2011-10-21 koh's mtn to reconsider prior ruling on mtn to ... · 12 came on forhearingon a...
TRANSCRIPT
I
1 STATE OF ILLINOIS
2 COUNTY OF COOK
3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT - CRIMINAL DIVISION
4 SECOND MUNTCIPAL DISTRICT
5 THE PEOPLE OF THESTATE OF ILLINOIS
6
Plaintiff7
vs No. 09 CR 091518
HYUNGSEOK KOH9
Defendant.10
REPORT OF PROCEEDINGSi1
BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-entitled cause12 came on for hearing on a MOTION TO QUASH ARREST AND
SUPPRESS STATEMENTS before the Honorable GARRITT13 HOWARD on November 13 2009 in Skokie Illinois.
14 APPEARANCES
15 HON. ANITA ALVAREZStates Attorney of Cook County by
16 MS. MICHELE GEMSKIE and MS. VICTORIA KLEGMANAssistant States Attorneys
17 for the People
18 MESSRS. ELLIOT ZINGER and PATRICK WALSHAttorneys at Law
19 for the Defendant.
20 MR. MAN HO HONG Official Interpreter
21
22
23 Ellen Mott-Jablonski CSR RPROfficial Court Reporter
24 Illinois License No. 084-001407
OFFICIAL COURT RZPORTERS - $47 470-7290
Exhibit A -- 1
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
39
1 sustained.
2 BY MR. ZINGER
3 Q. You had in your mind at that time the
4 question of whether or not your son was dead I think
5 you said
6 A. No I not disbelieve sic that one. Im
7 feel still alive. Because my wife was very -- hurry
8 to go to the hospital.
9 Q. Were you panicking at the time
10 A. Oh yes. Definitely yes.
11 Q. What was your wife doing when she was on the
12 ground on the lawn
13 A. Oh shes crying. She says she -- whats
14 going to do Are we going to go to the hospital.
15 You know. And then she be asking. And she crying is
16 it.
17 Q. Why did you want to go to the hospital
18 A. Because is I want my son is make sure.
19 Q. Now were you and your wife taken to the
20 Northbrook police station at any time
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Were you taken to -- do you know where the
23 police station
24 A. Yes. They take the police station.
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS - 847 470-7290
Exhibit A -- 2
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
52
1 A. In English Yes.
2 MR. ZINGER Okay. Wed ask that it be
3 admitted into evidence.
4 THE COURT Defense 3 will be admitted.
5 MR. ZINGER Thank you.
6 BY MR. ZINGER
7 Q. While you were in the police car did you
8 want to be in the police car
9 A. No. I dont want it this. I go to the
10 hospital.
11 Q. Did you ever tell the driver you want to go
12 to the hospital
13 A. I talk to this to go to the hospital. But
14 they say just yes yes yes and then turn right.
15 Q. Did you know what direction right was
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. Were you ever given any kind of arrest
18 warrant shown an arrest warrant by any of the police
19 officers
20 A. No. They didnt show that time.
21 Q. Okay. Im going to ask if this can be
22 interpreted at this time please.
23 A. No. Totally no.
24 Q. Okay. Were you ever shown a search warrant
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS - 847 470-7290
Exhibit A -- 3
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
STATE OF IL I1NaI5
SSaouvlY OF C 0 0 K
IN THE CSROJIT COURT OF COOK COUNT r ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT-CRIMINAL DIVISION
PEOPLE OF THE STATEOF ILLINOIS
Plaintiff
vs. 09 CR 9151
WUNGSCOK KOH
Defendant.
MDtICN ID QL ASH ARREST AND SUPPRESS EVIDENCE
REPORT OF PROCFHGS had at the hearing in
the above-entitled cause before the HONORABLE CARRITTE.
HOWARD Judge of said court on the 22nd day of march
2010.
PRESENT
HON. ANITA M. ALVAREZSTATES ATTORNEY OF CJOOK C NTY byMS. MICHELE A. GDMSKIEAssistant States Attorney
Appeared on behalf oo the Plaintiff
P.R. ELLIOT R. ZINGERPrivate Defense Attorney
Appeared on behalf of the Defendant
Barbara Liberko official Court ReporterLicense No. 084-001023
1
Exhibit A -- 4
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Q Did you take your time in doing this project
2 A Yes.
3 Q How much time did it take you to do this
4 project
5 A i didnt have a measurement of the time but
6 to my guess my approximation is about three to
7 four hours.
8 Q The video itself was a couple of hours
9 A I think so. I believe its over one hour. I
10 didnt take any measurements.
11 Q Right. But the Korean part obviously was a
12 lot shorter
13 A Yes.
14 Q You carefully listened to every Korean
15 question every Korean answer and you carefully
16 translated it in that document
17 A Yes.
18 Q And that document truly and accurately
19 depicts year official translation of what you saw in
20 that video correct
21 A Yes.
22 R. ZIN R lark you. I have no further
23 questions. And we would nave to introduce Defendants
24 rAber 12 int o evidence as a spplement to the video
81
Exhibit A -- 5
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 that was tendered last week.
2 THE taw any objection frcrn the State
3 MS. SKIS No your Honor.
4 -RE awn okay oefendarrts 12 is admitted.
5 Cross eXanination.
6 CROSS EX fl1 ICN
7 BY MS. GDME8 Q Can you tell me a 1i the bit abort the
9 training that youve had as an interpreter or
10 translator
11 A I an a graduate of Northstern university in
12 English parts. Im an industrial engineer and I got a
13 masters degree of that school. since then I was
14 working at skill Corporation as an industrial engineer
15 for seven years and after that I have experience of
16 sales of insurance. And that time I mostly translated
17 the English -- I mean the insurance policies and claim
18 forms into Korean for Korean clients. and after that I
19 have my own agency named Korean Trans7atia7 t etuoi
20 mostly doing Korean/English translation interpretation
21 of the Court also.
22 Q Your masters though was in electrical
23 engineering
24 A mistrial.
82
Exhibit A -- 6
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 STATE OF ILI IS
SS2 TrYOFCOOK
3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF O CX V Y IlLINOISMUNICIPAL DEPARDENT - SE XI D MWICIPAL DISTRICT
4
THE PEOPLE OF THES STATE OF ILLINOIS
6 Plaintiff
7 09 CR. 9151
8 HYT..N3SE0K KOH
9 Defendant
10
Report of Proceedings on the hearing had11 before the WI AE LE GARRITT 7WARD Judge f the
Circuit Court of Cook County Illir is on the 15th12 day of July 2010 upon the proceed of
toeabove-entitled case.13
APPEARANCES14
HON. ANITA M. ALVAREZ15 State I s Attorney of Cock Comty by
M. MICHELE G51SM16 MS. VICrCRIA KL W
Assistant States Attorney17 appeared for the People
18 MR. SOT ZflERapp cared for the Defendant.
19
20 ALSO PRESENT Official Korean Interpreter
21 Helen Miller C.S.R.Official Ccuxt Reporter
22 License No. 084-004434
23
24
1
Exhibit A -- 7
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 the Horning of the ni rder correct
2 MS. GEMSKCE Objection foundationhasto when.
3 THE COURT Sustained.
4 BY MR. ZIIR
5 Q Were you made aware of that fact at any tine
6 A Yes.
7 Q When were you first made aware thgt the
8 neighbor of the Kohs heard a scream and a bang
9 A I m unsure of that.
10 Q It was prior to the second inter4ew
11 correct
12 A To be honest Im unsure if it wa6 before
13 that.
14 Q But you confronted Mr. Koh and asked him why
15 didnt he hear the scream and the bang correct
16 MS. GEMSKIE Objection.
17 THE COURT Overruled.
18 You may answer.
19 T WITNESS Evidently I did. I dont renather
20 that part of the interview either.
21 BY MR. ZIl.
22 Q Well when you did that he was yrar suspect
23 wasnt he
24 MS. GEMKCE Objection.
121Exhibit A -- 8
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 T COW.- Sustained.
2 BY MR. ZINGER
3 Q You didnt believe anything he told Isnt
4 that why you asked him questions such as that
5 M5. E C ijecticn.
6 THE T Sustained.
7 BY MR. ZINGER
8 Q Who was your cotmrander that ordered you to
9 interrogate Mr. Koh
10 MS. G v E.. objection.
11 TEE OOLRT Poor choice of wands but overruled.
12 You may answer.
13 THE WITNESS It was Cmr r er Dunham.
14 BY MR. Z
15 Q Is that the same Camander Dunham uto came
16 into the interview roan prior to Interview Number 3
17 ending who knocked on the d or
18 A Yes.
19 Q And when Oarnmarnder Dunham knocked on the
20 door that was about 3 minutes before Suspect Vim
21 Nunter 3 ended correct
22 A Approximately.
23 Q And what -- and the videotaping sttcd
24 correct
122Exhibit A -- 9
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A Yes.
2 Q And you had a conversation with cxrwxler
3 Dunham correct
4 A At what point
5 Q When you left the roan in the middle of
6 Suspect Videotape NLmt er 3--7A Yes yes.
8 Q -- you had a conversation with Officer
9 Dunham. Youve already testified to that
10 conversation--11A Yes I did.
12 Q -- direct examination
13 A I didnt know if you meant--14Q And Qxmex r Dunham told you that the
15 defendants attorney was in the police station and
16 wanted to speak with his client isnt that correct
17 A He said the attorney would be on h.s way.
18 Q V at do you mean oin his way19 A He said he would be caz his way bacc here.
20 Q To the door where you were
21 A Yeah. I assxmred that yeah.
22 Q Well did you -- when you carne back into the
23 room did you tell my client your attorney is ou
24 his way
123Exhibit A -- 10
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A I did not.
2 Q Do you understand that the law in this state
3 requires you to do that
4 A I did not.
5 MS. GEMSKIE Objection.
6 THE CXJRT Sustained.
7 BY MR. ZINCR.
8 Q Why didnt you tell him your attorney is
9 here to see you would you life to speak with him
10 A We went--11MS. GEMSKLE Objection.
12 TM WITNESS -- one step farther in bringing the
13 attorney back to the room.
14 UE WJRT Overruled. Answer may std.
15 BY MR. ZINGER
16 Q My question is Why didnt you tell him that
17 his attorney was on the way and would like to speak
18 with him
19 MS. GEMSKIE Asked and answered.
20 THE COURT Overruled.
21 You may answer sir.
22 THE WITNESS At that time I didnt know if it
23 was his attorney it was his wifes attorney. All I
24 know is it was an attorney coming back.
124Exhibit A -- 11
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 BY MR. ZINGER
2 Q Cawonder Dutbam came up to the cbor and
3 told--4A -- said.
5 Q -- his attorney did he not
6 A No. He said there was an attorney there.
7 Q He just told you an attorney was sing8 into the police station and you didnt even know
9 whose attorney it was Is that your testier
10 A Theres an attorney there. The w4y I assumed
11 is that Mr. Koh never asked for anattorney
never
12 wanted an attorney. When he said theres an attorney
13 here for Mr. Koh hell be on his way back -- thats
14 exactly what he told me.
15 Q He told you an attorney for Mr. Koh is on his
16 way. Isnt that what he told you when he knocked on
17 the door
18 A Theres an attorney here that wants to see
19 Mr. Koh and hes can his way back here that is
20 correct.
21 Q And did you convey that message toMr. Koh
22 THE COLRT You already established that
23 Counsel.
24 BY MR. ZIl
125Exhibit A -- 12
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
ORIGINAL
1 STATE OF ILLINOIS
2 COUNTY OF COOK
3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT - CRIMINAL DIVISION
4 SECOND MUNICIPAL DISTRICT
5
THE PEOPLE OF THE6 STATE OF ILLINOIS
7 Plaintiff
8 vs No. 09 CR 09151
9 HYUNGSEOK KOH
10 Defendant.
11 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
12 BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-entitled causecame on for hearing before the Honorable GARRITT
13 HOWARD on May 16 2011 in Skokie Illinois.
14 APPEARANCES
15 HON. ANITA ALVAREZStates Attorney of Cook County by
16 MS. MICHELE GEMSKIE and MS. VICTORIA KLEGMANAssistant States Attorneys
17 for the People
18 MESSRS. ANDREW VAIL DANIEL FENSKEMS. TERRI MASCHERIN and MR. ELLIOT ZINGER
19 Attorneys at Lawfor the Defendant.
20Also present Mr. limo Son
21 Korean Court Interpreter.
22
23
Ellen Mott-Jablonski CSR RPR24 Official Court Reporter
Illinois License No. 084-001407
Exhibit A -- 1 17
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 We expect that the State is going to meet
2 its burden of proof at every stage to show that the
3 defendants statements were voluntary and
4 furthermore that its probative value exceeds the
5 prejudicial value. And well be asking you to deny
6 the defendants motion. Thank you.
7 THE COURT All right. State you may call
8 your first witness.
9 Please remain standing. Raise your right
10 hand and be sworn.
11 Witness sworn.
12 Please be seated.
13 MS. GEMSKIE Judge before we begin I have
14 discussed with counsel. There was a rather lengthy
15 motion to quash arrest. We have agreed to stipulate
16 to the testimony that was heard at the motion to
17 quash arrest in an attempt to not duplicate a lot of
18 the same testimony.
19 Is that agreed
20 MR. VAIL Thats been agreed your Honor.
21 THE COURT Okay. Just so the record is clear
22 are you stipulating to all the testimony at the
23 motion or individual witnesses or how are you doing
24 that
19Exhibit A -- 18
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 MS. GEMSKIE We have no problem stipulating to
2 the entirety.
3 MR. VAIL We agree.
4 THE COURT So all of the testimony that I
5 heard pursuant to the motion to quash arrest and
6 suppress evidence is admitted as part of this
7 hearing.
8 MR. VAIL That is correct your Honor.
9 MS. GEMSKIE Thank you Judge.
10 THE COURT All right. So stipulated.
11 Does that include exhibits as well
12 MS. GEMSKIE Yes Judge.
13 THE COURT Counsel
14 MR. VAIL Yes your Honor.
15 THE COURT Okay. Very well.
16 MS. GEMSKIE Im sorry. Youve been sworn
17 THE WITNESS Yes I have.
18 DETECTIVE MARK GRAF
19 having been first duly sworn was examined and
20 testified as follows
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22 BY MS. GEMSKIE
23 Q. Detective Graf would you please once again
24 introduce yourself to the judge
20Exhibit A -- 19
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. I didnt say the words youre free to
2 leave no.
3 Q. Before you started the first interview of
4 Mr. Koh did you advise him that he could stop the
5 interview at any time
6 A. That was part of the Miranda rights.
7 Q. And that was something that you said to
8 him
9 A. No.
10 Q. So you did not advise him
11 A. No no no.
12 Q. Before you started the interview with Mr.
13 Koh did you advise him he was free to speak to anyone
14 he wished at that time
15 A. He was told that by other people. I didnt
16 personally know that people were there but I believe
17 officer Johnson and them told him he was there.
18 Thats why in the interview at the beginning when it
19 said the lawyer he asked if could he speak to his
20 pastor. So thats when I found out that the pastor
21 was there.
22 Q. So lets step back to that. What youre
23 telling us is when he was giving his Miranda warnings
24 he asked to see a pastor
78Exhibit A -- 20
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And did you allow him to see a pastor
3 A. I said you can have your attorney. We
4 wanted to talk to himself. We dont usually like to
5 bring someone in the room when were talking because
6 that person may interject something that they said.
7 So in most cases we dont have somebody sitting there
8 if were trying to get information from them.
9 Q. If someone was not under arrest and they
10 had asked you to see their pastor though you could
11 have stopped the interview and allowed him out of the
12 room to go see the pastor. Right
13 MS. GEMSKIE Objection. Relevance.
14 THE COURT Sustained.
15 BY MR. VAIL
16 Q. Did you in this case when he asked to see
17 the pastor stop the interview and allow him to see
18 the pastor
19 A. No. He didnt ask to see him. He asked if
20 he could come into the interview with him.
21 Q. How did you know that Mr. Koh asked to see
22 a pastor
23 A. He said it in the interview. To Phil.
24 Q. He said it to Phil in English
79Exhibit A -- 21
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. No. I believe it was in Korean because he
2 said can he see the pastor. He said no.
3 Q. You testified earlier you dont understand
4 any Korean. Right
5 A. No. Phil.
6 Q. So Phil told you
7 A. Well he said it -- I dont know. I cant
8 be quoted. But I dont know if he said it to me and
9 I said it to him or he said it to Phil.
10 Q. Who is he
11 A. To Mr. Koh.
12 Q. Mr. Koh said to Phil what
13 A. He was asking if he could have his pastor.
14 Q. And Phil told that to you
15 A. In the interview. I believe he said it to
16 me yes.
17 Q. And what was your response
18 A. I dont know if I told him or Phil told
19 him but he said that you cant have your pastor in
20 here. You can have your attorney in the interview if
21 you like.
22 Q. Did Phil Kim have the authority to make
23 those types of decisions during your interrogation
24 MS. GEMSKIE Objection.
$0Exhibit A -- 22
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 are going to be doing I explained to him beforehand
2 that we were going to be video taping. He expressed
3 that he understood that we had the video camera
4 going that we were going to tape it.
5 And then as I started I explained that we
6 were going to do Miranda. He was nodding and
7 acknowledging that he was understanding what I was
8 saying.
9 Q. And we saw the video in the form from the
10 Miranda form that he signed at the beginning of the
11 first interrogations. Right
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And did you pick up on that he signed that
14 form before Kim translated it to him
15 A. He as I handed it to him he started
16 signing it. Yes.
17 Q. This was before it had been translated to
18 him in Korean isnt that right
19 A. I think he just started in translating it
20 to him yes. That is correct.
21 Q. And do you recall when he signed that
22 form when he was to put in the date and time that
23 he was going to put in the wrong date and time the
24 date and time of Pauls death. You had to redirect
Exhibit A --88
23
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 him that he needed the date and time of today
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So he didnt understand what date and time
4 he was supposed to put on that form
5 MS. GEMSKIE Objection.
6 THE COURT Sustained.
7 BY MR. VAIL
8 Q. Do you recall what the first question you
9 asked Mr. Koh during the first interview was
10 A. Yes. I said Im going to ask you some
11 questions -- this may not be verbatim. But I said
12 were going to ask you some questions about the
13 events of the night of this night. But before we
14 start that can you tell me a little bit about very
15 briefly tell me about Paul about his friends and
16 what type of person he was.
17 Q. And that was all one long first sentence to
18 the question
19 A. Yes it was.
20 Q. It wasnt broken up where you first asked
21 him what we wanted to do is we want to talk about
22 what happened last night. Okay And then let him
23 respond to that
24 A. That is correct. It was one question.
89Exhibit A -- 24
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 altercation with him then when he came home late
2 Answer Oh yeah. Oh no.
3 What did you take Mr. Koh to be telling
4 you there that he had been or had not been into an
5 altercation with his son prior to that night
6 A. Well thats when he used the interpreter.
7 Right after that.
8 Q. Right after that.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Lets talk about right before that the
11 part I just read to you
12 A. I mean at that particular time I dont know
13 if I had an answer. Thats what Im reading here.
14 But I probably didnt have an answer. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. So it wasnt clear to you
16 A. No.
17 Q. It was confusing to you
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. During the second interview at some point
20 do you recall Mr. Koh smacking himself on the head
21 A. T do remember in the second interview like
22 oh yeah. I do remember now. Yes.
23 Q. Thats what he said when he smacked himself
24 on the head oh yeah I do remember
Exhibit A --124
25
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Paul with the phone. I know she said she called out
2 to him.
3 Q. It was your testimony earlier that Mr. Koh
4 told you that when he went to look for Paul he
5 checked the computer room area correct Not that he
6 went onto the computer.
7 A. I believe what he said was he went to check
8 the computer. Then he checked his bedroom. And he
9 checked the family room.
10 Q. what does that mean or what does it mean
11 when he checked the computer
12 A. I guess he would check to see if Paul was
13 on the computer in that room to see if he was there.
14 Thats what I took it as.
15 Q. Okay. Lets turn to the end of the second
16 interview near the very end of it. You were told
17 that an attorney had arrived for Mr. Koh right
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And Commander Dunham came to the room and
20 told you that
21 A. Yes. He knocked on the door.
22 Q. Knocked on the door. You left the room
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And what did as best as you can remember
Exhibit A --146
26
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Commander Dunham tell you when you two went outside
2 of the room
3 A. He said there was an attorney coming and
4 he would bring him back.
5 Q. Okay. And you did not have that
6 conversation in the room in front of Mr. Koh right
7 A. No I did not.
8 Q. When you came back into the room did you
9 tell. Mr. Koh that an attorney was coming back to the
10 room
11 A. I did not.
12 Q. And why didnt you do that
13 A. I -- he was bringing the attorney back for
14 him. So--15Q. And instead of doing that you rushed Mr.
16 Koh to give you a confession in the case didnt you
17 A. I continued my interview.
18 Q. Could we play that video clip
19 Exhibit played.
20 So that was the third tape in the second
21 period. I mean its 1812 to 1915. And from the
22 transcripts page 154 lines 3 to 23.
23 That knock at the door was the knock that
24 we just talked about Commander Dunham coming
Exhibit A -- 14727
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 telling you the attorney was coming right
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Why did you tell him to hurry up4 A. To finish the interview.
5 Q. Why did you clap in his face
6 A. I couldnt tell you why I clapped in his
7 face. I mean I could tell you that we were
8 finishing the interview. And we were right there. I
9 had him actually at that point admitting to what was
10 happening. And you want to continue the interview.
11 You dont want to leave a lull in an interview or
12 give them a time to start you know coming up with
13 an excuse of what happened. Once they start giving
14 you the information you want to continue the
15 interview. And thats always the technique in your
16 interviews.
17 Q. You understood it in your experience that
18 when that attorney got back to the room he was going
19 to ask you to stop the interview right
20 A. Absolutely. Yes.
21 Q. Just a few more questions Sergeant Graf
22 then I think Im done here with my cross.
23 First you were promoted to sergeant after
24 Mr. Koh was arrested for the murder of his son
Exhibit A --148
28
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 STATE OF ILLINOISSS
2 COUNTY OF C O 0 K
3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT - CRIMINAL DIVISION
4 SECOND MUNICIPAL DISTRICT
5 THE PEOPLE OF THESTATE OF ILLINOIS
6
Plaintiff7
vs. No. 09 CR 91518
HYUNGSEOK KOH9
Defendant.10
11 Report of proceedings on a Motion
12 to Suppress Statements had at the above-entitled
13 cause before the Honorable GARRITT E. HOWARD Judge
14 of said Court on the 31st day of May 2011.
15 APPEARANCES
16 HON. ANITA M. ALVAREZStates Attorney of Cook County
17 By MS. MICHELE A. GEMSKIE andMS. VICTORIA A. KLEGMAN
18 Assistants States Attorneyon behalf of the People
19ELLIOT ZINGER ASSOCIATES
20 By MR. ELLIOT R. ZINGERon behalf of the Defendant.
21
22
23 Stacy L. PaolinoOfficial Court Reporter
24 CSR License No. 084-004349
1
Exhibit A -- 29
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 BY MS. GEMSKIE
2 Q. The portion that I just played you shows
3 you and the defendant speaking to each other in
4 Korean after Detective Graf says hes going to tell
5 Miranda rights. What is it that you are saying to
6 the defendant and what is he telling you
7 A. I am saying to him that -- Im gonna say to
8 him that Im gonna be explaining his human rights to
9 him and that I will be explaining -- or translating
10 or interpreting as hes reading it off.
11 Q. And what does the defendant say to you
12 A. That he didnt know what human rights were.
13 Q. And why is it that you were using the term
14 human rights as opposed to Miranda rights
15 A. Because Mirandas the name of a case. A
16 name wouldnt translate over into Korean. It would
17 still be Miranda so ..
18 Q. if you were to say Miranda in Korean it
19 would just be Miranda
20 A. Right it would just be Miranda.
21 Video played.
22 Video paused.
23 BY MS. GEMSKIE
24 Q. At that point Detective Graf asked the
13Exhibit A -- 30
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Video paused.
2 BY MS. GEMSKIE
3 Q. What does Detective Graf advise the
4 defendant of
5 A. That you have a right to remain silent.
6 Q. And what happens once Detective Graf tells
7 him that right
8 A. Theres a pause and I translate. I say to
9 him You have a human right to not say anything if he
10 doesnt want to in Korean.
11 Q. And what is the defendants response at
12 that point
13 A. He nods his head in the affirmative where
14 he acknowledges me.
15 MR. THOMSON Objection.
16 THE COURT Sustained as to the last portion of
17 the answer.
18 BY MS. GEMSKIE
19 Q. And does the defendant also make a
20 statement out loud in English
21 A. Yes. He responds yes in English.
22 Video played.
23 Video paused.
24
17
Exhibit A -- 31
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 BY MS. GEMSKIE
2 Q. And at that point what does the detective
3 advise the defendant
4 A. That anything he can and say will be used
5 against him in a court of law.
6 Q. Did you end up translating that right for
7 the defendant
8 A. No I did not.
9 Q. And why not
10 A. Because he appeared to have understood what
11 I had said. He did not look at me and responded in
12 English to the last question.
13 MR. THOMSON Im gonna object.
14 THE COURT Whats your objection
15 MR. THOMSON I think it states -- I dont
16 think anyone responded to that. I think the evidence
17 is what it is and this is where we get into the
18 problem.
19 THE COURT Overruled.
20 Video played.
21 Video paused.
22 BY MS. GEMSKIE
23 Q. What does the detective advise him at that
24 point
18
Exhibit A -- 32
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 THE COURT I can hear what he advised him.
2 MS. GEMSKIE Well Id like to make it clear
3 for the record Judge.
4 THE COURT Okay.
5 THE WITNESS That he has a right to an
6 attorney with him while hes being questioned.
7 BY MS. GEMSKIE
8 Q. And how does the defendant respond
9 A. He does not seem confused at all.
10 Q. And when he nods his head is it in an
11 affirmative way or in a way that suggests he does not
12 understand
13 A. He nods affirmatively.
14 MR. THOMSON Objection.
15 THE COURT Overruled.
16 BY MS. GEMSKIE
17 Q. Do you explain that right to him
18 A. No I do not.
19 Q. And why not
20 A. Because he appears to understand.
21 Video played.
22 Video paused.
23 BY MS. GEMSKIE
24 Q. And what does the detective then advise him
19Exhibit A -- 33
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
I Q. If I can stop you for one moment.
2 Are you and the defendant alone then in
3 that conference room that you can see in the video
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And what was the reason that you said that
6 to the defendant
7 A. Well I didnt want to be disrespectful in
8 any way in case like my honorifics werent that
9 fluent.
10 Q. And when you say -- I know you explained
11 this in the motion to quash arrest but once again
12 can you explain what you mean by honorifics
13 A. Its a language set within our language
14 which reflects respect for his elders strangers and
15 people of high positions.
16 Q. So you didnt want to insult him--17A. No I did not.
18 Q. -- would that be fair to say
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. After the defendant asked you to translate
21 for his wife did you remain in the room with the
22 defendant
23 A. Yes I did.
24 Q. And did anything else happen while you were
28Exhibit A -- 34
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Do you recall writing in that police report
3 that you apologized to Mr. Koh because your Korean
4 was quote Not as fluent as I would like it to be
5 A. Yes.
6 MS. GEMSKIE Objection. Theres no quotes.
7 And I would also object that its non-impeaching.
8 THE COURT Could you repeat your question
9 Counsel
10 BY MR. THOMSON
11 Q. Do you recall what you wrote in terms of
12 your ability or your fluency or lack thereof--13THE COURT Im asking for my benefit.
14 MR. THOMSON Im sorry.
15 THE COURT For my benefit will you reread the
16 question you just asked
17 MR. THOMSON Sure.
18 BY MR. THOMSON
19 Q. You wrote in your police report April 16th
20 2009 that you apologized to Mr. Koh because your
21 Korean was quote Not as fluent as I would like it
22 to be. Do you recall reading that
23 THE COURT And your objection is
24 MS. GEMSKIE Number one it is not in quotes
43Exhibit A -- 35
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 and number two its non-impeaching.
2 THE COURT Well its arguable as to whether
3 or not -- it doesnt have much impeachment value.
4 Ill allow it. Overruled.
5 You may answer. Is that what you wrote in
6 your report
7 THE WITNESS Yes your Honor.
8 BY MR. THOMSON
9 Q. And do you recall if you wrote anything
10 in that report that you apologized because of
11 honorifics
12 A. No.
13 Q. You didnt include that in your report did
14 you
15 A. No.
16 Q. And Im gonna talk about -- theres two
17 interrogation sessions of Mr. Koh that day correct
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Im gonna talk about them kind of
20 collectively as the interrogation okay
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. During the interrogation did you ever tell
23 Detective Graf or Detective Ustich that you
24 apologized to Mr. Koh on April 16th over your level
44
Exhibit A -- 36
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 of Korean
2 A. No.
3 Q. And when yoi met with Mrs. Koh and
4 translated for her interrogation you also apologized
5 to her for your level of Korean isnt that correct
6 A. Thats correct.
7 Q. And you didnt tell Detective Graf or
8 Detective Ustich about that apology either did you
9 A. No I did not.
10 Q. Now I believe you testified that you said
11 you used honorifics with Mr. and Mrs. Koh because you
12 wanted to show them respect is that correct
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. You wanted them to trust you is that
15 right
16 A. I dont know if thats exactly the motive.
17 Its just respect.
18 Q. Well let me just ask you did you want
19 Mr. and Mrs. Koh to trust you when you were in there
20 MS. GEMSKIE Objection relevance.
21 THE COURT Sustained.
22 BY MR. THOMSON
23 Q. Officer Kim you wouldnt say youre fluent
24 in Korean would you
45
Exhibit A -- 37
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Q. Okay. Now when you were elaborating on
2 the right to an attorney in Korean did you use
3 honorifics
4 A. That same way I was using it before the
5 non-disrespectful way in the casual sense.
6 Q. And did you inform Mr. Koh when you were
7 speaking Korean that he had the right to an attorney
8 present at the interrogation at that time
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And do you believe he understood at that
11 time that he had a right to an attorney present
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And when you told him about his right to an
14 attorney he asked for a pastor isnt that right
15 A. Yes he did.
16 Q. And you told him no he could not have a
17 pastor isnt that right
18 A. Yes I did.
19 Q. And you didnt translate Mr. Kohs request
20 for his pastor to Detective Graf or Detective Ustich
21 at that time did you
22 A. It was in English.
23 Q. Excuse me
24 A. He said -- I think he said pastor in
54
Exhibit A -- 38
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 THE COURT Move on. And you certainly may
2 make the argument at the appropriate time that it was
3 not responsive.
4 BY MR. THOMSON
5 Q. Officer Kim do you know the word for sink
6 in Korean
7 THE COURT Sink s-i-n-k
8 MR. THOMSON Yes.
9 THE WITNESS Hearing it right now Im all a
10 little--11MS. GEMSKIE Im gonna object as to relevance.
12 THE COURT Ill allow him a little latitude.
13 Where you going with this
14 MR. THOMSON Just three questions on this
15 your Honor.
16 THE COURT Okay. Go ahead.
17 BY MR. THOMSON
18 Q. So sitting here today you cant recall
19 what the word for sink is in Korean is that fair to
20 say
21 A. Not right now yes.
22 Q. What about the word strainer
23 A. Not right now.
24 Q. What about the word dish rack
75
Exhibit A -- 39
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 MS. GEMSKIE Im gonna renew my objection.
2 THE COURT Overruled.
3 MR. THOMSON Ill move off that your Honor.
4 THE COURT I didnt hear the answer.
5 BY MR. THOMSON
6 Q. Sorry. Go ahead. If you can give an
7 answer.
8 A. I didnt give an answer.
9 Q. I apologize.
10 THE COURT Do you know dish rack in Korean
11 THE WITNESS Not right now sir.
12 BY MR. THOMSON
13 Q. During the interrogation you observed
14 Mr. Koh confusing words in English isnt that fair
15 to say
16 MS. GEMSKIE Objection calls for speculation
17 to the defendants mind.
18 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
19 THE WITNESS Can you repeat that sir
20 BY MR. THOMSON
21 Q. Sure. I think I asked you do you recall
22 observing Mr. Koh confusing words in English
23 A. If youre asking if I recall not at this
24 moment but I dont want to testify that it didnt
76
Exhibit A -- 40
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 THE WITNESS Im sorry. I need to speak up
2 THE COURT Ordinarily it would be okay but
3 weve got an interpreter. You know Im hearing the
4 interpreter so you have to speak louder so that I
5 can hear you over the interpreter.
6 THE WITNESS Yes sir.
7 THE COURT Thank you.
8 BY MR. THOMSON
9 Q. Just so the records clear you didnt go
10 and tell Mr. Koh at any point that he could speak
11 with his pastor correct
12 A. No I did not.
13 Q. And you didnt tell Mr. Koh that he could
14 speak with his daughter correct
15 A. I did not.
16 Q. And during April 16th prior to the end of
17 that interview no one -- you never witnessed anyone
18 tell Mr. Koh that he could speak with his pastor
19 correct
20 A. No I did not.
21 Q. And you never witnessed anyone tell
22 Mr. Koh that he could speak with his daughter
23 correct
24 A. Thats correct.
90Exhibit A -- 41
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 to people who are at the police station
2 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
3 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
4 THE WITNESS We would typically give Miranda
5 warnings if we were going to embark upon custodial
6 interrogations. And Ive always instructed my guys
7 to err on the side of caution and provide Miranda if
8 theres any doubt.
9 BY MR. ZINGER
10 Q. Okay. So it would be your procedure and it
11 was your procedure on the date of this incidentthat
12 if there was a custodial interrogation you would
13 give Miranda warnings
14 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
15 BY MR. ZINGER
16 Q. You would require the detectives to give
17 Miranda warnings correct
18 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
19 THE WITNESS Yes.
20 BY MR. ZINGER
21 Q. And thats in fact why Miranda warnings
22 were given to Mr. Koh at the outset at 730 a.m. and
23 later at approximately 1130 a.m. correct
24 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
113Exhibit A -- 42
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 BY MR. ZINGER
2 Q. There were no log-in sheets on the date of
3 this incident correct
4 A. Not attorney-specific log-in sheets no.
5 Q. Well if an attorney came to the police
6 station would that attorney be expected to sign in
7 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
8 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
9 THE WITNESS Typically at that time our
10 assignment procedures were probably more lax than
11 they are now. And if he was accompanied by an
12 officer and was an attorney or officer of the court
13 we typically would not probably have required them to
14 sign in as a visitor.
15 BY MR. ZINGER
16 Q. You mentioned that at 1250 you went to the
17 lobby of the police station correct
18 A. Yes approximately.
19 Q. And at that time the interrogation of my
20 client Mr. Koh was still going on correct
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You were aware of that
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. And can you tell the Court why you
124Exhibit A -- 43
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 went to the lobby of the police station
2 A. To get his attorney.
3 Q. To get Mr. Kohs attorney
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And how did you become aware that Mr. Kohs
6 attorney was in the lobby
7 A. I was notified by someone and I dont
8 recall who or if it was a phone call or direct
9 notification but somebody told me that there was an
10 individual in the lobby representing themselves as an
11 attorney that wanted to speak with Mr. Koh.
12 Q. And you have no idea who this person was
13 who notified you
14 A. I dont.
15 Q. On the date of this incident you compiled
16 a police report correct
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And on that date you also had no idea who
19 notified you correct
20 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
21 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer if you
22 know.
23 THE WITNESS. T probably remembered on that
24 date.
125
Exhibit A -- 44
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. Im sure it was somebody that worked for
2 the police department.
3 Q. You do have citizens working in the lobby
4 for the police department correct
5 A. Civilians
6 Q. Civilians.
7 A. Yes. It may have been a civilian or a
8 police officer.
9 Q. Okay. But you do know for sure that they
10 told you that Mr. Kohs attorney was in the lobby
11 correct
12 A. That there was somebody in the lobby
13 representing themselves as an attorney that wanted to
14 speak to Mr. Koh.
15 Q. In other words an attorney for Mr. Koh
16 you were clear about that correct
17 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
18 THE COURT Sustained.
19 BY MR. ZINGER
20 Q. You were not under the impression that the
21 attorney in the lobby was an attorney for any
22 situation or any person outside of Mr. Koh who was
23 being interrogated by Detective Graf is that fair to
24 say
128
Exhibit A -- 45
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
2 THE COURT Counsel I think youve made your
3 point. Somebody told the commander that there was
4 somebody who said he was Mr. Kohs attorney and
5 wanted to talk to him that was the message.
6 BY MR. ZINGER
7 Q. How do you know it was 1250 when you got
8 that notification
9 A. I wrote that in the police report.
10 Q. That it was 1250 when you were first
11 notified
12 A. Approximately 1250 I believe I wrote.
13 Q. So it could have been a few minutes before
14 it could have been a few minutes after
15 A. Approximately yeah.
16 Q. It could have been correct
17 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
18 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
19 THE WITNESS I wrote approximately.
20 BY MR. ZINGER
21 Q. When you had the conversation with the
22 person who notified you about the attorney did you
23 say anything else to this person did they say
24 anything else to you during that conversation
129Exhibit A -- 46
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. No nothing else that I recall.
2 Q. Okay. And did you immediately go to the
3 lobby
4 A. Yeah. I ..
5 Q. How long did it take you to walk to the
6 lobby
7 A. I dont recall where I was. So I proceeded
8 to the lobby and talked to the attorney in the lobby.
9 Q. But you were in the police station
10 A. I was.
11 Q. So it didnt take you more than say a
12 couple of minutes correct
13 A. No I dont think so.
14 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
15 THE COURT Overruled. The answer may stand.
16 BY MR. ZINGER
17 Q. Did you go anywhere else in between going
18 to see the attorney Did you go anywhere else in
19 between walking from wherever you were in the police
20 station to go see the attorney
21 A. No.
22 Q. So you went directly to see the attorney
23 A. Yes_
24 Q. Did you see an attorney there
130
Exhibit A -- 47
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did this attorney hand you his business
3 card
4 A. He did.
5 MR. ZINGER Im gonna mark this as Defendant
6 No. 4.
7 Defendants Exhibit No. 4 was
8 marked for identification.
9 BY MR. ZINGER
10 Q. Let me show you what Ive marked as
11 Defendant No. 4 for identification. Is that a copy
12 of the attorneys business card that was handed to
13 you
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And the name on that business card is
16 Michael J. Shim attorney at law correct
17 A. Yes.
18 MR. ZINGER S-h-I-m.
19 BY MR. ZINGER
20 Q. And you had a conversation at that time
21 with Mr. Shim
22 A. I did.
23 Q. As you were holding his business card
24 correct
131
Exhibit A -- 48
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And during that conversation Mr. Shim told
3 you he came to see Mr. Koh
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did Mr. Shim tell you that he was aware
6 that Mr. Koh was being interrogated in the police
7 station
8 A. I dont believe so.
9 Q. Did you tell Mr. Shim that Mr. Koh was
10 being interrogated in the police station
11 A. I dont believe so.
12 Q. What did you tell Mr. Shim
13 A. I told Mr. Shim I would go advise Mr. Koh
14 of his presence.
15 Q. Well what did Mr. Shim tell you before you
16 told him that
17 A. That he was at the station to see -- on
18 behalf of the Kohs or Mr. Koh.
19 Q. Okay. And you were aware that there was an
20 interrogation going on correct
21 A. Um-hmm.
22 Q. And you were also aware that the focus of
23 the interrogation was Mr. Koh correct
24 A. Yes I was.
132
Exhibit A -- 49
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 BY MR. ZINGER
2 Q. Were you aware in Illinois that a police
3 department or a police official has to advise the
4 person who is being interrogated that his attorney is
5 in the building
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. You were aware of that correct
8 A. Yeah.
9 Q. Okay. So after Michael Shim told you he
10 was there to see Mr. Koh you didnt bring him to the
11 interrogation room with you correct
12 A. Right.
13 Q. Why not
14 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
15 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
16 THE WITNESS Because I went back to advise
17 Mr. Koh -- to advise the detective that his attorney
18 was here and see if he wished to speak with him.
19 BY MR. ZINGER
20 Q. See if who wished
21 A. Mr. Koh.
22 Q. Okay. You had the attorney in the lobby
23 wanting to speak to the client correct
24 A. Yes.
135
Exhibit A -- 50
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Q. Why didnt you take Mr. Shim with you to
2 the interrogation room so that he could speak to his
3 client
4 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
5 THE COURT Sustained. That was just asked and
6 answered Counsel.
7 BY MR. ZINGER
8 Q. So you chose to leave Mr. Shim in the
9 lobby correct
10 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
11 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
12 THE WITNESS Yes.
13 BY MR. ZINGER
14 Q. And you are aware that if you took Mr. Shim
15 to the interrogation room he likely would have
16 halted the interrogation youre aware of that
17 correct
18 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
19 THE COURT Sustained.
20 BY MR. ZINGER
21 Q. Are you aware from your experience that
22 attorneys who come to the police station to speak to
23 their clients generally their intention is to halt
24 the police interrogaton of their client
136
Exhibit A -- 51
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Q. So it took you a couple minutes to get to
2 the interrogation room correct
3 A. Um-hmm.
4 Q. And -- thats a yes
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And when you got there the door was
7 closed
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And you knocked on the door
10 A. I did.
11 Q. Now prior to knocking on the door at the
12 interrogation room lets say 1240 had you ever
13 been to that interrogation room before that day or
14 that morning
15 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
16 THE COURT You mean during the course of the
17 interviews with your client
18 MR. ZINGER Yes.
19 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
20 THE WITNESS I dont believe I had been.
21 BY MR. ZINGER
22 Q. Certainly not noted in any of your reports
23 correct
24 A. No.
138Exhibit A -- 52
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 BY MR. ZINGER
2 Q. Did you go there
3 A. Im not understanding your question.
4 Q. Did you go to the interrogation room before
5 1250 p.m.
6 A. I dont believe I did.
7 Q. When you went to this interrogation room at
8 1250 you knocked on the door and Detective Graf
9 came out correct
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And the videotape was still going on
12 correct
13 A. I believe so.
14 Q. And you had a conversation with Detective
15 Graf correct
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And what did you tell him at -- was there
18 anyone else present during this conversation
19 A. No I dont believe so.
20 Q. Where did it occur right outside of the
21 interrogation room
22 A. Yeah right at the door.
23 Q. Was the door closed or open
24 A. I dont recall.
140
Exhibit A -- 53
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 BY MR. ZINGER
2 Q. You did tell him that In essence you
3 told Detective Graf the moment he opened the door and
4 you engaged in the conversation that Mr. Kohs
5 attorney Michael Shim was in the police station and
6 wanted to speak to his client Henry Koh
7 MS. KLEGMAN Objection leading.
8 THE COURT Thats leading again Mr. Zinger
9 but Ill allow it. Overruled.
10 Is that what you told him
11 THE WITNESS Yes. Not verbatim but yes I
12 told him that there was an attorney here to see him.
13 BY MR. ZINGER
14 Q. Michael Shim
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And you made it specific that he was there
17 to see Mr. Koh
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. There was no confusion on that subject
20 correct
21 A. I dont believe so.
22 Q. In fact thats the only thing you went to
23 the room for correct
24 A. Yes.
142
Exhibit A -- 54
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Q. Did you tell Detective Graf to stop the
2 interrogation
3 A. No.
4 Q. Why not
5 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
6 THE COURT Sustained.
7 BY MR. ZINGER
8 Q. Did Detective Graf ever tell you that after
9 you told him that an attorney for him was present in
10 the police station he was going to stop the
11 interrogation
12 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
13 THE COURT Overruled. Did he tell you that
14 THE WITNESS No.
15 BY MR. ZINGER
16 Q. He did tell you something though when you
17 told him Mr. Kohs attorney was there correct
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And in essence what he told you -- do you
20 remember what he told you
21 A. I dont verbatim or specifically. Yes I
22 remember the essence of what we discussed.
23 Q. What was--24THE COURT Which is what
143
Exhibit A -- 55
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 BY MR. ZINGER
2 Q. And in your opinion was that decision in
3 the course with what the law requires you to do as a
4 police officer in Illinois when an attorney comes
5 into the building
6 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
7 THE COURT Sustained. Im gonna have to make
8 that call Counsel. I am familiarwith the law.
9 BY MR. ZINGER
10 Q. So you went again back to the lobby
11 correct
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And while you were back at the lobby and
14 walking back to the lobby the interrogation
15 continues correct
16 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
17 THE COURT Hes not in the room Counsel.
18 BY MR. ZINGER
19 Q. Do you know if the interrogation continues
20 while you were going to the lobby
21 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
22 THE COURT Sustained.
23 BY MR. ZINGER
24 Q. Did you advise Mr. Koh when you came to the
145
Exhibit A -- 56
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 STATE OF ILLINOISSS
2 COUNTY OF C O O K
3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT - CRIMINAL DIVISION
4 SECOND MUNICIPAL DISTRICT
5 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATEOF ILLINOIS
6
Plaintiff7
vs. No. 09 CR 91518
HYUNGSEOK KOH9
Defendant.10
11 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS had at the hearing inthe above-entitled cause before the HONORABLE GARRITT
12 HOWARD Judge of said court on the 27th day of JuneA. D. 2011.
13
APPEARANCES14
HONORABLE ANITA M. ALVAREZ15 States Attorney of Cook County by
MS. MICHELE A. GEMSKIE16 MS. VICTORIA L. KLEGMAN
Assistant States Attorneys17 appeared on behalf of the People
18 MR. ELLIOT R. ZINGERMR. DANIEL T. FENSKE
19 MR. ANDREW W. VAILappeared on behalf of the Defendant.
20
21 ALSO PRESENT limo Son Korean interpreter
22
23 ANCA HRISCA CSR RPROfficial Court Reporter
24 CSR Licence No. 084-004682
Exhibit A -- 1 57
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 understand what was being said.
2 There was a -- to confuse matters further
3 there was a police officer -- I believe it was a
4 police officer -- who was acting as an interpreter at
5 times and as an interrogator at times and who made
6 what seemed to have been inaccurate translations of
7 what was being said by the detective conducting the
8 interrogation. So the overall effect was both that
9 the language problem introduced confusion into the
10 process and in addition it introduced another very
11 significant stress that increased the overall level
12 of stress under which Mr. Koh was operating.
13 Q. I believe you also mentioned that certain
14 interrogation techniques were used that also
15 increased the amount of stress is that correct
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How so
18 A. Well I refer to two levels of stress
19 induction. There are a group of techniques which
20 are ordinarily used in interrogating individuals by
21 Chicago area police that primarily come out of the
22 Reid organization and those techniques are
23 deliberately designed and specifically described
24 as intended to induce stress and tension in the
Exhibit A -- 48 58
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 consistent with what the interrogator had told him
2 and this is a very common phenomenon in individuals
3 with disturbed memories.
4 People want to have good memories. They
5 want to be able to remember so they -- if someone
6 says to them oh well heres what happened theyll
7 often adopt what was told to them as what happened
8 and theyll often lose track of where they got the
9 information from. Its called a source error in
10 memory.
11 So he may have been at the time he said--12he may have been having a memory in the sense that
13 he -- there was a memory -- a statement that the
14 interrogator said This is true he was trying to
15 fill in the gaps of his memory and he may at that
16 moment have believed that he was describing something
17 that indeed happened but the statement is totally
18 unreliable. Its based on what hes been convinced
19 of in the interrogation not based on anything that
20 he actually remembers from the time of the events.
21 Q. And I believe you testified earlier that
22 conducting the interrogation in English rather than
23 in Mr. Kohs -- primarily in English rather than
24 Mr. Kohs native language increased the stress on
Exhibit A -- 85 59
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Mr. Koh. Can you explain the basis for that
2 A. Yeah. It increased the stress in two ways.
3 That is anyone who is being interrogated or trying
4 to work in a language which theyre not entirely
5 familiarwith is under considerable stress just in
6 terms of trying to understand whats going on trying
7 to express ones self. Anyone whos learned a second
8 language has the experience of that kind of stress
9 from time to time.
10 The issue of language is further confused
11 because he had an interpreter or someone who was
12 acting as an interpreter during part of the
13 evaluation -- or during part of the interrogation
14 and the interpreter is -- appears to have been making
15 inaccurate translations of some of the things that
16 were said and this leads to a great deal of
17 confusion about whos saying what what the status
18 of what certain things are.
19 In particular theres a tremendous
20 confusion about the difference between whats being
21 translated back into English his human rights versus
22 legal rights. So his comprehension is almost
23 certainly impaired by having to have the interrogation
24 largely in English with a little bit of questionable
Exhibit A -- 86 60
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 translation thrown in.
2 Q. Your last statement regarding human rights
3 versus legal rights I think had to do with the
4 Miranda warnings is that correct
5 A. Thats correct.
6 Q. Now leaving it at simply language
7 difficulties how does having a mistranslation of
8 Miranda affect someones ability to voluntarily
9 respond to questions
10 A. If you dont understand what the Miranda
11 warnings or rights are because theyve been
12 translated wrong then you cant possibly voluntarily
13 agree to what has been translated to you. If it
14 isnt clear what the language of Miranda is agreeing
15 to -- agreeing or failing to agree to the translation
16 would seem to me to be meaningless.
17 Q. Now during your interview of Mr. Koh back
18 in December of 2010 -- thats when it happened
19 correct
20 A. Right.
21 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Koh a Korean
22 term that Im going to not pronounce correctly but
23 I believe its moo pie kwan did you discuss that
24 phrase with Mr. Koh
Exhibit A -- 87 61
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. Okay. I talked earlier about my sources
2 of knowledge of Korean culture and on the basis of
3 that one of the features of Korean culture is to be
4 relative -- more deferential to authority than
5 Americans normally are.
6 So on a cultural basis Mr. Koh would be
7 more likely than the average native-born American to
. attempt to be polite deferential cooperative even
9 in the context of an interrogation and less likely
10 for example to assert his legal rights in that
11 context.
12 Q. Now would Mr. Kohs cultural background
13 affect the particular choice of words he would use
14 when responding to a question from someone like a
15 police officer
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How so
18 A. That is rather than saying zio which
19 would be experienced as confronting and highly
20 negative to the police officer hed be more likely
21 to use words that are designed to be a little bit
22 evasive but polite saying things like maybe or
23 perhaps words that avoid confrontation with the
24 fact that he actually disagrees with the police
Exhibit A -- 91 62
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 officer.
2 Q. Now there were times however during the
3 interrogation were there not when Mr. Koh actually
4 gave a direct yes or no answer to his interrogating
5 officers is that correct
6 A. Thats correct.
7 Q. Now can you explain how thats consistent
8 with the testimony that you just gave
9 A. Yes. Its consistent in a couple of ways.
10 One is that this -- this use of a more polite more
11 Korean manner in the first place is most likely to
12 occur as stress increases. People who are under
13 stress will move back to earlier ways of functioning.
14 The other issue is as I said the mental
15 state that was associated with the diabetes and
16 ammonia disorder both come and go so that there
17 will be times during this interview where hes really
18 quite clear and quite with it and other times when
19 hes I believe quite out of it and not able to
20 follow whats going on and respond in a mature and
21 competent way.
22 Q. Now did you form an opinion in evaluating
23 Mr. Koh and the other evidence in this case as to
24 whether or not Mr. Kohs statements were the result
Exhibit A -- 92 63
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 STATE OF ILLINOISSS
2 COUNTY OF C O O K
3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT - CRIMINAL DIVISION
4 SECOND MUNICIPAL DISTRICT
5 THE PEOPLE OF THESTATE OF ILLINOIS
6
Plaintiff7 No. 09-CR-09151
VS.8
HYUNGSEOK KOH9
Defendant.10
11 MOTION TO SUPPRESS. STATEMENTS
12 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS of the motion had before
13 the Honorable GARRITT HOWARD Judge of said court
14 heard on the 2nd day of September 2011.
15 APPEARANCES
16 HON. ANITA M. ALVAREZStates Attorney of Cook County by
17 MS. MICHELE GEMSKIE andMS. VICTORIA KLEGMAN
18 Assistant States Attorneysappeared for the People
19
MR. ANDREW VAIL MR. DAN FENSKE20 MS. TERRI MASCHERIN MR. KYLE PALAZZOLO
and MR. ELLIOT ZINGER21 appeared for the Defendant.
22 Ms. Melissa J. ReardonOfficial Court Reporter
23 5600 Old Orchard RoadSkokie Illinois 60077
24 License No. 084-004256
1
Exhibit A -- 64
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 them that I was calling on behalf of Mr. Koh that
2 I represented him.
3 BY MR. VAIL
4 Q. After you finished your call with the
5 Northbrook Police Department what did you do next
6 A. Well I drove to the police station.
7 Q. Did you go directly to the police
8 station
9 A. I did.
10 Q. And when you arrived at the Northbrook
11 Police Station then what did you do
12 A. Well I entered the building and I
13 talked with the officer behind the glass told that
14 person who I was.
15 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
16 THE COURT Sustained. Just try to lay your
17 foundation as much as possible.
18 BY MR. VAIL
19 Q. Mr. Shim the person you talked to at the
20 police station did they identify themselves or
21 appear to be affiliated with the Northbrook Police
22 Department
23 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
24 THE COURT Thats two questions but Ill
8
Exhibit A -- 65
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
I allow it. Overruled. You may answer.
2 THE WITNESS When I walked in it was a
3 person behind the plate glass. He asked me why I
4 was there I assumed that that person was
5 associated with the department yes.
6 BY MR. VAIL
7 Q. And when he asked you why you were there
8 what did you tell him
9 A. I told him my name and I said I was here
10 for Mr. and Mrs. Koh.
11 Q. Did you give him a business card
12 A. I cant remember if I gave him a business
13 card at that time probably I did. Im not for
14 certain.
15 Q. And after you spoke
16 THE COURT Im sorry Counsel. I need this
17 First of all do you know approximately what time
18 this was that you were talking to this person
19 THE WITNESS Your Honor I probably got there
20 between 30 and 40 minutes after I made the phone
21 call. Would have been about 1230 1240.
22 THE COURT Was this person you were speaking
23 to in uniform
24 THE WITNESS I believe so.
Exhibit A -- 66
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 THE COURT Did you get the persons name
2 THE WITNESS I did not.
3 THE COURT Was it a male or a female
4 THE WITNESS I believe it was a male.
5 THE COURT Can you describe the person any
6 further
7 THE WITNESS No.
8 THE COURT All right. Continue.
9 MR. VAIL Thank you.
10 BY MR. VAIL
11 Q. After you spoke to that officer what did
12 you do next
13 A. Well I just waited.
14 Q. And why did you wait
15 A. Well nobody came and got me. I couldnt
16 go in.
17 Q. And where did you wait
18 A. In the lobby area.
19 Q. And did you wait in the lobby area the
20 entire time
21 A. I believe I did.
22 Q. How long did the police leave you waiting
23 in the lobby area before they came to you next
24 MS. LEGMAN Objection.
10
Exhibit A -- 67
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 THE COURT Poorly phrased question but Ill
2 allow it. You may answer.
3 THE WITNESS Approximately I would say 20
4 25 minutes. I just remember waiting for a long
5 time in the building.
6 BY MR. VAIL
7 Q. How did your wait in the lobby end
8 A. I believe a detective came out and I
9 think maybe at that time that detective asked me
10 for my card. And then I gave him my card and he
11 went back inside and I still stayed outside.
12 Q. And how much longer did you wait after
13 that person came out and saw you
14 A. Between five and ten minutes.
15 Q. And then what happened
16 A. And then I believe a detective came out
17 again for the second time and then brought me in.
18 Q. And where did he bring you
19 A. He brought me in through the door and to
20 the back where all the other detectives were.
21 Q. Approximately how long did it take for
22 you to go from the lobby area to the back where the
23 detective brought you
24 A. Less than a minute.
11
Exhibit A -- 68
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Q. When you got to the interrogation room
2 did you see Mr. Koh
3 A. I did.
4 Q. When you saw Mr. Koh in the interrogation
5 room visually how did he appear to you
6 A. He just looked very tired. He had an--7I guess they gave him a blanket to put over
8 himself. He seemed very cold just disoriented.
9 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
10 THE COURT Overruled.
11 MS. KLEGMAN Medical conclusion Judge.
12 MR. VAIL One moment Judge.
13 THE COURT You can cross on it.
14 BY MR. VAIL
15 Q. I want to bring you back to when you
16 first came to the police station and spoke to the
17 person at the front disk. Did you tell that person
18 that you were a lawyer there to see the Kohs or
19 Mr.
--20A. Oh yes yes.
21 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.
22 THE COURT Whats your objection
23 MS. KLEGMAN Hearsay.
24 THE COURT Overruled.
12
Exhibit A -- 69
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 police uniform or was in civilian clothes
2 A. I believe the person had on a police
3 uniform.
4 Q. Are you sure about that or--5A. Yeah I dont know.
6 Q. okay. But anyway you spoke to the
7 person man woman uniform or non-uniform behind
8 the glass correct
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You gave them information about who you
11 were and why you were there
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you see what that person did then
14 Did they make a phone call Did they leave and get
15 up and go somewhere Do you remember what
16 happened
17 A. I do not.
18 Q. Now you say that you waited
19 approximately youre saying today 20 to 25 minutes
20 before somebody came out
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Is that would you say a fair estimation
23 of how long you waited
24 A. As far as I can remember.
15
Exhibit A -- 70
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Q. Was he dressed in uniform
2 A. I believe he was dressed in uniform.
3 Q. Okay. Do you remember if it was a blue
4 uniform a white uniform white shirt
5 A. I believe it was white.
6 Q. And when you spoke to that person is
7 that the person you gave your business card to
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And again you identified who you were
10 why you were there
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. That person then left and went somewhere
13 A. Right.
14 Q. There was about five or ten minutes
15 before he came back and took you back to where
16 Mr. Koh was
17 A. I believe so.
18 Q. When you went back to where Mr. Koh was
19 were you taken into the room where he was seated
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And were you able to speak to him alone
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now you stated on direct-examination that
24 Mr. Koh looked disoriented. What do you mean by
17
Exhibit A -- 71
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 MS. GEMSKIE No further questions your
2 Honor.
3 THE COURT All right. Were going to take a
4 five-minute recess before the cross. Lets see if
5 we can limit the recess to five minutes.
6 Doctor feel free to stretch your legs. Do
7 not discuss your testimony with anyone during the
8 recess.
9 Recess taken.
10 THE COURT Counsel you may proceed with your
11 cross-examination.
12 MR. PALAZZOLO Thank you your Honor.
13 CROSS-EXAMINATION
14 BY
15 MR. PALAZZOLO
16 Q. Good afternoon Dr. Lourgos. How are
17 you
18 A. Good.
19 Q. Just to be clear youre not testifying
20 today that Mr. Koh actually understood the Miranda
21 warnings given to him on April 16th 2009 correct
22 A. No. That is what I am testifying to.
23 Q. That he had an actual understanding of
24 the rights
101
Exhibit A -- 72
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 A. He had the ability to understand his
2 Miranda rights at the time.
3 Q. He had the ability to understand
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Not that he actually did understand
6 MS. GEMSKIE Objection relevance.
7 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.
8 THE WITNESS My response is that he didnt
9 have any medical condition. He didnt have any
10 type of psychiatric condition that would have
11 impaired his ability to understand his Miranda
12 rights at the time.
13 BY MR. PALAZZOLO
14 Q. And so every time during your
15 examination your direct examination when you said
16 confusion you were referring to a clinical level
17 of confusion correct
18 A. A medical diagnosis.
19 Q. A medical diagnosis of confusion
20 A. Thats correct.
21 Q. What does that mean
22 A. Its a medical term. Confusion
23 delirium those are all confused medical states.
24 Q. Separate and apart from regular
102
Exhibit A --73
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 have impaired someones ability to understand
2 Miranda. So in all evaluations that forensic
3 psychiatrists do the only thing were experts in
4 is that area of our expertise. Many things go into
5 a confession that are non-psychiatric and
6 non-medical. We address the ones that are
7 specifically medical and psychiatric. Thats our
8 scope of expertise.
9 Q. So your report and your opinion today
10 doesnt consider a whole host of outside figures
11 such as stress language difficulties cultural
12 backgrounds interrogation techniques or things of
13 that nature correct
14 A. Stress is something -- out of all those
15 stress does come into play. The other ones are
16 beyond the scope of what we address.
17 Q. Going back to the morning of April 16th
18 2009 there was no mental status assessment done on
19 Mr. Koh that morning correct
20 A. I didnt see any no.
21 Q. The next mental status assessment was
22 done on April 17th more than 24 hours after the
23 interrogation correct
24 A. I dont have the exact time frame but it
105
Exhibit A -- 74
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 experiencing -- they describe the situation acutely
2 stressful. And when youre asking the specifics to
3 describe what was happening before and after they
4 have difficulty recalling the specific events
5 because in a situation like that its difficult to
6 actually form the memory.
7 Q. Is it fair to say that traumatic
8 incidents would make it more difficult to form
9 memories correct
10 A. Correct yes.
11 Q. Youre aware that Mr. Kohs native
12 language is Korean correct
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Were you aware in meeting Mr. Koh that
15 during his restaurant days his daughter was
16 actually the one who handled communication for him
17 A. No I didnt know that.
18 MS. GEMSKIE Assumes facts not in evidence.
19 THE COURT Overruled.
20 BY MR. PALAZZOLO
21 Q. You elected to conduct the entire
22 interview with Mr. Koh in Korean is that correct
23 A. Thats correct.
24 Q. Did you select the interpreter that was
108
Exhibit A -- 75
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 used in the interrogation or in the interview that
2 you had with him
3 A. We asked for a Korean interpreter.
4 Thats about it.
5 Q. And it wasnt the same Korean interpreter
6 that was used during Mr. Kohs interrogation is
7 that correct
8 A. It didnt look like the person on the
9 videotape.
10 Q. During your interview with Mr. Koh you
11 required all of his answers to be in Korean
12 correct
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. And even when he started to answer you in
15 English you stopped and made him answer in Korean
16 correct
17 A. Thats correct.
18 Q. Youre not offering an opinion today on
19 Mr. Kohs ability to understand English is that
20 correct
21 A. Thats correct.
22 Q. During your interview with Mr. Koh you
23 reviewed the Northbrook Police Departments
24 Statement of Miranda Rights form correct
109
Exhibit A -- 76
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
1 Mr. Koh he had been involved in this case for
2 nearly two years correct
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. He had been represented by counsel
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And he had been through several court
7 appearances where Miranda had been an issue
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. In watching the interrogation video of
10 Mr. Koh are you aware that most of the
11 interrogation if not all of it was done in
12 English
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And again youre not offering an
15 opinion here today on how well Mr. Koh understands
16 English
17 A. Thats correct.
18 MR. PALAZZOLO Could I have a moment your
19 Honor
20 THE COURT You certainly may.
21 BY MR. PALAZZOLO
22 Q. Dr. Lourgos are there specific clinical
23 criteria for the designation of confusion
24 A. Yes.
111
Exhibit A -- 77
Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.
SEP-3-2010 1450 FROM TO13128408788 P.2
KOREAN TRANSLATION NETWORK800 E. N.W. Highway Suite 731
Palatine 11160074
Tel. 847 705.4966 Fax 847-703-3850 a-Mail kortran1hotmail.com
Certificate of Translation
This is to certify that the translation of the documents attached herewith and listed
below isare correct and accurate. I undersigned Sungki Cha as the Director of the
Korean Translation Network who is highly qualified and professionally specialized in
Korean documents of legal commercial and technical fields and is competent in both
Korean and English to render such translation.
List of Documents
Suspect Interview-Hyeong Seok Koh
Subscribed and sworn before me
on this 6th day of July 2009
in the County of Cook State of Illinois Certified by Date
N tary Public Su ha
BRIAN HFRTEL
NOTPA PUBLIC STA1 F Ow ILLINOIS
p V CcmtA13SIONEXFIFIL.S
A1.15 oB. 2041
SEP-3-2010 1450 FROM T013128408788 P.3
Suspect Interview 100000305
Police P
Police2 P2
InterpreterI
Koh K
P Were just going to ask you a few questions. Were probably talk to you again after this. But before
we do that were going to read you your Miranda rights. OkKoh looks at the interpreter
0032 -0050
I 0J1-Z429--. zOS101I2. He will read... by human rights.
K Li WhatI QI Human rights.
K QI jaHuman rights
I xIo �$� I�1 v� 8N CW7112.. Right now... will explain.. will explain by reading.
K Okay.
P2 What is he asking
I What Miranda rights are and I told him were going to read to him his rights.
P Ok. Do you know what your rights are
I -- I Ji0I 4 Of Ail g Do you know what human rights you haveK I dont know.
P Okay. Im gonna read these to you and any of these you dont understand then you can just tell meokayK K nods okay.
0057 -0238
P You have the right to remain silent. Do you understand thatKI li3l 2I H.E. SI 01 401 5ULICf You have human rights not to say anything.
K Yes.
P Anything you say can be used against you In the court of law okK no response
P You have a right to talk to a lawyer and have him present with you during any questioning okK nods a little
P If you cant afford to hire a lawyer one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning If
you wish okP And understanding these rights do you wish to talk with usK nods a little
P Ok. You sign here. hands over the paper and the date.
K Can you ask... this basic... what this one Koh points to the paper to transfer Koh points to theinterpreting police
P Yes absolutely.
1
SEP-3-2010 1450 FROM TO13128408788 P.4
0138 0235
Koh signs the paper
I 0171 01 1 FoHE E1 45712R. This human rights... you dont have to talk.
K indistinct mumble
l i_il�i�X171��I Fs iAlX715.0 T 0f 7ig V _qW R1-R.01 71
AAF JOI-. Q A 01 -Ai.1Q Yes. Right now. What youre saying with us. Saying anything. Can
be used by law. Here. You have human rights... with the lawyer.
K I think its pastor
I Of L I R. L4 J.f tiQ Af Of LJ-7 Qg4 t Af No. Lawyer only. Not pastors. Or you
can... lawyers...
K Ate X18$WOf R. You dont need a lawyer.
I nods OI. dRiF I AIF alO1TAjig.. Yes. Please write the date and the time.
K looks at the police officer This happens earlymorning... 340...
P No youre gonna-putthe date right now. The date and time right now1 7 Al136 1wr �1. Ll c1. Its 736
0236 0306
hands over the paper
P My name is detective and this Is detective ok And were with the Northbrook police.
This gentleman I believe youve already been introduced to his name is Phil. Hes gonna help in... youknow help you talk with us. If there is anything you dont understand in English juststop me and wellhave Phil interpret for you ok Well let you use the bathroom coffee or water is there anything else
you needed
2
SEP-3-2010 1450 FROM TO13128408788 P.5
Suspect Interview 3 0000 2131 end
0015 0315
P.M. we just started a new tape. Ok. It is now 1235. We just placed a new tape in there ok I want
you to... See if you can turn a little bit. I want you to switch chairs with me here ok You sit here okKoh switches chairs with P We just got you a glass of water right Youve got everything you need
P Hyeong Seok.
K Yea.
P Were right there. Were right there for the whole truth to come out ok Were right there. And I
think youre ready to tell us the whole truth now. I think youre ready to tell us what happened. Youknow what happened last night ok And we know what happened last night Hyeong Seok. We know.We gathered all the evidence at the station ok I know that you went and washed your hands ok I
know you washed your hands at your house after you touched... Yea. I know all that stuff ok But what
I need to know now is what really happened ok I need to know this.
I of Xi AI J FOIIAi... fc71 in your house... you washed your hands...
P2 Look we dont think youre a bad person.
1 1 I Lf L Affol 24 4J �__ J-HR. We dont think youre a bad person.
P2 We wouldnt be spending all this time here with you if we thought you were a bad person.
I L. A g01 Efl o $ 01 E4 Al jF1... If we think you were a bad person this time...
P You need to tell the whole truth now And thats what were going to do now. Were gonna tell what
really happened for Paul. Were gonna do this for Paul right now. Were gonna say exactly what
happened ok And I want you to be honest. Hyeong Seok are you ready to tell me the whole storyK Absolutely.
P Areyou ready to tell me the whole storyK nods yes.P Are you ready to tell me the whole story Honestly.
K keeps nodding yes its what I-
P Release and let yourself go okI cuts in and says2AjIQ. Release.P Release yourself dont be 200 and say what happened with Paul. We need to know for
everyones sake what happened to Paul okK Just give me a second and Im gonna try to do some memory of what youre going to... whats going
on-PHyeong Seok you know what.. you know what happened. Hyeong Seok listen. You dont needto-Listen.This was a traumatic incident that happened last night with your son ok And you would
remember what happened. And I want you to be honest now. Idont want you to... Right now youre
delaying. Youre trying to delay me in telling me what happened. You know EXACTLY what happenedlast night right now in your head. But youre trying to change that. Youre trying to think Im not sure if
I wanna... if I wanna... if I want this to be... done with. It needs to be done with now ok And this is the
time. I like you to... Were sitting here ok We dont- Look were not judging you as being a bad personor a good person. Thats not what were here for. Were here to find out what happened for the sake of
3
SEP-3-2010 1451 FROM TO13128408788 P.6
Paul ok So that Paul... Paul can just... be free... of what happened In this incident ok And only you can
do that because everyone else is telling us stuff right now so lets get to it.
0310 -05-.00
P You wake up its 1 oclock in the morning. Pauls not in his bedroom. Youre angry. Right Am I
correct Is this all correct Ok so you go downstairs and Pauls not in the house. You tell your wife that
Pauls not in the houseK no response- doesnt understand the questionP Remember we talked to your wife.
K my wife Yea
P Hyeong Seok how come your wife can remember but you cant now Be honest. You do this that
means youre lying to us.
K no no
P And you already lied to us about a few things like I told you.
K no no
P We know more than you think we know okK nodsP So after you go down and y6u find out that hes not there did you tell your wife that hes not there
K long pause with no response looks at I
P Did you call him
I Dkaot kEij � cF a W R 01.Q $k Ofl 0 P.M.. Did you tell your wife that
Paul was not there Did you tell her That Paul is not In the houseP. Did you call him
IOjQdid you call herK I think so...
P. Did you call him on the phoneK looks at I no responseP Ok. You cant remember if you called him on the phone. Did you go in the car and go look for himK no reponse
P Hyeong Seok come on. You were -
K I think this is uh... I think this is uh... I look at the car. I think so.
P OK but did you get in the car and drive
l tFtllJ Oj7f 11 Lf tOjsDid you go into the car and come outP .. to go look for him
IXjLiaj LKt$Ll7f419 Did you go out into the carKme confusedI LFO1$ 21L7FOjg Did you go out or notK 01Lf 7-f A Oj-Cl ... dont think I went out.
I He doesnt think he...
P Hyeong Seok youre telling stories now. Youre not telling me the truth.K No Im telling you the truth.
P No no no. Youre not. You would know if youve got In the car and went and looked for him. And Im
going to be able to tell you if you went and looked in the car because Im getting video right now fromall the street corners and the businesses to see if your car went by at that time or left your house okWe have video ok So Im gonna know if you got into that car. Did you get into your car and go look for
him
4
SEP-3-2010 1451 FROM 7013128408788 P.7
K no response
0500 0735
P Ok. Afwhat time does he come home What time does Paul come homeK I cant remember.
P What time about what time What time do you think Paul came homeK I think it was... I dont know. Around... 1P. How long after you woke up After you woke up I know he wasnt there. How much longer did it taketil he came homeK I dont know.
P Come on. Half hour 15 minutes 20 minutes hour How long were you awake waiting forhim to
come home
IDFz1AI1Al 11-fOllnU-WMO0lVim1Al tJ0t011 U011 tj --1. -a C11 g Y-7F
ej Oil 91AI0II 0I2 Mr.Koh you woke up at 130 didnt you You woke up at 130 and you thought
Paul wasnt there. But when did Paul come homeK
Icant remember.
I 01 7j ..71 71 QJ 01 0FLF2 OFx-Mj J Of L2... How can you not remember that You woke upand..
P Approximately. Approximately. Little time. Come on. How long How long We know. We know.Hyeong Seok. We know. I want you to tell me. I know. I know.
I want you to tell me.K Around 2P Around 2 oclock
K 2 oclock
P When he came in did you guys get Into an argumentK no....
P Did you argue where were you What did you say to himWhen he came In the house what did
you say to himK I didnt say anything.
P What happened What happened when he came in the house Hyeong SeokK I dont know.
P What happened Were you angry that he was out late and he came home at 2 oclock and you had
to work the next day at 930K I didnt uh... remember saying...
P Hyeong Soek you just told mePaul came home at 2 oclock.K Around yea.
P Around 2 oclock And you remember him Did he come in the front door Which door did he comein when he came into the houseK Nobody say hes coming to... front
P Did he come in the front door last nightK Yea.
P What door did he come in last night You tell me. Which doorK Front.
P He came in the front door Did he have the key Was It locked Or was it unlocked
K Yes he got the key.
P Were you waiting at the door when he came homeK no response
5
SEP-3-2010 1451 FROM 701312228408788 P.8
P Did you hear him coming homeK I cant... I cant see.
P Where were you standing when he came home last night
K I dont know.
P Were you in th kitchen Were you in the living roomWhat room were you in when Paul came
home last night
K I think I was sleeping at that time. I cant remember... 718P Hyeong Seok. We know. And now youre lying to us again.
K No... I...
P Hyeong Seok.
K Yea
P Where were you when he came into the door You were angry that he was out. You were angry.
Where was heK no response
0735 0900
P Hyeong Seok where was he When you... Whereewere you when he came into the front door Where
were you when Hyeong Seok came in the door
I $.Y- N Oil 1t$ OfXJMl7� 01 Cl 2 OigWhen Paul came home where were youP Im sorry when Paul came In the door Where were youK I think its uh... front Its uh... dining living roomP You were in the hallway. Were you by the door
IOfXjAl 7h1011 V11 Ols0CIOf jOj2. Were you at Where were youK I think Its uh... up there up .. up there...
P Ok. And what did he sayP2 dining roomK The dining room. Yea.
P Dining room You were in the dining room When he came homeK
Ithink so.
P Ok. Were you sitting down or standing upK I dont know.
P Ok. See. You dont remember. You remember now. Come on. You were angry that he was out. You
were angry that he just came home at 2 oclock and we had to work at 730. You would know where he
were because when he came in you probably told Paul Where were you You have to work
tomorrow. Did you tell Paul that when he came in What did you tell him when he came in Hyeong
Seok what did you say to himK I didnt talk to... 840P What happened then Did he walk In and say something to you What did he say to you when he
came in the door
K shrugsP What did he say Hyeong Seok Come on. What did he say to you What did Paul say
09001025K He didnt say to me... I cant remember... Honestly.
P Were you angry When he walked in the door
l 00l R--IIIJ 34V9 0j. Were you angry when he came homeP Were you angry when he came in the door Hyeong Seok
6
SEP-3-2010 1452 FROM TO13128408788 P.9
K no reponse looks at the doorP Hyeong Seok I want you to look at me. You cant look at me because when you... when you startthinking and trying to decide what youre gonna say you look away. I want you to be honest with me.
Do this for Paul Do this. Do this forPaul and tell us the truth. He walked in the door. What happenedwhen he walked in the dror Did-y-bu guys get into an argument Did gourget mad at him that he
wasnt... homeDid you guys get into an altercation Did he push you Did you push himDid he come
after you What happened You need to tell us in your words what happened. What happened when
he walked in the door Hyeong Seok What happenedP2 We think it was all just an accident. We dont think you would do something on purpose.P Tell us what happened.
K confused I cant remember that one. So I can say nothing.
P What happened then What happened Hyeong SeokK I dont know.
P. Did he come after you Did he have a knife Did he grab a knife and come after youK No.
P Did he come after you with a knife Hyeong Seok come on. He came after you with a knife didnt
he Did he come after you with a knife
10251112
I O X1MI JEi1c fag v OFziAItJHI c VOf2 Did he give you the knife Did Paul
give you the knife
P speaking at the same time Did you have the knife Did you go after him with the knife
K I dont know.P. Hyeong Seok who had the knife
K I dont know.
P Who had the knife Hyeong Seok It was either you or him. Paul had the knife or you had the knife.
Who had the knife
K I dont know.P Who had it Hyeong SeokK I cantremember-PHow did he get the knife Did you guys argue in the kitchen Did you guys argue in the kitchen Wasthere argument in the kitchen
K hits his headP2 Were you arguing about the contract
P Hyeong Seok was it arguing about the contract That he broke the contract
K No.
P Did you.. 1055 that he was out Was he doing was he smoking marijuana last night Was Paul
smoking marijuana last night Hyeong SeokK No.
P Hyeong Seok was he sitting- come on.K shakes his head I dont... I dont...
P. Did you ask him if he wasK I dont know...
P Did you ask himK No...
1112 -1247
7
SEP-3-2010 1452 FROM 7013128408788 P.10
Did 61 a4 he rmake $ Pap �I
P Come on. Were almost there. rsG�Taie S �099E0- rle VK Yea. I think so.
rj��i���P Did you ask himAnd what did he say Rid he tell you yes or noK No. no.
l �BHtl Cf� .JOjHe said he doesnt smoke cigarette
P When you asked him if he was smoking marijuana what did he tell youK No he didnt say anything...
I iay Cf_1112. That he said yesP Did you ask him that
I -2OJFOj9 Did you ask him
K I think so. I asked J tfiIF JAN Lk...Did you do it with friends again... No... I think so...
P So you asked him if he was smoking marijuana
K Yea.
PYesK I think No.
P Yes or noK No.
I101 OAEL4.i F Of JOLt1... Did you ask him or not...
P speaking simultaneously Did you -
K Yes. I asked him.
P You asked him but he said noK Yea I think so.
POk. And then what happened Did you guys get into an argument Did you -did he grab you Did you
grab himWhat happenedK WhatP Come on. Hyeong Seok You KNOW what happened. You KNOW what happened. You KNOW what
happened. You got into an altercation and that happened to your son. But I gotta know how it
happened. I gotta know did he attack you Or did you go after him in anger I dont think you would do
that In anger. I think... maybe he had a knife. Did he have a knife Did you take the knife away from himWhat happened Tell me now what happened. Hyeong Seok I know you did it.
K I did it
P I know you did. I know you did. I know you did.
K I did itI Oh myP Yes. You did it Hyeong Seok. And . know that. I need to know why you did it. Was it in defense Or
was it In... that you...
I9 R Oj2. Did you do it by self-defense
P Hyeong Seok Tell me why.K I think so yea. maybe.
I EJ Vjk IOj2. Do it by self-defenseP Hyeong Seok Tell me how it happened.
I Speaking simultaneously He said It was in defense. He said it was in defense.
P Speaking simultaneously I know you did it. You did itl
K I did itI
8
SEP-3-2010 1452 FROM TO13128408788 P.11
P Yes. Didnt you
is 761 Sfo-rlk 0jR. You did It by self-defense.
P speaking simultaneously You tell me. Did you do it Hyeong SeokK I
think its...
P Did you do it
Kl think its...
P Did you do it
K Yea.
PYesK I think so.
P Why did you do itK because is uh...
P Why Tell us why you did it.K Before...
1247 1450
P Tell mewhy you did it Hyeong Seok.
K Weeks ago...
P Yea. Weeks agoK he... golf...
P He took a golf club
K that... is... swings his handsP he hit you with a golf club
KYea.
P So when he came in did you already have the knife in your hand in case he hit you Or did you go get
the knife
K No.
P How did you get the knife
K I dont know.
P Tell me how you got the knife. I mean did you go grab itK Maybe... grab It
P Who grabbed it You grabbed itK I grabbed it Or maybeP You tell me. Not maybe. Come on Hyeong Seok. Did you grab the knife Did you grab the knife
K. Maybe I didnt. 1320P Hyeong Seok. Did you grab the knife Did he come after you Was he trying to hit youI 14M-7 94... R tl Cf -1.0O1 g Did Paul say... like... he will hit youP Come on. Hyeong Seok. What happened What happened Not
Ithink. Not
Ithink. Tell us what
happened.
K Yes hes very...
P So when he came in the door did you yell at himAnd he got angry Did he come after youI0jWl 9.. iIXI z 94... Otj 01R When he came in did you scream and... scolded himK No.
I IgMt EQ.g ��7f LI7�1� To Paul Because Paul was angry...
P speaking simultaneously Hyeong Seok what happened Tell us what happenedl Tell us what
happened when he came in the door. Come on.
9
SEP-3-2010 1453 FROMTO13128408788 P.12
K. Hes uh...
P He comes in the door. Youre upstairs in the living room.
K When I... I dont know... This one is... Why you Is coming late yesterday And then hes gonnabe...maybe pushing something like that... is happened...
P Did he push youK Yea I think so.
P. And where did he push you at Where were you standing when he pushed youK I said... laying down something...
P He pushed you and felt... make you fall downK Fall down. And then Im scared yea.
P Where did this happen Where did he push you when you fell down WhereK I think its chest ... got uh... yea.
P Ok. and where did you fall down Which room Which room were you in when he pushed youK no response looks confused
I 0j 1.0 2FINI QI91O1.2 Which room were you inP Which room were you In Hyeong SeokK no response
llg.15-17t OtziAl I %I12lOf 8. Paul pushed you.P Which room were you in when he pushed you Were you in the hallway Were you upstairs
K hallway I think its uh...
P speaking simultaneously Were you in the dining roomK hallway. Hallway. hallway. Dining room kind of... stuff yea.P hallway Did you have the knife on you alreadyK No.
P Where did you have the knife
K No.
P Where did you have the knife at
14501700P Where didyou-KNobody Is kitchen there...
P Did you go grab the knife from the kitchen Or did you have the knife when he came homeK No. I dont think so.
P You didnt have the knife
K No.
P When he came home Did you guys- after he pushed you downK speaking simultaneously yea I think so.
P Did you run in the kitchen
K speaking simultaneously maybe.
P Not maybe. What happened Hyeong SeokK Yes.
P What happened I think thats what happened. Did he push you down and you ran and grabbed the
knife
K 2O...Oh LordP Hyeong Seok. Tell us what happened. No more I think Just tell us how it happened so we can... be
done with Paul ok We can do this for Paul ok Maybe this was an accident. Maybe it wasnt. I dont
10
SEP-3-2010 1453 FROM TO131284087BB P.13
know. But thats what you have to tell me. YOU have to tell me. Was it an accident I know you did it. I
already know you did it. But I need to know how it happened. So tell us how it happened.K Thats why... he pushing me... and then maybe... throw this... floor...
P He threw you on the floor
K Yea.
P And which room did he throw you on the floor You would remember Hyeong Seok.
K over there. Right over there.P Right by the door Did you meet him by the doorKYea.
P Was the door open or did the door get closed
K confusedP Ok. We got it. Its ok. So he pushes you down on the ground. You fall down. What happens nextDoes- where does- Do you run to the kitchen Do you get up and run to the kitchen Or do you -
K not that time. But... Its uh... I dont know.
P Ok then what happens after he pushed you down What happened Did he jump on top of you Did
he hit youK I think so. I think so.
P Not I think so. Tell us what happened.
K nods yea.P You know what happened.
K Yea.
P Tell us what happened. He pushed you down. in your own words. Your words. He pushed you down.
Then what happenedK And then its uh... hes something... is uh.. chest push It In.
P He pushed you on your chest
K And then make her fall down. And then -A rf�ncicG c� Cey i t.1n fYla74 n /c
P Throws you downK Yea. And then... I think its uh... ��4 t/51 Tu2 St�D/foNPand then what happened
K I dont know.
P speaking simultaneously then what happenedK No thinking its uh... I dont know... grabbed the knife Or something like that
P speaking simultaneously Did you go grab the knife
K I dont know.
P speaking simultaneously or did he grab the knife
K I dont know.
P Hyeong Seok you know who grabbed the knife. Come on.
I speaking simultaneously T 7f JXJ US zjOjgWho grabbed the knife first
P You know who grabbed the knife. Did you grab it or did he grab it Did you get scared
K I didnt...
P Were you afraid that he pushed you down. So youregonna-I71 71 NI 5ia You were there right
K Yea I think so.
P And where was the knife sitting
17001825KWho-11
SEP-3-2018 1453 FROM TO13128408788 P.14
P Where was the knife Was it in the drawer In the kitchenware- in the drawer Or on top Where was
the knife sitting
I Of Of ElaOf Al jfOf2 Where was the knife In the drawer
K I think its... 7171 $1X1 VXlI It was... It was...
P In the knifeholder
I Yea.
K Yea.
P You have it outside the drawer So you just grab it How did you grab it Did you went in and grab
the knife
I speaking simultaneously pd1Q Can you hold/grab itK looking at the interpreter yea yea.is He said you can just grab it.
P Ok so you grabbed the knife And then where was Paul when you grabbed the knife Where was
Paul at Where was Paul standing Did Paul come after youK Yea. Yea. Yea.
P He came after youK Yea. Yea.
P And what did you do What did you do with the knife Did you poke Paul with it at all Did you poke
himDid you cut him What did you doK speaking simultaneously No. No. No.
P What did you doK I dont know.
P Did you poke himK Dont coming...P Dont come at meK like this way Maybe swingP You swung the wife at himWhat did he do when you swung the knife at himK I dont know.
P What did you do Hyeong Seok What did you do Come on. Youre right there. Tell us exactly what
happened. You swung the knife at him and then what happenedK no response
P What happened then You swung the knife at him. Did he come after you Did he stop or what
knock on the door
P one second. P leaves the room
1825 2010
I -10-7F 7 �I OFXJM.IjjEJf -I7II V012 Did Paul like... do that... to you like that
K. Yes So one time. With the a1... golf club
P2 poked you with a golf club
K Yea.
P comes back in the roomP Ok so. So. So. Did you poke him with a knife Did you hit himwith a chest
K no response
12
SEP-3-2010 1454 FROM TO13128408788 P.15
P Hyeong Seok come on. claps Right now. Lets be done. Hurry up. BestHow did it happen Did
you grab him and then when you... when you went him on like this did you cut his throat When you
swung the knife
KYea.
P and you cut his neck Did you then grab himHow did you cut the restof his neck Did you have himDid you get him in a headlock and go like this Yes or no
I.JOfAj Of V 71J mii j210J.Q You were holding him from the back like this
K No.
I f Pr. U 4 2H... V... a7Ci -Zt%1OJQ. 19�7f... k2 LJJJ Gj B. 1I .. When you were
fighting... why... the knife... you pulled first. Paul... he was bigger than you.
K Oh yea.
I oitJ 3.ai.... Q1 OJ VA ut 4 OJ 741 9t0JR Hes big but how did you cut the first
timeK I dont know.
P Did you cut his throat
K Maybe its uh... maybe.. this is uh...
P Not maybe. What happenedP2 Not maybeK. Maybe... grab it and maybe... used it like that.
P so you grabbed him around the chest Or around the neck How did you grab him Around the chest
K Around... neck...
P was he in front And then you went like this and cut his neck Is that what you did Did you cut his
neck
K But Im not clear that my mind...
P Hyeong Seok did you- did you- Is that what happenedK nodsP Did you cut his neck
K nodsP Ok. Did you poke him in the chest at all Did you like this for him to get awayK No... I dont know
2010 2131 endknock on the door
Unknown person This is Mr.Shim.
P You his attorney
S Yea.
P Oh come on in. Were currently being video taped. Its oh... Weve done an interview. Urn... and uh...
Mr. Seok is... Hyeong Seok is telling us what happened in the incident. Urn... Looks like there was an
altercation -
K But I cannot remember clearly.
P He just told us that he waited- His son stayed out late came home late. And um... an altercation
ensued. His son pushed him to the ground and he went Into the kitchen took a knife that was on the
side and got Into a fight. He swung the knife at him He said he grabbed his son around the back and he
cut his throat. And were just trying to find out the... other basics that incidents... of what had happened.
S I want everything stopped ok And I want to talk to him alone.
13