edgetalks transcript 3 february 2017, democracy, freedom and work – enabling better

NHS IQ Webinar (UKNHSI0302B)

DOMINIC:Good morning everybody, we are just about to start our Edge Talk. Is there any chance at all that you can pass me the presenter board?

Good morning everybody. We'll be giving everyone another two minutes and then we will be starting the Edge Talk.

OK, so let's get started. Good morning everyone to this month's Edge Talk. Today we have Kevin and Claire, who are discussing the topic democracy, freedom and work.

Do feel free to contribute to any of the conversations by using the WebEx chat box. Also please connect with people externally to this WebEx using the hashtag edgetalks on Twitter and using our two accounts, School for Radicals and @theedgenhs . We also have a Facebook group for the School for Health and Care Radicals and The Edge NHS so please search for those on Facebook, and join us in there. Thank you for those joining us live and for those who are watching the catch-up, we look forward to having more conversations after the session.

Just to introduce ourselves, my name is Dominic and I'll be hosting the session. We also have Paul Woodley, who is our chat room monitor and who will help with any technical sessions. Leigh Kendall will be supporting us on Twitter and bringing any conversations that are happening externally to this WebEx. And we also have our two presenters Claire Haigh and Kev Wyke. Claire is an explorer, shape and connector. She’s really good at connecting with lots of individuals, and she is the co-founder of Collaborating Out Loud. You can follow Claire on Twitter. Kevin Wyke is also the founder and director of Leap Further and is also a co-founder of Collaborating Out Loud, which you can follow on #collaboutloud. You can follow him on Twitter as well.

Now I'm going to hand over to Clare, who is going to take us off on this journey around democracy and the work place.

CLAIRE HAIGH:Thank you Dominic. I'm just delighted that Kevin and myself have this opportunity to share some of our ideas and thoughts with you around democracy, freedom, and work. And being able to provide the health and care. I'm just delighted. We want this to be a conversation, we'll check in on your social media as well. We want to do this to start the conversation around how we can think about some of this stuff differently, we would love to hear conversations around how people are doing this. Before Kev kicks off, I'm going to go over what we going to do today, how we're going to run it and then I’ll pass over to my lovely colleague, Kev.

The first place I wanted to start is around democracy, freedom, what do we mean by democratic and free organisations? Kevin is going to take you through that. I'm going to talk about the social age, the brilliant work of Julian, who I hope will be joining us in the conversation about the social age that were now living and working in. And how it is redefining how it works, and how it links in with the multi-generational workplace. Why that is important for NHS, social care, and public services.

What is the impact of that on health and care, and how can we start to do this, how do we start to make this real? And then Kevin and I will share some ideas on Collaborating Out Loud. We have co-founded this thing called Collaborating Out Loud, it is an experiment, and we want to

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share what we are learning about freedom and democracy and collaboration. Over to Kevin, who will talk about what we mean by democracy and freedom.

KEV WYKE:Thanks for that introduction. As I thought about how could I explain what I meant and what excites me about democracy at work, I realised I've had quite a journey over the last five or six years. There have been some important players in that journey, some important actors. I thought it was important to introduce you to these people who have inspired me and given me my best idea of what I think freedom at work and democracy at work is and why I think it is so important.

So the story actually starts with me. Quite obviously, none of those are me on that slide, but I have got background as a clinician in the NHS as an audiologist. I ended up my frontline NHS career in education, learning, organisational development in a very traditional organisation. I was hugely frustrated at work. It was a very traditional organisation, but had a lot of fear around it. A lot of constraints. It didn't feel like an organisation where you could really thrive. That was hugely frustrating for me. I came across this book, I'm sure many of you have come across it. It was a story about how a man took over a traditional manufacturing organisation at the age of 21, took over from his father, and how he changed it completely. How it went from very traditional hierarchical organisations to a really radical freedom based organisation. Some of the stories are really great stories. It's very real book. It doesn't glorify what he's doing, it explores a very interesting journey that he went on. Introducing some very democratic principles into a very traditional organisation. I found it very inspiring. Some examples in this book are really worth me repeating. It does indicate some of the things that are very important and what the organisation is about.

One of the things someone did during this journey is changing how the organisation works. He was trying to work out a system where the teams on the production lines set their own targets and their own quotas and their own rewards. Now others were telling him that he was absolutely mad for doing this. That the people in the workshop were lazy, or greedy. But the idea is if they were able to do this, they would understand more about how the organisation worked, they would be more committed to doing the right thing. So he did this. And surprisingly, to some people at least, they set harder targets than they would have done otherwise. They set harder quotas for themselves and continually strived to meet those quotas. And they set rewards that were appropriate for how the organisation was doing as a whole. And how their team was doing as a team. There were times where the organisation went through recession, and the decisions of the local teams were not to make people redundant, but to reduce reward. So giving people authority and power to make their own decisions.

Another thing really interesting about this company is how it promoted and hired people. Again, he gave the people power for decision-making when it came to hiring. So it was up to the people whether you are hired or not. And if you were promoted, it was the team you are aiming to join who accepted the promotional or not. In the 1980s, it was manufacture, but it gave me a new idea about how to go about it.

Now I met this bloke - I haven't had the opportunity to meet him in person, but I met this other man. I met him when he first got connected to WorldBlu. Henry is absolutely fab. He had a big smile on his face and an absolute world of energy. He told me that wasn't always the case. He



started off in a very traditional environment and there was a lot of bullying and fear. He was made redundant at one stage and then he started his own business, and then decided from then on that it would always be like that.

A couple of things that I love about it, that Henry talks about this. One thing is that at Happy Computing, you choose your own boss. I think that is amazing. You get to choose who you think will help you do your work best. So good bosses, good people, doing good work. Interestingly, the people who do not make the best managers, they do not often get asked, but they get an opportunity to do other things. You get to choose your own boss at Happy Computing.

The other thing that I really like about Henry as well, is that he gives power to absolutely everyone. If he or any of the other managing staff asking to do something, that assumes then that whatever they come up with is the right answer and they can go and do it. So there's no second-guessing. There is no asking people to come back and asking to come back and tell me what you're doing and then I'll let you know if it's right or wrong. There is an assumption of trust right from the moment that you join Happy Computing.

Another example is Bob. He's got this very dour presentation style. But what he talks about is absolutely inspirational. He works for a company you probably all know. Most of you have some of their products in hanging up in your wardrobe somewhere. He works for the company that makes Gore-Tex. I didn't know very much about that company before I met Bob. But what I found out is they are a really interesting organisation. They have small teams with a lattice structure. They have very little management structure and they are very innovative. There is an assumption there that you have been hired because you are intelligent, creative, and have ideas.

They ask you to come to the company and find out where you want to place that energy and creativity. So this lattice organisation does not have managers in the traditional sense. It has sponsors, people who can help you to make your inspiration become real.

It runs by a number of principles. There are four main principles that Bob talks about.

The freedom to choose who we come in contact with, to choose what we do in work and to choose the way we do all it.

Fairness. Fairness to each other, to everyone in the organisation and everyone outside the organisation including suppliers and the communities they work with.

Commitment. You don't get told what to do, you make your own commitment. Bob says that only works with a connection to responsibility. When you have responsibility for your commitments and the impact they might have on the organisation.

The last of the principles is consultation. If you make any decisions that might impact on the organisation then you should consult with your peers and colleagues. That does not mean you don't do it, that meant you check and ask.



Bob was really inspirational as well. I first came across this democracy movement in a book from the 1980s from Brazil and then amongst boutique companies in London. And now it can play out amongst larger companies.

The last of the people I want to introduce you to is a guy called Gary Ridge. He is an interesting Australian who I met in Miami. I was there at a conference. I was very lucky to get there. He is bonkers. He is cheesy and engaging. He is an entertaining bloke. He is the chief executive of an organisation whose mission statement is "creating lasting memories:".

He is the chief executive of WD-40, the people who make oil in cans. They actually talk about the company as being a tribe. They use tribal folklore and imagery. And Gary actually wears tribal robes. And he talks about WD-40 as a place where they make lasting memories. If you can find such passion and purpose in an organisation that makes oil, what can you do with a healthcare organisation. He is cheesy. He does talk about things you might cringe at but when they do their staff surveys, 98% of staff say they love to tell people where they work.

92% say they have freedom as to how they accomplish their objectives. And 99% say my opinions and values are a good fit at WD-40. What would we pay for that sort of engagement? And he works for a company that makes oil in cans.

I came across an organisation called WorldBlu. They help to accredit freedom based and democratic organisations and workplaces.

They have some principles I really like because they have a really good description of what a freedom and democratic-based organisation should be. There are other models. But I like this because it is straightforward.

Purpose and vision. Organisations that get this have a real purpose, they know the star they are following.

Transparency. Organisations that get this are open with their information. If we tell people what is really going on, they make really good decisions.

Dialogue and listening. Democratic organisations are all about having human-to-human conversations. And also about fairness. Treating everyone equally and everyone with dignity.

Democratic organisations also have accountability, not in a blame kind of way though. Democratic organisations are about recognising us as human beings and the collective we work for. It is about choice, about giving the people that work there choice and doing that with integrity.

Decentralisation is about recognising that it is a continual learning experience. We continue to reflect on what we do.

One of the things that I have found that virtually all of the organisations I have been inspired by have is unconditional, almost unconditional, trust in the people that work for them. So when they hire people, they trust they have hired the right people. When they ask people to do stuff, they



trust those people will do the right things. And when people are doing work they are trusting that people are making the right decisions. Trust is a very important factor in democratic organisations.

I hope that gives you an idea, through that journey, of the people that I have met, of what I think democratic organisations are. I'm going to hand back to Claire now. I think we are going to have a pause while we check the chat and Twitter and then Claire will talk about some of the social environments we work in that influence this too.

DOMINIC: Some good lessons to be learned from many organisations there. I will ask Paul and then we will hand over to Leigh to get some feedback. Paul, do you want to do a quick summary?

PAUL: People seem to be resonating a lot with the ideas you are talking about, there’s a lot of love for the ideas. You could tell by the tone of the conversation, quite a lot of banter. And we've got a couple of useful messages. Carmen has suggested we look at the Buurtzog model as well and Kate has posted the link to the Happy Manifesto you were talking about. If you scroll up the chat you will find that.

KEV WYKE:There are definitely some links I have got to the Happy Manifesto. Happy Henry has written a book with 10 principles for happy organisations, which is ace. There’s lots to find out about. He is open about the way he has worked and it is a really good read. Buurtzog, we will come to them in a minute. What I have avoided in the first section is talking about organisations that are in the area that we are working in, health and social care. We will come to those a bit later. I am just scrolling through. Lots of people have experience with these models. It will be really interesting to hear how things are going for people.

LEIGH: Morning, all. It has been great so far, thank you. People on Twitter are really enjoying hearing what you have been saying about the examples, and sharing sharing pictures and discussing the examples. People are really enjoying going through the things you talk about.

KEV WYKE: Some people posting some great pictures as well. There are plenty of links to all of the organisations I'm talking about. We should put those together so people can access them easily after the session. I'm sure you will do that anyway. That should give you a bit more detail of what these organisations are doing. They are all really interesting.

LEIGH:Yes, people have been sharing what they have heard about the organisations, so it is really resonating with people. I think people are really eager to hear more.

DOMINIC: We will add all those onto our website after this session. Claire, are you there?



CLAIRE HAIGH:Yes, can you see me? Fabulous, I am here and I am ready to get going. I’ve got a technical issue with the slides, so I'll be saying "next" to get the slides to change. I really resonate with what Kevin has said as well. This is a topic that, in the same way as for Kevin, for me, it is something I have been exploring for quite some time. The bit that I now want to focus on is actually OK, we have these great organisations and these individuals, and examples where this is happening, but there is a much bigger context and a bigger picture in which the world is changing that actually enables us and tells us how we can do this work more. I can hear some typing, I don’t know what that is. It has stopped now. It was just really offputting. Sorry.

So, social age. I’m going to talk about the social age, and what do we mean by that. I was really lucky to meet Julian (unknown term) the day after I decided to go and work for myself, and he absolutely inspired me with his passion and his energy for this work, and I think that Julian’s work is inspirational in this area. I would suggest you go and find out more. I am going to give a snapshot of the richness that Julian gives around this.

So I'll talk through what do we mean by the social age. I'm going to talk about the new and old power paradigms, which is quite important Helen Bevan talks about this a lot, but I just want to revisit that, because the hierarchy and the structures that we have are really coming into friction with a very different way of working, and what does that mean for democracy, freedom and work? Looking at the power of social platforms. How does it democratise how we work, how we do things differently, and we will look at working in a multi-generational workplace. How do that mean, how do we work with democracy and freedom. It is not about typesetting generations, that is not helpful, but it's very much about how do we embrace that. Can we just go to the next slide, Paul?

So, this is a brilliant animation by Julian. So this looks at the kind of four ages – industrial, knowledge, digital and social. What I’m going to talk about mainly is the social age, but to be able to do that it is important to understand what's come before and how this legacy has been left in how it still hanging around now in this age.

So the manufacturing age, as we've said, was about creating things, solving problems, structure. People go to work, do their shifts, come home. Things were made. It was a very process-oriented structure.

And then we get into a knowledge age, where innovation was everything that we talked about. Knowledge became a currency. It was how people got powerful. How people will share within parameters. Knowledge was controlled by the few, rather than the many.

Then we had the digital age. From the 1970s onwards. We all started to embrace technology and doing things that enable us to access and share information. The impacts of this were huge. I can remember as a child, having computers that ran on tapes. I literally remember having to put the tapes in. It made a horrendous noise, and took a massive wait for it to work. Now, I find the speed of technology fascinating.

The social age, for me, is about a time of change, time of friction, a time of challenge as well, that actually let's opportunity, and the optimist, thrive. They can take advantage of the ambiguity and work it to their advantage.



What does the social age look like? This actually being able to shift and move, be agile, unable to respond to what is happening, because things are actually changing so much, we are connected in ways that we have never been connected for. We are able to share information, we are able to engage with people all over the world if we want to. It is all about agility and engagement.

It means acquired learning is much more valuable than just information and knowledge. There is a notable shift in power in the social age. It's not about two people having a lot of power, it about a big distribution of power. How do we, may, how do we use these things, why do we really start thinking about doing things very differently?

And that's the next point, it's about community. Co-collaborating, collaboration. It's one of my favourite words. For me it's about sharing and community. We have this notion that in the good old days we had communities, and now we don't. But actually I think there are some things around - it's not about necessarily the person next door on your street, but people crave community and that sense of wanting to have things different. That is why you see some things like (unknown term), communities like mums net, which are online, but what's happened is we have clusters across the country.

I think one of the things that Julian talks about is actually changing times, and how we relate as communities and create meaning is really important. Meaning is something people are looking for. Actually, it was much more simple, previously, so you had your work, had your home life, had your family and friends. You couldn't connect to the world from your kitchen table like you can now. How does this affect everything? It's not about work and all these personal things. It's about having an opportunity, and how to connect together.

So just in terms of characteristics here around the social age, engagement is key. Kevin will talk about this more in terms of engagement, consultation, but people can engage on any topic they want, anywhere on social media, on communities online. And he pulled out actually want engagement meant, though it actually shifts and moves and help to make things better. Informal texts, really key as well.

Something about this topic is really about hierarchy, it's really interesting to me. In the industrial age we had this hierarchy, and the social age is entirely different to that. We've got more of a democratised system where people actually have a chance to share their opinions in free and open ways. The consequences are quite different. In the past, I might not have wanted to share my opinion, but now people move around in a way that they didn’t before, and they are not loyal in the way that they used to be.

I think one of the things going on here that I really like about the social age is creative and is shaped by many people. This thing about extending and expanding as well, that is important because it is brilliant but it is also quite scary. There is a massive world out there. The massive world of opportunity, of things we can do. You can spend your entire life just following a hashtag, but it's important to think about what the media can do for you.

The social age is a really exciting time, a time when we can learn, connect, collaborate, create together. It is a really powerful place. Can we go to the next slide, Paul?



So new/old power paradigms and importance of those. It won't be unfamiliar to many of you, because I know we've talked about it in the Horizons sessions. I just wanted to come to this, because this reinforces the social age thinking, this is what is going on in the social age. We can talk about management, and exclusivity and hierarchies. We talk about a few having power, we talk about authority, we talk about lots of different parts of the stem being separate, we talk about professionalism, we talk about specialisation. Actually these things are great and have served us well. We still need elements of these today, but actually, we're shifting to more and more and need to embrace this new power. How can we be much more agile in how we come together, and how we make things happen?

Crowd wisdom is another important thing. I love crowd wisdom. How powerful is that, and how much more engaging is that? And, yes, we need people who are really good at saying, “X, Y and Z,” to motivate people, but we really need the sharing.

Do we think it's really different in our workplaces? It's not. And how many people actually have access to things. We control information quite often and give them access to what we think they need to know rather than what they might need to know. Yes, there are some constraints, yes, things we can't share, but what are the things we need to keep private, and what are the things we don't?

This is around what Julian calls the dynamic tension, which talks about when two things are coming together, they're colliding, and we get this energy, this friction between them. On the one side you got this hierarchical model of power, where things have a process and a way of working and structures that have been established for years, and people have to get permission to do things, people have to talk, have to ask, have to stick within the job role, have to work a certain way and certain hours, to the structure.

Now people can access anything anywhere in the world, can do whatever they like. I think it's really important to not be naive that this is going on, and this is part of the stuff linked to the workplace and generational stuff as well. It is definitely not about one generation versus another.

We have energy where these things overlap, and what can we do to harness this? It doesn’t have to be negative friction always because there are roles for a more structured piece but there is an absolute role for this, more social, hierarchical and social network where information flows, where people are able to connect and co-create and collaborate. Can we go to the next slide, please?

OK, I want to talk for more about our links in the social age. How we are able to connect with what's going on around us really. I would like to share an experience of mine.

Social media is part of the social tools that you can use, but it's not about social media. It's about online community. Lightweight and synchronisable technology that you can take anywhere with you. That enables us as much as Twitter or Facebook.

In ten years' time, we will be wondering about how we worked before. Here are some things I wanted to talk about, I guess. I want to talk about my experiences using social media. I have



become increasingly interested about how people can network together and network within a network. How can they reach out to people. I am able to work with people all over the world.

The other day I was having a conversation with a noted futurologist. It was symptomatic of how people think and work now. You don't think "this person is a big figurehead, I can't contact them". In the old days you would go to book signings. Now you can tweet them.

There is definitely something about how this will further democratise us. I think social platforms are a great way for us to lead and connect and share create.

I wonder if it is worth doing a quick check in on social media at this point?

DOMINIC:I'm just conscious of time. Lee and Paul, can you bring some of the thoughts that have come through the chat?

LEE: Thanks for such a fascinating overview. There are lots of retweets going on. One person endorsed your love of crowd wisdom. People love the idea of democratisation of information.

CLAIRE HAIGH: Sorry, I'm getting carried away. Can we go to the next slide?

I had a bit of a think about what I wanted to say around this. And what I did not want to say is that we have millennials, Generation X, Generation Z, Baby Boomers. I don't think that is a useful way to think about this stuff. But I think we have to accept that we are living in as a society where, in a workplace, we have generations working together. Generation Z, sixteen-year-olds, have a different way of thinking. Because they have been brought up with technology. But you can get that disruptive thinking with other generations too.

KEV WYKE: Thanks, Claire. I guess the question is, does any of this apply to health care, social care and the public sector? One of the more interesting conversations in the chat is that does the politicised system we work within stop us doing some of this stuff that organisations who have already been referenced can do?

The system we have is tough to work in. It takes high levels of imagination and passion and resilience to be able to get some of the stuff done. The slide that is up there is the chief executive of a company that has been referenced in the chat a few times. They are a healthcare organisation.

It started in Holland, bringing care into people's homes. It is a very different organisation. Loads of you have heard about them already because they have been here in the United Kingdom explaining what they do. There are examples of people in the United Kingdom trying out their techniques.



The interesting thing he talks about is the personal bravery he needed to fight against the Dutch government when he was talking about things concerning how they are measured and paid. He, personally, has had a lot of battles to continue to work in the way they work.

Everyone works with no managers in teams of ten or twelve. They are really creative because of that. By most measures, they are very effective and efficient. They only have 45 back office staff. There are no managers and there are 15 coaches.

They don't think they need managers to check on people. They have trust.

They work in a politicised system too, but the leadership is important. The personal drive and obsession of their leadership has enabled them to fly. It is important to recognise the system we are in and that it is tough.

The other example I wanted to note of people who work in tough political and financial systems is the chief executive of DaVita. They have a turnover of $13 billion annually and are a Fortune 400 company. They are also an amazingly democratic organisation.

Their Chief Executive will often dress as the one of the Three Musketeers at staff parties. He is completely obsessed with delivering a purposeful life for people who work there. He has interesting ideas about how to bring people into the organisation. New employees go away for a couple of days to think about their own purpose, why the reasons they are on this world fit with the organisation's purposes.

They are a hard-nosed organisation with shareholders and financial constraints. They are financially very successful. But how they deliver is very different to how most people do it.

One of the things I really like about them is that they honour noble human behaviour. When they give their awards out, they reward and honour people who do the right thing. Well worth having more of a look about what DaVita do.

They are obsessive about their communities are doing the right thing for people.

That does get us to the point of, where do we start? This is potentially massive. It seems too big to start. It reminds me of the old story of the person throwing starfish washed up on the beach back into the sea. And someone said you will never be able to do it all. And that person saying, I have helped this starfish.

I think we have to start in little ways. We have to appreciate that power can be held by everybody. Nott by the few, but by the many. The ways that we work together when we have meetings and bring groups together, we can be more participative. We can be more democratic.

In little ways we can change the way that we interact with people around us. Because of time, I'm going to hand over to you now.

CLAIRE HAIGH:If we could just go to the Collaborating Out Loud slide.



I think it is important that both our voices are heard. This is Kevin and I undertaking an experiment to put our ideas to the test. What we wanted to do was pull people together. Kevin and I met up in September and had a coffee and we thought, “Imagine if we could come up with a statement”. We wanted to pull people together to help improve and shape public services for the future. We wanted to experiment and do things differently.

We wanted to do that in an open, democratic way. We found a lot of people in public services come together around leadership and change.

This is a bit of a mission statement of our community. We talk about being co-founders in this as an experiment.

We test what we mean by democracy and freedom. Really quickly, I will share some of our early findings and then we'll have a quick opportunity for others to jump in. If we can just go to the next slide.

For me, it is really hard work to do this stuff. You have to put the effort in and I think the last point about just saying it's a democratic community doesn't make it so. You have to pay attention to how you want to do that. There is an opportunity here to shape it together. That middle point about slowing down to speeding up. Kevin is really good at that.

It will help us shift forward and start work with some challenges. Next slide.

This is something I've been thinking about a lot since our conversation the other day. For me collaboration is personal and emotional. We have to be able to say that we know what it's about. And that goes against what many people have been taught, or they find it scary. But collaboration is emotional and human. Next slide.

This, for me is quite interesting. This came out of a conversation I had with Kevin the other day. We are talking about collaboration here, but democracy and freedom mean collaboration, and for me collaboration is emotional and personal, and we have to really embrace that because we have to be able to say, “This is bringing something up in me that I’m not sure what it is about.” We have to adjust that if we are going to work in a democratic way. We need people to talk about their vulnerabilities, not is really hard, and that goes against a lot of how people have been taught to work. Next slide.

I think there's something about working hard, not forgetting the way. What we need is to facilitate with networks and collaborating out loud. This is the same in all organisations. It's about working hard not to get in the way.

This slide tells you how you can get involved. We want today to be the start of the conversation. There are local politicians and national politicians, all these drivers taking place. How does all that play into this? For me it goes back to collaboration, engagement, democracy and freedom.

KEV WYKE: Dominic is very keen that our time is up. It's quite experimental, Collaborating Out Loud. What Claire and I have learnt is that this democratic approach to working together are things that we need to explore. We need high levels of obsession and imagination and high levels of bravery.



I don't want to say more about Collaborating Out Loud, Claire has done that. There is a quote from the CEO of DaVita.

"If this is the world that we want tomorrow, what do we need to change today?"

It actually says we need to do something about it now, regardless of how tough it might be. We have to crack on and do something ourselves. So Claire and I are hopefully doing a little bit of that.

CLAIRE HAIGH: Yes, with your help.

DOMINIC: Thank you for sharing your stories. There has been a lot of conversation on Twitter and on the chat room. If we can follow up with the people who have connected here, that would be brilliant. I would like to thank everyone for their time. We will be sharing the notes from today's chat and also some Twitter activity on the Edge platform.


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edgetalks transcript 3 february 2017, democracy, freedom and work – enabling better

Healthcare