(c) crown copyright catalogue reference:cab/23/62 image...
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(c) crown copyright
Catalogue Reference:CAB/23/62 Image Reference:0014
j g l g DOCUMENT I S THE PROPERTY OP H I S BRITANNIC MAJESTY 1 S GOVERNMENT).
R S T . Copy N o .
C A B I N E T 4 9 (.29) .
M e e t i n g o f t h e C a b i n e t t o b e h e l d a t N o . 1 0 , D o w n i n g S t r e e t , S . W . , , o n WEDNESDAY, 2 0 t h
N o v e m b e r , 1 9 2 9 , a t 1 1 . 0 a . m .
A G E N D A .
1 . FOREIGN AFFAIRS . ( I f r e q u i r e d ) .
2 , THE QUESTION OF GERMAN PROPERTY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM.
3' ' THE COALFIELDS DISTRESS FUND.
( Q u e s t i o n t o b e r a i s e d b y t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r ) .
4.- CLOSER UNION I N . E A S T AFRICA.
( R e f e r e n c e C a b i n e t 48 (29 ) C o n c l u s i o n 8 ) . ,
Memorandum b y t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r t h e C o l o n i e s .
( C P . 308 (29 ) - a l r e a d y c i r c u l a t e d ) : .
Memorandum b y t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r I n d i a . ( C P . 319 (29 ) - a l r e a d y c i r c u l a t e d ) - ; .
Memorandum b y t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r I n d i a , , c o v e r i n g c o p i e s o f t e l e g r a m s .
( C P . 325 (29) - c i r c u l a t e d h e r e w i t h ) .
5.. THE F A C T O R I E S B I L L - Q U E S T I O N S O F P O L I C Y .
( R e f e r e n c e C a b i n e t 40 ( 2 9 ) C o n c l u s i o n $ ) .
R e p o r t o f C a b i n e t C o m m i t t e e . ( C P . 31.5 (29 ) - c i r c u l a t e d h e r e w i t h ;
6 . CONCLUSIONS OF CQMHITf^E OF HOME AFFAIRS .
( R e f e r e n c e H . A . C 1 2 t h C o n c l u s i o n s (29.) c i r c u l a t e d h e r e w i t h ) .
The M e n t a l T r e a t m e n t B i l l .
The Crown P r o c e e d i n g s B i l l . ( C P . 527 ( 2 9 ) --m. c i r c u l a t e d h e r e w i t h ) .
F o r F r i d a y , November- 22nd,
The M u s i c a l C o p y r i g h t B i l l .
T h e S m a l l L a n d h o l d e r s ( S c o t l a n d ) A c t s ( A m e n d m e n t ) ( N o . 2) B i l l .
F o r F r i d a y , N o v e m b e r 2 9 t h .
C h i l d r e n a n d Y o u n g P e r s o n s ( E m p l o y m e n t a n d P r o t e c t i o n ) B i l l .
W o r k m e n ' s C o m p e n s a t i o n ( N o . 2) B i l l .
( S i g n e d ) M . P . A . HANKEY,
S e c r e t a r y , C a b i n e t .
, W h i t e h a l l G a r d e n s , S . . W . 1 .
1 9 t h N o v e m b e r , 1 9 2 9 . '
Ifl-fTS DOCUMSNT I S THE PROPERTY OF H I S BRITANNIC MAJESTY'3 GOVERNMENT)
j ^ C R E T . O o p y N o . mFC A B I N E T 4 9 ( 2 9 ) . .
CONCLUSIONS o f a M e e t i n g o f t h e C a b i n e t h e l d a t 1 0 , D o w n i n g S t r e e t , S . W . 1 . , o n WEDNESDAY,
2 0 t h N o v e m b e r , 1 9 2 9 , a t 1 1 . 0 a , n , P R E S E N T : -
T h e R i g h t H o n . J . R a m s a y M a c D o n a l d , M . P . , P r i m e M i n i s t e r . ( I n t h e C h a i r ) .
Hie R i g h t H o n . T h e R i g h t H o n . j P h i l i p S n o w d e n , M . P . , A r t h u r H e n d e r s o n , M . P . ,
C h a n c e l l o r o f t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r I E x c h e q u e r . F o r e i g n A f f a i r s .
lie R i g h t H o n . T h e R i g h t H o n . j J . H . T h o m a s , M . P . , L o r d P a s s f i e l d , S e c r e t a r y a Lo rd P r i v y S e a l . o f S t a t e f o r D o m i n i o n A f f a i r s
a n d S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r t h e C o l o n i e s .
Ike R i g h t H o n . T h e R i g h t H o n . II L o r d P a r m o o r o f F r i e t h , L o r d S a n k e y , G . B . E . I K . C . V . O . , K . C . , L o r d L o r d C h a n c e l l o r . M P r e s i d e n t o f t h e C o u n c i l .
Ihe R i g h t H o n . T h e R i g h t H o n . I J . R . C l y n e s , M . P . , W. Wedgwood B e n n , D . S . O . , I S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r D . F . C . , M . P . , S e c r e t a r y o f
Home A f f a i r s . S t a t e f o r I n d i a .
Sae R i g h t H o n . B i r i g f - G e n . The R i g h t H o n . Tom S h a w , O . B . E . , M . ? . , "Lord T h o m s o n , C . B . B . , D . S . O . , S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r War. A i r .
ie R i g h t H o n . T h e R i g h t H o n . A r t h u r G r e e n w o o d , M . P . , M a r g a r e t B o n d f i e l d , M . P . , M i n i s t e r o f H e a l t h . M i n i s t e r o f L a b o u r .
i lhe R i g h t H o n . T h e R i g h t H o n . Noel B u x t o n , M . P . , S i r C h a r l e s T r e v e l y a n , B t . ,
l;4 M i n i s t e r o f A g r i c u l t u r e M . P . , P r e s i d e n t o f t h e and F i s h e r i e s . B o a r d o f E d u c a t i o n .
ie R i g h t H o n . T h e R i g h t H o n . W i l l i a m G r a h a m , M . P . , A . V . A l e x a n d e r , M . P . , P r e s i d e n t o f t h e B o a r d F i r s t L o r d o f t h e o f T r a d e . A d m i r a l t y .
ie R i g h t H o n . The- R i g h t H o n . W i l l i a m A d a m s o n , M . P . , G e o r g e L a n s b u r y , M . P . , S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r F i r s t C o m m i s s i o n e r o f S c o t l a n d . W o r k s .
S i r M , P . A . H a n k e y , G. C . B . , G . C . M . G . S e c r e t a r y .
1* A f t e r h e a r i n g t h e f a c t s f r o m t h e S e c r e t a r y o f
S t a t e f o r F o r e i g n A f f a i r s a n d t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e
f o r I n d i a , t h e C a b i n e t a p p r o v e d t h e a c t i o n o f t h e i r
c o l l e a g u e s i n r e f u s i n g a p a s s p o r t t o Mr S a k l a t v a l a
t o p r o c e e d t o I n d i a , on t h e g r o u n d t h a t h i s o b j e c t
w a s t o a t t e n d a n I n d i a n C o n f e r e n c e , w h e r e h i s
p r e s e n c e c o u l d o n l y c o n t r i b u t e t o w a r d s u n r e s t .
1 , A f t e r h e a r i n g t h e f a c t s f r o m t h e S e c r e t a r y o f
S t a t e f o r F o r e i g n A f f a i r s a n d t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e
f o r I n d i a , t h e C a b i n e t a p p r o v e d t h e a c t i o n o f t h e i r
c o l l e a g u e s i n r e f u s i n g a p a s s p o r t t o Mr S a k l a t v a l a
t o p r o c e e d t o I n d i a , on t h e g r o u n d t h a t h i s o b j e c t
w a s t o a t t e n d a n I n d i a n C o n f e r e n c e , w h e r e h i s
p r e s e n c e c o u l d o n l y c o n t r i b u t e t o w a r d s u n r e s t .
SALE OP ARMS AND AMMUNITION,
supply of Cruisers to China.
(Previous Reference: Cabinet 47 (29), Conelusion 9.)
2. The attention of the Cabinet was dra.wn b y the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to a Memorandum
(Paper C P . - 3 2 4 (29)) he had circulated on the previ
ous day raising the question of whether Messrs Vickers
& Co. should be informed that they would be granted a
licence for the export o f a Cruiser, when completed,
to China; o r , alternatively, that the licence would
not be granted.
As acceptance of this order by a British firm is
not contrary to the Arms Traffic Convention (a Conven
tion which is aat to be ratified by His Majesty's
Government^-vddshaii 1., m lugltanaotxb ratification by tfee
priwoipgl- arms-producing States), and having regard
to the faot that if unable to place it with a British firm the Chinese Government would place the order elsewhere, the Cabinet agreed —
That the firms conoerned should be informed that a lioenoe would be issued.
llHB HAGUE
J—
gortaan ^ p r o p e r t y i nIthe U n i t e d iKingdom.
1 ( P r e v i o u s I R e f e r e n c e :I c a b i n e t 3 5
[ 2 9 ; , 0ox\ sI e l u s i o n 1 3 . )
3 . A f t e r h e a r i n g f r o m t h e C h a n c e l l o r o f t h e
E x c h e q u e r , . t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r F o r e i g n
A f f a i r s a n d t h e P r e s i d e n t - o f t h e B o a r d o f T r a d e
s t a t e m e n t s i n r e g a r d t o t h e d i f f i c u l t i e s w h i c h h a v e
a r i s e n w i t h t h e G e r m a n G o v e r n m e n t i n c o n n e c t i o n b o t h
w i t h t h e l i q u i d a t i o n o f G e r m a n p r o p e r t y i n t h e
U n i t e d K i n g d o m a n d t h e r e s e r v a t i o n m a d e b y t h e
G e r m a n G o v e r n m e n t i n A n n e x I I o f t h e P r o t o c o l
s i g n e d a t The H a g u e on t h e 3 1 s t A u g u s t c o n c e r n i n g
t h e a p p l i c a t i o n o f t h e R e p a r a t i o n R e c o v e r y A c t s
p a r i p a s s u w i t h d e l i v e r i e s i n k i n d a f t e r t h e e x p i r y
o f t h e t e n - y e a r p r o g r a m m e l a i d down i n t h e E x p e r t s 1
R e p o r t ( C m d . 3 3 9 2 ) , t h e C a b i n e t a g r e e d -
( a ) To a p p r o v e t h e t e x t o f a s t a t e m e n t t o b e m a d e b y t h e C h a n c e l l o r o f t h e E x c h e q u e r i n t h e B o u s e o f Commons i n r e p l y t o a Q u e s t i o n , s u b j e o t t o a s m a l l a m e n d m e n t i n a p a s s a g e r e l a t i n g t o t h e r e i m b u r s e m e n t o f Ge rman n a t i o n a l s b y t h e G e r m a n G o v e r n m e n t , s o t h a t , w h i l e m a k i n g c l e a r t h a t "This i s a m a t t e r w i t h i n t h e c o m p e t e n c e o f t h e G e r m a n L e g i s l a t u r e i r a f o r m o f w o r d s m i g h t b e u s e d w h i c h c o u l d n o t b e c o n s t r u e d
5
u nA p V S n & i x 0 1 ^ P o ^e^-T a c t i o n . ( S e e
( b ) T h a t , a s a m a t t e r o f p o l i c y , i t i s e s s e n t i a l t h a t t h e q u e s t i o n o f t h e l i q u i d a t i o n o f G e r m a n p r o p e r t y i n t h e U n i t e d K i n g d o m s h o u l d b e m a d e t h e s u b j e c t o f an a g r e e m e n t b y t h e C o m m i t t e e a p p o i n t e d b y The H a g u e C o n f e r e n c e t o c o n s i d e r s u c h q u e s t i o n s , w h i c h i s now s i t t i n g i n P a r i s — a C o m m i t t e e a t w h i c h t h e G e r m a n r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s h a r e t h r o u g h o u t a d o p t e d a d i l a t o r y a n d n o n - c o m m i t t a l a t t i t u d e . F u r t h e r , t h a t t h e German p r o p a g a n d a i n t h i s c o u n t r y on t h i s s u b j e c t , a n d t h e d i s c l o s u r e t o t h e P r e s s o f t h e C h a n o e l l o r o f t h e E x c h e q u e r ' s l e t t e r t o t h e German A m b a s s a d o r , w e r e m o s t i m p r o p e r .
( c ) T h a t t h e same p r i n c i p l e a p p l i e s t o t h e s e t t l e m e n t " , b e f o r e t h e r e s u m p t i o n o f The H a g u e C o n f e r e n c e , o f t h e q u e s t i o n o f t h e p o s i t i o n o f t h e R e p a r a t i o n s R e c o v e r y A c t s , a s r e f e r r e d t o a b o v e .
( d ) T h a t i n t h e f i r s t i n s t a n c e t h e S e c r e t a r y
of State for Foreign Affairs should see the German Ambassador on these questions at an early date and Impress strongly upon him the views of the Cabinet as set forth above. He should make clear that the policy of endeavouring to postpone a settlement of these questions until the next Session of The Hague Conference could not succeed and that they must be cleared up before the next Session could be held. It was further agreed that the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs should hand an aide-memoire to the German Ambassador so that there could be no doubt about the position of His Majesty's Government or its determination:
(e) That the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs should circulate to the Cabinet the usual record of his conversation. If he should be unable to obtain a satisfactory response from the German Government, the next step should be considered, particularly the despatch
. of an appropriate letter as proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
fc op. 5 s BOND.
4 . The P r i m e M i n i s t e r
u r g e n c y , t h e q u e s t i o n o f
b r o u g h t u p , a s a
t h e L o r d M a y o r ' s
m a t t e r
F u n d
o f
p r e v i o u s I B e f e r e n c e : j C a b i n e t 9 1 ( 2 9 ) , O o n l o l u s i o n 5.)
r a i s e d d u r i n g t h e p r e v i o u s y e a r f o r t h e r e l i e f o f
d i s t r e s s i n t h e c o a l f i e l d s , a s u b j e c t o n w h i c h
G o v e r n m e n t w o u l d a l m o s t c e r t a i n l y h a v e t o m a k e a
s t a t e m e n t i n P a r l i a m e n t i n t h e i m m e d i a t e f u t u r e .
t h e
The C a b i n e t a g r e e d —
T h a t t h e q u e s t i o n s h o u l d b e p l a c e d o n t h e A g e n d a a t t h e i r n e x t r e g u l a r w e e k l y m e e t i n g , a n d , i n t h e m e a n t i m e ( i ) t h e S e c r e t a r y s h o u l d c i r c u l a t e a R e p o r t h a n d e d t o h i m b y t h e C h a n c e l l o r o f t h e E x c h e q u e r ; , a n d ( i i ) c e r t a i n M i n i s t e r s who h a d b e e n l o o k i n g i n t o t h i s q u e s t i o n s h o u l d , a t t h e i r d i s c r e t i o n , c i r c u l a t e t h e i r own r e m a r k s .
SCOTTISH ?ISHSRXES.
( p r e v i o u s R e f e r e n c e : n a b i n e t 3 3 ( 2 4 ) , C o n e l u s i o n 7 . )
5. After hearing a statement by the Secretary of
State for Scotland in regard to the recent disaster
to the Scottish fisheries, v/hich had resulted in the
loss of a very large number of fishing-nets, the
Cabinet, while feeling the fullest sympathy with
the victims of this misfortune, felt unable, a s a
matter of principle, to make a contribution to the
Relief Fund which was being raised in Scotland.
-6
tiST AFRICA. It - loiioy in.
I Previous fReference: Cabinet 48
f (29), Con-I elusion 8.)
i
I
6. The question of closer union in East Africa, on which Memoranda had been circulated by the Secretary of State for the Colonies (Paper C.P.-308 (29)) and by the Secretary of State for India (Paper C.P.-319 (29) and CP.-325 (29)), was postponed until the next regular weekly meeting of the Cabinet, and the Secretary was instructed to place it as the second item on the Agenda Paper.
The Prime Minister formulated the principal questions arising as follows
(i) The general lines of the re-organisation of the three territories concerned:
(ii) The general attitude to be adopted towBrds/X̂enya Constitution, including the questions of the Official Majority and the Common Roll.
He asked his colleagues to read the Memoranda with especial care and to be ready to express their views on these questions when the matter came up at the
next Meeting. The Secretary of State for the Colonies undertook to supply the Cabinet with copies of the original White Papers of 1923 and 1927, dealing with Kenya.
TflS FACTORIES 7 . T h e C a b i n e t h a d b e f o r e t h e m a R e p o r t b y t h e BILL- C a b i n e t C o m m i t t e e o n t h e F a c t o r i e s B i l l ( P a p e r CYT
( p r e v i o u s 3 1 5 ( 2 9 ) ) c o n t a i n i n g r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s i n r e g a r d t o R e f e r e n c e : C a b i n e t 4 0 t e n o u t o f t h e t w e l v e q u e s t i o n s s u b m i t t e d t o t h e m ( 2 9 ) . C o n e l u s i o n 3*.) b y t h e Home S e c r e t a r y i n r e g a r d t o t h e B i l l , b u t
r e s e r v i n g f o r t h e d e c i s i o n o f t h e C a b i n e t m a t t e r s
r e l a t i n g t o t h e f o l l o w i n g :
( i ) THE OVERTIME'CLAUSES, w h i o h t h e Comn i t t e e c o n s i d e r e d m u s t d e p e n d o n t h e d e c i s i o n t o b e t a k e n b y t h e C a b i n e t w i t h r e g a r d t o t h e n a t u r e o f t h e t
C l a u s e s t o b e i n s e r t e d i n t h e d r a f t H o u r s o f E m p l o y m e n t B i l l .
( i i ) THE- TWO-SHIFT SYSTEM ( C l a u s e 8 0 Of t h e B i l l ) , n a m e l y , a s t o w h e t h e r t h e s y s t e m s h o u l d b e d r o p p e d b o t h f r o m t h e E x p i r i n g Laws C o n t i n u a n c e B i l l a n d t h e F a c t o r i e s B i l l , o r w h e t h e r a n y r e f e r e n c e t o t h e s y s t e m i n t h e F a c t o r i e s B i l l s h o u l d b e o m i t t e d a n d i t s c o n t i n u a n c e a s a t e m p o r a r y me a. s u r e d e f e n d e d i n t h e E x p i r i n g L a w s C o n t i n u a n c e B i l l , o r w h e t h e r i t s h o u l d b e d e a l t w i t h i n b o t h B i l l s , l e a v i n g t h e p r i n c i p l e t o b e d e c i d e d on a p r o p o s a l i n t h e F a c t o r i e s B i l l t o m a k e t h e s y s t e m a p e r m a n e n t p a r t o f o u r f a c t o r y l e g i s l a t i o n .
The C a b i n e t a p p r o v e d t h e R e p o r t o f t h e C a b i n e t
C o m m i t t e e , s u b j e c t t o t h e f o l l o w i n g :
( a ) OVERTIME. A p p r o v a l t o t h e p r o p o s a l t h a t t h i s s h o u l d b e r e s e r v e d f o r c o n s i d e r a t i o n i n c o n n e c t i o n w i t h t h e H o u r s o f E m p l o y m e n t B i l l :
( b ) T h a t t h e c o n t i n u a n c e o f t h e TWO-SHIFT SYSTEM s h o u l d b e p r o v i d e d f o r i n t h e E x p i r i n g L a w s C o n t i n u a n c e B i l l a s a t e m p o r a r y n e a s u r e , a n d t h n . t t h e G o v e r n m e n t s p o k e s m a n o n t h i s B i l l s h o u l d
make
-debated( c ) T h a t t h e p r o v i s i o n s t o b e i n c l u d e d i n
t h e F a c t o r i e s B i l l i n r e g a r d t o t h e TWO-SHIFT SYSTEM s h o u l d b e c o n s i d e r e d a t t h e n e x t w e e k l y M e e t i n g o f t h e C a b i n e t , a n d t h a t i n t h e m e a n w h i l e t h e P r e s i d e n t o f t h e B o a r d of T r a d e
a n d t h e F i r s t . L o r d o f t h e A d m i r a l t y s h o u l d c o n f e r a s t o w h e t h e r i t ^ o u l d h e d e s i r a b l e t o c i r c u l a t e a Memorandum o n t h e s u b j e c t a r i s i n g o u t o f t h e i n v e s t i g a t i o n s o f t h e , S u b - C o m m i t t e e o f t h e C o m m i t t e e o f C i v i l R e s e a r c h o h t h e C o ^ o n I n d u s t r y .
[previous fleference. Cabinet 36 (29), Oonclusion 2 and Appendix. )
8 . The Cabinet had before them a Memorandum
(Paper H.A.-29 (29)) by the Minister of Health
covering the draft Mental Treatment Bill, which
is designed to give effect to certain urgently
needed improvements In Lunacy Law and Admlnlstra
tion, arising out of the Report of the Royal
Commission on Lunacy (Cmd.2700 of 1926), together
with the recommendations of the Committee of Home
Affairs thereon (H.A.C. 12th Conclusions (29),
Paragraph l).
In accordance with the recommendations of the
Committee of Home Affairs, the Cabinet agreed -
To approve the Introduction in the House of Lords of the Mental Treatment Bill In the form of the draft annexed to H.A.-29 (29), subject tdt
(a) the addition of the provision suggested by the Minister of Health ,
(b) such modification of clauses 1(3) and 5(l) as may be agreed by the Minister of Healthy the Attorney-General and Parliamentary Counsel, and
(0) any drafting or other minor alterations "that may be found necessary or desirable.
CROWN )XNGS
I L L .
Previous Reference: Cabinet 36 (29). Con-
I elusion 2 and I Appendix.)
t 7 K
9. The Cabinet had before them a Memorandum by the
Lord Chancellor (Paper H.A.-33 (29)) on the subject of
the Crown Proceedings Bill, together with the reoom
mendations of the Committee of Home Affairs thereon
(H.A.C. 12th Conclusions (29), Paragraph 2 ) , and a
Note by the First Lord of the Admiralty (Paper C.P.
327 (29)) offering strenuous opposition to Part I I
of the Bill and oriticising some aspects of Parts I
and I I .
At the request of the Lord Chanoellor, who had received Departmental objections to the Bill, the question was reserved until the next regular weekly Meeting of the Cabinet.
THE MUSICAL COPYRIGHT B I L L .
(Previous Reference: Cabinet 4 8 ( 2 9 ) . Conelusion 1 2 . )
1 0 . The Cabinet had before them a Musical
Copyright Bill, to be introduced by a Private
Member on Friday, NDvember 2 2 n d , and agreed -
That the spokesman for the Board of Trade on the subject should give as much Departmental information on the matter as possible, but Should make it d e a r that the Government could give no facilities for the progress of the Bill.
- 1 1
juTEMELOYMEMP.
a p o l i t i c a l I P a r t i e s I ( C o - o p e r a t i o n ) ,
I ( P r e v i o u s I R e f e r e n c e :
1 C a b i n e t 4 5 1 ( 2 9 ) , O o n
o l u s i o n 2 . )
1 1 . The P r i m e M i n i s t e r d r e w t h e a t t e n t i o n o f t h e
C a b i n e t t o a s t a t e m e n t h e h a d m a d e i n t h e H o u s e o f
Commons o n M o n d a y , N o v e m b e r 1 8 t h , i n r e g a r d t o a
p r o p o s a l t h a t a C o n f e r e n c e o f a l l P a r t i e s s h o u l d b e
h e l d t o c o n s i d e r t h e q u e s t i o n o f U n e m p l o y m e n t
( A p p e n d i x II.). To f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s h e i n t e n d e d t o
r e p l y t o t h e e f f e c t t h a t n o a p p r o a c h t o h i m h a d
b e e n m a d e s i n c e h i s l a s t s t a t e m e n t o n t h e s u b j e c t .
2 , W h i t e h a l l G a r d e n s , S . W . 1 ,
N o v e m b e r 2 0 , 1 9 2 9 .
- 1 2 -Hi
I i 6
AT?PEKDIX I .
GERMAN PROPBRTY I N THE UNITED KINGDOM.
STATEMENT TO BE MADE IN THE HOUSE OP COMMONS BY THE CHANCELLOR OP THE EXCHEQUER.
I w i l l t a k e t h e s e t w o q u e s t i o n s t o g e t h e r a n d a s
t h e r e h a s "been a g o o d d e a l o f m i s u n d e r s t a n d i n g o f t h e f a o t s
r e f e r r e d t o , I p r o p o s e , w i t h t h e l e a v e o f t h e H o u s e , t o
m a k e a g e n e r a l s t a t e m e n t of t h e p o s i t i o n o f H i s M a j ' e s t y r s
G o v e r n m e n t i n t h e m a t t e r .
I h a v e c o n s u l t e d t h e B r i t i s h E x p e r t s on t h e
Young C o m m i t t e e a n d I am i n f o r m e d t h a t t h e d i s p o s a l o f
t h e s u r p l u s p r o c e e d s o f l i q u i d a t i o n o f Ge rman p r o p e r t i e s
w a s f u l l y c o n s i d e r e d b y t h e E x p e r t s ' C o m m i t t e e i n P a r i s
a n d t h a t i t w a s t h e i n t e n t i o n o f t h e B r i t i s h E x p e r t s , a s
i t w a s t h e i n t e n t i o n o f t h e E x p e r t s o f a l l t h e o t h e r
C r e d i t o r G o v e r n m e n t s , t h a t t h e p r o c e e d s o f l i q u i d a t i o n o f
t h e s e p r o p e r t i e s s h o u l d b e r e t a i n e d , i n a c c o r d a n c e w i t h t h e
T r e a t y , b y t h e C r e d i t o r P o w e r s c o n c e r n e d a n d t h a t n o
p a r t o f s u c h p r o c e e d s s h o u l d b e r e p a i d t o S3rmany; a n d i t
w a s o n l y o n t h i s u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t t h e y a g r e e d t o r e c o m m e n d
t h e r e d u c t i o n o f t h e G e r m a n o b l i g a t i o n s a s p r o p o s e d i n t h e
P l a n .
T h e t e x t o f t h e R e p o r t , i n d e e d , m a k e s t h e
p o s i t i o n q u i t e c l e a r . S e c t i o n 8 p r o v i d e s t h a t t h e a n n u i t i e s
p r o p o s e d i n t h e R e p o r t s h o u l d c o v e r t h e o b l i g a t i o n s o f
G e r m a n y , a s d e f i n e d i n t h e D a w e s P l a n : w h i l e S e c t i o n 9
provides that the accounts of the Reparation Commission
relating to the original capital debt should be closed.
The Report proceeds
"The Creditor Governments under this Plan will be reducing the whole body of their claims arising out of the war or under the Treaty of Versailles to a considerable extent. The Experts of the Creditor countries are aware that past transactions have given or may give rise to claims by Germany, some of which are still unsettled, and while they are not able to go into the merits of these claims, they consider that the Creditor Governments are fully entitled to expect that Germany should waive them in consideration of the consolidation of the Creditors1 claims at a reduced figure. Any other course would be inconsistent w i t h their intention that, just as the new Annuities- cover all the claims defined in Part XI of the Dawes Plan, so they should be paid free of deduction in respect of any past transactions. The Committee recognises however that this is entirely a matter for the Governments to deal with".
I may explain that the German properties
sequestrated during the war were transferred to the
Creditor Governments as at the date of the entry into force
of the Treaty viz. 10th January, 1920. The German Govern
ment at the same time retained the proceeds of liquidation
of property of Allied nationals in Germany and undertook
to compensate ite own nationals in respect of their
properties liquidated abroad. The Treaty provided that the
proceeds of liquidation realised by the Creditor Govern
ments might be applied to meet private claims of their
nationals on account of debts, property losses and
compensation awards due fcy Germany and that, thereafter, any
surplus might be retained by the Creditor Governments
on account of their reparation claims. After the
German schedule of payments was fixed in 1921, the
Reparation Commission decided, and duly informed the German
Government, that any surplus proceeds so retained would be
I [ I c r e d i t e d t o Ge rmany on a c c o u n t o f t h e c a p i t a l r e p a r a t i o n d e b t a n d
n e t on a c c o u n t o f t h e c u r r e n t a n n u i t i e s . The l i q u i d a t i o n o f t h e s e
p r o p e r t i e s w a s t a k e n i n t o a c c o u n t by t h e S e c o n d E x p e r t s ' C o m m i t t e e
a p p o i n t e d i n 1 9 2 4 a n d t h e German a n n u i t i e s f i x e d b o t h i n t h e Dawes
p l a n a n d i n t h e Y o u n g P l a n w e r e b a s e d on t h e c a p a c i t y o f Germany t o
3 p a y , on t h e a s s u m p t i o n t h a t t h e s e p r o p e r t i e s w e r e d e f i n i t e l y l o s t
I t o G e r m a n y ,
On two o c c a s i o n s t h e German G o v e r n m e n t r a i s e d c l a i m s
b e f o r e t h e I n t e r p r e t a t i o n T r i b u n a l s e t u p u n d e r t h e Dawes P l a n f o r
c r e d i t s i n r e s p e c t o f t h e p r o c e e d s of l i q u i d a t i o n o f Ge rman p r o p e r t y
a g a i n s t t h e German a n n u i t i e s a s d e f i n e d by S e c t i o n I I o f P a r t I o f
t h e Dawes P l a n , b u t on e a c h o c c a s i o n t h e T r i b u n a l h a s r e j e c t e d t h e s e
c l a i m s , a n d u n d e r t h e
d e c i s i o n s w i l l a p p l y
P l a n . I t a p p e a r s t o
r e c o m m e n d e c t h a t t h e
r i g h t t o l i q u i d a t e i n
t e r m s o f S e c t i o n 8 o f t h e Y o u n g p l a n , t h e s e
a l s o t o t h e a n n u i t i e s p a y a b l e u n d e r t h e Young .
bo q u i t e c l e a r t h a t w h i l e t h e Y o u n g C o m m i t t e e
C r e c i t o r G o v e r n m e n t s s h o u l d d i s c o n t i n u e t h e i r
t h e f u t u r e , t h e y d i d n o t c o n t e m p l a t e t h a t
Germany s h o u l d b e r e p a i d a n y p a r t o f t h e p r o c e e d s o f p a s t l i q u i d a t i o n s .
The o n l y a c t i o n t h e r e f o r e r e q u i r e d a t t h e H a g u e C o n f e r e n c e
was t h e d r a f t i n g o f t h e e x a c t f o r m u l a r e q u i r e d f o r p u t t i n g t h e
a b o v e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s i n t o e f f e c t , w h i c h h a s b e e n e n t r u s t e d t o t h e
C o m m i t t e e s e t u p b y t h a t C o n f e r e n c e " t o a p p l y t h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s
of t h e C h a p t e r IX o f t h e R e p o r t o f t h e E x p e r t s r e l a t i n g t o t h e
l i q u i d a t i o n o f t h e p a s t " . The r e p o r t o f t h a t C o m m i t t e e h a s n o t
y e t b e e n c o m p l e t e d b u t I am i n f o r m e d t h a t t h e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s o f
a l l t h e c r e d i t o r G o v e r n m e n t s a r e a g r e e d t h a t t h e German G o v e r n
n e n t m u s t w a i v e a l l c l a i m s on t h e s e b a l a n c e s , a s a c o n d i t i o n o f
t h e o o m i n g i n t o f o r c e of t h e Y o u n g P l a n . I n t h i s c o n n e c t i o n , I
s h o u l d p o i n t o u t t h a t i t i s q u i t e u n t r u e t o s a y t h a t t h e B r i t i s h
G o v e r n m e n t a r e p u r s u i n g a p o l i c y d i f f e r e n t f r o m t h a t o f t h e
o t h e r c r e d i t o r G o v e r n m e n t s i n E u r o p e i n t h i s m a t t e r . n e i t h e r
F r a n c e n o r I t a l y n o r B e l g i u m , s o f a r a s I am a w a r e , h a v e a n y
i n t e n t i o n o f r e t u r n i n g t c t h e G e r m a n G o v e r n m e n t a n y p a r t o f
t h e p r o c e e d s o f p a s t l i q u i d a t i o n s . A l l t h e y h a v e d o n e o r
u n d e r t a k e n t o d o i s t o s u s p e n d l i q u i d a t i o n s a n d t o r e l e a s e
p r o p e r t i e s n o t y e t l i q u i d , l i q u i d a t e d o r f i n a l l y d i s p o s e d o f .
H i s l & j e s t y ^ G o v e r n m e n t h a v e o f f e r e d t o e n t e r i n t o a
s i m i l a r a r r a n g e m e n t , a s r e g a r d s t h e c e s s a t i o n Of f u t u r e
l i q u i d a t i o n s , a n d t h e y s u s p e n d e d l i q u i d a t i o n s a s f r o m t h e
3 1 s t A u g u s t l a s t .
As r e g a r d s t h e p a s t , t h e p r o c e e d s of l i q u i d a t i o n o f
G e r m a n p r o p e r t i e s i n t h i s c o u n t r y h a v e i n a c c o r d a n c e w i t h t h e
a r r a n g e m e n t s i n t h e t r e a t y r e f e r r e d t o a b o v e b e e n u s e d i n t h e
f i r s t i n s t a n c e f o r m e e t i n g t h e p r i v a t e c l a i m s o f B r i t i s h
n a t i o n a l s . T h i s a c c o u n t s f o r t h e g r e a t b u l k o f t h e m o n e y .
T h e s u r p l u s , w h i c h i s e s t i m a t e d a t a b o u t £ 1 4 m i l l i o n s , I s
p a i d , t o t h e E x c h e q u e r a s i t i s r e a l i s e d . T h i s s u r p l u s ,
b e i n g a g e n e r a l b a l a n c e , c a n n o t o f c o u r s e b e e a r m a r k e d o r
i d e n t i f i e d a s t h e p r o c e e d s o f a n y p a r t i c u l a r p r o p e r t y a n d
t h e r e i s n o b e t t e r c a s e f o r r e t u r n i n g i t t o t h e German
G o v e r n m e n t t h a n f o r r e t u r n i n g t h e m e r c h a n t s h i p s o r o t h e r
T r e a t y d e l i v e r i e s o n r e p a r a t i o n a c c o u n t made" b y Germany i n
1 9 2 0 .
H i s M a j e s t y ' s G o v e r n m e n t c o n s i & e r t h a t t h e r e t e n t i o n
o f t h i s s u r p l u s f o r m s a n i n t e g r a l p a r t o f t h e E x p e r t s ' P l a n ,
a n d t h e y w i l l i n n o c i r c u m s t a n c e s a g r e e t o a n y s u c h
m o d i f i c a t i o n o f t h e P l a n , a t t h e e x p e n s e o f t h i s c o u n t r y , a s
w o u l d b e i n v o l v e d b y t h e r e t u r n o f a n y p a r t o f t h i s sum t o t h e
German G o v e r n m e n t .
I n s a y i n g t h i s , I m u s t n o t b e u n d e r s t o o d a s o v e r
l o o k i n g 1 t h e h a r d s h i p s s u s t a i n e d b y t h e G e r m a n n a t i o n a l s
c o n c e r n e d who h a v e n o t y e t r e c e i v e d t h e c o m p e n s a t i o n p r o v i d e d
f o r i n t h e T r e a t y b u t t h i s i s a m a t t e r w i t h i n t h e c o m p e t e n c e
o f t h e G e r m a n L e g i s l a t u r e .
f i v *
H i s M a j e s t y " s G o v e r n m e n t h a v e i n d e e d , c o n t r i b u t e d
v e r y s u b s t a n t i a l l y t o a l l e v i a t e t h e h a r d s h i p s o f
i n d i v i d u a l s , w i t h whom I h a v e a l w a y s h a d . m u c h s y m p a t h y ,
b y t h e d i s c r e t i o n a r y r e l e a s e s , on h u m a n i t a r i a n g r o u n d s ,
g r a n t e d b y t h e B o a r d o f T r a d e e s p e c i a l l y o n t h e .
r e c o m m e n d a t i o n of t h e B l a n e s b u r g h C o m m i t t e e . Tho ; t o t a l
o f p r o p e x ^ t i e s a l r e a d y r e l e a s e d u n d e r t h i s ; p r o c e d u r e
e x c e e d s £ 5 m i l l i o n s . I n a d d i t i o n , H i s M a j e s t y ' s
G o v e r n m e n t h a v e o f f e r e d , i n a c c o r d a n c e , w i t h t h e
r e c o m m e n d a t i o n o f t h e Yc.un£ Coumi . t t . ee , , t o w a i v e c l a i m s t o
p r o p e r t i e s n o t y e t l i q u i d a t e d ( i n c l u d i n g d o l l a r s e c u r i t i e s
w h i c h a r e t h e s u b j e c t o f l i t i g a t i o n ) e s t i m a t e d t o b e w o r t h
a f u r t h e r £ 5 m i l l i o n s . T h u s H i s e s t y 1 s G o v e r n m e n t w i l l ,
w h e n t h e Youn^ P l a n i s d e f i n i t e l y a d o p t e d , h a v e r e l e a s e d
a l t o g e t h e r German p r o p e r t i e s o r c l a i m s v a l u e d a t o v e r
£ 1 0 m i l l i o n s - a much l a r g e r a m o u n t t h a n a n y s u m s w h i c h
I b e l i e v e h a v e b e e n r e l e a s e d o r a r e l i k e l y t o b e r e l e a s e d
by a n y o t h e r o f t h e E u r o p e a n c r e d i t o r G o v e r n m e n t s .
I t s e e m s t o me t h a t t h e r e n u n c i a t i o n o f t h e s e c l a i m s
r e p r e s e n t s t h e f u l l e s t m e a s u r e o f g e n e r o s i t y w h i c h c a n be
j u s t i f l o d a n d i n my o p i n i o n i t g i v e s o f f e e t , a s f u l l y a s
c a n b e d o n e , t o t h e d e s i r e w h i c h I h a v e e x p r e s s e d when i n a
p o s i t i o n of l e s s r e s p o n s i b i l i t y t o s e e t h e s e p r o v i s i o n s
o f t h e T r e a t y u l t i m a t e l y a b a n d o n e d .
APPENDIX I I .
B3ETRACT FROM PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, " HOUSE OF COMMONS.'
M o n d a y . N o v e m b e r 1 8 t h . 1 9 2 9 .
UNEMPLOYMENT .
P o l i t i c a l P a r t i e s ( C o - o p e r a t i o n ) .
4 8 . MR. P H I L I P OLIVER a s k e d t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r w h e t h e r h e
w o u l d b e p r e p a r e d , i n c o n s u l t a t i o n w i t h t h e l e a d e r s o f t h e
t w o O p p o s i t i o n p a r t i e s , t o a p p o i n t a C o m m i t t e e c o m p r i s e d
o f M e m b e r s o f a l l p a r t i e s t o a d v i s e a s t o w h a t f u r t h e r
s c h e m e s a r e p r a c t i c a b l e f o r d e a l i n g w i t h t h e p r o b l e m o f
u n e m p l o y m e n t ?
8 1 . MR. MANDER a s k e d t h e L o r d P r i v y S e a l w h e t h e r h e i s
p r e p a r e d t o c o n s i d e r t h e a p p o i n t m e n t o f a C o m m i t t e e d r a w n
f r o m M e m b e r s o f a l l p a r t i e s i n t h e H o u s e t o a s s i s t h i m i n
t h e s o l u t i o n o f t h e u n e m p l o y m e n t p r o b l e m ?
THE PRIME MINISTER: I n t h e s p e e c h t h a t he made
i m m e d i a t e l y a f t e r we t o o k o f f i c e , my r i g h t h o n . F r i e n d
t h e L o r d P r i v y S e a l , w h i l e s a f e g u a r d i n g G o v e r n m e n t
r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r p o l i c y , a n n o u n c e d h i s i n t e n t i o n o f
s e e i n g how f a r h e c o u l d m o b i l i s e t h e g o o d w i l l w h i c h we
b e l i e v e d e x i s t e d i n a l l p a r t i e s a n d i n t h e c o u n t r y g e n e r a l l y
t o d e v i s e a p r o g r a m m e f o r d e a l i n g w i t h t h e p r o b l e m o f
u n e m p l o y m e n t . As r e g a r d s a n a l l p a r t y C o m m i t t e e , I s h o u l d
r e m i n d t h e H o u s e , t h a t w h e n we w e r e i n o p p o s i t i o n we m a d e
s u c h a p r o p o s a l t o o u r p r e d e c e s s o r s , who r e g a r d e d i t a s
i m p r a c t i c a b l e , b u t i f I c o u l d s e e a n y t h i n g w h i c h w o u l d
j u s t i f y t h e b e l i e f t h a t t h e p a r t i e s o p p o s i t e w e r e
p r e p a r e d t o c o - o p e r a t e a n d t h a t u s e f u l r e s u l t s w o u l d
b e o b t a i n e d , a l w a y s s a f e g u a r d i n g t h e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y
o f t h e G o v e r n m e n t , I s h o u l d b e w i l l i n g t o c o n s i d e r
r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s .