A

Alternator V belt

Probably means your belts are old, glazed, and too loose. New belts are likely in order.(Just did mine 3 weeks ago, same symptoms; the alternator v-belt was a mess once I got itoff and flexed it, didn't even keep it as a backup). I used a trick I learned on this list (Ithink)...used a turnbuckle with curved ends bolted on as a spreader to put tension on thebelt, since you can't get a good prybar in there to crank the alternator tight enough.Worked great.Jim WattsParadigmC&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

Hi PaulI used a cheap galvanized hardware-store turnbuckle with an eye on each end, although anexpensive marine one with fork ends would work as well or better. I measured thediameter of the pulleys on the engine and the alternator (sized at bottom of v-groove) andcut pieces out of 1/4" plexi to fit the bottom of the grooves; bolted these onto the ends ofthe turnbuckle, with just enough slack in the system to be able to get the tool in betweenthe main pulley and the alternator pulley. Then turn the turnbuckle to open, which forcesthe alternator out from the engine. It may be necessary to tighten down the alternator andreposition the ends if you are driving it out a long way, since the tool does move. I usedplexi because I had it. 1/4" ply would work as well, there is really not a lot of pressure onthe end pieces. Once I had it measured out, it took me about ten minutes to build, andmakes life a lot easier. Lotsa luck.By the way, you may be stuck with the expensive Yanmar belt for the water pump, butyou can size in a standard auto V-belt for the alternator. 1/3 the price.Jim WattsParadigmC&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

Automotive aren't the only sources of belts. Industrial and refrigerationsupply houses are a definite and some very good hardware stores are also.The Yanmar 3GMF uses an A36 belt. I changed from the stock 35 amp alternatorand now use a A37. I'm going to try an AX37 this year. X belts have cogs andare supposed to run cooler, have more grip and longer life. My experiencewith them on fans would tend to agree with the claims. One of these days Ihave to get the water pump belt sized. Small belts like it are used onexhaust fans and draft inducers. There is nothing special about Yanmar belts

other than price.Tom DuaneC&C 34 "Chameleon"

B

Ball CapsWe now have available for delivery NEW C&C Yachts Ball Caps in various colors for$20 (includes taxes, shipping, handling, etc).

Also, personalized Owners Manuals CDs. "Autorun" CDs with Adobe Acrobat Reader, 1Owners Manual (your choice), Atomic 4 Service and Repair Manual, and ourScreensaver. We can scan a photo of your boat and put it on the CD and Case Cover.

Don't forget we still have 100% cotton sweat shirts with Logo and nylon burgees.

All profits generated from these sales are used to keep the Photo Album under full sail.

Stucommodore@cncphotoalbum.comC&C Photo Album & Resource Centerhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.com

Batteries

Kent,

We've had a pair of paralleled 12V 8D gel batteries in our last two boats,used as the house bank. Maybe we've been lucky, but we've enjoyed yearsof service from both (MANY years in our last boat. We have 12Vrefrigeration, and lived aboard our last boat on a mooring, charging withwind and solar sources. We needed the depth two batteries provided, andI've never seen a 6V gel cell. I've used the two in our last boat bothseparately and linked, and linked was less trouble for me. Didn't see anycharging differences, and I had both separately monitored with a Link2000R unit. My $.02 US...

David Romasco

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)C&C Landfall 42 "TRYST"Kent Island, MD

I may be confused here. How could you separately monitor 2 batteries in one bank withthe Link 2000R? Was your starting battery connected to the 2000R also?

Battery manufacturers recommend against paralleling batteries. If 1 cell drops by even .1volt, you can end up with 1 battery at 12.6 volts (normal full charge for lead acid battery)and the other at 12.5 volts. This is enough difference in potential to set up a completecircuit and start the batteries discharging (at a rate higher than their normal selfdischarge). IF the batteries are under a near continuous charge, then the added voltage andcurrent from the charging circuit will mostly mitigate the problem, but left alone on aboat, with no charge for, it can be a real problem.

Use of a unit like the Link 2000R, is usually with the 2 batteries are in 2 banks, isolatedbut able to be drawn from together.

Kent

You hit the nail on the head in your last line. I installed a sensor on each battery, andwould periodically isolate them to compare performance. I found no significantdifference over time (6 years on the last set, and when I saw a combination of slightlydifferent charge capacity and lower ultimate capacity, I replaced both and gave thebatteries to friends who may still be using them).

My starting battery was an older 8D gel cell (original house battery, and I had room forit). While I wouldn't have kept it as a house battery, it retained more than enough oomphfor starting purposes. No, it wasn't monitored; the Link 2000R only handled two sensors,as I recall. It's such a hypnotic piece of equipment that I probably would have if it wouldhandle it ( the Admiral recalls me sitting in front of the panel for hours, chuckling tomyself, on windy/sunny days; I maintain I wasn't obsessed....).

That last may relate to your point about constant charge. We had a Windbugger and a 75watt solar panel, and it was indeed a rare day when at least one of the charge ammeterswasn't up off the peg.

David- When batteries are purchased from the same manufacturing lot number--as isnormal when you buy two new batteries off the shelf at the same time--theyusually can be used in parallel without problems. Except for the problems caused

by one cell failure, or one corroded cable on the post, etc, causing them tobecome mismatched. This is all documented by the battery makers; Parallel *can* be done withoutproblems, but they still advise against it in general, simply because there are"possible" problems that simply cannot happen when you place two 6v batteries orsix 2v cells in series. (Two volts being a single cell, common in electric forklifts and other heavy amp equipment.)

Batter Circuits

In the 2000 West Marine Catalog, the advisor says, "we DON'T recommend the use of atraditional OFF-1-BOTH-2-ALL battery switch. Instead, consider using three OFF-ONswitches -- 1 switch to connect your starting battery to your starter circuit, 1 switch toconect your house battery to your boat's distribution pane, and 1 switch to parallel yourbatteries." They also have a battery isolator between the two batteries for chargingpurposes.

Has anyone done this and did you run into any problems? Are the switches available in a'toggle' type and where?Stu

The way our boat is wired the power from the alternator goes to abattery isolator. From there it goes to both batteries. The alternator 3step regulator by powerline senses the voltage from #1 battery + post.Both batteries have a wire going to the battery switch. Then to thepanel. If the battery switch is turned off there is no ill effect to thealternator. Stupid proof ?Brad

Dave,Connect your VOM (in the resistance mode, lowest range) from the #1

terminal to the common terminal.All battery wires should be removed for this test. With the switch in theOFF position, the meter should read infinite resistance (Over-range, etc.).When you switch to position #1, the meter should read very close to zero.Now SLOWLY switch to the BOTH position and the resistance should stay nearzero, and not blip up momentarily as the switch crosses between position #1and BOTH. Now connect the VOM between the #2 terminal and the commonterminal and repeat the test between switch position #2 and BOTH. Goodluck!Gary

S/V Expresso'75 C&C 35 Mk IIEast Greenwich, RI, USA

Bilge Smell

When I was commissioning my boat in 1991, there was a problem with the fueltank and when the mechanic took the sender out, the tank burped 30 gallonsof raw gasoline into the bilge of my new boat. We managed to get the gaspumped out without blowing the thing up and poured about 1 gallon of bilgecleaner (whatever brand he happened to sell) into the bilge. The boatinterior smelled awful and I posted No Smoking signs all over the place. 2weeks later and about 6 different makes of bilge cleaner later and we couldstill not sleep on the boat without getting a monster headache.

I talked to our head chemist at the time and begged for a solution. Heoutdid himself and we have been marketing his invention ever since. Theproduct is called Bilge Bath because it not only emulsifies the oil, greaseand fuel in the bilge with the water, so it can be pumped out (all bilgecleaners do that), but it also washes the sludge off the walls, withoutscrubbing. He added an odor counteractant that he called Odolime whichknocks out the smell of gasoline, diesel, salt water, dead fish, moldybikini or bottoms and even the overflow from holding tanks. Haven't tried iton dead bodies yet.

This Bilge Bath completely eliminated the smell of the gasoline within 2days. Several months later, when the intake hose popped off the holding tankwhen I was trying to pump 42 gallons into a 40 gallon tank, the Bilge Bathtook care of that disaster as well. The boat was useable the next day and noone ever knew. At the recent Toronto Boat Show, a bunch of wooden boatowners bought us out in 2 days. They said they used it in the past and itwas the only thing that got rid of the unique wooden boat bilge odor, if youknow what I mean. The commercial fishing guys on the East Coast are nowusing it, so I guess that's quite an endorsement.

This could be the solution, even if you do not know the exact cause as itsolves a lot of problems (except maybe the above mentioned dead body). Ifyou are still reading and want to know more, check out the web sitewww.auroramarine.com

Oh! and about the leaky windows thing. If you heat and pre-form the acrylicor polycarbonate to properly fit the opening, rather than bending it to

fit, you relieve the stress on the plastic so it won't leak, pop out orcrack. A couple of years back, there was an excellent How To Do It articlein multihulls. It was about building Bullet Proof port lights for off shoreboats. The key was to build a mold, put the plastic in the mold and placethe thing in your oven for a couple of hours. When it cooled, you had aperfect window that was easy to install and would last for almost ever.

Stu should put this article on his site for future reference as this subjectseems to come up at least 6 times a year.

Well enough of my hot air.

Pleasant Breezes.

Richard

Bosin's Chair

Steve,

You would actually be better served by using a 'double bowline on a bite' usedit in rescue work years ago and it was really nice "quick" seat.

NeilFoxFire - 1982 C&C32Wharton Creek, MD

Brass Refinishing

According to Practical Sailor (oh, that rag again?!) 3M Metal Polish is thebestest and fastest. I bought some, and it sure beats the hell out of Brassoand NevrDull and anything else I've ever used. However, hopefully, it'sbronze you're working on, since if it's brass, it will probably never lookgood again, having seen salt water.Jim WattsParadigmC&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

Hi Greg:

As promised, I found the stuff. I sprayed the brass with Aurora Algex, abottom cleaner especially made for aluminum, let it sit for about 60 sec.and rinsed it off. I then sprayed some Aurora Kwik Shine (a spray on polymercleaner/ polish that converts sea salt into a cleaner polish), rubbed it onlightly and buffed it up. The brass looks like gold. I didn't try addingsalt to the Kwik Shine. It might even reduce the labor or improve the shine.

A word of caution; You may wish to do your bell when friends and family arenot present. My wife was so impressed that she dug up a bunch of old brassplanters and nick knacks from our basement and gave me permission to polishit all this Saturday. Some of the office staff are also bringing in theirbrass so I can clean and polish it for them, since it was so easy to do.I've put the lot on notice that I am limiting my generosity to 6 pieces,which will give me an opportunity to experiment with adding salt to the KwikShine. After that they can do their own.

If you need more information on these products, it's onhttp://www.auroramarine.com

No, I'm not going into business and will not accept any brass for cleaningand polishing regardless of the challenge or the promise of remuneration.

Bottom Paint

non-marine Peel-Away

Frank- http://www.peelaway.com is their web site and they have MSDS listings for allproducts. The first Marine Grade listing is a totally different chemical fromthe first regular listing (which is part lye). I would guess that the MarineGrade stuff is compounded with more aggresive chemicals to break up the exoticmaterials that some boats are painted with, i.e. polyurethanes, vinyls, epoxies. Try a small bucket of the cheap stuff if you just have "plain" bottom paint,how much can you lose, it can always be used to strip something else.<G>

Two quotes from Practical sailorA peel away handout says it also offers safe removal of marine coatings withNO damage to the fiberglass cost $15.95 per gallon -29.95 vs $43 for the

marine stuff. - found at wood workers Warehouse

Peel Away works best . Peel Away 1 is considerablely less expensive andappears to work just as well .Soy gel and West MarineStrip would be our next choices.Good LuckRoss

Glenn: I've used it, the non-marine Peel-Away, as sold inHome Depot and Lowes, many times to take off all thebottom paint. Works very well, does no damage to thegel coat at all. No softening of it, nothing, zilch.Called the manufacturer when I first used it. Andreceived multiple reassurances it wouldn't hurt thegel coat. It doesn't. And I'll be using it again, inabout three weeks, to strip all the bottom paint of a32fter. You still have to sand the bottom to give the newbottom paint or epoxy coating, whatever you're puttingon, some tooth, and to ensure the bottom is absolutelyclean. The key to using it is to prevent the gel fromdrying out, so coverage with the paper is paramount.And don't allow air bubbles to form under thepaper--the gel willdry out under it.Hope this has helped,Bob D.

Practical sailor refers to it as Peel Away 1.

Kate - Don't know if you're responding to something I wrote earlier, but Iburnished Gremellyn's 600 grit wet-sanded VC Offshore with bronze wool onthe hook and loop pad of my AEG (now Milwaukee) 6" random orbital sander atit's lowest speed so as to not generate much heat. Sorry that your'sdoesn't have variable speed (really?), but burnishing it this way is sooooeasy. Gremellyn's bottom is as smooth as....Splashed her yesterday, and just got back from the first Wednesday nightbeer can race!Cheers, Greg

Kate - Sorry, should have read this one before I sent the one that's justgoing on line. Anyway, I've been using a random orbital with dust pickup

for 8 years now. My German AEG is incredible...light, powerful, and fast,but most importantly much safer for you and the environment. If you buy abigger unit, get one with dust pickup so that you can connect it to ashopvac. You will no longer turn into a smurf (blue dust) during sanding(still wear a good dust/filter mask, gloves, googles, and tyvek suit withhood), keeping the boats around you and the nearby water much cleaner. Anadded advantage is that the dust pick up makes the sanding discs lastlonger as they don't clog up as fast. Don't go cheapo on the sander..get 6"and industrial quality as they are built to last (my AEG is 8 years old),are more ergonomically designed, and lighter...easier to use. Also, holdthe thing and imagine sanding some parts of your boat, like near thekeel-hull radius...will it work? If not try holding and imagining the samewith another.Happy consumerism, Greg

C

Charting softwareGlen,most laptops will work off a small inverter using the regular AC connection.The one I use is an inexpensive 300 watt unit available from many marine ordiscount stores. My particular laptop operates from the battery so the ACconnection only charges the battery filtering out the non-sine wave outputof inexpensive inverters.

Many Laptop suppliers also have 12VDC connection devices also.

I'll also add, there are many devices for matching up your electronics, GPS,instruments... etc, in the catalogs now. NEMA 0183 signal voltage levelsdon't exactly match RS 232 inputs and outputs of the laptop so its best touse an interface to insure the information is transfered relieably. Lookingin the new defender catalog there are a couple of boxes mention. As in ourcase, Raytheon makes a box to convert seatalk data to the computer.

At first we used a handheld Magellan Colortrak with an external antennasuction cupped to a cabin widow and a data cord for the GPS to the computer.Now a JRC Diff/GPS receiver is attached to the back rail and hooked to aseatalk connection.

Compass Repairs

Klaus,I saw your note asking after compass oil on the C&C list. FYI, there is afellow here in southeast Michigan who does an excellent job of restoring andrebuilding compases. He did my Ritchie Globemaster a couple of years ago,and it came out looking like new, for a quarter the price of a new compass.

His name is Vincent Crane, and his phone number is (810)778-1674. He worksout of his home, at 22441 Statler St., St. Clair Shores, MI 48081.

Tim MetcalfC&C 41 "Insatiable"Troy, MI

Cutlass Bearing

Hi Ed, Have done what you are going to do and it was one of the easier jobs that i have doneon our 29. The hardest part is getting the shaft out of the coupling as in our case it was 22years in there. We made a clamp that had two bolts come out on either side parallel ofthe shaft and by turning each bolt a turn we pushed the shaft out of the coupling tookabout 15 minutes 5 minutes to climb in 5 minutes to undo and 5 minutes to come out.The bearing is press fitted in and to boot there are two allan screws in the strut holdingthe bearing. We press fitted our bearing out after finding out afterwards there where toallen screws holding the bearing. No damage to the strut but the old bearing was scored.Needless to say we drilled out the filler and undid the allan screws. We then undid thestuffing box and removed the hose and assembly. What an interesting surprise we found.The fiberglass tube where the hose clamps on was a different size then the log assemblyand to boot the hose was 1/8 to big for the log and 1/4 of an inch to big for the fiberglasstube. You want a hose that has no wire reinforcing in it rather just a mesh and notexhaust hose as that is way to flexible. Usually 4 to 6 layers of mesh with a heavycoating of rubber ours was 1/4" thick wall and we matched it to the fiberglass tube andbeforehand shoved it on the log assembly. Of course double clamping with Awab clampsis a must. The packing we redid with the flax since it lasted for 22 years the first time.The one thing that we did do is put on that paste that west marine sells for 50.00 bucksand comes in a film canister. Yes a film canister! Thought behind it was that you canhave a drip less packing and they claim your engine can get 100,000 hours on it. If weget 1000 hrs in my life time i'd be impressed but nonetheless no more leaks is what iwanted without going to the expense of a PYI. Next put the shaft log assembly with the

hose already on it back on the fiberglass tube but do not clamp the hose to the tube yet asthe shaft going through will move it a little which nicely aligns the stuffing box. Nextshove the shaft back through the cutlass bearing and then through the shaft log assemblyinto the coupling. To get the shaft into the coupling take a rubber mallet and tap at thepropellor end to shove into coupling. Oh align key way with coupling. Next put your firstring of packing into the stuffing box coated in that green slim then one ring of the puttysupplied with that kit and last but not least the last ring of packing again coated in thegreen slime. Take the shaft log nut that is sitting on the shaft and tighten by hand the nutonto the log until you can't turn anymore (usually about 3 turns) then take your wrenchand tighten one more turn and that's it. Now turn the shaft around from the outside to seethat everything is smoothly turning. Now the last step and one i almost forgot, tighten thetwo hose clamps unto the fiberglass tube and use seizing wire to secure the bolt on thecoupling. We did this four years ago and she's been running smooth as a baby's bottomever since.

EdI just replaced my cutlass bearing last Saturday in Ontario.It was not warm, about 20'F.I used a hack saw to cut it in 2 locations, 1/2 inch apart,fore and aft. I then chipped it out with a screw driver.Easy job.

I then went to a store and picked up a new one.I found it to be about 1/16" too big.No way would it ever fit.…I chilled it in ice, (lots available) and it theneasily fit the strut. Could not believe how muchit shrunk. Try this trick, it will help your installation.

I lubricated it with corrosion block,and used the bolt and washer technique to pull thenew one in. Easy job.

I also spent an hour sanding the strut, lookingfor the set screws that hold the bearing in place.Guess what, no set screws, just compression fit.But the bronze strut looks great now!

Is it not great that we have 5 months to play with ourboats on the hard.

Larry JensenRock & Roll foreverC&C 39 BHYCOakville On

In Canada, it all depends in which province you reside. Some have laws formechanical work, some do not. I have replaced the cutless bearingon my C&C 30 twice in the past few years, once because of wear and again when Ichanged from an Aromic 4 to a diesel. I removed the shaftand prop both times and followed the instructions given in "This Old Boat by DonCasey" for removing the coupling from the shaft. Takes alot of patience and time but it works. After the shaft was removed, I cut theold cutless bearing in pieces with a hacksaw blade and chisledit out of the strut using a small screwdriver and/or chisel. Don't forget toremove the set screws. Mine had two. I installed the newbearing by cooling it in a freezer overnight, placing it in place and forcing itin with a puller. No problem, just don't have too muchmercy when trying to remove the old bearing. Don't hammer on the strut as youcould damage the strut and the hull. Pullers work best. As forreplacing the cutless bearing without removing the shaft, I wouldn't evenconsider it. There are too many things to go wrong. Murphy isalways waiting for a chance to jump.

Only can speak to the removal of the shaft coupling, having just done thatfor a PYI Shaft Seal install

1. Loosen your stuffing box or equivalent.2. Remove any inboard or outboard zincs.3. Mark both halves of coupler so you can line them up on reinstall.4. Unbolt coupler5. Give a good soak in penetrating agent of choice6. Place a spacer between the two halves of coupler, resting on the shaftend.7. Using longer bolts, bolt the two halves back together. Make sure to putno more than a quarter to half turn on each bolt in turn so that you do notdistort the coupler.8. Keep going. This will press out the shaft from the coupler. You willmore than likely have to swap out the original spacer for a longer one asyou go. You will likely have to swap the bolts for ones of differentlengths, depending on which spacer you are using and how far you have itpressed.9. Once the coupler is off, you can theoretically remove the shaft. I donot know your rudder situation, so I do not know if that will get in theway.Good luck.Michael Hennessy

"Indigo" 1987 35 III

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that you have to remove the set screws!

D

Deck Delamination

Has anyone taken this kind of job on? I've got delamination around thechainplates and elsewhere on a 1981 C&C 36. I guess I have three basicquestions:

1)Do I drill and pump in epoxy, or remove the skin and replace the balsa?2)How thick is the skin (deck)?3) How thick is the Balsa?

Thanks.Dave Mallach

Hi Dave,

I am planning on doing the same thing to my '76 C&C 27. Here's what I havelearned to date. If the rot isn't too bad, you can get by with using the"Swiss Cheese" method you are describing. Personally, I am going to trythis using CPES as marketed by "Rot Doctor". You can find out more atwww.rotdoctor.com. Once drilling the holes, you will need to dry out thedeck for at least a couple weeks. You can assist the drying by flooding theholes with acetone, which will then evaporate, taking some of the water withit. Some have said that the epoxy will not re-attach the bond between thebalsa and the core, others seem to disagree. My area of delamination is notparticularly large (say 12x20 inches), and the CPES is supposed to be betterat seeping deeper into the wood, stopping further rot. Sorry, I knownothing about the thicknesses. Personally, I'd LOVE to do it by removingthe head liner in the head area and drilling from below if at all possible,but it seems like no one knows if removing the head liner is reasonablyeasy.

So, I'll ask the question again... Any out there ever removed the head lineron a mid-70's C&C 27?

Any other comments?Thanks!Bruce

I am in the middle of doing this job on a C&C 34 which was wet around one of the chainplates. I cut the top skin of the deck out using a saber saw (be careful with your depth,)and then scooped out the old wet balsa. I have removed everything that is wet or evenremotely wet, working back until it was all dry. If you go back far enough and get closeto the genoa track, you will run into a plywood stringer that runs under that track to givesupport. I have had to shorten mine by about 4 inches because it was wet and it willnever dry. I intend to install new balsa, and then 3 layers of glass. 1 layer 1-1/2 oz mat, 1layer 18 oz bi-axial stitch mat and another layer of 1-1/2 oz mat. I have been told thatyou should use polyester resin and not epoxy because you will not be able to get the gelcoat to adhere to the epoxy (don't know this as fact but am not willing to take chances.). Iwill then top off with fairing compound and have someone with a bit of experience do thegel coat non-skid.

The top layer of deck skin is only about 1/4 inch. The balsa is about 3/4.

I have never done anything like this before so can not comment on the drill and pumpmethod.

By the way, you have to find a way to keep the work area at least 55-60 degrees until theglass cures. I will be heating the boat with 2-3 space heaters and I have a enclosed coveron the boat.

good luck

Colin

At the risk of being somewhat contrary, you might want to reconsider theepoxy concept. Polyester resin does not bond well to old polyester resin asa secondary bond. However, epoxy resin bonds extremely well to polyesterresin of whatever age. I would not use polyester resin as a fix fordelamination if epoxy resin is available; epoxy is far stronger and willbond to old poly resin and new poly resin won't. Whether gelcoat willadhere to the epoxy resin is kinda secondary here, since you are doingstructural repair; make the strongest repair and find something to bond toit (I think poly gelcoat will adhere better to a good epoxy fix than it willto a bad poly fix. My opinion after working with a lot of polyester andepoxy resins. I'll take West System epoxy over everything else I've tried sofar). If nothing else, epoxy will saturate into dampish balsa and polyesterwon't. Also, you can use a cold-cure West hardener to cure it up even if itis just above freezing. Wow, that's confusing; buy the West Systemfiberglass repair handbook before you do anything final.Jim WattsParadigm

C&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

I have done many repair jobs on fiberglass over the past thirty-six years, andhave never had any problems bonding polyester resin to "old" polyester resin. Ihave even had to bond chain plates to a hull, and they came out stronger thanwhen the boat came from the factory. Some people have a problem when they tryto bond to sanding resin without sanding and wiping with an acetone soaked ragfirst. Sanding resin has wax in it so that it will cure without remainingsticky. Laminating resin has no wax in it, and remains sticky, thus allowingnew layers to bond without sanding in between layers.

Alan Bergen35 Mk III, "Thirsty"

Two years ago we had to deal with moisture around Savannah`s chain plates.We were fortunate in several ways, but primarily that Savannay doesn`t spendher winters in the cold, no sireee... a nice warm hangar for her. Anyway,the temp on the floor was 70, but the temp at deck level (Savannah was onher trailer) must have been 80. We drilled about 15 holes by each stantion( until we hit dry balsa). We were careul to drill through the top layer offibreglas and the balsa only...didn`t go through the bottom layer of glass.We then went into the holes with a bent nail to "rotoroot" a larger area ofbalsa out. Used a vacuum to suck out the debris. Then we let the boat dryfor 3 months. Shortly before launch we filled the holes with staight epoxyresin (no stifeners) and finished off with a dab of 2 part paint the we hadmixed ( and deglossed) to match the deck. I guess the area around the chainplates are probably the strongest part of the boat.Now that Savannah`s gone I have all these weekends with nothing to do butpack and get ready to move to where you do this winter sailing stuff.JohnBoatless

I'm going to backtrack somewhat on my statements here, after checking myreferences, most of which say that for non-structural repairs, such asdelaminating decks, polyester resin works fine. However, structural repairs,such as chainplates, would be much stronger with epoxy. The explanation Ireceived is that the existing polyester resin ("old") has finishedcrosslinking and new polyester resin does not bond to it with the samestrength. Even in original construction, if the hull laminates have beenallowed to cure over a certain time limit, a secondary bond such as bulkheadtabbing will be weaker than the primary layup. Epoxy resin has much higherpeel strength when applied to older polyester laminates. It also has theadvantage of much wider temperature and humidity limits with the appropriate

resin/hardener combinations. Regardless of which you use, I agree thatgrinding down to clean unwaxed glass and the use of lots of acetone and ragsis necessary.Jim WattsParadigmC&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

Last winter I performed a complete refit , delamination repair's and newgelcoat on my 1975, 27mkIII. As soon as the boat was out of the waterI removed all the hardware {everything}and then cut out all the obviousspot's,cracked or split,useing a small hammer I inspected the entiredeck and cabin top ,anything that sounded hollow was marked to bechecked later.I then drilled small holes in these spots makeing sure notto go throught the bottom layer of fibrglass. Balsa is a light colouredwood so anything that comes out dark is probably rotten,so I removedmore of the deck,top layer.If you have any craking in the gelcoat,alongthe teak hand rail's there is probably watersitting in a small void were the vertical part of the cabin ,which hasno core ,change's to the horizontal part of the deck which does have acore,any were there is a texured or suregrip finish on the deck thereseem's to be a wood core.The core is end grain so the wood is about 3/8" thick and about 4"x4" itworks better to remove the entire piece and replace it .I covered theboat for the winter and let her dry out.In Feb I fit new piece's of woodfor the core ,I was all ready for warm weather.In March dureing warmsuuny day's,useing west epoxy I laminated the new core in and filled allthe hole's I had drilled and ,put three layer's of new cloth.I had aBody repaireman come out and fare out the curved part just below thehand rail. Next was new gelcoat ,all the suregrip gelcoat had to beground off,the new stuff went on with a foam brush and just before itwas dry ,rolled with a 4" roller to make it stand up. I used aninterlux paint for the rest of the deck. Launch day was early May andshe was all ready. James Suffel. That was last winter,this winter ,only two visit's Hope this Help'sSaltfly@aol.com wrote:>> Has anyone taken this kind of job on? I've got delamination around thechainplates and elsewhere on a 1981 C&C 36. I guess I have three basicquestions:>> 1)Do I drill and pump in epoxy, or remove the skin and replace the balsa?> 2)How thick is the skin (deck)?

> 3) How thick is the Balsa?>> Thanks.> Dave Mallach>

Sounds good to me, although I would put a layer of epoxy and chopped glass (akamishmash) below the hole area along with a chunk of 3/4" marine plywood (Bruynzeel ifyou have some lying around) to further spread the load out to intact glass. With a doubleset of holes there already, you don't want to have a cut-on-the-dotted-lines effect, andalthough the plywood backing which is there is probably strong enough, why takechances? You could then get away with stainless fender washers instead of anotherbacking plate for the bolts. I would put some filler in the epoxy in the holes you are fillingto give it some strength, since straight epoxy is quite brittle. I am fond of 40-grit belt-sander dust myself, preferably from white oak. Probably doesn't matter what you use, aslong as there is lots of long-grain particles in it (not teak - too oily). Sometimes I sand theheck out of a piece of scrap wood just so I can get some good filler out of the dust bag.West System is my first choice for epoxy.PS I don't work for Bruynzeel and can hardly spell it, but it is the best plywood in theworld. Guaranteed not to delaminate after 24 hours in boiling water. As someone said, "Ifyou don't build your boat out of Bruynzeel, don't boil it".

Jim WattsParadigmC&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

Neil - Just replaced 2 winches on Gremellyn in November and pretty much didthe same thing. First, fill the existing holes with west epoxy andcolloidal silica to thicken and strengthen it (Put masking tape below theholes). Once you've positioned the new winches where you want them, drillone hole, put in screw to hold it in place, then drill the others...thiswill ensure that you don't miss drill. Now overdrill the holes ca.1/16-1/8" and then coat the holes with epoxy and just a little colloidalsilica (you can completely fill them, or just make sure you nearly fillthem with small opening to be the new pilot hole). This ensures that thehole is really strong and now water can enter the laminate. Now place thebase back on and drill the holes to the proper diameter.I use 1/4" alumimum plate for a backing since wood can rot, etc. However, Ithink you'll find that C&C laid up the coaming very thick with many glasslayers so that you can get away with no backing plate, just fender washers.I still use an Al backing plate and fender washers though. Remember tochaulk the holes and plate using a polysulfide chaulk (like LifeCalk), nota silcone (doesn't seal well) of polyurethane (never get off), but DON'T

let any excess get into the winch.Later, Greg

Hi Joe,

The issue with cutting out a section of deck vs using the "Swiss Cheese"method is that when reattaching the piece of deck, you need to first, epoxyit all in place, then sand a wide "V" (probably 3-4" either side of thecut), then layer fiberglass & epoxy into the V, and once you have 3 or 4layers of fiberglass in place and smoothed out, then re-finish the deck inthat area. By drilling a few (and its really not all that many with theCPES) and trying out the deck, even if you're working from above, you fillthose limited number of holes with epoxy and touch up the holes with paint.With quotes from boatyards, its the difference between a $600 job and a$2,500 job.

By removing what I hoped to be an easy-to-remove headliner, I could drillthe holes from below, and allow it to dry out that way as the boat iscurrently stored by the previous owner outside in a yard with the stick up.This would keep me from having to have the stick removed and the boat tarpedwhile the deck dried out.

Fair winds,Bruce

Hello all,

Thought I would give you an update - I got to the boat on Saturday and foundthe core was finally dried out enough to seal it. We injected about a pintof CPES into the holes using a plastic syringe I was able to get from adoctor I know. Some holes took just a little, others took 3-4 syringes fullof the stuff, and then ended up with flow coming out of other holes. TheCPES from http://www.rotdoctor.com is pretty thin stuff and is supposed tomigrate or get absorbed at least 5" from the injection sites, so it shouldsolidify the rotting core well. After about 15 minutes the stuff wasgetting all sticky on my hands and in the syringe, so it looks like itshould do the job nicely. Next will be to fill the holes with Laminating &Layup resin, which is supposed to be thicker and flow into the voids,restoring the strength of the deck. Any way about it, it sure beats takingoff a section of the deck!

Since they suggest using a turkey baster or a syringe for putting the resinin anyway, I think I'll drill the holes from the bottom on the other sideand give it a try - there's only a little delamination there, so it shouldbe easier.

Though I can't compare the rotdoctor stuff to West System because I haven'ttried West, it seems the RotDoctor stuff will sink deeper into the wood,giving better protection.Fair Winds,

Just to lead in to this, I am a customer, and am not affiliated with the RotDoctor or their products. Here's my experience and why IMHO, you shouldconsider these people vs West or buying from the manufacturer.

First, a little history - my C&C 27 had an area of deck delamination about12 x 18 " in size around the port chainplates and pump-out fitting. I wastold by the surveyor that I could fix it using the "swiss-cheese" method ofdrilling holes, drying out the core and injecting resin. Local quotes fromboatyards were $500-$600, but a number of them wanted to talk me intoremoving the deck and replacing the coring, which of course, would be MUCHmore expensive - one estimated about $2,500. I decided to use this methodrather than removing the deck due to the low cost and ease of the job. Now,here's the thing...

1). The website at http://www.rotdoctor.com was one of the mostcomprehensive on the subject that I could find. It was good information tohave even if I didn't buy their product. Those sites are few and far betweenas most of you know.

2). I sent them an e-mail back in the fall, then again in the spring, andfinally asked them a question just a few minutes ago. Each time, I had aresponse within just a few hours. Each time they answered my questions andmore, providing me with even more individualized answers.

3). When I called to place my order, they spent even more time answeringquestions, as I was nervous about drilling holes in my boat.

4). When I followed the directions, the job was easy, and having gotten boththeir CPES resin and L&L resin on a few things (which is inevitable in sucha repair), I am convinced that the CPES will penetrate the wood asadvertised and freeze the rot, and the L&L resin has flowed smoothly intothe remaining areas to provide the structural support as needed. In short, Iam quite sure it will work as advertised.

5). These people probably spent and hour and a half of their time answeringe-mails and questions, packing the stuff in boxes, & shipping it out. All

for probably about an $80 order. Even if they have a 100% markup, $40 wouldnot have been too much to spend for making this job relatively painless andgiving me a sense of satisfaction that yes, I could do the job withoutpaying $500 to some yard guy who probably wouldn't have treated the job withas much TLC as I did. Heck, they even told me when I DIDN'T need to buytheir product, and suggested other (cheaper) alternatives.

Sure, you might find equal or similar products for a little less, but theirservice was definitely worth it, and the products were really very good.

Hope this is of value to some of you facing wood rot problems.Fair Winds,Bruce

Deck Leaks

Hi Greg,Here is one way to find your hidden deck leak. Close all your ports andhatches and tape closed any remaining obvious cracks, seams and openings. Nowpressurize the cabin by reversing the air flow of a vacuum cleaner from theexterior of the boat. You can tape the hose into a small vent opening if youhave one. In a bucket, mix up a batch of dishwashing liquid and water andstart spreading the soapy water around all suspect areas on deck. You'lllocate leaks when large bubbles start forming where air is escaping throughthe deck or fittings. Foolproof and its cheap. Hope this helps.

Ted DrossosC&C 29 mkII H OT 2

Deck Reinforcements

Ralph, Do you have the three bolt holed stanchion bases (two machine screws gothrough the toe rail and one through the deck)? If so then you may be interested

in what we did to our 27 to stiffen up the stanchions a few years ago. First off on the 27 the inner bolt goes through solid glass. The coringbegins about an inch further inboard and I would think the construction stylewould be the same on your 32. There was no structural damage to our deck, buthad some gelcoat cracking around the bases and the stanchions were less thansolid. We made up some 23/4 x 41/2 x 1/16 in. stainless steel plates to go underthe base just inside the toe rail and increased the aluminum backing plates onall three screws to 1 1/4 x 2 3/4 in. The stainless steal plates were just bigenough to hide the gelcoat cracks and combined with the larger backing platesreally stiffened things up. Use plenty of Sika-Flex under the plates and aroundthe screws to keep water out. Hope this helps.Norm1982 C&C 27

Diesel Maintenance

George,I would recommend at least two additional measures:

1.) While your posting doesn't specify, I assume you've only got the basicfactory filter system. Add an additional filter, such as a Racor. Theywill filter as low as 2 microns (most engine primary filters have astartlingly higher porosity) and trap virtually all water before it gets toyour expensive fuel pump and injectors. I've been involved in managingcommercial diesel plants for years, and the very best maintenance forinjectors and fuel pumps is to feed 'em the cleanest fuel possible, thendon't touch them! The Racor models with a transparent settling bowl willgive you visual evidence of some of the glop taken out, and can be fittedwith a suction gauge that will tell you pretty quickly if you've got ablockage in the making. Peace of mind at the wheel on those stormypassages, when you can glance down and see the state of your filter, I cantell you. Since you've already had some junk in the system, I'd considerpulling the injectors AFTER installing a Racor or equal filtration system,and then having a good diesel shop run a spray test on the injectors toensure the tips are clear. I'd only worry about the fuel pump only if theengine runs roughly AFTER the injectors have tested out OK.

2.) Add a biocide (such as Biobor) every time you tank up. It won't stopwater, but it will kill the beasties that appear as black goop. I've

entered tanks on ships where we had to literally shovel out the knee-deepslime. Be careful! Most biocides are exactly that: potent toxins indeed.I've had quite good experiences with keeping slime out of new tanks, and itwill kill off the bugs in old tanks, although you should pump out the bottomlayer of sludge after a few applications.

You can't go wrong if you feed a diesel clean fuel and change the oilregularly. Good luck!

David Romasco~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)

Dodger

If you really want a really first rate dodger with a long life expectancy,you might consider the Wavestopper by Seawind. Try www.mypid.com/seawind.This is a hard dodger with removable side curtains. I have seen several andbeen very inpressed. They are made in Bellingham, Wa. but they have dealersaround the country.The cost is about double a canvas dodger. Wish I could afford one.

Dave " Webfoot " 37KCB

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Email Archives

Hi allProwling through the net, 3 AM wide awake, discovered that Sailnet has an archive of thelist since it's last server incarnation. For all the AOL and @home crowd who keepmissing things, you can search by date or by thread. It's a handy resource for peoplelooking for info about keel smiles, window leaks, and all the other things that keepcoming up yet one more time. It's athttp://members.sailnet.com/email_archives/although you'll want a fast connection to browse it liesurely, since the index is over a megand it takes a while even with cable. It's amazing the things you can find when you'retrying to lull yourself to sleep.Jim WattsParadigmC&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

Epoxy barrier Coat

Dear Frank:Having done this job myself several years ago, you'll find thatit's not really practical to move the stands during the process.

Use Interlux Interprotect 2000........pretty much the standard barrier coating.The process requires you to recoat 5 times with not more than a 2 hour lapsein the process. It also means that you have to have 12 hours of daylight andnice weather.......I started at 5 in the AM on Saturday, e.g. If you allowthe coat to dry past that time, you have to scuff it up with sandpaper beforeapplying the next coat. and at the end, you have to get a coat of bottompaint on in the last 2 hour interval as well, that's why 12 hours.......

Use a different color for the bottom paint first coat......then go to yourpreferred color. That way when the bottom paint wears through to the firstcolor, you'll know it's time to replace it......without exposing the barriercoat layer.........

Paint the barrier coat up to around the stand pads........leave about a footaround them for the first coat of bottom paint........when all is dry....thenhave the stands moved. feather the stand area for the multiple coats ofbarrier paint.....you can do bottom paint on the rest while waiting, and thenfeather the bottom paint into the pad area and finish with bottompaint...........

The whole process took a very well planned weekend.......and I never had todo it again, the bottom paint held up for over 4 years...........then soldboat....

You can do it.......Good luck Ron Casciato

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FloorBoards Teak and Holly

The first time I refinished my floorboards, the C&C factory was still in business. I calledthem and asked for their recommendation and they told me they used Cetol Interior Clear- Satin from Sikkens. I used the same thing, put on about 5 coats (plus a coat of regularcetol on the underside) and I've been very happy. Note: Used 2 part epoxy to fill some of

the dings (after taping) and that seemed to work pretty well. Be careful on sanding;there's not much teak and holly before you get to marine plywood.

Bob RudaryGrand SlamC&C 34+

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Garhauer Vang

John,After I installed my Garhauer vang, I realized it had almost too much purchase,and talked to Garhauer at another boat show. They said "send it back ANYTIMEand we will adjust it for you. Now have I? No. But it works fantastic, so Ileave things as they are. I think if you state to them exactly what you wouldlike, they will make it to your specifications. Pretty neat, huh?

Now, the forces on the boom gooseneck is another animal altogether. Yes, I didbreak my gooseneck in a uncontrollable gybe in 25 knots, AFTER the main firstsnapped off the traveler. Yes, read OUCH! as well as $$ka ching$$! My guessis after the main broke from the traveler the twisting forces from the vangcracked the gooseneck. This all happened in 1999. I now have a new stainlesssteel gooseneck, a Harken traveler, and a 6:1 Lewmar mainsheet system. But thedifference in main handling is soooooo much easier!!!

I can send jpg photos (off the list) to anyone who would like to see the setup.

Regards,Tom AndersonC&C 32 NonpareilMarblehead, MAnonpareil@mediaone.net

John -- I purchased and installed a Garhauer rigid vang on my 1981 30mkI atthe beginning of last season. It cost something like $160 (!!!) and is aBEAUTIFULLY manufactured piece of gear (all polished stainless, and comes withall line and blocks). I ordered it after seeing it at the Strictly

Sail/Chicago show. It was a breeze to install, and, considering the limitedathwartships movement on the 30mkI's traveler, I think it has contributedquite a bit to control of my main, especially when running offwind. I wouldrecommend it to any C&C'er in a minute -- it's hard to believe they can makethis product at this price. But it seems to be true of most Garhauerproducts. The benefits of selling direct, I guess...

Fred Street -- MinneapolisS/V Oceanis ('81 C&C30) -- Bayfield, WIBayfield Yacht Club

Way cool. Sailnet and west marine don't carry them, but I had a veryhelpful conversation with the fellow at garhauer. He's at 909 985 7513.(the web site is under construction) he's faxing me a worksheet. Price is$171 US plus $20 shipping from california.

It's actually a rigid, stainless steel, spring inside, vang. It alsoincludes a 12 to 1 block and tackle system to replace my original, softvang. Wow. The soft vang system alone is usually sold for this price.

Once I have the worksheet, I send him the measurements and he custom makesthe plates that attach to the mast and the boom.

This doesn't seem to be too much more expensive than a fiberglass boomkicker.

I'll let everyone know how this works out.

John and SoniaSky1973 C&C 25 Mk1Vancouver, BC

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Handrails

Agree all around here; easiest way to get the plugs out of the teak withoutdestroying surrounding wood is to drill a 1/8" hole in the middle of theplug, then screw a long #6 screw into the hole. As it bottoms out on thebolt, it will force the plug up and out. When you reset the plugs, just usevarnish as an adhesive so the next time you can use the same trick. Don'tuse any real glue or you are hooped.Jim WattsParadigmC&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

Helm Seat

Cindy -- I also have been trying to figure out a cockpit table schemefor my '81 C&C30 mkI. The biggest drawback is having the mainsheettraveler just ahead of the pedestal -- this rules out a standardfold-down table. But the hardware that Edson sells for their cockpittables allows you to pull the hinge pin to completely remove the tableand stow it elsewhere. This is probably the best choice for our boat.Check with Sailnet.com on availability -- I don't have my Edson cataloghandy for part number right now.

On your idea for a helm seat -- interesting idea; I usually just parkmyself on the lee cockpit seat and steer from the side. This allows meto see the telltales better.

Fred Street -- MinneapolisS/V Oceanis ('81 C&C30) -- Bayfield, WIBayfield Yacht Club

There are two books that are very useful for this sort of design andplanning: "A Sailor's Sketchbook" by Bruce Bingham, and "Upgrading theCruising Sailboat" by Daniel Spurr. Bingham in particular has a zillionideas for making add-ons to boats; Spurr's book is invaluable for anyoneupgrading a boat. He covers repowering to diesel and installing wastesystems and other such interesting stuff. Also, looking through the WestMarine catalogue is very handy to see what kind of hardware is available.They have bits and pieces you could use to clamp a seat to the stern rail,and to construct a cockpit table. Without knowing your layout, it's hard togive any suggestions. If you have the same layout as Fred Street says hehas, then you are going to have to make a fully removable table, which means

you are going to have to find somewhere to store it,or build it up from thetraveler so the mainsheet clears it. Good luck either way.Jim WattsParadigmC&C 29 Mk IIVictoria, BC

Holding Tank

Ok Listers here's a question for you....The holding tank on my 1979 C&C 30, a polyethylene tank, has a pump outhose which enters the tank from the middle of the top of the tankthrough a nylon fitting then extents to the bottom of the tank via ahard tube or hose. At the end of this season when we realized the tankwas still almost full after pumping out, we knew we had a problem. I'llspare you the details of removing an almost full tank and go right tothe problem. I am now faced with the issue of re-installing the hosethat goes to the bottom of the tank from the fitting that penetrates thetop of the tank. I think I want to replace the hose fitting on the tankand improve the hose attachment inside the tank. It appears that therather hard internal hose was just glued inside the tank fitting.First has anyone had to replace this hose? What did you replace itwith? Secondly how do you remove a fitting without damaging the tank?Third what adhesives should you use with polyethylene? Is it evenpossible to use an adhesive to attach a hose internally to say a nylonfitting? Would stainless hose clamps last inside a holding tank? Theprice of a new tank ($535 US) makes going to some effort worth it.

Michael- The only permanent attachments for polyethylene seem to be welding it orbolting it. Stainless steel inside a poly waste tank is supposed to corrode very reliably. Ihate to think that the only "reliable" way to repair the tank would be to remove the pipe,have a new "inspection" port welded into the top of it, and then install your new fitting asan "inspection port" which would screw down and be removeable/replacable. I sayremove it only because that would let you send it out to someone who already knows howto weld poly, if there is one around you. (Or to ship it.) Yes you can buy poly weldinggear but between the cost and the learning curve, might be most reliable to job this oneout. If you do try something in place using stainless fasteners, I would coat them allheavily and embed them in something like marinetex (epoxy putty) or a poly-whatevercaulking compound to try protecting them.

The tank on a C&C 30 is a very complex shape designed to fit the curveof the hull, narrow at the bottom and wide at the top. So turning thetank is not possible. The tank is just fine there is nothing wrong withit. The discharge hose that starts at the the bottom of the tank hasfallen off the fitting. The gray fitting appears to be glued with a darkbrown adhesive and perhaps is also threaded. The fitting has facetslike a nut to fit a wrench. It's OD is 1.5". Yes the supply hose alsocomes through the top of the tank. The tank was manufactured by KracorInc. of Grafton Wisconsin. Has anyone used 5200 to attach a rubber hoseto a nylon fitting? Forespare has tank fittings that might work if Icould figure out how to attach a hose with some certainty that couldlive in that environment.

I

Icebox

Fred, We had a 74 ,30 and I found there was about 1 " of insulation gluedto the outside of the ice box. There was an access inside the cupboard underthe drawers. If not cut a hole in the wall of the cupboard and when you aredone screw a piece of wood over the hole. That's the way i found ours. Ialso cut a hole in the bottom of the dry locked aft of the cooler. When iwas done I cut a new bottom for the drawer and installed it over the oldone.I poured some 2 part foam in the cavity to start and found it was going totake a lot of foam. I found some scraps of Styrofoam and used it as fillerand emptied 10 or so cans of foam from a building center/hardware store. Ibroke up the scrap foam and emptied part of a can into the pieces, thenafter it set started all over. You might check with a company that doesspray urethane insulation for homes. If you remove the seat back on thedinette . About 5 or 6 screws, you can drill a few holes and I think thereis about a 1" cavity that you can fill. Our cooler had a ply wood top. Iglued a piece of 2" foam to the top and framed in a piece of 2" foam on thelid. The final results I had about 8" of insulation under the cooler and afoot or so between the seat locker and the aft end of the cooler.Ours was a 74 , I would like to think that your 81 would have a little moreinsulation.Brad

Fred, Here's what I did on our C&C 30 MK 1, 1979 boat. First I removed the whole ice box counter top, not easy but do able. Withthe

top off remove the rear little storage box. Now you can slide the counter topwith the ice box shell aft by 11" and rebuild the storage forward of thecountertop. That also opens up a large storage space below. Cut in a door and add a fewshelfs and you now have a new "useable" storage area. With the top off, I used 2 sheets of 4' x 8' x 3/4" double sided foam board(r= 5.8) to line the area outside of the ice box from the hull and enginecompartment. Add 3 cans of spray foam and some high tech tape to create a solidfoam insulated area around the ice box. The next step is to insulate theundersideof the counter top and ice box door with 1 1/2" or more of foam board. Actually,Ibuilt a cover for the ice box door and foamed the inside. I also ran the ice boxdrain over the the sink area and with a small 12 v water pump, and galley sinkspout, I can drain the ice water into the sink. The end results are: beer stays at 34.2 degrees and the Alder Barber is ableto make ice when we are on a anchor. If we don't watch it, the beer will freeze. The other result is the useless storage bin aft of the ice box has become adry locker in it's new location and we have additional shortage below.

Dick

ICW

Howard,Just did the trip from Norfolk to West Palm (mostly in the ICW) this pastNovember on a Endeavour 43 ketch. Ours was not a vacation trip,it was adelivery, so taking our time was not an option. With the available daylightduring the first three weeks of November (your daylight will be much longer)we were up at 0530 and under way by 0550-0600 (about 10-15 minutes before"first light") and motored all day to a favorable anchorage or marinaarriving usually just at or just after sunset (no daylight saving time inNov.) so our sunset was a lot earlier than when you want to go. You couldhave 15 hour days if you want to. But with our 11-12 hour days we could make80 to 115 statute miles per day depending on bridge openings fuel stopsetc.. In the ICW distance is measured in statute miles, not nautical miles,and you will see mile marker signs along the way starting from mile 1 atNorfolk VA. You may want to go outside occasionally. Possible ports to goout, weather permitting, are Morehead City, Wilmington NC, Charleston, andBeaufort SC,(bypass Georgia and go directly to St. Augustine if weatherpermits. It's pretty straight down the Florida ICW, a few bridges but youcan make good time and interesting scenery. Trip duration, left Norfolk@1300 hrs. Nov. 1st and arrived at West Palm @ 1500hrs. Nov.12th. We headedeast at West Palm for the Bahamas so I can't help you from there. Enjoy,

Jerry HShazam '75 33

Figure 2 days from Annapolis to Cape May (based on experience in a 25). 2more to New York, with a stop along the coast (Barnaget Inlet?), or a longovernight.

One of our locals took his mast down in Troy New York before cruising theBarge Canal. I'll try to ask him how long if he is at the Power Squadronmeeting tomorrow.

Don't you go through Lake Champlain and the Richelieu Canal to Lake Ontario?Rick Brass

Catching tidal currents in East RiverDavid- <Max current 3.8 knots at Hell Gate> I've been there motorsailing at 6 knotsand making zero over ground. (Okay, we made a hundred feet in an hour. Maybe.)The 3.8 knots is typical but it really can build to more. Inconvenient, butthat's all

Inverter

On the inverter side, I use a small one daily in my van to run a laptop and it's great. I usedit on board once to run a TV and VCR and it worked well. You'll need a sizable unit (min1000 watts) however, to run an electric coffee maker or Microwave and they pull al lot ofbattery power. Small 500 watt microwave oven, rated draw about 5 amps @ 120 volts,will draw 50 AMPS at 12 volts, plus the extra for losses in the inverter.If your coffee needs aren't too great, there are 12 volt coffee makers available, usuallyabout a 5 cup size.

Burning hydrocarbons to produce chemical energy to produce mechanical energyto produce electrical energy to produce chemical energy to produceelectrical energy to heat coffee is quite inefficient compared to burninghydrocarbons in your stove to just warm the water directly :)If you really want to do this, however many watts the coffee maker draws isthe size inverter you need. In case it is labeled in amps instead of watts,

watts = amps X 120. The DC draw will be watts/12 or 10X the AC amp draw.

Joe Della Barbawww.sailcandc.com

J

K

Keel Joint

Steve & Suzanne,

Please note the following is not about fixing "the smile", which is notreally problem at all, but about repairing a leaking hull.

I recently undertook such a job on my 37'. The hull/keel interface hadopened approximately 1/8" after what I can only guess was a grounding. Thishappened prior to my owning the boat. I had a yard do the original jobwhich was royally botched and ended-up redoing it myself. I had asked theyard to drop the keel, clean the joint and re-chalk which they did butunfortunately began to weep a year later. When I dropped the keel I foundthat the yard had not properly cleaned the hull/keel interface. It appearsthat C+C originally epoxied the keel to the stub. When the yard droppedthe keel some of the stub came away with the keel. Instead of cleaning thejoint they merely piled on the Sikaflex creating a discontinuous surfaceand I believe this is why the leaking re-occurred.

I was reluctant to remove the 7000 lb keel entirely so my approach was tosuspend the boat in the travel-lift and drop the keel by a 1" and stillkeep the studs in the bolts. They say that in terms of keeping the keel onthe stub (static condition) all bolts but one are redundant and I can tellyou not even that is necessary. By far the hardest part of the job wascutting away all the sikaflex. The keel didn't budge until I removed 80% ofthe joint and even then it dropped very slowly. I cleaned the jointcompletely, first with a chisel, then a file and then acetone. I rebuiltthe surface of the stub (not that much missing, maybe 2-3 layers ofglass)with thickened epoxy such that the two surfaces came together flush.As Bob, I used 3M 5200 getting lots up around the bolts and worked it in toprevent air voids. Dropped the boat down on the keel to bring the jointtogether and then torqued. No guessing, used a gearbox and torque wrench to

get proper values. I retorqued the bolts ever couple of hours during theday. If you use 5200 do not let it cure on the outside of the joint or youwill have a job getting it off. I faired the joint with fiberglass filler.

In my case it was hard to differentiate bilge water that came from a keelleak ( as the leak was very slow) from deck run-off, etc. But when the boatwas on the hard and the joint leaked I knew I had a problem. The job wasmore intimidating than difficult. I now know that the joint is solid andconfirmed that the keel bolts were shiny like new.

Peace of mind.BarryC+C 37RNYC

Paul,

This question comes around every couple of months and we have dealt with ithere on the list extensively. I suggest you have a look in the photo albumemail archives for copies of those discussions. First, make absolutely surewater is coming from the keel bolt and not from some other area of the boat.Now that you are in the water the only thing you can really do, and shoulddo, is to check the tightness of the keel bolts. Use a torque wrench totighten the bolts to spec. Again, the spec's for your diameter bolts can befound on the photoalbum. When you haul you are going to have to address theleak. Some approach this issue by filling and fairing the smile. However,your problem suggests a water migration path of some length which begins atthe surface of the keel and ends in the bilge. It also means you have waterin around your keel bolts with the possibility for crevice corrosion. I wasfaced with this problem two years ago and after much denial dropped the keeland re-bedded the whole works. It was a good decision! I was able to confirmthe condition of the bolts, clean the joint and apply new adhesive. I nowhave peace of mind.

I think it is important to differentiate between the smile and a leak. Thesmile is a superficial crack in the surface fairing of the keel/ stub and iscaused by slight working of the keel. Most C+C's get 'em, most people filland fair. A leak is less common and obviously, leads into the boat.Re-dressing the smile is not (in my opinion) a long term solution to thisproblem.BarryC+C 37RNYC

Paul,

First, I'll say I too am an "amateur" and so my depth of knowledge should be consideredsuspect, but... I agree with Wally as to his concerns, but that's not to say I agree with himentirely. Having recently torqued my keel bolts (before it went in the water), I foundmine looser than I would have thought - I probably got a full turn of the nuts on 3 of the 4bolts before the were torqued properly. I would also say that while fusion between thebolt and nut is a concern, this hopefully should be somewhat rare, and the potentialdamage from a flexing keel would tell me that at least checking the nuts for looseness,even in the water is a good thing.

Regarding Wally's points about in vs out of the water:

1). Let's assume for a moment you have 3,000 lbs of ballast and you have 4 keel bolts.That's weight of 750 lbs per bolt, which might seem like it would throw off the torquespecs. But, keep in mind that the bolt and nut act like a wedge, in that the amount ofplane per distance covered allows the bolt & nut to create much more tension than youmight think. Now, I'm just guessing, here, and trying to think back to my physics andstuff from "The Rigger's Apprentice". Assume you have a 20 pitch thread on that bolt -that's 20 threads per inch on the bolt, and it's probably about a 2" circumference aroundthe bolt. 1"/20 pitch = .05" of take-up per revolution of the nut, or .05" of lift for every 2"of travel (one revolution of the nut). This means that the force required (not consideringfriction) to turn that nut is magnified 40 times on the tension of the bolt. So, if you apply,say 300 ft lbs, that turning effort should be sufficient to lift 12000 lbs, multiplied by the 4keel bolts = 48,000 lbs! Would the weight of the keel have some effect? Absolutely.But, by doing it in the water, this "should" mean that at worst, torquing the bolts to specwould leave them slightly under-torqued by comparison to sitting on the cradle, but notby too much, and would certainly be better than not torquing it at all.

2). As for the weakening of the bolts, check them over carefully. If you snap the bolt bytorquing it, I would say that by it wasn't trustworthy for sailing in the first place! So, Iwould lube the threads (that lube will affect torque values, but "probably" on only to thepoint of offsetting the weight of the keel in the water anyway), and I would (though somemay disagree!), back one nut off at a time just enough to make sure it turns easily. Thisshould be a good test of the bolt/nut mating surfaces anyway. Then, tighten it to specs.Then go on to the next nut. Perhaps working from the middle out would be a good idea?

Personally, I'd rather "risk" a further problem with a keel bolt than to sail the bolt with aloose keel. While the C&C "Smile" is a common issue, your having to re-do the smileevery year may well be an indication of under-torqued keel nuts. Finally, I calculated theamount of torque I had to apply by "feeling" the amount of tension I had to apply to astandard torque wrench to get to 180 foot lbs, and then added a longer lever to the largesocket set I had (I used the emergency tiller pipe to extend the bar). With the arm beingtwice as long as the torque wrench, that would be equivalent to 360 foot lbs for the same

"feel", or pretty close to the specs on the bigger nuts I had. While not perfect, it certainlygot me in the ball park.

Hope all these thoughts help, but it comes with this disclaimer - I am not a yard mechanic(though I play one on TV)... :)

You might want to print this out and run this by your local yard guy and see if he agreeswith my thoughts. And, just to be sure, check my math! Fair Winds, Bruce

Keel Painting

Kate - Interlux 2000 works well on lead. You have to sand the lead until itis bright metal (remove oxidation), then put several coats. Of course, 2000only comes in quart cans so it's an expensive fix, but it works...does notcome off. Alternatively, you could use West epoxy and mix in their waterbarrier additive. In other words, epoxies stick to lead. After you put afew coats of either, sand with 100 so the paint will stick.Greg

L

Lazy Jacks

John,The dutchman system has thin monofilament lines that go through holes in themain. This helps the main flake consistently. Lazy jacks are lines thatrun from the boom to about 3/4 of the way up the mast on both sides of themain, in effect making a rope guide for the sail to drop into. This keepsthe sail from dropping off to one side or the other of the boom. In short,they just trap the sail and keep it from falling all over the place. Thedon't really "flake" the sail per se.

Bruce,As mentioned on this thread a couple of times, you can pull the lines to

the mast w/ the Lazy Jack system, and run them around the reef hook. Iam intrigued with the idea of a line that leads to the cockpit so youcould retract them from there. Would it work if you installed smallblocks that ran along each line and then to a turning point on the mastand back to the cockpit? Thereby allowing you to pull one line per sideto tie down in the cockpit.If you want to see a lazy jack system go to West Marine's web site andÎ'm sure they'll have an illustration (there's a good one in thecatalog). Dutchman systems are harder to find images of, maybe there'sone installed on a boat that has a photo at Stu's site (I haven't lookedspecifically for that).John, Bruce is correct, the Lazy Jack system does not flake the sail.You still have to go forward and straighten it out. But that job ismade much easier by having ing the sail controlled in a confined area soall that is necessary is to flatten it out. I have seen numerous boatswith older sails that have Memory in the sail so it is 90% done beforegoing forward.

Greg

Lightning Protection

I was fortunate to have an opportunity to talk with a fellow who worked inGeneral Electrics High Voltage Lab running experiments with lightning. He wasand may still be the consultant to NASAon lightning protection. When I askedhim about grounding my boat he advised the following:

1. Run a #1 wire from the mast to a keel bolt ( assuming you have anexternal keel ) 2. Run a #4 or #6 wire from each chainplate to the same keel bolt. 3. Run a #4 or #6 wire from the head stay and back stay to the same keelbolt. 4. It is important that all of the ground wires go to the same keel bolt. 5. Do not run any additional grounding wires to anything else such asthrough hulls, engine metal tanks, etc. 6. It is best to use mechanical connections rather than soldered on theground wires.

He told me that having done the above, I would be as protected as currentknowledge makes possible. Having said this he also added that lightning can

behave in unpredictable ways so there are no guarantees.

For what it's worth!!Dave "Webfoot" 37KCB

What about a ground from the engine?? In the current setup, everything from a systems standpoint is grounded to the enginewhich uses the propshaft as a path to the "big ground". Leave it like that, or ground theengine to the same keel bolt?

Bob RudaryGrand SlamC&C 34+

Regarding the grounding of the ships electrical systems through the engineshaft. The fellow I talked with said it's better not to connect the two. Thelightning is most likely to hit the mast. The most direct route to the keelor a ground plate the better. Also, the simpler the better. Keep thelightning ground system seperate from the ships electrical system. By theway, I'm no expert on this subject. I am just reporting what I was told. Iwas very interested in what he told me having been on a Pearson 30 which hada direct hit on the mast. It gets your attention. Except for frying all theelectronics and blowing all fuses there was no damage to the boat or the fourhumans aboard.Dave

rbtIf you have grounded the engine, as you say, --How have you isolated theelectrical system form this ground? The engine, being grounded, is alsoconnected to the minus side of the battery, making this also the ground forthe entire electrical system. Have I missed something?

I'm a firm believer in grounding only the mast (and or chain plates) to thekeel on C&C boats, where we have externally exposed lead keels. Considerthat the propeller is normally bronze, the shaft is aquamet stainless steel,(occasionally bronze or other alloys), and these are normally protected by asacrificial zinc anode. Now-- most of our boats are not dry sailed, many ofour boats are in salt water of various levels of salinity. The variousmetals, lead, zinc, bronze, stainless steels, etc, all have differentelectrochemical potentials. When they are sitting in an ionic solution (seawater) they have become (poor) batteries. If you connect them together, you

have shorted out all these batteries, creating a continuous circulatingcurrent, and depleting your zinc, and the zinc in the bronze at a very rapidrate.

This actually happened to me on a 1973 C&C 30. C&C had bonded the mast,keel, thru hull, etc, for lightning protection. For the first few yearsthings were okay, when the barrier coat on the keel was fresh. Note thatwith a good fresh keel barrier coat, the lead keel was not really exposed tothe sea water. As the boat aged, the barrier coat deteriorated, and allowedsea water to penetrate to the lead. Within a few weeks, the zinc wascompletely gone, and the prop and the bronze shaft was beyond repair. I cutthe wire between the mast and the engine and measured the DC current. It wasan astounding 200 ma. The open circuit voltage was ~ 0.3 volts, but thisexplained the rapid corrosion of the zincs, prop, and shaft. I removed thewire from the mast to the engine, and never had any further trouble. I laterdiscussed this with C&C reps, and they admitted that they have mistakenlyoverdone the lightning protection grounding, and caused some seriouscorrosion problems.

Note, if your boat has an encapsulated keel perhaps this is not so much of aproblem. Also form a lightning protection viewpoint, the external lead keelis an adequate connection to the ground. This is even true despite anypaints, or barrier coats that may be applied to the keel. Those coatings arethin enough, that the lightning stroke will arc through, and be dissipatedthrough this path.

Sorry for the long winded explanation, but I thought this could help othersavoid the frustration and the unnecessary losses I was faced with.

Don WagnerC&C 41 CBDer Baron

I agree with Don's comments about creating a battery by bonding thru hulls tothe engine etc. The GE NASA consultant I mentioned earlier warned me aboutthis. He said that it was not only a bad thing for lightning protection, butwould be very bad for electrolosis and could eat away thru hulls rapidly. Icut and removed all of the bonding wires on my previous boat. My present onedidn't have any. C&C or a previous owner must have learned about this. It'sinteresting that I still see articles in sailing magazines recommending thatthis bonding be done.Dave " Webfoot " 37KCB

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Mast Upgrade

Several thoughts. RG-8X offers best compromise of signal strength vs size & flexibility(IMHO). Use a proper sailboat antenna (normally 3 foot whip with about 3db gain)Antenna gain is achieved by flattening the radiation pattern (no sense sending signals upin the air unless you're talking to airplanes or into the water). With a high gain antennayou will not be able to reach anyone to either side when more than slightly heeled(although you will be able to reach those airplanes better).Cell phones have relatively low power (3 watts max for older full size phones, .4 to 6.watts for modern hand held types. Only useful if near shoreline and populated areas. Can'treach another vessel unless you know their number. Certainly NOT a safety item. I leavemine at the dock.Handheld VHF's run 3 to 5 watts. Full size VHF runs 25 watts. With a mast top antennaseveral times the range. Your whip on the stern rail will outperform a handheld by a fairmargin.If you have masthead lights and the original wiring, it'd be a good time to replace it alsowhile you're snaking cable.

I had the stick out last winter and pulled new all-rope (Sta-Set X) halyards,as well as replacing the sheaves at the masthead. While I was in there, it wasno big deal to pull all new wiring -- new RG-8 (the big stuff) for the VHF;also multi-conductor 14-ga for the mast lighting, to replace the 20-year-old'zip' cord that was in there from the start (and was in horrible shape, BTW).And as long as I was at it, I replaced the masthead anchor light with anAquaSignal halogen, and replaced the separate steaming and spreader lights witha combo unit from AquaSignal (also halogen). The bundle of wires (includingnew wind-instrument stuff) was tied every ten inches or so with three wire tieswith the ends left on, pointing out from the bundle at about 120-degree anglesfrom each other.

What did I gain from all this? A far superior radio signal, with tons ofrange; much better and brighter anchor, deck & steaming light WITH MUCH LOWERCURRENT DRAW (halogens are great!); but best of all, none of it slaps now, evenin heavy rolling conditions!

Considering how much we all spend on glitzy stuff like new sails or CD players,I feel like it's money well spent to assure that my boat will be seen (andheard), for a longer time (and greater distance), especially in the worstconditions. And it really didn't cost all that much...if you're going toreplace the wire anyway, put the best in that you can, and you won't regret it.

Getting off my soapbox now... ;-}

Fred Street -- MinneapolisS/V Oceanis ('81 C&C30) -- Bayfield, WIBayfield Yacht Club

Brad,I will try to answer a couple of questions.

1) I attached four zip ties every 12 inches (probably overkill, 15 inches wouldhave been ok).

2) I ran 2 new halyards after performing this procedure without any hassle.Including have to "fish" one of them. To date no signs of fouling with wires.And no slapping at mooring.

3) I have heard that PVC conduit is installed with aluminum rivets. The pipeis put inside, they drill many holes in the mast to rivet it through. Too mucheffort and money IMHO. The zip tie effect works great. Took me about 3 hoursto do (with two people)

HTH,

Tom AndersonC&C 32 NonpareilMarblehead, MA

Brad,

For a "contrarian" perspective I had conduit installed on "Ronin's"mast when I had it down for re-hab and I personally think that this was thebest way to go for my boat. I make that statement because the thought of57/58' of 14 ga. wire (and RG-8U coax) runs hanging somewhat freely didn'tseem like a good idea to me. I don't know about your mast but it may not benecessary in your case.

Anyway, it didn't really seem that difficult to do. What my riggerdid was mark and drill two small holes on either side of the centerline onthe front of the mast (distance between the holes dependant on the diameterconduit you use) about 10' in distance from each other. You don't reallyneed that many rivets to keep it in place. They then used a coat hanger topull the conduit up to the mast wall, drilled a corresponding hole in the

conduit, riveted it and then did the same on the other hole. At the steaminglight, they simple cut out the wall of the PVC to match the opening in themast. The pipe stopped about 1' short of the top of the mast. If you do it,make sure you install a conduit with enough diameter to allow for any wiringthat you may wish to install in the future. It fills up pretty quick.

There, I just told you my level of expertise and experience on thissubject. I paid a professional... Actually, had I known how to do it then Iwould have gone ahead and done it myself. It seemed to me that there wasless there than (doesn't) meet the eye... :-)

Best,Dave'82 37'"Ronin" - Annapolis

Matt -- I used five-conductor (anchor light, steaming light, deck light, ground& spare) from the mast step up to the combo light, where I used a nylon strapriveted to the mast for strain relief; then I spliced (inside the combo light)to 2-conductor to go up the rest of the way to the anchor light. This run wascable-tied to an anchor tapped into the bottom of the masthead fitting. Theseruns were also bundled with the masthead wind (small 6-conductor) and the RG-8VHF runs, which have their own strain relief at their grommeted exit holes. Ithink splitting the run at the combo light, then using the lighter cable forthe rest of the run helped distribute the strain on the cables.

Fred Street -- MinneapolisS/V Oceanis ('81 C&C30) -- Bayfield, WIBayfield Yacht Club

Brad -- I used three 8-inch ties every 16 inches. With the mast horizontal onsawhorses, it was gratifying to watch the ties more or less center the bundleof heavy cable as I fed it into the mast. As far as the halyards, I think theties may help a little bit, but the best thing is to pull 'em up tight whenyou're done sailing for the day. After going through this process, my mast hasbeen EXTREMELY quiet.

Fred Street -- MinneapolisS/V Oceanis ('81 C&C30) -- Bayfield, WIBayfield Yacht Club

Jared -- having just re-done the math, my new 10-watt halogen mastheadlight could use a round-trip run in excess of 100 feet of 14-ga Ancormarine wire with a calculated voltage drop of only .25 volts. Considering

the fact that a 10-watt halogen in a proper housing is significantlybrighter than required by USCG reg's for anchor light visibilty, I thinkI'll be far safer than I was with the power-hogging incandescent that itreplaces. But I agree with you that we need to make sure we're getting allthe juice we can to these devices to ensure they work as designed.

BTW, the figures needed to calculate voltage loss and wire size came fromthe Ancor website at http://www.ancorproducts.com/technical.htmlAnd if you use multi-conductor with a common ground, be aware that the wireused for the ground MUST be sized to carry current from ALL devices thatwill be used simultaneously, unless you want to use it to heat the insideof your mast... ;-}

Fred Street -- MinneapolisS/V Oceanis ('81 C&C30) -- Bayfield, WIBayfield Yacht Club

Brian,Yes you are correct on all points. I did fan out the 4 zip ties (Ithink theywere 12 inch ones) every 12 inches. And the halyards do not make any slap noiseeither. The first time you step aboard Scholar after do this, you will beamazed on how quiet it is. Nonpareil's slap was so bad the first year that wealmost never slept aboard.

HTH

Tom AndersonC&C 32 NonpareilMarblehead, MA

Glen- and all--

I got a response from Aquasignal corporate offices in Germany today. They saythat their USCG rated lamps are rated for operation at 12 volts, so as long asthere is "low battery" voltage at the base of the fixture they are OK...andgetting a full 14.4 volts would be overvolting them.

Bruce,All my winches are tapped into the mast and boom. No nuts. That's

the good news. The bad news is that galvanic corrosion can make removingthe screws a real problem. Use a heat gun and in desperation CO2 (thanksJarred). A hand impact wrench can help too. Use silicone sealant on the

threads when you reassemble to reduce corrosion.

Good luck,GaryS/V Expresso'75 C&C 35 Mk IIEast Greenwich, RI, USA

Hi Gary,One comment on reducing galvanic corrosion between aluminum and stainless.There is a specific goop, I think its called "Tef Gel" that is highlyrecommended by Brion Toss (of the Riggers Apprentice fame). I've got alittle tube of it and intend to use it when attaching stuff to the mast orboom.Hope this helps and thanks for the input,Bruce

Mattress

Brian,We replaced the original cushions on "Ronin" last year with 5",

closed-cell foam and covered them with Ultra-Suede. A vast difference incomfort from my perspective. The original foam ended caused 'hard-spots'when sleeping. It's much more like a normal mattress now. I think theoriginal foam was 4".

Dave'82 37'"Ronin" - Annapolis

From some rather in-depth experience, the critical issue to comfort will be the quality ofthe foam. In our last boat, we replaced the original factory cushion foam with high-density foam obtained through http://www.knoxfoam.com The information on theirwebsite is good, and so were their prices, though I later found out about someplace herein Chicago that discounted the cost of the foam even further. Unfortunately, I don't havethat information any longer. In the end, we went with the highest grade of foam possibleand were much happier with the comfort of the cushions.Hope this helps, Bruce

Brian,

We had the same thought last year but rather than replace the cushions webought a queen size eggcrate foam (about 2 1/2" thick) and cut it to thesame size as the cushions. (actually a little larger because of the sideslope in the V-berth). We then bought 2 queen size sheets (one for the topand one for underneath the eggcrate) and sewed the sides and the short partat the bow end to conform and cut off the excess, leaving the aft end openso one can remove the eggcrate to wash the sheets. Because it's symmetrical,by having top/bottom sheets just turn the whole thing over to get a freshsheet. Also it keeps the sides from untucking. The comfort is verysatisfactory, sleep better than at home. Did the same for the quarter berthbut you can't turn it over. If some of this doesn't make sense let me know.

Jerry, C&C 33 "Shazam"

Contact S & S Fabric Products in Portsmouth RI. Very experienced in redoingcushions, upholstery etc. Have worked on lots of C & C yachts."www.ssfabricproducts.com "

We are just in the process of doing the settee and the dinette on our 35.The V-berth will be done next. What we decided to go with will providecomfortable seating, with firm but relaxed sleeping. The foam for the bottomis by a company called Reflex. It is a polymer construction, has a 10 yearguarantee, (including marine use) and is three inches thick. Each cushiongets wrapped in a Fortrel wrap, which builds it up to four inches. Evenlying and leaning on ones elbow seems to not flatten the cushion so one canfeel the plywood. The backs are a 5 yr guaranteed Ultra-Lux, which is alittle softer, and it too is Fortrel wrapped. All bottoms will have apolyester scrim bottom to allow air circulation.

The upholstery did say that the brand name of foam does get changed at timesby the distributor, who wants to offer something different. So I guess thename might not necessarily be available in the States.

Klaus & Janice

A mattress company I dealt with and was very satisfied with the results isthe Handcraft Mattress Company. They will come to your boat and measure ifyou want. The end result is a mattress that looks like you have at home(maybe without a hinge in the middle) and guaranteed for up to 10 years.Six inch latex foam , they have innerspring if it works for you. Comphy andstays in place - no sag in the middle at all! Not cheap, but you will besatisfied if you plan extended or livaboard cruising. Even came wrapped in a

bow for Christmas present. They're in, Santa Ana, CA, but have agentsaround country, phone 1-800-241-7751. I'm just a customer. No businessrelationship.

majorAIRBORNE38 Landfall

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North Carolina

Ross:You'll probably like it here. It's 60 degrees and sunny, with about 10 ktswesterly, today and it's still not the middle of January. Big differencefrom where you are.

The NC Travel and Tourism website is www.visitnc.com . There are listingsfor a lot of events and sites.

As a history buff you would be interested in going down to Wilmington. TheWW II battleship North Carolina is moored there and open for tours. TheAmerican Civil War fort that figures into the movie Glory is just outside ofWilmington; rent the movie and then see the location. The movie, BTW, showsthe 54th Massachusetts attacking from the wrong side of the fort - theConfederate side.

On the subject of movies, Screen Gems Studio, in Wilmington, is the largestmovie studio outside of Hollywood and gives an interesting tour. My girlsdragged me down there on a "Dawson's Creek" pilgramage (if you're familiarwith that TV show) and I particularly enjoyed it... plus we had to go toactual locations in Wilmington where the show is filmed and had a good timetalking to the locals who own the shops and houses.

Another note on the subject of history, the North Carolina flag has twodates on it. With all due respect to our friends in Boston, one of the datesis the date of the actual first battle of the American Revolution. Thebattlefield site is preserved, but not very impressive. Wasn't much of abattle.

Interested in pirates? The North Carolina Maratime Museum in Beaufort(Bow-fort. Beaufort South Carolina is pronounced B-ewe-fort.) is in processof salvaging the Queen Anne's Revenge - Blackbeard's flagship - which sunkoff Cape Lookout. The Museum and the town of Beaufort are well wothe thetrip.

Cape Hatteras Light is well worth the trip. It sits about 1/2 mile inland ofit's historical sight now, having been moved to avoid the erosion of theshoreline. Quite a thing to move a brick structure over 200 feet tall, and areal nice stretch of shore to watch the surfers and do some shelling. Thelight, BTW, is in Buxton and not in the town of Cape Hatteras. And it willbe quite a drive from Pinehurst.

While on your way to Hatteras, you should take the ferry rather than go byroad. Well, actually you almost HAVE to take at least one ferry. But doeither Cedar Island or the Swan Quarter-Ocracoke ferry, and spend some timein Ocracoke. Quaint little tourist trap that is nice to visit. And if youhave a 4wd vehicle, it is legal to drive on the Atlantic Ocean beaches andhave a bonfire at night.

Interested in Flying. The Wright Brother's Museum is in Kitty Hawk on theOuter Banks. There is theoriginal hut where the plane was built, and a monument at the top of thehill they came down to get their airspeed up.

You can also go flying yourself, in a hang glider, at Jockey Ridge StatePark in Nags Head... a couple of miles from the Wright Museum. Jockey Ridgeis the big honking sand dune.

If you're interested in going sailing, drop me a line. I'm always lookingfor company on Belle, and we might be able to make a day trip on the ICW soyou can see Pamlico Sound one of our water towns. They say that Oriental hasmore circumnavigators per capita than any other town in the world. But then,it;s a small town.

Rick Brassla Belle AuroreWashington, NCan interesting exhibit at the visitors center(although it was closed a couple months ago after a severe Nor'easter.),

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P

Painting Decks

KarinFor a proper deck job,Remove all deck hardware, except the toe rail.Grind off all previous non skid surfaces.Spray paint all smooth surfaces, Imron or Awlgrip.Benefits to both, I prefer the Imron, because of depthof colour, you can always buff.(if your smooth areas are in good shape, you can buff well,and then apply wax)I would then hire someone to roll on the gelcoat non skid surface.Gelcoat is mixed with a thickening agent, to the proper consistency,and then rolled on to create new non skid.The new non skid is then rolled on from bow to stern, without stopping.So one person mixes, while the other roles.

It is an art to get the proper texture to the deck, without leaving anyseems showing, and proper texture. This is why I would hire this job out,after viewing severalof their previous jobs completed. The non skid surface is in your faceall the time, and must be perfect, or it will devalue your C&C.

$500 will go along way, to hire 2 experienced gelcoat workers, to rollon your new deck on a Saturday. We have several boats here in Oakvillethat have rolled on gelcoat by Bruckmann Marine. You cannot see thedifference between rolled and a moulded non skid. Don't scrimp on thisfeature of your boat.

My non skid gelcoat is now 29 years old, and because I have moved mystanchions to the toe rail, and upgraded all deck hardware, I need torecoat my deck. But my original non skid is in pretty good shape. Nopaint will last this long.

With painted decks with sand or no slip additives in them, the paint wearsoff the abrasives peaks, and ends up as brown spots. My previous boatcame with a painted deck (Evelyn 32) and it was okay. But a properlyrolled gelcoat non skid, would have been perfect.

Larry JensenRock & Roll foreverC&C 30 BHYC Oakville

Palm Handhelds

The URL for those of you who are interested in this freeware program:http://www.toolworks.com/bilofsky/tidetool.htm

I'm glad you asked me to look it up. Looks like there's a new versionout with graphic plots of the tide level. I got my copy two years agooff either zdnet or tucows.Good luck,Mike1979 C&C30, "Blue Dolphin"Fair Haven, NJ

Prop

I have a two bladed prop on the same boat with the same engine and can getover 6 knots. Maybe the prop is not sized right. I had a 13 1/2 x 9 fixedblade. I sent information to a prop company and they recommended a 15 x 7.Somewhere in that area would be OK. It sounds to me like you don't haveenough pitch on your prop, unless at 3200 you are getting a lot of blacksmoke out of the exhaust. If smoky, then you have too much prop, either toomuch pitch or too much diameter.Gary NylanderC&C 30 "Penniless"

Q

R

Rudder Moisture ProblemsI suggest adding a step to flush acetone through the assembly. Try pluggingall holes with drywall screws except the lowest one, attaching a tube tothat hole with hot melt glue or resin, and forcing acetone in and up untilit comes out around the shaft. Drain it, let it dry (two days?), and repeatthe procedure with epoxy resin. Don't think in terms of sealing theassembly so much as filling all internal voids. Good luck - Roger.

Rudder Bearings

Jim,

I don't know how your boat is set up but mine has an Edson wheel. The rudder extendsinto the cockpit with a square end for emergency steering. Over the years a lot of saltwater must have drained down the SS rudder shaft and sat on the white metal quadrant toset up an electrolysis problem. I tried solvents, power bars and impact wrenches but wasnot able to remove the 4 bolts that hold the quadrant together. I ended up drilling out thebolts - 2 from the threaded end up and 2 from the head down.After that the job was straightforward.1. Drilled square top and tapped 3/8 " threads for eyebolt to lower rudder.2. Removed steering cables and quadrant.3. Dropped rudder out of boat.4. Cleaned tube with acetone to remove all grease.5. Roughed up inside of tube with home made flapper wheel to provide bite. Moreacetone.6. Four coats of paste wax on rudder shaft as release agent.7. Put in new grease fitting in rudder tube and inserted rudder in tube.8. Using a cheap grease gun I pumped the West/graphite mixture in until I had overflowat top and bottom of tube.9. Let sit for a few days until epoxy set up. Rudder came loose with only a little force. Idid the job about 3 years ago and it seems to be holding up.PS Removed the epoxy grease fit, drilled thickness of tube with flat nosed drill toremove epoxy, inserted new grease fit, and tried to force in a bit of grease.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further help.

Bill,Caprice 1

Rust Removal

Try a test piece(very small) using occylic acid, then rinse. We have used this to removerust stains from the deck and rigging.JohnBoatless in Edmonton

You can try FSR from Davis (Fiberglass Stain and Rust remover) it is a gelcontaining oxacylic acid , about $12 a jar. Oxacylic acid is also used byfurniture refinisher's to remove stains in wood so should be fine oninterior surface's , but you would want to try on a hidden area first to besafe.Ken Heppell

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Shaft CouplerLast spring we removed the shaft coupler to get at the stuffing box toreplace the flax - there wasn't enough room to get at it otherwise.

It became a much bigger job, as the coupler wouldn't come free. We ended upremoving the transmission, using a puller, hammer and heat - turns out thatwhoever had installed - or last removed - the coupler had tightened the setscrews too tight, causing them to dimple the shaft, creating a burr whichseverely impeded the coupler's removal. We filed and sanded the burr, andreinstalled the coupler. It went on MUCH easier than it came off.

Brian IlerC&C 33 Mk IIAlexandra Yacht ClubToronto

Shore Power

SHORE POWER GROUNDING ISSUES, GFI OUTLETS, POLARITY ALARMS,AND GALVANICISOLATORSJoe Della Barba

Most of us know that shore power systems can cause increased corrosion andthat there is such a thing as a "hot" marina that also causes or increasescorrosion. Beyond that, there is a quite a bit of folklore and a lack ofgood understanding, even among professionals who designed the systems in thefirst place.To understand what is really going on you have to take a look at how themarina is wired as well as your boat. The powerlines that supply the dock(and your house too) do not carry 120 or 240 volts. They are usually over1,000 volts and can be over 10,000 volts. There is a transformer either onthe telephone pole or in a box on the ground that changes this voltage to120/240 volts for domestic consumption. The output side of the transformerhas 3 wires coming from it. The voltage between the outer 2 wires is between220 and 240 volts and the voltage between the center wire and either of theouter wires is between 110 and 120 volts and is half the voltage that isbetween the outer wires. This central wire is called the neutral wire and isalso grounded at or near the transformer. This provided some important

safety benefits but it also causes some problems in the marine environment.The shore power cord coming aboard your boat has 3 wires, assuming you have120 volt 30 or 50 amp service. The black wire is called the hot wire, and isconnected through the dock wiring to one end of the transformer or theother. The white wire is called the neutral wire, which is connected to thecenter tap of the transformer and grounded. The third wire is the green wireand is connected to the same ground point as the neutral wire on shore.Assuming your boat is wired correctly, the green wire also is connected tothe DC ground system on your boat. Depending on how extensive your groundingsystem is, it will at the very least be connected to your engine block andmay be connected to all your seacocks as well.This system provides some important safety benefits and also introduces somelarge problems. First, the good news. If any AC equipment with a 3 prongcord ever has an internal short where the hot wire contacts the metal caseof the equipment, the case would not become hot since the green wire groundsit. Instead, the circuit breaker would blow. If the internal wiring of theboat should ever short to the ground system it would likewise blow thecircuit breaker. If there was ever a situation where the hot wire contactedthe ships ground but the green wire from shore was not connected to shipsground, a large AC current would flow from the boat's underwater metalthrough the water to ground. If it wasn't enough to blow the circuitbreakers there would be an extremely dangerous situation. Anyone swimmingnearby would be killed. This is a reason not to swim in marinas and it killspeople every year.Now the bad news. If you ever come into contact with the hot wire and aregrounded, you will be shocked and maybe killed. It is very easy to begrounded working in a wet salty environment. The second piece of bad news isthat the green wire that connects to your ships ground also connects toevery other boat in the marina on shore power. This means that allunderwater metal is connected. This can cause huge galvanic corrosionproblems. Imagine that if everyone but you forgets to use a zinc that yourzinc will be trying to protect the whole marina. The third piece of bad newsis the possibility of a miss wired outlet that reverses the hot and neutralconnections. This would be dangerous for a number of reasons, depending onwhat equipment was hooked up onboard and how much AC it "leaked". I once wasbadly shocked the discharge water of an air conditioner because of this.Now more good news! There is technology ready to solve all these problems.First with the easiest, reverse polarity. Most new boats have reversepolarity alarms installed already in the AC panel. If you need one, you canget a plug in polarity tester at a hardware store for $10 or $20. If youfind a reverse polarity outlet in marina, don't use it! The problem ofgetting shocked can be solved as well with Ground Fault Interrupter (GFI)outlets. You may have seen these already; they are in most bathrooms innewer homes. They sense when the current going one way on the hot wire isnot the same as current going the other way on the neutral wire and turn

themselves off. This will keep you from getting shocked by touching the hotside of the circuit while grounded, since the current will be going throughyou (ouch!) instead of back on the neutral wire. A GFI outlet will not saveyou from touching both the hot and neutral wires at once. If you haveseveral outlets chained together you only need GFIs at the beginning of eachchain. The corrosion problem can be solved as well with Galvanic Isolators.Galvanic Isolators will pass AC current, thus preserving all the safetyaspects of the system, but no not pass DC current, thus isolating you fromthe other boats' underwater metal. They install between the AC green wiresystem and ship's ground. These need to be installed by someone who isfamiliar with AC wiring. There may be new units on the market, but back whenI did this for a living only the Quicksilver unit by Mercury Marine was adecent unit. All the others had quite severe flaws.

Solar/Inverter

A discount to fellow members:

As the distribution manager for Soltek Solar Energy's marine andRV division and a new C&C owner we are currently upgrading ourC&C 30 "Lively Lady V" with a new power system. The upgradeshave included new 6 volt batteries, a smart battery charger, solarpanels and soon a DC to AC inverter.

Should any member be contemplating upgrading or adding to theirelectrical system I would be pleased to put together a specialdiscount that they can obtain through our local dealers.

Our website is www.soltek.ca If you would like more information or wouldlike our complete catalogue please feel free to call me at 1-800-667-6527.

Good sailing in 2001.

Spencer EvansC&C 30, "Lively Lady V"

Stuffing Box

Bill- I am seeing more posts on the list this year in favor of replacing the old

packing with a new synthetic, either the teflon packing from GORE or anothersynthetic "putty" that West Marine carries. In both cases you are replacingcotton twine and synthetic lubricants, so there is no corrosion, no rotting ofthe packing, less friction and less heat buildup. The folks who have used it for a year or so (my understanding is that theseproducts have only been on the market for two? years) seem very happy with it:No leaks, no problems, and no big expensive replacement job!

The putty is about $50, the Gore stuff somewhat less.

Apparently these alternatives simply did not exist (were not in the market)twenty years ago, so the fancier systems may have simply found their match.

Jared et al. - Just to add an overlooked item vis a vis the Gore or WestMarine dripless packings: I tried the West version before I switched to thePYI system 3 years ago and here's the problem: you have to have a packingnut sufficiently large enough to accomodate both several rings of the clayAND one ring of flax to provide pressure. Even without the flax, I couldnot put the required number of clay rings in my packing, and hence itleaked. So, this is an item to consider with these seemingly perfect(cheap) solutions.Cheers, Greg

Bill - So much to learn....You loosen the locking nut, then tighten the packing nut until the drippingstops; now loosen until it drips about once per 20-30 seconds. Rotate theshaft a bit by hand just to feel the tightness and make sure the leakingdoesn't increase. Now tighten the lock nut while holding (with wrench) thepacking nut. Observe the drip rate and start all over if it's stopped orincreased. The flax packing should be replaced every few years...lots offun when you haul out. Finally, when you do haul the boat, replace thedinosaur with a PYI!!Later gator, Greg

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Teak cleaning

Hi John,I've been getting a lot of input on this over the last few days, and you'veprobably seen the posts, but here's what I think I'll try, and in thisorder:

1). Start first with spray Murphy's Oil Soap (you can make the spray bythinning down the regular stuff with water). Wipe it down, and see how muchgunk & stain comes off with the easy stuff first.

2). If not satisfied, continue the cleaning with turpentine and 00 gradebrass or synthetic wool. Don't use steel wool, you'll get little rustingparticles in the wood that way. I agree with the poster that a goodrespirator mask is called for during this job (same one I use when applyingantifouling paint)

3). If still not satisfied with a few spots, I'll try acetone in a deepdark corner and see if there will be any damage to the wood, and ifnecessary, apply teak cleaner and brightener.

4). If STILL not satisfied with a spot or two, I'll start sanding with afine grade of sandpaper.

5). Apply teak oil to the interior, despite the comments about the niceresults of varnish and polyurethanes. I appreciate all the comments on thispiece, I'm just not ready to spend the time to do a nice job with apolyurethane right now.

I'm really hoping that steps 1 and 2 do the job, at least for this season -I've got a lot more things to get done this spring!

Hope this helps,

Bruce

Topping Lift

Hello All,I got another suggestion from another board. Here goes: "You might trysomething like I use, too: my backstay and topping lift both have a smallblock attached and the blocks are joined by a small bungee...when the boomgoes out, the blocks/bungee go up, keeping the topping lift away from theleach of the sail, etc. Have used this on several boats, and it works greatwith either fixed or adjustable topping lifts. I think I got the idea from"Things That Work" in Sail Magazine or from the books of the same name."Makes easy sense to me!Bruce

Going to a solid vang is a great , but expensive solution to your toppinglift problem. Bruce mentioned using two blocks and bungie cord. I did asimilar thing by securing a Harken bullet block about 1/3 of the way up mybackstay.( As I recall it was just whipped on with stainless wire. ) I put astainless ring on my topping lift free to slide up and down. Then I fastenedbungie cord to the ring, through the block and down to a small cleat attachedjust above the backstay turnbuckle. The bungie cord was adjustable, but thebungie was so long that it could stretch enough so it didn't interfere withthe boom going down wind. You didn't want to spend any money. This is almostthat cheap. Dave " Webfoot " 37KCB

Sure,My topping lift is comprised of a small 7x19 wire coming down from the topof a mast to a crimped eye. Through that eye is a single block, securedthere by a ring-ding (by the way, is that the proper name for thesethings?). To the end of the boom is attached a block that looks kind oflike a fiddle block you would use for a vang, but instead of cam cleat, itsjust a simple V in the stainless block for jamming the topping lift line.Pretty standard design, I would guess.

So, here's what I did. Where the line ties to the fiddle/jam block on theboom, I hooked one of those 8" long micro bungee cords right through theknot. It went through stiffly, so I shouldn't loose the bungee. Fromthere, I hooked the other end of the bungee through the ring-ding on thesecond block attached to the topping lift wire. Pretty simple.

All it is designed to do is take excessive slack out of the topping lift,and keep it on the windward side of the sail so it doesn't rub and slap thesail all the time, or get caught around the main halyard shackle (whichhappened to me once - not a lot of fun when you're in the middle of trying

to drop the main in a high-traffic situation).Hope this helps,Bruce

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Vang

Go to the Garhauer booth at Strictly Sail and buy one of his vangs. Itprovides a double block top and bottom and a cam cleat. Comes with enoughline to work quite effectively. I have one on my split backstay on my 30-1and it works to tension the forestay and probably bend the mast a little,but nothing will bend the stick on the 30 very much as it is rather large.Gary Nylander"Penniless"gnylander@bluecrab.org

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Water Pump Grease

I use West Marine winch lube

Winches

John - Brian was right on...use kerosene which I suspect is what you usefor your heaters in NF! I use the Lewmar grease and oil as it came in anice kit that West had on sale. I also keep a box for all the parts, but doone winch start to finish...not all in a batch...to keep the gears, pawls,etc. on the same winch. I also keep a spare parts kit handy and any wornpawls or pawl springs get replaced during their yearly cleaning as needed.

Sorry to say it John, but launched yesterday and first Wed night race istonight; 1st real race is 22 April.Cheers, Greg

Kerosene works well. I'd been trying to be eco-friendly with a water-solubledegreaser, but it never worked well. The other thing that has worked verywell is a 1-1/2 gallon parts washer ($70-80 US). Let the grease settle out,save as much as you can of the clear solvent for next year and dispose ofgrease properly. It's hazardous waste.

Use winch grease. I'd gotten a couple of tubs of Barient grease from MarineExchange a few years ago. But West Marine or Lewmar is about equivalent.Don't try to work with the stuff when it's too cold. Also, a disposable acidbrush is good for applying just enough to gears and bearings.

Make sure to have some spare springs... but if you're careful about how youpull the rachet and pawl assembly out of the winch on the boat, and apart onthe bench, you'll rarely lose one.

Remember how it came apart, and you won't have problems putting it backtogether again.

Dan

Windows

Bill Goman, formerly of C&C, more recently of Goman Boats (Express Yachting)recommends Versilok. It also is a methylacrylate, like Plexus, and seems to be pricedabout the same. The following quote is form my description of the project, which islinked on Stu's page."The Versilok 406/19, manufactured by Lord corporation, was purchased fromAirDraulics / Chemical Concepts in 42 ML tubes. Each tube delivers approximately 48"of a ¼" bead and is enough to do one port. Craig Zell, of AirDraulics / ChemicalConcepts (215)457-1940, also provided an insert which allowed the tubes to be used in astandard caulk gun."

Steve & Suzannes/v Pony Express

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Yanmar

Having recently installed a Yanmar, I have some experience with the trans./cablesetup. My suggestion is you start at the transmission and let go the cable fromthe transmission and check the operation of the tranny manually. There shouldbe no problem shifting from neutral to reverse and forward with the trans.lever.The lever should be able to move freely at least 1.4in. from the neutralposition in either direction to ensure the proper engagement of the gears. Theactual measurement is 35mm. If your lever can't move at least this amount, thetrans. may not be engaging properly which can cause wear on the clutches and bequite costly to repair. If your reverse does not engage when shifted thru thisrange manually, you probably have a problem within the trans. itself which maytake a professional to sort out. If the manual shifting works ok your problemis in the cable. The cable may be rusted and jammed inside the housing or thecable housing has come loose from the retainers and is moving instead of thecable. The cable may have simply slipped and needs to be adjusted. You mayhave to replace the cable which can also be an ordeal unless you are familiarwith the inside workings of the steering pedistal. I can give you info topossibly make it easier if the cable needs replacing.Tony, Nor'westerII

A few things, from my experience:

* get the shop manual for the 2GM. Its detailed instructions and diagrams will give youmore confidence.

* replace the cover on the raw water pump with a SpeedSeal cover - it's still a pain to getoff, but much easier than getting a screwdriver in behind the pump, and working by feelto remove, and retighten the little screws, which tend to strip anyway, being brass

* you'll have to loosen off the v-belts for both the water pump and the generator to get atthe waterpump, and then unbolt the waterpump to twist it around to get at the cover, andsee that the impeller goes in correctly

* grease the impeller and the cover with the recommended grease before reassembling

* make sure you check the water pump cover after launch - even with theSpeedseal cover handtight, mine required more tightening after launch tostop water leaking.

* ensure the air intake and exhaust outlets are unsealed - one normally seals them for thewinter with tape Brian IlerC&C 33 Mk IIAlexandra Yacht ClubToronto

Hi Gary & All-Sounds like you might have just gone thru what I did with the original ignition key switchfor my Yanmar SB-8. The black key cylinder actually fractured. I visited the MarineDiesel site at Torresen Marine and with the help of Ike Stephenson there was able todetermine that the exact replacement was no longer available, but instead I ordered anewer "barrel key" type that replaces the "cut key" type switch, and have installed withsuccess. IT does not exactly match the existing hole in the control panel, but you caneasily modify and it will fit.Here is the web address:www.marinedieseldirect.com

Look for the P/N 123482-91251 Ignition Key and Switch Combo Good Luck-Rob Waltenbaugh

Joe-Here's a link to a site that has a Yanmar engine prop guide:http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/yanprop.htmI replaced my orig 2-blade on my Yanmar 8HP last year with a 3-bladeCampbell Sailor prop built in Canada - its a well built product and I'vebeen satisfied with the performance. You can get information from:Clifford D Friesen

I, too, called Torreson and ordered the new barrel / key assembly. It fit my 1980 dashperfectly, had the same two lugs on the back and was a five minute install. And, my 1980keys fit! Now, I have four keys..... Thanks to all on the list for the help.Gary Nylander

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