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STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA
J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION
OH 657/9
Full transcript of an interview with
JOHN EARLE
on 6 January 2003
By Karen George
Recording available on CD
Access for research: Unrestricted
Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study
Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from the State Library
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OH 657/9 JOHN EARLE
NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT
This transcript was created by the J. D. Somerville Oral History Collection of the State Library. It conforms to the Somerville Collection's policies for transcription which are explained below.
Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that it is a record of the spoken word and reflects the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. The State Library is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the interview, nor for the views expressed therein. As with any historical source, these are for the reader to judge.
It is the Somerville Collection's policy to produce a transcript that is, so far as possible, a verbatim transcript that preserves the interviewee's manner of speaking and the conversational style of the interview. Certain conventions of transcription have been applied (ie. the omission of meaningless noises, false starts and a percentage of the interviewee's crutch words). Where the interviewee has had the opportunity to read the transcript, their suggested alterations have been incorporated in the text (see below). On the whole, the document can be regarded as a raw transcript.
Abbreviations: The interviewee’s alterations may be identified by their initials in insertions in the transcript.
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Discrepancies between transcript and tape: This proofread transcript represents the authoritative version of this oral history interview. Researchers using the original tape recording of this interview are cautioned to check this transcript for corrections, additions or deletions which have been made by the interviewer or the interviewee but which will not occur on the tape. See the Punctuation section above.) Minor discrepancies of grammar and sentence structure made in the interest of readability can be ignored but significant changes such as deletion of information or correction of fact should be, respectively, duplicated or acknowledged when the tape recorded version of this interview is used for broadcast or any other form of audio publication.
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J.D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION, STATE
LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA: INTERVIEW NO. OH 657/9
Interview with Mr John Earle recorded by Karen George at Seacombe Gardens,
South Australia, on 6th
January 2003 for the Adelaide City Council Balfour’s Oral
History Project.
TAPE 1 SIDE A
This is an interview with John Earle being recorded by Karen George for the
Adelaide City Council’s Balfour’s Oral History Project. The interview is taking
place on 6th
January 2003 at Seacombe Gardens in South Australia. First of all
I’d like to thank you, John, for agreeing to be involved with this project and
agreeing to an interview. Can we start by you telling me your full name?
It’s John Leonard Earle.
Whereabouts were you born, John?
It was somewhere in Unley.
What’s your date of birth?
Seventh of the second 1950.
Can you tell me a little bit, perhaps, about your parents? I understand your dad
was also in the cooking area?
Yes. He’s done a lot of things through his life. He was a shearers’ cook. He went
overseas in the Army and he’d worked for Kidman, the cattle baron – so he tells me,
or told me – and he had a property over in the West Coast, and he was married twice,
you know, so like before the War and also to my Mum. And when he came back
from the War cooking was what he knew so he got a job in – what is it? – Daws
Road1. Then he transferred to the Royal Adelaide Hospital and I thought, well, that
would be a very good job to get into. But it sort of come down to it, at that stage in
the government, they wouldn’t allow father and son to work together. So he knew a
few people and he got me a job in one of the bakeries. At the time it was Cowley’s,
and it was down on Cross Road, and it was a small place, and I worked there till
about Easter and then – – –.
How old would you have been then? Where did you go to school, for a start?
1 Daws Road Repatriation Hospital.
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Oh, three or four different places. Started at Westbourne Park, then Colonel Light
Gardens, then Magill, then – at the time it was Wellington Road, but now it’s called
Maylands Primary School, and then when I got too old for that I was transferred to
Flinders Street which is no longer in operation. And when I’d got to the required age
I left school. (laughs)
Did you then – is that the thing you’d always wanted to do, to be a cook like your
dad, or had you other ideas what you wanted to do?
Well, I suppose in hindsight I think gardening might have been quite good too, but
with cooking you sort of – you can mess around with different flavours and that, and
it’s sort of making something – doing a good job, and knowing that you’ll achieve
something that is really special. It’s sort of like you can achieve a standard like that,
you’re sort of – that’s applicable with Balfour’s because that’s what they had strived
for for the length of time that they’d been running. That’s part of the reason why I
wanted to be a cook, because I sort of could – I know what I like. (laughter)
So tell me about – what were you doing at Cowley’s when you first started out
there as a cook?
Well, I used to help the person that made the yeast, used to be his – ‘Weigh this’ or
‘Measure this’ or ‘Go and get this’. And then, after he’d finished with what he
needed to be done, then I’d go and wash all the – go to the scullery, or some would
call it ‘washroom’. It seemed very hard for a young lad or that, just washing all
these big containers. It sort of seemed very monumental. That was – I think if I’d
stayed there longer I would have – if I’d stayed there, say, twelve months, I would
have got moved on to something else. Then there would be another young lad doing
the same thing I would doing and I’d be probably giving him heaps, and so on.
So how did it come about that you left there?
Well, I had an industrial accident. Not being experienced with – I was cutting a tin
of baker’s syrup, which goes in some of the yeast goods, and when I opened this tin,
which was – in the old terms it was seventy pounds which, for a young fellow, was
quite heavy – and I’d got this tin open and it was fairly jagged, and the tin slipped.
But not knowing that if it had slipped you let it go, but I decided, ‘Oh, I can’t waste
that,’ so I caught it. So what happened? It cut my fingers open and one of the things
with the insurance, when you got better they let me go. I know, but this was the way
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things worked in those times. So I was lucky enough to – went around to Myer’s
bakery and I also applied at Balfour’s, but for some reason they said at Myer’s, ‘Oh,
you’ve got a job. When can you start?’
So was that in the Myer’s department store?
No.
No, it was a different – – –?
No. The bakery was where the old Ellis’s Bakery was, it was where the Embassy
Ballroom is – well, was. Well, still is.
Is that Grenfell Street?
Gouger Street. And it was the bottom – basement and ground floor – and a little bit
of the stuff was up on the first floor. And they had a very antiquated lift and it was
sort of like hand operated. (sound of door closing) And you used to have to wash
fruit, wash the vegies for the pasties, and in the morning I’d also have to cook
Kitchener buns and at a certain time clean out the fat things that I’d cooked the
Kitcheners in, and also had to keep the guy that was making the yeast happy. And
also I was working on pasties there, and they had a different setup. They had sort of
you’d roll out pastry and you would get an ice cream scoop in a big bowl and sort of
fill all these up, and then you’d sort of bend these over and you had about eight of
these, and then you’d just pick them out and put them on trays, when the same
process would happen. And also I worked on their pies. They had two separate
machines, one which stamped the pies out with a – deposit the pie meat – or no, I
think that was for fruit pies. The pies, they had sort of framework, and you sort of
put pie meat in and then rolled out pastry on and then sort of get the trimmings off,
and that was how we did the pies.
So it was pretty much all by hand, then, in those days?
Yes. Yes. Yes. Myer’s used to make quite good yeast. There was a young
doughman – and he works for Balfour’s now, he’s Barry Trotter – he used to make
wonderful yeast. However, that’s a long story.
So how did it come about that you left there and ended up at Balfour’s, then?
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Well, for some reason I heard one of the bosses say – I think he was going on
holidays, and he said to his other partner, ‘I don’t want to see him here when I get
back.’ So I don’t know what the story was. And I was dismissed, and so one of my
mates took me around to Balfour’s, went for an interview, and I was only out of –
had one day off and the hiring person come round and asked me did I still want a job
there. And he said, ‘You can start,’ sort of like the next day. So I came in and I had
a job there for all these years.
It’s up to nearly – what? – thirty? This is 1968 that you started, was it?
Yes, roughly. Yes.
What do you remember about your first day on the job?
Well, I was brought down to where I was supposed to be working, introduced to the
ladies that I’d be working with, and I was shown what I was supposed to do.
Which was what?
Sort of working on a biscuit machine that was stamping out bits of pastry for all
these different lines that we were making at the time, like custards, custard tarts, fruit
pies, some of the older things that we don’t make no more.
Like what sorts of things?
Almond tarts, fruit creams. I think those are the only things that we don’t make now.
We still make macaroons, still make custards, fruit pies. We still make jelly tarts.
We don’t make blackcurrant tarts, we don’t make raspberry, apricot and lemon tarts
– they’re too fiddly now.
In what way were they fiddly?
Oh, I suppose I don’t think they were really fiddly. It’s more that people’s idea of
things have sort of changed, you know, they just don’t want a raspberry or apricot or
lemon tart any more; they want something more adventurous. And on these different
tart machines we used to do mince pies and also we were making fruit Christmas
puddings on them and fruit mince pies. And I think on a good day it was roughly
three to six racks a day, and that was a lot of hard work as well as everything else we
were doing.
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So can you describe that machine – is that still operating now or is there
something new?
Oh, no, no.
What did it do?
It was virtually an old biscuit machine. You’d probably see them in a very old
factory. They’re about that long –
So that’s – what? – a metre or a bit longer?
– yes. The type we had, it didn’t have sort of a lever, but Myer’s bakery had one and
they used to make biscuits on it, because virtually what we were using was a biscuit
machine.
So what would you be doing? Feeding pastry in, or what – – –?
Yes. Put pastry in the hopper and you have adjustments, whatever you were making
at the time, and you’d have your trays on the side and it sort of adjusted to a certain
thickness, and when you knew you had your right thickness you’d pick up the pastry,
put them in the foils and then put them back in the rack ready for girls to stamp them
out, and then when you’ve finished with them they’d go into the ’fridge for the next
day. And then, when all that’s finished, you’d clean up. And with certain days
you’d either be sorting out trays or collecting the rubbish, and another day you’d be
helping washing the floors. We were very clean in those days. Oh, we still are.
And then they thought this was getting too busy for them, so they got another
machine which was called the Mateline, and that’s seen the demise of these Banker
machines which we used to have a perfect product every time and there wasn’t very
much waste. But got a bit disgusted when you could see all the waste. But these
sort of machines, if you get your hand in the way and the die comes down you can
get your hand caught, and one of these days, this particular day, one of the girls
happened to get her hand caught with the big flan die on. Yes. And it’s sort of like
one of the unfortunate things that happened, and you could see the anguish on her
face. And there was still a bit of heat in the die at the time. So you sort of had to
manoeuvre – move the die up so that they could get the person’s hand out. And I
think she came out all right with that.
That’s the Mateline machine you’re talking about?
8
No, no.
It was the old – – –.
This was on one of these small ..... machines.
Oh, the old – oh, okay.
Yes. Actually, a woman got her hand caught in the Mateline machine too, and you
ever heard a pig squeal, she squealed like, and you could see her hand caught, and
this was sort of a big cylinder and every so often there was a band and she had her
fingers under the band. And I can’t remember how they got her out of that, but I
think they just cut the metal band to get her to release, because there was no way of
moving it back because the pain would have – so I think they just cut it very quickly,
and that sort of got her out.
So were there many accidents like that in those early days with the kind of
machinery you were using?
Oh, some of it – no, not really. We sort of just knew the limitations. You sort of just
watched yourself what you’re doing and you seemed to be more aware, and there
didn’t seem to be very many accidents. It was just when you wasn’t concentrating
on what you’re doing. It seemed the safer you try and make machinery there’s
always some way that someone can find a way of – if the machine, you say a
machine’s safe enough, someone will find a way of saying it’s not safe, and then
there seems to be an accident because they’ve gone that little bit further. And some
of the things we used to get away with you cannot get away with now. It just would
not be – the safety people would close a big company like that down by now if we
tried to do what we did in the old days.
Can you give me an example of what you mean?
No, I really can’t. I could, but as I’m still working – – –. It’s sort of what you can
get away with. Because also I’m on Safety Committee I can’t really divulge what
was done because it’s sort of on a ‘need to know’ basis.
So can you say that, in general, the safety regulations in the factory changed over
the years from when you started in ’68 to now?
Oh, yes. We had to change because we had to comply with the rules that were set.
If we didn’t – – –. We just had to go by the regulations and make the machinery safe
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according to the rules. And (coughs) many of the old machines just wouldn’t pass
because – (coughs) excuse me.
That’s all right. (interviewee drinks, returns glass to table) So tell me a little bit
about what the factory was like when you first – where did you work initially
when you went in there?
I worked in the cellar of the old part of the bakery, and – now, where did we come
in? We came in, it was sort of like a side entrance. It’s one of the closed doors. We
virtually entered straight into the bakery and then sort of went up to the change
rooms which was up where the decorating section is, and it was over in one corner.
And, well, you’d get changed there, and at that time we didn’t have to wear hats. If
you wore a hat that was your choice, but I don’t think there was any more hair that
was in the products as what there were with what we covered up, you know? But it
seems to be that ‘Balfour’s is a big company; let’s see what we can get out of them.’
And that’s what – people still have a go and say, ‘Oh, we got a bit of hair,’ or
something. Doesn’t seem right because we do have – well, you’ve seen the hats we
have.
I think you said also you used to have a big beard, did you?
Oh yes, yes. And it was – if I could find the photograph, I’ve got one with me in my
whites with the beard on. It’s in amongst my stuff somewhere. But I still had it for
my wedding, so that would surpass as well.
So was it still – you did have to wear white – was there a uniform?
Yes, we still had to wear white, you still had to maintain your uniform to reasonable
hygiene. (tape ends)
END OF TAPE 1 SIDE A: TAPE 1 SIDE B
[So was it still – you did have to wear white – was there a uniform?
Yes, we still had to wear white, you still had to maintain your uniform to reasonable
hygiene.] You had to look clean and that. And when you see some of them getting
round now you sort of think, ‘Jeez, how can you get away with not looking clean?’
But, well, I suppose that’s a sign of the times as well now.
What was the discipline like in those days on those kinds of things if they weren’t
clean?
10
Well, I don’t know what discipline there was with that because I never got chatted
on how my uniform was. It must have been reasonable because I never got spoken
to about it.
Did you ever make any mistakes in those early days that you got picked up on?
Oh, yes, I did get threatened. I was asked, ‘Do you want your job? Do you want to
keep your job?’ And that sort of brought me down a few pegs very quickly. Sort of
got me very sort of scared, so I would say you knew where you stood. And they
were tough bosses, but quite fair.
Who was the boss, who was your immediate boss when you started?
Was it the foreman was Laurie Clayton? And supervisor was, was it Clarrie Gurr?
And was it – and one of the bosses was Mr Wauchope – no, Mr Balfour. And I’m
not sure – he didn’t have a skerrick, he didn’t have any hair on his head at the time.
And you could not pull the wool over any of the big bosses that owned the place,
because they would ask you a question and you’d try to tell them any bullshit they
could sort of say, ‘This, this and this.’ And they virtually knew what the answer was
before you even answered the question. And you couldn’t tell them just anything
because they knew how the factory was supposed to be running.
Did you see much of Mr Balfour on the factory floor? Did he come through?
Yes. That was one of the great things about it. He had a visible presence and that
was carried over when the Wauchopes were in charge. And it does seem a shame
that it did go – they went under, because a lot of the problem was they listened to too
many people that got the wrong information, and they listened to what they wanted
to hear. And unfortunately the place sort of went downhill. And I think we were
very lucky that it revived as well as it did, twice! (laughs) And part of the way
through it they were scared of certain competition. They put us on night shift.
Although the money was good, but it was seven years of – you would sort of think it
was seven years for nothing, and you were missing out on your night sleep. You
would think it was seven years of hell.
What were your hours when you first started?
(sound of door closing) Oh, Jeez – I think it was four o’clock on Tuesday to
Thursday, two o’clock on Fridays, say about three o’clock on Mondays, but I’m not
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sure about that. That’s going back (sighs) so many years – it’s like a couple of
decades. I know I couldn’t catch a bus in; I was riding a pushbike in at the time
because there was no other mode of transport around.
So when you went to night shift how did your hours change? When did you start
then?
I was at half past ten till very early in the morning. I can’t think of what hour
knocking off time was. It was either half past six or seven o’clock. Something early
like that. There was half an hour off for meal break, so it meant it was early in the
morning that you knocked off, and you would go home and try and sleep and you
seemed to sleep the day away. (laughs) And you didn’t seem to – you got up for tea
and watched a little bit of TV and then you went off to work and done it all again.
So I get the idea you didn’t enjoy that particularly?
Oh – no, not really. No.
You said, I think, when we first met that that was for some particular promotion
or something – Bake Fresh, was it?
Yes, it was one of – it was called Fresh Bake. They were frightened of one of the
other competitors, I think. It wasn’t Vili’s; it was one of the other bakeries that they
were frightened of at the time. I think it’s gone out of business, anyway. And I
think we asked the powers that be at the time, ‘How long will we be doing night
shift?’ And they said, ‘As long as it takes.’ So evidently they were prepared to keep
going because they thought they had plenty of money to throw at this to try and
catch the corner of the market. Also a lot of people thought if we stood up to the
people that had made the decision, we would have still been doing early morning and
the place mightn’t have gone under, but hindsight is a good thing.
So was the idea to make the products fresher by cooking at night, or what was the
point?
Yes, yes, it was like you made it that night and when it was baked it would be
packed a few hours later, and then it would go out to the customer. They’d think if
we could get it made a lot earlier and get it to the customer at a certain time, it would
be a lot fresher. But I think because we ended up with financial problems they put
most of us on day shift and we ended up with day rates. Because we started at a
certain time we didn’t end up with the penalty rates. I think that’s still in our award,
12
but they’re sort of not willing to start us at a certain time, because that would still be
there but we now have enterprise bargaining, so I’m not sure if we still have our
penalty rates. I hope so. (laughter)
Well, taking you back to those early years, you said I think that you worked in
that tart machine and that kind of thing for quite some time when you first
started.
Yes. Twelve and a half years. Yes. Oh, they were good times. After a while it
seemed to get boring. (sound of chainsaw outside the building) I was disappointed
because, being on that for so long, it never really gave me a chance at anything else.
Was that usual? Did people sort of come in and remain in the same place?
Oh yes, yes. Some did. If you didn’t feel you were good enough they would put you
on something else to give you a go somewhere else. I seemed to have the grit and
determination to stay on what I was doing, and it sort of come that I was
disappointed because I wasn’t given a go at anything else.
What was the atmosphere like in that little area you worked in in those days?
It was sort of like a little family. It was – what was it? – about nine to ten women,
and true enough, you had your disagreements, but they would stir me up and I would
come in like the tide, get ‘Oh, Johnny, we’re only stirring, teasing you.’ They’d
want me to lift their jam or go and get them something, or lift their macaroons, or
whatever it was that they needed to be lifted at the time.
Was there a lot of heavy labour in those days? What was, for example, the jam in,
what was the jam stored in then?
Oh, big large tins, about this size, about that square.
We don’t have a camera so probably that’s – what? – about a foot, foot and a half,
foot square, or – – –?
About a kerosene tin –
Size.
– yes. Yes, kerosene or very large turps tin. And you used to have to open these
with a metal scraper and a bit of steel. And after that sort of got fairly efficient at
opening these without having any jagged edges. You learned to make it very neat.
So what were you using? Can you describe how you opened it?
13
It was like a metal – like a round piece of steel, and it was hollow in the centre and
the metal scraper, it had a blade, say, a foot long and the handle was about two
inches – now, what’s the modern for – – –?
Five centimetres, I suppose.
Yes. And you would get it in there to pierce it, and you’d go around this tin till you
got this lid off. And if the jam was too stiff you would mix it up with a big whisk,
and then you would tilt it over, lift it up and pour it into these hoppers.
Was it heavy?
Yes, I suppose those days it was. You sort of didn’t worry about it. I suppose in a
way you were impressing the ladies that were there. (laughter) I was young and you
didn’t worry about how heavy it was.
Were you the only man in that area, then, with all those women?
There was a bloke that would mix the shortpaste, and I’d be there – there was
another lady that would work on the machine with me, and when I’d go for my
fifteen minute break or a meal break, this bloke would take over. Otherwise he’d be
making the shortpaste. I also used to take the different racks up when I’d cleaned
up, I’d take the racks up to the ’fridge, make sure there was enough room in the
’fridge to fit all these racks, and you had to put the day and the date. So it was sort
of very early coding of what was made on the particular day. Now it’s gone. We
have what you call ‘shop floor papers’, so you can trace these, whatever product was
made on a particular day (chainsaw starts up again) and in the shortpaste, if there’s
any left over, that has a shop floor paper on it. Anything that’s left over that’s made
on that particular day, you have to fill out a shop floor paper for it, what it is, what
machine it comes from and whoever puts it in the ’fridge, and if there’s a code
number from any other papers that goes on that paper, either how many dishes or the
last of whatever product it was, how many trays, and then that is signed by the
person who’s going to put it in the ’fridge.
So there’s a lot more paperwork now than there was then, or – – –?
14
Yes. But it’s under this HACCP2 accreditation, which we fought very hard to get
and, providing we keep it, it’s many factories or organizations try very hard to get
this sort of accreditation.
What does it mean, the HACCP accreditation?
What does it mean? It’s very long-winded. They have a booklet on it. It’s sort of a
formula for doing all your different paperwork. It goes with hygiene, making sure
that the machinery is all clean and there’s no contamination, and even the clothing.
If some pastry or product is not up to standard, sort of like maybe a cook of pie meat
or something like that could be off, and having this paperwork done you can say,
‘Oh, this particular procedure wasn’t followed.’ You can trace it down and find out
why this has gone wrong with this particular product. It makes everyone
accountable. There is a particular booklet on what HACCP means.
That explains it for me what you mean.
It’s like getting the documentation, and you probably do that in your particular work
as well.
So once you’ve done that twelve and a half years in that same area, what
happened? Is that when the night shift came in that you moved, or what
happened?
No, no. I was transferred over to pastry section because they were making all these
different tart products on this machine called the Mateline, and it didn’t seem to
make it as well as what we were making, but, well, that’s progress. Because they
had plastic belts on this and the foils, they sort of stretched and they didn’t – when
they go to stamp out they were just a bit off-centre. But the new machine is a lot
more accurate. It’s computer-operated, too, so it doesn’t really like hot weather.
So this new machine replaced the Mateline, you’re saying? Right.
Yes.
So was the Mateline an automated machine, or – – –?
Oh, it was to a certain extent, but it did things in the rows of three. I suppose it was
quicker than what we could make the stuff, but all our things were rigid. Theirs
2 Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point (a quality control program).
15
wasn’t, and we might have been slower on our machinery but what they made up in
speed they lost in rejects, you know, stuff they threw away. And it was sort of like
research into certain machinery was buying the wrong machine for the job. But
that’s another story. And actually some other company’s bought that machine.
(laughs) Yes.
So what was your job on that machine? What did you have to do?
What, on the – – –?
Once you moved to the Mateline?
Oh, I wasn’t put on the Mateline. I got to work on pasties and I got to work on the
pie machine and also I was given a stint cooking pie meat and a few different jobs,
also mixed the veg for the pasties and that.
I’ll just turn the tape over and we’ll talk a bit more about those jobs.
END OF TAPE 1 SIDE B: TAPE 2 SIDE A
This is the second tape of an interview with John Earle being recorded by Karen
George for the Adelaide City Council’s Balfour’s Oral History Project. The
interview is taking place on the 6th
January 2003 at Seacombe Gardens in South
Australia. So you were talking about some of these different jobs that you were
doing – can you describe, I guess, each of those things as to what your job would
be?
Well – – –.
So you started with the pasties, you said.
Yes.
What were you doing?
Well, learn pasties – now, at the time I was like scrap person, so I’d be halfway
down, I’d be watching that the pasty would go through just right, and I’d have to
watch that the scrap didn’t build up too much. We had a table that you’d tip the
scrap on and you’d sort out to see there wasn’t any vegetable back in it, then you’d
take this container up to whoever was making up the slabs of pastry so they could
put it through the dough break.
So it was recycled in a sense?
16
Oh yes, yes. Didn’t waste too much. If the machine was working properly you
wouldn’t waste – you’d waste very little pastry, yes. And this table, it was a
standard table, and it had a bit where you had – a little part of the table was a bit
lower and this was on wheels, so we had the table there for years.
So that was all done manually, that sorting.
Yes. Then, at some later stage, I got to work on the dough break with a very good
baker. He was a funny character, too.
Who was that?
He was called – he was an old German, he was called Gunther Witt. And he used to
tell us that he was in the German navy, and he was on certain warships. It was quite
interesting what he’d done through the War. And there was another guy who ran the
pasty machine who was a Dutchman, George – I can’t remember his other name, but
it was George – and he was a funny character, too. I think they’re both passed away
now.
Were there many people from migrant backgrounds working in Balfour’s at that
time?
Oh yes, yes. There was quite a lot of Italian ladies. There’s not too many there now.
There’s quite a few New Australian men, sort of Maltese, Italian, English. Sort of a
very big melting pot. And there a was certain time that you knew what you – certain
time you were going to get out, and you all worked to get out. If one machine was
running a bit late you would go and help them out, but it doesn’t seem like that
happens now. It’s sort of ‘all for one and one for all’, but now it’s lost that sort of –
it seems to be everyone for themselves at the moment. It’s one of the things that is
lost and I don’t think they’re going to get that back.
Why do you think it’s been lost? How has that happened?
Well, we’ve lost some of our enthusiasm. We knew we were on a good wage at the
time and you didn’t really want to be there any longer than you really had to. But
you knew that you work hard. When there were holidays, like Christmas or New
Year, they would let you out either an hour or two, which they have started to do that
again. And I’m not sure what happens with that, but it is something maybe I
17
shouldn’t be saying, because it’s (pause) – no, I don’t think I should say any more
about – – –.
Yes, that’s fine, we can let that go. So tell me – you were talking a little bit about
that working together. Can you give me an example of what it was like in those
days?
Yes. There was a time we didn’t have – we would make Naps3 on – we’d put the
trays on a great big table and you’d roll pastry out. We’d use the pasty rolling pins
which – – –.
What’s a pasty rolling pin?
A big long one, a big long one. And you’d have two people, you’d go down one end
and all that, and you would have a couple of people with sort of hand rollers with all
spikes in, and you would go all over this pastry, put holes in the pastry, and then
you’d go down and cut these trays – where the trays joined you’d put a knife cut
through them. And then you would pick all these trays up and put them in racks,
then you’d repeat the process until you’ve done this, and then this would be nearly
the last job, and when all that’s done then you’d be able to clean up and pretty well
go home. And that would be, say, about a dozen, about a half a dozen people doing
that, and it’s surprising how quick that would end up being done.
So they’d come from different areas and help to finish that off, type of thing?
There’d be different people in the pastry area at the time. If you didn’t have a
particular job to do at the time, the foreman or leading hand or supervisor would say,
‘Oh, go and help So-and-so on such-and-such job.’ And you couldn’t say, ‘Oh, I
don’t want to do that.’ You’d say, ‘Yes, sir.’ And you would go and do it. You
mightn’t want to do it but you did it. And it sort of meant that you’d be able to get
out and get home within a reasonable time.
This pastry, you called it ‘Nap’ pastry – what does that stand for?
You know the vanilla slices? It’s used on those and – oh, what’s the other? It has
cake in it and sheets of pastry on top and on the bottom and has raspberry jam, cake
and pink icing on it. I can’t think of the product.
3 Napoleon cakes.
18
That’s all right.
But this pastry was used on that as well, and we still make that but, because it’s a
cake product, I’ve forgotten what it is.
That’s all right.
Napoleon.
Oh, Napoleon, right.
Yes. Yes, that’s what it is, yes.
So you’re talking about the foreman and the leading [hand] – who were your
immediate bosses when you were in that pastry area?
Oh. (pause)
It doesn’t matter if you can’t remember. I’m merely looking at what the
relationship was like between the bosses and the people on the floor, I guess.
Was it Chris Paz? He was in charge at that time, and we had another boss, he’s now
just an ordinary worker, he was called Ted Poach. He was a boss there. And we had
a few, was it, foremen – I can’t remember all the foremen. Yes, I can’t remember
them.
What sort of numbers were working in the pastry area? Would this be in the –
you started in ’68 so this would be twelve years on from when you started, would
it?
Yes. That would –
Makes it early ’80s.
– yes, that was when the new part of the factory was built. It was still young, it was
still relatively new, so I was transferred out there and that’s where I sort of like had
to re-learn a lot of other – different skills.
What kinds of things?
Well, till I went out there I hadn’t used a dough break before, and a dough break is a
machine where you roll pastry down from, say, something fairly thick to something a
lot thinner, and it sort of rolls it out and you put it onto rolling pins and you have
enough flour so it won’t stick. And then it can either be put onto either the pasty
machine or, if you’re using the small dough breaks for the pies, it’s usually put on a
19
big, long table and half the table would be used for pie bottom and the other half
would be used for pie top. And you had your particular flour bins for flour, and you
had to clean your own machines, and there were times that these dough breaks would
break down and it would put the rest of the machine behind, so they would have to
get them fixed and hope it didn’t take too long to get them fixed. It can be either a
snapped pin or anything that – if it’s something major they’d find you another dough
break to try and keep you going.
You said something when we first met about a wooden dough break. Was that
early in the – – –.
Yes. Oh yes, that was – I used to use that to roll out the pastry. When they mixed
the pastry for certain things they would roll it out, put it through and then roll it back
and then put it in the box, then it can be used somewhere else. Yes. That was a
fairly big dough break, actually. I don’t know where that – that would probably have
been scrapped many, many years ago, but it could even be a museum piece
somewhere. Yes. I don’t know where – like I said, I don’t know where that is.
So in that pastry area you said the different things you were doing. You also
talked about doing the vegetables and the meat for the pasties and the pies. Tell
me a bit about what you had to do for those jobs.
Well, with the pasties you would have – your potatoes would come in with the skins
and all that on, and the veg – like the turnips, carrots and pumpkin and all that –
would come in. You would have so much that you would have to put through the
potato cleaner, and that would be separate, and then in the morning it would be diced
up and then mixed up. You would add so much meat, so much seasoning – the
pepper and all of that – and starch – I forget the recipe – but to have it mixed up it
was – you would cough and splutter and they had salt and ascorbic acid and other
things in it. The pie one was just as bad because it had sort of a pepper thing in it
and I think that’s the problem with some of the allergies now, because of some of the
stuff you inhaled. But that was part of doing things.
What were you mixing that in, in those days?
Big mixing bowls – I mean, they called them ‘Z arm mixers’. They’re illegal now
because they’re too dangerous. (sound of distant lawn mower approaching) You
20
can get, say, an arm or yourself – something caught, part of your body caught in
there, it’s sort of like an accident waiting to happen.
When you say ‘big’, how big’s big compared to the height of a person, or
something?
Well, the bowl would be roughly the length of the table around –
About a metre and a half or something, two metres.
– yes, and it would be, say, about that deep. I don’t know how much pasty filling
would be in a bowl at the time, but it used to work out you used to – one of the
blokes, he used to put in extra potato and he would add extra and you seemed to be
doing about a half a bowl extra or certain days it would work out about a bowl extra
a day. And if you had a busy day by the end of the week you wouldn’t be doing as
many. It worked out great when you were doing promotions. Yes.
So were you loading that in manually?
No. We had a pump sort of situation where you’d take a bowl over to this pump and
you would pull it down into it and switch it on, and if it was mixed up properly it
would start sucking it up through the pipes and that. If you hadn’t mixed it properly
it sometimes would take time to, and you would get told a few choice words about
how good you’d done your job. So you made sure that you did your job properly,
(coughs) because in the long run, if you weren’t quick enough, it held up them
downstairs and it meant your job was going to be longer in the long run as well. So
you learnt to go fast and you made your job – you done a good job by doing it
quickly. And some of the people would be amazed what work we did do, what we
got through, in the old days.
Can you give an example of the workload, I suppose?
It wouldn’t be unusual to do about ten bowls of pasty a day, sometimes twelve a day,
and you also – and also there was a pie machine running and a sausage roll machine
running, so it would be other – and when the pie machine finished that wasn’t the
end of your job. You would have to start rolling pastry for the plate machine. You
would be doing plates, because you know the pasty machine would still be going,
and if the sausage rolls were finished they would have to help on plates or they
would have to start on the Naps. And it was everybody had to work in so that they
21
got finished at a particular time. And everybody knew that they weren’t going to get
out until everybody else had finished. And they knew this, so that’s why the work –
sort of everybody helped everybody else so they could get out. They were looking
after their own interests as well.
Tell me a bit about how you felt about working for Balfour’s in those days?
Oh, well, it seemed a pride – it’s very hard to explain, because it’s like you didn’t
blow your banks. I worked for Balfour’s but, you know, you sort of just came to
work, done your job and you had great mates that when you finished, if you wanted
to go for a beer you went for a beer around the local pub.
Was there a regular pub?
Yes. I forget the name, but it’s right on the corner of Balfour’s – if they had
hindsight they should have bought that pub and it would have kept the money in the
company. And you could imagine – they would know where their staff was as well.
And if Balfour’s had bought that pub you imagine that that would be another extra
parcel of land that would have boosted that real estate up even further. Yes.
So that would be a regular thing, meeting at the pub after your shift?
Yes. All depends how busy you were. It would usually be a Friday. Some took it to
new lengths – some would spend nearly every night there, and I think after a while it
affected their marriage and it didn’t go down too well. So I don’t think it helped
their health, either.
END OF TAPE 2 SIDE A: TAPE 2 SIDE B
[Some took it to new lengths – some would spend nearly every night there, and I
think after a while it affected their marriage and it didn’t go down too well. So I
don’t think it helped their health, either.]
So there was a social club, I understand, as well at Balfour’s. Were you involved
with that any?
Yes. Yes, we used to go to dances and – was it? – oh, trying to think where we used
to go. Enfield Civic Centre or something like that. Yes. Now, what did we do? We
had I think it was a dance band. Yes. And we had drinks and had things to eat there,
22
and I mean a lot of people went home with – had too much to drink. But we
somehow survived (laughs) that, yes.
When I first arrived I was talking to your wife about Bob Jared, because he was
involved with the social club, and she said that you’d have things to – that you’d
remember him.
Yes, I do remember him, yes, but yes, he ran it very efficiently. But he was in
charge of the decorating department, and he was a very tough boss up there. I never
really had anything to do with him up there, I suppose thank goodness. Probably at
that time I was a bit cheeky too, (laughs) and he would have sorted me out a bit, but
he was very tough. But I suppose the excellence to achieve that a company of our
size, you had to have good, tough bosses. And you don’t remember the wishy-
washy ones; you always remember the tough ones, the ones that they were fair but
they got things done.
Were they tough in your pastry area as well, or – – –?
Yes. They were, but they were only tough if you didn’t do your work or you tried to
bludge on someone else. They would be watching, and it’s surprising what they
managed to see. You couldn’t really get away with anything, they sort of knew
where you were at that time and knew how long the machine would take to finish,
and how long your smoko and how long your meal break was, and when you were
supposed to go for it and when you were supposed to come back. And they didn’t
have it written down; they sort of knew, ‘Oh, So-and-so went at this time and he’s
supposed to be back within half an hour,’ or if it was fifteen minutes – they kept you
to a rigid time, and you couldn’t take an extra five minutes or ten minutes. So they
were on you, they kept you on your toes.
So did you remain in the pastry area through till today?
Yes, I’m still in pastry area, yes.
How has the job that you have done changed, I guess, over the years?
Well, I’m on sausage rolls now. The only thing that’s changed with it – see, now,
with sausage rolls, we’ve got a block processor which takes the place of the dough
break, so you don’t have to roll out pastry for it. So all you have to do is put your
lumps of pastry on and it will just roll it down to an appropriate, thin size. Now, in
23
pastry section we’ve got three block processors – one for pasties, one for pies and
one for sausage rolls. So they all do a similar thing. So once you start these up they
go until you finish, or if you’ve got to stop the machine for, say, fifteen minutes to a
half an hour you usually pick a spot on the block processor where you just cut the
pastry and you stop the block processor and then you run the machine out, and when
you start up again you’ve still got some pastry to restart.
So what’s the job that you do with that machine?
What, on sausage rolls? Well, with the block processor all you do is just put pastry
on it, make sure the flour is correct at the time and it’s got to be a desired thickness
(yawns) so that it will run into the machine so it will be suitable so it will take the
sausage meat and also make a good product. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it
doesn’t.
So those machines that you’re working on now, when you move will they be
retained and you’ll still work on those machines?
Yes, well, we’re supposed to be getting a new pasty machine that will do more than
just pasties. It will do sausage rolls and it will do – it’s supposed to do two or three
other things: it will do pasties, sausage rolls and some of the things that were on the
make-up table it will do. And instead of putting them on trays and stacking them on
platforms and putting them in the ’fridge, it will sort of go straight into the oven,
baked, cooled, then wrapped and then into a holding ’fridge, all in that particular
time. So it will eliminate a lot of manual handling and there will be certain people’s
jobs that will be changing. I suppose my job probably will change as well.
How do you feel about the move, because you’ve worked in that city factory for –
well, you said what, nearly thirty-five years or something?
Yes. Oh, it was something that was going to come, it was just when. (laughs) If
they were going to stay there they would be paying exorbitant amount of council
rates. See, they did own that property so the council rates would still be a terrible
way of going because it’s just prime real estate. And it was good to be centrally-
located, it was a wise move, but times have changed. And I think the water rates – I
wouldn’t like the water rates or electricity bill, either. But I think in the long run
we’ve got to be environmentally smarter. I’m not sure how, but I think if we could
set a precedent for that you could get a lot of things happening through an eco-
24
friendly factory. I would like to see endemic plants that come from the area that
we’re going to around the factory, not something that’s introduced like, say, palm
trees or that. But the thing is I don’t know what would have grown in that area, but
there is a lot of information that would make it very environmentally friendly.
So looking back over the time you’ve worked for Balfour’s, what stands out for
you from the experience?
What stands out from that? (sighs) Well, I think the greatest strength that stands out
is all the different workmates that you’ve had over the years. You know, some you
mightn’t appreciate so much, but there was quite a few that will go the extra mile for
you and when you – times of strife they will help you out, and that’s where are the
strengths of the company. It’s the different people that – different backgrounds,
what they come from, where they come [from]. They sort of would help you and
probably not expect anything done for them, but it does help if you are able to help
them in some way. What goes around comes around, and it does – I think that’s one
of the strengths of our people that do work there, and when you hear of a person
that’s had an accident or something like – – –. One of the lads that’s working in our
section, he was involved in one of the accidents over the Christmas-New Year, and
the other person died in that accident and he’s in hospital and he’s got a long way to
go. And I don’t know how long it will be before he’s – we think that he’s got to
virtually re-walk again, and I don’t know how we’re going to respond to help him.
And he’s just one of the apprentices, one of the young lads, and I sort of think,
‘Well, I was that some years ago,’ and it touches you because they say, ‘Oh, did you
hear about Such-and-such? He was involved with an accident.’ ‘Oh! Oh, was he?’
‘Yeah.’ And it sort of goes back. You hear, ‘Oh, Such-and-such had a heart attack,’
and there’s just case notes of what’s happened in the last two or three months. And
you also hear of different people have other different ideas of lifestyle that work in
the factory, and you sort of think, ‘Oh, yeah?’ So like it is, it takes all kinds to make
it a real different mixture.
So would you say – you talked about that family atmosphere: do you feel that’s
still there to a certain extent, or – in the way that you’re talking about all these
people from different backgrounds working together?
Oh, I think at the moment it has lost a bit of its shine. It’s still there somewhere, but
it sort of needs to be rekindled. But as it is, I don’t know how it would be rekindled.
25
I think you just try and work from day to day and that’s all you can do. Yes. Yes. I
think a couple of the bosses have helped in a way, sort of giving us a bit of a helping
hand, and by them doing that we’ll be expected to give them a helping hand when it
is most appropriate, like when the overtime gets very heavy we’ll be expected to
front up and, ‘Yes, we’ll do the overtime, Such-and-such.’ Yes, that’s like where the
family atmosphere comes, it’s like the people in charge helping the people that are
on the work floor. That’s where the family atmosphere – yes.
Well, I’ve come to the end of my questions. Is there anything else you’d like to say
about your many years with Balfour’s?
Yes. I sort of think when it comes to retirement I don’t think I’ll be working any
longer than I have to. Some have had the option of working well over the age of
retirement, but I don’t think there’s the inclination to do that these days.
Why has that changed?
It’s atmosphere, you know, that they don’t – it’s lost that sort of feeling of – it’s very
hard to explain. It’s like the awareness that, you know, you don’t really want to stay
there any longer than you really have to. Yes. Yes, I can’t think of anything else
that – – –. (laughs)
Well, I’d like to thank you very much for your time today. It’s been really
interesting to hear the changes you’ve witnessed over your many years, and I wish
you luck with the move and hope that you still have a nice job! (laughs)
Well, I’m a survivor, you know. Long as I do my job I’ll still be there. If not, well,
they’ll find me something. Yes. I’m not fussy.
Thank you very much, John.
That’s all right.
END OF INTERVIEW.
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