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Expert Interview with Dr. Mindy L. Gewirtz on “Coaching the Coach”

With Adina Morris Founder of CRDL Coaching LLC

August, 18th 2014

Dr. Mindy L. Gewirtz is an executive coach as well as a coach’s coach and is founder

and CEO of Collaborative Networks www.collaborativenetworks.net . She carries a dual

portfolio of entrepreneurship and twenty years experience coaching senior leaders and

top teams in global organizations including high-tech, clean-tech, financial services and

professional service firms. Her specialty is transforming cultures and developing high

potential talent to drive innovation.

Adina Morris: Good evening Dr. Gewirtz. Thank you for joining us in discussing

coaching the coach.

Dr. Gewirtz: Thank you for the invitation to speak to fellow coaches about the value in

having a coach for themselves, Adina.

Adina Morris: Excellent! Dr. Gewirtz, can you please share with us what is a coach’s

coach?

Dr. Gewirtz: Of course! Think about this: Every athlete and celebrity has their own

coach. The question I ask is who coaches the coach? That is what I do. I find that my

colleagues value my helping them get through their particularly sticky places. I help the

coach grow through their own capacity of self awareness using different techniques and

the power of reflection and supporting them in their unique life transitions thereby

helping them in their own coaching practice.

Adina Morris: Interesting. How do you use the discovery session with a new client?

Dr. Gewirtz: Well, my referrals usually come by word of mouth or trusted advisors. So

when I engage or have a discovery session with the individual, I never market, rather in

that time they experience the coaching as if we were already engaged. So here is an

example: that within the very first few minutes of sitting with me the client gets a taste of

what it would be like to work together. So what I try to do is create an environment in

which the client can experience safety in discussing challenging or difficult issues and

be clear that our conversations are confidential. Then I clarify what their expectations

are of coaching and what we will actually be doing to see if there is a good fit between

us.

Adina Morris: Ah ha, and tell me about this engagement process you mentioned.

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Dr. Gewirtz: I work with the client to establish a relationship of trust and partnership in

helping the client to reach their goals. The work consists of emerging the issue they

want to work on, which is not always the same as the stated issue. Often clients have,

what I call BHAGs-Big Hairy Goals which are fine, yet they need to be sharpened into

focus, or broken down into manageable bits-like a pile of twigs. My approach is very co-

active and I enlist the client as an active partner in the discovery process, so in essence

they are doing what I tell them is the “heavy lifting” and I am along as a guide on their

journey, and I am privileged to join them on this journey. The discovery phase varies

from interviews with peers or subordinates, or the team, to 360 degree evaluations and

sophisticated leadership reports.

Adina Morris: I see. Do you use a coaching model in coaching the coach?

Dr. Gewirtz: I do. It is really very much a three part model. Discovery, Assessment and

Intervention. I will break this down further for you. In the first phase, we set up contract

with the client for a minimum of six months with a check point at three months to

discuss if there is need for a course correction and if we are still on the right path to

achieve the set goals, or if there is a need for reprioritizing a path to the goals.

Some of the questions I ask are:

What outcome are you looking for from this coaching?

How will you know what that looks like?

How will you truly sabotage yourself?

I ask this last question about sabotage, and people always give me a smile, but it is a

way to get out early in the process about what it is that may sabotage themselves.

Therefore we are able to call it out if we see it happening. In the second phase, I use

deep listening in order to clarify and explore what it is that the client will find most useful

to become more effective in their practice. We discuss how life issues impact work and

how to work through difficult conversations with a client. I help them think through how

they can actually listen, learn and practice the work we have done together. In the third

phase, I have the client come back to me after trying it out in real time and discuss what

works and what didn’t. When working with the client, I always ask if they are willing to

take action. If they can’t or won’t commit, I will not take them on as a client. I think that

the only hope for progress is if the client is willing to try something new. And I will call

the client on that. Sometimes the client is willing, but they do not know how or are

unsure what action to take…that we can work with.

I always tell coach clients, that we will measure their progress, because this way we will

know if they are reaching their goals. We do this through contracting right at the

beginning by having the client state how they will know if they are successful. I work

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with the client to gain their confidence through role playing, learning to be flexible,

listening better, how to contract better with their clients, and how to be more relaxed in

their own life situations, particularly those that may have an impact on their coaching

practice.

Adina Morris: Mmm, I see. Do you find coaches having places where they get stuck in

their own coaching practices?

Dr. Gewirtz: I do, Adina. Where they get stuck is often in a place where, whatever the

issue is, it’s one that impacts them as coaches as well. The issue can create a lot of

dissonance or conflicting emotions. This impacts the coach’s ability to help their own

client. If you as a coach are going through your own life crisis, as the coach, you feel

more vulnerable and it is harder for you to help your clients. So, having a coach for

yourself will help free you and release some of the toxins that may otherwise hold you

back from having a very effective coaching practice.

Another example of where I find coaches getting stuck is, thinking that they have to fix

things. As the coach you want to help the client. If you can fix their problem, you think it

will make things better for them. This desire to fix can touch the coach unconsciously.

The coach may or may not realize this during or after the session. As the coach’s

coach, I help them get back into the area as a real coach and not a fix it person.

Another issue that comes up is when the coach feels disappointed that they have not

been able to help their client achieve their goals. It is hard to take the perspective that

the client needs to do the work, not the coach. It is not just about the competence of the

coach. I help coaches explore their own perception of their competence and distinguish

the boundaries of what is their responsibility, and what is really in the domain of the

client. I call this “taking the monkey off your back.” The coach may say, “only I were a

better coach or a more experienced coach or I knew more techniques, then the person

would obtain their goals.” Getting greater clarity on where the boundaries are between

guiding people, and the client’s responsibility for their own desired outcomes is critical.

Having a coach to talk through these issues, I find provides the coach with the

perspective that I call, “taking the person and putting them on the balcony, instead of

being in the scene or submerged in events themselves.” This allows the coach to look at

the picture before them differently with new perspective, allowing them to become

unstuck.

Another issue, I guess a fourth issue, is when the coach is extremely competent, but

lacks greater confidence to go forward or work through on sensitive issues or to expand

their own practice. Sometimes this can be gender related. A male coach may not have a

confidence issue because he projects that he can do, a can do attitude, even when he

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can’t. This can be true for some women. But I find that sometimes with women coaches

who may be just as qualified as their male counterparts and they know what to do, but

they may lack the confidence that stops him or her from getting stuck. So as the coach’s

coach, I help the client move through both in terms of their competence and confidence.

Adina Morris: Wow. You mentioned earlier certain questions that you usually use right

in the beginning with a client during the contractual phase. Are there other questions

that you find yourself using more often during the coaching process itself or are there

patterns to your line of questioning?

Dr. Gewirtz: I do have a philosophy, Adina, about asking questions which tend to

create a pattern or style. My philosophy is that of “appreciative inquiry,” meaning that

the questions are often about exploring from a “strengths” perspective rather than on

what is their weaknesses or gaps. My method is “Socratic” or what I call a “pull” rather

than “pushing” the person forward. I ask questions that are more opened ended-rather

than a request for information. I probe gently and sometimes firmly, with questions and

very actively, yet always respectful of where the client is rather than “pushing” them

forward to where I think they should be. I like to use the metaphor of the ratio of “two

eyes, two ears and one mouth,” meaning I listen and observe 4x the ratio to when I

speak. This allows for plenty of silent spaces for the client to do their own discovery. I

will often ask questions such as “Help me understand what this means to you” or can

you “say more about that?” I often work from a premise of helping clients examine

different scenarios and how each may lead to different consequences. So I might say,

“ok-let’s examine several different scenarios you come up with-and then we kind of

literally and thoughtfully think through out loud rather than just roaming around in their

heads like a mouse on a treadmill. I often ask, if after the fact-what happened? What

worked; what didn’t work well? What would you do differently? What would stop you

from doing that differently?

Adina Morris: So Dr. Gewirtz, what do you think after all we have discussed, may be

the value of a coach’s coach in particular?

Dr. Gewirtz: That is a very good question, Adina. A coach’s coach I think helps the

coach improve their own practice as a coach, to gain confidence, and to gain

perspective on their own lives and how it can impact their coaching. The coach’s coach

helps the client gain the ability to work through issues with their own work-life balance.

This can help the client clarify their own goals and have the capacity to accelerate or

reach their goals more easily.

Adina Morris: I can see that. And Dr. Gewirtz is there one aspect of coaching the

coach that you particularly derive satisfaction from and helps you in your own journey as

a coach?

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Dr. Gewirtz: I derive, I really derive tremendous joy from helping the coach because I

feel the coach is someone who is invested in giving to others, and doesn’t always have

someone to help them. So when you coach an individual there is really more than the

one person who is helped because many are impacted by the coach who is helped to

grow and develop professionally. So in a sense not just helping one person but many

who the coach will then help. It is like a pebble dropped in a river, and that creates a

ripple effect with tremendous impact. And that gives me great satisfaction and intrinsic

reward.

Adina Morris: That’s amazing Dr. Gewirtz. On a different train of thought of questions.

How did you receive your training in coaching?

Dr. Gewirtz: I am an educator and certified clinical psychotherapist at the Diplomat

level. I completed my doctorate and then took on a post-doctoral fellowship in HRD/OD,

Human Resource Development and Organizational Development. I also have a

certification in Myers Briggs personality and leadership assessment which I use in my

leadership and life coaching. My work with emerging and senior leaders and top teams

have given me invaluable business perspective with which to help my business clients

and clients within organizations get out of their own way so that they can succeed. I

have many years in leadership and organizational development and experience working

with senior leaders and top teams in manufacturing high-tech clean-tech and financial

services. I have also enjoyed conducting research and have written several book

chapters on leadership and top team development. So my clients have told me they

benefit from an integrated individual and systemic perspective that I help them to

develop. I often find myself working with both organizations and individuals. I am fond of

saying, as my clients will attest to, that if you only change the individual but not the

system all you get are frustrated individuals. But if you change the system but

individuals don’t change, then the change won’t be sustainable.

Adina Morris: Wow. Dr. Gewirtz, what was the most valuable piece of training for you

in your coaching practice?

Dr. Gewirtz: For me, as I reflect on this question, the most valuable piece was learning

that I didn’t have to have all the answers, nor did I have to have domain expertise as

such. And that took a lot of pressure off of me to allow for creativities to set in. My role

and value as a coach is to be a guide on a journey, where the expertise is the ability to

ask questions in a way that is “usable” for the client.

Adina Morris: I see that resonating with myself as a coach as well. Dr. Gewirtz, what

advice would you offer to coaches if they were to work with a coach’s coach?

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Dr. Gewirtz: I think it is very important if you are thinking of hiring a coach, to consider

beforehand the criteria of a coach who would be a good fit for you, particularly. So when

you talk with a coach, ask yourself, do you get a sense of safety and trust fore-most?

That’s the most important to begin with. Then, do you find yourself able to talk with them

easily about issues you are facing most? Do you find yourself, as a coach, being able to

discuss things also in terms of your own life events, as is appropriate. Then consider

gender, level of experience, and maturity and how important that is to you? Does the

coach give you a sense of confidence that they can help you grow professionally as you

“look in the mirror, and take action?” Does the coach have the depth of knowledge, ask

yourself, and expertise that you are looking for? If you are in another country, does the

coach have good cross cultural understanding and respect? Simply at a technology

level does the coach have access to good virtual platforms if you’re doing tele-coaching,

because many do exist way beyond Skype.

Adina Morris: I see, and are there any other services that you, Dr. Gewirtz are working

on right now, that you want to share with us today?

Dr. Gewirtz: I am always thinking about how I can provide new services to my clients

as the world changes around us so quickly, and I am really excited about expanding my

global practice in three specific ways.

I am expanding my ability to virtually coach clients from around the globe, and am

facilitating e-PeerNetworks specifically for coaches, emerging leaders, and women in

transition to the next stage of their career.

I am expanding my 1:1 coaching practice so that global clients can work with me in

addition to phone or Skype which are limiting, through cutting edge virtual platforms that

have the look and feel of real time, in-person coaching. Clients are now able to book

their sessions as well and pay online to simplify the engagement and billing process.

Then, complementing the individual focus, I am offering clients the opportunity to

participate in focused e-PeerNetworks for emerging leaders inside organizations who

want to accelerate their career by strengthening their entrepreneurial leadership and

capacity to work across global business networks.

I am also considering offering e-PeerNetworks for coaches from around the world who

want to support each other and learn from one another in a collaborative group format. I

certainly welcome any feedback on what would be most useful for coaches in this

format.

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In the PeerNetwork, we will focus I guess it is the third PeerNetwork, we will focus on

women transitioning to the next stage of their work/life and they want a collaborative

environment with other women to figure that out.

Adina Morris: Wow. It sounds like you are really starting some new initiatives and

cutting edge ways to use technology to help and reach other coaches throughout the

world. Amazing. So Dr. Gewirtz As our time is running out I see; if a fellow coach here

at ICA or elsewhere were interested in a discovery session with you or in contacting you

to discuss your newest initiatives, how would they best reach you?

Dr. Gewirtz: Well, there are two ways to really reach me. One is through my email at

mgewirtz@collaborativenetworks.net. And you can also check out my website

www.collaborativenetworks.net to see if we would be a good fit. And then you can book

an online discovery session or an in person or phone session if you are based in the

United States.

Adina Morris: Wow, that’s great. Thank you so much for your time Dr. Gewirtz. This

was really valuable for each of us as coaches to hear. Every coach needs a coach!

Dr. Gewirtz: Thank you Adina! It’s been really my pleasure.