transcript – owning your testosterone with john romaniello ... · dave asprey: for people who...

Transcript – Owning Your Testosterone with John Romaniello - #340

Bulletproof Radio John Romaniello #340

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DaveAsprey: Areyoureadytotakeyourlifetothenextlevel,especiallyintherealmofprofessionalnetworking,dating,andrelationships?YouneedtocheckouttheArtofCharmpodcast.Inarecentepisode,thisinspirationalpodcasttalkedaboutmentorshipandhowyouhavetobeagoodmenteeinordertobeagoodmentor.Totakeyourlifetothenextlevel,gotopodcastone.com,ordownloadthefreemobileapptolistennow.

Speaker2: BulletproofRadio,astateofhighperformance.

DaveAsprey: You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatmicro-estrogensareKryptoniteforyourtestosterone,justlikexeno-estrogensfoundinplasticsandpersonalcareproducts.Fungiandmoldfromfoods,likeproduce,canmaketheseestrogens.Itcanbefoundintheenvironmentaroundyoubecauseofwaterdamageinhouses,whichiswhyImadeadocumentarycalled"Moldy"aboutit.Thebiggestsourceoftheseestrogensisactuallycorn,wheat,rice,barley,andsorghums.Thesecanbethousandsoftimesmorepotentestrogensthanwhatyourbodywouldnaturallymakeifyouturnedyourtestosteroneintoestrogen.

Ifyou'relikemerightnowwalkingaroundwithabiggerthannormalcaseofmanboobs,Iactuallyspentanightinamoldyhotelroomandwokeupthenextmorningwithsomeinterestingswelling.They'llgoawayinacoupledays.Idon'tknowifyoucansee,butI'mlookingsomewhatmuscular,butI'malittlebouncierthanIoughttobe.ThisisanissueI'vealwayshad,becauseIgrewupfatinabasement.Anyway,youdon'twantmoldorestrogeninyourenvironment,andparticularlynotthecombinationofthetwo.

ItotallyappreciateyoulisteningtoBulletproofRadio,andIwanttodosomethingtosaythanks.Icontactedmyfriendsatdollarshaveclub.comandarrangedforthemtogivenewmembersamonthoftheexecutiverazorforfree,justfortryingatubeofDr.Carver'sShaveButter.Anythingthatsaysbutterisgoingtogetmekindofexcited,butthisisnotthekindofbutteryouputinyourcoffee,justsowe'reclear.Thisisshavebutter.I'mreallyexcitedthattheyagreedtodoitforyou.

Letmeremindyouwhymillionsofothershavejoinedasproudmembersoftheclub.Dollarshaveclub.comdeliversamazingrazorsrighttoyourdoorforathirdthepriceofwhatthegreedyrazorcompanieswillcharge.ThatmeanswhenyoujoinDSC,youcanaffordtoshavewithafreshbladeanytimeyouwant,whichfeelsfantastic.IgetafirstclassshavewhenIusetheExecutiveBlade,andthat'swithoutevenhurtingmywallet.WhenIusetheexecutivewithDr.Carver'sShaveButter,thebladejustgentlyglidesforthesmoothestshaveever.

Shavebutterisn'tyouraverageshavecream.It'sauniqueconditioningformulawithhighqualitynaturalingredients,leavingyourskinunbelievablysoftandsmooth.NowisagreattimetojoinDollarShaveClub.Newmemberswhobuyatubeofshavebuttergetamonthoftheexecutiverazorforfree.Takeadvantageofthisspecialoffertoday.It'savailablebygoingtodollarshaveclub.com/bulletproof.That'sdollarshaveclub.com/bulletproof.

Beforewegetgoingontheshowallthewaytoday,checkoutBulletproofUpgradedWhey

Protein.I'mactuallynotabigfanofwheyprotein,becauseit'sinflammatorywhenyougettoomuchoftheaminoacidcysteine.Alittlebitisgood.Toomuchisbad,butImakeawheyproteinwhichismadefromgrassfedmilk,notacheesebyproduct.It'slowtemperatureprocessed.It's20%colostrum,andit'sgotsomeoftheXCTpowderbuiltintoit.Yougetalittlebitofboostfromit.It'soneofthemorecreamy,satisfying,andbiologicallyactivewheyproteinsthatIcanmanufacture.Itellyoueventhen,eventhoughIsellthestuff,twotablespoonsaday,nomore,becausethereareotherproteinsthatcanbebetter.

Bytheway,today'sguestmaycompletelydisagreewithme,andheknowsathingortwoaboutthiskindofstuff.Ihavenoideawhathisperspectiveis.Prettywellknownguy.HisnameisJohnRomaniello.John,Ijustrealizedsomething.We'vehungoutafewtimes,andIalwaysjustcalledyou"Romanello",butthere'san"I"intherethatInevernoticed.HaveIbeensayingyournamewrongthisentiretimeandjustbeingadick?

John: No,no,no.No,wedon'tusethe"I".It'sasilentI.Iassumemanygenerationsbackitwas"Romaniello",butwe'reparticularlyAmericanized,andwejustsay"Romanello".The"I"is-

DaveAsprey: "Romanello".Okay,that'swhatI'vealwayssaid,andIjustnoticedthe"I".I'mlike,"MyGod."It'dbekindofembarrassing.Peoplecallme"assspray"allthetime,soI'mprettyresistanttothat.

John: That"I"hasplaguedmesinceelementaryschool.Forwhateverreasonmyteacherswouldalwaystakeitandthrowitattheendofthename,anditwouldbecome"Romanelli",whichit'snotmyname.It'sverystrange.Yeah,the"I"hascausedallsortsoftrouble,as"I's"tendtodo.

DaveAsprey: AreyouItalian?

John: Iamwhatwecallmiscegenous.Iamquiteraciallymixed.IamprobablymoreItalianthananythingelse,butI'mnotasItalianasmynameimplies.MybirthnameisGiovanniVincenzoRomaniellotheThirdfornogoodreason,exceptnowit'stradition.Thisisjustofinterest,ifyoulikehistory,butmyfather'smother,shewasabeautifulwomannamedWillyEllenBarrow,andshewasfromBuckalooCounty,Alabama.Shewashalfblack,aquarterIrish,andaquarterNativeAmerican.Thenshemarriedmygrandfather,whowasItalianandPolish.IthinkIpresenttomostpeopleasaGuineafromLongIsland,butI'mactuallythismixedraceguywithsouthernroots.

DaveAsprey: You'requitemixedwithsomeredneckinthere,too.Wow,I'mimpressed.

John: Ohyeah.

DaveAsprey: I'mnotquiteredneck,butI'mfromNewMexico.

John: That'ssortofredneck.

DaveAsprey: Kissingcousins.Wedon'thaveenoughwatertoberealrednecks,andwemaketequila,notmoonshine,butotherwise...

John: Otherwiseit'sthesame.

DaveAsprey: Forpeoplewhodon'tknowyourname,you'reafitnessexpert,prettywellknown.Ikeepcomingacrossyourstuff,sowhenIfinallymetyou,Iwaslike,"Oh,thisisreallycool."John,youwriteforMen'sHealthandFastCompany.You'reanangelinvestor,advisortoabunchoffitnessandtechcompanies.YourcompanyRomanFitnessSystemsisoneofthetopratedsourcesforonlineinformation,particularlyaroundexerciseanfitness,andyou'resortofawalkingwallofmuscle,butnotaballoonanimal.You'vegotthatthinkdownaboutright.WhereIthinkmostpeoplehaveseenyournameisbecauseyouwrote"EngineeringtheAlpha,"whichisabookthatI'vedefinitelytalkedaboutbefore.I'veseensomereallygoodinformationinthebook.Welcometotheshow.

John: Thankyou.Thankyousomuch.Iappreciatethatintroduction.

DaveAsprey: Let'stalkalittlebitabouthormones.Thisisgoingtobeashortepisodeforpeopletoday.Tellmeabouthowmenproducedestrogen.Ikindofopenedupwithmystoryaboutmymanboobs.Tellmewhat'sgoingonwithestrogen,becauseyou'vereallylookedintothis.

John: Yeah,soobviouslythehormonethatwetalkaboutmostwithregardtomenistestosterone.Ithinkthatthere'sprobablythismisconceptionthatmoreisbetter.There'sapointwherethat'strue,butobviouslythere'salineofdiminishingreturns.Withregardtoestrogen,menproduceitnaturally,anditgetsnaturallyproducedinourbodies,butitalsogetsproducedinresponsetoheighteningtestosterone.ReallywhatItalkaboutisthebalance,becauseIworkwithalotofprofessionalathletes,andIhaveoverthecourseofmycareer.Alotofthoseguysuseperformanceenhancingdrugs,particularlytestosteronederivatives.Ifthey'renotcareful,whatcanhappenisastheyinjectexogenoustestosterone,someofitwillconvertdirectlytoestrogenthroughaprocesscalledaromatization.Thentherecanalsobeanincreaseinendogenousproductionofestrogen.

ReallywhatItalkaboutismaintainingthatbalance.Obviouslyit'simpossibletoquantifylikeyouwantafourtoonebalanceoftestosteronetoestrogen,butingeneral,youdowanttokeepnaturalestrogenproductionstable.Youdon'twantanyofthesemassivespikes.Spikesoftestosteronearetypicallynotgoingtoharmyouinanyway,whereasspikesofestrogen,asyoumentioned,evensomeshorttermenvironmentalexposuretomoldordietaryexposuretophytoestrogenslikesoyorsorghumorxeno-estrogensinourplastics,thatcanhavesomeacutephysiologicaleffects,inyourcase,youhadtheswollenbreasttissueoranythingsurroundingthechest.Foralotofpeopleitresultsinsomesortofemotionalinstability.Forothersitcanresultinsexualdysfunction.Thesearethingsthatweneedtobereallyawareof.

Withregardtosex,Ipersonallyviewsexdriveandtypicalsexualfunctionasprobablythe

mostreliablebarometerofhealth.Ifyouareaguywhotypicallyhasanormaloraveryhighsexdrive,andthenyouwakeuponedayandyou'renotinterested,thatisparticularlytellingthatsomethingiswrong.Thenalsointermsofsexualperformance,ifonedayoutofabsolutelynowhereyouarestrugglingtoachieveormaintainanerectionorachieveorgasm,thosethingsarevery,verytellingthatsomethingcouldbewronghormonally.Obviouslyitcouldbeanynumberofthings,physiologicallyorpsychologically,butIjustfindthatingeneral,ifthere'sonethingyouwalkawayfromthispodcastwith,it'sthatformen,Ithinksexualfunctionisthemostreliablebarometerofgeneralendocrinologicalhealth.

DaveAsprey: Myfirstbookwasaboutfertility,anditinvolvedmenandwomen.Whatdoyoudobeforeyougetpregnantandduringpregnancytohavereallyhealthykids?Oneofthebiggestthingsthattellsyouwhetheryourmitochondriaareworkingornotiswhetheryourspermcanswim.Ilookedatthataswell.Ifpeoplearehavingfertilityproblems,whetherthey'remenorwomen,butifyou'reaguyandyourlittleguy'scan'tswim,yourbraincan'tthinkeither,becausethesamethingthatmakesthemswimmakesyouthink.That'showyoumakeelectricityinyourhead.

WhenIwas26,Iusedtoweight300pounds.IhadalreadylostsomeoftheweightbythetimeIwas26,butIwentandIgotmyfirstfullanti-aginghormonepanel.Thiswasgoingback,jeez,17yearsorsomething.Icameoutofitsortofshocked,becausemytestosteronewasverylow,andmyestrogenlevelswerehigherthanmymom.

John: Goodness,wow.Atthetime,Iassumeyourmomwaspost-menopausal.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,shewas.

John: Herestrogenwasslightlysuppressed,relativetowhatitwouldhavebeenduringtheprimeofherfertileyears.

DaveAsprey: Absolutely.

John: Yeah,no.Yeah,it'samazing.Iseeguyswhohaveallsortsofelevatedestrogenandsuppressedtestosterone.There'sthissortofdrive,Ithink,it'slike,"HowdoIfixit?"Forelevatedestrogen,alotoftimestheimmediateresponseisaromataseinhibitors,goingonclomipheneorarimidexornolvadexorsomethinglikethat.Thosethingsarefine,althoughclomipheneisnottechnicallyanaromataseinhibitor.Thosedrugsaregreat,andtheyworkreally,reallywellforalotofpeople,butIthinkthatingeneral,thefirstresponseshouldbetotryandaddressthosethings,intermsoflifestyle,diet,nutrition,andenvironmentalfactors.

DaveAsprey: Bytheway,forlisteners,that'sprettymuchwhatyoutalkaboutinyourbook,"EngineeringtheAlpha."Yougothroughallthis.Ifyou'reaguyoryou'reawomanwithaguywho'sgotmanboobsoranyoftheseotherdysfunctions,it'swortharead.

John: Thankyou.

DaveAsprey: Itwasoneofthe...Isaythatasacompliment,becausethere'salotofjusttestosteronegood,eateggsgood.It'salittlemorecomplexbecauseofthisdynamicwiththeenvironmentcominginandfeedbackloops.Ithoughtyounaileditinawaythatwasprettyapproachable.

John: Thankyou.Iappreciatethat.Yeah,thebookthankfullywasverywellreceived.Again,Ithinkthatbecauseitwasabookintendedformen,itisalittleheavieronthetestosteronethantheestrogenstuff,butIthinkthatoneofthemainthingsthatwereallyfocusedoninthatbook,whichisit'sboththeeasiesttodoandthehardesttoexecuteissleep.That'sthismassivething.Asanentrepreneuryouknow.Ifyougetninehours,it'slikethebestdayever.Togetthoseninehoursisverydifficult,tocarveninehoursaway.

Itreallyisimportant,particularlyformenwithregardtotestosteroneproduction.Whatpeopledon'trealizeisthatifyousleep...Firstofall,let'sestablishthis.Aftertheageof30,testosteronedropsabout10%perdecade,intermsofnaturalendogenousproduction.That'sabout1%peryear.Thatquantifyisthat1%peryeartestosteronewilldropaftertheageof30,butregardlessofage,ifyousleepsixhourspernightorlessforaslittleastwoweeks,testosteroneproductioncandropupto15%.Ifyouthinkaboutthat,it'sgettingsixhoursofsleepanightorlessfortwoweeks.You’rephysiologically,endocrinologicallyagingyourbodyby15years,intermsofitsabilitytoproducetestosterone.Thatissomethingthatweharponallthetime.

Iknowthatpeoplewantallofthesefixesandthey'rewillingtospendmoney.Sleepisfreeisthegreatthing.Sleepisafreethingthatyoucando.It'sideallyathirdofyourlife,butitisalsothehardestthingtoexecute,becausewe'vegotalltheseotherthingsgoingon.Wehavestresses.Alotofpeoplesufferfromanxiety-inducedinsomniawheretheyareactually,evenwhenthey'resleeping,theiranxietyisworking,theirbrainsareworkingovertime,andtheyactuallygetpulledoutofREMsleepbecausetheirautonomicnervoussystemismassivelystimulatedfromwhateverstressesarehappeningintheirlife.That'savery,verydifferentthingfrompursephysiologicalinsomniawhereyoucanjusttakemelatonin.Aslongasyoucanfallasleep,you'llstayasleep.

Addressingthosethingsthroughothermeansisinteresting,andalsowe'reverybusypeople.I'mnotgoingtotouchonthe...I'mnotgoingtobeyourdad.I'mnotgoingtotellyoudon'tlookatyourcellphonebeforeyougotobed,becausethebluelightisgoingto...Justtrytogettobedearlier.It'sthatsimple.15minutesanight,andjuststart.You'dbesurprisedthatyoucangotobedat10:00andwakeupat6.It'shard,Iknow,particularly,listen,whenyou'reaparent.Dave,youhavethreekidsnow?

DaveAsprey: Two,yeah.

John: Twokids,okay.Theygotobedatprobably7:00,8:00.

DaveAsprey: Sometimes,yeah.

John: Ideally,right?Mykidis10.Mysonis10yearsold,andhegoestobedat9:30.IfI'mgoing

togotobedat10,thatleavesmeahalfhourofalonetimewithmywife.Thatisobviouslyachallenge,intermsoffosteringourintimacyandreallyspendingqualitytimebuildingourrelationship.Iunderstandthatthereareallofthesefactors,intermsofthingsthatpreventyoufromgettingeightorninehoursofsleep,butitreallycomesdowntowhatelsecanIcutout?Alotoftimesit'sassimpleasmaybewe'renotgoingtowatchthathourofTVthatweloveatnightuntiltheweekend.Insteadwe'rejustgoingtogoinbedandreadtogether,andtalk,orhavesex,orwhateveritis.You'dbesurprised,ifyouandyourwifegotobedahalfhourearlier,howthefrequencyofsexgoesup.

DaveAsprey: It'samazingwhatlayinginbedtogetherdoes.

John: It'slike,"Whilewe'rehere,whatelsearewegoingtodo?"Wedon'thaveaTVinthebedroom,soIguess.Yeah,sothere'sallsortsofthingsaroundsleepthatIthinkit'sthisreallyinterestingthing.Iworkwithacoupleofmattresscompanies,andI'vebeenveryfortunateto...AcompanycalledIntelliBEDrecentlysentusthisunbelievablemattress.It'sreallygreat.WhatstuckouttomeisthatIamahealthprofessional,andIhaveneverspentmorethan$2,000onamattress.Eventhatseemedlikealot.Iknowguyswhothey'resavingmoneysothattheycanbuythatTesla,whichisagreatcarandanamazingthingtohave,butIthinkthatthe...ThiscomesfromTesladirectly.IthinkElonputoutthattheaverageautomotiveownerusestheircarlessthan10%ofthetime,lessthan5%formostpeople.Youownthis$150,000carthatyouuse5%ofitslifetime,andthenyouspendathirdofyourlifeinbed,andyou'regoingtoskimponyourmattress.

It'sthisinterestingthing.Investinyoursleep,yourtime,yourenergy,yourmoney.Makesurethatyougetqualitysleep.It'sbeenthismassivethingthathasbeenhugelyhelpfultome,becauseifIcangetreallygreatsleepandmyclientscangetreallygreatsleepconsistently,thenthosehighstressperiodswhereyouareworkingonalaunch,oranewbook,oraproduct,oryouhaveanewbaby,youcanabsorbthosealittlebitmoreeasily.

DaveAsprey: Yeah.Haveyoulookedatchronotypes?MichaelBreuswasjustontheshow,whoisasleepdoctorforDoctorOz,andjustwroteabooktalkingabouthow15%ofthepopulationisnightowls,andtheyactuallydobettergoingtobedafter11.There'sanumberofpeople,Ithink55%ofthemgotobedwiththesunbasically.Thenthere'stheearlyrisercrowd.Iwasinterestedinthat,becauseitseemsliketestosteroneproduction,whichiscircadian,itgoesonadailybasis,itmayshift,dependingonwhatyourtypeis.

John: Yeah,it'sinterestingtotalkabout.Ibecameveryinterestedinthat,becauseIhavealwaysclassifiedmyselfasanighowl,intermsofnotonlywhenIfeelbest,butalsowhenI'mmostproductive.WhenIwaslivinginNewYorkCity,Ifoundthatmybesthoursforwritingwerefromaround11pmuntil4am.

DaveAsprey: That'swhatIdidlastnight,exactlythat.

John: Yeah,andthegreatthingwasatthattimeIwasaNewYorkCitybachelor,andIcouldgotosleepat4or5am,andIcouldwakeupatnoonanditwasfine.Nowobviouslyhavingachildwhohasaschoolschedule,hehastobethereat7:30nomatterwhat.That'sjusthow

itgoes.Ihaveadaptedtoamoretraditionallifeofgoingtobedwhenthesunisgone.Ithinkthatyoucanadapt.Ithinkthattherearecertain...Likeeverything,youhaveproclivitiesandthingsthatmaybeyougravitatetowards,butyoucanadapt.Ittookaboutayearandahalf,maybetwoyearsformetobeabletohavethesamelevelofproductionfromnoonto5pmasIusedtofrom11to4.Icandoitnow,andit'sfine.Itjusttookawhiletoadapt.

DaveAsprey: That'simpressive.Forabout2yearsItaughtmyselftowakeupat5ameverymorning,andwakeupandmeditateandallthat.IfinallyrealizedattheendofitthatIhadadapted,butthatitwasjustnotnatural.It'snotworkingforme.

John: Nowisit?Whendoyouwakeup?

DaveAsprey: Iactuallygotobedat2,andIwakeupwhenIget...DuringthesummerIwakeupat8:50soIcanstartcallsat9.Myaverageamountoftimeinbedis6hoursand1minuteforthelast3years.Ididn'tusedtorequirethatmuchsleep,andI'llwakeupwithoutanalarmclockthatway.It'snotaninsomniathing.It'slikeI'mgoodtogo.Thatshiftedbyabout2hoursasIimprovedmymitochondrialfunctionasIbasicallygotridofstuffthatwasn'tworkingbiologicallyforme.I'veseensomedata,andit'sreallyinteresting,becausemytestosteronewasabsolutelyintheshit,butIwasn'tfollowinganyofthatadvice.

There'sastudyof1.2millionpeoplethatfoundtheoneswholivedthelongestweresleeping6andahalfhoursanight,thatpeoplewhoslept8hours,theyweredyingmoreofallcausesofmortality,includingdiseasesandallthatthanpeoplewhoslept6hours.Itwasreallyweird.That'snottosaythatthisisprescriptive.Ithinkit'sjustthatpeoplewhoareabnormallyhighperformingbiologically,theyjustrequirelessmaintenanceatnight,becausethingsareworking.

John: Yeah,Iagree.Icando8hoursifeverythingisdarkandIhaveamaskonandItakesomesupplementstofacilitatethat,butingeneral,yeah,no,I'ma4,5,6hourguy.

DaveAsprey: Youare,too?

John: I'mfine.Ifunction.Here'saninterestingthing.Idon'tknowthatI'veeveradmittedthisonapodcast.WhenIwasakidIwasabed-wetter,whichisahorriblethingto-

DaveAsprey: Weren'tweall?

John: UntilIwas10.

DaveAsprey: Ohwow.Okay.

John: Itwaslate.Iwasabed-wetter.IhadsomeissuewhereIcouldnot,whenIwassleeping,realizethatIhadtogotothebathroom.IwentonwhatwasthenanexperimentaldrugthateventuallygotapprovedbytheFDAcalledDDAVP.Thiswasadrug.Itwasanasaldrugthatyoutake.After2weeksitstopped.Iwasabletowakeupandgotothebathroom.

However,Ihavenotsleptthroughthenightsincethen,becausemybladderissosensitivethatthemomentIneedtousethebathroom,IwakeupandIgotothebathroom.Iprobablygetuptopee4timesanight,3timesanight,becauseIdrinkalotofwater.

TheinterestingwaythatthishasaffectedmeisthatIslipinandoutofsleeplikenothingyou'veeverseen.Iwakeup.Igotothebathroom.Ihitthemattress,andIamoutimmediately.I'vedonesleepstudieswherehowquicklyittakesmetogetintoREMsleep,it'sphenomenallyquick.Thatisreallyinteresting,becauseitalsoallowsmetobevery,veryhighperformingandhighfunctioningwhenI'mawake,butifIwanttotakeanap,Icanclosemyeyesandfallasleepprettymuchinstantlyandwakeupwithoutany...Ialwayswakeupwiththesameamountofenergy.Icanget3hoursofsleepor8hoursofsleep,andIwakeup.I'malwaysinthesamemood.I'malwaysreadytogo,happy.I'mveryconfidentthatthiswillbepushedtothelimitwhenmywifeandI,shouldwehavebiologicalchildrenofourown,wherenowI'vegotthisbabythat'supatallhours.Icameinasastepfather,andhewas5.Imissedallofthat.

DaveAsprey: John,fromthatperspective,IdidanexperimentwithsleepwhereI'mlike,"I'mgoingtoget5hoursorlesseverynighttoactuallytriggerobesity."Icouldeatstupidamountsofcalories.Iwasjustgoingtodoitforamonthor2,and4,500caloriesadayonaverage,justtosortofproveIdidn'tgainasmuchweightasIshouldhavefromeatingallthisfat,andjustbecauseI'mcurious.Ifeltamazing,butwhatIhaven'treallytoldpeopleisthatexperimentstartedthedayaftermysecondson,becauseI'mnotgoingtosleepmorethan5hoursanightanyway.

John: Nomatterwhat,yeah.

DaveAsprey: It'sagreattimeforastudy,2birdswith1stone.You'reabsolutelyright.Yoursleepwillbewreckedforthefirst9months,nomatterwhatyoudo..

John: Yeah,andIthinkI'mprobablybetterequippedtodealwithitthanmost,butnomatterwhat,it'sgoingtobehard.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,youare.

John: Intermsofthetestosteronestuff-

DaveAsprey: Yeah,let'sgobacktothat.

John: Iwasalwaysvery,verynaturallyhigh.IgotmytestosteronetestedforthefirsttimewhenIwas22or23yearsold,becauseIwasadatadrivenguy.IwasreallyintoCharlesPoliquinatthetime.Hetalkedaboutthat.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,smartguy.

John: Igottested,andIwascloseto1,100,like1,070,sovery,verynaturallyhightestosteronelevels.ThenIwas23,andIwasbuildingabusiness.Thingsweregoingwell,andthenIhita

wall.Iwas25yearsold,andIwasinthisrelationshipwiththiswoman,andsheapproachedmeandshe'slike,"Hey,doyouknowwehaven'thadsexinlike2months?""That'sweird."Ihadgainedallthisweight,andthingswerejustnotgoingwellformeat25.Eventuallythatrelationshipendedasthingsdoifyoudon'thavesexwithsomeonefor3months.They'llleave.I'vedetaileditelsewhere,butIgotmytestosteronelevelschecked,andIwasat540,whichisstillreasonablyhigh.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,butnotforthatage.

John: Notforthatage,andnotforsome...Mytestosteronelevelswereroughlyhalfofwhattheyhadbeen.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,around1,000inyourmid20sisareasonablenumber,frommemory,ormaybe950Ithinkis-

John: Yeah,forhightestosteroneguys,around1,000.Mostguyscouldbeat7or8andbefine.Iwasexperiencingalloftheseilleffectsfrombeinginthe...DependingonwhenIgottested,itwasthehigh400s,low500s.Therangefortestosterone,foranyonewhodoesn'tknow,isabout230nanogramsperdeciliterto1,150nanogramsperdeciliter,dependingonthelabyougoto.Beinginthe500s,IwasstillhighenoughthatIwasinthenormalrangeandcouldnotgetanymedicaltreatment.Ihadtofigurethisoutmyself.Atthetime,listen,Iwas25yearsold,andIwasbeinganidiot.ItwaswhenIfirststartedsocial...Ididn'tdrinkalcoholuntilIwas25.Ididn'thavethathighschoolandcollegeexperience.NowI'm25,I'mdrinkingontheweekends.

DaveAsprey: Yeah,beerestrogen,huh?

John: Ineverdrankbeer.

DaveAsprey: Okay,smart.

John: Ineveracquiredthetaste.Idoverightintowhiskey,because-

DaveAsprey: Betterchoice

John: Yeah,somethingaboutthewaybrownliquorlooksinaglass,itlookedreallycooltome,soIdovein.Iwasdrinkingontheweekends.Iwasnotgettingalotofsleep,becauseIwasbuildingmybusiness.Iwasrunningaroundchasinggirlsafterthatrelationshipended,buthonestlyIjustwasn'ttakingcareofmyself.Iwastrainingprobably10hoursaday,trainingclients,andwasn'tmakingtimeformyworkouts.MydietwenttocrapbecauseIjustkepteatinglessandless,becauseInoticedIwasgettingfatter.Iwastryingtomaintainlowbodyfat.EventuallyIgotmytestosteronelevelschecked,anditwasinthe500s.

NowIreversedcourse.Istartedsleepingmore,starttryingtostressoutless,eatalotmorefat,madesurethatmycarbohydrateintakewaswhereitneededtobe.Iwasn'toverindulgingoncarbs.ItwaswhateverIneededtorecoverfromworkouts,butthesleep

madethebiggestimpact.Insideof6weeksmytestosteronewasbackinthe900s.Then6weeksafterthatitwasbackover1,000.ThisbecamethisveryinterestingthingtomewhereIrealizedlifestylereallydoesaffectthis.Alcoholisprobablynotsomethingthatmostpeoplearewillingtocutout,butloweringit,prettysignificantimpactthere.

InoticedthatasIwasonthisincrease,theestrogendidgoup,butIhadnoilleffects.Thenaftermytestosteroneremainedelevatedforabout6months,theestrogenlevelsdroppednaturally.Ithinktherewasjustsomebiologicalfeedbackwhereit'sjustlike,"Allright,testosteronegoesup,estrogenneedstogoup."Mytestosteronehasstayedvery,veryhighsincethatpoint.However,I'm34now.Igetmytestosteronecheckedevery1to2years.WhenIwas28itwasataround1,100.ThenwhenIwas30itwas900.ThenwhenIwas31itwas850.ThenIrecentlygotittestedat33,anditwas690-ish.That'sstillhigh,butInoticethedownwardtrend,andIknowthatI'mdoingeverythingright,intermsoflifestyle.TherewasnothingelsethatIcoulddo,soImadeaneducateddecisiontogetonsomelow-dosetestosteronereplacementtherapy.

DaveAsprey: High5,bytheway.Thankyouforjustputtingitoutthere.

John: Sure.

DaveAsprey: IwentonitwhenIwas26.Iwentoffitforseveralyearsandmeasuredmylevels,wentbackonwhennecessary.Howdiditfeelwhenyouwentonthere?Whatdidyounotice?

John: Thisis,Iguess,itwasrightbeforemy34thbirthday,whichwasinApril.Iwanttosaythisisprobably2ndweekofMarchofthisyear.ItisnowJuly,soit'sbeencloseto6months.WhatInoticedimmediatelywashowmuchbetterIfelt,justoverallfeelingofwellbeing.Again,bytheway,verylowdoes,200milligramsaweekit'senoughtokeepmebackupwhereIwasinmylate20s,butI'm-

DaveAsprey: Areyouinjectingorcream?

John: Yeah,I'minjecting.Yeah,butI'mnotinsuperphysiologicalranges.Thefirstthingoverallqualityoflife,recoveringfromworkoutsmorequickly,generallyfeelingalotmorehappier.Isleepbetter.Sexdriveisalittlerhigher.IdidnotnoticeanythingintermsofphysiqueorbodycompositionuntilIwentonafamilyvacation.WetookIsaactoItalyforhis10thbirthday.IwasgoneforIguess11days.Ihaveaprescription,soIwasabletotakemystuffwithme.WhatInoticedisthatIwaseatinggelatoandpizzaandbeinginItalyforanextendedperiodoftime,andnotreally...TheonlygymthatwecouldfindwasatatrainstationinRome.IthinkIgottoworkout3timesin10days.

WhatInoticedisthatImadethedecisiontoundereatoncalories,becauseIknewmyfoodchoicesweren'tgoingtobegreat.Inormallywaseatingaround2,800calories,soIdroppeddowntoaround24.IwasinItalyeatingpizzaandgelatoandnottraining,andIlostbodyfat.Ithinkthat'sbecauseobviouslywhenyou'reonhigherlevelsoftestosterone,youcanundereatandnotsacrificeleanbodymass.Forme,thatwasthefirsttimeInoticedanything,intermsofmyphysique.ThatwaswhenIhadbeenonforabout9weeks.

Thensincethen,Idecidedto,"Letmegetalittlebitmorededicatedwithtrackingmy

macrosandtrainingalittleharder."Mybodycompositionhascontinuedtoimprove,notdrastically.Idon'tlooklikeI'mabouttosteponstage,butI'mleanerthanIwouldbewithoutit.Overall,honestly,David,forwhateverreason,IhadthisthinginmyheadwhereIwasgoingtowaitaslongaspossibletogoonTRT.Havingnowbeenonforseveralmonths,I'mjustlike,"Man,whydidIwaitsolong."Ithinkthatit'sfreeing.

DaveAsprey: It'slife.It'slife-changing.It'slikeyourzestforlifecomesback.Evenifyoudidn'treallynothaveazestforlife,it'sjustbetter.IknowMarkSisson,who'sbeenontheshowacoupletimes,he'solderthanI,though.He'sinhisearly60s.I'm43.You'rebasically10yearsyoungerthanIam.Ithinkyoudidthewisestthingyoucoulddo,andIwouldencourageeveryonewhoislistening,menandwomen,getyourhormonelevelstested,evenifyou're25.

John: That'sthekey.Yeah.

DaveAsprey: Evenifyou're30.Knowyournumbers,what'snaturalforyou.

John: Right,exactly.That'sthemostimportantthing.Tellallguys,"Getyourlevelschecked,"andwomen,too,becausehere'sthething.Evenifyou'renotexperiencinganyilleffectsrightnow,andthatmaycontinue,andhopefullyitwillforyou,theimportantthingisthatgettingtested,itestablishesthatbaseline.Forme,hadInotgottentestedwhenIwas22,23onawhim,thenwhenIwas25,ifIhadgottentestedandIwasinthe500s,Iwouldhavebeenlike,"I'mfine.Thisisnottheissue."HavinghadthatbaselinefromthreeyearspriorallowedmetoseethatnormallyI'mat1,000,andnowI'mat500.Mytestosteronehaddropped50%.Therewasnowaythatcouldn'thavedeleteriouseffects.

Forme,Ithinkthatthere'sthisreallyinterestingconversationthatgoesonwhereeverythingaroundtestosteroneislikesteroids.ThenTRTisgenerallyalittlebitmorepositive.There'sthismiddlegroundwherethere'snogoodinformation.I'mreallytryingtohelpfillthatvoid.Ithinkeveryonewillcometothepointwheretheygettomakethatdecision.Ifyouhavetheknowledgeandthesupervisionofadoctorandthemeansandthewilltodoit,listen,I'mnotgoingtotellyouinjecting4timesaweekisn'tapainintheass,aliteralpainintheassofwhereyou'reinjecting,butthetrade-offisfine.Ifeelgreat.

IhaveanapartmentinNewYork,andourhousehereinCalifornia.IhaveasupplyinbothplacessothatnomatterwhereIam,Icankeepmylevelssteady.It'smademereally,reallyinterestedinexperimentingwithotherthings.Italkedtomydoctor,andI'mlike,"I'vegotthisnagginglowerbackinjury."I'mlike,"Allright,maybeifIdida3monthcourseofgrowthhormonewhileIwasgoingthroughaggressivetreatment,likemuscleactivationtherapyandactivereleasetherapy,maybethatwouldreallyhelpfixtheissue."

DaveAsprey: It'sabsolutelyworthtrying.IdidgrowthhormonewhenIhitmyheadasawayofworkingwithTBI.There'sgooddataforit,andit'snotanadmissionofweakness.It'sjustcontrollingyourbiology.There'sthisweirdpuritanicalthinglike,"Someoneinthe'70suseda

derivativeoftestosteronehadliverproblems.Nowifyouuseittostayyoung,you'resomehowcheating."I'mlike,"Okay,I'mcheating.Whatever.Ijustwanttofeelliethisallthetime."

John: Yeah,ifyou'renotcompetingit'snotcheating.Forme,I'mfinewithit.Forme,oneoftheinterestingthingsabouthavingbuildthemuscularitythatIhave,andhavingthetypesofpicturesofmethatareontheinternetisthatfortheentiretyofmycareer,I'vebeenaccusedofusingsteroids.Iwasalwaysveryvocal.Iwaslike,"Listen,Idon'tthinkanythingiswrongwithsteroids.Ihaveplentyoffriendswhousethem.I'mnotcurrently,but,andthisisthemostimportantthing,ifIeverdecidetostartinjectingshitintomybody,Iwilltellyou."

DaveAsprey: Thereyougo.

John: Iputitoutthere,andit'sreallyinteresting.Theresponsehasbeenuniversallypositive.Notonepersonhaspushedback.

DaveAsprey: Good.

John: It'scrazyIthoughtIwasgoingtogetallsortsofhate,buteveryonejusthas...Icameatitfromaveryobjective,scientific,andveryhonestperspective.Here'swhyIdidit,becauseInoticedadownwardtrend.Ididn'twantthat.I'mgood.Nowinsteadofpeoplehating,Ijustgetallthesegreatquestionsaboutit.Theinterestingthingisthatwhenyoucomeoutaboutusingat34,anyquestionaboutusingwhenyouwere24sortofgoesaway.Ithoughtthattheremightbesomethingaboutitpotentiallydamaginglegacy,butit'sbeenuniversallygreat.

DaveAsprey: Whataboutballshrinkage?After5yearsoftestosterone,IwentoffofclomidandarimidexbecauseIdidn'tappeartoneedthemanymore,whichmyphysicianhadmeon.Iwasn'tcycling,eventhoughIprobablyshouldhavebeen.EventuallyInoticedthattheguyswerealittlesmallerthantheyshouldhavebeen.Whatareyoudoingtoprotectyourselffromthat?

John: I'monlowdoesclomid.IthinkI'mon50milligramseveryotherday.

DaveAsprey: Smart.

John: Ihavenotnoticedanytesticularshrinkageyet.Ithinkit'smoreofalongtermthing,butagain,alotofitisdosedependent.Iwastalkingtoafriendofminewhoworkswithalotofbodybuildersandprofessionalathletes.Hesays,"Everyonehasdifferentgeneticresponsestoeverything.Therearesomepeoplelikemyselfwhoaregeneticallypredisposedtoputtingonalotofmuscle,"buthe'slike,"Whatpeopledon'trealizeisthatthesamethingshappenswithsteroids,withtestosteronereplacement.Therearepeoplewhorespondlikecrazyto200milligrams.Thentherearepeoplewhocanbeon3timesthatdosageandnothavethesameresults.Everythingeffectseveryonealittlebitdifferently.

IfeellikeIamgettingalotoutofthedosewithoutanyilleffects.Yeah,I'mverycurioustoseehowitgoes,butobviouslythemainthingisevenatthisdose,onceyoucrossthe8to12weekthreshold,spermproductiondropsdramatically.ShouldmywifeandIdecidethatwedowanttohaveanotherchild,Iwillneedtocomeofffor3,4,5monthsandallowspermproductiontocomebackup.

DaveAsprey: Youcouldprobablyturnupyourclomidandhavenoproblemwiththat.

John: Yeah,youknowwhat?I'vethoughtaboutthat,exceptI'vejustspokentoalotofguyswhosaytheyjustgetalotofemotionaldamagefromclomidwheretheyjustfindthey'reveryweepy.RightnowI'mgood.I'mnotinterestedinaddinganotheremotionalhiccuptothemix.

DaveAsprey: Ihearyouthere.Allright.Nextquestion.Iknowyou'vegotanothercallafterthis.

John: Yeah.No,no,it'sgood.Igotacouplemoreminutes.

DaveAsprey: Yougotacouplemoreminutes?Allright,cool.NextquestionisthequestionI'veaskedeveryonewho'sbeenontheshow,andit'sifsomeonecameuptoyourightnowandsaid,"Look,giveneverythingthatyou'velearnedinyourlife,what3piecesofadvicewouldyouhaveformeifIwanttokickmoreassateverythingIdo?Ijustwanttoperformbetterasahumanbeing.Whatmattersmost?"

John: Environmentalexposureisthenumberonething.Justsurroundyourselfwithawesomepeoplewhoaredoingawesomethings.Ifyouwanttogetstronger,hangoutwithstrongpeople.Ifyouwanttomakemoremoney,hangoutwithpeoplewhoaremakingmoremoneythanyou.Yeah,andthatgoesforeverything.Ithinkenvironmentandcommunityareeverything.Thatwouldbethenumber1.Number2isdata.Trackasmuchasyoucanasoftenasyoucanwithoutitbecominginhibitivetoyourenjoymentoflife.Forme,thatmeansjournaling.I'mawriterfirstbeforeI'manythingelse.Formeitmeansjournalingandtakingstockoftheday,andreallytryingtoseeifI'vegrownasapersonyearoveryear.Foralotofpeopleit'sliketrackingthequantifiabledata,liketestosteronelevelsandwhateverelse.Ithinkkeepingarecordofyourlifeisimportant.Whoknows?Maybeyourbiographerwillneedthosenotesoneday.

Thenthethirdthing,Ithinkyouneedtoknowwhatyourguidingpillarsare,andthethingsthatguideyourdecisionmakingprocesses.Ithinkit'sworthwritingthosedownandalsovocalizingthem.Ithinkthatsomanytimeswegetcaughtupandwedon'tknowhowtomaketherightdecision,orwedon'tknowhowtomakethedecisionthat'srightforus.Ithinkthatforme,ifallotherthingsareequal,justdotherightthing.

IthinkthatIdon'tliketotalkinabsolutes.There'snotalwaysarightthingandawrongthing.Everythingisshadesofgrey,butusuallythere'sonethat'slessdouchey.There'sadecisionthat'sjustlikeit'sgoingto...Usuallyit'stheharderdecision,butifyoucan'tfigureouthowtomakethedecision,thenjustchoosetheoptionthatisgoingtoallowyouto...Ifpeopletoldthestoryaboutyou,you'dfeelthebestaboutit.Dotherightthing.Alwaysbe

aboveboard.Alwaysgooutofyourwayforotherpeople.Exhausteverypossibleavenuebeforecuttingties.Justleaveitallonthefield.

Forme,it'sveryimportant,beforeIendanyrelationship,whetherit'sbusinessorotherwise,thatI'mabletowalkaway,andknowingthatnoonecansayIdidn'ttry.Ithinkthatinbusiness,andI'vealwaysgoneoutofmywaytotryeverythingbeforeIshutsomethingdown,becauseIliketoknowthatItriedeverything.Iliketoknowthatwhenthestoryofmylifeistold,thethingthatwillbesaidaboutmeishealwaystriedtodotherightthing.That,forme,ishuge.

DaveAsprey: Thatshowsalotofintegrity.Icantellyououtofmorethen300episodes,you'rethefirstguesttoeversay,"Choosetheleastdoucheyoption."

John: Thankyou.Thereyougo.

DaveAsprey: Greattweetrightthere.

John: Putalittlefeatherinthecapthere.

DaveAsprey: Trulyfunny.Let'ssee.Wealreadymentioned"EngineeringtheAlpha",whichisoneofthebooksthatIabsolutelyendorse.You'reworkingonanewbookaboutthehero'sjourneyandkindofsuperheroes.Certainlythere'sasuperherovibewithwhatIdo.Doyouhavetimetotalkaboutthat?

John: Sure,sure.ForthosewhoarenotfamiliarwiththeworkofJosephCampbell,Ihighlysuggestthatyoureadacoupleofhisbooks.Themostwellknownofwhichishisseminalwork,"TheHerowithaThousandFaces,"whichistheintroductiontohisthesisofthemonomyth,orthehero'sjourney,whichisastorytellingcyclethatisapparentinallgreatstories,whetherit'stheMessianicmythofJesusorKrishnaorBuddha,orthemorerecenttalesofLukeSkywalker,HarryPotter,KingArthur,any.Theyallfollowthissame17stagecycle.IbecameintroducedtoCampbellincollege,andit'sbeenvery,veryhelpfultome,intermsofwriting,butIbelievethatthehero'sjourneyisportableandapplicabletoanygreatchangewegothroughinourlives.

Mynextbookbasicallytakesthehero'sjourneyandappliesittolife,bothintermsofpersonaldevelopmentassortofathesisforself-directedgrowth,butalsoasatoolsetforproblemsolving.Ithinkifyoulookatthehero'sjourneyandyou'reexperiencingsomethingdifficultrightnow,forsomepeopleit'sbuildingabusiness,forsomepeopleit'sgoingthroughbankruptcyordivorce.Forsomepeopleit'sbecomingafather,ormother,oranything,orjumpingintothishealthtransformation.Onedayyourdoctorgivesyouthiswake-upcall,andtheysay,"Youneedtomakethischangeoryou'regoingtodie."ThatiswhatCampbellcallsthecalltoadventure,ortheincitingevent.

Nowatfirstyou'reresistanttothat,becauseyou'relike,"It'stoohard."That'srefusalofthecall.That'sstage2.Theneventuallysomebodycomesalongwhomakesyoubelieveyoucandothat.MaybeyoulistentoBulletproofRadio.Maybeyoupickup"Engineeringthe

Alpha".Maybeyoufindoneofourwebsites.Maybeit'sDoctorOz.Maybeit'sTimFerrissorwhomever.There'sthischaracterthatappearsineverygreatstory.Whetherit'sObi-WanorMr.Miyagi,orMorpheusintheMatrix,there'sthismentorfigure.Thatisthepersonthatyoulearnfromasyoubegintogothroughthisjourney

Thenitjustgoesonfromthere,crossingthefirstthresholdtotheordeal,allthewaytothemasteroftwoworldsandreturnwiththeelixir.Ithinkthateverymajorendeavorinyourlifeandmanyofthesmallerones,again,marriage,divorce,writingabook,startingabusiness,theyallfollowthisstep-by-stepplanofthehero'sjourney.Ihighlyrecommendthateveryoneread"TheHerowithaThousandFaces",butIwillmentionitisalittledry.It'sverycumbersome,inthatCampbellmakesmostofhispointsthroughanalogyandcomparison.Inordertoreallygetthat,it'sbettertohaveastrongbasisinmythology,whichmostofusdon't.

Forthetimebeing,thebookthatIwouldrecommendisonecalled“TheWriter'sJourney"byChristopherVogler.ThisisagreatintroductiontoCampbell.Voglermakesthesesamepointsusingcomparisonandanalogy,butratherthanusingthesemythsthatyou'veneverheardof,heusesmoviesandTVshowsthatyouhaveheardof,andbooksthatyou'remorelikelytohaveheardof,everythingfrom"TheLionKing"to"BeverlyHillsCop"to"RomancingtheStone"to"Zoolander"andthingsthatarejustalittlebitmorepopcultureorientedandmorepartofthezeitgeisttowhichyouareprobablyaccustomed.Youdon'thavetogoandtryandfigureoutwhichversionof"TheRedKnight"toreadandwhichonehasalltheshitthat'sbeenexpurgated.Vogler'sworkisreally,reallyfantastic.

Thenmygoalformybookistwofold.First,Ithinkitwillhelpalotofpeople,butmybig,hairy,audaciousgoalaswesayinthemarketingworldisIwouldlikemybookonTheHero'sJourneytobethebookthatCampbellscholarsandCampbelldevoteesrecommendtopeoplewhohaveneverreadCampbellinmuchthesamewaythatIsay,"Hey,youshouldreadVoglerbeforeyoureadCampbell.Itwillhelp,"mygoalis5yearsfromnow,peoplewholoveCampbellwillbelike,"OhyoushouldreadRomaniello,thatwillbeagoodentrypointtoCampbell.ThenyoucanreadCampbell."It'sreallyabiggoal.

DaveAsprey: Whatanawesomegoal,though,andveryclearlydelineated.Ilovethat.

John: Thankyou.

DaveAsprey: Also,John,IappreciatejusthavinghadachancetorideonabuswithyouatMasterMyTalkswithJasonGanard.Justtositinandchat,youthinkaboutalotofstuff,andyou'retotallywillingtogothereonthepersonaldevelopmentfront.There'salwaysbeenaperspectivethatthat'snotmasculinetodoit.You'redefinitelyamasculineguy,andyou'retotallylike,"No,I'mgoingtoownthis.I'mjustgoingtolookatit,andit'sjustpartofthewholeequation."TimFerrississimilar.There'sjustalotofpeople.Maybeit'sbecauseI'moldat43.Mygeneration,wedidn'tdoitthatway.Theshiftisreallycool,becauseifyougetyourtestosteroneupandyou'refeelingreallygoodandyou'restillanxiousandunhappyandyouhaven'tdonethatlevelwork,you'restillgoingtoactlikejerkallthetime,right?

John: Yeah.IthinkthatIfeelveryfortunatetobepartofthegenerationtowhichIbelong,inthatIthinkthere'salotofnegativetalkaroundmillennials.I'mrightonthecuspofpre-millennial,butIwillsaythisformillennials.They'regenerallyworkingreallyhardtoestablishequality.Ithinkthatit'sreallyinteresting.Iwasraisedbywomen,andsoIhaveareallystrongfeministbent.Ihavebeenvery,veryfortunateinmymalefriendshipsthatIhaveneverbeenmadetofeelweirdforfeelingvery,verystronglyorprojectingveryvocallyintermsofwomen'srightsorrightsfortheLGBTcommunity.ThisisstuffthatIfeelverypassionateabout.I'mawarethatasawhitemale,Idon'treallyhavealotofproblems.I'veneverhadanissuegettingpulledover.IreallyamverydedicatedtousingtheplatformthatIbuilttohelpingpeople.

Tothatend,I'mrunninganeventinAustin,TexasSeptember16thto18thwithafriendofminenamedDavidDellanavecalledManCamp.Wearegoingtohavemoretraditional...We'regoingtoeatsteakandshootgunsandtalkaboutsex,butit'salsowe'regoingtohavedeep,deepconversationsaboutwhatitmeanstobeamaninsortofthemodernworld,inthecurrentenvironment,andhowwecanbemasculine,whileatthesametimepromotingfeminism.I'mreallyexcitedaboutit.Ithinkthatthere'sdeepconversationsworthhaving.

DaveAsprey: Areyousoldoutonthatevent?DoyouwanttodropaURLforpeople?

John: Yeah,honestlyit'saustinmancamp.com.Ithinkwehave6spotsleft,butyeah,ifanyoneisinterestedincoming,we'dlovetohaveyou.It'sgoingtobegreat.

DaveAsprey: ThatisrightbeforetheBulletproofConferenceSeptember23rd.

John: IsthatalsoinAustin?

DaveAsprey: No,that'sinPasadena.

John: Oh,okay.That'sright.Iknewthat

DaveAsprey: Iwasjustthinking,Idon'tknowifitwillbehelpful,youmayhavesoldthosespotsoutalready,butI'mwillingtoknock50%offtheBulletproofConferencerateforanyonewhogoestoManCamp.

John: Iamwillingtoknock50%offforManCampforanyonewhoiscominginthroughBulletproof,justletusknowwhenyou'reattheURL,andwewillgiveyou50%off.Ifyougotoboth,it'slikegoingto2eventsforthepriceof1.I'dbehappytodoit.

DaveAsprey: Beautiful,awesome.

John: Wehave7spotsleft.David,Iknowthatyou'regoingtobebusyplanningyourevent,butifyoucanmakeittoAustin,we'dlovetohaveyou.

DaveAsprey: Iwouldabsolutelylovetobethere.Maybenextyear.ThisyearIdon'tthinkI'mgoingto

makeit,butIappreciatetheinvitation.Itwouldbegreatfun.

John: Awesome.Thankyouforyourtime,man.Ireallyappreciateyouhavingmeonandlettingmejustchatwithyou.Meansalot.

DaveAsprey: Greatfun.Seeyousoon.

John: Bye-bye.

DaveAsprey: Thanksforwatching.Gettonsmoreoriginalinfotomakeiteasiertokickmoreassatlifewhenyousignupwiththefreenewsletteratbulletproofexec.com.StayBulletproof.

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