complete guide_ proper shimming - filipino airsoft (fas) - forum

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Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

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May 24th, 2011, 13:34

Majinbu Airsofter

Join Date: Apr 2008Location: in your dreams!Posts: 3,116

Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

Complete Guide: Proper ShimmingBy majinbu

SHIMMING OBJECTIVES

Pinion-Bevel Gears – this is the most important objective: to eliminate noise that is coming from these gears beyond the adjustmentof the motor height. Failure to properly set the mating between pinion and bevel gears makes noise that (not only eerie to the earsbut) is found to cause damages to gears, cause the overheating of motor, overheating wires, excessive power lose due to stress, andetc.

Over-all GearSet Alignment – this is what most has taken for granted: the entire gearset must seat on the gearbox in the mostcentered as possible. However, this crucial alignment is dependent on the mating of the pinion and the bevel gears – the rest will followby setting a hairline gap in between the faces of each gears.

Cut-off Lever and Tappet Plate – professional shimming is done with the extreme consideration of the cut-off lever and the tappetplate. When cut-off lever is taken for granted during shimming, chances are that your semi-shooting mode will no longer function, ifnot problematic; when tappet plate is taken for granted, chances are that you are not giving the tappet plate enough room to playbeside the sector gear which will cause the plate to stack-up and not move as the cycle goes.

Gears has Faces – have you noticed some gear faces with scratches, often at spur gear? The gunsmith failed to give enough roombetween the face of the sector and spur gears; this problem and inconsideration results to unexplained noise heard from outside.Therefore during shimming, another noteworthy objective is to ensure that the faces of the gears have enough hairline space in

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Complete Guide: Proper Shimming - Filipino Airsoft (FAS) - Forum http://www.filairsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106134

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between to avoid the discomfort it may cause later on.

Wobbling – this is the most common answer as to why shimming is important and yet it is at the least of our priority – reading againthe complications of the above objectives makes you well informed now as to why shimming is important, right? Well, of course it isimportant to eliminate wobbling since it gives more stress to each gears unevenly that results to breakage. This is the lateral setting ofgears to ensure that gearset (or a gear) will not move left and right during operation/cycle. When the gears used is helical gearsets,this is the most important thing to consider though – as helical gearsets has slanted teeth that perfect shimming is necessary in orderto attain the right angle of mating – not only the mating itself – but the angle of mating for each gears.

BASIC REQUIREMENTS

- be able to assemble/disassemble gearbox for more than a dozen times,- be able to indentify parts and its purpose,- has the needed tools for the task,

INITIAL STAGE

- gearbox is currently open,- all the internal parts are removed except for the switch assembly,

IDENTIFICATION OF PARTS

Bevel Gear (BeG) is the gear that contacts with the pinion gear on the motor, the lowest gear from the main spring, the smallest

gear, and the most critical gear among your set of gears;

Spur Gear (SpG) is the biggest gear, located in the middle, the first to be set, and is the torque-transfer gear;

Sector Gear (SeG) is the top-most gear, the gear the contacts with the piston body, yaw pin and the tappet plate, and is the

“tweak-able” among the gears;

Shims (S) there are different kinds of shims in terms of its diameter and thickness (0.1, 0.2... and small and large in diameter)

*all the three gears combined (bevel, spur and sector gears) are called gear sets.

SOME IMPORTANT NOTES

Here are some considerations prior to re-shimming,

- check the fittings of the gearbox itself – some worn-out/used gearbox has a a bulged wall – this creates problems as to the thicknessof shims to use and the fitting itself,

- use the correct gearset ratio for the spring to use – shimming cannot improve stress handling of the spring – it only improve andextend internal parts lifespan by having smooth operation during cycle,

- some gearsets are not bolt-on to some gearbox brand – check whether the SeG is hitting the switch stopper post in the gearbox,check whether the SpG is hitting the reinforced gearbox wall, check whether the BeG is hitting the anti-reverse latch (“ARL” from thistime on),

- check whether the gears (in its axle) are not wobbling prior to shimming – re-shimming with a wobbling gear/s is hopeless,

- check that all the bushings (or bearing bushings) are not rotating to its gearbox hole – this will further create wobbling and damagesto the gearbox itself when taken for granted – check also that axles and its assigned bushings are fitted well, not too tight – not towobbling,

- make sure that prior to re-shimming, you have all the available shim thickness,

- make sure that you have the proper lubricants so that after re-shimming, your gears are lubricated to further smooth operation,

- remove/clean previous lubricants found anywhere in the gearbox – lubricants reside anywhere within that is NOT helping in thelubrication poses danger to be accidentally clutter the switch assembly that may cause electrical problems,

PROPER SHIMMING CHECK (PSC)

This is how you will check during the entire process. Every time that “PCS” is mentioned, do all these steps,

a. close the gearbox,

b. check the “play” of the axle of the gear being shimmed through the bushing outside, side by side – make sure that there is “no play”which is the wobble being eliminated in shimming – add shims when needed – choose the correct thickness, as required,

c. insert your finger inside the gearbox (for sector and spur gears only) to test whether the gear is freely rotating inside – use a smallprecision tool to test for the free-rotation of the bevel gear,

d. screw the gearbox then do the same test (test a to c) – tight it like you are tightening the screws the final time,

e. consider the free-rotation of each gear that you are checking – too tight will cause overheating of electrical parts, as the motor isdriving a relatively sober setting of gears – too tight!


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f. when using bearing/bushings, allow 0.1mm play just to ensure that there are no lateral force being exerted towards the bearingsitself – failure to consider this will result to bearing failure,

That is how the “PSC” is done from here on,

LET’S START!

Step #1 - Setting of Bevel Gear (checking of the bevel and pinion gears’ mating)

The main objective hear is to set the bevel gear properly mated with the pinion gear – that’s shimming the right axle before the leftaxle is considered.

- set the bevel gear on the right side of the gearbox and place the motor,- check the pinion gear and bevel gears’ mating whether you can still add shims (on the right) while allowing space for the pinion gearto rotate without over-tightening it by way of the bevel gear’s teeth (this creates the noise!),- add shim when the mating of the teeth is still has room that the pinion gear is too “loose” – this will also save time working on theother side,

Now that you have set the perfect mating of the bevel and pinion gears by knowing the right thickness of shims of the right axle of thebevel gear, you can now shim the left axle of the bevel gear.

- place a shim on the left side (this time just to check the wobble) – do the PSC,- when there is no “side to side” wobble in doing the PSC, check that the ARL has enough to bite in the bevel gear’s anti reverse teeth– you may consider putting shims on the ARL just to adjust its height and get the most bite on the bevel gear’s teeth – I have done thisARL shimming once in my DBOYS gearbox before: and you need to do that whenever its necessary (only),

- ensure that you have actually done the PSC procedure correctly,

Now that your bevel gear is properly set by putting into consideration the mating of the pinion and bevel gears, plus the height of theARL, you may now focus on the spur gear shimming.

Step #2 - Setting of Spur Gear (checking of spur gear height)

The main purpose here is to properly check that the teeth of the spur gear is in perfect alignment with that of the bevel gear’s teeth –since bevel gear’s height is set in consideration to the mating of the pinion gear, the height now is the main focus to mate with that ofthe spur gear.

- put a shim on the left axle of the spur gear then check the teeth alignment to that of the bevel gear – make sure that the teeth of thespur and bevel gears does mated properly – failure to consider this results to chipping off/breakage of bevel and spur gears teeth aftera short period of use,

- shim now the right axle of the spur gear and do the PSC,

- ensure that you have actually done the PSC procedure correctly,

- check again that the spur gear will rotate freely along with the bevel gear set,

- install the ARL and check whether the spur gear is hitting the surface of the ARL – trim the ARL’s side when necessary but not to thepoint that the ARL is loosing its grip on its axle.

Step #3 - Setting of Sector Gear (checking for many things here!)

The main purpose for setting the sector gear are (1) the faces in between spur and sector gears, (2) the perfect alignment and themating of sector and spur gear’s teeth, (3) the consideration of the cut-off lever to ensure its function, and (4) the space to provide forthe tappet plate’s “play” – all these crucial and important points must all be considered during this 3rd step.

- put shim in the left axle of the sector gear, check the hairline space to provide between face of spur and sector gears,- once the space is now given by adjusting the shim/s that provides the height, check the mating of the teeth between spur and sectorgears also – the mating should be carefully set to minimize the height (and shims) in this left axle since the consideration for thecut-off lever is being watched – do the PSC,

- shim now the right axle of the sector gear – do the PSC,- ensure that you have actually done the PSC procedure correctly,

- check again that the sector gear will rotate freely along with the bevel and spur gears – check it more in counter-clockwise since thecycle is done that way,

Step #4 – Installing back the Internal Parts

After setting all the needed shims, ensuring all the gaps (“faces”), and etc., carefully remove all the gears with there shims on – DONOT LET A SHIM ASTRAY FROM ITS ORIGINAL AXLE SIDE OR ELSE YOU WILL REPEAT THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF SHIMMING AGAIN –and re-assemble the gearbox as usual.

* do not make too tight on the screw in the center just above the trigger – it often causes the stack-up of the switch inside.

CHECKS

Once the gearbox is assembled back, try to test before even trying to completely assemble all the airsoft gun.

In version 2 gearbox, you may install the grip, motor and motor plate to make a quick test.


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In version 3 and other gearbox versions, you can easily test while on the process of assembling back the motor cage, just beforeputting back the entire gun.

Make a minute adjustment on the motor height adjustment to achieve the perfect mating of pinion and bevel gears. If there is a noisedespite the adjustment, check the angle of the motor installed whether it is not in its proper angle. And if there is still noise heard,re-do the shimming process by shifting a 0.1mm shim from the right of the axle (of the bevel gear) to the left axle side – this gives asmall adjustment in order to give space on the mating of the pinion-bevel gears.

COMMON PROBLEMS AFTER WRONG SHIMMING

Overheating Motor/Battery/Wiring – this is caused by a very tight shimming done in one of all of the gears during shimming.Please consider the tightness of the actual completion of the gearbox when the screws are tightened well. So, give a small allowance inanticipation of this problem. The mating of bevel-pinion gears can also be an issue why overheating (and noise) is occurring.

Noisy Gears – there a lots of causes as to why gears are noisy after shimming, (1) when the gap between faces of gears are not givenenough space to avoid hitting the entire surface, (2) when the bevel gear is set too tight to mate with the pinion gear, (3) when thespur gear is actually hitting the anti-reverse latch or the side of the reinforced thick walls of the gearbox, (4) when the sector gear isactually hitting the switch stopper post in the gearbox, (5) or simply when the motor height adjustment is wrongly done.

None Operation – the shimming is tremendously tight that the motor is not capable to drive a unmovable gearset that was poorlyshimmed – consider re-shimming in a very conservative (not too aggressive) manner. IMMEDIETELY STOP OPERATION AND FIX THEPROBLEM – or, you may melt and/or burn electrical wires/switch contacts, your motor, and bloat your precious battery pack.

Mis-feeding – yes it is true, mis-feeding may occur when there is something wrong during shimming – it is specifically cause by tootightened right axle side of the sector gear that the tappet plate is sandwiched between the sector gear and the gearbox itself – ithappened to me once – to my great disbelief!

DISCLAIMER

The author has no liabilities whatsoever to the damages or injuries that may occur - work at your own risk please!

Hope that helps..!

Luv,majinbu__________________follow me @ Majinbu's Review

Last edited by Majinbu; May 24th, 2011 at 14:17. Reason: add/edit info

The following 15 users say, "I like" or "Thank You" to Majinbu for this useful post:

BigBrd, bogaretz, Ch8, daren, David_95, doodzzz_day, estong182, eURIEL, jox, nailman, Padawan, PELOT, soothsayer1991, TOOLBOX,wolfie

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May 24th, 2011, 14:15

Padawan Airsofter

Join Date: Jan 2011Location: Cubao, Q.C.Posts: 167

Re: Complete Guide: Proper Shimming

Thank you sir majinbu for the share/review on proper shimming this will give a heads up for aspiring airsofters like me...__________________“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”


4 of 8 3/10/2012 1:43 AM

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May 24th, 2011, 15:33

wolfie FAS Veteran

Join Date: Aug 2007Location: Baguio CityPosts: 529


very useful post.+1 vote this to be sticky. __________________Baguio Airsoft Club, Inc.Good.Clean.Fun 2002

May 24th, 2011, 19:58

estong182 FTB Viewer

Join Date: Aug 2009Posts: 150


thank you so much sir majinbu, tanung ko lang kung panu ba dapat ung proper aoe ng spur gear at piston's 1st tooth, o anu ba dapat ialign muna? un bang sector chip na nakalapat sa tappet or ung 1st tooth ng spur and piston ang magkalapat bago isara ang gearbox?TIA__________________

May 24th, 2011, 22:13

skar Airsofter

Join Date: Jun 2010Location: Las PiñasPosts: 144


Thanks Sir Majinbu. This thread is very helpfull!

Originally Posted by wolfie very useful post.+1 vote this to be sticky.

+1 =)

May 24th, 2011, 22:14

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Yan si sir majinbu.... sir pautograph sa vest ko kapag nagkita tayo ulit ihihihihi ^^__________________

"Once a SEAL always a SEAL, still living the legacy of the Leathernecks...."

MP5 lover? ll Avoiding Scammer? ll Gunsmithing

May 25th, 2011, 12:20

Majinbu Airsofter

Join Date: Apr 2008Location: in your dreams!Posts: 3,116


Originally Posted by estong182 tanung ko lang kung panu ba dapat ung proper aoe ng spur gear at piston's 1st tooth, o anu ba dapat i align muna? un bang sectorchip na nakalapat sa tappet or ung 1st tooth ng spur and piston ang magkalapat bago isara ang gearbox?TIA

you are asking 2 different points sir Estong, (1)adjusting the angle of engagement (AoE) and, (2)setting the correct timing,..

kahit OT na dito since about shimming ito, sagutin ko ng brief ne sir..,

(1)setting AoE is making the 1st tooth of the sector gear hit the 1st tooth of the piston body (pb) in the most ideal way - ideal ishaving the most surface area between teeth on the initial impact just before the action of the pb take place - the objective is tominimize the stress that makes the pulling of the pb harder than when it is perfectly angeled - do that by inserting/shaving in betweenpb and pb head so you can achieve the horizontal location of the pb's teeth ideal for impact,

(2)setting the timing is,.. well, just draw an imaginary line connecting the 1st and last tooth of the sector gear,.. make that line parallelto the action of the pb - while the anti-reverse latch is locked - it means, hindi about sa pagka-lapat ang delayer/advancer mo sa tappetplate sir - by doing this, your gears will rotate and be back to its timing as per the ratio of the gearsets and the anti-reverse latch overand over again,..

Originally Posted by SEAL010 Yan si sir majinbu.... sir pautograph sa vest ko kapag nagkita tayo ulit ihihihihi ^^

OT:ako din sir magpapa-sign din sayo.. hehe..

__________________follow me @ Majinbu's Review

May 25th, 2011, 12:21

ProjectMayhem Airsofter

Join Date: Aug 2009Location: Pampanga/BaguioPosts: 2,635Blog Entries: 1


very useful sir.__________________

May 25th, 2011, 13:01


6 of 8 3/10/2012 1:43 AM

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estong182 FTB Viewer

Join Date: Aug 2009Posts: 150


Originally Posted by Majinbu you are asking 2 different points sir Estong, (1)adjusting the angle of engagement (AoE) and, (2)setting the correct timing,..

kahit OT na dito since about shimming ito, sagutin ko ng brief ne sir..,

(1)setting AoE is making the 1st tooth of the sector gear hit the 1st tooth of the piston body (pb) in the most ideal way - idealis having the most surface area between teeth on the initial impact just before the action of the pb take place - the objectiveis to minimize the stress that makes the pulling of the pb harder than when it is perfectly angeled - do that byinserting/shaving in between pb and pb head so you can achieve the horizontal location of the pb's teeth ideal for impact,

(2)setting the timing is,.. well, just draw an imaginary line connecting the 1st and last tooth of the sector gear,.. make thatline parallel to the action of the pb - while the anti-reverse latch is locked - it means, hindi about sa pagka-lapat angdelayer/advancer mo sa tappet plate sir - by doing this, your gears will rotate and be back to its timing as per the ratio of thegearsets and the anti-reverse latch over and over again,..

OT:ako din sir magpapa-sign din sayo.. hehe..

maraming salamat sir.. idol..__________________

May 25th, 2011, 21:39

3noma Airsofter

Join Date: Feb 2008Location: marikinaPosts: 228


verrrry nice sir, thx

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complete guide_ proper shimming - filipino airsoft (fas) - forum

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