digimag 47 - september 2009. our right to internet: interview to alessandro gilioli

8/7/2019 Digimag 47 - September 2009. Our right to Internet: interview to Alessandro Gilioli

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Our right to internet: interview with alessandro gilioli - Marco Mancuso

OUR RIGHT TO INTERNET:

INTERVIEW WIT H ALESSANDRO GILIOLITxt : Marc o Mancuso / Photos court esy by Dir i t t o a l la Rete / Eng: Luisa Berto lat t i

I would say that it was almost inevitable. To live and work in a country, as democratic as it seems, where the

interdependent rapport between politics and mass media is much tighter than in any other country in the world(excluding those openly totalitarian regimes that we mentioned for example in last months Persepolis 2.0 article, ofcourse) and does not allow for libertarian utopias of any sort if they discuss any subject that is a fundamental part ofdemocracy, like the freedom of the Press, the right to an opinion, the freedom of thought.

To think that the Internet, Blogs, P2P and Social Networks could be exempt from censorship and restrictions from thegovernment, to hope that they would continue to be completely free territories forever, was absolutely naive in my

opinion: there are many negative accounts of this, on a national and international level, some of which have been

ttp://www.digicult.it/digimag/article.asp?id=1570 (1 of 12)08/02/2011 11.55.50
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discussed in Digimag during the past few years.

Regarding these themes, the Italian government seems to have already triggered an unprecedented control and

restriction policy in the Western democracies and that, as the guests of this interview Alessandro Gi l io l i and

Derr ick De Kerck hove emphasise, could bring up a series of amendments and decrees that constitute as a

dangerous precedent to be imitated by other democracies all over the world. In fact it seems that in Italy, thefreedom of the Press as we know it, is a right that exists merely on paper and much less in practice: how to interpretthe latest masked government action against the freedom of thought and of the Press, the Alfano decree on

wiretapping, which has in fact muted a whole series of bloggers on the Net, threatening them with legal action and

hefty fines? If the so-called obligation to rectify, thought of 60 years ago for the Press, is imposed on all blogs (evenamateur ones) with the foreseen hefty pecuniary fines, it would actually put a silencer on online conversations and

freedom of speech.

In a government obsessed by controlling the mass media, intent on putting a silencer on every possible voice ofprotest, fundamentally ignorant to social and economical dynamics that make up the Internet, P2P, Open Sourcing

and Social Networking, its almost inevitable to be afraid of that which you cannot control, of the so-called wordgetting out that could slip through the small mesh of an online community, as small as it can be, that has thepotential to grow and could soon become politically important (if well-represented, of course).

Therefore in protest against the Alfano Decree, on the 14th of July a virtual strike took place, a strike on the main

Italian blogs. This happened thanks to the initiative of Alessandro Gi l io l i (Journal ist , w r i t er , Editor andb logger o f L Espresso w i th h is Piovono Ranefea ture), and the collaboration of bloggers from all political

areas (and non-political areas too) and representatives of various parties and associations, the initiative asked Italianblogs to just post the logo of the protest online, with a link to the statement for the Diritto Alla Rete: http://

dirittoallarete.ning.com. The Social Networking platform worked as a collector of posts and free opinions, as well as acontainer for the images of all the bloggers who gagged themselves by taking part in the protest. The project alsoinvolved a sit-in and meeting in Piazza Navona in Rome, at 7pm on Tuesday, the 14th of July, and a symbolicgagging of the bloggers that were present as well as the statue that represents the freedom of speech, the statue of

Pasquino.



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The initiative inevitably caught my attention, be it for the objective importance of the theme in question, the fact thatDigimag naturally tends to want to know about projects done by the vivacious voices of its guests (that can be artisticand of protest), be it for the opportunity to be able to confront myself with a free-thinker whose activity and presence

on the Net, in my opinion, are very important for our country, for the distribution of a new form of hybrid journalismbetween the traditional form, connected more closely to Print and TV and to the dynamics of classic editorials, andwhat the media have erroneously crowned as being citizen journalism (which I prefer to call free journalism).

Derr ick de Kerc khove (whom I thank dearly) also answered my questions, an essayist who needs nointroduction, an opinionist, Director of McLuhan Program in Culture & Technology and Professor of the Department

of French of the University of Toronto, who in someway has been closely following the evolution of AlessandroGiliolis project.

Marco Mancuso: I w ou ld l ike to beg in th is in terv iew by ask ing you to g ive me an in i t ia l

overv iew o f the in i t ia t ive o f the b log s t r ike t ha t took p lace on the 14th o f Ju ly a f te r the

creat ion o f t he p la t fo rm The Right to Net . Persona l ly I cons ider th is in i t ia t ive to be an

impor tant s t ep tow ard the use o f the Net as a rea l p la t fo rm for d iscuss ion, thought , ga ther ing :

fo r example The Right t o Net has un i ted m any in format ive b logs and th is is very usefu l fo r a l l

those peop le tha t w ish to f ind t he i r w ay th rough the (hopefu l ly ) f ree and independent un iverse

of in format ion f rom the bot t om, tha t w as qu ick ly labe l led Ci t izen Journa l ism by the media . A t

the same t im e I ask myse l f , and ask you, as ide f rom t he act o f p ro test and s t r ik e tha t w ere

abso lu te ly legi t im ate and just i f ied , w hat pract ica l and concre t e e f fects has the in i t ia t ive been

having on a soc ia l and po l i t ica l leve l , tha t I p resume is s t i l l t h r iv ing , and what e f fects c an i thave in the future? And more general ly speak ing, in w hat d irec t i on, in your opin ion, should

w ork be done so tha t p ro test and gather ing in i t ia t ives on t he Net can have a rea l and ef f ic ien t

fa l l back in t he rea l wor ld o f our l ives?

Alessandro Gi l io l i : Well see the specific results of the protest later on: if and when the blogkiller enforcement

will be thrown out by Alfano, as we hope. Its being discussed, theres an amendment that will probably be voted for: Iam probably rashly optimistic on the hypothesis that the specific objective will be reached. But two results havealready been obtained. First of all, the initiative has brought the question of communication from the bottom in Italy(and the ignorance of our politicians) outside the self-referential circuit of blogs. Dozens of Italian and foreign

newspapers (like El Mundo) and TV stations (from Sky to the BBC) have talked about it so that they could dissent

from it. A lot of politicians and actors in politics asked themselves for the first time, what are these blogs and why arethey so pissed off?, which is something. The second result was the fact of getting the blog sector to discuss and

think about its own role and (why not?) its responsibilities. In particular the passage from a phase of simpledefensive rejection against stupid laws (D'Alia, Carlucci, ddl Alfano, etc.), to a phase of purposeful counterattackto stimulate the legislators to produce laws that keep in mind the different dynamics of online communication from the

bottom compared to the vertical journalism of Print, to be inspired toward opening, innovation, sharing and neutralityof the Net, instead of the terrorised prohibition with which theyve made their moves so far.

Derr ick de Kerc khove : The extension of news from the official press, the Twitter-like usage, the use of defensive

technology, and contributions of Italian intelligence. What fall back can be produced by protest initiatives on the Netis an interesting question. Its true that only now are social networks beginning to generate some effect; citizen

journalism through social networks involves increasing amounts of people and not only on blogs but also other forms

of communication. It could have a very strong effect on the government, despite its dependence on the number ofpeople who are connected, and the ratio between the number of people on the Internet and the actual population. Ithink for example that Italy will find its point of maturity on the Internet in the future just as America found its own with

the election of Obama, the highest moment of mass distribution of the force of the Internet compared to that ofclassic media. It means that strategies can be found to greatly augment the impact of social networks, which have aninfluence on political power, a power that we can call ecological. Politics should be ecological. Another aspect is the

impact that such a law has on peoples lives, that represses the freedom of expression. Lets hope that we will notsee a competition in Italy between the organisation of a Network that defends itself and the organisation of agovernment that attacks it. The contributions of Italian intelligence are clearly and heavily threatened if such asituation arises, the emancipation of Italian minds must not be blocked.



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Marco Mancuso:On the bas is o f the rec ent government ant i -b log orders, as fo r exam ple the

Al fano decree th is past J u ly , w hat are , in your op in ion, the actua l and potent ia l r isks t ha t t he

In ternet faces, concern ing f reedom of thought but a lso f ree c i rcu la t ion and shar ing o f f i les ,

ideas and mater ia ls , movements o f p ro t est and gather ing and autonomous processes o f

creat ion o f new pro fessions and economies, o f the defence o f one s own pr ivacy and persona l

data? In o ther , w ords, how long w i l l the Net remain a f ree te r r i to ry as we have know n i t in the

past 10 years and how dangerous cou ld the i l lus ion tha t i t w i l l a lw ays be a marg ina l te r r i to ryin contemporary soc ie ty be?

Alessandro Gi l io l i : In Italy the danger of the Net comes from a combination of intolerance, fear and ignorance of

politicians, especially those of the PDL and UDC parties. Intolerance: Berlusconi cant stand hostile media in generalhe tells people to not advertise with them, he dreams of an Italy of Minzolini communicators. Fear: politicians do notknow the Net but can suss how little it can be controlled compared to mainstream media, in other words that if a

piece comes out on the Net that embarrasses them they dont have a editor they can call the next day to ask forcompensatory articles, they dont have a reporter from the Palazzo that they can walk arm-in-arm with along theMontecitorio Transatlantic, they dont have any kind of blackmail power that they have always had over editors.Ignorance: most politicians dont know what horizontal communication is, the insertion of content in blogs or social

networks, and mechanically tend to apply laws that were thought up 60 years ago for Print. Faced with all this, the

way in which the Italian Net will live in the next few years depends mostly on us, that is to say, those people whowant it to be free and plural: how we will know how to move and influence the Palazzo, giving up on isolated and

snobby positions and facing the reality out there. But also avoiding vanity and personal ambitions, with every personworking at the service of everyone

Derr ick de Kerc khove : The problem is in the fact that the Italian law does not constitute as the exception but is

the norm. Right now the tendency toward the norm is visible, predictable in many details, in China, France, Italy andin Iran. The next law will require the creation of an internal department of defence (like the Basso fortress inFlorence, built by the Medici, non to defend the city but to defend themselves from the city). The danger does not

solely exist for Italy; the danger is that every conservative government can imitate the Italian example at any stage.At this time its clear how the governments are tempted, and one is going beyond temptation, the Italian one, to



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control people in an absolute way. Its a new and innovative way to control the population.

Its also interesting to see to what point the image of Italy, that is not seen under the best light right now withBerlusconis government, will continue to get worse to the eyes of the whole world with this new law. This is not a

positive example for a country whose inspiration tends to reach toward an openness that is very similar to theAmerican standard. The American way means an openness that is under surveillance, but with a sense of freespace, this sense can also be classified as ecological. It gives the population the possibility to live with breathing

space and I think that in Italy, to have a reputation similar to that of China on the Internet is not becoming.

But the other aspect that worries me is the tendency that the right wing governments have to research a sort ofabsolute control over people, to be carried out in many ways. If the Italian experiment (that I hope will never cometo be) becomes a model for other governments in the rest of the world, if that should really happen, we will be lost

Marco Mancuso:There s an in terest ing post on The Right t o Net c oncern ing a comment o f the

law yer Guido Scorza, an jud ic ia l IT exper t , w ho ta lks about t he r isks t ha t c hannels l ike

Youtube are fac ing. In the l igh t o f the prev ious quest ion don t you th ink tha t i t s increas ing ly

necessary to creat e an open and poss ibly shared discuss ion w i th t hose very peop le who c an

i l lus t ra te , c la r i fy and eventua l ly lega l ly help a l l those peop le w ho w ork, express themselvesand communic ate on the Net and t hrough Socia l Netw orks? Don t you t h ink t ha t in th is sense,

a p la t fo rm l ik e The Right t o Net shou ld d iscuss t h is deep ly , c la r i fy as m uch as poss ib le and

eventua l ly he lp to create a lega l case h is tory tha t can c onst i tu t e as a re ference po in t fo r a l l

those peop le who f ind themselves in d i re s t ra i ts in t he fu ture?

Alessandro Gi l io l i : Scorza is doing a great job, be it in terms of judicial information be it concerning the project fothe literacy of politicians. The Right to Net is just one of the many platforms where action can begin. To me it seemsuseful that the debate and eventual political initiatives are as flexible and plural as possible, even when offline. Lets

not fall into the trap of thinking of the Net as a problem that only regards bloggers. Its an issue that concerns allcitizens, as an open democracy.



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Derr ick de Kerc khove : The question is very interesting! I absolutely agree with the request to create forms ofinformation, discussion and assistance for all those people who are in difficulty concerning the problem of the forms

of control. In Piazza Navona the people present at the event were less than those who had taken part online, thisprobably depends on how the news about the strike action was distributed but also depends on the novelty of it.... Ihope that the number of Italians capable of expressing their consent/dissent to these laws increases greatly because

it is their right as well as their duty, in other words the more people participate the more they create/whip-up a case oflegal interest... finding a way to protect this Right to Net with international laws.

For example, in part of the decree by Alfano there is a constitutional illegitimacy in relation to the art.21, what are wewaiting for to denounce this in uproar? A thorough juridical study would be best, to guarantee this Right to the Net,to build, through a scientific committee made up of Italian jurors, substantial legal support, with great visibility on the

Net, that underlines the contrasts between ddl Alfano and the Constitution

Marco Mancuso:Socia l Netw orks and v i r tua l /rea l ident i t y . How can t he pro ject The Right t o

the Net be compared to the un iverse of Soc ia l Netw orks, how do they or w i l l t hey use

dynamics o f in tegra t ion w i th p la t fo rms l ik e Del ic ious, Twi t te r and Facebook ( I don t m ean

in tegra t ing v ideos f rom Youtube, V imeo or D igg, tha t is c ommonplace now ), ad most o f a l l

how w i l l the unso lved d i lemma of g iv ing a face, a body, a phys ica l i ty fo r act ion to t ha t v i r tua l

ident i ty t ha t ex is t s beh ind every account t ha t par t ic ipa t es to your in i t ia t ive? What dynamics

shou ld be used as leverage? I ask you because you had the courage to fac e th is t op ic , in the

moment w hen you asked peop le to par t ic ipa te phys ica l ly in P iazza Navona on the 15th o f Ju lyw hi le doing the b log s t r ike on l ine a t the same t ime.

Alessandro Gi l io l i : Thats the point. To make the issue of the Net in Italy come out of the closed circuit ofbloggers and Net-Fans is fundamental. You need to work at it every day. Every person must, with his or her own

means in order to create a civil battle for everyone. Its also an economical battle: the innovation of Italy is veryslow and scarce compared to other countries, not just European ones and does not just pass through the wideningof the band, but also through the widening of collective consciousness. A virtual reality that distinctly sets againstphysical reality no longer exists (if it ever did): the virtual is a part of the real and an important part too. The

Physical encounter in Piazza Navona had a symbolic value. In this, I believe that whoever has acted on the Net formany years must step forward, avoid feeling snobby and part of a different and more advanced world, facethemselves and get their hands dirty with topics like literacy and distribution.

Derr ick de Kerc khove :...e must persuade the mainstream media in Italy to join in.



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Marco Mancuso:You are an a f fi rmed journa l is t o f a la rge ed i to r ia l g roup, but a t the same t im e

you are a lso one of the m ost renow ned b loggers on the I ta l ian Netw ork. On more t han one

occ asion you did not hes i ta te t o tak e an act iv is t s tand and you presented your b log Piovono

Rane (Its Raining Frogs) to the defence o f cases l ike , as I can reca l l , the case o f the ra id on the

Communi t y Cent re Cox18 and the Ca lusca Arc h ive . How do you conci l ia t e your ro le as a

journal ist f or the editor ia l group L Espresso w it h your ro le as a b logger onl ine: in other

w ords, how m uch does the Net (as a mass medium considered to be o f l it t le impact compared

to new spapers and TV) s t i l l a l low for a marg in o f f ree act iv is t ac t ion t o pro fess iona ljourna lis ts l ik e yoursel f , and how muc h w i l l i t inc reas ingly become a ba lance betw een the wi l l

o f the ind iv idua l p ro fess iona l and the ont o logy o f the Press. And how b ig is t he r isk o f the

pro l i fe ra t ion o f b logs tha t ex press prec ise op in ions and assume cer t a in pos i t ions wi t h the

purpose o f c o l lect ing users (and there fore readers, o r po tent ia l e lect ors) f rom soc ia l a reas

that a re more ext reme (be they le f t o r r igh t w ing)?

Alessandro Gi l io l i : Personally I am lucky to work for a newspaper that has a long tradition of civil battles and so Ihave the possibility to use blogs quite freely for that which you cal activism. Blogs allow for a margin of autonomy

and independence that if managed with responsibility and awareness is much greater than that of a printednewspaper (which is still a collective product). The balance between personal activism and the position of the

newspaper has many variables though and must be measured with intelligence every day. Its obvious that in myblog which is a part of the website of the Espresso - I have greater responsibility and constraints compared toanother hypothetical personal blog outside the website of the newspaper. But its worth it, because being a part of theEspresso you also have an audience and greater feedback, which makes it easier to defend those cases that you

speak of, and eventually get to activism. In other words, it means you can move better for the results that you wantto obtain in the balance between positions of the newspaper and personal freedom.

On the other hand, here luckily the funny but golden rule that the BBC gave as a unique policy to its journalists-

bloggers: do as you like, but use your common sense and your head. Which isnt bad as a margin for freedom. As forthe proliferation of blogs that take extreme positions or super assertive to the sole purpose of attracting users, Idont see anything wrong with that or anything risky: everyone must have the right to do the blog he or she



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chooses, with the purpose that they want, and it will be the users the readers who will give them credibility and

authority.

Derr ick de Kerc khove : A healthy relationship between the press and the networks is essential for the well-being

and the openness of society. Every government experiences the temptation to control the media, every newspaper attimes experiences nervousness at publishing risky reports. The condition of freedom, not only of peoples expressionbut also of their movement rests largely on an open relationship between government, mainstream media and thenetwork. The network is not a new underground, it is the ground itself. People have to be able to express their

opinions and desires and see them reflected in the media when they pertain to social well-being as in the case of Iran

On the other hand, the presence of mainstream journalists who are also credible in the world of networks is part of

the public image of great editorial groups. There is, in Canada, the principle of "arms length" between thegovernment and the media, that is, they are inevitably closely related but manage somehow to maintain theirindependence mutually. A journalist with a blog establishes the liaison between the world of individual opinion and

information to the world of media consensus. It requires, of course someone capable to maintain a quality blog.

An "arms length" agreement" between government and the press on the matter of reporting is thus necessary. By

which I mean, that a respected newspaper should never be refrained from reporting on public opinion for fear that thegovernment will retire its support. And a respected journalist like Alessandro Gilioli should never have to fear theconsequences on his honest reporting in blogs as well as on the paper.

Internally the editorial board may not always be ready to take risks. But, in many newspapers of internationalreputation such as le Monde in France, The New York Times in the US, and La Repubblica in Italy there is enoughprofessional honesty and standards to tolerate a critical attitude within their midst. The association creates a greater

sense of trust among the papers readers.

Thus, there ought to be a mutual support between network, citizen journalists and the mainstream media. Longbefore blogs were invented, the collaboration has begun dozens of years ago, with Englands Daily Telegraphy



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taking the lead in the early nineties, by seeking the opinions of people on line and offering special services. Media

began to act as accelerators of pertinent citizen news. Artists -artisvist- groups in Italy, such Taziana BazichellisAHA or Alessandro Ludovicos NEURAL have shown the way. The idea has always been to help the main media, noto ut the then down. The consequence should be that the main media recognize the value added service provided by

responsible reflexive hacktivism, and citizien, eyewitness journalism. If we want to still talk about democracy in thenext few critical years, networks and media must work together to advise and dissuade governments from silly ordangerous impulses to block free expression of the public. Governments, after all, are not a private profit-oriented

businesses, they belong to the people who vote for them and the electorate should be able to expect the services ithas paid for.

Marco Mancuso:I l l ask you a quest ion tha t I asked t he authors o f the graph ic nove l

Persepol is 2 .0 last mont h , an ar t is t ic p ro ject o f re -ed i t ing o f t he graph ic nove l Persepo l is tha t

t races an ar t is t ic and narra t ive para l le l betw een the I ran ian revo lu t ion o f 1979 and the

pro test m ovements o f 2009. My thought , and that o f t he authors, is tha t f rom the m oment t ha t

the pro test o f young peop le in Iran o f the past few w eeks w as repressed by v io lence, and

causes the s im ul taneous c losure o f Netw orks and a hunt fo r b loggers and a l l those f rom I ran

w ho were gu i l ty o f hav ing com municat ed wi t h the rest o f the wor ld by repor t ing the vio lence

that w as tak ing p lace, the great mass m edia (but a lso on l ine) d id not cover or emphasize the

s i tua t ion , abandon ing the I ran ian popu la t ion and leav ing i t to i t s dest iny. In o ther w ords, i t s

evermore ev ident t ha t t he Net (as the mass medium that i t now is) has an enormous potent ia l

in keep ing the a t ten t ion on cer t a in po l i t ica l s i tua t ions in the w or ld and consequent ly has a

growing responsib i l i t y (be i t e th ic a l o r p ro fess iona l ) concern ing i ts po tent ia l and i tsshor tcomings. When the Net , the countercu l t u res on the In ternet , the in i t ia t ives tha t a re

concerned w i th f reedom of express ion on l ine , websi tes l ike Reppub l ica or L Espresso, b logs,

do not use the i r po tent ia l (or on ly do so fo r shor t per iods o f t ime and on ly connected t o the

hot t est new s bu l le t ins), you ask yourse l f how muc h are w e who w ork on the d is t r ibu t ion o f

news and cu l tu re on t he Net responsib le o f some shor tcomings or hypocr is ies. What do you

th ink? Don t you th ink t ha t a t t imes the Net fa l ls in to pro fess iona l dynamics tha t a re too

s imi la r to t hose o f common mass m edia , there fore s lowly los ing par t o f i ts revo lu t ionary fo rce

and i ts p ropu ls ive dynamics, as na ive as they may be?

Alessandro Gi l io l i : Perfection is no ones and nobodys, not even the Nets. But on the Net there are long linesand retrievals, and niche websites that dont let go of a topic such as Burma or Iran just because current affairs has.

So things are better than they were 20 years ago, when there were just Print newspapers and so consult archivesyou had to go to the public library, or if you wanted to know what was happening in a far-off country that was ignoredby the newspapers you had to walk around various associations in a City. For example, for personal reasons I followthe Burma situation closely, but I cannot do a daily post of Burma because if not I will have lost dozens of readers:

which would not be useful for the distribution of other important news. At the same time, when I see something newor strong about Burma then I gladly put it in there. Once again, for a journalistic-generalist website or blog its aquestion of balance and good sense.

Another issue for blogs and niche websites, naturally, is that are like online data banks that are perpetually updatableand consultable. In other words, I wouldnt get too paranoid about Journalist logic of online activism as a negativedynamic: the important thing is that theres a plurality that is as free as possible and contains as many voices and

topics, battles and elaborations as possible

Derr ick de Kerc khove : I dont think so, because I think the problem lies elsewhere and is much more

dangerous, as that quoted of the repression of blogs in Iran. The accessibility of anybody on the Net createsconditions for absolute control. There will be a great temptation in many countries, like Italy (and perhaps even theUnited States in the next Republican reign) to experiment a kind of electronic fascism.



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Marco Mancuso:I wou ld l ike t o conc lude th is in terv iew by t ry ing to re f lect on a po in t tha t I

th ink is impor tant : the very ex is t ence o f th is in t erv iew! As ide f rom t he obvious and r igh t

dynamics o f the younger pro fess iona l who in terv iew s the exper t , o f the countercu l t u re

w ebsi te l ike D ig icu l t tha t is in terested in the act iv i t ies o f a journa l is t o f an impor tant na t iona l

Newspaper and a great ed i to r ia l g roup, I ask m yse l f whet her th is in terv iew s igna ls a cer ta in

w eakness in the pro ject The Right to Net . In o ther w ords, don t you t h ink t ha t there s the r isk

that t hese in i t ia t ives are perce ived as vert ic a l in i t ia t ives, di rect ed by an in te l lect ua l e l i te tha tdesp i te everyth ing doesn t speak t he same language as the new c lasses o f p ro fess iona ls and

in te l lect ua ls tha t have been created in I ta ly in the past dec ade, tha t desp i te everyth ing

remain too fa r aw ay f rom the c ommon peop le , f rom young peop le w ho do po li t ic s on the Net ,

f rom the act iv is t c ountercu l tu res tha t an imate i t? I m sure tha t , and luck i ly may I add, the

in i t ia t ive w as a success and I ve seen that m any peop le par t ic ipa ted in t he p la t fo rm The Right

to Net , bu t a t t he same t im e, by read ing a few posts here and there , I m s t i l l s t ruck by cer ta in

messages l ike : The in i t ia t ive has seen par t ic ipants and b loggers f rom every po l i t ic a l a rea

(but a lso non-pol i t ica l areas) and representat ives f rom var ious part ies and associat ions. Some

of the part ic i pants: Ignazio Marino, Vincenzo Vita, Mario Adinolf i and Francesc o Verducc i (Pd

Democrat ic Party) ; Antonio Di Pietr o ( Idv): P ietro Folena (Party of t he European Lef t ) ; Ami ci

d i Beppe Gri l lo (Fr iends of Beppe Gri l lo) in Rome, Calabr ia and Tarant o; Art ic olo 21; Sin ist ra e

Libert (Lef t and Freedom); Per i l Bene Comune (For t he Common Good); Part i to L iberaleI ta l i ano (PLI) . On an individual level ot her people have part ic ipated suc h as Giuseppe Civat i ,

Sergio Ferrent i no, Massim o Mantel l i n i , A lessandro Robecc hi, Claudio Sabel l i Fioret t i , Ivan

Scalfarot to, Luca Sofr i , Marco Travagl io and Vit t or io Zambardino. Some par l iam entar ians f rom

the ru l ing part y ( l ike Antoni o Palmier i and Bruno Murgia), even i f they w ont be in the p iazza,

have expressed t heir opposit ion t o the Net -Gagging law in the Alfano decree. . .. in other

w ords, the in t roduct ion in to new envi ronments is not under l ined in t rad i t iona l po l i t ics and in

the dominant in t e l lectua l soc ie t y , as much as the c lasses and groups and people w ho th ink

they can represent a gu ide but tha t perhaps many peop le on the Net or peop le w ho do

po l i t ics t h rough new tec hno log ies, a re no longer perce ived as rea l a l te rnat ives f rom a

po l i t ica l po in t o f v iew . What do you th ink about t h is?



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Alessandro Gi l io l i : I dont want to repeat myself, but its still a question of balance. If the participation in a battleof people who are stimulated and considered authoritative for different reasons is useful for the result of the battleitself, this should be communicated and valued. If I had written: My grocer Gino participated too, as well as mydoorman Guido, my cleaner Luz and the neighbourhood officer Erminio, I would have been more horizontal and

more democratic, but a little silly too. The important thing is that when the initiative takes place, everyone mixes upthe same way, without verticality or leadership (for this reason in Piazza Navona I avoided getting up on a stage andtalking, leaving the speeches up to a judicial expert such as Scorza and a Network expert such as De Kerckhove). If

hundreds of unknown blogs hadnt participated in the strike, it would have been a failure. But in the moment ofpreparation the participation of authoritative characters was useful so as to involve the unknown blogs. In otherwords, we try to avoid ideologies and to be pragmatic: its right that there are no leaderships and personal interests,

but its also right that authoritative characters spend their time if this can be useful to the positive outcome of theinitiative. It is strenuous to find the right balance between the two each and every time.

Derr ick de Kerc khove : I dont know Italian politics well enough to be able to answer this question, but I will say

that whatever the quantity be it homeopathic of the representation of the critique of power, the effect isbelievable, if it does not touch the masses. This means that there are people circulating on the net that are capableof having a believable and authoritative position, in the sense that Social Networks are a pertinent world of

connections: person to person, group to group, they become a fact... like a Press Release.... It has happened inother historical situations. Think of the voice of a person who lives outside his or her country and conditions an ever-growing network of people in the rest of the world.

Its an interesting thing; it means that its perfectly possible to find a reference on the Internet that comes at lightspeed to the right person. I think that this is the great power of the Internet, from a small dosage of information thatbecomes important, that circulates at light speed and allows people to do things. As Mc Luhan says: light speed is

the maximum function of speed not the quantity of information, its the speed of access that makes the mass, its amass of real time, a mass that is built up and broken down. Information works that way, its a different way withrespect to traditional strategies of the so-called mass media.

Having said that, I continue to sustain that in order to make a positive action of persuasion on the government, a



12/12


union of all the official Press is preferable, if they accept to take a stand on this topic... and I think that the Union of

the Press would be essential in the future of political decisions. This in my belief and must be the effect of otherinitiatives of The Right to Net.

The stimuli and pressure come from the Internet, from Social Networks, from blogs, and are released into reality, intothe media, the mainstream, because the Internet is underground.

http: / /d ir i t toal larete.n ing.com/

ht tp: / /g i l io l i .b logautore.espresso.repubbl ica. i t /

h t t p ://w w w .c i t t ad ino lex.ka taw eb.i t /a r t ic le_v iew .jsp?idAr t=88618&idCat=120
http://dirittoallarete.ning.com/http://gilioli.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/http://www.cittadinolex.kataweb.it/article_view.jsp?idArt=88618&idCat=120http://www.cittadinolex.kataweb.it/article_view.jsp?idArt=88618&idCat=120http://gilioli.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/http://dirittoallarete.ning.com/

digimag 47 - september 2009. our right to internet: interview to alessandro gilioli

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