175- when natural doesn’t mean safe- creating non-toxic ... · i prioritize organic sheets and...

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Episode175:WhenNaturalDoesn’tMeanSafe-CreatingNon-ToxicHomesWithGreenDesign

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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubySolOrganix.Thesearesomeofmyfavoritesheetsintheworld,andhere'swhy.Wespendaboutathirdofourlifesleeping,sooursleepenvironmentisareallybigdeal.AndthatiswhyIprioritizeorganicsheetsandbedding,andorganicpajamasformykidsbecausesometypesofbeddingcancontainplasticfibersandevenpesticideresiduefromnon-organicnaturalfibers.ButSolOrganixuses100%fairtradeorganiccottontomakesupersoft,luxurioussheetsatanaffordableprice.Theyalsodonate$7.50tocharitywitheverypurchasemadeontheirsite.Andrightnow,they'reofferingaspecialdealjustforlistenersofthispodcast.Youcanget20%offyourpurchaseplusfreeshippingintheU.S.byusingthecodewellness20,alllowercase,wellness20atsolorganix.com/wellnessmama.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyKettleandFire.Youmayalreadyknow,thatthisismygo-tobonebrothbecauseitisshelfstable,it’seasytouseandit’sdelicious.ButyoumaynotknowthatKettleandFirejustreleasedbrandnewbone-brothbasedsoups,whichmakeitevenmoreconvenienttoeathealthyonthegoplustheysavealotoftimewhenyou’retryingtofeedthewholefamilyonabusynightandtheyaredelicious.Theyhavemiso,tomatoandbutternutandtheyareallreally,reallygood.Plus,theyhavea20-hourslowsimmerprocessfortheirbroththatextractsinsaneamountsofprotein,10gperserving.Andthiscreatesacollagen-richbroththatisgreatforhair,skin,andnails.MyfavoritepartisthatitonlytakesaminutetoheatupanyofthesebrothsorsoupsonthestoveandIcankeepacaseinmypantrysoit’sthereanytimeIneedit.Rightnow,youcansave10%bygoingtokettleandfire.com/mamaandthediscountisalreadybuiltin.Sojustrememberthatlink-kettleandfire.com/mama

Katie:Helloandwelcometothe"HealthyMomsPodcast."I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.comandthisepisodeisgoingtobeallaboutnaturalhomesandhowtochoosetherightmaterialsandsuppliesifyouevermodel,update,build,ordoanythingwithyourhome.BecauseIamherewithAndrewPace,who’sthefounderofGreenDesignCenterandheisawell-knownbuildingmaterialsexpert.He'saboardmemberoftheInstituteforBuildingEcology,hostofthe"Non-ToxicEnvironments"podcastandwellrenownexpertonhealthyhomes.HeservedontheGreenBuildingCouncil,beenamaterialsconsultantfornumerouslead,NAHB,HealthyChildHealthyWorld,andGreenBuiltHomesprojects.Andin2008,helaunchedDegreeofGreen,whichisagreenbuildingproductratingsystemthat'sbeingusedbyretailersandmanufacturerstoeducateconsumersandeliminateconfusionbecausethere'ssomuchgreenwashingthatgoesoninthisindustry.He'scurrentlydevelopingprotocolsfortheirFRATmethod,theFormaldehydeReleaseAttenuationTestwhichwillallowIAQprofessionalstopinpointtheexactsurfacesinahomethatarereleasingdangerouslevelsofformaldehyde.Needlesstosay,he'sdefinitelyanexpertandI'msoexcitedtochat.Welcome,Andrew,andthanksforbeinghere.Andy:Hi,Katie.It'sapleasureandhonortobeinyourprogram.Thankyou.Katie:Oh,thankyouforyourtimeinbeinghere.AndI'dlovetohearalittlebitaboutyoufirstbecauseIresearchedyourbioandyoustartedwaybackin1992beforemostpeopleevenhadnaturalgreenanythingontheirradar.SoI'mreallycurious,what'syourstoryandwhatdroveyoutogetintothisfieldandtostartyourcompany?Andy:Sure.Sobackin,Istartedworkinginthecommercialconstructionarchitecturalworldbackinthelate


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'80s.Andmyfamilyhasownedamaterialsupplycompanythatdatesbacktothe'30shereinWisconsin.Andafterschool,Istartedworkingforthefamilybusinessandoneofmyfirstbigjobswastobuildupthisproductlinethatwehadthatwasallwater-based,supposedlysafecoatingsandcaulkingmaterials,andsoforth.WearedoingajobinMilwaukeewhereweweresupplyingthecoatingsystemforthisbelowgradeparkingstructureandaboveitwere15or16storeysofcondominiums.Andafterourcrewgotdoneinstallingtheprimercoat,justtheveryfirstcoat,westartedgettingphonecallsfromthehomeownerslivingabovecomplainingofodors,thechemicalfumes.AndwereceivednotonlyaphonecallfromoneofthetenantswhohappentobeaUnitedStateSenator,whichIkindof,youknow,shockedusabit.Butwealsohadthreeofourworkersrushedtothehospitalbecauseofinhalationcomplications.Theycouldn'tbreathebecausethechemicalsfoundinthesewater-basedsupposedlysafecoatingsareactuallycausingbreathingcomplications.Andatthatpoint,weshutthejobdownandkindofwentonasearchnotonlyacrossthecountrytofindhealthierproductsbutkindofasoul-searchingmission.Likewhatarewedoingbypoisoningourcustomers,poisoningourowncontractorsandemployeesjusttoselltheseproducts?Anditsortofdawnedtomethatifwecanactuallyfindhealthier,safer,lesstoxicbuildingmaterialsthattheentireworldwouldbeahealthier,saferplace,andthatwasreallythestartofit.In1992,1993,thewordgreenwasstilljustacolor.Notthewayitisnow,whichisjustnotonlyamovementbutawayoflife.AndsowestartedbeforetheU.S.GreenBuildingCouncilstartedtheirleadprogram.Westartedbeforeanybodyelsereallythoughtofit.Amatteroffact,whenwefirststartedsellingproducts,itwasn'taboutsellinggreenmaterials,itwasaboutsellingcommonsetshealthybuildingmaterialsandthat'showwelaunched.Andtothisday,26yearslaterthat'sallwedo.Katie:That'sawesome,butsoscarythatlikeyourcompany,yourworkershadthatbigofareactionthatquickly,andhowreally,weshouldallprobablybemuchmoreawareofthethingsthatwe'reputtinginourhomes.SoyoumentionedthesystemcalledDegreeofGreen,canyoukindofexplainmoreindepthwhatthatisandwhatitreallymeasures?Andy:Yes.Sotherearedozensof,whatIcall,GreenBuildingratingsystemsandcertificationprogramsthatareusedbymanufacturersallthroughouttheworld.Sowe'refamiliarwithsystemslikeGreenGuardorGreenSeal,andthesecertificationsbasicallywilltellamanufacturerandthusaconsumerthattheseproductsarestamped,approvedtobeusedonaleadproject.It'snot…thosesystemsarenotdesignedtodoanythingmorethanjusttellyou,youcanuseitonacertifiedgreenbuildingprojectandyoudon'thavetogothroughtheadditionalpaperwork.WhattheDegreeofGreenprogramisit'sallbaseduponconsumersandit'sallbaseduponinformation,whetherit'sactual,youknow,scientificandfactualinformationaswellasanecdotalinformation.Homeownersdon'tcarewhetherthisproductismeetingtheGS-11standardforpaintsandcoatingsbecausetheydon'tevenknowwhatthatis.Homeownerscare,"Isthispaintgonnapoisonmykids?"Youknow,"Whenmydoglaysonthiscarpet,isthereapossibilitythatthedogisgonnadevelopcancerwhichishappeningatanexponentialraterightnow?Soweputtogetheradegreeof,whatwecall,degreeofgreentoshowthatthereare27differentreasonswhyyoucancallabuildingproductoraconsumergoodgreen.Butmostmanufacturersdon'tdescribewhytheycallitgreen.Theyjustgiveitastampandtheysayit'sgreenoreco-friendlyandtheyleaveitatthat.


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Weactuallydrilldowntothose27reasonsandwegiveitascoreforthreecategories,humanhealth,environmenthealth,andoverallsustainability.Becausesomecustomers,theydon'tcareifaproductcontainsrecycledcontentorisrecyclable.Tothem,themostimportantaspectis,isthisproducttoxicorsafe?Now,ontheflipsideofthecoin,somecustomersreallydovaluewhattheoverallcarbonfootprintofaproductisorisitrecyclableonceit'spasseditsusefullife?Andsowhatwewantedtodoisgiveconsumersinformationabouttheseproducts,alltheinformationlaidoutthereandyoucandecideforyourselfwhatdoesgreenmeanforyouandhowtheseproductscanfitintoyourproject.Katie:Ilovethatyoubroughtupthatyoulookatboththehumanaspect,thesustainability,andtheenvironmentalsidebecausethat'sonethingI'venoticedinmyownresearchwhenweremodeledorlookingatbuildingahouseinthefuture,there'salotofthingsthatclaimtobeeco-friendlyorprobablyarebutthey'renothumansafe,orthere'salotofthingsthatarenottoxicbuttheyhaveahorribleeffectontheenvironmentandviceversa.So,Ilovethatthat'san…you'rereallyratingbothsopeoplecanfindthingsthatareboth.Ithinkthat'ssoimportantandIdoalotofeducationonmysideaboutthethingswebringintoourhome,thecleaners,thebeautyproducts,thethingsthatwe'reexposedtoeveryday.ButIthinkalotofpeoplemaybeassumethatthehouseitselfmaybeatleastifit'safewyearsoldhasoff-gasandit'ssafe,andnotsomethingreallytoworryabout.SoI'dlovetohearyourtakeonthatasthewholegreenandnaturalmovementhasgottenmoremainstream.Whydoyouthinkit'sstillcriticalforallofustomakethesechangestoourhomesaswell?Andy:Well,I'lltakethatlastpartfirstbecauseIthinkitkindasumsitallup.Thefactofthematteristhatthere'sabout88,000chemicalsthatareusedintheproductionofbuildingproductsandhomegoodstoday.Outofthose88,000chemicalsonlyabout3%haveeverbeentestedbyagovernmentalagencytodeterminewhetherornotthey'reactuallytoxictohumansornot.Sooutofthe80somethousandchemicalsthatareleftwehaveabsolutelynoideawhattheydotothehumanbody.Wedon'tknowoncethesechemicalsstarttocombineintheairtheycreatethistoxicsoupinsideofthehome.What'snowhappeningafterthefact?Andsowedecidedyearsagothatourfocusisgoingtobehumanhealthconcernsfirst.Imean,Ihappentouseaphraseallthetimeandforthosewhoknowme,they'veheardthisprobablytoomanytimes.ButIalwayssay,"Whatgoodissavingtheenvironmentifwe'restillpoisoningallofitsoccupants?"Andsomanufacturersarecomingoutwith"greenmaterials"tomeettheEPAregulationsforouterairpollution,buttheydon'tactuallytellyouthat.TheysaytheseproductsarezeroVOCandairsafeandairfriendly.Butifyouactuallydrilldowntothedetails,you'llfindthattheVOCregulationshavenothingtodowithhumanhealth.Theyhaveeverythingtodowithouterairpollutionandsmog.So,whatwetrytodoandwehaveaccomplishediscreatethis,kindofacuratedgroupofover6,000productsthatyoucanuseinsideofyourhometoactuallybuildorremodelahomeinahealthierway.Andit'snotasifwesaywedon'tcareabouttheoudoorrenvironmentbecausethat'scompletelyfalse.Wedocareaboutit.Butwewannaactuallycareforthehumanoccupantsfirstbecause,tous,humanfriendlyistheultimateenvironmentallyfriendly.Andifyoudoeverythinginyourpowertomakeproductsthatarehealthierfortheoutdoorenvironment,youstillwillpoisontheoccupantsbecausetherearesomanychemicalsthatareusedthatarenotactuallyclassifiedasbeingregulated,therefore,manufacturerscanusethemandnottellyou.Katie:Wow,that's,yeah,reallyastoundingbutthatstillisthecase.Likeevenwithalltheseknowledgeabout,


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youknow,morenaturallivingandtheGreenBuildingMovement,it'samazingthatthat'sstillthestandard.I'dlovetogodeeperonwhat'ssomeofthebiggestoffendersareinmosthomesandhowtheycanbefixedormitigated.I'mguessingbasedonyourbiothatformaldehydeisanoffenderbecauseyougotatestforthat.IknowVOCisawordthatgetsthrownouttherealot.Butwhataresomeofthebiggestoffendersthatactuallymostpeoplearegonnaencounterintheirownhome?Andy:SoIbelievethethreebiggestoffendersyoufindinahomeareVOCs,formaldehyde,andmold.Andthisisfromaproductstandpoint,ofcourse.Imean,wecancertainlygointoelectromagneticfields,whichisprobablyadiscussionforanotherdaybecausethat'squiteadeeptopic.Butthebiggestthatwefindwouldbeyourvolatileorganiccompounds,whichIagree.Someofthemarevery,verydangeroustohumansandwewanttoavoidthemasmuchaspossible.Theproblemis,isthattheEPApaintsallVOCswiththesamebrush.Andifit's,forinstance,inpaintsandcoatingsyearsago,manufacturerswoulduseethyleneglycol,andethyleneglycolisactuallyanti-freezeforyourcar,highlytoxictohumansandpets,andplants.Buttheyuseitinpaintbecauseithelpstokeepthepaintfromdryingoutinthecan.Itactsasamethodtokeepwhat'scalledawetedge,soyoudon'tgetlaplineswhileyou'repainting.Well,weworkwithapaintcompanycalledAFMSafecoatandSafecoatusedpropyleneglycol,whichiskindofaclosecousinchemicallyspeakingatleastinthename,butthechemistryiscompletedifferent.It'scompletelyharmlesstohumans,especiallyinthemethoditwasbeingused.Imean,nobodywoulddrinkpaint,ofcourse,butwhenyouputonyourwallitwouldn'treleaseanythingthatwouldactuallybeabsorbedbythehumanbody.SothatwascompletelytoxinfreewhiletheEPAsays,"Well,they'rebothglycols,therefore,they'rebothVOCs,youcan'tuseeitherofthem,"whichdoesn'tmakealotofsense.Youknow,sotheyhadtoreformulatetheirproductusingnoglycolswhatsoeverandwhileSafecoatusesjustahigherresincontentandmorewater,mostmanufacturerswhomakeazeroVOCpaintactuallyuseacombinationofwhatarecalledunregulatedVOCswhichwillbeammonia,acetone,andbutylacetate.Sothat'swhyIsayVOCsisstillaverydangerousthinginthehome,butyougottobeawareofthetoxicityoftheingredient,notnecessarilywhetherit'saVOCornot.Imean,ifyoupeeltheskinoffofanorange,you'rereleasing850gramsperliterofVOCs.Itdoesn'tmeanit'sdangerous,youknow,itjustmeansthatitcouldevaporateandrisetotheupperatmosphere.SoVOCisnumberone,numbertwoandIthinkisprobablythemostimportant,Ishouldhaveputthemindifferentorder,isformaldehyde.Formaldehydeisusedinsomanybuildingproducts,somanyconsumergoodsthatwewouldn'tevenrecognizebutit'sthere.Andformaldehyde,notonlyforpeoplewithchemicalsensitivitybutforthosewhosufferfromasthma,it'sakeytrigger.Andifwecaneliminateformaldehydeinthehousefromallthesourcesthatitcomesfrom,we'reprobablysolvingaboutthreequartersoftheproblemwiththechemicalenvironmentinsideofmosthomes.Andthenthethirdwouldbemold,andmoldisoneofthosethingswhereeventhoughit'sanaturalproblemitcreatestoxinsthatareverysimilartoVOCsanditcanaffectpeoplewithchemicalsensitivities,allergies,andasthmathesameway.Sothosearethethreeproductsthatwereallytryorthreeissueswetrytodealwith.Weknowthatifwecandealwiththosethreewe'reprettymuchsolvingprobably90%oftheproblemsinsideofahome.Katie:Yeah,that'sagoodruleofthumb.Sowithinthosethreecategories,let'sgodeeperonformaldehyde,becauseyousaidthat'soneofthereallyonethatyou'dfocusonalot.Whataresomeofthemostcommonsourcesinanaveragehomethatsomeonereallyneedstobeawareoforisthereatestforthat?Whatwouldyourecommend?


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Andy:Sure.Soformaldehydecanbefoundinsomeofthemostobscurethingsinsideofthehomeandyouwouldn'tevenrealizeit.SoyoumentionedbeforethatwedoatestingsystemcalledFRAT,theFormaldehydeReleaseAttenuationTest.Andwhatthisdoesisthisactuallypinpointstheexactsurfacesinsideofthehomethat'sreleasingformaldehydeandittestsdowntoonepartperbillion,soatminusculelevels.Butatthatsmalllevelpeoplecanstillhaveareaction,especiallythosethathavedepressedimmunesystems.So,justtogiveanexample,theleadlevel,ifyouarebuildingaleadplatinumproject,intheambientair,theywantyoutohavenogreaterthan17partsperbillionofformaldehydeintheair.Well,insidetheaveragehome,ifyouhavecarpetthatcouldbebetween400and600partsperbillionjustbythecarpetitself.Ifyouhaveoneroominthehousethathasawallpaperborderaroundtheperipheryoftheroom,theadhesivethatyouuseforthatbordercancontainupto4,000partsperbillionofformaldehyde.AndI'veeventestedwoodgluesthataremarketedasbeingnon-toxicwaterbasethatwillreleaseduringthecureandafterthecureover2,000partsperbillionofformaldehyde.Andmostpeopleask,howdoesthathappen?Imean,itdoesn'tlistformaldehydeonthelistofingredients.Andthat'strue.Andsoit'sbeendeterminedthatmanufacturersuse,whatarecalled,formaldehydedonorsorformaldehydeprecursors.Thesearechemicalsthatinaliquidstatethey'rereallyundetectable.Andinaliquidstate,eachingredientmakesuplessthan1%ofthevolumesoitdoesn'thavetobelistedontheMSDS.Butwhenyouputitonthesurfaceanditstartstocure,itactuallycreatesformaldehydeduringthecuringprocess.Soitgetsaroundtheregulations,itgetsaroundalltheMSDSandanygreencertificationbecausetheydon'ttestitinuse.Andthenonceit'sinyourhome,itreleasespotentiallytoxiclevelsofformaldehyde.AndsoourFRATtestisamethodtofindout,topinpointwhatistheexactsurfacethat'sreleasingformaldehyde.Andoncewefindthatexactsurface,wecanremediatethatexactsurfaceinsteadofguttingthehometotrytofindtheproblem.Itmightonlybe,youknow,$400worthofwallpaperboardthatneedstoberemovedorcoatedover.We'vehadsomesituationsbeforewherepeoplethoughtthattheyhadthousandsofsquarefeetofengineeredfloorthattheyhavetoripoutbecausetheythoughtitwastheflooringcausingtheformaldehyde.Itturnsouttobeacoupleofarearugsorsomethingelsecompletelyunrelatedthat'scausingtheproblem.Sothisisreallynotonlyalife-savingsituationbutahugesavingsinthewallet.Katie:Yeah,thatishugetonothavetoguess.Soyoumentionedcarpetandwallpaperbeingsomebigoffenders,aretheresafeversionsofthose?Likearethereanycarpetsthatwouldbeokaythatwouldpassthetest?Arethereanywallpapersthatwouldpassthetest?Andy:Wallpapers,therearesomethatwillpassthetest.There'salotofnaturalwallpapersthataren'ttreatedwithanychemicaldyes,theyjustusevegetabledyes.Andthey'remadeofeitherseagrassorpoundedbark,whichisabsolutelygorgeous,andthenweusejustnon-toxicadhesivestoattachthem.Carpet,yes,there'sacoupleofproductsavailablethatarecompletelynatural.Now,theflipsideisthattheyaremadeofwoolandsomepeopledohavewoolallergies.Itkindofspeakstotheentireissuethatyousetitupwithatthebeginningoftheshowwhichisnaturalbuildingorgreenbuilding.Andwhenwe'readvocatingforhealthyhomes,wealwayshavetorememberthatjustbecausesomethingisnaturaldoesn'tmeanit'sactuallysafe.Soourcustomers,mostofourcustomersworldwidearepeoplewithextremechemicalsensitivitiesandthatmeansthatevenanaturalproduct,whetherit'sanessentialoilorwhetherit'swoolthatcontainslanolin,couldactuallytriggeranallergicreactionsowe'vegottobeverymindfulofthat.So,there'safewrulesthat


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weuse.Justbecausethat'snaturaldoesn'tmeanit'ssafe,youknow,it'soneofthebiggestrules.Andjustbecausesomethingissyntheticor"petroleum-based"doesnotmeanit'sdangerous.Youknow,wefindtheproductsthataretolerablebythosewiththemostextremesensitivitiesandthat'swhatwepromote.So,longstorylonger,yes,therearesomesafecarpetcompaniesoutthere,butyouhavetomakesurethatyoudon'thaveanyallergiesorreactionstothosenaturalingredients.Katie:Thatmakessomuchsense.Actually,inhighschoolIwasanassistantforsomeonewhowaschemicallysensitive,thatwasoneofmysummerjobs.Iwouldrunerrandsforherandjusthelpheraroundthehousebecauseshereallycouldn'tleaveherhousebecauseshewasthatseverelychemicallysensitiveanditreallystruckme,exactlywhatyou'vesaid.Eventhingsthatwerenaturalliketypeproducts,shehadtobecarefulwith,likebeingaroundtoomuchvinegaractuallycouldtriggerheroressentialoilscouldtriggerher.Certainly,anythinglikeshampoos,anyofthat,anditwasreallyinterestingtoseethat,andthatstuckwithme.AndasI'velearnedmoreandmoreaboutnaturallivingI'vealwayskindofkeptthatandrealizingIthinkthat'ssuchanimportantpointyoumadeaswellthateverythingthat'snotnaturalisnecessarilyunsafe.Weendedupgoingwiththemattress,forinstance,thatdoesn'thaveanyharmfulingredients,butithassomeinert,non-naturalingredientsbecauseitmakesitfirmerandit'smorecomfortable,anditholdsupbetter.SoIthinkthat'sgonnabesuchanimportantbalanceaswestarttolikeunderstandmoreaboutthisbuildingandgreenbuilding,andgreenhomesbecauseIfeellike,eventhoughyou'vebeendoingthisfor25years,formanyofusthisisstillinitsinfancyandwe'restilllearning.Ilovethatyou'regoingdeeponthis.Okay.So,youalsomentionedmoldandthat'sascarywordforalotofpeople.Iftheyfoundouttheyhavemold,it's…Iknowsomepeoplehavehadtolikeleavetheirhomesandit'saveryseriousproblem.Aretheretestsforthatandcaniteverberemediated?That'saquestionI'vealwayswondered,ifmoldexist,canitgoaway?Andy:Sotherearetestformoldandtherearetestformoldandtherearetestsformold.So,whatImeanbythatisyoucangotomosthardwarestoresandbuyakit,that'salittletestingstripstotellyouthattherearesporesintheair.Oryoucanhiresomebodywho'sanactualprofessionalandtheywillsetupcollectionpoints.Anddrilldowntowhattheactualactivesporesareandwhetherthey'reharmfulornot.Thethingaboutmoldisthatmoldisintheairallthetime.Moldispartoftheairwebreathe,it'severywhere.So,somepeoplecanhaveallergiesorothersensitivitiestriggeredbymold,butitcomesdowntowhetherornotitisatadangerouslevelornot.Andsowillyoueverhaveahomewithoutmold?No,becausemoldsporeswillbebroughtintothehomeonyourclothesjustfromwalkingoutside.Butifyouhaveaproblemwithmoldwherethesporecountisveryhigh,andyouknow,you'vegotanactivecolonysomewhere,yes,thatcanbeverydangerous.Idorecommendthatforfamiliesthatfindthisproblemthatyoumoveoutofthehousewhiletheyremediatebecausetheycandothebestjobtheycantocloseoffalltheventilationducts,tomaskofftheareassothatthesporesdon'ttravel.Butfirst-handexperienceisthatthat'showIstartedmycompanyyearsagobecausewethoughtwedidalltherightthingtomaskeverythingoffbutthosechemicalsstilltraveled.So,Iwouldalwaysstressthatifit'sanactivesituationinthehome,tomoveout,whetherit'sforacoupleofdaysoraweek,haveitremediated.Andtherearesafethingsthatyoucanusetoremediatemold.Now,itdependsonhowmuchdamagehasbeendonebecauseofitbutifit'ssimplysuperficialandnotstructural,therearesometoxin-freewaysforprofessionalcompaniestogetridofitandkeepitfromcomingbackusingpredominantlynaturalingredients.Andsothat'saproductthatwereallystarteddiggingintodeeplyaboutayearagoandwe'rejustthrilledwithit.


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Katie:That'sreallygoodtoknow.Iliveinareallyhumidclimatenowsothat'ssomethingthat'sdefinitelyonmyradarandIhopeIneverhavetodealwiththat.ButifIdo,I'llbecallingyoutoconsultforsure.Okay.So,alsoyoutalkedaboutVOCsandthatoneIfeellikemostpeoplearefamiliarwith.There'snowtheselikelowVOCpaintsoutthere,although,I'maresearchnerdandfromwhatI'veresearchedthere'spotentiallyotherproblems,evenwithlowornoVOCpaints,includingsomethingcalledSVOCs.Idon'tknowifI'mreadingthatcorrectlyorunderstandingit,butI'dlovetohearmoreaboutthat.AndIfeellikepaintingisaprettycommonhomething,evenifyou'renotgonnadoaremodelingorbuildfromscratch.Peopletendtopaintprettyoften,solet'stalkaboutsafepaintoptionsandwhattolookfor.Andy:Sure,ofcourse.Sopaintingissopopularbecauseit'saveryinexpensiveway,arelativelyinexpensivewaytogivethehomeafreshlook.Andnow,homeownersdon'tliketopaint,Idon'tliketopaint.Youknow,I'vebeensellingpaintfor30years.I'mnotabigfanofdoingitmyselfbecausethere'salotinvolvedinthepreparation,youknow,dropclothsandusingmaskingtapetomakesureyoudon'tgetitonareasyoudon'twantittohaveiton.Andsoyouwannadoitonceandmaybenotdoitagainforanother20years.So,whenitcomestobuyingpaints,youwannabuyitmakesure,Ialwaystellcustomers,"Buythemostexpensivepaintthatyoucanafford."Don'tbuyinexpensivebecauseinthepaintindustry,youdefinitelyget,asidefromafewitemsthatsortofstickout,yougetwhatyoupayfor.Thehigherthepricepergallon,thebetterthequality.Andsoifyoudon'twanttopainteveryfiveorsixyears,buywhat'scalledapremiumqualityresidentialpaintandyouwon'thavetotouchitfor20years.Imean,you'llgetsickofthecolorbeforeiteverwearsofforstartstodustyourchalkoffthewall.RegardingtheVOCideaitself,VOCsforthosewhodon'tknowtheexactdefinition,it'savolatileorganiccompound.It'sacarbon-basedmoleculethat'sreadilyvaporizedatroomtemperaturethatcouldevaporateoffthesurface,traveltotheupperatmosphere,reactwithnitrogenandUVtocreatesmog.That'stheexactEPAdefinitionofit.Nowhereinthatdefinitionthatdoessayanythingabouthumanhealth.It's100%regulatedbecauseofoutdoorairpollutionandsmog.Insideofahome,that'sirrelevantbecausetheydon'thaveahighlevelofnitrogenandwedon'thaveahighlevelofUV.ItistruethatsomeVOCsareverydangerousforhumansbutit'salsotruethatmanyoftheingredientsfoundinlowandzeroVOCpaintsarenotVOCs,theyneverhavebeenVOCs,andthey'restillvery,verytoxictohumans.Sowhattolookforwhenyou'rebuyingpaint?Don'tjustlookfortheVOCcontent,that'sirrelevant.Lookforwhethertheproductistoxinfree,whetherit'sdoctorrecommendedornot.ImeanthesearethetwobigthingsandwhatIgoforisthatanecdotal.I'vegot15,000customersnationwidewhohaveseverechemicalsensitivityand95%ofthemtellme,youknow,theSafecoatbrandthatwesupplyistheonethattheycantoleratethebest.Now,therewillbepeoplewhocan'ttolerateit,therewillbepeoplewhocantolerateotherbrandsandnotSafecoatbecausechemicalsensitivitiesarevery,veryspecialtypeofdisease.Noteverybodyhastheexactsameproblemthatyouallknowthat,Imeanwithchemicalsensitivityyoureacttochemicaloutgassingbutnoteverybodyreactstothesamechemicals,soit'sverydifficulttopinpoint.Butforwhenitcomestorecommendingthesafest,that'swhywestickwiththeSafecoatproductbecauseweknowhistoricallyspeaking,itisthemostrecognizedandgo-tobrandforpeoplewithchemicalsensitivity.Otherbrandsaregoingtobeperfectlygreatproducts.Imean,durabilitywise,longevity,colors,allofthat,fantastic.Buttheydon'tactuallysellhealthierproducts,theyselleco-friendly,andtheeco-friendlyproductscanstillcontainammonia,acetone,Imeanthat'snailpolishremover,highlytoxicbutit'snotclassifiedasaVOC.


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Katie:That'sgoodtoknow.Andasyou'retalkingaboutthat,itmakesmethinkoftheBPAthingwithplasticthatwelikelatchontoBPAbeingaharmfulsubstanceandsoeverybody'slookingforBPA-free.ButothersmaybehavealwaysbeenBPA-freebuthaveBPSorBPF,orsomethingpotentiallyasequallyharmfulormoreso,andyouillustratedthatsowellwithpaints.So,basicallyforsomeonewhodoesn'thaveachemicalsensitivity,theSafecoatbrandwillbefineforanormalhousehold.Andy:Ofcourse.Idobelievethat,youknow,wesupplyallofourproductstobesafeenoughforthosewithextremechemicalsensitivitiesbutbetterforeveryone.Youknow,thefactisthatifthere'ssomanychemicalsthatarefoundintheaveragehome.It'sbeenestimatedthattheaveragenewhomeconstructionthere'sbetween10,000and15,000chemicalsintheairjustfromthebuildingprocessitself.So,ifwecanreducethatchemicalload,it'sbetter.Youknow,apaintedsurfaceisprobably70%ofallthesurfacesthatyou'regonnatouchinsideofyourhome.Andifwecancutthechemicalscomingofffromallthosepaintedsurfacesdowntozero,thatmakesanenormousdifferenceandthat'sgonnahelpanybody.Katie:Absolutely.AndamIunderstandingcorrectly,soforinstance,ifyouhaveaharmfulpaintbut,say,it'swater-basedandyoucanpaintoverit,ifyourepaint,isthatsealingintheharmfulaspectsofthatoriginalcoatinmakingitsafe?Ordoyouneedtolikestripitandredo?Andy:Mostoften,probably95%ofthesituationswegetinvolvedinwheretheyhaveanexistingpaintthat'soff-gassingandjustonthat,mostwater-basedpaintsandcoatings,oncetheyfullycureandthecuringprocessisusuallyaboutuptotwoweeks.Mostwater-basedcoatingsincludingzeroVOCcoatingscanoff-gasforuptofourandahalfyearsaftertheyreachafullcure.Soifinthiscallcomesinonaveryregularbasis,somebodypaintedtheirhomewithXYZbrandofpaintsixmonthsago,theystillcan'tmoveintotheirhouse.AndthenwesendthemenoughmaterialtoputtwocoatsoftheSafecoaton,completelysealsitupandtheycanmoveinnextweek.Andsoyes,thiswilltakecareofthatproblem.Katie:Greattoknow.Soforanyonewhojustisremodelingtheirownhomeormovingintoanewhome,that'sagreatsolution.Thatseemsprettycosteffectivecomparatively.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubySolOrganix.Thesearesomeofmyfavoritesheetsintheworld,andhere'swhy.Wespendaboutathirdofourlifesleeping,sooursleepenvironmentisareallybigdeal.AndthatiswhyIprioritizeorganicsheetsandbedding,andorganicpajamasformykidsbecausesometypesofbeddingcancontainplasticfibersandevenpesticideresiduefromnon-organicnaturalfibers.ButSolOrganixuses100%fairtradeorganiccottontomakesupersoft,luxurioussheetsatanaffordableprice.Theyalsodonate$7.50tocharitywitheverypurchasemadeontheirsite.Andrightnow,they'reofferingaspecialdealjustforlistenersofthispodcast.Youcanget20%offyourpurchaseplusfreeshippingintheU.S.byusingthecodewellness20,alllowercase,wellness20atsolorganix.com/wellnessmama.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyKettleandFire.Youmayalreadyknow,thatthisismygo-tobonebrothbecauseitisshelfstable,it’seasytouseandit’sdelicious.ButyoumaynotknowthatKettleandFirejustreleasedbrandnewbone-brothbasedsoups,whichmakeitevenmoreconvenienttoeathealthyonthegoplustheysavealotoftimewhenyou’retryingtofeedthewholefamilyonabusynightandtheyaredelicious.Theyhavemiso,tomatoandbutternutandtheyareallreally,reallygood.Plus,theyhavea20-hourslowsimmerprocessfortheirbroththatextractsinsaneamountsofprotein,10gperserving.Andthiscreatesa


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collagen-richbroththatisgreatforhair,skin,andnails.MyfavoritepartisthatitonlytakesaminutetoheatupanyofthesebrothsorsoupsonthestoveandIcankeepacaseinmypantrysoit’sthereanytimeIneedit.Rightnow,youcansave10%bygoingtokettleandfire.com/mamaandthediscountisalreadybuiltin.Sojustrememberthatlink-kettleandfire.com/mama

Katie:Okay.Soyou'vealso,I'dlovetotalkaboutflooringalittlebit.Ifeellike,partially,thisisaselfishquestionbecauseI'mabouttotakeonaremodelingproject,butalsothat'sonethattendstogetreplacedrelativelyofteninhomesIfeellikein,whetheritbekitchenflooringorbathroomflooring.AndI'vebeenpersonallyresearchingafewoptionsI'dlovetogetyourtakeon.IlovethelookofnaturalcorkandI'mcuriousifthat'saprettysafeoption.Also,thingslikeporcelaintile,likeoldworldporcelainfromItaly,I'mcuriousifthosearesafejustselfishlyorifthere'sothersaswell.Andy:Sure.Cork.I'vebeensellingcorkflooringforclosetoprobablyover20yearsnow.AndIcansaythatthecorkitselfisgenerallysafe.Now,corkisnothingmorethanthebarkofthecorkoaktreeandmostofitcomesfromSpain,Portugal,andpartsofItaly.Corkhasadistinctivesmelltoitandthisiswhereit'skindoftrickyforpeoplewithchemicalsensitivitybecause,again,justbecauseit'snaturaldoesn'tmeanit'ssafe.Corknaturallycontainsaningredientcalledsuberin.It'sactuallylikethesapincork.Andthat'stheingredient,thenaturalingredientincorkthatnotonlygivesititssmellbutthatmakesitanti-staticandantibacterialbynature.Soit'sareallyhelpfulingredientbuttheproblemisthatifyouhavesensitivities,thatsmellnevergoesaway.Andnomatterhowyoutrytosealitorsomehowremediateit,thatsmellwillnevergoaway.SoifyouhavesensitivitiesI'dbecarefulwiththat.Theotherthingisthatmostcorkthat'susedinhomestodayisa,what'scalled,afloatingfloorsystem,soit'scorklaminatedtoacoreofMDForMediumDensityFiberboard.Andthere'sanadhesiveusedinbetweenthosetwopliesplusthefiberboardmaycontainformaldehyde.Andformaldehydethat'sfoundinfiberboardandplywood,andOSBcanoff-gasforliterallydozensofyears.So,it'sjustthematteroffindingthebrandsthataresafeandhavehaduseinchemicalsensitivefolks'homes,soweknowthatit'sbeentestedandit'sgonnaworkforthem.Porcelain,allthetilesprettymuchmadethesameandnomatterwhatingredientthatgoesintoitinaliquidstate,itgetsfiredatabout2,500degreessoanythingthat'sintherewillbeburnedoff.Theonedownsidetoporcelaintileisthatallporcelainisglazed.They'llputaclearglazeoverthetoptosealit,soitdoesn'tabsorbwaterortogiveitashineorwhathaveyou.Thoseglazedcompoundssometimescancontainlead,anditdependsonwhereit'smade.AndsoalotoftimestheChinese-madematerialswillhaveleadandtheywon'tdiscloseit.EvensomeoftheItaliantilescancontainleadsoI'llrecommendthatyougetasampleofthetilefromthetilestoreandalsobuyaninexpensiveleadswabtestkitfromthehardwarestoreandjustmakesureit'sgonnabesafebecauseyouneverknowwiththatproduct.Beyondthat,alltileisprettymuchthesame,it'sfairlyinert.Therearesomebrandsthatuseahighgradeoftitaniumdioxideintheglazeandwhatthatdoesisitmakesthetileanactiveantibacterialsurface.Andit'scompletelyharmlesstohumansbutitactuallyactivelyhelpstocleantheair.So,Iwouldlookforthatbecausethat'slikethehealthyversionofaveryeco-friendlyproduct.Katie:That'sfascinating.I'lldefinitelybeonthelookoutforthat.AndI'msogladyoubroughtupMDFinplywoodbecauseIthinkmaybethat'sonepeopledon'toftenthinkaboutandfromwhatI'vebeenresearchingandjustinmyownhome,it'ssoprevalent.FromwhatI'veread,itcanbeusedincabinetsandfurniture,and


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prettymuchsomanyusesinthehome.Sohow,onthespectrum,howbadisthatandhowlongdoesthattaketooff-gas?Itseems,likeyoumentioned,itcouldtakeareallylongtime.Andy:Itcan.Andhere'sathingaboutMDFandotherengineeredorman-madewoods.Thereiswhat'scalledNAUFmaterials,thatstandsfor"NoAddedUreaFormaldehyde."Ureaformaldehydeistheversionofformaldehydethat'smostlikelytocauseareaction.Well,there'sanotherversionofformaldehydecalledphenolformaldehyde.AndsomostoftenwhenmanufacturersofplywoodorOSBsay,"Ourproductisformaldehyde-free."They'reactuallyreferringtobeingureaformaldehyde-free,andthatmeanstheyusetheotherversioncalledphenol.Phenolsareabout100timeslesslikelytobecomeairborne,butifyouhavesensitivities,youstillcanreact.Whicheveronetheyuse,I'veseenwood,theseman-madewoodsthat'sover30yearsoldthatstilltestpositivelyforhavingformaldehydeoff-gassing.So,itreallywilloff-gasforthelifespanoftheproductline.Andit'shardtosay,here'sagreatexample.Ifyouhaveplywoodunderneathacarpetedfloorinyourhome,thecarpetsortofactsasabarrier.It'snot100%vaporbarrier,butit'senoughofabarrierthatitslowsdowntherateofevaporationortherateofreleaseofformaldehyde.Whenyoudecidetotakethecarpetoutbecause,youknow,99%ofcarpetishighlytoxicandcanbefor25years,andputinareallygoodhardwoodfloororporcelaintile,oracorkfloor,you'reexposingthatsurfaceagainandsomoreformaldehydewillcomeoutwhileit'sexposed.Andsotherearesealersonthemarket,there'saproductcalledSafeSeal,thatifyouusetwocoatsofSafeSealonthesurface,itwillsealuptheformaldehydegasinbetween98%and100%.Sotherearewaystoremediateit,andthatholdstruewithalotoftheproductsthatwesupply.Themosteffectivewaytocompletelyremoveallthetoxinsistoremovethesourceofthepollutant.Ifyoucan'tremovethesourceofthepollutant,youcansealit.Sealingitisnotaseffectivebutfarmorecosteffective.Katie:Gotit.Andforanyonewhoislisteninganddrivingandwantingtomakeanoteofalltheseproducts,I'mgonnamakeanoteintheshownotesofalloftheonesyou'vementionedandalsoalinktoyourwebsitebecauseyouhavemoreinfoaboutalloftheseonyourwebsite.Also,foranyonelistening,Ishouldhavementionedthisatthebeginning,butAndydoesconsults.Soifyouarebuildingorremodeling,orhavechemicalsensitivities,youcanactuallytalktohisteam.I'llputthatinfointheshownotesaswell.So,okay.Sowe'vementionedthatfurniturecanhaveMDFandformaldehyde,andalltheseissues,isthereanykindofgoodruleofthumbforfindingdecentfurniturethatdoesn'tinvolveasmakingourownwithjustlikenaturallumberandcloth.Doyouhaveanyguidelinesthere?Andy:IkindofchuckledbecauseIhavesomecustomerswhogetsofrustratedwiththeshoppingexperience,especiallyforfurniture,thatthey…that'swhattheysay.I'mjustgonnamakemyown.Ruleofthumb.Iwouldsaythatsolidwoodfurniturewillalwaysbebetterthanengineeredorman-mademanufacturedwoodfurniture.Lookforfurniturethatifitisupholstered,thattheupholsteryorthefabricisorganic,andhopefullyfreeofanyflameretardants.NowIknowinCalifornia,especially,theyhave,youknow,they'vebeeneliminatingflameretardantsbutthey'reactuallyeliminatingjustsomeofthemostwell-knownonesandthey'reallowingmanufacturersthentouseotherunknownflameretardants.Solookfororganicfabricsthatarenottruetoflameretardantsorwithanypesticides.Andhopefully,ifyouarelookingfor,let'ssay,asofaoraloveseatthatyoucanfindamanufacturerthatusesnaturallatexforthecushionsasopposedtosynthetic.Thatwillbealsoalotsafer.Katie:Cool.I'llmakenotesofthoseaswell.Okay.Sowe'vecoveredmostof,Ithink,thebigoffendersina


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home.I'dlovetonowgobroadscopeandjustkindofgetyourideasifyouaregoingtobuildahomefromscratch,likefromthegroundup,whatwouldbe,wherewouldyoustart,wherewouldyouhavesomeonestart?Andwhatmaterialswouldyougothroughevenasfaraslikeinsidethewalls,theexternalsurfacesofthehouse,etc.?Andy:Obviously,averylargesubjectbutletmegiveyou,Iguess,myperfectscenario.Myperfectscenariowouldbetofindapieceofpropertythat…itdoesn'tmattertomewhetherit'sinasubdivisionor,youknow,beingsoldoffaslandfromafarmerbutmakesureit'slandthathasn'tbeenfarmedinalongtime.Youknow,youcanhavepesticidesthatareretainedinthesoilforanywherefrom30to50years.Andtherearebarriersthatyoucanuseinthefoundationtokeepthatfrommigratingin.Afterthat,myfavoriteformofconstructionhonestlyisaproductcalledICForinsulatedconcreteform.Insulatedconcreteformisbasicallywhatitsays.Andinsteadofusingtheconcreteformthatgetsremovedandthenyou'rejustleftwiththeconcretewall,it'saformthatstaysinplace.AndthatformcanbemadefromexpandedpolystyrenewhichIknowsoundshorriblebutit'sactuallyinert.Oritcanbemade,thereareotherversionsmadefromhempandconcretetogether.Whateverthecaseis,whatI'mtryingtodoiscreateawall,anexteriorshellofthishomethatisalmostcompletelywood-free.Andthereasonwhyit'swood-freeisbecausewedon'twantanypossibilityofmold.Andwherethere'swoodisafoodsource.Sowegetridofthefoodsourceofmoldandwhateveryouuseontheoutsideofthehome,trytousesomethat'snotgonnaoff-gasandcometothewindows.Insideofthespace,Iwouldbeusing,Iguess,myownhomeisagreatexampleofthis.Imean,myownhomeis…it'skindanicebeinganownerofabuildingmaterialsupplycompany.Igotthousandsofmaterialsatmydisposal,butIalwaystrytousewhatIsellfirstbeforeIputitontheshowroomfloor.Somyhomeiskindofatestmarket.I'vegotcorkflooring,naturallinoleum,whichIthinkisthebestflooringmaterialforkitchenandbath.I'vegotbambooinsomeareas,whichIknowiscompletelyformaldehyde-free.Ijustinstalledinmylowerlevelavinylplankflooring.Andforthosewhoarereallyintonaturalandgreenbuilding,whenIjustsaidvinylplankflooring,theyprobablyalljustcringedandthoughtthatIjustlostallcredibility.IamseriouswhenItellyouthatitdoesn'thavetobecompletelynaturaltobecompletelysafe.InthisparticularbrandthatIworkwithnowafterI'veusedit,Icantellyouit'stestedzerowithourFRATtesting.Andformaldehydeoff-gassingisabigproblemwithvinyl,it'scalledluxuryvinylplankflooringandsoItestedittobezero,putitintomyownhome.There'svirtuallynosmelltoitwhatsoeveranditcarries,youknow,lengthywarrantiesandit'sextremelyattractive.Somyhomeisthisschmorgas-boardofproductbutit'sallmaterialsthatIwouldrecommendforanybody'shome,anybodywhowantstoliveinahealthyhome.Katie:Gotit.Iwasjusttakingnotestoincludeallofthatintheshownotes.Also,okay,soI'mcurioustogetyourtakeonsecond-hand,forinstance,furnitureormovingintoahousethat'solderversusnewer.Soyou'vementionedthatsomeofthesethingscantakeavery,verylongtimetooff-gasbutistherekindoflikeacurvethere?LikearetheybetterafterXamountoftime?ThereasonIaskisI'verecommended,forinstance,peoplecanusesecond-handnatural-fiberedclothingthat'salreadybeenwashedalotoftimes,that'salsoobviouslymoreenvironmentallyfriendlybecausethey'rereusingbutit'sbeenwashedtogetoutalotofthepesticidesandtheoriginalthingsthatmayhavebeeninit.Isthatthesamewith,forinstance,furniture,likewoodenifthat'slikesomeonereallybudgetconscious,isthatabetteroptionthanlikeanewerfurnitureiftheyhadtochoose?


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Andy:Itdependsonwhatdegreeofgreenthey'retryingtoachieve.Soifthedegreeofgreentotheclientiswewannabuildahomethat'scompletelytoxin-freeoraslittleaspossible,thenI'mgonnatellthemnottouseanythingthat'severbeenusedbefore.Andthereasonforthatisyoudon'tknowhowitwasmaintained.Inthebuildingindustry,rightnowit'sreallyfashionableforpeopletousearusticbarnwoodmaterialtomakeabedroomoradenlooknice.Andwhileitlooksabsolutelygorgeous,well,thatactuallycamefromabarn.Youhavenoideawhatwasheldinsideofthatbarnforthelast150years.Youknow,itcouldbeloadedwithchemical.Butpeopleuseitthinkingthatit'seco-friendly.Anotherversionwouldbepeoplewhomakefurnitureonthepallets.Youknow,palletsarenotonlyfullofpesticidesthemselvesbutifyou'veevertakenapalletoffofasemi-truckandyoulookatallthegreaseandtheoil,andthesolventsthatarespreadalloverthosesemi-truckfloors,you'dneverwantapalletinsideyourhomeagain.Soyou'vegottobeverycarefulaboutthesourceifyou'regoingtobeusinganyrecycledorre-purposedmaterials.Andthesameholdstruethenwith,Ithink,withclothingit'salittlebitbetterbecauseyoucanusecertaintypesoflaundrydetergents,verysafematerialsthatnotonlycleanoutwhatwasalreadyintherebutdon'tleaveresiduesthemselves,sothat'sadifferentstory.Butwhenitcomestobuildingmaterials,I'mvery,veryskepticalofusingreclaimedanythingbecauseyoudon'tknowhowitwasmaintainedandwithwhat.Forthehomeitself,youknow,ahomethatis30yearsoldorolderyoucanbeprettysurethatalmosteverythinginsideofthathomethatwasgoingtooff-gashasalreadyoff-gassed.Thedifficultytherewouldbethereareissuestodealwith.Now,thechemicaloff-gassingmightbedonebutitmaybemorelikelytohavemoldproblemormaybemorelikelytohaveleadorasbestos,orwhathaveyou.Sotherearetrade-offsandthisiswhyweuseourdegreeofgrainsystem.Weactuallyhaveatestthatifyousignuponourwebsitewhichisdegreeofgreen.com,that'sour,wehavetwowebsitesandwecanputthatinthenotes.Butweactuallyhaveatestthatyoucantaketohelpyoudeterminewhatyourownpersonaldegreeofgreenis.Andifyourdegreeofgreenishumanhealth,you'regonnaavoidreclaimedproducts.Ifyourdegreeofgreenissustainability,that'sadifferentstory.You'regonnabeusinganythingyoucanpossiblyfindthatisrecycled,re-purposed,orrenewedbecausehealthisnotyourmainfocus.Moralofthestoryisthereisnosuchthingasaperfecthouse,thereisnosuchthingasaperfectproduct.Nothingwillhitallthreedegreesofgreen100%,it'simpossible.You'regonnadriveyourself,Itellthistocustomersallthetime.Youknow,driveyourselftothepoorhouseofthenuthousetryingtofindperfection,it'snotthere.Youhavetochoosewiselyandchoosewhatmakesthemostsenseforyouandyourfamily.Katie:It'sagoodruleofthumbforsomanyareasoflifeIfeellike,andI'mgonnamakesurethatthere'slinkstoeverythingyoualreadymentionedintheshownotes.AndIknowyousaiditcouldbeawholeanothertopicforawholeanotherpodcastandIthinkweshouldactuallydoaroundtwooneday.ButIdon'twannaletyouoffthehookwithoutatleastaskingalittlebitaboutEMFsbecauseI'mgettingthisquestionsooften.There'ssomuchconflictinginformationandresearchoutthere.Ipersonallyfeellikeit'sgonnabecomeoneofthebigtopicsofourtime.We'rejustkindofonthecuspofthatbutI'dlovetojustgetanoverviewfromyouofwhatyoulookoutwhenitcomestoEMFs,whatyouthinkthebiggestproblemsareandwhatwecandoaboutit?Andy:Yeah,Iagreewithyou,Katie.IthinkthatbetweenformaldehydeandEMFs,that'sgonnabethetwoissuesthatpeoplewillbefocusingonpredominantlyandit'sgonnabeprettysoon,too,becausestudiesarecomingoutabouttheeffectsof,youknow,childrenhavingcellphonesuptotheirearconstantly.Studiesare


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comingoutwith,youknow,effectsofpeoplewholivenotonlyunderneathbuteven,youknow,somewhataroundthesehigh-tensionpowerlines.Itisanenormousproblemandwithcelltowersgoinguponadailybasisallaroundus,it'sveryhardtoavoidunlessyoutakeprecautions.Andsointhenewhomeconstructionit'salittlebiteasier.Youcanbuildthehomeinamannerthatwillblockalotofthesesignalstocomeintothehome.Theproblemisifyoublockthesignaltocomeintothehome,thenlikeacellsignaloraWi-Fisignal,youhavetothenhardwireeverythingifyouwantaccesstotheinternet.You'regonnahavetodoittheoldfashionwayandput,youknow,CAT5Ecablesinthewallandactuallyplugyourdevicesinsoyou'renotreceivinganywireless,butit'sthesafestwaytogo.Inaremodelingsituation,it'salittlemoredifficultbecausenowwehavetotrytofixitwhenit'salreadybeendone.Sotherearedifferentcodingsyoucanusethatcontainhighamountsofcarbonthatwillblockthesignalfromcomingintothehome.Therearemetersyoucanuseforsealingupthesmartmeterssothatthatradiationdoesn'tgetintothehome.So,itreallycomesdownto,youknow,howseveretheproblemisandwhatyouneedtodotofixit.Imean,I'mabigbelieverandIhavethisinmyownhousethat,youknow,ineverybedroomthere'sakillswitch.It'saverysimpleprocessforanelectriciantoinstallwhichbasicallyturnsofthepowertothatbedroomandmakesthebedroomatruesanctuarysothat,youknow,weallknow,don'thaveaTVinthebedroombecause,youknow,notonlyisitunhealthyfromafengshuiperspectivebutit'sunhealthytohavethatstimulationwhenyou'retryingtofallasleep,samewiththecellphone.Butit'salsounhealthyfromaradiationstandpoint.Sothekillswitchinthebedroomwillmakesurethatthat'sahealthysanctuary.Irecommendthatasaveryinexpensivewaytoensure,youknow,qualitysixtoeighthoursofsleepeverynight.Katie:IwouldagreewithyouandI'mgonnabepostingsoonabouthowwe'vedonethatinourownhouse,soI'llmakesuretolinktothataswellasyourinformationonthatintheshownotes.Ialsolike…couldsayfrommyownperspectiveandjustwhatI'veresearchedsomeofthesteps,itdoesn'thavetobesuperoverwhelmingespeciallyifyou'renotdealingwithextremehealthissues,evenjustthingslikewhatyousaid,mitigatingitatnight,turningofftheWi-Fiatnight.Evenifyou'regonnahaveWi-Fi,justturnitoffwhileyou'reasleepbecauseyou'renotusingitanyway.Andkeepingyourphoneonairplanemode,thatalonegivesyouatleastsomebreakwhileyou'reasleep.AndIfeellikeespeciallyforkids,theresearchI'veseen,andyoucanweighinonthis,isthatwe'reactuallymoresusceptibletothedamageofEMFswhilewe'resleepingbecausewe'reinamorevulnerablestatewhereourbodyisregeneratinganddoingallthethingsthathappenwhilewesleep.Andsoifyoucanreduceyourexposure,thenyou'reactuallygoingalotfarthertowardreducingyourtotalexposurethanevenavoidingitduringtheday.Isthatyourexperienceaswell?Andy:Onehundredpercentaccurate,Katie.Katie:Awesome.Well,likeIsaidatthebeginning,IliterallythinkIcouldtalktoyoualldayaboutthiskindofstuffbecauseyouaresuchawealthofknowledge.IdothinkIwillkindatrytogetyouinforaroundtwooneday,andIthinkwe'llgetalotofquestionsandcoulddoafollow-up.Butrealquick,canyougiveusarundownofwherepeoplecanfindyou,yourpodcast,andI'llputallthoselinksintheshownotesaswell.Andy:Great,thankyou.Somypodcastiscalled"Non-ToxicEnvironments."AndyoucangotoeitheriTunesorStitcher,orGooglePlayandyou'llfinditthere.Thewebsitethathousesthatiscalleddegreeofgreen.com.Soif


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yougotodegreeofgreen.com/itunes,itwilltakeyourighttothepodcastandthat'sallabouteducation.Youknow,atthispoint,we'renottryingtosellproduct,we'rejusttryingtogiveyouthetoolssoyoucanfindtheproductsthatmeetyourdegreeofgreen.Ifyoufindthatthereisaneedforaproduct,whetherit'sflooringmaterials,finishes,airandwaterpurificationdevices,anythingyouneedtocreateormaintainahealthyhome,ourwebsitewhichiscalledthegreendesigncenter.com,allspelledout,hasaboutrightnow3,000to4,000productstohelpmaintainthathealthyhomeandwe'readdingmoreeverysingleday.It'sjustahugetasktodoitbutwe'rehappytodothat.WefeelthatwearethedefinitiveresourceinNorthAmericaforhealthybuildingmaterials.Andwhileothersarefocusingongreen,wereallyfocusonthehealthofthehumanoccupant.Katie:Ilovethat.Ithinktheworkyou'redoingissoimportantandIwillmakesureallthethingsyoujustmentionedarelinkedintheshownotesatwellnessmama.fmalongwithinfo,ifanyonedoeswannadoaconsult,howtheycangetintouchwithyouthroughyourwebsite.And,likeIsaid,Iappreciatesomuchyourtimeofbeinghere.Iknowthatyouareaworld-renownedexpertonthisandIappreciateyousharingyourwisdomwithus.Andy:Ilovetodoit.Thankyousomuch,Katie.Katie:Andthankstoallofyouforlistening.AndIhopetoseeyounexttimeonthe"HealthyMomsPodcast."

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

175- when natural doesn’t mean safe- creating non-toxic ... · i prioritize organic sheets and...

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