, IN THE SUfREME OOURT OF SOUTH AFRICA

(TRANSVAAl, PROVINCIAL DIVISION) •

. f

,N.A.I/(O~O

CASE ~O. 18/75/254

DATE: 6th MAY 1916

In the matter of:

THE STATE

vs

s. COOPER AND EIGHT OTHERS r

__ ._P, ____ •• __ • ____ ..... I ._~ _______ ..., ______________ ~ ___ II _____ • _____ • ___ n ___ _

o

VOLmm 82 E •

PAGES 4677 - 4739

LUBBE RECORDINGS (PRETORIA) •

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/Vl·1D .; - 4G77 - BIKO

COURT RESUHES ON 6th rul.Y 1976,

B.S. BIKO, STILL UNDER OATH:

CROSS-EXAIlINATION BY HR. ATTWELL CONTINUED: Hr. Biko,

just to rOWld off where we ended off yesterday, 1-1e w"ere

busy with the Shezi funeral which you attended? --- Correct.

Can you tell the Court, did any of the Accused no,.,

before Court attend that funeral? --- I am s~~e some did

attend, but I cannot remember specifically now.

So you cannot point to anyone? --- I cannot

specifically point to anyone.

Now, dealing with the Accused shortly, you said

that you knew certain of the Accused before their arrest

and the others you r~ve met subsequent to their detention

during this trial? --- Correct.

Did you visit the AccuseLl '? --- In gaol you mean?

Yes, after their detention? --- Yes, I did.

And you have seen them on occasions here in Court?

--- That is correct.

Did you attend ~~ of the Court hearings, Court

10

proceedings in this trial? --- Yes I did, I came durine 20

the time of the evidence of Dr. or Professor van der Her1're,

during his evidence, I made an appearance.

\vas that the only witness giving evidence that you

heard? PAUSE

Was this before or after you knew that you were a

likely or possible Defence witness? --- Well I knew I

was a likely witness, but I did not understand it to mean

that I may not come in until I vias told by Counsel that I

should not come in.

And the final question i s , have you had access 3C

a t / ... •

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BIKO

at all to any of the transcripts of evidence, the official

transcripts? --- No.

r have in mind 1-/hat I am sholving you non, this

type of thing? --- No.

Not at all? Not at all.

Are you aware of the evidence given by specifically

other accomplices for the state? --- Like lv-ho for instance?

Hell I can put it to you directly there vlere

witnesses, Ledwaba was one, there was a witness .Ahmed Baua,

there was a witness Harry Singh, are you avlare of the 10

testimony of any of these people? --- Well except for

brief reports in the Press, I am not aware.

Did you discuss the evidence of any of those people

or anybody else with the Accused at all? --- Not with

the Accused, I am sure I talked about Harry Singh for

instance at home with some of my folk down there, but

not with .the Accused.

Did you know Harry Singh at all? --- Ye s, I know' him.

Was he quite a senior member of BPC? --- Not till

I left Durban, I do not know if he became one afterwards.

NOvT, Ivlr. Biko, I would like you to turn quickly

to the SASO GSCs which you did attend, there are just

one or two things I would like to ask you about them,

but before we do that the SASO - I think you have told

the Court who the SASO Executive was elected at the

inaugural convention? --- That is correct.

Could you perhaps just tell us which members were

elected onto the SASO Executive at the first GSC, the

Minutes of which we do not have? --- Vlell the president

was Barney Pityana, the vice president internal was

Lindelwe / ...

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Lindelvle !1abandla, the external vice president 1'TaS

Charles Dibisi, I was in charge of publications , I

think Job NathWl.Yane lias in charge of vThat we called

cultural affairs. That is really as much as I can

remember - there were other portfolios but I cannot

remember them now.

I would like to refer you then to the }linutes

of the second GSC held in July 1971, SASO A.l, M'lord,

if we start on the first actual page of the Ninutes it

sets out certain Executive regional directors and

departmental directors who were present? --- That is

correct.

I do not for instance see your name under the

Executive Committee, in fact I do not see a portfolio of

director of publications there. Is this a portfolio

"'hich vTas created later or 1-laS it not an official

portfolio, or vThat is the position here? --- \'Ie11 if yOlt

look under departmental directors you 1'li11 see "publications

- steve Biko tt •

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Now it does not seem to fall under - or does this 2C

whole lot fall under the ~xecutive? --- Well at the top

it says Executive Committee.

Does that include regional directors and so on?

--- That is correct.

So all these people in fact were on the Bxecutive?

That is correct.

At what stage did the Executive of SA~O boil doun

to five portfolios? --- Well we narrovled it dOvln a t t he

1971 conference.

Oh, at the 1971 conference? --- That i s correct. 30

iU1d / • • •

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And is the position as no,., set out in the SASO

ConstitQtion where only five specific people are set out

as part of the Executive Committee, is that nOlv the

position? --- That is correct.

lIT. Biko, if vle could just have a look at one or

two points, if you start paging through it I see you Hill

find that you yourself were the proposer or seconder of

numerous of the motions and resolutions taken at this

particular GSC, but you will also find the name Nokoape

appears very frequently here as seconder and proposer of 10

Resolutions? --- Yes.

Which Mokoape is that? --- Well it should be the

younger brother.

Ho,.; who would tha t be what is his name? --- Keith

I-lokoape.

Did Aubrey Nokoape, Accused No.4, attend this GSC?

--- Well as I said as far as I remember Aubrey has not

attended any SASO conference, that is fully as a delegate,

he could have visited, but I do not remember him attending

as a delegate.

Here both Aubrey and Keith r.1okoape members of

SASO at this particular stage? --- \l/e11, the centre as 0-

whole was affiliated to SASO, so that technically any

stUdent at UN.B was a member of SASO. NOvl Kei th was an

active member of the SASO local committee, and Aubrey

gave assistance now and then in one or other of the

projects of SASO.

Viere they both card-bearing members of SASO? --- I

cannot remember, signing a card vTas optional in a centre

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which l'laS affiliated. 30

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BIRO

I see. Did a card-bearing member of SASO carry

any extra weight over an affiliated centre member?

--- No, not at all.

You will remember that Aubrey did attend the

DOCC conference in December of this year as a delegate

of the SASO delegation? --- That is correct.

That is Accused No.4? --- That is correct, yes.

This GSC in fact took the Resolution on foreign

investments? --- That is correct, yes.

\ih.ich set out the SASO vie~'W'"Point? --- Yes.

NOli if we could perhaps just have a quick look

at this, page 17 of your numbering, page 255 of Your

Lordship's, Resolution 50/71. I do not intend dealing

with the preamble, but it says here under "noting further

that foreign investors" - do you see that at the bottom?

Nmmm

n(vii) make it possible for S.A. to spurn world

opinion to maintain her racist regime;

(viii) boost S.A. international image and make

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S.A. an ideal land for investment l'lhilst 20

the social evils practised by the regime

are lost sight of;

(ix) give S.A. an economic stability that

enables her to gain diplomatic and economic

acceptance in the international scene ll •

Do you see that? --- That is correct.

Now I think in your evidence-in-chief you s t a t ed

that there was perhaps a mistake or a wrong i mpression

created by certain words used in t he ninth par agr aph?

--- Mmmm

\fuat / ...

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What was that again, could you just point that out

to the Court? --- Well I was referring to the term

economic stability, I said it could have meant as far

as I understood it economic involvement which results

in diplomatic and economic acceptance, in other words

involvement of other nations and countries in our

economy results in them having to bat an eye so to speak

to whatever South Africa does.

Do you think that one could then replace the word

stability in fact \vith involvement here? --- This is IDJr 1 0

understanding of that particular clause.

Now if you do that, \\I'ould you then just read. it

reading "involvement" and tell me if it makes sense?

--- "give S.A. an economic involvement that enables her

to gain diplomatic and economic acceptance acceptance in

the international scene."

Does that make sense to you? --- Yes, it is an

incomplete sentence but certainly the understanding here

is involvement with other groups, with other nations,

other countries.

Should it not h.ave read "gives overseas companies

an economic involvement that enables S.A. to gain •• "?

--- No, I think the focal point is South Africa and her

involvement with other nations economically.

Is it correct, I think you prefaced your evidence

on foreign investment as have previous \vi tnesses, both

for the State and the Defence, in stating t hat foreign

investments 'tvas a very contentious matter ? --- It i s

contentious all right.

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No'\v, contentious in what regard, Br. Biko , what I'TaG :;U

i nherent / • • •

- 4 ~~8 3 - BI RO

inherent in this particular aspect that made it s uch a

contentious matter? --- Well it was contentious as f ar

as I am concerned in so far as it was topical, it Has

an area where South Africa was being criticised by

various people in countries which invest here. It was

contentious in that there was a stage at which for

instance companies involved in our economy here, did not

know how to respond to their situation of involvement

here, it was contentious in that several companies

abroad sent teams here to investigate the behaviour and 10

operations of their companies, it was contentious in that

governments like Britain for instance began to give

directives to their companies that were involved in our

economy to behave in a certain manner. In other vvords

the term contentious here is being us ed only in so far

as it was an issue being raised throughout the Ylorld,

and it was an issue on which criticism "las beil'lg focused.

onto participation by other nations in our economy at

that level.

Was it contentious also in a sense that it evoked 20

a wide diversity of opinion? --- It was topical and t here

was lots of debate.

Did the Blacks differ amongst themselves also as

to the advisability or non-advisability of economic

investment in this country? --- Yes they did.

I notice this Resolution was adopted unanimouoly

with acclaim? --- No, nem con does not mean unanimously,

nem con means without anyone opposing , t here may be people

who abstained.

But vTi th acclaim? --- \Ii t h acclai m certai nly

because / ..•

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BIRO

because some people felt very strongly about it - ab ut

certain things.

Now, the preamble in fact sets out the

understanding, of SASO anyway, as to the extent of

foreign investment in this country? --- Yes, well I

would put it this way, this is the presentation by the

particular commission, and it was accepted.

And in fact tho se figures suggest a fairly

substantial investment by foreign investors in the

economy, liOuld you agree with me? --- \-vell, if you real -I y 1 0

~ook at the total capital required for South Africrul

industries, they a re not all that significant. They

would constitute I think at this particular stage

probably about not certainly more than 12~~ , and I think

the current foreign investment in our economy is about

7C;~ now •• (Mr. Attwell intervenes)

Let us confine ourselves to when this vlas taken

in 1971? --- Yes, I am looking at it in terms of total

capital required, there is much much more generated from

within you see, so although it looks like a hell of a lot 20

of millions when you look at it on paper, percentage-~rise

as I say it is certainly not more than l~~ even at that

stage.

And 12~~ of the country's economy is a fairly

substantial slice, is that correct? --- Not seriously reaJJ~.

Not really? --- No.

You then vlent on to point out in your evidence-in­

chief that in fact SASO went no further than r:1erely

rejecting this foreign investment? --- Ye s .

It did not go so far as to include discouraeement 3G

of / ••.

- 4085 - EllO

of foreign investment? --- Illmmm

Could you perhaps just once again outline to the

Court the reason for not going the whole hog and including

discouragement as well? --- Well I explained to the

Court that SASO took this Resolution precisely because

the issue was a topical one and many people from abroad

and from within were asking what our point of view was.

We had not taken a decision on the issue, and we

decided at this particular conference merely to truce a

policy decision, just to indicate to our membership '1'lhat 10

our attitude vras. We did not seek to involve ourselves

in a programme, a campaign to discourage foreign

investment, ,,;e just sought to have an attitude, a policy

attitude.

N01'; if I may ask why didn't SASO want to get

involved in a campaign to discourage foreign investment?

--- Well, there are a number of reasons, I think some of

them I pointed out in my evidence-in-chief, the main one

being that even if you ardently believe that foreign

investments were bad, and that they should be got out 20

of the country, it was in fact impossible to do so, for

. two . reasoPs t because ,th~ . companies involved in the South

African economy have not come here out of ignorance,

they have come here out of knowledge in fact, they have

come here particularly amongst other things to exploit

the existence of cheap labour in our labour la1,r provisions,

and secondly the country itself any1'ray has tightened up

its control over foreign investment since t h e days of

Sharpeville, and it nou is very difficult for a firm to

pullout their money, as you lTould knoH of course they :;0

cannot / •••

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cannot pullout their factories, so it is difficult to

plllJ out their money from the country in the first

instance, they have got to go through a whole rigmarole,

through government controlled measures, some of Hhich

I do not actually understand myself.

Do I understand you correctly then that SASO

considered it not a feasible type of thing it could do?

--- Not a desirable thing for several reasons.

Did it consider it was possible to do so? --- \'lell,

we had never looked - if you can look at this amendment 10

we took it out precisely because we did not want to

involve ourselves in that programme.

It says: that the Council is not composed of people

who are capable of keeping foreign investors out"? -- llmmm

NOll, what then is the difference betvreen SASO and

BPC, because BPC went far further than merely rejecting

foreign investment, it in fact discouraged it? --- I am

not aware really, I think BPC as far as I kno1'[ could have

had bilateral meetings with particular firms or could have

applied pressure on particular firms, but I t~iru{ the 20

understanding which was envisaged stemmed also from this

type of stance. I think everybody

that there is nothing much you can do in this sphere,

the little you can do is to use your political aptitude

to bend things your way a bit, in other words to bring

about some kind of influence on foreign firms which are

in this country, to relate more closely to Blacks, and to

relate certainly to the attitudes that Blacks have. We

'\.-rant to see our workers being trained, we vlant to s ee

our workers being given po sitions of re sponsibility 3C

Hithin / ••.

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BlEO

wi thj n the firms. In other words 't'Te vTant to see the

whole humanity of workers within firms like Heinemn.n.

and all the foreign firms vrho are in this country

developed by the firms to understanding our attitude.

Do you dispute the fact that BPC w-ent further

and in fact discouraged foreiBn investment? --- I am

not hundred per cent aware of all the programmes taken

by BPC, all I am saying is that the attitude towards

foreign investment l'lhich 't'las in BPC vIas very similar to

the one that SASO took.

I would like to refer you then to the Resolution

taken by BPC at its first national congress in December

of 1972, document BPO 0.3, Resolution 20 of 1972 on

page 7 of your paper.

COURT: It seems that the policies are very similar, no 1'1

is that coincidence or how do they manage to have

similar policies? --- I think, N'lord, there are certain

very influential people of Sl\.SO for instance who 1'lere also

members of BPO, and in a sense what stance SASO tru{es

10

does often get more expression you kno11[, lTi thin BPC;. 2 I

There is a relationship in that sense, you knou, a

structural relationship.

Is it correct then to say that the policy of BPC

was very much under the direction of SASO? --- Not reaJ1y,

I think they 'tV'ere related, I mean there is evidence '-There

BPa takes policy where SASO took it up. (?)

NR. ATTHELL: BPa a. 3, ~1 '10rd, Re solut ion 20 of 1972, on

page 9 of Your Lordship's papers, page 7 of the typed

document. Have you got that, Nr. Bike? --- ~1mmm

You will notice that it says : "The congress

noting / •••

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noting -

1. the vital role played by foreign investors in

maintaining and supporting the economic system

in South Africa.

The system is designed for maximum exploitation

of Black people;

That the riches and resources of this cOUlltry

belong as their birthright;

Further noting -

-- Right.

that foreign investors claim that their presence l O

in this cowltry contributes tOHards the

development of the Black community"

"But this claim is disputed by the reality of the

Blacks' experience in this country,

Therefore resolves -

To reject the involvement of foreign investors in

this exploitative economic system, and

To call upon foreign investors to disengage

themselves from the White controlled exploitative 20

system, and mandates the National Executive to

make known our stand on foreign investors, kno1-m

both in this country and overseas through all

available channels" -

Do you agree with me that goes further than merely

rejecting foreign investors? --- You m ght say the llord

"doll, but I think it is just a politica l s ta...rlce again

from w'bich to operate.

You notice there "a calIon foreie n inves tors t o

di sengage thems elves" ? --- The point ab out it, r·Ir . Attvell , j G

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I know the BPC attitude to this, I kn01v the people

involved, and vrhat I am saying here is that not one

person I have met in BPC ever hoped or thought at

any given stage that investors were going to pullout.

But "Then you are going to operate a political programme,

like applying pressure on .foreign companies, you take

a stand and you operate from that stand in a certain

direction.

Do you know who the mover and seconder of that

motion were at the BPC congress? --- No, I do not knov,.

There appear to have been a Mr. Ne!lg1'renlculu and a

r-IIr. B.Nafuna, that would be Bokvre l\1afuna, are these people

knovln to you? --- Yes I know both of them.

They vlere both SASO members at one stage Here t hey

not? -- Not Illafuna.

Nengwenkulu l'las a SASO member? --- That is correct.

I refer, if Your Lordship does require reference .

here to BPC C.4 on page 50, which does give the proposer

and seconder of that particular motion. You notice in

J_u

point I that the vital role played by foreign investors 20

is stressed? --- Right.

Now, do you know any steps that BPC did in fact

take in its Resolution to discourage and call upon

foreign investors to withdraw? --- I would not personally

know.

I think you said yesterday or the day before in

your evidence that the actual purpose of this call Has

to exert pressure? --- Yes.

On South Af rica. Vias it in any way to hurt or

cripple the economy of the country ? --- "To , cert ainly . 3(;

'/ould / •••

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- 4590 - BIKO

Would it have that effect? --- As "I acid in my

evidence-in-chief it could not have, vfe w'ere quite 2.Hare

that it could not have.

N01-1 there are other documents before Court put

out by other of the Accused which seem to suggest that

a total withdrawal of foreign investment would cripple

this country and bring the racist government to its

knees? --- I "Tould have to see that in its context.

Well I can refer you to those particular - PAUSE -

you said in your evidence now that "we were aware that 10

it could not have this effect"? --- Yes.

When you say "we" who are you referring to there?

--- I am tal king abo ut the general leadership 1-Ti thin

SABO and certain general leadership vlithin BPC.- PAUSE -

I am sorry I am being disturbed by T·1r. Rees here.

COURT: Try and be inaudible, I-Ir. Rees.

I·lil. ATT\{ELL: I refer you to a document BPC C. 9, a

statement issued by the Black People's Convention, and

purportedly given out, if you look at page 3 of the

document, by Roy Chetty in his capacity as public re1~tions 20

officer, Sipho Buthelezi in his capacity as secretary

general, Aubrey Mokoape, Accused No.4, in his capacity

as chairman of the Durban Central BPC branch, and Harry

Singh in his capacity as chairman of the Overport BPC

branch. These are influential people in BPC, correct?

-- Correct.

Now if you will have a look at the second page of

that document, page 21 of Your Lordship's papers, the

middle paragraph which begins "advocates of continued

investment claim that if foreign investors wi thdre1'T thio 30

lTould / •••

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"would result 'in largescale unemployment of Blacks II - h.nve

you got that paragraph? --- I am just trying to find it.

The sixth paragraph on that page. -- Right.

IIAdvocates of continued investment claim that if

foreign investors wi thdrevl this ''lould result in

largescale unemployment of Blacks. Wi thdra1val

can only mean the downfall of the Vorster regime.

Black people have pledged themselves to fi~lt for

freedom whatever the cost. Black people have

endured much suffering and cannot suffer beyond 10

this. Black people in general are preparej to

suffer any consequences if this means ultimate

Black freedom II •

Now how does that tie up with what you have just told

the Court? --- Yes I do not think this implies necessarily

that va thdrawal will result in economic d01fnfall, I think

this refers to the vThole area of criticism, that the

western countries tend to contain or get sustenance, that

is sustain a bit of their relationship lvi th South Mrica

precisely because of their economic ties at investment 20

level. NOl'T, any form of complete disengagement will

result in freedom by countries to be as critical as

they ·wish. South Africa then loses the kind of defenders

it has at United Nations, i t cannot anymore spurn vlorld

opinion. I think this is some conclusion one can draw

from this statement. As I said before these men are

quite aware that foreign investment is very low in this

country in terms of the total capital required, and even

if all foreign firms were to go out now really, South

Africa vTill not even seriously limp economically. This

we / •..

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vTe know. As I said again in ~. eviden~e-in-chief,

according to studies by the department of economies

what we require is something like 6.4 investment from

outside, the rest can be produced from inside the

country.

Perhaps you would have a look at one other

document, BPC 0.8 , a document entitled "foreien

investment II by Nk1venk'VTe Nkomo, Accused Ho. 5. Hill you

have a look at the second page of that document, I,h"l.

Biko, have a look at the paragraph just under the middle 1 0

of the page "on the other hand" - do you see a paragraph

starting like that? --- Yes.

"On the other hand it would serve a purpose if

foreign companies closed dOl'Tn completely and all

employees lose work. This 'tnll be the time 1"]hen

Black people 'till realise that it is better to be

idle than to be exploited. It "rill serve to

redirect Black initiative and creativity"

This ties up vlith 't'lhat is said higher up in the document

in the second paragraph, vThen he refers to incidents ljJ-;:e 20

Doornkop, Limehill, Rooigrond and other similar ones

"could only succeed through the use of commodities

manufactured by foreign investors. The involvement of

foreign investors in the Black banks should be discouraGed,

because it is aimed at curbing the creativity ru1d

militancy of the Black people" --- Right.

Hov; does that tie up with - PAUSE ? --- Again I

think this is purely a speculation. The point about

vIi thdra1'Tal of foreign investment is this, that vThen a man

,·,ho inve st s here has got to wi thdravl he has got to S ell ~ C)

to / •••

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- 469.; - BIKO

to somebody. He has to sell either to another foreigner

or he has got to sell to a South African, either way t he

factory goes on, either '''ay the capital "Thich \Va s

involved in that business continues to generate a kind

of livelihood for the people employed by that firm. 80

that the fact that it is a foreigner or a South African

who has the firm has got nothing to do ' 'lith employment

for instance of Black labour. Now, tbis I regard as pLU"'e

speculation because it is not possible that anybody is

just going to close dOvffi and leave his capital idle in 1 0

this country. This is just pure speculation for tbis

man it serveG the purpose of encouraging people in his

particular thinking - no~'l I have not read the uhole

document so I do not understand 'what the vThole thil1.kine

is. But it is certainly pure speculation.

I appreciate that the actual physical buildinGs,

factories, cannot be removed? --- Yes.

But the investment is I submit Shovffi in the document

and appreciated by both SASO and BPC to be a very

substantial one'? --- The point at issue is that he cannot

just take his money and go out, any foreign investor

cannot just take his money and g o out, he ha s got to sell

to somebody.

The question of immorality is stressed is it not ?

--- This is the point, it does not mean that his actionc

are necessarily moral because he cannot take out hi s money.

No, he can close dOlm his company if he i s

prepared to lose a couple of hundred t housand or Q half

a mil lion, but it 'will have t he effect of pushing Black

1'Torkers out •• (1vi tness intervenes ) --- 'mere have you 3(;

ever / •••

- 4C94 - BIRO

ever seen such a capitalist w'ho -Ls prepal ... ed to lose 200

million or 100 million just like that.

I did not say 100 million, some of the foreign

investors are fairly small? --- That is correct, they

are small, but no capitalist wants to lose anything. In

the first place he came here to make money, if it gets

hot he has got to sell, who does he sell to, another

foreigner, easier, or a South African.

So that is your interpretation of those documents?

--- Yes.

You see there is also reference in one of the SASO

neHsletters which says that -

""le should never make the mistake of trying to

create a contented and happy Black Horker"

.Are you familiar 't'ri th such a statement? --- No.

\'lould you like me to refer you to it? --- Yes, I

w'ould like to see it in its context.

If the Court vlill bear with me for one moment, I

do not know' if I am able to lay my hands on it at this

1 0

particular moment - PAUSE - Hr. Bil{o, I think then 20

we should continue w'here we left off l'li th the SASO

Minutes of that conference, if you still have them in

front of you. --- Right.

That is the SASO A.l - if you wi.ll turn to

Resolution 57 of 1971, page 21 of your document, paee

259 of Your Lordship's papers, it deals with Black

Theology? --- Yes.

And it then states in Resolution 58 of 1971, the

next one, under (iii) there -

"'tfith proper organisation the Black TheoloGY

meS8aee / •••

3C

,

BIKO

message will be acceptable to the Black people

and relevant to their plight -

Therefore

instructs the secretary-general to form, together

with other relevant religious groups a permanent

commission of Black Theology to study, direct rula

popularise thi s concept If -

you 1iere the seconder of that motion and Nengt'lenkulu the

mover? --- Nmmm

Does that mean what it says there? --- It means

what it says.

You then turn in Resolution 60 of 1971 at the

bottom of the page to culture? --- Yes.

And if I may turn to the Resolution itself on page

23, 261 of Your Lordship's papers, where you resolve -

"that a permanent organiser be employed 1'lhose task

internally would be -

(a) to direct the cultural orientation of the

Black people in the manifestation of Black

Consciousness; -

--- Sorry, where are you reading?

At the bottom of page 23, the resolution itself.

--- Okay.

n(a) to direct the cultural orientation of the

Black people in the manifestation of Black

consciousness;

(b) to restore those values that bind Black people

culturally;

(c) to organise Black poetry reading gro ups;

(d) to circulate reading material, and mal,:e

accessible / •••

10 I

20

3C

- 4696 - BIKO

accessible vlorks of wTi ters on Black poetry,

drama and literature;

(e) to exploit Black theatre as a means of the

manifestation of Black Consciousness"

--- Yes.

n(f) to urge students to involve themselves actively

in the abovementioned cultural acti vi ty" - Ul1f\nimous lrith

acclaim - does that mean ,·mat it says? --- Yes, sure.

So the Black theatre Has Boing to be exploited as

a means of the manifestation of Black consciousness, ru1d J.O

I think especially the next Resolution 62 of 1971 it

throw's further light on that and I see you \'lere the

seconder of that motion which \Vas unanimously adopted '!

--- Yes.

--

IIThat this GSC - realising the need to consolidate

the usage of poetry, prose and drama as a weapon

for arousing the awareness of a people;

Yes.

"Then instructs the Executive to make attempts

towards the establishment of a country-wide 20

cultural union to further correlate the valuable

work done by these groupsll

That is correct.

Does that mean in fact "rvhat it says? -- YeG, I

think I have said so before.

~~. Biko, I see in Resolution 83 of 1971

apparently the Constitution "las amended to read under point

(iv) :

"Any member of the Executive Committee vrho acts

against the interests of the organisation shall 3G

be / •••

BIRO

be asked and/or forced to resign"

Do you see that? --- Yes.

Was that section ever used by SASO to your

knowledge? --- Yes it was used.

When was that? --- Against rJlr. Temba Sono.

Can you perhaps detail for us the circumstances

of that particular Sono incident? --- \,1 ell , he issued

what vIe regarded as a very important policy statement.

Where ''las this delivered? --- At a conference

of SASO on the opening day during a tiDe w'hen all the 1 0

Press was there, he issued a very important policy

statement w'hich differed substantially ,.n. th established

SASO policy, and he did this vTi thout consulting the

Executive, his paper Has never seen by atl0'body up to

the moment when it was delivered. ''Ie t h our;ht that he

''las attempting to get leverage, you kn011 , to lever t h e

"\'lhole position in the direction that he \'1as thinking by

using that moment of maximum publici ty, so l'fe thought

that he was acting against the interests of the

organisation and SASO.

Vn1at was it that he said that you people objected

to? --- Well in a sense he v-ras advocating collaboration

with Bantustans to some extent, he vias advocating

coalition with liberal groups, and he vlas generally

admonishing SASO on its stance, you knO\'T, -vrith reearcl to

the t vlo groups. It was not so much that he cOtJ~d not

say this, he could l1ave said t he s e things openly at 3

meeting, what we sa,\'T as being ami ss 1'10..0 the uhole conduct

in saying tho s e things , choo s ing a moment vrhen t he r e lTO tllQ

20

be maximum publicity, and choo s ing a moment llhen t here 1'18.8 ) ()

no / •••

- 4698 - BIRO

no debate, he "Tas just delivering an address in place

of someone they had invited '\'rho did not come. Jo

that the newspapers ,{ere going to give some kind of

report to say SASO president says A, B, C and D, ";hich

gives a whole different slant to our policy, so

because he did this vTe kicked him out.

Was there rulY policy Resolution 't'lhich he infringed

in giving his address? --- Yes, I have just named tlvO.

Had you at that stage adopted a firm stance on

homelands and liberals? --- Yes.

And ,,;as there to be no collaboration at all ui th

either of those tvTO, or did you allo1v certain

collaboration? --- vlell the Resolution relnting for

instance to multiracial organisations \"las reasonably

flexible to allo,.; for distant and meaninful student

contact for instance in areas of research. 1'1112. t 11e

said was that there would be no political coalition

betvleen us and them, and "That Sono vras directine himseli

to as far as I remember 'Has political coalition lTi th

10

these groups, he even mentioned the Special Branch as 20

far as I remember.

\Vould you perhaps look at the ~linutes of that

3rd GSC which I think you did attend, is that correct?

--- Yes.

SASO C.l, Milord, you were chairman of the planning

commission I see? --- Tlmt is correct.

At this particular GSC. If you "t·/ould have a look

at the list of delegates firstly v;hich begins on page 2a,

page 85 of Your Lordship's papers, have you got that, it

has got Council delegates, Bxecutive? --- Right.

At / •..

30

I

Collection Number: AD1719

State v S Cooper and 8 others.

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DOCUMENT DETAILS:

Document ID:- AD1719-Vol82 Document Title:- Volume 82, Page 4677 - 4739.