br. jerome cudden, o.p. mormon evangelization a catholic response to copyright © 2006 by the...

Br. Jerome Cudden, O.P.

Mormon EvangelizationA Catholic Response To

Copyright © 2006 by the Western Dominican Province.  All rights reserved.

Who is this talk designed for?

What are its goals?

Charity for Mormon missionaries, family members,

friends and neighbors

My experience with Mormons

Different ScripturesDifferent Theology

Same Terms, Different Meanings

Modern Day “Tower of Babel”

MormonBackground Information

Mormon Great Apostasy

“In the spring of 1820, a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith went into a grove of trees near his

home in Palmyra, New York, and prayed to learn which church he should join. In answer to his prayer, God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared

to him, just as heavenly beings had appeared to prophets like Moses and Paul in biblical times.

Joseph learned that the Church originally organized by Jesus Christ was no longer on the earth.”

http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,956-1,00.html

Mormon Restoration

“Joseph Smith was chosen by God to restore the Church of Jesus Christ to the earth.

During the next 10 years, Joseph was visited by other heavenly messengers, translated the Book of Mormon, and received authority to

organize the Church. The Church was organized in Fayette, New York, on 6 April

1830, under the leadership of Joseph Smith.”

http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,956-1,00.html

Effects of the Mormon Apostasy and Restoration

Because of the Apostasy and Restoration

Different ScripturesDifferent Theology

Same Terms, Different Meanings

Modern Day “Tower of Babel”

A Catholic Response toMormonism Evangelization

Four Step Plan

Step One

Focus the discussion on the Great Apostasy

“The significance and importance of the ‘great apostasy’, as a condition precedent to the re-

establishment of the Church in modern times, is obvious. If the alleged apostasy of the primitive Church was not a reality, The Church of Jesus

Christ of Latter-day Saints is not the divine institution its name proclaims.”

Why?

James E. Talmage, The Great Apostasy, Preface

The thesis of my presentation is

“If the alleged apostasy of the primitive Church was not a reality, The Church of

Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not the divine institution its name proclaims.”

No Apostasy = No Mormonism

James E. Talmage, The Great Apostasy, Preface

You may ask, “What is the Great Apostasy?”

Apostasy - a renunciation or abandonment of a former loyalty (as to a religion).

In search of…

Our search for the Great Apostasy will include

How to focus the discussion

“My understanding is…. Can we agree to talk about the

Great Apostasy?”

No agreement, no dialog!

Summary

Step One

Focus the discussion on the Great Apostasy

Benefits of Step One

Clearly defined objective

Eliminates part of the Tower of Babel

Step Two

Remove Mormon literature and teachings (Mormonism) from the

discussion

Explore the Question

Was there a Great Apostasy?

Was there a Great Apostasy?

Ask, “Does this make sense?”, “Right?”, etc.

No Mormon Church

No Book of Mormon

Great Apostasy?

Restoration NeededYes

No No Restoration

No Joseph SmithNo Restoration

No Joseph Smith

No Book of Mormon

Final check in: “Does this make sense?”

If yes, then you are ready to move on

If no, start over again

Until the Great Apostasy can be proven, Mormon literature and teachings cannot be used to prove

the Great Apostasy

What follows from this?

Was there a Great Apostasy?

No Mormon Church

No Book of Mormon

Great Apostasy?

Restoration NeededYes

No No Restoration

No Joseph SmithNo Restoration

No Joseph Smith

No Book of Mormon

No Mormon Church

No Book of Mormon

Great Apostasy?

Restoration NeededYes

No No Restoration

No Joseph SmithNo Restoration

No Joseph Smith

No Book of Mormon

Suspect

Backwards Thinking

Get the Mormon to agree that Mormon literature and teachings are not relevant to the discussion and will be left out of the discussion

from now on

Mormon Reactions

Challenge – Go over the chart again

Agreement (sometimes skeptical)

Tirade

Summary

Step TwoRemove Mormon Literature from the discussion

Summary

Step Two Remove Mormon Literature from the discussion

Do not allow Mormon literature back into the discussion

Benefits of Step Two

You do not need to have knowledge of Mormon literature or beliefs

Eliminates another aspect of the Tower of Babel by eliminating Mormonism from the discussion

Step Three

Remove Sacred Scripture From the Discussion

Three Causes of the Great Apostasy

1 - Death of the Apostles2 - Biblical Prophecies

3 - Problems with the Faithful

Cause # 1 The death of the apostles caused the Great Apostasy

What does the New Testament tell us about the lives and deaths

of the Apostles?

Judas dies (Matthew 27) - 11 Apostles

Jesus calls 12 Apostles (Matthew 10)

Matthias called (Acts 1) - 12 Apostles

Paul called (Acts 9) - 13 Apostles

James martyred (Acts 12) - 12 Apostles

Conclusion #1

Twelve Apostles are alive according to the New Testament

Scripture does not provide any evidence of a Great Apostasy resulting from the death of

the Apostles!

Cause #2 Biblical Prophecies

Mormons appeal to Old Testament prophecies about a “Great Apostasy”

Isaiah 24:3-5

Where is it fulfilled?

The earth shall be utterly laid waste and utterly despoiled; for the LORD has spoken this word.

The earth mourns and withers, the world languishes and withers; the heavens languish together with the earth. The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants;

for they have transgressed the laws, violated the statutes, broken the everlasting covenant.

Example of Scriptural Fulfillment

Isaiah 7:14

Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall

name him Emmanuel.

Matthew 1:22-23

Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel,

which being interpreted is, God with us.

Mormons also appeal to New Testament prophecies about a “Great Apostasy”

Ask for Scriptural Fulfillment

2 Timothy 4:3-4

Where is it fulfilled?

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.

The Book of Revelation is full of prophecies that have not been fulfilled

Prophecies are statements about future events. They are not proof of anything happening.

Where in the Scriptures are the prophecies fulfilled?

Conclusion #2

There is no Biblical evidence of the Great Apostasy actually happening

Cause #3Problems with the Faithful

False Teachings / Teachers

From which [the faith] some, having swerved, have turned aside into vain discussion; desiring to be teachers of the

Law; understanding neither what they say, nor what they affirm.1 Timothy 1:6-7 (Past tense)

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate

for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (Future tense)

Immorality

Google Search

2 + 2 = 4

What did the Christians do that was so bad?

Falling Away From the Faith

Conclusion # 3

Problems with the faithful did not cause the Great Apostasy

Is there Scriptural evidence of the Great Apostasy actually happening?

There is NO Scriptural evidence of the Great Apostasy actually happening!

Summary - Step ThreeRemove Sacred Scripture

from the Discussion

Summary - Step ThreeRemove Sacred Scripture

from the Discussion

Do not allow Sacred Scriptureback into the discussion

Benefits of Step Three

You do not need to be a Biblical expert

You have eliminated the “Scripture-slinging contest” and personal interpretation

Step Four

Stick to the historicity of the Great Apostasy

2,000 years is a lot of history

Narrow the scope of the search using the Council of

Nicaea as an end point

Mormons sources would lead one to conclude that Great Apostasy happened

at or before the Council of Nicaea, 325 AD

Notwithstanding the numerous New Testament witnesses of the Savior as a resurrected being

following his crucifixion (see, for example, Luke 24:36-48), there still persists the fallacious

doctrine formulated at the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 that God the Father, his Son, Jesus

Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three personages of spirit—three personages in one.

Spencer J. Condie, “The Fall and Infinite Atonement,” Ensign (Jan 1996): 22.

Gordon B. Hinckley, “What Are People Asking about Us?” Ensign (Nov 1998) 70.

“We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost”

(A of F 1:1). This first article of faith epitomizes our doctrine. We do not accept the

Athanasian Creed. We do not accept the Nicene Creed, nor any other creed based on tradition

and the conclusions of men.

The Great Apostasy must have occurred on or before 325

So anything after 325 is irrelevant:The Crusades (1000)

The Western Schism (1400)

The Spanish Inquisition (1400)

The Protestant Reformation (1500)

The Priest Scandal (2000)

Apostolic SuccessionPeter (33-67)Linus (67-76)Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)Clement I (88-97)Evaristus (97-105)Alexander I (105-115)Sixtus I (115-125)Telesphorus (125-136)Hyginus (136-140)Pius I (140-155)Anicetus (155-166)Soter (166-175)Eleutherius (175-189)Victor I (189-199)Zephyrinus (199-217)Callitstus I (217-222)

Urban I (222-30)Pontain (230-35)Anterus (235-36)Fabian (236-50)Cornelius (251-53)Lucius I (253-54)Stephen I (254-257)Sixtus II (257-258)Dionysius (260-268)Felix I (269-274)Eutychian (275-283)Caius (283-296) Marcellinus (296-304)Marcellus I (308-309)Eusebius (309 or 310)Militiades (311-14)Sylvester I (314-35)

Where does it break down?Peter (33-67)Linus (67-76)Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)Clement I (88-97)Evaristus (97-105)Alexander I (105-115)Sixtus I (115-125)Telesphorus (125-136)Hyginus (136-140)Pius I (140-155)Anicetus (155-166)Soter (166-175)Eleutherius (175-189)Victor I (189-199)Zephyrinus (199-217)Callitstus I (217-222)

Urban I (222-30)Pontain (230-35)Anterus (235-36)Fabian (236-50)Cornelius (251-53)Lucius I (253-54)Stephen I (254-257)Sixtus II (257-258)Dionysius (260-268)Felix I (269-274)Eutychian (275-283)Caius (283-296) Marcellinus (296-304)Marcellus I (308-309)Eusebius (309 or 310)Militiades (311-14)Sylvester I (314-35)

Mormonism is not the rule of thumb

Backwards

Thinking

Lost or invented? Vice Versa.

Infant Baptism

Mormons believe

Early Church believes

No Mormon Church

No Book of Mormon

Great Apostasy

Restoration NeededYes

No No Restoration

No Joseph SmithNo Restoration

No Joseph Smith

No Book of Mormon

Suspect

Backwards Thinking

Where is “The Smoking Gun?”

• Where are the historical records that ask:– Where are the apostles?

– Where are our prophets?

• “The writings were destroyed!”

We have the writings of Gnosticism, Ophitism, Adoptionism, Sabellianism, Monarchism, Montanism, Arianism, etc.

Questions about historical “proof”

How does this prove the Great Apostasy?

What is the source?

Summary

Step FourStick to the historicity of the

Great Apostasy

Benefits of Step Four

Levels the “playing field”

Tower of Babel is almost completely eliminated and now true dialog may occur

Clears the ecclesiastical “smoke”

Odds and Ends

Why do Mormons accept the Bible?

• Scriptures written btwn 40 and 110

• Council of Nicea 325

• Councils of Hippo 393 and Carthage 397

• King James Bible 1611 and 1885

Can you prove the Trinity?

Theological Belief vs. Historical Event

Can you prove the Resurrection?

Extra-Biblical historical evidence for the life and events of Jesus

Christ’s life, and the “movement” he left behind

Appeal to Catholic Teachings

If there was a Great Apostasy, then the Mormon Church may be the true church

of Jesus Christ. This would mean that the Roman Catholic pope is a false leader and

the Roman Catholic Church is not the divine institution it claims to be.

The Great Apostasy was a process and not an event

Example - building of a house.

The Mormon “Golden Parachute”

Sharing of his/her testimony

9/11/2001

I believe the Mormon believes his/her testimony is true.

I, however, do not believe what s/he is testifying to is true.

Should I read the Book of Mormon?

Accusations of Anti-Mormonism

I have not said anything negative about:• Joseph Smith

• Book of Mormon

• Mormon Church and her teachings

Why is it important to dialog with Mormons?

Mormons are not Christians

~ 60,000 Missionaries Worldwide

Mormons do not have the sacraments

Pop Quiz - 4 Step Plan

1. Focus discussion on the Great Apostasy

2. Remove Mormon Literature

3. Remove Sacred Scripture

4. Stick to the historicity of the Great Apostasy

BE CAREFUL !!!

You are dealing with friends and neighbors

Your job may be just to plant a seed

Jesus is the Savior of the world

Br. Jerome Cudden, OPfrjc@opwest.org

St Albert Priory5890 Birch Court

Oakland, CA 94618

Contact Information

A Catholic Response To

Br. Jerome Cudden, O.P.

Mormon Evangelization