2011-12-13 rothstein scott pm
TRANSCRIPT
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 281
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 17TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NO: 09-062943 07
RAZORBACK FUNDING, LLC, et al,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN, et al,
Defendants. ________________________________/
DAY 2 - AFTERNOON SESSION
DEPOSITION OF SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN
DATE TAKEN: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 TIME: 12:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. PLACE: 99 N.E. Fourth Street, Miami, FL
Taken on Behalf of Razorback
Examination of the witness taken before:
Terri Wright United Reporting, Inc. 1218 Southeast Third Avenue Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33316 (954)525-2221
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 282
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 17TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND
2 FOR BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NO: 09-062943 07
3
4 EDWARD J. MORSE, CAROL A. MORSE, and MORSE OPERATIONS, INC.,
5 Plaintiffs,
6vs.
7SCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN, et al,
8 Defendants.
9 ________________________________/
10 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
11 FORT LAUDERDALE DIVISION
12AMY ADAMS, ET AL, PLAINTIFF VS. SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, ET AL.
13 CASE NO: 0:11-CV-61688-JIC/LSS
14Case No: 10-03767 RBR STETTIN VS. GIBRALTAR PRIVATE
15 BANK & TRUST CO.
16Case No: 10-03802-RBR STETTIN VS. CENTURION STRUCTURED
17 GROWTH LLC, ET AL.
18Case No: 11-02288-RBR STETTIN VS. FIDELITY CHARITABLE
19 GIFT FUND
20Case No: 11-02368-RBR STETTIN VS. TD BANK, N.A.
21
22 Case No: 11-02473-RBR STETTIN VS. REGENT CAPITAL PARTNERS, LLC ET AL
23Case No: 11-02604-RBR STETTIN VS. MAPLE LEAF DRILLING
24 PARTNERS, ET AL
25 Case No: 11-02605-RBR STETTIN VS. DON KING PRODUCTIONS,
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 283
1 APPEARANCES FOR RAZORBACK:
2 WILLIAM R. SCHERER, ESQUIRE REID COCALIS, ESQUIRE
3 IVAN KOPAS, ESQUIRE CONRAD & SCHERER, LLP
4
5 ADAM MOSKOWITZ, ESQUIRE KOZYAK, TROPIN & THROCKMORTON, P.A.
6
7 ************
8 MARC S. NURIK, ESQUIRE Appearing on behalf of SCOTT ROTHSTEIN.
9
10 CHARLES L. LICHTMAN, ESQUIRE BERGER SINGERMAN
11 Appearing on behalf of the Chapter 11 Trustee, Herbert Stettin.
12
13 HARVEY SERBLOWSKY, ESQUIRE Appearing on behalf of Platinum & Centurion Funds.
14
15 SUSAN E. TRENCH, ESQUIRE GOLDSTEIN, TANEN & TRENCH, P.A.
16 Appearing on behalf of Platinum and Centurion.
17 MICHAEL GOLDBERG, ESQUIRE
18 AKERMAN SENTERFITT Appearing on behalf of Official Committee of
19 Unsecured Creditors.
20 THERESA M.B. VAN VLIET, ESQUIRE
21 JOHN H. GENOVESE, ESQUIRE Appearing on behalf of the Trustee.
22
23 CARAN L. ROTHCHILD, ESQUIRE GREENBERG TRAURIG
24 Appearing on behalf of TD Bank, N.A.
25
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 284
1 MARY BARZEE FLORES, ESQUIRE MATTHEW DATES, ESQUIRE
2 STEARNS WEAVER Appearing on behalf of Gibraltar Bank.
3
4 MICHAEL SCHLESINGER, ESQUIRE SCHLESINGER & COTZEN
5 Appearing on behalf of Frank Spinosa.
6 CHRISTOPHER G. BERGA, ESQUIRE
7 LYDECKER DIAZ, LLC Appearing on behalf of Szfranski.
8
9 RAMON A. RASCO, ESQUIRE PODHURST ORSECK
10 Appearing on behalf of Frank Preve.
11 TUCKER CRAIG, ESQUIRE
12 BILLING, COCHRAN, LYLES, MAURO & RAMSEY, P.A. Appearing on behalf of Rosanne Caretsky.
13
14 DAVID C. CIMO, ESQUIRE GENOVESE JOBLOVE & BATTISTA
15 Appearing on behalf of the Trustee.
16 ALEX HOFRICHTER, ESQUIRE
17 LAW OFFICES OF ALEX HOFRICHTER, P.A. Appearing on behalf of Federal Insurance Company.
18
19 JOHN MULLIN, ESQUIRE GEORGE WALKER, ESQUIRE
20 TRIPP SCOTT Appearing on behalf of Morses.
21
22 JESUS SUAREZ, ESQUIRE Appearing on behalf of the Trustee.
23
24 SCOTT SCHMOOKLER, ESQUIRE Appearing on behalf of RLI Insurance, Columbia
25 Insurance and Zurich Insurance.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 285
1 CASEY CUSICK, ESQUIRE Appearing on behalf of Emess Capital, LLC.
2 JAMES A. BLACK, JR., ESQUIRE
3 Appearing on behalf of St. Paul Fire & Marine.
4 BART HOUSTON, ESQUIRE Appearing on behalf of Levinson, Pearson &
5 Associates, Roger Stone and Watch U-Want, Inc.
6 LAWRENCE LAVECCHIO, ESQUIRE
7 Appearing on behalf of the U.S. government.
8 JACK SIEGAL, ESQUIRE
9 Appearing on behalf of Fepict, MS Group.
10 ROBERTA M. DEUTSCH, ESQUIRE
11 THE LAW OFFICE OF ROBERTA M. DEUTSCH Appearing on behalf of Carol Morse.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 286
1 I N D E X
2
3
4 EXAMINATION INDEX
5 PAGESCOTT W. ROTHSTEIN
6 CONTINUED DIRECT BY MR. SCHERER 287
7 DIRECT BY MR. MR. LICHTMAN 411
8
9
10 EXHIBIT INDEX
11 PAGEEXHIBITS
12 Exhibit No. 46. 325
13 Exhibit No. 47. 337 Exhibit No. 48 350
14 Exhibit No. 49. 358 Exhibit No. 50. 366
15 Exhibit No. 51. 372 Exhibit No. 52. 375
16 Exhibit No. 53. 377 Exhibit No. 54. 381
17 Exhibit No. 55. 385 Exhibit No. 56. 387
18 Exhibit No. 57. 392 Exhibit No. 58. 393
19 Exhibit No. 59. 394 Exhibit No. 60. 398
20 Exhibit No. 61. 400 Exhibit No. 62. 406
21 Exhibit No. 63. 408
22
23
24
25
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 287
1 CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. SCHERER:
3 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Rothstein.
4 A Good afternoon.
5 Q You know you're still under oath, right?
6 A I do, sir.
7 Q Okay. I know that one of the charities that you
8 supported with other people's money as you mentioned was
9 the Boys and Girls Club of Fort Lauderdale.
10 A That's correct.
11 Q And you were pretty active there at auctions and
12 things like that?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And do you know who was on the board of
15 directors kind of running that thing, that couple of
16 fellows that were involved in this Ponzi as investors?
17 MR. SCHLESINGER: Object to form; lack of
18 foundation.
19 MR. SCHERER: I'm just laying a foundation,
20 Counsel. I'll do that.
21 BY MR. SCHERER:
22 Q Any of the board involved in this Ponzi scheme
23 at all?
24 A I believe that they were. I was actually on the
25 board with them. Ted Morse was on the board, Doug
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 288
1 Von Allmen sat on the board, Linda Von Allmen sat on the
2 board. If I saw a list of the Board I could tell you who
3 was and who wasn't.
4 Q Did Ted know that Mr. Von Allmen was investing
5 in the Ponzi?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Now, did Mr. Von Allmen know that Ted was
8 investing in the Ponzi?
9 A I don't actually know. I believe that he did
10 based upon conversations that we all had, but I'm not
11 certain.
12 Q Do you have any memory of any conversations
13 where they were together and talked about it?
14 A Actually, yes. There was a Boys and Girls Club
15 function that we were at. And I can't remember -- I
16 don't remember which function it was, but Ted was bidding
17 for something and Doug and I were kind of just standing
18 off to the side watching.
19 I think there may actually be a picture from
20 this event of us kind of standing there watching Ted. It
21 may be in all the photos that we have. And Ted was going
22 crazy, as he and I tended to do when we were bidding.
23 And Doug made a comment to me about how much he was
24 bidding on this particular item. And my response was,
25 well, he's making a lot of money with us on the
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 289
1 investments, so he's got it to spend.
2 Q Do you know whether -- did Ted ever mention to
3 you any conversations that he might have had with Doug
4 about investment in the Ponzi scheme?
5 A No, he did not.
6 Q Let me show you what we already marked. Let me
7 go ahead and remark it as our next one. It's an
8 e-mail --
9 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 45, TD/Razor 1848, 1849.
10 BY MR. SCHERER:
11 Q I think we talked about that e-mail this
12 morning, and it's an e-mail about a show on December
13 17th, '08; correct?
14 A Yes.
15 Q We were trying to analyze that on the basis of
16 your testimony this morning about how to detect an e-mail
17 that may have been forged as opposed to a real one.
18 A Sure.
19 Q Can you analyze that for us and tell us whether
20 you think that's a real one or a forged one? We were
21 having a little difficulty with that one.
22 A No, this is a real e-mail.
23 Q Okay. And that's an e-mail where the show and
24 how to do it was laid out between Caretsky and
25 Kerstetter?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 290
1 A In the beginning of this, I'm not even involved
2 in this. Until after the fact I don't have no way of
3 knowing this was even going on. And they had to have,
4 this is not an assumption, they had to have told the
5 people in Deerfield Beach what to do because when I got
6 there, they did it.
7 Q Do you remember how come you went to Deerfield
8 instead of Weston?
9 A Yes. It was a last minute change of plans. I
10 believe that the person I was taking up there was Jack
11 Simony, one of the people that worked for the New York
12 hedge funds. And he had gotten a call while we were
13 together to him telling him that instead of going to the
14 branch we normally go to, to ask me to take him to a
15 different branch.
16 Q As a precaution to make sure you weren't --
17 A Yes. Was not doing what I was doing, yes.
18 Q Okay. As a part of a due diligence security
19 investigation, I guess; right?
20 A Yes.
21 Q How many shows did you take Mr. Simony or
22 anybody at the fund that would be Platinum and Centurion
23 Level 3 to; do you recall?
24 A I don't recall the specific number.
25 Q Multiple numbers?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 291
1 A Sure.
2 Q They filed a lawsuit against TD and have set out
3 in that lawsuit a number of times that you provided them
4 false balances. Have you ever seen that, that lawsuit?
5 A The actual lawsuit, I don't think I actually
6 did.
7 Q There was from memory, several, five, six
8 maybe. Does that sound about right?
9 A Five, six visits?
10 Q Yes.
11 A Yeah, I would think there would be at least that
12 many.
13 Q There was one that they did in the beginning
14 that caused you some trouble, according to the e-mails.
15 Do you recall that, where they apparently went to TD
16 unannounced or something and you got upset on the e-mail
17 chain about, don't go there anymore, you caused me
18 problems with TD; does that ring a bell?
19 A Yeah. You'd have to show me the e-mail. There
20 were two different circumstances: One was someone poking
21 around at TD Bank elsewhere attempting to obtain account
22 balances. That was one situation.
23 Q That would be Chris Bedaris; right?
24 A I don't remember whether it was Chris Bedaris or
25 not. Also --
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 292
1 Q Go ahead. Sorry.
2 A I just want to make sure I'm answering
3 accurately.
4 Q Right.
5 A I don't know who that was. I do know that
6 either Mel Lifshitz or one of his investors also
7 attempted to obtain my account balances through another
8 TD branch I believe up north someplace.
9 Q Okay. Do you have a memory of Chris Bedaris
10 going into the TD branch in New York, Long Island, I
11 think, and trying to verify the lock letter that
12 Mr. Spinosa had signed that day for Razorback?
13 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
14 BY MR. SCHERER:
15 Q Does that refresh your recollection?
16 A Yes. I heard about that after the fact.
17 Q Meaning after he did it or after the crash of
18 the Ponzi scheme?
19 A No, no, after he had done it.
20 Q Do you know that Wendy Laterio testified at the
21 Coquina trial that she answered Mr. Bedaris' call and
22 told him, yes, that Frank had signed the lock letter?
23 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
24 THE WITNESS: I did not know that until you just
25 told me.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 293
1 BY MR. SCHERER:
2 Q And that Frank said that was okay, according to
3 her testimony in the Coquina trial that's going on as we
4 speak?
5 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
6 THE WITNESS: I did not know that until you just
7 told me. It doesn't surprise me.
8 BY MR. SCHERER:
9 Q Did Frank tell you that Wendy had mentioned to
10 him that she had told Chris Bedaris over the telephone
11 that Frank Spinosa had signed the lock letter?
12 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
13 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that, Mr. Scherer?
14 BY MR. SCHERER:
15 Q Sure. I mean, the question is not great, but
16 did Frank ever discuss with you that his secretary had
17 advised an investor, Bedaris, that in fact Frank had
18 signed a lock letter for Razorback?
19 A I understand what you're asking me. Frank
20 generally had told me at one point in time based on a
21 question I asked him when I first saw him involving
22 Ms. Laterio in what we were doing, I asked him over the
23 phone if she could be trusted.
24 His response was yes, and she's already had to
25 answer questions on your accounts and she's, you know,
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 294
1 part of the team so to speak. She's answered the
2 questions appropriately. But other than that, no
3 specifics.
4 Q You know, I neglected to ask you this morning
5 about Mr. Caputi's involvement in the shows.
6 A Yes.
7 Q And I'd like to discuss that a little bit. Let
8 me ask you this: Do you know how many "shows," and by
9 shows we mean the charade at TD Bank, how many of those
10 you asked Mr. Caputi to be involved in?
11 A Yes. I asked him to play the role of a --
12 You're talking about the shows specifically, right?
13 Q Yeah. Start with the shows, and then I'm going
14 to talk to you about the time he played like a Plaintiff,
15 and we'll go into Mr. Caputi a little bit.
16 A Okay. I asked him to play the role of a banker
17 at TD Bank.
18 Q How many times did you do that; do you recall?
19 A I would say it was less than half a dozen, but I
20 don't recall the specific number.
21 Q If Mr. Caputi testified in a deposition that we
22 took that you asked him to do it on three occasions,
23 would you quarrel with that?
24 A No, I wouldn't quarrel with that. I don't have
25 a specific recollection.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 295
1 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
2 BY MR. SCHERER:
3 Q Can you recall the instances, tell us about the
4 instances you recall, why you asked Caputi to do it if
5 you can recall --
6 A Sure.
7 Q -- and the circumstances surrounding Mr. Caputi
8 playing like a banker.
9 A Due diligence was heating up from various
10 investors. They wanted to do the bank trip. I needed
11 someone at the bank that was at a stage where they wanted
12 to speak directly to a banker, rather than just go in and
13 get an envelope. And I asked Caputi, I needed someone to
14 do this. So I asked Caputi to come on in and get dressed
15 up and play banker.
16 Q Do you recall that Mr. Spinosa was on vacation
17 on one of those times? Does that ring a bell for you?
18 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
19 THE WITNESS: No, it doesn't ring a bell one way
20 or the other.
21 BY MR. SCHERER:
22 Q Do you recall where Mr. Caputi played the role
23 of the TD Banker on the shows? Was it in Weston on all
24 three times?
25 A I think he was -- He played one person, I think
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 296
1 Mr. Maha (phonetic) he played at the Weston branch. And
2 I believe he played Mr. Garsis or someone working with
3 Mr. Garsis at the Deerfield branch.
4 Q There's an e-mail of a special way that
5 Mr. Spinosa referred to the Weston branch. Do you recall
6 that?
7 A No, I don't actually.
8 Q If I can find it, I'll show you.
9 When Mr. Caputi played like the bank officer, I
10 guess that would be sort of an enhanced show? I mean,
11 ordinarily your shows didn't have, other than the
12 hand-off from Caretsky, but didn't have the sit down with
13 the bank officer.
14 A It was at a specific --
15 (Whereupon, an objection to form was made.)
16 THE WITNESS: It was at a specific time when
17 whichever investors I was taking there wanted
18 specifically to meet with a bank officer.
19 BY MR. SCHERER:
20 Q Do you by any chance remember who the investors
21 were?
22 A I do not at this moment.
23 Q Mr. Caputi remembered that on two occasions
24 there was the same woman, blond -- couldn't remember the
25 hair. I think dark hair, kind of heavyset. Would you
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 297
1 know who that might be?
2 A The only person that has dark hair and heavyset
3 is someone that actually works at the bank. I think
4 that's Rosanne Caretsky.
5 Q Did you take Kathleen White to a bank show.
6 Kathleen White, she's Coquina?
7 A I believe I did.
8 Q She kind of fits that description; doesn't she?
9 A Yeah, she does actually.
10 Q Then Mr. Caputi said at the other time it was a
11 man that he couldn't identify?
12 A As I sit here today, Mr. Scherer, I know I took
13 Caputi. I remember taking him. I remember my uncle
14 driving him there to get him to the bank to make sure he
15 was there on time.
16 Q That was Uncle Bill?
17 A Uncle Bill Brock, yes. I don't have an
18 independent recollection at this moment of actually going
19 through the process with him.
20 Q Okay. Now, Mr. Caputi also did some other
21 things for you in terms of helping to perpetuate the
22 fraud of the Ponzi scheme; correct?
23 A He did.
24 Q Let's kind of talk about that. And I direct
25 your attention to the meeting in your office with Barry
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 298
1 Damson, Kathleen White. And that was when Coquina was
2 making their investments. And we know when that
3 started. I don't have that date to memory, but it would
4 be in the summer of '09, I believe, summer and fall of
5 '09.
6 A Okay.
7 Q Okay. Do you recall what you asked Mr. Caputi
8 to do in your office in front of Kathleen White and Barry
9 Damson?
10 A Yes. I remember asking him to play a Plaintiff.
11 I told him that I needed to have someone come in and see
12 Plaintiff sign the settlement documents and the like. I
13 gave him very specific instructions as to things he
14 needed to say about how much money he was getting and
15 that he wanted his money, to ask when he was getting his
16 money, to make it appear urgent. Other than that, to
17 just go through the steps as I read off the documents to
18 him and signed, and that's what he did for us.
19 Q And Kathleen White was there to observe that and
20 Barry Damson as well?
21 A They were both there, yes.
22 Q Do you recall if that's the same day that you
23 then went from there to see Mr. Spinosa at the home
24 branch headquarters on Cypress Creek?
25 A My best recollection is that it was, yes.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 299
1 Q Did you ask Mr. Caputi to do anything else in
2 terms of the Ponzi fraud?
3 A I did actually.
4 Q Would you tell us about that.
5 A He played the Plaintiff. He played the banker.
6 Yeah. It was a subtext of everything, Mr. Scherer. He
7 also pretended to be a reporter interested in Manfredi
8 LeFebure and what was going on with Silversea and
9 assisted in harassing Mr. LeFebure for Mr. Peters' and my
10 benefit.
11 Q And you categorize all of that as a part of your
12 Ponzi, if you will?
13 A I categorize anything that yielded funds into
14 the law firm as far as illegal activity, yielding funds
15 into the law firm, perpetrating a facade of real
16 investments existing, increasing the power and prestige
17 of the law firm and its partners. All of that is part of
18 the Ponzi one way or the other.
19 Q Would you use the money that you got from
20 Silversea and other illegal activities to pay off Ponzi
21 investors?
22 A Sure.
23 Q So it all went into one big pot and you paid off
24 the folks that needed to be paid off --
25 A That's correct.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 300
1 Q -- based on their expected returns?
2 A That's correct.
3 Q I want to speak to you a little bit. I want to
4 examine you a little bit about the Platinum and Centurion
5 hedge funds, what we call the funds. I guess that was
6 Platinum and Centurion and Level 3. And I'd like to get
7 some basics in to start with.
8 A Okay.
9 Q First of all, do you know how this relationship
10 with the funds and Banyon came about?
11 A To my knowledge it was achieved through some
12 broker that Mr. Levin and Mr. Preve had enlisted the
13 assistance of in raising money.
14 Q And were you involved in that process at all
15 with them in terms of the negotiations and the structure
16 and any of the details in setting up that relationship?
17 A I was not.
18 Q Did they consult with you with respect to what
19 they could do and couldn't do in setting up this
20 structure?
21 A They involved me to the extent that it was
22 necessary to explain to the funds what was going to be
23 occurring with the investment. Other than that, all what
24 I'll refer to as the back office work, their financing
25 agreements, guarantees, percentages, equity positions as
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 301
1 opposed to how they were going to borrow the money,
2 whether it was going to be an AB or asset based loan or
3 the like, that was all done between Mr. Preve, Levin and
4 the funds.
5 Q Did you have a concern that by bringing in some
6 institutional type financier that your Ponzi could be
7 exposed?
8 A Yes.
9 Q How did you handle those fears with respect to
10 the involvement of the funds?
11 A I spoke to Banyon, meaning Mr. Preve. Again,
12 most of my communication regarding day-to-day Banyon
13 activity was with Mr. Preve. Not to say that I didn't
14 speak with Mr. Levin because I did frequently. But the
15 day-to-day operations were done with Mr. Preve.
16 Any time they were introducing a new entity or
17 new people into the Ponzi at any level, I expressed
18 concern. Are we sure these people can be trusted? Are
19 these people going to be a headache? Make sure they're
20 not going to create problems for us. Make sure we take
21 it step-by-step with these people. Conversations like
22 that.
23 Frank and I were, we communicated frequently.
24 If you would check my office phone records and my cell
25 phone records, you'll see there must be literally
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 302
1 hundreds of calls between the two of us and thousands of
2 e-mails, I would imagine.
3 Q You just engaged in Ponzi speak there a little
4 bit.
5 A Ponzi speak.
6 Q Yeah, Ponzi speak. Problems, go slow. What you
7 meant by that Ponzi speak was, Let's make sure we don't
8 get detected because if we do the fraud will blow up?
9 A Yes. I think that one of the misnomers about
10 people who are engaged in fraud is that we actually talk
11 about the fraud, and generally we do not. And we
12 certainly did not. We talked about it in fraudulent
13 terms I suppose as little as possible. Although it does
14 come quite clear in the e-mail traffic what was going
15 on. But you don't sit down and say, okay, we don't want
16 our fraud to blow up. We say, usually with many
17 expletives, make sure these people don't F it up for us.
18 We've got a good thing going. Is what they're going to
19 contribute, does it outweigh the risks that they're going
20 to bring to the table. That type of conversation.
21 Q And what would that be? Explain that to a
22 jury.
23 A That we don't want them to discover we're
24 committing criminal acts.
25 Q Would that also apply to when lawyers were doing
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 303
1 diligence for some of the investors?
2 A Of course.
3 Q And the law firms that were writing pre-purchase
4 memoranda and things like that?
5 A Absolutely.
6 Q Now, what is your understanding of -- Let me
7 back up.
8 Yesterday you testified that initially you
9 thought Platinum and Centurion and Level 3 were different
10 funds and different organizations, but you later learned
11 something different. Do you recall that testimony?
12 A I do.
13 Q And so for the purpose of this record, what did
14 you learn about the ownership of Platinum, Centurion and
15 Level 3?
16 A Let me explain it this way: It was initially
17 presented to me that we were speaking to several
18 different hedge funds. I later learned that it was
19 really one big, call it a mish-mash of funds. It was all
20 being run out of the same building. The only separation
21 that existed was I believe Platinum was on a different
22 floor, but that it was all being ultimately controlled,
23 overseen, and all the major decisions were being made by
24 a gentleman by the named of Murray Huberfeld.
25 Q How did you become aware of that?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 304
1 A Jack Simony told me. Mark Nordlicht told me.
2 Frank Preve told me.
3 Q Now, did Nordlicht tell you he had an ownership
4 interest in all three of those funds?
5 A That Maurry Huberfeld had an interest?
6 Q No, that Mark Nordlicht had a --
7 A Mark Nordlicht originally did not tell me that.
8 Originally Mark told me he was only involved with
9 Platinum. But ultimately during subsequent conversations
10 I learned that he had an ownership interest, at least a
11 financial -- let's differentiate between legal ownership
12 and financial interest. I later came to learn both
13 through Mr. Nordlicht, Jack Simony, and Ari Glass that
14 Mr. Nordlicht was receiving compensation from all three
15 of the entities. In addition to some side entities that
16 came up such as Regent and the like, side deals that were
17 going on. So he had his hands in everything.
18 Q We're going to talk about that a little bit
19 later. How about David Bodner, did you ever hear that
20 name?
21 A David Bodner?
22 Q Uh-huh
23 A I heard the name, but I don't recall who that
24 is.
25 Q You didn't know that he was a co-equal owner
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 305
1 with Murray Huberfeld in these funds?
2 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
3 THE WITNESS: No. I don't recollect hearing
4 that. You've got to understand, what I was hearing
5 constantly on the phone was, on the phone and in
6 person, well, Murray said do this. It would be the
7 same thing as my lawyers saying, well, Scott said you
8 could do this, Scott said you can't do this. It was
9 always, Murray said we're doing this. Murray said it
10 needs to be done this way. And the key to doing that
11 was keeping all of us isolated from Murray. Neither
12 I, nor Preve, nor Mr. Levin to my knowledge have ever
13 met or spoke to Mr. Huberfeld.
14 BY MR. SCHERER:
15 Q I guess we've talked about that. Let's talk
16 about who is Mark Nordlicht and how did you come to know
17 about him?
18 A I met all of -- obviously I was told about all
19 these people before our first meeting. But I was told by
20 Mr. Levin and Mr. Preve that Mr. Preve and I were going
21 to fly up -- I don't remember if George came with us to
22 this or not. I think just Mr. Preve and I did. But we
23 were going to do a dog and pony show for the funds at
24 their offices in New York.
25 Q And did you do a dog and pony show? I mean,
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 306
1 that's a presentation, I assume?
2 A Yeah. I did a presentation about the
3 investments, Frank did some of his stuff regarding the
4 financials. It was more of a meet and greet with all the
5 various people involved. People came in and out of the
6 meeting. I remember Gil Colter, Gillad Colter came in
7 and then left, came in and then left. Other people
8 wondered in and out of the meeting. And it was an
9 opportunity to get to know us and ask us questions.
10 Q Jack Simony, who is Jack Simony?
11 A Jack Simony was I guess the -- I guess you'd
12 call him the account manager for us. He was the guy who
13 handled all of the day-to-day handling of the
14 relationship with Banyon.
15 Q Did you understand that Simony had some
16 experience with financing law firms and settlements and
17 things like that --
18 A Yes.
19 Q -- prior to being involved with Platinum and
20 Centurion?
21 A It was my understanding from speaking to
22 Mr. Simony and from speaking to Mr. Preve as well was
23 Mr. Glass that Mr. Simony had been involved in a company
24 called Whitehaven that did the financing in a different
25 methodology, did the financing of litigation. And it was
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 307
1 explained to me that it was more during the course of
2 litigation funding where they buy a piece of the action
3 before there was any result.
4 Q I notice that you frequently communicated to
5 Mr. Simony with Whitehaven e-mail. Do you recall that?
6 A Sure. As a matter of fact, I remember Mr. Preve
7 several times telling me, send it to Jack or Whitehaven.
8 Q Did you say, why Whitehaven, why not Platinum?
9 A I said that to Jack once.
10 Q What did he tell you?
11 A He told me that's where his offices still were.
12 He had offices in both places. He had offices in the
13 Empire State Building for Whitehaven and he had offices
14 in that building right by Carnegie Hall for Platinum,
15 Centurion and Level 3.
16 Q Did you ever have any contact with the
17 Whitehaven people, and that would be the people that were
18 involved with Mr. Simony at Whitehaven?
19 A I may have, Mr. Scherer, but I don't have an
20 independent recollection of it as I sit here today.
21 Q Do you recall in late fall of '09 that you were
22 going to rent an office, a spare office at Whitehaven's
23 office and sent Whitehaven a check for $25,000 as a
24 deposit?
25 A Yes.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 308
1 Q What was that all about? Why did you do that?
2 A We had originally been using an apartment that
3 Roger Stone was renting in Manhattan off Central Park
4 South as our New York office address.
5 Mr. Stone subsequently lost the lease on that
6 apartment, and we wanted to have a New York presence. So
7 we spoke to Mr. Simony about it, and he offered to lease
8 us space.
9 Q Do you know anything about efforts to acquire
10 Whitehaven, the company, either by Banyon or Mr. Levin or
11 Mr. Preve or you?
12 A No, sir.
13 Q Just as a background, did you come to understand
14 that some of the Platinum, Centurion, Level 3 business
15 was offshore and that the investments had to be made
16 offshore for some tax reason or some reason?
17 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
18 MR. SCHERER: What's the form? Who's making
19 that objection?
20 MS. TRENCH: I am.
21 MR. SCHERER: Okay, Susan. What's the
22 objection?
23 MS. TRENCH: Leading.
24 MR. SCHERER: I know that. He's adverse. I'm
25 suing him for $180 million.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 309
1 MS. TRENCH: That and it's a compound question.
2 MR. SCHERER: Okay. What else?
3 MS. TRENCH: Assumes facts. Lack of
4 foundation.
5 MR. SCHERER: Oh, come on.
6 MS. TRENCH: I'll give you all of them.
7 MR. SCHERER: All right. Well, let me just go
8 back.
9 BY MR. SCHERER:
10 Q What was your understanding of the structure of
11 Platinum, Centurion, and Level 3?
12 A At some point in time during my relationship
13 with them it was told to me by Mr. Simony, Mr. Glass,
14 Mr. Nordlicht, and Frank Preve that certain of the
15 transactions, and I don't remember which of the hedge
16 funds it was had to actually handle the entire
17 transaction, meaning approve it and give instructions to
18 fund offshore. And I actually got to take one of those
19 trips with Mr. Glass.
20 Q Did he evaluate the investment, the Ponzi
21 investment that they were about to make in this trip
22 offshore?
23 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
24 THE WITNESS: No.
25 MR. SCHERER: Wait a minute. I like to see
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 310
1 who's objecting.
2 What's wrong with that?
3 MS. TRENCH: Well, you implied that they said
4 they were investing in a Ponzi investment, which
5 there's no foundation for that.
6 BY MR. SCHERER:
7 Q Okay. Why did you go to the Bahamas with
8 Mr. Glass?
9 A What had occurred was we were getting ready to
10 fund a bunch of the Ponzi settlements. It was going
11 through whichever entity. I don't know why Platinum is
12 sticking out in my head as the offshore entity. I don't
13 know which of the entities it was.
14 But in any event, Mr. Glass was going to be the
15 person who went to the Bahamas. My understanding from
16 speaking to him and Mr. Nordlicht and Mr. Preve was that
17 it was usually either Mr. Nordlicht or Mr. Glass that
18 went offshore to handle this.
19 Ari asked me if I'd like to go with him and I
20 said, not only will I go with you, I said, but I'll
21 charter the jet. I'll take us over there. And I'll
22 arrange, quote, unquote, entertainment for us for the
23 trip.
24 We went over there. When we arrived in the
25 Bahamas we checked into a hotel. We got two rooms. We
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 311
1 had a guest with us. And I said, okay, what do we need
2 to do? His response was, we don't need to do anything.
3 We just need to wait until a certain time, and then
4 they'll send us a packet, and I'll send back an e-mail
5 saying it's been approved.
6 Q Now, did you --
7 A Let me just add this --
8 Q Sure.
9 A -- just so I can complete the story.
10 Q Have you completed your discussion of that?
11 A No. One of the key elements was when I said to
12 Mr. Glass when I was discussing, what do we have to do,
13 and we decided we were going to go down to the pool and
14 drink, was that the deals that we had gone over for had
15 already been approved in New York by Murray and
16 Mr. Nordlicht and anyone else that needed to play a role
17 in it.
18 So the going actually to the Bahamas was just
19 simply to have, I guess, all the different receipts and
20 things that we needed to have in case they were ever
21 challenged from a tax prospective.
22 Q What was your understanding about how Platinum
23 and Centurion would approve the deals? And by "deals,"
24 you're talking about the Ponzi settlements; correct?
25 A This particular offshore transaction?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 312
1 Q No, generally. You said New York would be
2 approving the deal and I'd like you to explain your
3 understanding of how that worked.
4 A My understanding was that Frank would -- I'd
5 send the deal selection to Frank. Frank would decide
6 what needed to be papered. He would then tell me to
7 paper a certain selection of deals.
8 Deb and I and whoever else was involved at that
9 moment would paper the deals. We'd send the paperwork
10 over in the proper redacted format to Frank.
11 My understanding from that point is Frank then
12 repackaged it with all of the paperwork that was
13 pertinent to their relationship with the hedge funds and
14 ship that off to New York.
15 Frank would then get a response back from New
16 York saying, we're taking this deal, this deal, this
17 deal, we're not taking this deal, this deal, this deal.
18 Frank would notify me and we'd wait for the funding.
19 Q And the deals would be in packaged form like the
20 rest of the settlement papers, the payout terms, the
21 terms of the lump sum, that sort of thing; right?
22 A My understanding is all of my paperwork went
23 over there along with additional paperwork that I didn't
24 see until much later.
25 Q Were you ever advised that -- Well, let me back
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 313
1 up.
2 How often did you get the paperwork wrong? And
3 that is, that the terms didn't quite match the money
4 coming in and the payments going out and that sort of
5 thing. What I would call the math of everything.
6 A There were frequent errors attributable to the
7 vast amount of paperwork that I had Ms. Villegas
8 attempting to put together. She frequently got the
9 numbers wrong and paperwork was sent with wrong numbers
10 on it, with wrong names on it, with improper case numbers
11 and the like over to Mr. Preve.
12 Q Did you ever get word that Mr. Preve would be
13 forwarding that defective paperwork on to Platinum and
14 Centurion or the funds. Let me call it that way.
15 A Two different scenarios arose. Sometimes, and
16 this should be in all of your e-mails, sometimes
17 Mr. Preve would catch the error and send it to me,
18 telling me this needed to be corrected, that needed to be
19 corrected. Once he got comfortable with Deborah Villegas
20 he would send it directly to her and copy me and tell her
21 to fix it.
22 Q Okay.
23 A On occasions, more than several, he would
24 actually send the paperwork. He did not catch the error
25 and it went over to Platinum and Centurion and Level 3,
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 314
1 et cetera. They sent it back for correction to Frank,
2 and then sent it to me. Deb would correct it and it would
3 go back.
4 Q How would you correct it?
5 A We just changed the pages out. Sometimes we
6 made changes and did fraudulent initials on it. But we
7 changed whatever they needed to change.
8 Q You put fraudulent initials on it as though you
9 went back to the punitive Defendant or Plaintiffs and had
10 them initial the corrections?
11 A Sure, if you think that was going on because it
12 happened instantaneously. There's no way I could really
13 possibly pull the Defendant and the Plaintiff in there
14 unless they were sitting in my drawer. I'm being
15 facetious, of course.
16 Q I understand. In terms of some appreciation of
17 the fact that money wasn't in hand from a Defendant and
18 the money wasn't paid out to a Plaintiff in a lump sum,
19 if this happened after the fact, what would that
20 demonstrate?
21 A Can you restate the question?
22 Q Yeah. Lousy question.
23 A I didn't say it was lousy. I just need you to
24 restate it.
25 Q It was. It was a lousy question. I'll rephrase
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 315
1 it.
2 If the deal was a legitimate purchase of a
3 settlement stream of payments and it had already happened
4 and the money was in hand at trust at the bank, the
5 Plaintiff had already gotten his or her, and it's usually
6 her money, and then the deal had to be completely
7 corrected, of course that would undermine the entire
8 Ponzi scheme, at least as to that investment; correct?
9 A Yes. There were frequent conversations, in
10 answer to your question, there were frequent
11 conversations between Mr. Preve and I, Debra and I, from
12 time to time about the fact that it was almost like a
13 barometer as to whether we could tell what level of due
14 diligence we were going to get from people, what level of
15 scrutiny we were going to get when mistakes occurred.
16 Because things were occurring that could not reasonably
17 occur in any legitimate investment scenario such as these
18 type of corrections.
19 You would think that a Defendant maybe one time
20 could perhaps miss the fact that the amount they're
21 settling for is off by hundreds of thousands of dollars,
22 which you would not think that that would happen with
23 multiple Defendants, multiple defense counsel on a
24 regular basis, which it did.
25 Q That would tell you and Mr. Preve what, when
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 316
1 that happened repeatedly without the investors catching
2 it?
3 A What it told us was we could rest a little bit
4 easier with regard to the scrutiny that we would be
5 getting from the other side.
6 There are clear indicators, skipping my
7 testimony, there are clear indicators in the documents
8 when you go through them, I believe, that indicate people
9 who were in the know, meaning knew that there was some
10 type of fraud going on, and people who did not, and you
11 could tell by their level of due diligence, I believe.
12 But more than that, you could tell by what they let pass.
13 Q If there were mistakes made and investors would
14 come back to you for an explanation, and then you offered
15 an explanation that they accepted, you would put those
16 investors in one category as opposed to investors that
17 never asked?
18 A Of course. There's a difference between an
19 investor who is asking the proper questions and takes my
20 explanation and an investor who asks no questions; sure.
21 Q Let me refer back to Morse a little bit while
22 we're in the middle of Platinum and Centurion, but there
23 were two deals to Morse Operations for payment of 700,000
24 with a return of 300 on top of the seven, so a million
25 back.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 317
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q And do you recall that? And then immediately
3 thereafter you would e-mail and say, I hit this again. I
4 got another seven and three. Are you in? And the e-mail
5 back, yeah, we're in, and the money would be wired to
6 you. Do you recall that scenario that you did four times
7 with Morse Operations?
8 A I don't know how many times I did it, but I
9 recall several scenarios where we did that.
10 Q Let me see that if you recall that on the first
11 one that you did two million deals based on the e-mails
12 which I didn't ask you about this morning, but I could
13 get them out if I had to, when you returned the paperwork
14 you did one $2 million deal --
15 A Okay.
16 Q -- rather than two, $1 million deals.
17 A That rings a bell.
18 Q And then you repeated it again sometime later, a
19 short time later with the Morse Operations where you did
20 two $1 million deals based on e-mails back and forth, and
21 the paperwork was a $2 million deal.
22 A Sure. I understand that.
23 Q Those were the only two Ponzi settled papered
24 deals that you ever did with the Morse family, Morse
25 Operations, Ted and --
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 318
1 A They were the only deals where we actually
2 provided them with full settlement packets.
3 Q Those two?
4 A Right. Well, nobody did.
5 Q That put me off track.
6 A Did you want to ask me another question?
7 Q I've forgotten where we were.
8 A We were talking about the Morse, the only two
9 packets that we did.
10 Q Yeah. Only two packets. And then do you recall
11 whether or not those two papered deals became promissory
12 notes a year later?
13 A I don't recall one way or the other, but I do
14 remember that whenever Ted got inquires from his auditors
15 or from his father for that matter requiring that he
16 wanted to see some paperwork, generally it was the
17 auditors, that we provided whatever he needed. So if he
18 needed a deal packet, we gave him the deal packet. Later
19 if he needed a Promissory Note, we'd give him that.
20 Q Your testimony yesterday was that when you got
21 that threatening e-mail from Carol Morse that you
22 suspected was written by a lawyer because it didn't use
23 normal English, it had lawyer speak in it; you recall
24 that e-mail?
25 MS. DEUTSCH: Objection to form.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 319
1 THE WITNESS: I do.
2 BY MR. SCHERER:
3 Q What do you recall that e-mail where Carol
4 threatened you to look like?
5 MS. DEUTSCH: Object to the form.
6 MR. SCHERER: What's the matter with it?
7 MS. DEUTSCH: Use of the term threatened. Can
8 you rephrase?
9 MR. SCHERER: Well, I think that was his
10 testimony.
11 BY MR. SCHERER:
12 Q Do you recall how you phrased your testimony
13 yesterday about that e-mail from Carol that precipitated
14 the Judge Seltzer meeting?
15 A Prior to --
16 MR. DEUTSCH: Objection to form.
17 THE WITNESS: Prior to receiving, actually prior
18 to the Judge Seltzer meeting, I received an e-mail
19 from Carol Morse that we discussed yesterday that --
20 I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to read it
21 and understand that she is very close to figuring out
22 what we're doing. It was clear to me that it was
23 written by someone other than her, at least in part.
24 And it did at the end of the e-mail threaten me. It
25 said, either you get me this stuff or I will take
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 320
1 alternative means. It said, if you have acted
2 ethically this shouldn't be a problem.
3 BY MR. SCHERER:
4 Q I think you testified yesterday that you had the
5 impression when you received that that it was written by
6 a lawyer or she had a lawyer help her write that. Do you
7 recall that testimony?
8 A I do.
9 Q Now, from that point on, did you believe that
10 Carol Morse had a lawyer that was advising her from that
11 point to the -- that being September through the crash of
12 the Ponzi?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Do you remember whether you and Ted talked about
15 that at all?
16 A We did extensively. We talked about Carol
17 extensively frequently.
18 Q Do you have a recollection of discussing with
19 Ted that Carol may have her own counsel involved?
20 MR. MULLIN: John Mullin. I'm going to restate
21 the objections I made yesterday. All of the
22 questioning about Carol Morse and Ed Morse related
23 not to the Razorback 2,100 page complaint for which
24 Mr. Scherer got permission to take this depo, but to
25 a separate action that to date we've not been served
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 321
1 with.
2 So, I think that this violates protocol order
3 and we object to this entire line of questioning and
4 move to strike.
5 MR. SCHERER: You did that yesterday. I think
6 this is a continuing deposition, as I understand it.
7 MR. MULLIN: I wanted to make sure you knew it
8 was a continuing deposition. I thought you were done
9 with that topic.
10 MR. SCHERER: Sorry, Mr. Mullin, what did you
11 say last? I got interrupted.
12 MR. MULLIN: I said I wanted to make sure you
13 knew it was a continuing objection since I thought
14 you were done with that topic.
15 MR. SCHERER: Okay. Thank you very much.
16 MR. MULLIN: You're welcome.
17 MR. SCHERER: Madam Reporter, can you read back
18 my question?
19 (The pending question was read back by the court
20 reporter.)
21 BY MR. SCHERER:
22 Q And the answer is?
23 A Here's the way it would work with Ted. Any time
24 that Carol was bothering me, making inquires that were
25 problematic for me, create problems for his dad, for Ed,
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 322
1 driving him crazy, Ted and I would speak about it. I
2 frequently said to Ted on receipt of all the various
3 e-mails I got from Carol that he needed to figure out, by
4 talking to his dad, what the heck was going on, that
5 she's making ridiculous inquires, that she's not letting
6 me do what I need to do.
7 If she's going to create a real problem between
8 me, him, and Ed, a real problem for us, if she continues,
9 we don't need this kind of headache.
10 He would agree with me. He would generally talk
11 to Ed. And when this first occurred he came back to me
12 and said, she's got her - I believe it's either her
13 sister or sister-in-law, I don't remember whether it was
14 sister or sister-in-law that she was speaking to, and
15 that when she's up in Maine this is all she has to do, so
16 she's focused on it. But basically just try to appease
17 her as best as I could.
18 As I told you yesterday, Ted had a very poor
19 relationship with her. I wouldn't even qualify it as a
20 relationship.
21 It then escalated with this e-mail. I called
22 Ted and I remember it being a very heated conversation on
23 my side basically saying what is the F is going on, this
24 is isn't coming from the sister-in-law or whatever it
25 was, or some lay person she's talking to this, is coming
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 323
1 from a lawyer, which means I have a level of scrutiny on
2 me and I can't get past. This is a real problem and you
3 need to do something about it. Don't worry, I'll talk to
4 Ed.
5 Q And did you attempt to accelerate the payments
6 that you owed of this bond money and the investments that
7 they had made because of this lawyer scrutiny?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Now, you used the word real problem and we don't
10 need this kind of problem; is that Ponzi speak again?
11 A Yes. That is, we don't need people looking at
12 what I'm doing or not doing. You have to understand, Ted
13 is very pragmatic. He is result-oriented; with regard to
14 the investments, is he making money, the answer - if it's
15 yes, fine, everything is good with him. Okay. Doesn't
16 really care how, just wants to make sure that everything
17 is going according to the way he wants it to go.
18 With regard to his father, he simply wanted his
19 father happy, and whatever steps we needed to take to
20 make his father happy, that's what needed to be done.
21 Q While we're on that subject, do you have any
22 recollection of Mr. Ted Morse making some affectionate
23 reference to you and your business in relation to a
24 Cadillac store or Cadillac dealership?
25 A Yes. It was frequently the joke around our
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 324
1 friends, it was actually also repeated to another friend
2 of ours, mutual friends, the Meldow, Margaret and Michael
3 Meldow, that time by Patti. The statement was always
4 that one, we were their most profitable car dealership,
5 meaning R.R.A. slash Scott was our most profitable car
6 dealership. They used to say that all the time in
7 public.
8 I later came to find out pre-explosion of the
9 Ponzi, pre the crash, that Patti had actually - during a
10 conversation with Margaret Meldow, had actually told her
11 if it wasn't for the investments and all the things that
12 I was doing for them financially that they wouldn't have
13 been able to sustain the growth of the dealerships nor do
14 all the things they were able to do for the family just
15 as buying homes and the like for the children.
16 MR. MULLIN: Objection, move to strike as non
17 responsive and hearsay.
18 Q Do you have a memory of any construction that
19 was going on at the Cadillac - one of the Morse Cadillac
20 agencies during this period of time on Federal Highway
21 there?
22 A Yes, sure.
23 Q What do you recall about this?
24 A Ted telling me that it was the investment money
25 that was basically assisting the family in all of the car
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 325
1 dealership expansion - they were doing an expansion, a
2 large expansion at the Bayview dealership on Federal
3 Highway. They were in the process of building a brand
4 new Toyota dealership in Delray and they were doing
5 expansions of the dealerships up on the west coast of
6 Florida, if I'm not mistaken, or the Tampa area.
7 Ted and I -- and this was discussed amongst our
8 group of friends, I used to joke around with Ted and say,
9 you are the only car dealer -- this was during the
10 automotive downturn, I used to say every time we saw Mike
11 Jackson from AutoNation and he would say hello to us and
12 I would joke around with Ted and say, he's pissed at you,
13 he's pissed. Everyone else is having problems and you
14 keep expanding. You're the only car dealership family
15 that continues to expand during a major automotive
16 contraction, he would say, that's because I have a very,
17 very fine performing car dealership that doesn't require
18 a floor plan, and that was me.
19 Q Let me show you an e-mail on December the 12,
20 2008.
21 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 46, Bates labeled
22 Rothstein S 117 to 118.
23 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 46 was
24 marked for identification.)
25 BY MR. SCHERER:
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 326
1 Q This is from Mr. Preve to you. And I have
2 highlighted down at the bottom there for you - it says in
3 this e-mail: Also need to discuss the three million
4 dollar -- 3m, which I presume is million dollar licensing
5 fee, paren, Jack, closed paren, and the 11 million
6 pending transaction. When you available. Question
7 mark.
8 Do you recall what that was all about?
9 A Which part of it?
10 Q Well, the three million dollar licensing fee and
11 the 11 million dollar pending transaction?
12 A Yes.
13 Q The date is 12/12/08. Excuse me, I can't read.
14 It's December 1, '08.
15 A Yes, I do.
16 Q Take them one at a time. The licensing fee,
17 what licensing fee was involved with Jack? First of all,
18 who is Jack?
19 A Jack Simony.
20 Q What is the licensing fee that was involved with
21 Jack?
22 A There's no such thing.
23 Q Okay. Did you have a discussion with either
24 Jack or Frank or both about the three million dollar
25 licensing fee?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 327
1 A It was a methodology created by Mr. Preve and
2 Mr. Simony to get additional funds into Mr. Simony's
3 personal hands.
4 Q Do you know whether they were to be to
5 Mr. Simony or ultimately go to Murray Huberfeld?
6 A I don't have a clue. I just knew in order to
7 keep Jack on board we needed to get him money.
8 Q This licensing fee, was there any kind of
9 legitimate reason to grant a three million dollar
10 licensing fee, to your knowledge?
11 A To my knowledge, no.
12 Q Now, are you aware that there was testimony from
13 David Ring in this case to the affect that Jack Simony
14 had tried to rent the 1-800 retired judge website for a
15 three million dollar fee?
16 A No, sir. I don't know anything about that
17 testimony nor do I know anything about that agreement.
18 Q Do you have any knowledge about Banyon, Preve,
19 or you trying to buy or rent a 1-800 retired judges
20 number?
21 A We had discussed it, but I was really not
22 interested. You understand there's no real business
23 going on. I have no real reason to buy an 800 number.
24 Q Are you aware of e-mail traffic between Preve
25 and Mr. Simony concerning that this would provide some
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 328
1 form of cover or some such Ponzi words like that?
2 A I haven't seen that, no.
3 Q Okay. You are not aware of Mr. Simony's
4 testimony that this three million dollar 1-800 ex-judge
5 deal was a way to try to get three million dollars to
6 Murray?
7 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
8 A My answer to the question is no, I was not aware
9 of it. I knew that the licensing fee thing that is in
10 here is not real because we weren't trying to license
11 anything.
12 What they were doing behind the scenes, all I
13 knew is that Frank wanted me to get money as much as
14 possible to Jack as quickly as possible. The way they
15 were going to do that, that was between them.
16 Q Are you aware that Mr. Simony testified that the
17 folks that owned 1-800 ex-judge accused him of trying to
18 involve them in a scam and that Mr. Simony agreed that he
19 was indeed trying to scam them with respect to this three
20 million dollar payment back to Mr. Huberfeld?
21 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
22 A I was unaware of that.
23 MS. TRENCH: I didn't hear the answer.
24 THE DEPONENT: I said I was unaware of that.
25 MS. TRENCH: Thank you.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 329
1 THE DEPONENT: You're welcome.
2 BY MR. SCHERER:
3 Q You have used the term - they tell me I missed
4 it - that something about this three million dollar fee
5 was to get Jack on board?
6 A Yes, I did use the words on board.
7 Q What did you mean by that?
8 A If you look at the date that this was all going
9 on, we were having problems with the hedge funds by
10 December of '08 with the amount of funding and the like,
11 and it was constantly reiterated to me by Mr. Preve that
12 in order to keep Jack happy we needed to make sure he
13 made as much money as possible, and anything we could do
14 in that regard would benefit us because I was told by
15 Mr. Preve that he was our best advocate at the three
16 hedge funds.
17 Q Do you know how much the line of credit or the
18 facility - I'll use those words because those are the
19 words I think that have been used in this case - that
20 Platinum and Centurion and Level 3 had devoted or had
21 agreed with Banyon to provide to Banyon to buy these
22 settlements?
23 A I only know what Mr. Preve told me.
24 Q What was that?
25 A That there was a 50 million dollar line and 150
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 330
1 million dollar line.
2 Q Do you know if there was an additional 50
3 million dollars for Level 3?
4 A My recollection is that there was at a
5 subsequent date.
6 Q Okay. So, it started out 50 and 150 with
7 Platinum and Centurion. I don't know which is which; do
8 you?
9 A I do not.
10 Q And then at a later date another 50 with Level
11 3?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q Were you ever aware of how much money Platinum
14 had out at the highest level of their funding of Banyon
15 settlements?
16 A I do not know.
17 Q From December through, April during that
18 time-frame - and so we're talking about December '08
19 through April of '09?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q Is it your understanding that the Funds in New
22 York started ramping down, if you will, or decreasing
23 their level of funding?
24 A That's correct.
25 Q Did that cause a problem for you and Banyon and
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 331
1 your investment scheme?
2 A Yes, it did.
3 Q What kind of problems?
4 A It choked off our funding. We were strangled to
5 make payments to investors, including to them.
6 Q Now, I think I represented to you yesterday that
7 the accounting records show that they stopped funding
8 altogether in April?
9 A Yes. I think my recollection was that they shut
10 us down pre-April 13, 2009 was my recollection, if I'm
11 correct, April 13, 2009 is when we choked them off,
12 stopped paying them.
13 Q I'd like to spend a little time developing the
14 facts that transpired between December and April 13, and
15 then we'll take it from April 13 to the Halloween crash.
16 A Okay.
17 Q Now, let me show you an e-mail. Let me ask you
18 this, if the Funds had stopped funding in April
19 altogether, and I believe the record supports that, how
20 did you carry on your Ponzi scheme from April through the
21 crash?
22 A I believe that the records, the financial
23 records should establish that we had other sources. I
24 had solicited -- he came to me to do it, Mr. Szafranski,
25 his group - let's call them the Von Allmen, Clockwork,
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 332
1 Discala group, the BIF.
2 Q Banyon Income Fund?
3 A Bekkedam, Banyon funds. We had replaced them as
4 we had previously when things like this occurred with new
5 feeder funds.
6 Q And Pearson?
7 A And Pearson Boden, yes.
8 Q And the Coquina?
9 A Yes, Coquina.
10 Q Emess?
11 A That's also through Szafranski. Coquina, Emess
12 is also through Szafranski.
13 Q And Sochet?
14 A Sochet is also through Szafranski.
15 Q Did I leave anybody out?
16 A If I think of anybody I'll let you know.
17 Q Didn't Balamore Bekkedam put some people
18 directly into 1030-32?
19 A I believe, based upon what Mr. Preve told me,
20 that that's correct. But I was always grouping some of
21 these people, Mr. Scherer, this may help you in phrasing
22 your questions to me. I grouped everybody based upon who
23 originated them. I had people that Szafranski was
24 originating. I had people that Banyon was originating.
25 We had a very large - as you can tell from the financial
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 333
1 records - influx of capital at that point in time from
2 new sources. Balamore, Bekkedam, all fall under, in my
3 mind, the way I associated it, under the Levin chain,
4 although there's a cross-over into the Von Allmen chain.
5 Q Were these new feeders doing due diligence all
6 during this time-frame that we're talking about here from
7 April through the crash?
8 A At different levels, yes.
9 Q You were still paying off, were you not, the
10 Funds, the New York Funds, Platinum Centurion and Level 3
11 from April through the crash?
12 A At a minimal level, yes.
13 Q Minimal relative to what you were doing before?
14 A Minimal based upon what they were actually owed
15 in payments, yes.
16 Q Do you know how much they were owed in April of
17 '09, approximately?
18 A I'm sorry, at this time I don't recall.
19 Q All right. If I told you about 100,000 -- a a
20 hundred million, excuse me, would you have a quarrel with
21 that?
22 A I would not.
23 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
24 Q And for the purposes of my examination, I want
25 you to assume that the forensic show that in December
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 334
1 they had about 108 million outstanding?
2 A Okay.
3 Q Ramped down to a hundred by April and then it
4 ramped down to 18 million at the crash --
5 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
6 A Okay. I will assume that.
7 Q I'm going to ask you to assume that based on our
8 forensic examination.
9 A Okay.
10 Q I'm going to talk to you generally and then I'll
11 get specific. When these new investors were coming on or
12 these new feeders and new investors that we talked about
13 were coming on, do you have any knowledge about their
14 contact with the Funds to determine how the Funds - how
15 you had performed or how Banyon had performed prior to
16 April of '09?
17 A Yes.
18 Q What do you know about that?
19 A At the time that Preve was basically leading the
20 charge in that direction to bring on - I'll call them the
21 BIF funders, the Clockwork, Von Allmen people, that
22 particular group, part of that - an integral part of that
23 according to what Mr. Preve was telling me was that we
24 needed to get an A plus credit rating from the hedge
25 funds. That without that we were dead in the water.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 335
1 Mr. Preve and I discussed that at length over
2 many days. And we put into action a plan, the purpose of
3 which would be to make sure that the hedge funds,
4 Centurion, Platinum, and Level 3 said that we were an
5 excellent investment strategy and that they had had no
6 problems with us and there were no defaults.
7 Q You said you put a plan together. What was that
8 plan?
9 A We were going to do several things. We were
10 going to choke them off, stop paying them. We were going
11 to -- no polite way to put this - we were going to
12 threaten them that if they did not give us a positive
13 credit rating that the entire investment would come
14 crashing down, that everyone would be exposed at all
15 their various levels of knowledge, and that it would be
16 apocalyptic for all of us.
17 Q Let me go back and see if we can establish kind
18 of the order of funding with these new feeders that you
19 got to replace Platinum and Centurion and Level 3. Do
20 you recall which one was the first of the feeders?
21 A I do not.
22 Q Let me see if I can help you refresh your
23 recollection. The Banyon Income Fund was made operative
24 in April - at the end of April and began funding in May
25 of '09?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 336
1 MS. TRENCH: Objection, form.
2 Q I want you to assume that.
3 A I will assume that.
4 Q At a hundred million dollar level.
5 A Okay.
6 Q And then Clockwork came in after that with
7 Razorback and D-3 from May - didn't start up until
8 October. I want you to assume that.
9 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
10 A That makes sense to me.
11 Q Now, I think Mr. Sochet and through Szafranski
12 jumped into the breach prior to October, so somewhere
13 between May and October Szafranski, Sochet, Emess and
14 those folks got involved.
15 MS. TRENCH: Object to form and move to strike
16 Mr. Scherer's testimony.
17 A That's correct.
18 Q I'm asking you to assume that for the purpose of
19 getting in your mind how this may have happened.
20 A Okay. I understand.
21 Q All right. Great.
22 Now, I'd like to show you an e-mail from Jack
23 Simony to Brian Jedwab, April 24, '09.
24 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 47, Bates labeled
25 PCL59353.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 337
1 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 47 was
2 marked for identification.)
3 BY MR. SCHERER:
4 Q Now, I've highlighted the top of that. I'm
5 going to read this whole e-mail and then ask you some
6 questions about it. All right?
7 A Okay.
8 Q Have you ever seen this before?
9 A I have not.
10 Q It's from Jack Simony and I'm reading from the
11 bottom to the top, I can do it because there's only three
12 entries and I can do this.
13 Friday April 24, '09 to -- I don't know if
14 that's a Mr. Manella, I think. Gillad Colter and Brian
15 Jedwab and Murray Huberfeld, subject: Banyon. Tally, I
16 guess that's the guy's first name.
17 Please send 35,000 to Curtis Mallet, attention
18 Elliot Laur. And then it has -- jack Simony is
19 underneath there, I think he signed it above and below.
20 Do you see that?
21 A I do.
22 Q Elliot Laur and Curtis Mallet are the lawyers
23 that are representing Platinum and Centurion Level 3 in
24 our case here.
25 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 338
1 A Up until you told me that, I had no idea.
2 Q Not Susan but Susan's co-counsel, not Miss
3 Trench, excuse me.
4 MS. TRENCH: That's okay.
5 Q And then above there you see there's an e-mail
6 from Brian Jedwab to Jack Simony, same day, re: Banyon.
7 How you doing, Jack?
8 A I see that.
9 Q Jack says, what does he say there?
10 A Just trying to focus on the job at hand and
11 protect our investors. Thank you for being a friend,
12 it's just hard.
13 Q Well, what protection do you believe that Mr --
14 let me back up.
15 Do you believe that Jack Simony was trying to
16 protect Banyon -- I mean Platinum and Centurion and Level
17 3's investors at that time?
18 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
19 A Do I believe he was trying to protect the
20 investors, to some extent, yes; and to some extent, no.
21 Q Okay.
22 A It varied.
23 Q To the extent that he was trying to protect the
24 investors, do you read that as him trying to get their
25 money back?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 339
1 A Yes.
2 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
3 Q And it's just hard. What do you think -- what
4 does this e-mail mean to you, given the context of what
5 was going on there on April 24, '09?
6 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
7 A I have to answer this way, it is consistent with
8 what I considered to be Jack's dual roles during most of
9 what was going on. I think he was torn between two
10 factions. I think he felt a certain amount of loyalty -
11 I'm certain of this because we had discussions with
12 Mr. Preve about it. He felt some amount of loyalty to
13 the people at the three hedge funds and he was also
14 extremely attached and close to Frank Preve and he felt a
15 certain amount of loyalty to him.
16 So, as far as if you track his e-mails, what I
17 believe you will find is that in writing to the people
18 internally, like Mr. Jedwab, he is trying to state his
19 objective of protecting the Funds.
20 I think you'll see on the opposite end of the
21 spectrum in e-mails to Mr. Preve and on occasion to me,
22 he is trying to advocate his loyalty to us and his
23 attempts to protect us. So, I think he's the one of the
24 people that fell on both sides of the track.
25 Q Let me see if you still feel that way after I
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 340
1 tell you what he said in his deposition.
2 MS. TRENCH: Object, move to strike.
3 Q I want you to assume that he said in his
4 deposition that all of those good-boy trying to help
5 Preve and the Fund were his efforts to cause you,
6 pressure you to pay back money, and that he was
7 essentially lying to you guys about doing any further
8 deals, that they never had any intention of doing any
9 further deals and it was all an effort to get you to be
10 pressured to get their money back. He testified
11 something along those lines.
12 I want you to assume that what he testified is,
13 of course, in our case in deposition testimony.
14 A Okay.
15 MS. TRENCH: Object to form. Mischaracterizes
16 testimony.
17 Q All right. I want you to also assume that we
18 took the deposition of David Ring, who said he was Jack
19 Simony's childhood friend and he was his partner in
20 Whitehaven. David Ring, have you ever heard that name
21 before?
22 A Not until you mentioned it.
23 Q I mentioned it yesterday but you didn't know
24 about him; did you?
25 A I had no recollection of ever hearing the name
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 341
1 before.
2 Q He testified that in April of 2009 at Passover,
3 which I believe was April the 4th, that Jack told him it
4 was the worse Passover he had ever had because the Funds
5 were in trouble and that he was going to have to try to
6 quote, save the fund, closed quote.
7 A Okay.
8 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
9 Q Now, what do you think saving the Fund meant?
10 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
11 A To me it sounds like he's trying to save us,
12 save us - save the three Funds from the Ponzi scheme.
13 That's what it sounds like to me.
14 Q And trying to get their money back?
15 A Well, that's the only way to save them, correct,
16 to get their money back.
17 Q They had a hundred million dollars in April,
18 they had a hundred million out, 98 million and they got
19 it down to 18 million.
20 A Okay.
21 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
22 Q Seems like that was pretty good, seems like he
23 did a pretty good job of getting most of their money
24 out. Let me ask this --
25 A We did a good job of getting the money to him,
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 342
1 yes, with his assistance.
2 Q Whose money did you get?
3 A Other investors' money.
4 Q My clients put 190 million dollars in it between
5 that time and now.
6 Did you use any of that money to pay them back?
7 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
8 A Knowing the way the Ponzi scheme was operating,
9 I would have had to, yes, there was no other funds coming
10 in.
11 Q I want you to further assume that Mr. Ring, the
12 childhood friend of Jack Simony, testified that at the
13 end of 2009 that he was disappointed - or some words like
14 that, because he had, quote, saved the Fund, and he
15 didn't get recognized with bonuses from his bosses at
16 Platinum and Centurion and Level 3.
17 A Now you're --
18 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
19 A Now you're crossing into something that I do
20 know about.
21 Q Okay. Are you asking us to assume that you
22 don't know anything about what you have been testifying
23 to for two days?
24 A No, not for two days but for the last several
25 minutes all the things you're telling me are new to me.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 343
1 Q The guys over here are laughing but you were
2 great until now. They thought you were perfectly candid
3 until now. They think now you're lying your fanny off.
4 MS. TRENCH: Object to form, and move to strike
5 that from the record.
6 MR. SCHERER: I agree to strike that.
7 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Is that a stipulation?
8 MR. SCHERER: I'll stipulate that that was
9 terrible. I won't do that anymore.
10 a Just so I'm clear --
11 Q Yes, sir.
12 A The information that you just gave me for the
13 last several minutes, this Ring and Jack Simony saving
14 the day and all this other information that you were
15 providing to me, I'm hearing this for the first time from
16 you.
17 Q I know.
18 A That's what I meant from the statement.
19 As far as Jack Simony not being properly
20 compensated by the Funds, that is something that I do
21 know about because Mr. Preve and Mr. Simony both told me
22 that he felt he was working too hard for too little
23 amount of recognition from the Funds.
24 Now, he didn't say for not saving the day, but
25 he did say he was not being properly compensated.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 344
1 Q Mr. Ring also testified that in the golf season
2 of '09, which I presume living in New York has got to be
3 in the spring?
4 A Golf season?
5 Q Playing golf.
6 A I don't play golf, I don't know what the golf
7 season is.
8 Q I'm telling you what he testified to.
9 A Okay.
10 Q He testified that during the golf season of '09,
11 that Mr. Simony offered to split a one million dollar
12 settlement deal of your Ponzi scheme.
13 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
14 A At the time period that the Funds had basically
15 cut us off, were no longer funding with us, Jack on more
16 than several occasions -- one I can think of exactly, we
17 were sitting at the - I don't remember if it was the Ritz
18 or the Saint Regis on the beach? Which came first, the
19 Saint Regis or the Ritz, it changed hands?
20 Q Regis first, Ritz second.
21 A It was one or the other. We were sitting having
22 breakfast and we were talking about various ways that he
23 was attempting to get us new money because all through
24 this time period, you realize there should be e-mails
25 where Simony is telling Preve and me he's out attempting
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 345
1 to sell this investment strategy. And during this period
2 of time he is actually trying to invest with us.
3 Q He's telling you he's trying to invest with you?
4 A He is telling us that he wants to invest. As a
5 matter of fact, he once told me that he wanted to put his
6 father or mother or both into this.
7 Q And this was during this time from April through
8 the crash or before?
9 A The mother father thing, before; the other
10 people, after.
11 Q While we're talking about these folks who have
12 claimed in deposition that they were lying to you guys
13 just in order to pressure you so you would pay them
14 back --
15 MS. TRENCH: Object to form, and move to strike
16 the testimony.
17 Q I'm asking you that. I want you to assume they
18 testified to that, I'm talking about Simony and Ari Glass
19 and maybe some others, but for sure those two.
20 A Okay.
21 Q Do you have any recollection of a threatened SEC
22 action where Ari Glass -- where Jack Simony told you that
23 Ari had gone to the SEC?
24 A Yes.
25 Q What do you recall about that?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 346
1 A He didn't tell me he went to the SEC, he told he
2 was threatening to go to the SEC, that he contacted SEC
3 lawyers. There were a series of see e-mails to us as
4 well as telephone calls -- when I say us, I mean to me
5 and Mr. Preve from Jack Simony and also from
6 Mr. Nordlicht that Ari was becoming completely
7 uncontrollable, and he was threatening to bring the
8 entire set of Funds down, that he was threatening them
9 profusely with regard to going to the SEC to reporting
10 Mark and the like.
11 Q Do you know that that was a complete
12 fabrication --
13 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
14 Q -- among Simony, Ari Glass and Preve?
15 A Are you asking me whether I know it or believe
16 it?
17 Q No, no. I want you to -- I'm asking you, have
18 subsequently learned that that was a complete lie?
19 A No.
20 Q Mr. Glass testified in his deposition that he
21 did no such thing that they did this to pressure you and
22 Mr. Preve to pay them back more rapidly?
23 A Okay.
24 Q Did you pay them back more rapidly after this
25 threat about going to the SEC?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 347
1 A I'm sure the financial records would say that we
2 did, yes.
3 Q Do you remember how you restructured that the
4 100 million dollars that was owed - approximately 100
5 million dollars that was owed to them on the Ponzi
6 structured -- or Ponzi settlements?
7 A What we ultimately did was we agreed to give
8 them a certain amount of money each week. It was
9 originally - I think going to be 15 million dollars, but
10 there was no way initially we could sustain that kind of
11 pay-out, so we just started basically sending money on a
12 daily or other every other day basis, whatever we could
13 put together, that's what we were sending. We would send
14 a million -- there should be a ton of e-mails in this
15 regard where Jack Simony is saying send a million to
16 Platinum, send 500 to each of the little ones, he called
17 it, Centurion and Level 3.
18 By little ones, I believe he was referring to
19 the size of the amount of money that was actually owed at
20 that stage. I believe we owed the most to Platinum and
21 then Centurion and then Level 3.
22 So, we would regularly get e-mails like that and
23 occasionally we'd say, okay, we're sending two million
24 over and Jack would either send Mr. Preve or myself an
25 e-mail saying send a million here, send 500, 500, and
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 348
1 then he would send a later e-mail saying no, send the
2 whole two million to Platinum or break it up some other
3 way.
4 Q Did you at that point abandon any pretext of
5 following the payment streams that were due under the
6 papered Ponzi settlements?
7 A Yeah, that was out the window. As of April 13,
8 2009 it was gone.
9 Q Now, can you think of any reason why an investor
10 who thought he had cash locked up in TD Bank secured by
11 security interests would not foreclose on that but take
12 the money from you in dribs and drabs as you just
13 expressed?
14 A I can tell you why Mr. Simony told me they would
15 accept it.
16 Q Why?
17 A Because they were afraid if they declared us in
18 default it would be a run on the Funds in the form of
19 what the called redemptions and it would level the Funds.
20 Q Do you know that the Funds advised their
21 investors - and they had about a billion dollars worth of
22 them -- Let me back up. Hold on. I need help here.
23 That Platinum advised its investors in April
24 that you had defaulted on -- although it didn't say you,
25 it had reference there, investment in Florida in
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 349
1 settlements that had been defaulting on payments and that
2 they were taking a write down of the funds in April of
3 about 20 percent. Were you aware of that?
4 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
5 A I only became aware of that after the fact,
6 meaning after the crash.
7 Q Okay. And then they went on to tell the
8 investors that although you defaulted that you had
9 started to make payments again or something like that and
10 that they had every hope that they would be able to
11 salvage the investment.
12 A I did not know that portion until you just told
13 me that.
14 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
15 Q Do you know that at the end of the year or --
16 no, no, excuse me, in November, after the crash, that
17 they advised their investors that because of their
18 excellent risk management that they were able to salvage
19 the losses attributable to the Rothstein Ponzi?
20 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
21 Q Are you aware of that?
22 A I am aware of it right now that you're telling
23 me, not before.
24 Q All right. Let me show you an e-mail from Mike
25 Szafranski to Brian Jedwab, balance verification, on
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 350
1 January 25, '09.
2 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 48, PLATCENT0017952.
3 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 48 was
4 marked for identification.)
5 BY MR. SCHERER:
6 Q Let me ask you a few questions first and then
7 we'll talk about that exhibit.
8 Mr. Szafranski's job was to do what relative to
9 balances?
10 A He was what they referred to as the third party
11 verifier verifying the actual existence of funds, wires
12 in, wires out, and also identification of plaintiffs and
13 defendants.
14 Q How did you come to engage Mr. Szafranski in
15 this -- Back up.
16 Who did Mr. Szafranski work for or who engaged
17 him and paid him for this independent verification?
18 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
19 Q That's a bunch of questions. What was
20 Mr. Szafranski's job?
21 A He was a third party verifier for the purpose of
22 providing independent verification for the hedge funds,
23 that's where he first came from, for the purposes of
24 verifying both funds and parties.
25 Q Did you --
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 351
1 A And paperwork.
2 Q Did you know Mr. Szafranski prior to being
3 introduced to him?
4 A I did not.
5 Q And he was introduced to you by whom?
6 A By the hedge funds.
7 Q Do you know he had some relationship with one of
8 them, I think?
9 A He was a childhood friend of Gill Colter's.
10 Q Okay. How was he paid?
11 A You got to give me a time-frame. His pay scale
12 changed drastically when he became involved.
13 Q I know. His pay scale really changed when he
14 started into the Ponzi; right?
15 A Yes.
16 Q That was a bad question.
17 In the beginning how was he compensated for this
18 independent verification?
19 A To the best of my recollection he was paid on a
20 per deal reviewed basis and the payments were to be made
21 by Banyon.
22 Q Now, I want you to check out these verifications
23 and let's talk about that. I'm a little confused in
24 reading this exhibit.
25 It shows ending amounts that I have highlighted
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 352
1 there; you see that?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Let me back up. It says from Michael
4 Szafranski: I met with Mr. Rothstein on January 23, at
5 the time we signed on-line and verified the following
6 balances in the five accounts as follows. And then
7 there's these numbers there. And these numbers appear to
8 be 500 -- on the first one, 500,000 and change, 590,
9 almost 600,000; 100, 933, and 178,000. Do you see those
10 numbers?
11 A I see those numbers.
12 Q And then it says up above, amounts in thousands,
13 so I'm trying to figure out how to read that. If it's
14 amount in thousands then in the first account it would be
15 501 million, and in the next account it would be 593
16 million and 107 million and then 933 million, and then
17 178 million?
18 A Correct.
19 Q If you read it without the zeros there's 500,000
20 down to a low of 100,000?
21 A Right.
22 Q Either way -- let me ask this. Can you explain
23 this exhibit to me?
24 A I can't explain it to you one way or the other.
25 If it's my perception of it, is that what you want to
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 353
1 know?.
2 Q Let me ask you this. I mean, if in the
3 thousands means you add those three zeros like I just
4 did, that's way more than you ever represented that you
5 had in your phony trust accounts; isn't it?
6 A Those balances changed. If you look at the
7 e-mails, Mr. Scherer, and I'm sure you know this by now,
8 those amounts changed like the wind, depending upon what
9 I was being - what I believed I needed to show in the
10 accounts and also there are dozens of e-mails where
11 Mr. Preve is telling me what amounts need to be in the
12 accounts. So, it varies.
13 This particular e-mail, I remember seeing this
14 prior, and when I read it, amounts in thousands, I read
15 it as being incorrect, $501,000, $593,000, that kind of
16 thing.
17 I suspect that the reader of it had to have
18 interpreted it to be more as opposed to less. Because if
19 we only had half a million, half a million, a hundred,
20 900,000, 178,000, for lack of a better way to put it, I
21 should have been in handcuffs way before I was.
22 Q Mr. Rothstein, let me ask you this: If you add
23 in the thousands, even you didn't have the chutzpah to
24 say you had 2.5 billion in your Ponzi account; did you?
25 A I don't -- I know that we had balance statements
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 354
1 where we showed in the billion, I don't recall ever doing
2 one where we said two billion.
3 Q This would be two and a half billion.
4 A Right. The problem with this e-mail was, as
5 said to me by Mr. Preve was these balances are going to
6 create a problem one way or the other because it's either
7 showing way, way too much money or it's showing basically
8 what amounts to no money.
9 Q Let's talk about the shows that we talked about
10 this morning.
11 A Okay.
12 Q You took Mr. Simony to the bank at various times
13 to give him a show about how much money was in your Ponzi
14 trust account; correct?
15 A Correct.
16 Q So, that Mr. Simony would have had what was the
17 Ponzi amount that accurately reflected all of their
18 investments because nobody else was investing in the
19 Ponzi at this time.
20 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
21 Q Correct?
22 A Basically correct.
23 Q So, all we have to do is we have to go back to
24 January and see what the phony balances that you were
25 projecting the phony balance was and then compare it to
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 355
1 this either 2.5 billion 2.5 million schedule?
2 A If I'm understanding your question correctly,
3 yes, that is accurate. That would tell you whether or
4 not this is crazy one way or the other.
5 Q Well, we're in January of '09. And do you ever
6 recall anybody from Platinum, Centurion, Level 3, Simony
7 or Nordlicht or any of those guys coming back to you and
8 saying these verifications are crazy?
9 A I don't recall that, no. I recall Mr. Preve on
10 several occasions when he got balance statements, not
11 necessarily this one, sending me an e-mail saying this is
12 crazy, we're supposed to have at least a billion in this
13 account, make sure you adjust your numbers, telling me
14 what to do.
15 But I don't recall the people from the hedge
16 funds speaking to me directly telling me what the hell is
17 going on with these verifications.
18 Q Okay. They tell me it's time for an afternoon
19 break. Is that already with everybody?
20 (Thereupon, a short break was taken.)
21 MR. SCHERER: Now we're back on the record, and
22 it's finally working.
23 BY MR. SCHERER:
24 Q Mr. Rothstein, I'd like to show you an exhibit
25 we've already spoken about. And I neglected to ask you
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 356
1 about the second half of that e-mail. That's exhibit --
2 Would you read the number for us, please.
3 A It's Exhibit 46. Down at the bottom it says
4 Rothstein S 000117.
5 Q All right. And the second part of that e-mail
6 that's highlighted there is a reference to $11 million,
7 right? And you gave an answer that says there's two
8 parts. And you talked about the first part, I didn't
9 talk about the second.
10 A Okay.
11 Q Do you know what that $11 million reference is
12 about?
13 A Yes. My recollection is that's what I refer to
14 and they referred to as the Regent transaction. If you
15 examine all the e-mails you'll see that during the course
16 of the Ponzi different factions of the hedge funds were
17 investing in side deals with us.
18 In this particular deal what was occurring was
19 there was an investment in a deal while we were fighting
20 with the hedge funds by Mr. Huberfeld. I believe
21 Mr. Nordlicht was involved in it. Jack Simony was
22 involved at least in orchestrating the deal and Frank
23 Preve was involved in it.
24 Q Was that a particularly lucrative transaction in
25 terms of the return?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 357
1 A Yes. I don't remember the exact terms, but it
2 was one of the most lucrative deals I believe we ever
3 offered.
4 Q Do you know whether Frank Preve was involved in
5 Regent also on the side?
6 A I believe that the Regent deal involved all the
7 people that I just mentioned, including Mr. Preve. I
8 just don't know which level each of them participated.
9 Q We may get into that in a few minutes.
10 A As a matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about
11 it -- I don't mean to interrupt you, but there is an
12 e-mail. You should have one, where Preve is trying to
13 tell the people involved in the Regent deal that he's not
14 sticking with this particular format because other people
15 involved other than him are not entitled to as much
16 interest as they would be achieving based upon certain
17 things that they did during the course of the transaction
18 that changed the funding dates and the payback dates.
19 Q Was there some change retroactive again after
20 the deal was supposedly consummated with the punitive
21 plaintiff and the punitive defendant?
22 A I believe that they agreed to something, but I
23 don't remember what it was. I do remember that we paid
24 off.
25 Q If we have time I'll go back to the nuts and
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 358
1 bolts of that. We have it here. We're going to try to
2 get through this and get out of here at 5:00, maybe even
3 a little bit before.
4 Let me show you an e-mail that is from you to
5 Mr. Preve dated April 8, 2009. You CCed George Levin.
6 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 49, Bates labeled FC
7 112310-0161648/1.
8 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 49 was
9 marked for identification.)
10 BY MR. SCHERER:
11 Q Actually it starts out at the bottom there with
12 an e-mail from Mr. Preve to you and then from you back to
13 Mr. Preve. And its subject is a PPM. Mr. Preve says, I
14 know your plate is full, but assuming we have a business
15 going forward, I need to get the PPM back to them today.
16 I really don't think it impacts your side of the business
17 at all in terms of revelations.
18 A Yes.
19 Q All right. What did you take that to mean?
20 A I'm going to have --
21 Q Let me ask you this: First of all, the PPM
22 they're referring to, do you know what PPM that would be
23 in April?
24 A It was the private placement memorandum that
25 they were putting together I believe with your clients.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 359
1 Q That would be the Banyon Income Fund placement?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Now, do you know that Mr. Von Allmen and his
4 family were about 50 to 60 million of the 100 million in
5 the Banyon Income Fund?
6 A I knew that it was something to that effect,
7 yes.
8 Q And then he also was involved in the Razorback
9 and D-3 with his family in addition?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Clockwork wasn't involved in the Banyon Income
12 Fund that Balamore put together, but they were involved
13 in the later transactions?
14 A Yes. They became sort of warring factions over
15 the deal, yes.
16 Q So you think the reference there is to that
17 pre-purchase memorandum of the Banyon Income Fund that
18 Balamore was putting together?
19 A Yes.
20 Q The thing that says, I don't think it impacts
21 your side of the business at all in terms of revelations,
22 do you see that?
23 A Yes.
24 Q What did you take him to mean by "in terms of
25 revelations"?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 360
1 A I read it as it's not revealing anything that
2 will create any issues for me, so they're going to go
3 ahead and move it along. What he was telling me was to
4 just go through it quickly. They needed to get it out.
5 There's not a lot in there that concerns me.
6 Q In terms of revelations, is that Ponzi speak for
7 you to be worried about that they would discover that you
8 guys were involved in a fraud?
9 (Objection to the form was made.)
10 THE WITNESS: Yes. It's that there's nothing in
11 there that I needed to be concerned about being
12 revealed to anybody.
13 BY MR. SCHERER:
14 Q Isn't revelations a Ponzi speak?
15 (Objection to the form was made.)
16 THE WITNESS: Yes. Based upon the way you're
17 using the term, yes, it is Ponzi speak.
18 BY MR. SCHERER:
19 Q Okay. Because we established yesterday you
20 didn't say to each other, They'll discover our Ponzi.
21 You would use little terms like "business at all in terms
22 of revelations"?
23 A Yes. What you'll see frequently in e-mails from
24 Mr. Preve to me where he's trying to keep me calm where
25 he uses, to use your term, Ponzi speak to let me know
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 361
1 that he doesn't feel that there's any risk of being found
2 out.
3 Q Okay. Let's go up to your e-mail back to him.
4 And then you say, Make sure you do exact same default
5 letter to Platinum?
6 A Yes.
7 Q They are really the same company and we must
8 treat them as such?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Time to let them in on the fact that we know the
11 secret?
12 A Correct.
13 Q It is a serious pressure point for them. Murray
14 illegally cannot be involved in both?
15 A Yes.
16 Q All right. Would you explain what you meant by
17 that e-mail?
18 A Yes. As I understood it, all of the three funds
19 Centurion, Platinum, and Level 3 had to have a certain
20 wall, if you will, between them with regard to decision
21 making, how certain business financial transactions were
22 run through, separation of investors and the like.
23 It was important as told to me by Jack Simony on
24 multiple occasions and on several occasions by
25 Mr. Nordlicht, that Murray be seen as the head of
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 362
1 Centurion, that that was his fund, and not involved with
2 Platinum or Level 3 when in fact we had been repeatedly
3 told by Mr. Glass, Mr. Nordlicht and Mr. Simony that
4 Murray was calling the shots with regard to all of them,
5 and that based upon each one of them telling us at
6 different points in time the same thing, it was time to
7 let them know that we knew Murray was involved.
8 It became more clear once that 11 million deal
9 was going through because despite the fact that other
10 funds were cutting us off, Murray was still investing
11 with us through other means.
12 Q Do you know whether that was a part of the
13 scheme to fund your Ponzi enough to keep it going rather
14 than crashing at that time?
15 A It was --
16 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
17 THE WITNESS: The purpose of that, of what we
18 were doing to the funds was to apply pressure to them
19 so that they would give us an A plus rating when our
20 potential new investors contacted them.
21 The key to securing new investment dollars to
22 keep the Ponzi alive was a positive reference, a no
23 default reference, from the people that we were doing
24 business with up until that point. Without that we
25 would not have been able to secure new money.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 363
1 BY MR. SCHERER:
2 Q Do you have information that they in fact were
3 giving positive credit references to potential investors?
4 A I know that from multiple sources, yes.
5 Q Would you tell us what those multiple sources
6 are, please.
7 A Yes. I was told by Frank Preve and by George
8 Levin that it's a great strategy, they've had no problems
9 with us, from the people at Platinum, at Level 3, at
10 Centurion, or a representative of each or all.
11 I was told by Ari Glass that we got, again, a
12 perfect representation from whoever they were speaking
13 to. I believe the funds were speaking to either Jack
14 Simony or Mark Nordlicht if my recollection serves me
15 correctly.
16 I heard this from Preve, from Levin, from Glass,
17 from Simony, and I heard it in person actually in my
18 office from Mr. Nordlicht that they had taken care of it
19 and they expected that when we got new money in that I
20 would be making sure that they were getting paid.
21 Q Do you have any knowledge of whether or not any
22 of the people that you mentioned had any contact with the
23 new feeder funds that you mentioned, including Discala,
24 Von Allmen, or Clockwork, or any of those people?
25 A I was told by Mr. Discala and separately by
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 364
1 Mr. Von Allmen that they had spoken to people at the fund
2 or funds and were told that it was what they believed to
3 be an excellent investment strategy and they've had no
4 problems with us.
5 Q How about Mr. Simony, did he ever tell you the
6 same thing?
7 A Yes. Mr. Simony was -- I should have included
8 him in that group. Mr. Simony was part of the Glass,
9 Preve, Nordlicht, Simony group of people who said that
10 they had done what they were supposed to of done.
11 Q When they said they had done what they were
12 supposed to have done, I would like to get you to be
13 specific relative to the Clockwork, any of the Clockwork
14 representatives. And let's start with AJ Discala and
15 whether you had any communication with Simony or
16 Nordlicht regarding conversations with Mr. Discala or any
17 of those due diligence people.
18 A The conversations --
19 MS. TRENCH: Before you continue I move to
20 strike the testimony that's being given to the extent
21 that it relies on hearsay from non-fund individuals.
22 MR. SCHERER: Well, let's start with fund
23 individuals.
24 Was that Miss Trench? Thank you.
25 BY MR. SCHERER:
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 365
1 Q I would like you to first of all limit your
2 testimony to the fund individuals that you identified,
3 that being Nordlicht, Simony, Ari Glass and communication
4 with potential investors or feeder funds that were doing
5 due diligence during that time.
6 A Okay. Let me see if I can do this in an order
7 that's easy to follow. Ari Glass, Jack Simony, Mark
8 Nordlicht all told me on separate occasions when
9 questioned and pressed by me, that they had done, quote,
10 unquote, what they were supposed to do, that they had
11 given us a positive credit rating, a thumbs up to our
12 future potential investors.
13 Subsequent to that I spoke to AJ Discala and to
14 Mr. Von Allmen. I don't remember where I was when I was
15 speaking to Doug, but I have a recollection of it
16 actually being in front of my home because I lived down
17 the street from him at that time and he was out doing his
18 walk.
19 And I asked if he had spoken to anyone from the
20 funds yet, and he told me yes, and that everything was
21 looking great; that he had spoke to people from the
22 funds; and that they thought it was an excellent strategy
23 and they'd be looking forward to doing business with us.
24 The conversation with Mr. Discala I remember
25 more clearly because we were in my restaurant in Bova
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 366
1 having cocktails and we were drinking to the fact that he
2 had gotten an excellent rating from the funds. At that
3 time you probably can pinpoint when this occurred if you
4 get my cell phone records because there should be
5 immediate calls to Mr. Preve. I stepped aside and called
6 Mr. Preve and said, We're good to go.
7 Q Do you have a recollection of whether this was
8 before, or when was this relative to this April to the
9 end of October time-frame we're talking about?
10 A It was prior to the funds investing with us in
11 significant dollars, but prior to the crash.
12 Q By "the funds," you mean the new feeder funds?
13 A Sorry. I garbled that. Prior to the new feeder
14 funds investing with us and prior to the crash. It was
15 in between that time period.
16 Q Let me show you our next exhibit. It's a letter
17 from Frank Preve. Well, first of all, it's a letter from
18 you to Frank Preve and then his back to you. Go ahead.
19 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 50, Bates labeled FP
20 112310-0161400/1
21 MS. TRENCH: What's the date on that?
22 MR. SCHERER: April 8, 2009.
23 MS. TRENCH: Thank you.
24 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 50 was
25 marked for identification.)
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 367
1 BY MR. SCHERER:
2 Q And you state, Hey, Triple G. Do not forget to
3 let Jack know that we know that they are all in this
4 together, i.e., Mira knowing about the secret deal with
5 Murray. What the fuck? Who the hell does he think he is
6 fucking with?
7 Did I read that correctly?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Now --
10 A Colorful, I think we said.
11 Q Mr. Preve writes you back, quote, He was shocked
12 when I brought it up. We will have the little one-on-one
13 with you, me, and he later. The grand question is what
14 is going to make all of this right. And then a bunch of
15 question marks.
16 A Okay.
17 Q Okay. So the "he was shocked," who did you
18 think he was referring to?
19 A Jack.
20 Q All right. And the "little one-on-one with
21 you," did you have that little one-on-one with Frank
22 Preve?
23 A It was with Frank Preve and Jack Simony.
24 Q Both?
25 A Yes. That's why it says you, me, and he.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 368
1 Q And then "the grand question is what is going to
2 make of all of this," what do you think he meant by that?
3 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
4 BY MR. SCHERER:
5 Q What do you think he meant by that?
6 A What he meant by it was that, What are we going
7 to all do together to avoid the Ponzi from exploding in
8 all of our faces.
9 Q Did you talk to Jack about that as well?
10 A About what?
11 Q About this being shocked about Murray being in
12 the Regent deal?
13 A That Jack was shocked?
14 Q Yeah. It says, He was shocked when I brought it
15 up. That would be Jack.
16 A Perhaps if I just explain to you what was going
17 on.
18 Q Okay.
19 A At this stage we are very close to the Ponzi
20 imploding. I as you can tell from my, quote, unquote,
21 colorful language am more than a little bit perturbed.
22 If you track my e-mails, I'm consistent. When I'm upset
23 I am extremely vulgar.
24 At this stage we were having to pressure the
25 funds to make sure that they lied to our new investors
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 369
1 and gave us a positive credit rating. I mean, let's face
2 it. We were in default. We weren't paying them
3 anymore. We wanted them to say we were continually
4 paying them and they thought we were an excellent
5 investment strategy regardless of what they thought.
6 Q But you were in default?
7 A I understand that, but that didn't mean I did
8 not want them to lie. They were going to blow up along
9 with us, Mr. Scherer, so they had every reason to lie.
10 Q While we're talking about lying, do you know
11 that indeed Mr. Simony feigned like he was shocked,
12 because not only did he know about it, he was a profit
13 participating partner in the Regent deal?
14 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 BY MR. SCHERER:
17 Q What did you come to learn about the Regent deal
18 and about whether Mr. Simony was shocked or not?
19 A I came to learn that he was not shocked about
20 anything because him and Frank were in this together,
21 that portion of it. There was no reason for him to be
22 shocked. If he was going to be shocked at anything, it
23 was that I was ready to explode.
24 Q All right.
25 A Let me make sure I finish this.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 370
1 Q Go ahead. Have you finished your answer,
2 Mr. Rothstein?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q Thank you. Would you finish your answer for us,
5 please.
6 A Yes. The whole purpose behind this series of
7 e-mails is -- and there are other e-mails that are far
8 more concise than this in existence between all the
9 players where Preve and I are talking about the fact that
10 we must do whatever is necessary to secure a positive
11 rating both in terms of excellent investment strategy and
12 no default from the funds.
13 There are also e-mails that I directly recall
14 between Mr. Preve, Simony, and Nordlicht and more to
15 Nordlicht where he is actually saying to Mr. Nordlicht in
16 basically no uncertain times, Listen, you're going to be
17 contacted by BIF's other investors - at this particular
18 e-mail I think it was Balamore directly - and you're
19 going to be contacted, and it's critical that you give
20 them a, quote, unquote, proper, accurate, whatever words
21 he used, rating about us because it will help you get out
22 of this, get you out of this quicker. It will be good
23 for all involved. It's fairly clear, actually I think
24 it's 100 percent clear, as to what was going on at the
25 time.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 371
1 The funds were going to give us a positive
2 credit rating. We were going to use as much of the new
3 money coming in to pay them off, and in fact that's what
4 we did.
5 Q But weren't you in default every single month
6 from April all through the crash in terms of the
7 agreement to repay them at a certain level?
8 A Yeah. The minute I changed payments we were in
9 default, yes.
10 Q Well, then are you aware that there was some
11 kind of paperwork that Banyon and the funds did that you
12 would pay a minimum of 15 million a month, plus another
13 million-and-a-half of the others, so that you'd pay
14 $16-and-a-half million a month every month thereafter to
15 stay in compliance with their new documents; are you
16 aware of that?
17 MS. TRENCH: Object to the form.
18 THE WITNESS: I remember discussing it with
19 certain parties. I do not remember actually seeing
20 the paperwork.
21 BY MR. SCHERER:
22 Q Are you aware that the forensic audit shows that
23 you never hit those numbers ever once from that point on?
24 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
25 BY MR. SCHERER:
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 372
1 Q Almost, but not quite.
2 A I could have told you we didn't hit it. You
3 didn't need to spend the money on a forensic. I could
4 tell you that.
5 Q You were close, though, because you got them
6 back everything except 18 million.
7 A But we were doing it based upon our ability to
8 pay. At this stage, Mr. Scherer, you have to understand
9 we're frantic. We are just trying to get whatever money
10 we can get to them as quickly as possible to keep them
11 quiet. They have every reason to do that because
12 otherwise they're not going to get their money back. And
13 on top of that we are also having to pay off other
14 investors that are due. As Sochet and Von Allmen and the
15 like come in they're going to be due money also, so we
16 have to structure this in a way that allowed us to pay
17 everybody what we were supposed to pay. And obviously
18 you know the end result, we weren't able to pay anybody
19 and it exploded.
20 Q Let me show you an e-mail from Mr. Szafranski to
21 Ari Glass CC Will Slota and Jack Simony of Whitehaven.
22 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 51, bates labeled
23 PLATCENT001805710.
24 MS. TRENCH: And the date if you would.
25 MR. SCHERER: January 30, 2009.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 373
1 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 51 was
2 marked for identification.)
3 BY MR. SCHERER:
4 Q And Mr. Szafranski said that he had signed on to
5 your TD on-line and verified that account 5104 contained
6 $178,847?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Now, do you know what account 5104 is from
9 memory?
10 A From memory, no.
11 Q Okay. If I told you it was an account that was
12 supposed to have held the Platinum and Centurion funds, I
13 would like you to assume that. And I'd ask you, did you
14 ever have a Ponzi balance, and that would be a balance in
15 any of their trust accounts that reflected only $178,000
16 in it?
17 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
18 THE WITNESS: No. If you'd like I can explain
19 what occurred here.
20 BY MR. SCHERER:
21 Q I'd like. So let me ask again since there's an
22 objection to the question.
23 Can you explain what occurred here?
24 A Yes. What occurred was, on occasion, this
25 happened unfortunately more than once, when
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 374
1 Mr. Szafranski was in my office from time to time once he
2 became aware of the Ponzi scheme, we would sign on to the
3 real bank to look to see what monies we had and how much
4 money we needed to bring in.
5 It was more of me just kind of going on and
6 trying to see where we were at and who I could pay when
7 and what was going on.
8 On several occasions Mr. Szafranski for whatever
9 reason when we're looking at the real screen is writing
10 down some semblance of what he's seeing at that time and
11 sending it out, which of course generally resulted in
12 someone having a conniption.
13 Q Because they expected it to be 178 million, not
14 178,000, right?
15 A Something to that effect, yes.
16 Q Did anybody, Mr. Glass or Mr. Simony or anybody
17 ever come back to you following this January e-mail and
18 ask you what in the world is going on with this account
19 having only $178,000 in it?
20 A They never addressed it to me, no.
21 Q Well, did Mr. Preve ever address to you that
22 they had come to him and said, you know, Szafranski has
23 verified numbers that are off by 10 times?
24 A I recall a series of e-mails where Mr. Preve
25 wrote to me -- well, actually he was writing to Mike and
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 375
1 copied me or sent it to me saying, What the hell is going
2 on? This can't be. These accounts are supposed to have
3 X dollars in it or whatever he was saying, and then a
4 corrected balance sheet was eventually sent out.
5 Q Let me show you the next exhibit. It's an
6 e-mail from Szafranski. It's more of the same, Platinum
7 verifications in January of '09.
8 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 52 under Bates label cut
9 in half, looks PLATCENT001783.
10 MR. SCHERER: It looks like 82. They'll know
11 what it is.
12 MR. KOPAS: The date of that is January 30,
13 2009.
14 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 52 was
15 marked for identification.)
16 BY MR. SCHERER:
17 Q This appears to be another Mr. Szafranski
18 verification of trust account balances, in addition
19 verification on deals that are referenced there as G and
20 a bunch of numbers, right?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q And he verified the cases and that the
23 appropriate forms were signed by the plaintiffs and
24 defendant and they signed on-line and then he verified
25 that your trust account contained a balance of 598,000.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 376
1 Do you see that?
2 A Yeah. I think he's trying to say because it
3 says, all amounts in 000 dollars. He's trying to say
4 598 million.
5 Q Okay. Well, if that's so how does he reconcile
6 that with the former balance that we talked about a few
7 minutes ago that had 2.5 billion? Did you spend that
8 much between January, the middle of January, and the end
9 of January?
10 A No. If you look at our balance statements, and
11 it was a point I was trying to make with the last
12 e-mail. I'm not sure I made it completely. That is
13 there were times when Mr. Szafranski wrote down balances
14 that I couldn't tell you whether they were there. I
15 don't know whether he was looking at the screen and saw
16 perhaps in that that one of our accounts had $178,000 in
17 it or he combined accounts or looked at totals or just
18 wrote down whatever the heck he was thinking of at the
19 time. But there were occasions where his balances did
20 not match the balances that he was supposed to be
21 furnishing.
22 Q I want to know whether or not anybody on that
23 e-mail chain you have there in front of you, that's
24 Mr. Simony and Glass and -- Who else do they send that
25 to?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 377
1 A Will Sloter.
2 Q Whether any of those folks got back to you or
3 got back to Frank Preve who got back to you to say, How
4 do you reconcile 590 million in the account at the end of
5 January when you had billions in the account, you know,
6 just a few days before?
7 A I have no recollection of them coming back to me
8 about that particular issue.
9 Q You would agree that that's more than a rounding
10 error?
11 A Even in my math, yes.
12 Q Let me show you the next exhibit. It's an
13 e-mail from George Levin to Ari Glass, Nordlicht, Jack
14 Simony, you, and it's dated April 16, '09.
15 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 53 FP0163402/1 FP, Frank
16 Preve.
17 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's No. 53 was marked for
18 identification.)
19 BY MR. SCHERER:
20 Q I would like you to pay attention to the
21 highlighted, you can read the whole thing, of course.
22 Dear Ari. This is George writing it, although I'm not
23 sure he wrote it. But it said from George. Therefore,
24 the following are our requirements for getting our
25 businesses back on track, I hope you can support me in
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 378
1 this effort because it will be to the benefit of everyone
2 if we can move forward rather than spend all night
3 gnashing our teeth. Do you see that?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And then he goes on to say, On April the 20th
6 funding is done. All impounded funds will be released.
7 A Yes.
8 Q These terms will be memorialized in writing and
9 such writing will eliminate the current ROFR, which I
10 believe to be right of first refusal, and then all credit
11 inquiries will be responded to, quote, as agreed, closed
12 quote. Do you see that?
13 A Yes, I do.
14 Q Are those the credit inquiries you were making
15 reference to previously?
16 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
17 THE WITNESS: Yes. This is the polite version
18 of the same request.
19 BY MR. SCHERER:
20 Q What do you understand paragraph 7 and 8 to
21 represent, 6, 7, and 8 to represent?
22 I had an objection there, so I want you to tell
23 me what you believe this to have meant.
24 A I don't know what 6 means, all impounded funds
25 will be released. Number 7 and number 8, number 7 is
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 379
1 talking about the fact that the funds had a right of
2 first refusal on all our settlement deals. We would have
3 to send them to them for either acceptance or rejection
4 before they went anywhere else and we wanted to be
5 released from that. The bottom line was what I'll refer
6 to as the survival term, how both they and our group
7 would survive this.
8 Q I thought, Mr. Rothstein, you testified that as
9 of April 13th you had frozen all of the payments to the
10 New York funds. And so I presume all impounded funds
11 will be released, all underlined, might make reference to
12 the stopping of those payments.
13 MS. TRENCH: Form.
14 THE WITNESS: It might, but I don't know for
15 certain that it does. You are correct. I did
16 testify that as the 13th we stopped paying them. But
17 I wasn't part of actually drafting this. I don't
18 believe I was. So I don't know exactly what he means
19 by -- I don't recall it ever being referred to as
20 impounded funds. But that's certainly possible that
21 that's what he meant.
22 BY MR. SCHERER:
23 Q Let me ask this: During this period of time
24 were you in discussions with Mr. Preve and Levin and
25 anybody from the funds or relative to what it was going
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 380
1 to take to get the Ponzi payments to be made to them that
2 had been stopped as of April the 13th?
3 A Yes.
4 MR. KOPAS: Object to form.
5 THE WITNESS: Mr. Preve and I were negotiating
6 with them. Actually Preve was. We were talking
7 about it. You'll see above in the non-highlighted
8 portions of this letter that we were demanding of
9 them, and this is a part that I was involved in, that
10 they will agree to fund no less than $20 million
11 through cases, NLT meaning no later than April 20th.
12 We felt that when we did our math if they had
13 funded $20 million, we would then just simply turn
14 those funds around, bring them up to speed as to
15 payments. So that was the methodology we were going
16 to utilize to quote, unquote, release impounded
17 funds.
18 BY MR. SCHERER:
19 Q It says that they agreed to buy an additional
20 $5.5 million cases in paragraph 3. And, you know, it
21 talked about, We will release 5 million and so on. You
22 see that?
23 A I do.
24 Q And that they will agree to put 20 million back
25 into new cases in April, right?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 381
1 MR. KOPAS: Object to form; mischaracterizes
2 what the e-mail says.
3 MR. SCHERER: What's wrong with the form?
4 MS. TRENCH: You said they will agree to fund
5 20.
6 MR. SCHERER: Well, let's see what it says.
7 BY MR. SCHERER:
8 Q Centurion will agree to buy an additional 5.5 m
9 in cases NLT, April 20th and Plat Centurion will release
10 up to 5 million in collection account funds owed to
11 Banyon Funding/Banyon Investments.
12 Do you see that?
13 A I do.
14 Q Did I read that correctly?
15 A You did.
16 Q Now, do you know whether any of that ever
17 happened?
18 A No, it didn't. Part of it did, but I don't
19 recall it ever happening.
20 Q Let me show you an April 18th e-mail, April 18,
21 '09. And it's an e-mail that starts out down at the
22 bottom, George Levin, and then -- Go ahead. I'm sorry.
23 MR. KOPAS: This is Plaintiff's 54. It's Bates
24 number that begins FP and ends in 163961/1. From
25 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 54 was
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 382
1 marked for identification.)
2 BY MR. SCHERER:
3 Q Reading from the bottom to the top, it's from
4 George Levin, 19th of April, '09, subject, Re: Still not
5 heard back. And actually down below it's Ari to George.
6 He still hasn't heard back. Do you see that down at the
7 bottom?
8 A Yes. I recall this.
9 Q You recall the e-mail? And then George writes,
10 to Ari, Frank goes to church on Sunday.
11 Do you see that?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And then you got from Ari to George saying, I
14 certainly respect that. When is that done? Should I
15 have our lawyer call you instead? I'm afraid of having
16 it all left for one day. Are you available to talk for a
17 couple of minutes? Ari Glass.
18 A I see all that.
19 Q Then up at the top it's from George to Frank,
20 Still not heard back. And the e-mail says, Frank have
21 you touched bases with this crazy man? If so, then what
22 does he want to inject a lawyer into this? I had a
23 meeting with Barry after his luncheon with Doug Von
24 Allmen. Doug is ready to invest 25 million along with
25 another 25 million from Barry's clients. Barry still
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 383
1 believes he will have 10 million to 20 million by the end
2 of the month. He also told me that Larry is going to New
3 York to finalize the PPM on Tuesday. Did Scott ever give
4 Rick what he needed, a signed representative agreement?
5 Now, let me break that up. Do you know about
6 the reference to Doug Von Allmen and Barry's lunch with
7 Doug Von Allmen? What do you know about that?
8 A I do know about it. I know about the entire
9 thing. I just want to make sure that the record is
10 clear. Before when I said, I know about this, you said,
11 you've seen this e-mail. And that's incorrect. I had
12 not seen this e-mail until today, but I do remember what
13 was going on.
14 Q Tell us what was going on at this time.
15 A There were frantic negotiations going on between
16 the Banyon folks, meaning Preve and Levin, and the Fund
17 people, meaning Ari Glass, Nordlicht, and Simony, to try
18 to get us to release funds, try to figure out what they
19 were going to do. I believe they were trying to get
20 Banyon to sign a bunch of new paperwork according to what
21 Frank was telling me. And they were also trying to make
22 sure obviously that they gave us the credit reference
23 that we were requesting.
24 What happened was Ari was, although now you're
25 telling me that it was all a sham, Ari was crazy. I
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 384
1 mean, he was literally off kilter during this time
2 period. He had a couple of times -- and Ari and I always
3 had a very, very good rapport. I had conversations with
4 him during this time period where I had to hold the phone
5 away from my head because he was screaming into the phone
6 so loud.
7 So what was occurring was Ari was frantic
8 waiting to hear back from George -- excuse me, from
9 Frank. Ari had a reporting deadline coming up,
10 Mr. Scherer, that he had to let his shareholders know
11 something, his investors, one way or the other regarding
12 something.
13 Q You know that because he told you that?
14 A I know that because Ari, Jack Simony, and Frank
15 all told me that.
16 Q Do you know whether that was true or not?
17 A No, I have no idea. I'm just telling you what I
18 know to have been going on as far as what they were
19 telling me.
20 Q All right.
21 A Obviously George responded, he goes to church.
22 And Ari throws this line in about having the lawyer
23 call. And then George gets involved, really gets
24 involved obviously, and is trying to make sure that Frank
25 is aware that we're going to be getting money from other
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 385
1 people. What do we basically need to do with Ari to keep
2 him calm. That's basically what's going on.
3 Q Do you have a recollection of whether or not
4 this is the first time you heard that Mr. Von Allmen was
5 contemplating an investment into the Banyon income fund?
6 A I actually heard that from Mr. Preve before
7 this, before Ari was going crazy.
8 Q Do you know whether the fact that Mr. Von Allmen
9 was about to invest 25 million as it says in this e-mail
10 was communicated to the people at Platinum and Centurion?
11 A I don't know whether it was communicated to them
12 or not. It was communicated to me.
13 Q Okay. And at any time there in April did you
14 ever communicate that to any of the Platinum people?
15 A At various points in time before we secured new
16 investors I had told Ari on separate occasions, Jack
17 Simony and Mark Nordlicht that they should just take a
18 deep breath that we were getting new investors and we'd
19 get this all worked out. I was trying to keep everything
20 calm.
21 Q Okay. Let me show you another document that's a
22 chain of e-mails on April the 30th through May the 2nd.
23 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 55, E228396 to 97.
24 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 55 was
25 marked for identification.)
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 386
1 BY MR. SCHERER:
2 Q I would like you to refer to the first page of
3 the e-mail from George Levin to you and Mr. Preve dated
4 Saturday, the 2nd of May '09. You see that, the part I
5 have highlighted? However, at this late date we need to
6 get Doug's funds, paren, which are sitting in cash
7 waiting for these documents, closed parens, in the game.
8 You see that?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And then you write back, I completely agree as
11 to getting Doug's money in right away.
12 Do you recall that e-mail chain?
13 A I recall this going on. I was copied on it. I
14 don't have a specific recollection as to this.
15 Q All right. I'm going to ask you to concentrated
16 on efforts to get Doug's money in. And, you know, who
17 knew about Doug's money coming in and whether there were
18 any meetings involving you and the people at Banyon and
19 the people at Platinum and Centurion regarding Doug's
20 impending investment. But I'm going to show you some
21 e-mails to help that along a little bit.
22 A Okay.
23 Q I'm going to show you an e-mail on April 27,
24 '09.
25 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 56, Bates labeled
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 387
1 beginning FP ending 165897/1 and /2.
2 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 56 was
3 marked for identification.)
4 BY MR. SCHERER:
5 Q I'm going to direct your attention to the second
6 page down at the bottom. There's an e-mail from Barry --
7 well BRB, which is -- Do you recognize that at Ballamor?
8 A Do you I recognize that?
9 Q Do you know who BRB is?
10 A Sure.
11 Q Who is that?
12 A Barry Bekkedam.
13 Q To George Lavin. It says, FYI, Von Allmen -
14 30 million between now and early next week. Von Allmen
15 kids, five to 10 million between now and 5/15 proposed
16 now exact.
17 And then up at the top there's an e-mail from
18 George to you, Re: Cash. And it says, okay, guys. We
19 now need to sit down, paren, Frank, closed paren, and see
20 what is coming in from all sources. Barry's is enclosed,
21 ours from all sources. The way I see it, we should have
22 Scott cleaned up totally in the next 10 days. 50 million
23 from Barry plus 40 million from us, some reinvestment
24 from the 40 thieves. Frank, please verify my thoughts.
25 First of all, who is the 40 thieves?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 388
1 A It's the hedge funds.
2 Q And the Von Allmen money is again referenced
3 there?
4 A It is.
5 Q Now, I'd like to go to the first page, and it's
6 an e-mail from you to Frank Preve. You see that? And
7 you see you start talking about, If negotiations with the
8 idiot goes well today we should be cleared up. Are who
9 are you referring to there on the first -- I don't have
10 it highlighted.
11 A That's okay. We should be cleared up this week
12 and use the additional funds -- we should be cleared up.
13 I believe I'm referring to paying off the people we still
14 owe money to, which would have been the hedge funds.
15 Q Nobody else was in these deals at that point;
16 right?
17 A Right.
18 Q Because the hedge funds had an exclusive with
19 Banyon?
20 A No, that exclusive was never exclusive.
21 Q Well, I mean, wasn't the Ponzi funds through
22 Banyon just hedge -- I'm not talking about what you were
23 doing, but I was talking about what Banyon was doing
24 exclusively through the hedge funds up through April?
25 A Almost exclusively except for side deals.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 389
1 Q The Regent side deal?
2 A Yeah. And I think -- I don't know the timing.
3 You have to look at the LMB transactions also. I don't
4 remember the timing of those, Mr. Scherer.
5 Q I think that was in February of '09. So the LMB
6 would be a side deal as well?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Let me see if I can get back to this e-mail. He
9 says down there, and I have it highlighted, I pay off all
10 outstanding clients. Frank, you have the list. I then
11 bring Platinum, Centurion and Level 3 current.
12 See that?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Now, do you recall that there was a meeting in
15 your office with the Platinum and Centurion people. That
16 would be Nordlicht, maybe Simony, you, regarding Mr. Von
17 Allman's proposed investment into the Ponzi scheme?
18 A Can you give me a time frame?
19 Q Yes, sir. On April 27th, about the end of
20 April. And I'm going to show you an e-mail about when
21 that meeting might have occurred, but I want to get it
22 generally speaking.
23 A There was absolutely what I would call an
24 important meeting that involved at one point in time all
25 those people you referenced and immediately subsequent to
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 390
1 that a private meeting between Mr. Nordlicht and I, yes.
2 Q Was there a discussion with him about
3 Mr. Von Allmen and his investment and what that might
4 mean to you and the Ponzi scheme as far as going forward?
5 A There was a discussion to the best of my
6 recollection between all the parties as to what the new
7 infusion of cash coming from Mr. Von Allmen and others
8 would mean to getting everybody paid down, yes.
9 Q Well, I'm referring specifically to
10 Mr. Von Allmen and what his investment might mean. Do
11 you remember any discussion with the funds concerning
12 Mr. Von Allman's proposed involvement?
13 A Mr. Preve told the group as assembled we had a
14 local billionaire, Mr. Von Allmen, who was going to be
15 taking over what he called the lead in investing,
16 basically replacing the hedge funds and that everything
17 should be fine once he came in.
18 Q Was there something about it would mean some
19 kind of a rating for the funds or give your Ponzi scheme
20 some kind of a rating?
21 A Well, there were --
22 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
23 MR. SCHERER: What's the objection?
24 MS. TRENCH: I think that you were leading him,
25 putting words -- compound.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 391
1 MR. SCHERER: We're going to start over. Where
2 were we?
3 (The pending question was read back by the court
4 reporter.)
5 BY MR. SCHERER:
6 Q Do you recall specifically the discussion about
7 what it would mean as far as giving some validity to or
8 recognition to the Ponzi scheme if Mr. Von Allmen got
9 involved?
10 A Yes. It was several fold. But one of the main
11 things that Mr. Levin and Preve wanted to try to do was
12 take us to several credit rating agencies. I remember
13 specific conversations about Standard & Poor's to attempt
14 to get an actual rating for them on an investment
15 strategy, and having Mr. Von Allmen involved along with
16 his family members would be of significant impetus for us
17 to achieve that positive rating.
18 (Thereupon, a short break was taken.)
19 BY MR. SCHERER:
20 Q We're going to finish this on time, hopefully.
21 Let me show you an e-mail from Jack Simony to
22 Mark Nordlicht, Ari Glass, subject, hi, April 27, 2009.
23 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 57, Bates labeled
24 PLATCENT21098.
25 THE WITNESS: Okay.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 392
1 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 57 was
2 marked for identification.)
3 BY MR. SCHERER:
4 Q And the chain starts on Sunday, April 26th. And
5 do you see down at the bottom it says it's from Simony to
6 Frank Preve. Hey, Frank, sorry to bug you on Sunday.
7 Mira wants to come down to FL, paren, this evening,
8 closed paren, to work out a way forward. Are you guys
9 available tomorrow and is the timing right? Best sent
10 via Blackberry.
11 And Frank to Simony, We need to bring it to a
12 head, so I'm all for this visit.
13 Jack up at the top on the 27th, Mark, Ari, I
14 was -- it says, I was trying to set up a meeting with
15 Banyon all day. Frank's e-mail response is enclosed
16 below.
17 Does that e-mail refresh your recollection about
18 a meeting among all of these folks on the 27th and --
19 A I don't know that the meeting actually occurred
20 on the 27th, but I do know that the meeting was set up
21 and sometime around there the meeting occurred.
22 Q Let me see if I can help with that. Let me move
23 on and then I'll try to come back to that. I believe
24 there's an e-mail Mr. Nordlictht's waiting in the waiting
25 room, you've left him hanging there and he e-mails you,
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 393
1 come and get me, Scott, on the 27th. I'll find that
2 e-mail.
3 A I know that the meeting occurred right around
4 this date. I just don't remember off the top of my head
5 the exact date. I do remember the meeting occurring.
6 Q Let me show you another e-mail, April 22nd,
7 we're going back a little bit, try to keep these in
8 order. Go ahead.
9 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 58, begins FP165165/1.
10 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 58 was
11 marked for identification.)
12 BY MR. SCHERER:
13 Q Mr. Rothstein, this is an e-mail from Mr. Preve
14 to you on April 22 regarding Jack Simony. Says he's
15 presenting to three major outside investors tomorrow and
16 we're welcome to be there. There is no cash available
17 without outside help and that's why he is presenting.
18 You remember this e-mail?
19 A Yes, I do.
20 Q What can you tell us about it?
21 A I can tell you that I know that at that point in
22 time Jack was still talking to both Frank and I about
23 raising outside capital outside of the hedge funds.
24 Q Do you know who the three majors that he was
25 speaking with?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 394
1 A I do not remember.
2 Q I want to show you an e-mail chain - no, it's
3 not a chain, it's on one page, which means I can follow
4 it.
5 It's from Mr. Preve to Mr. Nordlicht on June 24,
6 '09, and then some back and forth. Go ahead.
7 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 59 ends in 599359994.
8 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 59 was
9 marked for identification.)
10 BY MR. SCHERER:
11 Q It starts out from Preve to Nordlicht on June
12 24, '09. Re: contact. And I want to - let's get it in
13 the record and I'll ask you some questions about it.
14 A Okay.
15 Q Down at the bottom it's Preve to Nordlicht
16 contact, Hi, Mark, hope you're hanging in there, I need a
17 favor. One of the big Funds paren, I will get you their
18 names, is getting ready to buy into our PPM, but they
19 want a contact at our lenders. I'm giving them your name
20 and Jack's, paren, for both Centurion and Level 3, closed
21 paren. I need you to handle this personally because it
22 is a way to make you whole in a very short period of
23 time. What number do you want me to give them?
24 Did I read that correctly?
25 A Yes, sir.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 395
1 Q All right. And what do you -- during this
2 period of time in June of '09, were you trying to make -
3 you and Mr. Preve trying to make Platinum and Centurion
4 whole in a short period of time?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And what do you think that means, make whole in
7 a short period of time?
8 A It means that we have found a way - we are
9 trying to put together a way through new investors to
10 bring in money into the Ponzi scheme to get it paid out
11 to the old investors, in this case the hedge funds.
12 Q And then the next e-mail is from Preve to
13 Mr. Nordlicht, cc this time to Jack Simony. Contact, Hi,
14 Mark, I have haven't heard you from you but I understand
15 you're traveling. In any case let reiterate that the
16 registered investment advisors, paren, Ballamor Capital,
17 closed paren, who handles on income fund -- I think
18 that's a misstatement. But on income fund. Will be
19 touching base with you in the near future. He's raising
20 funds to purchase the, quote, old, closed quote R.R.A.
21 deals which in turn will provide for the free flow of
22 funds from the R.R.A. trust accounts to the appropriate
23 collection accounts. In essence we anticipate a
24 normalization of business flows once this happens. We
25 appreciate your cooperation with this RIA. RIA being
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 396
1 Registered Investment Advisor, I think.
2 And then up at the top you have Mr. Nordlicht to
3 Mr. Preve on June 25. Thanks. Just landed. Have him
4 call Jack first in the interim and then I will be happy
5 to talk to him as well.
6 Now, at this time, do you have a recollection of
7 the efforts in June to have Platinum and Centurion give
8 positive references to Ballamor?
9 A Yes, I do. We were frantic to make sure we got
10 positive references.
11 Q And raising funds to purchase old R.R.A. deals,
12 what do you think that refers to?
13 A The old R.R.A. deals would have been to purchase
14 the money involved in the hedge funds deals.
15 Q But those deals by June were already in default;
16 weren't they?
17 A That's correct.
18 Q And a free flow of funds from R.R.A. trust
19 accounts to the appropriate collection accounts; what
20 does that mean to you?
21 A It means so that we can pay back the hedge
22 funds, Centurion, Platinum, Level 3 using new investor
23 money.
24 Q But again, the free flow of funds from your
25 trust accounts to the appropriate collection accounts, do
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 397
1 you agree that's Ponzi talk because there weren't any
2 funds to free flow from these trust accounts; correct?
3 A That's correct.
4 Q Now, do you know whether Mark Nordlicht or
5 Simony indeed had conversations with Ballamor Bekkedam or
6 any registered investment advisor from that group
7 relative to this at this time?
8 A I was told by Mr. Preve that he spoke with
9 them. I was told by Mr. Simony that both he and Mark
10 spoke to them. I did not speak to Mr. Nordlicht about
11 this particular group.
12 Q How about Barry Bekkedam, did you have any
13 conversations with him concerning his fund or his fund
14 being available to purchase old, quotes around old,
15 R.R.A. deals during this time?
16 A I don't recall talking about buying old R.R.A.
17 deals. I recall talking about buying new deals with
18 Barry. I don't recall talking to him specifically about
19 purchasing old deals. That's not to say it didn't
20 happen, I just don't have an independent recollection of
21 it.
22 Q Let me show you a June 23, '09 e-mail from Frank
23 Preve to you.
24 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 60, the Bates labeled
25 number is unreadable on this copy.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 398
1 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 60 was
2 marked for identification.)
3 BY MR. SCHERER:
4 Q It's unreadable, also. It's a Frank Preve
5 e-mail, June 23, '09 to Rothstein. Update. And it has
6 Bates stamp but our copy doesn't show it.
7 Now, you'll see I have highlighted there on the
8 middle part of the page: Also the RIA now wants to talk
9 to Platinum and Centurion about our credit rating.
10 Great. Having Jack lay the ground work. You see that?
11 What did you think -- First of all, do you recall this?
12 A Yes, I do.
13 Q And tell us what you recall and what was going
14 on with that RIA now wanting to talk to Platinum and
15 Centurion about the credit rating?
16 A It's the same thing we referenced it the other
17 e-mails talking about - it's having the people from
18 Ballamor from Bekkedam's group speak to Jack Simony
19 and/or Mark Nordlicht about the fact that we are a solid
20 investment and we pay on time.
21 Q Let me ask this, I had forgotten to ask you
22 this. Around the time back in April, at the end of April
23 and about a month before this or month and a half, when
24 you were identifying - or when Mr. Von Allmen was
25 identified to you through Barry Bekkedam; do you recall
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 399
1 ever setting up a dinner at Bova in which Mr. Von Allmen
2 had dinner with you and Ari Glass at Bova, your
3 restaurant?
4 A I really don't have a specific recollection of
5 the dinner, it's possible it happened but I don't have a
6 specific recollection of it.
7 Q Do you have a recollection of Mr. Von Allmen
8 having dinner with anybody from Platinum and Centurion at
9 all? I think it's Ari Glass, but the question is
10 anybody; maybe Jack Simony or anybody?
11 A I don't have that independent recollection,
12 Mr. Scherer.
13 Q Okay. Thank you. I should have asked you this
14 this morning when I was questioning you concerning David
15 Ring's testimony in his deposition concerning a statement
16 made to him by Jack Simony of having a bad Passover in
17 '09, which is I looked it up, I think it's April the 4
18 '09, Passover, April 4 to April 8th, I think. Do you
19 recall that question? You recall my question and your
20 responses to that question?
21 A I recall you discussing it. I don't recall you
22 asking me specific questions about the bad Passover, no.
23 Q Well, let me show you April 8, e-mail from Jack
24 Simony to you. And I'm sorry we don't have a Bates stamp
25 on it. I know it was Bates -- Let me tell everybody
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 400
1 where it came from. It came from the Trustee's
2 production of the deleted e-mails, which were recently
3 produced.
4 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 61.
5 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 61 was
6 marked for identification.)
7 MR. LICHTMAN: To be clear, the restored deleted
8 e-mails.
9 Q Restored deleted e-mails, yes. And since that's
10 my only copy, I'd ask you to read it. Tell us from you
11 to Jack kind of hard to read.
12 A Okay.
13 Q And would you read it for us? Read the date and
14 go ahead and publish that for me, please.
15 A Sure. It's from Jack Simony, Whitehaven Group
16 dot com to Scott Rothstein, Wednesday, April 8, 2009 at
17 7:27:22 p.m. Hey buddy, this won't be the first Passover
18 we Jews got through when things look bleak. We will find
19 a way through this one. I'm committed to helping any way
20 I can. Have a good chag, Jack. Sent via Blackberry
21 A.T.T.
22 Q Do you recall receiving that e-mail from Jack -
23 and now that I've put it in front of you, concerning his
24 bad Passover?
25 A Yes.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 401
1 Q Do you understand that he meant by having a bad
2 Passover that you folks were going to get through?
3 A Everything was potentially crashing. The hedge
4 funds - we cut off our dealings basically with the hedge
5 funds. We were at a standstill. They were not funding,
6 we weren't going to pay, they knew it. We were insisting
7 on certain things and they were insisting on certain
8 things. So, it looked like the entire strategy was
9 blowing up from both sides.
10 Q David Ring's memory concerning Jack's statements
11 to him is pretty consistent with that e-mail to you?
12 A It is.
13 Q And his statement about saving the funds during
14 that time is consistent with your understanding of what
15 was happening to your relationship and Banyon's
16 relationship with the hedge funds?
17 A Absolutely.
18 Q Now, yesterday you described Simony as a
19 confidant?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q Would you explain that for us, please?
22 A Based upon all of the dealings that I had
23 witnessed between Mr. Simony and Mr. Preve, and based
24 upon numerous conversations that I had with Mr. Simony
25 over the phone and face-to-face and based upon trips we
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 402
1 had taken and the like, hanging out together, I felt that
2 Mr. Simony was one of the people that I could truly trust
3 in the process to do the right thing for all parties
4 concerned, not just for his particular group. And that's
5 the way I treated him for the most part.
6 Q And if I went back to your letter to the Judge
7 about investors that knew and some investors that didn't
8 know about the Ponzi scheme, where would you place
9 Mr. Simony?
10 A Simony was conflicted. I believe that he knew
11 there was a fraud going on, but I do not necessarily know
12 whether he knew what type of fraud was going on. All of
13 the different people, Mr. Scherer, that were involved in
14 the hedge fund - at the hedge funds all had different
15 levels as far as I was concerned of knowledge, people
16 who --
17 Q Take them through the most knowledge through the
18 least knowledge. Let me do it this way.
19 A Sure.
20 Q Do you think that Mr. Nordlicht had knowledge
21 that what you were doing was an illegal Ponzi scheme?
22 A Following my April meeting at the end of April
23 with him?
24 Q Yes.
25 A I was confident that he knew that there was
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 403
1 illegal activity going on, yes.
2 Q And what do you base that on?
3 A A conversation that I had with him.
4 Q And would you tell us about that conversation?
5 A We were discussing the fact that the explosion
6 of this entire ordeal, meaning the hedge funds not
7 getting paid, us not having money, this was not good for
8 anybody, them declaring us in default and potentially
9 suing us, George potentially lighting up and suing them
10 would only serve to harm all of us.
11 I opened the meeting. I can remember vividly
12 sitting on the couch in my office, we were both sitting
13 on the same piece of couch facing each other. And I laid
14 it out for him in no uncertain terms in my colorful
15 fashion, that something has to be done, that we are not
16 going to simply sit back and have this explode in our
17 faces. If we go down -- and I said this on more than one
18 occasion. If we go down, you go down. We're in this
19 together.
20 It's sink or swim, all for one, one for all, or
21 nobody is going anywhere. He then went into this whole
22 thing and started describing to me some events that
23 involved his father Julius and how he had been through a
24 fraud thing with his father and how difficult it was and
25 that he didn't want to go through it again. And then he
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 404
1 started talking to me about this optionable litigation.
2 And I got out of it from the conversation, clearly, that
3 he was trying to explain to me without using the words
4 that he was a player, that he got it. That this is not
5 his first time at the dance. And he used words pretty
6 close at that. I don't know if he said first time at the
7 dance. I know it wasn't the first time at a rodeo, he is
8 not a rodeo guy.
9 He said first time at the dance, not my first
10 trip down this lane. He kept saying whatever the issues
11 are, we'll get through it together. We need to stick
12 together. He said these things only blow up when the
13 parties start fighting. We can't let that happen. I'm
14 here to support you, you have to support me.
15 And we decided at that moment that we would. I
16 told him that the most important thing that he could do
17 was make sure that any future investors that contacted
18 him were told we were a good investment strategy and that
19 they had only positive experience with us with regard to
20 payment and all the other details of the strategy, and he
21 assured me that they would do that.
22 Q You believe he did do that?
23 A I know that he did at least with Von Allmen and
24 Bekkedam, sure.
25 Q And so essentially, what you asked him to do was
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 405
1 lie about the your performance with his funds?
2 A Not essentially, I did ask him to lie.
3 Q And he agreed to lie?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q I think we're done, but let us have five minutes
6 to look and see if I have left anything on the table
7 here.
8 (Thereupon, a short break was taken.)
9 BY MR. SCHERER:
10 Q Mr. Rothstein, did you or Mr. Preve ever discuss
11 paying Jack Simony for all of the positive efforts that
12 he had made to help to house your Ponzi scheme to the new
13 investors?
14 (An objection to form was made.)
15 Q What was the objection about that?
16 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Ponzi scheme.
17 MR. SCHERER: I'll call it whatever you would
18 like me to call.
19 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Investment strategy.
20 Q Did you ever discuss paying Mr. Simony for
21 assisting you and Mr. Preve in your investment
22 strategies? That's Ponzi speak for Ponzi.
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay.
25 A With that understanding, yes.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 406
1 Q He objected to that. Let me ask the question
2 without -- Did you ever discuss with Mr. Preve
3 compensating Mr. Simony for giving positive references to
4 your investment program?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Would you tell us about that, please?
7 A Yes. Mr. Preve spoke to me over the phone and
8 by e-mail; it was the e-mail first, then we had a
9 telephone conversation, telling me that if we expected
10 Jack to risk his credibility, which was later described
11 to me when we talked about it, which was giving us the
12 positive credit reference; if we expected him to risk his
13 credibility he had to be paid.
14 Q We're looking for that e-mail and we'll find it
15 probably next week. I'll show you - and then we'll end
16 it today, an e-mail from you to -- We found it.
17 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 62 begins FP ends
18 192479/1.
19 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 62 was
20 marked for identification.)
21 BY MR. SCHERER:
22 Q Go ahead I don't have a copy of it. I would
23 like you to take a look at this e-mail. I don't have a
24 copy of it, but I would like you to publish it for us.
25 A It's an e-mail from Mr. Frank Preve to me dated
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 407
1 Thursday, October 15, 2009, 3:06 p.m. Subject: help. I
2 can't solve problems because lack of cash is tying my
3 hands. Need the following: One, Banyon 1030 need to pay
4 Bob Mazzseo so he will get back on the bandwagon with
5 A.J. plus regular bills.
6 Two, S.F.S. Need to send something so I can send
7 something to Jack. He's a key figure now and acting as a
8 go-between for the new hedge fund investors and
9 Centurion Platinum. They are deeply suspicious that no
10 one from Plat is calling them back. If Jack is going to
11 risk his credibility he needs to be compensated.
12 Three, LMB, please pay this today. I'm trying
13 to get him to step up for 15 million here shortly, but
14 these late payments send the wrong message. Call me when
15 you get a chance. Frank Preve.
16 Q What was the date of that e-mail?
17 A Thursday, October 15, 2009 at 3:06 p.m.
18 Q Do you know whether Mr. Simony got paid for
19 risking his credibility?
20 A My understanding is that he did, yes.
21 Q Tell me what you know about that.
22 A There were payments made on the S.F.S. deal,
23 which was a side deal between Frank and Jack that Jack
24 Simony was involved in, that we made payments on and
25 those payments were forwarded to Jack.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 408
1 Q Now, I will show you the -- Thank you. That's
2 the e-mail you were making reference to in your testimony
3 just before; correct?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Let me show you another e-mail from you -
6 actually it starts out from George Levin to you -- Well,
7 it does start out from George Levin to you, but I don't
8 know what's in the George Levin one. I'm only interested
9 in the, to you part, so from you to George Levin: Still
10 not heard from Frank.
11 MS. TRENCH: What was the date?
12 MR. SCHERER: April 19, '09
13 MR. KOPAS: Plaintiff's 63, starts FP ends
14 163968/1.
15 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 63 was
16 marked for identification.)
17 BY MR. SCHERER:
18 Q I think this is that Sunday they hadn't heard
19 from Frank because he was in church, according to
20 George. I think that's the same e-mail we talked about.
21 A Okay, let me take a look.
22 Q But I mean, that was the chain, but it led up to
23 this response from you on that Sunday, April 19, where it
24 says Ari is a raving sociopath.
25 A Psychopath.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 409
1 Q I can't even read that, yes. And he's driving
2 his own attorney crazy. That's the one; right?
3 A Okay. You want me to read the whole e-mail?
4 Q No, no. Read it to yourself and then I'm going
5 to talk to you about the part I highlighted.
6 A Give me half a minute. Okay.
7 Q I'm going to talk to you about the two
8 highlighted portions that I have there.
9 A Okay.
10 Q You state that in that middle part of that
11 sentence, if there's any type of problem for me at all we
12 will work around it. He also understands that the
13 re-investment of what we pay each week is a part of the
14 deal and that absent that we have no deal, and you are
15 referring to Mira on that?
16 A Yeah.
17 Q Okay.
18 A Mr. Nordlicht.
19 Q That's Nordlicht; right?
20 A Yes.
21 Q We've been referring to as Mark Nordlicht?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And then down below you say, I discussed with
24 Jack and Mira the fact that anyone going ballistic would
25 serve no one well and I was quite specific as to Murray's
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 410
1 weakness and to Mira's weakness as it relates to an
2 explosion. Would you tell us what you meant?
3 A Yes, I explained to Jack Simony and
4 Mr. Nordlicht the doctrine of dough mad, the doctrine of
5 mutually assured destruction.
6 Q Was that Ponzi speak for --
7 A That was my way. I explained to them that this
8 all fell under now, what I referred to in e-mails and the
9 like, as dough mad, the doctrine of mutually assured
10 destruction, you fire, we fire, everybody goes down in a
11 fiery ball of flames.
12 I explained to them that we knew about Murray's
13 cross involvement in all this stuff and other shinanigans
14 that he was pulling, according to Mr. Preve. And that if
15 they put us in a position where we were going to explode
16 that we would make sure they went down with us and it
17 would serve nobody's purpose.
18 Q Isn't that like telling him you're involved in
19 illegal activity and that you'll bring them down if they
20 bring you down?
21 MS. TRENCH: Object to form.
22 A That is what I was telling them.
23 Q You weren't talking about just losing your
24 credit rating?
25 A There is no way anyone speaking to me at this
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 411
1 point in time misinterpreted what I was saying and the
2 way I was saying it as some general polite business
3 discussion about having a bad business day.
4 MR. SCHERER: Okay. Thanks. I have no further
5 questions.
6 MR. LICHTMAN: I would like to start. I'll do
7 this about 20 minutes to get out because I'm
8 concerned about timing making sure everybody gets
9 their time.
10 DIRECT EXAMINATION
11 BY MR. MR. LICHTMAN:
12 Q Mr. Rothstein, as you know, I'm Counsel to Mr.
13 Stettin, the Trustee of R.R.A.
14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q I'm going to be asking you some questions about
16 T.D. Bank and I'll follow-up on some things that prior
17 Counsel has gotten into.
18 A Okay.
19 Q One thing I want to start off with was a line of
20 inquiry I asked you about yesterday in the 2004 Exam
21 where I spoke to you at the beginning of that examination
22 about your truthfulness. Do you remember that?
23 A Okay.
24 Q I think we obtained a stipulation that the
25 comments you made in the 2004 would carry over and extend
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 412
1 to this transcript?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q And I listened to what you had to say and
4 something dawned on me. You said that you went to
5 Morocco and one of the reasons you went there was because
6 there was no extradition treaty with the United States;
7 correct?
8 A That's correct.
9 Q And you weren't extradited when you came back to
10 the United States; correct?
11 A No, I returned voluntarily, sir.
12 Q When you say that you came home voluntarily,
13 what do you mean by that?
14 A While I was in Morroco, I contacted Mr. Nurik
15 and I told him that I was in very big trouble. I did not
16 get into specifics. I told him I was in very big
17 trouble. I discussed issues of representation, which I'm
18 not going to be specific about. But I did tell him, once
19 he told me that he would represent me, I asked him to
20 please contact the U.S. Attorney's Office, tell them that
21 I want to come in, that I'm going to completely de-brief
22 as to everything I know both about my crimes and the
23 crimes of many others and that I'm going to voluntarily
24 return to the United States. And I gave them the date of
25 the return.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 413
1 Q Is it a fair statement that you turned yourself
2 in?
3 A That is what happened, I did turn myself in.
4 Q You did that in conjunction with what you said
5 yesterday because you wanted to be truthful and basically
6 tell your story now?
7 A I turned myself in --
8 Q Did you do that because you wanted to be
9 truthful, as you mentioned yesterday and tell your story?
10 A That was certainly one of the reasons. I did
11 not want my family to have to have this raining down upon
12 them without me here. I created the mess, it should rain
13 down on me, not on them. They didn't do anything wrong.
14 I was concerned about my children, not about
15 their safety but about their mental well-being and it was
16 time for me to be a man and step up and actually do the
17 right thing, probably for the first time in my life.
18 Q I noticed that you've been talking about
19 potentially illegal conduct of many people that you were
20 very close to or at least if they had knowledge of some
21 of your activities, you mentioned as an example Ron
22 Picou, who you said was in your very narrow circle of
23 friends; Stu who has been your partner for years; Ted
24 Morse who was like your brother; Uncle Bill, as an
25 example?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 414
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q I note that you seem very open about talking
3 about these items. Is there anything in your state of
4 mind as to, seems almost like this is freeing you up as
5 you go through this process?
6 A In a lot of ways it's a combination. It's
7 extremely difficult because there's a lot of people I'm
8 talking about that I care about tremendously and still
9 care about.
10 But at the same time when you have been living
11 the type of lie that I lived for that many years and when
12 you have hurt that many people you get to the point where
13 something has to give, you're either going to remain on
14 the run for your entire life or you're going to kill
15 yourself; or you're going to do what I did and that is
16 come back and -- I made my bed, I'm going to sleep in it,
17 Chuck, that's what I decided to do.
18 Q When I came back from lunch today one of my
19 colleagues that's in the room asked me how much time
20 either I or the Trustee had promised you in connection
21 with any testimony. And I think that it pertained to the
22 fact it's common knowledge and been talked about at
23 length that the Trustee, including myself and my
24 co-counsel, interviewed you for three days?
25 A That's correct.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 415
1 Q Did the Trustee offer you anything or make any
2 promise to you whatsoever about your testimony?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q Have I?
5 A No, sir.
6 Q Or Mr. Genovese?
7 A No, sir.
8 Q By chance, has Mr. Scherer made any such
9 promises to you?
10 A No, sir.
11 Q Okay.
12 A This is the first time, by the way, I'm speaking
13 to Mr. Scherer since I left the country. I haven't
14 spoken to him the entire time.
15 Q Let me then start just for a few minutes so we
16 can be efficient with time and talk about how the
17 relationship with T.D. Bank began. Do you recall how it
18 was that you actually got to T.D. Bank?
19 A We got to T.D. Bank through my partner Steve
20 Lippman and a relationship he had with a gentleman who
21 was heading up either Florida or this whole part of the
22 country, a guy named John Tolimar (phonetic). Steve and
23 I were discussing the fact that we needed a new banking
24 relationship for a number of reasons and he called Mr.
25 Tolimar and we actually set up a meeting and I remember
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 416
1 going to dinner with Mr. Tolimar and Mr. Rosenfeldt came
2 with us. Myself, Mr. Lippman, Mr. Tolimar and Mr.
3 Rosenfeldt had dinner up in Boca Raton some place and
4 discussed a banking relationship.
5 Q At that point in time the bank was known as
6 Commerce Bank; right?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q You said there were reasons you were going
9 there. Yesterday you mentioned some reasons as it
10 pertained, for instance, to matters related to Ponzi
11 scheme. Were there other reasons as well?
12 A No, the main instigating reason was the fact
13 that one of our investors or a group of our investors
14 were telling us that we needed to be with a bigger bank.
15 I suspect that as I'm sitting here thinking
16 about it, the sub reason of course is I'm getting a real
17 headache from Gibraltar and even though Mr. Harris and
18 Mr. Hayworth are doing a good job protecting me, it's
19 still a headache and it's taking up a lot of time, both
20 mentally and actually physically. So as long as we could
21 have a good relationship it was a welcome change for us.
22 Q Is it a fair statement that the partners at
23 R.R.A. that you mentioned that went to the dinner with
24 Mr. Tolimar up in Boca knew the reason for you wanting to
25 move to a bigger and different bank?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 417
1 A They knew that we needed to go to a bigger bank,
2 I don't believe that Mr. Lippman - that it was discussed
3 with Lippman, specifically about needing to go because of
4 the hedge funds. It was discussed with Mr. Rosenfeldt
5 briefly.
6 MR. LICHTMAN: Let me ask the Court Reporter
7 what your next exhibit number is.
8 (Whereupon, Trustee's Exhibit No. 64 was marked
9 for identification.)
10 BY MR. LICHTMAN:
11 Q For the record, Exhibit 64 is the Adversary
12 Complaint that the trustee, Mr. Stettin filed in this
13 action.
14 A Okay.
15 Q And I want to start with the issue of accounts.
16 We began --
17 A Did you say counts or accounts?
18 Q Bank accounts.
19 A Thank you.
20 Q If you would take a look at Paragraph 14.
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q One of the allegations that we make is that
23 numerous accounts were opened in R.R.A.'s name. Do you
24 know ultimately how many accounts were opened at the
25 bank?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 418
1 A Well, over a dozen. I don't remember how many
2 we ultimately had. There was a lot of accounts. Every
3 time a new investor wanted to come in we opened up a
4 separate account for them.
5 Q Paragraph 26 of the Adversary Complaint we
6 alleged that there were 26 accounts, 22 of which were
7 titled as trust accounts. Does that refresh your
8 recollection?
9 A That sounds approximately correct, yes, sir.
10 Q Okay. At the time that you opened up these 22
11 trust accounts, did the bank ever ask you why you would
12 open 22 separate trust accounts?
13 A No, sir.
14 Q To the best of your recollection, was the
15 paperwork filled out appropriately so each of those 22
16 accounts could qualify as Florida Bar iolta accounts?
17 A I didn't handle that paperwork. It would have
18 been handled by Irene Stay, possibly Bill Brock and Debra
19 Villegas assisting. But I assume it was because they
20 were all opened up as authorized trust accounts.
21 Q You know that from your personal knowledge
22 because you saw the accounts and you worked with --
23 A I know it actually because I had conversations
24 with Tracy Weintraub about the accounts and the fact that
25 they were unlimited accounts.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 419
1 Q Was there ever a point in time that Mr. Spinosa
2 asked you why you had 22 trust accounts?
3 A No.
4 Q Did Ms. Kerstetter ever ask you that?
5 A No, sir.
6 Q Ms. Caretsky?
7 A No, sir.
8 Q In any of the prior firms that you were
9 affiliated with, did you ever have 22 trust accounts?
10 A No, sir.
11 Q Did you have more than one?
12 A We may have had more than one. We sometimes
13 broke it down into -- I remember at Phillip, Eisinger we
14 had a trust account for certain condo work that
15 Mr. Eisinger was doing and possibly one for other types
16 of business, but never more than a small handful.
17 Q Paragraph 14 of the Complaint our second
18 sentence says: One of his co-conspirators - and his
19 refers to you - was T.D. Bank, which acting through its
20 authorized agents enabled and allowed Rothstein to use
21 its name, facilities, and accounts to deceive investors
22 and lenders. I want to break that down for you.
23 With respect to the authorized agents, you've
24 mentioned three names so far, that would be Mr. Spinosa,
25 Ms. Caretsky and Ms. Kerstetter.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 420
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Would it be a fair statement that those three
3 people assisted you directly or indirectly in the course
4 of your banking relationship at T.D.?
5 MS. ROTHCHILD: Objection to form
6 A Those three people assisted me directly.
7 Q Was there anybody else that assisted you?
8 A That I knew that knew we were committing some
9 type of fraud? No. Those were the three people that
10 were in the know that we were doing something illegal.
11 MR. CRAIG: Move to strike, non responsive.
12 Let me put my objection on the record.
13 MR. LICHTMAN: I'm sorry.
14 MR. CRAIG: I move to strike, it's non
15 responsive.
16 BY MR. LICHTMAN:
17 Q That's actually not what I was asking you.
18 A Okay.
19 Q I want to first focus on is who assisted you at
20 the bank?
21 A Generally assisted with day-to-day business?
22 Q Yes, if you needed something done, whether it
23 was a wire transfer or lock letter or whatever it was?
24 A If it was me specifically requesting, I always
25 went directly to Frank Spinosa. If I couldn't reach
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 421
1 Mr. Spinosa I went to Ms. Caretsky. I suspect - I don't
2 know that this ever occurred - but if I couldn't reach
3 Ms. Caretsky I have would have gone to Ms. Kerstetter.
4 The general rule however was, unless I was doing
5 something pertaining to business that I specifically was
6 doing, that Irene Stay or Bill Brock would have contacted
7 whoever it is that they deemed necessary to contact and
8 I'm certain that their main contacts were not Frank
9 Spinosa, were Ms. Caretsky and Ms. Kerstetter and
10 probably a whole host of other individuals for our
11 general banking business depending upon what they were
12 doing.
13 Q Within R.R.A. what was the difference in
14 responsibility between what Mr. Brock had to do and what
15 Ms. Stay to had to do as it pertained to T.D. Bank?
16 A Ms. Stay's primary responsible was one
17 overseeing all the financial work that was going on with
18 T.D. but, let's call it sub-primarily she was trust
19 accounting. Bill Brock was more towards the operating
20 side, though when Irene was unavailable he would fill in
21 and handle trust items, especially if she was on vacation
22 or out of the office.
23 Q Forgive me, but if you would explain the
24 difference between when you say Ms. Stay was doing trust
25 accounting and Uncle Bill was doing operating, I don't
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 422
1 understand from a functional standpoint what the
2 difference is. If you could clarify that.
3 A Okay. Operating account, though it was used to
4 launder money through, once it came out of other accounts
5 sometimes we put it in there to move it. Although that
6 occurred more at Gibraltar than T.D.
7 Q Was that the 0923 account?
8 A No, 0923 was the main trust account.
9 The operating account at T.D. Bank, to the best
10 of my memory, was basically a legitimate account.
11 Meaning that legitimate bills and the like were paid
12 through it. I'm sure some illegitimate things were paid
13 through it also, but the bulk of it was costs and that
14 kind of stuff. And Bill's responsibility was cut all the
15 cost checks, make sure the process servers are paid, make
16 sure court filing fees are paid, that type of stuff.
17 You'll see the series of checks in that regard.
18 On the other side, you have trust accounting.
19 In a firm that's running a massive Ponzi scheme where you
20 have 22 trust accounts, there's a significant amount of
21 movement in and out of those accounts at extremely high
22 velocity. Irene was my right-hand confidant on the
23 financial side of the Ponzi scheme. And her job was,
24 when I say trust accounting, her main focus was the
25 illegal trust accounting, moving money around in all the
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 423
1 accounts, making sure investors got paid on time, making
2 sure I knew how much money we would need on a daily,
3 weekly, monthly basis to pay the Ponzi investors and the
4 like.
5 Q Can you tell me what the difference was between
6 the operating account that you had at Gibraltar Bank and
7 the operating account at T.D. Bank?
8 A There's actually a drastic difference. My best
9 recollection is that the operating account at T.D. Bank
10 as I just expressed was used more for just general
11 business. We were paying a lot of our legitimate bills
12 through that account, but of course using Ponzi money. I
13 mean Ponzi money was going in there to pay most of the
14 bills from the law firm.
15 In Gibraltar it was completely different because
16 what we were doing, if you look at all the e-mails, and
17 this is probably 99 percent true with almost out
18 exception, if you look at all the e-mails between Ms.
19 Ellis, Mr. Harris, me, Irene, Bill, regarding the
20 movement of money, when it came, when it's Ponzi funds
21 and it's coming from George Levin's, Banyon 1030-32
22 account into our Banyon, the R.R.A. Banyon account, it
23 always went as a matter of course into that account, out
24 of that account; before it went anywhere else we always
25 put it in operating for the purposes that we saw as
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 424
1 washing the money, in other words --
2 Q The Gibraltar operating account?
3 A Yes, for the purpose of having it look like it
4 was legitimate income to the law firm. At that point we
5 could do with it as we wish and we would instruct the
6 people at Gibraltar through me, through Bill, through
7 Irene, to move the money at that point in time through
8 various accounts, whether it would be to my personal
9 account. You saw e-mails yesterday with the real estate
10 trust account, all types of various accounts.
11 And then ultimately when we had our accounts at
12 Commerce T.D. we would move the money from on occasion
13 from our Gibraltar operating account over to T.D. and
14 then use the money there, and likewise back the other
15 way.
16 Q So, if I understood your testimony a few minutes
17 ago, you said that you principally work directly with
18 Mr. Spinosa when it came to T.D. Bank issues; correct?
19 A That's correct.
20 Q As to Ms. Stay when she was dealing with trust
21 account issues and the activity that you described she
22 was engaged in, who did she work with at T.D. Bank?
23 A Her main contact was Ms. Caretsky.
24 Q And do you know what type of things she did with
25 Ms. Caretsky under your direction?
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 425
1 A You know, I don't recall off the top of my
2 head. If you have e-mails it will help refresh my
3 recollection. But you also have to remember, Mr.
4 Lichtman, fortunately for us in the scheme of a Ponzi
5 scheme it was much more limited, the need for contact,
6 because we had Treasury Direct in our office, which
7 allowed us to send out our own wires. So, we really only
8 needed contact them when we were doing what everyone has
9 now come to call the show, and we made contact with them
10 when we needed wires processed quicker, if things were
11 getting hung up, overdrafts covered, that type of stuff.
12 I believe that you'd find, in looking at the
13 e-mails, that the contact was significantly less than we
14 had to have with Gibraltar Bank.
15 Q If there were wires that you needed to have
16 expedited that would be the type of thing Ms. Stay would
17 have handled with Ms. Caretsky?
18 A Yes, Ms. Stay or Mr. Brock with Ms. Caretsky or
19 perhaps even going directly to the wire department.
20 Q If you were transferring money from one of the
21 accounts to another account, did you do that through
22 Treasury Direct or would you have done that through
23 conversation, meaning you at R.R.A. with someone at
24 T.D.?
25 A I don't recall off the top of my head, but I
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 426
1 know we didn't do it through Treasury Direct because that
2 was wires. I seem to have some recollection that we had
3 the ability to transfer money internally also, but I may
4 be mistaken. The e-mails should show that if you have
5 e-mails from Irene or Bill to somebody else telling them
6 to move money internally.
7 Q Do you recall what Mr. Spinosa's title was at
8 the bank?
9 A He was the regional vice-president.
10 Q Did he describe for you what his duties were?
11 A He told me that he had control over the
12 southeast region of T.D. Bank.
13 Q Did you believe that there was anyone more
14 senior in the southeast region of T.D. Bank than
15 Mr. Spinosa?
16 A In that region, no. Only Mr. Tolimar who was
17 his direct report while he was at the bank.
18 Q Mr. Tolimar knew who you were because he passed
19 you off to Mr. Spinosa; right?
20 A Yes. Mr. Tolimar and I actually became
21 friendly, yes.
22 Q Was Mr. Tolimar at the bank throughout the
23 course of, we'll say October 2009, to the best of your
24 knowledge?
25 A No. My understanding is he got a better
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 427
1 opportunity with another banking establishment and left.
2 Q Do you know who Mr. Spinosa's senior officer
3 was over him, if any?
4 A After Mr. Tolimar left?
5 Q Yes.
6 A It was my understanding that he reported to
7 someone up in the main office at Cherry Hill, New
8 Jersey. That once Mr. Tolimar left they actually didn't
9 replace Mr. Tolimar with regard to him. The way
10 Mr. Spinosa explained it to me is that once Mr. Tolimar
11 left he was give a lot more power and a lot more
12 authority.
13 Q So he moved up?
14 A Yes.
15 Q As to Ms. Caretsky, did she report to
16 Mr. Spinosa; do you know?
17 A I don't know for certain. It always appeared
18 that she did because I saw e-mails back and forth, but I
19 can't be certain.
20 Q Do you know what her title was?
21 A I don't remember whether she was the branch
22 manager, I don't recall off the top of my head.
23 Q How about Ms. Kerstetter?
24 A She eventually became one of the managers at the
25 17th Street branch. I think she was Ms. Caretsky's
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 428
1 assistant, if I'm not mistaken at the Weston branch.
2 Q At Weston?
3 A At Weston. She was originally - ms. Kerstetter
4 was originally at Weston and moved to 17th Street.
5 Q Now, the second sentence in Paragraph 14 of our
6 complaint, it says one of his co-conspirators from T.D.
7 Bank, which acting through its authorized agents, enabled
8 and allowed Rothstein to use its name, facilities,
9 accounts to deceive investors and lenders. Do you see
10 that?
11 A Yes.
12 Q From a factual standpoint do you believe that
13 statement to be true?
14 A It is true.
15 Q What facts do you know of that would support the
16 contention that I raised - and we're going to break this
17 down, that T.D. Bank allowed you to use its name to
18 deceive investors and lenders?
19 A One of the great things from a Ponzi perspective
20 about moving our accounts to T.D. Bank and then finding
21 an ally and co-conspirator in Mr. Spinosa was the fact
22 that T.D. Bank was one of the largest and recognized as
23 one of the largest, most powerful banks in the country
24 and continued to grow at an extremely rapid pace.
25 The fact that we were able to put their name all
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 429
1 over everything we were doing when we were selling the
2 investments lend a tremendous credibility. I no longer
3 had to answer any questions such as I've never heard of
4 Gibraltar Bank. There were people from outside the region
5 that really weren't familiar with Gibraltar Private.
6 Q Did Mr. Spinosa know you were doing this?
7 A He helped me do that, sure.
8 Q Give me examples how he helped you do it.
9 A Of the best example is when I had Barry Damson
10 and Kathleen White in his office up on Cypress Creek over
11 and over again, when Mr. Spinosa was selling he would say
12 you don't need to worry, we're as big as they get.
13 There's a lot of money behind this, there's a lot of
14 power, and there's very little we can't do to help our
15 customers. If your money is safe, it's safe anywhere.
16 You know, it's touting the power of being an extremely
17 large bank.
18 Q How about issuing lock letters that came on T.D.
19 letterhead, would you view that as being consistent with
20 that statement?
21 (Objection was made to form.)
22 Q Would you view the issuance of the lock letters
23 to be consistent with T.D. Bank lending its name to what
24 you were doing?
25 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to form.
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 430
1 A That's one of the main things they did for us.
2 It turned out that those lock letters were instrumental
3 to us continuing our business because we had investors
4 that would not have invested with us but for our ability
5 to pseudo faith, clock the accounts.
6 Q The second component of the sentence in the
7 complaint discusses facilities. Would it be a fair
8 statement that the use of the T.D. Bank office was for
9 your show, would qualify in your mind as the use of the
10 facilities?
11 MS. ROTHCHILD: Object to the form.
12 A Sure. I mean, it clearly gave the investors the
13 impression that we were extremely tightly tied to the
14 bank and a powerful client. We would walk in and we were
15 able to use their facilities. I had very close
16 relationships with the people in there, as you can see
17 from the one picture that makes it look like I was
18 dancing with Ms. Kerstetter in the middle of the bank
19 floor.
20 So, yes, the use of their facility certainly
21 helped and our ability to come and go as we pleased help
22 as well.
23 Q The last item would have been accounts, that's
24 self explanatory.
25 MR. LICHTMAN: What I would like to do, it's 10
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 431
1 to 5, if we stop right now that would give people
2 enough time to possibly beat rush hour by a couple
3 minutes.
4 MR. NURIK: Before we go I want to put on the
5 record, I've explained this to certain of the Counsel
6 that tomorrow morning I have another thing that I
7 have to attend to in Broward County. But my client,
8 Mr. Rothstein, has agreed to proceed in my absence
9 and continue answering the questions of Mr.
10 Lichtman. I will probably be here around 11:00 or
11 so.
12 MR. LICHTMAN: So, it's on the record,
13 Mr. Rothstein, would you acknowledge that?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, that's accurate.
15 MR. LICHTMAN: Okay.
16 (The proceedings were adjourned at 4:55 p.m.)
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
756652a1-e898-4679-b5c9-c7c6c9c502ca
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 432
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA )
5 COUNTY OF BROWARD )
6
7
8 I, TERRI L. WRIGHT, Notary Public in and for the
9 State of Florida at Large, certify that I was authorized
10 to and did stenographically reported the foregoing
11 proceedings and that the transcript is a true and
12 complete record of my stenographic notes.
13
14 Dated this 13TH day of DECEMBER, 2011.
15
16
17
18 ______________________________________ Terri L. Wright
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 433
Aab 301:2abandon 348:4ability 372:7 426:3
430:4,21able 324:13,14
349:10,18 362:25372:18 428:25430:15
absence 431:8absent 409:14absolutely 303:5
389:23 401:17accelerate 323:5accept 348:15acceptance 379:3accepted 316:15account 291:21
292:7 306:12352:14,15 353:24354:14 355:13373:5,8,11 374:18375:18,25 377:4,5381:10 418:4419:14 422:3,7,8422:9,10 423:6,7423:9,12,22,22,23423:24 424:2,9,10424:13,21 425:21
accounting 331:7421:19,25 422:18422:24,25
accounts 293:25352:6 353:5,10,12373:15 375:2376:16,17 395:22395:23 396:19,19396:25,25 397:2417:15,17,18,23417:24 418:2,6,7418:11,12,16,16418:20,22,24,25419:2,9,21 422:4422:20,21 423:1424:8,10,11425:21 428:9,20430:5,23
accurate 355:3370:20 431:14
accurately 292:3354:17
accused 328:17achieve 391:17achieved 300:11achieving 357:16acknowledge
431:13acquire 308:9acted 320:1acting 407:7
419:19 428:7action 307:2
320:25 335:2345:22 417:13
active 287:11activities 299:20
413:21activity 299:14
301:13 403:1410:19 424:21
acts 302:24actual 291:5
350:11 391:14adam 283:5adams 282:12add 311:7 353:3,22addition 304:15
359:9 375:18additional 312:23
327:2 330:2380:19 381:8388:12
address 308:4374:21
addressed 374:20adjourned 431:16adjust 355:13adversary 417:11
418:5adverse 308:24advised 293:17
312:25 348:20,23349:17
advising 320:10
advisor 396:1397:6
advisors 395:16advocate 329:15
339:22affect 327:13affectionate 323:22affiliated 419:9afraid 348:17
382:15afternoon 281:11
287:3,4 355:18agencies 324:20
391:12agents 419:20,23
428:7ago 376:7 424:17agree 322:10 343:6
377:9 380:10,24381:4,8 386:10397:1
agreed 328:18329:21 347:7357:22 378:11380:19 405:3431:8
agreement 327:17371:7 383:4
agreements 300:25ahead 289:7 292:1
360:3 366:18370:1 381:22393:8 394:6400:14 406:22
aj 364:14 365:13akerman 283:18al 281:4,7 282:7,12
282:12,17,22,24alex 284:16,17alive 362:22allegations 417:22alleged 418:6allmans 389:17
390:12allmen 288:1,1,4,7
331:25 333:4334:21 359:3
363:24 364:1365:14 372:14382:24 383:6,7385:4,8 387:13,14388:2 390:3,7,10390:14 391:8,15398:24 399:1,7404:23
allowed 372:16419:20 425:7428:8,17
ally 428:21alternative 320:1altogether 331:8,19amount 313:7
315:20 329:10339:10,12,15343:23 347:8,19352:14 354:17422:20
amounts 351:25352:12 353:8,11353:14 354:8376:3
amy 282:12analyze 289:15,19answer 293:25
315:10 321:22323:14 328:8,23339:7 356:7 370:1370:4 429:3
answered 292:21294:1
answering 292:2431:9
anticipate 395:23anybody 290:22
332:15,16 355:6360:12 372:18374:16,16 376:22379:25 399:8,10399:10 403:8420:7
anymore 291:17343:9 369:3
apartment 308:2,6apocalyptic 335:16
apparently 291:15appear 298:16
352:7appearances 283:1appeared 427:17appearing 283:8,11
283:13,16,18,21283:24 284:2,5,7284:10,12,15,17284:20,22,24285:1,3,4,7,9,11
appears 375:17appease 322:16apply 302:25
362:18appreciate 395:25appreciation
314:16appropriate 375:23
395:22 396:19,25appropriately
294:2 418:15approve 309:17
311:23approved 311:5,15approving 312:2approximately
333:17 347:4418:9
april 330:17,19331:8,11,14,15,18331:20 333:7,11333:16 334:3,16335:24,24 336:23337:13 339:5341:2,3,17 345:7348:7,23 349:2358:5,23 366:8,22371:6 377:14378:5 379:9 380:2380:11,25 381:9381:20,20 382:4385:13,22 386:23388:24 389:19,20391:22 392:4393:6,14 398:22398:22 399:17,18
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 434
399:18,23 400:16402:22,22 408:12408:23
area 325:6ari 304:13 310:19
345:18,22,23346:6,14 363:11365:3,7 372:21377:13,22 382:5382:10,13,17383:17,24,25384:2,7,9,14,22385:1,7,16 391:22392:13 399:2,9408:24
arose 313:15arrange 310:22arrived 310:24aside 366:5asked 293:21,22
294:10,11,16,22295:4,13,14 298:7310:19 316:17365:19 399:13404:25 411:20412:19 414:19419:2
asking 293:19298:10 316:19336:18 342:21345:17 346:15,17399:22 411:15420:17
asks 316:20assembled 390:13asset 301:2assistance 300:13
342:1assistant 428:1assisted 299:9
420:3,6,7,19,21assisting 324:25
405:21 418:19associated 333:3associates 285:5assume 306:1
333:25 334:6,7
336:2,3,8,18340:3,12,17342:11,21 345:17373:13 418:19
assumes 309:3assuming 358:14assumption 290:4assured 404:21
410:5,9attached 339:14attempt 323:5
391:13attempted 292:7attempting 291:21
313:8 344:23,25attempts 339:23attend 431:7attention 297:25
337:17 377:20387:5
attorney 409:2attorneys 412:20attributable 313:6
349:19auctions 287:11audit 371:22auditors 318:14,17authority 427:12authorized 418:20
419:20,23 428:7432:9
automotive 325:10325:15
autonation 325:11available 326:6
382:16 392:9393:16 397:14
avenue 281:24avoid 368:7aware 303:25
327:12,24 328:3,8328:16 330:13349:3,5,21,22371:10,16,22374:2 384:25
B
b 283:20back 300:24 303:7
309:8 311:4312:15,25 314:1,3314:9 316:14,21316:25 317:5,20321:17,19 322:11328:20 335:17338:14,25 340:6340:10 341:14,16342:6 345:14346:22,24 348:22350:15 352:3354:23 355:7,21357:25 358:12,15361:3 366:18367:11 372:6,12374:17 377:2,3,3377:7,25 380:24382:5,6,20 384:8386:10 389:8391:3 392:23393:7 394:6396:21 398:22402:6 403:16407:4,10 412:9414:16,18 424:14427:18
background308:13
bad 351:16 399:16399:22 400:24401:1 411:3
bahamas 310:7,15310:25 311:18
balamore 332:17333:2 359:12,18370:18
balance 349:25353:25 354:25355:10 373:14,14375:4,25 376:6,10
balances 291:4,22292:7 350:9 352:6353:6 354:5,24375:18 376:13,19376:20
ball 410:11ballamor 387:7
395:16 396:8397:5 398:18
ballistic 409:24bandwagon 407:4bank 282:15,20
283:24 284:2291:21 294:9,17295:10,11 296:9296:13,18 297:3,5297:14 315:4348:10 354:12374:3 411:16415:17,18,19416:5,6,14,25417:1,18,25418:11 419:19420:20 421:15422:9 423:6,7,9424:18,22 425:14426:8,12,14,17,22428:7,17,20,22429:4,17,23 430:8430:14,18
banker 294:16295:8,12,15,23299:5
banking 415:23416:4 420:4421:11 427:1
banks 428:23banyon 300:10
301:11,12 306:14308:10 327:18329:21,21 330:14330:25 332:2,3,24334:15 335:23337:15 338:6,16351:21 359:1,5,11359:17 371:11381:11,11 383:16383:20 385:5386:18 388:19,22388:23 392:15407:3 423:21,22423:22
banyons 401:15bar 418:16barometer 315:13barry 297:25 298:8
298:20 382:23,25387:6,12,23397:12,18 398:25429:9
barrys 382:25383:6 387:20
bart 285:4barzee 284:1base 395:19 403:2based 288:10
293:20 300:1301:2 317:11,20332:19,22 333:14334:7 357:16360:16 362:5372:7 401:22,23401:25
bases 382:21basically 322:16,23
324:25 334:19344:14 347:11354:7,22 370:16385:1,2 390:16401:4 413:5422:10
basics 300:7basis 289:15
315:24 347:12351:20 423:3
bates 325:21336:24 358:6366:19 372:22375:8 381:23386:25 391:23397:24 398:6399:24,25
battista 284:14bayview 325:2beach 290:5 344:18beat 431:2becoming 346:6bed 414:16bedaris 291:23,24
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 435
292:9,21 293:10293:17
began 335:24415:17 417:16
beginning 290:1291:13 351:17387:1 411:21
begins 381:24393:9 406:17
behalf 281:17283:8,11,13,16,18283:21,24 284:2,5284:7,10,12,15,17284:20,22,24285:1,3,4,7,9,11
bekkedam 332:3332:17 333:2387:12 397:5,12398:25 404:24
bekkedams 398:18believe 287:24
288:9 290:10292:8 296:2 297:7298:4 303:21316:8,11 320:9322:12 331:19,22332:19 338:13,15338:19 339:17341:3 346:15347:18,20 356:20357:2,6,22 358:25363:13 378:10,23379:18 383:19388:13 392:23402:10 404:22417:2 425:12426:13 428:12
believed 353:9364:2
believes 383:1bell 291:18 295:17
295:19 317:17benefit 299:10
329:14 378:1berga 284:6berger 283:10best 298:25 322:17
329:15 351:19390:5 392:9418:14 422:9423:8 426:23429:9
better 353:20426:25
bidding 288:16,22288:24
bif 332:1 334:21bifs 370:17big 299:23 303:19
394:17 412:15,16429:12
bigger 416:14,25417:1
bill 297:16,17413:24 418:18421:6,19,25423:19 424:6426:5
billing 284:12billion 348:21
353:24 354:1,2,3355:1,12 376:7
billionaire 390:14billions 377:5bills 407:5 422:11
422:14 423:11,14bit 294:7,15 300:3
300:4 302:4304:18 316:3,21358:3 368:21386:21 393:7
black 285:2blackberry 392:10
400:20bleak 400:18blond 296:24blow 302:8,16
369:8 404:12blowing 401:9board 287:14,22,25
287:25 288:1,2,2327:7 329:5,6
bob 407:4boca 416:3,24
boden 332:7bodner 304:19,21bolts 358:1bond 323:6bonuses 342:15borrow 301:1bosses 342:15bothering 321:24bottom 326:2
337:11 356:3358:11 379:5381:22 382:3,7387:6 392:5394:15
bova 365:25 399:1399:2
boys 287:9 288:14branch 290:14,15
292:8,10 296:1,3296:5 298:24427:21,25 428:1
brand 325:3brb 387:7,9breach 336:12break 348:2 355:19
355:20 383:5391:18 405:8419:22 428:16
breakfast 344:22breath 385:18brian 336:23
337:14 338:6349:25
briefly 417:5bring 302:20
334:20 346:7374:4 380:14389:11 392:11395:10 410:19,20
bringing 301:5brock 297:17
418:18 421:6,14421:19 425:18
broke 419:13broker 300:12brother 413:24brought 367:12
368:14broward 281:2
282:2 431:7 432:5buddy 400:17bug 392:6building 303:20
307:13,14 325:3bulk 422:13bunch 310:10
350:19 367:14375:20 383:20
business 308:14323:23 327:22358:14,16 359:21360:21 361:21362:24 365:23395:24 411:2,3419:16 420:21421:5,11 423:11430:3
businesses 377:25buy 307:2 327:19
327:23 329:21380:19 381:8394:18
buying 324:15397:16,17
Cc 284:14 432:1,1cadillac 323:24,24
324:19,19call 290:12 292:21
300:5 303:19306:12 313:5,14331:25 334:20382:15 384:23389:23 396:4405:17,18 407:14421:18 425:9
called 306:24322:21 347:16348:19 366:5390:15 415:24
calling 362:4407:10
calls 302:1 346:4
366:5calm 360:24 385:2
385:20candid 343:2cant 288:15 305:8
323:2 326:13352:24 375:2404:13 407:2409:1 427:19429:14
capital 282:22285:1 333:1393:23 395:16
caputi 294:10,15294:21 295:4,7,13295:14,22 296:9296:23 297:10,13297:20 298:7299:1
caputis 294:5car 324:4,5,25
325:9,14,17caran 283:23care 323:16 363:18
414:8,9caretsky 284:12
289:24 296:12297:4 419:6,25421:1,3,9 424:23424:25 425:17,18427:15
caretskys 427:25carnegie 307:14carol 282:4 285:11
318:21 319:3,13319:19 320:10,16320:19,22 321:24322:3
carry 331:20411:25
case 281:3 282:2,13282:14,16,18,20282:22,23,25311:20 313:10327:13 329:19337:24 340:13395:11,15
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 436
cases 375:22380:11,20,25381:9
casey 285:1cash 348:10 386:6
387:18 390:7393:16 407:2
catch 313:17,24catching 316:1categorize 299:11
299:13category 316:16cause 330:25 340:5caused 291:14,17cc 372:21 395:13cced 358:5cell 301:24 366:4central 308:3centurion 282:16
283:13,16 290:22300:4,6 303:9,14306:20 307:15308:14 309:11311:23 313:14,25316:22 329:20330:7 333:10335:4,19 337:23338:16 342:16347:17,21 355:6361:19 362:1363:10 373:12381:8,9 385:10386:19 389:11,15394:20 395:3396:7,22 398:9,15399:8 407:9
certain 288:11309:14 311:3312:7 339:10,11339:15 347:8357:16 361:19,21371:7,19 379:15401:7,7 419:14421:8 427:17,19431:5
certainly 302:12379:20 382:14
413:10 430:20certify 432:9cetera 314:1chag 400:20chain 291:17 333:3
333:4 376:23385:22 386:12392:4 394:2,3408:22
challenged 311:21chance 296:20
407:15 415:8change 290:9 314:7
352:8 357:19416:21
changed 314:5,7344:19 351:12,13353:6,8 357:18371:8
changes 314:6chapter 283:11charade 294:9charge 334:20charitable 282:18charities 287:7charles 283:10charter 310:21check 301:24
307:23 351:22checked 310:25checks 422:15,17cherry 427:7childhood 340:19
342:12 351:9children 324:15
413:14choke 335:10choked 331:4,11chris 291:23,24
292:9 293:10christopher 284:6chuck 414:17church 382:10
384:21 408:19chutzpah 353:23cimo 284:14circle 413:22
circuit 281:1,2282:1,1
circumstances291:20 295:7
claimed 345:12clarify 422:2cleaned 387:22clear 302:14 316:6
316:7 319:22343:10 362:8370:23,24 383:10400:7
cleared 388:8,11,12clearly 365:25
404:2 430:12client 430:14 431:7clients 342:4
358:25 382:25389:10
clock 430:5clockwork 331:25
334:21 336:6359:11 363:24364:13,13
close 319:21 339:14368:19 372:5404:6 413:20430:15
closed 326:5 341:6378:11 386:7387:19 392:8394:20 395:17,20
club 287:9 288:14clue 327:6coast 325:5cocalis 283:2cochran 284:12cocktails 366:1coconspirator
428:21coconspirators
419:18 428:6cocounsel 338:2
414:24coequal 304:25colleagues 414:19collection 381:10
395:23 396:19,25colorful 367:10
368:21 403:14colter 306:6,6
337:14colters 351:9columbia 284:24com 400:16combination 414:6combined 376:17come 290:7 295:14
298:11 302:14305:16 308:13309:5 316:14335:13 350:14369:17 372:15374:17,22 392:7392:23 393:1412:21 414:16418:3 425:9430:21
comfortable313:19
coming 313:4322:24,25 334:11334:13 342:9355:7 371:3 377:7384:9 386:17387:20 390:7423:21
comment 288:23comments 411:25commerce 416:6
424:12committed 400:19committee 283:18committing 302:24
420:8common 414:22communicate
385:14communicated
301:23 307:4385:10,11,12
communication301:12 364:15365:3
company 284:17306:23 308:10361:7
compare 354:25compensated
343:20,25 351:17407:11
compensating406:3
compensation304:14
complaint 320:23417:12 418:5419:17 428:6430:7
complete 311:9346:11,18 432:12
completed 311:10completely 315:6
346:6 376:12386:10 412:21423:15
compliance 371:15component 430:6compound 309:1
390:25concentrated
386:15concern 301:5,18concerned 360:11
402:4,15 411:8413:14
concerning 327:25390:11 397:13399:14,15 400:23401:10
concerns 360:5concise 370:8condo 419:14conduct 413:19confidant 401:19
422:22confident 402:25conflicted 402:10confused 351:23conjunction 413:4connection 414:20
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 437
conniption 374:12conrad 283:3considered 339:8consistent 339:7
368:22 401:11,14429:19,23
constantly 305:5329:11
construction324:18
consult 300:18consummated
357:20contact 307:16
334:14 363:22394:12,16,19395:13 412:20421:7 424:23425:5,8,9,13
contacted 346:2362:20 370:17,19404:17 412:14421:6
contacts 421:8contained 373:5
375:25contemplating
385:5contention 428:16context 339:4continually 369:3continue 364:19
431:9continued 286:6
287:1 428:24continues 322:8
325:15continuing 321:6,8
321:13 430:3contraction 325:16contribute 302:19control 426:11controlled 303:22conversation
302:20 322:22324:10 365:24403:3,4 404:2
406:9 425:23conversations
288:10,12 289:3301:21 304:9315:9,11 364:16364:18 384:3391:13 397:5,13401:24 418:23
cooperation 395:25copied 375:1
386:13copy 313:20 397:25
398:6 400:10406:22,24
coquina 292:21293:3 297:6 298:1332:8,9,11
correct 287:10289:13 297:22299:25 300:2311:24 314:2,4315:8 330:12,24331:11 332:20336:17 341:15352:18 354:14,15354:21,22 361:12379:15 396:17397:2,3 408:3412:7,8,10 414:25416:7 418:9424:18,19
corrected 313:18313:19 315:7375:4
correction 314:1corrections 314:10
315:18correctly 355:2
363:15 367:7381:14 394:24
cost 422:15costs 422:13cotzen 284:4couch 403:12,13couldnt 296:24
297:11 300:19376:14 420:25
421:2counsel 287:20
315:23 320:19411:12,17 431:5
country 415:13,22428:23
counts 417:17county 281:2 282:2
431:7 432:5couple 287:15
382:17 384:2431:2
course 303:2 307:1314:15 315:7316:18 340:13356:15 357:17374:11 377:21416:16 420:3423:12,23 426:23
court 281:1 282:1282:10 321:19391:3 417:6422:16
cover 328:1covered 425:11craig 284:11
420:11,14crash 292:17
320:11 324:9331:15,21 333:7333:11 334:4345:8 349:6,16366:11,14 371:6
crashing 335:14362:14 401:3
crazy 288:22 322:1355:4,8,12 382:21383:25 385:7409:2
create 301:20321:25 322:7354:6 360:2
created 327:1413:12
credibility 406:10406:13 407:11,19429:2
credit 329:17334:24 335:13363:3 365:11369:1 371:2378:10,14 383:22391:12 398:9,15406:12 410:24
creditors 283:19creek 298:24
429:10crimes 412:22,23criminal 302:24critical 370:19cross 410:13crossing 342:19crossover 333:4current 378:9
389:11curtis 337:17,22cusick 285:1customers 429:15cut 344:15 375:8
401:4 422:14cutting 362:10cypress 298:24
429:10
Dd 286:1 411:16
415:17,18,19419:19 420:4421:15,18 422:6,9423:7,9 424:12,13424:18,22 425:24426:12,14 428:6428:17,20,22429:18,23 430:8
d3 336:7 359:9dad 321:25 322:4daily 347:12 423:2damson 298:1,9,20
429:9dance 404:5,7,9dancing 430:18dark 296:25 297:2date 281:14 298:3
320:25 326:13
329:8 330:5,10366:21 372:24375:12 386:5393:4,5 400:13407:16 408:11412:24
dated 358:5 377:14386:3 406:25432:14
dates 284:1 357:18357:18
david 284:14304:19,21 327:13340:18,20 399:14401:10
dawned 412:4day 281:11 292:12
298:22 338:6343:14,24 347:12382:16 392:15411:3 432:14
days 335:2 342:23342:24 377:6387:22 414:24
daytoday 301:12301:15 306:13420:21
dead 334:25deadline 384:9deal 312:2,5,16,16
312:17,17,17,17315:2,6 317:14,21318:18,18 328:5344:12 351:20356:18,19,22357:6,13,20359:15 362:8367:4 368:12369:13,17 389:1,6407:22,23 409:14409:14
dealer 325:9dealership 323:24
324:4,6 325:1,2,4325:14,17
dealerships 324:13325:5
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 438
dealing 424:20dealings 401:4,22deals 304:16
311:14,23,23312:7,9,19 316:23317:11,16,20,24318:1,11 340:8,9356:17 357:2375:19 379:2388:15,25 395:21396:11,13,14,15397:15,17,17,19
dear 377:22deb 312:8 314:2deborah 313:19debra 315:11
418:18debrief 412:21deceive 419:21
428:9,18december 281:14
289:12 325:19326:14 329:10330:17,18 331:14333:25 432:14
decide 312:5decided 311:13
404:15 414:17decision 361:20decisions 303:23declared 348:17declaring 403:8decreasing 330:22deemed 421:7deep 385:18deeply 407:9deerfield 290:5,7
296:3default 348:18
361:4 362:23369:2,6 370:12371:5,9 396:15403:8
defaulted 348:24349:8
defaulting 349:1defaults 335:6
defective 313:13defendant 314:9,13
314:17 315:19357:21 375:24
defendants 281:8282:8 315:23350:13
defense 315:23deleted 400:2,7,9delray 325:4demanding 380:8demonstrate
314:20department 425:19depending 353:8
421:11depo 320:24deponent 328:24
329:1deposit 307:24deposition 281:12
294:21 321:6,8340:1,4,13,18345:12 346:20399:15
describe 426:10described 401:18
406:10 424:21describing 403:22description 297:8despite 362:9destruction 410:5
410:10details 300:16
404:20detect 289:16detected 302:8determine 334:14deutsch 285:10,11
318:25 319:5,7,16developing 331:13devoted 329:20diaz 284:7didnt 296:11,12
301:13 304:25312:23 313:3314:23 317:12
318:22 328:23332:17 336:7340:23 342:15343:24 346:1348:24 353:23356:8 360:20369:7 372:2,3381:18 397:19402:7 403:25413:13 418:17426:1 427:8
difference 316:18421:13,24 422:2423:5,8
different 290:15291:20 303:9,10303:11,18,21306:24 311:19313:15 333:8356:16 362:6402:13,14 416:25423:15
differentiate304:11
difficult 403:24414:7
difficulty 289:21diligence 290:18
295:9 303:1315:14 316:11333:5 364:17365:5
dinner 399:1,2,5,8416:1,3,23
direct 286:6,7287:1 297:24387:5 411:10425:6,22 426:1,17
direction 334:20424:25
directly 295:12313:20 332:18355:16 370:13,18420:3,6,25 424:17425:19
directors 287:15disappointed
342:13discala 332:1
363:23,25 364:14364:16 365:13,24
discover 302:23360:7,20
discuss 293:16294:7 326:3405:10,20 406:2
discussed 319:19325:7 327:21335:1 409:23412:17 416:4417:2,4
discusses 430:7discussing 311:12
320:18 371:18399:21 403:5415:23
discussion 311:10326:23 390:2,5,11391:6 411:3
discussions 339:11379:24
district 282:10,10division 282:11doctrine 410:4,4,9document 385:21documents 298:12
298:17 316:7371:15 386:7
doesnt 293:7295:19 297:8319:20 323:15325:17 361:1398:6
dog 305:23,25doing 290:17,17
293:22 302:25305:9,10 319:22323:12,12 324:12325:1,4 328:12333:5,13 338:7340:7,8 354:1362:18,23 365:4365:17,23 372:7388:23,23 402:21
416:18 419:15420:10 421:4,6,12421:24,25 423:16425:8 429:1,6,24
dollar 326:4,4,10326:11,24 327:9327:15 328:4,20329:4,25 330:1336:4 344:11
dollars 315:21328:5 330:3341:17 342:4347:4,5,9 348:21362:21 366:11375:3 376:3
don 282:25dont 288:9,16
290:2,24 291:5,17291:24 292:5294:20,24 296:7297:17 298:3302:7,15,15,17,23304:23 305:3,21307:19 309:15310:11,12 311:2317:8 318:13322:9,13 323:3,9323:11 327:6,16330:7 333:18337:13 342:22344:6,6,17 353:25354:1 355:9,15357:1,8,11,23358:16 359:20365:14 376:15378:24 379:14,17379:18,19 381:18385:11 386:14388:9 389:2,3392:19 393:4397:16,18,20399:4,5,11,21,24404:6 406:22,23408:7 417:2 418:1421:1,25 425:1,25427:17,21,22429:12
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 439
dot 400:16doug 287:25
288:17,23 289:3365:15 382:23,24383:6,7
dough 410:4,9dougs 386:6,11,16
386:17,19downturn 325:10dozen 294:19 418:1dozens 353:10drabs 348:12drafting 379:17drastic 423:8drastically 351:12drawer 314:14dressed 295:14dribs 348:12drilling 282:23drink 311:14drinking 366:1driving 297:14
322:1 409:1dual 339:8due 290:18 295:9
315:13 316:11333:5 348:5364:17 365:5372:14,15
duties 426:10
Ee 281:15 283:15
286:1 367:4 432:1432:1
e228396 385:23early 387:14easier 316:4easy 365:7ed 320:22 321:25
322:8,11 323:4edward 282:4effect 359:6 374:15efficient 415:16effort 340:9 378:1efforts 308:9 340:5
386:16 396:7
405:11eisinger 419:13,15either 292:6 308:10
310:17 319:25322:12 326:23347:24 352:22354:6 355:1363:13 379:3414:13,20 415:21
elements 311:11eliminate 378:9elliot 337:18,22ellis 423:19email 289:8,11,12
289:16,22,23291:16,19 296:4302:14 307:5311:4 317:3,4318:21,24 319:3319:13,18,24322:21 325:19326:3 327:24331:17 336:22337:5 338:5 339:4347:25 348:1349:24 353:13354:4 355:11356:1,5 357:12358:4,12 361:3,17370:18 372:20374:17 375:6376:12,23 377:13381:2,20,21 382:9382:20 383:11,12385:9 386:3,12,23387:6,17 388:6389:8,20 391:21392:15,17,24393:2,6,13,18394:2 395:12397:22 398:5399:23 400:22401:11 406:8,8,14406:16,23,25407:16 408:2,5,20409:3
emails 291:14
302:2 313:16317:11,20 322:3339:16,21 344:24346:3 347:14,22353:7,10 356:15360:23 368:22370:7,7,13 374:24385:22 386:21392:25 398:17400:2,8,9 410:8423:16,18 424:9425:2,13 426:4,5427:18
emess 285:1 332:10332:11 336:13
empire 307:13enabled 419:20
428:7enclosed 387:20
392:15ends 381:24 394:7
406:17 408:13engage 350:14engaged 302:3,10
350:16 424:22english 318:23enhanced 296:10enlisted 300:12entertainment
310:22entire 309:16 315:7
321:3 335:13346:8 383:8 401:8403:6 414:14415:14
entities 304:15,15310:13
entitled 357:15entity 301:16
310:11,12entries 337:12envelope 295:13equity 300:25error 313:17,24
377:10errors 313:6escalated 322:21
especially 421:21esquire 283:2,2,3,5
283:8,10,13,15,17283:20,21,23284:1,1,4,6,9,11284:14,16,19,19284:22,24 285:1,2285:4,6,8,10
essence 395:23essentially 340:7
404:25 405:2establish 331:23
335:17established 360:19establishment
427:1estate 424:9et 281:4,7 282:7,12
282:12,17,22,24314:1
ethically 320:2evaluate 309:20evening 392:7event 288:20
310:14events 403:22eventually 375:4
427:24everybody 332:22
355:19 372:17390:8 399:25410:10 411:8
exact 357:1 361:4387:16 393:5
exactly 344:16379:18
exam 411:20examination
281:21 286:4287:1 333:24334:8 411:10,21
examine 300:4356:15
example 413:21,25429:9
examples 429:8excellent 335:5
349:18 364:3365:22 366:2369:4 370:11
exception 423:18exclusive 388:18,20
388:20exclusively 388:24
388:25excuse 326:13
333:20 338:3349:16 384:8
exhibit 286:10,12286:13,13,14,14286:15,15,16,16286:17,17,18,18286:19,19,20,20286:21 325:23337:1 350:3,7351:24 352:23355:24 356:1,3358:8 366:16,24373:1 375:5,14377:12 381:25385:24 387:2392:1 393:10394:8 398:1 400:5406:19 408:15417:7,8,11
exhibits 286:11existed 303:21existence 350:11
370:8existing 299:16exjudge 328:4,17expand 325:15expanding 325:14expansion 325:1,1
325:2expansions 325:5expected 300:1
363:19 374:13406:9,12
expedited 425:16experience 306:16
404:19explain 300:22
302:21 303:16
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 440
312:2 352:22,24361:16 368:16373:18,23 401:21404:3 421:23
explained 307:1410:3,7,12 427:10431:5
explanation 316:14316:15,20
explanatory 430:24expletives 302:17explode 369:23
403:16 410:15exploded 372:19exploding 368:7explosion 403:5
410:2exposed 301:7
335:14expressed 301:17
348:13 423:10extend 411:25extensively 320:16
320:17extent 300:21
338:20,20,23364:20
extradited 412:9extradition 412:6extremely 339:14
368:23 414:7422:21 428:24429:16 430:13
Ff 302:17 322:23
407:6,22 432:1fabrication 346:12facade 299:15face 369:1faces 368:8 403:17facetious 314:15facetoface 401:25facilities 419:21
428:8 430:7,10,15facility 329:18
430:20
facing 403:13fact 290:2 292:16
293:17 307:6314:17,19 315:12315:20 345:5349:5 357:10361:10 362:2,9363:2 366:1 370:9371:3 379:1 385:8398:19 403:5409:24 414:22415:23 416:12418:24 428:21,25
factions 339:10356:16 359:14
facts 309:3 331:14428:15
factual 428:12fair 413:1 416:22
420:2 430:7fairly 370:23faith 430:5fall 298:4 307:21
333:2false 291:4familiar 429:5family 317:24
324:14,25 325:14359:4,9 391:16413:11
fanny 343:3far 299:14 339:16
343:19 370:7384:18 390:4391:7 402:15419:24
fashion 403:15father 318:15
323:18,19,20345:6,9 403:23,24
favor 394:17fc 358:6fears 301:9february 389:5federal 284:17
324:20 325:2fee 326:5,10,16,17
326:20,25 327:8327:10,15 328:9329:4
feeder 332:5363:23 365:4366:12,13
feeders 333:5334:12 335:18,20
feel 339:25 361:1fees 422:16feigned 369:11fell 339:24 410:8fellows 287:16felt 339:10,12,14
343:22 380:12402:1
fepict 285:9fidelity 282:18fiery 410:11fighting 356:19
404:13figure 322:3 352:13
383:18 407:7figuring 319:21filed 291:2 417:12filing 422:16fill 421:20filled 418:15finalize 383:3finally 355:22financial 304:11,12
331:22 332:25347:1 361:21421:17 422:23
financially 324:12financials 306:4financier 301:6financing 300:24
306:16,24,25find 296:8 324:8
339:17 393:1400:18 406:14425:12
finding 428:20fine 323:15 325:17
390:17finish 369:25 370:4
391:20finished 370:1fire 285:3 410:10
410:10firm 299:14,15,17
422:19 423:14424:4
firms 303:3 306:16419:8
first 293:21 300:9305:19 317:10322:11 326:17335:20 337:16343:15 344:18,20350:6,23 352:8,14356:8 358:21365:1 366:17378:10 379:2385:4 386:2387:25 388:5,9396:4 398:11400:17 404:5,6,7404:9,9 406:8413:17 415:12420:19
fits 297:8five 291:7,9 352:6
387:15 405:5fix 313:21fl 281:15 392:7flames 410:11floor 303:22 325:18
430:19flores 284:1florida 281:2,24
282:2,10 325:6348:25 415:21418:16 432:4,9
flow 395:21 396:18396:24 397:2
flows 395:24fly 305:21focus 338:10
420:19 422:24focused 322:16fold 391:10folks 299:24 328:17
336:14 345:11377:2 383:16392:18 401:2
follow 365:7 394:3following 348:5
352:5 374:17377:24 402:22407:3
follows 352:6followup 411:16foreclose 348:11foregoing 432:10forensic 333:25
334:8 371:22372:3
forged 289:17,20forget 367:2forgive 421:23forgotten 318:7
398:21form 287:17
292:13,23 293:5293:12 295:1,18296:15 305:2308:17,18 309:23312:19 318:25319:5,16 328:1,7328:21 333:23334:5 336:1,9,15337:25 338:18339:2,6 340:15341:8,10,21 342:7342:18 343:4344:13 345:15346:13 348:18349:4,14,20350:18 354:20360:9,15 362:16368:3 369:14371:17,24 373:17378:16 379:13380:4 381:1,3390:22 405:14410:21 420:5429:21,25 430:11
format 312:10357:14
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 441
former 376:6forms 375:23fort 281:24 282:11
287:9forth 317:20 394:6
427:18fortunately 425:4forward 358:15
365:23 378:2390:4 392:8
forwarded 407:25forwarding 313:13found 361:1 395:8
406:16foundation 287:18
287:19 309:4310:5
four 317:6fourth 281:15fp 366:19 377:15
381:24 387:1406:17 408:13
fp0163402 377:15fp165165 393:9frame 389:18frank 284:5,10
292:22 293:2,9,11293:16,17,19301:23 304:2306:3 309:14312:4,5,5,10,11312:15,18 314:1326:24 328:13339:14 356:22357:4 363:7366:17,18 367:21367:23 369:20377:3,15 382:10382:19,20 383:21384:9,14,24387:19,24 388:6389:10 392:6,6,11393:22 397:22398:4 406:25407:15,23 408:10408:19 420:25421:8
franks 392:15frantic 372:9
383:15 384:7396:9
fraud 297:22 299:2302:8,10,11,16316:10 360:8402:11,12 403:24420:9
fraudulent 302:12314:6,8
free 395:21 396:18396:24 397:2
freeing 414:4frequent 313:6
315:9,10frequently 301:14
301:23 307:4313:8 320:17322:2 323:25360:23
friday 337:13friend 324:1
338:11 340:19342:12 351:9
friendly 426:21friends 324:1,2
325:8 413:23front 298:8 365:16
376:23 400:23frozen 379:9fuck 367:5fucking 367:6full 318:2 358:14function 288:15,16functional 422:1fund 282:19 290:22
309:18 310:10332:2 335:23340:5 341:6,9342:14 359:1,5,12359:17 362:1,13364:1,22 365:2380:10 381:4383:16 385:5395:17,18 397:13397:13 402:14
407:8funded 380:13funders 334:21funding 281:4
307:2 312:18329:10 330:14,23331:4,7,18 335:18335:24 344:15357:18 378:6381:11 401:5
funds 283:13290:12 299:13,14300:5,5,10,22301:4,10 303:10303:18,19 304:4305:1,23 309:16312:13 313:14327:2 329:9,16330:21 331:18332:3,5 333:10,10334:14,14,25335:3 339:13,19341:4,12 342:9343:20,23 344:14346:8 348:18,19348:20 349:2350:11,22,24351:6 355:16356:16,20 361:18362:10,18 363:13363:23 364:2365:4,20,22 366:2366:10,12,12,14368:25 370:12371:1,11 373:12378:6,24 379:1,10379:10,20,25380:14,17 381:10383:18 386:6388:1,12,14,18,21388:24 390:11,16390:19 393:23394:17 395:11,20395:22 396:11,14396:18,22,24397:2 401:4,5,13401:16 402:14
403:6 405:1 417:4423:20
furnishing 376:21further 340:7,9
342:11 411:4future 365:12
395:19 404:17fyi 387:13
Gg 284:6 367:2
375:19game 386:7garbled 366:13garsis 296:2,3general 411:2
421:4,11 423:10generally 293:20
302:11 312:1318:16 322:10334:10 374:11389:22 420:21
genovese 283:21284:14 415:6
gentleman 303:24415:20
george 284:19305:21 358:5363:7 377:13,22377:23 381:22382:4,5,9,13,19384:8,21,23 386:3387:13,18 403:9408:6,7,8,9,20423:21
getting 298:14,15310:9 316:5336:19 341:23,25363:20 377:24384:25 385:18386:11 390:8394:18 403:7416:16 425:11
gibraltar 282:14284:2 416:17422:6 423:6,15424:2,6,13 425:14
429:4,5gift 282:19gil 306:6gill 351:9gillad 306:6 337:14girls 287:9 288:14give 309:6,17
318:19 335:12347:7 351:11354:13 362:19370:19 371:1383:3 389:18390:19 394:23396:7 409:6414:13 427:11429:8 431:1
given 339:4 364:20365:11
giving 363:3 391:7394:19 406:3,11
glass 304:13 306:23309:13,19 310:8310:14,17 311:12345:18,22 346:14346:20 362:3363:11,16 364:8365:3,7 372:21374:16 376:24377:13 382:17383:17 391:22399:2,9
gnashing 378:3go 289:7 290:14
291:17 292:1294:15 295:12298:17 302:6309:7 310:7,19,20311:13 314:3316:8 323:17327:5 335:17346:2 354:23357:25 360:2,4361:3 366:6,18370:1 381:22388:5 393:8 394:6400:14 403:17,18403:18,25 406:22
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 442
414:5 417:1,3430:21 431:4
gobetween 407:8goes 378:5 382:10
384:21 388:8410:10
going 288:21 290:3290:13 292:10293:3 294:13297:18 299:8300:22 301:1,2,19301:20 302:14,18302:18,19 304:17304:18 305:20,23307:22 310:10,14311:13,18 313:4314:11 315:14,15316:10 320:20322:4,7,23 323:17324:19 327:23328:15 329:8334:7,10 335:9,10335:10,11 337:5339:5,9 341:5346:9,25 347:9354:5 355:17358:1,15,20 360:2362:9,13 367:14368:1,6,16 369:8369:22 370:16,19370:24 371:1,2372:12,15 374:5,7374:18 375:1379:25 380:15383:2,13,14,15,19384:18,25 385:2,7386:13,15,20,23387:5 389:20390:4,14 391:1,20393:7 398:13401:2,6 402:11,12403:1,16,21407:10 409:4,7,24410:15 411:15412:18,21,23414:13,14,15,16416:1,8 421:17
423:13 425:19428:16
goldberg 283:17goldstein 283:15golf 344:1,4,5,6,6
344:10good 287:3,4
302:18 323:15341:22,23,25366:6 370:22384:3 400:20403:7 404:18416:18,21
goodboy 340:4gotten 290:12
315:5 366:2411:17
government 285:7grand 367:13 368:1grant 327:9great 293:15
336:21 343:2363:8 365:21398:10 428:19
greenberg 283:23greet 306:4ground 398:10group 285:9 325:8
331:25 332:1334:22 364:8,9379:6 390:13397:6,11 398:18400:15 402:4416:13
grouped 332:22grouping 332:20grow 428:24growth 282:17
324:13guarantees 300:25guess 290:19
296:10 300:5305:15 306:11,11311:19 337:16
guest 311:1guy 306:12 404:8
415:22
guys 337:16 340:7343:1 345:12355:7 360:8387:18 392:8
Hh 283:21hadnt 408:18hair 296:25,25
297:2half 294:19 353:19
353:19 354:3356:1 375:9398:23 409:6
hall 307:14halloween 331:15hand 314:17 315:4
338:10handcuffs 353:21handful 419:16handle 301:9
309:16 310:18394:21 418:17421:21
handled 306:13418:18 425:17
handles 395:17handling 306:13handoff 296:12hands 304:17 327:3
344:19 407:3hanging 392:25
394:16 402:1happen 315:22
397:20 404:13happened 314:12
314:19 315:3316:1 336:19373:25 381:17383:24 399:5413:3
happening 381:19401:15
happens 395:24happy 323:19,20
329:12 396:4harassing 299:9
hard 338:12 339:3343:22 400:11
harm 403:10harris 416:17
423:19harvey 283:13hasnt 382:6havent 328:2
395:14 415:13hayworth 416:18head 310:12 361:25
384:5 392:12393:4 425:2,25427:22
headache 301:19322:9 416:17,19
heading 415:21headquarters
298:24hear 304:19 328:23
384:8heard 292:16
304:23 340:20363:16,17 382:5,6382:20 385:4,6395:14 408:10,18429:3
hearing 305:3,4340:25 343:15
hearsay 324:17364:21
heated 322:22heating 295:9heavyset 296:25
297:2heck 322:4 376:18hedge 290:12 300:5
303:18 309:15312:13 329:9,16334:24 335:3339:13 350:22351:6 355:15356:16,20 388:1388:14,18,22,24390:16 393:23395:11 396:14,21401:3,4,16 402:14
402:14 403:6407:8 417:4
held 373:12hell 355:16 367:5
375:1hello 325:11help 320:6 332:21
335:22 340:4348:22 370:21386:21 392:22393:17 405:12407:1 425:2429:14 430:21
helped 429:7,8430:21
helping 297:21400:19
herbert 283:11heres 321:23hes 288:25 289:1
308:24 325:12,13339:23 341:11344:25 345:3,3357:13 360:24374:10 376:2,3393:14 395:19407:7 409:1
hey 367:2 392:6400:17
hi 391:22 394:16395:13
high 422:21highest 330:14highlighted 326:2
337:4 351:25356:6 377:21386:5 388:10389:9 398:7 409:5409:8
highway 324:20325:3
hill 427:7hit 317:3 371:23
372:2hofrichter 284:16
284:17hold 348:22 384:4
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 443
home 298:23365:16 412:12
homes 324:15hope 349:10 377:25
394:16hopefully 391:20host 421:10hotel 310:25hour 431:2house 405:12houston 285:4huberfeld 303:24
304:5 305:1,13327:5 328:20337:15 356:20
hundred 333:20334:3 336:4341:17,18 353:19
hundreds 302:1315:21
hung 425:11hurt 414:12
Iid 294:7 300:6
310:19 312:2,4331:13 336:22355:24 373:13,21388:5 400:10
idea 338:1 384:17identification
325:24 337:2350:4,12 358:9366:25 373:2375:15 377:18382:1 385:25387:3 392:2393:11 394:9398:2 400:6406:20 408:16417:9
identified 365:2398:25
identify 297:11identifying 398:24idiot 388:8ill 287:20 296:8
300:24 309:6310:20,21,21311:4 314:25323:3 329:18332:16 334:10,20343:8 357:25379:5 392:23393:1 394:13405:17 406:15411:6,16
illegal 299:14,20402:21 403:1410:19 413:19420:10 422:25
illegally 361:14illegitimate 422:12im 287:19 288:10
290:1 292:2294:13 308:24314:14 320:20323:12 325:6331:10 333:18334:7,10 336:18337:4,10 339:11343:10,15 344:8345:17,18 346:17347:1 351:23352:13 353:7355:2 357:10358:20 368:22,22376:12 377:22381:22 382:15384:17 386:15,20386:23 387:5388:13,22 389:20390:9 392:12394:19 399:24400:19 404:13407:12 408:8409:4,7 411:7,12411:15 412:17,21412:23 414:7,16415:12 416:15,16420:13 421:8422:12 428:1
imagine 302:2immediate 366:5
immediately 317:2389:25
impacts 358:16359:20
impending 386:20impetus 391:16implied 310:3imploding 368:20important 361:23
389:24 404:16impounded 378:6
378:24 379:10,20380:16
impression 320:5430:13
improper 313:10included 364:7including 331:5
357:7 363:23414:23
income 332:2335:23 359:1,5,11359:17 385:5395:17,18 424:4
incorrect 353:15383:11
increasing 299:16independent
297:18 307:20350:17,22 351:18397:20 399:11
index 286:4,10indicate 316:8indicators 316:6,7indirectly 420:3individuals 364:21
364:23 365:2421:10
influx 333:1information 343:12
343:14 363:2infusion 390:7initial 314:10initially 303:8,16
347:10initials 314:6,8inject 382:22
inquires 318:14321:24 322:5
inquiries 378:11,14inquiry 411:20insisting 401:6,7instance 416:10instances 295:3,4instantaneously
314:12instigating 416:12institutional 301:6instruct 424:5instructions 298:13
309:17instrumental 430:2insurance 284:17
284:24,25,25integral 334:22intention 340:8interest 304:4,5,10
304:12 357:16interested 299:7
327:22 408:8interests 348:11interim 396:4internally 339:18
426:3,6interpreted 353:18interrupt 357:11interrupted 321:11interviewed 414:24introduced 351:3,5introducing 301:16invest 345:2,3,4
382:24 385:9invested 430:4investigation
290:19investing 288:4,8
310:4 354:18356:17 362:10366:10,14 390:15
investment 289:4300:23 309:20,21310:4 315:8,17324:24 331:1335:5,13 345:1
348:25 349:11356:19 362:21364:3 369:5370:11 385:5386:20 389:17390:3,10 391:14395:16 396:1397:6 398:20404:18 405:19,21406:4
investments 289:1298:2 299:16306:3 308:15323:6,14 324:11354:18 381:11429:2
investor 293:17316:19,20 348:9396:22 418:3
investors 287:16292:6 295:10296:17,20 299:21303:1 316:1,13,16316:16 331:5334:11,12 338:11338:17,20,24342:3 348:21,23349:8,17 361:22362:20 363:3365:4,12 368:25370:17 372:14384:11 385:16,18393:15 395:9,11402:7,7 404:17405:13 407:8416:13,13 419:21423:1,3 428:9,18430:3,12
involve 328:18involved 287:16,22
290:1 294:10300:14,21 304:8306:5,19,23307:18 312:8320:19 326:17,20336:14 351:12356:21,22,23
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 444
357:4,6,13,15359:8,11,12 360:8361:14 362:1,7370:23 380:9384:23,24 389:24391:9,15 396:14402:13 403:23407:24 410:18
involvement 294:5301:10 390:12410:13
involving 293:21386:18
iolta 418:16irene 418:18 421:6
421:20 422:22423:19 424:7426:5
island 292:10isnt 322:24 353:5
360:14 410:18isolated 305:11issuance 429:22issue 377:8 417:15issues 360:2 404:10
412:17 424:18,21issuing 429:18item 288:24 430:23items 414:3 421:21ivan 283:3ive 318:7 337:4
400:23 429:3431:5
Jj 282:4 407:5jack 285:8 290:10
304:1,13 306:10306:10,11 307:7,9326:5,17,18,19,21326:24 327:7,13328:14 329:5,12336:22 337:10,18338:6,7,9,15340:18 341:3342:12 343:13,19344:15 345:22
346:5 347:15,24356:21 361:23363:13 365:7367:3,19,23 368:9368:13,15 372:21377:13 384:14385:16 391:21392:13 393:14,22395:13 396:4398:10,18 399:10399:16,23 400:11400:15,20,22405:11 406:10407:7,10,23,23,25409:24 410:3
jacks 339:8 394:20401:10
jackson 325:11james 285:2january 350:1
352:4 354:24355:5 372:25374:17 375:7,12376:8,8,9 377:5
jedwab 336:23337:15 338:6339:18 349:25
jersey 427:8jesus 284:22jet 310:21jews 400:18job 338:10 341:23
341:25 350:8,20416:18 422:23
joblove 284:14john 283:21 284:19
320:20 415:22joke 323:25 325:8
325:12jr 285:2judge 319:14,18
327:14 402:6judges 327:19judicial 281:2
282:1julius 403:23jumped 336:12
june 394:5,11395:2 396:3,7,15397:22 398:5
jury 302:22
Kkathleen 297:5,6
298:1,8,19 429:10keep 325:14 327:7
329:12 360:24362:13,22 372:10385:1,19 393:7
keeping 305:11kept 404:10kerstetter 289:25
419:4,25 421:3,9427:23 428:3430:18
key 305:10 311:11362:21 407:7
kids 387:15kill 414:14kilter 384:1kind 287:15 288:17
288:20 296:25297:8,24 322:9323:10 327:8331:3 335:17347:10 353:15371:11 374:5390:19,20 400:11422:14
king 282:25knew 316:9 321:7
321:13 327:6328:9,13 359:6362:7 386:17401:6 402:7,10,12402:25 410:12416:24 417:1420:8,8 423:2426:18
know 287:5,7,14288:4,7,9 289:2292:5,5,20,24293:6,25 294:4,8297:1,12 298:2
300:9 304:25305:16 306:9308:9,24 310:11310:13 316:9317:8 327:4,16,17329:17,23 330:2,7330:16 332:16333:16 334:18337:13 340:23342:20,22 343:17343:21 344:6346:11,15 348:20349:12,15 351:2,7351:13 353:1,7,25356:11 357:4,8358:14,22 359:3360:25 361:10362:7,12 363:4367:3,3 369:10,12372:18 373:8374:22 375:10376:15,22 377:5378:24 379:14,18380:20 381:16383:5,7,8,8,10384:10,13,14,16384:18 385:8,11386:16 387:9389:2 392:19,20393:3,21,24 397:4399:25 402:8,11404:6,7,23 407:18407:21 408:8411:12 412:22417:24 418:21,23420:10 421:2424:24 425:1426:1 427:2,16,17427:20 428:15429:6,16
knowing 290:3342:8 367:4
knowledge 300:11305:12 327:10,11327:18 334:13335:15 363:21402:15,17,18,20
413:20 414:22418:21 426:24
known 416:5kopas 283:3 289:9
325:21 336:24350:2 358:6366:19 372:22375:8,12 377:15380:4 381:1,23385:23 386:25391:23 393:9394:7 397:24400:4 406:17408:13
kozyak 283:5
Ll 283:10,23 432:8
432:18label 375:8labeled 325:21
336:24 358:6366:19 372:22386:25 391:23397:24
lack 287:17 309:3353:20 407:2
laid 289:24 403:13landed 396:3lane 404:10language 368:21large 325:2 332:25
429:17 432:9largest 428:22,23larry 383:2late 307:21 386:5
407:14laterio 292:20
293:22lauderdale 281:24
282:11 287:9laughing 343:1launder 422:4laur 337:18,22lavecchio 285:6lavin 387:13law 284:17 285:11
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 445
299:14,15,17303:3 306:16423:14 424:4
lawrence 285:6lawsuit 291:2,3,4,5lawyer 318:22,23
320:6,6,10 323:1323:7 382:15,22384:22
lawyers 302:25305:7 337:22346:3
lay 322:25 398:10laying 287:19lead 390:15leading 308:23
334:19 390:24leaf 282:23learn 303:14
304:12 369:17,19learned 303:10,18
304:10 346:18lease 308:5,7leave 332:15led 408:22lefebure 299:8,9left 306:7,7 382:16
392:25 405:6415:13 427:1,4,8427:11
legal 304:11legitimate 315:2,17
327:9 422:10,11423:11 424:4
lend 429:2lenders 394:19
419:22 428:9,18lending 429:23length 335:1
414:23letter 292:11,22
293:11,18 361:5366:16,17 380:8402:6 420:23
letterhead 429:19letters 429:18,22
430:2
letting 322:5level 290:23 300:6
301:17 303:9,15307:15 308:14309:11 313:25315:13,14 316:11323:1 329:20330:3,10,14,23333:10,12 335:4335:19 336:4337:23 338:16342:16 347:17,21348:19 355:6357:8 361:19362:2 363:9 371:7389:11 394:20396:22
levels 333:8 335:15402:15
levin 300:12 301:3301:14 305:12,20308:10 333:3358:5 363:8,16377:13 379:24381:22 382:4383:16 386:3391:11 408:6,7,8408:9
levins 423:21levinson 285:4license 328:10licensing 326:4,10
326:16,17,20,25327:8,10 328:9
lichtman 283:10286:7 400:7 411:6411:11 417:6,10420:13,16 425:4430:25 431:10,12431:15
lie 346:18 369:8,9405:1,2,3 414:11
lied 368:25life 413:17 414:14lifshitz 292:6lighting 403:9likewise 424:14
limit 365:1limited 425:5linda 288:1line 321:3 329:17
329:25 330:1379:5 384:22411:19
lines 340:11lippman 415:20
416:2 417:2,3list 288:2 389:10listen 370:16listened 412:3literally 301:25
384:1litigation 306:25
307:2 404:1little 289:21 294:7
294:15 300:3,4302:3,13 304:18316:3,21 331:13343:22 347:16,18351:23 358:3360:21 367:12,20367:21 368:21386:21 393:7429:14
lived 365:16 414:11living 344:2 414:10llc 281:4 282:17,22
284:7 285:1llp 283:3lmb 389:3,5 407:12loan 301:2local 390:14lock 292:11,22
293:11,18 420:23429:18,22 430:2
locked 348:10long 292:10 416:20longer 344:15
429:2look 319:4 329:8
353:6 374:3376:10 389:3400:18 405:6406:23 408:21
417:20 423:16,18424:3 430:17
looked 376:17399:17 401:8
looking 323:11365:21,23 374:9376:15 406:14425:12
looks 375:9,10losing 410:23losses 349:19lost 308:5lot 288:25 360:5
414:6,7 416:19418:2 423:11427:11,11 429:13429:13
loud 384:6lousy 314:22,23,25low 352:20loyalty 339:10,12
339:15,22lss 282:13lucrative 356:24
357:2lump 312:21
314:18lunch 383:6 414:18luncheon 382:23lydecker 284:7lying 340:7 343:3
345:12 369:10lyles 284:12
Mm 281:15,15 283:20
285:10,11 381:8400:17 407:1,17431:16
mad 410:4,9madam 321:17maha 296:1main 391:10
416:12 421:8422:8,24 424:23427:7 430:1
maine 322:15
major 303:23325:15 393:15
majors 393:24making 288:25
298:2 308:18321:24 322:5323:14,22 361:21363:20 378:14408:2 411:8 423:1423:1
mallet 337:17,22man 297:11 382:21
413:16management
349:18manager 306:12
427:22managers 427:24manella 337:14manfredi 299:7manhattan 308:3maple 282:23marc 283:8margaret 324:2,10marine 285:3mark 304:1,6,7,8
305:16 326:7346:10 363:14365:7 385:17391:22 392:13394:16 395:14397:4,9 398:19409:21
marked 289:6325:24 337:2350:4 358:9366:25 373:2375:15 377:17382:1 385:25387:3 392:2393:11 394:9398:2 400:6406:20 408:16417:8
marks 367:15mary 284:1massive 422:19
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 446
match 313:3376:20
math 313:5 377:11380:12
matter 307:6318:15 319:6345:5 357:10423:23
matters 416:10matthew 284:1mauro 284:12maurry 304:5mazzseo 407:4mean 293:15 294:9
296:10 305:25319:20 329:7338:16 339:4346:4 353:2357:11 358:19359:24 366:12369:1,7 384:1388:21 390:4,8,10390:18 391:7396:20 408:22412:13 423:13430:12
meaning 292:17301:11 309:17316:9 324:5 349:6380:11 383:16,17403:6 422:11425:23
means 320:1 323:1353:3 362:11378:24 379:18394:3 395:6,8396:21
meant 302:7 341:9343:18 361:16368:2,5,6 378:23379:21 401:1410:2
meet 296:18 306:4meeting 297:25
305:19 306:6,8319:14,18 382:23389:14,21,24
390:1 392:14,18392:19,20,21393:3,5 402:22403:11 415:25
meetings 386:18mel 292:6meldow 324:2,3,10members 391:16memoranda 303:4memorandum
358:24 359:17memorialized
378:8memory 288:12
291:7 292:9 298:3324:18 373:9,10401:10 422:10
mental 413:15mentally 416:20mention 289:2mentioned 287:8
293:9 340:22,23357:7 363:22,23413:9,21 416:9,23419:24
mess 413:12message 407:14met 305:13,18
352:4methodology
306:25 327:1380:15
miami 281:15michael 283:17
284:4 324:2 352:3middle 316:22
376:8 398:8409:10 430:18
mike 325:10349:24 374:25
million 308:25316:24 317:11,14317:16,20,21326:3,4,5,10,11326:24 327:9,15328:4,5,20 329:4329:25 330:1,3
333:20 334:1,4336:4 341:17,18341:18,19 342:4344:11 347:4,5,9347:14,15,23,25348:2 352:15,16352:16,16,17353:19,19 355:1356:6,11 359:4,4362:8 371:12,14372:6 374:13376:4 377:4380:10,13,20,21380:24 381:10382:24,25 383:1,1385:9 387:14,15387:22,23 407:13
millionandahalf371:13
mind 333:3 336:19414:4 430:9
minimal 333:12,13333:14
minimum 371:12minute 290:9
309:25 371:8409:6
minutes 342:25343:13 357:9376:7 382:17405:5 411:7415:15 424:16431:3
mira 367:4 392:7409:15,24
miras 410:1mischaracterizes
340:15 381:1mishmash 303:19misinterpreted
411:1misnomers 302:9missed 329:3misstatement
395:18mistaken 325:6
426:4 428:1
mistakes 315:15316:13
moment 296:22297:18 312:9404:15
money 287:8288:25 298:14,15298:16 299:19300:13 301:1313:3 314:17,18315:4,6 317:5323:6,14 324:24327:7 328:13329:13 330:13338:25 340:6,10341:14,16,23,25342:2,3,6 344:23347:8,11,19348:12 354:7,8,13362:25 363:19371:3 372:3,9,12372:15 374:4384:25 386:11,16386:17 388:2,14395:10 396:14,23403:7 422:4,25423:2,12,13,20424:1,7,12,14425:20 426:3,6429:13,15
monies 374:3month 371:5,12,14
371:14 383:2398:23,23
monthly 423:3morning 289:12,16
294:4 317:12354:10 399:14431:6
morocco 412:5morroco 412:14morse 282:4,4,4
285:11 287:25316:21,23 317:7317:19,24,24318:8,21 319:19320:10,22,22
323:22 324:19413:24
morses 284:20moskowitz 283:5mother 345:6,9move 321:4 324:16
336:15 340:2343:4 345:15360:3 364:19378:2 392:22416:25 420:11,14422:5 424:7,12426:6
moved 427:13428:4
movement 422:21423:20
moving 422:25428:20
mullin 284:19320:20,20 321:7321:10,12,16324:16
multiple 290:25315:23,23 361:24363:4,5
murray 303:24305:1,6,9,9,11311:15 327:5328:6 337:15361:13,25 362:4,7362:10 367:5368:11
murrays 409:25410:12
mutual 324:2mutually 410:5,9
Nn 281:15 282:20
283:24 286:1name 304:20,23
337:16 340:20,25394:19 417:23419:21 428:8,17428:25 429:23
named 303:24
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 447
415:22names 313:10
394:18 419:24narrow 413:22near 395:19necessarily 355:11
402:11necessary 300:22
370:10 421:7need 311:1,2,3
314:23 322:6,9323:3,10,11 326:3348:22 353:11358:15 372:3385:1 386:5387:19 392:11394:16,21 404:11407:3,3,6 423:2425:5 429:12
needed 295:10,13298:11,14 299:24311:16,20 312:6313:18,18 314:7318:17,18,19322:3 323:19,20327:7 329:12334:24 353:9360:4,11 374:4383:4 415:23416:14 417:1420:22 425:8,10425:15
needing 417:3needs 305:10
407:11neglected 294:4
355:25negotiating 380:5negotiations
300:15 383:15388:7
neither 305:11never 316:17 340:8
371:23 374:20388:20 419:16429:3
new 290:11 292:10
301:16,17 305:24308:4,6 311:15312:1,14,15 325:4330:21 332:4333:2,5,10 334:11334:12,12 335:18342:25 344:2,23362:20,21,25363:19,23 366:12366:13 368:25371:2,15 379:10380:25 383:2,20385:15,18 390:6395:9 396:22397:17 405:12407:8 415:23418:3 427:7
night 378:2nlt 380:11 381:9nobodys 410:17non 324:16 420:11
420:14nonfund 364:21nonhighlighted
380:7nordlicht 304:1,3,6
304:7,13,14305:16 309:14310:16,17 311:16346:6 355:7356:21 361:25362:3 363:14,18364:9,16 365:3,8370:14,15,15377:13 383:17385:17 389:16390:1 391:22394:5,11,15395:13 396:2397:4,10 398:19402:20 409:18,19409:21 410:4
nordlicthts 392:24normal 318:23normalization
395:24normally 290:14
north 292:8notary 432:8note 318:19 414:2notes 318:12
432:12notice 307:4noticed 413:18notify 312:18november 349:16number 290:24
291:3 294:20327:20,23 356:2378:25,25,25381:24 394:23397:25 415:24417:7
numbers 290:25313:9,9,10 352:7352:7,10,11355:13 371:23374:23 375:20
numerous 401:24417:23
nurik 283:8 412:14431:4
nuts 357:25
Ooath 287:5object 287:17
292:13,23 293:5293:12 295:1,18305:2 308:17309:23 319:5321:3 328:7,21333:23 334:5336:9,15 337:25338:18 339:2,6340:2,15 341:8,10341:21 342:7,18343:4 344:13345:15 346:13349:4,14,20350:18 354:20362:16 368:3369:14 371:17,24373:17 378:16
380:4 381:1390:22 410:21429:25 430:11
objected 406:1objecting 310:1objection 296:15
308:19,22 318:25319:16 321:13324:16 336:1360:9,15 373:22378:22 390:23405:14,15 420:5420:12 429:21
objections 320:21objective 339:19observe 298:19obtain 291:21
292:7obtained 411:24obviously 305:18
372:17 383:22384:21,24
occasion 339:21373:24 403:18424:12
occasionally347:23
occasions 294:22296:23 313:23344:16 355:10361:24,24 365:8374:8 376:19385:16
occur 315:17occurred 310:9
315:15 322:11332:4 366:3373:19,23,24389:21 392:19,21393:3 421:2 422:6
occurring 300:23315:16 356:18384:7 393:5
october 336:8,12336:13 366:9407:1,17 426:23
offer 415:1
offered 308:7316:14 344:11357:3
office 285:11297:25 298:8300:24 301:24307:22,22,23308:4 363:18374:1 389:15403:12 412:20421:22 425:6427:7 429:10430:8
officer 296:9,13,18427:2
offices 284:17305:24 307:11,12307:12,13
official 283:18offshore 308:15,16
309:18,22 310:12310:18 311:25
oh 309:5okay 287:7 289:23
290:18 292:9293:2 294:16297:20 298:6,7300:8 302:15308:21 309:2310:7 311:1313:22 317:15321:15 323:15326:23 328:3330:6 331:16334:2,6,9 336:5336:20 337:7338:4,21 340:14341:7,20 342:21344:9 345:20346:23 347:23349:7 351:10354:11 355:18356:10 360:19361:3 365:6367:16,17 368:18373:11 376:5385:13,21 386:22
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 448
387:18 388:11391:25 394:14399:13 400:12405:24 408:21409:3,6,9,17411:4,18,23415:11 417:14418:10 420:18422:3 431:15
old 395:11,20396:11,13 397:14397:14,16,19
once 307:9 313:19345:5 362:8371:23 373:25374:1 390:17395:24 412:18422:4 427:8,10
oneonone 367:12367:20,21
ones 347:16,18online 352:5 373:5
375:24open 414:2 418:12opened 403:11
417:23,24 418:3418:10,20
operating 342:8421:19,25 422:3,9423:6,7,9,25424:2,13
operations 282:4301:15 316:23317:7,19,25
operative 335:23opportunity 306:9
427:1opposed 289:17
301:1 316:16353:18
opposite 339:20optionable 404:1orchestrating
356:22ordeal 403:6order 321:2 327:6
329:12 335:18
345:13 365:6393:8
ordinarily 296:11organizations
303:10originally 304:7,8
308:2 347:9 428:3428:4
originated 332:23originating 332:24
332:24orseck 284:9outside 393:15,17
393:23,23 429:4outstanding 334:1
389:10outweigh 302:19overdrafts 425:11overseeing 421:17overseen 303:23owe 388:14owed 323:6 333:14
333:16 347:4,5,19347:20 381:10
owned 328:17owner 304:25ownership 303:14
304:3,10,11
Pp 281:15,15 283:5
283:15 284:12,17400:17 407:1,17431:16
pace 428:24packaged 312:19packet 311:4
318:18,18packets 318:2,9,10page 286:5,11
320:23 386:2387:6 388:5 394:3398:8
pages 314:5paid 299:23,24
314:18 350:17351:10,19 357:23
363:20 390:8395:10 403:7406:13 407:18422:11,12,15,16423:1
paper 312:7,9papered 312:6
317:23 318:11348:6
papers 312:20paperwork 312:9
312:12,22,23313:2,7,9,13,24317:13,21 318:16351:1 371:11,20383:20 418:15,17
paragraph 378:20380:20 417:20418:5 419:17428:5
paren 326:5,5386:6 387:19,19392:7,8 394:17,20394:21 395:16,17
parens 386:7park 308:3part 290:18 294:1
299:11,17 319:23326:9 334:22,22356:5,8 362:12364:8 379:17380:9 381:18386:4 398:8 402:5408:9 409:5,10,13415:21
participated 357:8participating
369:13particular 288:24
311:25 334:22353:13 356:18357:14 370:17377:8 397:11402:4
particularly 356:24parties 350:24
371:19 390:6
402:3 404:13partner 340:19
369:13 413:23415:19
partners 282:22,24299:17 416:22
parts 356:8party 350:10,21pass 316:12passed 426:18passover 341:2,4
399:16,18,22400:17,24 401:2
patti 324:3,9paul 285:3pay 299:20 340:6
342:6 345:13346:22,24 351:11351:13 371:3,12371:13 372:8,13372:16,17,18374:6 377:20389:9 396:21398:20 401:6407:3,12 409:13423:3,13
payback 357:18paying 331:12
333:9 335:10369:2,4 379:16388:13 405:11,20423:11
payment 316:23328:20 348:5404:20
payments 313:4315:3 323:5 331:5333:15 349:1,9351:20 371:8379:9,12 380:1,15407:14,22,24,25
payout 312:20347:11
pcl59353 336:25pearson 285:4
332:6,7pending 321:19
326:6,11 391:3people 290:5,11
301:17,18,19,21302:10,17 305:19306:5,5,7 307:17307:17 315:14316:8,10 323:11332:17,21,23,24334:21 339:13,17339:24 345:10355:15 357:7,13357:14 362:23363:9,22,24 364:1364:9,17 365:21383:17 385:1,10385:14 386:18,19388:13 389:15,25398:17 402:2,13402:15 413:19414:7,12 420:3,6420:9 424:6 429:4430:16 431:1
peoples 287:8percent 349:3
370:24 423:17percentages 300:25perception 352:25perfect 363:12perfectly 343:2performance 405:1performed 334:15
334:15performing 325:17period 324:20
344:14,24 345:1366:15 379:23384:2,4 394:22395:2,4,7
permission 320:24perpetrating
299:15perpetuate 297:21person 290:10
295:25 297:2305:6 310:15322:25 363:17
personal 327:3
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 449
418:21 424:8personally 394:21perspective 428:19pertained 414:21
416:10 421:15pertaining 421:5pertinent 312:13perturbed 368:21peters 299:9phillip 419:13phone 293:23
301:24,25 305:5,5366:4 384:4,5401:25 406:7
phonetic 296:1415:22
phony 353:5354:24,25
photos 288:21phrased 319:12phrasing 332:21physically 416:20picou 413:22picture 288:19
430:17piece 307:2 403:13pinpoint 366:3pissed 325:12,13place 281:15 402:8
416:3placement 358:24
359:1places 307:12plaintiff 282:12
294:14 298:10,12299:5 314:13,18315:5 357:21
plaintiffs 281:5282:5 289:9 314:9325:21,23 336:24337:1 350:2,3,12358:6,8 366:19,24372:22 373:1375:8,14,23377:15,17 381:23381:25 385:23,24386:25 387:2
391:23 392:1393:9,10 394:7,8397:24 398:1400:4,5 406:17,19408:13,15
plan 325:18 335:2335:7,8
plans 290:9plat 381:9 407:10platcent001783
375:9platcent0017952
350:2platcent001805710
372:23platcent21098
391:24plate 358:14platinum 283:13
283:16 290:22300:4,6 303:9,14303:21 304:9306:19 307:8,14308:14 309:11310:11 311:22313:13,25 316:22329:20 330:7,13333:10 335:4,19337:23 338:16342:16 347:16,20348:2,23 355:6361:5,19 362:2363:9 373:12375:6 385:10,14386:19 389:11,15395:3 396:7,22398:9,14 399:8407:9
play 294:11,16295:15 298:10311:16 344:6
played 294:14295:22,25 296:1,2296:9 299:5,5
player 404:4players 370:9playing 295:8
344:5please 337:17
356:2 363:6 370:5387:24 400:14401:21 406:6407:12 412:20
pleased 430:21plus 334:24 362:19
371:12 387:23407:5
podhurst 284:9point 293:20
309:12 312:11320:9,11 333:1348:4 361:13362:24 371:23376:11 388:15389:24 393:21411:1 414:12416:5 419:1 424:4424:7
points 362:6385:15
poking 291:20polite 335:11
378:17 411:2pony 305:23,25ponzi 287:16,22
288:5,8 289:4292:18 297:22299:2,12,18,20301:6,17 302:3,5302:6,7 309:20310:4,10 311:24315:8 317:23320:12 323:10324:9 328:1331:20 341:12342:8 344:12347:5,6 348:6349:19 351:14353:24 354:13,17354:19 356:16360:6,14,17,20,25362:13,22 368:7368:19 373:14374:2 380:1
388:21 389:17390:4,19 391:8395:10 397:1402:8,21 405:12405:16,22,22410:6 416:10422:19,23 423:3423:12,13,20425:4 428:19
pool 311:13poor 322:18poors 391:13portion 349:12
369:21portions 380:8
409:8position 410:15positions 300:25positive 335:12
362:22 363:3365:11 369:1370:10 371:1391:17 396:8,10404:19 405:11406:3,12
possible 302:13328:14,14 329:13372:10 379:20399:5
possibly 314:13418:18 419:15431:2
pot 299:23potential 362:20
363:3 365:4,12potentially 401:3
403:8,9 413:19power 299:16
427:11 429:14,16powerful 428:23
430:14ppm 358:13,15,21
358:22 383:3394:18
pragmatic 323:13pre 324:9preapril 331:10
precaution 290:16precipitated
319:13preexplosion 324:8prepurchase 303:3
359:17presence 308:6presentation 306:1
306:2presented 303:17presenting 393:15
393:17pressed 365:9pressure 340:6
345:13 346:21361:13 362:18368:24
pressured 340:10prestige 299:16presume 326:4
344:2 379:10pretended 299:7pretext 348:4pretty 287:11
341:22,23 401:11404:5
preve 284:10300:12 301:3,11301:13,15 304:2305:12,20,20,22306:22 307:6308:11 309:14310:16 313:11,12313:17 315:11,25326:1 327:1,18,24329:11,15,23332:19 334:19,23335:1 339:12,14339:21 340:5343:21 344:25346:5,14,22347:24 353:11354:5 355:9356:23 357:4,7,12358:5,12,13,13360:24 363:7,16364:9 366:5,6,17
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 450
366:18 367:11,22367:23 370:9,14374:21,24 377:3377:16 379:24380:5,6 383:16385:6 386:3 388:6390:13 391:11392:6 393:13394:5,11,15 395:3395:12 396:3397:8,23 398:4401:23 405:10,21406:2,7,25 407:15410:14
previously 332:4378:15
primary 421:16principally 424:17prior 306:19
319:15,17,17334:15 336:12351:2 353:14366:10,11,13,14411:16 419:8
private 282:14358:24 390:1429:5
probably 366:3406:15 413:17421:10 423:17431:10
problem 320:2322:7,8 323:2,9323:10 330:25354:4,6 409:11
problematic321:25
problems 291:18301:20 302:6321:25 325:13329:9 331:3 335:6363:8 364:4 407:2
proceed 431:8proceedings 431:16
432:11process 297:19
300:14 325:3
402:3 414:5422:15
processed 425:10produced 400:3production 400:2productions 282:25profit 369:12profitable 324:4,5profusely 346:9program 406:4projecting 354:25promise 415:2promised 414:20promises 415:9promissory 318:11
318:19proper 312:10
316:19 370:20properly 343:19,25proposed 387:15
389:17 390:12prospective 311:21protect 338:11,16
338:19,23 339:23protecting 339:19
416:18protection 338:13protocol 321:2provide 327:25
329:21 395:21provided 291:3
318:2,17providing 343:15
350:22pseudo 430:5psychopath 408:25public 324:7 432:8publish 400:14
406:24pull 314:13pulling 410:14punitive 314:9
357:20,21purchase 315:2
395:20 396:11,13397:14
purchasing 397:19
purpose 303:13335:2 336:18350:21 362:17370:6 410:17424:3
purposes 333:24350:23 423:25
put 313:8 314:8316:15 318:5332:17 335:2,7,11342:4 345:5347:13 353:20359:12 380:24395:9 400:23410:15 420:12422:5 423:25428:25 431:4
putting 358:25359:18 390:25
Qqualify 322:19
418:16 430:9quarrel 294:23,24
333:20question 293:15,21
309:1 314:21,22314:25 315:10318:6 321:18,19326:6 328:8351:16 355:2367:13,15 368:1373:22 391:3399:9,19,19,20406:1
questioned 365:9questioning 320:22
321:3 399:14questions 293:25
294:2 306:9316:19,20 332:22337:6 350:6,19394:13 399:22411:5,15 429:3431:9
quicker 370:22425:10
quickly 328:14360:4 372:10
quiet 372:11quite 302:14 313:3
372:1 409:25quote 310:22 341:6
341:6 342:14365:9 367:11368:20 370:20378:11,12 380:16395:20,20
quotes 397:14
Rr 283:2 324:5,5
395:20,20,22,22396:11,11,13,13396:18,18 397:15397:15,16,16411:13,13 416:23416:23 417:23,23421:13,13 423:22423:22 425:23,23432:1
rain 413:12raining 413:11raised 428:16raising 300:13
393:23 395:19396:11
ramon 284:9ramped 334:3,4ramping 330:22ramsey 284:12rapid 428:24rapidly 346:22,24rapport 384:3rasco 284:9rating 334:24
335:13 362:19365:11 366:2369:1 370:11,21371:2 390:19,20391:12,14,17398:9,15 410:24
raton 416:3raving 408:24
razor 289:9razorback 281:4,17
283:1 292:12293:18 320:23336:7 359:8
rbr 282:14reach 420:25 421:2read 298:17 319:20
321:17,19 326:13337:5 338:24352:13,19 353:14353:14 356:2360:1 367:7377:21 381:14391:3 394:24400:10,11,13,13409:1,3,4
reader 353:17reading 337:10
351:24 382:3ready 310:9 369:23
382:24 394:18real 289:17,20,22
299:15 322:7,8323:2,9 327:22,23328:10 374:3,9416:16 424:9
realize 344:24really 303:19
314:12 323:16327:21 351:13358:16 361:7384:23 399:4425:7 429:5
reason 308:16,16327:9,23 348:9369:9,21 372:11374:9 416:12,16416:24
reasonably 315:16reasons 412:5
413:10 415:24416:8,9,11
recall 290:23,24291:15 294:18,20295:3,4,5,16,22296:5 298:7,22
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 451
303:11 304:23307:5,21 317:2,6317:9,10 318:10318:13,23 319:3319:12 320:7324:23 326:8333:18 335:20345:25 354:1355:6,9,9,15370:13 374:24379:19 381:19382:8,9 386:12,13389:14 391:6397:16,17,18398:11,13,25399:19,19,21,21400:22 415:17425:1,25 426:7427:22
receipt 322:2receipts 311:19received 319:18
320:5receiving 304:14
319:17 400:22recognition 343:23
391:8recognize 387:7,8recognized 342:15
428:22recollect 305:3recollection 292:15
294:25 297:18298:25 307:20320:18 323:22330:4 331:9,10335:23 340:25345:21 351:19356:13 363:14365:15 366:7377:7 385:3386:14 390:6392:17 396:6397:20 399:4,6,7399:11 418:8,14423:9 425:3 426:2
reconcile 376:5
377:4record 303:13
331:19 343:5355:21 383:9394:13 417:11420:12 431:5,12432:12
records 301:24,25331:7,22,23 333:1347:1 366:4
redacted 312:10redemptions
348:19refer 300:24
316:21 356:13379:5 386:2
reference 323:23348:25 356:6,11359:16 362:22,23378:15 379:11383:6,22 406:12408:2
referenced 375:19388:2 389:25398:16
references 363:3396:8,10 406:3
referred 296:5350:10 356:14379:19 410:8
referring 347:18358:22 367:18388:9,13 390:9409:15,21
refers 396:12419:19
reflected 354:17373:15
refresh 292:15335:22 392:17418:7 425:2
refusal 378:10379:2
regard 316:4323:13,18 329:14346:9 347:15361:20 362:4
404:19 422:17427:9
regarding 301:12306:3 364:16384:11 386:19389:16 393:14423:19
regardless 369:5regent 282:22
304:16 356:14357:5,6,13 368:12369:13,17 389:1
region 426:12,14426:16 429:4
regional 426:9regis 344:18,19,20registered 395:16
396:1 397:6regular 315:24
407:5regularly 347:22reid 283:2reinvestment
387:23 409:13reiterate 395:15reiterated 329:11rejection 379:3related 320:22
416:10relates 410:1relation 323:23relationship 300:9
300:16 306:14309:12 312:13322:19,20 351:7401:15,16 415:17415:20,24 416:4416:21 420:4
relationships430:16
relative 333:13350:8 364:13366:8 379:25397:7
release 380:16,21381:9 383:18
released 378:6,25
379:5,11relies 364:21remain 414:13remark 289:7remember 288:15
288:16 290:7291:24 296:20,24297:13,13 298:10305:21 306:6307:6 309:15318:14 320:14322:13,22 344:17347:3 353:13357:1,23,23365:14,24 371:18371:19 383:12389:4 390:11391:12 393:4,5,18394:1 403:11411:22 415:25418:1 419:13425:3 427:21
remembered296:23
rent 307:22 327:14327:19
renting 308:3repackaged 312:12repay 371:7repeat 293:13repeated 317:18
324:1repeatedly 316:1
362:2rephrase 314:25
319:8replace 335:19
427:9replaced 332:3replacing 390:16report 426:17
427:15reported 427:6
432:10reporter 299:7
321:17,20 391:4417:6
reporting 281:23346:9 384:9
represent 378:21378:21 412:19
representation363:12 412:17
representative363:10 383:4
representatives364:14
represented 331:6353:4
representing337:23
request 378:18requesting 383:23
420:24require 325:17requirements
377:24requiring 318:15respect 300:18
301:9 328:19382:14 419:23
responded 378:11384:21
response 288:24293:24 311:2312:15 392:15408:23
responses 399:20responsibility
421:14 422:14responsible 421:16responsive 324:17
420:11,15rest 312:20 316:3restate 314:21,24
320:20restaurant 365:25
399:3restored 400:7,9restructured 347:3result 307:3 372:18resulted 374:11resultoriented
323:13
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 452
retired 327:14,19retroactive 357:19return 316:24
356:25 412:24,25returned 317:13
412:11returns 300:1revealed 360:12revealing 360:1revelations 358:17
359:21,25 360:6360:14,22
reviewed 351:20ria 395:25,25 398:8
398:14rick 383:4ridiculous 322:5right 287:5 290:19
291:8,23 292:4294:12 307:14309:7 312:21318:4 333:19336:21 337:6340:17 349:22,24351:14 352:21354:4 356:5,7358:19 361:16367:14,20 369:24374:14 375:20378:10 379:1380:25 384:20386:11,15 388:16388:17 392:9393:3 395:1 402:3409:2,19 413:17416:6 426:19431:1
righthand 422:22ring 291:18 295:17
295:19 327:13340:18,20 342:11343:13 344:1
rings 317:17399:15 401:10
risk 349:18 361:1406:10,12 407:11
risking 407:19
risks 302:19ritz 344:17,19,20rli 284:24roberta 285:10,11rocket 319:20rodeo 404:7,8rofr 378:9roger 285:5 308:3role 294:11,16
295:22 311:16roles 339:8ron 413:21room 392:25
414:19rooms 310:25rosanne 284:12
297:4rosenfeldt 416:1,3
417:4rothchild 283:23
292:13,23 293:5293:12 295:1,18305:2 308:17420:5 429:25430:11
rothstein 281:7,12282:7,12 283:8286:5 287:3325:22 349:19352:4 353:22355:24 356:4370:2 379:8393:13 398:5400:16 405:10411:12 419:20428:8 431:8,13
rounding 377:9rule 421:4run 303:20 348:18
361:22 414:14running 287:15
422:19rush 431:2
Ss 283:8 285:7
325:22 356:4
407:6,6,22,22412:20 417:23
safe 429:15,15safety 413:15saint 344:18,19salvage 349:11,18sat 288:1,1saturday 386:4save 341:6,11,12,12
341:15saved 342:14saving 341:9
343:13,24 401:13saw 288:2 293:21
325:10 376:15418:22 423:25424:9 427:18
saying 305:7 311:5312:16 322:23347:15,25 348:1355:8,11 370:15375:1,3 382:13404:10 411:1,2
says 326:2 338:9352:3,12 356:3,7358:13 359:20367:25 368:14376:3 380:19381:2,6 382:20385:9 387:13,18389:9 392:5,14393:14 408:24419:18 428:6
scale 351:11,13scam 328:18,19scenario 315:17
317:6scenarios 313:15
317:9scenes 328:12schedule 355:1scheme 287:22
289:4 292:18297:22 315:8331:1,20 341:12342:8 344:12362:13 374:2
389:17 390:4,19391:8 395:10402:8,21 405:12405:16 416:11422:19,23 425:4,5
scherer 283:2,3286:6 287:2,19,21289:10 292:14293:1,8,13,14295:2,21 296:19297:12 299:6305:14 307:19308:18,21,24309:2,5,7,9,25310:6 319:2,6,9319:11 320:3,24321:5,10,15,17,21325:25 329:2332:21 337:3343:6,8 350:5353:7 355:21,23358:10 360:13,18363:1 364:22,25366:22 367:1368:4 369:9,16371:21,25 372:8372:25 373:3,20375:10,16 377:19378:19 379:22380:18 381:3,6,7382:2 384:10386:1 387:4 389:4390:23 391:1,5,19392:3 393:12394:10 398:3399:12 402:13405:9,17 406:21408:12,17 411:4415:8,13
scherers 336:16schlesinger 284:4,4
287:17schmookler 284:24scientist 319:20scott 281:7,12
282:7,12 283:8284:20,24 286:5
305:7,8 324:5383:3 387:22393:1 400:16
screaming 384:5screen 374:9
376:15scrutiny 315:15
316:4 323:1,7season 344:1,4,7,10sec 345:21,23 346:1
346:2,2,9,25second 344:20
356:1,5,9 387:5419:17 428:5430:6
secret 361:11 367:4secretary 293:16secure 362:25
370:10secured 348:10
385:15securing 362:21security 290:18
348:11see 298:11,23
301:25 309:25312:24 317:10318:16 335:17,22337:20 338:5,8339:20,25 346:3352:1,9,11 354:24356:15 359:22360:23 365:6374:3,6 376:1378:3,12 380:7,22381:6,12 382:6,11382:18 386:4,8387:19,21 388:6,7389:8,12 392:5,22398:7,10 405:6422:17 428:9430:16
seeing 353:13371:19 374:10
seen 291:4 328:2337:8 361:25383:11,12
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 453
selection 312:5,7self 430:24sell 345:1selling 429:1,11seltzer 319:14,18semblance 374:10send 307:7 311:4,4
312:5,9 313:17,20313:24 337:17347:13,15,16,24347:25,25 348:1,1376:24 379:3407:6,6,14 425:7
sending 347:11,13347:23 355:11374:11
senior 426:14427:2
sense 336:10sent 307:23 313:9
314:1,2 375:1,4392:9 400:20
sentence 409:11419:18 428:5430:6
senterfitt 283:18separate 320:25
365:8 385:16418:4,12
separately 363:25separation 303:20
361:22september 320:11serblowsky 283:13series 346:3 370:6
374:24 422:17serious 361:13serve 403:10
409:25 410:17served 320:25servers 422:15serves 363:14session 281:11set 291:2 346:8
392:14,20 415:25setting 300:16,19
399:1
settled 317:23settlement 298:12
312:20 315:3318:2 344:12379:2
settlements 306:16310:10 311:24329:22 330:15347:6 348:6 349:1
settling 315:21seven 316:24 317:4sham 383:25shareholders
384:10sheet 375:4shes 293:24,25
294:1 297:6 322:5322:5,7,12,15,16322:25
shinanigans 410:13ship 312:14shocked 367:11,17
368:11,13,14369:11,18,19,22369:22
short 317:19355:20 391:18394:22 395:4,7405:8
shortly 407:13shots 362:4shouldnt 320:2show 289:6,12,23
291:19 296:8,10297:5 305:23,25325:19 331:7,17333:25 336:22349:24 353:9354:13 355:24358:4 366:16372:20 375:5377:12 381:20385:21 386:20,23389:20 391:21393:6 394:2397:22 398:6399:23 406:15
408:1,5 425:9426:4 430:9
showed 354:1showing 354:7,7shows 290:21 294:5
294:8,9,12,13295:23 296:11351:25 354:9371:22
shut 331:9side 288:18 304:15
304:16 316:5322:23 356:17357:5 358:16359:21 388:25389:1,6 407:23421:20 422:18,23
sides 339:24 401:9siegal 285:8sign 298:12 374:2
383:20signed 292:12,22
293:11,18 298:18337:19 352:5373:4 375:23,24383:4
significant 366:11391:16 422:20
significantly425:13
silversea 299:8,20simony 290:11,21
304:1,13 306:10306:10,11,15,22306:23 307:5,18308:7 309:13326:19 327:2,5,13327:25 328:16,18336:23 337:10,18338:6,15 342:12343:13,19,21344:11,25 345:18345:22 346:5,14347:15 348:14354:12,16 355:6356:21 361:23362:3 363:14,17
364:5,7,8,9,15365:3,7 367:23369:11,18 370:14372:21 374:16376:24 377:14383:17 384:14385:17 389:16391:21 392:5,11393:14 395:13397:5,9 398:18399:10,16,24400:15 401:18,23401:24 402:2,9,10405:11,20 406:3407:18,24 410:3
simonys 327:2328:3 340:19
simply 311:19323:18 380:13403:16
singerman 283:10single 371:5sink 403:20sir 287:6 308:12
317:1 327:16330:20 343:11370:3 375:21389:19 394:25401:20 405:4408:4 411:14412:2,11 414:1415:3,5,7,10417:21 418:9,13419:5,7,10 420:1
sister 322:13,14sisterinlaw 322:13
322:14,24sit 296:12 297:12
302:15 307:20387:19 403:16
sitting 314:14344:17,21 386:6403:12,12 416:15
situation 291:22six 291:7,9size 347:19skipping 316:6
slash 324:5sleep 414:16slota 372:21sloter 377:1slow 302:6small 419:16sochet 332:13,14
336:11,13 372:14sociopath 408:24solicited 331:24solid 398:19solve 407:2somebody 426:5someplace 292:8sorry 292:1 321:10
333:18 366:13381:22 392:6399:24 420:13
sort 296:10 312:21313:4 359:14
sound 291:8sounds 341:11,13
418:9sources 331:23
333:2 363:4,5387:20,21
south 308:4southeast 281:24
426:12,14southern 282:10space 308:8spare 307:22speak 293:4 294:1
295:12 300:3301:14 302:3,5,6302:7 318:23322:1 323:10360:6,14,17,25397:10 398:18405:22 410:6
speaker 343:7405:16,19
speaking 303:17306:21,22 310:16322:14 355:16363:12,13 365:15389:22 393:25
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 454
410:25 415:12special 296:4specific 290:24
294:20,25 296:14296:16 298:13334:11 364:13386:14 391:13399:4,6,22 409:25412:18
specifically 294:12296:18 390:9391:6 397:18417:3 420:24421:5
specifics 294:3412:16
spectrum 339:21speed 380:14spend 289:1 331:13
372:3 376:7 378:2spinosa 284:5
292:12 293:11295:16 296:5298:23 419:1,24420:25 421:1,9424:18 426:15,19427:10,16 428:21429:6,11
spinosas 426:7427:2
split 344:11spoke 301:11
305:13 308:7365:13,21 397:8397:10 406:7411:21
spoken 355:25364:1 365:19415:14
spring 344:3st 285:3stage 295:11
347:20 368:19,24372:8
stamp 398:6399:24
standard 391:13
standing 288:17,20standpoint 422:1
428:12standstill 401:5start 294:13 300:7
336:7 364:14,22388:7 391:1404:13 408:7411:6,19 415:15417:15
started 298:3 330:6330:22 347:11349:9 351:14403:22 404:1
starts 358:11381:21 392:4394:11 408:6,13
state 307:13 339:18367:2 409:10414:3 432:4,9
statement 324:3343:18 399:15401:13 413:1416:22 420:2428:13 429:20430:8
statements 353:25355:10 376:10401:10
states 282:10 412:6412:10,24
stay 371:15 418:18421:6,15,24424:20 425:16,18
stays 421:16stearns 284:2stenographic
432:12stenographically
432:10step 407:13 413:16stepbystep 301:21stepped 366:5steps 298:17
323:19stettin 282:14,16
282:18,20,22,23
282:25 283:11411:13 417:12
steve 415:19,22stick 404:11sticking 310:12
357:14stipulate 343:8stipulation 343:7
411:24stone 285:5 308:3,5stop 335:10 431:1stopped 331:7,12
331:18 379:16380:2
stopping 379:12store 323:24story 311:9 413:6,9strangled 331:4strategies 405:22strategy 335:5
345:1 363:8 364:3365:22 369:5370:11 391:15401:8 404:18,20405:19
stream 315:3streams 348:5street 281:15
365:17 427:25428:4
strike 321:4 324:16336:15 340:2343:4,6 345:15364:20 420:11,14
structure 300:15300:20 309:10372:16
structured 282:16347:6
stu 413:23stuff 306:3 319:25
410:13 422:14,16425:11
suarez 284:22sub 416:16subject 323:21
337:15 358:13
382:4 391:22407:1
subprimarily421:18
subsequent 304:9330:5 365:13389:25
subsequently 308:5346:18
subtext 299:6suing 308:25 403:9
403:9sum 312:21 314:18summer 298:4,4sunday 382:10
392:4,6 408:18,23support 377:25
404:14,14 428:15supported 287:8supports 331:19suppose 302:13supposed 355:12
364:10,12 365:10372:17 373:12375:2 376:20
supposedly 357:20sure 289:18 290:16
291:1 292:2293:15 295:6297:14 299:22301:18,19,20302:7,17 307:6311:8 314:11316:20 317:22321:7,12 323:16324:22 329:12335:3 345:19347:1 353:7355:13 361:4363:20 368:25369:25 376:12377:23 383:9,22384:24 387:10396:9 400:15402:19 404:17,24410:16 411:8422:12,15,16
423:1,2 429:7430:12
surprise 293:7surrounding 295:7survival 379:6survive 379:7susan 283:15
308:21 338:2susans 338:2suspect 353:17
416:15 421:1suspected 318:22suspicious 407:9sustain 324:13
347:10swim 403:20szafranski 331:24
332:11,12,14,23336:11,13 349:25350:14,16 351:2352:4 372:20373:4 374:1,8,22375:6,17 376:13
szafranskis 350:8350:20
szfranski 284:7
Tt 400:21,21 411:16
415:17,18,19419:19 420:4421:15,18 422:6,9423:7,9 424:12,13424:18,22 425:24426:12,14 428:6428:17,20,22429:18,23 430:8432:1,1
table 302:20 405:6take 290:14,21
297:5 301:20309:18 310:21319:20,25 320:24323:19 326:16331:15 348:11358:19 359:24380:1 385:17
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 455
391:12 402:17406:23 408:21417:20
taken 281:14,17,21355:20 363:18391:18 402:1405:8
takes 316:19talk 294:14 297:24
302:10 304:18305:15 322:10323:3 334:10350:7 351:23354:9 356:9 368:9382:16 396:5397:1 398:8,14409:5,7 415:16
talked 288:13289:11 302:12305:15 320:14,16334:12 354:9356:8 376:6380:21 406:11408:20 414:22
talking 294:12311:24 318:8322:4,25 330:18333:6 344:22345:11,18 366:9369:10 370:9379:1 380:6 388:7388:22,23 393:22397:16,17,18398:17 404:1410:23 413:18414:2,8
tally 337:15tampa 325:6tanen 283:15tax 308:16 311:21td 282:20 283:24
289:9 291:2,15,18291:21 292:8,10294:9,17 295:23348:10 373:5
team 294:1ted 287:25 288:4,7
288:16,20,21289:2 317:25318:14 320:14,19321:23 322:1,2,18322:22 323:12,22324:24 325:7,8,12413:23
teeth 378:3telephone 293:10
346:4 406:9tell 288:2 289:19
293:9 295:3 299:4304:3,7 307:10312:6 313:20315:13,25 316:11316:12 329:3332:25 340:1346:1 348:14349:7 355:3,18357:13 363:5364:5 368:20372:4 376:14378:22 383:14393:20,21 398:13399:25 400:10403:4 406:6407:21 410:2412:18,20 413:6,9423:5
telling 290:13307:7 313:18324:24 334:23342:25 344:8,25345:3,4 349:22353:11 355:13,16360:3 362:5383:21,25 384:17384:19 406:9410:18,22 416:14426:5
tended 288:22term 319:7 329:3
360:17,25 379:6terms 297:21 299:2
300:15 302:13312:20,21 313:3314:16 356:25
357:1 358:17359:21,24 360:6360:21,21 370:11371:6 378:8403:14
terri 281:23 432:8432:18
terrible 343:9testified 292:20
294:21 303:8320:4 328:16340:10,12 341:2342:12 344:1,8,10345:18 346:20379:8
testify 379:16testifying 342:22testimony 289:16
293:3 303:11316:7 318:20319:10,12 320:7327:12,17 328:4336:16 340:13,16345:16 364:20365:2 399:15408:2 414:21415:2 424:16
thank 321:15328:25 338:11364:24 366:23370:4 399:13408:1 417:19
thanks 396:3 411:4thats 287:10
289:20,23 293:3297:4 298:18,22299:25 300:2306:1 307:11323:20 325:16330:12,24 332:11332:20 336:17337:14,16 338:4341:13,15 343:18347:13 350:19,23353:4 356:1,6,13364:20 365:7367:25 371:3
376:5,23 377:9379:20,21 383:11385:2,21 388:11393:17 395:18396:17 397:1,3,19400:9 402:4405:22 408:1,20409:2,19 412:8414:17,19,25416:7 420:17422:19 424:19430:1,23 431:14
theres 296:4 310:5314:12 316:18326:22 327:22333:4 337:11338:5 352:7,19356:7 360:5,10361:1 373:21387:6,17 392:24409:11 414:7422:20 423:8429:13,13,14
theresa 283:20theyll 311:4 360:20
375:10theyre 301:19
302:18,19 315:20358:22 360:2372:12,15
theyve 363:8 364:3thieves 387:24,25thing 287:15
302:18 305:7312:21 313:5326:22 328:9345:9 346:21353:16 359:20362:6 364:6377:21 383:9398:16 402:3403:22,24 404:16411:19 413:17425:16 431:6
things 287:12297:21 298:13303:4 306:17
311:20 315:16324:11,14 332:4335:9 342:25357:17 391:11400:18 401:7,8404:12 411:16422:12 424:24425:10 428:19430:1
think 288:19289:11,20 291:5291:11 292:11295:25,25 296:25297:3 302:9305:22 314:11315:19,22 319:9320:4 321:2,5329:19 331:6,9332:16 336:11337:14,19 339:3,9339:10,20,23341:9 343:3344:16 347:9348:9 351:8358:16 359:16,20367:5,10,18 368:2368:5 370:18,23376:2 389:2,5390:24 395:6,17396:1,12 398:11399:9,17,18402:20 405:5408:18,20 411:24414:21 427:25
thinking 357:10376:18 416:15
third 281:24350:10,21
thought 303:9321:8,13 343:2348:10 365:22369:4,5 379:8
thoughts 387:24thousands 302:1
315:21 352:12,14353:3,14,23
threat 346:25
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 456
threaten 319:24335:12
threatened 319:4,7345:21
threatening 318:21346:2,7,8
three 294:22295:24 304:4,14317:4 326:3,10,24327:9,15 328:4,5328:19 329:4,15337:11 339:13341:12 353:3361:18 393:15,24407:12 414:24419:24 420:2,6,9
throckmorton283:5
throws 384:22thumbs 365:11thursday 407:1,17tied 430:13tightly 430:13time 281:15 293:20
294:14 296:16297:10,15 301:16309:12 311:3315:12,12,19317:19 321:23324:3,6,20 325:10326:16 331:13333:1,18 334:19338:17 342:5343:15 344:14,24345:2,7 352:5354:19 355:18357:25 361:10362:6,6,14 365:5365:17 366:3,15370:25 374:1,1,10376:19 379:23383:14 384:1,4385:4,13,15389:18,24 391:20393:22 394:23395:2,4,7,13396:6 397:7,15
398:20,22 401:14404:5,6,7,9 411:1411:9 413:16,17414:10,19 415:12415:14,16 416:5416:19 418:3,10419:1 423:1 424:7431:2
timeframe 330:18333:6 351:11366:9
times 291:3 294:18295:17,24 307:7317:6,8 354:12370:16 374:23376:13 384:2
timing 389:2,4392:9 411:8
title 426:7 427:20titled 418:7today 297:12
307:20 358:15383:12 388:8406:16 407:12414:18
told 290:4 292:22292:25 293:7,10293:20 298:11304:1,1,2,8305:18,19 307:11309:13 316:3322:18 324:10329:14,23 332:19333:19 338:1341:3 343:21345:5,22 346:1348:14 349:12361:23 362:3363:7,11,25 364:2365:8,20 372:2373:11 383:2384:13,15 385:16390:13 397:8,9404:16,18 412:15412:16,19 426:11
tolimar 415:22,25416:1,2,24 426:16
426:18,20,22427:4,8,9,10
tomorrow 392:9393:15 431:6
ton 347:14top 316:24 337:4
337:11 372:13382:3,19 387:17392:13 393:4396:2 425:1,25427:22
topic 321:9,14torn 339:9totally 387:22totals 376:17touched 382:21touching 395:19touting 429:16toyota 325:4track 318:5 339:16
339:24 368:22377:25
tracy 418:24traffic 302:14
327:24transaction 309:17
311:25 326:6,11356:14,24 357:17
transactions309:15 359:13361:21 389:3
transcript 412:1432:11
transfer 420:23426:3
transferring425:20
transpired 331:14traurig 283:23traveling 395:15treasury 425:6,22
426:1treat 361:8treated 402:5treaty 412:6tremendous 429:2tremendously
414:8trench 283:15,15
308:20,23 309:1,3309:6,23 310:3328:7,21,23,25333:23 334:5336:1,9,15 337:25338:3,4,18 339:2339:6 340:2,15341:8,10,21 342:7342:18 343:4344:13 345:15346:13 349:4,14349:20 350:18354:20 362:16364:19,24 366:21366:23 368:3369:14 371:17,24372:24 373:17378:16 379:13381:4 390:22,24408:11 410:21
trial 292:21 293:3tried 327:14trip 295:10 309:21
310:23 404:10triple 367:2tripp 284:20trips 309:19 401:25tropin 283:5trouble 291:14
341:5 412:15,17true 384:16 423:17
428:13,14 432:11truly 402:2trust 282:15 315:4
353:5 354:14373:15 375:18,25395:22 396:18,25397:2 402:2 418:7418:11,12,20419:2,9,14 421:18421:21,24 422:8422:18,20,24,25424:10,20
trusted 293:23301:18
trustee 283:11,21284:15,22 411:13414:20,23 415:1417:12
trustees 400:1417:8
truthful 413:5,9truthfulness
411:22try 322:16 328:5
341:5 358:1383:17,18 391:11392:23 393:7
trying 289:15292:11 327:19328:10,17,19338:10,15,19,23338:24 339:18,22340:4 341:11,14345:2,3 352:13357:12 360:24372:9 374:6 376:2376:3,11 383:19383:21 384:24385:19 392:14395:2,3,9 404:3407:12
tucker 284:11tuesday 281:14
383:3turn 380:13 395:21
413:3turned 413:1,7
430:2two 291:20 296:23
302:1 310:25313:15 316:23317:11,16,20,23318:3,8,10,11339:9 342:23,24345:19 347:23348:2 354:2,3356:7 407:6 409:7
tying 407:2type 301:6 302:20
315:18 316:10402:12 409:11
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 457
414:11 420:9422:16 424:24425:11,16
types 419:15424:10
Uu 285:7 412:20uhhuh 304:22ultimately 303:22
304:9 327:5 347:7417:24 418:2424:11
unannounced291:16
unavailable 421:20unaware 328:22,24uncertain 370:16
403:14uncle 297:13,16,17
413:24 421:25uncontrollable
346:7underlined 379:11undermine 315:7underneath 337:19understand 293:19
305:4 306:15308:13 314:16317:22 319:21321:6 323:12327:22 336:20369:7 372:8378:20 395:14401:1 422:1
understanding303:6 306:21309:10 310:15311:22 312:3,4,11312:22 330:21355:2 401:14405:25 407:20426:25 427:6
understands409:12
understood 361:18424:16
unfortunately373:25
united 281:23282:10 412:6,10412:24
unknown 343:7405:16,19
unlimited 418:25unquote 310:22
365:10 368:20370:20 380:16
unreadable 397:25398:4
unsecured 283:19update 398:5upset 291:16
368:22urgent 298:16use 299:19 318:22
319:7 329:6,18342:6 360:21,25371:2 388:12419:20 424:14428:8,17 430:8,9430:15,20
uses 360:25usually 302:16
310:17 315:5utilize 380:16uwant 285:5
Vvacation 295:16
421:21validity 391:7van 283:20varied 338:22varies 353:12various 295:9
306:5 322:2335:15 344:22354:12 385:15424:8,10
vast 313:7velocity 422:22verification 349:25
350:17,22 351:18
375:18,19verifications
351:22 355:8,17375:7
verified 352:5373:5 374:23375:22,24
verifier 350:11,21verify 292:11
387:24verifying 350:11,24version 378:17vicepresident
426:9view 429:19,22villegas 313:7,19
418:19violates 321:2visit 392:12visits 291:9vividly 403:11vliet 283:20voluntarily 412:11
412:12,23von 288:1,1,4,7
331:25 333:4334:21 359:3363:24 364:1365:14 372:14382:23 383:6,7385:4,8 387:13,14388:2 389:16390:3,7,10,12,14391:8,15 398:24399:1,7 404:23
vs 281:6 282:6,12282:14,16,18,20282:22,23,25
vulgar 368:23
Ww 281:7,12 282:7
286:5wait 309:25 311:3
312:18waiting 384:8
386:7 392:24,24
walk 365:18 430:14walker 284:19wall 361:20want 292:2 300:3,3
302:15,23 318:6333:24 336:2,8340:3,12,17342:11 345:17346:17 351:22352:25 369:8376:22 378:22382:22 383:9389:21 394:2,12394:19,23 403:25409:3 411:19412:21 413:11417:15 419:22420:19 431:4
wanted 295:10,11296:17 298:15308:6 318:16321:7,12 323:18328:13 345:5369:3 379:4391:11 413:5,8418:3
wanting 398:14416:24
wants 323:16,17345:4 392:7 398:8
warring 359:14washing 424:1wasnt 288:3 314:17
314:18 324:11359:11 379:17388:21 404:7
watch 285:5watching 288:18,20water 334:25way 290:2 295:19
296:4 299:18303:16 305:10313:14 314:12318:13 321:23323:17 328:5,14333:3 335:11339:7,25 341:15
342:8 347:10348:3 352:22,24353:4,20,21 354:6354:7,7 355:4360:16 372:16384:11 387:21392:8 394:22395:8,9 400:19,19402:5,18 410:7,25411:2 415:12424:15 427:9
ways 344:22 414:6weakness 410:1,1weaver 284:2website 327:14wed 312:9,18
318:19 347:23385:18
wednesday 400:16week 347:8 387:14
388:11 406:15409:13
weekly 423:3weintraub 418:24welcome 321:16
329:1 393:16416:21
wellbeing 413:15wendy 292:20
293:9went 290:7 291:15
298:23 299:23310:15,18,24312:22 313:25314:9 346:1 349:7379:4 402:6403:21 410:16412:4,5 416:23420:25 421:1423:23,24
west 325:5weston 290:8
295:23 296:1,5428:1,2,3,4
weve 302:18 305:15320:25 355:25409:21
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 458
whats 308:18,21310:2 319:6366:21 381:3385:2 390:23408:8
whatsoever 415:2whichever 296:17
310:11white 297:5,6 298:1
298:8,19 429:10whitehaven 306:24
307:5,7,8,13,17307:18,23 308:10340:20 372:21400:15
whitehavens307:22
whos 308:18 310:1william 283:2wind 353:8window 348:7wire 420:23 425:19wired 317:5wires 350:11,12
425:7,10,15 426:2wish 424:5witness 281:21
292:24 293:6,13295:19 296:16305:3 309:24319:1,17 360:10360:16 362:17369:15 371:18373:18 378:17379:14 380:5391:25 431:14
witnessed 401:23woman 296:24wondered 306:8wont 343:9 400:17word 313:12 323:9words 328:1 329:6
329:18,19 342:13370:20 390:25404:3,5 424:1
work 300:24321:23 350:16
392:8 398:10409:12 419:14421:17 424:17,22
worked 290:11312:3 385:19418:22
working 296:2343:22 355:22
works 297:3world 374:18worried 360:7worry 323:3 429:12worse 341:4worth 348:21wouldnt 294:24
322:19 324:12wright 281:23
432:8,18write 320:6 349:2
386:10writes 367:11
382:9writing 303:3
339:17 374:9,25377:22 378:8,9
written 318:22319:23 320:5
wrong 310:2 313:2313:9,9,10 381:3407:14 413:13
wrote 374:25376:13,18 377:23
Xx 286:1 375:3
Yyeah 291:11,19
294:13 297:9299:6 302:6 306:2314:22 317:5318:10 348:7368:14 371:8376:2 389:2409:16
year 318:12 349:15years 413:23
414:11
yesterday 303:8318:20 319:13,19320:4,21 321:5322:18 331:6340:23 360:19401:18 411:20413:5,9 416:9424:9
yielded 299:13yielding 299:14york 290:11 292:10
305:24 308:4,6311:15 312:1,14312:16 330:22333:10 344:2379:10 383:3
youd 291:19306:11 371:13373:18 425:12
youll 301:25339:20 356:15360:23 380:7398:7 410:19422:17
youre 287:5 293:19294:12 311:24321:16 325:14329:1 342:17,19342:25 343:3349:22 360:16370:16,18 383:24394:16 395:15410:18 414:13,14414:15
youve 305:4 383:11392:25 413:18419:23
Zzeros 352:19 353:3zurich 284:25
00 282:1300 281:15 358:2
431:10000 307:23 316:23
333:19 337:17
352:8,9,9,19,20353:15,15,20,20373:15 374:14,19375:25 376:3,16
000117 356:406 407:1,1707 281:3 282:208 289:13 326:13
326:14 329:10330:18
09 298:4,5 307:21330:19 333:17334:16 335:25336:23 337:13339:5 344:2,10350:1 355:5 375:7377:14 381:21382:4 386:4,24389:5 394:6,12395:2 397:22398:5 399:17,18408:12
09062943 281:3282:2
0923 422:7,8
11 317:16,20 326:14
358:7 366:20377:15 381:24387:1 393:9406:18 408:14
10 374:23 383:1387:15,22 430:25
100 320:23 333:19347:4,4 352:9,20359:4 370:24
1003767 282:141003802rbr 282:161030 407:3103032 332:18
423:21107 352:16108 334:111 283:11 326:5,11
356:6,11 362:8431:10
1102288rbr 282:181102368rbr 282:201102473rbr 282:221102604rbr 282:231102605rbr 282:251123100161400
366:201123100161648
358:7117 325:22118 325:2211cv61688jic
282:1312 281:15 325:19
326:13,131218 281:2413 281:14 331:10
331:11,14,15348:7
13th 379:9,16380:2 432:14
14 417:20 419:17428:5
15 347:9 371:12387:15 407:1,13407:17
150 329:25 330:616 377:14163961 381:24163968 408:14165897 387:116andahalf 371:14178 352:9,17
353:20 373:6,15374:13,14,19376:16
17th 281:2 282:1289:13 427:25428:4
18 334:4 341:19372:6 381:20
180 308:251800 327:14,19
328:4,171848 289:91849 289:918th 381:20
(954) 525- 2221United Reporting, Inc.
Page 459
19 408:12,23190 342:4192479 406:1819th 382:4
22 281:11 317:14,21
320:23 353:24355:1,1 376:7387:1
20 349:3 380:10,13380:24 381:5383:1 411:7
2004 411:20,252008 325:202009 331:10,11
341:2 342:13348:8 358:5366:22 372:25375:13 391:22400:16 407:1,17426:23
2011 281:14 432:1420th 378:5 380:11
381:922 393:14 400:17
418:6,10,12,15419:2,9 422:20
22nd 393:623 352:4 397:22
398:524 336:23 337:13
339:5 394:5,1225 307:23 350:1
382:24,25 385:9396:3
26 418:5,626th 392:427 386:23 391:22
400:1727th 389:19 392:13
392:18,20 393:1287 286:62nd 385:22 386:4
33 290:23 300:6
303:9,15 307:15
308:14 309:11313:25 329:20330:3,11 333:10335:4,19 337:23342:16 347:17,21355:6 361:19362:2 363:9380:20 389:11394:20 396:22407:1,17
30 281:15 372:25375:12 387:14
300 316:2430th 385:22325 286:1233316 281:24337 286:1335 337:17350 286:13358 286:14366 286:14372 286:15375 286:15377 286:16381 286:16385 286:17387 286:17392 286:18393 286:18394 286:19398 286:193m 326:43s 338:17
44 399:17,18 431:1640 387:23,24,25400 286:20406 286:20408 286:21411 286:745 289:946 286:12 325:21
325:23 356:347 286:13 336:24
337:148 286:13 350:2,3
49 286:14 358:6,84th 341:3
55 281:15 353:24
355:1,1 358:2376:7 380:20,20380:21 381:8,8,10387:15 431:1
50 286:14 329:25330:2,6,10 359:4366:19,24 387:22
500 347:16,25,25352:8,8,19
501 352:15 353:1551 286:15 372:22
373:15104 373:5,852 286:15 375:8,145252221 281:2553 286:16 377:15
377:1754 286:16 381:23
381:2555 286:17 385:23
385:24 431:1656 286:17 386:25
387:257 286:18 391:23
392:158 286:18 393:9,1059 286:19 394:7,8590 352:8 377:4593 352:15 353:15598 375:25 376:4599359994 394:7
66 378:21,2460 286:19 359:4
397:24 398:1600 352:961 286:20 400:4,562 286:20 406:17
406:1963 286:21 408:13
408:1564 417:8,11
77 378:20,21,25,25
400:17700 316:23
88 358:5 366:22
378:20,21,25399:23 400:16
800 327:2382 375:10847 373:68th 399:18
9900 353:20933 352:9,16954 281:2597 385:2398 341:1899 281:15 423:17