Download - Audi 18T Oil Pressure Problems
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 165
User Name Log In Remember me
Forum Main ModelshyLine Discussion B6 A4 B6 A4 Tech18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Be the first of your friends to like thisLike
Search Audizine
Hello and welcome to the Audizine Forums
As a guest you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offerbut in order to post search contact members and get full use out of the website you will need toRegister for an Account Its free and its easy so dont hesitate to join the Audizine Family today
If youre new to forums in general be sure to check out the Forum FAQ To start viewing posts select theforum section that you want to visit from the selection below
Thread 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Results 1 to 15 of 15
Thread Tools Display
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
Guestshyonly advertisement Register or Log In now
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
18tOil
Pressure SurvivalGuide Oil Pressure Warning Light
1
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 265
diagnosis and troubleshooting
Table of contents IntroductionSection 1 shy Main Oiling System Components of the 18t engineSection 2 shy Understand Oil Flow through the EngineSection 3 shy Basic Physics of Flow and Pressure related to EngineLubricationSection 4 shy Oil Pressure and Flow within the EngineSection 5 shy General Causes of Low Oil PressureSection 6 shy The Oil Pressure Warning System and how it worksSection 7 shy Oil Pressure Testing and Specifications for the 18t(AMB) engineSection 8 shy Diagnosing and Troubleshooting Oil Pressure ProblemsSection 9 shy Additional Information and WrapshyUp [Time to Wrench]
Introduction I remember the first time I got the dreaded ldquoOil Pressure WarningLightrdquo I was driving about 15mph in south Baltimore on my way towork going uphill in moderate traffic enjoying my coffee and thenBeep Beep Beep and I see some strange cryptic symbol on theDIC The damn thing scared the crap out of me A few secondslater it was gone I pulled over and immediately checked the oilFull My car didnt come with an ownerrsquos manual so I was cluelessas to what it meant I tried looking for some info on my phone butafter just a few quick reads I had no answers So I took the backroads to work so I could drive slow and pull over if needed butmade it there without any new problems So I thought
It was those initial warnings that eventually lead me to theAudizine Forums The more I read the more concerned andconfused I got There were dozens of threads about the warninglight and oil pressure problems and sludge with the car I justpurchased Being totally unfamiliar with the engine and thecommunity I had a hard time trying to determine how serious aproblems I was facing and where to start
One year later Irsquove made a lot of progress and learned many thingsabout how great the B6 and the 18T engine is as well as itsweaknesses Irsquom still surprised to see new Oil Pressure threads popup and I wanted to consolidate some of the information here and atother sites to help new 18T owners identify and hopefully fix theiroil problems before they destroy their fine machine
My main goal is to simply consolidate as much relevant informationpossible to help others understand the general concepts of a typicalengine lubrication system and help to diagnose oil pressure relatedproblems specific to the 18t engine At a very minimum thoseseeking help should at least learn the basic relevant componentsand terminology from this guide and using those terms in theforums while trying to get assistance will likely result in some fasterresponses from those more experienced members
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 365
While this information is focused on Late Model 18t engines andmany of the examples and photos used here are specifically for theAMB engine type I feel that there is a lot of relevant and usefulinformation which would pertain to other engine modelsBefore we continue I will admit that there is very little newinformation contained within this thread Everything can be foundhere on Audizine and the many many other Audi Volkswagen andcar enthusiast websites Irsquoll link all of the original sources that I canidentify in order to help anyone who is looking for more inshydepthresearch Also while I am citing and referencing a lot of detailedmechanical engineering information I am not a mechanicalengineer My background is in Industrial Engineering andAutomation and Architecture I threw away the physics andengineering text books many years ago If I have included anyinformation which is inaccurate Irsquoll ask that those moreknowledgeable please let me know and Irsquoll be happy to update thispost as often as needed
ONE MORE THING ndash if you are reading this guide because you havean oil pressure warning light while driving and you want answersfast then do yourself a huge favor and stop reading this right nowFind a friend who has one or purchase an oil pressure test gaugeright now Clicky Clicky You cannot diagnose anything withoutknowing your oil system pressure If you went to the doctor for achest pains and he didnrsquot have a stethoscope or asphygmomanometer (The blood pressure tester thing) you wouldlaugh at him Well if you try to get help here or on any reputableforum and you do not have this most vital tool then you are notgoing to get much meaningful help
Section 1 shy Main OilingSystem Components of the18t engine The main engine lubrication components are shown in below (fig 1and 2) Irsquom listing only the key components for those totallyunfamiliar with the engine
Oil Pump Assembly 4Pickup Tube 15Oil Pump Drive Chain 7Oil Pump Chain Tensioner 10
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 465
Filter Housing 24Pressure Relief Bypass Valve 4Oil Cooler 23Oil Filter 21Oil Pressure Switch 17
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 565
Section 2 ndash Understand OilFlow Through the Engine Most Automotive Internal Combustion Engines follow a fairly basicoil flow circuit In General oil passes through a pickup tube strainerinto the pump then through the oil filter and onto the enginevarious engine components which require oil for lubrication and orcooling The 18t engine has a fairly familiar oil circuit diagram (figshy3)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 665
From the pump oil flows up the right front side of the block througha Oslash12mm gallery and then takes a sharp 90deg turn towards the rearof the engine towards the Filter Housing Flange (figshy4) then intothe preshyfiltered chamber within the Oil Filter Housing (figshy6 1)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 765
Within the filter housing oil is channeled to a coupling for the oilcooler where it passes through a small heat exchanger (Oil Cooler)and then into the outside of the oil filter (figshy7) Oil exits the filterinto the center threaded tube and back into the body of the FilterHousing (figshy8)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 865
After passing back into the filter housing oil enters the PostshyFilterchamber (figshy6 2) This chamber is connected to a spring loadedpressure relief bypass valve (figshy6 3) This valve is designed toopen when the pump pressure exceeds the flow requirements ofthe engine Oil then feeds the main block lower oil gallery to thebearings and splits the flow to the upper oil gallery to the CylinderHead Note that there is a small one way checkshyvalve which keepsthe oil from draining back from the cylinder head while the engineis off (figshy6 4)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 265
diagnosis and troubleshooting
Table of contents IntroductionSection 1 shy Main Oiling System Components of the 18t engineSection 2 shy Understand Oil Flow through the EngineSection 3 shy Basic Physics of Flow and Pressure related to EngineLubricationSection 4 shy Oil Pressure and Flow within the EngineSection 5 shy General Causes of Low Oil PressureSection 6 shy The Oil Pressure Warning System and how it worksSection 7 shy Oil Pressure Testing and Specifications for the 18t(AMB) engineSection 8 shy Diagnosing and Troubleshooting Oil Pressure ProblemsSection 9 shy Additional Information and WrapshyUp [Time to Wrench]
Introduction I remember the first time I got the dreaded ldquoOil Pressure WarningLightrdquo I was driving about 15mph in south Baltimore on my way towork going uphill in moderate traffic enjoying my coffee and thenBeep Beep Beep and I see some strange cryptic symbol on theDIC The damn thing scared the crap out of me A few secondslater it was gone I pulled over and immediately checked the oilFull My car didnt come with an ownerrsquos manual so I was cluelessas to what it meant I tried looking for some info on my phone butafter just a few quick reads I had no answers So I took the backroads to work so I could drive slow and pull over if needed butmade it there without any new problems So I thought
It was those initial warnings that eventually lead me to theAudizine Forums The more I read the more concerned andconfused I got There were dozens of threads about the warninglight and oil pressure problems and sludge with the car I justpurchased Being totally unfamiliar with the engine and thecommunity I had a hard time trying to determine how serious aproblems I was facing and where to start
One year later Irsquove made a lot of progress and learned many thingsabout how great the B6 and the 18T engine is as well as itsweaknesses Irsquom still surprised to see new Oil Pressure threads popup and I wanted to consolidate some of the information here and atother sites to help new 18T owners identify and hopefully fix theiroil problems before they destroy their fine machine
My main goal is to simply consolidate as much relevant informationpossible to help others understand the general concepts of a typicalengine lubrication system and help to diagnose oil pressure relatedproblems specific to the 18t engine At a very minimum thoseseeking help should at least learn the basic relevant componentsand terminology from this guide and using those terms in theforums while trying to get assistance will likely result in some fasterresponses from those more experienced members
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 365
While this information is focused on Late Model 18t engines andmany of the examples and photos used here are specifically for theAMB engine type I feel that there is a lot of relevant and usefulinformation which would pertain to other engine modelsBefore we continue I will admit that there is very little newinformation contained within this thread Everything can be foundhere on Audizine and the many many other Audi Volkswagen andcar enthusiast websites Irsquoll link all of the original sources that I canidentify in order to help anyone who is looking for more inshydepthresearch Also while I am citing and referencing a lot of detailedmechanical engineering information I am not a mechanicalengineer My background is in Industrial Engineering andAutomation and Architecture I threw away the physics andengineering text books many years ago If I have included anyinformation which is inaccurate Irsquoll ask that those moreknowledgeable please let me know and Irsquoll be happy to update thispost as often as needed
ONE MORE THING ndash if you are reading this guide because you havean oil pressure warning light while driving and you want answersfast then do yourself a huge favor and stop reading this right nowFind a friend who has one or purchase an oil pressure test gaugeright now Clicky Clicky You cannot diagnose anything withoutknowing your oil system pressure If you went to the doctor for achest pains and he didnrsquot have a stethoscope or asphygmomanometer (The blood pressure tester thing) you wouldlaugh at him Well if you try to get help here or on any reputableforum and you do not have this most vital tool then you are notgoing to get much meaningful help
Section 1 shy Main OilingSystem Components of the18t engine The main engine lubrication components are shown in below (fig 1and 2) Irsquom listing only the key components for those totallyunfamiliar with the engine
Oil Pump Assembly 4Pickup Tube 15Oil Pump Drive Chain 7Oil Pump Chain Tensioner 10
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 465
Filter Housing 24Pressure Relief Bypass Valve 4Oil Cooler 23Oil Filter 21Oil Pressure Switch 17
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 565
Section 2 ndash Understand OilFlow Through the Engine Most Automotive Internal Combustion Engines follow a fairly basicoil flow circuit In General oil passes through a pickup tube strainerinto the pump then through the oil filter and onto the enginevarious engine components which require oil for lubrication and orcooling The 18t engine has a fairly familiar oil circuit diagram (figshy3)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 665
From the pump oil flows up the right front side of the block througha Oslash12mm gallery and then takes a sharp 90deg turn towards the rearof the engine towards the Filter Housing Flange (figshy4) then intothe preshyfiltered chamber within the Oil Filter Housing (figshy6 1)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 765
Within the filter housing oil is channeled to a coupling for the oilcooler where it passes through a small heat exchanger (Oil Cooler)and then into the outside of the oil filter (figshy7) Oil exits the filterinto the center threaded tube and back into the body of the FilterHousing (figshy8)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 865
After passing back into the filter housing oil enters the PostshyFilterchamber (figshy6 2) This chamber is connected to a spring loadedpressure relief bypass valve (figshy6 3) This valve is designed toopen when the pump pressure exceeds the flow requirements ofthe engine Oil then feeds the main block lower oil gallery to thebearings and splits the flow to the upper oil gallery to the CylinderHead Note that there is a small one way checkshyvalve which keepsthe oil from draining back from the cylinder head while the engineis off (figshy6 4)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 365
While this information is focused on Late Model 18t engines andmany of the examples and photos used here are specifically for theAMB engine type I feel that there is a lot of relevant and usefulinformation which would pertain to other engine modelsBefore we continue I will admit that there is very little newinformation contained within this thread Everything can be foundhere on Audizine and the many many other Audi Volkswagen andcar enthusiast websites Irsquoll link all of the original sources that I canidentify in order to help anyone who is looking for more inshydepthresearch Also while I am citing and referencing a lot of detailedmechanical engineering information I am not a mechanicalengineer My background is in Industrial Engineering andAutomation and Architecture I threw away the physics andengineering text books many years ago If I have included anyinformation which is inaccurate Irsquoll ask that those moreknowledgeable please let me know and Irsquoll be happy to update thispost as often as needed
ONE MORE THING ndash if you are reading this guide because you havean oil pressure warning light while driving and you want answersfast then do yourself a huge favor and stop reading this right nowFind a friend who has one or purchase an oil pressure test gaugeright now Clicky Clicky You cannot diagnose anything withoutknowing your oil system pressure If you went to the doctor for achest pains and he didnrsquot have a stethoscope or asphygmomanometer (The blood pressure tester thing) you wouldlaugh at him Well if you try to get help here or on any reputableforum and you do not have this most vital tool then you are notgoing to get much meaningful help
Section 1 shy Main OilingSystem Components of the18t engine The main engine lubrication components are shown in below (fig 1and 2) Irsquom listing only the key components for those totallyunfamiliar with the engine
Oil Pump Assembly 4Pickup Tube 15Oil Pump Drive Chain 7Oil Pump Chain Tensioner 10
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 465
Filter Housing 24Pressure Relief Bypass Valve 4Oil Cooler 23Oil Filter 21Oil Pressure Switch 17
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 565
Section 2 ndash Understand OilFlow Through the Engine Most Automotive Internal Combustion Engines follow a fairly basicoil flow circuit In General oil passes through a pickup tube strainerinto the pump then through the oil filter and onto the enginevarious engine components which require oil for lubrication and orcooling The 18t engine has a fairly familiar oil circuit diagram (figshy3)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 665
From the pump oil flows up the right front side of the block througha Oslash12mm gallery and then takes a sharp 90deg turn towards the rearof the engine towards the Filter Housing Flange (figshy4) then intothe preshyfiltered chamber within the Oil Filter Housing (figshy6 1)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 765
Within the filter housing oil is channeled to a coupling for the oilcooler where it passes through a small heat exchanger (Oil Cooler)and then into the outside of the oil filter (figshy7) Oil exits the filterinto the center threaded tube and back into the body of the FilterHousing (figshy8)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 865
After passing back into the filter housing oil enters the PostshyFilterchamber (figshy6 2) This chamber is connected to a spring loadedpressure relief bypass valve (figshy6 3) This valve is designed toopen when the pump pressure exceeds the flow requirements ofthe engine Oil then feeds the main block lower oil gallery to thebearings and splits the flow to the upper oil gallery to the CylinderHead Note that there is a small one way checkshyvalve which keepsthe oil from draining back from the cylinder head while the engineis off (figshy6 4)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 465
Filter Housing 24Pressure Relief Bypass Valve 4Oil Cooler 23Oil Filter 21Oil Pressure Switch 17
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 565
Section 2 ndash Understand OilFlow Through the Engine Most Automotive Internal Combustion Engines follow a fairly basicoil flow circuit In General oil passes through a pickup tube strainerinto the pump then through the oil filter and onto the enginevarious engine components which require oil for lubrication and orcooling The 18t engine has a fairly familiar oil circuit diagram (figshy3)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 665
From the pump oil flows up the right front side of the block througha Oslash12mm gallery and then takes a sharp 90deg turn towards the rearof the engine towards the Filter Housing Flange (figshy4) then intothe preshyfiltered chamber within the Oil Filter Housing (figshy6 1)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 765
Within the filter housing oil is channeled to a coupling for the oilcooler where it passes through a small heat exchanger (Oil Cooler)and then into the outside of the oil filter (figshy7) Oil exits the filterinto the center threaded tube and back into the body of the FilterHousing (figshy8)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 865
After passing back into the filter housing oil enters the PostshyFilterchamber (figshy6 2) This chamber is connected to a spring loadedpressure relief bypass valve (figshy6 3) This valve is designed toopen when the pump pressure exceeds the flow requirements ofthe engine Oil then feeds the main block lower oil gallery to thebearings and splits the flow to the upper oil gallery to the CylinderHead Note that there is a small one way checkshyvalve which keepsthe oil from draining back from the cylinder head while the engineis off (figshy6 4)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 565
Section 2 ndash Understand OilFlow Through the Engine Most Automotive Internal Combustion Engines follow a fairly basicoil flow circuit In General oil passes through a pickup tube strainerinto the pump then through the oil filter and onto the enginevarious engine components which require oil for lubrication and orcooling The 18t engine has a fairly familiar oil circuit diagram (figshy3)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 665
From the pump oil flows up the right front side of the block througha Oslash12mm gallery and then takes a sharp 90deg turn towards the rearof the engine towards the Filter Housing Flange (figshy4) then intothe preshyfiltered chamber within the Oil Filter Housing (figshy6 1)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 765
Within the filter housing oil is channeled to a coupling for the oilcooler where it passes through a small heat exchanger (Oil Cooler)and then into the outside of the oil filter (figshy7) Oil exits the filterinto the center threaded tube and back into the body of the FilterHousing (figshy8)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 865
After passing back into the filter housing oil enters the PostshyFilterchamber (figshy6 2) This chamber is connected to a spring loadedpressure relief bypass valve (figshy6 3) This valve is designed toopen when the pump pressure exceeds the flow requirements ofthe engine Oil then feeds the main block lower oil gallery to thebearings and splits the flow to the upper oil gallery to the CylinderHead Note that there is a small one way checkshyvalve which keepsthe oil from draining back from the cylinder head while the engineis off (figshy6 4)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 665
From the pump oil flows up the right front side of the block througha Oslash12mm gallery and then takes a sharp 90deg turn towards the rearof the engine towards the Filter Housing Flange (figshy4) then intothe preshyfiltered chamber within the Oil Filter Housing (figshy6 1)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 765
Within the filter housing oil is channeled to a coupling for the oilcooler where it passes through a small heat exchanger (Oil Cooler)and then into the outside of the oil filter (figshy7) Oil exits the filterinto the center threaded tube and back into the body of the FilterHousing (figshy8)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 865
After passing back into the filter housing oil enters the PostshyFilterchamber (figshy6 2) This chamber is connected to a spring loadedpressure relief bypass valve (figshy6 3) This valve is designed toopen when the pump pressure exceeds the flow requirements ofthe engine Oil then feeds the main block lower oil gallery to thebearings and splits the flow to the upper oil gallery to the CylinderHead Note that there is a small one way checkshyvalve which keepsthe oil from draining back from the cylinder head while the engineis off (figshy6 4)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 765
Within the filter housing oil is channeled to a coupling for the oilcooler where it passes through a small heat exchanger (Oil Cooler)and then into the outside of the oil filter (figshy7) Oil exits the filterinto the center threaded tube and back into the body of the FilterHousing (figshy8)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 865
After passing back into the filter housing oil enters the PostshyFilterchamber (figshy6 2) This chamber is connected to a spring loadedpressure relief bypass valve (figshy6 3) This valve is designed toopen when the pump pressure exceeds the flow requirements ofthe engine Oil then feeds the main block lower oil gallery to thebearings and splits the flow to the upper oil gallery to the CylinderHead Note that there is a small one way checkshyvalve which keepsthe oil from draining back from the cylinder head while the engineis off (figshy6 4)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 865
After passing back into the filter housing oil enters the PostshyFilterchamber (figshy6 2) This chamber is connected to a spring loadedpressure relief bypass valve (figshy6 3) This valve is designed toopen when the pump pressure exceeds the flow requirements ofthe engine Oil then feeds the main block lower oil gallery to thebearings and splits the flow to the upper oil gallery to the CylinderHead Note that there is a small one way checkshyvalve which keepsthe oil from draining back from the cylinder head while the engineis off (figshy6 4)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 965
From the filter housing oil is passed through a Oslash10mm feed line tothe main bearings Oil gallerys are visible along with the return lineswhich feed from the filter housing (figshy5)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1065
Also from the filter housing oil is directed back into the blockthrough a Oslash5mm gallery into the cylinder head where the camshaftjournals lifters camshaft adjuster are fed (figshy9)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1165
Why are there two Pressure Relief Valves Ive tried to find aconcrete answer to this question but to no avail So I really wantedto know which valve has the lower opening pressure rating
I was able to test the force required to open the relief valve on myold pump and it appears that the valve opens between 14shy20 lbsMy test was very unscientific and involved using a bathroom scaleto measure the force but I think they are accurate enough fordiscussion The area of the opening is about 077 in^2 so thistranslates into about 181shy259 psi of oil pressure That amount ofpressure seems to be way too high for normal oil bypass Howeverthere seems to be some evidence that the AWM engines accordingto the Bentley Manual have a bypass valve spec at 12 Bar (174psi) LINK Thats not too far off from my own pump calculationwithin the margin of error of my simply test
By searching various parts databases it appears that the oil pumppart number 06A115105B (Sec 4 Figshy11) is used in Engine typesALZ AVJ BFB BEX AVB AMB and BKE in model years from 1998 thru2006 The filter housing part number 06A115405A (figshy6) is usedon Engine Types AMB AMU APH ATC AUG AWD AWM AWP AWVAWW BEA and BKF in model years from 1994 thru 2014Considering that there are no oil fed components between the reliefvalve within the oil pump and the relief valve within the filterhousing I can only assume that the pump was designed to work onother engines which may not have had a relief valve in the filterhousing Its also possible that valve within the pump is simply afailshysafe for the pump itself oil filter and oil cooler where the relief
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1265
valve in the filter housing is designed to protect the enginecomponents
I have to assume that the relief valve within the filter assemblywould have a lower bypass pressure than the one within the pumpassembly If anyone does have the actual specifications for thebypass valve in the filter housing please post or PM me and Ill citehere If anyone has an old filter housing lying around and candetermine the spring yield force as well as measure the valve pistondiameter we can calculate the approximate bypass spec as well
Continued Page 2
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0230 PM Reason Added shy Why arethere two Pressure Relief Valves
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0949 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from 1
Section 3 shy Understanding thebasic physics of flow andpressure Oil flow through a system like a car engine is governed by someseriously complicated physics way above my pay grade Withoutgoing into much detail itrsquos important to at least know some basicconcepts in order to have a general understanding of how thesystem works
Fluid Viscosity shy Is a direct property of the motor oil typeage temperature and its level of contamination Generalguideline is the lower the viscosity the greater the flow whenholding all other parameters the same
Pump Displacement ndash Mechanical capacity of the pump tomove a specific volume of fluid over a period of time or in thecase of an engine per revolution of the crankshaft LargerPump andor Faster Speed equal higher fluid velocity or flow
Fluid Velocity ndash Simply the speed which a fluid travelsTypical units would be Ftsec or msec From a practicalstandpoint pumps MOVE liquid from one place to another If
2
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1365
you had a large piston that you pushed at a speed of 1msecwithout any resistance the water behind the piston wouldmove at the same speed of 1msec Faster speed=faster fluidvelocity
Fluid Flow ndash Volume of fluid which passes through a givenarea per unit time On a fundamental level Flow (Q) =Velocity (V) x Area (A) x Time (t) For example at 6500rpmthe oil pump moves oil at a rate 961msec at the outlet ofthe pump which is about 12mm diameter (113mm^2) whichequals 1085mm^3sec which can be converted to mlsec andthen 652 Litersmin or 17 gpm (Note Itrsquos easy to think offlow rate in simple terms like the equation above however inthe real world application like a car engine flow is resisted bymany factors including shape of the opening length ofpiping surface roughness turbulence and viscosity)
Pressure ndash Simply put pressure is a specific force dividedover a specific area Again you could write your postshydoctoratedissertation on the study of oil flow and pressure within thevarious parts of the engine To keep things simple rememberthat resistance to flow is what creates pressure in thesystem Although the relationship is not directly proportionalthe chart below illustrates the general relationship betweenEngine Oil Pressure and oil flowresistance to flow (figshy10)You should also be familiar with the basic units or pressuremeasurement Standard SI units of Newtons per Squaremeter (Pascals) 100000 Pascals = 1 Bar which is alsoapproximately 145 psi
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1465
Section 4 shy Oil Pressure andFlow within the Engine How the oil pump works to create flow
The AMB engine and most late model 18t engines use a Geratorstyle oil pump Basically the pump has a 6 tooth gear which rotateseccentrically inside of a 7 tooth internal gear ring (figshy11) For every30deg of pump shaft rotation a cavity is formed between the twogears and the sidewalls of the pump housing Because thecomponents of the oil pump are precision machined and clearancesbetween the teeth of the gears are typically less than 075mm avacuum is created each time a cavity is formed The volume of thiscavity is approximately 2800 mm^3 or 00028 liters As the gearscontinue to rotate the cavity collapses forcing oil to the pumpoutlet
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1565
Click this bar to view the full image
For every revolution of the pump the 7 cavities are formed andcollapsed so the pump displacement per revolution is 0019 litersAlso note that the pump is driven by a chain sprocket from thecrankshaft at 70 of the crankshaft speed So for every revolutionof the crankshaft the theoretical displacement capacity of the pumpis therefore 0014 liters If you multiply this by 6500 rpm our pumptheoretically could move oil at a rate of 891 litersmin
All gearator pumps have a general efficiency rating which is reallygoverned by the amount of leakage (or fluid slip) past the internalpump clearances between the gear teeth and sidewall whichreduce the overall flow Typically this number for a new pump is85 Additionally the density of the fluid being pumped will alsochange the total amount of fluid displacement The fluid density of5w30 at 100dec C is 860 kgm^3 When you take all of this intoaccount a normal pump should be capable of flowing about 65litersmin (figshy12)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1665
It is important to note that Positive Displacement Pumps areldquoconstant flow machinesrdquo that is they will produce the same flow ata given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure This isthe reason that the oil pump has a spring loaded ball relief valve Ifthe flow requirements of the engine are lower than the flow outputof the pump at any given time the additional flow bypasses theengine and is dumped straight back to the oil pan
Typical flow requirements for variousengine components
If you refer back to the Oil Circuit diagram (figshy3) yoursquoll realize therethere are a lot of engine components which consume oil forlubrication and to dissipate heat 65 individual components total
You can see from the chart below (figshy13) that your main bearingsand rod bearings consume almost 50 of your oil pump capacityacross the RPM range It should not be surprising considering thatat 6500 RPM the total angular movement of your 5 main bearingsand 4 rod bearings is about 456 ftsec or over 5 miles in oneminute You need a lot of oil flow to lubricate these bearingssurfaces
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1765
If you look closely you will notice one important detail from thechart data In this example at an engine speed around 3000 rpmthe oil pressure in the system increases to the point where therequired engine flow does not equal the pump flow capacity and atthat point the pressure relief valve on the oil pump begins to openSince the valve is spring loaded the amount of flow which isreturned to the oil pan also increases as the rpmrsquos increase Theflow indicated by the striped red pattern on the upper right is justwasted pump capacity and wasted energy
Why is the system designed for over capacity The simple answer isthat car makers are aware that over time many factors couldinfluence the flow requirements of the system So there is somebuilt in over capacity to account for those factors such as bearingwear pump wear oil viscosity changes extreme temperaturechanges and mechanical failures Since engine journal bearings bydesign only work by maintaining a continuous flowing film of oilbetween the rotating surfaces the oil flow can never be interruptedduring operation
This is a good time to reinforce the main point Maintaining properldquoOIL FLOWrdquo throughout the lubrication system is the single mostimportant element to achieving proper performance and longevity
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1865
from your engine
Oil Pressure within the engine
Now that we understand the flow requirements within the enginewe can take a quick look at how the flow within the engine createspressure within the system (figshy14) In this graph you can see thatoil pressure also increases as engine speed increases Also like thechart above once the pressure relief valve begins to open above3000 rpm the pressures begin to level off and are not proportionalto engine speed
Click this bar to view the full image
Ok so if the above statement is true about pressures leveling offafter the relief valve opens then why does the pressure in the rodbearings continue to increase with engine speed I have to say Ididnrsquot know the answer to this either when I saw this chart and ittook some time to find the information Basically the increase inpressure is caused by the centripetal force generated inside of the
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 1965
crankshaft oil gallery to the rod bearing As crankshaft rotationincreases the outward pushing force on the oil towards the rodbearing also increases
Section 5 shy General Causes ofLow Oil Pressure So now we can focus a bit on Oil Pressure If flow is so importantthen why worry about pressure The main reason is that itrsquos noteasy (cost effective) to measure oil flow within the engine So thecommon approach is to measure system pressure after the oil filter
Think about measuring oil pressure to diagnose engine problems asa doctor might measure blood pressure Since a doctor cannoteasily look into your veins and arteries he relies on some very easyto take measurements usually Pulse and Blood Pressure High orLow blood pressure is usually not the problem itrsquos the underlyingphysiological conditions which are causing the deviation fromnormal blood pressure which is the real problem Since a heart is atype of positive displacement pump high blood pressure can be asymptom of some increased resistance to proper blood flow withinthe body
Getting back to our engine high oil pressure is not really a problemin that the design of the system includes a relief bypass valve tobleed off this excess pressure as needed However low oil pressureis a symptom of a problem that needs to be addressed
Hopefully by now the relationship between flow (resistance to flow)and pressure is clear If we look at each variable individually andisolate all other factors we can discuss all of the factors whichreduce flow or increase resistance and subsequently reduce systempressure Irsquove tried to list these in order of the most common andeasiest to check
Low Oil Level ndash Pretty simple if the oil level drops below thepickup tube the pump will suck in air and the flow of oil will bereduced If your engine is equipped with a level sensor and itsworking correctly you should already know this is a problem
Incorrect Oil Weight ndash Using an oil with a lower viscositythan the system was designed for will increase flow butreduce backpressure Sounds good so why not simply runlower viscosity oil You can find some very well writteninformation about this on the BITOG website and Irecommend reading the full article when you have time LINK
Oil Viscosity Too Low ndash In addition to using the wrong orlower viscosity oil as noted above oil viscosity can changeover the life of the oil Contaminants such as fuel and watersoot or intentionally adding oil treatments to the sump canlower viscosity Additionally the longer oil is run its viscositywill be reduced as sheering forces breaking down oilmolecules
High Oil Temperature ndash Pretty basic but to be complete
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2065
letrsquos just reiterate that oil viscosity decreases as temperatureincreases (figshy15) If you look closely you will see theintersection on the graph for 5w40 motor oil at operatingtemperature If your engine is running 15 degrees hotter(which is likely an entirely different problem) you oil viscosityis equivalent to 5w30 motor oil
Click this bar to view the full image
Incorrect Oil Filter ndash The 18T oil filter has a standardfrac34shy20UNC threaded boss There are thousands of filters onthe shelf that would fit the housing but the flow capacity andbypass valve specifications may be significantly different thanthe correct oil filter (figshy16) Using a filter with a higherbypass (or no bypass) and or a smaller filter element canreduce flow through the filter Pressure before the filter wouldbe higher but flow and pressure after the filter would belower In the photo below Im showing a Motorcraft filter next
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2165
to the Mann W9504 Do not use the Motorcraft filterHowever the Mann W9504 is an excellent filter It has thecorrect bypass rating required for 18t and because of its sizeit adds about 12 qt more oil to the engine capacity whichwill increase useful oil life in the engine
When choosing a filter keep these specifications in mind Thecorrect oil filter should have a particle filtration rating of 21micron bypass pressure rating of 2 to 25 bar (29shy36 psi)flow capacity of 26 to 35 lmin (7shy9 gpm)
Malfunctioning Crankcase Ventilation System ndash Thecrankcase ventilation system in modern engines is rathercomplex and the 18t engines have a rather convoluted andcomplex system comprised of over a hundred pipes hosescheck valves ect Without going into extensive detail herethe system is designed to direct combustion gasses which areblown by the piston rings and into the crankcase back intothe intake system to be burned off A normally workingsystem will have slight fluctuations between pressure andvacuum which can impact oil pressure by a few psi Ascrankcase pressure increases this air pressure pushes downon the oil in the pan increasing pressure into the pump Thisis no big deal as a little extra psi of oil pressure isnrsquot going tohurt anything When there is slight vacuum pressure in thecrankcase this force sucks against the pump suction and mayslightly lower oil pressure The problem can occur if either thispositive or vacuum pressure is excessive Consider thatvacuum of 28 inhg would be equivalent to a reduction in oilpressure of about 14psi which is not insignificant Here is agreat real world example of a forum member troubleshootingthis exact problem LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2265
Clogged Oil Pickup Screen ndash Most engine oil pumps have ametal tube with a screen attached to the open end Thisscreen is designed to keep larger particles about 5mm diafrom entering the oil pump The 18t pickup screen is conicalin shape and has an area about 1760mm^2 Thatrsquos about 15times larger than the main oil gallery coming from the pumpinto the block So the system is designed to have a lot ofexcess flow capacity However even with that excess capacitythere are very specific reasons why the pickup screens on18t engines are prone to clogging (figshy17) More on this topiclater in the troubleshooting section The main issue with aclogged pickup screen is that you may not see a seriouspressure drop at lower rpms but at higher rpms the enginemay be starved for oil However in this rpm range you wouldnot necessary trigger a pressure warning At higher rpmranges the pump may try to draw more oil than then canpass through the clogged screen In the most serious casesas the pump cavity forms the pressure inside of the chamberdrops to a point where the oil actually boils this is calledCavitation LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2365
Oil Pump Failure ndash Considering the simplicity of the Geratoroil pump failures are rare Over time the clearance betweenthe gear teeth and the clearance between the pump sidewallswill increase which will allow oil to slip past the pump cavitiesthus reducing its efficiency and subsequent flow Thiscondition could be accelerated if oil is heavily contaminatedwith metal particles from engine damage oil filter operatingin bypass or extended oil change intervals (figshy18shy19) Thereductions in pressure would be gradual As noted previouslypump wear can be accelerated due to cavitation as the smallmicroscopic bubbles form in the pump chamber and quicklycollapse The forces are strong enough however to breakdown the surface of the pump gears and walls which causespump wear Mechanical failures could also occur such asbroken chain sprocket or sprocket key but these seem to beextremely rare
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2465
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2565
Excessive Bearing Wear ndash If you have no knowledge abouthow engine bearings work take a minute and read theinterweb Here is a brief starter LINK The key thing to knowis that engine bearings operate in a Hydrodynamic lubricationcondition Which means that a thin film or oil separates therotating crankshaft from the bearing surface Engine forceslike the force of combustion pressure which are typically 550shy650 psi push on the rods and the crankshaft with over 6500lbs of force The only thing that keeps the bearing surface ofhe rod bearing from smashing into the crankshaft bearingjournal every engine rotation is this thin film of oil
What maintains that thin film of oil is a constant flow fromthe pump In a properly working engine as the crankjournals rotate oil is forced from he bearing cavity but moreoil is ready to fill the void immediately If there is enough flowand pressure the bearing surface should never touch thecrank
As with oil pump wear wear is something that normally
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2665
occurs gradually over time Most wear (perhaps 90) occursduring the first few minutes of engine startshyup when thebearing journals come into contact with the bearings beforethe oil is up to proper temperature (ie viscosity) Even thebest cared for engines will be subject to progressive wear Asthe clearance between the bearings and the journalsincreases the restrictions to flow decrease and so does thepressure While the main bearings are usually the first to gorod cam and even turbo bearings can wear and reduceoverall system pressure What is interesting to note is thatincreased wear reduces flow which further accelerates wearEventually reduce the flow the point where the bearing istotally destroyed (figshy20shy21) LINK LINK
Click this bar to view the full image
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2765
Mechanical Engine Malfunction or Damage ndash Anyelement within the lubrication circuit can be broken ordamaged and result in reduce system pressure A damagedcam adjuster or broken turbo thrust bearing would likelypresent other more obvious problems but they can none theless reduce flow and cause a low pressure situation Whilealso rare the pressure relief bypass valves in the oil pump andfilter housing or even a piston oil jet could get stuck in anopen or partially open position which would drastically reducesystem pressure at the lower engine speeds
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy It is rather unlikelythat the main oil supply passages could be clogged but itcould happen to a severely abused engine subjected to longoil change intervals Also there is one large drain tubethrough the cylinder head and block which drains back intothe filter housing You can see this in section 1 (figshy4) Thesize of this tube is sufficiently large enough where is should
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2865
not impede the return flow of oil from the head but again ifthe engine has significant sludge buildup it could If oilpumped to the cylinder head cannot drain back fast enoughthen the oil level in the pan can drop below the pickup tubeand allow the pump to draw in air which will further reduce oilflow
When trying to isolate the causes of low oil pressure and looking atthis list itrsquos also important to note that many of these factors areinterrelated such as oil temperature and viscosity Also itrsquos verypossible that an engine may have several causes of varying degreeswhich individually may not cause system pressure to fall belowrequired levels but combined have that result
Section 6 ndash How the OilPressure Warning SystemWorks Before we move on I need to say that this topic has beenextensively and at time painstakingly explained many many timeshere on the Audizine forums This section is really a copy and pasteof some of those previous posts Here are a few that I found andused when trying to diagnose my warning light problem Thanks towalkey_talkey20 for explaining this many times LINK LINK LINKLINK
The B5B6 18t engines are equipped with a simple pressure switchconnected to the oil filter housing after the filter Refer back to (figshy217 and figshy7) The pressure sensor is a simply switch which isnormally open When the pressure reaches approximately 23psi theelectrical contacts within the switch will close One signal wire fromthe switch to the Instrument Cluster completes the monitoringcircuit to ground when the switch is closed
The oil pressure warning is triggered under certain conditions TheInstrument Cluster will signal a low pressure warning if any of thefollowing conditions occur The warning indicator on the dash willshow a RED Oil Can (figshy22) and you will hear three long beepsThis is not to be confused with the yellow sensor warning alsoshown which is indicative of an oil level sensor failure and hasnothing to do with the oil pressure
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 2965
Condition 1 shy If the switch is closed with the engine offa warning will be triggered
This warning is designed to let the operator know thatthe switch is damaged in that it is remaining in theclosed position while no pressure is actually present orthe wire connecting the switch to the Gauge Cluster isshorting to ground This type of switch failure can beconfirmed by removing the switch and using an Ohmmeter or continuity tester If there is continuitybetween the switch connector prong and the threadedend of the sensor then the switch has failed
Condition 2 shy If the coolant temperature is below 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 300 RPM ANDthe oil pressure switch is open
This warning is designed to indicate that extremely lowor no pressure exists while the engine is running Ahealthy engine should have oil pressures well abovethe switch trigger limit of 14 to 16 bar (203shy232psi) Note 70shy100 PSI are common during startup Adisconnected switch defective switch or broken wire tothe Instrument Cluster would trigger this type ofwarning
Condition 3 shy If the coolant temperature is above 60ordmC AND the engine speed is greater than 1500 RPM ANDthe switch is open for more than frac12 Second
This warning condition is designed to alert the driverthat the pressure is too low during normal operatingconditions At 1500 RPM a healthy engine should becreating at least 30 PSI at 1500 RPM If this specificcondition occurs more than 3 times during continuousoperation when warning will continue to stay active atany RPM
Its important to note that if you receive the warning lightwhile driving and your engine speed is over 1500 rpm(Condition 3) you should consider this a serious situationIt is highly recommended that you stop the car safely andimmediately and not drive it Based on the repair history ofthis model and VolkswagenAudi Recalls for engine sludgeproblems there is a strong likelihood that your engineindeed does have low oil pressure and this is not simply abroken wire or failing switch While many people like
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3065
myself have no idea what the warning means the first timethey see it and do continue to drive you are risking causingmore serious and permanent damage by doing so
One more important warning It is common for the pressurewarning to come on between 1500shy1800 rem where the pressureis operating close to the warning threshold However if you havethe warning light while driving at highway speeds 2500 rpm orabove then this means you engine is only pressure is droppingbelow switch threshold 17shy23 psi when you should have about40+ THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS CONDITION which if you continueto drive there is a very strong likelihood that you WILL causepermanent bearing damage
Before we move on the the next section it is very important to notethat the Oil Pressure Warning is NOT the problem it is the symptomof an underlying engine problem
Continued on 3
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy31shy2014 at 0331 PM
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 2
Section 7 shy Oil PressureTesting and Specifications forthe 18t (AMB)
So You Have Decided to Test Your OilPressure
Good Hopefully by now you have received or borrowed an oilpressure test gauge kit Amazon Ebay Harbor Freight are all goodplaces to find one Some auto parts stores will rent them as wellThe key thing you have to check is to make sure the kit has thecorrect metric M10x1 adaptor I recommend getting one with atleast 6 ft of hose I think itrsquos important to also test your pressurewhile driving and you wonrsquot be able to do that if your tester does
3
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3165
not have a long enough hose
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3265
In addition to the pressure gauge and you basic set of wrenchesand sockets you are going to need a 27mm socket to remove theoil pressure switch from the filter housing It can be done with anadjustable or open end wrench but itrsquos a tight space around there
Factory Oil Pressure Specifications
At this point before testing anything you need to know the properpressure specifications
Oil (not coolant) must be at normal operatingtemperature 80degC
Pressure at idling speed should be a minimum of 10bar (145psi)
Pressure at 3000 RPM should be between 35 to 45bar (50 to 65psi)
Setting up the Test Gauge
If you are totally unfamiliar with your engine hooking upthe test gauge is about as difficult as changing spark plugs
The oil pressure switch is located on the driverrsquos side of theengine Remove the coolant reservoir and tilt it out of theway Be carefully not to break the wire connecting thecoolant sensor You can unplug this if needed (figshy25)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3365
Itrsquos difficult to snap a photo of the switch because itrsquosobscured by some breather hoses but itrsquos located on the rightside of the filter housing facing the fire wall (figshy26) Therewill be a single wire connector attached to it
Click this bar to view the full image
Refer back to our diagram (figshy217) of the filter housingassembly and you are having trouble finding the switch Alsocheck out figure 7 as well You can see the switch attached tothe side in the photo
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3465
You will need to remove the electrical connector Just like allof the Audi connector you will need a small flat headscrewdriver to apply some force to the clip tab on theconnector There is not a lot of room and you cannot easilysee the switch so the first time you try this itrsquos takes a fewminutes
After the connector is removed use your 27mm socket tounthread the pressure switch Have a small bucket or somerags ready because some oil will leak out
With the switch removed now look at the fittings that camewith your pressure test gauge setup Find the one whichlooks like the threads on the pressure switch By hand test fitthis adaptor into the side of the filter housing You should beable to thread this in without any resistance The fitting onthe housing is a NONshyTapered thread If you use thewrong fitting for the test you will permanently damageyour filter housing and you will NOT be able to putyour original pressure switch back when your test iscomplete
Remove the fitting ant attach it to your gauge hose Thenthread the hose and fitting back into the filter housing Use awrench to tighten the fitting snug You do not need to applycrazy torque here but it should be tight enough to limit theamount of oil leakage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3565
Conducting the Test
Before staring up the engine make sure you are in a wellshyventilated place to work You will need to rev the engine quitea bit during the testing so you want to avoid poisoningyourself with carbonshymonoxide
Also before starting you should know that since your pressureswitch is now disconnected in order to conduct the test youwill receive the Oil Pressure Warning during the actual testJust ignore it (this time)
Start the engine and check to make sure there are noobvious leaks from the filter housing or the hose assembly Ifeverything is connected correctly you should see a pressurereading on the gauge If the engine is cold this might be 50shy80psi Thatrsquos normal and basically meaningless at this point
You will need to get the engine to operating temperature Thetest specifications say that the oil temperature needs to beabove 80deg C If you do not have a way of checking thetemperature accurately I suggest letting the temperaturegauge reach normal center position and then let the engineidle for 10 more minutes on a normal spring or summer dayor longer in the winter
If you monitor the gauge while the engine is warming up youshould see the pressure gradually fall as the oil heats up Thisis also normal and basically meaningless at this point as well
Now once you are sure the engine is over 80deg C you can startrecording pressure readings
Make a table like this one to keep track of your results (figshy26)
First record the pressure at idle Then increase the enginespeed to 1000 rpm and record the result do the same for2000 rpm and 3000 rpm DONrsquoT go to 4K or above yet (figshy27)
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3665
Compare your results to the pressure specifications If youare at or above the minimum required pressures for the testto 3000 rpm itrsquos probably safe to test 4000 rpm and 6000rpm However if you find that you are not meeting theminimum pressure at 50psi at 3000 rpm there is really nopoint in going any further as you could risk further damagingyour engine
Repeat the test from idle to 4K again You should find thatyour readings have dropped slightly from the first test andagain this is normal as the engine may not have been fully upto temp These are the readings that count If itrsquos safe to test4000 rpm to 6000 rpm do so Just remember DO NOT holdthe engine at those high speeds for more than a second ortwo max
If you find your pressure readings are marginal or just abovethe minimum it may be a good idea to test the pressure whiledriving Yoursquoll need someone to record the readings donrsquot trydriving and writing while holding your gauge at the sametime What you may find is that your pressure readings differsignificantly from your readings while parked Thisinformation is important
If your test results show that your oil pressure is above specthen try to recreate the conditions when you received theactual oil pressure warning as well For example if you werestuck in bumper to bumper traffic and you got the warningwhen moving slowly try to create that exact situation andnote the pressure Remember you are looking to confirm thatyour pressure is falling below the warning threshold and thatcould help explain the conditions causing the warning
Continued on Page 4
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3765
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy13shy2014 at 0604 PM Reason photos
Reply With Quote
08shy08shy2014 0950 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from page 3
Section 8 shy Diagnosing andTroubleshooting Oil PressureProblems Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Before we start digging into your car we need a little history lesson
Why does it seem that some 18t seriesmotors seem so prone to oil pressureproblems
The 18t engine block that we see in B5 and B6 models has itsroots going back to the original 18 nonshyturbo models from the mid1980rsquos In 1997 the first North American 18t model was the AEBengine These were followed by the AWM and AMB models through2005 For the most part this engine design proved to be mostreliable and very well designed in many ways The standard OilChange interval recommended by Audi was every 5000 milesLINK
Starting around 2001 Audi dealers in North American (and CanadaI believe) began to offer CareshyPlus which was a service that new carbuyers could pay for and it would cover all regular maintenanceitems including Oil Changes In 2002 the oil change serviceinterval in the ownerrsquos manual was changed to 10000 miles LINK(Some people presume to keep the service cost down) However itrsquosimportant to note that around the same time other manufacturerswere also recommending extended oil change intervals to be moreenvironmentally conscious
After a few years it became apparent that a high number of 18towners with longitudinally mounted engines in cars from 2001shy2004 began reporting oil pressure warnings to dealers It takes awhile for engineers and statisticians to make sense of these repair
4
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3865
trends but eventually patterns emerge Someone figured out that acombination of factors was causing these engines to fail The killerwas sludge
Turbocharged engines can generate a lot of heat near thecompressor turbine The turbo shaft bearing is a mere frac14rdquo awayfrom 900deg temperatures When turbo charged engines are drivenhard itrsquos possible for the oil within the turbo to heat up to a pointwhere it begins to breakdown and forms solid particles This isespecially true if an engine is shut down before the turbo can cooldown the oil in the turbocharger cooks and crystallizes This cookedoil forms large particles which pass down into the sump and arethen sucked into the pickup tube
Coincidentally the longitudinally mounted 18t engines in the B5shyB6models had a smaller oil pan than their technically similartransverse mounted cousins This smaller oil capacity made theengine more susceptible to overheating and sludge Finally thestraw that broke the camelrsquos back happened when Audi changedthe oil change interval from 5K to 10K This exacerbated theproblem significantly Combine this with the use of dinoshyoils shorttripcity driving and the rest is history And so were a lot of 18tengines
In August of 2004 Audi agreed to settle a class action lawsuit whichextended the engine warranty to 8 years (unlimited miles) forsludge related damages (figshy29)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 3965
They also released in August 2004 Service Bulletin 170403 todealers explaining what to do with customers reporting oil pressurewarnings This included the inspection repair and even enginereplacement procedures This Service Bulletin was revised on 2008to also include procedures to flush (deshysludge) engines which hadnot yet experienced bearing damage (see link in section 9)
Where to Start
The least expensive thing you can do to help diagnose you problemis know the repair history of your car If you are the original ownerthen this will be easy If not then you could try to find out theanswers which could help rule out potential problems If you arefriendly with any Audi service techrsquos try to ask them to lookshyup yourvehicle service history Some will be cool and give you a lot ofinformation others will not give you the time of day At a minimumtry see if you can determine if your car ever had a sludge cleaningby the dealer and if so how many miles ago If you find a helpfultech you may be able to find out if the oil pump or filter housinghave been replaced Who knows your car may have even had theengine replaced
Identify Patterns which Cause the LowPressure Warning
Obviously if the warning is occurring very often it may be too latebut if your warning light seems to be very infrequent chances areyou are just beginning to approach the conditions where yourengine could suffer serious damage and it may not be too late tosave it from serious damage
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4065
Try to remember or even record the state of operation when thewarnings occur
Light acceleration at low RPMHeavy acceleration or high RPMOnly on hot daysCoastingDuring Engine Breaking
Then try to reproduce the warning In my own case I realized that Ionly got a warning when driving slowly like in a parking lot Usuallyit occurred right after a period of acceleration then taking my footof the gas for a split second and then gently accelerating againEventually I was able to recreate the conditions with a gaugeconnected I drove around a empty parking lot with one foot on thegas and on the brake until I discovered if I revved to around 2200then dropped back to 1000 and back up to around 1700 thepressure would lag around 18 psi for a split sec which was enoughto trigger the warning
Troubleshooting Round 1
Troubleshooting oil pressure related problems can be challenging asthere are so many components which could potentially impact oilpressure itrsquos simply not always possible to immediately pinpoint thesource of the problem Worse yet on older engines you may bedealing with several contributing factors causing low pressure Thebest place to start is by ruling out the easiest and least expensiveitems first Doing all of these first four items will cost less than $75
Change your oil shy If you have not changed your oil in awhile start with some good quality synthetic 5w40 or 0w40VAG approved oil (Herersquos the list LINK) Im sure some of youare just thinking why not dump thicker 15w50 oil in the carWell get to this a bit later but for now DO NOT change youroil to a heavier weight Stick with approved oils
Choose a high quality oil filter shy MANN 94025 is anexcellent filter LINK So is the MANN 9504 as noted above(figshy16) LINK I found that during my own test there wasabout a 1 psi increase in postshyfilter pressure after switching tothe much larger Mann Filter While I dont know the physicsbehind the change I can only assume that the much largerfilter area reduced the pressure loss across the filter mediaThe other point is that using my hand held gauge there isnow way to know for sure if there was any real increase as 1psi can easily be within the margin of error for the gaugeOne thing for sure is that a higher quality and larger surelycannot hurt
Send out a sample of your old oil for a UOA shy UOA =
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4165
Used Oil Analysis Ive personally used Blackstone Labs LINKbut there are other companies out there You may learnsome key details from the analysis which could impact oilpressure as you compare your sample data against the datafrom thousands of samples for the same engine (figshy31) Forexample High levels of fuel dilution in your oil would reduceviscosity High Copper Tin or Aluminum levels could indicateexcessive bearing wear You can read more about UOAs andhow to interpret the results here LINK
Test or replace your pressure switch shy Obviously if youhave already measured low pressure this is not going to doyou any good However if your pressure is good it may be theswitch If you have a small pressure regulator or leak downtest kit and a electrical multishymeter or continuity tester youcan rig up your own switch test (figshy31b)
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4265
This photo is a test of my original pressure switch which Ireplaced However for this discussion I went back to test itjust to see how it worked After connecting it to the gaugeand slowly increasing the air pressure the switch closed atexactly 20 psi I repeated the test several times with exactlythe same readings
While failures are rare they do happen from time to time andthe part is fairly inexpensive so its easy to rule it out as aproblem PN 06A919081J There are OEM models for lessthan $800 There are other very similar looking switcheswhich operate at different pressures There are suposed to becolor coded so be sure you get the correct model
Troubleshooting Round 2
This next round of troubleshooting is going to require a littlewrenching Everything here can be tackled with a small toolbox andsome basic repair knowledge
Check your Crankcase Ventilation System ndash You can
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4365
disassemble many of the parts and simply clean them outbut if you engine is old it may be faster and easier to switchto the 034 Silicone Kit for $99 LINK A properly workingbreather system is going to make our car run better overallso you may consider this money well spent since it canimprove performance and rule out one more potential sourceof oil pressure problems
Its also important to note that if you have excessively highcrankcase pressures from piston ring wear and blowshyby youcan be masking actual low oil pressure problems in otherareas One way to confirm this would be to test you oilpressure with the oil fill cap both on and off at severaldifferent rpm speeds A normal working engine would recordno difference with the cap on or off However if you pressuredoes drop with the cap off then you should assume you haveother internal engine issues to eventually address
Inspect cam bearing cap(s) shy If you did check out he linkto the Audi service bulletin above you would notice that theprocedure to determine if an engine was salvageable orshould be replaced under warranty was to remove the fontshymost cam bearing caps and look for signs of oil starvationHere is the example again from section 5 above
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4465
Why choose this one
Well the front exhaust cam bearing cap closet to the timingbelt is actually the farthest component away from the oilpump in the engine oil circuit So if you are having anyserious low pressureflow conditions your front cam bearingswill begin to show signs of oil starvation and potentially failbefore any of the other components You will need to removethe valve cover so be prepared to replace the gasket if ithasnt been done recently If you do find signs of oilstarvation then you have 100 confirmed that low oilflowpressure is occurring or has occurred within your engineUnfortunately there is no way to repair cam bearing damagethe only repair option is to replace the head However beforedeciding to spend that money you are going to need toassess if you have main or rod bearing damage too beforedeciding to replace the head
Clogged or Blocked Oil Passages shy Well while you have
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4565
the valve cover off take a minute to look around inside thereSo you see any oil sludge Im not taking about a light film ofblack crud stuck to the underside of the Valve Cover this isvery common on engines with a lot of miles Look actually onthe top of the head around he lifters and bearing caps If yousee some goo with the consistency of fudge then you likelyhave and oil sludged engine (figshy32) Assume that whatevercrud is on the top end is also sitting in your oil pan filterhousing and everywhere else in the engine However do notconclude that if the top end is clean so must the bottom endbe cleaned
Click this bar to view the full image
I highly recommend watching this video from the guys atEdge Motors where the show how they clean out a sludgedengine LINK
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4665
Mechanical Engine Malfunction shy This one is a littletougher to pin down but lets cover the obvious things Forexample if you know your turbo is dying or your cam adjusteris rattling like crazy these mechanical issues Could beimpacting your oil pressure Here is an example of a dyingturbo with a blown oil shield oil retaining ring and worn shaftwhich was blowing oil into the exhaust and at the same timelikely blowing hot exhaust gasses into the oil flow
Click this bar to view the full image
If you dont already have one I recommend spending a fewbucks on a magnetic drain plug It may not provide you withany immediate clues but in my case it eventually helped meconfirm that something had gone wrong inside if my engineand that was what finally pushed me to take the next step(figshy33b) I never found out conclusively where the metalfragments came from nor do I know if the damage camefrom low oil pressure or was responsible for damage whichcaused low oil pressure What I did know was that somethingwas in my oil that wasnt supposed to be there
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4765
Troubleshooting Round 3
Ok youve checked everything else and you still havent found thecause of the low pressure At this point be prepared to get yourhands dirty or pay someone else to do it Everything else left tocheck is inside of the oil pan Unfortunately getting inside there toinspect anything is a bit involved I personally did not want to tacklethis myself even as all signs were pointing me in the direction of aclogged pickup tube I had the work priced out by a local Euro repairguy who quoted me $600 plus parts which after doing myself Irealized was a fair price Yet still I didnt want to spend the moneyor do the work I tried just about everything else I could think oflike flushing the engine adding cleaning products to the oil takingoff the oil level sensor to try and see inside of the pan (waste oftime BTW) but in the end I realized that if I wanted to properlydiagnose my problem I needed to get to the bottom of things Inthis case it means the bottom of the engine
Clogged Pickup Screen shy So we mentioned earlier that thepickup tube and screen assembly is designed to have about15 times the open area as the main oil passage to the filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4865
housing Its totally normal for the screen to pick up small bitsof broken plastic from the cam adjuster oil chain tensionerdipstick tube as well as any other larger contaminants If youlook at the graph below (figshy34) and compare the amount ofoil flow reduction as the screen becomes clogged to theengine flow requirements from Section 2 you will see whatshappening here At 6500 rpm the absolute minimum flowrequired is 50 lmin When the screen is clogged about 90you would still be able to flow 50 lmin So you can concludethat even with a screen 90 clogged you can normallysupply your engine with enough oil flow to run properlyHowever the pumps suction capacity is still higher than 50lmin so with a 90 clog rate at higher rpm ranges theengine pressure may not be impacted but the pump canbegin to cavitate as it attempts to draw more flow than thescreen is capable of passing This would begin to cause wearon the pump
Now look at the flow requirements over the entire rpm range(figshy35) You can see that at 95 screen blockage the maxflow drops to about 25 lm So at this level of blockage theengine may see enough oil at idle or even up to 2500 rpmwhich is still above the warning threshold however flow willstart to max out at 2500 rpm At this point the pump willcavitate and the pressure will simply not increase at a linearrate or significantly at all
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 4965
So even before removing the oil pan you may be able todetermine if your pickup screen is clogged by carefullyobserving your oil pressure across the rpm range If pressureis good at idle and lower rpm ranges but reaches a plateaubetween 3500 to 5000 rpm you could look more seriously atthe pickup tube as a source of low pressure I would like topoint out that the physics behind liquid flow through a screenare also quite involved I do not have the background orexperience to calculate the exact effects I did do some quickresearch to come up with a reasonable factor to use whencalculating the flow So please do not simply assume that ifyour screen only 70 clogged things will be fine Just knowthat you lose flow as the screen clogs and at some point youmay begin to cause excessive wear on the pump even beforeany other signs of low pressure occur
The best (and most direct) way to inspect the pickup tube isto drop the oil pan It is quite a bit more involved andobviously not for everyone but its the only sure way toassess whats going on down there Heres a link to a recentwriteshyup on how to do that LINK Also the video from EdgeMotors linked above also shows how to drop the pan
I have read on other car forums where people have used aflexible USB camera scope like this LINK to inspect internalparts of the engine I have one that I used to inspect myintake valves on another car It comes with a 90deg Mirroradapter for the end I am sure that you can feed the camerainto the oil drain hole The pickup tube is just above the drainhole The quality of the images is very low resolution but ifhe debris are significant they you should be able to see themin the camera The next time I change my oil I will attemptto take some photos and post them here
Oil Pump Failure shy As stated before oil pumps are verysimple machines and in general are not prone to failureHowever they can wear out over time As the clearancebetween the gears increases the pump flow capacitydecreases You can use a simple feeler gauge to measure theclearance (figshy36) I can give you my own example After
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5065
165000 miles I removed and inspected my own oil pumpand there as a clearance between the gears of 0101 to0120mm I compared these numbers to my brand newpump which measured 076mm I also rigged up a pressuretest and compared both pumps under the same conditionsThe new pump produced 30 higher pressure than the oldpump You can check out this test here LINK
(Disclaimer I have no way of knowing how my simple testequates to actual engine pressure the purpose was to simplysee if there was any difference between my pump with165000 miles and a new one)
One thing to note is that while a pump failure is very rarereplacing the pump is actually very easy once you have theoil pan off The cost of the pump is around $110 for agenuine Audi replacement LINK If you are going through allof the trouble to drop the oil pan inspect or replace the pickuptube you should seriously consider replacing the oil pump Ipersonally made this mistake and did not replace the pumpthe first time I dropped the pan After I got everything backtogether I regretted that oversight as soon as I realized howmuch time went into getting the pan off Unless you are on avery tight repair budget keep this in mind
Excessive Bearing Wear shy
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5165
The 18t main bearings are designed to have between002mm and 004mm clearance within a new engine and theAudi spec allows for up to 0055mm max clearance
As we mentioned before bearings are designed to wear overtime They are softer than the crank and made from lowfriction materials When the crankshaft touches the bearingduring startshyup and sometimes briefly during heavy changesin acceleration or engine braking microscopic bits of metalare scraped away from the bearing surface
There are some fairly complex formulas which are used topredict the amount of flow required for a journal bearing (figshy39) However for our purposes suffice it to say that as thegap between the bearing and the crankshaft widens there willbe less resistance to flow As this resistance decreases ahigher volume of oil will need to flow through the bearing inorder to provide the same load capacity As the flow increasesthe pressure drops as less oil is available to fill the largerspace
This chart shows data from a hypothetical bearing conditionYou can see the relationship between the bearing clearanceflow and pressure required to maintain a fixed flow rate Whatis striking is how quickly the pressure drops off as theclearance widens
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5265
So if you have exhausted all other troubleshooting avenues itmay be time to check the clearance of your main and rodbearings At this point in order to get to the bottom of your oilpressure problem you are going to need to get into thebottom of your engine If yoursquove removed your oil pan letrsquosassume you are fairly handy with a torque wrench and knowyour way around the engine However consider thatremoving the bearing caps and reinstalling them without theproper guide can result in SERIOUS PERMANENT DAMAGE TOYOUR ENGINE
However before removing anything just look around at thebearing caps If you see any metal flakes or shavings stuck tothe crank or wedged between the cap and crank then youmay be seeing pieces of deteriorating bearings Also try towiggle the rod ends You should NOT be able to feel 050mmof clearance So if there is any radial play then you have aproblem
If you are confidant in your abilities then just make sure youhave a set of 6 point frac12rdquo drive sockets and a high quality frac12rdquodrive torque wrench With the removed you will be able toremove the caps on all rod bearings and main bearings 1 thru4 The 5 cap may be able to be removed but I donrsquot thinkyou can fit a socket on properly with the ream main sealattached You need to know that the main bearing cap androd bolts are single use TTY If you remove them to inspectany bearings you will need replacements You can pick themup form ECS and others for about $3shy$4 each So expect tospend about $50 to inspect your bearings
Here are two examples from my engine The first photo (figshy41) shows the 1 main bearing and crank journal Thischecked out with 0055mm clearance
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5365
This photo shows the 3 main bearing and journal Itrsquosobvious that the bearing damage is so severe that oil wouldhave had very little resistance here and would have flowing ata very high rate which would have reduced the available flowand pressure to the rest of the lubrication system Yet for asbad as this looks the overall system pressure was holding atabout 125 psi for quite a long time
Click this bar to view the full image
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5465
In the end the motor had to be pulled All of the lower endbearings seals and crank were replaced This engine survivedhellipWersquoll just need to see for how longhellip
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5565
Continued on Page 5
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0558 PM Reason Added pressureswitch troubleshooting and photo
Reply With Quote
08shy10shy2014 0556 AM
Great thread I remember that light and the feeling
5
Join Date Jan 31 2009
BerNur
Veteran MemberThree Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5665
AZ Member Location
38122Brandon FL
Astoria NYItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
08shy11shy2014 0108 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
I like thisChanged my oil pump recently slight wear no oil light but a brandnew CCT was ticking It fixed my problem and havent heard thedreaded diesel sound as my friends called it since then
6
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Nov 04 2012103464
2000 Audi B5A4 18TQM 1995 Audi C4 A628Q 1998 B5 A4 28QM(Seized Engine)
RenoItems for Sale
RENOxDECEPTION
Senior MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2000 Audi A4 B5 18TQM ATW Performance Mods K04 S4 RA4 Full Face shy 240mm ECS LWFW (CustomMachining) Test Pipe SAIP Delete(Parts for sale) R8 Coilpacks 034 StreetMounts APR SnubSuspensionWheelBraking Lucas HP2 Brakes Bilstein Sport Shocks NeuspeedSprings Stabila Corse 22mm RSB (OOC) 19 B7 RS4 Reps A6 Strut Tower BraceLighting Mini H1 BishyXenon Projectors Jetta Projection Fogs
Imgur
Reply With Quote
08shy13shy2014 0845 PM
18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
Continued from Page 4
Section 9 shy AdditionalInformation and WrapshyUp[Time to Wrench]Hopefully this information has helped to enlighten you about howyour engine lubrication system works how to identify lubricationproblems and perhaps even fix them yourself If you are not aDIY person at the very least you should be able to have ameaningful and intelligent conversation with other forum members
7
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5765
as well as your mechanic If you are the DIY type than I really dohope you are able to bring your car back to life and keep it runningfor a very long time The B6 is a great car and I really enjoy drivingmine which is all bone stock
Hindsight is always 2020
I would like to say that after wrestling with the low oil pressureproblem for over a year I would like to reflect on some of the thingsI did wrong and what I would have done differently had I knownbetter
First after I brought the car I could have taken it back to the sellerafter a few days He explained that if I was dissatisfied for anyreason If Im ever in a situation like this again the first thing Iwould do when I get home is a compression test leakshydown testand oil pressure test In my case I would have known right awaythe baseline condition of the engine Had I done this I might havetaken the car back and purchased a better A4 Lets call this Mistake1
I should have taken the car to the dealer where it was purchasedand serviced for 9 years and introduced myself as the new owner Iwould have paid for an oil and filter change and asked them theiropinion on the car Knowing that they would likely want to sell meas much of their service time as possible I would have tried to getas much service history from them as I could Im sure they wouldhave looked in the computer and gladly stated Hey did you knowthat you car is due for a timing belt service Can we give you anestimate I would have said Sure You guys are great what else isit due for I eventually got some of this information but I think itwould have been easier to do it right way
After the first time I got the Pressure Warning I called a local tech Icould hear in his voice the hesitation and I knew he didnt want togo into a long explanation about how it could be dozens of thingsHe did tell me right away that these engines were prone to sludgeproblems and that over time restrictions to the lubrication systemcould damage the bearings He would charge me $600 to drop thepan and replace the pickup tube I didnt know any better but I washesitant to drop that kind of coin without knowing more Howeverhe was totally right about what needed to be done
So I read read read and then read some more about sludge ThenI came to a brilliant conclusion that all of my problems could besolved by using AutoshyRX Lets call this Big Mistake 2
I promptly ordered two bottles of this wonder liquid and began tofollow the instructions About 2 days after using AutoshyRX I wasdriving I was accelerating up a hill and at about 3shy4K rpm myengine stuttered hard and a huge puff of smoke bellowed out of theexhaust This happened 2 or three times again within about twoweeks I began to notice a few more frequent pressure warningstoo About this time I figured out that I needed to do my ownpressure test The results were pretty low
I decided to drain the oil with the AutoshyRX and switch to RotellashyT6While draining the oil I found those pieces of metal in my pan andshortly thereafter it became apparent that my turbo was dying
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5865
I really cannot prove that AutoshyRX had any positive or negativeimpact on my engine but I do believe that it significantly reducedthe oil viscosity Considering that my engine had 155K miles at thetime that lower viscosity couldnt have helped operating conditionsinside of the motor After going to 5w40 oil I did see a minorimprovement in pressure
I replaced the turbo tons of breather components cam adjusterand the car began to run great The oil pressure went up againslightly to just barely below spec at idle but I still received theoccasional warning light So after exhausting all possibilities I wasfaced with dropping the pan and checking the pickup tube
When I dropped the pan I found that things were almost cleanWay too clean I didnt realize it at the time but the car hadobviously had the sludge treatment done by the dealer at sometime I did find some plastic bits in the pan and even some metallicflakes I assumed these were from the turbo failure This was BigMistake 3 The fact that they were still floating in the bottom ofthe pan and not wedged into the screen should have also indicatedto me that the problem was still happening I had less than 500miles on that oil Its obvious now that those metal shavings werefrom my failed or failing 3 bearing
After cleaning out the pan and replacing the pickup tube anywayeven though it didnt really look clogged I bolted everything backtogether I guess I figured there really wasnt any more I could doat that point This was Mistake 4 There was plenty I should havedone with the pan off as Ive noted above At a very minimum Ishould have replaced the oil pump While the pressure improved toabout 135 psi at idle but it was still just below spec
In hindsight I should have looked at the main bearings I wouldhave discovered my problem 9 months earlier
Why not use heavier weight oil to solvelow pressure problems
I guess this is a good question If higher viscosity oil increasesresistance to flow then it will also increase oil pressure within thesystem So if you want to keep you oil pressure light from comingon then using higher viscosity oil like 15w50 will achieve that goal
Hello McFly Increasing resistance to flow = less flow
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 5965
If you have not learned this by now then all I can say is good luck
Additional Information and InformationSources
Audizine shy Obviously the community has been a big help Therereally is no way that I would have attempted to tackle any of theseproblems on my own without this great resource I know thatmany times I felt like nobody was listening to my request for helpbut I learned real quick that to get help you need to be willing togive clear and concise information about your problem and showpotential helpers that you care enough about your own problem tobe willing to take the time to do your own research and provideaccurate followshyup information So if you are new to Audizine orForums in general take this comment seriously
Automobile Related
wwwpassatworldcom shy There is a good user group there and youwill find some great forum discussions about B6s and 18ts
wwwvwvortexcom shy Good community over there too but thereare so many models that the B6 support seems to get lost in themix
wwwericthecarguycom shy Great auto repair guides and videos forbeginners shy I want this dudes job
wwwaa1carcom shy Good site to learn about how car systems workin general and how to diagnose general problems
wwwvagcatcom shy Looking for parts diagrams and numbers this isthe place Show me one better and Ill post it here
wwwenginebuildermagcom shy Good general information aboutrepairing and building engines
wwwbitogcom shy If you want to know about oil this is the place shyTrust me you have no idea how much there is to discuss about oil
wwwworkshopshymanualscomaudi shy Online Audi Repair Manuals shy Ifanything this will convince you to actually invest in the Bentley
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6065
manual Here is the link to the Sludge TSB Noted in Section 8 LINKand the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Details LINK
Engineering Related
wwwfreestudycouk shy Engineering resources formulas related tofluid dynamics shy Helped me remember stuff from my collage daysthat has been long since forgotten
wwwsubtechcom shy Highly technical information about substancesand materials good information about lubrication and bearings LINK
wwwsaedigitallibraryorg shy Really want to learn something aboutautomobile engineering read some of these technical papers shy Someare free but most cost about $20
Controlling Positive Displacement Pumps shy Short web page withsome good charts showing how pressure curves of PD Pumps
Waukesha Pumps shy Engineering Manual (PDF) shy While these pumpsare not for automotive engines the information in this manual isvery informative and relates directly to how the gerator pumps inour cars work
Bearing Design In Machinery shy If you have an engineeringbackground and you get turned on when you see formulas with alot of Greek letters like Δt Qsup3 ξ then read this I checked it out fromthe library and I realized that I havent used these parts of mybrain since the first George Bush was president
Other Sites
wwwshwdecmsen shy SHW AG is the designer and original OEMfor the Oil Pump VAG PN 06A115105 shy LINK Here is a PDF powerpoint presentation showing a photo of the pump in a shareholderpresentation one interesting thing to note they reference the costof standard oil pump at 12 euro
wwwmachinerylubricationcom shy Great site for general informationlubrication Good article explaining oil filter efficiency and BetaRatios LINK
wwwminimoparnetoilfiltersgermanhtml shy This guy has beendissecting and studying oil filters including a few German brandscompatible with 18t
Ford SHO Club Again good breakdown on oil pressure andlubrication specific to Ford SHO engine but none the less useful
Revision History
081614 shy Correction to Section 6 shy Thanks Walkey_Talkey20 081714 shy Updated Section 5 to include correct oil filter
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6165
specifications081714 shy Correction to several sections and photos Oil Galleryspelled incorrectly LINK shy Thanks diagnosticator081714 shy Added some of the missing web links to Section 9081714 shy Added Oil Pressure Switch testing
Almost DONE
Last edited by Toolaa 08shy17shy2014 at 0656 PM Reason UpdatedPhotos Links correct mistakes
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0604 AM
Wow just wow You have gone above and beyond with this threadToolaa Awesome stuff
How do you feel about doing one for the 30 engine
8
Join DateAZ Member Location
Nov 11 201066868
Rochester MNItems for Sale
SlickFix
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
His 20055 Imola Yellow B7 S4 42 Sedan
Hers 2003 Amulet Red B6 A4 30 Avant 18 B6 S4 Avus wheels|B8 S5 front brakes B6 S4 rearbrakes|Goodridge SS brake lines|Eichbach Springs|Koni FSD Struts|034sway bar amp end links|ECS snub mount|Ziza yellow fog lamp bulbs
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0440 PM
This thread right here is one of the reasons this community is sogreat
9
Join DateAZ Member
Mar 17 2014157778
Knives1010
Established MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6265
My Garage
Location
2006 DodgeCharger SE
OlympiaWashington
My Photo Gallery 0
Oscar The Grouch Goodwood Green Pearl on Black A4 Quattro 18T5speed shy 122 sold in the US^In process of returning from the land of Ghetto Honda Owners
Reply With Quote
08shy15shy2014 0557 PM
OK Im going to bookmark this to read through another day Itsway past beershythirty here but this looks like a definite good readand should be put someplace important
10
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
May 21 2014233777
2004 Jetta TDI1998 Beetle TDI 1995Dodge 1500 SWB 2003 AudiA4 18TQA
Bend Oregon
whitedog
Established MemberTwo Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0450 AM
Thanks for putting all this together Great post Lots of greatinformation here
11
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Jul 15 200719553
1988Alpineweiszlig 325iC
Mount RainierMD
boy412
Veteran MemberFour Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
~EricFOR SALE 03 Ming Blue A4 Avant 18TQM | GTRS | Maestro | SpecStage III+ | Vogtlant GTs | JHM trio | STE PPD | OEM+
Reply With Quote
11shy10shy2014 0130 PM
I fucking love this Toolaa serious props and now going to see if youhave anymore write ups which seem like they are worth their
12
DiertyEuroSpec
Veteran Member
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6365
weight in gold Bad analogy but you get the point
Join DateAZ Member Location
Aug 21 200946695
Fairfield CountyCTItems for Sale
Four Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
2003 A4 18T Quattro | 18 BBS CH | KW V3 | FT F21 Mixed Flow |MOTOZA | RA4 Stage 1 wSMFW | Milltek | Uni HFC3 DP Combo |3 TIP wMAF | 550cc | TR18 FMIC | USP FR | HshySport FR Sway |APR Snub | RS4 Motor Mounts | Stern Trans Mount | Skid Plate | SolidTie Rod Ends | Short Shifter | Euro Shift Knob | VMR Boost Gauge | S4FR Brakes | Tyrolsport Stiffening Kit | ECS SS Lines | Hawk HPS Pads| 034 PCV
Reply With Quote
11shy15shy2014 1155 AM
I wrote up an Oil pan removal DIY which was really a rehash ofother good post but with some missing details and broken links
Old Guy recently replaced his K03 with a new one and I had a GshyPop rebuild kit sitting in my garage collecting dust Fletcher gaveme his old K03 and I promised to rebuild it and post the DIY hereIt will get done Ive just been so busy with my business that I cantseem to get a nice break to do it However i consider the quiet timedoing repairs like this really relaxing so maybe I need to make thetime to chill and get it done
PS I need to do some spelling and grammar edits to this guide Illget those done too Also I am looking for real world oil pressure datawhich I will use to add more info to this thread If you have a wayof collecting oil pressure results please post them here
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphpt=611523
Thanks
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
13
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
12shy01shy2014 0518 PM
Wow Epic guide I need to file this away as my b7 20t isexperiencing some oil system related issues I know that engine is abit different but still lots of awesome information here as im prettysure the oil routing through the block and head is nearly the same
14
Charleswaite
Veteran MemberFour Rings
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6465
laquo Previous Thread | Next Thread raquo
Join DateAZ Member Location
Jun 27 201177478
Seattle WAItems for Sale
My Photo Gallery 0
shyCP USP CLUB MEMBER 1362004 A4 18TQ 6MT USP shy APR Stage 1+ shy FSI Coils shy BKR7EIXshy11 shy034 Rear Swaybar (Soft Setting) and Endlinks shy B6S4 Front + B7A4Rear Brakes shy 034 Street Trans Mount2008 Brilliant Black Unicorn (20t SshyLine Ti 6MT Avant) shy BoschFR6KPP332SSOLD shyshy 2006 A4 20TQ Avant Tiptronic
Reply With Quote
12shy03shy2014 0513 PM
Charles thanks for the comments Sorry to hear about your possibleOil pressure troubles I think you are correct about the oil flow forthe 20FSI being similar to the 18t I remember reading that USPsells an oil pump conversion kit for the 20 to install a standard AMBpump
httpwwwuspmotorsportscomUSPshyFS5amppartner=8673
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15
Join DateAZ Member My Garage
Location
Aug 03 2013120196
2004 A4Quattro 18T
Ellicott City MD
Toolaa
Senior MemberThree Rings
My Photo Gallery 0
Reply With Quote
Quick Navigation B6 A4 Tech Return Top
Tags for this Thread
18t oil pressure low oil pressure oil pressure warning three beep warning lightView Tag Cloud
Digg
delicious
Bookmarks
You may not post newthreads
You may not post replies
Posting Permissions
BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules
8252015 18t Oil Pressure Survival Guide and troubleshooting DIY
httpwwwaudizinecomforumshowthreadphp610203shy1shy8tshyOilshyPressureshySurvivalshyGuideshyandshytroubleshootingshyDIY 6565
Contact Us Forum Home Archive Top
All times are GMT shy7 The time now is 0711 AM
copy 2001shy2015 Audizine Audizinecom and Driverzinescom Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community andnews website Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyrighttrademark Audi AG Audizine is not endorsed by oraffiliated with Audi AG
delicious
StumbleUpon
You may not post repliesYou may not postattachmentsYou may not edit yourposts
[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code isOnHTML code is Off
Forum Rules