legislative assembly hansard 1941 - parliament.qld.gov.au

Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 7 OCTOBER 1941

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

598 Question. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

TUESDAY, 'i OCTOBER, 1941.

1fr. SPEAKER (Hon. E. J. Hanson, Bnranda) took the chair at 10.30 a.m.

QUESTION. PROMOTION OF UNIFORM A)[D OTHER

POLICE.

lUr. NICKLIN (Murrumba), for lUr. NIJUMO (Oxley), asked the Secretary for Health and Home Affairs-

'' 1. How many members of the uniform branch of the Police Force have been engaged continuously on plain clothes work, performing the same duties as classified detectives, for more than one year~

'' 2. Will he take steps to ensure that such members are given the same pay and opportunities as members of the detective branch f''

The SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HOME AFFAIRS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon, Ithaca) replied-

'' 1. None. "2. See answer to No. 1."

PAPERS.

The following papers were laid on the table:-

Orders in Council (2) under the Primary Producers' Organisation and Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1939.

Report of the Brisbane Milk Board for the year 1940-41, also the report of the Auditor-General on the books and accounts of the Board.

ADOPTION OF CHILDREN ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

INITIATION.

The SECRETARY !<'OR HEAL'l'H AND HOME AI<'F AIRS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon. Ithaca): I move-

'' That the House will, at its next sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider of' the desirableness of introducing a Bill to amend the Adoption of Children Act of 19 35 in certain particuJars.''

Motion agreed to.

HEALTH ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.

IKITIATION.

The SECRETARY !<'OR HEALTH ANJ) HOME AFI<'AIRS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon, Ithaca): I move-

'' 'rhat the House will, at its next sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider of' the desirableness of introducing a Bill to amend the Health Acts, 1937 to 1939, in certain particulars.''

Motion agreed to.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.

INITIATION.

T1te SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HOME Al<'F .AIUS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon, Ithaca): I move-

" That the House will, at its next sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider of' the desirableness of introducing a Bill to amend the Local Government Acts, 1936 to 1940, in certain particulars, a:nd for other purposes.''

Motion agreed to.

SUPPLY.

RESUMPTIOl\ OF CO~I1IITTEE-ES'l'IMATES

FIRST ALLOTTED DAY.

(J\Ir. Gair, South BTisbane, in the chair.)

ESTIMATES IN CHIEF, 1941-1942.

EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLA'l'IVE.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

Debate resumed from 1 October (seep. 568) on the question-

'' That £31,038 be granted for 'Legislative Assembly.' "

Supply. [7 OcTOBER.] Supply. 599

Mr. MOORHOUSE (Windsor) (10.35 a.m.) : Mention of the Legislative Assembly brings to my mind the question of what it really is.

The Premier: This is the place that! people try very hard to get into. (Laughter.)

Mr. MOO RH OUSE: This is the place where legislation is made. At election time we hear criticism of the legislation that has been passed by previous Administrations, but I have yet to find that any legislation that has been or is oppressive has been amended. Jn this Chamber the governing body has complete control of the State inasmuch as there is no Upper House to veto nny legislation it may pass.

As we were elected by the people we shoulrl express the views of the people, not the indi,~idual views of each hon. member. I have heard it said that we should express our own opinions, but I think that I am simply the delegate <Of the people of Windsor and it is my duty as such to express their views, not mine. Right through my public life it has been my practice, when any contentious matter has arisen, to ask my committee to call a public meeting by circular, and to take my instructions from that public meeting. It is mv firm belief that a mem!Jer of Parliament sl{ould he nothing more nor less than the delegate of the people he represents.

1\"e should legislate for the people, not for tl1e monopolies or combines. As an illustration of the control that monopolies and combines have, \Ye have only to look to the Comnwnwea1th Government's practice of letting eontracts to munition-makers on the cost-plusprofit system. I ventnre the opinion that if monopolies and combines had no control over the J<'ederal Parliament this vicious cost-plusprofit system would be abolished, for I am sure that the abuses to which it is subjected are known by eYcryonc. Under it the manufacturer has no incentive to manufacture his guods speedily; the longer he takes to manufacture an article the greater its cost, and the greater the profit he makes. As an instance of the lack of incentive to speed np manufactures, I mention the laying of the keels of certain ~hips in one of our shipbuilding yards. Those keels, although they were laid with pomp and ceremony, are still in the same condition to~day as they >Yore when they \\'ere laid a considerable time ago.

I should like to suggest that when a Minister is introducing a new Bill, or proposing an amendment to existing legislation, it might be of admntage if lie circulated his introductoq speech some time before he deliwrs it. Hon. members would then have an opportunity of studying the proposed Bill or amendment ( arefully with the aiel of his explanation and understanding exactly what it was proposed to do. 'l'hat would !Je much easier than endeavouring to glean the mcnning of the proposer! measure \Yhilst the Minister \Yns delivering his introductory speech. If that suggestion >Yas followccl, I feel sure the Government would reap the benefit in constructive criticism, and there >vould be much

less of the obstructiVe criticism we hear to-day.

I thnnk the Premier for the remarks he made the other day when one or two hon. members of this Assembly abused or criticised one or two hon. members on this side of the Clwmber f<OI' either reading their speeches or nsing copious notes. The Premier's indication of a tolerant attitude \Yas gratifying to me, ancl I desire to thank him for it.

I had copious notes of my first speeches because I am a newcomer to parliamentary life, a'nd I know that there is an art in upholding one's position in this Assembly. A member might be disconcerted by interjections, and so apt to lose the thread of his thought, and say something that he really did not intend to say.

The Treasurer: Some do that without interjections.

lUr. MOORIIOUSE: I agree. I feel that if some hon. members of this Committee were to write what they intended to say they would not say it when they read it. (Laughter.) I refer particularly to the hon. member who IYants to tear the Story Bridge do>m; I think that if he \Yere to write his speeches he woulfl not express such ridiculous sentiments. However, I am afraid that the statement about the Story Bridge is in keeping with his school of thought.

Jir. Edwards: He never said it. The 'l'reasurer: Apology by proxy.

~Ir. JliOORHO{;"SE: The hon. member for Oxley said that I bored him when I made a speceh in this Chamber a few days ago.

JUr. ~Iassey: That is only natural.

.lUr. lUOORHOUSE: I realise that members of the United Australia Party and Country Party would be bored by constructive criticism; one never expects to get anything constructive from them, because their school of thought is definitely negative.

It wns the hon. member for West :Moreton who actually raised the objection to the reading of copious notes. Some years ago we saw huge signs plastered throughout Queensland promising, '' £2,000,000 for 10,000 jobs.'' Look how well that promise was carried out! The party of which the hon. member was one followed the advice of Sir Otto Niemeyer. 'rhe first thing his party did \\'aS to introduce relief work, and when it was introduced there was nothing constructive in the make-up of his party. It caused the people of Queensland who were compelied to seek relief work to undertake the degrading job of chipping grass from footpaths; nothing of a constructive nature was undertaken. Thrrt party also forced upon the unfortunate relief worker a route march of 25 miles before he could draw rations. That was how this £2,000,000 was used for the benefit of the people. Our duty is not to pull down, but to Teeonstruct or at least assist in the re0onstruction, and I think that if speeches were wTitten by many hon. members of this Committee we might get constructive ideas to

600 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

help the Government in carrying out their policy.

I should like to see the power of recall on the statute-book; I am sure that if it were there the hon. member for West Moreton would be recalled on account of utterances he has made.

lUr. BARNES (Bundaberg) (10.44 a.m.): J;'rom Press reports I have gathered a little of what has been said in this debate, and at the outset I should like to say that our Chairman of Committees and Speaker of this Assembly are at least 60 per cent. better tha"n the corresponding officers in the Federal House. One qualification for each of those offices is a strong voice with which to keep order-both }'ederal men haye weak Yoices. The order maintained in the Federal House whilst I was there was ''putrid.'' The conduct in this Assembly is considerably better than it is in the Federal Parliament.

If the public attended the debates in this Chamber they would naturally be disappointeu, and that is one reason \vhy they place the politician on such a low grade. They consider the politician to be a racketeer, and I agree with them. In the first place, this Assembly makes the law and e:x;pects the people to abide by it, but no-one enforces the law. How can we win the respect of the public in such circumstances~ We have a Labour Government who are supposed to represent the people-if my \Yord is not understood to-Jay it will be understood in the future-and I say that there is no relation between the present GoYernment and the working people. That is one reason why the people as a whole are ' 'crookBd'' on the Government.

The CHAIR~IAN: Order! The hon. member will not be in order in discussing the Government policy on this vote. He will )Je at liberty to discuss the institution of Parliament, the staff, the administration, and the buildings, &c., but only those matters.

Mr. BARNES: Can I discuss the legislation that has been passed by this Parliament~

The CHAIRMAN: No.

lUr. BARNES: I have the right to discuss the carrying out of those laws have I not~

The CHAIRlUAN: I have already indica'ted to the hon. member what scope he has on this vote. He will not be permitted to discuss legislati·on that has bBen enacted or is about to be enacted. ''May,'' thirteenth eiiition, at page 538, says-

'' The administrative a'ction of a department is open to debate, but the necessity for legislation and matters involving legislation cannot bB discussed in Committee of Supply.''

Mr. BARNES: I read in "Hansard" and in the Press that other speakers followed other lines. For instance, discussion on the Public Safety Act was stopped. Other hon. members referred to other matters, and they were not stopped.

The CHAIRMAN: If the hon. member had read '' Hansarrl'' carefully he would have found that the hon. member who introduced tlw subject of the Public Safety Act was told by the Temporary Chairman of Committees that he was not in order in discussing it.

Mr. BARNES: Yes, I appreciate that, but hE- was not told that he was not in order in speaking about other things.

The CHAIRJUAN: I suggest that the hon. member should proceed with his speech along tho lines indicated by me.

~Ir. BARNES: The Premier made the statement that the Federal Budget provided for orthodox finance. If the Premier is sincere in his statement that the Budget providBs for orthodox finance and not unorthodox finance, then he will admit that if he knows anything about unorthodox finance he should be tarred and feathered for not advocating unorthodox finance at Loan Council meetings in the interests of the workers.

The CHAIRlUAN: Order! I hope the hon. n1ember for Bundaberg is not going to persist in debating subjects that are not covered by the vote before the Con>mittee. The debate on the Financial Statement is concluded, and hon. mBmbers had one hour to debate matter~ of a financial nature. I ask the hon. member to proceed with his speech along the lines that I have already indicated. If he does not do that I shall be compelled to ask him to resume his seat.

~fr. BARNES: The position, summed up, is that we are glorified messengers. Our constituents are continually writing to us to do this and to do that, and we are doing those thinas for them. Thus the pc;ople are gBtting the ,..,idea that we arB glorified messengers. ~What respect can we demand from them, if tl; at is how they rega"rd us~ Every hon. me m· Joer knows that he receives a tremendous mail containing these requests, but if he did his job properly and legislated as he should there would be no need for< him to do these petty jobs.

When our constituents continually ask their representatives to do this, that, and t~e oth~r thing and he endeavours to comply >nth theu reque~t the result is that they ultimately become his boss and in turn demand that the Government should do this or that. ~Whilst that feeling exists among the people the respect that members of Parliament shoulrl command will not obtain.

lUr. !Iann: They thought from your election speeches that you were a fairy prince, that you merely had to wave a wand and obtain all they require.

!Ir. BARNES: There is one thing you cannot do and that is think.

The CHAIR!IAN: Order!

3Ir. BARNES: I am not allowed to say how the respect members of Parliament are held in influences public opinion. J<'ortunately, the public to-day are critical,. and so the politician will be ridiculed until he


becomes a true representative of the people again. In the past politicians were supposed to know more a bout politics than the public, but, unfortunately, to-day the public know more about politics than the politician. Proof of that is to be had in this Parliament. It is to be hml also in the Federal Labour Party's policy, and what the;' promise the people, but as that has no relation to legislation in this Assembly 1 must not proceed on those lines.

The people want to know why the Federal Labour Party and the Queensland Labour Party d<C) not legislate in acc01•dance with Labour's policy. That is another reason why the people are ''crooked'' on politicians. It is said among many other things by the man in the street ''You are a member of Parliament; you can feather your nest now.'' I do not know whether there is any truth in that statement, but in order to prevent such remarks it would be desirable to ascertain the truth by requiTing hon. members, on the request of two or three other hon. members, t<• furnish their balance-sheet at the end of the year. Then, if there is any racketeering they will hide in a hollow log-or hide thci; money there. It would be no discredit to a man to be £100 in debt this year and in nedit £5,000 next year, if he came by it honestly. The fad remains that if politicians were compelled to issue a balance-sheet at the request of at least two hon. members it would afford proof to the public, to say the very least of it, that racketeering was not going on in Parliament.

Mr. Mann: Only a man with your mind would think so.

The CHAIRMAN: Order!

Mr. BARNES: The hon. member for Brisbane will agree that it is said outside Parliament that when you become a politician you feather your own nest and a're not interested in the publir.

Mr. 1\Iann: It may be in the country, but it is not so in the city.

1\Ir. BARNES: If chat is so then what will be the status of an hon. member in this ParliamenH We must do something to preyent this fe~ling, and the only way to do so rs for Parliament to pass a measure compelling every hon. member to produce his balance-sheet. Looking round the Assembly at the present time, I realise that many of them would not relish that. They are supposed to represent the workers, but that is not so. If hon. members were to publish such balancesheets they would show, for instance, whether they had hotel or brewery shares in Scotland. If every hon. member is sincere in saying that he does no objection will be made to such a measure. If hon. members are honest why should not such a measure be passed? We shall have an opportunity, if not in this session, then in the next session, to see how honest hon. members are.

Mr. Mann: You are judging everybody by y0urself.

1\Ir. BARNES: I am an honest man, but you would not understand that. The Government represent 42 members, and if they are willing to help in putting such a Bill through they will prove their honesty. And if they are dishonest-that is another matter.

The Secretary for Mines: You have not said anything yet.

Mr. BARNES: You are a layman and you misconstrued m'y statement.

The CHAIRMAN: Order!

Mr. BARNES: The Minister misconstrued my statement in this Chamber, and gave that misconstrued statement to the public. Despite the fact that he is a lay :reader and his brother a Methodist Church parson, he can get away from it in this l1:tamber and misrepresent--

The CHAIRMAN: Order! permit the hon. member to personalities.

I will not indulge in

Mr. DECKER (Sandgate) (10.56 a.m.) : I wish to express my appreciation to the Clerk of Parliament and his assistants for their help to new hon. members. I also express appreciation of the servires of the messengers.

I am very pleased with our library and the excellent attention given to hon. members by the librarian and his assistants in helping them to get the books they require. I wish to place on record my appreciation of the librarian's service to me as a new hon. member.

I wish also to congratulate the reporting staff on their work. It must be a very difficult task to follow the debate sometimes in this Chamber and to report it with the accuracy that characterises their work. My own reports are virtually faultless and I haYe almost no corrections to m'ake.

The PRE:iliiER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) (10.57 a.m.): First of all, I have been interested in the views expressed by hon. members about Parliament. Parliament, of course, is the instrument through which democracy expresses its will. That is the correct definition and the foundation of Parliament. And the test of democracy is that no man should be expected to observe the law unless he has some say in the making of that law; in other words, in a dem'ocracy, law should be made by consent-by the consent of the majority of the people.

Inasmuch as individuals cannot be a law unto themselves experience has shown the desirability, the necessity of establishing the system of representative government, consequently in Queensland we have triennial elections, whereby all the adults of the State elect their representatives to this Parliament. The representative character of Parliament cannot be over-emphasised. A member of Parliament represents the people; he holds a power of attorney on behalf of the people for the period for which he is elected; and according to the manner in which he exercises that


power of attorney so will the standard of Parliament be determined.

Democracy, of course, occasionally throws up strang-e freaks on the sea shore. All kinds of peculiar individuals have been from time to time, elected to Parliament. For example, I haYe known people quite unwittingly elect an utter blackguard to Parliament. That, of course, is not any argument against democl."acy, or the representatiYo system. They may elect to Parliament men of low instincts, men who habitually consort with ''crooks'' of Yarious descriptions and who later give expression to the kind of conYersation they hear in the immediate circle of these ~heir own fTiends. But it would be a very sony <lay for Parliament if we were to ju_dge a ~emoerncy and its Parliament by tlns occaswnal aberration in a: single electorate. 'i'irne cures such eYils, and the pepple can be trusted to remove that type of individual in uue season. Given a rope long enough he finally hangs himself, or supplies sufficient evidence to enable the people to hang him.

The suggestion made by the hon. member for Windsor is worthy of consideration. It conld be put into effect with a rlY:mtage on suitable occasions. Indeed, in the case of a dif!icult and involved Bill, it has been the practice of the Government to circulate, amongst hon. members, not the Minister's speech, but a precis of the legal implications of the Bill bv attaching it to the Bill. That was done with the Companies Bi]] by Mr. N. Macgroarty, Attorney-General in the Moore Government. It was <lone by me as Secretary for Public Works in relation to the Unemployed Workers Insurance Bill. It was done when I introduced the consoliuated taxation Bill, the Income Tax Assessment Bill. That precis, and the speech based on it, I understand, have been found very valuable to students of accountancy, who have to take papers on taxation and taxation law. It is desirable that all people affected by a law should know that law and to that en.d should have. it stated as clearly and simply as possible.

Generally speaking, the forms of Parliament are sufficient. Notice has to be given of a motion affirming the desirableness of introducing a Bill, and that motion is then ~onsidered in Committee, and when the motion IS moved t?e Minister gives a precis of the proposed Bill. If it is carried, the Bill is presented! ordered to be printed, and read a first time. With the initiatory speech of the ~inister in charge of the Biil, plus the Bill Itself, hon. members should get a fair idea of the implications of any ordinary measure.

. That is the usual procedure. Usually, some hme lapses between each two stages of a Bill. If the Bill contains a wide departure in policy, and is of major importance, there is nothing· wrong in issuing with the Bill a precis to indicate its implications; in fact, there is everything to be said for doing so. One cannot lay down any hard and fast rules, but generally speaking, the practice I have described is a good one.

Vote (Legislative Assembly) agreed to.

PREMIER AC>ID CHIEF SECRETARY's DEPARTMENT.

CHIEF OF]'ICE.

'l'he PRElUIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) : I moYe-

' ''rh at £14,949 be granted for 'Premier anr1 Chief Secretary's Departm·ent-Chief Office.' ''

Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba) (11.5 a.m.): The Premier and Chief Secretary's office now controls many activities that previously did not come under its administration, consequently the vote has been almost doubled in the last 10 years or so. That may be due to some extent to the fact that more sub-departments are controlled by the Premier and Chief Secretary. I take it, Mr. Gair, that under the Chief Office vote you will follow the practice that was adopted last year of allowing discussion on Trust and Special Funds and Loan Fund~

'.l.'lle CHAIRiUAN: No.

Mr. NICKLIN: That being so, I do not wish to say anything further on this vote.

1\Ir. iliAHER (West Moreton) (11.7 a.m.): I should like some details from the Premier as to the expenuiture under the heading of ''Incidental and Miseellaneous Expenses'' for which £5,600 is provided for the current year. There is a good deal of talk at Canberra about a secret fund, involving the sum of £4,800, anr1 I should like to know the nature of the expenditure under this heading. In what way is this amount accounteu for} It is a good deal of money, one-third of the vote for the Chief Office, and no dct[li]s are given. It is ,iust possible that there might be a secret fund here that would mise a storm equal in fury to that which mg:ed at Canberra.

The SECRETARY FOR HEAI!fH AND HOME XFFAIRS (Hon. E. l\1. Hanlon, Ithaca) (11.8 n.m.): The amount covers a multitude of expenses that the Chief Secretary bears. For instance, it covers cablegrams overseas, railway fares and freights, printing and statio,nery, gold passes for the Under Secretary and others, certain tickets for important visitors, and a multitude of expenses such as travelling expenses, advertising, State funerals, and various amonnts for the several functions that are controlled by the Chief Secretary's Department. The same thing occurs in every State department. If every indiviuual item of expenditure by the ym·ious departments was shown in the Estimates, hon. members would not be nble to carry round with them the heavy amount oi' stationery that would be involved. Certain expenditure has to be grouped in that way.

lUr. lUACDONALD (Stanley) (11.9 a.m.): The answer that the Minister has given us is far from satisfactory. 'i'his item of £5,600 is upwards of 33 per cent. of the total vote. In giving his explanation the Minister included such items ns cnblegTams, trawlling expenses, and so on, for >~-hich provision has

Supply. [7 OCTOBER.] Supply. 603

been made already. To me, the Minister has given no explanation at all. I should like to hear the Premier's explanation.

The PRElUIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Macka;r) (11.10 a.m.): I do not know what information hon. members want. The item is the same .as has been passed eyery year, to meet vanous commitments of the Chief Secretary's Department.

,For example, m:ty rebate granted by the Dc.partment of Railways or any pass granted by that department is a charge upon the Chief Secretary's vote. Furthermore a reduction in ~reight for a specific reason, s;1ch as drought, IS a charge to this department because the D~partment of Railways as a trading enter, pr1se should not be debited with it. Any losses under the Discharged S'oldiers' Settlement Act or any i~terest under that Act is a· charge upon the Chief Secretary's Department; certain advances may be made under that Act and an.Y ~osses that might accrue are a charge' upon Hns I!em from an administrative point of view. 'l'he Item iloes not cover soldier settlements gener'ally, but does cover a specific Act and calls upon it for a fnirly large sum each 'year.

!'h~re is an increase of £883 over the appro, prwt:on for the Chief Office for last year, and of th.lS. £683 represents sala'ry increases and the rcmammg £200 is in contingencies. As hon. members know, grade increases were made in cnns~gnencc of the basic,wage increase, and provisiOn has been macle f·or an adr1itional clerk, typist. The expenditure for railway fares freights, &r, has been rei!uced by £400, and there ha's been an increase in ''Incidental and ::11iscellaneous Services'' of £600. That is on n ccount of certain war,time activities such as the· ~arriage of p~rcels on the railways and the Issue of free hckets to soldiers whilst on kave .. The estimated expenditure on incidental and m1scellaneous expenses is made by depart, mental officers ani! is based on previous experi, ence.

Mr. MAHER (West Moret.on) (11.13 R.m.): I am not altogether satisfied with the explanation given by the Premier, because the sum of £5,600 represents more than one-third of 'the total of the Chief Office vote. No attempt has been made to particularise some of the more important expenditure that would ccnne under this rather expensive item. I think wo are justified in asking how this sum is to ;l,e sp~nt. It is poked away under the heading

Incidental and Miscellaneous Expenses.''

T1Ie Premier: Nothing is poked away at all.

)Ir. li'IAHER: The details are not visible. I am not suggesting anything underhand, but it will be remembered that in the Federal Par, liament recently there was a demand for details of a fund that was referred to as a secret fund. Members who belong to the same political pa'rty in the Feileral Parliament a's this Governme1lt raised quite a storm over that fund.

Tl1e Secretary for Health and Home Affairs: About the illegal use of it.

Mr. lUAHER: The Government made it clear that it was being used for a legitimate object. I think that this Committee is entitled to know something as to how that money is to be spent. The Premier has ihtimated tha't s·ome of it might be spent in rebates for the purposes of drought relief.

Hon. members, particularly those connected with the Country Party, would be glad to know how much money has been spent from the fund. It is important, too, that the people in rural districts should know how much the Goyernment hav~ made available by way of rebates on starving stock carried over the rnilways. It is also important to know how much has been spent in helping returned soldiers. It is only fair thn t the Premier should give the information to hon. members. I am not reflecting upon the Government's use of the fund and I am not suggestil1g that there is anything underhand, as the Secretary for Health and Home Affairs said by way of interjection,. but hon. members are entitled to more details concerning an item representing more than one-third of the total vote.

Mr. DECKER (Sandgate) (11.17 a.m.): I am not casting any reflections on the Government, but, like the hon. member for West Moreton, I cannot understand why such a big amount as £5,600 should be put down under the item of ''Incidental and 11iscellaneous Expenses." It is all very well to say that the money is required to meet any contingency that may arise. I would point out that an amount of £100 for "Euro, pean cablegrams'' is itemised, but that must be a small amount compared with some of the amounts that are included in the £5,600 for ''Incidental and Miscellaneous E'xpenses. ' ' This item is increased by £600 compared with that of last year, and hon. members are entitled to some more figures relating to the proposed expenditure from this sum. It may embrace quite a number of items that 1w know nothing abont, and if we were informe(l of them we should hnYc a better idea of the conduct of this department. Unless those details are given, then lYe are being asked to sign a blank cheque in respect of an amount that represents more than one,third of the totnl vote of the ''Chief Office.''

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, :\Tackay) (11.18 a.m.): The information reqnirecl by hon. members opposite has already been given fairly fully, but I am quite willing to give them more details about it.

Mr. Decker: Just some of the bigger items.

The PREMIER: Yes, I will give them to the hon. member. First, there is an item of £120 for passes for the Under Secretary and members of the Land Court. Then there is an amount of £331 for railway passes for clistinguisbed visitors to the State.

1Ur. Maher: There is no objection to that.

The PREMIER: That is in accordance sometimes with a message from the Prime


Minister whereby all the States agree to carry certain distinguished persons over the railways. Then there is an amount required for indigent people whose relatives are willing to look after them although they may not be in a position to pay their fares. Rail passes are given to many people in indigent circumstances.

lUr. Maher: Is that not financed by the Department of Labour and Industry and the Department of Health and Home Affairs~

The PRE~IIER: No. These are not people looking for work; these are indigent people 1rho frequently are sick.

Mr. lUaher: The Department of Health and Home Affairs has a fund, too.

The PREffiiER: That: is used where the persons concerned are going to hospital. In the case of my department a relative may desire to look after an indigent person, but he may not be able to pay his fare. If the circumstances warrant it, a pass is granted by the Chief Secretary's Department to enable the indigent person to travel to his relative. 'l'hat form of relief has been given for years-ever since I !Jave been in Parliament. This fund is used to make ()'rants in respect of railway fares to the" Country Wome.n 's Association and the Boy Scouts' orgamser. Then there is the provision for freight on books to the Bush Book Club and on books distributed by the Co~ntry Women's Association. It is also used to def~·ay the cost of printing for the Royal Soc1ety and other printing approYed by the Government. State Stores stationery is also includecl in this item.

'l'he expenses of the Premier are also included. I am usually absent from home about five months in the year attendina conferences in the other States and it ~ll be realised that expenditure fbr that purpose amount.s t? a fairly large sum, particularly when 1t Is remembered that the amount includes the expenses of a number of officers including the private secretary, the Assistant Under Secretary, and any other officer who may accompany the Premier to a Premiers' Conference, a meeting of the Loan Council or any other public conference. Provisio~ is also made for the private secretary to the Leader of the Opposition and his staff.

Mr. lUaher: No. His salary is included in a separate vote.

The PRElUIER: He is included in this vote.

~Ir. Maher: Not his salary.

The PREMIER: No, I am dealing with expenses, and the expenses of the private secretary to the Leader of the Opposition are included in this vote. Then there is the cost of motor cars, both ministerial cars and cars that may be placed at the disposal of distinguished visitors and those required for depaTtmental work generally. It also includes the expenditure on advertising, including the ''Courier-Mail, '' the '' Telegraph,'' the

''Truth,'' ''Courier-Mail Annual,'' '' Australia To-day,'' and the State High School Magazine. 'That accounts for £376.

Then there is the cost of entertaining, such as the dinner to the officet > of the American Fleet, the parliamentary lunch we gave to the Prime Minister the other day, and functions of a similar character. I make no apology for any of the State functions that are given in this building.

Other expenditure includes the cost of two State funerals. It also includes the cost of telephones and telegrams, postage and petty <:>ash, purchase of State seal, books, newspapers, office requisites, &c., assistance to Mr. J. Mathieu, Mrs. Mackay, &c., payments for personal services, inclucling an allowance to Major Stark, an allowance to Mr. J. Seymour, who acted as Parliamentary Draftsman during the illness of Mr. Broadbentnaturally he is entitled to an allowance for the additional woTk he has done-allowances to the office staff in lieu of overtime, the usual overtime charges, unemployment insurance, washing towels, &c. The New Settlers' League is also coYered in this vote.

Mr. ~IAHER (West Moreton) (11.23 a.m.) : I desire to thank the Premier for the details he gave.

~Ir. DECKER (Sandgate) (11.24 a.m.): I should like the Premier to let the Committee know the details of expenditure in connection with the Country Women's Association, and the expenses in connection with the various Premiers' Conferences in the South. We !mow that the Premier must attend such conferences, but we slJould haYe an idea of the amount included for that purpose in the expenditure. My desire is not to quibble at the expenditure.

We should also know what is the t'xpenditure and allowances for motor cars, advertising, and on the New Settlers' League. We all understand that provision must be made for these things, but the point is that hon. members are entiled to know the details of the expenditure. I should like to know what assistance both the Country 'vV omen's Association and New Settlers' League get, what the Premier's expenses amount to, the cost of motor-car allowances, and the cost of advertising.

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) (11.25 a.m.): The Premier's expenses in regard to motor cars are covered by a motion for a return passed by the House, and the paper will be tabled in due course.

As to the advertising, I have told hon. members that the figure is £376. I pointed out expenditure for the Country Women's Association was for the cartage of certain things approved by the Under Secretary and myself-for example, books or the cartage of goods to a hospital. TheTe is one item of £168.

Then there are contributions to the Boy Scouts' organisation. Those are all charges by the Railway Commissioner that have been


debited to the Chief Secretary's Department and not salaries. There are the following items: Bush Nurses' Association, £74; Bush Book Club, £184; Country Women's Association, £13; and the total is £1,249.

Vote (Premier and Chief SecretaryChief Office) agreed to.

AGENT-GENERAL FOR THE STATE.

The PRElUIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay), I move-

'' That £10,941 be granted for 'AgentGeneral for the State.' ''

lUr. NICKLIN (Murrumba) (11.27 a.m.): I take this opportunity to pay a tribute to the work of Queensland's Agent-General and his staff in London. We all realise that at present they are working under greater difficulties owing to war-time conditions, and the problem of handling the marketing of Queensland products has become more difficult. I hope that the staff did not suffer any casualties during the Tecent bombing raids on London.

The Premier: The place was smashed a 'l'ouple of times.

::\Ir. NICKLIN: I know there has been some damage, and I hope there were no casualties among the staff.

The Premier: There were no staff easnalties.

Mr. NICKLIN: I am glad to hear that.

The Premier: There is an increase of £849 over last year.

ltir. NICKLIN: I notice there is a slight increase-some £200-in salaries and £600 for incidentals.

The Premier: That is an increase owing to having to engage additional accommodntion.

Mr. NICKLIN: Some of that expenditure was made necessnry owing to damage to the building and the need for getting accommodn tion in plac.,e of it.

No doubt Mr. Pike is experiencing a ~ery difficult time in handling our vanous primary products, apart from the disagreeable experience of the bombing of London. vVe renlise that the whole of our marketing arrangements were thrown upsi(lp clown owing to the interference with shipping and things of that nature due to the war. Ne' ertheless, Mr. Pike has given efficient and Pxcellcnt service to the primary industries of this State. We all appreciate the expert advice he has furnished to the repTe~entatives of the Queensland primary producers.

Mr. Pike has presented an excellent and comprehensive report, and, as usual, it is always one of the first reports to be tabled. It is a report that is always read with great interest by hon. members.

IUr. PIE (Hamilton) (11.30 a.m.): I place on record my appreciation of the work clone hy our Agent-General in London. I have had two experiences of him, and he

helped me considerably in anything I had to do. He is available to a Queenslander at any time. vVhen one goes to his office one sees the name ''Queensland' ' standing out amongst the neighbouring signs, and feels that it is really a part of Queensland although in London.

The Agent-General can do much for us, particularly during the war and in the postwar reconstruction. Mr. Pike has a wonderful grasp of British industry. He knows virtually every worthwhile secondary industry in England. In my speech on the motion for the adoption of the Address in Reply, I suggested that the services of the Agent-General should be used more frequently. He can be of great use to us. He is able, for instance, to make inquiries as to any British industries that are likely to come to Australia after the war.

Mr. CONROY (Maranoa) (11.32 a.m.) : The Agent-General's report contains mucl:o of interest, including mention of the problems and difficulties experienced as a result of the war. Under the heading of '' Trarle and Commerce,'' Mr. Pike gi,·cs a brief review of marketing conditions, particularly in connection with the more important of Olli' ~o•.nmnclities, snch as wool, meat, sugar, butter, and cheese.

I was very interested in the remarks about wool. According to the Agent-General, there has been a remarkable development in the wool industry. As you are aware, Mr. Gair, no other country can produce merino wool of the same quality as Australia's, but, owing to shrinkage, this wool cannot be used in the manufacture of certain clothing, so that in the past coarse wool has had to be used for these garments. It would appear from the report that owing to the development of certain processes Australian merino wool will be used much more extensively than in the past. :Yir. Pike's report states-

'' One of the most remarkable developments affecting the uses of merino wool is the advance which has recently been made in the Yarious processes for the non-shrink treatment of woollen goor1s. The war has, to some extent, gi,·en an impetus to this development, ani!, by a decision of the British Army authorities and the Ministry of Supply, certain army underclothing has to be treated by one or other of these processes. The result is 'that ,shrinkage, which has hitherto caused so much trouble and waste, has now been controlled at a very small cost. The aclyantage from the Australian point of view is that whereas in the pnst certain underclothing was necessarily made up from coarse wool which was liable to a minimum shrinkage, the finer crossbreds and merinos can now be used after treatment by the non-shrink process. In addition, another new field has been opened up for the use o;f light-weight woollen goods in substitution for cotton and other materials which have hitherto been used.

"It is unfortunate, perhaps, that at present no great quantity of these nonshrink garments is being manufactured for


civilian requirements. The war services have first claim, and it will not be until the post-war period, therefore, that the fullest advantage will be secured to the Australian industry from this recent development.''

That statement is both interesting and important to the woolgrowers of Queensland, for it visualises the use of a greater quantity of our merino wool for purposes for which it could not be used previously because of shrinkage.

I entirely agree with what other hon. memb~rs have said about Mr. Pike. As AgentGeneral he has done excellent work f·or Queensland, not only in advertising our State, bnt in doing everything possible to promote Hs welfare and interests.

~Ir. EHWARllS (.:\anango) (11.36 a.m.): All Queenslnndcrs must realise that the .•\gent-General has always been a valuable offiPer. ~When one realises the enormous wealth tlwt is retnmccl to Queensland f1um the sale of our produets to Britain one rannot help appreeiating what 1\1r. Pike has done in the interests of this great State. Under the present abnornwl tonditions, with the disloc,ation of shipping, his task must be extremely difficult, hut the fart that he is there to take ach-antage of every opportunity that offers to further our interests must be of benefit. \Vhcn normal times rehnn he should he a valuable officer io us in that, being on the spot, he has all the necessary information at his fingertips concerning the sale of our products and the most favourahle timE' for placing certain p1 oi!ucts on the British market. I ]mow Hnt he has reporter] on these matters from time to time, anrl we must recognise that this valuable officE'r forms an important lillk in the chain thnt binds us to Great Britain.

1\' c all know the >vealth that is returned to us front the ~a1c of certain products one of which is wool. c\lthough Queensland' does not export great qnnntiti!:'s of whent to Great Britain, the fart that other States are rloing so successfully is of benefit to us in that those other Stntes are not such great c·ompetit•ors with us so far as other mor<' important products of Queensland are conce=ed.

We all know the importance of the dairying industry to Qneensland, the great help it has been in the development of the State and the amount of employment that it gives to our people. \Ve all realise that many areas of scrubland could not have been used for any other purpose and when we nc,te the wealth that is retun{ed to this State from the sale of our dairy products in Great Britain we must admit that the amount Yoted for the Agent-General's office is small in comparison with the benefit that we rec-eive through it.

I believe the office is a very valuable one and, looking at the matter from an Australian point of view, I feel sure that Mr. Pike, in crmjunction with the other Agents-General, is

doing the best that can he done in the interests of Australia. I appreciate very much what has been done in the past, and I feel sure that Mr. Pike's influence in Great Britain will he particularly valuable when we return to normal times.

lUr. BRAND (Isis) (11.41 a.m.): The office of Agent-General for the State of Queensland is generally recognised as highly important. When Sir Edward Macartney returned from London it was held hy many people in Queensland that the office shoulrl bf• held hy an outstanding public ma'n, a111l some thought that a strong business man should he appointed to the position. :\fr. Pike helcl office as Acting Agent-General for quite a long time, and it must he said of him not only that his appointment has been of at1vantage to the State, but that he has eowrecl hiniself with distinction. \Yith other hon. members of this C'ommittee I haye al>Yays been interested in the >York of onr Agent-General, pnrticularl~· his ncti•·ities in n wry large fielr1 ·on which the livelihood of mnny pPOI)lc of this State rlepends. The n1anne1' in which he has applied' himself to the mnny problems c-onfronting Queensland is an inr1icntion of the wry deep int0rest he has in our industrial life, as well as his iutimate knowledge of our primm·:· industries.

It has been agreerl for many YP~Hs thnt one of our principal industries needing cxpNt arhiee in London is the sugar inrlustry. :\Ir. Pike, as a r<Jpresentnti\·c ,of this Gm·crnment, has been able to associnte himsPlf with the sug'ar organisations of other coun1 rics, in my opinion, to the nrlvantage of our growers. Mneh of thc good that has result0rl to this industry has been due to his activitif''- Since the >Yn~ hegan the problems attaching to the imlustrv ha \·e multinlicrl and I think it is n 1ribute. to the acti\·itiC's of this branch of onr Government service that we hn•·e hecn ahl0 to hold many of the principles we hnYe e~ta blislwd. T hclie.-e that th0 benefits aec-ruing to our pri1nn ry industricR. p::nticn~ larly thc sugar industr:·, ns a result of the >York of the~ Agent-General, will be mnnifest when this 'var terminate'. T am pleaserl to lmow that 1\fr. Pike has heen able to obtain from the authorities in Great Britnin a release from th<' penalty rhuses associateci w;th t1w polarisation of sugnr entering Great Britain. Virtually no penalties n re now imposcrl.

The Secretary for Public Lands: He did that ns a result of representations from this (;overnmcnt.

3Ir. BRAND: I said so earlier. Mr. Pike mn<lo representations on behalf of Queensland, nnd was successful in bringing :::bout great relief to an industry that is perhaps the lm·gest agricultural industry in Anstralia. \Ve shonlrl pay him a tribute for his C'Xr·ellent work on behalf of Queenslan<l.

\Vhcn the wa.r is over it >Yill be necesscny to increase the activities of this office to deal with the many problems that >vili ~nise during post-war reconstruction, but I am sun> that the experience :\fr. Pike has gaincri, especially during the war peri.orl, will


<:minently :fit him to deal with them. I am very plea'sed with his report. It shows that he is alive t•o the interests of Queensland and the needs •Of Queensland industries, anti so we can approve of the vote with th'l full confidence that in Mr. Pike we have a very nble Agent-General in London.

The PRElUIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mac.lmy) (11.46 a.m.): I appreciate the re-marks that haYe been made concerning the Agent-General, and I think it would be an advantage to send him a report of the debate. He has done wonderful work for this State.

Honourable Members: Hear, hear!

The PREMIER: H will be a source of g-ratification to him to know that the Parliament of the State he represents appreciates his excellent service. Mr. Pike is a: very r·~pable man, nnd he has giYen splendid service to Queensland over a long period of years. Indeed, he is giving splendid service to Queensland now, not only in respect of trade hdween Great Britain and Queensland, but iu connection with the many other actiYities in which Queensland' and her citizens a're interested_ He is the friend of the soldier ou the other side of the world, and ithe office d the Agent-General in the Strand has come to be rcgan1et1 as a haven where they can receive propel' nttcntion, courtesy, anrl fTicnds!,ip.

Vote (c\gent-General fol' thP Stntc) :igl(~cd to.

CO-ORDJ)JATOR-GENERAL OF PUBLIC WORKS.

The PRE:.'\'HER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, :\lnckay): I move-

'' That £6,787 be granted for 'Co-ordina'tor-General of Public IV•orks.' ''

~Ir. DECKER (Sandgate) (11.48 a.m.) : 'This vote provideR for the following items under ''Contingencies''-

Appropriation for 1940-1H41.

£ Specin! works in

vestigations . . 1,400 Printing, station-

ery, &c.

postage, 450

Reqnire<l for 1941-194~.

£

500

1,000

I was wonclering if the figures had been wrongly transposed.

The PRK~HER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, :\fackay) ( 11.49 a.m.) : There has been no transposition of figures. 'l'he figures set out rl'prescnt the appropriation for 1940-1941, and t!Je estimated amount required for 1941-1942. The investigations last year were largely in rPlation t•o sub-artesian waters and the cost was ehargecl against the Chief Secreta'ry 's Deparhneut, but that will not occur again this year. When certain wor'k relating to a project, such as scout-boring, is completed, the cost bec·omes a charge against the work itself.

The second item includes the amount required for printing, for additional travelling expenses, and for pay-roll tax. Hon. n1embers will notice ''&c.'' after the second item which means that the amount required for the pay-roll tax is included in the £1,000.

Vote (Co-ordinator-General of Public Works) agreed t•o.

MUSEVM.

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) (11.50 a.m.): I move-

'' That £4,137 be granted for 'Museum.' ''

This vote represents an increase of £108 as compared with last year. This increase is due to salary increases £148, and an increase in contingencies of £50, the latter being attributable to the pay-roll tax.

Vote agreed to.

PARLJAME)JTAR¥ COl'XSEL AXD DRAFTSMAN.

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) (11.51 a.m.): I move-

" That £1,822 be granted for 'Parlia-mentary Counsel and Draftsman.' ''

This is an increase of £42 on last year's vote, represented by an increase in the salaries of the two officers consequent on the basic-wage increase.

~Ir. NICKLIN: (Murrumba) (11.52 a.m.) : ·we are all pleaser1 that our Parliamentary DraftRman has resumed duty. VIe are pleased to know that he has fully recovered his health, and we hope he will not haYe a recurrence of the illness that necessitated his absence for such a long time. He has very arduous duties, and no doubt that fact attributed to his illness. We h·nst that he will continue in good health and be able to do the work he has so ably done in the past.

Honourable lUembers: Hear, hear!

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) (11.59 a.m.): I am sure that Mr. Broadbent will appreciate the kindly remarks of the LeadeT of the Opposition. He is a thoroughly competent officer. I~ fact,, he is more than that; he is a very pamstakmg, devoted, and industrious officer as well. Therefore, he has become a very popular and valued servant of the State. I understand that :\Jr. Broadbent's health has been completely restored. It is pleasing to see him back at work again.

I also take this opportunity of saying how much the GoveTnment appreciate the work done by l\fT. Seymour dming the absence of Mr. Broadbent. Mr. Seymour had a great deal to do, and he discharged his duties willingly and nntiringly. He is, therefore, entitled to our appreciation.

Vote (Parliamentary Counsel and Draftsman) agreed to.


PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER.

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) ( 11.55 a. m.) : I move-

'' That £10,050 be granted for 'Public Service Commissioner.' ''

That is an increase of £1,464, which is due very largely to the increase in salary and pay-roll tax.

Vote agreed to.

PUBLIC LIBRARY OF QUEENSLAND.

The PRE~IIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) : I move-

'' That £3,281 be granted for 'Public Library of Queensland.' ''

.lir. LUCKINS (Maree) (11.56 a.m.): I wish to ask the Premier if he could supplement the vote in order to provide up-to-date sanitary cOJweniences at the library. After my election to Parliament, I went to the library and found that it had not been connedcd with the sewera'ge. I do not know whether that is an oversight; if it is I should like to see it remedied, because the public are entitled to up-to-date sanitary conveniences. The library is a place that visitors like to inspect, and it is only proper that it should have modern sanitary conveniences.

Another point I wish to make is that I think there is a little understaffing in the number of officers who keep the books in order. I am not complaining about it, but I hope the maHcr will be given some attention.

The PRI~MIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, :\Iackay) (11.57 a.m.): The matter will be looked into.

Vote (Public Library of Queensland) agreed to.

PUBLIC SERVICE SUPERANKUATION BOARD.

T1w PRE::UIEH (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, :\[ ackay) : I move-

'' That £2,492 be granted for 'Publie Service Superannuation Board.' ''

That is an increase of £114 on last year's vote, and it is for salaries.

Vote agreed to.

STATE REPORTING BUREAU.

The PRE~IIEit (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay): l move-

'' That £13,726 be granted for 'State Reporting Bureau.' ''

Vote agreed to.

STATE STORES BOARD.

The PRE~IIEit (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay): I move-

" That £17,844 be granted for 'State Stores Board.' ''

Vote agreed to.

MISCELLANEOUS SERVICES.

Tile PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) (11.59 a.m.): I move-

"That £29,722 be granted for '::'viis cellaneous Services.' ''

That is an increase of £1,849, which is due to increased salaries and the payment of the subsidy for an extra service to the Gulf ports amounting to £500, and an increase in the expenditure for the benefit of returnc<l soldiers to meet the additional charges arising out of the present war.

Mr. MAHER (West Moreton) (12 noon): Perhaps the Premier would furnish some information on the grant and subsidy to Standards Association of Australia .

The PREMIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) (12.1 p.m.): That body presCTibes standards for engineering and other construction work and is similar to the Standards Associations in Great Britain and America. 'l'he idea is to standardisefor example in metal, certain types of steel and cast iron; in joinery, standard doors and windows, &c.--and in that way reduce cr.pital expenditure. The Association really comprises engineers, who work out these standards and publish the results, so that our engineers, architects, and o:thers cooJcerncd get the bendi r.

Mr. Maher: Is there any evidence that they get results~

The PREMIER: Yes. For example, at one time architects gave free expression to their artistic souls in the plans they drew for every class of new building. Much of the work has been now standardised, ancl as a consequence time is saved. I•'or example, take public hospitals. In this climate use must be made of verandas, and so the Department of Health standardises the type of bed used in hospitals. It must be capable of being wheeled onto the veranda or about the 'vard without disturbing the• patient. This necessarily means a standard height of door. The tTansom must not be lower than the height of the bed or tlw patient may be distmbed. Similar remarks apply to -windows. In joinery work if you set up a machine to turn out 12 doors of the same size the average cost is compaTatively low, but if there is a variation of a couple of inches in the size of each two of the 12 the cost is comparatively high. The same applies to fabricated steel. There are standard members, and every engineer knows that n certain standard member can cm-rv a given stress at a given angle. This snve's him the trouble of having to work out these figures himself. The association oper:1tes in countless diffeTent ways.

Mr.lUacdonald: It has world recognition?

The PREliiER: Yes.

Mr. DECKER (Sandgate) (12.4 p.m.): Will the PTemier explain some of the benefits to returned soldiers undeT the item, '' Expenditure for the benefit of returned soldiers" f


For the past financial year the amount voted was £8,350, but that is being increased to £10,000 for the year 1941-42.

The PREllHER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay) (12.5 p.m.): The amount is bound to increase as the number of men in the forces increase.

Mr. Decker: How is the benefit givenparcels~

The PREMIER: It deals with parcels, gifts for soldiers, and all that kind of thing. A brochure has been issued by the Railway Department setting out >Yhat has been clone. I have not complete cle1ails in front of me at present, but as the number of soldiers increases the cost is bound to rise apart altogether from any inCTcase in ben~fits.

Mr. Dec,ker: I can understand that, but I do not think this refers to railway matters. If it does, then I assume it includes such things as parcels.

V otc (Miscellaneous Services) agreed to.

DEPARTMENT OF THE AUDITOR-GE:-;fERAL.

'I'l!e PRKll'IIER (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay): I mo,-e-

' That £20,441 be granted for 'AuditorGeneral.' ''

Vote agreed to.

DEP ART11:EN'l' OF PUBLIC LANDS.

CHIEF OFFICE.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. E. J. \\'alsh, Mirani): I move-

" That £70,165 be granted for 'Depart-ment of Public Lands-Chief Ollice.' ''

The incre:1sc of £355 in the vote is due to a net _increase in salaries, allowing for basic'"ag-e mere,1ses and reduced staff amounting to £225, and a net increase of d 30 for contingencies after allo1ving £1,650 for pay-roll tax.

}Il:. EH WARDS (Nanango) (12.8 p.m.): I thmk \Ye all reahso that the Department of Public Lands is one of the most important of our State departments.

When one considers the past position of the State, one must realise that the new 'Minister has come in to administer to this department in Tather good times, inasmuch as we lwve not only had good seasons recently, but also an enormous area of countr:v that was tied up for many years because of the prickly-pear pPst has come into production. I suppose I am justified in suggesting that many millions of acres of fertile lan_d have been wrested from the grip o~ the pn~kly-pear and from that point of new alo_ne 1t would seem that the Department ?f Pubhc Lands should have pTosperous times m future as compared with the conditions of land development that obtained in the past. All that is to the advantage of the department and the revenue of the State. I hope that every possible consideTation will be given to the need for bringing the land into

1941-w

development as soon as possible, because it has been idle for many years and most of it is very fertile indeed. 'Much money is required for the purpose, particularly for roads, and I feel that the department has a great responsibility in bringing that land into full pToduction. I have always thought that the Government might see their way clear to give what might be termed greater consideration to the earlier settler on much of this land. Capital in abundance is required h1 the early development of a country. In other States people are paying as high as £40 an acre for land that could be bought in Queensland for perhaps £6 or £7 an acre. We must look at these things broadly, and do cverytl1ing we can to bring about settlement.

I do not know if I shoultl be in order in discussing fOTestry matters--

The CHAIRlUAN: That would be in order.

Mr. EDW ARDS: For many years the Sub-Department of Forestry has been doing much valuable reforestation work. Recently I had the great pleasure of inspecting areas that have been replanted in the Yarraman and Blackbutt areas, ani! I suggest to any hon. member, whether he represents a country <·Onstitncncy or not, that he take any opportunity that offers of seeing the work that is being done in our State forests. -Whilst some have not made the hcad\vay we expected, we have to take into consi,lcration that from time to time the State has been subject to long, dry spells.

Although the small trees are liable to be affected by late or early frosts, I am pleased to be able to say that many of the forests arc a real picture to-day and although the annual expenditure on this work may appear to be heavy, we should not forget that the State will reap a tremendous advantage when the trees reach maturity.

Reforestation is a very profitable way in which to use our unemployed people, because from the very time that the seedlings are planted and begin to grow real capital is developing, nnd some clay the State will reap a tremendous advantage. It must be realised ihat as the years roll by and tl1e State dewlaps our population will increase and that there will be a much greater demand for timber. Xatumlly, it will become more scarce, and we ma:- 1Je faced with having to import some of it to meet our requirements. Of course, I realise that we may have to fncc the dangers that beset the State of Yictoria where milliors of pounds worth of timber have been destroyed by disastrous bushfircs. I know the department is spending fnirly large sums of money in precautionary measures against the outbreak of fire, and I agree that when fQrests are developed we should take every available means to avoid the occurrence here of the tragic experience of Victoria.

Before I resume my seat I want to emphasise that the Department of Public Lands is a veTy important one and that its


efforts to help the settler, especially in the early stages of his WDTk, must have a areat bearing upon his success or failure. "' We should be big enough to view the matter broadly and to realise that the failure of a settler does not mean only the failure of the man himself but al,o the failure of part of the production of the State. Therefore the department has a very important part to play in our development. I know that there arc many things that can be done that han' not been done up to the present, but I am confident that improved measures will he taken as time goes on. No lanil should be sl;ut _ou_t of production if it is possible to bnng 1t mto use. Every possible encouragement shoulcl be held out to people to develop the. land, particularly in the early sbges of then settlement becnuse that is of vital interest to the Stnte.

:l\Ir. TU~ODORE (Herbert) (12.19 p.m.): I agree w1th the hon. member for Nanango that t11e Dep::ntment of Public I"ands is a wry important one and that the Minister h~s a ve~y gre~t. resp~nsihility, but judging lnm on Ins admunstrnhon I am sntisfied that the ::<.finister realises it.

It is of the utmost im·portance that all that (311 he done should he done to help our settlers, pn n:cula;rlv new settlers. The position of a TW!ll talnng up land for the first time is a wr~' c1i!lirnlt one indeed. The other day while trH\'Clling to North Qneensland, I met a mnn. who, with his wife and five ehilclren, '"as gomg to settle on a new block of lnnd he had .iust selected. He had sufficient money to lmilr1 a sherl on the lalll1, and he and his wife were quite satisfied to live in it with their. <·hildren until they were able to replace rt .. :nth. a better bnil<ling. One of his first rhffl('ll;bcs was his inability to get corrugated iron. At the present time many farmers are experi~nring difl]culty in ohtainin_g· supplies o,f tlns and of barbed and plain wire. } arm,ers have to contencl with many problems thut rhose who haYe not had experience with the lantl or have liwd in the cities do not unclnst~.m1.

Opposition l'dembers: Hear, hear!

ltir~ THE OD ORE: I have had a long expcnence on the land. I began worl{ on the land in Queensland 25 or 26 years ago, and I ha>·e passed through all the vicissitudes that m,any farmers arc passing through to-day. TJJJR. Gon'rnment hnYe done much more than prevwus Governments to mako the lifC' of new settlus ''lSiC'r, but these men nnrl women han: rliLlculties and problems that seem beyontl the power of a Government to avert or soh-c. I know of farmers in my district ll'ho grow bananas and supply them at 6s. a ease of 2;). dozen to local shopkeepers, who, in turn, reta1l them at ls. 6d. a dozen. There is something radically 1\TOUO' with our system· of distribution, when it all;ws that to occur. I realise that this is a difficult matter to control.

Mr. Macdona!d: Do you offer any solution~

Mr. THEODORE: I was a member of a deputation that waited on the late Hon. T.

.T. Ryan shortly after he becnme Premier of this State to ask that something be done to improve the position of banana-growers at that time. The gro\Yers suggested that the Government should evolve a scheme whereby people in the far-,vostern and other districts could obtain fruit at a reasonable price, but would, in tmn, give the growers a fair return.

The Secretary for Public Lands: The solution is to be found in organisation by the growers.

lUr. TUEODORE: Tl1at is one of many difficult problems with which I, in common with other growers of the time, was confronted. I was n memb~r of the Palnl'woodsDudcrim Banana-Growers' Associntion, of whic·h the father of the present Leader of the Opposition was n Yery active member. I know that many problems are difficult for a Government to solve, and much depends on the farmers themselves. Priee is only one of those problems. I have sent bananas to Melbourne, and received a nil return. ~nd I am not the only one who hns had that experience. I merely refer to that to illnstrate how the farmer ''g-ets it in the neck'' every time. I am sure that this Government will do everything thev cnn to remove the difriculties con· fronting the farmers.

There are manv other problems besiclcs those of mnrkcting. ~When I was in my electorate the other day a deputation waited on me and told me of some of their difficulties. These settlers are required bv the department to fall a certain area of scrub, and they fall it according]}'. Anyone who knows anything about scrub knows that one gets the bPst burn five or six 'reeks after fnlling. They have hacl nu exceptionally dry scnson in the North, and the gTa ss is so dry that a fire would spread very rapidly. 'rhese farmers are afraid to burn their scrub, because they fear that the fires will spread and other properties will be burnt out. That hnppened last year, and many farm·ers, not having enough money to buy seed to regrass their pTopertics, went in scanh of employment to earn some money.

I have taken the matter up with the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock. Anyone who has not firsthand knowledge of the problems confronting the man on the land does not Tealise the many difficulties they hnYe to face, but it is nevertheless a fact that there are numbers of men who wish to go on the land and establish homes for themselves and their families. I think every hon. nl'embcr realises that such men should receive every encourage· ment. Thcs~ men and their womenfolk are game enough to face the diflicultirs of life on the land, and they deserve every encOluagemcnt Y\'C can give thcn1.

I think it would be of great advantage to farmers generally if the tonns of their loans were extended. I realise that it is a qucotion of money, but all the same, the sug· gestion is deserving of sincere consideration. If a man is put on the land with a reasonable ehnnce of success he is an asset to the country. There is usually no restriction of families by people who settle on the land. My observations lead me to think that the largest families

Supply. [7 OCTOBER.) Supply. 6H

an' rc:u-c<l on the land. I do not say there arl' net big f:,milies in other places, but the opc,n air, ,&•:cod food, and healthy surroundings makl' it e::sier for the farmers to rear families tbn 1 "epic who live in flats, under conditions that arc objectionable-objectionable to me, anyway.

I am sure that everything that can be done to help settlement and gradually impro\'e the :·onditions on the land will receiYc consideration by the Govcrmucnt. The :Minister knows as well as anybody the :1ifficulties that confront farmers, and ,,ill, I am sure, give them sympathetic consideratioll. The question is mainly one of finance, lmt that can be owreome, and I am quite confident ,,iJ] be overcome in clue course as things settle down after the war.

A few days ago I h:Hl the honour to travel ov-er the Kirrama Range for the purpose of unveiling tablets erected to the memory of the late Hon. Percy Pease, the pioneer Mr. Brice Henry, and of a surHyor who worked on the job. I obsen-crl the progress made since I hacl last visited the locality a few months previously. 'l'he Sub-Department of Forestry is doing a wonderful work. Great progress has been made, particularly within the past few months. Of course, the 'veather has been favourable. Timber badly needed for war and other senices will be made available very shortly when the big stand of kauri pine will bo reached. That is a 'vondcrfnl asset, not only to Queensland but to the nation. That timber has enabled these wondeTful roads to be built, but it is responsible for more than that. It has enabled access to be giv-en to land that othenvisc would not have been nvailablc. It has enabled good solicl roacls to be put dmn1 in very difficult co:mb-y. GnHlually there will be greater settlement there. Speaking not only of the Herbert eleetoTate but of North Queensland as a whole, l remind hon. members that there are many localities in which there aTe large areas of v-aluable timber, and after the timber has been cut the land "-ill be available for settlement. It is some of the finest laml in Australia.

-we hav-e now realised how necessary it is to make lll'eparations foT the alterecl conditions that will follow the 'mr. I refer to irrigation in particular. A few weeks ago I attended a lecture dealing with thr' waterways of Qneensland. 'rhe leeturcr said that there are i!cfinite indications that the Yast water snpplies in Central Queensland ancl othE'r parts of the State are gradually drying up.

lUr. Spa:rkes: Owing to artesian bores.

Mr. THEODORE: Yes. We must be longsighted and take action to meet that condition. Certainly the misfortune may not happen in our generation, but we must prepare for future generations and plan to meet the conditions to Yvhich I refer, which will gradually become worse.

One of the seTious problems immediately confronting the North pm·ticularly is the closing of the sugar-mills earlier this year than e,-er before. That is a seTious problem.

It is unfo1tunate thut altl:ough a number of men m·e rerjuircd for ,ynr snyice, the demand is chiPfly for skilled men, and a tremendous number of unsl,illed men will be thrown out of employment b:y these mills within the next month or six "-eeks. ::\Iany are o,·er military age, and the residents of the North are greatly concerned about the matter. I understand that provision is going to be JNade shortly to absorb some of the skilled men in the utilisation of mill machinery for the manufacture of war materials. l\rr. Kemp has given the matter reasonable consic1eration, and we expect something to be done in this direction shortly.

lUr. Brand: They are doi!lg it now.

Mr. THEODORE: They have not been cloing it in the North so far. 'l'he point is, however, that we should give serious consideration to the position of all the unskilled men who will be thrown out of employment. ::\lost of them are married men with families. The business people in the towns <Jepend largely upon the support they receive from these ·people Yvhile they are in employment. If they aTe to be unemployed for any long period, business people in the townships must suffer. I sincerely hope that we sh:~ll be able to do something to >Tlle1·e the position l1JI

there.

)Ir. BARNES (Bundaberg) (12.39 p.m.): J\Iuch has been saiL! aboLlt post-war reconstruction, and I suppose there is no better avenue for post-war reconstruction than the land. Ev-ery1hin::; <·om<·> either directly or indirectly from the land.

I notice that the amount provided for reforestation here is £51,000. According to world statistics. it is estimated that if yve continue replm-lting timber at the present rate the world wfll be without commercial timbers in 100 years. We, as a Parliament, should legislate not only for to-day, but for 500 or 1,000 years ahead, ancl. a.s a Labour Government are now in power 1n the Federal Parliament, the main plank of whose platform is national credit, I cannot see any reason why this State <·annot expend h.unrhe:ls of thousands of prm nds on refnrc"tat10n.

The Secretary for Public Land~;: You ,·,-onld be well a<h-i,ed to read the Estimates throng h.

1\Ir. BARNES: No matter what the figmc might be, T s~ ill Sfly that 'vo could spend fl·om 5 to J 0 times as much as we h:we been spending on rdorestation, particulitrlv in view of tlw Jlossiblc shorta1:--e of some co11~merci8l timber ·in the nea'r future. I recommend to the Secretary for Public Lands that he get. hold of some of this national credit for the purpose of financing our primary industries.

As long as we have had a Government in this country we have been trying to get rid of our noxious weeds. The introduction of the cactoblastis for the eradication of pricklypear was a wonderful thing for this country, and we should be able to get rid of all other noxious weeds. The only reason why these weeds are allowed to grow is that we have

61:? Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

not got the money to destroy them. Take the Scotch thistle. We all know that if we could destroy this plant before it seeds, we should do much to eliminate it from our paddocks. I know that this would involve a tremendous sum of money-the money question again. 'l'he Labour Government in the I'edcral sphere advocate national credit! ha1'e here a copy of the ''Daily Mirror'' that says it is a plank of their platformawl I recommeni! that the Queenslnnd Government ask the Fedeml Government for a supply of credit so that we may be able to get rid of tlle weeds in this State. We have only made a trifling effort to stem the gro1vth of weeds in Queensland, and with the exception of the prirldy-penr pcrlmps we have not mnde much l,oct(hrny, \Vo all know what noxious 1rreds hnvc meant to the dairying industry. Weed taints in our butter have caused us much trouble. \Vhere we have one inspector now we could perhaps have 100. The cost of one inspector is borne to-da;' by our income-t8x pnyments, but the cost of lOO could bA finnnccd through the Commonwealth B~nk hy means of national credit. If we 11-01'<' able to utilise national credit in the destruction of \veeds in fiye venrs' time tllere 1vonld lH' no such thing "as a weed, provicled \Ye spent sufficient money in getting rid of weed seeds. I should like the Ministei· in chDrg·e of this department to get in touch with the l<'edernl Government with a view to getting support in this undertaking. The 1mtter industry has been seriously affected by the supply of second-gTnde cream due to \\'ecc1 fiai'Ours. If the farmer knew something about the weeds growing in his paddocks he would get rid of them. Scientific research is only in its infancy and the farmer 1rnlks past a weed and does not attempt to pull it out because ho does not know it is ndxious.

3'Ir. Sparkes: There are not many growing in our paddocks to-day.

~Ir. BARNES: They will return with good seasons. The fanner could do much in the way of eradicating noxious weeds from his country.

If we arc content to pull up only a few weeds here am1 a few there we shall hnve these pests for all time. In other ~~-ords, \Ye are wa ,ting our money as we have wasted much of it in the past except in the destruction of the prickly-p<'~lr.

In New Zealand a commercial concern is snpposed to be making a fortune out of forestry operations. At any rate, it is paying dividends, whether out of capital I do not know. If a private conecrn can do that in K e1v Zealand we can do more in Queensland because our initial cost would be nothing. All that we should have to do would be to get national credit from the Commonwealth Bank in accordance with the Labour Party's platform and thus we should be able to spend 10 times as much on this work as is spent in New Zealand under the orthodox system C\f finance.

The small sawmills in this State are hamstringed because legislation was passed to force the small miller to buy timber that he

could not get on the open market from the big miller.

The Secretary for Public Lands: There is no such legislation.

ll'Ir. BARNES: There are mills in my district that cannot get timber except from the bigger mills.

The Secretary for Public Lands: You quote the legislation.

JUr. BARNES: I am not able to do it now but I shall ask the Minister some questions about it later on. These mills have complained bitterly that they cannot get the timber except through Hancock and Gore and other big timber firms. I hope that their complaint is ill-founded, but that is what I have been told.

We have a considerable are'! of cane land in this State, but, unfortunately, only half of it has been brought under production for the reason that we are over-producing sugar. The sugar that is produced enjoys a subsidised price in accordance with the system of orthodox finance.

The Secretary for Public Lands: That: is no differ;ent from a tariff on secondary industries.

Thir. BAR.NES: It is a subsidy in accordance \Yith orthodox finance methods. The consumer has to pay 4d. a lb. whereas the true price is, say, 2d. or 2-~d. a lb. I go so far as to say that the other half of the cane land, which is not now brought into production, should be used by utilising the nation's credit in debt- and interest-free money. Let us bring the whole of the land into production. vVe can produce more sugar and snbsidise the price in a different way from that ruling to-day and so sell the sugar on the European market at, say, ld. a lb. and snbsidiso it from national credit to the extent of 3d. a lb. On the other hand, we could produce the full quantity of sugar capable of production from the entire lnnds, use it for the manufacture of p01Yer alcohol, and again subsidise the ventmc out of national credit issued bv the central bnnk. We have the most up-to-date research department associated v:ith the sugar industry.

~Ir. Collins: Where would you sell the sugar~

Mr. BARNES: In any country in the world, because price will create the market. I would sell it in China with the aid of national credit, because with national credit there is no such thing as financial cost; the only cost is the cost of the labour. If we produced sngar at 4d. a lb .. we coulc~ sell it in America at ld. a lb. w1th the md of national credit and buy back from America the things we need that cnn be produced more economically in that country than in Australia. We could use all our sugar land in the nrocluction of sugar, and if necessary use par,t of the production in manufacturing po\YC!' alcoho~. Th~ same. argument app~ies to all our pnmary mdustnes. The dauymg industrv could he improved, nnd new lands tilled and irrigated with the aid of national


eredit through the Commonwealth Bank. If our national credit was properly handleil it could be used to help all our primary industries without cost to the farmer. By this means twice as much butter could be pro{iucerl r:s 1s produced to-day. Denmark. pro rata, 1n·oduces much more butter than Austral in.

2'\fr. Colli:ns: There is a definite labour f.Yt to be ta],en into consideration.

}Ir. R\RNES: That is so, but production under national credit definitely inclu<les the <-ost of production, transp01·t, and nuuketing. I'or instance, with the assistance of national n<·<lit through the Commonwealth Bank £ l 0,000,000 worth of butter or sugnr could },e produced. Then if we required £2,000,000 worth of motor cm·s from the United States Df America we could send that £10,000,000 ,,·orth of sugar to America as payment.

}lr. Jesson: If they do not want sugar, what then~

!Ir. BARNES: If the price is right you <·:m sell it under a s~·stem of national credit, p1'operly handled by the Commonwealth Bank

])Ir. ,Je,son: All sugar-growers there will then go broke.

lUr. UARNES: I also said that it would not be necessary to export our sugnr at all for we could use our surplus prodndion in the manufacture of power alcohol.

JUr. Power: We are not exporting much sugar now.

lUr. BARNES: That is so, taking into consideration the amount of sugar produced.

])Jr. Collins: Your argument applies to nearly eYery country's production.

])lr. BAI~NES: That is so, but it equalises itself in the end. There are some products 'n' cannot produce at the price equiyalent in other countries. Take oil .fuel. I understand that on the Near East oilfields it costs ld. a 100 gallons to pro(1ucc oil fuel. If that is so, why are we worrying about prochcing oil from shale? If, for instance, J:,),oHr c·osts in oil production in n recognised oil-prodneing country Dre based on an hour's lahonr aml it costs us 10 hours' ];; bour to produce a similar qnantit:\' tl1en its production here "'ould be uneconomic. \\' c should use oil pr0l1uccd from shale ouly dming war-time, when imports are restricted.

JUr. Collins: Would it not be preferable to employ our wOTkers producing oil from shale mther than have them unemployed~

!Ir. BARNES: Under a scheme of n:1tionnl credit there would be no need for unemployment. It would be necessary to absorb our unemployed labour by the use of national credit, as Germany and .T apnn have done. Japan under that system captured many markets in the world previously supplied by British manufacturers. Gennany unrler a scheme of national credit perrnitterl Hitler to organise the system that has cleaned up the whole of Europe when he discarded Dr. ~rhacht.

lUr. Jesson: I think you are all bungled up.

Mr. BARNES: I am not. If Germany can build a motor car for £50 then we ought to be able to build a similar car for that price. If the dagoes in Italy can make cars chl'aply then we too should be able to do so.

Mr. Power: You want to make matchboxes, not cars.

Mr. BARNES: The hon. member does not understand what that means. We, as Australians, must renlise the position. We talk about British justice instead of Australian justice, because we have an inferiority complex and because that outlook has been born and bred in us. Therefore, we haYe not been allo\Yeil to think for ourselyes.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! I remind the hon. member that we are discussing the vote for the Chief Office, Department of Public Lands.

lUr. BARNES: I will save the few minutes at my disposal for nnother time.

Mr. CLAYTON (Wide Bay) (12.55 p.m.): I think the Minister who has been appointed to the position of Secretary for Public Lands is doing a good job.

Government :::llembers: Hear, hear!

JUr. CLAYTON: He has some very excellent officers who are helping him in connection with land settlement in this State. I am hopeful that funds will be made avail· able to contim1e the excellent work that is being done in reforestation. We look to the future o{ our timber supplies. \Ve have splendid hardwood forests in Yarious parts of this State, especially in proximity to M aryborough, and I think eYery hon. member will agree that at J\faryborough we have two of the most effident mills to be found in the Commonwealth, but the question is where supplies for those mills will come from in the future. It is good policy to employ as many men as possible in reforestation work. We haYe many excellent areas producing hardwootl, and from time to time I haYe impressed on the mn1rrs of them that instead of putting' it through the saws in a few years when it was suitable for milling they should conserve it till a later date, and the hardwood that was growing while they slept would b,·ing in sufficient to pay their rate9 a nil rent. I am hopeful that the Minister will encourage the conservation of timber on private land to the same extent as he encourages its consena tion on Crown land, so that an a ss et to the owner and the State will be crenterl.

\Ye haYe l8rge areas of timber in various parts of the State, and it is unfortunate that very small lo,gs are being brought into the railway for transport to the mills. I "am opposed to the cutting down o~ a scrub . on a face,'' meaning by that takmg everyth~ng as it stands. \Ve have a natural regeneratwn of excellent hoop pine and bunya pine1 a:r:d I trust the ::\iinister will see that sometlnng IS

done to consen-e the timber till it is mature.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! For the guidance of hon. members I desire to inform the


Committee that I propose to allow full discussion on the whole of the mmifications of each department so far as the Consolidated Revenue Account is concerned on the Chief Office vote, and to confine discussion on the other votes strictly to the operations of the sub-department or section concerned. Y otea included in the '!'rust and Special Funds or Loan Fund Estimates cannot be discussed on revenue Estimates.

Mr. CLAYTON: I am sure that your ruling will be appreciated by hon. members on both sides. This moming we were given to understand that we could only discnss the particular Yote before the Committee. You haYe now ruled that the prrwtice that has been followed for some time J'f!St will be obserYed, and I nm e~1rc your rnling will be appreciated.

The cutting of timber on the face is an extravagant methotl, all(1 I should like the l\Iinistcr to show me '~'here I am wrong in making that statement. T see m:my logs being brought into mih,-ay sidings which I am sure would have grmYn into timber of greater Yalue to the State if they had l1een allmYed to remain in the scrub. I hope the Minister will giYe us some information as to the action that is being taken.

As to the possil1i!ity of settling retm·ner1 men on the land in the future, I would point out that thcTe are timber areas on which such men could be placed. I have in mind, particularly, one on ,,-hich the timber lws been cut out, the lHangur srruh. It is not large, but probably 12 s?ttlPrs could be placed on it. It is adjacent to good agricultural land, and there is some iallll of the same class in it. At present it is merely a menace to the settlers in the l\Imgon and Goomeri di~tricts ail it is a breeding gTound for marsupial pests, and the fnrmcrs find it costly to enclose i heir area with wire-netting. I hope the Minister will allo\Y that area to be cut up for soldier settlement in preference to any other class of settlement. Many post-war problems will have to be solwrl, lmt I trnst the Government will benefit from tlw failures of the Government "1\·ho were in rmwr when the young men returned from the last Grc:1t War. I hope that they will show good judgment, that the settlement of returned soldiers on such areas as those at Bcerburrum, Elimbah, and others, "·here the holdings in any cnse were very small, is a thing of the past, and that the Government will make proYision to have good agricultural Ianc1s made available nnd cut up i11to areas !urge enough to enable the selector to makP a living.

I trust that the :\[inister and his officers will look into this matter thoroughly and see tl1at everything possible is done for those of our young men who may desire to take up land upon their return from this war.

I know that the Sub-Department of Forestry has been spending money in the past year on the eradication of noxious weeds, and it is only right that that should be done. It is a serious matter to the settler down the creek or down the river from a Government forest reserve if the seeds of noxious weeds

are carried to his land from that forest during floods. The department should gi,-e serious consideration to the eradication of these ''eeds. I know that the sub-department has been moYing in this dirPction in eo-operation with the local authorities, but, unfortunately, the time taken in negotiations was so long that such weeds as noogoora ancl bathurst burr went to seed last year, nnd it would have been futile to proceell further \Yith the '\'Ork. I am hoping that the l\Iinistrr will go into this matter earlier this vcnr because \re have learnt that where he has taken action early good results have ace-rued.

The Sub-Department of Porestry is contributing a great deal of revenue to the Treasurer from the sale of timber, and hns hee11 doing so for many years. I hope that in the interests of our timber industry this year more of the revenue from the sa le of our timbers will be used for reforestation purposes. Something must be done if we arc going to provide timber for fntme generations.

I repeat that we should encourage and rwn instruct tl1e owners of freehold land to take steps to conserve our more mature timbers, most of which are hardwood. \\' e should urge upon the settler the wisdom of heeding the advice that is offered him from time to time to leave standing in his p:vldocks those sticks that will be fit for milling wit-hin a short time. I know from personal experience that when I have clenrecl a paddock and allowed the best timbers there-ironbark and spotted gum-to remain, they hnve, 'Yithin a very short time, returned more than enough to pay the rates on that land.

I think that if the Sub-Department of Forestry sent out to owners of timher land a circular or information in some other form as to the Yalue of such trees they "-ould he encouraged to consene them. This would he doing something in the interests of the men themselves as well ns the State.

I am sure that the Minister will gi,·e CH'l'Y

consideration to matters that nre placed Lcfc;re him, as I know he is taking a very keen interest in the work of this department.

IUr. ~IACDONALD (Stanley) (2.26 p.m.): The hon. member for Wide Bay has touched upon a subjeet of very great interest to landowners. I appreciate the fact that but little can be done to era die ate pests or noxious 1Ycec1s on reserves of any magnitude, hut there are several of the smaller forest reserves that have become a source of trouble to the owners of adjoining freehold property. In some of them most of the hardwood timber has been destroyed by fire, and owing to the young growth that has sprung up the country hns become a breeding place for vermin. I am in the unhappy position of haYing one of these reserYes ailjacent to my property, and I am experiencing great trouble from the invasions of marsupials and other pests. It is impossible to do anything because the cost of fencing them out would be prohibitiye and the land concerned is of little or no Yaluo


tc, the Sbte or suh-clepartmcnt. T 'Yish to draw the attention of the Minister to this state of nfrairs, bnt for the life of me I cannot sec what the :\Iinistcr can clo about the m a ttt'l', It htts me puzzled. 'l'he lmul in these small reserves is of no commucial .-alnc to any person who would take it up, but to the O'Yner of the contiguous land they arc a grave liability as they ha'.·c I m omc YC'l'itnblc sanchwrics for mnrsup'nls and other pests.

should like to congratulate the :\Iinister fpr t h•• policy adopted -by the clepartment so l'ar as ·western selections are concerned in rr:tiYing the rental conditions on properties t !tc o'Yncrs of which ha\·e enlisted.

The Secretary for Public Lands: It is The GoYernment 's policy.

lUr. 3IACDONALD: It has been administered sympathetically and on behalf of relatives I take this opportunity of expressing my appreciation of the far-sighted policy adopted by the Go.-ernment.

The Government are also cle 0-erviug of nerlit for the policy they are pmsuing in eunnedion 'l"ith land resumptions. l unrlnstand that many are now falling due, hut that nothing is going to be clone until after the w:.n. That is a very wise moYe.

I suppose the Minister will remember th-at 12 months ago I urgerl him to see that if any stream was weirecl it was made incumbent upon the constructing autlwrity to make provision for a fish ladder. l have no doubt that the :\finister is quite tire'! of having this matter co11tinually brought under his notice by me, but I think it is of national ituportance. Last year he said he could provide the ladcl.ers, but conlcl. not pro,·ide the legs to enable the fish to climb the ladders. (Laughter.)

So far as I know nothing has been done, :Jnd in answer to a question that I directed to the 'rreasurer in this Chamber the other clay, he said that no fish ladder would be constructed at the Somerset Dam because the eost would be too great. I am afraid that his was a rather evasive reply to my question, hrc-nusc it c-nn be done, antl if the hon. geutlcJnan only renlisccl how lar"clV it hulks in the hori/.Oll of th·' resic1ents"' of that area he would npprccinte the fact thnt nn expcnditme M £:l,OOO to £4,000 on such a la<lrler would he a mere bagatelle.

I should like to congra tu late the Su !>Department of Forestry upon the excellent work that it has done in the Beenvah and Glass House Mountain areas. It is quite easy to grow hoop and bunya pine on good ;;ernb country, but seldom have attempts been made to g1·ow and harvest commercial timber on wa1lum country. I commend the Minister upon the steps that he has taken in this direction, aml I trust that he ''"ill always bear in mind the absolute necessity of throwing no bar in the way of progress in the clevelopment of fish in the various streams.

Mr. BRAND (Isis) (2.32 p.m.): At this stage we arc justified in expecting a very important announcement by the new Secretary for Public Lands on land policy generally.

We ha.-e had Labour's land policy for a number of years, and we are wondering \Yhether the new Minister is going to introduce any changes into that policy. I do not desire for one moment to raise the very Ycxed question of perpetual leasehold and freehold tenure, but I should like to mention that it is strange that the Estimates for the department should be brought forward for consideration when lhought stalks almost every area in the State, and that for several years past the E·_-timates of this dcpm·tment hnve been considered in like circumstances. 17\f e have the cry from men in rural areas for relief from a provident Government, and we have had the expression of opinion from all political parties, inc·luding the Labour Party, that water conserYation arHl irrigation are two very impor·t:mt bttors in prcYcnting the recnncnce of dis"stl'ous clroughts. I have been \Yondering \YhLther \\'E' are to have a bolt! policy ex].lOUH•kcl by the new Minister, and whether he is going to inform us that the Government inte11<l to proceed with \Yatcr conservation in t"!lis Shte. It is true tlmt through the benefice11t help of the Federal Go-vernment-that is, the recently defeated national Government-the State Government have created some machinery for the irrigation of cotton areas. ·

The Secretary for Public Lands: You have no grounds for making that statement.

JUr. BRAND: My word, we have consicl.erable grounds for the statement that industries haYe been helped from time to time by the Commonwealth Go.-ernment. The Commonwealth Go.-ernment have extended help to the rural areas of Queensland.

The Secretary for Public Lands: Do you say that the Commonwealth Go,·ernment are finding the money for the cotton policy in Queensland~

3Ir. BRAND: I say that the Commonwealth GoYernment has indicated that they aTe willing to help the State Government in carrying out water-conseTvation schemes for the dewlopment of the cotton industry.

The Secretary for Public Lands: I know nothing of it.

lUr. BRAND: The hon. gentleman knows nothing of it! \Ve have not yet propoull(Jed a large scheme of wateT conservation for the purpose of irrigating the agricultnral an•as of the State.

Wo do Tecall that some years ago the Dawson River irrigation proposal became one of the babies of the Labour Government of the day. "UndCT that scheme a huge area of water was to be impounded, and an equally huge irri za tion se he me em baTkec1 on. We hear nothing to-clay of any project from the present Government that would indicate that they were at least attempting to do something to consel'Ye water in rural areas. A goocl deal of attention has been given to water projects for cities and towns; water has been impounded in a number of areas for that purpose. The Stanley RiYer Dam is one such undertaking-. The hon. member for Stanley has reminded us repeatedly that that work


will impound a very satisfactory quantity of water to provide for the future requirements of the people of Brisbane and Ipswich. Why is it that the Government (·annot propose a scheme or schemes to impound waters throughout Queensland that will enable the agriculturist to go in for well-de~igned irrigation schemes? I han• hearrl speeches in this Parliament of a scheme to water the »·hole of our Western pastoral arcas. That was to be accomplished by diverting the ,_-ateTS of certain streams in districts posses-sing an abundant rainfall. When are we, as a Parliament, going to get down to business and enable such work to be nndertaken? \Ve have a Sub-Department. of Irrigation and \Vater Supply, attached to which arB some very excellent and competent officers; yet in not one instance are their services being utilised to inipound watct· that wlll enable those engaged in tilling the land to be independent of the recnnin<;" droughts that are so devastating to our rmal life.

Tlle Secretary for Labour and Industry: Surely you do not say that in all sincerity~

lUr. BRAND: I do say so.

The Secretary for Labour and Industry: We are doing some work in that direction.

Mr. BRAND: I have failed to see it, nnr1 so have the people. I have indicated that we have been doing something to provide water supplies for our cities and towns.

Tl!e Secretary for JJabour and Industry: You are not atte11<ling to your job if you do not ];now what the Goyernment are doing.

lUr, BRAN]): We are not attempting to harness streams in our ngriculhHal areas. The Minister who interjects will have an opportunit:,· of informing this Committ<:'e in just what areas watcr is being impounded for agricultural schemes.

Tile Secretary for Labour and Industry: I have already told Parliament, and my statement is in '' Hansard '' for you to read.

lUr. BRAND: The Minister can tell this Committee again.

'fl1e Secretary for La !Jour and Industry: There is no need for me to do so; vou are not attending to your job if you ·do not know.

Mr. BRAND: We are not undertaking any water-conservation schemes that will justify llS in saying- that we arc endeavouring to overcome the difficnltics facin'.(' the man on the land during a rlry season such as at the present. UnJeos the weather breaks very soon, we shall ltave another appeal from the agriculturists and dairymen asking the Government for relief. It is pitiable that year after year these appeals for help should be made to the Government, when it is within our power to develop schemes that will enable those people to meet such seasons. We, in this State, have greater opportunities in that respect than other States; yet we know that in other States are to be found large water· conservation and irrigation schemes that have enabled vast areas to be brought under successful settlement and provide people with

g-ood JiYing conditions, and at the same time made them, in a l:ug·e measure, independent of the dentstation wrought by the droughts that arB common to this continent.

There arc many areas in Queensland that would be suitable for carrying out such a policy. Some day this great national task will have to be faced. Whv not face it to-day} I do not know of n'ity lwtter m1y money could be spent for the dcvelopn."ent of this country than in the conservation of onr water supplies. During good seasons the waters nm to waste instead of l•eing conserved for the benefit of the pBople.

I hope we shall have a definite pronounce· mont of policy to the effect that we are going to depart from the old system of leaving things as they are, and carry out a policy that will enable us to say to thB people who are undertaking to develop this country, "\Ve will provide you with water so that irrigation projects can be made part of the system of development in Queensland.''

I believe that the department is going to do something to develop those areas in the mid-West that are covered with brigalow scrubs, and thereby bring about closer settlement. I recognise that certain experiments have to be carried out, but I hope-I repeat what I said on the last occasion that these Estimates were before the Committee-that the :!'11inistcr will sec the wisdom of appointing a commit,tcc of men PXp<:'rienced in that <:lass of country who will be able to adyise as to what a living area is. When travelling through the areas, one gBts various idf" ~ from men on the land as to what that shonlJ. be. Some sav that it is smaller than the existing holdi{igs. I beliBve that competent advice could be obtained from practical men to enable ns to determine what the living area should be. It must be sufficient to enable a man to make a home and earn sufficient from his labours on that land to enallk him to bring up a family.

We should adopt the suggestions of tlHl hon. member for Wide Bay in regard to our forestry reserves. If that poliey \\'as carried out, much of the money that is being taken from them to-day would be spent in reforestation projects. Our State forests hnY~ produced much wealth for Queensland; they lmve been a good milch cow for the Consolidated Revenue Fund, and the least we should do is to spend greater sums of money on reforestation. If we do that we shall ensure a supply of excellent softwoods and hardwoods-woods that have no equal in any other country in the world-for use by this State in the future. I hope the Minister will ~<Pep before him, during his period of office, the great value of our woods, both soft a nu lwn1, not only for building but also for cabinet purposes, so that Queensland will always be on top in the southern hemisphere in production of log timber.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. E. J. Walsh, Mirani) (2.45 p.m.): So far, hon. members generally have acknow· !edged this vote to be a very important one in the functions of govemment of the State


of Queensland. That, indeed, goes without saving. The State still controls approxi· mi1tely 92 per cent. of the total area of Queensland, and this has an important bear· bg on the policy of any Government, irrespec· tive of politics. Land settlement, and the legislation conceming it, must be the first consideration in the success of the man who seeks a livelihoorl from the land. In Queensbud, the policy for years has been to give every possible consideration to such men. We c:m, I think, agree that in Queensland we have the cheapest land in Australia. That in itself has an important bearing on the ultim::t te success of the settler. As a matter of fart, if we could start de novo and have complete control of all lands in Queensland, many of those on the land to-day would be in a better position, bec:mse an examination of the circumstances of tenants on Crown land and those on freehold land would disclose, generally speaking, that those with freehold tenure arc worse off than the others.

l\Ir. :'\Iacdonald: Are you taking into : onsicleration the bigge1· areas~

The RECRl~'I'ARY }'OR PUBLIC J"ANDS: I am taking into consideration that the free· holcleT staTts off with a veTy high capitalisa· tion.

)Jr. Etlwards: Why do they all accept it?

The SECUETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: That \\·oulc1 be a YCTY interesting clebatc to have on these Estimates, but we do know that they start off with a very high capitalisation and, as a consequence, are faced with hrge annual commitments for interest, and this prm·ents the successful settlement of the :-;tate unrlPr the freehold system. ::\Iny I remark. too, Mr. Gair, thnt there is no general desire mnongst those holcling lm·gc tracts of eountry in this State to go in for the freehold system¥ One never hears of a past•,>ralist or grazier asking ,that his lands bl:ould be convertec1 into freehold. I think I 1!:1\-c mentioned before in this C'hamber that I have hnc1 the expm·ience of being approached hy a bank manag·er to make some representation on behalf of a settler on freehold tenure that it shoulcl be converted to leasehold so that he could exist.

JUr. }~<lwards: The land tax?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: The land tax did not come into the matter. The high capital value under the freehold H \·stem was such that the bank could not give l;im the finandal help it clesired. Later, the request of the settler was met and he got from the bank the help he required.

'l'he hon. member for N anango raised the JlOint that in the other States very high ;-alues were paicl for land. That iR true, and for land that would be no better than much of our land in Queensland, if as good. As the hon. member stated, in the South they have paid from £40 to £50 an acre. A similar state of affairs exists in New Zealand. The minimum ;-alue there might be taken at £50 an ane freehold tenure. The hon. mem· her proceeded to say that for some reason or other these people were not coming to

(,!uecwJland to engage in land settlement. He is one of those who came from the !:iout!Jern States, and I think he luis been suce'l·->ful. He realisec1 the possibility of waking a good living on the land in Queensland as compared \Yith other States, in which he would bave to pay exorbitant prices for land.

Speaking generally, under our perpetual leasehold system a man who goes on the land can use whatever ca'pital he has in developing his pTopel'ty. The nominal rental that he has t'o pay to -clay for a pm·petual leasehold does not become a burclen upon his fi·nancial resources. I can quote instances in my area of men who started on a' freehold basis and had to develop properties with a l1igh capital value, ancl show the advantages that accrued to others who took up perpetual le&ses.

'!'he expansion of land settlement has been c1;scusscd from time to time, and I notice that tlw hon. member for Stanley gave this Gov· C1'1Jment some CTerlit for 'the policy that they have laid down. Naturally, we do not desire to embark upon any comprehensive landsettlement IJolicy cluring war-time; the Gov· ernment ha\"D recognised the futility of such a comse. After all, the question is not only one of putting men on the land, but also one of fincling markets for the things that those men w,oulc1 produce at a time when shipping is resb·ictecl ancl the demand for primary vroducts in genen1l is low. In such circumstances it woulr1 be folly to expand our primary industries beyond their present stage. There \Yill be ample time after the war, when we arc putting into effect the post-war policy the Government have in mind, for embarking on a more comprehensive and a sensible landsettlement polic;·. T can assure hon. members that this Government are not: going to pursue :my policy that \Yill creatp any gTeat disabilities to either the indiYidual or the State.

It is natural that we should be guidecl b~· the mistakes not only of past Governments of this State, but of other Governments through· out Australia-in fact, of Governments throughout the worlcl. It can he said, as a 11n1tter of fac·t, that the polie:· of lnnrl settle· ment that was pursuec1 in Canada after the last \Yar is one of tJ,e most tnigic thing·s that coulc1 he revealec1 to any Government. Victoria, New South \Yale'<, anrl New Zealand have all hac1 their c1ifflculties, alHl we in Queensland must nclmit that wo hacl considerable trouble with the policy that was laill clown here at that time. It is ohvious that the Government will snutinisc every aspect of a land-settlement polie;· for rt>turncd soldiers before they begin to settle' those men on the lam1.

The hon. member fm~ \Vic1e Bay spoke of the cutting of timber ''on a face.'' Of course, clnring \Var·time \YO have to do many thh1gs thnt are not c1esirable in normal times. Now that there is a heaYy clemand for Queens· lanc1 timbers hecau,e of the ban on importations we haYe to c1o certain things to meet not •Only the war reqnirenwnts, bnt also those or civil production in all States. The cutting of timber on a face is usually carried out only where State forests are being preparccl~ for repla'nting. That is to say, where it


would be the usual thing to go through a forest and pick out logs down to a girth of about 60 inches and lea\·c anything under that, it is the policy to-day, when preparing an area for replanting \Tith other tin:bers, to take c•erything. Probablv the hon. member for \Vide Bay has noticecl tlwt in his electorate.

I do not see how \Ye could depart from that policy. The only dternatiYc to it is to leave the timber there and destroy it in the burning off of the scrub. which is fallen for replanting. IIo,.Ye\·er, th'' hon. member can rest assured that the Sub-Department of Forestry "ishes to come n-e timber below a girth of 60 inches in those are1s. As a matter of fact, I ha\·e been giving consideration to \Yhcther we sl1oulr1 not rn·eyent the cutting of timber JJclow ccJ"tain measurements at the top. This matte1 \Yas forcibly brought under my notice \Yhen [ \YHS at ::\Tarybonmgh recently by people iuteresterl in the timber indu.,try. T saw logs there so small that it ,,-oulcl appear to be criminal to cut them. They may hn,·e come from freehold property, bu't I think thnt some steps should be tak:•n to consC'ITC our tintl'crs ';\'ithin p~rtieul::u arr-as.

It may he argnrd 11l:1t if \\·e took steps along <:ertnin line" ,_,.c should be interfering with the libertv of the 1·erson \d10 helrl the la1Ll in fee sin1ple, hut it has to be remembercr1 tlwt there are m:m~- thin;:;s we liaH to do in the int··rcsts of tl1e State. It is, for instance, tr:tgic to se.~ timber destroyed by fires, indiscriminate ringbarking, and other things on properties ut<tsirle the control of the Sub-Department of Forestry, but I would reminr1 hon. members opposite that Jhe yeaTS after Crown land has been selected the GoYernment do not exercise any control oYer the timber on that land. I ran, howeyer, ~s,nre hon. members tlwt the poliry generally Js to ronserYe the areas \Yhere the younger tim bcr is available. I think that policy is in the best interests of the 'ltatc and the indiYidual.

The hon. member for Stanley again mentioned fish ladders. As yet I lw.-e lwr1 no opportunity of discussing with him the interesting qnestion \\·het her "e can breed fish with legs. I as.snre him, however, that \Ye bye not lost sight of the question. In futnrc, as f;u as practicable, this matter 'l';ill

rec<iYe the attention of the Snh-Department of Irrigation, ·water Supply, and Sewerage and of the Co-orclinator-Geueral of Public ·works in the construction of the Yarious weirs the GoYernmont ha1·o in mind.

\Yith regard to concessions to retnrned soldiers mentioned by tlw hon. member for Stnnley, I should like to sny that the Go.-crnment yery early in the W'ar derirled to repeat the concessions gh-en to soldiers clnring the last war; and the Government arc extending those concessions to make them applicable to any class of Crmn1 tenure. That is to say, rent is not being clwrged up to a Crown tenant who is absent at the war so long as the struggle lasts.

ll'rr. JUacdonald: J'\or the fulfilment of the conditions.

Tile SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LASDS: That is so. rt is realised that when ;1 nwn lenves his selection we cannot expect it to be rleveloped as well as if he were present awl n hle to supervise the \Yorking of his pro pert:;, nnd, to my mind, it is only reason a Ue to remit the rent, although it does not eom•• \\'ithin the strict wording of section 93A nf the Art. This concession was introduced two or three yc,;ns after the last war started, lmt on this occasion the GoYernme11t hnY<" decided to apply it at once and to all tenures.

ltfr. COLLI~S (Cook) (2.59 p.m.): I should like to commend the Minister for the attitude he has arlopted towards land settlement. I think it is a Yery wise move to withhold land for further settlement purposes until we know \\hat is going to happen after the war is over. It would not be fair, \Yhiht men are away, to open up land for settlement, as those \YlJO are away should haYe an equal opportunity \\'ith other people to obtain it. From that point of vie\Y, the Goyerument 's policy is a Yery sound one.

I \\"aS pleased to hear the Minister say that the department did not intmd to cilarg. __ rent to a man who was serving with the fighting forces and that he would be absolve<! from residential conditions while he wus awaY but I should like to know whether thosepriY.ilegos \Yill be extended to men doing gnrrison duty within the CommomYealth, bernnsc I rcg·ard that as a war servcee m: 1nnch ns serviDg oyerscas.

A great deal of consideration •Yill haw to be gin•n to the sub.iect of opening new land for settlement, and indeed T think the polic;- that has been pmsued in the past will hm·e to be revic\\·cd, particulnrly in J'\orth Queensland, where there are big arens of standing ~crub in the heavy-rainfall belt on which tremendous crops of timber an' growing, and from which we have pmbabl;v clra \Yn most of our timber \Yealth. :VIuch of the land has been selected and great quantities of marketable timber have lleen sent to the sawmills, but millions of fec1 have been destroyed beenuse at the time it \Yns rcgarclc(] as worthless timber. Ho\Yewr, lwc·ause of the new proe,esses of milling anrt becnuse of the gro,Ying scarcity of timber, together \Yith the excellent work of the SubDepnrtment of Forr,,try in bTinging new timbers onto the market, it is no\Y found that much of this otherwise worthless timber has a considerable vnlue. I can recall tll~ time when one of our highly-prized timlwn ill the J'\orth, the native \Yalnut, was re.~arderi as useless, and I believe that on the Atherton Tableland, where it grmYs particulnrlv \Yell, probably 10 times ns much timber ns hroo been marketed has been destroved in the COUJ"SC of falling SCruh and creating· cJniry farms and maize farms. Only i!nrin,~· the past few yenrs a great quantity of this beautiful timher has been destroyed, nnd J vPntme the opinion that even to-c1a;- we are des'ro;y·ing lnrgc (/Unntities of timlwr tl1nt eYentually \1-onld ]11.-e hnd n high mnrkct valnc. Therefore, in opening new lnw! for settlement \\'e muRt ~rr ''"hether tlw crop of standing timber will n~t be of higher


1 alue than the grass or any other crop it is proposed to grow after the land has been selected. Much of this land 1rill grow timber when it will not gro\Y anything else, and I repeat that in opening new land for selec-1 ion we must be careful to find out if it would not be better to keep it as a permanent forestry reserve instead of using it for agri(·:,Jtmal purposes. The object of opening Lmd for settlement is to encourage the building of homes and provide work and wages for our people. That is all yery well, but if forestry operations are carefully designed :mc1 properly canied out they may, in many instances, giYe more emplovment bv rcforest:ttion for each 100 acres· than h)· agricult uml pursuits.

The Secretary for Public Lands: That is sound.

:'\Ir. Edwards: The timber will take a long time to mature.

)Ir. COLLINS: As I have lived most of my life on the A therton 'l'ablelancl, naturally I know more about that part of Queensland than anywhere else. That land carried a IYomlcTful growth of timber, but with the 2xception of some maple and cedar timber it kts been destroyed, antl >ve find after 30 ,wars that the land has become of very little Ynlne for farming. 'rhe selectors arc in a wrv had >vay indeed, and have n ;iob to find their mtes to the local authorities. That hncl was vnlued 20 years ago at £20 an acre-it was worth it as grass land-but is to-dav not "·orth more than £7 or £8 not>vithstanding that as grass lnnd it is more improved.

}Ir, IUnlwr: That is because it has lost its fertility.

Mr. C.OJjJANS: That is so. It is very rough land, and the cultiYatable land on the h ;]]sides is clifficu lt to work, whilst the heavy rainfall washes the friable soil do\Yll the ~nllies and into the adjacent streams.

::'!Ir. Rarnes: Covld locks not be built to stop that erosion~

~,rr. COLJANS: The country is hardly suitable for the purpose, as it is very steep, while the run-off is tenific. It is possible for 10 or 12 inches of rain to fall in as many hours. ·when that land becomes >vorn out, and loses its value as grass lnnd, it is ,·ery difficult inc1eer1 to put it to any profitable use. Many nttempts have been made to rcjuYenate the soil with fertiliser and increase its carrying capacity, but there appears to be some element in the soil that makes the fertiliser ineffective or renders it insoluble. Technical officers of the fertiliser companies haYc clone a great deal of research Dn this question, and haYe taken samples of soil to thr;r laboratories, but up to date have 11ot solv-ed it. The officers of the Department of Agriculture and Stock haYe also endeavoured ·to solve the problem, and experts from South Australia have investigated it, hut have also been unsuccessful.

Much of this land carries heavy timber and should not be thrown open for land

settlement. That is not the only land available for settlement. We could do better by opening for settlement very rich land further inland. ·while it may not enjoy such a good rainfall as the areas on the coast, nevertheless it could be irrigated. I believe that the future of Queensland under a system of inigation is enormous. In tila t respect the State has not been touched yet.

lUr. JUa]H~r: Can you find markets for the produce~

..'\Ir. COLLINS: That is a very important phase of the agricultmist 's problem, and it is no use blinding our eyes to it, but \W

must not be unduly afraid of being unable to find markets for our foodstuffs. If we are going to be afraid of the future, then we are defeatists. Did our forefathers, when they built railways to Charleville, Longreach, and Cloncurry, fear the future~ They could not see markets for all the produce from the land to be served by those railways, but they had courage nnd the knowledge that people would alwnys require food, clothing, and shelter, which are the three main products of the land, and as long as people ha Ye money to buy them we need ha,-e no fear of over-production. Our main problem is not so much oYer-production as under-consumption.

Before I llepart from this question I want to drmv the department's attention to the need for making roarls through the country I have mentioned. It is rather expensise country, high-minLll country. which means thnt nearly every farm of 150 acres has a running creek through it. Consequently, when n1aking roads one has a series of bridges, probably one a mile or more. It is expensive work, and the heavy rainfall makes macat1amisec1 rom1s necessary. The local authorities find it very difficult to do the necesRar;~· WOTk; and altiwugh the Government have hcen particularly good to them-in many e~ses finding a ,great amount of money-they often fincl the burden a very em:barrassing one, and m~ny local authorities in my area are having difficulty in meeting their intere;t am1 l"Cclemption to the Crown. In ;;;un1c (· the r on 1nnizc and dairying h1nd i~ as as 10s. an acre.

I :m1 goiH;_; to make a snggestion to the Minister that is not altogether new. A cor· tnin amount of money has already been mnde availabLe b:,· the Sub-Dep,utmcnt of Forestry to loc:Jl authorities for the purposes of roadbuiltling, and, I believe, much more of that help should be rendered, because the subtlepar: ment gets the ach·antage of the roads that arc made and maintained Ly them, nnd if the local auth01·ities did not do this work it would l>aYe to tlo it. I suggest that a percentage on all timber rewnue that comes over these roarls should _go back to the local authorities to help them in making and maintaining the roads in that country.

liir. l'IIaller: The Government would not be able to balance the Budget then.

l\Ir. COLLIN§: I am not discussing that at the moment. I think eYen the hon. member for \IV est Moreton realises the value of


what I am saying. It is part of the common policy in New Zealand.

1\Ir. Maher: I am right witll you.

lUr. COLLINS: It is the very conditions that make for good timber-high rainfall and rich lancl-that create the need for expensive road~builcling; the heavy rainfall destroys the ordinary road, at the same time as it helps to gTow the timber. l think there is room for extension of the aid given to local authorities, to mal<e roads in much of that country, which is very rich in timber resources. Something will have to be done to help these local authorities to balance their budgets; other~ wise, I am afraid, they will have to default to the Crown. It is better to make reason~ able provision in the way I suggest tha.n that they should have to fall down on then commitments-which is the last thing they >l·ould desire to do.

Getting back to irrigation, I think . much more could be done than has been done. lll ~he past. The Sub~Department of Irngatron seems to m'e to be ''Nobody's baby'' at the present time. Tlw dep0rt~nen~ has been m~k~ ing investigations mto ungatwn proJects for the tobacco area ior Jive or six years to my knowledge, but so far, IIO definite projec.t has resnltcd, so far as I know. ~ have Illte~·~ viewed the department, aiHl It has maue investigatious, and sent the result to the Co~onlinator~General of Public Works, v:Iw has later iuformed me that he was makmg investigations. I !mow these investigations are necessary, but we do want some >~ate~ m om own time; >re have only a certam hn;e to li•:e. Knowing that the tobacco market m this country is not being suppli~d, . and tobacco is being rationed, I behove It IS ~n indu8try that could be profitabl;y developed If mone.v was made available for nngatw~ pur~ poses. It would not be an expe;·,me.nt, because the lands that are under ungatwn produce an assured crop.

'l'hey also produce a greater quantity. per acre than non~inigated areas. Ther~ IS a market in Australia. As a matte1· of fact, enough tobacco cannot be procured nowit is very difficult to import-and conscque~tly we have had the spectacle of tobacco rabon~ ing for a considerable time.

The irrigation of tobacco lands is one of the soundest projects the Government could undertake. T~here is unlimited land in the north of Queensland capable of growing the fiiwst leaf that ran be grown in the Common~ wealth. In fact, experts have said that ~he leaf grmn1 there is cap a blc of competmg 'Yith the best American. Millions of acres of that land are available. The large rivers running through the areas could be locked and vat er mnde ayuilable to enable innnmcr~ able people to settle under good conditions and »·ith an assured market. ·what more could one desire than that?

1'he Cooktown area is very suitable for cotton~growing. There is an opportnnit~ for a great expansion there .. C?oktown. ~s. a coast tmn1 with goocl slnppmg faci!Ihes. It has been settled for over 50 years, but the population has almost entirely gone,

because there is no industry on the JamL There is an opportunity fo_r settint; up an industry that would probably be of greater value than the mining industry was, an<.! that made Cooktown a very important city~

'rho rivers running into the Gnlf of Carpentaria-the Gilbert, the Mitchell, tl1e Norman, and the F!inders-also have great possibilities. 'l'he scheme is worthy of nn:eh consideration and a complete survey of the possibilities of irrigation, the settlement of people on these lands, the class of produce to be grown under irrigatioii, and markets. I believe that much could be done in tlw way of fattening cattle, for instance. It is natural cattle country, but it is sulJject to very long dry spells with each year a regul;n rninfall spreac1 over six months. During the dry period the stock naturally become poorer. If these rivers were locked and the water used for irrigation lucerne and other pastures coul:1 be grown. It would not then be necessarv to send the cattle to the South to be fatteJ1ed by people 'IVho probably make more out of them than the settlers struggling in the North. Certainly this would rob the 8outhen1 cattle~dealers of a maTket in >Yhirh to buy their stores, but that difficulty could be oYcreome.

The settlement of the north of Qucenslanrl is of importnnee nation:1lly. I have had the opportunity of seeing >vhat can be done with good inigation in the fattening of both sheep and cattle in New South ·wales and Victoria, and I believe that the opportunities in Queensland are better than in those States. \Y c ha Ye a large amount of land capable of being closely settled if »"e hnd an assured water supply. Att I P 2e it, all that is neces~ sary is to apply a broac1~vision scheme of irrigaiion, to conserye water that othenYisc wonld run to waste and often destroys millions of pounds worth of property 'in periods of flood. If such >Vater '\Yere con .. sen·cd and used sensibly in a dry pPriod an everlasting benefit would be conferrer] on the State. It would increase the wealth of the Stntc nnc1 mnke foT much better living conditions for the people in the OPtback. I commend it to the J\finister for his con~ sidcration.

~Ir. .TONES (Charters Towers) (3.20 p.m.): I haYe noticed that dnring the ln~t two years at lcnst we ha,·e lwen passing through a drought at the time when we hn H' been discussing this ,·ote. The fnrt tl1nt t11c season is dry makes us refer t.o the need fen· >vDter and fodder conservation--

JUr. Spadres: Unfortunately, we forget it "~hen it rains.

'ilir •• JONES: That is true. A fe•v days ngo I saw in the ''Com·icr~J\fnil'' a report to the effect that the local authorities of the \Veot we1·e approaching the Government in cpnnection with ways ancl means of c•1mb:1t~ ing tl1e effects -of drought. Amongst other thi11gs, that report says-

" West \Vnnts Action to Fight Drought.o.

''A basis for the solution of "~onl industry problems, espccinlly the combating

Supply. [7 0CTO:EIER.] Supply. 62l

of drought by co~operation between the Government as landloTd, the grazier as landholdeT, and the local authority as co~ordinating authority, is being sought by the Western Local Authorities' Association.

''As a result of a conference, the asso~ ciation has submiiJted a number of suggestions to all hon. members of the State Cabin et by the secretaTy of the association (Mr. J. C. Pearson). These suggestions ineluded-

Hegeneration of native fodder and shade timbers. Introduction of otheT fodder and shade timbers. ConseTvation of heavy gTass crops in a good season.''

I was pleased to notice the other day that the SecTetary for Public Lands made a statement in connection with shade trees, and I understand that it is his intention to make them available to tlwse people in the \Vest who want them. I am one of those who believe that the graziers of Western Queensland have been too happy-go-lucky in these matters. There is a stretch of country between Hughenden and \Vinton on which there is scarcely a tree for 100 miles. Some yeaTs ago I was woTking at one station out there when it >vas necessary to truck coal fTom Bowen during the shearing season because there was no timber in the locality for fuel. I suggest that it should not be necessnry for the Government to take the i11itiative in these things. It is quite all right for the Government to gi>"e consideration to proposals-indeed, they have done s'o-but the bigger pastoral companies, such as the Australian and New Zealand Land Company, to which £1,000 is of no gTcat moment, could have planted shade trees and fenced them off. I notice in the aTticle to which I have referred that mention is made of the fact that shade trees are often destroyed by stock. It is only natural that they should be if they are just planted in the plains without protection from sheep and cattle. One would expect to see fences erected around any trees that were planted i11 such areas.

I l13ve said in this Chamber on previous occasions that the graziers could also take action themsdves to conserve na tura1 grasses. Anyone who has travelled through \Vestern Queensland during· the past seaBon and seen green grass on tlic plain, as high as 2 feet and 3 feet, must have been struck with the thought that the landholdcrs could haYe tLlken action to conscrYe tha't fodder when it ,,-as abundant and so prepaTe for times such as those througl1 which. we are going. One property, Rod11ey Downs, has conserved' natiYe grasses for years.

During the 1926 drought, Rodney Downs had 18 or 20 haystacks and so was able to feed its stock. I saw a statement made by another station management outside Longreach that it cost £26,000 to keep stock alive during the same drought. That station could have done, without difficulty, what Rodney Downs did. This state of affairs does not apply to the larger pastoral companies only. It is only necessary to clear and stump 100 or 200 acres of level country. When the

rains come, and the grass grows, all that is required is that a mowing machine shall go over the land and an abundance of fodder is available for use in lean periods. The average grazier is rather lackadaisical in his manner and metltods. When there is rain, everything in the garden is lovely and no body seems to care a hang what will happen next week; but, immediately a drought comes along, the iirst thing we hear of is that an approach should be made to the Government for relief.

The hon. member for Cook said a few moments ago that in North Queensland thousands of acres of lanrl were ideally suited for the cultivation of tobacco. I agree with him. The aTea round Charters Towers has many problems to be solved. As hon. members know, this old mining centre boomed about 1900, but its population has gradually dwindled from 32,000 to 9,000. Our problems are somewhat similar to those of Gympie many years ago. I believe that there is a future for Charters Towers in agriculture. Vile have plenty of water, and hundreds of aeres of suitable land that could be irrigated. 'Three or four years ago the Secretary for Agricul-· ture and Stock arranged for a soil survey to be made and the officers responsible for that survey said that the country will grow almost anything. In their report they said-

'' During our visit to Charters Towers we had a'n excellent opportunity of seeing what this area is capable of pi·odtwing. It is evident that the climate is admirably suited to the production of a large range of agricultural crops. For instance, cauliflowers, cabbage, potatoes, peas, beans, tomatoes, maize, and citrus all do excellently. The Sellheim scmblands appear to afford a very suitable area for the production of tobacco under irrigation.' '

But, there was a fiy in the ointment. These experts looked into the possibilities of 1,100 acres .of land, accommodating 30 farm-', but, on gomg mto the proposal from an econvmi~ point of vie·w, it was found that. it would eost. a pproxinw tely £8 an acre per a11num to irri O'a te this country, and we all know that thrrt w~uld not pay. My contention is that the capital cosh of this scheme could be greatly reduced by iinc1ing additional areas of land adjacent to the country concerning ·which the report was made. One cannot expect people to take ~P. lar:d and have to pay £8 an acre :t'or ll'ngatwn.

A comparison with other irrigation schemes is rather interesting, because at Renmaric, South Australia, the cost is only £2 an acre; at Vi!erribee, Victoria, £3 10s.; at Yanco and ~1:irrool,_ New South Wales, £1 7s. 6d.; and m the Dawson Valley, Queensland, £1 10s. an acre.

The Secretary for Public Lands: That is for all charges, including rates.

~Ir. JONES: That is so. It is necessary to haYc careful regard to the economic possibilities of a scheme, so that men \\'ill not l•c placed on the land without any ('hancc of makin~· a snccc~,; of it. I believe that if the Government gave further consideration to the proposal by making nse of additional a"eas,


thP i_'ost of irl'lgation could he reduceU to about £5 an acre per annum, >Yhich, according to the people in the North, would make the production of tobacco economically possible.

Of course, there are other crops that can be grown in the district At the present time, 'Pownsville, Mount Isa, Hughcnden, VVinton, and other towns in those districts arc dra>Ying their wgetable anr1 fruit supplies from the coast and from as far away as Brisbane, and I am sure that if some consideration wa·s given to my proposal it would prove to be a distinct ndvanbge to the people in the \Vestern parts of the State. On the Broughton Hiver, 12 miles south of Chm'ters 'l'O>Yers, there are some of the finest 01·chnrds to be seen in the Statr. Yegetable3, too, can be prolifically grown there, and the supplies are readily snapJ•cd up by the people li,·ing along the Great Northem railway line. If the farmers could produce more vegetables they would have no tmuhle whateYer in finding a market for it in the Northern districts.

Perhaps it would he better to provide a small plant for each s·•ttler instead of embarking on a huge irrigation scheme. 'v\'atcr is easily ohtaiuetl, because some people on the Broughton Riyer are inigating their areas by me::ns of smull plants costing from £200 to £400, u_nd they are suc·cessful. 'rhere is no reao•on dty tl1n t principle should not be extenclecl to the production of other crops, especial1:y jn pos-t-\\-~~~, rcco1Btru~tion

Howe er. this is a matter that must be rlcaH \Yith 'Yc1·y t:1utio'tsly flnd one th:1t tl1c Go,·crtllnent should not witllout due care, Ler-:m~c I belinc that in the past land settlement has been regan1••d by many people, not only in Australia but in other countries of the \\ orlrl, ns something of an atheuture. Pol' 1nsta11ce, n1any persons vrho \Yere born and b,l li1·ut1 in the city re::;arclerl it as an ~chr-ntnre to l1ecomC' ;, farmn. I can recall the tilll(' in 1908 and 1910 ~>-he11 areas of 160 neres in Canada \:ere n1ade ~lYai1::hle fn'c to Jl<'ople in l~ngland and }Jurope, bnt the new sPlertors were very largely failures. They ·went to Cnmula cmd cleared manv hundred acres of lnnr1, but they could 1110t make a living. fLown-er, when the fa'rmers from 'the United StatC's of America, men who knew sonwthing about fartning, ca·me in nnd took up the land, they were succ( c,;sf11l. It is .imt ns necBssary to serye an apprenticeship to farming as it. is to any other trade, or to br born to the occupation. I \\-as on the 1Rnc1, and J know something· about it, and I knmY that it is neeessary to have some experience of the lancl in order to make a sue,, .. , of ir. l clo not a I together blame for the failure of schemes of 1~"''1 settlement, bccnnse they put them forward with all ~;ootl intentions_

I remember that the present Government decided in 1932 to make banana plantations a\·ailable for the nnenmloyed. I had something to do with them "anii with the placing of the men on the land. 'Phe men were ·willing to >York, and indeed worked like horses, but they had no idea of •.vhat they had to do, and before !ono- thev were ''fed up'' and wanted to get back 'to the city. I suppose

that not more than (j per tent. of them were suited to the occupation, and the majority of them eyentually walked off their farms and returned to the cities.

l bclieYe that this is a question to which the Government will have to giYe very careful c.1nsideration; because everybody who desires to do something for the returned soldier more often than not suggests putting him on the land. I do not know why, but that seems to be the first thought that comes to the average person, \Yho, I agree, is actuated by the best of intentions. He thinks that by pla~ing the retumec1 soldier on the land he will be emaneipating him and placing him in an independent position.

JUr. Sparkes: Those who are a failure in everything they undertake are put on the land.

JUr. JONES: That is so. The Government will be well advised to giYe very careful consideration to every such scheme.

:ilir. SP ARKES (Aubigny) (3.36 p.m.) : I consider this vote is ono of the most important if not the most important, to ~ome before the Committee. A sound policy of land settlement means a sound State, for withont successful land settlement you cannot haYe a successful State. 'l'his is ~ question that closely affects the future of Queensland, \Yhich is much wrapped up in its land policy. For that reason it has been Yery pleasing to hear the remarks of the hon. member who has just resumed his seat, together with those of the hon. members for Herbert and Cool:. They haYe hall actual expCTience of the lam1. l yisunlise the hon. member for HerLert as a man who has worked wry hard indeed on the land. His remarks slw·w that he is fully conversant >Yith its problems allr1 the diilicultics and hardships confronting the mnn on the land. As the hon. member for Charters 'l'owers rem,,rked, there are failures in all land ~ettlement, and that is due not entirely to the policy of the GoYcrnment but to the fad to use a hackneyed phra~e, that you c::mnot' put a sqcmre peg in a round hole.

The Secretary for Public Lands: A lot dc~·ends on the aptitude of the indiYidual.

1Ur. 8Pj_RKES: That is so. As has hccJJ remarked dming the r1cbate, some people imagine that ono has only to take up a piece of Imd awl, so to speak, it is money from home, that there is really nothing to do, anrl no problems that require any brains. Those hon. members svl10 ]!aye aclrlrc.3sed themselves to the debate in allrlition to the Minister in charg·o of the vote nnd the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock know full >Yell that a successful selector must haYe a good deal of brains.

I have always held the opinion that the Government in their land policy should, so far as area is concerned, er:r on the side of ;::·enerosity.

lUr. Collins: It is more a matter of how the land is used.


liir. SPARl{ES: That is so. If you give a dairyman too big an m·ea, then you severely handicap him with local-authority rates. I have been connected with local authorities for 30 years, and I was surprised to hear an hon. member say that some selectors were paying as much as 10s. an acre in rates.

lUr. Collins: I do that myself.

lUr. SPARKES: I am not doubting the hon. member's statement, but I did not know th::tt it 1Y~s possib1e. ThB_t i.s an e~f'Art.ionnlly big rate for a selector to carry.

The hon. member for Cook also referred to the removal of timber from forests. That is important. I hope that the Minister is listening very carefull_y, although in any timber policy he will haw to contend with his colleague, the Treacurer, particularly as to aid fOT local authorities. I know that the remarks of the hon. member apply to those areas where as much as 12, 14, and 16 inches of rain falls in 24 hours, and soil ancl roads are washed away into the gullies. It also applies to the western areas, where cypress pine and hardwood are carted. The conntry is sanely, and the lonies play havoc with the roads. It is a. great bugbear to the ·western shires. It is becoming more apparent each year that the local authorities will be eventually faced \l·ith the problem \Yhether their ratepnycrs can builcl the roacls that are wanted by the public.

l~eYerting to land settlement, it is better to have areas a li'title bigger than those laid down rather than a little smaller. I am sme the :Minister and those hon. members "-ho are connected with the land will appreciate what I say. I think it was the hon. member for Cook who said that a settler ·was an asset to this State. I agree wholeheartec1ly, but I maintain that he must be a successful settler in order to be an asset to the State; if he is not a successful settler, hon. members who represent country areas "-ill agree that he is a very troublesome gentleman, and quite an embarrassment to the department.

'fhe Secretary for Public Lands: A liability rather than an asset.

1\Ir. SP ARKE S: Taking the remark of the Minister into consideration, I suggest the area should be rather on the liberal side because a successful settler is an asset not only to the Minister, but to the Treasurer also. After all, the man on the land should become a taxpayer. It is my one desire to see every settler become a taxpayer; when he does so he becomes an asset to the State. I agree with the hon. member for Herbert that there is nothing the Government can clo that should not be done-within reason, of course-to help land settlement.

The hon. member who just resumed his seat spoke of the westen1 areas. I am very conYersant with the areas he mentioned. I traYclled through that area about 20 years ago, ancl I tell the hon. member-he probably knO\YS it better than I clo-that the timber was never destroyed, it never gre,v. To a certain extent the grazier has been careless

about providing shade, but in reply to the hon. member I say that probably if the grazier were allowed the amount spent on growing trees as a taxation deduction he might grow them, 'I'hat is an important point. The hon. member knows that it is not the easiest thing in the ,,-orld to grow trees in that area.

Mr. Collins: It is an allowance deduction.

~rr" SPARKRS: Tt is not: I am sorry to have to contradict the hon. member.

1\Ir. Collins: I think it is.

JUr. SPARKES: I do not propose to be drawn off the track. This discussion has been an amicable one, and it will be of benefit to the State from the point of view of land settlement.

Tl1e hon. member for Cook also mentioned fodder conservation, and spoke of that we~tern area also. I do not know where the ''CourierMail" got its information, but the greatest part of the West is enjoying one of the best seasons for years, but as the hon. member said, the grass is beginning to clry up, awl the possibility of bushfires is very gre:~t.

The Minister takes the work of his clenartment very seriously, and he may be able to do something to bring about the conservation of fodder. If the amount spent was allowc<l as a deduction for income tax Jlllrposp' in the same '"ay as money that is spout on ring· barking it is probable that the graziers \Yaulcl conserve more fodder. I do not say tlwt it would make him conserve fodder entirely. I realise, as has been said by the hon. me'ml!cr who just resumed his seat, that we are prone to forget. I ventme to say that if 3 inches of rain fell throughout Queensland to-night or to-monow morning people would forget all about the dry weather in 24 hours. Unfortunately, that is only human nature, but if these taxation deductions were conceded I feel sure it woulc1 help in O'.nnw measure in making these people consen-e foc1c1el'. It was really a case of helping poop le to help themselYcs.

The same applies to water, which is one of the most important items in land settlement in Queensland. If there is any liYe thing on a property water is of the fl.Tst importance. In irrigation a very big joh lies ahead of the State, and one that ·will have to be tackled sooner or later. An hon. member mentioned tobacco-growing. I had the pleasure of traYelling through the r nitcil States and noticed that virtually every riYer or watercourse \Yas harnessed not only for irrigation purpose~, but for provif1ing i1owcr an cl other things. Almost all the tobacco grmYn in Virginia is grown under irrig·ation. The hon. member mentioned Charters Towers. That is a YeTY good cattle district, but it is subject to yery dry spells and to gro,,- the crops he mentioned it would be absoLitely essential to consene water.

I clo not know whether the Minister ea n enlighten me ns to whether the Fencing Act

624 Supply. [ASSE~1BLY.] Supply.

conles under Ills UcJ}arbnont; it is so antiquated that very few know really under which department it does come. If I remember rightly, I think it comes under the Department of Justice. If that is so I >Youlcl crave your indulgence, ::\fr. Gair, to permit of my saying how much I should like to see the administration of that Act brought under the Department of Public Lands. After all, it is wo,·en in with the settlement of land, and with all due Tespect to tho l\Iinistcr administering the Department of Justice and without casting any reflection on him for a moment, I ask that it be placed under the DcpaTtment of Public Lands.

The Secretary for Public Lands dealt with the rcl:1tive merits of freehold and leasehold tenures \vithout entering into any long discussion on the subject, I >Yish to say that the two tenures are as far apart as the poles. The !ton. gentleman said that at present the State controls o•·e1· 90 per cent. of the land in Queensland. I must be frank ancl admit that I hold double tlte amount under leasehold that I hold under frecholcl-J doubt if T hold 30,000 acre~ under freehold, and I hold considerably more than that under leasehold-but I mint the "!:lfinister to listen vcrv attentively to this: leasehold tenure is used in the lrier areas ;ne as in which the ntinfall is sma]] and th~ eonntry is stocked mostly with ea ttle and sheep.

Itt the more elo3ely-s.·ttlctl areas, however, where the fanner has GOO acres and less, I "helir ·;e that the preference is for freehold. As I haYe said before, leasehold is better for the larger pastoral areas, ancl I Yenturc the opinion th·1t irrespective of the Go,·ernment in power, such land will continue to be leasehold, Jmt I appeal to the Minister to gin• the smaller man the opportunity of ~ctv:1lly owning his lnml for all time.

The Secretary for Public IAmds: After nll, perpetual l•·a>ce is just as good as frc0lJOlrl.

Tlle Secretary for Health mHI Home Affair~: In fact, it is exactly the same.

i!Ir. SPARKES: It is not exactly the ,;ame, because under perpetual leasehold a rent has to be paid each year, but on the smaller areas of freehold land there is no lane! tax to be paid, and the owner has the right to say that the block is his own for all time. I should like to see it made optional.

The !ton. memher for Herbert referred to our underground >vater supplies. I admit that there are large supplies-no doubt our scientists vl'ill be able to tell ns how much is there-and I ag-ree that they should not be wasted, but I do hope that no legislation thnt will interfere in an:;' way with the wells an cl shallow or sub-artesian bores of the small settlers is brought before this Parliament.

Tl!e SECRETARY :FOR PUBLIC LA~DS (Hon. E. J. \Valsh, Mirani) (3.53 p.m.): The hon. member for Wicle Bay raised the question of noxious weeds. Five years ago

the Government sought to take power to deal with noxious weeds, and there was a general outcry, even from some members of the Opposition, that it was not desirable to take from district improvement boards ancl local authorities power to deal with the watering of stock routes and the destruction of noxious weeds. 'l'he Minister of the clay, the late Mr. Pease, agreed to a suggestion to allow these local authorities nnd district improvement boards to deal with these matters where the Minister's powers were delegated to them. Curiously enough, however, ,Yhile the Govemment did give in to the sugg-estion at thnt time, we have been bombarded with requests to take action to deal with noxious 'veeds. That shows that the policy the Government proposed to follow at that time was the correct one. Many local authorities are ra1smg the question now because it hHs been found that although one local authority will face up to its responsibilities and do its duty in accordHnce with the delegated powers, others alongside it have given the matter no attention at all. The destruction of noxious weeds in those areas where the }finister has delegated his powers is entirely a matter for the loeal authorities.

Mr. Clayton: Are local authorities in noxious weeds~

you financing the the eradication of

The SECRET~\RY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: They have been willing to take the matter away from the department. The GoYernment werr of the opinion that this matter should be treated as a na~ional question, just as we thought the watermg of stock routes should be a national question. 'That idea dicl not meet the wishes of hon. members opposite at the time. If hon. members will look at the debate that took plHce when the late Secretary for Public Lands introduced the Stock Routes Improvement and Animal ancl Vegetable Pests Destruction Act of 1936, they ,,-ill see that there wns a general desire to keep the Government out of the matter. If the local authorities concerned m·e not going to cloal with the matter, some· thing will have to be clone to make them face their obligations, or the powers conferred upon them will have to be taken away.

::lir. Clayton: I agree that something must be done.

Tl!e SECRETARY I<'OR PUBLIC LANDS: It must be admitted t hn t there are local authorities and district improvement boards that are standing up to the obligations imposed upon them; on the other hand, there are those that prefer to l0nn on the Government and at the same time cry about the high taxation levied in the State. If 've are to be called npon to subsidise local authorities, it will be better for the Government to take complete control. Since there was no agreement on the point in the past, it was thought desirable to hand the matteT over to the local authorities themselves, but the scheme has not been working to the satisfaction of selectors ancl landholders generally.

Supply. [7 OcToBER.] Supply. 625

!)fr. Sp1n·kes: You realise that in some areas it would be utterly impossible to destroy noogoora burr.

'rhe SECRETARY l'OR PUBLIC LAN118: Yes, I realise that, and I also realise that it is a difficult task for the man who is taking a keen interest in the development of his own country to do what he would like unless his neighbours are subject to coercion from the Gov8l'nment or local authority. He is kept busy with the destruction of lantana. and other noxious weeds on his holding, and they grow next door.

'l'he hon. member for Cook raised a rather interesting point when he brought before the Committee the question whether many of our lands in the North would not be more profitable if u~ed for reforestation purposes than for general settlement. I agree with the hon. member to some extent. We know that in many distTicts the destruction of timber and scrub areas will result in considernble <'rosion as the yPars go by, so that in time the fertility of the soil YYill be lost and the land will become a barren waste. It is a mnttel' for consideration YYhether it would be wise to hold some a re as for purely forestry purposes, and I think the hon. member's suggestion should receive consideration by any Government ,,,;hen dealing with land ficttlement in Northern areas.

The hon. member for Stnnley introduced once more the destruction of marsupial pests in resencs. The diffieultv he described n'1plics with cqnnl force to 'freehold lnnd, a good part of which has not been developed. :\Inch of thh land becomes a harbourage for many of our pests, and it would be a tremendous undertnking for the State to set ahont destro;ving marsupial pests on Crown land if they are allowed to go unchecl,ed on other land. In any case, the question aTises whether that is desirable. I know that in the eaTlv r1eYelopmcnt of some of the northeTn area"s the selertors went to the trouble of netting their cultiYation aTcns at big expense mther thnn set about c1eshoying the scrub ronnel the selections and in that way they dir1 to some extent cope with the mem1ce f1;om these pests. -

The l10n. member for Charters Towers rnised the question of shade trees in western areas. This is a question in which the department is becoming very interested, but it will reCJuirr something· in the Drthue of ~ comprel!cn~ive sm·ycv l1cfore we e~n fin~ 11:- decide to what extent we cnn help the lanc1holc1ers in various r:uts of the Stntc. "\Ve know that on pnrt-- of the corJ.st, wlwre weat11er conditions nrc favonra hle, rcgeneTation is an easy matter, hut when "\Ye see tracts of countTy with only a tree here rmcl there, we know that there must be a reason for it m1d that is why I say that a comprehensive soil snn-c;v will have to be carriNl out hy sih-icultmists rmd soil experts attached to the department before :t final decision can be made. It was my intention to send out these officers to the western areas to carry out investigations, but, owing to the war ancl petrol rationing, I dic1 not think it wise to have these officers tmvelling many hundreds of miles by car, as they would

have to do, e\·cn after they had reached their destination on the railways. However, something has been done up to the present, and we have been enjo;ving the co-operation of individual settlers in various parts of the State.

With the hon. member for :Munumba, I went to the Beenn1h nursery, where \Ye saw thousands of trees of species suitable for \Yestern localities being propagated by the Sub-Department of :E'orPstry. Since then, quite a number of these small trees have been sent to people interested. The department circularised the schools, and, so far, we have received replies from 20 schoolR, thus showing that the teachers anc1 the children are interested in encouraging the growth of shade trees in those areas \\-here regeneration is notas easy as in other parts.

)Ir. Clayton: They would encourage the idea.

i'he SJ<:CRET"iRY FOR PUBLIC LX'WS: TLat is so. lt is something in which considerable encouragement can be given by hon. members, too, be( a use if >Ye talk about a thing long enough, particularly if it is the trnth, the people will believe it. I have seen indiscriminate ringb:uking, particula1·ly on freeh-old land andlanc1 in procec-s of alienation from the Crown. In these c:1ses, there has been n tendenry to forget the value of the shade trees. l cannot understand why an owner of land will allow nu employee to take an axe and go out iwliscriminately ringbarking everything that comes before him with an utter disregard to the value of trees :1s shade and to the commercirJ.l value of the timber. There is no doubt that a great deal can be done in fostering the growth and preserving shade trees.

Jib·. Clayton: The children are educating their parents to-clay in regard to timber.

'l'he SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: That is so. 'l'he Sub-Department of Forestry and the Department of Public Instmction bave been responsible for thnt in many cases. Some very fine project work is being done at the schools in the plnnting of pine trees and the gl'O\Ying of grass, ancl thus a correct outlook is being fostered; as the hon. member for \Vide Bay has indicated, the children are teaching their parents. This work should be considerably extended.

It certainly has annoyed me at times to see tho damage done to much •oJ our va1uable timber. A complete disregard has been shown to the value of shade as \Yell as the commercial value of the timber. I hope to extend this work and when conditions are more favourable my proposal is to send qualified officers into Yarious area's to make a compr0hcnsivc investigation, as well as to endeavour to enlist the co-operation of the selectors and pastoralists in those areas in a polirv of planting shade trees, and advising the Government accordingly. It is not a very easy question to deal with.

The hon. member for Aubigny raisecl the question of the successful settler. Here, agnin, is another avenue where one finds misfits.


\Ve haYe the man who thinks he can go on th0 land and make a fortune by sitting about and asking for as much relief as he can get from the Government. Unfortunately, that habit has in many respects been encouraged by statements made in this Chamber. It is not a good thing. Generally, the most success· ful settlers I haye c'ome across are those who lJoye knuckled down to their task >Yith cour· age and determination. That is the policy we should encoura·ge.

Mr. Sparkes: Hear, hear!

The SECRETARY FOR Pl'BLIC LANDS: Aptitude, courage, and detennination are the chief qualifications any man should possess wlJO purposes going on the land. Although a mnn has been associated with land settlement all his life and may hm e bc0n the son of a furmcr he may turn out to bo one of the biggest possible failures when he undertakes land work himself. I have had many instance-s and personal knowledge of men who have come from the cnYiromnent of the city, but who with the qualities of courage and determination have beoome successful settlers because they depended on their own initintive and work. \Ve can all agree that we may go too far in the theoretical side of rm<al life. There is nothing like starting off with the good old horse and plough, although, of c•ourse, it is very desir· able to haYe a: good departmental man handy to give you advice' Nor is it any use when giving advice in bud mntters to get up in tho air, ns it were, to start off on the theoreti· ea! side. The succes&ful farmer must, first and foremost. come down to mother earth. He must not 'be taught harebrained theories, although many such arc put forwa'rd to-day to show how ono can become a successful farmer. If a man who taught such theorie.s was put to the .iob himself he woul<1 show how a complete failure rnther than a success· ful farmer could be made.

Another question the hon. member for .\ubigny raised WRS tha't of erring on the generous side in thB subdivision of Crown land. Generally speaking, that principle cqn be acceptccl by all hon. members of the Oom· mittee. It is a good policy to err on the right side when subdivirling big areas into wl1atl are normally regarded as living areas. Unfortunately, manv of onr difficulties in close,· settlement have arisen from the sub· division of large areas into small blorks in the agricultnra l centres.

Honoural1!e ::\[embers: Hear, hear!

The SECRE'URY l'OR PrBLIC L)d'WS: That is true of the Department of Public L:mds->Ye han~ many BVidences of it-but the Government of the dav haYe benefited by learning from those mistakes.

These remarks apply equally to the subdivision of freehold land. In some areas I have visited since I last spoke in this Assembly I ha.-e noticed that the tendency in many of our closely settled areas has been to subdivide freehold lands in such a way that huving reg·ard to their remoteness from available markets it "·ill be impossible for the

settlers to make a success of their work. The question ar·ises whether it would not be a good thing to introduce legislation goYeming the sizB of tl1e areas according to the purpose for which they are to be used'. Local authorities have guiding principles set down for them with respect to the subdivision of private land for residential purposes a'nd it is a moot question whether a similar policy in relation to freehold lands in agricultural areas would not be in the best in.terests of the· S'ta te.

The frceholder subdi,-ides land for agriculture, and after the farmer l1as paid interest nnd capital on the purchase he leans on the Go,-ernmcnt for nssistnnce to get him out of the difficulty brought about owing to the smnllne·s of his arra. ::lfnny people argue that dnirymen and others mising stock on such blocks should cons ern~ for1r1r'r. J n Crown subdivisions the Go,-ernment have been endcavonring to subr1ivic1e areas into blocks that will allow that to be <lone, but, .iudging from my own experience, I 8honl<l say many dain·mcn arc trying to get a living· ou SO-acre blocks who could not go in for sneh conser· Yation. As I say, some .in<lgment should he shO>nr by owners subdiYiding their freehold land for agricultmal purposes to see that the an as are sufficient to allow a man to make a reasonable living, lwving· regard to the remote· ness of the area fr·o111 the m:uket. That is a Yital factor. \Vhat might be a li,·in.g- area >Yithin :lQ miles of Drisbnno, "-here !here is ready access to the market, would he mneh less tlwn a li>·ing area J 00 miles >vest, south, or north of the city. TllP farmers fartllost from the city have extra expense in getting their products to the ma'rket, notwithstandin.C!; concessions in freights.

So far as allowing expenditure on conser· Yation of fodder as a tax deduction is con~ ccnw<l, that is a matter of Govemment policy, aml the Government do not usually indicate their policy during the discussion on the Estimates. But it is a. very disturbing feature of life cm the land, or anywhere else, for that matter, if people will not endeavour to look after their own welfare before asking for some concession from the Government. The hon. member for Aubigny knows ns >Yell as I do that there are many graziers >vlw conserTe fodder in good times. The case I have in mind-I think the hon. member for Cook is very conversan',t with it-is thnt of Hodney Downs. Every year they have a. luxurious growth of grass there, ~fr. Shannon has it cut and stacked for a lenn time. The Iron. me m her for Aubigny rightly said the traged_Y of the whole tlrin,g· •vas that when >Ye have these good seasons we forget there is another drought coming in three or four years, and nobody takes the opportunity to prepnc for it. Generallv speaking, the policy is to look for some encouragement from thr· Government. I think our policy should be to encourage the men on the lnnd to the extent of building access ronds, and doing things of that kind. No Government can claim as m·uch credit as this Government in that regard-hon. members will ngrce with that-but at the same time the big thing is to encour2ge the individual to use \YlrateYcr


UY21Wc is 1Hailable to him to secure his own welfare. Unfortunately, he does not do so in many instances.

As to forestry gcnemlly, the point has been ~·aised whether we should not put more money into reforestation than \Ye have clone. I might reminJ hon. members that of the total area planted with various species of timber ;,ince forestry planting· started-and remember that the plantings haYe gone on since 1916, with breaks here and there-we have during the lust three years planted one-third. So at kast it can be said that we have given attention to that phase of the subject.

At 4.15 p.m.,

Mr. DUNSTAN (Gympie), one of the panel of Tempol'Rry Chairmen, relieved the Chairman in the chair.

Tile SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: The question of roads and subsidies was rui:sed by the llon. meml)er for Cook .. 'rhere is no cloulJt that this is a problem m the northern areas, particularly those that haYe a ,-c1·v high rainfall. line, again, we are abc<' to show that >ve rue not losing sight of the difficulties that confront the local authorities. In a discussion on this matter, one has to have the wide outlook, as it applies not only to the harve~ting of timber but also to wh~ct has been done by the Government in other respects so far as road access is concerned. It must be remembered that it is gc·iieral policy that local authol'itics are called

to pay onl:-- about three-fourteenths of cost of the construction of main roads.

That is a plwsc t-hat must be taken into consideration in any request for subsidies. It means that frequently considerable relief in access to farming properties is given by main roads. Then, one turns to the other side of the picture. Last year a total of over ilOJ,OOO \vas expenl1e(l on forestry roads under various headings. For example, the SubDepartment of Forestry expended on forestry roads £34.689. That is in addition to the cxpcnnihnC on rcfoTestation generally.

ll'Ir. J!Iacdonald: Is that subsidies?

The S:ECRI~TARY l'OR PUBLIC LANDS: Subsidies to local authorities amounted to £7 . .549. The sum of £62,665 was expended by tlu) Public Estate Improvement Branch on purely forestry roads. These items give a total of £104,903 expended last year on roads ~~sociatefl with forestrv 8ctivities. That bet must not be orerloob:cl, and tlu1t sum is in audition to the expenditme on purely reforestation work.

Then, there is also the other phase. As a result of the policy of the Gorernment from the time they came to power in 1932 to encourage re-employment as well as improye road systems thev subsidised local authorities up' to 50 per" cent. for roads other than main roads, roads of the Public Estate Impro\·ement Branch, -o·r roads :that might be regarded as having any connection with Government administration. 'l'his subsidy was granted to local authorities who were willing to undertake work on access roads in their area~.

Jir. JUacdonald: But clo not forget you were doing the damage to those roads.

The SECRETARY J<'OR PUBLIC LANnS: We should examine that statement. I will not say that the Sub-Department of Forestry does not do some damage, but that statement in itself does not convey a true picture to the Committee. For example, a local authority has power to regulate the traffic on its roads, and, speaking generally, the fact that the timber is hauled bv the contractors on behalf of the departinent controlling forestry is no reason why the local authority could not control the traffic.

Mr. Collins: The timber comes over it, in any case.

'rhe SECRE'l'ARY :FOR PUBI.~IC LANDS: The point I am making is that usually not the same amount of damage is c::msecl by \Yl·at might be called purely Forestry ~-mffic as by priYate timber. For -example, there came under my notice a request for the expenditure of a certain sum of money for the erection of a timber ramp in a northern area. The Hailway Department suggested that the Suo-Department of .Forntry should bnr that cxpellsc_ As Minister, I desired to know whether my department was responsible for all the timber coming from that point. The information disclosed that of the timber loaded there, 60 per cent. was by this department, the other 40 per cent. from private sources. Of course, the sub-depa'rtment is affected by the acti,-ities of the Railway Depar.tmm:t, the same as prh·ate individuals, anc~ .L nllght point out. that we have not endeavoured to increase the price of logs, al.though we may have the poweri to do so wrthout first referring it to the Federal authOTities to ascertain whether they are in agreement with such a course.

Another case came unclcr mv notice in which a local authority asked for a subsidy for some damage that had been ilonc to a road, and I founcl on investigation that one of the members of the c:onncil was earting the timber and he knew that that timber \vas being dragged oYer the l'o:ul ~ucl aero~;s the river by a tractor, then lcaclccl on his lorry, he ba1·ing the contl·act to cart timber for one of the X orthern sawmillers The attitude of this man \Yas that the Sub-Department of Porestry \voulcl repair the clamage. I know ns well as any other hon. member of this Committee that there is a tcnclen· y for the person who is carting from pri\·::ltc l~ncl to get on the Toad \vhcnevcr he can, not thinking of the damage he might be doing to it.

\Vhen \VC aTe dis(·ussi11g the gTanting of aiel to local authorit ics. we ha Ye to consider the damage that has lJccn done by the pTivate timber person also.

JUr. 11Iacdonald: You must bear in mind, also, that but for the construction of those roads by the local authoTities you could not harvest your timber. You contribute nothing to their construction, and nothing to their upkeep other than an ex-gratia payment, while the lawful lanu.holder is paying foT the lot.


TI1e SECRETARY }'OR PUBLIC LANDS: Each case that is brought before the nvtice of 'the department is investigated, and if it is thought that the department is in any way liable for damage done, or if it is deemed to be a fair thing to contribute to the roads, then a contribution b made. \Ve have even constructed bridges. In places where there were bridges suitable for ordinary vehicular traffic, we hm·e erected bridges, suit able for timber tmfiic, even though 1\e knew that in two or three years they would not be required. In the North a fair amount of money has been expended in the construction of bridges and roads to help local authorities.

I am not unmindful of the damage that is done, but I want to emphasise that in every case it is not the pigeon of the Sub-Department of J<'orestry. 'l'he example that I quoted, in which 60 per cent. of the timber loadc<1 at a given point wns Cro1Yn and 40 per cont. prh·ato timber, indicates that a considerable amount of damage •va~ being <lone to the roads in that area by private timher if that timber •vas carted during wet weather. However, hon. members may I'eSt assured that sympathetic consideration is given to every cnse, and whero it ea.n be sho1vn that the department is doing the damage than I think it is only reasonable that the department should make some contribution. But I am not unminclful of the fact that there is a general tendency to try to unload everything on the Government. \Ye know that in many cnses, despite the fact that they haYe co-opemtcd in many other ways, loca1 authorities have undertaken many developmental schemes for road ,;-orks. an(1 haYe asked us to wipe this and that off after a number of years, disregarding the fact thnt owing to the impro•ved roa.d access the landholder has made a conside1·able saving by way of lower cost of prorlnction in the transport of commodities to market, lower wear and tear on vehicles, and all other thingS! a·ssociated with the development of his property.

In many cnses local authorities hm-e gone too far on their o•Yn nccount The instance cited by the hon. member for Cook, in ·which selectors ''"ere paying J Os. an acre in rates, is not altogether unusual. I have similar cases in my own electorate. Men arc paying up to J Os. an acre in rates to loc.al authorities on small blocks of land owing to their ]Jroximity to citie.s. I can assure hon. members that we do not desire to embarrass councils with Tegnrd to roa'd problems, and I repoa t that every ea e submitted for investi&'ation will receive favourable consideration and adYances will be made available if the circnnlSitances warrant.

lUr. BARNES (Bundaberg) (4.26 p.m.): I agree with the Minister tha't if you say a thing ·O·ften enough the people will begin to believe it. IV e have been saying all our lives that our financial system is right and ,,-e believe in it.

lUr. Jesson: We are talking about land matters.

:\fr. BARNES: I realise that when I bring up the question of financing such scllemcs by the use of national credit hon. members of this Committee become bored. It bores me when I listen to schemes that have to be financed by taxation. I say it is a physic·al impossibility to finance them that way, and if the hon. member who interjects---

The TElUPORART CHAIR1UAN: Order! Will the hon. member kindly address the Chair? ·

lUr. BAJ~NES: I say that it is an impossibility to go on deceh·ing om· .elves and ''kidding'' ourselves that we can do these things, because we cannot. Gm~cnunents haYe been trying to do these things for years, but of what nvail? We haw been telling these pretty stories for yean. a'nd years, but where hHe they got us·? Much has been said about Pstablishing S"eonclary inrlustries in Queensland but, after all, that is a matter requiring money. I make the suggestion thnt we use m: t ional credit to finance--

'!'he T~E;liPOIURY CHAUUrAN: Order! Will the hou. member presently get to tllc· vote?

Jir. BARNES: It is taking money to do these things.

~U:r. Jesson: Talk about irrigation and forestry.

Mr. BAUNES: But it all comes back to the same thing. I a·gree with many of the statements made by hon. members who have spoken about irrigation, but whore are we going to get the monr·y with which to do these things~ The Secretary for Public Lands said that Queensland had a vast area, and in fact it wa·s so vast that we could not pussibly eliminate all our noxious weeds. It would be only waste of time tackling this qucs,tion if we clid not deal with the whole of Queensland. \Ve know that our riv~rs bring down the seed of noogoora burr fo1· hundreds of miles. Wbat is the use of our doing a piffiing job here and there9 There is as much noogoora burr to·-day as e.-er there was. When this Committee admits that we cannot do a job I think it is a sa'd outlook for Queensland; unless we tackle a job :.111<1

do it thoroughly '\ve are only wasting time. \Ve have not the money to send inspectors tln·oughout Queensland. Queensland is a vast area and I know thnt we cannot afford to pay the income tax to ena'ble tl1is to be clone. T have no illusions about it. Let us use a little common sense and think along otl1o lines. If ,..e adopt other methods we might. be able to clean up the noogoora burr an<1 other pests of Queensland. Where did Hitler get the £.5,000,000,000 for the ''"ar Y \Ve arc not actually at war in Australia, hut supposing the British Empire ;vas not engaged in war to-day--

Tlw TElUPOR.ARY CHAIR.lUAN: Order! Will the hon. member kindly rcsnme his scat? I haYe been trying to discoYcr when he is going to connect his remarks with the vote before the Committee. He hns been given a .!!reat deal of latitude. I ask him to obov tlH' Chair. "

Petrol Consumption, &c., Cars. [8 OCTOBER.]

.!Ur. BARNES: Am I out of order in trying to show the Committee where we can get the money to finance this work?

Tile TEMPORARY CHAIR~IAN: The hon. member will be out of order unless he can connect his remarks with the vote before the Committee.

Mr. BARNES: The Government can find the finance for themselves from now on. (La.ughter.) We are not doing one-tenth of the research work that should be done. I'Vhere we are spending, say, £100 on resea·r·ch work we should increase it to £1,000 and thus cope >vith all menace and disease. Disease is rampant throughout the country and ·Only because we have not 1the money to eliminate it. Therefore I .suggest to tl1e Govermnent that they improve on their present scheme by increasing the amount of research work that is being done, not only in relation to noxious \Yeeds, but in all dther respects, too.

(Time expired.)

Progress reported.

The House adjourned at 4.33 p.m.

Personal Explanations. 629

legislative assembly hansard 1941 - parliament.qld.gov.au

Documents