leaving church statement

8/8/2019 Leaving Church Statement

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Why We Are Leaving the Apostolic Christian Church

Traever and Andrea Guingrich

(email: [email protected], ph: 309.229.6334, http://churchleavingstatement.blogspot.com)

This is an effort to make clear our biblical reasons for leaving the Apostolic Christian Church (ACC). This

explanation will not cover everything and cannot be exhaustive in either the reasoning or the biblical

support for each individual point. Essentially, these are the clearest and gravest of the many problems that

are evident, ignored by leadership, and just plain wrong. As you would expect we are ready and willing to

engage in discussion on each topic cited. You will find us amicable among differences, steadfast in truth,

and convinced solely by Scripture alone.

We desire to emphasize this is not an attack on individual ACs. Many of our family and friends remain full

participatory members. Even those in leadership that we have had the strongest disagreements with are still

loved in our hearts despite our mistrust and disappointment in biblical adherence. We are not questioning

anyones salvation, motives, or sincerity to do right. We do however doubt the ability, knowledge, and

willingness of many in leadership. Unfortunately these characteristics have been mimicked by far too many

members, but by no means all. It is out of a desire to participate in a biblically minded church without

violation of conscience that we are removing our membership to attend elsewhere.

To sum up the essence of disagreement is simple: SOLA SCRIPTURA (Scripture alone). The way

Scripture is mishandled, passed over, and not treated as the sole rule of faith and practice is the primarydriver to the sinful symptoms found in the ACC, and thus for our departure. This is a serious charge so

examples will be given and deviation from Scripture cited. We can break it down into four main categories

to address some of the most serious violations

1. Church Government

2. Church Discipline

3. Legalism/Traditionalism

4. Doctrine

1. Church Government

This subject is sadly often scoffed at or brushed off as not important. Many say that by itself it is not

enough to leave a church. In most cases we would agree, depending on the severity, of course. But the issueisnt so much the consequences of getting it wrong, though they can be seriously detrimental, but rather the

fact that the biblical model for church office and leadership structure is clear in the New Testament and yet

not followed. To create any other church government is to look elsewhere besides the Bible. Why one

would feel free to do so when running a church is unknown to the biblically minded Christian. Why would

we do anything other than what the apostles themselves did when building the church? Is not the Scripture

sufficient to show us how to operate a church?

Two offices for church leadership were created by the apostles: elder and deacon. The purpose and role of

each is clear. Elders serve as spiritual overseers of the church. Deacons serve as physical stewards of the

church.

Elder responsibilities: Elders devote themselves to the ministry of the Word and prayer. In this ministry,

elders feed the flock on the Word, guard the flock from false teaching, and guide the flock as they grow inunderstanding of God.

Deacon responsibilities: Contrary to popular thought, deacons are notresponsible for matters of spiritual

oversight or for teaching. Rather, their biblical areas of responsibility include meeting the physical needs of

the church, managing the financial matters of the church, and generally supporting the work of the elders.

These are the two offices we see in the New Testament. These are the offices we see Paul giving

qualifications for. These are the two offices we see exercised by the apostles and early church.


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One of the most important items to note is there is a plurality of both elders and deacons in the local

church. This is for several obvious reasons like decentralizing power from a single man and dividing the

duty amongst several capable men preventing anyone from being overwhelmed or too burdened. This is for

the welfare of both the men serving as well as the church itself. This model serves to protect both

individuals in office and the body of believers. Single elder headship in a local church does incredible

damage to both. Also, it is beneficial for the spiritual leaders to be able to work as a group when handling

difficult texts and issues. This is where we begin to see the deviation from the biblical model in the ACC.

The two offices are there, but they do not line up in either responsibility or quantity. In the ACC you will

find a single elder shepherding a local church. The office of deacon is somewhere between minister and

elder in terms of duty and responsibility. The trustees are close to fulfilling the role of deacon yet

everything is mixed up. The elders have full time jobs on top of the duty that comes with their role in the

church, often serving on various committees on both a national and local level as well. Something is going

to suffer when ones time is demanded in so many roles. It will either be their job, their family, or the

church. Even if they were granted the needed gifts via the Holy Spirit, they would be rendered incapable of

properly fulfilling the role because the ACC has one man doing the job of 3-5. Similarly, it is easy to see

the danger in having one man in the position of head with no one in the local body equal in authority.

Nowhere in Scripture do we see a call for a head elder or for one man, other than an apostle, to lead a single

congregation. Interestingly, the post-apostolic church didnt take too long to fall away from the practice of

a plurality of elders. By the third century single bishops/elders were ruling some local churches.

Eventually, the bishops from the most important cities began having more sway than small town bishops.

This gradually led to the single bishop from a single church from the most prominent city, Rome, becomingthe head of every other bishop. This bishop of Rome is also referred to as the pope. This illustrates the

danger of deviating from the biblical model. Clearly the ACC is nowhere close to that scenario playing out,

but cases can be cited where an individual elders preferences or traditions are all too obvious in the

churchs practice. But only one thing really matters here - it is a deviation from the biblical model.

Lets look at the biblical data

Elder is taken from the Greek word presbyteros. It is used interchangeably with episkopos where we

get the title of bishop and overseer. The offices of elder/overseer/bishop are all one in the same. We begin

by seeing that the individual Jerusalem church had a plurality of elders. This is seen in Acts 14:23, 15:2,

15:4, 15:6, 15:23, 16:4, and 21:18. There is no doubt to this fact. However, some may write this off because

it was the first church and the center of Christianity after the death of Christ. Also, the majority of the

apostles remained stationed there early on before the onset of heavy persecution. So lets look at moreevidence. We see Paul meeting with a group of men from the church of Ephesus. These men are called the

elders and overseers. Again we see a plurality in both Acts 20:17 and 20:28.

Acts 20:17Now from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church to come to him.

We also read of Paul telling Titus to set up elders (plural) in every city in Crete in Titus 1:5.

Titus 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in

every city as I directed you.

James 5:14 also speaks of a plurality of elders along with Paul in Phil 1:1 when he addresses the letter to

the local church in Philippi to the elders and deacons.

Phil 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in

Philippi, including the overseers and deacons.

So we see there are 12 examples of a plurality of elders taken from the Bible. How many examples in the

NT can we find of a single elder or head elder? Zero. So why would we be comfortable with the ACC

doing that exact thing? We already know there are a group of men that fulfill the role of deacon because we

see seven individuals appointed to the office after it was created in Acts 6. It is important to note that the

tables written about in Acts 6:16 are literally called deaconing tables in Greek.


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So the question that needs to be raised is why would we run our church government any different than the

apostles? Why is the biblical model not being followed? The consequences can be debated, but they are

always negative when we deviate from Scripture. In the case of the ACC, it has crippled correction and

hampered any move toward more biblical church discipline, practice, and doctrine. What we see happening

is what youd expect- an elder body in disarray unable to come to an agreement on anything of any

significance. Intense continued focus on traditions has led to polarity in leadership and thusly to members.

An agreement on even some of the more basic doctrines and Christian truths cannot even be reached. When

confronted on the topic and biblical evidence of church government the leadership has tended toward

attacking the clarity of Scripture by trying to muddy the waters and acting as if it is not clear. This is a

dangerous tactic that is often seen in postmodern and emergent churches. The clarity of Scripture goes

hand-in-hand with its sufficiency so we often see groups that all deny scriptural sufficiency like Roman

Catholics, Mormons, and Jehovahs Witnesses likewise attacking the clarity we see in the Word. The elders

of the early church were under the authority of the apostles while they remained alive. Now, elders are to

be under the authority of the Word. There is no problem with interchange between churches, nor is the

model so rigid that no other committees or men can be involved. However, the baseline for the overall

authority for the church is a group of men serving as elders and a group of men serving as deacons. A

super-structure that rules above a local congregation and actually prevents local leadership from

implementing change/improvement is nowhere justified in the Bible. Obviously, this biblical model can be

abused, but that is never an excuse to look anywhere other than Scripture for governing a church.

For further depth on church government/leadership structure: http://marks.9marks.org/Mark9

2. Church Discipline

The church discipline in the ACC can best be described two ways: backwards and sinful. It has effectively

turned the biblical call for discipline into punishment for repentant members. The entire purpose of church

discipline has been rendered moot. The purpose is simple- to bring the sinner to repentance. Paul says he

wants them to be shamed in order to bring about restoration. If a Christian comes in repentance for a sin

there is no need to exercise the discipline process. There is no biblical justification for selecting a few

specific sexual sins as worthy of excommunication, as we see happening in the ACC. Church discipline is

also not to be used for a single sinful act, but rather for a continuous unrepentant lifestyle of sin. The

unrepentant heart is the key. Paul wants the brother to be shamed for their sin, as they should be. The steps

prior to excommunication within the church discipline process are all in place in order to prevent that

ultimate step if possible. A member in sin is to be confronted on an individual basis. If they stop sinningand repent then there is no need for discipline. If they will not repent you move on to confronting with a

group of men. Again, if the sinner repents and ceases his sinful practice, the process ends. Only if the sinner

refuses to repent would the discipline be elevated to the elder/church level. If upon the confrontation of the

church leadership/body the violator still will not repent, only then would the ultimate step of

excommunication take place. Yet this is only done with the expressed intent to bring them to repentance.

Once repentance occurs the sinner is restored.


Matt 18:15-17If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won

your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or

three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he

refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Simple and clear- if he listens it is done, you have won your brother. If he wont listen, take others with

you, and if he yet will not listen, only then is it necessary to go to the church. If in the face of the churchs

confrontation he will not repent only then is he excommunicated. If anywhere along the way the brother

repents then the process ends.

1 Cor 5:1-13It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as

does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. You havebecome arrogant and

have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. For


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I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed

this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in

spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of

his flesh,so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your boasting is not good. Do you

not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be

a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover has been sacrificed. Therefore let

us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the

unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did

not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, orwith the covetous and swindlers, or with

idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with

any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard,

or a swindler - not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not

judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man

from among yourselves.

Again, we see total clarity. The sin was being boasted about and continued in rather than repented for. The

purpose is seen when Paul says that it is so his spirit might be saved. Also, we see a litany of sin that he

considers worthy of separating over covering far more than fornication, adultery, or murder. The intent is

clear- separate from men for non-repentant sin to bring them to repentance so that they might be saved.

2 Thess 3:6-15In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from everybrother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us If anyone does not

obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may

feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, butwarn him as a brother.

Avoid sinful brothers for the purpose of shaming them.

1 Tim 1:20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satanto be taught

not to blaspheme.

Reason for their excommunication: to be taught.

If you are familiar with the ACC practice of church discipline you will immediately see the gross violation

of Scripture. In the ACC members can come in repentance for a single sinful act and still find themselvesexcommunicated with other members told not even to eat with them. This is nothing short of shameful and

sinful. There is even occasional use of Num 32:11 as an excuse to not restore someone over the age of 20.

Again, this is a sinful utilization of Scripture and an example of horrible misapplication. Weve been told

that there is an element of keeping the church pure through discipline, but that can only be applied in the

case of non-repentance. Anyone that is repentant has their sin covered and paid for by Christs blood and

remains 100% justified by faith. Their sin does not un-justify them in the eyes of God. They have Christs

imputed righteousness and are equally pure with even the most pious of members. No one is justified by

their works, good deeds, or their avoidance of falling into sin. It is by faith alone. A church is never to

single out one sinner or particular sins as worthy of excommunication in spite of the fact that they are sorry.

It cannot be emphasized enough that this is a sinful practice.

Again, when confronted with the biblical evidence we have found the same response of attacking the clarity

of Scripture. There is an effort to muddy the waters as if it is not perfectly clear on the steps, process, orpurpose of church discipline. So as is always the case when the infallible source is mistrusted or not the

sole rule, we see men implementing a non-biblical practice. Its almost as if there is resentment that

someone got away with sin and must therefore pay for it somehow. It is not the churchs job to levy

consequences for sin; sin has its own results. Church discipline can encompass warning, correction, rebuke,

excommunication, mentoring, and teaching, but ultimately it is solely to bring a sinner to repentance for the

purpose of restoration. Nothing more, nothing less.

For further depth on church discipline: http://marks.9marks.org/Mark8


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3. Legalism/Traditionalism

Under this heading we find the distinguishing trademark of the ACC. We see here that the ACC has found

a unity in its tradition and heritage rather than in Christ alone. Longtime members need not hear a long

discussion for what they have experienced their entire lives in varying degrees. The strong unbiblical

emphasis on traditions has several roots as well as negative consequences. It comes from a lack of depth in

teaching and doctrine of course, and dangerously leads people towards a faith plus works mentality for

justification. It also stems from an abuse of church authority. This has a history of occurrence in the ACC

going back to the 19th

century and continuing until the present. Upon their invention or rise in use, the ACC

was markedly against cars, telephones, TVs, internet, life insurance, lightning rods and several other

technological advances. Now, any Christian knows the dangers and temptations that can come along with

some of those examples along with other conveniences in modern society, but never should a church preach

anything other than against the sinful use of such tools. A hammer can be used to build a house or kill

someone, but owning a hammer itself is not wrong. The same principal goes for the internet or TV.

We also see tradition keeping the church promoting the use of a single old Anglican translation of the Bible

in the KJV. This is in spite of the fact of its well-known errors. Far more manuscripts have been discovered

and scholarship has led to even greater translation capabilities. Also, old-English is not a language written,

read, or spoken in the lives of the members. They have stubbornly held to an exclusive use of a less

accurate translation that is harder to understand for the sake of tradition. Understanding the Word should be

priority number one when reading the Bible, not its beauty. Accuracy should also be one of the primarydetermining factors, yet there are prominent errors in translation as well as the fact that the actual meanings

of words has changed since 1611 when the KJV was first published. There are many historical,

grammatical, and textual errors pressed into service in order to maintain the exclusive use of KJV as well.

We would only suggest that each research the facts for themselves. We recommend the surprisingly

readable book The King James Only Controversy by James White. We have a copy available to borrow

or it can be found here: http://www.aomin.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=44

The church has no authority to rule in such specifics in peoples lives. The same goes for the silly and

pointless appearance guidelines such as no facial hair. A church has as much authority to tell a member

what color to paint their living room as they do telling them not to have a beard. They likewise have no

biblical grounds to prevent members from taking communion with non-AC believers. To threaten

discipline over such an unbiblical stance is almost obscene! This is a severe abuse of power. The churchs

authority is derived solely from Scripture, so when they are not standing on Scripture to rule they thuslyhave no authority. The Roman Catholic Church has taken such abuses of power to the extreme. They

similarly do not have the authority to rule that members should not eat meat on Fridays, that priests should

not marry, or to extend many of the other absurdly unbiblical rules. It is not a churchs job to come up with

checklists on specific items in order to judge someones piety or devotion to God. The Bible teaches

modest attire and that our adornment is not to come from our outward appearance. This means they are to

preach the principle of modesty, not rule that women have to wear skirts and wear their hair up. Much more

could be said on this topic but it is almost too silly and clearly unbiblical to even spend too much time on.

But before moving on, the abuse of Scripture in the realm of traditions needs to be illustrated.


It must be noted that most passages addressing tradition are either neutral or negative. We see more

warnings against tradition than we do promotion of it. This is not a contradiction of course, as you will seewhen we read the apostles calling the church to adhere to the tradition that they taught in 2 Thes 2:15, 3:6

and 1 Cor 11:2. The important point here is that the tradition Paul is referring back to is the Christian

lifestyle and attitude of love and abstaining from sinful acts that he teaches about in all his epistles. There is

a tendency within tradition minded churches to use those verses as a black box to simply input whatever

traditions that particular church practices, or that they see fit, as if Paul came up with some list of specifics

that he taught. I have heard the exact interpretation of these verses given to me by AC elders as I have from

Roman Catholics. Both twist the meaning in the same manner; they merely use the verses to support

different traditions. This is not Paul giving a free-for-all so that churches can come up with whatever theyd

like as a tradition and find biblical support for it. This does not mean it is wrong to have a tradition of any


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kind nor is it wrong to be traditional, but there is a big difference between that and the elevated status

given to tradition in the ACC. Lets also look at the warnings about this well-known human propensity to

both create and uphold their own traditions.

Matt 15:1-6 Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, "Why do Your

disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread." And He

answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of

your tradition? "For God said, 'honor your father and mother,' and, 'he who speaks evil of father or mother

is to be put to death' "But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help

you has been given to God," he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the

word of God for the sake of your tradition.

We can see the warnings from Christ himself of human tradition invalidating the word of God. This is

especially applicable in the church discipline issue cited earlier.

Isa 29:13 Then the Lord said, "Because this people draw near with their words and honor Me with their lip

service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned

by rote

This verse speaks for itself. It is a sad fact that it pertains to too many AC churches. It is a nominal

Christianity with a veneer of piety created by strict adherence to traditions of appearance or practice.It isnot devotion to God.

1 Peter 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile

way of life inherited from your forefathers

This needs to be thoroughly reiterated to the segment of ACs that have flat-out denied the historical

evangelical gospel of salvation by faith alone; along with every verse teaching salvation by faith apart from

works. It is a sad instance when a church is aware of a gospel denying heresy and does not take strong

immediate steps to correct it.

Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive throughphilosophy and empty deception,according to the

tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

Col 2:20-23If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world,why, as if you were

living in the world, do you submit yourselfto decrees, such as, "Do not handle, do not taste, do not

touch!" (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and

teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure,the appearance of wisdom in self-made

religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body,but are of no value against fleshly

indulgence.

These may be the two most condemning passages against the traditions we see so strictly promoted in the

ACC. They are traditions of men, plain and simple. They are not taught in Scripture and they surely have a

mere appearance of wisdom in self-made religion with no distinguishable benefits being produced (unless

you count a false unity or a unity not found in Christ). Paul actually tells the Colossian Christians not to

submitto these traditions. It doesnt matter who is trying to implement them. A Roman Catholic cannot use

the excuse that its a tradition of my church and neither can we.

Again, we have seen Scripture not being used as the sole rule of faith and practice. When we see deviation

from Scripture on simple things like church government, church discipline, and traditionalism then we will

surely find a deviation on in-depth matters like doctrine and teaching. Unfortunately that is exactly what we

see happening in the ACC as we will take a look at next.

4. Doctrine

A good way to sum up the spirit of this section is to state we are not looking for a way around the tough


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texts and tough words of the Bible; we are looking to submit to them. We must also state that these

doctrinal differences did not lead to the disagreements mentioned previously. Those had already been

points of divergence prior to any development of doctrinal dispute

This is a difficult subject to broach for many reasons. Not only is it the most important aspect of a church,

but it is also one of the least defined and least articulated realms in the ACC. It also takes the greatest

amount of defense and biblical citation; so it will justifiably be the longest section of our reasoning. There

is no way to address every relevant Scripture or properly exegete every verse commonly misinterpreted.

We urge anyone that disagrees and realizes the relevance of these doctrines to engage us in discussion. Do

not flee from what the Bible says. Words have meanings and the apostles wrote what they did by

inspiration for a reason. We are told in 2 Tim 3:16-17 that

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable forteaching, forreproof, forcorrection, and for

training in righteousness, that the man of God may becompetent, equippedfor every good work.

All Scripture is to be used. We cannot overlook the passages that make us feel uncomfortable. So-called

Christian homosexual groups do this with texts like Romans 1. Universalists do it with passages about hell

or Gods wrath because they think a loving God would never send someone to hell. And the sad fact is that

most 21st

century American Christians intentionally ignore the texts that teach of Gods sovereignty in

salvation, Gods choosing of the elect, and Gods predestination of events as well as personal salvation.

More often than not the mere mention of those biblical words immediately brings false understandings tomind. Rarely is the Bible sought out to explain what those passages mean or why they were written. But it

is a fact that they are written. The words are used. As Christians we cannot get around that. We must

evaluate what it says and find out why. The side of truth never flees from either discussion or examination

of Scripture. Remember that point when topics like predestination come up. Who do we always see running

from the examination of the text? Is that a characteristic we would see in Paul? What is there to be afraid

of? Are we not told by Peter to know what we believe and why?

This is usually where we see an appeal to mystery and an inability to understand all of who God is and how

He works. We are not disagreeing with the fact that there is a massive amount of information pertaining to

those categories that is and always will remain unknown to us as humans. However, that is a straw man

argument because what is at issue here is Gods revelation to man- the Bible. It is about what He has told

us and what we are accountable to know and understand. Scripture is not written to be misunderstood but

rather to teach, reprove, correct us so that we may be competent and equipped (2 Tim 3:16). Again, it is allof Scripture that is for this purpose. We will never be vindicated in ignoring the portions we dislike or not

studying something hard to understand. No one is claiming we are to fully understand God and His ways,

but Jesus held the leaders and people accountable for the written Word of God whenever he said it is

written, have you not read, and what saith the Scriptures. These same questions need to be asked of

these difficult topics.

This is easily the area where the clarity of Scripture is attacked the most, and not just by leadership in the

ACC. There is a drive to pretend that there is some sort of neutral position on these issues. This is

completely impossible. Two mutual exclusive ideas are present and there is no middle ground whatsoever.

Anyone that conveys that idea is either ignorant or dishonest (typically ignorant more than dishonest).

There is also an effort made by leadership in the ACC to act like non-definition in doctrine is somehow

humble. This again is a tactic of the postmodern/emergent movement. It is a false humility used as a cop-

out to avoid being confronted with tough biblical evidence to a contrary position. Often we have heardappeals made to the fact that debate has occurred for hundreds of years over the subjects being addressed

and must therefore be unknowable. This is another straw man erected to avoid Scripture. The same

argument could be made about the deity of Christ and the Trinity, but neither of those debates are

unprofitable or unfruitful to defend. They have likewise gone on for hundreds of years, but that doesnt

prove anything. Scripture is no less clear today than it was then on any of these subjects. The fact that men

have denied the truth of the Word for so long doesnt show anything other than the reality that sinful men

are involved. We do not chose what doctrine to believe based on what we think the fruit may be; we believe

what the Bible says and let God bring about whatever fruit He sees fit.


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It is part of who God is and is therefore worthy of discussion. The fact that that is in the Bible is enough to

qualify it.It must not be avoided in order to stay comfortable! We are called in Scripture to leave behind

spiritual milk and crave the meat of the Word. We are called to be transformed by the renewing of our

mind. We are called to love God with all of our heart, soul, MIND, and strength. We are called to worship

God in TRUTH. So it is with this great leading from the Holy Spirit that we embark on doctrinal analysis.

At the heart of our disagreement is the doctrine of original sin, the ability of man, the free will of man, the

sovereignty of God, election, predestination, atonement, substitution, propitiation, grace and mercy, wrath

and reprobation, the justice of God, and the preservation of the saints.


The Inability of Man

The fact is that since the fall man is not born as he was created. He is unable and unwilling, prior to

regeneration by the Holy Spirit, to have faith or submit and please God. This is just and fair because all

men are condemned in Adams free choice to sin. We are now born with a sinful human nature and are only

free to act in accordance with that nature. We are physically alive but spiritually dead and alive unto sin.

We cannot have faith for the same reason we cannot fly- it is outside of our nature. In order for that to

change God must give us a nature capable of faith. This giving of a new nature is called regeneration, being

born again, being quickened from the dead, etc. As a result of the fall we are born spiritually dead, enslaved

to sin, at enmity with God, spiritually blind and deaf, and unable to turn to God for salvation. Scripture is

clear and justly harsh on this fact.

Romans 8:7-8 because the mind set on the flesh ishostile toward God; for itdoes not subject itself to the

law of God, for it isnot even able to do so, andthose who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to

him, andhe is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4our gospel is veiled... to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world

hasblinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of

Christ, who is the image of God.

Matthew 11:27 "no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and

anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

John 3:27John answered, "A personcannot receive even one thing unless it isgiven him from heaven."

John 1:12-13But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become

children of God, who were born,not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of

God.

John 6:44,65 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up

on the last day." And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him

by the Father.

Romans 9:16 So then it dependsnot on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy .

Colossians 2:13And you, who weredead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God

made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses

Ephesians 2:1-2, 4-5Andyou were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked... But God,

being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our

trespasses, made us alive together with Christby grace you have been saved

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good

who are accustomed to do evil.


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Matthew 7:18 "A healthy treecannot bear bad fruit,nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit."

Romans 5:12,19 sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to

all men because all sinned...by the one mans disobedience the many were made sinners

Romans 3:10-12None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands;no one seeks for God. All have

turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.

Ephesians 4:17-18you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, inthe futility of their minds. They are

darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them,

due to their hardness of heart.

Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and thatevery intention of

the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

John 8:34Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin isa slave to sin."

Titus 3:3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray,slaves to various passions and

pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.

Galatians 4:8-9 Formerly, when you did not know God,you were enslaved to those that by nature are not

gods.But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back

again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world,whose slavesyou want to be once

more?

Romans 6:6,16,17,19,20 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin

might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. Do you not know that if you

present yourselves to anyone as obedientslaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey...? But thanks

be to God, thatyou who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of

teaching to which you were committed... For just as you once presented your membersas slaves to

impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to

righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you wereslaves of sin, you were free in regard to

righteousness.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 God may perhapsgrant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they

may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, afterbeing captured by him to do his will.

Ephesians 2:3 we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out thedesires of the body and the

mind, and wereby nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind

Proverbs 21:10 The soul of the wickeddesires evil

Genesis 8:21 the Lord said in his heart, I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the

intention of mans heart is evil from his youth."

Isaiah 64:7 There is no one who calls upon your name, who rouses himself to take hold of you; for youhave hidden your face from us, and have made us melt in the hand of our iniquities.

Deuteronomy 29:2-4And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: "You have seen all that the Lord

did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, the great

trials that your eyes saw, the signs, and those great wonders.But to this day the Lord has not given you a

heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear."

An even more thorough list of Scripture can be found here: http://www.traviscarden.com/articles/total-

depravity-verse-list


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Here we have just a portion of the verses that speak of mans condition prior to regeneration. Its an ugly

portrait. We see that there is a sense in which mans will is free- free to sin and act according to his sinful

nature that is incapable of turning to God. But we also see that in a more important sense his will is not free

at all- enslaved to sin, unable to submit to God or please Him, spiritually dead, spiritually blind and unable

to understand the gospel. We are born this way. It must be reiterated that this is not unjust. It is a result of

Adams sin and the fall of man.All men sinned in Adam. We must also recognize that faith and repentance

are gifts granted through grace. They are not separate from grace but rather an extension of it. Faith is not

something we do that results in being born again. Rather, faith is a result of being born again. Before

regeneration, no one can have faith. Either it is a product of our sinful human nature or it is a gift created in

us by the Holy Spirit after regeneration. Scripture is clear

Ephesians 2:8-9 For bygrace you have been saved through faith; and thatnot of yourselves, it is the gift

of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Phil 1:29 For to you ithas been grantedfor Christ's sake, not onlyto believe in Him, but also to suffer for

His sake

2 Tim 2:25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhapsGod may grant them

repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth

2 Pet 1:3 seeing that His divine power hasgranted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness

Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has

granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

Romans 4:16For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the

promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those

who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

If faith comes before regeneration it can only be said that it comes from the flesh since we remain in the

flesh before we are born again. But Jesus tells us that the flesh profits nothing (John 6:63). The Spirit must

give life. Regeneration MUST precede faith. Those that disagree teach that the flesh not only profits

something, but it profits everything!

Free Will

Many claim this means free will is not possible. To put it bluntly, thats exactly right. But to be more

specific and more accurate, that means that the idea of mans autonomous free will is not possible. That

concept is never once taught in Scripture. Men have free will to sin, and they are not in any way coerced

into sinning. They are doing exactly what they want, which is to sin and never to submit to God. That is

mans free will choice. He freely chooses to say no to God and yes to sin. As we have seen, repentance and

faith are not a part of mans nature that is sinful and fallen. Therefore, man does not have the free will to

submit or please God by believing and turning in repentance. Regeneration must occur to free us from our

sinful nature and give us a new nature that is capable of such actions. Only God can truly have free will

when it comes to mans salvation. Our free will choice was made in Adam. He had free will and made the

choice for every man. He was born with both the ability to sin and the ability to not sin. After the fall

he was cursed to be in a state of unable to not sin. This is the spiritually dead state that all men are nowborn into- unable to not sin. Adams sin was imputed to us (Rom 5, 1 Cor 15:21-22). Once Adam was

regenerated, his ability to not sin was restored. So we see him restored to a state of able to not sin and

able to sin. In heaven, we will have our ability to sin removed and will live blissfully forever in a state

of not able to sin.

We must let the Bible and not the world define freedom. Do you think we lose freedom in heaven because

we wont be able to sin? Is the option of sinning truly what we could call freedom? Is not sin actually

bondage? Is God less free than man because he is not able to sin? Jesus told the Jews that they will know

the truth and the truth will set them free. Those who hold to mans free will believe they were always free


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to choose; they have no need to be set free. That happens to be the same response the Jews gave to Jesus

John 8:32-36 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." They answered Him, "We are

Abraham's descendants andhave never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it thatYou say, 'You will

become free'?" Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of

sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes

you free, you will be free indeed.

Jesus clearly has no belief in the free will of man in regards to righteousness. Let us not ignorantly claim

our own supposed freedom as the Jews did. God and man cannot both be free in terms of mans

salvation. God is sovereign over all things at all times. This is not an extreme view; it is just a true

biblical view. God is always sovereign in everything. Never in Scripture are we given the idea that He has

voluntarily forfeited His sovereignty in any realm. Even when He gives Satan a leash, as in the case of Job,

He is still in control. God is by definition sovereign.

If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of

grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright. - Martin Luther

This topic is vast and much more should be said about it to ensure proper understanding. For that see here:

http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Free-Will/

Predestination/Election

So seeing that no man is able or willing and that faith is a gift, we recognize that God saves whom He

pleases when He pleases. Remember, God owes grace to no man. He has mercy and compassion on

whomever He wills (Exodus 33, Romans 9). If He gave justice to all men then all men would get hell as

they deserve. But since God is also merciful, He predestines some to receive mercy and faith and so be

saved. If He were not to predestine then all men would simply act in accordance with their sinful natures

and reject God leaving heaven empty of any man. Only through predestination will any man be

regenerated, have faith, or be saved.

Acts 4:27-28 "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom

You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do

whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

We see that all that happened to Christ was predestined to occur. Herod, Pilate, and the Gentiles and Jews

did what God predetermined to happen. He used their evil for His own glory and purpose. If the greatest

evil act of all time, the murder of Christ, was predestined by God Himself then we can be assured that any

and all evil is capable of being used by God for His own purposes. We are told that we are chosen before

time andpredestinedto salvation. We cannot skip over or avoid these passages and words in Scripture.

Eph 1:4-5, 11just asHe chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and

blameless before Him.In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself,

according to the kind intention of His willalso we have obtained an inheritance, having been

predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will

Romans 8:29-30 For those whom He foreknew,He also predestinedto become conformed to the image of

His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;and these whom He predestined, Healso called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

It is very simple- Paul says we are predestined so we believe we are predestined. It doesnt matter if it

violates what I used to think about so-called free will. The Bible says it so we as Christians are called to

submit and believe it.

The Meaning of Foreknew

Some want to take the passage in Romans 8 (cited above) and claim that foreknew simply means God

looked forward in time to see who would freely choose Him and then upon that basis predestined them. It is


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necessary to explain why that interpretation is impossible. First off, God says He foreknew us. It is

speaking of people, not their actions or anything they do. God is the subject, foreknew is the verb, and we

are the direct object of the verb. You may recall from the Old Testament that to know in Hebrew is the

deepest and most intimate form of love. It is usually reserved for husbands and wives. When Adam knew

Eve she conceived. The same term is used when other wives conceived as well. It is a Hebrew concept of

strong love. So when we are told we are foreknown and predestined it essentially means we were fore-

loved. It is not merely a statement of Gods knowledge. Of course, He knows our future actions- He knows

everything. That is not what Paul is saying here and it would be out of context. Also, if that were true what

would it mean when Jesus says to false Christians in Matt 7:23 I never knew you? Is he literally saying

that He is not all knowing and had no knowledge of them? Is He somehow denying His own omniscience?

Certainly not. He is telling them He does not have the deep, intimate, and ultimately salvific (salvation

related) love that He has for His sheep. Also, we see in 1 Peter 1:20 that Christ is foreknown. Obviously,

this does not mean He merely had knowledge of Christ. God foreknowing people is not a statement of

mental knowledge; it is a statement of incredible love! Secondly, to take that incorrect interpretation of

foreknew would make Rom 8:29-30 a universalist text (teaching universal salvation). With that meaning

we would be forced to say He foreknew everyone that ever existed since obviously God is all knowing.

That would also mean everyone that ever existed is also predestined, called, justified, and glorified. The

statement is clear from beginning to end that the ones that get glorified are the same ones that were

foreknown. There is no room in the text to lose anyone within any of the steps of salvation. Third, those

who believe you can lose your salvation would not be able to make any sense of this passage with that

meaning of foreknew. If that definition were true that would also mean that God knew beforehand that theywould fall away and would therefore never predestine, call, justify, or glorify them. So if they were never

justified, they were never saved anyway. That means they never actually had salvation and therefore never

lost it. So we can clearly see that there is only one meaning of foreknew that makes any kind of sense in

this text, and that is that he fore-loved us, before He even created anyone. It is a tough truth for sinful men

to accept, but nevertheless it is the truth.

This love of God before time that is spoken of in regard to those He predestined is different than the

general love God has for His creation. We love both our own spouses as well as our friends spouses, yet in

a very different way. In the same manner, God loves both His creation as well as His sheep in a very

different way. He has the same capacity to love in different ways as we do. We are not saying He does not

love everyone, but we are saying that the love He has for His people that are His possession is as great a

love as can be. This is the love that is being spoken of when God tells us He knew us. The prefix fore

means it was before time began. And the end result of our glorification shows that it is a love untosalvation. This is why we called it a salvific love. When God knows you, you will be saved.

Chosen By God

We also read of Scripture telling us that we are chosen by God, not because of what we do or any good

within us, but simply by the good pleasure of His own will. Some call this arbitrary, but to say that is to

judge the unknown mind of God. He is never arbitrary. It is in accordance withHis will and not our own.

We start first by seeing that God says He will show mercy on whomever He wants

Ex 33:19I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show

compassion."

Notice that this is told to Moses in Exodus right after he asks to see His glory. Gods free choice in

showing or not showing mercy is an integral part of His character. It is who He is. This is stated again inRomans 9:15 directly after Paul taught about election

Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL

HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

And we further read Scripture telling us we are chosen or referring to believers as elect

Matt 22:14 "For many are called, butfew are chosen."


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Mark 13:20 "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of

the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days

John 13:18 "I do not speak of all of you. I knowthe ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be

fulfilled

John 15:16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit,

and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the Word of the Lord;and as

many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

They believed because they were appointed to eternal life. Had they not been appointed they would not

have believed.

2 Thes 2:13-14But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because

God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the

truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus

Christ.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith ofthose chosen of Godand the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness

Rev 13:8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from

the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain

James 2:5Listen, my beloved brethren: did notGod choose the poor of this worldto be rich in faith and

heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

He chose us to have faith, not because we have faith.He chose us to be heirs, not because we decided to

become heirs.

We are not in a scenario where there are people drowning in the sea and God simply selects a few to save

that are willing to grasp onto His lifesaver. What we see in Scripture is a scenario where we are dead,already drowned, and lifeless on the ocean floor. God selects a group from that rotting pile of evil men to

resurrect unto life. He breathes life into them and gives them a new heart to serve and desire Him. In this

free choice of God He displays the glory of His mercy.

The Undeniable Testimony and Defense of Romans 9

In reality, Romans 9 so clearly teaches the doctrine of election that little else is needed to prove it. Paul

easily anticipates the objections he knows men will raise in response to such a teaching. Yet these are still

the very objections raised against the doctrine of election today. This passage deserves an in-depth

examination

Romans 9:6-24But it is not as though the Word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are

descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: THROUGH

ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." That is, it is not the children of the flesh who arechildren of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. For this is the word of

promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON." And not only this, but there

was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; for though the twins were

not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would

stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE

THE YOUNGER." Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, "I

WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I

HAVE COMPASSION." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God


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who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO

DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED

THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens

whom He desires.

You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are

you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make

me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one

vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His

wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for

destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He

prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from

among Gentiles.

Paul has just finished the powerful verses often referred to as the golden chain of redemption in Rom

8:29-30, which we have already discussed. He taught that everyone that was foreknown gets faith and is

saved and is also never separated from this love of God. Now He knows that people are going to say that

the word has failed because Israel is the foreknown people (loved and chosen of God) and yet not all Jews

believe. This is where he decides it is necessary to teach election. Paul starts by stating that true Israel is

spiritual Israel. They are the children of the promise and not of genealogy. He illustrates this using Jacob

and Esau and making the very significant point that Gods choice was made prior to their very birth so that

it was known that it was not based on what they did or would do. It could not be said any stronger thanPauls words: the twins werenot yet born and had not done anything good or bad,so that God's purpose

according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls. This point tears

the heart out of the argument that predestination/election is based on the knowledge of our future faith. In

actuality, our future faith depends on Gods choice to give it to us. God decided before they were born to

give mercy to Jacob and justice to Esau. Neither one deserved mercy. Both deserved justice. But God can

have mercy on whomever He wants. He owes it to no man! People react as if this is shameful to accuse

God of something so shocking as condemning Esau prior to his birth, but it says it right there! Some have

tried writing it off to make hate mean love less. This understanding would still not ease the problem

they have with the statement of Gods choice, nor would it fit their theology that God loves every man in

the same amount and manner.If they had a true biblical understanding of Gods holiness and mans

sinfulness they would not be so shocked by Esau I hated but more by Jacob I loved1. This is the

amazing thing about grace- it is undeserved and bestowed on God-hating sinners in order to turn them into

saints. God does it purely to make His glory known (verses 22-23). It is about Him and not about us. This isa God-centered theology instead of a man-centered theology.

After teaching election Paul moves onto the first objection he knows will be raised- thats not fair! We

see in verse 14 that Paul knows whats coming: What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is

there? Upon hearing this truth men will immediately accuse God of being unjust. This is where Paul

draws from Exodus 33 and explains that God can have mercy or compassion on whomever He pleases.

This is part of who God is! God has the free will to grant mercy. Besides, Esau never got injustice anyway;

he got exactly what he deserved- wrath. God doesnt owe mercy to either Jacob or Esau. If He decides to

show mercy on Jacob it does not mean He is also under obligation to do the same for Esau. Paul reiterates it

in verse 16 that it does not depend on mans will to be saved but on Gods. Again, he could not be stronger

or clearer: So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. This goes

hand-in-hand with all the points made previously regarding mans inability to choose God. He also cites

Pharaoh as an example of someone He raised up for the very purpose of showing His power.

Again, Paul is ready for the obvious objection- why does he still blame us and hold us accountable?

Verse 19 shows he knows whats coming: You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who

resists His will?" For many Pauls answer is frustrating. But it should be familiar because it is the same

answer Job gets after raising the same accusation. He complained for almost 40 chapters about the injustice

he was being shown by God. God answers the same way the Holy Spirit directs Paul to answer- Youre just

a man, why do you think you can question God! Paul then uses the potter and clay illustration to show that

1 Comment originally heard from pastor James White


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God has the right over His creation to do whatever He pleases. If He wants to create a vessel of mercy such

as Jacob to make His mercy known, He is free to do so. If He wants to raise up a vessel of wrath like Esau

or Pharaoh simply to make His justice and power known, He is free to do so. In this we see the whole point

of creation- to glorify God! It is not about us, it is about HIM! We as vessels cannot complain to the maker

and say He has done wrong. The potter can take from one lump of clay and make both a beautiful vase and

a garbage can. Its all up to Him. Its HIS clay that HE formed for HIS purpose. The garbage can cannot

say to the potter hey, its not fair that you made me to hold trash, I want to be like the vase. Paul shows

how asinine such a scenario would be.

You must ask yourself which side you are on- the objectors or Pauls. Just think about it. If this passage

were not teaching the doctrine of election based purely on the will of God and not man, then why would

Paul ever need to answer these objections? Who would ever raise the objection of fairness or injustice if

Paul were actually teaching human free will? No one ever accused God of injustice in that system! The fact

that Paul anticipates and answers the same objections that are still raised today prove that he is truly

teaching election based on Gods predestination. Again, this is a difficult concept for many to accept, but it

must be said again and again that we are called as Christians to believe and submit to the teachings of

Scripture even if we dont like them.

For a wonderful and contextual exegesis of this passage, you can download a free mp3 here (under the

Latest Apologetics Articles called Romans 9 - An Exegesis to Share): http://www.aomin.org/

Additional Verses That Should not be Ignored

Acts 16:14A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God,

was listening; andthe Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

Lydia had her heart opened by God in order to respond. Had God not done so Lydia would not have

responded. She did not open her own heart. Lydia deserves no credit to believing and neither do we.

Acts 18:9-10And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, "Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do

not be silent, for I am with you, and no man will attack you in order to harm you,for I have many people

in this city."

God is telling Paul to preach because He has many people in that particular city. The beauty of these verses

is that they show not only the imperative to evangelize and the guarantee of success, but also the means bywhich He calls the elect unto Himself, namely preaching. Jesus gives the same basic guarantee: that His

sheep will hear and they will come.

John 6:37, 39, 44, 65 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will

certainly not cast out"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing,

but raise it up on the last day"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I

will raise him up on the last dayAnd He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, thatno one can

come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

To say that this means that Gods creates people for hell is just a straw man argument. It has been

responded to numerous times It is not only inaccurate, but it is downright dishonest, sadly. No one goes

to hell only because God chooses not to draw them to him. Men endure eternal punishment because of

the holiness of God and their own sin. The very idea that God is under the slightest duty to provide mercyand grace to sinful men is part and parcel of humanistic religion, not biblical truth. And this kind of

sentimentality as theology viewpoint has led, many times in recent history, directly into the quagmire of

universalism. - pastor James White

This passage can hardly be done justice to in this short space. But we again see Jesus classifying believers

as those given by the Father to the Son. We see the guarantee that those who are given WILL come and

they WILL be kept because Jesus will lose none. We see that God must grant the ability to come. Jesus

unashamedly teaches the inability of man both here and throughout the gospel of John.


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A great exegetical book called Drawn by the Father (a mere 60 pages) on this specific passage can be

found here or you can borrow one of our copies we have to hand out:

http://www.aomin.org/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=43_48&products_id=55

John 10:26-29 "Butyou do not believe because you are not of My sheep. "My sheep hear My voice, and I

know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; andno one

will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; andno one

is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

We again see the use of the word know by Christ. He uses it in a greater meaning than simple mental

knowledge. He refers to all the believers as his sheep and then tells the Pharisees that the reason they do not

believe is because they are not His sheep. It is not the other way around. We do not become sheep by

believing but rather believe because we are sheep. He also gives the same guarantee of success when He

says they WILL hear his voice and WILL follow Him. Then He tells us that no one can take them out of

His hand. This no one includes ourselves of course. Jesus makes no exception for people jumping out of

His hand as some have speculated. Also, notice this same group repetitively being referred to as given by

the Father to the Son. This is consistent throughout Jesus words in the book of John. This same group is

always drawn and kept by Christ. Some have tried to make the claim that Jesus draws everyone and

immediately jump to John 12:32 (if I be lifted up Ill draw all men to me). They try to make the case that

this means every individual ever is drawn. This is a completely different context and would mean universal

salvation for everyone since He has already told us that those He draws will come and will be lifted up onthe last day. He says this group will be saved three times in John 6 alone. So when He says He will draw

everyone it is clearly not a statement all individuals but all mankind (every type and kind of person from all

over the world). Another more obvious reason that interpretation is impossible is because we know there

are men that have died without ever even hearing the name of Christ. Clearly they were not drawn in the

sense that people are trying to use this verse to mean. The two statements cannot be equivocated.

1 John 5:1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God

The verb tense in the Greek makes it clear that all those going on believing in Jesus (present tense

continuous action) have been born of God (perfect tense, previous action with abiding effects). So again we

see that regeneration precedes faith. The fact that someone is presently going on believing shows that they

have FIRST been born again.

Further in depth exegesis on 1 John 5:1 can be seen here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPzSKI6jvY&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5_WvgOxq8A&feature=player_embedded

Whosoever

There are many more verses that could be addressed. One important set of verses that are often cited in

refutation to these doctrines are those that contain the words whosoever. This is a very common mistake

that people make but also a very easy one to correct. Most will read the verses saying whosoever and just

say it implies ability for everyone. Some good examples of this would be

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God so

loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,

but have everlasting life.

Acts 2:21And it shall come to pass. That whosoever shall call on the name of the lord shall be saved

But what is the Greek word for whosoever? There is none! There is not a Greek word meaning

whosoever at all. The word used is pas and it just means all. So the question is all what? All believers.

In fact, some modern translations have these translated more accurately to avoid the confusion and they

read everyone who believes or all believers. The literal rendering of the Greek text is all the believing

ones. Everyone that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved- no doubt about it. God loved the world

so much He gave His only son so all believers will not die but live forever- again, absolutely! The


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translation of whosoever is not wrong as long as people dont try to cram so much false theology into that

one word. Especially since it isnt even a direct translation. People try to make it say that it implies ability

when there is not even a hint of that in the passage. The Greek bears it out. A good example of the word

being used in a similar sense would be if we had a bunch of guys lined up that were going to play baseball.

They number off 1-2 all the way down the line to designate teams. Everyone would either be a one or a

two. We could say all the twos are up to bat first or everyone thats a two is up to bat or whoever the

twos are get to bat first. The term whosoever doesnt imply that anyone can just decide to be a two. That

is not how the term is used in Scripture. We cannot make it say more than what is intended in order to

support a theology that is not being taught. Whosoever believes is the same as all believers. There is no

difference in the text. Christ came so all believers would have everlasting life.

The Will of God

Another area of confusion is in the will of God. The distinction must be made between the prescriptive

will of God, found in His law, and the decretive will of God, which envisions the existence of evil, and all

the corollaries that flow there from2. Men can never successfully resist God's decretive will. Such

passages as, "For who hath resisted his will?" (Rom. 9:19) and "...he doeth according to his will in the

army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What

doest thou?" (Dan. 4:35), etc., make this clear. Men do resist and disobey the Bible which is God's revealed

will, but only when and to the extent God allows. However, what God has decreed is always accomplished.

Ephesians 1:11 says that God "worketh all things after the counsel of his own will". This verse refers to the

secret will of God in which He decreed all things before the foundation of the world 3. Believing andrepenting is more than a mere offer- it is a command. In that sense it is the prescriptive will of God, just as

it is His will/command for no one to murder or kidnap, or even for Pharaoh to let His people go. Hence we

ascribe to God the concept of "desire" and say God does not "desire" that man do these things2. Yet it is

His decretive will for Pharaoh to harden his heart in order for God to make His power known in him. It is

likewise His decretive will for Josephs brothers to violate His prescriptive will by kidnapping Joseph and

selling him into slavery. He used their evil deeds for good. He knew what they were going to do, He could

have stopped them from doing it, and He used it for His purposes. In other words, He ordained it.

Gen 50:20As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for goodin order to bring about this

present result, to preserve many people alive.

So in one sense we can say it is Gods (prescriptive) will that all be saved, because He commands all men

to repent and believe. But in another sense, God does not will all men to be saved because they arent allsaved. His (decretive) will is always done and never thwarted. When The Lord wills to save someone they

are saved. We can see Hisprescriptive will when Paul prays that the Colossian believers will be filled

with the knowledge of His will (Col 1:9). Hes not praying they will have special revelation about the

secret decrees of God, but rather that they will know His commands. We read of the decretive will when

Jesus prays not my will, but yours be done (Luke 22:42). We know Jesus being falsely accused and

murdered is not in line with the prescriptive will of God, but we also know that it was completely

predestined and in accord with the decretive will of God (Acts 4:28).

The problem is in trying to read into God's will our own self-limitations. We can freely offer the gospel to

all, not because we reject election, nor because we ascribe to God a human-oriented desire that runs directly

counter to His own self-revelation and consistency, but because we do not know the identity of the elect,

and we have the full promise of Scripture that no man, no woman, no child, will ever, ever turn in faith to

Jesus Christ and yet be rejected by Him. ALL who believe will be saved. Will any man believe outside ofGod's grace, God's granting of repentance and faith? Surely not, but again, we do not possess knowledge of

the identity of the elect. Hence, we can freely and properly proclaim the duty to repent and believe to all,

knowing that those who do so will be those God has drawn to Himself. We find ourselves completely

consistent with the Apostle who likewise said he endured all the trials and tribulations of the ministry "for

the sake of the elect" (2 Timothy 2:10). pastor James White

2 Quote from James White3 From Article by Curtis Pugh found here: http://www.libcfl.com/articles/doc.htm


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For a more in depth study of this topic see here:

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/1995/1580_Are_There_Two_Wills_in_God/

One passage that some try to apply this to is 1 Tim 2:4. The previous point could be used to explain it but a

simple look at the context will suffice.

1 Tim 2:1-6 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on

behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all

godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be

saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God

and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper

time.

We start by noting Pauls point- every kindof man, even those in authority, should be prayed for because

God will save men from any and every group of people. Christ is the single mediator between God and

mankind and He was a ransom for every kind of person. Verse 1 is not a decree that we need to pray for

every individual ever. We do not need to pick up the phone book and start praying our way through it

because it says to pray for all men. Paul is speaking of all kinds of men, not all in the sense of every

individual person ever. You can see this when he starts describing what he means by saying even those in

authority. It is a class type he is talking about. This is the context that carries through to verse 4 where he

says God desires the salvation of all men. This is all types of men. We do not serve a God that wantssomething and doesnt get it. There will be men saved from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation with no

regard to social or economic class or race. God is no respecter of persons. The apostles had to explain time

and time again that it was not just the Jews that would be saved. This principle is taught in nearly every

epistle. It took repeated emphasis that God was granting salvation to more than just Israel. In this case, Paul

is telling Timothy that there are people that are going to be saved from every type/class of people, even

those in authority. This was most likely surprising since these were the kind of people persecuting the

Christians. So we can see how the context explains away the common misinterpretation.

Paul is also not saying Jesus was a ransom for every man that ever lived either. If He were we would be

looking at another universal salvation text because if Jesus was our ransom then we will be saved. This will

take us to our next point of atonement.

A more in depth exegesis of this 1 Timothy text can be found here:https://aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3018

Atonement

Atonement is a very important doctrine because it is not only how our sin is paid for but it is also the great

work of Christ on the cross. To get atonement wrong is to steal glory from Jesus by diminishing His great

work on our behalf. We are told He propitiated (satisfied) the wrath of God and atoned for our sins as a

substitute by bearing our sins on the cross. All those He died for in turn receive His imputed righteousness

and are interceded for by the Son to the Father. So the question that needs to be raised is was anyone

actually saved at the cross by the death of Christ? We believe the Bible is clear that indeed all believers

were saved. So how can it be said that Jesus died for all meaning every single person that ever lived?

How can Jesus do the exact same thing for us (believers) as He did for everyone in hell (non-believers)? If

Jesus did the same thing for every person and yet some are not saved, then who decides salvation- man or

God? If He died for all then man is the ultimate decider in salvation. There is no biblical teaching that Jesusdied for every individual ever and atonement is merely applied to some. The Scriptures that are used to

promote that idea are read in isolation outside of their original historical and exegetical context. Scripture

must be used to interpret Scripture. Sinners in hell do not have their sins atoned for by Christ. Their sins are

not paid for by Jesus, but rather by them. Thats the purpose of hell- to punish sin. Neither is the wrath of

God propitiated for those in hell. If it were, they would be in heaven with us for God would have no wrath

remaining to pour out on them. God poured out His cup of wrath on Christ at the cross, but only for the sins

of believers. Also, sinners in hell do not receive the imputed righteousness of Christ and are not interceded

for by the Son to the Father. Yet this is the case for those that Christ died for. To say that Christ atoned for

every individual that ever lived and that people still go to hell is to say that Christ never actually saved


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anyone; He just would have made them savable. We believe the Bible clearly teaches that Christ actually

literally saves. His atonement is not limited in its power to save but rather limited in its scope and intention.

It was powerful enough to save any and all of course, but only designed to save His sheep. To say

otherwise demeans the cross of Christ.

Isa 53:5But He was pierced throughfor our transgressions, He was crushedfor our iniquities; The

chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, Andby His scourging we are healed.

1 Peter 2:24 andHe Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to

righteousness; forby His wounds you were healed.

Matt 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, forHe will save His people from their

sins."

Matt 20:28just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and togive His life a ransom for

many."

Matt 26:28for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

John 10:11,14-15I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his lifefor the sheepI am the

good shepherd, andI know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know theFather;and I lay down My life for the sheep.

John 17:2, 9, 24 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh,that to all whom You have given Him, He

may give eternal life"I ask on their behalf;I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You

have given Me; for they are Yours; "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me

where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the

foundation of the world.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we werereconciled to God through the death of His Son, much

more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Gal 1:3-4 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for

our sins so that He might rescue usfrom this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law,having become a curse for usfor it is written,

"CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE

Titus 2:14 who gave Himself for us to redeem usfrom every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a

people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Heb 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him,since He

always lives to make intercession for them.

Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves,but through His own blood, He entered the holy

place once for all,having obtained eternal redemption.

Eph 5:2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a

sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

Rom 8:32-34He who did not spare His own Son, butgave him up for us all---how will he not also, along

with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring a charge against those whom God has chosen? It is

God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died---more than that, who was raised to

life---isat the right hand of God and is also interceding for us

Rom 3:24-25 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom


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God displayed publiclyas a propitiation in His bloodthrough faith.

Heb 2:17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful

and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

1 John 4:10In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son tobe the

propitiation for our sins.

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: thatChrist died for our sins

in accordance with the Scriptures

John 11:51-52He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that yearhe prophesied that

Jesus would die for the nation, andnot for the nation only, but alsoto gather into one the children of

Godwho are scattered abroad.

Rev 5:9And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals;for

You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people

and nation.

This is the all men spoken of in Scripture- all mankind, not every single individual ever. You cannot say

Jesus saves you, He died for every person ever, and some people go to hell. That statement is imposs

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