epics-2010 summary europe‘03 epics-2010 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ?

EPICS-2010 Summary Europe‘03

EPICS-2010?

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EPICS-2010

What will control systems

Look like in 2010?


Why should somebody want to know this?

Another crazy idea from Matthias?

He‘s not allone ...

... even worse!?


Why I think that it‘s important to think about EPICS 2010

• Two little stories– Once upon a time ...

– Once upon another time ...


The Synchronous-Put Proposal(How to get and set flavored CA data) ((Eric))

1st Step

Reactions:

1. Do you really need this?

2. This is easy – just take a set of records ...

3. We have solved this already. Our timing system ...

4. I would write a sequencer ...


The Synchronous-Put Proposal2nd Step

It seems that we really do not have a solution for this problem.

But

I need new functionality in IOC-core!

->This might break existing applications<---- yes you are right ---

I need add ons in channel access to solve the problem!

-> There‘s no funding for this <--- true --


The Synchronous-Put Proposal3rd Step

Is it not possible to get what has been implemented decades ago at LANCE, or SLAC, or Fermilab?

Currently not!

We have two problems:

1. Technical: There‘s currently no solution

2. We have no mechanism to handle such a problemand to find even a long term solution.


EPICS 2010

• We are currently strong to make incremental steps– EPICS has reached a mature state (this way)– Nobody wants to change this!

But• Let‘s start to think about the long term future of

EPICS• Not: What is currently necessary?• But:

– What is necessary on the long run?– How can we get prepared for future technical trends?


How?

• A meeting– Such a group must be small

– As many labs as possible should contribute

– Get external expertise

• Three meetings (2 days each)1. June 2003 (Europe)

2. October 2003(Asia) (Thursday/Friday before ICALEPCS)

3. Spring 2004 (USA)


Participants EPICS-2010 in Europe

EPICS-2010 Europe 16. / 17. June 2003 confirmed

CoreGroup

Bob Dalesio LANL Bob Dalesio <[email protected]> yesMarty Kraimer ANL Marty Kraimer <[email protected]> yesMatthias Clausen DESY Matthias Clausen <[email protected]> yesNoboru Yamamoto KEK Noboru Yamamoto <[email protected]> yesHamid Shoaee LANL Hamid Shoaee <[email protected]> yes

Consultants

Daniele Bulfone ELETTRA Daniele Bulfone <[email protected]> yesWayne Salter CERN 'Wayne Salter' <[email protected]> noMark Plesko COSYLAB Mark PLESKO <[email protected]> yesPhil Duval DESY Philip Duval <[email protected]> yesWilliam Lupton CANTAB William Lupton <[email protected]> yesAndy Goetz ESRF Andy Goetz <[email protected]> yesGregor Neu IPP/MPG Gregor Neu <[email protected]> yesHolger Brand GSI [email protected] nearly

EPICS Users

Steve Hunt PSI/ SLS Steve Hunt <[email protected]> yesMark Heron Diamond Mark Heron <"m.t.heron"@dl.ac.uk > yesDietmar Herrendörfer BESSY Dietmar Herrendörfer <[email protected]> yesNick Rees Joint Astronomy Centre Nick Rees <[email protected]> yesKaren White TJNAF Karen White <[email protected]> yesSteve Singleton Diamond support team


June 2003 (Europe)Agenda

Monday 16th

8:30 - 12:00 with half an hour break

12:00 - 13:30 lunch


17:00 - 18:00 wrap up of the first day

Tuesday 17th


12:00 - 13:30 lunch


16:00 - 18:00 wrap up of the two days (with half an hour break)


Agenda

Monday 16th;

8:30 - 12:00 1.2 Networks and Protocols; OO

12:00 - 13:30 lunch

13:30 - 14:00 7.0 lessons learned

14:00 – 15:00 1.3 IOC-Core

15:30 – 17:00 1.5 EPICS Database-Engines/ Device-Implementations

17:00 - 18:00 wrap up of the first day


Agenda

Tuesday 17th

8:30 – 10:00 Web Services; Redundancy; EPICS-Industrial

10:30 - 12:00 Plug and Play support for I/O;

12:00 - 13:30 lunch

13:30 - 16:00 Applications; Other Fields; Organization/Communication (GAN?)

16:30 - 17:30 wrap up of the two days


Charge of the group:

Form a visionary look of future control systems.

Specifically: What will EPICS 2010 look like?


How we are going to work?

• Any idea is a good idea

• No idea is questioned

• Questions are allowed to clarify the main aspects if a new idea

• Additional ideas to a given topic are welcome

• Short presentations 'one slide shows' are welcome

• Write down your ideas and throw them in at appropriate times


How did we work?


Preparing Presentations over lunch...


Examples of presentations andpoints which have been discussed

Phil Duval (DESY):

TINE: What’s Different …

Large data transfer: "they want it so give it to them"

- limited data size in transfer due only to available local memory

- beat this:

~4.5 MBytes/second to as many clients as you want!

~.5 Mbyte frames @ 10 Hz as TINE multicast

Data types:

- ~40 system data types (base types + names, doublets, triplets, quads, etc.)

- user-defined structures

- property overloading

e.g. can ask for "ORBIT" as float, FLTINT, FLTINTINT, etc.

can ask for piece of "ORBIT" or entire "ORBIT"

can specify starting BPM, etc.


Components(Andy Goetz)

Distributed Components

Object technology has proven its worth enough to stay (“everything will be an object in the future”)

Being an object is not enough, ever increasing network bandwidth encourages distributing objects

Distributed objects however are not enough for developing and managing complex distributed systems – a component model is needed to manage lifecycle, interfaces, framework, terminology etc. (“the best solution for the future is a component model which is vendor independent”)

Is CORBA a candidate ?

CORBA is a vendor, language and operating system independent definition for distributed objects, services, facilities and architecture

Wide(st) vendor base with input from academiaProposes OS-type services over the network e.g. realtime,

parallelism, fault toleranceCompeting technologies are EJB (+jini?) and .NETCORBA has been slow in coming but has deliveredToday CORBA is the best thought-out and most complete

proposal for a distributed component model (but this is no guarantee that it wins)

My wish for the future is CORBA or something like CORBA gets universally adopted (a la Posix) and we concentrate one implementing the content instead of the container !


Objects


Applications in Astronomy(Nick Rees)

Observation Queue

Telescope Control System

Instrument Control System

Data Handling

Observation Preparation

Observation Selection

Observation DatabaseMinimumSchedulable

Blocks (MSBs)

Observation Translation

System Configurations

Data Reduction

Observation Feedback

Time Allocation Committee

ScienceProgrammes

Observation Sequencer

Science Data Product

Astronomer

EPICS 2010 17 June 2003 7

Observation Selection


Lessons learned(Nick Rees)

EPICS 2010 16 June 2003 5

Why was EPICS successful?

Requirements were well understood Initial implementers had done similar systems before

Modular design Individual components could be upgraded incrementally

Individuals didn’t need to know all about everything

Limited scope Did not try and solve everything in one go.

Discovered there were other similar applications Astronomy was probably not on the agenda initially

People and the collaboration The social factors worked (and we need Bob’s bad jokes!)

EPICS 2010 16 June 2003 12

Beware

Solving problems we don’t understand well If we are going to solve the high level problems in a similar

way, the skill-set of the people participating must change.

We won’t solve them in a generic way the first time around.

Don’t confuse nice-to-haves with must-haves Confusing our desires as programmers with our scientific

requirements

It’s the design, stupid!!! Not the tools EPICS is technically successful because of a few key

features and its modularity, not because of VxWorks and C.


Lessons learned(Karen White)

Karen White June 16, 2003 Jefferson Lab

EPICS – 2010

• What do we spend a lot of time doing?• Think about how to collectively improve

efficiency• Things that are easy to develop initially can

take significant effort to maintain• We often duplicate effort at multiple sites –

Why? How can we minimize this in the future.


Automatic Code Generation(Phil Duval)

TINE Server WizardTINE Server Wizard TINE Server WizardTINE Server Wizard


EPICS Industrial(Matthias Clausen)

Redundancy

• Hot-Standby vs. Hot Swap

• Cryogenic 24/7 operations can survive with hot standby

• Redundant Networks??

Do we need it to the IOC?

• Redundant IOC problems:– Send ca-puts to both IOC‘s

– Keep databases in synch

– Keep sequence programs in synch

– Two IOC‘s Talking to one I/O

– ->Local Synch-Link

EPICS-Industrial

• Most SCADA functionality available• Database creation tool

– For databases– Configure alarms– Configure archiver

• Sequencer (S88 and IEC 61131-3)– Creation tool – Debugger– Single step/ step over ...

• Fieldbus Support


Intelligent I/O (FDT)(Matthias Clausen)


Application Framework(Mark Plesko)

EPICS Collaboration Meeting – Abingdon, UK. June 17, 2003

Application frameworks

• Common look&feel• Predictable behavior• Standard environment

– Text, log and error messages– Print, save, config,..

• J ava is powerful– XAL (SNS) – machine physics– Tom Pelaia (SNS) – menus, window

size/position, standard output, etc.– CosyFramework – application services

EP IC S Co llaboration M eeting – Abingdon, UK. June 17, 2003

W hy XML Database: Build Control SystemProgram Generators

M odel of the Control System (XM L)

CO RBA Server C++Templa te (XPG L)

G UI Plug Java Templa te(XPG L)

Configura tion DatabaseXSD Schema Templa te

(XSL)

P rogram G enerator (X P GL P rogGen, X S L/T T ransformer)

Configura tion DatabaseSchema (XSD)

CO RBA Server (C++)G UI Plug (Java)


Results:Interest groups

• (1) Application Services– Name-Service– Logging-Service– Archiving-Service– Alarm-Service– .....– Application Framework



• (2) EPICS-OO and Networking– How much OO does EPICS need?– Do we need a second network protocol?

• CORBA?

• DDS?

– If only one – which one?



• (3) Managing and Creation of Databases• (4) EQS (EPICS Quick Startup)• (5) News on the use of Ethernet and intelligent I/O

(collection wiki only)

Interest groups run dedicated wiki‘s(Public Web pages)

Most Interest Groups have members outside the EPICS collaboration.


Contacts

On the Web:

EPICS-2010.desy.de

Mailing List:

[email protected]

Wiki‘S:

TBA


Next Steps

• Interest Groups will collect information which can be presented during the next meeting.

• Results of the first two meetings will be presented during ICALEPCS

• All EPICS collaborating labs are encouraged to check the possible manpower/ financial support for EPICS-2010 developments.


Back to the Roots:EPICS 2003

Next meeting:

12th October 2003

In Korea(Sunday before ICALEPCS)


Finally

Thanks to:

Hamid for the nice speech yesterday

Bob for the background organization

Mark and his team for being an excellent host of this meeting!

epics-2010 summary europe‘03 epics-2010 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ?

Documents

usaparticipants epics

hour breakagendamonday

long term solution

long term future of

long run

future technical trends

days eachjune

existing applications