jones memorial lecture dr. natalia rohatyn-martin november 20, 2017 - university … · 2018. 3....

***Transcript Not Certified Verbatim ***

Janice Plomp, CSR(A), RDR, [email protected]

1Jones Memorial Lecture

Dr. Natalia Rohatyn-Martin

November 20, 2017 - University of Alberta

>> Dr. McQuarrie: GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. I THINK WE WILL GET

STARTED.

I WILL USE THE MIKE. EVERYONE USUALLY TELLS ME I'M LOUD

ENOUGH.

IT IS MY PLEASURE TO WELCOME YOU TO TONIGHT'S JONES MEMORIAL

LECTURE. MY NAME IS LYNN McQUARRIE, AND I WILL BE YOUR MC THIS

EVENING.

ENDOWED PUBLIC LECTURES LIKE THIS ONE ALLOW THE UNIVERSITY

TO BRING CURRENT RESEARCH TO THE BROADEST BASE OF OUR LEARNING

COMMUNITY, AND IT'S WONDERFUL TO SEE SO MANY OF YOU HERE

TONIGHT.

I SEE LOTS OF NEW FACES. WELCOME TO THE LAKELAND CREW AND

THE NORTHLAND CREW AND THE GRANT MACEWAN CREW AND THE ALBERTA

SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF CREW. IT'S AWESOME. AND I SEE LOTS OF

FAMILIAR FACES AS WELL.

AS I WAS THINKING ABOUT TONIGHT, I KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE

THAT ARE ATTENDING VIA LIVE-STREAM TONIGHT HAVE BEEN IN

ATTENDANCE AT THE JONES MEMORIAL LECTURE SINCE ITS FIRST

LECTURE, WHICH WAS IN 1988. 29 YEARS AGO! I WAS ONE OF THOSE

PEOPLE, ALTHOUGH I AM PRETENDING THAT I AM STILL 29.

WE ARE ALSO LIVE-STREAMING THIS PRESENTATION TONIGHT.

JOINING US FROM -- COLLEAGUES AND COMMUNITY FRIENDS AND PARTNERS

JOINING US FROM AFAR: FROM CALGARY, FROM VANCOUVER, FROM



2NEWFOUNDLAND, FROM ONTARIO, FROM WINNIPEG, AND EVEN FROM MEXICO.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING AS WELL.

I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE DR. JENNIFER TUPPER, DEAN OF THE

FACULTY OF EDUCATION, TO BRING GREETINGS FROM THE FACULTY AND

THE UNIVERSITY OF ALBERTA.

DR. TUPPER.

>> Dr. Tupper: THANK YOU, LYNN. I THINK YOU STILL LOOK 29!

>> Dr. McQuarrie: I LOVE YOU.

>> Dr. Tupper: WELCOME ON BEHALF OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ALBERTA AND

THE FACULTY OF EDUCATION, AND A SPECIAL WELCOME TO DR. NATALIA

ROHATYN-MARTIN WHO WILL BE DELIVERING THE 2017 JONES MEMORIAL

LECTURE.

AND OF COURSE, WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU THAT ARE JOINING US VIA

LIVE-STREAM THIS EVENING.

I WANT TO BEGIN IN A GOOD WAY, BY ACKNOWLEDGING THAT WE ARE

TOGETHER THIS EVENING IN TREATY 6, THE TERRITORY OF DIVERSE

INDIGENOUS GROUPS, INCLUDING THE CREE, THE BLACKFOOT, THE

SAULTEAUX, THE NAKOTA SIOUX, THE DENE, AND THE METIS PEOPLES OF

ALBERTA. TREATIES ARE FOUNDATIONAL TO OUR PAST AND CRITICAL FOR

OUR SHARED FUTURE. AS SUCH, IT IS IMPORTANT TO HONOUR THE

SPIRIT AND INTENT OF TREATIES AND THE TREATY RELATIONSHIP.

AS LYNN SAID, MY NAME IS DR. JENNIFER TUPPER, AND I AM THE

NEWLY APPOINTED DEAN OF THE FACULTY OF EDUCATION.

MY OWN RESEARCH AND SCHOLARLY INTERESTS ARE GROUNDED IN

SOCIAL JUSTICE, COMMITMENTS WHICH GREW AND FLOURISHED WHEN I WAS

AN UNDERGRADUATE HERE IN THE FACULTY OF EDUCATION -- PROBABLY 29

YEARS AGO -- AND A DOCTORAL STUDENT IN THE FACULTY OF EDUCATION.



3AND I AM SO DEEPLY PROUD OF THIS FACULTY. I AM PROUD TO BE AN

ALUMNUS OF THIS FACULTY, AND I AM NOW SO PROUD TO BE THE DEAN OF

THIS FACULTY.

SO MY OWN COMMITMENTS AND THE COMMITMENTS OF EDUCATION ALIGN

WITH THE GOALS OF THE JONES MEMORIAL LECTURE SERIES AND THE

WESTERN CANADIAN CENTRE FOR DEAF STUDIES, WHICH MAKES ESSENTIAL

THE IMPORTANCE OF SUPPORTIVE EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR DEAF

AND HARD OF HEARING YOUTH THAT CREATE CONDITIONS FOR THEM TO

FLOURISH AND TO THRIVE IN THE WORLD.

THREE YEARS AGO I WAS A FACULTY MEMBER AND THE ACADEMIC DEAN

OF THE FACULTY OF EDUCATION AT THE UNIVERSITY OF REGINA, AND I

HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH A DOCTORAL SEMINAR IN CURRICULUM

THEORY. ONE OF MY STUDENTS, AN AMAZING THINKER AND AMAZING

TEACHER AND AMAZING DOCTORAL STUDENT, WAS DEAF. AND I WAS SO

VERY GRATEFUL TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE HER IN MY CLASS

AND TO LEARN FROM HER. SHE OFFERED EACH ONE OF US SO MUCH IN

THE CONTEXT OF THAT DOCTORAL SEMINAR.

SHE TAUGHT US THE IMPORTANCE OF CREATING RESPONSIVE AND

SUPPORTIVE LEARNING SPACES FOR DEAF AND HARD OF HEARING

STUDENTS, AND I LEARNED FROM HER HOW I COULD BE MORE THOUGHTFUL

IN MY OWN PEDAGOGICAL PRACTICES. AND I ALSO LEARNED FROM HER

THE VERY REAL CHALLENGES THAT DEAF AND HARD OF HEARING YOUNG

PEOPLE AND ADULTS EXPERIENCE EVERY DAY WHEN THEY ARE IN SPACES

THAT ARE NOT RESPONSIVE AND NOT SUPPORTIVE.

SHE ALWAYS SPOKE VERY HIGHLY OF THE WORK BEING DONE IN

ALBERTA. SHE WAS OFTEN VERY CRITICAL OF THE LACK OF WORK BEING

DONE IN SASKATCHEWAN, AND SHE COMMENTED ESPECIALLY THAT IT WAS



4THE LEADERSHIP OF THE WCCDS THAT MADE SUCH A DIFFERENCE. BUT

THAT, OF COURSE, THERE IS ALWAYS MORE WORK AND MORE LEARNING FOR

US TO DO.

SO AS SUCH, I AM DEEPLY GRATEFUL TO MRS. PAT EIDEM AND

DR. ROD EIDEM FOR THEIR ONGOING SUPPORT OF THIS ENDOWED LECTURE

SERIES WHICH HAS BROUGHT US ALL TOGETHER TONIGHT. AND WHILE

THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO BE WITH US, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT I AND

INDEED ALL OF US PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR SUPPORT. WOULD YOU

JOIN ME IN ACKNOWLEDGING THEIR SUPPORT.

(Applause)

AND, OF COURSE, I ALSO WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND THANK DR. LYNN

McQUARRIE, OUR DAVID PEIKOFF CHAIR OF DEAF STUDIES, FOR HER WORK

AND THE WORK OF THOSE WHO SUPPORTED HER TO ORGANIZE THIS LECTURE

SERIES IN SUCH A CAREFUL AND THOUGHTFUL WAY.

THE JONES LECTURE IS UNDOUBTEDLY ONE OF THE FACULTY'S

PROUDEST AND MOST MEANINGFUL ANNUAL EVENTS, AND I AM SO EXCITED

FOR THE LEARNING IT OFFERS TO EACH ONE OF US, WHETHER WE ARE

TEACHERS, WHETHER WE ARE ACADEMICS, RESEARCHERS, PRACTITIONERS,

OR MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY THAT ARE INTERESTED IN AND INVESTED

IN THIS TOPIC.

SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE WITH ALL OF US THIS

CHILLY EVENING. I TRUST THAT YOU WILL BE ENRICHED AND NOURISHED

AND WARMED THROUGH YOUR TIME HERE WITH OUR WONDERFUL SPEAKER,

WHO I WILL NOW ASK DR. McQUARRIE TO WELCOME AND INTRODUCE TO US.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

(Applause)

>> Dr. McQuarrie: THANK YOU, DR. TUPPER.



5I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD MY PERSONAL THANKS TO MRS. PAT

EIDEM AND THE EIDEM FAMILY FOR MAKING EVENINGS LIKE THIS

POSSIBLE. I AM SORRY THAT THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO JOIN US THIS

EVENING; HOWEVER, I DO KNOW THAT THEY ARE DEFINITELY WITH US IN

SPIRIT AND VERY LIKELY JOINING IN VIA LIVE-STREAM FROM A MUCH

WARMER CLIMATE.

IT'S NOW MY PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE THIS EVENING'S PRESENTER,

DR. NATALIA ROHATYN-MARTIN.

YOUR PROGRAM BOOK GIVES A BRIEF BIOGRAPHY, AND SO I WON'T

REPEAT THAT. BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT I HAVE KNOWN NATALIA

SINCE 2010 WHEN SHE LEFT ONTARIO AND CAME TO ALBERTA TO BEGIN

HER DOCTORAL PROGRAM AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ALBERTA, AND I HAVE

HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE TO COLLABORATE WITH NATALIA ON MANY

DIFFERENT RESEARCH AND COMMUNITY PARTNER INITIATIVES.

SO I KNOW NATALIA TO BE A STRONG SCHOLAR, A TEACHER, A

RESEARCHER, AND AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS PASSIONATE ABOUT IMPROVING

EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES, OUTCOMES, AND ENVIRONMENTS FOR DEAF

AND HARD OF HEARING STUDENTS.

NATALIA RECENTLY COMPLETED HER Ph.D. IN OUR FACULTY, AND I

AM -- JUST A LITTLE ASIDE HERE BECAUSE I AM VERY EXCITED FOR

HER. THIS WEEK IS A BIG WEEK. WEDNESDAY IS HER FORMAL

CONVOCATION, AND I WOULD LIKE TO TELL HER MOTHER AND FATHER, WHO

ARE HERE IN THE AUDIENCE, FLEW IN FROM ONTARIO FOR CONVOCATION,

THAT AS NATALIA WALKS ACROSS THE STAGE, KNOW THAT THIS FACULTY

WILL SHARE YOUR PRIDE. WE ARE PROUD OF HER ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

SO NATALIA'S RESEARCH LOOKED AT THE CHALLENGES OF CLASSROOM

FATIGUE, OF LISTENING AND VIEWING EFFORT, FOR STUDENTS WITH



6HEARING LOSS IN THE CLASSROOM. THE IMPACT OF COGNITIVE FATIGUE

FOR BOTH HARD OF HEARING AND DEAF STUDENTS IS A MUCH

UNDER-RESEARCHED AREA. AND NATALIA'S RESEARCH IS AMONG THE FEW

STUDIES THAT HAVE EXPLORED THIS PHENOMENON FROM THE STUDENT'S

PERSPECTIVE.

SO I AM DELIGHTED THAT ONE OF OUR OWN IS HERE TONIGHT TO

SHARE SOME OF THE LESSONS LEARNED FROM THESE STUDENTS WITH ALL

OF US TONIGHT.

PLEASE JOIN ME IN WELCOMING DR. NATALIA ROHATYN-MARTIN.

(Applause)

>> Dr. Rohatyn-Martin: GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. NICE TO SEE YOU.

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE UNIVERSITY OF ALBERTA FOR HAVING

ME HERE TODAY. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK DR. McQUARRIE, THE WCCDS,

AND THE PEIKOFF CHAIR OF DEAF STUDIES FOR ALLOWING ME TO BE HERE

TODAY AS WELL AS THE WCCDS TEAM WHO HAS WORKED TIRELESSLY TO PUT

THIS TOGETHER TODAY.

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO EXTEND MY THANKS TO THE EIDEM FAMILY

FOR SUPPORTING THE DISSEMINATION OF RESEARCH WHEN IT COMES TO

DEAF EDUCATION. IT'S SO IMPORTANT AND CRITICAL. SO MANY, MANY

THANKS TO THEM.

AND ALSO THANK YOU TO MY FAMILY AND EVERYBODY ELSE WHO HAS

GIVEN ME SOME SUPPORT OR INSPIRATION THROUGHOUT MY JOURNEY THUS

FAR.

SO ENOUGH OF THE THANK YOUS. FOR THE NEXT 60 MINUTES OR SO

I WILL BE TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MY RESEARCH, BUT FIRST I

FIGURED I WOULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MYSELF AND KIND OF MY

CONNECTION TO THE DEAF COMMUNITY.



7SO LYNN DID GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A BRIEF OVERVIEW ABOUT

ME. I WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PAST.

SO I DO HAVE A BROTHER WHO IS PROFOUNDLY DEAF. HE WAS ABOUT

2 AND A HALF YEARS OLD WHEN I CAME INTO THE WORLD, AND MY FAMILY

HAD ALREADY KIND OF STARTED A ROUTINE OF HAVING SPEECH-LANGUAGE

PATHOLOGY LESSONS, AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE LESSONS, AS WELL AS MY

PARENTS TRYING TO BALANCE THEIR EVERYDAY WORK SCHEDULE.

AS I WAS GROWING UP, MY BROTHER WOULD CONSTANTLY BE TEACHING

ME WHAT HE WAS LEARNING AND CONSTANTLY TEACHING ME AMERICAN SIGN

LANGUAGE AND EVERYTHING THAT A BIG BROTHER CAN TEACH A LITTLE

SISTER. AND SO BY THE TIME I WAS 18 MONTHS OLD, MY PARENTS

WOULD OFTEN SAY THAT THEY WOULD FIND THE TWO OF US CONVERSING IN

ASL UNDERNEATH OUR DINING ROOM TABLE. AND USUALLY WHEN WE WERE

UNDER THERE, WE WERE SCHEMING ABOUT SOMETHING AND DIDN'T WANT

MOM AND DAD TO KNOW. SO THAT WAS KIND OF MY INTRODUCTION TO

SIGN LANGUAGE AND REALLY THE DEAF COMMUNITY AS MY BROTHER KIND

OF GREW AND GREW UP WITH THE DEAF COMMUNITY.

AS I CONTINUED -- AS WE BOTH CONTINUED TO GROW, MY BROTHER

WENT TO A SPECIALIZED SETTING FOR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, SO WE WERE

IN DIFFERENT SCHOOLS. AND THEN HE DECIDED TO GO TO A MAINSTREAM

SCHOOL FOR HIGH SCHOOL. SO AGAIN, WE WERE IN DIFFERENT SETTINGS

THERE AS WELL.

BUT OUR PATHS DID MANAGE TO KIND OF GO IN A SIMILAR

DIRECTION. WE BOTH DECIDED TO GO FOR OUR TEACHING DEGREES, AND

HE WENT FOR HIS MASTER'S OF DEAF EDUCATION. I WENT FOR MY

MASTER'S IN EDUCATION, AND THEN I CONTINUED ON TO DO MY Ph.D.

HERE AT THE U of A.



8THERE ARE SEVERAL GENERATIONS OF TEACHERS IN MY FAMILY. YOU

CAN SEE MY MOTHER IN THAT PICTURE THERE. LIKE LYNN SAID, I WILL

BE CONVOCATING THIS WEDNESDAY WITH MY Ph.D.

NOW THAT I AM A WIFE AND MOTHER, I FIND IT REALLY IMPERATIVE

TO REALLY LOOK AT EDUCATION CRITICALLY AND REALLY SEE WHERE IT

IS GOING, NOT ONLY FOR THE DEAF COMMUNITY BUT FOR ALL STUDENTS.

AND THAT KIND OF LEADS ME INTO SOME OF MY RESEARCH.

SO ENOUGH ABOUT ME. LET'S TALK ABOUT WHY WE'RE HERE.

SO FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS, THREE DECADES OR SO, THERE HAS

REALLY BEEN A TREND TOWARDS THE PLACEMENT OF STUDENTS,

ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING, TO BE IN

MAINSTREAM CLASSROOMS AND SCHOOLS.

SO OFTEN YOU WOULD HAVE HEARD MAINSTREAM SCHOOLS, THE TYPES

OF PLACEMENT REFERRED TO AS INTEGRATION OR MAINSTREAM AND MORE

RECENTLY INCLUSIVE.

BUT WHEN I THINK OF INCLUSION, I DON'T THINK ABOUT IT AS

PLACEMENT-BASED. I REALLY THINK ABOUT IT MORE AS A PHILOSOPHY.

SO WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT INCLUSION TODAY, I'M REALLY GOING TO

FOCUS ON THIS DEFINITION HERE.

SO IT'S A PHILOSOPHY THAT PROMOTES COMMUNITY MEMBERSHIP FOR

ALL STUDENTS, WHERE ALL STUDENT LEARNING NEEDS ARE BEING MET AND

WHERE STUDENTS FEEL THAT THEY ARE SOCIALLY WELCOMED AND VALUED

AND THAT THEY LEARN TOGETHER IN CLASSROOMS WITH THEIR PEERS

REGARDLESS OF ANYONE'S DIFFERENCES AND PARTICULAR LEARNING

CHARACTERISTICS.

SO AS I WAS GOING THROUGH THE RESEARCH, I REALLY NOTICED

THAT EDUCATION IS TYPICALLY A ONE-WAY STREAM, AND THERE IS



9REALLY TWO STRANDS THAT FOCUS ON IT.

SO THERE IS INCLUSIVE EDUCATION AND ITS UNDERPINNINGS. SO

THE LEGISLATION THAT LED TO THE MOVEMENT TOWARDS INCLUSION,

PARENTAL ADVOCACY FOR PARENTS WANTING STUDENTS IN CLASSROOMS

THAT REALLY SUPPORT THEIR INDIVIDUAL NEEDS, AND FEDERAL FUNDING.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE CLASSROOM EXPERIENCE. AND WHAT

DOES THAT ENTAIL? SO TEACHER PEDAGOGY, TEACHER TRAINING. SO

THEIR UNDERGRADUATE TRAINING VERSUS PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT

THAT MAY BE HAPPENING AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN TEACHING. DIFFERENT

ADMINISTRATION, SUPPORTS AND SERVICES FOR BOTH TEACHERS AND FOR

STUDENTS, AND THEN OF COURSE PROVINCIAL FUNDING.

NOW, THESE TWO STRANDS KIND OF WEAVE TOGETHER, AND THEY

REALLY DETERMINE THE QUALITY OF EDUCATION THAT'S GIVEN TO

STUDENTS AND INCLUDING STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING.

SO LIKE I SAID, IT'S REALLY A ONE-WAY FOCUS WHEN IT COMES TO

EDUCATION.

AND WHAT I REALLY NOTICED THAT WAS ABSENT IN THE LITERATURE

WAS TALKING TO STUDENTS, THEIR OWN PERCEPTIONS WHEN IT CAME TO

THE IDEA OF INCLUSION.

HOW ARE STUDENTS FEELING ABOUT THIS IDEA OF INCLUSION IN THE

CLASSROOM? WHAT'S WORKING FOR THEM AND WHAT'S NOT? THIS WAS

HARDLY RESEARCHED WHEN IT CAME TO STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD

OF HEARING. AND IT'S VERY VALUABLE FOR EVERYBODY TO REALLY

RECOGNIZE AND UNDERSTAND, ESPECIALLY FOR EDUCATORS AND POLICY

MAKERS AND EVEN FAMILIES AND PARENTS THEMSELVES.

SO FOR MY STUDY, MY DOCTORAL DISSERTATION, I REALLY FOCUSSED

ON RESEARCH THAT EXPLORES THE PERCEPTIONS, LIKE I SAID, OF



10STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING AND THOSE WHO

COMMUNICATE BOTH IN ASL AND THOSE WHO COMMUNICATE IN SPOKEN

ENGLISH.

AND I REALLY WANTED TO CHANGE THE PERCEPTION OF EDUCATION

FROM THAT ONE-WAY VIEW TO SOMETHING MORE HOLISTIC, SOMETHING

MORE CIRCULAR AND SO THAT THERE IS MORE OF A RECIPROCAL KIND OF

FEEDBACK WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION. SO EVERYBODY IS REALLY

BENEFITING, NOT JUST THE STUDENTS.

SO I AM GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT TWO STUDIES THAT I

HAVE REALLY DONE. SO MY DOCTORAL DEFENCE AND THEN ALSO A SMALL

PILOT STUDY THAT KIND OF CAME ABOUT WHILE I WAS DOING MY

DOCTORAL RESEARCH.

SO LIKE I SAID, FOR MY MAIN STUDY, I REALLY WANTED TO

DOCUMENT WHAT STUDENTS THAT WERE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING WERE

SAYING ABOUT WHAT'S REALLY WORKING FOR THEM IN THE CLASSROOM AND

WHAT MIGHT BE IMPEDING SOME SUCCESS.

AND THEN WITH THE PILOT STUDY, ALL I WAS REALLY TRYING TO DO

WAS REFINE SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD BE ASKING MY

STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM, AND A WHOLE OTHER SUBJECT CAME ABOUT.

SO THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.

NOW I'M JUST GETTING AHEAD OF MYSELF, SO I WILL BRING IT

BACK TO MY FIRST STUDY HERE.

SO MY RESEARCH QUESTIONS WHEN IT CAME TO MY STUDY WAS HOW DO

STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING PERCEIVE THEIR

EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCES IN INCLUSIVE SETTINGS.

AND THEN SO TWO SUBSEQUENT RESEARCH QUESTIONS WERE ALSO

BROUGHT ABOUT. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE STUDENT TO BE IN AN



11INCLUSIVE CLASSROOM, AND HOW DO EXPERIENCES OF STUDENTS WHO ARE

DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING DIFFER FROM EACH OTHER?

SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARD TO SEE, BUT THESE ARE THE

PARTICIPANTS THAT I HAD. I HAD SIX PARTICIPANTS. I WAS VERY

BLESSED TO HAVE SIX, THREE MALE AND THREE FEMALE PARTICIPANTS.

THE STUDENTS RANGED FROM GRADE 7 TO GRADE 12, AND THEIR HEARING

LEVELS RANGED FROM SEVERE TO PROFOUND. AND ALL HAD BILATERAL

SENSORINEURAL HEARING LOSS.

SO FOUR STUDENTS USED COCHLEAR IMPLANTS -- SOME HAD ONE,

SOME HAD TWO -- AND THEN TWO STUDENTS USED HEARING AIDS.

TWO STUDENTS COMMUNICATED THROUGH AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE,

ASL. THREE COMMUNICATED THROUGH SPOKEN ENGLISH, AND THEN ONE

COMMUNICATED THROUGH TOTAL COMMUNICATION. AND FOR THAT STUDENT,

THAT WAS SIGNED EXACT ENGLISH AND SPOKEN ENGLISH.

AND THE DIAGNOSIS AND AMPLIFICATION WERE ALL VARIED

DEPENDING ON THE STUDENT.

SO WHEN IT CAME TO MY METHODOLOGY, I WAS REALLY INTERESTED

IN THE STORIES THAT THE STUDENTS HAD TO TELL, SO I USED A

NARRATIVE RESEARCH. I CONDUCTED PRE-INTERVIEW ACTIVITIES WITH

THE STUDENTS, WHICH I WILL TALK ABOUT IN A LITTLE BIT, AND THEN

I CONDUCTED THE INTERVIEWS WITH THE STUDENTS.

SO FOR THE PRE-INTERVIEW ACTIVITIES, THIS WAS ACTIVITIES

THAT I HAD ASKED PARTICIPANTS TO COMPLETE FOR ME, REALLY TO GET

TO KNOW THEM BETTER, TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHO THEY

WERE AND TO REALLY MAKE SURE THAT THEY WERE COMFORTABLE

BASICALLY EXPRESSING THEIR STORIES TO ME.

IT'S REALLY HARD SOMETIMES TO BE SHARING YOUR PERSONAL



12STORIES, YOUR STRUGGLES, YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS WITH SOMEBODY THAT

YOU HARDLY KNOW. SO I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO TRY TO

DO SOME ACTIVITIES TO TRY TO GET TO KNOW THESE STUDENTS A LITTLE

BETTER.

SO TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF PIAs OR PRE-INTERVIEW ACTIVITIES.

ONE WAS MORE PERSONAL AND THEN ONE FOCUSSED MORE ON THE

SCHOOLING ASPECT.

SO AN EXAMPLE OF THE PERSONAL ONE WAS TO CREATE A DRAWING, A

MAP, OR A DIAGRAM OF A PLACE THAT'S IMPORTANT TO THEM AND THEN

TO LABEL IT USING EITHER HASHTAGS OR JUST WORDS OF THINGS THAT

WERE IMPORTANT IN THAT PICTURE.

AND THEN FOR SCHOOLING, AN EXAMPLE OF A PIA WAS TO MAKE A

LIST OF TEN WORDS THAT COME TO MIND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT SCHOOL.

SO FROM THESE PIAs, WE WERE REALLY ABLE TO DELVE DEEPER WHEN

IT CAME TO THE INTERVIEWS AND REALLY GO INTO MORE DETAIL ABOUT

WHAT WAS SIGNIFICANT TO THESE STUDENTS AND WHAT THEY REALLY

WANTED TO SHARE.

SO AGAIN, THEN I CONDUCTED MY INTERVIEWS, AND I HAD BETWEEN

TWO TO THREE INTERVIEWS WITH EACH STUDENT, AND THEN I CONDUCTED

A MEMBER-CHECKING INTERVIEW SO THAT THE STUDENTS COULD GO BACK

OVER ALL OF THE TRANSCRIPTS THAT I HAD CREATED OF WHAT THEY HAD

SAID IN THEIR INTERVIEWS AND TELL ME IF THEY FELT THAT SOME OF

MY INTERPRETATIONS OF WHAT THEY WERE SAYING WERE CORRECT OR IF

THEY WANTED TO ADD ANYTHING, WHICH WAS REALLY VALUABLE.

AND THEN I WON'T GO INTO THIS TOO MUCH, BUT I DID THEN --

FROM THE INTERVIEWS, I CREATED THEMES AND CODES JUST TO REALLY

TALK ABOUT AND TO REALLY SEE WHERE THEIR COMMENTS LIE. SO



13THEMES THAT WERE PROMINENT IN ONE PERSON'S INDIVIDUAL STORIES

AND THEMES THAT WERE KIND OF STANDARD ACROSS WHAT ALL THE

PARTICIPANTS WERE SAYING.

AND SO THIS IS A TABLE OF MY THEMES THAT WERE FOUND AND SOME

OF THE SUBTHEMES. SO THE FOUR MAIN THEMES WERE THE EFFECT OF

COMMUNICATION STYLE ON THEIR SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS, IMPORTANCE OF

LANGUAGE, IDENTITY DEVELOPMENT, AND EDUCATIONAL ADAPTATIONS AND

SUPPORTS.

NOW, ALL OF THESE ARE VERY IMPORTANT, AND I DON'T WANT TO

SAY THAT ANY OF THEM ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE OTHER; BUT JUST

FOR THE SAKE OF TIME, I AM GOING TO FOCUS ON THE EDUCATIONAL

ADAPTATIONS AND SUPPORTS AND ITS SUBTHEMES. SO FATIGUE,

CLASSROOM SUPPORTS, AND IMPROVING CURRICULUM ACCESS.

SO I'M GOING TO START WITH FATIGUE, WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY

PILOT STUDY.

AND SO FIRST I AM GOING TO DEFINE FATIGUE.

SO WHAT IS IT?

IT'S A MULTIFACETED PHENOMENON, AND REALLY ITS CURRENT

DEFINITIONS VARY BASED ON IF IT'S DEFINED SUBJECTIVELY OR

OBJECTIVELY.

SO SUBJECTIVELY, IT'S DEFINED AS A DECLINE IN THE EFFICIENCY

OF AN INDIVIDUAL'S FOCUS, CONCENTRATION, AND ALERTNESS.

AND THEN OBJECTIVELY, IT'S DEFINED AS A DECLINE IN AN

INDIVIDUAL'S PERFORMANCE DUE TO SUSTAINED OR PROLONGED

ACTIVITIES OR DEMANDS.

AND THEN FROM THAT THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF FATIGUE. THERE IS

THE PHYSICAL FATIGUE AND MENTAL FATIGUE. SO THE PHYSICAL



14FATIGUE IS REALLY EXERTION OF AN ACTIVITY THAT CAN RESULT IN

SOME TYPE OF MUSCLE STRAIN.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, SITTING AT A KEYBOARD AND GETTING A CRAMP

IN YOUR HAND OR HAVING TO VISUALLY WATCH AN INTERPRETER AND

GETTING EYE STRAIN.

WHEREAS MENTAL FATIGUE IS REALLY THE MENTAL EXERTION THAT IT

TAKES TO REALLY BE CONCENTRATING ON SOMETHING FOR A PROLONGED

PERIOD OF TIME.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF

HEARING, THERE ARE TWO FACTORS THAT CAN REALLY CONTRIBUTE TO A

STUDENT FEELING FATIGUED. THERE IS THE AUDITORY EFFORT, WHICH

IS COGNITIVE EXERTION REQUIRED TO ATTEND TO AND UNDERSTAND A

SPOKEN MESSAGE. SO ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE ATTENDING TO AUDITORY.

AND THEN THERE IS THE VISUAL EFFORT THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT

FORTH, WHICH WOULD BE PHYSICAL AND MENTAL EXERTION TO ATTEND TO

AND COMPREHEND A MESSAGE. SO TYPICALLY THIS IS WHEN STUDENTS

ARE ATTENDING TO AN INTERPRETER OR IF THEY'RE SPEECH READING.

SO AGAIN, LIKE I FOUND IN PREVIOUS RESEARCH, THERE REALLY IS

NOTHING OUT THERE THAT'S FOCUSSED ON STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR

HARD OF HEARING AND THEIR PERCEPTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO FATIGUE.

THERE IS ACTUALLY ONLY TWO STUDIES THAT I FOUND THAT WERE

FOCUSSED ON STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING AND FATIGUE

AT ALL, AND NEITHER OF THEM ACTUALLY ASKED THE STUDENTS HOW THEY

FELT WHEN IT CAME TO FATIGUE.

SO I FOUND THAT REALLY INTERESTING. SO FROM THAT, I DECIDED

I NEED TO DO SOME TYPE OF A SMALL PILOT STUDY JUST TO SEE WHAT

THE STUDENTS ARE SAYING.



15SO LIKE I SAID, ORIGINALLY I WAS JUST TRYING TO REFINE MY

INTERVIEW QUESTIONS, AND THEN AS I WAS DOING THAT, STUDENTS

STARTED TALKING TO ME ABOUT HOW THEY FELT FATIGUE IN THE

CLASSROOM AND WHEN THEY WERE INTERACTING WITH THEIR TEACHERS AND

PEERS. SO THEN I DECIDED I NEED TO LOOK AT THE LACK OF RESEARCH

WHEN IT CAME TO THE POTENTIALLY DETRIMENTAL EFFECTS OF FATIGUE

FOR EDUCATIONAL OUTCOMES OF STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF

HEARING.

SO AGAIN I USED INTERVIEWS, AND I HAD ABOUT SIX QUESTIONS

FOR STUDENTS, AND FOUR OF THEM WERE FOCUSSED ON FATIGUE.

SO FOR MY PILOT STUDY, I ONLY HAD THREE PARTICIPANTS, AND

ONE WAS A MASTER'S STUDENT IN DEAF EDUCATION AND HE WAS DEAF

HIMSELF, AND I HAD TWO JUNIOR HIGH STUDENTS WHO WERE ALSO DEAF.

THEY ALL RANGED FROM SEVERE TO PROFOUND HEARING LEVELS, AND

THEY ALL USED ASSISTIVE HEARING TECHNOLOGY. TWO USED DIGITAL

HEARING AIDS, AND ONE USED BILATERAL -- HAD BILATERAL COCHLEAR

IMPLANTS.

ALL OF THEM COMMUNICATED WITH ME THROUGH SPOKEN ENGLISH, BUT

TWO OF THEM IN THE CLASSROOM DID UTILIZE AN ASL INTERPRETER.

SO WHEN IT CAME TO FATIGUE, THERE WERE FOUR THINGS THAT I

FOUND: LISTENING EFFORT, LISTENING CONDITIONS, SURVIVAL

MECHANISMS, AND JUST NOT WORTH THE EFFORT.

SO I AM GOING TO SUPPORT THESE BY QUOTES THAT WERE ACTUALLY

SAID BY THE PARTICIPANTS.

SO LISTENING EFFORT: IT'S INCREASED EFFORT REQUIRED TO

LISTEN AND COMPREHEND DURING CLASSROOM CONVERSATIONS AND

INSTRUCTION COMPARED TO THEIR HEARING PEERS. THIS IS TYPICALLY



16WHAT STUDENTS WERE TELLING ME.

SO PETER, FOR EXAMPLE, SAID: "EVERY DAY I HAVE TO

CONCENTRATE ON THE INTERPRETERS OR WHEN PEOPLE TALK TO ME. I

HAVE TO CONCENTRATE ON THE WORDS THAT THEY'RE SAYING TO ME.

IT'S REALLY TIRING, AND FOR SOME REASON I'M NOT ABLE TO STICK IT

IN MY HEAD, NOT FOR A LONG TIME."

HE THEN WENT ON TO EXPLAIN: "I DON'T LIKE TO SIT AND WATCH

THE INTERPRETERS ALL THE TIME BECAUSE HEARING PEOPLE, THEY CAN

MOVE AROUND, OR TEXT, OR DAYDREAM, BUT FOR ME I HAVE TO WATCH

AND CONCENTRATE ALL THE TIME. IT'S TIRING. AND IF I TURN

AROUND I MISS SOMETHING. I DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT CLASS WHEN I

MISS SOMETHING. I FEEL LIKE IT DRAINS ME OUT BECAUSE I CANNOT

USE MY NATURAL LANGUAGE, I HAVE TO CONCENTRATE ON THE

INTERPRETER. LIP READING IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME. WELL, I'M

OKAY WITH A LITTLE BIT AT A TIME, BUT IF IT'S FOR A LONG TIME I

JUST GIVE UP."

AND THEN WHEN IT CAME TO LISTENING CONDITIONS, STUDENTS

TALKED ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS THAT COULD IMPACT THE

ABILITY TO ATTEND TO A MESSAGE.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, MARK SAID, "WHEN THE KIDS ARE VERY, VERY

LOUD, [AND THE NOISE IS] ECHOING [IN] THE ROOM, THEN IF [THE

TEACHER] TRIES TO TALK, I CAN'T HEAR THEM BECAUSE OF THE [NOISE]

ECHOING IN THE CLASSROOM. [ALL THE NOISE] CAN MAKE IT REALLY

HARD TO HEAR SOMETIMES."

AND THEN IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT -- MARK HAD

TALKED TO ME A LOT ABOUT A MALFUNCTIONING FM SYSTEM THAT HE HAD

IN THE CLASSROOM AND HOW HE WAS REALLY FRUSTRATED WITH IT



17SOMETIMES. AND THEN WHEN I BROUGHT THAT UP AND I SAID, WELL, DO

YOU THINK THAT IN SOME WAY COULD CONTRIBUTE TO FATIGUE, HE SAID,

"SOMETIMES IT'S LIKE I'M TRYING TO LISTEN, BUT IT'S TOO NOISY...

SO YEAH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I COULD BE TIRED BECAUSE I WAS

WEARING AN FM UNIT, BUT IT -- WHEN IT WAS MALFUNCTIONING, BUT IT

COULD BE THAT. I TRY REALLY HARD TO LISTEN... BECAUSE A WHOLE

BUNCH OF THE KIDS WERE REALLY LOUD. I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT

BEFORE, BUT IT COULD BE WHY."

SO THE IDEA OF HAVING A MALFUNCTIONING FM SYSTEM, SOMETHING

THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SUPPORTING HIM IN THE CLASSROOM, REALLY

COULD BE CONTRIBUTING TO FATIGUE BECAUSE HE'S WORKING EXTRA HARD

NOW TO TRY TO CONCENTRATE ON WHAT'S BEING SAID IN THE CLASSROOM.

AND THEN THERE WERE SURVIVAL MECHANISMS. SO THIS STUDENT

TALKED ABOUT WHAT THEY ACTUALLY USED IN THE CLASSROOM WHEN THEY

WERE STARTING TO FEEL FATIGUED. WHAT WERE SOME OF THE COPING

MECHANISMS THAT THEY USED.

SO PETER SAID, "IF I FALL BEHIND, SOMETIMES I JUST GIVE UP

AND I NOD. I NOD IN THE CLASSROOM. MY MIND ISN'T ABLE TO WORK

HARD ENOUGH OR FAST ENOUGH TO GET THE WORDS TOGETHER, AND I'M

ONLY ABLE TO PICK UP SOME OF THE PIECES, BUT NOT THE WHOLE

THING."

AND KOHLI SAID, "SOMETIMES I WILL JUST PRETEND TO LISTEN.

SOMETIMES I REALLY AM LISTENING, BUT OTHER TIMES I'M NOT. I'M

JUST PRETENDING.”

AND THAT BROUGHT UP THE CONCERN ABOUT IT JUST NOT BEING

WORTH THE EFFORT. SO WHEN THE SURVIVAL MECHANISMS WERE NO

LONGER EFFECTIVE, WHAT DO STUDENTS DO?



18WELL, MARK TOLD ME THAT HE SIMPLY JUST PUT HIS HEAD DOWN HE

THOUGHT, WHAT'S THE POINT? SO HE PUT HIS HEAD DOWN AND THOUGHT

ABOUT OTHER THINGS. AND AT THAT POINT HE'S COMPLETELY

DISENGAGED FROM WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CLASSROOM. HE IS MISSING

EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING SIMPLY BECAUSE HE'S EXHAUSTED WITH

TRYING TO TAKE ALL THIS INFORMATION IN.

SO REGARDLESS IF STUDENTS WERE AMPLIFIED OR IF THEY USED AN

INTERPRETER, SEVERAL REALLY FELT THAT THEY WERE FEELING LIKE

THEY WERE PUTTING FORTH A LOT MORE EFFORT THAN THEY THOUGHT

THEIR HEARING PEERS WOULD NEED TO IN THE CLASSROOM. THEY HAD

DIFFICULTY LOCATING SOUND SOURCES, UNDERSTANDING TEACHER

INSTRUCTIONS, AND SOMETIMES FOLLOWING CLASSROOM DISCUSSIONS.

KOHLI SAID, "I HAVE TO WORK HARDER WATCHING THE INTERPRETER.

THERE'S JUST SO MUCH TO CATCH UP ON. I HAVE TO RUSH TO GET MY

NOTES DOWN AND THEN LEARN IT ON MY OWN. I DON'T HAVE TINE TO

LEARN IT AT THE SAME TIME THAT I WRITE BECAUSE I'M TOO BUSY

TRYING TO WRITE WHAT THE INTERPRETER IS SAYING."

SO IT'S REALLY STRESSFUL. IT'S REALLY EXHAUSTING TO BE ABLE

TO HAVE TO MANAGE SEVERAL THINGS ON THE GO.

SO WHAT DO THESE STUDENTS ACTUALLY SAY THAT THEY WOULD LOVE

TO SEE EDUCATORS OR PARENTS KNOW OR MAYBE CHANGE IN THE

CLASSROOM? WHEN IT CAME TO THE EFFORT REQUIRED THAT STUDENTS

HAD TO PUT FORWARD IN THE CLASSROOM TO PARTICIPATE IN THEIR

CLASS LESSONS, OFFER FREQUENT BREAKS. ALTERNATE BETWEEN WHOLE

CLASS AND SMALL GROUP LESSONS. COMBINE AUDITORY, VISUAL, AND

KINESTHETIC LEARNING OPPORTUNITIES WITHIN YOUR LESSONS AND

REDUCE SPEAKER OVERLAP IN CLASSROOM DISCUSSIONS.



19AND WHEN IT CAME TO DEVELOPING APPROPRIATE COPING

MECHANISMS, FOR BOTH THE STUDENTS AND THE EDUCATORS TO BE ABLE

TO DEVELOP AN AWARENESS OF SPECIFIC FATIGUE CHALLENGES FOR THESE

STUDENTS. RECOGNIZING WHAT FATIGUE LOOKS LIKE FOR THEM AND THEN

TRYING TO DISCERN WHAT APPROPRIATE COPING STRATEGIES WOULD BE.

AND I WILL TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT LATER IN MY

PRESENTATION.

SO NOW MOVING AWAY FROM FATIGUE AND THINKING ABOUT CLASSROOM

SUPPORTS.

SO FOUR THEMES REALLY CAME ABOUT WHEN LOOKING AT CLASSROOM

SUPPORTS. AGAIN, NOT THAT ANY ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE

OTHERS, BUT I WILL JUST PICK TWO OUT OF THE FOUR TO KEEP TRACK

WITH MY TIME. SO I WILL GO WITH THE ASSISTANCE FROM CLASSROOM

PERSONNEL AND ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY.

SO WHEN IT CAME TO CLASSROOM SUPPORTS, SEVERAL STUDENTS

TALKED ABOUT UTILIZING CLASSROOM PERSONNEL, SUCH AS EAs OR

INTERPRETERS.

SO TWO OUT OF MY SIX PARTICIPANTS ACTUALLY HAD EAs IN THE

CLASSROOM, AND THEY TALKED ABOUT THEIR -- THEY TALKED ABOUT

THEIR EXPERIENCES WHEN IT CAME TO HAVING AN EA AND THEIR COMFORT

LEVEL WHEN IT ACTUALLY CAME TO SPEAKING WITH AN EA VERSUS WITH

THEIR CLASSROOM TEACHER.

SO CAITLYN SAID, "TEACHERS TERRIFY ME. I DON'T LIKE ASKING

QUESTIONS TO THEM. SO WITH THE EA, I'M MORE COMFORTABLE THAN I

AM WITH THEM, SO THEY COME AND HELP ME. I DON'T MIND THAT. BUT

WHEN IT'S A TEACHER ... I DON'T KNOW. THEY JUST TERRIFY ME.

SO I ASKED HER, "WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN EA AND A



20TEACHER?"

AND SHE SAID, "A TEACHER, WELL, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE WRONG

WITH THEM, I GUESS. AND WHEN IT'S AN EA, YOU'RE JUST LIKE,

WHATEVER. THEY DON'T REALLY KNOW MORE THAN YOU DO. THEY'RE

JUST HERE HELPING YOU. BUT A TEACHER KNOWS EVERYTHING, AND YOU

DON'T WANT TO FEEL STUPID, EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW THAT THEY ARE

THERE TO HELP."

SO THE STUDENTS REALIZE THAT THE TEACHERS ARE THERE TO HELP

THEM, BUT THEY DO FEEL LIKE THERE IS SOMEWHAT OF A POWER

IMBALANCE, AND THEY DON'T FEEL NECESSARILY THAT COMFORT LEVEL

WITH THAT TEACHER.

SO SHE SAID SHE GOT A LITTLE MORE COMFORTABLE, KIND OF

HAVING THE EA AS A LITTLE BIT OF A BUFFER.

SARAH ALSO TALKED ABOUT HER EDUCATIONAL ASSISTANT AND HOW

SHE WENT TO HER FOR HELP. SHE SAID, "I HAVE AN EA, AND I GO TO

HER OFFICE, AND THEN MY EA CAN HELP ME WITH ENGLISH AND WRITING.

SO I LIKE THAT. I LIKE WORKING WITH THE EAs BECAUSE THEY HELP

ME A LOT AND I LEARN A LOT OF THINGS. I LIKE THE WAY THEY

EXPAND THINGS, AND I KEEP PASSING BECAUSE THE EAs HELP ME AND

EXPAND THINGS THAT I CAN'T REMEMBER ON MY OWN."

SO SHE'S GETTING THAT ADDITIONAL ONE-ON-ONE SUPPORT WITH

THAT EA, AND SHE FEELS A LOT BETTER BEING ABLE TO HAVE THAT

SUPPORT IN THE CLASSROOM.

AND THEN ON THE FLIP SIDE, I HAD TWO STUDENTS -- THREE

STUDENTS, SORRY, WHO UTILIZED A CLASSROOM INTERPRETER. I ASKED

BILLY WHAT IT WAS LIKE FOR HIM WORKING WITH AN INTERPRETER.

HE SAID, "I ACTUALLY GET TWO. THE FIRST INTERPRETER



21INTERPRETS WHAT THE TEACHER SAID, AND THE SECOND INTERPRETER IS

TAKING NOTES ABOUT WHAT IS BEING SAID AND TESTS AND THAT KIND OF

THING. AND THEN THE INTERPRETER TAKES THE NOTES AND THEY SWITCH

OFF, AND THE OTHER INTERPRETER CONTINUES TO TAKE THE NOTES."

AND I SAID, "WHAT IS THAT LIKE FOR YOU?"

HE SAID, "IT'S GOOD. I LIKE IT. I NEED THEM TO BE THERE OR

I WON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING THAT THE TEACHER SAID IN THE CLASS

OR SOMETIMES EVEN MY CLASSMATES."

KOHLI ALSO TALKED ABOUT HIS INTERPRETERS KIND OF GOING ABOVE

AND BEYOND IN THE CLASSROOM.

SO I ASKED HIM, "WHAT'S THE ROLE OF THE INTERPRETER IN YOUR

CLASSROOM."

HE SAID, "WELL, THEY'RE THERE FOR COMMUNICATION AND WRITING.

THEY'LL LOOK AT YOUR WRITING."

SO I SAID, "WELL, TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE

COMMUNICATION SIDE FIRST."

AND HE SAID, "WELL, SHE SIGNS THE WORDS THAT THE TEACHER IS

SAYING SO I CAN UNDERSTAND BETTER, AND SHE'S EVEN THERE WHEN I

HAVE BASKETBALL PRACTICE SO THAT I CAN LEARN THE PLAYS."

I SAID, "OKAY. NOW TELL ME A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE

WRITING."

AND SO HE SAID, "WHEN I ASK THEM, SOMETIMES THEY WILL LOOK

AT MY ENGLISH WRITING AND HELP ME TO FIX IT. SO WHEN I HAVE

GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES. SO IT CAN BE REALLY HELPFUL."

SO YOU CAN SEE THEY'RE REALLY GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND THEIR

ROLE.

AND WILDEN TALKED ABOUT REALLY HAVING TO KNOW YOUR



22INTERPRETER AND HAVING A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM AND HOW

THAT REALLY HELPED HER IN THE CLASSROOM.

"SO THE INTERPRETER, SHE'S A BETTER INTERPRETER THAN THE

OTHERS THAT I HAD BEFORE. BECAUSE I HAVE KNOWN HER FOR A LONG

TIME, IT'S EASIER TO UNDERSTAND HER. BEFORE WITH INTERPRETERS,

SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND THEM AND I'M NOT COMFORTABLE

WITH THEM, SO I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT."

SHE ALSO WENT ON TO EXPLAIN THAT FOR SOME INTERPRETERS THAT

SHE'S HAD, THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE OF SIGN LANGUAGE

AND SHE HAD -- SHE FELT THAT SHE DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE

BECAUSE SHE WOULD OFTEN REFER TO HER DICTIONARY A LOT.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT SHE GOT TO HAVE THAT COMMUNICATION

WITH HER, TO HAVE AN OPEN DIALOGUE WITH HER, TO BE ABLE TO

REALLY TALK ABOUT WHAT SHE NEEDED MORE IN THE CLASSROOM.

KOHLI SAID SIMILAR THINGS: "SOMETIMES WITH AN INTERPRETER,

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE SIGNING." MAYBE THEY WERE USING

THE WRONG SIGN OR A DIFFERENT SIGN THAN WHAT HE KNEW. "SO I

WOULD TELL THEM THAT, AND I WOULD TRY TO CORRECT THEIR SIGNS. I

THINK REALLY THEY CHOSE THE WRONG SIGN."

SO IT'S IMPORTANT TOO TO KNOW THAT THERE IS DIFFERENT

DIALECTS WHEN IT COMES TO SIGNING. AGAIN, IT IS REALLY

IMPORTANT FOR THE INTERPRETER AND THE STUDENT TO HAVE A GREAT

RELATIONSHIP SO THEY CAN HAVE THAT COMMUNICATION.

AND THEN WHEN IT CAME TO ASSISTIVE HEARING TECHNOLOGY, LIKE

I SAID, SOME STUDENTS HAD HEARING AIDS, SOME HAD COCHLEAR

IMPLANTS, AND MOST OF THEM UTILIZED AN FM SYSTEM IN THE

CLASSROOM.



23SO WHEN IT CAME TO HEARING AIDS, I HAD TWO STUDENTS WHO USED

HEARING AIDS. AND BILLY TALKED TO ME ABOUT HE LIKED BEING ABLE

TO USE HIS HEARING AIDS WHEN THEY WERE ACTUALLY WORKING.

SO HE SAID, "IN GRADE 10 AND 11, I DIDN'T HAVE MY HEARING

AIDS BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T WORKING. AND NOW IN THE SUMMER I

FINALLY GOT THEM FIXED, AND I CAN HEAR SOME NOW, AND I LIKE TO

HEAR."

SO I SAID, "WELL, WHAT TYPE OF THINGS DO YOU LIKE TO BE ABLE

TO HEAR?"

HE SAID, "I CAN HEAR SOUNDS. I CAN HEAR ALARMS, AND IN

GRADE 10 AND 11 I COULDN'T HEAR THE ALARMS. SO PEOPLE HAD TO

LET ME KNOW WHEN IT WAS TIME TO CHANGE CLASSES, SO THEY WOULD

TAP ME ON THE SHOULDER AND LET ME KNOW WHEN CLASS WAS DONE. SO

IT WAS HARD. IT'S JUST EASIER TO HEAR."

SO HE DIDN'T LIKE HAVING TO RELY ON OTHER PEOPLE WHEN IT

CAME TO HAVING TO KNOW WHEN TO SWITCH THE CLASSES.

WHEN IT CAME TO COCHLEAR IMPLANTS, I HAD SOME STUDENTS TALK

TO ME ABOUT HOW THEY FELT ABOUT THAT AS WELL. AND KOHLI WENT

FOR A SECOND IMPLANT NOT LONG AGO, SO I ASKED HIM HOW IT FELT.

HE SAID, "OH, IT FELT MORE LIKE THE SAME. THE ONE SIDE I

CAN HEAR MORE THAN THE OTHER SIDE. SO IN MY LEFT EAR I HEAR

LESS. SO IT'S GOOD. I CAN HEAR SOME, AND I LIKE IT. I CAN

HEAR WHEN THE TV IS ON, BUT I CAN'T REALLY HEAR WHAT THEY'RE

SAYING."

I SAID, "HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT BEING ABLE TO HEAR SOME

THINGS?"

HE SAID, "WELL, I CAN'T ALWAYS HEAR EVERYTHING. SOMETIMES



24IT'S SCRATCHY OR IT'S NOT CLEAR. IT KIND OF SOUNDS WET. SO

IT'S CONFUSING. IT'S NOT CLEAR. IT JUST HAPPENS ONCE IN

AWHILE. I THINK IT DOESN'T HELP BECAUSE MY HEARING LEVELS ARE

TOO LOW."

HE THOUGHT MAYBE HIS HEARING LEVELS CONTRIBUTED TO THAT. IT

COULD HAVE ALSO BEEN A MALFUNCTIONING COCHLEAR IMPLANT.

SARAH ALSO TALKED ABOUT HER USE OF HER COCHLEAR IMPLANTS,

AND SHE WAS REALLY NERVOUS ABOUT USING IT NEAR WATER. SHE SAID

HOW HER MOTHER SEEMED TO HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING REALLY OF

HOW THE COCHLEAR IMPLANT WORKED THAN SHE DID.

SHE SAID, "YEAH, SOMETIMES I GO TO THE AUDIOLOGIST TO FIX MY

VOLUME, AND THAT'S ANNOYING. I DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CIs,

AND MY MOM KNOWS EVERYTHING. BUT I KNOW HOW TO PUT IT TOGETHER.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING I KNOW. BUT MY MOM KNOWS HOW THE BRAIN

WORKS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT. BUT

I KNOW ABOUT THE VOLUMES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SOMETIMES I FORGOT TO TAKE IT OFF WHEN I GO INTO THE SHOWER, AND

THEN I'M SCARED TO GO IN THE WATER. AND I REMEMBER ONE TIME I

WENT TO WEST EDMONTON MALL AT THE WATERPARK. AND I LOOKED AT

IT, AND I THOUGHT, OH MY GOD, I'M SCARED WITH MY COCHLEAR

IMPLANT. BUT WHEN I TAKE IT OFF, THEN I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT

IT."

AND THEN WHEN IT CAME TO THE FM SYSTEMS, THERE WERE SOME

STUDENTS WHO REALLY LOVED UTILIZING THEIR FM SYSTEMS IN THE

CLASSROOM, AND SOME HAD SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS WITH THEM.

SO I ASKED MARK, "WHAT IS AN FM SYSTEM AND HOW DOES IT WORK

FOR YOU?"



25HE SAID, "IT'S A THING TO MAKE ME HEAR BETTER. LIKE, IF THE

CLASS IS SUPER LOUD AND THE TEACHER TALKS TO ME THROUGH THE FM,

THEN I CAN HEAR IT, AND THE NOISE DOESN'T REALLY BOTHER ME. AND

WHEN OTHERS SAY IT'S HARD TO HEAR, JUST TELL THEM TO TURN ON

THEIR FM SYSTEM, AND THEY WILL BE ABLE TO HEAR BETTER."

SARAH ALSO TALKED TO ME ABOUT HOW SHE FELT THE FM SYSTEM

HELPED HER TO CONCENTRATE IN THE CLASSROOM.

SO SHE SAID, "WHEN THE TEACHER'S WEARING AN FM, I'M REALLY

GOOD AT CLASSES. I CONCENTRATE, AND I CAN PUT MY HAND UP FOR

QUESTIONS, AND I MAKE SURE THAT I CAN PUT IT IN MY NOTES AND

STUDY AT HOME WITH MY TUTORS. AND IF OTHER STUDENTS ARE

TALKING, I REMEMBER THAT THE TEACHER ALWAYS REPEATS WHAT THE

STUDENTS ARE SAYING, SO I'M LIKE, OKAY. I GET IT. THE FM

SYSTEM HAS THREE BUTTONS, SO I ALWAYS PUT THE FIRST ONE, WHERE I

HEAR ONLY WHAT THE TEACHER IS SAYING.

AND I SAID, "WHY IS THAT?"

"BECAUSE I FEEL THE TEACHER'S ALWAYS JUST TALK A LOT, SO I

DON'T WANT TO MISS ANY OF IT. SO THAT'S WHY. I FEEL LIKE IT'S

ANNOYING BECAUSE LIKE I JUST WANT TO HEAR WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

I DON'T LIKE MISSING WHAT THE TEACHER'S SAYING. YEAH, I FEEL I

CONCENTRATE MORE IF I DON'T HAVE AN FM WITH ME AND I FORGOT IT

AT HOME, I FEEL LIKE I'M MISSING SOMETHING, YOU KNOW? I DON'T

LIKE THAT. I JUST LIKE WEARING MY FM."

CAITLYN, ON THE OTHER HAND, REALLY DIDN'T LIKE WEARING HER

FM SYSTEM, AND SHE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

SHE SAID, "I HAVE AN FM SYSTEM, AND I'VE USED IT SINCE I WAS

IN KINDERGARTEN, BUT I HAVE NEVER REALLY LIKED IT. THE ONE I



26HAVE NOW IS PROBABLY BETTER THAN THE ONES I HAVE HAD. LIKE,

WHEN I SWITCHED TO THIS NEW ONE FROM THE OTHER ONE, IT MADE A

HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE SOUND, BUT I AM NOT SURE IF THE OTHER ONE

WAS WORKING RIGHT. AND THIS ONE IS STILL GOOD EVEN THOUGH IT

LOOKS OLD-FASHIONED, BUT I STILL DON'T USE IT."

SO I SAID, "OKAY. WELL, YOU LIKE THIS ONE BETTER, BUT YOU

STILL DON'T USE IT?"

AND SHE SAID, "WELL, I ONLY HAVE MATH CLASS, AND I DON'T USE

IT IN MATH. I USED IT IN BIOLOGY BECAUSE I FELT THERE WAS A LOT

OF INFORMATION THAT I NEEDED TO LEARN, AND IT HELPED ME WITH

FOCUSSING ON THE INFORMATION BETTER. BUT I STILL DON'T REALLY

LIKE THE FM SYSTEM."

WILDEN ALSO FELT LIKE SHE HAD A TERRIBLE TIME WHEN IT CAME

TO THE FM SYSTEM. SHE FELT THAT IT REALLY DISTRACTED HER WHEN

IT CAME TO HAVING ALL THAT SOUND ALLOCATION IN THE CLASSROOM.

SHE SAID, "SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T WORK AND IT'S JUST TOO LOUD,

AND IT'S HARDER FOR ME TO FOCUS ON MY WORK. IT WAS TOO

DISTRACTING BECAUSE IF I TRIED TO FOCUS, I CAN'T REALLY WRITE

DOWN EVERYTHING, AND IT DOESN'T HELP GET THE LOUD NOISES OUT.

AND THEN THE INTERPRETER IS SIGNING AND I'M TRYING TO WRITE

THINGS DOWN FROM THE BOARD AND LISTENING AND WATCH AT THE SAME

TIME, SO IT WAS INCREDIBLY IRRITATING. I'M JUST GLAD THAT I

WON'T GO THROUGH THAT AGAIN. I'D RATHER CHUCK IT OUT THE WINDOW

THAN TOUCH IT AGAIN."

SO YOU CAN SEE THERE'S SOME STUDENTS WHO REALLY ENJOY USING

THEIR FM SYSTEM, AND THEN THERE ARE SOME STUDENTS WHO HAVE A

REALLY FRUSTRATING TIME WITH IT, SO THEY JUST ABSOLUTELY REFUSE.



27AND THEN IT COMES TO IMPROVING CURRICULUM ACCESS.

SO AGAIN, THERE ARE FOUR THEMES. I AM JUST GOING TO FOCUS

ON THE TWO, LEARNING PREFERENCES AND HAVING A SUPPORTIVE

RELATIONSHIP.

SO WHEN IT CAME TO LEARNING PREFERENCES, STUDENTS TALKED

ABOUT A VARIETY OF THINGS. SO BEING ABLE TO HAVE A HANDS-ON

APPROACH OR A VARIETY OF LEARNING APPROACHES IN THE CLASSROOM,

UTILIZING VISUAL REINFORCEMENT AND DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY SUPPORTS.

SO REALLY THIS IS WHEN STUDENTS WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW THINGS

COULD CHANGE FOR THEM IN THE CLASSROOM.

SO CAITLYN SAID, "SOME TEACHERS LIKE ESSAYS MORE THAN

HANDS-ON PROJECTS, AND I THINK THEY SHOULD GIVE US AN OPTION,

BUT THEY DON'T. LIKE MY MATH TEACHER. HER TEACHING STYLE IS

NOT GREAT. LIKE, SHE TEACHES IT, AND SHE JUST EXPECTS YOU TO

KNOW IT, AND THAT'S IT. IT'S ONE STYLE AND THAT'S IT. IT CAN

BE REALLY FRUSTRATING SOMETIMES."

SO SHE REALLY TALKED ABOUT LIKING A HANDS-ON APPROACH, AND

SOMETIMES IN MATH IT CAN BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO DO THAT, UTILIZE

A HANDS-ON APPROACH, BUT SHE REALLY SEEMED TO NEED THAT MORE TO

HELP SOLIDIFY THAT INFORMATION.

SARAH ALSO TALKED ABOUT WANTING TO USE TECHNOLOGY IN THE

CLASSROOM, AND SHE TALKED ABOUT A TIME WHERE THERE WAS iPADS IN

THE CLASSROOM. SHE WAS ABLE TO USE THAT FOR A YEAR, AND THEN

THE NEXT YEAR THEY WERE TAKEN AWAY.

SO SHE SAID, "I REMEMBER IN GRADE 9, WE USED IPADS, AND WE

DOWNLOADED AN APP WITH FLASHCARDS ESPECIALLY FOR SCIENCE AND

SOCIAL. SO WE PUT A DEFINITION ON THEM AND THE PICTURE, AND



28THEN YOU TAP IT AND THEN YOU MEMORIZE IT. SO THAT HELPED ME

TOO. BUT IN GRADE 10, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE STOPPED USING IT. WE

WENT BACK TO WRITING OUR NOTES AND THEN REMEMBERING. IT'S THE

SAME THING, I GUESS, BUT I ENJOYED THE IPAD BETTER BECAUSE IT'S

EASIER FOR ME. I REALLY LIKE DIGITAL BETTER."

SO SHE LIKED HAVING SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE THAN JUST THE

PEN AND PAPER IN THE CLASSROOM AS WELL.

AND I ASKED BILLY, "WHAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WISH YOU COULD

TELL YOUR TEACHERS?"

AND HE SAID, "I WISH I COULD TELL MY TEACHERS THAT I LEARN

BEST WHEN I CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE INFORMATION."

I SAID, "TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT."

AND HE SAID, "I LEARN BEST WITH CAPTIONS, WITH NOTES, AND

WHEN TEACHERS WRITE THINGS ON THE BOARD."

SO I SAID, "WHAT IS IT ABOUT THESE THINGS THAT YOU REALLY

ENJOY AND THAT REALLY HELP YOU?"

HE SAID, "THAT WAY I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE TEACHER WANTS ME

TO DO AND THEN I WON'T FORGET THEM."

SO IT HELPED HIM TO REINFORCE WHAT HE WAS LEARNING. IT

HELPED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TEACHER WANTED FROM HIM, AND IT

HELPED HIM TO REMEMBER WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO.

WILDEN TALKED ABOUT VISUAL SUPPORTS A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.

SHE LIKED THAT TEACHERS USED VISUAL SUPPORTS ON THE BOARD, BUT

SHE OFTEN FOUND HERSELF GETTING LOST. SO SHE WANTED THE TEACHER

TO POINT EXACTLY WHERE SHE WAS WHEN SHE WAS REFERRING TO THE

MESSAGE THAT WAS ON THE BOARD.

SO SHE SAID, "IF THE TEACHER POINTS AT THINGS THAT THE



29TEACHER IS DOING SO I WILL KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT

BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY WRITTEN DOWN ON

THE BOARD, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT FURTHER, AND THE STUDENT

WOULDN'T KNOW WHICH ONE NECESSARILY THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT."

SO AGAIN REFERRING TO EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SPEAKING ABOUT ON

THE BOARD IF YOU HAVE EVERYTHING ALREADY WRITTEN OUT.

AND SARAH ALSO TALKED ABOUT VISUAL REINFORCEMENT.

"SO I PREFER WHEN IT'S ON THE BOARD WHILE THE TEACHER IS

EXPLAINING IT. THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT I LIKE. MY MATH

TEACHER DOES THAT, AND SHE KEEPS GIVING ME HER NOTES AND HER

QUESTIONS, AND THEN SHE WRITES IT ON THE BOARD SO THAT I CAN

WRITE IT DOWN IN MY OWN WORDS. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I LIKE.

HAVING IT ON THE PAPER AND THEN HAVING IT ON THE BOARD AND THEN

THE TEACHER EXPLAINING IT TO THE WHOLE CLASS."

SO SHE HAD DIFFERENT WAYS OF ACCESSING THE INFORMATION AT

THAT POINT, WHICH SHE FELT REALLY SUPPORTED HER.

AND THEN STUDENTS TALKED ABOUT HAVING A SUPPORTIVE

RELATIONSHIP, WHETHER THAT WAS WITH PARENTS OR WHETHER THAT WAS

WITH THE TEACHERS THEMSELVES. AND THEN THEY TALKED ABOUT REALLY

WHAT THEIR PERCEPTION OF SUPPORTIVE VERSUS NOT SUPPORTIVE WAS.

SO SARAH TALKED ABOUT WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A GREAT

RELATIONSHIP.

SHE SAID, "I DON'T LIKE HAVING A BAD RELATIONSHIP WITH MY

TEACHERS BECAUSE I WANT TO HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM SO

THEY CAN HELP ME AND I CAN PASS MY MARKS. THEY HELP ME IN CLASS

AND STUFF, AND I REALLY FEEL LIKE I CAN'T ASK FOR HELP IF WE

HAVE A BAD RELATIONSHIP."



30SO I ASKED MARK, "WAS THERE EVER A TIME WHEN MAYBE A TEACHER

MADE SCHOOL NOT ENJOYABLE FOR YOU?"

AND HE SAID, "YEAH. THEY GET MAD AT ME A LITTLE BIT."

SO I SAID, "TELL ME ABOUT A TIME THAT THAT HAPPENED FOR

YOU."

HE SAID, "ONE TIME IN GRADE 5 I SAID A QUESTION WRONG, AND

THEN THEY SAID IT WAS WRONG AND I NEEDED TO DO IT AGAIN. THE

TEACHER WASN'T NICE. SHE DIDN'T HELP ME TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

CORRECTLY, SO IT JUST KEPT REPEATING AND REPEATING, AND I WOULD

GET FRUSTRATED."

SO HE REALLY TALKED ABOUT NEEDING THAT SUPPORTIVE

RELATIONSHIP IN THE CLASSROOM.

KOHLI ALSO TALKED ABOUT THIS FURTHER, AND HE TALKED ABOUT A

TIME WHEN A TEACHER JUST COMPLETELY IGNORED HIM IN THE

CLASSROOM, AND HE WANTED TO PERSEVERE AND SHOW THAT TEACHER THAT

HE COULD DO IT.

SO HE SAID, "I GUESS IF I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SUPPOSED

TO BE DOING, I'M SUPPOSED TO ASK THE TEACHER AND THEY'RE

SUPPOSED TO HELP ME UNDERSTAND AND THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO TEACH ME.

BUT SOMETIMES WHEN I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, IT COULD BE BECAUSE I

DIDN'T LIKE THE TEACHER."

I SAID, "WELL, WHAT DIDN'T YOU LIKE?"

HE SAID, "THEY JUST IGNORED ME. YOU KNOW, I HAD TO DO IT

ALL ON MY OWN. I HAD TO BE PATIENT THROUGH IT AND DO IT MYSELF.

IT MADE ME FEEL THAT THEY THINK I CAN'T DO IT, BUT I DID IT."

SO THROUGHOUT THIS, THE STUDENTS REALLY TALKED ABOUT

BARRIERS WHEN IT CAME TO THEIR EDUCATION. SOMETIMES THEY TALKED



31ABOUT SUCCESSES THAT THEY HAD IN THE CLASSROOM, AND SOMETIMES

THEY TALKED ABOUT BARRIERS THAT WERE REALLY IMPEDING THEIR

LEARNING IN THE CLASSROOM.

SO I THINK IN ORDER TO COMBAT THESE LEARNING BARRIERS THERE

IS A LOT THAT WE CAN DO, AND FOCUSSING ON THE FRAMEWORK OF

UNIVERSAL DESIGN FOR LEARNING CAN BE A BIG FACTOR IN IMPROVING

ACCESS FOR STUDENTS AND IMPROVING THEIR OUTCOMES.

SO WHEN I AM TALKING ABOUT UNIVERSAL DESIGN FOR LEARNING, I

AM TALKING ABOUT A FRAMEWORK THAT ADDRESSES POTENTIAL BARRIERS

TO LEARNING IN THE CURRICULUM OR CLASSROOM AND TO REDUCE

BARRIERS THROUGH INITIAL DESIGN. SO THINKING ABOUT PROBLEMS

THAT OCCUR AHEAD OF TIME AND BEING FLEXIBLE IN THE CLASSROOM

WITH THE CURRICULUM AND THE WAY THAT STUDENTS ARE ABLE TO

EXPRESS THEIR LEARNING.

SO WHEN IT COMES TO UNIVERSAL DESIGN FOR LEARNING, THERE ARE

THREE ESSENTIAL PRINCIPLES. SO THEY TALK ABOUT MULTIPLE MEANS

OF REPRESENTATION, MULTIPLE MEANS OF ENGAGEMENT, AND MULTIPLE

MEANS OF ACTION AND EXPRESSION.

WHEN IT COMES TO MULTIPLE MEANS OF REPRESENTATION, THIS IS

WHAT THE TEACHER IS ACTUALLY TEACHING IN THE CLASSROOM. THIS IS

THE CURRICULUM. THIS IS HOW YOU'RE ACTUALLY PRESENTING THE

INFORMATION TO YOUR STUDENTS.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF THE PARTICIPANTS WERE TALKING ABOUT

THEY NEEDED VARIABILITY. SOME WANTED IT ON THE BOARD. SOME

WERE OKAY WITH HAVING THE MESSAGES BEING VERBALLY DELIVERED.

SOME WANTED MORE KINESTHETIC, HANDS-ON APPROACHES.

SO HAVING THAT VARIABILITY AND THAT FLEXIBILITY IN HOW



32YOU'RE DELIVERING THE CURRICULUM IS KEY.

MULTIPLE MEANS OF ENGAGEMENT. SO HAVING STUDENTS ENGAGED IN

YOUR CLASSROOM. HOW CAN WE DO THAT? LINK IT TO THEIR

INTERESTS. LINK IT TO WHAT IS GOING ON CURRENTLY OUT IN THE

WORLD, AND THEN YOU WILL HAVE STUDENTS MORE ENGAGED AND

THEREFORE MORE WILLING TO LEARN AND READY TO LEARN IN YOUR

CLASSROOM.

AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO MULTIPLE MEANS OF ACTION AND

EXPRESSION, THIS IS ON THE FLIP SIDE. SO IT IS NOT TEACHERS

DELIVERING THE CURRICULUM. IT IS HOW THE STUDENTS ARE SHOWING

YOU THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE CURRICULUM THEMSELVES. SO GIVING

FLEXIBILITY IN HOW STUDENTS CAN ACTUALLY SHOW YOU THAT THEY'RE

LEARNING. DO THEY REALLY NEED TO JUST WRITE AN ESSAY, OR COULD

THEY DELIVER IT IN A PODCAST? COULD THEY DO IT IN A PLAY?

COULD THEY WRITE A POEM? HOW DOES THAT INFORMATION ACTUALLY

NEED TO BE DISPLAYED TO YOU IN ORDER TO SHOW THAT THEY

UNDERSTAND IT. GIVE THEM OPTIONS. GIVE THEM A WAY TO CHOOSE

HOW THEY WOULD LIKE TO DELIVER THAT INFORMATION TO YOU. HOW CAN

THEY SHOW YOU THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE CURRICULUM AND UNDERSTAND

WHAT YOU'RE TEACHING.

SO MOVING FORWARD, I'M GOING TO TALK -- I'M KIND OF WRAPPING

IT UP HERE, SO I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN DO AS

PARENTS, AS EDUCATORS, AS COMMUNITY MEMBERS. AND I AM GOING TO

FRAME IT IN THIS WAY.

SO THERE IS AN INCLUSIVE EDUCATOR NAMED SHELLEY MOORE IN

B.C., AND SHE USES POSITIVE BEHAVIOURAL SUPPORTS TO REALLY TALK

ABOUT THE POWER AND THE PURPOSE THAT STUDENTS HAVE IN THE



33CLASSROOM. AND THERE IS THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PURPOSES THAT

STUDENTS CAN HAVE. SO THAT'S PERSONAL, SOCIAL, AND

INTELLECTUAL.

SO PERSONAL WOULD BE THEIR PERSONAL AWARENESS OF WHAT'S

GOING ON AND THEIR PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, THEIR IDENTITY, AND

THEIR CULTURE THAT THEY RELATE WITH. SO WHERE DOES THAT PURPOSE

COME INTO THAT CLASSROOM?

THE SOCIAL PURPOSE IS COMMUNICATION, HOW THEY COMMUNICATE IN

THE CLASSROOM, WHAT'S EXPECTED OF THEM, AND THEIR SOCIAL

RESPONSIBILITY.

AND THEN THERE IS THE INTELLECTUAL SIDE, WHICH IS REALLY

WHERE COMES THAT CREATIVE THINKING AND CRITICAL THINKING

ASPECTS.

SO I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT THOSE AREAS OF PURPOSE AND THEN

AGAIN ADDRESS THE MULTIPLE MEANS OF REPRESENTATION, EXPRESSION,

AND ENGAGEMENT.

SO I'M GOING TO FOCUS ON THE THREE SUBTHEMES THAT I TALKED

ABOUT PREVIOUSLY.

SO FATIGUE. REALLY WHEN IT COMES TO FATIGUE, WE'RE TALKING

MORE ABOUT THE STUDENT'S PERSONAL PURPOSE AND THEIR INTELLECTUAL

PURPOSE. SO WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO? WHAT CAN THE

STUDENT DO? THIS IS THEIR PERSONAL MEANS, THEIR PERSONAL

RESPONSIBILITY IN THE CLASSROOM.

WELL, THEY NEED TO BE AWARE OF THEIR FATIGUE SYMPTOMS. WHEN

THEY ARE STARTING TO FEEL FATIGUED, WHAT ARE THEY FEELING? WHAT

IS IT THAT'S MAKING THEM FATIGUED? THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO

FIGURE THIS OUT FOR THEMSELVES AND THEN RELAY THIS BACK TO THE



34PARENTS, TO CLASSROOM TEACHERS, AND ADMINISTRATORS. BECAUSE AS

SOON AS THEY CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT'S REALLY MAKING THEM FATIGUED

AND WHAT'S THE SOURCES OF WHERE THAT CAN BE COMING FROM, THEN IT

CAN BE ALLEVIATED IN THE CLASSROOM.

SO THEN ON THE FLIP SIDE, WHAT CAN YOU DO AS EDUCATORS AND

PARENTS? SUPPORT STUDENTS WITH THAT SELF-ADVOCACY. HAVE THEM

COME TO YOU AND TELL YOU THIS IS WHAT'S REALLY MAKING ME FEEL

FATIGUED, AND THEN YOU CAN HELP THEM TO CREATE SUPPORTS IN THE

CLASSROOM. HOW CAN WE MITIGATE THIS IN THE CLASSROOM? WHAT CAN

I DO TO HELP YOU NOT FEEL FATIGUED?

AND PROVIDING BREAKS TO STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE DAY, NOT

JUST -- NOT JUST BRAIN BREAKS WHERE EVERYBODY CAN JUST KIND OF

STOP AND STOP THEIR LEARNING PROCESSES FOR A SECOND, BUT ALSO

HEARING BREAKS THROUGHOUT THE DAY. IF STUDENTS ARE UTILIZING

AMPLIFICATION, THEY'RE TAKING IN A LOT OF SOUND. SOMETIMES

THAT'S REALLY OVERWHELMING FOR STUDENTS. SO MAKING SURE YOUR

ENTIRE CLASSROOM IS TAKING A HEARING BREAK. SO HAVE SOME SILENT

ACTIVITIES GOING ON IN THE CLASSROOM SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN BE

PROCESSING THEMSELVES AND BE GIVING THEIR DIFFERENT SENSORY

NEEDS A LITTLE BIT OF A BREAK.

AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO CLASSROOM SUPPORTS, SO THE SOCIAL

PURPOSE AND THE INTELLECTUAL PURPOSE. SO WHAT CAN YOU DO TO

ENSURE THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTED IN THE CLASSROOM?

THROUGH MULTIPLE MEANS OF ENGAGEMENT, KEEPING THOSE STUDENTS

ENGAGED. MAKING SURE THAT ALL STUDENTS ARE INVOLVED IN ALL

ASPECTS OF SCHOOL LIFE. SO NOT JUST IN THE CLASSROOM, BUT THOSE

TRANSITIONS THAT HAPPEN IN BETWEEN CLASSES. ASSEMBLIES. EVEN



35REACHING OUT TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT

HAPPEN THROUGHOUT THERE. MAKING SURE EVERYBODY IS ENGAGED AND

INVOLVED WHEN IT COMES TO THAT -- AND MEANINGFULLY INVOLVED AS

WELL.

FOR INTELLECTUAL, MULTIPLE MEANS OF REPRESENTATION.

COLLABORATING WITH PARENTS AND THE STUDENTS THEMSELVES TO

ACTUALLY SEE WHAT THEY NEED WHEN IT COMES TO INSTRUCTION AND IF

THEY HAVE DIFFERENT CULTURAL NEEDS. WHEN IT COMES TO THE DEAF

COMMUNITY, THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT CULTURAL NEEDS AND IDEAS

THAT IN MAINSTREAM CLASSROOMS TEACHERS MIGHT NOT KNOW ABOUT.

AND SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO COLLABORATE WITH THOSE STUDENTS

AND PARENTS TO FIND OUT WHAT SOME OF THESE CULTURAL NEEDS MIGHT

BE.

WHEN IT COMES TO ACTION AND EXPRESSION, AGAIN PROVIDING

OPPORTUNITY FOR STUDENTS TO BE ABLE TO SELF-ADVOCATE FOR THE

VARYING WAYS THAT THEY CAN SHOW THEIR UNDERSTANDING. SO IF

STUDENTS REALLY LIKE BEING ABLE TO USE THAT DIGITAL OUTPUT, THEN

THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE THE MEANS TO REALLY ADVOCATE FOR

THEMSELVES AND SAY THIS IS WHAT I NEED, AND HOPEFULLY THAT'S

WHAT PARENTS AND TEACHERS WOULD BE HELPING -- WOULD BE

SUPPORTING THEM TO ADVOCATE FOR.

AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO THE CURRICULUM ACCESS. SO ALL

THREE OF THE PERSONAL AND SOCIAL AND INTELLECTUAL PURPOSES ARE

ADDRESSED HERE.

SO HAVING OPEN DIALOGUE ABOUT THE STUDENT'S INDIVIDUAL

STRENGTHS AND NEEDS. I TALKED ABOUT HOW IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT

TO LOOK AT THE INDIVIDUAL CHILD, WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO GET



36THEIR INDIVIDUAL STORIES AND WHAT REALLY WORKS FOR THEM. SO

BEING ABLE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE STUDENT ABOUT WHAT

HELPS THEM IN THE CLASSROOM IS ESSENTIAL.

ALSO PROVIDING ACCESS FOR STUDENTS TO MEANINGFULLY INTERACT

WITH THEIR PEERS AND THEIR EDUCATORS. I SAY MEANINGFULLY

BECAUSE SOME OF MY PARTICIPANTS WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW YES, THEY

HAD FRIENDS THAT THEY WOULD SAY HELLO TO IN THE HALLWAY, BUT

SOMETIMES THEY DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THERE WAS REALLY THAT MEANINGFUL

CONNECTION. THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY FEEL LIKE THEY WERE ABLE TO

COMMUNICATE WITH THEM MORE THAN A SURFACE-LEVEL CONVERSATION.

SO PROVIDING OPPORTUNITIES IN THE CLASSROOM, AT HOME, IN THE

COMMUNITY FOR STUDENTS TO REALLY MEANINGFULLY BE ABLE TO

INTERACT WITH OTHERS.

AND THEN HAVING OPEN WRITING AND DIALOGUE ABOUT BEST

PRACTICES THROUGHOUT THE SCHOOL YEAR. SO FOR SOME STUDENTS YOU

COULD BE DOING A GREAT JOB AND SUPPORTS REALLY WORK WELL FOR

THEM, BUT THEN THEY NEED TO MOVE PAST THAT AND THEY NEED OTHER

SUPPORTS THROUGHOUT THE SCHOOL YEAR. SO MAKING SURE THAT YOU

ARE CHECKING BACK IN TO REALLY UNDERSTAND IF THEY NEED SOMETHING

DIFFERENT AND IF THEY NEED SOMETHING MORE TO REALLY SUPPORT

THEIR UNDERSTANDING AND LEARNING.

AND THEN AGAIN PROVIDING OPPORTUNITY, LIKE I SAID EARLIER,

FOR STUDENTS TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT THEIR UNDERSTANDING IN

MULTIPLE WAYS.

SO WHAT DID I LEARN THROUGH ALL OF THIS RESEARCH THAT I DID

WITH TALKING TO THESE STUDENTS? THAT ALL STUDENTS ARE

INDIVIDUALS AND THEY REALLY NEED TO BE TREATED AS SUCH.



37THERE IS THAT AGE-OLD ADAGE THAT WE HAVE ALL HEARD: WHEN

YOU HAVE MET ONE DEAF KID, YOU HAVE ONLY MET ONE DEAF KID. WHAT

WORKS FOR ONE STUDENT WILL JUST WORK FOR THAT ONE STUDENT. IT

DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN IT'S GOING TO WORK FOR EVERYONE. SO

KEEPING IN MIND THAT THEY ARE INDIVIDUALS. INDIVIDUALS ARE SO

IMPORTANT, AND IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT SOMEONE

NEEDS.

FATIGUE. THIS IS A REAL ISSUE WHEN IT COMES -- ESPECIALLY

FOR STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING. THIS IS SOMETHING

THAT'S REALLY UNDER-RESEARCHED AND IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE

ADDRESSED.

AND USING QUALITATIVE METHODS, WHICH I SAID KIND OF RELATES

BACK TO THE INDIVIDUAL. SITTING DOWN AND ACTUALLY SPEAKING WITH

STUDENTS AND FINDING OUT WHAT THEY NEED INSTEAD OF TEACHERS JUST

BEING THE ONES TO SAY OH, YEAH, THIS IS WHAT WORKS WELL FOR MY

STUDENTS. WELL, HOW DO YOU KNOW? ASK THEM. ASK THEM

YOURSELVES. PARENTS DON'T NECESSARILY ALWAYS KNOW EITHER, SO

KEEP THOSE STUDENTS IN CURRENT DIALOGUE.

SO AGAIN, CONCLUSIONS. THERE IS REAL NEED FOR RESEARCH IN

THE AREA OF FATIGUE. I AM HOPING TO CONTINUE ON WITH THIS, THE

IDEA OF FATIGUE AND REALLY WILL BE SPEAKING TO STUDENTS A LOT

MORE ABOUT WHAT CAN BE DONE TO REALLY ADDRESS THEIR NEEDS IN THE

CLASSROOM.

AND AGAIN, FOCUSSING ON THE STUDENT PERSPECTIVE. I CAN'T

SAY ENOUGH ABOUT HOW ESSENTIAL IT IS TO REALLY INCORPORATE

STUDENTS INTO DISCUSSION SO THAT AGAIN WE ARE MOVING AWAY FROM

THAT IDEA OF ONE-WAY EDUCATION AND TOO A MORE HOLISTIC



38UNDERSTANDING OF EDUCATION.

SO TO CONCLUDE, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO TALK ABOUT -- I WOULD

REALLY LIKE TO CONCLUDE WITH A QUOTE FROM SHELLEY MOORE, THE

INCLUSIVE EDUCATOR THAT I HAD SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER FROM B.C.

SHE SAID, "INCLUSION IS NOT ABOUT INTEGRATING STUDENTS BY

HOUSING THEM INTO OR OUT OF FORCED CONTAINERS OF CLASSROOMS AND

SCHOOLS. INCLUSIVE EDUCATION IS ABOUT PROVIDING OPPORTUNITIES

WITH SUPPORTS FOR ALL STUDENTS TO HAVE ACCESS TO AND CONTRIBUTE

TO AN EDUCATION RICH IN CONTENT AND EXPERIENCE WITH THEIR

PEERS."

SO REALLY, WHAT I THINK IS WE NEED TO STOP FOCUSSING ON

WHERE STUDENTS ARE BEING EDUCATED AND FOCUS ON WHAT THE BEST

SUPPORTS ARE FOR THEM TO SUPPORT THEIR LEARNING AND TO SUPPORT

THEIR UNDERSTANDING IN CLASSROOMS.

AND REALLY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS WE NEED TO START

TALKING TO THE STUDENTS. WE NEED TO INCLUDE THAT IN OUR

CONVERSATIONS.

THANK YOU.

(Applause)

>> Dr. McQuarrie: THANK YOU, NATALIA.

IT'S MY DISTINCT PLEASURE NOW TO WELCOME LINDA CUNDY,

EDUCATION CONSULTANT WITH EDMONTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND CURRENT

RESEARCH ASSOCIATE WITH THE WESTERN CANADIAN CENTRE FOR DEAF

STUDIES HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ALBERTA, TO RESPOND TO THE

LECTURE AND TO OPEN UP OUR QUESTION PERIOD.

>> Ms. Cundy: OKAY. THANK YOU.

I AM JUST WAITING FOR NATALIA.



39SO LET ME FIRST EXTEND MY CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR SUCCESSFUL

COMPLETION OF YOUR DOCTORAL DEGREE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, DR. NATALIA, FOR A VERY MUCH IMPORTANT

STUDY. YOU HAVE EXPERTLY ADDRESSED THE QUESTION ABOUT

DETERMINING APPROPRIATENESS OF SUPPORT SERVICES, AND WHO DOES

THAT IF IT'S NOT THROUGH THE VOICE OF DEAF AND HARD OF HEARING

STUDENTS ALONE.

IF WE AREN'T INFORMED ALREADY THAT STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR

HARD OF HEARING EXPERIENCE FATIGUE, ISOLATION, AND LIMITED

ACCESS AND WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT, COULD WE THEN SAY

THAT IT'S EITHER INTENTIONAL OR UNINTENTIONAL IGNORANCE IN

PRACTICE?

I THINK WE HAVE ALL BEEN AWARE OF INCLUSIVE EDUCATION AND

THE PHILOSOPHY, AS YOU HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED, WITH THE NOTION

THAT ALL STUDENTS' LEARNING NEEDS ARE BEING MET, WHERE STUDENTS

FEEL WELCOMED AND VALUED.

BUT IT APPEARS IN YOUR RESEARCH THAT THE STUDY SHOWS THE

MISSING YET INTEGRAL PART, AND THAT'S THE VOICE OF THE STUDENTS,

THE STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING IN THOSE CLASSROOM

SETTINGS.

I THINK LIKE MANY OTHER SITUATIONS IN LIFE, WE HAVE

OUTLIERS. WE HAVE OUTLIERS ON BOTH EXTREME ENDS OF THE

SPECTRUM. AND IN DEAF EDUCATION, WE HAVE THOSE DEAF OR HARD OF

HEARING STUDENTS WHO ARE VERY SUCCESSFUL IN BILINGUAL

PROGRAMMING, ASL AND ENGLISH PROGRAMMING. WE ALSO HAVE DEAF OR

HARD OF HEARING STUDENTS WHO ARE VERY SUCCESSFUL IN AN ORAL

PROGRAM. THOSE WOULD BE OUR STUDENTS WHO ARE THE OUTLIERS IN



40THAT SPECTRUM, AND YOU HAVE ADDRESSED THAT SITUATION, AND YOU

HAVE FOCUSSED ON THE SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF STUDENTS WHO ARE IN

THE MIDDLE, WHO STRUGGLE ACADEMICALLY, WHO STRUGGLE IN SOCIAL

ENVIRONMENTS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT.

THAT'S NOT NEW FOR US, BUT YOU HAVE EXPERTLY EXPLAINED THAT

INFORMATION TO US TONIGHT. YOU HIGHLIGHTED THE ISSUE FOR US YET

AGAIN.

AND I THINK WE WOULD ALL APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO

CONTINUE THIS DIALOGUE, FIND VARIOUS WAYS AND MEANS OF

INCORPORATING THE DEAF VOICE FOR DEAF EDUCATION. IT'S SO

CRUCIAL.

IN THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, WE ARE CONTINUOUSLY TRYING TO

ADDRESS ALL OF THE STUDENTS' LEARNING NEEDS THE BEST WAY WE KNOW

HOW, YET WE STILL STRUGGLE WITH HOW TO CURB SOCIAL ISOLATION.

WE APPLAUD YOU FOR ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF FATIGUE HERE WITH

US TONIGHT WITHIN THE CLASSROOM SETTING, AND WE KNOW THAT MOST

STUDENTS EXPERIENCE FATIGUE FOR VARIOUS REASONS. HOWEVER, YOU

HAVE HIGHLIGHTED THE INCREASED FATIGUE FOR STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF

OR HARD OF HEARING.

AND EVEN IF WE COULD LESSEN THAT EXPERIENCE OF FATIGUE, THIS

ALONE DOES NOT EVEN BEGIN TO ADDRESS HOW DEAF AND HARD OF

HEARING STUDENTS FEEL THOSE ISSUES OF SOCIAL ISOLATION.

WHEN IT COMES TO ENSURING THAT DEAF AND HARD OF HEARING

STUDENTS FEEL THEY'RE WELCOMED, WHO ARE THEIR FRIENDS, WE DON'T

CHOOSE THAT. WE CAN'T SAY, OH, THIS IS NOW YOUR BOYFRIEND. OR

HERE, THIS IS YOUR GIRLFRIEND NOW.

I THINK I'M GOING TO OPEN THE FLOOR FOR QUESTIONS TO COME



41IN, AND WHO WOULD LIKE TO POSE THAT FIRST QUESTION WOULD BE ME

FOR DR. NATALIA.

SO HOW WOULD YOU WEIGH IN WITH RESPECT TO UNINTENTIONAL OR

INTENTIONAL ISOLATION AS IT RELATES TO THAT FATIGUE FACTOR?

I THINK MY QUESTION IS IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE OTHER THEMES

IN YOUR STUDY, SUCH AS IDENTITY, DEVELOPMENT, SOCIAL ISOLATION,

DO THOSE CONTRIBUTE TO FATIGUE?

>> Dr. Rohatyn-Martin: ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY.

SO AS LINDA ADDRESSED, I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO FATIGUE AND

INDIVIDUALS, IT REALLY IS INDIVIDUALIZED AS TO WHAT IS ACTUALLY

FATIGUING THAT PERSON. SOME PEOPLE HANDLE STRESS A LOT

DIFFERENTLY, SO THEY MAY BE MORE FATIGUED BY THE AMOUNT OF

STRESS ON THEM.

I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO SOCIAL ISOLATION, WHETHER IT'S

INTENTIONAL OR UNINTENTIONAL -- I WOULD HOPE THAT IT IS

UNINTENTIONAL WHEN IT COMES FROM EDUCATORS OR PEERS. BUT I DO

THINK THAT SOCIALLY, STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING,

IF THEY'RE WANTING TO CONVERSE WITH SOMEONE WHO POTENTIALLY

DOESN'T COMMUNICATE IN THE SAME WAY AS THEM, SO THEY'RE -- SO IF

THEIR MAIN LANGUAGE, THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE IS AMERICAN SIGN

LANGUAGE AND THEY'RE CONVERSING WITH SOMEONE WHO TYPICALLY

SPEAKS SPOKEN ENGLISH, THEN THEY MIGHT HAVE -- OVER TIME THAT

MIGHT LEAD TO SOCIAL ISOLATION, AND THOSE STUDENTS WHO ARE

REALLY TRYING TO FOCUS ON WHAT THAT PERSON IS SAYING COULD LEAD

TO FATIGUE. SO REALLY FOCUSSING ON THAT IDEA OF SPEECH READING

OR TRYING TO FOCUS ON MAYBE IF THERE'S AN INTERPRETER THERE,

WHAT THE INTERPRETER IS SAYING TO TRY TO GET THAT COMMUNICATION



42FACILITATED.

SO I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS

THAT -- AND REASONS ABOUT WHY FATIGUE COULD BE POSSIBLE FOR A

LOT OF PEOPLE, AS I SAID EARLIER, BUT DEFINITELY I THINK SOCIAL

ISOLATION AND THE WAYS IN WHICH THEY INTERACT CAN DEFINITELY BE

ONE OF THOSE FACTORS. FOR SURE.

>> Ms. Cundy: WONDERFUL. THANK YOU SO MUCH, NATALIA.

I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN THE FLOOR NOW FOR ANYBODY ELSE TO COME

FORWARD WITH QUESTIONS. IT CAN BE INTERPRETED OR YOU CAN COME

UP AND GRAB A MICROPHONE AND ASK YOUR OWN QUESTION FOR

DR. NATALIA, OUR VERY OWN.

ANYONE IS WELCOME.

THERE MAY BE SOME QUESTIONS WHO ARE WATCHING ONLINE, AND IF

YOU HAVE THOSE QUESTIONS, YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO PUT THEM

INTO THE CHAT BOX, AND THEY WILL BE READ ALOUD FOR YOU.

>> I KNOW SOME SIGN, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER -- I WAS JUST

CURIOUS. I HOPE MY QUESTION ISN'T TOO IGNORANT, BUT I WAS

CURIOUS. YOU MENTIONED THAT YOUR BROTHER DECIDED TO GO TO A

MAINSTREAM SCHOOL.

>> SORRY. CAN YOU JUST PICK ONE LANGUAGE?

>> EITHER YOU CAN SIGN OR SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE. WE HAVE AN

INTERPRETER HERE FOR US.

>> SORRY. I WAS WONDERING. YOUR BROTHER DECIDED TO GO TO A

MAINSTREAM SCHOOL. I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHY HE WOULD MAKE THAT

CHOICE. LIKE, I THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN EASIER TO GO TO A DEAF

SCHOOL. I HOPE THAT QUESTION ISN'T TOO PERSONAL AT ALL.

>> CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?



43>> OH.

>> JUST FOR AUDIO.

>> Dr. Rohatyn-Martin: DO YOU WANT ME TO REPEAT THE QUESTION?

SO THE QUESTION WAS WHY WOULD MY BROTHER DECIDE TO GO TO

HIGH SCHOOL, A MAINSTREAM SCHOOL, RATHER THAN GOING TO A SCHOOL

FOR THE DEAF.

SO WHERE WE GREW UP IN WINDSOR, ONTARIO, THERE WAS NO

PROVINCIAL SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF THERE FOR HIM TO BE ABLE TO

ACCESS. SO FOR HIS ELEMENTARY EDUCATION, HE WAS IN A

SPECIALIZED SETTING, AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT

CONTINUED ON TO HIGH SCHOOL. SO FOR HIM TO GO INTO A

SPECIALIZED SETTING OR TO A SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF, HE WOULD HAVE

TO MOVE TWO HOURS AWAY FROM THE FAMILY.

AND AT THE AGE OF 13 -- I THINK IT WAS A DECISION MADE BY MY

PARENTS AND HIM. HE DIDN'T FEEL THAT HE WAS READY TO MOVE AWAY

NECESSARILY FROM OUR FAMILY TO GO TO THE SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF TWO

HOURS AWAY.

BUT HONESTLY, I CAN'T NECESSARILY ANSWER THAT FOR HIM. I

THINK THAT'S A QUESTION THAT WOULD BE GREATLY ASKED OF HIM

BECAUSE I CAN'T REALLY ADDRESS KIND OF THE UNDERSTANDING, THE

RATIONALE THAT WOULD KIND OF GO THROUGH HIS HEAD WHEN IT COMES

TO THAT. BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT THE DISTANCE WOULD HAVE BEEN A

FACTOR. WE ARE A FAIRLY CLOSE-KNIT FAMILY, SO I THINK IT WOULD

HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT HARD FOR HIM TO LEAVE AT THAT AGE.

>> Ms. Cundy: THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?

>> DID YOU DECIDE, NATALIA, TO STUDY THE IDEA OF FATIGUE BECAUSE OF



44THE EXPERIENCES THAT YOUR BROTHER HAD ATTENDING A MAINSTREAM

EDUCATION SETTING?

>> Dr. Rohatyn-Martin: SO MY BROTHER HAS BEEN A HUGE INFLUENCE,

DEFINITELY, ON MY CAREER TRACK. I STARTED KIND OF IN A

DIFFERENT AREA. I STARTED IN PSYCHOLOGY WHEN I DID MY

UNDERGRAD, AND I SAW -- I JUST THOUGHT BACK ABOUT THE

EXPERIENCES THAT HE HAD HAD. WHEN I STARTED TO TEACH, I SAW

SOME OF THE STRUGGLES THAT STUDENTS WERE CURRENTLY HAVING IN THE

CLASSROOM AS WELL, AND SO I WENT BACK.

AND I ACTUALLY DID ASK MY BROTHER WHEN IT CAME TO A LOT OF

IDEAS. WE OFTEN EXCHANGE IDEAS WHEN IT COMES TO RESEARCH THAT

I'M DOING. I HAVE HIM PROOFREAD A LOT OF MY THINGS JUST BECAUSE

HE HAS A LOT MORE CONNECTION OBVIOUSLY TO THE DEAF COMMUNITY,

AND SO I ALWAYS WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT BOTH OF US ARE KIND OF

CURRENT IN WHAT'S HAPPENING. AND SO WE OFTEN DO A LOT OF

SHARING WHEN IT COMES TO THAT.

SO HE WAS DEFINITELY A LARGE INSPIRATION WHEN IT CAME TO MY

CAREER TRACK, FOR SURE.

>> Ms. Cundy: I WOULD LIKE TO ADD A COMMENT, IF I COULD. MAKE

SURE I AM IN THE RIGHT SPOT.

WHEN WE LOOK AT EXCEPTIONAL SITUATIONS -- AND YOU HAVE THAT

EXCEPTIONAL SITUATION BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOT A BROTHER WHO IS DEAF

AND CAN PROVIDE THAT EXPERIENCE. AND NICE THAT YOUR WORK WILL

NOW BE PUBLISHED AND INCLUDES THE EXPERIENCE AND PERSPECTIVE OF

DEAF AND HARD OF HEARING STUDENTS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE GONE

THROUGH THESE SETTINGS.

COULD I INVITE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, ONE OR TWO QUESTIONS,



45BEFORE WE ARE INVITED TO ENJOY SOME FOOD AND SOME REFRESHMENTS

WITH EACH OTHER.

>> SO MY QUESTION IS WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR THE FUTURE? DO YOU PLAN

ON DOING FURTHER RESEARCH INTO THIS TOPIC? DO YOU PLAN ON GOING

ELSEWHERE OR, I GUESS, DOING MORE WORK IN THIS FIELD BUT NOT

NECESSARILY RESEARCH?

>> Dr. Rohatyn-Martin: SO YES. IDEALLY I WOULD LOVE TO CONTINUE

ON AND RESEARCH DEFINITELY THE AREA OF FATIGUE. LIKE I SAID,

THERE IS LITTLE TO NO RESEARCH OUT THERE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT

COMES TO STUDENTS WHO ARE DEAF OR HARD OF HEARING AND THEIR

PERCEPTIONS OF FATIGUE AND WHAT'S REALLY WORKING FOR THEM AND

NOT. THAT ALL DEPENDS ON WHERE I WORK IN THE END, BUT I WOULD

DEFINITELY LOVE TO CONTINUE ON WITH THAT.

I AM CURRENTLY DOING WHAT I HOPE TO BE A REPLICATION OF MY

DOCTORAL STUDY WITH UNIVERSITY STUDENTS TO SEE THEIR PERCEPTIONS

OF EDUCATION AND HOW IT'S KIND OF WORKING FOR THEM IN A

DIFFERENT SETTING, AND THEN I'M HOPING TO FIND MORE EXAMPLES OF

FATIGUE AND SEE IF IT'S DIFFERENT IN A POSTSECONDARY LEVEL AS

WELL. SO I WILL DEFINITELY TRY AND CONTINUE ON WITH THIS

RESEARCH.

>> I AM CURIOUS TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT -- FROM THE SOUNDS OF YOUR

STUDY, THERE IS A FOCUS MAINLY ON MAINSTREAM SCHOOLS. I WANTED

TO KNOW IF YOU WERE ALSO INTERESTED OR HAD THOUGHT ABOUT ALSO

STUDYING AND COMPARING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAINSTREAM AND

DEAF INSTITUTIONS AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT WOULD MAKE A

DIFFERENCE TO HOW TIRED THESE STUDENTS WERE.

>> Dr. Rohatyn-Martin: ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.



46ORIGINALLY I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO ALSO HAVE PARTICIPANTS FROM THE

SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF TO POTENTIALLY MAKE SOME COMPARISONS AND SEE

IF THERE ARE ANY DIFFERENCES. BUT CURRENTLY WHEN IT CAME TO

DECIDING WHICH SCHOOLS I WAS ALLOWED TO DO, EDMONTON PUBLIC,

THEY JUST GAVE ME A LIST OF SCHOOLS THAT I WAS TO ACCESS.

UNFORTUNATELY, SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF WASN'T ONE OF THEM.

I WOULD LOVE TO SPEAK TO STUDENTS WHO ARE ATTENDING THE

SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF AND SEE THE DIFFERENCES. BUT I KNOW, JUST

LIKE STUDENTS IN THE MAINSTREAM SCHOOLS, EVERYTHING IS

INDIVIDUALIZED.

SO I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO FATIGUE FACTORS AND WHEN IT

COMES TO THINGS THAT ARE WORKING WELL FOR THEM AND NOT WORKING

WELL FOR THEM, IT WILL ALL BE INDIVIDUAL AND MAYBE NOT

NECESSARILY BASED ON WHERE EXACTLY THEY ARE GOING TO SCHOOL.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION.

SO THE ONLINE QUESTION IS DO YOU THINK THAT ANY OF THE

STUDENTS YOU INTERVIEWED WHO DIDN'T LIKE THEIR FM SYSTEMS MIGHT

HAVE DISLIKED THE FACT THAT THEY WERE -- THEY VISUALLY SINGLED

THEM OUT IN A CLASS AS BEING DIFFERENT?

>> Dr. Rohatyn-Martin: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

YES. I DIDN'T ADDRESS, LIKE, THE SOCIAL ISOLATION OR THINGS

LIKE THAT, BUT I DEFINITELY HAD A FEW STUDENTS WHO HAD SAID THAT

YES, THEY DIDN'T LIKE WEARING IT SIMPLY BECAUSE IT MADE THEM

LOOK DIFFERENT OR THEY WOULD TRY TO HIDE IT OR THEY WOULD REFUSE

TO WEAR THEIR HAIR IN PONYTAILS BECAUSE THEN IT WOULD BE SHOWN.

SO YES, I THINK IT WOULD CONTRIBUTE DEFINITELY TO SOCIAL

ISOLATION FOR SURE. BUT AGAIN, IT'S ALL ON THE PERCEPTION OF



47THE INDIVIDUAL STUDENT AND THE CLASSROOM ENVIRONMENT. IF THEY

FEEL LIKE IT IS A WELCOMING AND ACCEPTING ENVIRONMENT, THEN

MAYBE THEY WOULDN'T NECESSARILY FEEL THAT THEY ARE JUDGED.

BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO -- MOST OF THEM ARE JUNIOR HIGH AND

HIGH SCHOOL, AND I THINK IT'S A REALLY HARD TIME FOR ALL

STUDENTS. EVERYBODY IS VERY CRITICAL OF HOW THEY LOOK AND HOW

OTHERS PERCEIVE THEM, SO I THINK IT'S PARTLY THAT AS WELL.

>> Dr. McQuarrie: THANK YOU, DR. NATALIA. I LIKE THAT.

DR. NATALIA.

YOUR RESEARCH IS VERY TIMELY. AS WITH ALL OF THE RESEARCH

IN THIS AREA, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF TALKING TO

THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE THE LIVED EXPERIENCE. AND SO WHEN

WE TALK ABOUT THE RESEARCH THAT I DO IN THE AREA OF READING, THE

RESEARCH THAT YOU'RE DOING IN THE SCHOOLS, THAT RESEARCH MUST BE

INFORMED BY THE EXPERIENCES OF THE DEAF COMMUNITY AND THE HARD

OF HEARING COMMUNITY AND THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE LIVED

EXPERIENCE.

SO THANK YOU, NATALIA.

AS WE WIND UP TONIGHT, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK OUR

COMMUNICATION TEAM. TO OUR INTERPRETERS, CARLA DUPRAS AND DIANE

De ANDRADE. AND TO JANICE PLOMP, OUR CART PROVIDER. THANK YOU

SO MUCH.

ALSO THANK YOU TO OUR EDUCATIONAL TECHNOLOGY TEAM, LED BY

SHANE KLEIN, FOR THEIR ROLE IN MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF OUR

TECHNOLOGY WORKED TONIGHT AND THAT FOLKS COULD JOIN US FROM ALL

OVER THE COUNTRY.

I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE WCCDS STAFF AND STUDENTS WHO



48VOLUNTEERED THEIR TIME TO BE PART OF THIS EVENING, AND A BIG

THANK YOU TO JENNIFER EIGEARD FOR COORDINATING THE MANY DETAILS

OF PLANNING THIS EVENT.

AGAIN, THANK YOU TO THE EIDEM FAMILY, AND THANK YOU TO EACH

OF YOU WHO JOINED US TONIGHT IN THE AUDIENCE AND VIA

LIVE-STREAM. PLEASE DO JOIN US IN THE AREA DIRECTLY BEHIND

THESE DOORS FOR SOME LIGHT REFRESHMENTS AND LIVELY CONVERSATION.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING. GOOD EVENING TO EVERYBODY.

jones memorial lecture dr. natalia rohatyn-martin november 20, 2017 - university … · 2018. 3....

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