case 1:11-cv-05632-dli-rr-gel document 427 filed...
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NEW YORK STATE
LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND
REAPPORTIONMENT
PUBLIC MEETING
PRISONER COUNT AND REALLOCATION
Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Room 124
State Capitol Building
Albany, New York
1:30 P.M.
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TASK FORCE MEMBERS PRESENT:
SENATOR MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO, Co-Chair
ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY, Co-Chair
SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN
ASSEMBLY MEMBER ROBERT OAKS
DEBRA LEVINE
ROMAN HEDGES
WELQUIS LOPEZ
LEWIS HOPPE
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INDEX
Page SENATOR MICHAEL F NOZZOLIO 4 SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN 4 ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY 5 ROMAN HEDGES 15 ASSEMBLY MEMBER ROBERT OAKS 26
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(The public meeting commenced at 1:30 p.m.) 2
SENATOR MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO, CO-CHAIR, 3
NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC 4
RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT: …on demographics and 5
apportionment will come to order. My name is Mike 6
Nozzolio. I am honored to be the co-chair of the LATFOR 7
Task Force along with my good friend Assemblyman Jack 8
McEneny. Assemblyman, Happy New Year, very good to be 9
with you as always. 10
ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY, CO-CHAIR, 11
NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC 12
RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT: Yes, indeed. 13
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Before I turn it over to 14
you I just want to mention the Senate members of the 15
task force, those with Senate appointments, my—to my 16
right is my colleague Assemblyman Martin, excuse me, 17
Senator Martin Dilan. Good afternoon Senator. 18
SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN, NEW YORK STATE 19
LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND 20
REAPPORTIONMENT: Hello. 21
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Good to see you and the 22
citizen representative on the task force Welquis Ray 23
Lopez. Assemblyman. 24
ASSEMBY MEMBER MCENENY: Everybody’s 25
familiar with who’s who and how the progress has been, 26
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been, been, coming along. I will introduce my 2
members. I’m Jack McEneny from the, from the, 3
assembly and this is Bob Oaks who is my classmate and 4
the—I suppose the equivalent of the ranking minority 5
member here and our citizen representative is Dr. 6
Roman Hedges. 7
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: It—the group assembled 8
here today has been virtually constantly with each 9
other over the past six months. We have conducted 10
hearings in every corner of New York State, some in 11
the room here have participated in those hearings. 12
Over 55 hours of testimony, well over 375 people 13
submitting oral testimony, and a number of 14
individuals, citizens of this state, submitting 15
written testimony, which is welcome and that it is an 16
extensive record. Today’s agenda will be to have a—17
in fact, an imprimatur of this committee on the 18
prison adjustment data release of the 2010 census. 19
That on August 11, 2010, Chapter 57 of the laws of 20
2010 was signed into law by then Governor Patterson. 21
This measure directed that the New York State 22
Department of Corrections provide this task force 23
with information regarding incarcerated individuals 24
under its jurisdiction as of April 1st, 2010. This 25
was the date of the census conducted by the United 26
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States Census Bureau. The objective of the statute 2
was to adjust this census for the very first time for 3
state redistricting purposes by removing prisoners 4
from where they were incarcerated, which is the 5
process that the United States Census undergoes, and 6
placing them at the residence prior—at their 7
residence prior to their incarceration. The adjusted 8
process took three stages and I wish to articulate 9
those. It was first subtracting prisoners from their 10
place of incarceration. Secondly, adding them by a 11
reallocation process that placed them with data from 12
the census taken by the intake of the Department of 13
Corrections responding to the question of where do 14
you live and where your nearest relatives live, and 15
then a process of producing data files and reports. 16
For that I wish to thank the staff of the LATFOR task 17
force. They have been working tirelessly. I also 18
want to thank Roman Hedges, a member of this task 19
force, who engaged in establishing some of the 20
templates that this first process was to engage in. 21
This process, by adjusting the numbers of 22
all prisoners at the State and Federal level, the 23
addition of prisoners whose addresses were generated 24
successfully, and then the production of those data 25
files, using the adjusted data. Those criteria have 26
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been a method established by the LATFOR task force 2
staff and the adjusted data is now on the LATFOR 3
website. We wish to thank the efforts of those who 4
went about and did the aggressive processes 5
necessary, again, for the very first time to 6
implement this law. I hasten to add there were no 7
regulations that accompany this law, no procedures, 8
really no guidance in terms of the protocols to 9
establish this law so we were at the very first 10
impression. 11
Assemblyman McEneny and I have talked about 12
it a number of occasions that certainly more guidance 13
is necessary and more guidance particularly to the 14
Department of Corrections. That our position on the—15
certainly—on the Senate side of the aisle and, I 16
believe certainly in the assembly’s side of the aisle 17
both, we came to the conclusion together that we 18
wanted to count as many as we possibly could achieve 19
in that count to insure that there would not be those 20
left who were not counted, although the statute has 21
been very inadequate in the proper direction of where 22
that counting is, is, to be placed. So the purpose 23
of the task force meeting is to approve the inclusion 24
of this information and that we want the public to 25
have it. It is on the website now but this meeting 26
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again is to insure that, that, it meets with the 2
approval of the members of the task force. 3
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: I think that, 4
that, covers it Senator. I think one of the biggest 5
of problems that arose from the counting of prisoners, 6
which those of you that have been following this right 7
along, it was a commitment emphasized as far back as 8
July that we intended to follow the law as close as we 9
could to the spirit of the law, but that the problem 10
was the letter of the law became confusing because, as 11
the Senator mentioned, there were no accompanying 12
regulations. Therefore, it fell to LATFOR to create 13
the equivalent as such, such, regulations and the 14
final numbers 46,003 of our prisoners are now counted 15
on the home block and in some case within the home 16
town of the community whence they came and where most 17
of them will ultimately return. 18
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That the LATFOR website 19
address is latfor.state.ny.us. That information 20
certainly is welcome to the public. With that, shall 21
we entertain a motion? 22
[crosstalk] 23
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Can we make the motion 24
and then discuss it? 25
[crosstalk] 26
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ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: I would like to 2
make a motion we accept the numbers as presented by 3
the combined staff of LATFOR for the purpose of 4
counting for redistricting in accordance with the law. 5
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The motion is seconded, 6
made and seconded. Senator Dilan. 7
SENATOR DILAN: Thank you very much Mr. 8
Chairman. I, I, first would just like to comment and 9
first also commend you both co-chairpersons and the 10
staff for actually putting out this database. I think 11
this is something that we have all been trying to 12
achieve so I really want to commend you on that. 13
However, I believe two weeks ago I sent both co-chairs 14
a memo requesting that when we do ratify the work and 15
efforts of the staff, that maybe we have a two-week 16
period where the public and advocates and those who 17
have already submitted a plan so LATFOR would have the 18
ability to amend their submission based on the - - 19
data and I have not received a response from either 20
co-chair up to this point so I would like to know that 21
once we ratify this today are we giving the public and 22
advocate groups who have been very involved in this 23
process the ability to submit revised or amended 24
plans? 25
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator Dilan, thank you 26
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and thank you for your comments and thank you for your 2
interest in this issue from the beginning. There is 3
no static or finite date to—sell-by date, on the plans 4
submitted. There is always the opportunity until the 5
final plans are ratified or accepted or enacted by the 6
legislature and signed into law that LATFOR, I think, 7
welcomes the continued input of individuals and 8
organizations. So your comments were well taken. 9
There should be a time period for plans are, are, 10
utilized, but I think certainly if we accept this 11
today, the 10th of January, there is ample time for 12
anyone to be able to modify their plans, at least 13
through the remainder of this month and frankly into 14
the hearing process. I think that is a, a, segue into 15
some of the comments that we would like to talk about 16
that—Do you want to address this directly, Senator? 17
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: I would observe 18
that I would think some of the groups who have 19
submitted plans already have these numbers. I think 20
they presumed they would be ratified by LATFOR 21
officially as is happening hopefully today and they’re 22
probably already adjusting to see if it has any major 23
effect on recommended plans. Some for just one or two 24
districts, others for the entire state, and— 25
[crosstalk] 26
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ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: —for example is 2
the entire state— 3
SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] So I take it 4
your answer is no, that they do not— 5
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: [Interposing] My 6
answer is they are probably already doing it— 7
SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] Two weeks— 8
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: —they certainly 9
can do it before the public hearings commence. 10
SENATOR DILAN: I take the response as your 11
answer is no. However, I would also— 12
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No, no, my answer is 13
that, no Senator, my answer is that these—any 14
submissions can be amended at any time throughout now 15
and the hearing process, which again I think there is 16
a segue. 17
We should now, at least, this is an 18
opportune time to discuss the intentions of the task 19
force, those 14 hearings that we engaged in were only 20
meant to be the first round of hearings that the task 21
force will conduct that we—that we’ll have at least 8 22
or 9 hearings scheduled across the state and various 23
regions of the state for a second round of hearings to 24
commence sometime, we hope, although we don’t have an 25
exact date now, sometime hopefully, commence by the 26
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end of the month, end of January. And those meetings 2
certainly would also have as has taken place in I 3
believe in 1992 certainly in 2002 will follow the same 4
basic process engaged in, in, those two redistricting 5
cycles where initial plans were put forward from the 6
task force prior to the beginning of the hearings that 7
will take place hopefully beginning the end of 8
January, this month, and grinding into the month of 9
February. I hope that is a further elaboration of 10
your concern and that certainly anyone can submit a 11
plan today, amend it tomorrow, and decide to amend it 12
three or four times between now and the end the 13
process. 14
SENATOR DILAN: I understand what you’re 15
saying. I just wanted to have clear and definitely 16
where the public would know that they had the 17
opportunity. 18
MALE VOICE 1: Uh huh. 19
SENATOR DILAN: Then secondly, after—I am 20
supporting this motion. However, I would like to also 21
have the ability to discuss other business here. 22
MALE VOICE 1: Uh huh. 23
SENATOR DILAN: Today after we are done with 24
this? 25
MALE VOICE 1: Sure. 26
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SENATOR DILAN: Ok, thank you. 2
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Maybe we should 3
bring this to a vote too? 4
MALE VOICE 1: Yes. 5
MALE VOICE 2: Yes. 6
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: There is motion on the 7
floor that has been seconded. All those in favor 8
MALE VOICE 3: I 9
MALE VOICE 4: I 10
MALE VOICE 5: I 11
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: The proposal carries 12
unanimously those numbers that are certified on the—13
that are placed on the LATFOR website have been agreed 14
to and certified by the actions of this motion. 15
MR. ROMAN HEDGES, NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE 16
TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND 17
REAPPORTIONMENT: I would just like to add a couple of 18
observations, if I might. The, the, staff did a 19
fantastic job and they really need to be commended. I 20
am reluctant to name individuals because I’ll forget 21
someone, but a lot of people helped in a lot of 22
different ways and did really good work and I think 23
that if I look back on the product that I helped 24
produce to try to get this process started, we’ve got 25
a much better product now than we had then and I think 26
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that it’s because of the comments and questions and 2
pushing that the staff did to make sure that the 3
product was a much better one. 4
The second is to really reiterate what you 5
said about what we’re faced with going forward. I, I, 6
would certainly hope that the public that has not yet 7
submitted plans will still feel free to do that and I 8
would hope that groups that have already submitted 9
plans will be able to rethink in light of what’s 10
happened in the release of this data and as we go 11
forward through the hearing process we’re all going to 12
learn things and I’m expecting that we’re all going to 13
learn things and change our mind about things as we go 14
forward so I want to really reinforce what the 15
Senator’s premise was, which is this is not a finished 16
product, this is the beginning of a process to make it 17
so that everyone can participate and so that we can 18
learn some things. 19
SENATOR DILAN: I, I, agree with everything 20
you said and I think the staff did a fantastic job and 21
I even believe that the final product is better than I 22
expected so I commend everyone on that. So if we 23
could move on— 24
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: [Interposing] Before we 25
do, on this, if I may interrupt, Senator, on this 26
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issue, on the prisoner count issue, again I want to 2
reiterate my thanks to the citizen participant in 3
this—on this task force Roman Hedges, for your 4
efforts, Roman, in helping in terms of helping the 5
staff focus on this issue as— 6
I wear another hat in the legislature and 7
that is chairman of the New York State Standing 8
Committee on Crime Victims, Crime, and Corrections and 9
as such, for many years, have had jurisdiction over 10
the corrections department and the entire correctional 11
system in this state. I can say that it certainly was 12
not ever anticipated as the corrections department 13
takes intake of inmates and have had some of that 14
intake as old as three decades or more, that that 15
intake has just not been the type of intake necessary 16
to do the census taking that this law requires a 17
virtual census department to be placed within the 18
Department of Corrections. That’s more staff, more 19
cost, in order to do this correctly, then you would 20
have to have that type of total rethinking on the 21
protocols that are already in place for taking 22
prisoner intake information. 23
And there are going to have to be training, 24
just as the United States Census takers of which co-25
chair Assemblyman McEneny is an alumni of that 26
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organization. That the census taking process is 2
something that was very unfamiliar to the Department 3
of Corrections and expecting them to have the types of 4
information, people ask well why is it taking so long 5
to do this, why is it taking so—why is it so 6
laborious. It’s that way because the Department of 7
Corrections was never given that type of planning and 8
I think that may take legislation and I know 9
Assemblyman McEneny and I have discussed the 10
possibility of recommending that legislation to the—11
make this process one that is readily established. 12
With that, any other comments? 13
SENATOR DILAN: Yes, I would like to discuss 14
an issue which I believe that I have been bringing 15
before this committee which I believe started at the 16
very, very first hearing that we held. First of all, 17
at that time, I requested that this task force come up 18
with a transparent criteria that the public and 19
advocates could use and be guided by when they make 20
their submissions. I think during the 14 hearings 21
there were several individuals that testified with 22
respect to the size of the Senate, some advocating for 23
63, but a lot more testifying that the Senate should 24
remain at 62 as the constitution of the State of New 25
York requires in the 1894 formula. I want to know how 26
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last Friday at 5:00 p.m. in a very obscure spot of the 2
LATFOR Senate website a new policy memo appears 3
without the ratification of this panel. I want to 4
know how that happens and who authorized that. I 5
would like to know if that attorney is a staff member 6
of LATFOR or is he an outside consultant. 7
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator Dilan, you’re 8
referring to a memo from an attorney named Michael 9
Carbon who has been retained by this task force as—he 10
was retained by this task force in 2002 and in 1992 11
and it’s my understanding that Attorney Carbon placed 12
a memo after analyzing the tenets of the New York 13
State constitution and of which it was his 14
responsibility as counsel to this task force to—that 15
that report or analysis, if you will, just as he made 16
an analysis in 2002, was placed on the task force in 17
the same protocols that were established 10 years ago. 18
Now, it’s not a subject of—certainly 19
everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think that 20
those who testified, some of which are former Senate 21
Democrat staff members, during the course of the 22
hearing, who indicated as they were legally disclosed, 23
they were former staff members of the Senate Minority, 24
that they indicated in their testimony that they 25
believe the size of the Senate should be a certain 26
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number. It’s my understanding that the attorney for 2
this task force placed—in placing his memo on the 3
LATFOR website and analyzed those submissions and 4
dealt with them in his memorandum. His recommendation 5
is based on his analysis of the New York State 6
constitution. A constitution that derives a formula. 7
That constitution says that the assembly is fixed at 8
150. It also derives a formula that the Senate is 9
established through population growth and population 10
analysis and that analysis was done. It was done by 11
the attorney and that analysis was placed for the 12
public to review on the LATFOR website. Whether it 13
was 5:00 or—at night or 5:00 in the morning, it was 14
placed on the website when it was completed and that 15
analysis is for everyone to review. They’ll have 16
ample opportunity to review that analysis prior to the 17
beginnings of our second round of hearings. We assume 18
that certainly those that are interested will have the 19
opportunity to review that memo, to make their 20
comments known in the additional round of hearings 21
that we are going to be conducting beginning at the 22
end of this month. 23
SENATOR DILAN: Yeah, we can belabor this 24
for quite a while here today. I didn’t know that an 25
outside-retained attorney has the ability on his own 26
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to place something on our website without our approval 2
so before we will conclude today, I would like to make 3
a motion that any policy changes needs to be approved 4
by this panel in public before it’s done so I’m going 5
to make that as a form of a motion. Also, as a member 6
of this task force, I will be asking the Attorney 7
General of the State of New York to review that memo 8
and I will be asking for an Attorney General opinion 9
based on that memo. 10
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: It is certainly within 11
your rights to ask for anything, we should also know 12
that memos to the contrary were placed on our website 13
through the testimony of Mr. Brightbard, who I believe 14
testified at least twice, probably three or four 15
times, and I know the Senate Democrats also had some 16
surrogates for Mr. Brightbard who, when he could not 17
be at a hearing, someone else testified. I remember 18
answering—asking some of those attorneys questions. 19
Their testimony is on the website as well. 20
How do you define this motion— 21
SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] I would like 22
to ask you a question— 23
[crosstalk] 24
SENATOR DILAN: —I would just like to 25
comment in response to that— 26
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SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I am still 2
talking— 3
SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] You also have 4
your surrogates— 5
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: —I still have the floor, 6
Senator— 7
SENATOR DILAN: [Interposing] You also have 8
your census of every single county by way of— 9
SENTOR NOZZOLIO: —I am surprised you 10
interrupt me while I still have the floor, Senator. 11
SENATOR DILAN: Go ahead. 12
SENTOR NOZZOLIO: I am very surprised at 13
that. I know you don’t do that often, but I’m not 14
going to allow it in this case. I had yet not yielded 15
and I guess, in conclusion of my remarks, as a 16
question to you. What do you define as a policy 17
change and how can that be defined within the 18
ramifications of this task force? 19
SENATOR DILAN: Well, I know that when we 20
started these proceedings, I have commented I believe 21
at every single public hearing that the public has the 22
right to know if we’re going to drawing these lines 23
based on 62 or any other number, and I never got an 24
answer to that question from anyone on this panel. 25
You keep referring to Mr. Brightbard, who was a former 26
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staff person, and he was a former staff person before 2
I got to the Senate, which is about 10 years ago which 3
he has not worked here, but also you referred to other 4
surrogates that we may have had testify, I know none 5
of those individuals. Mr. Brightbard never worked for 6
me. He was never here while I was a state Senator. 7
But I do want to include in the record that your 8
conference had many surrogates via, via, law firms and 9
people who really had no idea or interest of the 10
redistricting process. They were all basically 11
verbatim, had the same testimony at every single 12
district and county throughout the state. 13
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator— 14
SENATOR DILAN: And their testimony is also 15
on the website. 16
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, please address 17
the question. You have a motion before the committee. 18
SENATOR DILAN: Ok 19
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And the question, there 20
is no second to that motion. I respectfully asked you 21
what do you define as policy change. 22
SENATOR DILAN: A policy change is that your 23
legal counsel since 2002 has a memo on our website and 24
on Friday of last week, just as your leader announces 25
that the Senate will increase by one seat, which I 26
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believe you made the comment Tuesday of last week. On 2
Friday you had a policy change with his new memo where 3
he use—you have a result—you have the result you know 4
you want 63 then he uses inconsistent methods of using 5
four counties. You use one method which was the way 6
he advocated for over 10 years on the website and then 7
the other two counties uses the reverse so you can get 8
the end result and how does your legal counsel, 9
without coming to the public or before this panel, 10
like Mr. Brightbard, and like every single other 11
surrogate who came before this panel, this was done in 12
the darkness of night. It did not appear before the 13
public and there it is, a new memo. 14
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: So, I take it that there 15
is a motion on the floor, it has not been seconded. 16
With that there will be no vote on it. And I would be 17
glad to discuss these policy issues with you that I 18
think that the Senator Majority leader was asked a 19
question and that he provided a very candid answer to 20
that he knew that there was an issue under review, 21
that is issue has been under review for months by the 22
counsel as brought forth by Mr. Brightbard’s analysis, 23
and that certainly can be reviewed on our website, 24
both Mr. Brightbard’s analysis and the counsel’s 25
analysis of that hearing. Any—someone else. 26
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ASSEMBLY MEMBER ROBERT OAKS, NEW YORK STATE 2
LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND 3
REAPPORTIONMENT: Just to the, the, co-chairs, I guess 4
I would just add and, as Senator Dilan has, has, 5
raised the question, I did not second it although I 6
see some reasons for putting that out as a motion, I 7
guess my concern is if we create that and we always 8
have to have meeting before something goes on the 9
website, I’m not sure that we can keep information 10
flowing in the way that is needed perhaps. From my 11
perspective, I would suggest though that perhaps when 12
things of substance are added to the website, perhaps 13
notification of the members of this task force would 14
at least perhaps allow review and keeping information 15
flowing. So I would just offer that as a thought as 16
we move forward. 17
SENATOR DILAN: I would just like to make a 18
final comment. You know, I’m really surprised that 19
you did not second it. The majority is in both houses 20
will totally ignore me and you and many of the 21
citizens of the State of New York and as we can see 22
what the outcome is going to be here is the same as it 23
has been for over 50 years and technically I believe 24
that the hearings that we held preliminary are a farce 25
and waste of time and money. 26
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ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Senator, I would 2
take except to that. My minority member is a 3
classmate. We get along very well. I try to keep him 4
informed of things and will be doing so more 5
intensely. I did not second your amendment because I 6
am not sure what the legal definition of policy is. 7
Policy could be all kinds of things and it could tie 8
up a process which we’re trying to accelerate because 9
of the federal court coming out we hope in a short 10
time giving us a—an almost unworkable primary date and 11
to interject a bureaucracy and perhaps the figurative 12
monk squall of—is that a policy issue or not a policy 13
issue on something that just popped up today, it just 14
didn’t look like something that I could second or 15
support. What’s policy? I think there’s probably 30 16
different opinions here in this room, all from people 17
of good will. I think that’s a pretty sweeping 18
structural change and I worry where it would go where 19
it would be passed ever to be passed as a resolution. 20
SENATOR DILAN: I would just like to say 21
thank you. It is business as usual. Thank you. 22
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Any other comments that 23
made before this commission—committee? With that, 24
Assemblyman. 25
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: One comment that 26
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our goal is still to start public hearings before the 2
end of the month, but those of you who are looking for 3
maps, it has been long been the custom that no less 4
than seven days notice would be given and with that 5
notice would be the maps. It is our goal, we haven’t 6
arrived at the exact schedule yet because we do not 7
want people planning for some date that might be 8
changed, but things are moving swiftly. We have—hope 9
to have those maps out at least seven days prior to 10
the first hearing. 11
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you very much. 12
(The public hearing concluded at 2:00 p.m.) 13
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C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Zola K. Dickerson, do hereby certify that the foregoing
typewritten transcription, consisting of pages number 1 to
30, inclusive, is a true record prepared by me and
completed from materials provided to me.
Zola K. Dickerson,
Transcriptionist
January 16, 2012
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STATE OF NEW YORK LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE
ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT
PUBLIC MEETING
LEGISLATIVE REDISTRICTING RECOMMENDATION
State Capitol Building, Room 123
Albany, New York
Wednesday, March 14, 2012
11:00 a.m.
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TASK FORCE MEMBERS PRESENT:
SENATOR MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO, Co-chair
ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY, Co-chair
SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN
ASSEMBLY MEMBER ROBERT OAKS
ROMAN HEDGES
DEBRA LEVINE
WELQUIS LOPEZ
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INDEX
Page MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO 4 SENATOR, CO-CHAIR NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON
DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT WELQUIS LOPEZ 4 NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT JOHN J. MCENENY 5 ASSEMBLYMAN, CO-CHAIR NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT MARTIN M. DILAN 5 SENATOR NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT ROMAN HEDGES 11
NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT
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(The public meeting commenced at 11:00 2
a.m.) 3
SENATOR MICHAEL F. NOZZOLIO, CO-CHAIR, 4
NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON 5
DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT: Good 6
morning. Good morning. The meeting of the New 7
York State Legislative Task Force on Demographic 8
Research and Reapportionment will come to order. 9
My name is Mike Nozzolio. I am the 10
Senate Co-chair of this task force along with my 11
colleague and dear friend Assemblyman Jack 12
McEneny. This meeting is an important one. 13
Without further ado, I would like to introduce 14
the Senate representatives on this task force. 15
To my immediate left is Senator Martin Dilan. To 16
his left is our citizen representative on the 17
task force, Welquis Ray Lopez. 18
WELQUIS LOPEZ, NEW YORK STATE 19
LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH 20
AND REAPPORTIONMENT: Thank you. 21
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And to his left is 22
co-executive director of the task force Debra 23
Levine. 24
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Assemblyman, would you be so kind as to 2
introduce the assembly-- 3
ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOHN J. MCENENY, CO-4
CHAIR, NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON 5
DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND REAPPORTIONMENT: 6
Assemblyman Jack McEneny, Co-Chair. I'm 7
representing the assembly. To my right, Bob 8
Oaks. Member of the Assembly representing the 9
minority in the assembly. To his right, Dr. 10
Roman Hedges who is the citizen representative on 11
the task force. 12
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: This task force has an 13
important responsibility, an obligation today. 14
It's a culmination of over 23 hearings in every 15
area of New York State, a plan that has been 16
proposed and proffered, and before consideration 17
I'd ask members of the task force if they have 18
any comments. Senator Dilan. 19
SENATOR MARTIN M. DILAN, NEW YORK STATE 20
LEGISLATIVE TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH 21
AND REAPPORTIONMENT: Good morning, everyone. 22
I'd just like to make several comments. First of 23
all, I was seriously considering boycotting this 24
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meeting this morning. I know that we did hold 23 2
hearings throughout the state of New York. We 3
had several business meetings where we did make 4
several commitments to the citizens of the state 5
of New York, and the reason I was considering 6
boycotting this meeting this morning is because 7
as I indicated once before, the entire process 8
has been a farce, a sham, has been a waste of 9
money, and I believe that we have not listened to 10
the citizens of the state of New York, and the 11
plan that's being presented today to the 12
Legislature is something that's putting the cart 13
before the horse. These bills were introduced at 14
about 11:50 p.m., just before midnight on Sunday. 15
Those bills were presented to the Legislature 16
without this panel taking a vote or making any 17
sort of recommendation, so it's really not a - - 18
plan. Those bills that are being voted in both 19
houses today are McEneny Nozzoilo Bill, LES - - 20
Silver Bills, and this entire process I indicated 21
was a total waste of time and it's--we failed 22
miserably in our mission and this meeting today 23
is itself a sham. The proposed lines were 24
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introduced. The first proposals were introduced 2
to the public without a vote by this panel. 3
Again, legislation was presented without a vote 4
by this panel. With respect to the Senate, an 5
additional seat was added without any action 6
taken by this panel. So, who decided that there 7
should be a 63rd seat? We didn't do that. I 8
would like to know that. I understand also that 9
with these lines there may be a proposal for 10
reforming this entire process. When will there 11
hearings to have community input with respect to 12
those reforms--so, in essence, what we're doing 13
here today is just confirming what the two 14
leaders of respective Houses want with no real 15
input from communities of interest. I think we 16
heard people in Long Island indicate that there 17
could be an additional minority seat in the 18
Senate out in Long Island. There could be 19
another one in Rochester, and there is also the 20
splitting of Niagra and Buffalo in Erie County, 21
and again, the entire process is a total waste of 22
time. 23
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Senator 24
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Dilan. Any other members of the task force wish 2
to make a statement? I do wish to respond in 3
part to Senator Dilan's comments. That I 4
certainly have enjoyed working with him through 5
the past few months, in hearing from citizens all 6
across the state. 7
The measure proffered today is in full 8
compliance with the United States' Constitution, 9
the New York State Constitution, the Federal 10
Voting Rights Act, and all applicable state law 11
that--including the law that was thrust upon this 12
task force on the prison counting, and I should 13
add, that measure was established in the New York 14
State Senate without so much as a single whisper 15
of a hearing. Senator Dilan, I may remind you of 16
that. Unfortunately, though, the law is the law, 17
regardless, and we took great steps and I want to 18
personally thank - - members of the Task Force. 19
A member of the Task Force, Roman Hedges, for his 20
leadership and support and assistance in ensuring 21
that the Section 20 of the Laws of New York State 22
were fully complied with and that that prison 23
counting issue was part of the series of laws 24
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that were conduct--that this body has fully 2
complied. There is a new Asian seat created, an 3
Asian minority majority seat created in the State 4
Senate--the first time in the Senate's history. 5
That seat was a direct reflection of a number of 6
discussions, primarily in the public hearings 7
that took place twice in Queens. There were over 8
approximately ten hours of hearings in Queens and 9
then the Asian-American seat created was created 10
as a result of those discussions. There are also 11
13 minority majority districts in this state. 12
Five of those districts were under the major--13
minority majority numbers as a result of the 2010 14
United States Census, and I'm very pleased 15
through the work of this task force that every 16
minority district was not only preserved but 17
strengthened in spite of shifting population 18
trends within the city of New York. 19
There are a number of other comments I 20
could make, but I want to make the task force for 21
their work, particularly the staff. That there 22
were a number of advertisements that existed 23
prior to the first round of hearings and prior to 24
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the second round of hearings. Those 2
advertisements were placed in foreign language 3
newspaper including Chinese, Korean, and Spanish. 4
With newspapers also utilized by the African 5
American and Indo-Caribbean American communities 6
throughout New York publicizing the hearings and 7
trying to ensure maximum participation. For the 8
first time in our State's history, LATFOR 9
established a website, and use of the internet 10
was extensive. That we took comment, posted 11
notice of public hearing and had a great deal of 12
input as a result of that website. Without 13
further ado, though, Assemblyman McEneny. 14
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Thank you, 15
Senator. I wanted to thank the members of the 16
LATFOR staff, and when we get to the floor, I'll 17
mention some of the staff that have backed us up 18
as well as the members here, and I would just 19
point out that for people who feel that this 20
process was dragged out, that in fact we are 21
weeks ahead of approving of a legislative plan 22
and months ahead of approving a congressional 23
plan compared to years gone by, and the reason 24
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for that is that the change has not been in the 2
performance of LATFOR in terms of the calendar, 3
but rather the changing of the calendar as 4
ordered by the justice department. We don't have 5
the time that we've had in the past, and I think 6
our job now--and I know this will be debated in 7
greater detail because our job now is to take the 8
work, which is the latest work and the final work 9
of LATFOR and pass it on for recommendation by 10
consideration by the two Houses of the 11
legislature, and so unless someone else wishes to 12
make a comment. Did you…? 13
ROMAN HEDGES, NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATIVE 14
TASK FORCE ON DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH AND 15
REAPPORTIONMENT: Just in the way of information 16
about things that we've done, I'm real pleased 17
about the prison adjustment and I want to thank 18
all of you for helping in that. The staff--the 19
joint staff in particular was just 20
extraordinarily helpful all the way through. 21
Both the cartographic staff headed by Chris Ruiz 22
[phonetic] and the demographic staff headed by 23
Isaac Pheffer [phonetic] did just a great job. 24
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On substance, in the assembly side of the 2
proposal that's going to the legislature we were 3
able to create three additional majority Hispanic 4
districts, one additional African-American 5
district, two additional Asian-American 6
districts, and I think that that's a remarkable 7
accomplishment, and I'm particularly pleased 8
about that, and with that having been said, I 9
think I'm finished for the day. 10
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you very much, 11
Assemblyman. I would remiss if I didn't also 12
thank our other citizen representative on the 13
task force. Welquis Ray Lopez was invaluable 14
throughout this process, even acted as 15
interpreter during some of our hearings. We 16
appreciate his efforts and call above and beyond 17
the call of duty and thank you very much for your 18
great work. 19
MR. WELQUIS LOPEZ: Thank you very much. 20
SENATOR DILAN: May I move that the 21
final report of LATFOR be advance to the 22
legislature for its consideration? 23
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: There's a motion on 24
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consideration. Is there a second? 2
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Second. 3
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Motion's been moved 4
and seconded. It's up for consideration. 5
Senator Dilan. 6
SENATOR DILAN: Is anything in writing 7
that you're presenting us today in terms of what 8
you're actually submitting to the legislature or 9
can you at least give us an outline of what 10
you're talking about? 11
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: It's the books that 12
have been distributed to all the members and 13
there are extra copies I believe on the desk to 14
the members. 15
SENATOR DILAN: So, the only thing that 16
you're forwarding to legislature is the Assembly 17
and Senate lines, nothing else? 18
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: At this time, that's 19
all I believe the law requires. 20
SENATOR DILAN: All right. Thank you. 21
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Senator 22
Dilan. This motion for consideration has been 23
seconded. All those in favor? 24
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ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Aye. 2
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Aye. Opposed? 3
SENATOR DILAN: Aye. 4
SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator Dilan. 5
Motion's carried. The work of the task force has 6
been completed. Thank you very, very much. 7
SENATOR DILAN: Thank you. 8
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MCENENY: Thank you. 9
(The public meeting concluded at 11:13 10
a.m.) 11
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C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Christine Morrell, do hereby certify that the foregoing
typewritten transcription, consisting of pages number 1 to
15, inclusive, is a true record prepared by me and
completed from materials provided to me.
Christine Morrell, Transcriptionist
March 15, 2012 Date
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