9 5 12 cr12-2025 063341 0204 74 page morning portion transcript by lynn stubbs 0204 full ocr a9...

7/28/2019 9 5 12 CR12-2025 063341 0204 74 Page Morning Portion Transcript by Lynn Stubbs 0204 Full Ocr a9 Reduced

1/74

1 IN THE JUSTICE COURT OF THE STATE O F NEVADA

2 IN AND OR THE COUNTY O F WASHOE

3 THE HONORABLE PETER J. SFERRAZ ZA, JUSTICE OF THE PEACE

4

5

6 THE STATE OF NEVADA,

7

8

9

10

11

12

3

14

15

16

1 7

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9

20

21

22

Plaintiff, Case No RCR2011- 06 33 41

vs Dept No. 2

ZACHARY BARKER COUGHLIN

Defenant

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

JAVS MISDEMEANOR TRIAL

Wednesday, September 5, 20 12

APPEARANCES:

For the Plaintiff:

For the Defendant

ZA C YOUNG, ESQ.Deputy district attorneyOne South Sierra StreetReno, Nevada 89520

JAMES LESLIE, ESQ.Deputy Public DefenderP O. Box 11130Reno Nevada 89520

23 (JAVS ELECTRONICALLY RECORDED)

24 Transcribed by EVELYN J. STUBBS

1


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1 I N D E X

2 WITNESS:

3 NICHOLAS DURALDE

4

5

6

7

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. YOUNG

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR LESLIE

8 E X H I B I T S

9 NO.

0 MARKED PREVIOUSLY

11

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17

18

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20

21

22

23

24

Marked Admitted

2

PAGE

10

26


3/74

.

1 RENO NEVADA WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 5, 20 12; 10 03 A. M

0-2

3

4

5

6

TE CORT M. Coglin, w do av a copy of

codings of pocdings W can fnis i o

yo a no cos. T answ is no, yo canno cod

bcas w av official cod And will insc

8 a yo g an adio

9

0

TE DEFENDANT

TE CORT

Tank yo, si

a no cos o yo.

11 TE DEFENDANT Tank yo si

12 THE COURT: All rigt. W lft off -- I'm trying

13 o find my nos fom las im

14 MR. LESLE Yo ono, bfo w g going

15 do av a prliminary mattr, wnvr yo wis to ar

16 i

17

18

19

TE CORT

MR. LESLE

TE CORT

Wll l m s -

S.

find y nos. Okay W ad

20 Nicholas Duralde testify, Nathaniel Zarate, and then Cory

21 Gobl. And m no s if Sa don' bliv

22 Sa addssd is.

23 MR YONG Yo ono, av w fomally calld

24 cas y?

3


4/74

1 THE CORT Ys, w v. Tis is h m of

2 State of Nevada versus Zachary Barker Couglin, Couglin

3

4

(pononcing) , Im soy. I is Dpmn 2 cs,

20 11-0 6 3 3 4 1, n i is h conin il. An h

5 chgs py lcny, on con, n possssion of

6 soln popy, scon con.

8

MR YONG Thnk yo, Yo Hono

Th S hs no s. Offic Dl o

9 Dl (pononcing) , xcs m, sifi h wih

10 spc o h moion o sppss, whic his Co

11 gn in p n ni in p, ffcivly

12 An so wih spc o h il, h only wo

13 winsss h v sifi fo S in h Ss

14 cs in chif is M Z n M. Gobl.

15 Offic Dl i psn n y o sify

16 wi spc - s i pins o il.

1 TH CORT Wll, I hink h Co i inic

18 h ls hing h I wol incopo, by

19 rfrnc, ll of his prior tstimony t t motion to

20 suppress and this was to be supplemental testimony.

21 MR YONG An I cll h ws n ob jcion

22 o h. I hv Officr Drl hr ry o sify o

23 h cs. So S's y o go fow.

24 (No coing fom 10: 0 0: 48 m. )

4


5/74

1 THE COURT: All rght I wl state on the

2 record that the Court has mde a determnaton that any

3 potental conflict of nterest that exists n ths cse

4 between Mr. Lesle nd Mr Coughln does not rse to the

5 level that it would deny Mr. Coughlin hs Sxth Amendment

6 rght to be reresented by counsel.

7 And further I fnd that Mr. Lesle hs done more

8 thn n adequate job n representing Mr. Coughlin in these

9 proceedngs to dte nd will contnue to do so to the

10

11

12

13

14

concluson of tril. So

THE DEFENDANT Your Honor?

THE COURT: Mr. Young

'm sorry Your Honor f I myTHE DEFENDANT:

just nter ject quckly If there was somethng I sd

15 earler that consttuted n ex-parte communction to the

16 Court may ameliorte that now with the Courts

1 7 ndulgence

THE COURT: I wll ameliorate t.18

19 Mr Coughln did n closed proceedng, suggest

20 that one of the wtnesses in ths trial was prvy to

21 tpe-recording or a video of prt of the incident tht

22 occurred on tht dy, and that tht ws Mr Zrte. Is

23 that correct?

24 THE DEFENDANT If I may Your Honor Ill

5


6/74

E COU: Wel, orry Wa t r. Zarate?

2 E DEFENDAN: No, . And don't beleve

youre referrng to te ncdent te partclar

4 ncdent Im referrng to.

5 E COU: ere' a dfferent ncdent?

6 . ESIE: I tnk e talkng ould I

clarfy? Would you lke me to c arfy?

8 E COU: Yea, f t a notng to do wt

9 t tral.

10 . ESE: don't tnk t a anytng to do

wt t tral

12 E COU: Okay. Well, you can clarfy ten f

1 you want

. ESE14 t an alleged ncdent were one

15 of te wtnee flcked a cgarette at r. Cougln.

16

17

8

E COU: But not at t

R ES E: No

on t date?

E COU: at wat were talkng about,

19 r. Young, and tat came out, blurted out by r. Cougln,

20 tat e wa upet tat r ele ad not brougt tat to

2 te attenton of te Court.

22 . YOUN: So long a te Court' I don't

2 tnk you wl o ong a te Court not gong to

24 conder tat, nce t not evdence n t cae.

6


7/74

1 THE COURT

2 i was mproper -

3

4

MR YOUNG

THE COURT

Well, I advsed hm a tha tme that

Thank you

-- o do that, and, you know I would

5 no be consderng n hs rial

6

7

MR YOUNG

THE COURT

Thank you

-- unless was presented n the

8 tral iself and was no obeced o and was allowed to be

9 heard So And, frankly I didn' have an

10 understanding of what t was untl us now

11

12

13 Duralde

14

All rght

MR YOUNG

THE COURT

Did you want to call your wtness?

Yes. State wll call Officer

Jus for the record, I wll swear you

15 again I know you're probably stll under oath, but will

16 ou rase your rght hand

17 (Witness sworn )

8

9

THE COURT

MR LESLIE:

20 another pad of paper.

Please be seated

Your Honor, 'm gvng Mr Coughlin

21 THE COURT: All right.

22 Well, Mr Coughln, jus o clarfy ths for he

23 record, wha I had insruced you o do previously was to

24 type it on your compuer, show t to Mr. Lesle at the


8/74


9/74

1 take a five-minute recess at the conclusion of

2 Mr Duralde' cro-examination

THE DEFENDANT: Thank you, ir

4 THE COURT: You will ave five minutes, which I

5 think hould be more than ufficient time to how it to

6

7

Mr Lelie

to grant it.

And if he need more time, I would be happy

All right? But let' move on Right now

8 you're not to interrupt the proce

9

10

THE DEFENDANT: Ye, ir

MR LESLIE: Your Honor, I dont mean to beat a

11 dead hore, and it eem like nothing in thi cae goe

12 quickly, but I will ay thi: I appreciate the Cours

1 comment, becaue I think they will aist me in eing a

14 beter lawyer in thee proceeding without contantly

15 being interrupted and ditracted

6 I will ay thi, though, I actually do invite

17 Mr. Coughlin to ean over and wh sper f he has questions.

18 All I ask is that if I indicate to him to hold on a moment

19 o I can liten, that he honor that Other than that,

20 though, I don't have an objection to him whispering or

21 pushing me notes during, you know, any prtion during the

22 witness examination, as long as he will respect at times I

23 need to waive him off so I can listen, and then he and I

24 can confer.

9


10/74

THE COURT: Well, that's fair.1

2 MR LESLIE: So I dont want hi to feel that he

3 can't talk to me.

4

5

THE COURT:

Mr. Leslie, not you

Im leavng t in the discretion of

So f he pushes you of, then yoll

6 have to honor that, but yo will have the opportunity

7 again at the conclsion of the cross-examination.

8 right?

9

10

11

2

13

THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir

THE COURT: All right Mr Yong.

MR YOUNG: Thank you, Your Honor.

NICHOLAS DURALDE,

All

14 previosly called as a witness by the plaintiff heein,

15 being first dly sworn, was examned

6 and testfed as follows:

17 DIREC T EXAM NATION (Resmd)

8 BY MR YOUNG:

19 Q Good morning, sir Coud yo state your irst

20 and last name and spell both for the recording

21 A Nicholas Dralde.

22 last name, D-U-R-AL-D-E

23 MR. YOUNG

24 recorded, yes?

Okay

First name, N-I-C-H-O-LA-S,

And, Yor Hono, this is beng

10


11/74

E CU: Yes

YUNG: hank you

1

2

3

4

E CU: Let m try to raise it h, youre

standing up Im sorry I do apologize I didnt know

5 that you werent in the chair

6 YUNG: I didnt know you were standing

7 eithe

8 E CU: Well, he was way down in

9 the (inaudible) bottom

10

11

LESLIE:

E CU:

I do the same thing

It wasnt meant to be that

12 honest with you, you were so low down in he box

13 BY YUNG

o be

14 Q Sir, could you tell the Cout with whom you

15 currently employe?

16

1

18

1

A

Q

A

Q

he eno Police Depatment

How ong have you been so employed?

Appoximately ive ad a hal yeas

Could you tell the Cout the trainings that you

20 did to become an officer from -

21 A I participatd in a 19week PS academy and

22 after graduating that went to a 16-week field taining

23 program

24 E CU: Im sorry, what kind o taining?

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12/74

1

2

HE WINESS

THE COUR:

Field training program

Oh, fied I just didn't hear.

3 BY MR YOUNG:

4

5

Q

A

What did the field training consist of?

The trainee offcer is coup ed with a tenured

6 training officer who basica ly works from the training

7 officer, observing to, by the end of the training program,

8 the trainee officer is tracking all tasks relative to the

9 job.

10

11

12

HE COUR: Did you say "ten year or "teure"?

THE WINESS: Tenured

HE C OUR enured, okay.

13 BY MR. YOUNG

4

15

16

Q

A

Q

And did you graduate or pass the P OST academy?

Yes.

And did you pass or graduat from this field

17 training program?

18

19

A

Q

Yes

In the five and a haf years as an officer, have

20 you received updated trainings throughout that time?

21

22

A

Q

23 well?

24 A

Yes

Okay And have you passed al those trainings as

Yes.

12


13/74

Q Okay Sir, I'm going to direct your attention o1

2 August 20th of 2011. Were you working on that night, on

3 that day?

4

5

A

Q

6 court?

7

8

9

A

Q

A

Yes

And did something happen which brings you here to

Yes

Could you tell the Judge what was that, please

Initially I was dispatched to a report of a

10 disturbance or possible fight in the area of the paza at

11 First and Virginia Streets . While I was driving there

12 dispatch updated us saying that larceny of a phone had

13 occurred

14 Q The ocation that you just described, is tha

15 here in Reno?

16

17

18

19

A

Q

Q

Yes

Washoe County, Nevada?

Yes

And so that being the area of 10 North Virginia

20 Street and 1 North Center Street; is that correct?

21

22

A

Q

Yes

And could you tell the Court as far as landmarks

23 here, so the Judge is familiar, what area of town you're

24 talking about?

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14/74

1 A Tht p s bodeed on one sde by the Tuckee

Rive on the south side by the Tuckee Rive noth side

3 by Fist Steet on the west side by Vigini Steet on

4 the est sde by Noth Cente Steet

5 Q

6 scene?

7

8

9

A

Q

A

Oky

Yes

Oky

When you ved -- dd you ve on

And wht dd you see o notce?

When I ved thee ws goup of people on the

10 Cente Steet bdge

11 Q Thts f d dsptch dvse you of

1 specfc subect o gve you descpton of specfc

1 subect

14

15

16

17

A

Q

A

Q

Yes

- tht ws the sub ject of the cll?

Yes

Oky And dd ou see n ndvdul mtch ng

18 tht descpton?

Yes

Oky

Yes

s tht peson n the coutoom tody?

19

0

1

A

Q

A

Q Could you tell the Judge pont out wht he's

weng tody

4 A M Coughln ws tht peson

14

He's weng


15/74

1 bege su t

MR YOG:

THE CORT:

Oky Your Honor --

The record wll reflect the

4 identifction of the defendnt, Mr Coughlin

5 BY MR YOG:

6 Q Oky d you hve ny contct wth

7 Mr Coughln?

8

9

10

A

Q

A

Yes

Oky Could you tell the Court how tht begn?

The frst thng recll syng to Mr Coughln

11 ws tht f he hd someones phone tht he cou probbly

1 gve the phone bc n the whole ssue would be settle

1 t tht tme

14

15

16

17

Q

A

Q

A

Oy

Yes

An Mr Coughln respon to you?

Wht dd he sy?

He se e h enough normton o

18 Terry stop

19

0

Q Wht hppene next, sr? Well, let me -- let me

stre tht queston d you ultmte wthout tellng

1 us wht -- specificlly wht others told you, id you hve

the opportunity to meet with other individuls on scene?

4

A

Q

Yes

o you recll the nmes of those ndvduls?

15


16/74

1

2

A

Q

Yes Coy Goble n thn Zte

Oky An they gve you nomton, gn,

without giving specifics, which assisted you in your

4 investigation?

5

6

A

Q

Yes

All ght wll sk you ethe o them tol

7 you a specifc location of one of their phones?

8

9

10

11

12

A

Q

A

Q

A

Yes

An o you ecll who tht ws?

ecll both

Oky An wht ws tht locton?

Tht locton -- t ws stte tht M Goble's

1 phone ws in the efennt's left font shots pocket.

14

15

16

Q An he?

MR LESL E:

MR YOG:

Obecton hesy

An 'm only usng tht, You Hono,

1 not o the tuth, but just to estbsh wht ws one

18 next s pt o the eect on the hee s pt o the

19 nvestgton An m skng you not to conse hs

20 testmony n tht eg o tuth o the mtte

21

22 wht?

2

24

TH CORT:

MR YOG:

THE CORT:

Hs testmony n tht eg s to

m soy?

Hs - not conse hs testmony o

16


17/74

1 wht pupse?

3

4

5

MR YOG: I sked wht -- wht ws -- wht he

ws dvsed And he dvsed he eclled bth syng --

TH CORT: Well I hed --

MR YOG: -- the phne ws n M Cughlns

6 left fnt shts pcket

7 TH CORT: But wht s the pupse f tht

8 testmny?

9 MR YOG: Well ts gng t shw wht he

0 subsequentl dd s pt f ths nvestgtn

TH CORT: All ght S t's -1

MR YOG: ffect n hee essentlly Yu

1 Hn

4 TH CORT: All ght Then I'm gng t

15 veule the b jectn

16 BY MR YOG:

7 Q S wht ws -- ws M Cughln ultmtely

18 pced nt hndcus?

19

0

1

A

Q

A

cmmnds

3 Q

Yes

And f wht pupse ws tht?

M Cughln ws vey hestnt t llw

Oky All ght w gettng bck t yu

4 nvestgtn egdng phne dd yu tke ny ctns

17


18/74

to detemne whethe o not M. Coughln, n ct, hd

2 M Goble's phone?

3

4

A

Q

5 those?

6 A

Yes

And wht ctons wee those o wht steps wee

I stood ne M Coughln nd I clled the phone

7 numbe tht M Goble hd given me, his phone numbe.

Q And so M Goble gve you -- when you sy, "hs

9 phone numbe, M Goble's phone numbe?

10

11

A

Q

12 hppened?

13

14

1

16

17

1

A

Q

A

Q

Yes

Oky And when you clled tht numbe, wht

I coud he the phone vbtng

Oky Fom whee?

Fom the e o M Coughln's let ont

d you, o lck o bette wod

TH CORT: You hed the phone o phone?

TH WTSS: hed phone

19 BY MR YOG:

Q Oky And ths pont hd you - hd nybody20

21 dented phone s M Gobles phone to you? n othe

22 wods, hd you seen M Gobe's phone t ths unctue?

23 A o

24 Q Oky Hd M Coughln hnded you ove ny phone

1


19/74

idetified as M. Goble's phoe?

2

3

A

Q

o

So you ead a phoe Was that was what you

4 heard concealed on Mr . Coughlin's person or out in the

ope?

6

9

A

Q

A

Q

Cocealed o hs peso

d you stop callg that phoe umbe?

Yes

Ad aga, whe you temated, fo lack of a

10 bette wod, that phoe call, dd you otce aythg

A Yes. Whe I teated the phoe call the

2 vbatg stopped

Okay. At that juctue what happeed?3

4

Q

A At that juctue I detemed that M Coughl

was possesso of M. Goble's phoe

Q Okay Ad you dd what?6

17

A pced hm ude st

Q Okay Ad the what? I othe wods, dd you

9 take ay steps to eteve the phoe o a phoe?

20 A Yes. Pefomed a seach cdet to aest of

2 M Coughl ad took the phoe that had bee the left

22 fot pocket out of the pocket

23 Q Okay d you specfcally each ad gab

24 that phoe?

9


20/74

1

2

A

Q

es

Oky Dd Mr Coughln t ny tme hnd the

3 phone over to you?

4

6

A

Q

A

Q

o

Oky

es

And he ws under rrest t ths juncture?

When you sy, serch ncdent to rrest, " could

you descrbe to the Court wht tht s

9 A A serch ncdent to rrest s n rrest - 'm

10 sorry, serch ter someone's been tken nto custody

11 We know tht they're beng trnsported to the jl nd we

12 tke everythng out o ther pockets to ssure they hve

13 nothng llegl or nythng tht cn be used gnst n

14 ocer tht's trnsportng them

15 Q Pror to your securng or seng te phone ter

16 hs rrest, hd you t ny tme gone nto Mr Coughln's

17 pockets pror to tht tme?

1

19

20

21

A

Q

A

Q

o

As prt o the serch, men?

o

Oky Dd you tke ny steps to determne whose

22 phone tht ws?

23

24

A

Q

es

Wht dd you do?

20


21/74

The phne had a passwd n i I asked1

2

3

Gble f the passwd He was unable t pvide

4 Heasay

6

LELIE

THE COU

LELIE

Im ging bjec, Yu Hn

Tha he asked?

ell, Yu Hn, anything that

7 Gble says wuld be heasay

9

1

11

12 heading

13

14

YOUG That's fine

LELIE I mean I --

THE COUT ll igh ell, I -

LEI think thas whee we ae

THE COUT -- will susain

LLI nd Im ying be

1 cntempaneus

16 TH COUT he jectin ha Gble

17 said, bu nt as t wha he ffice said

1

19

LELI ight

YUG nd thats fine, Yu Hn

2 BY YOUG

21Q

Did yu ake seps detemine whethe nt

22 ha phne hat yu seized ut f Mr Cughin's pcke

23 was in fact Gbles phne?

24 Yes

21


22/74

1

2

3

4

6

7

9

10

Q

A

Lack f

Hnr

Okay. ere

Yes.

LLI:

fundatn.

YOUG:

. LLI:

TH COUT:

YOUG:

TH COUT:

yu able t ake that determnatn?

Im gng t bect, Yu Hnr.

If I can, a

Cals fr an ultmate cnclusn

ell

art f hs nvestgatn, Yur

Okay. I wl sustan the bectn

as t the cncusn, but nt as t whether r nt takng

12 steps t determne wh the wner was. And I guess he can

13 questn as t what steps he tk and

14 . Y OUG: Culd I apprach and cllect xhbts

1 ether A and B r 1 and 2, whatever they ae?

16

17 I d

TH COUT: ure I dnt knw f I have them.

8 Are these the exhbts yu're takng abut?

19

20 admtted

21

22 suppress

YOUG:

TH COUT:

23 BY . YOUG:

Yes. And these have prevusy been

They were admtted at the mtn t

24 Q As part f yur nvestgatn n determnng r

22


23/74

,

1 taking steps to determine i f the phone you recovered was

2 Mr Gobles, did you take photogaphs o f the phone that

3 you recoverd?

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

A

Q

Yes

Okay. Taking a look at Exhibits A and B, that

have een admitted Do you recognize those photographs?

A

Q

A

Q

A

Q

Yes

What are those, sir?

Those are photographs o f the phone

Who took those?

I did

Okay. And those is that the phone in question

13 that we're talking about?

14

15

A

Q

Yes

Okay What did you do with that phone at the

16 conclusion of your investigaion?

17 A I completed a photo release certi ficate, where

18 documented the phone by phoographing it and then gave it

19 back to Mr Goble.

20 Q Okay. And are those pictures true and accurate

21 photographs of the phone that you collected?

22

23

24

A

Q

A

Yes

So it was returned to Mr. Goble?

Yes

23


24/74

ee yu -- wha was yu aie ha nigh?

In a full plce unifm

2

3

Q

A

Q Okay And yu aived dive up he scene

4 cec in a pal ca?

5 A Yes

6 Q as ha a maked pal ca?

Yes i was7

8

A

Q Idenifying i as a en lice Depamen

9 vehicle?

0

2

3

A

Q

A

Q

Yes

Lighs n p?

Yes

And he whle nnes? Okay

4 Cughlin hand yu his phne?

A any me did

5

6

7

8

9

A

Q A any ime did Cughlin indicae yu ha

he had a phne? In he wds Gbes phne?

A

Q And ha was a bad quesin A any ime did

20 Cughlin advise yu ha he had Gbles phne?

2

22

A

Q

I'm n sue if yu emembe le us knw Abu

23 frm he ime yu arrived n scene unil he ime f

24 Mr. Cughlin's arres can yu esimae hw lng we're

24


25/74

1 talking?

2

3

4

A

Q

clear.

would estimate ive minutes.

Okay And just want to make sure that 'm

You advised that when you called the number that

5 was Mr Goble's number that was provided to you, you said

6 that it was - how do you know it was vbrating?

7 know f qute caught that.

A

Q

could hear it

Okay.

MR. YOUNG: Thats all, Your Honor

Thank you, Officer.

THE COURT: Mr. Leslie

don't

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

MR. LESL E: Court's ndulgence, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Yeah.

MR LESL E: 'm just going to confer with

16 Mr Coughlin real quck.

17 Thank you, Your Hono just wanted to talk to

18 Mr. Coughlin before starting the cross-examination

19

20

THE COURT:

MR. LESLE:

All right

Your Honor, do you ob ject to me

21 sttng whle examine the witness?

22

23

24 III

THE COURT:

MR. LESLE:

No, do not

Thank you, Judge

25


26/74

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION

2 BY MR LESLIE:

3 Q Officer, you indicated that you were originally

4 dispatched to what you described as a disturbance or a

5 possible fight; is that correct?

A Yes.6

7 Q And that before you arrived on scene dispatch

8 updated you and said that it might have something to do

9 with the larceny of a phone?

Yes10

11

A

Q Do you recall testfying previously at the motion

12 to suppress?

Yes13

14

15

16

A

Q

A

And that was last week?

Yes.

Q And my notes reflect that all you said at that

17 point with regard to the update on the numerous occasions

18 that both counsel asked you about the updated information

19 from dispatch was that the update was that it ight be a

20 larceny . Do you recall that?

21 A I don't.

22 Q So you said back at the suppression hearing that

23 the update information from dspatch was that it might

24 involve a larceny, but you're saying today for the first

26


27/74

1 time that dspatch told you it mght nvolve the larceny

2 of a phone?

3

4

A

Q

Yes

Okay So your testimony changed from the time of

5 the suppression hearing last week to today in that regard?

6

7

A

Q

Yes.

Do you have any reason to protect yourself in

8 ths case by making sure ths case results in a conviction

9 so that you don't get sued based on threats that

10 Mr. Coughlin may have made?

11

12

13

14

15

A

Q

No

You're aware that he's made such threats?

MR. YOUNG: I'm ust going to object, not to the

question but threats to who? It may be a vague queston

MR LESLIE: I can clarfy.

16 BY MR LESLIE:

17 Q You're aware that Mr. Coughlin has prevously

18 ndcated the possibilty of flng suit based on his

19 perception of how he was treated with regard to the

20 contact you had with him that night?

21

22

23

24

A

Q

A

Q

I honestly don't recall that.

Youve not been made aware of that?

I don't recall it.

So you don't recall whether anybody made you

27


28/74

1 aware of that?

No2

3

A

Q So they could have made you aware of that, you

4 just don't recall that at this time; is that -

No5

6

A

Q is that possible? Im trying to nal down

7 whether youre saying I was told about that, but I don't

8 remember it or Ive never been told about that or I have

been told about that Coud you help carfy that for us?9

10 A If any threats had been made, a lawsuit aganst

mysef reference my contact wth Mr Coughln Im no

12 aware of it

3 Q Okay And you indcted when you first arrived

14 on scene - and some of ths may be redundant to what yu

5 testfied to last week - thank you

6 Pardon me.

TH CRT

18 BY MR LSLI:

No robem

9 Q You indicated when you arrved on scene that you

20 were uniformed?

A

Q

Yes

You had a gun --

Yes.

2

22

23

24

A

Q that was vsble to the publc?

28


29/74

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

9

10

11

12

13

14

A

Q

A

Q

A

Q

A

Q

A

Q

A

Q

A

Q

es.

o arrived in a marked police car?

es

With ights and sirens?

My lights and sirens werent active in the day

Bt I mean they are on the vehicle?

hey are on the vehicle yes.

And youre R PD, is it?

es

So its the black and white police car?

es

Recognizable to the pblic as a police car?

es

kay Now when you first arrived on scene, you

15 got out of your vehicle, and I believe oe of the first

16 things yo noticed was a large grop of people surrounding

17 Mr. Coughlin?

1

19

A

Q

es.

And I think we established that that was anywhere

20 from, in yor estimation, to 12 people ranging in age

21 from a parent to teenagers to early 20s?

22

23

24

A

Q

A

es

And they were agitated?

es.

29


30/74

1 Q Tey appeaed o be angy o osle owads

2 M Cougln fom wa you ould ell?

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

A

Q

sdes?

A

Q

wn

em?

A

I

es

And ey wee effevely suoundng m on all

es

Some of em were seaed nex o m vey lose

nk you ndaed sx o eg nes some of

es He was sng down and on ee sde of

11 m was someone sng nex o m

12 Q kay And was anyone bend m?

14

A

Q

o

Was ee any alng o any obsuon bend

15 m a would ave pevened m jus leavng n a

16 deon bend m?

17

18

A

Q

He was sng on a alng

kay. And e was sng n su a way a e

19 was down lowe an e people wo wee sandng?

20

21

A

Q

es

kay And so e alng e was sng on I

22 nk you sad was ony abou 8 nes off e gound?

2

24

A

Q

es

kay And so jus o knd of afy wa 'm

30


31/74

askng about wth regard to anythng beng behnd hm; was

2 there any obstructon, ralng, wall, et cetera, behnd

3 hm as he sat n that poston?

4 A There was nothng behnd hm The street was

5 behnd him other than the ralng he was sttng on

6 Q Okay And were there any of these young people

7 postoned behnd hm?

8

9

A

Q

No

Okay And then some of tem were standng wthn

0 a foot or two of hm?

A I don't recal how close the people were to hm

2 tat were standng.

3

14

15

6

7

Q

A

Q

A

Q

But some of them were standng?

Yes

n front of hm?

Yes.

And would you estmate agan, how many -- and

8 understand it's an estimate, but how many of these people

19 were standing in front of him as opposed to tose sitters?

20

2

A

Q

An estmate would be maybe four or fve

Okay nd we heard testmony from another

22 wtness, so I don't know what you saw, but dd you see any

23 of the persons surroundng hm ever put ther hands on hs

24 bcycle?

3


32/74

1

2

3 hm?

4

5

A

Q

A

Q

Nt that I ecall.

Okay

N.

Okay.

Dd yu eve see them put the hands n

Wuld t be safe t say that t appeaed

6 that they had him suunded and he was t in a psitin

7 t leave?

8

9

10

A

Q

A

Yes.

And seveal f them had skatebads?

I ecall peple havng skatebads.

11 sa hw many thee wee.

I culdnt

12

13

Q I thught the wd "seveal" mght be thwng

yu f a cuve. But thee wee, safe t say, me than

14 ne skatebad amngst ths gup?

15

16

A

Q

Yes.

Okay. And dd they, n fact, appea t be a

1 gup f peple ncludng sme skates f lack f a

18 bette tem?

19 A Yes

20 Q Okay Safe o say a skateboad could be used to

21 infict seius bdily ham if swung at and stuck a

22 pesn?

23

24

A

Q

e

Okay. In fact, as an ffce, f yu wee

32


33/74

1 confroted with somebody with a skaeboard and you thought

they were hostile towards you, you would be on alert, so

3 to speak?

4

5

A

Q

Yes.

Mr Coughli was not wearing protective clothig

6 that night, he just had shorts, a T-shirt style shirt, and

7 a Chicago ha t?

A

Q

A

Yes.

Okay

Yes.

Ad he was outumbered?

MR LESLIE Sorry, Your Honor. I paused there

8

9

1

11

for a moment. I was receiving a call from Las Vegas, but

13 I turned it off

14 BY MR LESLIE

15 Q Now you indicated, I believe, that you handcuffed

16 him partly because he was hesitant to follow your

17 mmad?

18

19

A

Q

Yes

I think we establshed last time when I asked you

0 if he was anoyig, you actually answered more correctly

1 ad ind cated that you were becomig frustrated?

MR. YOUNG: Your onor, I'm going to object to

23 that as far as relevace.

4 MR LESLIE: It goes to his bias, Your Honor

33


34/74

1 M YONG Yur Hnr, and that was - yu

2 allwed that at the mtin t suppress hearing with

3 respect t suppressn. Nw that yu've ruled n that, t

4 desn't have any bearng wth respect t any materal fact

5 n ths charge

6

7

8

M LESLIE: Yur Hnr, I beleve t wll f

yu'll - I mean he already testfed t t All I want

t d s cnfrm that. And I beleve that wth anther

9 couple of questions that Mr. Coughlin has suggested I ask

10 there wll be a least a clrable clam f wtness bas

11 And I thnk the Curt shuld knw whether r nt ths

wtness

THE COT: Okay. I wll verrule the bectn13

14 M LESLIE: Thank yu

15 BY M. LESLIE:

6 Q I beleve that yu, based n hs behavr twards

17 yu, yu became frustrated

Yes18

19

A

Q At sme pnt durng yur encunter and yur

0 interactins with Mr Cughlin, did yu r anther fficer

1 have any discussin r make any statements with regard t

22 arresting him for a felony versus a misdemeanor?

23 M YONG: Agan, Yur Hnr, I'm gng t

24 object to that as relevance.

34


35/74

12345

proof?

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

I mean I - -THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

What i s the re levance?Your Honor may I make an o f f e r o f

What i s t he - -Well 11m i n fo rmed and b e l i e v e t h a t

6 what may have oc c ur r e d i s t h a t one o r more of the o f f i c e r s7 may have s a i d to Mr. Coughl in , lIyou know why d o n t we8 j u s t a r r e s t you f o r a f e l o n y i n s t e a d o f a misdemeanor9 because the b a i l w i l l be h ighe r and we d o n t have to j u s t

10 i s s u e you a c i t a t i o n , we can hau l you up to jail r i g h t11 now.12 And 11m t r y i n g to e s t a b l i s h whether o r not t he re13 was some s o r t o f m ot iva t ion o r r e t a l i a t i o n a g a i n s t14 Mr. Coughl in .151617

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

Well I d o n t unde r s t a nd .Can I f i n i s h my o f f e r ?

You d o n t have to - - w e l l , I j u s t18 have a ques t i on .1920

MR LESLIE: Okay.THE COURT: Whether o r no t he was charged wi th a

21 fe lony o r a misdemeanor t h e y d o n t have to i s s u e a22 c i t a t i o n .2324

MR LESLIE: Your Honor. Hold on. Your Honort h i s oc c ur r e d l a t e a t n igh t . t was no t commit ted

35


36/74

1 a l l e g e d l y commi t ted in t h e o f f i c e r s p r e s e n c e . It s o u r2 p o s i t i o n t h a t t h e y may no t have been j u s t i f i e d in t a k ing3 him i n t o cu s to d y and p l a c i n g him a t t h e jail t h a t n i gh t ,4 u n l e s s it was f o r a f e l o n y . I f he was in f a c t , a r r e s t e d

fo r a f e l o n y . H e s now cha rged w i th a p e t t y l a r c e ny ,6 which means t h a t t h e D.A. has made t h e d e t e r m i n a t i o n t h a t7 t h e g ra n d l a r c e n y was no t an a p p r o p r i a t e ch a r g e .8 t r y i n g t o f i n d o u t if t he o f f i c e r o r o f f i c e r s were9 mo t iv a t ed a g a i n s t - -

I m

10 THE COURT: I ll a l low you a few q u e s t i o n s , bu t11 I - -12 MR YOUNG: I ll renew my o b j e c t i o n .13 THE COURT: A l l r i g h t . O b j e c t i o n i s ove r ru l e d .14 Y MR LESLIE:15 Q So was t h e r e any such d i s c u s s i o n abou t a r r e s t i n g16 fo r a f e l o n y ve r s us a misdemeanor?1718192021

AQA

r e c a l lQ

I d o n t r e c a l l any d i s c u s s i o n .By y o u r s e l f o r by o t h e r o f f i c e r s ?I d o n t r e c a l l any d i s c u s s i o n by my s e l f .

t h a t Mr. Coughl in was a r r e s t e d f o r a f e l o n y .But was it your u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t if you

I do

22 a r r e s t e d him f o r a misdemeanor you would n o t be a b l e to23 se a rc h him i n c i d e n t to a r r e s t , you would i n s t e a d i s s u e him24 a c i t a t i o n ?

36


37/74

1 A As t he v a l u e o f t he phone s t a t e d to me was 300,2 and over t he grand l a r c e n y 1111 say over t he amount fo r3 p e t t y l a r c e n y t made t a grand l a r c e n y I d i d n l t look4 i n t o whether Mr. Coughl in q u a l i f i e d f o r a c i t a t i o n or no t .5 Q Mr. Coughl in a t one po i n t gave h i s ba r number; i s6 t h a t c o r r e c t ?789

THE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

10 BY MR LESLIE:

11m s o r r y . At one p o i n tGave h i s ba r number .

Oh, gave h i s ba r number . Okay.

11 Q I don l t expec t you to remember t he ba r number,12 but do you remember him g iv ing h i s name and t hen r e c i t i n g13 h i s ba r number?14 I r e c a l l him i d e n t i f y i n g h im s e l f as a lawyer . I15 don l t r e c a l l a n y t h i n g more s p e c i f i c .16 Q Did you o r d id any of t he o t h e r o f f i c e r s in your17 presence i n d i c a t e to him t h a t t hey o r you might c a l l the18 s t a t e ba r and r e p o r t him fo r h i s behav io r?1920 Q

I don l t r e c a l l .Are you denying t h a t t h a t happened o r you j u s t

21 c a n l t remember one way o r t he o the r?222324

AQA

I d o n l t remember one way o r t he o t h e r .Okay. So t h a t might have happened then?Yes, t might have .

37


38/74

2

Q Okay.MR LESLIE: Cour t l s i ndu lgence , Your Honor.

3 BY MR LESLIE:4 Q At one po i n t p r i o r to a c t u a l l y a r r e s t i n g him, you5 had p la c e d your hands on him; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?6

7

101112

A

Q

Honor.

Yes .Okay. And he exc la imed d u r i n g t h a t something to

MR YOUNG: O b j e c t i o n as to what he t hough t , YourNo way t he o f f i c e r can know t h a t .

MR LESLIE: Very w e l l . 1111 r ephrase .13 BY MR LESLIE:14151617

QA

QA

18 p e n i s .19 Q

He s a i d , Donl t touch my pe n i s ?T h a t l s no t what I r e c a l l him s a y ing .What do you r e c a l l him say ing about t h a t i s s ue ?I r e c a l l him y e l l i n g t h a t I was t ouch ing h i s

Okay. Was t h a t one o f the t h i n g s t h a t f r u s t r a t e d20 you about him?21 MR YOUNG: Again, Your Honor, 1111 o b j e c t as to22 r e l e va nc e . t d o e s n l t prove or d i s p rove any f ac t o r23 consequence . t S i r r e l e v a n t .24 THE COURT: What i s t he r e l e v a n c e ?

38


39/74

12

MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

Goes to w i tne s s b i a s , Your Honor.Again I ll a l low it fo r t he l i m i t e d

3 purpose and o v e r r u l e t he ~ b j e c t i o n4 THE WITNESS: I d o n t r e c a l l s p e c i f ic a l l y if t h a t5 made me more f r u s t r a t e d o r no t .6 BY MR LESLIE:7 Q But in any event , t h a t oc c ur r e d p r i o r to your8 d e t e r m i n a t i o n to a r r e s t ?9

10A Yes.

And h is - - h is h e s i t a n c e t o fo l low your commands11 o c c u r re d p r i o r to your d e c i s i o n to a r r e s t ?1213

A Yes.And h i s prov id ing h i s name and p o s s i b l y h i s ba r

14 number bu t no t answer ing your ques t i on , oc c ur r e d p r i o r to15 your de t e rmi na t i on to a r r e s t ?1617

A Yes.And h i s q u e s t i o n i n g whe the r you had a u t h o r i t y

18 unde r Te r ry oc c ur r e d p r i o r to your d e t e r m i n a t i o n t o19 a r r e s t ?2021

A Yes.And your f r u s t r a t i o n , as you d e s c r i b e d it a t t he

22 l a s t h e a r i n g , e x i s t e d p r i o r to your d e t e r m i n a t i o n to23 a r r e s t ?24 A Yes.

39


40/74

Q About how l ong was it between t he t ime t h a t you2 first o b s e r v ed Mr. Coughl in b e in g e n c i r c l e d by t he h o s t i l e3 young peop le and the t ime t h a t you d e t e r min ed to a r r e s t4 him?5 A Bes t e s t i m a t e would be between f i v e and t en6 min u te s7 Q And how much t ime took p la c e between when you8 initially a r r i v e d on scene and you saw pu t eyes on who9 you now i d e n t i f y as Mr. Coughl in?

10 A Very s h o r t p e r i o d o f t ime I d say no more t han11 15 seconds121314

QAQ

Okay.Yes.Okay.

Immedia te?

And how much t ime between your initial15 a r r i v a l and when you d e t a i n e d him?16 A I made t h e de te rm ina t ion t h a t he was no t f r ee to17 l eave when I saw him and he fit t he d e s c r ip t i o n g iv en by18 d i s p a t c h19 Q Okay. And t hen how much t ime between t he t ime20 you initially a r r i v e d and t he t ime you p l a c e d him in21 c uf f s ? And was it you t h a t p la c e d him in t he c u f f s ?2223

A

QYes.Okay So how much t ime between your initial

24 a r r i v a l on scene and t hen c l i c k i n g t he c u f f s on t o h i s

40


41/74

1 w r i s t s ?2345

A

A

A co u p le min u t e s .Two minutes?Two t o t h r e e minutes , p e rh a p s .MR LESLIE: Your Honor I know t h i s has been a

6 long trial, bu t I need a s h o r t break to r ev iew a v ideo7 c l i p t h a t m a y o r may n o t be s u b j e c t o f f u r t h e r8 c ros s - e xa m ina t ion , bu t I need to doub le -check its c on te n t s9 be fo re I p ro c e e d .

10 THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

How l ong do you t h i n k it w i l l t ake?Not long . No more t h a n t e n minutes .

12 The coun ty l ap t op t a ke s a little whi le to boot up but13 t hen it shou ld be j u s t a few minutes beyond t h a t . It s a14 s h o r t c l i p .15 And t he r e a so n I m a sk i n g f o r t h i s i s I m aware16 of t he c o n t e n t s and I have an o p i n i o n1718

THE COURT:g ive you t he t ime

T h a t s f i n e . My ques t i on i s I llI m j u s t wonder ing if we shou ld

19 reconvene a t 1:30 o r reconvene a t t e n to 12:00 and then20 MR LESLIE: I would sugges t we reconvene a t t e n21 to 12 :00 .22 THE COURT: You re on ly go ing to t a ke a couple23 minute s?24 MR LESLIE: I m going to r ev iew it and - -

41


42/74

1 THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . Then w e l l t a k e a2 10-minu te r e c e s s .345

MR. LESLIE: Thank you, Your Honor.THE COURT: Hopefu l ly w e l l f i n i s h . But I am

going to have to s t o p prompt ly a t noon. We a re schedu led6 fo r t he a f t e r n o o n as w e l l .789

101112131415

Honor.

MR. LESLIE: I f i gu re d we were .THE COURT: I m s o r r y .MR LESLIE: I f i g u r e d we were .THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .

Recess t aken .MR. LESLIE: Thank you f o r t h a t b re a k , Your

I t h i n k we can go back on t he r e c o rd .THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .Would you p l ease come up. Y o u r e still unde r

16 oa th .17 Witness resumed t he w i tne s s s t and . )18192021

THE COURT: Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE: Yes, Your Honor. J u s t a moment.Your Honor, it s a p p a re n t w e r e n o t going to wrap

up t h i s c ros s - e xa m ina t ion by noon. I wonder if we cou ld22 go ahead and r e c e s s u n t i l t he 1 :30-hour , and t hen I can23 f i n i s h my c ros s - e xa m ina t ion . And f r ank l y , wi th the24 i n t e r v e n i n g lunch hour , I can p ro b a b l y make s u re to make

42


43/74


44/74

1 MR YOUNG: Are we back on t he r e c o rd , Your2 Honor I guess .3

45

6

7

THE COURT:

THE CLERK:THE COURT:

Are we on t he record?Yes.Okay. This i s c a se o f S t a t e v .

Zachary B ar k e r Coughl in . And we a re back on t he record .This i s Case 06-3341 . And you a re sworn . And so if

8 y o u l l j u s t r e t a k e t he s t and .9

1011

Mr. L e s l i e .MR LESLIE:

any f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s .Your Honor I d o n t b e l i e v e I have

I have c o n f e r r e d w i t h12 Mr. Coughl in , and I c a n t ge t any s t r a i g h t answers out of13 him abou t any a d d i t i o n a l m a t e r i a l s . I have no f u r t h e r14 que s t ions a t t h i s t ime .15 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor e a r l i e r d id you16 i n d i c a t e I d have an o p p o r t u n i t y to c onfe r wi th Mr. L e s l i e17 a t t he c onc lus ion o f h i s c ros s ?181920

THE COURT: Well you d id .THE DEFENDANT: No I d i d n t , sir.MR LESLIE: I m happy t o t a ke f i v e more minutes ,

21 if t he Cour t , p l e a s e .222324 r e q u e s t s .

THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .MR LESLIE: To a f f o r d Mr. Coughl in t he t ime he

44


45/74

1 THE COURT: I w i l l g i v e you f i v e more minute s and2 t h a t s it, Mr. Coughl in , because we had an i n t e r v e n i n g3 pe r iod of a lmos t t e n minute s be fo re l unch .45 me.

78

THE DEFENDANT: Mr. L e s l i e r e f u s e d to meet with

THE COURT: You were ou t in t he h a l l with him.THE DEFENDANT: No, I w a s n t .MR. LESLIE: Anyway, Your Honor, if we want to

9 t ake the f i v e minu tes .1011

THE COURT: All r i g h t .MR. LESLIE: It w i l l p ro b a b l y t a k e 15 minute s to

12 a rgue t he p o i n t o r we can t ake the f ive minu tes .13 THE COURT: Okay. I w i l l g i v e you f i ve minutes ,14 but t h a t s it.151617

MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:

I ll s t e p ou t , Your Honor.Recess t aken . )

Al l r i g h t . The r e c o rd w i l l r e f l e c t18 t h a t Mr. Coughl in was g iv en t he oppor t un i t y t o c ons u l t19 with c ouns e l .2021

THE DEFENDANT: No s i r , Your Honor, I w a s n t .THE COURT: Well , t h a t i s t he r e c ord . But I - -

22 if you want to do it in c our t w i th me p r e s e n t , you can do23 t ha t .24 THE DEFENDANT: Do what , Your Honor?

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TH COURT: Consu l t wi th him. You j u s t went2 o u t s i d e t o c o n s u l t w i th him.34

TH DEFENDANT: No, I went o u t s i d e and Mr. L e s l i ew o u l d n t meet me ou t t h e r e . Then B a i l i f f Sexton

5 o rd e re d67

TH COURT: Mr. L e s l i e - -TH DEFENDANT: - - me to meet him in t he ha l lway

8 where w i tne s s e s co u ld - -9

10TH COURT: Al l r i g h t . I m n o t go ing to p l a y any

more games, Mr. Coughl in . You can t a l k to him r i g h t here .11 I w i l l ask Mr. Young and t he o t h e r peop le in t he cour t room12 who a re no t cour t p e r so n n e l to s t e p o u t s i d e . I ll g iv e3 you four minutes now.

141516

MR YOUNG:

MR LESLIE:

I ll l eave r i g h t now, Your Honor.Recess t aken . )I m going to make a r e c o rd as wel l ,

17 Your Honor, w i t h r e ga rd t o t he c l i e n t s competency.18 TH COURT: Al l r i g h t . We a re r eady to proceed .19 And t he Cour t , d u r i n g t he r e c e s s , d i d p e r s o n a l l y observe20 Mr. Coughl in t a l k i n g to h i s c o u n se l , a l t h o u g h I d id not21 l i s t e n to a n y t h i n g or he a r any th ing , o t h e r t h a n22 whisper ing , bu t I b e l i e v e t h a t t h e r e has been an a t t empt23 to communicate w i t h Mr. Coughl in . And we w i l l proceed .24 MR LESLIE: Your Honor, if I may, it s my b e l i e f

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1 t h a t Mr. Coughl in i s not l e g a l l y competent to proceed a t2 t h i s t ime. I m go ing to make a motion f o r t he C o u r t s3 d e t e r m i n a t i o n o f whe the r Mr. Coughl in shou ld be examined4 by a p s y c h i a t r i s t to de te rmine if h e s l e g a l ly competent .5 THE COURT:6 examined789

MR LESLIE:THE COURT:MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

So a t t h i s p o i n t t hes h o u l d n t say t h a t .

Well I b e l i e v e he was a l ready

I b e l i e v e he wasin t h i s c a s e .

I b e l i e v e he was.And was d e t e r min ed to be competent .mot ion w i l l be den ied . I wel l , II w i l l g i v e you a chance to argue

10111213 fu r t h e r . I mean I d o n t know if t h e r e s been a change in14 c i rcumstances , s i nce15 MR. LESLIE: Well I t h i nk it s j u s t based on t he16 r e c o rd as a whole . It s I t h i n k f o r t he to a l a rge17 ex t en t it s t he o b s e r v a t i o n s the Court has made o f h i s18 behav io r and h i s r e a so n i n g and menta l s t a t e .19 Yeah I m j u s t r a i s i n g t he i s s u e . I have a20 q u e s t i o n in my mind so (no i se in a ud io . )21 THE COURT: Well I have a q u e s t i o n i n my mind22 bu t I m no t a p s y c h i a t r i s t , and I v e t r i e d to have him23 examined on m u l t i p l e o c c a s i o n s in d i f f e r e n t c a s e s , and in24 every case t he y r u l e d he was competen t .

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2

MR LESLIE:THE COURT:

Okay.I s h o u l d n ' t say they ru l ed . The

3 d i s t r i c t cour t r u l e d he was competen t , based upon t he4 p s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n . I d o n ' t know if it was an a c t u a l5 p s y c h i a t r i s t .

78

MR YOUNG: There was two s e p a r a t e ones , YourHonor. There was a psych competency e v a l u a t i o n i n t h i scase and t h e n t h e r e was a where he met w i t h one . I

9 d o n ' t know if it was a s o c i a l worker or o the rw i s e , bu t one1011

i n d i v i d u a l . And t h e r e was in a s e p a r a t e case a competencye v a l u a t i o n where he met w i th two s e p a r a t e d o c t o r s . In a l l

12 e v a l u a t i o n s he was found compe ten t .13 I d o n ' t know if t h e r e ' s been a change be tween14 t hen and now o r if it s j u s t Mr. Cough l in ' s b e h a v i o r15 t h a t ' s p o s i n g t he d i f f i c u l t i e s . But , you know I16 c e r t a i n l y , you know it s not my c a l l whether - - what to17 do. Since it s been r a i s e d , I ll d e f e r to the Court if18 you f ee l it s a p p r o p r i a t e to conduc t a b r i e f he a r ing19 aga in , I ll s t e p ou t . You can ask any q u e s t i o n s , j u s t so20 you can de te rmine whe the r it s warran ted or no t .21 THE COURT: I 'm w i l l i n g to have him examined22 aga in , bu t I do want to f i n i s h w i th t h i s w i t n e s s . And23 h e ' s been h e re m u l t i p l e t imes and h e ' s on the s t a nd , and I24 b e l i e v e a t l e a s t Mr. L e s l i e , you can q u e s t i o n him. So if

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1 you have any q u e s t i o n s .2 MR. LESLIE: Yes.3 CROSS-EXAMINATION RESUMED)4 BY MR LESLIE:

Q O f f i c e r , do you have any r e l a t i o n to t he6 d i s p a t c h e r t h a t d i s p a t c h e d you to t he scene in t h i s case?7 A I d o n t r e c a l l who t he d i s p a t c h e r was bu t my8 wife i s a d i s p a t c h e r .9 Q

10 case?1112

A

Q

And to your knowledge was she i nvo lved in t h i s

Not to my knowledge.Very wel l . Did you n o t i c e any i n c o n s i s t e n c i e s

13 when you a r r i v e d on scene between what t he d i f f e r e n t14 w i tne s s e s were t e l l i n g you had happened?1516

AQ

Not t h a t I r e c a l l .Do you r e c a l l any i n c o n s i s t e n c y between

17 Mr. G o b l e s and Mr. Za ra t e ; one sa y i n g t h a t Mr. Coughl in18 had a l l e g e d l y t a k e n t he phone from some t h i r d p a r t y t h a t19 nobody knows who t h e y a re , and t h e n t he o t h e r say ing t h a t20 Mr. Coughl in j u s t p icked the phone up d i r e c t l y from where21 it was l y ing?2223

A t was my impress ion a t t he t ime o f the case - - Id o n t have any r e c o l l e c t i o n o f t he t h i r d p a r t y . I was

24 l a t e r r e a d ing Mr. Z a r a t e s s t a t e m e n t and n o t i c e d t h a t t he

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t h i r d p a r t y was l i s t e d in it. But a t t he t ime o f t he2 i n c i d e n t I d i d n t have any knowledge o f t h a t .34

6789

MR. LESLIE: I d o n t have any fu r t h e r ques t i ons .THE COURT: Mr. Young do you have any que s t ions ?MR. YOUNG:THE COURT:

No Your Honor.You re f r e e to go. Thank you.

I do n o t e we have - - a re you a w i tne s s , s i r ?AUDIENCE MEMBER: No sir.THE COURT: Okay. Then I - - in l i g h t o f t he

10 conduc t o f t hese p ro c e e d i n g s and e v e r y t h i n g t h a t s11 happened h e r e i n , I do b e l i e v e t h e r e s a t l e a s t a que s t ion12 as to Mr. C o u g h l in s competency go ing all t he way back to

3 t he initial o f f e r to - - o f f e r e d by t he p r o s e c u t i o n and14 what happened on the first day when we were here fo r t he15 b e t t e r p a r t o f an hour and a h a l f .16 So I - - r e l u c t a n t l y I m go ing to o r d e r a n o t h e r17 competency e v a l u a t i o n . But t h i s t ime I am going to ask18 bo th counse l to p ro v i d e t he e v a l u a t o r wi th any19 documenta t ion o r any th ing e l s e t h a t you might have with20 r e spec t t o t he competency and ask t he e v a l u a t o r to review21 h i s p r i o r competency he a r ings , e s p e c i a l l y t he one a t22 NNAMHS when he went t h e r e . And it s my u n d e r s t a n d i n g23 t h e r e was some th ing t h a t happened t h e r e as wel l .24 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor in my s t a t e m e n t j u s t

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p r e v i o u s l y wi th r e s p e c t t o an i n q u i r y , o b v i o u s l y I have no2 i n s i d e i n f o r m a t i o n as to what Mr. L e s l i e i s s e e ing , beyond3 what we ve all seen th rough t he c o u r se of t he d e f e n d a n t s

conduc t in open cour t . It c e r t a i n l y seems to me - - l i k e I5 s a i d , every e v a l u a t i o n has come back, h e s been found6

7

competent , and it j u s t it r a i s e s a s i g n i f i c a n t concernto t he S t a t e t h a t t h i s i s a it i s j u s t Mr. Coughl in

8 be ing d i f f i c u l t and p u t t i n g in i s s u e s t h a t r e a l l y a r e n t9 t h e r e .

10 And so I m no t f a u l t i n g Mr. L e s l i e . I f11 Mr. L e s l i e f e e l s t h a t t h a t s ne c e s s a ry o r a p p r o p r i a t e , I m12 not going to c ha l l e nge t ha t , bu t it j u s t seems t h a t13 Mr. Coughl in , t h rough a l l h i s a c t i o n s , c e r t a i n l y i s14 competent , h e s j u s t be ing ve ry o b s t r u c t i o n i s t w i th a l l o f15 h i s dea l i ngs w i t h c e r t a i n l y myse l f and in some of t he16 e -m a i l s I ge t from him.

And a ga in , I c a n t speak fo r Mr. L e s l i e . So I ll1718 d e f e r to t he Cour t . But it s j u s t a little ponder ing to19 me wi th where w e r e a t a t t h i s t ime w i t h what t he20 d e f en d an t i s do ing .21 THE COURT: I u n d e r s t a n d t h a t . y problem i s22 t h a t h i s conduc t i s d e f i n i t e l y o b s t r u c t i o n i s t , bu t a t t he23 same t ime it s no t r a t i o n a l in t e rms o f w h a t s been24 o f f e r e d t o him. And I have had m u l t i p l e c a s e s wi th him

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t h i s i s no t t he first. And o v e ra l l , he has not ac t ed in away t h a t i s r a t i o n a l to me. And I v e d e a l t wi th thousands

3 of people in t h i s cour t room and he i s d e f i n i t e l y - - I m4 going to say unusua l . So and I - - so I am going to ask5 one more t ime t h a t an eva lua t ion be done in l i g h t of6 w h a t s happened in t h i s case . And if it comes back h e s7 competent w e l l f in i s h the trial.8 But I w i l l advise you s i r , Mr. Coughl in , if it9 comes back t h a t you a re competent t he n I be l i eve you a re

10 o b s t r u c t i o n i s t , so we w i l l f i n i s h t h i s in a reasonablet ime frame in s h o r t orde r .

12 Now I d o n t know how many wi t nesses , do you have13 any l e f t ?1415

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

No Your Honor.Mr. Les l i e , I m no t asking you to

16 i d e n t i f y wi t nesses o r any th ing r i g h t now bu t i f we17 cont inue the trial how long do you a n t i c i p a t e t he18 defendan t w i l l t ake?192021

MR LESLIE:h i s be ha v io r . I

THE COURT:

It depends a l o t on Mr. Coughl in and

Well h i s behavior i s going to be22 very d i f f e r e n t if we cont inue the trial because I m going23 to have a no the r de t e rmi na t i on of competency and I m not24 going to put up w i t h any a d d i t i o n a l i n t e r r u p t i o n s . We

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w i l l j u s t go s t r a i g h t t h rough .234

MR LESLIE: I - - you know we need to de te rmineif h e s go ing to t e s t i f y .would have any wi t nesses .

Other t h a n t h a t I doubt t h a t II f I had any it would be

5 s h o r t .6 THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .7 MR LESLIE: I mean if t h i s were o t h e r t han h i s8 be ha v io ra l i s s u e s , I would t h i nk when we come back I9 shou ld t h i n k w e l l be done in an hour o r l e s s .

10111213

THE COURT: Typic a l ly , my e xpe r i e nc e has beent he s e t ake abou t 30 days . But I d o n t know how long itwi l l t ake . So do we have t he competency o r d e r here?

All r i g h t . I w i l l s i gn an o r d e r t oday and t hen14 w e l l r e s c he du le once we ge t a de t e rmi na t i on .15 MR LESLIE: Well I would ask t h a t a s t a t u s16 he a r ing be s e t so we have no d i s p u t e as to h i s appearance .

THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . Well t he n I m going to718 se t it ou t . Mr. Young do you have any p r e f e r e n c e fo r a19 t ime f rame?20 MR YOUNG: Your Honor t ak i ng i n t o l i g h t t he21 t ime it t akes t o ge t the e v a l u a t i o n , I would ask fo r it as22 soon as p o s s ib l e , bu t I ll c e r t a i n l y d e f e r to t he Court23 and counse l .24 MR LESLIE: I t h i nk if you pu t it in your orde r ,

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1 La k e s Cross ing co u ld t u r n it a round in two to2 t h r e e weeks. I mean t h a t was done a t t he district c our t3 l e v e l .4 THE COURT: Well , I do want it to be a5 p s y c h i a t r i s t , in my mind, no t a s o c i a l worke r . So am6 going to r e q u e s t t h a t it be a p s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n .789

Yes, s i r ?THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, if I may speak.

had two p r e v i o u s p s y c h i a t r i c e v a l u a t i o n s done . And inI v e

10 n e i t h e r o f t hos e c a s e s , and so f a r no t in t h i s case , has11 anyone a r t i c u l a t e d a s p e c i f i c bases f o r why t h e y f ee l1213

t h e y r e done . And I b e l i e v e t he RS r e q u i r e s t h a t tobe - - to be made on t he r e c o rd . I would l i k e an

14 i n d i c a t i o n o f j u s t e x a c t l y how I v e pu t t he q u e s t i o n in my15 competency i n t o p l a y beyond a broad a l l e g a t i o n of , Well ,16 it speaks f o r itself j u s t h i s conduc t t h roughou t17 e v e r y t h i n g .18 THE COURT: Well , I w i l l s p e c i f i c a l l y i n d i c a t e ,19 s i r , t h a t number one20 THE DEFENDANT: I m so r ry , Your Honor . I meant21 with r e ga rd to t he pub l i c d e fe n d e r has never a r t i c u l a t e d22 t h e i r bases f o r doing so .23 MR. LESLIE: Well , Your Honor if he d i s p u t e s24 it - -

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THE DEFENDANT: Whether - -MR LESLIE: And i f he d i s p u t e s it, and you t h i nk

3 h e s competent to proceed , I was j u s t r a i s i n g t he i s sue .4 I mean, I d o n t have any th ing to add in te rms of , you5 know, summariz ing h i s b e h a v i o r and h i s menta l s t a t e o t h e r6 t han what you lve seen in t he s e var i ous proc e e d ings .7 THE DEFENDANT: I t h i nk t h a t would be o b s t r u c t i v e8 to me.9 THE COURT: S i r , wai t a second. So you - - it's

10 your p o s i t i o n y o u l r e competen t to f i n i s h t h i s t r i a l ?THE DEFENDANT: That - - I d i d n t pu t forward a

12 p o s i t i o n i n t h a t r e ga rd . I s a i d l i v e never been g iven a13 s p e c i f i c a r t i c u l a t e d bases fo r why t he p u b l i c defender14 f e e l s t h a t t h a t s an i s s u e . They mere ly r e s t on, oh,15 wel l , it's obv ious , it speaks fo r itself.16 No. I would l i k e a s p e c i f i c , a r t i c u l a t e d ,17 s e r i o u s bases f o r why t he pub l i c d e fe n d e r f e e l s my18 competency i s an i s s u e , because to me it seems l i k e t he s e19 competency e v a l u a t i o n s a re e i t h e r brough t fo r a20 r e t a l i a t o r y r e a s on o r used as some s o r t of s h i e ld fo r t he

21 pub l i c d e fe n d e r a t t imes .2223

THE COURT: I w i l l tell you, my o n l y concern i s Ido not want to be u n fa i r to you in t h e s e proc e e d ings . I f

4 you a re competen t , t hen you can go forward and you can

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1 make an in fo rmed d e c i s i o n as to whether o r no t to t e s t i f y ,2 t hen I have no prob lem wi th f i n i s h i n g it. y concern i s3 t h a t t he be ha v io r you have d i s p l a ye d i s no t r a t i o n a l e in4 t e rms - - I t h ink I v e sa id t h i s be fo re - - I b e l i e v e t h a t5 you a re a b r i l l i a n t person , ve ry smar t , ve ry a r t i c u l a t e ,6 bu t you a l s o have focussed on m i n u t i a to t he po i n t where7 it i s coun t e rp roduc t i ve , bo th to your d e fe n se and to t he8 way you l i v e your life.9 I mean, I v e seen you many t imes , Mr. Coughl in ,

10 in r e n t a l cases , in c r im ina l c a s e s , I know your conduct o r11 a l l e g e d conduc t when you went fo r your menta l h e a l t h12 e v a l u a t i o n , I v e heard s im i l a r - - and a ga in , it s h e a r sa y ,13 bu t s i m i l a r t h i n g s t h a t o c c u r re d a t t he PD s o f f i c e ,14 s im i l a r t h ings have o c c u r re d dow ns ta i r s . As ch ie f Judge ,15 I v e been in fo rmed bo th in w r i t i n g by you and o t h e r s t h a t16 t h e r e have been d i s p u t e s . And even t oday d u r i n g one of17 t he s e p roc e e d ings , you i n d i c a t e d some th ing about t he18 b a i l i f f p u t t i n g h i s foo t in an i n a p p r o p r i a t e p l ace .19 So mean t h e r e i s t h i s h o s t i l i t y between you and20 some peop le who mean you know harm a t a l l , who a c tu a l l y21222324

want to he lp you. And ye t y o u r e c o n s t a n t l y assuming t h a teveryone i s ou t to ge t you here And w e r e not . As afe l low member o f t he bar . I wish t h i s had never happenedto you. I wish we w e r e n t here today .

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1 So I want to g i v e you a f a i r shake . And a t t he2 same t ime if you f e e l t h a t y o u r e r ead y to proceed and3 r eady to go t he n let s f i n i s h it.4 THE DEFENDANT: I asked fo r an a r t i c u l a t e d bases5 to be pu t i n t o t he r e c o rd o r a t l e a s t i n d i c a t e d to me by6 t he pub l i c de fe nde r j u s t i f y i n g any o f t hese t h r e e7 pre v ious , I d id no t make a s t a t e m e n t wi th r e ga rd t o8 whether I f e l t t he y were a p p r o p r i a t e o r no t o r as to my9 competency. I j u s t s t a t e d t h a t t he law r e q u i r e s t h a t by

10 mot ion t hey pu t an a r t i c u l a t e d b a s i s f o r why t hey a re so11 moving fo r one . And I t h i nk t h a t might me - -12 THE COURT: Well I t h i nk t he Court can sua13 spon te do it, t oo .

THE DEFENDANT: And if t h a t s - -THE COURT: And I m you know what w e r e going

141516 to go fo rward . Not on ly t h a t , if you d o n t want17 Mr. L e s l i e t o r e p r e s e n t you you want t o r e p r e s e n t18 your se l f , I w i l l a l low you to do t ha t , too , f o r t he r e s t19 o f t h i s , because you have t h i ngs t h a t you f e e l he d i d n t20 do you can do them.212223

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:MR LESLIE:

24 Mr. Coughl in .

Your Honor - -Do you want to p r o ceed o r what?

I t h i nk t he q u e s t i o n i s to

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THE DEFENDANT: Let t he r e c o rd r e f l e c t Mr. L e s l i e2 i s s m i l ing a t me a t t h i s moment.3 THE COURT: I m t a l k i n g to Mr. Coughl in .4 THE DEFENDANT: I c e r t a i n l y t h i n k t he e x t e n t to5 which t he Court and Mr. L e s l i e have i n t e r j e c t e d my6 competency i n t o t h i s a t t h i s po i n t makes it perhaps78

r e q u i r e d t o have a competency e v a l u a t i o n done . But yes , Iwould p r e f e r t o r e p r e s e n t myse l f . The C o u r t s a l r e a d y

9 ru l ed on t h a t .10 THE COURT: Well i y o u r e found to be11 compe ten t , I see no r e a so n you c a n t r e p r e s e n t y o u r s e l f .12 My reason f o r proceed ing w i th Mr. L e s l i e i n t h i s case i s

3 because I d id no t t h i n k you were competent to r e p r e s e n t14 your se l f .15 THE DEFENDANT: And t h e b a se s fo r r e j e c t i n g t he16 p l e a agreement , was t h a t based on competency?17 MR YOUNG: Your Honor i I may as to any s o r t18 of p l e a n e g o t i a t i o n s , t h a t i s no t a p p r o p r i a t e t o b r ing in19 t he r e c o rd .2021

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

T h a t s f i n e .As f a r as t he competency eva l ua t i on ;

22 you o rd e re d t he e v a l u a t i o n , I have n o t h ea r d Mr. Coughl in23 say t h a t he f e e l s he i s compe ten t . What my s ugge s t ion24 would be because he has now i n t e r j e c t e d h im s e l f i n t o t h i s

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1 case , t o p r e s e r v e t he r e c o rd , I would su g g e s t we go2 forward w i t h t he e v a l u a t i o n as y o u v e a l r e a d y o rd e re d , we3 w i l l s e t t h i s ou t .4

5

THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

Al l r i g h t .And wel l ge t t h a t . As to whe the r

6 Mr. Coughl in i s go ing t o r ep resen t h i mse l f , t h a t i s an7 e n t i r e l y s e p a r a t e i s s u e . And f r ank l y , shou ld not be8 decided - - because t h e r e s an orde r f o r competency9 pending, shou ld no t be a d d re s se d now. We can a d d re s s t h a t

10 l a t e r , bu t it s a t o t a l l y s e p a r a t e i s s u e , whether h e s11 competen t to proceed .12 The f i na l t h i ng I d l i k e to ask i s j u s t what t he13 C o u r t s i n c l i n a t i o n i s as to Mr. C o u g h l i n s cus tody s t a t u s14 pend ing t he ps yc ho log ic a l e v a l u a t i o n .1516

THE COURT: My i n c l i n a t i o n i s t h a t h i s cus todys t a t u s rema in as it i s . I d o n t even know what - - a re you

1 7 OR d , sir?1819

THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.THE COURT: And cond i t i ons ; Cour t S e r v i c e s

2 supe rv i s i on or?

21 THE DEFENDANT: No. I m no t under any cond i t i ons22 t h a t - - I d o n t have Cour t S e r v i c e s s u p e r v i s i o n , s i r .23 Whether o r no t I have any o t h e r c o n d i t i o n s , I - -24 THE COURT: Well hang on because the c l e r k w i l l

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1 tell me.2 THE CLERK: There was cas h b a i l pos t e d .3 THE COURT: You have cash b a i l pos t e d , sir.4 THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.5 THE COURT: So t h e r e a re no c o n d i t i o n s . And I m6 not going to c ha l l e nge h i s s t a t u s , bu t we w i l l p ic k a da te7 r i g h t now.8 THE CLERK: Are we s e t t i n g it fo r a p r e t r i a l ?9 MR YOUNG: It s no t a p r e t r i a l .

10 THE COURT: No. No. It s a c o n t i n u e d trial11 da t e . w e l l , a c t u a l l y it s a s t a t u s .12 Do you want it as a c o n t i n u e d trial da te o r a13 s t a t u s ?14 MR YOUNG: The S t a t e i n t e n d s - - I m not going to15 do a n y t h i n g w i t h r e s p e c t to t he S t a t e s case , because16 t h e r e s t he q u e s t i o n o f competency bu t it s the S t a t e s17 i n t e n t i o n to r e s t as soon as t h a t i s s u e i s r e s o lve d . So I18 am okay s e t t i n g it fo r a con t inued trial d a t e .19 MR LESLIE: T h a t s f ine , Your Honor. I t h i n k20 depending on what21 THE COURT: Why d o n t we s e t it a round 60 days ,22 because t h a t shou ld g ive us p l e n t y o f t ime .23 MR LESLIE: T h a t s more t han we need.24 MR YOUNG: T h a t s way more t han we need.

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23

THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Al l r i g h t .THE DEFENDANT: Might it be p e r m i s s i b l e to a l low

4 Mr. L e s l i e to c on t inue h i s c ros s - e xa m ina t ions t oday o f5 Mr. Za ra t e w h o s been ca l l ed?6

78

THE COURT: No.MR LESLIE: Not if my c l i e n t i s no t compe ten t .THE COURT: T h e r e s no t go ing to be any more

9 p ro c e e d i n g s t o d ay u n t i l we d e t e r min e your competency.10 THE DEFENDANT: Well even if t h a t r e s u l t e d in a11 ne ga t ive de t e rmi na t i on , Mr. L e s l i e has no t seemed to r e l y12 upon my i npu t in any r e s p e c t .13 MR LESLIE: Your Honor you made a r u l i n g . I14 mean he ll argue wi th you a l l day.151617

THE COURT: Welre done sir.THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir.THE COURT: Welre going to s e t a d a t e . Everyone

18 t h i n k s it s too f a r ou t , so1920

212223 work?24

MR LESLIE:MR YOUNG:

THE COURT:THE CLERK:

MR LESLIE:

I t h i nk no more t h a n 30 days .I agree .Al l r i g h t .Second week of Oc tober , would t h a t

Can I check something?

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1 MR. YOUNG: A c tua l ly , i s t h a t October 8 th? I m2 in j u r y trial, so no.

THE COURT: I m not here t he end o f Septembert he beg inn ing of Oc tober . I m going to be a t t e n d i n g aj u d g e s c onfe r e nc e . So t he fo l lowing week.

3

4

5

6 MR. YOUNG: So if we can do it l a t e r in October .7 Real ly , October 8 t h and 9 th would be bad f o r me bu t even8 l a t e r t h a t week would be okay.9

10

121314151617

THETHEMR.MR.THETHETHETHETHE

CLERK:COURT:YOUNG:LESLIE:COURT:CLERK:COURT:CLERK:COURT:

I can do t he 10 th o r 11 th .1 0 th o r 1 1 th work?11 th would be f i n e .

The 11 th i s f i ne .What day i s t he 11th?Thursday.W ha t s wrong wi th ThursdayWait . I m s o r r y . Y o u r e r i gh t .Thursdays Judge Pearson does CCPs

18 it s mandatory I do p l e a s , un le s s - - t hen w e d have to19 c a l l in a no the r Judge , so Wednesday would be b e t t e r .2021

MR. YOUNG: T h a t s f i n e .MR. LESLIE: I d o n t know if it he l ps , bu t I

so

22 c a n t imagine - - I would t h i n k t h a t we co u ld s t a r t in t he23 a f t e rnoon , if t h a t works fo r eve rybody . I mean w e r e down24 to--

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THE COURT:MR YOUNG:

I ha te to - - I want to f i n i s h t h i s .I j u s t would h a t e to conf i rm fo r t he2

3 lOth if my j u r y trial goes i n t o t h a t day. I s t a r t on the48th5 THE COURT: Are you s u r e t he 11 th? How about t he6 fo l lowing week?789

10

MR YOUNG: The fo l l owi ng week i s f ine .MR LESLIE: Let me j u s t check . Yes.THE COURT: Monday work?MR LESLIE: Anytime the week o f t he 15 t h would

11 work.1213 a t 9:00 .

THE COURT:And we w i l l

L e t s do it s t a r t i n g in the morningand I promise you t h i s , t h e r e

14 w i l l not be any r ece s se s o r any of t h a t kind o f s t u f f .15 We re j u s t going to go s t r a i g h t t h rough .1617181920

21

MR YOUNG: October 15 t h a t 9:00?THE COURT: Yes.MR YOUNG: Thank you.MR LESLIE: And, Your Honor, i s your c l e r k going

to provide a w r i t t e n n o t i f i c a t i o n of t ha t ? They sometimesdo t h a t in cou r t f o r pr e l ims and t h ings l i k e t h a t . I

22 d o n t want to have to come back and l i t i g a t e wi th23 Mr. Coughl in about whether he r ece ived n o t i c e when h e s24 s i t t i n g r i g h t he r e l i s t e n i n g to t h i s .

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THE COURT: Well w e l l g i ve him a s l i p .MR LESLIE: Thank you 2

3 THE COURT: What we normal ly do - - Mr. Coughl in ,4 fo r the r eco rd , what we normal ly do i s pr ov ide the5 de fe nda n t s w i t h a s l i p t h a t has t he title on it t he da t e6 and t ime . And I m going to ask t he c l e r k to r e a d the s l i p7 t h a t s go ing to be handed to you so t h a t t h e r e s no8 q u e s t i o n a s to what was given to you.9 THE DEFENDANT: Yes sir Your Honor. May I

10 ask- THE COURT: Wait a second, sir.12 THE CLERK: Date to appea r i s October 15th , 201213 a t 9:00 a.m. f o r s a i d trial.14 THE COURT: Al l r i g h t . So t h a t s - - fo r the15 r eco r d , t he bailiff has handed t h a t s l i p to Mr. Coughl in16 which i n d i c a t e s t he d a t e and t ime fo r t he con t i nued trial.1718

Mr. Coughl in - - what does he want to say?THE DEFENDANT: The wi tnes s es t h a t were

19 subpoenaed Dawson and Temple ton t hey d id no t show up to20 e i t h e r the supp re s s ion hea r ing o r t he trial he r e .21 b e l i e v e it was because a t the J u l y 16 t h da te , the22 a t t o r n e y

I

23 THE COURT: S i r , you can d i s c u s s t h a t with your24 a t t o rney .

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1

23

4

MR LESLIE: Thank you Your Honor .(Recording t u rne d o f f a t 2:12 p.m.)

(Recording t u rne d back on . )MR LESLIE: - - c o o p e ra t e w i t h the in t e rv i e w s

5 t hey r e q u i r e ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?THE COURT: Well I m going to do an orde r t h a t6

7 he has to have t he e v a l u a t i o n . Do you have a b lan k order?8 Can one o f t he b a i l i f f s b r i n g me a copy o f t he o rde r , a9 copy of our o r d e r f o r e va lua t ion?

1011

THE BAILIFF: Yes Your Honor.THE COURT: I ll tell you e x a c t l y what it says .

12 And t hen , bu t - -1314

MR YOUNG: And t h a t was the r e a so n I asked aboutcus tody s t a t u s . I j u s t want to make s u re if it s ordered

15 by t he Cour t t h a t it g e t s done be fo re t h i s new da t e .16 THE COURT: Well I w i l l o r d e r t h a t r i g h t now.17 j u s t want to r ev iew what our form o r d e r says , and t hen I18 may even fill it ou t r i g h t here r i g h t now and g ive19 Mr. Coughl in a copy .20

212223

MR LESLIE: That would be a p p r o p r i a t e .THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Yes sir.THE DEFENDANT: J u s t wi th r e s p e c t t o t he ex t en t

24 to which you broached t he s u b j e c t e a r l i e r abou t what you

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1 had h ea r d about Lake ' s Cross ing ; pre v ious d i f f i c u l t i e s2 w i th La k e ' s C ro s s i n g r e l a t e d j u s t to t h a t i s s u e o f what3 does t h i s r e q u i r e o f t he defendan t , i s it a b lank check?4 I s Mr. Dogan a l lowed to read what m e d i c a t i o n s I t ake i n t o5 t he open r e c o rd and announce it in open c o u r t as he did?6 THE COURT: I am no t - - I 'm j u s t say ing t h a t7 t h e r e were prob lems .89

THE DEFENDANT: ButTHE COURT: Whether t h e y were even - - maybe t he

10 problem was t h a t La k e ' s Cross ing d id some th ing to you.11 But I am go ing to o r d e r and s i g n t h i s r i g h t now.12 t says you w i l l fill in t he c a se number.13 Do you have a D.A. number?1415

MR YOUNG:THE COURT:

D.A. number i s 432068.And t h i s i s Case No. R R 2011-063341.

16 And upon motion o f counse l fo r the defendan t here i n , and17 good cause a p p e a r i n g t h e r e f o r , it i s hereby o rd e re d t h a t18 t he de fendan t be examined by a p s y c h i a t r i s t . I 'm not19 going to have a p s y c h i a t r i c s o c i a l worker o r o t h e r person20 who i s s p e c i a l l y q u a l i f i e d by t he D i v i s i o n __ I 'm even21 going to d e l e t e t h a t , because f o r t he purpose o f22 de te rmin ing if the d e f en d an t i s no t o f s u f f i c i e n t23 ment a l i t y t o be a b le t o u n d e r s t a n d t he n a t u r e of t he24 c r im ina l c h a rg e s a g a i n s t him, and two, if because o f

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1 mental i n s u f f i c i e n c y , t he defendant i s not a b l e t o a id and2 a s s i s t counse l in t he defense i n t e r p o s e d upon the trial o r3 a g a i n s t a pronouncement of judgment t h e r e f o r . t I s4 f u r t he r or de r ed t h a t t he defendant i s to a ppe a r __ now56

t h i s i s t he problem.e v a l u a t i o n h e a r i n g .

This i s only fo r t he competencySo I 'm going t o pu t , I t i s f u r t he r

7 or de r ed t h a t t he de fe nda n t i s to appea r __ no we d o n ' t8 have the t ime o r any th ing , so I can j u s t say , f o r sa id9 e v a l u a t i o n a t Nevada Menta l Hea l th , o r o ~ d id you want

10 it f ramed so t h a t I 'm going t o pu t , fo r t he mental11 h e a l t h e v a l u a t i o n and coope r a t e wi th t he e v a l u a t o r on the12 da t e and t ime s e t fo r s a i d eva lua t i on . And it i s f u r t he r13 orde re d t h a t t he defendant appea r be fo re myse l f . 14 Now we have to put a t ime f o r t he competency15 e v a l u a t i o n h e a r i n g .16 MR. LESLIE: I d o n ' t know why it c ou l dn ' t be the17 same t ime as t he trial da te , because if h e ' s competent ,18 w e ' l l j u s t proc e e d ; and if h e ' s no t , t hen we won ' t be ab l e19 t o .2021 d a t e .2223

THE COURT:

THE CLERK:THE COURT:

24 9:00 a .m.?

Right . W e' l l j u s t s e t it fo r t h a t

October 15th .The 15 t h day of October , 2012 a t

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23

4

THE CLERK: Yes.THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor?THE COURT: Sorry , sir.THE DEFENDANT: May I make - - ask a que s t ion .

5 Had you p r e v i o u s l y i n d i c a t e d you were r e q u i r i n g b o th t he6 D.A. and t he p u b l i c d e fe n d e r to p ro v i d e m a t e r i a l s to7 La k e s C ro s s i n g s u p p o r t i n g any c o n t e n t i o n t he y have as to8 competency b e i n g an i s s ue ?9 MR YOUNG: I m no t prov id ing a n y t h i n g , Your

10 Honor.MR LESLIE: I w o n t p ro v i d e a n y t h i n g un le s s

12 r e que s t e d by13 THE DEFENDANT: Usua l ly judges tell you guys what14 to do, d o n t they? You d o n t tell - -15 MR LESLIE: We re he lp ing the Court make a16 d e t e r m i n a t i o n .1718

THE COURT: I am no t go ing to tell them what todo, I j u s t su g g e s t e d it. And n e i t h e r wants to do t h a t ,

19 so - - and you d o n t seem to want it based on what you20 sa id .21 THE DEFENDANT: No, I would l i k e them to do t h a t ,22 because I v e so f a r no t been g iven any s p e c i f i c a t i o n as to23 why e i t h e r o f them f ee l t h e r e s t r u l y a competency i s sue24 v e r su s use some th ing fo r some o t h e r purpose .

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1 THE COURT: Well I w i l l pu t he re , I t i s f u r t h e r2 o rd e re d t h a t t he e v a l u a t o r review ll p r i o r e v a l u a t i o n s i n3 making t he examina t ion o r in conduc t ing e x a m i n a t i o n .4 MR LESLIE: Your Honor t h e r e i s one more5

9 5 12 cr12-2025 063341 0204 74 page morning portion transcript by lynn stubbs 0204 full ocr a9...

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