Dawoud Bey VISUALIZING MEMORY

By Susan Snodgrass

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Throughout a career that has spanned over forty years, Dawoud Bey has continuously redefined the photographic portrait—from his early black-and-white images of the faces of Harlem, to large-scale color Polaroids of urban youth, to symbolic portraits commemorating the young lives lost in the 1963 bombing of a church in Birmingham, Alabama. Whether working on the street, in the studio, or in residence with communities, Bey imbues his subjects with a psychological presence, while also challenging the formal traditions of photographic representation. In his most recent series, the human subject gives way to landscapes, both real and imagined, inhabited by narratives that speak to significant moments in African-American history. For Harlem Redux (2014-16),

recently shown alongside selections from Harlem, USA (1975-79) at the Kalamazoo Institute of Arts, Bey captures the social and spatial transformations happening in Harlem as a result of the gentrification that has also erased the remaining vestiges of this historic Black community’s cultural life. In his upcoming project for Front International: Cleveland Triennial for Contemporary Art, Bey explores the history of the Underground Railroad in Cleveland through a photographic installation of dark landscapes that reimagine the passage of fugitive slaves. I met with Bey, a recent recipient of the MacArthur Genius Grant, to discuss the role of memory and history in both bodies of work. The following interview has been edited for length.

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SUSANSNODGRASS:Youhavehadaprolificcareer,andwhilethereiscertainlyalotofworkthatwecoulddiscuss,Iwanttofocusonyourmorerecentprojects,beginningwithHarlem Redux(2014–16).Itis,inessence,areturntothesiteandsubjectmatterofHarlem, USA(1975–79),yourfirstphotographicseriesthatmarkedthebeginningofyourcareer.Howeverhere,weseeashiftfromportraitsofpeopletoaportraitofplace,fromtheinteriorlifeofthesubjecttoanexternalview.Whatwastheimpetusforthisseries?

DAWOUDBEY:Harlemisatthebeginningofmypersonalnarrative;mymotherandfathermetthere.EventhoughIneverlivedthere,Ihaveadeephistoricalandemotionalconnectiontotheplace.

Ihadbeen,ofcourse,inbetweentheearlyHarlem, USAwork,whichIbeganoverfortyyearsago,visitingHarlemperiodicallyoverthattime.OneofthethingsthatIbegantothinkaboutwasthefactthatHarlemhasundergoneseveralwavesofgentrification,withthiscurrentwavebeingthemosttransformativeintermsofradicallyreshapingthatcommunity.Iwantedto,reallyneededto,makesomeworkaboutwhatthatchangelookslike.Andtodosoasitishappening,asacommunitybeginstotakeonadifferentappearance—demographically,physically,socially—duetotheforcesofglobalcapitalismandsocialengineering,astheyplayoutonalocallevel.

SS:YoutalkaboutwitnessingthisgradualchangehappeninginHarlemovertheyears,yetitseemsthattherewassomeprofoundmomentoftransitionthatledyoutowanttomakethiswork.

DB:Thechangehadbecomemoreconcentrated,moreaccelerated,andmuchmoreconspicuouslyvisible,eventhoughithasclearlyhappenedinstages.ThechallengewastofindsomephotographiclanguagethatIcouldattachtothisnotionofchange,absence,lossandmemory.Howdoesonevisualizethat?IdidnotwanttomakecontemporaryportraitsofHarlem.Ididnotwanttomakeportraitsofthechangingdemographic,becauseIwasacutelyinterestedinthewaythespace

aroundthesubjectwouldbetransformed;thewaytheplaceitselfhastakenonaradicallydifferentappearance.

SS:FortheearlierHarlem, USAseries,youspentalottimewalkingaroundtheneighborhood,photographingpeopleyoumetthroughchanceencountersonthestreet.Inthisnewseries,youseemtousealotofframingdevices,lookingthroughwindows,lookingthroughfences.Therealsoseemstobemoreemphasisongeometryandpatterning.Inotherwords,theseimagesappearmorecomposed.

DB:Theyarespecificpiecesofinformationthatarepartofalargernarrative,tryingtoreveal,orgetunderneath,themeaningoftheseveryparticularsetsofshiftingrelationshipsthatweretakingplacewithinthegeography,orthetopography,oftheneighborhood.Emptylotsshowingupwheresomethingusedtobe.Ifthathappensincreasingly,thereisthisratherdisturbinglossof‘placememory.’Thingsdisappear,andafteratime,youcannotrememberwhatusedtobethere.Forme,thereissomethingprofoundlytragicaboutthat.Youhavethesetwopopulationscoexistinginaspace—apopulationthatknew,andapopulationthatneverknew;forthem,thisisnormal,andforthepopulationthathasbeenthere,piecesofthelivesthattheyhaveknownaredisappearing.Again,thechallengewashowtofindaconceptualandthenaformallanguagetotalkaboutthat.Ittookmeaboutayeartofigureitout,whichwasnotaneasytransition.

SS:Althoughthisworkcomesfromaverypersonalplace,itseemstobeasmuchaboutcollectivememoryasitisaboutpersonalmemory.DidyouspendanytimetalkingtootherpeopleinHarlemaboutthechangeshappeningintheneighborhood?Orwasthismoreofasolitaryquest?

DB:Itwasaprettysolitarykindofproject.Forexample,thereisaphotographthatImadeon125thStreetand5thAvenue.ItwasacornerthatIknewwell,rightacrossthestreetfromwheretheoriginalStudioMuseuminHarlemusedtobe.Iwastryingtorememberthenameoftherestaurantonthatcorner.So,Iamlookingaround,andIdonotseeanyoneremotelyoldenoughto

haveknownwhatwasonthatvacantlot,letalonethenameoftherestaurant.Theonepersonthatlookedliketheymightbeofacertainage,whenIaskedthem,hadnoideawhatIwastalkingabout.So,therewasthischallengeofmakingworkaboutmemory,inaplacewherethatcollectivememory,toacertainextent,nolongerexists.

Also,itwasnotreallynecessarytohavethoseconversationsinordertoshapethework,becauseIhadbeenkeepingupwithsomeofthechanges.WhenIreadthattheRenaissanceBallroom,awell-knownlandmarkinHarlem,wasabouttobedemolished,IwantedtogetbacktoHarlemintimetomakeaphotographofwhateverIfoundatthatpoint.Icouldnotpreordainwhatthephotographsweregoingtobe—Ijusthadtoputmyselfinthesituation,andthenrespondbymakingaphotographthathadsomekindofresonantform,andsomekindofmeaningfulnarrativeembeddedinthatform.

SS:Andsoyouemployedtheseframingdevices.AndintheRenaissanceBallroomphotograph,theactuallandscapeisoutoffocus.

DB:Yes.Iamconceptuallylessinterestedinthiskindof‘reveal-all’picture,thanIaminjustgivingthevieweraparticularpieceofit.Theemptinessofthatsite,framedbythisconstructionbarricade.Thereisalsoaverysubjectivekindofopticalityatworkinthesepictures,meaningthatIamtryingtoattachnotonlyaconceptualandformallanguagetothesechangingcircumstances,butalsoaheightenedopticalqualityofdescriptiontothisnotionofthedisappearing.Howdoyoudothatphotographically,becausephotographyisinherentlyaboutdescribingwhatisthere?

SS:Theideathatthisisanimageofaparticularplacebecomeslessimportantthancreatingaportraitaboutlossandmemory.Theimpactofsocialengineeringandgentrificationyoumentionedearlierisalsohappeninginotherurbanspaces.

DB:AndbecausemyattachmentistoHarlem,Icanspeakaboutthosecircumstancestothisplace.

“You have these two populations coexisting in a space—a population that knew, and a population that never knew; for them, this is normal, and for the population that has been there, pieces of the lives that they have known are disappearing.”

—DAWOUDBEY

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SS:Doyouseethisasanarchivalproject?

DB:Theworkfunctionsinmultipleways.Certainly,itisaboutthisparticularmomentinthiscommunity,sothereisadocumentaryaspecttoit.Itisalsoanentirelysubjectivetellingofthatmomentthroughthevisualpoeticsofthephotograph.

AsinthephotographsoftheLenoxLounge,onceasignificantculturalgatheringplaceinHarlemwherealotofwell-knownjazzmusiciansonceperformed.Iwantedtogetinsideofthesituation,todescribeitmaterially,todescribeitformally,tocreateaninterestingformthatalsohasacompellingnarrative.Iwantedtoenactmyownsubjectivityonthesubjectmatter,

withoutlosingsightofwhat’simportanthere.ThethreephotographsthatImadeofthatsiteoverafewyearsisprobablyoneofthemostextendedlooksataplacethatImade.TheLenoxLoungeisnowgone.Instead,thereisafour-storySephoraCosmeticstoregoingupinitsplace.Andthatisthenatureofchange.PeopleshoppingataSephoraonthesiteofaclubwhereMilesDavisperformedin1954.

SS:Relatedtothesubjectofmemory,tellmeaboutyourupcomingprojectforFrontInternationalopeninginClevelandthissummer.Hereyouarealsoworkingwithlandscapes,howeverunliketheurbanlandscapesofHarlem Redux,theselandscapesareimagined,althoughtheyarebasedonrealhistoricalevents.

DB:Actually,itwasThe Birmingham Project(2012)thatreallygotmethinkingabouthistoryandaboutthisideaofvisualizingplace.Howdoesonemakehistoryvisibleandresonantinthecontemporarymoment?Thisseriesisbasedon,butnotbeholdento,thehistoryoftheUndergroundRailroadinCleveland.So,inthatsense,itisnomoreadocumentaryprojectthantheHarlemworkis.Andagain,theworkisdrivenbymyownsubjectivities.

SS:HowdidtheFrontcommissioncomeabout?

DB:FredBidwell,whoisnowtheDirectorofFront,approachedmeafewyearsagoaboutcreatingsomeworkinCleveland.Istarteddoingsomeresearchanddiscovered

Cleveland’suniqueplaceinthehistoryoftheUndergroundRailroad.Wecontinuedourconversationandthenthetriennialprovidedastructure.BecauseFrontisgoingtobesituatedinbothtraditionalinstitutionalsettingsaswellasnon-traditionalsettings,theyaskedmetothinkaboutmakingworkforSt.John’sEpiscopalChurch,thelastso-calledstationontheUndergroundRailroadthatfugitiveslaveswouldstopatbeforemakingthepassageacrossLakeErietoCanada.

Atfirst,IwaskindofpushingbackbecauseIambasicallyawhite-boxartist,onewhomakesworkaboutthingsthatareentirelynon-whitebox,inordertobringthatworkandpieceoftheworldintothewhite-box

conversation.So,Iwentandlookedatthechurch,andultimatelycameupwiththisideaaboutdoinganinstallationofphotographsinthepews.Istartedtothinkaboutitasthisdarklandscapethatonewouldencounteruponenteringthechurch,whichyouwouldthenhavetogetclosertoandstandinthepewsinordertodiscoverexactlywhatwasinthephotograph.

SS:Youhaveworkedinblackandwhitebefore,buttheseimageshaveanatmosphericqualitythatharkensbacktonineteenth-centuryPictorialism.Isitthesilver-printprocess?

DB:Ihaveworkedinblackandwhite,butnotwiththiskindofintention.Thesilver

printsdefinitelyapproximatemorethematerialandobjectqualitybecausetheimagesitsinthesilverhalideparticlesofthepaper.Theexperienceactuallyhasevenmoreoftheillusionofphysicaldepth,asopposedtoinkthatsitsonthesurface.Iampushingalotofthingstothelimitmateriallywiththiswork.AndpartofwhatthePictorialistworkwasaboutwasamanipulationoftheconventionalphotographicmaterials,inordertocreateamoremateriallyexpressivephotographicobject,whichIamalsoengagingwithhere.

Ididnotwanttogothereandmakesomelarge-scale,brightlylitcolorphotographs.ThatseemedentirelycontrarytothenarrativeoftheUndergroundRailroad

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experience.Iwantedtomakephotographsthatembodied,spatiallyandmaterially,theexperienceoffugitiveslavesmovingthroughthedarknessofthelandscapeinthenineteenthcentury.ThisalsoledmebacktoRoyDeCarava’swork,theseverydarkphotographs,withtheAfrican-Americansubjectemergingthroughandoutofthedarknessofthephotographicspace.So,whatIamdoinghereiswrappingthisnarrativeoftheUndergroundRailroadandthisnotionofnighttimepassagearoundthismaterialconversationwithDeCarava’sphotographs.

SS:Tellmeaboutthetitleofthisproject,Night Coming Tenderly, Black.

DB:ItreferstothefinallineofLangstonHughes’poemDream Variations:“Nightcomingtenderly/Blacklikeme.”Thisnotionthatblacknesscanbeanuancedexperience,thatitcanbetender,thatitcanbethisspaceofliberationthroughwhichonemoves.Thetitleisawayofalludingtothat,andtoamorecomplexnotionofblackness.

SS:IseeconnectionsheretoThe Birmingham Project,inthatbothbodiesofworkmaterializemomentsinAfrican-Americanhistory,particularlyaroundhistoricaltrauma,whilealsooccupyinganebulousspacebetweenfactandfiction.Canyouspeaktothat?

DB:Conceptually,theyareverymuchrelated.Iamtryingtomakeanobjectthatalludestothepastandthepresent,simultaneously.SomeofthesesitesareactuallyapartofthenarrativeoftheUndergroundRailroad.Although,Iquicklyfoundout,asIdidafterspendingalotoftimeinBirmingham,thereisrealhistoryandthereismythichistory.Andsometimes,themythichasawayovertimeofmorphingintothereal.MostofwhatpassesforhistorywiththeUndergroundRailroadisactuallymythichistory.EspeciallyinCleveland,wherethereisverylittleremainingmaterialevidenceofthat.ThisledmetoHudson,Ohio,whichwaspartoftherouteintoClevelandandwherealotofthephysicalevidenceisstillintact.Forexample,JohnBrown’sTanneryHouseisstillthere.That

iswhythisworkisasmuchareimaginingofthelandscapeoftheUndergroundRailroad.Someofthelocationsarefactbased,othersarenot,orcouldhavebeen.ItisinCleveland;itisinHudson.ButthespecificsitesmatterlessthanwhatIcanmakeofthemvisually,especiallysinceTheUndergroundRailroaditselfwasnotapubliclyknownentity;itdependedonforitssuccessthesustainedsecrecyofthevarioussafehouses,andthesecretmovementthroughthelandscape.

SS:Tomakethiskindofworkyouneedtoembedyourselfwithinthephysicalandgeographicspacesyouarephotographing.EmbeddingyourselfinHarlemwasperhapseasierbecauseitisaplaceyouknowintimately.IamsureyouhavedoneseveralsitevisitstoCleveland,buthowdoyoupsychologicallygetintothatspace?

DB:Itisallaboutcontinuallyapplyingthenarrativetotheviewingexperienceandimaginingtheexperienceofafugitiveslavemovingthroughthislandscape,andthenmakingtheworkwithaclearsenseofpositionalityinrelationtothehumanbody.Beingmindfulthatthefinalimageswillbelargeandhaveaphysicalpresence(48x54inches),itwillbeenvelopinginscale,butaveryspecifickindofmaterialandphysicaldarkness.Itisdark,butyoucanseethings,youcanfeelthings.Thereisinformationthere…however,theultimateshapingoftheexperienceisentirelymine,anddonethroughthecameraandthematerial.Thathasalwaysbeentrue.Ithinkwiththiswork,thesesubjectivitiescomeevenmoretothefore.

SS:YourmonographSeeing Deeply (UniversityofTexasPress)isdueoutlaterthisyear,andin2020yourretrospectivesurveyopensatSFMOMA.Iamsureboththeseprojectsforceyoutoreflectonthewholeofyourcareer.Areyouseeingthetrajectoryofyourworkinadifferentlight?

DB:Onethingthatworkingonthebookmademerealizeisthatmyworkhasalwaysbeenaboutthevariablyintersectingrelationshipsbetweenthehumansubjectandthephysicalspacesthattheyinhabit.Therearesomanythingsgoingonatonetime;sometimesmoreabouttheperson,sometimesthespaceitself.Obviously,Iamexcitedaboutallofthepreviouswork,andtheabilitytogatheritalltogether,butrightnowIammostlyexcitedaboutwhattheUndergroundRailroadprojectbeginstoopenupforme—particularlyintermsofanotherwayofthinkingmateriallyabouttheworkthatImake.Alsocontinuingthisnotionofhowtoengagehistory,howtomakethepastresonate,inthecontemporarymoment,aroundsomeaspectofAfrican-Americanhistory.Wherethatwilltakeme,Idonotknow,butitgivesmeabigenoughframetooperatewithin.—FrontInternational:ClevelandTriennialforContemporaryArtwillrunfromJuly14–September30,2018.

PAGE89:Dawoud Bey, Former Renaissance Ballroom Site, 2015. 40 x 48 inches, Archival pigment print on dibond. Courtesy of the artist, Stephen Daiter Gallery, and Rena Bransten Gallery from Harlem Redux.—PAGE90&91:Dawoud Bey, West 124th Street and Lenox Avenue (Construction Sign), 2016. 40 x 48 inches Archival pigment print on dibond. Courtesy of the artist, Stephen Daiter Gallery, and Rena Bransten Gallery from Harlem Redux.—PAGE93:Dawoud Bey, Three Men and the Lenox Lounge, 2014. 40 x 48 inches, Archival pigment print on dibond. Courtesy of the artist, Stephen Daiter Gallery, and Rena Bransten Gallery from Harlem Redux.—PAGE94&95:Dawoud Bey, Girls, Ornaments, and Vacant Lot, 2016. 40 x 48 inches, Archival pigment print on dibond. Courtesy of the artist, Stephen Daiter Gallery, and Rena Bransten Gallery from Harlem Redux.

PAGE96:Dawoud Bey, Untitled #13 (Trees and Reflection), 2017. 48 x 54 inches, Gelatin silver print on dibond. Courtesy of the artist, Rena Bransten Gallery, and Stephen Daiter Gallery from Night Coming Tenderly, Black.—PAGE97:Dawoud Bey, Untitled #2 (Trees and Farmhouse), 2017. 48 x 54 inches, Gelatin silver print on dibond. Courtesy of the artist, Rena Bransten Gallery, and Stephen Daiter Gallery from Night Coming Tenderly, Black.—OPPOSITEPAGE:Dawoud Bey, Untitled #1(Picket Fence and Farmhouse), 2017. 50 x 60 inches. Gelatin silver print on dibond. Courtesy of the artist, Rena Bransten Gallery, and Stephen Daiter Gallery from Night Coming Tenderly, Black.