art of credit - ok..what pieces make up a good dv letter

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Old 03-10-2005, 10:59 AM

gdmiller88 cache gdmiller88 is offline Join Date: Mar 2004Posts: 235

DefaultOK..What pieces make up a GOOD DV Letter...

Lots of people on this board have some sort of DV letter that they use. Lots of them aredifferent. Some are variations of a different one, some are original. Whatever...

I just want to know what pieces make up a GOOD letter?

I'm going to assume that we can all agree on the format:

Code:

User Name

gcDOWNLOADED @ WWW.INFINITECREDIT.COM

DOWNLOADED @ WWW.INFINITECREDIT.COM


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So, what things NEED to be said in the body of the letter? I don't want to hear aboutC&D's, or limited C&D's. I just want to get straight on what makes a good DV letter.I don't care if it's in SOL, out of SOL whatever. The only assumption I want to make is that youhave just received your initial contact.__________________And the geeks shall inherit the Earth...

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Old 03-10-2005, 05:01 PM

TowerRat cache TowerRat is offlineGlobal Moderator

Join Date: Apr 2004Location: OhioPosts: 7,064

Default

Quote:

1692g(b)If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-dayperiod described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, isdisputed..."

Take a big purple crayon and write "I dispute this debt." That's all you need to do tocomply with the law and preserve your rights under 1692g(b)

Your Name

Your Address

City, State, Zip

CA Name

CA Address

City, State, Zip

Date

RE: Account Number

Greeting:

Body of letter

Closing




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(someone did exactly that according to a federal court case).

There is no magic forumla that will cause instant deletion or salvation. Seriously, I doubtthat they actually read them completely.

Having received a timely DV letter, the CA/JDB is required to either cease collection orprovide validation within a reasonable amount of time, about 90 days or so. They are not

required to complete and return any silly survey forms or questionaires and they are notrequired to provide their charter of incorporation and minutes from board membermeetings.

If you want a layout guide, that's straightforward:

Date an absolute must

Address blocks

RE: Account Number (if known)IN RE:SUBJECT:SUBJ:and variations

VIA CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED:VIA CERTIFIED MAILVIA RETURN CERTIFIED MAIL

and variations

(Greeting)

1. To write the first sentence, ask yourself what prompted you to send a DV?

I am in receipt of your initial collection notice dated February 21, 2005 which I received onMarch 15, 2005.orThis is in response to our telephone conversation which you initiated on March 2, 2005

(which escalated into a verbal altercation which then escalated into a physical altercationand several $100 million in property damages in the subsequent riots and arson fires thatfollowed).orI recently obtained a copy of my credit report on March 2, 2005 and noticed that you arereporting derogatory information.orThis is regarding the continual and annoying messages your employees keep leaving on myanswering machine.




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orI am writing concerning the profuse beating about the head and shoulders with a bluntobject that I received from your henchmen.

2. Next, meet your obligation under 1692g(b)

I dispute this debt.I dispute this alleged debt.I dispute the debt in its entirety.I dispute the character, amount and legal status of this alleged debt.I dispute this alleged debt in its entirety, including the character, amount and legal status.This alleged debt is disputed.This debt is disptuted.This debt is dipsuted in its entirety.The entire portion of this debt is disptued.

Not so hard is it? I suppose you could say "I disagree with this debt" but I think one shouldstick to the wording/phrasing used in the FDCPA.

Now you are done. Mail it off or you might wish to add some optional items. Everyoneplease note that these are OPTIONAL and NOT required, and furthermore, may NOTapply.

OPTION 3 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is licensing/ bonding. Beforeanyone embarasses themselves, they should read their state's statutes and ask questions.Not all states have licensing/bonding requirements. Of those that do, nearly all exempt

attorneys and nearly all exempt out-of-state collectors with a blanket exception or throughreciprocity. If at this point, you are still in the game, the state definition of a debt collectoris not always the same as a debt collector under the FDCPA, which means that JDBs maybe exempt since they are classified as debt purchasers and not debt collectors. Finally,contact state offices in both your state and their state to verify the that their license or bondis valid. If it is not, then say so and demand proof.

According to you have no license/bond and cannot legally attemptcollection on this alleged debt.or

Any claims you have against this alleged debt are void and forfeit, should you continuecollection efforts without providing me with competent evidence of licensure. (not reallybut maybe some will back off and of course it doesn't prevent a JDB from assigning thedebt to a CA in your state that is licensed so now you have a second TL to mess with).

OPTION 4 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is SOL.If the debt is SOL let them know.

All applicable statutes of limitation have expired.




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This debt is not collectible because all applicable statutes of limitation have expiredNo legal action can be taken since the statute of limitations has expired.

If the reporting period has also lapsed, let them know.

This debt cannot legally be reported to any credit reporting agency.

OPTION 5 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is the "inconvenience" clause(or the clause formerly known as the limited C&D).

This is optional because I suppose there are times when you don't want them to call youand there are times when you would want the CA/JDB to call you so you can record thecall and walk them through every violation in 1692e.

It is inconvenient to contact me by telephone at any place or at any time.

According to the FTC Staff Commentary on the FDCPA:

Quote:

Inconvenient or unusual times or places (Section 805(a)(1)). A debt collector maynot call the consumer at any time, or on any particular day, if he has credibleinformation (from the consumer or elsewhere) that it is inconvenient. If the debtcollector does not have such information, a call on Sunday is not per se illegal.

I don't recommend citing statutes in DV letters as it might eliminate a presumption of theleast sophisticated consumer doctrine, but you could also usePursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(a)(1), it is inconvenient to contact me by telephone at anyplace or at any time.

OPTION 6 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is a full cease and desisit. Inthe event the debt is SOL or SOL and beyond the reporting period.

There may be other times when you would want to use a full C&D, even when the

debt is inside the SOL, perhaps to force them to do something. One situation my be thatyou are seeking a mortgage, you have violations on them, so send a C&D and/orrefusal to pay.

I refuse to pay this debt.I demand you cease communication of this debt.I refuse to pay this debt and demand a cessation of all communications regarding this debt.

In this case it may might be helpful to cite statutes




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Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I refuse to pay this debt.Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I demand you cease communication of this debt.In accordance with 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I refuse to pay this debt and demand a cessation ofall communications regarding this debt.

Quote:

1692c(c) If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refusesto pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease furthercommunication with the consumer...

Note that 1692c(c) is an "or" clause. That means you can refuse to pay the debt or you candemand they cease communications or you can do both.

According to the FTC Staff Commentary on the FDCPAQuote:

1. Scope. For purposes of this section, the term "communicate" is given itscommonly accepted meaning. Thus, the section applies to any contact with theconsumer related to the collection of the debt, whether or not the debt is specificallymentioned.

Several people had a thread going (I'm embarassed to say I cannot remember who)regarding the fact that reporting to credit bureaus is a "communication" within the plainlanguage meaning of the FDCPA and there is case law to support that. As a naturalextension then, a full C&D should mean that they must also stop reporting the accountto the credit reporting agencies. There is no case law to my knowledge on this, but there isa solid foundation for a legal argument supported by the FTC Staff Commentary and caselaw.

Close it with something simple.

Have a nice day.orAll violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be reported immediately to theattorneys general and Federal Trade Commission.orMake my dayorIf you so much as twitch, I will drag you up and down the court house steps until you havea heart attack and die.




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Your signature block without a signature or signature block and "mark" are sufficient. Thisis not an affidavit nor is it a legal document and your green card is sufficient evidence.__________________Cry 'Havock!,' and let slip the dogs of credit repair; That this foul deed shall smell abovethe court house; With junk debt buyers, groaning for burial."

Emperor Julius (Act III, Scene 1, Line 268)Reply With Quote cache

Old 03-10-2005, 05:06 PM

gdmiller88 cache gdmiller88 is offlineJoin Date: Mar 2004Posts: 235

Default

Thank you very much, TR! I hope this will help people. I know it has helped me.

__________________And the geeks shall inherit the Earth...


Old 03-10-2005, 06:30 PM

Stormcrow cache Stormcrow is offlineJoin Date: Dec 2004Location: 3rd Circuit Court. Or next door.Posts: 454

Default

As always, pay close attention to Tower on this one. There's no need for anythingelaborate. I made the mistake of providing a JDB with one of those awful "everything butthe kitchen sink" validation letters last year, and fortunate I was not to pay for it. As Towernotes, they didn't bother to pay attention to my long list of demands, and they certainlydidn't bother sending back my questionaire.

If they had, they would have ceased collection activity, they would not have placed a hardpull or two tradelines on my CR within 3 weeks of receiving my timely DV, and if theyhad, they would have marked the accounts as disputed.

When they did provide validation, paltry as it was, they probably would have sued, andstood a good chance of winning. Even if they ren't likely to read the letter, why tell themwhat to do? It's their job to know and obey the FDCPA. Most won't anyways, but why givethem a primer on how to come after you in a legal fashion? If that's the case, you might aswell just break down and pay them.

Our last couple of DVs followed the Tower formula: acknowledging the date the dunningletter was received, listing the account number, disputing the debt, and adding a limited C




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& D. While neither technically "tricked" the JDB and CA into violations, I stillbelieve that both companies were possibly more inclined to pull some kind of garbagewithout a long list of actions.

Besides, it makes the JDBs think you're an ill informed consumer, and as Sacha71'smemorialized conversation shows, feigned ignorance can go a long way into goadingcollectors into violations.

If you doubt that, go over to CI.com and look at the posts by collectors whining aboutFDCPA/FCRA violations and "predatory" consumers, even as one acknowledges that heonly receives 1 dv for every 250-300 accounts.

They're annoyed because they're so profit oriented that they're almost bound to screw up,and they apparently don't have the time/organization/knowledge to avoid violations.__________________"When I grow up, I want to be a scientist." No one says they want to be a junk debt buyerwhen they grow up.

Friends don't let friends become collection agents!Reply With Quote cache

Old 03-10-2005, 06:48 PM

susanna cache susanna is offlineJoin Date: Jul 2004Posts: 136

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerRat

Quote:

1692g(b)If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within thethirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portionthereof, is disputed..."

Take a big purple crayon and write "I dispute this debt." That's all you need to doto comply with the law and preserve your rights under 1692g(b)(someone did exactly that according to a federal court case).

There is no magic forumla that will cause instant deletion or salvation. Seriously, Idoubt that they actually read them completely.

Having received a timely DV letter, the CA/JDB is required to either cease




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3 7/2/2006

collection or provide validation within a reasonable amount of time, about 90 daysor so. They are not required to complete and return any silly survey forms orquestionaires and they are not required to provide their charter of incorporationand minutes from board member meetings.

If you want a layout guide, that's straightforward:

Date an absolute must

Address blocks

RE: Account Number(if known)IN RE:SUBJECT:SUBJ:and variations

VIA CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED:VIA CERTIFIED MAILVIA RETURN CERTIFIED MAILand variations

(Greeting)

1. To write the first sentence, ask yourself what prompted you to send a DV?

I am in receipt of your initial collection notice dated February 21, 2005 which Ireceived on March 15, 2005.orThis is in response to our telephone conversation which you initiated on March 2,2005 (which escalated into a verbal altercation which then escalated into aphysical altercation and several $100 million in property damages in thesubsequent riots and arson fires that followed).orI recently obtained a copy of my credit report on March 2, 2005 and noticed thatyou are reporting derogatory information.

orThis is regarding the continual and annoying messages your employees keepleaving on my answering machine.orI am writing concerning the profuse beating about the head and shoulders with ablunt object that I received from your henchmen.

2. Next, meet your obligation under 1692g(b)




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I dispute this debt.I dispute this alleged debt.I dispute the debt in its entirety.I dispute the character, amount and legal status of this alleged debt.I dispute this alleged debt in its entirety, including the character, amount and legalstatus.This alleged debt is disputed.This debt is disptuted.This debt is dipsuted in its entirety.The entire portion of this debt is disptued.

Not so hard is it? I suppose you could say "I disagree with this debt" but I think oneshould stick to the wording/phrasing used in the FDCPA.

Now you are done. Mail it off or you might wish to add some optional items.Everyone please note that these are OPTIONAL and NOT required, and

furthermore, may NOT apply.

OPTION 3 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is licensing/ bonding.Before anyone embarasses themselves, they should read their state's statutes andask questions. Not all states have licensing/bonding requirements. Of those that do,nearly all exempt attorneys and nearly all exempt out-of-state collectors with ablanket exception or through reciprocity. If at this point, you are still in the game,the state definition of a debt collector is not always the same as a debt collectorunder the FDCPA, which means that JDBs may be expemt since they are classifiedas debt purchasers and not debt collectors. Finally, contact state offices in both

your state and their state to verify the that their license or bond is valid. If it is not,then say so and demand proof.

According to you have no license/bond and cannot legallyattempt collection on this alleged debt.orAny claims you have against this alleged debt are void and forfeit, should youcontinue collection efforts without providing me with competent evidence oflicensure. (not really but maybe some will back off and of course it doesn't preventa JDB from assigning the debt to a CA in your state that is licensed so now you

have a second TL to mess with).

OPTION 4 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is SOL.If the debt is SOL let them know.

All applicable statutes of limitation have expired.This debt is not collectible because all applicable statutes of limitation have expiredNo legal action can be taken since the statute of limitations has expired.




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If the reporting period has also lapsed, let them know.

OPTION 5 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is the "inconvenience"clause.

It is inconvenient to contact me by telephone at any or at any time.

I don't recommend citing statutes in DV letters as it might eliminate a presumptionof the least sophisticated consumer doctrine, but you could also usePursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(a)(1), it is inconvenient to contact me by telephone atany place or at any time.

OPTION 6 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is a full cease anddesisit. In the event the debt is SOL or SOL and beyond the reporting period.

I refuse to pay this debt.I demand you cease communication of this debt.

I refuse to pay this debt and demand a cessation of all communications regardingthis debt.

In this case it may might be helpful to cite statutesPursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I refuse to pay this debt.Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I demand you cease communication of this debt.In accordance with 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I refuse to pay this debt and demand acessation of all communications regarding this debt.

Close it with something simple.

Have a nice day.All violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be reportedimmediately to the attorneys general and Federal Trade Commission.

Your signature block without a signature or signature block and "mark" aresufficient. This is not an affidavit nor is it a legal document and your green card issufficient evidence.

Here's a "sample letter" template that we could all use. Can this be "stickied" somewherefor all to find?


Old 07-02-2005, 11:47 PM

enigma cache enigma is offlineGlobal Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2003Posts: 2,993




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Default

Moved to Essen. Section.__________________"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag,and begin slitting throats". Henry L Mencken


Old 07-03-2005, 08:39 PM

Nexus2 cache Nexus2 is offlineGlobal Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2004Posts: 1,889

DefaultI agree

After a very long period of disagreement, I am finally going to agree with Tower on thisone. I normally quoted statutes in my DV letters and many led to deletions of negativeTL's. However, I did not realize the potential impact on the "least sophisticated consumerdoctrine".

Further, there is no "magic formula". It's hit or miss, and a seemingly magical letter will notbe so magical after a few folks decide to use it or many variations are sent to CA's or JDB'sby consumers on a regular basis.__________________Be patient and read all you can. It takes time, patience, and tenacity.... You will appreciatethis later. (Nexus2)


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