Hi Crane-Fighter, the blending of tiger and crane fists has independently occurred on

several occasions, as well as the two styles you have mentioned this fusion can be

found in some systems of Wing Chun and Silat, in Goju ryu karate and many others.

Many styles have a tiger/crane form. Feeding Crane has a tiger influence too. The two

styles compliment each other so well, that I think that similar fusions will continue to

evolve in the future. I personally prefer using palm strikes to the fist and have

incorporated the tiger palm into my training. 

Your 1st and 4th patterns are found in Yong Chun White Crane. Out of interest, how

do the forms on the following website out of interest compare to the ones that you

do?http://www.fujianbaihe.com 

I don’t study Tai Chi at the moment.

I practice Shuri Ryu Karatedo and we train San Chin Kata, which is related to the Sam

Chien (San Chan--in Mandarin I believe) form that you speak of. I also looked at the

video links of the San Zhan forms and think that probably the San Chin we practice is

a cousin of the San Zhan. 

Forgive me if I misrepresent anything that follows, I am just repeating what I have

been taught about San Chin Kata. Please feel free to expand and correct anything

that may not be accurate.

In many Okinawan arts it is performed with closed fists instead of open palms, with

only three steps forward, and no turns. Chojun Miyagi made these changes to San

Chin Kata to prevent Qi/Ki from exiting the body and to help develop external

muscles of the arms. 

I believe that San Chin Kata was imported to Okinawa from the Fukien Shaolin

Temple. Beyond that, I am unsure. However, many believe that the San Chan was

developed by Daruma (Da Mo) by combining Indian martial movements with Chinese

yogic exercises (yi jin jing and xi sui jing) and that a form similar was used in the

temple to help exercise the "non-physical" monks. Though I can't speak for other

arts, in our tradition we are taught that the three conflicts spoken of in the title of the

form are birth, life, and death. 

Like I said before, though, don't take this as doctrine and please feel free to correct

me if I have mis-stated anything as I would be interested in learning additional

information that anyone can offer. 

thanks! 

Forum Regular

 

Posts: 25

Yong Chunby Crane_Fighter » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:12 pm

Hey Jo, 

I have checked out this website before but I didnt really spend long on it so it was

good to go back there.. 

I have viewed the forms and they have a lot of similar moves in there but are not

quite the same.. 

I asked my teacher about the Yong Chun origins and he said that what I study and

Yong Chun come from the same place..Fukien. 

 Keep a hold of your head while all around you are lossing theirs...

Crane_Fighter

by yat_chum » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:46 am

I’ve recently have been reading Five Ancestor Fist Kung Fu: The Way of Ngo Cho Kun

By Alexander L. Co. This book suggests that Chua Giok Beng the founder of Ngo Cho

Kun created the Sam Chien Form. “At that time, there was no master in Fukien

Province that could defeat Chua Giok Beng in hand-to-hand combat. As to a result,

many of the established masters came to study under him and were thus influenced

by Ngo Cho Kun.” .... “In Chuan Chiu, and other nearby places, many adopted his

sam chien form to the beginners curriculum.” Perhaps this is the answer to where the

Sam Chien comes from, more digging required.

Sam Chien clipsby yat_chum » Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:53 pm

http://www.fujianbaihe.com/fujianbaihe/ ... huguan.mov 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6_4v6Odcgc 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxD29u5fYy0 

http://feeding-crane.myweb.hinet.net/a2.wmvyijing zhidong

“To excel in kung fu, find it in San Zhan”.

Okay, how many times have I heard this from all my teachers?

I think it’s easier to count the number of times they did not stress this.

3 rights/battles/advances permeate many Southern Fukien styles and Okinawa/Japanese karate.

The “beginning and the end” of many White Crane lines and nothing else is taught until all the qualities are accomplished according to laid down standards.

So with so many versions, which is the earliest?

Theories and speculations abound and the jury is still out…to put it mildly…

Personally I think we should be examining initial Shaolin “swallow and spit” methodology and “3 rights” which are taught in both northern and then later, southern Lohan systems.

And for Karate folks looking for connections, this next clip from “Fuzhou Whooping Crane” should prove interesting. Not usually done these days, this form is known as “Tiger Crane 3 Battles”, the fist represents the tiger and the open-hand, the crane.

So over to my Karate blog-buddy ……

Whooping Crane "Tiger Crane" SanChin/Sanzhan. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YLog9TMFfo8 

Eric88ling/Russ Smith Weblog http://eric88ling.wordpress.com/2007/12 ... g-battles/

Sanchin

In both Goju-Ryu, which I practice, and Uechi-Ryu (a close cousin), many of the same sayings exist about San Chin (Three Battles):

Sanchin is of primary importanceEverything is in SanchinPractice Sanchin every dayIn these systems, Sanchin appears to be a “basic” form, containing (on the surface):

Stepping in a short, basic stanceForward-facing posture with both hands guarding the middlePunch or thrustGrab and pullCircular block and double palmsSpecific breath coordinationParticular posture and muscular tensionBut, looking deeper, you’ll see more:

Upper-body

Shoulders downBack straight and chin downElbows close to the bodyPunching / Thrusting technique (elbows down)Block on return punch / thrustPulling in and downCoordination of breathing and techniqueLower Body

Weight evenly distributedGroin protectedKnees protectedAggressive, circular stepping techniqueSmooth movement, without bobbing up and downControlled stepping, keeping the entire foot flat, sliding and searching with the foot.Each step is initiated by contracting and pulling the foot in, and expanding out to the next step. This assists in defending against foot sweeps, and helps in attacking the attacker’s root.Unified body

Concentration of energy from ground into punching technique.Slow technique gives the student the time to think and self-correct structural and technique problems.Sanchin Testing (”Shime”) varying from body conditioning to assisting the performer in awareness of parts of the body not locked.Sanchin breathing assists the user in exhaling when attacking, and reserving a small amount of air thatkeeps the user from having the wind knocked out of them if struck.Seeing the little bit I saw of the arts represented in Penang and Kuching, I have to say there is a fair amount of similarity, not necessarily in the shape, but certainly in the intent of the form.

-Russ

Sanchin - from the Chinese side.

Like I said earlier, personally, I think “Sanchins” could be traced all the way back to Shaolin Luohan training methods.

Old texts recorded the concept of “3 rights/straights” referring to keeping the head, upper body to be maintained straight and not tilted or bend in anyway. The buttocks to be tucked in and the feet positioned to keep the body upright.

Sink chi to dantien and all strikes driven by chi and controlled by breathing in the swallowing and spitting actions.

Depending on which styles, muscular tension fluctuates according to requirement. However, most all styles teach opening/closing of the dantien area in clear manners.

And just like in Karate, this is tested by punches or kicks.

Got a clip here describing the above - the explanation is in Mandarin.Southern Luo Han San Zheng Quan. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Il8kp2_oVo0 

Eric88ling/Russ Smith Weblog http://eric88ling.wordpress.com/2007/12 ... nese-side/

Okinawa Goshukan Karate http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8L_36D_mWQc Goshukan-ryu version of Wu Zhu Quan San Chien kata followed by Chinese version. #3 is Goshukan-Ryu version of San Zhan demonstrated by Garry Parker

From 3 to 8.It is often said that “if you do not do Sanchin, you do not do White Crane”.

I think that statement sums it up; Sanchin is the bedrock upon which White Crane fighting is based on.

And many other Fukien styles use the same methodology.

TaiZu, Wuzu, Dog Boxing, Leopard, Dragon and the list goes on….

In Singing Crane, it is a misconception to say that there is no Sanchin and “Babulien” is the substitute.

SanChin is still the beginning form for many Singing Crane families in Singapore, Malaysia and Taiwan.

“Babulien” is the form following Sanchin and this is also the case for some Fuzhou Cranes like “Flying Crane” for example.

So we know it is not Singing Crane exclusive and in fact, not even Crane Boxing specific.

There are extant Babulien in Fukien Shaolin and Fukien Lohan …just to name 2.

Singing Crane’s Babulien take students beyond the swallowing, spitting, floating and sinking.

All 8 fundamental principles are covered in the form:

SwallowingSpitting

FloatingSinkingSpringingLiftingBurstingReboundingAnd like I said many times before, translating from Fuzhou to English is so wanting sometimes. The above, is at best, a ballpark guide.

Take another look at the last 4, my Sifu taught that those are the mechanism of “Whipping Jin” generation.

When I was in Denver last year and playing with Sigung Wayne Welch, a Pak Kua high hand, we were exploring the exact same topic.

I was taking a class through basics at that time and exaggerated on the sinking and floating physically and Wayne came up to me and said they got the same concept in Pak Kua.

Except that in their case, it’s called “spiraling”…..

A short clip here showing a segment of Babulien :-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI6n0enUIj0

Taken from http://fuzhouwhitecrane.wordpress.com/