Download - Conversion to Shaivism
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Sanatana Dharma
Conversion to Shaivism
1) Does Shiva incarnate like Vishnu?
2) Are Vishnu and Brahma aspects of Shiva?
3) Where and hat is the Supreme A!ode of "ord Shiva# that $is devotees ill
o!tain after moksha %!asicall the e'uivalent of the Vaishnava(s Vaikuntha)?
) What are the main Scriptures of Shaivism# and do Shaivas accept the
Bha*avad +ita# the Bha*avata ,urana# and the Vishnu ,urana?
-) $o do e orship Shiva? Aside from pu.a to a lin*a and the Sacred
/antra %0m amah Shiva&a0)# ho does one *o a!out orshippin* $im?
) What are the !asic philosophical !eliefs of Shaivism? Do Shaivas !elieve
that Shiva actuall& e4ists or do the& !elieve that the 0true0 Shiva is
ourselves? Do Shaivas !elieve that Shiva and the soul and matter are 3
seperate entities# or that the& are all part of Brahman? etc5
6hank &ou a*ain# and ma& Shiva !less &ou5
m amah Shiva&a5
7astern /ind
89 cto!er 2889# 11:18 A/
amaste $aridas: ; adopted Saivism a!out 38 &ears a*o55 still ; am no e4pert5
As to the 'uestions &ou posed# ell555 &ou(ll *et a variet& of ansers as ithin
Shaiva there are di from the
point of vie of monistic Saiva Siddhanta5
1) no
2) not aspects# !ut same as# di
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3) in the Sivaloka# soul mer*es#
) Vedas# A*amas# and others dependin* on variet& of Saivism %read the Siva
sutra thread on here) plus orks of various Saiva *urus
-) surrenderin* &our e*o to $im# throu*h pu.a# .apa# meditation# pra&ers
) All and in all pati pasu pasam all mer*e in monistic !ranches# in dualistic
!ranches# all continue separatel&
Aum amasiva&a
B6W# hat are &ou convertin* from? Don(t anser this if &ou don(t ant to5
$aridas
89 cto!er 2889# 11:21 A/
amaste5
6hank &ou for &our ansers5 As to the di
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Shiva does not 0incarnate05 But the hole orld is $is manifestation# and $is
poer of merc& %anu*raha) is revealed in Sad*uru and A*ama5 A*ain# each
.;va is Shiva !& its nature and thus can !e termed as an 0avatAra05
67E2) Are Vishnu and Brahma aspects of Shiva?67E
Shiva as the +odhead has - poers or functions:
15 Sad&o.ata F Brahma F Srishtishakti
25 Vamadeva F Vishnu F Sthitishakti
35 A*hora F Gudra F Samharashakti
5 6atpurusha F /aheshvara F 6iro!havashakti
-5 ;shana F Sadashiva F Au*rahashakti
%ames ma& have di
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/ain Scriptures of all A*amic schools of Shaivism %that means all e4cept
,ashupatas) are ShaivaA*amas5 All accept 2J SiddhantaA*amas# hile
6antric Shaiva 6radition adds BhairavaA*amas %considered to !e in
num!er) as the supreme revelation5 Apart from A*amas# there are fe other
essential sources considered to !e Shruti# such as Shivasutra5
,ashupata is a Vedic school havin* ,ashupatasutra as its main Scripture %in
addition to Vedic te4ts)5
A*amic Shaivism is not !ased upon paurAika te4ts# thou*h several
/ahapuranas are mostl& Shaiva %@rst of all# ShivaVa&upurana)5 ,uranas are
secondar& authorit& meant for people of limited understandin* and cannot !e
re*arded as primar& souce of doctrine and practice5
Some Shaiva traditions do accept Brahmasutra %and there are several
schools of Shaiva Vedanta) and Bha*avad*ita5 $oever these te4ts aren(t of
an& *reat importance5 f course Vaishnava upapurAnas like Bha*avatam %it is
not the same as Bha*avata as /ahapurana# hich is lost) have no
si*ni@cance for an& Shaiva tradition %as# for e4ample# Chandi or =alika
puranas aren(t authorative for Vaishnavas)5
67E-) $o do e orship Shiva? Aside from pu.a to a lin*a and the
Sacred /antra %0m amah Shiva&a0)# ho does one *o a!out orshippin*
$im?67E
6his depends upon particular school# !ut in an& case there is a kind of Io*a
%in a sense of spiritual practice and not *&mnastics)5
suall& there are four aspects of practice: char&A %rules of conduct)# kri&A%rituals)# &o*a %inner practices) and .nAna %knoled*e)5
67E) What are the !asic philosophical !eliefs of Shaivism? Do Shaivas
!elieve that Shiva actuall& e4ists or do the& !elieve that the 0true0 Shiva is
ourselves? Do Shaivas !elieve that Shiva and the soul and matter are 3
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seperate entities# or that the& are all part of Brahman? etc567E
Vies of di
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2) Are Vishnu and Brahma aspects of Shiva? Shaivism in *eneral teaches that
Brahma# Vishnu and Gudra are all parts of Shiva5 6he socalled 6rimurti e4ists
onl& in a manner of speakin*5 ;n truth# there is onl& Shiva# ho is knon as
Brahma# Vishnu# Gudra# /aheshvara and Sadashiva in various capacities5
3) Where and hat is the Supreme A!ode of "ord Shiva# that $is devotees ill
o!tain after moksha %!asicall the e'uivalent of the Vaishnava(s Vaikuntha)?
Shivaloka# as 7/ mentioned5 ;n Shaivism# Shivaloka is the hi*hest of the
seven orlds hich ma& also !e called Brahmaloka or Sat&aloka5 Be&ond
that# there is no loka as such# !ut oneness ith Shiva5 Shaiva monists !elievein complete mer*er %like a drop of ater mi4in* ith the ocean)# dualists
!elieve in a mer*er ith di
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Ardhanarishvara# etc5 Shaivites also orship Shakti as nondi
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amaste A*nideva#
; ould like to point out that this analo*& ma& !e misleadin*5 ,aradvaita does
not re.ect !heda !ut sees it as e4istin* in Consciousness alone5 Shaivism
doesn(t su!scri!e to the common Advaitavedanta vie of 0kevala0 Advaita5
Somehere Achar&a A!hinava*upta sa&s that ,aradvaita neither esta!lishes
nor re.ects !heda5 Shaiva Siddhas do not mer*e in void !ut realise their true
nature as Consciousness5 Due to this the& are perfect .;vanmuktas# ho
perceive this orld as manifestation of Shiva(s !liss5 But if e take literall& a
model of 0complete mer*in*0# e should assume that onl& videhamukti is
possi!le N hich certainl& is not the case5
&a.van
89 cto!er 2889# 83:38 ,/
$ari m
OOOOO
amaste A*nideva#
; ould like to point out that this analo*& ma& !e misleadin*5 ,aradvaita does
not re.ect !heda !ut sees it as e4istin* in Consciousness alone5 Shaivism
doesn(t su!scri!e to the common Advaitavedanta vie of 0kevala0 Advaita5
Somehere Achar&a A!hinava*upta sa&s that ,aradvaita neither esta!lishes
nor re.ects !heda5 Shaiva Siddhas do not mer*e in void !ut realise their true
nature as Consciousness5 Due to this the& are perfect .;vanmuktas# ho
perceive this orld as manifestation of Shiva(s !liss5 But if e take literall& a
model of 0complete mer*in*0# e should assume that onl& videhamukti is
possi!le N hich certainl& is not the case5
amaste Ar.una H AD5
Can ; make a recommendation? 6hese conversations are most e4cellent # and
&ou folks are knoled*ea!le5
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Can &ou assist others ith the terms that &ou use? A =e& term that ill
unravel this post is !heda5 Without knoin* this# one is at a disadvanta*e of
comprehendin* the conversation5
Kor me# !heda is that of di
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and from then on e4perience thin*s as Shiva# and e are literall& $im?
And @nall&
;s ever&thin* that is made of ph&sical matter an illusion?
6hanks a*ain for anserin*# and ma& Shiva !less &ou5
amaste $aridas#
Iou need not anser this 'uestion either# !ut ma& ; ask h& &ou(ve decided
to leave !ehind +audi&a Vaishnavism?
amaste
; decided to leave +audi&a Vaishnavism !ecause its main scripture# the
Bha*avata ,urana# contradicted the Vedas and panishads on some points#
and even loered the level of "ord Shiva to that of an easil& su!dued man
%one stor& states that Shiva as entranced !& /ohini and anted to cheat on+oddess ,arvati ith her)5 6his is also h& ; left Vaishnavism in *eneral5
7astern /ind
89 cto!er 2889# 8:1 ,/
$aridas : 6he !luethroated Siva is Dakshinamurthi# the ultimate meditator# ;
suppose5 $e is another form of Siva# or !etter &et# another a& that Siva
manifests5 6here is lots of s&m!olo*& related to Dakshinamurthi# of hich ;
kno 'uite little# !ut others ill help &ou5 ;t(s de@nitel& more common in
orth ;ndia5
As others have pondered# it is interestin* to !e convertin* ithin $induism#
or at least seekin* out5 /a&!e ;(ll start a ne thread5 Kor sure# if &ou look for
them# &ou ill @nd contradictor& scripture in ever& sect5 6hat used to !other
me5 ; once asked a sami that ver& 'uestion5 Gi*ht no ; can(t remem!er the
point that ; had found contradictor !ut he .ust lau*hed and said# 0;t(s all .ust
Siva(s dance50 ; took it to mean that e shouldn(t seat the small thin*s like
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small contradictions# and sta& focussed on the !i* picture# hich is the
realisation of the Self +od ithin5 Aum amsiva&a
A*nideva
89 cto!er 2889# 8J:J ,/
amaste $aridas#
6he form of "ord Shiva that e see in pictures %the meditatin* !lue ascetic)#
is that is 0,ersonal0 or 0Supreme0 Korm ith all of $is attri!utes %such as
Vishnu(s ara&ana form)# and then all else emanates from $im %such as
Vaishnavas( !eliefs on Vishnu(s !reathin* in and out and created universes)?
Ies# mostl& e see Shiva pictures here $e is represented as an ascetic
seated in meditation ith matted locks and all the other s&m!ols5 6he a& ;vie this ima*e is that it is a pro.ection of the ima*e of a Saiva ascetic onto
Shiva5
;f &ou(re lookin* for more of a universal form of Shiva# that ould !e the
atara.a /urti# Shiva in $is cosmic dance of creation# sustenance and
dissolution5 Iou can read up on the atara.a s&m!olism on Wikipedia
%http:en5ikipedia5or*ikiatara.a)5
;s ever&thin* that is made of ph&sical matter an illusion?; ill leave it to
others to anser &our more philosophical 'uestions# !ut from m&
understandin* Shaivite philosophies all hold that the orld is as real as the
realit& of Shiva5
Aum amah Shiva&a#
A5
Ar.una
8J cto!er 2889# 82:3- A/
amaste $aridas#
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natarajahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nataraja
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6he form of "ord Shiva that e see in pictures %the meditatin* !lue ascetic)#
is that is 0,ersonal0 or 0Supreme0 Korm ith all of $is attri!utes %such as
Vishnu(s ara&ana form)# and then all else emanates from $im %such as
Vaishnavas( !eliefs on Vishnu(s !reathin* in and out and created universes)?
; liked A*nideva(s anser re Shaiva ascetic pro.ection5 ,erhaps that is the
case ith this commonl& knon form5
All Shiva(s forms such as ilakantha# Bhairava# Sundareshvara# atara.a#
Shara!ha# /ahakala# Sharva# Gudra etc5 are aspects of Shiva that have
certain s&m!olism5
6here is no picture of Supreme Shiva since $e %$eShe) is !e&ond ever&thin*
and in ever&thin*5 But ; assume the 0*eneral0 hi*hest form %and one of the
most ancient) of Shiva hich is depicted is ,anchavaktra N since $e is
personi@cation of ,achakshari5 6hen# there are several 0speci@c0 forms hich
can !e seen as hi*hest %!ut a*ain not of Anuttara,aramashiva)# such as
/ahakala or =ameshvara N the& are !hairavas of three main /ahavid&as
%essential forms of +oddess,oer of Consciousness)5
Shiva has several representations in mantric form: ,anchakshari# avatmaka!hairava etc5
When e mer*e ith Shiva# are e then +od? As in# do e lose our identities
and from then on e4perience thin*s as Shiva# and e are literall& $im?
;n monistic Shaivism ever& .;va %au or nara) is Shiva onl& !& its nature# thusthere is no point of 0!ecomin*0 Shiva5 ;t is Shiva ho takes up all identities !&
$is on free ill5 6hus it is up to $im hether 0e0 lose or retain an& of these
:)
;n an& case# Shaivism accepts naratattva as one of three essential elements
of 6rika %triple Gealit& of Brahman)5 ;t is not an illusion# !ut function of
Supreme Consciousness5
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;s ever&thin* that is made of ph&sical matter an illusion?
7ver&thin* is made of Consciousness and e4ists onl& in Consciousness as a
fact of perception5 6hus# ever&thin* is real5
; decided to leave +audi&a Vaishnavism !ecause its main scripture# the
Bha*avata ,urana# contradicted the Vedas and panishads on some points#
and even loered the level of "ord Shiva to that of an easil& su!dued man
%one stor& states that Shiva as entranced !& /ohini and anted to cheat on
+oddess ,arvati ith her)5 6his is also h& ; left Vaishnavism in *eneral5
; am ne to this Korum5 ; am a Shiva Bhakta5 What is $ari and Shiva# the& are
one and