distressed debt – impact and opportunities · 2017. 7. 26. · distressed debt – where are the...
TRANSCRIPT
Distressed Debt – Impact and Opportunities
Thomas R. Goodwin, EVP, DebtX
Kent Wheelock, VP, US Bank
Mark Holman, Director, Archon Group
November 4, 2008
Distressed Debt – How Did We Get Here
Source: Bunch of different sources
Sub-Prime Loans as a % of All Originations
0%
5%
10%
15%
20%
25%
2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
Distressed Debt – How Did We Get Here?
The Bursting Housing Bubble - Case Shiller Housing Price Index
100
110
120
130
140
150
160
170
180
190
200
Jan-
00
Jul-
00
Jan-
01
Jul-
01
Jan-
02
Jul-
02
Jan-
03
Jul-
03
Jan-
04
Jul-
04
Jan-
05
Jul-
05
Jan-
06
Jul-
06
Jan-
07
Jul-
07
Jan-
08
Source: Economy.com; Greed and reckless abandon
20.2%
Distressed Debt – How Did We Get Here?
First Mortgage Defaults
0
500
1,000
1,500
2,000
2,500
3,000
3,500
Sep-00 Mar-01 Sep-01 Mar-02 Sep-02 Mar-03 Sep-03 Mar-04 Sep-04 Mar-05 Sep-05 Mar-06 Sep-06 Mar-07 Sep-07 Mar-08 Sep-08
Source: Economy.com
Distressed Debt – How Did We Get Here?
Source: Economy.com
Household Debt in Default
0
100
200
300
400
500
600
700
800
900
1,000
Sep-01 Mar-02 Sep-02 Mar-03 Sep-03 Mar-04 Sep-04 Mar-05 Sep-05 Mar-06 Sep-06 Mar-07 Sep-07 Mar-08 Sep-08
Distressed Debt – How Did We Get Here
Quarterly CMBS Delinquency Rates by Property Type
2005 to 2Q 2008
0.00
0.50
1.00
1.50
2.00
2.50
3.00
3.50
4.00
1Q05 2Q05 3Q05 4Q05 1Q06 2Q06 3Q06 4Q06 1Q07 2Q07 3Q07 4Q07 1Q08 2Q08
M-F Office Retail Industrial Lodging
Distressed Debt - Delinquency Rates By Asset Classes (U.S)
Delinquency Rates By Asset
(All Banks)
0
2
4
6
8
10
12
2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2
Del.
Rate
s
Residential R/E Commericial R/E C&I Credit Cards
SOURCE: Federal Reserve Board
1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 19991998 20052004 2006 2007200220012000 20031997 2008
Distressed Debt - AAA CMBS Spreads to Swaps*
* Swaps apx. T’s + 50-60bp
�
10YR, AAA Spread Over Swaps
0
100
200
300
400
500
600
70010/1
2/2
007
11/1
2/2
007
12/1
2/2
007
1/1
2/2
008
2/1
2/2
008
3/1
2/2
008
4/1
2/2
008
5/1
2/2
008
6/1
2/2
008
7/1
2/2
008
8/1
2/2
008
9/1
2/2
008
10/1
2/2
008
AAA
* Swaps apx. T’s + 50-60bp
October 2007 to October 2008
Distressed Debt - BBB CMBS Spreads to Swaps
10YR, BBB Spread Over Swaps
0
500
1000
1500
2000
2500
300010/1
2/2
007
11/1
2/2
007
12/1
2/2
007
1/1
2/2
008
2/1
2/2
008
3/1
2/2
008
4/1
2/2
008
5/1
2/2
008
6/1
2/2
008
7/1
2/2
008
8/1
2/2
008
9/1
2/2
008
10/1
2/2
008
BBB
October 2007 to October 2008
0
5
10
15
20
25
30
35
Perf Sub Non Perf Sub Non BBB Unrated
CRE Pre-Q3 ’07 CRE – Q3 ‘08 CMBS
%
Distressed Debt - Attractive Yields in the Secondary Market
Distressed Debt - Secondary Loan Trading Volume (U.S)
Secondary Loan Trading
Dollar Volume1991 to Q2 2008
$0
$50
$100
$150
$200
$250
$300
$350
$ (
Bil.)
Par $3.60 $4.93 $6.29 $13.03 $25.61 $33.45 $51.62 $65.77 $70.17 $77.97 $75.82 $64.90 $87.42 $113.49 $135.52 $198.67 $310.20 $322.65
Distressed $4.40 $6.20 $8.75 $7.78 $8.21 $6.05 $9.02 $11.79 $8.93 $24.00 $41.70 $47.58 $57.15 $41.52 $40.82 $39.89 $31.82 $39.82
1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 LTM2Q08
SOURCE: Loan Pricing Corporation
Distressed Debt - Trends In The Marketplace – Sell Side
� Land acquisition & development, and builder loans (“I don’t want to hold 5
years”)
�Stalled high-rise condo loans (proud to have a 50% fall-out rate)
�Failed condo conversion loans (short sales killing final sponsor sell-out)
� Securitization product sitting on warehouse lines that mature soon
� Hospitality, older product (anticipating PIP’s if not hit with one already)
� Franchise (restaurant, C & G)
� CTL’s (really FCTL’s)
� Entertainment (stadium seating with Dolby Surround Sound or a flea market)
� Weakened Retail (Anything in WalMart’s path)
� Sale of work-out credits to hit overall NPA levels
� Sale of loans to help manage officer workload
Distressed Debt - Trends In The Marketplace – Buy Side
� Asset valuations impacted by:
�hold times for “for-sale” properties
�new financing environment for cash flowing assets
� Much more scrutiny on exit timing & final disposition price
� Underwriting on a much more granular basis, no buying off a tape
� 100% site inspections / BPO’s versus sampling
� Minimum IRR’s way up
� Wait and see approach (don’t want to report a write-down after first
acquisition)
Distressed Debt - Historical Vacancies
Historical Vacancies
0
2
4
6
8
10
12
14
16
18
20
Dec
-00
Apr-0
1Aug
-01
Dec
-01
Apr-0
2Aug
-02
Dec
-02
Apr-0
3Aug
-03
Dec
-03
Apr-0
4Aug
-04
Dec
-04
Apr-0
5Aug
-05
Dec
-05
Apr-0
6Aug
-06
Dec
-06
Apr-0
7Aug
-07
Dec
-07
Apr-0
8Aug
-08
Source: PPR
Vacancy
RateApartment Warehouse Office Retail
Distressed Debt – Where Are Vacancies Headed?
Distressed Debt – Where Are Vacancies Headed
Vacancies Rising
0
2
4
6
8
10
12
14
16
18
20
Dec
-08
Feb-0
9Apr
-09
Jun-
09Aug
-09
Oct
-09
Dec
-09
Feb-1
0Apr
-10
Jun-
10Aug
-10
Oct
-10
Dec
-10
Feb-1
1Apr
-11
Jun-
11Aug
-11
Oct
-11
Dec
-11
Feb-1
2Apr
-12
Jun-
12Aug
-12
Oct
-12
Dec
-12
Source: PPR
Vacancy
Rate
Apartment Warehouse Office Retail
Distressed Debt – Where Are Values Headed
Distressed Debt – Where Are The Opportunities
Source: Goodwin’s Imagination
Disproportionate Impact of Pricing Declines on Lot ValuesW as C/B Is
Finished Lot Cost 150,000$ 25% (258)$ 0% 45,000$ 10%
$ Cost / SF 185.00$ 185.00$ 185.00$
SF 2,120 2,120$ 2,120$
Total Cost 392,200$ 392,200$ 392,200$
Margin 15% 15% 4%
Profit 58,830$ 58,830$ 13,830$
Builder Costs 451,030$ 75% 451,030$ 100% 406,030$ 90%
Selling Price 601,030$ -25% 450,773$ 451,030$
(Land + Costs) Decline
Distressed Debt – Where Are The Opportunities
Conduit Loan Maturities
0
20
40
60
80
100
120
140
160
2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018
Source: Maximus Advisors
Distressed Debt – When Do We Recover
Q3 ’08 Q4 ’08 Q1 ’09 Q2 ’09 Q3 ‘09 Q4 ’09 Q1 ’10 Q2 ’10 Q3 ’10 Q4 ‘10
Oil prices peak
Stock marketbottoms
Homesales
bottom
Housing starts
bottom
Employmentbottoms
Fed tightens
Housing pricesbottom
Foreclosurespeak
Housing pricesresume rising
Joblessrate peaks
Source: Economy.com
Economicexpansion
begins
DebtX Outlook
�Principals have sold loans through 3 cycles
�Each cycle has gotten shorter (though maybe not this time)
�Better information more readily available
�More cash raised each cycle
�$300 Billion per WSJ, in 2007
�More than $20 Billion raised YTD ’08 by funds for just Sub-Prime purchases
�Blackstone alone has 9 funds which have raised > $25 Billion for distressed real
estate debt and equity
�Cycle starts with appreciable “Bid – Ask Gap” due to asset valuation
�Concurrently banks begin adding reserves, adjusting the expectations for ultimate
resolution value
�Money can wait on the sidelines only so long, especially since so much of it is “OPM”
�As deals start getting done, managers of OPM don’t want miss opportunities
�Several OPM managers have said “I don’t have to wait for the bottom, it’s just gotta be
close.”
�Biggest risk in asset dumping versus orderly recognition
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