isc minutes 29 november 2011

8/2/2019 ISC Minutes 29 November 2011

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Minutes 29 November 2011

Skype Meeting

Attending: CYZ, MW, DS, DE, ES, NH

IMMIGRATION

DS: Immigration. UKBA issues have caused immigration to be hot topic again.

DS: Worried about plan with Brody Clark and net migration paper on BBC.

Article says net migration has not lowered that much. IS worried about working

rights. Cant wait until next election. Number of hours and PSWV. PSWV

replacement has not been confirmed. Business and Education Forum to create a

strategy for net migration. Biggest issue is organization. Spoken to LB and

UKCISA. Cant ask for staff support but need a volunteer group to run campaign.

NH: explained her letter writing campaign

DS: capacity is an issue. We need to get this group together.

NH: wont happen till feb

CYZ: likes NH idea. PSWV is not confirmed yet. Need to get more information out

because different groups making decisions. Need to get business zones informed.

We need to put a survey together to find out how we can enhance IS

employability. Need to lobby to get provision we want in place.

DE: getting a form up like consultation for visa changes. Letters to mps as well.

NH: agreed. Thats what meant.

ES: Volunteer group is fine with me, but if there are rapid developments (e.g.

Theresa May resigns) we'll all need to have information to hand so we can

intervene fast.

ES: I think we should all keep in mind the nature of the attack on visa &

immigration is ideological, so fact-based submissions, while useful, will not have

the effect they would have if we were talking to rational people. Letter-writing

will have more effect. I think we can also get councils with lots of uni students to

apply pressure within parties -- or example, here in Cardiff, the Lib Dem andPlaid groups both oppose the PSW changes and we might be able to get them to

put pressure on the Lib Dem MP.

CYZ: lobby to have potential London ministers to include IS issues in their

manifesto because IS can vote.

DS: Asked when the elections are

DE: May 2012

NH: need to have a lot of evidence.

ACTION: NH to type up draft of letter


2/6

ES: Boris Johnson versus Red Ken from Labour. Ken Livingstone (former mayor).

Same time as local elections in Wales & Scotland. All EU citizens can vote in local

elections. Also Commonwealth nationals with permanent leave to remain but

this excludes almost all international non-EU students.

CYZ: need to make sure we lobby the nations and national issue.

ES: Wales stats are easy. London stats will be a nightmare -- NUS London

region's resources will have to be brought to bear to compile that. stats =

statistics on economic impact of international students.

CYZ: asked ES to explain

ES: It means that one person cannot get the data on where international students

are & how much they're contributing to the economy in London. Too many

universities, too many councils. And all the colleges in London as well...

DS: Really wants to try and get a volunteer group together

ACTION: CYZ email Universities UK to find out economic impact.

ES: Nikki: Easiest approximation would be, figure out which unis have the most

international students in Scotland (should be a fairly short list), assume they all

live within the same council area as the university they attend. Then guess. You'll

probably come within ~30% of the right number.

NH: explained the UKBA capping on years for visa

DS: Tier 2 starting graduate salary of 20K as part of criteria

CYZ: explained issues around Pharmacy students and the amount of practice

DE: LB says we need to work on one issue (immigration) because we need to

provide support that we are achieving issues

DS: LB said we need to target staff support on immigration

NH: expresses her concern with LB and his advice. Cant only focus on one thing

because we are not fully representing our membership

MW: agrees. He sees LB point and reasoning but does not agree

DS: met with a representative of the UKBA yesterday. Hes trying to produce new

documentation for students wanting to apply for a VISA and get the UKBA to

adopt it. Its a booklet which tries to make the system as transparent as possible

using diagrams, pictures and case studies. Hes indicated that currently UKCISA

and UUK are saying they support the project. Im contacting Dominic Scott from

UKCISA to ensure thats the case. He wants us to endorse the document on behalf

of NUS, help with Quality Assurance and support it in the distribution.

Ultimately, it is the decision for this committee to do. I suggest that maybe we get

some people from the committee to meet with him.


3/6

ES: Increased transparency is good but we can't let this be an excuse to

"simplify" the system in a way that eliminates hard-won rights for special or

unusual cases, e.g. rights for spouses & family of international students.

CYZ: We should invite the man to 13 December 2011

DS: It covers everything from language to families. Should invite him.

ES: OK. If there are no substantive changes to the existing rules then I've always

been a big fan of comic books.

MW: agree if it can be done.

NH: WE need to make sure written clearly and clear on what is happening in the

Nations.

DS: I'll ask him to come to the International Networking Day- he wants us to be

involved in Quality Assurance and is COMPLETELY willing to accept any changes

NUS INVOLVEMENT WITH ISC

DS: What are we doing to scrutenise the VPS work. VPs and zones should be

doing more on IS. We should ask them to outline what they are doing about IS

NH: argh NUS

MW: Fiona has less finance and support and could start arguing for more.

Meeting about sections on Saturday.

DS: We need to be tactful about how doing. Everyone should be getting moremoney and more support

ES: I can note that Christina and I have been plotting a project which would bring

in Welfare zone & others jointly working with us. I agree with Nikki too. Surya

Bhatta would have been the right person to bring in on this, but this does not

solve the problem of Zone Jealousy nor of Labour Students jealousy.

DE: Cross campus support. UA and EM mandated by conference to work on these

issues

CYZ: another issue we need to work on. Lots of IS studying around the world.

DE: If we need to mandate them by motion, then we need to do that for national

conference.

NH: NUS Scotland is better at working on IS issues than NUS UK

CYZ: Agree. Scot Gov is much better and more generous.

ES: NUS Wales is not entirely clear on how NUS Wales works. However,

international issues are not a devolved area here -- we can't legally be in the

same place Scotland is without another Government of Wales Act. so basically,

assume Wales policy is the same as Scotland policy except on issues of funding &fees.


4/6

DS: What is the secret in Scotland?

NH: Were nicer

DS: what is one way we can get NUSUK Officers to do something short of

motions?

ACTION: CYZ draft emails to formally request updates for what is being

done.

MW: should send it as the whole committee so its professional and we can use it

as proof if they dont reply. Identify VPs and issues they mightwant to work on.

CYZ: we need to make sure if they are interested to add their name to something

or interested in actually working on issues.

DS: need to apply pressure to make sure we get what we want.

NH: what about putting things through NEC

DE: how likely are we to get it put through?

MW: very easy to vote down a motion if dont like it.

ES: The trick is to pass a motion saying NEC "accepts the recommendations of the

report from the International Students Section", and put the detailed stuff in the

report.

MW: not likely

DS: NEC not for next couple months. Can spend some time lobbying NEC

members to vote for it.

CYZ: Wales update?

ES: There is no information from Wales. I still have not received any kind of

report back from NUS Wales Council. I am now beginning to down the existence

of Andy Patton -- he may be an elaborate construct invented by NUS Wales so

nobody has to actually handle international issues in Wales.

CYZ: NUS Wales said IS Conference?

ES: Yeah, I've asked Andy about that, I've asked Luke Young about that...no action

whatsoever. I think we can get a Wales conference together easily (only 11

universities here) BUT it would mean Luke agreeing to it.

NH: Concerns with staff support and attendance. Need to perfect our conference

CYZ: Nations sending reps to ESU

MW: Can send but would be speaking only not voting. LB says they can go but

have to be paid for on their own

ES: I don't object to there being a separate Wales representative but I don't knowwhat benefit there would be to Welsh students from it.


5/6

NH: Explained Scotland.

CYZ: Fees. How will 9k fees impact IS fees? NEC said institutions are thinking

about rising PG fees.

DS: Demand is something that will play part. IS fees will reflect visa restrictions.

Restrictions are going to result in drop in application.

ES: I think if we want to make an educated guess we can say that the

international fee will not rise above the level of United States fees, simply

because that's how the market sets prices.

NH: It will affect the nations differently but they will go up no matter what

because they are unregulated.

MW: They will go up every year but it depends on how much they will go up.

Briefing to remind officers who sit on committees to look at how these fees are

being handled. Work with PG campaign on this.

DS: Need to introduce some bureaucracy for IS fees. Need to introduce criteria

and requirements in order to raise fees.

NH: going to receive lots of resistance.

DS: We can get them on board. Principals, UKISA, NUS, QAA, UKBA.

NH: UKBA wont care

ES: the Russell Group was asking for there to be no cap on fees. They'll never

support a cap. I think it would be toxic to get UKBA on board.

NH: We dont have the support in order to get where we need to be.

DE: dont know how we go about to get the support

MW: Needs to be a logic in setting fees. Need to work on short term on a local

level and then move to national level. Get Unions and officers to have a closer

look at fees and try to effect change. Also need to look at long term.

ES: would suggest that maybe we could pitch the campaign as an agitation one,

with a goal we can't possibly get soon but that's simple -- "equal fees with home

students" maybe. "If you offer a lion half a steak, he'll take half a steak." This

would also subtly pressure other sections to take that demand on (or else, we

say to them "why aren't you trying to get a fair deal for all the students you

represent?")

ACTION: DS send fee plan around the committee

CYZ: Run a consultation over Christmas period

MW: Need to remind officers to there are other fees to be set

ACTION: 9 December committee to feedback on fee consultation. NH willlead with MW.


6/6

NH: Offered help to DE with overseas campuses in Dubai.

ACTION: NH to get copies of reports from Herriot Watt and Stirling and

send to DE

CYZ: Wants to prepare a briefing about supporting IS over Christmas.

ACTION: 10 December committee to email what is going on with this. DE is

to take lead.

CYZ: Develop a survey to highlight the importance of PSW. Need to get evidence

to demonstrate how big the impact it going to be.

MW: Like the survey we did with Joe last year.

CYZ: Last year only talked about the cancellation. This time want to talk about

the possible solutions to implementation the recommendations.

DE: Do the survey. We need to know the impact before we can move forward.

DS: Should we do both letter writing and survey? Might not get the responses

with the two following on from each other.

ACTION CYZ Email various leaders and ask them for feedback on what they

think about PSW and how they think the best way is to gather opinions.

ACTION CYZ will register committee for 13 December 2011 in Birmingham

and find out where we need to book our travel.

Regional Responsibility

MW: Still collecting. 11 December 2011

NH: Still working on collecting the data. 16 December 2011.

ES: Wales by the 16 December

DE: North West. Almost done with the list.

isc minutes 29 november 2011

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