l2. mr.president. i move that the journal just read by · g thank you, lv. president, and ladies...

81ST GENERAL ASSEMBLY

UREGULAR SESSION

JUNE 1979

1* ING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)PRESID2' The hour of nine having arrived the Senate will come3* to order

. Will the guests in our galleries please rise.4. prayer by Father Eugene L

. Bungay, Ehey have St. Joseph's, but

5* it's really Saint Augystinefs, Breeze, Illinois. Reading

6. of the Journal.

7. SECRETARY:

8. Monday, June the 18th, 1979.

9. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

l0. senator Johns.

ll. SENATOR JOHNS:

l2. Mr. President. I move that the Journal just read by

l3. the Secretary be approved unless some Senator has additions

l4. or corrections to offer.

l5. PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

l6. Youfve heard the motion. Those in favor indicate by

17. saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it. The motion carries.

lg. Senator Johns.

SENATOR JOHNS:

Mr. President. I move that reading and approval of the

21. Journals of, Tuesday, June the 19th, Wednesday: June the 20th,

22. Thursday, June the 21st, Friday, June khe 22nd, Saturday, June

2a. the 23rd, Sunday, June the 24th, and Monday, June the 25th,in

24. the year 1979, be postponed pending arrival of the printed Journal.

2s. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

26 You've heard the motion. Those in favor indicate by

27 saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it. The motion carries.

a: House Bill 2nd reading. House Bill 523, Senator Bruce. ' Read

29 the bill, Mr. Secretary.

3c SECRETARY:

az ' House Bill 523.

2 ( Secretary reads title of bill3 .

2nd reading of the bill. No committee amendments.33.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

2. Senator Bruce.

3. SECRETARY:

4. No committee amendment.


6. Are there amendments from Ehe Floor?

7 SECRETARY:

g Amendment No. 1 offered by Senator Bruce.


Senator Bruce.l0.

SENATOR BRUCE:1l.

Thank you, Mr. President. This is a Corporate Personall2.

Property Tax' Bill that we've a11 been waiting to hear, and Il3.

thought we'd call it first thing when therels no one on the14.Floor. No, this is an adoption bill...this is an...this is an

15.adoption bill,and the amendment relates to a suggestion made

16.by the Judiciary Committee, restricting the changes in the

adoption Act on those who would have to file the affidavit tol8.

exclude the non-consenting parent, a judge or a cleri of the19.

court involved in the court proceedings, and I would move the20.

adoption of Amendment No. l to House Bill 523.2l.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)22.

Is there discussion? Senator Rhoads.23.

SENATOR RHOADS:24.

Senator Bruce, thought this was the amendment that did25.

away with E he Governor and the Legislature and replaced it with26. .

a constitutional monarchy in Illinois, is that the amendment?

Al1 right.28.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER; (SENATOR DONNRWALD)29.

Is there further discussion? Question is, shall Amendment30.

No. l to House Bill 523 be adopted. Those in favo r indicate by31.

saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment No.32.

is adopted. Are there further amendments?33.

2

1. SECRETARY:

2. No further amendments.


4. 3rd reading. House Bill 853, Senator Bruce. House

Bill 1168, Senator Geo-Karis. We'll have to hold that tem-

6. pora/ily, Senator. The SEnate will stand at ease. We will take

7. House Bill 1168 out of Ehe record.

g PRESIDENT:

9 Turn to page 29 on the Calendar. On the order of House

yc Bills 2nd reading. 1168, Senator Geo-Karis. On t he Order

11 of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1168. Read the

bill, Mr. Secretary.12.

SECRETARY:l3.

House Bill 1168.l4.

Secretary reads title of billl5.

2nd readinq of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations Il6.

offers one amendment.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Carroll.l9.

SENATOR CARROLL:20.

Why, thank you, Mr. President, and good morning Ladies and21.

Gentlemen of the Senate. This amendment as we had indicated22.

when we were dealing with the H of the FEPC sub-committee23.

is a seven percent solution, with associated accounts and dropping24.

a1l new programs, rents, et cetera, and nine month funding, in25.

order to allow the new department, should it pass this26.

Body, to get into action and then decide the thrust of the new27.

department. I would move the adoption of Amendment No. which28.

is a seven percent solution.29.

PRESIDENT:30.

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No.31.

to House Bill 1168. Is there any discussion? If not, a1l32.

in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have33.

3

The amendment'.is adopted.Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:2.

No further committee amendments.

PRESIDENT:4.

Any amendments from the Floor?5.

SECRETARY:6.

No Floor amendments.7.

PRESIDENT :8.

3rd reading. 1170, Senator Geo-Karis. Oh the Order of9.

House Bills 2nd reading is House Bill 1170. Read the bill,Mr.l0.

Secretary.1l.

SECRETARY:l2.

House Bill 1170.l3.

( Secretary reads title of bill )14.

2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations Il5.

offers one amendment.16.

PRESIDENT:l7.

Senator Geo-Karis. I beg you pardon, Senator Carroll.18. '

SENATOR CARROLL:l9.

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of20.

the Senate. ' This i: the F of the FEPC sub-committee, and this21.

would be the seven percent solution, and a nine month funding.22.

I would move adoption of this amendment. There are some

corrective amendments that we have filed, that we will deal

with next.25.

PRESIDENT:26.

A11 right, Senator Carroll has moved Ehe adoption of27. '

Amendment...committee Amendment No. to House Bill 1170.28.

Is there any discussion? If not, al1 in favor signify by29.

saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment is3o.

adopted. Further amendments?3l.

SECRETARY:32.

No further committee amendments.33.

4

PRESIDENT:

2. Any amendments from the Floor?

3. SECRETARY:

Amendment No.&

'

offered by Senator Carroll.

PRESIDENT:

6. Senator Carroll.

7. SENATOR CARROLL:

g Thank you, lV . President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

N Senate. This is a restoration amendment to restore forty-

eight thousand, nine hundred, by adding some personal servicesl0.

money for EDP postion, and some contractual money to bringll.

them back up to a level Ehey feel necessary to operake during12. .

Ehe interim period. I would move adoption of Amendment No. 2.l3.

PRESIDENT:l4.

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No.l5.

2 to House Bill 1170. Is there any discussion? If not, al116.

favor signify by saying Aye. Al1 opposed. The Ayes have

The amendment is adopted.Further amendments?18.

SECRETARY:19.

Amendment No. 3 offered by Senator Carroll.20.

PRESIDENT:2l.

Senator Carroll.22.

SENATOR CARROLL:23.

Thank you; Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of24.

the Senate. This restores nine months funding for a CETA25.

position that will be transfered to a GRF payroll. would26.

move adoption of Amendment No.

P RESIDENT:28.


to House Bill 1170. Is there any discussion? If notyall30.

in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have3l.

The amendment is adopted.Further amendments?32.

SECRETARY:33.

No further amendments.

5

PRESIDENT:

2. 3rd reading. Senator Donnewald, for what purpose do

3. you arise?

4. SENATOR DONNEWALD:

5. Well, the other day we imposed a rule on sending nokes

in from the outside to the.- to the various members and

I would like that rule reimposed. We're going to be goihg

8 here until ppobably midnight tonight, and we need a1l the

9 time we can have. I would so move.

lo PRESIDENT:

Yourve heard the request. Mr. Doorkeeper, please do not

deliver any further notes to the Floor of the Senate. 1171,12.

Senator Geo-Karis. On the Order of House Bills 3rd...2nd reading,l3.

House Bill 1171. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.l4.

SECRETARY:l5.

House Bill 1171.l6.

Secretary reads title of billl7.

2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriationsl8.

offers one amendment.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:22.

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the23.

Senate. This is a seven percenk solution, with.- some minor24.

reductions in travel and commodities. would move adoption25.

of Amendment No. 1.26.

PRESIDENT:27.


to House Bill 1171. Is there any discussion? If not, a1l29.

in favor signify by saying Aye. A1l. opposed. The Ayes have30. .

. it. The amendment's adopted. Any further amendments?3l.

SECRETARY:32.


t. PRESIDENT:

Any amendments from the Floor?

3. SECRETARY:

4. No Floor amendments.

5 PRESIDENT:

6. 3rd reading. 1172, Senator Berning. On Ehe Order of

7 House Bills 2nd readingisHouse Bill 1172. Read the bill,Mr.

Secretary.8.

SECRETARY:9.

House Bill 1172.l0.

( Secretary reads title of bill )1l.

2n d reading of the bill. The Committee on Approprfations12.

offers one amendment.l3.

PRESIDENT:l4.

Senator Carroll.l5.

SENATOR CARROLL:l6.

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen ofl7. ù

the Senate. This is a seven percent solukion. I would movel8.

adoption.l9.

PRESIDENT:20.

Senator Carroll moves the adoption of Committee2l.

Amendment No. l to House Bill 1172. Is there any discussion?22.

If not, a11 in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The

Ayes have it. The amendment's adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:2b.

No further committee amendments.26. '

PRASIDENT:27.


SECRETARY :29.'


PRESIDENT:3l.

3rd reading. 1190, Senator Nash. 1400: Senator Graham.32.

Senator Graham, for what purpose do you rise?33.

SENATOR GRAHAM :

2. I'd like to rise to make a request from you, Mr.

President, and the Body. Have leave of the Body to pass

4. by 1400 aE this time, because we have neither the analysis

or the amendmenk completely studied, and leave to come

6. back to it at some later time?

7 PRESIDENTI

g You've heard the request. Is leave granted? Leave

* is granted. 1498, Senator Joyce. 1580, senator Philip.

On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1580.l0.

Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.ll.

SECRETARY:l2.

House Bill 1580.l3.

( Secretary reads tikle of bill )l4.

2nd reading of the bill. No committee amendments.l5.

PRESIDENT:16.


SECRETARY:l8.

No Floor amendments.

PRESIDENT:20.

3rd reading. 1588, Senator Hall. l6...top of page 30#2l.

on the Order of House Bills 2nd reading., House Bill 1636,22.

Senator Nimrod. 1638, Senator Regner.. 'ioop of page 30. On23.

the Order of House Bills 2nd reading is House Bill 1638. Read24.

the bill, Mr. Secretary.2b.

SECRETARY:26.

House Bill 1638.27.

( Secretary reads title of bill28.

2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations I offers29.

two amendments.30.

PRESIDENT:3l.

Senator Carroll.32.

SENATOR CARROLL:33.

8

Thank you, Mr. Fresident, and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the Senate. Committee Amendment No. 1, changes the source

). of funding of the grants to the Fire Prevention Fund from

4. GRF. would move adoption of Commiktee amendment No. 1.

5. PRESIDENT:

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Committee

7. Amendment No. to House Bill 1638. Is there any discussion?

g. not, a11 in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The

N Ayes have it. The amendment's adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:l0.

CommitEee Amendment No. 2.

PRESIDENT:l2.

Senator Carroll.l3.

SENATOR CARROLL:l4.

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of thel5.

Senate. This is a seven percent solution, and the elimination16.

of one of the people added by House AmendmenE to the original17.

budgeh as'was introducted. I would move adoption of Amendmentl8.

No. 2.

PRESIDENT:20.

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No.2l.

2 to House Bill 1638. Is there any discussion? If not, al122.

in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it.23.

The amendmentîs adopted. Any further amendments?24.

SECRETARY:2b.


PRESTDENT:27.


SECRETARY:29.

No Floor amendments.3D.

PRESIDENT:31. .

.3rd reading. Senator Nimrod, for 1636. On the Order of32.

House Billé 2nd reading, top of page 30, is House Bill 1.636. Read33. .

9

the billy. Mr. Secretary.

2. SECRETARY:

). House Bill 1636.

4. Secretary reads title of bill

2nd reading of the bill. The Commikkee on Appropriations I

6. offers one amendment.

7. PRESIDENT:

g Senator Carroll.

: SENATOR CARROLL:

lo Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of

y the Senate. This is a seven percent solution, and a phase-in1 .

of the vacancy people so that they can be brought in duringl 2 .

the course of the year . I would move adoption of M endmentl 3 .

No . l .l 4 .

PRESIDENT :l 5 .

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of M endment No .16 .

1 ho House Bill 16 36 . Is there any di scus sion? If not , al1in favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes havel8

.

The amendmentls adopted. Any further amendments?l9.

SECRETARY:20.

No further ccmmittee amendments.2l.

P RESIDENT:22.


SECRETARY:24.


PRESIDENT:26.

3rd reading. 1642, Senator Mitchler. On the Order of27.

House Bills 2nd readings, House Bill 1642. Read the bill, Mr.28.

Secretary.29.

SECRETARY:30.

i1l 1642 was read a second time on June the 25th.House B ,31.

Amendments Ndvs ...No. l'Was adopted. No'. 2 lost. No further32.

committee ameDdments.33. '

10

t. PRESIDENT:


3. SECRETARY:

4. Amendment No. 3 offered by Senator Sommer.

5. PRESIDENT:

6. Senator Sommer.

7. SENATOR SOMMER:

g Mr. President, and members, this provides forty thousand

N dollars for change for the State Fair, so they can...

P RESIDENT:l0.

Senator Sommer has- .ll.

SENATOR SOMMER:l2.

Small change.

PRESIDENT:14.

Senator Sommer has moved the adoption of Amendment No.l5.

3 to House Bill 1642. Is there any discussion? If not, a1ll6.

in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes havel7.

it. The amendment's adopted. Any further amendments?l8.

SECRETARY:l9.

No further amendments.20.

PRESIDENT:2l.

3rd reading. 1644, Senator Schaffer. On Ehe Order of22.

House Bills 2nd reading, is House Bill 1644. Read thè bill, Mr.23.

Secretary.24.

SECRETARY:25.

House Bill 1644.26.

Secretary reads tikle of bill27.

2nd reading of the bill. Committee on Appropriations 11 offers28.

three amendments.29.

PRESIDENT:30.

Senator...senator Buzbee.3l.

SENATOR BUZBEE :32.

Thank you, Mr. President. This Amendment No.l reduces the33.

11

t. FY'80 request to the DeparEment of Children and Family

Services, by seven hundred and fifteen thousand, Ehree

hundred dollars General Revenue in the following areas.

4. Number one, reduces the pay increase by

5. three hundred eighty-four thousand, two hundred dollars,

6. to bring DCFS into compliance with the seven percent guide-

line. Two provides additional phasing for the two hundred

g. and eleven new positions requested by the department on top

9. of the three hundred we just gave them for the balancelo. FY179.' That's a reduction of two hundred forty-three

1l. thousand, two hundred dollars. This is in addition to the

l2. two hundred thousand, eight hundred dollar reduction for

phasing by the House. It reduces retirement lines by forty-

l4. nine thousand, seven hundred, and social security lines by

l5. thirty-eight thousandz two hundred, and I wculd move its adoption.

l6. P RXSIDENT:

17 Senator Buzbee has moved the adoption of Commitkee Amend-

lg ment No.1 to House Bill 1644. Is there any discussion? If not,

19 al1 in favor siénify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have

20 The amendment's adopted. Further amendments?

SECRETARY:2l.

Committee Amendment No. 2.

PRESIDENT:23.

Senator Buzbee.24.

SENATOR BUZBEE:25.

Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment reduces Central26. .

Support Services by sixty-two thousand dollars, by reducinc27.

fifty-four thousand, three hundred dollars in Personal Services,28.

in the concomitant retirement and social security reduction.29.

The reduction represents the elimination of four pew positions.30.

The four new associate directors who are assistants to the three31. .

new deputy directors- This amendment was offered in the committee32.

'

by Senator Regner, and we concurred completely and I would move its33.

adoption.

12

FRESIDENT:

Senator Buzbee has moved the adoption of Committee

). Amendment No. to House Bill 1644. Is there any discussion?

4. If not, al1 in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed.

5. The Ayes have it. The amendment's adopted. Any further

6. amendments?

SECRETARY:

8 Committee Amendment No. 3.

PRESIDENT:9.

Senator Buzbee.l0.

SENATOR BUZBEE:1l.

Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment eliminates12.

two Social Service Program Planners, four from èhe Chicagol3.

region for a total reduction of thirty-four thousand, twol4.

hundred dollars from General Revenue, a nd I would move itsl5;

adoption.16.

PRESIDENT:l7. ,

Senator Buzbee has moved the adoption of Committeel8.

Amendment No. 3 to House Bill 1644. Is khere any discussion?l9.

Senator Buzbee.20.

SENATOR BUZBEE:. 2l.

I'm sorry, Mr. President. That amendment was to be

Tabled, we have a better one in iks flace.23.

PRESIDENT:24.

A11 right, Senator Buzbee has moved to Table CommiEtee25.

Amendment No. 3 to House Bill 1644. Senator Grotberg. Senator Grotberg.26.

SENATOR GROTBERG:27.

Well, I have a1l kinds of objections to that.' It was my28.

amendment in committee, and it's a good amendment. It reduces29.

that planning'concept that we had.30.

PRESIDENT:3l.

Further discussion? Senator Carroll.32.

SENATOR CARROLL:33. '

We just f elt , that not only was it a good amendment2 ' b t it

. . . a good amendment can be made better , as we hadu

3 ' discussed with Senator Grotberg. This amendment would

4 ' have reduced two people working in the area of planning

from Chicago only , and we felt that if you should get rid of

6 . them, get rid of two from Chicago , and two f rom downstate ,

7 . and since there are what , four and four orginially as I

8 . recall, and Sentor Grotberg had a good idea . and we thoughE

9. uniformity is fakr play. So we have an amendment on the

l0. Floor to Eake two and two.

PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

l2. Any further discussion? SenaEor Regner.

l3. SENATOR REGNER:

l4. Senator Grotberg, that was the second amendment you

ls. had ready, buk yop offered the first one, instead. So they

l6. liked your idea better.

k7. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

l8. Is there further discussion? Senator Buzbee moves to '

19. Table Amendment No. to House Bill 1644. Those in favor

2p. will indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. Th: Ayes have

2l. it. Amendment No. Tabled. Senator Buzbee. Senator Carroll.

22. Is there further amendments? .

23. SECRETARY:

24. No further committee amendments.

s PRESIDING OEEICER: (SEkATOR SAVICKAS)2 .

26. ARY FlOOr amendments?

27. SECRETARY:

28 Amendment No. 4 offered by Senators Vadalabene and Mitchler.

29 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

ag Senator Vadalabene.

31. SENATOR VADALABENE:

Yes; thank you, Mr. President, and members of *he Senate.32.

This amendment adds two million, one hundred and four thousind,33.

14

1.

2.

4.

5.

6.

7 Is there further discussion? Senator Rock.

g SENATOR ROCK:'' Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen9.

of the Senate. This amendment would add two million dollarsl0.

to again fund that home which the administration and the1l.

new head of the department wish to phase-out. I franklyl2.

think the phase-out is a good idea. We have year afterl3.

year suggested that some of these State run and operatedl4.

institutions really ought to be closed, in an economy move.l5.

The children that are currently housed in that facility16.

will,in fact.o.are,in fact, able to be placed privately.l7.

There simply is no need for this facility, and I wouldl8.

urge the rejection of Amendment No. 4.l9.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)20.

Is there further discussion? Senator MiEchler.2l.

SENATOR MITCHLER:22.

Mr. President, and members of the Senate. I rise in

two hundred dollars to the fiscal.- request to the

Department of Children and Family Services to fully

fund the Illinois Soldiers and Sailors Childrens Home,

at Bloomington-Normal, and I move for the adoption of

House Bill 1644.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

support of this amendment, to restore these funds to Ehe24.

Department of Children and Family Services to keep open a25.

facility that has been operating since shortly after the26. .

Civil War: and this Children and Family Services operation27.

in the Illinois Soldiers and Sailors Home...fhildrens School28.

in Normal, does have a ' need. This has been supported by29.' the Veterans Organizations who have met there annually on

3G.the grounds. They have a great interest in the children that

3l.are cared for at the facility. Now, we have a new director

32. .of the Department of Children and Family Services, Gregqry

33.

Coler. Irm very impressed with this Gentlemen, and I

2. say thak in al1 sincerity, however, to come in and with-

in the thirty day period of being in the Stater close

4. the facility that has been in operaEion since shortly

after the Civil War, that's doing a job of rehabilitating

6 students Ehat has previously' been placed in private care

7 facilities, and it found out that they did not work out

in those facilities, and the big reason behind closil.g8.

the Illinois Soldiers and Sailors Childrens School at9.

Normal is' to geE Federal dollars, because you get al0.

bigger Federal match when you take these children out1l.

and put them in private institutions and foster homes,l2.

and this is a State institution. Now, you say...l3.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l4.

Senator, your time has expired.l5.


Al1 right.


Senator Netsch.

SENATOR NETSCH:20.

Thank you, Mr. President. think the question is2l.

not nearly as clear a..-cut of one, as Senator Rock indicated.22.

It is a much closer question, and I know a number of us who23.

have been talking about this over a period of time, have24.

wavered back and forth, and at times have assumed the posture25.

of being a yo-yo. We've been kind of a up and down Erying t'o26.

decide what is the right thing. The...it seems to me though27.

that as of this morning,anyway, sèveral of us, I at least for28.

one have concluded that we should vote against the amendment29.

whic'h means supporting the Department in its decision to phase-30.

out ISSC. It is I think a good faith 'programmatic decision.3l.

It was not one that was made solely on the basis of cost, al-32.

though that obviously was an overwhelming factor in Programmat'ically33.

16

1. the director of the deparEment, whom I think we should

give a chance to try to straighten out this department, has

). indicated that he would not want this institution quite

apart from the cost aspect of is not absolutely

5. clear khat the private sector will be able to absorb this,

6. but I think we should give it a chance.

7 PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

g Senator Knuppel.

9 SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Well, Senator Netschls logic always amazes me. Whatl0.

the hell do we do if the private sector can't do it. Thenll.

the school is closed, in other words this is an unreturnablel2.

and irrevocable decision, and we have a new director, welve13.

had a hell of a lot of directors in thçre over the last fewl4.

years. The next director may want it. I'd say let's gol5.

slow. In my district the Department of Children and Familyl6.

Services actually approved a foster home operated by a homo-

sexual and it was known to them, I had told them so. Youl8.

also had a deal where they hàd a boy chained to a bed upl9.

in Belvidere. I've heard none of that kind of...charges brouéht2o.

against the children who are problem children kept in the2l.

Soldiers and Sailors Home, which is...has been an outstanding22.

place for youngesters for almost, as Senator Mitchler says,23.

all the way back to the Civil War. It is a kind of ir-24.

recocable decie on. If...if Directbr Coler is such a hell of25.

a man, let's give him a chance and a year from now let's go26.

with him, but I've seen a 1ot of roses that bud in the Spring27.

that don't bloom in the Fall.28.

P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)29.

Channel 3 would like leave of the...permission to film30.

the debate. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. We have3l.

in this order, the members who have requested to speak, senator32.

Regner, Newhouse, Collins, Davidson, Maitland, Geo-Karis, and for33.

17

the second time, Senator Mitchler. Senator Regner.

2. SENATOR REGNER:

Well, Mr. President, and members. rise in opposition

to this amendment. The only argument that I had really

5. heard up to this point to keep the home open. Of course we

6. know it's going to cost a 1ot of money on rehabilitàtion -of

7 the physical plant and also to reprogram it, but the only

g logical argument Ifd heard up to this point is, the place-

ment of the children that are there now. Up until about9.

three or four days ago, a1l but ten or eleven of the childrenl0.

were placed somewhere within the Department of Children1l.

and Family Service sysEem, in adequate training facilities.12.

Since then I have had a list from Director Coler showingl3.

exactly where the oEher Een or eleven, whatever the number

was, forget, are going. So the only logical...argument

was, where the children going to go. That has been aêcomp-l6.

lished, we know exactly where they're going to go, andl7.

where they are right now and I would urge the defeat of thisl8.

amendment because it is absolutely unnecessary to keepl9.

this facility open at the cost that it would take to operate20.

it properly.2l.


Senator Newhouse.23.

SENATOR NEWHOUSE:24.

Mr. President. It is amazing to me how with such alacrity

we deal with the lives of the children of this State. The facts26.

of live are, that in the social services there has never been

any kind of consistent policy. We'1l have deinstitutionalization28.

one day, institutionalization the other day, and in the Department29.

of Children and Family Services, and those other social services30.

agencies, there is little concern given for the lives of the3l.

people involved. If we talk about money, the cost of misplacing32.

these children can be so extreme to this State at some point33.

18

in the fuEure, in corrections, for example, and elsewhere,

2. that it would be minuscule by comparison to what we are

paying out Eoday. don't know how people can come and

in a short period of time make decisions such as this that

5. will affect lives. We'x not talking dollars, wefre talking

6. lives, but the long run consequences of talking lives, is

7. the hugh dollar cost that this is likell'.w.this is likely to

present us with at some point in the future. There is no

N rationality, the shutting down this instituEion on such a

yo quick take basis if.. if that institution has been doing the

yy job Ehat everyone gives it credit for doing. Those children

ought to be protected, that insEitution ought to stay open12.

till such time as we are absolutely satisfied that there isl3.

an alternative that will serve their needs, as this instituEionl4.

has in the past.l5.


Senator Collins.l7.

SENATOR COLLTNS:18.

Thank you, Mr. President. can only echo the sentimentsl9.

expressed by Senator Newhouse. know the history of that20.

department, and Iîm not saying that the new director does not2l.

have good intentions, and is actually making a sincere effort22. .

to try to correct some of the problems of that department: but23.

I don't think that we,as legislator's knowing the history

of that departmeht, and how things change from one year to

another, one month after another, that we can skand here, re-26.

cognizing that history, and recognizing the necessity for

providing services for hardcore children in this SEate, and28.

recognizing that we have had decisions from the adminisErative29.

division of Ehat deparEment in the past, that says that now30.

we got the solution to a problem, and only to find that we31.

see those same children, that they said that they had services32.

and resources for, sleeping in the hallways or Eurned loose on33.

19

:. the street or ending up in the Department of Corrections or

2. into county jails. What we're dealing here with now, with...

are reality, and reality do not have any place for those

4. children, and I suggest that if Director Coler does have

5. resources for them, 1et us say that we phase this program

6. out, find provisions for those children, provisions and

7 services, that we can guarantee that they- .thak the services

g are available. Not based on what he says or anyone else

says, otherwise, I Ehink welre going to be iniserious trouble9.

if we phase-out that- .soldiers and Sailors Home, and I askl0.

thaE you sùpport this amendment.1l.


Senator Davidson.l3.

SENATOR DAVIDSON:l4.

Mr. President, and members of the Senate. I rise in support

of this amendmenk. There was a report study done, was reported

out in Feburary, 'it...it serviced till last week, said thel7. 1

necessity of why this school should be kept.l think the mostl8.

important thing was a letter I think al1 of you got the same19.

as was the girl who was salvaged, made a useful citizen by20.

*he advent of beinq at this school, had been well on her way21.

to prison, and had already a . juvènile delinquent, was finally22.

placed in Ehis home because of no control. think the most23.

important reason to vote Aye for this amendment with the letter

khat she sent to one and a11 of you, why this should be kept. If

we can salvage one person, useful citizen, such as she was, we

certainly can serve and save more. urge you to vote Aye on

this amendment.28.


For what purpose does senator Lemke arise?30. .

SENATOR LEMEE:3l.

I move *he previous question. This is a good reason why32.

in the Senate we shouldn't leE TV cameras come. in because wea3. f

20

1. have everybody want to Ealk, and we're going to be here a1l

weekend. So let's...I move Ehe previous question, let's get

). on with the business, and le*'s make a rule that we don't 1et

4. the TV cameras or anybody in here anymore so we can get scme

5 business done, and get down to the Peoples business, as not having

6 al1 of these television stars.

7 PRESIDING OFFICER:ISENATOR SAVICKAS)

g Senator Lemke has moved the previous question. Before

we put the question, we have Senator Davidson who spoke,9.

Senator MaiEland, Geo-Karis, Grotberg, Mitchler, and Rockl0.

for the second time, and Senator Johns. Those favorll.

of adopting the motion say Aye. Those opposed. Previousl2.

question has been moved. Senator Maitland.l3.

SENATOR MAITLAND:14.

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen ofl5.

the SenaEe. It is extremely difficult to stand before this16.

Body and oppose an amendment that affects an institution inl7.

ones own district. Ifve tried for some months to supportl8.

the keeping open of this institution, had conversations withl9.

the Governor. Indicated to him that if the placements for2D.

the kids were not found, I would-- would have no reservations2l.

about opposing t'he aktempt to close the institution. I've been

in weekly contact with the director, he has assured me, as he

has others that the placements were...were coming along. We24.

in fact, know that they are there. I shan'k rise and tell you2b.

thàt care at ISSCS has not been good, its been excellent. I've26.

attended the classes, talked with the kids, talked with the27.

teachers, with Ehe counselors. They're doing a super job, but28.

this is not to say that this care can't be had in other areas.29.

Currently ,my friends,we're spending thirty-three thousand dollars3ô.

a kid, at ISSCS. We have from seven-five to ninety kids there,3l.

and a staff of one hundred and twenty-five. We can do it as32.

well and more efficiently in the private sector. Senator Newhouse,33.

21

I agree with your concern. support those concerns

totally. What we have to do is to allow this much

). needed money to be spent on more kids around the State.

4. DCFS has not had a good name in Tllinois, weCre trying

5. to improve that name. The care is there for the kids,

6. the homes are there for the kids, the education is there

for the kids, therefore, I think we should, think we

should defeat this amendment.8.


Senator Geo-Karis.l0.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of *he Senate.l2.

Not for the benefit of the TV cameras, but for the benefitl3.

of the children. In the Walker administration they closed14.

many institutions in the same basis that we're going tol5.

find places for relocation, and 1'11 tell you what theyrvel6.

did. > ey found miserable places for relocation: they were17.

bady bad, bad, know I sat on several sub-committees in-l8.

vestigating them, and I think we should give Director Colerl9.

a chance to operate for at least a year, and then if' he20.

comes through with a better solution, fine, I'd be 'the2l.

first one to concur with my seatmate. However, I Ehink

that the amendment is good, and I thipk we should continue

with the home, as long as it is bèing run well, because24.

already they're spending...in certain areas in Chicago25.

and Dupage County over a hundred dollars a day for children26.

that need it and need that kind of help, and frankly, they're27.

not any better than this particular home, and I move for28.

its adoption.29.


Senator Grotberg.3l.


Mr. President, and members öf the Senate. stand in33.

22

I opposition Eo this amendment. It's unconscionable that

on like forty-two or forty-five acres of ground. and some

forty buildings that the taxpayers of the State have to3.

keep up that whole plant, besides the care of thirty...less4. .

than one hundred children. Now, the private sector does have5.

the capacity to Eake this, but the Governor's Rate Review6.

Board on these situations have been too stingy and they're

starving the private sector. We passed a 1aw around here8.

two years ago, that says you got to pay the price or you...or9.

we will have your head. They still are not paying thel0.

price and that is what is weakening the private sector'. If

thaE agency would just obey the law, there would be plentyl2.

of room and plenty of care in the private sector for every-l3.

one of these children, and we wouldn't have to maintainl4.

. . .something the size of the State Fairgrounds to keepl5.

one hundred kids on. Let's get at it and kill this amend-l6.

ment and force their hand into obeying the law, one hundredl7. .

percent cost of...reasonable cost of care.l8.


Senator Johns.20.

SENATOR JOHNS:

Mr. President. Welre willing to spend a million dollars

a year to lease a building for Corrections, but we can't

spend the money to take care of kids. They tell me these24.

kids are going Eo be put back somewhere else, right back where25.

they got them from. That's where theylre going to put them,26. '

they've been turned out three and four times. This is asinine.27.

I1m for this amendment, because 1'11 kell you what', you 're going28..

Eo find Ehis director is noE as good as the past one. He's29.

slick, he's unctuous. You're going Eo find that out, cause30.

he won't look you in the eye and he won't give you a word,

and he won't follow.through. You wait and see. Ilm telling32.

you, where are these kids going to go to. Where are theyh3 3 .

going to go? These are hard to handle kids: they need the

love and care that comes from this institution.Thirty percent

of the State budget right now, is going to private care,

why don't we sell this building, and rent someplace if we're

4 going to go back to private care. The word of this administration

is not worth a hoot, and you know it. Now, let me tell you5.

something, these kids are worth every...every penny that6.

we spend on Ehem. This department is riddled with inefficiency

and you're throwing boukueEs over this new director, you'd8.

better take a minute and look him over and put him to the9.

test before we start throwing the red carpet out.l0.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)ll.

Now, we've concluded the list of those speakers thatl2.sought recognition for the first time, before Senator

Lemke's motion. Senator Mitchler, and then Senator Rock14.

for the second time. Senator Mitchler.15.

SENATOR MITCHLER:l6.

Well, Mr. President, and members of the SenaEe. T think17.

you want to take a good look at this and say to your ownl8.

conscience, have I been to that facility, do I know thel9.

operation, do I know these teenagedchildren, they're not20.

kids, kids are goats, and thatls about how you 're treating them.2l.

Shifting them from one pen to another until you finally22.

get them out to slaughter and thgy wind up in our correctional

institutions. Now, these teenaged childred need help, and that24.

facility has been sponsored by various organizations- .ldve25.

visited that institution long before I even thought about coming26.

to the State Senate. There's prilgrimages there annnually by27.

thé American Legion and the American Legion Auxiliary. They28.

care for the students in the various cottages. Now, the29. '

Department of Children and Family Services is in a shambles.30. '

I'm on the Legislative Audit Commission, they've got a thirty31. '

million dollar deficiency over there that I confronted32.

that new director with, and the reason you don't have the

24

children there is because they haven': placed them Ehere,

they've let that department...that school under their care2.

go into chaos. Now, they should get with it, and if this3.

Director Coler is on the bàll...4.

PRESIDING .OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)5.

Senator, your time has expired.6.

SENATOR MITCHLER:7.

. . .he: should put the students there and...8.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICXAS)9.

Senator Rock.l0.

SENATOR ROCK:1l.


the SenaEe. Very briefly to respond to some of the, what13.

think are irresponsible allegations that were heard earlier.l4.

There was testimony in the committee, and there has been,l5.

frankly, a 1ot of discussion over the past four or five monthsl6.

with respect to this proposed closing. These children have,

in fact,...have, fact, all been placed, and I think. anythingl8.

. . .anybody who says anything in the contrary simply doesn'tl9.

know what they're talking about.20.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)2l.

Senator Vadalabene may close the debate.22.

SENATOR BADALABENE:23.

Yesz thank you, Mr. President, and members of the Senate.24.

1111 try to be rational because I think some of us got carried25.

away about this, however, as Sentor Knuppel has said, Director26 ' ' '

Coler has been in Illinois since January, and has not been able

to convince the private sector Eo accept khese kids even on a28.

temporary bases. The children continue to sleep in DFC offices29.

and will do so until emergency shelter is prepared. However,30.

let me say this, khe DFCS has claims that al1 but a few of the31.

ISSC residents have placements as of today. The fact is that32. .

with twenty-eight of these children, only referrals at a number33.

25

1. of placements have been made and last week three of the

children were rejected from their referral placements. There-3. fore a referral should not be considered the same as a place-

4. ment. It also musk be remembered that children at TSSCS being

5. placed in their communities or children who have completed

6. a seven month treatment program. These are the children who

p are ready to return to their communities, and ISSCS must remain

g open, not only for these ninety-two children, but for the

other teenagers in trouble who have a place to go, and Senator9.

Grotberg, just one question in regard Eo your remarks. Il0.' believe the saving of the future of one teenager is worthll

.

more than forty-eight acres of land, and I move for the

adoption of this amendment.l3.


Question is# shall...for what purpose does Senatorl5.

Knuppel arise?l6.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:l7.

On a question of personal privilege. I don't know who18.

Senator Rock's remarks were directed to, but 1'11 tell him,19.

and itls no lie, that the Department of Children and Family20.

Services, knowing that in my district, approved as a foster2l.

home, a homosexual, and in addition to khat, there was a22.

home approved in Belviderewhere a child was chained to a23.

bed and burned to death, now you may be right, theylve24.

been placed, but I want to know where they've been placed,25.

and just because they've been placed doesn't mean that26.

those homes are the kind of homes that these children'ought27.

to be put into.28.


The question is on the adoption of Amendment No. 4 to30.

House Bill 1644. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those opposed

j. 'w 11 vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish?32.

Have al1 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question,33. .

26

the Ayes are the Nays are None Voting Present.

Amendment No. 4 havinq failed to received a majority is

3. declared lost. For what purpose does Senator Mitchler

4. arise?

5. SENATOR MITCHLER:

6. The negative voEes.

7 PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

g Will a11 those Senators please be seated. Mr. Secretary.

And will' you answer to roll call as your name is called. Will9.

you take a verification of the negalive vote?l0.

SECRETARY:

The following voted in the negative: Becker, Bloom,12.

Bowers, Buzbeer Chew, Coffey, D'Arco, Daley, Demuziov..orl3.

Donnewald, Egan, Grotberg, Maitland, Martin, McLendon, McMillan,l4.

Moore, Nega, Netsch, Ozinga, Philip, Regner, Rhoads, Schaffer:l5.

Shapiro, Sommer, Walsh, Weaver, Mr. President.l6.


Are there any questions of the voke?18. I

SENATOR MTTCHLER:

Senator Egan.


Senator Egan is in his seat.22.


Senator Walsh.24.


Senator Walsh is in front of you.26.

SENATOR MTTCHLER:27.

Thatls all that I have.28.


Are there any...senator Daley is standing at the podium.30.

Are there any further questions? If not, the roll call has

been verified and the Ayes are 26, the Nays are 28...for what32.

purpose does Senator Donnewald arise? The Ayes are thë33.

Nays are 28. None Voting Present. The amendment having failed

2. to receive a majority is declared lost. Senator Donnewald.

3. SENATOR DONNEWALD:

4. Well, I would like to have the attention of the member-

ship as Eo the schedule today and tonight. There will be

6. no break for lunch or for dinner. We're going to go straight

7. throughy order to complete our...our schedule on the Order

g of 3rd reading, wedre going to have to cqnsider 6ne hundred and

fifty bills on the Order of 3rd reading today, to get through9.

yc the Calendar on the Order of 3rd twice. So, I would hope that we'd a11

use good judgement and act accordingly.ll.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)l2.

Are there any further amendments?l3.

SECRETARY:l4.

Amendment No. offered by Senator Carroll.l5.


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:l8.

Thank youy yœ. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen ofl9.

the Senate. This is the one we had spoken about a moment20.

ago wiEh Senator Grotberg's to reduce the planners b0th in2l.

Chicago office and downstate of equal number and I would22.

move adoption of Amendment No. 5.23.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)24.

Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll moves25.

the adoption of Amendment No. 5 to House Bill 1644. Those26.

in favor will indicate by voting...saying Aye. Those opposed

Nay. The Ayes have it. Amendment No. 5 is adopted. Any28.

further amendments?29. .

SECRETARY:30.

Amendment offered by Senator Netsch.3l. .


Senator Netsch. Amendment No. 6.33.

28

SENATOR NETSCH:

Yes, Mr. President. This amendment was prepared,

particularly at the request of some of the groups who

4 were interested in ISSC in the event that the amendment

5 to restore the funds did not prevail, which it did not.

6 The purpose of it is to have in the department's budget,

in effectzthe authority to prepare a substitute smaller

scale group home, if, in fact, the private sector does8. .

not come Ehrough as the department believes willr and9.

as those of us who voted along with the department alsol0.

believe and hope it will. It is in a sense a back up11.

amendment, it is not expecEed nor intended that it will

have to be utilized, buE it is there in case something

goes terribly wrong. That is Ehe purpose of- .and I14. '

i ht say incidentally it provides only for the possibilitym gl5.

of a downstate residential facility. The budget was prepared16.

as I understand on the basis of a approximately twenty-l7. .

five to thirty person group home, which is what Directorl8.

Coler had indicated he would much prefer to an institution19.

the size of ISSC.20.


Is there further discussion? Senator Regner.22.SENATOR REGNER:

Will the sponsor yield to a question?


She indicates she will.26.

SENATOR REGNER:27.

Senator Netsch, do you say where Ehis money was supposed28.

to be used? couldn't hear you if you did.29.


Senator Netsch.3l. .

SENATOR NETSCH:32.

No, only in the sense that it is specified to be ''downstate''

29

but not in terms of a particular location, and presumably1.

that would be decided in terms of the departments needs,2.

the need ever came about, and hopefully it would not.).

frankly, intended to be a back up, a safety valve in the event4.

that the department's and the private sectors judgment turns5.

out to be absolutely wrong, which obviously we hope it will6.

not be.7.


Senator Regner.9.

SENATOR REGNER:l0. .

Well, Mr. President, and members. With no specificl1.

usage of it, I had mentioned to the department and they'rel2. '

convinced Ehey don't need it either, and.- it's sixl3.

hundred thousand dollars for something that nobody isl4.

quite sure what it is, and like said the departmentl5. has admitted that they don't need it, and I'd urge defeat

of this amendment.


Senator Collins.l9.

SENATOR COLLINS:. 2 () .

' Question of the sponsor.2l.


She indicates she will yield.23.

SENATOR COLLINS:24. Senator Netschvyou said this was a back up measure for25. ,the department, Ehat they wanted jusk in case they didn t26.

find the placements for Ehose kids ?


senator Netsch.29.

SENATOR NETSCH:30. dNo, the department did not request this. T his was requeste31. 'by- .specifically by the Commissiof on Children, in the32. event that the other amendmenk did not prevail, and I might say33.

30

the Commission on Children wanted the.- senator Vadalabene's1.

motion to prevail, to restore the ISSC funds. They recognized2.

that it might not, and they had asked that this amendment).

be presented in that eventuality, so that there would be

a alternate, if it were needed.


Senator Collins.7.

SENATOR COLLINS:8.

I can assure you it will be needed.9.


Senator Knuppel.ll.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:l2.

Well for the lack' of consistency, this beats it all.l3.

The Department of Children and Family Services spend moneyl4.

around here like a dnuhken sailor on leave, and they get

five million dollars, they don't want to work on weekends.l6.

I had a judge here last week who told me that.-just exactlyl7.

what said you can't find any of these so-called social18.

workers when you need them. They hired somebody that- .re-l9.

hired somebody with a five million dollars that they got,2o. .

Ehat had been laid off before and hadn't proved successful.2l.

It's just ridiculous on the one hand to say that you22.

should close the Sailors Childrens.n sailors and Soldiers23. '

Home in Bloomington, and then on Ehe next ballot, vote for24.

money to do it some other way just in case,which automatically

admits that the present director doesn't have his fdet on26.

the ground yet.


Is there further discussion? Senator Netsch may close29.

the debate.30.' SENATOR NETSCH:3l. think one thing should be poinked out. Director Coler,32. had said to many of us who are on Ehe commitkee hearing and33.

31

1. considering this, thak under no circumstances would

2. he want an institution like ISSC continued. If

3. turned out that he was wrong, and the private sector

4. could not absorb everyone who was being transferred

5. from ISSC and he felt very confident that they could,

6. buE if it turned out...if he turned out to be wrong

7 he said he would wanE a small group home instead of

8 an institution like ISSC. That was the reason why some

of the groups prepared this amendment and offered it9.

in the eventuality that the ISSC was to continue to bel0.

phased-out.1l.


Senator Netsch moves the adoption of Amendment No.l3.

6 to House Bill 1644. Those in favor will vote Aye. Thosel4.

opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l votedl5.

who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Take the...have a11l6.

voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, thel7.

Ayes are 15# the Nays are 39. None Voting Present. Amendment18.

No. 6 having failed to received a majority is declared lost.l9.

Any further amendments?20.

SECRETARY:


P RESIDING OFFICER: VSENATOR SAVICKAâ)23.

3rd reading. House Bill 1646, Senator Nimrod. House Bill24.

1649, Senator Nimrod. House Bill 1652, Senator Grotberg.25.

House Bill 1656, Senator Nimrod. House Bill 1916, Senator Demuzio.26.

Read the billr Mr. Secretary.27.

SECRETARY:28.

House Bill 1916.29.

( Secretary reads title of bill30.

2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations3l.

offers one amendment.32.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR' SAVICKAS)33. .

Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of

Ehe Senate. There is a kechnical defect in this amendment.

4. We have a Floor amendment to correct it. I move to Table

5. Commiktee Amendment No.


7. Senator Carroll moves to Table Committee Amendment No.

8. House Bill 1916. Those in favor will indicate by

: saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have Amendment

No. Tabled. Senator Carroll.l0.

SECRETARY:

No further committee amendments.l2.


Any amendments from 'the Floor?14.

SECRETARY:l5.

Amendment No. 2 offered by Senator Carroll.l6.

FRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)17. i

Senator Carroll.l8.

SENATOR CARROLL:


the Senate. This amendment did what *he last one was supposed

to do, and thatîs a reducEion for the seven percent solution

of phase-in of one of the new attorneys and some other reductions23.

in contractual. We have additionally a further Floor amendment24.

to meet the needs if a certain substantive bill passes. would25.



Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll28.

moves the adoption of Amendment No.2 to House Bill 1916. Those29.

in favor will vote- .say Aye. Those opposed Nay-. The Ayes30.

have it. Amefdment No. 2 is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:32.

Amendment No. 3 offered by Senator Carroll and Demuzio.33.

33


2. Senator Carroll.

). SENATOR CARROLL:

4. Thànk you: Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of

5. the Senate. On behalf of Senator Demuzio and myself this

6. amendment would allow for hiring of a: investigator chief

7. and an investigator, :hould the Legislature give this new

a. power to this particular agency, and we thought best to add

: the money at this timp if the substantive does fail then we

1c. will pull the money out. would move adoption of Amendment

No.


Is there any further discussion? Tf not, Senatorl3.

Carroll moves the adoption of Amendment No. 3 to Housel4.

Bill 1916. Those in favor will indicate by saying Aye.l5.

Those opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment No. 3 isl6.

adopted. Any further amendments?17.

SECRETARY:l8.



3rd reading. Is there leave to go back to the Order

of House Bill 1652? Leave is granted. Senator Grotbergr

on 1652. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.23.

24.

25.

26.(END OF REEL')27

.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

34

REEL #2

1. SECRETARY:

2. House Bill 1652.

3. ( Secretary reads title of bill )

4. 2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations

11 offers one amendment.

6. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

7 Senator Buzbee.

g SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment has the effect9.

of a net reduction of one hundred ninety-five thousand dollars.l0.

It reduces Personal Services, Retirement, and Social Security,1l.

et cetera, by four hundred three thousand, six hundred dollars:l2.

to bring DVR in line with the seven percent pay raise guideline.l3.

One new position which will be picked up by the CETA funds, isl4.

also cut, in general administration. Number two it shiftsl5.

twenty-five hundred dollars from the Illinois children's Hospitall6.

School, Tele -communications to a new operation of Auto Equip-

ment . for the hospital school. Number three, it adds two18.

.. .two hundred and thirty thousand dollars cut from personall9.

services and related- accounts, to the case service line to20.

avoid loosinq these Federal funds, and I would move its adoption.2l.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Buzbee moves23.

the adoption of Amendment No. to House Bill 1652. Those in24.

favor will indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes2b.

have it. Amendment No. 1 is adopted. Any further amendments?26. .

SECRETARY:27.



3rd reading. Is there leave to go back to the Order30.

of House Bill 1646, 1649, and 1656? Leave is granted.3l.

Senator Shapiro, on 1646. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.32.

SECRETARY:33.

1.

Secretary reads title of bill )

3. 2nd reading of the bill. The Commiktee on Appropriations

4. I offers one amendment.


6. Senator Shapiro.

7. SENATOR SHAPIRO:

8. Senator Carrolly Mr. President, will handle the amendment.

: PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Carroll.10.

SENATOR CARROLL:ll.


the Senate. This is a seven percent solution, and a reductionl3.

of a likEle over a third of the new positions requested. The reductionl4.

is basically kaken in the Chicago offices as opposed to the

downstate offices' and I would move adoption of Amendment No.l6.

1.l7.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)l8.

Is there further discussion? If ngt, Senator Carroll moves -l9.

the adoption of Amendment No. 1 to House Bill 1646. Those in20.

favor will indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes21.

have it. Amendment No. 1 is adopted. Any further amendments?22.

SECRETARY:23.

No further committee amendments.24. .



SECRETARY:27.

No Floor amendmenks.28.


3rd reading. House Bill 1649. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.30.

SECRETARY:3l.

House Bill 1649.32.

Secretary reads kitle of bill33.

House Bill 1646.

36

1. 2nd reading of the bill. The Commiktee on Appropriations

2. offers two amendment.

). PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

4. Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

6. Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of

7. Ehe Senate. Committee Amendment No. l is basically the seven

g percent solutionr with some eliminations of expanding positions

: and I would move...and it breaks out certain' line items in

EDP: into a special EDP account. I would move adoption ofl0.

Amendment No. 1.1l.


Is there further discussion? notz Senator Carrolll3.

moves the adoption of Amendment No. to House Bill 1649. Thosel4.

in favor will vote...signify by saying Aye. Those opposed. Thel5.

Ayes have iE. Amendment No. adopted. Any further amendments?l6.

SECRETARY:

Committee Amendment No.l8.


Senakor Carroll.20.

SENATOR CARROLL:2l.


the Senate. At the request of Senator Sommer, this amend-23.

ment had been adopted in committee, to restore seventy-one24.

thousand plus dollars to seven officers in the downskate enforce-25.

ment program who are going to be terminated because of a change26.

in function Eo law enforcement, it was Senator Sommer's feeling

and the committee's concern that these people not be just suddenly28.

cut off, and that they be phased-out the same wày in which we29.

phase-in people, and I move adopkion of Amendment No. 2.30.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)ïl.


the adoption of Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 1649. Those in favor33.

37

will say Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment

No. 2 is adopted. Any further amendments?

3. SECRETARY:

4. No further amendments...no further commikkee amendments.

5. PRESIDING OFFICER: 'ISENATOR SAVICKAS)


7 SECRETARY:

8 No Floor amendments.


lc 3rd reading. House Bill 1656. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY :

House Bill 1656.l2.

( Secretary reads tiEle of bill )13.

2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations14.

I offers three amendments.l5.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)16.Senator Carroll.l7

.

SENATOR CARROLL:18.

Thank you, Mr. Presidenty and Ladies and Gentlemen of thel9.

Senate. Committee Amendment No. 1, is a reduction amendment20.

changing contractual servicea . putting back into contractual

services those people originally in contractual, but #Lt inEo

personal services by the House. The reason for this, was so

that these people these particular functions terminate will24.

not have been personal service employees, but contractual, and25.

I would move adoption of AmendmenE No. 1.26. . .



the adoption of Amendment No. l to House Bill 1656. Those in29.

favor will say Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment30.

No. l is adopted. Any further Amendments?

SECRETARY:32.

Committee Amendment No. 2.33.

38

t. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Carroll.

). SENATOR CARROLL:

4. Thank you, Mré' President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of

5. the Senate. This would reappropriate the bond funds by

6. category rather than lump sum, lowering *he reappropriation

7. to comply with the lastest...EPA records, and to appropriate

g new bond funds by category rather than lump sum. I would move

9 adoption of Amendment No. 2.

lc PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)

Is there further discussion? not; Senator Carroll1l.

moves Ehe adoption of Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 1656.l2.

Those in favor will indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed.l3.

The Ayes have it. Amendment No. 2 is adopted. Any furtherl4.

amendments?l5.

SECRETARY:l6.

Committee Amendment No.l7.

'


Senator Carroll.l9.

SENATOR CARROLL:2û.

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the2l.

Senate. This amendment would add the State's share, twelve and22.

a half percent of *he Planning Commission's match to receive

Federal 208 Funds, in those three planning agencies that receive..

these types of funds, and the other areas of the State, the25.

State picks up the entire tab for this, and in the spirit of26.

compromise and summit, we included greater Egypt in this grant.27.


Is there further discussion? If noty Senator Carroll29.

moves the adoption of Amendment No. 3 to House Bill 1656.30.

Those in favor signify by saying Aye. Those opposed. The3l.

Ayes have it. Amendment No. 3 is adopted. Any further amend-32.

ments?

39

1. SECRETARY:

2. No further committee amendments.



5. SECRETARY:

6. Amendment No. 4 offered by Senator Carroll.

7 PRESIDING OEFICER: (SENATOR SAVIKCAS)

a Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL;9.

Well, Ehank you. This is a restoration amendment, ofl0.

a hundred and thirty Ehousand, five hundred dollars. Afterll.

discussions with the department as to its priorities, it is

to...an attempt to avoid conference and to resolve the problem.l3.

We are restorihg the amendment, I assume this, Mr. Secretary,l4.

is on page 2 line 6, by deleting two million, two, four, nine,l5.

okay, and I would move adoption of the amendment.l6.


Is there furth#r discussion? If not, Senator Carrolll8.

moves the adoption of Amendment No. 4 to House Bill 1656.l9.

Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The20.Ayes have it. Amendment No. 4 is adopted. Any further amend-

ments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 5 offered by Senator Bruce.24.


Senator Bruce. Senator Bruce on the Floor? Senator Bruce26.

on the Flöor?27.

SENATOR BRUCE:28.

Thank you, Mr. Presidenty and members of the Senate. This29.

would add twelve thousand, seven hundred...twelve million, seven30.

hundred and seventy thousand dollars to...to the anti-pollution3l.

fund, for Enviromental Protection Agency, planning, financing,32.

and construction of municipal sewer plants, where there is a33.

40

health hazard. As you may recall, for several years, we have

2. had this in the budgeE. It was taken out...in one year the

3. Thompson administration it was in, and another year it was out.

4. the Department of.- we have had legislation pass this Body

5. already, which authorizes the expenditure of the money,

6. towns involved are all small in nature, and the additional money

7. would be placed and used to fund these smaller communities that

g. have little or no 'hope of getting on to the major priority list,: but they have been certified by the Department of Public Hea1th

yû as being health hazard grants. I'd move the adoption of Amendment

No . 5 .

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS )l 2 .Is there furthër discussion? Senator Carroll .l 3

.

SENATOR CARROLL :l 4 .

Thank you , Mr . President , and Ladies and Gentlemen of thel 5 .

Senate . I rise in opposition to this amendment . This is al 6 .

twelve million , seven hundred and seventy thousand add on , be-l 7 .

ond the p'riority list , while many of these projects are consideredyl 8 .worthwhile p we have been attempting to keep our spending within

the State ' s ability to spend , and not overspend the available

resources . I have personally always f e1t that the only way to2 l .

present any type of meaningf ul tax relief to the citizenss of Illinois2 2 .

is to also watch our spending , and not. throw everything on the2 3 .

Governor '.s Desk , and I think this twelve htillion dollars2 4 .

would be an additional amount khat we cannot at this time af f ord2 5 .

even though t.hey would be bond f unds Ehey would have to be paid2 6 .

back in the f uture , and I would oppose this amendment.2 7 .

PRES IDING OFFICER : (SENATOR SAVICKAS )2 8 .

Is there f urther discussion? Senator Sommer .2 9 .

SENATOR SOMMER :

Senator Bruce z could you indicate where these projects* would be? Our list is shuf f 1ed in the papers somewhere .

3 2 .PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR SAVICKAS )3 3

.

41

Senator Bruce.

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

SENATOR BRUCE:

If I might just read them, they're Broton, Compton, Fildon,Little Swan Lake, Loraine, Nelsonu Newman, Nolomis, Orient, Pitts-

burg, Pulaski, Ruma, and Ohlman. understand al1 of these

projects are in towns probably of a thousand or less, and

understand that Public Hea1th is coming out with a new list.

There will be an addition of about three communities, but

those that are on this list, will stay on the list.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Is there further discussion? Senator Sommer.

SENATOR SOMMER:

Well, it seems Eo me thak we could support this at this

time, until we examine frankly, this something we haven't

examined, but at this time we will suppork it, believe.


Is there further discussion? Senator Carroll for the

second time.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Just a question of Senator Sommers' comment. If he's saying

it's and administrative proposal- .administration proposal, I

have no objections.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Sommer.

SENATOR SOMMER:

It is my understanding, I just don't know anything about

this amendment, came up on us today, ahd I would like to

examine it. Can we put on, and look at it?


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

My only objection before had been overspendinc the Governor's

request. If his party want's it put on, I of course support

the position.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

42

t. FRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

2. Question is on the adoption of Amendment No. 5 to House

3. Bill 1656. Those in favor will indicate by saying Aye. Those

4. opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment No. 5 is adopted. Any

5. further amendmenEs?

6. SECRETARY:

7 No further amendments.

g PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

3rd reading. House Bill 2004: Senator Lemke. Senator

Lemke, House Bill 2004. House Bill 2098, Senator Regner.l0.

Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.ll.

SECRETARY:l2.

House Bill 2098.l3.

( Secretary reads title of bill )l4.

2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations 11l5.

offers two amendments.


Senator Buzbee.l8.

SENATOR BUZBEE:l9.

Thank you, Mr. President. Amendment No. cuts million20.

dollars, added by the House for community service grants in2l.

region lB. Number two it restores twelve funds funding...twelve22.

months funding for khe central office. The House in their23.

wisdom had only funded the central office for six months. Number24.

three, it reduces *he operation sections of the bill, by one25.

million, three hundred twenty-six thousand, six hundred dollars26.

in General Revenue. These cuts are in addition to the two

million, three hundred and seventy-three thousand, four huhdred28.

GR reductions made by the House. For a total cut of three million29.

seven hundred thousand dollars in operations. Al1 but one hundred30. ' .

forty-nine thousand dollars of this is in 'Personal Services, and3l.

related accounts, and I would move its adoption.32.


43

Is there further discussion? Tf not, Senator Buzbee

2. moves the adoption of Amendment No. 1 to House Bill 2098.

3. Those in favor will indicate.by say Aye. Those opposed.

4. The Ayes have it. Amendment No. l is adopted. Any further

5 amendments?

6. SECRETARY:

7 committee Amendment

: PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Buzbee.9.

SENATOR BUZBEE:l0.

Thank you, Mr, President. No. 2 transfers five hundred

eighty-seven thousand, three hundred dollars of General Revenue,l2. .

as follows, DD persons private facilities, five hundred andl3.

fourteen thousand. MI, children private facilities, sixty14.

thousand five hundred. MI, persons private facilities, twelve15. .

thousand, three hundred, from the DD community service grants,16.

of five hundred eighty-seven thousand, three hundred. Thisl7. .

transfer allows residential schools a percent rate in-l8.

crease which was approved by the Purchase Care Rate Review '

Board. The offset is from the per diem supplementation of

the specialized living centers; because they are not op'ening on2l.

time. The amount Grant and Aid Tacilities receive. .'

.22.will not be affected by the transfer of Federal grants to

23. 'State facilities, is increasing a hundred and fifty-nine

24. .thousand, two hundred dollars more than originally expected

.25.This amendment also increases Federal project lines by this26

.

amount.u The changes for each facility is atkached, and I would27.

move its adoption.28.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senakor Buzbee moves30.

the adoption of Amendmenk No. 2 to House Bill 2098. Those in3l.

favor will say Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment32.

No. 2 is adopted. Any further amendments?33.

44

SECRETARY :

2 No further committee amendments.


4 Any amendments from the Floor?

5 SECRETARY:


PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICEAS)7.

Senator Carroll.8.

SENATOR CARROLL:9.

Thank...excuse me. Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladiesl0.

and Gentlemen of the Senate. Amendment No. 3 is a result ofll.

some questioning in committee, of the Director of the Departmen:l2.

of Mental Hea1th. He had indicated for FY 979, many of thel3.

complaints that a 1ot of us received from our community basedl4.

mental health facilities that they were not being adequatelyl5.

funded, especially in Region 2. Doctor De Vito stated thatl6.

the reason for that, was that he was putting the thrust of the17.

dollars into the State run institutions, and therefore: thel8.

Region's bottom line did not allow for adequate funding of thel9.

community base. Tn one of the prior amendments to this bill20.

for FY '80, we have, in fact, reduced the funding to the State2l.

owned facilities in Region 2: and elsewhere, and therefore, I22.

felt and other members that we should provide a dollar for dollar23. .

return of those monies into the Regions for the eommunity24.

based facilities. This is an attempt not to add additional25.

dollars, but to say as Doctor De Vito said last year, last year26.

the thrusk was on State owned institutions. This year we're

reducing the State owned we should put them into the community28.

based facilities, so within each region there will be no loss29.

of dollars in the MI Program to service our constituents, and30.

I would move adoption of Amendment No. 3.31.


Is there furkher discussion? Senator Buzbee.33.

45

1.

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l6.

l8.

l9.

2û.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank you, Mr. President. On of khe very, very rare

times, Senator Hall will be gald to hear thak the big

4 are spliE. I rise in opposition. rise in opposition to

my seatmate's amendment. For the first time in five years, I

supported this year, an increase in developmental disability

grants, dollars. You'll recall this is a perennial fight

we have, whatever we put in there is not enough. Whatever

amounts we add Ehe lobbyists are always there saying we need

more. had never...l had never supported that position in

the past, however, I did this year on the basis of test-

imony given in sub-committee. As a matter of fact, I refused

to speak to the lobbyist beforehand because I jusE got tiredof being lobbied all the time on that issue, and said you'll

all have your chance ko have your say in the committee, in

the sub-committee, which Ehey did, and in the sub-committee

hearing I became convinced that the developmentally disabled

grant lines were not sufficient this year and, in fact, did

support an addition that they had requested, but at no time

did we have testimony that the.- mentally i1l grants people

wanted to have an increase over the amount that was in thier

budget, and then after we supported the DD increase, suddenly

the MI people came up and said we how about us. After all

you ought to give us some more if you're going to give them

some more, and they had not built the case, T did not think.

Now I know that that is not khe reason Senator Carroll put

this amendment in. He put this amendment in becasue he,

fact, does believe that there needs to be more money in those

grant items for MI, but until they have made their case and...

and built it to me, it seems that we should not support this

amendment at this time.


Is there furkher discussion? The Associated Press wishes to

46

:. take some still photographs. Is leave granted? Leave is

2. granted. Senator Regner.

3. SENATOR REGNER:

Question of the sponsor.


6. He indicates he will yield.

7 SENATOR REGNER:

g Senator Carroll, are these funds specified for any

particular area? I think you know what I1m geEting at,

lc Region 2, mainly and a little bit of Region IB have been

tremendously shortchanged by the agency over the years,11.

and that's why I'm asking the question, whether it'sl2.

earmarked or just thrown into the whole pot for them?l3.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l4

.

Senator Carroll.l5.

SENATOR CARROLL :

Thank you, Mr. Presijent. First I might mention, especiallyto Senator Hall. We had talked about having a summit meeting18

.

of the big 4 on this. We couldn't decide whether it wasl9.

going to be Cairo, Illinois or Cairo, Egypt. Either Cairo or20.

Cairo was acceptable. No this is not specified by Region, but2l.

it is because of the concerns and testimony we have heard from22.

the various community, based facilities , khat they have, in fact,23.

be short changed, especially in Region 2, and especially in24.

Region 1B. We have some comxunication with *he director, since25.

that's where we will be taking the money from the State owned26.

institutions, that khat's where it will be spent in the community

based facilities.28.


Is there further discussion? Senator Carroll.30.

SENATOR CARROLL:31.Assuming no other, to close, Mr. President.

32.PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)3 3 . 3.

You may close.

47

SENATOR CARROLL:

2. A11 righk, as Senator Buzbee said, not because

of the lobbyists or any other for MI or DD that we should be

4. making.- we, in fact, are making these decisions. I don't be-

lieve in it as an us verses them' as they sometimes approach

6. it. That should not be,iand hopefully will not be where

7 we are at, but, in fact, last year, the Ml's did not get money

8 in the community based facilities, because Ehe department

: thought it more important to spend money in Tinley Park, et

cetera, et cekera, in what they.- are the State owned in-

situtions. This year, we.- since we are taking the money out

of the SEate owned institutions, it was my feeling, at least:l2.

that we should leave the bottom line the same, and therebyl3.

spend the monies in the community based facilities, so thatl4.

we can provide dollar for dollar, the type of mental healthl5.

care, that the citizens of our State need and, in fact, deserve,16.

and I would move adoption of Amendment No.l7.


Senator Carroll moves the adoption of Amendment No. 3 to

House Bill 2098. Those in favor will signify by saying Aye.20.

Those opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment No. 3 is adopted.

Any' further amendments?22.

SECRETARY:23.

Amendment No.4 offered by Senator Buzbee.24. .

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)2b.

Senator Buzbee.26.

SENATOR BUZBEE:27.

Thank you, Mr. President. Yes...no, Senator Carroll it does28.

not follow that you ought to have to oppose me ou this-- on my29.

amendment. It's not...it's not part of the program. This30.

amendment restores the appropriations for the regionalioffices

in the Department of Mental Healthyat the following levels,32.

which, by the way, is ninety-nine thousand, seven hundred33.

48

1. dollars below the introduced...introduced amount to keep

2. khem...within Ge seven percent guideline. It restores

3. total of three million, six hundred sixty-nine thousand

4. three hundred dollars. The amendment also deletes the one

5. million, four hundred fifty-five...four hundred fifty thousand

6. dollars, added by the House for community monitoring and

7. evaluation. It restores the funding of a Business Admin-

g istrator, 2 at Anna, and ik cuts a carpenter position at

: Bowen, added by the House. This was the acEion that had

lc been taken by the House, in particular one legislator

there and we indicated to the department, as soon as theyll.

got their problems ironed out with him that kle would, in12.

fact, add these dollars back on the Floor, and so thisl3.

is in keeping, they now have their problem straightened

out with him, and this is in keeping with...with thatl5.

word, and I would move its adoption.l6.


Is there any further discussion? If not, Senatorl8.

Buzbee moves the adoption of Amendment No. 4 to House19.

Bill 2098. Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those20.

opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendmenk No. 4 is adopted.2l.


SECRETARY:23.



3rd reading. House Bill 2425, Senator Schaffer. Read26.

the bill, Mr. Secretary.27.

SECRETARY:28.

House Bill 2425.29.


2nd reading of the bill. No committee amendments.3l.P RESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

32.Senator Schaffer...any amendments from the Floor?

33.

49

t. SECRETARY:

2. Amendment No. 1 offered by Senator Schaffer.


4. Senator Schaffer.

5. SENATOR SCHAFFER:

6. Well, being Programmed at the moment, and I understand

7. that I am to withdraw this amendment: because the

g ''Democrats''have another amendment. Is Ehat correct Democrats?

Yes, ik is, and in that case I withdraw the amendment, and

lc Comply to my programming.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)ll.

Is there any further amendments?l2.

SECRETARY:l3.

No further amendments.l4.


Senator Carroll for what purpose do you rise?l6.

SENATOR CARROLL:

The confusion, Senator Schaffer was because of whetherl8.

this was addiEional funds or replacement funds. These are19.

new Federal funds. We have asked for some data and in/ormation20.

from this commission, which would go from forty-five dollar21.

expense to a million, seven, so apparently the amendments are22.

still being computed. If you wouldn't mind moving the bill to 3rd23.

we could bring it back at some other time.24.


SenaEor Schaffer.26.

SENATOR SCHAFFER:

Welly as long as it's only Federal funds, there for a29.

second T though you were kalking about taxpayer/ money. Okay.29.


Are there any...senator Carroll.31.

SENATOR CARROLL:32.

Yes, your amendment was to add Federal funds. We were33.

50

1. trying Eo see if we could save some State funds and just

2. replace them.


4. Are there any further amendments?

5 SECRETARY:


P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

g 3rd reading. House Bill 2427, Senator Sommer. Read* I


SECRETARY:l0.

House Bill 2427.1l.

Secretary reads title of bill

2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on AppropriaEions Il3.

offers five amendments.l4.


Senator Carroll.l6.

SENATOR CARROLL:l7.


the Senate. This is the Capital Development .Board's new19.construction monies and the first amendment, the committee20

.

amendment is a merely reduction of seven-six million dollars.

Let me start off by stating as we had alluded to earlier

today. It was the decision of the majority of the members:

probably on both sides of aisle, that we just cannot come24.

in a billion dollars over a Governor's proposal and claim we2b.

have been fiscally responsible. We have t'aken. *he posture of26.

therefore, keeping within Ehe dollar amounts, khat are 'truly27. .

available, with available revenues to do b0th bonding and general28.

revenue type activities. We have suggested to the various29.

members who have special interest in special projects thaE30.

are. over and above those dollar amounts, to find some 'other3l.

project to pull out, if they can get agreements so to do, and32. .

replace it dollar for dollar rather than go beyond what is truely33.

available revenues for us to be expending: and this amendment

51

I is in that line. We have...excuse me...we have,in fact,

cut out some seventy-five million .dollars that was added2.

by the House. I can go through the details of that amend-3.

ment, of what we have, in fact, reduced: we did, in fact,4.

add some income projects, and the Children's Hospital School5.

Project, and S.andburg Community College Project, and I would6.

rather than take the time now Eo go through the list, answer7.question on what had been the sub-committee report on

8.capital, adopted it âs amendment No. 1.

9.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

l0.Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll

1l.moves Ehe adoption of Amendment No. 1 to House Bill 2427.

l2.Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The

l3.Ayes have Amendmenk adopted. Any further amend-

14.ments?

l5.SECRETARY:

l6.Committee Amendment No.


Senator Carroll.19.

SENATOR CARROLL:20.

Thank youy Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of2l.

the Senate. This is a construction defectslùmp sum amend-22. '

ment, of a million seven hundred, and seventy-six thousand23.

dollars. There have been in the case of many- .especially24.

the community colleges, construction defects that they25.

then go back to CDB, and say replace the roof or whatever,26. ' '

rather than have al1 *he members fighting on the Floor27.

constantly as to'which community colleges should or should28.

noE be involved. We have given CDB alump. sum that would then29.

be usable in an emergency bases to talk care of the needs30.

during the entire fiscal year without having to come back for3l.

a special appropriation for each of these- .leaky roofs, et32.

cetera, and emergency type problems. I would move adoption33.

of Amendment No.

52

PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)

Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll2.


Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The4.

Ayes hàve it. Amendment No. 2 is adopted. Any further amend-

ments?

SECRETARY:7.



Senator Carroll.l0.

SENATOR CARROLL:ll.


the Senate. This is a language change on a sewer treatmentl3.

plant. There is no dollar change. is for Vandalia -correctionall4.

Center and I would move adoption of Amendment No.l5.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll


Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed . Thel9.

Ayes have Amendment No. is adopted. Any further amend-20.

ments?2l.

' SECRETARY:22.

Committee Amendment No.23.


Senakor Carroll.25.

SENATOR CARROLL:26.

Thank you, Mr. President. This is a rehabilitation money27.

for Vandalia Power Plant, and I would move adoption of Amend-28.

ment No. 4.29.


Is there further discussion? If not', Senator Carroll3l.


Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The33.

Ayes have Amendmenk No. 4 is adopked. Any further amendmenks?

53

l SECRETARY:

2 Committee Amendment No.

) PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Carroll.4.

SENATOR CARROLL:5.Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of6

.

the Senate.' This is an addition for the vocational building7.

at the school for the deaf in Jacksonville. There is no

dollar change, and I would move adoption of Amendment No. 5.9.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carrollll.

moves the adoption of Amendment NO. 5 to House Bill 2427.12.

Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. Thel3.

Ayes have it. Amendment No. 5 is adopted. Any furtherl4.

amendments?l5.

SECRETARY:l6.

No further committee amendments.l7.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOF SAVICKAS)l8.

Any amendments from Ehe Floor?l9.

SECRETARY:20.

Committee...Floor Amendment No. offered by Senàtor Rock.


Senator Rock.23.

SECRETARY :24.

It...it did have your name on it, Senator Carroll. I25.

was told Eo change it. It consists Of twO lines on page l by26.

deleting line27.


Senator Carroll.29.

SENATOR CARROLL:30.

This is sixty-five thousand dollars for the court'of claims3l.

for their new building to CDB. Apparently, Space Needs has32.

determined that's the amount of monieé is necessary to33.

put the building in shape for the new chief justice, so that he

54

is adequately accommodate'd in this new space, and I would- .on

behalf of Senator Rock move adoption of Amendment No. 6.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)4. senator Carroll moves.- is there further discussion? If

5. not, senator Carroll moves the adoption of Amendment No. 6

6. to House Bill 2427. Those in favor indicate by saying Aye.

Those opposed. The Ayes have Amendment No. 6 is adopted.

8. Any further amendments?

9. SECRETARY:

l0. Floor Amendment No. 7 offered by Senator Sommer.


Senator Sommer.12.

la SECRETARY:

14 Senator Sommer, on page 21 and 22, by deleting all of

ls Section 23.1, and on page.- are you going Eo hold that one?


Senator Sommer.l7.

lg SENATOR SOMMER:

Mr. President, and members. What this does, is itl9.

reduces to zero, the monies in this bill for two very expensive20.

new a initiative s. One is 'private higher education buildings.

We're going to get into the business of building buildings

for private colleges, something wefve never done, and second

. . .second protion of this is to reduce monies ko zero for the24.

constructions of libraries. Now if you want to see an expensive25.

program, think how many libraries. there are in this State. There26.

must be more than a thousand of them. don't know, and we27.

would get to build each and everyone of them, and this is28.

just the first skep in b0th inskances, of a tremendous expend-29.diture, and webre Erying to, at this point in time, reject thèse30

.

expenditures, and this amendment reduces them b0th to zero.3l.


Is there further discussion? Senator Maragos.33.

55

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

l1.

l2.

SENATOR MARAGOS:

No wait a minute.


Senator Sommer.

SENATOR MARAGOS:

Okay. Senator Sommer, I know youdre a little younger than

I am, buE you still probably have gone to many small towns

throughout the courtry. When you see Ehe Carnegie Library

was established in the small hamlets, and now many of those

libraries are in need of much help, and especially the big

research libraries, like in Chicago, which need a 1ot of help.

How are you going to replace those facilities or keep them up

in good shape, you...if your amendment passes?


Senator Carroll...or I mean Senator Sommer.

SENATOR SOLU ER:

would suggest, Senator Maragos, that some communities

have built new libraries and they do it themselves. They donlt

come running dow here.


Senator Maragos.

SENATOR MARAGOS:

Those are the libraries that are contained within their

own localities or communities, thàt don't have other people

from areas coming in, but when you have big research libraries

throughout the SEate, that are.v.give service not only to the

people within their boundaries but throughout the State, in fact,

sometimes throughout the country don't you think they should be

funded by the State of Illinois?


Senator Sommer.

SENATCR SOMMER:

No.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Who's the sponsor of this amendment?

l4.

15.

16.

17.

18.

l9.

20.

21.

23.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

56

Senator Maragos.

SENATOR MARAGOS:

Close...in closing, Mr. President, and members of the3.

Senate. I think one of the fundamental areas of education4.

is a good library system, and sometimes we are being penny wise5.

and pound foolish in Ehis area and I ask you to not support

this amendment.


Further discussion? Senator Buzbee.9.

SENATOR BUZBEE:l0.

Thank you, Mr. President. rise in support of this

amendment. The two new initiatives wedre taking here, asl2.

Senator Sommer very accurately pointed out: is going to getl3.

the State of Illinois into a business in which we havel4.

never been before, two businesses. One is we're going tol5.

be building every public library in this State, is going16.

to come in and say I got to have a new building, now I thinkl7.

I am as much of an appreciator of books and libraries as any-l8.

body else in here, but the facE of the matter is, we're going

to start getting into municipalities now, and into library2 () .

districts building them library buildings, and we're going

to be paying for We're going to be paying the bonds over22.

the next twenty-five years. We're going...this is a five23.

million dollar appropriation this year, next year it will come24.

back at fifteen or twenty, and then from then on it's just25. ' '

going to explode. The other area that we're getting into is26.

building buildings for private higher education, and 1et me27. '

tell you that the way that the legislation that is bringing about28.

this, bringing this about is wriEen, it gives those private29.

education facilities priority over public education facilities.30.

Now...

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)32.

Senator, your time has expired.33.

57

1. SENATOR BUZBEE:

2. Thank you, Mr. President. I just think this is

3. a good amendment, and it ought to be adopted.


5. Is there further discussion? Senator Rock.

6. SENATOR ROCK:

7. Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of

g the Senate. I rise in opposition to Amendment No. 7. Both

9 of these programs, frankly, are contained in sub#gntivç bills

yc that are currently on our Calendar, and it seems to me at

l this point to be a little premature , to be deleting thel .

money for proposals that we ' ve not yek acted upon . T ,thinkl 2 .

the proposals are good ones , I think the money ought to bel 3 .

there , and I would urge opposition to M endment No .l 4 .

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l5.

Senator Carroll.16.

SENATOR CARROLL:l7.

Thank you, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. mightl8.

add that if you don't like this version, Senator Sommer hasl9.

a few other versions filed, that would separate between library20.

grants and private higher ed grants. So this one is the one Ehat's

trying to do them both at once, r d if Ehat's not successful, I22.

would assume he would then try and go separately with eaeh,23.

cause he's filed those already. I am in support of these two24.

programs, and therefore opposed to Senator Sommer's amendment.25.

I think we have to recognize in both of these areas that this26.

has become an important State funetion. We have, in fact, been27.

providing al1 types of funding to private higher education, in28.

order to educate the students of Illinois. The least we can29.

do is also 1et them in on some of these bond funds as long30.

as khey are separate and distinct from what, fact, the

priority list of general higher education, and that is sub-32.

stantive legislation is moving along this process so to!3.

58

I don't think anybody should be questioning the need to

help the libraries of our municipalities State-wide in providing

an adequate libraries for Ehe people of this State. That always

should have been a State funded project to provide for cenEers4.

of learning througout the State of Illinois, and again there5.

is substantive legislation moving through this Chamber

that will provide for that. It just seems to me logical that7.

at this point in time we provide some funds, and we did re-8.duce the requests in both of these items. In one case from

9.ten million to one, and the other from five to three.

l0.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator, #our seatmate is...l2.

SENATOR CARROLL:l3.

Is telling me my time is up. The point only is, ifl1.

the substantive legislation fails then this money shouldl5.

come out, but while it's still moving alonq the money should16.

stay in.l7. .

FRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l8.

Further discussion? Senator Shapiro.

SENATOR SHAPIRO:

Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

I think this is a good amendment, particularly in view of22.

the fact, Ehat I think this General Assembly ought to be23.

taking stock of where it's going in the issuance of bonds,24.

whether it's for Capital Development, highways or what have25.

you, and to embark upon two new Capital Development programs,26.

one for private higher education, and the other for library27.

Crnstruction grants at this particular time I think is premature,28.

and I would urge everyone to vote for the amendment.29.


Senator Bloom.

SENATOR BLOOM:32.

Well, no 6ne qurrels with the logic, Senator Carroll, it's

just with the premise that captial expenditures for libraries and privake

59

higher education, it is now elevated to God, motherhood, and

apple pie, and the agurment of Senator Rock, that it would2.

be premature to deleEe money, wedve heard the flip side out).

of his mouth many times, as well as yours, Senator Carroll, séying4.

it would be premature to include money when the substantive5.

legislation hasn't passed. would urge support of the amend-6.

ment.7.

PRESIDING OFFICER:' (SENATOR SAVICKAS)8.

Is there further discussion? Senator Bruce.9.

SENATOR BRUCE:l0.

Thank you, Mr. President, and members of the Senate.ll.

I rise in support of this amendment which will deleEe money12.

going to private colleges. I keep reminding all of us thatl3.

the last election should have told us that, don't launch anyl4.

new...more...more new programs, and this is certainly a newl5.

capital program and as Senator Shapiro so aptly pointed ouEl6.

it is : bonded program, when we should be reviewing how many

bonds we are issuing, and secondly I think we ought to take18.

a look at what is going to happen ko public school education

higher education, if we allow money that is earmarked for

public buildings to be used by private colleges. It jusk seems2l.

to mè that that is not the appropriate kay to go, we are cuttinq22.

back dramatically on construction on the public area right now,23.

and to open up a brand new area of private schools, it just24.

seems to me the wrong approach at this time.25.


Is there further discussion? If not, SenaEor Sommer may27.

close the debake.28.

SENATOR SOMMER :29.

Mr'. President, and members. Right now we know about30.

a hundred and seventy-four million dollars worth of these3l.

projects are tickeked to go. You add the debt service, that's32.

over three hundreé million dollars, and those are the ones we33. '

know about. This is very expensive if we get into this new endeavor

60

and I urge everyone to vote Yes on this amendment, and delete

2 the funds.


Question is, shall- .senator Sommer moves to adopt

Amendment No. to House Bill 2427. Those in favor indicate5.

by saying Aye. Those opposed. Those opposed. Roll call6.

has been requested. Those in favor of adopting Amendment No. 77.

to House Bill 2427, will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote8.

Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have all9.

voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, the Ayesl0.

are the Nays are None Voting Present. Amendment No.ll.

7 havihg received the majority is declared passed. Any furtherl2.

amendments?

SECRETARY:. l4.

Floor Amendment No. 8 offered by Senator Philip.l5.


For what purpose does Senator Graham arise?l7.

SENATOR GRAHAM:l8.

I would like to rise, before we start another fightl9.

for the purpose of an introduction. In the gallery behind20.

me, in a burgundy dress, so you'll a11 recognize her, is21.

Dorothy Snow Findley, a member of our Adult Parole System,22.

and she is from Lockport, Illinois. I would like for Dorothy

to stand and be recognized.



SECRETARY:27.

Amendment No. 8 offered by Senator Philip.28.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR S/VICKAS)29.

Senator Philip. Could we have a little order and break up30.

our .conferences We have a few more amendments on the bill,yet.3l.

Senator Philip.32.

SENATOR PHILIP:

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of khe

61

Senate. This amendment adds million dollars for a

2 learning resource cenEer, for Dupage County. The rational

) is, it's one of the largest junior colleges in the State

of Illinois. It's one of the few junior colleges that's4.up in enrollment, Ehey have a Federal grant pending. hate5

.

to say it, it's for ten years going on eleven years of one6.

million dollars. If they don't start construcEion by September7.

of 78 they're going to loose that grant. If there are any8.

questions 1'11 be happy to answer them.9.

P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICEAS)l0.

Is there further discussion? Senator Maragos. Senator Carroll.ll.

SENATOR CARROLL:l2.

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of

the Senate. I rise in opposition to this amendment, and letl4.

em explain why, on these and others. I think the Board of Higherl5.

Ed did a masterful job in creating their priority list byl6.

taking the five construction projects and putting Ehem outsidel7.

the list hoping that the members would tack those onpsomel8.

thrity-six million dollars to the Governor's Budget. They19.

stopped at rehab and renovation, Dupage is next up on the lisk.20.

Then if I recall comes Danvillezthen one in my district, Oakton,2l.

then SIU Edwardsville, and then NorEh Eastern Illinois University22.

in my district. We have had discussions with the Governor on23.

several occasions and with BHE, and on why they had done this,24.

and what should happen for next year. Logic dictates, that

these five projects are not funded this year, because they are26. '

not within the Governor's level, and we fund everything above27. '

them, they will become one, two, three, four, and five next year,28.

and get their funding at that time within the Governor's Budget.29.

We have indicated to BHE if they don't do that we will be doing30.

that, because logic does dictate they move up. I think we cannot3l.

overspend the Governor in this or any of these other projects.32. .

think it is important if we are going to give tax relief, once

again, we do not throw millions, and millions, and millions of dollars

62

onto his desk over our available revenue, and I would oppose

this.2.


Senator would you bring your remarks to a close. Senator

Buzbee.5.

SENATOR BUZBEE:6.

Thank you: Mr. President. This is an addition of eleven7.

million, one hundred and ninety thousand dollars unbudgeted or8 '

as much as may be necessary for the college of Dupage for con-9.

struction . We a1l have several projects in our respective10 .

reas that we would like to see built , including one in mya11 .

town, where there in f act , a going classroom building thatl 2 .

is literally f alling apart . I had a bill into attempt to correct

thak , and knew that it didn 1 t have much chance of passage # and,l 4 .

in f act, did not . It , however , was almost as high on the priority

list as the project that Senakor Philip wants to get added here .l 6 .

I think to . . . f or the sake of consistency , we ought to kill of17. '

those projects, which are unbudgeted. I know that very powerfull8.

interests are concerned about this, including the Speaker ofl9.

the House, but I can't get my project through, because it's not20.

budgeted and I understand that. I donît think anybody else ought2l.

to qet their project through that's not budgeted, and I think we22.

ought to just kill this right now.23.


Is there further discussion? Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:26.

A question of the sponsor of the amendment. Senator Philip27.

isn't if true that if we delay this any longer the project does,28.

in fact, become more expensive, because of the loss of Federal29.

funds?30.

P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)3l.

Senator Philip.32.

SENATOR PHILIP :

Senator Rhoads, that's absolutely correct. As I stated

63

I in my opening statements. they don't have by september

of this year, sEart to do something, they will loose one2.

million dollars Federal funds. On top of that, in our area3.

we have a very much of a lu1l in construction. We have architects:4.

engineers, constuction outfits are just looking for jobs, and5.

this is probably be one of the most competitive bid we've ever6.

had in the history of our junior college system.7.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICEAS)8.

Senakor Bruce.9.

SENATOR BRUCE:l0.

Thank you, Mr. President, and members of the Senate.ll.

rise in support of this amendment. The Community College

Board has approved this project. It was the second highestl3.

project on the CDB, capital program for this year. think wel4.

ought to move along with it. They are certainly in need ofl5. .

a campus, they are in need of the construction involved here.l6.

I see no reason why we can not afford the project, particularlyl7.

when CDB says itîs the second most important project to themyiu18.

the StaEe of Illinois, and I would urge support and adoption ofl9.

this amendment.20.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)2l.

Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Philip may22.

close the debate.

SENATOR PHILIP:24.

Thank you, Mr. President: and Ladies and Gentlemen of25.

th@ Senate. I think in my fourteen years down in the General26.

Assemblyr Dupage County hasn't received one cent from CDB, yek.27.

Not a penny. This the first time we've come asking, it's28.

high on the priority list, it should be on the...in the Governor's29.

Budget, in my humble judgement I would hope that we'd see a lot30.

of green lights up there.31. .


Question is, on the adoption of Amendment No. 8 to House Bill33.

2427, Senator Philip moves it's adoption. A1l those M favor will

64

indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Nays have it.

Roll call has been requested. Al1 those in favor will indicate

by voting Aye. A11 those opposed will vote Nay. The voting3.

is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have all voted who wish?4.

Take the record. On that question, the Ayes are the Nays5.

are None Voting Present. Amendment No. 8 having received6. .

the majority is declared passed. Any further amendments?7.

SECRETARY:8.

Amendment No. 9 offered by Senakor Sommer.9.


Senator Sommer.

SECRETARY:l2.

On page two, by.- deleting a11 of lines 36 and 37, andl3.

inserting in lieu thereof the following.l4.

SENATOR SOMMER:l5.

Okay; Mr. President, and members, this is simply a technicall6.

amendmentz and I urge its adoption.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l8. .

there further discussion? Tf not, Senator Sommer moves

the adoption of Amendment No. to House Bill 2427. Those in20.

favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have

it. Amendment No. 9 is adopted. Any further amendments?22.

SECRETARY:23.

Amendment No. 10 offered by Senator Weaver.24.


Senator Weaver.26. .

SENATOR WEAVER:27.

Thank you, Mr. President. Amendment No. 10 would restore28.

8.2 million to the Food Research Capital Construction Program.29.

All Ehese items were recommended by the Board of Higher Education.30.

The Governor is behind this program unfortunately there was a3l.

figure that was left out of the budget, that may be negotiable32.

this amendment will take care of maybe several other amendments33.

that are on the Secretary's Desk, but is the total program

65

l recommended by the Board of Higher Education, and move

its adoption.2.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)).

Is there further discussion? Senator Carroll.4.

SENATOR CARROLL:5.

Thank you, Mr. Presidentr and Ladies and Gentlemen of6.

Ehe Senate. rise in opposiEion of this eight million, two7.

hundred and fifty-eight, nine hundred and seven-five thousand8.

dollar addition to Ehe Governor's Budget. The Governor said9.

he was in favor of food for Century and then decidedl0.

not to put it in his budget, and I don't think we should bell.

adding monies to his budget and causing the taxpayers tol2.

spend monies that did not receive a high enough placementl3.

on his priority list to be placed in the budget as presenEed tol4.

us by His Excellency the Goverpor. I remind the members againl5.

that if we are qoing to overspend in capital it is still tax-l6.

payers money that repays these monies. If we are going to bel7. '

fiscally sound and fiscally responsible, we should be rejectingl8.

these amendments. This particular one, Senator Weaver welll9.

knows, there are a few that are fairly high on the listy just20.

below the cutoff, and there are a few that are at the very, very, very,21.

bottom of the list of priorities, where he really...to want22.

to pick up those he should have added about another hundred

million dollars of a11 those projects between, Ehat are now24.

going Eo be cut out, were this amendment adopted. don't think25.

we should be going this way, and I would urge defeat of this26.

overspending by the General Assembly.27.

P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICEAS)28.

Further discussion? Senator Buzbee.29.

SENATOR BUZBEE:30.

Thank you, Mr. President. Well, Senator Carroll is absolutely3l.

correck in that the Governors been all over the court on this32.

on# he goes al1 over the Stake telling the farming communities33.

and higher education communities that he very much favors the

66

: continuation of the Food for Century III projectszand then

2 he does not call on his budget for the necessary dollars to

even.- to even begin to spend one penny on it. so, you know,3.

thatbs.- that's kind of having your cake and eating it too.4.

I was of the mind Eo oppose this originally, because it was5.

not on the Governor's BudgeE, however, iE seems that the6.

floodgate has broken, we have just opted to spend eleven7.

million dollars for the College of Dupage. Now, it so happens8.

that these Foods for Century III projects will have some very9.

positive effects on some downstate communities, in Western10

Illinois, and Central Illinois, and in Southern Illinois, soll.

we're going to break the floodgate, I want to be a part of12.

that on rushing water,and I want to be sure and get projectsin my districts, so I'm going to support this amendment at this

l4.time.


Is there further discussion? Senator Demuzio.17.

SENATOR DEMUZIO :l8.

Yes, I'd like to ask Senator Weaver a question if hel9.

will yield.20..


He indicates he will yield.22.

SENATOR DEMUZIO:23.

Senator Weaver, there is a Ag. research project in..in Ehis24.

amendment, for West Central Illinois, is that a hundred percent

funding or is that seventy-five percent funding?26.


Senator Weaver.28.

SENATOR WEAVER:29.

Under this amendment, Senator Demuzio, it is a hundred30.

percent. I'm informed.31.


Senator Demuzio.33.

67

1. SENATOR DEMUZIO:

a Well, I've spoken with you and of course our project) that was approved last year by the General Assembly for

the same subject matter was approved at the seventy-five4.

percent level, and twenEy-five percent of those monies came5.

from the local community. think it's only right that if6.

we're going to approve such a project that too be fundedat the seventy-five percent level, and not at the one hundred8

.

percenk level and I see Senator McMillan is scratching his9.

whatever he's got over Ehere, I would be very much interestedl0.

in hearing your response.ll.


Senator McMillan.l3.

SENATOR MCMILLAN:14.

Just very briefly, the main difference is in the Northernl5.

Western Illinois Agronomy Research Center, there are twol6.

forty acre, or two twenty acre tracks of land, which are beingl7.

put with this, so it's a slightly different set up, therel8.

wasn't any land in-..in the Southern one: there is land here,l9.

so your very correct, it's a hundred percent of the amount20.

requested, but the amount requested was assuming that there

would be forty acres put with it to make it a total package.


Is there further dicussion? SenaEor,your time has24.

expired. Is there further discussion? If not.- senator Demuzio25.

for the second Eime.26.

SENATOR DEMUZIO:27.

1...1 will talk with you privately about that. just28.

don't understand the differential, cause to me, it's still a29.

hundred percent funding because apparently that was the money30.

that was approved by the Board of Higher Education, as I recall31.

correctly, so that's a hundred percent funding to me.32.


Is there further discussion? Senator Weaver may close the debate.

68

SENATOR WEAVER:

Well, thank you, Mr. President. T would just like topoint ouE, this is a continuing program that there's been3

.

dollars allocated every year to continue the whole Food4.

for Century III program. The Governor has indicated Eo me5.

yesEerday, that there are some ikems in here that he fully6.

intends to fund, now which ones, I cannot answer you, but

ulhless we have this amendment on the bill, there is no room8.

for any funding and I would hope that the Senate would approve9.

this amendment.l0.


Is there further discussion? Ifm sorry. Senator Weaverl2.


Those in favor will indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed.l4.

The Ayes have it. Amendment No. 10 is adopted. The rolll5.

call has been requested. A1l those in favor of adoptingl6.

Amendment No. 10 will vote Aye. Those opposed will votel7.

Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have a11l8.

voted who wish? Take the record. On that quesEion, thel9.

Ayes are 25, the Nays are 19. None Voting Present. Amendment

No. 10 having received a majority is declared passed. Any

further amendments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. offered by Senator Coffey.24.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)25

Senator Coffey. Senator Coffey withdraws that amendment.26.

Any further amendmenEs?27.

SECRETARY:28.

Amendment No. 11 offered by Senator Sommer.29.


Senator Sommer.

SENATOR SOMMER:32.

Would you read it Mr. Clerk.33.

69

SECRETARY:1.

Yes, on...House Bill 2...2427, by adding immediately2.

preceding section 25 ihe following: section 24.4: the sum3.

of two hundred and fifty thousand, five hundred dollars.4.


Senator Sommer.6.

SENATOR SOMMER:

This is a project requested by a House member, Representative8.

Winehester. It's two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for9. the South Eastern College resurfacing of parking lots.l0.

PRESIDING OFFICER) (SENATOR SAVICKAS)ll. Is there further discussion? Senator Carroll.l2.

SENATOR CARROLL:

It's a bad amendment.14. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l5. Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Sommer movesl6. the adoption of Amendment No. 11 to House Bill 2427. Thosel7. l

in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Naysl8. have Amendment No. 11 fails. Further amendments?l9.

SECRETARY:20. Amendment No. offered by Senator Sommer. Page 2l,2l. Line 22, by deleting a1l of Section 23.1.22. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)23.

Sena*or Sommer.24.

SENATOR SOMMER:25. Mr. Secretaryywould you withdraw that amendment, please.26.

SECRETARY:27. Amendment No. 12 offered by Senator Carroll.28. PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)29. Senator Carroll.30. SENATOR CARROLL:

3l. I assume this is the one on page 29, by deleting line 25?

32.SECRETARY:

33. Right.

70

SENATOR CARROLL:1.

Al1 right, this is an amendment to take carè of the2.

problem at the House, that is a physical rather than fiscal3.

problem. It's a fire trap, and Space . Needs has asked for five4.

hundred and sixty-five thousand ko add a fire stairwell for5.

the House side of the Capitol building, that will actually6.end up having an outlet outside the building as required by

7.the Fire Code. There was apparently a mistake when that re-

8.development of the House side was designed, and I wo uld move

9.adoption of Amendment No. l2.

l0.FRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

ll.Is there further discussion? Senator Regner.

l2.SENATOR REGNER)

l3.Wi11 the sponsor yield to a question?

l 4 . .'PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

l5.He indicate he will.

l6.SENATOR REGNER:

17.Whose House ?


l9.Senator Carroll.

20.SENATOR CARROLL:

The Dupage...speaker's House.22.


Further discussion? Senator Schaffer.24.

SENATOR SCHAFFER:25.

Senator...senator Carroll, actually that is the- .for the26.

architectural planning fees for the fire escape and actually27. I think of as implications on b0th ends of the building, al-28.

though we appear to be in better shape than the House, although29.

it's probably tacky of us to suggest that.30.


Further discussion? Senator Mitchler.32.

SENATOR MITCHLER:33. A question of Senakor Carroll. What is the Aotal cost

71

: of this fire escape?


Senator Carroll.).

SENATOR CARROLL:4.

I honestly don't recall, Senator Mitchler, and as to5.

Senator Schaffer, who may recall, also I think because we are6.

still in the rehab process here, we can make the changes as7.

the design is going along, the House having already completed8.couldn't do iE, but maybe Senator Schaffer can give the exact

9.dollar amount. don't remember.


ll. .Senator Schaffer, can you straighten them out?

12.SENATOR SCHAFFER:

l3.Senator...no I doubt it. The costs though, that relate to

l1.this are still somewhat in the air, and thatfs what part of the

l5.justification for the money that wedre asking for. There appear

16.to be two ways to go. There's the expensive way, which is quite

l7.expensive, it's eight million dollars, and involves adding twenty

l8.feet on the end of each of the ends of the Captiol Building for

19.the fire escape and it also solves some other problems. The cheap

20.way is about a million twor unfortunately that involves putting

2l.a stairwell through the middle of Governor Thompson's office,and

22.we may be forced to do it, but we'd like to consider the alternatives,

23. -so that we can convince him that the stairwell through his office

24.is necessary. I think it also goes throught Ehe Secretary of

25.State's office too, so wedre being bi-partisan.

26.PRESIDING OFFICERT' (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

27.Is there further discussion? Senator Buzbee.

28.SENATOR BUZBEE:

29.I have a question. What happens...of the sponsor. have

30.a question, what happens if we don't do this? Is khe State

3l.Fire Marshal going to close down the Capitol Building?

32.' PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)33.

Senator Carroll.

72

SENATOR CARROLL:

Very honestly, I would hope so. The State Fire Marshal2.

very appropriately at the request of the Speaker, the Speaker). .

became aware of this, and became quite concerned, and T think4.

he was right to do so. The State Fire Marshal, has not been actually

going through the State of Illinois Capitol Building, doing6.

it's surveys, until this was brought to our attention by the7.

Fire Marshal and I gupss he would have the power to close8.

this up.


Senator Buzbee, you still have some time.1l.

SENATOR BUZBEE:l2. ,

Yes, thank you. Well, I'd like to point out that thel3.

State Fire Marshal works for us, and I see no reason for usl1.

to spend eight million dollars to come into compliance withl5.

something he wants in the Capitol Building, that's taxpayerl6.

dollars. This is a pretty nice building, I think there's a

hazard anytime your inside a big building. of the possibilityl8.

of fire, but I see no reason for us to spend this kind of moneyl9.

and if the state Fire Marshal doesn't like let's just20.

fire him and get a new one.2l.

PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR SAVICKAS)22.

Senator Knuppel.23.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:24. .

Well like most mausoleium the House will have ko have25.

this or theyîll condemn it for not having a fire escape.26.


Senator Berning.28.

29.

30.

31.

32.(END OF REEL)!

'

3 3 . '

73

Reel #3

t.

concur with Senator Buzbee. This is a beautiful building.

3. We've chopped it up enough with aluminum doors at various points4. throughout the hallways and any other desecration of it

, in my

5. opinion, ought to be avoided. say we should take the bull by

6. the horns and say that we are not going to spend this money for

7. what, in my opinion, is a needless addition. We have stairways...

8. the main stairways from the second and third and we have the side

9. stairways, we have the back stairways. What more do we really need?

1c. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

ll. For the second time, Senator Mitchler.

12. SENATOR MITCHLER:

Thank you, Mr. President. The reason I asked the cost is,

14 I thought IId generate some interest in this. Just a few minutes

15 you declined to provide two million dollars to keep open a Soldierls

16 and Sailorls Children's School up in Normal and now you want to

17 spend eight million dollars and yourre really buying ''a pig in a

lg poke'' 'cause you really don't know what you're getting into. How

19 big the wing is, you may find out it goes a11 the way over to

20 Edwards and...and a11 the way across Monroe before they get through

2y with a1l this designing, but eièht million dollars for two fire-

: escapes, one at each end of the Capital Building can't justify my2 .vote and I think you ought to take a good look at this. Youdre

spending taxpayerb money. Eight million dollars will build a couple24.

of nice high schools out in your district. A couple of gradd schools25.

and I think the money ought tg be given priority.26.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)27. .

For the second time, Senator Schaffer.28.


Well, didn't want to muddy the waters and I guess it's easy30.

to do that at this' time of year. Senator Mitchler, nobody is3l.

committed to the eight million dollars. This money would...be in-32.

volved in the planning and ihe architectual studies...to allow us

SENATOR BERMAN:

74

1.

2.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

17.

l8.

l9.

20.

22.

make a decision. The Space Needs Commission will be meeting

in late August and will be proceeding on this. In the meanEime,

whether we like it or not or whether this Fire Marshal or the

next Fire Marshal likes it or not, there are office space...there

is office space in the House that the only way out is the elevator.

I mean, there are people in there that in any kind of fire condition

would be in major trouble. Senator Shapiro suggests we maybe oughtto get a gun and look for the architect that handled the rehab on

the House and maybe thatls a very appropriate suggestion, but un-

fortunately he's gone and we have a new architect, we have a...we

have our own laws to obey and we have to do something. Whether we

do it the cheapy way and tear the building asunder or go the

expensive way or do something in between, yet remains to be decided,

but obviously we've got to make the right decision and we need the...

the...


Senator Schaffer,.your time has expired.

SENATOR SCHAFFER:

. . .backup to make that decision. Support khe amendment.


For the first time, Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAHAM:

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. have

one observation or two. Ilve been here twenty-one years and I've24.

never been here during a Session that some part of this Capital

hasn't been torn up. Now, wedre remodeling now. Welre picking26. . .

up the tab for the blundering of Bobby ''Blue Eyes'' Blair when he27.

remodeled the House of Representatives and I think maybe the tax-28.

payers...the way we've been acting will be glad if the Fire 'Marshal29.

did close us up so we get out of here before midnight tonight and30.

it might do us al1 a favor.3l.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)32.

Senator Davidson for the first time.

75

SENATOR DAVIDSON:

Senator Schaffer and Senator Carroll covered the points

pretty well. The Fire Marshal came in to do the study at the

request of the Speaker of the House . I don' t knc)w how nk'my of you ever

involved in a f ire and I hope none of you were . Speaker Redmond

6 . and I b0th had a little experience of a f ew years back and most

7 . of you sitting in here my age or older participated in the same

8 . experience . That ' s why he asked for the Fire Marshal to do the

9 . study . The f if th and sixth f loor on the House end does not have

10 . normal f ire escape openings . Now: maybe you haven ' t been through

11 . some of the holocaust that he and I served on a carrier . I was

12 . and all we ' re asking for is planning money to make correct

13 . decisions and then all of you other peoplè who have been pounding

14 . the Space Needs Committee for of f ice space or additional f acilities

5 besides solving the problem to save 1if e support. . .l .

l 6 . PRESIDING OFFICER : (SENATOR SAVICM S )

17 Senator , your time has expired .

lg SENATOR DAVIDSON:

. . .there's twenty thousand square feet of office space that

20 would be involved. urge you to vote Aye.


22 Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll may

23 close the debate.

24. SENATOR CARROLL:

as Yes, I'm kind of surprised at some of the comments on this

particular amendment. We are talking about the Capital Building26.

7 of the State of Illinois and the fact that for whatever reasons2 .

the House side, which was completed was designed without adequate28.

Fire Safety Codes and we're not talking about the Fire Marshall29.

coming in and suggesting to us a11 kinds of things. He was invited30.

by us because there was not adequate exit ability of the fifth and

sixth floor on the Hcuse side as completed, nor on our own side.32.

The only reason we can correct it on our side is that we are still33.

2.

3.

4.

5.

76

1.

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

11.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

17.

18.

l9.

20.

22.

in construction. They, in fact, closed down the project on thisside because it was a hazard Eo the employees who are up there

doing the...renovations at the time. There's just no way out in

Ehe case of a fire. Now, fcr us not to say we're going to plan

and khen make available access to people in case of a fire to be

able to get out of those office spaces, then our other decision

should be to close them down, not use four, five and six on either

side of the Chambers and then find other space for everybody so

that they won't be able to be in this building, but we can't use

them unless we can provide some means for them to get out in case

of a fire. That's what this amendment starts to do and I would

urge its adoption.



House Bill 2427. Those in favor will indicate by...a roll call

has been requested. Indicate by voting Aye. Those opposed vote

Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have all voted

who wish? Take the record. On that question, the Ayes are 36,the Nays are 4, none Voting Present. Amendment No. 12 having

received the majority vote is declared passed. Any further amend-

ments?

SECRETARY:

offered by Senator Carroll.


Benator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

This the request of the Space Needs îcause it...commission for

remodeling and rehab monies at 300 West Monroe and demolition of

properties that it is acquiring and I would move adoption of

Amendment No. l3.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll moves

Amendment No.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

).

4.

5.

6.

the adoption of Amendment No. 13 to House Bill 2427. Those in


Amendment 13 is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 14 offered by Senator Shapiro.


Senator Shapiro.

SENATOR SHAPIRO:

Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. This

amendment an appropriation from the General Revenue Fund to

the Capital Development Board for the Office of the Governor for

remodeling and repair to the Governor's Capital reception area.

That's that large room right off of the Rotunda in the amount of

forty thousand dollars. I would urge its adoption.


Is there further discussion? Senator Buzbee.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank you, Mr. President. A question to the sponsor. Are we

going to do this remodeling before we put this stairway down in

through the Governcrls Office or are we going to wait until after-

wards? We're going to spend the forty thousand dollars, then come

back and tear it a1l out and put the stairway down through the

Governor's Office. Is that the way we're going to do it?


Senator Shapiro.

SENATOR SHAPIRO:

It's my understanding, Senator Buzbee, that they're just

going to be doing things like putting in carpeting, things that

can be done immediately to spruce up the room and that the stairway...

that would be put in. The fire escape would not be V fecting this

particular area.


Senator Buzbee.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

19.

20.

2l.

22.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

78

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Well, it...it's always my...senator, I'm in agreement that

the Governor's Office ought to be...look nice and I would be glad

to support such a...an appropriation, but why should we bond for

twenty-five years and pay interest on carpeting that will not

begin to last for twenty-five years?


Senator Shapiro.

SENATOR SHAPIRO :

8.

9.

l0. Senator Buzbee, it comes from General Revenue.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)ll.Senator Buzbee, your time has expired. Senator Carroll.12

.

SENATOR CARROLL:l3.

Thank you. My only concern with this...senator Buzbee saysl4.

to use my time to tell you he apologizes. My only concern with15..

this is basically two. One, if the Governor wants to remodel hisl6.

office, why didn't he put it in hip own budget. It does not belong17.

in CDB. It belongs within his own budget or within the...the building,l8.

which is the Secretary of State's building, but he didn't see fit to19.

put it in his budget so that we find it in the last hour-..tacked20.

on, hidden in the CDB amendment. The Governor should have been up

front with this. It should have come in with the budget when the

budget was proposed, not just be talked about this last week of theSession for the very first time as forty thousand dollars to make

24.the carpeting pretty in his outer office. If he wants come

25.put it in his budget, put it up front so it goes through both

26.committees and that everybody can discuss it and see whether or not

27.this is a legitimate State expense.

28.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)29

.

Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Shapiro may30.

close the debate.3l.SENATOR SHAPIRO:32.

Just in response to Senator Carroll. Some of your points are33.

1.

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

l3.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

well taken and I do not argue with you on that particular point.

The reason the money is appropriated out of General Revenue to the

Capital Development Board is that they handle all the remodeling

and so on and so forth, but I will skill...would urge a favorable

roll call.


Senator Shapiro mcves the adoption of Amendment No. 14 to

House Bill 2427. Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those

opposed. A roll call has been requested. Those in favor of

adopting Amendment No. 14 will indicate by voting Aye. Those

opposed vote Nay. The voting is open. Have al1 voted who wish?

Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, Ehe

Ayes are the Nays are none Voting Present. Amendment No. 14

having received the majority is declared passed. Any further amend-ments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 15 offered by Senators Carroll and Demuzio.


For what purpose does Senator Buzbee arise?

SENATOR BUZBEE:

just wanted to point out, Mr. President, there are at least

thirty-three people in this Chamber that maybe some day hope they

will be able to take advantage of those repairs and remodeling in

the Governorfs Office.

PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Carroll on Amendment No.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Withdraw it and please.

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 15 offered by Senator Maragos.


Senator Maragos.

SENATOR MARAGOS:

26.

28.

29.

3û.

3l.

32.

33.

80

1.

2.

3.

4.

'

6

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

16.

18.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

Mr. President and members of the Senate. A few minutes ago

everyone was complaining that Amendment No. 7 was the right thing

to do to take out the funds for the libraries, especially since

they were going to involve private institutions. Well now, this

is your chance to see if you really meant it: that you want to

help the library system, especially the public sector and I ask

for your adoption of Amendment No. 15 to House Bill 2427, which

restores the five million dollars for the public libraries and

not the private libraries, which was the big complaint earlier.


Is there further discussion? Senator Scmmer.

SENATOR SOMMER:

Mr. President and members. Could we..Mr. President...


Would you break up that conference there...

SENATOR SOMMER:

Mr. President and members. This is another attempt to start

us down the road on that very expensive program. There has to be

hundreds and hundreds of towns and districts that have library

buildings that would like to get them built. They will be in here

every year. They will have you, each Senator, carrying their

project, trying to get it through. It's going to cost 'us millions

of dollars and that doesn't even talk about the great big libraries

in the large cities that will every year get a slice of this money.

This is a very expensive new initiative and I donft think we should

be going for at this time and I would urge the members to vote No.


Senator Martin.

SENATOR MARTIN:

Yes, would rise in opposition to this and 1'11 tell you

what happens when they build big, new libraries. You have a great

big building and you have a lot of people working there and pretty

soon you have a budget the way you do in my town with ten percent

81

of the budget going for books because the cost of the building

2. and the cosE of the personnel that go with it make the real

3. reason for a library cease to exist and this amendment should be

4. defeated. It's not the building, the books that are ultimately

the important thing.

6. PRESIDING OEFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)*

7. Is them further discussion? If not, Senator Maragos may

8. close the debate.

9. SENATOR MARAGOS:

1c. Mr. President and members of the Senate. If yo: don't have

11. a building you canlt put in the books and because the library in...

y2 your area, Senator Lynn Martin, may be mismanaged, doesnft mean

la every other library is mismanaged. I feel very strongly in this

14 area that we should provide adequate libraries Eo...it's to back

up our educational system and books are a very important inçredientl5.

16 for our educational system. Please do not...do not deny our future

students the opportunity to get a good education and have facilities

for good libraries. Please vote Aye on this one because this...18.

the public sector, not the private sector.l9.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)20.Senator Maragos moves the adoption of Amendment No. 15 to2l

.

House Bill 2427. Those in favor will indicate by voting Aye.22.

Those opposed Nay. The Ayes...the voting is open. Have al1 voted23.

who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? It24.

didn't help, Charlie. Take the record. On that question, the25. ,

Ayes are 24, the Nays are 30. Amendment No. 15 having failed to26.

receive a majority is declared lost. Any further amendments?27.SECRETARY:28

.

Amendment No. offered by Senator Buzbee.29.


Senator Buzbee.

SENATOR BUZBEE:32.

Thank you, Mr. President/ 1...1 think I will withdraw this33. .

82

2.

amendment at this time and...and see what happens in Conference

Committee, perhaps try to put it on then.


Any further amendments?

SECRETARYI



8. 3rd reading. House Bill 2428, Senator Shapiro. Read the

9. bill, Mr. Secretary.

l0. SECRETARY:

ll. HOuSe Bill 2428.

12 (Secretary reads title of bill)

la 2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations I offers

two amendments.l4.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l5.6 Senator Shapiro. Senator Carroll.l .

SENATOR CARROLL: j17.

la Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Senate. Amendment No. 1 is a, basically, technical amendment tol9. .

change the total authorization level for correctional purposes20.

to reflect the Governords signing of HB 942, which had increased2l.

the authorization to...by mme four million six eighty and I would22.




the adoption of Amendment No. l to House Bill 2428. Those in26.

favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it.27.

dm l is adopted. Any further amendments?Amen ent No.28.

SECRETARY:29.

Committee Amendment No. 2.30. .


Senator Carroll.32.

SENATOR CARROLL:33.

4.

5.

6.

7.

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

l0.

11..

l2.

13.

l4.

l5.

l6.

Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Senate. Committee Amendment No. reduces the authorization level

some forty-three million seven hundred thousand below the level

as introduced. It does contain still an authorization for some

of the programs that were cut in the- .in 2427. We will have

further amendments later on as we...always do to bring it in line

to what we end up being the final work product and at this time I

would move adoption of Amendment No. 2.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICEAS)




Amendment No. 2 is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:




SECRETARY:

Floor Amendment No. offered


18.

l9. by Senator shapiro.

20.21 senator shapiro.

22 ' SENATOR SHAPIRO:

23 Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I assume'

24 that this is the amendment on page 4 by...with deletes lines 25

zs. through 33. In the preceding bill, House Bill 2427, which were the

a6 new appropriations for the Capital Development Board. This Body

deleted the Capital grants for private higher ed and for library

construction. What this amendment would do would delete the28.

a: substantive language in the authorization bill to accomplish what

we have already done in the appropriation bill, so that 1...1 would30.

urge its adoption.31.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator shapiro moveé the33.

84

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

21.

22.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

adoption of Amendment No. House Bill 2428. Those in favor

indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have Amend-

ment No. 3 is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:



3rd reading. For what purpose does Senator Shapiro arise?

SENATOR SHAPIRO:

Now, therefs going to be a revised authorization level. Do

you want to leave the bill on 2nd? That information will be ready

this afternoon or do you want to bring it back from 3rd?


We can move ik back from 3rd.

SENATOR SHAPIRO:

Okay.


House Bill 2486, Senator Daley. Read the bill. I'm...I'm

sorry. House Bill 2428, 3rd reading. House Bill 2486, Senator

Daley. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary. For what purpose does

Senator Nash arise?

SENATOR NASH:

Mr. President, on a point of personal privilege.


State your point.

SENATOR NASH:

Right behind us we have the gentleman who prepared the food

for the party at the Mansion last night, Jimmy lGredk'namnl , his

brother Marco, his wife Maritza and Jimmy.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)

Will they...will they stand and be recognized. And extend

our compliments to the chefs. Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

On a point of personal privilege. That among those who prepared

85

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

the lambs was Mayor Mooney from Bourbonnais of the district of

Senator Jerome Joyce.


Well. Will they stand and be recognized.

SECRETARY:

House Bill 2486.

(Secretary reads title of bill)

2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations I offers

one amendment.


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentiemen of the

Senate. This amendment is a slight reduction to recognize

previous lapses in personal service line item. I would move

adoption of Amendment No. 1.


Is there any discussion? Senator Carroll moves the adoption

19. of Amendment No. l to House Bill 2486. Those in favor indicate

by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment No. 1

is adopted. Any further amendments?

22 SECRETARY:


24. PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

as Any amendments from the Floor?

26 SECRETARY:



a: 3rd reading. Do we have leave just to pass 2569 for a moment?

Leave is granted. House Bill 2575, Senator Weaver. Read the bill,30.

Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:32.

House Bill 2575.33.

86

1.

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

l4.

16.

17.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.


2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations I offers

two amendments.


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:


Senate. This amendment cuts seven...to the seven percent, breaks

out statistics in tabulating servicesz makes som' e slight reductions

in equipment and travel. We have a corrective amendment later that

we have worked out with the commissioner. I would move adoption

of Amendment No. 1.



the adoption of Amendment No. l to House Bill 2575. Those in

favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it.


SECRETARY :



Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:


Senate. This a reduction in the Bank and Trust Company Fund

from seven hundred and fifty thousand to four hundred and fifty

thousand. It meets with the approbation of the Commissioner of

Banks. I move its adoption.






SECRETAXY:

87




4. SECRETARY:

Floor Amendment No. 3 offered by Senator Weaver.


7. Senator Weaver.

8. SENATOR WEAVER:

9 Thank you, #r. President. This is an addition of a hundred

lo and ten thousand dollars to take care of the commissioner's duties

yl as it relates to the Electronic Funds...Transfer and Transmission

Facilities Act and Iîd move its adoption.12.


Is there further discussion? Senator Rock.14.

SENATOR ROCK:l5.

What does this one do?l6.


Could we have a little order, please.l8.

SENATOR ROCK:l9.

Where...where is Senator Bloom? I was going ko say...are2o.

we now...the cart before the horse again. I.- which way do you21.

want me to go on this one?22.


Senator Bloom.24.

SENATOR BLOOM:25. .

Well, can't tell you which way I want...26. , .

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)

Can we have a little order and break up those conferences by28.

Senator Sommer the back there.29.

SENATOR BLOOM:30.

Thank you. I can't tell you...3l.


Senator Geo-Karis. Senator Bruce, take these conferences33.

88

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l6.

17.

l8.

l9.

20.

22.

23.

24.

off the Floor.

SENATOR BLOOM:

You want to control

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

yourself, Chew. I can't tell you which

way to go# Senator Rock, until Senator Weaver gives me a copy

of the amendment. Thank you. This apparently will give some

cheese to the Commissioner of Banks and Trust Companies so he

could put on a striped shirt and blow a whistle when they.- bank

groups come crying to him.


Is there fur*her discussion? If not, Senator Weaver moves


favor will say Aye. Those opposed. A roll call has been requested.

Those in favor of Amendment No. will vote Aye. Those opposed

will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish?

Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, the

Ayes are l2, the Nays are 27, none Voting Present. Amendment No.

to House Bill 2575 having failed to rçceive a majority vote is

declared lost. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 4 offered by Senator Carroll.


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLE:

Thank you, Mr. President. We had several discussions with the

commissioner and I've attempted to resolve his problems. This

restores thirty-two thousand six forty and I would move its

adoption.





Amendment No. 4 is adopted. Any further amendments? *

SECRETARY:

89

1.

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

13.

l4.

l5.

No furEher amendments.


3rd reading. House Bill 2578, Senator Schaffer. Read the

bill, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:

House Bill 2578.


2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations 11

offers seven amendwents.

PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)

Senator Buzbee.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank you, Mr. President. Amendment No. 1...the effect of

this is to delete everything after the enacting clause and start

over again. The reason is that the House in their wisdom only

16 funded the department at...for half a year because a1l of us

know of our various irritations with the Department of Public

Health, however they have cleaned house over there. The...thel8.

big four of the Public Health Department are no longer there.l9.

think it's only fair that we give the new regime an opportunity20.

to do the job theylre supposed to do and so this amendment would2l.

restore the bill in its original form so that it reflects a twelve22.

month funding and I would move its adoption.23.


Is there further discussion? Senator Mitchler.25.


Mr. President and members of the Senate. The remark that

Senator Buzbee made sort of caught me. We ought to give the new28.

regime over there an opportunity to prove themselves. You know29.

and I think you may agree with me, Senator Buzbee, I1m not speaking30.

for you, but after I complete my remarks...you know, we change a-3l.

round here...change these directors like you shuffle cards. You32.

know, you pick up the paper today and you find that you got a new33.

90

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

warden at Stateville. Ten months ago we brought a fellow in

from over in Iowa, oh# what a great job he was going to do at

Stateville, going to shake it down. He lasted ten months and

we shuffle him. Welve shuffled the warden at Pontiac. You've

shuffled the Department of Children and Family Services with a

director. Well, the one at Publkc Health, he..xthey found out

so much was going on over there they had to get a new director

there. Margaret Kennedy, she didn't last long in DCFS over

there either and you know, now we want to give another chance by

funding the Department of Public Hea1th. I donlt know when we're

going to get our act around here. I know that I've got two

caterpiller Tractor Plants in my district. One at Aurora and one

at Joliet and when the President of Caterpillar Tractor Company

in the general office down there in Peoria decides to put a

manager in at Aurora, he doesnît put somebody in there that he's

going to try out...


18. Senatorz your time is expired.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

31.

32.

33.

SENATOR MITCHLER:

. . .that fellow is going to prove himself and he doesn't fire

him in ten months.


Is there further discussion? Senator Buzbee may close the

debate. Senator Buzbee moves for the adoption of Amendment No.

to House Bill 2578. Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those

opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment No. l is adopted. Any

further amendments?

SECRETARY:



Senator Buzbee.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank you, Mr President. This amendment does the following

1.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

l2.

13.

14.

l5.

16.

l8.

19.

20.

2l.

22.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

things to the FY '80 appropriation of the Department of Public

Hea1th. It...number one, it cuts thirty new positions reduced

by the House for a savings of two hundred forty thousand nine

hundred dollars in Personal Services. Number two, it reduces

Personal Services by two hundred ten thousand three hundred dollars

in nearly every division to bring pay increases to the seven per-

cent level and numher three, it breaks out the Public Health labs

in Chicago, Carbflndale and Springfield. Number four, it adds

three hundred eighty-seven thousand six hundred dollars for twenty-

two local health departments, which were to receive less assistance

from the Department of Public Hea1th in FY '80 than they received

in FY 179. This was done also by the House. Numher five, it adds

thirty-six thousand five hundred dollars to Disease Control for

a...screening program for those exposed to DES and 1111 not attempt

to pronounce the name. This was done by the House. Numher six,

it adds three...thirty-five thousand seventy dollarsv..it adds

thirty-five thousand seven hundred dollars in PHS funds to allow

for medical preparations for rheumatic fever patients as was done

in the House. Number seven, iE breaks out the Women and Infant

Care Program in the grants and administration and adds one

hundred sixty thousand three hundred dollars to the program.

Number eight, adds one hundred forty-two thousand PHS to

Environmental Health for twelve month funding of the Federally

assisted Pesticide Program and I would move its adoption.


Is there further discussion? Channel 20 has requested leave

to film the proceedings. Is leave granted? Leave is granted.

Senator Buzbee moves the adoption of Amendment No. 2 to House Bill

2578. Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The

Ayes have it. Amendment No. 2 is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:

+ Committee Amendment No.


92

Mr...senator Buzbee.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

14.

l7.

l8.

19.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

2b.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment adds three million

one hundred forty-four thousand three hundred dollars to the FY '80

appropriation of the Department of Public Health in the following

areas. One, it adds one million five hundred thousand for the

Paranatal Program Tertiary Care to bring the FY t80 total to four

million nine hundred thousand dollars. DPH requested one million

seven hundred and sixty thousand less for this purpose in FY '80

than was appropriated in FY '79 and this probably will not be

sufficient because they are never...they're always behind in their

payments. Numher twoy it adds a new line for Paranatal grants at

the secondary care level in the amount of one million two hundred

thousand dollars. Number three, it adds a line for staffing and

training grants to Paranatal Centers in the amount of four hundred

forty-four thousand three hundred dollars. This line and amount

was included in the FY '79 appropriation of DPH, but was :ot

included in their FY '80 request and I would move its adoption.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Buzbee moves


favor indicate by.saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it.


SECRETARY:

tommittee Amendment No. 4.


Senakor Buzbee.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank youy Mr. President. This amendment was added by Senator

Schaffer. Itfs for a thirty-three thousand nine hundred eighty-

seven dollars for PKU followup. The figures were provided to the

commission by...rather, provided by the commission on Mental

Health...Developmental Disabilities by the Bureau of the Budget and

93

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll. SENATOR BUZBEE:

12. Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment was requested by

13. Senator Regner. It adds one dentist and one administrative

14 assistant for six months to the Dental Hea1th Division, a total

ys addition of sixty-one thousand four hundred dollars and I would

16 move its adoption.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Buzbee movesl8.

the adoption of Amendment No. 5 to House Bill 2578. Those inl9.

go favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it

and...Amendment No. 5 is adopted. Any further amendments?2l.

SECRETARY:22.


PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)24.Any amendments from the Floor?2b

.

SECRETARY:26.

Amendment No. 6 offered by Senator Daley.


Senator Daley.29.

SECRETARY:30.

Now wait just a minute, Mr. President.31.

SENATOR DALEY:32.

One more committee amendment, isn't there?33.

I would move its adoption.



the adoption of Amendment No. 4 to House Bill 2578. Is there any...

those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes

have it. Amendment No. 4 is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:



Senator Buzbee.

94

â112

SECRETARY:



Senator Buzbee.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

3.

4.

5.

6. Thank you, Mr. Fresident. As a matter of fact, I think

there are two more committee amendments. Okay. Committee

8. Amendment No. 6 is an addition of eight hundred forty-seven

9. thousand five hundred seventy-six dollars. One hundred twenty-

l0. four thousand five hundred General Revenue to provide funding

ll. for the preparation of a nuclear emergency response plan. Seven

hundred twenty-three thousand seventy-six dollars will provide

13 funding for the phase-in of continuous remote monitoring of

14 nuclear generating facilities. This appropriation is needed

5 with the passage of Senate Bill 1084 and I would move its adoption .l .

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS )l 6 .ù 17 Is the<e further discussion? If not , Senator Buzbee moves


favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it.l9.

Amendment No. 6 is adopted. Any further amendments?20.

SECRETARY:2l.

Committee Amendment No.


Senator Buzbee.24.

SENATOR BUZBEE:25.

Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment provides eighty-26.

five thousand one hundred dollars to General Revenue to the27.

Office of Hea1th Finance. This is a department amendment effective28. .

control of the State expehditures for health care and social29.

services requirements. It requires that program coordination be30.

carried on a programatic as well as fiscal basis. This staff3l.

would enable the Office of Hea1th Finance to expand its work32.

in qoordinating State programs with their fiscal implications.33.

2.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

12.

This includes assisting other agencies in evaluation of programs

effectiveness in coordinating cost reporting requirements with

desired programatic goals and developing cost containment

strategies, which will not undermine program goals and I would

move its adoption.






SECRETARY:


PRESIDING OFFICER: (S'ENATOR SAVICKAS)l3.

Any amendments from the Floor?l4.

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 8 offered by Senator Daley.16.


Senator Daley.l8.

SENATOR DALEY:l9.

Mr. President and fellow Senators. This is an appropriation20.

for a hundred and ninety-four thousand for the nurses aid training,2l.

which corresponds to Senate Bill 316 in regards to the nursing home22.

industry. I'd ask for adoption.23.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Daley moves


favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have27.


SECRETARY:29.



3rd reading. House Bill 2579, Senator Regner. Read the bill,32.

Mr. Secretary.33.

96

SECRETARY:

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

House Bill 2579.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

16.

l7.

18.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

2$.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.


2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations I

offers one...offers three amendments.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SE NATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Thank you, Mr. PresidenE and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Senate. Amendment No. l is basically the seven percent solution

and deleting grants that were not within the Federal funding levels.

I would move adoption of Amendment No.



the adoption of Amendment No. l to House Bill 2579. Those in



SECRETARY:



Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:


Senate. This amendment eliminates the funds in which the House

added on in General Revenue match to grants to regional commissions

because there is no dollar amopnt as yet set by Congress for

Federal funds for these regional commissions and I would move

adoption of Amendment No. 2'.


Is there any discussion? Senator Carroll moves the adoption

of Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 2579. Those in favor indicate

by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it. Amendment No. 2

is adopted. Any further amendments?

97

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

SECRETARY:



Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:


Senate. Committee Amendment No. 3 is a restoration of four

particular projects. The comments when questioning the directorin committee and his fiscal officer, he indicated that these

particular projects were not on the Federal plan two to ILAC

and two Eo the Supreme Court. We were surprised with that

comment. In checking it we found they were within the Federal

funding levels and therefore, within the ILAC plan and we have

restored them. They have agreed they made a mistake in their

testimony and these restore those four projects. I would moveadoption.


Is there further discussicn? not, Senator Carroll moves

the adoption of Amendment No. 4...No. 3 to House Bill 2579. Those

in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it.

Amendment No. is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:




SECRETARY:

No Floor amendments.


3rd reading. Senator Rock. House Bill 2004. Do we have

leave to go back to the Order of House Bill 2004? Leave is

granted. House Bill 2004, Senator Lemke. Read the bill, Mr.

Secretary.

SECRETARY:

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

15.

l6.

l8.

19.

20.

24.

2b.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

98

House Bill 2004.


2nd reading of the bill. The Committee on Appropriations I

offers seven amendments.


Senator Carroll.

7. SENATOR CARROLL:

8. Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

9. Senate. Amendment No. 1 is the report of the subcommittee on

1c. these commission's bills. It had brought in a1l the various

people interested in various commissions and reported out a

12. list of some thirty-four commissions. There were some that

13 were deleted for not showing. Senator Lemke later heard from

14 these people and there are amendments to add some of that money

15 back. I would answer questions on each of these, but would

16 rather move adoption. There are later amendments, Senator

Davidson, to add back those who failed to show. Senator Davidson,l7.

for example, was interested the Governor's Commission onl8.

Physical Fitness. No one showed. In between Lemke, Rupp andl9.

Nash no one there was concerned about physicial fitness, so it20.

was not included in the first amendment and I would move adoption



Senator Carroll.- ls there further discussion? Senator24.

Carroll movek the adoption of Amendment No. 1 to House Bill 2004.25.

Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. Amendment26.

No. 1 is adopted. Any further amendments?27.

SECRETARY:28.

Committee Amendment No.29.


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:32.

Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.33.

2.

3.

4.

5.

99

1.

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

13.

l4.

l5.

16.

Amendment No. 2 is thirty-five thousand for the Ethnic Heritage

Commission and I would move adoption.






SECRETARY:



Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

To answer Senator Buzbee's question, Amendment No. 3

the Vehicle Recycling Fund and I would move adoption of Amendment

No. 3.




favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have it.l9.


SECRETARY:2l.


PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)23.

Senator Carroll.24.

SENATOR CARROLL:25.

Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the26.

Senate. This was Senator Hall's request. It's the Institute27.

of Natural Resources research...a hundred thousand dollars in28.

Committee Amendment No. I'd move its adoption.29.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll moves3l. .

the .adoption of Amendment No. 4 to...House Bill 2004. Those in32.

favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes have33.

l00

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

l2.

13.

14.

l5.

l6.

Amendment No.

SECRETARY:

Commiktee Amendment No. 5.


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Consolidation of Water Resources amendment. This is for

forty-five thousand seven hundred dollars and I would move its

adoption.


there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll moves




SECRETARY :



For what purpose does Senator Mitchler arise?

SENATOR MITCHLER:

Well, maybe...l was just going to ask Senator Carroll...

what does it mean by the consolidation of the Water Resources

Commission?

adopted. Any further amendments?

l8.

2l.

22.

2a. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

24 Senator Carroll.

zs SENATOR MITCHLER:

26 Who do we consolidake wikh?


28. This was forty-five thousand seven hundred after Personal

29. Services for their other expenses of travel commodities and that

30 was consolidated into Water Resources. Okay.

a1. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

aa Further amendments?

SECRETARY:33.

101



Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

This was three hundred thousand for the DispMced Homemakers

Program that Senator Schaffer was concerned with and I move its

adoption.






SECRETARY:

3.

4.

5.

6.

8.

9.

l0.

l2.

l3.

14.

l5.

l6.

l 7 .

- 1 8 .

l9.

20.



Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Thank you. This was the Governor's request for fourteen

thousand, once again for the International Year of the Child for

FY '80 expenses of the International Year of the Child and I

would move adoption of Amendment No. 7.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Carroll moves...23.

Senator Mitchler.24.


It's hard to hear, but 1...1 thought I heard right. This is26.

an appropriation now for the International Year of the Child that27.

we previously knocked off another bill or amendment back here a28.

few weeks ago. 1...1 want to be sure...29.


Is that a question of Senator Carroll?


Yes.33.

10 2

2.


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

What was the question?

SENATOR MITCHLER:

Didn't...didn't we eliminate this, Senator Carroll, from

a previous bill at one time? Wasn't it on or did the House

knock it off?

SENATOR CARROLL:

No...the House had knocked off the FY '79 appropriation.

The Governor has released his request for FY '79 monies for

the Year of the Child. It was a twenty thousand dollar request.

Now that we're in to the next year...we're down to fourteen

thousand for FY '80 request. There is no FY 179 request, so

welve saved a year and six thousand dollars and the FY î80

request is fourteen thousand.

PRESIDING OFFICERI (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Mitchler.

SENATOR MITCHLER:

Well, don't know why it just went down that much if...it

should have gone down the full ten thousand because it would justbe for a half a year. we...if we missed it for the first'

part of the year, we only have a half a year to go, it ought to

go down to ten thousand for those that want to vote on it, but

I know a 1ot of the heat that a 1ot of the United States Senators

and members of Congress got for voting five million for that

International Women's Year and it...


Senator, your time has expired.

SENATOR MITCHLER:

. . .got all these conferences going to so...


Is there further discussion? Senator Berning.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

18.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

103

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

SENATOR BERNING:

A question of the sponsor, please.


He indicates he will yield.

SENATOR BERNING:

To whom is the appropriation made, Senator?


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

The Department of Children and Family Services for expenses

related to the activities of the International Year of the Child.


Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

Is not the International Year of the Child just that, Inter-

national and are we thereby authorizing people or members from

the Department of Children and Family Services to attend National

. . .and International meetings?


Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

To the best of my recollection, Senator Berning, and it's

merely the best of my recollection, the monies that we were

always talking about we in order to host meetings here in

Illinois for International Year of the Child activities to bring

others within Illinois to have functions here.

PRESIDING OFFICER) (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

Is there any indication at al1 as to where and how these

funds will be spent and for what? International Year of the

Child really doesn't tell anybody anything.


24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

1.

2.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

19.

20.

2l.

22.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

Senator, your time has expired. Is there further discussion?

If not, Senator Carroll may close the debate.

SENATOR CARROLL:

It's my understanding that those monies always were for

meetings here within the State of Illinois. Also: to have essay

contests in schools and things of that nature to emphasize the

International Year of the Child and I would move adoption of

Amendment No. at the request of the Governor.

PRESIDING OFFICER:' (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Carroll moves the adoption...

SENATOR CARROLL:

At the request of the Governor..xat the request of the Governor.



House Biil 2004. A roll call has been requested. A11 those in

favor of adopting Amendment No. 7 will vote Aye. Those opposed

vote Nay. The voting is opep. Have al1 voted who wish? Have

al1 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, the Ayes

are 34, the Nays are 10, none Voting Present. Amendment No. 7

having received the majority is declared adopted. Any further

amendments?

SECRETARY :




SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 8 offered by Senator Hall.


Senator Hall.

SENATOR HALL :

What...what...which one is that?


Amendment No. 8.

1.

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

SENATOR HALL:


senate. This amendment would appropriate forty-eight thousand

seven hundred to.- dollars...it's appropriated to the State

Fire Marshal to assist...municipalities in need of emergency

funds for firefighting equipment or protective gear. I'd ask the

.. .support of this amendment.



SENATOR SOMMER:

Mr. President and members. Quickly, this...this amendment

is constitutionally infirm. It has substantive language in it

and has...it's simply ineffective, Senator, and I would urge

opposition to it.


Is there further discussion? Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Yes, Mr. President, I had opposed this in committee for...

for two reasons. Not because he's saying...don't need this

type of assistance that the Fire Marshal may be able to offer

them, but this is substantive languàge the appropriation bill

and in' Benjamin versus Devonne Bank the Supreme Court of this

State has rulçd thaE that is clearly and patenly unconstitutional.

That was a case where I was on the losing side, I might add,

and in addition thereto, this were to be embarking upon a new

program of putting State dollars into local governments fire

depar tments and I would assume would mushroom into a multi-

billion program once it got underway. think we should have

substantive legislation to create this program and this would

just be an ineffective way of trying to do it.


Is there further discussion? not, Senator Hall may close

the debate.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

l06

SENATOR HALL:

2. Well, you just heard from two of the bic four. Now, webre3. getting right back to this same thing again. I1m just asking4. for a mere...after...and when I think of all of this money that's

being passed out around here, I'm only asking.- l...here...r was

6. turned down for a mere five thousand dollars yesterday. Now, I

7. come begging with tears in my eyes, pleading to you. Now...or

8. it's time for you Gentlemen here to quite listening to the big

9. four. Now, it's time for you to wake up and let's do something

l0. for ourselves, so with that I would ask green lights on this

1l. appropriation. Thank you.


13. Senator Hall moves for the adoption of Amendment No. 8 to

14 House Bill 2004. Those in favor will signify by saying Aye.

15 Those opposed. Those opposed. The Nays have it. A roll call

16 has been requested. A roll call has been requested. No. Senator

Wooten. Senator Halle for what purpose do you arise?

SENATOR HALL:l8.

lq I think my hearing is pretty good and 1 haven't heard any-

20 body request a roll call. 1...1 will abide by your decision and

21 you said the Ayes have it so...

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)2 .

2 a I did not say the Ayes had it .

SENATOR HALL;24.

What did you say?25.


I said the Nays had it and a roll call was requested.27.

SENATOR HALL:28.

Well, I must be hearing wrong. Since wedre going to do that29.

let's- .let's go on the roll call then.30.


A1l those in favor of adopting a number..vvoting for number...32.

107

4.

5.

6.

Amendment No. 8 will vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The

voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have a1l voted who

wish? Take the record. On that question, the Ayes are 2l,

the Nays are 25, none Voting Present. Amendment No. 8 to

House Bill 2004 having failed to receive a majority is declared

lost. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:

g. Floor Amendment No. offered by Senator Berning.


lo Senator Berning.

11 SENATOR BERNING:

Thank you, Mr. President. Amendment No. 9 provides ten

thousand dollars for the model Deaf and Hard of Hearing Study

Commission. It was inadvertently overlooked and I would movel4.

for khe adoption of Amendment No. 9.15.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Berning movesl7. .


favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The Ayes havel9.


SECRETARY:2l.

Amendment No. 10 offered by Senator Davidson.22.


Senator Davidson.24.

SENATOR DAVIDSON:25.

Yes, this restores the forty thousand dollars to the Governor's26.

Physical Fitness Counsel...27.

PRESIDENT:28.

Senator Carroll.29.

SENATOR CARROLL:30.

Thank you. As we said in the first amendment, the subcommittee3l. .

made up of Lemke, Rupp and Nash did nok...since no one showed up

they were not strong advocates of Physic al Fitness unless there

l 0 8

1.

2.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

12.

l3.

l4.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

was some. concomitant amount of money for those who weren't

inclined to be physically fit. Senator Davidson has since

shown up and Senator Lemke has informed me that this is with-

in the guidelines and I would urge its adoption.

PRESIDENT:

Al1 right. Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of

Amendment No. to House Bill 2004. Is there any further

discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying Aye.

A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment is adopted.

Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 11 offered by Senator Lemke.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Lemke. Senator Lemke.

SENATOR LEMKE:

Well, that's to put back the money we took out for the...

on khe...counsel on Nutrition. No one showed up so we took

out, but now they appeared and we ask for...to put the money

back in. We ask for its adoption.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Lemke has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 11

to House Bill 2004. Is there any discussion? If not, al1 in

favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it.

The amendment is adopted. Further amendments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 12 offered by Senator Hall.

PRESTDENT:

Senator Hall. Senator Hall.

SENATOR HALL:

Thank youy Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Senate. Well, let's see, so far I'm batting a thousand, so at

this...now, at this kime since you people don't like to pass

small amounts, 'Ilm only asking for a million nine hundred thousand

26.

27.

28.

29)

30.

31.

32.

l 0 9

dollars and it's appropriated to the Illinois Industrial

Development Authority foY the purpose of making loans for

industrial development. Now, this is a vital thing and this

4. is State-wide. It will help a11 of you in your areas. We're

5. talking about stimulating the economy, finding jobs and this

6. is the way to do it, Gentlemen, so at this time I'd ask your

most favorable support of this amendment.

8. PRESIDENT:

9. Senator Hall has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 12.

l0. Is there any discussion? Senator Carroll.

ll. SENATOR CARROLL:

12. Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Senate. First to correct Senator Hall, we did give him a

14 hundred thousand dollars in Amendment No. 4 for the East St.

15 Louis area: but more to this point, I commend Senator Hall for

16 the innovation. The original one came in of the substantive

legislation that would allow this million nine to have beenl7.

spent, failed in the House. It went onto the Spring Calendar18.

19 rather than failing, excuse me, but it went on the Spring

ao Calendar. The...we have already funded an additional million

to the Industrial Development Authority. have been reliably2l.

informed that this would be over and above that million and,

therefore, not within the Governor's recommendations of spending

levels and I think we should let that million which works well24.

go well and if the substantive legislation does pass next Spring25.

we could then come back and fund this new program.26. . ,

PRESIDENT:27.

Further discussion? Senator Sommer.28.

SENATOR SOMMER:29.

Mr. President and members, I adopt everything Senator Carroll30.

said and urge defeat of this amendment.3l.

PRESIDENT:

right. Senator Hall has moved the adoption of Amendment

110

1.

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

l2.

l3.

No. to House Bill 2004. Those in favor signify by saying

Aye. Those opposed. In Ehe opinion of the Chair the Noes

have The amendment fails. Further amendments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 13 offered by Senator Egan.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Egan.

SENATOR EGAN:

Yes, thank you- .

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

SECRETARY:

Senator Egan, have two.

SENATOR EGAN:

That's correct.

SECRETARY:

The...

SENATOR EGAN:

The following two amendments are identiçal in some, but

they are put into different budgets because of the lack of

enablinq legislation that is now pending its way..vwinding

its way through the General Assembly. One of these is going

Eo be vetoed and I urge the adoption of Amendment No. 13, as

I will with No. l4.

PRESIDENT:

. ..senator Egan has moved the adoption of Amendment No.

to House Bill 2004. Is there any discussion? Senator Egan.

SENATOR EGAN:

It funds the Criminal Sentencing Commission and I move its

adoption.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Egan moves the adoption of Amendment No. 13 to House

Bill 2004. Is there any further discussion? If not, a11 in

favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it.

The amendment is adopted. Further amendments?

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

1. SECRETARY:

Senate...hmendment No. 14 offered by Senator Egan.

3.

4.

PRESIDENT:

Senator

SENATOR EGAN:

This is the same amendmentzbut put into a different budget.

I move its adoption.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Egan has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 14 to

House Bill 2004. Is there any discussion? If not, indicate...

Senator Egan has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 14 to

House Bill 2004. Is there any discussion? If not, a1l in favor

signify by saying Aye. Al1 opposed. The Ayes have The

amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:

Egan.

6.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

18.

l9.

20.

Amendment No. offered by Senator Daley.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Daley.

SENATOR DALEY:

Mr. Presidentz fellow Senators. This is an appropriation

21 of twenty-five thousand to the Supreme Court for payment for a

court appointed counsel dealing with the mentally ill and

2a mentally retarded, which we passed a bill last year.

PRESIDENT:24.

' as Senator Daley has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 15

to House Bill 2004. Is there any discussion? If not, a11 in26.

favor signify by saying Aye. Al1 opposed. The Ayes have it.27.

The amendment is adopted. Further amendments?28.

SECRETARY:29.


PRESIDENT:31.

3rd reading. Senator Donnewald, for what purpose do you arise?32.

SENATOR DONNEWALD:

112

# A.Aq# )#!

ul>A

1.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

Yes, if I could have the attention of the Body, I would

ask now for a recess of one hour to reconvene at 1:15.

PRESIDENT:

Senator...

SENATOR DONNEWALD :

I defer now to Senator Johns.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Johns.

SENATOR JOHNS:

Thank you, Mr. President. There will be a caucus of the

Democratic Senake immediately in Room 400...400 immediately.

PRESTDENT:

Senator Shapiro.

SENATOR SHAPIRO:

Mr. President, I would like to announce to the Republican

members that there will be a very short caucus in my office

immediately upon recess.

PRESIDENT:

All right. The Senate stands in recess untkl the hour of

1:15.

14.

l5.

16.

l7.

l8.

19.

2O.

2l.

22.

(RECESS)

(AFTER RECESS)

2b.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

PRESIDENT:

The Senate will come to order. Will those not entitled to

the Floor please vacate the premises. On the Order of House

Bills, 2nd reading, page 31 on the Calendar, House Bill 2569.

Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:

House Bill 2569.

(Secretary begins to read title of bill)

House Bi11 2569 was read a second time on the 21st of June.

Amendment No. l and 2 were Tabled and Amendment No. 3 was adopted.

2nd reading of the bill. No further committee amendments.

t. PRESIDENT:

Are there amendments from the Floor?

SECRETARY:

4.

5.

6.

Amendment No. 4 offered by Senator McMillan.

PRESIDENT:

Senator McMillan.

8.

9.

l0.

11.

l2.

SENATOR MCMILLAN:

Mr. President and members of the Senate. Amendment No. 4...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Bruce, for what purpose do you arise?

SENATOR BRUCE:

I've been apprised, there's more than one amendment. I

wonder if...if each sponsor when he began the explanation would

read off the LRB numher, particularly the last two digits and

then perhaps we will know exactly where we are.

PRESIDENT:

l4.

l5.

l6.

17 A11 right. The Secretary indicates he can read that off,

la Senator McMillan. A11 right. Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:l9.

LRB number...last...let's read the...the letters LDVAMIS.20.

PRESIDENT:2l.

Senator McMillan.22.

SENATOR MCMILLAN:

That number is correct. This particular amendment strips24.

everything after the enacting clause and offers in its place what25.

is essentially the product of the Governorîs Study Committee to26.

come up with a solution for replacement of the Corporate Personal27.

Property Tax. It has a 2.25 rate on corporationsr a 1.25 rate28.

on partnerships, a .75 on invested capital. This will raise the29.

base amount four hundred and sixty-eight million dollars, the3û.

amount thaE is necessary for replacement and will increase in such3l.

a manner a@ to provide the necessary revenue. includes the

reclassification language of 2569 which in fact, better than

114

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

:.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

was in 2700. It has dollar for dollar distribution based on

collections in 1978. It has distribution beginning in March 31st

of 1980 and quarterly thereafter. This particular piece of.n of

legislation is the one proposal which provides for replacement

based on exactly the amounts that the units of local government

are going to lose. This has a rate, which is the lowest possible

rate we can place upon the corporations of the State and it has

a distribution, which is fair to each unit of government involved.

PRESIDENT:

there any discussion? Senator Gitz.

SENATOR GITZ:

A question of...of the sponsor of Ehe amendment.

PRESIDENT:

He...indicates he will yield. Senator Gitz.

SENATOR GITZ:

Senator McMillan, is it not true thaE the effective date in

your amendmenE is January 1

PRESIDENT:

Senator McMillan.

SENATOR MCMTLLAN:

That is quite correct and that date is necessary if the

amount of revenue is going to be raised and still keep the rate

low enough to be bearable.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Gitz.

SENATOR GITZ:

Wellà you can correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me

that one of the reasons youlre able to offer an amendment at a

2.225 rate is because youfre making a January l effective date.

That means that a1l the businesses in the State are going to be

stuck with a quarterly bill thak's going to come due in September.

At the same time they're going to...be paying last year's

Corporate Personal Property Tax and that seems to me to be a

ll5

1.

2.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

13.

tremendous burden to put upon them this coming year.

PRESIDENT:

Senator McMillan.

SENATOR MCMILLKN:

That particular thing is necessary because as.n as you know

that Personal Property Taxes that are paid this year are for the

liability accrued in 1978 and so this is not imposing any.- any

double liability even though, as you have stated clearly the

payment would occur in the same year.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator D'Arco.

(END OF REEL)

l6.

17.

18.

l9.

20.

22.

23.

24.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

116

Reel /4

SENATOR D'ARCOJ

2. Does this amendment also include estates...decedent's

3. estates? Are you taxing decedent's estates as well as trusts?

4. this amendment?

PRESIDENT:

6. Senakor McMillan.

7. SENATOR MCMILLAN:

8. Thïs...this bill includes a tax on.- the broad stakement

9. of fiduciaries and it also indicates that itls on estates.

l0. PRESIDENT:

11 Senator D'Arco.

12 SENATOR D'ARCO:

la Well, isn't it a fact that in the Hanley decision that

14 the Supreme Court of Illincis indicated that minor incompe-

tent in decedent's estates because of the involuntary naturel5.

16 of the...ofv..of khe...status of these estates were not

subject to taxation in Illinois.P RESIDENT:l8

.

Senator McMillan.


This is only those which are taxable and if the court2l.

has, in fact, indicated that there are some states whieh are22.

not, they will not be taxable. This includes only those which23.

are taxable.24.

P RESIDENT:25.

Senator D'Arco.26.

SENATOR D'ARCO:27.

z; You are...you are taxing al1...al1 the decendent's estates.

PRESIDENT:29.


SENATOR MCMJLLAN:3l.

This indicates that those will not be taxed which are32.

now exempt from the' personal property % x.33.

ll7

1. PRESIDENT:

2. Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

You are...you are including in...in your definition a1l

5. trusts that were exempt under the Revenue Act of 1929 also,

6. isn't that true?

7. PRESIDENT:

8. senator MeMillan.

9 SENATOR MCMILLAN:

10 It says, in the case of a trust or estate other than a

11 krust or estate which is exempt from payment of the taxes

z2 imposed on personal property by the Revenue Act of 1939, then

a replacement tax shall be paid. So those that are exemptl3.

from it will not be taxed under this.

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.l6.

SENATOR D'#RCO:l7.

Under.v.under that Act, if a trust pays...an Illinois...l8.

a...a trust...an Illinois corporation pay...an Illinois trust19.

pays a personal property tax, it would...it would not be subject20.

to taxation. And...and youbre...21.

P RESIDENT:22.

Senator MeMillan.23.


1...1 guess I didn't hear the end of his...

P RESIDENT:26.

right. Further discussion? Senator Bruce.27.

SENATOR BRUCE:28.

Well, Senator McMillan, just one question. How much lost29.

revenue will we have from your inclusion of foreign source30.

income...being included as a deduction from the base income3l.

for Illinois eorporations?32.

PRESIDENT:33.

/

ll8

Senator McMillan.


3. You mean how much less would there be than would have been

4. the case had it not been included?

5. P RESIDENT:

6. Senator McMillan.

7. SENATOR MCMILLKN:

g. Approximately ten to twelve million which means had it

9. not been in there, the amount raised the first year would

1o. probably be 478 for '80 instead of 468.

1l. PRESIDENT:

12 Senator Bruce.

13 SENATOR BRUCE:

14 Mr. Chairman- .Mr. President and members of the Senate.*,

15 I rise in opposition to this amendment, mainly for two reasons.

16 I think that the proposal that we move back to January the 1st

on tax liability is just unconscionable. This will put on the

lj taxpayers of the State of Illinois, the corporate taxpayers,an additional two hundred and forty-four million dollars in

tax liability at the rate before we compute out the foreign20.

source income exclusion. That is income tax they don't anticipate2l.

paying as income tax they don't know anything about and when22.

they start filing their quarterly returns in September, October23.

and November, they are going to get a nine month liability24.

statement from the State of Illinois. Now, if you want to25.

put a real cold chill on- .on growth in Illinois, pass this26.

amendment. I were a businessman or had a client, I would

say one thing you don't want to do in Illinois open up28.

business today. Because you den't open until January the

1st, youdre going to loose the full twelve months liability.30.

If you open on September the 1st or October' the 1st, you're3l.

going to accrue al1 the liability for that entire year. The32.

best thing to do to live with this amendment is to leave it at33.

ll9

:11* home. The two and a quarter percent has another flaw and that 112

. it is not going to raise enough money. By the Governor's own t1

3. commission, he-.we need at least-.at least four hundred and 11;4. sixty million, not including any...any exemptions or any escrow

5. amounts and not including any factor for growth, four hundred

6. and sixty million dollars. This is going to raise in the

7. neighborhood of four hundred and twenty-one million dollars,

8. not even enough to replace the revenue going to local govern-

: ments. It will put a tremendous strain on every unit of local

lc government to raise real estate taxes and I will rise in opposition

11 to Amendment 4 for that reason alone.

P RESIDENT:l2.

Any further discussion? Senator McMillan may close.l3.

SENATOR MdMILLAN:l4.With...with respond...in response to Senator Bruce'sl5

.

comments. Number one, his last statement is...is in error.16.

It will raise the four hundred and sixty-eight million dollarsnl7.

which is necessary and kh ich the- .the Governor's Commission''sl8.

work indicate should be raised. It needs to be made very19.

clear that it's nice to talk about the fact that the other20.

proposal, which is a three percent rate on corporations, would21.

be easy on them the first year, but then you beat hell out of22.

them from that time onward. This is one what they does, put a23.

bite on corporations the f irst year , but f rom that time onward2 4 .

1 s and the time in which businesses wi 11 be locating in Illinois ,2 .

: the ir tax will be at a 2 . 25 rate, rather than the three percent2 6 . . ,

' p rate which is beinq talked about on the other side . The2 .

Constitution calls f or replacement and replacement only, and2 8 .

this is the only package thak offers that at this point. Thé29.

. business community, already overburdened, wants the lowest30.

: possible rate and this is the only package alive now that3l.

!offers a 1ow rate. And local governments have every right to32

.

expect dollar for dollar distribution to them, but they have33.

34. absolutely no right to any windfall and th is is the only

l201l!I

. 1

1. package that offers just dollar for dollar and not a lot of

2. extra gravy for any unit of government. I would seek a favorable

3. roll call. It was developed carefully, it's b ased on the facts

4. that relate to the issue and I would seek a favorable roll call.

5. P M SIDENT:

6. A1l right. Senator McMillan has moved the adoption of

7. Amendment No. 4 to House Bill 2569. Those in favor of the

8. amendment will vote Aye. Those opposed wi 11 vote Nay. The

9 voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish ? Have all voted who

lo wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 26,

11 the Nays are 3l, none Vo ting Present. The amendm ent fails.

Fur ther amendments?12.

SECRETARY:13.

Amendment No. 5 offered by Senator McMillan.l4.

PRESIDENT:l5.


SENATOR MCMILLAN :

Mr. President , this is the amendment th at... that ends withl8.

thirty-tw o and what ik says on top, I believe, % McMi1lan-32.

This is the amendment whose explanation is...is very simple.20.

It eliminates the provision in 2569 which would call for21.

distribution of the revenue under this tax to be put into22.

two ki tties. First of all, 51. some odd percentage points23.

in the Cook County kitty and then 48 percent in the downstate24.

kitty. Wh at this would do, is- .have a procedure for dist ribution25.

that a llows ev ery unit to have dollars access to the fund based26.

on exactly what was collected on their behalf at the last known27.

year. There's no justification that I can f ind, in looking at28.

a11 of th e data that has been collected which would ind icate29.

any reason why we should arbitrarily G ke fifty-two per cent30.

of the revenue raised under this rep lacement tax and put3l.

in a special tax related to Cook County and onl y put forty-eight32.

percent downstate , when: in fact , collections r e a lo t Closer33.

% being G e reversal of those two percentages r ather G an

2. in that way.

PRES D ENT:

Any discussion? Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

6. Well, th ank you , Mr. President and members of the Senate.

7 I rise in opposition. Senator, can give you the justification8 you need if you start looking at th e tax ye r '72 - '73 levy

versus collection,'73 -974 '74 -'75 '75-'76 and '76-.77.9. r '

The aeer age collection State-wide for Cook County r e 53.4l0.

per cent. I don''t know if anyone is going to stand up andll.

dispute that, but thatfs kh at they are. And...and r ight no wl2.

the... the formula puts out to 48 and can't see ofl3.

any fairer'disEribûtioh than that. is true' that the last

c ouple of years the collection rate has gone d own in Chicago

and C ook County dramatica lly, but that doesn't me an thatl6.

those corporate property tax/ayers A en't still up the re andl7.still not liable f or the tax. I also remind ever y memberl8

. ,

here th at we are no t ta V ing about wh at should have beenl9.

collected. Both bills and a1l the proposals ncw before this2D.

B ody, as I understand it, deal wi th f actoring in collections.21.

We're not talking about, when we talk about five hundred and22.

thirty-three million or four hundred and ninety-nine million23.

or four hundred and sixty milli on, the three figures...th at24.

have bounced around us in this' Chamber, ab out extensions.2b.

Extens ions last year were eight hundred million dollars and26.

we're just ta > ing about rep Mcing collections with a fa ctor

for growth and this just sa ys that wha t our average collections28.

were over the last five ye= sr they ought to be stabilized29.

at 5V 48 and that's exactly wh at this bill would-nwould reserve30.

those figures and deny % m any of the kaxpayers in Illinois, any3l.

kind of re H es G te tax relief.32.

' PRESIDENT:33.

122

Further discussion? Senator Schaffer.

SENATOR SCHAFFER:

I just want to comment that it's funny when...any.-ever...4. anyone needs any gas tax or someplace to dump their sludge, they

5. khink of the collar counc es,but when they think of preferential

6. treatment, suddenly wedre downstate aqain.

PRESIDENT:

8. Is there any further discussion? Senator McMillan may

9 close.

lg SENATOR MCMILLAN:

11 The Constitution calls this particular case for a

tax that will replace revenues lost by local units of govern-12.

a ment. We a11 want to provide relief for real estate, but thisl .

is not the purpcse of this Act . I t would be nice in lots ofl 4 .

our instances if we could come up with data that just happensl 5 .to f it what we want to do . The f act of the matter is , what needsl 6

.

to be replaced is . . . is the dollars that local units of govern-l 7 .

ment are losing . If you want to go way back t.o 19 7 2 , we couldl 8 .

probably come up with lots of things that would benefit onel9.

group or another. But it should be very clear that what this20.

does by putting in the 52/48 arbitrary percentages is, give21.

a great deal more money to Cook County and relatively,22.

hurts, relative to what Cook County is getting. the rest

of downstate, which ov er tim' e has had an excellent record of24.

collections and a record that's been continuing while the25.

record in Cook County has been gradually declining. would26. .

seek a favorable roll call.27.

PRESIDENT:28.

Senator McMillan has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 529.

to House Bill 2569. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those opposed30.

will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish?3l.

Have al1 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question32.

the Ayes are 28, the Nays are 30, none Voting Present. The

l23

amendment fails. Further amendments?

2. SECRETARY:

. - Amendment No. 6 offered by Senator McMillan and it is 35.

PRESIDENT:



7. This is the amendment which was recently distributed to

8 your desk which says McMillan New Rate Amendment on it and

it has 2.25 percent rate on the left. There was an earlier9.

one distributed yesterday which...which is not being offeredl0.

and which this one is being substituted for it. What this billll.

does, in order to give us a chance to lower the rate to absolutely12.

the lowest rate possible,is...is to change the start-up datel3.

back to January 1 of 1979 and lowers the rate to 2.25 percent.

PRESIDENT:

senator McMillan has moved the adoption of Amendment No.l6.

Is there any discussion? Senator Bruce.l7. .

SENATOR BRUCE:l8.

Well, thank you Mr...Mr. President and members of the Senate.19.

This is the amendment which has only the new rate. The liability20.

has moved to January the 1st. I wonder if Senator M cMillan21.

on your- .you're indicating that this will raise two hundred22.

and forty-four million dollars. Over what period of time23.

will you be able to raise that amount of money?24.

PRESIDENT:25.


SENATOR MCMILLAN:

In order to be distributed by the end of the first fiscal28.

. . .to be distributed by September under the distribution plan29.

that is in 2569.30.

RRESIDENT:3l.

Senator Bruce.32.

SENATOR BRUCE:33.

l24

i1;

1

t1- i1l raise your amount of j'Are.-are you saying that we w2. money to four hundred and sixty-eight million you need to 1

I3* replace by September of 19802 Is that.-is that the date? j

l4. PRESIDENT: 15. senator McMillan.


7. That amount would be raised by May of 1980.

8. P RESIDENT:

9. senator Bruce.

l0. SENATOR BRUCE:

1l. Well, 1...1 think that is the flaw, that first of al1 this

l2. moves back the date to January the 1st and I don't know who

l3. you guys talked to, but we met with the State Chamber of Commerce

l4. yesterday an'd talked to them about the idea of moving back the

l5. liability date to January the 1st and they said absolutely no

l6. way are they going to support legislation which increases their

17 liability this year. January the 1st was absolutely not acceptable

lg to them. Secondly, this bill does not raise the amount of money

19 that you need to go back to local governments. Sure, we can

2o. raise this amount of money by May of next year on a liability

21 date beginninq January the 1st. So you knock business in the

22 head because in September of this year they will pay their' 2a quarterly income tax returns for nine months of liability.

24 They will pay their personal property tax in September and'1 2s. then we're not even going to raise enough money, but by May

of next year, we can start paying back local governments,26.

who, by the way in September, started issuing tax anticipation27.

' 2: warrants and paying interest. Now this bill you can move

it to May or August, you could go to a Ewo percent rate if29.

. you had the collection period from January the lst until30. .

AugusE or September or November or December of last year...3l.

or next year. The problem is you have to raise the amount32. )of money collected and the liability of the taxpayer ought j33.

34. to be *he amount needed: not that you can spend it over seventeen

1. 2 5 i' j

1@

I

or eighteen months. So because this bill does not even come

2. close to raising what even the Governor's Task Force, four

). hundred and sixty million dollars says, I would r ise in

4. opposition to it.

5 PRESIDENT:

6 Any further discussion? Senator Nimrod.

7 SENATOR NIMROD:

g Mr. D esident, it seems to me that the last speaker, Senator

Bruce selectively supports and disagrees with the State Chamber9.

of Commerce on any issues that seem to benefit their cause.

I would think that the overall picture would be, if we want

to improve the business cl imake, you know wh at has to happen.l2.

And certainly this amendment is a g ood one.13.

PRESIDENT:l4.

Any further discusslon? Senator McMillan may close.l5.

SENATOR MCMILLAN:l6.

For the first year, businesses are going to be socked17.

with about the same amount. Because under both bills wel8.

try to raise the amount thatls needed to be replaced the

first year. If they start August...l at a three percent2û.

rate, theylre going to raise the same amount by.-by next

May as under this case. I've talked with the Chamber- .hundreds22.

of times and they have never once indicated that they want23.

a three percent rate forèver instéad of a 2.25 perceht rate that24. '

Would begin a little bit earlier. understand what youdre25.

saying, but I can't understand any businessman who expects26

to be in business longer than the end of the year who would27.

op t for a thoee percent additional tax rate in stead of a28

2.25 percent rate that would begin a little earlier.29.

PRESIDENTI

A11 right. Senator McMillan has moved the adoption of

Amendment No. 6 to House Bill 2569. Those in favor of the32.

amendment will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The33.

126

1. vo ting is open. Have a11 voted who w ish? Have al1 voted who

2. wish? Take the record. On that ques tion the Ayes are 26, the

). Nays are 32y none Voting Present. The amendment fails. Further

4. amendments?

5. SECRETARY:

6. Amendment No. 7 offered by Senator McMillan. Senator

7. McMillan it's number 26.

g PRES IL'ENT :

Senakor M dMil3an.9.

lc SENAT OR MCMILLAN:

lz This is the amendmenk that says seven per oent, I believe

iE says M dMillan, seven percent cap on it, but it % the onel2.

that has 26. Ehat this does is s ay that there wi 11 be a mechanism13.

by kh ich the liability and the payments to any corporate tax-14.

payer will no t increase more than seven pe rcent a year. Thel5.

basis of this is quike s imple. His torically the gro wth patternl6.

for the...for the corpor ate incune t ax has been at a rate ofl7.

from ten to t/elve per oent. On the othe r hand, the Cor poratel8.

Person H Property Taxes growth r aG has been, depending on19.

what part of the State you live in, fr un 4.2 percent to 5.,20.

depending on how you analyze it, between four and f ive and2l.

a half percent. I t wa s felt that by having a ca p of sev en22.

' percent , ev er #body who is a local unit of governm ent in23.

t receipt of these taxes, will be pr otected and that this wi n24.

, prov H e some cap on the liability that wi 11 accrue every25.

; business, particular ly if this bill that is...is now rem ains. z6. ,I

intact stays at a very high three percent rate , 1 M use after27.

awh i1e the three percent r ate is going to raise cons M erably,28.

fr ighteningly more money than is needed to replace and at. 29.1 least this seven per œ nt cap would put some l kmit on thatl 30.' gr owth.

3l. '* P RESIDENT :

32.A nator McMillan has moved the adoption of Amendment N o. 7.

33.

127

H there any dis œ ssi on ? Sen ator B ruce.

S ENATOR BRUCE:

Th ank you , M r. President and members of the S enate. Senae r

4* McMillan is right that the Illinois Income Tax on cor porations

5* has cert ainly fluctua G d . A n; we are saying to local governments

6. tha t no longer is there any s M bi lity in your revenue grow th .

That's been about f ive percent on collections on persona l

8. N operty G x on corpor ations. But since 1972 when we went to

9. G e Corporate Inc une T ax to 1978 # the fluctuation in collections

l0. in tha t particular fund have fluctuated between f ive m rcent

ll. growth and twenty H ev en per œ nt gr owth. What this amendment

really says is in bad times you suffer, i n good times khen

corp orations are making a profit and have the ab ility to

l4. pay the tax, they don't have to p ay it. Now them is...for

l5. several years we heard the arguments from ev eryone, including

16. M dividuals Khen they paid pers onal proper W tax , get rid of

l7. the personal property G x that's not based on ihcome. When I make

18. a.-when I have a good prof it, it's A l right, but when

19. have a loss I still have to pay it. And so we have listened

2o. to them in 1971 and got rid of it on individu H s and now

21. in 1979 we're getting rid of it on corporations. It has

22. to go on income. And if no one m àkes any profit next year,

no one is going to pay a d Dne of Cor por ate Incdme Tax. And

24. then what happens Eo G e units of local gover nment. Now:

as. your > ojections, you talk ab out tremendous growth rates.

26 I n. your own budget book, I think cn page 29 oç 30, it

a7. says wedre g oing to r aise f ive hundred and four million

28 dollars this year in cor por ate income , wedre go ing to

29 raise four hundred and ninetv million dollars next year.

ac Now f o> s when you look at 504 and you go to 490 next

al year , Eha t doesn't seem to me to be any five or six or

ten = twelve percent gro wth. Ik's just not there. And

H your budget b ook isn't accurave, let's have some accura%e

l28

!!

.!

;* j,

F. )..

l I 1 f

'

''

. figu res. I m told that th at s now 522, but it s still flat

2. ra te growth for next year and if the re's no grow % at a ll,

3. where does local gover nment go. Theylve had a five percent

4. growth. They ought to c ontoue to enjo y that fiye percent

5. growth and therels nothing that says that if we have an

6. increase , we find a 1ot of money g oing back to loc al govern-

7. ment that bills canno t be put in here to alloca G that money

8. to G x relief in the way of real es ta G tax r elief. I thi nk

9. this amendment works the wrong wa y agains t the poor fellow

lc who's going M pay re al estate kaxes in Illir is by putti ng

11 a cap on khat c œ m rations are going to pay in the good years

2 and making him suffer and p ay his rea 1 es tate taxes in the1 .

bad year s .l 3 .

PRESIDENT :l 4 .

senator...any further discussion? Senator McMillan mayl5.

close.l6.

SENATOR MCMILLAN :l7.

I would merely repeat that this is a not a da y on khi dh18.

we are dis cussion as the main subject: rea 1 esta te tax relief.l9.

I would support real extate tax relief. But the 'pur pose of20.

this legis M tion and the requirement under the Constitution21.

and the Court Order is that we replace the Cor porate Persona l22.

Property Tax. With reg r d to the budget bo ok, that is not23.

my budget bo ok. I don't know Who you were referring to# but24.

it's not my budget book. As long as we were talking about2b.

what was a reasonable ra G on bus iness for replacem ent, then26.

' we didn't offer a cap. But when it gets to the p lace where27

.' an exorbitant rate, l ike three percent, which will ra ise28

.

far more money thaA is . necessary V a rep M cem ent is offered , .29.

I don't know ho w anybody c ould say tha E we don't need some kind30.9

! of a reasonable cap % p revent r ais ing far more mone y th an is3l.

needed to replace the Corporate 'P'érkonal Prèpekty taxes that are32. . q

lost.33.

34. FNFA IDENT: 11

l29 1l)

. j. 1

Sena tor M d'lsllan h % moved the adoption of Amendment No.

to House Bill 2569. Those in favor ui 11 vote Aye. Those opposed

3. will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have H l voted who wish?

4. Have al1 v oted kh o wish? Take the record. On that ques G on

5. the Ayes are the Nays are none Voting Present . The

6. anendment fails. Fur ther anendments?

S ECRETARY :

8. Amendment No. 8 offe red by Senator Regner.

9. PRESIDENT:

10. ...Sen ator Regner.

SENATOR REG NER :

l2. Mr. President and members. This amendment provides for the

l3. elimination of for eign inc cme from the Illinois base i ncome.

14. takes care of dividends, interest and other income from

ls. f areign sour ces which would not be subject to rep Mcement

l6. tax because they are not p ar t of the Illinois...lllinois

17 oper ations. I move for its adoption.

l8. P X SIDENT:

l9. Senator Regner has moved the adoption of Amendm ent No. 8

2o. to House Bi H 2569. Is there any d O cussion? Senator Maragos .

2l. S ENATO R MARAGOS:

Ques tion of the sponsor.

PR ES D ENT :

24 IndiO tes he'll yield. Senator Marag os.

a5 SENATOR MARAGOS:

What Wi 11 be the fis ca1 im pa ct of your amendment, Sena tor26.

27 Recner?

28 P RES D ENT :

2 : Sena t or Reg ne r.

SENATOR REGNER :30.

senator Maragos, I'm Y t sure whàt is, but in discussing31.

with Senator McMillan, who worked very hard on this bill: he32.

said it's a very minimal amount.33.

34. PRESIDENT:

Senator Maragos.

1.SENATOR MARAGOS:

2. , so : millions of dollars,Well, like when m u re t H king n u3. , j yue yo kno w... z'myou re talking about minim al amoun tsrbut I d 14 . ,sure with a1l your geniuses and staff over there in the Governor s5. ff ou should give us a d & ect answer on this question.sta , y6* m ESIDENT:

7* senator Regner indicates he'll yield. Senator McMillan.

B* SENATOR MCMILLAN:

9. A.- the very d irect an swer to tha t is...khe exact same

l0. answer I responded to a simi u r question to S enator Bruce and

1l. that is about betueen ten and twelve million dollars and when

it...when it refers & the five hund red and thir ty...five

hundred and thirty-three million dollars that- uthat you're r aising

l4. under the bill. We can easily aff ord that and I thi nk it's only

l5. just to do that to some of the businesses that are likely Eo be

16. leav ing the State if we don' t N ovide some tax relief.

l7. PRES D ENT:

l8. Further- .sena tor Mar agos.

l9. S ENATOR M ARAGOS:

20. Senator Regner or Sena tor McM illan, does this amendment

2l. also hav e the question of consolidaG d returns in it?

22. BRESIDENT:

.. .senator Reg ner.

SENATOR REGNER:

25. No.

26. PRES D ENT:

27. Further discussion ? Sena tor Egan.

28. S EN ATOR EGAN:

29. Th ank you, Mr. Presi/ent, m Gmhers of the S enate.

30. would like to just explore the number of corporaiions that

3l. are...are affected...by the amendment. kno, that the

32. Caterpiller Cor poration is the principal one. It will increase

33. thtir G x by a substantial amount, but I'm cûrioùs to know

34. h ow m any others that would be affected. I know that I11 kno is

131

% a grea t exporter and if they s o1d the goods to I ndia na,

2. in I ndiana or in Wisconsin, they w ould no t pay a G x. But

just because they sell them to a foreign couhtry, to Canada,4. to Mexico, any cther foreign country , they have to pay a tax.

5. Now, it seems to me to be a...a...a mistake to thwa rt the

6. efforts of Illinois c A porations just because they sell in

7. foreign lands. Any idea, Senator McMillan?

a PRESIDENT:

: ie nator Mchlillan .

lc SENATOR MCMI LLAN:

sl I n response to the question, I can't give you a number that

would be accurate. But we're not talking about the sales th row-12.

back, we're ta lking about exclusion of- .of-..net rents and13.

roya lties, patent and copyright royalties and so fqrth, thatl4.

relate to.n that have as #heir source the foreign p r t of the

business.l6.

'PRES D ENT:l7.

Sena M r Eg an.18.

SENATOR EGAN:l9.

My rem = ks are addressed to the wrong anendment. I'm...20.

I beg your pardon.2l.

PR ES IDENT:22.

A11 right. Fur ther. discussion ? Senator Bruce.23.

SENATOR BRUCE:24.

Th ank you, Mr. President and members of the S enate.

s tand in opposition to this, first of all, the first th ing welve26.

always been told by business community is that they would like27.

Eo have the tax kept as clean as poss ible. And what you are2B.

doing is div id ing and deciding uhich people in the State of29.

I llinois are go ing to be benefited by changes in the income30.

tax base and perhaps tha t ought to be addressed in other31. 'legislationw not in replacement tax. Sure, it's going to

32.cost ten to twelve million dollars, but who m akes it up.

l32

t. What youdre saying is that a comp any that has foreign operations

ouqht to get a break and the guy that wo rM in Illinois ought

3. not to get one. Now,there aren't m any retailer s in Illinois

4. who are going to benefit from foreign K urce sales or dividends

5. or interests or license fees or copyrights and /atents. But6. I can tell you, most of the income tax is not derived from

foreign based corporations or corporations based Illinois

8. that have foreign source income. It's based on the little

9. guy in the main streets of Illinois who pay a four percent

lo. income tak on every dime they make. And I don't think you

ought to say to the large companies, that look, here's a

little benefit for you and the other guys are going to

a make it up, 'cause fellas, there's one thing for sure, whatever1 .

your tax base is # you have to drive the rate against it . Andl 4 .

if the rate doesn 1 t generate enough money to replace thel 5 .

6 property tax in 11 linois , it ' s going to be replaced byl .

somebody else . Either by the little guy , by a higher rate ,l 7 . .

or it ' s going . . .to be replaced by the real estate taxpayer .l 8 .

And that ' s the pàroblem we have with this amendment. Finally .l 9 .

and...and...the amendment adds one thing that I didnlt think20.

anyone was going to ask for and that is to allow deduction

for management service fees. Even the Governor's people said

that they- .they wouldn't allow that. That went beyond what

they considered a...a proper deduction. don't know whether you24.

what that means, that is the deduction allowed for what one division2$.

of a corporation charges another division of a corporation for26.

for services rendered to their own company. Now that folks,27.

you can just jack up as high as you want to and you're going28.

to allow that as the deduction. just dondt...T can't see29.

that, license fees, too far, management license fees just30.

goes a lot too far.- royalities rents you can at least compute,31.

but that part of your bill is a...it just goés beyond,think, rationality.33

.

l33

P RESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator McMillan.


4. I .1 would only point out that the management fees to

5. which the Senator refers are not included in this particular

6. amendment and would indicate further that our initial attempt

was to do what we could to get that rate down for small

8. taxpayers and large taxpayers alike, but that has failed.

9. PRESIDENT:

10. ...Oh, Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

12. Well, it.- it's more parliamentary. I may have read the

l3. wrong one. I will apologize. O n the bottom of page on

14. line 35, says/'net income from management, service, or

l>. license fees.'' Am I reading the wrong amendment? Andrif so,

l6. ...what was the LRB number on this one, Senator?

l7. PRESIDENT:

lg. Senator Regner.

19 SENATOR REGNER:

2o Senator Bruce, I had distributed an amendment yesterday

and I withdrew it today and there was another one that.- that

we're doing right now, because there were errors in the one

that was distributed yesterday and that's apparenEly what

24 YOu have.

P kESIDENT:25.

A1l right. An'y further discussion? Senator Regner, you26.

wish to close?27.

SENATOR REGNER:28.

Just very shortly. Since the personal property tax applied29.

only to Illinois property, the base for the replacement tax30.

should be limited to Illinois operations and I u k for a favorable3l.

roll call.32.

FRESIDENT:33.

l34

senator Reqner has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 8

to House Bill 2569. Those in favor of the amendment will

vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open.

4. Have a11 voted who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Take

5. the record. On that question the Ayes are 26, the Nays

6. are 32, none Voting Present. The amendment fails. Further

amendments?

8. SECRETARY:

9. Amendment No. 9 offered by Senator DeAngelis and Senator

1c. DeAngelis it is...hasn't got a final number, but the last

1l. ...it's NJWAM.

l2. PRESIDENT:

senator DeAngelis.

14. SENATOR DeANGELIS:

15 Thank you, Mr. President and member...persons of the Senate.

16 I wonder if I could hear Senator Bruce's objections and then 1111

l7.

l8. P RESIDENT:

19. He...he wants to tailor his explanation to meet your objection,20. Senator Bruce.

2l. SENATOR DeANGELIS:.

22. That's right.

23. 'PRESIDENT:

24. Senator DeAngelis.


26. One of the largest problems facing our country today is

27. inflation. And one of the major causes of inflation is both28. are on favorable balance of trade and our dollar defic it, making

29. our currency weak in foreign markets. Under the current proposal

3o. sales to foreign countries are considered local transactions.

3l. What this amendment would do would omit those sales to foreign

32 designations from the sales factor which is one of three factors

used in apportioning ihcome and avoids punishihg companies who are

34. shipping (continued on next page)

135

t.

2.

1. overseas. In addition, it leaves more than sufficient revenue

2. for the replacement. I move for its adoption.

3. PRESIDENT:

4. Senate- .is there any discussion? Senator Egan.

SENATOR EGAN:

6. Yes, this was the amendment that I had just questioned.7. Do you have any idea,as of how, how many corporations outside

g of Caterpillar that it affects?

9 PRESIDENT:

lo Senator DeAngelis.

11 SENATOR DeANGELIS:

I canlt tell you how many corporations, but the net impactl2.

is somewhere between eight and ten million dollars. A figurel3.

which I think is high, but Iî11 accept that figure for rightl4.

15 ZOW'

PRESIDENT:l6.

Senator Egan.

SENATOR EGAN:l8.

Well, it seems to me that punishes Illinois corporations

just because they export their goods. It makes absolute...20.no sense to me...absolutely no sense to me that this should be2l

.

part of the bill and I am opposed to it. I...I'm in favor22.

of your amendment and opposed to the idea of excluding it.23.

P RESIDENT:24.

Further discussion? Senator Bruce.2b.

SENATOR BRUCE:26.

Well...senator Egan, you want to clarify what you just27.

said? Yeah, would you?28.

PRESIDENT:29.

Senator Egan.30.

SENATOR EGAN:3l.

said that I am in favor of the amendment, Senator Bruce,32.

because I think it's illogical to punish an Illinois corporation33.

l36

just because he exports his product.-to a foreign country.

2. see no difference selling to Canada- .than I do to selling to

the State of New York.

4. PRESIDENT:

Al1 right. Further discussion? Senator Bruce.

6. SENATOR BRUCE:

7 Yeah, well...the problem is we're now into the Illinois

g Income Tax Act and how you compute base income is based

on three factors, sales, property and pam oll. And what you're9.

saying is that.- the.- the sales made outside of the Unitedl0.

States ought not to somehow be included in income. We havell.

a three factor basis for the Illinois Income Tax and youl2.

apportion between the sales the property and the payroll.l3.

Senator DeAngelis, disagree with Senator Egan. I donltl4.

see how this does...do harm to a company that's based here.l5.

The throw-back arrangement on foreign sales.l think will16.

not be beneficial to companies located in Illinois that do

not have extensive foreign sales. And that...that's why Il8.

stand in opposition to it.l9.

.'PRESIDENT:20.

Further discussion? Senator Bloom.2l.

SENATOR BLOOM:22.

Well, thank you. 1...1 rise in support of this amendment23.

for obvious reasons from where I'm...from. But the arguments24.

advanced by the. last speaker on the prior amendment and on this2b.

amendment is a mixture of apples and oranges and basically26.

a smoke screen with a little class warfare thrown in. What

wedre about today is replacing a tax on tangible property28.

in Illinois and we should be tieing the replacement tax to29.

Illinois operations and we should be making it as min imal as30. '

possible and that's the long and the short of it.31.

PRESIDENT:32.

Is there any further discussion? Senator McMillan.33.

l37

l!1!t' y- j1

. SENATOR MCMILLAN: j2 ident, members of the Senate. I would merely rise i'. Mr. Pres

i3. and say that under the high income tax rate under this particular 1

. I4. tax as it now stands, we can afford this. I think it's very '

5. clear that the few instances in...in which there will be some

6. substantial relief will not in any way cost any other taxpayers

7. and I would merely point out that we have a 1ot of snall businesses

8. in this State kho make their livelihood because they can sell

9 to or provide p arts or...or tools and so forth for a 1ot of...

10 lot of the la rger c orporations that are in the export bus M ess.

11 And sb I think there is benefit in providing for this particular

yz ...exemption which will accrue not only to the specific businesses

involved, but lots of others like the small parts manufacturers 'l3.

wh o happen to be in my dis % ict, wh o have the ir livelihood14.

stemming from some of the exporters in the State.l5.

P RESIDENT:l6.

Further discussion? Senator Maragos.l7.

SENATOR MARAGOS:l8.

Will the sponsor yield to a question?l9.

PRESIDENT:2 () .

He indicakes he will yield. Senatcr Maraqos.2l.

S ENATOR MARAGOS: '22.

Wh o has Ehe right to elect...unde r Your amendment? Is it' 23.

a1l mandatory or does the taxpayer itself have the oppor tunity24.

to elect under that...25.

P V SIDING OFFICER: (SENATO R SAVICKAS)26.

Senator De Angelis.27.

SENATOR DeANGELIS:28.

Sen ator Marag œ , I don't understand your questi on.29.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SEN ATO R SXVI CKAS)30.

Senator Marag œ .3l.

S ENATOR M ARAGOS:32.

The question is# who dec ides whether they can take that33.

138- j

11

!

)!l

1. income out? Th e taxpayer , the foreign,inc ome out of the tax payer 16l2

. or the Department of Revenue? ' j3. PRESIDING XFICER: (SENATOR SAV ICK M) 1

14. Senator DeAngelis. j5. SENATOR DeANG ELIS:

6. Senator M aragos, they are no t taking out income, G ey are

7. taking out their sales that are- .overseas sales fr un the /

8. app ortionment factor.

9 P RESIDING OFFI CE R: (SENATOR S 'VICKAS)

lû Senator Maragos.' 1l. SENATOR MARAGOS:

I understand that: Senator De Angelis , b'ut that's stilll2.

taking income from % œ e sales that % not goinq to be tax àble.l3.

PRESIDING OFFIC ER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l4.

Senator DeAngelis.l5.

SENATOR DeANGELIS:l6.

There are th ree fa ctors used in apportioning that income.17.

Wh at youdre doing is d iminishing one of the factors by thel8.

amoun t of overseas s H es.l9.

PRESID ING OFFICER: (SEN ATOR S AVICKAS)20.

Senator Marag œ .2l.

SENATOR IYRRAG OS:22.

Mr...23.

l P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)i 24.

Senator Maragos.: 25.

1 SEN ATOR MARZG OS:26.

' But you still haven't answered, is that a right qiven to27.

every tax payer to do with out.-with out the Department of Revenue28.

, hav ing the authority to deny it or not deny it, th at's my29.

: que stion?30.

' PRESIDING OFFICER: (SEN ATo R SAVI CK AS)31.

' Senator DeAngelis.32.

SENATOR DeANGEL IS :33.

139 jè

'

!.)h

It's drne aut am aticall y, because you...you end up with

2. th at figure. It's done in th e formula of calcula G on.

PRESID ING OFFICER; (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

4. SenaO r Maragos.

SENATOR M ARAGO S:

6. You s till are missing my question, Sen ator DeAngelis.

Wh o...d oes a taxpayer autonatically have the right to

8 determine that income? Or does it h ave to be given to him by

: Ehe Depar tnent of Revenue whether it gives them the authority

lc to take that income out ? That's my question.

11 PRESIDING OF FICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Sen ator DeAngelis.12.

SENATOR DeANGEL D :l3.

Well. 19 11 try one more time. I...you know we Mediterraneansl4.

shouldn't have this difficuli W , but...foreign sales are re portedl5.

by a1l companies, al1 youbre doing is deductiœ the foreignl6.

sales, tha t's allj And...

PRESIDING W F ICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l8.

Senator ...

SEN ATOR DeANGELIS :2D.

. . .itls a m atter of audited s ta G ment.2l.

PRESIDING OFF ICERI (SEN ATOR SAV ICKAS)22.

Senator Maragos.23.

SENATOR MARAGOS:24.

A1 1 you're saying is that if the taxpayer wanta ..he automatically25.

can take those deductions against his income tax. That's what I26.

was just trying to find out because there are some proposals, that's27.

why was askinq, Senator DeAngelis, that the department had the28. .

right to allow it in certain cases and not allow it in other29.

cases...you're telling me it's automatic. That's what the concern30.

is. Now, do you have one more question? What's the fiscal3l.

impact...based on the past returns as to the- .your amendment?32.

'PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)3 3 . 5'

14 0

:* Senator DeAngelis.


3. Well, right now, we would have to guess at a figure. The

4. figure the Department of Revenue comes up with is about. . .BOB

5. is eight to ten million. Ehink it's a little high, but 1'11

6. accept that figure.


8. Senator Maragos.

9. SENATOR MARAGOS:

l0. And, of course, youlre only talking about the replacement

1l. .- facet of this tax, not the...the whole income tax. Is that

l2. Correct?


Senator DeAngelis.

SENATOR DeANGELIS:

16 Senator Maragos, I'm glad you brought up that point. It

17 only applies to the Corporate Personnel Property Tax Replacement,

l8. Correct.

19 FRESIDING OFFICER: ( SENATOR SAVICKAS)

20 Senator Maragos.

21 SENATOR MARAGOS:'

That's why I'm bringing it up because they used to tell in22.

the amendment that I had originally, which was...it w;s defeated,23.they would tell me fifty and sixty million, but it had a different24

.

lock in because included a1l income tax. Thank you.


Further discussion? Senator Egan.27.

SENATOR EGAN:28.

Yes, thank you, Mr. President, members of the Senate. Senator29.

Bruce, 1...1 fully respect the.- the problem that you have. You30.

want the bill in the shape in which you wish it to. be in when it's3l.

voted on . I'm against the principle of an income tax. I donrt think32.

it replaces the tax. 1...1 have some pride in authorship oE33.

34. m#. own billz I'm opposed to your bill and I will support you35. as you w ish. And when I vote No, I'm going to hold m y nose.

14 l

;q

?

jvb

)'It

1* PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS) ft.

2. Is there further discussion? If not, Senator DeAngelis moves

3. for the adoption of Amendment No. 9 to House Bill 2569. A1lj

4. those in favor will vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The

5. voting .is open. Have all voted who wish? Have a11 voted who

6. wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 31, the

7. Nays...the Ayes are 26, the Nays are 3ls Anendment No. 9

B. having. failed to receive a majority is declared lost. Any

9. further amendments?

10. SECRETARY:

11. Amendment No. 10 offered by Senators Grotberg and Moore

12 and it's not an LRB An endment.

13 P RESID ING OFF I CER: (SENATOR SAVICKM )

lj W:11, they b oth rose. S enat or Grotberg.

15 SENATOR G ROTBERG:

16 Yes, does it not being an LRB Anendment put the cur se of

17 G e sev en white geese on it? Because this is an Illino O State

la Chamle r of CGwnerce Am endment. The same organization that you

19 were raving about, Sena tor Bruce. And it just simply...wi thout

2c this amendment the replacem en* income tax will be added back

to the Federal taxable inc ane to arrive at the Illinois base2l.

22 income in determining the tax. Now this add-b ack was not

0. requ H ed for the...corporate 'Personal'pro perty Tax nor will$ 4 D .' pa it be required of the invested capital tax on.- imposed on

l tilities. We need this to make it fair for everybcdy concerned. 2b. Q

l a6. as they deal with establishing their taxable base. And.. . .I would

be gladly answer any and a1l questions and those that I can'tr27.

for God's sake, somebody help me. But it will cost fourteen -28.

million dollars, about, and I...do you have a fast answer as to29.

when you going to 1et us adopt it? I'd like to keep the debate30.

down. Youlll take this one? What's Ehe answer? Okay. Roll call.31.

P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS) J32. - )

Is there further discussion? Senator McMillan.33.

iJp. -''' * '-' 1

é

1j'

1. SENATOR MCMILIZAN :

2 ' ld just like to begin by saying I just wish SenatorI . . . I wou3 * E an could have held his nose and voted Yes

. It would have. . .

4 * would have helped . In response Eo the question , this is probably

5 * one amendment that . . .that I can see a 1ot of support f or because

6 * this does not cost the State , this prevents the State f rom picking

1 . up a si zeable windf a11 . The old Corpor ate Personal Proper ty Tax

8 . was deductable from the income tax . The invested capital tax

on u tilities that we ' re imposing under , whichever bill comes

l0. forth, is deductable. Wh at this says is that the income tax

ll. that is, in fact, the Corporate Personal Property Tax Replac ement

l2. is deductable from the regular Corporate Income Tax. What it

l3. means is the State won't end up with a fourteen plus million

14. dollar windfall and instead the businesses that are having this

l5. huge tax kmposed upon them, will have some small amount of relief.

l6. Not in what they're paying into the Corporate Personal Property

Tax' Replacement,Fund, but wh at additional Corporate Income Tax

l8. they would be paying.

l9. P RESIDING OFFICE R: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

2o. Senator M oore. We have S enator Moore, Bruce, Knuppel, G rro 11

2l. and Buzbee. Senator M oore.

22. SENAT OR MOORE:

7: Thank you, Mr. D esident and members of the Senate. I riseœ', 'e

'

@

24. in suppo rt of this Amendm ent No. This does nothing m ore than

2s to allow G e replacement tax paid by a corporation to be d educted

26 from Ehe adjusted grosà income of your Feder al tax return. Just7 like we, as individuals, deduct our real estate taxes. And it has2 .

2a. ... this is al1 this amendment does, 1...1 think th at, you know ,

29. we're a 11 concerned about a business climate in Il1 inois and so

ap forth. I guess Senator Bruce indicated, 1'11 yield to Sena tor

31 . Bruce.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCFAS )3 .

:j Senator Bruce .3 .

14 3

1* SENATOR BRU CE:

2- Well, Senator M oore, webrea no t talking about the Federal'

3. income tax, any S tate taxes paid r e deduction aga inst Feder al

4. income tax. So , I m ean, a H eady deductable and wi H continue

5. to be deductable'whatever happens wi Eh this b ill. Th is relates

6. to the deduction of Iàlinois income tax from an Illino % income

7. tax , that's the only point involv ed.

8. PRESIDING OF H C ER: (SENATOR S AVICKAS)

9. ...senate r Bruce. Senator Knuppel.

lc. SENATOR KNUPPEL:

1l. Well we realize- .we realize what m u're saying and we're

12 working on th at and we may have s onething on it, but the...this

13 p articular amendment only compcunds the felony of.- of misapplying

this G x because th ose corpor aG ons th at are paper co rpor aG onsl4.

and didn't have an y personal r operty tax will be getting thel5. .

benefit even though they don't deserve The people who arel6.

entitled to this benef it are not those paper cor porations, bu t17.

those cor porations with inven tor ies of personal pr operty or'l8.

larse amounts of personal property. Now, w e'll fi nï some thing

to solve that problem , 1'11 guarantee you, but th O sure as hell20.

don't do it, it only c cnpounds wh at is already ineqûitable.21.

PRESIDING X FICER: (S EN ATOR SAVICKAS)22.

Sena Y r C arroll. Tha t wakn't a question, Senator. You'll23.

have an opportu nity % ...wh at...what...state your point.24.

S EN AT OR G ROTBERG:25.

I want to m ake su re that... G ey... they h A e the right,..this26.

is another case where there were two amendments drifting M ound27.

and I want to make sure that Sena e r Knuppel was addressi œ28. .

G e right one.29.

FRESIDING OFFICER: (S ENATOR SAVICKAS)30.

Well: wha t is y our righ t amendment'? Do you have the numb er?

S ENATOR G ROTBERG:32.

This is the one th at has no LRB number on, Senat o: Knuppel33.

l44

1. and we, th ought we clarified the

2. with this amendment, which we did.

PRES D ING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVI CK AS)

4. Sena tor C= r oll.

SENATOR C ARROLL:

6. Jus t amplifying on wha t Senator Knuppel said. The problem

wi % b oth versions, Senator Gro tberg, is that youdre giving

8. a tax b reak to the person who never paid m rsonal N operty tax

: Ln the pas t and therefore nev er had a deduction in the past

lc. and now y ou are giv ing a new deduction: not replacing an

11 existing deduction. You kn o#, there's many of us who feel

12 tha t a person who paid personal property t ax and deducted

ya that from his Sta te inc ane tax and now cannot, m ay be entitled

to s one form of reliél, but this doesn't do that. This saysl4.

that anybody who pays this new replac ement tax, deducts thisl5.

6 tax whether or not they paid personal pr operty tax in thel .

past, and that's wr ong. We should only be helping the personl7.

who p aid personal proper ty tax in the p asty h aï a deduetion18.

and has now lostl9.

P RES D ING OFFICER: (S ENATOR SAVICKAS)20.

Senator Buzbee.2l.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Th ank m u, Mr. President. I too rise in qpposition to this23.

amendment. S enat orz I1m in agreement with wh at...with pu k of24.

what youfre attempting to do and that is to give tha t person ,25.

yho in the past has paid a large personal pro per ty tax, such26. .

as an au tomob ile dea 1er , an implemen t dea ler , a co al min ing

company tha t h as a 1ot of large stripi ng equipm ent, or any28.

cor poration th at has a 1ot of personal N o/erty. But wh at29.

the effect of your amendment is going to do, is to g ive a1l30.

of those fo lks, such as banks, which have paid no pers onal3l.

pro perty in the pas t or any other paper cor poration , you 're32.

go ing to give them a deduction which they were never allow ed33.

145

compounding of the problem -

2

.11'j111!

I t.l . to have in th e past becau se they didn t pay per sona 1 r)r oper ty. 12. tax in the past. So I agree with what Senator Knuppel said, 1) we're going to c one up with some solution to those corpo rations

4 Vlo , in f act , hav e b een pay ing personal y)r operty txax in the

past which will allow them to deduct from their new add-on5.

income tax. But your.- your method would go much further6.

thap th at and I thi ùk is beyo nd accep tdbility.7.

P IRF.G IDI NG OFF I CE R: ( SENATOR SAV ICK M )8. '

Sen ator McMillan .9 .

S ENAT OR M (2M1 LLM :l0.

I know I'm speaking for G e second t A e, but I would merelyll.

say to Senator œ rro ll's arguments, G ere are a larg e numberl2.

Y peop le, particular ly under the excessively high taR rate thatl3.

this bill would im pose , th at are g oing to pay a whomping bigl4.

additional tax % at they never paid before. And it seemsl5.

quite odd to me that one is cry ing over providi ng some taxl6.

relief f or the very peop le who ar e N obably most unfairlyl7. '

hit and those are the ones tha t have to pay under this that18.

had no l iability before.l9.

PiV SIDING X FICER: (S EN Ar OR SAV ICKAS )20.

Sen ator D w idson.2l.

S ENATOR D AVIDSON:22.

Jus t correct par t of th e statement that Senator Buzbee23.

said e out b anks not payi'ng persona l pm pe A y tax. They24.

may not d own in your counties, bùt they- .those ba nks in25.

. Sangamon County hav e paid pe = ona 1 pr operty tax.26.

PRESIDING OFF ICER: (S ENATOR SAV ICKM )27.

Senator Berning.28.

SENATOR BERNING :29.

Thank m u, Mr. President. Y œ , somewha t in response' 3o. 1

to sena tor Buzbee and oe ers who h ale spoken lefthandedly3l.

in suppor t of the objective here and m od ify that by saying32.

we will c ome up with s ame Eh ing . I suggest to you tha t this33 9*

'

1.34. is a defens O le amendment and until you do come up with something 1l

l46 j!!i

1. better, we ought to , in a11 good conscience, adop t this anendment.

2. If you then, do come up with a better idea that uorks more

3. l œ ica lly, provides better benefits, then remove this and

4. reinsert whatev er m u develop. Bu* I think it's toG lly unconscionable

5. for us M requ H e, under G e existing Act, which we seek to amend

6. here, that the personal property D placement inc ane tax is not

7 allo wed to be deducted from the total income tax. I think tha tïs

g abs olutely wrong. Th at's compounding an a H eady bad situption.

A nd I suggest this amendment should be adopted.9.

FRE SIDI NG OFF ICER : (S EN ATOR SAV ICKAS)l0.

Further discussion? S enator Buzbee, f or the second time.ll.

SENATOR BUZBEE:l2.

Very briefly, Senat or Dav Mson, your statement just a zmostl3.

completely mis M s the accuracy G a t I was Erying to achieve.14.

Because banks, i n fa ct , whether the y're in Springfield, Chicag o,l5.

Cr b ondale or kherever, pay ver y little pers onal pro pe rty taxl6.

'cause they just d on't hav e mu dh personal property. But whenthey do have itz % ey pay it, I w ould assume.l8

.

PRESIDI NS OFF ICER : (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senatœ Davidson.

S ENATOR DAVIDSON:2l.

Well, just for information, since the banks this ar ea,22.

came to me and M id support it, G ey will be p aying less tax23.

under G e ïncome Tax Corporate Personal Pro m r ty Tax per bank24.

than wh at theylre paying now in persona l qpro per ty tax. There2b.

was only Ehree areas that collected it, Chicago or Coo k County,26.

Sangamon County and the o ther one I don't know, all the o G er27.

banks didn't pay it.28.

P RESID DG OFFICER: (S EN AT OR SAVICKAS)29.

Senator Bloom .30.

SENATOR BLOOM:3l.

Where the banks- .banks make out is that the y pay a Dnost32.

no inc ome M x and the y do pay a substantial amounts of Cor porate33.

l 4 7

t. Per sonal Pro m rty Tax, to cle = that up.

2. PRESIDING QPFICER: (S ENATOR S AVICKAS)

3. Senator Bruce.

4. SENATOR BRUCE:

Well , I think we have to keep in mind two thing s, we're

6. talking ab out the cor porate taxp ayqr. a survey done b y

7. the Dep r tment of Revenue for ty-f ive perce nt of the corpor ations

8. who fi 1ed returns in this State didn't pay a penny 'of ...of

any kind of persona l proper ty tax, didn't even send a d ime

lo in, didn't claim a deduction. Forty-five percent of the retur ns

11 from cor pœ ations don't even c1a im it and S enator Davidson , you

made the stbongest argument I can.-can.think of wh y this shouldn'tl2.

be. You justvaid the bank in your area is goMg to pay lessl3.

income tax th an they did in pers ona l property tax. You kno wl4.

what you're going to a llow them by this anendment? To r educel5.

the liabil ity even more b y deducting the lessor amount of16.

the income tax they're paying. Y ou know, that.-thatfs, ye ah ,

I know, G at's why the banks your are a be f or G is one. When18.

m u get a taxpayer that's paying less money, you qive him an

extr a deduction- .doesn't seem to make a grea t deal of sense.20.

PRE SID D G OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)21.Is there fur ther discussion? Senator Gr oe erg may close22

.

th e deba te.23.

S ENATOR GROTBERG)24.

Well , G ank you. I donft know h o, this turned into25.

a b anking bill because of a11 the cor porat D ns in the State of26.

Illino % they are the leaét in number. And forty-fiv e pe= ent27.

of the cor porations.-banks ...of the corporation didn't pay28.

any per sona l property tax ? I would submit to you sir, that29.

about ninety-eight m rcent of those forty-f ive percent are in30.Chi > go and C ook County and that's wh y I œ n't underst and

31.wHB Senator Buzbee is joining y ou in your opposition to this32

.

good fair shake for all cor porations. It h œ no thing to do33.

148

1. with about ha lf of th e dial ogue th at's gone on here. It is an

2. adjustment to mu r adjusted gross when you determine the base). for which to p e the rep M c ement tax, that's a 11 it is and let's

4 put it on. Le t's do one decent thing here.

5 PRES ID ING OFFICER: (SENATOR S AVICKAS)

6 The ques G on is sh H 1...for khat pur pose does Senator

Mo cr e ar i se ?7.

S ENA TOR MO ORE :8.

For my second time around, Mr . President. Welre all

concerned ab out the business cl ima G , Mr. President and membersl0.

of the Senate. Now we know that a hard thing to do toll.

rep > ce the pers onal prope rty tax . Wedre m andated to do itl2.

and I'm sure we 'll come up with something. But sh ould we, i nl3.effect, crea G anoth e tax upon the business comunit: in the

s % % of Illinois by allo wing another fourteen million dolla rs

to be paid into Ehe Gene rH Revenue Fund through the S tate income16.

tax. don't think th is is right. don't think itîs f àir.l7.

Now there...welre...we're at three percent and it appears asl8.

though weîre going to be a three percent unlesa the Governorl9.

in his wisdom decides to use his Amendatory Veto, which20.

hope he will. But I don't think it's fair to th mw ano ther2l.

four teen million into the Gener H Revenue Fund...22.

PRESIDIN G OFFICER: (SEN ATOR SAVICKAS)23.

Just a momente Senator. For wh at pur pose does Senator24.

Buzbee arise? Sta te your point.

S ENATOR BUZB EE:

Thank you. I donft...l d on't want to get nast y or anyth ing

like this , but I believe the sponsor had already closed his28.

argument and...and...29.

PRESIDI NG OFFI CER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)30.

.. .these are hyphenaed cosponsors , they b oth jumped u p to31.

wspe àk on it.32.

SENATOR BUZBEE:33.34. Very well; I withdraw my point.

149

. '!1(;

:!L1,lf.

' ï1 . F RE sID ING OFF ICER : (S D ATOR SAWC KAS ) t

14::::2. senator Knuppel. k

3. s EN ATOR Kxupp sL: ry!4

* Well, I jus t want to reassure Senator Moore that I to M 'ô5. him welre going to do something about it and we' re go ing to

6. do some thing th at's fa ir and right. This isnît the last day

7. of the Session.

8 . PRF.S IDI NG OFF ICE R: ( S ENATOR S AVICKAS)

9. You may continue, Senator Moore. He 's done. Oh, the question

lû. is shall Amendment No. 10 to House Bill 2569 be adopted. Th ose

ll. in favor will v oG A ye . Th ose opposed vote Nay. The voting

12. is open. Have al1 vo G d who wi G ? H ave aH vo G d who wish ?

l3. Take the record. On that question the Ay œ are 31 ...the Ayes

14. are 27, the Nays are 3l# none Vo G ng P m sent. Amendment No. 10

l5. to House Bill 25 h av ing failed to receive a majority vo G is

16. declared los t. Any further amendments ?

l7. S ECRETARY: 9

18. Amendment No. 11 offered by Sen ator W alsh . Amend Amendment

19 No. 3 on p age 2 5 , line 19 , by cleleting 19 7 6 and i nse rti ng in lieu

2o. th er eof number 1977 and so for th.

21. P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

22. Senator Walsh.

23. S ENATOR WALS H:

24 M r. President and members of the Sena G . This amendment

c oncerns i M elf wi th the m anne r in kh ich the:se taxes are to25.

26 be dis tributed. The bill in its present form provides that' taxes be distributed on the basis as to downst ate on 197727

.

llections, ané in Cook County on28 personal p m perW tax co' 29. the basis of 1976 collections. Certainly if we could, we

should base these dis tributions on 1978 collections because30.

al tha t will be the informa tion most accurate. Since that's

not now available: this amendment would provide that distributions32. 1be made on the ba sis of 1977 collections as to d ownsta te and >aa

. . )

34. Cook County f or the Pisca l Year ending 1980 and thereafter j)

35. on the ba sis of 1978 collections. This is just pur e equity and f?

150 t'

j

1. I would hope you would a11 support th % amendment.

2. PRESIDING OFFICER : (S ENATOR SAVICKAS)

3. G ere fur ther discussion? Senator Carroll.

4. S EN ATOR CAR ROLL:

5. Thank you, Mr. Presi œ nt, Ladies and Ge ntlemen of the Senate.

6. I rise in opposition to G is amendment. don't kno w why Senator

7. Walsh is so intent on hurting the schoo 1 districts and 1 œ H

8. gove rnmen G of his area, but thatïs his decis ion so to make .

As he wqell kn ows , h o/ever, th at it's no t as simple as he states

l0. the case. The problem in Cook County is on the co llections in

1l. tha t it takes the State 's Attorney s cme eighteen to twenty-four

12. months to file suit on those who, in f K 't, do no t pay at the

13 time they are b illed and are contesting the tax as assessed

14 by G e assossor. There's no meth od of contes G ng beyond awaiting

15 Mw suit. The law suit ta kes eighteen to t#enty-four months

16 for our State's Atto rney in Cook County to file and, i n fact,

the only good data thàt we ha ve th at is a c onp lete ye'ar in

lg khich the v % t majority of whatever is qoing to be collectedis collected, is 176 which is then fully wrapped up by the

end of '78 or e r ly '79 beyond the stragglier amounts of money

21 and that's the only da ta th at you can really use is what you

2: rea 11 y ex pect to be collected using the la teness of the State's

aa Attorney ahd proceeding in getting the collections of those wh o

24 don't p ay at the time they are billed. So the harm th at he

is causing is based upon knowi ng that takes th at long to25.

find ou t kh atyin fact, would have been, a year 's tax. And26.

the only recent data, the most recent c omplete type da ta for27.

Cook is and fo'r d ovnsta G28.

PRESIDING OFF ICER: (S EN ATOR SAVICKM )29.

Is G ere further discussion? Senator Mc Mi1l an.30.

SENATOR.n'MCMILLAN:3l.

M r. President and lembers of the Sena te. I wouldx..w ould32.

merely add th at it is possible to get the bes t possible dàta33.

15l

1. to use in order to pr oeide for the...the various fractions

2. involved in a1l oc ating the funds. As 'a downstater , I w ould

3. have to admit tha t my gr aeest concern is tha t f ifty-two

4. pe cent goes to Cook County and then forty-eight percent

5. downsta te. But I think people sh ould be m ade cle arl'y'faware

6. of the fact that once the fifty-two percent goes to Cook

7 County, G e subu & an par t...of...of Cook County also gets

a a little uhamo action d one on them and Ehe only way, I

: thi rik we can qu it f igh ting among our se lves in d if f erent

yc par % of the Sta G is get as close as we can c ame to the

actua l dollars œ n ected the last t ime the tax was collectedll.

and that provided for in S enator W: M hIs anendment.l2.

PRESIDING QFFIC ER : (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator m o ads.14.

SENATOR RHOADS:

Yeah, well in response to Senator Carroll, I'm gettingl6.

just a little bit tired of peop le ta ïking about non-p aymentl7.

in Cook County when p art of the re al pr oblem is, that thel8.

assessor's off ice carries on the book's cor poration whichl9.

have gone œ t of exis tence three and four ye = s ago. Itls20.

the most terr ib 1' e rec ord keeping s ystem of any county assessor 's2l.

office in the State and that's ano ther reason tha t they're22.

having problems.23.

PRESIDING X F ICER : (S ENATOR SAVICKM )24.

Skrlator Ne tsch .

SEG TOR NETSCH :26.

I think th at one other factor, Mr. President, that might27.

be added to wh at Senator Car m 11 said, ia a factor G at I28.

think Senatœ Walih is fully a ware of and th at the cost29.

and IOSS technique by which a good dea l of that non-co H ected30.

Corpora te Personnel 'Pr pperty Tax has , in fact, been c ollected

but in the f œ m of re al es tate taxes shifted to a number of o % ers.32.

No effobrt h as been made to m ake the rep lacement base include tha t

l52

t. amount, whidh under some e guments well could, with respect

2. to cook county. And I think given that, i t makes no sense at

3. al1 to use th e later year which would really compound th at

4. er ror even more.

5. PRESIDINS OFF ICER: (S ENATOR SAV ICKAS)

6. Sena Y r B ruce.

7. SENATOR BRUCE:

8. Thank you, Mr. President. If I were a...a f rightful

:. downsta % r, I might...might t ake a real close look at this

1c. one. But I think that this bi 11 ought to do equity between

ll. al1 parts of our Sta G . A nd frankly, I.. .1 don't underst and

12 Qh y someone from Cook Coun W would wank to do this . The

13 opinion c ane out in March of O 79, just when collectionswere sta A inq. The '78 taxing ye r on which Senator Wa lsh

wishes to go % now being collectable this year. And even

16 by 1980 or 1981 we're not even- .go ing to have a good l ook

17 1 at Qha t... G xes were to have been collected in 1978 The. :

net effect of G % amendment is to reduce the pr.o m rtion ofl8.

the pot that Cook C ounty w ould sh are with downsta te Illino O .l9.

And 1...1 jus t don't quite comprehend why a 1978 tax year20.aids anyone. We went to '76 for Cook County because th at2l.

is a solid year for them. They are still collecting ab out22.

12.9 million dollars a year based on 1976 taxing year and we23.

uent to a year for downsta O because we collect taxes24.

and our collection rate is higher. We collect about

ninety-four percent right off the bat and we g o after G e26.

rest of i t later on and finally get up to about ninety-

eig ht percent. But this year...I...I anticipate and the re28. .

has been in fact th ousands and ih ousands more pro tests filed29.

after the March 1979...0 pinion and that is the taxing ye =30.

that you're Vfecting, '78 taxes collected in '79 . It just31.

seems to me that when you base it on th is year, you ar e32.

denying œok Gounty a significant sou rce of revenue from Yhe33.

15 3

replacement fund.

2. PRESIDING OFFI CE R: (SEN ATOR S AVICKAS)

3. Is there further discussion? If no t, Se nator Walsh may

4. close the deb aG .

5. SENAT QR WALS H:

6. M r. Presi œ nt and membe rs of the Senate. Senator B ruce r

7 V I m e ...your s Gtemen ts were- -were just plain in Kcura teg as e the effect of % is amendment. It does not in anyw ay

V fect the fifty-two , forty-eight pe rcent alloca tD n between9.

Cook Coun W and downsta te. It would only V fect the mannerl0.

in Qhich the tax once raised, i s distributed within th osell.

t,o areas. And the point of this anendment O that wel2.

should alloca G or distribute the tax money on the b asis of13.

the 1978 c ollections, but since they are not now av ailable,14.

it would N ovide that in F isc al Ye = D 80 and thereafter,l5.

after Fis 0 1 Year D 80 it be dis e ibuted on the basis of16.

1978. Now in response to Sena tor Carroll's db servation, letl7.

me say G at there are m any personal N operty tax cases forl8.

1976 and propably earlier ye r s which are still pending andl9.

may no t be settled until next ye = or the year th ereH ter.20.

S o, as a pn ctio l matter, the dis % O utions which will be

made under this bill r e tentative, but they will be increased

as co H ections are made in futu re ye r s.23.

24.

2b.

26.

27.

28. End of Reel 44

29.

30.

32.

33.

l54

Reel /5

The point should be on the basis of 1978 rather than any other

2. year and I would urge your support.

). P RESIDIN G OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

4. The question is, shall Amendment No. 11 be adopted. Those in

5. favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is

6. open. Have all voted who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Take the

7 record. On that question the Ayes are 25. The Nays are 32. None

a Voting Present. Amendment No. 11 having failed to receive a majorityis declared lost. Any further amendments?9

.

SECRETARY:l0.

Amendment No. offered by Senator Bruce, LRB No. 28.


Senator Bruce.l3.

SENATOR BRUCE:l4.

Here it is. Thank you, Mr. President and members of thel5.

senate. I'm sorry. I apologize. T thought we had one morel6.

amendment before this one. Well, Senator McMillan and I sort ofl7.

have an agreement that we would allow all the amendments to bel8.

drawn and I would bring on the technical amendment last so that itl9.

would not affect any amendment. With leave of the Body, I'd like

to withdraw my amendment and hold it until last so that it doesn't

mess up anyone else's amendment in the event mine...were to be

adopted.23.


Any further amendments?2b.

SECRETARY:26.

Amendment No. 12 offered by Senator Nimrod.27.


Senator Nimrod.29.

SENATOR NTMROD:30.


Senate and Senator Bruce. What this amendment does is, in fact,32. .

addresses itself to the problems which were stated by Senator Bruce33.

1. on...on the amendments to Senator McMillan. What this amendment

does, in fact, is allow a three percent for the first year and

). then drop it to two and a quarter. The results of this would be

4. to satisfy the objections which were made to the other one and I

5 think it's a very sensible approach and.- in light of the objections,6 this should be an acceptable amendment.


Is there further discussion? Senator Bruce.8.

SENATOR BRUCE:9.

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate and I apolo-l0.

gize. Once again in talking about the Real Estate Taxpayer and Ill.

guess everyone thinks that somehow these taxes are not related, butl2.

1eE me just tell you why they are. Every dime of Personal Propertyl3.

Tax, whether paid by corporations of individuals is raised and spentl4.

locally. Every dime of Real Estate Taxes raised locally is spent15.

locally and so when you do not raise enough money in the Corporatel6. '

Replacement Fund, you are putting the burden on the Real Estate Tax-1.7 .

payer to operate local government. That is their source of revenuel8.

other than some of the Gas Tax and one twelfth of the Income Tax,l9.

but the major portion of their budgeks. are Real Estate Tax oriented.20.

Now, this bill, folks, take a look at it. This ought to be the Real

Estate Taxpayers tax hike. Now, this bill says something that's very

interesting. The first year out youdre going to raise five hundred

and thirty-three million dollars. The second year out youlre going24.

to raise five hundred and twenty-two million dollars. The third year25.

out youdre going to raise five hundred and and seventeen million dol-26.

lars. Now that does...and this...old Bruce is giving you the best27.

shot at it. That's a ten percent growth in Corporate Income Tax. Ten28.

percent and an eight percent invested capital for utility companies.29.

gave you the best figures I could and they go down. Now, 1et me30.

tell you who runs local government and who pays for the cost. The3l.

Real Estate Taxpayer is going to take it every year under this amend-32.

ment as prices go up, as costs go up, the amount of money wedre33.

156

shipping back to them is going down and folks, the only place you're

2. going to get it is hitting the poor o1d real estate guy sitting

). there with a house to pay the increased costs of this amendment.

4. This one is going to run your Real Estate Taxes right out of the

5 roof and I oppose it.


7 Further discussion? Senator Mchlillan.

SENATOR MCMILLAN:8.

I would merely say that the five htmdred thirty-three, five hun-9.

dred seventeen, five hundred twelve million dollars that Senator10.

Bruce talked about are a1l more money than is necessary to replacel1.

the Corporate Personal Property Tax. think that particular partl2.

is important.13.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Nimrod may closel5. .

the debate.l6.

SENATOR NIMROD:l7.

Well, Mr. President; it seems to me that the arguments thatl8.

were given against the first proposal seem to be satisfied here.

Now, I hear that Senator Bruce is saying that the windfall that the

local governments get, he's objecting to that windfall only being a

temporary one. Well, I think what he has done in this case is

admitted that, in fact, the local governments are going to get some23.

extra money which we certainly discussed in the beginning, but it24.

does then equalize'it after the first or second year. brings25.

down to a sensible figure. The other advantage in this proposal is26.

this...is that after the first year you will know whether or not27.

three percent was too much or too little to be the replacement and28.

you will know whether two and a quarter is or is not and we can always29.

come back and adjust that within this Legislature in the future year30.

without ever hurting anyone. I think this is a proper approach. It

n-'tisfies a1l the objections and it does, in fact, guarantee that we32.

are concerned about the business climate and does say that we will33.

157

have to tax our businesses at two and a quarter percent kf. in fact,

2. thatls enough money. I would urge your favorable roll call.


4. The question is, shall Amendment No. 12 be adopked. Those in

favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote No. The voting is

6 open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take the

7 record. On that question the Ayes are 26. The Nays are 31. None

Voting Present. Amendment No. 12 having failed to receive a majority8.

is declared lost. Any further amendments?9.

SECRETARY:l0.

Amendment No. 13 offered by Senator Bruce. It's No. 28 LRB.


Senator Bruce.l3.

SENATOR BRUCE:11.

This is LRB No. 28. I have given a copy of this Eo Senatorl5.

McMillan. think he may have circulated it under...other members.16.

It makes several technical and corrective changes and then does makel7.some substantive chanqes to the bill as passed out and while IIm

l8. - .

on my feet, Mr. President, several members have inquired about the

large amendment which is down at the desk. That is not an amendment.

For those of you who have not yet received an Enrolled and Engrossed2l.

copy of 2569, it is down at the desk. That is not an amendment.22.

That is...that is, in fact: a copy of the bill that we are going23.

to be discussing. eliminates some language which would have24.

prohibited estimated payment of Replacement Income Tax prior to25.

January, 1980, through an oversight. We wanted to make sure that26. '

estimated Income Tax were, fact, allowed if .the tax effective27.

date is other- .prior to January the 1st, 180. It clarifies that28.

revenues from Tnvested Capital Taxes on utilities are certified29.

quarterly and that is the way they presently file them, rather than30.

on a monthly basis. Provides that #he two year Hold Harmless Clause

begins with the first distribution of the revenuœ rather than with32.

the date of the Act and insures.. . eliminate any problem of the start-33.

158

up period when we start making distributions rather than effective

2. date of the Act and also there are language to insure that there's

no double taxation on the combination of gas and electric utilities

4. and there's also language relating to the problems under the Illinois

Flessages Act which relate to ATT Long Lines to make sure that when

6 they sell and float bonded debentures and pass them off to Illinois

Bell or another company that people in the utility companies, the

Messages Acte are not doubly taxed for that distzibution of.- really8.

foreign or bonded money to their Illinois subsidiary. I would move9. ,

the adoption of Amendment No. 13 to House Bill 2569.l0.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Bruce has moved the adoption of Amendment No. l3. Isl2.

there any discussion? Senator McMillan.13.

SENATOR MeMILLAN:l4.

I would want to add that having looked over the amendment andl5.

Senator Bruce, when you gave it to me, I did not distribute it. I16.

assumed you wqre going to distribute your own amendment, but thel7.

technical chanqes, I think, are very mueh in order and I have nol8.

objection them. think it would be in order for you to explain19.

once again the details of the substantive thing that relates to20.

problems that Illinois Bell had and indicate how many dollars we're2l.

talking about and what...whether...what net loss there will be to22.

the five hundred and thirty-three million dollars which your bill23.

would raise.24.

PRESIDENT:25.

Senator Bruce.26.

SENATOR BRUCE:27.

Thank you, Mr. President. First of all, in checking with28.

Illinois Economic Fiscal Commission last night and early this29.

morning, their returns as filed with the Illinois Commerce Commis-30.

sicn do not, in fact, compute in the amount.of transfersintra-company31.

and because of that, the way the Iliinois Economic and Fiscal32.

Commission informs us there will be no net revenue loss. It does,33.

l59

however, affect the liability of ATT Long Lines by reducing their

tax liability from something approaching thirteen million dollars

3. down to something approaching three million dollars. Their net

4. increase, as I understand itzis...their total tax liability right

5 now is forty-six million dollars. This with the net change between

6 ATT Long Lines who are not paying any, which would have gone to

thirteen million, the net wash is that they will pay forty-one

million dollars in Income Taxes rather than forty-six million dollars8.

on the Invested Capital rather, rather than forty-six million dollars9.

presently paid on Personal Property Tax, a net change of five millionl0.

dollars, but ATT Long Lines would pay three million dollars, I think,11.

that they are presently not paying.l2.

PRESIDENT:l3.

Further discussion? Senator Rhoads.l4.

SENATOR RHOADS:l5.

Senator Bruce, have lost track with al1 the changes. Nowl6.

you and I had discussed an amendment which would lift definitionsl7.

. from the Federal IRS Statutes to incorporate it. Is that now in?l8.

PRESIDENT:19.

Senator Bruce.20.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Senator Rhoadsz itls still not in. T1m going to try to persuade

you not to put that one in, buk if I candt, we will go with it some23.

time tomorrow, but I...it is just more complicated than you can24.

imagine.2b.

PRESIDENT;26.

Any further discussion? A11 right. Senator Bruce has moved the27.

adoption of Amendment No. 13 to House Bill 2569. All in favor signify28.

by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment is29.


SECRETARY :


PRESIDENT:33.

160

3rd reading. A11 right. We will move to the Order of House

Bills on 3rd reading. A number of the members have indicated

3. they have bills they wish again to recall for purposes of an

4. amendment. I am causing to have distributed if...Mr. Sergeant-at-

5 Arms, can we get one of this army of pages up here? Here comes...

here comes our army. We'l1...we'll distribute a list as we currently

7 have These are amendments which have already been filed with

the Secretary and we will attempt, I hope, to handle these with8.

some dispatch. Yes, Senator Grotberg, for what purpose do you rise?9.

SENATOR GROTBERG:l0.

Parlimentary Inquiry. Is it the intention of the Chair to...toll.

do any of the Postponed Consideration on 3rd at this time.l2.

PRESIDENT:l3.

Not at this point in recall.l4.


They won't die on the Calendar for lack of amendment...16.

PRESIDENT:

l8.SENATOR GROTBERG:

l9.Theyfll die for other reasons.

20.PRESIDENT:21

.

I would hope. A1l right. If T can have your aktention, it22.

would be helpful if the members could be in their seats and khose

not entitled to the Floor would please vacate. We will go right24.

down the list as you have had it presented to you and I would suggest25.

that if a sponsor does not wish the bill recalled, it won't be recalled.26.

On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, House Bill 445, Senator27.

Maragos. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, House Bill 513,28.

Senator Wooten. Senator Wooten seeks...on the Order of House Bills29.

3rd reading, bottom of page 4, is House Bill 513. Senator Wooten30.

seeks leave of the Body to return 5l3 to the Order of 2nd reading3l.

for purposes of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted.32.

On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 513.33.

1.

No# Sir.

16l

SECRETARY:

2. Amendment No. 2 offered by Senator DeAngelis.

PRESIDENT:

4. A11 right. Senator DeAngelis, letls try to get a little order

so you can present this. Will Ehe members please be in their seats

6 and those not entitled to khe Floor please vacate and would- .could

7 ask the pages to light someplace? Senator DeAngelis.

SENATOR DEANGELTS:8.

Thank you, President, memberpersons of khe Senate. In9.

the State of Illinois currently, under the current formula there are10.

about seventeen school districts which are not getting their fullll.

entitlements. Senate Bill 513 not only is going to raise the State12.

guarantee level, but is also over a three year period, going tol3.

guarantee full access to those areas which are not at the accessl4.

rate. I think it would be only decent and fair that in doing thatl5.

we at least bring those seventeen school districts to full entitlement.l6.

urge passage of Amendment No. 2.

PRESIDENT:l8.

Senator DeAngelis has moved the adoption of Amendment No.

to House Bill 513. Is there any discussion? Senator Berman.20.

SENATOR BERMAN:2l.

Thank you, President. Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.22.

rise in opposition to this amendment. As you may recall, had23.

an amendment to take care of one school district in particular and24.

about thirty-five others..vin an effort to try to move the R hool25.

M d D rmula along before July 1. I have withdrawn that amendment.26.

This is an amendment that takes care of seventeen school districts27.

and I'm sure that there isnlt...that every-..l am sure that every28.

member on this Floor could prepare an amendrent that would take care29.

of one, two, twenty or fifty or a thousand school districts thaE have30.

particular problems. 5l3 was worked out in the House. It is not3l.

perfect as is no piece of legislation that we passz but I think it's32.

a reasonable compromise. think it should remain as is and I urge33. .

l62

the members who want to move along towards a quick and fair approach

2. to School Aid Formula to oppose this amendment.

3. PRESIDENT:

4. Further discussion? Senator Wooten.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

6 Thank you, Mr. President. 1, too, oppose this amendment for the

7 very reasons articulated by senator Berman. too, have a school...

a couple of school districts I would like to get some kind of special

treatment for because they just keep going down every formula change9.

we make. Out of the one thousand and thirteen districts in the State,l0.

this would apply only to seventeen. I think we should resist thisll.

amendment and move on to the passage of the bill.l2.

PRESIDENT:l3.

Is there any further discussion? Senator DeAngelis may closel4.

the debate.l5.

SENATOR DEANGELIS:l6.

Thank you, Mr. President. I 4on't think it's a question ofwhether welre doing a special favor or iE's only seventeen school

l8.districts. Justice is justice. If welre going to raise the Statel9

.

guarantee level, wedre going to allow full access, let's at least

be decent enough to bring those schools Ehat are entitled it to2l.

the full funding. I urge passage of this amendment.22.

PRESIDENT:23.

A11 right. Senator DeAngelis has moved the adoption of24.

Ahendment No. 2 to House Bill 513. Any further discussion? If not,25.

all in favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. In the opinion of26.

the Chair the Noes have The amendment fails. Roll call has been27.

requested. Senator DeAngelis has moved the adoption of Amendment No.28. .

2. Those in favor of the amendment will vote Aye. Those opposed will29.

vote Nay. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have al130.

voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 27.3l.

The Nays are 28. None Voting Present. The amendment fails. Yes,32. .

Senator DeAngelis.33.

l63

SENATOR DEANGELIS:

2.

) PRESIDENT:

4 senator Denngelis.- will the members please be in their seats.

5 Senator DeAngelis has requested a verification of the negative votes.

6 Secretary will read the negative votes. Will the members please

respond.7.

SECRETARY:8.

The following voted in the negative: Berman, Bruce, Buzbee,9.

Carroll: Chew, Collins, D'Arco, Daley, Demuzio Donnewald, Egan,l0. '

Gikz, Hall, Johns, Jerome Joyce, Lemke, Maragos, McLendon, Merlo,

Nedza, Nega, Newhouse, Sangmeister, Savickas, Vadalabene, Washington,l2.

Wooten, Mr. President.l3.

PRESIDENT:l4.

Here. Senator DeAngelis, do you...l5.

SENATOR DEANGELIS:16.

Senator Chew.l7.

PRESIDENT:l8.

Senator Chew is in the phone department.l9.

SENATOR DEANGELIS:20.

Senator Daley.

PRESIDENT:22.

. ..senator Daley on the Floor? Senator Daley on the Floor?23.

Senator Daley is on the Floor. Senator DeAngelis, anything further?24.

The roll has been verified. On that question the Ayes are 27. The2b.

Nays are 28. None Voting Present. The amendment fails. Further26.

amendments?27.

SE/RETARY:28.

Amendment No. 3 offered by Senator Berning.29.

PRESIDENT:30.

Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:32.

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. Amendment33.

Could I have a verificatkon of the negative roll call?

l 6 4 ,

No. 3 to House Bill is a very timely and simple amendment. Allows

parents ko have the right of choice for their students. It's commonly

3. known as the Voucher System and Mr. President and members of the

4. Senate, respectfully suggest that the time has arrived when we

5. ought to be allowing khe parents to make some determinations for

6 themselves as to where their students, their children are to be

educated. I would respectfully suggest that this amendment be adopted

so as to provide that option.8.

PRESIDENT:9.

There any...senator Berning has movv the adoption of Amendment No.l0.

to House Bill Is there any discussion? Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:12.

Thank you, Mr. President. I rise in opposition to this13.

amendment. First of all, I don't think it's constitutional, but onl4.

the merits, think it throws out the entire concept that we havel5.

been working under and that the schools are used to# that thel6.

Legislature is...understands and it would be the demise of thel7.

public school system if this amendment was adopted. I urge a Nol8.

vote.19.

PRESIDENT:20.

Further discussion? Senator Wooten.2l.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

Thank you, Mr. President. Senator Berman has already alluded

to the constitutional questions. Two U. Supreme Court decisions24.

have already gone againsk this concept. By the way, 1 don't think...25.

this is not a subject that we should not look at sometime the26.

future, but for the time being, if we were to put on this bill,27.

would immediately bankrupt every district in the State, cost28.

Chicago School District twenty million dollars right out of the gate.29.

just don't think it is a good thing to try to tack this very30.

controversial topic onto what is going to be some badly needed

changes in the school aid formula. I ask everyone on b0th sides of

the aisle to resist this amendment.33.

l65

PRESIDENT:

2. Further discussion? Senator Davidson.

3. SENATOR DAVIDSON:

4. Normally I don't like to get up and oppose someone from my5. side of the aisle. This is an amendment which he brought to me

saying this is an idea I'd like to bounce off. Ttfs a great idea

7. depending on what perspective you're coming from . Put it in a

8. separate bill and let's debate it on that merit. Let's not try ko

9. hang it onto the school formula which xe hope to get out of here, get

l0. a decision so the school districts will know what theylre doing for

1l. funds when the school year starts. I urge my side to either vote

l2. No Present or don't vote.7* #

k3. PRESIDENT:

l4. Any further discussion? Senator Berning may close.

l5. SENATOR BERNING:

16. Thank you, Mr. President. There isn't a more likely vehicle

17. than the Srhool Aid Formula to put this kind of an amendment on

18. and I submit to you that if our school system, as we know it, is

so tenuous that it would face demise as stated by one of the speakers,

20 because of this amendment then perhaps it's time that the thing do

die. The simple fact of the matter is that we have school systems or

schools within the school system which are not meeting the need of our

23 students and many and many and many of the parents are dissatisfied

24 with *he results that they see with their students. There isn't

2: anything wrong under our competitive free enterprise system with

26 allowing people to make a choice for themselves. School District A

27 may be doing a better job than School District B and if I want to

send my child to B instead of A that's my own private busing operation28.

2: it appears to me. I submit this is a defensible approach and to have

to say now or admit now that weld have to wait for a separate bill30.

al is saying it will be two years before we can consider this again.

would like to see a favorable roll call on this so that we can say to32. .

the parents of our students throughout the State of Illinois you have33.

166

1. the right to make the choice. Your sEudents will be educated how

2. and where you want them to be. submit that this would put the

school districts and those who are involved with them on their toes

4. and perhaps we'd get better results. Thank you, Mr. President.

5 PRESIDENT:

6 A11 right. Senator Berning has moved the adoption of Amendment

No. 3 to House Bill 513. Those in favor of the amendment will7.

vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have8.

a1l voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record. On9.

that question the Ayes are 13. The Nays are 34. 2 Voting Present.10.

The amendment fails. Further amendments?1l.

SECRETARY:l2.


PRESIDENT:14.

3rd reading. Is Senator Bruce on the Floor? Senatox Martinl5. .

on 834. Oh, there you are. Yes, pardon me, Senator Martin.l6.

We'l1 get right back to you. On the Order of House Bills 3rdl7.

readinc, House Bill 716. Senator Bruce seeks leave of the Body tol8. - .

return 7l6 back to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of anl9.

amendment. Is leave granted? On the Order of House Bills 2nd20.

reading, House Bill 716. Mr. Secretary.2l.

SECRETARY:22.

Amendment No. 2 offered by Senator Wooten.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Wooten.25.

SENATOR WOOTEN:26.

Thank you, Mr. President. Earlier this year we passed out of27.

here Senate Bill 630 which provided that an educator legislator could28.

be. given a..-clarifying that he could be given a leave of absence.29. .

We have a letter from the State Board of Education, their legal office,3û.

saying that.the language in that bill which went through b0th Houses3l.

simply does not meet the question. It should be leaves of absence32.

during that portion 6f the school year when the General Legislature

167

1. is in Session so as Senator Bruce has very kindly allowed us to

2. get this correct language onto this bill sc I'd move the adoption

). of Amendment No...whatever it is.

4. PRESIDENT:

Senator Wooten has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 2 to

6. House Bill 716. Is there any discussion? Senator Maitland.

7 SENATOR MAITLAND:

g Yes, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen the Senate.

A question of Ehe sponsor, please.9.

PRESIDENT:l0.

Indicates helll yield. Senator Maitland.1l.

SENATOR MAITLAND:l2.

Senator Wooten, this issue has been debated on a number ofl3.

occasions and generally I agreed with it, but we did insert intol4.

one of those other bills a proviso that indicated that at least onel5.

time within a given school year the teacher had to be in the class-l6.

room. Isn't that correct?

PRESIDENT:l8.

Senator Wooten.19.

SENATOR WOOTEN :

At this point, Senator, don't remember. I donbt...no.

looking at 630 and thatfs not in there.22.PRESIDENT:

23.Well, I1m sorryg but we put that...that was Senator Bruce's bill

24. .and we- .we had that put in there. Now, I don't know what happened

25.to it, but that was the agreement that we had.

26. ' .PRESIDENT:

27.Senator Wooten.

28.SENATOR WOOTEN;

29.Maybe youdre referring to language that talked about part of

30.the school year which turned out to be the legal problem. What we

31.have done is change it for thcse parts of the school year when the

32.General Assembly or its committee s are convened to tie it down just

33.

l68

j

i)

to those times and no other. j

'

.

t. PRESIDENT:

2. senator Maitland.

3. SENATOR MAITLAND: .

4. One further question, Senator. Do we have the assurance that

5. the teacher will, in fact, be in school on a part of the school year?

6. FRESIDENT:

7. Senator Wooten.

8. SENATOR WOOTEN:

9 That's why we used this language.

lc PRESIDENT:

Senator Maitland.ll.

SENATOR IG ITLAND:l2.

Thank you.l3.

PRESIDENT:l4.

Any further discussion? If not, Senator Wooten has moved thel5.

adoption of Amendment No. 2. Senator Mitchler.l6.

SENATOR MITCHLER: .l7.

Mr. President and members of the Senate, listening to the debatel8.

between- .and the inquiries between Senator Maitland and Senator Wootenl9.

you say during the period that the General Assembly is in Session or20.

their committees. Now, the committees and commissions, they meet out-2l.

side of the Hanuary till June period. Are you specifying January till22.

June or what about...you know, in the Fall of the year?23.

PRESIDENT:24.

Senator Wooten.2b.

SENATOR WOOTEN:26.

The language is quite specific, Senator. Those parts of the27.

school year when the General Assembly or its committees are convened.28.

No words about commissions or anything else.29.

' FRESIDENT:30.

Further discussion? Senator Davidson.3l. .SENATOR DAVIDSON: > '

32.Mr. President and members of the Senate, I rise in support of l

33. 1this amendment. We did send out a bill here. Ik was agreed in h

'' ..

'

Ij7'-

'

which Senator Maitland spoke to. It went to the Governor's desk. th

169 '1

It was totally inoperable according to the legal opinion from IOE

and...oh, whoever else they get their legal opinions on the way it

). was worded. The amendmenk presented by Senator Wooten is to do

4. two things. One is give those people who are school teachers and

5 members of the Legislature an opportunity to be a Legislator and

6 not be punished by the local school board. The other part of the

7 amendment was to do what Senator Maitland asked is so that the

person didn't get a free ride for the whole year of building up time.8.

Now, I..vthatls the way the amendment's been explained to me and9.

that's what it's supposed to do so I suggest let's put the amendmentl0.

on, then let's double check it on the legality that it does thosell.

two things. If doesndt, we can certainly bring it back andl2.

correct it yet today or tomorrow.l3.

PRESIDENT:l4.

Further discussion? Senator Maitland.l5.


Thank you, Mr. President. Senator Wooten, just along withl7.

Senatpr...what Senator Davidson says, just so that we have anl8.

understanding that this is a legal opinion from IOE and we'd like

to see this to make sure that it's doing exactly what we had20. .

intended in the beginninq. I would appreciate that.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

Sure, yeah, and thereds...if there's any question, of course,23.

wedll go back and straighten it out because what wefre trying to24.

' do to get this question nailed down once and for all. Make25.

exact. I move the adoption of the amendment.26.

PRESIDENT ;27.

Senator Wooten has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 2 to28.

House Bill 716. Any further discussion? If not, al1 in favor signify29.

by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment is3û.

adopted. Further amendments?

SECRETARY :32.


17O

N'(j'lp.x ' !k.

N 1 v y3 s -.z z'''.k

*

k

*

j,.,,

'

';

'

;:'h ?, .al/ F'' a z , 6 -+... ty'Y

PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. Middle of page 7, on House Bills 3rd reading is

House Bill 834. Senator Martin seeks leave of the Body to bring

4. House Bill 834 back to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an

amendment. Is leave granted. Leave is granted. On the Order of

6. House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 834. kr. Secretary.

7 SECRETARY:

g Amendment No. 5 offered by Senator Shapiro.

PRESIDENT:9.

Senator Shapiro.l0.

SENATOR SHAPIRO :

Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate, Amendmentl2.

No. 5 would allow political committees that are registered pursuanEl3.

to the Campaign Finance Act ko purchase copies of computer tapes,l4.

discs or other electronic data processing information from county15.

clerks which contain only voter registration information. The16.

reasonable cost, as specified by the bill would be cost of duplication17.

plus fifteen percent for administration. The individual representingl8. .

such political committee shall sign a sworn affidavit that thel9.

information shall be used only for the bonafide political purposes20. .including by or for candidates for office or incumhent officeholders

and shall not be used under any circumstances by anyone on the com-

mittee or anyone else for commercial solicitation or other business

purposes. It also carries a penalty for violation of this law and24.

that penalty is a Class IV Felony. I would urge adoption of the2b.

amendment.26.

FRESIDENT:27.

Senator Shapiro has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 5 to28.

House Bill 834. Is there any discussion? If not, a1l in favor29.

signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it. The30.

amendment is adopted. Further amendments?3l.

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 6 offered by Senator Rhoads.33.

2.

l7l

I PRESIDENT:

2 Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

4 Thank you, Mr. President, members of the Senate. Amendment

5 No. 6 is the same as an amendment that Representative Collins put

on in the House on this same bill, House Bill 834. It was deleted6.

by the Senate Elections Committee totally in error. We thought7.

we were adopting a technical zmendment in committee. In fact,8.

it was a substantive change. This amendment puts back the substan-9.

tive change which affects the signature requirements for independentl0.

candidates for office. The...for the General Assembly. The mainl1.

bill affects the signature requirements for partisan nominees. Thisl2.

will affect the signature requirements for independent candidates.

I've spoken with Senator Lemke. He's in agreement with putting thisl4.

language back in pursuant to the intent of the House sponsor. What-

ever the merits of it might be# we can discuss that on 3rd reading.16.

PRESIDENT:17.

Further discussion? Senator Wooten.l8.

SENATOR WOOTEN:l9.

Senator Rhoads, it's nice to have you on b0th sides of an20.

issue the course of one Session of the General Assembly. You2l.

are purporting now to put in a provision against which we were22.

yoked arms to oppose, is that correct, Senator?23.

PRESIDENT:24.

Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:26.

Senator Woôten, this wouldnït be the first time I've been both...27.

on both sides of an elections issue, but 1...1 am offering this28.

amendment because it is consiskenk with the House sponsor's desire29.

and because ik was deleted by accident in...in the Senate committee30.

and I think we ought to have the bill in the proper shape. Whatever3l.

the merits of it Kight be, we can discuss that on 3rd reading.32.

PRESIDENT:

l72

Senator Wooten.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

). Well, I don't know...improper shape might be the correct term .

4. Im..what exactly are the provisions of this amendmenk and how does

5 articulate with the signature requiremene for. . .let's say regular

6 candidates?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Rhoads.8.

SENATOR RHOADS:9.

The main bill doubles the signature requirement for partisanl0.

nominee candidates for members of the General Assembly. This

amendment doubles khe signature requirement for independent candidatesl2.

for General- .members of the General Assembly from a minimum of13.

five percent of the total vote up to minimum of ten percent of thel4.

total vote.l5.

PRESIDENT:l6.

Any further discussion? If not, Senator Rhoads has moved thel7. l

adoption of Amendment No. 6 to House Bill 834. A1l in favor signifyl8.

by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment isl9.

adopted. Further amendments?20.

SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. Middle of page On the Order of House Bills 3rd24.

reading is House Bill 859. Senator Geo-Karisy do you wish this returned?25. '

Senator Geo-Karis seeks leave of the Body to return House Bill 85926.

to the Order of 2nd reading for purpose of an amendment. Is leave27.

granted? On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 859.28.

Mr. Secretary.29.

SECRETARY:30.

Amendment No. offered by Senator Berning.

PRESIDENT:32.

Senator Berning.33.

173

SENATOR BERNING:

2. Mr. President, we will have to ask leave of the Body to

). reconsider the vote by which the second amendment was adopted so

4 that that can be Tabled.

5 PRESIDENT:

6 Senator Geo-Karis.

7 SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

T'd like to ask...we've had a technical mistake the Amendment8.

2 and I'd like...having moved .- the prevailing side, move to recon-9.

sider the vote which Amendment 2 was adopted by this Body.l0.

PRESIDENT:ll.

All right. Senator Geo-Karis has moved to reconsider the votel2.

by which Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 859 was adopted. Al1 in13.

favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. Thel4. .

vote is reconsidered. Senator Geo-Karis now moves to Table Amendmentl5.

No. 2 to House Bill 859. A11 those in favor signify by sayingl6.

Aye. Al1 opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment is Tabled.l7.

Further amendments?l8.

SECRETARY:19.

Amendment No. 3 offered by Senator Berning.20.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berning.

SENATOR BEWIING:23.

defer to Senator...24.

PRESIDENT:25.

Senator Geo-Karis.26.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:27.

Amendment No. exactly like Amendment No. 2 except itls28.

technically correct because it refers to the right section. I29.

would like to move its adoption at this time.30.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Geo-Karis has moved the adoption of Amendment No.32.

to House Bill 859. Is there any discussion? If not: all in favor33.

l74

signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it. The

2. amendment is adopted. Further amendments?

SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:

6 3rd reading. Bottom of page senator Netsch on...on House

Bills 3rd reading is House Bill 921. Senator Netsch seeks leave of

the Body to return 921 to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of8.

an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order9.

of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 921. Mr. Secretary.l0.SECRETARY:1l

.

Amendment No. offered by Senator Netsch.12.

PRESIDENT:l3.

Senator Netsch.l4.

SENATOR NETSCH:l5.

I...if I'm not mistaken, Mr. Secretary, the only one that wasl6.

adopted was Amendment No. The first one had been Tabled.l7.

SECRETARY:l8.

You're right, but this is...l9.

SENATOR NETSCH:20.

A1l right. I would first...having prevailed...having voted on21.

the prevailing side I would move to reconsider the vote by which

Amendment No. 2 was adopted for purposes of Tabling The new23.

amendment incorporates everything.24.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Netsch has moved to reconsider the vote by which26.

Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 921 was adopted. A11 in favor signify27.

by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. The vote is re-28.

considered. Senator Netsch now moves to Table Amendment No. to29.

House Bill 921. Al1 in favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed.30.

The Ayes have it. The amendment is Tabled. Further amendments?31.

SECRETARY:32.

Amendmenk No. offered by Senator Netsch.33. .

PRESIDENT:

2. Senator Netsch.

). SENATOR NETSCH:

4. Thank you, Mr. President. Amendment No. incorporates a1l

5. that was in the prior amendment, but includes a corrected provision

6. dealing with the question of what constitutes delivery of an

7 Executive Order to the General Assembly and the method by which

8 the sixty day period is to be counted. is much clearer than the

prior provision and I would now move the adoption of Amendment No.9.

3 to House Bill 921.l0.

PRESIDENT:ll.

Senator Netsch has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 3 to12.

House Bill 921. Is there any discussion? If not, a1l in favorl3.

signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. Thel4.

amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?l5.

SECRETARY:16.

No furtherj amendments.l7.

PRESIDENT:l8.

3rd reading. 1372, Senator Bruce, Itls a new entry on the list.

1372 was not on your list. It was filed after we announced weld

go to this Order. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, bottom

of page 9 is Senate...House Bill 1372. Senator Bruce seeks leave of22.

the Body to return it to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an23.

amendment. Is leave granted? On the Order of House Bills 2nd24.

reading, House Bill 1372. Mr. Secretary.2b.

SECRETARY :26.


PRESIDENT:28.

Senator Bruce.29.

SENATOR BRUCE:30.

Thank you, Mr. President...Thank you, Mr. President and members

of the Senate. This amendment clarifies in the Examination Bill32.

that is before this Body, #he issuance of a temporary license to33. '

176

1. insurance salesmen and not brokers and makes sure that the

2. temporary license shall expire on the ninety-first day following

3. the date which you file an application or the thirty-first day

4 after the date the application is scheduled to appear for an

5 examination and I think it clarifies some questions. It was

6 just handed to me and it's language out of the Insurance Act,Section 1063.43-1. I would move its adoption.

PRESIDENT:8.

Senator Bruce has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 4 to9.

House Bill 1372. Is there any discussion? If not, al1 in favorl0.

signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it. Thell.

amendment is adopted. Further amendments?l2.

SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:l5.

3rd reading. 1408, Senator McMillan. On the Order of House

Bills 3rd reading, top of page 10 is House Bill 1408. Senatorl7.

McMillan seeks leave of the Body to return this bill to the Order1B.

of 2nd for purpose of an amendment. Is leave granted ? Leave is19.

granted. On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1408.20.

Mr. Secretary.2l.

SECRETARY :22.

Amendment No. offered by Senator McMillan.23.

PRESIDENT :24.

Senator Mchlillan.25.

SENATOR MCMILLAN :26.

After our prior discussion this afternoon and after it was27.

mentioned several times that there was need for Real Estate Tax28.

relief I have decided to go ahead and offer an amendment which does29.

provide for some relief. What, in fact, the amendment that I'm30.

offering to House Bill 1408 would do is to offer. the provisions of3l.

of the Tax Extension Limitation Package which we passed ouk of this Body32.

earlier and the Truth in Taxation Package which we offered earlier.33.

l77

This would provide for a limit on the increases that local units

of government can make in the taxes that they extend. It would

3. relate back to the last known figures for growth of income in

4 Illinois. It would provide for the exclusions that are necessary

s to cover higher limits that might have been established by referen-

6 dum. I would provide for exclusions for extensioN on bond authoriza-

tions. It provides for a provision whereby any annexation or discon-7.

nection or consolidation that might involve local units of government8.

can be dealt with. It provides for a standard levy date for al19.

units of government, the last Tuesday in December. would take10.

effect immediately and it would provide for an effective notice

before any local unit of government could raise their taxes. Thisl2.

is, as I said earlier, the substance of the two bills that we passed13.

out of here about a month ago that would provide for a meaningfull4.

limit on the growth of local units of government and a provisionl5.

whereby local taxpayers would be notified of any increase even ifl6.

it was not above that limit.l7.PRESIDENT:

l8.Senator McMillan has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 1.

Is there any discussion? Senakor Egan.2o.

SENATOR EGAN:

Yes, thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. Well,

you know we don't really have enough time in the world to conduct23.

ourselves like this. Senator, this- .this amendment contains the24.

Governor's whole tax program. It was adequately heard the Revenue25.

Committee. I thought it had a fair deliberation. thought that...26. .

thought you did very well as a matter of fact and we donft have27.

time for this. I wish we could just vote down on a voice roll call28.

and get on with29.

PRESIDENT:30.

Further discussion? Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:32. .

Question of the sponsor. 1408 appears on th e Calendar on 3rd33.

178

I reading without amendment. Is there another bill that would do

2 the same thingr namely allow the senior citizen that reaches 65

to claim his Homestead Exemption for that year? Is there another3.

bill that will do that because if you put these amendments on that4.

bkll may go down and I don't want Eo hurt the senior citizens.5.

PRESIDENT:6.

Senator McMillan.7.

SENATOR MCMILLAN:8.

The House sponsor of the bill when he talked with me about9.

picking up the indicated that.the bill was one of those shellsl0.

without a turtle in it and that he preferred that we go ahead and1l.

use for this purpose.l2.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berman.l4.

SENATOR BERMAN:

Well, I'm not sure if 1 share the feelings of the House sponsorl6.

I think the bill is a good bill as isz without amendmenks and Il7. .

. would urge a No vote on these amendments.lB.

PRESIDENT:l9.

Further discussion? Senator McMillan may close.20.

SENATOR MCMILLAN:2l.

I would merely respond that there are other vehicles around if22.

there is need to accomplish the goal that Senator Berman has sought23.

and I would also indicate that I'm really not attempting to do24.

anything other than what Senator Egan has described and that is to

offer here two bill that were heard in committee in the Senate and26.

supported, heard on the Senate Floor and voted out with a good roll27.

call. They did get tubed in the House and I'm bringing them back to28.

offer them once again and would seek a favorable roll call.29.

PRESTDENT:30.

Senator McMillan has moved the adoption of Amendment No . to3l.

House Bill 1408. Senator Egan, for what purpose do you rise? Senator32.

McMillan has closed.33.

l79

t;: e( I ,1 . q 411-;

- k> lbtt

(.(

1. SENATOR EGAN:

2. Yes, just wanted Eo remind everybody that we have a goodtax limitation bill on the Calendar. We don't need this.

4. PRESIDENT:

5. Senator McMillan has moved Ehe adoption of Amendment No.

6. to House Bill 1408. A1l in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed.

Roll call has been requested. Question is on the adoption of

g Amendment No. 1 to House Bill 1408. Those in favor will vote Aye.

Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted9. .

who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record. On thatl0.

question the Ayes are 25. The Nays ar'e 3l. None Voting Present.ll.

The amendment fails. Further amendments?l2.

SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, 1596,16.

Senator Regner. Senator.v.middle of page 10. On the Order of17.

House Bills 3rd is House Bill 1596. Senator Regner seeks leave ofl8.

the Body to return this bill to the Order of 2nd reading for thel9.

purpose of an amendment. Ts leave granted ? Leave is granked. On20. .

the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1596. Mr. Secretary.21.

SECRETARY :22J


PRESIDENT:

Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL :26.

Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.27.

When we were in committee with this bill organized labor had28.

requested a type of amendment that is acceptable to Senator Regner29.

that would provide information on these exemptions from taxation30.

on what the impact on jobs were of the purchase of this equipment,3l.

whether it was a positive or negative impact and to basically have32.

the Department then report on a regular basis on that which would

l80

be public information available and I would move adoption of

2. Amendment No. 4.

3. PRESIDENT:

4. senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No.

to House Bill 1596. Is there any discussion? If not, al1 in

6. favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it.

7. The amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?

8 SECRETARY:

* Amendment No. 5 offered by Senator Egan.

PRESIDENT;

Senator Egan.

SENATOR EGAN:l2.

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. Asl3.

youfll recall Senate Bill 922 left the Chamher with a quite sub-l4.

stantial vote, went to the House where the committee felt that thisl5.

bill would do a better job. Now, what we are doing is trying tol6.

restore some of the provisions from Senate Bill 922 into this bill.l7.

Amendment No. 2 expands the Sales Tax Exemption to include materialsl8.

and...equipment, what the manufacturer keeps for its own in-house

use. It is contained in Senate Bill 22...922 and there are some

technical changes that are necessary on it. I move its adoption.

PRESIDENT:22.

Senator Egan has moved the adoption of Amendment No. to23.

House Bill 1596. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor24.

signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it. The25.

amendment is adopted. Any further amendments.26. .

SECRETARY:27.

Amendment No. 6 offered by Senator Egan.28.

PRESIDENT:29.

Senator Egan.30.

SENATOR EGAN:

Yes, thank you, l4r. President and members of the Senate.32.

Amendment No.33.

l81

1. PRESIDENT:

6.

3. SENATOR EGAN:

4. Is that correct?

5. PRESIDENT:

6.

SENATOR EGAN:

8. I1m sorry...expands upon the definition of equipment and

9. includes tools, dies and fixtures, molds, but specifically excludes

lo. hand tools and it's consistent with Senate Bill 922. I move its

11 adoption.

12 PRESIDENT:

la Senator Egan has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 6 to House

14 Bill 1596. Is there any discussion? If not, al1 in favor signify

5 by saying Aye. Al1 opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment isl .

adopted . Any f urther amendments?l 6 .

SECRETARY :l 7 .

M endment No . 7 of f ered by Senator Egan .l 8 .

PRESIDENT :l 9 .

Senator Egan '2 0 .

SENATOR EGAN :2 l .

M endment No . Mr . President and members of the Senate , makes

additional changes to clarif y that the Certif icates of Exemption

will not have to be submitted f or each transaction . It clearly2 4 .

helps the person who has to make out the forms administratively and2 5 .

I move its adoption .2 6 .

PRESIDENT :2 7 .

Senator Egan moves the adoption of M endmenk No . to House2 8 .

Bill 1596 . Is there any discussion? If not , all in f avor signif y2 9 .

by saying Aye . All opposed . The Ayes have it . The amendment is3 0 .

adcpted . Any f urther amendments?

SECRETARY: .


182

PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, middle

of page 11 is House Bill 1635. Senator Bloom seeks leave of the Body

4. to return 1635 to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an

5. amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order of

6. House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1635. Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:

g Amendment No. 3 offered by Senator Carroll.

PRESIDENT:9.

Senator Carroll.l0.

SENATOR CARROLL:ll.

Thank youy Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

This is an add-back of 1400 to provide for the rent necessary for thel3.

Law Officers Enforcement Training Board after we have seen the leasey14. ,

etc. I would move adoption.l5.

PRESIDENT:l6.

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 3 tol7.

House Bill 1635. Is there any discussion? If not, al1 in favorl8.

'

signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Aves have it. The amendmentl9.

- .

is adopted. Any further amendments?2û.

SECRETARY:2l.


PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, House24.

Bill 1639. Senator Bloom seeks leave of the Body to return 163925.

to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment. Is leave26.

granked? Leave is qranted. On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading,27.

House Bill 1639. Mr. Secretary.28.

SECRETARY:29.


PRESIDENT:3l.

Senator Carroll.32.

SENATOR CARROLL:33.


This restores a salary of thirty-five thousand to a person who

would have otherwise gotten a dollar nine and I move adoption of

4. Amendment No. 5.

5. PRESTDENT:

6. Senator Carroll has moved the adopkion of Amendment No. 5 to

7. House Bill 1639. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor sig-

g. nify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment

9 is adopted. Any further amendments?

10. SECRETARY:


12 PRESIDENT:

ya 3rd reading. 1641, Senator Sommer. On the Order of House Bills

3rd reading is House Bill 1641. Senator Sommer seeks leave of the14.

Body to return this bill to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes ofl5.

an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order ofl6.

House Bills 2nd reading, House 1641. Secretary.l7.

SECRETARY:l8.

Okay.

PRESIDENT:

A11 right. Senator Sommer. Senator Carroll.

SENATOR CARROLL:

Thank you, Mr. President. We wish to Table Amendment No.23.

Having voted on the prevailing side, I move to reconsider the vote24.

by which Amendment No. 2 was adopted for purposes of Tabling. This25.

was an amendment that reduced the contractural account for CDB, Mr.26.

Linton's operation in Washington. Theydve established the value of27.

that office to the members on our side who had been opposed to that28.

and we now, therefore, wish to Table Amendment No.29.

PRESIDENT:

All right. Senator Carroll has moved to reconsider the vote

by which Amendment House Bill was adopted. there32.

any discussion? If not, a11 in favor signify by saying Aye. A1133.

l84

t. opposed. The Ayes have it. The vote is reconsidered. Senator

2. Carroll now moves to Table Committee Amendment No. 2 to House Bill

3. 1641. Al1 in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes

4. have it. Amendment No. is Tabled. Further amendments?

5. SECRETARY:


7. PRESIDENT:

g. 3rd reading. 1643, Senator Maitland. On le Order of House

: Bills 3rd reading, House Bill 1643. Senator Maitland seeks leave

yc of the Body to return 1643 to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes

11 of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the

z Order of House Bi1ls...2nd reading is House Bill 1643. Mr. Secretary.1 .

SECRETARY:13.

Amendment No. 2 offered by Senator Maitland.l4.

PRESIDENT:l5.

Senator Maitland.l6.

SENATOR MAITLAND:

Thank you, Mr. President. 1:11 refer to Senator Carroll.l8.

PRESIDENT:19.

Senator Carroll.20.

SENATOR CARROLL:2l.

Thank you, Mr. Fresident...Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.22.

The is an add-back of six positions that the Department had placed23.

as its priority in an attempt to avoid a conference committee. We have24.

negokiated with them this particular budget and I would move adoption2b.


PRESIDENT:

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No. to28.

House Bill 1643. Is there any discussion? If not: a1l in favor29.

Signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment30.

is adopEed. Any further amendments.3l.

. SECRETARY:32.


185

1. PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. 1645, Senator Rupp. On *he Order of House Bills

3rd reading is House Bill 1645. Senator Rupp seeks leave of the

4. Body to return this bill to the Order of 2nd for purposes of an

5. amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order of

6. House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1645. Mr. Secretary.

7. SECRETARY:

8. Mr. President, I don't have an amendment on this bill.

9 PRESIDENT:

lc There is nothing on file. How did it get on the list?

SECRETARY:1l.

Just a minute, Mr. President. Number is out of order.

Amendment No. 4 offered by Senator Regner.l3.

PRESIDENT:l4.

Senator Sommer.l5.

SENATOR SOMMER:l6.

May I ask leave to handle this since Senator Rggner isn't here?l7.

PRESIDENT:l8.

Leave is granted.l9.

SENATOR SOMMER:20.

I would ask at this time, having voted on the prevailing side2l.

that we Table..vrecohsider the vote by which Amendment No. 2 was

adopted and then move to Table.

PRESIDENT:

A11 right. Senator Sommer seeks leave of the Body to...or seeks25.

to...has moved to reconsider the vote by which Amendment No. 2 to26.

House Bill 1645 was adopted. A11 in favor signify by saying Aye.27.

Al1 opposed. The Ayes have it. The vote is reconsidered. Senator28.

Sommer now moves to Table Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 1645. Ts29.

there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying Aye.30.

A11 opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment is Tabled. Further3l.

amendments?

SECRETARY:

186

1. Amendment No. 4 offered by Senator Regner.

2. FRESIDENT:

Senator...sommer.

4. SENATOR SOMMER:

5. This amendment provides the money for the move. It's now been

6. justified and we have the information. We hope to avoid a conference

7. by adding this.

8. FRESIDENT:

:. A11 right. Senator Sommer has moved the adoption of Amendment

1c. No. 4 to House Bill 1645. there any discussion? If not, al1

11. in favor signify by sayihg Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it.

12 The amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?

ya SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:

16 3rd reading. 1653. Senator Walsh seeks leave of the Body

to return House Bill 1653 to the Order of 2nd reading for purposesl7.

of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order ofl8.

House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1653. Mr. Secretary.l9.

SECRETARY:20.

Amendment No. 2 offered by Senator Carroll.2l.

PRESIDENT:22.

Senator Carroll.23.

SENATOR CARROLL:24.

Mr. President, first we would have to...having voted on the

prevailing side move to reconsider the vcte by which Amendment No.26.

l was adopted for purposes of Tabling and then replace it with the27.

corrective amendment.28.

PRESIDENT:29.

A11 right. Senator Carroll moves to reconsider the vote by30.

which Amendment No. 1 to House Bill 1645 was adopted. AA in favor3l.

signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. The vote32.

is reconsidered. Senator Carroll now moves to Table Amendment No.33.

187

to House Bill 1645. Is khere any discussion? If not,2. favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. The

3. amendment is Tabled. Further amendments?

4. SECRETARY:


6. PRESIDENT:

7. Senator Carroll.

8. SENATOR CARROLL:

9. Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

1c. This is a corrective amendment at khe corrected amount to meek the

needs of this office and hopefully avoid conference. would

12 move adoption of Amendment No. 2. It restores éome three thousand

dollars.l3.

PRESIDENT:14.

5 Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendmentl .

6 House Bill 1645. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favorl .

signify by saying Aye. opposed. The Ayes have Thel7.

amendment is adopted. Further amendments?18.

SECRETARY:l9.


PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. 1679, Senator Vadalabene. On the Order of House

Bills 3rd reading, top of page 12 is House Bill 1679. Senator Vada-23.

labene seeks leave of the Body to return that bill to the Order of24.

2nd reading for purposes of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave25.

is granted. On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1679.26.

Mr. Secretary.27.

SECRETARY:28.

Amendment No. l offered by Senator Vadalabene.29.

PRESIDENT:30.

Senator Vadalabene.

SENATOR VADALABENE:32.

' Yes, Amendmenk No. to House amends on page line33

.

l88

13 by inserting after period the following: This section shall

apply only to school districts having less than five hundred

thousand inhabitan*s and I move for adoption to Amendment

4. PRESIDENT:

5. Senator Vadalabene has moved the adoption of Amendment No.

6. to House Bill 1679. there any discussion? Senator Maitland.

SENATOR MAITLAND:

8. Yes, thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

9 Senate. Why, Senator Vadalabene?

lc PRESIDENT:

Senator Vadalabene.

a SENATOR VADALABENE:1 .

Yes # this is a residency requirement bill and it amendsl 3 .

Chicago out of it because the already adopt this by ordinance .14 .

PRES IDENT :l 5 .

Further discuss ion? Senator Davidson .l 6 .

SENATOR DAVIDSON :t 7 .

Well, T thought Chicago had a residency requirement and byl8.

you amending them ouE then Chicago will be able to make a requirement

for residency for their teachers, but none of the other districts.20.

of the State will. Is that correct?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Vadalabene.


Yes, that is correct.25.

PRESIDENT:26.

Is there any further discussion? If not, Senator Vadalabene27.

has moved the adoption of Amendment No. to House Bill 1679. A1l28.

in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it.29.The amendment is adopted. Further amendments?3û

.

SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:33. '.

l89

3rd reading. 1682. Senator Netsch seeks leave of the Body

2. to return House Bill 1682 to the Order of 2nd reading for the

3. purpose of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. on

4. the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1682. Mr. Secretary.

5. SECRETARY:

6. Amendment No. offered by Senator Carroll.

7. PRESIDENT:

8. Senator Carroll.

9. SENATOR CARROLL:

lo. Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

11 This is to restore some funding for a vacant position. We had taken

12 out too much in the original amendment and I would move adoption of

13 Amendment No.

PRESIDENT:14.Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No. tol5

.

House Bill 1682. there any discussion? If not al1 in favorl6.

signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment


SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:2l.

3rd reading. Top of page 13, 1911. Senator Rupp seeks leave of22.

this Body to return House Bill 1911 to the Order of 2nd reading for23.

purposes of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On24.

'the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1911. Mr.25

.

Secretary.26.

SECRETARY:27.

Amendment No. 3 offered by Senatom Davidson, Rupp and Vadalabene.28.

PRESIDENT:29.

Senator Rupp...oh, I beg your pardon. Senator Davidson.30.

SENATOR DAVIDSON:3l.

id t Mr Secretary, we had an amendment that weMr. Pres en ... .32.

adopted...l think Amendment No. 2 that deals with one thirty-33.

190

1. second and then two thirty-seconds. We have to Table that amendment.

Tell me whether it's l or would you please?

3. SECRETARY:

4 Amendment No.

5 SENATOR DAVIDSON:

Mr. President, I move to...

PRESIDENT:7.

Senator Davidson moves to reconsider the vote by which Amendment8. .

No. 2 to House Bill 1911 was adopted. A1l in 'favor signify by saying9.

Aye. Al1 opposed. The Ayes have it. The vote is reconsidered.l0.

Senator Davidson now moves to Table Amendment No. 2 to House Billl1.

1911. A1l in favor signify by saying Aye. opposed. The Ayesl2.

have it. The amendment is Tabled. Further amendments?13.

SECRETARY:l4.

Amendment No. 3 offered by Senators Davidsonz Rupp and Vadalabene.l5.

PRESIDENT:l6.

Senator Davidson.


Mr. President and members of the Senater this amendment does19.

what the last half of Amendment No. 2 did which we agreed in commit-

tee that three thirty-seconds will go to the Bi-state for this year2l.

and automatically July 1980, will go back down to two thirty-22.

seconds unless they put a local effort to it. If they donlt put a23.

local effort, it goes to one thirty-second. The first part of24.

Amendment No. 2 is not necessary because that's been worked out under25.

the distributive formula to the other mass transit districts down-26. .

state. l4ove the adoption of Amendment No. 3.27.

PRESIDENT:2:.

Senator Davidson has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 329.

to House Bill 1911. Is there any discussion? no*, a11 in favor30.

signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendment31.

is adopted. Furtier amendments.32.

SECRETARY:33.


2. PRESIDENT:

3. 3rd reading. 1935, Senator Washington. On the Order of

4. House Bills 3rd reading, page is House Bill 1935. Senator

5. Washington seeks leave of the Body to return 1935 to the Order of

6. 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave

7. is granted. On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading is House Bill

8. 1935. Mr. Secretary.

9 SECRETARY:

1c. Amendment No. offered by Senators Joyce and Bloom.

11 PRESIDENT:

2 Senator Joyce.l .

SENATOR JEREMIAH JOYCE:13.

Yes, Mr. President. Thank you. This is the multi-bank holding14.

company. We have...l have been asked by several members to put thisl5.

amendmenk on on a separate bill. This deletes the other bill that...l6.

and it will be...we'll be acting on it as a separate issue. We havel7.

not done that Ehis Session. I won't bring back again, but Illinoisl8.

is only one of two States in the nation that is clinging to an archaic

unit banking system and these amendments would allow banks to affiliake

under a common ownership through a multi-bank holding company. There2l.

are five holding company regions to be established in...let's see.22.

The holding companies are regulated by the Federal Reserve under the23.

Federal Banking Holding Act, 1956, and so forth. We have discussed24.

this issue before and I will be happy to answer any questions and25.

defer to Senator Bloom if I canït.26.

PRESIDENT:27.

28.

29.

30.

32.33. (END OF REEL #5)

Reel 46

SENATOR BLOOM :

Well, let's...let's take some questions on this. mean,

3. now that Ilm unmuzzled, I don't think it's any...I don't think

4. it's any secret as to my feelings. It's long overdue, that

5. somehow the commercial banking facet of the finance industry

6. ought to be dragged into the 20th Century and the multibank

7 holding company approàch is the most painless way, it gives

a small bankers a...a break. Be glad to answer any questions

on the bill as...on the amendment as offered.9.

P RESIDENT:l0.

Further discussion? Senator Nash.ll.

SENATOR NASH:l2.

Yeah, Mr. Fresident, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.l3.

You tried putting this same amendment on last week and it wasl4.

defeated. Now why are we wasting the Senate's time with thel5.

same subject. We do have a bill, M Ge working study sub-l6.

committee that would deal with this subject. I don't thinkl7.

we need- .l urge a No vote.l8. .

PRESIDENT:l9.

You're- .you're third. You're third. Further discussion?20.

Senator Buzbee.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank you, Mr. President. A few years ago I sponsored

a bill in the Senate which dealt with another subject.24.

went to Senator- .then Senator Hynes and asked him to vote25.

for my bill and he said, ''well I've, so far when this26.

has come up I've voted Yes, No and 'Present, so 1'm flexibleu.27.

I've kind of been flexible on this...on this situation.28.

As I have explaned to Senator Bloom and other people before,29.

I don't have any idea what the impact of this is, I haven't30.

found a banker yet who's been able to explain to me what3l.

the impact of this is, because from time to Eime my bankers32.

in my district change their own positions. don't know if33.

193

this is good for consumers or not good for consumers and

until the banking industry gets their act together in

1* this State, I'm just going to announce right now,

4* voting No on every banking bill that comes before this

5. Body from now on and every amendment. I had to ask Senator

6. Joyce awhile ago how I'd voted on this the first timezlcause

1, quite frankly, don't remember. So, Iîm going to vote

8. No. He informed me i voted yes the last time, so thatfll

9. make me...I can be on a11 sides of the issue now. I'm

l0. going to vote No on everything that deals with banks from

now on, I'm going to vote No on till the banks get their

act toqether and decide what's good for consumers.

l3. PRESIDENT:

l4. Further discussion? Senator Gitz.

l5. SENATOR GITZ:

l6. Mr. President and members of the Senate. rise on

l7. this amendment as a member of the Finance Committee. I'd

18. like to remind the members that this was aired. It was

19. probably the most vigorous discussion that took place in

20. quite a while in the Finance Committee. There is a working

subcommittee. Therels an o1d saying, ''if it isn't brokez

don't fix it.'' don't understand why there's this compelling

argument that we have to deal with this situation only. Senator

24. Buzbee posed the question, what happens if we adopt this?

ab Two of the things which have happened in other states which

26 have adopted this, the fact that there's a further concentration

27 of power and the charter request for new banks have receded,

28 they have reduced themselves. Now I have banks on both sides

29 of the question, but I'd like to suggest aqain. If isn't

ao broke, donlt fix it. This is going to be thoroughly aired in

31 the coming months in subcommittee hearings, it will be around

aa the State. I see no necessity in the waning hours of this

a Session that we have to adopt this amendment , which has very3 .

194

1. far reaching ramifications.

2. PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? senator D'Arco.

4. SENATOR D'ARCO:

5. Well.- this amendment has been a bill on.- it's going to

6. wind up in a conference commiEtee on some bill. It's been

.. .around about six or seven times now and it'll be around

g a few other times until we adjourn and then when I go home

9 and sleep, it's going to wind up in my dreams. I oppose

this amendment and it's drivinq me nuts.l0.

PRESIDENT:ll.

Is there any further discussion? Senator Egan.l2.

SENATOR EGAN:l3.

Yes, it's hard to kill a good idea.14.

P RESIDENT:l5.

Further discussion? Senator Bowers.l6.

SENATOR BOWERS:l7.

Well, thank you, Mr. President. In answer to Senator D'Arco,18.

I think this is Ehe sK oM time we've considered this. And in answer19.

to Senator Gitz, it seems to me that this is an awfully important2 () .

subject and I would agree with him, except khat we have some other2l.

bills floating around here that we've already passed out that22.

also impact on this. I think the two are tied together. We

a11 know really what i: does. It's an extremely limited and

just have to over emphasize that, it's an extremely limited

Eype of holding company. for the life of me, do not see how26.

any smalltime banker or small banker can positively think that27.

he can be- .or possibly think that he can be hurt by this.28.

good leqislation. Itds as much of a compromise as weîre ever29.

goinq to get and I would hope we could pass it out of here.30.

PRESIDENT:3l.

Further discussion? Senator Demuzio.32.

SENATOR DEMUZIO:

19 5

k

1* Well just have one question of the. n of khe sponsor.2. Is the

- .is the de novo out of this? It is. Well, someone had

3. suggested to me that this is the medley movers of the. . .of the

4* session, so I would rise in opposition to this- .this amendment.

5. P RESIDENT:

6. Senator Knuppel.

7. SENATOR KNUPPEL:

8. With the exception of- .we- .we go from the ridiculous

9. to the.- sublime, but with the exçeption for a couple of hours

l0. here when we were dealing with the replacement of the Corporate

ll. Person al Properky Tax, hell, a1l we've dcing is shredding

l2. paper here for the last two weeks. And here we are with the

13. Medley Multibanking Bill and gentleman across the way says

l4. this is just an easy little uncomplicated bill. Well, 1611l5. remind him, èntry is the most difficult part, and after that

l6. there's nothing to it.

l7. P RESIDENT:

18. Further discussion? Senator Joyce may close.

SENATOR JEROME JOYCE:

I ask for a favorable roll call.

PRESIDENT :

22. The question on the adoption of Amendment No. l to House

23. Bill 1935. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will

24. vote Nay. The voting open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have

2s. a1l voted who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Take the record.

26. On that question the Ayes are the Nays are none Voting

27. Present. The amendment fails. Further amendments?

28. SECRETARY:

a9 No further amendments.

3û. 'PRESIDENT:

Senator Bloom, for what purpose do you arise?

2 SENATOR .BLOOM:3 .

I wanted a verification of the negative votes.33.

l96

PRESIDENT:

That requesk is in order. A1l riqht, will the members

). please be in thekr seats. Senator Bloom has requested a

4. verification of the negative votes. The Secretary will

5. read the negative votes and ask the membership to respond.

6. SECRETARY:

The following voted in the negative; Becker, Bruce, Buzbee,

g Carroll, Coffey, Collins, D'Arco, DeAngelis, Demuzio: Geo-Karis,

Gitz, Graham, Johns, Knuppel, Maitland...no...McMillan, Merlo,9.

Nash, Nedza, Netsch, Nimrod, Ozinga, Rupp, Savickas, Sommer,l0.

Vadalabene, Weaver.1l.

PRCSIDENT:

Sehator Bloom.l3.

SENATOR BLOOM:l4.

Coffey.l5.

P RESIDENT:l6.

Senator Coffey on the Floor? He is on the Floor.l7.

SENATOR BLOOM:l8.

DeAngelis.l9.

PRESIDENT:20.

Senator DeAngelis on the Floor? Is SenaEor DeAngelis on2l.

the Floor? Strike his name from the roll, Mr. Secretary.22.

SENATOR BLOOM:

Okay...senator Savickas.24.

PRESIDENT:25.

Senator Savickas is on the Floor.26.

SENATOR BLOOM:27.

Philip...senator Philip.28.

PRESIDENT:29.

Senator Philip is not on the roll call.30.

SENATOR BLOOM:3l.

Okay, thank you.32.

PRESIDENT:33.34. A11 right. The roll has been verified. There are 26 Ayes

35. and 26 Nays, none Present. The amendment fails. Further amendments?

l97

1 >

toX aq q4 yh o-g

SECRETARY:


). PRESIDENT:

4. 3rd reading. 1936 did...that.- that amendment will be

5. withdrawn. 2012, Senator Bruce. On the Order of House Bills

6. 3rd reading, bottom of page 13 is House Bill 2012. Senator

Bruce seeks leave of the Body to rekurn that bill to 2nd

8 reading for purposes of an amendment. 2012, Mr. Secretary.

: On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading House Bi11 2012.

Mr. Secretary.l0.

SECRETARY:11.

Amendment No. 7 offered by Senator Bruce.l2.

PRESIDENT:13.

Senator Bruce.l4.

SENATOR BRUCE:l5.

Thank you, Mr. President. House Bill 2012, Senator Merlol6.

put on an amendment which I have discussed with him that relatesl7.

to the downstate Teacher's Retirement System on this particularl8.

bill. The problem is that we already have many districts thatl9.

are already sheltering pension income and they have already2 () .

received from the Internal Revenue Service opinions on the2l.

matter. Therefore, it is unnecessary and tends to complicate

accounting procedures and payments to the Internal Revenue

Service. The amendment corrects that and makes sure that the24.

chief administrator of the Teacher Retirement System Board can25.

handle the deductions presently in existence and school boards26.

that have already agreed and gone into this operation. And27.

would move the adoption of Amendment No. 7.28. .

PRESIDENT:29. .

Senator Bruce has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 730.

to House Bill 2012. Is there any discussion? If not, all in

favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it#32.

the amendment is adopted. Furthey amendments?33.

198

SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. 2194. Senator Gitz. The middle of page l5,

4. on the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, is House Bill 2194.

5. Senator Gitz seeks leave of the Body to return that bill to

6. the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment. Is leave

granted? Leave is granted. On the Order of House Bills 2nd

a reading, House Bill 2194. Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY :9.

Amendment No. 2 offered by Senator Gitz.l0.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Gitz.12.

SENATOR GITZ:l3.

Mr. President and members of the Senate. Amendment No. 2l4. ,

corrects an existing technical defect in the bill. This portionl5.

of House Bill 2194 relates to notices, to taxpayer homeowners.l6.

The way the bill is presently constituted, it would suggest Ehatl7.you would have to put a notice in the newspaper for each and18

.

every homeowner. That certainly is not our intent. This changesl9.

it to a plural. urge its adoption.20.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Gitz has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 2 to

House Bill 2194. Is there any discussion? Senator McMillan.23.


Senakor Gitz has discusse d that amendment to me. don't25.

think changes the bill substantially, but does prevent26.

what could be a...a situation which he didn't intend and I27.

think the amendment acceptable.28.

PRESIDENT:29.

A11 riuht. Senator Gitz has moved the adoption of Amend-30 '

ment No. 2 to House Bill 2194. A1l in favor signify by saying3l.

Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it. The amendmenk is adopted.32.

Any further amendments?33.34. SECRETARY:

199

:

t. No further amendments.' i2. PRESIDENT:

). 3rd reading. 2205, Senator Berman. Top of page 16 on the

4. Order of House Bills 3rd reading is House Bill 2205. Senator

5. Berman seeks leave of this Body to return 2205 to the Order

6. of 2nd reading for the purpose of Tabling an amendment. On!

7 the Order of House Bills 2nd reading is House Bill 2205. '

senator Berman. I8. !

. !SENATOR BERMAN: I9. i

's under 1Thank you, Mr. President. The amendment thatl0. 1

consideration now was a.- question as to whether the Special !l1. I

!EducaEion 'Program run by the Department of Corrections should i12.

be under the Department...funded under the Department ofl3.

Corrections or funded through the Illinois Office of Education. !l4.

:Yeskerday we put Amendment No. 2 on which shifted them.- which jl5.

ikept them under the Department of Corrections. The staff has 'l6

. 1analyzed and Senator Buzbee and I have discussed. Wedve agreed (17

. i

that they should...we should accede to the request of thel8.

Department of Corrections and Department of Illinois Officel9.

of Education and...allow khem to be funded as is every other20.

type of school facility through the Illinois Office of Education.2l.

Therefore I move to reconsider the vote by which Amendment No. 222. :

was adopted and I will then Table it.' 23.PRESIDENT:24

. ::

, A11 right. Senator Berman has moved to reconsider the25.

1 vote by which Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 2205 was adopted.26. .

A1l in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes27.

have it. The vote is reconsidered. Senator Berman now moves28.

to Table Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 2205. Is there any29.

discussion? If not, a1l in favor signify by saying Aye. :30.' I

' Al1 opposed. The Ayes have itz the amendment is Tabled. !3l.

Any further amendments?32. . .

SECRETARY:33.34. No further amendments.

200

X AQ

% )1. %

/ 4%

FRESIDENT:

2. 3rd reading. 2301, Senator Schaffer. In the middle of page

17 on the Order of House Bills 3rd reading is House Bill 2301.

4* senator Schaffer seeks leave of the Body to return 2301 to

5. the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment. Is leave

6. granted? Leave is granted. On the Order of House Bills 2nd

7. reading, House Bill 2301, Mr. Secretary.

8. SECRETARY:

9. Amendment No. 2 offered by Senakor Schaffer.

10. 'PRESIDENT:

1l. Senator Schaffer.

12. SENATOR SCHAFFER:

Mr. President and members of the Senate. This bill deals

14 with immunization levels in our school children. After going

l5. through two committee hearings and being over here for the

l6. better part of Ehree months, a small army of lobbyists maintained

17 down here by the education people sudden ly discovered that they

1a might have troubles living up to the compliance leveH m This

la amendment would loosen those, provide for eighty percent

20 compliance at first and then ninety percent. The City of

21 Chicago indicakes they can meet those standards and perhaps

22 the reasonable khing to do.

PRESIDENT:23.Senator Schaffer has moved the adoption of Amendment No.

to House Bill 2301. Is there any discussion? If not, in

favor signify by saying Aye. Al1 opposed. The Ayes have it,26.

the amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?27.

SECRETARY:28.

aq No further amendments.

PRESIDENT:3û.3rd reading. 2426, Senator Sommer. On the Qrder of House31

.

Bills 3rd reading, the middle of page 19 is House Bill 2426.32.

Senator Sommer seeks leave of the Body return that bill

:. to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment. Is

2. leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order of House Bills

2nd reading, House Bill 2426, Mr. Secretary.

4. SECRETARY:


6. P RESIDENT:

7. Senator Carroll.

8. SENATOR CARROLL:

9 Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

lc Senate. This is a reduction in the reappropriation for a

project...to...take out a project that has been dropped byll.Space Needs and I would move adopEion of Amendment No. 5.l2.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No.l4.

to House Bill 2426. Is there any discussion? If notr all

in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have16.

it. The amendment is adopted. Further amendments?l7.

SECRETARY:l8.


PRESIDENT:20.

3rd reading. 2508, Senator Wooten. On the Order of House2l.

Bills 3rd reading, at the bottom of page 20 is House Bill22.

2508. Senator...Wooten seeks leave of the Body to return23.

that bill to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an24. ,

amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is g/anted. On the Order

of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bills 2508, Mr. Secretary.26.

SECRETARY:27.

Amendment No. offered by Senators Moore and Bermank28.

P RESIDENT:29.

Senator Moore.30.

' SENATOR MOORE:31.

Thank you, Mr. President, members of the Senate. Amendment32.

No 2 to' House Bill 2508 provides that a school board of any

202

district which prior to the amendatory...the date of this

Amendatory Act has contracted for health care services with

a not-for-profit corporation may levy a tax not to exceed

4. percent of the value of the taxable property for a term of not

5. more than four years in order to maintain health care purposes.

6. This applies...and this bill, or this amendment has been

drafted very carefully. It applies to only one school district

g in the State of Illinois, the Robbins-posen school district

in...in my district. We.- they have embarked upon a model9.

yc plan whereby they are providing health care for this very,

very poor area.- in- .in my district and the State of Illinois.

It's one of the poorest school districts the State. As said,l2.

it's worded so that it only applies to this one school district.13.

It can only be levied for up to four years. There is a provision14.

for a backdoor referendum. I'd appreciate a favorable roll call.l5.

P RESIDENT:l6.

A11 right. Senator Moore has moved the adoption of Amend-l7.

ment No. 2 to House Bill 2508. Is there any discussion? Ifl8.

not, all in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The19.

Ayes have it, the amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?20.

SECRETARY:2l.


PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. 2526. Senator Merlo, on the bottom of page 20.24.

Senator Merlo seeks leave the Body to return House Bill 252625.

to the Order of 2nd rpading for purposes of an amendment. Is26. ' .

leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order of House Bills27.

2nd reading, House Bill 2526. Senator Merlo.28.

SENATOR MERLO:29.

Thank youw Mr. President. I would like to yield to Senator3O.

D'Arco to remove a...an amendment.3l.

P RESIDENT :32.

Senator D 'Arco.33.

203

0<

>.X -.qA

yb$*

t. SENATOR o'ARco:

2. Thank you, Mr. President. What we did yesterday was to

amend the Guarantee Sales Act that will come into effect

for real estate brokers to provide that &ey put up ten percent

5. of the sales price of the house in escrow. That...I got some

6. feedback on it. It's a little stringent, there is a penalty

7. provision in this bill now that says that there would be

a ten thousand dollar fine and revocation of their license

9. they did violate the Act. We think that's consistent

l0. with the bill, therefore, move to reconsider the vote

b which Amendment No. l to House Bill 2526 was adopted.ll. y

l2. PRESIDENT:

13 Senator D'Arco has moved to Table Amendment No.

14. to House Bill 2526. Is there any discussion? If not, a11

in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have

16 it. Oh, it was adopted, I beg your pardon. A1l right. Senator

17 D'Arco has movéd to reconsider the vote by which Amendment No. l

la to House Bill 2526 was adopted. A1l in favor signify by saying

lq Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it. The vote is now reconsidered.

ao Senator D'Arco now moves to Table Amendment No. l to House Bill

2y 2526. in favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The

22 Ayes have ite the amendment is Tabled. Further amendments?

SECRETARY:23.


PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading is26.

House Bill 2563. Senator Egan seeks leave of the Body to return27.

2563 to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment.28.

Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order of House29.

Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 2563, Mr. Secretary.30.

SECRETARY:3l.

Amendment No.n Amendment No. 2 offered by Senator Berman.32.

PRESIDENT:33.

204

Amendment No. 2, Senator Rupp.

SENATOR RUPF:

3* Thank you, Mr. President. The question...

4. PRESIDENT:

5. Is. . .who's the...wait a minute. Senator Berman is it your

6. amendment? Oh, I beg your pardon. Senator Berman.

7. SENATOR BERMAN:

8. Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment adds two categories

9. to the exemptions listed under the Tax Limitation Bill. The

10. first exemption would be the working cash funds and the other

ll. one is the Governmental Tort Immunity Fund. Move the adoption

l2. of Amendment No. 2.

PRESIDENT:

l4. All right. Senator Berman has moved *he adopkion of

l5. Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 2563. there any discussion?

16. Senator Rupp.

l7. SENATOR RUPP:

l8. Question. 1...1 hàve in front of me an Amendment No.

l9. already.

20. PRESIDENT:

21. Senator...Egan.

22. SENATOR EGAN:

23. Yes...I Tabled Committee Amendment No. 1, we adopted

Amendment No. 2 on the Floor so Senator Rupp is correct, this

should properly be Amendment No. 3.

26. FRESIDENT;

27. Senator Berman has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 3

28. t'o House 2563. Is there any discussion? Senator Mchlillan.


30. Well, if itîs been settled that welre talking about the

3l. same amendment here, itls...itls on line. Is this the one

32. that's on line 9 begins with 10 in parentheses? And are you

saying that you want to have exempt from the limitations

1.

2.

205

!

. ;

1. what the school can levy for the working cash fund and are 1,

2. you saying you want to exempt from the limit tax levies pursuant

3 to the provisions of local government and Government Employees

4 Tort Immunity Act? 1...1 really think the first one particularly

s qets to a position where we're providing no limitation at all.!

6 Is that the amendment we're talking about Senator Eqan?iPRESIDENT

: j7.;

senator Berman. 18. .

SENATOR BERMAN:9.

Yes, that's the amendment.l0.

PRESIDENT: 1ll.senator McMillan. 112. ,

SENATOR MCMILLAN: ll3. 1

could I ask then why it's necessary to exempt the levy 1l4. I

for the working cash fund?l5.

PRESIDENT:16.

Senator Berman. 1l7. :

SENATOR BERMAN: !l8. !

Both of these are in response to the.- to the needs of !l9. i

the schools in particular and other units of local government :20. j

in order for them to operate on a day to day basis. The working !21. i

icash fund is...is exactly that. It's to...to allow the schools22. :1to have ongoing cash resources in order to meet their bills.23 !

The second one is to respond to the costs of tort liability, '24.

: but even more onerous is the imposition that has been imposed i. 25. I

upon them through unemployment compensation expenses. And26. ::

in order for them to meet the mandakes that have been imposed, ;27. l

iI am suggesting strongly that these two funds be exempt. .28. 1

IHV SIDENT:

29. lIs there further discussion on Amendment No. 3? Senator I30

. 1Rupp. (

. 3l. 1SENATOR RUPP: j32

. iThank you, Mr. President. I would like to have a question 1!

33. !34. on number 2 when it comes. i

J' 1206, I

1i

. '

j. . I

PRESIDENT:

2. Well, that's not in order at this point. You can question

3. the when.. .

4. SENATOR RUPJP:

5. m rdon, no that's what my original- .question was. It was

6. on...number 2 not number 3 and then it went ahead.

7. PRESIDENT:

8. A1l right. Senator Weaver.

9. SENATOR WEAVER:

lo. Question of the sponsor, Mr.president.

1l. PRESIDENT:

12 Indicates he'll yield, Senator Weaver.

13 SENATOR WEAVER:

14 Well, Senator Berman, aren't you just about gutting the15 bill then with this amendment?

16 PRESIDENT:

Senator Berman.

18 SENATOR BERMAN:

No, just to the contrary. Welre taking two distihctl9.funds and we're indicating that they should be added to the

. ..1ong list of exemptions.2l.

P RESIDENT:22.

Senator Weaver.23.

SENATOR WEAVER:24.

I wonder what percentage of the coverage of this bill25.

would be represented by these two exemptions...of the local26.

tax bill?27.

PRESIDENT:28.

Senator Berman.29.

SENATOR BERMAN:30.

I don't have those figures, but I...my impression would be...

slight.32.

PRESIDENT:33.

2 0 7

Senator Weaver.

SENATOR WEAVER:

). Well it may be slight in your area, but it's about seventy

4. percent in my area.

5. PRESIDENT:

6. Senator Berman.

7. SENATOR BERMAN:

g. 1...1111 close it.

9 PRES IDENT:

lc Further discussion on Amendment No. Senator Shapiro.

yl SENATOR SHAPIRO:

12 Mr. W es ident , will the sponsor of the amendment.- yield

3 for a question?l .

P RESIDENT :l 4 .

Indicates he wi 11 yield . Senator Shapiro .l 5 .

SENATOR SHAPIRO:l 6 .

Senator Berman , is this a tax limitxati on bill or is itl 7 . 1

no t . . . now if this amendment is adopted?l 8 .

PRESIDENT :l 9 .

Senator Berman .2 0 .

SENATOR BERMM :2 l .

It 's a tax limitation bill with certain funds exemptéd .2 2 .

PRE SIDENT :

Sen ator Shapiro . Sena tor Wooten . . .Rupp . Well r the problem

I have , Senator Rupp is that M endment No. 2 has been. . .has been2 b .

adopted and tha k is not now bef ore the Body . Senator Rupp .2 6 .

SENATOR RUPP :2 7 .

. . .We1l 1et me just . . .1 . . . this was khe ene I came up2 8 .

and asked you about Amendment No . 2 has a . . . lM e wr i tten through2 9 .

it in ink .3 0 .

PRESIDENT: '. 3 1 .

Oh , that is correct. . . that is correct . You did ask me3 2 .

about . . .1 didn ' t know that was your point . The question here

1.

208

1. was whether or not had been adopted . It had, fact, been

adopted...T think prior to passage you certainly have a right

3. to call into question. Any further discussion on Amendment

4. No. 3. If not, Senator Berman may close.

5. S ENATOR BERMAN:

6. Thank you. This amendment to House Bill 2563 was requested

by the Illinois Ass ociation of School Boards. It's in order

g. to- .it's a...it's an amendment that will allow the schools

9 to respond to their needs for working cash from day to day and

lo to also respond to mandates that have been imposed upon them

11 in the payment par ticularly of Unemplo yment D surance costs.

I urge your affirmative vote.l2.

PRE SIDENT:l3.

Al1 right. Senator Berman has moved the adoption ofl4. .

Amendment No. 3 to House Bill 2563. Is there any discussion?l5.

If not, all in favor signify by saying Aye. Roll call has beenl6.

requested. Those kn favor of the amendment w i11 vo te Aye.l7.

Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a1ll8.

voted uho w % h? Have al1 voted who wish? Take the record.l9.

On that question the Ayes are 26# the Nays are 25, 3 Voting20.

Present. The amendment is adopteô. Senator Weaver for what2l.

pur pose do you arise? Senator Weave'r has requested a verification.22.

Will all' the members please be their seats. Secretary will

read the affirmative votes, we ask the membership to respond.24.

Mr. Secretary.25.

S ECRETARY:26.

The fo llowing voted in the H firmative; Berman, Carroll,27.

Chew, Collinsz D'Arco, Daley, Egan, Gitz, Hall, Johns, Knuppel:28.

Lemke, Maragos, McLendon, M erlo, Nashr Nedza, Nega, Netsch,29.

Newh ouse, Sangmeis ter, Savickas, Vadalabene, Washington, Wooten,30.

Mr. President.3l.

P RES D ENT:

Senator Weaver.

209

SENATOR WEAVER:

Senator Chew.

PRESIDENT:

4 Right in the middle aisle, Senator Chew is on the Floor.

5 SENATOR WEAVER:

6 Senator Newhouse.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Newhouse is over with Senator Washington right on8.

the Floor.9.

SENATOR WEAVER:10.

Senator Johns.ll.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Johns on the Floor? Senator Johns on the Floor?l3.

Strike his name from the roll, Mr. Secretary. On that...yesl4. .

senator Berman.l5.

SENATOR BERMAN:l6.

Request a verification of the- .of the negative.l7.

PRESIDENT:l8.

Senator Berman has requested a verificakion of the negativel9.

votes. Will the members please be in their seats. Secretary20.

will read the neqative votes.2l.

SECRETARY :22.

The following voted in the negative; Becker, Berning, Bloom,23.

Bowers, Coffey, Davidson, DeAngelis, Geo-Karis, Graham, Grotberg,

Maitland, Martin, McMillan, Mitchler, Moore, Nimrod, Ozinga, 'Philip,

Regner, Rupp, Schaffer, Shapiro, Sommer, Walsh and Weaver.26.

PRESIDENT:27.

Senator Berman.28.

SENATOR BERMAN;29.

Senator Moore.30.

P RESIDENT:31.

' Senator Moore on the Floor? Senator Moore on the Floor?

32. .Strike his hame from Ehe roll, Mr. Secretary. Senator Weaver,

33.34. for what purpose do you arise?

2l0

1. SENATOR WEAVER:

2. Senator McLendon on the Floor?

PRESIDENT:

4. Wait...wait- .wait. We have already verified the...pursuant

5. to your request, we have already verified the affirmative votes.

6. Senator Berman has requested the negative votes...pardon me?

7. SENATOR WEAVER:

8. Are we still on verification?

:. PRESIDENT:

lc. We are on verification of the negative votes. On that

1l. ...the roll has been verified, on that question the Ayes are

25, the Nays are 24, 3 Voting Present. The amendment is adopted.

Further amendments?

SECRETARY:l4.


PRESTDENT;l6.

j 3rd reading. 2577, Senator Rupp. On the Order of Housel7.

Bills 3rd reading is House Bill 2577. Senator Rupp seeks leavel8.

of the Body to return 2577 to the Order of 2nd reading forl9.

purposes of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is20.

granted. On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill2l.

2577, Mr. Secretary.22.

SECRETARY:23.

Amendment No. 4 offered by Senator Carroll.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Carroll.26.

SENATOR CARROLL:27.

Firsty Mr. 'President, the technical defect, having voted28. .

on the prevailing side, I would mave to reconsider the vote29.

by which Amendment No. 2 was adopted for purposes of Tabling.30.

Amendment No. 2 dealt with UI as a breakout of extra help3l.

and we have a corrective amendment later. I eould firsk move32.

technically tq Table Amendment No. 2.33. '

2l1

PRJSIDENT:

A1l right. Senator Carroll has moved to reconsider the

3. vote by which Amendment No. 2 was adopted. A1l in favor

4. signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have it, the

5. vote is reconsidered. Senator C arroll now moves to Table

Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 2577. Al1 tn favor signify

7. by sa#ing Aye. opposed. The Ayes have the amendment

g. is Tabled. Amendment No. 3...senator Bruce. Senator Bruce

9 moves to reconsider the vote by which Amendment No. 3 to

lo House Bill 2577 was adopted. Al1 in favor signify by saying

Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it, the vote is reconsidered.

Senator Bruce now moves to Table Amendment No. to House Billl2.

2577. A11 in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. Thel3.

Ayes have it, the amendment is Tabled. Amendment...furtherl4.

amendments?l5.

SECRETARY:l6.

Amendment No. 4...offered by Senahor Carroll.17.

PRESIDENT:18.

Senator Carroll.19.

SENATOR CARROLL:20.

This would be the one then...on line...on page 2, line 8,

by deleting 32-6-83?

SECRETARY:

Right.24.

SENATOR CARROLL:2b.

Okay. This amendment makes an additional reduction of26.

seven hundred and ten thousand, four hundred in Federal Funds27.

to their appropriation request. It deals with what we had28. .

called the lump sum vacation pay amounts. The amendment divides29.

UI Personal Services into regular and extra help correcking30.

what had been the defect of number 2. We have discussed this3l.

with the department, khey are in basic accord and I would move32. .

adoption of Amendmenk 4.33.

2l2

PRESIDENT :

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 4

to Rouse Bill 2577. Is there any discussion? If not, a11 in

4. favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have

5. it,the amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?

6. SECRETARY:


8. PRESIDENT:

9. Senator Carroll.

l0. SENATOR CARROLL:

ll. Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

12. This amendment divides UI into regular and intermittent. There

l3. is no dollar change. It would help to keep a more accurate

l4. head count. I would move adoption of Amendment No. 5.

l5. PRESIDENT:

l6. Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 5

17 to House Bill 2577. Is there any discussion? If not, all in

18 favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it,

19 the amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?

2o SECRETARY:

21 Amendment No. 6 offered by Senator Carroll.

22 PRESIDENT:

23 Senator Carroll.


Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. This

26 is a decrease in BES'S CETA request of four hundred and fifty

thousand and eight hundred to bring it into conformity with27.

the pefsonal services request detailed in the budget forms.28.

I would move adoption of Amendment No. 6.29.

PRESIDENT:30.

Senator Carroll has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 63l.

to House Bill 2577. Is there any discussion? If not, a1l in32.

favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have it,33.

2.

The amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?

2. SECRETARY:


4. PRESIDENT:

5 3rd reading. Senator Buzbee ready? On the Order of

6 House Bills 3rd reading is House Bill 2649. Senator Buzbee

seeks leave to bring that bill to the Order of 2nd reading7.

for purposes of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is8.

granted. On the Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House9.

Bill 2649, Mr. Secretary.l0.

EECRETARY:1l.

Amendment No. 5 offered by Senator Buzbee.12.

PRESIDENT:l3.

Senator Buzbee.l4.

SENATOR BUZBEE:l5.

Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment restores a16.

million, five hundred thousand dollars to the Appropriationl7.

for Special Education Reimbursement to school districts servingl8. '

children in foster homes and State institutions to reflect

the reimbursement which will be grovided to the Departmentof Corrections. And it transfers five hundred thousand dollars

from the downstate Bilingual Education Appropriation to the

Appropriation for Pupil Transportation and I would move its23.

adoption.24.

PRESIDENT:25. t

A1l right. Senator Buzbee has moved the adoption of26.

Amendment No. 5 to House Bill 2649. Is there any discussion?27.

If not, al1 in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The28.

Ayes have it. The amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?29.

SECRETARY:30.

No further amendmenks.

PRESIDENT:32.

3rd reading. Senator Washington, are you ready on 893?33.34. Okay. Amendment is...all right, we don't have to worry about

i ht on to p o f p' age o n the Orde r o f Hous e Bi l l sr (J #

2 l 4

1. 3rd readO gs % House Bill 1634. Senator Mitchler seeks leave

2. of the Body to bring 1634 to the Order of 2nd reading for

). purposes of an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted.

4. On Ehe Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 1634, Mr.

5. Secretary.

6. SECRETARY:

7 Amendment No. 5 offered by Senator Regner.

g PRESIDENT:

Senator Regner.9.

SENATOR REGNER:10.

Mr President, what this does is make a technical' change1l. 'in the page number. The amendment that was offered did havel2

.

an error in a reference to a page number and I move its adoption.l3.

PRESIDENT;l4.

All right. Senator Regner has moved the adoption ofl5.

Amendment No. 5 to House Bill 1634. Is there any discussion?l6.

If not, all in favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed.17. .

The Ayes have it. The amendment is adopted. Any further amendements?l8.

SECRETARY:

20.PRESIDENT:2l

.

3rd reading. We have two other categories of bills. There22.

are two requests for bills on the Agreed Bill List and there are23.

also further amendments filed on bills that were moved this24.

morning from 2nd to 3rd reading. So in order to make some.- try25.

to make some sense ouE of this, we'll go right in order. If you'll26.

turn to page 25 on the Calendar on the Agreed Bil1 List is House27.

Bill...under House Bills 3rd reading is House Bill 832. Senator28.

Jeremiah Joyce seeks leave of this Body to return that bill to29.

khe Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment. 832, Mr.30.

Secretary. If leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order

of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 832. Mr. Secretary.32.

v SECRETARY:. 33.


2l5

Amendment No. 1 offered by Senator Bloom.

2. PRESTDENT:

3* Senator Bloom.

4. SENATOR BLOOM:

5. Thank you...Mr. President and fellow Senators. This...this

6. puts in basically the Freedom of Information Act at the State

7. level. It applies to public bodies and says whatk..where

8. feasible and possible, the information should be available.

9. Senator...senator...senator Wooten is a l'ittle more familiar

l0. with the bill so questions I can't answer perhaps he can

answer or Senator Netsch. A1l right, questions I can't answer,

12 Senator Netsch can answer.

13 PRESIDENT:

14 Is there any further discussion? Senator Bloom has moved

15 the adoption of Amendment House Bill 832. A1l in

16 favor signify by saying Aye. opposed. Roll call has

17 been requested. Those in favor of the amendment will vote

la Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have

a1l voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record.

On that question the Ayes are 16, the Nays are 30, 1 Voting

21 Present. The amendment fails. Any further amendments?

2: SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:24.

3rd reading, Agreed Bill List. A1l right, also on thè2b.

Agreed Bill List...on the bottom of page 26, House Bill 1956.26.

Senator Daley seeks leave of the Body to return that bill to27.

the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment. Is28.

leave vranted? Leave is granted. On the Order of House Bills29.

2nd reading, House Bill 1956, Secretary.30.

SECRETARY:3l.

' Amendment No. l offered by Senator Daley.32

.

PRESIDENT:33.

34. Senator Daley.

2l6

1. SENATOR DALEY:

Mr. President and fellow Senators. Amendment No. 1 deals

3. with persons appointed to be members of a police or a security

4. force within the State of Illinois working for the State, must

5. complete a course by the Illinois Local Governmental Law Enforce-

6. ment Officers Training Board in relationship to firearms training

7. for police officers. Thatls all the amendment does.

a. PRESIDENT:

2 ion of Amendment No.: Senator Daley has moved the a optlo to House Bill 1956. Is there any discussion? If not, a11 in

11 favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have

. y2 the amendment is adopted. Any further amendments?

SECRETARY:13.


PRESIDENT :

3rd reading. There are also three bills...that werel6.

advanced this morning to which there are further amendments,

House Bill 2098. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading isl8.

House Bill 2098. Senator Regner seeks leave of the Body tol9.

return that bill to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of20.

an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the21.

Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 2098, Mr. Secretary.22.

SECRETARY:23.

Amendment No. 5 offered by Senator Buzbee.24.

PRESIDENT:2b.

Senator Buzbee.26.

SENATOR BUZBEE:27.

Thank you, Mr. President. This amendment restores five28.

hundred thirty-one thousand, nine hundred dollars to the FY-18029.

appropriation of the Department of Mental Hea1th and Developmental30.

Disabilities to correct an error made in a previous Senate Amend-3l.

ment. This amount should have been added when the regional32.

offices were restored and I would move its adoption.33.

2l7

1. FRESIDENT:

2. right. Senator Buzbee has moved the adoption of

). Amendment No. 5 to House Bill 2098. Is there any discussion?

4. If not: al1 in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The

5. Ayes have the amendment is adopted. Further amendments?

6. SECRETARY:


g PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading,9.

House Bill 2425. Senator Schaffer seeks leave of the Body tol0.

return that bill to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes ofll.

an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On thel2.

Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 2425. Mr. Secretary.l3.

SECRETARY:l4.

Amendment No. offered by Senator Carroll.

FRESIDENT:l6.

Senator Carroll.17.

SENATOR CARROLL:l8.

Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of thel9.

Senate. This amendment transfers some five hundred fifty-nine20.

thousand from Personal Services into contractual in the hopes2l.

that there may be some Federal funds coming in the future22. .

and I would move adoption of Amendment No. 1. It makes no dollar...23.

PRESIDENT:24.

Senator...senator Carroll moves the adoption of Amendment

No. l to House Bill 2425. Is there any discussion? If not,26.

al1 in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes

have it. The amendment is adopted., Any further amendments?28.

SECRETARY:29.


PRESIDENT:31.

'

3rd reading. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading is32.

House Bill 2575. Senator Weaver seeks leave of the Body to33.

218

return that bill to the Order of 2nd reading for purposes of

an amendment. Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the

Order of House Bills 2nd reading, House Bill 2575, Mr. Secretary.

4. SECRETARY:

5. Amendment No. 5 offered by Senator Weaver.

d. PRESIDENT:

Senator Weaver.

8. SENATOR WEAVER:

9. Thank you, Mr. President. This would appropriate a

lc. hundred and ten thousand to the Commissioner of Banks to

administer the Electronic Funds Transfer legislation.

PRESTDENT :

ya Senator Weaver has mo ved the adoption of Amendment No. 5

to House Bill 2575. Is there any discussion? Senator Buzbee.l4.

SENATOR BUZBEE:15..

Thank your Mr. President. This amendment seems to be16.

kind of like the Multi-holding Banking Company's Bill, it17.

keeps reappearing. Werve already defeated this amendment oncel8.

today and I would suggesk that...hhak same kind'of ackionl9.ag happen once again, it'll be given the proper burial that

it deserves.21.

FRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Weaver.

SENATOR WEAVE R:24. .

Thank you, Mr. President. Well, I was led to believe2b.

that these two bills passed the House today, they formally26.

had passed the Senate. It is incumbent upon the Commissioner27.

of Banks and Trust to supervise this operation and certainly28.

there's going to be some money needed. I would rather be29.

up-front with a hundred and ten thousand dollars than to have30.

to èome in later on with a deficiency appropriation to handle

this operation by the Commissioner of Banks. I understaod

that there had been some discussion held by members on your33.

219

1. side, Senator Buzbee and that this was a reasonable amount to

2. administer Electronic Funds Transfers legislation that was

passed in the House and also in the Senate.

4 PRESIDENT:

5 Senator Buzbee.

6 SENATOR BUZBEE:

Well, I was only...withouE having that knowledge before

I spoke, Senator Weaver, still am going to oppose it8.

'cause I'm going Eo vote No on everything dealing with banks.9.But I understand your reasoning for wanting passed now.l0

.

PRESIDENT:1l.

Is there any further discussion? If not, Senator Weaverl2.

has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 5 to House Bill 2575.l3.

A1l in favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayesl4.

have the amendment is adopted. Further amendments?15.

SECRETARY:l6.


PRESIDENT:l8.

3rd reading. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading isl9.

. ..House Bi11 2012. Senator Bruce seeks leave to return that20.

bill to the Order of 2nd reading for the purpose of an amendment.2l.

Is leave granted? Leave is granted. On the Order of House Bills22.

2nd reading, House Bill 2012, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:24.


PRESIDENT:26.

Senator Bruce.27.

SENATOR BRUCE:28.

Thank your Mr.president, members of the Senate. This is29.

the legislation which allows the pension systems around the30.

State of Illinois to shelter income from taxation and this3l.

amendmenç suggested àt the behesk of Senator Merlo and many32.

of the pension systems, will allow the program to be voluntary or33.

220

or at the option of the system and I would move the adoption

of Amendment No. 8.

3. PRESIDENT:

4. senator Bruce has moved the adoption of Amendment No. 8

5. to House Bill 2012. there any discussion? Senator Berning.

6. SENATOR BERNING:

Question of the sponsor.

8. PRESIDENT)

9. Indieates he'll yield. Senator Berning.

l0. SENATOR BERNING:

Did you say that the option is strictly the system or is

l2. the participant given that option?

l3. PRESIDENT:

14. Senator Bruce.

l5. SENATOR BRUCE:

l6. No...it...it is with the system. Each employer may pick

l7. .up the contribution required by this section for all compensation

lg. earned after December 31, 1979. If an employer decides not to

19 oick up the contribution, the amount that would have been picked

2o. up shall eontinue to be deducted from eompensation. So it's....

2l. it's an employer only opted into the program. Itls been at

a2. request of some of Ehe systems that would like to watch Senate

Bill 700 which is before us and there is no objection to doing

24. it for the State University Retirement System that has been

2s. brought to my attention and they thought let's take the universities

26 and let them try if we like it welll join in the

27. next year'

28 PRESIDENT:

ag Further discussion? If not, Senator Bruce has moved the

ao. adoption of Amendment No. 8 to House Bill 2012. All in favor

a1. signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes have The

amendment is adopted* Further amendments?32.

'

SECRETARY:33.

34. No further amendmenks.

221

1. PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. Messages from the House. Senator Vadalabene,

). for what purpose do you arise?


5 Yes, in a form of an announcement before you get started

6 on some other business. In the back of the Senate Chambers

7 here just a few minutes ago, was deliberating with Senator

Netsch and as I looked over on the Floor, saw some8.

money and it was two dollars. Now, it could be that one9.

of the Pages lost these two one dollar bills and if theyl0.

are...if iE was one of them they can come over here and1l.

claim it, however if it was anyone beside Pages, they're12.

going to have to give me the serial numbers of b0th ofl3.

these bills.l4.

PRESIDENT:l5.

Senator Johnsy for what purpose do you arise?16.

SENATOR'JOHNS:l7.

That was two dollars I was betting on his horse.18.

PRESIDENT:l9.

A1l right. Messages from the House.20.

SECRETARY :2l.

A Message from the House by Mr. O'Brien, Clerk.22.

Mr. President - I am directed to inform the Senate the

House of Representatives has refused to concur with the Senate24.

in the adoption of their amendments to the following House Bills:25.

House Bill 14 Wi&' Senate Amendment No. 1.26.

House Bill 83 with Senate 'Amendment No.27. .

House Bill 751 with Senate Amendment No. 2.28.

House Bill 909 with Senate Amendment29.

House Bill 925 with Senate Amendment No.3û.

PRESIDENT :31.

Secretary's Desk, Nonconcurrence. Yes, Senator Buzbee,32.

for what purpose do you arise?33.34. SENATOR BUZBEE:

222

xtb .ç Y p z s . .Q ï%-7è to ;?-

Point of personal privilege Mr. President. I was wondering

if your...if your feelings about chicken still hold as you

3* d a couple of weeks ago that you don't like chickenannounce

4. and you don't intend to have any brought in, is that.- ?

5. PRSSIDENT:

6. You are correct. All right. With leave of the Body,

we'll move to the Order of House Bills 3rd reading. We will

8. continue where we left off the other day with House Bill 2146.

9. I would point out to the membership that we have a couple of

l0. hundred bills to consider so let's get at it. On the Order

ll. of House Bills 3rd reading, House Bill 2148, Senator Sangmeister .

12. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, House Bill 2148. Read

l3. the bill, Mr. Secretary.

l4. SEC RETARY:

l5. House Bill 2148.

16. (Secretary reads title of bill)

17. 3rd reading of the bill.

l8. PRESIDENT:

l9. Senator Sangmeister.

2o. SENATOR SANGMEISTER:

2l. Yes, Mr. President and members of the Senate. When we

22. dropped out of 3rd readings...l believe it was yesterday,

23. this was the last of the township assessor bills that I was

handling and as you recall we already passed a bill that set

2b. up qualifications from assessors over twenty-five thousand.

26. This particular bill sets up qualifications for under twenty-

27. five thousand and requires that...the assessor pass, before

28. the expiration of his first year in office, a basic course

29. in property assessment principles and practices approved

30. by the Department of Local Gove> ntal Affairs. Be happy

3l. to answer any questions or,if not, that's what the bill is

32. al1 about.


1.

2.

k 223

t. Is there discussion? The question is shall House Bill

2 . 214 8 pass . Those in f avor vote Aye . Those opposed vote Nay .3 ' i is open . Have a1l those voted who wish? Have a11The vot ng

4 * those voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the

5 * A es are 52 , the Nays are 3. House Bill 214 8 , having receivedy

6 * the constituEional majority is declared passed . House Bill

7 '* 2159 , Senator Sangmeister . Read the bill, Mr . Secretary . .

8 * SEC RETARY :

9 . House Bill 2159 .

10 . (secretary reads title of bill)

11 . 3rd reading of the bill .

12 . PRESI DING OFFICER : ( SENATOR DONNEWALD) '

!l3. Senator Sangmeister.

l4. SENATOR SANGMEISTER:

l5. Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. This

l6. is very simply, this applies only to the Waukegan and Joliet,

l7. in fact it only applies to Joliet. Under this Act they want 1i:

l8. to and have already negotiated the purchase, in fact, they

l9. bought it, a building and theylre a little skeptical about

20. what they've done because it is an office building, which also !

2l. has the Royalto Theatre in it and if we put this language into

22. the bill it will validate their sale. So it applies only

23. to Joliet. Would ask for a favorable vote. !i ;: 24. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD) i1. 2s. Is there discussion? The question is shall House Bill

26. 2159 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The1: 27. voting is open. Have al1 those voted who wish? Have al1 those Il

28. voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes i:i

29. are 52, the Nays are 1, l Voting Present. House Bill 2159it

having received the constitutional majority is declared passed. 230.

31. 2160, Senator D'Arco. Read Ehe bill, Mr. Secretary.

32. SECRETARY: Iaa. House Bill .2160. 1

. 134. (Secretary reads title of billj 1

224i


PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATGR DONNEWALD)

3. Senator D'Arco.

4. SENATOR D'ARCO:

5. Thank you, Mr. President. This amends the Chicago Police-

' i Fund to provide that if 'a policeman returns to6. men s Pens on

7 active duty after having been on duEy disability and he

a stays an active policeman for two years and then again returns

: to duty disability as a result of an injury from the same

lc cause that caused the initial injury, his rate of pay will

11 commence at the period of time from the time that he is on

the second duty disability. If there are any questions Il2.

would be happy to answer them.13.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)l4.

Is there discussion? Senator Berning.l5.

SENATOR BERNING:l6.

Yes, I rise injsupport of this bill. There's a very, veryl7.

nominal cost involved and it is good legislation.18.


Is there further discussion? The question is shall House20.

Bill 2160 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay.2l.

The voting is open. Have a11 those voted who wish? Have a1122.' those voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the

Ayes are the Nays are none. House Bill 2160, having24.

received the constitutional majority is declared passed.2b.

House Bill 2161, Senator Nash. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.26.

SECRETARY:27.

House Bi'l1 2161.28.

(Secretary reads title of bill)29.

3rd reading of the bill.30.


Senator Nash.32.SENATOR NASH:

225

Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. House

2. Bill 2161 amends the Pharmacy Practice Act. Under this bill the

board.- the State Board of Pharmacy will be empowering, in addition

4. to revoking their license, to suspend their delay implemenation

5. of judgment and to place the license on probation. Presently

6. the only disciplinary action that can take...against a pharmacist

7. is revocation. This bill is supported by the Department of

8. Registration and Education and the Pharmaceutical Association.

9. urge a Yes vote.

lo. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

1l. Is there...is there discussion? The question is shall

12. House Bill 2161 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed

Nay. The voting is opèn. Have al1 those voted who wish? Have

l4. al1 those Voted who wish? Take the record. On that question

l5. the Ayes are 55, the Nays are none. House Bill 2161 having

16. received a constitutional majority is declared passed. House17 Bill 2167, Senator McLendon. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

18 SECRETARY:

z9 House Bill 2167.


21 3rd reading of the bill.'


Senator McLendon.23.

SENATOR MCLENDON :

Thank you, Mr. President. This bill amends the Fair

Employment Act to authorize the hearing officer to order26.

reinstatement or...or hiring back pay for a period of not27.

more than two years prior to the filing of the charge,28.

cost and reasonable attorney's fees.29.


Is there discussion? Senator Gro tberg.3l.


Well, thank you, Mr. President. The part of the bill that33.

226

the sponsor just explained has been out of the Senate. It's

over in the House and well on its way to the Governor. The

). facts are this is now a bill that's completely changed from

4. it's original intent. It. - contains our old faithful Senate

5. Amendment No. 1, that adds the language that the...when you

6. ...buy or sell a business in the State of Illinois, that you

buy and sell the union coniract that goes with it and a1l

8 of the conditions, collective bargàining conditions, that

9 go with it. We defeated that soundly here in the Senate.

lc It has a child care leave adaptation to it and under the

l basic part of that's far ou* of perspective with the1 .

original intent of the bill, which makes . . .was to conform

with the Federal Pregnanc.y Law . The Child Care provision isl 3 .

not in the Federal Law and under this bil l when a woman14 .

returns to work af ter her maternity leave and she ' s to bel 5 .

qiven back her same job within the two weeks application ,l 6 .but when a worker returns f rom a child care leave , he or17

.

she is to l:e given the f irst available position for which she ' sl 8 .

required , he or she . This provision would violate seniorityl 9 .

rights to pronrtion clauses that are in many collective2 () .

bargaining agreements . Then you add the fact that you got2 l .

a chance to buy and sell people here instead of businesses

adds a little cloud to this bill. I would urge a resounding

defeak .24. .


Senator Berning.26.

SENATOR BERNING:27.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Fresident. rise also in opposition28.

to this bill. It goes much further khan what originally meets29.

the eye. I might want...l would like to point out that when30.

a person leaves on a child care leave and wants to return to3l.

work, that person must be given the first available position32.

for which the individual mighk qualify while retaininq al1

(.)' ..- ..l'.-l - :.#%' ! N l ''è *: '' , .:..% % %u (

L )e' 1/ W ' @ 't 2% ? .e -

/*Z ' Aw n ç.:v%J rJ >(tp

seniority rights. It seems to me that we are going a little

2 too far here and that we ought to be considerate of, not

only the employee, but the employer. This is a bad bill3.

and ought to be defeated.4.

PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR DONNEWALD)5.

Senator Nimrod.6.

SENATOR NIMROD:7.

Yes, thank youy Mr. President. Senator McLendon, I8.

want to remind you that as Senator Grotberg has indicated,9.

Senate . Bill l386...Senator Washington, I agreed to takel0.

care of the main provisions of this' bill, which...which itll.

was intended. But I think what's more important that thel2.

amendments that have been added on to this are directlyl3. .

in contridiction to the Supreme Court Justice White'sl4.

rulings. And I think that's something that ought to bel5.

taken consideration this particular point and I also16.

remind you that the AFSCME present agreement and AFSCME17. .

contract, collective bargaining contract here in the State,18. .

that this would be in conflict with that. So I think therel9.

are some serious problems with this and I would certainly20.

say that the provisions of your bill, which we a11 agree with,

are already taken care of in another bill in agreement with

Senator WashingEon and I would think that this bill is totally23.

unnecessary.24.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)25. .

Is there further discussion? Senator McLendon may close.26.

SENATOR MCLENDON:27.

have nothing further to addy...senator Savickas, did28.

you want to speak on.- he said no, 1111 ask for a roll call at29.

this time, have nothing further.30.


The question is shall House Bill 2167 pass. Those32.

favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open.33.34. Have a11 those voted' who wish? Have a11 those voted who wish?

228

1 xtl

hA . .tXcpp': %e

Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 33, the Nays

2. are 22. House Bill 2167, having received the constitutional

3. majority is declared passed. House Bill 2168, Senator Daley.

4. Read the bill, Secretary.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

16.

End of Reel #6l8.

22.

23.

24.

2b.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3ï.

32.

33.

229

Reel #7

1. SECRETARY:

2. House Bill 2168.

3. (secretary reads title of bill)



6. Senator Daley.

7. SENATOR DALEY:

8. Mr. President and fellow Senators, this changes the...clarifies

9 the effective date, states that any product which is...which was

lc in or entered the stream of comnerce on or after January 1979,

11 clarifies some language. I'd ask for a favorable roll call.

z2 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Is there discussion? Question is, shall House Bill 2168 pass.

Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open.14.

Have al1 those voted who wish? Have al1 those voted who wish?l5.

Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 53. The Nays arel6.

2. House Bill 2168, having received the constitutional majority,l7.

is declared passed. House Bill 2175, Senator Netsch-Newhouse.l8. .

Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.l9.

SECRETARY:20.

House Bill 2175*21.




Senator Netsch.2$.

SENATOR NETSCH:26.

Thank you, Mr. President. As amended this bill would authorize27.

the secretary of State, not require, but authorize the Secretary of28.

State to make available copies of Ehe United States and Illinois29.

Constitutions in Spanish, Polish, Italian, German and Greek, which30.

as I understand it, are the same languages in which the Rules of3l.

the Road are also made available. It also includes the language which32.

Senator Nimrod had requested that the bilingual editions will be ar-33.

230

ranged so that there is a comparison of the English and the foreign

2. language version.

3 PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

4 Is there discussion? Senator Philip.

5 SENATOR PHILIP:

Question 9f the sponsor.6.


Indicates she will respond.8.

SENATOR PHILIP:9.

Have any idea on the cost?10.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)ll.

Senator Netsch.l2.

SENATOR NETSCH:l3.

Eventually the cost would be nothing because they are to be14.

sold. The fiscal note on the bill indicated that in order to gear

up for it, there would have to be some money available and I believe16.

the amount is forty-eight thousand five hundred dollars to print

the initial stock. That would be recovered because the...it is clear18.

that there is to be a charge for these Constitutions eventually.19.


Senator Philip.2l.

SENATOR PHILIP:22.


I suppose if they don't sell any copies, Senator Netsch, we're24.

going to be stuck with X amount of copies. might say this, you're25.

one of the big proponents of ERA and always flagging the right...26.

the flag for equal rights, etc. What about the other nationalities

that you've left out. The Bohemians, the East Indians, the American28.

Indians, Hebrew, etc. Shame, shamer shame on you, Senator Netsch.29.


Is there further discussion? Senator Geo-Karis.3l.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS: .32.

Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate, I might33.

231

concur with Senator Philip, but I think the need is there. I'd rather

2 they understand the Rules of the Road in their own native tongue and,

) obviously, those are the groups that are the greater majority in the

4 State and rather they know what the rules are so they don't go

hitting us at the wrong time and I speak in favor of the bill. have

an apparent conflict of interest since it includes Greek.6.


Is there further discussion? Senator Netsch may close.8. .

SENATOR NETSCH:

T did provide an opportunity, Senator Philip, for anyone to10.

file an amendment with respect to any other language and a11 of thosell.

that were requested were included in the bill. It wasn't started...l2.

the bill was started as a simple lesson in Americanism. There are13.

people who do not...who are not fully fluent in English as yet andl4.

they ought to have an opportunity to know and understand our Statel5.

Constitution as well as our Federal Constitution.l6.

PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

All right. The.question is, shall House Bill 2175 pass.l8.

Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open.l9.

Have a11 those voted who wish? Have al1 those voted who wish?20.

Have al1 those voted who wish? Take the record. On that question2l.

the Ayes are 25. The Nays are 2l. l Voting Present. House Bill22.

2175, not having received a constitutional majority, is declared23.

lost. House Bill 2179, Senator Weaver. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.24.

SECRETARY:25.

House Bill 2179.26.

(Secretary reads title of bi11)27.



Senator Weaver.30.

SENATOR WEAVER:31.

Thank you, Mr. President. House Bill 2179 addresses itself to32.

non-home rule cities. It would allow them to levy taxes for water33.

232

and sewage which were not considered into their maximum corporate

2 rate which is twenty-five cents. They would be able to levy above

) that rate by 0....or .01666. If there's any questioM , be happy to

4 try to answer them.


Is there discussion? Question is, shall House Bill 2179 pass.6.


Have a11 those voted who wish? Have a1l those voted who wish?8.

Have al1 those voted who wish? Take the record. On that question

khe Ayes are 27. The Nays are l5. 2 Voting Present. House Billl0.

2179, not having received the constitutional majority, is declaredll.

lost. House Bill 2184, Senator Graham. Read the bill, Mr.l2.

Secretary.l3.

SECRETARY :l4.

House Bill 2184.l5.


3rd reading of the bill.


Senator Graham.l9.

SENATOR GRAHAM :20.

This is a little old harmless bill, comes about as the result2l.

of the William Rainey Harper College overextending what they thought22.

the' population might be in two or three years. They went out and23.

bought some land and now they want to sell the land and use the24.

money for operating funds and we were going along pretty good

until we ran into Senator Davidson and Senator Bruce. Senator26.

Davidson put on an amendment which he will be glad to explain and

Senator Bruce can do any kind of explanation he wants to. think2a.

maybe if the bill is amended, get it out of here, mighk go to29.

conference committee. I have been told the House sponsor will not30.

accept the Senate Amendments, so if you want to ask any questions31.

about the amendment that Senator Davidson put on I yield to the32.

gentleman from Springfield.33.

233


2. Senator Bruce.

). SENATOR BRUCE:

4 Thank you, Mr. President. I stand in support of this bill.

Senator Graham has certainly beat us about the head and body and

6 said he didn't want the amendment and we a11 know that Representative

Chapman didn't want it and he's been a valiant and strong warrior for her7.

and tried to get this bill just the way she wanted it. He appeared8.

twice before the Higher Education Committee and they promised this

is...Representative Chapman would be there three of four time andl0.

he was good on his promise and we were good on our promise to getll.

this out and put the amendment on that we a1l agreed to exceptl2.

Senator Graham and this bill is in such grand shape' thak I think it oughtl3.

to go out of here with a unanimous roll call.


Senator Davidson.l6.

SENATOR DAVIDSON:

I agree. The amendments were to protect the taxpayer. If you're18.

going to sell that property, pay off the bonded indebtness and reduce19.

the tax levy. That's all it does. I ask a Yes vote.20.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)2l.

Is there further discussion? Question shall House Bill 218422.

pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is23.

open. Have a11 those voted who wish? Have a1l those voted who wish?24.

Take the record. On that question the Ayes are The Nays are

House Bill 2184, having received the constitutional majority,26.

declared passed. House Bill 2185, Senator Mcldillan-Hall. Senator

McMillan. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.28.

SECRETARY:29.

. Hous'e Bill 2185.

30.(Secretary reads title of bill)

31.3rd reading of the bill.

32.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

33.

234

Senator McAlillan.

2 SENATOR MCMILLAN:

Mr. President, members of the Senate, the purpose of House Bill3.

is to strengthen substantially the State's ability to collect4.

linois Income Tax thatls due from non-residents. This is a that's5.

been worked on for nearly a year. It's had input from a large number6.

of people that were quite concerned by legislation passed a couple7.

years ago that, I think, imposed some withholding requirements that are8.

unnecessary. This does now include provisions that would require9.

withholding for personal service income under contract, for largel0.

prizes and lottery winnings. Provides for an information return onll.

rents and royalties that are paid. There's already and...and readyl2.

to go when this passes a provision whereby the Illinois Department of13.

Agriculture will get from the S. Agricultural Stabilizationl4.

and Conservation Service detailed records that let us know whenl5.

farm land in Illinois is owned by a non-resident and the Real Estatel6.

Transfer Tax Act is amended to provide that any transfeç of property

from : non-resident, social security number, name and address andl8.

so forth will now go to the Department of Revenue. think it doesl9.

the job and does it well and I would seek a favorable roll call.20.


Senator Maragos.22.

SENATOR MARAGOS:23. .

Is there further discussion? Question is, shall House Bill24.

2185 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting25.

is open. Have a1l those voted who wish? Have all those voted who26.

vish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 53. The

Nays are 1. House Bill 2185, having received a constitutional majority,28. .

declared passed. 2191, Senator D'Arco. Read the bill, Mr. Sec-29.

retary.30.

SECRETARY:31. :

House Bill 2191.32.


235



) Senator D'Arco.

4 SENATOR D'ARCO:

5 Thank you, Mr. President. What this does is change the mandatory

retirement age from 65 to aqe 70 in compliance with the Federal man-6.

date and I would ask for a favorable vote.7.


Is there discussion? Question is shall House Bill 2191 pass.9.

Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open.l0.

Have a11 those voted who wish? Have a1l those voted who wish? Take

the record. On that question, the Ayes are 54. The Nays are 2.l2.

House Bill 2191, having recieved a constitutional majority isl3.

declared passed. House Bill 2192, Senator Nedza. House Bill 2193,l4. .

senator Jeremiah Joyce. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.l5.

SECRETARY:l6.

House Bill 2193.


3rd readim of the the bill.


Senator Jeremiah Joyce.2l.


Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. House Bill23.

2193 will allow the Chicago Park District to deal with the impoundment24.

of vessels in violation of Park District regulation, Also permit25.

the Park district to regulate and to license the chartering of vessels26.

in waters within the Park District and finally to rent space for the27.

storage of them vehicles. Park district presently enjoys this power28.

under ordinance. I move your favorable consideration at this time.29.


Is there discussion? Senator Rhoads.31.

SENATOR RHOADS:32.

Senator Joyce, if they have it now under ordinance, why is the33.

236

bill needed?

2. PRESIDING OEFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Senator Jeremiah Joyce. Is there further discussion? Senator

4 Martin.

5 SENATOR MARTIN:

6 Senator Joyce, arenlt there some real questions about how the

Park District does allow leasing of their space? Isn't that been

kind of constant in Chicago that...sort of you had to know somebody8.

to get the space? Why would we want to start this into 1aw if it9.

is available in ordinance about...a #racticœ and I1m sure theydvel0.

stopped under Superintendent Kelly and a11 that, but there have been- .ll.I can remember back years and still up to years that that's always

l2.been a rather questionable operation, Belmont Harbor and stuff like

l3.that.

l4.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

l5.Senator Jeremiah Joyce.

l6.SENATOR JEREMIAH JOYCE:

17.I assume your question was rhetorical?


l9.Senator Savickas.

20.SENATOR SAVICKAS:

Mr. Presidentz members of the Senate, the assignment of slips

in the harbors are by lottery only. They are not assigned off the

top of the head and the impoundment procedure is needed because

there are many boats tha: are lefE there or people move their boats25.

into- -slots that are assigned to other boats and the Park District26.

just wants the Statutory authority whep they Eow these boats to a..27.

place to store them and charge the fee for them and impound the vessels28.

to remove them from these slips that they illegally occupy. There's29.

nothing wrong with it. They just wanted to make sure that when they30.

impound these boats that they are doing it legally and statutorily.3l.

That's what this bill is al1 about.32.


237

Is there further discussion? Question is shall House Bill 2193

2 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is

) open. Have a1l those voted who wish? Have those voted who wish?

Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 50. The Nays are none.4.

2 Voting Present. House Bill 2193, having received the constitutional

majority is declared passed. 2l94...2200,Senator Schaffer. Read the6.

bill, Mr. Secretary.7.

SECRETARY:8.

House Bill 2200.

(Secretary reads title of bill)l0.

3rd reading of the bill.ll.


Senator Schaffer.l3.

SENATOR SCHAFFER:l4.

Mr. President, members of the Senate, this is kind of a unique

concept. I did pass our a hand-out sheet. This would provide forl6.

the creation of a non-game check-off on the Income Tax forms. At

'no expense to the taxpayers- .the check-off would come from the18.

Income Tax returns. People, instead of getting the money back thatl9. .

they have over-paid could at their option request to keep that money20.

or put that money in a special fund in the Department of Conservation2l.

to promote non-game animals. Non-game animals are simple those22. .

animals that are not hunted, fished or otherwise targets in the State.23.

There's a tremendous need, really, in the State for this. This bill24.

is supported by numerous conservakion, environmental qroups. It25.

is, I think, a very good bill. I'd be happy to answer any questions26.

and appreciate your support.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)28. .

Senator Rhoads.29.

SENATOR RHOADS:30.

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. rise3l.

in support of this bill after having opposed it in committee and32.

frankly chapged my mind after doing a little homework on what the33. '

238

1. experience was in the State of Colorado. think it has worked

2 well there and I would urge a favorable vote.

) PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

4 Senator Vadalabene. Senator Vadalabene.


Yes, I would like to ask Senator Schaffer a question, please.6.


Indicates he will respond.8.


As a sportsman and a membership in one of the big sportsmenl0.

clubs in the State of Illinois, now would this money be used toll.

handicap some of the hunters...through the environmental groups?l2. '

Will they be given money now to restrict these people from huntingl3.

in some of these areas?l4.


Senator Schaffer.16.

SENATOR SCHAFFER:l7.

No. In fact, it would be used just to promote non-game animals.l8.

In Colorado, as Senator Rhoads just mentioned, one of the biggestl9.

groups of people supporting this on their Income Tax form are, in20.

fact, the hunters. The sad fact is that here in Illinois we only21.

spend about thirty khousand dollars a year that can be identified in22.

the...any budget to suppcrt animals that we don't intent to blow up,23.

slaughter, shoot, hook, etc. We're talking about song birds and24.

eagles and that type of thinq that there's no profit in slaughtering25.

and I think itls a good bill.26.


Is there further discussion? Senator Savickas.28. '

SENATOR SAVICKAS:29.

Yes, how many check-offs do we have now on the Income Tax form?30.




239

Senator Savickas, right now...well, this is a sort of tail-end

check-off because it's on the return. This would be the first. It2.

is workable. I have talked to the Department of Revenue. They3.

aren't happy about it. It's done in five western States. There are4.

four other statœ implementing it, including New Jersey, by the way.


Senator Savickas.7.

SENATOR SAVICKAS:8.

Well, just seem.vthis is the first of a cheèk-off system.9.

Next year wedll come in with check-off for some other project. Nextl0.

year a check-off for another. I think it's a good concept, a goodll.

idea, but I think it should be done by donations and not on the Incomel2.

Tax form and open the door for it.l3.


Is there further discussion? Senator Philip. Senator Philip.l5.

SENATOR PHILIP:l6.


Would you yield for a question?l8.


Indicates he will.20.

SENATOR PHILIF:2l.

I1d like ko have the definition of promoting. You're talking22.

about building wildlife refuges, bird houses, feedinq them or are23.

you talking about advertising or promoting, etc. would like to24.

know...l tend to be for what you want to do if...if you're going to2b.

do something to help them.26. '




Senator Bloom suggests it's similar to the Flat Dog Act. 11m30.

not quite sure what...how he draws that analogy. It would be used3l.

to promote the habitat for these type of animals. Be used to protect a32. .

rare and endangered species. It would be used for public information33.

240

programs. Be used for research and inventories of this type of

1. animal to proteet and promote them. The Lnd is in the Department

of Conservation, by the way. Tt would be done by that Department.

3. PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Senator Davidson.

5 SENATOR DAVIDSON:

6 like to speak in support of this bill. This will give

those people who regularly call up 1, who as a hunter whose money has7.

bought most of the wildlife refuge, al1 the State parks and a good8.many other thinqs who they want to give h-e double l because have

9.the audacity to want to hunt a bird, this will give a11 those people

l0.an opportunity èo put their money where their mouth is by checking

ll.off that they don't want one, two or five or ten dcllars of their

12.Income Tax refunded to them and go to a good purpose. This is a good

l3.bill. I urge you a11 to voEe for

l4.PRESIDING OPPICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

l5.Senator...lerome Joyce.

l6.SENATOR JEROME JOYCE:

Yes, Mr. President, thank you. Would the sponsor yield?18.


Indicates he will.20.

SENATOR JEROME JOYCE:21.

Who gets the money?22.




The money is put in a special fund in the Department of Conser-26.

vation to promote non-game animals.27.


Senator Joyce.29.

SENATOR JEROME JOYCE :30.

Who decides...you know, who decided where the money goes? What3l.

group does this or is a group and...32.


Senator Schaffer.

24l

SENATOR SCHAFFER:

2 In other state...it would be the Department. In other states

committees have been formed by the Department to advise the Depart-

ment on the expenditures of these type of funds and I would suspect4. .

that similar procedure would prevail here Illinois or obviously,5.

no one would be willing to check off the money unless the programs

had public support.


Senator Joyce.

SENATOR JERUICX JOYCE:l0.

Well, then this money would go to the Department of Conservationll.

and what-- do they have.- are they in favor of this? They have saidl2.

they have a special fund set up and they are going to decide what needsl3.

to be put where- .whether youdre going to put muskrats the creeks14.

or whatevbr?l5. . .


Senator Schaffer.

SENATOR SCHAFFER :l8.

Well first of all, I don't want to be categorized as putting

muskrats in creeks. I'm too smart for that. I dondt...l honestly...

know that they are in support of it. I don't know what their21.

public posture is.22.


Senator Joyce, your time has expired. Senator McMillan.24.

SENATOR MCMILLAN :2b.

Mr. President and members of the Senate. reluctantly rise...26.

to differ with many of my colleagues on this side of the aisle, but27.

really think however well intended this may be, it's simply a bad28.

idea. It's a bad thing to try to do with the Income Tax forms and29.

Income Tax system that we have. think an exception to a lot30.

of the things that we courageously try to fight off day after day and3l. .

if we agree to this then we're going to be faced with everybody's32.

pet means of getting money outside of the normal appropriations chan-33.

242

nels and I think it is not good government and it's not wise for

1. our revenue system and I would ask for a No vote .


3. senator Egan.

4. SENATOR EGAN:

5. Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. I certainly

6. am not opposed to the concept of protecting non-game wildlife. I

7. think it's a great idea. Howver, to the check-off system...is...

8 really out of the question. Why can't the Department have a line

: item budget for this purpose just like everything else that they do?

lo Thatds...the proper approach. Unfortunately, this bill was not so

designed and consequently, I'm opposed.ll.


Senator Grotberg.l3.


I stand in support of this bill because when you think of thel5.

millions of dollars we spend on the up-land game and all of the gamel6.

that we hunt and fish in the State of Illinois and the clubs andl7.

sportsmen feel that they kind of have a special lock on the Depart-l8. .

ment of Conservation for that purpose, this gives those unspokenl9.

millions of birdwatchers...if we can save the robin and the cardinal20.

by voluntary...these are voluntary donations to Ehe State of Illinois.2l.

I think it's a marvelous new idea and once in a while we should have22.

some new ideas around here that do good for innocent animals and23.

birds and for well-meaning people to help off-set some of us who24.

prefer to hunt. Frankly, I like to hunt and I like to listen to song2b.

. birds both- .good bill.26. .


Senator Mitchler.28.


Mr. President and members of the Senate, I think we ought to30.

. know approximately how much money this is going to put into the3l.

Departmee of Conservation for them to play with over there and we32.

should also know just what type of a program they would have. Now,33.

if this were a line item budget and they were coming in front of the

243

1. big four, Senator Hall, they would have to explain how they were

2. going to do it, what they were going to do. They'd have some

3. questions and answers, but youdre really buying another pig in a poke if

4 youdre going to protect that animal...maybe with it there, Senator

5 Carroll, and I don't know if that's an endangered species or what,

6 but...you know the concept of using State Income Tax for a check-

off lisk for anything...maybe the Cancer Fund, maybe the Heart

Association- .all of these things would have a goof moral and8.

substantial reason for going for but to interfere with the9.

Income Tax, that's the bad part of it.l0.


Seems to me welre spending an awful 1ot of time on this bill.12.

Senator Maragos.l3.

SENATOR MARAGOS:l4.

Mr. President, members of the Senake. I rise in support ofl5.

this bill for one good reason. The young lady who testified at ourl6.

committee, she was heartbroken...a little teenager, and T committedl7.

myself to her...she thought she had lost the bill...that I would votel8.

for it and I think it's a novel idea for my young people and I willl9.

support this measure.20.

PRESIDING OEFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)21.

Senator Knuppel.22.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:23.

Let's quit playing games. This is non-game.24.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)25.

A11 right. The...senator Schaffer...senator Mitchler, for26.

the second time?27.


Well, to counteract Senator Maragos, when took the belly dancer29.

home last night she told me this was a bad bill.3Q.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)3l.

Senator Schaffer may close if he wishes.32. .

SENATOR SCHAPFER:33.

Yes, I think I'd better. Mr. President, members of the Senate,

this is a novel idea. Here are a group of peole asking us to give

2. them the privilege of giving us money to create a.- to promote a

) very worthwile objective. Instead of coming down here, Senator

4 Egan, and trying to raid the till, they are willing to come up with

5 their own dollars to do it. Senator Savickas and SenaEor McMillan,

since Colorago adopted this in 1977, they haven't even had a request6.

for any other check-off. This isn't necessarily opening the flood7.

gates. They haven't got one other thing on their Income Tax form.8.

Itls a good idea. It's a novel idea. I don't see why anyone would9.

wish to oppose it. I'd appreciate a favorable roll call.l0.

PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)1l.

Question is, shall House Bill 2200 pass. Those in favor votel2. .

Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open...A1l those voted whol3.

wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 42. The Naysl4.

are lQ. House Bill 2200, having received a constitutional majority,l5.

is declared passed. We are going to...we are going to skip appropria-l6.

tion bills this evening and start with those the first thing in the

porning, a11 of them. House Bill 2204, Senator Gitz. Read the bill,l8.

Mr. Secretary.l9.

SECRETARY:20.

House Bill 2204.2l.




Senator Gitz.25.

SENATOR GTTZ:26.

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. House Bill27.

2204 provides a way for local districts to carry out special education28.

remodeling constuction. Nowy many of you amy be familiar with the29.

fact that right now we used to have a Statutory requirement that we30.

provided reimbursement and a thousand dollars per professional worker.3l.

If you can tell me how that relates to construction, then you are far32.

wiser than I because it has no correlation basically. For the lasE three33.

years, this formula has not been funded. Many local districts who were

*2 4 5

1. authorized to have an eight year levy for taxes...they didn't have

2. the maEching funds. An example is Kankakee and Speaker Ryan's district.

). They levied their local maEch. They didn't get the State money and

4. consequently, they had fifty severely handicapped students that they

5. are trying to educate in a church. This provides a way through the

6. Grant Index, very similar to school construction-grants-z It Aakes the

7 existing debt service, a ten million dollar levy. IE has no increase

g ih bond funds and allows this Eo be utilized for special education

construction and matching funds.9.


Is there discussion? Senator Bloom.1l.

SENATOR BLOOM:l2.

Would you read me the language in this bill, Senator, thatl3.

refers to referenda, whether it's front end or back door?l4.


Senator Gitz.l6.

SENATOR GITZ:

There is no referendum unless you are talking about the locall8.

levies which have nothing to do with the bill. We donlt alter that.l9.


Senator Bloom.2l.

SENATOR BLOOM:22.

. ..It does authorize the districts to levy a tax and issue bonds23.

for these projects and I think three years ago we took this off and24.

said that special tax would go...correct me if I'm wrong.25.


Senator Gitz.27.

SENATOR GITZ:28.

Senator Bloom, that's existing lanquage. That's not changed by29.

the bill at all. We're talking about how the State provides it's30.

portion and the fact is, they haven't provided the pcrtion. You're31.' looking at existing language.32.


246

Senator...is there further discussion? Question is, shall

House Bill 2204 pass. Those in favor vote Aye . Those opposed Nay.3. The voting is open

. Have a11 those voted who wish? Have all those

4* voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are

5. 43. The Nays are 4. 3 Voting Present. House Bill 2204, having

6. received a constituEional majority is declared passed. House Bill

7. 2206, Senator Maitland. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

8. SECRETARY:

9. House Bill 2206.




l3. Senator Maitland.

l4. SENATOR MAITLAND:

ls. Thank you, Mr. President ànd Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

16. House Bill 2206 increases the fees for certification in three different

l7. areas. First of all, for the initial fee, presently it's ten dollars.

la. It increases that to Ewenty dollars. The renewal fee, currently two

dollars will be increased to four dollars. A duplicate fee also will

2o. be increased from two dollars to four dollars.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Is there discussion? Question is, shall House Bill 2206 pass.

Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open.

24 Have al1 those voted who wish? Have a11 those voted who wish? Take

25 the record. On that question the Ayes are 48. The Nays are 6. House

a6 Bill 2206, having received the constitutional majority is declared7 passed . House Bill 2209 # Senator Berman . Read the bill, Mr . Secretary .2 .

28 . SECRETARY :

29 House Bill 2 2 0 9 .

ac (secretary reads title of bill)



Senator Berman.33.

247

1. SENATOR BERMAN:


). House Bill 2209 is a bill that's a companion to a line item that is

4 the Categorical Aid Bill with an appropriation of a half a million

5 dollars. This is a that seeks to set forth the guidelines for

voluntary transfer of students between school districts for the6.

purpose of promoting cultural and racial integration. The bill would

require approval by the parents of the child, the sending district8.

and the receiving district. It's a small step towards trying to give9.

the school districts and the parents the opportunity to respond to the10.

many, many regulatioM and pressures that are upon these school districts

concerning the integration and the problems that we face when we're...l2.

when school districts are faced with pressures from the Federal13.

government and the State government concerning integration. It isl4.

totally voluntary. is a program that we hope will be given al5.

chance to work and see whether we can encourage racial and culturall6.

integration between school districts, urge your affirmative vote.l7. 9

FRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)l8.

senator M'artin.l9.

SENATOR AG RTIN:20. .

Senator Berman, certainly the purpose is laudable, but I asked2l.

the question of the Appropriations Committee concerning that line22.

item and the superintendent indicated that no district outside the23.

city had really moved to do or to show real interest. They had taken24.

some people to Milwaukee. They had done a few other things,25.

but their...l have to ask the awful question. Do you really think26.

that other districts are-..the outside collar districts are going27.

to respond to this? guess I1m saying I hate to pass legislation28. .

that sounds like you are trying to do something and it turns out that.29. .

the reality is very different.30.


Senator Berningw.-Berman.32.

SENATOR BERMAN:

248

Thank you. Yes, I think that this...that this bill is meaning-

2. Now, first of all, it's meaningful because we are not imposing

). any penalty on the sending district. IE is also attractive to a num-

4. ber of districts because they are going to be receiving extra money

5. for accepting on a voluntary basis children from...as a receiving

6. district. Now, there are many districts that are losing pupils that

7 are being faced with a problem of cutting back in programs, firing

g teachers, closing schools. This is a method by which they can

increase their enrollment, get extra money and maintain those pro-9.

grams. When they have to cut back on programs, everybody in their10.

school district suffers. It's a very terrible experience for thell.

school district Eo vote for these closings, for the children thatl2.

are involved in the reshuffling of the programs. This is a voluntary13.

program to encourage...again, I can't underline too heavily thel4. ,

word voluntary with a small financial incentive. think there arel5.

districe that will accept these children and will be able to put itl6.

to good use.l7.


Senator Martin...senator Martin, your time is up. Senator Collins.

SENATOR COLLINS:

Question of the sponsor. Okay. Senator Berning...Berman, Iîm

sorvy. Will the sending district also receive its normal reimbursment

for that student?23.


Senator Berman.25.

SENATOR BERMAN:26.

Yes.27.


Senator Collins.29.

SENATOR COLLINS:

Okay. So the additional...how much money you say?


Senator Berman.33.

249

1. SENATOR BERMAN:

2. There's a line item for half a million dollars to...and the way

this is worked is that the receiving district receives a...okay.


5. Senator Collins can use her time.

6. SENATOR COLLINS:

7 Yeah...whatw..one half million dollars going to do? What are

a are you soing to be paying for...car fare or what?


Senator Berman.l0.

SENATOR BEM GN:1l.

No, this is a grant to the receiving district as on a...forl2.

taking this child.l3.


Senator Collins.

SENATOR COLLINS:l6.

Well, you know I really have to kind of go along with Senator

Martin over there. I canlt see that's enough money to really do18.

that much in terms of having any real impact on integration unlessl9.

you're talking eout a demonstration project, a piloE project. don't20.

see that as being enough money to do anything with any impact.2l.


Senator Collins, your time has expired. Senator Davidson.23.

SENATOR DAVIDSON:24.

Senator Berman, how many students will be affected with this25.

half a million dollars?26.


Senator Berman.28.

SENATOR BERMAN:29.

I believe the figure is about two hundred and fifty students so30.

it's really a...it is in effect a pilot project with the limited31.

amount of money that we're talking about.32.


250

Senator Davidson.

2. SENATOR DAVIDSON:

And itîs a voluntary basis by the parent or Ehe. . .whoever is

4 the guardian of the child. If there's more than two hundred and fifty

volunteer to do this who's going to choose which ones are going to

6 be able to participate?

7 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Senator Berman.8.

SENATOR BERMAN:9.

The State Board is authorized to appoint regional coordinatingl0.

councils for purposes of facilitating the implementa'tion of thisl1.

Act. They will try to work it out with this council and with thel2.

cooperation of the sending and receiving districts and the parents.13.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)l4

.

Senator Davidson.15.


I Voted Present in committee, but Iîm going to have a17. .

regional council decide who's going to get it, I urge you a11 tol8.

vote No.


Senator Berning.21.

SENATOR BERNING:22.

Thank you, Mr. President. Just 1et me recap with the sponsor23.

here. This voluntary on the part of the parent and the child.24. '

The State is going to pay the tuition at the receiving school. It25.

does run through June 30th, 1983, so conceivably the five hundred26.

thousand is going to be considerably more for the next four yearz27.

right?28.


Senator...Berman.30.

SENATOR BEWMAN:31.

Every year you will appropriate or not appropriate as the Legis-32.

lature seœ fit.! ) :j .

251


2. Senator Berning.

3. SENATOR BERNINGI

Mr. President, I really ought to vote for this legislation

because as I interpret it here we are taking the first small step

6. toward my voucher plan, but I think the sponsor of this bill

7 rejected the voluntary...involuntary voucher plan and I can't quite

understand his rationale here in now coming through with a baby8.

voucher plan.9.


Senator Walsh.1l.

SENATOR WALSH:l2.

Mr. President and members of the Senate, just briefly in13.opposition to this bill. We're talking about five hundred thousandl4

.

dollars for two hundred and fifty pupils. That's two thousand dollars

a pupil. I can see this program getting ko be one that we couldl6.

not afford under any circumstances. Furthermorez we'd be staffing

the sending district schools and increasing the staff of the18.

receiving district schools. Wedre paying more than twice just tol9.

accommodate some students traveling from one district to another.20.

would urge a No vote.2l.


Senator Kenneth Hall.23.

SENATOR HALL:24.

Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen o'f the Senate.2b.

rise in support of this. Do you realize that if this bill is26.

implemented it provides a mechanism to make effective use of

school districtsl facilities? It gives-- with this change in enroll-28.

ment pattern. This is a good bill. It should get all of the Aye29.

votes.30.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (JENATOR DONNEWALD)3l.

senator Savickas.32.


252

Yes, Mr. President. have a question of the sponsor.


Indicates helll respond.

4 SENATOR SAVICKAS:

5. This is a voluntary agreement between school' districts, not only

6 between the parents of students, but between school districts, isn't

it, Senator?


Senator Berman.9.

SENATOR BERMAN:l0.

Yes.1l.


Is there...senator Savickas.l3.

SENATOR SAVICKAS:l4.

Well, I would just like to comment on that. Since this is al5.

voluntary program and it is between the districts and their decision16.

whether to enter into it or not and their reimbursement is based onl7.

that decision, I would say that we should support this bill. I thinkl8.

it's a good bill and should be implemented, at least tested anyway.19.


Senatcr Berman may close.2l.

SENATOR BEWNG N :22.

Thank you, Mr. President. You know we sit here and we...many times

when we go home from the General Assembly, we see the headlines in the

paper about the Federal government coming down regarding integration25.

on the schocls, the State Board of Education pressuring the school26. . .

districts regarding integratiop about closing ofschools because of27.

lack of enrollment. This bill on a very small basis addresses each one28.

of those problems and it's a very small step with a small appropriation,29.

totally voluntary to address the needs of integrationz cultural en-30.

richment and the declining enrollments in many districts. see3l.

nothing wrong with this bill. Some people have waved red herrings to32.

try to get some opposition to it, but it is a small step along a very

important road. urge a very affirmative voke.

t.


Question shall House Bill 2209 pass. Those in favor vote

). Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open. Have all those voted

4. who wish? Have those voted who wish? Have a11 those voted who

5. wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 27. The Nays

6. are 25. Voting Present. House Bill 2209, not having received a

constitutional majority is declared.-senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:8.

Postponed.9.


Move to Pgstponed Consideration. Consideration will be postponed.ll.

House 2210, Senator Vadalabene. House Bill 2212. Senatorl2.

Lemke. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.13.

SECRETARY:11.

House Bill 2212.l5.

(Secretary reads tikle of bill)l6.

3rd reading of the bill.l7.


Senator Lemke.l9.

SENATOR LEMKE:20.

What this does is it provides that the purpose of- .calculating2l.

each districtls State aid four or more clock hours on school work22.

may be counted as a full day of attendance for handicapped children

below the age of six. I ask for a favorable vote. think it's a24.

very good bill for the handicapped children.25.


Ehere discussion? Question is, shall House Bill 2212 pass.27.


Have a11 those voted who wish? Have all thosp voted who wish? Take29.

the record. On that question the Ayes are 5l. The Nays are 1.30.

House Bill 2212, having received a constitutional majority, is3l.

declared pass. House Bill 2226, Senator Regner. House Bill 2228,32.

Senator Nedza. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

254

SECRETARY;

House Bill 2228.

). (secretary reads title of bill)

4 3rd reading of the bill.

s PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

6 Senator Nedza.

SENATOR NEDZA:7.

Thank you, Mr. President. This bill amends the Election Code8.

and Campaign Financing Act...provides that a candidate shall receive9.

the notice of obligations,manual of instruckions and report forms10.

at the time of his petitions are filed and shall receive through

the election official therefore. Provides that an agent of the12.

candidate filing petitions on behalf of khe candidate shall receive13. .

such notiee, manuale forms, etc., but the election official shalll4.

also send such notice, manual and forms to the candidate by certified15.

mail. Tt provides that a notice of obligation shall include al6.

statement that the manual of instructions and reporting forms are

available at the office the appropriate election official and18. '

it shall be sent by certified mail at least thirty days before each

reporting date. The purpose of the proposal or the purpose of this

legislation is to limit the number of times the State Board of

Eleckion or county clerks would be required to send a manual of22.

instructions and reporting forms to political committees. The2J.

enactment of this bill would save a great deal of money by reducing24.

'the number of manuals and forms printed and save the considerable25.

cost of repeated bulk certified mailings. This is a State Board of26.

Elections recommendation and is also endorsed by the Election Laws27.

Commission.28.


Senator Rhoads.30.

SENATOR RHOADES:3l.

Yes, Mr. President. I rise in support of House Bill 2228.32.

The first amendment is a technical amendment. It would aave33.

5.) u1'>

% x4Y b.7 ->.t) b

1. great deal of money and I urge your favorable roll call.


) Is there discussion? Question is shall House Bill 2228 pass.

4 Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voking is open.

Have a1l those voted who wish? Have al1 those voted who wish?5.

Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 57. The Nays are6.

none. House Bill 2228, having received the constitutional majority,7.

is declared passed. House Bill 2233, Senator Demuzio. Read the8.

bill, Mr. Secrekary.9.

SECRETARY:l0.

House Bill 2233.ll.




Senator Demuzio.l5.

SENATOR DEMUZIO :l6.

Well: khank youg Mr. President and members of the Senate. Housel7.

Bill 2233 does numerous things. It does...as the Calendar indicates18. .

provides that rules adopted by the school board shall be filed for19.

public inspection in the administrative office of the district. It20.

was also amended to indicate that the school district budget form2l.

should be prepared and provided by the Skate Board of Education and22.

at the request of the StaEe Board of Education the effective dake23.

was changed from 1981 to 1982. It was further amended also to provide24.

that it would allow a1l school employees upon request to have deducted25.

from their compensation payments and contributions to a labor or a26.

professional organization. I think that portion was substantially

debated not too long ago in this Body and I would move for adoption28.

of House Bill 2233.29.


Is there .discussion?.- senator Bloom. Senator Bloom.3l.

SENATOR BLOOM:32.

What concerns me about this is not so much probably what is the33.

256

more visible controversial thing, but the fact that it mandates

2. local school districts.- the IOE would...to use a certain specified

3 budget forms that would be set up by rule and regulation from the

4 Illinois Office of Education and the problem with this bill is that

5 you've stuffed- .you've stuffed too many bodies...too many turtles

inko it. So it makes it very hard for us to support othez turtles.6.

When you put good turtles and bad turtles in the same shell, you're7.

going to have some problems.8.


Senator DeAngelis.l0.

SENATOR DEANGELIS:1l.

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. Timel2.

after time we've heard that a lot of legislation is needed becausel3.

school boards and school administrators are not effective. Well, Il4.

would submit to you that if we continue to pile this kind of legisla-l5.

tion and other legislation on them that will become a self-fulfillingl6.

prophesy. The amendment put on by Senator Demuzio was defeated oncel7.

before. Now, we have a repeated aktempt to stick a bill that was beatl8.

here and try to pass it in a different way. I oppose this bill.l9.

PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)20.

Senator Maitland.2l.

SENATOR MATTLAND:22.


Senator DeAnqelis is right. This concept has been defeated on this24.

Floor before. 1...1 really think there's no place for khis in the2b.

educational system in Illinöis and additionally I want the Body to26.

know that with the original bill, although the intent seems admirable,27.

only about half of the school districts are presently on that kind of28.

a system and it would be very difficult to implement it, so, obviously,29.

this is an increase cost to local school districts and I urge opposition30.

to the bill.3l.

PRESIDING OFFICER:- (SENATOR DONNEWALD)32.


257

SENATOR SCHAFFER:

2 Well, speaking to the bill and not the amendment, one of the

) things that is virtually impossible to do in this State is to

4 compare one unit of government with another unit of qovernment. The

1970 Constitution, I think wisely, mandated uniform accounting5.

procedures between like units of government. That mandate, by the6.

way, has as the expression we are fond of using, slipped through the7.

cracks. I have a group of citizens who monitor school districts8.

and *ry and compare costs and they have been practically reduced Eo9.

insanity trying to compare school district A to school district B.l0.

They've all got little different forms, little different techniques1l.

and the end result is that the private citizen has no way to compare12.

his district to any other. think the concept of uniform accountingl3.

procedures as was the main thrust of the bill before the amendment isl4.

one we a1l ought to support. It's time the citizens can compare theirl5.

sciool district to another. Try and explain that to a school superin-l6.

tendent, you'll probably get punched in the nose. I


Senator Joyce...J. J.l9.

SENATOR JEROME JOYCE:20.

Yes, thank your Mr. President. This...the amendment to this2l.

bill was the bill that I had to begin with and I might point out to22.

Senator Maitland that we passed House Bill 903 which allowed a corn23.

check-off for farmers and I don't see so much difference between24.

doing that and doing this for...employees of a school board.2b.


Senator Walsh.

SENATOR WALSH:28.

Mr. President and members of the Senate. It appears that29.

of Senator Joyce's proposals get more than one chance. This...this30.

is one that Senator Demuzio apparently agrees with so we are going3l. .

to, with his blessing, give it another shot. I would remind the32.

membership that apparently we have defeated not just one bill, but33.

258

two that have been amended into this bill and unfortunately, Senator

2 Schaffer, we can't just address the bill. We must address the bill

as amended and because it does require...it mandates that school

districts withhold from compensation any dues that teachers owe to

an organiztion to which they belong, it would impose a duty by the

State on the local school board and as I indicated before,6.

Senator Knuppel's bill becomes law, welre going to have reimburse7.

that school district for the cost incurred. T think it's a bad8.

concept. The teacher and the organization to which he or she belongs

can work our their arrangement in any way they like, but there's10.

no reason to bring Ehe school district into any check-off procedure.ll.

urge a No vote.l2.


Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. This billl6.

does simply two things and for Senator Bloom who is worried about

turtlesy the first part of this bill is relatively simple, Senatorl8.

Bloom. It just says that if you make rules you have to post them19.

which seems to be a reasonable requirement and the second part of the20.

bill says that school boards, afker the teachers sign an authorization,

subject to his approval and a1l the other protections, can deduct dues22.

to organizations and so, thatfs what it does. don't see any...23.

third amendment, Senator, is what it does. The second amendment24.

was the effective dake and- .it only does those two things. One deals25.

with dues deduction and the deals with posting rules.26.


Senator Shapiro.28.

SENATOR SHAPIRO:29.

Well, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate,30.

just want...want to reiterate what so many speakers before me have3l.

said...thak this bill does mandate for any employee of a school district,32.

any contributioh to whatever organization they belong which could33. '

259

include political contributions to any organization to which they1.

belong. I think that's wrong and I think the bill should be defeated.2.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)3.

Senator Demuzio may close.4.

SENATOR DEMUZIO:5.

Well, thank you, Mr. President. want to point out tc6.

some of the members that have spoken .at least to the first part of7.

this bill that in terms of the budget accounting system on a State-wide8.

basis which is favored by the Illinois Office of Education, the9.

amendment was put on on the effective date for the prescribement ofl0.

the forms was put on at the Illinois Office of Education's requestll.

and up to that point in the bill, they support the bill. Thel2.

amendment that has been added is simply the one that we've heard

some...some things about today and that is allowing a...an employee

to , by request, have the school board simply deduct his dues to a

professional organization and I would ask for a favorable support.l6.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)I17

.Senator Bruce, for what purpose do you arise?

l8.SENATOR BRUCE :

l9.Well, just to apologize to the Body and correct the record.

20.The bill, fact, does three things. It does deal with program

2l.budgeting. I thought that amendments two and three were...were.e.one

22.of those was non-substantive, but, in fact, it does deal with

23.program budgeting. My apologies to Senator Bloom and to the mehber-

ship. There are just too many sheets of paper in the file.25.


A1l right. The question is shall House Bill 2233 pass. Those27.

in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open. Have28. .

a11 those voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the29.

Ayes are 35. The Nays are 20. 2 Voting Present. House Bill 2233,30. h

aving received the constitutional majority is declared passed.3l.

House Bill 2237, Senator Weaver. Read the bill, Secretary.32.

SECRETARY:

House Bill 2237.

260

1.

2.3rd reading of the bill.3

.

PRESIDING OFFICER:4.

Senator Weaver.5.

SENATOR WEAVER:6.


think makes some7.

sense inasmuch as many times we come in with requests to rebuild8.

and fire damage, etc. on the county fairs. A11 these requests would9.

be funneled through the Department of Agriculture. They'd makel0.

judgment by October the 1st, make recommendations to the General1l.

Assembly. We would appropriate the money. It allows for the

county...it mandates that the county fairs put up twenty-five percent

of the money and I think it's a reasonable approach to re-construction.14.

and new structures on county fairs for downstate particularly.l5.


Is there discussion? Senator Jerome Joyce.l7.

SENATOR JEROME JOYCE;l8. Yes, Mr. President. Thank you. support this wholly. I'ml9.

a joint sponsor with Senator Weaver. think that it will also20.

relieve a burden from us with everyone eoming here with their2l.

appropriatioN for their county fairs that they have to try and22. gek through and- .you know, if one does ik someone else has to do23. it and think this is the fair and just way to go about that so24.

I would urge an Aye vote.25.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)26. Is there further discussion? The question is shall House Bitl27. 2237...Senator Mitchler.2g. '

SENATOR MITCHLHR:29. Mr. President and members of the Senate. I'm in full support30. of this and this is for the downstate cpunty fairs, but you know you3l. got to treat the State...no, you got to treat the State Fair, which32. belongs to you just a much as the county fairs when they have to have33.

Thank you, Mr. President. House Bill

26l

their storm damage repaired and ice damage repaired and you turned that

2. down today for about a hundred and eight thousand dollars or a

). hundred and five thousand dollars. You let the buildings leak out

4 there and everything, but I'm still for this. believe in it and

I hope some day youfll help your own State Fair out here just like

6 you are helping the county fairs out.


Question is shall House Bill 2237 pass. Those in favor vote8. .

Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 those voted9.

who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 54.l0.

The Nays are none. House Bill 2237, having recieved the constitutionalll.

majority is passed. House Bill 2240, Senator Maragos. Read thel2.

bill, Mr. Secretary.l3.

SECRETARY:

House Bill 2240.




Senator Maragos.l9.

SENATOR MARAGOS:20.

Mr. President and members of the Senate. Senate Bill 224021.

reinstates the 1aw as it was before several years ago. It states22.

that any public agency that builds buildings and other bridges and23.

roads should use materials and steel and other products manufactured24.

in Illinois and give them preference. Therefore, ask for your

kind support. This is sponsored by the Economic Developmenk Commission26. ' '

as well as by other people throughout the State and many of the labor27.

groups as well. Senator Moore, who is the Chairman of that commission28.

will verify that it has the sponsorship of that commission.29.


Senator Moore.3l.

SENATOR MOORE :32. .

Thank you, Mr. President. As the bill is now amended it is33.

262

l acceptable and I would move support of House Bill 2240.


) Senator Grotberg.

SENATOR GROTBERG:4.

Just to remind the membership that to make this bill better

it is my amendment that says that we give preference to Illinois6.

suppliers when al1 else is equal and I think you can debake the7.

issue on the main bill, but if it goes I wanted this in there and8.

I think it's a good amendment to remember our Illinois manufacturers9.

of merchandise who oftentimes lose contracts for the same pricel0.

to out-of-state suppliers.ll.

PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)l2.

Senator Nimrod.

SENATOR NIMROD:l4.

Mr. President, think we're a1l reading the wrong bills.l5.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate, think if you look at the amend-l6.

menks on this bill what has happened is it's turned this bill whichl7. '

was originally conceived by the U. S. Steel to help them in thel8.

steel market, it was a good concept. Since then even U. S. Steell9.

is not in favor of this bill. I talked to their representatives20.

and what this is...this is a labor bill. Al1 it does is provides2l.

for every product to be bought to put into a building- .it's going22. .

to raise the cost of our buildings by at least fifteen percent. Tt's23.

going to provide for total inefficiency and I tried to put the24.

amendment on this when it was ak 2nd reading and I have a note and

letter here b0th from the original company that sponsored it out26.

of Senator Maragos' district and I know they have talked to him27.

about this. This is a bad concept that welve taken a qood bill28.

which could have helped us and buy American and what we have done29.

is destroyed it by making it a labor package. It's a bad concept.30.

It's going to cost us a 1ot of extra money for no reason at all and31.

I would say that we should defeat this bill so that we can come32.

back and we'll put it on Postponed Consideration so that we can33.

263

1. adopt the that will, in fact, do us some good and be of

2 credit to us. The dumping of the steel by the Japanese and from

) foreign countries is still going to continue even with this bill.

4 They are now dumping steel at fifteen percent over cosk and I

urge you to reconsider this and what youdre doing to this bill.


Senator, your time has expired. Senator Bruce.7.

SENATOR BRUCE:8.

Thank you, Mr. President and members of Ehe Senate. I don't9.

know whether I1m standing in opposition to this bill or not, butl0.

1...1 think that I am. Senator Grotberg, your amendment, I don'tl1.

believe added anything. If did, it contravenes the Public Contracts12.

Act. If it doesnlt, it...is meaningless. It says you shall give13. .

preference. Do you mean by that that if the Illinois manufacturer

comes in at six times the Indiana manufacturer of a product we have

to go with the six times higher product? Then: Senator, it hasl6.

absolutely no meaning whatsoever. It's nice and as Senator Vadalabene'sl7.

one...he said cast this to the winds of hilarity. If it doesnlt con-l8. '

travene the Illinois Purchasing Act, it doesn't have any impact.l9.

If a...if a foreign manufacturer or Indiana manufacturer does it20. .

cheaper we'll have to buy it. The other thing is IIm not sure, Senator2l.

Maragos, the last paragraph of your Xct, I thinky frankly, is almost22.

unmanageable. You will not authorize payment unless the head of23.

agency is.m.after inquiry is satisfied that the person has complied24.

with the provisions of this' Act. If I were a contractor in the State2b.

of Illinois and had any business with the State I would immediately26.

stop doing any work at all. You have the right under this by the

determination of any...any public agency just to say we don't believe28.

that youlve used Illinois products and therefore, we are withholding29.

twenty-five percent of your payment. That's just absolutely unfair30.

to do that to a contractor.31.


Senator Maragos may close.33.

264

:. SENATOR FGRAGOS:

2. Mr. Fresident and members of the Senate. I think we are

). building false strawmen here because what we're trying to do her&z

4 is what other states...pennsylvania is doing, many other states

throughout the nation are doing, protecting their own. It means

more jobs for our people in the Skate of Illinois and in answer to6.

Senator...Nimrod. I'd like to state to him that just because he7.

favors one industry, which is a very good industry in my district,8.

doesn't mean other industries should not be benefited and they are9.

not against this amendment. They would like to have had only thel0.

steel industry, but they are not against this bill if- .because theyll.

couldn't have their way. They say they still like the conceptl2.

and they are not in opposition to it. I don't like to have falsel3.

trails put against it. think this is a good concept. Itls supported

by Business and Economic Development Commission and I think all

of us should suppork it in order to create more jobs for the Statel6.

of Illinois and I ask for your support and vote.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)l8. .

A11 righh the question is shall House Bill 2240 pass. Thosel9.

in...senator Newhouser for what purpose do you rise?20.

SENATOR NETO OUSE:2l.

Mr. President, members of the Senate. ù. S. Steel...the plant22.

gate's in the middle of my district and I have heard nothing from23.

them in opposition to this bill so I certainly...24.


Senator, Senator Maragos was closing his argument.26. '

SENATOR NEWHOUSE :

Was closing his argumentqxvl'm sorry.28.


The question is shall House Bill 2240 pass. Those intfavor vote30.

Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l those voted3l.

who wish? Have a11 those voted who wish? Take the record. On that32.

question the Ayes are 3l. The Nays are l7. 3 Voting Present. House33.

265

Bill 2240, having received the constitutional majority, is declaredpassed. Senator Nimrod, for what purpose do you arise? Senator Nim-

). rod, for what purpose do you arise?

4. SENATOR NIMROD:

5 ...Before we go, 1et me at least talk to the Senator. Give me

6 the courtesy...

PRESIDING CFFTCER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Well, now, Senator, we...wedre on a tight schedule. For what8.

purpose do you arise?9.

SENATOR NIMROD:l0.

A verification of the affirmative...ll.


A11 right...a verification is requested. Will the members pleasel3.

be in their seats. Secretary will call the affirmative vote.l1.

l5.

l6.

l7.(END OF REEL #7)l8

.

l9.

20.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

266

REEL 48

Can the affirmatkve roll, please.2.

SECRETARY:3.

The following voted in the affirmative Becker, Berman,4.

Carroll, Chew, Collins, D'Arco, Daley, Demuzio, Egan, Geo-

Karis, Gitz, Grotberg, Hall, Johns, Jerome Joyce, Knuppel,6.

Lemke, Maragos, McLendon, Merlo, Moore, Nash, Nedza, Netsch,7.

Newhousè, Rhoads, Sangmeister, Savickas, Vadalabene, Washington,8.Mr. President.

9.PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

l0. 'Senator...senator Nimrod.

ll.SENATOR NIMROD:

l2.Senator Chew.


l4.Is Senator Chew on the Floor? Remove h:s name. The

l5.roll has been verified. On that question, the Ayes are 30,

l6.the Nays are 3 Voting Present. House Bill 2240: having

receive; the constitutional majority ks declared passed.l8.

Senator Rock for what purpose do you rise? He moves tol9.

reconsider...20..

SENATOR ROCK:21.

Yes.22.


.. .and Senator Johns moves...that 1ie on the Table.2 4 -.

Those in favor indicate by saying Aye. Those opposed. The motion2b.

carries.26.

SENATOR ROCK :27.

President...Mr. President, while I'm still on my feet, Iîve28.

discussed with the Minority Leader, the possiblity of working29.

until about 9:00 o'clock tonighk. I just wanted the membership30.

to aware. think twelve hours on any job is certainly enough.3l.

We do...we do...we do have an enormous ...amount of bills to32.

handle, and my suggestion is that at that point we will adjourn33. .

until 9:00 o'clock tomorrow morning, and prompkl# at 9:00 we will

267

:. begin with G e Agreed Bill List, and then start running...the

2 Chairman and Minority Spokesman of the Appropriations

) Committee indicate they're ready we can run all those out,

and get back to the Order of 3rd reading, and just keep...

and just keep going. can't sugges: how late wedll have5.

to go to get through them all but let's do as much as we6.

can between now and g:oo.odclock.7.


Senator Maragos, for what purpose do you rise?9.

SENATOR MARAGOS:l0.

Are we going to get on the list of the business tomorrowll.

of the postponed considerations?l2.


Senator, no one knows thak, until, I can respond to that.l4.

If we get through 3rd reading. Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:16.

I want Eo ask the President a question. Will any bills...l7.

will any bills be recalled tomorrow, at all? Can...are wel8.

able to recall any bills r or can we still...19.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)2 () .

Senator Rock.2l.

SENATOR ROCK:22.

Frankly, Ehe appropriations people tell me that :there are...23.

there is a possibility, at least,that one or two of of the bills,

particularly the Capital Development Board Bills would have

to be recalled. We will have to suspend the appropriate rule26.

so that the bills can be acted on the same day. So if an

individual member. has- .or if the Reference Bureau indicakes28.

that there's a technical flaw or something, I think29.

certainly possible to do that, I'm certainly not going to30.

encourage any more recalls, that's.- l think it's certainly3l.

possible, yes.32.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)33.

House Bill 2249, Senakor Berning. Read the bill, Mr. Secrekary.

268

SECRETARY:1.

2.

3.

House Bill 2249.

Secretary reads title of


FRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)5.

Senator Berning.6.

SENATOR BERNING:7.

Thank you, Mr. President, and members of the Senate. House8.

Bill 2249, does just exactly what Ehe poopsheet says, provides9.

a penalty for making a willful- .false statement to thel0.

Board of Review. We have had instances 'where people havell.

out-right lied giving false information. T would suggest al2.

favorable roll call, Ifl1 attempt to answer questions,

there are any.l4.

PRESIDING OFFICER: ( SENATOR DONNEWALD)l5.

Is there discussion? Question is, shall House Bill 2249l6.

pass. Those...those in favor vote Aye...just a moment, Senatorl7.

Bruce.l8.

SENATOR BRUCE:l9.

hope everyone is taking a look at what we're about20.

to do, maybe we ought to do it, but this makes a felony to2l.

. . .to deliver or disclose a returner's schedule of his property22.

in which there is a false statement regarding the price paid or23.

improvements made ko the property, to the Board of Review,and24. .

that makes it a...it makes that delivering of the schedule which25.

is falseya felony, and I...I'm just...ik does not Senator?26.


Senator Berning.28.

SENATOR BERNTNG:29.

Senator, line 19 states clearly, shall be guilty of a30.

Class A misdemeanor.3l.


Senator Bruce.33.

SENATOR BRUCE:

270

Well, I just...a point to you Senator, that your second

2. paragraph. If you make a false statement, list, or schedule,

3. under oath is guilty of perjury and perjury is, in fact, a

C%a ss 3 felony, which carries a prison sentence of one to

ten years. Now, you know, your second paragraph says that,

6. it doesn't have anything to do with...it says if you file it,

7 and make a false statement, and I just wonder whether that falsestatement of filing of a sehedule ought to be a felony in this8

.

State. That's a fairly severe penalty for someone who mis-

states *he price he paid for a pie ce of property, or mis-l0.

states the value of improvements, and I think that each andll.

everyone of us ought to know that youlre not jusk talkinq aboutl2.

the cash value you paid for someone to impro ve your property, youl3.

have to state the value as of today of those improvements#and

if you're in error: and they find you to be in errorz you've

comitted a felonyz and that seems to be for an administrative agency,l6.

like the Board of Review, to be a fairly gevere penalty.


Is there further discussion? Senator Geo-Karis.l9.


I was just going to reiterate what Senator Bruce said.2l.

true perjury is a Class 3 felony, and that's what House22.

'

kné - No. 2 indicates, and I don't think you can nullifyAfa in23.

perjury, it's still perjury' and I think if anyone just were24.

mistaken, think Ehey could be in horrible trouble, like Senator

Bruce says. If they estimate their house to be sixty thousand26.

the Board of Review say oh no, the market value is sevenky

thousand, if they get some creeps up there who donlt like28. '.

people they can really put them away.29.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Berhing3l.

may close :he debate. Senator Berning.32. .

SENATOR BERNING:33.

Well, thank you, Mr. President. What this is, is someone

27l

,

M= zgJAA

'

J -.u-' zz

willfully makes a false statement. Whether it's too severe2. , i

t turough 50th :heor not I don t pretend to know. Th s wen3. House Committee and the Houser and our Senate Committee with-4. out a dissenting vote. There is no intention her e Eo over5* if khe penalty is too much for you, vcte itpenalize, but6* have had cases in Lake County khere thereup or down. We7* have been people willfully and knowingly file false statements,8. and the State's Attorney has been unable to take any corrective

9. action against these persons. Thatîs the reason for the bill.

l0. submik it to your kind attention .

ll. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

l2. Question is, shall House Bill 2249 pass. Those in favor

l3. will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting

t4. is open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have all voted who wish?

l5. Savickas votes No. Take the record. On that question,the

l6. Ayes are 18, the Nays are 28. 6 Voting Present. House Bill

2249, having failed to. receive a constitutional majority

l8. is delcared lost. House Bill 2268, Senator McMillan. Read

19. the bill, Mr. Secretary.

20. SECRETARY:

2l. House Bill 2268.

22. ( Secretary reads title of bill )





House Bill 2268, deals with the portion of the Statutes,

28. dealing with special referenda called by local units. of

29. government lower the tax rate limit, and what this does

30. to make sure that those must be filed seventy-eight days

3l. prior to the next election of officers of that tax diskrick, which

32. is consistent with what wefre going to do in consolidation of

33. elections. It also prohibits more than ' three proposikions from

being submitted, at the game election for the same Body, and says

272

: >> - nV, cy-4* . uoyul5that the first three valid propositions will be the three

2 that go on the ballot. would seek a favorable roll call.


there further discussion? If not, Senator McMillan4.

moves...if not, the question is, shall House Bill 2268 pass.

Those in favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay.6.

The voting is open. Have all voked who wish? Have a11 voted

who wish? Take the record. On that question, the Ayes are8.

54, khe Nays are none. None Voting Presént. House Bill 2268,

having received the constitutional majority is declared passed.l0.

House Bill 2269, Senator Lemka Egan. House...senate Bi1l...ll.

House Bill 2273, Senator Knuppel. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.l2.

SECREYARY:l3.

House Bill 2273.l4.

( Secretary reads title of bill


PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l7.

Senator Knuppel.l8.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:19.

Mr. Chairman: and members of the Body. A year ago you20.

will recall sponsored legislation to prevent medical ass-2l.

ociations and others from using dead fetuses or parts thereof22.

in medical research or otherwise. Now, I'm told that there23.

is a need, laboratory-wise for research, this bill opens up24.

that closed door a little bit, when says that the tissues25.

and cells, et cetera, for- .for experimentation and for research26.

can be used from fetuses where the death occured from a non-

induced loss of a fetus. It can't be from an induced abortion.28.

So this upholds al1 the abortion laws, but says that if a woman29.

abortszand itîs noE induced, that that fetus can be used for30.

medical research. think this is good legislation, can be3l.

helpful to our infants and to health care generally, and I would32.'

solicik a favorable roll call.33.


273

t.

SENATOR MARTIN :

In no weight, I think you're probably right, and I...do you...

it's a question, do you seek permission from.the mother?4.


Senator Knuppel.6.

SENATOR MARTTN:

Or is it just done automatically? Before you would be8.

able to use even that unborn or the born...okay the fetus, would9.

you seek permission from the mother or parent?l0.

PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Knuppel. Senator Knuppel.l2.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:l3.

I1m sure that that would be required. I don't havel4.

it right in front of me, at this moment, but it would be required.l5.

It is required by the laww yes. Of. the parentszboth.l6.

PRESIDING OFPICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l7.

Is there furkher dâscussion? Senator Rock...or Senatorl8.

Bruce.l9.

SENATOR BRUCE:

No, I was just going to answer the questioq it requireswritten consent of one of the parents before this can be done.

P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)

Senator Wooten.24.

SENATOR WOOTEN:25.

Yes; simply wanted to remind the membership, because this26.

has fetus, and abortion and all the.-.What have now'become buzz27.

words, you may be frightened off of this. Please remember that28. '

i: is still considered a'laudable Ehing for people ko leave their29.

bodies to science for necessary research. We don't permit in30.

this, the product of an abortion to be used, but if a consent is

given, and Itll tell you, if you can't have an opportunity to32.

medically look at human remains, and any stage of development, you33.

are crippling, you aré really crippling the whole research medical

Ts there further discussion? Senator Mar*in.

: establishment. I hope you wonlt think in those alarming

2 terms, because it really doesn't apply to that: a nd in our

zeal last time we just a little bit too far in this law.3.


Is there fûrther discussion? If not, Senator Knuppel

may close debate.6.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:7.

There's nobody more pro-life then I am, and if were bad8.

for that reason, I wouldnlt be supporting9.


Question is, shall House Bill 2273 pass. Those in favorll.

will vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open.l2.

Have a11 voked who wish? Have al1 voted kho wish? Take the

record. On that question, the Ayes are the Nays are none.

5 Voting Present. House Bill 2273, having received a constitu-

tional majority is declared passed. House Bill 2282, Senatorl6.

Berman. House Bill 2283, Senator...senakor Berman. Oh, T'ml7.

sorry. I'm sorry Senator, I marked the wrong...the wrongl8.

one. Our next order of business is, House Bill 2280, Senatorl9.

Knuppel. Read the bill, Mr. Seeretary.20.

SECRETARY:2l.

House Bill 2280.22.


3rd reading of bhe bill.24.

PRESIDTNG OFFTCER; (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Knuppel.26.

SENATOR ENUPPEL:27.

Mr. President, and membërs of the Body. This bill would28.

require the Department of Correetions to develop and implement29.

an energy conservation program. It was a recommendation of the20. Governor's Cost Control Task Force, the estimated cose is 1.l31. million, but the savingseach year, thereafter, is estimated to32. be l.1 million. So it would pay for itself in one year: and33. it's in accordance with, as I say, the recommendation of the

275

I CosE Control Task Force, good legislation, and I recommend a

2 favorable roll call.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)3. .

Is there further discussion? Tf not, the question is,4.

shall House Bill 2280 pass. Those in favor will vo*e Aye.5.

Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted6. .

who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take khe record. On7.

that question, the Ayes are 48, the Nays are 4. 1 Voting8.

Present. House Bill 2280 having recelved the constitutional9.

majority is declared passed. House Bill 2283, Senator Berman.10.

Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.1l.

SECRETARY:l2.

House Bill 2283.

( Secretary reads title of bill )l4.


PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)l6.

Senator Berman.l7.

SENATOR BERMAN:l8.

Thank you, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of khel9.

Senate. House Bill 2283 sets up the process for public State20.

funding grants to our public television stations throughout the2l.

State of Illinois. It will provide assistance to five stations22.

presently in operation, WSIU, in Carbondale, WUSI, in Olney,23.

WTTW, in Chicago, WTVP, ,in Peoria,WlLL, in Champaign. Illinois24.

is one of the few states that does not have a program of public

assistance for public television. It is a program that will26. ' '

provide two types of granEs, a basic service grant, an operating27.

support grant. 1111 be glad to respond to any questions.28.

think it's a very important first step to improve a very valuable29.

part of the educational and entertainment program available30.

khroughout the State of Illinois. I ask for a favorable vote.31.



SENATOR SOMMER:

276

I Mr. President, and members. I rise to oppose this

2 measure, again another biq dollar program, that we'-

) re going down the road to. The one station in Olney doesn't

4 even exist, so wedre talking about four, apparently. Of course

the one in Chicaqo is going to get most of the money, and

a11 the rest of us are qoing to get a hundred thousand,6.

two hundred Ehousand dollars, and it simply is, as all these-7.

programs have come down, Ehis is the worst, as far as can8.

see it, and I would certainly oppose it.9.


Is there furkher discussion? If not, Senator Berman mayll.

close khe debate.l2.

SENATOR BERMAN:

At the present time, the Skate Illinois ranks forty-

seventh in fifty states. The other three states don't have

public TM. Forty-seventh in...in the amount of money thatl6.

we appropriate for assistance to our public TV, these arel7.

stations that do not sell commercial time. Most of thel8.

money is raised by public funding. It's an important part ofl9.

the total educational television programs. I ask for your20.

favorable support for...public TV throughout the State of2l.

Illinois.22.


Question is, shall House Bill 2283 pass. Those in favor24.

will vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open.

Have a1l voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take26.

the record. On that question, the Ayes are 35, the Nays are27.

21. None Votinglpresent. House Bill 2283, having received28.

the constitutional majority is declared passed. House Bill29.

2284, Senator D'Arco. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.30.

SECRETARY:31.

House Bill 2284.32.


3rd reading of the bi11..

277


Senator D'Arco.

3. SENATOR D'ARCO:

4. Thank you, Mr. President. Now, there's are buzzword in

5. khis bill. So, don't want you to get frightened by it.

6. Itds...the word is payraise, buy I don't want you Eo get

7. frightened by that buzzword. The intent of the bill is

8. like research for human waste, at the Sanitary District, and

* we have to continue thak researchh in order Eo better man-

lc kind, and...no, no really...do I sound like Wooten. No?

11 Here's what the bill does, floks. No, someone...this is

a payraise bill for the Sanitary Diskrict trust.- commissionsers,l2.

not trustees. It phases-in...it phases-in their payraise in13.

five percent increments a year. Someone said it's a fifteenl4.

pyrcent payraise, but that's al1 it does, it's really veryl5.

nominal. From thirty thousand for the vice-president,tol6.

thirty-one five: and then it goes to thirty-three, so itfsl7.

a very nominal pay increase, and I would atk for your support.l8.


Is Ehere further discussion? Senator Grotberg.20.

SENATOR GROTBERG:2l.

A question of the sponsor.22.


He indicates he will yield.24.


Are these full time positions?26.


Senator D'Arco.28.

SENATOR D'ARCO:29.

Oh yes, ik's the president, the vice-president, the30.

finance chairman, and al1 the other elected members of the31.Sanitary District Commission. mean khese are full time

32.employegsz : Yes.

33.

t.

2.

278


2 Senator Grotberg.

SEANTOR GROTBERG:

Do they have any other jobs? Are they full time in

just Ehese?5.


Senator D'Arco.7.

SENATOR D'ARCO:8.

No, they don't have any other jobs.9.


None at all?1l.

SENATOR D'ARCO :l2.

NoJ I talked Eo everyone of them, I asked them how muchmoney they make, and they a1l said that's it.

l4.SENATOR GROTBERG:

l5.Well, to use my last few seconds. The gentleman is right,

16. 'it is in five percent increments, but it peaks out in 1985, at

l7.thirty-seven thousand five hundred dollars annually for the

l8. .president, thirty-five for the vice-president, thirty-two five for the

l9.' Chairman of the finance committee, and Ehirty thousand dollars for the

20.other board lembers, and that.- they're doing better than the

2l.legislators, that's a11 I can tell you folks.

22.PRESTDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

23.Is khere further discussion? Senator Rhoads.

24.SENATOR RHOADS:

Senator D'Arco, what is the current salary, now for26.

the trustees?27.

PRESIDTNG OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)28.

SenaEor D'Arco.29.

SENATOR D'ARCO:30.

The trustees are only making twenky-five thousand.3l.


Senator...senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

279

1.

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l6.

17.

l8.

l9.

20.

22.

23.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

And this is prospective only after the 1980 election,

is that correct?

SENATOR D'ARCO:

That is correct, Senator.

PRESIDING OFFICE:R (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

Well, believe it or not, Mr. President, I'm going to

rise in support of the bill. talked to this...l talked

to Nick Melis about Ehis bill. I think it's a perfectly

reasonable approach, think it's a good bill.

FRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Nash.

SENATOR NASH:


Just to clarify the record a little bit. The only Erustee...or. commissioners in the Sanitary District who'll get this

payraise, are the three commissioners, who'll be elected in

nex Novermber's election. The next three that get this raise

will be the three that are elected, three years from now. The

ones taht are already in holding office will not get this raise. So,

it's starting with next year's election. The three that get

elected then, and this bill's supported by the Civic Federation.


Is there any further discussion? Senator Nedza.

SENATOR NEDZA:

Thank- .thank you, Mr. Eresident. We talk about raise,

increase in salary as though it was a plague, but yet the

Sanitary District a highly complex operatiop, and in order

to acquire the talent and the type of people who are proficient

and have the backgrounds, and they would still be underpaid,

that shut up Johnny do I can talkz that 1...1 think that this

is necessary in order to attract the type of individual that

would be comprehensive and also understandable of' the operation

280

to the districk, and I support this bill.

2 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICMAS)

Is there further discussion? Senator Nash for the second3.

time.4.

SENATOR NASH:

Yes, one more p6int, Mr.president, forgot to make the6.

trustees who'll be getting this raise are making twenty thousand7.

a year, and they're the ones that got elected in 1974, thànk you.8.


Senakor Becker.l0.

SENATOR BECKER:l1.

Mr. President, I calf for the previous question.l2.


There's been motion for the previous question, Senatorl4.

Becker, we have just one other speaker, that had requested tol5.

speak, and that was Senator Moore. Senator Moore.l6.

SENATOR MOORE:

Will the sponsor yield, Mr. President?l8.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATCR SAVICKAS)l9.

He indicates he will.20.

SENATOR MOORE:2l.

Are these raises, within the Presidential guidelines, Senator22.

DlArco?23.


Senator D'Arco.25.

SENATOR D'ARCO:26. '

I indicated that thpy were five precent..wincreases a year.

The Presidential guidelines call for seven percent raises, so28.

they definitely fall within the Presidential guidelines.29.

SENATOR MOORE :30.

Then I intend to support the bill, thank you.3l.

SENATOR D'ARCO :32.

Thank you.33.


281

If therels no further discussion. Senator D'Arco.

2.

).

4.

may close the debate.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

For the betterment...no, no...vote for the bill.


6. Question isr shall House Bill 2284 pass. Those in favor

7. will vote Aye. Those opposed voEe Nay. The voEing is open.

8. Have al1 voted who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Take the

9. record. On lthat question, Ehe Ayes are 344 the Nays are l3.

l0. 5 Voting Present. House Bill 2284, having received the consti-

1l. tutional majority is declared passed. House Bill 2291, Senator

12. Nedza. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

13 SECRETARY:

14 House Bill 2281.

15 Secretary reads title of


PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l7.senator Nedza.l8.

SENATOR NEDZA:l9.

20 Yes, Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the

Senate. House Bill 2291, as amended was passed inithe House21.

by 153 to 1 vote, and it does the following, it increases the22.

penalities for exceeding axle loads and gross weight, the schedule23.

being a thousand pounds to two thousand pounds presently it's24.

two cents, it will go to zero. Two thousand pounds to three25.

thousand pounds from four cents to six cents. Three thousand26.

pounds to four thousand pounds from six to eight. Four27.

thousand pounds to five thousand pounds, eight to ten. Five28.

thousand pounds or greater, ten to twelve. This is the...the29.

Department of Transportation, khe Illinois State Police, the30.

Motor Vehicle Laws Commission,thè Trucking Industry, are all in3l.

agreement in concert with this bill, and it also coincides with32.

the Governor's Cost Control Tax Force. I and Charlie Chew.- senator33.

Chew's is also in favor of Ehis.

282

1. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)2 . Is there any further discussion? If not, the question

is , shall House Bill 2291 pass . Those favor will vote Aye .4 ' ing open

. Have a11 votedThose opposed vote Nay. The vot5. ho wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record. Onw

6 ' that queskion, the Ayes are 40 , the Nays are House Bill

7 . and 6 voting Present. House Bill 2291, having received

8. the constitutional majority is declared passed. House Bill

9. 2296, Senator Coffey. Read the bill: Mr. Secretary.

l0. ACTING SECRETARY: (l4R. FERNANDES)

ll.

l2.

l3.

House Bill 2296.

( Secretary reads title of bill


l4. PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

l5. Senator Coffey.

l6. SENATOR COFFEY:

l7. President, and members of the Senate. House Bill

18. 2296, amends the Vehicle Code, requires the Secretary of

l9. State to investigate whether a homemade trailer has been

20. stolen prior ko insurance or registration plakes and skickers,

2l. and I'd ask for a favorable roll call, and be glad to answer

22. any questions. This is a...Motor Vehicles Laws Commission supports

23. this bill, and ask for a favorable roll call.

24. PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

25. Is there further discussion? Senator Chew.

26. SENATOR CHEW:

27. To the sponsor. Did you work out the agreement with the

28. Secretary of Stake, as to what khe . manpower would be, and how

29. he would administer this since we have maybe three thousand home-

ao. made trailers? know they said something about it would be

al. a terrific expense over two hundred and some thousand dollars.

32 Did you work khat out?

ag. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Coffey.

283

SENATOR COFFEY:1.

Well, Senator Chew, I specifically didn't work it2.

out, Representative Von Boeckman said that...told me that every-).

thing was okay, m d they were agreement. I...beyond that4.

can't answer that. know there was a question, they5.

were talking originally about three thousand trailers, and6.

think that was total amount of trailers, and that there isn't7.

three *housand...l think, in fact, there's not three thousand8.

every year, homemade trailers being...being registered. I think9.

that was the question, whether there was three thousandl0.

total or three thousand each year. I think that was a toEalll.

amount, now homemade trailers in the State, and that therel2.

wouldn't be three thousand each year.l3.


Senator Chew.l5.

SENATOR CHEW :16.

Well, now, the...tye fiscal impact on this is estimatedl7.

to be about two hundred and sixty-six thousand dollars, Senator18. .

and as you know the Secretary of State, said the money wasl9.

not budgeted...the question I am asking you, Sir is, how20.

do we propose to give them the money to administer the program21.

insomuch, as the Secretary of State's office does not have it?22.


Senator Coffey.24.

SENATOR COFFEY:25.

Senator Chew, I don't have an answer for that, I only26.

could say to you, that they didn't testify in opposition to27.

it in the House andso I understand...l remember they didn't28. '

testify according to my papers I have before me, khat they29.

didn't testify in opposition to it before, so I donlt...l suppcse3ô.

khey would absorb it within their own budget now.3l.

SENATOR CHEW :32. . ,

I1m concerned about it Senatoj. Not because it s yourbill, but because of the kwo hundred and sixty-six thousand dollars

284

and, if we're going to tighten up on the budget, think1.

that ought to be 1ef t to the Secretary of Skate as to whether2:

he wants to inspect Ehose trailers before issuing Ehose...3.



SENATOR CHEW:6.

. . .devices, so 1...7.

PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)8.

Senator.. SenaEor Rock. Senator Bruce, I mean.9.

SENATOR BRUCE:10.

Thank you, Mr. President, and members of the Senate. I risell.

in opposition. I hope everybody takes a look and and readsl2.

this jewel, I mean it...it says before the Secretary canl3.

kssue a license, he's got to go out and certify that the trailer

is not stolen. Nowy who...who submits a certificate on a stolen

trailer? You know, I...I...there...there' are three 'khousandl6.

of these little rascals running around, and it's going tol7.

cost two hundred and sixty-six thousand dollars. I don't knowl8.

who cares about homemade trailers, but I don't care Ewo hundred19.

and sixty-six thousand dollars worth, and when someone says20.

hey, Ild like to have this title to my homemade trailer, to say2l.

that I have to certify that itîs not stolen, it's just ludicrous.22.

I think this is one that the Motor Vehicle Laws Commission, and23.

I stand with my Chairman of Transportation. I1m sure he gave24.

this bill a full and thoroughly hearing in his committee and

came out of there by accident. We ought to...quiet, Senator26.

Bowers. It got a full hearing and unfortunately came out

the committee. rise opposition.28.


Senator Hall.30.

SENATOR HALL:3l.

Will the sponsor yield for a question ?32.


285

1.

2 SENATOR HALL:

) Senator Coffey, what's the...what caused this bill to be

4 introduced, would you know?


Senator Coffey.6.

SENATOR COFFEY:

As I understand, again from Representative Von Beockman which8.

was the sponsor over the House. It was a part of what9.

he considered by the chop chop problem, thak there's a 1otl0.

of stolen trailers...vehicles, and they were doing it to takell.

care of that problem, and it was mentioned that three thousand12.

trailers, they was talking about, running around now. It

doesn't affect Ehe ones running around now, it affects thel1.

new ones that are licensed from now on.l5.

SENATOR HALL:l6.

Yes, well...l7.

PRESIDING OFFICER: XSENATOR SAVICKAS)l8.

Senator Hall.l9.

SENATOR HALL:20.

When you say homemade, just what are you talking about,2l.

homemade?22.


Senator Coffey.24.

SENATOR COFFEY:2b.

I'm talking about any trailer, any chasis that might be26.

taken from an automobile in a welding shop or in your own27.

backyard, or something put together, or something- .trailer28.

that might be changed from one design to another to cover up29.

the stolen- .stolen trailer.30.

PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)3l.

Senator Philip.32.

SENATOR PHILIP:

He indicates he will.

Thank you...thank you Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen

of the Senate. You know/ nothing gets out of Transportation by

286

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

14.

l5.

l6.

accident, we a11 know that. SenaEor Chew voted for this

bill, there were eleven members of that committee and a1l

eleven voted fbrathis bill. Now, all of a sudden, it gets

on 3rd reading, and a11 of the sudden E'here''s somekhing wrong

with it. I don't understand that. Now, I know that Charlie

Chew never makes mistakes, and when I look at my record and

see that he voted for it, and got it out of committee,

know go to be right, and I think we ought to support

l8.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.


Senator Chew for the second time.

SENATOR CHEW :

Mr. President, yes, supported the bill with the understanding

that it would be cleared with the Secretary of State, and the money

would be forthcoming, and that's why my first question to the

sponsor was that, but it would be imposâible to administer

any monies not availâ.ble, and so long as the Secretary of

State is still opposed to it, because of hte financial

strain it places on his office, and the manpower in which he

does not have. I would violently oppose the billyand with

a11 due respect Eo Senator Coffey, he knows that's why I votedto get the bill out, and it's not a Motor ' Vehicle Laws Commission

Bill, it is not.

PRESI DING OFFICER:ISENATOR SAVICKAS)

Is there further discussion?

SENATOR CHEW:

It's a bad bill.


Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

Thank you, Mr. President. I would just like to observe

for the benefit of the sponsor, khat there is no conceivable

way, that I see, that anyone can eskablish ownership for say a

homemade trailer, and give you an illustration, I have one

3.

4.

5.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

up in my barn, Wisconsin. I were to bring it to

Illinois, and give ik to you Senator, there's no way I

could prove to you that I hadn't stolen it, and there's

no way you could prove that I had a right to give it to

you. If, with new trailers there is some requirement to

implant a.- an indentifying mark. then you could- .you

could implement this, but without that, don't see how

it's possible.


Is there further discussion? If notz Senator Coffey

may close the debate.

SENATOR COFFEY:

Mr. President, and members of the Senate. again would

just like to go over very briefly over this bill. Now, wedretalking about these three thousand trailers running around

over the State, that was diseussed: and I evidently...the

Secretary of State is talking about, and evidently they

didn't read the bill- .maybe the Secretary didn't read

the bill, or the Secreta/y's people, because it doesn't

address those khree thousand running around a1l over the

State. addresses new vehicle registrations,and to answer

the question by Senator Berning, he said how are we going to

tell whether his vehicle is stolen...or that his trailer has

been stolen. Thereîs a recod of the trailers that have

been stolen, and is reported in the 1aw enforcement,they

take the trailers...there's a rr.co.rd of those vehicles, and

when khe inspection is made, they have description of those

trailers and try to find some parts such as they have in the

chop shop on automobiles. 1...1 again...reiterate that there's

not three thousand vehicles going to be...registrated..re:

'gistrations on every year, only new vehicles will be investigated.

And, I'd ask for a favorable roll call.

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR GAVICKAS)

Question is, shall House Bill 2296 pass. Those in favor will

l8.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

288

vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is

2 open. Have al1 voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish?

Take the record. On Ehat question, the Ayes are l9, Ehe3.

Nays are None Voting Present. House 2296, having4.

failéd to receive a constitutional majority is declared lost.House Bill 2305, Senator Nash. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.6

.

ACTING SECRETARY: (MR. FERNANDES)7.

House Bill 2305.8.( SecreEàry reads title of bill )


PRESTDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)ll.

Senator Nash.l2.

SENATOR NASH :l3.


House Bill 23054 simply increases the time of liability forl5.

taxes, criminal liability from eighteen months to three years.l6.

It's a bill requested by the Department of Revenue.


Is there further discussion? Senator Rhoads.l9.

SENATOR RHOADS:20. .

Well, Senator Nash, didn't I pass this bill out of the2l.

Senate...identical bill.22.


SenaEor Nash.24.

SENATOR NASH:25.

I don't know Mark. Tt's...it's similar to your's.26. '

SENATOR RHOADS:

It's identical...28.

SENATOR NASH :29. .

It's similar but your's came back with an amendment.30.

changes the Statute of limitations from eighteen months to three3l.

years for criminal liability, and we had an amendment to this32.

bill in the House, which left the civil...33.

SENATOR RHOADS:

289

This apparently has been amended there in the Senate, as.2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

well, right.

SENATOR NASH:

Yes, that was a technical amendment, because they had

presnetly...the Department has three and half years on civil

liability and we had three in the bill and it was changed to

the present three and a half years.


Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

Wellr the...the bill that I had requested would...that

sponsored was an administration bill. I sponsored it at the

request of the Administration, now, are you saying the Admin-

istration requesked you to sponsor...Representative OlBrien

to sponsor it over in the House?

SENATOR NASH:

This campatible bill to yours, Senator Rhoads.


Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

Will the sponsor yield for a question?


He indicates he will.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

Senator...Nash, are you saying that...under this bill

there would be three years to file any civil acEion, because

T read èf my Digest, and says that Senate Amendment No.

kook out that provision that said that any civil action, with

the recovery of any amount, due uhder this Act, may.bbetl

commenced at any time, within three years. Now,unless you

had another amendment, you know, that was not in the Digest.

SENATOR NASH:

No# khe civil.- part of it, was amended ko read three

and a half years, which is the present law. The criminal part of

l0.

1l.

l2.

l3.

14.

l6.

18.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

290

l it was changed from eighteen months as the law is presenkly

2 to three years.


4 Okay'


Is there further discussion? Senator Wooten.6.

SENATOR WOOTEN:7.

Yes, pardon me. I'm trying to get straight on this.8.

Senator Nash, according Eo my analysis of Amendment No....9.

is Amendment No. is that the only amendment on it?l0.

SENATOR NASH :1l.

Yes, Senator'zwooten. That was a technical amendment requestedl2.

by the Department of Revenue. The present Statute reads threel3.

and a half...l4.

SENATOR WOOTEN:l5.

Well...16.

SENATOR NASH :

. . .yearS...'18.

SENATOR WOOTEN:l9.

Well, Ehat's not my question. Did .you change.- it says it20.

strikes language setting a three year limit on civil actions,2l. .

recover tax, the three year period would have been...would have22. '

begun on the date the taxes %'ere due.23.

SENATOR NASH:24.

That kas unworkable: Senator Wooten.25.

SENATOR WOOTEN:26.

That was what?

SENATOR NASH:28.

That was unworkable.29.

SENATOR WOOTEN :30.

That was unworkable. What workable now? Three years31.

from when?32.

SENATOR NASH:33.

We're keeping the criminal part, we took out the civil part

29l

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

because

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

l4.

l5.

l6.

17.

18.

l9.

20.

21.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

was in conflict with the existing law. It would

have reduced the ability to enforce the law.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

Okay, a11 right.

SENATOR NASH:

By the request of the Department of Revenue.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

Okay, I see.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Nash may

close the debate.

SENATOR NASH:

In keeping with Donnewald Rule, I urge a Yes vote.


Question is, shall House Bill 2205 pass. Those in favor

vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open. Have

a11 voted:twho wish? Have a1l voted who gwish? Take the

record. On that question, the Ayes are 48, none Voting Present...

None Voting No, and 4 Voting Present. House Bill 2305, having

received the constitutiönal majority is declared passed. HouseBill 2308, Seantor Joyce. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

ACTING SECRETARY: (MR. FERNANDES)

House Bill 2308.




Senator Joyce.

SENATOR JEREMIAH JOYCE:

Thank you, Mr. President, and members of the Senate. House

Bill 2308, if enacted , will increase the penalty from a misdemeanor

to a Class 4 felony, for any employee of the commission who re-

ceives gifts, in violation of the Act. It also allows finës

in liu of suspension of revocation of liquor license, Ehis

comes to us as a result of a recommendation, 308, of the Governor's

292

2.

3.

4.

7.

8.

l0.

ll.

12.

l3.

l1.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

Cost Conkrol Task Force, it allows the State Liquor Control Commission

to apply to a circuit court for a contempt order against

an individual who fails to comply with an order of the commission,

an it raises the fees, approximately fifty percent, and I move

your favorable consideration.


Is there further discussion? Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR DIARCO:

Senator, what is the penalky now, for receiving a éift?


Senator Joyce.


A penalty...the penalty now, for receiving a gift, in

violation of the Act is a Class A misdemeanor.


Senator Wooten.

SENATOR WOOTEN :

Well, Senator Joyce, as in committee, my question I suppose

relates to fees. Amendment No.2 is the latest amendment on this

bill, is that correct?


That is correct.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

I'm just glancing down this list, yourve not changed the

distillers, rectifiers, brewer's fees. The fee changes are

mostly in distribuEor's license, a doubling of that fee, doubling

os some non-beverage user's license fees: and although...l see

some of the same. I'm told by a industry spokesman that the

Department of Liquor turns about three hundred thousand dollars

a year over to the General Revenue Fund now, and he maintains

that this would generate something like in excess of a million

dollars to General Revenue Fund, is that an exaggeration or not?


Well, as you've indicated this question was raised during

293

2.

).

4.

6.

7.

8.

l0.

ll.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

committee hearing: and an amendment...as result of that an

amendment was placed on the bill, which reduced the original

proposed fees, from three : hundred dollars to two hundred

dollars for distributors, from fifty dollars Eo thirty dollars

for wine maker reEail license, and from one hundred dollars

to sevenky-vive dollars from the retailer's license. Your...

your argument is sound wikh respect to the thought that fees

are not to exceed the expense incurred for enforcement df the Act

as would be in the case in any licenseing Statute, as to wheEher

or not your figures are correck, I'm not altbgekher certain at

this time. We' have tried to amend it.

SENATOR WOOTEN :

Yes, Senator, and I see that now. It certainly is in

different shape than when it lefE committee, and...and I will

confess to you, don't know what the truth of the matter is.

I was simply told the bill would double the take, which I

guess is about a million two now, and the cost is only abont

nine hundred thousand, at least that's what T1m told by an

industry spokesman, but you have cut this down, somewhat, the other

provision of the bill is good. The only question that remains


Senatory your time has expired.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

All right.


Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAHAM:

think if a close examination wedll find out that House

Bill 2308 is almost identical to Senator Netschls 236, which

did not survive, was placed on Postponed ConsideraEion, and

recommitted to the committee. think T'm correct on that. think

that's a fair analyzation for us to maybe take a look at it, I'm

not trying to tube the Senator's bill, I'm stating to you the

facts as see them, as our staff report showsn .shows us what this

294

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

bill does. If 236 wasn't good enough to pass the Senate,

wonder why...l just wonder why?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICXAS)

Senator Gitz.

SENATOR GTTZ:

Mr. President, and members of the Senate. As you know

I'm a...co-sponsor of this bill, because I think the original

intent was very laudable. would agree that there is some

technical defects and I would kind of urge my fellow sponsor

to perhaps we could work out some of these flaws and pass a

billr which I think will work. In its present form, unfortunately

we have a situation where I undersEand the Liquor Control Commisàion

will have to make some, several thousand separate computations

and I fear that if it does go out of here, and by some miracle it

was signed, we would create some havoc khat we don't intend to,

and I would' really like to see the bill improved so it would be

proper form.


Is there further discussion? If not, Senator Joyce

may close debate.

SENATOR JEREMTAH JOYCE:

move your favorable consideration at this time.


Question is, shall House Bill 2308 pass. Those in favor

vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open. Have al1

voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record. On

that question, Ehe Ayes are 49z the Nays are 4. 2 Voting Present.

House Bill 2308, having received the constitutional majority

declared passed. House Bill 2309, Senator Joyce. Read the

bill, Mrqsecretary.


House Bill 2309.

( Secretary reads title of bill)

3rd reading of the bill

295


2. senator Joyce.

3. SENATOR JEREMIAH JOYCE:

4. Thank you, Mr.president, and members of the Senate.

This bill restores the requirement that retailers registered

6. under the Retailers Occupation Tax Act, suppliers'registeeed

7 under the Service Occupation Tax Act, and hotel operators

8 registered und the Hotel Oerators Occupation Tax Act, will file an

annual information return with *he Department of Revenue,

addition to regularly submitted tax returns. In i*s originall0.

form, it was a- .there was a mandatory provision as amended, itll.

is now at the discretion of the department rather than mandatory.12.

urge yourcfavorable consideration at this time.l3.


Is there further discussion? If not, the question is,l5.

shall House Bill 2309 pass. Those in favor vot e Aye. Thosel6.

opposed vote Nay. The voting is open. Have al1 voted who wish?

Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question,18.

the Ayes are 53, the Nays are none. l Voting Present. House19.

Bill 2309, having received the constitutional majority is declared20.

passed. House Bill 2310, Senator Joyce. Read the bill, Mr.2l.

Secretary.22.

ACTING SECRETARY: (MR. FERNANDES)23.

House Bill 2310.24. '



PRESIDING OFFICER: 'ISENATOR SAVICKAS)27.

Senator Joyce.28.


Thank you, Mr. Presidenty and metbers of the Senate. House30.

Bill 2310, will increase the membership of the State Scholar3l.

Commission by two, one of who is to be a student. As amended32.

the term of'the studènt appointee would be for *wo years, and33. -

there is an addikional amendment on the original bill, which would

296

2.

).

4.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

provide that no student may receive a scholarship or a grant

pursant to the Higher Education Student Assistance Law during

his or her term with the commission. I urge your favorable

consideration.


Is there further discussion? Senator Davidson.

SENATOR DAVIDSON:

Mr. President, and members of the Senate. I rise in

opposikion to this bill. Several years ago when al1 of you

were sitting of this Floor and down in committee and heard the students

. . .said ''Just give us a right ko have a voice to be heard. We don't

want the right to vote on the Board of Higher Education, Board

of Governors, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera'' and they're doing

exactl' y what I asked them then, they'd be back to do, they

put the nose of the camel under the tent, and they'd be back to

get the voting rights, and that's exactly what this bill is.

It gives the sEudent member voking rights on this board, it's$

'

going to expand it to two, so they'll have an uneven number.

We got additional expense, but most importantly that student, that

student, is going to be voting on the recommendations to the

Scholarship Commission, they're going to do the funding, and

he may be re recipient of Ehe money. urge you to al1 vote

No .


Senator Nimrod.

SENATOR NIMROD:

Yes, thank you, Mr. President. In addition to the reasons

that Senator Davidson has given, think there's something else...to

keeè in mind. This will be the first voting member. Now, they'bre

going to come back and we vote for this one, they'll come back

then at khe local colleges, and theyfll-. want to be voting members

there too, since we've done it on the commission. This bad part

of this particplar bill, is in addition to them receiving the money,that, in fact, they have to miss school in order to

297

2.

3.

6.

7.

8.

l0.

1l.

l2.

13.

l4.

l5.

16.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

attend meeting. That means they're coming from other parts

of the Statez weîll have to give them time off to get there

and just think this whole concept of tyring to give thema voting m' ember on the Scholarship Board, where, in fact, we

have problems of deliberating where these scholarships go

here in the commission. I think it's wrong for them to be

. . .be involved as a voting member, or even be a part of that

Scholarship Commission. We've okay'd it under schools,and

I do not see any reason for this, and I would urge you not to

support this bill.

PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senators, just a moment, we have, and I will read thenames in order, so we can...we have the following members that

wish to be heard on this, Sentor Coffey, Graham, De Angelis, Geo-

Karis,Berning,and Collins. Senator Coffey.

SENATOR CUFFEY:

Mr. President, and members of the Senate. rise in favor

of Ehis bill. think it's a good bill, and it's a good concept.

It's bee amended to...I think the amendment makes the bill even

better. I don't see any reason why a student shouldnft be a

voting member, they're certainly in the minority as far as this

group is concerned. They have the best pulse of the other

members of the university students, and I think as long as they

are not receiving a scholarship or grant Ehat-..that they should

be allowed to vote, and I would hope that you would vote in

favor of this bill.


Senator Graham. For what purpose does Senator Vadalabene

arise?

SENATOR VADALABENE:

Yes, after you read that list, who was *he last one on

there?


Senator Collins.

298

SENATOR VADALABENE:

2 move Ehe previous question after her.

P RESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)3.Youdve heard the motion. Al1 those in favor indicate4

.

by saying Aye. The motion carries. Senator Graham.5.

SENATOR GRAHAM:6.

Yes, Mr. President. It jusE seems to me, that when7.

we start talking about the distribution and spending of8.

public funds, it could best be done by people who pay taxes.9.

Now, in most cases the students are not paying taxes, and there'sl0.

a pretty good reason for them to get on Ehere and spend some-ll.

body else's money, that they don't even have,they never con-l2.

tributed to it. think we ought to take a good look at studentsl3.

spending money, tax money, which theylve had no part in contributing.l4.

think it's a bad concept.l5.


Senator De Angelis. Senator Geo-Karis.l7.


Mr. President, and Ladies and Gentlemen of Ehe Senate.l9. '

have nok been very satisfied with the lack of speed that the2o. '

State Scholarship Commission operates. We have to wait for2l.

months to know whether a student is going to get a State scholar-22.

ship from them, before we give a legislative scholarship, and23.

don't think it could be any worse by putting a student on the24.

board and maybe it will improve matters, and thatfs why I'm25.

going to support the bill.26.


Senator Berning.28.

SENATOR BERNING:29.

Question of the sponsory please.30.


He indicates he will yield.32. .

SENATOR BERNING:33.

What age limitation iù there for khe skudent, and who appoints?

299

I P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

Senator Joyce.2.

SENATOR JEREMIAR JOYCE:3.

There's no age limitation.4.

SENATOR BERNING:

No age limit. There are some students they could go to6.

university at very tender age, and it would appear to me thaE7.

we are consequently making it possible for a very young perzon.8.

There's also this additional observation I'd like to make. There9.

are many of the people of this General Assembly who favor raisingl0.

the drinking age to'twenty-one, and as is likely the casel1.

with this commission, and others :is frequently there arel2.

dinners or luncheons and alcoholic beverages are served 'g'whatl3.

ar& .f.'/hat a paradoxical situation to put that student member

14.think perhaps we ought to reject this.


Senator Collins. Senator Rock...senator Bruce rather.l7.

SENATOR BRUCE:l8.

rise in support of this bill, Senator Berning the appointmentsl9.

are made by the.- His Excellency the Governor, and I don't20.

think he's going to appoint someone that's not extremely21.

competent to this board. It seems to me that Senator Joyce22.

put on the amendment. I think that it was discussed it says23.

that Ehey can not be a participant in the system. The bill has24.

been cleaned up. think a great deal...there's nothingo..absolutely25.

nothing wrong with putting a student member on the board, we've26.

added one student, one more public member, and maybe they can

help us out of some of the problems we created down at th*28. '

Scholarship Commission. I would urge an Aye vote.29.


senator Joyce may close the debate.3l.

SENATOR JEREMIAH JOYCE:32. .Well, very briefly. We're talking about studehts as if33. they are some kind of a different breed of people. I've been

300

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

around students at the college and university level fQr the

last...approximately Een years. Ilve found them Eo be as

desponsible as anyone else in our society. They xare voters,

they are taxpayers. don't see whaE the...the real problem

is here, and I would urge your favorable consideration at

this time.


Question shall House Bill 2310 pass. Those in favor

vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open. Have

al1 vote who wish? Have all voted who wish? Take the record.

On that question, the Ayes are 38, the Nays are 17. l Voting

PresenE. House Bill...2310r having received the constitutional

majority is declared passed. Rouse Bill 2321, Senator Geo-Karis.

Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:

House Bill 2321.



P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVTCKAS)

senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

Mr. Fresident, and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

House Bill 2321, amends the Public Utilities Act: so that

in utilities, public utilities that are...have a gross revenue

of a hundred thousand dollars a year, the Illinois...the Illinois

Commerce Commission can charge a fine to them up to one hundred

dollars per day. Thi: bill is necessary because we have public

utilities that are very small in revenue, some of them have

maybe five thousanddollars in revenud a year, and I put the

amendment on to...it was brought up in the committee, which heard

this bill, and I ask for your...respectful consideration.


there further discussion? If not, the question is,

shall House Bill 2321 pass. Those favor will vote Aye.

30l

2.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted

who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take khe record. The

Ayes are 54: the Nays are None Voting Present. House Bill

2321, having received the constikutional majority is declared

passed. House Bill 2322, Senator Geo-Karis. Read the bill,

Mr. Secretary. For what purpose does Senatbr Newhouse drise?

SENATOR NEWHOUSE:

just want to get inko the record, I punched the wrongbuttln on that, and couldn't get it changed back in time. Senator

Geo-Karis, apologize.


The record will so indicate.

SECRETARY:

Senator Bill 2322.

( Secretary reads title of bill )



Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:


The House Bill 2322, reiterates, updates, and expands, the

exemptions for the definition of a public utility engaged in

the transporation of persons or property. I put an amendment

on this bill at the request of Senator Joyce, which still will in-

clude grain barges or water carriers in the purview of the

jurisdiction of the Illinois Comm-erce Commission, and I ask

for your respectful consideration of this bill.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENTAOR SAVICKAS)

Is there further discussion? Senator De Angelis. No

further discussion? The queskion is, shall House Bil1...

Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Well, I'm sorry, but this seems to be moving- .we're moving

along real quick, but is khis in the exemption section? Are we exempting

l6.

l7.

18.

l9.

2ô.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

302


2 Senator Geo-Karis.


Hold on just a minute. Yes, we are exempting, and this4.

bill was heard in Ehe Agriculture Committee and Senator Joyce

was there, I believe Senator Knuppel was there too. This...6.

the Illinois Commerce Commission said that they don'E cover7.

some of these things, but still we felt that the watericarriers8.

should be covered by...inasmuch as they do...some of them do9.

operate intra-state.l0.

P RESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)ll.

Senator Bruce.12.

SENATOR BRUCE :

I would just point out to the members of any home ruleunit, that this bill says thatn .that the Illinois Commerce

l5.Commission cannot do anything on relation to taxi cabs, charter

l6.contract motor buses, anyone charging upon a time or distance

17. 'basiy,and I...it just seems to me that we are exempting nearly

l8.everyone that would be covered. Ambulances, anyone who regulates

l9.handicapped,vinvalid convalescent. It seems to me, frankly, that

20.unless I see a beEter explanation this seems to say that no one

21.in the State of Illinois can be regulated. These areqtall the

22.exceptions, and including motor carrier property, and, frankly

23.Ladies and Gentlemen that is al1 motor freight in the State of

24.Illinois, and I express a conflict, my father is in that business,

25.but seems to me to say that the Commerce Commission cannot

26.regulate freight haulers in this State, it's just...a poor way

27.to do it.

28.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

29.Senator Geo-Karis.

30.SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

3l.If T may read an explanation here, aSr carriers for example,

32.are regulaqed with Department of Transportation, and air commuter

vans, trucks, as spelled out now in Sect.ion 10.3, are already

303

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l6.

. ..in order to make it clear that these modes of trans-

protation are not public utilities, is spelled out, and I have

an explanation here that says, air carriers are regulated by

the Department of Transportation under the Air Carriers Act,

commuter vans have never been and are not now regulated, and

trucks under the Motor Carriers Property Law, are regulated

by the Commerce Commission. Now, if you'd like 1'11 be glad- to

take this out of the record, so that we can discuss it, because

I think you will find the bill in order, but it will take to

long to express it...to explain it now.


Take it out of the record. House Bill 2344, Senator

Coffey. Recycling Fund- - vehicle. Recycling Fund. Read the


SECRETARY:

House Bill 2344.

secretary reads Eitle of b'ill


19.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

(END OF REEL)

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

304

Reel #9


2. senator Coffey.

SENATOR COFFEY:

4. Yes, Mr. President and members of the Senate. Senator

5. Chew, this is the good bill, I don't know whether he's listening

6. or not. Anyway this amends an act concerning Unclaimed Abandoned

Vehicles Fund. It provides that the amount of the Vehicle Recycling

a. Fund in excess of one thousand dollars be transferred to the

: Road Fund instead of the Common School Fund which has been done

lc in the past by...by the executive of the- .of the State. And I'd

11 ask a favorable roll call. Be glad to answer any questions you

might have. The money...money is created for that purpose andl2.

transportation. It's in the past...hasn't been..-hasndt wentl3.

back into the Transportion Fund and we think it should and I've14.

asked for a favorable roll call.l5.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)l6.There further discussion? Senator Lemke.l7

.

SENATOR LEMKE:l8.

I rise in opposition to this proposal. Anybody that wantsl9.

to pay concrete instead of children in the State, shouldn't be20.

the Governor or shouldn't be an administrator or shouldn't be2l.

an elected official. The most important asset we have in22.

the State our children and we start taking money out of

Common School Fund to build concrete highways to please the

asphalt paving contractors who contribute to my- .our campaigns,25.

we got to have our heads examined. This is for the children26.

of the State. Tt ought to remain the way it is, that's what27.

itîs set up for, for the kids, not for the concrete pavers.28.


Senator Berman.30.

SENATOR BE RMAN:31.

I'm not sure I can improve upon the succinct...explanation32.

of Senator Lemke. We...we just talked- .see.-read in the newspapers33.

305

that there's been deals discussed for increasing Road Fund monies

2. and I didnlt see anything talking about increasing education funds.

And I dondt think that this should be...shifted. urge a No vote.


Senator Wooten.

6. SENATOR WOOTEN:

Senator Bermane let...let me examine this with you.

:. recall when this bill first went through. think it was right

:. after the big argument over the cut in edueation back in 475.

l;. And we yupported this to show that we were solid, but I think

1l. we a11 admitted that it had absolutely no financial impact at

12 all. But if you take the money out of this and put it into

la the...the School Fund, then the amount that went to schools

14 from General Revenue was simply reduced by that amount. That

15 you did not ehange the amo unt that went to schools at all, whereas

16 it went into the Road Fund, I believe it would have some impact.

And this may be one of ihose things where the headline says onel7.

thing, but the truth of the matter may be something entirely18.

opposite, but don't believe this actually impacts at all, doesl9.

not add one dollar to the schools. And as recall that was my20.

ob.jection to the bill at the time, but it went through because2l.

I think welre a11 feeling a little guilty of what we had to do22.

in order to survive financially in the State. Now, if Idm23.

wrong, somebody please correct me, but I believe that Ehis does24.

not add a single dollar to the school fund, it simply reduces25.

the amount that comes out of the General Revenue Fund for26.

schools.27.


Senator Chew.29.

SENATOR CHEW)30.

Mr. President, I rise to support this bill. Rightfully31.

it should be in the Road Fund and it shouldn'k have ever gone32. ..

to the Common School Fund. Itls dealing with automobiles, it33. .

306

1- i whatsoever with schools and we're just puttinghas no relat on

2. is money where it rightfully belongs. It does not decreaseth

3- any monies at a1l from the Common School Fund, any at all. So

whoever thinks that it does decrease, have got the information

incorrect. It does not take away frpm the Common School Fund.

6. It should be funded into the Road Fund, we got it out of the

7. committee with a unanimous vote. You...you weren't there, Senator.

8. well, with the exception of you. And I rise in #upport of it.

think we should vote this bill out.

l0. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

1l. Senator Demuzio.

l2. SENATOR DEMUZIO:

13. Well one...one question. The Calendar says a million

14 dollars and Senator. Coffey, you mentioned in excess of a Ehousand

l5. dollars. Which is it?


Senator Coffey.

l8. SENATOR COFFEY:

19 ...I1m sorry, Mr. President and Senator, it is one million

2o dollars. I apologize for that, in excess df one million dollars.

Which is normally, I think, there's a one and a half to two million2l.

22. dollars,extra dollarszeach year. I think it's returned into

23. that fund. It goes back into the Recycling Fund and only by

24. Executive Order is transferred.


26. Senator Demuzio. Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

28. Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate.

29. rise in support of Senator Lemke and Senator Berman's position.

30. This fund presently has three million, six hundred thousand dollars

3l. in it. If you pass the bill that goes into the Road Fund, two

32. million,six hundred thousand dollars. If you donlt pass the bill

3g. the two million six hundred thousand dollars goes in the school.

307

. . .Thatds...'it's just that simple, that's what you want to do.2. The two million six Moes to schools or the roads, you make the

3. decision.


5. Further discussion? If not, Senator.. .for the second

6. time, Senator Wooten.

7. SENATOR WOOTEN:

8. Will somebody please answer my question. want to know

9. if...senator Bruce..zsenator Bruce...

l0. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)

1l. Senator Carroll has indicated he will answer your question.

l2. SENATOR WOOTEN:

13 Yeah, all right.

14 SENATOR CARROLL:

15 A simple answer, Senator Wooten is that, this money

16 is going into the Common School Funds and is not there and has

17 to be replaced with General Revenue, that is an additional I

la burden on General Revenue to replace these loss dollars. So

19 if the ficure is two ahd a half million, that means we will have

20 to provide two and a half mi.llion more in General Revenue to

al pay for schools than what is currently being paid because we

22 are using this to supply that amount.


Senator Wooten.24.

SENATOR WOOTEN:25.

But it in no way adds one extra penny to the amount we26.

appropriate for schools, is that not correct?27.

SENATOR CARROLL:28.

It would reduce the amount we appropriate.29.

SENATOR WOOTEN:30.

No, wait a minute, thatfs not right. We appropriate so

much money for schools, that's the operative figure. Now if32. .

some of- .we take a couple hundred thousand from Recycling33.

308

!i

11

l. l1i

I Fund and the rest from General Revenue Fund, it still does

2 not alter that figure we appropriated. Is that not correct?

) SENATOR CARROLL:

We have the power to appropriate any dollar amount we4.

want. This would not change our power to appropriate. It5.

would change, however...no, it would change the source of the6.

funds, however, and that's what this does. The Recycling Fund7.

goes into General Revenue, into schools, which is instead of8.

taking General Revenue Funds for that purpose. Youfd have to9.lose some other General Revenue project to make up for it ifl0

.

you were going to keep a balanced budget.ll.


Senator Rock...I mean Senator Bruce.l3.

SENATOR BRUCE:l4. .

Well, just so we understand, it is true that the...commonl5.

School Fund, if they donlt have enough money, they go to Generall6.

Revenue and draw it down. So between those two funds, this bill17.

makes no difference. But the problem is this bill does not go18.

between those two funds. The bill says it goes to the Road Eundl9.

and we do not take money out of the Road Fund for schools. So20.

if it doesn't go to GRF and if it doesn't go to the School Fund,2l.

! it doesn't go to schools folks, it's just that simple. Once it22.

; goes in road, it stays in roads.l 23.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR SAVICKAS)(24.

:Is there further discussion? If not.. if not, SenatorI zs

Coffey may close the debate. '' 26.: SENATOR COFFEY:

27.:Mr. President and members of the Senate... If Senator

28. .Lemke is done talking now with his microphone off, Ild like

' 29.' to explain this vote...this bill. Now, I just heard Senator'

30..i Bruce say that money for education doesn't come from the

31 'Transportation Fund and if he votes for this, that's exactly

32.what he's doing because this money belongs in the Transportation

33.

309

l' j

bv /-''t. z )-s ,i, v?''F' ?Fund. Everybody talks about diversions when it comes to every-

2. thing else, but now they seem to think that it ought to go into

3. the Common School Fund for education. I voEe for the Education

4. Funding, this doesn't belong there and it shouldn't be put there.

5. And I would ask for a favorable roll call to put the money back

6. to where it came from. The highway uses...put this money into

7 this fund, stays into the Recycling Fund until what time

8 the Governor decides if he would choose ko do so. They justmentioned there's over three million dollars this fund and9

.

until he makes a decision to put it in another fund. I1d askl0.

for a favorable roll call on this bill.ll.


Channel 20 asks leave to film the proceedings. Is leavel3.

granted? Leave is granted. The question is shall House Billl4.

2344 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those opposed votel5.

Nay. The voting is open. Have all voted who wish? Have alll6.

voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayesl7.

are 34, the Nays are l7, none Voting Present. House Bill 2344,18.

Daving received the constitutional majority is declared passed.l9.

For what purpose does Senator Coffey arise?20.

SENATOR COFFEY:

I'd like to make a motion to reconsider the vote by22.

which this bill passed.23.


Senator Coffey moves to reconsider. Senator Chew moves25.

to Table. A1l those in favor indicate by saying Aye. The26.

Ayes have it, the motion is Tabled.27.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)28. .

A1l right. House Bill 2348, Senator Gitz. Senator29.

Gitz, no. House Bill 2352, Senator Nezda.. Read the bill,30.

Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:32.

House Bil1 2351.33. .34. (Secretary reads title of bill)

3l0

' ;!' j

i',(1!Il1

1. 3rd readinq of the bill.Z

2. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE) l

3. (Machine cut-offl...Nedza.

4. SENATOR NEDZA:

5. Thank you, Mr. President. What this bill does, it expands

6. the property tax exemption available in Cook County to academic

7. research and professional society's, institutes, associations

g. and organizations. Under current law, the organization must

9 be located on real estate of a school and must be either on

yô or adjacent to the school grounds or separated from the grounds

11 by public street, alley, sidewalk or other public way. The

property must be used for nonprofit purposes. This bill removesl2. .

the requirement that the organization be located on real estatel3.

of a school. Tt also allows the organization to qualify ifl4.

it is separated from the school grounds by a parkway as welll5.

as the other public ways mentioned. The purpose of the legislation,l6.

quite honesty, is to make a property tax exemption availablel7. .

for a piece of...a parcel of pro/erty owned and used by the18.American Bar Association, which is adjacent to then .universityl9. .

of Chicago. Inadvertently, what they want to do is...is to20.

erect a legal research library, which in effect, could be available21.

to the students who are law students at the UniversiEy of Chicago.22.

PRESIDINU OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)23.

: Senator McMillan.24.


' Mr. President and members of the Senate. I appreciate26.

' ' senator Nedza making it very clear what khe purpose of this is.27.

: And I think it is- .it should be noted that it is to provide28. .

for tax...for property tax exemption for the American Bar29.

l Foundation Building. I would merely say, if its purpose isI 30.

i untimately to provide something to make it available, if' 31.1' they want to grant it to the school perhaps then it should

. 32.have the right to be taz exempt, but I really question...we

33.3ll

1- . j

considered this very carefully in committee and.. .and I think had quite

2. a partisan roll call. It just does not seem that the American

3. Bar Foundation's Building on the Univertity of Chicago Campus

4. should really qualify for this tax exemption and I would urge

a No vote.

6. PRESIDING OFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)

7. Further discussion? Senator Nedza may close.

8. SENATOR NEDZA:

> Thank vou, Mr. President. Although the intent is to

1c. provide M ex> ion % this single instance, there 4re no

1z known other conceivable other properties that would fall into'

i te ory. 1...1 hope that...l try to be Mark it inadvertentlyla th s ca g p

whaE we can be doing is saving the taxpayerls of...of this Statel3.

a considerable amount of dollars because of the fact that thel4. .

resources to my understanding is to be made available to thel5.

students, so in effect, here is where private industry would be16.

erecting something and saving the taxpayer's a considerable17.

amount of money. urge you a favorable roll call.l8.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)l9.

The question is shall House Bill 2352 pass. Those in20.

favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting2l.

is open. (Machine cut-offl- .voted who wish? Have all voted22.

who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 36,23.

the Nays are 20# 2 Voting Present. House Bill 2352 having24.

received the required constitutional majority is declared passed.2b.

House Bill 2355, Senator Carroll. Read the bill,Mr. Secretary,26. .

please.27.

SECRETARY:28.

House Bill 2355.29.

ag (Secreàary reads tikle of bill)


PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)32.

Senator Carroll.33.

SENATOR CARROLL:

2. Thank yourMr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the

3. Senate. This is a de minimis bill that comes to us from the

4. Comptroller's Office so that they would no longer have to

5. maintain on their records what agencies have told them are,

effect, uncollectable accounts where the amounts are

7. small and it's costing more to keep these suppossed debts

8. in existence sometimes as long as twenty-five years than

9 the amount that could ever be collected. This is a request

lo of the Comptrolleryby amendment allows them to set up some

11 rules also and the minimun amounts in which he may have to

2 seek to collect a debt from someone with whom they are1 .

going to process a voucher and I would answer any questionsl3.

and ask for a favorable roll call.l4.


Is there discussion? The question...senator Gro tberg.l6.


Question of the sponsor.18.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)l9.Indicates he will yield. Senator Grotberg.20

.

SENATOR GROTBERG:2l.

Would this forgiveness procedure include, Senator Carroll,22.

the...the unpaid child support for parents that are passed23.

through to Public Aid, often in small amounts...but are, would24.

they be included? Would they be totally wrikten off?2b.


Senakor Carroll.27.

SENATOR CARROLL:28.

Thërels not an easy yes or no to that because the process29.

of the bill requires the Attorney General to approve the transfer30.

from the agency to the Comptroller and then a joint, in effect,3l.

a joint approval that all reasonable means have been made to32. .

collect it within usually a three year period and that...that33.

3l3

i1ki.!i1

'ji

t. after al1 reasonable means have been made, it is basically un-

2. collectable and then they can write it off. It does not, however,

3. extinguish the debt. It just requires them to no longer have4. to carry the paper work in the Comptrollerfs office to carry

5. it forward. The Attorney General, by law, would still ha've a

6. responsibility to attempt to collect the debt.

7. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)

g Further discussion? The question is shall House Bill

9 2355 pass. those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed vote

Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have alll0.

voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayesll.

are 55, the Nays are none, none Voting Present. Senate Billl2.

.- House Bill 2355, having received the required constitutionall3.

majority is declared passed. House Bill 2357, Senator Carroll.l4.Read the bill, Mr. Secretary, please.l5

.

SECRETARY:l6.

Hous: Bill 2357. 'l7.

(Secretary reads title of bill) .l8.



Senator Carroll.2l.

SENATOR CARROLL:22.

Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the23.

senate. This is another request from the Comptroller and deals, 24.

with the area of commodities and equipment to exclude from the25.

definition of commodities, EDP, telecommunications et cetera,26.

raising certain minimums and maximums in purchases of these27.

various.- lines. It's an attempt by the Comptroller to make28.

' the system more accountable and the.- allàtate agencies are29

.

i supm M ve ofthis change. I would ask for a favorable roll call. 'j 30.1 PRESIDING OFFICE R: (SENATOR BRUCE)31

.

Is there discussion? The question is shall House Bill32.

2357 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay.33.34. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have a1l voted I

g14 1I

I' . (

who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 56,

2. the Nays are none, none Voting Present. House Bill 2357 having

3. received the required constitutional majority is declared passed.4. House Bill 2358, Senator Carroll. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary,

5. please.

6. SECRETARY:

7 House Bill 2358.

g (Secretary reads title of bill)


PRESIDING OEFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)l0.

Senator Carroll.ll.

SENATOR CARROLL:l2.

Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen ofl3.

the Senate. This- .allows the.- yeah, my time was up already...14.

this bill allows the Comptroller to prescribe certain informationl5. .

to be contained in contracts that are sent to him under tw'ol6.

instances. Basically, those are one.- one liabilities overl7.

five hundred dollars and the other is professional or artisticl8.

contracts in excess of twenty-five hundred. These contractsl9.

have to be... Ask for a favorable roll call.20.

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)2l.

The question is shall House Bill...is there discussion?22.

The question is shall House Bill 2358 pass. Those in favor vote23.

Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted24.

who wish? Have a1l voted who wi#h? Take the record. On that25.

question the Ayes are 57, the Nays are none, none Voting Present.26.

House Bill 2358, having received the constitutional majority is27.

declared passed. House Bill 2360, Senator Carroll. Read the28.

bil1...bi1l, Mr. Secretary, please.29.

SECRETARY:30.

House Biïl 2360.


3rd reading of the bill.33.34.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)

3l5

. . y . ..A ,b ï z.t'î j.t(-5

t ,a o,c !.- x .q .(.13 7- -zt k .(pj' Ark

Senator Carroll.

2. SENATOR CARROLL:

). Welre movin'g up on each vote. I'd ask for 58 affirmative

4. votes.


6. The...question is shall House Bill 2360 pass. Those in

7 favor vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay. The voting is open.

g Have a1l voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Have a11

9 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes

1: are 58, the Nays are none, none Voting Present. House Bill

yl 2360, having receiving the constitutilnal majority is declared

passed. Senator Carroll, you went from 55 to 56 to 57, 58.12.

Right. House Bill 23...2367, Senator Rupp. Read the bill,13.

Mr. Secretary, please.l4.

SECRETARY:l5.

House Bill 2367.16.



PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)

Senator Rupp.

SENATOR RUPP:

Thank you, Mr. President. I1d like the same roll call.22.



23...1s there, Senatcr Rupp is recognized to explain the bill.25.

SENATOR RUPP:' 26.Yes, thank you. This is a Voluntary Hea1th Service

27.Plans on organizations of the medical, khe hospital, the dental

28.and the nursing and other health...related services. The present

29.Statu*e requires each of these Health Service Plans to be managed

30.by a Board of Trustees. The board was supposed to have seven

31.persons, at leask thirty percent were to be physicians. One of

32.the changes is to provide that the thirty percent requirement

33.

316

1

i1. can now be fulfilled by either licensed physicians or dentists. 1

i12. The current law also requires that they put a schedule of $1

3. rates. They can now put down a formula base in addition 'to l1!4

. that if they want. There's an amendment put on by Senator Berman i1

5. that adds a subscriber and makes the subscriber also any class 116

. of a person eligible under Article 5-2 of the Illinois Public 1

7. Aid Code. If there are any questions, I'd be glad to answer

g them. k* l

9 PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)

Is there discussion? The question is shall House Billl0.

2367 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay.1l.

The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have a11 votedl2.

who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 55,l3.

the Nays are none, none...l Voting Present. House Bill 2367,14.

having received the required constitutional majority is declaredl5.

passed. House Bill 2373, Senator Weaver. Read the bill, Mr.l6.

Secretary, please. .l7.

SECRETARY:l8.

House Bill 2373.l9.


13rd reading of the bill.2l.


Senator Weaver.23.

SENATOR WEAVER:24.

Thank you, Mr. President. House Bill 2373 does three things.25.

one, it raises to ten thousand dollars the amount that can be26. ;

. Iloaned to officers, directors and employees of a State bank.27

. i1Two, fees paid for supervision shall be paid into a Bank and Trust l28

. ICompany Fund to pay for the operations of the Commissionezds Office.29

.

i And number three, a loan of four hundred and fifty thousand dollars, 30.

L' is made to this fund wxth the provision that it be paid back at3l.

the rate of a hundred and fifty thousand dollars uMtil itîs paid32. l

back over a three year period. If there's any questions, Ifll33.

I. 3l7 j

1!

Aaarz ./6 -7J - 2

be happy to try to answer.

2* SIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)PRE

3* Is there discussion? The question is shall House Bill

4* 2373 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay.

The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish? Have a1l voted

6* who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 53,

7* the Nays are 1, 4 Voting Present. House Bill 2373, having

g '. received the required constituEional majority is declared

9. passed. House Bill 2377, Senator Maitland. Read the bill, Mr.

10. Secretary, please.

ll. SEC RETARY:




l5. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)

l6. Senator Maitland.

l7. SENATOR MAITLAND:

l8. Thank y6u, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the

l9. Senate. This is a Department of Conservation Bill and...wants

2o. to raise the license fees- .in the department it has not been

2l. raised-..for over twenty years and there's a Xsseility of raising22. in excess of two hundred thousand dollars. And this is in

23. concert with their appropriation bill.


25. Is there discussion? Senator Geo-Karis.

26. SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

Just...just one question on both bills. This applies2a. to commercial fishermen, don't.- doesn't it? Not to the

29. fellow who's got a little row boat and what have you.

3o. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)

3l. Senator Maitland.

32. SENATOR MAITLAND:

33 Well, the- .the private licenses were raised a year ago

31*8

I

t

1'j

1. and yesp in...in parts...in a part of this bill that is a factor,

2. yes. -I

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE) 13. ,

j4 Is there further discussion? The question is shall House j

5 Bill 2377 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed vote

6 Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted who wish? Have all

voted who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes7.

are 54, the Nays are 3, none Voting Present. House Bill 2377,8.

having received the required constitutional majority is declared9.passed. Hcuse Bill 2378, Senator Maitland. Read the bill,l0

.

Mr. Secretary, please.1l.

SEC RETARY:12.

House Bill 2378.l3.



PRESIDING OPFICER: (SENATOR BRUCE)l6.

Senator Maitland.l7.


Thank you, Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of thel9.

Senate. This is the bill, Senator...senator Geo-Karis that20.

addresses the point that you just mentioned to me. I would2l.

appreciate a favorable roll call.22. . .



2378 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed vote Nay.25.

The voting is open. Have all voEed who wish? Have a1l voted26.

who wish? Take the record. On that question the Ayes are27.

52, the Nays are 5, none Voting Present. House Bill 2378,28.

having received the required constitutional majority is29.

declared passed.30.

PRESIDENT:. 3l.

Top of page 19 on the Order of House Bills 3rd reading,32.

is House Bill 2410. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.33.

L3l9'

j' (!

l:

' ' j

SECRETARY:

2. House Bill 2410.

3. (secretary reads title of bill)


PRESIDENT:

6. senator Bruce.

7. SENATOR BRUCE:

8. Thank...thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate.

9. This is one in a series of bills proposed by the Comptroller

lû. which this particular bill relates to the use of contractual

1l. services money for professional services...for personal services

12. rather. And just says that any agency of the State of Illinois

13. Ehat receives a personal services line item shall not use

l4. contractual services line item to hire individuals. It clarifies

15. and corrects what have been some abuses in the State Finance

16. Act. And I would ask for a favorable roll call.

l7. PRESIDENT:

1g Is there any discussion? Senator Graham.

l9. SENATOR GRAHAM:

This bill had some little confrontation, not too much

21 in the Committee on Executive, came out six to three. had

22 some concern about iE, I expressed at that time. I still have

23 some concerns about it and frankly, Senator Bruce, think it's

24 a...maybe a good bill to you, but I can't vote for it.

as PRESIDENT:

a6 Any further discussion? If not, the question is shall

7 House Bill 24 10 pass . Those in f avo r will vote Aye o those opposed2 .

will vote Nay . The voting is open . Have al1 voted who wish?2 8 .

Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record . On that question the2 9 .

Ayes are 37 , the Nays are 16 , 3 Voting Present . House Bill 2 4 10 ,3 0 .

having received the constitutional majority is declared passed.31.

On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, House Bill 2411. Read32.


320

1. SECRETARY:

2. House Bill 2411.

3. (Secretary reads Eitle of bill)


5. FRESIDENT:

6. Senator Sangmeister.

7 SENATOR SANGMEISTER:

g Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. This

bill, as Senator Bruce indicated on the last one, was introduced i9. I

iat the request of the Offiee of the Auditor General and the jl0.Comptroller to increase the accountability over the individuals i

l1. :hired by State agencies on a contractual basis. Now, what this12

.

bill does, is it adds that every State agency including electedl3.

(State Constitutional Officers that wiM es to enter into a contractl4

.

in excess of ten thousand dollars for consultant services, mustl5.

file with the Comptroller various documents. For example, al6.

copy of a request for a proposal, a copy of a juptificationl7.

memorandum and et cetera. The intent of this bill is to forcel8.ageneies to show need for consultant services. The appropriations

l9.process and the audit indicates some questions of justification20

.

and it was recommended that going through the step by skep procedure2l.

outlined in the bill would bring about contractual services when22.

need is apparent ànd in house services cannot perform the same23.

work. Any questions, wedll try to answer them, if not, we request24.

a favorable roll.25.' PRESIDENT :

26.! Is there any discussion? Senator Geo-Karis.

27.SENATOR GEO-KARIS:28.

Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I29.

too speak in favor of this bill. The time has come for this bill30.

because I can redember in my first term in office in the House31.

there were many contracts for contractual services. I can remember32.

individuals having two and three contracts in different agepcies33. .

. . a21

and I think that it's high time we have them account for it

2. because. - taxpayers are entitled to know how their money is

3. being spent.

4. PRESIDENT:

5. Any further discussion? Senator Savickas.

6. SENATOR SAVICKAS:

7. I have a few questions of the sponsor if he will yield.

8. PRESIDENT:

9 Indicates he will yield. Senator Savickas.

lc. SENATOR SAVICKAS;

11 One, is this providing info rmation for the appropriation

12 staffs that we have the information thatls already available?

y3 And another question, does this affect the General Assembly:

the appropriations for the President and the Speakerls Officel4. .

and the Mincrity and Minority Leaderrs Office?l5.

PRESIDENT:l6.

Senator Sangmeister.l7.

SENATOR SANGMEISTER:l8.

Answering in reverse order, it says that every State agency,

included elected State constitutional officers and I presume

that that would cover this...this General Assembly as well, Senator

i k And the other qzestion is yes, there are certainSav c as. ,22.

memorandums that do have to qo to the Senate and House Appropriation23.

committees. And 1...1 really donîK...T...T think that's additional24.

information, not what they already have.25.

PRESIDENT:26.

Further discussion? Senator Rhoads.27.

SENATOR RHOADS:28.

Senator Sangmeister, I'm...I'm not sure youlre correct in29.

stating that the Minority Leader and Speaker of the House and .so30.

forth Kould be included if...if they donlt fall under the Constitutional

definition of.- of State Constitutional Officers. Are...are you32.

sure about that?33.

322

1. PRESIDENT:

Senator Sangmeister.

SENATOR SANGMEISTER:

4. stated, I...we1l, to be very honest I am not that positive,

5 no. It seems to be all encompassing, but they may not. I really

6 don't know the answer Eo that.

PRESIDENT:

There any further discussion? Senator Sangmeister may8.

close.9.

SENATOR SANGMEISTER:10.

Well, thank you. This is an effort in this whole seriesll.

of bills to upgrade the whole appropriations process and account-12.

ability of people who are putting out contracts for the Statel3.

of Illinois. Think good legislation and would request a14.

favorable roll.l5.

PRESIDENT:l6.

The question is shall House Bill 2411 pass. Those in favorl7.

will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open.l8.

Have all voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take thel9.

record. On that question the Ayes are 42#the Nays are 2 Voting2D.

Present. House Bill 2411, having received the constitutional2l.

majority is declared passed. On the Order of House Bills 3rd22.

reading, House Bill 2412. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.23.

SECRETARY :

House Bill 2412.2b.



PRESIDENT:28.

Senator Sangmeisker.29.

SENATOR SANGMEISTER:3û.

Mr. President, members of the Senate. Very briefly, what3l.

this House Bill 2412 amends the Illinois Purchasing Act to32. .

rùquire persons contracting to provide consultant services33.

323

i

i

!!:

. to State agencies to disclose whether or not a subcontract 1il2. will be used. Currently, many contractors farm out their I:

3. work and by so doing, circumvent many of the contractual 1

4. services filing requirements. If contract- .if contractors

5. are required to file, it is only logical that subcontractors

6. be required to file also. The Comptroller has said that

7. he cften receives O o iries on work performed by a contractor

g. only to find out the contractor is no where to be found and

9 the State files because he, in fact, was a subcontractor.

lo So, it will require subcontractors to file or disclose.

11 PRESIDENT:

la Is Ehere any discussion? Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAHAM:l3.

Mr. President, this is another one of honest John Matijevich'sl4.

bills. It came out of the Committee on Executive ten to one. Wel5.

had a pretty good hearing on these bills and I support the measure.16.

ù 7 PRESIDENT:l . ,

Further discussion? Senator Savickas.l8.


Well, once again, I just question when ke give contracts20.to a contractor that the bids for a job with the State, he's2l.

the one that's responsible, hels the one that provides performance i22. ibonds and he's the one that should be made to answer. I think this23

. I: is another VfrV + = t on the contractor's right to do business 'i24

.

in the State. I1m not a lawyer, but I1m sure that there might25.

i be some legal questions about this, whether it was his contract26.

' or-..what if he doesn't have a subcontractor at that moment, he j27.!

intends to dc the work himself. What if after he gets the contract, i28. . i

Ihe finds it more feasible because of other commitments the sub-29. i

icontractor work out. 1...1 just don't believe in this concept.30

.

, PRESIDENT:. 31.Is there any further discussion? Senator Geo-Karis.32

.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:)3.

'

324' 1

1.. I1

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

Sorry I have to disagree with my colleague. believe in

3. the.- concept because I've gone through some of these things

4. and I find that certain subcontractors they use more often

5. than others and I think it should be spread around to help

6. other people too. I speak in favor of the bill.

7. PRESIDENT:

g. Any further discussion? Senator Sangmeister may close.

9 SENATOR SANGMEISTER:

10 ROl1 call.

PRESTDENT:

The question is shall House Bill 2412 pass. Those inl2.

favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The votingl3.

is open. Have all voted who wish? Have all voted who wish?l4.

Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 37# the Naysl5.

are 13, none Voting Present. House Bill 2412 having receivedl6. '

the constitutional majority is declared passed. On the Orderl7.

of House Bills 3rd reading is House Bill 2413. Read the bill,18.

Mr. Secretary.l9.

SECRETARY:20.

House Bill 2413.


3rd reading of the bilï.23.

PRESIDENT:24.

Senator Sangmeister.2b.

SENATOR SANGMEISTER:26.

Thank you, Mr. President, members of the Senate. This27.

is the lask one in this series and this is requested by the28.

State Comptroller because House Bill 2413 extends the time29.

for filing of contracts with the Comptroller's Office' sinc: five30.

days to fifteen days.- or 'such time period as the Comptroller31.

shall determine wikhin a maximum of thirty days. Apparently,32.

the present five day filing time absolutely unworkable and33.

325

no one's complying with it anyway. The Comptroller feels that

2. we ought to extend that to fifteen days and allow him to give a

3. maximum extension to thirty days and that's what the bill does.

4. PRESIDENT:

Is there any discussion? If not, the question is shall

6. House Bill 2413 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those

7. opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted

8. who wish? Have a1l v6ted who wish? Take the record. On that

9. question the Ayes are 55, the Nays are none, none Voting Present.

10. House Bill 2413, having received a constitutional majority isdeclared passed. Senator Coffey on 2414. On the Order of

l2. House Bills 3rd readihg is House Bill 2414. Read tie bill, Mr.

13. Secretary.

14. SECRETARY:




l8. PRESIDENT:

lq senator coffey.

ao. SENATOR COFFEY:

21 Yes, Mr. President and members of the Senate. This bill

22 amends the Civil Administration Code of Illinois to increase

23 the Department of DOT1s leasing authority from five to twenty

years. The bill will place a division of DOT in a better position24.

a5 to obtain a fair market lease fee...on State owned lands. In

the past prospective lessors sometimes have difficulty in26. ,

justifying substantial investments on a five year limitation.27.1'11 be glad to answer any queétions you might have.28

.

PRESIDENT:29.

Any discussion? Senator Savickas.3û.

SENATOR SAVICKAS:3l.

Yes, Mr. President and members of the Senate. On these32. .

long term leases we ran into that problem with the Standard Oi133.

326

Building on Michigan Avenue. I think...l think...when we talk

2. about signing up twenty year leases with a Legislative Body

). that meets every year and each year sets different priorities,

4. I think welre just extending it a little too far...those are

5. just my comments.

6. FRESIDENT:

7 Further discussion? Senator Maragos.

g SENATOR MARAGOS:

: A...are...are there any precautions in this bill, Senator

Coffey that would say that if you have a twenty year lease,l0.

that there would be graduating rental income coming from these leases?11.

Or is it going to be.-one rental for twenty years/especially in thisl2.

inflationary period?13.

PRESIDENT:l4.

Senator Coffey.l5.

SENATOR COFFEY:l6.

As I understand from the department, that'll be negotiatedl7.

at the time of the contraet where...how it will be set-up as18.

we would negotiate in any other lease.

PRESIDENT :

Senator Maragos.2l.

SENATOR MARAGOS:22.

have fears with these long term leases. Within a five23. .

year period, we can take some inflationary hedging, but when24.

you have a twenty year lease, somebody signs in today and if25.

we have a 1990, it would look...appear...the rent will be so26.

great, I have some questions about it and if you could put an27.

amendment that would have to have graduating rental.- income28.

coming in# then I would support it. But as it stands now, I29.

have some problems.30.

PRESIDENT :3l.

Further discussion? Senator Hall.32.

SENATOR HALL:33.34. Will the sponsor yield for a question?

PRESIDENT:

2. Indicates...

) SENATOR HALL:

4 Senator Coffey, why.x..why do you want to give twenty years?

I mean what's the purpose of giving twenty years, would you mind

telling that.6.

PRESIDENT:7.

Senator Coffqy.8.

SENATOR COFFEY:9.

Yes, I...senator Hall, earlier I had made a statement10.

that...perspective lessors in Ehe past, for instance, if they

intend to put a structure on any of these premises they can'tl2.

really regain their investment on that property over five years,l3.so they're asking for a longer lease. If a structure of some14.sort is erected upon that State property, twenty years they can...

l5. .they can justify the investment.l6

.

PRESIDENT:l7.

Further discussion? Senator Gro tberg.l8. '


Well, just.- l just think that if we can afford twenty20.

year leases, we should...be able to sell the land and get out21.

from under it. The State doesn't have to sit on any of its22.

land for twenty years if it's excess enough to lease out.23.

PRESIDENT:24.

Further' discussion? Senator Sommer.2b. .

SENATOR SOMMER:26.

Mr. President and members of the...it would appear to më27.

that if this bill passed and became law, they could be signing28.

leases that would last until the year 2000 and if the deal was29.

a bad deal, we would have to eat that deal for twenty years.30.

Itfs unlike a situation like the Standard Oi1 Building where31. '

we could get out of it presumably because we have to appropriate32.

the monies. In this situation it's gone, once the deal is made,33.34. it is gone. It would seem to me this is not the best idea in

328

(# .lA1.

/,k- -'db

s pye

the world.

PRESIDENT:

Qs there any lteh-r discussion? Senator Coffey may close

the debate.

5. SENATOR COFFEY:

6. Well, Mr. President and members of the Senate. To answer

7. some of the questions or some of the statements that's just

8. been made. Here before me, have another reason for- .the

9 sale...the land not being for sale. Nearly al1 the...the land

1o. cannot be sold either because it's held in trust, people of

lz this date are required for...flowage rights for sewage, operation

12 maintenances, repairs and other things. Therefs...therels reasons

why this land can't be sold, there's adjacent lands to it.l3.

That's the justification by the Department of Waterways, forl4.

wanting this bill. think it's a reasonable concept. I canl5.

see was an investor that I certainly would invest moneyl6.

on land on a five year contract, this just gives 'them that right tonegotiate those types contracts on...on land that doesn'tl8

.

have a facility or a building on at this time. I think it wouldl9.

be different than this Standard Oi1 Building, that was a building

that was already erected ùpon ent property. And I'd ask for a2l.

favorable roll call.22.

PRESIDENT:23.

The question is shall House Bill 2414 pass. Those in24. .

favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting25.

is open. Have al1 voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish?26k

Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 10# the Nays27.

are none Voting Present. House Bill 2414, having failed28.

to receive a constitutional majority is declared lost. 2416,29.Senator Netsch. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading, House30

.

Bill 2416. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:32.House Bill 2416.33

.

2.

3.

4.

329



PRESIDENT:

Senator Netsch.

5. SENATOR NETSCH:

6. Thank you, Mr. President. This bill and the next one were

7. recommendations df the Joint Committee on Long Term State Debt.

8. The major parts of the package have already passed b0th houses,

9. although these bills are also an essential part of it. They

lû. are designed to give the Legislature more information and more

lz opportunity to oversee all of the long term debt obligations

12 of the State. This bill, House Bill 2416, requires the Bureau

la of the Budget annually to prepare a three year plan of a11

anticipated long range capital expenditures and to make thatl4.

information available to the Legislature through the Illinoisl5.

Economic and Fiscal Commission and the respective appropriation'sl6. -

committees.

PRESIDENT:l8.

Is there any discussion? Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAHAM:20.

Will the sponsor yield for a question?2l.

PRESIDENT:22.

Indicates she will yield. Senator Graham.23.

SENATOR GRAHAM:24.

I think it was brought out in committee, Senator Netsch.2b.

Let's do it again. Want to know what...do we know what the26.

cost of this program will be? Have any idea?27.

PRESIDENT:28.

Senator Netsch.29.

SENATOR NETSCH:30.

The only real cost is a cost that I1m aware of, was a...a3l.

cost that would be added to 6he Illinois Economic and Fiscal32.

Commission in terms of this new responsibilityqthat they have33.

t.

2.

3.

4.

330

and that is already included in their budget. I've forgotten

what the exact...'figure was, but it was included in their

3. budget for this Fiscal Year.

4. PRESIDENT:

5. Senator Graham.

6. SENATOR GRXHAM:

There was some'discussion about additional employees too,

8. were there not...was there not?

9 PRESIDENT:

l0. Senator Netsch.

1l. SENATOR NETSCH:

12 Yesy and again that is already been accounted for in this

year's budget for the Illinois Economic and Fiscal Commission.

14 And I assume that amount is still there.

15 PRESIDENT:

16 Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAHAM:17.

18 You.- you mean they Ye cn board before you pass the bill,

right?l9.

PRESIDENT:20.

Senator Netsch.21.

SENATOR NETSCH:22.

I'm not sure that they are on board, but it was a part of

their appropriation for Fiscal Year ,70. It was not a sub -24.

stantial amount nor a substantial number of employees. I...I'm25.

sorry, I don't have that information in front of me right nok.26.

My recollectiön is it was about two additional employees. It27.

was not an overwhelming number.28.

PRESIDENT:29.

Senator Carroll.30.

SENATOR CARROLL:3l.

As recall it, Senator Graham, in more current response32.

to your question, I think it was in the neighborhood of fifty33.

331

i

;.E

i

il

or sixty thousand dollars that was added to the Economic dI1. and Fiscal's budget to take on this responsibility. The $

2. confusion may be that at one time, this long term debt committee

) was talking about adding a whole new commission or a huge

4 division within a commission that could have been ten or

5 twenty employeesk That was scrapped and in lieu thereof,

6 you're talking about maybe a couple employees, and I think

it was maybe fifty,or sixty thousand.7.

PRESIDENT:8.

Further discussion? Senator Maragos.9.

SENATOR MARAGOS:l0.

I would also like to state to the gentlemen who arell.

questioning this that the commission has appointed Mr . Kuntzman12.

who...Dave Regner, who was the vice-chairman wanted tol3.apooint, take charce of that area and he's coinl to do an

l4. - - - œ .in-depth study of this whole Capital Development Program so we

l5.can have some handle on the BOB aspects of it and I askl6

.

for your adoption.l7.

PRESIDENT:18.

Further discussion? Senator DeAngelis.l9.)

SENATOR DeANGELIS:20. .

Question of the sponsor.2l.

' PRESIDENT: '22.

Indicates sheîll yield. Senator DeAngelis.. 23.' SENATOR DeANGELIS:' 24.; ' Does this mean that Emergency Disaster Relief will have

2b..1 to predict how many storms we have?

26.' PRESIDENT:

27.' senator Netsch.

28.SENATOR NETSCH:

29.If that comes within the realm of Capital expenditure, yes.

' 30.:1' PRESIDENT : '' 3l.

Further discussion? Senator Moore. '32.

SENATOR MOORE :33.

. 332l

' . j

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate.

2. think all we're doing here is creating another little bureaucracy

) '. to go into a long range Capital Expenditure Plan. We are

4. in Session on an annual basis, we appropriate money every

5. year to run State government and I don't personally see

6. any need for this bill. I think al1 wefre going to do is

7. to put people to work and have them guess as to what might

8. happen in the future, might not happen. And as long as we're

9. here and we have...we have-..the Fiscal Commission et cetera,

l0. whyzl see nothing wrong, you know. just don't know

ll. why we need this bill.

l2. PRESIDENT:

13 Further discussion? Senator Wooten.

14 SENATOR WOOTEN:

Thank you, Mr. President. We talked this over pretty

16 well in Executive Committee and determined that what wedre

17 trying to do is just get a handle on long term debt. The'la amount of money involved is not much. Everyone involved

19 seems to agree this is a good idea and it came out with a

ac fourteen to nothing vote, b0th bills. I still don't see

21 anything wrong with either one of these.

22 PRESIDENT:

2a Any further discussion? Senator Shapiro.

SENATOR SHAPIRO:24.

Well, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the25.

Senate. It seems to me thak a plan of this...this sort,26.

we're just locking ourselves into future Capital expenditures27.

that, at some point in time, down the road, may not be relevant28.

to the times. In other wordsz a long range plan involving29.

Capital Development two years from now could be absolutely30.

obsolete. I think what we should be doing is determining3l.

how many bonds we have sold, how many bonds that we have32.

appropriated, new Capital Development projects in this33.

333

particular Session. How much we have obligated and what we

think the financial obligations of the State s'hould be.

3. think that type of plan would be a feasible one. But this

4. type, I think we should object to and vote the bill down.

5. PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Rhoads.

7. SENATOR RHOADS:

g. Obviously; rise in support of this bill. It is a

9 very reasonable approach. Long kerm spending is something

lc we need to get a handle one. This is one way to do it. It's

11 a good bill, I'd...most of the objections I have heard so far

12 just simply donlt hold any water. I urge an Aye vote.

PRESIDENT:l3.

Any further discussion? Senator Carroll.l4.

SENATOR CARROLL:15.

Just to say, I know it's the second time. I kotally agreel6.

with the comments of Senator Shapiro. I wholeheartedly endorsel7.

him, that's what the bill does and that's why we should bel8.

voting Aye.

PRESIDENT:2û.

Further discussions? Any further discussion? Senator

Netsch, you wish to close?22.

SENATOR NETSCH:23.

Just briefly, it does not lock any of us into a future24.

Capital program, Senator Shapiro, that's very important.25.

It provides only the oversight function which is what we26.

have bèen lacking in the General Assembly. And not only27.

did the members of the committee feel that this was quite28. .

critical, but the Auditor General, who is our guardian in29.

the Legislature, has also been strongly supportive of this30.

package of legislation.31.

PRESIDENT:32. ..

The question is shall House Bill 2416 pass. Thcse in33.

'

34. favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The

334

voting is open. (Machine cut-offl...voted who wish? Have2. a11 voted who wish? Take the record

. On that basis the Ayes

3* are the Nays are none Voting Present. House Bill

4. 2416, having received the constitutional majorkty is declared

5. passed. On the Order of House Bills 3rd reading is House Bill

6. 2417. Read the bill, Mr.. Secretary.

7. SECRETARY:

8. House Bill 2417.


1û. 3rd reading of the bill.

ll. PRESIDENT:

l2. Senator Netsch.

13. SENATOR Netsch:

l4. Thank you, Mr. President. This bill is indeed a companion

l5. to the rest of the package that has passed. It involves

16. primarily the various revenue bonding agencies and requires

l7. that they report information to the Illinois Economic and

18 Fiscal Commission so that that informauon also can be part

of a long term debt oversight function, khich now will be

performed.

PRESIDENT:

There any discussion? Senator Berning.

23. SENATOR BERNING:

24. Question of the sponsor, please.

25. PRESIDENTJ

26 Indicates she'll yield, Senator Berning.

27. SENATOR BERNING:

28. My question really is apropos of both biàls, as a

a9. matter of fact, Senator Netsch. Just for information, will

30 the General Assembly still have the final determination

on any Capital Development proposal or are we beinge by

aa inference or otherwise, locked into something here?

PRESIDENT:33.

335

1. Senator Netsch.

SENATOR NETSCH:

The answer is absolutely no, we are not being locked in.

We will have the final word. That could not be removed from

us in any event. The principal purpose of the whole series

of bills is that we will then have more information so that

7. we can make more rational decisions about our long term

8. debt program. But in no way would we be locked in.

9. PRESIDENT:

l0. Any further discussion? If not, the question is shall

ll. House Bill 2417 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those

12. opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a1l voted

l3. who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record. On

l4. that question the Ayes are 43, the Nays are 12, none Voting

l5. Present. House Bill 2417, having received the constitutional

l6. majority is declared passed. On the Order of House Bills 3rd17. teading, House Bill 2420. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

18. SECRETARY:


2o. (Secretary reads title of bill)


22. PRESIDENT:

Senator Vadalabene.


2s. Yes, thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate.

26 House Bill 2420 increases the salaries of the regional superintendent

27 and assistant superintendent of Schools and 1111 appreciate

2a. a favorable vote.

29. PRESIDENT:

3ô. There any discussion? Senator Knuppel.

al. SENATOR KNUPPEL:

aa I just want to say one thing. I1m going to vote for this

bill, buE one of the most volatile letters I received after the

3.

4.

5.

6.

336

1.

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

pay raise last winter was from an assistant superintendent

of Regional Services. He had one oar out of the water,

thihk.

PRESIDENT:

Any further discussion? Senator Martin.

SENATOR MARTIN :

I...there have been a couple of bills I've actually

a introduced to help regional superintendents. So I ask you

to believe there's not a bias in this at all. But I would9.

hav: to tell you that that is an office than even when theyl0.

try, doesn't do that much, Ifm sorry. And to éive themll.'a pay raise is absolutely ridiculous. It's a...bureaucratic12

.

bumbling at its best in general and even when they're good

people, it is a...in the main, a bookeeping office to some

extent and to give pay raises, think, to this particular

office is- .would not be legislatively responsible.l6.

PRESIDENT:l7.

There any further discussion? The question is shall18.

House Bill 2420 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Thosel9.

opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have al1 voted20.

who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On2l.

that question the Ayes are 39, the Nays are 16, 2 Voting22.

Present. House Bill 2420, having received a constitutional23.

majority is declared passed. 2436, Senator Demuzio. On24.

the Otder of House Bills 3rd reading, House Bill 2436.

Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.26.

SECRETARY:27.

House Bill 2436.28.

(Secretary reads tikle of bill)29.


PRESIDENT :3l.

Senator Demuzio. Senator Demuzio.32.

SENATOR DEMUZIO:33.34. Yes- .with leave of the Senate, I1d like to...to relinquish

337

*0 'A

h. k# :r1qh'h-k.zt

the splnsorship of House Bill 2436 to Senator Knuppel. There

2. was an atendment that went on this bill that incorporates his

3. ideas.

4. PRESIDENT:

5. Youfve heard the request. Is leave granted? Leave is

6. granted. So ordered. Senator Knuppel.

7. SENATOR KNUPPEL:

8. Mr.'president and members of the Body. Al1 this bill

d s itfs amended form, everything was stricken unider the9. Oe

lc. o1d bill, a11 it does raise the limits of the consumer borrowing

11 from fifteen hundred to three thousand dollars. In the times

we live in where credit is necessary, it's becoming more andl2.

more difficult for people to get money. Theydre having tol3.

spread their loans around and this will allow them to borrow14.

up to three thousand dollars under the Consumer Finance Loanl5. .

Act and this is...this makes it easier for the people ratherl6.

than spreading it around. It's good legislation in light ofl7.

the inflationary times we live in.18.

PRESIDENT:

Is there any diseussion? not, the question is shall

Rouse Bill 2436 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those2l.

opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted22.

who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Take the record. On23.

that question the Ayes are the Nays are none, none Voting24.

Present. House Bill 2436, having received a cönstiEutional25.

majority is declared passed. Top of page 20 on the Order26.

of House Bills 3rd reading, House Bill 2440. Read the bill,27.

Mr. Secretary.28.

' SECRETARY:29.

House Bill 2440.3û.



PRESIDENT:33.34. Senator Nash.

338

SENATOR NASH:

2. Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate.

). House Bill 2440 amends the Chicago Sanitary District Act

4. to exempt laborers from Civil Service Examination. Is a

5. written examination a valid measure of a person's ability to perform

6. the duties of a laborer? Perhaps a test that would be devised

7. to determine more precisely what an individual capable

g of mastering as a laborer, such as the deomonstration of

: proper use of certain tools or equipment and a test of physical

lc endurance or strength. Thatls what werre doing with this

11 bill and that's the same thing like the janitors in the

State of Illinois Building, the State Department of Personnel,l2.

does not give written examinakions for...for jénitors. This...l3.Act does not exclude laborers from Civil Service standings,l4

.

all it does is remove the written examination.l5.

PRESIDENT:16.

Is there any discussion? Senator Walsh.l7.

SENATOR WALSH:18.

Mr. President and members of the Senate. The members

may recall that...the same bill was called as a Senate Bill20.

and defeated and what it would do is exemptyas the Calendar

indicates, exempt laborers from Civil Service Examination.

I believe there's some four hundred and fifteen or so jobs23.involved and I think the Senate should react this evening as24

.

it did last May on the Senate bill. It was...those of you25.

who serve on the Local Government Committee probably don't26. . ,

% recall having heard this bill and that's because this bill27.

was referred to the Pensions Committee.- or to the Elections28.

Committee. This is the only bill that got out of the Elections29.

Committee. But 1...1 would urge that- .that the Senators take30.

a good look at this. There's an exemption from Civil Service

O tioM and I think we should give it a No vote.32.

PRESIDENT :33.34. Further discussion? Senator Nedza.

339

p

'

' j1jl/

1. SENATOR NEDZA:

2. Thank you, Mr. Chairman..-Mr. President. I think it would

3. ...we would have a...we would create a great injustice if we4. were to deny an individual who has spent many years in private

5. industry, but unfortunately has not acquired the educational

6. background in order to pass written examinations, but yet

7. has a great proficiency in the expenditure of a specific duty

g such as a laborer. There are people that can take a shovel

: and make..it sing and then there are people than can take a

lo pencil and just crack the point. We should not deny a specific

11 individual the right to be qualified based on his experience

and his ability to perform the task that is given to him asl2.

opposed to having him read on a piece of paper and try tol3.

answer questions. I suppnrt this bill.l4. .

PRESIDENT: 'l5.

Any discussion? Senator DeAngelis.l6.

SENATOR DeANGELIS:l7.

Question of the sponsor.l8.

PRESIDENT:19.

Indicates helll yield. Senator DeAngelis. Senator DeAngelis.2o.

SENATOR DeANGELIS:2l.

Senator Nash, the people that would be hired under this22.

program would be on probation for one year, correct?23.

PRESIDENT:24.

' Senator Nash.2b.

' SENATOR NASH:26.

senator DeAngelis, khey would be on probation for six months.27.

1 It does not take him out of the Civil Service standings. A1l28.

it removes is the written portion of the examination. They29.

1 will have to perform some kind of a test, previous experience' 30.i will be. ..considered and weighed very heavily before they. 3l.

are hired. It would only remove the written portion of a w32.

test for laborers. The rest stays as is.33.

34O

' j

11

PRESIDENT:

senatôr DeAngelis.

SENATOR DeANGELIS:

Senator Nash, not wanting to dispute with you, but I think

in reading the bill it says one year. But anyhow, my question

6. is basically, is that when they go into the Civil Service, after

the probationary period?

8.. PRESIDENT:

9. Senator Nash.

lc. SENATOR NASH:

Yes, not exceeding a year: yes, Senator DeAngelis.

l2. PRESIDENT:

l3. Senator Rhoads.

14 SENATOR RHOADS:

15 Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. Senator

16 Nash, did a little homework on this billz now the number of

17 examinations that were given last time the exam was given was

z8 , roughly how many?

19 PRESIDENT:

2o Senator Nash.

SENATOR NASH:

Everytime there's openings for laborers, they hold Civil

Service Examinations. It costs the Sanitary District twelve23.

to fifteen thousand dollars to hold examinations for ten, fifteen24.

openings and everytime they have to fill them they have to25.

perform- .have a whole new examination. Itls a waste of time,26.

a waste of taxpayer's money and it's an injustice to the27.

workink men and women who apply for these jobs.28.PRESIDENT:29

.

'Senator Rhoads.3ô.

SENATOR RHOADS:3l.

Don'k Eake my whole minute, I'm going to try to help you.32.

For the second time today, I did receive a phone call from33.

3.

4.

5.

34l

1. Ed Jerdson the Republican Trustee of the Chicago Metropolitan

Sanitary.District. The District was kind enough to send me

a copy of the examination. The examination is something that

4. any first grader could fill out. This is a hammer, this is

5. a saw, this is a screwdriver and so forth. The...the thousands

6. of the exams are given for a limited number- .of openings, as

Senator Nash indicated and this gets the hopes of a lot of

g. people up for, frankly, to no avail. -...acted

9 on this bill two years ago, I opposed it# opposed the earlier

lc this year, but frankly I have looked into it and I don't

yl think itls an unreasonable bill.

2 PRESIDENT:l .

Is there any further dis cussion? Senator Maragos .l 3 .

Senator . . . Senator Nash . . .senator Nash may close the debate .14 .

SENATOR NASH :15 .

Mr . Pres iden: , I urge a favorable rol l call .l 6 .

PRESI DENT :l 7 .

The question is shall House Bill 2440 pass . Those inl 8 .

favor will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The votingl9.

is open. Have a1l voted who uish? Have all voted who wish?20.

Take the record. On that question the Ayes are 46, the Nays2l.

are 8, none Voting Present. House Bill 2440, having received

a constitutional majority is declared passed. On the Qrder of23.

House Bills 3rd reading is House Bill 2446. Read the bill,24.

Mr. Secretary.2b.

26.

27.

28.

29.End of Reel /930

.

3l.

32.

342

Reel #10

2.


House Bill 2446.

(Acting Secretary reads title of bill)


PRESIDENT:5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

The bill does just exactly what the legend in your Journalsays that it does. lowers the population of counties for the

use of votipg machines to thirty-five thousand. I submit this

is good legislation. Will make it easier for the officials that

must conduct the elections and would appreciate a favorable roll

call.

l4. PRESIDENT:

15 Is there any discussion? Senator Rhoads.

16 SENATOR RHOADS:

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. Forl7.

1g those of you from downstate Illinois who may be interested as to

what counties are specifically affected by this. They would bel9.

Bureau, Christian, Franklin, Lee, Marion, McDonough and Morgan.20.

I don't know why there's something magic about lowering the2l.

specific threshold from forty thousand to thirty-five thousand22.

without consulting with the county clerks of those counties.23.

don't know what additional costs would be involved, but this would24.

affect those counties for those of you who are interested.25.

PRESIDENT:26.

Is there any further discussion? Senator Knuppel may close27.

the debate.28.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:29.

Well, originally I was. not for this like Senator Rhoads wasn't30.

for the other bill, but I came to see the light and like he, I hope3l.

next year hedll be for ik. Thank you very much.32.

PRESIDENT:

The question is, shall House Bill 2446 pass. Those in favor

2. will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open.

3. Have a1l voted who wish? Have a11 voted who wish? Have al1 voted

4. who wish? Take khe record. On that question, the Ayes are 32,

the Nays are 2 Voting Present. House Bill 2446 having received

6. a constitutional majority is declared passed. Yes, senator Maitland,

7. for what purpose do you arise?

8. SENATOR MAITLAND:

9. A verification of the affirmative votes.

10. PRESIDENT:

ll. A11 right. Will the members please be in their seats. Senator

12 Maitland has requested a verification of the affirmative votes.

13 The members will please be in their seats. Mr. Secretaryyread the

y4 affirmative votes and we ask the members to respond.

SECRETARY:l5.

16 The following voted in the affirmative: Becker, Berman,

Berning, Carroll; Chew, Collins, D'Arco, Daley, Demuzio, Donnelald,l7.

Egan: Gitz, Hall, Jeremiah Joyce, Knuppel, Lemke, Maragos, Martin,l8.

McLendon, Merlo, Mitchler, Nash, Nedza, Nega, Netsch, Sangmeister,19. .

Savickasz Schaffer; Vadalabene, Washington, Wooten, Mr. President.20.

PRESIDENT:2l.

Senator Maitland.22.


Jeremiah Joyce.24.

PRESIDENT:2b.

Is Senator Joyce on the Floor? Is Senator Joyce on the Floor?26.

Strike his.yustrike his name from the roll.27.


Senator Berning.29.

PRESIDENT:30.

Is Senator Berning on the Floor? Is Senator Berning on the Floor?3l.

Strike his name from the record.32.


344

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

l2.

Senator D'Arco.

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco is on the Floor, Senator Maitland. All

right, the roll has been verified...

SENATOR MAITLAND:

Senator Daley.

PRESIDENT :

The roll...senator Joyce has appeared on the Floor. Yeah.

Put him on.- back on the roll. The verification was still going

on. A11 right. The roll has been verified. On that question,

there are 31 Ayes, 22 Nays and 2 Voting Present. House Bill 2446

having received the constitutional majority is declared passed.

Senator Lemke having voted on the prevailing side moves to re-

consider. Senator Buzbee moves to Table that motion. A1l in

favor signify by saying Aye. Al1 opposed. The Ayes have it. So

ordered. Yes, Senator Buzbee, for what purpose do you arise?

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Mr. President, T'd like the record to...to reflect that

was temporarily off the Floor for a minute and had I been here

I would have voted Aye for that bill.

PRESIDENT:

The record will so reflect. On the'order of House Bills,

3rd reading, House Bill- .senator Newhouse, for what purpose do

you arise?

SENATOR NEWHOPSE:

Mr. President, tried to get your aktention early. There

was some confusion back here and I punched the wrong button.

intended to vote a...Aye vote on that bill. I1d like for the

record...

PRESIDENT:

The record will so refleck. Senator McLendon on 2450. On

the Order of House Billp, 3rd reading is House Bill 2450. Read

the bill, Mr. Secretary.

l4.

l5.

16.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

24.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

345

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

SECRETARY;

House Bill 2450.


3rd reading the bill.

PRESIDENT:

Senator McLendon.

SENATOR MCLENDON:

Thank you, Mr. President. This bill repeals the Emergency

Public Transportation Act of 1971. The Emergency Public Trans-

portation Act of 1971 provided a total of thirty-two million

dollars to mass transit systems throughout the State for b0th

operatihg assistance and capitol improvements. There was no

aukomatic repealer in the Act to be effective once the grants

had been made. I ask the support of the Senate.

PRESIDENT :

Is there any discussion? If not, the question is, shall

House Bill 2450 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those opposed

will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have al1 voted who wish? Have

a11 voted who wish? Have a1l voted who wish? Take the record. On

that question, the Ayes are 30, the Nays are 18, 3 Voting Present.

House Bill 2450 having received a constitutional majority is declared

passed. 2462, Senator Chew. 2467, Senator Maragos. Senator

Savickas, is Senator Maragos on the Floor? can't see him back

there. On the Order of House Bills, 3rd reading, House Bill 2467.


SECRETARY:

House Bill 2'467.



PRESIDING.OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Senator Maragos.

SENATOR MARAGOS:

Mr. Presidént and members of the Senate. House Bill 2467 is

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

22.

23.

24.

26.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

346

1.

2.

3.

6.

7.

8.

9.

ln.

l1.

l2.

much needed by many municipalities that have problems when they

have to condemn property and- .and destroy them and they have to

have liens for the knocking down of the buildings. This way they

put a lien on it, they tell the insurance companies, especially, if

those properties that have been destroyed by fire insurance- .by

fire and they have the fire insurance proceeds that the owner of

the property does not get them, so when they wreck the properties

they want...they have the lien rights, for they should have the lien

right on the insurance proceeds and this is a good bill and I ask

for your support.


Is there discussion? The question is, shall House Bill 2467

pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is

open. Have a11 those voted who wish? Have all those voted who

wish? . Take the record. On that question, the Ayes are 52, the

Nays are House Bill 2467 having received the constitutional

majoritA is declared passed. House Bill 2473, Senator DlArco.


SECRETARY:

House Bill 2473.




Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

Thank you, Mr. President. Whak this bill does is extends khe

option of nominating candidates for avtownship office by either

primary election or primary caucus to townships of seventy-five

thousand or more population that are adjàcent to cities of seventy-five thousand or more population. There is a quirk in the Election

Law that says that if you have a township of seventy-five thousand

or more that is adjacent to a city of seventy-five thousand population

or more, you must hominate these township officials by a primary and

l4.

l6.

17.

l8.

19.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

2$.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

347

2.

3.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

you cannot do it by party caucus and al1 this bill does is to say

that in those townships you can do it by caucus or primary, which-

ever is the proper way to go and I would ask for a favorable vote.


Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

.. .Just a moment. I've got...as Senator Graham would sayy I'm up

to my hips in midgets around here. SenaEor...senator D'Arco, why?

We...we have, for example, the township of Stickney adjacent to the

City of Chicago, the township of Lyons is adjacent to Chicago.

Typically, what these townships do is form new political parties.

Now,if theydre running under the label of Democratic and Republican,

should they not be required to have a primary?

PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D 'ARCO:

Why...why should they be required to have a primary?


Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

Because they're...they're running under the label Republican

and Democratic. They...they ought to...you can't do that by a

town caucus in a...in a township of a hundred thousand, as you have

in Cook. My township, where I live, is adjacent to Ehe clearing

industrial...district. Itls adjacent to the City of Chicago...


Senator D 'Arco.

SENATOR DIARCO:

The...I...T...he is...T dôn't know. Mark, are you indicating

because they- .they run on party labels that khey...they should be

involved in a primary and...and not be s'elected at a party caucus?

I canft...l don't understand your logic. Maybe...


34 8

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

16.

Senator Rhoads, your time has expired. Senator Geo-Maris.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

Would the sponsor yield for a question?


Indicates he will.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

believe you said that this is an optional plan. You could

either have by caucus or by a primary. Who decides the option?

PRESIDTNG OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

The central committee can decide to have a primary, if they

so choose of the-- committee of the township.


Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

And if the eentral committee does not so choose, then to have

a primary, they'll have just a caucus.PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

Yeah, that's the other opkionyis have to have the caucus.


Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

hate to disagree with you, but Mr. Pregident and Ladies

and Gentlemen of the Senatey within my minute I don't think

that's very democratic, even though I'm a Republican and I don't

think it's very democrakic because if the central committee has it

in for a good candidate, he'll never get on the ballot.

PRESIDING OFFTCER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Senator Schaffer.

SENATOR SCHAFFER:

l8.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

3û.

31.

32.

33.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

12.

l3.

l1.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

Senator D'Arco, is there anything in this bill that would

prevent a small township from having a primary? vaguely recall

somebody talking to me about this and there was some concern that

it...you kncw...gave the primary option to the big townships, but

somehow took away from the small townships.


Senator DfArco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

Why, don't...I don't know how youbre defining big and small

here. It's seven thousand five hundred is the number right now

that says that in those cities of more than that number that are

adjacent to...in those townships of Ehat number that are adjacent

to cities of seventy-five thousand or more population, they have

to have it by primary. If it's less than that number, then they

can have it by caucus if they're not adjacent to a...a city with

that seventy-five thousand population.


Senator Schaffer.

SENATOR SCHAFFER:

So...we11, what yod're saying is it doesn't negatively affect

anybody's ability to have a primary, but it...


Senator...

SENATOR SCHAFFER:

. . .it allows areas that are currently mandated to have a

primary to have a caucus.


Senator Schaffer, your time has expired. Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Yeah, I...we11, my good friend Johnnie D'Arco...I just hate

to rise in opposition to any of the good bills he has, but this

one allows townships to nominate by caucus and just...we'vekilled...as Senator Philip's bill, allowed this to happen. It

350

1. seems to me the best thing is, think primaries...the way we ought

to go. We ought not to have caucuses determining candidates. We

3. ought to always allow the public to be fully involved by the

4. ballot box and what this bill says is that they can do it by

5. caucus and I dondt believe they ought to be allowed to do that,

6. whether in townships of above or below seventy-five hundred.

7. PRESIDING OFEICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

g Senator Philip.

SENATOR PHILIP:9. Thank you, Mr. President and Ladies and Gentlemen of...of :he

l0. Senate. And I hope that Senator D'Arco is listening. Am I to

1l. assume your bill give the option and leaves it up to a local

l2. political party to have a caucus or a primary. Well, I Want to

l3. .tell you one thing, Senator Bruce. That makes some common sense.

14. We have some Eownships downstate that have one precinct and you

l5. mean to tell me we ought to have an election for one precinct.

16. You got to be kidding me. I have some townships in my own county

17. that have four...four and five precincts in one township. One of

l8.

.

them has nine. You think weCre going to open that up. The other

l9. party doesn't even file sometimes. They don't even have candidates

running and you tell me we ought te have a prkmary and open up

2l. every precinct. Ridiculous. Itls a Good bill and we a1l ought

22.to support it.

23. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)24.

Senator Nimrod.25.

SENATOR NIMROD:26. Yeah, a...a question, Senator D'Arco. Tell me...you said

27. something about the central committee deciding, but in Cook County

28. we have those townships that are adjacent to Chicago, who decides

29. there? The...the township committeemen or does it have to go to the...

30. the county çentral committee?3l. PRESIDINO OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)32.

Senator D'Arco.33.

35l

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7. So this exempts those thak are adjacen: to the City of Chicago?

g. PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

9. Senator D'Arco.

lc SENATOR D'ARCO:

11 No...no. It...

la PRESIDING OFFICER: (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

la senator Nimrod.

SENATOR NIMROD:l4.

Does this apply to Cook County?l5.


Senator D'Arco.l7.

SENATOR D'ARCO:l8.

Yes, it...it gives them the option. If theydre adjacent tol9.

the City of Chicagozit would give them the option to do it by20.

primary or by caucus.


Senator Nimrod.23. ,

SENATOR NIMROD:24.

Then...then, if it does, who- .who decides that? You said...25.

is it the.- tn the townshipzby the township committeemen or does26.

it have to go to the county?27.


Senator Nimrod, your time has expired. Senator D'Arco may29.

elose and answer.30.

SENATOR DIARCO:3l.

long time ago that was the township cenEral committee would32.decide if it was going to have it by primary or by caucus. thought

33.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

If they have to go to Chicago, it has to be done by primary.

You canlt do it by party caucus.


Senator Nimrod.

SENATOR NIMROD :

352

2.

3.

4.

5.

7.

8.

9.

ll.

12.

13.

l4.

l5.

16.

18.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

we made that clear before. As to Senator Bruce's objection, therèare many townships now that do this by caucus. In fact, most

townships do, in fact, do this by caucus. We're not- .we're not

suggesting that a11 the townships that cannot do it by caucus can

be allowed to do it by caucus under this bill. We're just extendingthat option to townships that have seventy-five thousand or.- or

seven thousand five hundred or more population and are adjacent tocities of seventy-five thousand population. It's not in..'.it's not

that complicated and I agree with Pate Philip, that the problem

is some of these townships don't have precinct committeemen and

could care less whether or not there is a primary to elect a town-

ship official and I would ask for a favorable vote.

PRESIDING OFFICER; (SENATOR DONNEWALD)

Senator Collins, I'm sorry, I overlooked you. Did you wish

to speak on this?

SENATOR COLLINS:

I just kind of wanted some clarification. I guess he answered

but Ifm not sure I understand it. Are you saying that Oak Park

Township...are you talking about...like village clerk, elected

offkckals there?


Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

No, not village oftices, just township offices.


A11 right. The question isr shall House Bill 2473 pass.

Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The voting is open.

Have a11 those voted who wish? Have a1l those voted who wish?

Have al1 those voted who wish? Take the record. On that questionr

the Ayes are 3l, the Nays are 23, Voting Present. House Bill 2473

having received the constitutional majority is declared passed.House Bill 2484, Senator Vadalabene. Just...Benator Vadalabene.


1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

l1.

l2.

l3.

l4,

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.


House Bill 2484.




Senator Vadalabene.

SENATOR VADALABENE:

Yes, House Bill 2484 increases the Alternative Retirement

Annuity for firefighters. Under the State Employees Retirement...

System an Alternative Retirement Annunity is provided for certain

classes of employees whose duties are of a more hazardous or

strepuous nature. This group includes State Policemen, firefighters,

air pilots and special agents and the annual unit of pension is

somewhat higher and the age for retirement to be unreduced pension

is lower for the regular employees. This has the recommendation

of the State Employees Retirement System and I would ask for a

favorable vote.


Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

Thank you, Mr. President. rise in support of the bill. It's

approved by the Pension Laws Commission. The cost is nominal.


Is there further discussion? The question is, shall House

Bill 2484 pass. Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay.

The voting is open. Have a11 those voted who wish? Have a1l those

voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, the Ayes are

55, the Nays are 1. House Bill 2484 having received the constitutional

majority is declared passed. House Bill 2488, Senator Lemke. Readthe bill, Mr. Secretary.


House Bill 2488.


3 *5 4

2.

3.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l1.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.



Senator Lemke.

SENATOR LEMKE:

What this does is- .amends the Act concerning clerks of

courts. Increases the minimum and maximum compensation allowed to be

paid to clerks of courts.- circuit courts of each county. ask

for its adoption.


Is there discussion? Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

Could you explain what the amendment did to the bill?


Senator Lemke.

SENATOR LEMKE:

Letîs see, we have an amendment here. I mean.- the House

Amendment. This is in counties of populations of less than

fourteen thousand...at least twelve thousand...fourteen thousand

and one to thirty thousand...thirteen thousand. Thirty thousand

and one Eo sixty thousand- .fourteen thousand. Sixty thousand to

a hundred thousand...at fifteen thousand. A hundred thousand to

two hundred thousand sixteen five. Two hundred and one to three

hundred thousand eighteen thousand. Three hundred thousand and one

to a million,. at least, twenty and over a million maximum of forty-

two five.


Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

Are you...did you eliminate the maximum limits on that?


Senator Lemke.

SENATOR LEMKE:

This is...you asked me what they meant. don't know if that

355

2.

).

4.

amendment eliminatx the maximums or the minimuns. It just says

at least, so T assume it sets a minimum.


Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

Thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. The

Clerk of the Circuit Court of Cook County is a constitutm t of mine,

so I take interest in the bill. It seems by virtue of Senate

Amendment No. 1, which was adopted in the Senate, you have taken

off the lid for the maximum salary, which may be paid to the Circuit

Clerk in Cook County and you make the current maximum of forty-two

five the new minimum. Isn't that what youfre doing by virtue of

Senate Amendment No. 1?


Senator Lemke.

SENATOR LEMKE:

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

l2.

l3.

14.

l5.

l6.

18.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

3n.

31.

32.

33.

That's what we're doing, yes...in Cook County it's just forty-

two five...maximum and minimum.


Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

No, Senator, that's not what the amendment does. The...the

amendment makes .forty-two five the new minimum and takes off any

maximum, isn't that correct?


Senator Lemke.

SENATOR LEMKE:

Itls says no more than forty-two five.


Senator Rhoads.

SENATOR RHOADS:

I have the amendment here, on page 1, line 21 by deleting ''not

more than'' and inserting in lieu thereof ''at least.?

356

1.

2.

3.

6.

7.

8.

l0.

1l.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

19.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

3O.

3l.

32.

33.


Senator Rhoads, your time has expired. Senator Kenneth Hall.

SENATOR KENNETH HALL:

No, I just wanted to be recognized after this is finished.


Senator Geo-Karis, do you wish to speak a second time? A11

right.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:


Senate. Don't...you a11 recall House Bill 342 that this Body in

its judgment said no, we don't want it because we don't want toeliminate the maximums on...on county officials. The Circuit Court

Clerk is a county official and I think if we're going to keep in

mind with what we already decided in this Body then we should not

vote for this bill.


Senator Lemke may close. The questioniis, shall House Bill

2488 pass... Those in favor vote Aye. Those opposed Nay. The

voting is open. Have a11 those voted who wish? Have a1l those

voted who wish? Take the record. On that question, the Ayes are

21y the Nays are 28. House Bill 2488 not having received the

constitutional majority is declared lost. House Bill 2492,Senator Knuppel. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:

House Bill 2492.




Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Mr. Chairman and members of the Body. House Bill 2492 provides

an adjustment for State's Attorneys. It has some changes in it from

the present type of a situation. Presently Statefs Attorneys under

357

1.

2.

).

4.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

l3.

l4.

l6.

17.

l8.

l9.

20.

22.

23.

2b.

26.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

counties of thirty thousand are paid twenty-five thousand five

hundred. Over thirty thousand theytre paid forty-two thousand

six hundred. With the amendment it now provides counties of

less than ten thousand. the salary will stay at twenty-five

thousand five hundred. In counties from ten to twenty thousand,

it will stay at that level until the new State's Attorney is

elected in December, 1980 and then thereafter, it will be thirty-

one thousand five hundred. From twenty phousand to thirty thousand,it will be twenty-five: five until December, 1980 and thereafter,

thirty-six thousand. From thirty thousand to one million, it will

be...will rise from forty-two thousand six hundred in 1980 to

fifty thousand five hundred thereafter, which is the same as what

a Circuit Judge receives. In Cook County where they have a large

staff and the administrative dpties are extreme, the salary will

be fifty thousand until December of 1980 and will then raise to

fifty-eight thousand thereafter. Now, the State normally pays

two-thirds of this salary and you know how I feel about mandated

programs, so this bill contains a provision that the third of the

salary to be paid by the counties mupt be voted by the county board.

Otherwise, the increase amounts to only two-thirds of the indicated

amount. Now, what's happened in the last few years is we have

established Class X. It requires, in my opinion, a wiser, better

State's Attorney because welve removed discretion from judges andinvested that in State's Attorneys. think that statistics show

that in 1976, even with the salaries we have for State's Attorneys

that sixty-four of the individuals elected had less than two and

a half years experience as practicing lawyers. We should do

everything we can in the society we live in to keep and maintain

qualified men in these positions and men of judgment and discretioh

because theylre dealing now with very serious crimes and they must

have some more discretion in charging then they have had previously.

1, personally, as you know, did support...


358


2.

).

4.

5.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

A11 right. did support limiting their practice. I t hink

that we...if we can't do that, we have to raise the salary to

keep competent men.


Senator Weaver.

SENATOR WEAVER:

A question of *he sponsor. Senator Knuppel: did you say that in

this bill you don't disqualify a'''sta-te's Attorney in a small

county from practicing law?


7.

8.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

There is no change. If they are in counties of less than

thirty thousand, they still may practice law. In counties ofl6.

over thirty thousand, they may not.

PRESIDENT:l8.

Further discussion? Senator Buzbee.l9.

SENATOR BUZBEE:

Thank you, Mr. President. On a previous payraise bill for2l.

ESR'S educational service regions, I was off the Floor and I was22.

not voted. That's unfortunate, however, when I had one of those23.

gentlemen as a good friend of mine, came into my office some time24.

ago lobbying me to vote for his pay increase, flat out told him25.

no and when he said why, I said because I see no reason why you26.

ought to make that much more money than me and he kind of stopped27.

and said well, that's about the best reason I've ever heard and28.

that's the reason why I'm opposed to this pay increase for State's29.

Attorneys. see no reason why...they ought to make that much30.

more money than me.31.

PRESIDENT:32.

Further discussion? Senator Gitz.33.

359

SENATOR GITZ:

2.

3.

4.

A question of the sponsor.

PRESIDENT:

He indicates he will yield. Senator Gitz.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

13.

l4.

l5.

l6.

SENATOR GITZ:

1...am I correct in assuming that's there no restriction on

an outside practice in the smaller counties in this bill?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

counties of less than thirty thousand

there is no restriction on practice except that which is provided

by ethics. Ethically, a State's Attorney should not handle an

adoption, a divorce or a negligence case arising out of his county.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Gitz.

SENATOR GITZ:

Well, Mr. President and members of the Senate. Two things.l8.

Number one, I think that there's more rationale for a pay increasel9.

ao for State's Attorneys than there is for the educational super-

intendents. I certainly agree with Senator Martin on that. I have21.

some reservations about supporting this bill, however, if they're22.

still going to be able to have an outside practice and I'd like to23.

finally close on this note. I had a very unusual experience in24.

which the Ogle County State's Attorney actually called me and says,25.

we don't want the pay increase,don't support it. There are several26.

counties involved in the district, but on that basis I have a great27.

deal of difficulty trying to support this bill.28.

PRESIDENT:29.

Further discussion? Senator Johns.30.

SENATOR JOHNS:3l.

Senator Knuppel.32.

'. PRESIDENT:33.

You are correct.

360

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

l3.

14.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

19.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

2b.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

He indicates he will yield. Senator Johns.

SENATOR JOHNS:

What's the national average for lawyers salary? Is there

such a thing?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

I could...l couldn't tell you. I've not done any research.

You're talking about just lawyers, generally, but I would say that

and they do have statistics, I just didn't get them, but I would

say the average lawyer with ten years experience in downstate

Illinois is making between forty and sixty thousand and that the

better lawyers go on up to well over a hundred thousand...some of

them. Now, this is.n this is capable men who have practiced, at

least, ten years who are the type of men you'd want in a...as

State's Attorneys in counties of over twenty thousand people.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Johns.

SENATOR JOHNS:

Well, I think this raise is justified, then inn .under those

conditions and trying to keep good men in office.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Egan.

SENATOR EGAN:

Yes, thank you, Mr. President and members of the Senate. 'The. . .

the argumene against this payraise are...are a11 in comparison one

to the other and if we look at the value of the job and how much

the individual that should be performing the job well is worth,

it certainlN is not too much money and I support your favorable

consideration.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

361

1.

2.

3.

4.


PRESIDENT:

He indicakes he will yield. Senator Berning.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

13.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

SENATOR BERNING:

Senator, where in the bill does it say thak the county must

enact an ordinance to pay the one-third salary? 1...1 don't

quite pick that out.

PRESIDENT :

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

It's...it's on the last page of the two page amendment. You

see,everything was stricken after it came over from the House and

it says ''the Statels Attorney shall not receive the county's

portion of the salary increase provided for in this Amendatqry Act

unless the county board approves funds to pay the thirty-three and

a third percent increase that theyrre responsible for.'' So this

payraise may, if the county doesnlt want to pay it or it's in

financial embarrassment,may only amount to two-thirds of what I've

suggested.

PRESIDENT:

Is there any further discussion? Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

If I have the proper amendments, Senator, and I only have one,

it does not refer to counties, it just says Cook County shall

furnish thirty-three and a third percent.

PRESIDENT:

senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Well, Sir, there were two...very frankly, there were two

amendments distributed. They called one back at the last minute.

The one that.- thatds...that should be in...the correct one and

I've checked this and I've got the...the analysis here- .the

correct one provides and this is something that the Governor wanted

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

362

2.

).

4.

in the bill...something I wanted in the bill. don't believe

we should mandate this on the counties, so khe correct one and

I'm sure that's right, the correct one has any county.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Bowers.

6.

7.

8.

SENATOR BOWERS:

Senator Knuppel, was Amendment No. l that was adopted, I

believe, on June 22nd, was that Tabled in lieu of Amendment No. 27

Is that why welre confused?

PRESIDENT:l0.

1l.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

Senator Knuppel.

l8.

l9.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

This amendment was put on Saturday morning, which would have

been the 23rd. 1...1 was gone. had a sale and I had some

help on this andm..and it should have been Tabled and if it

wasndt, then there.v.then there is confusion: but the...the

amendment...the second amendment was brought up here too late

to get it on on Friday and was to be placed on...I left it with

someone here to place on there on Saturday morning. I didn't

realize that the other amendment had been adopted.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Bowers.

SENATOR BOWERS:

Well, I...the only reason I asked the question is because

they don't appear to be compatible and...our records, at least,

those Ifm looking at now, show them b0th as being adopted.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

A1l...ail right, then here's what the problem is. This,

I didn't handle the amendment and I cannot guarantee that, but...

but they tell me at...down there at the Secretaryls Desk that both

amendments went on. The second amendmenE...which one have you got

363

2.

).

on there'as the second amendment?

PRESIDENT:

Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY :

Yes. Amendment No. is the one that is referring to the

thirty-three and a third percent. Amendment No. 1 does not refer

to that.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

A1l right. Let's take it out of the record, then and- .and

1111 ask leave right at this point, to take it to 2nd reading, if

I may, of this Body because it was- .well, wait a minute. The

reason I wasn't here Saturday morning...the reason this occurred

was because I had a...a farmland sale that had been scheduled and

the farm next to where I live was being sold, so I would ask leave

and I'd ask the courtesy of the Body to take to...to take it

back to 2nd reading, to Table Amendment No. 1 and then return

to amendment...to 3rd reading.

PRESIDENT:

Al1 right. Youdve heard the request. Is leave granted?

Senator Knuppel has sought leave to return House Bill 2492 to the

Order of 2nd reading for the purpose of Tabling an amendment.

Leave is...has been granted. On the Order of House Billsy 2nd

reading...senator Knuppel.

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

I'd move to reconsider the vote by which Amendment No. 1 was

adopted.

PRESIDENT :

right. Letds...welre on House Bills: 2nd reading, House

Bill 2492. Senator Knuppel moves to reconsider the vote by which

Amendment No. l was adopted. A1l in favor signify by saying Aye.

A11 opposed. The Ayes have

SENATOR KNUPPEL:

Now, I would move to Table Amendment...

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

l4.

l5.

l6.

17.

18.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

364

2.

3.

4.

PRESIDENT:

The amendment...the vote is reconsidered. Senator Knuppel

now moves to Table Amendment No. to House Bill 2492. A1l in

favor signify by saying Aye. A11 opposed. The Ayes have it.

The amendment is Tabled. Further amendments?

SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:

3rd

purpose do you arise?

SENATOR HALL:

A point of personal privilege, Mr. President. Mr. President,

I think the Body, as a whole, would like to thank the hosts who

put on one of the grandest evenings wedve had in Springfield last

night and think special praise should go tovn senator Maragos,

who...provided the liquor and the wine, Senator Nash, who gave us

the entertainment and the cooks, Senator Geo-Karis, who had a1l

the pastries and help, Senator Jerome Joyce, who provided the lamb,

Senator Donnewald, who supplied the beer and Senator Carroll and

the Governor, who made a11 the arrangements. I think that a11 of

us should give them a round and a vote of thanks.

PRESIDENT:

All right. On the...senator...senator Berman on 2500.

on the Order of House Bills, 3rd reading, is House Bill 2500.


SECRETARY :

House Bill 2500.



PRESIDENT:

Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:

Thank you, Mr. President. House Bill 2500 makes a number of

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

reading. 2500, Senator Berman. Senator Hally for what

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

365

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

changes in the Crime Victims Compensation Act. The bill has

been...developed with the close working of the AEtorney General's

Office and their Crime Victims Division. The bill would make a

number of changes as follows. It would allow guardians and

conservators to file claims under the Act. IE expands the

definition of pecuniary loss. It allows a setoff against the

award for future earnings and earnings which are unreasonably

foregone by the applicant or victim. z'he average monthly income

limit is raised from five hundred to seven hundred and fifty dollars

per month. It qives the Court of Claims the power to promulgate

necessary rules. It issues subpeonas and et cetera in administering

the Act. It gives the Attorney General the power to promulgate

rules necessary to carry out his duties under thea..the Act to

investigate claims, accept...applications and represent the State

in compensation claim cases. The Attorney General shall provide

information concerning the availability of compensation under the

Act. The law enforcement agencies and hospitals which shall rely

such information to the victims. It sets forth a time period in

which the notice of claim must be filed with the Attorney General,

which is six months and the time period in which the claim must

be filed with the Court of Claims...which is one year. It requires

that appropriate 1aw enforcement agencies be notified of the crime

that's involved in order to be a prerequisite to the filing of the

claims under here and it raises the award limit from ten thousand

dollars to twenty-five thousand dollars. I'd be glad to respond to

any questions and soliciE your affirmative vote.

PRESIDENT:

Is there any discussion? Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

One question to the sponsor, please.

PRESIDENT:

He indicates he will >yield. Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:

366

1.

3.

4.

5.

6.

8.

9.

l0.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

17.

l8.

The attorney's fees were deleted from this bill, were they

not, Senator Berman?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:

No. That...that was by inadvertence in the House. Theylve

been put back in, as they are in the Act and that is...that was

by amendment from Senator Shapiro the other day that fees could

be charged when there is a hearing.

PRESTDENT:

Senator Geo-Karis.

SENATOR GEO-KARIS:'

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate. I speak

in favor of this bill. thought the fees were out, but I guess

theylre in b0th bills. This is the companion bill. If this is

a very well drawn bill, a necessary bill and I'd certainly speak

in favor of it.

PRESIDENT:

Is there any further discussion? Senator Johns.

SENATOR JOHNS:20.

Senator Berman...

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

PRESIDENT:

He indicates he will yield. Senator Johns.

SENATOR JOHNS:

A couple of weeks ago...maybe not that long, Qe had a young

lady...murdered in our town and she was separated or divorced

from her husband. She had a two year o1d son. Now, when I

pursued helping this child under this Act, I was told that in

order for the child to receive burial expenses for the...for the

mother...you know, so that he wouldn't have this or his grandmother

or anyone else having the payments, that the sheriff had to make

the application upon the request of the parents and so forth- .is...

you know, how does this work? Is this in the...is this in the same

367

2.

).

4.

5.

field as I'm talking about?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berman.

SENATOR BEWG N:

Did you say the sheriff? No...

SENATOR JOHNS:

I was told by the Attorney General's Office and the...under

the Crimes Compensation Act, that the sheriff had to make the

request to the Attorney General...

SENATOR BERMAN:

No, I don't...

SENATOR JOHNS:

. ..office for compensation for the two year o1d child to

carry out the burial costs. Is that...

SENATOR BERMAN:

Well, 1...1 don't think that's correct. I donlt think therer..

that there is any 1aw enforcement person that has to make any of

these claims. What this bill does do, is allows the guardians of

that child or the conservator of that child to make claims and I

believe that they would be allowed. I don't...there's...to my

knowledge, there's no roll for the sheriff, at a1l in this...under

this Act.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR DIARCO:

. . . O h . '. .

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

Arthur, I was told by a former colleague of ours, that-- that

this bill would give compensation Eo a person who lived in the

same household, but was unrelated to the victim. Now, donlt

see thak in the bill, but are you familiar with that argument to

8.

9.

l0.

1l.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

20.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

368

1.

2.

).

this bill?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:

That's the first of I've heard of it. I'm not aware of

that kind of a provision...

PRESIDENTF

Further discussion? Senator Wooten.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

Thank you, Mr. President. Do I understand the House struck

out the provision which would have limited attorney's fees, but

still allows the setoffs of attorney's fees...attorney fees paid?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:

The House...in an amendment struck out the Section dealing

with attorney's fees. That has been put back in by an amendment

put on by Senator Shapiro.

PRESIDENT:

. . .senator Wooten.

SENATOR WOOTEN:

That's not a limitation of fees, though.

PRESIDENT :

Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:

The only time the fees are allowed under this Act, as amended,

under the old 1aw and this law is when a hearing is required.

PRESIDENT:

senator Wooten.

SENATOR WOOTEN :

Well, it's been suggested that this is a very complex Act

made more complex by this reorganization. In terms like the

applicant must have cooperated fully with the police leads to a

6.

7.

8.

l0.

ll.

12.

l3.

l1.

15.

l6.

17.

l8.

19.

2ô.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

2$.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

369

1.

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

l4.

l6.

17.

l8.

19.

20.

22.

23.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

variety of interpretations and must show Ehat youdve exhausted

a1l other possible benefits. It could be quite a burden. I

don't pretend to know a11 about the complexities of this law,

but it seems to me that the process is being far more complicated

when we should be simplifying

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Well, 1...1 am concerned about the attorney's fees. As I

read the Section 17, which...reading Senator Shapiro's amendment,

which dealt with...with a different a page number, it seems to me

that this says that if you can go in and negotiate a higher

settlement, that the attorneyls fees is the amount in excess of

the compensation offered or accepted or awarded plus the costs

of suits and attorney's fees actually incurred. Now, right now

as I recall the present Statute on a death claim the attorney cannot,

in fact, even get a fee and I think there is a prohibition against

a fee and I just-..l am very concerned to see language that sayswe are going to pay attorney's fees in...excess of the amount

that they first offered. I wonder if someone can clarify where

we are with attorneyls fees?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:

I think youdre reading..vthe Section 17 deals with the rights

of subrogation, as to what is of- -what is recovered when the State

or the claimant sue a third party. That's not the Section that

deals with *he attorney's fees that are allowed under the Act.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE :

Well, my question still is, is there a limitation or a prohibition

against fees when there is a death çlaim filed? had one of

370

1.

. 2

3.

4.

these not very long ago and as I recall there was an absolute

prohibition against a fee in a death claim filing.

PRESIDENT :

Senator Berman.

SENATOR BERMAN:

The.n the fees are paid as follows. itv- if there is no

hearing, in other words, if it's just admission of a claim, thereis no fees. If there is a hearing, in other words, there is some

kind of contest or debate between the Attorney Generalls Office,

the court and the claimant, the court has the power to allow fees.

Period. It's up to the court to allow fees, if there is a hearing

of some contest or other. Other than that, that's the extent of

the fees that are allowed under this case.

PRESIDENT:

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

Further discussion? Senator Bloom.

SENATOR BLOOM :

The sponsor yield?

PRESIDENT:18.

He indicates he will yield. Senator Bloom.19.

SENATOR BLOOM:20.

Does this-..does this require police officers to give some2l.

kind of written notification to victims Ehat...or some kind of a22.

notification of victims that they.- what their eligibility requirements23.

are?24.

PRESIDENT:2b.

Senator Berman.26.

SENATOR BERMAN :

There is an educational- .or public- .publicity program that28.

has been instituted with the Attorney General and local law29.

enforcement officials for the dissemination of information to30.

crime victims about the resources available under this Act.31.

PRESIDENT:32.

Senator Bloom.33.

371

. . .senator Berman, and that's not what I'm talking about.

mean, do the investigating officers have to inform these people of

their rights or- .rightr Section B, page 4, line 9 through 14.

That's what I'm referring

6. PRESIDENT:

7. Senator Berman.

8. SENATOR BERMAN:

9. YeS.

lc. SENATOR BLOOM:

1l. Okay, so it does. wonder if this is, perhaps, the best

12 use of our peace officers' time. mean, Senator Netsch has

13 them taken off to detoxification centers and now we're informing

them of various rights. Thank you.11.

PRESIDENT:l5.

16 Is there any further discussion? Senator Berman may close.

SENATOR BERMAN:17.

This bill has been worked on with and is supported by thel8.

Attorney Generalls Office, by the Court of Claims, by Chief Judge

Rowe and is a response to needed expansion and delineation of the20.

Court of Claims Victims Compensation Act. I ask for a...favorable

roll call.22.

PRESIDENT:23.

The question is, shall House Bill 2500 pass. Those in favor24.

will vote Aye. Those opposed will vote Nay. The voting is open.25.

Have a1l voted who wish? Have al1 voted who wish? Take the rpcord.26.

On that question, the Ayes are 48, the Nays are 9, l Voting Present.27.

House Bill 2500 having received the constitutional majority is28.

declared passed. 2509, Senator Johns. Senator Johns on the Eloor?29.

On the Order of House Bills, 3rd reading, House Bill 2509. Read3û.

the.- senator Johns, for what purpose do you arise?3l.

SENATOR JOHNS:32. .

Mr. President, on 2509 I've been informed by the Chairman of33.

SENATOR BLOOM:1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

372

d.t J- - . ./;k rl?1 ..%,s-: p rh k.'ii

- ,'..-.;:-'.hïz tb'yx. t, yt;' h'z

)'z fz) b.lQ,1. the Insurance Study Commission that 2509 has been incorporated

2. entirely into 961. The House sponsor has agreed to al1 that.

3. now move to Table House Bill 2509.

4. PRESIDENT:

5. Senator Johns moves to Table House Bill 2509. A11 in favor

6. say Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have The bill is Tabled.

7 2522, Senator Maragos. Senator Nedza, for what purpose do you arise?

g SENATOR NEDZA:

For the purpose of the...to make a motion to Table House Bill9.

No. 2019 and 2020. Those two bills are also being placed intol0.

House Bill 961, so I would- .make a motion to Table those two bills.ll.

PRESIDENT:12.

Al1 right. Top of page 13 on House Bills, 3rd reading, House

Bill 2019 and 2020. Senator Nedza moves to Table those two bills.l4.

All in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed. The Ayes havel5.

Those bills are Tabled. On the Order of House Bills, 3rd reading,l6.

bottom of page 20, House Bill 2522. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.l7. .

SECRETARY:l8.

House Bill 2522.19.



PRESIDENT:22.

Senator Maragos.23.

SENATOR MARAGOS:24.

Mr. President and members of the Senate. House Bill 2522 is25.

exactly as the Calendar states it and as the digest states it. It26.

gives the Property Tax Appeal Board independence from the Department27.

of Local Government Affairs. I think it is like any judicial body:28.

should be independent of any other administrative agency and29.

move for its passage.30.

PRESIDENT:3l.

Is there any discussion? If not, the question is, shall32.

House Bill 2522 pass. Those in favor will vote Nay. Those opposed

373

2.

).

4.

6.

7.

8.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

will vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish?

Have a11 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question,

the Ayes are 50, the Nays are 2, none Voting Present. House

Bill 2522 having received the constitutional majority is declared.passed. Top of page 21, House Bill 2545, Senator Merlo. On the

Order of House Bills, 3rd reading, is House Bill 2545. Read the


SECRETARY:

House Bill 2545.



PRESIDENT:

Senator Merlo.

SENATOR MERLO:

Mr. President, 2526 first. 1...1'.11 take that one first, if

you wish and then go back.

PRESIDENT:

It was amended today. Can't call it.

SENATOR MERLO:

I understand. Okay. 2545. Mr. President and members of

the Senate, this bill was on the Agreed List and I had it recalled

for an amendment and so we find it now on 3rd reading. It's

simple bill. It provides for the staggering of terms for the

seven member board of directors of the public township libraries.

This bill is needed to provide continuity in conducting library

business. It's one that's in..vsupported by the Library Association

and I ask your favorable consideration.

PRESIDENT:

Is there qny discussion? If not, the question shall

House Bill 2545 pass. Those in favor will vote Aye. Those opposed

wi' 11 vote Nay. The voting is open. Have a11 voted who wish?

Have al1 voted who wish? Take the record. On that question,

the Ayes are 53, the Nays are none, none Voting Present. House

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

14.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

19.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

Bill 2545 having received the constitutional majority is declared

passed...Yes, Senator Maragos, for what purpose do you arise?

SENATOR MARAGOS:

Unfortunately, I wasn't at my desk at the time this vote and

I would have voted Aye if I was...

PRESIDENT:

The Journal will so reflect. On the Order of House Bills,

3rd reading, House Bill 2547. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY:

House Bill 2547.



SENATOR D'ARCO:

Mr...

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

Maybe it's appropriate that a baby was cryinq in the gallery

because this is a new idea we have here and just like a new baby.

This amends the Insurance Code by creating the Illinois...lnsurance

Exchange. What this will doy is create an exchange like the Lloydis

of London for people who wish to insure high risk type of situations.

What you would have to do is suscribe to the exchange in the amount

of thirty thousand or more and we would...you would need a capitali-

zation of two million dollars to form a syndicate and there would

be exchange brokers on the floor of the exchange bidding on the

various insurable risks that are before the exchange. The minimum

amount of insurable risks that can be insured is a premium of

fifty thousand dollars. I don't know of any objection to the bill.It's a new idea. I would be happy to ask any...answer any questions

on the bill and I would ask for a favorable vote.

PRESIDENT :

Further discussion? Senator Rupp.

2.

3.

4.

5.

8.

9.

l0.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

20.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

SENATOR RUPP:

Thank you, Mr. President. I think that baby was crying. It

was a very alert child. He was crying because he realized what

this bill was, I think. This bill is a new idea, but iEls too new

as far as some of the arrangements in it are concerned. It is not

an exact duplicate of Lloyd's of London and there are some factors

of that are not attrackive. That is a...if it were a duplicate

of Lloyd's of London, I think it would be a fine arrangement, but

there are some differences and because of that, I ask for a No

vote on this bill.

PRESIDENT:

Any further discussion? Senator D'Arco, do you wish to close

the debate?

SENATOR D'ARCO:

Yes, Mr. President, there...let me...let me say that there's

going to be a fee charged to the exchange that will bring back a

premium to the State of some five million dollars a year in fees

to the General Revenue Fund and New York has already enacted a

1aw that would create an.- an insurance exchange in New York to

compete with Lloy/'s of London and it is my understanding that

theyfrem..they're having some problems functioning the exchange

and that our bill is- .has much stricter requirements in it and

it does provide and I think this is very interesting, that a

syndicate can only write a risk in the amount of ten percent of

the amount of its total capitqc ization, so they...they canlt over-

extend themselves to the...to the point of liquidation and it also

provides for a guarantee fund and each syndicate would have to pay

a fee into the fund in case there was a liquidation. There are

many safeguards in this bill to protect the consumer against any

type of insurable risks that khe exchange is willing to write.

ask for a favorable vote. It is a new idea and it's going to

create a 1ot of jobs for people to work. Thank you very much.*

PRESIDENT:

376

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

9.

9.

l0.

11.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:


PRESIDENT:

He indicates he will yield. Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

Senator, unfortunately I have nok had the opportunity to read'

the whole bill. As I understand it, you're establishing an insurance

exchange, but what provision is there for the actual insurance? Is

the exchange acting as an insurance company and if so, what is the

capitalization? We don't allow an insurance company or a

group of individuals to write insurance for any kind of premiums

unless there is adequate funding to satisify claims. Now, youfre

talking about big money...permiums here, fifty thousand and over.

What's the capitalization for this?

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

Before the exchange becomes functional, there must be a total

of four million dollars that would have to be received by a interim

board of directors that would be appointed by the Governor to under-

take this task. Once the four million dollar minimum becomes a...

is received then the board of directors would apply for a certificate

of authoriky from the Department of Insurance and that would legalize

them to operate this exchange and it would take in order...in order

to belong to the exchange, you would have to have.m.you would have to

have a syndicate of two million- .each syndicate would have to be

capitalized in the amount of two million dollars and they can only

insure up to ten percent of their total amount of capitalization to

prevent them from overinsuring on any risks. It's much more

restrictive than Lloyd's of London and .it- -who.- who wants this bill,

huh? Anybody. You want to be a suscriber, come up with thirty

thousand dollars. We'l1 a11 pitch We'll get two million dollars

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

377

1.

3.

4.

5.

6.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

together and werll form a syndicate.

PRESIDENT :

FurEher discussion? Senator Berning.

SENATOR BERNING:

Senator, I'm sorry. still don't understand. What is the...

what is the framework? Is this an insurance company or this a

syndicate of insurance companies? Four million dollars is not

going to be adequate capital to withstand the potential claims for

premiums of fifty thousand dollars or two million dollars.

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

No. All the four million dollars does,is activate the mechanism

start the exchange into operation. The...you know, al1 the insurance

companies are going to participate in this exchange.

SENATOR BERNING:

That's what I wanted to know.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

Is that what you wanted to know? Okay, now you know.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Ozinga.

SENATOR OZINGA :

A question.

PRESIDENT:24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

3û.

3l.

32.

33.

He indicates he will yield.

SENATOR OZINGA:

Wouldn't this be a facility that could be used, Senator D'Arco...

wouldn't this be a facility that could be used by a group of dpctors

or a hospital in order to cover their malpractice?

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

The...I...yeah# it could be used for that purpose.

378

1.

2.

3.

4.

FRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Weaver.

SENATOR WEAVER:

Senator D'Arco, would they be handling Workmen's Comp, also?

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

That question #as brought up. If the minimum premium was

fifty thousand or more they.- they would be able to handle

Workmen's Comp...they would...their...usually going to handle

high risk situations and there wouldn't be a necessity, really,

to handle Workmen Compensation.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Collins.

SENATOR COLLINS:

Are there any controls or limitations on rates- .regulations

for rate control?

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

This bill has nothing to do with rate making...rate...you

mean rate making?

PRESIDENT:

Senator Collins.

SENATOR COLLINS:

Control over the cost of premium. How...how are they going

to do...you're saying they're going like bid for...for the contracts

or something...insurance premiums.

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

What it amounts to- .it amounts to an operation.- l don't...

I don't know if you're familiar with bookies and how they operate.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

379

1.

2.

4.

5.

6.

Oh, well.- you knowr they...they...they take a...like ten thousand

dollars on a bet that they make with a better and then they sell

off some of that bet Eo another bookie. This is what I was told.

I mean, I don't know myself, personally and so they...they don't

want to take al1 the rksks themselves, so they reinsure their own

risk with another- -is that what you want to know?

PRESIDENT:

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

14.

l5.

l6.

l7.

18.

l9.

20.

Yes, Senator Collins.

SENATOR COLLINS:

Okay.

PRESIDENT:

I didnlt want him to take up your time. Senator.

SENATOR COLLINS:

Senator- .senator D'Arco, as chairman of that...you are

Chairman of the Insurance Committee and 1...1 think you were

very concerned about keeping all of the insurance rateing bills

in committee to study them and to come up with the more reasbnable

package of bills dealing with insurance. You say this is a new

idea. Why didn't you leave this one in there and study it a little

more?

PRESIDENT:

Senator D'Arco.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

SENATOR D'ARCO:

No, we...and if you look at 961, which we hope to pass on

3rd reading, we came up with about five viable alternatives that

we thought would help alleviate the problem of the increased

costs' of a premium to the consumer. If you read that bill, you'll...

youfll see that we provide al1 kinds of mechanisms for underinsurance

and uninsurance and bodily injury and liability to provide that

the.- consumer is going to get a fair break. It's a comprehensive

package of bills. You heard Senator Johns just Table the otherbills that were related to that 'cause we put everything in one

comprehensive package. Senator Rupp and I worked on it very hard

380

p *r

l410 qh(.

.kb

t.

2.

).

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

12.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

and we hope that it will alleviate some of the problem that.- in

the insurance industry.

PRESIDENT:

There are six members who have indicated their desire to

speak. Senator D'Arco, I wonder if we might strike a bargain and

we'll take this out of the record and start there tomorrow. Ts that

fair? So we...I think some of the membership has indicated they

have dinner plans and people waiting on them, so we're just going

to try to...al1 right. Earlier...earlier in the day, with leave of

the Body, we will return to the Order of House Bills, 2nd reading.

Senator Graham has a bill he wishes advanced to the Order of 3rd

reading. With leave of the Body, we'll go to that Order and then

we have a number of messages and a couple of motions to clean up

and then we can adjourn until nine o'clock tomo<row morning. Mr.secretary, on the Order of House Bills, 2nd reading, resides House

Bill 1400. Read the bill, Mr. Secretary.

18.

l9.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

(END OF REEL)

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

tP q .tt

jj; pY- . v stz s c # l lk ï

1. SECRETARY:

House Bill 1400.


2nd reading of the bill. No committee amendments.

PRESIDENT:

Are there any amendments from the Floor?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. l offered by Senato'r Graham.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAHAM:

Yes, Mr. President, and members of the Senate. This is

an amendpent to this little bill that the Speaker held up,

they had it about three months, weîre going to have about

three days. Mine's technical in nature, it corrects some

typo''errors, and changes the words from commerce to revenue

where they apply. I move its adoption.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Graham has moved the adoption of Amendment No.

to House Bill 1400. Is Ehere any discussion? If not, all

in favor signify by saying Aye. A1l opposed. The Ayes have

it. The amendment is adopted. Any furEher amendments?

SECRETARY:

Amendment No. 2 offered by Senator Netsch.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Netsch.

SENATOR NETSCH:

Thank you, Mr. President. Amendment No. 2 would delete

the language which in effect would transfer certain responsibilities

with respect to information about...rates from BED Eo DOT.

The feeling is that thak funckion already is in BED and it

should remàin there, I have cleared this amendment with the

House sponsor of thehbill, and I would move its adoption.

3.

4.

5.

6.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

17.

l8.

l9.

20.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

382

PRESIDENT:

A11 right, Senator Netsch has moved the adoption of

Amendment No. 2 Eo House Bill 1400. Is there any discussion?

Senator Graham.

SENATOR GRAHAM:

want to compliment the genial Sënator from Chicago,

she had a hundred and forEy-three amendmenEs and she boiled

it down to one. approve its adoption.

PRESIDENT:

A11 right, Senator Neksch has moved the adoption of

Amendment No. 2 to House Bill 1400. Is there any discussion?

If not, a1l in favor signify by saying Aye. All opposed.

The Ayes have The amendment is adopted. Any further

amendments?

SECRETARY:


PREAIDENT:

3rd reading. Messages from the House.

SECRETARY:

A Message from the House by Mr. O'Brien, Clerk.

Mr. President am directed to inform the Senate

the House of Representatives has concurred with the Senate

in the passage of the followin bills, together with HouseF.. .a request for concurrence in House amendments:

Senate Bill 905, with House Amendment No. 6,7, and 8.

Senate Bill 906, with House Amendments No. l and 2.

Senate Bill 745, with House Amendments No. l and 2.

Senate Bill 1172, with House Amendments l and 2.

PRESIDENT:

Secretaryls Desk Concurrence.

SECRETARY:

A Message from the House by Mr. O'Brien, Clerk.

Mr. Prepident am directed to inform the Senate

the House of Representatives has refused to concur with the

3.

4.

5.

6.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

383

@kyA.

yr/ Ask v. sfvx !4,J

2.

3.

6 .

7 .

8 .

l 0 .

l l .

1 2. .

l 3 .

. l4.

l5.

l6.

Senate in the bills with the following titles- .House Bills

with Ehe following titles together with Senate Amendments:

House Bill 437, with Senate Amendment No. 2, and 3.

House Bill 440, with Senate Amendmenk No.

House Bill 524, with Senate Amendment No .

House Bill 1119, with Senate Amendment No.

House Bill 1048, with Senate Amendment No.

PRESIDENT:

Secretary's Desk Non.concurrence. Senator Graham for

what purpose do you rise?

SENATOR GRAHAM:

I wish Grotberg would never go Eo the bathroom, but he

did this time, and they have another amendment they'd like

to try on 1400 as long as we havendt..-to get it ready for

tomorrow .

PRESIDENT:

You really have to be kidding. Is there leave to return

House Bill 1400...on the Order of House Bills 3rd readingr is

House Bill 1400. Is there leave to return thaE bill to Ehe

Order of 2nd reading for purposes of an amendment? Leave

is granted. On Ehe Order of House Bills 2nd reading, is House

Bill 1400. Mr. Secretary, further amendments?

SECRETARY: *

Amendment No. 3 offered by Senator Grotberg.

PRESIDENT:

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.Senator Grotberg.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

SENATOR GROTBERG:

Yes, this places the name of Ehis new department as the

Department of Commerce and Community Affairsy that's a11

does. Commerce and Community Affairs, that's the name change.

It's asked for by the Administration.'

PRESIDENT:

there any discussion? Senator Netsch.

384

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

ll.

l2.

SENATOR NETSCH:

If it had been that way from the beginning, maybe so,bu't

the...this is more than the eleventh hour, it would involve

restructuring and five hundred and forty-Ewo page bill. It

is just impossible, it was agreed when the bill left the House,

and sometime ago that it would be called the Department of

Commerce and wikh al1 due respect, Senator Grotberg, I think

it is just too late to try to make that change now.PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator McMillan.

SENAYOR MCMILLAN:

Well, Senator Netsch, would only add, if you want to

go back to the beginning, the Executive Ordery and so forth

called for khe...creation of DepartmenE of Commerce and

Community Affairs. IE wasJthe Chamber of Commerce whose

idea it was to have a Department of Commerce and they didn't

want another thing with they wanted it pure, so if wefre

talking about the substance of the Executive Order,and the

substance of the reorganization it becomes the Department

of Commerce and Community Affairs, and I think those people

that have interest in the community affairs functions of it

very well deserve to have the name of the department so theyîll

know where to seek assistance.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Graham. Senator Netsch.

SENATOR NETSCH:

I recognize thak, Senator McMillan,but the decisiön t to

make it the Department of Commerce was worked out with the

Governor's people in the House before that bill ever left, and

I'm sorry, I just think it is too laEe to make the change now.

There is no way that we could redo this five hundred and forty-

two page bill and skill get it passed. So I would hope that the

.. .it would have been nice if it started out thaE way,but it did

l4.

l6.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

33.

385

2.

3.

4.

6.

7.

8.

not, and I think now it has just got to remain the way

it is, the bill.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Did you have a hearing. No, no.

PRESIDENT:

Further discussion? Senator Grotberg may close.

SENATOR GROTBERG:

Well, in al1 deference to the Lady from Cook, we got

*he bill yesterday. The Senate sponsor has been very quiet

until now, as to whaE was going to happen. The amendment

is here, it just by reference changes the name a11 the wayEhrough no matter what happens to Ehis bill, it's...this

doesn't change a five hundred page bill substantively, it

does what we do here every day,it changes the name, and I

see no real reason for any objection to it, let's just putit on, the House is going to have to concur with .us.

ultimately anyway, so let's change the name and send it back.

I move the adoption of Amendment No.

PRESIDENT:

senator Grotberg has moved the adoption of Amendment No.

3 to House Bill 1400. A roll call has been requested. Those

in favor of the amendment will vote Aye. Those opposed will

vote Nay. The voting is open. Have all voEed who wish? Have

all voted who èish? Take the record. On that question,the

Ayes are 3l, the Nays are None Voting Present. The

amendmentls adopted. Further amendments?

SECRETARY:


PRESIDENT:

3rd reading. senator Bruce for what purpose do you

rise?

l0.

ll.

l2.

l3.

14.

l5.

l6.

l8.

l9.

20.

2l.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

28.

29.

30.

31.

32.

33.

386

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

ll.

l2.

13.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

19.

20.

21.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Yes, Mr.

understands,

32.

33.

President, as Senate sponsor, so that everyone

of House Bill 2410, which just passed this Body

47 to something or other, I would move to reconsider t#evote by which that bill passed, because certain members have

gotten exerised about it and think there are problems created

for the, I guess the foursome that run this Body, the four

members of the Appropriations Committee, I'm sure are looking

at this thing feverishly, so i would move to reconsider thevote by which that bill passed, and put it back on 3rd reading

so everyone can take a second look at this piece of legislation.

is on the Calendar, yes it passed today.

PRESIDENT:

On the Order...

SENATOR BRUCE:

And I am the sponsor, no tricks.

PRESIDENT:

On the Order of Motions in Writing. Senator Bruce has

moved to reconsider the vote by which House Bill 2410 has

passed. A roll call is required, 30 affirmative votes are

necessary. Senator Walsh.

SENATOR WALSH:

I'm sorry Senator Bruce. I missed the reason for your...

for your request.

PRESIDENT:

Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Well, frankly, Senator Carroll has taken a look at it and

we have some evidently contractual employees, who are on

contractual because we don't want them to have Workmen'ls Compensat'ion,

Unemployment Comps , and other benefitsy and they would like to

dheck quickly, to see whether this particular piece of

legislation is going to play havoc with some of the budgets. I'm

a very reasonable individual, even at 9:10 o'clock at nighk, and so

387

1.

3.

4.

5.

6.

bill, and I'm asking you to join with me to re-itls my

consider it, so we can put it on the Calendar, and the

four...df the apocalypse can take a look at it,

and decide what they want to do tomorrow.

PRESIDENT:

Is ther further discussion? Senator Walsh.

SENATOR WALSH:

If the motion is filed would it be all right to call the'

i tomorrow?mot on

PRESIDENT:

It would be all right to call the.motion tomorrow, I'm sure.

The Motion is filed it will be placed on the Calendar. Further

Motions in Writing. Have Ehero ..any further been filed, Mr.

Secretary.

SECRETARY:

yes, I have a Motion in Writing filed by Senator Demuzio,

to reconsider the vote on which House Bi1l...

PRESIDENT:

Senator Demuzio.

SENATOR DEMUZIO:

1...1 don't know the number, didn't keep a copy of

but it's Senator Coffey's bill, and he's perfect agree-

ment, and I donft see him on the Floor. Senator

Bruce has indicated he has talked with him, perhaps I could

yield to Senator Bruce. I didn't keep a copy of the bill, Ehe

bill number.

PRESIDENT:

A11 right, the Motion in Writing has been filed with leave

of the Body we'll place it on the Calendar, and consider it:

tomorrow. Leave is granted. Further Motions in Writing?

SECRETARY:

No further Motions in Writing.

PRESIDENT:

I think thak motion of your's has already been filed and placed.

8.

9.

l0.

l2.

l3.

11.

l5.

16.

l7.

l8.

l9.

20.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

32.

33.

388

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

l0.

on the Calendar, Senator MiEchler. We can adequately deal

with that tomorrow, also. Further business or further

annoucements? Senator Bruce.

SENATOR BRUCE:

Mr. President, I think we ought to remind the members that

9:00 olclock in the morning, I think you had said we're going

to go to Ehe Agreed Bill List...

PRESIDENT:

That is correct.

SENATOR BRUCE:

. ..and those objections or No votes, since we got into

some discussion last week will have to be filed by 9:00 o'clock

as I understand it.

PRESIDENT:

That is correct.

SENATOR BRUCE:

All right, so, Agreed Bill List, if you have objections, andwant to vote No, have your list into the Secretary by 9:00 o'clock

tomorrow morning.

PRESIDENT:

Is there any further business to come before the Senate this

evening ? not,senator Vadalabene moves that we stayr-another

hour. Is that the.- that's not the motion, oh, okay. Senator

Vadalabene moves that the Senate stand adjourned until Wednesday

June 27th, at the hour of nine a.m. Senate stands adjourned.

?1

i(END OF REEL)

l2.

l3.

l4.

l5.

l6.

l7.

l8.

20.

22.

23.

24.

25.

26.

27.

28.

29.

30.

3l.

32.

3!.

389

l2. mr.president. i move that the journal just read by · g thank you, lv. president, and ladies...

Documents