96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

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Pre Engineered Buildings Posted in Project Reports | Email This Post Introduction to Pre Engineered Buildings Technological improvement over the year has contributed immensely to the enhancement of quality of life through various new products and services. One such revolution was the pre engineered buildings. Through its origin can be traced back to 1960’s its potential has been felt only during the recent years. This was mainly due to the development in technology, which helped in computerizing the design and design. Though initially only off the shelf products were available in these configurations aided by the technological development tailor made solutions are also made using this technology in very short durations. A recent survey by the Metal Building Associations (MBMA) shows that about 60% of the non residential low rises building in USA are pre engineered buildings. Although PEB systems are extensively used in industrial and many other non residential constructions world wide, it is relatively a new concept in India. These concepts were introduced to the Indian markets lately in the late 1990’s with the opening up of the economy and a number of multi nationals setting up their projects.The market potential of PEB’s is 1.2 million tones per annum. The current pre engineered steel building manufacturing capacity is 0.35 million tones per annum. The industry is growing at the compound rate of 25 to 30 %. With respect to design of the structure and aesthetic appearance India is way behind. Indian manufacturers are trying to catch up; comparatively PEB’s is a new concept in India. Beside, in fabrication and other areas of PEB India is very good. As compared to other countries Indian codes for building design are stringent but safer. IS standards are upgraded continuously. In India, American codes are also followed.

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Page 1: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

Pre Engineered Buildings

Posted in Project Reports | Email This Post

Introduction to Pre Engineered Buildings

Technological improvement over the year has contributed immensely to the enhancement of quality of life through various new products and services. One such revolution was the pre

engineered buildings. Through its origin can be traced back to 1960’s its potential has been felt only during the recent years. This was mainly due to the development in technology, which helped in computerizing the design and design.

Though initially only off the shelf products were available in these configurations aided by the technological development tailor made solutions are also made using this technology in very short durations. A recent survey by the Metal Building Associations (MBMA) shows

that about 60% of the non residential low rises building in USA are pre engineered buildings.

Although PEB systems are extensively used in industrial and many other non residential constructions world wide, it is relatively a new concept in India. These concepts were

introduced to the Indian markets lately in the late 1990’s with the opening up of the economy and a number of multi nationals setting up their projects.The market potential of PEB’s is 1.2 million tones per annum. The current pre engineered steel building manufacturing capacity is

0.35 million tones per annum. The industry is growing at the compound rate of 25 to 30 %.

With respect to design of the structure and aesthetic appearance India is way behind. Indian manufacturers are trying to catch up; comparatively PEB’s is a new concept in India. Beside,

in fabrication and other areas of PEB India is very good. As compared to other countries Indian codes for building design are stringent but safer. IS standards are upgraded continuously. In India, American codes are also followed.

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Pre engineered steel buildings can be fitted with different structural accessories including mezzanine floors, canopies, fascias, interior partitions etc. and the building is made water

proof by use of special mastic beads, filler strips and trims. This is very versatile buildings systems and can be finished internally to serve any functions and accessorized externally to

achieve attractive and unique designing styles. It is very advantageous over the conventional buildings and is really helpful in the low rise building design.

Pre engineered buildings are generally low rise buildings however the maximum eave height can go upto 25 to 30 metres. Low rise buildings are ideal for offices, houses, showrooms,

shop fronts etc. The application of pre engineered buildings concept to low rise buildings is very economical and speedy. Buildings can be constructed in less than half the normal time

especially when complemented with the other engineered sub systems.

The most common and economical type of low rise buildings is a building with ground floor and two intermediate floor plus roof. The roof of low rise buildings may be flat or sloped. Intermediate floors of low rise buildings are made of mezzanine systems. Single storied

houses for living take minimum time for construction and can be built in any type of geographical location like extreme cold hilly areas, high rain prone areas, plain land

obviously and extreme hot climatic zones as well.

Applications of Pre Engineered Buildings (PEB)

1. WAREHOUSES

2. FACTORIES

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3. WORKSHOPS

4. OFFICES

5. GAS STATIONS

6. VEHICLE PARKING SHEDS

7. SHOWROOMS

8. AIRCRAFT HANGARS

9. METRO STATIONS

10. SCHOOLS

11. RECREATIONAL

12. INDOOR STADIUM ROOFS

13. OUTDOOR STADIUM CANOPIES

14. BRIDGES

15. RAILWAY PLATFORM SHELTERS

Advantages of Pre Engineered Buildings

REDUCED CONSTRUCTION TIME: Buildings are typically delivered in just a few weeks after approval of drawings. Foundation and anchor bolts are cast parallel with finished, ready

for the site bolting. Our study shows that in India the use of PEB will reduce total construction time of the project by at least 50%. This also allows faster occupancy and earlier

realization of revenue.

LOWER COST: Due to the systems approach, there is a significant saving in design, manufacturing and on site erection cost. The secondary members and cladding nest together reducing transportation cost.

FLEXIBILTY OF EXPANSION: Buildings can be easily expanded in length by adding

additional bays. Also expansion in width and height is possible by pre designing for future expansion.

LARGE CLEAR SPANS: Buildings can be supplied to around 80M clear spans.

QUALITY CONTROL: As buildings are manufactured completely in the factory under

controlled conditions the quality is assured.

LOW MAINTENANCE : Buildings are supplied with high quality paint systems for cladding and steel to suit ambient conditions at the site, which results in long durability and low

maintenance coats.

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ENERGY EFFICIENT ROOFING AND WALL SYSTEMS: Buildings can be supplied with polyurethane insulated panels or fiberglass blankets insulation to achieve required “U”

values.

ARCHITECTURAL VERSTALITY: Building can be supplied with various types of fascias, canopies, and curved eaves and are designed to receive pre cast concrete wall panels, curtain

walls, block walls and other wall systems.

SINGLE SOURCE RESPONSIBILTY: As the complete building package is supplied by a single vendor, compatibility of all the building components and accessories is assured. This is

one of the major benefits of the pre engineered building systems.

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Pre Engineered Buildings Vs Conventional Steel Buildings

PROPERTY PEB BUILDINGS CONVENTIONAL STEEL

BUILDINGS

STRUCTURE WEIGHT Pre engineered buildings are

on the average 30% lighter because of the efficient use

of steel. Primary framing members are tapered built up section. With the large

depths in areas of higher stress.

Primary steel members are

selected hot rolled “T” sections. Which are, in many

segments of the members heavier than what is actually required by design?

Members have constant cross section regardless of the

varying magnitude of the local stresses along the member length.

Secondary members are light weight roll formed “Z”

or “C” shaped members.

Secondary members are selected from standard hot

rolled sections which are much heavier.

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DESIGN Quick and efficient: since

PEB’s are mainly formed by standard sections and

connections design, time is significantly reduced. Basic design based on

international design codes are used over and over.

Each conventional steel

structure is designed form scratch with fewer design

aids available to the engineer.

Specialized computer analysis design programs

optimize material required. Drafting is also computerized using

standard detail that minimize the use of project

custom details.

Substantial engineering and detailing work is required

from the very basic is required by the consultant with fewer design aids.

Design shop detail sketches

and erection drawings are supplied free of cost by the

manufacturer. Approval drawing is usually prepared within in 2 weeks.

Extensive amount of

consultant time is devoted to the alterations that have to

be done.

PEB designers design and detail PEB buildings almost

every day of the year resulting in improving the

quality of designs every time they work

As each project is a new project engineers need more

time to develop the designs and details of the unique

structure.

DELIEVERY Average 6 to 8 weeks Average 20 to 26 weeks

FOUNDATIONS Simple design, easy to construct and light weight.

Extensive, heavy foundation required.

ERECTION SIMPLICITY Since the connection of compounds is standard the learning curve of erection

for each subsequent project is faster.

The connections are normally complicated and differ from project to project

resulting tin increasing the time for erection of the

buildings.

Periodic free of charge

erection is provided at the site by the manufacturer.

There has to be separate

allocation of labour for the purpose of erection.

ERECTION COST AND TIME

Both costs and time of erection are accurately

known based upon extensive experience with

similar buildings.

Typically, conventional steel buildings are 20% more

expensive than PEB in most of the cases, the erection

costs and time are not estimated accurately.

The erection process is faster and much easier with very less requirement for

Erection process is slow and extensive field labour is required. Heavy equipment

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equipment. is also needed.

SEISMIC RESISTANCE The low weight flexible frames offer higher

resistance to seismic forces.

Rigid heavy frames do not perform well in seismic

zones.

OVER ALL PRICE Price per square meter may

be as low as by 30 % than the conventional building.

Higher price per square

meter.

ARCHITECTURE Outstanding architectural design can be achieved at

low cost using standard architectural details and interfaces.

Special architectural design and features must be

developed for each project which often require research and thus resulting in higher

cost.

SOURCING AND COORDINATION

Building is supplied complete with all accessories including

erection for a single “ONE STOP SOURCE”.

Many sources of supply are there so it becomes difficult to co ordinate and handle the

things.

COST OF CHARGE ORDER PEB manufactures usually stock a large amount of that

can be flexibly used in many types of PEB projects.

Substitution of hot rolled sections infrequently rolled

by mills is expensive and time consuming.

Change orders are easily accommodated at all stages

of the order fulfillment process. Little or no material is wasted even if a

change order is made after fabrication starts.

Change orders that are made after the dispatch of hot

rolled sections result in increasing the time and cost involved in the project.

BUILDING ACCESSORIES Designed to fit the system with standardized and inter

changeable parts. Including pre designed flashing and trims. Building accessories

are mass produced for economy and are available

with the building.

Every project requires different and special design

fro accessories and special sourcing for each item. Flashing and trims must be

uniquely designed and fabricated.

FUTURE EXPANSIONS All project records are

safely and orderly kept in electronic format which

make sit easy for the owner to obtain a copy of his building record at any time.

It would be difficult to

obtain project records after a long period of time. It is

required to contact more than one number of parties.

Future expansion is very

easy and simple.

Future expansion is most

tedious and more costly.

SAFETY AND

RESPONSIBILTY

Single source of

responsibility is there because all the job is being done by one supplier.

Multiple responsibilities can

result in question of who is responsible when the components do not fit in

Page 8: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

properly, insufficient material is supplied or parts

fail to perform particularly at the supplier/contractor

interface.

PERFORMANCE All components have been

specified and designed specially to act together as a

system for maximum efficiency, precise fir and peak performance in the

field.

Components are custom

designed for a specific application on a specific job.

Design and detailing errors are possible when assembling the diverse

components into unique buildings.

Experience with similar buildings, in actual field

conditions world wide, has resulted in design improvements over time,

which allow dependable prediction of performance.

Each building design is unique, so predication, of

how components will perform together is uncertain. Materials which

have performed well in some climates may not do well in

other conditions.

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Design of Pre Engineered Buildings (PEB)

The main framing of PEB systems is analyzed by the stiffness matrix method. The design is based on allowable stress design (ASD) as per the American institute of Steel Construction

specification or the IS 800. the design program provides an economic and efficient design of the main frames and allows the user to utilize the program in different modes to produce the

frame design geometry and loading and the desired load combinations as specified by the building code opted by the user. The program operates through the maximum number of cycles specified to arrive at an acceptable design. The program uses the stiffness matrix

method to arrive at an acceptable design. The program uses the stiffness matrix method to arrive at the solution of displacements and forces. The strain energy method is adopted to

calculate the fixed end moments, stiffness and carry over factors. Numerical integration is used.

Design Cycle

The design cycle consists of the following steps:

1. Set up section sizes and brace locations based on the geometry and loading specified for

the frame design.

2. Calculate moment, shear, and axial force at each analysis point for each load combination.

3. Compute allowable shear, allowable axial and allowable bending stress in compression and tension at each analysis point.

4. Compute the corresponding stress ratios for shear, axial and bending based on the actual

and allowable stresses and calculate the combined stress ratios.

5. Design the optimum splice location and check to see whether the predicted sizes confirm to

manufacturing constraints.

6. Using the web optimization mode, arrive at the optimum web depths for the next cycle and update the member data file.

7. At the end of all design cycles, an analysis is run to achieve flange brace optimization.

Frame Geometry

The program has the capability to handle different types of frame geometry as follows

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Frames of different types viz. rigid frames, frames with multiple internal columns, single slope frames, lean to frames etc.

Frames with varying spans, varying heights and varying slopes etc.

Frames with different types of supports viz. pinned supports, fixed supports, sinking supports, supports with some degrees of freedom released.

Unsymmetrical frames with off centric, unequal modules, varying slopes etc.

User specified purlin and girt spacing and flange brace location.

Frame Loading

Frame design can handle different types of loadings as described below:

All the building dead loads due to sheeting, purlins, etc. and the self weight of the frame.

Imposed live load on the frame with tributary reductions as well.

Collateral load such as false ceiling, light fixtures, AC ducting loads, sprinkler systems and

many other suspended loads of similar nature.

Wind loads input such as basic wind speed or basic wind pressure that will be converted to deign wind pressure as per the building code specified by the user and shall be applied to the

different members of the building according to the coefficients mentioned in the codes prescribed by the user. The standard building codes like MBMA, UBC, ANSI, IS:875 part 3

etc are used fro this purpose.

Crane and non crane loading can be specified by the user and the program has the capability to handle these special loads and combine them with the other loads as required.

Page 11: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

Seismic loads corresponding to the different zone categories of various international codes can also be defined and combined with other load cases as required.Temperature loads can

also be specified in the form of different differential temperature value on centigrade and specifying the appropriate coefficient for the thermal expansion.Load combinations with

appropriate load factors can be specified by the user as desired.

Design Codes

Following are the main design codes generally used:

AISC : American institute of steel construction manual

AISI : American iron and steel institute specifications

MBMA : Metal building manufacturer’s code

ANSI : American national standards institute specifications

ASCE : American society of civil engineers

UBC : Uniform building code

IS : Indian standards

Design Criteria

DESIGN METHOD: Allowable stress design method is used as per the AISC specifications.

DEFLECTIONS: Unless otherwise specified, the deflections will go to MBMA, AISC

criteria and standard industry practices.

PRIMARY FRAMING: Moment resisting frames with pinned or fixed bases.

SECONDARY FRAMING: Cold formed Z sections or C sections for purlins or girts designed as continuous beams spanning over rafters and columns with laps.

LONGITUDANAL STABILITY: Wind load on building end walls is transferred through

roof purlins to braced bays and carried to the foundations through diagonal bracing.

DESIGN SOFTWARE

The latest software that is used for design is STAAD 2007.

DESIGN PROCESS

The frame data is assembled based on number of frame members, number of joints, number of degrees of freedom, the conditions of restraint and the elastic properties of the members.

Based on this, the data is stored and member section properties are computed. The overall joint stiffness matrix is obtained based on the above frame data by summation of individual

stiffness matrices considering all possible displacements. The load vector is then generated

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based on the loading data and the unknown displacements are obtained by inverting the overall joint stiffness matrix and multiplying with the load vector.

Knowing the free joint displacements

REPORT ON PLANT VISIT

DEPARTMENTS IN THE PLANT

PRODUCTION, PLANNING & CONTROL (PPC)

SHEARING

BUILT UP

FINISHING

COLD FORM

SHIPPING

QUALITY CONTROL

MAINTENANCE (ELECTRICAL)

MAINTENANCE (MECHANICAL)

PRODUCTION, PLANNING & CONTROL

The PPC department in our plant is headed over by Mr. C.M.PANDE. The PPC department

can be called to be the controller of all the other departments of our plant because it keeps a check on at what point of time what kind of work and how much work according to the

manpower available is to be given to a particular department. They also plan the releases as to how much tonnage is to be released on any given data. They also keep a proper record on daily, weekly, monthly basis that how much work is being done by which department and is

it fulfilling the criteria or not so as to ensure proper meeting up of the targets assigned. We also got to know about the manufacturing processes that how they take place in a sequent manner in our plant. They also made us aware of the system that how a BOQ and drawings

travels from the head office to the plant and then the work is actually distributed among the departments in the plant. The PPC department is using nesting software to prepare proper part

marks for eg. We get HR plates in a standard width of 1500 mm so nesting software tells us that what sized plates should be cut from that so as to minimize the scrap, this job is also done by the PPC and is known as part marking. The entire job in the plant is done according

to these part marks only. Also the job of maintaining the inventory of raw materials is done by the PPC department i.e. it has to keep a check on the quantity of raw materials available

and has to ensure that sufficient quantity of material is always available. Also it has to take care of the transport availability for dispatching the materials. PPC department works in co ordination with the every department like with accounts department.

Page 13: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

This informational post has been submitted to us by Er Gursharan Singh and then modified by Er Kanwarjot Singh. To see the presentation of the same click here.

Presentation On Pre Engineered Steel Buildings

More Entries :

Presentation On Pre Engineered Steel Buildings Steel Build Expo 2012

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What are the IS Codes used Functional Requirements In Buildings? A Comparative Study of Retrofitting Of R.C. Building Using Steel Bracing And Infill

Walls

Analysis and Design Of 2-D Tubular Frame Using USFOS Modeling What are the IS codes used for Construction Management?

Comments

datta nanasaheb dighe November 21, 2008 at 3:32 pm

is it possible ao design pre engineered buildings by using indian standered codes

Reply Link Quote

o Yesha Soni December 17, 2010 at 2:14 am

YEAH OFCOURSE..

Reply Link Quote

Kishan Shinde December 3, 2008 at 8:16 am

Can I get PEB alignment inspection procedure & IS standards for inspection PEB erection & Alingnment

Reply Link Quote

MANISH PRATAP SINGH December 9, 2008 at 10:08 am

Can I get PEB alignment inspection procedure & IS standards for inspection PEB erection & Alingnment

Reply Link Quote

Arvinderjit Singh December 14, 2008 at 7:52 am

Page 14: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

We want to get Amercian Codes for Designing of PEB

Reply Link Quote

o Er. Rakesh Sharma July 17, 2010 at 6:22 am

READ MBMA-96, 2007

Reply Link Quote

GETACHEW OKBAY January 24, 2009 at 6:47 am

our company would like to purchase a soft ware that could do design for

preengineered building structural analysis, shop drawing, erection drawing, BOQ, Anchor bolt plan etc automatic generation by computer, so would you please give us a

contact detail so that we will detail our communication. with retgards# Getachew Okbay

Reply Link Quote

Badrul Islam February 4, 2009 at 9:03 am

Can I get quality improvement procedure and Process improvement in PEB Section

With Regards

Badrul Islam

Reply Link Quote

Prem Shenoy February 9, 2009 at 12:18 am

While the Analysis of any Structure would be universal, designs need to be done as per the local/ regional codes.Other wise why different countries have different codes

of Practice? For example, If a PEB is built in India, The load calculations need to be as per the latest IS 875, the designs need to be as per IS800 for main frame members, as per IS 801 for thin rolled secondary members (Z and C purlins and Girts). If a

country does not have a code, the building may follow the UBC, or the code of a country near by IF suitable.

To make the superstructure most economical and very competitive, most of the PEB

vendors select the codes as per THEIR requirement. For example, for a structure built in India, they might calculate the loads as per IS 875, but do the design as per AISC or

MBMA and use welds as per AWS. If they feel that the Steel Section is lighter as per one code, they will adopt THAT clause of the code and select an equivalent clause of another code of another country. Some PEB vendors select some clauses of Previous

versions of the Code and other clauses of the Latest Versions ! This style is not the same every time. PEB Design teams are on constant research in the Selection of

Codal provisions of Variuos countries and are on trials with different clauses.

Page 15: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

This way of varied design is not legally valid. If the loads and Codes are not specified by the buyer, It is binding on the PEB supplier to use the Local/ Regional Codes of

practice. The evolution of a Code of Practice is based on the Weather & other climatic

conditions, Material, Local Practices, Skill levels at manufacturing,Transporting, Assembling,erecting, finishing and maintaining. Hence it is rediculus to use Indian Steel plate of any yield stress, Cut and manufactured in India, Loaded & transported

in Indian Style, Unloaded and stacked in Indian Style, Assembled & erected by Indian (skilled) Labour, Finished by Indian Painters using Indian paints, Maintained by

Indian Client in an Indian Town or village BUT DESIGNED USING AMERICAN CODE ! Most of the clients, Arcitects and Engineers in India feel that American Codes are Better than Indian!

Clients,Architects and Engineers in India, Beware! The Pre Engineered Buildings are

not a New Concept. But the Jumping-Code-Practice is the NEW Concept and STYLE. If you are not Sure of the Codes, DO NOT SIGN a Purchase order just copying the

Specifications given by the PEB Vendor. Just mention somewhere that the Latest Revisions of Indian Standard Codes should be followed. Luckily, India has all the codes available for the design of all the Parts of a PEB structure.

Premanand Shenoy. M.Tech,MIE,FIAStructE Structural Consultant and Managing Partner Roy and Shenoy, India.

Reply Link Quote

ravee March 6, 2009 at 8:22 am

hi all!

i have received the PEB’s reaction & moments there are 1. what are the load combinations to be considered 2. the vendor has given the Dead, collateral, Live, Wind_L1 seismic…. like this 16

loads which are the ones should i consider

3. can i get any example of the design of foundation system thanks in advance raveeleo

Reply Link Quote

varal pandu June 21, 2009 at 2:36 pm

could you please guide in my job hunting in pre-engineering metal building jobs in overseas as i am a detailing engineer with around 4 years of exp. presently associated with zamil steel,pune looking for future growth in same field

Reply Link Quote

HANS July 2, 2009 at 7:02 am

Page 16: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

Good impressive web site . We are a Turnkey service provider for Pre engineered and Pre fabricated steel

building . We would be interested to undertake projects of this kind .

Reply Link Quote

SHABEENA BEGUM August 9, 2009 at 12:00 pm

kindly give me the detailed design of a pre engineered building for a shed of 32m

span and80m length

Reply Link Quote

Roger - PEMB Dealer August 20, 2009 at 4:25 am

We would be pleased to provide PEMB sales support for any project in any country. We can ship worldwide our building systems.

If you can list required local codes we can meet or exceed any code.

We have all US codes on file currently.

Reply Link Quote

K.Rajaganapathi October 6, 2009 at 6:25 am

Dear Sir, I will learn pre engineered building design

Where is avilable this coruse Please mail adreess

Reply Link Quote

SURESHA.K October 25, 2009 at 3:53 am

DEAR SIR,

I WANT KNOW ABOUT MEASUREMENT OF AREA IN PEB IS FROM

CENTRE TO CENTRE LINE OF BUILDING OR IT IS FROM STEEL LINE TO STEEL LINE?

ALSO I WANT TO KNOW THAT WHILE FIXING RATE TO THE ERECTOR WHICH AREA WILL CONSIDER FOR PAYMENT. KINDLY DO THE NEED FULL. THANKS

Reply Link Quote

anshuman October 30, 2009 at 12:20 pm

Page 17: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

hi me anshuman .if possible pls guide me the required frame size in 30 mt span frame,x30 mt width.wht size of purlin req n how much distance-thanks n

regards.anshuman

Reply Link Quote

bapat & sons November 28, 2009 at 1:24 am

we have an enquiry for a industrial shed measuring 90mts x 30 mts with height of 10 mts in Aurangabad ( maharashtra ).

It will be our pleasure if we can work together& give offer for complete job.

waiting for reply.

thanking you

with regards

Reply Link Quote

sathishkumar.g December 25, 2009 at 9:15 pm

which std we have to follow for PEB fabrications.

Reply Link Quote

o Er. Rakesh Sharma July 17, 2010 at 6:37 am

1ST U CAN LEARN ABOUT THE DESIGN OF STEEL STRUCTURES, AS PER IS AND AISE (STEEL DESIGN) THEN STARTING LEARN OF

CODES FOR LOAD DESIGN IS 875 PART -I TO V. OR MAIL UR PROBLEMS IN MY E MAIL

Reply Link Quote

o Er. Rakesh Sharma July 17, 2010 at 6:38 am

IN THE FABRICATION U CAN USE FOR WELD AWS CODE AND FOR

STEEL AISE

Reply Link Quote

hani January 1, 2010 at 10:28 pm

planting concrete column on top of concrete slab ?for archtecture cange

Reply Link Quote

srinivas January 29, 2010 at 2:42 am

Page 18: 96382022 pre-engineered-buildings

we would like to purchase a soft ware that could do design for preengineered building structural analysis, shop drawing, erection drawing, BOQ, Anchor bolt plan etc

automatic generation by computer, so would you please give us a contact detail. and also let me konw 30mts span,300mts lenght,and 16mts clear heightand soil test report

is 13.near seashore

Reply Link Quote

basha February 2, 2010 at 1:45 am

i want to learn the design of pre engg buildings, can you let me know any standard institute where i can learn design (if possible in bangalore)

Reply Link Quote

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