider on late Friday 18

afternoon. 19

And then I think Dave Rice took and did 20

some of my voice-overs and that on -- on that on 21

Saturday morning. 22

Q. Did you do predictions of who might win 23

or lose like they do on the NFL Today?24

506

A. I would do predictions based on what -- 1

the script and that. Well, I would just read or go 2

through the script and that that Dave Rice had 3

provided me and we had agreed to. That's the way I 4

would read it on the air. Never compensated for 5

anything. 6

Q. And you didn't instruct anybody to place 7

bets based upon your predictions? 8

A. No. 9

Q. And you weren't involved in any betting 10

pools or pool rings? 11

A. No. 12

Q. Okay. Let's go back to the second 13

addendum to the contract that Coach Rodriguez signed 14

on August 24th of 2007. 15

Can you tell the jury what you recall 16

President Garrison said with regard to the 4 million 17

dollar buyout provision? What did he tell 18

Coach Rodriguez or Rita Rodriguez? 19

A. I'm trying to remember the -- the exact 20

way he put it is -- 21

Q. Well, as best you can recollect it. 22

A. I remember this exactly. He said, If you 23

leave after this year, the lawyers will probably get 24

507

together, and they'll just agree on 2 million dollars. 1

And I remember he was standing up when he said that. 2

Q. Okay. Why do you remember he was 3

standing up? Was that a special point that 4

Rich Rodriguez was concerned about? 5

A. No. It was near the end of the meeting, 6

and we were getting ready to leave, and we were 7

finishing up discussions in regards to getting back 8

together in December and January, and Rich was still 9

talking about the fairness of the contract, and that's 10

when Mike Garrison got up and made that statement. 11

And in that same meeting, Mike Garrison 12

and Craig Walker both reiterated that the 4 million 13

dollar number at that time could not be changed 14

because the Board of Governors would not go for it 15

because a stake had already been put into the sand, it 16

would look like a sign of weakness in regards to the 17

Board of Governors, and the publicity was already out 18

there. 19

And then I remember in that meeting I 20

brought up and pointed out to them the -- and I can't 21

remember exactly -- that it was Mike Parsons who had 22

released that term and condition after the term sheet 23

was signed, which was in violation of the 24

508

confidentiality and publicity clause that was in the 1

term sheet. 2

And they said they recognize that, but, 3

you know, based on what they thought the Board -- what 4

Mike Garrison and Craig thought the Board of Governors 5

could accept, they could not address that at that time 6

anyway. 7

And then it was after that, near the end 8

of the meeting where Mike Garrison stood up and said, 9

If you leave after this year, the lawyers will 10

probably just get together and agree on 2 million 11

dollars, split the difference. I remember he said, 12

"Split the difference." 13

Q. Do you believe when Rich signed that 14

addendum on August 24th, '07, that he felt that the 15

liquidated damages provision or the penalty would not 16

be enforced to the fullest extent if he left? 17


object as to asking for an opinion as to 19

what somebody else felt. 20

BY MR. ROBON: 21

Q. Let me ask this question: What do you -- 22

what did Rich indicate to you with regard to the 23

penalty or the liquidated damages at the time he 24

509

signed it? 1


object. Nobody's called it a penalty. 3

It's not a penalty. 4

THE WITNESS: Rich left that 5

meeting that day with faith -- faith is 6

based on when somebody makes a promise -- 7

that every promise that was made that 8

day, all the way from that conversation 9

of liquidated damages, GAs, textbooks and 10

that, website, putting the MSN Network 11

out on bid, he had a complete faith that 12

Mike Garrison was going to live up to 13

everything he said in that meeting. 14

BY MR. ROBON: 15

Q. And those were basically promises that 16

you felt induced Rich to execute the second addendum? 17

A. Yes. 18


object to his feelings, once again, as to 20

what induces anybody to do anything. 21

BY MR. ROBON: 22

Q. Let's say feelings. Is it your -- did 23

you believe at the time Mike Garrison intended to keep 24

510

those promises? 1


Q. At the time Garrison made those promises 3

on August 24th -- you heard the promises, correct? 4


Q. Did you believe that Rich heard those 6

promises? 7

A. I believe Rich heard those promises. 8

Q. Do you believe Rita heard those promises? 9

A. I believe Rita heard those promises. 10

Q. And you believe Mike Wilcox heard those 11

promises? 12

A. I believe Mike Wilcox heard those 13

promises. 14

Q. Do you believe everybody at that meeting 15

believed what Garrison was stating at that time? 16

A. They believed it -- I believe they 17

believed it, especially after Rita cornered and asked 18

a follow-up question to Mike Garrison where she asked 19

Mike Garrison, Mike, what happens if the Board of 20

Governors and Eddie and that get in the way of 21

following through on this, et cetera, et cetera, et 22

cetera. 23

And Mike Garrison said, I'm the president 24

511

of the University now, and implied that he would -- he 1

was in charge and people were going to march to his 2

orders. 3

Q. Okay. Can you explain why there was no 4

written notice of breach of the promises given to West 5


A. Can I explain the reason? 7

Q. Yes. 8

A. Basically, the reason is after 9

Coach Rodriguez met with Mike -- with Craig Walker and 10

Ed Pastilong on December the 15th during the day, and 11

then at Mike Garrison's house on Saturday night, 12

December the 15th, where they had said no to 13

everything, or the items that Rich was then going back 14

and revisiting from the August 24th meeting, that at 15

that point in time, the University was making their 16

statement and implying that there is no need to put in 17

a 30-day notice letter, we've already made up our mind 18

and we're telling you our answer today. 19

Q. Would you tell the jury the comments or 20

information that you had from the Board of Governors 21

or Joe Manchin that President Garrison was going to be 22

named months before he was even nominated as the 23

president of West Virginia University?24

512


Q. Can you tell the jury how the Board of 2

Governors or how you were informed, either through the 3

Board of Governors or Joe Manchin or Rich Rodriguez, 4

how and why President Garrison was going to be named 5

as the next president of the University long before he 6

was ever nominated? 7

A. Rich Rodriguez, on December 8th of 2006, 8

on that Friday, Rich Rodriguez told me that in 9

discussions that day, Steve Farmer told Rich -- you 10

know, because Rich was still bringing up the website 11

and other issues -- that Steve Farmer said that, Don't 12

worry, there is going to be a new president, it's 13

going to be Mike Garrison, all of those things would 14

be taken care of in time. 15

In February, I remember that 16

Coach Rodriguez called again, or we were in 17

conversations, and he mentioned again to me -- because 18

after that, I would actually stay in touch with Rich, 19

I would call Bob Robinson, I would call Denver Allen, 20

who is a good friend of Bob Huggins, and ask around 21

the inner circle, What do you hear on the president's 22

search, what's going to happen in that; and they were 23

all repeating the same thing, that they thought 24

513

Garrison was going to get the job. 1

So in February, I remember Rich called me 2

and said that he had had another conversation with 3

Steve Farmer, and again brought it back up and 4

mentioned to Steve, and Steve said, There's going to 5

be a new president, it's going to be Mike Garrison, 6

don't worry about it. 7

And then during that time and afterwards, 8

Rich told me that Steve Farmer and Drew Payne had 9

contacted him to set up meetings and have discussions 10

with Mike Garrison back in the March, April time 11

frame. 12

And I remember Rich told me on more than 13

one occasion in one of those meetings Mike Garrison 14

said, Are you going to support me for president, and 15

Rich replied to him, I'll support you for president if 16

you're going to support the football program. 17

Q. Who do you believe was responsible for 18

instigating the lawsuit against Rich Rodriguez from 19

the West Virginia University side of the table? 20


object to the question. Totally 22

irrelevant. When you say instigated it, 23

there was no instigation. It was filed. 24

514

BY MR. ROBON: 1

Q. Filed. Who -- 2

A. Who authorized it? 3

Q. Who authorized or directed the filing of 4

the lawsuit? 5

A. Governor Manchin and Steve Goodwin. 6

Q. And why do you believe that? 7

A. Why do I believe that? 8

Q. Yes. 9

A. I believe that there is continued -- 10

continued animosity and hatred by Joe Manchin and 11

Steve Goodwin and Mike Garrison against Coach. 12

Q. Okay. 13

A. I mean, I remember Coach calling me up 14

and saying, Hey, Joe Manchin called me on Sunday 15

night -- and I believe it was either Christmas night 16

or Christmas Eve -- and wanted to apologize for the 17

comments he made previously the week before; and then 18

two or three days later there was a lawsuit filed 19

against him by the state where he's the governor. 20

Q. In your business as a sports agent, are 21

there lots of handshake deals? You mention that there 22

were no written agreements with fees with regard to 23

yourself and coaches. Is there a lot of trust?24

515

A. Yeah, there is a lot of trust in 1

representing, whether it's coaches or even going back 2

to representing players. There is a lot of trust in 3

regards to the team that, you know, you're negotiating 4

with or the school that you're negotiating with. 5

Q. And with regard to the 4 million dollars 6

as a liquidated damages sum, what do you believe are 7

the damages West Virginia University suffered, if any, 8

by virtue of Coach Rodriguez leaving? 9

A. I've actually sat down and calculated, 10

and I think they are going to be 3 to 4 million 11

dollars to the better this year. 12

Now, I can't attribute it to 13

Coach Rodriguez leaving, but I do believe that 14

Coach Rodriguez set a very solid foundation there, and 15

this was one of his goals, is it's -- you know, leave 16

the program in better shape than when he left it, and 17

that the program was not dependent on one person. 18

But I've gone through and calculated, and 19

I've even looked at statements in regards to comments 20

by Eddie Pastilong and that, and in my conversations 21

with -- I had a good friendship with Larry Aschebrook, 22

he would ask me for advice quite frequently on ways to 23

raise revenues there, and also Craig Walker and I 24

516

would gradually, even starting in the summer, forward 1

ideas on how they could raise revenues and that. 2

And from what I understand, they're 3

implementing them in regards to premium game ticket 4

prices for next year, which is going to generate about 5

another million. I asked Larry Aschebrook what did he 6

project the MAC donations to be in regards to year 7

ending 2008 -- 8

Q. MAC being Mountaineer Athletic Club? 9

A. Mountaineer Athletic Club. He said it's 10

probably going to be up about 1.6 million or a total 11

of 18 million over this year. They're implementing a 12

seat-equity program that I'll show you -- and I'll 13

even give it to the attorneys here. Hold on a second. 14

Going through the summer with Larry and 15

Craig, I gave -- you can submit this to the record. 16

Q. Let's mark these as exhibits. 17

A. You can mark these as exhibits. 18

Q. Do you have extra copies? 19

A. No, I can leave these copies here. 20

Q. Okay. 21

A. How to do seat equity -- 22

MR. ROBON: Well, let's mark 23

this as an exhibit. 24

517


copies for us? 2

THE WITNESS: Yeah, you can take 3

these. 4

MR. ROBON: As long as you can 5

part with it. 6

THE WITNESS: Yes. 7

MR. ROBON: Let's mark this 8

as -- why don't you give me some 9

stickers. 10

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Let me place 11

an objection on the record that the 12

witness is totally unqualified to do any 13

type of assessment, I think the record's 14

clear on that. 15

Number two, it's irrelevant. 16

And then -- 17

MR. ROBON: Let me ask the 18

questions here. 19

(Brown Exhibits 59 and 60 20

were marked for identification.) 21

BY MR. ROBON: 22

Q. I'm going to hand you Exhibit 59. What 23

is this document that you just mentioned?24

518

A. This is a document that the associate 1

athletic director gave to me in regards to how they're 2

implementing seat equity at Clemson University, which 3

I passed on to both Craig Walker and Larry Aschebrook 4

at West Virginia so they could look at this in regards 5

to looking at raising revenues to benefit the whole 6

program at West Virginia. 7

Q. Okay. I'm going to hand you what you 8

handed me as Exhibit 60. What is this document? 9

A. This is an actual document that I 10

received from Clemson. It was also given to me, since 11

I'm a season ticket holder at Clemson up through 2007, 12

that they sent out to their season ticket holders on 13

how the seat equity plan was going to work. I 14

provided this to Larry Aschebrook and to Craig Walker, 15

I believe. 16

Q. And can you indicate the purpose of your 17

providing those documents to West Virginia University? 18

A. Craig Walker and I, starting in the 19

summer, and Larry Aschebrook would have constant 20

discussions in regards to the status of college 21

athletics. When we had the meeting on August the 22

24th, part of the discussion that day was a 23

conversation between myself and Craig Walker and 24

519

Mike Garrison on the amount of total revenues that 1

weren't being realized by the athletic department. 2

And that -- that falled under the line 3

which they talked about a change in culture and that. 4

And they -- and I told them there is about 7 -- I 5

calculated 7 1/2 million dollars that they weren't -- 6

that they were leaving on the table. And Craig Walker 7

agreed with me, and then later on I believe I 8

forwarded to Craig -- I do know I gave to Larry 9

Aschebrook. This exhibit here -- 10

MR. ROBON: I'm going to mark 11

that as No. 61. 12



BY MR. ROBON: 15

Q. Tell us what that is. 16

A. That is after, you know, doing research, 17

knowing the -- what's going on at other schools, and 18

talking to other schools about how much revenue 19

they're generating in each one of these areas. 20

I know I passed this on to Larry 21

Aschebrook in regards to potential total revenue that 22

can be raised, and at the bottom, I said, This can be 23

used to fund the items Rich needs for the football 24

520

programs, assistant coaches' salaries, GAs, recruiting 1

coordinator, his salary, textbooks, and et cetera. 2

Q. Okay. And this is a document that you 3

prepared? 4

A. That's a document I prepared. 5

Q. Okay. And the purpose of Exhibits 59, 60 6

and 61 was to help West Virginia University's athletic 7

department? 8


Q. Looking back -- 10

A. I'm no -- there's some more. 11

Q. Go ahead. Finish your answer. 12

MR. WAKEFIELD: Well, wait a 13

minute. I'm going to object to him just 14

giving speeches. This guy has apparently 15

come and has some sort of speech he wants 16

to give. 17

THE WITNESS: I'm -- 18

MR. WAKEFIELD: Now, wait a 19

minute. You know, your job is to respond 20

to questions. 21

THE WITNESS: I had not finished 22

responding to his question. 23

MR. WAKEFIELD: What was the 24

521

question you're responding to? 1

MR. ROBON: My question was -- 2

let's see. 3

MR. WAKEFIELD: You can't tell 4

us. 5

MR. ROBON: Well, I got to get 6

back to it, because I interrupted him two 7

or three times with regard to exhibits. 8

My question was did you 9

indicate -- I asked you about the damages 10

that would be incurred, and you indicated 11

there would be little or nothing incurred 12

by West Virginia University. 13

BY MR. ROBON: 14

Q. My question to you is what is your 15

understanding about liquidated damages? Is it a sum 16

certain or an uncertain sum, or is it a penalty, your 17

understanding? 18


Q. What is your understanding of the 4 20

million dollar figure? Is it a liquidated damages 21

sum, is it a penalty, or is it an estimate of what 22

damages might be in relationship to the West Virginia 23

contract?24

522


object. He doesn't have the 2

qualifications. The judge decides what 3

liquidated damage is. 4

MR. ROBON: I just want to know 5

what his opinion is. 6

MR. FITZSIMMONS: This witness 7

is unqualified. 8


question, Marv. 10

BY MR. ROBON: 11

Q. What is your understanding of the 4 12

million dollar figure in the West Virginia University 13

contract with Rodriguez? Is it a liquidated damages 14

sum, a penalty, or is it an estimate of what damages 15

might be suffered by the University, your opinion? 16

A. My opinion today? 17

Q. Yes. 18

A. As of today? 19

Q. Yes. 20

A. It was a penalty to make sure that 21

Coach Rodriguez did not leave West Virginia. 22

Q. Now, with regard to the promises that 23

were made that you testified a little bit ago by 24

523

Michael Garrison, did Craig Walker also join in those 1

promises, or was he just there? 2

A. No, Craig Walker joined in those 3

promises. I remember he made a statement right 4

afterwards that when the meeting ended, he was going 5

straight over to the Coliseum and sit down with Mike, 6

with Ed Pastilong, and go over those. 7

And Craig and I had extensive 8

conversations in regards to the concept of the promise 9

that was made that they were going to put out on bid 10

the Mountaineer Sports Network, the media rights, and 11

investigate whether or not there were -- ways to 12

increase that revenue. 13

I even supplied Craig a copy of an RFP 14

that I received from Clemson -- 15

Q. What's an RFP? 16

A. It's a request for proposal that's put 17

out by a school. And so Craig and I had 18

conversations; I offered Craig, in July and August, 19

help on that; he said he would appreciate it. 20

So I went by the associate athletic 21

director's office at Clemson. He gave me a copy of 22

the RFP, and I gave Craig a copy of the RFP, I believe 23

at the August 24th meeting. He was very thankful of 24

524

it. That was after the meeting. 1

During the meeting, we had discussions 2

about that. I remember Craig Walker and Mike Garrison 3

referring to the Mountaineer Sports Network as "Mike's 4

stupid network." 5

And I asked, What does that mean; and 6

they said it was always a joke around Morgantown that 7

MSN was Mike Parsons' baby and everyone joked and 8

called it "Mike's stupid network." 9

I remember I had follow-on conversation 10

later in the day around 5:00 or 6:00 when I was back 11

over there and Mike Garrison was there, and we had a 12

conversation in the parking lot. 13

Mike Garrison told me how interested he 14

was in this, thanked me for my help, and he even asked 15

me in the parking lot if they did award a contract to 16

somebody outside of the -- or they did put out an RFP 17

and somebody won and it was outsourced, was there a 18

way that company could hire Mike Parsons. 19

And I told Mike Garrison, Yes, I've known 20

of instances before when a University has put out -- 21

has outsourced their media marketing rights where the 22

company winning it had gone in and hired people from 23

the University.24

525

MR. ROBON: Let's go off camera 1

and we'll change the tape. 2






BY MR. ROBON: 8

Q. Mr. Brown, in your representation of 9

Coach Rodriguez since, what, 2005, have you done 10

anything that you believe no other agent would have 11

done? 12

A. No. 13

Q. Okay. Tell us about President Garrison. 14

Is he a very convincing person? How does he come 15

across? 16

A. He's very convincing. 17

Q. Looking back 10 months ago, nine to 10 18

months ago when the promises were made that you heard 19

on the 24th of August 2007, did those promises turn 20

out to be falsehoods, in your opinion? 21

A. They did. 22

Q. And was it more than one falsehood? 23

A. There were multiple falsehoods.24

526

Q. A comment was made by opposing counsel 1

that -- when you contacted Bill Martin on December 11 2

of 2007, was Rich Rodriguez aware of your phone call? 3

A. At the time I placed the call, he was 4

not. 5

Q. And we touched on Calvin Magee, you're 6

representing him. How has Calvin Magee been somehow 7

interwind -- intertwined in this litigation? Is that 8

because of the comments with Larry Aschebrook? 9

A. Yes. Larry Aschebrook made a -- Larry 10

Aschebrook filled out an affidavit saying or stating 11

that the only reason that Coach had -- that Coach 12

had -- that Coach Magee had filed this was to help 13

Rich in his lawsuit, and so I was aware of that. 14

And then I was aware of the -- of how 15

that was a false statement for two reasons: Number 16

one is Calvin Magee made the -- had told me about the 17

incident with Ed Pastilong, and then the incident with 18

Larry Aschebrook prior to Christmas. 19

I had already contacted and told Chuck 20

Finder about it, and had already made arrangements for 21

him to interview -- for him to interview -- to 22

interview Calvin Magee out in Phoenix, that -- while 23

they were out there for the Fiesta Bowl, so that was 24

527

prior to the lawsuit being filed. 1

So for Larry Aschebrook to say that there 2

was -- that this was made up to help Rich in his 3

lawsuit was incorrect. 4

And then also, too, Greg Frye gave me a 5

copy of a statement in an e-mail he sent back to 6

Jennifer McIntosh as to his recollection -- as to his 7

recollection in regards to -- his recollection in 8

regards to what he witnessed that day. And I believe 9

I did bring a copy of a -- a copy of the -- a copy of 10

the -- a copy of the statement by Greg Frye today. 11

Q. By Greg -- 12

A. By Greg Frye. 13

Q. Okay. And explain again, Greg Frye is 14

how involved with Magee and Aschebrook? 15

A. He is involved with Magee and 16

Aschebrook -- say it again. 17

Greg Frye was a witness to the comment 18

made by Greg Frye and -- 19

Q. Greg Frye is a witness to what comment? 20

A. He was a witness to the comment made by 21

Larry Aschebrook to Calvin Magee where Calvin and he 22

were talking about Calvin's potential of getting the 23

job. And Calvin pointed to the color his skin -- I 24

528

mean, Larry pointed to the color of his skin, his 1

wrist, and he said something in regards to, Calvin, 2

you won't be a candidate because the donor base won't 3

go for it. 4

Q. And in the request for production that 5

was provided by West Virginia University, did you go 6

through a number of the phone logs? 7

A. I did. 8

Q. And did you find that there were a number 9

of calls to the Governor's office by some personnel 10

from West Virginia University? 11

A. I found that Ed Pastilong placed calls to 12

the Governor's office. 13

Q. Do you believe that the Governor's office 14

is controlling the athletic department at West 15


MR. FITZSIMMONS: Objection. 17

Totally irrelevant. 18

MR. WAKEFIELD: It's 19

speculation. This man's opinions are 20

irrelevant. 21

THE WITNESS: I do believe 22

that. 23

BY MR. ROBON: 24

529

Q. Can you tell the jury why you believe it? 1

A. There's many reasons. Number one -- 2

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Same 3

objection. 4

THE WITNESS: -- I go back to a 5

conversation I had with Bob Robinson I 6

had in November of '07 -- 7

BY MR. ROBON: 8

Q. November of '07, okay? 9

A. In November of '07 where, you know, Bob 10

explained to me that as far as the dynamics at West 11

Virginia, that Eddie had been able to get the Governor 12

on his side, that Eddie was upset that -- 13

Q. Eddie Pastilong? 14

A. Eddie Pastilong was upset that 15

Mike Garrison and Craig Walker were telling him how to 16

run his athletic department. And I was informed at 17

that time that the turf battle had been lost 18

temporarily, that Mike and Craig were going to have to 19

wait and work out a long-term way to get -- to remove 20

Eddie, and that for now, Eddie, with the Governor's 21

assistance, was able to win the turf battle with 22

Mike Garrison and Craig Walker at the time. 23

Q. And who do you believe the successor of 24

530

Eddie Pastilong is going to be? 1


Objection. Irrelevant, speculative, 3

waste of time. 4

THE WITNESS: In previous 5

discussions, a lot of people in West 6

Virginia thought that Craig Walker was 7

going to succeed Ed Pastilong. 8

MR. ROBON: I don't believe I 9

have any further. 10

THE WITNESS: I want to go back 11

to the Governor's involvement. 12

MR. ROBON: Oh, the Governor, 13

yeah. 14

MR. WAKEFIELD: Again -- 15

THE WITNESS: The -- 16

MR. WAKEFIELD: Hey, hey. He's 17

not allowed to just sit here and give 18

speeches. 19

MR. ROBON: Did you -- well, he 20

didn't answer. I cut him off. I'm 21

sorry. I asked him about the phone 22

calls. 23

BY MR. ROBON: 24

531

Q. Tell me about the Governor's involvement. 1

A. There was an interesting situation on the 2

phone log, on the Friday night, December the 14th, 3

that Ed Pastilong placed a phone call to 4

Rich Rodriguez, at 11:45 p.m. I found it kind of 5

ironic, the two phone calls that he made prior to that 6

phone call were two separate calls to the Governor 7

that totalled, I believe, 32 minutes. And so that 8

raises my suspicion that, you know, the Governor plays 9

a big role in what goes on in the athletic department. 10

Q. Okay. And what day was that? 11

A. That was on -- those phone calls were 12

made on Friday, December the 14th. 13

Q. Okay. 14

A. And they have copies of the phone logs 15

there. 16

MR. ROBON: No further 17

questions. 18


Brown, I do have a few more follow-ups 20

here. 21

- - - 22

RE-EXAMINATION 23


532

Q. I see you actually have your own kind of 1

legal file for this case, too, that you've broken down 2

into Leadership, Damages, Governor -- 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

Q. -- Pressure. 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. You had one, Pressure and Promises? 7


Q. Is that right? 9

A. Yeah. 10

Q. Are these documents you pulled, and 11

subfiles that you then started for your own kind of 12

legal file for this case also? 13

A. No. That's the way I did -- I did that 14

on -- when did I do that? Today is Friday. 15

I did that either on Wednesday and 16

Thursday prior to coming up here. 17

Q. So you put together your own little legal 18

file for this case, then, right? 19

A. I put together documents -- 20


A. -- and brought them with me in case, you 22

know, as I was giving answers, I needed to refer to 23

them.24

533

MR. FITZSIMMONS: What was your 1

last exhibit, Mr. Robon? Was that 61? 2

MR. ROBON: 61, yes. 3




Q. This is a letter that was in one of your 7

files. It's dated April 24th, 2007, from Tom Dorer to 8

you. And I see that there are writings on the right 9

side and left side here -- 10

A. Can I see the document? 11

Q. Yeah. I'll show it to you here in a 12

second. 13

A. What date was that, April 24th? 14

Q. April 24th. 15

A. That's your exhibit Brown 15? 16

Q. It is, without your handwriting on it? 17


Q. I see here that on the right side of the 19

third page at the top, that top entry, you have 20

something about, That's their argument -- after Term 21

sheet being a legal document, you have a comment on 22

that, and then you say something about -- something 23

about their argument in the first upper right-hand 24

534

side. 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. Would you read that into the record what 3

you said, your handwriting, next to the typewritten 4

portion of that. 5

A. Term sheet not -- these were just notes 6

that I -- 7

Q. Just read it into the record. 8

A. "Term sheet not a legal document for our 9

argument, they say it is, so if they do not meet 10

dates, 'show cause'." 11

Q. That's kind of legal language there 12

you're participating in? 13

A. I was just looking at and making notes to 14

myself in regards to this. In regards to this, one of 15

the things that when you do a contract -- and I've 16

talked to many athletic directors about this, you want 17

to be very selective as to -- you don't want to leave 18

it open-ended. 19

If a school is going to make a commitment 20

on facilities, you don't want to leave it open-ended, 21

you want to have it so that at point in time that is 22

completed. 23

Q. May I see the document again? 24

535

A. Yes. 1

Q. So these notes that you took are things, 2

statements that you made, and your beliefs at that 3

time; is that what you're saying in '07? 4

A. No. Those were notes that I wanted to 5

make to myself just to remind myself to go back and -- 6

Q. When? 7

A. Right when I got the letter. 8

Q. Important things, notes to jog your mind 9

as to what you should do and what you shouldn't do, 10

right? 11

A. Yeah. 12

Q. Okay. 13

A. And, of course, like I told you earlier, 14

after I got that letter written -- 15

Q. Just answer the question. We got just a 16

little bit of a time. 17

A. Uh-huh. 18

Q. The girl who is just like your sister, 19

Pamela, is it? 20

A. Jennifer. 21

Q. Will you get us her address? You said 22

you had that at your house. 23

A. Yeah, I'll get that to you. 24

536

Q. Will you provide that within seven days 1

to counsel so we can have her address and phone 2

number? Will you do that? 3

A. I'll be glad to do that. 4

Q. All right. Have you made any tape 5

recordings of any meetings, conversations, or anything 6

else that has been verbalized at all? 7

A. In this room, in this meeting today? 8

Q. Not today. Any time in reference to 9

Rodriguez or anything dealing with West Virginia 10

University? 11

A. Yeah. I did record two phone calls. 12

Q. Whose were those? 13

A. Those were Larry Aschebrook's. 14

Q. When did you return -- take those phone 15

calls? 16

A. In April of '08, this year. 17

Q. Did you call and give Mr. Aschebrook a 18

description that would have referred to a job that you 19

were trying to get him? 20

A. Pardon me? Say it again. 21

Q. Did you call Mr. Aschebrook at any time 22

and give him a message, either directly or through any 23

message system, that indicated you were going to give 24

537

him a description, I guess I've heard that term used, 1

a job description? 2

A. He had -- he had -- 3

Q. Did you do that? 4

A. I told him I was trying to get time to 5

work a job description up for him, but it was going to 6

be dependent on me having to talk with other people. 7

Q. And that was from the University of 8

Michigan; is that right? 9

A. Yes. 10

Q. And you expressed that to Mr. Aschebrook? 11


Q. Do you have any hiring authority at 13

Michigan to be writing up job descriptions for people 14

and indicating there may be a job description, that 15

you can get them a job at Michigan -- the University 16

of Michigan? Do you have any authority? 17

A. No, I don't have that authority. 18

Mr. Aschebrook -- 19

Q. Did Coach -- 20

MR. ROBON: Let him finish his 21

answer. 22


just asked him if he had that authority. 24

538

That's a yes or a no. 1

THE WITNESS: No. 2


Q. All right. Did Rodriguez indicate to you 4

that he had enough authority that he could get a job 5

for Aschebrook, that you could convey a job 6

description for him? 7

A. I never had a discussion with Rich. 8

After a certain period of time, that was discussed on 9

December the 18th where Larry Aschebrook, in front of 10

a bunch of witnesses, asked Coach Rodriguez if he 11

could help him get a job at Michigan and get out of 12

West Virginia. 13

Q. What's on these recordings that you have 14

with Aschebrook? 15

A. It's conversations in regards to his 16

meetings with Jennifer McIntosh, and then also -- 17

Q. Is that the investigation concerning 18

the -- 19

A. Yeah. 20

Q. You asked him about what had gone on in 21

that? 22

A. Yeah, and then also -- 23

Q. Why would you be asking Mr. Aschebrook 24

539

those questions? 1

A. Because I had had some follow-up -- I had 2

a follow-up conversation with Jennifer, and also, too, 3

it was at a time after he had already put out an 4

affidavit that had a lot of falsehoods in it. 5

Q. And so that -- did you advise him you 6

were recording that conversation? 7

A. No, I did not. 8

Q. Do you know if -- where he was located at 9

the time you made that call and tape-recorded him? 10

A. Say it again. 11

Q. Do you know where he was when you 12

tape-recorded him? 13

A. There was one call where he was in his 14

office, and there was one call when he was playing 15

golf, he told me. 16

Q. In his office -- 17

A. At West Virginia. 18

Q. At West Virginia? 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. And the other time he was playing golf in 21

West Virginia? 22


Q. Do you know if both parties have to 24

540

consent to a tape-recorded conversation in West 1

Virginia, or whether or not that's a violation of 2

State law? 3

A. It only takes one party knowledge in both 4

Georgia and West Virginia. 5

Q. So you checked that out for 6

tape-recording purposes? 7

A. I did. 8

Q. Is that something you do frequently is 9

tape-record people? 10

A. No, I don't. 11

Q. No. So this conversation, then, what did 12

you do, just kind of debrief him as to what he had 13

talked to the investigators about? 14

A. I just wanted to -- because I knew that 15

the statement that he made to Jennifer McIntosh in 16

that affidavit was false based on even previous stuff 17

he had told me, based on the witness, based on what 18

Calvin said, so I just wanted to have a discussion; 19

and then also have -- and then also talk to him in 20

regards to how his family was doing, et cetera. 21

Q. Do you believe that on the tape recording 22

that you got him to admit that he did -- said 23

something false?24

541

A. No. 1

Q. He denied everything, didn't he, that you 2

alleged -- 3

A. I didn't allege anything. He said he -- 4

he said he went in, I remember, and he had a 5

conversation with Jennifer that he -- 6

Q. I didn't ask you what all he said. All 7

right. 8

A. And he did continue to ask me at that 9

time to help him get out of there, can I help him -- 10

Q. Did you offer him a job, or that you 11

would try to get him a job with the University of 12

Michigan? 13

A. I told him I would help him. 14

Q. Now, as I understand, you just became 15

newfound friends of Michigan as of December the 11th, 16

that was the first time you ever called anybody up 17

there? 18


Q. You didn't know anybody else from 20

administration for purposes of employing other 21

individuals, did you, other than Mr. Martin, and you 22

met Ms. Coleman, I guess, on one -- 23

A. What, by the time I was having those 24

542

conversations? 1

Q. Yes, sir. Had you worked your way into 2

Michigan that you had some clout to get people jobs up 3

there? 4

A. No. 5

Q. You don't have any objection to providing 6

us with the actual copies? Can you make copies of the 7

recordings? 8

A. I have no problem of that. 9

Q. You can provide that to us within seven 10

days? 11

A. I'll be -- 12

Q. We'll pay whatever the -- 13

A. I'll be glad to. 14

Q. The two conversations. 15

A. Uh-huh. 16

Q. Any other tape recordings that you've 17

made of people? 18

A. No. 19

Q. I guess I should ask you, any 20

surveillance that you conducted? 21

A. No. 22

Q. Did you do any investigative work? 23

A. No, no.24

543

Q. All right. Bob Robinson, is that the Bob 1

Robinson that has a car dealership in Wheeling? 2


Q. And Denver Huggins? 4

A. No, Denver Allen. 5

Q. I'm sorry. 6

A. He's a fundraiser at the University of 7

Charleston. 8

Q. Did I hear your testimony correct that 9

your opinion is that West Virginia made out by 3 or 4 10

million dollars by Rodriguez leaving, they profited by 11

3 or 4 million, based on your calculations; is that -- 12

is that your position? 13

A. My position is that the athletic 14

department is going to be 3 to 4 million dollars -- 15

Q. Ahead? 16

A. -- ahead next year, regardless of whether 17

Coach left or not. But based on things that have 18

transpired, I've even made the statement that -- 19

Q. Better off -- West Virginia's better off 20

without Rodriguez there. 21

A. Well, the way -- 22

Q. Right? 23

A. Yeah, the way the Governor and Mike --24

544

Q. Is that a yes? 1

A. Yes. The way that the Governor and 2

Mike Garrison flamed the fan base, I'm sure it didn't 3

help with donations coming in. 4

Q. These documents that you've put together, 5

59 and 60 and 61, the Clemson documents and stuff, 6

those are all things that you had been advocating to 7

West Virginia in running their athletic program or 8

football program in '07 and even before that; isn't 9

that true? 10

A. Pardon me? 11

Q. Those documents that were introduced into 12

evidence that Mr. Robon marked that you brought here, 13

the Clemson documents, those are things you talked to 14

Mr. Walker about and tried to get West Virginia to 15

change their athletic program to those extents; is 16

that right? 17

A. Craig and I had conversations -- 18

Q. Is that a yes? 19

A. Yes, with Craig Walker. 20

Q. Okay. So you were helping to try to run 21

West Virginia's athletic program? 22

A. No. I was trying to give them ideas the 23

increase revenues so the whole program could be better 24

545

off, and Craig Walker and Mike Garrison agreed with 1

me. 2

Q. Do you hold yourself out as an expert in 3

running the entire financial operation of an athletic 4

program at a major university like West Virginia? Do 5

you hold yourself out as an expert in that field also? 6

A. I have pretty detailed knowledge of the 7

way college athletic programs operate. 8

Q. So is that yes? 9

A. Yes. 10

Q. Okay. So you -- you serve -- provide 11

those services, consulting service to all the major -- 12

any of the major universities on how these 13

universities can -- 14

A. No. 15

Q. -- go out and make money -- 16

A. I've never been asked to. 17

Q. Nobody's ever asked you to do that? 18

A. No. 19

Q. Have you ever even worked at an athletic 20

program so far as running it in any way, fashion, even 21

as an associate director or assistant director, or 22

even the bottom person within an athletic department? 23

A. Yes, at the University of Florida. 24

546

Q. And what did you do there for two years, 1

was it? 2

A. I was a graduate assistant, ran the 3

athletic dorm, was a -- 4

Q. You ran a dorm. 5

A. Ran the -- assistant -- ran the -- was 6

the assistant academic counselor, and also helped with 7

some on-the-field duties. 8

Q. So you feel you're very well qualified to 9

advise entire athletic programs on how to run their 10

program and make money, these universities, is that 11

true, based on two years running a dorm and -- 12

A. No, no. 13

Q. -- I think, what else did you -- 14

A. No, because -- because over the course 15

of -- since 1979, '80 or '81, I have many friends that 16

Went on to become athletic directors, associate 17

athletic directors -- 18

Q. I'm not interested in your friends, 19

Mr. Brown, believe me. 20

A. I had lots of contact and interaction 21

over a 20-some-year period in regards to college 22

athletics, and still today I have assistant ADs and 23

athletic directors call me, we have discussions, and 24

547

they seek my advice on things. 1

Q. Do we now have at Michigan the consulting 2

advice of Mike Brown, that you're helping to run their 3

athletic programs and make suggestions on how they can 4

make money? 5


answer. 7

THE WITNESS: Yes. 8


Q. Are you being paid for that consulting 10

service to help Mr. Martin and the athletic program up 11

at Michigan make money and do a much better job for 12

their school? 13

A. No. 14

Q. You do that free, gratis; is that right? 15

A. Yes. And they solicited my help in 16

certain areas, and asked me to help them out. In 17

fact, that's where I was yesterday. 18

Q. All right. Now I heard you answer as to 19

this clause, liquidated damage, you consider -- it 20

calls itself liquidated damage, and you saw in the 21

actual agreement it says this shall be in order to 22

replace damages in the actual second agreement. 23

A. Uh-huh.24

548

Q. You saw that in the -- 1



Q. You saw it in the first agreement, too, 4

didn't you? 5

MR. ROBON: Let me make -- let 6

me make my objection. 7

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: What, 8

you got an objection to form or what? 9

MR. ROBON: Because you're 10

misleading the witness. At one place, 11

the second addendum it says penalty -- 12

MR. FITZSIMMONS: Do you want to 13

testify, Mr. Robon? 14

MR. ROBON: No, I just want you 15

to clarify the record. 16

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: In 17

one what, did you say? 18

MR. ROBON: In one place it 19

talks about penalty. 20


what? 22

MR. ROBON: In the second 23

addendum. 24

549


the second amendment? 2

MR. ROBON: Yeah. 3


Q. Who pointed that out to you, was that 5

Mr. Robon the other day? 6

A. No. I had -- I had recognized that back 7

in December when I was going through and reviewing all 8

the documents. 9

Q. You know, Mr. Brown, for as many letters 10

and e-mails as you've written, probably a hundred in 11

this case, you never used the word "penalty" one time. 12

Did you know that? Has that been pointed out to you 13

by the attorneys? 14

A. No. 15

Q. Not once? 16

A. No. 17

Q. You realize that in going through 18

meticulously you've never used that word once, ever? 19

A. What, "penalty"? 20

Q. Yes, sir. You understand that, don't 21

you? 22


Q. And now all of a sudden today, you said 24

550

as of today, you consider that a penalty; is that 1

right? Is that what you testified to a minute ago? 2

A. No. I -- I actually considered it a 3

penalty when I advised Rich Rodriguez -- 4

Q. I asked you what you testified to today? 5

A. Yes. 6

Q. Okay. 7

A. Uh-huh. 8

Q. Have you told Michigan that you believe 9

that's a penalty? 10



Q. Their clause? 13

A. Michigan? 14

Q. Yeah. 15

A. No. 16

Q. Why not? 17


THE WITNESS: Okay. Do you want 19

me to answer? 20

MR. ROBON: You can answer, 21

sure. 22

THE WITNESS: Why haven't I? 23


551

Q. Yes. 1

A. Because at Michigan I know and 2

Coach Rodriguez feels that they're going to live up to 3

all the promises that they made in writing, and it's 4

in writing, they put in writing that stuff that West 5

Virginia was not willing to put in, and based on that, 6

I don't see it as a -- that it's ever going to come 7

into play. And -- 8

Q. Why haven't you told them? 9

A. What? 10

Q. Why haven't you told them it's your 11

opinion today that that clause is a penalty? 12

A. It's not a penalty in Rich's -- in Rich's 13

situation. 14

Q. It's not in Michigan, but you say it is 15

in West Virginia; is that right? 16

A. It was at West Virginia. 17

Q. All right. Now, as to the exhibit that 18

you have there before you -- 19

A. Uh-huh. 20

Q. -- could you open that to -- let me see 21

here. 22

A. Uh-huh. 23

Q. One last thing I want you to read. To 24

552

the right-hand side of paragraph 2 in the letter that 1

you have handwritten, your own handwriting -- is that 2

your handwriting -- 3

A. It is. 4

Q. -- the bottom right-hand side? 5

A. Uh-huh. 6

Q. Would you read into the record what you 7

have written there? 8

A. Yeah. This correspondence -- 9

Q. The last entry. 10

A. The same holds true -- 11

Q. The last entry that you have handwritten? 12

A. Right there? 13

Q. Where it says "why", "why I make 14

everything in writing." 15

A. "Why I make everything in writing"? 16

Q. Yeah, would you read that in? What have 17

you handwritten on this letter, April 24, 2007? 18

A. Oh, "Why I make everything in writing." 19

Q. And the "I" is you? 20


Q. The agent of Rich Rodriguez? 22

A. That's right. 23

Q. Talking about, at that time, April of 24

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'07, is it? 1

A. Uh-huh. 2

Q. April 24th, '07? 3

A. Uh-huh. 4

MR. WAKEFIELD: You got to say 5

yes or no. 6


Q. Is that a yes? 8

A. Yes. 9

Q. Talking about the passing back and forth 10

of the second amendment, is that right, which you were 11

doing at that time? 12

A. Yes, at that time. 13

Q. Commenting and making notes for yourself 14

as to -- 15

A. Uh-huh. 16

Q. -- certain things; is that correct? 17


Q. All right. So you certainly understand 19

the significance of putting things in writing, 20

especially when dealing with contracts, don't you; is 21

that true? 22

A. I recognize a need to put them in 23

writing, especially when I was dealing with the people 24

554

at West Virginia. 1

Q. You knew that clear back in April, which 2

is four months before August 24th, '07, when this was 3

signed; is that correct? 4


MR. FITZSIMMONS: All right. 6

MR. WAKEFIELD: Any other 7

questions? 8


Brown, you have a nice evening. 10

THE WITNESS: You all have a 11

nice trip back. 12

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Can 13

we make copies of your file also? 14

THE WITNESS: I will make copies 15

and forward it to you. 16

MR. ROBON: Make copies for me 17

also. 18

MR. ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS: Could 19

you put a little sticker on, just as to 20

what your heading was for us so we have 21

it. 22

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This 23

concludes the videotaped deposition. The 24

555

time now is 7:55 p.m. 1

(Deposition concluded and 2

witness excused at 7:55 p.m.) 3

(Signature reserved.) 4

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556

SIGNATURE PAGE 1

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Date of Deposition: May 5, 2008

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Correction page(s) enclosed? Yes___ No___

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How many correction pages?____________________

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______________________________________ 6

MICHAEL L. BROWN Date

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Please return this signed signature page along with 17

correction page(s) to:

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COLLINS REPORTING SERVICE, INC.

405 North Huron Street 19

Toledo, Ohio 43604

(419) 255-1010 20

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Worksheet No. CS08-2982 23

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557

C E R T I F I C A T E 1

2

I, Casey G. Schreiner, a Notary Public in 3

and for the State of Ohio, duly commissioned and 4

qualified, do hereby certify that the within-named 5

witness was by me first duly sworn to tell the truth, 6

the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the 7

cause aforesaid; that the testimony then given was by 8

me reduced to stenotype in the presence of said 9

witness and afterwards transcribed; that the foregoing 10

is a true and correct transcription of the testimony 11

so given as aforesaid. 12

I do further certify that this deposition was 13

taken at the time and place in the foregoing caption 14

specified. 15

I do further certify that I am not a 16

relative, employee of or attorney for any of the 17

parties in this action; that I am not a relative or 18

employee of an attorney of any of the parties in this 19

action; that I am not financially interested in this 20

action, nor am I or the court reporting firm with 21

which I am affiliated under a contract as defined in 22

the applicable civil rule. 23

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558

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 1

hand and affixed my seal of office at Toledo, Ohio on 2

this 23rd day of May, 2008. 3

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__________________________________

CASEY G. SCHREINER 6

Notary Public

in and for the State of Ohio 7

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My Commission expires December 8, 2011.

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1 in the circuit court of monongalia county 2...

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