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| HRD News Letter | March 2010, Vol.25, Issue:12 16 Silver Jubilee Series

INTERVIEW WITH Dr.MARSHALL

GOLDSMITHAs my cab stops in front of the hotel Trident( erstwhile Oberoi Towers ) the Arabian Sealooks black and gray and the sky is littlecloudy. It looks as if it may rain. Tridentreminds me of the terrorist attack of 26/11where this hotel was a victim and a witnessto that tragedy." Good Morning!" Thesecurity guard at the gate brings me back tothe present. The young lady at the receptionwishes me with both the hands folded in atypical Indian way.

It is 6.00 am. I sit in the lobby waiting for Dr.Marshall Goldsmith the top most executive

coach in the world. My appointment with himis at 6.30am. There are people going for themorning walk on the Marine Drive. Some ofthem look thoughtful. May be they arethinking about the delayed monsoon . Thelobby of the Trident is as majestic as it was.There is a soothing music being played inthe lobby and the a fragrance which fills theplace completely.

'Good Morning'! Marshall comes out of theelevator exactly at 6.30 am. gives a genuinesmile and bends forward as he shakes myhand. He looks very fresh and charged up!As we both move to the "Verandah" for an

early breakfast, it is difficult to believe thatthe leading coach in the world who coachesthe top CEOs of the world could be so simpleand unassuming. Marshall makes mecomfortable and as we both are havingcoffee, I start interacting with him.

MR (MAKARAND REGE) :Marshall, thanksa lot for your time. How did you get intocoaching?

MG (Dr. MARSHALL GOLDDMITH) :Theway I got into business was largelyaccidental. I worked with a very famous

Interview with

Dr. Marshall Goldsmith

person, Paul Hersey.. He gave me anopportunity. I learned what he did. I was acollege professor, and he offered me a jobmaking 1000 USD a day. I was making15,000 USD a year at that time. Becausehe was double booked, he asked if I wantedto deliver a session in executive educationfor a very large corporation and I said "Signme up". I did the session. It was extremelysuccessful. And that is how I got intoexecutive education business. So in that

sense it was very accidental.

How I got into the coaching business wasalso accidental. I was working with a CEO.He said, "We have this young guy who issmart, dedicated, hardworking, driven toachieve, entrepreneurial, gets results,stubborn opinionated, and all that. It wouldbe worth a fortune to us to turn the guyaround. Do you think you could help us?" Isaid "Sign me up" He said "I don't think itwould work." Then I came up with my ideaand I said "I will work with him for a year. If

he gets better, pay me. If he does not get

better it is free. "He said, "Sold ! " That is

how I got into coaching. Both of those werereasonably accidental. (*Dr. Paul Hersey is

a recognized authority on training and

development in leadership, management,

and selling and is best known for his work

regarding situational leadership.)

MR : What type of coaching do you do?

Please explain behavioral coaching.

MG : There are several different types of

coaching. We only do behavioural coaching

for successful executives not strategic

coaching, life planning or organizational

change coaching. We only focus on

changing leadership behaviour. If our clientshave other needs, we refer them to othercoaches.

We first get an agreement with our coachingclients and their managers on two keyvariables.

1) What are the key behaviours that willmake the biggest positive change inincreased leadership effectiveness and

2) Who are the key stakeholders who candetermine (six to eighteen months later) ifthis change has occurred.

Mr. Makarand Rege is CEO & Executive Coach, Siddhartha Learning Systems, Mumbai.E-Mail: sidlearn@gmail.com

We then get paid only after our coachingclients have achieved a positive change inkey leadership behaviour as determined bystakeholders.

People often ask, can executives change"their behaviour?" The answer is definitelyyes. If they did not change, we could neverget paid (and we almost always get paid) Atthe top of major organizations even a smallpositive change in behaviour can have a bigimpact. From an organizational perspectivethe fact that the executive is trying to changeanything (and is being a role model forpersonal development) may be even moreimportant than what the executive is tryingto change, one key message that I havegiven every CEO that I coach is "to helpothers develop start with yourself ."

MR : Please explain feedforward process.

MG : Providing feedback has long beenconsidered to be an essential skill forleaders. As they strive to achieve the goalsof the organization, employees need to knowhow they are doing. They need to know if

their performance is in line with what theirleaders expect. They need to learn what theyhave done well and what they need tochange. Traditionally this information hasbeen communicated in the form of"downward feedback" from leaders to theiremployees. Just as employees needfeedback from leaders, leaders can benefitfrom feedback from their employees.

Interv

iew by Mr. Makarand Rege

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| HRD News Letter | March 2010, Vol.25, Issue:12 17Silver Jubilee Series

Employees can provide useful input on theeffectiveness of procedures and processesas well as input to managers on theireffective leadership. This "upward feedbackhas become increasingly common with theadvent of 360 degree multiraterassessments".

But there is a fundamental problem with alltypes of feedback. It focuses on the past,on what has already occurred - not on theinfinite variety of opportunities that canhappen in the future. As such, feedback canbe limited and static as opposed toexpansive and dynamic.

Over the past several years, I have observedmore than ten thousand leaders as theyparticipated in a fascinating experientialexercise. In the exercise, each participantis each asked to provide feedforword thatis, to give someone else suggestions forfuture and help as much as they can. In thesecond role, they are asked to acceptfeedforward - that is to listen to the

suggestions for the future and learn as muchas they can. The exercise typically lasts for10 - 15 minutes, and the average participanthas 6 - 7 dialogue sessions. Feedfowardhelps people envision and focus on apositive future not a failed past. By givingideas on how they can be even moresuccessful we can increase their chancesof achieving success in future.

MR :Have you done any research that hasdocumented how leaders can changebehaviour?

MG :We reviewed leadership developmentprogramme in eight major corporations.Although all eight companies had the same

overarching goals - to determine the desiredbehaviors for leaders in their organizationsand to help leaders increase theireffectiveness by better aligning actualpractices with these desired behaviors, theyused different leadership developmentmethodologies : offsite training versus onsitecoaching, short duration versus longduration, internal coaches versus externalcoaches and traditional classroom basedtraining versus on the job interaction.

Rather than just evaluating "participanthappiness" at the end of the programmeeach of the eight companies measured theparticipant's perceived increase inleadership effectiveness over time."Increased effectiveness" was notdetermined by the partic ipants ; it wasassessed by preselected coworkers andstakeholders.

Time and again, one variable emerged ascentral to the achievement to positive longterm change: The participant's on goinginteraction and follow up with colleagues.Leaders who discussed their improvementpriorities with their coworkers and thenregularly followed up with these coworkersshowed striking improvement.

Leaders who did not have on going dialogue

with colleagues showed improvement thatbarely exceeded random chance. This wastrue whether the leader had an externalcoach, an internal coach or no coach. It wasalso true whether the participants went to atraining programme for five days, went forone day or did not attend training programmeat all.

The development of leaders, we haveconcluded, is a contact sport.

MR : What is your experience of working inIndia.

MG : During my trip to India; I had theopportunity to work with many dedicatedprofessionals at the Indian School ofBusiness (ISB) in Hyderabad.

I love teaching in India. Every participant inmy programme was eager to learn. Their isnothing that a teacher loves more thandedicated students who want to learn. I wasamazed at the sincerity and interest shownby participants in my course. There wasabsolutely none of the cynicism orskepticism I sometimes encounter in theU.S. or Western Europe. As a rule, peoplein India have a deep respect for educationand for educators. At the end of the two daysI was given a lovely card with a personalthank you note from each participant. I wasvery moved by their gratitude.

The world has changed a lot in the past fewyears. In the past brilliant students like theones I met at ISB, all dreamed of going toAmerica or Europe, for a quality education.Now they can get a quality education inIndia. In the past, brilliant young studentsall planned on leaving India to get great jobs.

Now they can get great jobs in India.MR : Do you have any advice for youngpeople in the current scenario?

MG : My advice to young people who arejust entering working is simple;

It is tough out there, and it is only goingto get tougher.

Forget about security.

Like it or not, even if you start out with alarge corporation, you are going to bean entrepreneur.

Make peace with reality and your life isgoing to be a lot better.

In an era of uncertainly, nothing can be takenfor granted. Young people are going to haveto develop skills and talents that make themglobally competitive. And they are going toneed to keep upgrading and changing theirskills and talents to fit the needs of an everchanging market place. My final advice.

Forget about taking a year off.

Don't spend your adult years "Findingyourself"

Unless you are rich, don't buy the flatscreen T.V. When you are poor, live lifeas a poor person, don't try to live like arich person.

And like any great entrepreneur, investyour time and money in your future.

MR :You are a Buddhist, how Buddhismhas influenced your work?

MG : You see, my approach is really moreEastern than Western. 'The Westernapproach would be more of a therapy typeapproach, focused on the past, where I sit

there and analyse your behaviour, why youare the way you are. My Buddhist philosophycan be summarized in there simple words"Be happy now," in my mind, this is heaven,this is hell and this is Nirvana, it is not, "outthere". It is "in here". The great Westerndisease is "I will be happy when thisis fueled by our prevailing art form thecommercial. The commercial says "You areUnhappy. You spend money. You becomehappy!" I don't believe that anyone canbecome happy by having more. I also don'tbelieve that anyone can become happy byhaving less. We can only find happiness andsatisfaction with what we have. Life is good

when we make it good. I also sign my emailsthis way to remind myself (and hopefully tohelp others).

My coaching philosophy is based uponBuddhist principles. I believe that we haveno "fixed identity" but instead we are everchanging. My coaching approach involveshelping people let go of the past and focuson becoming what they want to become. Ipioneered the concept called feedforwardwhich is the essence of my coachingphilosophy.

My understanding of Buddhism is Buddhasuggested that each of us test ideas and

only use the ideas that work for us (includinghis own ideas). In my coaching I askexecutives to get ideas from many sourcesand use only the ideas that work for them. Idon't try to "convince" or "make" my clientsdo anything.

As Buddha suggested we can share ourideas and let them be helpful to those whoare open to hearing us. By letting others "doonly what works for you" we can let theirpositive experience say far more than ourwords.

MR:Marshall, thanks a lot for the interview!

MG: Thank you!

As I say good bye to Marshall and present asmall book on 'Buddha' by Osho, he says"Thank You I love such books" and he doesNamaste with both his hands folded !

I come out of the hotel; the Marine Drive isin its true colours with many vehicles plyingon the road. I wave for a cab and now thesun has started shining as if trying to bathethe Maximum City in it's glow. As the cabstarts, the Arabian Sea now looks blue andI wonder how some one like MarshallGoldsmith can be so down to earth afterreaching those heights!!

Life is Good !! H