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IN THE SECOND JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR LEON COUNTY, FLORIDA

CASE NO. 2014 CA 2951

WILLIAM DAWS, JR. et al.,

Plaintiffs, vs. FLORIDA FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION COMMISSION,

Defendant. ___________________________________ BEFORE: Judge KAREN GIEVERS DATE: October 31, 2017 TIME: Commenced at 8:00 a.m.

Concluded at 8:15 a.m.

LOCATION: Leon County Courthouse Tallahassee, FL

REPORTED BY: JUDY CHIN, RPR, CRR

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC 2894 REMINGTON GREEN LANE TALLAHASSEE, FL 32308

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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

APPEARANCES:

REPRESENTING PLAINTIFFS:

DAVID THERIAQUE, ESQUIRE

[email protected] THERIAQUE & SPAIN 433 North Magnolia Drive Tallahassee, Florida 32308 850.224.7332

REPRESENTING DEFENDANT:

REBEKAH A. DAVIS, ESQUIRE

[email protected] DUNLAP & SHIPMAN 2065 Thomasville Road, Suite 102 Tallahassee, Florida 32308 850.385.5000

and

REPRESENTING DEFENDANT:

TRACEY HARTMAN, ESQUIRE [email protected]

FLORIDA FISH AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION 620 South Meridan Street Tallahassee, Florida 32399 850.617.9444

REPRESENTING SOUTHEAST DOG HUNTER'S ASSOC.:

RYAN HARDY, ESQUIRE

[email protected] HOLLOWAY & HARDY, PLLC 369 North Main Street Crestview, Florida 32536 850.398.6808

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P R O C E E D I N G S

THE COURT: Good morning, everyone.

It appears we have everyone we should need.

Do you know of anyone you expected to be

present that is not present?

MS. DAVIS: No, Your Honor.

MR. THERIAQUE: No, Your Honor.

THE COURT: State your appearances.

MR. THERIAQUE: David Theriaque, on behalf of

the plaintiffs.

MS. DAVIS: Rebekah Davis, on behalf of the

defendant.

MR HARDY: Ryan Hardy, on behalf of the

Southeast Dog Hunter's Association.

THE COURT: Okay.

We are here on a motion to intervene.

There was some question that my judicial

assistant raised as to whether you all wanted to go

ahead today with the plaintiff's renewed motion for

contempt. I know that's set for tomorrow.

We will take care of the motion to intervene

first.

You may proceed, counsel.

MR HARDY: Good morning, Your Honor.

Ryan Hardy, on behalf of the Southeast Dog

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Hunter's Association.

We are a group based out of the Blackwater

area where this case is taking place at. We are

2,000 members who are dog hunting. We are the

people who were hunting the Blackwater area.

We have a very direct interest in this

lawsuit. Whatever happens here effects what's

going to happen with us. Those our are members who

are out there hunting.

The president of the Southeast Dog Hunter's

Association came to me and informed me of this

lawsuit, gave me the rundown, and asked me, you

know, what we should do. And I told him I thought

they should try to intervene in the lawsuit, so

that's why we are here today.

Obviously the suit was filed three years ago.

Southeast Dog Hunter's Association would like to

get in now.

We are not trying to delay this action, drag

it out, anything like that. There's no -- our

involvement in this case would not prolong it

whatsoever.

But the Southeast Dog Hunter's Association

does have a direct, immediate and significant

interest in the outcome of this; that is the land

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in the area where they hunt. Clearly, based on

what will happen in this case, Southeast Dog

Hunter's Association will gain or lose.

We are not trying to raise issues outside of

what is already going on. It's the same case, same

issues.

Your Honor, I know it is in your discretion to

allow us to intervene or not, and it should be

construed liberally. I believe that we do meet the

requirements to intervene in this lawsuit.

THE COURT: Thank you.

Miss Davis, do you wish to be heard?

MS. DAVIS: Just briefly, Your Honor.

The Defendant, Florida Fish and Wildlife

Conservation Commission does not object to the

Southeast Dog Hunter's Association motion to

intervene. And based on our review of the case law

and the arguments that they have made, we believe

that they meet the criteria as prescribed by the

Florida case law to intervene in this case.

My client, the Commission, is not representing

nor advocating for any specific hunters or

associations of hunters, and so their interests are

different and separate from those of the

Commission.

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That's all we have, Your Honor.


Mr. Theriaque.

MR. THERIAQUE: Good morning, Your Honor.

Thank you.

Yes, we do oppose the motion to intervene. I

hope you were able to get the binder that we

delivered yesterday, Your Honor, with the motion --

Great. Thank you -- response.

I'm not going to hit all the arguments in our

response other than the key points.

I'll remind the Court that we have two counts

at issue, a common law nuisance and inverse

condemnation.

The deer dog hunters have no right to use the

plaintiff's property to hunt. There is no direct,

immediate or significant interest in whether our

clients succeed in a nuisance count or succeed in

an inverse condemnation claim.

At best the arguments that the intervenor has

made are speculative and contingent.

If the Court rules in the plaintiff's favor on

the inverse condemnation, then there is an award of

damages to our clients. That does not affect the

deer dog hunters at all.

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If the Court agrees that there is a nuisance

and has already entered an injunction requiring FWC

to abate that nuisance, again, there is no direct

result immediate or significant interest that's at

issue.

What the Court directed FWC to do is abate the

nuisance, figure out how you are going to do it,

and that could be additional officers, it could be

additional fences, it could be down the road FWC

could decide this portion of Blackwater should not

be deer dog hunted.

If that occurs, that's a contingent event and

the intervenors would have a right to address FWC's

decision-making process.

None of that is a direct result of the two

counts that the plaintiffs have brought nuisance

and inverse condemnation.

I would also point to the Court that there are

two cases I believe we cited in our response that

even if the Court finds that there is a direct,

immediate, significant interest, which we

respectfully submit does not exist, the right to

intervene is discretionary, and if there is another

party that is adequately defending against the

claims the Court has the discretion to deny the

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request for intervention.

I think there is no doubt that FWC is

aggressively and strenuously opposing both counts.

And the Deer Dog Hunter's participation in this

lawsuit does not add to that defense. I don't see

them bringing anything to the table that FWC isn't

already doing.

So we would request that the Court deny the

motion to intervene as being legally insufficient.


Last word, Mr. Hardy.

MR HARDY: One second, Your Honor.

Your Honor, I believe as far as FWC adequately

protecting the hunters, it's two different

entities.

The hunters are not FWC, and the hunters have

rights to hunt that property --

THE COURT: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Maybe I'm

in the wrong case.

This is private property, and so there's no

right that the hunters have to be on the

plaintiff's property.

I want to make sure that I'm not

misunderstanding your argument.

MR HARDY: I misspoke. I'm talking about the

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Blackwater property, not any private property. I

apologize for that.

THE COURT: Okay. I've been through a number

of hearings and FWC has pointed out or contended

that it's not FWC that's going on the plaintiff's

property, it's deer dog hunters that are

trespassing and so forth.

Go ahead.

MR HARDY: We are the people being accused of

causing the problems, that's why we ought to be

allowed in the lawsuit. Exactly what you just

said, deer dog hunters are assumed to be the

problem in this case.

I believe we ought to be allowed to be heard

in this case.

That's all I have, Your Honor.


This case has been ongoing since November of

2014. We are coming up, if my count is correct, on

the third hunting -- third round of hunting seasons

affected by the FWC's issuance of permits to folks

that are allowed to use those permits to do deer

dog hunting in the places in which deer dog hunting

is allowed, one of which is the eastern portion of

the Blackwater property.

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I know there's still -- there are parts of the

case that are still at the appellate court. The

case was scheduled for the December trial docket.

It does not look like that's realistic.

But regardless the Court finds that there

seems to be no dispute about the interest of the

Southeast Deer Dog hunting group regarding the

outcome of the case.

But given the nature of the case with the two

counts on behalf of the plaintiffs against those

that the plaintiffs see as being the ones that are

allowing the hunting, that being FWC, there really

doesn't -- I was going to say there doesn't seem to

be a reason for the deer dog hunters to have a dog

in the fight, but that's a bad thing to use, so

I will not say that.

But I am going to deny your motion and that of

your client, Mr. Hardy, even if there -- and even

acknowledging that there is an interest on the part

of your client with respect to the outcome, your

client members have no rights to be on the

plaintiff's property nor to allow their dogs to

roam free, nor to allow the occasional bullets to

cross the parties at interest, based on the

pleadings that interest are the plaintiffs and the

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FWC. So the motion is denied.

Counsel for the parties, with respect to the

hearing that's tomorrow I believe, renewed motion

for contempt, do you want to leave that on tomorrow

or did you want to go ahead today?

Miss Davis?

MS. DAVIS: Yes, Your Honor, we prefer to

leave it for tomorrow. That was set --

THE COURT: That's fine. That's when it was

noticed for.

The other thing that seemed to the Court that

we ought to address is the status of the trial

date. Even if the appellate court were to rule in

the near future and even if there were something to

be tried, we are coming up on November.

MS. DAVIS: Your Honor, I would say that we

were never aware that this case was scheduled for

the December trial docket. I don't think there was

ever an order entered.

THE COURT: Maybe it was September.

MR. THERIAQUE: It was September, Your Honor.

THE COURT: That's what I was thinking, the

September docket, and we obviously didn't reach

that.

Give some thought between now and tomorrow

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whether you think it makes sense for me to put you

on the target docket that you can work toward or if

you would rather just stay off the docket.

MS. DAVIS: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: We will see you tomorrow morning.

MR. THERIAQUE: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: We are in recess.

(Thereupon, the hearing was concluded at 8:15

a.m.)

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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

STATE OF FLORIDA )

COUNTY OF LEON )

I, JUDY CHIN, RPR, certify that I was

authorized to and did stenographically report the

proceedings herein, and that the transcript is a true

and complete record of my stenographic notes.

I further certify that I am not a relative,

employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor

am I a relative or employee of any of the parties'

attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I

financially interested in the action.

WITNESS my hand and official seal this 31st

day of October, 2017.

______________________________

JUDY CHIN, RPR, CRR 2894 REMINGTON GREEN LANE TALLAHASSEE, FL 32308 850-878-2221

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MR HARDY: [5] 3/123/238/118/249/8MR. THERIAQUE:[5] 3/63/86/311/2012/5MS. DAVIS: [6] 3/53/105/1211/611/1512/3THE COURT: [14] 1102 [1] 2/1122,000 [1] 4/42014 [2] 1/39/192017 [2] 1/1113/162065 [1] 2/112221 [1] 13/212894 [2] 1/2313/202951 [1] 1/3331 [1] 1/1131st [1] 13/1532308 [4] 1/242/62/1113/2132399 [1] 2/1732536 [1] 2/22369 [1] 2/21

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