forming 223 rem brass for the nagant revolver

8/9/2019 Forming 223 Rem Brass for the Nagant Revolver

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Forming 223 Rem brass for theNagant revolver

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Forming 223 remington brass for the Nagant revolver

this revolver can shoot: .32 s&w short, .32 smith and wesson short, .32 H&R, 322! "#F, $.%23r, .223 trimmed brass,.32$ federal magn(m b(t ma) be too dangero(s, mm *ebel French revolver ammo.

I wrote about the 1895 Nagant revolver a couple of years ago, and about the somewhat odd cartridge designed for it. It's long, the bullet is seateddown inside the case, and when the cylinder comes into battery the mouth of the case actually fits inside the breech of the barrel when fired, thecase mouth e!pands and forms a gas seal that actually does give the bullet a bit more velocity than it has with an open flash gap.

"ou can get #.$% Nagant brass from &tarline or you can use the ee dies to form .(%)%* brass to wor+ in both the case is too short to form the gasseal. It wor+s uite well, and the brass lasts longer since it's not being as drastically wor+ed when you fire. If you want the full)length cases, the onlytwo you can buy that I +now of are -iocchitwo drawbac+s, it's e!pensive and due to the dramatic crimp they use it tends to crac+ at the mouth whenfired/ and the 0ussian target ammo some dealers carryvery accurate, generally doesn't crac+ but berdan primed/. hich leaves the option of ta+ingsome e!isting case and forming it.

2t the time I got my Nagant I found a post on a gunboard on how to do this and decided to give it a try. &ome success, some failure and some bugs inthe process as I tried it. -iddled with it on and off, and here's how I've been doing it.

Needed3 .%%( cases, a 46 case lube, a .(* 7arbine siing die, a short piece of brass rod about1:; diameter and a drill press. 2lso some way to cut the e!cess off when the time comes. 6one right this gives you a case with a rim to hold it in

ming 223 Rem brass for the Nagant revolver http://ak47building.yolasite.com/forming-making-brass-for-the-nagant...

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place and long enough to give the gas seal.


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Aere you'll need a flat piece of steel, only specs are that it be thic+ enough not to bend and wide enough to cover the shellholder. @a+e the

depriming stem out of the die) you may want to use a universal deprimer to do that and ?ust leave the stem out of the sier) set the steel on the

shellholder, lube the case and push it up into the die,

then run the ram up until it contacts, then lever it all the way it'll ta+e some pressure and the rim should be the only thing showing below the die

mouth. =ac+ off the ram, stic+ the brass rod through the depriming stem hole into the case, ta+e a light hammer and start tapping. Ait too hard and

you can crac+ the shellhead or brea+ it off, so ?ust tap and if you lubed the case well it should start coming out after a few.

B!amine them at this point, loo+ for any crac+ed rims or other damage that means toss it. If all's well, get out the case trimmer and trim them to 1.5;

overall. 6epending on the case and how far bac+ you cut it off, you may have to use the e!pander die to open the mouth up a bit so the trimmer

guide will fit in. @hen deburr inside C out, clean off the lube and you have cases ready to use. 6on't forget3 you will need a way to bell the case

mouth a bit to let the bullet start in.

Aere's a .%%( case, one with all the forming done, trimmed to length and one of the 0ussian target cartridges on the right. Aard to see in this shot but

the 0ussian has a long taper crimp above the bulletwhich is a wadcutter seated with the face almost .:; below the case mouth/.

I loaded %5 of these reformed cases with standard small pistol primers, a charge of Dniue and some 1** grain Aornady hollow)base wadcutters,

seating the bullets so the face is about 1:; below the case mouth. @hen I ran them partway into the siing die to give the case a taper crimp and

smooth out any bulges formed when you seated the bullet. ater on, ?ust for the hell of it, I've got some .(* caliber hollowpoints I'm going to try out

in these.

@hat first %5 I tried out at about ten yards, and all fired with no problems, no split case mouths and good accuracygood for me with those sights

results may vary/. &ome empties fell right out, some were pretty stic+y I thin+ a combination of not smooth enough where they'd been filed down

and maybe a bit too thic+ there. @he 0ussian brass loo+s li+e it's pretty thin)walled, the .%%( much thic+er so I thin+ it didn't contract bac+ as much

after firing. I'm going to thin the cases that stuc+ ?ust a bit atabove the web and polish them and see how that wor+s out.


. 3 19 10/13/2014 8:32 PM


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Notes

hen my old pc crapped out, I lost the information I'd originally saved on this procedure including an e)mail I got from the guy who posted it. If you

happen to see this, than+s for helping me wor+ this out.


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ro?ect

by George N. Fisher

Project and page started Oct 10th, 2002

This site designed for 800x00 res.

Last Update, November 9th, 2002

#licable -ict(res and *ins are l(eand (nderlined. Newest /0dated info highlighted in 1ellow, changed info

Highlighted in reen.

2 few wee+s ago I finally bro+e down and bought myself a


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6uring this time, I found some older reloading data for several .(% caliber rounds from a pro?ect from several years bac+.

Included in this data are Aeavy bullets loads with weights as high as 15* grs in the .(% &C ong cartridge. I decided to

loo+ at some new data for the .(% 27> cylinder, using standard .(% 27> brass, but with loads designed for and able to

chamber only in the longer .(% 27> cylinder for the Nagant. I called the new loads ;(% Nagant; to +eep the load data

seperate from standard loads in .(% 27> for use in &emi)automatic pistols such as the 7F)5*#*. ne thing I did notice

during firing with the (% 27> 7ylinder installed was that it must be +ept clean, or the revelver would tend to bind after

about 5* rds or so. 2 cleaner buring powder may help resolve this.

Included in this new series are &abot loads with :$ and 55 gr bullets, ad 7utter loads, &emi)ad 7utter oads, Gac+etedAollow >oint oads with heavy bullet weights, and heavy weight cast bullet loads. >lease remember that these are

e!perimental loads only, and for referance and informational purposes only. Dse this or any other load data at your own

ris+.

4eneral &hooting Notes

2s I stated in the beginning, the sights on this revolver are hard to see, that was the main reason for limiting the shooting

to 15 yds. I used a fairly standard >istol target for all accuracy testing.

@he .(% 27> 7ylinder wor+ed very well, but tended to get dirty within 5* rds or so. 2 cleaning or chamber brush ma+es

life much easier, and allows e!tended shooting time. 2s the cylinder got dirty, chambering rounds got to be a chore, and

the action got stiffer and harder to operate. 2 few passes with a brush solved this.

2ll the loads tested at first would either drop free from the chamber either under their own power, or with a slight tap of

the e?ection rod. @he -N -actory ammo was the only ammo that reuired a firm push to e?ect the brass.

@he 6ouble action pull of the test revolver was off the scale, but I would guess it to be somewhere in the %* lb range. 2ll

testing was done single action.

@he windage was right on for almost all loads, with the worst -N -actory ammo/ being 1.5 inches left of center.


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:. If you don't handload, than the .(% 27> 7ylinder is almost a must have. 2 fairly wide selection of .(% 27> ammo can be

found. Bven so, I would carry a spare .(% 27> 7ylinder for -ield use, simply to allow the use of -actory ammo. Aollow

points for small game hunting, etc./ If spare parts can be found, the cylinder can be fitted with a &pring and 7ylinder

plunger, to ma+e switching cylinders a simple process.

5. Aolster for -ield Ai+ing use. 6on't see many holsters that wor+ with the Nagant, but


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2ll loads were given taper crimp with ee 6ie

(llet )0e(llet "eight

4grains5-owder

)0e#harge4grains5

6elocit)4f0s5

#7* Notes and #ommentsro(0 8i9e 4$rds +; )ds5

%% 7aliber GA>w &abot

:$ 22 E5 %.5 8%*.1 .99$at 15 yds the &abot had not seperated from the bullet.

ery snappy load, recoil about li+e a %% 0-< from a>istol.

1.895


55 22 E5 %.5 #%5.5 1.%**at 15 yds the &abot had not seperated from the bullet.

No signs of yawing or unstable bullets.%.(*$

>lated A=7 8( 22 E5 %.% 8*(.* .9:1ery nice load, most accurate to date with the (%

7ylinder1.:59

>lated 6B7 8( N"@ .9:1

AornadyJ@>)A>

85 22 E% %.% #$%.9 .98* 1.9$(

>lated 7A> 8( 22 E5 %.% #98.5 .9:1 A=7 loaded bac+wards as Aollow point 1.#55

)A>

85 N"@

AornadyJ@>)A>

$* =ullseye %.$ 8(5.54ood load for 7F)5* pistol, comparable to most factory A>

loads of same caliber.Not recorded targetmisplaced/


:$ 22 E5 %.5 8%*.1at 15 yds the &abot had not seperated from the bullet.

ery snappy load, recoil about li+e a %% 0-< from a >istol.1.895

#.$%!(80 Nagant &na+e &hot load using converted &tarline (%)%* =rass

@his load was a spin off of an older reloading pro?ect for the .(% AC0


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-owder)0e

-owder#harge

4grains5

8hot8i9e

8hot weight4grains5

-rimer Firing res(lts $ feet

22 E5 %.5 E 85$.( includes %(* caliber gaschec+s/

77I &mall

>istol

(% pellets in a # inch circle, $ pellets in the 1.5 inch center aiming point, 55 pelletstotal on a 8.5!11 sheet of paper. =oth 47's hit within 1 inch of each other, ?ust left ofpoint of aim. =oth 47's hit flat and cut a 7 type hole in the paper.

=ullseye (.* E 85$.( includes %(* caliber gaschec+s/

77I &mall

>istol

%8 pellets in a # inch circle, # pellets in the 1.5 inch center aiming point, $1 pelletstotal on 8.5!11 sheet of paper. ne 47 hit almost dead center point of aim, otherwas ( in high and right from center and entered sideways.

.(% 27> -actory 2mmo, @ested in .(% 27> 7onversion 7ylinder

rand(llet"eight

(llet)0e

6elocit)4f0s5

899.* %.%%8, 5 shots in1.9**

-N rimed, and B0" dirty. Aowever it was accurate in the .(% 27> 7ylinder, and is a good general

>lin+ing target load. It comes pac+ed %5 rds to a Bgg crate type plastic bo!, 1*5* rds per case.


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chester

&enior osts

1,1%$

If you are tal+ing about the A C 0 .(% conversion cylinderwhich sounds reasonable and safe, but I chose not to go that route. I have also read about fol+s shooting (% & ong, and even (% A C 0


11/19

E;

gotten uite used to them, both of them, over the yearsV

Aere is what I'm currently shooting in my revolver, it wor+s well, is fun, and easy to reload. 2ll the legal disclaimers apply, this is what wor+s for mein my gun with the listed components, so use at your own ris+H @hese are the range of loads I've tested on my gun so I'm listing (.8 grains Dniue asressure is high enough to form the cases to the chamber but low enough that empties ?ust fall out of the revolver. I have not noticed primersbac+ing out or flowing. 2lso, I have not evaluated grouping yet, but will do that soon. @his wor+s for both new (%)%* brass and previously fired (%)%*brass. I'm on my (rd reload in some of these cases with no issues so far.

T !ast "dit# $%g%st 0&, 2008, 0'#((#&) $* by b%c+haerU

http3shootersforum.comshowthread.htmMtS1(%#

*9)%()%**(, *:3%9 >osts3 8,9%9

=een playing with the nagant for a few years...and will state that it really ma+es a difference to use the right length brass. @he cylinder is bored atthe mouth to ta+e a bullet 2N6 the brass case wrapped around it...this ma+es the chamber mouth about .((8;. 2 (%)%* case is not uite longenough to fill this mouth so when fired the bullet has two choices3 1/ if pressure is high enough, will bump up to .((8; and then slam into a.(1*)(1(; barrel or %/ pressur eis too low to upset the bullet to cahmber mouth diameter, so gas leas+ past the .(11; bullet in the .((8; throat.

@he gas seal actually relies on the long case to fit into the recess cut into the forcing cone...without it, the gas 6B& bleed a bit between cylinderand forcing cone.

or+ed out a way with a 2@AB/ to ma+e usealbe full length nagant cases form .%%( brass. will out line it for those interrested31. &ie .%%( case in .(*carbine sier...?ust until the soild part of the .%%( is encountered. ill loo+ li+e mini)belted magnum brass. 7an't sie thesolid web of a .%%( case.

%. 2the off the belt. this will ma+e the case into a rimmed case as you 6 N@ lather the 0Im O...the .%%( is rimless...but once we ta+e thebody down, we leave a rim/.

(. 7ut case to nagant length.

ith this brass, get the lvel. that the Nagant was noted for 2N6 good accuracy. 7onsider3 the case feeds the bullet directly into the rifling, thecase loc+es the barrel and cylinder together for great alignment, and the bullet gets full use of the powder charge no gap..no blow by...doslamming a .((8; bullet into a .(11; bore/.

as and am/ amaed at how well the old clun+er will shoot with the above brass and A=7's light charges/. -04B@ 62 shooting...no way with

that system to get anything near a reasonable 62 trigger pull.

http3www.surplusrifleforum.comviewtopic.phpMfS#1CtS$9%(1

I've had my best results using real #.$% Nagant cases as opposed to using .(%)%* cases. @he rims on .(%)%*'s are too thic+ to allow them to wor+ in any


. 11 19 10/13/2014 8:32 PM


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of my Nagants and I am unwilling to file on my guns to ma+e a non)standard case wor+.

@he -iocchi cases as they come from the factory are brittle. I typically lose about 1*W due to case nec+ splits after firing unless I anneal the wholebatch prior to reloading. 2nnealing is time)consuming and a pain in the patootie.

It also doesn't ma+e financial sense to buy the -iocchi cases. @hey cost K:% per hundred from 4rafs. "ou can buy -oadedAot&hot ammo from 7entury2rms at the regular price of K%1.8# per bo! of 5* so the price is only 8# cents more for a bo! of loaded ammo compared to the unloaded -iocchibrass. @he price of 5* bullets, primers, and powder charges is way more than 8# cents, not to mention the labor savings. 7entury puts the Aot&hotammo on sale occasionally as they did in 6ecember/ for K1#.8# a bo! so if you lay low for the deal then it's a no)brainer.

@he Aot&hot brass is made by >rvi >artisan and is a bit softer than the -iocchi stuff so it doesn't split upon firing li+e the un)annealed -iocchi casesdo. I have some >rvi brass that has been fired and reloaded four times now with no case splits. i+e I said, many of my reloads with the -iocchi cases

had split case nec+s on the first firing.

@he choice is yours of course, but unless and until the price of the -iocchi brass gets more in line with what you might pay for more common casesli+e .(8 &pecial or .:5 27> then I ?ust can't see any reason to buy it.

2s to your last uestion, going to #.$% Nagant cases probably won't ma+e any practical difference in results at the range. Aowever, your reloads won'twor+ in every Nagant revolver due to the rim thic+ness issue. @here is also the issue of beating up the forcing cone when using .(%)%*, .(% AC0 D& another appro!imately .*%*;to allow for the thic+ness of the brass at the nec+ area. hen using .(%)%* or other short cases the case never enters the forcing cone and so thebullet stri+es an effectively oversied forcing cone. @he Nagant forcing cones were not intended to withstand impact... they were meant to guide thebullet into the barrel by using the #.$% Nagant case nec+ as a funnel. @he Nagant revolver is tough and withstands this abuse well, but I believe thecontinued use of cases that are shorter than the Nagant cylinder will eventually lead to forcing cone damage.

)=ob

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http3paralla!scurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yu+u.comtopic%#$99

ldIronosts3 1%1$

*$1#*8 1%3%( >


13/19

Goin 6ate3 osts3 1:,#5$

ne big danger in the .(%#


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&0:#5$ 5.8-ed.%*5

11#1 (% 9 N60estloose.

@itegroup:.1-ed.%*5

1188 (( 9 1.9*nce)firedbrass.

@rail =oss:.*-ed.%*5

8(( 1(# (9 1.8*nce)firedbrass.

%(1 :.5-ed.%*5

11#5 81 %1 %.(*nce)firedbrass.

-ederal >685)gr.Aydra)&ho+

-actory oad 1:1: $1 %1 N6 0estloose.

2mericanBagle1**)gr.Dni)7or

-actory oad 1:99 55 18 N60estloose.

&peer >>115)gr.4old 6ot

-actory oad 1($1 $* 19 N60estloose.

Notes3 2ll data are based on at least 1* rounds of each load. 2ccuracy is forone 1*)shot group with the &>1*1 fired from a 7aldwell A2remium >ersonal 6efense0educed 0ecoil 2mmunition (%#-ederal oint=o! of %*>roduct E3 91(#8# 6(%#A&1 A

price K19.99

lin+ 3http3www.midwayusa.comview>roductdefault.asp!MproductNumberS91(#8#

Technical Informaon

Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps

Muzzle Energy: 370 . lbs.

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


. 14 19 10/13/2014 8:32 PM


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Note3this is the ammo that I is o+ay to shoot in the nagant revolver and

is confirmed by many on the gun board if its .(% hCr it can be shot out of

the nagant revolver.

-ederal >remium >ersonal 6efense2mmunition (% AC0 oint =o! of%*>roduct E3 11#8*8


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Powder TypeStarng Charge (grains)Velocity (fps)Max Charge (grains)Velocity (fps)Source

0ecipe 1/22E5 5.8 1185 $.8 1%(5 ee

0ecipe %/=ullseye (.( 1%** 5.* 1(9* Internet

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

what was the energy in mule of each reloading recipe after completionM

$.%2?2; toarev energ)from seller belliot at 85 grain bullet at 1%8( fps gives 3+! footClbswhich is similar to the loads from the recipes from

above for the to+arev

For .32$ federal magn(m

4Factor) ammo5-ederal >6 85)gr. Aydra)&ho+ -actory oad 1:1: ->& A(99le nerg): 3$! ft. lbs.

7onclusion3.32$ federal magn(m85 grain bullet recipes are normally more energy statisticall) E@;% ftClbsout of the barrel than#.$%J%5 toarev statisticall) 4E@!% ftClbs5.=ut the e!periments with the nagant revolver were with thinner walls than the factory cylinder and

supposedly the nagant revolver did not +aboom.


17/19

2n unsettling e!perience with a 0ussian Nagant revolver

http3www.steyrclub.comvbthreads$%%9)2n)unsettling)e!perience)with)a)0ussian)Nagant)revolver

ent shooting at the range &aturday with one of my ;&harpshooters '0' Ds; buddies, a retired D.&. 2ir -orce veteran, who brought his 0ussian Nagant

#.$%!(80mm revolver, an ancient single)action design dating bac+ to 1895.


18/19

@he 4ood ord loo+s out for fools and drun+s and members of ;&harpshooters '0' Ds; tooH

http3forums.gunboards.comshowthread.phpM9%%#%)Nagant)in)#.$%!%5

*%)19)%**9 *53%% >< E1$

chester

&enior osts1,1%#

If you are tal+ing about the A C 0 .(%


19/19

I have loo+ed pretty hard and have not been able to find any first hand accounts of Nagant 0evolver failures resulting in an in?ury.oint$ says in another thread that nothing showed up inthe papers and no one at the range would tal+ about it. Aow did he even find out what happened in the first placeM 2pperantly hegoes to a range with people who are much more tight lipped than the two that I belong to. 2t the clubs I belong to... shootingoften seems to ta+e a bac+ seat to swapping tall tales.

Incredibly, I have been able to find doens of accounts of people shooting all sorts of different cartridges through the Nagant0evolver up to and including ?ust about any insane load someone has somehow managed to fit into the cylinder. "ou would thin+that would translate into a high failure rate wouldn't youM &omehow, I haven't come across even one first hand account of someoneblowing up their gun. I don't doubt that it has happened I would ?ust li+e a lin+ so that I can find out some actual details and seesome pictures. It is always ?ust I heard this or that or the other thing from the internet or a friend of somebody's cousin. et's learnfrom some actual incidents.

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forming 223 rem brass for the nagant revolver

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