emotional labor - the metafilter thread condensed

7/24/2019 Emotional Labor - The MetaFilter Thread Condensed

1/71

Emotional Labor:

The MetaFilter Thread Condensed

TABLEO F CONTENTS

I. DEFINING EL.................................................................................................................................... 2

A. The oerhead o! "arin#............................................................................................................................... 2

B. The !$ll %ei#ht o! a do$ble&standard.......................................................................................................... 2C. There are no #nomes'................................................................................................................................. 2

D. Gettin# the meal and the "alm is male (riile#e........................................................................................ )

E. *ohn Gottman on a""e(tin# in+$en"e......................................................................................................... )

F. Een man, #ood men don-t $nderstand: the, don-t hae to........................................................................

G. /hen %ill %e hae earned a t$rn0.............................................................................................................

1. A bonsai h$man..........................................................................................................................................

I. M, heart $st !alls........................................................................................................................................

II. ANS/E3INGT1ET45ICALOB*ECTIONS.............................................................................................. 6

A. /h, 7*$st sa, no- a"t$all, doesn-t s(are $s an, #rie!................................................................................. 6

B. /h, it-s not a !eminine !riolit, %e sho$ld $st set aside........................................................................... 8

C. /h, %e don9t 9$st need to "omm$ni"ate better abo$t o$r needs9 God; %e hae triedill.................................................)8

C. The one time men %illin#l, do EL............................................................................................................

. 3Ein# it %or>......................................................................................................................................... 6=

E. As>in# ,o$r beloed to read the thread.................................................................................................... 6

I. OT1E3.........................................................................................................................................

II. C3EDITS......................................................................................................................................

A. J/here9s M, C$tK: On Unpaid Emotional Labor; =)2=6; b, *ess immerman....................................

B. MetaFilter Thread; =62=6 to =62=6.............................................................................................

C. Condensed ersion =; 282=6; (re(ared b, Oliia . Lima..................................................................

D. Condensed ersion 2; =22=6; (re(ared b, Timid 3obot ehta........................................................... =


2/71

I. DE F I N I N G EL

I . DEFINING EL

A. The overhead of caring

I o!ten tal> abo$t emotional labor as bein# the %or> o! "arin#. And it-s not $st bein# "arin#; it-s that thin#

%here someone sa,s JI-ll "lean i! ,o$ $st tell me %hat to "lean'K be"a$se the, don-t %ant to do the mental

%or> o! #$rin# it o$t. Carin# abo$t all the moin# (arts re?$ired to !eed the o""$(ants at dinnertime;

"arin# abo$t so"ial mana#ement. Carin# abo$t noti"in# that somethin# has "han#ed & li>e; it-s not there

an,more; or it-s on re; or it-s bro>en.

It-s a s$bstantial amo$nt o! oerhead; hain# to "are abo$t eer,thin#. It o$#ht to be a shared b$rden; b$t

hal! the (lanet is so"ialied to tri"> other (eo(le into doin# more o! the %or>.

posted by Lyn Neverat 4:33 PMon July 15 [214 favorites]

B. The full weight of a double-standard

a. My brother once said, proudly, that he doesnt take any notice of anything unless it splats in his face,

because that way he knows he is only dealing with the important stu.

s.

The e(e"tation that %omen %ill be nat$rall,; ePortlessl, s>illed at =< >ee(in# tra"> o! %hat-s im(ortant

to !amil, members; !riends o! the !amil,; %or> "ollea#$es 2< hain# antennae o$t !or others- inisible and

s$btle e(e"tationsmissiestone!re?$en", o! "onta"tmoodneeds )< noti"in# entro(, and ta>in# note

o! (otential (roblems < a"tin# as a er&!a"ilitator&lo#isti"s "oordinator 6< ma>in# thin#s

"om!ortableeas,non&threatenin# !or others %hile < doin# this on an $n(aid basis < doin# this on an

$nnoti"ed basis < bein# mo">ed andor #asli#hted !or mentionin# the eisten"e o! all o! this as %or>;

and as eha$stin# 8< bein# "alled na#s and told to lo%er o$r standards; be"a$se %e noti"e so m$"h and

=< !eelin# li>e %e are !ailin# at Jbein# in "har#e o! eer,one-s ha((iness.K

posted by Monkeyoesat !:"" #Mon July 1$ [%& favorites]

b. ...QThis threadR also made me thin> abo$t m, Dad; and ho% he is #ood at emotional labo$r; and %hen he

and m, M$m s(lit $( %hen %e %ere small he isited $s eer, %ee> and too> $s all %ee>end eer,

%ee>end %itho$t !ail and too> $s on holida,s eer, ,ear %ith no other ad$lts. I-e al%a,s been reall,(ro$d o! him !or that; es(e"iall, as he is !rom an older #eneration and %o$ld hae been bro$#ht $( in a

er, traditional role. B$t I remember ho% (eo(le %o$ld sa, ho% #ood he %as & and he %as; he learned to

"oo> !or $s !or eam(le & b$t I don-t remember an,one sa,in# that abo$t m, M$m; %ho had $s the rest o!

the time. Be"a$se; he,; that %as her ob. I-m still #rate!$l to m, Dad be"a$se he-s (robabl, %h, I-e onl,

eer been in relationshi(s %ith #ood #$,s %ho "an reall, listen he-s a #reat listener< and don-t hae

some idea abo$t %hat "onstit$tes J%omen-s %or>K; b$t a#ain it brin#s into relie! the diPeren"e bet%een

%hat is e(e"ted o! %omen and %h, men #et "oo>ies !or doin# the same thin#.

posted by billiebeeat $:1& #Mon July 22 [!% favorites]

C. There are no gnomes!

To ?$ote the late #reat Do$#las Adams: !n "E# $"omebody Elses #roblem %eld& is something we cant see,or dont see, or our brain doesnt let us see, because we think that its somebody elses problem.... 'he brain

(ust edits it out, its like a blind spot. )f you look at it directly you wont see it unless you know precisely what

it is. *our only hope is to catch it by surprise out of the corner of your eye... it relies on peoples natural

disposition not to see anything they dont want to, werent e+pecting, or cant e+plain.4o$ see that ,o$ $st

$sed the last o! the toilet (a(er ,o$-re not d$mb


3/71


$se the sin> and %asn-t the one %ho $sed the last o! the (a(er & be"a$se the net (erson in m, ho$se on that

toilet %ill not be a h,(otheti"al (erson; it %ill be a real (erson and most li>el, a (erson I loe. And I do it at

%or> be"a$se I d$nno; ant-s Cate#ori"al Im(eratie (l$s it-s the ri#ht thin# to do && een tho$#h some

%ee>s it seems I am the onl, %oman at m, %or>(la"e %ho eer does so /TF & b$t it-s more (roo!; I thin>;

that this reall, isn-t a "$t&and&dried men s. %omen thin# the thin>in# reall, is as sim(le as JI am bad at @; other (eo(le are #ood at @; there!ore I %ill leae @

to them.K /hi"h o!ten is a""om(anied b, the ass$m(tion that (eo(le %ho are #ood at @ a"t$all, eno, it./hi"h is (ossibl, tr$e !or some (eo(le; and some ariations o! @. B$t %hen I as> m, son to hel( em(t, the

dish%asher or some other "hore and he res(onds JI don-t %ant to;K or JI don-t !eel li>e it;K m, res(onse is

al%a,s; AL/A4S; JNobod, li>es it. B$t it has to #et done.K To me that is the insidio$s thin>in# that has to be

oer"ome && that some%here o$t there is the 1el(in# Fair, %ho eno,s %ashin# dishes and "leanin# $( (ee

and ma>in# s$re there-s al%a,s mil> in the !rid#e; and %ho r$shes in to do so be"a$se it-s !$n !or her.

As Mon>e,Toes ($t it and diinedb,radio "alled o$t alread, $(threads; there are no mother!$">in#

#nomes. Sorr, to re(eat it & b$t I s$s(e"t it bears a lot o! re(eatin#.

posted by M'(ellyat 3:23 PMon July 21 [3! favorites]

D. Getting the meal and the calm is male privilege

At some (oint I realied I %as bein# a h$#e na# abo$t dinner; be"a$se I "oo>ed dinner eer, ni#ht; be"a$se%hen m, bo,!riend "oo>ed dinner it too> !oreer see: not "oo>in# !or himsel! his %hole li!e< and %e %ere

dietin# and I didn-t %ant to eat sna">s all eenin# %aitin# !or dinner to be done at 8: o-"lo">. Then I

realied he,&& I "an $st let #o. I "an as> him to ma>e dinner; and I "an eat a (ean$t b$tter sand%i"h or

somethin#; and sae m, le!toers !or l$n"h the net da,. It %as a #reat reelation in terms o! m, (ersonal

mental health&& I #ot !ed; I didn-t hae to al%a,s be the "oo>; and I didn-t hae to be mad at m, bo,!riend. B$t

een in that sit$ation I %as $st sa,in#; Jhe,; i! I "om(letel, let #o and eat li>e a >inder#artener; I don-t hae

to be mad at m, bo,!riend'K It-s $st so sad that that-s the sol$tion. I don-t #et a %arm; home"oo>ed meal at a

re#$lar dinner time. That-s not ho% heterose$al re"i(ro"it, %or>s. I #et a (ean$t b$tter sand%i"h and

J(ea"e o! mindK i.e.; !reedom !rom domesti"emotional labor he bo$#ht Christmas or birthda, (resents !or his !amil, $ntil he met

me and realied that I and all m, sisters< did that. So he-s a"t$all, a reall, #ood #$, in the sense that he%ants to do that labor and be hel(!$l and >ind. B$t een the best >ind o! #$, didn-t hae it beaten into him

sin"e he %as a >id and I !eel li>e %e-re li#ht,ears a(art in that sense.

An,%a,; this thread is sooooo e"ellent.

posted by easter )ueenat 1":"% #Mon July 1! [$1 favorites]

E. ohn Gottman on accepting inuence

/hi"h reminds me o! the *ohn Gottman obseration that health, mied&se relationshi(s are those in %hi"h

the male (artner Ja""e(ts in+$en"eK !rom the !emale (artner; sin"e the reerse is almost $niersall, alread,

ha((enin#:

-. !ccept inuence from your partner.

)n studying heterose+ual marriages, we found that a relationship succeeds to the e+tent that the husband

can accept inuence from his wife. /or instance, a woman says, 0o you ha1e to work 'hursday night2

My mother is coming that weekend, and ) need your help getting ready. 3er husband then replies, My

plans are set, and )m not changing them. !s you might guess, this guy is in a shaky marriage. !

husbands ability to be inuenced by his wife 4rather than 1ice51ersa6 is crucial 7 because research shows

that women are already well practiced at accepting inuence from men. ! true partnership only occurs

when a husband can do the same thing.

posted by *a+uarat $:1$ #Mon July 1$ [$! favorites]

5AGE)
http://www.metafilter.com/140480/men-as-feminist-allies#5618445http://www.metafilter.com/140480/men-as-feminist-allies#5618445http://www.metafilter.com/140480/men-as-feminist-allies#5618445http://www.metafilter.com/user/98572http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135435http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6135435http://www.metafilter.com/user/221666http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6129379http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6129379http://www.gottman.com/top-7-ways-to-improve-your-marriage/http://www.metafilter.com/user/162801http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6130657http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6130657http://www.metafilter.com/140480/men-as-feminist-allies#5618445http://www.metafilter.com/140480/men-as-feminist-allies#5618445http://www.metafilter.com/user/98572http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135435http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6135435http://www.metafilter.com/user/221666http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6129379http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6129379http://www.gottman.com/top-7-ways-to-improve-your-marriage/http://www.metafilter.com/user/162801http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6130657http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6130657


4/71


". Even man# good men don$t understand% the# don$t have to

...B$t I thin> the (oint I %anted to ma>e and %hi"h other %omen in this thread hae made m$"h more

elo?$entl, and less rantil, than me< is that m, (artner is in almost eer, other area a le#itimatel, !antasti"

!eminist all,. 1e #ets it. 1e ta>es a"tion in man, %a,s; lar#e and small; to ma>e the %orld a more h$mane

and e?$itable (la"e !or %omen. 1e is %onder!$l; and I loe him. B$t he does not $nderstand the al$e o!

emotional labo$r; be"a$se he has neer had to do it e"e(t %hen b, "hoi"e; and he does not $nderstand the

"onse?$en"es o! ne#le"tin# that labo$r; be"a$se he is not the one %ho s$Pers them. 1e is not a monster. 1eis not a boor. 1e is insi#ht!$l and (roa"tie abo$t man, !eminist iss$es.

B$t he is dee(l, and %ill!$ll, blind in this area. 1e li>e man, men< is "onin"ed that en#a#in# in an

emotional e"onom, is ol$ntar,; be"a$se !or him it al%a,s has been.

posted by ,orindaat &:1! #Mon July 1! [2"% favorites]

G. &hen will we have earned a turn'

1o% m$"h o! this labor has a %oman #ot to (a, o$t be!ore d$des %ill do an,thin# in ret$rn0 Serio$sl,; %hat-s

the (ri"e0 Be"a$se %e-e been doin# this shit all o$r lies; ,et %e-e neer saed $( eno$#h #ood%ill to hae

o$r needs a">no%led#ed. /e-e as>ed (olitel, and %aited (atientl,; b$t %e-re made o$t to be the bad #$,s

!or een brin#in# it $(.

posted by +uenevereyat 1":2% #Mon July 2" [4 favorites]

(. A bonsai human

I-ll neer !or#et the moment %hen I rst "ons"io$sl, >ne% I had to leae Qm, e&h$sband be"a$se it %as an

in"ident so triial b$t so (ro!o$nd. /e %ere in a boo>store and I %as readin# a (oem b, /isa%a

S,mbors>a. It %as so bea$ti!$l and eo"atie that I started to "r,. I %ent to m, h$sband o! seen ,ears;

tears r$nnin# do%n m, !a"e; and as>ed him (lease to read the (oem be"a$se it %as so %onder!$l. 1e loo>ed

at me %ith a#$e distaste and im(atien"e in his !a"e and sna((ed 7%inna; I hate (oetr,.-

I stared at him and I remember thin>in# oh #od %hat hae I done to marr, a man %ho hates one o! the most

im(ortant thin#s in m, li!e. I realied that I had s(ent ,ears "arin# and sni((in# oP bits o! m,sel! to "on!orm

to his e(e"tations $ntil I didn-t een >no% %ho I %as. And I said !$"> this shit I onl, hae one li!e and I am

#oin# to s(end it bein# me; %hi"h means re&ndin# o$t %ho me is. I told him that %hen I le!t him and I >no%he didn-t beliee it; b$t that is his (roblem.

There are a lot o! ?$estions on as>me that h$rt m, heart be"a$se the, are ?$estions !rom %omen %ho %ant

to >no% ho% to "are themseles into an a""e(table sha(e !or a man and I al%a,s %ant to tell them that the,

sho$ld neer de!orm the (erson the, %ere meant to be $st so the, "an hae some male&identied (erson

%ith %hom to asso"iate. Li!e is too short to be a bonsai h$man !or someone else-s toleration and "onenien"e.

posted by -innaat 1:2$ PMon July 1& [34% favorites]

). *# heart +ust falls

Co$nt me in as someone %ho loes doin# emotional labor i! it-s a">no%led#ed. B$t om#; ma,be one o! the

saddest thin#s eer !or me in relationshi(s is %hen I do somethin# and ($t a lot o! ePort into it and am so

e"ited to do so be"a$se I $st >no% it %ill ma>e m, (artner !eel so ha((, and loed & to do all that and thenhae the re"i(ient literall, not een noti"e or not sa, one %ord abo$t it & om#. M, heart $st !alls. I mean; it-s

li>e I "an almost !eel it !allin#. It ma>es me SO sad. This is also a bi# tro(e in moies. The %i!e %ho #oes o$t

o! her %a, to ma>e hersel! loo> ni"e or ma>e a ni"e dinner and set the table or %hateer; and she-s so e"ited

at the e(e"tation o! his rea"tion; and the h$sband $st s%ee(s in and doesn-t een see it and ,o$ see the

%i!e-s !a"e !all. That neer; eer !ails to ma>e me tear $(. I-m tearin# $( $st thin>in# abo$t it. I don-t >no%

%h, this thin# in (arti"$lar ma>es me so sad; b$t it reall,; reall, does. It-s $st so h$rt!$l.

posted by tri++erfin+erat 1:51 PMon July 21 [5! favorites]

5AGE
http://www.metafilter.com/user/148198http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6129216http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6129216http://www.metafilter.com/user/53771http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6133267http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6133267http://www.metafilter.com/user/46466http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6131999http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6131999http://www.metafilter.com/user/14734http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135286http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6135286http://www.metafilter.com/user/148198http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6129216http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6129216http://www.metafilter.com/user/53771http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6133267http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6133267http://www.metafilter.com/user/46466http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6131999http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6131999http://www.metafilter.com/user/14734http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135286http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6135286


5/71

II. ANS/E3ING T1 E T4 5 ICA L OB*ECTIO NS

II. A NS/E3INGT1 ET45ICALOB*ECTIONS

A. &h# ,ust sa# no$ actuall# doesn$t spare us an# grief

. Bac to school

a. 4eah; ,o$ #$,s a"t li>e %omen "an $st o(t o$t o! emotional labor "onse?$en"e !ree. I! %e o(t o$t o!

doin# the e(e"ted emotional labor; then %e #et to deal %ith the #eneralied o((robri$m !or o(tin#o$t' M, h$sband and I hae been to#ether !or 2 ,ears and %hen I nall, as>ed him J/h, is ,o$r

!ather-s %i!e "allin# me to arran#e !or the t%o o! ,o$ to #o hi>in# to#ether0K he said J. . . be"a$se the

(atriar"h,. *$st tell her I-ll "all m, dad dire"tl,.K So no% I hae to deal %ith her "allin# me = times a

da, and tetin# me JCALL ME ASA5K $ntil m, h$sband nall, remembers to "all his !ather = da,s

a!ter the barra#e and onsla$#ht starts. I "o$ld blo"> her n$mber; b$t that %o$ld (robabl, hae een

#reater "onse?$en"es ; not $st !or m,sel! b$t !or m, h$sband and "hildren.

I-e told this stor, here be!ore; b$t the ,ear o$r older "hild %as enterin# rst #rade; I had a #i# the

ni#ht o! the 5arent C$rri"$l$m Ni#ht at the s"hool; so m, h$sband %ent instead. /hen it as>ed !or

"onta"t in!ormation; he #ae onl, his email address and (hone n$mber; be"a$se he is $sed to

thin>in# o! himsel! as one (erson; not as a re(resentatie o! the !amil,. So it %as his email address

and his (hone n$mber that %ent o$t in the J#et to >no% ,o$r "lassmates- (arentsK email; and he #ot

eer, birthda, initation; eer, tea"her email; eer, (la,date inite; eer, /a">, 1air Da, or /earthe 3e#alia o! 4o$r Faorite S(orts Team Da, email. And not me' S$ddenl,; he %as in "har#e o!

mana#in# o$r da$#hter-s so"ial li!e and s"hool intera"tions. And een tho$#h %hat he did most o! the

time %as $st thro% it oer to me; he !o$nd it absol$tel, eha$stin#.

JNO/ 4OH HNDE3STAND;K I told him. JE"e(t that !or me; it-s not $st li>e this !or the s"hool; it-s

li>e this !or EE34T1ING.K

posted by .at(rynat 5:4" PMon July 15 [31! favorites]

b. For a b$n"h o! (ra"ti"al reasons; Atro(os *r-s dad ended $( bein# the one %ho too> her to ballet

"lass; did her hair in a b$n; made s$re she had her ballet sli((ers et". Fast&!or%ard to her re"ital one

,ear and I introd$"e m,sel! to one o! the other mothers as I-m dro((in# oP some "ost$me (ie"e. She

stares at me !or a se"ond and sa,s; J%e all ass$med Atro(os *r didnt ha1e a mother.K At rst I

tho$#ht she %as $st bein# snott,; and there %as denite disa((roal there; b$t she %as also

"om(letel, sin"ere. For this %oman; the onl, (ossible s"enario in %hi"h a >id-s dad did that ob %as

one in %hi"h the mother %as dead or other%ise absent. M, h$sband #ot either (it, or ad$lation !rom

%omen !or doin# this st$P on"e it t$rned o$t I %as alie and $st not doin# Jm,K ob; I %as treated

%ith a lot o! hostilit,. 4eah; dan"e tends to be #endered b$t this >ind o! thin# ha((ens all oer.

posted by atroposat !:5" PMon July 15 [15$ favorites]

/. 0thers$ e1pectations 2 shaming

a. /h, is it M4 ob to >ee( tra"> o! m, h$sband-s mother-s birthda,; %hen that I the sort o! thin# I am

terrible at and he is reasonabl, #ood at0 Be"a$se een m, loel, h$sband $n"ons"io$sl, oUoaded a

b$n"h o! !amilial emotional labor on me %hen %e #ot married. /orse; %h, does m, MIL #et mad at

ME %hen he !or#ets her birthda,0 Be"a$se the %hole /O3LD e(e"ts me to be the birthda,rememberer'

A"t$all,; the one that anno,s me is Christmas (resents; be"a$se it-s !$">in# eha$stin# to thin> o!

(resents !or him; o$r >ids; and all the members o! m, lar#e etended !amil,. Then I remind him %e

hae to #et somethin# !or his (arents and he loo>s at me hel(lessl, and sa,s; JI don-t hae an, ideas;

"an ,o$ thin> o! an,thin#0K NO. I 1AE HSED H5 ALL M4 IDEAS AND T1EN SOME AND M4 B3AIN

IS TI3ED OF T1INING OF GIFTS.

posted by /yebro-s M'0eeat 4:3" PMon July 15 [1%5 favorites]

5AGE6
http://www.metafilter.com/user/96867http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128430http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128430http://www.metafilter.com/user/14917http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128533http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128533http://www.metafilter.com/user/102200http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128288http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128288http://www.metafilter.com/user/96867http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128430http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128430http://www.metafilter.com/user/14917http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128533http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128533http://www.metafilter.com/user/102200http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128288http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128288


6/71

II. ANS/E3ING T1 E T4 5 IC A L OB*ECTIO NS

b. M, a((li"ation essa, !or Crone Island: I lie on a small !arm; and m, h$sband %or>s oP&!arm.

Conse?$entl,; I handle (robabl, 8 (er"ent the %or> o! "leanin# the ho$se; and %hateer needs

attention o$tside be"a$se I-m the Ad$lt on D$t,. That-s eer,thin# !rom mo%in# to %eedin# to

inasion o! the sna((in# t$rtles to somethin# is bein# bornsomethin# $st died. The >ids are #ood

%ith J($t that sna>e ba"> in the s%am(K b$t there is a limit to their hel(!$lness.< I >ee( the #ardens

I droe 6 T&(osts !or m, tomatoes; and %hen I %as done; ret$rned the (ost (o$nder to its home b,

the tool "add,.

A !e% %ee>s a#o; I "leaned the to( o! the barn; and sho%ed m, nei#hbor; S#t. Shi(sha(e; the ne%

home !or trailer hit"hes he had not been able to nd them do%nstairsed me.

JIt-s b, the tool "add,.K

JI loo>ed there; it isn-t.K

So I #o loo>. And there it is; leanin# a#ainst the tool "add,. And S#t. Shi(sha(e; b$rnin# both o! $s in

one #o; sa,s to m, h$sband; JDamn; son; ,o$ #otta hae her "lean the BOTTOM o! the barn.K

posted by Monkeyoesat 5:22 #Mon July 23 [3% favorites]

3. 4artners$ e1pectations

) think theres a 3U8E dierence between not doing the things, and not doing the things but e+pecting

all the bene%ts of the things to accrue to you, personally, because thats (ust the way things work, and

honey, why arent you doing the things, my mom always did the things.

4es ,es ,es ,es ,es. 4es. I-e o(ted o$t o! a ton o! emotional %or> in m, (ersonal li!e; and I tr, to hae

!riendshi(s %here; as others hae said; not bein# in to$"h !or lon# stret"hes o! time is ne; be"a$se I-m a

maor introert and #et %eirded o$t b, too m$"h "onta"t; and I-m horrible at initiatin# (lans be"a$se o!

ario$s so"ial&aniet,&ish st$P; and I hae (lent, o! !riendshi(s that I thin> are (rett, "lose that don-t

inole a lot o! #i!ts or !re?$ent (hone "alls or "ards or %hateer; be"a$se that-s ne %ith eer,one

inoled.

B$t: I >no% that abo$t m,sel! and I don-t e(e"t that someone else sho$ld be doin# that %or> !or me. I

don-t thin> (lans sho$ld $st ma#i"all, materialie in !ront o! me %hen I-m !eelin# li>e #oin# o$t b$t not

!eelin# li>e I %ant to bother %ith "onta"tin# other (eo(le m,sel!. I don-t thin> !riends sho$ld ma#i"all,

>no% %hen I need etra s$((ort %itho$t m, hain# to be in "onta"t %ith them m,sel!. I don-t thin> m,

ho$sehold sho$ld ma#i"all, al%a,s hae a((ro(riate !ood; toiletries; and "leanliness&leels %itho$t m,

hain# to thin> abo$t and ee"$te the %or> !or that to ha((en. 4et someho%; the romanti" (artners %ith

%hom I hae lied hae e(e"ted those thin#s to ha((en !or them; %itho$t their hain# to do an,thin# to

ma>e those thin#s ha((en. It-s li>e the, ass$med that on"e a romanti" (artner lied %ith them; she

bro$#ht alon# a "adre o! so"ial&li!e and "leanin# and "oo>in# eles %ho $st too> "are o! all o! that so that

the, %o$ld neer hae to thin> abo$t it eer a#ain.

And the, had lied on their o%n be!ore %e moed in to#ether; so it-s not li>e the, didn-t >no% those

thin#s didn-t need to be done. The, %anted those thin#s to be done; and the, e(e"ted those thin#s to be

done; and one o! them rea"ted iolentl, i! those thin#s %eren-t done. B$t the, tho$#ht that the, %ere

entitled to hae me do them !or them. To me; that #a(in#l, h$#e imbalan"e "ombined %ith maore(e"tations !rom the one not doin# the %or> is the most "r$shin# as(e"t o! the iss$e.

posted by *a+uarat 2:42 PMon July 23 [35 favorites]

5AGE
http://www.metafilter.com/user/18811http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6137822http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6137822http://www.metafilter.com/user/162801http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6138824http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6138824http://www.metafilter.com/user/18811http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6137822http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6137822http://www.metafilter.com/user/162801http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6138824http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6138824


7/71


5. Daughters e1pected to drop all

a. More si#ni"antl,; I %as s$be"ted to the absol$tel, ridi"$lo$s dail, do$ble o! emotional labor as

$n one time %hen Mom had an a""ident and needed assistan"e. I lied

); miles a%a, at the time; b$t as NONE OF T1E MENFOL IN T1E FAMIL4 h$sband; son %ho

lied in the same "it,V; and son %ho %as at most t%o ho$rs a%a,< "o$ld be bothered to ada(t their

s"hed$les to hel( o$t; I %as s$mmoned home to hel( !or a month be"a$se a


8/71


And o! "o$rse; I had to "onsider m, (hrasin# to as> ni"el, and ma>e it seem li>e /O/ ,o$-re doin# me

the bi##est !aor in the %orld i! ,o$ "an #et the oil "han#ed %hile ,o$-re o$t (la,in# tennis.

It ended $( %ith m, !eelin# so m$"h an#er and resentment be"a$se Christ; isn-t it eno$#h that I-m

alread, doin# eer,thin#; and here I am hain# to tal> to this #$, li>e he-s an oerl,&sensitie )&,ear old

JGreat ob'K 1i#h 6'J< b$t all I-m reall, thin>in# is; KAre ,o$ so !$">in# st$(id and sel!&"entered that ,o$

don-t see the "at bo is lth,; the dish%asher needs to be em(tied; ,o$r dirt, so">s are all oer the +oor;

,o$ hae = beer bottles sittin# net to the sin>; ,o$ dran> all the mil> 2 da,s a#o and neer bo$#htmore; there-s been a load o! ,o$r la$ndr, in the %ashin# ma"hine !or ) da,s no% #ettin# mold,; the oil

STILL needs to be "han#ed; the la%n needs to be mo%ed; and ,o$-re tellin# me that ,o$-re #oin# to #o

o$t no% and smash some #ol! balls0J

posted by kineti'at 1":52 #Mon July 24 [4! favorites]

9. (olding the line is e1hausting: and results in loss

I started a relationshi( 2 ,ears a#o %here I o%ed not to do it o$t o! ste( or (ro(ortion %ith m, (artner.

I erbalied this notion at the rst missed birthda,: 7Jit-s on ,o$ d$de; to remember ,o$r !amil, members-

birthda,s and also; %hile %e are at it: ,o$ "an also: ma>e a((ointments to see a do"torla%,erdentist

"hoose ,o$r o%n shoesshirts(antssham(oo %rite ob a((li"ations >no% %hen ,o$r bills are d$e(a,

them "lean ,o$r o%n shit oP the toilet bo%l b$, $s all loo (a(er et"K Doin# all this st$P !or a blo>e is

eha$stin# and inisible in its e(e"tation & !rom the #$, himsel! and the !amil, and "omm$nit, heinhabits. 4et; !teen ,ears on; the It-s 5robabl, *$st Easier To Do It An,%a, as(e"t o! holdin# this line; or

brea>in# m, line; >illed the relationshi(.

As %as so ?$i">l, and earnestl, "ontested earl, in this thread to abdi"atin# blo>es J/ell; d$h Ladee;

sto( doin# it i! ,o$ hate it so m$"hK< there are "onse?$en"es o! losin# this "ore in ee(in# %or>. I! ,o$

sti"> to this line o! behaio$r ,o$ hae to do %itho$t all those thin#s ,o$-d loe !or ,o$rsel!. 4o$ "lose oP

that labo$r s$((l, and ho(e!$l e(e"tation o! re"i(ro"it, and ma,be; li>e me; ,o$ realie ,o$-re better oP

alone.

posted by (oneybarbaraat &:"% #Mon July 2" [2& favorites]

;. The ones who sa# ,+ust stop$ won$t have to tae responsibilit# for the

conse $( the sla"> and whyK.

Tellin# (eo(le to sto( doin# necessaryemotional labo$r 7i! the, are so tired o! it- is a shallo% a((roa"h to

a dee( (roblem that ,et a#ain sho%s that the labo$r isn-t al$ed. Emotional labo$r is a ital in#redient in

the #l$e that holds relationshi(s o! all >inds to#ether. And here-s the r$b: i! %e all sto((ed doin# it; the

J%ell; sto( doin# it'K "ro%d %o$ld not ta>e res(onsibilit, !or the res$lt.

posted by (ellaat 1:5& #Mon July 1$ [$3 favorites]

=. The conseshame for the woman who sa#s no% the#

land on vulnerable people

The #rand(arent&birthda, eam(le "ited aboe %as %hat ha((ens %hen a (erson almost al%a,s a

%oman< sto(s doin# the $na">no%led#ed and Hnre%arded emotional labor: someone $lnerable and

%itho$t alternaties #ets h$rt; in this "ase a "hild. I re!$sed to do the %or> !or that #rand(arent

5AGE


9/71


relationshi( so it doesn-t eist. 3e"entl, (ost&se(aration I said I %o$ld no lon#er be the (oint (erson !or

the >ids and the in&la%s "o$sin; that the e %o$ld hae to handle those (la, dates; (art, inites; (hone

"alls et". 3es$lt0 No relationshi(s an, more. The >ids miss o$t on relationshi(s be"a$se ad$lts "an-t be

arsed to do emotional %or> and then %onder %h, their >ids are lonel, and $(set.

posted by dorot(yisunder-oodat 2:3! #Mon July 1$ [5% favorites]

?. "alling on #our sword... and the cost of being last in line

a. M, !ao$rite line this %ee> !rom m, e has been him m$sin# on ho% he (lans to #o to thera(,

be"a$se he-s "ome to see that a!ter a de"ade o! m, as>in# him to #o to thera(, that he needs hel(

be,ond his ori#inal (lan< m, readin# the sel!&hel( boo>s and (re(arin# an ee"$tie s$mmar, %ith

instr$"tions !or him.

The reason; a!ter tellin# me that I-m selsh !or thro%in# a%a, o$r lon# and ha((, marria#e; %h, oh

%h, %on-t I #o to marria#e "o$nselin# I hae a#reed to; I-e $st re!$sed to be the (erson %ho

s"hed$les the a((ointments as I hae !or the last de"ade; and re!er to them as dior"e "o$nselin#< is

so that JI-ll %ant to #et married a#ain o! "o$rse and not hae these (roblems %ith m, net %i!e.K

I don-t thin> he-ll a"t$all, #o to thera(, & I mean; I "an ho(e; b$t I-d be dee(l, s$r(rised. B$t #et

remarried0 Denitel,. 1e-s barel, !$n"tionin# as a h$man bein# a!ter a de"ade o! tellin# me I %as the

in"om(etent one in o$r marria#e. I ho(e she-ll be o>a,; b$t I e(e"t to %ind $( bein# the (erson %holoo>s a!ter him in his old a#e be"a$se he-s mana#ed to isolate eer,one else and it-ll be me or o$r

>ids; and I don-t %ant m, >ids to bear that b$rden.

posted by dorot(yisunder-oodat %:42 PMon July 21 [25 favorites]

b. ) e+pect to wind up being the person who looks after him in his old age because hes managed to

isolate e1eryone else and itll be me or our kids, and ) dont want my kids to bear that burden.

ers. Eer,one else has been

able to sa, no; b$t the %oman %ho is the "are#ier; her No is treated as the %orst o! all the no-s

(ossible; isible in a %a, that the rest o! the no-s !rom the (eo(le and so"iet, aro$nd her %ho !ailed

to hel( so she nall, had to sa, no; is held as a $d#ement on her. A $d#ement %ith ($nishment &

so"ial isolation; the %ithdra%al o! (ra"ti"al s$((ort; do%n to o$tri#ht miso#,nisti" atta">s be"a$se

she-s Js$"h a "old bit"hK.

posted by dorothyisunderwoodat 10:54 PMon July 21 [30 favorites]

B. &h# it$s not a feminine frivolit# we should +ust set aside

. These tass are actuall# necessar#

>ut e1en better would be if there wasnt the e+pectation that anyone did any of it, because these tasks55

absolutely not necessary for a ci1ili?ed society55 didnt e+ist.

The, are ne"essar,; tho$#h. All o! these thin#s; (erha(s small in isolation; are basi"all, so"ial #l$e. At its

most basi" leel; all o! this emotional labo$r is sa,in# to another h$man bein# J,o$ matter. I %ill ta>e m,

time to sho% ,o$ that ,o$ matter.K And maintainin# that #l$e is somethin# that deoles mainl, onto

%omen; 2 ho$rs a da,.

5AGE8
http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6130474http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6130474http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135803http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6135803http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135840http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135840http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6135840http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6130474http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6130474http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135803http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6135803http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6135840http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6135840


10/71


It !eels li>e most men are ta$#ht e& or im(li"itl,< to do emotional %or> onl, %hen it #ets them

somethin# the, %ant no%; %hereas most %omen are ta$#ht to do emotional %or> as (art o! an on#oin#

e"han#e that benets eer,one.

posted by fe'kless fe'al fear on+erin+at 11:3" #Mon July 1! [&4 favorites]

/. )t$s not the cards

a. ) actually dont understand why women care either $about sending cards&

/e DON-T. /e don-t !$">in# "are abo$t ,o$r mom-s birthda, or little sall, the =th "o$sin ) times

remoed-s !$">in# (iano re"ital. B$t %e-re the ones %ho hae to deal %ith the emotional and so"ial

!allo$t o! no one "arin#; al%a,s. AL/A4S.

posted by poffin boffinat 5:"" PMon July 15 [31% favorites]

b. Emotional labo$r is not s(e"i" a"ts li>e %ritin# "hristmas "ards; arran#in# isits and dressin# the

>ids in !$nn, "lothes. It is ($ttin# the ener#,; emotion; em(ath,; and ePort into "arin# !or someone

else a">no%led#in# the, are h$man; the, hae needs; and s$bsidin# their o%n !eelin#s in order to

(rioritie someone else. That IS ne"essar, !or a "iilied so"iet,; "omm$nit,; or so"ial #ro$(.

I! eer,one al%a,s ($ts themseles rst; no matter %hat; %e end $( %ith d,s!$n"tional (eo(le in

$nhealth, "omm$nities that ote in sel!&serin# (oliti"ians that "reate la%s that benet the !e%; haein"reased "rime rates; and enironmental de#radation.

posted by sau'ysaultat %:45 #Mon July 1! [%% favorites]

c. It-s reall, %eird that (eo(le are honin# into the detail o! birthda, "ards and dismissin# it as

$nne"essar, %itho$t realiin# %hat the, re(resent & the maintenan"e o! so"ial relationshi(s. O>a,;

,es; ma,be ,o$ or ,o$r mom or ,o$r !o$rth "o$sin doesn-t reall, "are !or birthda,s. B$t een i! ,o$

aren-t sendin# birthda, "ards; ,o$-re (honin# them or brin#in# oer +o%ers !or their bi# o""asions or

sharin# re"i(es %ith them or sho((in# and sendin# them #i!ts !or Christmas and sendin# them than>

,o$ notes !or the #i!ts the, sent ,o$. And then ma,be ,o$-ll ar#$e that the (erson in ?$estion doesn-t

"are abo$t an, o! T1AT shit in isolation; and ma,be it-s tr$e that ,o$ "o$ld dro( one or t%o o! these

thin#s and not see a bi# "han#e in ,o$r relationshi( & b$t tr, dro((in# literall, eer, to>en o! so"ial

intera"tion and then seein# ho% !ar ,o$r relationshi( #ets on radio silen"e. Li>e the %hole (oint is

that relationshi(s are b$ilt $(on h$ndreds o! small intera"tions; none o! them essential; b$t all o!

them im(ortant in "$m$lation. 1onin# in on one as(e"t and #oin# J(Pt that-s triialK doesn-t ma>e

sense.

posted by onspireat 5:3% PMon July 15 [152 favorites]

3. )t$s not the gift

I tho$#ht o! this thread ,esterda, a!ter #ettin# the mail; be"a$se I #ot a than> ,o$ note !rom a

!riendnei#hbor %ho lies a e min$te %al> !rom m, ho$se. She re"entl, had breast "an"er s$r#er,.

/hen I %as #oin# to see her !or the rst time sin"e the (ro"ed$re last %ee>; I tho$#ht Joh; I sho$ld ta>e

her somethin#W ri#ht; I hae that relaation aromathera(, lotionsoa( #i!t set; that %or>s.K I ran $(stairs

to #rab it I al%a,s hae a stash o! #i!ts on hand $st in "ase ,o$ note she had alread, than>ed me in (erson; %hi"h I %o$ld "onsider more than

s$Pi"ient; b, the %a, ,o$ not onl, !or the #i!t; b$t !or the tho$#ht behind the #i!t; the

!eelin# it #ae her that she is #oin# thro$#h this s"ar, time in "omm$nit, %ith (eo(le "arin# abo$t

her"arin# !or hertr,in# to si#nal their loe !or her.

5AGE=
http://www.metafilter.com/user/190387http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6129543http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6129543http://www.metafilter.com/user/161061http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128363http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128363http://www.metafilter.com/user/50385http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6129342http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6129342http://www.metafilter.com/user/140102http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128429http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128429http://www.metafilter.com/user/190387http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6129543http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6129543http://www.metafilter.com/user/161061http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128363http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128363http://www.metafilter.com/user/50385http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6129342http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6129342http://www.metafilter.com/user/140102http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128429http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128429


11/71


To a lot o! the (eo(le sa,in# J$#h; "ards; %ho "aresK or J$st s>i( it; no one I >no% "ares abo$t #ettin#

(resents !or Q@R o""asion;K this is %h, these thin#s matter. The (resent itsel! is se"ondar,. The than> ,o$

"ard itsel! is se"ondar,. The, matter as ehi"les !or messa#es o! loe. The, matter as %a,s o! sa,in# JI

al$e ,o$; I am thin>in# o! ,o$; I treas$re ,o$r (la"e in m, li!e and m, "omm$nit,; and I %ant this

tan#ible obe"t to be a talisman o! m, "are !or ,o$.K

The #i!t itsel! is not the thin#. The "ard itsel! is not the thin#. The relationshi( is the thin#.

I >no% that there are !amilies#ro$(s %here the #i!t or the "ard be"ome obli#ations andor %ea(ons; b$t

the ass$m(tion that this aberrant d,s!$n"tion o! "ertain so"ial s(heres ma>es the (ra"ti"es $nne"essar,

in the rest o! the %orld is +at&o$t abs$rd. ,o$ "ards; b$t be"a$se it allo%ed $s both to !eel loed.

5art o! the inisibilit, o! emotional labor is that its tools are so o!ten damned as abs$rd or !riolo$s.

Listen to the s"orn so man, men sho% !or %omen %ho J#ossi(K; !or eam(le. 1o% o!ten is J#ossi(K a

shorthand sl$r !or Jdis"$ssin# their lies; their ho(es; their dreams; oPerin# one another adi"e; s$((ort;

aPirmationK0

posted by a fiendis( t(in+yat &:"5 #Mon July 1$ [1&5 favorites]

5. Avoiding E7 hurts men

The thin# abo$t Jb$t I don-t "are abo$t "ardsK is that the, >ind o! don-t "are abo$t this st$P; and as a

res$lt the, don-t hae er, man, real; stron# relationshi(s. This reall, is a (atriar"h,&h$rts&men&too

sit$ation; be"a$se re"i(ro"al emotional labor is ne"essar, !or real intima",; and li!e %itho$t intima",

s$">s !or most (eo(le. I don-t (arti"$larl, "are abo$t a"t$all, sendin# "ards; b$t the basi" emotional

labor o! listenin# em(atheti"all,; attendin# to other (eo(le-s needs; >ee(in# in to$"h; et".0 That st$P is

reall, im(ortant. It-s $n!air that %omen hae to do most o! it; b$t it also st$nts and h$rts men %hen the,

don-t do it.

posted by #rbitrary#ndapri'iousat $:4" PMon July 15 [&3 favorites]

6. @The hard data on men$s health and E7

4es; b$t %ido%ers are notabl, more so"iall, dis"onne"ted that %ido%s; be"a$se %hen men don-t do the

%or> o! so"ial "onne"tion o! %hi"h birthda, "ards are merel, a s$bset< and don-t hae a %i!e to do it !or

them; those so"ial "onne"tions %ither and die; %ith statisti"all, notable ill ePe"ts on the health o! older

%ido%ed men:

JThe eiden"e indi"ates that the a#ed male s$rior e(erien"es a diPerent im(a"t !rom s(o$sal loss

than his !emale "o$nter(artand that he en"o$nters seere diPi"$lties in ada(tin# to the sin#le stat$s.

Ad$stment (roblems are es(e"iall, "om(o$nded b, the los o! his o""$(ational role; %hi"h abr$(tl,

remoes him !rom meanin#!$l "onta"t %ith !riends and "o&%or>ers. So"ial isolation amon# a#ed %ido%ers

leads to a (re"ario$s "ondition %hi"h is re+e"ted in $n$s$all, hi#h rates o! mental disorders; s$i"ides;

and mortalit, ris>.K

It-s s$(erreat i! bros in their 2s don-t "are i! their old roommates send them birthda, "ards or not; b$t

a li!etime o! s>i((in# o$t on Jemotional laborK and the (erni"io$s so"ial e(e"tations that t$rn it in to

%omen-s %or> so that men %ho DO do emotional labor are sometimes b,(assed b, so"ial str$"t$res that

($sh it onto their %ies< "reates real and si#ni"ant ne#atie o$t"omes !or men %ho s$Per emotionall,

and (h,si"all, !rom their so"ial isolation && most notabl, !or %ido%ers; b$t dior"ed men also hae a dro(

in %ell&bein# %hen the, lose their s(o$se.

5AGE==
http://www.metafilter.com/user/168461http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6130724http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6130724http://www.metafilter.com/user/190119http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128602http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128602http://www.jstor.org/stable/582141?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contentshttp://www.jstor.org/stable/582141?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contentshttp://www.metafilter.com/user/168461http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6130724http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6130724http://www.metafilter.com/user/190119http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128602http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128602http://www.jstor.org/stable/582141?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contentshttp://www.jstor.org/stable/582141?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


12/71


JLoneliness; de(ression; and so"ial isolation also "ontrib$te to the e"ess mortalit, asso"iated %ith

bereaement; dior"e; or neer hain# married. A 1arard st$d, re(orted that so"iall, isolated men hae

an 2X hi#her ris> o! d,in# !rom heart disease; "om(ared %ith men %ho hae stron# inter(ersonal

relationshi(s. And the Ne% En#land 3esear"h Instit$te re(orted that X o! men rel, on their %ies !or

their (rimar, so"ial s$((orts onl, 2=X rel, on other (eo(le; and =X hae no s$"h s$((orts. Clearl,;

s$btra"tin# a %i!e #reatl, in"reases a man-s ris> o! isolation. K

4o$ ma, be in the 2=X o! men %ho hae so"ial s$((orts other than a s(o$se. That-s #reat' B$t ah$$$$$$$$$$#e (ro(ortion o! men rel, almost entirel, on their %ies !or so"ial "onne"tion and that is a abo$t in this thread.

And no% that I-e $nderlined Y/hatAbo$tTheMen and #ien eiden"e that a< %omen do a"t$all, do the

b$l> o! emotional labor and b< it has ne#atie ePe"ts on men; "an %e #o ba"> to tal>in# abo$t %omen and

emotional labor0 Instead o! men "om(lainin# that %omen are $st doin# thin#s that nobod, #ies a shit

abo$t0 /E GET IT; 4OH DON-T GIE A S1IT; BHT /E STILL CA3E BECAHSE IT MAES 4OH MEN DIE

SOONE3 AND T1AT-S *HST T1E IND OF EMOTIONAL LABO3 SE3ICE /E /OMEN 53OIDE FO3

4OH.

And #o send ,o$r "olle#e roommate a #oddamned Jthin>in# o! ,o$'K "ard so he doesn-t "roa>.

posted by /yebro-s M'0eeat 5:45 PMon July 15 [31! favorites]

QSee also; ))). A. /. The address boo; on (a#e2R

8. )$m repenting of bacing o

I $sed to tr, to be a little better abo$t these thin#s. In (ast ,ears; I made a real ePort %ith m, bo,!riend-s

!amil, %ho lies lo"all,in# and "leanin# $( een %hen the brothers and their !ather neer did. Then I realied that m,

bo,!riend %as ma>in# no ePort %ith M4 !amil, and %as barel, doin# the %or> %ith his he does hae

reasons !or that; I sho$ld notein# !or or e(e"tin# re"i(ro"it, I $st "om(letel,disen#a#ed and made s$re that dealin# %ith his !amil, %as entirel, his ob. And the res$lt %as that I lost

more h$man "onne"tion.

I also tho$#ht that the disen#a#ement %ith emotional labor %as someho% a si#n o! modernit,. 4o$n#er

%omen aren-t as obli#ated or e(e"ted to do it an,more; so the, sho$ldn-t. That is s$"h the %ron#

ans%er' Emotional labor is im(ortant and still needs to be done. Other%ise %e inhabit a disen#a#ed;

$n"onne"ted %orld that !eels em(t, and deoid o! !eelin#. A lot o! men; and those o! $s %ho aren-t doin#

o$r !air share; $st need to ste( $(.

And it-s im(ortant !or $s sla">ers to remember that emotional labor is; d$h ; LABO3. It-s %or>. It-s time

and ePort and it-s hard. All this time I-e been thin>in# that sin"e I-m not #ood at it; it-s not m, Jthin#;K

so I don-t need to do it. It doesn-t "ome Jnat$rall,K so I mi#ht %as %ell aoid it. This is b$llshit. I! ,o$

aren-t #ood at somethin#; ,o$ (ra"ti"e'

An,%a,; than> ,o$ all !or this thread. It has been tr$l, e,e&o(enin# and tho$#ht&(roo>in#.

posted by *aneri'aat 3:4$ PMon #u+ust 1" [45 favorites]

5AGE=2
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/marriage-and-mens-healthhttp://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/marriage-and-mens-healthhttp://www.metafilter.com/user/102200http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128439http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128439http://www.metafilter.com/user/94060http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6161784http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6161784http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/marriage-and-mens-healthhttp://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/marriage-and-mens-healthhttp://www.metafilter.com/user/102200http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6128439http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6128439http://www.metafilter.com/user/94060http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6161784http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6161784


13/71


C. &h# we dont +ust need to communicate better about our needs God: we

have tried

. Do #ou seriousl# thin we haven$t tried that'

Maybe instead of asking for cash money, the ask should be, ;remember when ) ga1e you emotional

support2 @ould you copy that beha1ior and reect it back at me the ne+t time ) need support2

Are ,o$ $nder the im(ression that %e haen-t tried this alread,0 Be"a$se man, o! $s hae tried this. As a

res$lt; %e hae been told that %e-re ima#inin# the imbalan"e; that the man b$,s all the st$P and thin>s

that-s a !air brea>do%n; that he !eels li>e a terrible (erson %hen %e as> him to ste( $( %hi"h leads to

him sobbin# and her ba"> (attin#; b$t no "han#e !rom him; that he does (er!orm emotional labor and %e $st don-t noti"e; that he >no%s

he has (riile#e; b$t it-s not his !a$lt he %as born male.

B$t be!ore een #ettin# there; ,o$ are also s$##estin# %e as> men to noti"e %hen %e need s$((ort.

/hi"h not all men< men are alread, not doin#; and m$st be ta$#ht to do. Or ,o$ are s$##estin# that %e

re?$est emotional labor at the time %e %ant it. The "lassi" eam(le o! %oman "om(lainin# abo$t her da,

at %or> and the #$, oPerin# Jsol$tionsK instead o! sa,in# J%o% that reall, s$">s and it so$nds li>e ,o$

handled it %ell. Can I do somethin# to hel( ,o$ !eel better0K Or better still; he $st does a thin# he >no%s%ill ma>e her !eel better.ed him to (i"> $( a!ter himsel! and then !o$nd m,sel! shierin# %ith

!r$stration %hen he ineitabl, i#nored me; the se"ond m, tone belied so m$"h as a hint o! anno,an"e; the

dominoes !ell li>e "lo">%or>: Lo$d 1$P; Silent Treatment; Stom( Aro$nd the 1o$se; An#ril, 5la, @bo;

Go O$t to the Bar; andor T$rn OP M, 5hone and Disa((ear !or 2&2 1o$rs. No matter ho% m$"h I

made s$re to (reem(tiel, ne$ter and de!an# een the sim(lest re?$est; he onl, eer res(onded to me

li>e I-d $st told him to !$"> oP. Li>e as>in# him to behae in a manner more ttin# o! a #ro%n ad$lt %as

ins$ltin# on its !a"e.

As his reti"en"e #ot to me more and more; he #re% in"reasin#l, emboldened; to the (oint %here as>in#

him to do an,thin# && ($t ,o$r em(t, beer "ans in the re","lin# bin0 $nload the dish%asher; or at least

($t ,o$r dirt, dishes in the dish%asher I $st em(tied instead o! sta">in# them in the sin>0 !or the loe o!

Christ; +$sh the toilet a!ter ,o$ $se it0 && %as eent$all, $st met %ith a steel,&e,ed #lare; a !$rro%ed

bro%; and a slammed bedroom door. Not een Jno;K $st starin# at me li>e I %as n$ts and then a"atin#

the (remises. And then it %as $( to me to "oen and ma>e ni"e a!ter%ard; a(olo#ie %ith a little #i!t or

5AGE=)
http://www.metafilter.com/user/29460http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6132862http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6132862http://www.metafilter.com/user/29460http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6132862http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6132862


14/71


$st >ee( ?$iet and Do The Thin# m,sel!; all o! %hi"h %ere a"tions I a((arentl, (er!ormed as some sort o!

rote dis(la, o! rit$alied s$bmission and sel!&loathin#. It ma>es me !eel so embarrassed and ashamed to

remember.

So I s(ent ,ears ''< liin# that %a,; ti(toein# on e##shells in m, o%n home; be!ore m, li!e im(loded and I

s$ddenl, realied that I %as not a"t$all, obli#ated to s(end the rest o! m, li!e "aterin# to an,one; let

alone someone %ho had #ro%n so "om!ortable dis(la,in# ho% m$"h "ontem(t he had !or me. It blo%s m,

mind to remember && not $st the !a"t that I %as eent$all, #ro$nd do%n so !ar that I "o$ldn-t een #et$(set abo$t the %a, thin#s %ere; b$t that I had "onin"ed m,sel! it %as all (er!e"tl, normal; nothin#

more than (art o! the ario$s "om(romises and sa"ri"es (eo(le hae to ma>e in relationshi(s.

FHC T1AT.

posted by divined by radioat 12:35 PMon July 24 [123 favorites]

3. tor#% F) won$t be #elled at! he #ells

Maybe ) am (ust really bad at communication, or ha1ing arguments.

Or it-s ho% ,o$r SO >ee(s ,o$ on the de!ensie; and no% ,o$ hae to sort thro$#h and hel( VtheirV

!eelin#s. AGAIN.

Another stor,: I lie in a small; ) bedroom ho$se. /hen m, e&an"e the lila" (r$ner< moed in; %ebro$#ht his st$P into the rst +oor !amil, room; %ith an V$ns(o>enV $nderstandin# that his st$P and

doens o! boes %o$ld be moed and $n(a">ed. 3i#ht0 That-s $st %hat ,o$ do %hen ,o$ moe. 4o$ (a">;

moe; then HN5AC. Or so I tho$#ht.

So he-d been liin# %ith me and Thin# ) !or abo$t a month )= da,s. DA4S.< and the sta">ed boes ta>in#

$( =) o! the !amil, room %ere still there. /e had to "reate alternate ro$tes to $se the room; ser(entinin#

thro$#h sta">s o! his "ra(. /hen he needed to nd somethin#; he-d start tearin# thro$#h boes;

sear"hin# and sear"hin# and then thro% eer,thin# ba"> INTO the boes.

I said nothin# !or the rst !e% %ee>s; be"a$se I %as tr,in# to be "ool and thin>in# o! (rote"tin# his

s(e"ial !eelin#s and not %antin# to seem li>e a shre% b$t obio$sl,; in%ardl, seethin#; JDo ,o$ not see

the mo$ntains o! S1IT ,o$-e #ot "l$tterin# the %hole ho$se0 Can ,o$ DO SOMET1ING0K

%ee>s later; I Vdeli"atel,V a((roa"hed him in the mornin#; ba">(edalin# the %hole time; JOh he,; I-m so#lad ,o$-re here and BLA1 BLA1 BLA1 and (lease let me >no% 1O/ I CAN 1EL5 ,o$ $n(a">.K

And he $m(s o$t o! bed; starts slammin# doors and doesn-t tal> to me !or the entire DA4. And I s(ent the

entire da, thin>in# that *ESHS FHC he %as >ind o! an asshole and ma,be moin# in %as a reall, bad

idea.

Later that ni#ht; ammed in bet%een all the boes; I-m tr,in# to #et him to tal> to or een a">no%led#e

me and the onl, thin# he said %as; J4o$ "an-t amb$sh me rst thin# in the mornin# li>e that. 4o$ hae to

let me %a>e $(. 4o$ need to as> me ni"el,. I-m not #oin# to do an,thin# !or someone %ho ,ells at me he

%as ,ellin# this the entire time and atta"> and ,o$ need to %or> on 4OH3

"omm$ni"ation s>ills be"a$se I /ON-T BE 4ELLED AT LIE T1AT.K

So; ,eah. Bein# told that m, "omm$ni"ation s>ills are la">in# be"a$se I %ant them to do a (er!e"tl,

obio$s T1INGdo%n on Sat$rda, %here the eha$stion o! bein# the Solo Emotional Laborer in

m, marria#e hit me li>e a bri">. I-m $s$all, the rst one to #et $( and #et brea>!ast started; b$t I

tho$#ht this on"e I-d let m, h$sband ta>e the lead. A!ter eatin#; as %e-re %at"hin# Net+i !rom the

5AGE=
http://www.metafilter.com/user/170095http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139806http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139806http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139806http://www.metafilter.com/user/133338http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6142081http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6142081http://www.metafilter.com/user/170095http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139806http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139806http://www.metafilter.com/user/133338http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6142081http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6142081


15/71


"o$"h I !all aslee( and m$mble somethin# abo$t bein# tired to m, h$sband. It %as onl, at the end o!

the da, %hen I "o$ld arti"$late %hat had me so eha$sted; that I a((roa"hed him !or a serio$s

"onersation.

Oh m, #od.

T$rns o$t I had a shitt, attit$de the %hole da,; that I %as s$l>in# on the "o$"h; that I %asn-t bein# an

ad$lt b, Jtri">in#K him and ta>in# a ste( ba"> %ith "oo>in# to see i! he-d ste( $(; that the %hole

thin# eha$sted him and be"a$se o! that he-s in s$"h a bad mood that he "an-t deal %ith this; on and

on and on. And in tears I told him that he "o$ld either "on"entrate on m, rea"tion or the thin#s that

are "a$sin# it. Can ,o$ #$ess %hat %e tal>ed abo$t0

M, tone.

1o% I "o$ld not %orr, abo$t m, tone in these "onersations b$t the "onse?$en"es o! that a"tion is

"om(letel, on me; that he !elt atta">ed and ins$lted b, m, %ord "hoi"e; that %hen it "ame to bein#

em(atheti" and readin# (eo(le and bein# there !or them he %as m$"h better at it than me; that he

%as so eha$sted !rom mana#in# (ersonalities and "on+i"ts at %or> that he $st "o$ldn-t deal %ith

an,thin# at home on to( o! it and I needed to be sensitie to that; that he doesn-t !eel a((re"iated; on

and on. And on.

I-e neer !elt so lo% in m, entire li!e.

/e #ot thro$#h it someho% tho$#h it-s mostl, a bl$r; b$t %e made $( and a(olo#ied and toda, %e-re

s$((osed to Fi#$re This O$t. B$t rememberin# %hat ha((ened ma>es me so an#r, that I-m abo$t to

!$">in# b$rst here. And de"idin# %hether to rehash this ar#$ment and eld more st$(id is ma>in#

me an#r,. And the !a"t that he tho$#ht that %as an o>a, %a, to treat his %i!e ma>es me an#r,.

B$t !$">; I #$ess I-m s$((osed to s%allo% it all do%n and ma>e ni"e i! %e-re to moe !or%ard0

And ,o$ >no% %hat the real >i">er is; the (art that ma>es me realie he doesn-t a"t$all, #et this at

all0 I made a lon# list !or him o! all the thin#s I hae to %orr, abo$t on a dail, basis; all the thin#s I

>ee( tra"> o! in m, head; all the (lates I >ee( s(innin# to ma>e s$re o$r ho$sehold is !$n"tional; and

%hen he a((ended "omments to it none o! them %ere JI-ll ta>e this oer immediatel,;K it %as J/e-ll

alternate this.K Or J/e-ll "reate a s"hed$le.K

1o% "an I ma>e him $nderstand ho% h$rt!$l that is0 I don-t een hae the %ords at this (oint.

posted by errati !eatsa"at11:31 #Mon July 2$ [%0 favorites]

b. that he felt attacked and insulted by my word choice

This is the %orst mind!$"> be"a$se there are no ma#i" %ords; ,et ,o$ "an s(end ,ears in m, "ase ,ears o! tr,in# to

nall, sto( "arin#.

errati" meatsa">: there are no ma#i" %ords to ma>e him $nderstand. It-s etremel, hard to a""e(t

that either he does not "are to $nderstand; or he does $nderstand and doesn-t "are to admit it. B$t

ass$min# he s(ea>s En#lish +$entl,; those are ,o$r onl, t%o o(tions. I-m sorr,.

posted by des*ardinsat 11:5" #Mon July 2$ [42 favorites]

6. ust another wa# to demand E7 of women

& %hi"h a"t$all, leads me onto another tho$#ht abo$t tho$#htlessness s(e"i"all,; the idea that i! %e $st

tried harderto e(lain; made it more ob1ious%hat %e %ere doin# and %hat %e %anted; %e-d #et it && the

idea that %e-re not communicatingeno$#h. And on the one hand; ,es; doin# that "omm$ni"ation or on

the other hand the anti"i(ation o! needs< is emotional labo$r and ,et ma>in# it o$r responsibilityto

e(lain o$r desires and needs and (re!eren"es in eer sim(ler lan#$a#e is... %ell. It reminds me o! the

5AGE=6
http://www.metafilter.com/user/219173http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6142590http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6142590http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6142590http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6142590http://www.metafilter.com/user/48794http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6142630http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6142630http://www.metafilter.com/user/219173http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6142590http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6142590http://www.metafilter.com/user/48794http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6142630http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6142630


16/71


%a, a lot o! m, nearest Z dearest; man, o! %hom are ab$se s$riors; %ant to beliee that an, ar#$ment

or disa#reement is their !a$lt; "a$sed b, them; be"a$se the, didn-t behae ri#ht and the, %eren-t #ood

eno$#h.

Be"a$se i! it-s $s !ailin# then %e "an it. B, $st & J$stK & bein# better.

And (erha(s that is %h, I s(ent so lon# des(eratel, tr,in# to e(lain to the terrible e that it %as reall,

$(settin# to me %hen he did Q%hateerR; be"a$se i! it %as the "ase that I %asn-t bein# clear enough abo$t

%h, I %as $(set; instead o! it bein# that he & ahem & $st didn-t "are...

posted by kaberettat 3:4& PMon #u+ust 13 [1$ favorites]

8. ) literall# could not be clearer... also: )t$s rela1ing'! Do #ou even hear

#ourself'

a. Babelsh;I am so #lad ,o$ sho%ed $( here. 4o$r stor, and the res$ltin# thread< has been a

reelation !or me and nall, [ nall,' [ #ien me %ords !or somethin# that has bothered me !or so

lon# and that I "o$ld neer arti"$late. Co$nt me in as another (erson %ho-s li!e this has "han#ed.

I haen-t read all the %a, thro$#h ,o$r se"ond arti"le ,et; b$t so !ar it-s remindin# me a bit o! m,

o%n marria#e brea>do%n. I had a #ood h$sband that I loed b$t be"a$se o! one maor iss$e; I had to

leae him. 1e "ontin$es to this da, to be "on!$sed abo$t %h, I le!t. /hi"h is n$ts; be"a$se; bein# a

bi# belieer in o(en "omm$ni"ation; I told him more times than I "an remember [ J1e,; Qthis iss$eR is

a real (roblem !or me. I !eel s"aredsad%orriedde(ressed %hen ,o$ do it. I "an-t lie li>e this. I loe

,o$ b$t i! somethin# doesn-t "han#e; I %ill hae to leae.K I %as that dire"t. I told him this m$lti(le

times. Then; %hen I nall, did leae %e had m$lti(le lon# ar#$ments abo$t %h, I %as leain#

be"a$se as he said; he %as a #ood h$sband' 1e neer hit me; he neer messed aro$nd %ith other

%omen; he hel(ed aro$nd the ho$se; et". I %as li>e [ that is BASELINE behaior. 4o$ don-t #et

a%ards !or thin#s ,o$ are or are not s$((osed to be doin# to be#in %ith' I reminded him I told him

m$lti(le times %hat m, (roblems %ere and %hat I %o$ld do i! the, %ere not addressed. I a"t$all,

reminded him o! this MHLTI5LE TIMES AS /ELL. It %as insanit,. I %as li>e; T1E3E IS NO /A4 FO3

ME TO BE MO3E CLEA3 ON T1IS. 1e still doesn-t >no% %h, I le!t and that en"a(s$lates it !or me.

1e heard %hat he %anted to hear; %hat %as "onenient !or him. I! it didn-t "a$se him an, iss$es; he

had no (roblem listenin# to me and hearin# %hat I said. I! it did; he mentall, disre#arded it.

An,%a,; that %as e ,ears a#o. Fast !or%ard to no% and I-e #one o$t a !e% times %ith a #$, that I

li>e. I >no% he reall, li>es me too. I >no% he loes bein# aro$nd me. 1e is a er, (ro#ressie; liberal

#$, and seems to be a !eminist in eer, other %a, %itho$t een tr,in#. S$(er res(e"t!$l o! %omen;

ta>es them serio$sl,; all o! it. 1e told me he %anted to ta>e thin#s slo%. Fine. /e re"entl, had a tal>

and he told me a#ain that he doesn-t !eel read, !or an,thin# serio$s b$t he loes han#in# o$t %ith me

and he-s not datin# an,one else. I >no% both o! these thin#s are tr$e. 1e said he-s tr,in# to #$re o$t

%h, he doesn-t !eel read, he-s a !e% ,ears o$t o! a lon# term marria#es it-s be"a$se

he-s not read, !or the emotional "ommitment o! a relationshi(. /hen I as>ed him to elaborate he said

he reall, li>es han#in# aro$nd %ith his #$, !riends be"a$se nothin# is e(e"ted o! him and he !eels

li>e he "an rela. So I as>ed; then %h, een date %omen0 /h, not $st han# o$t %ith ,o$r #$,

!riends0 And he said that he loes bein# aro$nd %omen be"a$se the,-re >ind; and so!t and "om!ortin#

and the, ma>e him !eel relaed and #ood in a %a, that men don-t. And I %as li>e [ ,o$ mean

n$rt$rin#0 And he %as li>e [ 4ES; n$rt$rin#. And so I then too> the o((ort$nit, to tell him brie+,abo$t ,o$r arti"le and ho% emotional labor is the #l$e that ties thin#s to#ether and ma>es thin#s !eel

sa!e and "om!ortin# and eer,thin# else; b$t then he %as distra"ted "onenientl,< b, a reall, bad

storm that %as #oin# on o$tside at the time and I dro((ed it.

B$t essentiall,; this #$, told me that he %ants all the #ood thin#s that "ome !rom bein# %ith a %oman

[ the "om!ort and the "are [ b$t that he %asn-t Jread,K to re"i(ro"ate in an, %a,; i.e. he doesn-t

/ANT to do it. And the thin# is & he-s a"t$all, an other%ise reall, ni"e and smart #$,. 1e %as s$(er

$na%are o! %hat he %as a"t$all, sa,in#. I thin> i! I told him a similar stor,; b$t !ramed it as $st some

man %ho %anted to ta>e !rom a relationshi( b$t #ie nothin# ba">; he %o$ld be horried b, the #$,-s

5AGE=
http://www.metafilter.com/user/228547http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6166099http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6166099http://www.metafilter.com/user/227748http://www.metafilter.com/user/227748http://www.metafilter.com/user/228547http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6166099http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6166099http://www.metafilter.com/user/227748


17/71


behaior. And the reason is that I don-t thin> he sees it as a"t$al /O3 that %omen do. I thin> he

hasn-t eer tho$#ht abo$t it and $st ass$mes that ma,be bein# "om!ortin# and n$rt$rin# is $st a

(art o! a %oman-s essen"e or somethin# and that it-s nat$ral and al%a,s $st >ind o! ma#i"all, there.

Li>e a lot o! (eo(le; he doesn-t see that there is ePort behind it. Be"a$se he-s neer had to see it.

An,%a,; than> ,o$ a#ain !or ($ttin# %ords to this and #ettin# it o$t there. 4o$-e em(o%ered me and

"o$ntless other %omen and I ho(e this is the be#innin# o! a h$#e a%areness&b$ildin# era in o$r

so"iet, aro$nd the inisible %or> that %omen do.

posted by tri++erfin+erat 2:4& PMon July 2" [11! favorites]

b. :hen ) asked him to elaborate he said he really likes hanging around with his guy friends because

nothing is e+pected of him and he feels like he can rela+. "o ) asked, then why e1en date women2

:hy not (ust hang out with your guy friends2 !nd he said that he lo1es being around women because

theyre kind, and soft and comforting and they make him feel rela+ed and good in a way that men

dont. !nd ) was like 7 you mean nurturing2 !nd he was like 7 *E", nurturing.

4o$ >no%; m, h$sband !or the most (art is one o! the stellar ones in (i">in# $( on emotional labor. 1e

deals %ith his !amil,; remembers dates; (a,s attention to %hat I li>e; et". et". et".

B$t he said he "o$ld totall, related to the aboe sentiments.

So; I laid it o$t +at !or him; and he said he-d neer reall, tho$#ht abo$t it that %a,. E"$se the all"a(s !or ,o$ no !$">in# >iddin#< is... %ell; it "an be deastatin#.

It-s an indi"ation o! ho% little ,o$ are al$ed. The "om(lete la"> o! em(ath, %here ,o$ "an-t een

"on"eie that the thin# ,o$ don-t %ant to do b" it-s not relain# is also not relain# !or the other

(erson.

O,.

posted by +aspodeat %:2" #Mon July 21 [&& favorites]

9. The catch-// of being upset enough

The "at"h&22 o! bein# $(set enoughs$">s. I-e had to e(lain oer and oer that I don-t li>e the %a, that

thin#s hae to rea"h brea>in# (oint; %here I-m "r,in# $n"ontrollabl, and !or#ettin# to eat in order !or m,

needs to be ta>en serio$sl,; sin"e as>in# and oi"in# m, "on"erns isn-t eno$#h. I don-t li>e hain# to sla(

m, hand on the table and sa, 7sto(-- be"a$se all m, 7$#h- and 7e%- and 7no this is #ross- isn-t enoughto

si#nal that the "onersation is #oin# (la"es I don-t %ant it to.

I hate hain# to e(lain that this isn-t silent treatment; as i! I %ant to tal> b$t I-m re!$sin# to o$t o! (i?$e

it-s that I #en$inel, am done talking. I hae tried talking. It didn-t %or>. No% I hae to do emer#en",

mental health"are; so ,eah; ,o$r s$dden need to tal> "an %ait.

posted by +eek ana'(ronisat 5:3% PMon #u+ust 13 [24 favorites]

;. This is an attac on m# character!...

a. Be!ore m, best !riend-s an"\ had his li#htb$lb moment; he too> the entire thin# s$(er a##ressiel,.

It %as (ersonal; it %as an atta">; he does e1erything she asks; it %as !anati" etremism aro$nd a

made $( thin#; et". I mean she %as in tears tal>in# to me. Thin#s are m$"h better sin"e then %ith

smaller $(s and do%ns; than>!$ll,.< B$t that J4o$-re $n$stl, a""$sin# me o! bein# a terrible (ersonK

is s$"h a "onsistent male rea"tion in m, e(erien"e that %e lie o$r %hole lies e(e"tin# it. It-s not

5AGE=


18/71


!air to #eneralie and I-m dra%in# stri"tl, !rom m, o%n (ast here; b$t I-e ,et to meet a %oman %ho

hasn-t been trained sin"e birth to "are!$ll, "onsider "riti"ism and thefact''< that o! "o$rse she-s not

(er!e"t. /hereas the men in m, li!e0 Een the reall, #ood a%esome men0 JThis is an ATTAC on m,

C1A3ACTE3.K

/hat #ies0

posted by errati' eatsa'kat 12:15 PMon July 24 [$$ favorites]

b. JI-e ,et to meet a %oman %ho hasn-t been trained sin"e birth to "are!$ll, "onsider "riti"ism and the

!a"t ''< that o! "o$rse she-s not (er!e"tK

I re#ret that I hae b$t one !aorite to #ie !or this "omment. And to ta>e "riti"ism and learn !rom it

and be told it-s not a (ersonal atta"> and tr, not to "r, i! heaen !orbid ,o$-re one o! the sensitie

ones. As o((osed to immediatel, #ettin# ,o$r ha">les $( and #oin# on the de!ensie.

posted by fier'e'up'akeat 12:1& PMon July 24 [2% favorites]

c. errati" meatsa">; it doesn-t een need to rise to the leel o! a"t$al "riti"ism. Failin# to demonstrate

(ro(er a((re"iation !or them doin# somethin# W an,thin#' W is seen as an assa$lt on their sel!&

%orth.

Li>e; than>s !or tr,in# to do me a !aor; b$t it didn-t a"t$all, ma>e thin#s better and no% I hae tomana#e ,o$r h$rt !eelin#s that I-m not !allin# oer !rom enth$siasm.

posted by Lei'aat 12:2" PMon July 24 [22 favorites]

d. *oure un(ustly accusing me of being a terrible person

O$rs al%a,s %ent li>e:

him: ,o$ thin> I-m s$"h an asshole V(o$tV

me; tr,in# to soothe him: no; I neer "alled ,o$ that; I said I had a (roblem %ith QbehaiorR

I #$ess I %o$ld hae saed $s both a lot o! time i! I-d $st "alled him an asshole.

posted by des*ardinsat 12:24 PMon July 24 [!! favorites]

e. Oh that J!ra#ile male e#oK. I hear it er, o!ten; ,o$ >no%. In"l$din# !rom %omen %ho hae been

ta$#ht that hardl, an,thin# in this li!e is more im(ortant than (rote"tin# men-s (oor de!enseless

e#os.

I on"e told a !emale !riend abo$t m, then&bo,!riend. 1e %as steerin# me to%ards the bedroom %a,

too !ast and I told him as m$"h. 1e %as not ha((, %ith me and #ot all $(set and de!ensie; and %hen

I told m, !riend abo$t this; she said; JB$t o! "o$rse he %as' It %as li>e ,o$ told him he %as doin#

somethin# %ron#'K 1onestl,; no "omment.

posted by 0uelderat 1:4" PMon July 22 [1 favorite]

f. 'his is an !''!@A on my @3!B!@'EB.

C:hat gi1es2

I Qa manR hae to ass$me it-s s$b"ons"io$s or ma,be not een all that s$b< attit$des abo$t ta>in# an,

"riti"ism or dire"tion !rom %omen. I-e (robabl, s(ent abo$t hal! m, (ro!essional li!e ans%erin# to a

!emale boss. /hi"h is (robabl, not somethin# I %o$ld hae #ien one tho$#ht to i! I hadn-t elded

?$estions abo$t %hether that %as a (roblem !or me. M$lti(le times. In !orms li>e Jand ,o$ don-t hae

a (roblem %ith that0K

5AGE=
http://www.metafilter.com/user/219173http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139787http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139787http://www.metafilter.com/user/47772http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139792http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139792http://www.metafilter.com/user/90887http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139793http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139793http://www.metafilter.com/user/48794http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139799http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139799http://www.metafilter.com/user/227754http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6136868http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6136868http://www.metafilter.com/user/219173http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139787http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139787http://www.metafilter.com/user/47772http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139792http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139792http://www.metafilter.com/user/90887http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139793http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139793http://www.metafilter.com/user/48794http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139799http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139799http://www.metafilter.com/user/227754http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6136868http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6136868


19/71


There-s $st no %a, to inter(ret that ?$estion !rom another man in an, %a, other than an

a""om(an,in# messa#e o! Jbe"a$se ,o$ sho$ld.K Hnless I-d earlier r$n oP on some e"essie anti&

%oman s"reed; I #$ess; and the, tho$#ht this %as a "ontradi"tion 4o$-ll $st hae to ta>e m, %ord

that s$"h %as not the "ase.

I! "riti"ism !rom @ strin#s more then that-s a (rett, "lear indi"ation that one thin>s @ is not ?$alied

or %ithin their ri#hts to "riti"ie ,o$. Ma,be it-s not al%a,s internalied miso#,n, b$t absent a

reason someone "an o"alie that s$re seems li>e a reasonable #o&to ass$m(tion.

posted by p(earle6at 12:2% PMon July 24 [1$ favorites]

=. Hee1ive apologiIing...

a. Me ia e&mail I s$"> at it0

Mom: 4es; (rett, m$"h. B$t I loe ,o$ an,%a,.

Q5a$se %hile I ta>e "are o! shit aro$nd the ho$se be!ore re(l,in#R

QCome ba"> to si e&mails in a ro% !rom m, mom a(olo#iin# i! she h$rt m, !eelin#s; "riti"iin# her

o%n #i!tiin# s>ills; reass$rin# me abo$t mine; as>in# i! I %ant to do #i!tiin# diPerentl, %ith her;

et".R

posted by 7otoddyat 4:"& PMon July 2! [13 favorites]

b. 1otTodd,;I !eel ,o$r mom so much. Vhas done T1AT E@ACT FLH334 OF /O334&DANCINGV

4o$ start o$t sa,in# somethin# honest and reasonable and then the /1AT IF #oes into oerdrie. O1

GOD /1AT IF T1IS IS T1E LAST ST3A/ /1AT IF T1E4 /ON-T S5EA TO ME /1AT IF T1E4

T1IN I T1IN I AM SH5E3IO3 T1AT IS NOT /1AT I MEANT O1 GOD /1AT IF T1E4 T1IN I

MEANT T1E4 COHLD NEE3 DO BETTE3 /1AT IF T1E4 T1IN I DON-T LOE T1EM I AM SO

SO3344444444.

.. %hi"h; no% that I %rite it o$t; is e1erything ) ha1e been conditioned to do e1ery time ) potentially

oend a man.

/o%.

posted by /8 9(ite(allat 4:11 PMon July 2! [42 favorites]

c. M, mother re+eiel, a(olo#ies to inanimate obe"ts she dro(s>no">s oeroPends. /e la$#h abo$t

it; b$t in li#ht o! this thread it-s sli#htl, horri!,in#.

posted by restlessnoadat 4:13 PMon July 2! [22 favorites]

d. Sorr,; hain# a reelation moment here. This shit is "onditioned res(onse. I mean; the +$rr, o! %orr,

in res(onse to a dela, && shit; I-e done that; and it-s not be"a$se o! them ea"tl,; it-s be"a$se o! the

%a,s that (eo(le I hae loed in m, li!e && es(e"iall, men; es(e"iall, m, !ather and bo,!riends && hae

res(onded to een the sli#htest bit o! "riti"ism. /ith the s$l>in#; and the im(li"it threat o! emotional

%ithdra%al or the a"t$al (ra"ti"e o! emotional %ithdra%al'esho$rs and there-s the total %ithdra%al and the mo">in# and the re!$sal to li!t een one n#er !or

an,thin# and the sittin# in ,o$r %a, blo">in# thin#s or $st disa((earin# alto#ether %itho$t a %ord

and re!$sin# to ans%er email or (hone or an,thin# li>e that; all the st$P other (eo(le hae des"ribed

$(thread.

5AGE=8
http://www.metafilter.com/user/23322http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139801http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139801http://www.metafilter.com/user/73994http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6141662http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6141662http://www.metafilter.com/user/73994http://www.metafilter.com/user/73994http://www.metafilter.com/user/184386http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6141669http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6141669http://www.metafilter.com/user/28936http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6141671http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6141671http://www.metafilter.com/user/23322http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6139801http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6139801http://www.metafilter.com/user/73994http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6141662http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6141662http://www.metafilter.com/user/73994http://www.metafilter.com/user/184386http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6141669http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6141669http://www.metafilter.com/user/28936http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6141671http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6141671


20/71


All the +$rr, and instant aniet, is an attem(t to head that oP at the (ass && it-s #oin# to ha((en

an,%a,; it ha((ens so o!ten; there-s s$"h a ris> o! it ha((enin# a#ain; so %h, not do it all at on"e $st

in "ase I "an soothe them eno$#h to aoid all that0 To aoid the !eelin# o! (ani">in# abo$t %hether

the, don-t loe me an,more; %hether this is one moment too !ar and the, neer s(ea> to me a#ain

and neer "ome ba"> and neer li>e me a#ain0

Ooo!. Shiiiiiit.

/hat is this een "alled; 7"onditioned res(onse to inter(ersonal iolen"e-0 Conditioned !ear o!

abandonment0 I d$nno. Shit. I mean; this is >ind o! inter(ersonal iolen"e; ma,be0 Ahhh; do$btin#

m,sel! no%' B$t I-e al%a,s seen that >ind o! silen"e and (assieness and de!ensieness as a threat;

someho%. It-s al%a,s !elt threatenin#; li>e the (ros(e"t o! an $ltimat$m. Ma,be I am $st reall, bad

at "omm$ni"ation; or hain# ar#$ments. Tho$#h I-e had (rod$"tie ar#$ments; b$t #enerall, onl,

%ith (eo(le %ho a"t$all, s(ea> to me abo$t %hat-s ha((enin#; and it-s harder to hae a (rod$"tie

ar#$ment %ith someone %ho ma>es ,o$ be# !or the basis o! the ar#$ment to be#in %ith. Eeeeesh.

That is !$">ed $(.

posted by /8 9(ite(allat 4:2! PMon July 2! [3$ favorites]

?. ) don$t have to pacage m# pain in bite-siIe: sugar-coated morsels for #ou

) (ust cant identity with someone who persists in contacting someone who doesnt want to be contacted,

or will feel in any way guilty about not cleaning the tops of windows or not being able to fold a %tted

sheet.

So don-t identi!, %ith the stories; then. I didn-t share m, stor, as an easil,&absorbed (hiloso(hi"al (ie"e

!or ,o$ or !or an,one else it-s M4 tr$th. Christ; that-s (rett, m$"h the >ernel o! the (roblem that IS

emotional labor; this e(e"tation that %omen are s$((osed to thin> ahead and "$rb and tailor their

tho$#hts into easil,&"ons$med (ar"els !or men and FO3 GOD-S SAE don-t ro"> the boat.

No. I-m tellin# a stor,. /hether or not ,o$ nd it (ersonall, releant or %o$ld (re!er somethin# a little

less etreme0 I don-t "are. Let $s tell o$r stories %itho$t someone $m(in# in to sa, o$r stories aren-t

to$"hin# them (ersonall, be"a$se o$r realities are too etreme.

posted by kineti'at 3:43 PMon July 22 [&4 favorites]

. Jou thought the# were running to meet #ou: too

1e, LambCho(; it too> me t%o da,s to realie that m, e-s ra#e be"a$se I %o$ldn-t "om!ort him oer

!ailin# to (a, "hild s$((ort %as not onl, "ra,; b$t that oh he,; he didn-t een thin> to a(olo#ie !or not

(a,in# "hild s$((ort or noti"e that it mi#ht be a tad stress!$l !or me %ith the !ar less %ell&(aid ob and

!$ll&time (arentin# to hear that there-s no mone, !or #ro"eries; so "an he borro% some mone, to (a, the

health ins$ran"e....

4o$ #et trained to thin> handlin# all this is %hat A Good /oman does. That it-s selsh and "r$el to be

an#r, and $nha((, abo$t someone ,o$ loe h$rtin# ,o$; and God !orbid that ,o$ e(ress that alo$d or

ma>e them !eel an, more distress !or %hat the,-e done. B$t that-s be"a$se in ,o$r head; ,o$-re r$nnin#

to%ards them and ima#inin# that the,-re r$nnin# to%ards ,o$ too; that the (ath to re"oer, %ill be short

be"a$se both o! ,o$ are r$nnin# to%ards ea"h other.

B$t reall,; the,-re $st standin# there "he">in# their (hone and %aitin# !or ,o$ to r$n a marathon oer to

them %hile the, "om(lain that ,o$-re al%a,s late; %h, does it ta>e ,o$ so lon# to #et there; ,o$ #et

eno$#h (ra"ti"e a!ter all...

1e QLambCho(-s "heatin# h$sband; $st b$sted a#ainR "an r$n the !$">in# marathon to Crone Island.

4o$ "an sit on the bea"h and read a boo> and drin> somethin# %ith an $mbrella in it and na(.

posted by dorot(yisunder-oodat %:1& PMon July 2" [!3 favorites]

5AGE2
http://www.metafilter.com/user/184386http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6141684http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6141684http://www.metafilter.com/user/133338http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6137163http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6137163http://www.metafilter.com/user/219383http://www.metafilter.com/user/219383http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6134077http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6134077http://www.metafilter.com/user/184386http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6141684http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6141684http://www.metafilter.com/user/133338http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor#6137163http://www.metafilter.com/favorited/2/6137163http://www.metafilter.com/user/219383http://www.metafilter.com/user/219383http://www.metafilter.com/user/219252http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On

emotional labor - the metafilter thread condensed

Documents