Download - Special Series: The Challenge of Global …the challenge of global transformation (1) 5 approach, and called for such efforts as guaranteeing “a decent life for all” the inhabitants

SpecialSeries:

TheChallengeofGlobalTransformation—

HumanityandtheEnvironment(1)

ErnstUlrichvonWeizsäckerDaisakuIkeda

Starting with this issue, The Journal of Oriental Studies will be presenting the two concluding installments of “The Challenge of Global Transformation—Humanity and the Environment,” a dialogue on build-ing a sustainable global society between German environmentalist Dr. Ernst Ulrich von Weizsäcker and Daisaku Ikeda, president of the Soka Gakkai International (SGI) and founder of the Institute of Oriental Philosophy (IOP).

One of the foremost authorities on global environmental policy, Dr. Weizsäcker serves as co-president of the Club of Rome. Mr. Ikeda is also an honorary member of the acclaimed think tank and has published dialogues with its cofounder Aurelio Peccei and honorary president Ricardo Díez-Hochleitner.

Dr. Weizsäcker met Mr. Ikeda for the first time in Tokyo in March 2010, with the two agreeing to continue their discourse by correspon-dence since then. Their dialogue was serialized in the Japanese com-mentary monthly Ushio and then in The Journal of Oriental Studies (Japanese Edition), from December 2011 through May 2014, over eight installments. Among the subjects they examine in this issue are the imperatives of achieving both social and environmental justice, ending “market fundamentalism,” and devising alternatives to GDP in measur-ing wealth.

Ikeda:Since2011,ourdialoguehasbeenpublishedinsixinstallmentsinthemagazineUshio.

Fromtheseventhinstallmentonward,itwillbepublishedinEnglishfor the first time here in The Journal of Oriental Studies.Taking intoconsideration our discussions up to this point, I hope to explore withyou,Dr.Weizsäcker,inevengreaterdepththekeyfactorsforbuildingasustainableglobalsociety.

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4　the challenge of global transformation (1)

The Journal of Oriental Studies celebrated itsgoldenanniversary in2012asanacademicpublicationonEasternphilosophyandstudiesthatexamines themanifold issuesconfrontingourworld today, frompeaceandhumanrightstotheenvironment,bioethics,andinterfaithdialogue,andsearchesforwaystoresolvethesechallenges.Myhopeisthatthisdialoguewillprovetobeofsomeworthinprovidingfreshinsightsintoandperspectivesonhumanityandtheenvironment,whichisthecentralthemeofourdiscussions.

I must therefore ask for your continued counsel and cooperation aswemoveforward.

Weizsäcker: I very much look forward to the continuation of ourdialogue. I fondly recall the enjoyable opportunity in March 2010 ofbeinginvitedtoparticipateintheInstituteofOrientalPhilosophysympo-sium on the theme “Global Environmental Problems and Ethics” andtaking part in very satisfying and productive discussions with otherscholarsandresearchers.

Inmykeynotespeechonthatoccasion,Inotedthatwhilescienceandtechnologycandoalottoleadtoapeacefulandsustainableworld,thereisanadditionalneedtoeffectcriticalchangesineconomicsandpolitics.

ThisisasubjectthatIwouldliketodiscussfurtherwithyou.

Justice for society and the environment

Ikeda:Itisaveryimportantpoint,andonethatshouldnotberestrictedtopolicychanges ina singlenationbut thatglobal societyasawholemustengagewithinearnest.

At this very moment, the United Nations (UN) is focusing on whatkindsofagendashouldbeadoptedfollowing2015,theendpointoftheUN’sMillenniumDevelopmentGoals(MDGs).

InMay2013,ahigh-levelpanelat theUNdeliveredareportonthegoalstobeachievedby2030,suggestingfivemajoraims:(1)puttinganend to extreme poverty; (2) taking quick action with sustainabledevelopment as its primary objective; (3) transforming economies tocreate employment and inclusive growth; (4) creating peace andaccountablegovernance;and(5)forginganewglobalpartnershipbasedonsharedrecognitionofourmutualequalityashumanbeings.1

In February, prior to the UN report, the European Union (EU)announced that the 2013 agenda following the MDGs and theSustainable Development Goals (SDGs) initiated by the Rio+20conferenceinJune2012shouldbetackledtogetherthroughacombined

the challenge of global transformation (1) 5

approach,andcalledforsucheffortsasguaranteeing“adecent lifeforall” the inhabitants of the planet and managing the Earth’s naturalresourcesonasustainablebasis.

Intheprocessofexaminingthecontentsofthesenewgoals,Ibelieveit is vital to not only discuss them in terms of public policy but alsoexplorethemfromthebroaderperspectiveofhumancivilization.

As such, in my 2013 Peace Proposal, I urged the importance ofremedying the pathology of civilization decried by the great Germanwriter Johan Wolfgang von Goethe (1749–1832) in his masterworkFaust,wherehedepictsthehumandrivetoemployanymethodtofulfillone’s desires by the quickest means possible, with no regard for thesufferingthatmayinflictuponothers.2

It seems tome that this pathologyof civilizationunderliesmanyofthethreatsfacingourworldtoday.Weseeitinnuclearweapons,whoseusewould“defend” thenationpossessing themat thepriceofhuman-ity’sextinction; inasocietywherefreemarketcompetition isglorifiedat thecostofwideningeconomicdisparitiesand theconsciousneglectof its most vulnerable members; in the unabated pace of ecologicaldestruction driven by the prioritization of economic growth; and in aglobalfoodcrisisbroughtaboutbycommodityspeculation.

I am reminded of the conclusion in your work Earth Politics, inwhich you stressed the following with regard to these problems: “WewouldalsoneedanewviewofcivilisationandcultureintheCenturyoftheEnvironment.”3

Myquestionforyou,Dr.Weizsäcker,is:Whatarethekeyparametersof a new civilization we should aspire for in the 21st century—forexample,whatpointsinparticularshouldwefocusoninreconsideringtheaimsandrolesofgovernmentandeconomics?

Weizsäcker:Ithinktherearemanydifferentfactorsthatneedreconsid-eration,butIwouldsuggestinparticulartheimportanceofestablishingsocialjusticeandecologicaljustice.

President Ikeda, you mentioned the global food crisis as one of thethreats facing our world today. Taking that as an example, one of themajorcausesforthecrisisisthewasteoffoodresourcesintheWestandotheraffluentnationssuchasJapan.

There are those who argue the need for the genetic engineering offoods to increase production, making the assumption that increasedconsumptionof fooddemands increasedproduction.But Ibelieve thatveryassumptionis infacterroneous.Geneticengineeringoffoodmaybe effective in producing more food for the rich, but that is not the


answertothelargerfoodshortageproblem.Ifone’sgoal is toproduce food for thehungry,a farmoreeffective

method is togive them land togrow theirown food.The truthof thiswas already well established by Frances Moore Lappé, in her book,publishedinthe1970s,Food First: Beyond the Myth of Scarcity.

Ms.LappéwasfocusingontheSahelzone,abeltsouthoftheSaharaDesertrunningeastandwestacrossnorthernAfricathatwasatthetimesuffering terrible food shortages. In her study, she discovered theshocking fact that the countries of the Sahel zone, which wereundergoingextremefamine,wereactuallyexportingfoodtotheUnitedStatesandEurope,andtheamountoftheirexportsexceededtheamountoffoodtheywerereceivingthroughinternationalhungerrelief.

Why did this happen? Because the impoverished residents of theSahelzonedidn’towntheland.Themajorityofthelandwasownedbyforeignfoodgrowers,whohadnointerestinproducingfoodtofeedthelocalpeoplebutwerefocusedsolelyongrowingcashcropsforexport.

Though the situation is different today from that described by Ms.Lappéinthe1970s,theessenceofthephenomenaremainsunchanged.

Thefoodshortagesinvariouspartsoftheworldtodayarecreatedbywhat is called landgrabbing. Inotherwords, foreign interests such asinvestors and banks buy up all the fertile land suitable for foodproduction,andthenuseittogrowcropsthatbenefittheirmarkets,suchascorn,toproduceethanolforautomobilefuel.Thedevelopednationsaregrabbingupthefarmlandsofthedevelopingnationsinthepursuitofprofits.

This entire situation, in my opinion, is a product of marketfundamentalism, which ranks profit above everything else and has noconcernforsocialjustice.

Ikeda:When considering the problem of food shortages, then, weshould not focus solely on balancing supply with demand but insteadreframethequestiontoaskwhythosewhoareingenuineneedforfoodarenotavailedtoit.

AccordingtoastudyconductedinJapan,whatisknownasfoodloss—food which is edible but, because it is either left over or unsold, isdiscarded by households and businesses—amounts to 8 million tonsannually.4

The total global amount of food aid given to countries with foodshortagescomestosome4milliontons.Japanalonediscardstwicethatamountoffood.Thisisthesituationyouarereferringtowhenyoucitethewasteoffood.5


Although Japan is relatively advanced when it comes to the 3Rs ofreducingwaste,reusingfiniteresources,andrecyclingwhatwecan,weneed to remedy the present situation by making an active effort toreconsider our dietary practices and resolve this problem of foodwastage.

Thelandgrabbingyourefertoisalsointensifyingwitheachpassingyear. According to one international non-governmental organization(NGO),foreigninvestorsnowownapproximately27millionhectaresoffarminglandinAfrica,withanestimated10percentofthearablelandof Ethiopia and 15 percent of the arable land of Sierra Leone underforeignownership.6

A similar situation is spreading in Asia and Central and SouthAmerica, and some have raised the alarm that it is in danger ofbecominganewformofcolonialism.

Even if work to achieve the MDGs ameliorates the food shortageproblem, these efforts will remain little more than a stopgap measureunlesswedevoteattentionandactiontorectifythisdevelopingtrend.

Inmypeaceproposals,Ihaverepeatedlyemphasizedthattheefforttoachieve theMDGsmustnotbecomepreoccupiedmerelywithmeetingtheir cited objectives; instead, we should not forget that the highestpriority should be assigned on restoring the well-being of sufferingindividuals.Ifwefixatesolelyonmacrogoalsintheformofnumericaltargetsandoverlook the real-worldplightofpeople,ourprioritieswillhavebeenfatallyskewed.

I have also stressed that rather than looking upon threatenedpopulationsaspassiverecipientsofaidanddevelopmentassistance,itisevenmoreparamounttofocusontheirempowerment,enablingthemasactive protagonists to resolve their own challenges and bring theirboundlesspotentialandstrengthstofullestflower.

In that regard, I strongly agree with your view that the key is toprovide land to those suffering from food shortages, so theycangrowtheirownfood.

In recent years the idea of food sovereignty—that the people ofdevelopingnationshave theright togrowthecrops theywanton theirownland,throughtheirownefforts—isgainingmomentum.Respectforthiskindof“ownership”is,inmyopinion,acrucialfactornotonlywithregard to the problem of food shortages but also for achieving socialjusticeinglobalsocietyingeneral.


Bonds Between humanity and nature

Weizsäcker: I agree.Asamatterof fact, Iwas strongly influenced inadoptingtheviewpointIhavejustexpressedaboutthefoodshortagebythe economist Ernst Friedrich Schumacher (1911–77). I used to knowhimpersonally,andhewasawonderfulperson.

In one of his lectures, after speaking on food issues, he asked hisaudience,“DoyouknowtheTLCfactor?”

“WhatchemicalisTLC?”Iaskedhim.“It’snotachemical,”hereplied.“Itstandsfor‘tender,loving,care.’”He explained that when people owned their land, they managed to

producefivetimesasmuchfoodperacreasindustrialfarmers.TheTLCfactorthatDr.Schumacherwasreferringtodidnotregister

ontheradarsofindustrialfarmers,andithadnotoccurredtoresearchersintheagriculturalsciences.

WhatDr.Schumacherpointedoutmademerealize that thesolutionto the world’s food problems has less to do with markets than self-motivation,lesswithemployingmorefarmersthanwithfosteringmoreself-employedfarmers.

Ikeda:TheTLCfactorrepresentsakeyaspectoftheproblem,whichIbelieveemergesfromastrongbondbetweenpeopleandnature—inthiscase, the soil. In his renowned work Small Is Beautiful: A Study of Economics as if People Mattered,Dr.Schumacherexplainedhisviewsonagricultureasfollows:

A wider view sees agriculture as having to fulfill at least threetasks:

—to keep man in touch with living nature, of which he is andremainsahighlyvulnerablepart;—tohumaniseandennobleman’swiderhabitat;and—to bring forth the foodstuffs and other materials which areneededforabecominglife.

Idonotbelievethatacivilisationwhichrecognisesonlythethirdofthesetasks, and which pursues it with such ruthlessness andviolence that the other two tasks are not merely neglected butsystematicallycounteracted,hasanychanceoflong-termsurvival.7

Rereading this now, one can take it as both a prediction and caveatissued by Dr. Schumacher that a phenomenon similar to landinggrabbingwouldoccur.


Hisreferencetothe“ruthlessnessandviolence”withwhichciviliza-tionpursuesitsgoalsalsoresonateswiththe“pathologyofcivilization”thatInotedinthecontextofGoethe’sFaust inmy2013PeaceProposal.Without making a full-fledged attempt to remedy that pathology, Ibelievethewaytocreatingagenuinelysustainablesocietymaybeunat-tainable.8

Dr.Schumacherwarnedthatthecauseofthispathologyis“duetothefact that, as a society, we have no firm basis of belief in any meta-economic values, and when there is no such belief the economiccalculustakesover.”9Whatweneedtodonowistoreexaminewhattheproper relationship between human beings and nature should be andwhatwemustnotneglect,eitherbyomissionorcommission,insociety.

TheBuddhistviewofnatureregardshumanbeingsandnature,humanbeingsandtheland,asbeinginseparable.AsNichiren(1222–82)writes:“Thelivingbeingsandtheirenvironmentsarenottwothings,andone’sselfandthelandoneinhabitsarenottwothings.”10

In other words, all life, including human beings, exists in arelationship of mutual interdependence and support, the naturalenvironmentandlivingbeingsjoinedbydeepandindivisiblebonds.

“Inthesameway, life isshapedbyitsenvironment,”11Nichirenalsowrites,stressingthatwehumanbeingsmustneverforgettohaveadeepspirit of gratitude for the blessings of nature and that our lives aresupportedbyourrelationshipswithallotherlivingthings.

Ourtiestonaturemustbebasedontherealizationandensuingsenseof responsibility that “[without the body, no shadow can exist, and]without life, no environment.”12Or toborrowDr.Schumacher’swordsandexpressthisideaincontemporaryterms,wemustdevotetheutmosttenderness,love,andcarefortheenvironment,andbystrivingtoprotectnatureandtheecosystem,leadalifeinwhichourownhumanityshinesitsbrightest.

Inthatsense,Iaminprofoundagreementwithyouremphasisontheneed to establish social justice and ecological justice in the effort tocreateasustainableglobalsociety.

The UN has set the period from 2005 to 2015 as the InternationalDecadeforAction,“WaterforLife,”and2013astheInternationalYearforWaterCooperation.

I believe that social justice and ecological justice are also veryimportantfactorsinconsideringtheissueofwaterresourcesaswell.


maximizing water resources

Weizsäcker: Yes. I’m not a water expert, but I believe there are fourmajorwaysinwhichwatershortagescanbeameliorated.

Thefirst is related to the cost ofwater in a country and the cost ofwaterusedinagricultureinthatcountry.Inchapter4ofFactor Five,weexplorethisissueusingadiagram.

Theunbelievablefactisthatinmostcountries,thecostofwaterusedinagricultureiszero.Withtheexceptionof theNetherlandsandafewothercountries,mostcountriessetthecostofagriculturalwateratzeroorsomethingveryclosetozero.Yetinspiteofthat,peopleeverywherecomplainabouttheshortageofwater.

AustraliaandIsraelusedripirrigationinsteadoffloodirrigation.Byusing thiswater-savingmethod, theyareable toproduceat least threetimes more food per gallon (about 3.78 liters) of water. That’s oneimportantaspect.

Onewouldofcoursestillhavetomakesurethatfarmerswouldnotbeimpoverishedbyhavingtopaytheactualcostofthewatertheyuse.Butiftheyareabletoproducethreetimesthefoodpergallonofwater,theyshouldn’tbeimpoverished.

Thesecondwaytomaximizewaterresources is topurifywater thathasbeenused.Thisisaninescapabledutyforcreatingsustainableurbanlivingenvironments.

Before reaching theNorthSea, thewaterof theRiverRhine travelsthrough numerous cities in Switzerland, France, Germany, and theNetherlandsandtendstobeusedand/orrecycledabouttentimesonitsjourney,whichisperhapsthereasonthatGermanydoesnotsufferfromawatershortage,eveninthelow-lyingNorthRhine-Westphaliaregion.

ThecitiesoftheNorthRhine-WestphaliaareareceiveRhinewaterina reasonably clean state. Actually, to the best of my knowledge, thewaterleavingtheNorthRhine-Westphaliaregionisinfactcleanerthanwhenitarrivedthere.

Germany has amazing water purification technology—anotherimportantmeasurefordealingwiththeproblemofwatershortages.

Unfortunately, most countries of the world do not employ suchtechnologies.Itisimportantforthemtodosoasquicklyaspossible.

The third way to deal with water shortages is to increase waterefficiencyintheprivatesector.

In chapter2ofFactor Four,wecited the exampleof a certainGer-man paper manufacturer that, by the adoption of internal purificationsystems, managed to demonstrate a ten-fold increase in water pro-


ductivity in the paper-production process. This company was con-stantly recycling itswater. Itwasmotivated todosoby thehighcostsimposedonwaste-waterdischarge.Largewaste-waterdischargeswouldhavebeenveryexpensiveforthecompany,andtoavoidthosecosts,themanufacturer stored all its water inside the factory, purifying andrecyclingit,whichincreasedthecompany’sprofitability.

The same approach can be used in steel foundries and otherindustries.Theefficientuseofwaterinmanufacturingisveryimportant.

Thefourthapproachtodealingwithwatershortagesisbuildingmoredamstoprovidemorewater,ortopumpmorewaterfromunderground.Theseare the twoapproaches that jumpimmediately tomindformostpeople when considering how to respond to water shortages, butpumpingmorewaterfromundergroundsourcesdepletesthewatertableand is a method that should be avoided from the perspective ofsustainability.

Ikeda:Allofthepointsyoumentionareimportantifwearetomakethemost of our precious and irreplaceable water sources and establishconditionsforthesustainableuseofnaturalresources.

Water shortages, like food shortages, threaten the very survival ofmanypeoplearoundtheworld.

The United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) HumanDevelopment Report 2006 states: “Water, the stuff of life and a basichumanright,isattheheartofadailycrisisfacedbycountlessmillionsof the world’s most vulnerable people—a crisis that threatens life anddestroys livelihoods on a devastating scale.”13 It warns: “Like hunger,deprivationinaccesstowaterisasilentcrisisexperiencedbythepoorand tolerated by those with the resources, the technology and thepoliticalpowertoendit.”14

Improvingthesituationconcerningwaterusewasincludedasoneofthe issues within the Millennium Development Goals Report 2012,whichdeclares thegoalof“halving theproportionofpeoplewholackdependableaccesstoimprovedsourcesofdrinkingwater”wasachievedaheadof the2015deadline. In theyear2015,however,more than600million people around the world will still be using unsafe watersources.15

Given this set of circumstances, in July 2010 the UN GeneralAssemblyadoptedameasuredeclaringaccesstosafeandcleandrinkingwateraswellastosanitationabasichumanright,andgrowingnumbersof people around the world are insisting that water should be made apublicorsemi-publicresource.


InFebruary2013,more thanonemillionpeople inEuropesignedapetition endorsing a public movement to have water declared not as acommodity but a public good, marking the possibility that it willbecome the first European Citizen’s Initiative in the EU to garner thenecessarysupportforadoption.

Speakingof“publicgoods,”youcalled for its increased recognitioninFactor Five:

Wewelcometheemergenceofanew,morebalancedZeitgeist.Wedonotwantareturntotheextremecountermodeloftheexaltationof the state and the denigration of the market.What our worldneeds is market efficiency and liberation from the ideology ofmarketfundamentalism, togetherwithastate that iscommittedtothepublicinterestandiscapableoflong-termaction.16

Germanyiswidelyknownforhavingadoptedmanynationalpoliciesbased on this concept of public goods from the period immediatelyfollowingWorldWarII.Whatfactorsdoyouseeasunderlyingthis?

Putting an end to “market fundamentalism”

Weizsäcker: Todiscussthis,itisnecessarytolookintothehistoryofthesocialmarketeconomyinGermany.

Thiswasadoptedasapolitical strategy in theearlyyears followingWorldWarIIundertheimmensethreatoftheexpansionofcommunisminEurope.

The former US general and later Secretary of State George C.Marshall (1880–1959) realized that in order to contain or to stopcommunism, the West had to adopt policies that offered generoussupporttothepoor, topreventthemfrombeingattractedbytheprom-isesofsocialism.

Socialismaddresseditselfprimarilytothepoorandunderprivileged,andthereweremanypoorinEuropeandworldwideatthetime.

Themarketeconomyhad theadvantageofmarketefficiency,whichalsoappealedtothepoor.TheMarshallPlanforrevivingEuropewasaremarkable symbol of American generosity. Having lost more than100,000 soldiers in the fighting in Europe, instead of taking brutalrevengeonitsformerenemies,theUSgavethemaid.

ItwasabrilliantmovethatwasextremelywellreceivedbythosewholatercametobethemajorityforceinthenewGermandemocracy,withclose ties to the Catholic Church. Konrad Adenauer (1876–1967),


servingaschancellorofWestGermanyfrom1949to1963,wasthefirstpoliticalleaderinthiscountrywhowasnotaProtestant.

With keen political insight, Adenauer realized the importance ofovercomingtheoldfactionalismamongtheconservativesandwasabletorallyhispoliticalalliestoachievethat.

During the German Empire and the Weimar Republic, the catholicGerman Center Party (Deutsche Zentrumspartei) and the protestantGermanNationalPeople’sParty (DeutschnationaleVolkspartei),whichboth represented conservative thinking, were rivals that never reallycooperated.

Adenauer, althoughverymuchaCatholic, felt that hisparty shouldnot be the Catholic Union but the Christian Union (Christian Demo-craticUnion).TheProtestantswereveryhappywithhispoliticalthink-ing.

Oneof themanifestationsofhisstrategywashis foreignpolicyandhisthoroughgoingsupportoftheMarshallPlan.Anotherwashissocialwelfarepolicies,basedonCatholictradition,whichcanbetracedbacktoBiblicaltimes.

Jesus,whodemonstratedconsistentconcernforthepoor,wouldbeasocialist in modern terms. This longstanding tradition was reinvented,and it took theshapesince the19thcenturyofwhat iscalledCatholicSocialTeaching(KatholischeSoziallehre).

This tradition, though never dominant among the Church hierarchyor clergy, had a strong political influence. In a sense you could sayAdenauer, with his excellent political instincts, developed a socialmarketeconomyrootedintheCatholicSocialTeaching.

There were others aside from Adenauer who made importantcontributionstotheideaofthesocialmarketeconomy.PerhapsthemostimportantwasAlfredMüller-Armack(1901–78),whowasinasensethefatheroftheconcept.

EssentiallywhatI’msayingis,theideaofthesocialmarketeconomywas theproductofacleverand instinctualopportunismof the time toconfront socialism with an emphasis on social welfare, as opposed toclassicalconservativethinking.

Ikeda:You are saying that in addition to the international situation inwhich postwarWest Germany found itself, the emphasis on socialwelfarerootedinreligioustraditionsbyChancellorAdenauerandotherGermanpoliticalfiguresplayedamajorroleintheadoptionofnationalpolicy.

InApril 1990, after the end of the Cold War and just prior to the


reunificationofGermany, Ihad theopportunity tomeetwithHeinrichBarth, former state secretary of West Germany and co-founder of theKonradAdenauerFoundation(Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung).

OnthatoccasionwediscussedhowChancellorAdenauer,whilestillthemayorofCologne,adoptedvariousinitiativesofgreatpublicbenefitin theareasofeducationand theenvironment.Hewas instrumental inthereopeningoftheUniversityofCologne,whichhadbeenclosedformore thanacentury, forexample,while launchingan initiative for thegreeningofthecityinresponsetogrowingconcernsoverenvironmentalpollution. InJune1991,afterGermany’s reunification, ImetDr.Barthagain in Bonn, and he expressed high hopes for Richard vonWeizsäcker,thefirstpresidentoftheFederalRepublicofGermany.

Looking back, I recall that I first met with President WeizsäckershortlyaftermysecondmeetingwithDr.Barth.

With a steady, serious demeanor, PresidentWeizsäcker said that weshould be concerned not just with material prosperity, but with thehumanity itself as well as its solidarity and harmonious coexistence—wordswhichmadeadeepimpressiononme.

He thenaskedmeaboutJapanandhowit regardedmaterialismandthewaywhichhumanbeingsshouldleadtheirlives.

IrespondedwithmyfrankopinionthatsocietyinJapanisevolvingata very rapid pace. The changes are coming on so fiercely that theJapanese themselves sometimes get lost and are confused as to wheretheynowstand.Themajorityofthesechanges,sadlyenough,havebeenin the direction of an expanding materialism. Like so many otherselsewhereintheworld, their liveshavebecomedominatedbymaterialpursuits that, in one sense, have encrusted the human spirit with en-cumbrances.

When choosing a job, I continued, many young people base theirdecisiononsuchthingsaswhetherthejobpayswell,whetheritiseasy,andwhetheritofferslongvacations.Youngpeoplehaveallbutforgottenthe spirit of working for the good of society, and a degenerateindividualismhasrisenupinitsplace.Toexpectatreetoflourishwhenits deepest roots wither does not stand to reason. Thoughtful andconscientious people are deeply concerned about Japan’s future. Thestruggletoachievesomethingworthytakesalifetime,whiledestructiontakesbutaninstant.

Iconcludedthatwearebattlingtoreversethisdestructivetrendinthehopeofexpandingtheboundsofhumanspirituality,enablingittosurgethroughoutsocietylikeamightyriver.

WhenPresidentWeizsäckervisitedJapaninAugust1995,onthe50th


anniversaryoftheendofWorldWarII,hespokebeforealargegroupofcitizensatapublicsymposium.HedescribedtheGermansandJapaneseas being industrious with an economic orientation, yet while bothnations follow theprinciplesof the freemarketeconomy, theyhaveattimesgonetoofar.Theirorientation,forexample,hasforcedpeopletocompete against one another from an early age, reinforcing a ma-terialisticworldview.

Whatweneed todo,hesaid, is to learn to thinkandwork togetherfrom an ecological perspective and tackle the manifold challenges inbuildingabetterfuturewhilemaintainingoursolidarity.17

GermanyandJapanwereoncemilitaristicsocietiesthatinvadedothercountries while ruthlessly engaged in thought control and xenophobicpersecutions of their own citizens. This led to ultranationalistabsolutism, oneof the lessonsof the20th century thatwemust neverforget. Now in the 21st century, the market fundamentalism youmentionedearlierisindangerofbecominganewformofabsolutism—adevelopmenttowhichwemustputanend.

Weizsäcker:Yes,that’sright.Allowing national ideology to become an absolutism was a

characteristicofcommuniststatesinthepast.Suchdictatorshipsledtocorruptregimes.

It is important to recognize that when ideology takes priority overeverythingelse,italsonegativelyaffectstheenvironment.

Whenthestate intervenesin theprivate livesandthethoughtsof itscitizens, it not only violates their human rights, I stress that it is alsocounterproductivetobuildingarichandstrongsociety.

Whatweneed isa liberal state, in theEuropeansense.“Liberal” inthissensemeans tolerantandforgiving. Italsomeansanawarenessoflong-term public goods, investment in and maintenance of infra-structure,andstatesupportforallotheraspectsofsocietythatwouldnotprosperunderapuremarketregime.

For example, the market will never provide primary education andbasichealthcareforthepoor.Imentionedinfrastructures.Themarketswon’tbuildroads,providesewagetreatment,orlawandorder.

The market won’t create the police force we need to protect thecitizenry from criminal activity, or the public justice, or judicial andlegal systems.The stateneeds to establishandmaintain these systemsandreceiveenoughrevenuetodoso.

At the same time, markets need to be similarly tolerant of andamenabletosuchservicesthestateprovides.Theycannotbeallowedto


pursuemaximumprofitandignoretheadverseimpactthatthelogicofthemarket,whenleftunchecked,hasonpeopleandsocieties

Market fundamentalism has the tendency to lead to two very un-pleasantextremes,dictatorshipandlossoffreedom.

alternative index of wealth to gdP

Ikeda:Theglobalfinancialcrisis thatstartedin2008,triggeredbytheUSsubprimeloandebacleandthebankruptcyofLehmanBrothers,wasan immense blow and cause of great turmoil to countries around theworld.

Behindthecollapseoftrustinthefinancialsystemthatprovokedthecrisiswastheexplosiveexpansionofthehighlyspeculativemarketforderivative financial products, which far exceeded the real economy inscale,andwhenthismarketcollapsed,thedamageitcausedthreatenedtheveryfoundationsoftherealeconomy.

Though it cannot be denied that to a certain extent the pursuit ofwealth has been a driving force for social progress, the lessons of thecrisis, in which millions of people suddenly found themselves in adesperatepredicament,are thatweneed to reexamine the realpurposeoftheeconomyaswellasthetruemeaningofwealth.

InadialogueIengagedwithHazelHenderson,thefuturistoncesaid:

TheGrossNationalProduct(GNP)isamaterialmeasure.Beyonda certain level, it’s like judging adults by a growth index.Whatwewantfromadultsisnotmorephysicalgrowthbutmaturityandwisdom.18

Ifindthistobeaveryaccessiblewayofexplainingtheissue.Justaswe can’t judge a person’s trueworthonlyby their height,weneed tolookatthingsfromamultiplicityofperspectivestodeterminewhethertheyaregenuinelybeneficialforthepeopleinagivensociety.

With regard to this point, you observed: “Health, happiness andpersonal fulfillment are not of necessity closely linked to a growth inGNPoremployment.”19Instead,youurgedthatweneedamorerelevantmeasure of real wealth, which you refer to as Net Economic Welfare(NEW).

Weizsäcker:IbelievethatthetermNetEconomicWelfarecomesfromHerman Edward Daly, who used to be with theWorld Bank and is infactalsoamemberof theClubofRome.Inhiswritings,hedescribed


theincreasingdiscrepancybetweenthewelfareofthepopulaceandtheGrossDomesticProduct(GDP)ofthenation.

Anotherreport totheClubofRome,Taking Nature Into AccountbyWouter van Dieren, touches upon similar themes. These and otherthinkersarepartofaworldwidetrendtoseekalternativemeasurestotheGDP. The EU in 2011, I believe, organized a conference in Brusselsentitled “Beyond GDP.” The German Bundestag has created a StudyCommission on Growth, Well-being, and Quality of Life. One of thequestionsthecommissionpursuesisnewmeasuresofwell-being.

However, the only country to actually adopt a measure of welfareother than theGDPisBhutan,withroughly700,000 inhabitants.Theyhave introduced what they call a Gross National Happiness (GNH)Index.

Actually, I have been asked to join a team led by Herman Daly’sfriend and colleague, Robert Costanza, who is presently working inAustralia,tohelpglobalizetheGNHIndex.

The teamwill look atwhat theGNH reallymeans to thepeople ofBhutan and how much of that can be transferred to other economies.Thisisasignificanteffort,Ibelieve.

Ikeda: Speaking of Bhutan, in the fall of 2011 the young king andqueen of Bhutan visited theTohoku area that had been struck by theMarch2011earthquakeandtsunami,wheretheyencouragedelementaryschool students and other residents of the area. It was a memorablegesturethatremainsfreshinthemindsofmanyJapanese.

ThereisalsogrowinginterestinJapaninBhutan’suseofGNHasameasureofthewelfareofitspeople.Asyouknow,GNHisbasedonthefour pillars of sustainable and equitable socioeconomic development,environmentalconservation, thepreservationandpromotionofculture,andgoodgovernance. It ismeasuredbysurveying thepopulaceon72specificindicatorsbasedonthosefourpillars.20

Amongthoseindicatorsaresomeinterestingquestions.Forexample:

“Dothemembersofyourfamilycareabouteachother?”“Howmuchdoyoutrustyourneighbors?”“Onanaveragehowmanydaysdidyouspendduringthepast12monthsdoingvoluntaryactivityonyourown?”“Doyouplanttreesaroundyourfarmorhouses?”“Rate the performance of the central government in reducing thegapbetweenrichandpoor.”“Towhatextentdoyoutrustmedia?”21


Hereinliesthenotionthat,whileeconomicgrowthandsocialdevel-opment are vital to a country and her people, these factors must beevaluated in the context of harmonious relationships with the naturalenvironment,traditionalculture,familyandfriends,andthecommunity.

Buddhism serves as the foundationof traditionalBhutanese culture,and the concept behind the GNH to find the proper balance betweenmaterial and spiritual well-being reflects, I believe, the BuddhistteachingoftheMiddleWaythattranscendspolarextremes.

ConsideringthefactorsbuiltintotheGNH,onecanseeanunderlyingBuddhist spirit of mutual interdependence and support, as well as thephilosophyofstrivingtocreateacommunitybuiltonmutualrespect.

Lookingback inhistory,KingAshoka (r. c.268–232B.C.E.)of theMauryaEmpireinancientIndiagovernedhisdominionwiththeteach-ingsofShakyamuniashisguide.

After experiencing terrible regret at the large numbers killed in hismilitary assaults on other kingdoms, Ashoka underwent a profoundchangeofheartandactivelyadoptedvariouspoliciesforthewelfareofhis people. He provided relief to the poor, established hospitals andparks, had wells dug and roads built, and also had trees planted andencouraged the cultivation of medicinal herbs. He instituted fair andegalitariantreatmentunderthelawandprotectedfreedomofreligion.Inthe area of economics, he encouraged a life of restraint and frugality,onedrawingsatisfactionfrommodestmeansandresources.

All of these policies are based on such Buddhist principles asdependent origination, compassion, and the Middle Way. Ashoka ex-tendedtheseprinciplestoprotectanimalsandtherestofnatureaswell.

Ashokafirmlybelievedthattheking(thatis,politicalleaders)shouldrule by Dharma—the principle of a right life—and had the duty topromotethehappinessofhissubjects—thepeople.

Thefirstandforemostdutyofthoseengagedingovernmentshouldbetobuildasocietyinwhichpeoplecanexperiencehappiness,ratherthanseek to establish a nation’s greatness by military or economic ag-grandizement.ThisisaprinciplethatissurelyjustasimportantnowasitwasinAshoka’sday,differentasthetwoperiodsofhistorymaybe.

While questions remain whether GNH may be applied as presentlyconstructed to nations other than Bhutan, it will be interesting to seewhat conclusions Robert Costanza and his team arrive at.At the veryleast, my hope is that the way will open to achieve genuine socialprogressby incorporating theGNH indexor similar indicesof humanhappinessanddignity.


Weizsäcker:Iagree.AsidefromtheGNHusedinBhutan,HermanDalyandWoutervan

Dieren, whom I mentioned earlier, as well as Manfred Max-Neef,another member of the Club of Rome, have offered brilliant ideas onthissubject.

Why, in spite of this, is no contemporary political leader (with theexceptionofBhutan)willingtoadoptanynewmeasureofwealth?

Myanswer to thatquestion isveryclearandconcrete.Employmentand fiscal income are two politically very important parameters, andtheyareregardedbypoliticalleadersasthetoppriorities.

ItisuniversallyassertedthattheeconomictroublesafflictingGreeceatpresentcanonlybeovercomewitheconomicgrowth.

Unemployment has reached disastrous levels in southern Europetoday.Insuchasituation,peopledonothopeforhappiness,theyhopefor economic growth, and find their hope for the future in that.Generally,economicgrowthhashighpriorityinsituationsofeconomiccrisis.

Thenext question is:Howcanweharmonizehappinesswith stablepublicfinanceandsteadyemployment?Unfortunately, thosewhohavestudiedalternatives toGNPasameasureofwelfarehavenotyetdealtwithorconsideredthisproblem.

imPortance of the informal economy

Ikeda: In the conclusion to Earth Politics, you speak of the need tomovebeyonddiscussionsofeconomicpolicytoaddresstheseissuesonboth a deeper and more encompassing level from a civilizationalperspective.

Inthatcontext,yousaythatwhiletheideaofworkhasbeenreducedin today’s world to wage-earning labor, there is a need to recognizethe importance of such forms of self-motivated work (Eigenarbeit) aschildcareandsocialactivities:

Finally, and above all, even now the formal economy based onemploymentwouldbe totallyhelpless if the ‘informal sector’ didnot still exist. Sleeping, eating, loving and bringing up childrenarenotsubordinateactivitieswecoulddowithoutbuttheindispen-sable foundation of all human existence. Economic theory has ashockingtendencytorepressthissimplefact.22

Yougoontosaythat“theformalandinformaleconomyoughtonce


againtobeonaparwitheachother,”23whichwouldrepresentamajorsteptowardanewmodelofwealth.

In that connection, I’d like to ask you your thoughts on the worldsituationtodaywithregardtotheinformaleconomy.

Weizsäcker:Myobservation is that this informal economy is actuallystrongerinpoorcountriesandintheUSthanitisinGermany.

The reasons for this in poor countries are simple. If people areimpoverished,iftheyhaveverylittlemoney,thebettersurvivalstrategyistodosomegardeningandcookingoftheirowninsteadofwaitingonmoneytobuythingsorservices.

Yet,politiciansofdevelopingcountries ingeneral,andamong thoserunning the international agencies and organizations promotingdevelopment, see it as a goal to sever the attachment to the informaleconomythatcitizensofpoorcountrieshave.

Thisassumptionismadebecause,historically,overcomingtheinfor-malsectorhasbeen theroad toprosperity,under the imperativeof thedivisionoflabor,inEurope,Japan,andothercountries.

ThemostextremeformofthishasmanifesteditselfasTaylorism,orscientificmanagement;inlessextremeform,itisthedivisionoflaborasarticulatedbyAdamSmith(1723–90)—inotherwords,itisgoodforthebakertomakemorebreadthanhecanconsume,becauseinsodoinghefrees others from the need to bake bread, and they can turn theirenergiestootheroccupations,suchasbeingbarbers,farmers,andotherprofessions.

The insight has been credited since the 18th century with bringingprosperitytomanycountries,andislikewiseregardedasindispensableforplacingdevelopingcountriesonthepathtoeconomicgrowth.

This economic model, however, must be recognized as inherentlyantagonistictotheinformalsector.

Sincetheinformalsectoroftheeconomyhasbeenregardedasbeingantithetical to genuine economic development, one cannot talk re-alisticallyaboutarevivaloftheinformalsectorwithoutknowingwhyitwasdestroyed.

IntheUS,thesituationisdifferentfromdevelopingcountries.Thereyou have a very weak state. Therefore there is a substantial loss ofpublicgoods,which,asyouwillremember,marketsneverproduce.

In thissituation,wheresomepeopleamassgreatwealth, their senseofpersonal responsibility leads them todounpaid civilwork for theircommunity,church,andallkindsofothervenuesandcauses,substitut-ing for the public sector, which would shoulder those functions in


GermanyorinJapan,wherethepublicsectorstillworks.Thesetwocasesofthestrengthoftheinformalsectoroftheeconomy

need tobedistinguished.Thedevelopingcountries’ situation is a littlebit more like Germany in the 18th century, and from the Americansituation where the state was in a very good situation in the days ofFranklin D. Roosevelt (1882–1945), Abraham Lincoln (1809–65), orThomasJefferson(1743–1826).ButafterJimmyCarter,withtheadventof Ronald Reagan (1911–2004), the state was deliberately weakened;thatwasReagan’scredo.

Today, theUSneedsall thoseunpaidservices,becausethestatecanno longer provide them. Still, we believe what we wrote in Earth Politics:inordertoreestablishprosperityoutsidetheeconomicmeasure-mentofGNP,theinformalsectorisnecessary.

Ikeda:Thekey tograsping the importanceof theeconomy’s informalsector, as I see it, is the concept of self-motivated work you spoke ofearlier. It isutterlydisassociatedfromanyself-interest inwhichremu-nerationisnotaconsideration,thekindoflaboryoualonechooseandevaluate.Inadditiontobeing“workthatbelongstoyou,thatyoumostlyshape yourself, and that may also shape you,” it is also work that is“doneforyourfamilyorforyourself,foryourneighbors,andforfuturegenerations.”24

While work for wages—paid labor—may alienate us from ourhumanity or demean our dignity and sense of personal worth, self-motivatedwork,thoughinmostcasesunpaid,isasourceofself-worthand self-validation and instills a feeling of fulfillment from havinghelpedourfamilymembersandothersinourlives.

Itseemstomethattheinitiativeinformingsuchself-motivatedworkis consonant with a life lived in accord with the Buddhist spirit ofcompassion.

TheBuddhistconceptofcompassioncontainstwoaspects:thedesiretosharejoywithothersandbringabouttheirwell-beingandhappiness(maitrı )andthedesiretoembracethesufferingofothersasone’sownand ameliorate their anguish (karuna). Maitrı, moreover, derives fromthewordmitra,orfriend.

And in describing the importance of compassion, Shakyamuni em-ployed the simile of a mother’s feelings—the very epitome of self-motivatedwork: “Just as amotherwouldprotectheronly child at theriskofherownlife,evenso,lethimcultivateaboundlesshearttowardsallbeings.”25

Nichiren also says, “‘Joy’ means that oneself and others together


experiencejoy”26aswellas,“bothoneselfandotherstogetherwilltakejoyintheirpossessionofwisdomandcompassion.”27Thus,thejoythatemergesfromtheinnermostdepthsofourliveswhenweact,notmerelyforourselvesbutforthesakeofothers,isthegreatestofalljoys.

Ifeelthatthisjoyinlifeandthetiesbetweenhumanbeingsastheyshare one another’s sufferings and travails is greatly diminished insocietytoday.

Indistinctiontothattrend,inFactor Fouryouciteproviding“asnugharbour for children in their time of growing up and exploring theworld”28asoneimportantaspectoftheinformalsector.Youunderscoretheneedtoreaffirmthesignificanceoftheinformalsectorasaplaceinwhichpeopleknoweachotherverywell(whichcannotbemeasuredbymarketvalue)andshapetheircommunalsocietywithasharedcommit-ment.

You go on to describe the informal sector as a safe haven thatincludesnotonly the familybutourneighborhoods, schools, the localshopsandstoresofourtowns,oureducationalandreligiousinstitutions,our recreational clubs, and all other social gatherings. I am struck bythisdescription, for I feel it couldalsobe applied to theSokaGakkaiInternational (SGI). As the Buddhist lay organization, the SGI is ac-tively engaged in promoting strong, warm, and supportive humanrelations among individuals of all races and ethnic groups, ages, andprofessionsincountriesandcommunitiesaroundtheworld.

Fromthatperspectiveaswell,Ibelieveself-motivatedworknotonlyelevatespeople’sself-worthbutalsoplaysanincreasinglycrucialroleinreinforcing human relationships. I understand your wife Christine vonWeizsäckeristheonewhodevelopedthisideaofself-motivatedwork.

Weizsäcker:Yes,thiswasmywife’sterm.ShecreatedthetermEigen-arbeit,Ibelieve,in1968orso,quiteearlyinthediscussion.

In the later 1970s, when we were living in Kassel, we becamefriendswithIvanIllich(1926–2002). Illichwasfascinatedby the termbecausehislifelongthemewasthealienationofpeoplebytheirprofes-sionalimperatives.

HewroteabookcalledDeschooling Society,inwhichhearguedthatpeople don’t only learn from schools, they learn by themselves infamilies,inringsoffriendship.Theyalsolearnsomethingatschool,butschoolsdonothaveamonopolyonlearning.

Forhim,Eigenarbeitwasanexciting,emancipatory termof the late1970s,butunfortunatelyitdidnothavethetransformativeeffecthehadhoped.


Thetrendofprofessionalizationcontinuesunabated.Themainreasonisthatpeoplewantjobs,andclassicaljobsaredisappearing,sonewjobsarecreatedbyprofessionalizingfunctionswhich,inearliertimes,weredone inside the family. A case in point is pre-kindergarten daycarecenterswithprofessionalnursesandteachers.

They did not exist when I was a three-year-old child, and nobodycared,butnowitisregardedasessential.

Billionsofdollarsandeurosarebeingspentinordertocreatejobsformenandwomen.ItisalwaystheimperativeofcreatingjobsthatholdsbackEigenarbeit.

Professionalization and Eigenarbeit are antagonistic. In a sense,undertoday’semploymentconditions,professionaldaycarecentersareablessingforwomen,allowingthemtowork.

reexamining concePt of work

Ikeda: Illich’s book Shadow Work, in which he discussed the manykinds of work that are indispensable to daily life but are performedwithoutpay, suchashouseworkandchildcare,waspublished in1981.Heknewandbecamefriendswithyouandyourwifepriortothat,whichIfindquiteintriguing.

In an interview conducted later in his life, Illich reflected on thosetimes and commented: “Nevertheless work was increasingly identifiedwith paid work, and all other work was considered some kind of toilwhichcouldbeidentifiedthroughonlyonecharacteristic:thatitwasnot paid,ornotproperlypaid.”29

Inthesameinterviewhefurthernoted:“Isaidthat inacommodity-intensive society thehuman laborput into a usevalue is split up, onepartisunpaid,theotherpaid,andit’stheunpaidpartwhichcreatesthepossibilityofpayingwages.”30

I can’t help but feel that this seemingly inexorable trend of con-temporary society is narrowing and distorting the true meaning ofhuman labor. It reveals that the spiritual nature of humanity is in factmiredintheprocessofdevolving.

Dr.Schumacher,whomwementionedearlier, isknownforhiskeenobservationoftherootoftheillnessafflictingmodernindustrialsociety.Inourefforttoenvisionasustainableeconomybasedonrespectfortheworthanddignityofhumanity,IthinkweneedtoheedonceagainthemessagethatSchumacherstressedinSmall Is Beautiful:

If it cannot get beyond its vast abstractions, the national income,


the rate of growth, capital/output ratio, input-output analysis,labour mobility, capital accumulation; if it cannot get beyondall this and make contact with the human realities of poverty,frustration, alienation, despair, breakdown, crime, escapism,stress, congestion, ugliness, and spiritual death, then let us scrapeconomicsandstartafresh.

Aretherenotindeedenough‘signsofthetimes’toindicatethatanewstartisneeded?31

Weizsäcker:ThewordsofDr.SchumacherthatyouhavejustcitedareverysimilartoouranalysisoftheprobleminFactor Four.

Therewewarned:“Thetimemayhavecometorecognisewhatwaslost with the erosion of the informal sector.... The modern ills ofloneliness, unrest, vandalism, drug addiction and related crime mayhavemuchtodowiththedeclineoftheinformalsector.”32

The still prevailing belief among the political leadership in allsocietiesintheworldistheneedtocreateemployment.InGermanyandmanyothernations,theideathatjobcreationisanissueofthehighestpriorityhasbecomethedeeplyentrenchedpoliticalconsensus.

This situation persists in spite of the many sacrifices it demands. Itwill take another 50 years, I fear, before the political establishmentbegins toawakento therealityofhowmuchisbeingsacrificedonthealtarofjobcreation.

Inchapter11ofFactor Five,wedoaddressthisproblemtoamodestdegreebyofferingacompromise.Wesuggesteddesigningasociety inwhich unemployment is overcome not by an unchecked economicgrowthbutbysharingjobs.

This actually is an idea that my wife proposed in discussions withIllichinthe1970s.Shesaid,“Whynotgiveallpeople,frominfantsto90-yearolds,womenandmenalike,thesameidenticalpermittoworkinquantitativeincrements?”

Alittlecalculationwillillustratethisidea.LetussaythatinGermany,with80millionpeople,thereare40millionjobs—halfasmanyjobsaspeople. In reality there are fewer jobs, butwe’ll adopt this formula tosimplifythemath.

One jobwouldbedefinedas40workinghoursperweekand someholidays. Then, by definition, everybody’s entitlement would be 20hoursperweek,frominfantstotheelderly.

Infantsdon’twork,ofcourse.Butthismodelincorporatesasysteminwhicheverypersonisprovidedtherighttobuyorsellhisorherworkentitlement on the labor market. Parents can monetize their child’s


entitlement to help out the family budget, for example. Conversely,children can do the same when caring for their elderly parents,exchanging the latter’s entitlement of 40 hours of labor into cash.Another permutation of this is that a parent could halve his or herworkload to20hours tocare foran infant,whileachildcoulddo thesametocareforhisorherparent.

Insuchasociety,therewouldbenolackofemploymentforanyonewho wanted to work, no desperate unemployment. Everybody wouldhaveherorhisentitlementandcoulduseit.

This concept of job-sharing, to which we allude in chapter 11 ofFactor Five,wasinspiredbyTravailler Deux Heures Par Jour(ToWorkTwoHoursPerDay),abookpublishedinFranceinthe1970s.

Twohoursaday is about10hoursaweek—onlyhalf20hoursperweek—buttheauthorscalculatedthat10hoursissufficientforsurvival.

Ofcourse thismodelof job-sharing seemscompletelyutopian fromtheperspectiveofcontemporarysociety.Ouraiminpresentingitwastostresstheneedtoovercomethefearofunemploymentthatisthreateningall other values, including the value of family, of freedom, as well asreligiousvalues.Tochangesociety,westronglyemphasizedtheneedtotriumphoverthefearofunemployment.

Providing PurPoseful work for the elderly

Ikeda:Youraisesomefascinatingquestions.In connection with the issue of labor, I would like to discuss the

raison d’etreofanindividualinagrayingsociety.Givenourrapidlyagingpopulationtoday,it istimetoexaminewith

evengreaterurgencywhatmakesforabetter,morefulfillinglife.Atthesame time, society as a whole also needs to take steps to make itpossiblefortheelderlytoengageinpurposefulworkandremainactiveparticipantsintheworldaroundthem.

IamremindedofsomethingthatArnoldJ.Toynbee(1889–1975),theBritishhistorianwithwhomIengaged inadialogue, toldme.Hesaidthatevenaftertheageof80hewouldtacklethedailychallengesofhisresearchbasedonhisfavoritemotto—Laboremus,Latinfor“Letusgettowork.”

InspiredbyDr.Toynbee’sexample,IalsospendmydayswritingandencouragingourSGImembersaroundtheworld.

Though you’re in your 70s, Dr. Weizsäcker, you continue to bevigorousandinhighspirits,withtheworldasyourstage.

What kind of society do you think we should build to enable the


elderly toshinewithasenseofpurposeandself-worth,and lead fullysatisfyinglives?

Weizsäcker: The next important step in Germany and Japan is toencourage people to work longer.This means to create jobs and part-timejobsthatareparticularlysuitedfortheelderly.

Therearetwodifferentaspectstothisissue.Oneisthemathematicalproblemofprovidingsocialsecurityfortheelderly.

Let’ssaythatinGermanywestopworking,ontheaverage,attheageof 63. But demographers say that our life span is expanding by aboutonemonthperyear.Thatmeansthatpensionsthatwecandrawwillbediminishedbyone-twelfth everyyear, resulting in the impoverishmentoftheelderly.Mathematicallyspeaking,itisclearthatwesimplyhavetoworklonger.

When a social security pension system for the elderly was firstintroducedinGermany,inthedaysofOttovonBismarck(1815–98),thetimespanbetweenentry into thepensionsystemanddeathused tobeaboutfiveyears.Today it is something like20years, or four times aslong.

One answer to this problem is represented by the question that youandDr.Toynbee, aswell asmanyothers, raise: “Why shouldwe stopworkingbecauseweareold?Aslongaswehavethecapacitytowork,whyshouldn’twe?”

Thetradeunions,however,arehighlycriticalofthisidea.Accordingtothem,thenumberofjobsoramountofworkisazero-sumgame:thelonger an individual works, the more unemployment that individualcreatesamongtheyoung.Ithinkthisiswrong,however.Itisnotazero-sumgame.

Actually, a little anecdote may illustrate what I’m saying. When Ibegan working as the dean, the chief executive officer, of the BrenSchoolofEnvironmentalScienceandManagementattheUniversityofCaliforniainSantaBarbara,Iwas66.

IwouldaskmycolleaguesattheUniversityofCaliforniawhynooneaskedhowoldIwas.Theiranswerwasthatitwasdiscriminatorytoasksuchaquestion.

The reason no one could ask my age, they explained, is because itcouldbegroundsforterminatingmyemploymentbasedonmyage,andwas therefore regarded as “ageist.” But I asked whether I was takingawaysomeyoungerAmerican’sjob.

Theirresponsetothiswas,“ThatisatypicallyGermanquestion.WedonotthinkthatwayinAmerica.Accordingtoourwayofthinking,if


youdothejobproperlyyouwillbecreatingnewjobsforthetenyoungAmericansayear.”

AndthatiswhatinfactIdid.Duringmytenureofthreeyearsthere,the school gained some 20 million dollars in endowments and well-funded scientific projects. Based on interest rates, that amount canfinancetheemploymentofaboutthirtypeople.

Inmypresentsituation,IamactuallypayingmoreincometaxesthanI am receiving from my pensions.This means that in purely financialtermsmypresentworkisgoodforthestate.I’mnotaliability;Iamanassettothestate.

The other aspect is that in addition to the division of labor by pro-fessionthatpresentlyexists,weneedadivisionoflaborbasedonageaswell.Thishasyettobedeveloped.

Withregardtothepensionsystem,myansweristwofold:weneedtoprovide gainful employment for the elderly so that added value iscreatedtoavoidtheimpoverishmentofeithertheelderlyortheyoung.

Theyoungarebeing impoverishedbyexcessive taxation,asubstan-tialportionof it supporting the social securitypension systemand thenon-working elderly. To lower taxes, we need to actively create jobsappropriatefortheelderly,withtheappropriateremunerationandmorefreedominhours.

I’mveryhappynowthatIdon’thavetoleavemyhomeat8:00andbeatmyofficeinthemorning.IcangetupwhenIwant,andstillIworkmorethanmostpeopledointheir40s.Thisfreedomtocreateone’sownscheduleisahighvalue,andsatisfactionishigh.DoingthingsthatIcandobetterthantheyoungisalsoagoodthing.

Ikeda:Yourrecordofachievement isasremarkableas it isadmirable.Youhavebeenactiveinyourserviceasaneducator,havemademeaning-ful contributions to solving global environmental problems, and stillshouldernumerousimportantresponsibilities.

Yoursuggestionsforourgrayingsocietyarecertainlynoteworthyandthoughtprovoking.Ibelieveit is imperativeforeverysocietytocreateanenvironmentinwhichtheelderlycanworkwithpurposeandsatisfac-tionandleadalifeofenduringhope.

Ibelievethereisnogreaterjoyandfulfillmentinlifethantobeabletocontinue toparticipate insocietyandcontribute insomeway to thehappinessofothersandtheworld,nomatterhowoldoneis.

Dr. Toynbee said: “We must all become participants, whatever ourdegree of ability, because man is a social animal. We cannot changethat.”33


Ofcourseworkingisnottheonlymeansofsocialinvolvement.Ihaveseenmanyindividualswho,afterretiringfromtheirjobsandresolvingtospend the restof their liveswith thesamepassionandcommitmenttheyhad in theiryouth,strive for thebettermentof theircommunities,societies,andtheworldingeneral.

Whenoneaspirestoleadatrulyfulfillinglife,Ithinkthefreedomtocreateone’sownschedulethatyoumentionedisvital.

Having time to spare isnot the sameas freedom,and lacking sparetimeisnotnecessarilyarestriction.

What matters is to have the will to better oneself. True freedom, Ibelieve, shines through that unceasing process of self-development. Inthatsense,no life ishappier thanone inwhichpeoplecanspend theirfinal years continuing to improve and elevate themselves and devotetimetostrivingforagreatandmeaningfulpurpose.

Dr. Toynbee said that one remains young as long as one remainsinterestedinwhatwillhappeninthefuture.34

I pledge to continue working with the utmost vigor with you, Dr.Weizsäcker, for the generations of young people who are to follow,making each and every day count to the fullest as we search for thesurestpathwithwhichhumanitymayforgeonintothefuture.

NOTES

1 Cf.UnitedNationsEnvironmentProgramme(UNEP),“HighLevelPanelReleasesRecommendations forWorld’s Next DevelopmentAgenda,” ‹http://www.unep.org/newscentre/default.aspx?DocumentID=2716&ArticleID=9516›(August7,2013). 2 Cf. Daisaku Ikeda, “2013 Peace Proposal,” ‹http://www.daisakuikeda.org/assets/files/peaceproposal2013.pdf›(January10,2014). 3 Ernst Ulrich vonWeizsäcker, Earth Politics (London: Zed Books Ltd., 1994), p.211. 4 Cf. Ministry ofAgriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, ‹http://www.maff.go.jp/j/shokusan/recycle/syoku_loss/pdf/0902shokurosu.pdf›(January10,2014). 5 Ibid. 6 Cf.Translated from Japanese. Katsumi Hirano, Keizai tairiku afurika (EconomicContinent:Africa)(Tokyo:Chuokoron-Shinsha,Inc.,2013),pp.140–41. 7 ErnstFriedrichSchumacher,Small Is Beautiful: A Study of Economics as if People Mattered(London:Blond&BriggsLtd.,1973),pp.103–04. 8 Cf. Daisaku Ikeda, “2013 Peace Proposal,” ‹http://www.daisakuikeda.org/assets/files/peaceproposal2013.pdf›(March26,2014). 9 Schumacher,Small Is Beautiful,p.107. 10 Nichiren,The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin,vol.II(Tokyo:SokaGakkai,2006),p.842. 11 Ibid.,vol.I(Tokyo:SokaGakkai,1999),p.644. 12 Ibid. 13 UNDP,“BeyondScarcity:Power,PovertyandtheGlobalWaterCrisis,”‹http://hdr.


undp.org/en/media/HDR06-complete.pdf›(August7,2013). 14 Ibid. 15 Cf. UN, “The Millennium Development Goals Report 2012,” ‹http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals/pdf/MDG%20Report%202012.pdf›(August7,2013). 16 TranslatedfromGerman.ErnstU.vonWeizsäcker,KarlsonHargroves,andMichaelSmith,Faktor Fünf: Die Formel für nachhaltiges Wachstum (FactorFive:The formulaforsustainablegrowth)(Munich:Droemer,2010),p.334. 17 Cf.TranslatedfromJapanese.Weizsäcker nihon koenroku, rekishini mewo tozasuna(Richard vonWeizsäcker’s Lectures in Japan:We Must Not Shun the Lessons ofHistory)(Tokyo:IwanamiShoten,1996),pp.130–31. 18 Hazel Henderson and Daisaku Ikeda, Planetary Citizenship: Your Values, Beliefs and Actions Can Shape a Sustainable World (California: Middleway Press, 2004), p.156. 19 Weizsäcker,Earth Politics,p.198. 20 Cf.TheCentreforBhutanStudies,“AnextensiveanalysisofGNHIndex,”‹http://www.grossnationalhappiness.com/wpcontent/uploads/2012/10/An%20Extensive%20Analysis%20of%20GNH%20Index.pdf›(August7,2013). 21 Ibid. 22 Weizsäcker,Earth Politics,p.197. 23 Ibid.,p.199. 24 Ibid.,p.201. 25 The Sutta-Nipata,trans.H.Saddhatissa(London:CurzonPress,1994),p.16. 26 The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings (Tokyo: Soka Gakkai, 2004), p.146. 27 Ibid. 28 ErnstvonWeizsäcker,AmoryBLovinsandLHunterLovins,Factor Four: Doubl-ing Wealth, Halving Resource Use(London:Earthscan,1998),p.295. 29 DavidCayley,Ivan Illich in Conversation(Toronto:Anansi,1992),p.155. 30 Ibid.,p.157. 31 Schumacher,Small Is Beautiful,p.68. 32 Weizsäcker, Factor Four,p.295. 33 Arnold Toynbee and Kei Wakaizumi, Surviving the Future (London: OxfordUniversityPress,1971),p.89. 34 TranslatedfromJapanese.ArnoldToynbee,Nihon no katsuro(ForJapantoSurvive)(Tokyo:PHPInstitute,Inc.,1974),p.162.


Ernst Ulrich von WeizsäckerEnvironmental scientist. Presently co-president of the Club ofRome, co-chair of the UNEP International Resource Panel and amemberof theEuropeanAcademyofSciencesandArts.Born in1939 in Zürich, Switzerland.Weizsäcker has served as the presi-dentoftheUniversityofKassel,thedirectorattheUNCentreforScience and Technology for Development, the director of theInstitute for European Environmental Policy, and the foundingpresidentoftheWuppertalInstituteforClimate,Environment,andEnergy. He was a member of the German Bundestag and alsochaired theBundestagEnvironmentCommittee. Inaddition,he isrecognized forhis co-written report to theClubofRome, Factor Four (available in Japanese), which proposes steps to doublewealth while halving resource use. He is a prolific writer whoseworksincludeEarth PoliticsandFactor Five, theJapaneseeditionsofwhichhave alsobeenpublished.Hewas awarded theGermanEnvironment Prize of the German Federal Environment Founda-tion,theCommander’sCrossoftheOrderofMeritoftheFederalRepublicofGermany,andmanyothers.

Daisaku IkedaPresident of the Soka Gakkai International (SGI), a lay Buddhistorganizationwithmorethan12millionmembersworldwide,IkedawasborninTokyoin1928.HehasfoundedtheSoka(value-creat-ing) school system, running from kindergarten through graduateschool at universities inTokyo and California, U.S.A., an educa-tionalphilosophynowpracticedinschoolsaroundtheworld.Heisalsofounderofvariousculturalandacademicinstitutions,fromtheMin-On ConcertAssociation and Tokyo FujiArt Museum to theToda Institute for Global Peace and Policy Research. He hasofferedenvironmentalproposalsonvariousoccasions,thelatestofwhichisaproposalattheUNConferenceonSustainableDevelop-ment(Rio+20)inJune2012.Basedonanabidingfaithindialogue,Ikeda has met with citizens, artists, thinkers, and world leaders,exchangingviewsonadiverserangeoftopics.Manyofthesemeet-ingshaveledtothepublicationofdialogues,startingwithChoose Life with the British historian Arnold Toynbee. He has received350academichonors(asofMay2014)fromuniversitiesandotherinstitutes worldwide and is an honorary member of the Club ofRome.

Download - Special Series: The Challenge of Global …the challenge of global transformation (1) 5 approach, and called for such efforts as guaranteeing “a decent life for all” the inhabitants

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