professor j.p. “sandy” ogilvy & sudeb basu, esq
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Externship Demographics
Across Two Decades
With Lessons for Future Surveys
Professor J.P. “Sandy” Ogilvy&
Sudeb Basu, Esq.
Slide 2 of 22
Schools with ExternshipsABA-
accredited law schools
Schools respondi
ng to survey
Schools with
externship
program
Schools with for-
credit externshi
p
2007-2009
200 190 190 190
2002-2003
186 112 108 N/A
1992-1993
176 68 N/A 58
Slide 3 of 22
Student Involvement in
ExternshipsMin Max Averag
eMedian Mode
Numbers of students: 2007-2009 Survey (2011 ABA-LSAC)
Full-time (7) (621) 119 (118)
79 (104) 125 (33)
Part-time
(1) (637) 35 (28) 15 (16) 7 (8)
Estimated percentages:
Full-time 20% 13% 21%
Part-time
20% 9% 4%
CSALE - All students
11-20% 1-10%
CSALE voluntary participation over J.D. career: 26-30% (median)
Slide 4 of 22
Max Externship Credits
CSALE Mode: 12; next most common: 6, 8, 10, 15
Max derived from ABA Standards: ~18 No other 305(a) activities Assumes minimum permitted total instruction time
Related metric (CSALE): Repeat(s) of same course Usual term of one semester 44% permit repeat(s) Majority of the 44% cap at one or two repeats
Range Average Median
2(?) to 21 12 12
Slide 5 of 22
Externship Course Credits
(616 courses 1426)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 150
50
100
150
200
250
300
350
Slide 6 of 22
Low, Mid, and High Credit Externship
Courses (%)
1-3 4 1-6 5-6 7-150
10
20
30
40
50
60
70
80
90
92-9302-0307-09CSALE
Mid Credit
High Credit
Low& Mid Credit
Low Credit
Slide 7 of 22
Remote Placements
Yes / Maybe: 68% (358 of 528 courses) Some “yes” responses qualified, e.g.
60 only in summer 6 emphasized ability to conduct site visit 27 limited to in-state, Tex-Mex border, etc.
Courses responding
“NO”
Other courses
responding
# schools
2007-2009
32% of 528 68% 63
2002-2003
75% of 270 25% 44
Slide 8 of 22
Organization Types
See ABA Standard 305 & Interpretation 305-3
80% (431 of 540 courses) with restriction Most common is to “not-for-profit” organization CSALE: 88.6% of courses with restriction
Not-for-profit (38%) Government (33.5%) No private firms (21.8%) Judicial (19%)
2002-2003: 81% (231 of 269 courses) with restriction
No restriction as to organization type 33 schools, cf. 15 (2002-2003) 20% of courses, cf. 14% (2002-2003)
Slide 9 of 22
Subject Matter or Setting Restrictions
80% of course names, cf. 59% in 2002-2003
CSALE data (some overlap with “organization type”): Judicial (11.4%) Public interest organization (7.9%) Government (7.4%) Criminal prosecution (6.9%) General litigation (5.8%) Criminal defense (5.3%)
Slide 10 of 22
Hours of Fieldwork Required for One
Credit
1 2 3 40
20
40
60
80
100
120
140
160
92-9302-0307-09
MAX
AVERAGE
MIN
MEDIAN
Slide 11 of 22
Use of Classroom Component, vs. Total
Course Credits
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 150
50
100
150
200
250
300
350
#courses# with classGap (#)% with class
Total # of Courses
Percentage w/ classroom
Gap
# of courses with classroom component
Slide 12 of 22
Classroom Component
vs. Course Credits
1-4 5-6 7-10 11-150
10
20
30
40
50
60
70
80
90
100
92-9302-0307-09
See 2005 ABA Standard 305(e)(7) (“other means of guided reflection”)
Slide 13 of 22
Number of SeparateClass Credit(s)
Awarded
1 2 3 4 5 60
10
20
30
40
50
60
70
80
90
100
665 courses total490 with a classroom component230 awarding separate classroom credits
Number of separate classroom credits awarded
“Substantive law classwith field component”
% Average&
Median
Mode
Slide 14 of 22
Class Time (hrs/semester)
Average Median Mode0
5
10
15
20
25
30
35
92-93 (56 schools)02-03 (241 courses)07-09 (430 courses)
Slide 15 of 22
Topical Use of Class Time Ranked
2007-2009
CSALE 2002-2003
Lawyering skills 1 4 3
Substantive / procedural law
2 1 1
Student reflection 3 3 4
Professional roles & responsibility
4 2 5
Other activities 5 1
Legal process 6 6
Legal institutions 7 6
Career choices 8 81 = Most frequent use of class time8 = Least frequent use of class time
Slide 16 of 22
Classroom Teaching Methods by Time in
Use2007-2009 2002-2003
Lecture / discussion
1 1
Other Methods 2 2
Student facilitation
3 4
Student presentations
4 3
Guest speakers 5 51 = Most frequently used teaching method5 = Least frequently used teaching method
Slide 17 of 22
Instructional MaterialsRanked
2007-2009
2002-2003
1992-1993
Compiled materials
1 1
Other materials 2 5
Published text 3 3 1
Both text & compiled materials
4 2
No materials 41 = Most frequently used instructional material5 = Least frequently used instructional material
Slide 18 of 22
Journaling
Credits Mean Median Mode Range
1-4 16 (9.49) 14 14 1-65 (1-50)
1-6 16 (10) 14 (12) 14 1-65 (1-50)
5-6 13 (11.5) 14 14 1-65 (1-16)
7-10 15 (11.8) 13 (14) 14 3-65 (5-14)
11-15 21 (13.7) 14 14 2-65 (3-35)
• 07-09 data (any differing 02-03 data)• About two-thirds of externship courses require journaling
(02-03, 07-09, and CSALE agree)
Slide 19 of 22
Grading – Courses with Class
Component
Pass/Fail Letter/Number Pass/Fail Letter/Number Pass/fail Letter/numberFieldwork Classroom Both
0
50
100
150
200
250
300
350
400
450
02-0307-09
02-03: 240 courses07-09: 490 courses
Slide 20 of 22
Externship Faculty Status
1 2 3 4 50%
10%
20%
30%
40%
50%
60%
02-0307-09
Tenure-track Adjunct
Long-termK
Short-termK
Other
Tenured
N/A
Slide 21 of 22
Administrative Support
1 2 30
10
20
30
40
50
60
70
02-0307-09
Secretary
Other
StaffCoordinator
Faculty
Admin
Slide 22 of 22
Evaluation of Courses
Student Evals
Site Visits Other SE & SV SE & Other SV & Other All three0%
10%
20%
30%
40%
50%
60%
70%
80%
90%
100%
02-0307-09
Slide 23 of 22
Use of Site Visits vs. Course Credit(s)
1-3 1-4 5-6 7-10 11-150%
10%
20%
30%
40%
50%
60%
70%
80%
90%
100%
02-0307-09
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