Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 11 SEPTEMBER 1913

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

[ll SEPTEJ\1BER.] Supply. 1235

THURSDAY, 11 SErTE){BER, 1913.

The SPEAKER (Eon. \V. D. Armstrong, Lockyr r) took the chair at half-p<nt 3 o'clock.

PAPERS.

The follo»-ing paper v. as laid on the table-

Tie! arn to an Order oi Hw Hcpsc a"'reed to on ; he r:1otion of ::\1.:.'. GL'\.x~, on 27th Au0u't, shc-·,·inc--

1. :C\a,uo .. of lea'·-·s the o"·1 .. ers of T:hieh ha\ ·3 L~: •ived notice of r-esun1ption and .a ret in each ca <8.

2. nc ~tunptions ~,\ hi{. 1.l are no-,: in pro~

gross. 3. Areas that will h thrown o••en this

;) ·2::1r, giving p~1rticular .:;;. ·

ThB following pap• rs, laid on the table, were ocdored to be printed:-

n, port upon the \'.OJ king of tho Queens­land GoY~'rnn1( ·1~. SaYi~1gs Bank for the yc u encler1 30th Juno, 1913.

H•r:>rt oi the Commissioner for Railways for the }ear ended 30th June, 1913.

QUESTIONS.

EXGINE-DRIVERS' QUALIFICATIOKS.

Mr. ADAMSO::---J (Rockhampton) asked the Secr,•ury for Railwa' s-

" 1. Has the Commi-·ion<•r, smce the ::-.Iurphy's Creek accident, i.-sued a­genoral order t~1at eno·ine-drivers lUU't sign a declaration that they know the portions of the railroad ove1; ·;rhich they are ealled to run train<· ?

" 2. If they refuse to do this, has he ordered that they are to be disrcde•l to the grade of firemen until they have learned the road?

'' 3. As this i- being done in the Cen­tral divi,ion, is it also L-einrr carried out on the railroads in the ~orthern and Southern diYisions ?"

Thr· SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. W. T. Paget, Mackay) replied-

" 1. The Chief Mechanical Engineer has. w1th the concurrence of t1he Commio­sioner, is,ued an order to the effect that drivers must sign a declaration that thev know the sections of railway over which they are to work trains.

"2. ?\o; they are pa,id driv._··rs' wages, but must act as firemen until they know the road.

"3. Th-3 sam0 sy•,tem is in operation in a.ll divisions."

::\>IOTOR-BOA1G AT PILOT ST.\TIOXS.

Mr. LARCO:MBE (K cppe') asked Treasurer-­

the

" 1. How many pilot stations on the Queen•,] •nd coast are equipped with a Idotor-boat or mcclunically driven boat'!

"2. 'What stations aw not so equipped?"

The TREASL;RER (Hon. W. H. Barnes, (flu/ imD-t) rcplicc!-~

" 1. Eleven, viz.-B.• steam engine: Bri ·•bane, ;vim·yborough, Rockhampton, l\lackay, and Townsville. By oil engine: Glad,tonc, Bowen, Inni.fail, Cairns, Port Douglas, and Thursd;,y Island (nearing completion).

"2. Three, Yiz.-BuncL berg, Lucinda,. End Xorn1anton."

RAILWAY REVENGE RETURXS.

J\Ir. AD_DIE~OX ,.,ked thJ Secretary for RJilv.-a~',,, ''it! .. ni no~iu .. --

" \Yhy is it that, in tlw monthly re­turns sho" ing the receipts of the Rail­'\vay Dt:j_)artnlPnt, the incr·ea.so';; for the C>ntral division and the Southern divi­cion arc pTouned together? \\',hy should nof tho i:louthorn incrcac-e, the Central incr_asP, and tho ::\orthern inc1 •ase be ~ h0\1Tll '"''=-l-~nratoly ?"

The SECRETAR'7' FOR RAIL\YAYS replied-

" Like the hon. ''lember, my attention has be:·_'l drawn to the fact that the Chief Rai:,, ay Auditor, in pr.c.scnting 1his .usual 11-Jnthly report, ccnl'lcd the Southern and (\ ntral di: i ·ions to;;, ther this month. I will .a --k hirn to sc that in fut:ue these b· o divi'-ions rrre }d_-r,t "=-'D'F ttc'. 'Tbt")re is no rc<: son w~.:.y the:- shOuld not be."

:\h. ADUT'OX: The,nk you.

SUPPLY.

FIXANCIAL STATE}1ENT-RE\oU~1PT!Gl'f OF DEBATE lX COM){JTTEE.

(.1lr. J. Stotlart, Logan, in the chair.)

Qm·>tion-~That ewre be granted to His :\~ajesty, for tho ·:·Yice of the year 1913-14, a sun1 not L'XCCC<~ing £3C::J, to defray the saiary of aide-de-camp to His Ex:elbncy the C uye: nor~ag,ain stated.

Mr. FORSYTH (J:lurrumba): I think that the GoYormnent and the State of Queensland are to bo congTatulated upon the steady in­crease that has taken place in development during the last ten years. I purpose dealing later on with the ten-years' period, and I wish to show hov,- it is that Queensland has dm-doped during that time. Despite the criticism of the Labour party-which really, after all, is not critieism-tho p<lrt.r on this side are determined to carry on as they are doing now by developing this great State. The leader of uhe Oppo,ition practically gave us no criticism -at all of the Financial State­mont. I l•Jokcd through his speoeh iJhis morning, and I could not soc much in it. He c-ert<linl~- gave us a definition of what the Labour platform is, and \rhat it would do £or Queensland, but there is a time for th.1t. \\hat we wanted to get from the other side was sc,Ine g,_,nuine criticism-destructive criticism, if you like-but we have not got it so far, and I can only eompliment the Trco:surer-as I complimented him privately the other night-upon the fact that he has practical],- nothing to rvply to. The position of t•he Government is that they want to be honnt \Yith all parts of the community. They are not legislating for a class, but for all the people of Quc<,nsland.

:VIr. KIRWAN: \Yhv the formation of a new ;lorty, if that is true?

M1'. Fo'?syth.]

1286 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

::llr. FORSYTH : The varwus Govern­ments that have held office for a goo<l many years past have shown that ~ ven tJhe con­stituc·ncies represented by Labour have ha<l .a fair share of the money expended both from Joan an<l rev.enue.

:\1r. FOLEY: Why shouldn't they 1 An OPPOSITION :YlE}fBER : That IS not

oorrect.

:,fr. FORSYTH : The question has been look<ed at from a parochial point of view, but we on this side wish to loDk at it from a national point of view. \Ve are not hr,re in th•; intf're,is of a clacc>, but in the interests of the whole pea,>le. · Th0 leader af the Opposition referred again to the ol<l worn­out cry about the Auditor-General's report about the £70,000 in conmdion with the University. We ha.ve had that discussed again and again, and ·what is the gaod of discussing it any more' There is nothing in it. The hon. gentleman also statDd that he would like to go back to the old system which wa:J in vogue some years ago of debiting all accounts out ·tanding at the end of Juw_o to the following year. I do not think that a commercial man would do any­thing of the sort. A business man who makes up a balance-sheet at the end of tlw year doc:, not say, "Because I o\ve Tom, Dick, and Harry so much money, <md their ac­.counts are net in, I will -<imply wink at the fact and put it into next y-ear's balance­sheet."

::\lr. 11oCOR:\!ACK: He makes provi,ion for it.

Mr. FORSYTH : Most decidedlv he makes provision for it. \Ye like to be honest ,and straightforward, and the Government would be acting unwisely if they went back to the system Wlhich existed some years ago. We want the Government to give us an abso­lutely correct statement of our liabilities, and it would be wrong to go back to the old system. T,he leader of the Opposition said that he was going to give us ,a financial policy. I have looked in the Labour organ for that policy, but have not found it. The hon. gentleman stated that there was no financial policy in the Financial Statement read by the Treasurer. Well, everybody knows what our policy is. Everybody knows we want to develop Quc•Jnsland. v\'e want to build rail,.vays; we want tD settle people on the lund; we want to see more people here; and we want to fill u·) our waste spac~s. Th~t has bcc~n the policy, generally spm> ... 1ng. OL th,~ L1!;cral Goverrnnent for years. \Vhat is the policJ' of thn Labour party? Their policy is pr,<ctic t!l the same. The hon. rn- n1hcr "\\ants n1cre rUil-ways; he ':v€.r~ts 1noro. pt t)J_l~o, ar_,l really ;1e is sirnply takmg, as 1t \\(·rP, a leaf b·Jm the Liberal GJve1111ncr 1's policy, o far ns onr '\Vants ar<3 <-~ncernLl1. Tho polic,:" oi tho Liberal Gove:-nment i to in 'Yerv '\Yn -, ist in 1mJdin·;s raihnt-: s, public "·,vo .. ks, and in 'ettJi .g ) PO lle OJ! tJF land to develop this great St;:Ltr. -a.Ed to g1 ve f·Ver""on.c--no n1ntter Y::ho h~ ma:y be----every. facility -t) carry on Jus bu d11C., "' and to ass1 t D.J:.d ent:ouraO"e all i:ho•o v.rho a.rP 1- illirg to assist ns. \Y~ ;~ 1,,0 want indnstri<• l peaC·3. \Ve have had too n1en;v uph.eavaJ·, _lat~·ly. One D ~, F knov;s wh, re he Is,< and If we could only get indus­tnal ne-:_ce m Queensland and in Australia for t.he next five years, it would be the nw.ans of devr-lnpinA our r.c-Rources much qmc·kcr. The hon. member also referred to

! i!ft·. Forsyth.

that oft-repeated question of the SaYings Dank-what fools we "·ere not to take the 75 per cent. and give the Federal Govern­ment 25 per c<mt. He told us that tho com­bined amount that had been collected from September till Mar<-h was something liko £50~,000, and out of that the Commonwealth had rec3iv< d £318,00.1 in their Savings Bank, while Qu<eensland had only received £2?6,0GJ. The"f'foro, if you add these two amounts together, Queer.•-:and would have re;,ped the benefit of no k,s a sum than £445,0GJ. It looks all ver:r weli on the face of it, but what we shouicl hav0 got in Queensland, if we had k>en left alone wi:h our State Sav­ing, Ban'c-~instead of g< tting £.)<:5,000 or instead of getting £276,00J, which we have got, ·-,, o sh<Juld have received the whole Jotr-·­namoly, £594,000; and if we had got that amount we would lHtve had more money to spend in tho development of the State and the carrying on of public works in the State. I notioe some roferenc0 has be< n made by the present Federal Government to the fact that there is a good deal of overlapping, and something would have to be done in oonnection with the Savings Dank so as to dispense with that overlapping as far as po"ible. I should like, in my humble way, to make a sng·gestion to the Federal Govern­ment-which I do not mppo·e they will accept-that the best pa,.".ible way to dis­pd!se with this ov<erlapping-which means extra expense in the working of the Yarions Savings Banks, vvhet}1er Federa.l or State­is to withdraw their Savings B"mks from the various States and allow the various States to work out their own salvation, in connec­tion with the Savings Banks, to the best of their ability. If they ,; ill do that, if they do nothing c:se, they will have done a good thing for Queensland and for the various States of Australia. The hon. member also talkc d about the differBnce lwtween the actual 0-.:penditure and the "'tirnated expenditure for the year. The same thing applin to any State. \Vhen any man makes up a balance­sheei, whether it is commercial or State, he simply gives an estimate of what he thinks hu is likely to get. But ofttimes our plans are upset.

" The best laid f( :wmes of mice and 1nen gang aft aglee."

And no rnattd· whether it is a co"1mercial man or the State Treasurer, it is utterly impo '"iblc for one man to accurately esti­mate revomw and expendiLre. My advice to our o;;,·n rna 1ag0r-I ahvays liko to give ~ood Edvicc--·I fay, "'1i,Yhcn you arc giving an ( stic11Je of nrofit and lo'd account .at the ·<" ::;irini:1~; ot ;:he year. be sure to under­r~:tit--"l::ttP -..vhut 3"JU H1ink your prcit is going to he, IJccatL" by doing th \t, if you happen to :,D out a little, you will have something up vonr s~f' ~ve in eonnection -,vith any con­tin,:, ncy th~t n1ay crop up." I ~;onla give thn T:~eacurn tl1o same <dvicP. If tho money <"'0 -' in. y, ell and go-_id, lT:t tho Treasure"r has ~.onle pull on N1c pc '-Si 1J1e an1onnt of 0X~H·nditure. I have no desire to see oxpendiM hu·p sLop It !11l:~ ... t go vn. but there is a time \Yhen (' 1ution is 1.-.;·.:tntcd, 11nd that is no~. ) wl:rn th:.: price of n1oncy is going up, and \VC ha·(o big comrnitr!1C11t~ ahead of us. The Go,·ernmont havo been fv.irly liberal .nnd have vi\ rn fair odvano all round in tho Yariou ~, departments. lYe cannot tell how much tJ110·~e advane"s amount to, hut t}J•y m~tst an1onnt to a larg·e .'1lBll during the ye "'r, and tho Govcrn~ne2·1t n1ust ho con1-

Supply. [ll SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1287

.xnended for it. They have dono a fair thing by tho whole body of public servants and have increased their salaries in a fair pro­portion. That is a thing I believe in. We believe tbat ('Von· man is <mtitlcd to a fair da::'s wage for their labour. I believe that ·;s -:1 good pTinciplo, and if v:·G can give the public servants a wa,ge, not only sufficient rto kr. l1 themselves. but, if possible, one that will allo>~· the thrifty people to lay by a little for a rainy day, it will be a good thing. T!nt is the proverbi ctl Scotch instinct, which I think is a goo-d principle. The ha-n. mem­ber told us that t•he real way to bring about financial shbility is to develop our r,•sources and )1opulab our country with the righ\ class <:>£ immigrants, and also to make land avail­able for settlement.

J'llr. RYA~: Don't you agree with that?

Mr. FORSYTH : Absolutely.

::Vfr. RYAX: I tho-ught so. There you are.

::Ylr. FORSYTH : Because that is Bxactly -our policy, and th<Jrefore, inst<Jad of the hon. member's spe·ech being a criticism of the policy of uhe Government, it is .a pure com­mendation.

::Mr. RYA~ : Kot at all.

Mr. FORSYTH : The hon. member is also very Ftrong in connection with the question Df land F<·ttlement-that there should be no alienation of land. I think everyone will agree with me that there appears to be an inherent instinct in almost everyone that they should get a piece of land that they oan call their very own. It appears to be an instinctive feeling in the breasts of every­one, and I think it would be a great mistake for any Government-Labour or otherwise­to bring in a policy that there should be no alienation of land. Everv working man who has got a sixteen perch allotment every Jarmer ";10 has got 160 acres of land, works ltard-there is no eight hours a day for him -he works from morning till night, and his one ambition and one incentive is to endea­vour to get rid of any liability .attaching t<J that freehold, so that when he " shuffles off this mortal coil," he can leave to his widow and family something- tangible. That ~s a wise ambition, and I hope that the present polio:;· in that direction will not be departed from. The hon. mombc:r also stated that v.e have been in power for years an,1 yet we still have this vast territory unsettled. If an\ bod,_. thinks-no matte'r ,~·h.1t G·JYernrnc-·:1t ~is in. pc ·I er~th~t thr·y are able to sc ttle thi" vaPt tnrritorv as it should be se:·tlPd in such a short spac,;' of time, they ar3 rnaking a very grave r,1istake. It is practicc • .!l:v beyond tho )lO\Yer of any human be. ill g. You c::tnrot sot ,:.:z~ Austrn iia or -Qued1s:a,,d in fiYB years or twenty years. It i, dow "'rocess, but d th,~ s,tmo time we "\\ tv do I! :~~ Ciuickly as pD si1"'1c, so that t~1e- .~ spa c.:-) lying it:lo Cl"1 be u~ili~ :d in BYery I' .ay. Th;(~' ~Ern mod up, is the poliny Df the lt ad<'r of the Opi}C'·,ition. I 8ny the Trea···n·or Fhould c~-ngratnlat~ ~1iLl' 3lf up·_n the splentLd critici'.m that C'll11€ from the 1 ~der of th. Opposition.

~\Ir. RYA~T: At first :-·ou said there "\vas no Cl'~t~c~· rr1, and no"\v you say it is a splendid .cnhc1sn1.

:1Ir. FORSYTH : In tcad of it b'·ing· a criticisEl, jt is an a~:.olute C'on1mendativn. The deputy leader of the Opposition also spoke on this fllH· ,;tlon. II a rnad0 a s-reat fn ., with regard to tho 3 per cent. prrn1i>

that were made by people at the last general okction. I do not remember seeing one single paper stating that if the Liberal Go­vernlnent \Vcre returned, "\YC vvcrc going to get tho loans renewed at 3 per cent.

J\ilr. THEODORE : They did say so. The PREli1IER: Absolutely, no.

~lr. FORSYTH: If they did say so, it was only an irresponsible statement by someone who roaiiy could not hav<J justified it. Two or three year:::; o.go we v;ero getting our loans on the basis of 3! pet cont. I remember the occasion ,\-hen wo "\Yero discussing th"J ques­tion of the loans falling duo in 1915, and I stated then, on the deb,cte on the Financial State1nent, that if we could renew our loans which were falling due in 1915 at 3! per cm,t., the ~ per c •. nt. which would be saved would mean a saving of £60,uCJ a year to Queensland. \Ve would have been g-lad to have had that advantage, but you can never tell what the state of tho money market is going to bo. Some people think that because a debenture may be lOs. higher or lower, as the case may be, it indicates the belief of the investors in the policy of the country. \Vhat we have to consider in Queensland is not the manipulations of the market-whether it rises or falls-as it will always rise and fall; it depends entir·ely upon when the interest is payable. You might see a certain quotation one week, and next week the stock might fall by £2, because half-yearly interest might not have been paid in 1a con­cern for some years. \Vhat people look to is the actual stability of the particular State or people that they are ach,ancing 1non0y to.

Mr. RYAN: Hear, hear!

Mr. FORSY'l'H: \Ve have an enormous amount of private wealth in Australia, alto­g-ether apart from the wealth of the States. I forget the figures· which were g-iYcn by l\,1r. Coghlan some few years ago-! do not think we have them in the books now, as I have made very careful searrh and cannot find them-but, .speaking from memory, the private wealth of the people of Australia runs to £1,200,0GO,LJO or £1,400,000,000, and }1r. Coghlan ;howed ho·.-.- it was made up. It comprised property, n1achinery, furniture, and all kinds of things. Therefore, when you realise the amount of private wealth, and the Stv.to wealth also, yc u can form your own idea. People advancing money to a place like _,\t,tralia must bo ntisfied that the sccurit.) is correct, bccau::.e the Govern­ment cJ.n dra'v bv taxation upon th·:se various sour:'es of ,: c.'1lth, as they are doing­at tho pre.-ent time. \Yo have a groat re­vc:Iuc in Australia at thn present tinu:-, i~l­c~'lding Con1n1onwc,·,1th reY,·nue-I an1 spc\k­inq of the consolidt . .ted rovc:1ur) not of the loan fnn<l-of SOlllC;-hing Eko £60,(.:'~ J, noo, 1, ith ponnlaticn of -, )111ef1ing under 5,000,000. ~''o·,:, in Grc,ct Britain, that we haYo heard so 1nuch ,.'l'·1ll~, whur tho,.. Lave

rl Y8'1ll0 of £200, OJO, CD~, they have nine tjn"··-. tho vonul1:~1·)n that \Ve h.:Yc got, and if thcv \Yerc~ to raise tho revenue upon the s;-HEG "basis as ours, the:•.r ~,auld have a reveccue of L-· iC\Yocn £400.000,000 and £500,00J.O?O., I

1 s"y tlwt !::e ,monpy is here;

th0 v;c dtn IS 1y1ng latent- 1n 1.11any l..:tses, rnd wo want to c::drtJ...t,~ it frou1 tl1e earth in c'.-cr"; po:siblD wny, and these the thin~'S ··,vhich people who advance money look to in connection with tht-se matters. There is one ihing which i,_absohtt-"1:;- certain: th_at no State in Australia-no matter what rts financial position may be-has been able" to

Mr. Forsyth.]

Supply, [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

float loans at. a lower rate than we have; and wh:,· i" that so~ It is beau·" the law of supply and demand in connection with fin·tnCP HVlJlie:-; to thl'tn just the Si1J,lp US

",nyouc else. London is tb~ hub of the world financially, .and if thno is a grca t de mane! for money from all parts of the world, if th~re is any limit to that supply, tho only thrng that can h:~ppcn-._~nd that n1oro es;·ecially in conrwctioD with gilt·cdgod ,tot ks -is that the rate of inter'''t will go up. Look at the enormous mms .,, hit h go to Canada .c,nd South America! 'J'hen thcl'o have bern huGe SU1YS sp(nt in the Balkan ·,;·ar -I think i: is e.~titnated to be .'JJhlCthing like £245,000,000-that ha bcm throY:n away in pov. d<:~r and Phv!. .All that n10n( c is Tone, and the lJE-"ple have t·) con1e to tho nr:n~~:;­markct, and will have to pay higher rat< ;, Our i-tocks stnnd as high a ... anJ, and dLuin;J the h•st h:olve months the dcprcciatio;1 in Australian ctooks has b'en lcs. than in Hw caso of any other conntr~". That i - ayiLg a c-re,·t deal for Anstrali ,, :·o' \YO ha. e h.._ld a ce11ain an1ount c~ donrcciation. r:1d \VO can onl,, ge)L rnf:··ey in Lo~HlO.:.l by giYi'-lg the ctuTc·nt rate. Ple~1i \" ol p •op:o get 6 or 7 PC'"- cent. for tlLlr 11lOIH'J. \\'L n :" ou eo-n,­down to gilt-edged s:ocks, I think Australia stands Yer.· ''-ell. Tho loader of the Oppc,i­tion also talked about the Stai -; ru-hing to London £0r rnonoy, that C'Y"'ryone ,,vas hr(':lk­in~· their llE 1rs to get then', and that thr(. no doubt, haR been the n1•-ans of raibing the interest. I <:nn afraid the hon. [:.' ,~l \"ln:nan docs 1.ot undm_stancl tho hu?'e n1anipulations in conn0"ticn '"i+h loa11 moncv in C-iroat Ilrihin. T;,, £2J.OOO,OOO or £30.000.000 ap. plied for during the last twolw moni11' hom Australia i:J a simple drop in tlw lnckct in comparison with tho total "HJOtmt lent.

Mr. THEODORE: Th: hon. gen:Cleman \vas quotin;: from tho ""\go."

Mr. FORS'c TH: I do not care ''hat he was quoting from, but I do not thin~c he r-c,;d he was quotinf from the ''Age."

Mr. LENNON: I did.

:\Ir. FORSYTH: \Vhat surprises me is, that in epitc of the demand for money frJm China and otht'r parts 0!' the world, we wore able to get no less tha•1 £lJ.5CO,OOO last yc,u. All the loans that are falling due in 1915 are 4 per c,ont. loans. and we shall b.' lucky if we get the mon,··.' al a rate of from 3 pc'i: cent. to 4 ~ per cc,;t., and I hone we shall gt•t it. 'rhore is one thing in- <<)nnoction with tlH' st:ltPmc nt about tho breakm•ck spe.•d tlwt I do not like-and I haw had occasion to c•'iticisc the statements modo bv han. members opposite before-the han. morrt· l.~r said that wo "'~"- e:·e going in great haste to London to grt money from the J ow:.

l\lr. LENNON: It vas a quobtion from tho "Age."

:".h. FORSYTH: If it had not boon for the IJ<'Ol11e in London, who h-,d adyanecd Anstra lia >>1mething like £277.000.000 to the end of la·.t yc:n-if it had ·not heen for those J, ws that our friends oppoeite talk about adv~mcing th<;t money to the people of Auctraha. vor.'.· httlc drvelonmc •1t '' ould b ,tYf' tak0n plac '; and instead 0£ thf'~(l n1en

boing oallod .Jt\\·s a,]'d pawnLrokors, and ali sorh of nan1f ::~--

2\rr. RYA.x: Th0 Pren1i0r said to ch":nge th2 n .• :•1u from John Bull to Cohen.

Mr. FORSYTH: I do not care what h" •;1id. I <ty the people of Australia ,-hould hE' delighted to think that the:v have been able to got such hu~o sums of money during

IJ!r. Fnrs?fth,

all these years hom thos'' people in London, and not on!:· that, but they have boon gettmg it at au excl'ptionally lo v rale. Fancy g,_;-_ ting rnoney forty years ag;) a~ 4 per cent., which \vas thu rate then ! :::~on1c people were l'·'Y;ng double that rate.

Tho SEC'nET'RY FOR H.'.ILW\YS: Peo.,Jo ,.ere )ltying 10 per cent.

=·'r. FORSYTH: Inst( .cd of calling th~.'.o lH?O}Jle in 1.,.·-:-ndon na,,tv narnr. , \VO should thank thr-n1 for tho wa::~ th:y ha\·l~ suppurt _d us. I think tho han. member for Chillagoe c_c•icl that '' ,, lwd tho big~·est delL, with the : x-, .. 'plion o~ ou Stctte, in tho ·.dwlc of Alh­

tralia, on a population basis. ~, J:r. THEODo..._ . ..;_-:;: 1.,hat is '<1.

_2,lr. FORS ,~TI-l : I acl ,·ise th,-- hon. gcntlc­lUUll to loo~:: un tho .. }_._ustralian Y!~nr-Look,"

80J. Th(, 1i;;;·ures are: (Jueen~hu_;d, .';74 ; Stuth ~\n"tralia, £';.;. 5:-:.; and \Vt -<torn

.~u.~trnlia, £:36 18eo. 3d. Kow, the o ar.c thir:gs that a~c not worth ~,~1;;:ir~g

[4 p.rn.] notlLO of. Ir v J are go1ng '"-) c~·-\V( ~JP Queen;;;;]and~ and _ius­

tralia id go~n~r :0 de\·elop as 1t sbJuld be doYcloped, then v,·c n1u-.t get n1ore loan IuonPv; and, unl\_·'-s \to in( rca:-.·:" our popula~ tion ~}nd bring down the a,, cragc per head, t!Pn the lo .. n c cpendiiure must go up. Thoro is no got away from it.

),Ir. LE~xo:;;: That is a truism.

Mr. FORSYTH: It is a truism. If we \ ero able to '.Y ct an increa -;e in our popula­ti(•n of anotli<e>r 50,000 or 100,000 people, and then struc;, an average over the extra number of poopL,, it \Yould recL.ce our in­debtcdnHs per h3ad a good deal. "\nyone can see that. I c mnc nov." to the Esl"i.matc\s. I list,cnPd attentiYely to all the speeches dc;liverod by meLber, on . the other side, and I rnust cornnlitnent the hon. mornbor foe Rockha1nn1 )ll o:ri the n1o:::t intr:re9ting speech which h,·' delivered. There is a great deal of food for thoug-ht in v;hat he has given us ·iu his ~P'' ch. I will say this of the hon _ g-entkman. althoud1 he sits on the side of the House oppoSite to me, that I redly think that he displayed a great deal of re· seard1; and, 'vhile I L.lnnot agree with hin1 in everything he Fay··! still I ~ay he delivered a.. rno.:t intercGtinp; spqJ~h, and one well '' orthv· of con idPration. (Hear, hear!) Coming to the Estimates, v:o hope this yoar to increase o;u revonuc bv £420,000. The qw_-~ im1 for U· to con·idrr~is: ..t\re 11p lik(·ly to get it? I think W(' can arrive at a fair conclusion as !. o what we will get by 1·1 hat we got in the years gono by, whic~ w~ro very 1nuch the sam-e as \ve are cxpenenCing now. \Yo arc having good seasons. Provi~ den'-'·0 hao been g·ood to u '· \V e will not say that it is ;;w <~ood Government, but the good 81' asou.:.: '~"~ hich are the c::tuse of our prosperity. v;, do not c:tro who gets the cH'tlit for it s.:J lm g a' Queensland is pros­percoth If QL!l!eLsland io likely to continue to pro;prr, we do not cue v:ho gets the cTCl(it for it. I just had a curr:o17 glance at the E,;imate , and I really believe from ,·,hat I ha\ ·' seen that there is nothing un­n .tS.mahle in the amounts put down by tho Trecsuror, and he is li:wly to get what he esti:na+ -,. I have nci got much tin1e te­fmioh uy speech.

~·tr. RYAN: \Ye >viii <;ivo yo·~ an exten-· sion.

Mr. FORSYTH : I d,J not want an cxten­f·:on. I '"cant i-0 FHV a word or two al10ut the dcvek ,mJCnt that l;as taken place in Queens-

Supply. [ ll SEPTEMBER.] Supply. l2EG

lanJ in the last ten ;:<',ns. Look at the renn·w received from land ! The land revenue which ''as received from :cclc< •i{)]lS

in 1903-4-tcn 0 cars ag·e-was £196,COO. La:!, vear diC revenue 1 'ccived frorn sclfc­tiou - amouru-·d to £3S7,0'JO. Just f mcy that increa· - in tlF r, nt recciv!xl frmn tha-1-;:.·Jurc~' J The anlOUEt -.l'[lS ach:;:tlly c~ouhlcd. in te-n years. It would be quite natural to suppc c· that, ~cring tha\ such a ttrgo an1ounL of land "\Yfl taken a\vay fron-· the pas;·or aJ lea -.es and turned into selc-:tions, the rp~rfg frmn the rw-· toral It '1SE'' "'·· oulJ sho,_-,.- a deere an} in like proportion; but, as a n1att···e of fat t, it is no such thing, as f"h amount of l···:ts ncei\cd fro.1 the pa.turd ](-.1 c' k '" :ear ,,-a · jm.: about the n '·­it '""s t _n ~,c-Jrs ago. Yi~t, \V0 have th t. hu<,_' i1. asc in r~·lr;ctions, \Yhc-J·o the },,, d v,U'l openPcl in s1naller areas, nnd thP r .. 1 ) roe' ic,d from th< m weu doubled. It " a me-.' S<hisfa·' ln· fc duro to think of all the wonderful d<·:dopmcnt that has tak< n placo in t1lat tinE~. I co~1sidcr that our income tax re'-ur~ls al'(~ a fair guide to the IH0S­

pcri: ·: of ._t Rt -~:_2. In 19J3A tlH' returns fro1n in .. 'iw Lx amounted to £220,000, while t}j_; v< -r it is c-.timahd tha' no less than £ 12o:ocJ will be r{'ceiYcd from this smm·e, or nhnost double \vhat it \vas ten years ago. Smnr 1·poplc ,a,y, ·• 1;rhy not have a land tax~:" ·• \Ytv not rair2 extra rovenue by mc,,ne of a larHl tax?" I would point out to tho. - hon. ~,:: ntleruen who speak that way how i+ works oub in the different States. Que·:nslancl is raising infinitely n1ore rnoneJ per head of the population from income tax than the other States are raising from in­couw ta ..-, land tax. and dividend tax com­bin,'d. If you -,··ork it out on a population basi,,, von v ill see that we are Ftill ahead of Xt :_'" South ·wale•,;, Vict,)ria, and the other Stat••;. In Xew South \Vales the in­c )ll10 tJ.x, diYidC'nd tax, and land tax c '1111-

bin· ;J for Ia year amoun'ed to .f.:651,C"0; in Victoria, the income to.x, dividend tax, and lan<l tax combined amountPd to £737,0'0 last vcar; a'1d in Qnccnsland the income tax last year amounted to £374,000. If ~YOU :::nnltiply th·1t figure by hro ~!}-d a-h~lf time·'· >Yhich is the extent of the v w­torian popula:ion over that of Quecn_,]and, or if vou multiplv it b:· three times, so far as :r\('~J South \Vfllef) jS concerned, you 1vill be a!Jlo \o sec at a glance that ·;;·c pay more per !wad by way of income tax than thfr other i:ltatcs pay for all three ta,:cs com binc:l. 1\cw South \Vaks rai"ed £651,000, and Queensland £372.000, more than half the Xnv South \Vale' amount, yet New South \Val-"l has a population three times thot of Quer 'leland. E,-en in South Aus­tnt!ia tho lancl tax onlv amount<'d to £325,000, and in Western Australia the in­COl:W t:>x amo•·nh•d to 3210~,000, and the land l.tx to £~3,000. \Vhv do thev not get more from thPir land t '";, in \Ve,;tern Aus­tralia? \Vo know that last veal' Xcw Sc .,th \Yalcs had a huge dPficit o( £1,610.000 and \Vht•:,rn Auctrali a deficit of £200,000. The tY o States ,, hich are contro!kd by the Labour partv had deficits--one ef them a huge drd\cit_.::-ancl all the State., controlled hv LibcralR Bhowc cl n surplus. I am not s3.vinf" that Li~Jf'ral GovPrnments do not gt 1, d0ficits ;~t all, but there 1vas no ( "{C'nse last vcar, ~o far :ts t1lo sPa ons \_-.:'ere con­cerne-d. as we had had f;Ood ocasor:.i all over Amtralia, and yet in the two Stntes con­trolled by Labour they had deficits,

I\:'Ir. COYNE: Th0 P0asons '\Yore not good in ·western Australia.

:!.\h. FORSYTH : They aro ha,-inr· just as o-oo<l bC.t.' Jns in V" c~tE:rn Australia as an.~.-­~-hero else. I know that goldmining is o·oing do·;·n lmt they had a good season last ~"ar-anl g~od cro;l~, It is rather p_eculiar th,:t thn two States contcolled by tho Labour lL\' r1 y .- ho-,-;·cd big <J/fic3ts.

Mr. Hu:,T;.R: You will admit that tho reYOl'Sf' is the case so far as the Fedcrai La1Jo·n· Gc,-urninent ~~·ere ( oncorned?

~'lr. FOHS YTii : How can anyono com­narc 'ihe 1-'cd· .J Uon•rmlL:nt with the ;--. ,to GovenlnH ~1ts? \'P1o tlw people '' h') de,- lc~} the St ·t: Is tlY' Feder~.d C: JYP 'illlH-'1,? 2\o: it is the Govern-

Tho Ft.dcr.J GoYerrnnent only deal nrr:io1wJ 1na'~:-~'s, but JCwh nlaho::_·,~ as

the laud, rail-: 'U) an(1 aH the 2..: -~cCP" :trir:~ for tho of tl, 81. -tc -:,ro 1n i he h;u ' , of Sta · '' GoYd'miLllL. The burclPll of rc~pon.;,ibilitJ is on the St\tcs so far a~ (~C'Yclol'lnent is conc-erned. I know that th~ Fe 1~, .; GovcrnF•Cnt haYo their own ,pe~ial busin,•_s to attend to. They. gPt a <rood 1'(' ,-(':.lUC fl·orll Cn: torDS and r~:clSe .:J,nd f'rom tlH Po>" and Tclc;raph Department, and ihc": ha·, c to .:tt· nd to defence CJ well, bn' the)· ha,·a ~ ot plent:-' of moue.'"-, They ha YO a princ,;:oly rcycrlw , an1ountn; to £::'0,5C1,UOO. .

:;\{r, llnaL:t: They '·' c•re m debt three ye.:rs ago.

:\Ir. FORSYTH : Tlv • arc m a nice p Jsi­t: 0n now. \V e arc very g-lad to kno"· that thev nro in '"uch a nice~ positi"onJ and I hope it will long cvn"Linuo so. I can only say, "-'' the hon. member for Chillagoe says, that \vP are o-lad to nceivo the £1 5s. a head as w~ are lJica :cd to receive all that they can rh :_· U:". 1\0,'<, ~Fe COHlC to tho ra1hr.1ys. In 19~3-4 the railways showed a reYenue of £1,29\000. Last :·ear the revenue from rui!wa'.J was £3,31i:l,O~:J, ancl it is c-;timated that t'L,~ re\"'enuo fron1 railwa~,-s for next vear will anw mt t-J £3,651,000. In other ~·;o:·ds, our raihY<· ~"- revenue last year amounted to uore than dou)J!e ·cc hat it was in 1903-4. In fact. the revenue from all de­partments in Que< n bnd amount-ed last year to cloul h vrhat it \Ya8 ten ycarR ago. Then· is no get ai' ~:,~_from th1•t, and,I" thi;,k it is a n1arYellm~s tnrng to contclnlHa:..,c.

::\1r, CoY:o;E: 1903 we 1 just after the drought, and i~ is not a fair comparison.

:\Ir. FOHSYTH: I am dealing wich a tcn~vear lkriccL Xo douLt it as j11st tl_ftcr the "drought. I "IYaS pointing out n.o g·~~od position we are in now, and from tllat point of ,-icw I think we have dono re­mar~;ablv well. \V.,en we F<o that our revenne' has doul led in the raihvays and o' her cl cnartments, it sl10Y S nw WOndnrfu] dm·elo:m-icnt and the wo3.lth that this State has bCC'n enjoying. \~~ e do not anticipate r;etting much mor~ from the C'ommonwe_alth than c,c·e are gcttmg at the present time. The payrne:nh. \\C rec~iv~'d are basrd on a popubtion bas1s, and 1t !s only a matter of incrc~sing our populatwn to g-et more rC'venuc from tho Commonv ealth. I hope that we ,._ill increo '9 our population so that " , •,-.·ill (\c-o so much more from the Com­monweait:l at the rate of o£1 5s. per ho:.td.

:'\ :1·. LE:\":\"0~:: You arc a reg-ular Oliver T\vi--~ r: -king for rnore.

Mr. FOTISY'l'H: 'l'h.n we come to stamp duty. Tt · i :. YE'rY nt...certain indP0'l to ;;:n_y jn,l he:. _:lUL'h r"~ '.('lHl" Wt' \Yill 0('ri_Y0 fronl ~,anlp du•-~-. en 1 c~--; <::.()lll of thf-' nch pl~'ll

lrfr. Forsyth.].

i290 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

b<'longing to the Labo:1r party die and giYe us a windfall m the shape of stamp duty-(laughter)-I do not know whore we are going to get much revcmue from under that ho·:.ding this vear. You c.>nnot tell h?w such things a:l ~,tamp dut:;· are go1ng to turn out. I SPe tlw.t tiwre is a ~cm·plus, a very small surplus. Tho Troa­HlF•r has been Ehle to charn·e t'vo sums to rov''Duo tha~ ~nl;lally haye g~1.1e out of loa!!, an~ althongn 1~ 1s not a vc ry 1arge sum, st1ll tt IS '"' the nght s1de. Our ir.como tax is one of the vcty best indications of the pros­perity of our State, and I notice that the 'frc.l··.l!· r rrcrivecl £71,000 onn· his ostima•e last Y''ar. I hope that this yc:cr he· will get un?ther. £71J!;00 o' l!r his c~timate, be­cause tncre IS not any bc~·ter, nor :-..del', noi' more just tax :han the income tax-in \Yhich a n1a11 p1ys just according to th.r• ainount of rno•w~· he gets. But I do ll')t lPlim·o in having a land tax and v, diYil1cnd tax and otht'r taxes to raise more n1onrY. It is unfair. We do not want to tax our pcopl" an.Y more than ,,.e can possibly h,::lp, and so loug as v e Cdl carry on and still show a balanc,, at the end of the :~car, that i'l all that :ve _can expcc!. Our f"-:pendib1rc is increasing In ;ust about the saznc ratio as our reY(''tlne, and pcrso-lally I should like to see tho Trea­~u.._>_T, v1h2n he is arrm1'Ting wlL. ~ an1ount of 1t ,r.,,!J be speat, eml<>aYour to save what he c<:. '1, bcC":nls:J ii =,·ou Y\ ~nt to save you can SaYe. Tht'rc are lots of things o:1 vv·hich you can :::\.tVf', and I think 1>~ _hould b0 '·ec; c;re­fnl on this nuut-:-Pr. ~\t one tin;,~ \VC ~had a bh--1 tinv a~1d our r .. ihy·:'y reYc.nu fpll. \\Tlw.t happc~ned? It -~-\as our bi~:r·er"t ass:':'tanc.c and"' if i\ happPn0d .again 'e\Teryone kr.ow~ who, wou,d happen; 1t \Yould nwau a ddi jt_ -~on n1~-~,· l.-:- :-ure of thi~: that althol!eh ! ·· a t1n1e when the reY"nuo Increases you can in· erca•oo your expenditnrP, still when a tirnc­CO!nr-.s 'vhcn you g;__ 7 shorter runounts fron1 rcvPnuc-. : ·Jll r:xnnot ahvavs rr>duce '",·our 0xpendituro in tho same ratio. \YP haw" got to [!:1Y our interc•<t bill all t1w ,,,_me, \Yhcther \VO use the m.oncy or not, and \~'e haYe got to run our rail"'' ays.

:VIr. LExxox : The interest bill is over £2,000,000 now.

Mr. FORSYTH; Yes, it is a very largo ;mm ; I grant y_ou th>t. And I behove tho TJCC<tsurer 1s. domg ,wh':'t I snggc't-that hrJ will be c':'.uhous. Co1n1ng to the E.~timates, I nn1st say . that' so1ne of the dcpartEwnts shm\~ largo mere" 'cs. . Tho Horne Dqnrt" lt1en~, for In::,t.tncr, 13 Increa~ltlf to a verv ~arge extent. Of course, it is a lar ~ • spcna­Ing dLpcntnlt·~lt. I do not think, .~.·0\Vt \'Cl', that wo can grudg·' it T;erv Y:ell. I notice· that in 19~13-~. tl;- total a;~lClUH. sp -n.t 1~ £J2S,OOO, \Ylule laM :·c :tr 1t was £/22,0C·"­Xo\Y, that is a Ycr: bi!·' ir<.-.'rc , and ho\Y is i~ n~aclo np '? I will g-1ve the 1nai~1 itm;'e<, __ _ of l·YL-'SC yon ca~'no: go into (L'taiL-·. The amounG srwL~· o_l h· ~~ir;:ds has infL-, _•J f1·c 'l

£77.\·')') to i-152,0UO; the (1tnount 0~1 poli._e fro1n t:l.:C,OOO to £277,0r-J) just ch- u L~o; tho an1-n- for th~ S ~1-~0 children account fron1 £28,010 > o £5~.001. jnst clc -blc a;::ain; en 1n:c :mt~~ from £47.000 to £73.\'lO; on .e bori­ginals frmn £9.CfJ0 to £18,(;00, and ~J on. Th:, r, 1na\c e.p tho bnlk of the inrrc X ow, can \YC object i.o ihcm '! \Yr~ n1u, · ha""~ 0 onr police, w:.:. n1u:-.: a~ ~Ed to our f~·a:c child···en, ;;,nd ~ ,·e r.1ust giYo n1o1> - to hospi ~ls--all thc ':{~ thin.,~s arc ~ood" and \t.Dri.Ly objcc·ts. But -.':.hilO that, is trun, it is a hn~e :SU"~l of r1on0y g-oilH~ ont. and if the">~ arn :o be incr,·:-tsPd \vith such \Yonr~.·~rftll ·vpln,:It:.· we shall h-; YC to be cautious, be-

[Jtr. Forsyth.

cause 1\~e never know ·when a time of adver­sitY rnav come. There is one bright spot in" that department-the one spot of sunshine in the dark, so to speak. It is the fact thao the amount spent on outdoor relief has de­crc.Jscd durinrr those tnn years from £18,000 to £4,000. 'l'ha~t is a Yoi·:v good indic,.tion of tlw pro,perity of our peopl<'. It sho':;:s that thev arc better off than theY were; 1t shows 't;at we have not so man~~ i>Oor people amon;; us, and I hope that that state of thins:-s n1ay ahv:1ys exif:±-.

=·lr. Bov~·)L\.l\": The old-age pcn~-io1r, haYc relicYt:d it.

::'<Ir. FORSYTH; Then I thint we should notice that \Ye haYe bcL1n spenJing a large arnount ci rnoney on public buildings. In 1903-4, when tho j'vimgan and Ki,is:on Go­v..:.:·nnH .lis W>t.''re in po\Ycr ;:,uproncd by the Labour party, they spont only £31,000 on tha~ object. Xow "'" are spending £207,000 And in the ilYo Years that those Covf~rn­ments ·,,ere in pO\'C~>r-from 180:J-4 to 1S07-8-the,Y sp.ut only £220,000 from revnme on public buildings, while in the next flYC yc;,rs that th Liberal Governments have been 1n oHic,•, they have spen~ no less th:-tn £72--+,000 out of rc rcnuc, nearly £500,000 more than in tho similar period preceding under Gov(._'rnrnrnts under the central of Labour. T:10se Governments left the buildings in a b.; d way; they staved off every single shilling of expe'nditure they could, and when the Lihcrol Go'.~c,·mnPnt [;O+ into pow<>r, they sp.·nt thai_ '•Um on school buildings and on otlwr buildings that \Yere good for the State. In the 'ame war-1903-4-thc then Govern­ment Sjwnt £290,000 on education, and last year the' expenditure on tlw same objcd had risen to £487,000, and this ;.··ear we arc going to spend over £500,000. ::\ o one objects to that. because the be-st '' ay \VC LJ.n spPnd our n1oney is on giYing our chil?rcn a sound educ,1 tion. It costs t lwm nothmg to carry about with them, and I do not think that any vote i.':l p :~::~-?cl in this IIou'>" \Yith n1ore gltl.Uih.-·; on both '-.L -~ than the Education vote. \"\''" c \V'lllt to haYC' our rhildren the roughly equipped in owr;~ waY for the indw,trial war on which thev ent0r. and thoroughly pcsted up in ey( ,·:vi bing that science can give them. Tht·n in 1903-4, tho rail we,~ ,- 'POE!iturc -.ms £810,000, and last Y"'" 1t increased to £·2,148.000. It only shows th' wonderful natural development

·that h.~s hkPn pLtc;; in Queensland during the lo "t RCYrn Yf'ar:-:. No\;" \\ e LOD10 to the \YcnriL' ful tlCf',.)'nnt--loans. \Yc hav ~ heard vcr;:7 muc11 abou: it. P app, ars to nv:- to bo in a ry heal! 11' state at the prPr·, ni· ti1ne; ·, •' h-lYC '' t; )Od de ,J of mOJL7 in tn•l co±Iers fo~· Hc•xt ~-e.lr, and I U~l1 suf.) Y\'C shall bo ,·pr:: glad' if,~,!' can go on with cPr(a:n pro­pol:io::~:~ of public \Yorks: dc'·t'lopmen-:: \York, tncL'e e·TJCciall:v in r?ilv~·a:. 0. ,,:ithin thn nex;t h\'!_lYe rnontLs. I~ v·onld l''· a ca12111itY 1f

we h 'd ,o re•··cnch and stop. Thous..nd.s of n1en v. .n1Ll 1 ! thro\Yn ou~ of v '.., and I F~:,· th \\ e ,\onlcl go on RtC',~(~ ly, not rapi,j.l~:, i~j_ t:~),;·.dln~;· nlD11P:V in th<-s{· way. L ·.~*' ~·e· r 1,\'C ruised £6,5GV,OOO nf rnoney, 'nd I ' m c.nl_Y s:;y th:.t I lwpc we shall have t.h -, t~ · .ac lur!;;: in 1::!1:::. f. ,1d if w~ ha-..-o not to pD 1: morf~ ·,~ 1.1an \YC did thc.:.J, ":··-o ·1· 1l ?'{'t o.ii ... , :'1'-- v,·dl. T 11H' is one a~·cnullt J w1sh to ·k to t~.lP Trcn:;nrer about. .·r 1 ihut. i;; trust a•.'count. In 1909 it stood at £4::::5.~~'1, ~nd thi.:.J :VL·r it·, has jump:-~d np to £?.COO,OOO. This expenditure tannot go on un~ess 1•',f' chango our tactit s in som~ \Vay. It is true thrrt v c• are spending the money in good wa:, s, but it is trenching on tho public

Supply. (11 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1291

finances too much, and the only way to re­lieve it is to float money for that purpose. If tho expenditure is to go on in tho same ratio in the m•xt three years as has been observed in the last three ~ears, it 1ncans that it will swamp tho whole d the public finances, and therefore the onlv thing we < Jn do is to got money from loarl for specific purpocc·s to relieve this particular account. Of cour:se, we know that the money is going to a g·ood purpose. Our friends on the other side ,,-ill •. ,;;-me to that. \Ye spent on the Agricultural Bank, £ c56,CJO; on closer settle­ment, £693,000, and on harbours-that is, building all these' harbours, pulicularlv at Bri.c1Jam'-£421,0C0; on tho public ,: •. tate i1nproV-l'Illc nts, £103,000; and un v Jl+-urs' dwellings, £432,000. These amounh repre­sent a total of about £2,000,000. 'fho trust funds debit« are actually at £2,205,000, but thoro are some> c-redits which bring the figures down to those which I have given. As I hav·c· said, 've shouLl not haYC to allow thc''e funds to b:c such a drain on our public balances. The SaYings Bank has dono remark­ably well, and I am deli,.,ht,Jd to learn that, in .spite of opposition, wea were able last year to increase tho tot:tl amount of deposits bj £870.305, bringing the total deposits up to £8,213,116.

:' Ir. THEOD0''';: \Vhat opposition nrc you referring to-to priYate banks'!

Mr. FORSYTH: I am referring to the <lpposition of tho CommonwPalth Savings Ba.nk. That opposition should neYer have happcnc>d. Anyone who under>tands the A B U of the finances of Queensland must know that the Savings Bank funds are the stron<est financial bulwark anv 'freasurcr has -got. 'l\,·o-thirds of the 'vhok of tho monev deposited in the Savings Bank mu,t· be in­vested in GoYernment' debent111·es, and the lnla.nce. exct~pt such as i ~;. required for current husino,,, in further debentures. The more n1oncy y, P Cr:n g0t dPpositc,d in our SaYings Bank hy pcJp].; who have earned their money in Quecn-,land, the 11101'0 1nonev -.-.'i·e shall havA 1·1 deYclop the resource::) of t:neen•N1and.

}Ir. KIRWX~~: \Yhen the Opp{·'"'ition sugges­ted means of getting monev, the Treasurer would not list~n to them. '

::\Ir. FORSYTH: What money?

:\Ir. KIRWAN: Government Savin2;,; Bank rr.c,ney.

~lr. FOT-:.S'\_'l,lf: v,~n nre g,~tting rnore n1c.wy in tlH ;::;~lvin~-s Ra:lk.

::\Ir. }(I: \l ~\.X: 1,~~E' did not ?'Pt it nn:il the Co_nmon- ,-.-dth C: ~ ernn1ent ,;hoo:-;: tlH' Go­TC'l'llmcnt u:p.

~.,;1·. Fons:;~Trr: Tlw c~nunlJll·· ( dth Uo­Yf· ~~ll1\'nt shr>uhl 1 ·'1t haYe c~~~ll-::. h('fC ,,.ith H1 :r -~ ,-i:n~r~ ]L Ttk. Th,- ~ 1 ml'Pr:-_ of th0 .l.T'· r1 L • 1 C:oYPr~L_ c.1t k1,,)- Cwt the ~aYiiH!H Br _d\: ..: .F)lH'" · )f cnormon') :_ ·c·;:efit to <Jd'et~~-~-hrc '. l" ""'" ti: · the C:nY< !:5~J,( :J or :::...J .... O.OOO for pu1.1lic it th·· re for t hern, and '.·) Jon -:r ~ '> tht .,. nw w~: 6

ir n '· ··' '<:. ._ 'r l1v vr .1r \VP. rn-~t. ':ct rnO"~''C pl:1,lic fit frC_,,L thE' Sa Yin.{;;; B 111k. Is jt not a +ijng t~:at the pt ·Jplc '""~1o L_:vo ln-·.1(' IllOlln-~ jn C\t'('l'Ih~:-_r;d_ hv t!lPir thri1~. i:u]u ·r'-· t--~ou\1 put tlv:r ~i-~,yia.-·,;_ i11to· t 1H=> "';ate Sav'ings JJank, L·> t~~:--_+ it n1itv l1c uvcl in Qnoensland for :h0· l:c·ndit of t.h; pPcp~0 of Queenf land? 'I£, in~~t~.~ad c+ doino· that. they c1e;Jocit their e~viw in tlw Corn': mon~,~ f'J~th Ravi1·gs B.lnk, that n1cans a retardation of the dovclopmcnt of <iuee>nsland_

::\Ir. II eNTER : :More mane:/ can be got by the St,~te :::lavings Bank if tho Government increas.'J the n1::txirnum a1nount of d:..'posit on which they will allow interest.

:i\Ir. FOHSYTH : EYenone lmov:s that we W~Lnt r:1ore n1ouey, and thrct it is an ad\an­ta~··3 to hav-e the 8~tvi1Li _. Bank 1u.oLey, on 'shich \Y2 pay u \o',, rate of interest-only 3 per cont.~but it n1'1st be ren1ernbcred that tho interest is paid on <he a ,10unt to credit of current ace )Unt:J, and that you cannot g-et interest on current accounts in any trading bae1k.

:\lr. HrNTER: Why should you not allow la.1'g2r deposit,~ to bear intcro:.L ';

::\Ir. FOHSYTH: It \.ou~d be a verv nice thin; to dv if it could be done, but tl!erc is a certain amount of dan~·er in it, as the moneys depcc;ited in the Savings Bank are not fixed dcpoC.:t••. They are moneye deposited to credit of currGnt accouiJt, and 1nay be vvith­drawn at two or three davs" notice. I believe it is possible that a echu1re might be C\olved by which interest could be paid on larger amounts if it ns arranged that they should bo lodged as fixed deposit:; which could only bo withcha \Yn .after a certain tirne had elapsed. I notice' the.t the 'l'reasu,·cr esti­ran.tc'~" an increa'·B in our revenue for the cur­rent yLar, from several souru·>, to tho extent of £420,516. the principal increase being in the earning" of the railways. He expects an increase of £200,000 or £300,000 in the reY<mue from railways. Ts that anticipation likely to be realised? The only way to arriYe at a con­clusion on the matter is to look lmck and i!Cee what has happened in the past. I find that the incr0:tse in our railway revenue was £208,000 in 1910. £3~8.COO in .1911. £328,000 in 1912, and £220,000 in 1913. Thos0 figures show that. during th<' yc,ars specifiC>d. there has been a steady increase in railway reYenue, and it is possible that the Treasurer's e'.ti­mate for the current v<'ar will be reali,ed. The land revenue antieipatcd "ill. I am sure, he recPived, and the amount from taxation ;{Cn0rallv should rPach tho E's::im.ate, I no\v come to. the cjuestiou of cshhliqhing a sinking fur. 1. which is a Yery big question. Our frif'nds orro ite think that we ~honlrl have a R~nkin~;- fund. It is :1, mo:-.t rPmarkable thing­that. at oLe tin10, we had ''\hat ~,vas knovvn '" th,, pu; lie debt rc·duction fund. which ":as int;oc1uced lw what is cd!led a hi,;h rrory Govenn~1cnt. and tl:at., later on, a Go­ycrnnwd' untrolled by tll<' Labo:u party mo'ro:luccd f''·1. a.rr:endnHJnt of tho Aw3it .LI\..et of l!~··i, Y:hich in (-f:0- t did awav v•-ii h t.he r:<'strictions impo ,,d with respect to the public debt rcduc·tion fund. The mmwv paid into that fntH~ ··' rca11-.:~ paid in redu( t-inn of tho nat-in 11.l ·~s t~;~: c\•i'entnrt's 1' l1t u.nc1Pr tl at _\ct : ,,d the national hv thn

of t1eLt• · But

a.nd t.rar it up.

of the (·)HlH!L and

the cn1·'" ~.ion, ~ \ct

Q,.--. l'llE·,_•nt

of thP ;nb­a (le1H-~1-ture

~fr. R--J.::\: \., .. hy c1 :,,n't you point tln.t -out f1en?

=._ ORSYTIT: I did ILiut it ov+-; but I noin~~d it on1- ?.C~. that i< '\V}:1d,t

\Yr:-; dnne b~., a (~ovcrnmcnt- 'Tl~ oilPfl by t:,P, L[I..;.JJ'U : :n·h·. Our PxrK ·clitnre is in­cr::-•m:in .,. L.u v\.'11 ~.s our re,~r ~n1c. Of course, there nr0 itz-ms 'rhich ''-ccount for that in­Cl'L • .-".:.;c. The prir:cipal it_,_m~ are raihva;.~s, in

Mr. Forsyth.]

1292 Supply. [AS SEMEL Y.~ Supply.

which the incnase is about £100,000; in~erest on the public debt, in ·, hich there u an in(' reuse of B160 1000; ancl public instrtH ~ion, whi.:h ·· \o'.'' an inert-'-, .e of £37,r,;o; makin::; ~ totulof ;,:,30~,GJO. \Yhilo we only anti• ipah lllCru: an:r C. ir ra1hvav eXJ :uditu:. bv £100,CJ0, \'L~ hope. lthv+-· t~,c ( ·dra I'aih·-~tJ rev{:_··.:.u rl ·-:elY.-·J \UL aLL'~lnt ir) £3DO,GC·J. lf \~'e get ~n ext1·a £v0v,qvJ by spe1~Ui1Jg L 1 ·'-cldi­twnal £100,000, I thmk that !S wrv good bw:::nt ~.. ( '')n:>ing no\v to tbt subj ct ~f land S·~·t1~nLc nt, I do not. think \YC are t.l,,_ { · Jping our n · ;un as we sLoulcl. It is pleasing to know that tlw area of land un(1:_1r cultivation incrc.a~cd tJ : . .>4,000 acre~ la~t year, ~uringir:.~, up th< total area under cultiyation to 844,000 nc:re_., but I think the i"''!_fl'>- 'se in thi: dn~,:.c­ti""ln slnuld ]:e mkc' r ·pic!. '.re aro tcll<l that ~r;J;. yt:'al' the arc.a.. un~,-r art_ificial f;'l·~'~s.·s_ \NUS ~v5,363 , ~ r('S, \•!uch IS ,\n Incr< ~·:-.P of 3..1,188 ac.n J on ~he arua sown with artiiicial gra ~<:.'f!S the prcYious yv...,_r: hJ tl1at, nlto··etl!:•r, th:..: ar''.t under cul:i.-atic_n h.). iLcrC:u --eel bv O\C'-'-' 100.Lc0 acr. -;. So far that is .''Uti :acto(v, but the are<.•. u<Hior culti"\ aiion d-)C'S not l;t:ar a sat:_::fJe'_ory rdation to the total area. of grozing fnrn1s T. (Iich han~ L_-~d r;·i- n llp. bu~·ing the last fivo years no less than 8, 768 ~lgl'J'3Uttt~raL f~nu"- ~-.,~re tal~c·n up. a.~)g>.·,--_·Jting m r~'\ ,·,1 19,. 100 acr• II hat 11 ' been done with tl~at land 1 If only 20 per r ,,nt. of that lanrl-tnat IS, 4 per Cl'nt. p;r anrum-h.cd b(en put Uild0r cultivat:")ll, that l_·-oulcl lu.\o me::mt ·Il:ivating bct·"ecn 600,0CO and 700.000 aces. The people v.ho sPlect.•d tLat l.md hHY(' t 1 p::ty intcrQst and r~_,·1r~nlption on the purd;,,sing price. \Yhv is it not cuLivat,,d? rJ'hey a_ro1 .~inJply usini; it for dairyin:; pur~ pos<~'·., f <'lll'VIng that th~~ 1and can be n1oro profit a '.•ly utili· d. in that, way tbar; by putting It undP;' cult nat10n. 1\ .p or•rbl!llV han not th;, El' a of land unrk•· eultiYation that we should have iu Qw.!Pnsh-1.nd. I am .::.ure ''lO

are all glad that at last a chango is taking pla~c, and I horo it "ill wntwue. Taking 1t all n-,uLd, tlw Slate is in a. Ylrv .tl:;f~ctor\T (.'1Jllt1iti'1n .. aiHl cur fina11.Ces ~ire pr-~':ectlV ~_;.ounr1. I lOlt: r\l( n1bcrs who have spJkPn ol1 the other side haYo ''"Jlres,,;,c] the opinion tlJtt th~'re l" lJ) coL uniiDn in anv P&rliament

in Ansh·aha. and it' i; gr'nerally [4.30 p.m.] admitted tL:t everv Government

is doiiifi it, level·· h<"·,t for the country it r~ Pff-=''"_nns. It is no casv task to be a priv:d e nwm :H'r, even though~ v e I! avo not the _resJ;OilF::iLility of n1anag-ing th€' affairs of tlw ~tate; but it lll 1 ? ·t l'e a grPat Vi orry and c~~us-- a gr<>at deal o£ anxiph~ to tb,:-- Uo-Yernrncr ancl the Trt<tsurer be-< au~c thcv do no{ ho-·~· thin_;_:·s are going to t.urn out. m?l"C "'"P' ciall;>- with the big· loanR that arc fallmg <l;;r. It must be rememhc ,·cd that, no nwmbPr of this House had anvthing- tD do with raising tho particular loans which are fulling due in 1915; but we han• io mak<> arran,..:crnnuts for thcrrr, a.nd I bcliPve WC' r.Lall be able~ to arrangp for tlH•m all right. Th'J countr)- is progressing, and, if we have a few n:oro ~~ood fleasons, \YC .c:ha~l g('t f''VPr our cl~ffim~Jt1~-~: and a ~oo·: as \T.h:' gPt ri-1 of thiR big- liability, I lwhn·e the State will 0:'' on pro[~rf·.-siiP' P ·· it hcs bL-''n doin:r. I sirH nr 'ly tru;:t tha~ \YO ar.P. on the 0v,, o{ pood se.~.sonR, that all rndu'-trH1 S ar~tl all n-- Y;:'le Inav pro~ gT(:· ~:L th:1t "~lD countrv ''Ti~~ F: prv,r)r~rOlB, nnd. th;d- \Ve r:: li' ·' t'o .eth- r ~. hr 'py, r__,on­tented, and p:·, 'P<'ro'·,q people.

HOKOURAFLR :\lnrK 'lS: Hn~r, hear! Mr. DO(~C:LAfl (r'nok): :1\ot hnYiuQ· had

ihe oppor7- .n~it~·' -nf :;;qealdnoz on the ~\ddrC's;:; 1n n{'~ly, ~ wou:rl like to h'-" this opportunity Of 111alnng ~·: ft"'~'.\T [''(_">!](ITUl l'('lllark:-; in the

[ilfr. For 7 yth.

courc- \ of the discussion on tho E inancial ;:)iaterncllt. TLo Uovernrnont arc tD be con­gratulated on bei11,, able to sh-o'\. tl.J,,t rovenuu dld e_:r IH.Iiturc jc ... t ahout n1, t. It v ·~,-;con~ cidnc !, at one !i'"lc, a very ,JJlc rncth.;d of fi11a1 ciug if the Tr. d '-·urer v.'a:s a' lc to shoY. a bi:; ihumpin_s- ;-urphu. On cn1e occ; ···ion, when l\h~. J~i l LOll wns Trca,'-. n·et, h~~ sb·Jwerl a ~HU"l- of ;t_,:_:~'·J,OC 1, .J.nd he s appluxckd tbron;;·hout the Jon~ t:l c.nd brpccU.h (lLtl~IIo-l<md. But I rc :ll;· think that, if 'l'r,"su-rer can sho-v thcli t:1c revc1ue c ~lL~ cxr~e.:.uli~ i \"l'!' arc just ,: bout. eqlu~:, -\~:i~h a dig:1t sur­rJh; ··, he is rnore tD l-~~ cc-.agT<.· 1atL'd than tlJn rrrfa'-urcr vvho sho-· J a hu c su.rph"'.'J, b :~ C\lu·:'', if n:wrc re~~cnu~ is c<;'lll .-:t.f\ ~ tban, is noc( ·.\._try, I· bmng tn.1\.cn {" 1t of -~- ... w r"' kcts of pcopl ; t !'-.> s~w-, lei not be. ~ k("l For i.:b ·t rr-a. Jll, aJTIO!J;,

othr·rs, c H.graLni. te th~ C:JVi'filL_CJ.1'!. on c:·s-tlo-iu~r '-'uch a RatisfaL'"flTY -tnto of ·affairs. rrhr:- .._~ 110 doubt that, fr;r )·_' -;·ear::; p,-. .:Jt, C\tH: nd ln harl a f' -riP_ of gc;cl v?a·.Ollfi,

and ;0 rc\.nuc h<.:..\ irrna·-'cl c.:1orr·lO''•·lv, puticularlv the railv:av and the lan.l rr ve·n1e, with the re'sult that, altlvm~,h c !l'iTnt c '<p.cnscs haye dso inf'r('a9rd, t}-,.· rr: .~tTU.(' has L 'll a~)le to Ince·: t-hf'm. Sp('aki of thr :r:.il','- .-t--:· l'evcnue, I deplnrc the fa·)t that thl' Norih-r·.:·i1 r'lil 1: .t)S-- -1.·.'ith i-J-:' ('XC ption of tbo Crr_ tt Xorthl'rn 1-tail·: .1v fron1 1.\J'- n ,~ir,, ·v c. t--c~o not aprHar to b··· in a flonr>'1ing condi,ioi!:. ~r;.e C:tirns. line st cn1s to haYe I J.id a ;: .od ric> a] Lt'ttc·r this y: .. r th;m for tLe t-,,, pe­c"din-, ve u·~: bnt the Trca~nrcr's fi ;nres rhC\V!

that t L(: other :1\orthcrn line , are not in th<> san1e flonriRhine; CDnJiti'ln as thon~ in t 11e

South. As a Northern member, I recognise that railway construction to open up tho country-whether it be mineral, pastoral, or agricultural country·--is of vital importar ~c tD those who are , otdcJ on the }and, and one of tho difficulties we in th" :1\orth have to encounter i" that we are not abh tn get a fair share of tbc raihv.'t.v expenditure in our part of the State. This is an occ:,- ion wh0n it bcromt' IW< .sar:v to speak of tl ?e'J matter·', and from ti"w to time v:e hc1r that the Korth has not g-ot its juc.t deser1 s. One of our chit£ diffi~uliies i, that the South has really too much representation in this Chr,m· her. 1\fo,t of the seats undrr the redistrihr­tion ::!Jchemc of t1.\'0 y0ar.-i ago n.ro in the South; and the North, C<'ntre, and \Vest will never get thoir just deserts until we lun·o a more <'quitahle sy.,tem of representation. I1owever, \Vf~ havP to meet the r:.ituation as it C'Xi~ts, ar:.d ]·avE:~ to do the l1 est wP C':-tn for th(' p('ople \vilon1 wn reprr~"dnJ In corn­mon '\'ith manv other Eieml'ers, I have rail· ways that. I ":ould like to see t•.nstrnctc·], 1"'·ith a v-iC'\V to opt ning- up the gr(·at Cook r1istrict. Dnrin(r 1a t, .sr-s:-;lon ""TP- pa~sf'fl ono line to dPvelop the Mount Mulligan Coalfield, and tlw JinP is bPin.c.:; construeh:~d no\c 'vith all t~1e ha h r'"iJ.lc, with the object of c,nablinp; the mineral country around Chilla­gor> and else'Yhcre :.o be "IPfit l':v the chnp<'r prorl<lciion of coke. I hop<> th:d the North ' ill r~ able to sl10w that it. r«ih 1 vs are norc pro,,porous durin(~ thn ctllTf'lt fhl.tneial '-.'ar. One lin{~ of v:hich I '-' JU]r1 like to mako rncntion is the :\lonnt l\~ollov line, whidt at thP 11r<'S<'nt. time ie owner!" hv th0 J\Ionnt :\folloy l\Iinin~· Company. A pi·oposition has l1ccn put forward h:v the directors of that c0mpam· that the GoYcrnment should take on r t' ,:, line and manage it for the bem•fit of r llP Stat ·c. It should. be quite conceivable to hon. l''~mb<:>rs that a railv:ay that is being mana~ed and controlled by a c.ompany which i in the condition that the Mount Molloy

Supply. [ ll SEPTE!HBER. J Supply. 1293

·Con1pany is in, \vith no funds to ', J on \vith, cannot be of much ervicr to the people m tho di trict. There i; a g-reat dLal of good land at the tPrrninu.~ of' the line in the vicinity of the r,·ng~·::; t1t- thJ l> ·.'k c·f Port Dou.::;las. un::l v•.-e e.~nnrt pC( lJle to .--:-ule on th~-- · lands unl _..ve ruil-Y,-a.v eonlmuilic. tiJ.l. Tl ,~ i that it is iikc~y that that. raili~.-_,_y clo.,.;d. It w.··.:· con trucL-.d r J::ae :veJ..rs ago b:y the ,_,oin­IJJlly at a cc •:t { : 'J~~w J]LJ.S.C l, nd :.he op\--'ra-tionJ of t.he co1npany hn nj HO\ · 1 o a -t.:.l(

1'"il1. rr1~.~.\. rre nmuinr> th: fron1 h·:.L.: tc; 1110 ·.h, a1 _;_ frorn ._.; in iho o:q_ii-' ... ;ttion of ha"T:i1 c;' to lt 1."'

Eli

dif'~ -It to gut h·lJl. n1r1nlH ...s to t.!ko f; i_l 1hi' llHl.ttOr ~H~

a-.,va7 fror:n tho State. •

C . ..:- Lompa:l.­{:o '-tnJt -:ut'?

.. r Ll C{'' .\ C.. '< t they

t1 J~l5,CC) L - ;o,cr~ thn:v u.; e in tlw dDvclop_r:.,_·nt of the n1ine 'Y ~•J 1L~ H 1) ~ £.:.~_,(£() in _f:

o 10 n-:-.,,e~, lncn ri .. Hnt:-:::1 co:..n'··· ..

' r 1 ;l: ' h _cl of r_rh:~t soc1ns a very

.. ::.c · ,, ,.-.c.- Pail-

. .1 t ._. _:_~~ IJ .J ::!." ,{;·},~"Hi.l: lnti {'l ·n·i, , of ,;J 1-1 '

\!Y tl . ~I cl , ,,.,I

i•·h·: ~.st 1~- pt cr ~n. T:l""' hne rrnL n. n·-cJr. : hC'(

J:tiolloy CmlllJ ·tny, b'·8aus,; t>!0 { 1 ji:o.·. p .. 1"' 'lnired lD

R~n . v c-"·:.\1 f <t: ] . tD ,·,()

-es of rr.aL ·1. It

g. t ,· xpc·;_ ) n 1·p I think it •vou' ·! 1•.: 1lfOlY' any r-,t~, r ··~)i]~t~T s~~~·JerL •n" "' thi") ·JL Ic-~1g c the nne "~f 1.~_-jth rrn~lTd thr: ~in' ~- ~ -r:r~--1rr in Nort11. I ·1 pl~':l to : y. ~ ~ ~l~Jl~fio: ,;~r1 in the Tre' -~: ""-:..~'s ~;ate:r1Pnt. ::__fl sho' n so":lO lit"le ' " '- althou.o-h th -. .: old 0ntput ;, ~ill on +-he d" line. r" t.ruc.t thnt bdon !on''

the _uold output will be incrn>Rccl, and I ani p],. asod to '·CIY t!Lt, during' the last twelve mon{·h·z. the a'o,istance rendered by the Go­;.-ernmE·nt-at any rate, in my electorate-has

reFnlt-2d in bene-fit to tho ,~ ho are pioneer­ing SDHl,' nf tLt:se litf ~ to1Fn , hilJf. ln tho C:0ok disll·c .. '. we have had cmall c 'll11S of rbor.:.:Jv grnnt ?d for assislt:1.:-u iu prospecting, and ill ~j·)llle instance·, poocl re..,1•Ls h-:-,vc ber-11_ ac:1ieYLl, and the r.tlon'(·.:·· ba~ Lc-cn n __ :.uHhd. I notice tlL~l'J i::; r- sun1 of rr:orH y on th;.;; E-d.iruates thi.c, Jf' n· tD pnab~~ th-· f"licy to lle contir1u,-,d, ,,-h :l'~l j ~ ver.:· ::;atisfactor,;. ..~:\. very large prope_.;J ir; br fore LLc UoYf'rnrnont at tho P!'" 'Ollt tirne ill ( Jnn-ectil: 1 r:it h Char­t, -rs To\'\'E rs. I do not, per r nw.Jly, knovv any­thing a~!Out tho n1erL·) or L~t ill( }'its of ·;his scb->me, but lam cure thut. the bm;_·l '-.:ich 1-:~1 "i.,;'!'n appJint-"d rill rn:~ ke an t ,·h::tu- tive inquiry in-~•J the Jlh~Cssity or ot!wr~~,i, of de­ydoping the o.ce'ler le\(l.s on Ch1rtcrs fov:ors. I\l8Jny of tho I\ )rthern litii :; n1·:r:·Jy ro-c:u~:_ tlu introductio.1 i··~·JlC'r r ,l;;tal lo c :> n up the~ '. -.c:':. u'1cl1 (''1'!d r• ,oUTCPf. lt rnc~· Lc f('L: __ ('lll1 ,_red the l";o t~L~ n pnrL Gf (! :,-;('lLln.LJ, Up i_-o tb ~ [: .I '1~, 'inJ.C, SO far ' :rnini- -~- is cor;,_~ 'r 1-:.' ·) l't been YC -"Y -tl-) c- 'Yt lor: :L In Lr r;rc·~ Cape York _t'f·nin- Jh fr-~ h :-:,~-J •·r 0

1 l b ,,T-· frt-­q_uently l_;.cul u...-r.u_r~· 1 wd ,,-i·J::-ill t1 la·-t couple of J '.tr--. nn l on~; ··n_,ll £·:-ld en tlu~ Batavia Hivcr is prccluciug r- Yl ·y LrgP Cfuartity of .,:luvial f-,olcl. Tlli_, cTcat pt'1Jir .. 1tla 1-: really ~ e Pr lA'Ul propf·:·l.v pro '~''-: -~r1. })jffc;·ent

httYd ; ·c; 1

Ih,_.

by the

: {)1119

ndid L---ld

like H:_,~ > C' SOi 1f' .;:, :,~( 1f )ll to

qot : :,)n of 1 )akin t L ' '-Jf r ·he .t lands The land · hon1d be <?'iven away,

to th<' o _,-h., arc wiiling to In len _i, :~ hn -,.~1 jl:n ta'1~,".;;:;,

of tc '1 c.: JO.roC,C _ ~ :.c.res s )lTIG 2,07? arn..; hav0 ' f·c"!l

11. >r th fn'c ,_!(; --cs', ad pro-1:'-J .\rt. I v ,.,;lei not for a

H• _;.• ("lt ,:lr{ ,,'e free bnd geLPt'nily. but in p~lrts o£ nw SJ.:tt", ll:'Ul'·e rnr';·_ulr:rly

10t' part', t:JO Lwl shouU be given Y'hO .\r v·illir' ~ ~0 tako it HfJ

.\lm prm·i-i<'l chonlcl !J,, the·_e r or:· und:·r th" Avric •1-

_"c..c', al+-~ 1DU ·h, pPrh-:~rs, that 1 :;:i~,,.,. tc0 n1c~·1. If -thr-· r.;o:- the

- \1 : ·.; ')ill! <hj _f.!:. li:'her they o; tra:_·sit. ;~nr1 \Yhf're it i_, not

·-ivo raihYav fJ( : 1 ifc~. sD~:~o assist­b ~ ~-..j- -·-n · 1 ,.- v l" of ~·nl· ::E:·in:r

grc.:t c~L ·:.cult\ in the }; orth ·; :10 r Tr h r fr- ·i ·ht~ "'ar·; verv hivh. r1 ot'''"'r p"od-.1 r· -.. Li .,h is Ul '-'lb1c ol

D'TOV\'n a Pi J.fJt C 'l.llJ?Ot be :: f0'1~ht to t- _.__ .~~· 1

: d t~.C' no, '1 r~,l 2 give ·1 f ··' \Ya'T of

~~:-~-~~~ ~i,~l,~ rr~nri~ 1-,~con~

f, :.hil' pf onr ~Ol'thr rn ports 'J.ffe· VF>ry

'1:1:1 h not. Jy y.in. T ror: r f:'··iFtirs to tL.-:: 1-:r·'t'r r;;i-, ,1YJPrs t~ ·=. 't ".·i1-hin n rr a··or _,b]e distance of tln wl.a.rv< '·, and drecJ.p:,,., have f.> Le Pnploycd to keep the ( hannels op~n. In su,·h places as C-1irn:3, Port Dor~b , and Coo!ttoY.n it is a ca,e of almost

•nstantly having to requi,ition dredges,

Mf'. Douglas.]

1294 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

\Yhich 1s an C 1 pensive n1atter, and the har­botn· due.; t'f< _ __c_!ived, in tho cases of Port Douglas and Cookto\YnJ are not suflicient to L~~·et the cxpm!St.· ·. ..:\.t the prese.:Jt tinw lkJ,ktch n js sornf :,lng like £0,CJ0 in dLbt on the harbour t..l"_ount~ and I think Port Dou_...,!T, i) in deb~ to a g.,_ca:cr exo.2nt. _':_t the F <rnc tin1~') it is necr-.;.:L.l'Y ·._o ~\:C'--;) thc~e harbours drcct:: ,.J, in order t :, ·t tho •.ett1crs may be able to u>t tlLir !Wodw on be ;.rd the st :rl< rs. ~-'!:hough those !JCL'ts show a de'·::t b:"1anc .', I thin:, tho c:ovOl'!Jl11(llt dwuld be prCl-·rLd to da.nd tl1o e-:pcruo and keep it as a d<..lbit agr..:n[t tLJ po:.:.·~ ~r1til t: '-~trad-e ha.) iilnJ.:_y;;c:J ~ :Hlci·:~Jl· tJ eua!}l·) tho har­bou" clu " to p •Y off· the inc! ·:..tedm;·;. I trust the Covcrnment will not be chcc e­pa:tiug in tht '=' I~,a:~0rs. \Y:,ilo t:10 Sc~1the1n por~io:n --<tho Stat,J (i,.x~s not take an_\ intPrc t in tho Nor~hom P·'"'', the c;itation for c~p. -ration, Yvl1ich ,~,-o h-~ye heard trdcusscd in 1:1is C~- _-ll.<:•r (\l_:_~llg' tho last fo\V ·week:J, \Vill CO!l­

ti:. ne to go on; and although the Prcn1i· r sta · d tha; 1he quc~t1on i.on d~ 1

L Jt llO\V o;_-•upy a £orr ··:r ,-.t d1c thol.~>::;ht.s of ~;_ 1 0':;.;.: iir.~.lYWdiut•?lT I think it will no:. take a :real c1

:- -ol to r-:..·Yivn t!mt crv to ena:.h~ t!w ~Ofth to :daiUl'".c iL OY',-n ::dfai1;s in a l·ett._r '¥· 'ly th:1n is po·- -i.L~o by an Aclmini::>­tration in Bri -b.-.nc, ~.1': hil·'"' on thi:; rn~~tter, it rui~ ht be jnst a.;; ,:·:PH ·'.a n1td~- 01110 rci'Pr­

<'nce to lh•· sht" of c.ffaih tho Po~ t Doug !a' Shir0 Uouncil is in. Tho,- arc in the unfor­tunat-, po L~;on of ha~_in£ i'f·"~ivcr in lJJ£·

:_ .• ~f-i{; -, t:1.c:v o-' (' ~-JLW ;t=,.~~ 0/cr ~ntPr--..;t a11d r. ;:np' ... ·H1 ar:d an'- .u·s to tno Govcrn-n'1.,.rt. It Lse ih<.d tll,_To arc six or s; .ven o£

1 • , J .in v~_r· Tt.s part- o£ tlw

S--.ltO w _uen urP l'Y:-~-&1'~2-r ·blv 11: arrear, ~ 'td why should this partic;;:ar ··,hire be ,i;; Icc! out? I thi.'.k the Tree :urcr Ll;~Sht · .~t a gc od oxc.mplo by pnttin" tho b •iliil' in in another plar3 rLJro Uf~jac~nt to Bris,•·,ne, as he must. rind it very inconvoni,cnt to ha"\ e to m:o.r,agv the affai1·s of this shire, even thm~gh he ma:•' ha~,-(~ a gord man rcprc: ·ui1n:-, hi1n as t.hn rcc:~iY'-1'. I~ takr-3 f .;nr t~-<Y to get i11to L_nn: l ~Cl l '1 1 _'l'. :.::ntt foar or five io ,-:.Jt n :d · ;_· to qL~ thD

: .J' ar .. c. l .! not

r ,J po',. mo.:..:.c:·. n_~· , _ . _ ·o of an c-xyA ntt:!_;urC' of £ ...... ), \\LJ ~t >Xr"1 ;,_J_uCJo­r~s~-1 fr ·:n hf :.1dq1~:lr! -·~s/ lnL hic}l ·wa·, t. :1~ s1derr•l verv qe·- ,.lo ·:o ~ by inr:~1ccliaLJY {'OD·:.erned. I( d ··v<~' Pnv ,,olqtio11 of thi, of fl \'airs·~ I ~';·~>nkl Eke ,tJ-onL I t!Jill], th ' cou!cl tl1rir

(an } ~ mnna ,!- fro:;:Y! I3rj l. ne. _ .. ,: I ~m afr-... d(~ th~t th'· l did

mw'.1 evi,:· 1ce of that v hen" they CODLfOJ.

) TT. DOT:GL~\,~: Th_ ·~ 1nay be trn'. Th·~ S}li::.'2 ~l 1'. , r '•: <P 3, ( '"~TI1)X 1 1[_._~ JlL D

'\Vho not look int-o tbo f ~(-·vue. T 1 ·o-·, per-haps, ·:::,-- ':_:. tL __ rate· Jrvi.-·h1y, t ·1d rlicl not fnllv < Leojd.,.,- ,he fa· ! that tL 'V O"C' 1 about £4f'CrJ t} .,-1d C2Yernn.:>dt, oil , .. ~irh thf b~d to pay 1n+--rc".t. and r•·r1-':.':_l1nt:on e-;erv year. TheY .... ot iLtc, EP~rear·, a"nd thought that tl:~y < onld, pnrh·1ns, o:ct those an'r.-rs cnui' .Jiscd, bnt thcv then found thev had to foot the bilL There is no money for. develop­menial works locally, as the Treasurer is

[Mr. Douglas.

E.re:Ltin~ the lot. I \vould ;;_ ,:-: ·_- c~t that the· ~.._;o·, -·rf1n1ent -withcirav,· tho 1ecPivcr fl·orn pos­~c:-.-ion, and giYe tbe s:li~·c council, say, a 1 erlod cZ th.. year,

rl'hc TREASl:H!:: [!: Thcv are on rrob ~tion no,,.,,; \. e EiJJJl ho"- t"lw~ '~:t or.

Mr. LOTJGLAS: I know thure i· .. a 1' ·o­vo,~ition - ·h.ich rnay C'HW2 about ~luring ·~e next fe· ·· months, •.vlwre'Jy \l,e slu;o c< ' il cotdd ln placed in ros,_m"ioll of their iLLld;:; c;~·ain. A~.houg:1 the ar_'ears ll:-:Iourlt r_o ctO,C~J, I .h,ope the rrrcn .\L~-;·er :xlll 51 :l., ... t~: '~' av to ~\, Hndnn; the baltlf, au no Ql~-?l ..... ,t date; and, i~ ho -,,__ill not ~apitali,,e ! he ammut, a]Jo,, the shire ccunCll ~co pay the 1norF·y LFck at the rate o£ c.i,;l,(_ JO a. re,-,r, 1,'. hich I urH1erst. nd they ·rB pre par d. to do. Tho eli. t·-·i:_ inuned:2tcly surro-~nchng Pt.rt Dou~ln;J ~ ufiervt Ye"'·y ~:~v ·,.T~ ly ir:::nu the r clone '- hich visited t~_o plac,-". t;,vo or throe v0ars a<ro. One d :.· ::'t ljko to trot out tl{'~ ; (· .. ;:cr_t'~,J for tLi~J. ::;, .1;t ~ cf affairs on c.,. 1 •• .,_ o·_-, -:~Ion. L 1t " .... ry gn- :t .... ~.J.-:.:. . ..,gL ~,.~as ckn, ' to thn farnlS. rfhu peo_l_;le arc b:-·g·in. ;.ing to on -their feet a:;ain; .:-.nJ th~. :. ,~gar crop pre 1ise to 1-c a gc .1d one this :_;c~ason. If C"'e Ti'l ·'nrcr i -, no~ pre­pal _ _;d to lFnd th _;_:_1 bac:~ the c.J:·.Lol of their LJnJ.s on tho l:asis I b .. va no>t ::.J.g-

od, \hqmi ~ht ' ';,ii'N~ ~:~~,~-~,f.t1"~d3~ci:J;:~:.~~ over .

roliin10 ·S ~ The ·-,:,.n:l o', L3 a

li.1c a11d rolling ·e(.·n :Th.,,~osf'njan ;:Lnd Port DJ~lgl;,J, ~.·1:1 C-'Juncil • L:o hold r- ~ rL.j ~ it is r·ather r- rrr_.n,)lic..ttc-1 vc· bYo bodies h_\,y tO· an:iVC of '\Vht:.t the rh2_l"_, · s!wll L~ £'Jr of ~uocls,

· 'to ]r· ' fare" o.nd _, -., :1ich y·ill alid just pa ·..,i03 conrc1 ·,cd. h:::en con-;, t Por:· l)ougla ·. -tho ~.Ic:~nnan do not p:~~, f~no:~:3:h railage on their

s~- ('Jur: but, on 1 he o her _ h.·~nd, hey .. say th -,y --yo pn\ lnr~ a l1i -~1 r rntc .::.vr ~-l~;r than 1:cnv otlwr mill that ! ts the"' fac:hticc;. If

J Trc~ .jun : ·\;i] allo\V the mill to a --'-luire ,· ~ of th.:: "£ra11n\ ay ~ hich b2loLgs to the Port ])ougl,;'-\, f)hire Cc ~hcil, ~'!-: ~-,. r~nt: lt and on rnch ; 'rn~-; as "\v:dl e1::..:.. uc t.la. the tr:-hn.'aT· uc~ th0 rolling-stock \ ill b,J kept in thorou":'h r::pnir, ['lld a j ,_ ~ _ rc~~'{ved o ilw- {_ -.pi· '-:. inYolvud, 1t ~., 11, be

r·)h.lL 1011. 111er .. 1 ·t \at tho re( ·~v~r c n .. 1~1 r~"1d the

d l1 ""1VC ~-··_-l , la:_a::re-y·!Ji·h th-vv haYG

1_. ~0~1 ~t ~eneral o.Hnwn rc::civPr ,_;:-,s L rov.ghi.. sorn[) 0~ ->-h,- r2:tu1. ;-crs ~~·ho v\-erc in default up to thf :,. bt ~ring , and tha$ they ~a,vc h3;d

+-he nlJll( v \Yh1ch \-vas lcg1hmate1y -1, 1 1t t~~i-_ stn"!. of ."J.ffn.iLJ :Jhoulcl

· to ccntinue nny longe1·. I ,,,,,_,- will bJ glad to b9·

~si~1.-''3S. fJ.'hrrefore, on this (',J.:sio!l-, w:-. rt I hav-e th; J op~;o1-tunity of {~i n:.- ~ln ;· the financial rr·-;ition, I \Vould urcre hin1 to a· 1i _t in enabling these r~~ple

0

:~, on a lY .-.t r footinv. I did not rise '"the purpo··c- o£ cc: .;py1ng 1ny full time.

<-· '3, in c(<nrnon , .. ;jth other ho.tL .mcrr~1 ~~s, I tl:in!c we wc•.'lt to get throuo;h w1th busm~ss ;•- r1uicl:.:lv a., poss,: ·le. The St;ttement \Yhlch has 1-Pen 'pheed l:dore l'S, and the Estimates for the current year, will recGive our atten­tion in due course. Looking through the Estimatf's in a cursory way, I note instances

Supply. (ll SEPTEl>IBER.] Supj.ly. 120.>

where highly-paid ofiicials are getting sub­stantial increase,, I do not say that they do not deserve thcJe increases, but some of the higher-paid men havp, perhaps, been put on a gc'nerous bc.sis. As long· as the country can afiord it, I think thoe-e who arc at the he<td of the deparLmen:s al'e Y .. D.:.'thy of their :.eire. Fo1· n1an v v-c~1r;:;, "\y~ilG . tl:._ ~ C> ·' lll~·r:.T ~,. uS" i'l [t"l

1 L~nfc~·(Enato

il~-'an· 1 l .·ta; ', 1n.~ny o.t o·;: puolE~ ~-, _ _r-'\-thtts, lu:d tl- v bceu in otll ~l' y an::~ of lir"J, \.·ould l}rubabb- ha\ J teen abl~._ to f :1rn 11HH ·.1 n1orc t!.aE £u00 c. .. : .,t.C· J a y,__ ar, and HJY., o-':, ing to the S' 1.to ii~.:..lnccs cnabli::J tho L :)vorn­L ... ent \ J give · hi,. 11, r r _•,te, th~- / are bharing in the rc >nd which I t.:,ink thoJ are n.titled

:.J. IIov.ever, th'-)n ni:1tters vdll [5 p.m.] l: ' discussed ;, r1 tha items

come before uc. On the -\·hole, th.-. ~~ ,t:iJLat': J which hav J b ~t·n p1· ··en ted ar- ms .. and rLa .· >L:·.bk, and I u·ust tl:w-:e 1ri~l "not bo t'" J n1uch Illa(L~ of these fe-w lllf'H:t ·es -.h.cll have beun spoken of.

Tho CRER : I think the ._, v ill all be arnply -d. ~

' .. lr. DOL:OLAS: I am i1- lined to ucree wi::, -t:w Trca' urer there. I think w_- l:~:tve a "' ·y uxcclke1t ctaii of oifi< .cr: in the v crious L.oparttuent ' and whilst vn? do no"!. say t~1e:.T :_ rc o~-tl~-.., or>od-l do Lot think an',T GT, ern11u 1t utl~cials arc OY{'r•, ork0d, as I kno'\", a·· a rulP, thf'y ·hayc goo .. l hou.:-:·.s and tL-_ 1 aLq_--. lJlcu; , of llHHl to do -.,hat v, ] to b'-- ~1Jn-e-,_tt~ the .san1e ti1n-2 I think thgt .'"' conteHL:d nnd \·:L•ll-1rdd public ,·icc is al' ·ay; a ;;1·c;_ c hr 11) to th0 cour1t::''~ .-;e:ner­(_ liy. _1 think thu, dnring tl1c corni"i1:;_r- year th ~·e IS e,·or~ l,lo~pc:Lt oi our having a f .ir r.e:--_-:0::.1~ nLcl otr-- rail·x:-· revenue -:1ould ex­vane~ ~ c~ our land '- _•tth~Inc ·1t--if C_crc is a

sz ,· ~-~~~Idfb~i~ c1·~-- iLE~~l~~~~t 1The~;~~~c~~li~,~~:.~ of in th ern action of n:__;\v rail-.,rus lli :'" alr) justii> d. ...:\lthough th, r·• i; "a largu sa ~1 of nancy to be; nwt in a Vl ar o. t\•, o, there should not be Lmch difliculty in converting it iu;o frcd1 k-ans. The Trc-micr, iL f:'!K~-:- ki~g this n1a~tG", r. :,s cer-tainly Yery in~..::1·e rl:er:i!lo: 10 :he· sb t~· of t'i· iirr or thi;~. ,: "a1 s r _;.), ."'-·hen \Y{ n .~t ·~1 ·l~·i -h pte:_ 111111. ~-\s of rr.._1'airs in rurope to a ( F ·tain c:;; r::t . ftcr 1ettinr.' -off a lit:.lo ·~·· ,,_L~ in the ~1 -?L.ans, I thin\: -the finnLcial on·:??'., so rur· as one ca.n r·(_n1gr- f··on1 authorr:-1e· on f"c snbi0f''. iJ Jikc]y to i~nnroYc. T;:'--rc is no do.uJ;>t th'"t. in t:Le last } ~ar ,or finaL~Ial p-o~1ho"~ ~In, <:ueen.,:s.:_ar ~:-~ en

·lut ,,.JI<.~ Jl,Y. .>:to __ y u scarce; bnt ,.,-i -:-, c·;nti~1u---d prosperit~ . ~nd

d c>JOd sc: ·o-:_-, "\VB P·lOtdd hnYC of ortr rc .·r.nue; CSlY~c:~

O'~ fur,.tlL:r 11nc3, tl":c 'J.lrea-

'-J.'O ~ n1orp Jnil._ '"l

o~ r'il•. 1 co~lstnwrimJ, a-_d :. '~hcr7h tlv· to 1 JJ rever~~o over o:xx ncF ~ure is loss- cqmr ,Lred with !D.:ob • it must b.-; borne Llind th'lt a lm _;e of !HW

lin, -; ha vc bPcn opoEed to trafilc daring t~1o last £"--- "\V yca.J ,, and a v~·ry C·_Jn:-:,_ido:rabJ~ an1ount of lo--:n n1oncv ha·J b;~n FP1Cl-'t on raihva3~ ccnFtrpction. For t-h£' f :_·st fi--T_. yr ·rs f'f raihY it i9 no-_ 110qiblP, and i' i~: h · rdlv r"asond- lc, to <"''h'Ct these- lin•-' --houlcl pay ~ very grea~ a1nouilt in exce-:J o£ actual working expenses and interest. JYlv opinio'l is that after the first few years, so long as we have a fairly prosperous season, there is no doubt that the railway revenue will con­tinue to expand as it has done in the past.

\Ve in Qu~emland haYG tl:o large;:. length of railway as cornpared \\ ith tho oth~r Siai:es, 13.nd I think our cost of conJ~J~ructir n corn­pares very fa\ ou1:ably ·with theirs. Ou1~ gauge is 3 feet 6 iu::hes a·, against 4 fLee 8 inches in New South \Vales, and 5 feet 6 indv.:. in Victoric1,, so that our cost oJ con­stl'uction keti)s do~vn and the co,(.~ of up~~---rp is lm: as compared 1vith the other S :. a . I fully anticipate that cur rail· :ay r<·n·•mu wrll t:.::Jntinue to expand, c nd it will rue an that scttkment on the land will 60 on apac~, and with e. vigor011.j systern of irnr1igraticn, \vhich I hope tho GoyernLlC~lt will lcgiti­Ina '~~Jy pursue·, the'" three fL.lturcJ \vill n1ean that Qu:0:1sL nd will be able to pay its ay in the fut.ne -that ,._ e will be able to l!ICet the loans LcJ they fall due and rai9e further money for tho de.-olopmcnt of (lm;cnsLnd fl'0111 0!1(' U1 n to tho other. Son1ctlun.~ hkD­£34,000.000 of our kan money !wo Lc '11 in­.-ut'ed in our r- ih:c c s, and the B: iti-,h inves­tor r11usi undoubtedly bo kttiAlc(i. 1~L:l.t we arc putting our n10L·2:;¥ into a sati.-:fncto:·y _c.- -·1 ~·1-i":Y method. I F.incen:ly Lope thLt r~'.h\·ty construcdon \vill bo ·dg .;rousl;- purF·lBd, and y, ithin a fe~"· Vf_<,rs y . .,: v,-ill have a. rcvenuo i1H~r0,- siiY" £roE: £ :.-,000. ClO, \Yhic~l i1 S'' 1.--: ~' at the pft."J'nt tintc, to clDu7-"-le that .an10llUt.

It is not n1any years ago tho.t cur to! :d rcl <Jnuo on!' an1ountcd to £2.50J,OO'\ and I_~"JY.- v:e '"1 _reL r0c~iv·~1g £6,000.000 and ovet·. 'l1 1L~t i..; "'- erv largely due to 1-h{· vig-o1·JU':t lJolicv pursuCcl bv this G,vel"-L:cnt -~:ld iL, iJrcciOc(' · :OJ:s in g;inr- in for .. ~ :-(~,--uttic r.•1l­vira~~ con--true-lion. I hon~ that F0licy· \Yill be :•Er:-~lPd, :-I~l I aGl 1-cu·e Our iin"lnccs -.,,·ill k:~C)­ftrair:ht frmn t;_l118 to time, and '· ·L·_•n th,_7 Fina'ncia1 St:Lt nwPt ~s pJaccd befo:.' ;;tg"'ln under \dse achnin~· ~-rat :on it Y:ill a f • 'idnr~--Jrv -!tr..tc of affni::.s.

HoxouR:.?<LE MD!BER<': Hear, hear! Ilh. WI::\STAXLET ((, ·.<een'on): I dc:<ir&

to n1akc a fe-w brief ob. ~rvatioi ·::; on the Financial StatenH:nt be foro ',': e flnif::l y~~ith it, and I do not intend to tako Ul' mv bil tirne in doing- so. In the first 111ace, I \\'..t:lt

to s~·-v ;~ \Vord -cr t-"- o i-:' :rcf(:r-~:~~~u- to \Yh~t has been C·tid b~· mcmbus who, ~1~ve cdread; spDkc11 abm:L r.r~ --.',·ay 1n \"d1J<:n th? estl-·~1.1t"B of r~"'' u1 j r \:}L nc1i' hav:: h·=:e~l n1ad> up to a ~": tll .:,Ll~'~ , _,. n.bm!-:-.'<i,02J or o.£6,(10. Tllr::re do 3 nc. ,"oc:t.1 ~ J

rnn to bt• an>;·thing Y··ry ll1'1g1cal in tht't. It i" quite phun thrrt tho Trr'a·~:r•r is CJ..fe:Jl Hct _ :o o cr~l'~t.ilwltc· hi i _,-, J:rtw or his expt.nditurn. \Vl>•n he finc~J tho rc,~enuc co~-1inr; in. be knn;ys ~· :1at 'a do ;.vit.h it. Notwithstanding that, it does S'-'em to me that it is not a vc~·y accurate oo'imnte \,ben ,,-e fin 1 -,h,_t the re•·enne WJ.S Jll09,0C0 oYer tbo { It is no'· diffir:ult 1nnJtcr

LU8 CG!J.l(':_, io flnd f- 01110

~··L d' it. In all kinds of -r:a:,-s .~_ 1 1 rid of. rThere i.:~ no doubt

de2LalH,:s co1nc frorn all parts the 0·\:pLYidi~- -re of n1o:r::y,

, uo rc c-~uJ did not con1e in these rr~'1nds ·,-·ou>l not be gr,...nted. Tho Trca­

···lrer (·,'l.n c) ~Uv find other 1nc :tns u;.~ dir- ~Jo',­ino- of hi sn: lllns rcYC'l:'lC'. Fr-r in·<:lHCC', .._.,.(; reo thnt .::L': 1 .,!~0 for '" oodon builr,i~--[s '"as paid for out of 1·cvcme in-t.Jud of o-::;t of loan, and. so f;,r as tho trust funds are concerned, the •cum of £19,09fi fe-r immigra­tion was paid for out of rcvume imceud of out of truct funds. Ther& is practic-:.l!y nothing wr _eng in either of these things. but the point I make is that these items aro now paid out of revenue. I think that. the wooden buildings should always be paid for out of revenue, becauso it would 1rean

},fr. Wimltanley.]

12::16 Supply. [AS SEMEL Y.] Supply.

that b.cfore ~h' lo,-.n had matured t;,0 klild­ings Y';ould have ber )rle ~,. orn -Jut, aw:.i 11: "n WCl ,,,oull nc:: have the; n''ScC and vould till o~:·o the n1oney. The C':pcnJ.it-ue on

\\ooden ·cLool builc:u1o,·s >:~lo ld therefore be legitinur:-='lY clu:tr·~0d to revc1uo and not to ~~,,.n. Tho ~ une ar~l~lils r) imn11s;1~ation. _l_heL, L~ay son1-et1ung t:) s 111 J ,tVO'J1' of ~l .;ndinf? 1:,.1onoy Jn i 'l dgra .1( ;1 and trying to Inc~c') jc our por_)lj_l, .t1uL, lrut \Y' do no~ :,"(Cced ve y \H ll, as I will point out :h,crtly. Consc1Lwntly, y, c Hnd that the··,e figu:r ·s c_.,n bo jug~led with froi:n one sculCP ;'ncl another, cnn the n ,ult is that it \vill bo r;,.ite ev, for th: Trc ,1' Lirol', ''h~n th·~ tirne C'on1es :~ lL '. c dcfici- ~ in<-r.td of chc r-:_trpln ~. -o h-:t.Y,J had for thD last (':cr·ht Ol' 1 ~· c ,;, as poin:cd o <t by tllc Tr •.re?, to lnaniJ.Julat·• i1H- n. It (:o~'s not uow, but it ",· ill Jnattnr thc·:1, and if is lc:?)tinlato to do as f.·~ h ..; de 10, I do not think h ;+,\YO m'd h ,ye an· fe::\r cf havin;; a deficit, for the siltlplo 'C'a­[!J:n th -~ i... ~18 finds he Cclllnot pe1y hi.~ ':; y vvi'h thr: '· 1Gun .. ..; tL · i- rc ~ving o .t vf l:t:; reY c---~ of

:-10 and pay th- · l ont of ·t~~Cll1 f·.·:y:.l t:!_·rst or loL::t. aYoid havinc; any dofi it

redu ~.ion fund was of dr,aling­

L

h ro

c) sr. i ~1 ~ Ll'.", 0.

n ,.J(d~ o ,t t loan, l-'"tt t\o Pl' ·c· 'r:o

h,· J _,J 1£ :1a\<.1___,.. t~~c ~ c.YP--.d dn---.. up io 3C~h Jnn 1n ( ·::h ::: nc~~d ,~_,_•r, t1

lO'lJ h t}.~ UCl >l•nh haYC nJt }JI ll prc.::;~-1 '1 for T:1a; is n in·titnt~•)ll of the thre: or foul· · 1.. 1.rs t-) ('Ht.l .le thcr1 sv;a}}c ;~,~ np t" ,--.. .Urplnf; ·hic-h otlH'l' l C'

hrtYC ·. 0 .he lJnblic ,>ht rcdn ~'inn ;~r-nd . . ln-:1 · 1

'J ·~ell ·,h ~----a:.· Tnr 1-:.1T!'

p··y iC' 1''1 '-L ] ,'

a1 wu1YL ~ cL- n Dlw e> o CJrrt fc 'low the· 1 ll( r}·. RO l~J"--.7

t-) lh

as if th-; fin>r: 1 >'-ad P~" .tip·ht-.l'On', ~·rd. rrhn Trr:>~:::nr''!' g-oes on to av ih·: rail\,7 -L':~S an l land ,' ·'i.Iernc-nt go ha··:,-1 in h::,nd. '\YelL ilvt j 11 :,tatcF' nt that is O]Wl1 to a f(OOfl

clc l d q , · stic">. ThBre is no doubt that ·, ~' J r:1il~ de'--eL Prnr"lt that has taken ph ce in 1 •on-la·od <1m·ino· tho la"t fc"' Yc;:~r b...,s en of a phcnor~er al cha-ractf'r,

it .--1 Jt (__, :n to .c hrt l1"r _1 ~ et·~ ~cL~ent thing Elc' l:t p .. 3 y;lth rail .~ay

~;t. ..\nd. is ,~lF''+cr YOrv rc-I~l ~L:: thin--; in ( .Jrnnr 111 i."''ith rv.i.l .. o d--·yelonn1ent t·.J noti.e t~1B nnv;_tnc o.f l'T1d t1·"1- i_; 1rn~'r c11HiYati0n ng· sorne o£ !he. rnJI~ .. rv lin(.:,. So t~1at i_' SPCD.l''. t0 m-3 ITIF'• -~.:' of L nn.;· th~.·t r::.1l· buil·Eng :::n:: 1nnl1 :·~tt10rnf'',r, p:o htn(1 in h-:,nd, wP sl,o·d·l RflV r~af- rail·wav lT1il.-1ian- and land specnl[tl.ioll go lu~~d in' hanr1 • I~ r;f:.;rence to ;·l ;Tic·1Hnr0. i:· has hPen pcinb:~d ont a1F-J b:v previous spc 'h ,-s tlL:, t the nrofTHS that v ,, havo br-~:n makino; is not- ntisfactory, 'The Treasurer sa: s it IS. But the hon.

[.Mr. Winstanley.

nc,Tilxr for :Hmilla ,.£;-s that it is not, and th lwn. me1,1bor for Tm'.nsville does not think it i . ·\\~hen d1e loaclcr of the Opl_,:>si­ti-__ n v~ · .3 ~"11· <lidng, ho sa,id that the Pro­ui'-'r, l:,·hen h-~ 1c· o to rcpl , ~,Y.-)ulJ have an o.'~)ort;,:tnit, u£ pruvi11:;;· that it vn:..s the c.La. c:1d tho Trn.sm r said tint ho woLild Lav-e (>' sv ·· ~L ~ . Pre 1?-:r, y hen l!" :)i·a( ~c.: ally the · r,lth of ~:w ,-'-a'lJ nt _r~ dl'V('lovrn-:. .11> was anything but S'i.-:1 factory, ctncl all~ o_~e :ho ; ar~ 9 t-J k:~I: into t,he Egnr-~ j t.hat ar.c gi:··'n ca~l _o no o·L·~lC' c ·'11.ClUSlon than ,_:::.1 ,t LLlJ :-- l 1E<nt i; not ku~ping up >:ith the ~:.1nonnt oi 11ublic rnuney that i beiu'..!· spent o·l ru.il ,·,a", s. ( 1 the Ul'(':-l unuer cul~ iiv,"tion is Iiothillj L \Yhat it s~~ .uld be fc. _. t]~ ~ I'lOUn"!i of n-on_c-.;~ that hG s be~n ~J,' LG witlt tJ;, 1':1.: lHYl. r1, L.' ·Yr for ~\tun 1-YU'· n1akinp· corn~ 't. .rL-ool--- 1: •. i"th- t1~c ln"', ton-·.· :tr period, '!tly take that and ) :ok at t}J-' far n Lr:.~l :'.ndcr c~1l :vn.- i:.n1 i c.__,~ c~-'rr .~.:. The total under l p i~1 L>~)3 \ _:; ;_1 s= .~-~'J ~ ( , .'nd i_~ 1'!1~ i-'- \YUJ 66t,~-~.J t:,.c ~ ., or an incr. p of or.l:: 101,f ~·- 1· nc··c·:; in tc:n ears. .l~,o . , thr.t is n lt an un ·tit· • L 1t r _.thor u, Yl'r, f·!-ir COlE,' .tri )J1, a:Hl anrl.Jodv \• ill

Cutt an incn a a~ ratO of '10,CJ0

,,

nto of of

Jl'ilt

1:.-~r:.\ts, ~ ·tua~

ll' Yp lll

iln-1 th J t'w are '--tuo Ul'10:- c?<"creased

u_~c~("'

e' fol-

~t(' ..

··c:tD

:L3,J 7 3 <'( I.arlt 15,1C6 r·r{-~. In 1·

Ll' l,

1" n T;-;~tl. (.., ·'Jlll'~C, n:te , ' an l in

liYO i>1 di.- x1 .::s or 1n tho citi~:·- 1 all ced in thJ y.·ell-being of th c

aJ.mit that no c_tu::e Lxcc;->t h ,c beet found, ard no dC'Y · cd up to •he prese•'t

, it· ,y b~. I tnH ,hat it will I thio";k i~.} · , tC '-:.1 1 nf ~he

:cnl"rlv the \o-ri"ultural SOLH t-hing l fin(l OEt what

ih t i , ping l' 3 b~.c 1c should 1x); ~oing- fJr~. ;:1_n1. l'co·)lc t.'l'Lll'C h- ..... ~8 L.)t

a.nd ::trC' 0 -~- t}w dir'· r

nnd ;r the.!' DTicnl!ural --.1

o~h r in-·:itution~ \ hich it i-> i·bc n ·ovi ::ce ~\0:rir d '- -r ·l D~p-rtmc .t t0lr~/";. fter.

•.inl--· i 7·-;y hnvo net n1neh lOnfidct 'J in in--~·itntio.ns that th.-t d~ v. ~rtmE ;t con-

n nt awl it docs r: tho,,:h tl·at dc,nart-

up iclo <\)\' n and i11sido on rn cn1 ~rcl-~ different

"hich it ricvF stands. Tbcn, ,~-c ·.!10 ·rea under sugar~ cane increased 30,136 acre··,, and in this conne.c+ion let ;· ~ ~av that if the state"wnts that were made ·here when the discussion on sugar qucc,tions I:>Jok nlace last year were true, instead of there being

Supply. [ll SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1297

an mcrea.<e, there would have been no crop at all, beo~~:tse hc<L n!LJnbers continually said that plant~rs \\ 1.·re not going to plallt and '~Lre not going to Lilti,.ute, and the conC:itior,J being in1pc',·__;d '\ere such that tbny v;o!ll:l gi"'> c np tl ; busine ,s ,_~.~~ogeth!2r. r.I,here L r-c:nar1.:~,:-lo ~'Yic~eL]G in l:1e 1'·9·· turn.J now t:1at ir.s: ."d of ~.:ing 'lU.e tho_y v,-erc just tho reverse of true, and it does sh,::. -.;., th.: kind of argurnentJ that are some­tiincs u._ .... cl to boJ·"c:c1· up a c:'."C' to ,-~it party p~~l'l1C'-i:'·,,, It is a f""l'DlJ that is rnaking n:orc progrLf-, a:1d shov:i11g greater incrcs~ . .o;es than any of the others. And then we are re­peatedly told that whilst the areas under crop are not increasing, changes are taking place in other directions, and that land is being laid under artificial grasses for dairy­ing· purposes. And yet, when W!l come to inquire what the position really is, it does not show up much better than the others, because, after all, there are only 166,175 acres under artificial grahacs at the pr;lsent time. Amongst the estimates made by the TrPasurer last year was an estimate in regard to the stamp duties, but we find that he has fallen short of it by about £53,050. It is J.widont that there "as something won­derfully different from what he was looking for in connection with stamp duties, which wore short of the previouq year's collection by £37,392. No comment is made. He does not offer any re& ;,on for the decreas!J. Per­haps he does not know any more than the rest of us do, Lut it does seem strange that in a year which is deemed to be n. prosp('rous ."'-e:n in n1o "t lines, particulctrly commercially, the stamp duties should drop to that extent.

Mr. G. P. BARNES: Money stringency pv·sibly, affecting tranoc.ctions in land.

::\fr. WINSTANLEY: I do not know that money :"tringcncy 'vould account for a de­crease of £37,000 in the revenue from stamp duties. It is a well-known fact that deputa­tions have wnited on the Premif'r asking him to abolish tho stamp duties, and it may be that pc'ople who want tho stamp dutiC's aboli­,h, c!, a:1d have had their requc9t refused, have found means of evading the duties. Certainly the decrease in revenue from that source "preaents a rather peculiar phaso. ::\1oney stringency may have curtailed trans­a< l·ions, but on tho whole the year has been a pro"p.wons one, and v. e should not expect to find a shortage of £37,000 in the stamp duties' revenue. Something has been said in connection vvith immigration, and t:JJveral mcmbr,rs have stated rcpe:1tedly that the Go­vern:,wnt nre nof doing vs much as they ought to do in this direction. There is no doubt in the mind of anv member of the IIouso that there is room "in Queensland for a great many more people than are here at \he pre;;··nt time, and we are all ar·reed that monee in vs"ted in brine;inp; people to J;he S"atc is not a bad tl1ing if oxe can get the ri'iht kind of people, and if they stay when they come to Queensland. But if they do not stay wh'ln they come here, what is the use of o)wnding money on immigration? The quo,,­tion arises as to ,,·hcther we have got an adeqHc.c,t~ return from the mon,oy spent on immi~rration, which amounts to between £3,000,000 nnd £4,000.0)0_ I do not think w•~ ha'''· I find tl1:1.t the arriYals from other Str.tes by land last year numbered 63,324, and by d'a 27,061; total 90,385. The depar­tures wore, by land, 69,480; by sea, 27,061; total 96,541. From the United Kinvdom we brought 8,660 persons, so that the total arrivals for the year were 102,436. The total

1913-4 L

departures numbered 100,594, so that the net increase in our population from this source, after spending £50,000 on immigration, is 1,842. If that is a sati,,factory result from an immigration policy, I do not know what would b,; an ur•.'lti,;factory reouL

Th<Cl SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYF: l\Lny of thosD al.·ri-·htls al'e not imn1igrants, but p8ople \vho carne- np here as su,,.:ar-"\vorkers, shl_,arerd, and so on.

?~lr. \YIXSTAXLEY: ri'hc nz.t in<.-re3-se in our lJOpulation as --~lo·,\n by the excel:ls of arrivals, including immigrants, over depar­ture9 is 1,lA2. That shows that if the immi­grant' who W•>lre brought hr,rc ,.tayed in the State, other persons left and "ent to other States where they believed they would have more congenial surroundings. It is apparent from the figures presented to us by the Go­vernment Statistician that it is a question whether the people we brought to Queens­land at a cost of £40,000 or £50,000 stay in the State after their arrival. If we cannot get people to stay here when they come, then it is nseleos exl?ending money in bringing them out. It ls not the province of any individual State to introduce immigrants at· their own expense for some other State to benefit by that policy. Immi­gration is one of the things the Common­wealth Government might very well take over. V\Te know that, whatever may be the case now, it is a fact that in years gone by the immigration facilities offered by Queens­land were made use of by people who had no intention of staying in Queensland when they got here. I belicv,e immigrants were nominated by their friends out here to such an extent that the Government at one time refuG -'d to accept nominations, so great were the abuses of the system. If this country were made what it ought to be, if there wc>re the facilities which it is o:dd there are for people getting on land within easy dis­tance of a railway and on re:tsonable condi­tions, there would b,, no difficulty in getting people to come out here without paying their passages. At present the majoritv of the immigrants brought to Que·ensland' are artisans and general labourers, and they prefer the cities and thP towns to the coun­try. It is all very well to talk about the lack of progress in agriculture being due to the fact that it is difficult to get men for that work. I heard a man talking about work on a farm, and he said he \Yas expected to get up about 3 o'clock in the morning and work until about 10 o'clock at night-. If those are the conditions of work on a farm, I do not wonder at men not seeking emnlov­mcnt as agricultural labourers. But wh~ther that statement is true or not, there is no getting a way from th~ fact that there is something in the conditions of work out in the bush >'· hich prevents men taking that kind of work from choice, unless they ttre ambi­tious and desire to secure farms of their O\\ n. On the qu<'stion of loans I have not much to sa.y. I have listened with a good deal of in­terest and atLmtion to what b,,s lx"n said by members \vho are capable of speaking on this subject with authority, and it seems to me that there is a very general opinion that we have gone pretty well the full lengt.h 1\"e should go as far as borrowing is concerned. A man must be a financier to be able to dis­cO<ss this matter satisfactorily. but we all know that in view of the fact that we have to meet loans to the extent of £11,000,000 or £12,000,000 which mature in the very near future, we should proceed cautiously, remem­bering that we shall have to go on the money

Mr. Wi1u:tanley.]

1298 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

llHtrk .. \: to raH·; the n1oney required to pay off thc.,c lo_.•.s. This party has point<'.d out rc)-citc".;Uy thrc' i~ is not opposed h borrow­ing for r:_producfve \vorks. ~But there is a lin1it a.J to \vhat n1ay b..: dono by borrowinf:'. .Ahhcu :h ''1orks may bo r'~productive, yet there iS .~ limit to which tho ro \'Gnue can be tuxld to n-::·~ ko up deficienciPs in tho rcturr:.s from rt.,_~.._odti' !·~yo .'vorlcJ. Onr railw-ays :~.;·o our LlC' ~ l't.'lJrodu.c +-rvc '\vorks, and \\T are to.:d bv tho 'J'r .-,.mer th t this year th3y paid £3 8;•. 6d. ag-nir .'c £3 8 .. lld. lr .t y.-'1r. l\1e:u ... bers ._,l·e, I am sure, sorry to k::trn tl-_at thde is c drop in.' c. ad of a rise in tho .. o returrs. This drop is, no doubt, due to the oxtensif)!l of o~n· railv.-:.ty syst~ m, Lnd to the fact that ne'.v lines ur~; ;,Orne time in or,·ra.,tion before CKJ. be _ol..:-10 r ... :n1urL 'ativc; r.nd tho

.J-J that v.1n1e linr,) arc stopp,·d in s-.vnT>)­or ~~t gt·-11 tr·f! ., has a~·~,?-rc_.va·;.,:·'l the posif_cn. It would be infinitr-ly b~ttor, when a railway

is comm{·nc d, that <-··; soon as [5./Q p.m.] po;,jblo, cc,llristc.t with economy,

it should l:n pushed on to i: s tenninu-. 1 "vhere it \viii be a0le to get som') tnde and bring- some rv·enue into the Trea­E,:_uy. Tho '.rrca•>juror tolls us that tho net retul'l.i on c..tpi,' ,t} invcstr..d in our raihvavs \Yas not so !':Ood as last -"Car, being- £3 ~s. 6d. per cent. as against £3 9;,. lld. With reg-ard to the three kans raised during- last year, we arc told thr t the interest on the net proceeds of d1e firs~ lo;m of £2,000,000 v 23

£4 Os. 3~d.; on tb nt ;t loa'; of £2,000,000 the inte;e::" was £4 3s., and on tho !nst loan of :£2,000,000 the intore,Jt was £4 2s. ll~d. \Vhile e-.< r;; one would ba glad to S<" money cheaper in the _r(!:tr future, it is not likel~· tha; are [;Jm:r to see an"\ thing of th·:' kind. rtobabilities are that we shall s-"" i' de< rcr rather tlun cher.pe~, thoug-h every­onJ will be g-lad if tb ' revnsc should prm·B to b the case. At prr .ent the interest on our public d bt is £2,010,163, which it must be admit, ·d is a Lirly hr<,:vy burden, and tho deficiPn;oy which ha, to be Imde up frcm rPvc:nu r:!l~~lun: .-.. to £ ?08,047-a p"rc,_:ntage of 6.4; so th~·,t it de -~s soora as if vve are gcttinc, Ltirly near th0 limit of being- able to m<> '. the imrea: cd interest bill. I am glocl to note tLat the Groat Ncrthern Rail­\V ,-, v still m~ intains its po-;ition as being one of "tht_ h dt pa.yin.;. lines in tho SJ:ato, the rdurn on c•.pi~'ll invesl,,d last yew being £7 5s. 6J. p·r cent. It is a great piiy that the''' ar. man~ lines in tho Nor:.h whou returns ar' almost nil. In this connoci i.cn I hone t;"" , s >me of tho men "ho work on the >Grc·•. NortLern line will be amon;-st thc.s0 --r;, ho ... hare in tho incroa~-!S that are ~to r"' t:+:, n { 1 the railway men this year.

Mr. FOLEY : Are thor,J to b•' any increases to tho raihv;:1~· n1cn1?

::1Ir. \r"INST_\NLEY: Yes; the Minicter w~s good ~nough to say that some of thoco \YL.o \\ 2re 1nentioned on a previous occ:,,~,ion would be tdnn i .. to eon.<id,,ration. I h .pe they are, and that the considen,tion will hke a tangible form. Sympathy witho:.<t relief h:ts been said to be like mustard without b-:-Pf, n.nd the r~1 ihYay lllf'n \Vant sornetLirt; 1 :u;~ible in the shape of nn increase, parti­cularly th.:· night offic 'rs and the men en­vag-ed at the pumping stations. I am g-lrd to sao that the value of past.,r~l produdJ h:s incr£>1serl, and I am sure we would all b~ glad if tho incrca•e were larger. At the same time, the number of sheep dEcreased from 20, 740,9'31 in l ~11 to 20,310,036 in 1912-a de­crease of 430,945. \Vr have been repeatedly told that railway oommunioation would double the sheep-carrying capacity of the

[Mr. Winstanley.

country ; b'ut. in yicw of l he face that our sheep tappc ar tv be deere a \ing in nurnb~rs, it docs not look as if we require to g-o on 1-vith tho CDnGtructivn of the G, 8~ ~ \Y cstcn1 Railwav. Cattle increased from 5,073,201 in 1911 t;; 5,210,801 in 1912-an increase of 137,600. \Ye all wel~como tht <; increase, but, in viev, of ~he inc:easing nus":lber of !neat­works and the inorcacing demand thero will be for c.~.ttlo, that increafqJ i..:. insignificant, and it certainly doos not look as if we are goinr: to bo in a position to supply the world's m -r~,~t with L.-0£, c ·t we naturally exp-ected we "fn Llld {:0. Sc, :.ng the nu1nber of c~ttle in other cc~lntrit·.,,-particularly .\ m··.ri,, -is deere a ing-, it looks as if in the n0ar flrl ure, if the Inc,\tworks are going to do all we hnyo b0~n told tL. \"ill, the ca_ttlo in. f\ucc ·1i1n 1d -,·ill dcc'·e-,,; instead of in­cr-~ase. ~(lherc may b·J a rise in pric~- s, and, althoug-h that will bm:>:it tho--•' ongagc:d in tho · cnttlo indu 'try, it certainly will not benefit tho consunwrs of b< cf. If the dacs of ohean beef are over in c. country like Quoonslcin\.1-vvher>·· the people consume mo~·e he'·', perhaps, fb:m in any oth:n· ccuntry m thc v oriel-it will be dotrimeC~t;;l to tho people of thit Sbto. It wodd bo mnnh rnoro on­CNU-c~ing if there had been an incr<•>.se of EOO.OOO in our c:tttle and of 1,000,000 or 2,000,000 in our '-hrnp. Pcrh::us more in<··,_ nlicn.~:lc is the decrca£L~ in the number of i)igR. In 1911 we had 173.9J2 pig< and ktst veo.r we only had 143,695-a reduction of 3o 307. The Tr,easurer may well ask, " Why thi,, bio- f~lling olf in numbers?" in a country where 'it is w ea:v to produce food _for th!'3C f1nimals, whore it is so easy to d1s!)oc9 of the animals aft. r th~y an ferl. and where the nrices aro fairly p-ood. 'IVhati ver the rc~son mav be• t1,o fact remains that they sho\v D. cofi.:.id~r:-'.bio .tcduction in nun1bars, and it is one of the thing-s that wants in­quiring into, and, if it <;an be remedi,,d, the remedy should be apphi'd. Thr Tre·1sl\rer h•1s made one or two remarks on the mbJect of mining in the Financial Statement, and some critic"o:Ll. has been indulged in in con­ner tion vdth the hon. gentlc:11an's st1..t.0rnents. I just ''ant to say, in the first p~ace, that I do not think we oan <lfford to Ignore or to sneak slightingly of any of our. industr.i""· lYe- are fortunate in having such a vanety o£ indw~"l.ries and in not being tied up to one m· two. The inlurf' l., m:Jy to somo _exton,t .be different, but umloubtedl:; all our mdusJries depend more or less upon cad1 other. Tho mining ind~. <;;try to scm:" extr •1t d ---p~nds up?n oihAr ir:rlu·tries, and those otlw~· _mdustrres d ,p·nd to some •_xient upon mmmg. The ndnin1 indu:~h·y is one th.,t none of us can , fford to 'li<Tht. It has been re1watodly :· 'ntrd in this House that, when the. p_asto~·al industry wa · in a bad stab, the mmmg m­dustry came to the rest•te. Mining was pay­i ,~,~ell at that time, ancl it corbinly help:d tl•·' State t'J a >cry large e .. tent out of 1ts difficu1t'cs. \'le have heard a ~r:·eat dc:d nl-T't \Ycs+0rn Aur' raJia durin<; th1s _debate. PreYiou,q tv tlv; c~iscovery of sold tn. t.h~-zt Stn.h. \V P l:ern Au,trali;, v< a m:r;!J grble qn~ntity in .~..\r,·~ralia. Fo_r years It n1~1.de li' lo or no pro;Fess, and It was only after the di ;covm:v of gold and the con:,equent ] arge influx

0

of population that tho place b0c:an to make any prcJgrc.:g at dl. We find tha'' sine;, the gold yield dccrP :·Jed, otlwr industries have sprnng up, and the Sbte is now makin~ prog-rns in entirely other directions. We h:we therefo: o to take into consideration not only the diree 1- benefits which accrue from mining but also the in-

dio t Lcc:di Lact Yc" r the Y<11

C><l of th" Inn1; ·al ~utpv ~ of Qu~ci~sla nd. wa 1 £4,1'1'..>,355, so tn:tt IG rs no · nudl 1tmn In tho rcsourr :s of ih,., Statr. I rlo n,;; i_}jnk it is either "\vi.se. or rc<: ~-: :! ,'c io iJit one sec~ ion of Itllill11":' P:rarn,,i_:. ano~h,. --·· It ha,' bc(;n F:aid tlut' 1he Gt Vt..:.''lll1'?nt havD p,;id too nJ.uch atte1h ion to 601\:tnini_tg in the past; but I thirlk tLilt th· polic .. of past Governments has ::dw,.ys been to take >aJ mw h from the ~~Dh1 :-linin.~ incln~i:ry cs they could ~~nd giv:­as httle m rct1Fnc It should be borne in mind that thu c' are mines in the S7cttc which produc3 n ... ore tl<·n (''10 n1t: -I. The voliJe. o~ tl.~ ~ r·:)pper yi0ld is given as £1,6S·C,2C: .. b> t if ~ 1)1.:, _, of the copper-n1in:·s had to dc)wnd upon < CJptKr sJone, th?7 won: 1. nJt li a fat :ni·;·ht. D- 'no· pa1 'ly golrh-PIW)S l_)Grtly (,Jp.,)Cl'-TI1iLC'S, the:l arc n11lo to S'P'

1' along. Tho lH.:Jt :cear \'\" !S a

guod one E-O h:Y as coppor-1niniP J v, a.s con­eernod, and it would have bG ·n a rrpr·h better one if the Industrial Peace Act had been as valuab;e an in: ··.nmont in preventing indu-!Tial strife as tlw Gon:rnmont s:1id it would be, and if it h:1.d preventr ,j a lockout in the Ckmcurry dist1 ict 1md the smelters lnir'T shut doYil1 for two 1nonths \vhich mo.tcrially reduced th' outnut of c;nner in that di !rict. It i.• just a' V.·oll to rciu'cmbor tlut a drop of a few pounds in tho price of copper h •·. • shut down cc pper in Qu·- 0m. L.nd. As a matter of h"t. coppe;· was boo·:c­ing thirty y,•ars ago in tho self-c unc Cion­curry district. but owing to a slnmn in price, the Cl02 1Curry co:1pcr-Ininc -,Vf';·e dosed down and nothing was hoard of them for the next thirty years.

Thlr. LENNO:N: There was no railway then.

Mr. WINSTA~LEY: Quite so. They were 250 miles from a port; and, notwith­star.ding that fact, Cloncurry was a booming place, and doing g;·eat work at that time.

j),.Ir. LENNON : They werD getting gold, too.

:i\h. WINSTANLEY: ThBy ,, ere getting gold <:.•• wdl as copper, but they were d0nend­ing o:::t cop;Jer more than on tho gold. They ,,-ere t;.Ating a lar;;e amount oi copper at wry little expense and vt:ry little trouble. It just g'l"' to show t:1at none of the,e things .are really prrmanBnt and that the onD helps the other. In rcfDrcnoo to what has been ., aid abo·u~ Chari ,r•: Tow·ers: Charters ToT,·ers for the past forty yours has been worked as a goldfield and ha3 had verY little else to depe:1d on, ar:d I was sony that the dqmt)· lead<'r of tho Opposition should lPake the some,•,ha!·, scathing remarks he did about the deep-sinking scheme in connection with Charters Towers. It is quite evident bhat there is no goldmining in his electorate, other-"·ise he would not have said tho things he did ::-'1''-. I ho1d no brief for llny '',Yild-cat" speculation nor for people who try to get gold out of other people's pockets insteC~d of out of the gwund, nor do I hold a brief for any particub r soheme as far ·as sinking shafts is cone .. rued, bc1t at the samo time I do Fay th<1t Chari "'l'S Towers has contributed as much. and probJ,Uy more, to the re', enue of the Stato than any other city in the S+~,te, with tho exCPJtion of Brisbane, and the ,'1 nount r< ,~eivD:f back from the State ha•> b£c·n verv small indeed. As a matter of fact, \vhon Ch<utcrs To\vt:rs \Vas suffering from a water famine and wanted £10,000 or £12,0°0 fro?TI tho Government to build a dam across the river, the Government could not or wou'd not-at any ratD, they did not­advance tho money, and thD Charters Towers

Supply. 1299

people had to g:J to the bank and m,,ko their o•· n arrangements as far a' that matter was concerned. It seons to me both a fair and rcasonuble thin~, not on~y es fru as Ch-arter.~ Towers is concerned, but in regard to any mining field, that .;here thm·e is a fair and le~,;:tiuaie prc'pf'ct of g• tting gold, if the people cannot find the capital, that the Go.-orament should subsidise it.

:Hr. Tn:coDORE: This is not such a proposal as that.

:Mr. \YINSTANLEY: \Yo wiE seo what it is before D h.,ve finiBLed with it. In quite a num;_·er of instances the idea prevails thc,t v,hen what is called a grant i, given, the mon'ly is paid out-that :U,OG!J or £2,000 are sl::~J\·-·llc.l a;·t to ~ r;._~;plt•. J\u-,' ·-_:;·of the: i1'·-~ t, lc ! ' _~_or ~, :i ~:_ pointcJ out, V\:l n ed on subject, that £1:!.,000 had :1 grau1 d to C~L_rtc:rs To Drs, L;ut only p.<- t ot Cw-1-; ' ; 1 ·~ 'l paid.

gua1. ntcc tha·, not hal£ the a. ;_ ·.Lt has ~,upn paid over. },!! 6e Governmr·•:t do is to pay £1 for £1 of the month's lxpendituro, and thcc,o people who are spenJing the money 1lH1vo thems.·lves to c,mtribu7e. I know in one particul> r in te.nco l•Jy•·•·lf <~nd my lrtP colleague, Mr. Mullan, got a subsidy of £WO gn.ntcd to sink a shaft, and as a result. of that £500 subsidy thoro are half a do~~::1 1ninc·~ wo1~dng at tl>J pr,-'.-Jr:It time, thre8 of which a're on faidy good gold, so t 11d in that instance, at ccny rate, it was a good thing and a helpful thing. As regards this recent scheme, as I ha• e said already, I am not w<>dded to it, but I .am anxious that the men on Charters Towers at the prnent time, and their wives and children, if they <.an be kept there by any development taking place, that the} should be kept there. In regard to this particular scheme, an a?Jplication W(1S n1ade to ttho Gov~;rnment; and I would like to point out that even if the Government said they would grant the £fJ,OOO, the whole thing would have to be .di ens cd in this House heforo anything further could be done. TLew are infinitelv more ohjLdionable things in oOlcnection witb t.hD scheme, in my opinion, than th~'- mone­t:ny objection. There are some things that I D :n not favourable to, such .as the gr<l.nt­ing of 300 acn> oach, and the exe:nption from labour conditions. Tho point about it was that a geologist was sent up there, and I do not think it was a matter for a gDolo­gist to settle. It was a quc.,tion for a mining c11gineer.

Mr. THEODORE: A practical miner.

'\Ir. WINSTANLEY: A mining engineer as well as a practical miner, and those people thought that judgment had been pronounced before the cvidenoo had been given. I was of that opinion, too. If anything more could: be c.cid in fa\ our of tho scheme, then thoy shculd heve an op:1ortunity of saying it. I do not often agT< :• with what i l1o Govern­mult do, but I certainly think they did the right tl1ing in appointing this· board, ·as thD board is quite competent to deal, not only wilh this scheme, but with any other oohemo that may be sn,<>:g·~ 'ted. I am anxious, if anything can be done to help mining on Cha.oters Tow<.,·s-even if it means the granting of £60,000-I am anxious that it should be done. As to wheLil!.T the sinkin:;· of this shaft or the exhn' ion of th0 underlio is t':e best scheme, I think this board ought to be competent to determine, but to say that it is the easiest tJhing in the world to sink an underlie another 1,000 feet is not

Mr. Winstanley.!

1300 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

correct. There aro all the difficulties of ventilation to be considered.

Mr. THEODORE : There is not a shaft on Charters Towers down 3,500 fBet.

Mr. WINSTANLEY: There is one 2,500 feet on th<J vertical, and it would be a good bit longBr on tho underli<J, and it would be a difficult proposition to extend that Sihaft. I certainly think tho Government have taken a proper attitude, and if anything is said in favour of the scheme or another alternative scheme, then the board is competent to deal with it. r~'l:y own impression is that Charters Towers is not dep<Jnd<:mt on this particul8,r scheme. I believe there are opportunities for three or four good schemes. I was talk­ing to a gentleman not very long ago who had spent £1,000 in a particular locality, and he still thinks that locality has not had a fair trial. Them were half a dozen small companies working in that particular locality, but none of them were strong enough to get down into seitled country, and t.ne conse­quence was they came to grief. None of them did any good, but that gentl<' cnan still ihinks a shaft sunk in that particular place would come on to something good. As far as sinking this shaft on blind country is con­corned, l am not an advocate of what is known as blind shafts. It is just as well to ren1ember that, on some occasions, even a blind shaft comes off all right. The Brilliant P.C., one of tho fmest mines on Charters Towers, sunk without any surface indications whatever, and t<he men "ho put their money in it wero regarded as the biggest fools who over put their money into mining ven­tur<Js on Charters Towers. I do not say that that would be the result in every instance, but it shows that, apart from scientific data and geological strata, sometimes men do the right thing. This board will go to Charters Tov'\ ers .and hear evidence so as to be able to judge, ~.nd to a"certam the cost of sinking a circular or other kind of shaft and underlie as welL Tlwy ln:ve amp]P scope to J:nak-e full and co~_:_lpL\te invr,tigation, und I hope tha~, \Yhai~.vcr eLse the.;· do, they will do S')m.-thing '''hich will aJv:mco tho interests of Charters To\,,ers. There aro quito a nurnber of oth~r ,applin·;tl.-:..'11,_) in at the present tim•)--\Yhich J bcl:cyo are legitimate applications-in various parts of tho field. I 'am not one of those who think that Charters Towers is worked out. I know that, at the present time, things are down at a low ebb in legitimate mining; but it must be remembered that you cannot cntin·-ly separate the share market from the mines. While nobody may have any inten­tion of doing it-certainly the Government has no intention of doing it-if they gi\·e anyone a. subsidy and help them to do any prospecting, immediately any improvement takas place the share market is affected. What I am anxious about is that the men who have worked there for many years past, e.nd who have reared their families there­and Charters 'Powers is certainly not a bad place to live at-if the Government arc pre­pared to help things along, and keen these men there o:md provide them with wm~k, they ought to be allowed to do it. I think Charters Towers has a sound claim, not only for what it has done in t1he past, but for d1at its prospects are at present, and for what th<Jy hope to do in the future, and I hope that the findings of the board will b0 such that we will ,have prosperity again.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS : Hea~, hear !

[ 11[ r. Winstanley.

* Mr. MAY (Plimlers): 'I wish to make a, few remarks upon the Financial Statement. It is the usual thing for members to say a few words, and, if you have nothing else to do, it is as well to talk to your elector~ for a little time-it is commonly cvJkd work­ing the parish pump, or rolling the log.

An HONOURABLE MEMBER: Do you moan to say you are logrolling?

Mr. MAY: Eve;;:y time I get a chance I would logroll for the bPnefit of my elec­torate. (Laughter.) Most of the financial members of the House-thos<J who are ac­quaint8d "'ith figure '.~have gone into a vast amount of interesting data, but when they have finished you are just as much fogged as \vhen they started. (Laughter.) That is not the fault of hon. members who give us those figures; it is because we do not follow thorn closely enough, and do not take that intere't in financial matters that we possibly should. There hav,' been some remarkably fine '·pcec!le3-cspecially the one given this afternoon. I do not wiHh to scratch any­one's back, but the han. membPr for 1Iur­rumba, "ho spoke this afternoon, gave a very fine speech wich rer:ard to figures. I stopped as long as I could li, toning to the figures, till my brain got so du!i that I had to walk out to get a little relief from this mf;s' of figures. (Laughter.)

Mr. BO'IVMA:i": You have survived.

Mr. J\lA Y: I have managed to survive for a short tim~, but how long I will sun·i\-c I do not know. (Laughter.) The hon. mem­b,-r for Qucenton dealt with tho question of the granting of a laa'G an,,unt of money to a syndicate which t, ishes to go in for YU'Y deep sinking on Charters To,,·ers. In the first placP, they have taken tlw regular pleasure ground from the ''hole of the people of the town. As the han. member remarked, whether they can "ork from the undor!i•;, and do equally ,as good work as th,,y can by sinking a shdt on the people' .. , pleamre ground, is a matter we carnot decide udil we h:,n·c J:<'crived po·.itivu informat'on from the mining- <'':pert. I think the Gm·ernmcnt are doin~ a vdse thing in delaying this ques­tion until thH! havf' received full infAr?lution as to whirh ,\-ill be th0 b<.'st n"Pt~lO,_l kr this scheme. Whether they will subsidise tl is svndicate £1 for £1 r<>mains to be S"C'n. I <l"m sure the Government will act [n the ·wisest Inann{'r y,-ith regard to the expendi­ture of public mmF.y-they will not throw it awa'' like throwi:;r: slush into a bunket­and, therefore, I am~ with the hon. member for Q,ucenton in what he has Rftid about the .ocheme. 'l'here is another little firld which I wish to 1efr-r to-that is Mount Emu. It w:ts formerly in my eler'orate. but now it is not. Thoro are indications at ::\Iount Emu which show th,,t it may be at a ftt1 ure period oquoJ to Charters To\:rers.

1.1r. BOWl\L\:.i: I hope you are a good prophet.

JHr. ~~IAY: ..~.\ cursory ropvrt 11·as giyon by tho tninin~ inspe{LOI: who ... ;vas H-·nt out from Cloncmry to g-o through thoe.e fidds­they are in a small way at prosc:nt. They ha ,.e batteries on the field ; th< y lm "" not got thorn into thorough working order; but in a short time I hope that there will bo a development such as will surprise Queens­land. -The sam<J thing may happen there as took place on Charters Towers when the first men went on that field.

Mr. KIRWAN: Let us hope it will.

Supply. [ll SEPTEMBER.) Supply. 1301

Mr. MAY: The miner lives in hopes. Many good things are found out by the goug~r, the .origin'!-] miner, who keeps on w_o~kin~, at trmos w1thout food, and suffering difficulties and unpleasantnesses in the back country. Bush fires may come along in the d!strict whe~·e he is, and upset the whole of h1s calculatwns, and sometimes he does not know where he is.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: \Vhy is it oolled Mount Emu?

Mr. MAY: The Mount Emu Goldfield is so-caller] from a station called Mount Emu where there was at one time a vast numbe;. of emus, and the shooters used to go round for the emu skins. There is another matter in connection with Mount Emu which I dare say will come before the Minister for Railways. There should be communication with the ne:trost railway station. Pentland Railway Station is only 50 miles from Mount Emu, whereas Hughenden is 80 miles away.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Do you want a branch line to it:

Mr. MAY : We will make it a branch line in time when the field is develoned. I am not advocating it right from the inception ?f tl~e fie]~. The Duchess line ha~ paid from 1ts mceptwn. I advocated that line; and I also advocated the Mount Elliott line al­though I had to vote against it on acc~unt of its being a syndicate railway. When we

come to the Estimates we shall be [7 p.m.] able to discuss the various items.

I am very glad to see that the year ended up with a surplus, although it was a small one. I think it might have been more than it was. I was very pleased to see the great improvements that have been effected at Goodna by the present Govern­ment. I was up there the other day, and as I had not been there for four years I noticed that considerable imnrovements had been carried out since my- previous visit. It is not a nice place to be in; it makes one feel rather morbid after going through the dif­ferent wgrds there, but the. Government are doing all they possibly can to make the people there as comfortable as possible. I was glad that we had a little recreation while we were ther0 which had the effect of taking off the effect of the morbidnesfl which we felt, otherwise we would have felt it for a few days afterwards.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: What re­creation did you indulge in?

Mr. MAY: We had a cricket match. Some \ery fine imnrovements have been carried out there, and the Government in that instance, if in no other, are doino- ali they possibly can for the unfortun'1t: in­mates. I will make a passing reference to the mining, because when we get to the Mining Estimates everyone will hanl some­thing to sav on them. I sav if it were not for the copper products coming from the great Cloncurry field the mining statistics would have been very bad, and the a:11ount of money coming frcm mining would havn been very much les; than what it is. I notice in the returns of over,ea exports that the porc,ntages are given as follows :-Agri­cultural, _8.22 per cent.; pastoral, 80.12 per cent. ; mmeral, 9.03 per cent; other exports, 2.63 per cpnt. ; total, 100 per cent. If it had not h0,cn for the products of the Clon­cu_rr_y fi~ld the over ea <":ports, so far as mmmg Is concerned. would not have totalled 5 per cent. I consider that the Government should push out more railways in that dis-

trict. They should build a number of small railways and open up the country fully. If the Government opened it up with railway,; it would be the salvation of Queensland in the dry tim<>. The Cloncurry field extends 200 miles north and south, and 150 miles east and west. Th;mJ are a few big com­panieg working there, and there are a few others in prospect. At the present time they have only scratched that mineral field, and there are immense possibilities if it is only properly opened up. If we have more rail­ways, it will mean more revenue for the railways and increased rents from the land that will be taken up. I quite agree with hon. members who say that there are men here who cannot get the land they want. The people are hungering for land that has been promised to be thrown open for th•' past few years. We are told that there ar8 not enough surveyors to throw the land open for selection at a greater rate than at present. The Government, however, say that they have got plenty of men. If they have, why the dickens don't they send them up there? (Laughter.) All that Boulia country wants opening up. \Ve have got the railway extended to Selwyn for mining purposes, and to the Duchess for mining purposes, but ther!l are thousands of acres there which were formerly carrying cattle but which are now getting sheep on them because they are getting closer to the rail­way. That will return mar!} direct revenue to the Government by means of the rail­ways and rents. There are eome holdings there of 100 square miles, and there is a company interestea in holdings covering 2,500 squanJ miles. It is far better to have this land opened up for selection and then, instead of having only one man on that vast area, we will have dozens of selections. I hear that Warenda is to be thrown open. I hope the Government will send up sur­veyors and spend more money in that direc­tion. Richmond Downs was supposed to have been thrown open in December last, and it is not open yet, and the peopl!l there are dissatisfied with the delay.

Mr. KIRWAN: Fill up the waste spaces.

Mr. MAY: Yes; we have plenty of waste spaces to fill up there. I would like hon. members to take a trip up there to have a look at the land there. If they appointed me as their manager, and paid all expenses, I would show them round and let them see all the land that is waiting to be occupied there. We should do something in the way that Canada has been doing and give land frco to the bona fide selector. \V e could let him have the land for five years rent free, or at a peppercorn rent, just to preserve the right of the Crown, in order to encour­age him to select the land. I am sure if han. members saw that land and had the money they would take up the land them­selves. (Hear, hear!) We always have a lot to say about our agricultural colleges and State farms, and as we have some of the finr,st land in Queensland in my electorate, we should im l.rue;c farm,~ rs how to go about selecting their land ther!}. Farming is not what it U"ed to be. It used to be active hu,·:bandry, and now it is a practical soience, and V'e should give every information to our farn1t.:rs in practi.t.:al and scientific Inanl\Br, and enable them to far·m their lands in a proper hlannel'. \Yith regard to education, I reallY thi1.k we want more itinerant teachers in this Stal<J. I happen to have had a letter from a fripnd of mine who

lrfr. ]!{a,y.]

!302 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.]

speaks on behalf of an itinerant teache,·. This gentleman has to go over some 50,001) squar·J miles of country, and it is only with the greatest difficulty that he can do it moro than i.hc·ee tim··> in a ypar. The parents of the children to whom he gives instruction ~re very R:ratdul, and they think that it 1s a rnove in the right dir£.ction to havr: itinerant t.0ach0r.•. It was started many years ago on tho .s .. lgg'!:~tion of tho forrnE:r 1'1('Il1l'''r for "f:.~lonn0, "\vLo got one :;~maher ap'pointed. Since then, they were inJreased to three, and aftM that to twelve, and now there are sevc1.teen. Dut &9Vente:t n are not enough for an area like the baokbloeks of Queencland. I may just mention here part of this letter, which says-

" The district to which I refer is Richmond. It is 50,000 square mileo. Portion of the McKinley district has been cut off and put on to the Rich­mond area, hecause there is a little bit of H'lttlement going out to the \Vt st."

Th_e McKinl<>y man has to go farther west. It IS a vast area to cover. A certain allowance is made to him for hor"c and irap, and he hw; to take a Loy with him. If the Education Department c·mld sc•o ih '·'ay cleu h give t~em a. motor-car, instead of going round four times m a ycetr, they ·.mid be able to go round six tim ·s, and po'. ;ibly seven. They hwe very long sb\"'i' Without water some­time'', t~nd they ul-o melt • .. ·ith many, many disabilities in going round these vast areas. Bomctirws you g~:t into mud and slush, a!;d you do not h:n·e ;;n opporbmity to pi<·k up the lc,t time th"t yJu would have if you had a motor-car. Horses can travel out there, but then, as I know, tLc"",T traY"-'l 1night"'F Flo\'. I have been in th..tt c0untrv .,,hcn'·votr could 'rctvel only 4 mile, a <hy, [mel then you lnd to shove 1nost of tLe ti~1o. (Laughter.) If tl:oy h.:td

1a n1otor-~<<t, they oould vory s0on

pwk up tnc Io,t hr;Je v. hen the roads were dry--and "e hu ve some of the l•cst roads in Qucenshtnd in that b:-~ck country-and, ·t~10refo~c! I am \ Cl'.} urcent in imprC'~::!ing on tlw Mn:rst ,. that he should estal bh the motor-cars in districts th ·t will stand them instf ,t,d of rdvin~ on the old-L .. hioned hor,- 2~ '''1c! tr '\' o know that the· ue fit'., d for the WJi ., because, if tho.y '~.ere not, v:hy oho·1ld e. ~ry e•wattor anti big Hl~< tor tak' ~'P the rnotor-cu nn.J Je,, vo his horse a;,d !nt ;rry n ~ lw1_1v}?, " 'rho proof of t_he pu?ding Is m lhe <' . keg, and I am ;. 1re tLat. If the department 2: ave o, trial to one of thc"n in 1 hG far 'vYcJt. \ n di<1~riots, i h3y v"ould all h~t.ve then1, and \VOn ld bo ablo to do mor.J dficivnt ~o .. vic;,than th0y arc doing at the pn··c•nt l u"c .U;ey are a boon to the people 1n the back country. ~he Pm.:uEH: 'Jry impre, ion is that we are

tryu~ 'J eac cr b·· o in that direci ion no\'{.

Mr. MAY=. I r<'ally hop·· they arc, but they aro not tr3 mg t:1:·:.1 in my diltrict. Now the Premier nwntim1:< it, r lia•,e a h;ni ide.], m:~.· •'£ that th-.. re is somcchin'" of +hat sort gDln.r~ Otl. Lu>t yeo r an amount of :':100 we 3 PC:o,v~do\ for t 1<e member for t5'e Chi!lagJe {l._.J,rwt Lor t.ho purpose of g'eU1n~ ~,·Jlnr,J::lo to go and inspect the u:vcs there. I men· tioncd at the time that thoro also 'Vcre ca Yes in tho far \S'r.,.t, at Camoowcal. That is about 8,,, far _1 esf; ~-{_you. ~8..'1 go; it is :pr{Jt:y ~.o:oll :~nn(l< ~- n, anrt ... 1tnr1 a. fE\V nulF s of t~1e 8 JuJl1 Austnli m bor:ler. ·whee: I mentio:lPJ it, a tiJ He of dc;:-ision went through th~ wl ole T~onso. i\1 'mhers did not say I wa.~ a, prev;mcator of the truth, but they doubted ; .wt tho.·o ' ; .. ·o caves there of the extent I

f.:J.r. iifuy.

,ncntioncd. I have ta1.:en the opportunity to ha vc some corrcspondenc,'? with a teacher named :Mr. Keys, who now is at Loganlea, and v:as once a teach• r at Camooweal. He is uost onthuiaqtio about l'1em, and he has g-iven about a pag-e about thorn in this book, "Pocket (.,~ucPn>·1anc1," edib··J by Mr. Nally, cf tho Government Touri,,t Bureau. I shall read some of it. It s,.j ,_

"The fol~ J\Ying description of the c .. tves ncar C:-tn1oowc rt-1, N orth~w<':·,t Queenl':-land, is supplied by T. P. Knys :- .... After v, :1llur:.:r f.On1e distance, our progrf'::s was barred by :dJ cnormGus rent or hole in the floor."

This i ., after t'tc y L •d go; 9 down 50 feet into the caves.

" Retracing our steps to the opening in the floor, we fastened on our second ropG arcd a~·ain de< ~nncled, having first thrown down a lar.,;e b.Jl of cotton soaked in kerosene, to t< ;t tho atnwsphere and light us on o•n· way. On reachin:o the second floor, we found several c:>vc3, which we explorcci till our pro:~re21 was again lc1ockod by a .,, cond hole. In connection -,.,,ith this subject, it is, I think, worthy of note that the ltoddand, Pas7oral Com· pan:v h:vc put down sweral bores in tho nci2hbourhood of Camoov,cal, which have struck watr-r-an inexhaustible supply of ari:c3ian \Vatcr-at depths yarying from 25') to 300 fc~t proving conclusively (in connection with' the above) that below the surface of this arid re"ion tLerG exists a vast re<crvoir of pure, fr('sh \Vater of many square miiH in extent, and at a 11·tady uniform depth bdow the surface."

I think it ouly goes to prove that ~n c.xpert s~1oulcl I.e FBnt r:o there to CXJ'1line them and report to the Government. In later years, when the line to Port Dar;<"in is built, there is no doubc thct m·my of the touri,tc through that country romd CamooY:eal, when it be­comes a hrgo ccn~rc, will ··top thne and examine thorn u.s a fc~turc of the di-,trict. Then the p, •.r'day Tableland go;·.. omc dis· tanco ;nto ~or 1: rn Tt rritory, ~nd on 1-\Yon Do'i'\"l1:) 1~ .. are son1othin:; O\ :-r t,v,:..ntv-six uif{ ... rcr-' , of from 2U to 2~0 feet in depth. It sllOW,; that there mn,t b,, an illimit­; blo ·•qpply of water there at very small depth:~) and I think that. if a -,i,_:ntist \\ere rent tPJ thcrc- to rxa1niiw the C)tUr 1-y, it \Vould bo of-cnorn101n Ya.luo 1-,> thur.3 ... ,,-ho \Vant to take up th ;t land :,n,J H. bO 11 lw w,:nt to soe tho. coun,·:y. \ViJh r' nd to raih.·<'ys, I noti( ·~ ;-hat our lin.: h..tve }··,~n carnin:-r good money all ovor Qu;·cn __ ~land. Tho No1 ··:lltll lim, :uve cecn P~c-ing excoptionally wdl. Of coursP, thore is one t~tle blacl.-;: spot in this rc:ord, :::··1 that is Lo railway fro:•: Julia Crenk i·1 Clo.·curry, which has not paid, but l .. 1s got. a littk bit IY;hind. When the line ·.-:as •.tar! ·d it ···as c·1rii< ;pated ~ 1 1c.t far greater rovcnuo ,~~onld l···' obtained from it tb:tn has b:•cn ihf' La'''· 1'he r;-; •,on •·Jhy the line did not Pf<•' as it ·,ac "'l" ·ted it wonld ; that,

·orn u it got in:.o C!onnrry, the Great >tralian l\lino ~hut c1 JWll. Th· Grc<lt Aus­

~l ·Ean I\Ii: e ~y;id y,,.lwn th0y had to st:t1d all t 1wir or all the way into Ric'.mond. and yet, as so~n as tho line \L'. carried int-0 Cloncnrry, tb--._t b~·-· n1iL·-_' shut dJ\Yn.

Tl~·J f; .C\_.2- .,~_y FO~ h2t1~T·'n Jniia Crr_,ck £4. 16e. 7d. k•'t Y' :u-.

R \U,"\'AY.3: Th:~ line and Clone' rry paid

Mr. HAY: I am very ple:;acd to hear that, and I hope the hon. gentle:nan will average that roturJC with the returns for the

Supply. [ ll SEP1:EMBER.] Supply. 1303

last three :years, and let the guarantors off lightly. At the same time, I admit that the people went into the matter \cith their eyes open, though, of cvurse, they did not know that the Great Australian l\1ine >Yas going to shut down; snd I told thFa at tho time that the:• could D•1t have choir pudding and eat it. They have got their pucldin:s, and it he s not paid during tho fir. t couple of years. However, th" .i'.li.1ister ".ill sec his wa.y clear to hunp tho whole c, __ rnii g SlllCG

the line \\T[t-3 buiJt. The S•:CRETA•1Y FOR RAILWAYS: \Vo cannot

do that. The :iYlalbon-Duches- did not pay as you said; it only paid £1 9s. 3cl.

:Z.Ir. MAY: It ;,1mt hayc paid more than that. But >~e can dis·JU s that matter on the Estim~• tes. I wi.-h now to refer to another matter. \Vhcn a man r•.·pre-·onts a constitu. ency in tho fCLr \Vest h·· is not suppc•scd to devote the whole o£ his attentcon to his con­stituc''-~' ; he has to direct his attention to the '\\ holo ol {~r ~CE ~land. ll~ is, first of all, a l118t:..ibor for Qu• end and, st t.Jndly nlBn1),or for tho constituent] \vhich he represurns, and thirdly mcmbPt for tho'; ,,, :w returned him. (Laughter.) I notice that a petrol motor-car has been put on the railway on tho south side of the rivu, and I Fas in hope> that we should get O'lC on the nmth side. \V e could do very well ,,, ili1 one o£ thc',·2 auto­cars on 011,~ of nur 'uburban lines on the north side, :..tnd i,:; would b• a gr""'llt-, con­Yenicnco to omo members cf Parlian.unt. At :Caglo ,J u· .·ction we ha ,.,_ a long tinco:; to 'vv.it bet\vecn tr ... tinA in the aftc·, noon. There is a train ilt 1.47 n.m. and another c.t 2.2 p.m. Tho ,e arc a litHe too early fen· l11C''lt people, ~Ctnd ihero is noG anoth .~r train nn:, il {;] ,_ ht minute~ n~.st 3. If a train vvn. rnn beh.vC. n the 2.2 and 3.8 trains, m· mbers of Parlitn:cnt who li;P in that district wonld b8 able to get to Hri -:bane in su.flicient time to ro~tch the House ·,·.'ithout haYing to wai~ ab 'Ut in to\~ n for h:tlf an h·Jur, o:;:ld it would also SUL a Yo.'.St LV.l11 :, of laUE'~, ~"h_), :-'S ;. 1'.,11

as. they h:-ye t:td d!'_'ir 1nnch, h~lY""' JlO'.; ~-) hm·,·y :md bustle to catch the 2.2 p.m. train, tho 3.8 p.:!.':._._. train boi~ IT t')_O L:t.· fo_:_· thP~-:..1 to ~;·.:3t to _:}\vn, do th ·jr b~r 'H ~. <l rr·u_u:n home earl,· cnoug-11 to luok >aft·'r the dinner. I th.:nk HiJro sLmlcl bo consid.crd:l ' cltera· tion in tho \:·hole of tlw suhurL:m traffic, and that ;dl carriagr·e shou !d be of one class on tr·:,ll~. n~nui-,:. f:;·o_ 1 Ip•.,;i<l t:-) S~ilHl­gatr•, BrichaLo h Pinkonba, and from I;lol· bonrlle ~ :· ·- t0 ~'"._Ln, hunk nnrl Cl' ','c\L'.lltl. Anyone t, ~--YfPing in B'adgc~·'s tramc:trs does not care ''he:> sits or s7 .1nds by him, and there ~1ouirl bo onl:, one clP'd of·c -rri1~:5e on our suburban lines. I wont home last night .a little earlier than usual, catching the 10.10 train. While waiting on the railway plat­form I war.Jhod six trains como in, and I noticed th:tt thor,_, \vero.not a dozen first~cla, "3

passonrrers in the wholo of tho·)o "ix h·ains. Members of tho Go.-ernmont call th0:.1"clvP,, den1D"~ \rhy, then, t:o thc·y ro rL:t~ <._~w suburban trains dcn1o'".ratic, and h,;n o cnly one cl:·:" on 111en1, ,,·ith one Cf rria(,:c for fm1okers and th~ c·"hcrs ordinary c·ll'rir JCS?

1v1r. ''>T'Vr- :s: \Yh;;- should 'mokcrs lun·e a special carriage?

1\Ir. J.\L\ '{: I Ql11 not ~; '"rticu.L:t::· .'bout their haying spe,· i~:l c.:trdt :s·;:-., if <k lad.i,.-·) do not mind smoking; but su1c J: it i a reason· able thing th~ t v.ye r:hcu1d h:_;,\-o only one class of car:;_.i · .-~c- on our su· n·han lint--.!

The I-Io:.t.-=: SECRETARY: IIas_._._'t tho Con1lni3-sioner 111acle a .sL l t '· ith the RunL bank •ra,in?

Mr. MAY: It is a very small st.:<rt--only like a little drop in tho ocean.

Tho Ho:uE SECRETARY: All be ,;iullings are snJ,Jl, aron't they ?

:;";Ir. ::VIA Y: Yes, but this is a L--_ighty SL.1all one. ThPrC is one 1nattci· l>·ferrcd to towards the end of the Fiu~·ncial State­mont for which I take a cerlotin <thl0lll1t cf credit to n1~·pr~If. I sLall r, ·td t:w 1L :.:a~ graph--

" I h•. ,-e mnch pleasure in rlra-.,-ing the attention of hon. Lemb. rs to the fact that 'pez:ial provision ha;r b~cn made for the iunior clerks and cadet clerks of tho ser­~-ice. Founcrly, junior clPrks wer,3 lj3.id at £50 per annnm, and, aH ~r a pl·oba­tionary period of six month:cr, _£60 per ann urn. No further auto1n:; tlc llh<'·.:'aS-?9 obtained. No'v juniors are to con1n1on;.;e &,t £60, and :.ue to bo .adYancod as follo\\J :-

£ .After 6 n1onths' sa/isfacto1·y S'~ryice 70 After Lb y<.u's r-atisfactory ,o.er,ice 80 After 2nd Y' ~r's satisfactory fDrvico 100 After 3rd year's satisfactory f .'rvico 110

'' Junior d- rlc, '-'J.lready in ~' :; service, ,., ho ha vo scrvc'd three Y"ar-- as classified officcLz, and who ha.-e attain,,d the v,ge of tv. enty-one years, are aL v to recnve £110 p<:,. annum ·from 1st July, 1913."

l\Ir. KmwAX: A plrnk o•1t of y-l:u· plat· form.

:\Ir. MAY: I do not 11ieh to cbim the whole o~ the Cl'0dit for th. t, bccau.; · I know tho.t iic could not have L; on done >Yithout tho support of the Govcrnn:.ent·. I a1:1 :rery gl d that they h<1ve taken the. _very s_hg~t hint given thc·m, ancl done '' httle blt m this direction, but I mmt say that they are not vc~rv o-alla.nt in that e.y•y have not ex~ tended the:' e tme 'pri, ilego to the laJy officers

as the-;' have gi> en to tho male [7.30 p.m.] oflic;ers, HoweYcr, tl:is i.< a small

be_ITinnrng, and possibly we !nay read in the U'Xt Financial sr 1tCD1EY'1t that the ladies are included in the general rise given to junivr clerk". I haYe alwac s held that if ladies do thP same work n P;en they should rocei,-e Pqud pay. Th·'re a,'! a few things in tho .I~Ftimat: ' t~E~ I <;-bJeC" to. Ron.e of the h!g;>l;·-"md ofhuals 'lonld not rec,-·iv,_., f\>1 la.r!!o inc:er.ses thai· they ~:re l~nt do7"J·, fc but d1-e pr·Jp('f tirn0 iJ _dP'll \\lth ~~ (>,e ill b-" \:hen <1.c' r~:i]!J[L:.€:. ~10 1)1 {ore n~.

Ivh-. TROUT (EnJ(J(J ·m): Hon. member·, and th~ people of <;Jneensla!1CI. arc to be co_n­gTatulRtcd on hav1ng yccciv,'d ::.-lch a satiS­fr:c·:~n·y l'01Jo.rt frmn dw Tro.af:~rcr, and I feel perfH:ly 1tidi"d that, 1f 1t >yere not that y e arc \verkin~::,· on party h11es, \VB wo:1ld haYo had cunp:ra.tul~ . .tions fro1n all sides of the House. I han> li:,toned Yery at1-::--11tiv-0ly to -~he criti:-i ·n1 t}u-.+ lL- :1 eon1e froin tho Opposit~"n benchc··, and rnore par~ ticnlarly to the criciciem of the ~o!lourable and lea,ned ]cadPr of tho Oppo-1bon, and I ma: t rav +]J t I c, 11sidcr tb 1t ho <~cvoted :~ v,1rv f.:. i1: a:·:-onnt of bis tlr:•~ to u~'lcating :_-or 'en--'l, avf·~1rlng to 0du< :ri--0--·this side of th:1 !Jop.;e in rcg·.-:rd loth, L:---.~t ... ·1r pl..ttfo_;_·n1. Pb·b~~IB I r,J'C~Yed a certain a.n~ount of information frrun the ].,,.1. rrcnb·:r, H~ f:'J f.ar as ho cave E'1 :J u:ndC'r,.,ta::·d th."t ho IS q".ute in acc({l'd ,vit!1 tho polio:,; of ti1D ]at{~ Federal G:.JYrl'n1Ul·nt -which rosoh-, . ir 1f into ~his: th.1t, if at ~ny tiln3 it 5hcllld be.. the g·ood fortuhe of tho~~2 lwn. L ·n:tcrs sitt'<11L, on tho

Mr. Tro~·t.~

1304 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Opposition b£'nches to ocrupy the Treasury bonche', the platform of the Federal Labour party is to be carried out in QueenBland­which means preference to unionists and all the r,,,, of the platform. I am pleased to know that the Government have seen their way c]ep,r to increase the salariBs of a number of the lower-paid officers. I prefer !1 aving tho increases which are to be given to the higher-paid officials until I hear the explanation that is to be given by the re­spective Ministers. Whilst speaking of the salaries, I understand that th!l salary of the Under Secretary for Agriculture is to be increased, but there are a. number of officers in the department who ha.ve verY respon­sible duties, and who have been a number of years in the employ of the Government, a.nd there is no mention made of any in­creases to then. I sinc!lrely hope that the Minidt<Jr will look into that matter. There are nu~n Viho have been sixteen, seventeen, and ninct.r~en years in the departrnent, and their salaries are just a trifle more than tho pa}- of slaughtermen.

:i\lr. HUNTER: How much is that? ::\fr. TROUT: .£200 a. year. Mr. KIRWAN: And very important work,

too. Mr. TROUT : Our slaughtermen are

getting within lOs. a WBek of what the in­spectors are getting. Knowing those men as I do, I must sa.y that tho department has every rea.son to be proud of them. They not only hold responsible positions, but they hold positions for whiQh they should b., pa.id ~alaries whicl~ would leave them perfectly mdependent m the performance of their duties, and would free them from any temp­tation to do other than tlwy ought to do.

Mr. RYAN: Do you think there IS a. danger of that?

:Ylr. TROUT: I believe that eYery man should be paid a. fair sa.la.ry, a.nd while I do not wish it to be inferred th~t any of these men would acc~Jpt any consideration or any bi·ibe, I maintain that they should be paid sa.laries that would place them above anything of the sort.

HoNOURABLJ> ME;I!BERS: Hear, he!Lr!

:\h. TROUT: \Vhile on this subject, I would just like t<:> refu to an interjection I made when the hon. member for Brisbane wa.s spea~ing c:n the Railways Bill. The hon. memi)('r caJd-

" He trusted that the Railway Depart­~J:e~t ":onld not bto known. as a swPating ll''t!tution. There were mstances of a. differr nee of lOs. or 15s. per week in regard to the wage,, paid for the same class of work.

" JYir. CoJ 110: For the same class of \;ork?

" :Mr. Trout : Is it the same class of n1an?

"Mr. KIRWAK: Did the hon. member in-innate that .all tho men in the depart­ment Wll'G waster,, and that they should l!e put on a. lovv-,--: \' \Vago? Did he surr~ ~~·Dst ~h!lt t~;c Connub,ion0~· en1ployed a Jnt of lllCOlllpotonts or ne'er-do-\vells ?"

TL~ CHAIR:'IAN : Order ! The hon. ~1e1nbr-r i , nnt , 11~ orll0_r in quoting fl·orn

Ilun.,ard of d1.i-, sesston. Mr. GILLIES: IIc gjt at JOU that time. Mr. TROUT: I am f<n·rv that I cannot

say what I wished to say; but I was not

[1lfr. Trout.

aware that I could not refer to this ;matte1·. The hon. member for Eacha.m says that the hon. member for Brisbane got at me this time. If taking a mean advantage is getting at me, then certainly the hon. member did got at me.

Mr. RYAN : Don't sug·gest that.

Mr. TROUT: I do, bece1use I think the hon. member knows me W£11 enough to know that I did not mean any such thing. The hon. member is ,a gentleman who oontinually says that he does not wi'h to misquote e. man; but at the same time the hon. member said that ho knew that, when there was no wages board, I was paying Ss. a day to single men simply for brushing a. paddock. I simply say tili..at to show that I a.m not in favour of a. low rate of wage, and I will giYe you my reasons for not being in favour <Jf a. low rate of wage. The flr"t is, that I do not think it is right for any person, whether it be the Government or a. private indiv:dual, to take advantage of his position and pay a lower rate of wage than he is able to pay. Secondly, I believe that it pay.; to pay a {).ecent wage. What I meant to ooy, and wha.t I say now, is-and I will not bat k down from it~that the Government should pay tho mte of wage that is paid outside, and they should see that they get a class of labour equal to what persons out· side get. I am not a believer in the Govern­ment, as employers, being what may be termed " a charitable institution." There ia 'another matter I wish to refer to, ;mel it is a ma.tter that affwts my own elcctora.te. As most hon. members, more particularly those hon. members who have been in thP House for any length of time, know, some considerable time ago i't was determined that a. Govern· mont House be built in Victoria Park. A sum of money was spent there in laying the foundation stone of Government House, e.nd last year £5,000 was placed on the Esti· mates in connection with tha.t work. That money has not been spent, nor is there any amount placed on the Estimates this yea.r for a similar purpose. I want it to be under­stood that I <tm not here for the purpose of advocating that money should be spent simply for the purpose of being· spent. I da not want it spent because it is in my olec· tor ate; I would advocate money being expended if I thought it right that it should be expended, whether it was in my own electorate or not. But I do not wa.nt that Government House business to lx·, as it were, a bunch of carrots d+.mgled in the electors' eyes fr<Jm time to time. A certain sum of money 1has been expended there, and I would like to see some use made of that po•cition. I do not know what may happen. Thing; change so rapidly that the time may come '·'-'hen it Y:ill be druidf',l to put the Univereity theJY• and shift Government House back aga'in to tlw Domain. I would like the GoYcrnmcnt to con ,ider this matter, be­cause I <tm perfectly satisfied that if the time should ,;rriYe when it is nece,,sary-I am quit0 StU'<" I am not anxious for that tim.P to arrive-for anothe:· gentlernan to hkc the p),.cP of tho present Governor, Sir ·william ::\IocGregor, I fe0! tha.t the present Gm'crnment House would not be suitable, more particularly if he h<td a family and intended to do any entertaining. \Ve have heard a good deal about me<tt trusts, and I am rather sorry the ihon. member for Murilla is not in his place. When speaking on the Addr<''S in R0ply, that hon. member said:

Supply. [11 SEPTEMBER,] Supply. 1305

thut if the price of cattle were increased by £1 per h~ad, meat need not be any dearer. Let me say that if cattle were £1 per head dearer, then meat would, of necessity, be dearer than it is at prec8nt. Whether this meat company came here or not, the day of cheap cattle and cheap sheep has gone by. Tho world's demand has overtaken the supply, and we need not look for cheap cattle. While on the meat trust, I may say that I ihad it during the last CommonwPalth ·elec­tion-and I suppose many other bon. mem­bers on this side had it thrown up to them­that we were favouring meat trusts and big combines. This is not the case so far as I am concerned, but, as the bon. member for TownsvilJ.e said last night, so long as these p·eople con1pJy \vith our la\VS, I clo not knD\V that WD (an do anything to prov •nt them coming here. I do not believe that the Go­Y(•rnnl{''lt. that I have the honour of being conner' HJ V':ith has an~_ desiro to ::eo any trust taking undut: advantage of its position, and I would like to see such m<lchinery put on the srotute-book that would give the Go­vernment power to deal with these trusts. If pos&ible, I would like to see an Anti-trust Bill brought in during this session. Those are my feelings in regard to that or any other trust. I am not hero to s]leak of myself-I am speaking in the interests of the consumer and for the general welfare of Queensland at large. (Hear, hear !) I would not raise a finger to assist any com)>any that I thought was going to take undue advant­age of its position. To say that :you can do away with trusts is unreasonable, because a trust tih.at does not take undue advantage of its position can he of great ascistanco to the pcopk.

J\>Ir. FOLEY: Did you en'r scu one that did not·~

Mr. TROUT: Yes. The amount of money that is spent in many trades in Brisbane, on <lccotmt of overlapping, is sufficient to warrant men forming themselves into com­binations to prevent that overlapping. The hon. member for Murilla referred to prickly pear, which is a matter that I know very little about, but a Yery old friend of mine once told me that life was too short for a m<tn to take up land with either prickly pear or nutgrass on it. The hen. member for Muriiia endeavoured to show that selectors were not tr·eatod with that amount of leni­ency that they should receiYe from the Go­vernment. I remember the time when a numlwr of settlerv came here from Victoria and they thought that tihe Queenslanders knew nothing. They v:ere going· to show them how to handle the prickly-pear land, and it is verv evident that thev have taken upon themsdves a little mor'e tihan they thought they had taken, and that there are diffi<ulties in the way that they had not the slightc· t idea of. I have no doubt whatever t<hat.' if the Government find that these people an• in <my way embarrassed, they will assist them out of their difficulties. (Hear, hear ~) While on that, let me say t'lat I am not one of those individnals who are too mueh in favour of spoon-feeding. 'When some hon. memberB have been rer'erring to the farmer. I have wondered on several occasions 1>1hat kind of farmer we ·have to-duy, for it seems to bo assistance, as~istance to the farmer all the time. The farmers I am •acquainted with are not crying out and coming cap in hand to the Government and asking for assistance. I am really inclined to think that some hon. members are oducat-

ing our people to depend more upon the assistance they may get from the Go~ern­ment than on their own personal excrtiOil;S· (Hear, hear !) There ha~ been . a cer.t:un amount said about the fallmg off 111 agriCul­ture. The only reason I ean give for that is this: That the pastoral industry for the la'•t few years has been profitable, an~ wher­ever ·a man could get a small selectiOn and go in for sheep, it was but natural tha~ he would go in for sheep, instead of for agr1Cul­tural farming·, as they are more cihe.aply worked ; there is not so much labour reqmred, and the profits generally are greater than they are in farming.

Mr. SmYERS: And there IS ne-t so much rick.

Mr. TROrT : And there is not .'Jl much risk. Therefore, it. is but natural !

1l1at these

men who arc lookmg for land wJ.l, w_here they can afford it, go in fer .small selcctwns. T have no intention of delaying the House, ;s I have said <til I have to say. (Hear, hear!) .

Mr. RCNTER (Jiaranoa): In addr'?ssmg mvself to the Financial Sta temont, I ';'I~~ to refer, first of all, to some of the cntrmsm made this aftprnoon by the hon. member for Murrumba with regard to this pal'ty. The hen. member 'aid that tho leader of the Opposition had stated that the right way· to incn_~ase th_e rov:uup was to develop ,our re­sourc~''• bmld r,alwaye, and so on. rnat was perfectl.r true .. and he stat:d that t!'at was

~~d~pfe0J~cyTh~11l!~d;;Ic ol~W o;~~;itf~':. ~i~ not clann anv crecht for onr~mahty m co •. nec­tion with t11at statement-he r<ad from the platform of the Labour party.

:Mr. STEVENS: He rc::d from hi" address at the convention.

]\Ir. HUNTER : If I may correct the hon. gentleman he rend from his address and part of tile Labour nlatform. Tho difference between that platf~rm and the poli~y of ~he party oppocite is this: that tho pnhcy whw~ the hon. member for l\1urrumba. spoke or is a policy that is talked about; but v~ho on the opposite side has shown ns how It can be carried out? \Y ho is going to tel.! m that the revenue of the country has been mcreased bv any development that has taken place tfirough the npL"rat-io-n of the policy of thu Govemmen:? The policy rC'ad by the leader of the Opposition is a policy. that tells how things ma.y be rlone-:-how tlnng..;_ arc h:no1.yn to have becu d l11(' 111 df1m('<:r~·he e,r·untnes where tbeY haY<' been iried. 'l'he hon. n1G1llbor fo~· 1Iurnunba. also rpfcrrz_d to the deficits in -variouR Stat~s in the Conunou­v-0alth, and. _,_aid 1t .... vas ruther fl. r,_ :q.arl\::t l'lc thing that th0 only Goyernnu:nt,, whwh hrd deficits in the Commo;m·ea!+h happened 'l.> be Labour G.avernt.:..ccni·,. Th._' hon. lli''rnb.::r vvas not quite fair in making a statPm~nt of that sort. It is we] known that, wh1lo Queens­land has l1ad ~~ sr1cres:ion of ~~oDrl sefh.,\ns for nine y.-'(Hs. ~n \Yl'-;tE_rn _._i\.u~·~rnlia, ,"~-·bf e there i:;:; a Lab.Or!.r GoYC'l'Dinent, thoy ha:vP had a drought. It is also "-ell known thiJ.t last year ther~ was u drought in Kew South \Vales. However, I think it i,: a mcru (;nibble for any party to talk abn;;t deficic, with regard to a·rlministr::tion. \\ ho will f.:t:V tL.tt the Queen~­land GoYcmment would not hn.vo had a deficit if they happene;l to str:ike a I ,c] :Vf!ar? How­eYer, there is such a thmg as financmg, and we have had one of tho brightest illustrations of that in connection with the Commonwealth Go­vernnlent. If vve make compari~ons, l('t u~ be fair. A fair comparison on those lines might.

Mr. H11der.}

1306 Supply. (A8SEMBL Y.] Supply.

well La rna-1o in \..vnncction y··ith the adnunrs­tration o> the Feckral Labour GovNnment. \Yhon the Liberal Government, after a term of six or sev: .1 ret.rs, left cffi<..e, thev ldt a deficit of £:JOO,OOO, bnt after three years of Lc.bour Gon;·,·ment there v·as a \Yonderful 'urplns of £2,500,000.

;\!r. >::l'fEVi.l\S: Wa.s not that g,,t out of taxaHon '!

Tl1s SLCR,_,j_~AHY r 0R ll.AILW~\YS: Thev could not help ti:rLl>·dve~. ·

Mr. Jll'NTEH: The l :1rty who preceded then Jv,d jtkl· r-s much jc::Jwer to help them­solves.

The SECR' rAnY FOil RAILWAYS: No; the Braddon (lanse l.Yas in ope_,_·ation.

:\Ir. HUNTER: Tho money that \ms got though the repeal of the Braddon blot \ as eaten up by the extra expenso they wore put to in connc._tion with the administration of affairs. Som<; people said that, when the land tax wa•< put on, they would not know what to do ·F·ith thoir 1-~1ollcy; it is no-...v left for the Li.b,c,rals to find ' u '' fo,. it. How­eyer, I am not h'!'O to dd<'ncl any Federal Gov<, '''nuat; I am hr>_..- to state a fact. During the Y:hole of Hw ti::.<' the Fecl<Tal Liberal Goyormr · nt were in oflice th( y ha<l deficit·") and ,:-dH•n a chance of Go"~ rnn1cnt took place tlwro \Yerc :;urpJu,,·.~. One Ad­mini;b:·fon \YPS a fina.,<:ial ,-.ucc·',:,, · nd the other r. fna:lCial failure.

J\Tr. Fo.'SYT~f: 'ralk cDn1nlon sen;; e. Mr. HUNTER: Th, han. mullbcr, be·

cau~,, .~·or:_enJir(!' i ~ f:1id th 1t he dor.:: not like, calls iL l, Hlc·~lY~·. lit· ;)in1-; :y, i.hiB afternoon, f ··hood the btat · w•nr, made ou the opuo .ito ·.ide r0garding q"' mplns that the Go\"c~11n1cnt hap1· •n !o l1·;\·,.

niJ:r. F.li\'Y1H: I did not Ll· Ltion the Fe-deral SlH1·/ ,ls -a;., all.

Mr. H UI\iTEH: I m talking about the Queenshnd surplu, 'What the hon. member ;"'aid this u~t~. -.oon is Dimpl.··t an echo of the

Yanons hums of cong,:~tulation [8 p.m.] from tho other ,,;do d ·~he Hous~

"c ;q, rrc:ard to the ' ·rplus. I am not ba,~kt, a :·d in oitering rny conp-ratulations to th" t·,-rty in ofilo<>, ai1d to Que: '.~land, on the1·u being a 'nrplus; but I y,'ant io know how ,..,-e eould have anvthi:n:t ol~2 but a f.llf­plus 'ri! h the tet'lning i (f\~1~rity we have h-ad in the Shte. All these yPars, evor.v industry has had a nlL~ ,uro .. )£ ;::r:·.ct':'S ':·'hich ,' n~ never prcvi01uly known in Queensland.

Mr. FORSYT;r: iVhat about New South Wales?

Mr. HUN'l'ER: I told th.· hon. g('n:l e1an that thrre \\~as a ~"'-'' iotn drough;; in Now South Wale .

Mr. FoRr+YTil: TlHv had a n:;·,gnificent year last year. Look at their rcYemw !

Mr. HUNTER: I !ldmit that they had a fine whea.t han;est there last year, but all the same thoU' floc <s and herds v.-ere decimated by drougLr. But look at the teeming pros­perity in Queensland !

Mr. G. P. BAmms : \Vhat about the '"hea" crop?

Mr. HUNTER: If the hon. gentlenL' 'l looks 11l.t the fttatenwnt he will find this rcfr,rence to the he~t harvcr,t in Ouc,,nland-

" Fcr:~tunatcly, tl:o ,\Th-'ilt dis-t-ricts "\Vere f::vuurcd "ith very rQtisfactory cror·'. the 'W?rar,'O bring 15 .. 81 busheJsc per acre, ben::;:- ~h., r;,;( ')lld hrghest in the Colnmon-1-Voalth f::n· tlw yc::•.r, and an average only o 1cc pi'OY.:Jusly b·:.-a··~.:n in Qu:'~nslar;;}."

Mr. G. P. BATINES: \VhaL about maize? [Mr. H·untcr.

1\l:r. HUNTER: Ttcre is time c;,ough to moot evil when it comes. I ha-n no time to go into thso trivial mattnrs now. I have o.rJy an hour allovn:d n1e, r::td I v.~ant to r~Jvcr tn,'l'O ground than that. \Vill anyone ,; ny the".~ \. e have had a pro'"pcroth' tDl'ln of y\ __ \--~S; in short, that all our indu ,fric , gennally speaking, frm,l one end of thn State to the other have had a period of suux".,ces '? I--io'v coulci it. b~ other'< , .. i

'l'h ~ rrR!... '- '~·'CBTR: \Vb 1f· a 1: Jut l tn ~'~gar crop lust :, ear?

Mr. IIUc'ITER: \Yhat about the sugar wp tho year before'? You cannot have an un­broken period of succc"es. During the day thDr<· are clouds and •:unshine, but on the whole it has b( ~n a fair daY, ancl thctt is the line on which I am going. How can we help havin<; a mrplus with such pr-"sperity? It re1ninds n1e of thJ s~·orv of t:lC 1n ,,n who toe k a fl'i< ad to S"O tlw · Ki ~.garrt Fells, and a~ ho pointed to tho ,v.u-~_· 1 U',hing do\vn, he· 8aid "Is i~ not woud~,rful to b H_,_ 1 ""at~r ru·Jhing do\vn liko lh ,t '? ., \Vh( th, fr:end rc,,Jied " I think it ,,uJd be· more wonderful if ii did not L 11 over." Thrtt is just how it strikes uu~ in conL,-f;ion \vith th·' ~urplus. It would be more v;onckrhll if we did not haYe a surplus und~r f.nch condition·. I am prepared to coll~L~, ."llat J th l Grrycrnlncni on d1o Inea­r-nre of :·nc<\·ss, and th Tn. >tsur ron the ~~:ood fortun:> that has LlLn to him in being 'I'rea­snrr,r n-l; "nell a time D!.!d u~1dcr such favour­abL· circutnst Jl1Ct:">: h~It I cannot c:Jngratu­laiB or con1r1lirn::nt hin1 c,n his C' ,~inJ ttc.J of rcv0nuc and oxp(, ;c~it.nrf', be,- :-d .. U0 }f '' P turn to his J":nd ·ct \"C f'tud t}u·~t h~ hao;; lwJ Pll

excess of '-rt~';t 1nc oyer thJ ( tint:'L' of £109,911, ar:.tl an exc> ~"J c-f c.·::] '1-diuue o,·er t.he cstir1E1:u of ii109,4G~. 'I1ho Tru~ .. m:r :r sa3·s li r~~ i~ nc,t .... ··on{1 rl'ful to bQO. LTI,~ r·-· \f I vot to th0 snrpluR \YlY·n I r .ti1n~)t.--d it :"~.t £5 1669, and it turn0' ont at £6,116."

fiir. FoLEY: IIo could b:-, -e n1ad;-· it con1e out to D, penny.

~Ir. TIL.,.:~TEit: It is oui:,J tru0, as the hen. memb T '·,""~:s. th~ct t~1,·, Tret -mrer cc .. tld l-:ave 1rtudo it co· L10 out to pt. ·1ny if ho hac! wished. Th.·r. j n :hin~· ycrv r',·vr.:: n}""lut. 1t at ull. The o~ll""': ~,,ir:.n7e thi}ur abot( it iJ that. the 1\·.oasnrc'e f'Xl ··t !-h(~-'Jiutl ! t-) a:::r·:::_;t it in th,_t~ fonn. \\[(' 1 tl~~,t he 11 J r,_ad(' a tranHf, ·· with hl wood' n building•. of £24.4-D [:r)m lo. 1l. ?COU'1t· to t:D rCV'""'.llH~ :w( ~~un~.-; . n(J ~ so f< .. \l' as inun.igrn'..ion is con­(C'rnocl, of £1!.2'~·6 fron1 \rus; a·-Jouni to rev0nu::• ac..::ouut. \Vc~ ... r;~ told Hr c it is a right thL ~: to do, bnt if ~h hon. g-_cnH;,1n:~n in doing ihi' kind of thine;, h{" IJ Simply wiph~g ont tl'~ P:Jrplus. --~-Ct{)rz~i,,l~. to lho AudiP Ad .\mon h1c1': _';ct of L'l~>, that is not proner. I know we will b: told, as v.o hcYc. air. c.:h b nn tc'd in t 11is Hom •, that it is uerdy 'a um · •.r of to king it ou• of one drawer and puttin~· it in ~nothf'~·; hnt that is not in kc :pin::; Y. i+h the spirit of the Act .. r_n;:;J i;;.; ,,:~·t: cl::U'·-' 2 of thP \ >~ flays on this L_ .. t+d-

" If i.hore fH.<·''[l"!' bv 'r:rh'"' Tr'.'.'.SUrf'r's

Annuc: ," S+-.1.t '"'~Gnt ' 0£ tho r~,- ip~ .; and expm1diture of tht re\'DllUJ ac.Jount tn be a surplus of receirr1-s, th0 T~:-~a '.,l!rnr shall, beforo :h thir!v-f\r'."c chv of Docombcr r.ext cns-:.ling, ca11sn, the ,~nl,Jt:.LC of ·_·nth sur:-,lu , t, J l-- ~ p 1jcl out of tho { ',Jnbolid;;;t(·'d rov(,IFL' ftL1d Lo '~lG Prc"1d·lr ~ of J he Legisl .tiYc Conn. il. 'he Rp~·•.kcr of the I~ ~·cdsla·: ;_yc ..:-\ss~n1bl'.~, and i ~.le Ocloinal Trf·.1surer for tho ~t.imo being, her.jn­aft, r cc P d 'Th': Trv.<lees,' and the 3lllOUn~ of tC'h surplus shell b~c th m be

Supply. E 11 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1307

forthwith placed to t.he credit of an account or accounts in tho n,une of the trustees, to be called the ' Public Debt Reduction Fund,' with some one or more banking companies previously approved by the Governor in Council."

Then clau'e 6 Rcoys-" The moneys standing to the credit

of the public debt reduction fund shall be applied by the tru; teec-first, in the payment and discharge of any 'l'reasury bills which n •. ay have bcon 'i>sued and sold in aid of the revenue of the colony; secondly, in the redemption .and cmcella­tion of any unsold Treasury bills which may have b<JEn authorised to be• issued in aid of tho revenue of the colony; and, thirdly, in the purchase and redemption of any QueonslanJ Government deben­tures or in·cribcd stock is>nccl under the authority of any J~oan Act at the current market price at the time of such purchase, .mel in the payment of any commission, coL'.s, and expenses incurred in effecting any such purchase, and not otherwise."

That merely states v, hat tho duty of Trea­surer is. If he holds that his action is per­fectly justifiable, then I Fay, Why does he not wipe out the whole surplus? Why does he allow £6,000 odd to app.'a" at c,IJ Y \\'hy not wipe that out too? The 'freasurer deals with his accounts in such a way that he is able ~o write down h;, surplus by £•13,536 in those two accounts which I haYc mentioned. The Treasurer should have shown how uuch the surplus re;,Jly was so that tho public would know if it \~ J.S a rig·ht thing to tax the peopk more than is necessary. That is what the Govornrncnt arc doing-collecting more money than is actually needed for the admin­istration of affairs.

Mr. STEYE!\'8: ·what about the Fisk r 'GoYernwennt?

Mr. HUNTER: Mr. Fisher can defend himself. If Mr. Fisher ·, u·c sitting where the Troasu .. er is sittin<:' now and he did what the Tr<·asurer has clone, I v. oulcl criticise his action jusi· the same as I am doing now, as hon. IT20ldbc·la le-o·: I un not ai·•we oritici­ing anybody.

Mr. Srr·;_y;._~NS: You cond~1nn f_.urplu~hl in one case and app ·eve of th.-m in another.

Mr. H'GNTER: No. \Vha; I condemn is the way the 'l'rcc.surer has of discipating surpluses. I j1~ t r0fcr to Fodt~ral politir s merely for the .1.ke of compari~on, and that is as far as I care to go at prcf<cnt. The P.~uditoJ;-C __,\1( :.:al dC'l not approYc of this sj-stduL The Auditor-Gene1·al in his last statem' nt to this Hom'' said it was nwessary to have an altcra·don in the Audit Act. And I say that her0 is one in,tance in which an alteration of the Audit Act i• required, and I hope that the Treasurer will not continue to jug,:;le with th,,: finances in the ,,·ay that he is doing, an<! has been doing for son1e years pr.~t.

The TREASURER: I will continuo to arrange to g.'; a surplus.

:Mr. HUNTER: I do nrt blame him for trying to do that. It woo,tld be a wonder­a grc.,t ,,;·onder indeed-if he did not have a surplus. \Y e find in connection with the Est.imates, that one-half of the revenue is expected to be provided by the Railway Departmcnt-£3.318, 752. I have for some time pa~t lLen of the opinion that our rail­ways aro. r0'urninp; too much revenue to the State. That a policy of development would

·chang·o ·,;lis, I fed conYincod, and it would

Do the l'lght 1ne0nB to develop our l'esourood. I am rather interested in this paragraph in the Treasurer's Budget Statem··nt-

" Honom able members will notice that in most of the e·1rvices the reoeiiJts "'ere greater than tho oJtimat0•!. In the y,·ar 1911-12 the railway rDceipts fell slightly short of the estimate; for the yeat 1912-13, howe• cr, tho estimate was e \_C':ndcd by a vory satisfactory an1ount -namely, £98, 752-and ''ill, I am sure, impress the Committee perhaps nwre than ever of the immense vaiuo of the raihv;;.v~ to our Slate, not only fron'l the standpoint of development in the direction of ar,isting thoi•e who have sc:.tled upon the land, and in giving communication thereto, hut also from the sLmdpoint of rendering financial assistance to the Stat,;>, and thus enabling us to still further develop Q112ensland."

Now, there are two things I want to mention in reg.ar..:l to this, and the fir 9.t is that here we hayo the brighkst example of nationalisa­tion-our big railwa.y systf':il; and hr,re we haYe the Treasuret-in spi!e of the fact th~t he condemns the polic:r of nationalisa­tion-condPmns tho party on this side of the House beoausc tlHw are in fayour of it-holding it up ,as o'ne of tho bulwarks of the Treasurv, one of the p:rcat hopes of tho State. And while I agree with him in this re· poet, I ex)xct him to be hone9t enoun·h to admit ths't he is in the wrong when loe saos that tho State cannot deal with large concc\'ns.

Mr. STEVEl\S: ·would von like the State •,o h~ndL~ vcur business On the nationalisa~ tion pri11ciPk?

::\1r. II'GKTER: T:w hon. :centleman is very lllr":ious to 0~ct scn1e.adn1ission out of n1e to-night. Well, ·all I can say i, that if !he Govc"nnwnt want my businc· ', they can have it.

l\h·. FORSYTH: I£ they give you a big pri·Je; your oyvn price.

Mr. HUNTER: No; thc:r can have rt for '\d1a:: I pav the l·.on. genn_•nu:n y~,-hen I L'E an};i,ing 'from him-cost prcoo. 'l'lky can nationalise any article they please, and I \\ill not c har;:e ·tree m se1y commi--·non. I will give him 2~ per cent. if he make< the deal himself.

Mr. FOI · Y"'Il: The,' wonlfl not mc.:l~E'' it r < \\ell a· you do. ·

Mr. HF~\TER: I do not manage it in the in, :·rest~, of my customers .. I main(l'e it in my o..cm intereJs, and that rs the chf· ference brt \~·eon Stato and private €nterw prise. If I mana?·· my businoss I manage it for my· olf and not for n_y customers. I try to l)loar~ them, but the bus.inc:". is !or me. That is just where natwnahsatwn C·H110S in. If 1)fiv:-,te cntcrnrise were manw po·ino· o~u raih~:tiS theY v~o~ld 1nanat:;'O them cj';ti1~lv in tlw 'ic"""·:'sts of private enter­prise; 'but since they are rationalised, they are 1 ctn in t} o interests of all these people in QtK•,•nsland, and that is yhy I bpliove in n:~tlonn.lir t' ~otl. I do 11ot kno\'{ why the Treaf'll'0J' io in favour of it, but lw holds it up ,1~S ! V( rY it::_portant ll1htt~r. It. i~ a ro1n0rkr~blo tlung that a~thou.gh t~1~. Ra.1lw~y D~r:n.rt:nrr_..~.., ha::. cxc,-'?fH"d It·-; Oi't.lH1r,re In

•'<q;o~·diiure by £111,954, the Tr~acuror has not a word of explanation about it. There IS no explanation of how t;1at m;nay has been snf'nt. 'lho Tr;~a.-;urcr ooJ:ne·) dowtl here .·~11iling ~,ncl pk ,, ., d with all that has hcon done, and ]L~ doc-t not s.:. y a word a~' to

JJfr. Httnttr.1

1308 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

where that money h!1s gone. It has gone, and that is all about it. It has reduced his surplus by that amount, and yet he does not complain about it. There is no 11polog:y to this· House or to the general ta·<r>tye·, .. He comes down with a 'Latement o£ that sort and expects the House to tell him that it is good lmance, and that he is a careful Treasurr•r. I undertake to say that if that had happened in his own business, he would have come down to his accountant and wanted to know where it had gone, why it had throv. n his brenk account out by £111,954, and put him in financial diffi­culty. But the difference between the hon. gentleman in the position he is and in tbe posi­tion I have stated is that he has here a good milk cow at his back. The gt•neral taxpayer is called upon ;o foot tho bill everv time, and there is no explanation made to 'thi> House. Has it gonp in wages, or has it gone in ad­Yertising, or in buildings, or in what shape or form has it gone? I think we are en­titled to some explanation in regard to this matter. If the Treasurer ha-d had a deficit, what "onld be his position? I suppose he would come· down to this HoUS!' and tell us that he had to raise tlw railway fr.eights and fares. In fact, there is some suggestion to that effect in his Statement; a remark which I look on as rather serious, because to me the raising of freights is a very serious matter, and I think one in connec­tion with which this House should keep a careful eye on the Treasurer. As far as railwa.ys are concerned, th!'l Government seem to be able to do just as they please in the matter of finance. They may spend more than they estimated, and they may get more from revenue than they expected, and I suppose because this is a big revenue­making 9oncern th" Treasurer is so glad to get Jus hands on the money, whatever they give him, that they may spend what they phease. In connection with railways, I have a word to say, rand it is this: I think we should have a reduction of rail­way freights. Of course, I shall be told that that will mean a loss to the Treasury, but I think that a fairer an-d a better way could be found of raising revenue for the State than by raising it from the people who use our railways. We are always talking about developing our lands bv mf)ans of rail­ways, and when we Bend out people 1,here, \Vhat happr·ns? \Ve charge them freight t~at makes it almost impossible for them to hw. If a man wants to build his home o~ er~ct his f:nce,, the Government charges hnn hvc or six tunes as much on his \Vire and his iron as they do in New South Wales. That has something to do w:th the cau,es of ],~ck of drwelopment in the in­teri,•r, but not all.

:iYlr. GUNN: There are plenty of places in Kcw South Waks where they have no raih;·ays.

Mr. HUN'l'ER : If the hon. gentleman will .on!~ think for a moment, he will re­cognwe tnat there arc places in Queensland \Vh(c:·e they have none either.

. Mr. GuNN: They have far more mileage m Queensland than in New South Wales.

:\Jr. HUNTER: That is so. B'ut we have a lot of railways going through private estates. I think I calculated once in going through my electorate from east to· west that there were in 89 miles about 300,000 acres of freehold land coming right up

fMf'. Hunter.

to the re,ilway fence. And that is sorr:e­times why our railways do not pay-because these lands are simply cattle and sheep runs and are not giving the traffic to the railways that they should. It also means that the Govm:nment must build railways into the country in order to settle people on the land, or else send the people out into country where there is no railway, and if that is done they will not succeed on the land. An­other thing in connection with our railw~ys is that we have written nothing off the original cost. If a bridge has to be taken down or repaired, or a cutting altered, that is added to the original cost of the line. A bridr:;e which W"-S erepted forty years ago out of loan mon<>y may have to be redecked, and tho mont'Y for redecking i_t is taken out of loan account, and the amom:t is added to the cost of the railway, and then the Com­miRsioner is expected to make that railway pay, and to do that he has to charge those who use the railway excesflive freights. If a siding is altered or a navvy's cottage along a raihYay is shifted, not only is the line · charged with tho original cost of making that siding or building that cottage, but it is also charged with the cost of alteration or re­moval, nocessit?.ting of course higher freights being imposed so as to make the railway pay interest on the cost of construction.

Mr. G. P. BARNES: Don't you think the railways are worth far more to-day than when the~· were first constructed?

Mr. HUNTER: They ought to be, and it is a very good thing that they are; but that has nothing to do with my argument, which is that the Government should do as busi­ness men do, and write something off the railways every year for depreciation. But, instead of doing that, they are loading up the railways and capitalising them to such an extent in the way I have mentioned, that it is almost impossible, with reasonable fares and freights, for the Commissioner to make them pay. Is that the way to build r~ilways for the development of Queensland? I con­tend that it is utterly impossible for the Com­missioner to make railways pay, and at the same time have them used for the purpose of opening up the country. I notice that the land revenue has fallen short of the estimate by £7,002. I suppose the Treasurer, or the department, over-estimated the revenue ,from that source; but, however it happened, it is a very serious thing for the Treasurer. If it had not been for incre<tses in other direc· tions, the chance•J are that he would have closed the year with a deficit. I have some­thing to say with regard to the want of method in the settlement of our lands. The Minister for Lands has no means by which he can settle our lands in a proper and methodical manner, because resumptions are made in different pa~ts of "' district. The departmr·nt take a fourth, p08" ibly the worst fom:th, of a run in one corner of a district, cut it up into blocks of a certain si?.e, and throw it open for settloment, and then do the same thing in another corner of the same district. Then the people who take up land in those two places so distant from one an­other cry out for a railway to cn.<>h settle­ment. If the Government re,,umed one big block of good land in one part, cut up the land into suihble arc-:•s, and built a railway there, the land would bo taken up, and the railway would probably pay at once. Under the pre80nt unsvstematic method of settling our la·1ds. r-wn who know not-hing about Que,,nsland may go out and loC'k at land.

Supply. [ ll SEPTEMBER. J Supply. 1309

It may be pear land. The Government are .anxious to get ~·id of thuir pear land, and thos.e mon take It up, spend all their money ~n I~, waste the best part of their years in fightmg the pear problem, and then in the end haye to t.hrow up the Janel. .While they are domg tlus, we have land which is not infested with pear that might be resumed and thrown open for settlement-land on which those men might mako decent homed fm: themselves-but, instead of that land bemg made available, it is held until it be­comes bfested with prickly pear. \Ve Ymnt the pcpartme?t of L:tnds to pay better salarre~ to then Crown land rangers. Then they. \'·111 be able to keep their b<'·t men, and J. ~sstbly get more good men who can pro­perly advise tlv1 department ~s to s0ttlement. I oan give instanc~s in n1y o1vn district lV"h0re attempt•• were made at some >,ptem in land settlement. One was at \Va!lumbilla, where a small area of land close to a raih1 ay was resumed and settled. That settlement has suceeed<'d. The other was down at Rocky Bank, where they cut up another area of land 40 miles from a railway. Thr·y cent a lot of. poor se~ectors out there, and to-day there IS not a smgle man on tho whole block Those instances illu·.trate the difference be: tween the result of a sensible method of settlement and tho svstem of settlc•nont "e are now following. \Vhen so much is said about there being so little land under cuiti­va.tion, I think we should remember thE·e thmgs. I remember. that when tho Pr<>miP7 was putting through his consolidated Land !3ill in 1910, I tried to get an amendment mserted giving priority to the man v·ho w_ould ;u;dertake to caltivate 10 per cent. of h1s ho.dmg, hut the amendment v. as not accepted. Until \\'8 ·give some ,ort of en­cou~agem:mt to. men to take up la,,d and cultivate It, until we see that our bc .. t la .. ndJ are made available, provide settlers with a wat~r supply and r:1.i!way communication. the agrwultural in.dustry will not succeed in Queensland as It ought to suco••·lcl. It is all very well for u~ 1 .to P,• ss through the Downs and soe the. &tnr.~_rng ~anns there, ~111d draw our. concluswns as to the profitablenoe". of agnculture. ~ut we m~st remember that they too had then· struggw. though thev h:we good la':'d anc! a good climate. I notice that we ;-_ec•twd £300,000 Jrom rents for pastoral holnmgs Jv,t year. Next year, I understand a number of those holdings will be due fo~ a roaSP!lssmont. of rent, and I think it is worth the. wlnle . of the Government, the Treasurer I? part'rn1 ;1.r, to consider ·whether we are get\ nw a full return f10m our lands

fvhen you come to consider th~ [8.30 p.m.] Immense amount of wealth that

those occupying our la,nds get from thr;m,, the Treawrer should be prepared to .a~mit that the St :~te does not receive suffiment return in the shape of rent. The T~·easueer n3·s that the value of the wool chp of the fst,.te was £5,556,000, th0 \ nlue of the output of the meatworks £3 700 037 the yalue of the l;orsr; £277.525: the 'am~unt recmved fmm offal £711,209-or a total of £10.244.771. Then thoro is the value of the bed and mutton that went into consumption m the State and the value of rhe stock sold and Sl"It r.r·~·oss Jhe l.Jrder to the other ~t:<ieF.. Tabu~ these things also into con­Sta0ratwn, p!·obably the total value of the output of the pastoral industry is between £15,000,000 and £20,000,010 per annum, and t~e only return the State gets is a paltry £300,000 from rents. Of course those en­

-gaged in the industry pay income tax; but, if

they paid the whole amount received by way of income tax, they would not be pay­ing enough. They also pay something in railway freights. nut just think of what is coming out of the industry. \Ve are told by the Premier that the State is like some gre.tt concern of which we are supposed to be the directors to look aft,lr the business, study the balance-sheet annually, and see that the right thing is done. Now, is the right thing being clone in this connection? In connection with "Production," tho Trea­surer says-

" It is pleasing to report th.1 t in con­r~nction ~sit.h o;u factories it i.:: estin1:1ted that at th.c end of the year 1912 the llUlnbor in operation V\ as 1,790 c'.S COm­pared '' ith 1,657 for the year 1911; that the f'~tiiflated number of hand.· employed dllring 1912 was 40,957, com~11red with 37,15o for 1911; that the saJ.cries and wc.ges Joaid \W' e £3,771,192 for t'w yccer 1912, compared with ::..3,113,835 for the ye .r 1911; that the· v::tlve o£ ra · 1.mterial used in 1912 was cotimat. d d £11,068,454, '''-:npared with £8,703,335 in 1911; that the ,~a.lue of the oupu.t for the yc·ar 1912 was e.-i.imaLd at £18,?85,606, compared with £15,675,C..J2 for 1~11; and that the '· oJue of maohiu'ry and pLnt in use during 1912 wn estimated at E:iA43,153, comp: .. c.dl with a value of :04,9''7,259 for 1911. Thc·e figur•·; fhcw that [J eduction in Quernsland is increasin~ in a~ very sub­S1·Uli:itl 1nan:1er."

Now I t me take out some of those fig-ures. In the year 1911 the TrP: .. nrer rays that the valuo c£ the output was £15,675,6C2. 'l'he ·~alarirs s _ _,_d \v·a;_~es paid arn.oartcd to £3,113,s-;;s; ;>,.nd r-r~v, vlat~..rial etnt .:=8:708,335; or a toto! of £11,902,170. De lucting the ~;11o~nt prid in salal'ics mJ.d v a::t-s and for r&''-' rn;~t 'l'ial fron1 tLe total output leaves a gruss pi>)fit of ":;3,772,:::2. ..:\ b~tsinc. : of that sDrt ou~~ ht to { un o\er its c )pital throe times g yc~ r, so tnkin7.' one-thirc: of the amount c:;titnated for 'vages z:1cl ra-·· n1at<wial, it gives the c,;pital inrscr ·] as £3,967, '\90, ph~ the plant, whirb. is estimatPd ;;': £4,D47,2":J, making a total capital of JJ8.9li.6;9. 'l'he profit mc.Je in that year, the!'( fJre, was £3,74~,574, or 42~ per cent. on the capital investt' i. vVhen we hear peep! J talking al··out the increased cost of living, · e rarely loo]r at the incrca· cd profits th" t are being nu:id::?- by rn~tnufact'..-1rers. T tki~.g the figures for 1912 on the same b , sic;, I f\nd that they made a profit of almo t 37!, ncr C·ent.-that is, 5 pd' cent. le5c; thu1 in 1'·11. Tl e chances are that the reduction was bro ;ght about by the reneral strikP. There: were a couple of months during which the manufacturers had to clos ·. their factori. ;, and th<.ir co.;·ii"l was lying idle during tbt period, and the profit, instevd of being made in tv 0\vo month;, "·as ma,le in ton mo.~.ths. vVhf'n we t··>m<> to con­sider tlm.t vve have \·'<'a·; .-:s boards ::xing the "\T ,~ges for c1nployce:<J ,.,~,-ho canuot get more than a certain amount for their labour, surely it is hi>;h time for us to COL'i<lcr whether the ti·ne has not come when tho·e o;l. ,,]d be some boal~,I to fix the nriet-; th .. ~~ ,,l1all be char· cd for the gc·.oc'ls thtct r rc m nmfr,~turerl under tho~e condi! ions, and ~n tb.'t t1~H con­SllD1Pr sh;J] not have to pa.y jL:.Pt 1"- I-qteYer th.f::' :vnnu£,-.rturer cha-o~,:~ j to g-,k. V\~h--n a ,,-a rs: board says t1\t;t n. c0ri -).iu :::w.'lunt pPr hmc ~hall be pai·J to workers. ''>rely it is lY)t. rirht that m"tnufad:1rcrs should f)e able f:o "\V e have to pay 7-ft per ce1'lt. more. fo,,· produdion of our 'goods than ,~-e paid

1111·. H1.tnter.l

1310 [ASSEMBLY.]

forrn~_.:ly, o \Ye are going to churgc the con~ snmet 27 ~ p~r cent. mor'." There is nothing to S'..Op that ox:; u~ COITlpc3·.lion. But \YO do not get nny :::o1np.~tition in n1-anufat turing. lr·n~c ,:1iatol::- a wa::-=-·: board gi-res r.n a\vc .. rd, tho Ma71uficcturers' A, oociation meets and fixe, tho pc,icr· of r 1l tho guulJ f1ey manu­facture, and the r, •·ul[, i, th ,t they go to tlK mar1<et ,·:ith a IL•cJ cdling pric", and ~D!llccin_·-; !·~;._l.:; _.are hr~,av~y 1-;cnalti~ s ~£ th_e ~<rrr.c:me,'::; 1s b1v·.cn. lhr-"' sort of thing IS happe:ninz all a1ong the line. You have a n1crchnn1 _, a- 0cin+~on "\vhi, h r wets every 1\ilon•' ~Y mocing, tend they list certain goods, and tho ))ric , of tho. c goods an•. fixc<l for all the \dl\·l_:;J,ln ... >~rch~n::> in tbi cit--;·. 'rhat is t.L.., u· -k !1 it ... •, and if it is _;_o\uH1 out +hat. any oi Hl L ±Ye sold r:nder thn prier'~ a~ H'' l n ,' O~~, 1? wir dcpo> :t is forfc i · J, ur~d t!wy are br.nnc·l, ~-nd tho oth.-:>rs refuse to tra.'1'1 wi:h them.

_\i.r. TEl _IDDP,F.: Is that tlv cror d i-h,/c­closcd {IO\\·n tl>:; s: o~~~ c:nring the general st~'itr· '? ..

T~10 'J.lrr: ~ "LR1:R : The cro~<vd that closGd dm,- e1 tho shops du_rin,{ the general strike ·were c~:. the otht r :::rde.

l\L·. HUNTER : Tho talk about the .high co~t of living br,·ing due to the wages boards is all moonshine. The high cost of living cnd v, UJ<" boards is just a stalking-horse for merch;,ntq and manufacturers to bleed the constrning public, and wh.:n I hear the Premier S'ay it is the concern this House to loolc into our affairs and :, out the ,,-eak partJ and see if we c:rH:ot improve them, I say if he puts his fir; c ·rs on this 'veakne·_-J, he will find room for grc:tt im­provement. It is our bu---ine::;s to LBO that all the shat-&hold,)rs in this great corpoL·tion of Quoonsland ["et somr-ihing out of tlH ;)ncern. As it is now, a few of tho sl:a i'oholders profit at tJw <"'<pcnse of the n· ·1ainder. 'l'hat in how the increa'·"cl c~e': of living comee, about, and w!.ilc wages have gone up, the '•' -:>rking man to-clay is g<octing less to li;·e upon than he did before. If the Go­vernment are endeavouring to hold the scales of justice f;:irl: and wish to sec that the right uhing is don.:, it is tim0 they did some­thim; b see that our taxation is mora equally clistriL .ted. 'Ih ,, ho'1. mcm~•2r fDr Chilb,:;oe sugg•·.hd that""'' mig-ht do somcth;ng in the wny of an incr( cf:...d incoTnc tax or a l.tnd t~·"'{, orb :•t;,, perhaps. I .:m ,,ah·tiecl t!Pt both an im, '•H3 !.•.x and a to.ncl tax is the fairc"t way of · ~ ri dr:g ~· ~~ a proper rovon1P for tho She,·.•, and won!J l•·ccl to J:.<etter rt9uLs. ThD lal';,o ri-;;; pr cperties •Yould then be callc cl upon to pay illbir share of taxation, :•·hich they do not now. As it is, the power to-day is in the h;ncls of tho•u who control monoy and machin. ry, anrl the consequence is that the grr·'tt n.:.'J of tho poop!& are being ground down. I luld that that is not a f:ir thin':', Htd a Government thnt stl.ncb for that sort of thinO" st.mcl: · cond·3n·ned by eve• y ri_,Lt-thi,,kir g- man. It is not a state of affairs that anv pm-cJon who sit" on the Trca;_ury bench "should be proud of. Perwnally, 'ometimes I fBel inclinBd to cxcuso them. I think somotimDs that they <lo net give prop<w consi,!cration to the n1atterj olih<·r""'~7 ise they "\\ cnlld not go on per­rnittinr: t\ -~se things to continue without try· ing to <JJter thAm. Tho Treasurer hod some­fling to s~v about the Savings Bank in his F;nancia.I Statement, and I notice from tho trust and special funds th;,t he is asking £3,000 more this yoar for the bank than he did last ;;Dar. I suppoqo more banks are

[Mr. lluuter.

being opcr;cL1, boca~1r'.'J ,the increased bu[dnc:ss warrants 1t ; but 1£ t:w han. me•nbcr w!ll vmember wr.cn he passed his Bank Aot through this Ilouse-and .he pasz.ed it in a panic; he was af~·aid the Commonwe,alt_h would clip· his v:mgs, and he rushBa 1t through-I ·'·"·rgcsted an amen~ment to pro­vido for Inger amounts bemg taken on de;)osit.

The TREASURER : It is WOil{:erful how the great " I" comes into it.

I\Ir. HUNTER: Ahd it is one o£ uho " I's" I would lik·i tho hon. membc·r to put a dot <.;YEll' to remem~,or it. If this Savings Bank is ell that he sa.ys it ic, and I hope it is-1 know that £8,000,000 is a big sum for us L> got, ~on1otirncs paying 3 per cent., and ,~·n.tL,,tiHlCJ raying no per cent. at all-the great working class come ch~erfully and put their money into the Savmgs Bank and s }mctimes do not get any interest, or per­haps a very small interc,•,t.

The TREASUHER : You need not worry about it.

Mr. HUNTER: I am not worrying b€­cause I have no n1one3r in t~ho Savings Bank, and I ,am sure the Treasurer has no money there. I would adYise him to take money in larrrer dc•)osits. The same thing is happening no\v that occurred before. A father has got, e•.y, £1,(']0, and the Trc;i­surer will not take that £1,000, but he will take it in two amounts-one from hia wife ,and one from l1im"elf. That is what is happening. \Vhy do_es he p.ot oome out straight for the tradmg J:>usmess and say, "Yes, we will take any amount of money in our bank", but when you have large sums you muit put it at fixed deposits for a ce_r­tain time, and you must g1ve us a oerta1n no·'icc before vou can withdraw." That wo~tld rave the' 'I'rDasurer all the fears he has th~t some day !1l1<'y mas come down and wipo his b mk out altogether. If such a. systcn1 o£ larger dc}losits on tern1s were ;·.dopte.J, it ,.,oulcl _cave the Treasurer any trouble, and he would not h'•Yo to go to Lon­don so often for money. There is a lot of money tir·d up to-.d ;•Y in th.e trading baD;ks of Que>'nsland wh''"'l he m1ght very eastly g. t if he wanted it, and 1he would not have to pav £4 z, per cent. nor £4 2s. lld. pe1· c: nt. that he poid in Kovemhcr and January lu,,t. I strongly recomm<md him to seriously take notice of tlwse facL, becaur0 if he is going to remain as Treasurer. much longer it is up to him to kaTn somethmg about the bn incs"•, It is not sufficient for him to come down here as tho echo of his Under Secre­tmv. He should know something about the bu&incss he is codrolling, and he will see that it would be a good thing kr tho 'l'rea­c·m·n of Quco!dr,ncl if he could get money oa the"' j,,r,ns. The money wou'-1 \.e safBr th•Te thJn in the trading b:1nk , brn~:use th'':/ b -_:Ye as securit:v tlw v;·hole of Qu:,C}nsL<.nd, bhu whole of thD' taxpayer', end the whole of tho e wonderful raih ays that wo are so proud of. I noticB in ·s,heduL·s A, B, C, th:"c.t th9 Trl:lac:urer is asking .. £25.553 mol~e than last year, .and £16,576 of this amount is wanted for a sinking fund. I do not know how he proposes to deal ith the sinking fund, but if he is going to d<*ll with it as he does with Mw public dGbt reduction fund, then it will be a Finking fnnd indeed. It will Lc ·at the bottom of sor.1c mine some dav. I notice Hho th"t the Home Secretary is" asking for £771.059, or £.;8,246 more than last year, ·and being an

[ ll SEl':CEMBER.] Supply. 1311

inert•; •,c, a,, compnred with 1904, of over £300,000. That is a pretty big expansion. However, that is a matter that the Trea.­surer will look after. He is pretty careful when he }._as got tho n1ouey. Then in trust and special funds I find there is .an increase this year of £281,707. That is a Yery big amount, and the 'l'reasuier, with that charactc•·ist:.l mod.•c! v of his, ask~ for no lD.; than £273,419 for· hi> own department. That is £213,780 more than he ask€d for last yoor. And when we come to look at it, wiliat havo they done for the Agricultural Bank? They only propose to give the Agri­cultural Bank £11,292 more than they did last y._ar. \Vhen we Eee theso thing•, one begins to woLder how far '' e can take C•.>rio.Lly t: c ,c,,tc_,w;rt fr ·,u the other r-iel> that. t~1· \- \,uuL i'J .-ett-0 pcorlo en ti~~ land and assirt tho ag1·iculturist. Surely their whole aim i· to Cl'O'' tJ 1-·cople in the cities imt~ad of trying to s~ttle people in the country ! I am not cm,lpli.in­ing of tllat amount bein:; given for the worker<>' dwellings, but I do say we should hav<l a similar <1mount down for the rest of (~uen.d.·nd. Look at tho area we have! Right from the Gulf to the Southern border tho scl<Jctors want mon<Jy to help them to fenv3 tl-v~ir ho1din'r9 d clear and cult~v·>.te their l•,nd to build hDmc ". All the'' things require money, and the Govern­men! say the- t all that thio bank shall spend iF. £11,292 more than last year. We find that tho amount put down for the De­partment of Public Instruction is 5~523 958 this year, being an increase of £36 823. This is well-snent money. The bush schools want it, e.nd it is ncceseary for high schools, t9chni<Jal t:<lucation. bursaries, and training sehools, and I am pleased to we the incr·ease. I regret the small amount nut down for agriculture; tl,iB depa1 tm,mt is gotting only £4,000 more than it did before. The reason why this dcc.•artment },as failed is because it has b•oen starved from its inception. Althongh it that it is not an important depm·tment th<> vc·rs of the Government, that i~ no Nnson ,c,·hy incrl';",c,•s should not he made, to cerLtin services in t:;e depart­ment. Thn0 is no attempt made by this department in the way of scientific cultiva­tion; the "' :wle businBss eeems to be a matter of f.,•> as : ou pleclSC. Rdmcnco was made as to the hUC<'BSS of 'We•.tern Australia, as compared with Queensla-nd, in thG matter of cultivation. The great water sr1wme of Sir John Forrest, arnl the liberal advances made by the _'\.gricultural Bank in that State is responsible more than anything else fo; its success,. I notice that it is proposed to g" e .an mcrcao:e o£ £4,000 to the junior clerks and the cadet cl0rl: ,, This is to be di_vided, ov:er 3~0 offioer~ while 23 o!fi9ers, wrbh En.:1ri"S o; over :v600, have drvrded <11110"-['c·C them £1,750, and 175 officer.; with f alaries of ov:·r £300, arc to share in tho dis­trihutionc of £6,011. Summari:;ed, we find that tho GO\'Crnment propo~c to spend from rcv·enve £4-:8,252 morn than last y<'>:r, and fro'n trust and spor:al fuml", £281 707 more beir"' a tob I Ln the cdrole 3 oar of £·)99.959: Tll(y !TOl>-)~-) io ,--~·~LJ ir:na k-:n £4-23,C~-8 l\ s t; .. J:l L:·!Jst - On public buildir -, th. -Y

prcpc'e to F £127J~·6 nbrc than r::.t yr;:..r. It L)"J +) r:1r' ~hat sor:1J of t11e r, il-

"" ,,,,ill '·ave to ;:;o •.hart. \Ye find tL<:t tb1 interest <;!l the public d<'ht has incre~. ·,.-d in iPl1 yen.: •' ry £2~ 5,760.

The bell indicated that the hon. member's time hMl expired.

* Mr. BERTRAM (,liaree): With the hon. member who has preceded me, I thmk it is a matter for congratulation that we hal'e again had a surpluL I alco thi11k it is a matter for congratulation that the revenue of the Shte has increa~ed to the <·:xtent which it ha.;. The revenue from the rail­ways has increased to a very con ;irlerable extent, and it iJ a matter for Jonp;ratula­tion that this State enterpri'·2 is doing so much to help Qucemland to finance itself. Dealing w1.h the Financial State .1r-nt, I noti~e th,;, t the Treccsur" r was out in his c,tirHto of revenue T} the Dxtent of £10J,911, and to th·: extc of £109,462 in his cstilnate of ,- xr Jnditurc. I arn not going to advers0'y criLicise the 'l'reas·c;r, r for that, because I a;;:: one of tho)IJ who contend that it is r lmo .t im1 u X>lo to fore<.>: t with any degroo of acJur '' ,;· the revenue and expenditure, and I diiler ,,-it'r some of my collcac;u:·•, inasmuch as I do not think that a differenc,-:_1 o£ B109,000, in a revenue of over £6,000,000, is a very great amount. But there aro other f.unn with regard to which the Treamrer is out in c·-.timate that I think he ought not to h.,, e bH,n: For instance, v e kno1'' from the Staterrcnt that in his estiraate of tho incornc Ltx he was out to the Extent of no less than £71,50'7, and in his ecfmacQ of stamp duty he was out £53,050. I also noti<·J~and this is a mat~~r which surpri .. s mo~that in regard to the inte:,·0pt on the public debt, he over­f'>tiJ,acrcd th.>t to th., oxtent of £25,734. It uoem~ to me that is should not be a very difficult ta, k for a Treasurer to form a fairlv accurate C3~imato of tho interest on th~ puLlio d, H. I \V ut to dr-,l 1 i~h tho loan fund, and it F''~ms to me that there is some room for c·"iticism here. I am somewhat surprised that Le hon. mc·:nber for Mur­r .. miLa, who is credited with being a finan­cial critic, did not deal with this matter. It will bo notic ... d that, at the be;rinning of the ''.ne:-rcial year, the loDn fund was in credit to th· extent of £661,978. Various sum' wero ndckd to the loan fund, includ­ing the pw ',·,cd~ of a £2,000,000 loan floated in July, 1912, the pror "·ds of a £2.000,000 loan floated in NoYember, 1912, and the pro­ceeds of a £2,000,000 lo:m floated in January, 1913; making a total to ihe credit of the loan fmrd of £7,199,673. It will also be noh d that the m. '>enditure during the year v· ,s £3,913,237, leaving crec1it balanc-e at the nd of the year of "83,236,430. Tho J>oint I wi, h to c1nphasi.-:1 ic:; th'-"'t too much umwy has been lying to the nedit of tho l~·;tn :fund, '\Yhich is a bad business proposi­i wn from the State's point of view. The 'rrea;:urcr dre'\Y .atte:1tion to tho fact that ~ ~.'llle of it is earning intore~·t; but while t 11at is trun, it is not "\rni:cg anything like the inte•·cc·t tL::tt t1,~ monr:' is costing, and t;e ~tat~ i~, therefore, lc.c-ing rnoney over tne trausacbon.

'J'h T;·•EASURER: vYo arc gdting for some of it r.:lightly more than it cost UL'.

~Ir. BERTRAM: That is ·,·}; but the P'1l0nnt i E0 .··light that it i. hardly worth -'1' 11Lic-ring. Tho amoLnts which the hon. ;,entkrnc•.n has referred to are the £510,700 lc:1t to the State of Yi:;'oria, and £250,000

lent to tho S ~ate of South Aus­(9 p.m.] tralia, for a short period. That

money is c-:trning in:erest at the ra'e of 4l per cent. Tho position is that the money we borrowed in July, 1912, cost us £4 Os. 3/id. per cmrt. ; the loan floated in Nowmbcr. 1912, cost us £4 3s. per cent;

~~lr. Bertmrn.]

1312 Supply. [ ASSEJ\IBL Y.] SU'j ply.

and 1~!0 loan float,d in January, 1913, cost us ,£4 2s. ll~d. per cont., so that the whole of rhe iH01: 'Y nr':,~n.llv cost us £4 2s. ld. per com. i Ycnture to s:ty that, when ch.wgc'S and exchange are taken into con­'·ider .. ticn, that money is eurr,ing practi­c:.lly JOothiei[i. I ,,·:mt furth'l· to point out that thc;t ano.mt o: .;;780,C·~:<J i-. only a Yery s1nr'll portion of t1 o a!110''nt lying to the cr-Jdit cf tlw State of Q .wonsland in the B,mk <Jf 'England. The point I make is this: ·1 ~w.t tl- • 1nvucy 1:. i:Jg -:.o credit of the S:;.·1t,·l in .''-o D.tnk o'" En~)<>J_d js c:_,ting tb-e. State a good deal of money. Tho 'l'rc~· surer submitted a table somB time ago in which was shown the rates of interest on money lying in the Bank of T!.n;;land, and showed the interest they earned for the period from July, 1912, till April, 1913.

The TRE.\SURER : That was the latest date when the return was madB up.

Mr. BERTRAM: That is so. The highest rate of interBst ranged from 2::'. per cent. to 4~ per cent., or an <tVBrage of £3 14s. 6d. per cent. The lowest rate of interest covering the same period ranged from 1~ per cent. to 4! per cent., or an average of £2 17s. 3d. per cent., so that the mean average was £3 5s. lO~d. per cent. AHuming, for t1w sake of argument, that the wholB of the money lying to thB crBdit of this State in the Bank of England could earn the moan averagF rate per .oent., we would be losing &omething on it, inasmuch as we would only be gutting a return of £3 5s. 10d. per cent., less tho charge~ of the Bank of Eng­land, for money that was cocting us .£4 2s. 1d. pE:r cent. (Hear, hear!) It is quite obvious to hon. members that that is not a good pro­positi·:>n, and it is a matter of surprise to me that the hon. member for Townwille, the han. member for :Ylurrumba, and other han. members who are suppe>oed to be versed in finance, did not draw attention to this very question.

Tho TEFASURER: You must always have snme money available for necessities.

:O.Ir. BERTRA~I: I realise that we must have &O"Ie money available, but I say with­out a moment's hesitation that the sum of £3,286.436 lying to the credit _of the loan fund in the Ba,-,k of England Is too large an amount to be lying to the credit of the loan fund.

Tho TRJo'.\SURER: One memher on your side ·lalkod ab<Jut the indecent ha,·te in getting in.

C\Ir. BI~RTR A1T: If it was said. there was some justification for it, because it was abso­lut-ely unneressary to float a loan on the Lonclon money me.rkot in January and raise £2.000,000 when you must have had some miilions of loan money in hanrl. I do not t11ink ii shows wisdom at all to have bor­rowed moue'' and paid interest on it when there v\'as n~ need for it.

'rho Tl\EASURER: Do you say that in view Df the pruent state of the money market?

?Ir. BERTRA:i\1: Yes.

'rhe TREASUEEI\: You are welcome to that -opinion.

1\Ir. BER'rllA:M: I hope that when the TrP:lsnrer gets up to reply he will deal with that uspect of the question.

'I'he TREASURER: Really, so far, there has been nothing to reply to.

[.Mr. Bertram.

?.Ir. BERTTIA~I: It se0rns to me thai bor­rov:ing 1nono~:, a.:.._;_d vaying £4 5.". per cont., and lending it at £3 15'", is an oxt-cmely bad businef.:: ~~roposition, a.nd t llG tl1at I do not think c:Jii ~c j n -.tifieJ undn~ t~1r·se c_ir­cumstances. (H( ar, hear!) In de . ..lmg w1th t~e lh.o.n fund the:t·G is ano~hor 1 oint I want to m:· ke. If I am 1\rong, I hope tiE' Trea surer v.-ill (· iYe m'.~ so1ne ]·1forn1_ tion regard­in' it. T:,e follon•iEg appears in th0 State­rnent :-

,, D~ 1 : .. ...-:tnL!s a1:1oun~in~.{ to £1/05,100, ,., hic!1 ·"'ere i:3,ucd un~\:r th:- Loan .._-':_ct of 13·;2, were redeemed on maturity at the beginning of the calendar year out of the proceeds of the loan floated in Novem­ber, 1912."

I question whether that was a legitimate transaction or not, inasmuch as on my read­ing of the Act, money borrow0d in November, 1912, was money borrm• ed under the Act of 1910, and that Act dc•libera.tely lays down that this money was borrowed for a specific pur­pose. I would like the TreaRurer to explain that position. I am now quoting fl-om the Act of 1910, page 1845 of the Statutes. Clause 2 reads as follows :-

" It shall be lawful for the Goyernor in Council to raise by way of loan for the public service of the State such several sums o£ rnoncy, not- E'XC'P.l ding in the whole the sum of £9,991,500, as may be required for the several purpose> fol­lowing, that is to say-

Great Western Railway North Coost Railway Railways generally_:_

Southern Central Northern ...

Adclitional railway telegraphs Rolling--stock, all railways

£ 4,177,000 2,320,000

1,742,000 459,000 542,000 15,000

7:36,000

£9,991,500

It is quite evident to me that this money was earmarked for a Fpecific purpose, and, there­fore, the Trec•surer was not justified in redeeming a maturing loan.

The TREASDRER: You have not l.)okcd at the tables.

Mr. BERTRAM: The han. gentleman's own statement is that the loan has been re· deemed, and if that loan has been redeemed out of money that was borrowed for and ear­marked for a specific purpose, it was wrong; but, if it was not redeemed but simply re­newed, then the han. gentleman should haYe tcld us that it was a rcncwaJ loan. It seems to me that was not a le«itimate transaction. I hope when th·e han. gentleman gets up to reply he wiil Rhow me where in I am wrong, if I am wrong. While dealing with the ques­tion of loans, I consider it was an absolute fallacy to borrow mone:; without making provision for redeeming them. (Hevr, hear!) Dealing with the particular loan I haYe re­ferred tc, which was redeemed nt the be­ginning of the preRcnt year, I find that that man<':' was raised in 1872. The amount ''as £1,465,100. The net proceeds of tho loan were £1,286,690, or a discount of £179,610. V'l e havB paid inter . .,ft to the extent of £2,317.070. anc:l the loan has been renewed instead of redeemed, and by tho time it matures we shall have paid in intert'·,t on the new loan a sum of £2,229,080, or a total in interest of £4,546,150, and then we shall

Supply. [11 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 1313

owe the British money-lender, not £1,286,690, but £1,465,100. That only goes to show, to my mind, the absolute folly of borrowing without making some provision for redeeming the loan when it falls due. There is an instance which goes to show that by that time we shall have paid twice as much in interest as we borrowed and still owe £179,610 more than we received. If anything was necessary to show the fallacy of borrowing without making some provision for repaying it, I think it is to be found in that. Let me also refer to the loans of £11,728,000, which fall due on 1st July, 1915. Again, we have an instance here of the fallacy of borrowing without making provision for the repayment of loans. The net proceeds of those loans were £10,898,863. We shall have paid in interest the sum of £16,998,373.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: \Ve have had interest on the capital.

Mr. BERTRAM: And we 'hall owe the British money-lender £829,937 more than we have ever had. The Secretary for Railways says that we have had interest on the capital. I know that, and I know that we cannot carry out reproductive works in a country like Queensland without borrowing ; \but I do think al'o that it seems to be fool­hardy to go on borrowing money in this way without making some provision for repay­ment. I am not blaming this Government for not making provision to repay these loans, but I do hope that this year or next year, when provision is being made to meet these maturing loans, some provision will be made in that direction.

Th.e TREASURER : Surely in the face of your prevrous argument, you would not suggest that we should take steps this year to get money to redeem those loans !

Mr. BERTRAM: I am not going to sug­gest that money should be borrowed this year to meet an obligation coming due on the 1st of July, 1915, but I do think some­thing will have to be dono to meet these maturing loans, and whatever is being done I hope the Government will not lose sight of the necessity of establishing a sinking fund.

The TREASURER: You will soon see our Bill.

Mr. BERTRAM: I regret that those who were responsible for raising that money under the Acts of 1876, 1877, 1878, 1879, 1880, 1881, and 1882 did not make provision for the loans maturing on different dates.

The TREASURER: Hear, hear! I agree with you.

Mr. BERTRA::YI: It seems to me that it was very foolhardy to borrow £11,000,000 over a period of six or eight years, and have them all maturing on the same day, and I hope that this Government will not do like­wise when they are making arrangements to meet these loans. Now, reference has been made to immigration. It was my intention to speak at some length on this question, but it has been dealt with very ably by several speakers on this side of the House, and, to my mind, particularly effectively by the hon. member for Queenton this afternoon. He pr,actically said what I was going to say, and, wet·e I a less modest man, I should be in­clined to say that it was a case of great minds thinking alike. However, it seems to me that our immigration policy is altogether unsatisfactory. That was shown by the hon. member for Queenton. He pointed out that

1913---4 M

the excess of arrivals over departures last year, according to the figures of the State Statistician, was 1,862. Vve find on turning to the tables that the net expenditure last year on immigration was £44,623, or an average of £24 per head. Now, it seems to me that that expenditure is not justified, and that our policy of immigration is an un­satisfactory one, if for an expenditure of over £44,000 we can get only 1,862 immigrants. Practically the same thing applies to the year 1911-12. We spent then the sum of £143,603, with practically no result, no satis­factory result, at all events. And I think the Government should seriously consider the ad­visability of doing something in connection with immigration. Certainly the expenditure of money is not having the desired effect. Immigrants come here and they remain here for a short period, and then they go away to the other States, and the other States are reaping the benefit of that money that has been spent by us on immigration. Another rna tter to which I wish to refer is that of railways. I note from the Financial State­ment that 257 miles of railway were opened last year. The Financial Statement then goes on to say that there are still nineteen railways under construction, totalling 1,387 miles.

Tho SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: They are not all actually under construction.

Mr. BERTRAM: The Treasurer's Finan­cial Statement says that the following rail­ways-giving a list of nineteen, totalling 1,387 miles-are under construction.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Those are the total lengths.

Mr. BERTRAM: We aJ:e also told that 533 miles of railway have been passed by Parliament but have not yet been commenced, so that there are a total of 1,910 miles of railway passed by Parliament but not yet con­structed. The point I wish to make is this·: that at the present rate of construction, some of those lines will not be constructed for eight or ten years, and yet the hon. member for \V arwick is optimistic enough to believe that the via recta will be proceeded with within the next year or two and the hon. member for Cunningham, who I just see entering the Chamber, also is optimistic enough to believe that it will be built this year.

Mr. GRAYSON: No doubt about it.

Mr. BERTRA:\I: As one who is in favour of that line, I hope that the hon. member's optimism is justified and that he will not be disappointed, but I am not so optimistic, and I want to say that, at this rate of construc­tion, it is a thing a very long way off.. The tables show, unfortunately, that our rarlways are not as profitable as they were, and that is a matter for regret, and one that deserves criticism. because I believe the Government arc to a great extent responsible for it. The Government are to a great extent responsible for our railways not earning tho rate of interest on the capital invested that they were earning two years ago, and that is a state of affairs which could have been avoided and for which the Government are deserving of censure. There are at present some nine­teen railways under construction, and a grc·at many of those railways arB not earning interest, and will not be earning interest for many years to como. It would be much better if fewer railwavs were under construc­tion, and the Goverr!ment did something to

Jlr. Bcrtt'arn. j

1314 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

expedite the finishing of some of the rail­ways m hand, so that they might be in a position to earn some interest on the capital invested. For the year 1910-11 the return on the capital invested in our railways was £3 18s. lOd. per cB!lt. ; the following year it fell to £3 9s. lld., and last year it fell to £3 8~.. 6d. per cent. It seems to me that the Government are pursuing an unwise policy in going on with the construction of so many lines, instead of completing some of them; but no doubt it has been done to placate some of their supporters. It would be very much wiser on their part if they would withdraw the men who are engaged on some of those lines and put them on to other lines, in order that those lines might be completed and yield some retnrn on the capital invested as early as possible. The tables show that, in 1910-11, the railways were paying more than interest on the capital invested, but that in 1911-12 they were a charge on the revenue to the extent of £56,206, and that last year that charge was increased to £85,928.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Is that on opened lim•-;?

}.lr. BERTRA;\1: That is not on opened linh, but on lines constructed and under con­;truction. I notn that it is intended to spend something like £500,000 le•-cl on railways this year than was spent last yrur. That prot-ably IS nece•·-'lary, but we have a large number of men who are earning a livinr; at railway con­struction work, and it sEOems to me that a reduction in the expenditure is going to re­su!L iu a number of those men being thrown out of work. I hope that such will not be the cas-e. but that is what I fear. There is just another matter that I should like to refer to before I sit down, and that is the matter of harl:our improvements. I notice that the Treasurer is very optimistic as usual in his referencBs to the increased facilities afforded for shipping accommodation in Brisbane. What I have to complain of is that there is no mention in the Statement of increased docking acoommodation. That is a matter for regret. There is a growing need just now for great docking accommodation in Brisbane. I need only mention the instance of the "\Yaipara" to prove that. She came here and could not get into the dock. She went down to Sydney, and I have it on the best authority that some £30,000 was spent on the vessel there, of which £17,000 was paid in wages. I think it is the duty of the Go­vernment to do something in the direction of affording increased docking accommodation at an early date, as quite a number of vessels are compelled to go to the Southern States because of the inadequacy of the accommoda­tion in the Brisbane dock. The Government seem to be too prone to allow work to go elsewhere-too prone to send work to the old country when it can be done in Queensland. \Vhen a couple of boilers were wanted for one of the dredges-the "Casuarina," I think-the Government sent to the old country for them, instead of having them manufactured in Queensland workshops by Queensland workmen. The other evening the Premier made some disparaging remarks about the Labour party as financiers. All I shall say in reply to that is that the Fisher Government proved that they were just as able to conduct the financial affairs of the Commonwealth as anv Liberal Government had ever done. As a matter of fact, they proved that they were able to do it in a very much better way. It will be remem-

[Mr. Bertram.

bnred that, when :Mr. Fisher resigned office some years ago, and the Deakin Administra­tion came in, he left a fairly large surplus, and that, during the ten months the Dealon ::>1inistry held the reins of govurnment, _they got rid of that surplus and left a defimt of between £500,000 and £600,000. The Ficher Governm,_:-nt can1e into office again, and one of the first things they did was to repeal a Loan Act pa'"'od by the Liberal Administra­tion mnpowPrin,-, the Govornnu~nt to borrow £3.0CJ,OOO to build warships. The Fisher Go­vernment repealed that Act, and built their \\ :,rships out of rcvpnuc, and, after being in office three years, left a surplus of about £2,500,000. 'The Premier stated the other evening that :\Jr. Fisher said the State Go­vernments would be in financial difficulties before the CommoPwealth Government were. 'l'he Premier denies that, but, whether he said it or not, we !mow that the Government of this State were pleased to accept a loan of £1,000,000 from the Commonwealth Treasurer.

l\1r. KIRWAN: And were glad to renew it.

Mr. BERTRAM: And, as the hon. member says, were glad to renew it. During the election campaign I noticed an article on this very subject of Federal fipance in one of the Conservative newspapers-the \Yarwick "Argus "-a paper which, I believe, sup­ports the Liberal Government. The article reads as follows :-

"Of the criticism, merited and other­wise, which is just now being directed against the Fisher Administration, the !Past defensible is that which attacks its financial administration. The Central Go­vernment is the only Government in Aus­tralia without a public debt; it has oon­structed and proposes to maintain its navy out of revenue; it has initiated costl3· works in inaugurating the Federal capital and the \\'estern transcontinental; and with each succeeding year it has been able to disclose useful Treasury sur­pluse,. With the details of policy there may be ample room for difference of opinion, but there is something incon­gruous in spendthrift State Treasurers, who are constantly juggling with increas­ing public debts, huge current commit­ments, and the embarrassment inseparable from finding money on a market that is growing hostile, a'"sailing an Adnlinistra­tion that has, so far, been conducted on a plane above these disturbing influen<"''"· Unimpeachable financial adminstration is not the ' long-suit ' of any of the State Governments. In all the circumstances this criticism of Federal finance by Liberal Treasurers and Liberal journals has an aspect of political hardihood that is interesting and not a little amusing."

I think the gentleman who wrote that article must have had the present Treasurer in his mind's eye.

At half-past 9 o'clock,

The CHAIRMAN said: Under Standing Order No. 11, I call upon the hon. member for Bremer, Mr. Cribb, to relieve me in the chair.

Mr. CRIBB took the chair accordingly.

" ::Yir. STEVENS (Ro.,eu•ood): I have not the slightest intention of making a long speech. The sbtte of the Committee this evening proves that hon. members have be­come fairly tired of the debate, .and I also

Supply. [ ll SEPTEMBER.] Supply. • 1315

think that if even the honourable and learned leader of the Opposition could not find any ground for serious criticism in the Financial Statement, that is very clear proof that it must be very satisfactory indeed to the House and to the country, After all the laboured criticism that has been heaped upon the TrE·asurer during the debate I was very pleased indeed to hear an hon. member who understands something about finance, like the hon. member for Towns­ville, get up and frankly congratulate the Treasurer on his Financial Statement. I have much pleasure in agreeing with the remarks "hich fell from the hon. member. His experience and knowledge of finanmal matters are such that anything he says on such a question must carry very consider­able weight. During this debate-which can scarcely Le called one on the financial ques­tion-a good d0al has been said about trusts, monopolies, and combines, or, as the, hon. member for Keppel put it, monopolistic combines. An endeavour has been made to prove that trusts and combines are the cause of the increased cost of living not only in Queensland but in other countries, and when the hon. member for Enoggera was speak­ing this evening, the hon. member for Mun­dingburra interjected something to this effect-" Did you ever know a t1·ust or com­bine that was not injurious, or that did not use its power to the detriment of the pub­lic?" I think it is only necessary to refer to some of the leaders of the Labour party in the South to prove that that is not the opinion of members of the Labour party themselves. The Attorney-General in the late Federal Government, for instance, pub­licly stated that he considered that com­binations were desirable in order to reduce the cost of manufacture and the cost of articles of public utility to the people.

Mr. FOLEY: That was not what he said at all.

Mr. STEVENS : Undoubtedly it was what he said, and other leaders of the Labour party have said the same thing.

Mr. RnN: Whether he said it or not, it is oorrect.

Mr. STEVENS: Undoubtedly it is cor­rect, and I am very pleased to hear the leader of the Labour party acknowledge that that is so.

Mr. FOLEY : He was speaking of the coal combination then.

Mr. STEVENS: And of other combina­tions of a similar nature.

Mr. RYAN: But he believes in regulating those that are detrimental to the public.

Mr. STEVENS : If you confine it to those, there is no hon. member on this side of the Chamber who will disagree. But, when it comes to a wholeilale condemnation of combinations, then I say that such talk is not sincere, because every hon. member must know that combinations are certainly desirable in order, as the hon. member for Enoggera put it, to reduce the cost of pro­<luction and to enable people to purchase the nece,,aries of life at a lower rate than they would otherwise get them at. The hon. member for Keppel, in his remarks con­cerning monopolies, cited the case of the farmers of South Australia, and he stated that they do not receive fair Vf1lue for their wheat on account of the actwn of a

ring or combine which controls the wheat market. If the hon. member knew anything about the conditions of the wheat farmers in South Australia, he would know that they have their own co-operative company, which conducts their business for them, and supplies them with the fullest information of the markets. The farmers of South Aus­tralia place their wheat on the markets of the world, and are not in any way dependent upon any ring or combine to do their busi­ness for them.

Mr. KIRWAN: That was what a commis­sion which was specially appointed to in­quire into the matter reported.

Mr. STEVENS: The hon. member for Keppel did not make it cl!Jar whether that commission was in South Australia or in New South Wales, because he referred to both States. I have been in the premises of the co-operative company in Adelaide and met some of the directors, some of whom are members of the Legislature of South Australia. We need not trouble ourselves about the farmers of South Au,tralia, be­cause they are very well able to look after thernsclve~. What I wish to impress upon the farmers of Queensland is that they also are in a position to conduct their own busi­nesq, and the n1iddlmnen, of whorn we have heard so much, need not trouble them at all. A grPat deal of anxiety has been shown as to the country party, and there is evidently a desire to make a split in this party by creating dissatisfaction amongst the mem­bers of the party who represent farming constituencies.

Mr. RYA:-1 : Who tried to do that?

Mr. STEVENS: The endeavour has been made to drive a wedge into the Liberal party and cause a split in its ranks.

Mr. RYAN: Who made that attempt?

Hon. R. PHILP: The leader of the Opposi­'tion for one. (Laughter.)

Mr. STEVENS : Other members o£ the Opposition also. I do not intend to quote a number of figures from the Financial State· ment as has been done bv other hon. mem­bers who have spoken. I think that is un­nccossarv, as I do not think tho quoting of figures carries any weight in a debat0 of this kind. I notice, hov.ever, that the hon. mem­ber for Rockharnpton mentioned that there was a very large increase in the inter_cst bill. I understood him to say that tho mcrease was something like £250,000 for the last year, and I took the trouble to look up the tables, and I find that for the last ten years the increase in our interest bill only amounts to £296,765. I .do not think that is a rmrti_ou­larly alarming rate of increase, cons1dermg the amount of reproductive work that has been carried out during that period, and also the increase in our population. The rate per head of the population has cemained practically stationary during the last twet.ty years. I find it has ranged from £2 12s. 3d. per head to £3 per head, and last year it amounted to £2 17s. lld. I think that the Treasurer is to be congratulated on the caution he has shown during the past year in regard to expenditure. Only three depart­ments in the nublio service show an increased expenditure, as compared with the previous year. Those are the Home Department, the Department of Public Instruction, an<;! the Railway Department. In the Railway Department and the Department of Public

],.[ r. Stevens. J

1316 ,supply, [ASSEMBLY.] Special Adjournment.

Instruction we must expect to find increases, and with regard to the Home Secretary's Department, that department has control of a very large number of public utilities, and the expenditure, in order to make for effi­ciency, must be very large. We have heard a great deal to-night about the splendid finance shown by the late Federal Govern­ment in piling up big surpluses. I maintain that big surpluses merely mean that the Treasurer has taken money out of the pockets of the people that he did not require, and that it c'ould be much better used by the people themBBlves for the advancement of the country. :Members opposite have charged the Government with having done nothing to settle people on the land and in assisting them to make homes. In looking through tho trust funds account, I find that the debit of £1,800,000 is very largely made up of three items. These are: Agricultural Bank, £456,000; closer settlement, £693,000; and Workers' Dwellings Act, £432,000. Those amounts have undoubtedly been expended in assisting people to settle on the land and to make homes for themselves, both in the city and in the country. That being the case, the Government cannot bP charged with having neglected their duty in that respect. I am pleased to note that the revenue from the railways has increased, although the per­centage is slightly belovv that of last year, and that undoubtedly is easily accounted for by the number of miles of new lines that have been opened, and which are not, and cannot be expected at pre-ent to be, earning interest on the cost of construction.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Increased wages without an increase in rates and fares.

Mr. STEVENS: Also, as the Minister says, an increased rate of wages without an increase of \\ork in return therefore. Shorter hours and more pay must of necessity in­crease the cost of running any business with­out making it more efficient. With other hon. members, I regret that it has been found necessary to curtail the vote for railway con­struction. As was pointed out by the hon. member for Maree, the reduction in that vote amounts to something like £500,000. Al­though I regret the necessity for that curtail­mont, at the same time I recognise the wisdom of the Treasurer in exercising caution in the matter of loan expenditure while the money market is in a very inflated and un­satisfactory condition, and when we have, in the near futuro, to make provision for the renewal of very large loans. The reduced vote for public works and the neces,ity for care will make it rather difficult for the Go­vernment to justify some of the increases which we find are down on the Estimates for members of the public service. The fact that members of this Chamber refrained from in­creasing their own salaries should have bPcn taken as an indication that they thought the money could be better expended in public works than in raising salaries, and I shall await with considerable interest the explana­tions which the heads of the variou,s depart­ments have to give to the House when their re­spective votes come before us. I can scarcely think that these increases would be recom­mended without very good reasons, but very good reasons indeed will have to be shown in order to justify some of the increases which are foreshadowed. With regard to land settlement, I favour every encouragement to immigration and to the settlement of tho right class of people on the land. As the hon. member for Townsville said, no one wants anyone but the right class, but the

[Mr. Stevens.

trouble sometimes is to get them. It would not be unwise to allow bona fide settlers, who are anxious to make homes for themselves, from two to five years free of any payments. There can be no doubt that short hours of labour, high wages, and pleasant conditions, attract, not only immigrants, but our own young men from the country to come into the cities and live there.

Mr. RYAN: They cannot get land in the country.

Mr. STEVENS: We can got land in the country, but unfortunately the conditions are made so attractive in the city that young men come into the cities whore they can enjoy life. They have to bear hardships and struggles in order to make homes for them­sel Vf'>J in the country.

:Mr. TROUT: The picture shows are a great attraction.

Mr. STEVENS: The picture shows, in my opinion, are the curse of the present day, and are doing more to demoralise our young people than anything else that can be men­tioned.

:Mr. RYAN: That is very scathing.

Mr. STEVENS: It is scathing, perhaps, but I think tho hon. gentleman will agree with me that there is a great deal of truth in it. The hon. member for Maranoa spoke to-night aboJJt nationalisation. In answer to an interjection of mine, he stated that the difference between nationalisation and a man Qonducting a bnsinPss of his own was that a nationalised business was carried on for the benefit of the customers-of the people who used them; whereas a private business was conducted for the benefit of the owner of the business. He went on then to speak about our railways, which are a national concern; but every member of the House must know that, every session of Parliament, the hon. member for Maranoa rises in his place, and moves a vote of censure on the Government for not carrying on the railways for the benefit of the people, and yet that is a national undertaking which he says must of necessitv be conducted for the benefit of the customers, and not for tho benefit of the owner of the business.

Mr. FoLEY: That is quite true, is it not?

Mr. STEVENS: It may be quite true, but it appears to me to be very contradictory. In conclusion, I wish to congratulate the Treasurer upon the accuracy of his Esti­mates, and for the careful and capable man­ner in which he has conducted the business of the country, and I trust that his Esti­mates and hopes for the current year will be mc>re than realised. I am sure that, if they ar<'. the people of Queensland will be very well sazisfied to keep such a capable man in the position of Treasurer as long as. he likes to hold that position.

The House resumed. Tho TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the Com­mittee obtained leave to sit again on Tuesday next.

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT.

The PREMIER: I move that the House, at its rising, do adjourn until Tuesday next.

Question put and passed. The House adjourned at five minutes to 10:

o'clock.