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#CommsChat Transcript 8/11/2010

“What can you do to stop PR spam?” w/ @jangles

7:58 pm   AdamVincenzini: Looking forward to the discussion tonight - big thanks to @ jangles for leading this one :)#commschat 

7:59 pm   PRAMITASEN: @CarliR6 http://tweetchat.com/room/commschat  #commschat 

7:59 pm    jane63c: @CarliR6 http://tweetchat.com/room/commschat  #commschat 

7:59 pm   AdamVincenzini: @CarliR6 tweetchat.com :) #commschat 

7:59 pm   NotFromBolton: Evening ladies and gents :) #commschat 

7:59 pm   Dan_Martin: @ jangles Evening Neville. Good to see you as a #CommsChat host! #commschat 

8:00 pm   CarliR6: @ jane63c @PRAMITASEN @ AdamVincenzini - Thank you :-) I shall take note and not ask

again hehe looking forward to it tonight :-) #commschat 

8:00 pm   Dan_Martin: @NotFromBolton Fancy seeing you here! ;o) #commschat 

8:00 pm   NotFromBolton:  http://tweetchat.com/room/commschat   join us if you like ;) #commschat 

8:00 pm   ppnc09: Hello from the Southeastern United States, all! #commschat 

8:00 pm    jangles: @Dan_Martin welcome Dan. Hope you have lots of points to make ;)#CommsChat #commschat 

8:01 pm   PRAMITASEN: @NotFromBolton  A very Good Afternoon/Evening to you! :-) #commschat 

8:01 pm   NotFromBolton: @Dan_Martin LOL evening chap, that Guy Fawkes example went down a storm on Friday.Thanks :) #commschat 

8:02 pm    jane63c: @CarliR6 comes to something when I know more about this than you do! #commschat 

8:02 pm   NotFromBolton: @PRAMITASEN  Afternoon/evening back at you :) #commschat 

8:02 pm   CarliR6: Evening all :-) I'm Carli, a PR student at the Uni of Lincoln - graduating soon, exciting times!#commschat 

8:02 pm   CommsChat: Here we go. Please welcome our host @ jangles, introduce yourself and we'll have Q1 in afew moments. #CommsChat 

8:02 pm   Dan_Martin: @ jangles I do have a few views on tonight's topic! #commschat 

8:03 pm   CarliR6: @ jane63c haha I always get stuck when I try and get to this room thing...I forget every week

- it is on a post it now hehe #commschat 

8:03 pm    jane63c: maybe distracted just heard David Bowie is not well #commschat 

8:03 pm    jangles: So we get started! #commschat 

8:03 pm   Dan_Martin: @NotFromBolton Pleased to hear it. The invoice is in the post! ;o) #commschat 

8:03 pm   AdamVincenzini: Evening all, Adam V here, co-founder of this weekly chat with @emilycagle - really excitedabout having @ jangles hosting tonight #commschat 

8:03 pm   AdParker : Evening Neville. Hello from the North East of England :-) #commschat 

8:03 pm   EmilyCagle: RT @commschat: Here we go. Please welcome our host @ jangles, introduce yourself and

we'll have Q1 in a few moments. #CommsChat 

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8:03 pm   sandrulee: Hi everyone! I'm Sandra from Turkey, joining from TX,US :) Communications grad student in@WTAMU with a focus on PR #commschat 

8:03 pm   CarliR6: Evening all :-) Im Carli, a PR student at the Uni of Lincoln - graduating soon, exciting times!#commschat 

8:04 pm 

Dan_Martin: @CarliR6 @ jane63c  A post-it? What's that? ;o) #commschat 

8:04 pm    jangles: Adam, Emily, thanks, time to get going. A short introduction first... #commschat 

8:04 pm    jane63c: good luck @ jangles, hope it goes well #commschat 

8:04 pm   Dan_Martin: Dan Martin. Editor of BusinessZone.co.uk and PR manager for @daisychainbaby #commschat 

8:04 pm   coachclaire: @EmilyCagle Good Evening! #CommsChat 

8:04 pm   EmilyCagle: Hello all. Emily Cagle here, co-founder of #CommsChat with @ AdamVincenzini (we have@ jangleshosting tonight so come join in!)

8:04 pm 

behindthespin: Keeping half an eye on things this evening. Hello @ jangles and everyone. #CommsChat 8:04 pm   CarliR6: @Dan_Martin @ jane63c hehe :-) #commschat 

8:05 pm    jangles: I'm Neville Hobson in the UK. I'm with WCG in London, head of social media Europe. Beenblogging etc since 2002. #commschat 

8:05 pm   pracademy: Kevin Ruck, PR Academy, we teach CIPR qualifications. #commschat 

8:05 pm   PRAMITASEN: Pramita sen. Marketing & sales Associate in a niche finance industry, USA. #commschat 

8:05 pm   mazherabidi: Maz here, freelancing in a social media marketing job at the moment, looking for a one permafter finishing my postgrad MSc #commschat 

8:05 pm    jane63c: Jane Crofts, I try to keep @CarliR6 focussed at the University of Lincoln #commschat 

8:06 pm   NotFromBolton: Hi, I am a social media mentor working with businesses in the UK to help them get a grip onsocial media communications :) #commschat 

8:06 pm    jangles: So the topic today is this: What should you do to stop PR spam? Big topic, lots of ways totalk about it. Let me set the scene... #commschat 

8:06 pm   CarliR6: RT @ jane63c: Jane Crofts, I try to keep @CarliR6 focussed at the University of Lincoln ////doing a good job ;-) haha #commschat 

8:06 pm    jangles: First, what is PR spam and do we agree that it is a huge problem in the profession? Let meoffer def then ask views. #commschat 

8:07 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @ jangles: Q1 So the topic today is this: What should you do to stop PR spam? Big topic,

lots of ways to talk about it. #commschat 

8:07 pm   barbaranixon: Hello to my friends across the pond. I'm Barbara & I teach public relations at 2 universities inthe southern USA. #commschat 

8:07 pm    jangles: PR spam primarily refers to email as the medium... #commschat 

8:07 pm   stevebridger : I work (mainly) with big UK charities - helping 'em trust more of their own people to buildrelationships online. Somerset-based. #commschat 

8:07 pm    jangles: The product or service being pitched by email is so obviously not one that I would havemuch interest in... #commschat 

8:08 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @ jangles: First, what is PR spam and do we agree that it is a huge problem in the

profession? Let me offer def then ask views. #commschat 

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8:08 pm   michael_taggart: Mike, here. Head of media relations at Brighton & Hove City Council and blogger #commschat#commschat 

8:08 pm   elissapr : Elissa here from Toronto, Canada - checking in for 30 minutes for #CommsChat! 

8:08 pm    jangles: ...a fact that would be clear if the pitcher had taken a glance at my blog or listened to my

podcast... #commschat 

8:08 pm    jangles: ...The email includes an unsolicited Word document attachment... #commschat 

8:08 pm   AdamVincenzini: @barbaranixon lovely to have you here :) #commschat 

8:09 pm   sandrulee: RT @ jangles: So the topic today is this:What should you do to stop PR spam? Big topic, lotsof ways to talk about it. #commschat 

8:09 pm    jangles: ...The pitcher writes a pseudo-friendly greeting but it only looks like a bad database mailmerge. #commschat 

8:09 pm   SteveKuncewicz: RT @mazherabidi: Maz here, freelancing in a social media marketing job at the moment,looking for a one perm after finishing my postgrad MSc #commschat 

8:09 pm   clairecelsi: Hi everyone! Claire Celsi from Iowa. I own my own social media/PR consulting firm &occassionally teach Univ. level classes #commschat 

8:09 pm   AdamFairclough: Late to the party! Adam here, I do regen, environment and community comms in publicsector org, as well as more general PR stuff #commschat 

8:09 pm    jangles: That's 3 ways I define PR spam. What else? #commschat 

8:09 pm   NotFromBolton: Surely spam is in the eye of the beholder. Pitcher sends you an interesting article youreceive spam? #commschat 

8:09 pm   princessemie: RT @CarliR6: Evening all :-) I'm Carli, a PR student at the Uni of Lincoln - graduating soon,exciting times! #commschat 

8:10 pm   Dan_Martin: Q1: PR spam is material that's completely irrelevant to my audience. I think it is a problemthat's getting worse #commschat 

8:10 pm    jangles: RT @Dan_Martin: Q1: PR spam is material thats completely irrelevant to my audience. Ithink it is a problem thats getting worse #commschat 

8:10 pm   AdamVincenzini: @barbaranixon @clairecelsi great to have you both here tonight :) #CommsChat 

8:10 pm   markpinsent: @ jangles Don't necessarily agree that PR spam meeds to include an attachment. Surely it'sanything unsolicited and untargeted? #CommsChat 

8:10 pm   LizzHarmon: Lizz here, owner HarmonTampa PR. First time on this chat. #commschat 

8:11 pm   NotFromBolton: @Dan_Martin Educate us on what to do then sir ;) #commschat 

8:11 pm   ItsPHILCLARKSON: RT @NotFromBolton: Hi, I am a social media mentor working with businesses in the UK tohelp them get a grip on social media communications :) #commschat 

8:11 pm   michael_taggart: I think it's spam if the recipient's identity/interests etc are irrelevant to the sender.#commschat 

8:11 pm    jangles: @markpinsent agree; that's just an example. #commschat 

8:11 pm   PRAMITASEN: It happnd to me 2day.There was no word doc involved,but it was in an email format.Thepitcher had no idea what my blog was about! #commschat 

8:11 pm   thornley: Not a big problem. If it's sent from one source too frequently, I put the source in my spamfolder. Problem solved. #Commschat 

8:11 pm   stevebridger : Q1: certainly feels like spam when someone asks I blog about something on a blog where I

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evidently haven't posted for 3 years #commschat 

8:12 pm   Dan_Martin: Q1: I'm ok with pseudo-friendly greetings if it's something I want to write about and myaudience want to read #commschat 

8:12 pm   LizzHarmon: RT @thornley: Not a big problem. If its sent from one source too frequently, I put the source

in my spam folder. Problem solved. #commschat 

8:12 pm   CarliR6: I think SPAM gives the PR discipline a bad name and is a result of bad research on the partof the spammer.... #commschat 

8:12 pm   clairecelsi: @ AdamVincenzini Glad to be a part of it! #commschat 

8:12 pm    jangles: @markpinsent it's actually the 'untargeted' bit that offends not so much 'unsolicited.'#commschat 

8:12 pm    jane63c: so, who are the pitchers? are too many agencies leaving the initial contact to the office junior? research suggests this is so #commschat 

8:12 pm   CommsChat:  #CommsChat we're on Q1: 3 things that characterise PR spam: pseudo-personalised

greeting, unsolicited attchmnt, irrelevant topic. What else?

8:12 pm   mazherabidi: Not better to educate the offender? RT @thornley If its sent from one source frequently, putthe source in spam. Problem solved. #commschat 

8:12 pm   elissapr : Good point! RT @NotFromBolton Surely spam is in eye of the beholder. Pitcher sends youan interesting article you receive spam? #commschat 

8:12 pm   Dan_Martin: @NotFromBolton Have a look at my website & read our media pack. That's all PRs need todo. #commschat 

8:12 pm   paulfabretti: Q1: If you ask me, there is just too much damn ego with bloggers. #commschat thinkpseudo-importance rather than pseuo-friendship.

8:12 pm 

LizzHarmon: RT @ jangles: @markpinsent its actually the untargeted bit that offends not so muchunsolicited. #commschat 

8:12 pm   Dan_Martin: RT @ jangles: @markpinsent its actually the untargeted bit that offends not so muchunsolicited. #PR#commschat 

8:13 pm   AdamFairclough: Spam is a badly targeted pitch in various guises that sometimes passes itself of for something else, bordering on the sinister #commschat 

8:13 pm   markpinsent: Q1: PR spam - unsolicited, untailored, untargeted and unwanted. #CommsChat 

8:13 pm   stevebridger : RT @Dan_Martin: RT @ jangles: @markpinsent its actually the untargeted bit that offendsnot so much unsolicited. #PR <-- agree #commschat 

8:13 pm 

AdParker : RT @markpinsent: Q1: PR spam - unsolicited, untailored, untargeted and unwanted.#CommsChat 

8:13 pm    jangles: RT @CarliR6: I think SPAM gives the PR discipline a bad name and is a result of badresearch on the part of the spammer.... #commschat 

8:13 pm   behindthespin: RT @markpinsent: Q1: PR spam - unsolicited, untailored, untargeted and unwanted.#CommsChat 

8:13 pm   clairecelsi: I think reporters need to take charge of their inboxes instead of complaining. Make allincoming email verify their intentions. #commschat 

8:13 pm   CarliR6: @ jane63c I agree - often mailing lists are created by the office junior and then the releases just get sent out. #commschat 

8:13 pm   Dan_Martin: @paulfabretti But relevance is important don't you think? Bloggers are generally specialist,

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write about niche areas #commschat 

8:14 pm   markpinsent: @ jangles Yes, that's true. Unsolicited is fine if it's relevant, interesting and useful.#CommsChat 

8:14 pm    jangles: RT @ AdParker : RT @markpinsent: Q1: PR spam - unsolicited, untailored, untargeted and

unwanted. #commschat 

8:14 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @Dan_Martin: @NotFromBolton Have a look at my website & read our media pack.Thats all PRs need to do. #commschat 

8:14 pm   b33god:  #commschat  All PR is spam.

8:14 pm   Dan_Martin: @clairecelsi What do you mean by "verify their intentions"? #commschat 

8:14 pm   mazherabidi: Start of any journo/PR relationship will be unsolicited. First intro etc. Surely it's the lack of research that's the prob? #commschat 

8:14 pm   paulfabretti: @markpinsent I'd totally agree with that, but most bloggers need to get a grip. 500 readersdoes not an audience make. #CommsChat 

8:14 pm   michael_taggart: My blog spam actually amuses me - the pathetic way to bot tries to trick you by using your name and using general terms. #commschat 

8:15 pm   elissapr : RT @thornley Must agree! We can define spam as those emails/pitches that bother us. Justpress delete! #CommsChat 

8:15 pm   clairecelsi: Q1 The bosses insisting that the spam (aka "touches") go out. The underlings just do it w/little supervision #commschat 

8:15 pm   AdParker : RT @markpinsent: @ jangles Yes, that's true. Unsolicited is fine if it's relevant, interestingand useful. #CommsChat < agreed 1st time

8:15 pm   LizzHarmon: @b33god Why do you say all PR is spam? #commschat 

8:15 pm    jangles: Terrific opinions about PR spam, so many varied. Ok, let's move the conversation forward toanother question... #commschat 

8:15 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @elissapr : RT @thornley Must agree! We can define spam as those emails/pitches thatbother us. Just press delete! #commschat 

8:15 pm   AdamFairclough: RT @mazherabidi: Start of any journo/PR relationship will be unsolicited. First intro etc.Surely lack of research is prob? #commschat 

8:15 pm   CarliR6: @mazherabidi It's all about the way they go about it... sending rubbishy press releases isn'tthe start of a good relationship #commschat 

8:16 pm    jangles: Q2: Who has responsibility for addressing PR spam? #commschat 

8:16 pm   paulfabretti: And don't for ONE MINUTE think that it is financially viable to thoroughly examine and read ALL blog posts by ALL bloggers. #commschat 

8:16 pm   Dan_Martin: Q1 PRs are under increasing pressure to deliver coverage whatever the publication which isleading to more PR spam #commschat 

8:16 pm   SteveKuncewicz: RT @paulfabretti: Q1: If you ask me, there is just too much damn ego with bloggers.#commschatthink pseudo-importance rather than pseuo-friendship.

8:16 pm   mazherabidi: @CarliR6 Exactly - and that is basically spam. I would think unsolicited but relevant is howrel. starts? #commschat 

8:16 pm   clairecelsi: @Dan_Martin There are email programs that force u to give more info about yourself, like a

comment verfication system on a blog. #commschat 

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8:16 pm   markpinsent: @ jgombita Emailed press releases are fine if they reach the right people. But you're rightabut PR having a much larger remit. #CommsChat 

8:16 pm   b33god: @LizzHarmon It's unauthentic manipulation of the public (playing devils advocate)#commschat 

8:16 pm 

AdParker : RT @paulfabretti: And don't for ONE MINUTE think that it is financially viable to thoroughlyexamine and read ALL blog posts by ALL bloggers. #commschat 

8:16 pm   elissapr : Q1 Unwanted/sub-par pitches have been around since PR was invented - call it what youwill...it's not going to go away! #CommsChat 

8:16 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: Q2: Who has responsibility for addressing PR spam? #commschat 

8:17 pm   CarliR6: Q2. The people sending it out I'd say, they should make sure that they are sending it to theright people - waste everyones time. #commschat 

8:17 pm    jane63c: RT @clairecelsi: Q1 The bosses insisting that the spam (aka "touches") go out. Theunderlings just do it w/ little supervision #commschat 

8:17 pm 

barbaranixon: Really? What leads you to think that way? RT @b33god #commschat  All PR is spam.

8:17 pm   AdamFairclough: The onus should be on the recipient of spam to tell its sender that they're terrible at their job#commschat 

8:17 pm   clairecelsi: @Dan_Martin The filter allows the email recipient to opt you in to his/her email inbox, andblock you if you fail. #commschat 

8:17 pm   LizzHarmon: @Dan_Martin Very good point Dan. Especially as # of media outlets is shrinking. Morepressure to get coverage in existing pubs. #commschat 

8:17 pm   EmilyCagle: RT @commschat: RT @ jangles: Q2: Who has responsibility for addressing PR spam?#commschat 

8:17 pm 

Dan_Martin: @paulfabretti @markpinsent So why do PRs bother to pitch them if they think that?#commschat 

8:17 pm   paulfabretti: @Dan_Martin Part of the challenge is the moving definition of what an influencer is hencethe ambiguity over what's said to whom #commschat 

8:17 pm   PRAMITASEN: Q2>Mostly it is the spam victim(s). However, orgs./councils have to step in when certainspams get out of hanf. #commschat 

8:17 pm   mazherabidi: Q2: Addressing it for journo it's stopping the spam. For PR it's learning to send relevantthings to right ppl. Manager's resp. #commschat 

8:17 pm   michael_taggart: Q2 - Spammers can't be stopped but isn't it self-policing? Regular spammers almost NEVERsucceed. #commschat 

8:17 pm   CarliR6: @mazherabidi Yes - could say that phonecalls were unsolicited too - have to make contactsome how. Needs to have personalisation. #commschat 

8:18 pm   elissapr : RT @ jangles: Q2: Who has responsibility for addressing PR spam? #commschat 

8:18 pm    jangles: Is the responsibility with the professional associations? CIPR has a spamming charter (moreon that in a minute). #commschat 

8:18 pm   AdParker : @CarliR6 is that really the case when it is carried out by junior staff? #commschat 

8:18 pm   CarliR6: @ AdamFairclough haha love it - thats one way to look at it! What do you think about namingand shaming? #commschat 

8:18 pm 

 jane63c: A2 the way agencies organise themselves and forget the priorities has to sit firmly with theleaders #commschat 

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8:18 pm   wadds: @paulfabretti Depends entirely on the niche. 500 millionaires? #CommsChat 

8:18 pm   AdamFairclough: RT @b33god: @LizzHarmon Its unauthentic manipulation of the public (playing devilsadvocate) Loving @b33god's comments! #commschat 

8:18 pm   Dan_Martin: @paulfabretti Whoever the "influencer" is, the content has to be relevant. It's that simple.

#commschat 

8:18 pm    jangles: Is it the PR agency? If so who? The account exec? The senior VP? What about the client?#commschat 

8:18 pm   paulfabretti: @Dan_Martin @markpinsent because most PR's do not understand what makes someoneinfluential - volume does not equal influence #commschat 

8:18 pm   amandacomms: Targeting is the key and making sure you know who your audience is #commschat 

8:18 pm   clairecelsi: Q2: like so many other issues in PR, all organizations have responsibility to educate PRpeople. #Commschat 

8:19 pm   AdamVincenzini: Q2, A: Like most things in life, individual responsibility plays the most integral role.

#commschat 

8:19 pm   pracademy: Professional associations should set standards, but responsibility lies with practitioners.#commschat 

8:19 pm   mazherabidi: Q2: if the spammer is a junior pr though, surely it's the managers/trainers/mentors whoshould know better? #commschat 

8:19 pm   CarliR6: @ AdParker  If I didn't think that one of the recips of the email was relevent I would say - butmany juniors wouldn't. #commschat 

8:19 pm   paulfabretti: @wadds absolutely fiar point mate yes - was meant in the context of widespread "retail"bloggers #CommsChat 

8:19 pm 

LizzHarmon: @ AdamFairclough I agree. Why can't journo have canned response - Not my beat. I cover X. #commschat 

8:19 pm    jangles: And what about data providers like Vocus and Cision? What's their responsibiluty?#commschat 

8:19 pm   clairecelsi: Q2: Reporters have a responsibility to send a short reply that says: This is spam. Stop it nowor I will report you to your boss! #commschat 

8:19 pm   AdParker : @CarliR6 management sets the tone surely though? #commschat 

8:19 pm    jangles: RT @pracademy: Professional associations should set standards, but responsibility lies withpractitioners. #commschat 

8:19 pm 

amandacomms: RT @pracademy: Professional associations should set standards, but responsibility lies withpractitioners. #commschat 

8:20 pm    jane63c: good point @ jangles the client often wants to know lots have gone out regardless of quality,rememebr many ridiculous targets #commschat 

8:20 pm   elissapr : @ jangles Q2 What exactly is a 'spamming charter'? Is it like the hippocratic (or should I say'hypocritical') oath?? #CommsChat 

8:20 pm   markpinsent: Q2: Responsibility lies with the practitioners. The person who chooses to press 'send'.#CommsChat 

8:20 pm   CarliR6: @ AdParker  - I meant ***wasn't relevent. Would you say it was the directors responsibility?#commschat 

8:20 pm   sandrulee: Q2: I think the supervisors have a huge role. They should be checking if their releases goes

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out to the right people. #commschat 

8:20 pm   patrickjpr : Q2 I think agencies should push back more on clients and clients should listen #commschat 

8:20 pm   LizzHarmon: @mazherabidi So many of the journos are changing roles. Hard to keep up. #commschat 

8:20 pm 

CommsChat: RT @ jangles: Is it the PR agency? If so who? The account exec? The senior VP? Whatabout the client? #commschat 

8:20 pm   paulfabretti: @Dan_Martin agreed #commschat 

8:20 pm   Dan_Martin: @paulfabretti @markpinsent So your blogger with 500 readers that you mention earlier could be infuential then? #commschat 

8:20 pm   patrickjpr : Q2 It should be less about releases pushed out, and more about genuine coverageopportunities #commschat 

8:20 pm   b33god: @BarbaraNixon Hard to answer in 140. I have a gut 'distrust', tho many of my friends andalot of what I do is PR. Go figure. #commschat 

8:20 pm 

AdamVincenzini: @patrickjpr  much easier said than done on occasion :) #commschat 8:21 pm   CarliR6: @ AdParker  - Yes I agree - I think everyone has to be brave enough to say. Bosses should

take a guidance role....their rep too. #commschat 

8:21 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: And what about data providers like Vocus and Cision? What's their responsibiluty? #commschat 

8:21 pm   elissapr : @LizzHarmon @ AdamFairclough Q2 I agree - the judger of spam is the recipient. Theresponsibility lies with the sender. #CommsChat 

8:21 pm   mazherabidi: @LizzHarmon Think it's part of the PR's job to keep up with journos in their industry thoughno? #commschat 

8:21 pm   Dan_Martin: @clairecelsi It's not that type of spam we're talking about #commschat 

8:21 pm   AdamFairclough: @CarliR If everyone named and shamed a spammer, the world would be a much better place #commschat 

8:21 pm   patrickjpr : Agree RT @markpinsent Q2: Responsibility lies with the practitioners. The person whochooses to press 'send'. #CommsChat 

8:21 pm   LizzHarmon: @sandrulee I think part of problem is social media real-time news cycle. Everything has tobe now vs. right (in terms of lists). #commschat 

8:21 pm   paulfabretti: @Dan_Martin @markpinsent well as @wadds said, the context of the audience is the factor here. I was talking widespread reach #commschat 

8:21 pm   suellewellyn: Build relationships not mailing lists #commschat 

8:21 pm    jane63c: interesting about wanting clients to listen - recall a debate when it was if the client wants itthats what we do (18th Oct)! #commschat 

8:21 pm   wadds: RT @ jangles: And what about data providers like Vocus and Cision? What's their responsibility? #commschat <+1

8:21 pm   CarliR6: @patrickjpr  not always how evaluations are carried out - often quantity rather than quality...#commschat 

8:21 pm   paulfabretti: @Dan_Martin but in the right context yes - absolutely, depending on what market and their content #commschat 

8:21 pm    jangles: @elissapr  Here's the CIPR's charter: http://is.gd/gQody #commschat 

8:22 pm    jane63c: RT @suellewellyn: Build relationships not mailing lists #commschat 

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8:22 pm   behindthespin: If people choose spam over relationships, then naming and shaming works. #commschat 

8:22 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @suellewellyn: Build relationships not mailing lists // Wise words in any business#commschat 

8:22 pm   patrickjpr : @ AdamVincenzini I agree it's not easy, doesn't stop it being the right thing to do

#commschat 

8:22 pm   Dan_Martin: @CommsChat Data providers have huge responsibility. Their categorisation of journalists'subjects is generally awful #commschat 

8:22 pm    jgombita: @b33god after #commschat is over have a read of @avrilbenoit interview (by @M_Lunney),then tell me if she does "spam": http://ow.ly/35wqx 

8:22 pm   CarliR6: @ AdamFairclough - would certainly encourage people to research more! #commschat 

8:22 pm   sandrulee: @LizzHarmon yes, but shouldn't someone double check the lists, and someone shouldmake sure that that happens? #commschat 

8:22 pm   LizzHarmon: @mazherabidi Sure it is, but journos sure can help. If they remain silent, they're equally at

fault, I feel. #commschat 

8:22 pm   LitmanLive: @ jangles @markpinsent Google Wave would be perfect for this. More private real time chat.#Commschat itself is a bit spammy in my stream.

8:22 pm    jangles: RT @patrickjpr : Agree RT @markpinsent Q2: Responsibility lies with the practitioners. Theperson who chooses to press send. #commschat 

8:22 pm   markpinsent: I don't think many clients would want agencies spamming on their behalf. It's the agenciesbeing desperate to get some results. #CommsChat 

8:22 pm   AdamVincenzini: @behindthespin I don't think there is ever a case for naming and shaming - counter productive #commschat 

8:22 pm 

paulfabretti: RT @patrickjpr : Q2 I think agencies should push back more on clients and clients shouldlisten #commschat 

8:22 pm   ppnc09: @suellewellyn amen to that #commschat #commschat 

8:23 pm   wadds: Dropping in and out of #commschat on train south

8:23 pm   patrickjpr : To many poor PR practitioners think that the answer to any question is a press release -hence more spam #commschat 

8:23 pm   mazherabidi: Gotta be careful not to punish the junior who's learning their way and is prob under orders of some manager. They have resp. too #commschat 

8:23 pm    jangles: RT @ AdamVincenzini: @behindthespin I dont think there is ever a case for naming and

shaming - counter productive #commschat 

8:23 pm   NotFromBolton: Surely the point is that spam just doesn't work anymore, this in itself should be reasonenough to try other approaches? #commschat 

8:23 pm   clairecelsi: Q2: I also think organizations like PRSA and IABC could help by doing a joint educationcampaign and having a reporting mechanism #Commschat 

8:23 pm   mazherabidi: @LizzHarmon V. true. Both sides need to work together. Relationship. it's what it's about.#commschat 

8:23 pm    jangles: @LitmanLive Google Wave is in imminent demise though... #commschat 

8:23 pm   paulfabretti: @ jangles @ jangles @ AdamVincenzini @behindthespin couldn't agree more - arrogant at

best #commschat 

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8:23 pm   ega1: for Drs. lawyers engineers? RT @ jangles: RT @pracademy: Professional associations setstandards, responsibility w/practitioners. #commschat 

8:23 pm   sandrulee: @LitmanLive how would we grow then? the tweets attracts people who share the sameinterests as us... #commschat 

8:23 pm 

michael_taggart: The pressure often comes from the client - surely they need to be educated about thewrongs and rights too? #commschat 

8:24 pm   LizzHarmon: @sandrulee I don't think lists can be checked as often as they shld be. PRs are human too.#commschat 

8:24 pm   elissapr : @ jangles These are great principles ; shld be part of PR pros foundation of learning; inschool and on the job http://is.gd/gQody #Commschat 

8:24 pm   behindthespin: Transparency means that naming and shaming is unavoidable # commschat 

8:24 pm   maxtb:  #CommsChat  All discussion of PR spam which doesn't involve offering a technologicalsolution is meaningless.

8:24 pm 

patrickjpr : @CarliR6 I know, but still poor practice (also not saying I'm perfect) #commschat 

8:24 pm   b33god: @BarbaraNixon It's unfair to pick out PR 'spam' Anything unwanted is spam. Filter it out or deal with it. They'll get what works #commschat 

8:24 pm   vocus: Q2: We encourage building relationships http://bit.ly/bzL7Wh discourage spam/provide ahotline to alleviate http://bit.ly/aqqIdz  #commschat 

8:24 pm   clairecelsi: @ AdamVincenzini I disagree...sometimes naming and shaming is the only way to breakthrough the clutter. #commschat 

8:24 pm   michael_taggart: Join me for a #commschat TweetChatat: http://tweetchat.com/room/commschat  #commschat 

8:24 pm 

AdParker : RT @maxtb: #CommsChat  All discussion of PR spam which doesn't involve offering atechnological solution is meaningless.

8:24 pm   CarliR6: @michael_taggart - True - sometimes just want quantity for their money....not us working onrelationships. #commschat 

8:25 pm   richsimcox: RT @patrickjpr : To many poor PR practitioners think that the answer to any question is apress release - hence more spam #commschat 

8:25 pm    jangles: If I summarize what I'm seeing from tweets it's this: responsibility for spam lies with thesender. Fair assessment? #commschat 

8:25 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @b33god: @BarbaraNixon Its unfair to pick out PR spam Anything unwanted is spam.Filter it out or deal with it. #commschat 

8:25 pm   elissapr : @LizzHarmon @sandrulee  Agree lists should be checked - but need dedicated resource todo this...every week. #CommsChat 

8:25 pm   sandrulee: @LizzHarmon but most of the spam can be eliminated even if they are checked every 6months or something... like a crisis plan... #commschat 

8:25 pm   Dan_Martin: @maxtb There are lots of human factors involved as well such as reading the publicationyou're targeting! #commschat 

8:25 pm   AdamVincenzini: @clairecelsi all naming and shaming does is make PR people more nervous about engagingwith media, I can't endorse it...ever #commschat 

8:26 pm   patrickjpr : I should have said 'too many ..' #oops #commschat 

8:26 pm   CarliR6: @elissapr  - I agree - it's often a job that gets put on the back burner all the time until

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someone is willing to do it #commschat 

8:26 pm   clairecelsi: If I got a cheeky message back from a reporter that said, "This is your one and only chanceto never spam me again.." I'd listen #commschat 

8:26 pm   sandrulee: agreed! RT @ jangles: If I summarize what Im seeing f/ tweets its this:responsibility 4 spam

lies with the sender.Fair assessment? #commschat 

8:26 pm   AdamFairclough: Naming and shaming is not as arrogant spamming someone into an early grave. Plus, thecontroversy generates debate - always good #commschat 

8:26 pm   CarliR6: There is the information out there to make sure you are sending things to the right people sowhy don't people use them!? :-S #commschat 

8:26 pm   michael_taggart: @CarliR6  Also they sometimes don't understand the value of slow-burning media rels or of the value/influence of online content. #commschat 

8:26 pm   elissapr : @NotFromBolton Yes! Researching pitch targets is the key to success; pick up the phoneand get to know journos & their beats. #CommsChat 

8:26 pm 

paulfabretti: @ jangles not entirely - the person doing the research. They miss the mark on what makesyou tick, whomever sends it gets it wrong #commschat 

8:26 pm   amandacomms: @Dan_Martin that should be just part of good practice knowing your audience and theaudience of any publication etc #commschat 

8:26 pm   SaveGWave: RT @LitmanLive: @ jangles @markpinsent Google Wave would be perfect for this. Moreprivate real time chat. #Commschat itself? #savegooglewave 

8:26 pm   LizzHarmon: @elissapr  Very difficult to devote in small shop, though I totally agree it's necessary.#commschat 

8:26 pm   SaveGWave: RT @ jangles: @LitmanLive Google Wave is in imminent demise though...#commschat#savegooglewave 

8:27 pm   patrickjpr : RT @ jangles: If I summarize what I'm seeing it's this: responsibility for spam lies with thesender. Fair assessment? #commschat >>Yes

8:27 pm   NotFromBolton: Absolutely the definition of a weed is a plant in the wrong place. Its all subjective.#commschat 

8:27 pm   Dan_Martin: @clairecelsi I've never gone that far but I regularly reply with to-the-point emails explainingwhy it's irrelevant #commschat 

8:27 pm   maxtb: @Dan_Martin The PRs who don't do that never will. They aren't listening to this chat. Theydon't read the complaining blogs. #CommsChat 

8:27 pm   elissapr : RT @sandrulee: agreed! RT @ jangles: If I summarize what Im seeing f/ tweets its

this:responsibility 4 spam lies with the sender.Fair assessment? #commschat 

8:27 pm   sandrulee: @elissapr  in Turkey interns usually prepare the media lists... ;) #commschat 

8:27 pm    jane63c: RT @ AdamVincenzini: @clairecelsi naming and shaming makes PR people more nervousabout engaging with media I cant endorse it ever #commschat 

8:27 pm   CarliR6: @michael_taggart True - should be some sort of course for them :-) but then again neither do some PR profs ... #commschat 

8:27 pm    jangles: @paulfabretti doesn't it ultimately fall onto the person who clicks that send button?#commschat 

8:28 pm   Dan_Martin: @maxtb Why? #commschat 

8:28 pm   mazherabidi: You would think though that if a journo isn't responding, the PR should figure out why...

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#commschat 

8:28 pm   LizzHarmon: @elissapr  May be easy for one who targets only one topic. More difficult when you'repitching 8-10 daily. #commschat 

8:28 pm   elissapr : @LizzHarmon So true! maybe outsource with freelancer who will dedicate agreed upon

hours for list maintenance #CommsChat 

8:28 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: If I summarize what I'm seeing from tweets it's this: responsibility for spam lieswith the sender. Fair assessment? #commschat 

8:28 pm   CarliR6: @mazherabidi depends how many they are sending it out to... #commschat 

8:28 pm   NotFromBolton: @elissapr   Absolutely, take them out for a coffee, lunch, beer what ever get to know themfirst ;) #commschat 

8:28 pm   amandacomms: @mazherabidi totally agree #commschat 

8:29 pm   michael_taggart: @ jangles Click here for the ultimate erectile dysfunction cure - er, just joking. #commschat 

8:29 pm 

elissapr : @sandrulee I have a feeling that it's interns everywhere who are relegated the media listmaintenance job!! #CommsChat 

8:29 pm   AdamFairclough: @ jane63c @adamvincenzino I'm looking beyond media/PR relations. What about acustomer starting a name and shame spammer tirade? #commschat 

8:29 pm   Dan_Martin: Beer helps! :o) RT @NotFromBolton: @elissapr  Take them out for a coffee, lunch, beer what ever get to know them #commschat 

8:29 pm   paulfabretti: @ jangles suppose if that person has responsibility for the account/client then yes.#commschat 

8:29 pm   sacevero: Build relationships not mailing lists #commschat (@suellewellyn) 

8:29 pm   elissapr : @NotFromBolton So true..creating relationships has become a lost art with many PRs..#CommsChat 

8:30 pm   brianreid: Really good (and super-important) discussion on #PR spam going on at #commschat. PRpros: don't send the same thing to more than 1 person.

8:30 pm    jane63c: @CommsChat @ jangles responsibilty also lies with the commisioners of work #commschat 

8:30 pm   CarliR6: @elissapr  haha I have done it.... :-) #commschat 

8:30 pm   paulfabretti: @sacevero and who is going to pay for that? The client? Do they understand why you needpaying to build a media list? #commschat 

8:30 pm   sandrulee: @elissapr  could be true :) but i can only speak in the name of Turkey ;) (for now)#commschat 

8:30 pm   elissapr : RT @brianreid: Really good (and super-important) discussion on #PR spam going on at#commschat. PR pros: don't send the same thing to more than 1 person.

8:30 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @elissapr : @NotFromBolton So true..creating relationships has become a lost art withmany PRs // not with the good ones #commschat 

8:30 pm    jane63c: @ AdamFairclough I think that is different but I need more info and to think about it#commschat 

8:30 pm   wadds:  #commschat relationship approach hasn't worked so far. Always open to abuse

8:30 pm    jangles: Ok, terrific discussion! We're about halfway through our time. Let's take a look at the CIPRspamming charter  http://is.gd/gQody #commschat 

8:31 pm   elissapr : @Dan_Martin @NotFromBolton LOL...beer helps everything! #CommsChat 

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8:31 pm   LizzHarmon: @elissapr  @NotFromBolton How many ppl to you work with? We work with hundreds. Outfor coffee, beer or lunch? #commschat 

8:31 pm   mazherabidi: They should understand! RT @paulfabretti : @sacevero The client? Do they understand whyyou need paying to build a media list? #commschat 

8:31 pm 

paulfabretti: @wadds it always will be when strangers meet and only one has a specific agenda#commschat 

8:31 pm    jangles: The CIPR charter is largely in response to the 'Inconvenient PR Truth' campaign (topic for next week). #commschat 

8:31 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @elissapr : @Dan_Martin @NotFromBolton LOL...beer helps everything! // Agreed ;)#commschat 

8:31 pm   AdamFairclough: Everyone seems to be looking at this in terms of PR/Journo relations. What aboutcustomers, or the general public? #commschat 

8:31 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: Ok, terrific discussion! We're halfway through our time. Let's look at CIPRspamming charter  http://is.gd/gQody #commschat 

8:32 pm   mazherabidi: Surely relationship is THE way forward? RT @wadds: #commschat relationship approachhasnt worked so far. Always open to abuse #commschat 

8:32 pm    jangles: The CIPR press release highlights 3 of the charter's directives... #commschat 

8:32 pm   SuButcher : rt @brianreid: Really good (super-important) discussion on #PR spam at #commschat. PRpros: don't send the same thing to more than 1 person.

8:32 pm   paulwooding1973: Surely the primary function of a press release nowadays is SEO. They are virtuallyredundant as a way to reach media #CommsChat 

8:32 pm   LizzHarmon: @ AdamFairclough We don't spam, but when I get it, I have no problem with the DELETEbutton. #commschat 

8:32 pm   clairecelsi: @ AdamVincenzini I've seen some relentless spam reporters have seen, even after warnings. Sometimes shaming is the last resort #commschat 

8:33 pm   Dan_Martin: @elissapr  @NotFromBolton On a serious point, it's all about building a one-on-onerelationship & a chat over beer helps do that #commschat 

8:33 pm    jane63c: CIPR spam charter sets a good standard, senior people should be more professional andtake responsibilty not just dish out blame #commschat 

8:33 pm   Dan_Martin: @paulwooding1973 I still use press releases #commschat 

8:34 pm   patrickjpr : Funny how in this debate spam is only seen one-way. I don't consider Response Sourcespam, yet mainly irrelevant to me #CommsChat 

8:34 pm   elissapr : @LizzHarmon @NotFromBolton understood, but recognize ur priorities among those upitch. Some are influencers and some are not. #CommsChat 

8:34 pm    jangles: 1) "PRs should invest time in researching the editorial scope and interests of a journo/blogger before approaching them." ... #commschat 

8:34 pm   wadds:  #commschat best practice relies on PR's to implement it. Lots do, lots don't

8:34 pm   NotFromBolton: @Dan_Martin  Absolutely, know like and trust are the way forward in any relationship.#commschat 

8:34 pm   sandrulee: Press release IS NOT dead :) #commschat 

8:34 pm 

CarliR6: @paulwooding1973 so how do you get informaton to the media? #commschat 

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8:34 pm   AdamVincenzini: @Dan_Martin @elissapr  @NotFromBolton or a chat over Twitter - perhaps more journo'sshould be involved in tonight's discussion? #commschat 

8:34 pm   paulfabretti: @Dan_Martin agreed, they TOTALLY have a place. Just because things have movedbeyond paper, doesn't mean paper is redundant! #commschat 

8:34 pm 

 jangles: Isn't that common sense? Yet it's clear too little of that behaviour happens. #commschat 

8:34 pm    jane63c: RT @Dan_Martin: @paulwooding1973 I still use press releases / should we have adiscussion on the death of the news release? #commschat 

8:34 pm   elissapr : @Dan_Martin @NotFromBolton  Agreed! Recognize & pinpoint the influencers & go fromthere. No need to talke all out for a round! #CommsChat 

8:35 pm   LizzHarmon: The CIPR charter is a good basic outline. We have to work together. We are all under pressure to produce. #commschat 

8:35 pm   amandacomms: @ jangles simple it is know your business before approaching people #commschat 

8:35 pm   Dan_Martin: @patrickjpr  Isn't that because of Response Source's categorisation system that it's irrelevant

to you? #commschat 

8:35 pm   AdParker : RT @ jane63c: RT @Dan_Martin: @paulwooding1973 I still use press releases / should wehave a discussion on the death of the news release? #commschat 

8:35 pm   LizzHarmon: RT @sandrulee: Press release IS NOT dead :) #commschat 

8:35 pm   pracademy: common sense is often not very common. #commschat 

8:35 pm   b33god: @ jgombita I skimmed it, will read in full later. True. I do that stuff all the time. And it workswell. It's an 80's hang up! #commschat 

8:35 pm   elissapr : Thanks for the great #CommsChat everyone...next meeting is up (it's 3:30 pm here) and I'mout! Thanks @ AdamVincenzini @EmilyCagle 

8:35 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles "PRs should invest time in researching the editorial scope & interests of a journo/blogger before approaching" ... #commschat 

8:35 pm   AdamVincenzini: @clairecelsi I hear you, I just think on-going constructive education / feedback sets a better tone #commschat 

8:35 pm    jangles: @amandacomms isn't it also know *their* business before approaching people?#commschat 

8:35 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: Isn't that common sense? Yet it's clear too little of that behaviour happens.#commschat 

8:36 pm   NotFromBolton: @elissapr  That's the way, targeted rather than the scatter-gun approach :) #commschat 

8:36 pm   amandacomms: @CarliR6 I am starting to do business with journalists through Twitter etc not about newsreleases #commschat 

8:36 pm   EbA: What's an acceptable level of spam. 5, 10 15 emails? I don't think PR spam will ever goaway #Commschat 

8:36 pm   elissapr : @CarliR6 Hey we've ALL done list maintenance! LOL! #CommsChat 

8:36 pm   maxtb: @Dan_Martin Put simply, they either get enough coverage to satisfy clients anyway or getfired. But I have a blunt fix... #commschat 

8:36 pm   lavapr : Completely agree. Just too many sent to the wrong people. RT @LizzHarmon: RT@sandrulee: Press release IS NOT dead :) #commschat 

8:36 pm   ppnc09: @pracademy common sense has much to do with familiarity. what's familiar to some=social

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norm=common sense #commschat 

8:36 pm   AdamFairclough: RT @amandacomms: @CarliR6 I am starting to do business with journalists through Twitter etc not about news releases #commschat 

8:37 pm   CarliR6: @elissapr  I enjoyed it haha but I asked questions, I don't think many other interns would....

#commschat 

8:37 pm   mazherabidi: Relationship right? RT @amandacomms: @CarliR6 starting to do business with journaliststhrough Twitter not about news releases #commschat 

8:37 pm    jangles: @EbA PR spam requires behaviour changes more than anything else before it will go away.#commschat 

8:37 pm   EmilyCagle: RT @lavapr : Completely agree. Just too many sent to the wrong people. RT @LizzHarmon: RT @sandrulee: Press release IS NOT dead :) #commschat 

8:37 pm   maxtb: @Dan_Martin My solution's origins here http://bit.ly/cNpKSr  and there's a draft followup withinput from @charlesarthur  to come. #commschat 

8:37 pm 

CarliR6: @amandacomms do you direct them to your website for more information? #commschat 

8:37 pm    jgombita: @b33god my point is that @avrilbenoit does communication for an NGO. Believe majority of "PR" spam you refer to is marketing PR #commschat 

8:37 pm   lavapr : The thing is too many PRs are reliant / trust out of date media databases. @EbA: I dontthink PR spam will ever go away #commschat 

8:38 pm   paulfabretti: @lavapr  yeah, using old-school techniques to apply to new-school classes #commschat 

8:38 pm   mazherabidi: This idea that anything mass sent is spam is wrong. If it's mass sent but sent to a good,targeted list & well written, not spam? #commschat 

8:38 pm   LizzHarmon: @elissapr  We have a varied client list, which means we know many different journalists. We

have many, many relationships. #commschat 

8:38 pm   elissapr : @CarliR6 and that's what made u so fabulous!! #CommsChat 

8:38 pm   sacevero: @paulfabretti Having relationships with a few influencers is worth MUCH more than"spraying and praying" a list of thousands. #commschat 

8:38 pm   sandrulee: I think that there should be a system that generates categories through tags on the posts.Does that exist yet? #commschat 

8:39 pm    jangles: Getting "Post failed: code 403" now in TweetChat. Back soon I hope. #CommsChat. 

8:39 pm    jane63c: glad to see news release is not dead :) now we have to stop in house teams being requiredto send out Xno per day by non PR boss #commschat 

8:39 pm   CarliR6: @elissapr  :-) awww thanks haha #commschat 

8:39 pm   maxtb: @Dan_Martin But although it's somewhat against the spirit of things, squeezing into 140char bursts doesn't appeal today. #commschat 

8:39 pm   NotFromBolton: Spam in general will never go away regardless of business type. #commschat 

8:39 pm   paulfabretti: @sacevero totally agree, but who is going to pay for that? You? The client? #commschat 

8:40 pm    jangles: 2) "confusing, misleading, inaccurate or non-targeted emails may damage the reputations of the practitioner, ..." #commschat 

8:40 pm   Dan_Martin: @patrickjpr  One of worst things about using Response Source requests is when I tick 'email'for preferred content & PRs call! #commschat 

8:40 pm   amandacomms: @CarliR6 usually ends with a phone call for specifics, but website can be a back up

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#commschat 

8:40 pm    jangles: cont'd: "...the employer and the client." Do you agree? #commschat 

8:40 pm   LizzHarmon: @sacevero That's tough when your client list is diverse. Have to know many journos acrossmany beats. #commschat 

8:40 pm   EbA: @ jangles True. Problem is behavioural change is difficult to install across an industry. Agreewith @maxtb. Need tech solution #Commschat 

8:40 pm   SuButcher : @ jangles presumably PRs should only approch a journalist if tgeir research indicatesinterest is likely #commschat 

8:41 pm   paulfabretti: RT @SuButcher : @ jangles presumably PRs should only approch a journalist if tgeir research indicates interest is likely #commschat 

8:41 pm   nickiannitti: Aren't we all in agreement?: Release as an SEO tool; personal, relevant pitching for anyhope of coverage. #commschat 

8:41 pm   lavapr : @paulfabretti Not sure I follow. release 2 trad media = fine as long as on target and useful.

Bloggers + social = diff approach #commschat 

8:41 pm   paulwooding1973: Just too much crap releases out there to rely on them. Tainted. 1-2-1 media sell in with abullet-pointed list of key points #CommsChat 

8:41 pm   clairecelsi: I think wire services and list building services perpetuate the spam. #commschat 

8:41 pm   CarliR6: @amandacomms Cool - its always interesting to hear of different ways - especially when Ihave only ever experience one :-) #commschat 

8:41 pm   mazherabidi: @ jangles  Agree totally. No one benefits, and in the end, work doesn't get done. Everyone'sinterest to get it right. #commschat 

8:41 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles "confusing, misleading, inaccurate or non-targeted emails may damage the

reputations of the practitioner, ..." #commschat 

8:41 pm   LizzHarmon: @paulfabretti Our lists our super targeted. Each has subcategories. #commschat 

8:41 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: cont'd: "...the employer and the client." Do you agree? #commschat 

8:41 pm   brianreid: @paulfabretti If a client isn't going to pay to build relationships, they're wasting what they*do* pay for. #commschat 

8:42 pm   sandrulee: @ jangles agree. If it's done once,I can oversee that,but if it continues2happen, hello, youcan find your releases in junk folder #commschat 

8:42 pm   darylwillcox: Enjoying the PR spam debate on #commschat - it's a surprisingly complex issue, and Ibelieve tight PR budgets are a contributing factor 

8:42 pm   Dan_Martin: @paulwooding1973 Just because lots are "crap" doesn't mean press releases don't work#commschat 

8:42 pm   CarliR6: @ jangles  And it's not like the discipline has the best reputation in the world already... :-)#commschat 

8:42 pm   sacevero: @LizzHarmon agreed. But a little research can make a world of a difference compared tonone. #commschat 

8:42 pm   paulwooding1973: Get a 400 word SEO release on the wires for Google juice and then specific targeted outreach doesn't need a release #CommsChat 

8:42 pm   LizzHarmon: @nickiannitti Our clients get coverage every week via press releases & media alerts. Media

call us. #commschat 

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8:42 pm   LizzHarmon: RT @Dan_Martin: @paulwooding1973 Just because lots are "crap" doesnt mean pressreleases dont work #commschat 

8:42 pm   amandacomms: @CarliR6 I have even managed to organise interviews with my big boss and the mediathrough Twitter - felt very modern #commschat 

8:42 pm 

sandrulee: haha RT @CarliR6: @ jangles  And its not like the discipline has the best reputation in theworld already... :-) #commschat 

8:43 pm   Dan_Martin: @patrickjpr  If it's irrelevant, it's spam #commschat 

8:43 pm   AdamVincenzini: @darylwillcox Daryl, I think you have a good point - clients want more for less, somethinghas to give #commschat 

8:43 pm    jangles: @darylwillcox tight budgets often equate to cutting corners to get things done with less.Tricky situations. #commschat 

8:43 pm   mazherabidi: @darylwillcox Tight PR budgets shouldn't excuse laziness though. Surely that ends upcosting more in long run. Repeated work? #commschat 

8:43 pm 

CarliR6: @amandacomms I bet :-) maybe a sign of things to come! :-) I think I would prefer thatway... #commschat 

8:43 pm   EmilyCagle: RT @darylwillcox Enjoying PR spam debate on #commschat [...] surprisingly complex issue& I believe tight PR budgets are contributing factor 

8:43 pm   paulwooding1973: I would love to know how many releases are downloaded from our clients' online pressrooms. I reckon it's in the 10's a month! #CommsChat 

8:43 pm   AdParker : RT @ jangles: @darylwillcox tight budgets often equate to cutting corners to get things donewith less. Tricky situations. #commschat 

8:43 pm    jane63c: RT @ AdamVincenzini: @darylwillcox Daryl, I think you have a good point - clients wantmore for less, something has to give #commschat 

8:44 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @Dan_Martin: @patrickjpr  If its irrelevant, its spam // Bingo relevance is subjectivethough surely? #commschat 

8:44 pm   AdamFairclough: Sums up this whole discussion nicely RT @Dan_Martin: @patrickjpr  If its irrelevant, its spam#commschat 

8:44 pm   amandacomms: @sandrulee @CarliR6 @ jangles at least not with the latest government! #commschat 

8:44 pm   KatieColbourne: RT @LizzHarmon: RT @Dan_Martin: @paulwooding1973 Just because lots are "crap"doesnt mean press releases dont work #commschat 

8:44 pm   lavapr : @darylwillcox Tight budgets aren't an excuse for not doing basic research and making surewhat is sent is of interest to receiver #commschat 

8:44 pm   LizzHarmon: @darylwillcox I agree, tight PR budgets ARE a contributing factor, as is the 24/7 news cycleof #social media. #commschat 

8:44 pm   Dan_Martin: RT @darylwillcox Enjoying PR spam debate on #commschat - surprisingly complex issue,tight PR budgets are a contributing factor #commschat 

8:45 pm    jangles: @mazherabidi now that's the first time I've heard the 'lazy' word tonight. Isn't laziness a bigpart of PR spam? #commschat 

8:45 pm   sandrulee: RT @lavapr : @darylwillcox Tight budgets arent an excuse4not doing basicresearch&making sure what is sent is of interest2receiver #commschat 

8:45 pm   paulfabretti: @Dan_Martin @darylwillcox really? Lack of budget an excuse for poor targeting and lazy

research?! #commschat #commschat 

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8:45 pm   darylwillcox: @mazherabidi Laziness is a separate issue, inexcusable but just one of many factors#commschat 

8:45 pm   patrickjpr : @Dan_Martin But it may have been relevant to you yesterday .. *some* people are too quickto label spam #CommsChat 

8:46 pm 

mazherabidi: @ jangles Someone was going to say it though I suppose...laziness is a big part thoughsurely. lack of research etc? #commschat 

8:46 pm   CarliR6: @ jangles @mazherabidi - I think laziness is the biggest part of SPAM - its just easier tosend it to a long list and not update #commschat 

8:46 pm    jangles: Into the final stretch, 15 minutes left for our discussion... #commschat 

8:46 pm   paulfabretti: @mazherabidi totally agree maz. You can be smart with your time and still do something of value #commschat 

8:46 pm   LizzHarmon: @ jangles I disagree about lazy. I think it's a time issue. Takes a lot of time to do research.Not an excuse, just a factor #commschat 

8:46 pm 

paulwooding1973: The press release carries too much baggage. Media automatically cynical. Formatencourages complexity and waffle. #CommsChat 

8:46 pm   CarliR6: @darylwillcox what else would you blame it on? #commschat 

8:46 pm   darylwillcox: @ jangles Yes, if an agency is only billing a couple of days a month they can't spend all thattime cleaning lists #commschat 

8:47 pm   AdamFairclough: While other methods are available, press releases are still relevant and only as 'crap' as theperson who writes and sends them #commschat 

8:47 pm   lavapr : @ jangles Lazy + too much reliance on media dbases x poor relationships + lack of mediaknowledge = spam = damaged relationship #commschat 

8:47 pm 

Dan_Martin: @patrickjpr  For news-driven publications perhaps but that's not the case for all publications.#commschat 

8:47 pm   mazherabidi: Or in the future RT @patrickjpr : @Dan_Martin But it may have been relevant to youyesterday .. *some* too quick to label spam #commschat 

8:47 pm   CarliR6: @paulwooding1973 The format I have been taught at Uni doesn't..... #commschat 

8:48 pm   paulfabretti: @ jangles I's like to put a question out there about what criteria PR's use to select the luckyblogger? Is it sound/accurate? #commschat 

8:48 pm   EbA: Tight budgets is an issue but rather than cut corners we should work harder to prove our worth ie better reporting #Commschat 

8:48 pm 

LizzHarmon: Clients like to see press releases. Admit it. #commschat 

8:48 pm    jangles: Seems to me that much of the comment on behaviours suggests we have a huge trainingmountain to climb. Agree? #commschat 

8:48 pm    jane63c: @CarliR6 hoorah! #commschat 

8:48 pm   Dan_Martin: @CarliR6 What format is that? #commschat 

8:48 pm   paulwooding1973: @CarliR6 will a client let you use it though? That's the rub #CommsChat 

8:48 pm   patrickjpr : @paulwooding1973 agree that a press release is a blunt tool - often too blunt #commschat 

8:48 pm   SuButcher : @paulfabretti thanks for RT - I see this charter embraces the concept of "Pull Marketing"that Web2.0 allows - do you agree? #commschat 

8:48 pm    jangles: Should we as practitioners not be practising, well, best practice? PR spam is certainly not

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that. #commschat 

8:49 pm   clairecelsi: Agencies need to hire an intern to scrub their lists before pitches are sent. #commschat 

8:49 pm   clairecelsi: RT @ jangles: Seems to me that much of the comment on behaviours suggests we have ahuge training mountain to climb. Agree? #commschat 

8:49 pm   amandacomms: @LizzHarmon surely they would rather see results than press releases? #commschat 

8:49 pm   AdParker : RT @ jangles: Should we as practitioners not be practising, well, best practice? PR spam iscertainly not that. #commschat 

8:49 pm   patrickjpr : @Dan_Martin or for all pitches - I agree that some is definitely spam - just not all#CommsChat 

8:49 pm   CarliR6: @Dan_Martin Has to be concise, include all main points, possibly a quote and no waffle :-)with bullet points and contact details #commschat 

8:49 pm   lavapr : @ jangles  Absolutely. Media (trad + new) is vital. #commschat 

8:49 pm 

 jane63c: @Jangles - how much do PR agencies spend on training/CPD compared to sevicing clients- or is it the client needs trainin g? #commschat 

8:49 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: Seems to me that much of the comment on behaviours suggests we have ahuge training mountain to climb. Agree? #commschat 

8:49 pm   sandrulee: @clairecelsi yes, but that shouldn't be the only job of that intern... #commschat 

8:49 pm   pracademy: @ jangles absolutely #commschat 

8:49 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: Should we as practitioners not be practising, well, best practice? PR spam iscertainly not that. #commschat 

8:50 pm   mazherabidi: PS CLIENTS also have responsibility. Check your PR's reputation. Employ good ones. Badones will go out of business soon enough. #commschat 

8:50 pm   paulfabretti: @ jangles isn't the whole point though that MOST PR's just have no idea what makessomeone influential? #commschat 

8:50 pm   Dan_Martin: @CarliR6  And don't forget relevant :o) #commschat 

8:50 pm   CarliR6: @paulwooding1973 it is extremely similar to the ones I have been using at my placement :-)so I'd say clients would. #commschat 

8:50 pm    jangles: @ jane63c yes, the client too. #commschat 

8:50 pm   clairecelsi: @LizzHarmon Clients need to be educated too. That is half the problem. To get thebusiness we sometimes cow-tow & do wrong thing. #commschat 

8:50 pm   CarliR6: @mazherabidi even quicker in the recession ;-) #commschat 

8:50 pm   brianreid: Agree! RT @ jangles: Seems to me that much of the comment on behaviours suggests wehave a huge training mountain to climb. Agree? #commschat 

8:50 pm   paulfabretti: @SuButcher  depends I think - there is a still totally a place for push marketing as long as thereasoning is sound and relevant #commschat 

8:51 pm   paulwooding1973: A unicycle still works means of transport is how I view press releases We need to rethink for age where press is outdated term. #CommsChat 

8:51 pm   CarliR6: @Dan_Martin but of course Dan - I wouldn't dream of anything else! :-) especially after thismaster class haha #commschat 

8:51 pm    jangles: Agencies and other organizations in which PRs work have prime responsibility to ensureemployees know what to do. Agree? #commschat 

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8:51 pm    jane63c: @ jangles brave one and it'll cost! #commschat 

8:51 pm   Dan_Martin: @CarliR6 Right answer! :o) #commschat 

8:51 pm   kevupnorth: RT @ jangles: 1) "PRs should invest time in researching the editorial scope and interests of a journo/blogger before approaching them." ... #commschat 

8:51 pm   lavapr : @ jane63c "spend" isn't everything. What is taught is the important thing. Learning on job: bymistakes + best practice r valuable #commschat 

8:51 pm   CarliR6: @paulwooding1973 plus would they mind if they were getting results? #commschat 

8:51 pm   paulfabretti: @brianreid kinda agree with that but it is all about common sense using good PR skills.#commschat 

8:51 pm   LizzHarmon: @paulfabretti I sure hope PRs know what makes journos relevant. #commschat 

8:52 pm    jane63c: @lavapr  great answer #commschat 

8:52 pm   clairecelsi: @sandrulee Of course not! :~) #commschat 

8:52 pm   michael_taggart: Spamming is a default behaviour. So education (if the answer) will be an unending task asppl move on and new ppl arrive. #commschat 

8:52 pm    jane63c: RT @lavapr : @ jane63c "spend" isnt everything. What taught the imp.thing. Learning on job:by mistakes + best practice r valuable #commschat 

8:52 pm   LizzHarmon: @clairecelsi I can't tell you how many clients want to see releases in our pitches.#commschat 

8:53 pm   paulwooding1973: @CarliR6 that's great, perhaps press release will adapt. Personally skeptical, too manyEmperor's New Clothes #CommsChat 

8:53 pm   darylwillcox: @lavapr  I think media databases (FeaturesExec included) have a role to play in the solutionas much as being part of the problem #commschat 

8:53 pm   sandrulee: @clairecelsi  just making sure. ;) because it can surely take the whole internship period for some! (i've seen that happening) #commschat 

8:53 pm   AdamFairclough: @ jgombita Oh yes, I've been there many times, which is why I'm crap at PR. But hey, we'reall still learning! #commschat 

8:53 pm    jangles: The PRSA has a great take on this complex issue... #commschat 

8:53 pm   JeremySinger1: Careful & targeted pitching often results in better editorial than a scatter gun approach aidedby paid for software like Vocus! #commschat 

8:54 pm   clairecelsi: @ AdamVincenzini Totally agree. #commschat 

8:54 pm   paulfabretti: EVERY public interaction on behalf of a client is a potential reputation changer. #commschat 

8:54 pm   CarliR6: @paulwooding1973 I'm still at the rose tinted stage to a certain extent :-) my enthusiasm willspread with me though haha #commschat 

8:54 pm   Dan_Martin: @darylwillcox @lavapr  They have a big role. They must be kept up to date & categorisationmust be better #commschat 

8:54 pm   sharonmostyn: RT @michael_taggart: Spamming is a default behaviour. So edu (if answer) will be anunending task as ppl move on & new ppl arrive #commschat 

8:54 pm   SuButcher : learning a lot about current PR issues at #commschat 

8:54 pm    jangles: "The best practices for media relations presented in the [CIPR] Media Spamming Charter,

..." #commschat 

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8:54 pm   sacevero: RT @ jangles: "PRs should invest time in researching the editorial scope/interests of a journo/blogger before approaching them." #commschat 

8:54 pm   LizzHarmon: If what you're doing works, keep it up. If not, change it. #commschat 

8:54 pm   lavapr : @darylwillcox  Agree but PRs should never 100% rely on dbases. Things change so quickly.

Relationships need personal contact. #commschat 

8:54 pm   clairecelsi: @sandrulee  Anyone who has ever interned for me will tell you that I believe in giving themlots of responsibility! #commschat 

8:54 pm   CarliR6: @paulfabretti indeed - not just what you say - but how you say it :-) #commschat 

8:54 pm   KatieColbourne: RT @Dan_Martin: @patrickjpr  If it's irrelevant, it's spam #commschat 

8:54 pm    jangles: "...along with PRSA?s prof development seminars on media relations and agency-specificeducation sessions for employees,..." #commschat 

8:55 pm   amandacomms: @paulfabretti completely agree, everything you say and do can impact on reputation#commschat 

8:55 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @LizzHarmon: If what youre doing works, keep it up. If not, change it. // Absolutely :)#commschat 

8:55 pm    jangles: "...must be taken seriously by individuals and their employers and instituted throughout their work. ..." #commschat 

8:55 pm   sandrulee: @clairecelsi great :) may i intern for you too? :) #commschat 

8:55 pm    jangles: "Anything short of this will diminish our efforts to offer strategic and valuable counsel toclients." #commschat 

8:55 pm   paulfabretti: @amandacomms which means that NO-ONE client or agency-side should be allowed tospeak without media understanding #commschat 

8:55 pm    jgombita: @ AdamFairclough but your words were: "only as 'crap' as the person who writes and sendsthem...." #commschat 

8:55 pm   pracademy: it's about professionalism...that means research and taking a strategic approach with clear objectives. #commschat 

8:55 pm   Dan_Martin: @CarliR6  And your enthusiasm is a very good thing! #commschat 

8:55 pm    jangles: That last sentence is the key one, would you agree? #commschat 

8:55 pm   clairecelsi: From what i can tell, news releases are really only helpful to beat reporters who arefollowing a certain subject. #commschat 

8:55 pm    jane63c: gotta go guys, thanks @ jangles @emilycagle@adamvincenzeni chat next week#commschat 

8:55 pm   carriefweir : RT @Dan_Martin: @patrickjpr  If it's irrelevant, it's spam #commschat 

8:55 pm   sandrulee: RT @CarliR6: @paulfabretti indeed - not just what you say - but how you say it :-)#commschat 

8:56 pm   Dan_Martin: RT @LizzHarmon: If what youre doing works, keep it up. If not, change it. #commschat 

8:56 pm   LizzHarmon: Same here! RT @clairecelsi: @sandrulee  Anyone who has ever interned for me will tell youI give them lots of responsibility! #commschat 

8:56 pm   CarliR6: @paulfabretti and training haha :-) #commschat 

8:56 pm   SuButcher : RT @paulfabretti: EVERY public interaction on behalf of a client is a potential reputationchanger. #commschat 

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8:56 pm   paulwooding1973: Social Media Releases, seen 1 in 15 years of doing this job, supposed to be next big thing.Proof that release concept is flawed? #CommsChat 

8:56 pm   CarliR6: @Dan_Martin thank you :-) #commschat 

8:56 pm   lavapr : @sacevero: researching the editorial scope/interests of a journo/blogger - this is vital + part

of contact/relationship building #commschat 

8:56 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: "The best practices for media relations presented in the [CIPR] MediaSpamming Charter, ..." #commschat 

8:56 pm   paulfabretti: @CarliR6 totally #commschat 

8:56 pm    jangles: Ok, probably time to start concluding this wide and varied discussion. So much going on!#commschat 

8:57 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles "along with PRSA?s prof development seminars on media relations andagency-specific education sessions for employees" #commschat 

8:57 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: "...must be taken seriously by individuals and their employers and instituted

throughout their work. ..." #commschat 

8:57 pm   CommsChat: RT @ jangles: "Anything short of this will diminish our efforts to offer strategic and valuablecounsel to clients." #commschat 

8:57 pm   mazherabidi: This. RT @paulfabretti @amandacomms NO-ONE client or agency-side should be allowedto speak without media understanding #commschat 

8:57 pm   Dan_Martin: @clairecelsi Releases are relevant to whatever the media outlet that covers the subject in it#commschat 

8:57 pm    jangles: Keeping tabs on all the tweets is tricky :) Thank goodness there's a transcript later.#commschat 

8:57 pm 

CommsChat: RT @ jangles: That last sentence is the key one, would you agree? #commschat 

8:57 pm   coachclaire: RT @Dan_Martin: RT @LizzHarmon: If what youre doing works, keep it up. If not, change it.#commschat 

8:57 pm   LizzHarmon: @ jangles This has been quite valuable. Thank you for facilitating today. # commschat 

8:58 pm   AdamFairclough: The way I see it is that releases are fine for media relations, but PR is about relations with awide group of people... #commschat 

8:58 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @CommsChat: RT @ jangles: That last sentence is the key one, would you agree? //The irony ;) #commschat 

8:58 pm    jangles: @LizzHarmon thanks, Lizz, glad you took part and found it useful. #commschat 

8:58 pm   michael_taggart: @ jangles Really enjoyed tonight's #commschat - thanks for chairing :) #commschat 

8:58 pm   CarliR6: @ jangles Thanks for being a great mod :-) been awesome, as usual @CommsChat :-)#commschat 

8:58 pm    jangles: Finally, what can we do, collectively and individually, to promote best practice? #commschat 

8:59 pm   AdamFairclough: ... and I'm not great with press releases as a tool. I prefer giving presentations, face-to-faceengagement and interaction #commschat 

8:59 pm   CarliR6: @ jangles Lead by example :-) #commschat 

8:59 pm   NotFromBolton: RT @ jangles: Finally, what can we do, collectively and individually, to promote bestpractice? // Ignore the bad... #commschat 

8:59 pm    jangles: @michael_taggart yw, thanks. #commschat 

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8:59 pm   LizzHarmon: All relationships are important, for you AND your client(s). Cultivating them with media is thecornerstone of our business. #commschat 

9:00 pm   mazherabidi: Communicate with and learn from everyone. RT @ jangles: What can we do, collectively andindividually, to promote best practice? #commschat 

9:00 pm 

CarliR6: Lead by example :-) #commschat 

9:00 pm   paulfabretti: @ jangles agree criteria by which a blogger can be appropriately evaluated and approached#commschat 

9:00 pm    jangles: @CarliR6 thanks for coming! #commschat 

9:00 pm   amandacomms: @ jangles another great discussion for a monday night thanks #commschat 

9:00 pm   mazherabidi: @ AdamFairclough In other words relationships. It's where it's at. #commschat 

9:00 pm   Dan_Martin: @ jangles Don't forget the inverted pyramid ;o) #commschat 

9:00 pm   pracademy: @ jangles emphasise benefits of careful targeting over spamming #commschat 

9:00 pm   sacevero: @lavapr   Agreed, times 10. #commschat 

9:00 pm    jangles: RT @NotFromBolton: RT @ jangles: Finally, what can we do, [...] to promote best practice?// Ignore the bad... <-Lol #commschat 

9:00 pm   sandrulee: RT @ jangles: Finally, what can we do, collectively and individually, to promote bestpractice?/educate, blog, do PR on it :) #commschat 

9:01 pm   lavapr : @ jangles Practice what we preach. Target messages. Present in the correct manner to rightpeople. Build relationships where poss. #commschat 

9:01 pm   Dan_Martin: @darylwillcox @lavapr  Not sure how you'd do that #commschat 

9:01 pm   darylwillcox: RT @lavapr  PRs should never 100% rely on dbases. Things change so quickly.

Relationships need personal contact. #commschat <- agreed

9:01 pm    jangles: @pracademy good one. #commschat 

9:01 pm   clairecelsi: RT @MarkRaganCEO 5 things PR people should eliminate NOW. Do youagree? http://bit.ly/cLH8md#Commschat 

9:01 pm    jangles: @lavapr  great thoughts, thanks! #commschat 

9:01 pm   mazherabidi: And do the basics properly. Don't take shortcuts... #commschat 

9:01 pm   CarliR6: @mazherabidi haha beautifully put! #commschat 

9:02 pm   AdamFairclough: @mazherabidi Correct, the thing with this week's chat is that it's been limited to PR/journo

relations - there are other publics! #commschat 

9:02 pm   CommsChat: It's 9pm, guys. That was a helluva session. BIG thanks to our host @ jangles and indeed toall who took part. Transcript up soon. #CommsChat 

9:03 pm    jangles: I think we're out of time now. Terrific chats, thanks everyone, look forward to digesting thetyranbscript :) See you next time. #commschat 

9:03 pm   mazherabidi: @ AdamFairclough True that. But 1 hour and 140 chars is never enough!! #commschat 

9:03 pm   pracademy: thanks guys great discussion #commschat 

9:03 pm   Dan_Martin: @ jangles Nice work! Another great #commschat 

9:03 pm 

paulfabretti: Thanks folks - see you next Monday #commschat 

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9:03 pm   nickiannitti: @LizzHarmon media calls still come, but it depends on the size of the media hits you'regunning for. And the brand #commschat 

9:04 pm   cquigs: RT @mazherabidi: Communicate with and learn from everyone. RT @ jangles: What can wedo, collectively and individually, to promote best practice? #commschat 

9:04 pm 

SuButcher : @ jangles I think you should reward best practice and publicise it, with evidence of why andhow it is more successfiul #commschat 

9:04 pm    jangles: Wow, that was quite a session! #CommsChat