haase, leslie | testimony transcript, 11-20-13

Transcript of the Testimony of Leslie Haase

Date: November 20, 2013Volume: I

Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: December 1, 2013

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.Phone: 417-358-4078

Fax: 417-451-1114Email:[email protected]

Internet:

Leslie Haase In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

417-358-4078

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.

Page 1

IN RE: JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

LESLIE HAASE

Taken on Wednesday, November 20, 2013, from 4:24 p.m. to

5:20 p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC,

626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper,

State of Missouri, before

SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650,

a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and

for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.

Leslie Haase

In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

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APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE

Loraine & Associates, LLC

4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300

Osage Beach, MO 65065

[email protected]


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S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that this Sworn

Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by

SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and

afterwards reduced into typewriting.

It is further stipulated that the signature of the

witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of

said witness shall be of the same force and effect as

though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.


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I N D E X

Page/Line

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-2

E X H I B I T S

Exhibit #35 . . . . . . . 7-24

Lane Roberts pension

Exhibit #36 . . . . . . . 9-4

Suite analysis

Exhibit #37 . . . . . . . 10-14

6/13/13 building permit fee

Exhibit #38 . . . . . . . 16-4

Spreadsheet for Firestone and Goodyear

Exhibit #39 . . . . . . . 16-13

Goodyear tire notes

Exhibit #40 . . . . . . . 18-23

Spreadsheet for Firestone and Goodyear

Exhibit #41 . . . . . . . 22-11

Fire Station 2 storm water expenses

Note: Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken

(ph.) - phonetic


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1 LESLIE HAASE

2 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE:

3 Q. Ms. Haase, you're back to see me with a

4 confidential envelope. Does it contain all

5 the items we talked about?

6 A. It does. I can explain it to you.

7 Q. Let's take it open and see that. You can go

8 ahead and open that up. You're still under

9 oath, you understand that?

10 A. Yes, sir. Sir, Item 1 is the pension.

11 Q. This involves Lane Roberts?

12 A. Right, this is the missed pension deduction

13 on the Chief. The amount yesterday is not

14 right, it was $35,000.00. And here is the

15 agreement that we entered into on August

16 28th. It says you will repay $337.30 a month

17 for 104 pay periods and that was signed by me

18 and the Chief.

19 Q. Has that been accomplished?

20 A. It has and here is the proof of that so these

21 are all payrolls where we were taking it out.

22 Q. Is this extra copies for me?

23 A. This is for you. And then he right here

24 wrote a check for $7,700.00 and this was the

25 spreadsheet. Here's a copy of that check


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1 that he wrote or where we posted the check.

2 So what happened when we caught it what I did

3 is calculate what it should have been and his

4 normal amount, the reason it was so hard to

5 catch it up, his normal pension amount at

6 almost 20 percent was $638.93 so basically we

7 just almost took about half of that so that's

8 kind of how we landed on that amount. Then I

9 went ahead and brought --

10 Q. I want to see a checkstub. Is this one?

11 A. No, this is just a copy from our tax

12 receipts.

13 Q. My understanding is the checkstub on the

14 bottom shows what the withdrawals are that

15 the employee gets?

16 A. Yes, well, --

17 Q. And this employee was aware that he had a

18 pension plan?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And did you deliver a copy of this Employment

21 Repayment Agreement to his file for the

22 personnel director?

23 A. I assume that I did. That was a long time

24 ago. But, yeah, the City Attorney I assume -

25 I'm sure H.R. got a copy and we had a copy


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1 for payroll.

2 Q. Do I look for that or are you certain?

3 A. Well, this is it.

4 Q. I understand. What I'm asking is a copy of

5 this in Mr. Roberts' personnel file?

6 A. You can double check. That would be my

7 normal course of action that I would do is

8 give them a copy.

9 Q. That would be normal for you to do that?

10 A. That would be my normal course. I assume

11 that I did it, but I can't swear that I did

12 it. I mean I can't.

13 Q. Now when you did this were you under any

14 pressure from City Manager Rohr?

15 A. I was not. I also brought you - we did an

16 annual audit and this is our management

17 letter of things we did wrong and they did

18 make note of that in that audit that year.

19 Q. Okay. Thank you. This is where you've got

20 an arrow?

21 A. Yeah, so you can have all that.

22 Q. I'm going to call this Exhibit, they're

23 premarked but we don't know what they are so

24 we're making it #35. Now, ma'am, I've got

25 something marked now which is Exhibit #35.


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1 This is the stuff that you brought me for

2 today consisting of 4 pages plus an audit

3 report on Mr. Roberts' repayment of a pension

4 issue?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. And that's marked Exhibit #35?

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. Thank you, ma'am. What else do you have?

9 A. You asked me for the suite analysis on the

10 Building Department issue, the money, the

11 $150,000.00 missing money issue, so this is

12 the report that HGE came out with and it's

13 pretty self-explanatory as you read it. I

14 think I circled the ones that are the issues

15 at the time.

16 Q. Page 2-2 is one circled? You might want to

17 point those out for me.

18 A. Yeah, there.

19 Q. 8-3, 8-9.

20 A. And then what I did is brought you my

21 analysis afterwards. Remember the City

22 Manager directed me to drill down into it and

23 do some research and this is my notes about

24 that.

25 Q. You called this document a Suite Analysis for


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1 Community Development Land Management. Is

2 that the right title to this?

3 A. That is the right title.

4 Q. We're going to mark that #36. Has that been

5 done?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Now what is #36 exactly?

8 A. That is if you'll recall what I said is the

9 IS Director asked our software company,

10 Sunguard HGE, to come in and basically just

11 analyze the operations of the Billing

12 Department and Code Enforcement, and this is

13 their report. In this report is where they

14 pulled the open building permits and opening

15 code enforcement cases and it details those

16 dollar amounts.

17 Q. There was a deficiency initially in the paper

18 of $150,000.00?

19 A. No, their deficiency is more than that. It

20 was - I have those numbers circled. It's

21 $213,155.00.

22 Q. That's on building permits?

23 A. Building permits. These are permits that

24 hadn't had any - they were still active, but

25 hadn't had any activity in 6 months. That's


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1 a different issue. Code enforcement was

2 $229,589.00.

3 Q. This was not money missing?

4 A. No.

5 Q. These were fees not collected?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And part of the problem with this was because

8 there was inadequate training on the forms?

9 A. Yes, there were many different things

10 detailed in my spreadsheet as to why the

11 amount got down to this amount.

12 Q. Now I'm going to ask you in regards to #36

13 you gave me a one page analysis that's now

14 marked #37. When did you prepare this?

15 A. June 14th, 2013.

16 Q. Now the notes have 9 notes. This as to the

17 discrepancy that is noted in #36?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Now as to the actual amount of fees that

20 finally were determined to be outstanding and

21 not collected, what was that sum?

22 A. In building permits it was the $43,172.75.

23 Q. And that's as opposed to what was reported as

24 $157,585.25?

25 A. Right, which is different from this report


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1 because that balance changes every day, so by

2 the time I ran it this was the open amount.

3 Q. The $157,000.00 versus --

4 A. The $213,000.00.

5 Q. The $213,000.00 that was reported in Exhibit

6 #36?

7 A. Right. This was in April, I think.

8 Q. With that you're referring to Exhibit #36?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Now this was building fee and code

11 enforcement?

12 A. No, this only analyzed building permits.

13 Code enforcement we didn't really analyze.

14 Those were just ones that never got sent to

15 the Finance Department to be billed.

16 Q. I'm going to put a scratch through the code

17 enforcement portion and I want you to put

18 your initials by that scratch.

19 A. Well, I say that. I made one note about code

20 enforcement that detailed the amount so this

21 amount plus this would have been the

22 $150,000.00.

23 Q. Okay. Circle Number 9 and go ahead and make

24 your notation there that you're putting your

25 initials.


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1 A. (Witness complies)

2 Q. And what else?

3 A. I'm just saying this is the code enforcement

4 information.

5 Q. So this report does, in fact, then deal with

6 building permits as well as code enforcement?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. All right. As I understand this was there

9 ever a retraction in the newspaper or

10 anything that the problem reported was not,

11 in fact, the numbers that we have analyzed?

12 A. No, the numbers that were reported in the

13 newspaper are these numbers, the $150,000.00.

14 It wasn't the higher amount from this

15 report.

16 Q. All right. And of that it boils down to

17 outstanding of $43,172.00?

18 A. On building, and $110,000.00 on code

19 enforcement.

20 Q. So I subtract the $43,000.00 from the

21 $157,000.00 that gives me the amount

22 outstanding?

23 A. No, the $43,000.00 is the amount that was not

24 billed. These are all errors that were shown

25 on the open report, ones that were voided and


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1 reissued and they didn't know how to properly

2 show the other ones as not open anymore, and

3 then we had ones that were straight errors

4 like I told you where they typed in the

5 address and the amount so it made it a great

6 big one, well, that would be that one. So

7 they were just ones as I went through them it

8 was plain to see that they were errors and

9 they did not know how to clean them up.

10 Q. So really the only issue is the $43,172.75?

11 A. On the building permit side. We still had

12 the $110,000.00 on the code enforcement that

13 was never billed.

14 Q. Now this report, was this ever given to the

15 Personnel Director, was that Cody? What's

16 his name?

17 A. Steve Cope, yes. Yes, I was in the

18 interviews with Steve Cope and went over this

19 information with Steve Cope.

20 Q. So is this the reason why he was let go or is

21 there other reasons?

22 A. Well, I --

23 Q. If you know.

24 A. I can only give you my opinion on what I

25 know. My opinion is that this was the last


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1 straw on Mr. Cope. There had been many other

2 things, in fact, as I told you since then,

3 which the media does not know, but since then

4 we've found checks in his office, a stack of

5 checks like this high (indicating), that were

6 never deposited from maybe 2006 to 2009 or

7 '10 that he just never deposited. He just

8 sat on and never sent through to be

9 deposited.

10 Q. Do you have any explanation for that?

11 A. My only explanation would be you're not doing

12 your job.

13 Q. All right. Now what else do we have?

14 A. Then you asked me to give you some

15 information on the tires so I have some

16 different things here. First of all we ran

17 you just a vendor activity listing for

18 Firestone and Goodyear for different years,

19 and it gives you a total. So for Firestone

20 this is 2013, and if you go to the bottom of

21 it you can see that we spent almost

22 $47,000.00 in 2013 so far with Firestone. In

23 2012 we spent just over $38,000.00 with

24 Firestone. In 2011 we spent just under

25 $34,500.00. In 2010 with Firestone we spent


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1 almost $22,000.00. And in 2009 we spent

2 $19,500.00. In 2008 we spent $9,052.00. And

3 then we showed you Goodyear. 2013 we spent

4 $7,232.00 with Goodyear. 2012 we spent just

5 over $14,000.00 with Goodyear. 2011, which

6 would be the year of the tornado, we spent

7 $16,200.00. 2010 with Goodyear we spent

8 $19,500.00. 2009 we spent $28,724.00 with

9 Goodyear. 2008 we spent almost $22,500.00.

10 Q. What's your conclusions?

11 A. Well, you can clearly see that after the

12 tornado we did more business with Firestone

13 than we did Goodyear, but I have other

14 information for you. We just did a breakdown

15 of the tire and alignment jobs completed by

16 Firestone, Reeves, and Goodyear, and I

17 believe this was we looked at 2010, '11, and

18 '12. I think that might be useful. But,

19 also, when we discovered that the Police

20 Department had stopped using Goodyear and was

21 using Firestone we contacted Goodyear and

22 these are the notes on that.

23 Q. I'm going to mark these separately. I'm

24 going to call this a spreadsheet, I don't

25 know what else to call them, that details the


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1 expenditures with Firestone and Goodyear

2 since 2008 to the present time?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. That would be marked Exhibit #38, is that

5 correct?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And your conclusion is that Firestone has

8 lost business?

9 A. No, Goodyear has lost business.

10 Q. I mean Goodyear has lost business?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. That's Number #38. I'm going to now mark the

13 Goodyear notes Exhibit #39, and this was in

14 some kind of notes in what file?

15 A. This is where we were looking at the garage

16 overall, the garage operations. We noticed

17 that the Police Department was not using

18 Goodyear so we just called Goodyear to ask

19 them why.

20 Q. And what did he say in this #39? This is the

21 manager of the Goodyear?

22 A. Uh-huh.

23 Q. What did he say?

24 A. The service manager at the 7th Street

25 Goodyear said that he had done all the tire


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1 balancing and alignments on our cars up until

2 2 to 3 years ago. He did not know why the

3 garage stopped bringing in the cars. He

4 indicated they used to have 3 to 4 cars every

5 day in the shop from the City of Joplin and

6 then one day it stopped with no explanation

7 from the garage. Mr. Stevens said he assumed

8 Firestone was giving the City a better deal

9 on tires and that the reason they were no

10 longer getting the business per Mr. Stevens

11 the garage did not request tires to carry out

12 of the store and keep on hand at the garage.

13 We were asking them several questions, but

14 that's the pertinent part.

15 Q. What is your conclusion?

16 A. Well, I mean Mr. Rohr told me.

17 Q. To stop using?

18 A. Well, he told me right after the tornado to

19 stop using them, but also as a result of this

20 he told me, because I hadn't because I had

21 forgotten the other, I said, well, we stopped

22 using Goodyear and we're using Firestone and

23 he very clearly said, well, that was because

24 of me.

25 Q. Because of Mr. Rohr?


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1 A. Yes.

2 Q. So Mr. Rohr has confused business with

3 personal matters, is that true? Is that a

4 conclusion we can make from this?

5 A. I believe so.

6 Q. And to the extent that it's cost Goodyear

7 money, quite a bit of money, is that right?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And the reason that was stopped was because

10 Mr. Rohr was not satisfied with an answer one

11 of the people at Goodyear gave him to give

12 him some kind of special treatment as to

13 fixing his tires, is that right?

14 A. All he said to me right after the tornado is

15 we're not going to do business with Goodyear

16 because they did not fix my tires.

17 Q. All right. And that's what this conclusion

18 is about here?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Now this tire alignment, what is the dollar

21 amount involved? You've got a number of

22 pages on this spreadsheet and we'll mark it

23 as Exhibit #40, and if you will give me an

24 analysis of what this says?

25 A. Basically this is just telling you all of the


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1 jobs from November 1st, 2010 through May

2 31st, 2013 of the tire and alignment jobs

3 completed by Firestone, Reeves, and Goodyear.

4 Basically we were doing a different project.

5 We were looking at how many tires were being

6 used so that's all that this is.

7 Q. It doesn't help us in any other way other

8 than the fact that this is a background as to

9 the kind of business they were getting

10 before?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And they were getting substantial business

13 and then it went to nothing for Goodyear?

14 A. Yes, for the Police Department, yes.

15 Q. Of the Police Department. And the Police

16 Department is under Lane Roberts' control,

17 which is directly under City Manager Rohr,

18 right?

19 A. Yes, although the Police Department does not

20 buy the tires directly themselves. They go

21 through the central garage which is under

22 Public Works, was under Public Works at that

23 time.

24 Q. Which is now under Mr. Rohr?

25 A. Yes.


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1 Q. And that was a change?

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. And who was it under before?

4 A. The Public Works, David Hertzberg.

5 Q. So your conclusion is that Mr. Hertzberg

6 might not have been able to be directed the

7 way Rohr wanted him to be, but now it's in a

8 different department where it can be directed

9 the way he wanted it to be. Is that a

10 correct statement? Is that a conclusion

11 that's valid?

12 A. No, I can't make that conclusion.

13 Q. But nevertheless that's the result is less

14 business because Mr. Rohr has said that?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Okay. Now, Leslie, what else did you give

17 me?

18 A. You asked me to look into the storm water at

19 Fire Station 2, so I have a report for you

20 that shows the expenses that come out of the

21 storm water, they're the highlighted ones,

22 and the total is $118,527.00.

23 Q. That was consistent with what I had talked

24 with you about.

25 A. I found out I talked to our engineer that


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1 handles our storm water --

2 Q. Who is that?

3 A. Dan Johnson. And I have more information

4 about what transpired.

5 Q. Give me some more information.

6 A. So when we started working on the plans for,

7 and this is all according to Dan Johnson,

8 when we started working on the plans for the

9 fire station Dan and Jack Schaller and Mitch,

10 they were all meeting and discussing the

11 plans and the design and the storm water

12 subject came up and Dan said, well, what we

13 need to do is we need to make the channel

14 wider and we need to let the flow of the

15 water go through the ditch and we need to

16 concrete it, so that was his solution. And

17 what he told me is that Mitch and Jack both

18 said, well, Mitch said the City Manager will

19 not like that. That won't fly with the City

20 Manager, and Jack said, yeah, that won't fly

21 with the City Manager. So Dan said, well,

22 this is the most cost effective way to do

23 this to get the water flowing.

24 Q. His proposal?

25 A. Right.


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1 Q. Which is the open storm sewer?

2 A. Right. So Mitch, according to Dan, Mitch and

3 Jack agreed to go meet with the City Manager

4 and talk to him about what he wanted to do

5 and they came back and told Dan. Now Dan was

6 not at that meeting, but they came back and

7 told Dan that the City Manager did not want

8 to do the open ditch, he wanted to do a box

9 culvert.

10 Q. And that way cost the City the yellow things

11 that you've underlined on Exhibit #41 which

12 amounts to $118,527.45?

13 A. Yes. Now he did not tell me how much the

14 open ditch would have been, but he said this

15 was considerably more expensive.

16 Q. Yes. So the question I have is on Station

17 No. 2 concerning this box culvert and all the

18 expenses around that which includes rental of

19 equipment, too, doesn't it to handle it, --

20 A. Uh-huh.

21 Q. -- so those numbers amount to $118,527.00.

22 How did that square away with the budget item

23 for this particular station? How was that

24 absorbed by that budget?

25 A. Well, we did not include this work to be - we


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1 didn't include this in the fire station

2 rebuild, so like I said they came to me,

3 Mitch and Jack came to me and all they said

4 to me was, you know, we've got extra expenses

5 on storm water that we didn't anticipate, you

6 know, what's your suggestion for paying for

7 this. And I told them, you know, well, this

8 would be an appropriate expense from the

9 annual maintenance on a storm water. I did

10 not know anything about the box culvert.

11 Q. So you were duped to the extent that you

12 didn't have all the information? Is that

13 right?

14 A. The problem that I have is I don't know if

15 when they came to me if they were only

16 talking about the widening at the channel or

17 if they already knew about the box culvert.

18 I really don't know. And the thing is that,

19 you know, department heads come to me all day

20 long every day saying, well, we don't have

21 money for this, where can we find money for

22 this, and this is what I do all day long.

23 And I can't honestly - I just don't remember

24 them telling me that we needed a box culvert

25 or that we were going to - all I remember is


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1 that they said we need some extra money for

2 storm water and I said, okay, well, you know,

3 we'll have to use storm water funds and it's

4 an appropriate use, it's not out of line, but

5 that's really all I remember.

6 Q. But what I'm hearing you tell me is Exhibit

7 #41 shows that it's not an appropriate use

8 the way it was done?

9 A. Well, after talking to Dan I mean he said

10 that we could have done it by the open

11 channel, you know, in a cheaper fashion.

12 Q. Well, save $118,000.00, right, less what the

13 open channel would be?

14 A. Right.

15 Q. I think he told me something like 20 or 25.

16 A. He did not tell me.

17 Q. Well, the fact remains that as this Exhibit

18 #41 would show that station is at least out

19 of budget by the number of $118,527.45 that

20 was not reported against that budget, isn't'

21 that true?

22 A. That would be true.

23 Q. And the City Council doesn't know that?

24 A. I guess that's true. I mean as far as I know

25 they did not take a green sheet for that.


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1 Q. What is a green sheet?

2 A. A Council bill.

3 Q. Okay. Now do you have specific knowledge -

4 I've been told that the City Manager directed

5 this transfer to be made. Do you know that

6 for sure or do you not know that for sure or

7 do you just not understand, do you not know?

8 A. I understand he never directed that of me.

9 As far as I know they came to me and they

10 said, hey, where we can get this money and I

11 said use storm water. If he directed

12 somebody it was not me.

13 Q. Okay. So if he told that to someone else the

14 City Manager did not tell that to you?

15 A. He did not.

16 Q. And if you would have known all the

17 conclusions that we've got on Exhibit #41

18 here you would not have done it that way?

19 A. I would have certainly had a conversation

20 with him.

21 Q. With the Manager?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And with the Council, if it was necessary?

24 It's over $90,000.00.

25 A. Yeah, I don't - if there had been a


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1 conversation with Council that would have

2 been his responsibility, not mine.

3 Q. Mr. Manager?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. I appreciate your efforts and #41 really

6 tells us that if an auditor was coming along

7 he would not know, he or she would not know

8 that the station could have been built

9 $118,527.45 cheaper less from that sum

10 whatever the open storm sewer would have

11 been, is that true?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And they also wouldn't know that this

14 $118,000.00 was taken from some other source?

15 I mean they wouldn't be able to follow that

16 trail, that paper trail?

17 A. No, they would because we say on here it's

18 for the fire station and they pull these

19 reports and they look at this stuff, so they

20 would be able to see that we spent storm

21 water at Fire Station 2.

22 Q. Okay. But the Council wouldn't know that

23 unless they asked the auditor to specifically

24 find that?

25 A. Yes.


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1 Q. Now I'm going to ask a question about that,

2 Leslie. There have been some conferences or

3 discussions that there is no auditing of

4 these various special accounts.

5 A. That's not true.

6 Q. Okay. Tell me about that.

7 A. Well, what special accounts?

8 Q. Well, special tax accounts like the storm

9 water sewer.

10 A. Yes, there is. There's actually several

11 things. First of all on the two taxes that

12 we have that are specifically - well,

13 actually three taxes that are specifically

14 for projects we have a list of projects that

15 we're supposed to do. Now annual maintenance

16 is in there and that covers a variety of

17 things. That's what we use to do our small

18 projects. The projects that are named are

19 usually large projects, but we always use

20 annual maintenance because we always have

21 small projects that come up that we need to

22 do. So there's a list that goes to the

23 voters, I mean the voters see it, it's not

24 part of the ballot, but the voters see it and

25 they know that's what they're approving and


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1 my job is to make sure that's what that money

2 is being spent on. And then to ensure that

3 I'm doing my job we have an oversight

4 committee that was appointed by the Council

5 that we have to give reports to to see how

6 we're spending this money.

7 Q. Who is the oversight committee?

8 A. It's a group of like 11 citizens.

9 Q. Who are they appointed by?

10 A. The Council. So like that meeting is

11 actually tomorrow. It's a quarterly meeting,

12 we meet tomorrow at 4:00 o'clock and we go

13 through - so we have a list of the projects

14 and then we show what the original estimated

15 cost was and we show what we spent, and then

16 that report goes to Council, also. And so we

17 have that first of all which is an extra

18 layer and they're looking at those three

19 taxes and how we're spending that money, and

20 then on top of that we have our annual audit

21 where the auditors are looking at things.

22 Q. What special accounts do you have?

23 A. We have five taxes. We have our 1 percent

24 general sales tax, we have another half cent

25 general sales tax that's actually for Public


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1 Safety. That's one of the special ones I

2 guess you would call it.

3 Q. Will that sunset?

4 A. That one does not sunset. We have our half

5 cent transportation sales tax which also does

6 not sunset. Then we have two that sunset,

7 that would be our parks storm warm sales tax,

8 and then our capital improvement sales tax.

9 Q. When do those last two sunset?

10 A. The one just sunset in - it was going to

11 sunset I think in 2012 and we voted, the

12 voters approved its renewal in 2011 right

13 after the tornado.

14 Q. For how long?

15 A. For another ten years. And then the CIP one

16 will expire January 1st of 2015. We're

17 hoping to have that election next August.

18 Q. If that doesn't pass?

19 A. We will be severely hampered in the street

20 projects that we can do.

21 Q. Is there an issue with spending? I mean

22 should we be relying on these special taxes

23 for spending?

24 A. Well, Joplin --

25 Q. Other than capital projects. I mean capital


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1 projects would seem to me that's what they're

2 designed for, a special tax.

3 A. And that's what we spend those on. It's just

4 annual maintenance in included in there in

5 all of them.

6 Q. So say, for example, these funds that were

7 used on this fire station here on Exhibit

8 #41, they were taken out of the sewer fund?

9 A. No, out of the storm water sales tax.

10 Q. The storm water tax. So that's a capital

11 project?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Was that capital project for the building of

14 Station No. 2? No would be the answer?

15 A. What?

16 Q. What you're showing me on #41 here is

17 additional costs for the building of Station

18 No. 2?

19 A. That is correct.

20 Q. Would this be a proper category for that

21 budget item to be assessed the way it was

22 assessed against the storm water?

23 A. Yes, I would not have said that if it was not

24 a proper expense from the storm water sales

25 tax. It is a storm water project. Now the


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1 question is to me, was it appropriate to use

2 a box culvert when it could have been

3 accomplished in a more efficient way, but

4 it's absolutely an appropriate expense from

5 storm water.

6 Q. Because it's a storm water issue?

7 A. Yes, because it's a storm water issue.

8 Q. It's just a question of should it have been

9 done cheaper?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And the answer generally would be yes

12 according to City practices?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Let me ask you this question. In fact, if

15 the City used the Public Works Department to

16 build this, --

17 A. Uh-huh, we do that all the time.

18 Q. -- which they did, they would save money?

19 A. Right, we do that all the time.

20 Q. And that's appropriate?

21 A. Yes, because we're saving taxpayer money by

22 doing it in house we can always do it

23 cheaper.

24 Q. Because a contract bid is going to be more?

25 A. Yes, it's just we usually don't have a lot of


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1 staff. That tax hired four people the first

2 time around and those four people, one of

3 their duties is to clean the ditches, to

4 clean the leaves out of the ditches, so when

5 they're not doing that then they have some

6 time to do some of the smaller projects.

7 Q. Okay. Leslie, has anyone contacted you about

8 you being with me?

9 A. No, sir.

10 Q. So you've not had any problems?

11 A. No, sir.

12 Q. You will tell me if you do?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Is there anything else we need to talk about?

15 A. No, I think that's it.

16 Q. Thank you for your time. I appreciate your

17 expertise and I think we've finally gotten to

18 the bottom of this.

19 (Short break taken 4:58 to 5:11 p.m., back on

20 record)

21 Q. (By Mr. Loraine) Before I let you go I've

22 been asked by some of the people I've

23 interviewed why the Mayor has changed her

24 vote when it came time for City Manager

25 Rohr's vote to ask him to leave, and I'm


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1 presuming he leaves without cause and he gets

2 paid whatever he's got coming, that's my

3 presumption, but if it's for cause I guess he

4 doesn't get paid. But as far as I'm

5 concerned the vote that was taken was really

6 without cause and he would have gotten paid.

7 So the question has been asked by several,

8 probably four or five people, why did the

9 Mayor change her vote, and I've been given

10 some reasons for that and I want to know if

11 there's any financial reason that you know of

12 since you write the checks. And one of the

13 things I've been told is that she has a loan

14 from the Chamber of Commerce/City funds, and

15 I don't believe that's true, but I wanted to

16 correctly find out what your information is

17 on that. Do you have any information on

18 that?

19 A. She has no loan from the City of Joplin.

20 Q. Okay. She does have a loan on a business. I

21 assume City Manager Rohr or the City of

22 Joplin has no control over that. That would

23 be your understanding?

24 A. Yes, that would be my understanding.

25 Q. Because you don't know of any such?


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1 A. Right.

2 Q. Do you know of any other reasons why City

3 Manager Rohr would possibly have some

4 information against the Mayor that he could

5 use as leverage in the way of expenditures?

6 Do you know of any other issue that might

7 shed light on that?

8 A. I do.

9 Q. This would be from your understanding of the

10 financial information?

11 A. Right, this would be something that came

12 through my office.

13 Q. Okay. What is it?

14 A. We received a check request from the City

15 Clerk's office to pay a bill, my best

16 recollection is over $600.00, to Charlie's

17 Chicken for a dinner for the funeral of one

18 of the Mayor's relatives that died recently.

19 That check request was brought to me and I

20 went to the City Clerk's office and said what

21 is this? We don't do this. And they informed

22 me that - now it is common for us - we've had

23 other Council members family pass away and we

24 do a little bit of something, maybe $100.00

25 or $200.00 worth, but nothing to this


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1 magnitude. And whenever this happened the

2 City Clerk was out and the Mayor called the

3 Assistant City Clerk and directed her to

4 order this dinner for her family.

5 Q. Who is the Assistant City Clerk?

6 A. Barb Gollhofer. Barbara Gollhofer.

7 Q. She works under?

8 A. Barb Hogelin.

9 Q. Hogelin, okay. So to some extent the Mayor

10 took a little bit of liberty, shall we say,

11 with the amount that might be donated towards

12 the relative's death, dinner for the guests?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And you would criticize the $400.00 sum? You

15 would criticize the whole $600.00, --

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. -- but you could understand there's precedent

18 in your business for some kind of gift?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Does the City Manager know that?

21 A. Yes, so my protocol is to inform both the

22 City Attorney and the City Manager, and I

23 did, and the City Manager took it up to the

24 best of my knowledge with the Mayor Pro Tem,

25 Bill Scearce, and I believe some co-Council


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1 members, I don't know which ones, paid a

2 portion of the bill and then the City paid a

3 smaller portion.

4 Q. So Bill Scearce and the City Manager were

5 aware of that issue?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Since it was repaid to the City do you see

8 anything illegal or unethical as a result of

9 the repayment?

10 A. Well, they didn't repay it. We never paid

11 the bill. They sent it through and we did

12 not process it so they just paid their part

13 directly. So, no, there's nothing in the end

14 that wound up being inappropriate on the

15 City's part.

16 Q. But that is at least an issue that

17 financially you have observed?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Is there any other issues?

20 A. Yes, there are other issues, the Mayor's

21 travel, there are from time to time issues

22 with the Mayor's travel with some

23 inappropriate expenses or expenses that are

24 not accurately accounted for. I mean we

25 don't get receipts if we need them. There


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1 have been things with travel that I have had

2 to report to the City Manager in the past and

3 the City pays the appropriate amount, but I

4 have had to report things to the City

5 Manager.

6 Q. So in other words there's been some issues in

7 the past on the Mayor's travel that may be

8 questionable that the City Manager has asked

9 you to pay it and he has taken the

10 responsibility for there being no receipts?

11 A. No, the City Manager didn't ask us to pay it,

12 because we're not going to pay it through the

13 Finance Department he has to let the Mayor

14 know that we're not going to do that. The

15 Council kind of adopted that policy that if

16 there's an issue with Council's travel

17 reimbursement the City Manager is to notify

18 the Mayor and then if the Council member

19 still doesn't agree with it they can take it

20 with the whole City Council group.

21 Q. In this case the Mayor was the person in

22 question so who does the Mayor consult with?

23 A. I think the Manager talked to the Mayor in

24 these cases. We did not pay anything

25 inappropriate, but he does have records of


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1 requests.

2 Q. Of her requests for payment?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Would you tell me how much that might be in

5 question?

6 A. I don't know because it's --

7 Q. Would it be more than $100.00?

8 A. It would be more than $100.00.

9 Q. Would it be more than $1,000.00?

10 A. It's possible.

11 Q. Probably not more than $5,000.00?

12 A. No.

13 Q. So at least there would be some appearance of

14 possibly a submission of cost without

15 receipts?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Now you know about that and the City Manager

18 knows about that. Does the Council know

19 about that?

20 A. I don't know. It's my job to report it to

21 the Manager.

22 Q. Anything else that you can recall that might

23 be out of the usual that might give the City

24 Manager some control over the Mayor?

25 A. I think that's all I can think of.


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1 Q. Okay. I thank you for your honesty. I

2 understand the problems. I'd like you to

3 keep what we say in this room and I ask you

4 once again that if you have any retaliation

5 or problems with anyone in complying with my

6 questions I'd want you to notify me

7 immediately, okay? Is that understood?

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. Thank you very much for your help.

10 A. Thank you.

11

12 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED)

13

14


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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI

ss.

COUNTY OF JASPER

I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the

State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the

foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the

20th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was

examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn

Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set

out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith

returned.

I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or

relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of

either party or of the attorney of either party, or

otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

__________________________

SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

haase, leslie | testimony transcript, 11-20-13

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