DE SUN DO MOVE CRITIQUE by Herb Evans(An Examination of 50 Selected Passages by Jack Mooreman)

John Jasper, the converted Negro slave turned preacher, preached a famous sermon called “De Sun Do move.” Einstein claimed that it did not matter whether one says that the sun moves or the earth moves, since it is relative, so we have no problem taking John Jasper’s observation or those involved in the battle on it. There are a company of KJO believers as well as a company of non-KJO folks who believe in geocentricity, which insists that the earth is stationary, unmovable, and does not rotate or spin and that the sun revolves around the earth. Geocentrists attempt to back up their many scientific claims with Bible proof texts. For the most part, their verses are metaphorical and can be made to prove either argument. The enormity of the universe is great. Still, the enormity of God is greater (Omnipresent) in that the heavens (all three) are but a span of God’s hand. – Herb Evans

Genesis 28:11-13Gen 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all

night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

Isa 66:1: . . . heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool . . . Mooreman: The ladder (a type of Christ, John 1:51) connects heaven

to earth. As with Isaiah 66:1, the heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool, the earth is stationary with reference to the throne of God. There is no thought here of a rotating and revolving earth. The earth is not moving beneath the ladder. This is also one of the Bibles ascending and descending passages. See at Ephesians 4:8-10 for a list of seventeen of these passages. They show that there is a direct rather than a circuitous link between the earth and the Throne of God in Heaven and as such demonstrate geocentricity.

Evans: The “sun was set” where; if the sun continually moves around the earth. Does it ever physically set (28:11)? Since there are three heavens, which one is meant here (28:12)? Notice God’s metaphors for His ladder, heavenly throne, and earthly footstool make suspect those who take advantage by making an argument for geocentricity by using the nuances of language. In regard to the direct link of the ladder, which part of the earth is God’s footstool? And which part of heaven is God’s throne? Better watch out that the Bible’s ladder does not hit the revolving universe in between earth and heaven.

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Joshua 10:12-14Joshua 10:12 – 14: Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when

the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Job 9:6, 7: Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.

Hab 3:11: The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went . . .

Mooreman: In today's cosmology, the sun is stationary with reference to the earth and the moon is in motion, but here both are said to be moving, and both are made to stand still. Therefore the statement that the moon stayed is correct, but that the sun stood still is incorrect. How can it stand still if it is not moving? How can there be truth and false hood in two immediately parallel statements? Further, as heliocentrism requires that the earth would have to cease its rotational movement; it is to be noted that nothing in this account is said of the earth at all.

Every statement concerns the movement of the sun and moon. For the earth to suddenly or even gradually stop its rotation, a further miracle would be required to prevent it being overwhelmed by catastrophe. Many believe that for convenience, as men did not then know that the earth rotated, the Holy Spirit is presenting this miracle in the language of appearance rather than actuality.

The Bible says the sun stood still, but actually "it was the earth that stood still". This would set a serious precedent: i.e. that the Bible from time to time presents things only as they appear to be, not as they really are. James Hanson notes that even if it were the earth rather than the sun that stood still, this would still not solve the problem this passage presents for heliocentricity.

The Bible states that the sun and moon stood still, that is, they did not move. If, however, the earth stopped rotating, or if it flipped its axis; and if Copernicus were correct, then there is still the residual motion of earth about the sun, which would cause the sun to move through twice its diameter during Joshua's long day.

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Mooreman Continued: Even worse is the case for the moon, for stopping the earth in no way stops the moon's independent motion about the earth, which, in one day, amounts to 13 degrees or a movement of about 26 lunar diameters. (The Bible and Geocentricity, p.47). The event here is to be taken in the same literal manner as Christ walking on the water, the plagues of Egypt, the crossing of the Red Sea and countless other miracles. As Matthew Henry comments: "at the word of Joshua, the sun stopped immediately".

EVANS: The geocentric argument is that the sun stood still with the implication that it was the sun that moves rather than the earth moving on its axis. Let us examine the scriptures pertaining to the supposed moving of the sun and moon in Joshua and Isaiah: Obviously, this was a miracle, but what kind is not apparent. The geocentrists will say that the Sun actually stopped and later even reversed its orbit around the earth; the heliocentric will say that the earth stopped rotating. God can do either one, without the help of scientific explanation or the chance of catastrophe.” Still, these verses do not tell us whether the sun was moving and stopped or whether the earth was rotating and stopped. In regard to the miracle in Joshua and Isaiah, it could have happened by the earth stopping its rotation or it could have happened by the sun actually stopping. Nevertheless, being a miracle, it could have happened as a result of the whole universe stopping. Still, this is the record which tells us what happened per the observation of the men who saw it.

1. The Sun stood still. 2. The Sun did so in the midst of heaven or sky.3. The moon stayed or stood still as well. 4. The phenomena lasted for a whole day. 5. The sun was said to “not go down” during that time. 6. Also, the sun dial went forward and backward 10 degrees (40

minutes)We cannot see anything but this phenomena happening in the middle

of the sky from man’s view and perspective, since it is men that are being advantaged and/or disadvantaged by this occurrence. Is the midst of heaven the midst of the sky or is the midst of heaven 93 million miles or farther with heaven’s end being 186 million miles away? It is very important to define one’s terms in discussion like this, especially if you want to inject science into the argument.

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Judges 5:20, 31Judges 5:20: They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought

against Sisera. Judges 5:31: So let all thine enemies perish, O LORD: but let them that love

him be as the sun when he goeth forth in his might. Psa 19:4 – 6: Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to

the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Mooreman: Mesillah (courses) is usually translated "highway", i.e. highways in OT Israel, but it is never said that the earth itself is on a mesillah. Compare the sun's circuit (Psalm 19:6). As a strong man to run a race, Psalm 19:5. We do not read in Scripture of the going forth of the earth.

EVANS: The sun and all the heavenly bodies have courses and circuits but what those courses and circuits are is another matter. Because the Bible says something about one thing does not demand that it be said of another, unless you make your own rules? Nevertheless, there is said to be an ordinance of the earth that Mooreman missed in Jeremiah 33:25. What are heaven and its ends here? The horizons? What does the nothing that is hid from its heat mean?

1 Samuel 2:8I Samuel 2:8: …for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he

hath set the world upon them. Mooreman: A rotating, revolving earth set upon pillars is a

contradiction. These pillars find further expression in Hebrews 1:3…upholding all things by the word of his power.

EVANS: How so except it have an axis? What exactly and specifically are those pillars or columns? If heaven has pillars as well as earth, does that mean that heaven does not move as well? Where are the ends of the earth? At the horizons? How so if the earth turns as clay to the seal (design instrument)? Brother Mooreman never saw my grandson spin a basketball on his index finger. Did he ever see a gyroscope?

Job 26:11: The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

Job 38:13, 14: That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as clay to the seal . . .

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II Kings 20:9-11II Kings 20:9-11: And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the

LORD . . . shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees? And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees. And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz. The sun dial went backward and forward 10 degrees [40 minutes.]

Mooreman: Was this action of the shadow caused by the earth reversing its rotation, or by the sun reversing its revolution around a stationary earth? Isaiah 38:8 says it was the sun that returned. "Whether this retrograde motion of the sun was gradual or per salutm - suddenly - whether it went back at the same pace that it used to go forward, which would make the day ten hours longer than usual - or whether it darted back on a sudden, and, after continuing a little while, was restored again to its usual place, so that no change was made in the state of the heavenly bodies (as the learned bishop Patrick thinks) - we are not told." Matthew Henry.

EVANS: Exactly; we are not told how it happened! Stalemate! Obviously, if the earth could rotate counterclockwise, it is no harder to rotate clockwise. At the speed the sun is implied to travel, it seems to be much harder. It is a miracle either way, whether the sun stops or the earth stops. Can you imagine the cosmic speed of the sun as it revolves around the earth? One need only measure the sun’s radius at 93,000 miles to get the circumference of its supposed circuit around the earth and divide by 24 hours to get the MPH. Our guess is that would be a third the speed of light at 186,000 miles per second or 667,800,000 MPH. The same mathematical formula may be done with the closest star to get its orbital circumference being way beyond the speed of light in one 24 hour day.

I Chronicles 16:30, 311 Chron. 16: 30. 31: Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be

stable, that it be not moved. Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: Judges 5:20: . . . they fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought

against Sisera. Job 9:6 – 8: Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars

thereof tremble. Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

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Psa 96:10: Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved . . .

Psa 99:1: The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.

Isa 13:13: Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Isa 24:19, 20: The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Jer 33:25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven AND EARTH . . .

Rev 20:11: And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Mooreman: The earth has a place, not a path. Not courses, Judges 5:20. Not a circuit, Psalm 19:6. Not a going forth, Judges 5:39 (There is no Judge 5:39; perhaps Psalm 19:6 is meant.). The earth is moved from her place only in times of judgment. The command in verse 7 is specifically directed to the sun, nothing is said of God commanding the earth in its rotational movement. It is only in times of judgment, especially that of the last days, that the earth is said to move (Job 9:6; Psalm 99:1; Isaiah 13:13; 24:19, 20; Revelation 20:11). At all other times it is stable and not moved. Compare Psalm 96:10. Job 9:6-8

EVANS: Let us examine this doctrine by innuendo and inference and suggestion. While we can agree that the earth has a place and shall be shaken out of that place (Job 9:6 - 8), we cannot agree that the earth does not have a path. We also can agree that the Lord can command the sun to do what the Lord wants. The mechanics of those events are not mentioned. Psalm 96:10 seems to favor our view in that it must not yet be established while still moving for it to be said that it SHALL be established and it SHALL not be moved exceedingly (Isaiah 24:19, 20) and even removed out of HER place in the future (Isaiah 13:13). To be fled AWAY (Revelation 20:11) suggests a big, big, move. We have no problem with the sun, moon, planets AND stars having circuits as well as the earth; we do have a problem with these circuits not being biblically defined as to what they are. Still we are not about to accept the extra scriptural scientific theories above the Bible’s truth.

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EVANS Continued: We have a problem with the circuits of the sun and stars demanding that the earth have no circuits as opposed to the other planets. We do not understand the point which Mooreman makes about the starts fighting in Judges 5:20. While we can sympathize with some catastrophic consequences by the moving of the earth and heaven as they are fled away in the future, but that does not have to necessarily be the case. Still, we do not see the future end time events as very significant when compared to today’s observations or to the Old Testament observations.

Jer 33:25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven AND EARTH . . .

Job 22:14 and the Circuit of HeavenJob 22:14: Thick clouds are a covering to him, and that he seeth not;

and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. Jer 33:25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and

night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven AND EARTH . . .

Mooreman: The Hebrew word chug is translated "circuit", "circle" and "compass". The sun (Psalm 19:6), and the heavens have a circuit (both atmospheric and celestial) in which they move around the earth. Compare the stars in their courses, Judges 5:20. We do not read of the earth having a circuit.

EVANS: One must contend that the clouds covering HIM and Him walking the circuit of heaven are highly poetic and metaphoric. As we said, we do not deny that the sun, the moon, the planets as having circuits, ordinances, or circular orbits. Beyond that, we await the biblical proof of what those circuits are. When something is said about one thing that does not demand that it is to be said of another. Nevertheless, what about what is said about the ordinance or circuit of the EARTH?

Job 26:7, the Earth and the Empty PlaceJob 26:7: He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and

hangeth the earth upon nothing. Lutheran Geradus Bouw: The earth is not said to hang from the sun

in a gravitational orbit, but upon nothing. This is in contrast to Newton and Einstein who insist that there must always be some center of mass, some concentration of material upon which gravitation must be "fastened". (Gerardus Bouw, Geocentricity, p. 139).

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Mooreman: Christ upholds all things by the word of his power, Hebrews 1:3. "The art of man could not hang a feather upon nothing, yet divine wisdom hangs the whole world so." Matthew Henry. Note that this verse also teaches that in God's creation there is an absolute north.

EVANS: The Bible says nothing about gravity either way. And who really cares that much about what Newton and Einstein say? God does not need Bouw, Newton, or Einstein, gravity, or a center of mass to hang the earth upon nothing. Still, these things do not demand geocentricity.

Job 37:18Job 37:18: Hast thou with him spread out the sky , which is strong,

and as a molten looking glass? Mooreman: So strong that that the Second Day was given solely to

its creation. So strong that it could receive and support the placement of the sun, moon and stars, (Genesis 1:14-17). So strong that it can be referred to as the firmament of his power, Psalms 150:1. The firmament has properties that are incomprehensible to us. "When we look up to heaven above we should remember it is a mirror or looking-glass, not to show us our own faces, but to be a faint representation of the purity, dignity, and brightness of the upper world and its glorious inhabitants." Matthew Henry.

EVANS: Which heaven are we to understand as “heaven” and what does “firmament” mean? Did Joshua’s sun stand still in the midst of heaven or in the midst of this sky as men viewed it? Is the sky strong in your not so clear analogy?

Job 38:4-7Job 38:4-7: Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the

earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Mooreman: It is far more natural and reasonable to equate an earth at rest with foundations, than one that is rotating, tilting and revolving.

EVANS: The terms “reasonable” and “natural” are in the eye of the beholder. Did you ever hear of a Merry-go-round or a Ferris wheel having foundations yet still going around? Even your authority, Einstein, claims that either one can be said to be moving, depending on whether you are on it or viewing it.

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Job 38:12-14Job 38:12-14: Hast thou . . . . caused the dayspring to know his place;

That it might take hold of the ends of the EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? IT is turned as clay to the seal . . .

Mooreman: Referring to "turned” in verse 14, some have said this refers to the turning of the earth and therefore a (sole!) passage has at last been found which supports heliocentricity.

It does not! It is the dayspring - the sun - which knows his place, and therefore moves. When its light beams take hold on the ends of the earth, the effect is as complete and prevailing as clay filling the impression of a seal. As the clay moves upward filling completely all of the crevices, so in the same irresistible way the earth is turned up exposing the wicked to the light of the sun (v 13). It is much like a farmer, turning up the soil, exposing rocks, worms etc. In the coming Day of the Lord there will be no hiding place! Revelation 6:16.

EVANS: Indeed, some have said! Nevertheless, If the sun has a place, as your proof text says, how does it have a path but the earth does not have a path? Since Mooreman is an expert on antecedents, we will challenge him as to what the “IT” is in this passage. Earth? Mooreman must have a wall mounted potters’ wheel to suggest such a wild, strained, stretched, and pontificated explanation. Methinks that Brother Mooreman does not grasp the significance of the “seal” in that it is an instrument that puts marks to the clay as it turns rather than removing them. If the sun has a place like the earth, how does it move in a path?

Job 38:31-33Job 38:31-33: Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the

bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

Mooreman: Job is challenged in these verses as to his inability to control the movements of the constellations. Can he bind Pleiades? Loose Orion? Guide Arcturus? Can he control their movements from the earth (verse 33)? Can Job bring forth Massaroth in his season? According to Bullinger, Massaroth refers to the yearly unfolding of the twelve signs of the Zodiac, (The Witness of the Stars, p.8). Satan has been successful in perverting the testimony of the stars. Secular astronomy and heathen astrology has all but obliterated their ancient message of Biblical truth.

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Evans: Knowest thou the ordinance of earth, Brother Mooreman? Can you control earth’s movements? According to Bullinger, souls sleep. Selah! Think of that! So much for human authorities!

Jer 33:25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven AND EARTH . . .

Psalm 19:1-6Psalm 19:1-6: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament

sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Mooreman: Four statements are here made about solar motion. The sun is spoken of as: coming out, running a race, going forth, and having a circuit. Nothing similar is said in any passage of Scripture about the movement of the earth. Of the sixth verse Gerardus Bouw writes: “The sixth verse is eminently Christological. The motion of the sun is there linked to the emergence of the bridegroom…The Authorized Bible starts the verse with the personal pronoun, "his", thus reinforcing the type to the bridegroom and also the Christology of the verse.

Modern versions start this verse with "its" and thus deny the person of Christ as being evident in this verse and so also deny that the sun is a type of Christ in this passage. The sun's circuit (verse 6) takes it around the zodiac, yearly tracing the gospel as told in the stars: starting from the nativity (Virgo) to the sacrificial death, resurrection, and final triumph as the Lion of Judah which is reflected in the constellation of Leo, the lion. (Lutheran Gerardus Bouw, Geocentricity, pp. 83, 84).”

It is said that verse six must refer to the sun's galactic circuit in the Milky Way, as the sun's circuit around the earth is too small in comparison to the size of the universe. However, by the same comparison, a galactic circuit is not much larger. Further, as by definition a circuit must have a closed and repeated path, a galactic "circuit" for the sun will not meet again at the same point, and will certainly not begin to complete a revolution around a galactic centre within the creationist time frame.

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Mooreman Continued: Thus, only in a geocentric system can the sun's motion be described in terms of a circuit. Verse 6 coupled with passages like Revelation 6:13 (See Note) indicate that the universe is not as large as thought today and is more in line with what previous ages considered the size of the celestial heavens to be. The concluding verse of this Psalm is pertinent as a summary to the geocentric aspects of this Psalm.

“Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.19:14.” [How relevant -- Evans: ???]

Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up. Psalm 28:5. [How relevant -- Evans: ???]

"In order that the Creationist's words and meditations 'be acceptable' in the Lord's sight, he must say and think what God has revealed through nature and Scripture." (Strouse, p.29). [How relevant -- Evans: ???]

EVANS: Must refer? This is a circular argument which first assumes that the sun goes around the earth and then sets out to prove it by scripture. Psa 19:6 tells us that the sun in its going forth has a circuit. It also tells us that that circuit is from one end of heaven and his circuit is to the end of it. Are the ends of heaven the horizons? If not, what are the ends of heaven here? The ends of space? Does it mean that the ends of heaven are confined to the supposed orbit of the sun around the earth? Does it mean that beyond the earth nothing is hid from the heat of the sun? Are we to ignore that the earth has an ordinance as well as the sun and the stars and the heavens? We have no problem with the earth and stars having biblically having circuits; we do have a problem with these circuits not being defined as to what they are.

Jer 33:25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven AND EARTH . . .

Psalm 33:6-9Psalm 33:6-9: 6: By the word of the LORD were the heavens made;

and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast [H5975].

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Mooreman: The words, it stood fast (amad), in verse 9 summarizes God's creative works during the Creation Week. It must refer primarily to the earth itself, as the earth was the subject of the great majority of the creative actions of that First Week. He spake . . . commanded, compare these Ten Commandments in Genesis One: (1:3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24, 26, 28, 29).

EVANS: Obviously, if one has need of the Hebrew, the word “amad” is mostly translated “stood” as well as “stood still” or “stayed” and does not demand immovability. The same Hebrew word (H5975) is used of the sun AND the moon. Yes, God commanded and it was done with nothing said about the mechanics of that process or how it was done. It was a miracle regardless of the mechanics or as to how it was done. Nevertheless, we see no geocentricity in these events. Did the moon stand fast in creation? How so?

Joshua 10:13: And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, H5975 until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stoodH5975 still in the midst of heaven about a whole day. Did the moon also stand still in the midst of heaven?

Psalm 50:1Psalm 50:1 The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the

earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. Mooreman: God calls to the earth beneath a sun said to be in motion.

It is always so stated in Scripture. It is the sun that moves, the earth remains stationary. If it were the opposite, why do not once read of an example? Concerning this passage Thomas Strouse says: “The earth is the fixed focal point around which all cosmic movement revolves (page 23).”

EVANS: I am amazed at how many things geocentrists can get out of a verse that are not really there. God called the earth and not the sun. The sun does not go down or rise. Geocentrists say that it goes around and not up and down.

Psalm 74:16Psalm 74:16: The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the

light AND the sun. Mooreman: The light on the First Day and the sun on the Fourth Day

are both described in Genesis One as being secondary and subservient to the earth. We have shown there that they would both share the same kind of motion relative to the stationary earth.

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EVANS: Another circular argument that assumes a stationary earth. Obviously there were evenings and mornings with a dividing of the light and darkness without the sun until the fourth day. We see nothing about the sun being secondary and subservient to the earth anymore than being subservient to the pre-sun light. We have not been shown anything but doctrine by inference and doctrine by innuendo and suggestion.

Psalm 78:69Psa 78:69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which

he hath established H3245 for ever. Mooreman: The Hebrew for "established" is yasad, and means, "to

found," "to lay a foundation," and is thus frequently translated, (Young's Concordance). As His sanctuary is not moveable, the same would naturally apply to the earth. Compare Psalms 93:1; 96:10; 199:90.

EVANS: Here we have some more Hebrew with some logic sprinkled on it. Actually, Mooreman takes a lot of liberty with the word yasad (H3245), which has various renderings. Immobility is not inherent in the word. Yasad is not the only Hebrew word that is used for “establish,” none of which have immobility inherent in them. Not only is the earth established but also the sun, the heavens, the moon, houses, kingdoms, clouds, and even God’s throne and David’s throne. We find the emphasis on the Hebrew as “fixation” or “immobility” exaggerated and stretched. We also find the emphasis on founding and foundations as immovable to be exaggerated. We may note that the earth, the sun, and the throne are established in Psalm 89:36, 37 with the Hebrew word KOON. The heavens and the earth are founded (yasad); does that mean both are immovable? So much for doctrine by innuendo. The clouds are established but they move.

Established H3245(yasad); H3559 (koon); H6965 (koom); H539 (awman); H553 (awmats)

H3245 יסד yasad A primitive root; to set (literally or figuratively); intensively to found; reflexively to sit down together, that is, settle, consult: - appoint, take counsel, establish, (lay the, lay for a) found (-ation), instruct, lay, ordain, set, X sure.

Psa 24:2 For he hath foundedH3245 it upon the seas, and establishedH3559 it upon the floods.

Psa 89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast foundedH3245 THEM.

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Isa 14:32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath foundedH3245 Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

Hab 1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast establishedH3245 them for correction.

1 Sam 13:13 . . . for now would the LORD have established H559 thy kingdom upon Israel for ever.

2 Sam 7:16 . . . thy throne shall be established H3559 for ever. 1 Ki 2:45 . . . the throne of David shall be established H3559 before

the LORD for ever. 1 Chron 17:14 . . . and his throne SHALL BE established H3559 for

evermore. Psa 89:36, 37 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the

sun before me. It shall be established H3559 for ever AS THE MOON, and as a faithful witness in heaven.

Psa 119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established H3559 the earth, and it abideth.

Pro 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established H3559 the heavens.

Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established H3559 and he shall sit upon IT in truth in the tabernacle of David. . .

Lev 25:30 . . . the house that is in the walled city shall be established H6965 for ever to him . . .

1Chron 17:23 . . . his house be established H539 for ever, and do as thou hast said.

Pro 8:28 When he established H553 the clouds above when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

Psalm 93:1, 2 and Psalm 99:1Psalm 93:1, 2: The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the

LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished H3559, that it cannot be moved. Thy throne is established H3559 of old:

Psalm 99:1: The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved.

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1 Sam 2:8: . . . the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world H8398 upon them.

Mooreman: The passage says that the world cannot be moved. We therefore conclude that it is not moving. One must go to considerable lengths to explain how an earth that is rotating and revolving is somehow "not moving". One attempt is to say that it is the orbit rather than the world itself that cannot be moved. We would then, however, expect a different word or phrase than "moved". Perhaps: "moved from its path", or "changed", or "deflected"; certainly not the word "moved" by itself. Notice also that the world is here paralleled with the throne of God, which does not move. The same Hebrew word (kun = established) is used for both. "Though He has hanged the world upon nothing (Job 26:7), yet it cannot be moved". Matthew Henry. It is only in times of judgment, especially that of the last days, that the earth is said to move (I Chronicles 16:30, 31; Job 9:6; Isaiah 13:13; 24:19, 20; Revelation 20:11). At all other times it cannot be moved, Psalm 93:1.

EVANS: Baby Sprinkler Geradus Bouw scolded me for making the “earth” and the “world” synonymous. Now, his disciple is doing it. Still, they are used interchangeably at times. Nevertheless, the term “world” seems to include more than the earthly sphere. It includes the occupants and even the dust of the upper atmosphere.

Still, it does say that the “world” is established that it CANNOT be moved except by God but not that it never shall be move. The same thing can be said about the moon even though it moves on its own. What are the “pillars” that the earth is set upon, especially when the earth hangeth upon nothing?

Still what if the earth cannot be moved from the ordinance or circuit that it is said to have? Now, the Lord is from everlasting but His throne is from of OLD and His throne is not said that it is immovable. Nevertheless, both the earth and God’s throne were indeed established. This is a Hebrew word (H3559) that is also used in a variety of ways that do not demand immovability.

The world or earth cannot be moved by anyone but God, who will one day move it as Mooreman admits but confines the earth’s movement to the last time. Still, since Mooreman likes to dabble in the Hebrew, the word move (mote’ H4131) is used of the earth and people and does not seem to convey the idea that Mooreman is pushing. In fact, it seems to support heliocentricity in that it can mean to be moved out of course. I

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don’t see why we would have to expect a different word. Obviously, the term “cannot be moved” must be interpreted and explained.

Psa 90:2: . . . for ever thou hadst formed the earth and the worldH8398, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

Pro 8:26: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world H8398.

H4131 מוט mote' A primitive root; to waver; by implication to slip, shake, fall: - be carried, cast, be out of course, be fallen in decay, X exceedingly, fall (-ing down), be (re-) moved, be ready shake, slide, slip.

Psalm 102:25 PlusPsalm 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundationH3245 of the earth: and the

heavens are the work of thy hands. Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be

removed for ever. Psalm 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his

going down.Psa 104:5 Who laid H3245 the foundationsH4349 of the earth, that it should not

be removed H4131 for ever.1 Sam 2:8 . . . for the pillarsH4690 of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath

set the world upon them. Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundationsH3245 of the earth?

Psa 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillarsH5982 of it.

Jer 31:37 . . . If heaven above can be measured, and the foundationsH4146 of the earth searched out beneath. . .

Mic 6:2 Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD'S controversy, and ye strong foundationsH4146 of the earth:

Mooreman: We have listed 21 passages that speak of the foundations of the earth. See for example Job 38:4; Psalm 104:5; Jeremiah 31:37; Micah 6:2; Hebrews 1:8. Compare pillars I Samuel 2:8. One never thinks of a foundation in terms of an object that rotates, tilts and revolves. Again, foundations speak of the fixity of a place, not a path.

An impossible concept to reconcile with heliocentricity! How could the sun know its going down if it is not going down, and if instead the earth is turning beneath the sun?

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To speak of this as poetic language ignores the fact that the first half of the verse is clearly not poetic. Both the sun and the moon exactly observe the appointment of their Creator with respect to time. See Matthew Henry.

EVANS: An impossible concept to reconcile with Geocentricity, since the sun does not go UP or DOWN. In Geocentricity, it neither rises nor sets. Geocentrists claim that the sun goes around, so, they must succumb to some sort of poetic or perspective language for their proof texts. What exactly are these pillars and foundations, since He hangeth the earth upon nothing? Are the pillars and foundations external things or internal things? Can they be seen with the naked eye? With a satellite or a telescope?

Are these pillars and foundation material or non-material things? Do you mean gravity? If so is gravity found in other heavenly bodies? Not only does the earth have pillars but the heaven also has pillars. Does that mean that nothing in heaven moves? Is heaven fixed? Immovable? Do the foundations of the earth have a course? To be “out of course,” there must have been a course.

Job 9:6: Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillarsH5982 thereof tremble.

Job 26:11: The pillarsH5982 OF HEAVEN tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

Psa 82:5: . . . all the foundations of the foundationsH4146 earth are OUT OF COURSE.

Psalm 119:89, 90Psalm 119:89, 90: For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast ESTABLISHED H3559

THE EARTH, and it abideth. Proverbs 3:19: The LORD by wisdom hath founded H3245 the earth;

by understanding hath he ESTABLISHED H3559 THE HEAVENS. Mooreman: The fixedness of the earth is equated with the fixedness

of the Scriptures. Amad (abideth) means, "to stand," "to stand still," "to remain," (Young's Concordance). “Yasad” (founded) means, "to lay a foundation". In this verse established is kun, "to form," "prepare," "establish," (Young's Concordance).

EVANS: Your word (H3245) for “founded” is also used for the heavens and world in Ps. 24:2 and Psalm 89:11 and “established” in Psalm 78:69 (see previous comments). Well, if the word for

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“established” means FIXEDNESS without any rotation or course, then why does not the establishment of the heavens also NOT mean FIXEDNESS, without rotation and without any course of the heavens? HUH? You see doctrine by inference and innuendo sometimes backfires.

Proverbs 8:27Proverbs 8:27: When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he

set a compass upon the face of the depth. Mooreman: In their creation, the point of the compass was placed

not in the heavens but upon the watery earth. As Matthew Henry says on this verse:

He was no less active when, on the second day, he stretched out the firmament, the vast expanse, and set that as a compass upon the face of the depth, surrounded it on all sides with that canopy, that curtain. Or it may refer to the exact order and method with which God framed all the parts of the universe, as the workman marks out his work with his line and compasses. The work in nothing varied from the plan of it formed in the eternal mind.

EVANS: Matthew Henry notwithstanding, a compass, whether a noun or a verb is a revolution or revolving or surrounding, or going around in a circuit, or a course, to circle or their noun derivatives. It is not the magnetic poles of the earth or a hand held instrument to determine those points. Unfortunately following extra scriptural authorities can get you into trouble on stuff like this especially if you are Daniel Boone or a hunter looking for directions. Can the face of the deep be gone around the FACE of the deep? If so, is it around/around or around/above?

Ecclesiastes 1:4-7Ecclesiastes 1:4-7: 4 One generation passeth away, and another generation

cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. 5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. 6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north . . . and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. 7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return.

Mooreman: In contrast to the abiding earth (amad = to stand, stand still, remain), four statements are made of the motion of the wind (goeth, turneth, whirleth, returneth), two are made of rivers (run, return), and three are made of the sun's movements (ariseth, goeth down, hasteth to the place where he arose). As the wind and rivers move relative to the

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earth, this passage declares that the sun does also. Only one, not two, hermeneutical principles can be allowed in this brief comparison. Actuality is not mingled here with the language of appearance. The sixteen words of motion in this passage are all actual.

EVANS: Although, we agree with Brother Mooreman in regard to the wind and the waters, we must say again that the sun does not rise, arise, go down, come up, or set. The sun did not even literally BEAT on Jonah’s head or literally SET on a city.

These are metaphoric terms used even today that are from a man’s perspective, as man sees it, not as God sees it. The words are not always LITERAL! It does not even fit the pattern of the Geocentrist‘s scientific pattern as he sees the sun as going around the earth.

The sun does go forth from man’s perspective, and it does seem to set and go back to the place where it started from man’s perspective

Isaiah 13:10Isaiah 13:10: For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof

shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

As in Judges 5:31 and Psalm 19:5, 6, it is once again stated that the sun goes forth. And here, in its going forth it will be darkened. Two actions are therefore attributed to the sun alone, a darkening and a going forth. It is not one action of the sun, a darkening, and another of the earth, a rotation.

EVANS: Whether you call it one action or two actions, we already have an example of this darkening at the crucifixion. What happens when the sun is darkened is that the moon no longer reflects the sun’s light, the moon having no light of its own.

The sun’s going forth is from horizon to horizon per man’s perspective. Nothing else is said about the sun’s going forth on the other side of the earth from where a person is. One might stretch and strain at the sun’s going to the place where it was before.

Nevertheless, that is not the same place for each person’s perspective upon the earth. Now, we would be glad to hear as to what the place it is to which the sun goes back.

Isaiah 13:13; Isaiah 24:19, 20Isaiah 13:13: Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove

out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

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Isaiah 24:19, 20: 19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Mooreman: Only in times of judgement (mainly that of the last days) is the earth said to move. Compare Psalms 82:5; 99:1; Isaiah 24:19, 20. Notice again, the earth is removed out of her place. Again we note that earth has a place not a path, Job 9:6.

There will be violent movement of the earth during the coming Great Tribulation, and with this verse likely looking beyond to Revelation 20:11. “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.”

EVANS: All the heavenly bodies also have places. Just calling attention to something having a place does not tell us what and where that place is. Yes, one day both the earth AND the heavens will be fled away out of their places.

Now, the sun, the stars, the planets, and the earth have places and defined, stable circuits or ordinances. Tomorrow will be another story when all these things happen! Until then, everything is confined to God’s planned universe, circuits, orbits, and rotations. Of course, we leave all that to God and not to science falsely so called.

Isaiah 38:7, 8Isaiah 38:7, 8: And this shall be a sign unto thee from the LORD, that the

LORD will do this thing that he hath spoken; Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Thus it was the sun, and not only the shadow that returned, II Kings 20:11. In Joshua 10:13 the sun stood still; here the sun reverses its motion. "The sun is a faithful measurer of time, and rejoices as a strong man to run a race; but he that set that clock a going can set it back when he pleases, and make it to return; for the Father of all lights is the director of them." Matthew Henry.

EVANS: This miracle of the sun dial going backwards and forwards is not in question. The sun did return to where it was, from wherever it was IN THE SKY. The sun goes from horizon to horizon, from man’s perspective. However, the mechanics of the cosmic miracles are not

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elaborated on except by assumption and opinion. We are glad that we are not at the mercy of someone else’s opinions and assumptions on these things. Opinions are much like armpits; everyone has two of them and they both stink!

Isaiah 40:26Isaiah 40:26: Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these

things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

Mooreman: We are called to behold the majesty of Lord's creative power as he brings out the starry host in their nightly circuit across the darkened sky. It is the stars in their courses (Judges 5:20) that are moving and not the earth. Compare the sun's circuit (Psalm 19:6).

EVANS: We have no argument here. The sun has a circuit, the stars have circuits, the planets have circuits, and the earth has a circuit. So, what else is new? The earth has pillars, whatever they are. The heaven has pillars whatever they are. So, is the heaven immovable? If not why is the earth?

Isaiah 48:13Isaiah 48:13: Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my

right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Mooreman: The usual terminology of creation is that of the heavens being stretched out and the earth founded. See Jeremiah 10:12. This clearly points to geo rather than helio - centricity.

EVANS: Mooreman certainly has a wide hoop to interpret things through. It is not very normal or usual terminology for the host of heaven to stand up together. And what about the foundation that stands up together with the host of heaven? We think this language is a bit unusual. Perhaps, Brother Mooreman can explain all this. We have already covered the foundations of the earth BENEATH and the PILLARS. (Beneath the ground in the earth or beneath the globe? The South Pole?)

Isaiah 66:1Isaiah 66:1: Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the

earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Mooreman: As with Jacob's ladder (Genesis 28), there is here a stationary throne in heaven joined to a stationary earth below. One does

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not expect to see a rotating, tilting and revolving footstool. Nor would one expect such a footstool to be a place of rest. Note Acts 7:49. "Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

EVANS: Which part of the earth is the Lord’s footstool? An which part are the Lord’s feet located upon it? Must we take everything literally that geocentrists give us. If not, are some of them poetic or metaphoric? Still, if so, what are the mechanics for such differentiation?

Jeremiah 10:12Jeremiah 10:12: He hath made the earth by his power, he hath

established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Mooreman: The word establish here is kun (= form, prepare, establish), rather than the frequently used yasad (= to lay a foundation). This passage gives another contrasting example of the creation of earth with that of the heavens. Compare the stretching out of the heavens with their rolling up, Isaiah 34:4; Hebrews 1:12. The language is geocentric.

The collection of red shift and other data over the past 40 years indicates the existence of astronomical "shells" around the earth. See below on Amos 9:6.

EVANS: The collection of red shift and astronomical shells? Duh? If there is anything in all this that gets my goat, it is those that are scientifically proficient who lord their superior scientific knowledge over the uneducated laymen, attempting to cause them to oooh and awe. It is sort of like the evolutionist when he finds another bone. My faith is in the word of God and not archeology or science falsely so called or astronomy. Mooreman appeals to his selective use of the Hebrew word for “establish” which is used quite “frequently.” Actually, it is used in a wide variety of ways including to erect, to set up, and to ordain. We have already addressed this. There is no hint of geocentricity being inherent in the word as postulated.

Amos 5:7, 8Amos 5:7, 8: . . . Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and

turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:

Mooreman: As with the actions of the First and Fourth Days of Creation, and the actions described below in Amos 8:9, along with the

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actions of numerous other passages, when God turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night, it is an action from without affecting the earth, and not of the earth's rotation affecting itself.

EVANS: Instead of trying to disprove the heliocentric model, Brother Mooreman needs to clearly establish the geocentric model in the scriptures. All this is irrelevant neither proving nor disproving the issue.

Amos 9:6Amos 9:6: It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded

his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

Mooreman: As the Lord GOD of Hosts (9:5), He is in complete control of His creation whether it be the upper reaches of the heavens or the lower parts - the earth. Regarding the upper parts, recent discoveries have demonstrated the existence of galactic and other types of astronomical "shells" around the earth. This appears to lead inescapably to the conclusion that the earth is at the centre! The famous astronomer Edwin Hubble said that this dilemma was "intolerable". At the Mount Palomar observatory in the 1930s and 40s, Hubble observed consistent evidence that pointed to the "ancient conception of a central earth". (The Observational Approach to Cosmology, pp. 50-58). Astronomer W. G. Tifft found that the red shift of various galaxies were all distributed at specific spherical distances from earth. (Astrophysical Journal 287: pp. 492-502). Astrophysicist J. I. Katz declared: "the distribution of gamma-ray burst sources in space is a sphere or spherical shell with us at the center". (The Biggest Bangs, The Mystery of Gamma-Ray Bursts, pp. 90-91).

The same is true of energy sources in deep space known as quasars (quasi-stellar radio sources). Astrophysicist Y. P. Varshni found that they "are arranged in 57 spherical shells with the earth at the center". He concluded: "The earth is indeed the center of the Universe…These shells would disappear if viewed from another galaxy". (Astrophysics and Space Science, 43 :( 1), pp. 3, 8). Indeed, It is he that buildeth his stories in the heavens. Amos 9:6.

EVANS: We have no objection to stories or steps being built in heaven as increments of elevation of whatever. In other places, it is rendered “steps” and “stairs.” All the movies (some in the 30’s and 40’s and TV advertisements provide us with a stairway to heaven. However interesting, all the scientific jargon does not help us. If the earth is the

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center of the universe, so be it. If there are 57 steps to whatever, that does not help us in the issue of geocentricity versus heliocentricity. Both are theories. All this requires that the sun, stars, and universe move around the earth at enormous speeds approaching and beyond the speed of light.

Amos 8:9Amos 8:9: And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I

will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day.

Rev 8:12: . . . and the third part of the sun was smitten…and the day shone not for a third part of it.

Mooreman: This [Amos 8:9] likely refers to the same action on the sun described in Revelation 8:12. God's action is specifically stated to be applied to the sun, there is no indication of God speeding up the rotation of the earth.

EVANS: Who would have understood it if the earth were mentioned in that way before any scientific model. Still, it does not say that the sun or earth sped up. That is another doctrine of inference and innuendo.

Habakkuk 3:10, 11Habakkuk 3:10, 11: The mountains saw thee, and they trembled: the

overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high. The sun and moon stood still in their habitation . . .

Mooreman: In this further reference to Joshua's long day, the sun and moon stood still in their habitation, that is, in the heavens. The earth was not the place where the passage says motion was suspended. It was in the sphere of the heavens where the sun and the moon stood still. Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Why is this repeated statement of the laying the foundation of the earth not made of the sun, moon or stars? Why this continual contrast? The heavens are stretched out but the earth is laid as a foundation. This is a clear demonstration of geocentricity.

EVANS: Both the sun and the moon stood still. The moon goes around the earth in both models. The contention is whether the sun goes around the earth or whether the earth goes around the sun. Now if the earth stopped rotating the sun would seem to stand still, but the moon would still continue to move unless separately stopped. That would make for a dual miracle in that both the earth and the moon would then have to

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stand still. However, if the sun actually stopped, the moon would also continue to move around the supposed stationary earth unless separately stopped. In either case the moon would have to move unless stopped. We see Mooreman’s proof text as anything but a clear demonstration.

Malachi 1:11 and 4:2Malachi 1:11: for from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of

the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; Malachi 4:2: But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of

righteousness arise with healing in his wings . . .Mooreman: Appearing in proximity, both "risings" must convey the

same thought. Both are actual. As the Sun (Christ) rises in 4:2, so does also the sun in 1:11. Christ's Coming is likened and typified elsewhere by the movement of the sun.

EVANS: The issue is not about anything rising but something going around the earth. Why no comparison of the sun going down to the Son going down. This is just more stretching and straining.

Psalm 19:5; Matt 5:45; Luke 1:78. 79Psalm 19:5: Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and

rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. Matthew 4:16: The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to

them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. " Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on

high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. Luke 1:78, 79.

Matthew 5:45: That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mark 16:6: . . . they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun . . . Mooreman: He maketh his sun to rise (not merely to shine) is a

statement of action being exercised upon the sun itself. We would expect this to convey the same literal meaning as, He sendeth the rain. The Father is the subject; maketh to rise, and sendeth are the verbs; sun and rain are the objects of the verbs. The Fathers actions on both objects must be viewed in the same literal manner. The first action in this coupled statement could not be the "language of appearance", if the second is clearly and actual statement of fact. As in Malachi 1:11 and 4:2 both the Saviour and the sun rose actually. Rising and risen have the same relative meaning. Acts 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my

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footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? A house that was to be God's rest on His footstool the earth: all is incongruous if earth (unlike the throne in heaven) is in multi-directional motion.

EVANS: Actually, Jack’s does not exegete but rather eisegetes. Does Christ set as well as rise? Again, the sun does not rise or set in the geocentrists system; rather, it goes around. So much for comparisons!

Ephesians 4:8-10Ephesians 4:8-10: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he

led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Mooreman: The ascending and descending passages of the Bible are geocentric.

Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. II Kings 4:11. After their appearance to the shepherds, the angels were gone away

from them into heaven. Luke 2:15. At Christ's ascension, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the

right hand of God. Mark 16:19; And… while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried

up into heaven. Luke 24:51. At the Rapture, the Lord himself shall descend from heaven. I Thess.

4:16. Shortly before Christ's Return John saw another mighty angel come

down from heaven.” Rev. 10:1. The Two Witnesses are told to, Come up hither. And they ascended

up to heaven in a cloud. Rev.11:12. At Christ's Return, the book of Micah describes: For, behold, the

LORD cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth. Micah 1:3. To these we could add:

Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven. Gen. 19:24.

For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. Judges 13:20.

If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Psa. 139:8.

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Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? Prov. 30:4. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from

heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13. . . . that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise

up Christ to sit on his throne. Acts 2:30. Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring

Christ down from above :) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead). Rom. 10:6, 7.

And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth. Rev. 8:4, 5.

As with Jacob's Ladder (Gen. 28), the Bible declares that there is a direct rather than a circuitous link between the earth and the Throne of God in Heaven.

Hebrews 1:10: And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Once again we see this phrase. Few expressions could so completely preclude the thought of motion than the laying of a foundation.

James 1:17: Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

There is directness between God and his dealings with the earth. As this is true in the spiritual realm, it is likewise true in the physical realm that there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning between God and the earth. (See Thomas Strouse, "James and Astronomy", The Biblical Astronomer, Fall 2005).

EVANS: Amazing! Now, we know from whatever place on earth men ascend, it will not be circuitous but they will ascend directly in a thousands of straight paths into heaven. So heaven must completely surround the earth in that event. Of course when men descend into hell that will also be the case of going directly to hell; do not pass GO; do not collect two hundred dollars! Ascending and descending are not the issue, for the sun ascends and descends per man’s perspective but not from God’s. In the geocentric model, there is no ascension or dissension of the sun, for the sun is supposed to go around.

Revelation 6:13, 14; Isaiah 34:4 and Others

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Revelation 6:13, 14: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 34:4: And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Mark 13:25 “And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll and all their host shall fall down . . .

Psalm 148:3: Praise ye him, sun and moon . . . all ye stars of light. Revelation 8:12: And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part

of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Matthew 24:29: . . . the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

Mooreman: This passage is geocentric. In Genesis 1, the earth is created on the First Day, and is therefore distinct from the firmament created on the Second Day, and from the stars created and set in the firmament on the Fourth Day. This same geocentric distinctiveness is seen in the celestial judgements of the Tribulation. The stars fall upon the earth. The overhead heavenly canopy is rolled up.

Revelation 6:13 is likely to be one of the most disbelieved verses in the Bible. How could stars fall on to the earth! See below under Some Down to Earth Questions. There the surprising fact is presented that whether with the naked eye or the most powerful telescopes, stars only and always appear as points of light. Nor when viewed through a telescope do we see them enlarged as when viewing for example the planets.

This was a surprise to Galileo, and the anomaly remains. There is something wonderfully strange about the stars! It is difficult to conceive of these judgements during the Tribulation Period when: But if one will carefully consider what is actually taking place in Revelation 8:12, it is impossible to conceive of these events if the earth is spinning around the sun. In fact, if that where the case the phenomena here described would not appear to be possible.

Except in the judgements of the last days, there appears to be no passages in the Bible that indicate the earth is in motion. All movement

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is by the sun, moon and stars. In Psalm 50:1, God calls to the earth beneath a sun that is said to be in motion. This is the way it is always presented in Scripture. If it were the opposite, would we not expect at least once to have it so stated?

EVANS: While we agree that neither Mooreman nor science can clearly explain how the stars fall to earth, we say that is the very reason than we should not try to resolved Bible facts with science. Are Geocentrists willing to demand that the stars literally fall to the earth as they so literally explain other things? None of these imagined assumptions and conclusions in these verses proves anything conclusively in regard to the miraculous, supernatural phenomena of the end time let alone geocentricity or even heliocentricity. I guess we are going to wait for the answers to God’s mysteries. Of course, we have already mentioned the earth turning as the clay and its ordinance or course.

ConclusionMooreman: Beginning with Genesis One, fifty selected passages

from the Bible have been presented which show that the earth has a place rather than a path in the universe.

EVANS: Mooreman’s 50 verses may have proved that the earth has a place as do the sun, the moon, the planets, and the stars, but what and where those places are have not been sufficiently proved.

Mooreman: In addition more than one hundred other verses have been listed.

EVANS While we have only addressed the verses of this segment of Mooreman’s treatise, we suppose the other verses will not prove anything more in regard to geocentricity than these and will also only prove such things from man’s perspective.

Mooreman: The cumulative effect of this Scriptural evidence is convincing, and especially so when nothing can be gathered from the Bible for the other side.

EVANS: The cumulative effect will only convince those who have a presupposition toward the science and astronomy of Lutheran Geradius Bouw, endeavoring to make certain scriptures align with that science.

Mooreman: It is precisely for this reason that Bible believers in that previous day were loath to surrender to heliocentricity. They considered that the Scriptures themselves were being surrendered. They were right!

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And, it was a surrender that prepared the way for the next great capitulation: Darwinism!

EVANS: Without any sentiment towards Geocentricity or heliocentricity, centuries of Christians regarded the scriptures to tell it as they saw it, from man’s perspective without any scientific explanations.

Mooreman: It is the Scriptures where the quest for knowledge must be centered.

EVANS: What kind of knowledge specifically. Doctrinal knowledge? Prophetic knowledge? Scienctific knowledge, falsely so called?

Mooreman: In the subject before us, pride has caused men, including many creationists, to look elsewhere and ignore the consistent witness of the Scriptures to a central and stationary earth.

EVANS: Pride has also caused men with vast scientific and astronomical knowledge to look down their noses at layman Christians only to realize that they could snow them into believing geocentricity by adapting the Bible to align with their scientific theory.

While we have not endeavored to prove heliocentricity by science or the Bible, we have endeavored to prove that geocentricity has not been proven by the Bible. We also acknowledge that a few scriptures seem to favor heliocentricity in that the earth has an ordinance or circuit. Still, if we had our way, we would rather believe the miraculous and supernatural events to be just what they are without any appeal to the different scientific explanations. Obviously, we will not get our way and must address the current controversy. -- by Herb Evans (slightly edited for clarity and booklet esthetics.)

Jack Mooreman’s and Evans’ ResponsesThanks Herb, I will rush this off to you as I am off for a week's

meetings in northern England. I think your explanation of these passages is forced rather than natural, and you do not show a contrary statement in the Bible that says the earth is rotating or orbiting. Unlike most others you are to be given credit for taking the time to address the key passages.

Nevertheless, if words mean anything, and they do, The King James Bible is a Geocentric Book. God bless you there Jack Moorman   

Brother Mooreman, Thank you for your response. The King James Bible is not a geocentric book or a heliocentric book or a science book. It is a book written to man and for man. Where it does speak on these things, it does mean something and whatever it means is inspired and accurate either from man's perspective or from God's perspective.

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Nothing is more natural to man than to say the sun rises, sets, come up, goes down and etc. To apply those terms scientifically is to force the unnatural. For the sun to stop in the sky or to go backward is not natural but rather supernatural, a miracle by whatever the mechanics.

For you to say that sun goes around the earth does not match such natural terms and is extra-scriptural. It is you that are forcing the scientific terms upon us rather than the natural terms which are still used today.

My endeavor was not to prove a scientific model necessarily, however, it was to prove your scientific assumptions based on forced passages were in error and having problems and do not necessarily demand your scientific model.  Nevertheless, I did show that the earth, the sun, the moon, and the heavens have ordinances or circuits. I also showed that the earth would one day be out of course. I also showed that the earth turned as clay to the seal. It is now incumbent on you to show where my comments are in error. -- Herb Evans

BOUW versus EVANSSomeone sent my original article (at the end of this document) to

Geridus Bouw and asked Dr. Bouw if he had ever corresponded with Herb Evans. Here's his reply to that someone and also my point/ counterpoint response: -- Herb Evans

Bouw: No, I never corresponded with Herb Evans.  I enjoyed what he wrote for Ruckman's paper in the early years, but now he's just tedious.

Evans: no comment!Bouw: For instance, the sun waxed hot.  When astronomers say that

the moon waxes and wanes, we mean that its path around the earth causes the moon to become increasingly illuminated and, past full, its illumination decreases.  It has nothing to do with candle wax.  When the Bible says that the sun waxed hot, it means that its path up the sky caused its heat to become increasingly felt.  

Evans: Obviously, the man thinks that I am some kind of dummy that does not know that the verb "waxed" means became. The sun became hot which is looking at it from an earthly perception.

Bouw: A sunburn is caused because ultraviolet rays, which are more energetic than visible and infrared light hit the skin hard enough to damage skin cells.  Isn't that the same as beating down.  The amount of

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UV rays increases as the sun rises higher in the sky and decreases as it gets lower.  

Evans: No! It is not the same. Again, this is from an earthly perspective despite the science lesson. The sun does not beat on anything physically. Physically, the sun is always hot.

Bouw: To set the world upon the pillars of the earth: I don't think that Evans has a clue on that one.  The world is not a synonym for earth and vice-verso.  

Evans: It seems that Bouw doesn't have a clue or he would have said something to that effect. Still, those are synonyms at times.

Bouw: Hitler believed in astrology.  During WWII, the Allies used astrology against Hitler.  You might say that the stars in their courses fought against Hitler.  

Evans: Even the military channel knows that. But if you must say that, you must say that.

Bouw: The circuit of heaven is quite literal; it is a helical spiral that every star, planet, and sun traces out in the course of one year. Aberration, parallax, and the annual Doppler shift of starlight all attest to the circuital motion.  

Evans: Well, here comes the science. Of course, Bouw knows that there is contradictory science out there. Still, I prefer to talk Bible. I don't deny the heavenly circuits. It is Bouw that denies the earth's circuit and rotation.

BOUW: The sun is suspended at the center of mass of the firmament. Any attempt to move the earth will be interpreted as an attempt to move the firmament.  It is easier for one atom to move a bulldozer than for the entire universe to move the firmament.  The firmament is a one followed by 123 zeroes times the mass of the universe.  A bulldozer is only a 1 followed 31 zeroes times the mass of an atom.  To Evans is a scientific ignoramus just knowledgeable enough to be dangerous, lacking the disciplined mind of the scientist.  He knows so many truths that are not true.

Evans: There goes the pride of a stuffed shirt, who thinks that he knows it all, since he knows some science. Therefore, he thinks that he can talk down to Bible believers who do not know as much about science as he does. So, therefore, Bouw pontificates the above scientific info some which may or may not be true.

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Bouw: Every one of Evans' scientifically "metaphorical" statements I take literally.  It's only a matter of thinking deeply about them and asking the Lord to explain what is not obvious.

Evans: Who cares what Bouw TAKES literally? Men TOOK them either metaphorically or from an earthly perspective when they had not caught up to Bouw's scientific revelations.

Note: Bouw seems to have surrendered the same kind of earthly perception as Herb Evans above. Still, Herb Evans believes that the scripture throughly furnishes the man of God to all good things.

– Compiled by Herb Evans from an Email

See Original Article to which BOUW replied next:

WHAT IS YOUR FINAL AUTHORITY? (Science or that which is given by Inspiration of God?)

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: -- 1 Tim 6:20

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. -- 2 Tim 3:16

I appreciate all the long, hard work that Gerardus D. BOUW, Jack Mooreman, and others have done with the Geocentric/Heliocentric issue replete with charts, photos, quotes of dead men, history, and the science involved in this thousand year old controversy both from Heliocentric and Geocentric perspectives and refutations.

Both systems are quite technical and quite complex. Therefore neither I nor most preachers and laymen could intelligently accept or reject their facts and theories for the lack of a refuting authority or the education required to do so. I doubt if one in a thousand Christian laymen could grasp or understand the scientific complexities or intricacies involved in either system, which for the most part are untrained in astronomy or the sciences. Nevertheless, I am not prepared to knuckle under to bully tactics from elitists who are proficient in astronomy and the sciences or those who parrot them. Of course, they know the average Christian cannot refute their scientific claims (98% of

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their argument) or the scientific claims of the evolutionist, so they do not expect any resistance from them to their claims from ordinary ignorant Christians. If some do resist, it is a “Dost thou teach us?” situation. Now since I cannot accept dead men at their word and their supposed scientific absolutes or from anything but that which THROUGHLY furnishes the man of God.

The only thing that interests us is the proof texts that these curbstone astronomers and their converts use as proof for Geocentricity and a non-moving, non-revolving earth, as well as the sun and/or stars revolving around the earth. Since we are neither astronomers nor scientists, we will leave that to others, and we will deal mainly with the claims from a biblical perspective. Let us deal with some of their proof texts and ours.

Geocentricity versus HeliocentricityIsa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and

my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool . . .

There are a company of KJO believers as well as a company of non-KJO folks who believe in geocentricity, which insists that the earth is stationary, unmovable, and does not rotate or spin and that the sun revolves around the earth. Geocentrists attempt to back up their scientific claims with a multitude of Bible proof texts. For the most part, their verses are metaphorical and can be made to prove either argument. The enormity of the universe is great. Still, the enormity of God is greater (Omnipresent) in that the heavens (all three) are but a span of God’s hand. Notice God’s metaphors for His throne and footstool and that the foundation and the heavens stand up together, language that makes suspect the metaphorical language of some who take advantage of such to make an argument for geocentricity.

The Biblical MetaphorsGen 15:12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell

upon Abram . . .Exo 16:21 And they gathered it [manna] every morning . . . and

when the sun waxed hot, it melted. Judges 9:33 . . . as soon as the sun is up, thou shalt rise early, and

set upon the city . . . 34

1 Sam 2:8 . . . for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath SET the WORLD upon them.

Job 9:7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.

Psa 50:1 . . . the LORD . . . called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Psa 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

Psa 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.

Ecc 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

Jonah 4:8 . . . when the sun did arise . . . the sun BEAT upon the head of Jonah . . .

Song 1:6 . . . I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me . . .Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and

hangeth the earth upon nothing.Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the

inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Jer 15:9 . . . she hath given up the ghost; HER SUN is gone down while it was yet day . . .

Mic 3:6 . . . . and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them.

Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good . . .

Now, in regard to the metaphorical language in regard to the sun rising, setting, going up, and going down, we say in metaphorical terms the same thing in our scientifically enlightened, heliocentric age without even a hint of what the geocentrists mean by it. And surely, the SUN DOES NOT SET UPON A CITY. The sun goes down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. And it is true that a woman that gave up the ghost had HER SUN GO DOWN ON HER. We are told by geocentrists that the sun goes around and not up or down. The sun neither literally goes up or down, except by man’s observation. The sun neither literally rises nor sets except by man’s observation. Likewise, the sun also metaphorically BEAT on JONAH’S HEAD. How does the sun BECOME hot when it is already hot, or are we in for another scientific explanation? Earth is also metaphorically God’s footstool and the heaven

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His throne! Even so, the Bible does have comments that relate to science but often couches them in the language of metaphors. We can know the earth is round because of the Bible. We can know the complete water cycle. We can know that God houses the heavenly bodies in a compartment or tent or tabernacle. We can know that the earth is upheld by some kind of metaphorical pillars, possible the axis hung in space.

Do De Sun Move?John Jasper, converted Negro slave, preached a sermon called

“De Sun Do move.” Einstein claimed that it did not matter whether one says that the sun moves or the earth moves, since it is relative, so we have no problem taking John Jasper’s observation on it. The geocentric argument is that the sun stood still with the implication that it was the sun that moves rather than the earth moving on its axis. Let us examine the scriptures pertaining to the supposed moving of the sun and moon in Joshua and Isaiah:

Josh 10:12 - 14 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon . . . And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. . .

Isa 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Amos 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Hab 3:11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went . . .

Obviously, this was some kind of a miracle, but what kind of miracle is not readily apparent. The geocentrists will say that the Sun actually physically stopped and even reversed its orbit around the earth; the heliocentric will say that the earth stopped rotating.

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God can do either one, but this verse does not tell us whether the sun was moving and stopped or whether the earth was rotating and stopped. In regard to the miracle in Joshua and Isaiah, It could have happened by the earth stopping and reversing its rotation or it could have happened by the sun actually stopping and reversing.

Now, did the sun reverse itself backward and then return forward forty minutes or did the earth reverse its rotation forty minutes and then rotate forward again? Nevertheless, being a miracle, could it have happened by the whole universe stopping and reversing? Still, this is what happened per the observation of man.

1. The Sun stood still. 2. The Sun did so in the midst of heaven. 3. The moon stayed. 4. The phenomena lasted for a whole day. 5. The sun was said to “not go down” during that time. 6. The sun dial went backward and forward 10 degrees (40

minutes). Not only did the sun stand still, but the Moon did also, which

none disputes going around the earth; it also stayed. Still, the sun stood still in the midst of heaven. We cannot see anything but this phenomena happening in the middle of the sky from man’s view and perspective, since it is men that are being advantaged and disadvantaged by this occurrence. Is the midst of heaven the midst of the sky or is 93 million miles or farther the midst of heaven?

The Heavenly Circuits, Ordinances, and CoursesJudges 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their

courses fought against Sisera. Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth

not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. Psa 19:4 - 6 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and

their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going

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forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it . . .

Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are OUT OF COURSE.

Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

It seems that heaven itself has a circuit. The geocentrist insists that the fact that the sun has a circuit mean that it rotates around the earth. Now, disregarding the speed of the Sun with a 93 million mile radius, what do you think the speed of the stars in their circuits or courses might be with their farthest galaxy’s radius? Then there is the matter of God walking in the circuit of heaven. Is that right above the clouds or around the outmost reaches of space from the end of heaven? But horrors, we now find that the earth has a course and will one day be out of it. Selah! Think of that! But what about the sun’s circuit? It has one but only limited by its tabernacle. It is correct that the sun moves and has a circuit, but is the sun’s circuit around the earth, or is that circuit elsewhere in space? Geocentrists must prove it!

Does the Earth Rotate or Move?Gen 1:3 - 5 And God said, Let there be light: and there was

light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night . . .

Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

Psa 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.

Psa 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself:

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the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he

removed our transgressions from us. Psa 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should

not be removed for ever. 1 Chron 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also

SHALL be stable, that it be not moved. Job 38:12 - 14 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy

days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place . . .

Luke 17:34 - 36 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

There shall be future times when the sun will not rise and when the sun will go down at noon. But what about the time when the earth shall be removed out of its place? Does it move then even though God made it not to be removed FOR EVER? Now, during the future reign the earth SHALL be stable and not rotate or revolve anymore.

Geocentrists really dig a hole for themselves in regard to creation. Light was created before the sun and the heavenly bodies and was then divided into day and night. So, how were there evenings and mornings, days and nights, formed without a sun? Simple!

The earth rotated in the light that God created. You didn’t suspect that the light rotated around the earth did you or something more ridiculous like God rotating around the earth? Is God, who is light, being subservient to the earth instead of vice versa? The unlimited travel from east to west is noteworthy when you consider

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from north to south or south to north is limited. And then there is the matter of the earth being likened to the

potter’s clay to the potter’s seal, an excellent analogy to rotation. We see in Luke how in the end time that folks can be working in the field, grinding in the mill, and sleeping, all at the same time.

ConclusionThis all boils down interpretations of metaphorical terms as

really being metaphors or as really being actual literal events and substances. Much of what we call metaphors in scripture can be explained as such. As for the rest, which the Geocentrists are able to gainsay, we shall await the Geocentrists to explain the mechanics of how they differentiate between what really is a metaphor in scripture, regarding the sun and earth and what is really literal in these matters. Scientific jargon is not Bible but is a “Johnny Come Lately.” I be praisin’ de Lawd! Does I have a witness?

-- Compiled by Herb Evans 5/28/2012

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