interview · o.k. did you get more than one call, or one call? do you remember? god, i think it was...
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INTERVIEW
09/09/83, 9:16 p.m.
Sgt. Campbell, Lt. Waller of the Duluth Police Department and Vinette Burrlyno
Hallgren, DOB 11/01/60, Superior, Wisconsin.
Basically, what we want to go over with you, we didn't work on the original
missing investigation so we're kind of picking it up from a long time past.
Going through the reports, the night that SALLY disappeared, you were
babysitting for your mother?
Ya.
O.K. Where were you living at that time?
1915 West 1st Street.
Now, evidently you got a call from SALLY that night?
Ya, she called and wanted me to come over to her house and get her and bring
her to VIRGIL's so she could get a bottle.
O.K. About what time was that, do you remember?
Somewhere like one o'clock, two o'clock.
O.K., then what happened?
I told her I was babysitting and that I couldn't leave, so she told me she was
going to go down there herself then, and I walked outside and checked and I
didn't see her down by the hotel so I went back in. And I come back out and
she was parked out front and VIRGIL was coming around the corner.
Parked out front where now?
Of the Seaway.
O.K. Did you get more than one call, or one call? Do you remember?
God, I think it was just the one.
O.K. So, you got a call from her somewhere between one and two?
It was before the bars close.
O.K. And she wanted you to come and pick her up?
Ya, pick her up at her house.
O.K., and she was living where then?
On 1st.
O.K. And, take her to the Seaway?
Dh uh.
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And you told her that you were babysitting, you couldn't go?
Yup.
So she said she would go there herself?
Ya. She said she'd drive down then herself.
O.K. So then you went outside, that's right you were living in the West End
then.
Ya. It's Peterson Finance. _______ the back apartment.
O.K. So then you could see the front of the Seaway?
Ya. It's just like half a block.
O.K. So that when you went out there you saw her there?
Well, the first time I went out there she wasn't there, but the second time I
went back out and checked just a couple minutes later, the car was out there.
O.K. Whereabouts was the car at?
Right out front. Like in the taxistand.
O.K. Where it says taxi parking, there, diagonally in front there?
Uhmm, parked at the angle to the street.
O.K. An angle, Did you see her in the car?
I could see someone was sittin in it, I presumed SALLY.
O.K. And you saw VIRGIL?
Ya, he was coming around the side of the hotel.
You knew VIRGIL?
Ya.
Are you sure it was him, or could it have been someone else?
No. It was VIRGIL.
O.K. Was he carrying anything?
He was carrying a bottle.
How do you know it was a bottle?
Cause he didn't have it wrapped. He was just hanging onto it.
O.K. And, did you see him get in the car?
No. Mom and JERRY come down to the corner then and I just went back in.
What do you mean, they came down to the corner?
Well, they come off the freeway ramp. They come back from Superior and they
pulled up to the stop sign by the hotel, so I just went back in the house.
O.K. Did SALLY say anything else to you then, at that time that she wanted you
to come and pick her up. Did she say anything else?
She was pretty drunk. She told me she wanted a bottle from VIRGIL and she
wanted me to come get her and take her down there to get one and then bring her
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back home. But, that was all she said. She kept saying, Come on and get me.
I wanna get a bottle.
Campbell: O.K. Did she talk about whether JERRY was home or not?
Hallgren: Na. She didn't really say, but I presume he wasn't, cause if he was there, she
wouldn't a drove anyplace.
Campbell: O.K. Did she say anything to you about she had been thinking about leaving
him?
Hallgren: Um, um, (negative)
Campbell: O.K. Did she seem upset or mad at all?
Hallgren: No. She just sounded like she wanted to finish off a good drunk.
Campbell: She sounded pretty drunk when you talked to her? You've talked to SALLY when
she's been drunk?
Hallgren: Oh ya.
Campbell: O.K. What about VIRGIL. How well did you know VIRGIL?
Hallgren: Ah, I waited on him for a long time at the restaurant. I knew him pretty good.
Campbell: What was the relationship between SALLY and VIRGIL and JERRY?
Hallgren: Just drinking buddies. They got together every now and then over at the house
and drank. That was about it.
Campbell: Did they go out to the bars together?
Hallgren: No, I don't believe so.
Campbell: In other words, just, VIRGIL would go over to the house and they'd have a
couple drinks?
Hallgren: Ya, and they'd take him home or they'd call him a cab and send him home.
Campbell: Did they get along all right together, the three of them?
Hallgren: Ya. They got along pretty good.
Campbell: They were pretty good friends? Do you know how long they had known each other?
Hallgren: A long time, I guess.
Campbell: We are getting a lot of information that VIRGIL was kind of a hustler of
females. Did you get that impression when you had known him?
Hallgren: Well, ya, cause he used to send SAM and lover to see M&K, to get outfits for
different ladies all the time.
Campbell: Did you know if VIRGIL and SALLY had anything going together?
Hallgren: I don't think so.
Campbell: Did he ever mention SALLY?
Hallgren: Uhm, uhm. (negative)
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SALLY every mention VIRGIL?
No, just if he come up in a conversation, ya know.
Just that she knew him?
Ya.
Did they get along O.K.?
Ya. Everybody always got along with VIRGIL. He was easygoing.
Also, in a couple of the reports it mentions that VIRGIL might have been
selling some drugs on the side.
He used to make a lot of offers on different stuff, tell ya he could get it.
O.K. I believe in one report it stated that one time that you may have bought
some marijuana at school for him. And got caught. Is that true?
Ya. I was in the park.
And your mother found it? And your sister got you out of trouble? Is that
true?
Ya. always covers for me. Always did.
Did VIRGIL keep a lot of drugs in his room?
Not usually.
Was he a drug user?
No. He never used it.
How bout SALLY?
The only thing I ever saw SALLY was drink.
O.K. What about JERRY, did he ever use drugs that you know of?
Just once from the doc.
O.K. Did all three of them drink pretty heavy?
VIRGIL didn't drink too often, but he put on a good one every now and then.
How about SALLY and JERRY?
Not really.
How did you first find out that SALLY was missing that morning? Do you
remember who you heard it from?
I think it was Grandma called me, or
from SALLY. Ma asked me and I said,
said and that,
GRANDMA, now who's GRANDMA?
JUDY.
JUDY?
called Ma and asked her if she'd heard
Oh she called and I told Ma what she'd
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DAWSON, JERRY's rna.
O.K.
We told her that we'd seen her over on the side, at the hotel, and that was the
last time we'd seen her.
O.K. What have you, have you heard anything around now, since the car has been
found?
Not really, just everybody asks a lot of questions
But you haven't heard anything since then?
Well, see, and
So you don't hear too much at all?
Not too much, no.
Do you see your mom very often then?
A couple times a week at least.
on what's going on.
Is there anybody you can think of that we should talk to that might be able to
shed some light about how the car and the people got into the bay?
I don't know.
Do you have any idea or why do you think that they would be at the Port
Terminal?
SALLY always used to miss the turn to the High Bridge to go to Superior and
always ended up at the Terminal.
Was SALLY a pretty good driver?
Uhm, uhm, (affirmative)
How about when she was drunk?
Usually when she got drunk she wouldn't drive.
Had you ever ridden with her when she was drunk?
Oh, once or twice. It gets pretty hairy, a couple times.
But, she made it all right?
She always knew where she was going.
Did she like to drive fast?
It depended on where she was going, if she knew who was on duty.
Was she a cautious driver, or did she just like to to put the pedal to the
metal?
Depending on how drunk she was. If she was really plastered, she'd start
sailing.
Did SALLY drink every day?
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I don't think so. No, I think just usually weekends maybe.
When she drank, did she always get drunk?
Ya. I would say that one she did. She'd get definitely out of it.
Did JERRY go out by himself often?
Uhm, uhm. (negative) If JERRY was out, SALLY
Now you said that VIRGIL and SALLY and JERRY
You mean their house?
Uh, uh. (affirmative)
You've seen them there together?
Ya.
How many times?
I'd say a dozen, or two dozen times.
That you've seen them there?
Ya.
was there always.
would get together at the house.
So, they could have been there even more than that?
Ya. I don't see SALLY much after the truck stop went out. didn't see them
very often after that. But, when I was over there about a dozen or two dozen
times, VIRGIL was over there.
When they got together, did they always drink?
Usually.
Did you ever see drugs in VIRGIL's room?
Na, I can't say I did, cause was right here, but a
______________ , but that was usually about the extent.
When you say a dime, you mean a bag?
Ya, a dime bag. He'd get just like five, six joints and keep it around and if
one of the girls came over he'd give em some if they wanted it, or, but he
never used it. I never seen any laying around there.
O.K., you never saw him use any drugs?
Uhm, uhm. (negative)
Now you mentioned that JERRY used drugs that he got from the doctor. Do you
know what kind of drugs he took?
I believe he was on something for high blood pressure and something for his
heart.
For his heart?
Ya.
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Do you know if he took any tranquilizers?
I couldn't tell ya.
When you say that he uses drugs that he got from the doctor, did he use them or
just take them as prescribed?
He would usually take them as prescribed, but if he got pretty well bended he
might forget how long before that he had taken one. But, he'd always ask SALLY
or of Ma was out with him or somewheres around, he'd say when did I take it.
Were you at the funeral?
For SALLY? Uhm, uhm. (negative)
That was just the family?
More or less, ya.
Did all the kids come?
Uhm, uhro. (affirmative)
Why doesn't TOMMY get along with the
Cause his wife's got a mulatto child.
Pardon me.
His wife's got a mulatto child.
Mulatto?
Ya.
Half -black?
rest of the family?
Ya, and Grandma's pretty old and set in her ways. It kind of all happened
quick and directions. I know they talk to each
other.
Is he still married to the gal?
Uhm, uhro. (affirmative)
Now, you said that SALLY always missed the High Bridge. Do you know that from
personal experience?
I was with her about three or four different times that she'd miss it. I know
that told me once that they were going over to Superior to go
shopping or pick up something, and she said SALLY went right past it and ended
up down at the Terminal, so she had to go back up and go back on again.
O.K. You say three or four times you were with her?
Uh, uh. (affirmative)
Now you mentioned VIRGIL ladies. Do you know who some of his ladies were?
I met a couple of them, going or out, but I never stopped and asked about them
or nothing.
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Were these friends or were these hookers?
That's hard to say. VIRGIL always bought em an outfit. He would get 'em a
complete wardrobe, or dresses. Nylons and the whole nine yards he'd have us
go over and get it at M&K, and then we'd bring it back over to him at the hotel
and then when they'd come over he'd give it to 'em.
Was it your opinion that he was paying for attention ?
Ya. I think so.
Were these younger women?
Ya, most of 'em were in their twenties, early thirties.
Were these people that you had seen before?
Maybe I'd seen 'em once or twice you'd see the same one. That was about it.
Did you ever buy a bottle from VIRGIL after the bars closed?
Not after the bars closed. I was gonna have SHAWN go get me one and I couldn't
find her, so I went over and got one from VIRGIL to go to a party with.
What did he charge for a quart?
I got a quart of PETRI from him. That was, he wanted five dollars for it.
Five dollars?
Uh, uh. (affirmative)
Did he ever try to get you to go to bed with him in payment for alcohol?
Uh, uh. (negative)
Did he ever hit on ya at all?
A couple times when he was really drunk. He was off on like a two-day drunk,
but he grabbed for me and I just tell him to behave himself and slap him. He'd
pretty much just stay to himself after that. He'd pick on somebody else.
Do you know of anybody else that he tried to give attention to?
He always tried on SHAWN. She'd always just told him to go away.
Did you ever see him do that with SALLY?
No, I can't believe I ever did.
What was the relationship of the family during the funeral?
It was ... everybody got along really good and talked. It was pretty mellow
out there.
What do you really think happened?
don't know. I'm not too sure, but ....
Everybody's got an opinion. You must have one.
Oh, a lot of people when it first happened, said Uncle JERRY did it, and
don't think he did anything like that. I think maybe, I don't know, VIRGIL, a
lot of people said that he was dealing with some people out in West Duluth and
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he maybe screwed them guys over or something, and they did it or, but I'm not
really sure. I wasn't sure then and I'm still not sure.
Do you know who any of these guys in West Duluth are?
, but I
around any more.
Do you know anybody that ever bought any hard
that told you that they did?
What are you referring to as hard drugs?
Something other than marijuana or hash?
Cocaine, speed.
don't think any of 'em are
drugs from VIRGIL? Somebody
No. Mostly just like _______ sticks or joints. That was about it, never
VIRGIL wasn't too much of, he just usually
got it for around, if the girls wanted it or anything like that and
So you're not saying that he was a big dealer?
Urn, urn. (negative)
What does JERRY say happened? What is his theory?
Uncle JERRY?
Ya.
He doesn't really say, but I talked to him a few times and he started to wonder
about where she could be, and I know he's looked allover for her. Her and Mom
and looked. He's always wondered what
happened. He's always said he wished something would happen, one way or
another, so that they'd know. Ya know, even if it was just somebody found her
and she said I don't want to come home.
What kind of jewelry did SALLY wear?
She always wore a big .. I believe it was a diamond on this hand.
On her left hand?
Ya. A great big one. She had a watch that had her initials on it and the
diamonds, and then she had the dragon ring with emeralds.
How about a necklace?
I don't know. I don't think I ever really seen her wear necklaces. Usually
when I'd see her, she was at work. Or just getting home.
What was the relationship between her and JERRY?
You mean how was it?
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Ya.
About like anybody else's.
Explain that.
Oh, like mine and BILL's, we gaet along for a while and then we get in an
argument and not talk to each other for a couple days. That's about how theirs
was.
Do you know what they argued about when they argued?
Usually the restaurant. SALLY'd want to work less hours or more hours and
JERRY'd tell her no, and they'd get in an argument about it.
Have you heard what they were arguing about that night?
No. I didn't know there was an argument.
Well, she had told somebody on the telephone that she was gonna leave.
I didn't know they had been arguing that night. She hadn't said anything
about it when I talked to her.
Do you know who JERRY was out with that night?
BOB BEAUDIN.
Do you know where BOB BEAUDIN is now?
God, I couldn't tell ya. The last time I knew he was still in Duluth.
How long ago was that?
About three, four years ago.
Are he and his wife still together?
I'm not really sure. I moved to Superior and kinda lost track over here. I
stayed pretty much home.
How about JIM ZOLLAR?
He's with TERRY in the locksmith, or was. God, I haven't seen him in a long
time. It's been at least a couple years.
But, that last you heard, he was in the locksmith business with TERRY?
TERRY, ya.
Are you aware that at one time SALLY took off before?
Ya.
O.K. Do you remember, what happened then?
Oh, she just wandered off. I think she was drinking and she wandered off and
she called Ma to have her come get her or something.
Somewhere up in Floodwood or whatever it was or something? Do you remember
where it was?
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I think it was Bemidji or Grand Rapids.
O.K. So then your mother went up and got her?
And brought her back home. She wanted to come back home.
O.K. Do you know where VIRGIL got the drugs?
He usually said after he was getting it.
Is DONNETTE still working at Captain ?
No.
Do you know how long she worked there?
I'd say on and off for about three, four years.
O.K. Now, going back to when you, you go downstairs, SALLY called ya and then
you told her that you're not coming over, she says well, I'll go get it myself.
Right?
Uh, uh. (affirmative)
You go downstairs the first time and you look down and you don I t see the car?
There wasn't nobody parked out front.
You go down, how long afterwards did you go down the second time?
Just a few minutes, about five minutes.
And then you see the car parked out front?
Uh, uh. (affirmative)
Pretty sure that it was her car?
Ya. 'Cause JERRY'd just barely gotten it and he brought it to McDonald's
Restaurant.
And the car is parked in the taxi stand?
Ya.
And you see VIRGIL coming from the side of the hotel?
Ya.
That'd be the 20th Ave. West side?
Ya.
O.K. And then ... go ahead.
He was just rounding the corner by the stairs to go down on
And then you see your Mom and JERRY?
Ya. My stepdad.
Your stepdad. Pull up to the stop sign on 20th?
Ya. Coming down from the avenue.
O.K. How long before, and you went back upstairs?
the side there.
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Dh, uh. (affirmative)
How long before your Mom and Daddy got home then?
Just a matter of a couple minutes.
O.K. So then they just came right up the street?
Ya. When she come in, she said she'd seen SALLY over there. And, I told her
ya, she'd called and wanted me to come and get her and take her over to
VIRGIL's and I told her no. and Ma
come around the block and parked to
Do you know LYNN BURTON?
JERRY's girlfriend?
Ya.
Little bit.
How long have you known her?
said they'd seen her out there, so they just
come in.
It was right after her and JERRY got together.
How well do you know her?
Not really too good. I don't get along with her too good.
Why?
I don't like her.
Why?
I don't like her attitude I guess. That's it.
What kind of attitude does she have?
Like she's better than everybody and things should always go her way.
How do her and JERRY get along?
Pretty good usually.
How old is LYNN?
I think she's my age. 220r21.
She's not very old is she?
Dh, uh. (negative)
Was LYNN staying with JERRY and SALLY?
I don't remember. I don't think so.
that long.
Before SALLY disappeared?
It doesn't seem like she's been around
Now, you really have no opinions of what happened at all, one way or the other?
I'm not too sure.
When you saw VIRGIL coming out of the hotel, did he walk okay?
Like he usually did.
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I mean he wasn't staggering like he was drunk?
Dh, uh. (negative) He usually didn't drink too much.
over and have a beer, two beers and then he'd go home,
______________ and get drunk.
Anything else you can think of?
So, when you talked to SALLY on the phone that night,
anything about leaving JERRY?
Dh, uh. (negative) The only thing she kept saying was,
me. I want to go to VIRGIL's and get a bottle.
Did you get any calls after that, where somebody hung up?
No, I don't believe so.
He might maybe walk
but sometimes he'd go
she never mentioned
will you come and get
What time do you think the call was from SALLY?
It was right before the bars close. I can't remember if it was one o'clock
closing or two o'clock, but it wasn't too long before they closed. It was
somewhere right between one and two.
So, she never mentioned to you, whether JERRY was home or not?
Dh, uh. (negative)
O.K. I can't think of anything else either, VINETTE. Everything you've told
us is the truth, right?
Dh, uh. (affirmative)
Is most of this pretty clear in your mind, or is it kind of hazy?
Just like, a few things that are a little hazy, but ..
But you're sure about the fact of getting the phone call and going down and
seeing the car in the front and seeing VIRGIL and the whole thing?
That I remember. Ya.
If we have any more questions, can we feel free to get hold of you and talk to
you again?
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