gen 2 nsx wiki · web viewthis will be my 2nd track day outing with the 2017 acura nsx i have...

NSXPO HPDE Thunderhill September 26-27, 2018

This will be my 2nd Track Day outing with the 2017 Acura NSXI have rented a trailer and will tow the NSX to Thunderhill

The PLAN: HAVE FUN – BE SMART

1


Pre-Event preparation for NSXPO HPDE & Maintenance & inspection:

Installed NEW Brakes pads Front & Rear as preparation for the Track Days.

180820 Before Track Day Front Rotor Rotation is Bottom to TopOEM FRONT Brake pad thickness before Track Day: (measured at inner top & bottom corners) (Total = 15.8mm; backing plate=5.5mm; front pad=10mm)LEFT RIGHTLOT 15.8mm LIT 15.8mm RIT 15.8mm ROT 15.8mm LOB 15.8mm LIB 15.8mm RIB 15.8mm ROB 15.8mm Taper= 00.mm Taper= 0.0 mm Taper= 0.0mm Taper= 0.0 mm

Original FRONT pads removed at 6000mi (include 75miles 1 st track day) Front Rotor Rotation is Bottom to TopOEM FRONT Brake pad thickness before Track Day: (measured at inner top & bottom corners)

(Total = 15.8mm; backing plate=5.5mm; front pad=10mm)LOT 14.68 mm LIT 14.57mm Left only LOB 114.34mm LIB 14.24mm Taper= 0.34mm Taper= 0.33 mmThe taper continues to increase slightly on this set of front pads from the 12/31/2016 test day.

Rear Rotor Rotation is Top to Bottom OEM REAR Brake pad thickness before Track Day: (measured at inner top & bottom corners) (Total = 14.8mm; backing plate=5.5mm; Rear pad=10mm)LEFT RIGHTLOT 14.8mm LIT 14.8mm RIT 14.8mm ROT 14.8mm LOB 14.8mm LIB 14.8mm RIB 14.8mm ROB 14.8mm Taper= 00.mm Taper= 0.0 mm Taper= 0.0mm Taper= 0.0 mm

Original REAR pads removed at 6000mi (include 75miles 1 st track day) Rear Rotor Rotation is Top to BottomOriginal pads replaced after 1st test of 75miles due to excessive heat taper (close to 1 mm).The replacement set has 4000 miles & is in excellent condition. (<0.3mmm wear.)

Rear Rotor rotation is Top to Bottom

NOTE: These pads were specifically pre-bedded using the “straight line” approach. On 9/1/2018.(There was the question raised whether the pads were “bedded” prior to the 1st Tack Day, but I know they were bedded properly, on track.)

2


Suspension setup Program1. Modify Camber settings per discussions with Bruce Foss & Chad Gilsinger2. Goal is 2.5 degree camber on all four corners (Chads suggestion)3. Front-Added 9mm shim packs, 2 places lower control arms each side4. Rear-Added 4.5mm shim packs, 2 places lower control arms each side5. Needed major Toe correction after adding shims

Stock Suspension measure 9/6Front Toe 76-3/1676-3/5 – Toe = o” over 42” or 0” over 21’ rim dia. (Align bars are 42” long, approx 2X wheel dia)Rear Toe – not measuredCamber – measured in the garage which has about 0.3 slope left to right (varies from .2 to 0.5degree)Used 0.3 degree correction (add to right & subtract from Left measurements)Camber (with 9mm packs added to stock shim pack)LF -0.4 degree RF -0.4 degree (Stock shims LF is red, 2mm;RF is green, 3.5mm)LR -1.0 degree RR -1.0 degree (Stock shims LR & RR were black 1.5mm)

Final Modified Camber with shim packs (with 9mm packs added to stock shim pack)LF -1.8 to -1.9 degree RF -1.9 to -2.1 degreeLR -2.7 to -2.8degree RR -2.4 to -2.5 degree

3


Front Toe Changes Had Significant Toe changes! Front Toe Adjustment After Camber set Front Toe #174-1/877-1/2 – Toe IN = 3-7/8”!!! over 42”

Front Toe IN #2, after adjust L and R tie rods OUT 2 full turns on each side75-1/477-1/4 – Toe IN= 2” over 42” Reduced by 1-7/8 with 2T out on each side

FINAL Front Toe IN #3 , after adjust L and R tie rods OUT an additional 1-3/4 turns (Total each side now 3-3/4T!)76-3/876-5/8 – Toe IN= 1/4” over 42”, or 1/16” over 21” wheel dia. Reduced with 3-3/4 T out on each side

Stock Rear Toe (after the camber change it need a large adjustment.) No stock measurement.(It has about a third the toe change in the front, but also had half the shim pack thickness.)

Rear Toe Adjustment After Camber set Front Toe OUT#178-1/477-0 – Toe OUT= 1-1/4”!!! over 42”

Rear Toe OUT#2, after adjust L and R tie rods coupler OUT 1/2 turns on each side77-7/877-0 – Toe = 7/8” over 42” Reduced by 1-7/8 with 2T out on each side

FINAL REAR Toe #3, after adjust L and R tie rods OUT another 1/2T turn (total each side now 1 Full Turn!)77-3/877-1/8 – Toe OUT= 1/4” over 42”, or 1/16” over 21” wheel dia. Reduced by 1 full turn out on each side

SET UP & use Harry’s Lap Timer SW to collect lap times and data.Had problems with HLT. It did not work with the new iPad because it does not have a cellular connection, which somehow prevents GPS from working.

I switched to my iPhone, but it worked intermittently. It did not receive good GPS when stuck in a compartment, so I taped it to the car display.It finally worked adequately. The S/F timing was good but some of HLT sector points were intermittent. This needs some work to improve reception (secure phone location) if I want to use this at another track event.

4


1. Day1 Session 1 - - - RESET Harry’s (Got good lap time data with HLP & iPhone)

2. Fill gas tank to 5/8 (est 8gal, only 5-6 useable) Use 100+ Octane unleaded RACE FUEL! 3. Tire pressures cold to be set at 32 PSI and check HOT off track.4. Estimate 6-8 laps, 20 miles on Pirelli Trofeo track session 1 – excellent grip & performance5. “Get re-acquainted with the car & track & tires”… Didn’t take long – at speed in 4 laps.6. Measure & record HOT TP’s: About 41PSI HOT just off track

The new “Track Camber” settings have made a significant improvement in tire wear pattern.Front temps were quite even across the tire and the outer shoulder wear is gone.RR temps were even across the tire. LR had about 10 deg variance.(measure surface only with IR gun.)

7. Inspect Genesis Brake Temp Paint: “Instantly” >800C, 1400F !!! Note: These same temps were achieved when I completed the brake bedding process 9/1/2018

8. Day 1 Session 2 – Hot lap session - - RESET Harry’s (Got good lap time data with HLP & iPhone)Want to compare times & data with 2016 info, ANFD evaluation of Pirelli Trofeo’s.

1. ADD 3gal gas tank to 5/8 (est 8gal, only 5-6 useable) Use 100+ Octane unleaded RACE FUEL! 2. Measure & record TP’s – 41PSI - should be 35ish after cooling form Hot PSI3. Pirelli Trofeo track session 2 – excellent grip & performance (best times at 2:04 (VB=2:04)4. 7-8 Hot Laps Turned the quickest recorded lap times on the Trofeo’s5. Sport+ by accident.

Chad says that the best lap times should come in Sport+ when the battery is fully charged, but you only have 2-3 laps to do this. Track mode might not be as fast as Sport+ but on the long run it is consistently better but will probably slightly slower. Interesting information coming from an NSX project R&D engineer who spent 5 years on the chassis vector development, and who races & has won in track prepped NSX.

Made Decision final decision to run DAY 1, four session with the Pirelli Trofeoand switch to the Hoosiers for Day 2.

Day 1 Session 3 – Continue on the Pirelli Trofeo – working very well DID NOT GET Harry’s session DATA

1. ADD 6gal gas tank to 5/8 Use 100+ Octane unleaded RACE FUEL! 2. Measured 41+/- HOT off track3. Pirelli Trofeo track session 3 – excellent grip & performance4. 7-8 Hot Laps Thought it was faster but no Lap Data (GPS sensor issue!)

Inspect REAR BRAKE PADS for temp taper & wearFlipped Pads due to .4-.7mm taper! (Leasing to trailing edge)Cannot do anything about inside to outside taper…

Day 1 Session 4 –- Drive around laps with Richard SpencerAGAIN, DID NOT GET Harry’s session DATA

1. ADD 4gal gas tank to 5/8 Use 100+ Octane unleaded RACE FUEL! 2. Pirelli Trofeo track session 4 – excellent grip & performance but not at full speed3. 4-5 Hot Laps Thought it was faster but no Lap Data (GPS sensor issue!)

5


Day 2 on Hoosier R7’s

Day 2 Session 1 - warm up session - - RESET Harry’s & it worked today – good data1. ADD 5gal gas tank to 5/8 (est 8gal, only 5-6 useable) Use 100+ Octane unleaded RACE FUEL!2. Tire pressures cold to be set at 30 PSI and check HOT off track: 41-41PSI3. Hoosier R7 track session 1 – excellent grip & performance 1 sec faster than Trofeo4. End of Session: Measure & record TP’s: 41-42 HOT set at 41

Day 2 Session 2 – Hot lap session - - RESET Harry’sI’m comfortable & push for competitive lap times to compare data with 2016 info, and yesterday’s evaluation of Pirelli Trofeo’s.

1. ADD 5gal gas tank to 5/8 (est 8gal, only 5-6 useable) Use 100+ Octane unleaded RACE FUEL! Measure & record TP’s – 41ish PSI

2. 6-8 Hot Laps… more traffic today…3. Track Mode4. Hoosier R7’s are excellent. Turn the best times recorded during the event, as expected.5. Tire Vs lap times:

Conti5 about 2:07’sPirelli Trofeo about 2:04Hoosier R7 about 2:02 (VB=2:00) (estimate this could be 1:58 with fresh brakes)

6. Plan to go fastest in S3 after lunch break.

Day 2 Session 3 - FINAL TEST SESSION - - RESET Harry’s This is the last data point so push for competitive lap times

HAMMER TIME!1. ADD 5gal gas tank to 5/8 (est 8gal, only 5-6 useable) Use 100+ Octane unleaded RACE FUEL!2. 5-6 Hot Laps Brake System Alarms & degraded braking – Due to overheating!3. Brakes prevented completing faster lap times4. Measure & record TP’s – now running 42-44PSI – a little too high reset to 415. Decided that I will not do anymore Hot Laps with these brakes this weekend.

Day 2 Session 4 - FINAL SESSION - - RESET Harry’s “Drive around laps with Vincent V)1. ADD 7gal gas tank to 5/8 went back to normal “street gas” 91 oct2. Braking was back to “normal” after everything cooled down3. Measure & record TP’s – now running 42-44PSI – a little too high reset to 414. 5-6 t Laps in “ride along mode” (2:08!)

END of DAY Maintenance Will done at homeLoad up & head home.

6


180928 AFTER Track Days - Set is worn out after 2 days-7 sessions-150 miles

The rear brakes overheat. The fronts are ok. I got a “long” brake pedal & warnings in the 3rd session after lunch on the 2nd day.. At the end of the 2nd day, I had overheating alarms and a “long” brake pedal.My lap times were quicker on Hoosier R7’s so this adds to the overheating problems but is not the fundamental issue.Tire Vs lap times:Conti5 about 2:07’sPirelli Trofeo about 2:04Hoosier R7 about 2:00 (estimate this could be 1:58 with fresh brakes)

I believe insufficient cooling is the basic problem. Larger brakes/pads would also help.(This is my best guess on why I get all the taper: In to Out taper & Leading to Trailing edge taper.)

I was pushing to get below the 2:00 lap time. I was unable to do this because I ran out of good braking. This time I knew what to expect & the feeling when the braking fell off from optimum.

The prior track event (12/31/2016) was on Conti’s & 8 sec slower, yet I experience the same alarm and same type of brake pad wear & taper. At the 1st Track Day, I had less taper & wear only because I ran it half the miles I did during this NSZPO 2-day event.I did not understand what was happening the first time, but now I have confirmed the sequence of event and what will happen when the rear brakes overheat.

Another interesting thing that occurs is that the pad material or “dust” has filled, and blocked every single cross vent hole in the rotors. This obviously added to the overheating issues.(This did not occur during the 1st track day with less miles)

Fortunately, the rotors, after cleaning appear to be fine & are not damaged.

After TWO Track Day events:12/31/2016 Thunderhill 3.0CW, 3 sessions, & 75 miles.9/26-27/2018 Thunderhill 3.0CW bypass, 7 sessions &140 track miles.

Conclusion: (Track & relative track time dependent)For good brakes at a track day is to understand that a maximum of 6 sessions, 125 miles, is available only if new pad, pre-bedded pads are installed.

7


8


CC Brakes continue to be a problem at a “Track Day”, if you want to push the performance of the car.I wore out the NEW set of carbon ceramic brakes pads installed for this event.

181001 Brake PAD (street) at 7000mi reinstalled

9


HPDE DATA & INFOTire Test – Lap timest

10


HPDE DATA & INFOTire Test – Track Map & Lateral G’s: Conti 5’s Vs Hoosier R7’s

11


OLD Notes from 1st TH track day 2016Handling in Track mode:

1. I did not like it taking control under off throttle turn in, but it just might be me& off camber T3…

2. Handling under deceleration turn in significantly different and uncontrollable unless I got back on the gas.

3. The Braking was significantly different. It seemed that the brake pedal pressure required was about 50% more pedal pressure for the same braking.

Decisions going into 3rd test session1. I accomplished what I wanted to do.

a. Quickly comfortable driving the track at speedb. Quickly comfortable driving the NSX – absolutely fun to do!c. Sports+ mode brakes are incredibly great!d. Acceleration is OMG fast!e. Suspension in Track mode – Rear gives out 1st – car will push in off camber turnsf. Track mode is very different and really need some more time.

2. Decided to back off and try Sports+ & Track modes in same session #3.3. Tires are pretty much at their limit. I would change type of tires, IF I were going to test

significantly more.4. Current stock suspension is very good and satisfactory for an infrequent track day…

Session 3 1. 5 hot laps – I was quickly at speed on L2 and did 2 fast laps – hard on the car at the limit all

session.2. Low fuel warning at end of L4-5 3. System Failures at end of L5 & shut down coasted into Paddock

I had fuel starvation and multiple system alarm.I had a misfire idling in the pits – would not shift…added 3 gallons of gas and miss went away but multiple alarms stayed.

4. I also had multiple brake system warnings.5. Alarms displayed:

a. Engine!b. Power Steering (EPS) problemc. Power Systemd. Brake Systeme. Fuel – even after adding 3 gallons and it was running ok.f. Park brake alarmg. Hill Hold brake alarmI don’t think there are any more alarms to display!

6. I think the fuel ran out and the brakes overheating about the same time.7. I thought I had enough for 8 more laps. I was wrong. The fuel gauge is not that precise.

12


26 laps x 4mpg is 100+ miles & I only had 24 miles is S1, and 24mi in S2, and 16 mi in S38. I did 3 laps in Track mode and the brakes felt more normal but required more pedal pressure.9. I slowed to a “normal pace” on the front straight to switch to Sport+ mode,

(The mode will not switch at fast speeds).I got a low fuel alarm on the next lap on the front straight

10. On the “last lap”, in Sport+ the brakes were much more sensitive and I would lock them on occasion. I had the fuel alarm on that lap but no other problems. (Low fuel comes on at 30mi left on the street).

11. Then everything went into alarm out of T13, near the end of the lap.

Clearing the alarms at the end of S3:1. All alarms were enabled… I mean ALL ALARMS as I rolled into the pits.2. Car was idling & running rough.3. Slowly went to the gas pumps & turned off. Added 3 gallons & restarted.4. Car idled smoothing but still had fuel alert and most all other alerts.5. Drove slowly thru the pits and parked… seemed ok but “wanted service”6. Concerned if they would clear and I could be able to drive home.7. Decided to recycle the system multiple times and did this 5 -10 times over 5 minutes.8. Most all alarms cleared out except brake alarms (park! & brake system.)9. Decided to wait 10 min and pack up to leave.10. About 10 min later recycled again and had Ready to Drive & ALL alarms had cleared.11. Drove around, tested accel & braking, and all seemed normal without alarms.

Drove home & all system function seems totally normal.Tire performance:

1. I’ve never driven on track with “street tires” so I was clueless. 2. I started at 30PSI but it was only 40 degrees at 9AM. The track was wet & drying from early rain.3. End of session TP’s were 38 all around. Felt like it might be too low but no change.4. S2 started about 34ish (no TP changes) & ended at 41PSI on all. Talked to some friends but no

real idea… maybe higher?5. Most other participants were on higher performance tires…6. Last session, S3 ran the same TP’s but too busy to measure at the end… other problems…

Tires felt a little greasy, but I was lapping faster all session.7. I think the Conti’s performed very well.

a. Tire wear was good. b. Temps across the tires seems pretty even with an IR gun.c. Again, everything cools down fast on a cold day & track.d. RF shoulder shows most wear, as expected on the CCW track. e. All 4 tires are being “worked” hard…

8. Brakes temps:a. Again, everything cools down fast on a cold trackb. Relative IR numbers show the brake pad backing about 500+F in front, and about 600F

in the rear. c. Entry edges of the rear pads were about 30+ degrees higher than the trailing edges.

9. I will check the brake pad wear taper at home. I measured them BEFORE I went to the track…

13


Another NSX owner, with more test time reports excessive wear at the rears and lots of pad taper… I did not have that much track time so I should have much less wear.(SEE BRAKE RESULTS ON PAGE 4)

10. Total mileage on track was about 75 miles, 25 laps, 50-60 minutes, and a full tank of gas!(I would need another 20-40 laps to settle in with the car to do my best…)I was pleased with my consistency in a new and totally different car on the track.

This car is great to drive, but probably has marginal brake cooling for track use.I don’t think it’s quite a track ready car.It was a very cool day with great track condition & the track surface was excellent. Should have made great HP.

I don’t think one could drive this car for 45 minutes.I believe it would be into brake temp problems, and run out of gas.

With more track time & a better rhythm, I might be easier on the brakes. But, I would also be going faster all the time, which would end up being harder on the brakes, at the limit all the time…

In conclusion, it is a remarkably wonderful handling car, and it’s so much fun to drive. It was fun to get to run it up to its limits.I would do this again at a different track, just for the experience.And, it would be fun to do this again with a good set of performance tires, but I would run only 5-6 lap sessions due to lack of brake cooling.Disappointment: Could not hear the car at speed, but multiple reports that it really sounds fantastic on the track at speed… Just like all the comments on its looks… Amazing Machine….

Monitored Tire wear

Measured with dial calipers but difficult to measure, especially with built up.

The OEM Conti tires performed well with acceptable wear patterns.

My conclusion For Track Testing:I think the fronts could use a more camber.I think all the brakes need lots more cooling.(Try this in the 100degree summer days & you would have to park it in 4 laps.)Or, you could just slow down ;-)I think a performance tire would make a big improvement, and the brakes would get even warmer…I would never go out with less than ½ tank of gas (about 10 laps, 30 mi range)I would like to turn off whatever rear traction control is being used in track mode, or have it explained in detail how it should be used…Don’t do this too often because it is addictive…

No dings, no dents, no agricultural racing… near perfect day… too much fun.

14


T. DuderJan 2, 2017

15


16

gen 2 nsx wiki · web viewthis will be my 2nd track day outing with the 2017 acura nsx i have...

Documents