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JAZZ HISTORY
FEATURE Art Blakey, Part 7Art Blakey, Part 7
Interviews Pat MartinoPat Martino Jazz Standard, July 19Jazz Standard, July 19--2222
Famoudou Don MoyeFamoudou Don Moye
Comprehensive Comprehensive
DirectoryDirectory of NY ClubS, ConcertS of NY ClubS, ConcertS OdeanOdean
Eric Nemeyer’s
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CONTENTSCONTENTS
CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTSCLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS 13 Calendar of Events 18 Clubs & Venue Listings
4 Odean Pope by Ken Weiss
Jazz History FEATUREJazz History FEATURE 32 Art Blakey, Part 7 by John R. Barrett
INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS 20 Pat Martino 26 Famoudou Don Moye by Ken Weiss
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Fea
ture
Odean PopeOdean Pope Forerunner of the SpiritForerunner of the Spirit
Interview & Photos by Ken WeissInterview & Photos by Ken Weiss
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Interview and photo by Ken Weiss
Tenor saxophonist Odean Pope (b. October 24,
1938; Ninety-Six, South Carolina) is best known
for his greater than two decade membership in the
Max Roach Quartet, as well as for his unique voice
on his instrument. A master of circular breathing
and multiphonics, Pope’s trademark ‘foghorn’
blast reaches deep into the soul of the listener.
Heavily influenced by the sounds of the Southern
Baptist church choir of his youth, Pope moved with
his parents to Philadelphia at age ten where he
found an extremely jazz rich territory with future
jazz legends such as John Coltrane, Lee Morgan,
Benny Golson, Jymie Merritt, Jimmy Garrison,
Philly Joe Jones, the Heath Brothers, Archie
Shepp, McCoy Tyner and Bobby Timmons. He was
especially influenced by the obscure and eccentric
pianist Hasaan Ibn Ali, who also caught the atten-
tion of Max Roach. Pope was a member of the
Philadelphia group Catalyst in the early to mid-
‘70s, which merged jazz and funk and presaged the
work of later jazz fusion bands. He is an accom-
plished leader with a number of recordings by his
unique Saxophone Choir band, which features nine
saxophones and a rhythm section, as well as per-
forming in quartet and trio settings. A strong com-
poser, his songs have memorable melodies and are
augmented with his superior arranger skills. Pope
was the 2017 recipient of the Mid Atlantic Living
Legend Award. This interview took place on Janu-
ary 19, 2018 at his home in the Olney section of
Philadelphia.
Jazz Inside Magazine: Your first name is regular-
ly misspelled as Odeon in the press. It’s even print-
ed that way on the disc of your recording Ninety
Six [Enja, 1996].
Odean Pope: For the most part, that started in
Europe.
JI: I looked up odeon. Do you know what it
means? Ironically, odeon derives from ancient
Greek and stands for a building used for musical
performances. That’s so very apropos.
OP: I didn’t know that.
JI: Published reviews of your work over the past
15-years or so typically open with something to the
effect that you are, “One of the most underappreci-
ated jazz musicians of your generation.” How do
you explain that?
OP: I think mainly because all my peers - Lee
Morgan, the Heath brothers, Bobby Timmons, and
the list goes on, went to New York in the mid-‘50s.
I went to New York along with them but I decided
to come back to Philadelphia and I think that’s the
main reason I didn’t get the recognition I should
have gotten. The only person I know who got some
international recognition while living in Philadel-
phia was Grover Washington Jr..
JI: Why did you choose to remain in Philadelph-
ia?
OP: That’s a very detailed issue, nothing to do
with New York, but just the scene that was happen-
ing during that period so I decided to come back to
Philadelphia.
JI: How important is public recognition to you?
OP: I think my health is more important. I chose
my health over recognition because, as you know,
most of my peers have left the planet.
JI: When asked if you thought of yourself as a
hard bop or free jazz player in the past you an-
swered, “I like to think of myself as one of the
forerunners of ‘the spirit.’” Would you explain
that?
OP: To be one of the forerunners of ‘the spirit’
means to me that I’m always striving to be the
frontrunner of what’s happening today. Not the
past, but the present, as well as future. I feel that
I’ve studied so many different kinds of concepts
and I’ve had the opportunity to sit on bandstands,
be at recording studios, and to talk to so many great
musicians, that I have acquired quite a bit of
knowledge in terms of what direction I’m going to
go into. Being a forerunner means that you are one
of the ones who is reaching certain aspects of your
craft being number one.
JI: Finding your own unique voice on the saxo-
phone was a career quest for you and you certainly
accomplished that. How did you pursue that goal?
OP: It’s very strange because ironically, when I
was 25, I took all the records and recordings out of
my house. I just wanted to concentrate for the next
few years [on my sound]. I thought maybe it would
take one year but it ended up taking me at least 10
years to get a sense of what I wanted my sound to
be, as opposed to going the traditional way of
sounding like someone else. I was really determine
to reach my own voice.
JI: Many musicians use circular breathing and
multiphonics [playing several pitches at once] but
you arguably use these techniques more than any-
one else. Explain your interest in these techniques
and how you see them fitting into your music.
OP: The interesting thing about circular breathing
is it allows one to play long phrases and to generate
high intensity to create ideas and things that you
have acquired that takes an amount of articulation
and expression to play, and to play long phrases.
The way I use circular breathing is to play long
phrases as opposed to playing short phrases and it
allows me to play, maybe, two choruses without
taking a breath. I can play for half an hour without
taking a breath. The person who really taught me
circular breathing was a piano player by the name
of Eddie Green when we played together in the
group Catalyst. He used to play the melodica and
used circular breathing. All of the people I used to
ask before him would tell me all kinds of different
ways which were not right. I asked Rahsaan Ro-
land Kirk and we talked about circular breathing
but I never got the full understanding of it from
him. Fortunately, Eddie Green knew the process
and technique of circular breathing [and shared it
with me].
JI: So Rahsaan Roland Kirk didn’t want you to
know how to do it?
OP: Well, you said that.
JI: How about your use of multiphonics?
“… when Trane got the opportunity to go with Miles Davis, he asked me to replace him [in
Jimmy Smith’s group]. I told him, ‘You’ve got to be kidding me,’ because I was no way ready to play with Jimmy Smith. He said, ‘Look, don’t
never use the word can’t. Always say I can do it. Take that word can’t out of your vocabulary.’ I prac-ticed with him on Jimmy Smith’s repertoire and he gave me very good information on all the tunes.”
Odean Pope
Forerunner of the Spirit
INTERVIEWINTERVIEW
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OP: I find multiphonics interesting because it cre-
ates a lot of energy and intense moments where the
audience all of a sudden hears three or four tones
coming out of one horn that makes them sort of
jump and stand back. I work with the multiphonics
quite a bit, in fact I have a tune called
“Multiphonics.” It allows you to extend chord
changes or to create chord changes, and I got those
fingerings from playing oboe. Oboe has different
false fingerings and to be able to play multiphon-
ics, you have to be able to use all kind of different
fingerations in order to make three or four notes at
the same time.
JI: You’ve said in the past that when playing, you
create an image in your mind of walking into a
dark room with strings. Would you talk about that?
OP: I thought for many years about what concepts
and what ideas could I use to make my playing
more orchestral and flexible, more complex, more
creative. What could I base my concepts on when I
improvise and when I write? I was sitting up one
night and an idea came to me around two o’clock
in the morning – suppose you walk into a dark
room filled with strings and whatever string you
pull, you can write or play a concept with that
string and make it compatible with every other
string you pull. I think the important thing in crea-
tivity is to have a combination of concepts and
ideas going parallel as well as contrary to one an-
other, and to also make the parallel and contrary
concepts compatible, and these strings to me were
concepts. Every string in that room was a concept
for me to utilize and also to make something more
profound than I had before.
JI: You were born in a small South Carolina town
called Ninety Six that currently sports a population
around 2,000. How did Ninety Six get its name?
OP: Ninety Six is definitely on the map. A few
years ago, the mayor of the town put my name up
in a few places around town saying, “We are fortu-
nate to have a great artist from Ninety Six, South
Carolina.” As far as how it got its name, you’d
have to research that. [The town’s website reports
that, “Most likely, Ninety Six received its name
when Indian maiden Issaqueena (Cateechee), rode
her horse, ninety six miles from Keowee, the capi-
tal of the Cherokee nation to the outpost to warn of
impending war by the Indian natives.”]
JI: The Southern Baptist church figured promi-
nently in your early years and tailored the way you
eventually crafted your music. It’s well document-
ed that at age eight you listened to the church choir
and imagined what it would sound like to have
saxophones replace the singers. You didn’t start on
saxophone until age thirteen, so did you know at
eight that you would pursue saxophone and a saxo-
phone choir?
OP: The Saxophone Choir was inspired through
the Baptist church where it was mandatory that
every Sunday you go to church. My mother was a
schoolteacher and she played the piano in the big
mass choir, about 40 people in the choir. At a very
early age I was speaking and singing in the church.
I would speak on holidays and sing with the choir.
I used to play the Jew’s harp and the regular harp,
and at a very early age I was asking myself, ‘What
instruments could I use to depict the big, massive
choirs that I was exposed to?’ First I started on the
piano, and after a short while I said, ‘This is not the
instrument I want to play’ and I stared on the clari-
net, but it wasn’t for me. The Earle Theatre [in
Philadelphia] used to host groups by Duke Elling-
ton, Count Basie and Lionel Hampton, they would
come in and perform for 10 days in a row. When
Lionel Hampton came to town with Johnny Griffin
and Arnett Cobb in his orchestra they impressed
me so much in terms with what they were doing,
how they were playing, how they would walk
through the audience, and have people walking
behind them, loving what they were doing. I really
liked that so I asked my mother if she would buy
me a saxophone, which she did. After a short while
I got a teacher. I studied with some very great
teachers and I found out that saxophone was going
to be my voice.
JI: You moved to Philadelphia at age 10 and soon
found yourself surrounded by future jazz stars that
were your age and just a bit older. Would you talk
about your neighborhood and the Philadelphia
scene at that time?
OP: During that time it was Jimmy Garrison, he
was in the North Philly neighborhood as well, and
we used to play a lot together. I also played with
Spanky DeBrest. I used to play a lot with bass
players, I’d get them to come over to my mother’s
home and we would play. And from that experi-
ence I began to branch out and meet a lot of differ-
ent musicians. Benny Golson was living two blocks
away from me. When I was around fourteen I
formed a band with Rudy Richardson, bassist Tony
Williams and drummer Ralph Langley and we used
to practice all the time. As a matter of fact, we
played “How High the Moon” so much that one
advanced player by the name of Bobby Fontaine,
he was a great alto player who died at a very early
age and played like Charlie Parker, he came by and
said, “Look, if I come past tomorrow and you guys
are playing “How High the Moon,” I’m personally
gonna come in and kick all of your butts!” He said
to get something else to play so we started to check
out other compositions. Benny Golson would also
give me a lot of information on a lot of different
things. Finally, I met John Coltrane because he
lived not far from my parents’ house. He lived on
33rd Street and we lived on Colorado Street which
was between 17th and 18th. He used to frequently be
coming to see Benny Golson or other musicians in
that neighborhood like Sonny Fortune. We met
early on and when John was in town. We used to
go over to [pianist] Hasaan Ibn Ali’s house two or
three times a week to practice, which was like go-
ing to one of the highest universities in the whole
world because all of the information we were look-
ing for and trying to reach, Hasaan Ibn Ali had all
of the information. As a matter of fact, Hasaan
created the Triangle Major 7, which I think later on
Trane got credit for but that was Hassan’s creation.
JI: You also used to practice with Lee Morgan?
OP: Yes, we used to play duets all the time in my
basement. At one time, we had a group with Lee
Morgan, Kenny Rodgers on alto, myself, Tootie
Heath, Jimmy Garrison, and I think Colmore Dun-
can on piano, and later on we started rehearsing
with Hasaan Ibn Ali. North Philadelphia was a
place where all the great musicians were. Philly Joe
Jones, Benny Golson, John Coltrane, Hasaan Ibn
Ali, Bubba Ross, and the list goes on. Richard and
Bud Powell lived in Willow Grove and I used to
see them periodically. Eddie Green was taking
lessons from Bud Powell. During that time there
was just so many great musicians around, and they
were very willing to share their information with
the younger musicians. I was fortunate to be raised
at that time because I’ve learned a whole wealth of
detailed information about the instrument as well
as of improvisation and writing my own composi-
tions.
JI: Would share some memories from those early
days with the other young musicians that went on
to fame?
OP: Here’s one about Lee Morgan. Willis Toll had
a workshop every Monday night down around 22nd
(Continued on page 8)
Odean Pope
“[Hasaan] did make a recording under his own name in 1965 with me and [bassist] Art
Davis and [drummer] Khalil Madi but it was never released. Now there’s some talk about releasing
it … they say that tape was lost in a fire but recently somebody found the tape and it may
be released. I was contacted by Atlantic Records about that since I’m the only living
artist from the recording session. That was the only recording date that Hassan ever had …”
June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 8 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880
and Walnut and he would bring an out of town star
like Sonny Stitt or Gene Ammons and use the
rhythm section from Philadelphia with people like
Tootie Heath, Jimmy Garrison and Sam Dockery.
This particular night, Lee Morgan, I think he had
just turned 17, and we went down to the jam ses-
sion. Sonny Stitt was the guest artist for that partic-
ular night and Lee Morgan, who had brought his
horn, asked Sonny Stitt if it was possible for him to
play something and he said, “Yes, come on up. So
what do you want to play,” and before Lee Morgan
could say anything, Stitt said, “Let’s play
“Cherokee.” I’ll play the melody and you play the
first solo,” not knowing that he was going to play,
instead of playing the melody in B Flat Concert,
which is the standard, he played it a half step
above, which is B Concert. So Stitt played the mel-
ody for “Cherokee” in B Concert and when it came
to the solo, Lee Morgan was unaware that it was in
the key of B and he started sputtering, sputtering,
and finally he just put his horn down. That was a
very embarrassing moment for Lee and when that
happened, we all started playing “Cherokee” start-
ing in B Flat and going through all the keys. So that
was our study for the next couple years. Sonny Stitt
sent us to school to be able to play a combination
of different keys.
JI: Pianist Hasaan Ibn Ali had the most significant
early influence on you around 1960-65.
OP: One day when I was around 13, I was in my
parent’s basement practicing and somebody
knocked on the window and I opened it and he
said, “My name is Hasaan Ibn Ali. What are the
possibilities of you coming around to practice with
me? Can we get together?” I had not heard of him
but I said, ‘Of course, I like to practice.’ So when I
first went over to his place, I was so greatly influ-
enced by what he was doing and how he was doing
it. I mean he took me by surprise. I just worried
him to death. I was there every day. He never had a
day job. He would get up in the morning and start
playing at 9 o’clock. His father would bring some
breakfast to the piano, so between 9 and 9:30 he
would eat something, and then he would play from
9:30 to 12. His father would then bring him a little
lunch, maybe some fruit to the piano, and he would
eat. After that, we’d play a couple games of chess
and then we would practice up until 4-5 o’clock.
I’d be at his house at a quarter to 9 every morning
and we would practice. I’d bring fruit for lunch.
His mother was a domestic worker. She would
bring him a couple packs of cigarettes - Viceroys
was the main brand during that period. She would
give him a couple dollars and then he’d get dressed
- he always spent the day playing in his bathrobe.
We both would get dressed and go out to 2 or 3
houses in the community. There were people with
pianos in their house who would let us play and
give us a couple dollars and some hot tea. So this
was like our school. We did this for maybe four to
five years and then Trane started to come in and we
started to do it with Trane but he would never go to
the houses with us. He would just practice during
the day because he would have other activities
during the night that he would do. This was a real
learning process for me. To not only be able to
learn a lot of tunes, because he’d play a lot of
standard compositions and add his own chord
structures, and he would pass them on down to me.
Most people didn’t feel comfortable playing with
Hassan. There was a place called the Woodbine
Club where all the musicians in that period would
meet at every Saturday after all the clubs let out at
2:00 AM. They’d all meet there and have a jam
session. When Hassan would get up on the piano,
all the horn players would get off the stand. But I
was determined that I was going to play with him
and that’s why I practiced with him every day so
that I could hear his harmonic, rhythmic and me-
lodic structures. Hassan was one of the greatest.
I’ve never heard a piano player play like Hassan.
He was greatly influenced by Monk, Elmo Hope
and Bud Powell, but he had his own identity. I
think he had more technique, more flexibility, and
his ideas was just like the sea. He had ideas as deep
as the sea. I mean I never heard anybody, even
today, play like that.
JI: The only way people might know of Hasaan
Ibn Ali is by way of the Max Roach recording The
Max Roach Trio Featuring the Legendary Hasaan
[Atlantic, 1965]. Why didn’t he record under his
own name?
OP: He did make a recording under his own name
in 1965 with me and [bassist] Art Davis and
[drummer] Khalil Madi but it was never released.
Now there’s some talk about releasing it. Rahsaan
Roland Kirk was trying to get it released but he
passed before it happened. They say that tape was
lost in a fire but recently somebody found the tape
and it may be released. I was contacted by Atlantic
Records about that since I’m the only living artist
from the recording session. That was the only re-
cording date that Hassan ever had and the reason
he didn’t get the recognition was because he stayed
in Philadelphia. He never went to New York. He
was content to stay at his parents’ home and prac-
tice every day. Nobody ever gave him gigs except
for me when I would get a gig.
JI: So the question remains, what happened to
him? He had the backing of a star in Max Roach
and had been featured on a major label recording
that presented his original compositions.
OP: I think what happened shortly after he did the
recording as a leader was that he got incarcerated.
He called me up and said, “Odean, I’m not gonna
be able to go to the mix session. I’d like you to go
mix the LP.” I told him I would and before the mix
date came, he made a telephone call to New York
and asked Atlantic Records if they would extend a
loan to him. He needed additional money. When
they found out that he was incarcerated they just
put the LP on the shelf and it never got released. I
think that and the influence by other activities other
than the music is what really destroyed his whole
career. He ended up dying young. I think he was
49.
JI: He got out of prison?
OP: Yes, but his mother and father got burnt up on
my birthday at their home on 2406 North Gratz
Street on October 24, 1980. He went to one of the
recreation centers for the homeless and when he
died, they only found my telephone number on his
body. They called me and said I was his only con-
tact and asked if I could make the final arrange-
ments for him. So I called [a super fan of Hasaan’s]
in Boston and he gave me a thousand dollars to
make the last rites for him and that was the end of
that.
JI: Hasaan sounds very much like Thelonious
Monk on the Roach recording.
OP: Right, but there was a difference if you listen
to it carefully. The technique is different. Hasaan
had flawless technique. Monk had technique too
(Continued from page 7)
(Continued on page 10)
So Stitt played the melody for “Cherokee” in B Concert and when it came to the solo, Lee Morgan was unaware that it was in the key of B and he started sputtering, sputtering, and finally he just put his horn down. That was a
very embarrassing moment for Lee and when that happened, we all started playing
“Cherokee” starting in B Flat and going through all the keys. So that was our study for the next couple years. Sonny Stitt sent us to school to
be able to play a combination of different keys.”
Odean Pope
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June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 10 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880
but he didn’t have the kind of technique like
Hasaan. Hasaan could play extremely fast, very
complex things, and he had his own identity.
JI: Apparently, Hasaan had a tainted reputation
around town and was known to push other pianists
from the piano bench so that he could play.
OP: Of course, he was doing that all the time. I
witnessed it so many times where we would go to
places and he would just walk up on the bandstand
and push the piano player off and start playing.
And see, they respected him so much they didn’t
resist, they would just get up and play. He was
known for that.
JI: Is it true that when Hasaan saw that you were
also studying oboe he suggested you use some of
the oboe fingerings on tenor which, as you men-
tioned earlier, helped you with difficult overtones
and multiphonics?
OP: Yes, he asked me when I was doing the oboe,
what fingerings were different on the oboe from the
saxophone. I told him about the false fingerings
and he said, “Why don’t you apply some of those
fingerings to the tenor saxophone.” So that’s when
I started getting different sounds on the saxophone,
like two or three notes at a time and the “foghorn,”
that’s what I was really known for, the “foghorn.”
He greatly influenced me about doing many things
on the saxophone, things that I’m still doing today.
JI: Are those oboe false fingerings that you do a
rare technique for saxophone or do others use
them?
OP: I’m not saying that I was the only one using
them at the time, but I used them from the oboe and
then I started using other ones. In fact, there’s a
book by Larry Teal on saxophone methods that
teaches different fingerings above the altissimo
range. But I was studying these things on my own.
I was so impressed on what the false oboe finger-
ings would do on saxophone that I started experi-
menting and found many, many different finger-
ings. Some other saxophone players are doing
them. James Carter is one of the few doing some of
those things. He told me he knew about me when
the first Saxophone Choir album [The Saxophone
Shop, 1985, Soul Note] came out, which he used to
listen to.
JI: What was your early relationship with John
Coltrane?
OP: I met him when I was around twelve. I used to
go over to his house and we would practice and he
would give me different ideas. We would practice
scales. He was a person who would do scales for
maybe two hours before he did anything else.
Nothing but scales, and he still was doing that up
until his last days here on the planet. That influ-
enced me and I still do regular scales because when
you practice them, it gives you a greater sense of
what the pitch might be and how closely you are
playing perfectly in tune because the saxophone is
a very difficult instrument to play in tune all over
the instrument. By practice, you gain a sensation in
your fingers and you can get the saxophone to
sound very round with all of the details. This morn-
ing I played scales for about 90 minutes and I’ll
play more later. Scales are mandatory for me.
JI: How did you come to replace Coltrane in the
Jimmy Smith band around 1955?
OP: I spent a lot of time with Trane, practicing
with Hasaan Ibn Ali. The gig he got with Jimmy
Smith wasn’t a permanent gig, Jimmy just called
Trane to fill up a few tour gigs that he had. So
when Trane got the opportunity to go with Miles
Davis, he asked me to replace him. I told him,
‘You’ve got to be kidding me,’ because I was no
way ready to play with Jimmy Smith. He said,
“Look, don’t never use the word can’t. Always say
I can do it. Take that word can’t out of your vocab-
ulary.’ I practiced with him on Jimmy Smith’s
repertoire and he gave me very good information
on all the tunes. Jimmy had about 15 tunes that he
would play over the course of a night and most of
the tunes I was able to memorize. I played with
Jimmy for close to two months and that was very
unique and very educational, not only musically.
Jimmy was highly educated in terms of what he
wanted to do and how he wanted to do it. He was a
genius, I’ve never heard anybody play the organ
like him. He was so fluent and original. He was one
of the first organists that was swinging. Playing
with him for two months gave me a big umbrella to
work under and I’m still working under some of
those things right now.
JI: What was your experience with Jimmy Smith at
that young age? He was known to be demanding.
OP: I knew Jimmy Smith before I worked with
him. He worked in town with Don Gardner. I knew
him before he played the organ. He was playing a
thing called the organum, which was something
that you would put on the piano and it would get an
organ sound. He was nice to me because I was very
young and he saw that I was really trying to do
something different as well as trying to play his
music.
JI: Bassist Jymie Merritt picked you as an original
member of his ensemble The Forerunners in 1962.
Would you talk about the intensity of that music?
OP: Even today, every time I play that music it’s
like I’m playing it for the first time. The notations,
the rhythmic structure, the melodic structure, and
the harmonic structure [are unique] and all the
musicians are playing a different part and each one
has to figure out how to fit their sound into what
the others are doing. His music was so different,
and it still is today. It’s different from anyone
else’s music, it’s very challenging. In fact, [at some
point] most of the musicians, except for me and
Jymie Merritt, had nervous breakdowns because of
the music. One night, I remember, the wife of one
of the musicians called me up and said, “Odean,
what y’all been doing tonight because [my hus-
band] has been sitting up all night, talking to him-
self?” I told her we had been working on some
concepts of the music. I think the music was so
demanding, and it required so much discipline and
hard work and so much preparation, it put out a lot
of stress and if you weren’t really flexible, it could
really take you to another place.
JI: You had the opportunity to join Art Blakey and
the Jazz Messengers?
OP: Art Blakey, shortly after I went with Max,
asked me to come with his group but I told him I
was working with Max and didn’t want to split.
JI: There’s a good story about the first opportunity
you got to play on stage with Max Roach.
OP: [Laughs] That happened at Pep’s in Philadel-
phia around 1966. Hasaan Ibn Ali and Max Roach
were very close. Hasaan used to go up to Max’s
house and play and Max would record each ses-
sion. Hasaan sometimes would show up at unusual
times. It could be two o’clock in the morning and
he’d want to play the piano, and regardless of what
time he showed up, Max would open the door for
him and tape record it. On this particular day,
Hasaan came to me and said, “I’m giving you a
little head’s up. Max is in town next week so why
don’t you practice a little bit more and I think you
and I go down and we sit in with Max.” I said, ‘Are
you sure about that?’ He said, “Odean you’re ready
to do that.’ So I practiced and practiced and, I’ll
never forget this, it was a beautiful Saturday day
and Pep’s was packed. What happened was that at
the second tune of the first set, Hasaan asked Max
if we could play something, which he agreed to.
Now Hasaan, of course, could play any tempo in-
cluding the most ridiculous, fast tempo you could
do, which is what Max did. Max said, “We’re go-
ing to play “Cherokee” and they started playing
really fast. Kenny Dorham looked over to me and
said, “Do you know what we’re playing?” I said,
‘Is it “Cherokee,” and he said, “You got it. Look,
this is the introduction, I’m going to give you the
cue when we are supposed to come in.” We played
the melody and Kenny said, “I’ll let you take the
first solo,” but by time it came my turn to solo, it
was so fast that I sputtered and sputtered. I was just
reduced so I finally stopped playing. The music
was just so intense that it made me tighten up. I had
played that song many times but never at that tem-
po. When I got off the stage I was so embarrassed.
All my friends were there. It gave me great incen-
tive. I came home and I studied and practiced,
practiced, practiced. I had been playing “Cherokee”
but not at that tempo. I practiced with Hasaan and
the next time I played for Max, I was able to play
that tempo.
JI: You’re best known for your greater than twenty
years spent as a member of Max Roach’s quartet
but you actually worked with him for about a short
period much prior to that in 1967.
OP: Jymie Merritt was working with Max at the
time and he recommended me when Max was
searching for a tenor player for his quartet. So I
went to New York and Max said I had two weeks
to learn twelve compositions and that he didn’t
want any music on the bandstand. I commuted to
New York every day rather than stay there. For two
weeks he picked me up at the train station and then
took me back to the station. He had a unique sys-
tem of training the band that I still use at times
today. He said to play four measures of the music,
repeat it four or five times, and then turn over the
(Continued from page 8)
Odean Pope
June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 11 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880
music and play it by memory. That worked very
well.
JI: Your first stint with Roach only lasted about a
year. Why so short?
OP: Right, I played with him at first about one
year and then I went back home to study, study,
study. I wasn’t really ready to play with him at that
time and I told him that. I needed more technique
and ideas. When I got back home from ’68 until
1979, I didn’t take hardly any jobs, I just stayed in
the basement and practiced. Max called me again
in 1979 and asked me to join his new group with
Charles Tolliver, Jymie Merritt and Stanley Cow-
ell. So I went to his house and studied the composi-
tions and this time I was more prepared. He tried
out a number of saxophonists and I was the one he
picked. I worked with him from 1979 until 2002,
the last 22 years of his career.
JI: Is it true you almost declined the opportunity to
join Roach’s band for the second time in ’79?
OP: Yes, I almost declined. I was still rehearsing
with the Forerunners at the time and Jymie Merritt,
who’s a very inspirational person, told me around
1978 that he was thinking of leaving Art Blakey to
go back with Max Roach who was forming another
group. He told me I was ready for Max and he
would mention my name to him. In fact, he said
that Max had asked how I was doing. Max liked
me in 1967 because I was trying to play something
different from everyone else and that’s what he told
people when they asked why he was keeping me.
He heard something different in my playing.
JI: Talk about Max Roach as a leader and his ex-
pectations of you.
OP: During my early experience with him, I had
just learned to circular breathe but I would just
hold the note, I wouldn’t move it. We were at Ron-
nie Scott’s [Jazz Club in London] and this night the
place was packed as always when Max played and
I was playing and I just held one note for about
four minutes. Max stopped the band and said over
the mic, “Odean, if you cannot move that circular
breathing, don’t play one note no more!” So from
that experience he taught me to start searching how
to circular breathe and to move it around. I worked
on that for the next few months and then all of a
sudden it was all there. That was a very embarrass-
ing moment for me.
JI: Would you share some Max Roach memories?
OP: He was a very unique person. He was the kind
of guy that was really hard on bass players, not so
much Jymie Merritt, but others. When I first played
with him he had Calvin Hill on bass and he used to
pick on Calvin all the time. I remember one funny
thing. We were sitting down for dinner once and he
said, “Calvin get up from the table because you
don’t have any table manners. You’ve got your
napkin on the back of your chair!” Cecil Bridge-
water said, “Max, you’ve got your napkin on the
back of your chair!” So he was really steamed. If
Max would get a little angry with you for some
reason he wouldn’t let you solo. We were in East
Berlin one night and he told [bassist] Tyrone
[Brown] to just play the harmonic concept – which
means ‘don’t worry about it because I’m not gonna
let you solo.’ The only people that he never messed
with a whole lot was Cecil Bridgewater and my-
self. I remember him and Stanley Cowell getting
into a big fight at Ronnie Scott’s. We played Stock-
holm and it was so beautiful with a big crowd.
After the gig was over, Max was overwhelmed by
the reception from the audience and he sat down at
the piano, singing “Nobody Knows the Trouble
I’ve Seen” and Jymie Merritt said, “We should
leave because when he starts singing that song
something is getting ready to happen.” So Charles
Tolliver, Jymie Merritt, Stanley Cowell and myself
left and went back to the hotel. We were playing
chess and talking until suddenly we heard all this
rumbling downstairs in the lobby of this beautiful
hotel. Max had broken all the windows around the
hotel, which was now completely a wreck, and then
he went to the river and threw all his money in the
river. We went on to Ronnie Scott’s but Max was
locked up so Kenny Clarke and Jimmy Heath went
and got him out of jail, brought him to the hotel in
London, and all night Kenny and Jimmy were
praying with him to try to get him together. The
next day he had scheduled a rehearsal but Stanley
Cowell had not heard about it so he never showed
up. That night when Stanley came into the club,
Max grabbed Stanley by the neck and they fell on
the floor. Stanley didn’t want to hurt him, he could
have if he wanted to but he had so much respect for
Max that he didn’t. Meanwhile, Max was reaching
for my horn to hit Stanley with it but I grabbed his
hand off of it. He then grabbed a quart sized beer
bottle, broke it, and jabbed it into Stanley’s leg and
Stanley’s leg was quite messed up for a while.
Those are a few things of what he would do. He
was a real character in addition to being the great
drummer of any generation. He had some other
things going on with him that were unacceptable. I
don’t know if he was bipolar but he did some really
unusual things at times. If he was around a group
of people that really [celebrated him with great
applause] that would really take him to some other
place. I think he would get so emotional and so
caught up with that. One time he wore one outfit
for two weeks, traveling and performing in Europe.
He was also one of the greatest people and most
giving people that I’ve come into contact with.
When I was sick in Europe and stayed in a hospital
there for seven weeks, he gave my wife a thousand
dollars every week that I was gone, and anytime I
needed anything he was there for me. He was one
of the greatest leaders. He always influenced me to
continue on the path that I’m traveling.
JI: There was a period where you traveled with
both Roach and Dizzy Gillespie on the road.
OP: There’s a park in London that the queen
named in tribute to Max called the Max Roach
Park and she set up an extensive tour for the Max
Roach Quartet featuring Dizzy Gillespie. We trav-
eled in a van that had everything including a refrig-
erator, library books, everything you could need
was right there. And traveling with Max and Dizzy
for about two months in Europe, if you can imagine
traveling with two of the greatest forerunners of
this and any era, traveling with them, listening to
their stories, paying attention to what they’re do-
ing, how they are doing it, how they are approach-
ing you about how to play certain things. Dizzy
used to always tell me different things - how to
phrase this, how to do this, how to play “Night in
Tunisia” a certain way. It was just so much infor-
mation that after that tour I had so much infor-
mation to work with, and I’m still working with it.
It’s a continuum, it never stops. I’m constantly
trying to make that next step and I learned that
from Max and Dizzy. It was interesting to see the
two of them interact on that tour. We were playing
once and Dizzy said, “Max, you’re playing too
loud,” and Max would run it down a little bit. Diz-
zy again said, “Max, I told you you’re playing too
loud!” I’m saying this to say that Dizzy was the
only person, other than Kenny Clarke, who could
talk to Max in a way like that and not have him fly
off and start cussing and carrying on. The only two
people who I knew who could really hound Max
was Dizzy and Kenny Clarke. And during that tour,
it was Max’s quartet but Dizzy had more to say
about what was going on than Max. Max and Dizzy
had a good relationship and could talk to one an-
other.
JI: What was your Abbey Lincoln experience?
OP: Abbey Lincoln was a gem. She was one of the
greatest ladies to travel with, she was very giving
and never separated herself from the sidemen like
most artists do when they get to a certain level. She
was always talking to us about issues and was very
knowledgeable about the political arena.
JI: During your time with Roach, you also studied
at the Paris Conservatory for Music under drummer
Kenny Clarke. How did you fit that into your
schedule and why take lessons from another drum-
mer while learning under Max Roach?
OP: Kenny Clarke, in a sense, was the first drum-
mer to play the foot pedal and I think Max took
that concept from Kenny and added onto what he
was doing. Kenny was the first to play independent
with the left foot and also play the bass drum with
his right and have four things going on at once,
which was very different during that time. As well
as the bebop concepts and rhythmic concepts, he
was teaching that in Paris so every opportunity that
I would get, I would take lessons from him. He
gave me some valuable information that I’m still
using today. He was a very giving man, very sin-
cere. I used to go to Paris [with Max] maybe four
times a year and sometimes when we were off I
would fly over to Paris for a week to study and go
to the Selmer Company to get horns that they
would give me. In fact, anytime that I’m in Paris I
can still go by the factory and get brand new instru-
ments.
JI: There were periods during your extensive time
with Roach when he wasn’t working that much
which made life a struggle for you. What did you
do to earn money and how close were you to pursu-
ing a different career?
(Continued on page 22)
(Continued from page 10)
Odean Pope
June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 12 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Visit JohnALewisJazz.com
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Sunday, June 17
Victor Goines Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Terence Blanchard Featuring The E-Collective; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Manhattan Bridges Orchestra featuring Memo & Jacquelene Acevedo; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Joe Lovano & Dave Douglas With Lawrence Fields, Piano, Linda May Han Oh, Bass, Joey Baron, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Ehud Asherie Trio; Richie Vitale Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Monday, June 18
Monday Nights With WBGO, Uptown Tentet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Vanguard Big Band; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Lucas Pino Nonet; Joe Farnsworth Group; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Paquito D'Rivera; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Tuesday, June 19
Jazztopad Festival Presents: Maciej Obara Quartet Presented In Partnership With The Polish Cultural Institute Of New York; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Django Bates Trio With Peter Eloh, Peter Bruun; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Freddie Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Robert Edwards Group; Frank Lacy Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Wednesday, June 20 Shamie Royston Trio With Special Guests Jaleel Shaw And Lee Hogans Album Release Party; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy Django Bates Trio With Peter Eloh, Peter Bruun; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. Freddie Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St. David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S. Nick Finzer Sextet; Harold Mabern Trio; Aaron Seeber "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St. Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thursday, June 21 Ann Hampton Callaway; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th
& Bdwy
Vinicius Centuaria With Helio Alves, Paul Sokolow, Adrianno; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Freddie Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Frank Perowsky Quartet; Bruce Williams Quartet; Asaf Yuria "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Friday, June 22 Ann Hampton Callaway; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th
& Bdwy
Vinicius Centuaria With Helio Alves, Paul Sokolow, Adrianno; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Birdland Big Band; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
John Bailey Quintet; Ken Fowser Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Saturday, June 23 Ann Hampton Callaway; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th
& Bdwy
Vinicius Centuaria With Helio Alves, Paul Sokolow, Adrianno; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Freddie Cole Quartet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Smalls Showcase: Jade Synstelien Trio; John Bailey Quintet; Ken Fowser Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Victor Wooten With Dennis Chambers, Bob Franceschini; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Sunday, June 24 Ann Hampton Callaway; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th
& Bdwy
Vinicius Centuaria With Helio Alves, Paul Sokolow, Adrianno; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Benny Bennack III ft. the DW Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
David Murray & Class Struggle With Craig Harris, Trombone, Mingus Murray, Guitar, Lafayette Gilchrist, Piano, Rashaan Carter, Bass, Russell Carter, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Monty Alexander; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Monday, June 25 Band Director Academy Faculty Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln
Center, 60th & Bdwy
Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Vanguard Big Band; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Ari Hoenig Trio; Jonathan Michel Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Monty Alexander; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Tuesday, June 26 Christian Sands Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &
Bdwy
Janis Siegel; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Steve Nelson Quartet; Frank Lacy Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Monty Alexander; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Wednesday, June 27 Christian Sands Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &
Bdwy (Continued on page 14)
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Duchess; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Emanuele Cisi Quartet; George Papageorge Group; Mike Troy - "After-hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Lettuce; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thursday, June 28 Adrian Cunningham Quintet With Special Guest Vocalist Brianna
Thomas From My Fair Lady To Camelot; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Grant Green Evolution Of Funk With Grant Green Jr., Donald Harri-son, Marc Cary, Khari Simmons, Mike Clark; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Darrell Green Quartet; Keith Brown Group; Jonathan Thomas -"After-hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Lettuce; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Friday, June 29 Adrian Cunningham Quintet With Special Guest Vocalist Brianna
Thomas From My Fair Lady To Camelot; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Grant Green Evolution Of Funk With Grant Green Jr., Donald Harri-son, Marc Cary, Khari Simmons, Mike Clark; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard
178 7th Ave S.
Andy Fusco Quintet; Dmitry Baevsky Quartet; JD Allen "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Lettuce; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Saturday, June 30 Adrian Cunningham Quintet With Special Guest Vocalist Brianna
Thomas From My Fair Lady To Camelot; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Grant Green Evolution Of Funk With Grant Green Jr., Donald Harri-son, Marc Cary, Khari Simmons, Mike Clark; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Ravi Coltrane; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Tom Harrell With Mark Turner, Tenor Sax, Charles Altura, Guitar, Ugonna Okegwo, Bass, Johnathan Blake, Drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Sunday, July 1 Jeff "Tain" Watts Travel Band CD Release; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At
Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
The Smokestack Brunch: Adi Meyerson; Grant Green: Evolution of Funk; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Larry Fuller; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Chris Byars Sextet; David Gibson Quintet; Jon Beshay "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Monday, July 2 Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
John Colianni; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Anthony Pinciotti Quartet; Joe Farnsworth Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Tuesday, July 3 Steven Kroon Septet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Spike Wilner Quartet; Josh Evans Quintet; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Wednesday, July 4 George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Randy Johnston Trio; Isaiah J. Thompson "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Thursday, July 5 George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Emmett Cohen; Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Richie Goods Group; Randy Johnston Trio; Charles Goold "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Friday, July 6 George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Joey "G-Clef" Cavaseno Quartet; Amanda Sedgwick Quintet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Saturday, July 7 George Coleman Quintet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Veronica Swift; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Smalls Showcase: Julieta Eugenio; Eliot Zigmund Quartet; The Amanda Sedgwick Quintet; Brooklyn Circle; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Sunday, July 8 The Smokestack Brunch: Alex Goodman; George Coleman Quintet;
Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Lee Ritenour; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Barry Harris, piano; Ray Drummond, bass; Leroy Williams (drums;
(Continued on page 16)
15 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
16 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Nick Hempton Band; JC Stylles/Steve Nelson - Hutcherson Band; Hillel Salem "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Monday, July 9 Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Wallace Roney Quintet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Ari Hoenig Trio; Jonathan Michel Quintet; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Tuesday, July 10 Michael Pignéguy & The Awakenings Ensemble featuring Dominick
Farinacci; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Matt Penman Group; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
MonoNeon & Friends; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Charles Blenzig Group; Frank Lacy Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Wednesday, July 11 Claudia Acuña: A Tribute to Abbey Lincoln; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At
Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
MonoNeon & Friends; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Avi Rothbard Quartet; Neal Caine Quintet; Jovan Alexandre "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Thursday, July 12 Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Cassandra Wilson
Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Itamar Borochov Quartet; Tal Ronen Quartet; Davis Whitfield "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Friday, July 13 Roni Ben-Hur Quartet with special guest Joyce Moreno; Dizzy’s Club,
Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio with special guest Alicia Olatuja; Jazz Stand-ard, 116 E. 27th St.
Cassandra Wilson; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Tom Guarna Aggregate; Duane Eubanks Quintet; JD Allen "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Saturday, July 14 Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio with special guest Alicia Olatuja; Jazz Stand-
ard, 116 E. 27th St.
Cassandra Wilson; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Smalls Showcase: Nicole Glover Trio; Dave Stryker Quartet; Duane Eubanks Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Sunday, July 15 The Smokestack Brunch: Jared Gold; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Dr. Lonnie Smith Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Cassandra Wilson; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Russell Malone, guitar; Rick Germanson, piano; Luke Selleck, bass; Willie Jones III, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Django Reinhardt NY Festival: Django Festival Allstars + Special Guests; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Ralph Lalama & "Bop-Juice"; Josh Bruneau Group; Jon Beshay "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Monday, July 16 Jon Gordon Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &
Bdwy
Mingus Orchestra; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Wallace Roney Quintet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Clifford Barbaro Group; John Chin Quintet; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Tuesday, July 17 Tribute to Jimmie Blanton; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center,
60th & Bdwy
Michael Leonhart Orchestra featuring Nels Cline; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass; Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Tommy Campbell & Vocal-Eyes; Robert Edwards Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Wednesday, July 18 Shenel Johns and Vuyo Sotashe: In Honor of Nina Simone; Dizzy’s
Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Michael Leonhart Orchestra featuring Nels Cline; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass; Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Mike Moreno Quartet; Harold Mabern Trio; Aaron Seeber "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Thursday, July 19 Freddy Cole Quartet Pays Tribute to Nat King Cole; Dizzy’s Club,
Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Pat Martino Trio plus horns; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass; Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Mike Moreno Quartet; Carlos Abadie Quintet; Giveton Gelin "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Friday, July 20 Jon Faddis Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &
Bdwy
Pat Martino Trio plus horns; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass; Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Itai Kriss & TELAVANA; Immanuel Wilkins Quartet; Corey Wallace DUBtet "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Saturday, July 21 Pat Martino Trio plus horns; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass; Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Tommy Igoe Sextet; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Valery Ponomarev Quintet; Immanuel Wilkins Quartet; Brooklyn Circle; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Sunday, July 22 The Smokestack Brunch: Jon Thomas Organ Quartet
Pat Martino Trio plus horns; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Earl Klugh; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Sarah Elizabeth Charles; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Thumbscrew - Mary Halvorson, guitar; Michael Formanek, bass; Tomas Fujiwara, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Grant Stewart Quartet; Bruce Harris Quintet; Hillel Salem "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
(Continued on page 17)
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17 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
Monday, July 23 The Descendants: An African Sextet in New York; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz
At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Kennci 4; Joe Farnsworth Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Tuesday, July 24 Stanley Cowell Quintet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th
& Bdwy
Bill O'Connell Jazz Latin Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Steve Nelson Quartet; Frank Lacy Group; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Wednesday, July 25 Posi-Tone's New Faces; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Andrew Gould Quartet; Willerm Delisfort Project; Mike Troy - "After-hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Thursday, July 26 Catherine Russel; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &
Bdwy
Regina Carter Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Scott Wendholt/Adam Kolker Quartet; Tim Hegarty Band; Jonathan Thomas -"After-hours" Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Friday, July 27 Regina Carter Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Steve Williams Quartet; Joe Dyson Quintet; JD Allen "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Saturday, July 28 Regina Carter Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Birdland Big Band; Marilyn Maye with Tedd Firth Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Smalls Showcase: Ben Barnett Quartet; Tim Hagans Quintet; Joe Dyson Quintet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Sunday, July 29 Smokestack Brunch: The Adam Larson Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E.
27th St.
Regina Carter Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Star Experience; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Fred Hersch, piano; John Hébert, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Sacha Perry Trio; Alex Hoffman Quintet; Jerry Weldon Quartet; Jon Beshay "After-hours"; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Monday, July 30 Monday Nights with WBGO: Lakecia Benjamin Quartet Plays Col-
trane; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Mingus Big Band; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
McCoy Tyner; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.
Jonathan Barber Quintet; Joel Frahm Trio; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
Tuesday, July 31 Gabe Schnider Presents Hapa: Love Stories; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At
Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy
Harold Lopez-Nussa Trio; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.
McCoy Tyner; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.
Gerald Clayton, piano; Logan Richardson, alto sax; Walter Smith
John Pizzarelli with Jessica Molaskey; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.
Ian Hendrickson-Smith Quartet; Abraham Burton Quartet; After-hours Jam Session; Small’s, 183 W. 10th St.
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18 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com
55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com
92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128,
212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org
Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650-
6900, aarondavishall.org
Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875-
5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp
Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and
60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org
American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park
W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org
Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088.
www.antibesbistro.com
Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759,
arthurstavernnyc.com
Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378-
2133, artsmaplewood.org
Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St.,
212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org
BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org
Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com
Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339.
222.barlunatico.com
Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn,
718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com
Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083,
bargemusic.org
B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144,
bbkingblues.com
Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070
Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645.
www.becobar.com
Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights
Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600
Birdland, 315 W. 44th St., 212-581-3080
Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com
Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036,
212-245-2030, [email protected]
Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505,
bowerypoetry.com
BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600,
http://bricartsmedia.org
Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn,
NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org
Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com
Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and
Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746
Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com
Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2nd Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam-
bulo.com
Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com
Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612.
Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org
Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan-
drasjazz.com
Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave.,
Asbury Park, 732-774-5299
City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608-
0555. citywinery.com
Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769-
6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com
Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com
C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn.
www.cmoneverybody.com
Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356
Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319
Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey
07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org
Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027,
908-232-5666
Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900
Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595,
jalc.com
DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com
The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com
East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662.
www.evsnyc.com
Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358-
0774.
El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831-
7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org
Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com
The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970,
Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com
Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc
Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot-
soulfood.com
Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718-
463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org
For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427
Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago-
sartspace.com
Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and
Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com
Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034,
212-544-9480
Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220.
www.ginfizzharlem.com
Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY
10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/
Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362,
glenrockinn.com
GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com.
Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY.
914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com
Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green-
wichvillagebistro.com
Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600.
www.harlemonfifth.com
Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har-
lemtearoom.com
Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147.
hatcitykitchen.com
Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC,
212-662-8830, havanacentral.com
Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave.
highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314.
Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525,
609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com
Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD.
hudsonroom.com
Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ
IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com
INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick
NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com
Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com
Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910
Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org
Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor
Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595
Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets:
212-721-6500
Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org
The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey
Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com
Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net
Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl.,
212-539-8778, joespub.com
John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center)
Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com
Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair,
973-655-4000, montclair.edu
Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com
Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com
Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490,
knickerbockerbarandgrill.com
Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto-
ry.com
Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com
La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St,
New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com
Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com
Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244.
www.lefanfare.com
Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York,
New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com
Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080
Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400.
www.lexinghotelnyc.com
Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542,
Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com
The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC
Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org
Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585,
lounge-zen.com
Maureen's Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535-3143.
maureensjazzcellar.com
Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703
McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787,
mccarter.org
Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501
-3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm
Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206-
0440
Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY
10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com
Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com
Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933
MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com
Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area),
516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com
Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800,
montaukclub.com
Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com
Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222.
www.muchmoresnyc.com
Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com
Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between
103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org
Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376
National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455.
www.nationalsawdust.org
Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102-
3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org
New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ,
07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org
New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212-
568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com
New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw
5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu.
New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st
Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu
New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway &
University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org
North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.),
212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com
Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and
6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net
Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020
212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com
Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928
The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc
Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973-
746-6778. palazzonj.com
Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885
Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233
Clubs, Venues & Jazz ResourcesClubs, Venues & Jazz Resources
— Anton Chekhov
“A system of morality
which is based on relative
emotional values is a mere
illusion, a thoroughly vulgar
conception which has nothing
sound in it and nothing true.”
— Socrates
19 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn,
NY, 718-768-0855
Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ,
908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com
Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com
Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St.,
Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795
Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155
Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St.
(Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose
Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org
Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472,
845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com
Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th
St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org
Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700,
rustikrestaurant.com
St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377
St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728
St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200,
saintpeters.org
Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St.
NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com
Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700
Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200,
nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html
Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang-
haijazz.com
ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215
shapeshifterlab.com
Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941
Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373
Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org
Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733-
9300, skippersplaneStpub.com
Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565,
SmallsJazzClub.com
Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268
Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel,
221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799
South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484-
5120, 154southgate.com
South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC
Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787
Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St.
Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923
Stanley H. Kaplan Penthouse, 165 W. 65th St., 10th Floor,
212-721-6500, lincolncenter.org
The Stone, Ave. C & 2nd St., thestonenyc.com
Strand Bistro, 33 W. 37th St. 212-584-4000
SubCulture, 45 Bleecker St., subculturenewyork.com
Sugar Bar, 254 W. 72nd St, 212-579-0222, sugarbarnyc.com
Swing 46, 349 W. 46th St.(betw 8th & 9th Ave.),
212-262-9554, swing46.com
Symphony Space, 2537 Broadway, Tel: 212-864-1414, Fax: 212-
932-3228, symphonyspace.org
Tea Lounge, 837 Union St. (betw 6th & 7th Ave), Park Slope,
Broooklyn, 718-789-2762, tealoungeNY.com
Terra Blues, 149 Bleecker St. (betw Thompson & LaGuardia),
212-777-7776, terrablues.com
Threes Brewing, 333 Douglass St., Brooklyn. 718-522-2110.
www.threesbrewing.com
Tito Puente’s Restaurant and Cabaret, 64 City Island Avenue,
City Island, Bronx, 718-885-3200, titopuentesrestaurant.com
Tomi Jazz, 239 E. 53rd St., 646-497-1254, tomijazz.com
Tonic, 107 Norfolk St. (betw Delancey & Rivington), Tel: 212-358-
7501, Fax: 212-358-1237, tonicnyc.com
Town Hall, 123 W. 43rd St., 212-997-1003
Triad Theater, 158 W. 72nd St. (betw Broadway & Columbus
Ave.), 212-362-2590, triadnyc.com
Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St, 10007,
[email protected], tribecapac.org
Trumpets, 6 Depot Square, Montclair, NJ, 973-744-2600,
trumpetsjazz.com
Turning Point Cafe, 468 Piermont Ave. Piermont, N.Y. 10968
(845) 359-1089, http://turningpointcafe.com
Urbo, 11 Times Square. 212-542-8950. urbonyc.com
Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S., 212-255-4037
Vision Festival, 212-696-6681, [email protected],
Watchung Arts Center, 18 Stirling Rd, Watchung, NJ 07069,
908-753-0190, watchungarts.org
Watercolor Café, 2094 Boston Post Road, Larchmont, NY 10538,
914-834-2213, watercolorcafe.net
Weill Recital Hall, Carnegie Hall, 57th & 7th Ave, 212-247-7800
Williamsburg Music Center, 367 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, NY
11211, (718) 384-1654 wmcjazz.org
Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800
Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.
RECORD STORES
Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242
-3000, http://academy-records.com
Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002,
(212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com
Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804,
212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com
MUSIC STORES
Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036,
646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com
Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001
Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com
Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island
City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com
Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New
York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com
SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES
92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128
212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org
Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St.,
Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450
Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn,
NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com
City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411,
Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011,
212-741-0091, thecoll.com
Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY
Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242-
4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org
Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000
LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave.,
Long Island City, 718-482-5151
Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St.,
10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900
Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music,
University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372
Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027,
212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025
NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528
New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936
NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446
NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com
Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical
Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793
Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of
NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800
Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam-
pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302
Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University
Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595
newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html
SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300
Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues)
William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton
Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320
RADIO
WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624-
8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org
WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus
WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html
WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway
Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr
ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES
Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor-
Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368,
718-997-3670, satchmo.net
Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers-
Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595
Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org
Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300,
jazzmuseuminharlem.org
Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036,
212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org
New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org
New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org
Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY,
212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org.
“It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world
and moral courage so rare.”
— Mark Twain
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20 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
(Continued from page 11)
OP: I was fortunate to get a teaching job at what is
now called Settlement Music School. In 1978,
Billy Taylor and I first started at the school at 4th
and Queen Street and from that experience, they
gave me a job to work at Holmesburg Prison with
[violinist] John Blake and also to teach some stu-
dents at the school. That gave me a little money
and periodically I would accept some gigs around
Philadelphia. I also worked at the mail department
at the Wanamaker Building. That’s why I com-
posed one tune that I named “Mail Order.”
JI: Catalyst was a Philadelphia-based, collective
band you helped form in the early ‘70s that com-
bined jazz-funk, rock, soul and avant-garde jazz.
It’s considered to have been ahead of its time.
What circumstances brought the band together and
what made it so advanced?
OP: I got a job as music director in 1972 for a
special program that got a grant to combine music,
dance and art. I brought in Tyrone Brown, Philly
Joe Jones, Eddie Green, Jymie Merritt and Sher-
man Ferguson for jobs teaching there also. Three
days a week, Tyrone, Eddie, me and Sherman
would stay late and rehearse all night to develop
the Catalyst sound. Somehow Eddie Green made
contact with the Muse label and we did four LPs
and worked quite a bit around town. We were play-
ing all our own music which I think made us stand
out over the other groups who played standards.
Even today when I listen to that group it still
sounds good. Michael Brecker told me he used to
listen to all the Catalyst recordings.
JI: What was your connection with Grover Wash-
ington Jr.?
OP: I was in the pit band at the Uptown Theater in
the early ‘60s. On this particular Saturday night, I
had another gig and I had to find a replacement so I
asked Leon Mitchell if he knew of another tenor
player I could get to sub for me and he said there
was a new guy in town by the name of Grover
Washington so I called Grover. That turned out to
be Grover’s first gig in town since he moved from
Buffalo. That’s how we met and shortly after that,
once he had a hit record, he used to call me to work
with his group a lot and we got pretty tight.
JI: You didn’t live far from Sun Ra in the German-
town section of Philadelphia. What was your rela-
tionship with Sun Ra and the Arkestra?
OP: Sun Ra called me to make a job with him in
Chicago in the early ‘70s. That’s how I met him
and for over two months, every day, I rehearsed
with him, getting the music together because John
Gilmore had some other things going on. He want-
ed me to know the repertoire and be able to do the
job when John wasn’t available. So about the third
week of rehearsing every day I asked him how
much the gig was paying and he said, “Well, don’t
worry about that. It will be worked out.” So I came
the next day, rehearsed, and asked again how much
the gig was paying but no answer. After about sev-
en weeks I asked him again how much the gig was
going to be paying and he didn’t tell me so I sort of
pulled back from the rehearsals. I always had a
tremendous amount of respect for the group be-
cause they were doing something different but
during that time, music was my livelihood and I
had to support my wife. I got married very young.
There was also talk going around at that time that
some of the musicians wouldn’t get paid, they
would get food money or maybe a dinner. Musi-
cians at that time were so eager to work with Sun
Ra that they would work for like maybe twenty
five to fifty dollars. Since Sun Ra has passed, I’ve
been over to the house to play quite a few times
and Marshall [Allen] and I have a recording out
together [Universal Sounds, Porter Records, 2011].
I really admire Marshall.
JI: You play clarinet, oboe, flute, piccolo, soprano
sax and piano but on recordings and performances
you only use tenor sax.
OP: My feeling about that is that there’s still so
much for me to do on the tenor that I haven’t
picked up the other instruments. It’s strange but it
seems that I can adjust to the soprano’s embou-
chure a lot better than the tenor’s. I can just pick up
the soprano and the sound is right there but the
tenor requires more discipline and hard work for
me, so I try to utilize as much time as possible on
that instrument. I keep telling myself that at some
point I would like to pick the bass clarinet up. The
tenor requires so much demand in terms of tone,
technique and all the qualities that come out of it.
I’m always trying to do more on the tenor and to
play from the low B-flat to the high F and then
above the extended altissimo range that I play, it
requires a lot of time.
JI: Except for your regular work with Max Roach,
you’ve not done a significant amount of guest or
sideman work.
OP: I’ve worked with Bobby Zankel quite a bit
and I like working with him because he uses origi-
nal music and it’s a great challenge. It’s hard, com-
plex music. Most of the time I’m playing with my
quartet or my trio. I’ve played as a duet with An-
drew Cyrille a number of times. Playing with other
people really helps me develop.
JI: Let’s talk about your work as a leader. Your
skills as a composer, arranger and orchestrator are
vastly underappreciated. You’ve written a number
of compositions that are worthy of consideration as
jazz standards such as “Epitome,” “Cis,” and
“Muntu Chant,” but I don’t hear others covering
them. Where is the disconnect?
OP: I think the disconnect is with the Saxophone
Choir. The music was written for nine saxophones,
piano, bass and drums, and I don’t know of any
other saxophone choirs like that. The music is diffi-
cult to adapt to smaller groups because the melo-
dies are stretched out for nine saxophones.
JI: You’ve recorded the same original songs nu-
merous times, including “Cis” at least five times.
Why record the same songs so often?
OP: It’s been done with different configurations
and that makes a difference. I’ve done it with the
Saxophone Choir, the trio, and the octet, and with
each of those groups, it sounds like a different
song.
JI: “Cis” is a composition that you’ve been playing
very regularly for well over thirty years. You wrote
that for your wife and it has meaning to you that
listeners will never know. How has it been to per-
form that song for so many years, especially now
that your wife has passed?
OP: It reminds me of the great memories that my
wife and I shared together. She was a very special
lady. She was going to the University of Pennsyl-
vania, studying to be a writer, but when I started
traveling with Max she decided that she would
travel with me and drop out of college. So the first
trip she took with the band I was bogged down
with a full suitcase of books that she packed! She
was so special and supportive to me and every time
I play that tune I think of her and feel very special.
JI: The Odean Pope Saxophone Choir has been
active since 1977 and utilizes, as you’ve men-
tioned, nine saxophones plus a rhythm section to
translate the power and glory of the gospel choir
that you experienced as a child. That large ensem-
(Continued on page 21)
Odean Pope
“I was in the pit band at the Uptown Theater in the early ‘60s. On this particular Saturday night, I had
another gig and I had to find a replacement so I asked Leon Mitchell if he knew of another tenor player I
could get to sub for me and he said there was a new guy in town by the name of Grover Washington so I
called Grover. That turned out to be Grover’s first gig in town since he moved from Buffalo. That’s how we met and shortly after that, once he had a hit record, he used to call me to work with his group a lot …”
21 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
ble gives you so much to work with, do you feel
constricted when working in smaller settings?
OP: Not really because in each one of my groups I
try to create something a little different. With the
trio I play about fifty percent standards, with the
quartet I’m also playing some standards. I like to
play standards that haven’t been played so much
and that are unique with their chord changes and
harmonic and melodic structures. You don’t hear
people playing songs like “Nancy with the Laugh-
ing Face” and “On a Misty Night.”
JI: “Grey Hair” appears on your Epitome recording
[Soul Note, 1994]. What inspired that song?
OP: The concept behind “Grey Hair” came when I
started getting grey hair. I looked in the mirror and
I said, ‘That’s a good composition.’
JI: You titled a 1999 recording Ebioto [Knitting
Factory] which stands for “everybody is on their
own.” What did you mean by that?
OP: I meant when you get on the bandstand with
me, everyone is on their own. We each have differ-
ent ideas up there but when I write certain things,
everybody’s on their own. In other words, this is
your arena and this is my arena, and in order to
make them be compatible to one another you have
to work with it. It’s like a puzzle that must be put
together to make it sound complete. So Ebioto is a
message to the musicians who are performing it.
JI: Locked & Loaded [Half Note, 2006] was a
critically acclaimed, blockbuster recording you
made live at New York’s Blue Note club and fea-
tured performances by Michael Brecker, Joe
Lovano and James Carter. How did that project
come together?
OP: Jeff Levenson, who was working at the Blue
Note at the time, called me up and said that he had
wanted to do something with me for many years
and that he wanted to record the Saxophone Choir.
He arranged a three day recording session at the
Blue Note Club and suggested I include a different
guest soloist each night, which he left up to me to
pick. I had met James Carter about twenty years
ago in Warsaw where we struck up a nice friend-
ship. He told me he used to carry that first Saxo-
phone Choir LP around with him so I knew he
would be compatible with what I was trying to do.
Michael Brecker had told me he used to play the
Catalyst CDs all the time when he was going to
Berklee. So I knew he knew about my music. I first
met Joe Lovano after I did an interview at a radio
station in New York City. When I came out of the
studio, he was sitting on the side waiting to do his
own interview. I had never heard about him before.
He said, “Odean, I’m Joe Lovano and I really like
your music, man, and I really hope we can get a
chance to play or do something.” So these are the
three musicians I used.
JI: Michael Brecker appeared on stage with you
for that recording despite being weakened from the
disease that would take his life. What went on be-
hind the scene to get him there?
OP: A few weeks before we got ready to record,
Michael Brecker called me up and said, “Odean,
I’m very sick and I don’t know whether I’ll be
ready to do the date or not.” I said, ‘Michael, you
can do it. Somebody told me a long time ago not to
use the word can’t in my vocabulary. You can do
it, I believe in you.’ A week later he told me he
would give me his best.
JI: Plant Life is a 2008 recording [Porter] you
made that also features a composition by that
name. What inspired that title?
OP: That was inspired by the creation of plants –
trees, the foliage, and the transitions that the trees
go through. I was driving upstate to Erie and Buffa-
lo and the plants were so beautiful that I was in-
spired.
JI: Plant Life featured Sunny Murray on drums
playing uncharacteristically more in the pocket.
How did you envision Murray for that project?
OP: Sunny and I go back a long ways, we used to
play together as a duo. Before the recording, Sunny
had invited me over to Europe to do a trio thing
with him, which I appreciated, so I asked him to do
a trio recording with me for Porter Records who
had engaged me to do four or five different things.
I felt very close to him and he was one of the few
drummers during that early period who was doing
something different.
JI: There was a 2011 all-star benefit concert for
you in Philadelphia after you publically announced
your 30 year struggle with bipolar disorder. How
has that disorder interfaced with your work as an
artist and why come public with that?
OP: Bipolar is a sickness just like any other sick-
ness. I was in a European hospital for seven weeks
with bipolar in the past. Bipolar first started with
me in 1980 when I lost my brother. I couldn’t ac-
cept the fact that he was gone and I was doing all
kind of crazy things. I was a devil, I was a different
person. And then from that attack, it would seem
that whenever something very favorable happened
to me, I would get so emotional that the same thing
would happen to me. They prescribed medication
and I would take it for a short while and then stop.
But bipolar can be controlled with medication and
exercise, and you can live a normal life. When my
wife died, I couldn’t accept that and they put me in
the hospital. I first went to my daughter’s house for
about two weeks. I was walking the floor all night,
wouldn’t go to bed. Finally, her husband came to
my room one morning and said, “Put your bedroom
slippers on, we’re gonna get you out of here to-
day,” and they put me in the hospital. I was there
nineteen days, I wouldn’t cooperate with the doc-
tors, I would just look at them. Finally I told my
daughter that I was ready to come home and to take
the medication. The benefit concert was set up by
my manager Deena Adler. She got Bill Cosby to
come and the place was packed. Dee Dee Bridge-
water sent me a thousand dollars, as did Al Jarreau,
and I was able to use the money that was raised to
pay back bills because I hadn’t been working for a
while. That benefit concert gave me a new perspec-
tive after seeing all the people that were there who
thought that I should be helped and treated like a
normal person. I don’t intend to be sick anymore, I
intend to do what I’m supposed to do.
JI: The last questions were given to me by other
artists to ask you:
Gerald Veasley (bass) asked: “Knowing that you
still practice extensively every day, I wonder how
you maintain your spirit for growing as a musi-
cian?”
OP: I think over the years I’ve developed a con-
cept that I have things that I must do and things
that I want to do. I get up in the morning and do
certain practice exercises that if I don’t do every
day, I feel like I’m not complete. I often practice
(Continued on page 24)
Odean Pope
“I often practice pianissimo, just with my fin-gers, which I sort of learned from Sonny Stitt.
He had certain things that he would do in situations when he wasn’t able to practice. He developed this unique thing of just practicing by fingering the keys and listening to it. Living
here I try to be as congenial to my neighbors as possible and I practice from nine o’clock pianis-simo and then when twelve o’clock comes, I’ll
open up until five o’clock. Then maybe if I go to eight o’clock, I’ll practice pianissimo again.”
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By Eric Nemeyer; Photo by Ken Weiss
JI: Could you tell us about your recording that is a
tribute to Wes Montgomery.
PM: Personally, the preparation for this goes a
long ways back. In fact, the preparation goes back
to approximately 1958, 1959. It goes back to a time
when I wished I could play the music that I had
listened to and fell in love with which is all of the
separate cuts on this particular album, Remember.
And I’ve remembered those songs throughout my
evolution as an individual. It goes back to a time as
a child; so many of us have a dream that we wish
could come true someday. And in the process of
growing and becoming an adult, in most cases, the
majority of individuals forget what that was about.
And they proceed accordingly to fit whatsoever
they have become in that point in their life. And
rarely is it in conjunction with what they really
wanted to do as children. I wanted to be like Wes
Montgomery. I wanted to be able to play like that. I
wanted to be able to fluently flow through the mu-
sic that impressed me so deeply in my childhood.
And it took me close to 50 years to reach a point
where I have the dexterity at this point in my life to
be able to achieve that, with the same intentions
that I had as a child, which was the enjoyment of
the music itself.
JI: Do you remember any dialogue that you might
have had with Wes?
PM: One of the most significant moments was
based on me asking what the name of the chord
was. We were at the President Hotel one evening,
and I was in his room. And he was sitting on the
edge of the bed and he was playing. I don’t remem-
ber exactly what it was, but I asked him, “What is
that? What’s the name of the chord that you just
played?” And he was specific in bringing to my
attention that it really made no difference what you
called the chord, because he could care less what it
was called. And that said something to me. And it
began to reveal to me the multifaceted interpreta-
tions and definitions of quite a number of different
things that we as individuals see in different ways.
One musician sees the same chord as a B-minor
seventh flat five. Another musician sees that specif-
ic inversion of that chord as B-minor over B. There
are quite a number of things. Another musician
sees that very same chord as a B-flat major seventh
sharping the root. So what I learned from his re-
sponse was how little he could care about the name
of something and how deeply involved he was in
the essence of what that truly represented and what
it functioned as.
JI: Could you discuss your continuing evolution?
PM: Well, I think it’s essential to experience what
all of us experience in common. And that’s musi-
cianship, which is to participate as a craftsman,
successfully as a craftsman in the midst to the re-
sponsibilities of the craft itself. And that is, some
of the most basic general terms that are common in
such a pursuit would be being on time, being in the
union, when of course these things are functionally
a necessity, knowing the right people, having a
manager, looking for a manager at some point,
having a record contract, all these things that are
general interest on behalf of musicians who are
entering into this as a career. We share them in
common, initially. Somewhere down the line due
to an experience throughout the years over a broad-
er length of time in the evolution of our interpreta-
tions, we begin to see that all of these things really
have nothing to do with what we initially started
out wanting to be and wanting to do. So in that
respect, it’s impossible to tell at the early stages of
our own evolution, our experience in music exactly
what’s going to happen next and where it’s going
to bring us. But one of the most profound things of
all of this happened to me when I forgot everything
and I reestablished a position that was very similar
to the very initial departure as a child and that was
the playfulness with a toy; to be able to sit down
and enjoy something to such a degree that your
parents would have to come over and say, “Stop
doing that and do your homework” is something
that we all share in common. And something that
the majority of us forget, primarily because once
we are reorganized and pointed in a direction that
is going to be feasible for a career and for success
within an industrial society, we begin to forget the
ecstasy that we had as children lost in the playful-
ness and joy of curiosity itself.
JI: Ashley Montague said, people need to grow old
not in their childlike qualities but in their adult
qualities, otherwise heaven forbid, a certain psycho
-sclerosis sets in.
PM: Exactly, that is exactly what I’m just defining
here. So I think that has a great deal to do with
many of us as musicians, in terms of being crafts-
men in any field or any profession. And I think that
the true nature of an artist in any field of endeavor
is a little closer to the ecstasy that is innate and that
has transcended its applications within such an
industrial society, that it is the essence of that indi-
vidual’s intentions that are solidified within that
individual and he or she has then the power to cre-
ate longevity in their own ecstasy. And that is the
difference between two things in my experience,
the first being my intention as a juvenile, who is
still subject to the intentions and the responsibili-
ties of parental guidance, where it was from the
bottom of their hearts their main intention was to
advise and to guide me into directions which would
support me and would give me longevity and en-
durance and a future as opposed to the ecstasy that
was innate since childhood. So that came the sec-
ond time around when I forgot everything the first
time and the blackboard was erased. It then came
down to procrastination for a period of limbo. And
from that came finally a decisive direction and that
direction led me right back into my favorite toy:
the instrument.
JI: What was that process of recovering your
memory like?
PM: The process itself had more to do with seek-
ing a closer awareness of consciousness on a philo-
sophical as well as a spiritual level than it had any-
thing to do with a career orientation or the replica-
tion of the past for a better future. There was a
period of tumult, just very volatile confrontations
with just many things that were alienated immense-
ly to me. And what it always caused me to do was
to sink back into solitude. And it brought me closer
to individuals such as Thomas Merton and of
course nowadays would be similar to individuals
such as Eckhard Tolle and others. And it brought
into a closer interest in certain artists’ innate refer-
ences to such states of mind, such as John Coltrane
“A Love Supreme”, “Giant Steps”, but the meaning
of these terms had much more to do with the attain-
ment of a higher goal as a human being not as a
musician. And because of this it came down to a
reassessment of my own interests. And my inten-
tions had very little to do with a career anymore.
And not only that, it would have been foolish to
move in those directions due to the fact that it had
already been done. And there was a history already
built for that. So when I finally got back to my
relationship with my instrument as my toy as it was
in the beginning, prior to my educational interrup-
tion with that ecstasy, it was no longer interfered
with. And the second time through, it’s been a
childish ecstasy all the way; it’s playful to the max.
And within, like so many others, I am primarily
interested in the human experience and from a third
point of view the fidelity with regards to interpreta-
tion and definition and the decoding of all things
that lead to a happier existence.
“...we begin to see that all of these things really have nothing to do with what we initially started out wanting to be and wanting to do.
So in that respect, it’s impossible to tell at the early stages of our own evolution, our
experience in music exactly what’s going to happen next and where it’s going to bring us.”
Pat Martino
INTERVIEWINTERVIEW
Hear Pat Martino at the Jazz Standard July 19-22, 2018
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pianissimo, just with my fingers, which I sort of
learned from Sonny Stitt. He had certain things that
he would do in situations when he wasn’t able to
practice. He developed this unique thing of just
practicing by fingering the keys and listening to it.
Living here I try to be as congenial to my neigh-
bors as possible and I practice from nine o’clock
pianissimo and then when twelve o’clock comes,
I’ll open up until five o’clock. Then maybe if I go
to eight o’clock, I’ll practice pianissimo again. I
think the answer to the question would be that my
spirit and my whole development comes by way of
steady practicing and maintaining my physical
fitness through riding an exercise bicycle, I think it
inspires me to want to be a better person. There is
so much out there to learn and to develop and I
have to practice or that cannot happen. Scales and
the concept of chord changes and the fourth system
and third system are the key and what keeps me
very energized and want to keep doing more.
Joey DeFrancesco (organ) recalled a memory:
“The first time I met you was in the 9th grade when
you did some teaching at my high school, CAPA
[Philadelphia High School for Creative & Perform-
ing Arts]. I remember you teaching us “Giant
Steps.”
OP: I remember that well. I had gotten a grant to
do a ten-week workshop at the school and Christian
McBride and Joey DeFrancesco were the only two
students who were there every day and for most of
the time, they were the only two in the class. Chris-
tian was playing the upright and Joey was playing
piano. On this particular day I went in and I was
practicing before the class, warming up on “Giant
Steps.” So when they came in they said, “What is
that?” I told them and they asked me to write the
changes out. It was a Monday, and when I came
back that Wednesday they were there before I got
there, playing “Giant Steps” like they had com-
posed it. I never had seen anybody develop so fast.
“Giant Steps” is very complex, I was amazed with
what they were doing.
William Parker (bass) asked: “What are your
goals for the future? What haven’t you done that
you would like to do?”
OP: I would like to leave a great legacy in terms of
what I’ve done to help other people. I would like to
be a good force to help other people. I’d love to go
up to certain people and give them a few thousand
dollars to help get themselves together or talk to
them. I would like to give back. I’ve been so fortu-
nate to share so much with so many great people
and so many people have helped me during my
lifetime. My main goal at this time is to continue to
grow and develop and also get into the position of
being able to help more people with their concepts
and their ideas.
James Carter (multi-instruments) asked: “What
wisdom did you get from your association with
Max Roach?”
OP: I think I grew quite a bit working with Max
because he gave me so much flexibility regarding
my improvising and playing. When you improvised
he never cut you off, the only time he did was
when I was playing that one note. He was a tre-
mendous supporter of you developing your own
ideas, and without him I don’t think I would be
where I am today in terms of development, creativ-
ity, the love for the music, and all of the other
things that goes into being a great artist and staying
positive.
James Carter also asked: “Who’s currently on the
musical front that you’re digging on?”
OP: I like to listen to piano players and George
Burton is one I’ll mention. I brought him into the
Saxophone Choir when Eddie Green passed and he
developed so fast. His teacher, Tom Lawton, is
another pianist I’ll mention. He took George Bur-
ton’s place in the band and he is another talented
guy, an excellent reader, and his concept of im-
provisation is very creative and interesting.
Joe Lovano (saxophone) recalled playing at the
Blue Note club with you which led to the Locked &
Loaded recording: “Playing with the amazing
Odean Pope Saxophone Choir and standing toe to
toe with you, experiencing the total power of your
playing within the full ensemble, captured me from
the first note to the last and was a thrilling, explo-
sive experience through the evening. That night
was also extra special for all of us because Ornette
Coleman was there to hear us and sat right in front
of me. That fueled my ideas and added to the inspi-
ration that filled the room for all of us.” Would you
talk about performing in front of Ornette Coleman?
OP: I’ve had the good fortune of going down to
Ornette’s place in New York often while we were
working on this recording, especially when we
were mixing it. Just looking out and seeing him
there… One time before, I was at the Blue Note
and I remember seeing Illinois Jacquet and Sonny
Rollins [in the audience] there on the same night
and it gave me the same kind of feeling when I saw
Ornette because I used to love the way Illinois
played. When I was twelve or thirteen I thought
that was what I really wanted to do. Between Illi-
nois Jacquet, Sonny Rollins and Ornette Coleman,
the energy and ideas came by just looking at them.
It seemed like energy was coming to me when I
looked at Ornette. Ornette was the kind of person
who was very humble, he didn’t talk that much,
and he always was smiling. You never knew what
he was thinking. I had the opportunity to go down
to his home and really talk with him directly and
eat and share things with him. When he came to me
and said, “Odean, the Saxophone Choir is so won-
derful and so rhythmically and harmonically in-
clined with what we are doing today. I would like
to write the liner notes.” That was the most reward-
ing feeling that I received from that whole
[project]. In addition to Michael Brecker, James
Carter and Joe Lovano, I think the four of them
together, that’s where my inspiration came to play
and to try to do what I’m doing today. Joe Lovano
is a very humble man, he’s very original, and he’s
the kind of person who tries to enhance whatever
you’re doing.
JI: Any final comments?
OP: I’d like to mention the musicians here in Phil-
adelphia like Julian Pressley, Joe Sudler, Tom
Lawton, Lee Smith, Craig McIver, Terry Lawson,
Elliott Levin, Lewis Taylor, Robert Landham and
Bobby Zankel, these musicians they are so special
and so giving and so much into what I’m trying to
do that I feel so extremely blessed that I have these
great musical minds at my fingertips.
(Continued from page 21)
Odean Pope
I’ve had the good fortune of going down to Ornette’s place in New York often while we were working on this recording …. Just looking out and seeing him there… One time before, I was at the Blue Note and I remember seeing Illinois
Jacquet and Sonny Rollins [in the audience] there on the same night and it gave me the same kind of feeling when I saw Ornette …”
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Interview and photo by Ken Weiss
Donald Franklin Moye Jr. was born on May 23,
1946 in Rochester, New York, into a music-loving
family and shared his father’s interest in the
drums. Entranced in the ‘50s and ‘60s by the rare
and exotic African and Caribbean rhythms and
percussion techniques, Moye is able to swing and
improvise in the conventional jazz manner while
also developing an expansive, unique polyrhythmic
style. He’s best known as a member of the Art En-
semble of Chicago since 1970, as well as his time
with The Pharaohs, The Leaders, Randy Weston,
Kirk Lightsey, Steve Lacy, Wadada Leo Smith,
Julius Hemphill, Henry Threadgill, Hamiet Bluiett,
Pharoah Sanders, the Sun Ra All Stars, Archie
Shepp’s Attica Blues Orchestra, Don Pullen, Steve
McCall, Andrew Cyrille, Milford Graves, Baba
Sissoko, Kenny Clarke and numerous other well-
known artists. This interview was started live on
October 8, 2017, while he was in town with the Art
Ensemble to play Philadelphia’s October Revolu-
tion Festival [Ars Nova Workshop], and completed
by phone from his home in Marseille, France on
March 21, 2018.
Jazz Inside Magazine: What’s your family back-
ground? Where does Moye come from?
Famoudou Don Moye: My grandfather was born
in Pensacola, Florida and his grandfather was from
Haiti. He was a mix of Haiti and Seminole. My
mother’s side was from Richmond, Virginia and is
a mix of Cherokee and probably Irish or Scottish. I
went over to Haiti,
sniffing around,
and some of the
extended family
goes back to Benin,
the ancient king-
dom of Dahomey,
which is the coun-
try of origin of
many Haitians.
JI: Why did you
adopt the name Famoudou in 1975?
FDM: We were all interested in personalizing our
awareness [at that time]. I took the first name Fa-
moudou but I also wanted to honor the name that
my parents gave me, so I kept my family name.
Famoudou was a spiritual name. At the time, I was
involved with the group in Chicago called the Sun
Drummers, founded by Atu Harold Murray, which
was a collective of drummers that combined many
spirits. I had also played with many of the West
African musicians in Paris. Famoudou Konaté’s
name emerged as one of the great masters. Famou-
dou was a great djembefola [djembe drummer]
from the Mandingo tradition and I felt a great ener-
gy from that name. There was also another great
master who inspired me, Dougoufana Traoré, who
was the first Senegalese master of the djembe tradi-
tion in the modern era. I used both of their names
together for a minute but then I said, ‘No, this is
too heavy.’ I used both of their names on Julius
Hemphill’s Raw Materials and Residuals recording
but when I saw it written out, I decided I wasn’t
doing that no more. It was too heavy, it jumped up
off the page and smacked me. [Laughs] One fist
was Dougoufana and the other fist was Famoudou.
That was 1974.
JI: What do you mean by too heavy?
FDM: Names in traditional societies have a
rhythmic spiritual vibe because of the way people
get their names. You can’t be messing around with
those kind of traditions if you don’t know what
you’re doing. The name don’t just come out of the
sky. They probably have a ritual and some kind of
sacrifice, especially in the Griot societies. They
have more than five hundred years of tradition so
there’s a lot of energy attached to a name in addi-
tion to what they want to reflect through the person
who gets it and what his responsibilities are. People
of most indigenous cultures have significance at-
tached to their individual names.
JI: You ended up meeting Famoudou Konaté in
1985 in Guinea, ten years after taking his name.
That had to be a special moment for you.
FDM: I was on a tour of Sierra Leone, Liberia and
Guinée, West Africa with a trio that included saxo-
phonist John Tchicai and pianist, percussionist and
poet Hartmut Geerken. We did a concert with the
Ballet National de Guinée in Conakry Guinée so I
put out the word there that I wanted to meet Fa-
moudou Konaté personally. When we met he said,
“Who is this? Famoudou who?” I said, ‘It’s
Famoudou Me! And here’s a boom box, a fifth of
Remy Martin Napoleon Cognac, a carton of Marl-
boros, and a Swiss Army knife. Now let’s talk,
Master.’ [Laughs] That was my formal meeting
with him. The name Famoudou had come to me
and this was me realizing what the name really
represented. I made sure I went and got the
connection of who this guy really was so I’d know
what I was messing with.
JI: You brought him gifts?
FDM: That’s what you do, that’s the world tradi-
tion. You give, you don’t take. Anytime I go to
different cultures, I take gifts along, and they give
gifts back. It’s the spirit of giving and sharing, and
certainly not stealing or copying. These other cul-
tures start out by giving. They feed you and then,
depending on your presence inside of what they’re
doing, the sky is the limit from there. If you’re
already knowledgeable about their traditions, if you
half way speak the language, and know the impor-
tance of what they’re doing, then you’ll probably
have to take a duffle bag along because it’ll be full
when you leave. [Laughs]
JI: You term your playing to be “Sun Percussion.”
What does that title infer?
FDM: Energy from the sun. That’s an extension of
the Sun Drummer tradition. I was inspired by all
the energy and the spirit from participating with the
Sun Drummer. I said to myself, ‘Hmm, I’m Sun
Percussion, I do more than hand drums, I’ll expand
on that.’ All the people I deal with, you have to
personalize what you do. It’s not about sounding
like somebody else. You can do that too but you
have to try find your own personality. That’s the
gift that was given to us from the masters: Roy
Haynes, Kenny Clarke, Max, Baby Dodds, Elvin,
Papa Joe Jones, Philly Joe Jones, Billy Higgins, Ed
Blackwell, Buhaina and many, many more. Find
yourself, express yourself, define yourself.
JI: You’ve had a lifelong interest in world rhythms
and it’s been your inclusion of various African and
Caribbean percussion instruments and rhythmic
techniques that have separated you from many
(Continued on page 26)
“… you have to personalize what you do. It’s not about sounding like somebody else. You can do that too but you have to try find your own personality. That’s the gift that was given to us from the masters: Roy Haynes, Kenny Clarke,
Max, Baby Dodds, Elvin, Papa Joe Jones, Philly Joe Jones, Billy Higgins, Ed Blackwell, Buhaina and many, many more. Find yourself, express yourself,
define yourself.”
Famoudou Don Moye
Relentless Pursuit of the Pan-African Pulse
INTERVIEWINTERVIEW
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other jazz drummers of your generation. What
peaked your interest in this and why do you think
the investigation of ethnic rhythms wasn’t more
prevalent amongst other musicians at the time?
FDM: For me it was prevalent at that time. I was
hanging out with the Puerto Ricans in the housing
projects of Rochester, New York when I first heard
it, and I felt it also in the Townsend Children’s
Band and the Statesmen Drum and Bugle Corps.
Then I started playing the bongos. My first connec-
tion with hand percussion was through listening to
Perez Prado and Dizzy Gillespie. I’ve always been
captivated by drums, any kind of drums. I got dis-
ciplined at school many times for pounding on the
desks but the music saved me. A lot of my buddies
in the housing projects ended up dead or in jail.
JI: When dealing with specific ethnic rhythms is it
important to you to replicate them authentically or
are you giving an interpretation of them?
FDM: It ain’t no interpretation. If you want to do it
right, you go deal with the people who play it. I
never did YouTube study or bought too many
books beyond basic drum techniques, I went to the
people that actually do it. I believe in the direct
approach. There are no shortcuts to finding out
what it really is. If you watch something online and
rewind it over and over again, that’s not connected
to life. That’s just a diversion. You have to see how
those cats express themselves live in their own
context whenever possible. When you’re with
them, you can see and hear what’s on their minds.
If they are going to a party or to a ceremony, you
get some of the same rhythms in different func-
tions. I was in Haiti and I wanted to go swimming
but all the beaches in Port-au-Prince were com-
pletely polluted so I drove about 100 kilometers out
of town, stopped on the side of the road near a little
bridge. I had a little drum I was beating and a
couple of people came over the bridge and they
started drumming and then the mayor and some
more people came and played, and we all got toge-
ther for about three days. If you’re around different
cultures, you get all of it. Everywhere I go with the
Art Ensemble, the percussionists come out so I
meet people from all over and I’ll capitalize on that
and go to visit the places of the people I’ve met.
That’s part of the way I get involved with the
relentless pursuit of the pan-African pulse. That’s
what I call it. My classification of how this life
really goes is if you really want to consider
yourself adept at a certain tradition, can you do that
all night authentically? Not just one or two songs.
Do you have the capacity to play this music at a
high level with these musicians for a whole gig?
That goes for any kind of tradition, jazz, reggae,
the blues, djembe, koteroba, bâta, cumina, samba,
rumba, taiko or whatever. Can you do that? Then,
you can call yourself a good drummer in the con-
text of that tradition.
JI: How has rock music influenced you?
FDM: Not much, I was too early for rock & roll,
but I respect any music that’s well done and sounds
good to me. Oh, I had a lightweight brush with
rock, being a teenager of the late ‘50s and early
‘60s, and being around that environment of the
LSD scene and all that stuff. That was my encoun-
ter with rock through Frank Zappa, Jimi Hendrix
and people like that. They were pretty advanced
and every now and then I listen to some Zappa
because he was a bad dude. [Laughs] He’s one of
the great American composers and he always had
great rhythm sections. Then Santana came along
and he did a good job of exposing people to other
cultures because the white kids of that era didn’t
know anything about that.
JI: Are hand drums and percussion truer to your
heart than the standard drum set? On your 1971
solo release [Sun Percussion, Vol. 1] you don’t
event approach the drums until the sixth track.
FDM: It’s all the same, it just depends on what I’m
doing at the time. Philly Joe Jones told me it’s all
the same, man. You have to take that ass whooping
from whatever instrument you’ve got. It’s gonna be
an ass whooping.
JI: Is it true you named a son Bongo?
FDM: No, that was his nickname. All the kids that
came by to take lessons, they were Bongo One,
Bongo Two. That was just a little term of endear-
ment. He’d say, “Stop calling me Bongo!”
JI: You’ve spent a lot of time living in Europe
over the past fifty years and now live in Marseille,
France. Why did you make that move to Europe?
FDM: I went to Morocco first because I went to
play at the Casablanca Jazz Festival and then I got
a job teaching over there. Three months became six
months and then a year, things kept going on. I had
a hip operation in Italy in 2009. My manager Lu-
ciano Caiazzo had a brother, who was the mayor of
Pomigliano and he called up his buddy who was
the chief orthopedic surgeon in the hospital there
and they took me in for the surgery. I ended up
coming back too soon from rehab and that’s why
my Italian right hip is weaker than my French left
hip. In 2011 I started having trouble with my left
hip in Casablanca where I met an Italian bass
player, Claudio Citarella, whose girlfriend was a
French neurologist, who introduced me to an or-
thopedist in Nice, France. So, I did the other hip in
Marseille. That’s how I initially ended up in
France.
JI: That’s how you ended up living in Marseille?
FDM: No, I met a lady in 2007 while playing at
the Charlie Jazz Festival near Marseille and we
communicated back and forth until she finally said,
“You must come to Marseille!” After about two
years of holding off I gave in. The good ones
always win.
JI: What other musicians might we know who live
in Marseille?
FDM: Not that many. There’s Javier Campos Mar-
tinez, the bâta/rhumba and Cuban master rhythms
master in Marseille. Also I rehearse regularly and
perform occasionally with Christophe Leloil
[trumpet], Simon Sieger [piano, tuba, trombone],
and Remi Abram [tenor saxophone].
JI: You’re taking lessons?
FDM: Yeah, hell yeah! I’ve always taken lessons
with somebody. I even take drum lessons because I
always find these drummers in the pursuit of, not
perfection, just improvement. You have to find
people who do stuff that you ain’t gonna never do,
then you get with that. I’ve learned over the years
that the better teachers they are, they don’t get no
gigs. They just play drums. I’ve found three or four
of these cats over the years that just play and teach
drums and are not gig musicians. That’s all they
do. I found a guy like that in Marseille who could
be working all the time. That’s the mystery of how
cats make their life choices, and I just stay out of
that. I just find them and pay them, and then six
months go by and I learn some shit I’ve been
working on for the last twenty years without fo-
cus… You see, you have to work against your ha-
bits. There’s always somebody out there doing
something better, so I don’t have limitations [in
finding people to learn from].
JI: What’s a typical day for you in Marseille?
FDM: Get up, go to the studio. For the first time in
forty-five years I’ve got a rehearsal studio. I’m not
living in a space where I can just get up and go
downstairs and play at home. So, I’ve got a studio
now. All these other cats that I know did that and
now I’m doing it too. [Laughs] So I go across town
to the studio and hit, and I’ve usually got students
or classes, or just auto-torture. We call it duo
torture, auto-torture, group-torture, it’s all torture,
but it’s better than doing it by yourself. The auto-
torture is difficult – self-torture. You have to make
pleasantries out of all this stuff just to get through
it. You’ve got to psych yourself up, otherwise you
get older and then you start playing tricks – mental
tricks. “Oh yeah, I got this.” You ain’t got that,
man, you’ve got to face that drum set! The hardest
thing is to do that by yourself, at least for me.
Roscoe [Mitchell] gets up every day, for the fifty-
five years since I met him, he’s still doing some of
(Continued from page 25)
“Cab [Calloway] told us how back in the ‘30s and ‘40s he had to rent a sleeping car because
they could never stay in hotels. Under the floor boards, they had rifles and pistols
because once you got out of the big cities, it was like the Wild West.”
Famoudou Don Moye
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the same exercises in a similar order. He may
change the selection of the instruments, but when
he’d come to Chicago and stay at the house – 6:30
piccolo, 7:30 clarinet, 8:30 alto, 9:00 breakfast, and
10:00 tenor. That’s the cycle, and Lester [Bowie]
had the same exercises he did and used them all the
time for years. These are the people I was closest
to. Even though I worked in all kinds of other
groups outside the Art Ensemble. I wasn’t as close
with Joseph [Jarman] and his personal thing of how
he did his development. [Malachi] Favors was an
unknown element. He was old-school, didn’t tell
you nothing until you made a mistake. He got me
good on bass players though because a good drum-
mer gotta be able to play with all kinds of bass
players, and then you go to piano players, and then
you go into the interpretation and phrasing of the
frontline pretty boys. [Laughs] I like trios because
everybody’s got to throw down. Duos, you got to
really throw down. The music doesn’t lie, only
humans lie. If you’re dealing with truth, don’t mess
with human beings [Laughs], sooner or later lies
are gonna come up, but I know the music does not
lie.
JI: Has your view of America changed since you
moved away and do you plan to move back in the
future?
FDM: I’m a citizen of the world. I just try to
maximize the situation and just try to be
comfortable wherever I am, however, these are
strange times. But I’m in constant communication
with the musicians and friends. So I don’t buy into
this shit about expatriatism. I’m an African-
American, it ain’t gonna be, ‘I’m never going
back.’ I’ve spent the majority of my life traveling
and I’m not gonna get caught up with the hoax of
going somewhere to the perfect place. This shit is
horrible everywhere, man - France, England, Rus-
sia, Africa, Asia and beyond. It’s the whole new
world order. My roots are in the United States.
There ain’t no feelin’ like the feeling I have in the
States when I look at the different traditions. I can’t
imagine committing to life in another culture, it
would be a denial of all the positive elements in my
life.
JI: What’s the most unexpected item or thing
you’ve ever used to make music on?
FDM: Tire irons, brake springs, brake drums,
bamboo etc…When I was working in Napoli with a
group named Bungt Bangt led by percussionist
Maurizio Capone, they made all their instruments
from found objects and trash at the junkyard. By
Napoli being a fishing port, they got fishing crates,
Styrofoam, oil drums, and all the debris and detri-
tus from the shipping industry, and then made ins-
truments out of all of that. Oh yeah, there’s also the
side of the road cats, that’s what I call them. In
many indigenous cultures, there are guys playing
on the side of the roads that’ll make an instrument
out of anything. When I was in Sierra Leone, West
Africa, I saw the dudes there making instruments
out of olive oil or coconut oil cans. They cut them
into strips and made thumb pianos out of that. Then
I’ve seen the dudes that made drums out of stools.
They’d be sitting around and get off the stool and
the top of the stool was a drum head. They had a
whole stool drum ensemble. Then I’ve seen other
cats that had shoe drums, they had a drum attached
to the shoe, and they would play and dance. There
were also the cardboard carton cats that would
make things out of that material. I also saw an en-
semble called the Ramadan Horns whose wind
instruments were made of car and truck mufflers.
There were also people who made instruments out
of saws and large gourds. There’s a whole world of
strange instruments out there. You can go to almost
any indigenous culture and you will find these non-
professional, side of the road cats that have been
playing music their whole life. They come home
from their work and they might play until 10
o’clock at night or later. I’ve seen that in Guade-
loupe, Haiti, Mexico, India, Sierra Leone,
Morocco, Guinea, and Spain. Nobody got no mo-
ney, but that’s the strength of the human spirit.
People are gonna beat on something. Just like the
whole hip-hop phenomenon and rap, to me, that’s
an extension of the demise of music education in
the public schools: no instruments, no music pro-
grams, no bands - so kids just made themselves be
the band and the instruments.
JI: What’s been your journey from a starting musi-
cian to one of prominence?
FDM: When I got out of school everybody I met
had a band or had been in the Army bands. Roscoe
was in the Army band with Albert Ayler and Eddie
Harris at the same time. [Laughs] There were not a
lot of accessible music conservatories so musicians
went into the Army band and went home from
there, and they just got their ass kicked every day
practicing and playing morning, noon, and night.
When I went to Chicago, there were still five
playing levels, starting with the at home level, then
there was the scrub jamming practicing level, then
there was the level where you might start playing
house parties or weddings, then the next level you
play in a real club, and then you go to the top level
where you be playing with the big boys. I went
through all of that, and there was always tutelage
from the top cats. I was working with six different
bands, seven days a week, and rehearsing all day,
every day when I got to Detroit, Paris, New York,
and Chicago. I was a country boy, it wasn’t like
that in Rochester so I had to get out of there. I
would have never got that there. I left New York
because I found a house in Chicago, twice as big
for half as much. We were always committed to
quality of life and not just making every gig and
then getting home and don’t have nothing.
JI: You’re best known for your forty-seven-year
collaboration with the Art Ensemble of Chicago.
Now that original members Lester Bowie and Mal-
achi Favors have passed, and Joseph Jarman is
infirm, the band has undergone dramatic altera-
tions. In addition to original members Roscoe
Mitchell and yourself, the personnel that is current-
ly touring includes trumpeter Hugh Ragin, bassists
Junius Paul and Jaribu Shahid, and cellist Tomeka
Reid. What makes this band, the way it is com-
prised today, the Art Ensemble of Chicago?
FDM: It ain’t that dramatic, it’s the same esthetic.
The body of work is there, we don’t have to di-
verge from that. You see, our position was not
replacement, it’s just that you have special guests,
you add new elements, but your construct don’t
change. It ain’t who’s gonna replace Lester, it’s not
a replacement, it’s a special guest to come in and
express himself in this construct. The volume of
the work is so big, most people come in and have
to contribute to that. We ain’t looking for somebo-
dy to take us in another direction. We still got work
to do, man. [Laughs] The work ain’t finished, the
legacy is there so all we gotta do is focus on that.
We all had our own side bands where we could
express ourselves in the way we wanted, our goal
was when we came back, bring some new stuff,
come back fresh.
JI: Well the band does seem different these days.
Nobody is painting their faces or dressing up and
the use of small instruments has lessened.
FDM: I paint my face sometimes, it’s the feeling.
As far as the small instruments, tell that to Home-
land Security or Customs or the airlines that want
to charge you two hundred dollars for an extra bag.
Back in the day, we had cargo containers, flight
cases and international carnets. It wasn’t all the
hassles of standing in a check-in line and trying to
explain why you’re traveling with a set of drums
and percussion. Now it’s a thousand dollars to do
that. So that was by choice because we paid for all
of that equipment, for all the years we did it, and it
wasn’t exorbitant. We could have made a lot more
money if we hadn’t committed to the thing of tra-
veling with our own equipment.
JI: How are new members of the ensemble cho-
sen?
FDM: We just recruit all the time. I’ve got a per-
cussionist, Dudu Kouaté from Senegal and a per-
cussionist/griot Baba Sissoko from Mali. Roscoe’s
got Fred Berry, who goes all the way back to his
groups of the early ‘60s with Malachi Favors.
We’re always looking. We’ve never put a
restriction on ourselves. We just figure out a way to
pay for it.
JI: Let’s talk a bit about your pre-AEOC days.
While going to school at Detroit’s Wayne State
University in 1966, you spent time with the Detroit
Artists Workshop, a community organization co-
founded by political activist John Sinclair which
gave you exposure to a number of the Beat
Generation poets Amiri Baraka, Gregory Corso,
Robert Creeley and Alan Ginsberg. How did these
poets influence you?
FDM: Through their rhythms of life, their vision
of society, their relation to the reality of all the
bullshit that was going on at that time in white
American culture. That was before all the Ameri-
can white kids went crazy. The poets were cultural
beacons of a time to come when people would start
using their brains more reflectively. The Beats
played with musicians during poetry readings. I
can’t say that the poets effected my playing be-
cause I was listening to Miles, Coltrane, Duke and
others, but it was more of their lifestyle that had its
(Continued on page 29)
Famoudou Don Moye
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effect. Their words were good for the brain, put
something on your mind. They turned me onto
other writers from around the world and from diffe-
rent social origins.
JI: You also met Timothy Leary, the famous LSD
pioneer.
FDM: I can tell you the last meeting with him.
[Laughs] I was in Tangiers, Morocco in 1969 with
the Detroit Free Jazz band after we had done some
productions with Julian Beck and Judith Malina’s
Living Theater in Europe. We rented a house and
Timothy Leary shows up in town with all these
rich, white hippie kids, talking about how they
were gonna have a new ‘LSD Nation’ on the
beaches of Tangiers [Laughs]. The Moroccan Cus-
toms and Border Police showed up and said, “Oh,
hell no, not here!” We got ourselves out of town in
the next days, down further south to Essaouira,
because they were busting everybody that didn’t
look right in Tangiers as a result of Leary showing
up. At that time, Tangiers had a pretty good jazz
scene because Randy Weston had a club there,
which is one of the reasons we ended up there.
JI: After the Detroit Free Jazz band disbanded in
Copenhagen you relocated to Rome. How did you
join forces with Steve Lacy there?
FDM: Oh, I did all of my research at that time on
who was doing what and where in Europe. I knew
there weren’t a lot of drummers in Rome and I got
there because I had a gig set up there and an apart-
ment. Once I got there, as per my usual routine, I
went to all of the dance schools and studios in town
because in those days they needed live music for
their movement classes. I did that in any town that
I’d go to. I worked with the Norman Davis Dan-
cers, The Bob Curtis Dancers, trumpeter Enrico
Rava, bassist Marcello Melis, singer Archie Savage
and saxophonist Gato Barbieri, and then I met
Steve Lacy. He rehearsed every day but he wasn’t
working that much. I hung out with him for several
months until we both decided to leave for Paris. As
a matter of fact, I paid his train ticket to Paris be-
cause he was broke. First day we got to Paris, we
went to the local spot in the Latin Quarter and there
was Art Taylor, Mal Waldron, Marion Brown and
Frank Wright all siting at the café in the afternoon
having coffee and a beer, and then Johnny Griffin
walked by. [Laughs] So I said, ‘Ok, here I am!’
JI: Talk about the Paris scene when you got there?
FDM: Frank Wright and his band, we all stayed in
the same hotel. Me and his drummer, Muhammad
Ali, got to be good buddies. I was like the little kid
with those guys, hanging out with them all the
time. I also had my gigs with the dance classes
there. Paris was filled with African drummers so I
had some serious competition. We used to rehearse
at the American Center for Students and Artists in
Montparnasse, Paris. That was a good place for
shows, and I would see Slide Hampton, Art Taylor,
Johnny Griffin, Dizzy Reese, Philly Joe Jones, who
was my good buddy, and Randy Weston. Paris was
the center at that time. Albert Ayler, Cecil Taylor
and Archie Shepp among others came through
there. Sunny Murray was around, trumpeter Alan
Shorter. I was friends with ten different drummers
and everybody was working.
JI: You became especially close with drummer
Art Taylor while in Paris.
FDM: I used to go by his house all the time when
he was in town and we would play rudiments and
just drum talk. He even gave me a set of drums. I
paid him 500 francs, 100 dollars at the time, but it
was like super deluxe, top of the line Sonor drums.
He was a Sonor endorsee and he said he wanted me
to have those drums. Art Taylor, Randy Weston,
Memphis Slim, Johnny Griffin and Kenny Clarke
were the heroes for all the young cats in Paris for
how to get through the European stuff on top.
There was a whole scene there alternative to being
in New York.
JI: While in Paris you took over the vacant drum-
mer chair for the Art Ensemble of Chicago in 1970.
How did you get offered the band and what was the
environment like at the French farm house the band
lived in?
FDM: Lester Bowie said, “If you want to be in this
band are you prepared to take your place in the
history of music? Otherwise, do not fuck with us!”
That was his mindset at that time – they were
getting ready to make history by going forward into
the unknown future. Of course I wasn’t gonna say
no. It was significant because of the range of the
material and all the stuff they were doing. We
rehearsed every day at the big house they rented in
the suburbs of Paris. Lester had his wife, Fontella
Bass and four kids with him and two dogs so it was
a family environment plus a work situation.
Rehearsing every day was mandatory. It was the
formula for serious research. We warmed up on
twenty songs at a time and every couple days we’d
change the list of songs. We’d do all kinds of songs
– ragtime, blues, country western, R & B, straight-
ahead bebop, ballads and calypso. They were all
really into percussion so we’d have a period every
day when we’d work on rhythms and percussion
techniques. Lester Bowie’s first wife and vocalist
Fontella Bass was often working with us, so that
was a good experience with that level of vocalist
because she was an accomplished gospel and R &
B singer. For me, this was the real deal. It wasn’t
like we were studying, we were DOING this! We
were playing music at the highest level.
JI: It’s ironic that you became a member of the Art
Ensemble of Chicago yet had never been to
Chicago.
FDM: Well, yeah. [Laughs] They had several guys
from Chicago that were on the short list of drum-
mers in ’67 after Phillip Wilson left to go play with
Paul Butterfield. Phillip said, “I’ll be right back,
I’m just going to make this quick tour,” and he
never came back. He ended up playing at
Woodstock and beyond. They considered drum-
mers Jerome Cooper, who was buddies with Ros-
coe, Steve McCall, and Thurman Barker. There
were about ten cats around Paris and Chicago that
were possibilities, and then I showed up. I think the
hook was my hand percussion. I hit it off pretty
good with Malachi [Favors]. There was a concert at
the American Center where I played with the Steve
Lacy Quartet on the same bill as the Frank Wright
Quartet and the Art Ensemble. We did our set and
then the Art Ensemble was playing, and when they
got to an open section with percussion, I took my
conga drums to an open area next to Favors, put
them in place, grabbed a nearby chair, sat down,
and started improvising with them. They looked
sideways at me but Favors told me to keep playing
and that’s how we first got started. I was in the
right place at the right time. They later came to
watch me play again at a gig with Steve Lacy and
saw that I could play trap drums too. I did some
gigs and tours with them before Lester came and
asked me into the group.
JI: Was that your sly way of auditioning for the
empty drum chair?
FDM: Of course, I was hoping to throw my hat in
the ring next to the ten other drummers vying to get
the gig with The Art Ensemble of Chicago.
JI: How did Lacy react to you telling him you had
taken up with another band?
FDM: I told him that the Art Ensemble of Chicago
wanted me to tour with them on a regular basis and
I asked for his advice. His response was, “Are you
nuts or bullshitting me young man? You’d do best
(Continued from page 28)
“We rehearsed every day at the big house they rented in the suburbs of Paris. Lester had his wife, Fontella Bass and four kids with him and two dogs so it was a family environment plus a work situation. Rehearsing every day was
mandatory. It was the formula for serious research. We warmed up on twenty songs at a time and every couple days we’d change
the list of songs.”
Famoudou Don Moye
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31 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
to go on about your business while you’ve got
some business to go on to!”
JI: Would you talk about life with the AEOC, es-
pecially back in the ‘70s and ‘80s? They were
known for presenting very animated stage presenta-
tions which included at least once, Joseph Jarman
ripping off his clothes until he was completely
naked.
FDM: Jarman did that in 1969 at a big rock festival
in the north of France before my time in the band.
He was playing guitar, doing a parody on the social
element of rock & roll, and during his solo, he
started taking his clothes off. That was an historic
moment, a direct extension of his theatrical activi-
ties. He was doing all kinds of theater pieces in
Chicago and Paris. At that time there was a great
interdisciplinary activity between music, dance,
theater, creative writing and painting. Everyone
performed together.
JI: The group traveled in a bus with two guard
dogs and shotguns and rifles.
FDM: That was the Cab Calloway legacy. Cab told
us how back in the ‘30s and ‘40s he had to rent a
sleeping car because they could never stay in ho-
tels. Under the floor boards, they had rifles and
pistols because once you got out of the big cities, it
was like the Wild West. You had to carry guns to
protect yourselves. We bought a 1951 Greyhound
bus after we played at the 1972 Ann Arbor Jazz
and Blues Festival. We went straight to the Grey-
hound used bus lot in Detroit and got our bus. It
looked just like the bus that Louis Armstrong, Bing
Cosby and Bob Hope traveled around with in the
On the Road movies during the ‘50s.
JI: Did you ever have to pull the shotguns out?
FDM: Yeah, hell yeah! Four o’clock in the morn-
ing, up in the countryside of Michigan, our bus
broke down. We were out there in the middle of
night, waiting for the sun to come up, and all of a
sudden, all these lights appeared and the white
vigilantes were there with their guns. They said,
“What you boys doing out here?” We said, ‘We’re
here minding our business. What you doing?’ And
we had our guns and the dogs were barking and
they said, “Well, look here, Jethro over there, his
cousin is a mechanic, and in the morning he can fix
y’all all up and you can get the hell on out of here.”
We said, ‘Thanks a lot Bubba, we’ll see you at six
o’clock.’ It’s a good thing we had our guns because
it could have turned out differently.
JI: Joining the AEOC and not being from Chicago,
were there problems for you upon arriving in Chi-
cago with the band?
FDM: I quickly became immersed deeply into the
Chicago tradition just by virtue of the fact that I
arrived with the Art Ensemble. If I had arrived on
my own, it would have taken me years. I met a lot
of the characters and personalities from the scene
because they were coming to see who the hell is
this? They talked about how the Art Ensemble
went to Europe and came back with some dude
who’s not even from Chicago. They were saying,
“Who is this dude,” and I was saying, ‘You will
find out.’ [Laughs] I had to brush back from the
cats. Even Jack DeJohnette came in and tried to
turn me into a punching bag, and I punched back.
Chicago is the “punching bag tradition.” They spar
with you to see if you’ve got heart. You can’t go in
half stepping. Fear is not acceptable. A lot of times,
the older cats would try to make you flinch and you
had to stay there and take it, and then the next time
they would say, ‘Nobody told you to talk, man, go
get me some cigarettes and get back to this rehear-
sal on time!’
JI: You’re saying that Jack DeJohnette challenged
you?
FDM: Yes. Steve McCall challenged me, and Phil-
lip Wilson, and Thurman Barker and Jerome
Cooper, and Robert Shy. All of the drummers,
that’s part of the deal. They said, “You look like
you can play. You got heart?” There was no
physical contact, just psych stuff. All those cats
were good at heart, it’s not a negative thing, but the
music tradition is precious. This was in the days
before all the jazz schools. The jazz school I went
to was in the neighborhood.
JI: The Art Ensemble did some joint touring with
Max Roach’s Double Quartet. Did you have much
of a relationship with Roach?
FDM: I was watching Max every night and we got
to be good buddies until I walked his daughter
home one night. He drove up in a taxi and said,
“Okay, that’s the end of that shit!” [Laughs] We
were just going back to the hotel, the string quartet
was walking too, then Max got out of the taxi and
walked with us. Oh, boy, we laughed about that!
Chico Hamilton was on that tour too, and for my
taste, Chico Hamilton was one of the baddest so-
loists at that time. Also one of the all-time drum-
mers for me was Joe Dukes. Did you ever hear Joe
Dukes with Brother Jack McDuff? That was a bad
dude there.
JI: You performed with other prominent and influ-
ential bands in the mid-‘80s. How was it playing
drums with eight brass players in Lester Bowie’s
Brass Fantasy?
FDM: It was great because I came up in drum and
bugle corps as a kid. We were national champions
in the early sixties.
JI: You were also a founding member of the jazz
supergroup The Leaders [featuring players such as
Chico Freeman, Don Cherry. Arthur Blythe, Kirk
Lightsey and Lester Bowie]. What was the concept
for that band and how was membership deter-
mined?
FDM: Because the Art Ensemble rehearsed and
worked so much, we encouraged each other to
make damn sure that everybody got all of their pet
projects done during the Art Ensemble’s down time
so as to get that off their chests. Everybody had
elements that they wanted to look into that would
not have been successful inside of all the music
that the Art Ensemble was trying to do. So The
Leaders was an extension of me wanting to play a
different kind of music. I had been playing around
New York, Europe and Chicago with Chico Free-
man and one day we sat down and came up with a
construct based on the cooperative ideals of the Art
Ensemble of Chicago. Philippe De Visscher, the
Belgian agent that was booking the Art Ensemble
decided he wanted to do an “All-star band,”
whatever that means, so me and Chico sat down
and did a list of people we’d like to perform with.
Our first choice for piano was Don Pullen, but he
was too busy with the Don Pullen/George Adams
Quartet so we called Hilton Ruiz, who stayed for a
short time until he got too busy. So we called Kirk
Lightsey, who I never imagined I’d be working
with because he was like one of the “big boys”
when I was in school in Detroit, one of the
“men.” [Laughs] Lightsey said he’d do it and then
we called Don Cherry, Arthur Blythe and Cecil
McBee. We really had eyes to hire Lester Bowie
but he was too busy with the early version of Brass
Fantasy, Jack DeJohnette, and the Art Ensemble.
He did join us later once Don Cherry committed to
Old and New Dreams. The Leaders was a
cooperative band without a leader. It differed from
the Art Ensemble in that everyone cooperated on
doing tasks but they weren’t collectively paying for
anything. With the Art Ensemble, fifty percent of
all profits went into the pot to pay operating
expenses, everybody was a leader and we all paid
in the same amount.
JI: In 1983 you were part of a percussion quartet
with Andrew Cyrille, Milford Graves and Kenny
Clarke that recorded Pieces of Time. Would you
talk about that special collective?
FDM: That was Kenny Clarke’s last recording
session. Andrew put that all together. Andrew
called me and said, “We have to do this because
Kenny’s coming to New York!” Kenny was
hesitant to do that recording with us because he
said doing all that percussion wasn’t “his thing,”
but then Max [Roach], his buddy, stepped in and
told him, “Go ahead and make that money.” Max
was driving Kenny around in New York then
because Kenny was sick. Kenny was great, he was
really humble.
JI: What current projects are you involved in?
FDM: I’m studying, studying, studying. I’m
working a lot with Archie Shepp’s projects and I
work with the Kirk Lightsey Trio. I’ve got my
Percussion Ensemble: MMusic, with MMusic stan-
ding for the countries of origin for the six percus-
sionists in the band - Morocco, Mali, United States,
Senegal, Italy and Cuba. I also have some projects
that I’ve been working with to keep my edge. I’m
playing with a good trumpet player named Chris-
tophe Leloil who I met in Shepp’s band. I’m also
working with a Martinique saxophone player, Re-
my Abram and a young multi-instrumentalist na-
med Simon Sieger. There’s not that much work. I
don’t jump out there like that – I say, ‘Say No and
Get Mo.’ I just pick my spots but I’ve got enough
work going on. I’d be doing the same thing if I was
living anywhere else. The idea isn’t to run around
so much. You’ve got to stay focused and a lot of
times touring takes you out of focus unless you’re
fortunate enough to be doing your own thing most
(Continued from page 29)
(Continued on page 32)
Famoudou Don Moye
32 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
of the time. I’ve never been the one answering the
phone to be a hired gun but I tip my hat to the cats
that can get up and go out the door, going to a dif-
ferent gig every night, the way the conditions are
now. My real focus is to stay home because I’ve
seen so many musicians that were never home so
they didn’t have no home, and all they’d talk about
was music. I say, ‘Man, I’ve got enough music to
last me.’
JI: What are your guilty pleasures?
FDM: I’m supposed to answer that? [Laughs] I’ve
got hobbies but I’m not answering that! The last
three houses that I’ve had, I’ve designed the
kitchen, so that’s a pleasure, but that’s not guilt. I
cook all the time. I like to do wood refinishing and
gardening. I also do a lot of archiving. Cats used to
laugh at me when I would go out after the concert
with my sack and get all the ticket stubs and
concert programs, stealing posters off the walls
before the concert started so that I’d have a whole
collection of memorabilia.
JI: The last questions have been given to me to ask
you from other artists:
Roscoe Mitchell (multi-instruments) asked: “Now
that the Art Ensemble of Chicago is approaching its
50th Anniversary in 2019, what are your thoughts
moving forward?”
FDM: To consolidate all of our experiences and
get up the next day and go forward, don’t go back.
Roscoe’s going forward and I’m just keeping in
step with him. You’ve got to get up and do some-
thing. We’ve got an expanded format for 2019 and
beyond.
Hugh Ragin (trumpet) asked: “When a student is
learning African rhythms, how important is learn-
ing the dance and the language of the culture that
produced those rhythms?”
FDM: Critical, because it’s a multisensory expe-
rience. I tell my drum students, ‘If you can’t dance
yourself, how you gonna play dance music?’ If
you’re gonna play rhumba and salsa, rhythms,
grooves, and whatever else you hear, you’ve gotta
dance and sing through your instrument. The music
is in the language and the language is in the music
and the music and the language are in the drums.
Dan Weiss (drums) asked: “I would love to know a
handful of your favorite recordings and why you
like them.”
FDM: Le Carnaval des Animaux by Camille Saint-
Saëns, which is a cello piece, because I was a
violin student for a little while. I listen to a lot of
Toumani Diabaté, the kora master/griot from Mali.
Another of my all-time favorites is Albert Collins
& the Icebreakers, that’s Texas blues. The
Mendelssohn Violin Concerto and the Tchaikovsky
Violin Concerto. I used to listen to them every day
when I was in high school. I had a record with
them on the same album. Charles Mingus’ Black
Saint and the Sinner Lady, John Coltrane’s, Kulu
Se Mama. I would also have to say Mongo
Santamaria’s Yambu and Tito Puente’s Puente in
Percussion. Another one that really inspired me
was Totico y su Rhomberos with Jerry Gonzalez,
Steve Turre, Don Alias, Andy Gonzalez, and Toti-
co the singer. I bought that record in the subway at
43rd Street in New York. For me, Don Alias is ki-
lling on that.
Kirk Lightsey (piano) said: “Moye is one of my
best friends. We talk every day and he is still one
of my favorite drummers in the world! My question
is what memories do you have of The Leaders, and
I wonder what you have to say about how that great
band ended?”
FDM: Ok, I’m not going to go into the details of
the ending, but the beginning and the duration was
great. Playing with Kirk and with Cecil McBee was
a real challenge, they had been playing with each
other since the Army in the ‘50s. They came out of
Detroit and did all those piano-bass duos around
New York because there was a city ordinance that
you couldn’t have a drummer in a lot of clubs.
Consequently, the rhythmic foundation and the
intensity and strength of all of Kirk and Cecil’s duo
gins were really solid because they had played a lot
without a drummer. When they played, all the
rhythms were there, so I had to put myself inside of
that equation as a trio and rhythm section to
compliment the band, because if you missed a beat,
they’d run over your ass. I had to learn to play with
those masterful artists.
Pheeroan akLaff (drums) asked: “Why did you
decide to become facile in European languages,
while many expatriate musicians did not?”
FDM: That goes back to grammar school. I lived
in a building in upstate New York in the ‘50s, after
World War II, and there was a whole mix of cul-
tures who were there because work was available.
We lived in the projects and on my floor we had
Greek, African American and German families,
and also a good mix at school, Italians, Polish and
Puerto Rican. We had a choir at the church that
sang songs in many different languages. So, I heard
all these different languages every day. I studied
Latin when I was in high school. I’m learning to
comfortably speak French, English, German,
Spanish, Italian, Wolof, Bambara, Arabic and some
Russian. I just deal with whatever it takes to ask
where’s my money, [Laughs] where’s the hotel,
what time is the gig, and what time is the next
flight? It costs a whole lot of money when you
don’t know what you’re talking about. People don’t
always know that I often understand their language.
So, I really get to hear what they’re saying on the
side.
Pheeroan akLaff also asked: “Do you believe that
U.S. audiences have ‘caught up’ to the level of
curiosity, receptivity, or critical analysis offered by
European listeners in the 20th Century, regarding
African American creative music paradigms?”
FDM: Whew, that’s a mouthful! I wouldn’t say
caught up, Americans often just don’t have an awa-
reness of other cultures. Everything is focused on
the American thing. I’ve found Europeans and the
Japanese to be a lot more open but in the States
you’ll have some magic moments when you least
expect it then you say, ‘Now this is the real deal!
This is the American feeling here!’ Any other au-
dience, in any other place, would not understand
this like that.
J.T. Lewis (drums) said: “Maestro Moye it was an
honor to be asked to be included in your interview.
You are one of my heroes and I hope I can make
you proud to continue the tradition of this special
music from Africa and Black America. When I
listen to your playing, your vocabulary is very
large, it sounds like it comes from a lot of places.
Can you explain how you developed such a large
drumming vocabulary?
FDM: A large influence came from the Art Ensem-
ble and the way we used to rehearse all kinds of
music. We’d always do twenty different songs as a
warmup every day and change them often to incor-
porate different types of styles. Once I got to Chi-
cago I played with a lot of different people. One
group was called the Pharaohs, which was founded
by Phil Cohran. A number of those people went on
to become part of Earth, Wind and Fire. There
were six percussionists in that group and that inspi-
red me to form my own percussion ensemble. I was
also working with African dance companies and
modern dance companies. I often worked with the
legendary Von Freeman, which I consider a feather
in my cap, and also the great piano player Willie
Pickens. The great Chicago drummer Wilbur
Campbell started calling me to sub for him. I was
studying with Muhal [Richard Abrams] and
playing with the AACM Big Band as well as co-
leading many projects with percussionist Enoch
Williamson. I was also working with poets, actors,
dancers and theater groups. I was playing with
percussionists from Africa, Cuba, Puerto Rico,
Columbia, and beyond. I also had contact over the
years with all kinds of drummers. I was fortunate to
have an open mind or have my mind opened, and
have had concentrated exposure to a lot of different
musical disciplines.
Jamaaladeen Tacuma (bass) asked: “How did you
become involved and inspired in fashion and
personal style, a passion that you enjoyed in the
past and currently still. How was that passion
transferred to the visual and performance concepts
of the Art Ensemble of Chicago? I mean the Art
Ensemble’s performances were crazy with Bowie
walking around in a lab coat and Malachi’s and
your face painted, it was definitely visual.”
FDM: I’m an adherent to the old style, old school,
of dressing for the occasion. There are several dif-
ferent ways to reflect that in your choice of dress.
You have the tribal influence, the spiritual in-
fluence, the ritual influence, the social influence.
All of these things were reflected in my vision of
the world around me. The people that I saw coming
to town to play when I was coming up, they dres-
sed. It wasn’t just jeans and t-shirts. My exposure
to people dressing for performance stayed with me
and as I moved out into my own consciousness I
started seeing styles like the Native American aes-
thetic, the African aesthetic, the Indo-Asian aesthe-
tic and the world wide Indigenous aesthetic. I had a
mixture of all these influences from traveling
around, meeting tailors and crafts people, buying
stuff and combining elements. In conjunction with
all of that was the Art Ensemble’s encouraging
every member to have their own look. Everyone
was focused on dressing and preparing their ap-
pearance for the stage and beyond. There were
performances when I first got in the band that
everyone painted their faces including Lester, Ros-
coe and occasionally even Fontella Bass when she
performed with us.
(Continued from page 31)
33 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
By John R. Barrett, Jr.
The Messengers opened 1963 in Japan,
their first appearance in that country. On their
Tokyo concert of January 2, they played be-
hind singer Johnny Hartman – the first time a
vocalist appeared with the group. (This event
would go unrecorded; their first disc with a
singer would be 1964’s Kyoto, made with
Blakey’s cousin Wellington.) Spring was
spent in a lengthy tour, as Blakey hit San
Francisco in February, Birdland in March,
Europe through April, and back to the Jazz
Corner on June 16, where a live album was
made called Ugetsu.
Their final record at Birdland,
the crowd is receptive and the sound
is warm – they also had a new batch
of tunes, many composed in Japan.
“One by One”, a landmark for
Shorter, has a prim theme that
quickly turns sassy – the cue comes
from Blakey, thumping the toms
with insistence. The longer the
horns play, the more their harmo-
nies fan out; Wayne turns hopeful
on his solo, moving up with a bitter-
sweet tang. Hubbard is peaceful on
the choruses, flamboyant on the
bridge; his highlight is a pleading
note, held for six bars. Walton’s bit
recalls Booby Timmons in its
breathless blues; Fuller has a great
tone, but does little with it. A won-
derful opener, this signifies the
group is ready … the crowd is cer-
tainly ready to applaud.
During his time with Blakey,
Cedar Walton did not write many
tunes … but those he did were
priceless. On his first rehearsal with the
group, Walton brought in a thing called
“Mosaic”; it became the title cut of their next
album. The same thing happened here: Ce-
dar’s lone composition was penned in Tokyo,
its title coming from the Japanese word for
“fantasy”. At once the mood is set, when Ce-
dar launches a Tyner-like vamp, simple yet
lavish.
Freddie offers the theme with gentle
grace, then blasts off for an athletic solo. His
notes are limitless, flapping like butterfly
wings as Workman makes a sinewy walk. If
he is a storm, Shorter is a spring wind, puffing
steadily but softly. His turn is one long varia-
tion of a compact phrase; as Walton’s vamp
returns, he moves like Trane for an exquisite
mood. Fuller sounds a little pugnacious, pac-
ing with tiny steps. His notes are rounded,
sweet, and long – his is the most coherent
solo, and the most consistent. Wait for the end
-theme, where the horns trade tiny solos,
Fuller does a long quote of “It Never Entered
My Mind”, and Walton sounds exactly like
Tyner on “My Favorite Things” … like the
best fantasies, this one comes true.
Fuller’s “Time Off” is a racer, allowing
Blakey and the trombonist to show their chops
at high speed. Wayne does the same, making
like Rollins through the steady flood of
chords. It is inherently logical, flawlessly per-
formed – when Art does his double-time rim-
shot, he’s actually slower than Wayne is!
Freddie begins at that speed, and goes from
there: the opening flood of high notes will
stun you. Art is having the time of his life,
raining down cymbals like mad; Cedar’s elab-
orate solo is matched by Reggie’s manic
walk. Very few groups could keep this pace
for five minutes; the crowd recognizes this,
and rewards accordingly.
The stage is tense for Shorter’s “Ping-
Pong”; Cedar’s comp explains the title.
Shorter begins with the quote of “While My
Lady Sleeps”, then runs through jazzed corri-
dors – decent, but we’ve heard it before. Bet-
ter is Hubbard, who dances around the scale
with deft precision – Fuller succeeds him in
mid-chorus, and continues the thought with
lively steps. The end is the best part, where
Hubbard screams as the rhythm freaks out –
it’s a Ferris wheel out of control. No solo real-
ly stands out; the tune is the star of this one.
“I Didn’t Know What Time It Was” puts
the spotlight on Shorter, who starts with rest-
less, rippling patterns, as Coltrane would
sound on A Love Supreme. Slower than most
renditions, the tune is a walk through the rain:
leisurely, sad, cold, and beautiful. Cedar’s
chords are glassy and gorgeous; we don’t hear
the other horns ‘til the end, when they roar
with big-band dynamics. Because of Fuller’s
presence, Wayne didn’t get the solo time he
had on past projects – this rectifies it, and
how. He ends it with a rusty trill in the image
of Coltrane, and soon launches into “Ginza”,
another standard of his. The ensemble harmo-
nies are rich, the feel propulsive –
Wayne’s solo has a worried feel in
its frantic lines, a tough sort of fra-
gility. Hubbard opts for diagonal
lines, in a persistent march upward:
cymbals roam free, and Walton is
the real McCoy. Curtis’ effort is his
best of the evening, where muscular
phrases match his tough tone.
Workman has a spindly part,
matched well with Cedar’s com-
ping; the end-theme tops the entry,
and the disc sadly ends. Almost
perfect from beginning to end, this
may be the Messengers album to
hear first.
Three more tunes were record-
ed this night, to appear on the CD
reissue of Ugetsu: a cursory take on
“The Theme”, Shorter’s slow ballad
“Eva” (all twisting melodies and
chorded horns) and the Monk-
inspired “The High Priest”. Work-
man starts with a nervous bounce,
the horns sketch the uneasy melody.
The drums are big here: mostly toms, with the
occasional cymbal for emphasis. Curtis
blooms on his solo, a warm flurry of delicate
notes. His wavelike patterns are followed by
Walton, at which time the cymbals do their
job. Wayne spins a weary circle, giving way
to Hubbard’s fast flight. Art does what he can
to drive him faster, and then there’s Cedar,
dispensing elegance with the speed of a player
piano. You’re amazed at their skill, their
wealth of compositions … and wonder how a
tune like “The High Priest” could be not good
enough. Such things will happen with stand-
Art Blakey
His Life & Music — Part 7
FEATUREFEATURE
34 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
ards this high.
In the mid-‘Sixties Art’s recording sched-
ule slowed down considerably; three months
passed between Ugetsu and his next album, A
Jazz Message. Title to the contrary, this does
not feature the Messengers, but rather an intri-
guing one-time quartet. Two of the players
had never recorded with Blakey: McCoy
Tyner, already famous with Coltrane, and Art
Davis, the second bassist on a rejected take of
“A Love Supreme.” The fourth member, Son-
ny Stitt, had worked with Art – but hadn’t
done so since 1950! Cut on September 5 for
the Impulse label, this could have been a dis-
aster … but considering the people involved,
you know otherwise.
The band earns its keep with the opening
song, a blues called “Café”. Davis begins with
a baião-like figure, seemingly ¾ and 4/4 at the
same time. Blakey provides some hard sticks,
establishing the time as 4/4; the theme comes
from Tyner, as a vaguely sinister Latin dance.
After this he steps back, providing thick
chords for Stitt’s relaxed solo.
Far smoother than his norm, Sonny hums
at mid-tempo, a chain of sly, interlocked
notes. A few choruses in he begins to move:
there’s a passionate trill, an urgent rush, and
constant bombs from Blakey. This solo is well
organized, more cerebral than you expect
from Stitt – Tyner begins his by chiming the
high notes, almost like a celeste. The third
chorus comes with block chords, while keep-
ing the high notes; the fifth does the same
with thicker harmonies, and it ends just as it
gets good. Davis’ turn seems without meter, a
cluster of raw, high, sharply-plucked notes.
Some passages sound like Oscar Pettiford at
the cello, others like avant-garde classical
music, which Davis also played. The ex-
changes are a wicked duel between Stitt
(quoting “Topsy” at one juncture) and Blakey
(cracking the snares and tuning the toms). The
result is a densely-packed six minutes – with
all the ideas here, they could have played for-
ever.
“Just Knock on My Door” is a more con-
ventional blues, begun by Davis in a typical
walk pattern. Stitt’s on the alto, blowing small
feathery notes; he’s relaxed even on the fast
parts. The tone has light rasp and swaggers
like a tenor – this solo owes nothing to Parker.
The background for this is quite basic: foggy
cymbals, an unadorned bass-walk, and a cur-
sory comp by Tyner. It fits the mood but
McCoy seems tense, as if he wants to do
more.
On his own solo, he does – a rolling bar-
room blues, with gradually ripening harmo-
nies. His famous block chords are heard just a
little, but enliven the tune whenever they’re
played. It’s interesting that both Stitt (the grit-
ty competitor) and Tyner (the dazzling sophis-
ticate) play the opposite of their usual roles.
Davis gets another solo, filled with broad
swoops and elliptical phrases; on the second
chorus Sonny comes in, hitting a riff like a car
horn. This is the door-knock of the title: an
inviting sound, and an inviting tune.
“Summertime” is made for Stitt, its chord
structure ideal for his lyricism. He does the
theme simply, with the tiniest hint of vibrato –
his rasp deepens at the solo, where he un-
leashes a flamboyant trill. Art’s snare keeps
pattering like soft rainfall; the brushes are
constant, working a light mist on a big cym-
bal.
The most noteworthy part of Tyner’s solo
is that he uses nothing from his 1960 version,
made with John Coltrane for the My Favorite
Things album. While that effort was an echo-
washed onslaught of chords, this take is inti-
mate, mixing cocktail phrases with patches of
silence. He has totally changed his approach
for this record – while Tyner was aggressive
with Coltrane, pushing him with energetic
comps, here he steps back and lets Sonny
work at his own pace. This draws it all togeth-
er: this isn’t four superstars in the same room,
but a genuine group.
Side Two opens with another blues, boo-
gied sweetly by Tyner. Inspired by “After
Hours”, “Blues Back” combines slow lonely
chords with a steadily marching cymbal.
Sonny’s got a syrupy tone, well-suited for
things like this; he quotes “Lucky So-and-So”,
then spins dizzying circles for his finish.
McCoy’s effort is somewhat clunky, and it
ends rather suddenly – decent in parts, but it
seems like an afterthought.
“Sunday”, a Jule Styne standard, is given
the soft touch by Stitt, who includes bits of
“Too Close for Comfort” and “There’s a
Small Hotel”. There are no notes, rather a
stream of vibrato-filled sound – there are
times when he sounds like Stan Getz! Davis
gives an intricate twang to his walk, some-
what buried by the cymbals; McCoy’s turn is
sleek, and all the notes twinkle. It is followed
by a fast “The Song Is You”, where the alto
coos one moment and groans the next. Sonny
fires on all cylinders: his solo is a breathless
sentence, where a thousand ideas are linked
effortlessly.
Stitt does not employ his usual quotes or
devices at any point on this album, doing the
whole thing fresh – he seems motivated by the
new surroundings, as is Tyner. McCoy’s solo
is closer to usual work, with lots of punchy
chords – still, there’s a ballroom touch he
didn’t use often. In one sense, this isn’t a Bla-
key album: the leader never solos, and rarely
breaks out of mid-tempo. Viewing it another
way, it’s a very typical effort – Art gets a
group sound from disparate personalities, and
turn familiar elements into memorable music.
Art began 1964 by recording the “jazz
version” of a Broadway show, the Sammy
Davis vehicle Golden Boy. While many such
albums were made during the ‘Sixties, this is
Blakey’s only foray in the genre. Written by
Lee Adams and Charles Strouse, authors of
Bye Bye Birdie, the show is best known for
the standard “Yes I Can”; the album featured
an 11-piece Messengers, with tuba, French
horn, and the first-time pairing of Freddie
(Continued on page 35)
“The greatest day in your life and mine is when we take total responsibility for our attitudes.
That’s the day we truly grow up.”
- John Maxwell
Art Blakey, Part 7
“As the Jazz Messengers entered their second decade, stability was replaced by
turbulence. Recording offers declined as the music was changing direction; touring became a larger part of the schedule,
putting further demands on the musicians. Stays in the group became briefer, especially
at saxophone – to no one’s surprise, Wayne Shorter was a hard act to follow.”
35 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
Hubbard and Lee Morgan. (They would reu-
nite on Art’s Soulfinger album, cut on May
12, 1965.) This was Morgan’s first date with
the group after a three-year absence; he would
return to the group, replacing Hubbard, in
March 1964.
Around the same time as Golden Boy, the
regular sextet was making an album at Van
Gelder’s, called Free for All. Recorded on
February 10, the title cut opens with rainfall:
sad chords from Walton, paired with drizzling
cymbals. The horns sink their teeth in the ag-
gressive theme: the prominent voice is Fuller,
his tone at its most rubbery. Wayne’s solo is
first, and wastes no time: in a gritty tone, he
draws curlicues through the active drums.
Swooping noises are next, followed by a
metallic two-note flutter; the other respond in
a simple riff. One chorus is basically a single
held note, blown in the tone – and passion –
of Coltrane. His tone turns warmer by the end
of his solo, with the intensity at its highest;
Fuller tries to follow with a series of long
whoops. It’s actually pretty good … it fails
only in comparison with what came before.
Hubbard tries for a calmer tack, sounding
reserved even as he climbs fast. His lines are
ordered, a precision surprising at this speed –
and now he blows fire, emphatic as he trills at
the top of his range. This is at least as good as
Shorter’s solo, and certainly more melodic.
Art bunches the cymbals on his solo, goes
across the rest of the kit, and band finishes
with relish. Worth the price of admission for
this cut alone, Free for All lives up to its
name.
Lee Morgan returned to the Messengers
lineup in early March, starting with a week at
Shelly’s Manne-Hole. His first new record-
ings with the group came in April, in sessions
for the albums Pisces and Indestructible.
These were made with Wayne Shorter, who
was receiving overtures from Miles Davis; in
late summer he accepted, and played with
Miles at his Hollywood Bowl concert on Sep-
tember 18.
Of his time spent with Blakey, Shorter
would say “The kind of timing I learned with
Art was almost always consistent. Building
your expressions into sort of a climax, ending
your solos on something very worthy of shar-
ing with or being remembered by everyone.
… [B]efore I left, we were starting to stretch
out with the arrangements, trying an extended
kind of thing with three horns in front on
tunes like ‘Mosaic’ and some of the other
things we wrote. But at the time I was getting
calls from Miles so I figured five years, that’s
enough for a cycle.” He had been with the
group longer than any previous saxophonist –
both his sound and compositional style would
influence those who followed.
As the Jazz Messengers entered their sec-
ond decade, stability was replaced by turbu-
lence. Recording offers declined as the music
was changing direction; touring became a
larger part of the schedule, putting further
demands on the musicians. Stays in the group
became briefer, especially at saxophone – to
no one’s surprise, Wayne Shorter was a hard
act to follow. Through 1965 the chair alternat-
ed between the veteran John Gilmore and a
young Gary Bartz: sometimes they’d play
together, for a dynamic resembling the
Griffin/McLean Messengers of ’57.
It was Gilmore who went on a European
tour in late February; a March 7 stop in Lon-
don was filmed at Cine-Tele Studios for the
TV show Jazz 625. Morgan is absolutely on
fire, spraying notes on high as Gilmore lays a
smooth background. He wields a mute on
“Lament for Stacy”, stepping gingerly among
the moody chords. The camerawork is inter-
esting, focusing sometimes on bassist Victor
Sproles, sometimes on Art’s cymbals – then
you see the band at a distance, peeking behind
the wavering discs. Lee’s eyes seem closed
whenever he plays, getting deep into the fab-
ric of the songs – it was one of the last times
he would play for the Messengers.
Morgan left after the group returned to
America, sometime in the summer of 1965.
He too proved difficult to replace: Charles
Tolliver played a few club dates in June, but
the band worked much of the summer without
a trumpet. A solution came via Dizzy Gilles-
pie, who suggested to Art the name of Chuck
Mangione.
A native of Rochester, New York, Man-
gione was not yet 25, but already had impres-
sive credentials: he had recorded four albums
with his group The Jazz Brothers, contributed
a song to the repertoire of Cannonball Adder-
ley (“Something Different”), and did a stint in
Woody Herman’s big band. He was not un-
known to Blakey, having sat in with the group
in its stops through Rochester – Art used this
opportunity for housecleaning, hiring Lonnie
Liston Smith and tenor Frank Mitchell along
with Mangione.
Their first engagement was a week on the
Jazzmobile, a moving trailer that brought jazz
to the streets of New York City. According to
Gary Bartz, Blakey was so occupied bringing
in new talent that he forgot to tell his current
men they had been replaced! “[W]e had come
back to New York from a gig in Cincinnati,
and all that week we were hearing advertise-
ments on the radio for Art Blakey and the Jazz
Messengers at the Jazzmobile. Neither Hicks
[pianist John Hicks] nor I had heard from Bu
about this, but we figured ‘Well, we know
where we’re working’. So we went up there.
We could hear music from all the way down
the block. And there was the Jazzmobile mov-
ing down the street, with Art and a whole new
band!”
Liston Smith was only in the group a few
months, his stay going unrecorded. His re-
placement was a drum student, a former child
prodigy who claimed he hadn’t practiced the
piano since 1960! Keith Jarrett had attended
Berklee for composition; to earn spare cash he
worked the cocktail lounges of Boston, play-
ing his first piano in years. He was scheduled
to study with the renowned Nadia Boulanger
in Paris, but decided against it at the last mo-
ment – before he became a composer, he
wanted to see if he could make it as a musi-
cian.
He went to the Village Vanguard on
Mondays, sitting in with the Jones-Lewis big
band. On one occasion in late 1965, Jarrett
took a ten-minute solo; as he left the stage he
was thanked by two members of the audience
– Tony Scott and Art Blakey. After playing
with Scott a few times, Keith joined the Mes-
sengers, for a period of about four months.
His stay there was turbulent: he offered play-
ing suggestions to the rest of the band, which
they naturally resented. He was seen as aloof
by the other musicians, who thought him dis-
interested when he wasn’t soloing; Art as-
(Continued from page 34)
“Lonnie Liston Smith was only in the group a few months ... His replacement was a drum student, a former child prodigy who claimed
he hadn’t practiced the piano since 1960! Keith Jarrett had attended Berklee ... was
scheduled to study with the renowned Nadia Boulanger but decided against it ... he wanted
to see if he could make it as a musician.”
Art Blakey, Part 7
36 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 June-July 2018 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com
cribed it to Jarrett’s restlessness. “Sometimes
a man has so much talent he would get bored
waiting for the other cats to catch up …[I]t’s
like a kid in school; put him in the wrong
class and he gets bored.”
Jarrett’s only record with the band would
be Buttercorn Lady, recorded at Hermosa
Beach’s Lighthouse on January 1, 1966. It
would be reissued in 1995, retitled Get the
Message. He has fun with “Buttercorn”, spin-
ning a long, funky calypso. As Art feeds him
tom-toms, Keith dances with precise steps –
somewhat clunky at first, his harmonies
broaden when Mangione coos behind him.
“Recuerdo” has one those perfect Mes-
senger Moments: Chuck goes Dizzy-like on
the mute, Mitchell answers with toughness …
and Blakey tuning the toms behind both.
While he had something of Morgan’s touch,
Mangione also shows a warm edge, at times
absent from Lee’s work. In the midst of his
emoting, Chuck sneaks in a quote of “Shadow
of Your Smile”, absolutely perfect for the
surroundings. By this moment alone, Man-
gione proved he belonged in the Messengers;
Wynton Marsalis characterized him as “really
low-key – it wasn’t a step forward, but it was-
n’t a step backward.”
The tune also contains what critic Alan
Goldsher calls the most bizarre Messengers
solo: a dissonant Jarrett, plucking and scrap-
ing piano strings in ways that were common
in classical music (Henry Cowell did it in the
1920’s) but at the time unknown in jazz. Ac-
cording to Mangione, Blakey liked this: “Art
would encourage him by yelling ‘Act like a
fool!’ And Keith did, because Keith is Keith.
He was as unique then as he is now. Similar
discord appears on Chuck’s feature “My Ro-
mance”, where odd triple-time sequences mix
with the sweetest mute you ever heard. If
there was tension between Jarrett and Man-
gione – as apparently there was – it resulted in
beautiful music.
The later Jarrett is heard on “The
Theme”, in a dense sustained cloud of intri-
cately-connected notes. It is simple by his
later standards (in the ‘Seventies he’d do this
sort of thing for 45 minutes straight) but it
certainly shows the direction he was going.
The horn riff behind him is little softer than
normal – they seem to be giving him defer-
ence. Mitchell gets a good turn on “Between
Races”; clearly inspired by Shorter, I also
hear some Rollins in the slower passages. The
bell-like comps provided by Jarrett are won-
derful.
On this session you can hear the roots of
Keith’s greatness, but he was already growing
tired of the Messengers. In the spring of 1966
he was sitting in with Charles Lloyd on his off
-days; he even appeared with Lloyd on a TV
broadcast, made on February 16. This was not
a surprise to the band, some of whom saw
Jarrett as an opportunist – he would join
Lloyd full-time at the beginning of March.
His replacement was Mike Nock, a New
Zealander who supported Yusef Lateef on the
Live at Pep’s albums. His stay lasted about a
month, followed briefly by Lonnie Liston
Smith and then by Chick Corea, fresh off a
stint with Blue Mitchell’s band. One album
was made during his stay, but surprisingly
Chick did not appear on it. As with many jazz
albums in the late ‘Sixties, Hold On, I’m
Coming attempted to reach a pop audience by
covering the hits of the day. Recorded on May
27, the disc included such curiosities as
“Monday, Monday”, “Secret Agent Man”
and, most improbable of all, “Walking My
Cat Named Dog”!
The expanded lineup included two trom-
bones, Garnett Brown and Melba Liston, the
guitar of Grant Green, and the organist Mal-
colm Bass; while not officially a Jazz Messen-
gers session, Corea was the only Messenger
absent. Despite the commercial trappings,
Hold On, I’m Coming sold poorly; the Mes-
sengers would make no studio album for the
next five years. Corea and Mangione left the
group at the end of October; they briefly
formed their own band, which played Roches-
ter until Chick joined Stan Getz. After an un-
successful attempt to rehire Bobby Timmons,
Blakey was able to get McCoy Tyner, right
after he left Coltrane’s group. The trumpets
flew by in quick succession: Bill Hardman for
most of 1967, Randy Brecker at the end of
’68, then followed by Woody Shaw. Many
stars played with Art in this period, including
Buster Williams, Kenny Barron, Joe Hender-
son, George Cables, and Joe Farrell – but,
apart from some bootlegs, no recordings were
made of them. While the Messengers had al-
ways been a live act, this was especially true
in the late ‘Sixties.
Blakey was fond of calling his bandmates
“my youngsters”, but in late 1970, he was
proud to make an exception. After a long ca-
reer in Europe, the bebop legend Don Byas
came back to the United States … and found
himself forgotten. After his appearance at the
Newport Jazz Festival, Byas made the rounds
on the New York club circuit – no one was
interested but Blakey, shocked that this pivot-
al figure was unemployed.
He took Byas on a lengthy tour of Japan;
Don didn’t replace Ramon Morris at tenor, he
joined him, for the first two-tenor lineup in
Messengers history. On top of his horn-work,
Byas acted as sort of a batting coach to the
other players, offering advice and sharing his
experiences. This was partly the reason Art
hired him: “[T]he young guys in the group
took advantage of his experience.” After the
tour, Byas did one gig with the band in New
York before quitting – shortly after this, Bla-
key signed up with the Giants of Jazz, an all-
star tour that circled the world for eighteen
months.
Art Blakey, Part 7
“Blakey was fond of calling his band-mates ‘my youngsters’, but in late 1970,
he was proud to make an exception. After a long career in Europe, the bebop
legend Don Byas came back to the United States … and found himself forgotten.
After his appearance at the Newport Jazz Festival, Byas made the rounds on the
New York club circuit – no one was inter-ested but Blakey … and took Byas on a
lengthy tour of Japan…”
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