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Fieldlines.com: The Otherpower discussion board » Notices » Classifieds » Lead-acid Battery Longevity/Renewal

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CraigCarmichaelNewbie

Posts: 34

Lead-acid BatteryLongevity/Renewal

« on: July 19, 2010, 05:24:57 PM »

Hi,

I found out that lead-acid batteries evidently last 3 or 4 times as long if asulfate salt is added to the sulfuric acid. It inhibits the usual corrosion andsulfation.

I also found a couple of patents where a sulfate salt is secretly hidden in theelectrode separator sheet "of golf cart and traction batteries" so no one(even in the factory!) knows it's there. It just dissolves out when the batteryis filled.

You can tell if your battery is already salted if you can find the cycle lifespecs:

100 -120 - 200... cycles: no salt has been added (most smaller batteries:deep cycle, RV, marine, and car starter batteries)600 - 753... cycles: you can bet sulfate salt has been added to give themthis longevity! (golf cart, forklift, very large batteries, very costly batteries)I doubt you'll find much in between like 300 or 400 cycles to confuse theissue: either it's salted or it isn't.

* The best sulfate salt to use is pure sodium sulfate. That's only beenrecognized for 10 or 20 years AFAIK.* In the past sodium-aluminum sulfate (alum) has been used - it works butit's not the pure deal. Its battery life extending effects have been knownsince before world war two!* A few have used magnesium sulfate ("Epsom salts"). That's the least useful

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one.

Many web pages are devoted to battery renewal with alum. Sodium sulfatehas barely started registering in the collective consciousness, which ismainly why I'm writing this.

My "claim to fame" here is that I did some experiments and determined theamount of sodium sulfate to put in, which I expressed as "a gram per cellper 2 pounds of battery weight" (12 volt battery).

Essentially for a new(ish) battery, you just add the salt so the battery willlast much longer -- like the manufacturer would have done if they actuallywanted to give you value and quality for your money.

For a "worn out" battery, you have to dump the acid and replace it withdistilled water and salt, then do some charge-discharge cycles. Then you'llget more years of use out of it.

It seems that treating a battery in "mid life" can cause problems, in myexperience.

More detailed info on my page: http://www.TurquoiseEnergy.com/Na2SO4.html

I want to spread the word. Nobody involved with lead-acid batteries wantsthem to last longer for you - not even the retailers.What a great, decades old, scam "short lived" lead acid batteries are!

Cheers,Craig

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dnix71Hero Member

Posts: 1747

Re: Lead-acid BatteryLongevity/Renewal

« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2010, 08:32:23 PM »

I've heard of guys who used epson salts to revive "dead" batteries. Theycan't be mechanically damaged, just sulfated. I assumed it was the additionof magnesium that changed things. There used to be this pink stuff sold in avery small bottle to revive sulfated batteries that worked well, but it madethe batteries "hot" and they would disssolve (plates fall apart) if you weren'tcareful. I always wondered about the color of the stuff, since there are somemercury compounds that color. I didn't want to be around it.

One of the few things I remember from basic chemistry was that metalsulfate compounds have extremely low solubilities in water. That's why alumis used to treat raw water.The sulfate binds well to any heavy metal present and settles out of solution.Cheap and easy clean water.

The other thing that might revive a dead battery, but shorten it's life wouldbe anything that makes the plates spongy again. If the plates aren't porousyou won't have much capacity. Anything that would bind to the plate andattract hydrogen would tend to reinflate the plates, but at the risk ofbreaking them.

Antimony is added to lead to harden it, but it also makes it brittle. Theamount of antimony needed to harden lead is very small. I have worked for acommercial almost my whole adult life. We still use lead type sometimes andthe stuff is recycled endlessly. If we get a batch with too much antimony itdoesn't cast right. It's easy to spot. Too little is just as bad, since pure leadis too soft and the cast type wears out too soon.

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JeffDJr. Member

Posts: 50


« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2010, 01:40:33 AM»

This has been known for a lot longer than you think and its no secret. ItsJust information that gets shoved into the background over time and comesto the surface every 20 to 30 years. Have a read of "The Storage Battery" byP. B. Warwick which was written over 100 years ago. The 1896 first editioncovers the use of sodium sulphate addition in new cells. The 1903 "newrevised and enlarged edition" goes into a little more detail on the use ofsodium sulphate ie how much to use based on electrolyte volume andconcentration and also talks about using it to remove hard sulfation. Youcan find the details on page 90 of the 1903 edition which is available for freethrough google books and other free libraries on the internet.

Mr. W.J.S. Barker-Starkey was one of the first to use and document the useof soda salts in lead acid batteries back in the late 1880's. In the January28, 1887, Electrical Review http://books.google.ca/books?id=PAwAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=barker-starkey&source=bl&ots=G10R7aBYr8&sig=FDEHaJHCdeOJWrHomlXiy_lelhc&hl=en&ei=uQlVTMu-HM-gnQe18tS4Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=barker-starkey&f=falsethere is a good discussion on the effects of sodium sulphate on some badlysulphated plates.

In 2007 when I first started looking into rebuilding old batteries and buildingmy own cells based on P.B. Warwick's instructions in "How to make and Usethe Storage battery" I started experimenting with sodium carbonate ( whichis what Barker-Starkey and Warwick used) to help clean up badly sulphatedplates. Mixing sodium carbonate (washing soda - arm & hammer) withsulphuric acid will form sodium sulphate and lots of carbon dioxide gaswhich causes the acid to foam. The sodium carbonate must be added in verysmall amounts. Note that sodium carbonate is also used to neutralizesulphuric acid so adding too much will neutralize the acid and theneventually the solution will go alkaline as more sodium carbonate is added. The cell will work in an alkaline solution but cell voltage is around 1.6v fullycharged and drops much faster when discharging and the cell only has abouta third of the capacity than when using acid. The only plus when fullyalkaline is it doesn't hard sulphate. The use of sodium carbonate as theelectrolyte is mentioned in the Electrical Review but as already mentionedthe capacity of the battery greatly suffers.

If you don't change the modified electrolyte after the plates are cleaned up,then the positive plates will have a short second life since the large additionof sodium sulphate accelerates the corrosion of the positive plates. Althoughthis is mentioned in several documents published prior to 1900, I nevercame across them until about two months after the first cell cleaned hadfailed. After being de-sulfated (took about 3 days of low current charging),the cell worked well for about 4 months and then started to rapidly losecapacity. I removed the cell plates to inspect them and discovered that thepositive plates had turned to mush (but at least they weren't hard sulphated

. Using smaller additions of sodium carbonate to form sodium sulphatereduces the rate of corrosion of the positive plates but also reduces thespeed at which the plates de-sulphate. Having a clear case aids immenselyin deciding if more sodium carbonate is needed but I have never had thatluxury.

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dnix71Hero Member


« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 07:31:21 PM»


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Posts: 1747My first post here should have said "commercial printer" most of my adultlife.

I bought sodium meta bisulfite once from Ace Hardware labelled "TSP" andwas thoroughly p-ssed off when I got home and found out what it reallywas. I wanted trisodium phosphate for my garden, not a cheap substitute toclean floors.

Oddly enough I can't find it listed anymore, but sodium sulfite is easy to getlocally because it's used to dechlorinate a swimming pool. Sodiummetabisulfite is used as a food preservative and in wine making, so it can bebought locally, too.

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