former judge aponte: vice-president manages justice in venezuela

8/2/2019 Former judge Aponte: Vice-President manages justice in Venezuela

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SOi TV 2012

00:00:01:16 00:00:05:09 THE SECRET STORIES

OF A JUDGE IN VENEZUELA

00:00:06:03 00:00:08:11 A Venezuelan

Supreme Court justice,

00:00:08:13 00:00:11:08 former President

of the Criminal Appellate Court,

00:00:11:10 00:00:15:12 is linked to drug trafficking

activities and then dismissed.

00:00:15:14 00:00:19:09 But instead of appearing

before the National Assembly,

00:00:19:11 00:00:21:04 he fled the country.

00:00:21:06 00:00:23:23 Now the judge

fears being prosecuted

00:00:23:25 00:00:26:00 by the Venezuelan

justice system.

00:00:26:02 00:00:30:00 Justice Eladio Aponte Aponte

has decided to come forward

00:00:30:02 00:00:32:09 and these are his revelations.

00:00:33:04 00:00:36:19 We're having this conversation

outside Venezuela.00:00:36:21 00:00:38:11 The Ethics Committee,

00:00:38:13 00:00:41:05 and the National Assembly's

special commission

00:00:41:07 00:00:44:09 issued reports about you,

and unanimously decided

00:00:44:11 00:00:48:01 to dismiss you at a meeting

of the National Assembly,

00:00:48:03 00:00:51:22 due to your links

with an alleged drug lord,

00:00:51:24 00:00:52:29 Walid Makled.

00:00:53:10 00:00:57:02 You're now out of the country.

Why did you leave?

00:00:57:04 00:01:00:29 I left the country

firstly to clear my head

00:01:02:28 00:01:05:11 from such a traumatic event

00:01:05:20 00:01:08:06 as being accused of something

00:01:09:19 00:01:12:20 I had absolutely nothing

to do with.

00:01:16:11 00:01:18:27 And that literally forced me

00:01:18:29 00:01:22:14 to clear my mind,

get a change of atmosphere,

00:01:22:25 00:01:24:16 to organize my ideas.

00:01:26:17 00:01:28:03 And I did that in order...

00:01:29:18 00:01:31:17 ...to get some sort of relief

00:01:31:19 00:01:35:02 from the situation

I found myself involved in

00:01:35:04 00:01:37:21 because of those allegations00:01:39:12 00:01:42:18 which I was accused of

so cunningly,

00:01:43:08 00:01:45:00 and with such malice.

00:01:46:26 00:01:49:10 And based entirely on hearsay.

00:01:50:13 00:01:51:15 And nobody,

00:01:52:26 00:01:54:05 on either side,

00:01:54:26 00:01:57:19 decided to investigate,

to make inquiries,

00:01:57:21 00:02:00:15 as to whether


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SOi TV 2012

there was any truth to them.

00:02:00:17 00:02:03:21 What's your relationship

with Walid Makled?

00:02:03:23 00:02:04:28 Do you know him?

00:02:05:00 00:02:07:11 I do know him.

I've never denied it.

00:02:07:13 00:02:10:15 I'm from Valencia,

and he used to live there.

00:02:10:17 00:02:12:00 Where did you meet him?

00:02:12:02 00:02:13:02 In Valencia.

00:02:13:04 00:02:17:17 During the Oil Industry strike

of 2002, if I'm not mistaken,

00:02:17:19 00:02:20:02 he was a big shot

in the State of Carabobo.

00:02:20:19 00:02:23:06 He was given

the red carpet treatment

00:02:23:08 00:02:25:07 by government officials.

00:02:25:17 00:02:27:06 He was one of the guys

00:02:27:08 00:02:30:07 that allegedly

helped in the reactivation00:02:30:09 00:02:34:02 of the refineries

and the country's food supply.

00:02:35:18 00:02:39:06 So this guy was a real big shot

back then.

00:02:39:08 00:02:42:28 They planted 400 kilos

of drugs on us in Venezuela.

00:02:43:09 00:02:44:28 I ask for justice!

00:02:46:01 00:02:47:18 Is that why you issued

00:02:47:20 00:02:50:09 his military prosecutor

credentials?

00:02:50:11 00:02:53:07 I don't remember

whether I signed it.

00:02:53:09 00:02:56:26 I signed a lot of credentials

as Chief Military Prosecutor.

00:02:56:28 00:02:59:21 But as soon as I left

that position,

00:02:59:23 00:03:02:29 an announcement was made

through the national press

00:03:03:01 00:03:05:22 that all of those credentials

were revoked.

00:03:05:24 00:03:08:06 And anybody

holding such credentials

00:03:08:08 00:03:10:06 was asked to turn them in.

00:03:10:26 00:03:13:07 You don't remember

if you gave it to him or not?

00:03:13:09 00:03:15:20 No, I signed lots

of credentials.00:03:15:22 00:03:16:26 Maybe I did.

00:03:16:28 00:03:20:05 I can't say I did or didn't,

I have to be responsible.

00:03:20:07 00:03:22:24 But I did sign

a huge number of credentials.

00:03:22:26 00:03:25:00 Who authorized

those credentials?

00:03:25:02 00:03:28:16 Who were issued

Military prosecutor cards?


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SOi TV 2012

00:03:28:18 00:03:30:16 Who benefited from them?

00:03:30:18 00:03:34:28 They were issued to people

you considered your friends.

00:03:37:13 00:03:40:24 A friend, or a friend

of a government official

00:03:40:26 00:03:42:27 that vouched for them,

00:03:43:13 00:03:45:12 and they were issued

00:03:45:14 00:03:48:24 but they didn't give the holder

any kind of authority.

00:03:48:26 00:03:50:26 As far as you can remember,

00:03:50:28 00:03:53:22 who were the officials

that asked you for them?

00:03:53:24 00:03:56:01 The prosecutors

that worked for me.

00:03:56:03 00:03:59:10 Others that worked elsewhere.

A few friends.

00:04:01:12 00:04:03:05 You've left the country.

00:04:03:07 00:04:05:22 Are you going back

to Venezuela?

00:04:05:24 00:04:09:15 Yes, I plan to go backand face the charges,

00:04:09:17 00:04:11:03 to clear my name,

00:04:11:05 00:04:13:03 my reputation and dignity,

00:04:13:05 00:04:15:23 and not just mine,

but my family's.

00:04:15:25 00:04:18:18 Regarding the reasons

for your dismissal,

00:04:18:20 00:04:22:10 according to the National

Assembly's special commission

00:04:22:12 00:04:25:29 that studied your case,

there is the alleged issuing

00:04:26:01 00:04:28:09 of a government

commissioner card

00:04:28:11 00:04:31:18 to the alleged drug lord

and secondly,

00:04:31:20 00:04:36:05 they claim you invited him

to your daughter's wedding.

00:04:36:07 00:04:37:21 Did you do that?

00:04:38:03 00:04:41:14 On the list

that my daughter prepared,

00:04:43:24 00:04:46:02 the gentleman was included.

00:04:46:18 00:04:48:23 But we didn't have any idea

00:04:48:25 00:04:52:00 of the activities

of this gentleman.

00:04:52:16 00:04:56:02 We only knew him

as a reputable businessman,

00:04:56:04 00:04:59:22 a very successfuland well-known businessman.

00:05:00:19 00:05:02:13 Is it true that Mr. Makled

00:05:02:15 00:05:04:29 sent you several

thank-you notes?

00:05:06:00 00:05:07:04 On whose behalf?

00:05:07:06 00:05:09:29 For your assistance

in Carabobo State. True?

00:05:10:01 00:05:14:03 Yes, it's true, I saw a note

that I don't have here with me,


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SOi TV 2012

00:05:14:05 00:05:17:27 signed by the President,

congratulating Mr. Makled

00:05:21:18 00:05:24:25 for his work

in support of the revolution,

00:05:24:27 00:05:29:29 and the revolutionary movement

President Chavez is leading.

00:05:33:14 00:05:36:24 SECRET STORIES


00:05:47:21 00:05:51:04 SECRET STORIES


00:05:52:13 00:05:54:03 PALACE OF JUSTICE

00:06:03:01 00:06:05:29 How does the justice system

work in Venezuela?

00:06:07:09 00:06:09:22 Well I am part

of the justice system,

00:06:09:24 00:06:13:26 or was a part, rather,

and an important member of it.

00:06:14:17 00:06:19:08 And maybe many of the things

that affected the justice system

00:06:19:10 00:06:22:08 were doneunder my responsibility.

00:06:24:08 00:06:26:19 But as soon as I saw myself

00:06:27:26 00:06:30:18 being judged

on the same standards

00:06:30:20 00:06:33:09 or the same criteria

as all the others,

00:06:33:11 00:06:36:08 I decided

it was not the justice

00:06:37:03 00:06:38:20 that's so proclaimed,

00:06:38:22 00:06:40:21 not the kind of justice we need,

00:06:40:23 00:06:43:07 not justice

according to the constitution.

00:06:43:09 00:06:45:28 Did you ever receive

a telephone call

00:06:46:00 00:06:47:27 from a government official

00:06:47:29 00:06:49:04 of any rank,

00:06:49:06 00:06:54:02 asking you to tamper with

the Venezuelan justice system?

00:06:54:21 00:06:57:08 Yes, from the President

downwards.

00:06:57:16 00:07:00:29 This judge deserves

the maximum sentence.

00:07:01:01 00:07:02:29 Thirty years in jail.

00:07:03:22 00:07:08:05 In the case of the President,

did he speak directly with you?

00:07:08:07 00:07:10:20 -Directly with me.

-He telephoned you?00:07:10:22 00:07:12:11 -Yes he did.

-What for?

00:07:12:13 00:07:16:14 Mainly regarding the case of

the paramilitary officers in...

00:07:20:28 00:07:22:04 in El Hatillo.

00:07:22:25 00:07:25:03 The so-called

Paracachitos case?

00:07:25:05 00:07:27:03 They called it that too.

00:07:28:00 00:07:29:25 Why did he phone you?


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SOi TV 2012

00:07:29:27 00:07:31:12 Well so I would...

00:07:31:14 00:07:34:19 So I would carry out

the investigation

00:07:34:21 00:07:38:15 in a way that was convenient

for the government.

00:07:38:17 00:07:41:01 Exactly what was

the President's request?

00:07:41:27 00:07:45:16 I really think,

from my own point of view,

00:07:45:18 00:07:49:08 that regarding

these paramilitary officers

00:07:49:10 00:07:52:04 I had my doubts

as to who they were.

00:07:52:12 00:07:55:09 Because they were

inexperienced young men,

00:07:55:11 00:07:58:05 some of whom

couldn't handle a weapon.

00:07:58:15 00:08:01:10 Some of them

didn't know what was going on,

00:08:01:12 00:08:05:08 and by mere chancetheir buses were detained

00:08:08:01 00:08:11:01 by a Metropolitan Police

car.

00:08:12:27 00:08:15:27 How did they get there

from Colombia?

00:08:15:29 00:08:17:27 Why were they taken there?

00:08:18:24 00:08:20:24 Was this case fabricated?

00:08:21:06 00:08:23:22 After everything I've seen,

00:08:24:06 00:08:26:18 I wouldn't doubt it at all

at this point.

00:08:28:05 00:08:30:09 You think the case was fabricated.

00:08:30:11 00:08:33:04 President Chavez

phoned you about the case.

00:08:33:06 00:08:35:28 -Yes he did.

-But what did he ask you to do?

00:08:36:00 00:08:37:19 Like I already said,

00:08:37:21 00:08:41:03 he wanted the investigation

to conclude that

00:08:41:05 00:08:44:07 they were plotting

against the government,

00:08:44:09 00:08:47:26 and he wanted us to prove

that was what happened.

00:08:48:12 00:08:50:09 Apart from President Chavez,

00:08:50:11 00:08:54:23 what was your relationship

with other government officials?

00:08:54:25 00:08:57:16 The Public Minister,

the Prosecutor General,00:08:57:18 00:08:59:21 Luisa Ortega,

Luisa Estella Morales?

00:08:59:23 00:09:03:04 Did you also receive calls from them

to intervene in certain rulings?

00:09:03:06 00:09:06:07 Luisa Ortega telephoned me

more than once.

00:09:06:09 00:09:09:03 Luisa Estella Morales

phoned me lots of times.

00:09:09:05 00:09:10:28 What did they tell you?


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SOi TV 2012

00:09:11:00 00:09:14:05 When charges were about

to be filed against someone,

00:09:14:07 00:09:15:28 or they were to be detained,

00:09:16:00 00:09:18:14 or a search warrant

was about to be issued,

00:09:18:16 00:09:21:00 they told me to orchestrate

the whole thing,

00:09:21:02 00:09:23:21 and look for the right judge

00:09:24:19 00:09:27:13 to do whatever

was needed to be done.

00:09:27:28 00:09:30:14 To manipulate acase,

in other words.

00:09:30:16 00:09:31:27 Yes, more than one.

00:09:31:29 00:09:35:29 What cases did Luisa Estella

tamper with that you recall?

00:09:36:01 00:09:37:11 A lot of cases.

00:09:37:29 00:09:40:13 The only case I recall

at this time

00:09:40:15 00:09:43:18 is a Representative from Maracaibo

called "Mazuco".00:09:44:00 00:09:45:06 What happened?

00:09:45:18 00:09:47:20 The case was handled like this.

00:09:48:18 00:09:51:10 They got a convicted prisoner,

00:09:51:12 00:09:55:03 they put a hood on him,

and put him on the witness stand

00:09:55:05 00:09:59:00 to say that the defendant

had somebody killed.

00:09:59:02 00:10:01:27 What did the President

of the Supreme Court want?

00:10:01:29 00:10:03:26 -Precisely that.

-What?

00:10:04:05 00:10:06:04 For me to endorse it.

00:10:07:27 00:10:09:27 To endorse his statement,

00:10:09:29 00:10:12:13 and the man was paid

with his freedom.

00:10:12:15 00:10:14:12 Why are you

coming forward now?

00:10:14:14 00:10:17:02 Why am I coming forward now?

00:10:21:09 00:10:24:10 I know that in Venezuela,

because of this,

00:10:24:26 00:10:27:12 I will be called a traitor.

00:10:28:21 00:10:29:18 So be it.

00:10:30:06 00:10:31:21 But I was vilely...

00:10:34:01 00:10:34:28 ...betrayed.

00:10:36:08 00:10:38:12 I was vilely humiliated.

00:10:40:00 00:10:42:02 I was vilely manipulated.

00:10:44:19 00:10:47:17 Who betrayed you?Who manipulated you and why?

00:10:47:19 00:10:49:21 And why did you let them?

00:10:50:12 00:10:52:26 Because I believed

in the revolution.

00:10:52:28 00:10:56:00 What do you mean

by you were betrayed?

00:10:56:17 00:10:59:12 Look at what happened

in the National Assembly,

00:10:59:14 00:11:03:17 in the Ethics Committee


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SOi TV 2012

that produced a verdict

00:11:04:04 00:11:05:01 without...

00:11:07:22 00:11:10:00 Without properly researching,

00:11:10:02 00:11:12:25 without analyzing

the arguments I gave them.

00:11:12:27 00:11:16:08 Instead I saw the case

falling down a chute.

00:11:16:10 00:11:18:12 That that was the decision,

00:11:18:14 00:11:21:13 then I would be put before

the National Assembly

00:11:21:15 00:11:23:12 so they could have my head.

00:11:24:02 00:11:26:16 What do you think

happened between you

00:11:26:18 00:11:29:03 and high-ranking

government officials,

00:11:29:05 00:11:32:11 to end such a direct

kind of relationship you had?

00:11:32:13 00:11:34:10 That trust they had in you,

00:11:34:12 00:11:37:14 to even ask you

for favors as a judge?00:11:37:29 00:11:39:17 I really don't know.

00:11:41:04 00:11:43:21 Was the Makled case,

or some other case?

00:11:43:23 00:11:44:29 I don't know.

00:11:45:10 00:11:47:25 I suppose it could've been

other cases.

00:11:47:27 00:11:52:03 Maybe cases with which

I didn't agree to cooperate.

00:11:52:05 00:11:54:04 Or I just turned a deaf ear to.

00:11:55:05 00:11:57:08 I can't remember right now,

00:11:58:25 00:12:02:29 but I think the Makled case

was exactly what they needed.

00:12:08:13 00:12:11:16 To destroy my reputation

and my good name.

00:12:12:03 00:12:14:18 You're not just any lawyer,

00:12:14:20 00:12:18:03 you were President

of the Criminal Appellate Court.

00:12:18:05 00:12:19:05 Yes ma'am.

00:12:19:13 00:12:21:28 When you say

you were manipulated,

00:12:22:00 00:12:25:18 I'd like you to be more specific

regarding the modus operandi.

00:12:25:20 00:12:29:24 How did they phone you?

Give us some more details.

00:12:30:08 00:12:33:24 For what reason?

Ideological, financial reasons?

00:12:33:26 00:12:35:15 Were you ever paid?00:12:35:24 00:12:37:06 Apart from you,

00:12:37:08 00:12:39:08 were any of the authorities

00:12:39:10 00:12:41:20 that requested these favors

ever paid?

00:12:41:22 00:12:45:27 I have no idea whether

they were ever paid any money.

00:12:45:29 00:12:49:12 They just asked for favors

that I complied with.

00:12:50:02 00:12:54:08 And woe be the judge


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SOi TV 2012

that refused to cooperate.

00:12:54:10 00:12:57:09 -What happened to them?

-They were dismissed.

00:12:57:11 00:12:59:06 How many judges

did you dismiss?

00:12:59:08 00:13:02:26 The Judicial Committee did that.

But many of them were.

00:13:02:28 00:13:06:02 Did you agree to have more than one

judge being dismissed?

00:13:06:04 00:13:08:04 -Yes I did.

-Why did you?

00:13:08:06 00:13:10:29 I was a member

of the Judicial Committee.

00:13:12:20 00:13:14:19 But why were they dismissed?

00:13:14:21 00:13:17:06 Simply for not carrying out

your orders?

00:13:17:08 00:13:19:08 Not just because of an order,

00:13:19:10 00:13:21:28 because I didn't give

the order directly,

00:13:22:00 00:13:25:10 she did, the Presidentof the Supreme Court directly.

00:13:25:12 00:13:29:12 Lots of times the prosecutors

gave the order directly.

00:13:30:18 00:13:34:12 There's a prosecutor

by the last name of Castillo,

00:13:34:14 00:13:37:27 who phones the justices

himself directly.

00:13:39:10 00:13:41:18 And he's even threatened them.

00:13:42:01 00:13:45:08 What's the relationship

with the Prosecutor General?

00:13:45:10 00:13:47:06 Tell us some more about that.

00:13:47:08 00:13:49:28 Off the record,

some say that in Venezuela

00:13:50:00 00:13:53:16 there's a group of favorites

of the Prosecutor General,

00:13:53:18 00:13:56:18 and that the kind of situation

you're reporting,

00:13:56:20 00:13:59:15 of alleged extortion

is going on in Venezuela.

00:13:59:17 00:14:02:00 What do you know about that?

00:14:02:02 00:14:05:09 Yes it is true

there was a group of favorites,

00:14:05:11 00:14:08:17 the same people

that phoned the judges.

00:14:08:28 00:14:11:00 I think Castillo, Meja,

00:14:12:22 00:14:14:14 they phoned the judges,

00:14:14:16 00:14:17:23 and if the judgesrefused to cooperate,

00:14:18:13 00:14:21:25 they threatened

to have them dismissed.

00:14:23:07 00:14:25:17 Or to have them disbarred

or something.

00:14:26:15 00:14:29:09 Why were they meddling

with the judiciary?

00:14:29:11 00:14:31:13 Why would prosecutors

do that?


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SOi TV 2012

00:14:31:15 00:14:33:25 The President

of the Supreme Court

00:14:33:27 00:14:37:00 and the Prosecutor General

worked together.

00:14:37:02 00:14:39:28 Were they bribed?

Did they extort clients?

00:14:40:00 00:14:41:27 What do you know about that?

00:14:41:29 00:14:44:11 I think they are guilty

of extortion,

00:14:44:13 00:14:46:08 especially against bankers.

00:14:46:10 00:14:49:21 Because something very funny

happened in their case.

00:14:49:23 00:14:53:04 The big bankers,

the owners of the banks,

00:14:53:06 00:14:54:21 left the country,

00:14:54:23 00:14:57:20 and only a few

stayed in the country.

00:14:57:29 00:15:01:19 And only second and third-rate

staff members were caught.

00:15:01:21 00:15:04:01 Those are the ones they jailed.00:15:04:03 00:15:05:15 Some six years ago,

00:15:05:17 00:15:08:24 another justice,

Luis Velzquez Alvaray,

00:15:08:26 00:15:10:29 made a very serious accusation

00:15:11:01 00:15:14:13 and Venezuelans still don't know

what was done about it.

00:15:14:15 00:15:16:10 He talked about an alleged

00:15:16:12 00:15:18:28 Banda de los Enanos

within the judiciary.

00:15:19:00 00:15:21:02 And about how drug trafficking

00:15:21:04 00:15:24:11 had penetrated the judiciary

and reached many judges.

00:15:24:13 00:15:27:25 Now that you just got out,

what do you know about this?

00:15:27:27 00:15:32:03 Well yes, even just recently,

these so-called Enanos,

00:15:33:20 00:15:35:28 and everybody knows

who they are,

00:15:36:00 00:15:38:25 have been working

with the Prosecutor General.

00:15:40:03 00:15:43:25 -They work with her?

-With the Prosecutor General.

00:15:44:15 00:15:46:01 How does that work?

00:15:46:26 00:15:48:24 They have their arrangement.

00:15:48:26 00:15:51:21 The Prosecutors

do whatever they're told to do.

00:15:53:00 00:15:56:14 In other words,if they need a legal favor?

00:15:56:16 00:15:59:08 Are they paid?

How does that work?

00:15:59:10 00:16:03:16 I don't know what negotiations

are done on the outside.

00:16:05:23 00:16:09:00 I only saw what was going on

on the inside.

00:16:09:09 00:16:12:19 That's where the Prosecutor's

requests are handled.


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SOi TV 2012

00:16:13:18 00:16:15:23 Does that mean

that in Venezuela

00:16:15:25 00:16:18:23 legal procedures

and rulings have a price?

00:16:20:05 00:16:21:22 In some cases they do.

00:16:22:15 00:16:25:25 So can justice be bought

in Venezuela with money?

00:16:25:27 00:16:29:02 -Perhaps.

-What do you mean by perhaps?

00:16:29:04 00:16:31:09 Well yes.

In some cases it's been done.

00:16:31:11 00:16:34:27 The judiciary

is not an autonomous entity.

00:16:35:24 00:16:38:23 In other words,

it's not a separate power.

00:16:39:04 00:16:40:14 That's a fallacy.

00:16:42:04 00:16:43:22 And I'll tell you why.

00:16:44:11 00:16:47:29 Every weekend,

particularly on Friday mornings,

00:16:48:23 00:16:50:06 there's a meeting00:16:51:13 00:16:54:27 in the country's

Vice President's office,

00:16:56:12 00:16:58:06 with the Vice President,

00:16:59:13 00:17:00:26 who is the person

00:17:02:11 00:17:05:02 that administrates justice

in Venezuela,

00:17:06:00 00:17:08:20 with the President

of the Supreme Court,

00:17:08:22 00:17:10:24 with the Prosecutor General,

00:17:11:12 00:17:13:02 with the President

00:17:13:26 00:17:15:21 of the National Assembly.

00:17:16:18 00:17:18:21 With the Attorney General.

00:17:19:25 00:17:22:07 With the Comptroller General.

00:17:23:02 00:17:24:16 And once in a while,

00:17:27:13 00:17:28:19 with some of the...

00:17:29:20 00:17:31:06 ...chiefs of police.

00:17:32:22 00:17:33:28 That is where

00:17:35:02 00:17:37:23 the directives

of the justice system come from.

00:17:39:18 00:17:40:25 In other words,

00:17:41:07 00:17:44:07 the guidelines on how justice

is to be administered.

00:17:44:09 00:17:46:27 Have you ever been

to one of those meetings?

00:17:46:29 00:17:48:22 I've been to several.

00:17:48:24 00:17:52:23 Every Saturday

in the Vice President's office?00:17:52:25 00:17:55:23 -No, on Fridays.

-In the Vice President's office?

00:17:57:14 00:18:01:13 How does that affect

the separation of powers?

00:18:01:15 00:18:03:21 I don't think it exists.

00:18:03:23 00:18:05:26 What is discussed

at those meetings?

00:18:05:28 00:18:11:11 About what cases are pending.

What course of action to follow.


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00:18:11:13 00:18:13:21 They decide

what guidelines to follow,

00:18:13:23 00:18:16:00 depending on

the political climate.

00:18:16:11 00:18:18:24 First you were

Chief Military Prosecutor.

00:18:18:26 00:18:21:03 What did you do

to get promoted

00:18:21:05 00:18:23:25 later on to the Supreme Court?

00:18:24:04 00:18:27:11 What was that emblematic case

in your opinion,

00:18:27:13 00:18:31:23 that got you all the way up

to the Presidency of that court?

00:18:31:25 00:18:34:15 I think I had

a very clean record,

00:18:34:17 00:18:38:22 and I complied with

the position's requirements.

00:18:38:24 00:18:40:25 Apart from my experience.

00:18:41:17 00:18:44:21 By a clean record

you mean loyal to the President.00:18:44:23 00:18:46:22 Yes, loyal to the government.

00:18:46:24 00:18:49:07 But not loyal

to the Constitution.

00:18:51:11 00:18:53:08 You're right, that's true.

00:18:56:11 00:18:59:20 SECRET STORIES


00:19:11:13 00:19:14:27 SECRET STORIES


00:19:26:19 00:19:29:03 The Venezuelan media

have recently reported

00:19:29:05 00:19:32:13 that the US government

might be interested in you,

00:19:32:15 00:19:34:17 because you could have proof

00:19:34:19 00:19:37:02 of high-ranking

government officials

00:19:37:04 00:19:40:07 being linked to terrorism

and drug trafficking.

00:19:40:09 00:19:41:16 Is that true?

00:19:41:18 00:19:44:09 So many things

have been said about me,

00:19:44:11 00:19:46:05 that I don't doubt it.

00:19:47:26 00:19:51:02 But do you have proof

that high-ranking officials

00:19:51:04 00:19:53:10 might be involved

in drug trafficking?

00:19:53:12 00:19:56:19 I was part

of the Criminal Division of the Venezuelan SupremeCourt

00:19:56:21 00:19:57:28 for seven years.

00:19:58:00 00:20:00:15 Therefore I handled

a lot of information.

00:20:00:17 00:20:02:05 I repeat the question.

00:20:02:07 00:20:05:13 Do you have proof

that high-ranking officials

00:20:05:15 00:20:08:09 might be involved



12/23

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00:20:08:11 00:20:11:29 As I said, I handled,

and handle a lot of information.

00:20:12:01 00:20:13:07 -Yes or no?

-Yes.

00:20:13:20 00:20:14:25 Who are they?

00:20:14:27 00:20:18:13 I'd have to think about it,

about who they are.

00:20:18:25 00:20:21:11 But telling you their names

just like that,

00:20:21:13 00:20:25:19 I don't think it's convenient

for the time being.

00:20:25:28 00:20:28:10 According to some reports

in the USA,

00:20:28:12 00:20:31:13 you might be cooperating

with some drug lords

00:20:31:15 00:20:34:12 apart from the Walid Makled case,

is that true?

00:20:34:14 00:20:35:29 That's not true.

00:20:36:12 00:20:37:26 The only person,

00:20:39:00 00:20:41:00 and I'm going to say this00:20:41:25 00:20:43:08 to defend myself,

00:20:44:00 00:20:47:07 involved in drug trafficking

that I ever met,

00:20:47:09 00:20:48:15 was Mr. Makled.

00:20:49:09 00:20:52:05 And I had no knowledge

of his dealings.

00:20:54:17 00:20:56:06 His business deals.

00:20:56:08 00:20:57:24 Big business deals.

00:20:57:26 00:20:59:00 I had no idea.

00:20:59:11 00:21:02:14 And I really had

very little contact with him.

00:21:02:26 00:21:05:20 And the government

credential

00:21:05:22 00:21:07:19 I'm accused of issuing him

00:21:07:21 00:21:10:15 as Head of Security

of Justice Aponte Aponte,

00:21:10:17 00:21:12:11 that credential was not signed by me.

00:21:12:13 00:21:15:19 But he claims

you were on his payroll.

00:21:16:03 00:21:18:29 Well, where is it?

That's what he says.

00:21:19:20 00:21:21:28 Maybe I never got the money.

00:21:22:17 00:21:25:28 -You never received money from Walid Makled?

-Never.

00:21:26:00 00:21:29:08 -Never received money from a drug lord?

-Never.

00:21:29:10 00:21:32:03 I never did anythingto favor the drug lords.

00:21:32:05 00:21:34:09 There's just one case

I remember.

00:21:34:11 00:21:35:13 Which one?

00:21:35:15 00:21:37:17 The case of Major Magino,

00:21:38:07 00:21:41:09 and a lieutenant,

I don't remember his name,

00:21:41:11 00:21:43:28 was arrested in Carora, I think,

00:21:45:00 00:21:46:23 with a stash of cocaine.


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00:21:47:21 00:21:50:08 He was Major Magino's

subordinate.

00:21:51:16 00:21:54:01 The drugs were found

in his possession,

00:21:54:03 00:21:57:12 and then Magino himself

telephoned me.

00:21:58:14 00:22:01:19 Even the President

asked me to help him.

00:22:01:21 00:22:03:09 Who is this Mr. Magino?

00:22:03:11 00:22:06:07 A Major who was later

promoted to General,

00:22:06:09 00:22:08:19 to Colonel or General,

I'm not sure,

00:22:08:21 00:22:10:07 then he was appointed...

00:22:13:22 00:22:16:09 ...as military attach

in Brazil I think.

00:22:16:11 00:22:18:19 Is he involved


00:22:18:21 00:22:21:20 The lieutenant

was caught carrying the stash00:22:21:22 00:22:24:03 to the battalion

Magino was in charge of.

00:22:24:05 00:22:26:11 The lieutenant

was carrying the stash?

00:22:26:13 00:22:27:25 -Yes.

-To his battalion?

00:22:27:27 00:22:28:25 Yes.

00:22:28:27 00:22:32:10 How were you involved?

How did you help him?

00:22:32:12 00:22:35:13 I helped him

by granting him an injunction.

00:22:38:06 00:22:40:10 But he wasn't released.

00:22:41:02 00:22:45:16 Who ordered you to do that?

Or was it your decision?

00:22:45:27 00:22:50:07 No, I got phone calls even from

the President's office.

00:22:50:19 00:22:52:27 -But in that case...

-In that case.

00:22:52:29 00:22:55:22 -Who phoned you?

-The President's office.

00:22:55:24 00:22:57:26 Who in the President's office?

00:22:57:28 00:22:58:25 It was...

00:23:00:25 00:23:04:03 ...one of the secretaries

closest to the President.

00:23:04:21 00:23:06:20 I think it was Morales.

00:23:07:24 00:23:10:23 So you're saying

that one of Chavez's friends00:23:10:25 00:23:13:15 asked you to help

a drug trafficker.

00:23:13:17 00:23:15:20 -Yes.

-In an alleged drug case?

00:23:15:22 00:23:18:13 The Minister of Defense

phoned me.

00:23:18:15 00:23:20:10 It was Baduel back then.

00:23:20:12 00:23:22:09 Rangel Silva phoned me.

00:23:23:16 00:23:25:19 General Carvajal phoned me.


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SOi TV 2012

00:23:28:19 00:23:30:01 I was phoned by...

00:23:30:27 00:23:31:29 ...an Admiral.

00:23:32:20 00:23:34:04 Aguirre I think.

00:23:35:10 00:23:37:02 So a lot of people

00:23:38:12 00:23:40:08 vouched for this man.

00:23:40:10 00:23:42:21 Don't you remember

the exact details?

00:23:43:02 00:23:45:15 Do you remember

what happened to the drugs?

00:23:45:17 00:23:47:24 No, no, all I remember is

00:23:48:15 00:23:49:17 that the drugs

00:23:49:19 00:23:52:17 had to be stashed away

for a night at the barracks,

00:23:52:19 00:23:54:19 and that's how

they discovered it.

00:23:54:21 00:23:57:26 The stash spent a night

in Venezuelan barracks.

00:23:57:28 00:23:59:03 That's right.

00:23:59:05 00:24:01:05 A National Guard barracks?

00:24:01:07 00:24:02:20 No, the Army, I think.00:24:02:22 00:24:04:25 Because the drugs

were seized?

00:24:04:27 00:24:07:23 They weren't seized,

they were passing through.

00:24:07:25 00:24:11:00 So the drugs were stored

in a Venezuelan Army camp?

00:24:11:02 00:24:12:17 That is correct.

00:24:13:05 00:24:17:05 If the drugs weren't seized,

where were they headed?

00:24:17:07 00:24:19:09 Where did they come from?

00:24:19:11 00:24:23:14 The stash came from Colombia,

through Carora in Zulia State.

00:24:24:16 00:24:26:04 They held it that night?

00:24:26:14 00:24:28:08 Then where was it taken?

00:24:28:10 00:24:29:29 To Central Venezuela.

00:24:31:23 00:24:33:03 Central Venezuela.

00:24:33:26 00:24:36:27 So you issued that injunction

to help this man?

00:24:36:29 00:24:38:05 That's right.

00:24:38:17 00:24:41:26 That's the only time

I remember doing anything

00:24:41:28 00:24:44:03 to help a drug trafficker.

00:24:47:12 00:24:49:06 Let's go back a little.

00:24:49:19 00:24:52:00 Someone from

the President's office

00:24:52:02 00:24:54:16 asked you to help

this drug trafficker?00:24:55:03 00:24:57:21 Who else? Please tell me.

This is important.

00:24:58:04 00:24:59:22 Who else phoned you?

00:25:00:23 00:25:02:22 That would be Carvajal.

00:25:03:11 00:25:04:12 Rangel Silva.

00:25:04:26 00:25:06:01 Who is Carvajal?

00:25:06:13 00:25:08:27 The Director

of Military Intelligence.

00:25:08:29 00:25:11:23 The Director of the DISIP,


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SOi TV 2012

the Intelligence Agency.

00:25:12:05 00:25:14:15 Baduel, Minister of Defense.

00:25:16:20 00:25:18:04 Admiral Aguirre.

00:25:20:05 00:25:22:13 The Presidential Chief of Staff.

00:25:22:15 00:25:24:01 What did they say?

00:25:24:03 00:25:25:26 That he was a good guy,

00:25:25:28 00:25:28:05 that it was

the President's order.

00:25:28:07 00:25:32:01 That the President

was very interested in the case.

00:25:33:05 00:25:36:05 So they knew he had drugs

in the Army barracks?

00:25:36:07 00:25:38:04 Of course. How wouldn't they?

00:25:38:06 00:25:39:25 What did they say to you?

00:25:40:15 00:25:42:14 It seems like Magino

00:25:42:16 00:25:45:00 was the President's

mother's bodyguard,

00:25:45:02 00:25:46:26 so there was a link.

00:25:49:27 00:25:53:01 So was it proved that

he stashed the drugs overnight?00:25:53:03 00:25:55:04 I issued the injunction,

00:25:55:06 00:25:57:29 but the Prosecutor

closed the investigation.

00:25:58:01 00:26:01:17 I remember the case

was then later dismissed.

00:26:02:08 00:26:03:09 Case closed.

00:26:03:24 00:26:05:21 How long ago was this?

00:26:06:27 00:26:09:08 About four or five years ago.

00:26:09:23 00:26:12:15 In my opinion, right now

Alcal Cordones

00:26:12:17 00:26:16:11 is the drug baron in Venezuela

together with Reverol.

00:26:17:04 00:26:18:22 Through Puerto Cabello...

00:26:18:24 00:26:21:14 -The Drug Enforcement Reverol?

-That's right.

00:26:21:16 00:26:24:29 You're saying that the head

of drug enforcement

00:26:25:01 00:26:26:21 is involved with drugs?

00:26:26:23 00:26:29:29 He and Alcal Cordones

are very close friends.

00:26:30:01 00:26:33:14 Do you have any proof of this?

That's a serious accusation.

00:26:33:16 00:26:35:01 Yes it is serious.

00:26:35:03 00:26:37:05 What proof do you have?

00:26:37:07 00:26:38:22 I'd get the proof.

00:26:39:01 00:26:40:25 I don't have it right now.

00:26:41:14 00:26:46:19 But why do you think this man,who is a regional commander...

00:26:47:01 00:26:48:11 He heads a division.

00:26:48:25 00:26:52:27 He and the director

of the Drug Enforcement Office,

00:26:52:29 00:26:55:19 why do you think

they're involved in this?

00:26:55:21 00:26:58:18 Just take a look

at the global statistics

00:26:58:20 00:27:00:29 of international


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SOi TV 2012

drug trafficking,

00:27:01:01 00:27:04:19 and look at where drugs

are shipped from Venezuela.

00:27:05:18 00:27:08:06 I wouldn't doubt

it's from Puerto Cabello.

00:27:08:08 00:27:09:22 What could you find?

00:27:09:24 00:27:12:16 Drug lords to confirm

who these people are.

00:27:14:15 00:27:16:28 Did you have

any kind of relationship,

00:27:17:00 00:27:19:16 or knowledge

of a direct relationship,

00:27:19:18 00:27:22:24 between the government

and the Colombian FARC?

00:27:26:02 00:27:26:29 Well...

00:27:31:11 00:27:34:00 There was a time

when the instructions

00:27:34:02 00:27:38:13 we got mainly from

the Chief Military Prosecutor,

00:27:38:22 00:27:41:13 were to leave those guys alone.00:27:45:12 00:27:48:23 SECRET STORIES


00:28:00:05 00:28:03:08 SECRET STORIES


00:28:04:13 00:28:08:03 As Chief Military Prosecutor

you handled the Usn case.

00:28:08:05 00:28:09:19 -Right.

-The Baduel case.

00:28:09:21 00:28:10:19 Also.

00:28:10:21 00:28:13:03 -Polloli.

-I didn't handle Baduel's case.

00:28:13:05 00:28:15:19 -But you handled the Usn case.

-I did.

00:28:15:21 00:28:18:16 -Was that case manipulated?

-Yes it was.

00:28:18:18 00:28:21:17 Did you get a presidential

or executive order,

00:28:21:19 00:28:25:25 to do something you wouldn't do

as Chief Military Prosecutor?

00:28:27:01 00:28:29:05 -Yes.

-What did they tell you?

00:28:29:16 00:28:30:16 Well, that...

00:28:31:22 00:28:32:23 That I had to...

00:28:33:20 00:28:35:17 That he had to be charged and convicted.

00:28:35:28 00:28:37:12 Why did you do it?

00:28:37:14 00:28:38:23 Why did you do it?

00:28:39:21 00:28:41:00 I was ordered to.00:28:41:02 00:28:43:24 What would've happened

if you didn't obey?

00:28:46:19 00:28:47:24 I'd be dismissed.

00:28:49:25 00:28:52:23 Was that the only reason

you obeyed that order?

00:28:52:25 00:28:56:08 I've been a military officer

all my life.

00:28:57:03 00:28:59:13 How do you feel right now,

00:28:59:15 00:29:02:10 after confirming


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SOi TV 2012

that you tampered

00:29:02:12 00:29:04:16 with the Venezuelan

justice system,

00:29:04:18 00:29:06:19 and now you're in their hands?

00:29:07:06 00:29:08:03 Well,

00:29:09:24 00:29:12:26 what can I say to you?

I know what's coming my way.

00:29:16:12 00:29:18:24 And what's coming my way

isn't good.

00:29:19:18 00:29:20:27 How do you feel

00:29:20:29 00:29:23:24 about those who

have lost their freedom?

00:29:24:29 00:29:27:29 The relatives of people

who were imprisoned?

00:29:28:07 00:29:31:00 What would you say

to those people that you,

00:29:31:02 00:29:33:19 in some cases,

maybe by following orders,

00:29:33:21 00:29:38:06 or for any other reason,

deprived them of their liberty?00:29:38:08 00:29:41:10 What would you say

to their relatives?

00:29:41:12 00:29:43:12 What would you tell Venezuela,

00:29:43:14 00:29:47:04 that's watching you admit

to manipulating with justice?

00:29:47:06 00:29:48:24 I'd tell Venezuela

00:29:49:08 00:29:51:09 there's still time to recover.

00:29:53:21 00:29:56:06 To avoid repeating

the same mistakes.

00:29:57:28 00:30:00:07 To focus on a brighter future.

00:30:03:22 00:30:07:02 A more democratic future,

a future of greater freedom.

00:30:08:08 00:30:09:14 And as a man,

00:30:10:07 00:30:11:17 as a Venezuelan,

00:30:13:04 00:30:15:10 I accept my responsibility.

00:30:16:07 00:30:18:09 And if I did something wrong,

00:30:19:00 00:30:22:15 if I did something wrong,

I take the blame.

00:30:22:17 00:30:25:18 And if I have to pay for it,

so be it.

00:30:26:19 00:30:29:19 But I am not going to pay

for a crime

00:30:29:21 00:30:31:02 I never committed.

00:30:31:23 00:30:33:11 Which case is that?

00:30:33:13 00:30:36:04 You just admitted

to manipulating justice.

00:30:36:06 00:30:37:28 -No, no.-The Makled case?

00:30:38:00 00:30:39:08 The Makled case.

00:30:39:10 00:30:40:27 Let me ask you this.

00:30:40:29 00:30:43:24 Are there political prisoners

in Venezuela?

00:30:44:10 00:30:45:07 Yes.

00:30:46:00 00:30:49:12 There are people

they ordered not to be released.

00:30:50:01 00:30:52:07 Especially


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SOi TV 2012

the police inspectors.

00:30:53:24 00:30:55:10 Who gave the order? What was the order?

00:30:55:12 00:30:59:12 The order is from the President.

There's no doubt in my mind.

00:30:59:29 00:31:04:14 Nothing happens in Venezuela

without the President's okay.

00:31:04:16 00:31:07:19 Were you ordered

not to release Simonovis?

00:31:07:21 00:31:10:21 Simonovis, the police officers,

the April 11th. case.

00:31:10:23 00:31:13:17 What was the Supreme Court's

supposed to do?

00:31:13:19 00:31:15:27 Validate everything

we were sent.

00:31:16:14 00:31:19:27 In a nutshell,

we had to accept the fact

00:31:19:29 00:31:22:10 that they were not

to be released.

00:31:25:14 00:31:28:09 So the justice system

turned its back on them.00:31:29:21 00:31:32:12 So what would I say

to their relatives?

00:31:33:21 00:31:34:20 Have faith.

00:31:36:29 00:31:39:19 And struggle

for what they think is right,

00:31:39:21 00:31:42:06 and what they think

they should struggle for.

00:31:43:28 00:31:47:18 Do you feel the government

has turned against you?

00:31:48:18 00:31:51:07 I think they did that

a long time ago,

00:31:51:09 00:31:53:03 I just didn't realize it.

00:31:55:05 00:31:58:01 When did the government

start turning against you?

00:31:58:03 00:32:00:10 I think more than a year ago.

00:32:01:12 00:32:02:12 Why?

00:32:02:14 00:32:03:11 Well...

00:32:04:26 00:32:07:03 I guess I wasn't useful anymore.

00:32:07:14 00:32:10:04 Or maybe they needed

to find somebody else

00:32:10:06 00:32:13:01 who was more willing

to cooperate.

00:32:14:07 00:32:16:08 What are you going to do now?

00:32:16:10 00:32:20:05 Unofficially it's being said

you're cooperating somehow,

00:32:20:07 00:32:24:07 or speaking with several

international organizations00:32:24:09 00:32:26:01 such as the DEA, the FBI.

00:32:26:03 00:32:27:09 Not right now.

00:32:28:10 00:32:29:12 Not right now.

00:32:30:19 00:32:31:16 Would you?

00:32:33:02 00:32:36:24 If it's to do justice

and clear my name I would.

00:32:37:06 00:32:38:24 Why don't you go back

00:32:38:26 00:32:41:12 and face

the Venezuelan justice system?


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00:32:41:14 00:32:42:28 Do I have any rights?

00:32:46:07 00:32:48:04 Will they respect my rights?

00:32:48:15 00:32:51:20 If they respect my rights

I will be delighted to go back.

00:32:51:22 00:32:54:27 What rights did the people

that you imprisoned have?

00:32:54:29 00:32:58:07 Like I just told you,

I accept full responsibility.

00:32:58:09 00:33:01:09 But knowing the system

from inside,

00:33:01:11 00:33:04:15 and how it works

and how it's handled,

00:33:04:17 00:33:07:15 I don't think

I'd have any rights at all.

00:33:07:17 00:33:09:11 Not in my case at least.

00:33:09:20 00:33:12:20 You were in the judiciary

for more than 15 years,

00:33:12:22 00:33:16:02 and the cases we discussed

of the manipulating of justice

00:33:16:04 00:33:18:08 happened more thansix years ago.

00:33:18:10 00:33:20:11 Why didn't they come after you?

00:33:20:13 00:33:23:03 Why didn't they

have you investigated?

00:33:23:05 00:33:24:02 Why now?

00:33:25:00 00:33:26:29 I ask myself the same question.

00:33:31:00 00:33:33:02 I ask myself the same question.

00:33:35:03 00:33:36:28 And it's even ironical.

00:33:37:00 00:33:40:18 I went from being the persecutor

to being persecuted.

00:33:42:12 00:33:45:10 Have your bank accounts

in America been frozen?

00:33:45:12 00:33:47:04 I have no accounts anywhere.

00:33:47:06 00:33:50:12 There are unofficial reports

in Venezuela

00:33:50:14 00:33:53:14 that you used your daughter

as a front woman.

00:33:53:16 00:33:54:18 Is that true?

00:33:54:20 00:33:56:13 They'd have to prove that.

00:33:57:10 00:33:59:13 Check her bank account.

00:34:02:05 00:34:04:00 See where the money is.

00:34:04:21 00:34:06:11 That's what they need to do.

00:34:06:13 00:34:08:08 There are other cases

00:34:08:10 00:34:12:06 we'd like to consult with you

off the record.

00:34:12:08 00:34:15:26 One is the also emblematic case

of the briefcase.00:34:17:13 00:34:19:02 One of the people

00:34:20:16 00:34:23:28 who were convicted in America

was Franklin Durn.

00:34:24:29 00:34:27:18 He returned to Venezuela

a few days ago.

00:34:28:03 00:34:31:28 He is reported to have been held

for five days by the DISIP,

00:34:32:00 00:34:34:23 he gave a statement,

and was released.


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SOi TV 2012

00:34:34:25 00:34:38:22 Apparently he's charged

with money laundering,

00:34:38:24 00:34:40:13 if I'm not mistaken.

00:34:40:15 00:34:43:00 There are also

some unofficial reports

00:34:43:02 00:34:46:25 that some of his relatives

bribed you, is that true?

00:34:46:27 00:34:49:28 That they bribed you

to make sure Franklin Durn

00:34:50:00 00:34:52:20 wouldn't have any trouble

back in Venezuela.

00:34:53:05 00:34:57:03 I think they got that wrong,

and I'll tell you why.

00:34:57:22 00:35:00:04 Did the Duran family

pay you $2 million?

00:35:00:06 00:35:01:03 What?

00:35:02:01 00:35:02:28 No.

00:35:03:20 00:35:08:06 Mr. Durn went straight

to the Prosecutor's office,

00:35:08:08 00:35:10:27 he wasin the Prosecutor's office.

00:35:10:29 00:35:15:01 From there he was taken to court

where he got an injunction.

00:35:15:19 00:35:17:18 So what was my role in that?

00:35:18:22 00:35:20:03 But you know the case.

00:35:20:05 00:35:22:21 Yes I do,

it's a very famous case.

00:35:23:26 00:35:27:23 Why would they pay me?

I had nothing to do with it.

00:35:29:00 00:35:32:16 It's been a long time

since I've been in a courtroom.

00:35:33:11 00:35:35:00 What do you do now?

00:35:35:02 00:35:37:10 I was stuck

with issuing rulings.

00:35:38:24 00:35:40:29 And now I'll focus on writing.

00:35:42:22 00:35:45:22 -What kind of writing?

-Maybe my memoirs.

00:35:46:13 00:35:47:22 What will they say?

00:35:47:24 00:35:48:21 Well,

00:35:49:11 00:35:50:14 lots of stuff.

00:35:50:23 00:35:52:21 Were you threatened

in Venezuela?

00:35:52:23 00:35:54:11 Do you fear for your life?

00:35:54:13 00:35:55:28 In Venezuela I do.

00:35:56:26 00:35:59:13 Yes I do fear for my life,

first of all,

00:35:59:15 00:36:03:25 because of how emblematicI was like you said earlier.

00:36:04:22 00:36:05:19 And also,

00:36:06:22 00:36:07:19 because,

00:36:08:18 00:36:12:05 right now I would be

an easy target for anybody.

00:36:14:21 00:36:17:11 Considering how many

hired assassins there are,

00:36:17:13 00:36:20:05 I wouldn't dare

walk the streets in Venezuela.


21/23

SOi TV 2012

00:36:20:07 00:36:21:24 Because it's dangerous.

00:36:21:26 00:36:25:09 Because it's dangerous,

and I don't have an armored car.

00:36:25:23 00:36:27:24 I don't have a bodyguard.

00:36:28:15 00:36:32:02 So I'm now like they say,

like any other guy.

00:36:32:15 00:36:34:12 And just like any other guy,

00:36:34:14 00:36:37:21 I can suffer

the consequences of a crime.

00:36:37:23 00:36:39:19 Do you admit the harm you did

00:36:39:21 00:36:41:20 to the Venezuelan

justice system?

00:36:41:22 00:36:42:19 Yes.

00:36:43:20 00:36:47:02 Like I said, I take the blame

and the responsibility.

00:36:47:22 00:36:50:00 And I'll pay for it

if I have to.

00:36:55:05 00:36:56:24 Being a former part of it,

00:36:56:26 00:36:59:20 exactly how corrupt

is the Venezuelan judiciary?00:37:00:02 00:37:03:04 I think it's very corrupt

at every single level.

00:37:05:02 00:37:07:07 There's a lot of manipulation.

00:37:08:29 00:37:12:29 Like I said, there's no ruling

that isn't consulted.

00:37:15:16 00:37:18:00 Lately, all the criminal courts

00:37:18:24 00:37:22:25 have to make consultations

before handing down a ruling.

00:37:26:06 00:37:29:21 SECRET STORIES


00:37:41:02 00:37:44:16 SECRET STORIES


00:37:45:14 00:37:46:11 You know,

00:37:47:18 00:37:49:01 on the twentieth,

00:37:50:26 00:37:52:26 when I finished packing

00:37:54:02 00:37:56:26 all my stuff in my office,

all my books,

00:37:57:29 00:37:59:08 I told myself

00:37:59:20 00:38:02:10 I'd never touch

another law book.

00:38:04:06 00:38:05:03 Justice,

00:38:06:19 00:38:09:15 is nothing,

justice is a ball of putty.

00:38:10:14 00:38:13:05 I say putty

because it can be molded.

00:38:14:16 00:38:15:26 For or against.

00:38:17:14 00:38:20:25 I didn't want to have anythingto do with the law anymore.

00:38:20:27 00:38:23:14 I said I'd rather have

a hotdog stand.

00:38:24:00 00:38:26:21 But then,

after all my reflections,

00:38:27:03 00:38:29:08 and I had time to think it over,

00:38:30:07 00:38:32:01 and after I saw that,

00:38:33:01 00:38:36:07 that my friends

have offered to help me,


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SOi TV 2012

00:38:38:29 00:38:41:28 I now think

you need to fight for justice.

00:38:44:07 00:38:46:03 And that blindfolded lady

00:38:46:22 00:38:48:26 has to be shown the way.

00:38:49:15 00:38:52:10 You said earlier

that you felt betrayed.

00:38:54:06 00:38:56:22 By whom exactly?

Who betrayed you?

00:38:56:24 00:38:57:27 My colleagues.

00:39:02:10 00:39:03:07 Why? Who?

00:39:04:10 00:39:05:07 Well,

00:39:07:09 00:39:11:07 all of them, there are so many,

the list goes on and on.

00:39:12:04 00:39:15:09 I picked up the phone

and made phone calls,

00:39:15:11 00:39:16:21 and nobody answered.

00:39:16:23 00:39:19:05 Nobody would have anything

to do with me.

00:39:19:07 00:39:20:25 -Right now.

-Exactly.00:39:21:08 00:39:23:01 But they phoned you before.

00:39:23:03 00:39:26:02 They phoned me, I phoned them,

and we got together.

00:39:26:04 00:39:28:09 And now nobody

wants to see my face.

00:39:29:18 00:39:31:16 That's why I tell you,

00:39:32:15 00:39:35:17 the blindfolded lady,

the goddess Themis,

00:39:37:04 00:39:39:19 we need to take her

down the right path,

00:39:39:21 00:39:43:06 that is the duty

of all us Venezuelans.

00:39:43:21 00:39:44:19 And therefore,

00:39:45:28 00:39:49:19 I won't burn my law books,

or not study them again.

00:39:49:21 00:39:51:17 I'll read them more than ever.

00:39:52:17 00:39:55:01 Because I'll try to make right,

00:39:56:03 00:39:57:20 as long as I live,

00:39:58:23 00:40:00:04 the harm I did.

00:40:00:06 00:40:01:18 That's my penance.

00:40:04:18 00:40:06:09 How will you do that?

00:40:06:21 00:40:08:15 By fighting for justice.

00:40:08:27 00:40:10:20 By doing what is right.

00:40:12:01 00:40:15:06 If I were the daughter

of someone who was arrested

00:40:15:08 00:40:18:18 due to your irresponsibility,

Your manipulation of justice,00:40:18:20 00:40:20:13 why would I believe you?

00:40:22:07 00:40:24:04 I'll prove it with my actions.

00:40:26:02 00:40:27:25 To wrap up our interview,

00:40:27:27 00:40:31:04 is there separation of powers

in Venezuela?

00:40:31:14 00:40:34:13 -None whatsoever.

-The Venezuelan judiciary?

00:40:34:15 00:40:38:22 There's no separation of power

whatsoever in Venezuela.


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SOi TV 2012

00:40:38:24 00:40:41:09 Are there political prisoners

in Venezuela?

00:40:41:11 00:40:42:21 Yes there are.

00:40:43:04 00:40:44:17 The Afiuni case.

00:40:44:19 00:40:47:12 The same thing.

It's a very political case.

00:40:47:14 00:40:48:22 And emblematic.

00:40:50:11 00:40:52:27 She's a judge and a lawyer

just like you.

00:40:52:29 00:40:54:19 I'm sure she's watching.

00:40:54:21 00:40:57:09 What would you say to her

particularly?

00:40:57:23 00:40:59:26 That she's a very brave woman.

00:41:00:19 00:41:02:26 And that those are the justices

00:41:02:28 00:41:06:00 that represent

the justice system well.

00:41:09:01 00:41:10:18 PALACE OF JUSTICE

00:41:22:10 00:41:23:25 "After the interview,

00:41:23:27 00:41:28:06 Justice Aponte Aponte

was seen with DEA agents."00:41:30:23 00:41:34:05 SECRET STORIES


former judge aponte: vice-president manages justice in venezuela

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