3lb seed to weeeeed

8/22/2019 3LB Seed to Weeeeed

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3LB From seed to weed

Growing LUI w/ the 3LB - From seed to weed!

Twas 10 days before Xmas, and there at the nest . . .Not a creature was stirring, not one single pest . . .The fluoros were hung over the seed beds with care . . .In hopes that sweet seedlings soon would be there . . .

Back in October the birdies had cried . . .Where can we find LUIs weve looked and weve tried . . .Then ~RC~ himself answered one fateful day . . .Ill get those seeds for you through Heavens Stairway . . .

Then Poppy and ~RC~ packed those lil seeds with care . . .And within a fortnight the 3LBs order was there . . .A loud shout of hooray was heard through the nest . . .Then birdies were plotting which start date was best . . .

Tonight those little seeds are nestled in right . . .Packed tightly in moist earth theyll sleep through the night . . .But soon they will grow up to be big and strong . . .And their sweet buds will be smoked in the 3LBs bong . . .So the story continues of those LUI seeds . . .

And the three little birds, and their growing deeds . . .

when it comes to organic soil alternatives, there should be plenty ofoptions. generally we look for something called "organic" and then startreading the labels to see what s actually in the soil. we avoid soils withchemical fertilizers and chemical wetting agents but don t have any specialpreferences beyond that. when we see a decent soil on sale we tend to buy 10bags and ask questions later. for that very reason there are several bags ofFoxFarm OceanForest here at the nest as well as a couple more bags of thatGardenSafe soil. there s a bunch of bagged mushroom compost. a few bags ofcomposted humus and manure. a full bale and a half bale of plain peat. andalso a bag of earthworm castings still hanging around from before we decidedto raise our own worms. about peat pellets. we ve tried those ourselves in

the past and were generally disappointed with the results. they seemconvenient and look simple to use but they always caused us more trouble thanthey were worth.

it all begins with a seed. one of the most important factors in growing goodcannabis is the genetics you start with. when choosing seed. a new growershould consider their gardening skills and physical abilities and how thatmight effect their strain choice. they should also consider the specifics ofthat particular strain and think of how it will meet their personal needs.good strain information can be found using the search feature here at CW tolook at what folks have said a particular plant. the overgrow strainbase andheatherbud

s wonderful cannagenetics.com site can also provide informationprovided by real life growers on specific strains. for this thread the three

little birds will be growing Legend

s Ultimate Indica. often known as LUI.the seeds were produced by Breeder Steve of Spice of Life Seeds andpurchased through ~RC~ and the friendly folks at Heaven

s Stairway. btw - wedo want to offer accolades to Spice of Life Seeds for choosing to sell theirbreeding efforts in 15 seed packs! we greatly appreciate the breeders whofollow this practice! We actually prefer to start with at least 30 seeds whentrying a new strain, so the 15 count packs are a great convenience. Kudos!

LUI was chosen for a number of reasons. primarily for it s medicinal use atthe nest. it s just one strain we ve tried in our search for the ultimate


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herb to alleviate pain and insomnia. LUI has a reputation as being good forpain relief so it was worth a try at the nest. LUI is billed as 100% Indicaand that usually indicates a heavier more sedative or "body stone". manyrecreational users may find this effect boring and prefer the more soaringhigh of a sativa or sativa dominant hybrid. however a heavy effect is justwhat tthe doctor ordered for medicine at the bird

s nest. Indica

s aregenerally easy to grow indoors compared to sativas. overall, they tend tostretch less and feature quicker finishing times. all of which makes for aneasier grow for some medical users with physical disabilities. For all ofthose reasons the LUI is a good prospect for our garden. and as an additionabenefit. lots of folks at CW have experience growing it our already. so italso happens to make a great example of what the 3LB can do in our organicgarden. in the end it all starts with a single seed. an investement in goodgenetics is almost always handsomely rewarded!

001 Seed Germination Instructions

expectant-seedbed.

once you have the genetics then it comes time to plant them. at least formost folks that is. we ve heard of some folks with seed collections numberingin the hundreds of strains. and while we have nothing against collectors. wejust hope that thier seed collection will get used to grow some great herbs.a lil seed embryo sitting on a shelf in a jar or pack that never gets grown

is a sad waste in our opinion. our philosophy is and always has been to sharethe seed and then grow great weed! anyway. as you can see from the attachedpicture. fifteen standard 4 1/2" square pots sit waiting for the seeds theywill nourish. (week old clones are in background) some folks germ in papertowels or use other similar methods. we prefer to put our seeds directly intothese planters to eliminate potential stress from handling. so the plantersyou see will get theirs seeds after just a lil bit of prep work.

002 expectant-seedbed

we get lots of questions about our soil preferences so we d like to take amoment to describe the soil we ll be growing the LUI seedlings in. we callthis our Wally-World soil mix since all of the ingredients can be purchased

at a Wal-Mart. as many folks are aware we re-mix and reuse our soils prettymuch endlessly. but seedlings and cuttings are the one spot in our gardenwhere we use a store bought soil mix. this is the exact soil mix we use thesedays for all of our cuttings and seedlings and have had great success usingit. even with hard to clone strains like Herijuana we ve experienced 90% +success rates in rooting cuttings! The base is Schultz GardenSafe pottingsoil which is 100% organic and even OMRI listed. OMRI is the OrganicMaterials Review Institute and which certifies products manufacturers pay tohave tested and certified if they meet OMRI s organic standards. we ve seenit in aqua-green bags at many Wal-Mart s we ve visited. so hopefully it ssomething available pretty readily across North America. We simply mix equalparts of perlite and vermiculite into the GardenSafe soil to get a texturethat has good aeration and still holds water to protect tender young roots.

so the standard formula is.

50% Shultz GardenSafe soil mix25% perlite25% vermiculite

just about any soil could be substituted here. we originally choose theGardenSafe because of it s easy availability and because it is slightlycheaper than FoxFarm OceanForest. the FFOF tends to be a lil "hot" in termsof nutes. we use mushroom compost a lot as a soil base/amendment for


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blooming plants but would guess it s also too hot for tender seedlings andclones. the GardenSafe will work great & we

ve used an organic potting soilcalled FertiLoam before and it worked great as well. organic Promix orSunshine Mix in the same proportions should work too. the specific soil isn tgoing to matter as much as simply paying attention to purchasing a qualitysoil that is organic. in the attached picture you should be able to see (ifyou look closely) that most of the 4 1/2" planters have been heavily soakedwith warm tap water. normally we

d never consider using water straight fromthe tap. but preparing soil for seeds is where we d make our only exceptionto that rule. we like to use warm water to get the soil heated up a lil bitbefore we plant our seeds. seeds will germ faster in warm soil so this helpsgive them a jump start. the little bit of chlorine that may be in some folk

stap-water might retard potential mold on the seeds and certainly wont hurtanything. finally we should add that underneath these planting flats are apair of the seedling heat matts often found in garden centers. they arefairly expensive and not absolutely necessary and frankly they are of limiteduse. as soon as the seedlings start popping their little heads above groundwe will shut them off because we don

t want to "cook" any tender lil roots.so at most they will probably only be on for two or three days. they maycontribute to a slightly faster and slightly higher germ rate so we do goahead an use them.

003 wetting-down-the-seedbed

at this point. with the future home of our seeds warm and moist and all cozyfor germination. some folks would just push their lil seeds down under thesoil a bit and be done. and certainly that ll work. it may even be a lilsimplier than what we do.

the problem w/ just pushing the seed underground in at least one bird s mindis potential problems for folks who migh have lost some feeling in therextremities due to various chronic illnesses. those tiny lil seeds can behard to feel and once fingers are wet things have a way of sticking to eachother. if a person pays $50 for a pack of seeds then each bean is $5. andwe re not wanting any potential confusion with odd seeds sticking to ourfingers. so we make lil seed holes. they are slightly smaller in diameterthan a pencil and only two or three seed lengths in depth. that is our

general rule of thumb with lil seeds. 2x or 3x the actual seed depth downinto the soil. and that works if you are pressing them into the soil ourmaking the little indentations like we use. in the next pic you will see thelil holes in the center of each square planter. At this point we

re readyfor those lil seeds.

004 lil-seed-holes

15 seeds were carefully dropped into their new homes and are waiting to betucked in for the night. After all the seed were dropped in their soildepressions they were gently covered by the warm moist soil. Transparenthumidity domes cover our seed beds but not too tightly. They are in place tohold warmth and humidity to encourage germination. As soon as the plants

beging poking above the soil surface we

ll lose the plastic covers andunplug the heating mats.

005 seed-in-the-hole006 tucked-in007 Humidity Domes

13 of 15 seeds planted are already above ground. strong and green andproudly basking in the 24/7 glow of fluorescent light. that s an 87%germ rate (so far) and it s still just 48 hours after planting so


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there s still hope for the remaining pair of seeds that remainunsprouted. Take a look at one of the sprouts.

008 7-of-8-LUI-tray009 lil-lui-seedling

One of the secrets to getting nice seedlings is of course genetic. goodgenetics will produce stronger more vigorous plants which are easier togrow. like anything else this is in general - there are exceptions toevery rule as certainly a 100% Sativa variety like "Haze" may be greatgenetics but not so simple to grow indoors for the less experienced).but one secret to strong healthy seedlings is to provide them with goodstrong light as well. while the seedlings are young and tender too muchintense light could bake them. so extreme caution is necessary if tryingto use a HPS or MH for this job. it s much easier to use fluorescentshoplight fixtures or similar lights. the rack holding the seedlings is4 long and with the planting flats it s 18" deep. that area is lit by220 watts of T-5 VHO fluorescent light. this works out to to about 36watts per square foot. because of the high humidity domes covering theseedlings the light above is raised higher than normal which protectsthe seedlings from too much heat or too intense light. the 110 watt VHOfluoro fixture is probably 10 inches above the seedlings right now. justabove the top of the humidity domes height. we have a seedling / cloningcabinet which is not pictured or in use at this time but it is lit by 2

standard 4

shoplight fixtures with 2 bulbs apiece. with that cabinetbeing a foot deep and just over 4

long it

s lit at a similar rate. ourveg area actually has a greater capacity than we need and we choose togerm the seeds out on the shelf to make this pictoral grow along easierto photograph. besides a decent amount of light our seedlings also needthe correct environment to thrive. making sure they stay warm and cozyis they key. we don t want to cross a line and make those tender lilplant too hot or too wet either. when using our 4 1/2" square plantersin standard nursery flats the humidity domes covering the tenderseedlings do not fit tight. this is actually our preference. whenhumidity domes hold excessive moisture it can cause problems forseedlings. a common seedling problem is called "damping-off". here s adefinition of damping-off from the University of Minnesota Ag Extension

service . . ."Damping-off generally refers to sudden plant death in theseedling stage due to the attack of fungi (see figure 1). These fungiare soilborne and are stimulated to grow and infect the seed or seedlingby nutrients released from a germinating seed. However, seedlings may beinjured or killed by something other than fungi, for example, toxicmaterials in the soil, excess or deficient soil moisture, seed defects,temperature extremes, toxic gases in the air, etc. A correct diagnosisis the key to effective control measures. "

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distri...ure/DG1167.html is a link to thearticle where that defintion came from. the humidity domes are simplyprotecting our seedlings from environmental extremes at this time.holdingin a lil heat and a lil extra humidity but not enough to get the air

inside "saturated" to where the domes fog up or hot enough to where theseedlings could suffer from heat stress.

knowledgequestMar 4, 2006, 02:00 PMLUI Day 2

some stem elongation and the 1st set of full leaves developing. we llkeep the humidity domes off for several hours to "harden off" theseedlings but put back on before tucking them in for the night


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010 day-2-seedling (pic)

LUI DAY 3

humidity domes were taken off for good. soil surface was "cultivated"gently with a finger.seedlings were rotated inside their flats. whenusing a good organic soil it

s very common for algae to grow on the soilsurface. sometimes even the white perlite will turn greenish in colordue to algae growth. the algae doesn

t really hurt anything but they cancompete for nutrients so we usually just smooth the surface of our soilmix gently with a finger. often times a peat based mix will shrink andpull away from planter sides. roots exposed to dry air in the "sidecracks" can die back so when cultivating the soil surface we are alwayscareful to "fill in" by pushing some extra soil along the edges of ourlil plastic planters. the soil surface was still damp from the originalsoaking so there is still no need to consider watering for several days.cultivating the soil surface helps to level and even it and willcontribute to a more even drying of the soil as well. even with thestrong light we are using (35+ watts per sq foot) the seedlings on theouter edges lean slightly towards the light. so to encourage straightgrowth we also rotated the seedlings. moving the lil babes from the edgesinto the center. the seedlings themselves show little change. perhapsincreasing slightly in size. the slightest signs of a 2nd pair of leaves

show so we

d expect to see those showing up enough for pictures tomorrow.

LUI Day 4

here s a close shot of a LUI seedling at day 4 from germination. all 13seedlings are looking happy and healthy and a wider shot at day 4 showingall 13 seedlings - looks like 13 will be the lucky number on this one!

011 day-4-LUI-seedling012 day-4-LUI-seedlings wider angle

LUI Day 5

LUI seedling at day 5 from germination. temp and humidity control areessential. temp 89F at plant level, relative humidity 42%,the room tempis only 76F so even fluorescents can put off a fair bit of heat. Day 5final notes . . .considering the warm temps at plant level we decidedthat a very light watering was in order to assure our lil seedlingswould have plenty of moisture. just before "closing up" for the eveningeach tray of seedlings was watered from below. one quart of water waspoured into the actual nursery flat that holds our planters. so the waterwas absorbed from underneath. normally we water from the top but littleseedlings like this are the exception. their root systems are stilldeveloping so we prefer not to risk washing away any soil from around theroots and will water from below if needed for a few days until the plantsare a lil more fully developed.

013 day-5-LUI-seedling014 temp-control-in-action

LUI Day 6

Seedlings showing wonderful growth at day 6

015 day-6-lui-seedling016 day-6-wide-shot


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LUI Day 7

The one week mark from breaking through the soil. the soil surface wascultivated gently again w/ a finger to disturb algae growth and to testsoil moisture. soil was still slightly damp. strong root tips show atbottom of 4 1/2 inch planters in drain holes. the lil seedlings willlikely get their first watering in the next day or two and we

ll likelyinclude a very mild organic fert along with the watering.

day-7-LUI-seedling

LUI Day 8

here s a nice view of a lil LUI seedling at day 8. so far so good!tonight the LUI seedlings were fed a very mild solution containing fishfert and liquid kelp. the plants weren t soaked. just a light wateringfrom above for each container. the fish fert is a 2-4-1 fert and here

sthe catalog description . . .

NEPTUNES HARVESTLiquid Fish Plant Food is a natural organic fertilizer made from freshNorth Atlantic fish. It is a highly nutritional plant food made by aunique cold process, unlike fish emulsion which is cooked. This cold

process protects the vitamins, amino acids, enzymes, and growth hormones;and since the nutrients are already chelated, they are readily availablefor your plant s consumption. here s the catalog description on themaxicrop . . .

MAXICROP LIQUEFIED SEAWEEDAn extract from fresh growing Norwegian Ascophyllum Nodosum seaweed. Itcontains a huge complex of chelated minor elements, important bio-growthstimulants, and organic sugars. The plant growth stimulant properties ofMaxicrop will enhance natural-growth processes, leading to greaterrooting, while producing strong healthy growth with improved resistanceto environmental stresses. we like this combination of fish ferts andkelp since it makes a complete feeding w/ the full range of major, minor

and micro nutrients for healthy plant growth. for a normal feeding we

duse 1 TBSP of Fish fert and 1 tsp of Maxicrop per gallon. since theseare tender lil seedlings we cut everything in 1/2. so the actual ratiofor this feeding was 1/2 TBSP per gallon of fish fert and 1/2 tsp pergallon of the seaweed extract. some may be wondering why we aren t usinga high nitrogen fish fert since these are vegging plants. we will be infuture feedings but a fertilizer higher in phosphorous will help tostimulate a strong and healthy root system and that

s necessary beforethe plants put on a whole lot more foilage up top.

018 LUI-Day-8019 2-4-1-Neptunes-Fish-Fert020 maxicrop-liquid-seaweed

LUI Day 9

wow. thanks for all the kind comments folks. we ll try and come back andanswer everything individually here in a sec. but before we can post a day10 update we need to show our girls on day 9. no special action or carewas taken on day 9. the lil seedlings were simply checked on and admired.

LUI-Day-9


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since we provided "ad copy" for the ferts well follow suit where possiblewith all the products we use.here

s the info on the GardenSafe soil . . .

Garden Safe All Purpose Potting Mix. Aren t all potting soils organic? No!Most contain synthetic fertilizers and other synthetic additives. GardenSafe All Purpose Potting Mix is great for growing organic herbs andcontainer vegetables like tomatoes, but it s also excellent for all pottedflowering and foliage plants! Makes a great soil amendment for organicgardens, too!

Listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) for use inproduction of organic food and fiber. Premium blend of Canadian sphagnumpeat moss, composted organic matter with humates, plus perlite forexcellent drainage and aeration. Organic plant food with high microbecontent, humus and organic matter feeds up to nine months. Organic wettingagent extracted from the desert yucca plant increases water penetrationand uptake we ll attach a pic as well to help folk look for this productif they are interested. FoxFarm OceanForest would probably be a goodsubstitute though it seems to be a lil bit "hotter" in terms of nutes. anygood organic potting mix really will do! in all honesty Dandy Don we don

tremember which side of the border we picked this soil up on. we havefriends and family on both sides and tend to pick up a good sampling ofthis type of product when we see it on sale at the end of season. we dospecifically remember it being a Wally-World though. the soil is amended

so we could probably go further than day 8-10 for the first feeding. welike adding some fish fert / kelp though to make sure those lil seedlingsnever lack for anything they may be hungry for. but to directly answeryour question DD - there was nothing else added before this first feedingas for the temp and humidiy guage it s manufactured by Extech. And here sthat ad copy . . .

HYGRO-THERMOMETER CLOCK (Model 445702) Features:Attractive indicator is ideal for desktop or wall mounting applicationsThree large bright LCD s display temperature in both C and F, Humidity andTime Provides Max/Min readings for temperature and humidity.Measuringranges include Temperature -4 to 122 F (-20 to 50 C) the accuracy: 1.8 F( 1 C) Humidity 25 to 95% RH the accuracy: 6% RH Resolution: 1% RH; 0.1 C

or FClock Function automatically displays 12 hour time with AM/PMindication when in F mode, and displays in 24 hour time when in C modeMemory with reset function stores minimum and maximum measurements forboth temperature and humidity Complete with built-in tilt stand, wallmounting bracket and 1.5V AAA battery Dimensions: 4.3 X 2.8 X 0.8"(109 X 71 X 20mm); weight 4 oz

022GardenSafe-Soil023 hygro-thermometer-clock

LUI Day 10

Our lil LUI s aren t so tiny anymore. here s a day 10 shot.

024 LUI-Seedling-Day-10

LUI Day 11

The lil LUI s continue to show great development. individual plants wererotated in their planting flats to make sure everyone grows straight andany outer edge seedlings do not lean in towards the light.today theseedlings got a soil drench with a light fert solution. we ve recentlydecided to try Age Old Organic fertilizers in our garden so that s what


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we ll use for this feeding. but any complete organic fert will do here.we

ll use the ferts at about 1/2 strength again to make sure that wedon t over feed the lil plants. we d normally use 1 to 2 tablespoons ofthe Age Old Organic Grow ferts per gallon so we ll cut the mix on half.our adjusted rate is 1 tablespoon for every 2 gallons of water. the AgeOld ferts are short on Magnesium so we also added 1/2 teaspoon of epsomsalts to the same 2 gallons of water for this feeding. each plant wasgently soaked until it showed a dribble of runoff.

025 LUI-Seedling-Day-11-Closeup026 LUI-Seedlings-Day-11 wider

LUI Day 12

as for printing our exact fertilizer routine. that s somewhat hard to dosince it varies some from grow to grow and strain to strain. we watch andobserve our plants closely and feed accordingly. also. we ve beenexperimenting with Age Old Organics and are still "dialing in" our use.we ll also use Earth Juice products and guano teas too before it s over.folks will see everything we feed these girls (for better or worse ) andget an idea of our feeding patterns as we go. the idea behind the threadisn

t to get folks to copy our technique step by step. the idea is to getfolks to understand the reason and thinking behind our plant care. thenfolks can re-create as much or little of our growing style as they wish.

the concept behind the the very first light feeding was a very weaknutrient mix with a lil extra phosphorous to encourage strong rootdevelopment. it wouldn t matter if you used a fish fert / kelp mix likewe did here at "the nest" or if you used a different fert. any weak"bloom" style fert with some N and K and a higher concentration of Pwould work. the second light feeding was a more balanced fertilizer. it sheavier on the N than the P or K and is 2-1-1 ratio of nutes (the Age OldGrow is actually something like 12-6-6). so instead of using Age OldOrganics like the 3LB did here at the "bird s nest". any complete organicgrow formula with that kind of balance should work. our next feeding willbe high in nitrogen to really spur some strong vegetative growth. we mayuse a mexican bat guano tea or perhaps a 5-1-1 fish fert. either onewould work. it s far more important to understand why we are feeding the

plants what we are than to try and use the same exact fertilizers as the3LB. we ll probably throw everything but the kitchen sink at these babesbefore it s over. every fert in our array can be easily replaced with analternative (with the exception of kelp and alfalfa which contain planthormones - and SuperThrive has the hormone in the alfalfa). that s one ofthe beauties about organic gardening. there s a lot of ways to get greatresults.we re interested in showing the variety of choices available tothe organic gardener and what can be done.

027 day-12-LUI

AGE OLD GROW is a fast acting natural high Nitrogen with a 2 to 1 nitrogenratio to encourage continued growth and vigor. Age Old Grow is

manufactured by combining fish, seaweed, and naturally occurring nutrientsto form a stable odorless liquid plant food. it s our experience that itreally is odorless and convenient to use and measure. it probably won

treplace Earth Juice fertilizers as our "standard". but the Age Old nutescertainly offer great advantages in terms of ease of use. we ve decidedour next feeding will be a guano tea.it s still at least a day or twobefore the LUI

s will need another watering / feeding. and since guanoteas need time to "brew" we ll need to start work on this today. here sthe info on the primary ingredient in this tea.


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MEXICAN BAT GUANOThis Hi-Nitrogen (10-2-0) Guano from south of the border brings importantnutrients to plants, and adds active micro-organisms to soil. These tinyorganisms unlock nutrients bound up in the soil and break down thecompounds in the guano, releasing major soluble and trace nutrients toeager plant roots. The result is increased soil porosity and a healthierroot system. this stuff is "hot". meaning it s nutrients are concentrated.it is an organic fert that has the potential to "burn" plants thru overfertilization.

028 age-old-grow029 mexican-bat-guano


We

ve got 13 LUI

s on their 13th day. our lil plants required no actualcare for day 13. but we did mix the guano tea today as advertised. inessence we are already preparing the first watering of 2004 for thesebabes. we mix our teas in 5 gallon plastic gasoline containers. they areeasy and convenient to use as well as durable and affordable. and they area great way to "brew up" a good bat or seabird guano tea .we fill the gascan with 4 gallons of water and then add 3 tablespoons of Mexican Bat Guano

and 3 teaspoons of powdered Maxicrop kelp concentrate. the mexi bat poop isso strong it has a urea smell to it like. inhaling the dust from powderedguanos is not very healthful so it s best to wear a mask while preparing thedry portions of this tea. after dumping the guano and kelp into the gas canit s shaken vigorously. swished back and forth to mix the ingredients and tohelp aerate the liquid. teas brew up best if actually aerated by a cheapaquarium pump bubbling through the water to make sure the tea stays welloxygenated. a good thorough swishing every couple of hours can besubstituted for the aqua pump but don t forget! we ll let the tea "brew"like that for at least 48 hours before use. and since this is a concentratedtea we will also dilute it before watering our plants. Here s a pic anotherlucky #13 shot. this pic will be the same seedling from the last picture.it s a different angle and separated from it s brother s and sisters to give

a better perspective on this individual plant

s growth

030 LUI-Day-13031 LUI-Day-13-mugshot

LUI Day 14

here

s a shot of the whole bunch of our lil LUI

s on their 14th day. LouieLUI. oh baby. say we gotta grow now. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. maybeour secret is that we sing to our plants.

032 LUI-at-2-weeks

I have a question though, how do you judge when to water with these bigcontainers? do you lift the corner, stick your finger in the soil or what?I am havin a harder time judging when to water with such big containers.

we literally just feel the soil w/ our fingers. and over time we ve justgotten into patterns of simply "knowing" when they need water throughobservation and experience. there are thin lil moisture probes that cantake readings w/o distrubing roots and we actually have one but haven tused it in quite some time. when we water a 2 x 3 container it s usually


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with a gallon of water for the entire container. on an extremely rareoccasion maybe as much as a gallon and a half if the atmosphere is dry andthe girls seem especially thirsty. with a moderate watering like that we areusually watering our blooming girls every other day. but your mileage mayvary depending on strain and your relative humidity and temps.

Although these big containers can be quite heavy when filled with dirt,plants, etc, IF you can lift even part of em and judge how they feel....thelighter they feel the dryer they are, that s probably the most fool proofway of judging moisture content. That being said, (And I

m going to disagreewith tlb about using these meters & "disturbing" roots....I m thinking hereabout what you do when you areate your lawn with one of those pluggers. Lasttime I checked my lawn LIKED that. Though not as radical, your pot plantwill too!) there

s NOTHING wrong with sticking that probe of an inexpensivemoisture meter into the soil for a reading. In fact, I believe that this"areation" procedure is beneficial to overall plant health, the reason beingprecisely that it does areate the media. I use my meter mostly for thisareation procedure in my larger containers, although I still use the liftmethod mostly judging when to water/feed. And I poke the shit out of em!!.All the way across the top of the dirt. Not all the time but a couple oftimes during the grow, areating the soil around your plants (especially ifthey have been in the container awhile and are rootbound...think about it)will also assist in even watering and feeding by eliminating dry spots inthe soil. So poke away. Even if you don

t use it like I do, using it when

you have a question about your containers moisture content will only easeyour mind AND help your plants imho. Good luck!! GD (Ganjaden)

I am using 10 gallon containers, one with 2 plants and one with 3 plants.I ve been giving them a lot more water then the birds seem to at almost 2gallons each. I have not really observed any signs of overwatering exceptslight drooping right after the watering which goes away within an hour or2 I d say and they perk right up. Do you think this is an acceptable methodof watering as well? What do you think the advantages are to using a muchsmaller amount of water more frequently?

LUI Day 15

the advantage of more frequent light waterings is better soil oxygen levelsand therefore better plant vigor and health. we believe in geting the soilgood and damp throughout but never sopping wet. plant roots like a mix ofwater, nutrients and oxygen and light waterings provide this. as for themoisture probe. we think they are great tools but after a couple decades ofgardening such things tend to languish on our shelves . we don t use our pHmeter much either. when we were starting growing such tools were very useful.the best way to describe the evolution is to say that over time we learned towatch our plants and learn what they were telling us. the tools (like amoisture probe) served to teach us what we were seeing in the plants and nowwe understand what the plants are telling us without the meters. we did waterw/ our MexiBat Guano tea on day 15. it was diluted 1/4th parts tea to 3/4thparts plain water and each of the plants was thoroughly soaked. they were not

left in "standing water" but each pot was watered until they began to dribblesome run-off. here s a day 15 shot of a LUI.

033 Day-15-LUI-seedling

LUI Day 16

the intermediate step is usually gallon or 5 quart "ice cream" buckets. fromthere we d normally step up to our 2 x 3 containers but in cases where thebabes are not sexed yet we ll use 3 gallon or 5 gallon containers as the


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final destination. here s today s pic

034 LUI-Day-16

the guano tea got used over several days. teas will certainly be good for atleast a week as long as they are kept aerated. but the LUI

s aren

t our onlyvegging plants so they didn t get an "exclusive" on the tea as it was alsoshared with others. we actually had some very thirsty vegging plants. youmight say we had a "tea party" over the new year. so we ll be looking to mixup a different fert mix the next time our lil LUI

s need a feeding. a normalusage for the tea would be to use about 1/2 of concentrated tea as described(mixing it directly into water). when the can is about 1/2 empty we

ll then"top off" the can with another couple gallons of straight H2O and use thatundiluted until it

s gone. it makes a strong tea that will give a great boostto vegetative growth.the LUI s are showing some great growth and yes theywill be ready for transplanting soon. we usually top clone our girls beforetransplanting. but these are growing so well with such tight internodes thatwe may end up transplanting first and then taking our top clones afterwards.we ll watch them over the next few days and decide based on the plant sneeds. right now the plan would be a day 21 transplant. thanks again for allthe nice comments. we re proud of the progress these plants have been makingso far. and we

re very proud that this grow and thread are helping to teachand inspire others. it s that thought. of helping other s grow their ownmedicine. that makes the actual time and effort of documenting and

explaining everything worthwhile.

LUI Day 17

Day 17 Care . . . soil surface was "cultivated" gently with a finger at thebegining of the day. by the end of the day the lil LUI s needed a littledrink. the soil surface was dry to the touch and the planters were light inweight. since they ve already recieved 3 feedings in their young lives wesimply watered the whole bunch lightly but evenly with a single gallon ofplain water. Here s today s progress pic and a different look at the sameplant. the 2nd picture shows the "undergrowth" on the lower nodes.

035 LUI-Day-17

036 Day-17-LUI

LUI Day 18

today we gave the LUI s a light spray with a liquid kelp solution. this isa form of foliar feeding. for now growers this means our plants willactually absorb nutrients and hormones directly through their leaves. firstthe lights in the grow area were turned off as a precaution. cold waterhitting hot lamps can actually cause a bulb to explode so this is primarilyto protect our light bulbs. under intense light it s sometimes possible forwater spots to occasionally cause leaf burning. so turning off the lampsalso protect the plants. 1 teaspoon of MaxiCrop liquid Kelp concentrate wasthen poured into a gallon of water and mixed. a quart of this mixture was

poured into a spray bottle a fine mist was applied to all plants in our growportion of our garden (not the bloom room). all leaves were thoroughlydrenched top and bottom with the liquid seaweed solution until moisturedripped freely off the leaf tips. once the plants were thoroughly soaked weincreased air circulation in the grow room for a hour until the plants haddried. then we turned the grow lights back on. a nice leaf drenching foliarfeeding is just that simple.kelp is magical stuff. it contains a completerange of micronutrients and also provides a nice boost of potassium. kelpalso contains some very nice plant growth hormones. applying kelp sprayscan speed plant growth and actually increase final plant yields. it also


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helps to provide increased resistance to pests, diseases, and a variety ofstresses.

037 LUIs-Day-18

LUI Day 19

as for interrupting the light cycle that

s a good question and somethingthat is pretty commonly misunderstood so thanks for asking! the criticaltime for plants is in bloom. Cannabis reacts to extended periods ofdarkness and if blooming plants nighttime is interrupted it can causeproblems. but vegging plants are certainly more forgiving. and even withblooming plants having the lights turned off for an hour or two one dayisn

t going to cause problems. the rule of thumb is not to interrupt yourcannabis girls beauty rest at night while they are blooming. but aninterruption in the day cycle isn

t such a big thing. the 12 hours ofdarkness for bloom are the ticket! we currently use our vegging lightsaround the clock so letting our plants have an hour or two of darknessonce every great while is not any big thing.

038 LUIs-Day-19

thanks again for the nice comments obie and DutchMasterZ. we re very happywith these plant

s progress but will give credit where it

s due and also

say that these have been easy plants to grow so far. another question hascome to us via PM that we

d like to address publically and that querryconcerns epsom salts and the organic grower. epsom salts is actuallymagnesium sulfate so the basic question was how such a chemical salt canqualify as "organic". the simple answer is to say that there are manydefinitions of the term organic and one definition includes pure minedminerals which have not been chemically processed. a couple of exampleswould be soft rock phosphate and greensand which are considered organicsupliments in some circles. a more common example would be the dolomitelime that is a part of many many soil reciepes. we use a "natural" minedsource of epsom salts (when we have to use it). http://www.epsogrow.com/is the website of the product. and again in keeping with our practice ofproviding manufacturer s "ad copy" we ll do the same for the epsogrow.

EpsoGrow is: 100% natural Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate) originating from naturaldeposits in Germany. A quick acting magnesium and sulfur fertilizer for dry or liquidapplication. Clean and odor free! Safe to use around the house, children and pets. Non-burning even if recommended application is mistakenly exceeded. Used and recommended by professional landscapers and gardeners. Used by commercial growers of many crops such as tomatoes, melons,potatoes, grapes, pineapples, ferns, wheat and many others! Being used by professional sports teams to keep their turf green and

healthy. Widely used by greenhouses nationwide.

A Natural Source of Magnesium and Sulfur -A Vital Supplement for More Vigorous PlantsThe all natural way to grow like a pro! Brighter flower coloration, longer bloom duration. Bigger vegetables. Stronger trees, greener leaves. Enriches soil fertility.


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The secret of the European garden:Europeans have been using Epsom Salt on their gardens for generations toimprove plant growth. Finally there is an all natural source availablehere in the U.S. that s the EpsoGrow advertising department talking. notthe 3LB. but this is a good choice for Epsom salts if they are needed.we re not going to say we are big advocates of regular use of epsom salts.in general we believe that dolomite lime is a better source of magnesiumsince it also contributes to pH balance. some organic ferts like Age OldOrganics are short on Magnesium. and it

s also absent in some common saltfertilizers like Miracle Grow. magnesium is an absolutely essentialelement for healthy rapidly growing cannabis. so epsom salts are a goodtool to have available in the gardener s arsenal of resources.

we re actually in the pleasurable position where these girls are ahead ofour expected schedule. it

s hard to believe that they are not quite 3weeks old yet. but the real easy part is behind us. we re going to be topcloning them soon so we

ve got to make room for clones. and these girlsare quite ready to be transplanted up to larger containers as well. sothe 3 birds will actually be having to do some real work with this growsoon!

knowledgequestMar 4, 2006, 02:11 PM

LUI Day 20

our normal routine would be to top-clone these babes and as soon as we resure that the new cuttings/clones are rooted. then the originals (fromthe seed) move to bloom. so looking at a calendar we ll be doing sometop-cloning in the next few days. then it s probably a couple week wait tobe sure our new "back-ups" are all good. then the originals move to bloom.if for instance we top-cloned this upcoming weekend. then these babeswould move to bloom sometime in the last week of January. these babes aregrowing fast. if we were in a hurry they d be ready to clone tonight.since were not in a rush we ll likely transplant them first. then a coupledays later we ll top clone. and then we ll bush them up pretty well beforemoving them to bloom one of our "secrets" is patience in veg. healthy and

lush vegetation going into bloom leads to more (and better) final herb.

Let me know if you see a predominant dark green/black/purple coloration inthe fan leaves in Vegatative/Early Flowering. I don

t think it

s a nutedeficiency. as the plants are exhibiting perfect fertilizizaiton signs(ever so slightly burnt tips) IMO the sign of perfect fertilizer regimen

039 LUI-Day-20

hey there ~toothy~ . . . it s good to see ya round these parts. weaffectionately call them Louies too and they do already show (at only 20days) some of the coloration you mention. we wrote it off to the "daylightfluorescent" effect that sometimes happens under strong fluoro lights of

either sunlight or daylight spectrum. it

s something we

ve noticed withplants grown under lights that are predominantly above 5000K in terms oftheir color temp. we

ve seen Milly Blunt comment of this effect too. howfan leaves can exhibit a blueish / black / purple / indigo coloration underdaylight fluoros. and certainly it s not something we see with everystrain. and you are absolutely correct. it does not appear to be adeficiency in any manner shape or form. anymore we simply associate thatcoloration with extreme health and vigor. we d guess that the plants whoshow the darkest coloration like this are generally also the ones who willshow more of these hues when maturing under the correct environmental


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conditions. as for the slightly burnt tips being the sign of a perfectfert regimen. in general we tend to agree. it

s actually the sign thatwe ve pushed our plants ever so slightly beyond the edge but that regimintends to also push out the biggest buds. in our Herijuana grow we recentlyhave found an especially hungry couple of plant s that have yet to reallyexhibit that slight leaf tip burn in bloom. even after repeated doublestrength feedings with EarthJuice. some strains and some particular plantswill always be an exception to the "normal" rules.

Day 20 Care and Feeding . . .At the beginning of day 20 we felt the soil of our babes and it was stillslightly damp. by the end of the day the soil was dry to the touch andthe 4 1/2" planters were light in weight. so it was time for awatering/feeding. today

s main ingredient will be . . .Alaska FishFertilizer 5-1-1 All purpose deodorized fish emulsion.Made from 100%sea-going fish. Contains over 19 different trace elements, plus 11different vitamins (5-1-1). OMRI Listed-approved for use in production oforganic food. Stimulates soils micro-organisms to help build soilcontent this feeding will be a fairly heavy one. the first truly fullstrength feeding we

ve given these babes. we mixed 1 Tablespoon of thefish ferts and 1 teaspoon of the liquid Maxicrop kelp concentrate pergallon of water. and soaked the soil of each plant until there was somerunoff from the drain holes on each plant. a few minutes later we wentback and dribbled just a lil more into each planter. in all we used 5

quarts of the mixture to water/feed the 13 "Louies". we

d like to pointout again that it

s not necessary to purchase every individual productwe use in this thread to recreate our results. the mexi bat guano tea weapplied recently provides a similar nutrient benefit to this fish fertfeeding. we are trying to show a wide variety of products and explain thethinking behind each feeding so our results can be recreated withwhatever product is available locally. wonderful grows can thrive with assmall a selection as 2 or 3 different ferts to recap what we ve done so farin terms of watering .the very first light feeding was actually a bloomfert mix very diluted - in what was basically a 1-2-1 ratio of N-P-K. ifmemory serves correctly we then watered with a very diluted balanced fertmix with a 2-1-1 N-P-K ratio. and we followed that with a high nitrogen teasimilar to a dilute 5-1-1 fert. then our plants got a light drink of pure

water. now we

ve hit them with a full strength 5-1-1 fert again enhancedwith kelp on day 20. a folair feeding with diluted kelp extract finishes offthe listing of what these girls have gotten so far. that s everything throughtheir first three weeks.

040 alaska-fish-fert

after discussion amongst "the flock" it

s been decided that tonight will bethe night we work some cloning magic. woodstock is our magic cloningbirdie. so we ll be documenting our cloning techniques later on and thenext time you see the babes they ll be getting "topped".

LUI Day 21 - 3 weeks of LUI

here s a couple of shots at day 21. we d planned on cloning tonight. but eventhe best laid plans oft go awry. we didn

t have the soil mix we use forclones (which is identical to the seedling mix). so we ll have to put off ourtop-cloning for another day or two. the babes are doing great so waitinganother day won t hurt a thing. but it would have been nice to get moving.shot two shows the whole bunch of girls. the rack is 4

long and the traysare 18" wide. so that means that these 13 LUIs have basically filled in a 6square foot canopy in only 21 days. from seed! not bad for a bunch of olddirt farmers.


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041 LUI-Day-21042 LUIs-Day-21

LUI Day 22

tonight we top cloned our babes. if we re fortunate enough to get a 100%success rate at rooting this will provide us with a prefect set of back-upclones so the original babes can be moved to bloom. our soil mix for clonesis the same mix as seedlings. 1 part vermiculite, 1 part perlite, and 2 partsgood organic soil. we suggest wetting down the vermiculite and perlite beforemixing to cut down on potentially hazardous dust. and we also suggest wearinga protective mask. gloves aren t a bad idea either when mixing soil. thoughto be honest we kind like putting our hands in the dirt like the originalseedlings. we ll again use the square 4 1/2" planters. each planter is filledto the top with soil mix and then soaked very thoroughly. a broken piece ofbambo stake is used to prepare the hole in the center of each planter for thecutting. and then we get ready for some action as the powdered rootinghormone is dumped out onto a plastic lid.

043 clone-step-one---prep-the-soil044 clone-step-two---prep-the-hole045 clone-step-three---prep-the-root-hormone

when top-cloning seedlings it

s important to begin keeping specific track ofindividual plants. so we label each LUI with a number 1 thru 13 and create 2sets of labeled ID stakes. one for the clone and one for the original parent.while the original seedlings move through the bloom cycle we ll be able tonurture their back-ups and save the keepers. in essence this top-clone willturn into a "mother" plant for any keepers we might select. we use a exactoknife with a razor sharp edge to actually take our cuttings. any razor bladeedge should work. we ve also tried using pruning shears and other similarsissors type impliments but found that they cause more "crushing" plantdamage and result in a lower rooting success rate. the actual cutting istaken at an angle across the stem. immediately after the cutting is takenthe entire freshly cut top is dropped into a waiting pitcher of plain roomtemperature water. we get all of our garden water from two sources. straight

from the cold water tap or from our dehumidifier. we always let our tapwater sit at least 24 hours to adjust to room temp.

046 clone-step-four---prep-labels047 clone-step-five---take-cutting048 clone-step-six---cuttings-into-water

the next step after letting the fresh cutting sit in water for a few momentsis to prep the cutting itself. we tend to take fairly long cuttings and trimoff at least one node of leaf growth. our experience is that roots candevelop all along the surface of the cutting which is underground. but thefirst roots usually start showing where the original cut was made and whereother leaf nodes have been trimmed. we use a plastic lid to hold our rooting

powder since it is flexible and can be gently curled around the cutting tohelp coat what will be the underground portions of the stem. we use a nicethick layer of powdered rooting hormone all around the stem. the powderedrooting hormone sticks nicely to the freshly wet stem. with the holesalready prepared all that s left to do is place our cuttings into their newhomes and gently push the wet soil into contact with the plant stem. it sthat simple! we have great success with this cloning technique and rarelyhave anything less than a 90% success rate. and finally a pic of a pair offinished clones. nestled into soil and ready to start shooting out roots


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049 clone-step-seven---prep-cutting050 clone-step-eight---roll-in-powder051 clone-step-nine---put-in-soil052 finished-clones

Oops, sorry to break the apparent trend, but I have a slightly technicalquestion. I m just curious about your opinion of the Age Old nutes. I see youhave used them already (I think... not completely sober right now).

the Age Old Organics look to be very good ferts. in a direct comparison totheir most popular competetors (FoxFarm and EarthJuice) we d say that the AgeOld Organics beat the FoxFarm "hands down" in terms of overall quality. Theybeat the EarthJuice in terms of ease of use the EarthJuice line of productswill likely remain our primary choice for complete fertilizers. but wecertainly wouldn t steer anyone away from the AgeOld Organics. and for folkswho have issues with odor or dificulty mixing fertilizer mixes in advance.then the Age Old would become the choice.

Hey do you use a dome with your clones, or spray them with water?

the correct answer is . . .C - none of the above we don t use a dome (wefound them more trouble than they were worth) and we don

t mist our cloneseither (ditto). we just keep them in a moist high humidity environment. forthe first few days after cutting we

ll maintain an inch or two of water in

the bottom of the nursery flats that the 4 1/2" pots are in. it keeps thesoil damp and relative humidity high w/o the bother of a dome or misting.for the record we ll be keeping an eye on the clones too as part of the"grow along" and reporting on their progress and care. so we ll keepeveryone informed about both sets of babes!

LUI Day 23

today is Day 23 for the seedlings and Day 1 for our LUI clones. the 13original seedlings were watered tonight with about a gallon of water sharedequally between them. we used the Age Old Organics grow formula to feed thebabes with this watering. when our seedlings were top-cloned last night theywere all given a tiny drink of pure water. and tonight they were already dry

to the touch and light in feel (or is that dry to feel and light in touch?).the babes are drying out pretty quickly now and are pretty good sized forplants in a small 4 1/2" planter. so they ll need to be repotted thisweekend. it

s very likely our next LUI post will end up being a few pics anda lil mini description of repotting. it sure looks like our lil darlingshave already outgrown their first homes!

053 LUI-Day-23---1-day-after-topping054 LUI-Day-After-Topping

LUI Backup Clones Day 1

here s a peak of the little top-clone babes that were taken last night. no

action was necessary. they were just admired. our "cloning cabinet" is justover 4 feet in length and about 10 inches deep. it comes out to somethinglike 3.75 square feet if memory serves correctly. after some searching wewere able to find standard 4 fluorescent fixtures which were slim enough(with the bulbs set close enough together) that a pair of fixtures would fitin our cabinet. so that s a total of 4 x 4 fluorescent bulbs lighting ourcloning cabinet. 160 watts of mixed daylight spectrum, sunlight spectrum,and growlight bulbs. that s more watts per sq foot than most folks use toroot clones. it s a fairly recent discovery here but we ve found that theincreased light has also increased our success rate. if using this level of


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light with clones it critical to pay attention to temp at the clones level.while we want to provide lots of light energy for vigorous growth. we alsoneed to avoid "cooking" the leaves before the plants develop roots. 75degrees F with humidity something around 60% or 70% seems to be ideal.

055 LUI-Clones---Day-1

we

ve generally run our vegging lights on 24/7 so rarely do we have much"sex expression" while in the veg state. we ve actually been planning oncutting our veg room back to only 18 hours of light per day in order to cutdown on our hydro bill. in some cases that change can be enough to triggersex expression. we

ll be seeing soon for ourselves how the LUI

s react onthis one!

LUI Day 24

the LUI s are looking very nice and filling in the canopy nicely where thetop clones had been taken. here

s a few views.

056 LUI-Day-24-Top-View057 LUI-Day-24-Under-Canopy058 LUI-Day-24

knowledgequest

Mar 4, 2006, 02:14 PMLUI Backup Clones Day 2

these clones were given a little drink of pure water today to make sure theystay well hydrated.

059 LUI-Day-2-Clones

Today we plan on repotting our original 13 LUI babes into little biggerhomes. as you may remember we started back on December 15 with these babesin standard 4 inch square planters. they are quite convenient since 8 fitto a standard planting flat. we usually count on them sustaining at least 3to 4 weeks of growth before transplant. the next step up here at the bird s

nest is to 5 quart utility buckets. ice cream buckets of a similar size areoften available for folks who indulge in such. and generally any 1 gallon or5 quart container will do. our current preference is for buckets where theplastic is kind of "frosted" but still somewhat translucent. it allows forobservation of the root ball s condition at a glance. we can literally watchwaterings seep down into the root ball and can watch root developmentthrough the sides. one of our growing friends from CW turned us on to thepotential of the "see thru" sides in terms of observing root growth andwatering (thanks KK!). and it certainly doesn t seem to bother the plants atall that their roots get a lil bit of diffused light! Our planting mix willbe all commercial products. were doing this in keeping with our hope tomake this grow as accessible as possible. we want folks to be able toreproduce our efforts and not think that what they see is due to our

magical soil re-mixes. in general we do believe that our harvest weightsand final quality are better when using our re-mixed soil which hasliterally been built and nurtured here at the nest for the last few years.perhaps when we show the clone generation growing out we can put them in acomposted soil re-mix for comparison. we re going to mix together 3 basicproducts for the LUIs to grow in for the next stage. well mix one partmushroom compost with one part FoxFarm Ocean Forest potting soil and thenwell add perlite until it all feel right. so the basic recipe is assimple as a bag of the FFOF and a bag of the shroom post. and then enoughperlite to make sure the soil will be well aerated. Heres a description of


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mushroom compost weve copied from another online source . . .

MUSHROOM COMPOST . . . Commercial mushrooms grow in a specially formulatedand processed compost made from wheat straw, hay, corn cobs, cotton seedhulls, gypsum and chicken manure. The 3 to 4 week long composting period isclosely supervised and managed to assure that the composting temperaturesexceed 160F for a few days in addition to a steam pasteurization whichoccurs about one week before mushroom. spawn is mixed with the compost.Finally, a layer of sphagnum peat moss mixed with ground limestone is topdressed onto the compost, and mushrooms grow on the peat. When the harvestif finished, farmers steam pasteurize everything in the growing room anddispose of the peat moss and compost that remain. This product is sold asmushroom soil, spent mushroom compost (SMC) or spent mushroom substrate(SMS). Mushroom soil is great for gardens as a slow release organicfertilizer (2-1-1, pH 6.8) when mixed into soil or as a mulch one year anda soil amendment the next. With SMC there need be no concern about heavymetals or pesticides since the compost ingredients have very low levels ofheavy metals. Mushroom farmers have used integrated pest managementpractices for decades and pesticides are rarely used on mushroom crops.With steam pasteurization, all weed seeds are dead as are any insects andother pests that might be present. So thats a description of the mushroomcompost which is a great soil amendment or even stand alone soil medium.for this grow were going to mix it with FFOF. th FoxFarm OceanForest is agreat stand alone soil medium itself. but for most folks its very

expensive. weve heard of some lucky folks finding it through their localHome Depot but this seems to be the exception rather then the rule. mixingit with the mushroom compost cost averages a great cheap soil medium anda great expensive one heres a product description for the FFOF soil mix. . .

FoxFarm 100% Natural & Organic Ocean Forest Potting Soil. FoxFarm OceanForest Potting Soil is a powerful blend of Pacific Northwest sea going fish,crab meal, shrimp meal and plenty of earthworm castings, nature s finest soilamendment. FoxFarm has added composted forest humus and selected peat mossesto create the optimum organic medium for a versatile planting environment.Ocean Forest Potting Soil starts seedlings naturally so they can becomestrong, vigorous plants. Plant directly into FoxFarm Ocean Forest PottingSoil for exceptional results, it s ready-to-use. No additional ingredients

are required. Use as a potting soil for indoor or outdoor potted plants.Perfect for vegetables, fruits, herbs, flowers and berries. Also makes agreat soil amendment for gardens, trees, shrubs and roses. Super start forseeds and seedlings. Light texture for excellent aeration and drainageproperties. No additional fertilizers needed for as long as 30 days. Idealfor flowers, gardens and houseplants. Loosens clay and rocky soils whilepromoting nutrient uptake by plants. Contains composted forest humus,sphagnum peat moss, Pacific Northwest sea-going fish, crab meal, shrimpmeal, earthworm castings, vermiculture compost (bedding material andmanure), sandy loam, perlite, fossilized bat guano, granite dust, Norwegiankelp meal, and oyster shell (for pH adjustment). that s the "story" on theFFOF soil. mixed together with mushroom compost it has the potential to be agreat soil medium for our little LUI s. add a lil perlite and were sure the

babes will be in heaven! it

s a busy day at the nest. but we

ll try and beback later with some transplant pic.

ok then . . . on to describe a simple soil mix. As indicated we ll be usingthe FoxFarm Ocean Forest potting soil and mushroom compost. the FoxFarmcomes in a 1.5 cubic foot bag. we dumped a bag and a half of the FFOF (2.25cubic feet) into a 50 gallon rubbermaid container where we mix soils. andthen we added an equal amount of mushroom compost. we have mushroom compostin 1 cu foot bags. so 2 and one quarter bags of mushroom compost were added(2.25 cubic feet). here s a pic of the mushroom compost and FFOF side by


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side in a container.

060 FFOF-and-Mushroom-Compost

next we mixed the FFOF and the mushroom compost together. this mixture wasrich and heavy. so comparison in the front of this pic is a smaller bin ofour "seedling/clonining mix" which is 50% organic potting soil and 25% eachperlite and vermiculite. as we said it was a nice rich organic mix. but alittle bit "heavy" for our taste. so we ll add perlite for areation. weadded a total of 25 quarts of perlite to the 4.5 cubic feet of potting mixand the perlite spread on top of our soil mix is shown in the second photo.

061 Patrially-Mixed-FFOF-and-Compost062 Perlite-Added-to-FFOF-and-Compost

as we

ve said before here and in other threads. when handling perlite (orvermiculite) it s best to wear a mask. we also tend to wet down materialslike this if possible. the same rule holds true when working with otherpotentially hazardous organic materials like bat and sea bird guano. theycant really be wet down like perlite. but they may harbor bacteria whichcause respiratory inflammation or infection and are of special concern forfolks with pre-existing lung related illness or compromised immune systems.dust masks are always prudent when handling powdered garden materials! thisfinal soil shot is the finished product all mixed together. it

s darker and

richer than our seedling/cloning mix which is shown for comparison. moremature plants get a richer and heavier mix to sustain heavy growth!. but itis significantly lighter than the mushroom compost or even the FFOF alone.since we want to keep the roots well aerated.

063 Final-FFOF-and-Compost-Mix

that container is just for soil mixing and storage Badtolz. tonight we regoing to be transplanting 13 LUI s into 5 quart containers. that meansthey ll barely touch the soil we mixed up. there s probably 40 gallons ofsoil mixed there. when we use our 2 x3 containers each holds more than 20gallons of soil. so it s pretty easy for folks to understand why we learnedto remix our soil endlessly and effectively.

LUI Day 25

We

ll be showing these girls getting transplanted. but wanted to get theday 25 group shot shown. the next time these babes are shown as a group theywill be into new homes. someone mentioned stretch and these girls show a lilbit more stretch than might be expected for a couple of reasons. thetopping/cloning we did took the best / tightest growth off of these plants.that does some funny things to plant growth hormones for a few days. most ofthe plant growth hormones are concentrated at the growing tip. toppingcauses the plant to "redistribute" growth and spreads those hormones for atime. we cut each plant back to 3rd complete pair of nodes. 6 total branchesper plant. so these remaining branches were lower / smaller branches that

had been fairly well shaded. with transplanting and a lil time to recoverfrom topping (which difuses growth hormones out throught the plant). thingsshould tighten back up well and soon.

064 LUI-Day-25

here we show the first three pics of our LUI getting transplanted. the babesare watered lightly using plain water to help make sure their root ballslides out of the planter more easily. then we squeeze the sides of the4 1/2" planters lightly to help encourage the root ball to come our whole.


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and with a little shake to help get them moving. we gently slide it out ofthe planter. the final pic of these three shows the root system these babeshave grown in less than a month.

065 repot-1066 repot-2067 repot-3

the LUI was gently placed in it s new home. the 5 quart buckets aren t a bigstep up from the 4 1/2" pots. but they

ll serve nicely for a two or threeweeks until these babes are basically ready to move into bloom. a coupleinches of fresh soil mix are placed in the bottom of the container. we usedthree heaping handfuls of dirt. after sliding the seedling into place. wegently add enough dirt to fill around the edges and shake it down to compactit without pressing. it s just that simple and our LUI s already look happyand content in their new homes!

068 repot-4069 repot-5

and here s a final Day 25 photo with the plants in their new "digs"

070 LUI-Day-25-After-Transplant

quote: I can also see you gave them another nice drink after you put them intheir new homes.

Absolutely DutchMasterZ . . .thanks for pointing this out because it ssomething we forgot to mention. we review the thread over the last few daysfrom time to time to make sure we haven t missed anything. so we probablywould have caught this omission. but we appreciate you noticing and notletting us forget! yes, the babes were given a good drink once they settledinto their new homes. when transplanting we like to use a "root drench" withkelp concentrate. folks have already heard us rave about the "magical"properties of kelp concentrate. about how it has a complete range ofmicronutrients and provides potassium. and how it also provides some niftyplant hormones. so we wont bore them with a complete recap. simply suffice

it to say that we like kelp at transplant time too!. we think it helps toease plant stress and generally provides a nice tonic for our babes. Ateaspoon of kelp concentrate per gallon of water provides a nice root drenchfor general use or folair feeding. two teaspoons per gallon is asignificantly stronger mix and is our preference for watering at transplanttime. after transplant the LUI s in their new homes got about 1.5 gallons ofthe kelp solution spread out between the 13 siblings.

LUI Day 26

today s shot.

071 LUI-Day-26

there is no real odor to these soils beyond a sort of general earthy aroma.the FFOF has a kind of a forest litter sort of smell but nothing strong. themushroom compost is darker and richer but didn t carry much scent at all.the perlite has a nasty white dust if it s not wet down and is actually themost bothersome of the bunch to work with.

DAY 27

though the plants appear to be looking great overall they did show some minor


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transplant stress. the mushroom compost/FFOF mix actually seems to be alittle bit rich in transition from the seedling mix. a couple of the babesshowed the slightest bit of burn on thier leaf tips. as these plants moved upin containers they also moved under a different light array. we ve got about300 watts of bright white fluorescent growlight at this stage. it s somethinga growing friend passed us recently in trade. a 6 x 54 watt T-5 4 Footfluorescent fixture. covering a 4 x 2.5 or 3 footprint that s somethinglike 27-32 watts per square foot. a couple of the plants show a slight signof heat stress on the leaves. it looks somewhat like a radiant heat/lightburn. this isn

t logical since these plants are actually short and squatexamples. they actually sit slightly below and further away from the lightsource than their siblings who show none of same "burn" symptoms. probablythis is a reaction to the stress of repotting. the lights were raised farenough that heat should not have been an issue. and siblings next to them andhigher than them in the canopy look perfect. so it s probably nothing ofconcern. likely we

ll give a light folair feeding tomorrow to ensurecontinued vigor. as you can see from the attached Day 27 pic. we are beingsomewhat hyper-critical. the plants look great at a glance. once these babesget over any stress associated with transplant. this will be the the stagewhere we expect most strains to really "beef up". the 5 quart containerssupport strong growth to more than a foot in height. and the strong whitelight will promote good vegetative growth and short internode length.

072 LUI-Day-27


yesterday was DAY 28 . . . due to a uncooperative camera battery and alimited schedule we don t have an "in progress" shot for this day (whichmarks the end of their fourth week). the battery is now fully charged. andsoon we ll be purchasing a back-up battery so this won t happen again sincethe babes were a little stressed from transplant we did raise our light arrayfor 24 hours. we only raised it a foot and lowered it again to a normalheight as soon as a day had passed. the 6 x 54 watt T-5 fluoro array is byfar the brightest fluorescent light we ve ever seen. so we decided to give

our freshly transplanted babes a lil break from the intense light. the lightswere raised part way through day 27 and lowered on day 28. our normal heightfor this light array is something in the range of 6" to 10" from plant canopy(depending on air circulation and room temp). so we raised the whole array upto about 18" for a day to give the babes a little break in intensity. we didwater with plain tap water yesterday. since the soil mix was a rich organicbase they should have plenty of available nutrients to support vigorousgrowth without any added nutrients for a watering or two. when we say "tapwater" we suppose we d better clarify. we re talking water from the coldwater tap that has been allowed to sit for a minimum of 24 hours. hot waterheaters tend to concentrate mineral content. so water from the hot water tapis avoided. we work hard to build and maintain healthy populations ofbeneficial microbes in our soil. so using water with chlorine isn t on our

agenda. that

s part of why we suggest that water sits at least 24 hoursbefore use. the chlorine gas which is dissolved in many water supplies willdisappear within 24 hours if allowed to sit uncovered. the other reason isto allow the water to moderate to room temperature. during the winterseason some tap water can come out cold enough to shock plants and theirroots. some nutrients become unavailable at colder temps so we try to usewater that

s near room temperature.EDIT - we want to add that letting the water sit on a cold cement floor isonly a little better than cold winter tap water in most cases. if your wateris standing on cold cement we suggest sitting it instead on a cheap plastic


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mat or similar insulation.

LUI Day 29

The LUI s are continuing to look great overall. strong growth has resumed andour babes are turning into little bushes! here

s one, and the same plant fromthe side.

073 LUI-Bush---Day-29074 LU---Day-29-Side

although they were just repotted a few short days ago. these bushy babes havealready pushed some nice looking roots to the sides of their planters.

075 LUI---Day-29-Roots

and a peak at the clones. they aren t looking like much but the work is goingon underground (hopefully!). some folks mist or spray their clones. or usehumidity domes. we just rely on the moisture held in the seedling mix.

076 LUI-Clones---Day-29

LUI Day 30

if you look back a page or two you see that they were all top cloned a fewdays back. each plant has 6 ver nice arms. some are more symmetrical thanothers. but all were cut back to the same node when top-cloned to make latercomparisons s easy. on feeding they ve been fairly normal. the mix of 50/50Mushroom Compost and FoxFarm OceanForest was a lil bit "hot" for them for aday or two after repotting. but they were growing great again in no time.and here s day 30.

077 LUI-Day-30

in this close-up folk can more clearly see the very minor leaf tip burn wementioned. they can also see the nice short internode length we re getting onthe new growth.

078 LUI-Day-30-Closeup

and finally for day 30 here

s a group portrait. here folk can see a littlemore of the leaf tip burn we referred to and some plants that express alittle bit what looks like radiant heat burn on portions of large fan leaves.looking back at our log and pics it appears that this likely occured the dayof transplant. some of these babes may have grown up a lil bit too close totheir light source the day of transplant. either way it s fairly minor damageand the plants are certainly not showing any lack of vigor today due to thissmall prior stress. we do watch our plants pretty closely. and we try ourbest to notice all the details. we

re determined to show all those details asbest we can. and a lil leaf tip burn and a tad bit of radiant heat burn on a

few odd fan leaves is evident. we

re just being honest.

079 LUI-Day-30-Group-Portrait

LUI Day 31

One month from popping their heads above the soil.

080 LUI-Day-31


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Here s a group shot of the LUI s. they are getting so big it s almost hard tocall them babes. they are turning into legitimate lil bushes. Day 31 careincluded a watering with Age Old Organics. 2 oz of Age Old Organics growformula and one heaping teaspoon of epsom salts were mixed with 4 gallons ofwater. we then added a tablespoon of molasses to the mix as a "sweetener" tohelp encourage the growth of beneficial microbes. the whole mix was shookvigorously. about 2 gallons of this were used to give our thirsty LUI s asweet frothy soothing drink.

081 LUI-Day-31-Group

here

s a little closer look at a clone on Day 31. fluorescent bulbs come witha variety of sizes and outputs. the T-5 bulbs are much smaller in diameterthan the "standard" T-12 Flouros. because they are smaller in diameter theycan be placed closer together to create a more intense and effectivefluorescent light array. the T-5 bulbs and fixtures are more expensive thanstandard fluoro fixtures & bulbs. but they offer increased efficiency andthey certainly give us better light penetration then standard fluoro bulbs.

082 LUI-Day-31-Clone

LUI Day 32 - Group Portrait

here

s the (no longer so lil) LUI

s. these babes are turning into quite the

bushy little plants. here

s a nice one. and pictured with an individual LUI@ Day 32 for perspective is a Gallon of FoxFarm GrowBig fert. it

s not ourfavorite fert and we honestly believe that the Age Old Organics and EarthJuice are superior products. but it s something we purchased a while back totry and we do use it once in a great while when the mood strikes. we mix theFFGB at the rate of 1 TBSP per gallon. the thirsty girls in our garden soakedup about 2 gallons on Day 32. in keeping with our standard practice ofproviding "ad copy". here s what the Fox Farm ad wizards say. FOXFARM GROWBIG Works fast to encourage lush, vegetative plant growth by providing anextra boost of nitrogen (12-7-7) and important trace minerals. Huge plants ina hurry! Spectacular green growth which leads to larger, brighter flowers. Acomplete, organic-based liquid plant food blended from blood meal, earthwormcastings, and Norwegian kelp. Suitable for all plant types as a foliar or

soil fertilizer. One-two tbsps. per gallon.

083 LUI-Day-32-Group084 LUI-Day-32

LUI Day 33

Here they are on day 33. no additional care today. we just admired thebeauties and gave them encouragment.

085 LUI-Day-33

LUI Day 34

these babes are growing like weeds. everyday we go to the garden the growthis visible and obviously apparent. the vigor of these plants is certainlyimpressive. as for DutchMasterZ s comment that they are ready to be forced.we agree that they are certainly at the point where they could be moved tobloom. if we were in a hurry we could have moved them to bloom at about day31 or 32. we

re letting them go a little longer for 2 reasons. the first ispersonal preference. the second reason is simply practical circumstance.first off our preference is to veg our plants a little bit longer than theaverage grower. we re usually rewarded with above average yields as well.


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getting a few days extra veg growth can increase yields by ensuring plantshave a strong well developed root system and also a few extra nodes ofgrowth. circumstance also dictates that the LUI s wait a few more daysbefore their move to HPS light and a 12/12 light cycle. we did notanticipate that the LUI s growth was going to be quite this explosive.there is no room in our bloom room for them yet. even if we felt the LUI

swere ready to bloom. the rest of the garden isn t ready for them the LUI swere a thirsty bunch on day 34. we gave them a drink of about 2 gallons ofwater total between the bunch. since they ve grown to a pretty good sizeand are in 5 quart containers. we

ll anticipate that they will need to bewatered every day from now until they get transplanted into larger planters.

086 LUI-Day-34

allrighty . . . time to answer some questions . . .

part of the reason for chosing to move our plants from the 4 1/2" pots to 5quart containers instead of their ultimate destination is spaceconsiderations. if we moved them straight to 3 or 5 gallon containers theywould take up more space in veg than we prefer to devote. normally thepattern is to move from the 5 qt buckets to our 2 x3 containers with 2 or3 plants per container. since the LUI

s are not sexed this isn

t so simple.the 3 gallon or 5 gallon buckets they will move into are really acompromise.

Artful . . . this was actually a very good observation. if room allowedthere d be no reason to have the intermediate 5 qt buckets. and we d be ableto transplant directly into 3 or 5 gallon planters. a transplant from 4 1/2"container to 3 gallon planter would be a fine move. as for your particularplants Artful. don t think of them so much as on a time table but insteadwatch them and observe their growth. when they are 12" to 16" high then it stime to start thinking about a move to bloom. that s also somewhat dependenton how much the plants streeeetch too. to answer your question more directly.basically we d forget about time your plants sat and didn t grow. think ofthem as almost new babes from the point you started feeding them and theystarted growing again.

as for the questions from 23 . . . we

ll have to look back on the calendarto be sure. but it s around two weeks now on the clones and they are allstill alive. we re planning on shooting some clone pics tonight. some cloneslook better than others (as is usual) but it looks as though all will surviveand eventually thrive. the clones sit as "back-ups" and will continue veggingwhile their parents grow out. the very first grow on a plant doesn t alwaysindicate it s full potential so we ll be watching and noting differences. aswe make decisions on keepers the process will continue. after one grow weusually eliminate 1/2 of the girls and cull the ones we don t like as much.we ll top clone again and repeat the process with another grow (or two) untilwe ve found our final keeper(s). we expect that we will transplant all ofthese babes before moving to bloom. moving them to bloom first and onlytransplanting the females is certainly a good alternative option . but since

we reuse our soil we don

t lose anything (but a lil time) by transplantingthem all. since we have back-up clones on the whole bunch. we can simply cullmales after they show sex and compost the plant remains. if we decide laterwe want any LUI male pollen for a breeding project the back-ups will bewaiting.

and last but not least - the alfalfa tea question. yes we

d planned on usingsome as a foliar feed and and for a root drench too. but the alfalfa has agrowth stimulant and these babes are growing like weeds! we re alreadyconcerned they will be a lil taller then we prefer when moved


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to bloom so giving them an additional growth stimulant seemed redundant.

LUI Day 35

Our LUI s at Day 35 continue to show strong growth. they were watered again(more lightly) with plain water for a second consecutive night.

087 LUI-Day-35088 LUI-Day-35-Group-Portrait

knowledgequestMar 4, 2006, 02:22 PMhere s a peak at one of our LUI clones. looks as though they are rootingfine.

089 LUI-Clone

it

s interesting that someone mentioned sparse undergrowth. actually it

svery good timing since we did a little pruning last night and the exactpurpose was to avoid similar problems. let us explain. when we top clonedthese babes we left 3 pairs of branches on each plant. some plants haveresponded to the topping/pruning by growing 6 strong arms. but some othershave only grown 4 significant branches with two branches that are smallerand are more than just undergrowth. our experience is that smaller lower

"sucker" branches contribute little. the do not recieve enough light to besignificant resources for photosynthesis. and they do not generally produceany significant yield after harvest either. in fact all the stem growth thatgoes into these "sucker" branches can actually sap plant resources. thislowers final total yield. adding insult to injury is the fact that the budsthat are produced on these lower branches tend to be of a lower quality aswell. in the first pruning pic we see a plant with a couple of weak arms thatare only going to detract from her final production. so we take correctiveaction with our pruning shears in pictures 2,3 and 4. the final pruning shotbetter illustrates what was removed.

090 LUI-Undergrowth-1091 LUI-Undergrowth-2

092 LUI-Undergrowth-3093 LUI-Undergrowth-4094 LUI-Undergrowth-5

there certainly is some difference between plants grown from seed and thosepropigated from clones in terms of their structure and growth patterns. we vefound that trimming of undergrowth is even more necessary with our clonedbabes. but your mileage may vary. our timing for this pruning is deliberate.we normally do this ritual removal of "sucker" branches about a week before aplant is rotated into bloom. these babes are growing fast. so it won t belong before they are forced to flower. the LUI s were originally "on thecalendar" in our minds for a move to bloom about this time next week. ourgarden is in constant motion with a few plants going into the bloom room and

other

s being harvested on a pretty regular rotation. with the LUI

s growingso fast it ll be interesting to see how we manage this "problem". undergrowthcan be pruned at any time. there are a couple of times it seems to makeparticular sense to us. we generally will prune about a week before movingour babes into flowering and then do some "touch up" again a week or twolater. throughout bloom we ll keep an eye on this lower stem area and keeppruning "suckers". the pruning we did is small enough that it is not veryvisable except from those lower branch shots of the undergrowth. from abovethose branches were completely shaded by the other branch s aggressivegrowth. to illustrate the difference between individual plants the developed


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4 strong branches and those that formed 6 strong limbs we re including acomparrison pic. the plant on the left had 4 strong arms and had someundergrowth pruned. the plant on the right developed 6 good limbs and didn trequire any pruning at this time.

095 LUI---L4R6

Quick question: those branches you

ve just cut off, can they be cloned, andget new plants out of them, or are only "suckers" to be used, for clones?. . . DD . . .

they sure could be used for clones. absolutely! that

s a great point andwe re glad you brought it up. since these babes haven t been sexed yet andit appears we have a rooted "back-up" clone for each. so there was no needto take any more clones here at this time. using these smaller suckerbranches for clones is a great method to propagate more of a particularplant ready to move to bloom without much effecting it s final yield. we d belooking to do exactly that if any of our numbered back-up clones had failedto root. our trimmings from this stage will get composted back into our soilre-mixes. our general rule of thumb is to compost all old fan leaves and allveg trimmings. this way no garden trash ever exits the grow area and it salso an effective way to recycle the nutrients contained in the plant refusesometimes it pains us to "throw away" perfectly good cuttings. but we do havelimit our plant numbers.

LUI Day 36 and friends

Here s a Day 36 shot. we caught some of our garden helpers in action. thegnomes are the real secret to our success. at least since the Hobbits movedout. and a closer look at a growing tip to show the internode length.

096 LUI-Day-36-and-friends097 LUI-Day-36-Branch

I have a simple question...will you be keeping the plants grow from seeds asa mother. Or will you use one of the clones as a mother? And why?

we

ll be blooming the originals from seed and keeping the "back-up" clones aspotential mums and dads for any "keeper" plants. they why is simple. theparent and clone are identical in terms of genetics. the original parentsfrom seed are already maturing and are at the size to be bloomed. so in termsof efficiency it just makes sense to bloom the original. the clones willcontinue to grow as their parent s flower. they will be ready to bemother/father plants in their own right by the time the originals are doneblooming. we can

t make selections based on quality until we see the endproduct anyway.

LUI Day 37

another day and more visible growth from the LUI . since they are growing so

quickly and with such vigor we again used just plain water. a balanced growfert would have been appropiate but these girls just don t need any extraencouragement.

098 LUI-Day-37099 LUI-Day-37-Sea-of-LUI

we missed getting in pics or posts on Day 38. sorry about that. life happenseven for birds. the plants did get one more drink of plain water during Day38. we could have used any of our standard grow fertilizers again but chose


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not to. since these babes are already as tall as we want when we move plantsinto bloom. we didn

t want to encourage any further vegetative growth. todayis day 39 and later today we plan a transplant into 3 gallon planters and amove to the bloom room. we should have pics of all that later.

in terms of when we first feed from above. it

s just by watching the plantsnot a specific day. and that s generally true with everything. we grow basedon the plant

s progress and needs rather than any artificial timetable. wemade the move to bloom today. this included a transplant to 3 gallon plantersand a move to the 12/12 light cycle under HPS lights. details and pics shouldfollow if time allows.

LUI Day 39 - the backup clones

first we wanted to give the "teaser". we had 100% success with our LUIback-up clones and want to show them off first. the LUI ap

3lb seed to weeeeed

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