bbl in senate | public hearing on bbl in cotabato city oct 8 2014

Republic of the Philippines CONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES

SENA TE Pasay City

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE

COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION

DATE : Wednesday, October 8, 2014

TIME : 9:00 a.m.

VENUE : Notre Dame University Gymnasium Cotabato City

AGENDA : Senate Bill No. 2408 An Act Providing for the Basic Law for the Bangsamoro and Abolishing the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao, Repealing for the Purpose Republic Act No. 9054, Entitled An Act to Strengthen and Expand the Organic Act for the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao, and Republic Act No. 6734, Entitled An Act Providing for an Organic Act For the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao; and for Other Purposes (by Senators Drilon, Sotto, A. Cayetano, Legarda, Recto, Ejercito, Binay, Escudero, Aquino, Angara, P. Cayetano, Honasan and Guingona)

ATTENDANCE

SENATORS PRESENT:

HON. FERDINAND R. MARCOS JR. - Chairman, Committee on Local Government

HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III - Chairman, Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation

1

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION Wednesday, October 8, 2014 GUESTS/ RESOURCE PERSONS:

Ms. Fatmatwati Salapuddin - Commissioner, Bangsamoro Transition Commission (BTC)

Mr. Melanio Ulama - Commissioner, BTC Atty. Bai Israhayda Sinsuat - Legal Officer, Regional

Legislative Assembly (RLA) Mr. Kelly Antao - Board Member, 1st District,

North Cotabato Hon. Moises Arendain - Vice Mayor, Carmen, North

Cotabato Hon. Simeon Datumanong - Former Representative, Lone

District of Maguindanao Atty. Datu Khadafy Blao - Vice President for External

Affairs, Bangsamoro Sharia Lawyers League of the Philippines

Atty. Mohammad Al-amin Julkipli - GPH Panel, OPAPP Col. Orlando Edralin - CO-6th Infantry Division Service

Battalion, Philippine Army (PA) Rev. Fr. Charlie Celeste - Archdiocese of Cotabato

Rev. Fr. Charlie Inzon Rev. Fr. Antonio Pueyo

- President, Notre Dame University, Cotabato City

- Vicariate, Tacurong City Sis. Maria Fe Gerodias - Religious of the Virgin Mary of Southern Mindanao Hon. Haroun Al-Rashid Lucman - Regional Vice Governor, ARMM Col. Haroun Jaji - Commander of the 6th Civil

Military Operations Battalion Atty. John Lechonsito - City Legal Officer, Tacurong City Hon. Ziaur Rahman Alonto Adiong - Majority Leader, RLA Atty. Rasol Mitmug Jr. - Assistant Executive Secretary,

Office of the Regional Governor Ms. Sharifa Pearlsia Dans - Assistant Secretary / OIC

Regional Secretary, DILG-ARMM Mr. Datu Ramil Dilangalen - Deputy Governor for Special

Concerns, Maguindanao Major Jimmy O. Matalam - 6th CMO Battalion GID,

Philippine Army Mr. Datu Antonio Kinoc - Moro Islamic Liberation Front Mr. Loreto Cabaya Jr. - Board Member, 1st District,

North Cotabato Ms. Dulia Sultan - Ex officio Board Member, 1st

District, North Cotabato Hon. Datu Roonie Sinsuat - Speaker, RLA Hon. Myrna Ajihil - Speaker Pro Tempore, RLA Assy. Majul U. Gandamra - Member, RLA

2

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION Wednesday, October 8, 2014

Mr. Janimah Pandi - Member, RLA Mr. Norodin Manalo - Executive Director, Regional

Reconciliation and Unification Commission (RRUC-ARMM)

Hon. Emmylou Lala Talio-Mendoza - Governor, North Cotabato Mr. Duma Mascud - Acting Chairman, Mindanao

Alliance for Peace Mr. Anwar Lucas - President, Kutawato

Bangsamoro Movement for Peace and Development, Inc.

Mr. Ronnie Guialel - Secretary, Peoples Coalition, Active Reform and Transformation, Inc.

Mr. Dimnatan Radia - President, Bangsamoro Executives and Leaders League

Ms. Bai Fatima Sinsuat - Chairperson, Philippine National Red Cross, Cotabato City

Mr. Abdulmannan L. Gayak - Chairman, Mindanao Alliance for Peace (MAP)

Mr. Rahib L. Kudto - National President, United Youth for Peace and Development Inc.

Mr. Rahib Payapat - Bangsamoro Youth Leaders Forum

Mr. Hamid Ladjakahal - Undersecretary, DepEd-ARMM

SENATORS STAFF:

Atty. Luzviminda D. Lavarias - O/S Marcos Atty. Jose Cadiz Jr. - O/S Marcos Ms. Gene Ferrer - O/S Marcos Ms. Gloria Ildefonzo Ms. Agnes Frogoso Mr. Ignacio Salvador R. Gimenez

- O/S Marcos - O/S Marcos - O/S Marcos

Atty. Mark Robert Dy - O/S Guingona Ms. GH Ambat - O/S Guingona Atty. Alemar Mosquito - O/S Recto Ms. Kristela Gastronuevo - O/S Recto Mr. Ben Roque - O/S Pimentel

3

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION Wednesday, October 8, 2014 SENATE SECRETARIAT:

Ms. Assumption Ingrid B. Reyes - Committee Secretary, Committee on Local Government

Mr. Elpidio H. Calica, MNSA - Committee Secretary, Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation

Ms. Sherill M. Villadiego - Committee Stenographer Ms. Rosemarie J. Ortiz - Committee Stenographer Ms. Ma. Rosalinda J. Catadman - Committee Stenographer Ms. Bathaluman H. Gonzales - Committee Stenographer Ms. Helen S. Gayapa - Committee Stenographer Mr. Clinton S. Martinez Mr. Daniel Diamzon Ms. Ana Marie F. Deplomo Ms. Avigail G. Andaya Mr. Rogelio C. Pacete

- Senate Tax Study and Research Office (STSRO)

- Assisting Staff, LCSS A - Assisting Staff, LCSS A - Assisting Staff, LCSS A - Office of the Sergeant-at-Arms

(OSAA) Mr. Warren Tan - -do- (For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

4

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-1 October 8, 2014 9:53 a.m. 1

AT 9:53 A.M., HON. FERDINAND R. MARCOS JR., CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT, AND HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III, CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION, RESPECTIVELY, CALLED THE HEARING TO ORDER.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Good morning, ladies and

gentlemen.

The hearing of the Committee on Local Government joint with

the Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation of October 8,

2014 is hereby called to order in behalf of the Committee on Local

Government.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). On behalf of the

Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation, this Senate

Committee hearing is hereby called to order.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I would like to

acknowledge, for the record, the resource persons who are here with

us this morning.

The Comsec will read for the record the resource persons we

have here today.

THE COMMITTEE SECRETARY (MS. REYES). Good morning.

From the BTC, we have Commissioner Fatmawati Salapuddin;

another commissioner is Melanio Ulama from the BTC; from the

5

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-1 October 8, 2014 9:53 a.m. 2 Regional Legislative Assembly, we have Atty. Bai Israhayda Sinsuat,

the legal officer; Board Member Kelly Antao, 1st District, North

Cotabato; and the representative of the mayor of the municipality of

Carmen, Vice Mayor Moises Arendain; former representative Simeon

Datumanong of the Maguindanao Board District; from the Bangsamoro

Shariah Lawyers League of the Philippines, we have Datu Khadafy

Blao; and the legal team for the GPH panel, we have Atty. Mohammad

Al-amin Julkipli; we also have Colonel Orlando Edralin, CO-6th Infantry

Division Service Battalion; we also have Fr. Charlie Celeste,

Archdiocese of Cotabato; Sister Maria Fe Gerodias, Religious Virgin

Mary of the Southern Mindanao Province; and, of course, the president

of Notre Dame University, Fr. Charlie Inzon. We also have Governor

Emmylou Lala Talio-Mendoza.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Very well. We will

acknowledge the presence of the other resource persons when they

arrive. I would just like to make a very quick opening statement.

On September 23, we had in the Senate the first briefing

conducted by both panels--both negotiating panels for the Committee

on Local Government and that was the first briefing that we have had.

And it became very clear that it was important that we move to come

down to all the affected areas both in and out of the proposed

Bangsamoro region. That is why we are here today and that is why we

6

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-1 October 8, 2014 9:53 a.m. 3 will be conducting hearings further into next month and probably

extending up to next year here in Mindanao. As again, this is a very

important issue and it is important to know from the locals what their

views are as to the effects of the proposed Bangsamoro Law in its

present form. I believe that we approached this as an opportunity--

another opportunity for peace in Muslim Mindanao and in Mindanao in

general. And that is why our desire for peace is so great that we must

make absolutely certain that this law, the form that it will be passed in,

is the correct form and that is why it is very important to go into as

detailed a discussion and a debate as possible because of, again, our

true desire to finally find the formula for a true and lasting peace in

Muslim Mindanao and in the surrounding areas. So with that, I give

the floor to Senator TG Guingona.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Thank you, Senator

Marcos.

Mga kaibigan, mga kaigsoonan, mga kapwa kong Mindanaoeo,

madalas natin madinig ang mga salitang ito, Para magkaroon ng

kapayapaan, kailangan matutunan natin ang paggalang ng isat-isa.

For peace to happen, it is often said that we must learn to respect one

another. Tanong ko naman, Ano ba ang dapat nating igalang sa isat-

isa? Ang karaniwang sagot, Dapat nating igalang ang ating

pagkakaiba. We must learn to respect our differences. Kapag ang

7

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-1 October 8, 2014 9:53 a.m. 4 ating Mindanao ang pinag-usapan, doon nakatuon ang pansin sa ating

pagkakaiba. Our differences, magkakaibang kultura, magkakaibang

pananampalataya, magkaibang pamamaraan ng pamumuhay. Tama

naman. At isa sa mahalagang bagay kung bakit malayo na ang

narating nitong usapang pangkapayapaan sa Mindanao ay ang

pagkilala at paggalang sa mga pagkakaiba na ating nabanggit. Ito ang

naging paalala o reminder sa atin ng yumao nating kaibigang si

Chairman Ustadz Salamat Hashim. Ang sabi niya, and I quote, Tayo

ay dalawang lahi, may magkakaibang paniniwala, magkaibang kultura

at pinalaki na magkaiba ang karanasan sa kasaysayan. Sa araw na

ito, mga kaibigan, hindi lamang ang pagkakaiba o differences ang

dapat nating tingnan at pakinggan. Sa araw na ito nang unang

pagdinig ng Bangsamoro Basic Law, sa tingin ko panahon na para mas

tingnan natin ang pagkapare-pareho natin sa halip na pagkakaiba.

Isnt it about time we look to what our people have in common and

thus unite them rather than the difference which divides us. Bumuo

tayo ng isang hinaharap. Let us build a future kung saan gagamitin

ng mga anak natin ang mga pinakamahalagang taon na ito sa kanilang

buhay sa pagkakamit ng kapayapaan at kasaganahan in the pursuit of

peace and prosperity.

Layunin natin na hanapin ang mga bagay, mga pangarap at

mga aspirasyon kung saan tayo nagkakaisa. Pagkatapos nating

8

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-1 October 8, 2014 9:53 a.m. 5 makita iyong mga bagay, pangarap at aspirasyon, iyon ang pag-aralan

natin kung ang mga iyon ay kinikilala din at bahagi ng Bangsamoro

Basic Law. As we discover the things, the dreams and the aspirations

that unite us, let us also ask whether or not those things, dreams and

aspirations are recognized and respected and celebrated by the draft of

the Bangsamoro Basic Law. Ang isa sa pinakamagandang paraan at

pagpapakita ng paggalang ay ang pakikinig natin sa bawat isa. The

best way to show respect for one another is to listen to each other.

Narito kami ngayon para ipakita ang paggalang na iyan. Tayo na po

muling makinig, makinig po tayo sa bawat isa.

Thank you.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Senator

Guingona.

I think the easiest and most orderly procedure/smv

9

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION RJOrtiz II-1 October 8, 2014 10:03 a.m. 1

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). easiest and most orderly

procedure would be for us to allow all of our resource persons to

present their positions Re: The Bangsamoro Basic Law. And after

that, perhaps, we can enter into discussion but let us hold off and

allow everyone to put into the record their positions. And that way, we

have attended to that part of the discussion and it is clear on the

record what positions the different parties hold. And, again, we will

proceed with our discussions after that. It is the interest of the

Committees that are represented here that everyone who would like to

speak will be given a chance to speak and to make whatever position,

whatever arguments, whatever points that they would like to make

concerning this. And so we will try to be as liberal as possible in

allowing everyone to speak. But, again, it would be I think very much

in the interest of good order that we first give everyone a chance to

give their positions on the question before us.

I would like to acknowledge the arrival of the Regional Vice

Governor of ARMM Haroun Al-Rashid Lucman who has arrived.

And I believe it would be proper that we begin withhe is

representing Governor Mujiv Hataman and the Autonomous Region of

Muslim Mindanao.

If you are ready, Vice Governor, we would like to go to you for

your position on the proposed Basic Bangsamoro Law.

10


MR. LUCMAN. Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi

wa barakatuh. Magandang umaga po sa lahat ng mga panauhin natin

dito sa forum na ito.

Before anything else, I would like to say my usual courtesies to

Honorable Senator Ferdinand Marcos Jr., Chairman of the Committee

on Local Government; and Senator Teofisto Guingona III, Chairman of

the Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation.

I just would like to read through the position paper of the

Autonomous Regional Government which is capsulized in eight

paragraphs:

(1) The Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao supports the

GPH-MILF peace process and the Bangsamoro;

(2) The ARMM executive department is currently revering the

Bangsamoro Basic Law in order to positively provide ideas that can

better enrich the law and its discussion;

(3) The ARMM is currently working with the GPH and MILF for

transition mechanisms that will possibly provide for non-disruption of

basic services in case the BBL is passed into law and later on ratified;

(4) The executive department is currently undertaking

consultations among our employees to be able to learn more of their

ideas, aspirations and concerns regarding the BBL;

11


(5) We are in the process of complying with the request of the

Senate and Congress to do the inventory of all assets and liabilities of

ARMM;

(6) ARMM is trying to fix and settle all obligations and

accountabilities with regard to GSIS employee loans, cash advances,

etcetera;

(7) We are looking at the end of November to provide the Senate

and Congress with meaningful inputs and updates;

And, last, rest assured that the ARMM representatives will always

be available as resource person in specific topics and participate in

fora, conferences and other activities that will support the

undertakings for peace.

Thank you.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Vice Governor

Lucman.

As the Vice Governor, have you given the committees a copy of

your position paper? If not, could we have a copy so that we can put

it in our records?

Maraming salamat, Vice Governor.

I believe it would at this point be most useful for the former

representative, Simeon Datumanong, to give us his views on the

proposed law. It will be certainly helpful because of the breadth and

12

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION RJOrtiz II-1 October 8, 2014 10:03 a.m. 4 extent of his experience on this issue which he has been involved with

for many decades now.

So Representative Datumanong, if you would give us the benefit

of your experience and wisdom on the subject.

MR. DATUMANONG. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, the Honorable

Senator Bongbong Marcos. And my respect to the other chairman,

Chairman of the Committee on Peace, Unification and Reconciliation

who used to be my colleague in the House of Representatives, Senator

TG Guingona.

Mr. Chairman, I dont know if I can really be very relevant but I

would like anyway to respond to the statement of the Honorable

Chairman of the Local Government of the Senate.

Mr. Chairman, personally, I fully support the Bangsamoro Basic

Law which is fully embodied in Senate Bill No. 2408 because it is my

considered feeling that the Bangsamoro Basic Law is the

comprehensive and lasting solution to the peace and order problem in

our part of the country, in the whole of Mindanao.

Mr. Chairman, we should remember that the peace and order

problem has been here for more than four decades and spanning the

administrations of six presidents of the Philippines from 1973. The

Bangsamoro Basic Law now is actually the attempt and hopefully the

realization of the fulfillment of the terms of the agreement entered into

13

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION RJOrtiz II-1 October 8, 2014 10:03 a.m. 5 by the government and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front. I would like

to recall, Mr. Chairman, that in the past when the government

seriously found out that the problem on peace and order has been of

such seriousness that it already saw the loss of more than 100,000

lives, our government sought the good offices of some friendly Muslim

countries. And in 1976, Mr. Chairman, the Organization of Islamic

Conference facilitated a negotiation meeting between the government

representatives and the secessionist, the Moro National Liberation

Front or MNLF in Libya/rjo

14

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION M.R. CATADMAN III-1 October 8, 2014 10:13 a.m. 1

MR. DATUMANONG. in Libyain Tripoli, Libya, which resulted

to the so-called Tripoli Agreement of December 23, 1976, and when

there was already an agreement fully signed by the representatives or

the panel of the Philippines and the MILF leadership which called for

the organization of autonomous region in Southern Philippines

composing 13 provinces, and in compliance thereof, our government,

by proclamation, organized such autonomous region in Southern

Philippines which was subject to constitutional processes which was

referendum and plebiscite. Then, in that referendum and plebiscite in

April of 1977, it was rejected by the people and in lieu thereof there

was the option to have two autonomous regions, Autonomous Regions

IX and XII. And because of the rejection, the MNLF did not take it, did

not come in, and so the problem on peace and order continued.

Continued fighting that also claimed more lives and then when the late

President Cory Aquino came in, there was the adoption of the new

Constitution which embodied provisions on the organization of

autonomous regions in Muslim Mindanao and in the Cordilleras.

Pursuant to that, Mr. Chairman, the government or the Congress

of the Philippines created the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao

or ARMM, in short. But because the terms of what was in the Tripoli

Agreement was not followed or was not contained therein the MILF did

not take it. When President Ramos came in as president of the

15

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION M.R. CATADMAN III-1 October 8, 2014 10:13 a.m. 2 Philippines there was the negotiation in Jakarta facilitated by the

Indonesian government, and this resulted to the Final Peace

Agreement between the government and the MNLF on September 2,

1996. Some terms of the agreement were embodied in a law that was

enacted by Congress which is now Republic Act No. 9054, amending

the Autonomy Act, Republic Act No. 6734, in order to strengthen and

expand the application or the operation of the autonomous region to

accommodate some of the terms of agreement. Because of that act of

the government and because this was approved, the MNLF accepted

the terms and, in fact, Chairman Nur Misuari accepted to be the

governor of the autonomous region. I am saying this, Mr. Chairmen,

because it is my considered view that when terms of agreement are

being implemented to the satisfaction of the parties, then it will solve

the problem. It is very fortunate, Mr. Chairmen, that to date there is

again an agreement between the government and the MILF, the Moro

Islamic Liberation Front, which is now the subject of House Bill No.

2408, and its counterpart bill in the House of Representative. It is

very fortunate that the chairman of the Committee on Local

Government and the chairman of the Committee on Peace, Unification

and Reconciliation are here to hold this public hearing. Because this

public hearing is not only for the Senate or Congress to understand

more about the Bangsamoro Basic Law, but it is also for the people in

16

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION M.R. CATADMAN III-1 October 8, 2014 10:13 a.m. 3 the Bangsamoro and in the provinces or areas which may be affected

by the Bangsamoro that will be benefitted for by the public hearings to

get the proper information.

And so, Mr. Chairman, let me just state likewise that this public

hearing and the indicated other hearings that the Committees will hold

and, hopefully, the counterpart committee or ad hoc committee in the

House of Representatives will do will make it easier for the ratification

of the plebiscite that may come after the approval or enactment by the

Congress of the Philippines of the Bangsamoro Basic Law. And then,

because of faithful implementation of the agreement in the fact that

there is such approval, there is such interest in the pursuit of the

approval of the Bangsamoro Basic Law, as contained in both Senate

and House bills, I think that this will now be the best legacy of the

government of the Philippines; the best legacy of the Congress of the

Philippines to the people, not only of the conflict affected areas, not

only of Mindanao, but the whole country because this will be a lasting

solution to the peace and order problem. This will now give the people

not just the convenience of pursuing their individual or collective

livelihood, but this will give rise to the economic development of the

affected areas which they have sought for quite a time because of the

neglect for decades by the government of the Philippines to look after

and take care of.

17


Mr. Chairman, I would like to state finally that it should be the

gratitude of those of us here present to the two committees of the

Senate that they have come and, hopefully, the approval of Senate Bill

No. 2408 containing the Bangsamoro Basic Law will be soon enough

and it will take into consideration the framework schedule, or the

schedule of the time frame that has been agreed upon so that there

will be more effective result of what the Senate and the House of

Representatives and the government, in general, doing for the solution

of peace in our part of the country and in Mindanao.

Thank you very much.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you, Congressman.

Before we proceed I would like to acknowledge, again for the

record, the arrival of Colonel Haroun Jaji, commander of the 6th Civil

Military Operations Battalion, and the arrival of Atty. John Lechonsito,

the city legal officer of Tacurong City.

Cong Sim, if I can ask the first question from you. You

mentioned, napag-usapan po ninyo iyong 96 agreement that was

under the Ramos administration with specifically the MNLF. Now, what

in your view will be the nature of the Bangsamoro in relation to the 96

agreement? Much has been said about the MNLFs role in all of these,

not only in these discussions but actual implementation. So, in your

view, is this a superseding event? Is this an amendment to that? Is

18

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION M.R. CATADMAN III-1 October 8, 2014 10:13 a.m. 5 that an addition? I would very much want to know not only your policy

opinion, but even your legal opinion as

MR. DATUMANONG. Mr. Chairman, it is both.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. GUINGONA). Yes, may I add also,

whatever your view is, Manong Sim, how do we at the end try to

harmonize everything?

MR. DATUMANONG. I was saying, it is both. First, this is not

the Bangsamoro Basic Law as it is now is not just an amendment. It is

repealing Republic Act No. 9054, which actually took care/mrjc

19

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-1 October 8, 2014 10:23 a.m. 1 MR. DATUMANONG. which actually took care of some of the

agreements between the government and the MNLF. However, many

of the provisions that are in Republic Act 9054, I found out to be also

incorporated in the Bangsamoro Basic Law. In a way, therefore, this

has the effect of not totally repealing but taking into its old fold those

which are relevant or which are for the more effective use of this

agreement to the peace and order problem and to the development of

Mindanao, particularly the conflict-affected areas.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Specifically because when

this agreement was signed, the MNLF declared a state of

independence. As the talks progressed, there was an uprising in

Zamboanga. And again when the Bangamoro Basic Law was given

transmitted by the President to Congress, again there was a

declaration of state of independence by the MNLF. It would seem to

indicate that the MNLF feel somehow excluded despite your

observation that many of the elements of that 96 agreement are in

the Bangsamoro Basic Law. It would seem because of the

pronouncements and the actuations of the MNLF surrounding the

progress of the negotiations which ended up with the agreement and

now the proposed Bangsamoro Law would seem to bethe MNLF

would seem to feel excluded.

20

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-1 October 8, 2014 10:23 a.m. 2 It is something that is not technically part of the law and if we

hope to succeed, certainly all the armed groups should be part of any

agreement. Otherwise, they will resort once again to the use of arms.

MR. DATUMANONG. Mr. Chairman, I feel that the reason why

Chairman Nur Misuari, after the Zamboanga unfortunate incident,

declaring independence is because, first, he was disappointed because

the government has entered into another agreement. He wanted that

there should be only one agreement. Unfortunately, there have been

two groups of the secessionist movements. Even during the Jakarta

negotiations of 1996, there was already the MILF which separated from

the MNLF for some years before that time. And the negotiation in

Jakarta did not consider the participation of the MILF. The MNLF

negotiating with the government did not even ask the government that

there is such another group as the MILF, which should be included in

the negotiation. That is one.

Second, Mr. Chairman, I think that it is not really correct to fully

believe that Chairman Nur Misuari has resorted to independence

because, as a matter of fact, he is still awaiting for the Organization of

Islamic Conference to convene the tripartite meeting between the

government, the MNLF and the MILF for certain reconciliation of some

views and for the implementation of some of the terms of the

21

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-1 October 8, 2014 10:23 a.m. 3 agreement of 1996 which have not been implemented by the

government.

So in other words, he is still pursuing what has been the effect of

the agreement of 1996. And, therefore, that is away from

independence.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Therefore, in your view,

there is no need to include in the discussion any further because, in

your view, the negotiations with the MNLF are final and you have

reached an agreement. And so that there will be no need, in your view

again, for us to adjust the BBL so that some of the elements of the 96

agreement be included.

Again, it is not a philosophical matter. It is a practical matter

because we have already seen that, again, the Zamboanga uprising

and, of course, we have heard the pronouncements coming from the

MNLF as to the state of independence.

MR. DATUMANONG. Mr. Chairman, I think the matter

concerning the MNLF can still be considered, not necessarily in the

case of the enactment of the Bangsamoro Basic Law but in the case of

the implementation of what are there in the Bangsamoro Basic Law.

For instance, when the transition authority will be called upon to

perform its duty after the ratification of what is going to be approved

by this Congress of the Philippines, then the MNLF can be members of

22

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-1 October 8, 2014 10:23 a.m. 4 the transition authority. After all, the part of the MILF in that

transition authority is only to have majority of the membership and

leadership of the transition authority but there will be so many other

members who will not be MILF, and I think that the MNLF can be in

that other part or other membership in the transition authority.

And not only that, but in the other implementation of the

Bangsamoro Basic Law when there will be election of the members of

the legislative assembly or the parliament, the MNLF can be part of the

parliament. And, in fact, if there will be majority of them, they can

organize the government and have the chief minister of the

Bangsamoro government. The approval of the Bangsamoro is not to

exclude anybody else but only an organization for the MILF. It is going

to be an organization for everybodythe MILF, the MNLF, the non-

MILF, non-MNLF, the Bangsamoro inhabitantsnot just the

Bangsamoro people who are natives of the area during the time of

conquest and colonization but also the others who have come here and

qualified under the law to become parts of the government, especially

of parliament.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Manong Sim, that is a

good point maybe because there are a lot of misconceptions that this

is exclusive government for one group. No. It is clear. For example,

like you said, the MNLF can be a member of the transition authority

23

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-1 October 8, 2014 10:23 a.m. 5 and then they can participate in the democratic process and be elected

in parliament and they can even organize parliament. And so it is clear

that this Bangsamoro is not a Bangsamoro for one group. Uulitin ko

po, very, very important pointthis is a Bangsamoro for everyonefor

everyone, including the Lumads, including the Christian settlers. I

think thats a very, very important point that should be always

repeated and driven home.

Thank you, Manong Sim, for that clarification.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Thank you.

Im sure this discussion will continue as we go on. And it is our

intention at some point to include in our hearings some authorized

spokesmanbrhg

24

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION HSGayapa V-1 October 8, 2014 10:33 a.m. 1

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). some authorized

spokesmen of the MNLF to come and to give us their view on the

subject. It is just that the subject comes up because, again, of the

uprising in Zamboanga and its stated purpose. And furthermore, the

pronouncement of the MNLF that they will not participate in the

discussions and neither will they honor the agreement and the

subsequent law that derives from it. But anyway, again, it is

something that we will have to look into further because the

implementation of this will require the cooperation of all stakeholders

involved.

I would like to acknowledge the arrival of the members of the

Regional Legislative Assembly, Speaker Datu Ronnie Sinsuat, Speaker

Pro Tempore Myrna Ajihil, the Assemblywoman Majul Gandamra,

Assemblyman Janimah Pandi. Also I would like to acknowledge the

arrival of Mr. Norodin Manalo, the executive director, Regional

Reconciliation and Unification Commission of ARMM; Duma Mascud,

the acting chairman of the Mindanao Alliance for Peace; Anwar Lucas,

president, Kutawato Bangsamoro Movement for Peace and

Development, Incorporated; Ronnie Guialel, secretary of the Peoples

Coalition, Active Reform and Transformation, Inc.; Dimnatan Radia,

president of the Bangsamoro Executives and Leaders League.

25


So, thank you, Cong Sim, for that very thorough backgrounder

on the history of this peace negotiations.

At this point, I think we can move on to Governor Lala Mendoza,

the province of North Cotabato, for her positionthe position of the

Office of the Governor, the government of Northern Cotabato.

Governor Lala, please.

MS. MENDOZA. Thank you very much.

First and foremost, thank you for making it very clear to all of us

present here that the Bangsamoro Basic or the Bangsamoro

Government or the Bangsamoro Basic Bill is not exclusive to one

organization. It is for all the Moro community, for Christian and tribe

people alike. We have been partners right from the start. We had our

share of consultation and January, if I am not mistaken, the last visit

of Professor Sheila, there were issues raised by our mayors, by our

civil society, by our board members. And today, I will articulate those

issues and that as far as February 6 in a form of resolution we

submitted to you our position, the position of the Province of Cotabato

in a form of resolution last March 11, that was formalized, submitted to

the Lower House and submitted to the Senate. So, this is how

involved we are. But, nonetheless, allow me to put on record the

issues that we raised before the panel when they visited us and

26


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I believe, Gov, that one you

sent it to the House of Representatives.

MS. MENDOZA. And the Senate.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). We did not receive that

document.

MS. MENDOZA. Well, anyway, we will be submitting it to you.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, maybe you can take us

through it.

MS. MENDOZA. All right.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And besides, we need to

put it on the record anyway.

MS. MENDOZA. Yes. There are seven issues raised.

First, for one, the barangays in the municipalities of Aleosan,

Carmen and Kabacan are not contiguous. This is an issue on being

contiguous. To the rest of the areas and the territories, these

barangays are within and surrounded by excluded barangays in the

said municipalities. Assuming they ratify their inclusion, what law shall

govern them after the ratification of the BBL insofar as matters which

under the BBL shall pertain to the Bangsamoro government to decide?

So, this is one of the issues on the issue on are they contiguous? I

have areas they are not contiguous.

27


Second, we have an ongoing boundary dispute concerning three

provinces: Maguindanao, Sultan Kudarat and North Cotabato. What

law will govern us after the Bangsamoro Basic Law?

Third, there are areas not part of the proposed core territory but

are contiguous to the said proposed core territory. Could we petition

the inclusion at least two months before the scheduled ratification?

What if the areas in the proposed core territory or the petitioner area is

contiguous to opt to be excluded from the Bangsamoro territory? Will

the petitioner area still be included even if it is no longer contiguous to

the core territory?

Number four, there are other areas not part of the proposed core

territory but are contiguous to the core territory where substantial

Bangsamoro population reside. We opt to petition for inclusion at any

time. The phrase at any time is too broad in scope. This is a matter

of concern for us because we have development programs in the area.

We have peace and order situation in the area. We do delivery of

services in the area. And so we are just wondering how to proceed to

these areas mentioned.

So, to allow inclusion into the Bangsamoro territory at any time

would greatly affect these development programs and delivery of

services as it would specifically affect the LGU share in the internal

revenue allotment.

28


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Would you have a proposal,

specific? We will go back to the question of non-contiguous areas and

then the inclusion. But now you are talking about the time because at

any time is the phrase that you find objectionable. Would you

suggest that there be a period of time?

MS. MENDOZA. We want a clarification on this because it is too

broad for us.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). And in your view, because,

as you say, it would be a waste of effort for those areas to develop

plans and to make their development plans which will never be

implemented because at some point, at any time you are not sure that

maybe those areas will ask to be included in the Bangsamoro region.

So, would you suggest that there be a time period that we do the

election after the BBL, I mean the plebiscite after the BBL tapos huwag

na o puwede pang mag-apply iyong mga ibang areas for a period of so

many years? Ano kaya sa palagay ninyo

MS. MENDOZA. Kaya nga nagtatanong kami doon iyong

inclusion na phrase at any tme they can opt to join. Ano iyon?

Hanggang kailan iyon? Kung hindi siya core territory at mayroon

siyang populasyon at ito ay nasa probinsiya namin and we take care of

them, we have programs particularly in that barangay at gusto niyang

sumama sa core territory, hindi ba nandoon sa FAB na at any time?

29

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION HSGayapa V-1 October 8, 2014 10:33 a.m. 6 Kaya gusto naming malaman anong ibig sabihin noong at any time

na iyong 10 percent they come together mere petition or through

resolution ng barangay? So, ano iyon? Saan iyon at hanggang kailan

iyon? Kasi kung i-suma-total mo iyan

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Well, pag nakalagay at

any time, ibig sabihin at any time.

MS. MENDOZA. That is why we want clarification on this.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I think what we are

speaking of here is the time limit after perhaps the regional plebiscite

and I quite understand having been a governor myself how that might

make your development implementation a little hesitant if there is

always the possibility that you will eventually be included in the

Bangsamoro under a different administration and therefore under the

different plan. So, again, is there a time period that you think would

be a reasonable time period within which any LGU who would like to

join the Bangsamoro can still join the Bangsamoro but beyond which

there is a cutoff? So, would you suggest five years? Would you

suggest 10 years, one year/hsg

30

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-2 October 8, 2014 10:43 a.m. 1

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). one year?

MS. MENDOZA. How is that related to the amendment of the

Constitution? How long can we introduce amendment to the

Constitution or revise the Constitution? I dont know. Changing a

name of a street, it takes you 10 years, right, before you can change

the name of a street to another name. But with the Constitution,

what is your barometer here? So kailangan hindi siyamay time

frame siya dapat. Kaya nga you have to guide us through here.

Kaming nasa ground, we are doing our share. Hindi namin alam

hanggang kailan.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Yes. But I think what

we are asking also is that--

MS. MENDOZA. Our suggestion.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Okay. Yes, what is your

suggestion?

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). We dont need to put you

on the spot here but maybe just to move the discussion forward

MS. MENDOZA. We are supportive to any peace program here

in North Cot or in Mindanao kaya nga February pa langkaya nga

iyong mga plebisito kasama kami na naghingi na kailangan may

plebisito. Ngayon lumabas iyong agreement, so kagaya nang

miyembro ng Kongreso iniisa-isa din natin. Iniisa-isa rin namin.

31

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-2 October 8, 2014 10:43 a.m. 2 Apparently, wala kaming nakitang maging basehan naay limang

araw ba, limang buwan ba, isang taon ba? But allow me to bring you

to our last issue na ni-raise namin.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). You have, I think, seven.

MS. MENDOZA. We have. Kasi itong seven, parang kokonekta

ito dito barangay.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. All right, please.

MS. MENDOZA. Halimbawa, mayroong power generation na

gustong gawin sa isang barangay. Magsisimula tayo ng exploration.

Tapos hindi siya core territorynagsimula na kami ha. Hindi siya core

territory at gusto niyang sumama, at umusad na kami. Binigyan na

namin ng endorsement iyong barangayiyong si Aboitiz ba or si EDC,

Sige, proceed with the development of the renewable energy. Then

nagkaroon tayo ng Bangsamoro government. Kaya sabi namin, ano

iyong magiging sitwasyon ng mga programa o proyekto or negosyo

doon sa areas na ma-govern na ng Bangsamoro government. Na dati

iyong mga linatag naming mga fundamentals ay amin at ngayon mag-

a-adjust pa sila dahil Bangsamoro government na. Tulungan ninyo rin

kami.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I understand exactly what

you are saying. Iyong mga administrative nga na question ang

nagiging problema. In our first briefing, because it wasnt technically a

32

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-2 October 8, 2014 10:43 a.m. 3 hearing, but in our first briefing, immediately the implementation of

some of the principles and concepts became into question. We never

even arrive at a discussion on the legalities on very, very marginally

but mostly the questions were the administration. And again, the

formula for the balance of power which is also what you are talking

about between not only the Bangsamoro government and the republic,

but the Bangsamoro government and the surrounding local

government units. So although what you are asking for is a

clarification to make it more definite in terms of the time period and

then should there be a change in LGUtama ba iyong sinasabi ko--

kapag nagbago ang LGU at sumama sa Bangsamoro government o

sumailalim sa Bangsamoro government, papaano ngayon ang

magiging administration noong dating provincial government doon nga

sa?

MS. MENDOZA. Yes, sir. And, for example, mayroon kaming sa

sentro. Nasa gitna siya, may mga peace and order concern kami,

paano namin ma-implement iyong aming karapatan na bigyan ng

hustisya iyong nangangailangan na hindi na namin teritoryo and yet

nasa loob siya ng aming teritoryo? So again, let me be clarified on

this. These issues were raised. In February, we sent these for the

guidance of OPAPP and now we just want to put this on record before

the Senate and as well as for the Members of the House to guide us

33

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-2 October 8, 2014 10:43 a.m. 4 through for the clarification and all. And iyong panglima, if the

proposed core territories opt to be excluded from the Bangsamoro

during the ratification, could such area petition for the inclusion

sometime later? Pwede ba siyang humabol kasi mayroon din kaming

nangunsulta kamimayroon ding nagsabi na pwede kaming humabol

after ng plebisito.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN.MARCOS). Yes. May mechanism,

itanong lamang. I will just let you finish everything youre saying

tapos maybe the OPAPP can give us some guidance on this. But it is

very clear that with the 10 percent vote of qualified voters and the

resolutions from the sangunian they can opt to have a plebiscite to

decide whether or not to be included in Bangsamoro. That is the very

clear mechanism that is laid out both in the agreement and in the draft

bill.

Yes.

MS. MENDOZA. Iyong problema talaga namin, kasi may 39

barangays kami. Saan sila mapupunta? Kaya nga ang nangunguna sa

consultation iyong aming ABC president si Maam Dulia Sultan at iyong

chairman ng Committee on Peace. Sila talaga ang namuno ng

consultation and they are all from the core community because we

wantthe true sentiment will come out. So saan nga--iyong tanong,

saan kami pupunta kapag um-oo kami? Kaya nga pinut (put) in

34

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-2 October 8, 2014 10:43 a.m. 5 writing namin dahil hindi nga ito siya nasagot noong nandoon iyong

ilang miyembro ng panel noong January. Kaya ito ngayon, sinulat

namin. Sabi namin, Maam, i-put in writing na lang namin iyong hindi

ninyo masagot. Sabi niya, Sige para maguide-an ang miyembro ng

OPAPP, ang Senado at ang House of Representatives.

And lastly, on the issue of ancestral domain. Mayroon kaming

tribe people. More than 10 percent sa North Cot ay tribe people. Sa

Bangsamoro na setup, co-equal sila, subservient sila. We want

clarification here. Tapos ano iyong ancestral domain na iyon as

against doon sa vested rights? Kasi tapos na iyong nangyayari sa

Zamboanga, mayroon kaming mga nireresolbang konplikto kagaya

kahapon. Minsan may away sa lupa, MI-MI, MI-MN, Muslim-Lumad,

Muslim-Christian, Christian-Christian. Kasi nagkakaroon ng

misunderstanding na kapag Bangsamoro na, iyong lupa magiging

kanila. We have pockets of rido. I am just glad that the military, the

PNP, and all the leaders or North Cot, together with our mayors, we

dont go to media anymore. We just do our share how to reconcile and

let people understand na kapag may titulo, kailangang respetuhin

unless ibebenta niya ulit. Kung nagkaroon ng fraudulent acquisition

doon sa lupa at namali iyong pagtitulo, magka-cancellation ng title.

Kung okay ka naman dahil nag-amicable kayo, magko-confirmation of

sale kami. Or kung hindi talaga, magre-resurvey kami at mag-i-issue

35

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION SMVilladiego I-2 October 8, 2014 10:43 a.m. 6 ng mga titulo. So ito iyong mga intervention pero mayroong mga

pockets of situations that we are seriously handling para hindi na--

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. Thank you.

Mayroon ka pa bang points that you wanted to raise?

MS. MENDOZA. Iyon lang at idadagdag ko na lang na kung

matuloy man iyongmagkaroon na ng plebisito para sigurado iyong

sentimyento ng 39 barangays namin na ma-manifest nila, we want a

military presence in all 39 barangays. We want the military to secure

iyong mga botante na magye-yes or no/smv

36


MS. MENDOZA. na mag-yes or no para wala nang mga

kutso-kutso(?) ba pa, magkaroon ng transparency. Ano ba talaga ang

kanilang gusto?

So I will submit to the Senate the resolution as adopted last

March 11--approved by the sangguniang panlalawigan as of March 11,

2013 and submitted to OPAPP right away, to the Senate and to the

House.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Very well. I think at this

point siguro bago natin palagpasin iyong mga puntos na ni-raise ni

Governor Lala, maybe we can ask OPAPP, their representative, Atty.

Mohammed Al-Amin Julkipli to answer the points. Lets take them one

by one. There is the question again--because of the 39 separate

barangays that are non-contiguous, there are several questions. The

governor raised one in that how is the administration of those etcetera,

etcetera. I would like to add another one because those 39 barangays

were chosen to be included during the plebiscite because they voted to

join ARMM. But because they were not contiguous, they were not

allowed to join ARMM. Why is it different now with Bangsamoro?

Because even if the plebiscite wins in those 39 barangays, theyre still

non-contiguous and on the basis of what happened in the ARMM

situation, they were not included in the ARMM. Why are they now

allowed to be included? What changed? What is the difference?

37


MR. JULKIPLI. With the indulgence of the Chairpersons,

Senator Bongbong and Senator TG.

On that question po with regard to what happened during the

plebiscite and how the treatment of the votes for affirmativeduring

the 2001 plebiscite. The difference po with that case and what were

doing in the proposed BBL is, during the 2001 plebiscite under 9054

ang reckoning po kasi ng affirmative votes for inclusion were at the

provincial level. And therefore even if individual barangays nanalo but

counted against the whole province, iyong province po iyong ika-count.

So ganoon iyong case in North Cotabato that in 2001, majority of the

votes in the province voted for no except for these packets na

barangay levels. And when we were doing the negotiations, one of the

principal considerations for determining what areas should be

considered for the first plebiscite was giving expression to the consent

of the governed. And in 2001, it was considered that at least in these

specific barangays, there have been expressions of consent to be part

of an autonomous region except that the legal framework then did not

allow them. And when we were evaluating that position, we looked at

the Constitution

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). To give us some historical

perspective, why were they not allowed then to join the ARMM, what

were the reasons?

38


MR. JULKIPLI. Kasi po the province itself voted no. So

counted against the vote of the province, the yes votes from these

individual barangays lost. So hindi po sila nakasali. Kasi po under the

2001 law, hindi po pwede ang barangay level na sumali in an

autonomous region. And in this proposed BBL, we are proposing na

even at the level of the barangay, i-allow po silang mag-join sa isang

autonomous region.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Why?

MR. JULKIPLI. The basis for that po is Article X, Section 15

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Wait, to go back. Lets go

deeper into the question, not the law. But what is the reason for them

not being allowed in the creation of the ARMM in the previous law?

What were the reasons that they were not allowed to be part? I

would imagine it has something to do with the administration,

something to do with the province that they will be under, etcetera.

Why is it different now?

MR. JULKIPLI. Principally, po ang consideration natin before

was the provision of 9054 itself. So the ARMM law itself provided that

for inclusion kailangan po province. So therefore at the level of the

law itself pa lang hindi na na-allow iyong individual

39


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But during the briefing in

Manila before the Senate, it was also per province for the Bangsamoro

region.

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So why is it different? Why

will they be allowed to join now? Because the reasons for them not

being allowed to join still maintain and so how is it that they are now

being allowed whereas before they were not allowed?

MR. JULKIPLI. Well, just for reference po under the proposed

BBL, magkaiba po iyong treatment natin sa core ARMM geographic

areas at present. So sa counting po sa present ARMM areas, province-

wide. But for other areas like the six municipalities in Lanao Norte and

the 39 barangays, hindi po sila by province, by municipality and by

barangay.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Again, why when it was not

allowed before, why is it being allowed now?

MR. JULKIPLI. Kasi po, iyon po as I have said earlier, the

guidance was asking again the people who voted before for inclusion if

they still wanted to be included now. And iyong impediment po nila

before--

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Well, you know, we are

leading to the question that the governor brought up is how do you

40

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION RJOrtiz II-2 October 8, 2014 10:53 a.m. 5 administer them? For example, if some of the 39 barangays

eventually vote to join, how will they be administered? Do they still

belong to the same province? Do they still belong to the same cities

because we are talking of same towns? Sino ang kanilang superior

sanggunian? Sino ang kanilang superior LGU?

MR. JULKIPLI. Sir, ang operative effect po ng vote nila in the

plebiscite would be for them to be constituted as independent LGUs na

po. Even as geographic areas.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). So are we saying that

its possible that we have islands ofits surrounded by the province of

North Cotabato then you have an island that island barangay that is

Bangsamoro?

MR. JULKIPLI. Yes, sir, ganoon po ang--may mga enclaves na

parang nakahiwalay from the mother unit.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Dont you think there

are some administrative issues and problems that will crop up when

you have that situation?

MR. JULKIPLI. Well, yes, sir, we recognize that there will be

administrative difficulties. In fact, marami po talagang problems with

respect to local administration that will really have to be clarified. But

with respect to the effect ng kanilang vote, well, at least on our part, it

should be part of the decision-making during the plebiscite that part of

41

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION RJOrtiz II-2 October 8, 2014 10:53 a.m. 6 the decisions that they should be able to make is the consideration of

the local administration problems or issues that might crop up as a

result of that vote. In other words, its not enough for them to just

decide that they want to join the autonomous region, they also have to

consider that the operative effect of their vote would be their

separation from their mother unit and that they will be an isolated part

from the main region and all of these complications.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. But nevertheless the

vote is in, they understand what they are voting for and what the

implications of one vote or the other are. Pag nanalo pa rin ang

Bangsamorosumama pa rin sila sa Bangsamoro, the question still

remain, how will they be administered? To put it back in the words of

the governor, saan sila? Nasaan sila? Sa ilalim pa rin sila ng parehong

probinsiya o iba na ang probinsiya nila? Again, kasi barangay sila, iba

na ba ang bayan nila? Anong mangyayari sa kanila?

MR. JULKIPLI. Bale po as provided in our agreements with the

BBL, they will be under the administration of the regional government

who will have the competence to organize their own local government

units. So upon the enactment of the parliament, pwede po silang

i-organize into an LGU, pwede po silang masailalim sa nearest

municipality or however the parliament wishes to reconfigure these

areas. And then iyong

42


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Is it possible that they will

be put under a town that is within the Bangsamoro area and therefore

non-contiguous with that barangay?

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Its a question that I raised

during the hearing. Again, our local government instincts are coming

out and we were trying to figure outwe have to assess really what

will be the effect of that and see if it is a practicable solution to have

islands. Im looking for the map that was given us by OPAPP during

our/rjo

43


THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). during our briefing para

makita niyo kung ilan iyongiyong 39 barangays actually ang

nakakalat that are away from theAnyway, Attorney, perhaps you can

move on to the other issues that were raised by the governor about

the language wherein another LGU may join Bangsamoro at any time.

And this presents, again, practical problems, as laid out by the

governor. Maybe you can give us some

MR. JULKIPLI. Actually, at present, we worded po in this

proposed formulation for the BBL iyong at any time has no limit yet

in terms of time. And I think according also to suggestions and that is

also for their debate later, there might be a suggestion to put some

sort of an interval or a time limit, pero just to respond po doon sa

clarity issue, as of now, iyong at any time, po is still not defined. So,

therefore, we understand it as at any time. Opo. So as of now, wala

po siyang time frame or time interval, so its still open. And, anyway,

iyong suggestions naman po should be duly taken if its practicable and

feasible to put an interval or a time frame kasi as of now wala pa po

iyong at any time.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). The OPAPP is open to an

amendment in that regard where we could put a time limit.

MR. JULKIPLI. Well, the position naman po is we will always

defer to the collectivism of our legislators in this

44


THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Okay, that is something

again that we need to define.

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Now, another transition

problem that was raised by Governor Lala is if a province or an LGU

decide to join Bangsamoro later on, what will be the transition

mechanism for the local provincial government to the Bangsamoro

government now?

MR. JULKIPLI. Well, actually

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Lets say, two or three

years down the road.

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. So, actually, maam, that should be

addressed by the local government enactment that the Parliament of

the Bangsamoro will make and similar to the provisions on the BTA,

the transition authority thats provided here, dapat in that local

government enactment there should be a provision there respecting

transitioning. For example, for LGUs that will join under the opt-in

provision, there should be a provision in that law that should address

the transition problem. Otherwise, iyong provision po under the

current Local Government Code, since this is an existing municipality

outside the territory should also apply suppletorily. So, either we have

45

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION M.R. CATADMAN III-2 October 8, 2014 11:03 a.m. 3 7160 provision with respect to transitioning or the Local Government

Code that the parliament will enact or both po.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). R.A. 7160 does not

address the situation wherein an LGU will join an autonomous region.

I think the assumption, when the Local Government Code was written

was it would remain static and would not change. But we are now

introducing a capacity for changing in the administration. Again, is this

something that was intentionally left open for the Congress to try and

put a more definitive mechanism?

MR. JULKIPLI. Well, as of now, sir, there is no language for

that in this proposal, so I think that is an opening. But with respect to

the process po when this was negotiated, really, when it comes to

local administration matters po as an exclusive power of the regional

government, ito po ay dapat subject din to the enactment of the

parliament itself. So, the situation for the opt-in should be

accommodated in that Local Government Code since the mother law or

the BBL provides for it. And puwede naman pong maglagay ng

definitive arrangement for that so that pag nag-enact na po ang

parliament may guidance sila from the BBL to that effect.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Before we proceed, we just

like to acknowledge the arrival of Dr. Pearlsia Dans, chairperson,

Regional Executive Association of ARMM; Rahman Angwe have two

46

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION M.R. CATADMAN III-2 October 8, 2014 11:03 a.m. 4 Rahman Adiong, Majority Floor Leader of the Legislative Assembly;

Datu Ramil Dilangalen, who is the deputy governor from Maguindanao,

former mayor of Northern Kabuntalan; and Bai Fatima Sinsuat of the

Philippine Red Cross who has also arrived.

MR. JULKIPLI. Mr. Chairman, I think there was one issue

about the tribe people and the IP.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). Im sorry, the?

MR. JULKIPLI. About the indigenous people and ancestral

domain po.

THE CHAIRMAN. (SEN. MARCOS). The IPs, okay.

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. I just like to address that so just to clarify

po, maam, when we talk of indigenous peoples, they are absolutely

treated as equals. Like as we have in our present system of laws lahat

naman po tayo ay pantay-pantay. As I said earlier this is not for one

group, this is for everyone. Actually, in our proposed BBL po, our

brother indigenous peoples have been given the due recognition ng

kanilang special status as minority group. And, therefore, marami po

ditong mga affirmative provisions which favor iyong ating mga IP

brothers. So with respect to, halimbawa, the ancestral lands and their

claims for these territories, lahat po iyan provided din for in our basic

law. At pag ito po ay na-awardan ng title, this qualifies as vested

47

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION M.R. CATADMAN III-2 October 8, 2014 11:03 a.m. 5 right. And under our framework agreement, vested right should be

respected, opo.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Atty. Julkipli, what about

the IPRA? What about the provisions specifically stating that the IPRA

Law shall be respected? What do you think of that?

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. Actually, in this proposed formulation for

the proposed basic law, the core principles and guaranties provided in

the IPRA has already been disaggregated and provided in several

provisions here. So, actually, IPRA itself although the word IPRA

does not appear, iyong kanya naman pong nilalaman have already

been incorporated and integrated in various provisions in this proposed

BBL. And what were doing here is giving enough space for our future

parliament and even the participation itself in that parliament of our

brother IPs, for the formulation and crafting of their own Indigenous

Peoples Law na dapat magte-take off from the basic principles

contained here. So it should be contained in that enactment later also.


Thank you, Governor Mendoza.

Thank you, Attorney, for that quick exchange pero marami pa

siguro iyong mga detalye. It really is in the details that the discussions

have been quite lengthy.

48


I would like to acknowledge again, before we proceed, the arrival

of Dr. Abdulmannan Gayak, the chairman of the Mindanao Alliance for

Peace; Datu Antonio Kinoc, MILF Peace Panel; Rahib Kudto, Member

of the Third Party Monitoring Team; president of UNYPAD.

At this point since the speaker of the Regional Legislative

Assembly has arrived perhaps if hes ready, Speaker Ronnie Sinsuat, if

you would like to give us your thoughts and views on the proposed

Bangsamoro Basic Law.

Thank you, Speaker.

MR. SINSUAT. Maraming salamat. The Honorable Chairman of

this Committee, Senator Marcos, Senator Guingona, at sa aking mga

kasamahan, nandito po si Assemblyman Adiong, Assemblyman Ajihil,

Assemblywoman Ajihil, Assemblywoman Pandi, and Assemblyman

Atty. Gadamra, at sa mga stakeholders, asalaamu alaikum, wa

rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Una po sa lahat ay nais kong ipaabot ang

taos puso naming pasasalamat sa Senate Committee on Local

Government sapagkat kaloobin ito ng panahon sa atin ngayon upang

tayo ay mabigyan ng pagkakataon na ilahad at ipaabot ang ating

pananaw/mrjc

49

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-2 October 8, 2014 11:13 a.m. 1 MR. SINSUAT. ang ating pananaw sa panukalang batas sa

Bangsamoro Basic Law. Ang regional legislative assembly ng ARMM ay

sumusuporta sa panukalang batas na ito.

Our longing for peace in our homeland sees a silver lining upon

the filing of the bill containing the BBL. As a matter of fact, to show

our sincere support, we have detailed our suggestions and

recommendations to the BBL which, in our humble opinion, will

enhance or strengthen the proposed law. The said suggestions and

recommendations are incorporated in our position paper which we

have submitted to this Honorable Committee.

Sa kabuuan po, labis ang aming paghanga sa panukalang batas

na ito na nagsisiguro na sa magandang kinabukasan para sa ating

mamamayan. Nais ko rin pong samantalahin ang pagkakataong ito

upang manawagan sa lahat na makilahok sa diskusyon upang marinig

po ang bawat sektor ng lipunan. This is our time to do our part as a

proud Bangsamoro.

Maraming-maraming salamat po at wassalamualaikum

warrahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Maraming salamat,

Speaker Sinsuat.

Nandito sa akin ang inyong position paper. At ang isang issue na

binabanggit ninyo rito ay tungkol nga sa empleyado ng ARMM, kung

50

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-2 October 8, 2014 11:13 a.m. 2 ano ang mangyayari sa mga empleyado ng ARMM. Will they be

separated from the service, kung sila ba ay will be incorporated into

the?

To give a partial answer to that question, noong itinanong namin

nga ito sa una naming briefingactually, ang naitanong namin ay hindi

tungkol lamang sa empleyado kundi tungkol sa mga ahensyakung

ano ang mangyayari sa mga agencies of government ng ARMM. And

the explanation that was given to us is that the new Bangsamoro

government, the parliament will decide which agencies to keep and

which to abolish and reorganize those agencies that will continue to

exist. Hindi namin naabot iyong kung papaano ang gagawin sa mga

empleyado kung ano ang magiging status nila.

So perhaps we can go back to Atty. Julkipli on that issue. Anong

mangyayari sa mga present na government employees na nasa ilalim

ng ARMM pagkatapos ng reorganization by the Bangsamoro

Parliament?

Ang tanong siguro is, halimbawa, kung ma-reorganize ang isang

agency, anong mangyayari sa mga empleyado? Will they maintain

their Civil Service status, they pay grade, etcetera? If the agency is

abolished, ano naman ang mangyayari doon sa mga empleyadong

iyon? I think these are the two key questions na itinatanong ng lahat.

51

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-2 October 8, 2014 11:13 a.m. 3 MR. JULKIPLI. Actually po, kasama na doon sa plan or

transition plan na binubuo ng ARMM regional government ngayon in

partnership with the parties to the peace agreement iyong magiging

treatment po doon sa mga empleyado. So may binubuo po tayong

transition plan which will include the details of what will happen to the

employees.

Doon po sa ating huling meeting on normalization, na-iron out na

po iyong details for these transition arrangements. So wala pa poAs

of now, hindi pa po naha-hammer down lahat ng details with respect

to how or what will happen to the employees, except that under this

agreement, the central government, meaning, national government,

commits to create transition plan, including iyong mga packages and

iyong due compensation in cases of employees that might be

separated or would opt for early retirement. But precisely, who will

qualify would still be determined po in a transition plan thats still

being hammered down.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). So OPAPP would have

no problems if we make these provisions clear with regard to the

security of tenure of the employees?

MR. JULKIPLI. Well, opo. Kasi that is anyway an entitlement

of these employees. So if a provision like that would be

52

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-2 October 8, 2014 11:13 a.m. 4 THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). And if they are

qualified, they will be retained.

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. But what we ask right now is hintayin

lang muna iyong proposals noong transition team, ironing out the

details kasi there is an ongoing consultation process doon po sa mga

employees.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). There is a consultation

process with the employees?

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo. May binubuo po tayong transition team

na ARMM government and

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). The regional vice

governor is here. Is there a consultation ongoing with OPAPP and the

employees?

MR. LUCMAN. Yes, Mr. Chairman. There is an ongoing

consultation between and among the employees of the autonomous

region.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Dapat matapos iyan

before we pass the law so that we can incorporate the agreement in

the law.

MR. JULKIPLI. Actually, nabuo na po iyong membership

noong team and they are daw in the process of

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Kailan kayo matatapos?

53

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-2 October 8, 2014 11:13 a.m. 5 MR. JULKIPLI. Unfortunately, wala pa po akong information

kasi nasa initial stages pa po ito. I think we could ask Deputy ES

Mitmug.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). Atty. Mitmug.

MR. MITMUG. Senator, there will be a first meeting between

GPH, MILF and OPAPP on October 24th and 25th. One of the issues

would be the employees. Actually, we are trying to reach out to CSC

and CSC-ARMM to provide us with rules and guidelines on how these

things go about and what the employees should receive in instances

when this happen. So its an ongoing process.

We are also talking to, not only ARMM employees as just

employees but we are also talking to associations in ARMM. For

example, the leadership of the Regional Executive Association of ARMM

which is Asec Dansshe is here. She would also want to voice out

their concerns as employees. So we are talking to our employees not

just as employees but through their associations as well.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). I suggest you finish

that by the end of October para whatever has been agreed upon, we

can include it already in the BBL.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Are there any proposals on

the table already as to how to handle that transition?

54

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-2 October 8, 2014 11:13 a.m. 6 MR. MITMUG. Yes, sir. GPH, MILF and the ARMM would be

meeting once a month and we will be tackling it by topics. For

example, the first topic would be

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Im sorry, did you say,

once a month?

MR. MITMUG. Once a month. But this will be at least two

days, the whole day.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Yeah. But October,

November, December, Januaryso you only have three more meetings

this year?

MR. MITMUG. We have been talking for a long time now,

Senator. But with the suggestion, we can maybe increase more the

meeting with OPAPP and MILF.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). I would suggest that

simply because we are on a very severe time pressure.

MR. MITMUG. Yes, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Because the proposed

month for the holding of the plebiscite is March. That is what we are

hoping to do but for such a complex question, I dontWhat are the

other issues that you will be discussing?

MR. MITMUG. First, sir, the issues that are requested to be

discussedInitially, there has been a request in relation to Block

55

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION BRHGonzales IV-2 October 8, 2014 11:13 a.m. 7 Grant. They wanted to know what are currently the programs in

ARMM, what are the programs not download in ARMM so that the

Coalition Block Grant can be discussed further. So there would be a

topic for that.

And there would also be issues on frontline services. In case the

law is passed and ratified, what can be done so that the frontline

services that is being delivered in ARMM currently would not be

stopped immediately and it would flow smoothly during the time when

the ARMM is ratified and during the time that the BTA takes the place

of the leadership of the Bangsamorobrhg

56


MR. MITMUG. leadership of the Bangsamoro.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Well, very well. As you can

imagine, both the ad hoc committee in the House of Representatives

and our committee in the Senate will be very, very interested to know

what are the results of those meetings and I hope that they will

transmit to us immediately whatever subjects are covered as they are

covered. Huwag na nating antaying matapos lahat. Halimbawa pag

napag-usapan na ninyo iyong mga empleyado, puwede ninyong

sabihan na kami. Pagka mayroon na kayong another subject na

natapos, ibigay na ninyo kaagad sa amin.

MR. MITMUG. Yes, Senator.


MR. MITMUG. Actually our commitment is based on our

statement earlier that as of November we will immediately make

meaningful insights and meaningful updates in relation to ARMM.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Okay. Thank you.

To go down, I have in front of me the position paper of the

Regional Legislative Assembly as summarized by Speaker Sinsuat.

There is also a point that is raised by the Legislative Assembly that the

Bangsamoro Transition Authority would assume office before the

expiration of the term of office. Is that something that we can in fact

57

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION HSGayapa V-2 October 8, 2014 11:23 a.m. 2 do because it is enshrined in law that the terms are of a certain length

and we cannot arbitrarily cut them short?

So, again, Attorney, if you would like to explain to us how this is

supposed to work.

MR. JULKIPLI. The reason for allowing the coming of transition

government even ahead of the expiration of an elective term is

because of the abolition of the offices. So, because the ARMM itself is

deemed abolished upon the repeal of this organic law, the terms of

office that comes with the autonomous region are also deemed

abolished and thereforeso that basic services are not hampered and

also to ensure transition, we will install a transition government. So,

that is the reasoning behind that mechanism.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). All right. There is another

point raised by the position paper of the Regional Legislative Assembly

in the question of parliamentary districting and the districts, these will

be altering the boundaries of present congressional districts. So,

again, are these amendments to the laws that are creating these

districts--how is this supposed to be handled? Because the definition of

many of those districts are actually contained in theno, the definition

of congressional districts is contained in the Constitution. So, maybe

why is this not a constitutional question? It is probably the question

here.

58


THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. GUINGONA). And in addition, I would

like to find out why it is appended already to the BBL. Who drafted

these new districts and what was their basis?

MR. JULKIPLI. Well, to answer po the first question of the

good senator, first we have to be able to clarify that parliamentary

districts are different from congressional districts. In fact

congressional representation in the House, hindi po iyan tina-touch ng

ating BBL.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). So, to be clear, the

congressional districts will remain?

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). As is?

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). Hindi magbabago iyan?

MR. JULKIPLI. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN (SEN. MARCOS). But the parliamentary

districts will not be the same as the congressional districts.

MR. JULKIPLI. Hindi po. The parliamentary districts are solely

for purposes of representation in parliament. It will not affect po

representation in the House. So, we are apportioning parliamentary

districts only for parliamentary district representatives in the

parliament. In connection na din po to the question of Senator

59

COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT JOINT WITH THE COMMITTEE ON PEACE, UNIFICATION AND RECONCILIATION HSGay

bbl in senate | public hearing on bbl in cotabato city oct 8 2014

Documents

north cotabato

regional reconciliation

cotabato city vicariate

organic act

regional governor

local government joint

purpose republic act

muslim mindanao