a p p e a r a n c e s the sole member for the...
TRANSCRIPT
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A P P E A R A N C E S
The Sole Member: His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick
For the Tribunal: Mrs. Mary Laverty, SCMr. Justin Dillon, SCMr. Dara Hayes, BLMr. Fintan Valentine, BL
Instructed by: Jane McKevitt
Solicitor
For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC
Mr. Michael Durack, SCMr. Gareth Baker, BL
Instructed by: Mary CumminsCSSO
For Owen Corrigan: Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SCMr. Darren Lehane, BL
Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors
For Leo Colton: Mr. Paul Callan, SCMr. Eamon Coffey, BL
Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors
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For Finbarr Hickey: Fionnuala O'Sullivan, BL
Instructed by: James MacGuill & Co.
For the Attorney General: Ms. Nuala Butler, SCMr. Douglas Clarke, SC
Instructed by: CSSO
For Freddie Scappaticci: Eavanna Fitzgerald, BLPauline O'Hare
Instructed by: Michael FlaniganSolicitor
For Kevin Fulton: Mr. Neil Rafferty, QC
Instructed by: John McAtamneySolicitor
For Breen Family: Mr. John McBurney
For Buchanan Family/Heather Currie: Ernie Waterworth
McCartan Turkington BreenSolicitors
For the PSNI: Mark Robinson, BL
NOTICE: A WORD INDEX IS PROVIDED AT THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. THIS IS A USEFUL INDEXING SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO QUICKLY SEE THE WORDS USED IN THE TRANSCRIPT, WHERE THEY OCCUR AND HOW OFTEN.
EXAMPLE: - DOYLE [2] 30:28 45:17
THE WORD “DOYLE” OCCURS TWICEPAGE 30, LINE 28PAGE 45, LINE 17
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I N D E X
Witness Page No. Line No.
WITNESS M
EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY 2 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS 27 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 34 29
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY 47 8
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. ROBINSON 54 28
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THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED ON THE 14TH OF JUNE, 2012, AT 11 A.M.
AS FOLLOWS:
MR. HAYES: Chairman, to commence this morning, this
morning's evidence, there is a witness in Belfast who will
give evidence by video-link, and Mrs. Laverty is there to
examine him, and I think that is ready to proceed.
CHAIRMAN: Oh, good. Thank you very much.
MRS. LAVERTY: Good morning, Chairman. I am here with
Witness M, and he is ready to take the oath. He doesn't
wish to be facially recognised, Chairman, for security
reasons, so for that reason you will be stuck with seeing
me for the duration of his interview.
CHAIRMAN: That will be very nice. And what cipher is he
being known by?
MR. HAYES: M, I believe.
CHAIRMAN: M. Right.
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WITNESS M, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY
AS FOLLOWS:
Q. MRS. LAVERTY: Now, I think, Witness M, that you spent your 1
career in Customs in the North of Ireland, is that correct?
A. That's correct, Mr. Chairman.
Q. And you were part of a new investigation unit set up in 2
about 1974?
A. That is correct, yes.
Q. And was there a particular distinction between your unit in 3
the Customs and Excise and, perhaps, previous ones?
A. That's correct. We were formed in 1974, in Belfast, and we
were responsible for the investigation of offences
throughout Northern Ireland.
Q. And I think that you were British civil servants, well, as 4
against Northern Ireland, shall we say, originally?
A. That's correct, we were British civil servants and not
Northern Ireland civil servants.
Q. And were you run out of a part of England, were you -- were 5
your bosses in England or were they in the north?
A. Yes, the headquarters was in London, and we had a regional
office which covered Glasgow, from Glasgow, and they would
come over from time to time as well. But the collection
and investigation unit at that time was operated solely in
Belfast to cover anti-smuggling, et cetera.
Q. Yes. And I think that you ended up very high up in the 6
unit, without identifying where you were in the hierarchy
of the unit, is that correct?
A. That's correct, I was a senior officer in the unit.
Q. Yes. And I think that in 1988, there was a change in 7
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monetary compensation amounts, which led to a lot more
monetary gain paid on exports, and that had a big impact
for Customs, is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And how did that impact on people who were tending to 8
smuggle?
A. Well, it meant that if you purchased cattle in Northern
Ireland and you took them to the Republic of Ireland, you
would have to pay about a hundred pound per beast on each
animal as they crossed the border at the point of Customs,
both export and import. In this particular case, what they
did was, the load of cattle would be brought to the border
and they went into the yard on the border, and the cattle
in Northern Ireland are all tagged in the right ear and in
the Republic of Ireland they are tagged in the left ear, so
the first objective for the smugglers was to remove --
cause the tags to be removed from the right ear of each
animal and then, subsequently, move them along a bit and
insert Republic of Ireland tags, which they had obtained
either from meat plants which were disregarding tags after
the animals were slaughtered there, or, from other people,
farmers who maybe were deceased or no longer required their
herd books, they got into the hands of them sometimes as
well.
Q. And were they camouflaged, the fact that there had been an 9
original tag?
A. Yes. Once they removed the tags from the right ear, that's
the Northern Ireland tags in the right ear, they then had a
bucket mixture, and they would have tried to cover it up
with all sorts of things to close off the incision in each
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right ear of the animal. Thus, the animal, when they had
the other tags inserted, it left they were all -- they'd
become Republic of Ireland cattle as soon as they got
across the -- [loss of sound] -- of the border.
Q. I think the smuggling was not confined to cattle, I think 10
there were other products smuggled as well?
A. There were other products as well. Pigs would have been a
thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per pig.
The only thing there was, with the cattle, we had some more
better control over them because each animal was in the
respective farmer's herd book and, therefore, he had to
account for it whenever the Department of Agriculture
people came along; where is his stock. And he just kept
the thing. With pigs, they had no identity; each pig
looked the same north or south of the border and,
therefore, that was the problem. So the pigs would come
into the yard, and once they got into the yard, the tractor
unit, which would normally be the Northern Ireland unit,
bringing us into the yard, they would then would put on a
tractor unit from the Republic of Ireland and drive out
with a lorry laden with pigs bearing the Republic of
Ireland registration plates. And if they were stopped then
up the road, they were coming from the person in the
Republic of Ireland.
Q. And I think fuel was another item that was -- 11
A. Yes, fuel was a big business as well, and they were --
people from Northern Ireland, usually if the fuel was a
lesser cost in the south, each person would have went down
and got his car filled with fuel and back up again. But
then, other people decided that they would bring up loads
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of it into Northern Ireland and, therefore, there was a lot
of evasion of duty on the situation.
Q. When you talk about yards, bringing pigs or cattle into 12
yards, am I correct in thinking that these were the yards
of people who were actively involved in smuggling, who may
have been strategically positioned along the border
property-wise, is that correct?
A. Yes, in most cases the farms that we are referring to would
be south of the border. You would have part of the farm in
Northern Ireland, the dwelling house could be in the south
of Ireland and the yard itself could be in Northern
Ireland. So anybody going into trouble with, particularly
a vehicle laden with stuff into the Northern Ireland side
of the yard and then, subsequently, it would drive out the
other side, eventually to the Republic of Ireland.
Q. And how did the smugglers make their money then from these 13
transactions?
A. The smugglers made their money, they started off with
cattle, £100 per beast. Therefore, if you take away the
toll - there was a toll usually charged at these places for
about £2.50 per cow and £1 per pig - so if you'd a hundred
cattle, a hundred cattle, that would be a hundred £2.50s.
And the situation, the pigs were slightly different because
the pigs, once they went out and was brought back in then
illegally, they went out and was changed to effect again
from the south, most likely as this thing increased, the
lorry would be returned back into Northern Ireland by the
main route to Customs. And, therefore, cattle, pigs coming
back into Northern Ireland would qualify for a refund of
£10 per pig. So they did the car selling of pigs, maybe
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two or three times the pig would be going around and
around. And that was a big problem.
Q. This was obviously very big money, then, was it? 14
A. Absolutely.
Q. Are we talking about a multi-million pound industry?15
A. Yes, you would be talking about big, big money. In
particular, there was the cattle, there was the pigs, and
then there was the grain, and then there was also
importations of meat from the Republic of Ireland into
Northern Ireland, legally; they'd come to the Customs in
the south and then to the Customs in the north and they'd
declare -- but in due fact, when it was examined by Customs
or Department of Agriculture officials it was found that it
may be only trimmings, and they could take a load that
would be worth, maybe, eight to ten thousand pounds.
Q. What about cars, vehicles? 16
A. Car vehicles?
Q. Yes.17
A. Car vehicles was slightly different, they were -- people
from the south of Ireland were able to come up and buy cars
in Northern Ireland or across in England, come across and
then take them down, and they would have a similar type of
charge, I understand, maybe in the south, which was
dropped, and then that car, then, would be transferred
over, the details over to that.
Q. I see. Now, I think that in your business, you obviously 18
needed a lot of back-up from other agencies, is that so?
A. That is correct.
Q. And who would you have had to rely on in the course of your 19
work?
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A. Initially, it was the RUC and then it became the PSNI, and
any time that we would be doing a job for any length of
time in a particular border crossing, we would always, in
advance, seek the assistance of the police and...
Q. What about the Republic, did you have close connections 20
with the Customs people in the south, without mentioning
names?
A. Yes, we had an ongoing working relationship between
Northern Ireland Customs investigation and the SIB Customs
in Dublin.
Q. I think that is the Special Investigation Branch? 21
A. Special Investigation Branch, yes.
Q. And were you both of necessity involved very closely in 22
operations on the border?
A. Oh, yes, yes, nearly on most operations you would be in
touch on a daily basis or maybe a weekly basis, depending
on the situation, and you would get the person that is
going to handle it from the south and you would exchange
the information, and then they would take steps to cover
their side of the border, and then we would go in on this
side of the border.
Q. And do Customs people from the south freely travel 23
backwards and forwards, exchanging information with you and
working with you?
A. Yes.
Q. And were there particular -- were there particular sort of 24
provisions that allowed you to carry on your work and get
more success -- more successfully in relation to, for
example, dispensations in crossing the border?
A. Well, we had an understanding, we had an understanding that
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if we were in the border and we wanted to cross into the
border, we had a sort of a dispensation for to be able to
drive the car into the south and come back out again, and
the same thing would apply to them.
Q. And where was the most dangerous part of the province to 25
work in?
A. Well, the most dangerous part would have been maybe south
Armagh, one that comes to mind.
Q. I think that you were injured yourself in the cause of 26
your -- in the course of your duties at one point?
A. That's correct.
Q. And perhaps you might tell the Chairman about that? 27
A. Well, we went down -- I went down with three others, two
others in the car and another four people in another car
were further down the way and we were just going past the
Murphy property.
Q. Is this Murphy's in Ballybinaby? 28
A. Ballybinaby. Commonly known as Slab Murphy's property.
And we drove into the south. When we were coming back out
again we were assaulted by at least seven men, and we both
had to go to the doctor and then subsequently the hospital
for treatment.
Q. And what injuries did you sustain? 29
A. I received a burst eardrum and other minor injuries.
Q. I see. And do you know when that was? 30
A. Yes, it was on 1st of September 1978.
Q. I see. And were -- did you feel that you were under 31
serious threat at any other time during your career?
A. Any time you were working on the border, you found that you
were always under some restriction or threat of
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investigation because people, whenever you are going to
seize property from them, sometimes they don't take it
lightly, so we had to make arrangements to ensure that we
had special back-up from the police or the PSNI, and the
same would apply down the south.
Q. Yes. Now, I think that -- did you know Harry Breen and Bob 32
Buchanan, incidentally?
A. Yes, I knew the late Mr. Breen very well.
Q. Did you have occasion to work with him in the course of 33
your work?
A. I had occasions to have discussions with him, mainly, and I
knew of Bob Buchanan, but I never had much contact with
him. Mr. Breen was in charge of the division in Armagh.
Q. I think that, in fact, you have an entry in your diary 34
which you have there, which suggests that or indicates that
you had a meeting, you were supposed to have a meeting with
Harry Breen on the 21st of March, which was the day after
his murder?
A. That is correct.
Q. And unfortunately, he didn't make that meeting. Now, did 35
you know at the time what that meeting was about; had you
been filled in about it?
A. I just understand this, that Mr. Breen was going down to
discuss with the Garda colleagues as to the smuggling
activity in that particular area.
Q. Do you know when you became aware of that, was it at the 36
time or afterwards or in advance?
A. It would have been probably a good while before that and
leading up to that, that there was activity in that
particular area in relation to smuggling.
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Q. Yes. Now, can you tell us about 'Operation Amazing'? 37
A. 'Operation Amazing'?
Q. Yes.38
A. Yes. The 'Operation Amazing' was more or less for, a team
from Glasgow, they would come over to Northern Ireland and
they would have selected and assisted with the
investigation of certain targets, and that was what the
operation was named, for the smuggling of grain from
Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland, and vice
versa.
Q. I think am I correct in thinking that it was called amazing 39
after the word for grain, maize?
A. That's correct.
Q. And this would have started sometime in the '80s, is that 40
correct?
A. Yes, it was going for a long time, I understand.
Q. And at periods of time various people, various smugglers 41
were targeted?
A. That is correct.
Q. Am I correct in that in November of 1988, one particular 42
family of smugglers had been targeted in south Armagh?
A. That's correct.
Q. And searches were carried out in cooperation with the 43
southern Special Investigation Branch?
A. That's correct.
Q. And I think that there was a second, I see from diary 44
entries that there was a second search scheduled, I think
for the 21st of March, in another south Armagh smuggler?
A. Yes, that's correct. There was a knock supposed to be
taking place on the Tuesday, the 21st of March.
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Q. I think a knock is what you referred to, the operation, a 45
sting in the operation?
A. A sting in the operation, yes.
Q. And that was not on Mr. Murphy's land; it was on another 46
south Armagh property?
A. That's correct.
Q. And am I correct in thinking that that obviously had to be 47
cancelled --
A. Because of the deaths.
Q. -- because of the deaths, yes. So there was a build-up, 48
am I right in thinking there was a build-up at this stage
building up to perhaps a search or an operation against
'Slab' Murphy?
A. That's correct.
Q. And the Tribunal is aware, Witness M, that this particular 49
visit by Superintendent Buchanan and Chief Superintendent
Breen seems to have originated as a result of a dinner that
Mr. Breen attended on the 6th of March, 1989, in Stormont
Castle. The Tribunal has heard evidence that the Secretary
of State, Tom King, army personnel, and some -- a
particular Colonel, were present at this dinner. And the
subject of lorries transversing the Murphy property was
brought up, and there was some agitation or annoyance about
that, and it was indicated that something should be done
about it. Did you hear about that at the time?
A. Yes, I think I heard it shortly after that, that they were
wanting something done about the ongoing smuggling in
particular areas of south Armagh.
Q. Yes. And I think on the 7th of March, from our records, 50
and have already been put into the Tribunal, a Security
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Policy Meeting took place of the Chief Constable, the
general officer in command and others, to discuss this
particular situation that had been raised by the Secretary
of State. And I will refer you to a document which
Mr. Mills has a copy of there in court; it's HMG Document
58. It has already been opened to the Tribunal. And that
seems to consist of the minutes of this particular meeting.
And I will just read it to you, Witness M, to see what your
views are on that. Is it up on the screen, Mr. Mills?
MR. MILLS: Yes.
MRS. LAVERTY: Thank you.
Q. It's addressed to the Under Secretary Law and Order 51
Division, Stormont House, Belfast. And it's "Dear..." --
it's undated, and I'm not sure who the recipient is. It's
indicated "Murphy's farm".
"The Secretary of State mentioned" - blank - "observations
about 'Slab' Murphy and his smuggling operations in south
Armagh at the SPM yesterday."
Now, the SPM would have been the Security Policy Meeting,
which took place on the 7th of March, which obviously this
was the 8th of March.
"I have looked into the particular incident mentioned - 28
tankers over a 60-hour period, netting an alleged profit of
14K per vehicle - and now report back as requested.
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"The survey was made by the Glassdrumman Observation Tower,
G30, during a completely random survey between 0001 hours
on the 27th of February and 1200 hours on 1st of March,
1989. The bald facts that emanate from the survey are as
noted by the Secretary of State and there is nothing
further to add, except to confirm that the tanker's content
ands the alleged profit were as a result of informed
speculation rather than firm evidence."
So obviously there is a query there in relation to what was
alleged at the dinner.
It goes on to say there: "The question that the Secretary
of State raised specifically - who was told and what, if
anything, was done about it, is answered as follows:
Before embarking on the detail, however, it is important to
establish the context of Murphy's operations. You will, I
know, be aware that Murphy has been conducting his illicit
business for some years. He has, by a number of methods,
thwarted several attempts, including concerted RUC and
Garda efforts to shut him down.
All this is well-documented fact and such has been his
success that The Sunday Times devoted most of a coloured
supplement to explaining his modus operandi.
"With this in mind and recalling GOC's advice at the SPM,
that only a cumulative rather than individual exposure of
Murphy's smuggling would prove effective. The Observation
Tower survey was one of a number of surveys that are
directed at Murphy's operations. The information was
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collated manually by G30 and passed directly to 1 RRF
intelligence cell in Bessbrook Mill on 1st of March. That
information was shared routinely with the RUC liaison
officer in The Mill, entered on the military computer
Crucible on 2nd of March and then disseminated quite widely
to military and RUC addresses in 1 RRF intelligence summary
on the 5th of March.
"The point behind this is that the survey was not designed
for immediate executive action - Murphy's expertise has
moved well beyond the point of being disturbed by periodic
interception of fuel lorries. It will require a plan of
considerable depth and subtlety, possibly involving
additional legislation and certainly much cooperation from
the south, finally, to remove Murphy from the map.
"I have copied this letter to the Chief Constable's
Office."
Now, obviously, there is concern here that the information
that was proffered at the dinner on the 6th was inaccurate,
and we also, Witness M, have had evidence from - I will
just look up the cipher here now - from Witness 27, who
travelled to that dinner with Harry Breen. He gave
evidence to the Tribunal that coming back, they both
expressed dissatisfaction with the way this is being
handled; they felt that the Secretary of State shouldn't be
interfering with police work, which was their view, so
obviously they must have had some unease about this method
of approaching it, as well. What would be your view, as a
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Customs' person?
A. Well, my view on it would be more or less that the first
thing you'd have to do is to get the most up-to-date
intelligence, the number of vehicles, et cetera, that is
crossing on an unproved route. And once you get that then,
you have a rough idea then what's the end product going to
be and what further planning will take place. I was not --
I was unaware of the total end product of this but I knew
there was some form of concern over the movement of
vehicles and traffic and lorries in that particular area.
Q. And presumably, if you had had your meeting with Chief 52
Superintendent Breen and Bob Buchanan, you would have
canvassed this with him?
A. He would have updated us in what the position was.
Q. And would you have made recommendations arising out of that 53
meeting?
A. I would have reported that, the facts -- I was at the
meeting and my boss would have been with me, so it would
have been a matter of passing it on to the people who were
leading the operation.
Q. How dangerous would this operation be? 54
A. All operations along the border would be, a certain amount
of danger in relation to it, and this would be no
exception, and certainly you'd have to take the necessary
precautions to try and achieve the objective.
Q. What sort of precautions in the event that there was a big 55
operation going down, what sort of precautions were the
Customs allowed to take for their own safety, if you
considered that you were under threat?
A. Well, they'd be briefed to pay particular attention to
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themselves and what your own concerns was, and if they
needed any training or anything like that on it, you would
be advised to have it.
Q. And what about arms training or the carrying of weapons, 56
was that an option?
A. All Customs personnel were unarmed, but it was up to each
individually if you felt that way, that he could apply to
the local authorities, and that would be the police, for --
and apprise them of the facts.
Q. And if one were going into a serious operation where there 57
were several millions involved against any smuggler, would
that be a step that would be considered by the people
involved from Customs, that they would require to be armed?
A. Well, the police would be there, anyway, and they would
have their own necessary equipment with them, and we, as
Customs officers, on the day or whoever would be leading
the particular target on the day, they would be able to
carry on doing their job and have the freedom of being
looked after at the same time.
Q. The fact that, say, for instance, a smuggler got wind of 58
the fact that there was going to be a major move against
him by the -- all the authorities involved, do you think
that that particular organisation would take steps to
perhaps assassinate the people who might have been carrying
it out?
A. Well, the situation there would be is, depending on the
situation on the ground and the person involved, after all
they were smuggling for financial gain, and I am not so
sure what the length they would go to to achieve that
objective.
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Q. Would you go so far as to say they would go to considerable 59
lengths to achieve that objective, to divert or obstruct a
move against them?
A. Well, they would take the necessary precautions, anyway.
If they were -- if their operation was going to be
inhibited for any length of time, they certainly would do
something about it; they would maybe warn you off or
something like that there and, again, you would have to
rethink the strategy of the situation, leave it to another
day.
Q. Had that happened before, that you would get warnings or 60
threats from people who thought they were at risk of being
rumbled that they were --
A. Well, the situation is when you are dealing with smuggling
in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, between
Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, initially it
used to be a traditional thing, but whenever the MCAs came
into being, it became big money, so the whole oversight
changed.
Q. And the MCAs, of course as you said earlier, is monetary 61
compensation amounts?
A. Compensation, yeah.
Q. I think you did tell me originally that the Customs' view 62
was that you were focused on smuggling and terrorism was
for somebody else to sort out?
A. That is correct, our job was to do the all-round, the
collecting of the revenue with our colleagues from the
Republic of Ireland, and try and achieve that objective,
and given that our outlook for farmers within Northern
Ireland and the same in the Republic of Ireland.
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Q. But to what extent were there, too, of them entering into 63
smuggling and the IRA, PIRA at the time?
A. Well, it would be difficult to assess that from a security
point of view, but that is the main reason that the police
would have been there and they would have been in
possession of that knowledge.
Q. Could you smuggle on a large scale without being a member 64
of the IRA?
A. Well, if people smuggling and -- [loss of sound] -- on that
particular question, it's a difficult one.
Q. Now, I think that, I had spoken to a colleague of yours who 65
was very helpful in providing diary extracts but we didn't
manage to allay his concerns about his security, so he is
not going to give evidence, for the moment. And I am just
wondering, do you have any notes in your diary about
visitations from the Special Investigative Branch prior to
the murders and after this meeting, this directive, because
I have --
A. Any particular date?
Q. Yes, there is the 7th of March, the 14th of March, 66
telephone calls on the 15th of March?
A. No, I would have nothing on the 7th.
Q. Were you elsewhere at the time? 67
A. Yes, I was dealing with other matters in a different part
of the country.
Q. I see. Now, I think that as a result of the minutes of the 68
meeting that I have read out to you, there was a directive,
a file was opened on 'Slab' Murphy, a query was -- sought
the views of the Garda and the file was due for reporting
on 24th of March, 1989. Now, there was a memo sent to --
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by the -- witness -- let me see -- Witness 56 sent a memo
to Senior Ops and Senior ACC C&E and indicated that the
Chief Constable wanted a report on the matter and the Garda
view was to be sought via Divisional Commander H, and that,
of course, was Harry Breen, and it was indicated that the
request was to be treated as urgent. Mr. Cushley, who has
given evidence before the Tribunal -- [loss of sound] --
forwarding this memo to the Regional ACC Rural East
indicating, that again, the report is required by the 24th
of the 3rd. And, at this point Harry Breen was actually
out on leave. So Harry Breen has now been given his order
to progress this matter as a result of the security meeting
on the 7th. Now, on the 16th of March, then, we heard from
Superintendent Buchanan's diary. He noted in his journal
"Duty to Armagh, meeting with ACC re 'Slab' Murphy," and
that is HMG36. He attended a briefing at Armagh station
attended by the ACC and others. And orders to conduct an
operation were given to the RUC and the army, and Chief
Superintendent Breen was placed at that. So, do you have
any knowledge of that meeting on the 16th or were you again
--
A. I was dealing with other matters in County Down.
Q. Okay. Now, on the 14th of March, which was one of the days 69
that the Special Investigative Unit were visiting, that you
haven't got a note of there, the Tribunal has heard that
Superintendent Buchanan, accompanied by Inspector Day,
called to Dundalk, and on that day Inspector Day felt they
were being followed. So there seems to be an interest in,
certainly in the car on that day. You haven't any --
A. No.
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Q. You weren't anywhere around the area at the time? 70
A. No.
Q. Now, on the 20th of March, then, you had, I think you had a 71
meeting with Special Branch, according to your diary, is
that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. And did you have a security chat with Witness M [sic], your 72
colleague, who feels unable to attend?
A. Yes, he had been apprised of the facts and any names we
would have, and if he was not present, we withdrew then to
him.
Q. Yes, it was, of course, the day of the murder? 73
A. That's the day of the murder, yes.
Q. Do you recall what views you had about security or what 74
concerns you would have expressed about security? Would it
have been in relation to your own operation that was --
A. Well, it would be a matter then for the people who were
running the operation to have a rethink and discuss the way
forward with the PSNI or the Special Branch.
Q. I think on the 23rd of March, then, I was advised that your 75
colleague went down to Dublin, again discussing the
situation in relation to Murphy and 'Operation Amazing', do
you know about that?
A. Yes, I remember that he travelled to Dublin via Newry.
Q. Have you particular reason for remembering that? 76
A. Well, I understand that it was to get some photocopying
done.
Q. And where would he have done the photocopying? 77
A. The photocopying I think was being done by our colleagues
in the Republic of Ireland.
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Q. So they would have provided you with copies of documents 78
that they had?
A. They would have been providing that particular gentleman
with the copies and they would be photocopied if they were
applicable to what the inquiry related to.
Q. And was the inquiry, do you recall, relating to a move 79
against 'Slab' Murphy?
A. It is mostly likely, it is most likely concerned with the
illegal exports of grain, et cetera, and if the 'Operation
Amazing' was still ongoing, it would have been applicable
to it, probably.
Q. Yes. And where would those documents have gone? 80
A. They would have been handed over to -- once they were
received, they would have been handed over to the officers
that were leading the inquiry.
Q. Yes. And would that be in Glasgow? 81
A. It would be in Belfast initially and then they would have
been looking after the --
Q. Yes. Now, I think 'Operation Amazing' certainly continued 82
up -- [loss of sound] -- because I think that there was
another series of arrests against other smugglers in May of
1989, is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. And I think you are looking at your diary now? 83
A. Yes.
Q. And can you just tell the Chairman and the Tribunal -- I 84
think it was the -- was that the 23rd of May -- yes, I
think it certainly was May; I am not sure of the date, I'm
afraid. Perhaps you might just tell us about it, because
you have -- the 27th of May. 23rd of May?
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A. 23rd of May?
Q. Yes. 85
A. What is the question?
Q. Just as a follow-up to 'Operation Amazing', there was some 86
more smugglers, a group of people, it was alleged that they
were smuggling, arrested around the 23rd of May?
A. Yes, I think there was six people in all arrested that
morning; I think that was one in a different part from the
border.
Q. And one person who was -- who came to notice of the 87
Tribunal was a Mr. McAnulty. Do you recall his --
A. Yes, Mr. McAnulty was one of the six.
Q. Yes. Did you arrest him? 88
A. No.
Q. Yes. Have I the date correct, was it around 23rd of May? 89
A. Actually, that one --
Q. I know it's the 23rd of May from your colleague's diary but 90
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
A. Yes.
Q. Now, I think that you are aware of the -- 91
A. Excuse me, it was the 23rd of May.
Q. Yes. 92
A. I have the diary open now.
Q. There is another matter that I need to ask you about, 93
because you are aware of our terms of reference,
allegations, investigating allegations of collusion that
may or may not have taken place between PIRA and any State
agent, and that would include the Gardaí. I think that you
have some information for the Tribunal in relation to
Detective Sergeant Owen Corrigan, is that correct?
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A. Yes, I was at a meeting in Edward Street Police Station in
Newry, otherwise known as Corry Square at that time, and I
was warned by a colleague, who is now deceased, that
Detective Sergeant Corrigan, who was allegedly leaking
information, was in the room -- empty -- [loss of sound] --
so there was another few Garda personnel there as well.
Now, I had prior knowledge of Owen Corrigan, just in
passing, his name came up since early 1988 because of
meetings, but I didn't know anything about him except for
hearing his name, up to this time. He was at the liaison
meeting, it was a Christmas gathering, there were perhaps
20 people in attendance, and my colleague pointed
Mr. Corrigan out to me and warned me off against him, as it
was alleged he was leaking information. In view of what he
said, and the fact that I had previously in 1988 heard the
name regarding him, I avoided contact with him.
Q. Now, how do you know that you met him on this particular 94
date? Do you have something in your diary?
A. I have a note in my diary that I was at the meeting and
that there was Garda personnel there and that Mr. Connolly
-- this was the 21st of the 12th, '88 --
Q. Witness M is now getting his 1988 diary. 95
A. We went to Newry at quarter to two and I met with my
colleague and friend and then I spoke to PSNI officers and
also Garda personnel, which allegedly included Detective
Sergeant Corrigan.
Q. Do you have his name written in the diary? 96
A. No, it's not his name, it's just under "Garda personnel".
But my colleague pointed him out, he says he was in the
building and I -- I just had no contact with him. I didn't
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know much of him up to that other than I heard the name.
Q. In what context did you hear the name? 97
A. Pardon?
Q. Why would you have heard his name? 98
A. I heard just the name in passing, that there was somebody
allegedly -- there was information getting out and that
that name came up, but I hadn't --
Q. Can I show that page to the Chairman? 99
A. Yes.
Q. I don't know if you can see it, Chairman. It's a diary 100
extract dated 21st, Wednesday, of December 1988.
MR. SWEENEY: Mary, can you move it closer to your face and
higher and then bring it closer to the screen. Just read
it out, we can't see.
MRS. LAVERTY: I think I will get Witness M to read his own
writing.
Q. If you could read out the relevant extract. 101
A. "To RUC liaison meeting. Met a Detective Inspector and
others, also Garda personnel. Various discussions." And
then I met my boss later on that night and then I went back
to Belfast at 19:40 hours.
Q. So Owen Corrigan's name isn't -- 102
A. Owen Corrigan's name is not in the diary.
Q. It's not in the diary. I thought that you said that it 103
was?
A. No.
Q. Yes. You recall at that particular meeting you met him, is 104
that right?
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A. Oh, yes, I saw him; I didn't meet him.
Q. And you didn't know anything else about him? 105
A. I knew nothing else about him.
Q. And had he ever come to your attention from a professional 106
point of view, in a smuggling context, had he ever come to
your attention?
A. No.
Q. So this was, if you like, gossip, was it? 107
A. Well, the person that told me, he would have knew him, of
course he was involved in investigations and he would have
knew of him, and he just mentioned to me in passing, he
says - this is the Detective Sergeant, "Don't be saying
anything". And that's what happened, and I didn't
participate in any conversation with the gentleman
concerned.
Q. I see. Now, I think that you, following the deaths of 108
Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan, you had a meeting on the 28th
of March --
A. Yes.
Q. -- 1989. And perhaps you could have a look at your diary 109
for that day?
A. 1989.
Q. I think that you said in your statement that was attended 110
by Alan Mains?
A. That's correct.
Q. Who was a Staff Officer, Harry Breen's Staff Officer? 111
A. Yes.
Q. And do you recall that meeting? 112
A. I do, yes. We were having a general discussion and Alan
Mains --
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Q. What was the purpose of that meeting, do you recall? 113
A. It was just after -- immediately after two -- two or three
days after the deaths, and we called into the police
station and we met with a Superintendent who was taking the
place of Harry Breen, the late Harry Breen, and Alan Mains
was there.
Q. And did you have -- did you have any discussion about the 114
events that had happened, with Alan Mains?
A. We had a slight discussion about it, and he made it clear
at that conversation that Harry Breen didn't want to go to
the meeting in Dundalk in the first place.
Q. I think he has given that evidence to the Tribunal, and he 115
made a statement to that effect, I think prior to your
meeting with him --
A. Yes.
Q. -- so we understand from the evidence before the Tribunal. 116
Do you have anything -- can I ask you, did the operation
against Murphys go ahead eventually at the scale envisaged?
A. I understand it did. I wasn't present at it, but there was
an operation went down at it, and it covered both sides of
the border.
MRS. LAVERTY: Thank you very much. And perhaps now you
can answer any questions that they may wish to ask in the
south.
CHAIRMAN: Any questions?
MR. McGUINNESS: Yes, Chairman.
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THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS
AS FOLLOWS:
Q. MR. McGUINNESS: Good morning, Witness M. My name is 117
Diarmuid McGuinness, and I appear for An Garda Siochana.
Can you hear me?
A. Yes.
Q. Can I ask you, Witness M, have you any evidence that any 118
member of An Garda Siochana colluded with the IRA in the
murders of Superintendent Buchanan and Chief Superintendent
Breen?
A. No, I have no evidence of that.
Q. Okay. Now, can I just ask you this: Obviously, you have 119
got your diary entry showing that a meeting had been
arranged with Chief Superintendent Breen for the 21st of
March, isn't that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And did he make that appointment with you? 120
A. It was made, I think, by Mr. Mains.
Q. Mr. Mains made that appointment? 121
A. Yes, I understand that, now.
Q. But did he make that with you over the phone or how was it 122
made?
A. The meeting would have been arranged over the phone to say
that Mr. Breen requested a meeting in Armagh on that
particular date.
Q. All right. Were you stationed in Armagh at that point in 123
time?
A. Pardon?
Q. Were you stationed in Armagh or based in Armagh? 124
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A. No, I was stationed in Belfast.
Q. Belfast. All right. Can I ask you this: Would that 125
appointment have been made by Mr. Mains with you or by
appointment with somebody acting on your behalf?
A. No, I understand that Mr. Breen had asked Mr. Mains to
contact me and see would I be available on the same date,
and I received a call from, I think it was Mr. Mains, or
someone acting on his behalf, for the meeting for that
particular day.
Q. I am just trying to elicit that. You received the call and 126
you think it was from Sergeant Mains?
A. Yes.
Q. And can you recollect when that was? Can you hear me? 127
MRS. LAVERTY: No, we lost you there for a minute.
Q. MR. McGUINNESS: When was that phone call made to you? 128
A. On the 21st?
Q. No, arranging the meeting on the 21st. When was the phone 129
call made to you?
MRS. LAVERTY: When would he have made the phone call?
A. He would actually have made the phone call maybe the day
that Mr. Breen was going to Dundalk, it was that particular
day, to say that he wanted a meeting the next day in
anticipation.
Q. MR. McGUINNESS: Okay. Can I ask you, is that your 130
recollection, that it was arranged on the morning of the
20th or is that what you are assuming happened?
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A. I just can't give you the actual time, but I received the
call sometime on that particular day, the day that
Mr. Breen, on the 20th.
Q. All right. Okay. Now, you have told the Tribunal that you 131
knew Mr. Breen well and, as I understand it, you told the
Chairman that you knew that Mr. Breen was going -- was
going to go down to discuss matters with his Garda
colleagues sometime after the meeting of the 6th of March.
Can I ask you this: Did you learn that Mr. Breen was going
to go down before Sergeant Mains phoned you on the 20th?
A. No, I wasn't aware of that.
Q. All right. I thought you had told the Chairman that you 132
heard shortly after the meeting of the 6th of March that
the authorities wanted something done about it, is that
right?
A. That was the general consensus, yes.
Q. Yes. But when did you first hear that there would be an 133
operation possibly mounted against Mr. Murphy?
A. I wasn't directly involved in that myself.
Q. I understand. 134
A. Because that was being led by another team.
Q. Yes.135
A. And I had to deal with other matters at the same time, so I
wasn't aware of the overall situation, the preplanning or
anything like that.
Q. I understand. But I just want to try and, as it were, pin 136
you down a little more if possible in terms of time. Did
you learn the week before the Superintendents were shot
that there was talk of an operation in relation to
Mr. Murphy?
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A. An operation going down?
Q. Yes.137
A. Well, as far as the particular subject you are mentioning
there, I wouldn't have known when the actual day or week
when it was going, because as I say, that particular
operation - I assume that you are referring to 'Operation
Amazing' - that would have been handled by other people, so
I wouldn't have been directly involved as to the date, the
actual date or dates.
Q. All right. But Mrs. Laverty opened to you the minutes of 138
this meeting of a direction that was given by the Chief
Constable about getting a report into Mr. Murphy's
activities, and can I ask you this: Did you learn of that
at that time?
A. No, I knew there was something, I knew that the authorities
were concerned about the smuggling activity right across
the border but I wasn't aware of this particular meeting at
that time until I learned of it.
Q. Okay. So, can I ask you this question, then: Was the 20th 139
of March the first time that you learned that Harry Breen
was going down to Dundalk?
A. Yes, that the -- the 20th of March, the 20th of March, yes.
I wouldn't have known any forward knowledge of what the
late Mr. Breen would have been doing.
Q. Yes. But you learned from Sergeant Mains on the 20th that 140
he was going down to Dundalk to discuss it with the guards
and that he wanted to meet you then the next day?
A. I understand that he phoned up and said that "Mr. Breen
wants to meet you tomorrow," and that was arranged, and I
said, "Okay, let me know later." And then that fell
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through.
Q. All right. You have referred to 'Operation Amazing' there, 141
and you have referred to six people being arrested in May
of 1989, one of them being a Mr. John McAnulty, is that
right?
A. I was aware that he had been arrested but I know nothing
about his particular arrest or the other -- I was only
concerned -- I was allocated to go out with another chap
who was dealing with one of the other six, and I was
dealing with him, the two of us was dealing with him, and
that was it.
Q. Yes. Can you confirm that was an operation relating to 142
grain smuggling?
A. That was an operation to grain smuggling in general, yes.
Q. In general. And can you confirm that Mr. McAnulty was 143
arrested and released without charge at that point in time?
A. Again, I wasn't into the, actually, all the details of that
particular situation, and the people that were in charge of
that investigation, we were -- each person had to look
after the person that they were allocated the post to deal
with it.
Q. I understand. 144
A. But I understand that he was in the building at one time
and -- but I had no contact with him.
Q. Yes. But obviously, it would be regarded as a success if 145
an operation resulted in the bringing of charges against
any of those arrested, and have you any recollection as to
whether Mr. McAnulty was charged or not?
A. I couldn't honestly answer that question, I am not sure,
because he could have been, he could have been dealt with
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something, but I have no knowledge of whether he was
charged or released without charge.
Q. Yes. All right. Now, just turning to this meeting in 146
December of 1988. Did you know who had arranged this
liaison meeting in Newry Garda Station -- in Newry Police
Station?
A. That would have been arranged just through some of the
local detectives there, who'd say, "Right, we are having a
liaison meeting." And that was it. And I attended that
meeting.
Q. Yes. And do you know what other Garda officers were 147
present at that meeting?
A. No, all I know, there was other Garda -- some other Garda
personnel present. It was just a liaison meeting.
Q. And it was at that meeting or on that day that you heard 148
for the first time this talk about Sergeant Corrigan?
A. I had heard the name before, but I never gave it much
thought, but on the day, at that meeting, my colleague came
over to me and said that there was a Detective Sergeant
Corrigan in the room, and on hearing his name -- except for
hearing his name up to this point, I wasn't aware of the
gentleman concerned.
Q. All right. And can I ask you this: Presumably, you had 149
been aware that there had been a bombing of Newry Police
Station at Corry Square in 1985; nine officers were
killed --
A. That's right.
Q. -- when a mortar hit the canteen, and many others injured. 150
You were presumably aware of that?
A. I was aware of that, yes.
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Q. Would you be surprised if the RUC either invited or 151
permitted any member of An Garda Siochana into the station
who had been suspected of passing information to the IRA?
A. I couldn't make any comment on that, that would be a matter
for the PSNI or the police at that particular time. It
wouldn't be up to us to make any comment on that.
Q. All right. Well, did you raise any query with any of your 152
superiors after going to a meeting and finding a member of
An Garda Siochana there who was alleged to be helping the
IRA?
A. All I related was to the person, my immediate boss, that we
were at the meeting and what my colleague would have told
him as well, he had more knowledge of it than me. I wasn't
aware of the full facts relating to the same person.
Q. So your boss wasn't aware of this, on your recollection? 153
A. Say again.
Q. Your boss wasn't aware of this before you informed him of 154
this, is that right?
A. I just -- I was just advising him, saying that we were at
the meeting and that my colleague had said that there was a
Mr. Corrigan there, and that was it. I avoided contact
with him. The only thing I knew about him was, I learned
he was in Special Branch, that is all. I knew nothing
about him otherwise.
Q. All right. Yes. But may the Chairman take it that up to 155
this date in time, you had never been involved in any
operation involving that particular Sergeant, had you?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And I note that in your statement you have referred 156
to a previous diary entry for a meeting with Mr. Breen on
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the 5th of October, 1988. Can you recollect where that was
or can you help the Chairman as to where that meeting was?
A. Yes, that was on Wednesday the 5th.
Q. And where was -- 157
A. I conversed -- I have in my diary, "Conversed with Chief
Superintendent Breen and [Witness 39], also CID personnel."
And then I moved on to another visit, to the Customs
station itself.
Q. And can you tell the Tribunal where that meeting took place 158
or what it related to?
A. That related to a place at Armagh RUC station, PSNI
station.
Q. Was that in connection with 'Operation Amazing' or some 159
other operation?
A. We did call in from time to time and have general
discussions in general, and we discussed anything that
would have been discussed, nothing specific unless there
was an ongoing operation going.
Q. Okay. So, you have no recollection of anything in 160
particular, but it's simply a meeting that you had with
Chief Superintendent Breen?
A. No.
MR. McGUINNESS: Okay. Thank you very much, Witness M.
A. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN: Any questions from anybody else?
THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN AS
FOLLOWS:
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Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Good afternoon, sir. Can you hear me? 161
A. Yes.
Q. I appear for Owen Corrigan, I just have a few questions for 162
you. Do you have your statement in front of you, sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Could I ask you to go to page 2 of it and the section of 163
your statement where you refer to the meeting in Armagh RUC
Station on the 5th of October, 1988. It's the second-last
paragraph, sir.
A. Yes.
Q. You will see there, sir, the last two sentences in that 164
paragraph state the following, you say: "On the 5th of
October, 1988, I met with Harry Breen and Witness 39.
There were some CID personnel present and Harry did not
speak freely." I am just wondering, sir, why was it, do
you think, that Mr. Breen didn't speak freely in the
presence of some CID officers?
A. I just can't recollect individual persons that were there,
but when that phraseology "did not speak freely", it means
that if he was going to talk about something specific, that
is what I would be relating to there.
Q. Would you agree with me that there would be nothing unusual 165
in a police officer not discussing sensitive security
matters in front of other police officers?
A. Well, I wouldn't -- as far as I was concerned, on the 5th
of the 10th, '88, I met with Mr. Harry Breen and there was
some other CID personnel that could have been about,
present, and Harry did not speak freely; he didn't talk in
general terms, we just talked about whatever was discussed
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at the time, it could have been about anything.
Q. The meaning I took from the sentence, and correct me if I 166
am wrong, is that Harry Breen was reticent or didn't speak
freely because there were other CID personnel present and
he didn't want to talk freely in their presence, is that
correct?
A. No, I wouldn't agree with that, because as far as the other
people present, that was -- I couldn't say to the late
Harry Breen what to speak about because I couldn't say, I
just said that he didn't -- we didn't talk in general terms
about everything else.
Q. Well, why do you say he didn't speak freely? 167
A. Well, it's just I would have thought in the conversation,
just normally you'd get people speaking and they are
discussing various things, and he'd only be speaking about
anything that would be agreeable to whatever people were
doing or saying. It was a general conversation, that is
all I can recollect on that particular thing.
Q. You then have the meeting on the 21st of December, 1988, in 168
Newry. Just for confirmation, sir, there is absolutely no
mention of Owen Corrigan in your diary entry, isn't that
correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. How do you recall, then, that Barry Connolly told you about 169
Detective Sergeant Corrigan at that meeting?
A. Well, I was in the building and the gentleman you mentioned
there, he spoke to me and he says that he recognised about
Detective Sergeant Corrigan and I just says, I thought
about what he had said and as I had no conversation with
him, I hadn't heard much about the man in the past, other
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than his name had been mentioned in general terms and that
was it.
Q. What did Barry Connolly say to you? 170
A. What did Barry Connolly say to me?
Q. Yes.171
A. He pointed over to a person and warned me off against him,
as he was alleged to be leaking some information to certain
people.
Q. Well, did he say, "That man leaks information to certain 172
people"?
A. I don't know what the end product of it was now, to be
quite honest, like, but as far as he was concerned, he
pointed him out to me. I had no conversation with the man
concerned, and that was it.
Q. How did you reply to what Barry Connolly said to you? 173
A. Pardon?
Q. How did you reply to what Barry Connolly said to you? 174
A. I said, "That's okay."
Q. What did you understand as him being -- as him referring to 175
"other people" as?
A. Well, he was referring to what he heard or knew about and
he was just relating it to me, and he told me sometimes
that whenever people are speaking, that they are speaking
to people and there is other people there and he just said
that, he mentioned Mr. Corrigan. And I had no contact then
with Mr. Corrigan or anybody, and that was it.
Q. Did Mr. Connolly say to you that Owen Corrigan was giving 176
information to the IRA?
A. No.
Q. When did Barry Connolly die? 177
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A. It's about ten years ago, I think.
Q. When you received this information from him, what did you 178
understand it as referring to? Who did you think Owen
Corrigan was giving information to?
A. I didn't form an opinion on Mr. Corrigan.
Q. Who did -- well, what did you form an opinion as to what 179
Barry Connolly was saying? Who do you think information
was being given out to by Owen Corrigan?
A. I don't know where Mr. Connolly got it from, he just
mentioned it to me in passing at the meeting and that was
all I had with him about the same conversation.
Q. Well, it's obviously something that has stuck in your mind, 180
since you are well able to remember 24 years later without
any note in your diary, so why did it have such an impact
upon your recollection?
A. Because I remember the particular date, being in the place,
and I checked my diary, and I remember at that particular
time Mr. Connolly mentioned that, what you stated there.
Q. What did you do with this information when Mr. Connolly 181
mentioned it to you?
A. Well, that would be up to Mr. Connolly because he would
have knew all about it, so he would have passed it on to
his in-line line manager.
Q. Are you saying that Barry Connolly did pass it on to his 182
line manager?
MRS. LAVERTY: Did Barry Connolly pass it on to his line
manager, do you know?
A. I am not so sure. I would have no doubt he did pass it on
but I have nothing in my diary other than the fact that I
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was at a meeting and Mr. Connolly informed him.
Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Did you mention it to anyone after the 183
meeting, what Barry Connolly had said to you?
A. I mentioned -- I mentioned it to my in-line line manager in
passing, and that was it.
Q. What did you say to him in passing? 184
A. I just said as I discussed there, that I was at the meeting
and Mr. Connolly came over to me and said that the person
who was in the room, that is Detective Sergeant Corrigan,
and to be careful what I was saying.
Q. And did your line manager say to you, well who is he giving 185
information to?
A. No, that would have been down to him as to what to do about
it.
Q. And when do you think you may have mentioned that to your 186
line manager?
A. I would probably have mentioned it to him that particular
night.
Q. Did you mention it to anyone else in the intervening 24 187
years since that night and the evidence today?
A. I never -- [loss of sound] -- the 'Operation Amazing', and
therefore, I wasn't involved in that --
Q. Sorry, sir, I think we missed your answer there, there was 188
a break in the link, and if I might ask you the question
again. You can answer it again so we can hear it. Have
you ever mentioned it to anyone else between the 21st of
December, '88, and today, giving evidence here?
A. Other than whenever I was asked about it by the Tribunal
personnel.
Q. When were you asked by the Tribunal personnel? 189
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MRS. LAVERTY: When were you asked by the Tribunal
personnel?
A. The 24th of the 5th, '12. 24th of May this year.
Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Okay. So you don't mention it to anyone 190
for 24 years. What made you speak to the Tribunal
personnel? Did anyone approach you asking you to assist
the Tribunal?
A. No, they just asked me in general, what was I -- on that
particular date in my diary, and that is what I
recollected.
Q. Did anyone else ask you to talk to the Tribunal? 191
A. No.
Q. No one approached you other than the Tribunal, for the 192
purpose of assisting this Tribunal?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you aware of this Tribunal's existence? 193
A. Yes, in general terms, yes.
Q. Why, then, didn't you seek to come and give this 194
information to the Tribunal prior to the 24th of May 2012?
A. I understand you have to be asked to do these things,
and -- that is as far as I went. Whenever I got the
meeting, I was at the meeting on the 24th of the 5th and in
the presence of my in-line line manager, and that was it.
Q. Did you receive any contact or communication from 195
Mr. McBurney, solicitor, asking you to assist the Tribunal?
A. Mr. McBurney?
Q. Yes.196
A. Mr. McBurney was in contact or he was -- he was in contact,
as well, and it was just, more or less, kind of, would I be
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available to go to -- as a witness. So I had very little
conversation with him about anything in particular.
Q. When did Mr. McBurney contact you? 197
A. I think it must have been around about the 24th of the 5th,
as well.
Q. Did he contact you before the Tribunal spoke to you? 198
A. I am just checking here. No, I had very little contact
with anybody regarding it, and very little contact with
anybody, really.
Q. Did Mr. McBurney ask you to give evidence to this Tribunal? 199
A. He might have mentioned would I be available to give
evidence and would I be agreeable, and I said, well...
That is all, that is the point of conversation I had with
him, unless the people from the Tribunal themselves were
there and we explained to them at the time what took place.
Q. Did Mr. McBurney mention to you or raise the name with you, 200
of Owen Corrigan?
MRS. LAVERTY: Did Mr. McBurney raise the name of Owen
Corrigan to you?
A. I just am not so sure because there was that many names
going around, and we were talking just in general terms,
and, at the meeting on the 24th, we then went through it in
detail.
Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: So you could remember, sir, Owen 201
Corrigan's name being mentioned to you 24 years ago by
Barry Connolly?
A. Yes.
Q. But you are saying you can't recall whether Owen Corrigan's 202
name was mentioned to you within the last three weeks by
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Mr. McBurney?
A. It could have been mentioned to me, it could have been
mentioned, but there was nothing untowards. It clicked
with me that that was the person that was in Newry that
particular night.
Q. What did Mr. McBurney say to you about Owen Corrigan? 203
A. I just can't recollect what he said, in detail. He
didn't -- there was no concentration on Detective Sergeant
Corrigan.
Q. I want you to try and recall, sir. You have a good memory 204
when it comes to Owen Corrigan; as I say, you remember what
was said about him 24 years ago. I am asking you what was
said by Mr. McBurney about him within the last three weeks?
A. Well, just, if anybody did ask me, it was just to say, you
know, Sergeant Corrigan, I only know of him; I don't know
the man.
Q. Well, presumably, sir, somebody put the name 'Owen 205
Corrigan' to you on the 24th of May last, is that correct?
A. Whenever the diary was checked on the 24th and we went
through them in relation to that particular date, I checked
my diary and I remembered because -- that Mr. Connolly had
advised me, and that was all the conversation we had,
really, about it.
Q. You also say you had a meeting with Mr. Mains on the 28th 206
of March, 1989, isn't that correct?
A. 28th?
Q. 28th of March, 1989, isn't that correct? 207
A. Yes, yes, that's correct.
Q. Can you read out what is the record in your diary from that 208
date in 1989, please?
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A. That was on the 29th of March, that meeting took place on
the 29th of March.
Q. Sorry, the reason I said the 28th of March is because your 209
statement says the 28th of March, at the end of it, on the
third page. But read out the 29th of March, anyway, will
you?
A. I went to Armagh with Mr. Connolly and I met with [Witness
39] and Mr. Alan Mains, Sergeant. We spoke briefly about
Mr. Breen, Breen -- and further discussion with [Witness
39], and it was during this particular meeting that
Mr. Mains made it clear that Harry Breen did not want to go
to the meeting in Dundalk.
Q. And is that the last thing in your diary? 210
A. I have it just down as "various topics".
Q. Sorry, I asked you to read out your diary. Are the 211
following words in your diary: "He made it clear that
Harry Breen did not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk"?
Is that in your diary?
A. "At Armagh, met [Witness 39], Mains and Mr. Breen, and then
meeting with [Witness 39], and various topics," and it was
during the conversation that that came up.
Q. Hold on -- 212
A. That particular quote is not in my diary.
Q. OK, OK. How do you recall, 24 years ago, that Alan Mains 213
said to you that Harry Breen did not want to go to the
meeting in Dundalk?
A. I just didn't get that.
Q. How do you recall that at the meeting on the 29th of March, 214
1989, Harry Breen said -- or Alan Mains said to you that
Harry Breen did not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk?
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A. Well, the situation was, I was in Armagh, and that was
three days after the death of Mr. Breen, and Mr. Mains was
there, and the discussion took place, and I remember, I
remember Alan Mains saying Harry Breen didn't want to go
there in the first place, and it stuck in my mind, that is
all. All I know, that he said that.
Q. Can I ask you, sir, did Mr. McBurney mention to you, when 215
you met him, that Alan Mains had given evidence to this
Tribunal that he recalled Harry Breen saying to him that he
did not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk?
A. I think that remark might have been passed, but I am not so
sure about it, by Mr. McBurney.
Q. I have to put it to you, sir, and please don't be offended 216
by this, but what, clearly, has happened here, I suggest to
you, is that Mr. McBurney got in contact with you and --
A. Yes.
Q. -- he filled your mind full of information that you don't 217
recall but which he managed to get you to put in your
statement, such as, one, Barry Connolly mentioning Owen
Corrigan at the meeting on the 21st of December, 1988; and,
two, the reference to Alan Mains allegedly stating that
Harry Breen did not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk.
Would you comment on that, please, sir?
A. I would comment on it. I remember, I remember Mr. Connolly
just drawing to my attention about the first part of your
question. And the second part, I was present whenever Alan
Mains made the comment, and I think Mr. McBurney may have
asked me did I -- would I have remembered it. I remember
that comment being made at that particular time; it's a
very difficult time, and that was it.
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Q. Who typed up this statement for you? 218
A. Pardon?
MRS. LAVERTY: I am sorry, we lost you there.
Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Who typed up this statement for you? 219
MRS. LAVERTY: The Tribunal.
A. The Tribunal typed it up. They took the notes and they
subsequently passed the statement to me.
MR. O'CALLAGHAN: You also mentioned that you had prior
knowledge of Owen Corrigan since early 1988. What
knowledge did you have of him?
A. It was any time that we were working on the border, we
always checked out to see what the situation was regarding
information, et cetera, and his name came up before, and I
never thought anything about it until I heard the name
again in Corry Square.
Q. When you say "his name came up," what did his name come up 220
as?
A. Just come up as he was a Detective Sergeant in Dundalk
and --
Q. So, in fairness to you, sir, you are not saying there was 221
anything negative said about Owen Corrigan when you heard
about his name prior to Mr. Connolly mentioning it to you,
is that correct?
A. There was very little negative at that particular time.
Q. Sorry, sir, I didn't hear your answer there? 222
A. There was very little discussion about Mr. Corrigan.
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Q. OK. 223
A. In general terms, his name might have come up, and that was
all the -- the situation that I can remember.
Q. But am I correct in stating that his name only came up 224
because he was a member of Special Branch in Dundalk?
A. That could have been, that could have been, but, I mean, I
had nothing else in that particular position regarding
Detective Sergeant Corrigan.
Q. What is your recollection of who brought up his name? 225
MRS. LAVERTY: What is your recollection of who brought up
his name?
A. I can't remember, now, who brought up his name. Just --
[loss of sound] -- watch this, that and the other. I am
not saying -- it would have come up in general, but it
wasn't anything on paper, or anything like that; it was
just, when you are making inquiries, but there is
nothing -- I didn't know the man, I couldn't recognise --
other than, on the day in question, I was told to be
careful of what I was saying, and that is what I did, and I
had no contact with him.
Q. But just to finalise this point, sir; you are not saying 226
that you heard negative comments about Owen Corrigan in
early 1988, are you?
A. I just heard the name Corrigan. I don't know what the
context was at the time. It could have been about
anything. But as far as Detective Sergeant Corrigan, it
only came to mind that I remembered the name when
Mr. Connolly at that particular time told me about him. He
seemed to be -- know something about him, and I didn't have
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any conversation with the gentleman concerned.
MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Thanks, sir.
CHAIRMAN: Any other questions for the witness?
MR. COFFEY: If I may, Mr. Chairman.
THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY AS FOLLOWS:
Q. MR. COFFEY: Witness M, I appear for retired Sergeant Leo 227
Colton, and I want to ask you some questions.
First of all, you make a distinction about being a British
civil servant as opposed to a Northern Ireland civil
servant, isn't that correct?
A. That's right.
Q. And are you implying -- 228
MRS. LAVERTY: I am just going to -- he didn't catch who
you are representing. He is representing retired Sergeant
Leo Colton.
A. Yes, yes.
MR. COFFEY: I am obliged.
Are you saying that your unit was the only Customs unit
operating in the border area of south Armagh, or were there
any other Customs officers operating in that area?
A. There was only one investigation unit in Northern Ireland,
pertaining to Northern Ireland, and it was -- and all
Customs, you had the local Customs stations around the
border in Northern Ireland and you had also the preventive
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teams, that is the mobile cars that go out and stop
vehicles on land boundary offences, and things like that.
Q. Was your unit separate from those two other types of 229
Customs officers you have identified? Did your unit go out
on mobile patrol around the border areas?
A. No, we wouldn't be out patrolling the border in cars, or
anything like that, there. If there was something detected
on the border and it wasn't just a one-off thing and if it
needed further investigations, it would be forwarded to us
and we'd take the necessary action.
Q. Did you have regular ongoing contact with local Customs 230
officers, then?
A. We had -- yes, we had contact with them on not a regular
basis, but when the time, opportunity come about.
MRS. LAVERTY: We have lost the connection.
Q. MR. COFFEY: What do you mean by the opportunity -- 231
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Coffey is just pausing. He is now ready to
ask another question. Can you hear him now?
MRS. LAVERTY: Yes.
Q. MR. COFFEY: Witness M, what do you mean by opportunity 232
occurring as regards contact with local Customs officers?
A. Yes, if they required assistance, et cetera, they would be
in touch with us and say, well, it's more than a land
boundary - they were looking after land boundary offences
and minor offences - and if somebody was constantly doing
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something, we would have a look at it for further
investigations.
Q. You indicated in your statement that as far back as 1978, 233
when you were in the vicinity of property owned by
Mr. Murphy, properly known as 'Slab' Murphy, you were
assaulted, isn't that correct?
A. Yes, that's right.
Q. And at that time, had you a belief that Mr. Murphy was 234
engaged in smuggling activities?
A. We were -- we went down around the border on that
particular day and we went past Mr. Murphy's, and it was
then, on our return, that we were intercepted by men, by
three men, and asked what we were doing there.
Q. Yes, I understand that. But what I am asking, Witness M, 235
is this: Was it your belief and your unit's belief that as
far back as 1978, Mr. Murphy was engaged in smuggling
activities?
A. We had reason to believe that that particular crossing was
very active as regards smuggling.
Q. And, specifically, Mr. Murphy and his property was being 236
used for smuggling activities?
A. Well, Mr. Murphy's premises straddled the border and there
was a lot of activity in that end, and if there was any
inquiries in that, then we would be in liaison with our
counterparts in the Republic of Ireland. It was just a
normal border crossing, and other people used it at the
same time.
Q. Is it fair to say, Witness M, that the primary source of 237
your information would have come from the local Customs
officers, as to what was happening on the ground with
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regard to smuggling activities?
A. We would -- we would investigate various things that they
would pass on, and we also had our own intelligence, as
well, again, devoted to it.
Q. But the local Customs men were a primary source of 238
information and intelligence for you, isn't that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Yes. And it follows, I suggest, as a matter of common 239
sense, that, independent of your unit, local Customs men
would have had detailed information and knowledge both
about smuggling activities and individuals alleged to be
engaged in smuggling activities, isn't that correct?
A. It all depends on which area. There is different areas and
different patrols.
Q. Well, if we just confine it specifically to south Armagh 240
and the property of Mr. Murphy, for the moment.
A. Yes.
Q. He had a high reputation, isn't that correct? 241
A. Yes.
Q. And I am suggesting to you, also, would the local Customs 242
men be involved in any major operations involving both the
Customs and the Gardaí in the south?
A. No.
Q. Sorry? 243
A. I don't think so.
Q. They would have no direct involvement, they would not be 244
requested to lend physical assistance in any joint
operations between north and south, is that your evidence?
A. It would be -- an investigation, if it was -- an
investigation of any magnitude, it would be dealt with
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between the investigation itself and their colleagues in
the Republic of Ireland and the assistance of the PSNI in
Northern Ireland and the Garda in the Republic of Ireland,
I understand.
Q. So are you suggesting, then, that the local Customs men in 245
Northern Ireland, outside, just patrolling, had no other
functions?
A. The local Customs on the border were responsible for the
importation and exportation of grains to the land boundary
stations.
Q. Did they have any investigative role at all? 246
A. No.
Q. They had none whatsoever? 247
A. Apart from an inquiry role. If they stopped somebody and
seized something, they would make further inquiries on it
and clear it up themselves.
Q. Yes. I must suggest to you, Witness M, that local Customs 248
men would have a greater knowledge of the individuals
alleged to be engaged in smuggling in the south Armagh
area; wouldn't they know that, as a matter of common sense?
A. Yes.
Q. And are you saying that they would have no hand, act or 249
part in any investigation into sustained smuggling
activities going on in their area?
A. No, that would not be the case, because the local station,
Customs stations, would be checked out to see what legal
exports and imports were taking place at that particular
station.
Q. Would local Customs officers ever give evidence if a case 250
came to court?
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A. You left us there.
MRS. LAVERTY: Can you repeat that, please.
Q. MR. COFFEY: Would local Customs officers ever give 251
evidence in the event of any smuggling cases coming to
court?
A. I understand they did if it was a straightforward seizures,
and things of that, but if it was something of a
complicated nature, it would be passed over and then we
would take that on board or somebody would take it on board
and deal with it.
Q. I see. 252
A. They would be getting on with the day-to-day --
Q. On an average week, how often would you have been 253
personally in the south Armagh area, Witness M?
A. On an average week, it could be once, twice a week. It
would depend on the trend and the MCAs on the thing.
It wouldn't be -- if people were smuggling cattle and there
was no MCAs to be avoided or obtained, it wouldn't be
feasible. So if it was feasible that it was, say, £100 per
beast, then we would see, as a pattern, what is happening
as regards legal exports; cattle could be legally exported
between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, and then
that would have been the case, and, if that dropped off,
that would give you an indicator.
Q. Yes. Did you interact on such occasions when you visited 254
south Armagh, with local Customs officers?
MRS. LAVERTY: Could you repeat that, please?
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Q. MR. COFFEY: When you visited south Armagh in the course of 255
your duties, did you interact with the local Customs
officers on those occasions?
A. Not on every occasion. We would have called in and spoke
to them and asked them was there anything unusual, and that
would have been it. And if they needed any assistance with
anything, they would have been in touch with us.
Q. In the course of your career, did you work with Mr. Eamon 256
Collins, a self-confessed member of the IRA?
A. Did I...
MRS. LAVERTY: ... work with Eamon Collins?
A. No. He was one of the local Customs officers.
Q. MR. COFFEY: Yes. You are aware of him? 257
A. I heard of him, yes, definitely, yes.
Q. And it would appear from his own confessions and 258
admissions, he gave significant information to the IRA
concerning security aspects within Northern Ireland?
A. I couldn't comment on that because I don't know, really.
Q. What I am suggesting to you, Witness M, that a local 259
Customs officer such as Mr. Collins was able to give very
important and vital information to the IRA regarding
security issues?
A. Well, all security issues of that nature would be dealt
with, with the PSNI.
Q. And I lead on from that, Witness M, that, contrary to what 260
you might imply, local Customs officers had a detailed
knowledge of affairs within their area in south Armagh,
and, in particular, the activities, alleged smuggling
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activities of 'Slab' Murphy?
A. They could have, yes; they'd definitely be -- have a
knowledge of it, but our role was, more or less, for to
carry out an investigation if it was apparent that there
was a lot of activity being used at a particular border
crossing.
Q. And I am also suggesting, Witness M, that any proposed 261
anti-smuggling activity against Mr. Murphy, or his
associates, would have been within the knowledge of local
Customs men?
A. They probably knew of him, yes.
Q. And also, I am suggesting that -- 262
A. But it wouldn't -- nobody would have -- if there is an
operation going to take place, that would be all down to
the investigation people who were in charge of that
particular investigation.
MR. COFFEY: Yes. Thank you.
MS. O'SULLIVAN: I have no questions.
CHAIRMAN: Anybody else with questions?
MR. ROBINSON: Yes, I have a number of brief questions for
this witness.
CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Robinson, please.
THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. ROBINSON AS FOLLOWS:
Q. MR. ROBINSON: Witness M, my name is Mark Robinson, and I 263
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appear on behalf of the PSNI. I wonder if I can deal
firstly with your dealings with Chief Superintendent Breen.
What was your impression of Chief Superintendent Breen from
your workings with him?
A. I found that Chief Superintendent Breen -- the late Chief
Superintendent Harry Breen, to me, was a very concerned and
helpful person. And we would have to go into his station
if we were going to carry out an operation and ask for
assistance under the Customs and Excise Act, and we had no
problem; he always did his best to assist us.
Q. And in your view, what level of appreciation did Chief 264
Superintendent Breen have regarding the security around the
border area?
A. He was very conscious of security and smuggling, as you
know; he was advised to try and do something about it, and
he had a keen interest, he had a keen interest in the
workings of Customs, and that meant that we were able to
update him on the trend, the way things were happening in
relation to MCA, and things like that, and give him an
idea.
Q. And can you give the Chairman some element of context 265
regarding the risk along the border area, and not just for
Customs but for police, during this material time?
MRS. LAVERTY: Can you repeat the question, Mr. Robinson,
please.
Q. MR. ROBINSON: Can you give the Chairman a description or 266
your view on the level of risk around the border at that
time?
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A. Yes, the risk of food strapping, is that what you are
referring to, the smuggling of foods?
Q. Well, the risk of harm to both Customs officers and police 267
officers along the border at that time?
A. Yes, there was always a very high risk of coming in
conflict with the situations on the border. When you were
doing an operation, especially over a period of time, the
PSNI would have been there and they would have looked after
all the security matters pertaining to us and allowed us to
get on with our job.
Q. And if I can move, Witness M, to the level of smuggling 268
going on around this area. Relative to the rest of the
border, was this a higher level of activity or a lower or
medium rate of activity?
A. There was a lot less of smuggling went on in south Armagh
and different -- parts of south Armagh, and the smuggling
of cattle and pigs and grain were very prominent at that
particular time.
Q. And was your attention throughout Northern Ireland or was 269
it drawn to this particular region?
A. No, we would have an interest in all cross-border places
throughout Northern Ireland.
Q. And were you involved in the planning of operations with 270
Irish Customs along the south Armagh border?
A. I, and me, personally, was not involved; that would have
been a higher level, but we had -- any operation on the
Northern Ireland side of the border which incorporated
farms or sheds straddling the border, the Republic of
Ireland Customs would be involved and they would always
have, probably, Garda back-up.
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Q. And if I can just address that point of how the operations 271
were planned. How far in advance were operations planned?
A. I, personally, myself, was not involved in 'Operation
Amazing', as it's known, and other than it was ongoing for
a considerable length of time in preparation.
Q. And, generally speaking, if you were to search properties 272
that straddled the border and you required assistance from
Irish Customs, how far in advance would the planning for
such operations take place?
A. Well, this all depends on the type of operation. If it was
a small operation, it might be just very quick, but I am
led to believe if you were doing a joint operation, it
would be known for a considerable amount of time.
Q. And that would also involve coordination with An Garda 273
Siochana?
A. That's correct, I understand that.
Q. And can you give the Chairman any assistance in relation to 274
how often searches or operations were frustrated, for
example, if you had information of premises being used and
you then searched those premises and they were empty, can
you recall - I know it's a long time ago - can you recall
the incidents of frustration?
A. Well, there is many a time that you prepared and went and
there was nothing in the sheds, and things like that, but
it all depends on the type of operation. If it was cattle,
they usually were on the move fairly quickly on the
smuggling side.
Q. And can you recall any incidents when you attended searches 275
along the border and they were frustrated?
A. Yes, you would be inclined to be a bit frustrated if there
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was nothing there, but that was the situation, that you had
to live with this from time to time.
Q. Did it happen more often than not in the south Armagh 276
border region?
A. No, it wasn't very -- it wasn't all that prevalent because
there was only certain operations that were carried out and
it might have took a long time to plan them and they were
usually successful.
Q. Now, you mentioned, earlier, that you would -- before 277
performing an operation, you would perform checks as to
what was the position along the border. Who would you
check with?
A. You would visit -- well, if you were going down, you would
visit the border and you would have a look at the various
crossings and you would get indications, then, of the
traffic movements in that particular area. And if it was
being used a lot or not used, or whatever, that would be an
indicator.
Q. And with whom would you speak regarding the position along 278
the border; is that local Customs officers or was it your
Irish Customs counterparts?
A. Well, if we were working on -- if we were working on
something, we would be working with the Republic of Ireland
SIB colleagues down there, and we would be visiting on our
side of the border, and no doubt they would be doing the
same.
Q. And can you assist, Witness M, did you attend any meetings 279
with Irish Customs south of the border?
A. Any meetings?
Q. Did you travel across the border to meet Irish Customs? 280
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A. Oh, yes, oh, yes.
Q. And how often did that take place? 281
A. It depended. It could be, if there was inquiries to be
made with other things going on, apart from the actual
border, as to imports/exports, and documentation had to be
checked in Northern Ireland on behalf of the Republic of
Ireland, they would come up under the Convention in reach
of assistance and they would be accompanied to the premises
and we would carry out checks in Northern Ireland, or vice
versa.
Q. And where were the meetings held in the south? 282
A. Any meetings we had in the Republic of Ireland would be
with the Special Investigation Branch in Dublin.
Q. And did you take any safety precautions when you travelled 283
over across the border?
A. Just the normal personal considerations at the time, of
what was happening. We went down to Dublin and did the
work and came back up again.
Q. And did you travel at short notice? 284
A. Yes, if the matter came to hand fairly quickly or our
colleagues in the south wanted something done urgently, if
there was cattle seized, a typical example, if cattle was
seized in Northern Ireland and they had an indication that
the cattle were -- had been illegally imported into the
south, we would do a quick check for them and then it would
be fully up to the FA as to the authentication of their
tags, et cetera, with cattle.
Q. And finally, Witness M, you mentioned that you were not 285
actually involved in 'Operation Amazing'. I wonder,
without mentioning any names, have you been able to provide
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names to the Tribunal, the Tribunal team?
A. No, I actually was involved in something else completely.
And this particular operation, 'Operation Amazing', as you
referred to, it was solely investigated by Glasgow, with
the assistance of our team in Belfast.
Q. And is it the position, then, that you are unable to 286
provide the names of the Customs civil servants that
operated from Glasgow?
A. From Belfast?
Q. No, from Glasgow? 287
A. From Glasgow - I am sure they could be contacted.
MR. ROBINSON: I have no further questions.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anybody else with any questions?
Very good. I think that concludes the evidence. Thank you
very much, Witness M, thank you very much for coming to
give evidence. You have been very helpful to the Tribunal,
and we are very grateful to you. I think now,
Mrs. Laverty, you will be able to cut off the link between
Belfast and Dublin.
MRS. LAVERTY: Yes. Thank you, Chairperson.
CHAIRMAN: Yes. Good.
MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Chairman, could I just make one point
briefing arising from the evidence given by Witness M,
there.
CHAIRMAN: Yes.
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MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Sir, it's now apparent from the evidence
of Witness M and, indeed, the evidence of other witnesses
who have given evidence recently, that Mr. McBurney is
travelling the highways and byways of Northern Ireland
trying to recruit and coach witnesses for the purpose of
giving negative evidence about my client. I want to make
two or, possibly, three points in respect of that: First
of all, it's deeply regrettable that Mr. McBurney should
seek to be trying to get evidence and trying to mould
evidence, as is apparent from the evidence just given by
the witness, for the purpose of trying to frame my client,
and that is a strong term but I use it appropriately.
The objective of Mr. McBurney, as is the objective of
everyone here, should be to establish the truth. And
secondly, Mr. McBurney should be informed, because he is a
solicitor practicing outside the jurisdiction, that
although in this jurisdiction hearsay evidence and rumour
evidence is allowed to be given to Tribunals of Inquiry, a
Tribunal of Inquiry, as you will know, and submissions will
be made upon, cannot make findings in its report based on
rumour and hearsay. I think that is a point that should be
brought to Mr. McBurney's attention, and it may save him
some time in travelling around Northern Ireland.
Finally, we had been informed that Mr. Corrigan was to be
the last witness, and I presume we are not going to be
given more surprises as to other witnesses generated by
Mr. McBurney who come to give their evidence after
Mr. Corrigan finishes.
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It is a point I thought I should make, Chairman, it's a
relevant point from Mr. Corrigan's point of view, and it's
a matter I shall be addressing further in my submissions.
CHAIRMAN: Is there any observation to be made by
Mr. McBurney, if he wishes, about that?
MR. McBURNEY: I am obliged for the opportunity to speak on
the matter. These outrageous remarks by My Friend, I think
cannot go unchallenged. I have made no secret for a number
of years of the fact that I have tried my best to encourage
many witnesses from outside this jurisdiction to assist
this Tribunal in its endeavours. I have spoken to many who
have attended at the Tribunal. I have spoken to many who,
sadly, have not attended at this Tribunal, and I would
encourage them by this means, once again, to please do so.
I resent very much, and deeply, the allegation that I am
attempting to frame, as has been said, Detective Sergeant
Corrigan. I take that as a very serious remark. I ask for
it to be withdrawn or proved in some way. Because I do not
believe it is in any way sustainable.
I appreciate, Mr. Chairman, the opportunity to make these
remarks.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. I think that,
Mr. O'Callaghan, you have been rather harsh in the
observation that Mr. McBurney was trying to organise
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witnesses to frame your client. He is perfectly entitled,
he appears for the family of one of the victims of the
particular incident. He appears for the family, and he is
very keen that all the truth should come out, and
encouraging people to give evidence is one aspect of that,
and I think he is perfectly entitled to do it. You are
perfectly entitled in due course, no doubt you will in your
submissions, make points about whether evidence has been --
is not to be relied on, but I think it's going too far, I
don't think you have any grounds for saying that he is
coaching witnesses in their evidence.
MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Perhaps I should explain why I said that,
sir: This witness initially said that he came to give
evidence to this Tribunal because of the Tribunal. I asked
him who contacted him. He never mentioned Mr. McBurney.
When I mentioned Mr. McBurney's name, he accepted that in
fact he had spoken to Mr. McBurney. I then asked him if
Mr. McBurney had spoken about Mr. Corrigan, and he accepted
that Mr. McBurney had spoken to him and had raised the
issue of Mr. Corrigan. I then asked him, crucially, about
the statement he makes at the end of his statement, where
he said that Alan Mains made it clear that Harry Breen did
not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk. I was surprised
that this witness was able to recall that, since it wasn't
in his diary. He said, in his evidence, that this was
something that was discussed with Mr. McBurney.
Now, it's a serious allegation, but I don't stand down from
it. And Mr. McBurney has to recognise, that if he is going
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to try and get people to give evidence here, that he should
not go to them and start raising issues which are negative
to my client, with them. They should come here of their
own accord to give honest and truthful evidence, and he
doesn't need to prompt them to give evidence that is
negative to my client.
MR. McBURNEY: Perhaps, Mr. Chairman, if I could just have
a very brief right of response on that aspect.
CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MR. McBURNEY: I contacted Mr. [Redacted] having inquired
from the Tribunal, and I apologise, Mr. Chairman, I
shouldn't have mentioned the name.
CHAIRMAN: We will pass over that.
MR. McBURNEY: I contacted this witness because of, and you
will understand my dilemma in mentioning the name, because,
in fact, he is mentioned in a statement made by Mr. Mains
48 hours or thereabouts after the murder of Mr. Breen and
Mr. Buchanan. And I checked if he had thus far been
contacted, and I believed at that point that he had not. I
then made contact with him through contact details supplied
to me by an official in Northern Ireland, and I explained
the relevancy of his potential evidence by making reference
to that statement. Now, that statement contained within
it, having been made two days after the murder of the two
men, Sergeant Mains said in his statement that he had been
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tasked to contact Customs and Excise and then the gentleman
is named, and then it says "This I did." And I said to
him, "You are named in a statement by Detective Sergeant
Mains, made shortly after the murders." And in that
context, I explained to this gentleman how he could be
relevant. He then said, "The Tribunal is investigating
Garda," and I named not only Detective Sergeant Corrigan
but I named the other Sergeants who are also represented at
the Tribunal, and in fact, I named two or three other Garda
officers' names as well who have given evidence at the
Tribunal. And I said, "If you have any matters touching
upon the terms or reference of the Tribunal, will you
please speak to the Tribunal lawyers." And I then arranged
for two Tribunal lawyers to meet with this gentleman and,
sadly, the other gentleman who hasn't yet agreed to give
evidence. And it's as simple as that. And I discussed,
certainly, the content of Sergeant Mains' statement, which
was made shortly after the murders, and I make no apology,
Mr. Chairman, to Mr. O'Callaghan or anyone else, for so
doing. I appreciate the time.
CHAIRMAN: I think that that is perfectly legitimate, in my
view, and I think that it's perfectly correct that
Mr. McBurney should have done that, drawn the attention of
the witness to the facts, and I don't think that amounts to
coaching or telling him what to say in evidence. I don't
think it needs to be discussed any further, so I think we
will leave it at that.
MR. HAYES: It's very close to 1:00, but what remains for
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me to do today is only going to take certainly less than
ten minutes, and I wonder...
CHAIRMAN: Do you want to do that now?
MR. HAYES: I think if it were convenient. What I might
also say, and obviously Mr. McBurney is well able to speak
on his own behalf, as he has done, but I might just point
out that there were a number of witnesses who reside in
Northern Ireland who had no interest in speaking to us as
your lawyers until Mr. McBurney acted as an intermediary
and persuaded them they should do so, and some of them were
witnesses who gave evidence entirely unrelated to
Mr. Corrigan.
But what remains, Chairman, to be done is, there was, on
the 5th of April 1989, there was a meeting of the
Anglo-Irish Inter-Governmental Conference in Belfast. Part
of that, there was a discussion on security matters, and
there was a note made by an official from the Department of
Foreign Affairs, which records in some detail what was
discussed. This was, obviously, just very slightly more
than a fortnight after the murders of Breen and Buchanan,
and needless to say, a portion of that discussion concerned
those murders and have some relevance, therefore, to what
you are investigating.
If I might just, by putting it slightly in context, Gerry
Collins gave evidence to you on Day 32, which was the 13th
of September, and in the course of that he gave some
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description of the process of these meetings. And he was
examined in the first instance by Mrs. Laverty at page 39,
and at question 131 he was asked:-
"Question: And these must have been -- as a result of all
of these cross-border matters you would have had a lot of
interaction with your peers north of the border?
Answer: But certainly there was an established schedule of
procedures at the time which we would communicate, but more
particularly so after the establishment of the Anglo Irish
Agreement. After that agreement then, with the conference,
we had set procedures. We would meet regularly with the
Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and sometimes with
the Home Secretary in the UK.
Question: And who would be at those meetings?
Answer: And our side the Minister, the Secretary General
of the Department of Justice, the Garda Commissioner, the
Minister For Foreign Affairs; and on the northern side or
on the British side it was the Secretary of State for
Northern Ireland and the Chief Constable of the RUC and a
whole host of officials as well.
Question: And how often would you meet at these
inter-governmental meetings?
Answer: Normally every two to three months. We would have
meetings in Belfast, meetings in London, meetings in
Dublin. Sometimes in special circumstances we would have
more frequent meetings.
Question: You mentioned that the Chief Constable of the
RUC would be there from the North?" And he confirmed that.
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He was asked:-
"Question: And I take it that you would have a very good
relationship with Sir John Hermon, now deceased, is that
correct?
Answer: The relationship from our side with Sir Jack
Hermon and the Northern Ireland Police Force was primarily
through the Garda Commissioner. The system of operation
was that, firstly before meetings there would be a
political meeting just between Ministers on both sides.
The length of these meetings depended on the agenda that
would have been there at the particular time. The second
stage would be meetings dealing specifically with security
matters. At these meetings you would have the Secretary of
State Northern Ireland and his deputies, and the Chief
Constable; on our side the Garda Commissioner and the
Ministers from our side and the Director General of the
Department. And the final session would have been the full
team on both sides with the appropriate officials.
Question: Were these discussions when it came to security,
were they frank, were they thorough?
Answer: Very much so, believe me, very much so. No holds
barred. Very delicate issues nearly at all meetings."
And that was just slightly further amplified when
Mr. Durack cross-examined him. And he said:-
"Answer: If there was a suspicion held within the Ulster
Constabulary that a mole existed in a very sensitive
station for us, which Dundalk was, well, then if they
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believed that and if they held that view, then obviously
the matter would have been raised immediately and at the
highest level; it would have been raised at the
Commissioner level and at Ministerial level. As
Mrs. Laverty said earlier on, when we had the meetings
dealing with security, that would have been a big issue for
that sort of meeting. As I said, these meetings were no
holds barred, you know; the truth had to be dealt with no
matter how nasty at times.
Question: But no such issue was ever raised?
Answer: Never, ever."
Then on the -- on this meeting, and the note is -- first of
all, it was -- it's marked "Secret", and the permission was
sought from the Department of Justice to use this in open
session. That was readily granted, Chairman.
It's headed: "Meeting of the Anglo-Irish
Inter-Governmental Conference, Belfast, 5th April 1989."
And it's entitled: "A note of discussion on cross-border
security cooperation."
It notes that the restricted session on cross-border
security cooperation commenced at approximately 12:25 p.m.,
immediately after the first stage of the plenary session,
and it finished about 1:50 p.m.. It was attended on the
Irish side by the Tanaiste and the Minister for Foreign
Affairs, the late Mr. Lenihan; the Minister for Justice
Mr. Collins; the Secretary General of the Department of
Justice; the Garda Commissioner Mr. Crowley, and an
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official from the Department of Foreign Affairs who was in
the secretariat in Maryfield.
On the British side were Secretary of State, Mr. King; the
Minister of State, Mr. Ian Stewart; the Chief Constable,
Sir John Hermon; the Deputy Secretary of the Northern
Ireland Office and an NIO official from the secretariat in
Maryfield.
Just, I suppose, by way of a health warning it notes:
"The following note which is in the form of direct speech
does not purport to be a verbatim record and nor is it
necessarily exhaustive of all the exchanges."
Initially, at the beginning of the meeting, the Chief
Constable and the Commissioner were engaged elsewhere and
they missed the first short period of the meeting. And I
think they then joined the meeting shortly into it, and it
is noted, Chairman, after they had joined, Mr. Collins is
noted as having said:-
"The murder of Chief Superintendent Breen and
Superintendent Buchanan shocked us all. Not just because
of the human tragedy involved, but also because of the
propaganda value such an incident gives to the IRA. And I
would like to ask the Chief Constable to convey our
sympathies to the families of the two men and also to their
colleagues in the RUC. We have all been deeply shocked by
the incident. I think now that one of the objectives is to
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ensure that every step that we can take to prevent a
recurrence, is taken. I am aware that at the weekend
Deputy Commissioner Culligan will be meeting his opposite
number in the RUC to work out ways and means of improving
security in these matters. I think that is very
necessary."
"MR. KING: I am very grateful for what you have said. I
know the Chief Constable also appreciates your remarks.
What was so shocking about this was that it was a blatant
and very obvious attack on our cooperation, our working
together. It was a deliberate attack on our two countries,
and in the face of that I think the only response is we can
cannot possibly stand back from it.
"MR. COLLINS: No, I absolutely agree. The meetings must
go on. Although, I think we have to be more careful about
how we do things, but that is a matter that no doubt will
be looked at by the Assistant Chief Constable and
Mr. Culligan next weekend.
"CHIEF CONSTABLE: We have already taken certain steps, but
until we complete our full analysis of the incident we will
not be able to assess the full implications for all our
meetings, which are occurring at three different levels:
You have the Uniform Branch of the police, the CID and the
Special Branch.
"MR. KING: I think the killings brought out very clearly
the determination of the IRA to smash this kind of
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cooperation. Another aspect is the sectarian element
involved in the story that was put out afterwards about a
Garda mole. I think this was dealt with very strongly by
the Chief Constable immediately after the thing was first
publicised.
"TANAISTE: Yes, and I think that was very important
indeed.
"MR. KING: I made it clear myself that there was
absolutely no justification for such a story, but I think
it is very typical of the forces that [sic] our work in all
of these matters. Their first inclination is to seek out
these sort of things and try and work them into the
headlines.
"MR. COLLINS: I think that, unfortunately, we can all get
into a certain pattern of action and complacency can set
in. I have asked the Commissioner to see whether there was
scope whereby the IRA could have monitored movements, and
having pressed on him the need to avoid any pattern of
activity.
"CHIEF CONSTABLE: I think that with one of the men who was
killed, there was a certain faith dimension involved
because of his religious persuasion.
"MR. KING: The media stories in the immediate aftermath
also had a terrible flavour of trying to categorise the
thing in terms of which side of the border the killers were
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from.
"MR. COLLINS: I thought that it was acknowledged that this
was something carried out by the Crossmaglen Active Service
Unit of the IRA. One of the things I think we should look
at is that there was a delay of about 25 minutes before the
Gardaí were notified. Perhaps if they had been told
sooner, it might have been possible to establish roadblocks
to prevent the getaway, but this is something we can look
at. I think it was reported that the shooting took place
somewhere between 3:25 and 3:50. But it was at least 4:15
before the Gardaí at Dromad and Dundalk were told. Now, I
am not making any particular point of that, but I think
it's a factor that we might focus on."
The Chief Constable, and he is noted as to be reading from
what appeared to be an internal police report on the
incident, said: "It says here that it was 4:04 when an
emergency 999 call was made to Rathcarr Police Station, and
at 4:22 the ambulance reported that two men were shot dead.
I will certainly take up the point you make and I will let
the Commissioner know when I have checked it out.
"MR. COLLINS: In my view, we have an example of the best
cooperation that has ever occurred between the two forces
in trying to deal with the after-effects of these horrific
killings. Now, I'd like to have that fact formally
recorded, and to thank the Garda Commissioner and the Chief
Constable for the way in which they have approached this.
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"CHIEF CONSTABLE: As far as I am concerned, cooperation
could not be better between the two forces, and the Garda
put every facility at our disposal in relation to this
particular event. I have nothing but the highest
admiration and appreciation for them for what they have
done.
"MR. COLLINS: I am very grateful to the Chief Constable
for that. I think it is right that the meetings should go
on. We must have this kind of cooperation, for all the
reasons that bring us together around this table.
"MR. KING: These killings reinforce the need for that kind
of cooperation and for these meetings.
"MR. COLLINS: The Commissioner and I intend to get
together sometime next week after the meeting next Saturday
between the two Deputies, and the Commissioner will be
briefing me fully on the outcome of that. My intention is
to ensure that everything possible is being done to provide
the maximum protection for those travelling northwards and
southwards, as the case may be. But there are one or two
related matters arising out of that event; one is the
question of the documentation that the IRA may have got.
Could the Chief Constable tell us anything about that? How
serious was it?
"CHIEF CONSTABLE: I think we can be reassured that there
was no important documentation in their possession. We are
satisfied that all the IRA got was the diaries of the two
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men. We have been trying to piece together what might have
been in the diaries, and one of the things we did was to
look at both men's diaries for last year. It has given us
a good idea of what was involved. The only thing in those
diaries were lists of telephone numbers of contacts, mainly
in Northern Ireland. I think this is especially so in the
case of Chief Superintendent Breen. I think we have a fair
idea of what was in his diary, we are checking this out
with people in the North, some of the contacts involved,
but they were mainly in the army and police.
"MR. COLLINS: I think I am right in saying that the main
purpose of that tragic meeting was in fact the bother that
we have been having with the rail link that is a serious
problem there. I think one of the unfortunate things about
that meeting, were that if the south Armagh area were a
safer area for the police, these men might not have gone by
the Jonesboro route. Perhaps the Chief Constable and the
Commissioner could give us a general assessment of the
whole Killeen area in policing terms. There is also the
question of the rail link and what we can do ourselves to
ensure it is kept open. Perhaps one of the lessons is to
encourage greater use of the main roads.
"COMMISSIONER: We have been looking at our policing effort
in this whole area in relation to the railway line and the
fact that we patrol right up to the border, Kilnasaggart,
where we link up with the RUC. So we are already doing as
much as we can in policing terms on our side."
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That then, Chairman, is the discussion insofar as it
related to these murders. The conversation or the meeting
went on and is recorded for a further dozen or so, another
17 pages, relating to other security matters that don't
concern you. But what I suppose I can say is, that at
no -- other than the brief reference to the issue of a
mole, that I have read out, there is no further discussion
of that issue at the meeting on the 5th of April.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
MR. HAYES: I think that then concludes today, and the next
sitting is scheduled, as I understand it, for next Tuesday.
CHAIRMAN: Yes. And I don't think any other witness is
likely to appear before next Tuesday, Mr. O'Callaghan. So,
that is it, then, until Tuesday next at 11 o'clock. Thank
you very much.
THE TRIBUNAL THEN ADJOURNED TO TUESDAY, 19TH OF JUNE, 2012,
AT 11 A.M..
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''12 [1] - 40:4'80s [1] - 10:14'88 [3] - 23:21, 35:27,
39:27'Operation [14] - 10:1,
10:2, 10:4, 20:22, 21:9, 21:19, 22:4, 30:6, 31:2, 34:13, 39:21, 57:3, 59:29, 60:3
'Owen [1] - 42:17'Slab' [7] - 11:13, 12:20,
18:28, 19:15, 21:7, 49:5, 54:1
00001 [1] - 13:2
11 [2] - 14:1, 14:610th [1] - 35:2711 [3] - 1:1, 76:17, 76:211200 [1] - 13:312:25 [1] - 69:2412th [1] - 23:21131 [1] - 67:313th [1] - 66:2914K [1] - 12:2914TH [1] - 1:114th [2] - 18:20, 19:2315th [1] - 18:2116th [2] - 19:13, 19:2017 [1] - 76:41974 [2] - 2:8, 2:121978 [3] - 8:26, 49:3,
49:161985 [1] - 32:251988 [14] - 2:30, 10:20,
23:8, 23:15, 23:22, 24:11, 32:4, 34:1, 35:9, 35:14, 36:19, 44:20, 45:13, 46:24
1989 [13] - 11:18, 13:4, 18:30, 21:22, 25:20, 25:22, 31:4, 42:25, 42:27, 42:30, 43:29, 66:17, 69:19
19:40 [1] - 24:2319TH [1] - 76:201:00 [1] - 65:301:50 [1] - 69:261st [3] - 8:26, 13:3, 14:2
22 [1] - 35:720 [1] - 23:122012 [3] - 1:1, 40:20,
76:2020th [8] - 20:3, 28:30,
29:3, 29:10, 30:19, 30:22, 30:25
21st [11] - 9:17, 10:28, 10:30, 23:21, 24:11, 27:15, 28:18, 28:19, 36:19, 39:26, 44:20
23rd [8] - 20:20, 21:27, 21:30, 22:1, 22:6, 22:15, 22:17, 22:21
24 [6] - 38:13, 39:19, 40:6, 41:26, 42:12, 43:24
24th [10] - 18:30, 19:9, 40:4, 40:20, 40:23, 41:4, 41:23, 42:18, 42:19
25 [1] - 73:627 [1] - 14:2327th [2] - 13:3, 21:3028 [1] - 12:2728th [6] - 25:17, 42:24,
42:26, 42:27, 43:3, 43:429th [4] - 43:1, 43:2, 43:5,
43:282nd [1] - 14:5
332 [1] - 66:2939 [7] - 34:6, 35:14, 43:8,
43:10, 43:19, 43:20, 67:2
3:25 [1] - 73:113:50 [1] - 73:113rd [1] - 19:10
448 [1] - 64:224:04 [1] - 73:184:15 [1] - 73:114:22 [1] - 73:20
556 [1] - 19:158 [1] - 12:65th [12] - 14:7, 34:1, 34:3,
35:9, 35:13, 35:26, 40:4, 40:23, 41:4, 66:17, 69:19, 76:8
660-hour [1] - 12:286th [4] - 11:18, 14:21,
29:8, 29:13
77th [5] - 11:29, 12:24,
18:20, 18:22, 19:13
88th [1] - 12:25
9999 [1] - 73:19
AA.M [1] - 1:1A.M. [1] - 76:21able [11] - 6:20, 8:2,
16:17, 38:13, 53:22, 55:17, 59:30, 60:19, 63:25, 66:7, 71:24
absolutely [4] - 6:4, 36:20, 71:16, 72:11
ACC [4] - 19:2, 19:8, 19:15, 19:17
accepted [2] - 63:17, 63:19
accompanied [2] - 19:26, 59:8
accord [1] - 64:4according [1] - 20:4account [1] - 4:12achieve [4] - 15:25,
16:29, 17:2, 17:28acknowledged [1] - 73:3act [1] - 51:22Act [1] - 55:9acted [1] - 66:11acting [2] - 28:4, 28:8action [3] - 14:10, 48:10,
72:18active [1] - 49:19Active [1] - 73:4actively [1] - 5:5activities [10] - 30:13,
49:9, 49:17, 49:21, 50:1, 50:11, 50:12, 51:24, 53:30, 54:1
activity [9] - 9:25, 9:29, 30:16, 49:23, 54:5, 54:8, 56:13, 56:14, 72:22
actual [4] - 29:1, 30:4, 30:9, 59:4
add [1] - 13:6additional [1] - 14:14address [1] - 57:1addressed [1] - 12:14addresses [1] - 14:6addressing [1] - 62:4ADJOURNED [1] - 76:20admiration [1] - 74:5admissions [1] - 53:18advance [4] - 7:4, 9:27,
57:2, 57:8advice [1] - 13:26advised [4] - 16:3, 20:20,
42:22, 55:15advising [1] - 33:19affairs [1] - 53:29Affairs [4] - 66:21, 67:18,
69:28, 70:1afraid [1] - 21:29after-effects [1] - 73:26aftermath [1] - 72:28afternoon [1] - 35:2afterwards [2] - 9:27,
72:2agencies [1] - 6:27agenda [1] - 68:11agent [1] - 22:28agitation [1] - 11:23ago [5] - 38:1, 41:26,
42:12, 43:24, 57:21agree [3] - 35:23, 36:7,
71:16agreeable [2] - 36:16,
41:12agreed [1] - 65:15Agreement [1] - 67:11agreement [1] - 67:11Agriculture [2] - 4:12,
6:13ahead [1] - 26:18Alan [12] - 25:24, 25:29,
26:5, 26:8, 43:8, 43:24, 43:29, 44:4, 44:8, 44:21, 44:26, 63:23
all-round [1] - 17:26allay [1] - 18:13allegation [2] - 62:19,
63:29allegations [2] - 22:26alleged [10] - 12:28, 13:7,
13:11, 22:5, 23:14, 33:9, 37:7, 50:11, 51:19, 53:30
allegedly [4] - 23:4, 23:25, 24:6, 44:21
allocated [2] - 31:8, 31:20allowed [4] - 7:27, 15:28,
56:9, 61:19amazing [1] - 10:11Amazing' [14] - 10:1,
10:2, 10:4, 20:22, 21:10, 21:19, 22:4, 30:7, 31:2, 34:13, 39:21, 57:4, 59:29, 60:3
ambulance [1] - 73:20amount [2] - 15:22, 57:13amounts [3] - 3:1, 17:21,
65:25amplified [1] - 68:25analysis [1] - 71:23and.. [1] - 7:4ands [1] - 13:7Anglo [3] - 66:18, 67:10,
69:18Anglo-Irish [2] - 66:18,
69:18animal [5] - 3:10, 3:18,
4:1, 4:10animals [1] - 3:21annoyance [1] - 11:23answer [5] - 26:24, 31:29,
39:23, 39:25, 45:29Answer [7] - 67:8, 67:16,
67:24, 68:6, 68:22, 68:28, 69:11
answered [1] - 13:15anti [2] - 2:25, 54:8anti-smuggling [2] -
2:25, 54:8anticipation [1] - 28:26anything" [1] - 25:13anyway [3] - 16:14, 17:4,
43:5apart [2] - 51:14, 59:4apologise [1] - 64:14apology [1] - 65:18apparent [3] - 54:4, 61:2,
61:11appear [6] - 27:5, 35:4,
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
1
47:10, 53:17, 55:1, 76:16
appeared [1] - 73:17applicable [2] - 21:5,
21:10apply [3] - 8:4, 9:5, 16:7appointment [4] - 27:18,
27:20, 28:3, 28:4appreciate [2] - 62:25,
65:20appreciates [1] - 71:9appreciation [2] - 55:11,
74:5apprise [1] - 16:9apprised [1] - 20:9approach [1] - 40:7approached [2] - 40:14,
73:29approaching [1] - 14:30appropriate [1] - 68:19appropriately [1] - 61:13April [3] - 66:17, 69:19,
76:8area [19] - 9:25, 9:30,
15:10, 20:1, 47:25, 47:26, 50:13, 51:20, 51:24, 52:16, 53:29, 55:13, 55:22, 56:12, 58:16, 75:16, 75:17, 75:20, 75:26
areas [3] - 11:28, 48:5, 50:13
arising [3] - 15:15, 60:27, 74:23
Armagh [30] - 8:8, 9:13, 10:21, 10:28, 11:5, 11:28, 12:21, 19:15, 19:16, 27:25, 27:27, 27:30, 34:11, 35:8, 43:7, 43:19, 44:1, 47:25, 50:15, 51:19, 52:16, 52:28, 53:2, 53:29, 56:15, 56:16, 56:24, 58:3, 75:16
armed [1] - 16:13arms [1] - 16:4army [3] - 11:20, 19:18,
75:10arranged [7] - 27:15,
27:24, 28:29, 30:29, 32:4, 32:7, 65:13
arrangements [1] - 9:3arranging [1] - 28:19arrest [2] - 22:13, 31:7arrested [6] - 22:6, 22:7,
31:3, 31:6, 31:16, 31:27arrests [1] - 21:21AS [6] - 1:2, 2:2, 27:2,
34:29, 47:8, 54:28aspect [3] - 63:5, 64:9,
72:1aspects [1] - 53:19assassinate [1] - 16:24assaulted [2] - 8:20, 49:6assess [2] - 18:3, 71:24assessment [1] - 75:19assist [5] - 40:7, 40:26,
55:10, 58:27, 62:13
![Page 81: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the Tribunaljustice.ie/en/JELR/2012-06-14_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day_103.pdf/... · thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per](https://reader031.vdocument.in/reader031/viewer/2022022802/5c789ac109d3f294278bb214/html5/thumbnails/81.jpg)
assistance [10] - 7:4, 48:27, 50:27, 51:2, 53:7, 55:9, 57:7, 57:17, 59:8, 60:5
Assistant [1] - 71:19assisted [1] - 10:6assisting [1] - 40:15associates [1] - 54:9assume [1] - 30:6assuming [1] - 28:30AT [2] - 1:1, 76:21attack [2] - 71:11, 71:12attempting [1] - 62:20attempts [1] - 13:20attend [2] - 20:8, 58:27attendance [1] - 23:12attended [9] - 11:18,
19:16, 19:17, 25:23, 32:9, 57:28, 62:15, 62:16, 69:26
attention [7] - 15:30, 25:4, 25:6, 44:25, 56:19, 61:23, 65:24
authentication [1] - 59:26authorities [4] - 16:8,
16:22, 29:14, 30:15available [3] - 28:6, 41:1,
41:11average [2] - 52:15, 52:17avoid [1] - 72:21avoided [3] - 23:16,
33:21, 52:20aware [19] - 9:26, 11:15,
13:18, 22:20, 22:25, 29:11, 29:24, 30:17, 31:6, 32:21, 32:24, 32:29, 32:30, 33:14, 33:15, 33:17, 40:17, 53:15, 71:2
Bback-up [3] - 6:27, 9:4,
56:30backwards [1] - 7:23bald [1] - 13:4Ballybinaby [2] - 8:17,
8:18barred [2] - 68:23, 69:8Barry [12] - 36:24, 37:3,
37:4, 37:15, 37:17, 37:30, 38:7, 38:24, 38:27, 39:3, 41:27, 44:19
based [2] - 27:30, 61:21basis [3] - 7:16, 48:14bearing [1] - 4:21beast [3] - 3:9, 5:19,
52:22became [3] - 7:1, 9:26,
17:18become [1] - 4:3BEEN [1] - 2:1beginning [1] - 70:16behalf [5] - 28:4, 28:8,
55:1, 59:6, 66:8behind [1] - 14:9Belfast [14] - 1:5, 2:12,
2:25, 12:15, 21:17, 24:23, 28:1, 28:2, 60:5, 60:9, 60:20, 66:18, 67:25, 69:19
belief [3] - 49:8, 49:15Bessbrook [1] - 14:2best [3] - 55:10, 62:12,
73:24better [2] - 4:10, 74:2between [15] - 2:10, 7:8,
13:2, 17:15, 22:27, 39:26, 50:28, 51:1, 52:24, 60:19, 68:10, 73:11, 73:25, 74:2, 74:18
beyond [1] - 14:11big [9] - 3:2, 4:26, 6:2,
6:3, 6:6, 15:26, 17:18, 69:6
bit [2] - 3:18, 57:30blank [1] - 12:19blatant [1] - 71:10board [2] - 52:11Bob [4] - 9:6, 9:12, 15:12,
25:17bombing [1] - 32:24book [1] - 4:11books [1] - 3:23border [57] - 3:10, 3:12,
3:13, 4:4, 4:15, 5:6, 5:9, 7:3, 7:14, 7:20, 7:21, 7:29, 8:1, 8:2, 8:29, 15:22, 22:9, 26:21, 30:17, 45:15, 47:25, 47:30, 48:5, 48:6, 48:8, 49:10, 49:22, 49:26, 51:8, 54:5, 55:13, 55:22, 55:29, 56:4, 56:6, 56:13, 56:21, 56:24, 56:27, 56:28, 57:7, 57:29, 58:4, 58:11, 58:14, 58:20, 58:25, 58:28, 58:30, 59:5, 59:15, 67:6, 67:7, 69:20, 69:23, 72:30, 75:27
boss [5] - 15:18, 24:22, 33:11, 33:15, 33:17
bosses [1] - 2:20bother [1] - 75:13boundary [4] - 48:2,
48:29, 51:9Branch [11] - 7:11, 7:12,
10:24, 18:16, 20:4, 20:19, 33:23, 46:5, 59:13, 71:26, 71:27
break [1] - 39:24Breen [59] - 9:6, 9:8, 9:13,
9:17, 9:23, 11:17, 11:18, 14:24, 15:12, 19:5, 19:10, 19:11, 19:19, 25:17, 26:5, 26:10, 27:11, 27:15, 27:25, 28:5, 28:24, 29:3, 29:5, 29:6, 29:9, 30:20, 30:24, 30:28, 33:30, 34:6, 34:21, 35:14, 35:17, 35:27,
36:3, 36:9, 43:9, 43:11, 43:17, 43:19, 43:25, 43:29, 43:30, 44:2, 44:4, 44:9, 44:22, 55:2, 55:3, 55:5, 55:6, 55:12, 63:23, 64:22, 66:23, 70:23, 75:7
Breen's [1] - 25:26brief [3] - 54:23, 64:9,
76:6briefed [1] - 15:30briefing [3] - 19:16,
60:27, 74:19briefly [1] - 43:8bring [3] - 4:30, 24:14,
74:11bringing [3] - 4:19, 5:3,
31:26British [5] - 2:15, 2:17,
47:12, 67:19, 70:4brought [8] - 3:12, 5:24,
11:23, 46:9, 46:11, 46:13, 61:23, 71:29
Buchanan [10] - 9:7, 9:12, 11:16, 15:12, 19:26, 25:17, 27:10, 64:23, 66:23, 70:24
Buchanan's [1] - 19:14bucket [1] - 3:29build [2] - 11:10, 11:11build-up [2] - 11:10,
11:11building [4] - 11:12,
23:30, 31:23, 36:26burst [1] - 8:24business [3] - 4:26, 6:26,
13:19buy [1] - 6:20BY [5] - 2:1, 27:1, 34:29,
47:8, 54:28byways [1] - 61:5
CC&E [1] - 19:2camouflaged [1] - 3:25cancelled [1] - 11:8cannot [3] - 61:21, 62:11,
71:14canteen [1] - 32:28canvassed [1] - 15:13car [9] - 4:29, 5:30, 6:17,
6:19, 6:24, 8:3, 8:14, 19:29
career [3] - 2:5, 8:28, 53:9careful [3] - 39:10, 46:20,
71:17carried [3] - 10:23, 58:6,
73:4carry [5] - 7:27, 16:18,
54:4, 55:8, 59:9carrying [2] - 16:4, 16:24cars [4] - 6:16, 6:20, 48:1,
48:6case [6] - 3:11, 51:25,
51:29, 52:25, 74:22, 75:7
cases [2] - 5:8, 52:6
Castle [1] - 11:19catch [1] - 47:18categorise [1] - 72:29cattle [20] - 3:7, 3:12,
3:13, 4:3, 4:5, 4:9, 5:3, 5:19, 5:22, 5:28, 6:7, 52:19, 52:23, 56:17, 57:25, 59:22, 59:24, 59:27
cell [1] - 14:2certain [8] - 10:7, 15:22,
37:7, 37:9, 58:6, 71:22, 72:18, 72:25
certainly [10] - 14:14, 15:24, 17:6, 19:29, 21:19, 21:28, 65:17, 66:1, 67:8, 73:21
cetera [6] - 2:25, 15:4, 21:9, 45:17, 48:27, 59:27
Chairman [27] - 1:4, 1:11, 1:13, 2:6, 8:12, 21:26, 24:8, 24:10, 26:29, 29:6, 29:12, 33:25, 34:2, 47:6, 55:21, 55:28, 57:17, 60:26, 62:2, 62:25, 64:8, 64:14, 65:19, 66:16, 69:16, 70:20, 76:1
CHAIRMAN [20] - 1:9, 1:17, 1:22, 26:27, 34:27, 47:4, 48:20, 54:21, 54:26, 60:14, 60:24, 60:30, 62:6, 62:28, 64:11, 64:17, 65:22, 66:4, 76:10, 76:15
Chairperson [1] - 60:22change [1] - 2:30changed [2] - 5:25, 17:19chap [1] - 31:8charge [6] - 6:23, 9:13,
31:16, 31:18, 32:2, 54:15
charged [3] - 5:20, 31:28, 32:2
charges [1] - 31:26chat [1] - 20:7check [2] - 58:12, 59:25checked [8] - 38:17,
42:19, 42:20, 45:16, 51:26, 59:6, 64:23, 73:22
checking [2] - 41:7, 75:8checks [2] - 58:10, 59:9Chief [32] - 11:16, 12:1,
14:17, 15:11, 19:3, 19:18, 27:10, 27:15, 30:11, 34:5, 34:21, 55:2, 55:3, 55:5, 55:11, 67:20, 67:28, 68:15, 70:5, 70:16, 70:23, 70:27, 71:9, 71:19, 72:4, 73:16, 73:28, 74:8, 74:25, 75:7, 75:18
CHIEF [4] - 71:22, 72:24, 74:1, 74:28
Christmas [1] - 23:11
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
2
CID [6] - 34:6, 35:15, 35:18, 35:28, 36:4, 71:26
cipher [2] - 1:17, 14:23circumstances [1] -
67:26civil [6] - 2:15, 2:17, 2:18,
47:13, 60:7clear [6] - 26:9, 43:11,
43:16, 51:16, 63:23, 72:10
clearly [2] - 44:14, 71:29clicked [1] - 42:3client [5] - 61:7, 61:12,
63:1, 64:3, 64:6close [3] - 3:30, 7:5,
65:30closely [1] - 7:13closer [2] - 24:13, 24:14coach [1] - 61:6coaching [2] - 63:11,
65:26Coffey [1] - 48:20COFFEY [10] - 47:6, 47:8,
47:10, 47:23, 48:18, 48:25, 52:5, 53:2, 53:15, 54:17
collated [1] - 14:1colleague [10] - 18:11,
20:8, 20:21, 23:3, 23:12, 23:24, 23:29, 32:18, 33:12, 33:20
colleague's [1] - 22:17colleagues [8] - 9:24,
17:27, 20:29, 29:8, 51:1, 58:24, 59:21, 70:29
collecting [1] - 17:27collection [1] - 2:23COLLINS [7] - 71:16,
72:17, 73:3, 73:24, 74:8, 74:16, 75:12
Collins [6] - 53:10, 53:13, 53:22, 66:29, 69:29, 70:20
colluded [1] - 27:9collusion [1] - 22:26Colonel [1] - 11:21coloured [1] - 13:23Colton [2] - 47:11, 47:20coming [7] - 4:23, 5:28,
8:19, 14:25, 52:6, 56:5, 60:16
command [1] - 12:2Commander [1] - 19:4commence [1] - 1:4commenced [1] - 69:24comment [7] - 33:4, 33:6,
44:23, 44:24, 44:27, 44:29, 53:20
comments [1] - 46:23COMMISSIONER [1] -
75:25Commissioner [13] -
67:17, 68:8, 68:16, 69:4, 69:30, 70:17, 71:3, 72:19, 73:22, 73:28, 74:16, 74:18,
![Page 82: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the Tribunaljustice.ie/en/JELR/2012-06-14_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day_103.pdf/... · thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per](https://reader031.vdocument.in/reader031/viewer/2022022802/5c789ac109d3f294278bb214/html5/thumbnails/82.jpg)
75:19common [2] - 50:8, 51:20commonly [1] - 8:18communicate [1] - 67:9communication [1] -
40:25compensation [3] - 3:1,
17:21, 17:22complacency [1] - 72:18complete [1] - 71:23completely [2] - 13:2,
60:2complicated [1] - 52:10computer [1] - 14:4concentration [1] - 42:8concern [3] - 14:20, 15:9,
76:5concerned [12] - 21:8,
25:15, 30:16, 31:8, 32:22, 35:26, 37:12, 37:14, 47:1, 55:6, 66:24, 74:1
concerning [1] - 53:19concerns [3] - 16:1,
18:13, 20:15concerted [1] - 13:20concludes [2] - 60:15,
76:12conduct [1] - 19:17conducting [1] - 13:18Conference [2] - 66:18,
69:19conference [1] - 67:11confessed [1] - 53:10confessions [1] - 53:17confine [1] - 50:15confined [1] - 4:5confirm [3] - 13:6, 31:12,
31:15confirmation [1] - 36:20confirmed [1] - 67:29conflict [1] - 56:6connection [2] - 34:13,
48:16connections [1] - 7:5Connolly [25] - 23:20,
36:24, 37:3, 37:4, 37:15, 37:17, 37:27, 37:30, 38:7, 38:9, 38:18, 38:19, 38:21, 38:24, 38:27, 39:1, 39:3, 39:8, 41:27, 42:21, 43:7, 44:19, 44:24, 45:26, 46:29
conscious [1] - 55:14consensus [1] - 29:16considerable [4] - 14:13,
17:1, 57:5, 57:13considerations [1] -
59:16considered [2] - 15:29,
16:12consist [1] - 12:7CONSTABLE [4] - 71:22,
72:24, 74:1, 74:28Constable [17] - 12:1,
19:3, 30:12, 67:20, 67:28, 68:16, 70:5,
70:17, 70:27, 71:9, 71:19, 72:4, 73:16, 73:29, 74:8, 74:25, 75:18
Constable's [1] - 14:17Constabulary [1] - 68:29constantly [1] - 48:30contact [22] - 9:12, 23:16,
23:30, 28:6, 31:24, 33:21, 37:25, 40:25, 40:29, 41:3, 41:6, 41:7, 41:8, 44:15, 46:21, 48:11, 48:13, 48:26, 64:25, 65:1
contacted [5] - 60:11, 63:16, 64:13, 64:19, 64:24
contacts [2] - 75:5, 75:9contained [1] - 64:28content [2] - 13:6, 65:17context [7] - 13:17, 24:2,
25:5, 46:26, 55:21, 65:5, 66:28
continued [1] - 21:19contrary [1] - 53:27control [1] - 4:10convenient [1] - 66:6Convention [1] - 59:7conversation [13] -
25:14, 26:10, 36:13, 36:17, 36:29, 37:13, 38:11, 41:2, 41:13, 42:22, 43:21, 47:1, 76:2
conversed [1] - 34:5Conversed [1] - 34:5convey [1] - 70:27cooperation [10] - 10:23,
14:14, 69:21, 69:24, 71:11, 72:1, 73:25, 74:1, 74:10, 74:14
coordination [1] - 57:14copied [1] - 14:17copies [2] - 21:1, 21:4copy [1] - 12:5correct [52] - 2:5, 2:6, 2:9,
2:12, 2:17, 2:28, 2:29, 3:3, 3:4, 5:4, 5:7, 6:28, 8:11, 9:19, 10:11, 10:13, 10:15, 10:19, 10:20, 10:22, 10:25, 10:29, 11:6, 11:7, 11:14, 17:26, 20:6, 21:23, 22:15, 22:30, 25:25, 27:16, 27:17, 36:2, 36:6, 36:22, 36:23, 42:18, 42:25, 42:27, 42:28, 45:27, 46:4, 47:14, 49:6, 50:6, 50:7, 50:12, 50:18, 57:16, 65:23, 68:5
Corrigan [40] - 22:30, 23:4, 23:7, 23:13, 23:26, 32:16, 32:20, 33:21, 35:4, 36:21, 36:25, 36:28, 37:25, 37:26, 37:27, 38:4, 38:5, 38:8, 39:9, 41:17, 41:20, 42:6, 42:9,
42:11, 42:15, 44:20, 45:13, 45:25, 45:30, 46:8, 46:23, 46:25, 46:27, 61:26, 61:30, 62:21, 63:19, 63:21, 65:7, 66:14
Corrigan' [1] - 42:18Corrigan's [5] - 24:24,
24:25, 41:26, 41:29, 62:3
Corry [3] - 23:2, 32:25, 45:19
cost [1] - 4:28counterparts [2] - 49:25,
58:21countries [1] - 71:12country [1] - 18:25County [1] - 19:22course [11] - 6:29, 8:10,
9:9, 17:20, 19:5, 20:12, 25:10, 53:2, 53:9, 63:7, 66:30
court [3] - 12:5, 51:30, 52:7
cover [3] - 2:25, 3:29, 7:19
covered [2] - 2:22, 26:20cow [1] - 5:21CROSS [4] - 27:1, 34:29,
47:8, 54:28cross [6] - 8:1, 56:21,
67:6, 68:26, 69:20, 69:23
cross-border [4] - 56:21, 67:6, 69:20, 69:23
cross-examined [1] - 68:26
CROSS-EXAMINED [4] - 27:1, 34:29, 47:8, 54:28
crossed [1] - 3:10crossing [6] - 7:3, 7:29,
15:5, 49:18, 49:26, 54:6crossings [1] - 58:15Crossmaglen [1] - 73:4Crowley [1] - 69:30crucially [1] - 63:21Crucible [1] - 14:5Culligan [2] - 71:3, 71:20cumulative [1] - 13:27Cushley [1] - 19:6Customs [54] - 2:5, 2:11,
3:3, 3:10, 5:28, 6:10, 6:11, 6:12, 7:6, 7:9, 7:22, 15:28, 16:6, 16:13, 16:16, 34:7, 47:24, 47:26, 47:29, 48:4, 48:11, 48:26, 49:29, 50:5, 50:9, 50:20, 50:22, 51:5, 51:8, 51:17, 51:26, 51:29, 52:5, 52:28, 53:3, 53:14, 53:22, 53:28, 54:10, 55:9, 55:17, 55:23, 56:3, 56:24, 56:29, 57:8, 58:20, 58:21, 58:28, 58:30, 60:7, 65:1
Customs' [2] - 15:1,
17:23cut [1] - 60:19
Ddaily [1] - 7:16danger [1] - 15:23dangerous [3] - 8:5, 8:7,
15:21date [14] - 15:3, 18:19,
21:28, 22:15, 23:18, 27:26, 28:6, 30:8, 30:9, 33:26, 38:16, 40:10, 42:20, 42:30
dated [1] - 24:11dates [1] - 30:9day-to-day [1] - 52:14days [4] - 19:23, 26:3,
44:2, 64:29dead [1] - 73:20deal [5] - 29:23, 31:20,
52:12, 55:1, 73:26dealing [8] - 17:14, 18:24,
19:22, 31:9, 31:10, 68:13, 69:6
dealings [1] - 55:2dealt [5] - 31:30, 50:30,
53:25, 69:8, 72:3Dear.. [1] - 12:15death [1] - 44:2deaths [4] - 11:9, 11:10,
25:16, 26:3deceased [3] - 3:22, 23:3,
68:4December [5] - 24:11,
32:4, 36:19, 39:27, 44:20
decided [1] - 4:30declare [1] - 6:12deeply [3] - 61:9, 62:19,
70:29definitely [2] - 53:16,
54:2delay [1] - 73:6deliberate [1] - 71:12delicate [1] - 68:23Department [8] - 4:12,
6:13, 66:20, 67:17, 68:18, 69:15, 69:29, 70:1
depended [2] - 59:3, 68:11
depth [1] - 14:13deputies [1] - 68:15Deputies [1] - 74:18Deputy [2] - 70:6, 71:3description [2] - 55:28,
67:1designed [1] - 14:9detail [4] - 13:16, 41:24,
42:7, 66:21detailed [2] - 50:10, 53:28details [3] - 6:25, 31:17,
64:25detected [1] - 48:7Detective [16] - 22:30,
23:4, 23:25, 24:20, 25:12, 32:19, 36:25,
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
3
36:28, 39:9, 42:8, 45:22, 46:8, 46:27, 62:20, 65:3, 65:7
detectives [1] - 32:8determination [1] - 71:30devoted [2] - 13:23, 50:4diaries [4] - 74:30, 75:2,
75:3, 75:5Diarmuid [1] - 27:5diary [35] - 9:14, 10:26,
18:12, 18:15, 19:14, 20:4, 21:24, 22:17, 22:23, 23:18, 23:19, 23:22, 23:27, 24:10, 24:25, 24:26, 25:20, 27:14, 33:30, 34:5, 36:21, 38:14, 38:17, 38:30, 40:10, 42:19, 42:21, 42:29, 43:13, 43:15, 43:16, 43:18, 43:23, 63:26, 75:8
die [1] - 37:30different [8] - 5:23, 6:19,
18:24, 22:8, 50:13, 50:14, 56:16, 71:25
difficult [3] - 18:3, 18:10, 44:30
dilemma [1] - 64:20dimension [1] - 72:25dinner [5] - 11:17, 11:21,
13:11, 14:21, 14:24direct [2] - 50:26, 70:12directed [1] - 13:30direction [1] - 30:11directive [2] - 18:17,
18:27directly [3] - 14:1, 29:19,
30:8Director [1] - 68:17discuss [5] - 9:24, 12:2,
20:18, 29:7, 30:26discussed [8] - 34:16,
34:17, 35:30, 39:7, 63:27, 65:16, 65:27, 66:22
discussing [3] - 20:21, 35:24, 36:15
discussion [11] - 25:29, 26:7, 26:9, 43:9, 44:3, 45:30, 66:19, 66:24, 69:20, 76:1, 76:7
discussions [4] - 9:11, 24:21, 34:16, 68:20
dispensation [1] - 8:2dispensations [1] - 7:29disposal [1] - 74:3disregarding [1] - 3:20dissatisfaction [1] -
14:26disseminated [1] - 14:5distinction [2] - 2:10,
47:12disturbed [1] - 14:11divert [1] - 17:2division [1] - 9:13Division [1] - 12:15Divisional [1] - 19:4doctor [1] - 8:21
![Page 83: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the Tribunaljustice.ie/en/JELR/2012-06-14_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day_103.pdf/... · thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per](https://reader031.vdocument.in/reader031/viewer/2022022802/5c789ac109d3f294278bb214/html5/thumbnails/83.jpg)
document [1] - 12:4Document [1] - 12:5documentation [3] -
59:5, 74:24, 74:29documented [1] - 13:22documents [2] - 21:1,
21:12done [13] - 11:24, 11:27,
13:15, 20:27, 20:28, 20:29, 29:14, 59:21, 65:24, 66:8, 66:16, 74:6, 74:20
doubt [4] - 38:29, 58:25, 63:7, 71:18
Down [1] - 19:22down [25] - 4:28, 6:22,
8:13, 8:15, 9:5, 9:23, 13:21, 15:27, 20:21, 26:20, 29:7, 29:10, 29:27, 30:1, 30:21, 30:26, 39:13, 43:14, 49:10, 54:14, 58:13, 58:24, 59:17, 63:29
dozen [1] - 76:3drawing [1] - 44:25drawn [2] - 56:20, 65:24drive [3] - 4:20, 5:14, 8:3Dromad [1] - 73:12dropped [2] - 6:24, 52:25drove [1] - 8:19Dublin [7] - 7:10, 20:21,
20:24, 59:13, 59:17, 60:20, 67:26
due [3] - 6:12, 18:29, 63:7Dundalk [16] - 19:27,
26:11, 28:24, 30:21, 30:26, 43:12, 43:17, 43:26, 43:30, 44:10, 44:22, 45:22, 46:5, 63:24, 68:30, 73:12
Durack [1] - 68:26duration [1] - 1:15during [5] - 8:28, 13:2,
43:10, 43:21, 55:23duties [2] - 8:10, 53:3Duty [1] - 19:15duty [1] - 5:2dwelling [1] - 5:10
EEamon [2] - 53:9, 53:13ear [6] - 3:14, 3:15, 3:17,
3:27, 3:28, 4:1eardrum [1] - 8:24early [3] - 23:8, 45:13,
46:24East [1] - 19:8Edward [1] - 23:1effect [2] - 5:25, 26:13effective [1] - 13:28effects [1] - 73:26effort [1] - 75:25efforts [1] - 13:21eight [1] - 6:15either [2] - 3:20, 33:1element [2] - 55:21, 72:1elicit [1] - 28:10
elsewhere [2] - 18:23, 70:17
emanate [1] - 13:4embarking [1] - 13:16emergency [1] - 73:19empty [2] - 23:5, 57:20encourage [3] - 62:12,
62:17, 75:23encouraging [1] - 63:5end [6] - 15:6, 15:8,
37:11, 43:4, 49:23, 63:22
endeavours [1] - 62:14ended [1] - 2:26engaged [5] - 49:9,
49:16, 50:12, 51:19, 70:17
England [3] - 2:19, 2:20, 6:21
ensure [4] - 9:3, 71:1, 74:20, 75:22
entered [1] - 14:4entering [1] - 18:1entirely [1] - 66:13entitled [4] - 63:1, 63:6,
63:7, 69:20entries [1] - 10:27entry [4] - 9:14, 27:14,
33:30, 36:21envisaged [1] - 26:18equipment [1] - 16:15especially [2] - 56:7, 75:6establish [3] - 13:17,
61:15, 73:8established [1] - 67:8establishment [1] - 67:10et [6] - 2:25, 15:4, 21:9,
45:17, 48:27, 59:27evasion [1] - 5:2event [4] - 15:26, 52:6,
74:4, 74:23events [1] - 26:8eventually [2] - 5:15,
26:18evidence [47] - 1:5, 1:6,
11:19, 13:8, 14:22, 14:25, 18:14, 19:7, 26:12, 26:16, 27:8, 27:12, 39:20, 39:27, 41:10, 41:12, 44:8, 50:28, 51:29, 52:6, 60:15, 60:17, 60:27, 61:2, 61:3, 61:4, 61:7, 61:10, 61:11, 61:18, 61:19, 61:29, 63:5, 63:8, 63:11, 63:15, 63:26, 64:1, 64:4, 64:5, 64:27, 65:10, 65:16, 65:26, 66:13, 66:29
examine [1] - 1:7examined [3] - 6:12, 67:2,
68:26EXAMINED [5] - 2:1,
27:1, 34:29, 47:8, 54:28example [4] - 7:29, 57:19,
59:22, 73:24except [3] - 13:6, 23:9,
32:20
exception [1] - 15:24exchange [1] - 7:18exchanges [1] - 70:14exchanging [1] - 7:23Excise [3] - 2:11, 55:9,
65:1excuse [1] - 22:21executive [1] - 14:10exhaustive [1] - 70:14existed [1] - 68:29existence [1] - 40:17expertise [1] - 14:10explain [1] - 63:13explained [3] - 41:15,
64:26, 65:5explaining [1] - 13:24export [1] - 3:11exportation [1] - 51:9exported [1] - 52:23exports [4] - 3:2, 21:9,
51:27, 52:23exposure [1] - 13:27expressed [2] - 14:26,
20:15extent [1] - 18:1extract [2] - 24:11, 24:19extracts [1] - 18:12
FFA [1] - 59:26face [2] - 24:13, 71:13facially [1] - 1:13facility [1] - 74:3fact [15] - 3:25, 6:12,
9:14, 13:22, 16:20, 16:21, 23:15, 38:30, 62:12, 63:18, 64:21, 65:9, 73:27, 75:13, 75:27
factor [1] - 73:14facts [6] - 13:4, 15:17,
16:9, 20:9, 33:14, 65:25fair [2] - 49:28, 75:7fairly [2] - 57:26, 59:20fairness [1] - 45:24faith [1] - 72:25families [1] - 70:28family [3] - 10:21, 63:2,
63:3far [14] - 17:1, 30:3,
35:26, 36:7, 37:12, 40:22, 46:27, 49:3, 49:16, 57:2, 57:8, 63:9, 64:23, 74:1
farm [1] - 5:9farm" [1] - 12:17farmer's [1] - 4:11farmers [2] - 3:22, 17:29farms [2] - 5:8, 56:28feasible [2] - 52:21February [1] - 13:3fell [1] - 30:30felt [3] - 14:27, 16:7,
19:27few [2] - 23:6, 35:4file [2] - 18:28, 18:29filled [3] - 4:29, 9:22,
44:17final [1] - 68:18finalise [1] - 46:22finally [3] - 14:15, 59:28,
61:26financial [1] - 16:28findings [1] - 61:21finished [1] - 69:26finishes [1] - 61:30firm [1] - 13:8first [16] - 3:16, 15:2,
26:11, 29:17, 30:20, 32:16, 44:5, 44:25, 47:12, 61:8, 67:2, 69:13, 69:25, 70:18, 72:4, 72:13
firstly [2] - 55:2, 68:9flavour [1] - 72:29focus [1] - 73:14focused [1] - 17:24follow [1] - 22:4follow-up [1] - 22:4followed [1] - 19:28following [4] - 25:16,
35:13, 43:16, 70:12FOLLOWS [6] - 1:2, 2:2,
27:2, 34:30, 47:8, 54:28follows [2] - 13:15, 50:8food [1] - 56:1foods [1] - 56:2Force [1] - 68:7forces [3] - 72:12, 73:25,
74:2Foreign [4] - 66:21,
67:18, 69:27, 70:1form [4] - 15:9, 38:5,
38:6, 70:12formally [1] - 73:27formed [1] - 2:12fortnight [1] - 66:23forward [2] - 20:19, 30:23forwarded [1] - 48:9forwarding [1] - 19:8forwards [1] - 7:23four [1] - 8:14frame [3] - 61:12, 62:20,
63:1frank [1] - 68:21freedom [1] - 16:18freely [8] - 7:22, 35:16,
35:17, 35:20, 35:29, 36:4, 36:5, 36:12
frequent [1] - 67:27friend [1] - 23:24Friend [1] - 62:10front [2] - 35:5, 35:25frustrated [3] - 57:18,
57:29, 57:30frustration [1] - 57:22fuel [5] - 4:25, 4:26, 4:27,
4:29, 14:12full [5] - 33:14, 44:17,
68:18, 71:23, 71:24fully [2] - 59:26, 74:19functions [1] - 51:7
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
4
GG30 [2] - 13:2, 14:1gain [2] - 3:2, 16:28Garda [30] - 9:24, 13:21,
18:29, 19:3, 23:6, 23:20, 23:25, 23:28, 24:21, 27:5, 27:9, 29:7, 32:5, 32:11, 32:13, 33:2, 33:9, 51:3, 56:30, 57:14, 65:7, 65:9, 67:17, 68:8, 68:16, 69:30, 72:3, 73:28, 74:2
Gardaí [4] - 22:28, 50:22, 73:7, 73:12
gathering [1] - 23:11general [17] - 12:2, 25:29,
29:16, 31:14, 31:15, 34:15, 34:16, 35:30, 36:10, 36:17, 37:1, 40:9, 40:18, 41:22, 46:2, 46:15, 75:19
General [3] - 67:16, 68:17, 69:29
generally [1] - 57:6generated [1] - 61:28gentleman [9] - 21:3,
25:14, 32:22, 36:26, 47:1, 65:1, 65:5, 65:14, 65:15
Gerry [1] - 66:28getaway [1] - 73:9given [15] - 17:29, 19:7,
19:11, 19:18, 26:12, 30:11, 38:8, 44:8, 60:27, 61:4, 61:11, 61:19, 61:28, 65:10, 75:3
Glasgow [8] - 2:22, 10:5, 21:16, 60:4, 60:8, 60:10, 60:11
Glassdrumman [1] - 13:1GOC's [1] - 13:26gossip [1] - 25:8governmental [1] - 67:23Governmental [2] -
66:18, 69:19grain [7] - 6:8, 10:8,
10:12, 21:9, 31:13, 31:14, 56:17
grains [1] - 51:9granted [1] - 69:16grateful [3] - 60:18, 71:8,
74:8greater [2] - 51:18, 75:23ground [2] - 16:27, 49:30grounds [1] - 63:10group [1] - 22:5guards [1] - 30:26
Hhand [2] - 51:22, 59:20handed [2] - 21:13, 21:14handle [1] - 7:18handled [2] - 14:27, 30:7hands [1] - 3:23harm [1] - 56:3
![Page 84: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the Tribunaljustice.ie/en/JELR/2012-06-14_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day_103.pdf/... · thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per](https://reader031.vdocument.in/reader031/viewer/2022022802/5c789ac109d3f294278bb214/html5/thumbnails/84.jpg)
Harry [28] - 9:6, 9:17, 14:24, 19:5, 19:10, 19:11, 25:17, 25:26, 26:5, 26:10, 30:20, 35:14, 35:15, 35:27, 35:29, 36:3, 36:9, 43:11, 43:17, 43:25, 43:29, 43:30, 44:4, 44:9, 44:22, 55:6, 63:23
harsh [1] - 62:29HAVING [1] - 2:1HAYES [5] - 1:4, 1:20,
65:30, 66:6, 76:12headed [1] - 69:18headlines [1] - 72:15headquarters [1] - 2:21health [1] - 70:10hear [9] - 11:25, 24:2,
27:6, 28:13, 29:17, 35:2, 39:25, 45:29, 48:21
heard [18] - 11:19, 11:26, 19:13, 19:25, 23:15, 24:1, 24:4, 24:5, 29:13, 32:15, 32:17, 36:30, 37:21, 45:18, 45:25, 46:23, 46:25, 53:16
hearing [3] - 23:10, 32:20, 32:21
hearsay [2] - 61:18, 61:22held [3] - 59:11, 68:28,
69:1help [1] - 34:2helpful [3] - 18:12, 55:7,
60:17helping [1] - 33:9herd [2] - 3:23, 4:11Hermon [3] - 68:4, 68:7,
70:6hierarchy [1] - 2:27high [3] - 2:26, 50:18,
56:5higher [3] - 24:14, 56:13,
56:26highest [2] - 69:3, 74:4highways [1] - 61:5hit [1] - 32:28HMG [1] - 12:5HMG36 [1] - 19:16hold [1] - 43:22holds [2] - 68:22, 69:8Home [1] - 67:14honest [2] - 37:12, 64:4honestly [1] - 31:29horrific [1] - 73:26hospital [1] - 8:21host [1] - 67:21hours [4] - 13:2, 13:3,
24:23, 64:22House [1] - 12:15house [1] - 5:10human [1] - 70:25hundred [4] - 3:9, 5:21,
5:22
II.. [1] - 53:11
Ian [1] - 70:5idea [4] - 15:6, 55:20,
75:4, 75:8identified [1] - 48:4identifying [1] - 2:27identity [1] - 4:14illegal [1] - 21:9illegally [2] - 5:25, 59:24illicit [1] - 13:18immediate [3] - 14:10,
33:11, 72:28immediately [4] - 26:2,
69:2, 69:25, 72:4impact [3] - 3:2, 3:5,
38:14implications [1] - 71:24imply [1] - 53:28implying [1] - 47:16import [1] - 3:11important [4] - 13:16,
53:23, 72:7, 74:29importation [1] - 51:9importations [1] - 6:9imported [1] - 59:24imports [1] - 51:27imports/exports [1] -
59:5impression [1] - 55:3improving [1] - 71:4in-line [3] - 38:23, 39:4,
40:24inaccurate [1] - 14:21incident [6] - 12:27, 63:3,
70:26, 70:30, 71:23, 73:18
incidentally [1] - 9:7incidents [2] - 57:22,
57:28incision [1] - 3:30inclination [1] - 72:13inclined [1] - 57:30include [1] - 22:28included [1] - 23:25including [1] - 13:20incorporated [1] - 56:27increased [1] - 5:26indeed [2] - 61:3, 72:8independent [1] - 50:9indicated [5] - 11:24,
12:17, 19:2, 19:5, 49:3indicates [1] - 9:15indicating [1] - 19:9indication [1] - 59:23indications [1] - 58:15indicator [2] - 52:26,
58:18individual [2] - 13:27,
35:19individually [1] - 16:7individuals [2] - 50:11,
51:18industry [1] - 6:5information [27] - 7:19,
7:23, 13:30, 14:3, 14:20, 22:29, 23:5, 23:14, 24:6, 33:3, 37:7, 37:9, 37:28, 38:2, 38:4,
38:7, 38:19, 39:12, 40:20, 44:17, 45:17, 49:29, 50:6, 50:10, 53:18, 53:23, 57:19
informed [5] - 13:7, 33:17, 39:1, 61:16, 61:26
inhibited [1] - 17:6injured [2] - 8:9, 32:28injuries [2] - 8:23, 8:24inquired [1] - 64:13inquiries [4] - 46:17,
49:24, 51:15, 59:3inquiry [4] - 21:5, 21:6,
21:15, 51:14Inquiry [2] - 61:19, 61:20insert [1] - 3:19inserted [1] - 4:2insofar [1] - 76:1Inspector [3] - 19:26,
19:27, 24:20instance [2] - 16:20, 67:2intelligence [5] - 14:2,
14:6, 15:4, 50:3, 50:6intend [1] - 74:16intention [1] - 74:19Inter [2] - 66:18, 69:19inter [1] - 67:23Inter-Governmental [2] -
66:18, 69:19inter-governmental [1] -
67:23interact [2] - 52:27, 53:3interaction [1] - 67:7intercepted [1] - 49:12interception [1] - 14:12interest [5] - 19:28,
55:16, 56:21, 66:10interfering [1] - 14:28intermediary [1] - 66:11internal [1] - 73:17intervening [1] - 39:19interview [1] - 1:15investigate [1] - 50:2investigated [1] - 60:4investigating [3] - 22:26,
65:6, 66:26Investigation [4] - 7:11,
7:12, 10:24, 59:13investigation [15] - 2:7,
2:13, 2:24, 7:9, 9:1, 10:7, 31:19, 47:27, 50:29, 50:30, 51:1, 51:23, 54:4, 54:15, 54:16
investigations [3] - 25:10, 48:9, 49:2
Investigative [2] - 18:16, 19:24
investigative [1] - 51:11invited [1] - 33:1involve [1] - 57:14involved [23] - 5:5, 7:13,
16:11, 16:13, 16:22, 16:27, 25:10, 29:19, 30:8, 33:26, 39:22, 50:21, 56:23, 56:25, 56:29, 57:3, 59:29,
60:2, 70:25, 72:2, 72:25, 75:4, 75:9
involvement [1] - 50:26involving [3] - 14:13,
33:27, 50:21IRA [15] - 18:2, 18:8, 27:9,
33:3, 33:10, 37:28, 53:10, 53:18, 53:23, 70:26, 71:30, 72:20, 73:5, 74:24, 74:30
Ireland [72] - 2:5, 2:14, 2:16, 2:18, 3:8, 3:14, 3:15, 3:19, 3:28, 4:3, 4:18, 4:20, 4:22, 4:24, 4:27, 5:1, 5:10, 5:11, 5:12, 5:13, 5:15, 5:27, 5:29, 6:9, 6:10, 6:20, 6:21, 7:9, 10:5, 10:9, 17:15, 17:16, 17:28, 17:30, 20:30, 47:13, 47:27, 47:28, 47:30, 49:25, 51:2, 51:3, 51:6, 52:24, 53:19, 56:19, 56:22, 56:27, 56:29, 58:23, 59:6, 59:7, 59:9, 59:12, 59:23, 61:5, 61:24, 64:26, 66:10, 67:13, 67:20, 68:7, 68:15, 70:7, 75:6
Irish [9] - 56:24, 57:8, 58:21, 58:28, 58:30, 66:18, 67:10, 69:18, 69:27
issue [5] - 63:21, 69:6, 69:10, 76:6, 76:8
issues [4] - 53:24, 53:25, 64:2, 68:23
item [1] - 4:25itself [3] - 5:11, 34:8, 51:1
JJack [1] - 68:6job [4] - 7:2, 16:18, 17:26,
56:10John [3] - 31:4, 68:4, 70:6joined [2] - 70:19, 70:20joint [2] - 50:27, 57:12Jonesboro [1] - 75:18journal [1] - 19:14JUNE [2] - 1:1, 76:20jurisdiction [3] - 61:17,
61:18, 62:13Justice [4] - 67:17, 69:15,
69:28, 69:30justification [1] - 72:11
Kkeen [3] - 55:16, 63:4kept [2] - 4:13, 75:22killed [2] - 32:26, 72:25Killeen [1] - 75:20killers [1] - 72:30killings [3] - 71:29, 73:27,
74:13Kilnasaggart [1] - 75:27kind [4] - 40:30, 71:30,
74:10, 74:13
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
5
King [1] - 11:20king [1] - 70:4KING [5] - 71:8, 71:29,
72:10, 72:28, 74:13knock [2] - 10:29, 11:1knowledge [13] - 18:6,
19:20, 23:7, 30:23, 32:1, 33:13, 45:13, 45:14, 50:10, 51:18, 53:29, 54:3, 54:9
known [8] - 1:18, 8:18, 23:2, 30:4, 30:23, 49:5, 57:4, 57:13
Lladen [2] - 4:21, 5:13land [5] - 11:4, 48:2,
48:28, 48:29, 51:9large [1] - 18:7last [8] - 35:9, 35:12,
41:30, 42:13, 42:18, 43:13, 61:27, 75:3
late [6] - 9:8, 26:5, 30:24, 36:8, 55:5, 69:28
Laverty [5] - 1:6, 30:10, 60:19, 67:2, 69:5
LAVERTY [22] - 1:11, 2:1, 2:4, 12:13, 24:17, 26:23, 28:15, 28:22, 38:27, 40:2, 41:19, 45:4, 45:8, 46:11, 47:18, 48:16, 48:23, 52:3, 52:30, 53:13, 55:25, 60:22
Law [1] - 12:14lawyers [3] - 65:13,
65:14, 66:11lead [1] - 53:27leading [4] - 9:29, 15:20,
16:16, 21:15leaking [3] - 23:4, 23:14,
37:7leaks [1] - 37:9learn [3] - 29:9, 29:28,
30:13learned [4] - 30:18,
30:20, 30:25, 33:22least [2] - 8:20, 73:11leave [3] - 17:9, 19:11,
65:28led [3] - 3:1, 29:21, 57:12left [3] - 3:15, 4:2, 52:1legal [2] - 51:26, 52:23legally [2] - 6:10, 52:23legislation [1] - 14:14legitimate [1] - 65:22lend [1] - 50:27length [5] - 7:2, 16:29,
17:6, 57:5, 68:11lengths [1] - 17:2Lenihan [1] - 69:28Leo [2] - 47:10, 47:20less [6] - 10:4, 15:2,
40:30, 54:3, 56:15, 66:1lesser [1] - 4:28lessons [1] - 75:22letter [1] - 14:17
![Page 85: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the Tribunaljustice.ie/en/JELR/2012-06-14_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day_103.pdf/... · thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per](https://reader031.vdocument.in/reader031/viewer/2022022802/5c789ac109d3f294278bb214/html5/thumbnails/85.jpg)
level [8] - 55:11, 55:29, 56:11, 56:13, 56:26, 69:3, 69:4
levels [1] - 71:25liaison [7] - 14:3, 23:10,
24:20, 32:5, 32:9, 32:14, 49:24
lightly [1] - 9:3likely [4] - 5:26, 21:8,
76:16line [11] - 38:23, 38:25,
38:27, 39:4, 39:11, 39:16, 40:24, 75:26
link [6] - 1:6, 39:24, 60:19, 75:14, 75:21, 75:28
lists [1] - 75:5live [1] - 58:2load [2] - 3:12, 6:14loads [1] - 4:30local [22] - 16:8, 32:8,
47:29, 48:11, 48:26, 49:29, 50:5, 50:9, 50:20, 51:5, 51:8, 51:17, 51:25, 51:29, 52:5, 52:28, 53:3, 53:14, 53:21, 53:28, 54:9, 58:20
London [2] - 2:21, 67:25look [8] - 14:23, 25:20,
31:19, 49:1, 58:14, 73:5, 73:9, 75:3
looked [5] - 4:15, 12:27, 16:19, 56:8, 71:19
looking [4] - 21:18, 21:24, 48:29, 75:25
lorries [3] - 11:22, 14:12, 15:10
lorry [2] - 4:21, 5:27loss [7] - 4:4, 18:9, 19:7,
21:20, 23:5, 39:21, 46:14
lost [3] - 28:15, 45:4, 48:16
lower [1] - 56:13
Mmagnitude [1] - 50:30main [4] - 5:28, 18:4,
75:12, 75:23mains [8] - 27:19, 27:20,
28:5, 28:7, 42:24, 43:11, 44:2, 64:21
Mains [19] - 25:24, 25:30, 26:5, 26:8, 28:3, 28:11, 29:10, 30:25, 43:8, 43:19, 43:24, 43:29, 44:4, 44:8, 44:21, 44:27, 63:23, 64:30, 65:4
Mains' [1] - 65:17maize [1] - 10:12major [2] - 16:21, 50:21man [5] - 36:30, 37:9,
37:13, 42:16, 46:18manage [1] - 18:13managed [1] - 44:18
manager [7] - 38:23, 38:25, 38:28, 39:4, 39:11, 39:16, 40:24
manually [1] - 14:1map [1] - 14:15March [34] - 9:17, 10:28,
10:30, 11:18, 11:29, 12:24, 12:25, 13:3, 14:2, 14:5, 14:7, 18:20, 18:21, 18:30, 19:13, 19:23, 20:3, 20:20, 25:18, 27:16, 29:8, 29:13, 30:20, 30:22, 42:25, 42:27, 43:1, 43:2, 43:3, 43:4, 43:5, 43:28
Mark [1] - 54:30marked [1] - 69:14Mary [1] - 24:13Maryfield [2] - 70:2, 70:8material [1] - 55:23matter [14] - 15:19, 19:3,
19:12, 20:17, 22:24, 33:4, 50:8, 51:20, 59:20, 62:4, 62:10, 69:2, 69:9, 71:18
matters [14] - 18:24, 19:22, 29:7, 29:23, 35:25, 56:9, 65:11, 66:19, 67:6, 68:14, 71:5, 72:13, 74:23, 76:4
maximum [1] - 74:21MCA [1] - 55:19McAnulty [5] - 22:11,
22:12, 31:4, 31:15, 31:28
MCAs [4] - 17:17, 17:20, 52:18, 52:20
McBurney [34] - 40:26, 40:27, 40:29, 41:3, 41:10, 41:16, 41:19, 42:1, 42:6, 42:13, 44:7, 44:12, 44:15, 44:27, 61:4, 61:9, 61:14, 61:16, 61:29, 62:7, 62:9, 62:30, 63:16, 63:18, 63:19, 63:20, 63:27, 63:30, 64:8, 64:13, 64:19, 65:24, 66:7, 66:11
McBurney's [2] - 61:23, 63:17
McGuinness [6] - 26:29, 27:4, 27:5, 28:17, 28:28, 34:24
mcGUINNESS [1] - 27:1mean [3] - 46:6, 48:18,
48:25meaning [1] - 36:2means [3] - 35:20, 62:17,
71:4meant [2] - 3:7, 55:17meat [2] - 3:20, 6:9media [1] - 72:28medium [1] - 56:14meet [7] - 25:1, 30:27,
30:29, 58:30, 65:14, 67:12, 67:22
Meeting [2] - 12:1, 12:23meeting [86] - 9:16, 9:20,
9:21, 12:7, 15:11, 15:16, 15:18, 18:17, 18:27, 19:12, 19:15, 19:20, 20:4, 23:1, 23:11, 23:19, 24:20, 24:29, 25:17, 25:28, 26:1, 26:11, 26:14, 27:14, 27:24, 27:25, 28:8, 28:19, 28:25, 29:8, 29:13, 30:11, 30:17, 32:3, 32:5, 32:9, 32:10, 32:12, 32:14, 32:15, 32:18, 33:8, 33:12, 33:20, 33:30, 34:2, 34:9, 34:20, 35:8, 36:19, 36:25, 38:10, 39:1, 39:3, 39:7, 40:23, 41:23, 42:24, 43:1, 43:10, 43:12, 43:17, 43:20, 43:26, 43:28, 43:30, 44:10, 44:20, 44:22, 63:24, 66:17, 68:10, 69:7, 69:13, 69:18, 70:16, 70:18, 70:19, 71:3, 74:17, 75:13, 75:16, 76:2, 76:8
meetings [23] - 23:9, 58:27, 58:29, 59:11, 59:12, 67:1, 67:15, 67:23, 67:25, 67:27, 68:9, 68:11, 68:13, 68:14, 68:23, 69:5, 69:7, 71:16, 71:25, 74:9, 74:14
member [6] - 18:7, 27:9, 33:2, 33:8, 46:5, 53:10
memo [3] - 18:30, 19:1, 19:8
memory [1] - 42:10men [15] - 8:20, 49:12,
49:13, 50:5, 50:9, 50:21, 51:5, 51:18, 54:10, 64:30, 70:28, 72:24, 73:20, 75:1, 75:17
men's [1] - 75:3mention [6] - 36:21, 39:2,
39:19, 40:5, 41:16, 44:7mentioned [27] - 12:19,
12:27, 25:11, 36:26, 37:1, 37:25, 38:10, 38:18, 38:20, 39:4, 39:15, 39:17, 39:26, 41:11, 41:26, 41:30, 42:2, 42:3, 45:12, 58:9, 59:28, 63:16, 63:17, 64:15, 64:21, 67:28
mentioning [6] - 7:6, 30:3, 44:19, 45:26, 59:30, 64:20
met [11] - 23:17, 23:23, 24:20, 24:22, 24:29, 26:4, 35:14, 35:27, 43:7, 43:19, 44:8
method [1] - 14:29methods [1] - 13:19
might [17] - 8:12, 16:24, 21:29, 39:24, 41:11, 44:11, 46:2, 53:28, 57:11, 58:7, 66:6, 66:8, 66:28, 73:8, 73:14, 75:1, 75:17
military [2] - 14:4, 14:6Mill [2] - 14:2, 14:4million [1] - 6:5millions [1] - 16:11Mills [2] - 12:5, 12:9MILLS [1] - 12:11mind [6] - 8:8, 13:26,
38:12, 44:5, 44:17, 46:28
Minister [5] - 67:16, 67:18, 69:27, 69:28, 70:5
Ministerial [1] - 69:4Ministers [2] - 68:10,
68:17minor [2] - 8:24, 48:30minute [1] - 28:15minutes [5] - 12:7, 18:26,
30:10, 66:2, 73:6missed [2] - 39:23, 70:18mixture [1] - 3:29mobile [2] - 48:1, 48:5modus [1] - 13:24mole [3] - 68:29, 72:3,
76:7moment [2] - 18:14,
50:16monetary [3] - 3:1, 3:2,
17:20money [5] - 5:16, 5:18,
6:3, 6:6, 17:18monitored [1] - 72:20months [1] - 67:24morning [5] - 1:4, 1:11,
22:8, 27:4, 28:29morning's [1] - 1:5mortar [1] - 32:28most [8] - 5:8, 5:26, 7:15,
8:5, 8:7, 13:23, 15:3, 21:8
mostly [1] - 21:8mould [1] - 61:10mounted [1] - 29:18mouth [1] - 22:18move [7] - 3:18, 16:21,
17:3, 21:6, 24:13, 56:11, 57:26
moved [2] - 14:11, 34:7movement [1] - 15:9movements [2] - 58:16,
72:20MR [54] - 1:4, 1:20, 12:11,
24:13, 26:29, 27:1, 27:4, 28:17, 28:28, 34:24, 34:29, 35:2, 39:2, 40:5, 41:25, 45:6, 45:12, 47:2, 47:6, 47:8, 47:10, 47:23, 48:18, 48:25, 52:5, 53:2, 53:15, 54:17, 54:23, 54:28, 54:30, 55:28, 60:12, 60:26, 62:9,
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
6
63:13, 64:8, 64:13, 64:19, 65:30, 66:6, 71:8, 71:16, 71:29, 72:10, 72:17, 72:28, 73:3, 73:24, 74:8, 74:13, 74:16, 75:12, 76:12
MRS [22] - 1:11, 2:1, 2:4, 12:13, 24:17, 26:23, 28:15, 28:22, 38:27, 40:2, 41:19, 45:4, 45:8, 46:11, 47:18, 48:16, 48:23, 52:3, 52:30, 53:13, 55:25, 60:22
MS [1] - 54:19multi [1] - 6:5multi-million [1] - 6:5murder [6] - 9:18, 20:12,
20:13, 64:22, 64:29, 70:23
murders [7] - 18:17, 27:10, 65:4, 65:18, 66:23, 66:25, 76:2
Murphy [20] - 8:16, 11:13, 11:22, 12:20, 13:18, 14:15, 18:28, 19:15, 20:22, 21:7, 29:18, 29:30, 49:5, 49:8, 49:16, 49:20, 50:16, 54:1, 54:8
Murphy's [11] - 8:17, 8:18, 11:4, 12:17, 13:17, 13:28, 13:30, 14:10, 30:12, 49:11, 49:22
Murphys [1] - 26:18must [6] - 14:29, 41:4,
51:17, 67:5, 71:16, 74:10
Nname [38] - 23:8, 23:10,
23:16, 23:27, 23:28, 24:1, 24:2, 24:4, 24:5, 24:7, 24:24, 24:25, 27:4, 32:17, 32:20, 32:21, 37:1, 41:16, 41:19, 41:26, 41:30, 42:17, 45:17, 45:18, 45:20, 45:26, 46:2, 46:4, 46:9, 46:12, 46:13, 46:25, 46:28, 54:30, 63:17, 64:15, 64:20
named [6] - 10:8, 65:2, 65:3, 65:7, 65:8, 65:9
names [7] - 7:7, 20:9, 41:21, 59:30, 60:1, 60:7, 65:10
nasty [1] - 69:9nature [2] - 52:10, 53:25nearly [2] - 7:15, 68:23necessarily [1] - 70:14necessary [5] - 15:24,
16:15, 17:4, 48:10, 71:6necessity [1] - 7:13need [4] - 22:24, 64:5,
72:21, 74:13
![Page 86: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the Tribunaljustice.ie/en/JELR/2012-06-14_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day_103.pdf/... · thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per](https://reader031.vdocument.in/reader031/viewer/2022022802/5c789ac109d3f294278bb214/html5/thumbnails/86.jpg)
needed [4] - 6:27, 16:2, 48:9, 53:7
needless [1] - 66:24needs [1] - 65:27negative [6] - 45:25,
45:28, 46:23, 61:7, 64:2, 64:6
netting [1] - 12:28never [7] - 9:12, 32:17,
33:26, 39:21, 45:18, 63:16, 69:11
new [1] - 2:7Newry [8] - 20:24, 23:2,
23:23, 32:5, 32:24, 36:20, 42:4
next [9] - 28:25, 30:27, 71:20, 74:17, 76:12, 76:13, 76:16, 76:17
nice [1] - 1:17night [4] - 24:22, 39:18,
39:20, 42:5nine [1] - 32:25NIO [1] - 70:7nobody [1] - 54:13none [1] - 51:13normal [2] - 49:26, 59:16normally [3] - 4:18,
36:14, 67:24north [5] - 2:20, 4:15,
6:11, 50:28, 67:7North [3] - 2:5, 67:29,
75:9Northern [46] - 2:14, 2:16,
2:18, 3:7, 3:14, 3:28, 4:18, 4:27, 5:1, 5:10, 5:11, 5:13, 5:27, 5:29, 6:10, 6:21, 7:9, 10:5, 10:9, 17:15, 17:16, 17:29, 47:13, 47:27, 47:28, 47:30, 51:3, 51:6, 52:24, 53:19, 56:19, 56:22, 56:27, 59:6, 59:9, 59:23, 61:5, 61:24, 64:26, 66:10, 67:13, 67:20, 68:7, 68:15, 70:6, 75:6
northern [1] - 67:18northwards [1] - 74:21note [8] - 19:25, 23:19,
33:29, 38:14, 66:20, 69:13, 69:20, 70:12
noted [5] - 13:5, 19:14, 70:20, 70:21, 73:16
notes [4] - 18:15, 45:9, 69:23, 70:10
nothing [14] - 13:5, 18:22, 25:3, 31:6, 33:23, 34:17, 35:23, 38:30, 42:3, 46:7, 46:18, 57:24, 58:1, 74:4
notice [2] - 22:10, 59:19notified [1] - 73:7November [1] - 10:20number [7] - 13:19,
13:29, 15:4, 54:23, 62:11, 66:9, 71:4
numbers [1] - 75:5
OO'CALLAGHAN [11] -
34:29, 35:2, 39:2, 40:5, 41:25, 45:6, 45:12, 47:2, 60:26, 61:2, 63:13
O'Callaghan [3] - 62:29, 65:19, 76:16
o'clock [1] - 76:17O'SULLIVAN [1] - 54:19oath [1] - 1:12objective [7] - 3:16,
15:25, 16:30, 17:2, 17:28, 61:14
objectives [1] - 70:30obliged [2] - 47:23, 62:9observation [2] - 62:6,
62:30Observation [2] - 13:1,
13:28observations [1] - 12:19obstruct [1] - 17:2obtained [2] - 3:19, 52:20obvious [1] - 71:11obviously [13] - 6:3, 6:26,
11:7, 12:24, 13:10, 14:20, 14:29, 27:13, 31:25, 38:12, 66:7, 66:22, 69:1
occasion [2] - 9:9, 53:5occasions [3] - 9:11,
52:27, 53:4occurred [1] - 73:25occurring [2] - 48:26,
71:25October [3] - 34:1, 35:9,
35:14OF [2] - 1:1, 76:20offences [4] - 2:13, 48:2,
48:29, 48:30offended [1] - 44:13office [1] - 2:22Office [2] - 14:18, 70:7Officer [2] - 25:26officer [5] - 2:29, 12:2,
14:4, 35:24, 53:22officers [21] - 16:16,
21:14, 23:24, 32:11, 32:25, 35:18, 35:25, 47:26, 48:4, 48:12, 48:26, 49:30, 51:29, 52:5, 52:28, 53:4, 53:14, 53:28, 56:3, 56:4, 58:20
officers' [1] - 65:10official [4] - 64:26, 66:20,
70:1, 70:7officials [3] - 6:13, 67:21,
68:19often [5] - 52:15, 57:18,
58:3, 59:2, 67:22OK [3] - 43:24, 46:1ON [1] - 1:1once [7] - 3:27, 4:17,
5:24, 15:5, 21:13, 52:17, 62:17
one [30] - 8:8, 8:10, 10:20, 13:29, 16:10,
18:10, 19:23, 22:8, 22:10, 22:12, 22:16, 31:4, 31:9, 31:23, 40:14, 44:19, 47:27, 48:8, 53:14, 60:26, 63:2, 63:5, 70:30, 72:24, 73:5, 74:22, 74:23, 75:2, 75:15, 75:22
one-off [1] - 48:8ones [1] - 2:11ongoing [6] - 7:8, 11:27,
21:10, 34:18, 48:11, 57:4
open [3] - 22:23, 69:15, 75:22
opened [3] - 12:6, 18:28, 30:10
operandi [1] - 13:24operated [2] - 2:24, 60:8operating [2] - 47:25,
47:26operation [36] - 10:8,
11:1, 11:2, 11:3, 11:12, 15:20, 15:21, 15:27, 16:10, 17:5, 19:18, 20:16, 20:18, 26:17, 26:20, 29:18, 29:29, 30:1, 30:6, 31:12, 31:14, 31:26, 33:27, 34:14, 34:18, 54:14, 55:8, 56:7, 56:26, 57:10, 57:11, 57:12, 57:25, 58:10, 60:3, 68:8
operations [14] - 7:14, 7:15, 12:20, 13:17, 13:30, 15:22, 50:21, 50:28, 56:23, 57:1, 57:2, 57:9, 57:18, 58:6
opinion [2] - 38:5, 38:6opportunity [5] - 48:14,
48:18, 48:25, 62:9, 62:25
opposed [1] - 47:13opposite [1] - 71:3Ops [1] - 19:2option [1] - 16:5Order [1] - 12:14order [1] - 19:11orders [1] - 19:17organisation [1] - 16:23organise [1] - 62:30original [1] - 3:26originally [2] - 2:16,
17:23originated [1] - 11:17otherwise [2] - 23:2,
33:24ourselves [1] - 75:21outcome [1] - 74:19outlook [1] - 17:29outrageous [1] - 62:10outside [3] - 51:6, 61:17,
62:13overall [1] - 29:24oversight [1] - 17:18Owen [19] - 22:30, 23:7,
24:24, 24:25, 35:4,
36:21, 37:27, 38:3, 38:8, 41:17, 41:19, 41:25, 41:29, 42:6, 42:11, 44:19, 45:13, 45:25, 46:23
own [9] - 15:28, 16:1, 16:15, 20:16, 24:17, 50:3, 53:17, 64:4, 66:8
owned [1] - 49:4
Pp.m [1] - 69:24p.m. [1] - 69:26page [4] - 24:8, 35:7,
43:5, 67:2pages [1] - 76:4paid [1] - 3:2paper [1] - 46:16paragraph [2] - 35:10,
35:13pardon [4] - 24:3, 27:29,
37:16, 45:2part [11] - 2:7, 2:19, 5:9,
8:5, 8:7, 18:24, 22:8, 44:25, 44:26, 51:23, 66:18
participate [1] - 25:14particular [65] - 2:10,
3:11, 6:7, 7:3, 7:26, 9:25, 9:30, 10:20, 11:15, 11:21, 11:28, 12:3, 12:7, 12:27, 15:10, 15:30, 16:17, 16:23, 18:10, 18:19, 20:25, 21:3, 23:17, 24:29, 27:26, 28:9, 28:24, 29:2, 30:3, 30:5, 30:17, 31:7, 31:18, 33:5, 33:27, 34:20, 36:18, 38:16, 38:17, 39:17, 40:10, 41:2, 42:5, 42:20, 43:10, 43:23, 44:29, 45:28, 46:7, 46:29, 49:11, 49:18, 51:27, 53:30, 54:5, 54:16, 56:18, 56:20, 58:16, 60:3, 63:3, 68:12, 73:13, 74:4
particularly [2] - 5:12, 67:10
parts [1] - 56:16pass [5] - 38:24, 38:27,
38:29, 50:3, 64:17passed [5] - 14:1, 38:22,
44:11, 45:10, 52:10passing [8] - 15:19, 23:8,
24:5, 25:11, 33:3, 38:10, 39:5, 39:6
past [3] - 8:15, 36:30, 49:11
patrol [2] - 48:5, 75:27patrolling [2] - 48:6, 51:6patrols [1] - 50:14pattern [3] - 52:22, 72:18,
72:21pausing [1] - 48:20pay [2] - 3:9, 15:30
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
7
peers [1] - 67:7people [40] - 3:5, 3:21,
4:13, 4:27, 4:30, 5:5, 6:19, 7:6, 7:22, 8:14, 9:1, 10:17, 15:19, 16:12, 16:24, 17:12, 18:9, 20:17, 22:5, 22:7, 23:12, 30:7, 31:3, 31:18, 36:8, 36:14, 36:16, 37:8, 37:10, 37:20, 37:23, 37:24, 41:14, 49:26, 52:19, 54:15, 63:5, 64:1, 75:9
per [8] - 3:9, 4:8, 5:19, 5:21, 5:30, 12:29, 52:21
perfectly [5] - 63:1, 63:6, 63:7, 65:22, 65:23
perform [1] - 58:10performing [1] - 58:10perhaps [12] - 2:11, 8:12,
11:12, 16:24, 21:29, 23:11, 25:20, 26:23, 63:13, 73:7, 75:18, 75:22
Perhaps [1] - 64:8period [3] - 12:28, 56:7,
70:18periodic [1] - 14:11periods [1] - 10:17permission [1] - 69:14permitted [1] - 33:2person [15] - 4:23, 4:28,
7:17, 15:1, 16:27, 22:10, 25:9, 31:19, 31:20, 33:11, 33:14, 37:6, 39:8, 42:4, 55:7
personal [1] - 59:16personally [3] - 52:16,
56:25, 57:3personnel [15] - 11:20,
16:6, 23:6, 23:20, 23:25, 24:21, 32:14, 34:6, 35:15, 35:28, 36:4, 39:29, 39:30, 40:3, 40:7
personnel" [1] - 23:28persons [1] - 35:19persuaded [1] - 66:12persuasion [1] - 72:26pertaining [2] - 47:28,
56:9phone [6] - 27:22, 27:24,
28:17, 28:19, 28:22, 28:23
phoned [2] - 29:10, 30:28photocopied [1] - 21:4photocopying [3] -
20:26, 20:28, 20:29phraseology [1] - 35:20physical [1] - 50:27piece [1] - 75:1pig [5] - 4:8, 4:14, 5:21,
5:30, 6:1pigs [11] - 4:7, 4:14, 4:16,
4:21, 5:3, 5:23, 5:24, 5:28, 5:30, 6:7, 56:17
pin [1] - 29:26PIRA [2] - 18:2, 22:27
![Page 87: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the Tribunaljustice.ie/en/JELR/2012-06-14_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day_103.pdf/... · thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per](https://reader031.vdocument.in/reader031/viewer/2022022802/5c789ac109d3f294278bb214/html5/thumbnails/87.jpg)
place [19] - 10:30, 12:1, 12:24, 15:7, 22:27, 26:5, 26:11, 34:9, 34:11, 38:16, 41:15, 43:1, 44:3, 44:5, 51:27, 54:14, 57:9, 59:2, 73:10
placed [1] - 19:19places [2] - 5:20, 56:21plan [2] - 14:12, 58:7planned [2] - 57:2planning [3] - 15:7,
56:23, 57:8plants [1] - 3:20plates [1] - 4:22plenary [1] - 69:25point [22] - 3:10, 8:10,
14:9, 14:11, 18:4, 19:10, 25:5, 27:27, 31:16, 32:21, 41:13, 46:22, 57:1, 60:26, 61:22, 62:2, 62:3, 64:24, 66:8, 73:13, 73:21
pointed [4] - 23:12, 23:29, 37:6, 37:13
points [2] - 61:8, 63:8police [16] - 7:4, 9:4,
14:28, 16:8, 16:14, 18:4, 26:3, 33:5, 35:24, 35:25, 55:23, 56:3, 71:26, 73:17, 75:10, 75:17
Police [5] - 23:1, 32:5, 32:24, 68:7, 73:19
policing [3] - 75:20, 75:25, 75:29
Policy [2] - 12:1, 12:23political [1] - 68:10portion [1] - 66:24position [5] - 15:14, 46:7,
58:11, 58:19, 60:6positioned [1] - 5:6possession [2] - 18:6,
74:29possible [3] - 29:27, 73:8,
74:20possibly [4] - 14:13,
29:18, 61:8, 71:14post [1] - 31:20potential [1] - 64:27pound [2] - 3:9, 6:5pounds [1] - 6:15practicing [1] - 61:17precautions [5] - 15:25,
15:26, 15:27, 17:4, 59:14
premises [4] - 49:22, 57:19, 57:20, 59:8
preparation [1] - 57:5prepared [1] - 57:23preplanning [1] - 29:24presence [3] - 35:18,
36:5, 40:24present [10] - 11:21,
20:10, 26:19, 32:12, 32:14, 35:15, 35:29, 36:4, 36:8, 44:26
pressed [1] - 72:21
presumably [4] - 15:11, 32:23, 32:29, 42:17
presume [1] - 61:27prevalent [1] - 58:5prevent [2] - 71:1, 73:9preventive [1] - 47:30previous [2] - 2:11, 33:30previously [1] - 23:15primarily [1] - 68:7primary [2] - 49:28, 50:5problem [4] - 4:16, 6:2,
55:10, 75:15procedures [2] - 67:9,
67:12proceed [1] - 1:7process [1] - 67:1product [3] - 15:6, 15:8,
37:11products [2] - 4:6, 4:7professional [1] - 25:4proffered [1] - 14:21profit [2] - 12:28, 13:7progress [1] - 19:12prominent [1] - 56:17prompt [1] - 64:5propaganda [1] - 70:26properly [1] - 49:5properties [1] - 57:6property [9] - 5:7, 8:16,
8:18, 9:2, 11:5, 11:22, 49:4, 49:20, 50:16
property-wise [1] - 5:7proposed [1] - 54:7protection [1] - 74:21prove [1] - 13:28proved [1] - 62:22provide [3] - 59:30, 60:7,
74:20provided [1] - 21:1providing [2] - 18:12,
21:3province [1] - 8:5provisions [1] - 7:27PSNI [10] - 7:1, 9:4,
20:19, 23:24, 33:5, 34:11, 51:2, 53:26, 55:1, 56:8
publicised [1] - 72:5purchased [1] - 3:7purport [1] - 70:13purpose [5] - 26:1, 40:15,
61:6, 61:12, 75:13put [8] - 4:19, 11:30,
22:18, 42:17, 44:13, 44:18, 72:2, 74:3
putting [1] - 66:28
Qqualified [1] - 4:8qualify [1] - 5:29quarter [1] - 23:23query [3] - 13:10, 18:28,
33:7questions [11] - 26:24,
26:27, 34:27, 35:4, 47:4, 47:11, 54:19, 54:21, 54:23, 60:12,
60:14quick [2] - 57:11, 59:25quickly [2] - 57:26, 59:20quite [2] - 14:5, 37:12quote [1] - 43:23
Rrail [2] - 75:14, 75:21railway [1] - 75:26raise [3] - 33:7, 41:16,
41:19raised [6] - 12:3, 13:14,
63:20, 69:2, 69:3, 69:10raising [1] - 64:2random [1] - 13:2rate [1] - 56:14Rathcarr [1] - 73:19rather [3] - 13:8, 13:27,
62:29re [1] - 19:15reach [1] - 59:7read [9] - 12:8, 18:27,
24:14, 24:17, 24:19, 42:29, 43:5, 43:15, 76:7
readily [1] - 69:16reading [1] - 73:16ready [3] - 1:7, 1:12,
48:20really [3] - 41:9, 42:23,
53:20reason [5] - 1:14, 18:4,
20:25, 43:3, 49:18reasons [2] - 1:14, 74:11reassured [1] - 74:28recalled [1] - 44:9recalling [1] - 13:26receive [1] - 40:25received [6] - 8:24, 21:14,
28:7, 28:10, 29:1, 38:2recently [1] - 61:4recipient [1] - 12:16recognise [2] - 46:18,
63:30recognised [2] - 1:13,
36:27recollect [5] - 28:13,
34:1, 35:19, 36:18, 42:7recollected [1] - 40:11recollection [7] - 28:29,
31:27, 33:15, 34:19, 38:15, 46:9, 46:11
recommendations [1] - 15:15
record [2] - 42:29, 70:13recorded [2] - 73:28, 76:3records [2] - 11:29, 66:21recruit [1] - 61:6recurrence [1] - 71:2Redacted [1] - 64:13refer [2] - 12:4, 35:8reference [5] - 22:25,
44:21, 64:27, 65:12, 76:6
referred [5] - 11:1, 31:2, 31:3, 33:29, 60:4
referring [6] - 5:8, 30:6, 37:19, 37:21, 38:3, 56:2
refund [1] - 5:29regard [1] - 50:1regarded [1] - 31:25regarding [8] - 23:16,
41:8, 45:16, 46:7, 53:23, 55:12, 55:22, 58:19
regards [3] - 48:26, 49:19, 52:23
region [2] - 56:20, 58:4Regional [1] - 19:8regional [1] - 2:21registration [1] - 4:22regrettable [1] - 61:9regular [2] - 48:11, 48:13regularly [1] - 67:12reinforce [1] - 74:13related [6] - 21:5, 33:11,
34:10, 34:11, 74:23, 76:2
relating [6] - 21:6, 31:12, 33:14, 35:22, 37:22, 76:4
relation [13] - 7:28, 9:30, 13:10, 15:23, 20:16, 20:22, 22:29, 29:29, 42:20, 55:19, 57:17, 74:3, 75:26
relationship [3] - 7:8, 68:4, 68:6
relative [1] - 56:12released [2] - 31:16, 32:2relevance [1] - 66:25relevancy [1] - 64:27relevant [3] - 24:19, 62:3,
65:6relied [1] - 63:9religious [1] - 72:26rely [1] - 6:29remains [2] - 65:30, 66:16remark [2] - 44:11, 62:21remarks [3] - 62:10,
62:26, 71:9remember [13] - 20:24,
38:13, 38:16, 38:17, 41:25, 42:11, 44:3, 44:4, 44:24, 44:28, 46:3, 46:13
remembered [3] - 42:21, 44:28, 46:28
remembering [1] - 20:25remove [2] - 3:16, 14:15removed [2] - 3:17, 3:27repeat [3] - 52:3, 52:30,
55:25reply [2] - 37:15, 37:17report [6] - 12:29, 19:3,
19:9, 30:12, 61:21, 73:17
reported [3] - 15:17, 73:10, 73:20
reporting [1] - 18:29represented [1] - 65:8representing [2] - 47:19Republic [24] - 3:8, 3:15,
3:19, 4:3, 4:20, 4:21, 4:24, 5:15, 6:9, 7:5, 10:9, 17:15, 17:16,
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
8
17:28, 17:30, 20:30, 49:25, 51:2, 51:3, 52:24, 56:28, 58:23, 59:6, 59:12
reputation [1] - 50:18request [1] - 19:6requested [3] - 12:29,
27:25, 50:27require [2] - 14:12, 16:13required [4] - 3:22, 19:9,
48:27, 57:7resent [1] - 62:19reside [1] - 66:9respect [1] - 61:8respective [1] - 4:11response [2] - 64:9,
71:13responsible [2] - 2:13,
51:8rest [1] - 56:12restricted [1] - 69:23restriction [1] - 8:30result [5] - 11:17, 13:7,
18:26, 19:12, 67:5resulted [1] - 31:26RESUMED [1] - 1:1rethink [2] - 17:9, 20:18reticent [1] - 36:3retired [2] - 47:10, 47:19return [1] - 49:12returned [1] - 5:27revenue [1] - 17:27risk [6] - 17:12, 55:22,
55:29, 56:1, 56:3, 56:5road [1] - 4:23roadblocks [1] - 73:8roads [1] - 75:23ROBINSON [5] - 54:23,
54:28, 54:30, 55:28, 60:12
Robinson [3] - 54:26, 54:30, 55:25
role [3] - 51:11, 51:14, 54:3
room [3] - 23:5, 32:20, 39:9
rough [1] - 15:6round [1] - 17:26route [3] - 5:28, 15:5,
75:18routinely [1] - 14:3RRF [2] - 14:1, 14:6RUC [14] - 7:1, 13:20,
14:3, 14:6, 19:18, 24:20, 33:1, 34:11, 35:8, 67:20, 67:29, 70:29, 71:4, 75:28
rumbled [1] - 17:13rumour [2] - 61:18, 61:22run [1] - 2:19running [1] - 20:18Rural [1] - 19:8
Ssadly [2] - 62:16, 65:15safer [1] - 75:17safety [2] - 15:28, 59:14
![Page 88: A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member For the Tribunaljustice.ie/en/JELR/2012-06-14_-_Smithwick_Tribunal_-_Day_103.pdf/... · thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per](https://reader031.vdocument.in/reader031/viewer/2022022802/5c789ac109d3f294278bb214/html5/thumbnails/88.jpg)
satisfied [1] - 74:30Saturday [1] - 74:17save [1] - 61:23saw [1] - 25:1scale [2] - 18:7, 26:18schedule [1] - 67:8scheduled [2] - 10:27,
76:13scope [1] - 72:20screen [2] - 12:9, 24:14search [3] - 10:27, 11:12,
57:6searched [1] - 57:20searches [3] - 10:23,
57:18, 57:28second [5] - 10:26, 10:27,
35:9, 44:26, 68:12second-last [1] - 35:9secondly [1] - 61:16Secret [1] - 69:14secret [1] - 62:11secretariat [2] - 70:2,
70:7Secretary [15] - 11:19,
12:3, 12:14, 12:19, 13:5, 13:13, 14:27, 67:13, 67:14, 67:16, 67:19, 68:14, 69:29, 70:4, 70:6
sectarian [1] - 72:1section [1] - 35:7security [22] - 1:13, 18:3,
18:13, 19:12, 20:7, 20:14, 20:15, 35:24, 53:19, 53:24, 53:25, 55:12, 55:14, 56:9, 66:19, 68:13, 68:20, 69:6, 69:21, 69:24, 71:5, 76:4
Security [2] - 11:30, 12:23
see [17] - 6:26, 8:25, 8:27, 10:26, 12:8, 18:26, 19:1, 24:10, 24:15, 25:16, 28:6, 35:12, 45:16, 51:26, 52:13, 52:22, 72:19
seeing [1] - 1:14seek [4] - 7:4, 40:19,
61:10, 72:13seize [1] - 9:2seized [3] - 51:15, 59:22,
59:23seizures [1] - 52:8selected [1] - 10:6self [1] - 53:10self-confessed [1] -
53:10selling [1] - 5:30senior [1] - 2:29Senior [2] - 19:2sense [2] - 50:9, 51:20sensitive [2] - 35:24,
68:29sent [2] - 18:30, 19:1sentence [1] - 36:2sentences [1] - 35:12separate [1] - 48:3
September [2] - 8:26, 66:30
Sergeant [26] - 22:30, 23:4, 23:26, 25:12, 28:11, 29:10, 30:25, 32:16, 32:19, 33:27, 36:25, 36:28, 39:9, 42:8, 42:15, 43:8, 45:22, 46:8, 46:27, 47:10, 47:19, 62:20, 64:30, 65:3, 65:7, 65:17
Sergeants [1] - 65:8series [1] - 21:21serious [6] - 8:28, 16:10,
62:21, 63:29, 74:26, 75:14
servant [2] - 47:13, 47:14servants [4] - 2:15, 2:17,
2:18, 60:7Service [1] - 73:4session [4] - 68:18,
69:16, 69:23, 69:25set [3] - 2:7, 67:12, 72:18seven [1] - 8:20several [2] - 13:20, 16:11shall [2] - 2:16, 62:4shared [1] - 14:3sheds [2] - 56:28, 57:24shocked [2] - 70:24,
70:29shocking [1] - 71:10shooting [1] - 73:10short [2] - 59:19, 70:18shortly [5] - 11:26, 29:13,
65:4, 65:18, 70:19shot [2] - 29:28, 73:20show [1] - 24:8showing [1] - 27:14shut [1] - 13:21SIB [2] - 7:9, 58:24sic [2] - 20:7, 72:12side [17] - 5:13, 5:15,
7:20, 7:21, 56:27, 57:27, 58:25, 67:16, 67:18, 67:19, 68:6, 68:16, 68:17, 69:27, 70:4, 72:30, 75:29
sides [3] - 26:20, 68:10, 68:19
significant [1] - 53:18similar [1] - 6:22simple [1] - 65:16simply [1] - 34:20Siochana [5] - 27:5, 27:9,
33:2, 33:9, 57:15sitting [1] - 76:13situation [15] - 5:2, 5:23,
7:17, 12:3, 16:26, 16:27, 17:9, 17:14, 20:22, 29:24, 31:18, 44:1, 45:16, 46:3, 58:1
situations [1] - 56:6six [4] - 22:7, 22:12, 31:3,
31:9Slab [1] - 8:18slaughtered [1] - 3:21slight [1] - 26:9slightly [5] - 5:23, 6:19,
66:22, 66:28, 68:25small [1] - 57:11smash [1] - 71:30smuggle [2] - 3:6, 18:7smuggled [1] - 4:6smuggler [3] - 10:28,
16:11, 16:20smugglers [7] - 3:16,
5:16, 5:18, 10:17, 10:21, 21:21, 22:5
smuggling [38] - 2:25, 4:5, 5:5, 9:24, 9:30, 10:8, 11:27, 12:20, 13:28, 16:28, 17:14, 17:24, 18:2, 18:9, 22:6, 25:5, 30:16, 31:13, 31:14, 49:9, 49:16, 49:19, 49:21, 50:1, 50:11, 50:12, 51:19, 51:23, 52:6, 52:19, 53:30, 54:8, 55:14, 56:2, 56:11, 56:15, 56:16, 57:27
solely [2] - 2:24, 60:4solicitor [2] - 40:26,
61:17someone [1] - 28:8sometime [4] - 10:14,
29:2, 29:8, 74:17sometimes [5] - 3:23,
9:2, 37:22, 67:13, 67:26somewhere [1] - 73:11soon [1] - 4:3sooner [1] - 73:8sorry [6] - 39:23, 43:3,
43:15, 45:4, 45:29, 50:24
sort [7] - 7:26, 8:2, 15:26, 15:27, 17:25, 69:7, 72:14
sorts [1] - 3:30sought [3] - 18:28, 19:4,
69:15sound [7] - 4:4, 18:9,
19:7, 21:20, 23:5, 39:21, 46:14
source [2] - 49:28, 50:5south [40] - 4:15, 4:28,
5:9, 5:10, 5:26, 6:11, 6:20, 6:23, 7:6, 7:18, 7:22, 8:3, 8:7, 8:19, 9:5, 10:21, 10:28, 11:5, 11:28, 12:20, 14:15, 26:25, 47:25, 50:15, 50:22, 50:28, 51:19, 52:16, 52:28, 53:2, 53:29, 56:15, 56:16, 56:24, 58:3, 58:28, 59:11, 59:21, 59:25, 75:16
southern [1] - 10:24southwards [1] - 74:22speaking [6] - 36:14,
36:15, 37:23, 57:6, 66:10
Special [10] - 7:11, 10:24, 18:16, 19:24, 20:4, 20:19, 33:23, 46:5,
59:13, 71:27special [3] - 7:12, 9:4,
67:26specific [2] - 34:17, 35:21specifically [4] - 13:14,
49:20, 50:15, 68:13speculation [1] - 13:8speech [1] - 70:12spent [1] - 2:4SPM [3] - 12:21, 12:23,
13:26spoken [6] - 18:11, 62:14,
62:15, 63:18, 63:19, 63:20
Square [3] - 23:2, 32:25, 45:19
Staff [2] - 25:26stage [4] - 4:8, 11:11,
68:13, 69:25stand [2] - 63:29, 71:14start [1] - 64:2started [2] - 5:18, 10:14State [12] - 11:20, 12:4,
12:19, 13:5, 13:14, 14:27, 22:27, 67:13, 67:19, 68:15, 70:4, 70:5
state [1] - 35:13statement [19] - 25:23,
26:13, 33:29, 35:5, 35:8, 43:4, 44:19, 45:1, 45:6, 45:10, 49:3, 63:22, 64:21, 64:28, 64:30, 65:3, 65:17
stating [2] - 44:21, 46:4Station [6] - 23:1, 32:5,
32:6, 32:25, 35:9, 73:19station [10] - 19:16, 26:4,
33:2, 34:8, 34:11, 34:12, 51:25, 51:28, 55:7, 68:30
stationed [3] - 27:27, 27:30, 28:1
stations [3] - 47:29, 51:10, 51:26
step [2] - 16:12, 71:1steps [3] - 7:19, 16:23,
71:22Stewart [1] - 70:5still [1] - 21:10sting [2] - 11:2, 11:3stock [1] - 4:13stop [1] - 48:1stopped [2] - 4:22, 51:14stories [1] - 72:28Stormont [2] - 11:18,
12:15story [2] - 72:2, 72:11straddled [2] - 49:22,
57:7straddling [1] - 56:28straightforward [1] - 52:8strapping [1] - 56:1strategically [1] - 5:6strategy [1] - 17:9Street [1] - 23:1strong [1] - 61:13strongly [1] - 72:3stuck [3] - 1:14, 38:12,
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
9
44:5stuff [1] - 5:13subject [2] - 11:22, 30:3submissions [3] - 61:20,
62:4, 63:8subsequently [4] - 3:18,
5:14, 8:21, 45:10subtlety [1] - 14:13success [3] - 7:28, 13:23,
31:25successful [1] - 58:8successfully [1] - 7:28suggest [3] - 44:14, 50:8,
51:17suggesting [5] - 50:20,
51:5, 53:21, 54:7, 54:12suggests [1] - 9:15summary [1] - 14:6Sunday [1] - 13:23Superintendent [20] -
11:16, 15:12, 19:14, 19:19, 19:26, 26:4, 27:10, 27:15, 34:6, 34:21, 55:2, 55:3, 55:5, 55:6, 55:12, 70:23, 70:24, 75:7
Superintendents [1] - 29:28
superiors [1] - 33:8supplement [1] - 13:24supplied [1] - 64:25suppose [2] - 70:10, 76:5supposed [2] - 9:16,
10:29surprised [2] - 33:1,
63:24surprises [1] - 61:28survey [5] - 13:1, 13:2,
13:4, 13:29, 14:9surveys [1] - 13:29suspected [1] - 33:3suspicion [1] - 68:28sustain [1] - 8:23sustainable [1] - 62:23sustained [1] - 51:23SWEENEY [1] - 24:13SWORN [1] - 2:1sympathies [1] - 70:28system [1] - 68:8
Ttable [1] - 74:11tag [1] - 3:26tagged [2] - 3:14, 3:15tags [7] - 3:17, 3:19, 3:20,
3:27, 3:28, 4:2, 59:27TANAISTE [1] - 72:7Tanaiste [1] - 69:27tanker's [1] - 13:6tankers [1] - 12:28target [1] - 16:17targeted [2] - 10:18,
10:21targets [1] - 10:7tasked [1] - 65:1team [5] - 10:4, 29:21,
60:1, 60:5, 68:19
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teams [1] - 48:1telephone [2] - 18:21,
75:5ten [3] - 6:15, 38:1, 66:2tending [1] - 3:5term [1] - 61:13terms [12] - 22:25, 29:27,
35:30, 36:10, 37:1, 40:18, 41:22, 46:2, 65:12, 72:30, 75:20, 75:29
terrible [1] - 72:29terrorism [1] - 17:24THE [7] - 1:1, 27:1, 34:29,
47:8, 54:28, 76:20themselves [3] - 16:1,
41:14, 51:16THEN [1] - 76:20thereabouts [1] - 64:22therefore [7] - 4:11, 4:16,
5:1, 5:19, 5:28, 39:22, 66:25
thinking [4] - 5:4, 10:11, 11:7, 11:11
third [1] - 43:5thorough [1] - 68:21thousand [1] - 6:15threat [3] - 8:28, 8:30,
15:29threats [1] - 17:12three [11] - 6:1, 8:13,
26:2, 41:30, 42:13, 44:2, 49:13, 61:8, 65:9, 67:24, 71:25
throughout [3] - 2:14, 56:19, 56:22
thwarted [1] - 13:20TO [1] - 76:20today [4] - 39:20, 39:27,
66:1, 76:12together [4] - 71:12,
74:11, 74:17, 75:1toll [2] - 5:20Tom [1] - 11:20tomorrow [1] - 30:29took [11] - 3:8, 12:1,
12:24, 34:9, 36:2, 41:15, 43:1, 44:3, 45:9, 58:7, 73:10
topics [1] - 43:20topics" [1] - 43:14total [1] - 15:8touch [3] - 7:16, 48:28,
53:8touching [1] - 65:11Tower [2] - 13:1, 13:29tractor [2] - 4:17, 4:20traditional [1] - 17:17traffic [2] - 15:10, 58:16tragedy [1] - 70:25tragic [1] - 75:13training [2] - 16:2, 16:4transactions [1] - 5:17transferred [1] - 6:24transversing [1] - 11:22travel [3] - 7:22, 58:30,
59:19
travelled [3] - 14:24, 20:24, 59:14
travelling [3] - 61:5, 61:24, 74:21
treated [1] - 19:6treatment [1] - 8:22trend [2] - 52:18, 55:18TRIBUNAL [2] - 1:1,
76:20Tribunal [46] - 11:15,
11:19, 11:30, 12:6, 14:25, 19:7, 19:25, 21:26, 22:11, 22:29, 26:12, 26:16, 29:4, 34:9, 39:28, 39:30, 40:2, 40:6, 40:8, 40:12, 40:14, 40:15, 40:20, 40:26, 41:6, 41:10, 41:14, 44:9, 45:8, 45:9, 60:1, 60:17, 61:20, 62:14, 62:15, 62:16, 63:15, 64:14, 65:6, 65:9, 65:11, 65:12, 65:13, 65:14
Tribunal's [1] - 40:17Tribunals [1] - 61:19tried [2] - 3:29, 62:12trimmings [1] - 6:14trouble [1] - 5:12truth [3] - 61:15, 63:4,
69:8truthful [1] - 64:4try [7] - 15:25, 17:28,
29:26, 42:10, 55:15, 64:1, 72:14
trying [9] - 28:10, 61:6, 61:10, 61:12, 62:30, 72:29, 73:26, 75:1
TUESDAY [1] - 76:20Tuesday [4] - 10:30,
76:13, 76:16, 76:17turning [1] - 32:3twice [1] - 52:17two [23] - 6:1, 8:13,
23:23, 26:2, 31:10, 35:12, 44:21, 48:3, 61:8, 64:29, 65:9, 65:14, 67:24, 70:28, 71:12, 73:20, 73:25, 74:2, 74:18, 74:22, 74:30
type [3] - 6:22, 57:10, 57:25
typed [3] - 45:1, 45:6, 45:9
types [1] - 48:3typical [2] - 59:22, 72:12
UUK [1] - 67:14Ulster [1] - 68:28unable [2] - 20:8, 60:6unarmed [1] - 16:6unaware [1] - 15:8unchallenged [1] - 62:11undated [1] - 12:16under [6] - 8:27, 8:30,
15:29, 23:28, 55:9, 59:7Under [1] - 12:14unease [1] - 14:29unfortunate [1] - 75:15unfortunately [2] - 9:20,
72:17Uniform [1] - 71:26unit [15] - 2:7, 2:10, 2:24,
2:27, 2:28, 2:29, 4:18, 4:20, 47:24, 47:27, 48:3, 48:4, 50:9
Unit [2] - 19:24, 73:5unit's [1] - 49:15unless [2] - 34:17, 41:14unproved [1] - 15:5unrelated [1] - 66:13untowards [1] - 42:3unusual [2] - 35:23, 53:6up [52] - 2:7, 2:26, 3:29,
4:23, 4:29, 4:30, 6:20, 6:27, 9:4, 9:29, 11:10, 11:11, 11:12, 11:23, 12:9, 14:23, 15:3, 16:6, 21:20, 22:4, 23:8, 23:10, 24:1, 24:7, 30:28, 32:21, 33:6, 33:25, 38:21, 43:21, 45:1, 45:6, 45:9, 45:17, 45:20, 45:22, 46:2, 46:4, 46:9, 46:11, 46:13, 46:15, 51:16, 56:30, 59:7, 59:18, 59:26, 73:21, 75:27, 75:28
up-to-date [1] - 15:3update [1] - 55:18updated [1] - 15:14urgent [1] - 19:6urgently [1] - 59:21
Vvalue [1] - 70:26various [8] - 10:17, 24:21,
36:15, 43:14, 43:20, 50:2, 58:14
vehicle [2] - 5:13, 12:29vehicles [6] - 6:16, 6:17,
6:19, 15:4, 15:10, 48:2verbatim [1] - 70:13versa [2] - 10:10, 59:10via [2] - 19:4, 20:24vice [2] - 10:9, 59:9vicinity [1] - 49:4victims [1] - 63:2video [1] - 1:6video-link [1] - 1:6view [14] - 14:28, 14:30,
15:2, 17:23, 18:4, 19:4, 23:14, 25:5, 55:11, 55:29, 62:3, 65:23, 69:1, 73:24
views [3] - 12:9, 18:29, 20:14
visit [4] - 11:16, 34:7, 58:13, 58:14
visitations [1] - 18:16visited [2] - 52:27, 53:2
visiting [2] - 19:24, 58:24vital [1] - 53:23
Wwants [1] - 30:29warn [1] - 17:7warned [3] - 23:3, 23:13,
37:6warning [1] - 70:10warnings [1] - 17:11WAS [5] - 2:1, 27:1,
34:29, 47:8, 54:28watch [1] - 46:14ways [1] - 71:4weapons [1] - 16:4Wednesday [2] - 24:11,
34:3week [6] - 29:28, 30:4,
52:15, 52:17, 74:17weekend [2] - 71:2, 71:20weekly [1] - 7:16weeks [2] - 41:30, 42:13well-documented [1] -
13:22well.. [1] - 41:12whatsoever [1] - 51:13whereby [1] - 72:20who'd [1] - 32:8whole [4] - 17:18, 67:21,
75:20, 75:26widely [1] - 14:5wind [1] - 16:20wise [1] - 5:7wish [2] - 1:13, 26:24wishes [1] - 62:7withdrawn [1] - 62:22withdrew [1] - 20:10witness [12] - 1:5, 19:1,
41:1, 47:4, 54:24, 61:12, 61:27, 63:14, 63:25, 64:19, 65:25, 76:15
Witness [35] - 1:12, 2:4, 11:15, 12:8, 14:22, 14:23, 19:1, 20:7, 23:22, 24:17, 27:4, 27:8, 34:6, 34:24, 35:14, 43:7, 43:9, 43:19, 43:20, 47:10, 48:25, 49:14, 49:28, 51:17, 52:16, 53:21, 53:27, 54:7, 54:30, 56:11, 58:27, 59:28, 60:16, 60:27, 61:3
WITNESS [5] - 2:1, 27:1, 34:29, 47:8, 54:28
witnesses [8] - 61:3, 61:6, 61:28, 62:13, 63:1, 63:11, 66:9, 66:13
wonder [2] - 55:1, 59:29wonder.. [1] - 66:2wondering [2] - 18:15,
35:16word [1] - 10:12words [2] - 22:18, 43:16workings [2] - 55:4,
55:17
Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.
10
worth [1] - 6:15writing [1] - 24:18written [1] - 23:27
Yyard [6] - 3:13, 4:17, 4:19,
5:11, 5:14yards [3] - 5:3, 5:4year [2] - 40:4, 75:3years [9] - 13:19, 38:1,
38:13, 39:20, 40:6, 41:26, 42:12, 43:24, 62:12
yesterday [1] - 12:21yourself [1] - 8:9
££1 [1] - 5:21£10 [2] - 4:8, 5:30£100 [2] - 5:19, 52:21£2.50 [1] - 5:21£2.50s [1] - 5:22