chandigarh 07 july 2013 8

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8 THE IDEA EXCHANGEJULY7, 2013 EXPRESS

MANOJC G: Nowthereis a

Naxalattackin Jharkhand, whichis underPresident’srule,comingdirectly undertheHomeMinistry. Do you think thepresentstrategyof tacklingNaxalitesis working,or doweneedto revisitit?In the last three or four years, wehave managed to get into their(Maoists’)core areas suchas Late-har. Allthe engagementthatis tak-ing place now is taking place intheir strongholds.So beit Lateharor Bastar, the CRPF or Army, theengagement is happening in theirstrongholds.Youcannothave a bigmilitary operation because wedon’t know whothe enemy is.Wegeta lotoftweetsaskingwhydon’t we let the Army go in, but whodo wetakeout? We have86battalionsof the CRPF in these states. We’vetried to move all our paramilitary forces intothe coreareas.

There are two strategies to re-moveus from thecore areas.Oneis to target soft targets, like they didin Chhattisgarh, politiciansornormal people.And thesecondisopening new fronts, like whatthey have done with the SP of Jharkhand. There is no greatNaxal problem in that area. Infact,thereis notevena singlebat-talionof the paramilitaryforcesinDumka. After this incident, wehave pulled out two battalionsandrushedthemto thisarea.

Ifyousee thestatisticsof2011, wehavehada hugedropin security personnel gettingkilledor ofNaxal violence. Overall,ifyou see2011, it was a far better year than the lastcoupleof years.

The other problem is all the

funds and the paramilitary forcesaregiven to differentstates. Every statehasa differentpolicyto tackleNaxalism. Whichever politicalparty is in power has its own way ofdealing.We don’t havea centralpolicy where Naxalism is con-cerned. So that is something wehave to adjust with the differentstate governments and work withthem.Butprimarily, ourtargetis tohit the top leadership. On theground,we areseeingthatthey arenotgettingthe kindof supportthatthey need. Secondly, the biggestproblemtheyarehavingisof armsand ammunition. That is the sup-plychainthat wehave managedtocutto acertainextent.

Wecan definitelydo better. Wecan have better coordinationamongcentralforces aswell aspo-

lice forces. In my opinion, mod-ernisation is in the kind of money that we have given to states thatareworst-affected.Afterthe unfor-tunate incidentin Chhattisgarh,re-

 viewmeetingswereheldin Raipur,

 which the Prime Minister himself attended, and at the Chief Minis-ters’ conference. Our priority isnow infrastructure developmentof theworst-affectedareas.I canun-derstand there is outrage at whathappened in Chhattisgarh and whathappened on the train in Bi-har, aswellas with theJharkhandSP, butit issomething that can’tbe wished away. We have a pro-gramme inplace.We willcontinueto have a hardline (policy) whereengagement is concerned, but we willtry todevelopinfrastructure intheseNaxal-affectedareas.

MANOJC G: Whatis your esti-mateof theCPI(Maoist)’sstrength?And whileyou talkedofdifferentstateshaving differ-entprogrammes,even theCon-gressand thegovernmenthavebeengiving mixedsignals.I thinkwe arecompletelyon boardonhowwe are totackleNaxalism.Where they are engaging withparamilitary forces and they arepickingup arms,we willtry tosub- jugatethem.As faras rehabilitatingtribalsis concerned—whichis ex-tremelyimportantand that’swhatpeople in the party also spokeabout—that is something we aretryingto do.We have givena lotof money. States were given 5,000kmof roadsin these areas.Wearetrying to make schoolsand hospi-tals.Weare monitoringthat devel-opment takes place in a time-boundmanner.

Theirnumericalstrengthis notsomethingI cangiveyou immedi-ately but it is not something thatlargethat itis alarming. Thepeople

at the top, the leaders, are very committed. Unfortunately, thekind ofmovementthat they haveinthe villages is very ruthless. Thatissomethingthatnever comesoutin the media. For example, the waythey tortureinformers.Thereisno hueandcry ifa tribalis killedbythe Naxalsand wehaveprovedthismanytimesthattheyusecivil-ians as human shields, including womenand children.But, ifthereisan encounter with the forces andsomebody dies, the paramilitary or the police forces are shown insuch poor light as if they are themainproblem.

COOMIKAPOOR:Therehasbeen a lotofcontroversyon theCBIimplicating anIB officer intheIshrat Jahanencounter.

Whatis your view?Do yoube-lievethattheIB shouldbe insu-lated? Wouldit bedemoralisedby suchaction?Firstofall,theCBIis inquiringinto

acaseof encounterthattookplace

in Gujarat, which is being moni-tored by the court. The CBI hasnamed an IB officer in thechargesheet. That is a completely different aspect. They have notaskedthe IBfor a sanction againsttheofficeryet.When theyask forasanction,wewill replyto thatques-tion atthattime.

 Yes,obviously, officersof theIBare goingto bea littleupset iftheirofficers are seen to be engaged infake encounters. The IB is a very, very good organisation and it hashelpedthis countryin many waysto counter many problems. But if there is enough proof, when theCBIcomesto us,we willexamineitand look at it from that point of  view. But it has been made politi-cal.The BJPseems tobe moreupsetthaneventhe IB.It isextremelyun-fortunate that a fake encountertook place.It isbeinginvestigatedbytheCBI,itis beingmonitoredby the court, so I don’t see why theBJPshould have anykindof prob-lem with that. And it has beenshown that there have been fakeencounters in Gujarat before. Infact, in the Sohrabuddin fake en-counter, they paid compensationtohimbeforethe courtevenruled.The BJP seems to get very jittery and always seems to react when-everthe campaigncommitteeheadcomes under any negativity in hisstate.He isreadyto take credit for Amul thoughDr Kurien did it. But wheneverany negativityhappens,they want towashhishandsofit.

SWARAJ THAPA:Theissueisthat theIBgivesoutalertsto various states regardingVVIPs

underthreat.Do you thinkthattheIB will nowthink twicebe-foresendingout alerts?We are jumping the gun. There ismorehypein thepublicwithpoliti-cal parties getting into the fray.There has been no demand fromthe CBI about the prosecution of anyIB officer. Whentheyask usforsanction,theywillhaveto comeup

 with reasons and proof. The min-

istry will take a view on it and actaccordingly. For any governmentofficer,ifit isproved that heis doingsomethingwrong, thenactionwillbetaken.

 APPUESTHOSE SURESH: UnlikeintheWest, thereis noover-sightfor intelligence agen-cies.EvenI&B MinisterMan-ishTewari oncemovedaprivate Billfor bringingthe IBunder an oversightbody of Parliament.

Unfortunately, over the pastfew years, we have been disman-tling our own organisations, be itthe IB or RAW. And we give lesscreditto thekindof worktheyhavebeen doing. Nobody comes toknow of the good work they do.Buttheflawsof these organisationsaremagnifiedand everybodytalksabout them. There is a check andbalance as far as our intelligenceagencies are concerned. They re-port tothe ministry andtheHomeSecretary and the Home Ministerand there is action that we take.Thereis asysteminplace.

RAHUL TRIPATHI: TheIB’srolehasbeen questionednot only intheIshratJahan case,butintheSadiq Jamaland Malegaonblastcases,wherenine people werearrested andthen re-leased. Doyou thinkthere isaneedto revisetheSOPs?Malegoan was investigatedby theMaharashtraPoliceandSIT. TheIB wasgetting intoterror cases,whichitwas notmeantto because itwas

busywithother things.That iswhy 

 we formed the NIA. The NIA isnowlookingat allthese cases.It isbecause of the NIA that in theMalegaon case, the right people werefound. It is a nascent agency,butsofar IthinktheNIA hasmadeprogress.

RAHUL TRIPATHI: TheUPgov-ernment hadrecentlyaskedsome 20casestobe quashedagainst Muslims, whichtheHigh Courtstayed.Is theCen-tralgovernmentdoingany-thingbecausethesepeople werecaughtunder scheduledoffences?I think itis extremely unfortunateif terrorism and politics are mixedand I think anyone should treadaway fromthatpath.Asfar aswhatthe UP government has done, theHigh Court has already passed a judgment onthat. I haveno ideaof any intimation that we have re-ceivedin thosecases.

RAHUL TRIPATHI:Whatis hap-pening onthe Telanganapro-posal?Bifurcationof statesis anextremely sensitivething.As faras Telanganais concerned, the Congress hasbeen committed on the issue of smaller states. We appointed theSrikrishnaCommitteewhichcameout with six proposals. Before wetakeanydecision,we would like allstakeholders to be on board. Wearetryingour best totakeallideasforward. We were very close to abreakthrough.In thelast fewdays,there has been some forwardmovement.In fact, theCongress it-self has taken the initiative. The

general secretary was in AndhraPradesh recently.

DKSINGH: ComingbacktotheNaxalattackin Chhattisgarh,theneedleof suspicionispointing towards someseniorCongress leaders.When I went toRaipur forthefirsttime after the Prime Minister, So-niaGandhi andRahul Gandhi hadgone, there were rumours amongthe press.Politicalparties wereput-tingtheseideas.The NIAis investi-gatingthe caseandtheyareinvesti-gatingall angles.I think itis more of a rumour, but we will wait till theNIAcomesout with itsfullreport.

MANOJC G: Isthe NIAprobingthepossibleinvolvementof Congress leaders?

No, it is not probing any rumoursabout Congress leaders being in- volved. It is probing why it took place,howit took place,wasthereaconspiracy.

SHYAMLAL YADAV: You arefrom

UP. Whatresultsare youex-pecting in2014?WilltheCon-gressretain allitsLok Sabhaseats?To behonestwith you,in 2009, theresults surprised me. I neverthought we would get 22 seats. IthinkUttarPradeshis goingto sur-prise me again. I think we are go-ingtobeatthatmarkthistime.

SWARAJTHAPA: Thereis agen-erational shiftthathas hap-pened in theCongress.Youarealsopartof thatchange.How doyou assess thechange, theleadership ofRahul Gandhi?Istheresome tussle withtheoldCongress, theold ideas and values?Not only the Congress but the whole co untry is going throughchange. 2014 is going to see thelargest number of people under30 as voters and the whole de-mography of the country haschanged. The demographicchange is going to be reflected inthe politics of this country. Fortu-nately, we’ve managed to bringabout a change, the engineer of  whichwas Mr Rahul Gandhiwhobrought in a large number of  younger people. It has been hisendeavour to getyoungerpeopleinvolved in politics. The oldergeneration, for example, cannotunderstand that there is some-thing known as social media. Infact,even me—Iam caughtin be-tweenthe youngerand older gen-erations. I think leadershiphas totake the old and the young to-gether, experience andthe energy of the younger lot to come out

 with policiesthat encompassall.

SWARAJ THAPA: Whatabout Rahul Gandhi asprime minister?Obviously, theCongress wouldliketo see him as prime minister oneday,butI thinkthejobhe doesnowisfar moreimportant andfar moredifficult. He is trying to build theCongress in states where it is notdoing well. I think that is some-thing he has taken upon himself.When children of businessmencome intobusiness,they tell themto start at the floor shop. EvenRahul Gandhi started doing thesame thing.He startedright atthebottom.

DILIPBOBB: NarendraModi is veryactiveon socialmedia,

RahulGandhi isnot.Why isheso reluctant?The Congress party and the lead-ership have now started using so-cial media and we see far more

peoplecomingin. We have a com-

munications department withintheAICC. Andhe(Rahul)does notbelieve socialmediais forbuildinga person.It isfor buildingthe party. You askedabout the otherperson.He is building himself. So that is where the difference is. It is notabout I,me, myself. It isabouttheparty you serve and the ideology thepartyrepresents.Nobodyis big-ger than the party. Some people wantto be biggerthanthe party.

DKSINGH: Howdifferentis theincumbentHome Ministerfromhis predecessor?Wearefollowingthe samepoliciesthat were being carried out by Mr P Chidambaram. In fact, hetook some great initiatives withintheministryandthatis somethingmyministerhas notonlyfollowedbutimprovedupon.

DKSINGH: What doyou thinkof NarendraModi beingin chargeofUP?Willit make adifferenceif he contestsfrom Varanasi orLucknow?Ithinkthetotalfocusof theBJPonone manshows theirdesperation.That he is the magic that is goingtomaketheBJPwin.Howarethey going to win in India? NarendraModi. How are they going to winin UP? Narendra Modi. So obvi-ously, itshows thattheyhave noth-ing to offer to the people of thiscountry. Andit is extremelyunfortu-nate that after Amit Shah, they need NarendraModi also to cometo UP. You canunderstandthat theBJP is bereft of ideas of how totackle the coming general elec-tions.I don’tthinkNarendraModi

contesting from Varanasi or from Ahmedabad is going to have any impact on thepoliticsof UP.

MANOJC G: In Uttarakhand,thereis a perception thattheChiefMinisterwoke uplatetothetragedyandthattheHomeMinistry conductedthe opera-tions.Whatis your view?Nobody expected the kind of calamity that struck Uttarak-hand. Asfar asthe responsegoes, we tried to do whatever possible.But in hindsight, it seems thatmore could have been done. But we have learnt our lesso ns. TheITBP, the NDRF and the armedforces did a marvellous job. Ithink why the government wasnot seen as actually doing some-thing is because the government

had ordered the best people tocarryout the rescue operations.

(Transcribedby Dipankar

Ghoseand Shalini Narayan)

’We have been dismantling our organisations, beit IB or RAW...When CBI asks for sanction (againstIB officer), they will have to come upwith proof’

“The focus ofthe BJP ononemanshows theirdesperation. That he is themagic that is going to make the BJP win. How are they going towinin India? Narendra Modi.How are theygoingto winin UP? Narendra Modi.Soobviously, it shows that they have nothingtoofferto thepeople of this country. I don’tthink 

Narendra Modi contesting fromVaranasi or from Ahmedabad is going to have any impacton the politicsof UP”

RAVIKANOJIA

In this IdeaExchange, Ministerof State for HomeAffairs R P N Singhspeaks about theneed for a central

Naxal strategy andthe controversyover the IB officer’salleged role in theIshrat Jahanencounter. Thesession wasmoderated bySpecialCorrespondentManoj C G