In Conversation with There There

There There (Bojana Jankovic and Dana Olarescu) – Eastern Europeans For Dummies, 2011, photo by Partícia Venâncio Oliviera

ThereThere is a Romanian/Serbian performance duo made up of Dana Olarescu and Bojana Jankovic. The pair began collaborating in 2009, during their MA Performance Making at Goldsmiths College. They have created pieces for the Museum of London, Rowan Arts and Giving in to Gift and performed around the UK, including at SPILL National Platform, Experimentica and Rich Mix.

ThereThere aims to analyze ridiculousness and stereotypes linked to British and European society, in particular “immigration, immigrant and national identities”(1). There work grows out of intimate political and social frustrations and explores how social changes and paradigms influence everyday lives and identities. The company’s practice revolves around topics that emerge at the intersection of personal experiences and big-picture policy and politics, including immigration, immigrants’ public identity, exclusion, national identities, institutionalism and heritage. They create pieces that find their form in response to content, resulting in a diverse practice.

Audience development, focused on engagement with immigrant communities, is an essential part of the creative practice. To unpick the overarching, demonising media tactics to scapegoat Eastern European Immigrants Therethere, physically invade the cultural emptiness in British and West European minds. Text HOME to 78070 –a spin-off of their first performative piece – where the two artists walk around the city, sharing with public audience tips on approaching subtle issues; a work permit, foreign integration, and National Health System. The grotesque effect is obtained in the performance of their very appearance, wearing shabby cloths but masks of British politicians

We have invited them to exhibit the promotional poster for their performance Eastern European for Dummies. The performance, initially conceived as a gallery piece confronting the way ‘Eastern Europeans, are exhibited’ (2) This has been adapted and developed, to be seen in as diverse Stoke Newington International Airport, and Rich Mix Theatre space, with each performance taking on a different level and audience. The work offers an ironical perspective on immigration criticism, exploring “simple bland problems of everyday living in UK”. (3)

The image itself, taken by Partícia Venâncio Oliviera, offers a performative dialogue in it’s own right. In particular the dichotomy of the immigrants’ ability to simultaneously steal jobs and claim benefits. It is this power in articulating the dark humour of these misconceptions and bothering of Eastern European communities that attracted us to the piece within Europhonia. We invited them to exhibit to further assert the artifice and dramatic dependency of immigration elements within the official campaign materials. The ability of Therethere to engage and understand both native and migrant audiences gives them a unique position for social commentary through performance making.

Giulia Colletti · Maisie Linford

There There (Bojana Jankovic and Dana Olarescu) – Eastern Europeans For Dummies, 2011, photo by Partícia Venâncio Oliviera

Giulia Colletti: On your website, visitors can read There There is “a 50% Romanian 50% Serbian performance company” founded in London. How and why did you form your partnerships in UK and what is your purpose? ThereThere: We met in 2009, when we both arrived to London to study MA Performance Making at Goldsmiths. Once we graduated, we spent a lot of time trying to figure out what is next – who to work with, what to work on, how to get the work out there. We always knew we had quite a lot in common – we both came to performance from theatre directing, wanting to explore a more collaborative way of working – but in 2010 we also realised our experience of London was quite similar. Over the course of one year, we both individually came to the conclusion that in the UK we were Eastern European more than Romanian and Serbian. We decided to give collaboration a go and make a piece about Eastern European immigrant stereotypes we encountered on daily basis. Several months later we performed the first version of Eastern Europeans for Dummies – at the time it was a short gallery piece, but since then it has grown into an hour long participatory studio performance. In between then and now, we officially formed a performance company, decided upon a quintessentially English name for it, and devised studio shows, interventions, sounds installations and one-on-one pieces that explore immigrant and national identities, exclusion and institutionalism. We also consider audience development a core element of our creative practice – we try to reach out to immigrant, especially Eastern European audiences, and involve them in our process and research. We belong to a demographic that does not traditionally participate in performing arts, so we are trying to change that – give immigrant and British audiences a chance to meet and talk honestly about immigration. As for ‘our purpose’... Purpose may be too big of a word, but most of our work is concerned with uncovering and de-constructing stereotypes and creating an alternative public arena for issues around immigration to be discussed in. The mainstream media (print, TV and otherwise) spends most of its time on bombastic headlines and scary (if inaccurate) statistics; the political discourse is the same. We try to unravel these mechanisms and motivate our audiences to leave the stereotypes behind and have a more nuanced conversation. G.C.: In 2011 you showed for the first time Eastern Europeans for Dummies, which is, as you said, a gallery piece based on the idea of demolishing the east immigrant stereotypes commonly embedded in West Europe. TT.: We made the piece in 2011 – we performed it for the first time at The Others. At the time (as we mentioned) it was a short, 15 minute gallery piece, and our intention was to ‘trash out’ all the stereotypes we encountered and their disenfranchising effect. To that end, we cast ourselves as live exhibits and recorded a David Attenboroughesque audio guide to accompany us, and explain where the dangers lurk from, how to defend yourselves from Eastern Europeans and how to get rid of them for good if you are so inclined. While the piece stemmed from our life experiences, the intention was never to make it autobiographical. Personal histories induce empathy, and our intention was to induce some critical thinking about and around immigration. For the next 2-3 years we performed the piece in London (in galleries like Moca and FreeSpace, Brunel Museum, festivals like All Change etc.), Brighton (at the Basement) and Leeds (as part of (in)Xclusion festival); in total we ventured to around 20

different venues, until we decided it was time to round up the project and call it a day. We moved onto other ideas, but unfortunately the discourse on Eastern European immigrants kept evolving, mostly towards ever more profiling and vilification. Invitations kept coming and we kept getting new ideas for how to change the piece, adjust it to new events and circumstances. In 2014 we went back into the rehearsal room and came back with a 35 minute studio performance, produced by The Bridge for a 3 week run at Rosemary Branch; I n 2016 we were awarded ACE funding to develop it into the hour long participatory show that it is today. The original exhibition – with two authentic Eastern Europeans as the main attraction – is still the core part of the show (as is the original narrator) – but we added fete style games with an immigrant twist to the experience. The core ideas remained the same over the years; what changed is our inclination to involve the audience in the performance. We create a low-key participatory setting, centred around fete games, to induce a discussion on the prevalent stereotypes. We also work very hard to ensure our audiences are diverse, and that the performance is inclusive towards immigrant and British communities. There are so few places in the public realm for integrated discussions on immigration; most happen in absentia of actual immigrants. That’s what we are trying to create – all with a healthy dose of sarcasm and self-deprecation. G.C.: In Postmodern ethics, Bauman introduces the idea of ‘stranger next door’ (1), who was allowed in the past to cross the border of physical proximity by three different ways: as an enemy, as a temporary host be confined to ghetto, or as a potential equal, only undergoing local rules. In our apparently modern and unified Europe, who is now considered the stranger? TT.: What’s most interesting about the referendum is how we are desperately trying to keep Britain in Europe, while knowing that the European Union has long lost its ethos and values. However, we will forever argue that the collective is stronger than the individual, that Britain is Great due to its multi-culturality and that away from the Union, it will lose its most important assets. In this particular case, the stranger next door is no one but the immigrant population thought to ‘flood’ the country and create chaos, ironically, all those people who help keep Britain be diverse. It is in many ways, a reverse of Colonialism. Instead of Britain invading foreign lands and acquiring goods, Britain is being ‘occupied’ by foreign bodies. Though this time around, no one is stealing a country’s individuality or identity. One of those strangers has recently (at least in the last 7-8 years) been considered to be the Eastern European population. The politicians have brainwashed the masses by turning them into scapegoats. Whatever the danger and fear, the Eastern Europeans will be the cause. If the economy is in danger, if jobs are precarious or if crime rates go up, the politicians and the media blame the Eastern Europeans. Particularly, the Polish, Romanians and Bulgarians are the targets of most unfounded racism, consequently becoming the birds of prey for any uninformed tabloid reader who will believe the dangerous lies. As fellow Eastern Europeans living in London, we have felt the repercussions in our day to day lives. From being accused of stealing jobs to stealing Arts Council funding, being Eastern European is no different to wearing a scarlet letter. The ridiculous escalates when people are blamed for destroying the country when in turn, zero efforts are being made with regard to the integration of these

trangers. Instead, they get exploited in minimum wage jobs; they remain in isolation, in small groups that do not receive any kind of support, especially in turn for paying taxes and building the economy. That is why we make it our mission to speak to these communities through our shows, to attempt to get to them and understand what their needs are (cultural needs, because that is what we can offer) and continue to fight for their/our integration. However, what adds to the equation is that every year, with every crisis, the one being blamed will change, constantly making way for a new enemy. The Syrian refugees have become other strangers next door, who instil fear into the population, even though the number accepted by the UK is so little it could not even make up a small town. It is not so much about who these people are anymore, but what we can do, as artists, in order to maintain the diversity and protect the new elements that each group brings in. Maisie Linford: What do you think the impact of Britain leaving the EU could be to artists in general? TT.: We were in Cardiff last weekend (May 2016), with a section of Eastern Europeans for Dummies that consists of games that people can play. They are ironic takes on traditional fete games (hook-a-duck turned hook-a-job, guess the weight turned guess the burden of the Eastern Europeans in the UK etc.) and we aimed to engage the Welsh visitors in games and conversation about the UK Referendum. We only started making work about being Eastern European when we moved to the UK, because it became our day to day reality. Our work in our respective countries was far removed from dealing with identities in a foreign land simply due to the fact that those weren’t the circumstances. During the seven hours of constant interaction, we were stunned by the variety of attitudes towards the referendum. Most were stayers due to cultural reasons, some were goers due to ‘undisclosed reasons’ and there were several undecided as well, floating in ambivalence towards the entire voting system. What really surprises us, in general, when we interact with people in this way, is how little they seem to understand that culture and art arise through mobility, meetings and interactions. When artists relocate, they automatically take their culture and heritage with them, and make work through their perspective, whether they consciously realise it or not. By being part of the EU, Britain has made it possible for these meetings to exist, for foreign artists to either temporarily work here or for British artists to travel and work elsewhere, thus leaving their comfort zones and being faced with understanding what nationality means in the greater picture. If Britain left the EU, this exchange wouldn’t be possible anymore. The meeting of cultures and histories would suddenly cease, artists who have been here for a short/long while but who are not British citizens, would have to relocate and start again. Imagine the British art world without the intercultural buzz not to mention trade and employment issue and cultural cooperation. EU funds would cease, grants for travelling in the EU would disappear too. It’s quite apocalyptic that it came to this, to the idea that the change the Britain has undergone in the last few decades would simply vanish overnight. (1) https://goo.gl/pkMIm6 (2) Ibid. (3) Bauman, Z. (1993). Postmodern ethics. Oxford, Blackwell

Note: This interview is an excerpt from an art catalogue made in the frame of EUROPHONIA Pop-up Exhibition. EUROPHONIA is a curatorial project by Giulia Colletti and Maisie Linford, documenting and highlighting the voices and images of the 2016 referendum, when Britain decides to stay in or leave the European Union. Check it more >> europhoniapopup.tumblr.com >> www.therethere.eu