Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 28 OCTOBER 1936

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions. [28 OcTOBER.] Questions. 1197

WEDNESDAY, 28 OCTOBER, 1936.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. Pollock, Gregory) took the chair at 10.30 a.m.

QL:ESTIO:\'S.

ALLEGED CRUELTY TO HoRSES CARRIED ON RAILWAYS.

Mr. GODFREY MORGAN (Mw·illa) asked the SecTet.ary for Transport-

" 1. Has hio attention been <'allcd to an article appearing in the ' Telegraph' on Monday, 26th Octob~r, head,od ' Lighthorsemcn Charge Ra>lways w1th bad Treatment of Ilorses'?

"2. \Vill he and. if sustained, to it irl11JO~sible for such cruelty to an~mals to occur again?"

The SECRETARY FOR TRA:--.ISPORT {Hon. t..T. Dash, Jlundingburra) replied-

" 1. Yes.

" 2. Inquiries were made at the mili· tary headquarters, and the foilowing jnforrnation \vas given

' That a truck of horses on behalf of the Second Fourteenth Lighthorse Regiment was consigned to Ipswich on the night of 23rd October. Horses arrived at Ipswich in the early morn· ing. Some were a bit tuckea up in the legs. (A normal condition after some hours in trucks.) None was injured, nor was it at any time con· sidered that a horse should be destroyed.

' The horses referred to as being returned to Brisbane in floats were three horses, one suspected with strangles, one with laryngitis, and one with an injured tendon in the off. foreleg.

' The first two, it may be reasonably assumed, developed as normal diseases, and the tendon was strained on mili. tary duty.'"

TREATMENT OF DAIRY FARMERS AFFECTED BY DROUGHT.

Mr. MAHER (West Moreton) asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock-

" 1. Will he take action to discontinue deductions by butter and cheese factories on account of orders of the Agricultural Bank in the case of clients of the bank whose financial position is being severely affected by the prevailing drought con· ditions?

. "2. Will he issue instructions to dairy mspectors and other officers concerned of his department that in the matter of onforccmont of various Acts and rvg-n­lations they should take into considera· tion the hardships which farmnrs may be undergoing as a result of the drought, and sho,v tho utlnost leniency in cases where such treatment appears to be justified by the existing conditions? "

The SECRE'J'ARY FOR AGRICUIJTURE A::-.ID STOCK (Hon. F. W. Bulcock, lJ(Ircoo) replied-·

"1. It is the usual practice of the Agricultural Bank to give sympathetic consideration to the financial position of clients adversely affected by drought conditions.

PRIZES AND C0::\1::.\iJSSION, " GOLDE~ CASKETS."

1198 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HOME AFFAIRS (Hon. E. M. Hanlon, lthaca) replied-

" The commission paid on No. 20 n1arnmoth casket \Vas-

BrisLanc agents Countrv rrgcnts Golden~ In Yestrnents

£ s. d. 2,109 0 0 1.780 4 0 6,532 18 3

The commission paid on No. 464 5s. 6d. ''nskot-

£ • 'i. d. £ F . d. Bri.'3bane agents on

5 6d. tlch:ets 614 15 6 Brisbnnc agents on

,hare tickets 491 16 0 ------ 1,106 11 6

Country agC'nts on 5s. 6d. tickets 510 11 6

Country ag-cnt:3 on share tickets 408 9 0

919 0 6 Golden Invc,tments

on 5s. 6d. tickets 115 10 0 115 10 0

" As thoro were ten 5s. 6d. caskets filled during the currency of No. 20 mammoth casket, the total commission paid dur­ing the period from 28th J uno, 1936. to 21st Scptt•mber, 1936, a period of eighty­five days 7 \Vas-

Brisbane agent~ Coccntry agents Golden Investrncuts

£ 13.169 10.970

7.682

•· As again::-,t t1lc pa:nncnts to Go1df'n Inv<'Stillellts that organisatlon has to bear the whole cost of sales promotion. ach-er­ti8ing, printing. etc .. whereas within the State the costs are born<' be· the manage­ment of the (~olden Casket.

'' The tota] prize lTIClney for No. 20 nu-tnl­moth mskd wa-s £97.000. Tl1o total prize monP:V for Xo. 464 5'. 6d. casket was £17.550. The net profit> for Xo. 20 mammotl> casket was £32.275 18s. Sd. The nPt profih for Xo. 464 5-.. 6d. ca;;ket was £6.·;84 (approximately)."

PAPER. The follO\Ying paper was laid on the

table:-Procl:tmation ancl Rc-c;-nlation Xo. 54

nndc·r tht-' Djs( 1-scs in P1ants Acts. 1"29 \o 1935.

SUPPLY.

REsr~n·TJON OF CmnnTTEE-EsTIMATES­TExTH ALLOTTED DAY.

Ulr. Han.wn. nuranda, in the chair.)

ESTIMATES IX CHIEF, 1936-37. DEPAnnrEN'r OF PuBLIC IxSTRl'CTIOK.

QUEENSLAND AG!UCULTURAL HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE.

Question stated-" That £22,378 be granted for

' Queensland Agricultural High School and College.' "

Mr. BRAND (I si.,) [10.36 a.m.]: The remarks of the two previous speakers who addressed themselves to this vote and of the Minister in charge have indicated CJ.Uite clearly the high degree of efficiency obtamed by the Gatton Agricultural High School and

[Mr. Brand.

College, an institution of State-wide import­ance. It is interesting to read in Pro­fessor J\lurray's report that a great improve­ment has taken p:ace in the activitie;, of the college during recent years. I think that the report and the remarks that have alt·oady been made under this vote are a tribute to the unselfish work of a I! concerned in the administration of this college. In 1924 there \'.ere only thirty-three students attending the college. Last year the enrolment reached the record of 289, and of that number twenty­four students arn following 1: niYersity courses. That is important. because from that college we hope to draw men who will be engaged in the re~earch work in the various industries of the State. Va:u­able work in soil SLlrYC~Ys and inves-tigation of diseases has already been carried out b,­nicn who have follovved Lniversity course~, many of them ha\·ing obtained thoir c·duc.O,­tion at the Gatton Agricultural High School and College.

Some years ago the college was controlled by the Department of Agriculture and Stock, and it scen1s as if this great improvon1ent. in the efficiency of the college is attributable to the transfer of its adminstration to the Department of Public Instruction. ;'\atur­allv, the- offiC'crs concerned deserve a gr01,t deal of credit for thcic \York when the ?Y1inister in charge of thi.s vote is able to say that the college ranks as one of the finest in the Commonwealth. \Ye should be very proud of this when we remember that 'uch a long-established college as Hawke·" .. bury has been long regarded as a very eflicient institution.

It is intcr£'sting to note that one of the many branches of the college's activities i, that of maize breeding. \Ye know that the grov\·ing of n1aizc is of particu~ar irnport­anco to the settlers in new areas. The col­lege has done sornc good work in n1ai:::e propagation. The report stalt•s that fj,-p new cros.sbrcd lines have brPn developed by the- co]ege, a11d rna ny strains arc being carried through the earlier ~tagc:.; of inbrC'oJ­ing. special attc,nt.ion being paid to ~eh1c­tion within strains dcriYC'd frorn earh­varotjes such a-; Funk's 90-Dav and LE'au~­ing. It is important to know· that the col­lege is doing this experimcntnl \York in .:t prirnary industry that is so irnportant to tho: State.

Professor MurraY says that 325 sill!rh crosses 'n·re te.-tod in 1934-35. Specia.lly selected Fitzroy 'vas used as a check. H sa vs-

. " One hundred and forty two cro ·'"' showed significant incrca:-;.es over chccl..: : eighteen were signifiranfy inferior in vielcl to check. One hnnch·ed and sixt five crosses havo been discarrlccl . . · _ Of the good crosees thirh·-seYPn lmvc outyieldcd check signiflc:mt.ly m-er each of the last two seasons. the a vcrage increase being of the order of 30 pet· cent. This is regarded as a distinct! v encouraging result. 11

•

There is no doubt that if the college rtm propagate a strain of maize that will inereasp our present yield by 30 per cent. it will have achieyed something of groat import­ance in the life of tbe State. I am also pleased to note that the Minister has proYided a. glass house at the college to enable that part of the work of the college to b" deYcloped.

There is no doubt that the students ar1~ seized of the importance of the institution,

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] SupplY,. 1199

and I hope that the :\1inistcr a11cl his officers will ensure that essential agricultural prac­tice will be taught to tlwm. I also noticed in tlw report that cousi,]crahlc attention is gi\'C'll to fanu craft~ 8nch a;-:; blacksrnit.hing, carpc:ntcring, ~,addlcry. nnd tinsrnithing. It i.:;; c~scntial that a11 fann rccrnlts should huYc a kno,d•'dgc of these crafts if they a:t·e to bP surc1 s~fnl farmers.

Speaking p;cncrally, it is v1easing to note that tlE) (1t'l1artrncnt is ('ruJ.caYouring to Sl1l'('ad Pclu('a tion in agricnltura l matters not o.n1,v in this co11cgc, but also through project elnbs at State and rnral echooh. Doys and girJsJ too, are encouraged to display initiative in tlH'ir -...-ork and thu3 becorno e1ninentlv fitted to pl<>y tllcir part in the rural life ·of the country. The college is the final training cc·ntrc where boys may become equipped with the knmvlcclg0 required to enable them not only to engage in prin1ary production, but also to take an intelligent part in the organised control of the Yarious prjn1ary industries. That is a matter of paramount importance to-day, especially when it i' remembered that up to date the primary producers have been able to lay down a wonderful scheme of organised control with­out an:v special training in an agriC'ultural college. rrhcy have been SO SU('Cessful in designing a scheme of orderly control that it is found necessary to take a referendum throughout the Con{monwealth on the ques­tion whether the Commonwealth Government should be given power to continue the pre­sent organisation, 'vhich \vas succe-::.:.;fully <:hallenged before the Privy Council a few months ago. The boys at the agricultural oollcge should be given an opportunity to gain knowledge in the work of controlling primary industry, and I hope that the Minister will help thr-m to obtain a thorou(rh understanding of the n1an.~ prob10n1~ ron­frontin;r it. so that the~,- ma:.- be :>hlc to prE's(•nt ::.:olutions of their problerns to the SNTctar~v for ~.\trrirultnrc and Stork in th0 1nosi- conYinring \Vay.

The RFCRETARY FOR PCDLTC I:\'­STRCCTION (Hou. F. A. Coop~r. Jlremu) [10.·:6 a.11J.]: In reply-, I should like to point ont that thP c_h~pnrtnv:-nt is n1aking pre­paration for spcrial training- in cmnJPction with d.•irying. The difficulty in the past l1:---; lwc11 the lack of ncccs-::.ary equip111ent, bnt Y' ' hope to be able to ovcrco ·le tlwt nh tncJe in the fnt-ure and thn~ h(' able• to

the 'ork that we should like to do in direction.

It n1ay be of intcr0st to the Committee to know· that the Gm-crnment of Tasmania hnYP asked rn.-- clepartm0nt j£

Item Sehool

three etnclents from of

lll•c

J-Tigh

The SECRET.\RY FOR PUBLIC IN­STICCCTl(J:-.-;- (lion. F. A_, Cc_,opCi', Rrcnu ·) "[10.~8 a..!n.J: I nlo\·c-

,, That, £350 be grunted for · T'he \Von1eu's College.' "

This college, which is partly supported by public subscription. is doing particularly good work. It is a residential college for country girls who arc holders of open scholarships to the Cniversity and others. It also accommo­dates a few of the trainees who are nt tlw Training College.

Itcru agreed to.

E~DO\V::\IE~T, FEES AXD ALLO\VAXCES (SEC'O~~DARY EDcCATION).

Th<> SECilEL\.RY FOit FlJB.LlC J::\"­STRCCTIO:\' (Hon. F .• \. Coop(']', JJr• m' r) [10.49 a.m.]: I mon -

"That £69,200 be granted for 'Endow­ment, Fees and Allowances (Secondary Education).' "

This is the usual grant that is rnadc in connection 1.vith S(~condar~/ schools. The 1nain o.•ndmnnent iz in the sch~dnlcs, but ihis item is for the purpose of scholarships a11<l allow­auccs to secondary ~ehools.

Item agreed to.

STATE SCHOOLS.

The SECRETARY FOR PL'D.LIC IN­STRCCTIOI\: (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Brcmer) [10.50 a. m.]: I move-

" That £1,275,827 be granted for ' State Schools.' "

This is the main vote of the department, and is required to meet all expenditure on account of balarics and allowances, vvage~ of cleaners, school requisites, sanitatior 1

costs, and all general contingencies on account of all State primary, provisional, intermediate, rural, and high sehoo1s.

Mr. :VlAI-IER: (TT' est Jiarcton) [10.51 a .. m.l: At tho outset. I wish to say how regretful OYer!· hon. l1H'n1bcr of the Oppo.s-ition i~--anc1 I arn sure• th1:3 scntirnent is l1l'ld equallY by hon. nH·mbers opposite· -that tiJe Dirrctor of Education. 1\fr. l\lcKL'll.tHL. i~ n.bout to la:v down the in1 port ant 1\ ork he has carriud out in such a highl~· n1eritorious and capable rnannt'r o~."Cl' so rnany ,Y('Hl'

I-I OXOFR\DLE Jli~:J.ID.ERS: llcar, lwar!

~fr. l\_L~IIER : ~~r. 3.lci{cnnu is n public o]icFr of the fi1wst tvne. and I arn Yrrv ~orr\~ the tin1c ha::; cor~~ in his li£0 \\ h0n h~~ has. to how to th(1 irH~Yltable and coufonn to the l'l'(rtdation that prr scribe that oflirJ'J'' n-:.ust retire frorn tl:c public f'.Cl'Yicr- at <:J

certain E,·cr',T hon. n1prnbcr on thi:-; of the · :'.lcKenna gn:titudc for the f::.C'l'Yirc• he

has rendered to Queensland in the develop­of the edncational :-.0-r-Yico

the Dir0e:tor of hope tlutt opportun

lJP0n con-coun">Pl tl1o

pr()~ic1ed v:1Lh distinction fer so 1n~n~' }'f'ilt' \Ye

tru:.-t that in his rctirenv'nt he y,-ill Pnjo: peace of mind, and rf'tain happy memories of his associat.ion \Yitb the great educat1cnal ::-f'rYtce of the State.

to Par1i~nncnt thnt }fr.

and his po\YC rs of \Yonlcl haYo rnade his r0port on a bro:1 cl~w}:pn he inquirPd inl o t1H: tionnl ·"~~.;,h•m opt)rat1nrr jn Brit~~n and r·1sc:> \Yhcrc~~ ;-;•ry intere:.::.ting one to nlcmlJC~rs

Mr. lllaher.]

1200 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

of Parl1arncnt and the pc0]1lc of the State. Th<• '' Couricr~::Vlail ., stated that :11r. l\Ici(Pnlla n1adc' such a r0port to the dPpart~ 1nent. a11d I thoupln it "\Yould hase bcc:1 rcg·ai·dpfl ns ~ufticic-,:tly to hn\'C be.Pn iuclnde<l in tlw r"eport of depart~ lnf'nt to Parlia111cnt. Tt Inav be an inh•ntion of tl1c ~\iini_--tCl' to h::tYC thC report. n1ade by ~Ir. ~Ic1(Prln8. printed and subn1ittod to Parlicuncnr. at. a later ;;:tflgc.

JJr. Ed'.~ anl·, thP Chit>f Iu-:lH.-'ctor. has Yi~itcd _\nlcrica, and no doubt he obtained YPry intt'rc..;;ting i11fonnution in the conr:o;c of his tour that will be Ycry useful to the dcj lal·hncnt a...:: tirne passes.

I notice :':\Ir. Riddell in the lobby this morning. I am glad to see him back again after a protracted and severe illness. and I hope t hilt he is fully restored to good health and \\ill lw ablC' to CilJTv on with his usual ,·igour and ability the "important dut: he di :--ch:1 rge~ in the dcpartrncnt.

The reference' that haYo been made by th0 1-filll.5h:r to the declining cnrolnwnts are of out· tandino· irnnortancc. Thcv suO'o·e3t that the popuf~lhon \c; at a standstill, pcr~~'lps because of thP effect. of tb great social prohlPm of Lirth contml. According to the figure~, tiH' enroln1r;nt in 1935 at prin1ary r.choc1:-; cle(..J.inc ,-l b:: 2,144, as con1parC'd \Yith that of 1934. The1t i.; a verv substantial droyJ. It i:-; a bad thing to ~ec tl;P cnrohnenl::.; 0f ehilclr~·n at thP primarY schools of the State ded1nin~·. The C'OnlparJ.ti\-c figures are worth quot1!lg herco, for the infonnatiou both of hon. lll<'nJ'('I:'' of tl~c Conrn1ittcc and of th~ public--

:917 1920 1923 1926 1929 1032 193:5

130.508 143.423 152,578 161.120 16'2.226 E8.60l F9,148

Thcr<"'L \Y 1· n ~ub~tn r:tinl incrcnH~ up to 1929, v;lwu th<' :-do\YlJJg (hnYll procc p; UPgan. Thc·P :-hot.1ld p:i ..... -e ri c: to ypry ~r·rions thnu~ ht f'\ C'r\- 011e of us \\-ho hac: tlte •xP!iar(' r:f our P.L ;to at h:::1rt. It sPerus c·.-idvnr t1:Jt blrt1l c~•lltro1 i:- urlfortunatl•l b~-.ing pnu; i,;.;l'd f-::Pel~· in the connnunit;· It, is a tan~ thing- no,, to :-'f'C' fan1illes 1ikP of tw('nt:;-fiu• -or thirt~Y yt_ars ::-:.go. lf \\'8 arc going to hold thi:- cuuut ry. it is itnpf'l'D t.iYn th ·.t r!Jt• :lOpulation of th0 Stcttr ~hou1d

;,., u normal W.L". The birth-control l:as ('XC'rci<:cd ·the n1inds of our

le~alc;·;.; <UHl poliLical thinkers for SlJine

\Ye J1<1VC the extraordinary posi­tion our countrv that whil::;t our owu POllul·•1:ou dPditH·~ · Vi'C' are acting, .as 1t

Wl'l'C', in a dog-ln-the-rnanger nHulncr. with rr-gard to anyon0 eJ."c-·:3 corning i11to the c 'l.Hltr:, and h(·lping u-:. to deYc1op and hold it.

Or~t~ iblng ~rising out of this n1attf'r that I th:nk is worthv of serious cons1dt1 ration hr:or0 ir;, i.hc b1u.tan't. n1an11Pr iu \Yhich contra­ccptiYe~ arc aclvPrtiscd in our Pre-:s.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! A discussion of that subject is not in order at this stage.

Mr. MA HER: It all has a bearing on a very great problem, and I think it might well exercise the rninds of hon. n1cnrbPrB cf this Committee at a later stage, when the suitable opportunity arises. Tho fact rmn~ins, however, that in our schools to-day we have a decline in the enrolmcnts of our

[Mr. Maher.

rn·lrnary aud high ~chools, \Yhjcl1 suggc.~t-­that the populat.ioll is on thP down gmdP. rrha.t is a. scriou:-3 1llatter in a rnagnificentlJ­proclucLi\"e and fertile St tc like QuPPJlS~ land.

Mr. TAYLOH: Did I ]JPnr YOU correct!:··; Did. I hear you say tbj 1~ ; rna.gniflcently procluctiYc and fertile Slate?

:\Ir. ''IAHER: 1Jm1oubtcclly that is so. J\.1r. TAYLOR: Then whn.t. were you singing·

ont for relief for a f1'W days ago?

:\!r. 1\L~\.1-IEH: Doe,;; the hon. UlCrllbt~r tllcan with regard to droughts'?

::\lr. TAYLOlt: That eYerything v. _ts chil'd up.

I\Ir. :'1-f),tfER: Tl1t~ l1on. lllt'Jllbcr kno\YS ·;e1·.~ wPll the positivn uf thinr,..s. lie kno'\vs t.hat although \\"C }Ja\·e a rnagnifi_cen

1t Statu

,, {~ do suffer frmn pl)riods of drou!.tnt, au.J tlwt. i::; t!Jc llosition of lllO~L conl~tr.i.c i11 th•.: world. There arc only n few coantrics have a regular rainfall th t renJOn?s danger of drought.. 'The hon. rnernbcr kno:v-5 \"<.1 l'Y well \Yhat a fine State Queensland rs. If ~Qucc11sland \Ycrc properly go\·errJCcl v:e should have not one rnan out of \Vork, and \YC should not haYe prob]uus such as \YC

haYf~ to con1-.:.icler to-da~·.

The work of the Department of Public Instruction has bePn carried on t.hroughonr. Lhe ,vears in H. very cffici0nt way. I arn Yer:~ proud indeed of the very oxl'ellent body of 'roung men and \Vmnen who are going out fl·orn our traininr: schools each year thoroughly equipped for the Ycry great pro~ fession to which thcv have dedicated them·· selns. Condii ions ai·e much different to~day fron1 \vhat thcv \Yerc in olden. tirncs, vdwn jn rn~nv in~ta;'lCPS te~chcrs were not fully qualifirc't and the children in '~orrre district:3 sufft.rccl accordingly

~O\Y, C'Ycn in th<: Yery renroh~ ar0as of the St1i0, young n1en and 1.\0Hlell \vho havo JHLi'i'Cd t/Jeil' .hmic_'r. and in :'O::)lllC case'"' thcir Senior 1Jni\'f'I>itY exa1nination. and who­haYc been through the Training College, are fnlly equipped for the g!Tat work ah~ad of thl'rn. These :; oung people arc gtvrng adnmtrrgcc to the children of the rcmlOtcJ-arf'a of the State ihaL one tlrnP VYPre onh- a ya ilabl·e in the r.nd. larger centres of pupulatiou.

The l\Iinister t.rrkcs a kePn jntere::;L in the dcpartnwnt OY0r he presidf-:, and thf' GoYcrnnu•ut haYe been Yr-ry happy in their chc,icc of a SecrPtarv for Public In::::tTuction. 1-T e di:--p1a~-s a kccnnf.,~s and an ellthusiastn for educational \York that are­rc,rc in a Miniotc;· of the Crown. I fed it i' only right to pay him that tribute.

The• departnwnt. is one of \Yhich we arc extreme!,, proud. ancl I am pl0ased io see thc­c\tension of the Yorahonal v ork and fanning project:-;. Extraordinary rn·ogrcss has be()n n1adc- in t1l1Csc- two direction:;; in recent tiJnPS. The Yocational work is equipping young men and \Yornen with some u:-::cful occupation or tntde ihat thev can UHC to their ach·antag& later on. The primary edu< ation of boys and girls does not equip them with some useful trade or calling. howeYOr de·'irablcr it may he, and they are, therefore, h"·3 able to grapple with problems that confront them in later life than their fellows who have a traclo at their finger tips. \Ve are gradually expanding our methods of equipping boys ond girls with Home useful vocation. Pro­jects that haYe been undertaken at country

Supply. [28 OcToBER.] Supply. 1201

schooL, consist of \York of a very high stan~ da;·cl. lt wonld !Je an interesting· object lc'>~.-.,on to n1any of our city chYcller;:; to go to :oOlil<' of our rural schools and see the fine work that is being clone b_v the pupils. 'l'hcy Ud.:P Ull intE'l'C-.,t in the -calf club, tho fol'Cstry •sork, pig raising, and varion~ other proj~~.:::ts that are bring organised bv the Dcpartme:..~t of Public Insirucfion. Th~ knowledge these

llC'Op~c arc acquiring is C'\:tr8orJjnarily They kno;v the thc·ory aucl prartice

looking after stork and they will be far equipped in the futut·;, than their

parent, were in the paot. After alL a dairy fanner rnight have nu in:-,tinct'iYc kllo\V1Pdge of Y hat is a. goocl beast, but if asked to tell y >:l th,, why and the wherefore, he might not b(~ abln to (•xnlain the reason for his belief as fully as ,;ne 1\·oultl like. His sons and daughters arc gaining both tbcorotieal am! practical knmYledge at school and at }Jornc, and are growing up to be yery fine citizc ns. The future of this country is largely bound up iu our agriculture and our stock --our dairy and bcnf cattle, sheep, and pigs -rrml we must therefore reap the benefit of this pr"scnt training from tho work of future gcnPrations. l hope this claP-; of work will lH' enc! __ mragctl and extended by those \vho control tlH• dcpartnlC'llt. until our educational !'.PrYiccc,·, all oyer Quc'Lnsland \Yill be a source of eHn greater pride than they arc to-day.

2\Ir. :\:lcLEAJ\; (llundabcr(!) [11.5 a.m.]: I desire to thank the ::Winistcr· and officers of his department for the Yery excellent \York they haYe clone, and I join with the Loader of the Opposition in expressing the apprecia· tion of the people of Queensland, particu· larh th,, parents of children, for the very valuable "\York done hv ).Jr. J\fcl{enna as Director of Educ:ttion. ~

From the 1cport that has been submitted h.\ the deprntn1cnt for the cdiftcation of hon. tJlCtubPr,;.; of this Chan1ber. ono realises that it i~ doing ~'omc of the finest work in the Co:nmoniYcrt!th. T han• read the reports of Df~pnrtrucnt"· of Education of other States, hilt C.Jnec·mland is far in adYanco in the ideas, that ban' bec•n snbmittccl bv the 1n.::.pectors of the dcparhnont. ~

In r0]'ort of thee Director of Education a rcfcrc·ncc to the ycry important

rn<:lttc>r of fihu or vis:.J.al C'ducation. I hope thf' ).Iinif'dcr vrill tal;:o cognisnnce of the Sl !'~·e-tion b:; the Director and e'•tablish {ilm (tr Yis-nal cducutlon throughout the State. It i-: of vcr.,· great value. Those who hu,d the 1n·ivilegc of seeing the flhn illu:::tratlng the "·ork of Louis Pasteur and other films dealing 1•:ith geography, history. nature st:1d_;·, an{l ciYic•·. u11der:::.tand their groat q]uc. :VIany of the children in my clector­a,te l1ad the priYileo;e of seeing them. As the Leader of the Opposition has said. our children enjoy many educational advantages, ancl I f0cl that the parents recognise the ,·ah- of the educational facilities provided bY the department under the guidance of an cn!lmsir.stic 2\finister. I do not know of anv other pcrwn who has evidenced a greater intc'rcst than he in administering the work <'f that department.

The reports submitted by the insp,•etors are very grabfying and reveal .a keen appre­<"iation of the underlying principles of our BClucat'cnal system. I was particularly i11tPrest<ed to read this paragraph in the report submitted by J\1r. Inspector Baker-

" \Vhen all is said and done, the sub­jects and branches taught are of but

-.,c .)lH1Hry In1portancc, the factor of con·-.iclcration !Jeing the child,

to receive in full n1ca"lll'C

h:s or her birthright, the Ycry bc't cl \·c lolllllCnt-ph~, :_:ical. 1nentaL .and n~ond--of which ho or '·he i.:· capable;

in t11c inspection of a scbool, the value is apprai',cd not 'o much

b.v the urr.onnt the Jlupils know concern­a wbj1·ct or br,o.nch. lmt bv the

lc·dmi(]ue. aHcl hold the h s O\'Cl· his pupils and l>y the

hich the subject or branch n1ean;:;. of ··ecnrinQ' natural

(tnd dov~lopnH'nt-in other 1 ~Eel l1y t h~ P,L~~Jil·_.' reactions to the ~1 nnuJnQ, applied.

think that it-.; a Yer," ii11L c1eflnitio,! of the Jink h::bY•~'C'll 1tH~ facilit}r'· cdf:._~rPcl !Jv t.he llcpartnH•nt of Public lmtrnction an~l the child \Yho rP~f·i,·cs that tuitio11.

I 1-n1s truck ah:o hv a remark in the l'<'pon snlan:tted !Jy 1\Ir: In:opcctor Farrell-·

'" In n1y opinion traint.-:'-: at the college should receive some in:::.truct.ion in gencml club work. and each student 'honld also he encourag·ed to specialise iu a porticnlar branch of the work P.uch as animal keeping, poultry raising, In1lk aJld crcan1 testing, garden work, ho1ticnlturc, grasses. and foddcr.s, bee­keeping. ck. 'l'his would bP more useful to them as teachers in charge of country cchools than the study of higher mathe­matics and philosophy."

think eYcryonc will agree with that sb tc­ruent. especially hon. me1nbcra reprc cnting c·ounh·y electorate''• 1-rho have visjtcd coun~ try schools and found that teach< rs who 111ay haYe a Yery good classical knowlc·dg\._: :-:onJPt1rnc, suffe1· fro1n a d0fi.riPnc,; in rcP.pect to thl' 0s~cntial ~ubjccts rnentioncd. I belic·YP that fo~· the r-ncour~gcrnf'nt cf pro­ject clnbs it is <"entia] thrrt the t·'ach T

hi!nself honld h:n · th(' Lchnic:d kn(P,v!edge to in11Jart to th0 chiJ(1rcn. I th:s t unit~· of f:a \·iug- that. in n1~· ihc t1- adH'l':' lu1vt) an int.'rrH'<t' tl1c ~nhlect taught. the project clul.s are very ouu,o,fnL

I udu~ 11Ii:: Op]1ortnnit-v of thankin..r Th8' L\Iinistcr and the De]J~rt ;nr:nt of J)uh!1c In.-.:truction for rlwir kint11.v- con~iclrrutiC'n in making nsailable a ccrt l-in ,c:.tLn of nlonr · fOl' thn dC'\"PlopnH~nt ~t Fair·nnC'!d s~~t'o ~chool. I-!i:;: .~_\Tnr'lthet~c con~j·clc1·atio'1 }w b•ccn responsible for tlw building up of a bnshhousc thc•re eqn~l to that at any other school in the 8JrrtP. The children ore' t ·ught ho,,- to propngatc and cultiYatc t11e variou:5 hn~hhou~c plant~. The Sccretar~· for PLd:1l~c Lands rnaclo a .special yj,jt to the fchool at lll\' rrquc-~t. and thrrr l1c sa\v thEtt 1hc children Lad planJcd 40D to 500 ynnng nine tree~. whid1 durin~ the c-onrse 0£ the i)ast two Years have gro\Yll consid('l'ablv and will ~n thf~ near future prove a v~tinnb]o a'set to thl' State.

In discussi_ng. t11is Yote la,c:.t ~rear I sug­gested that smgmg classes should be included in tlw curriculun1 as a C'Oinpulsory subject. and I notice that Mr. Inspectbr Farrell mentions the subject in his report-

" S.in.,ing in small schools is very dis· appomtmg. Some teachers think that because they have only a small numbc; of pupils, the subject should be neg· lect~d. ~n most of the large schools the subject JS well taught."

i}lr. McLean.]

1202 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

had the pleasure of attend· Hall to hear the singing

Y;1nous State f-chool choirs \VCJ'U

aL~l d.elightc(1 with pedorrn-ancc. It, \Y 1 ~~ Jndccd 7:ho·,yn n vc1·y

_t ·:tllt p:1rt of o1n· 0du< ~:"·~t n{, I b 1i:.. t!Hlt it :-:;honld be a cornpu1fc,OfY

sdJOols. I have a.Lo the pleasure of -.,·isiting

School, \vhcre 1 with a great deal of intor0~·t to

approxirnatcly 200 Plll)ils ]r.·.rning to f'j)f'ak the English language correctly by the drama­tisation method, and their efforts certainly r~•flrctecl gn~at Cl'( r}it On th0ir 1(-:1cltcr. }lr. Cccil Thon11)~on. The ·,york sbould Le extended t1 <lll tllc oihPr Stat(\ ,;;;rlJo(_;L". It \ras Q'rand to hP:J.l' the enunciation of the chirdren. 111any of wltnrn \YCl'f> of tt>nd0r age. I h··!icvn that the dramatisation method of teach­ing correct English nronnnf'iation j:;; ono that eonld be PXt011dc:d with good ro':lnlt:o-:.

I do not know >Yhcther I should be in order in dealing \vith technical education on th!s. Yotc. I have had the opportunity of "l>Jbng the Bundaberg Technical College, where I hav,, obsenccl the bcnefiL of the educational grounding of the children who haYe gravi~ated from the primary schools. It !S c~.sential that chilc1rcn shoulrl be given a sound educational groundinO' and that thcv should also avail tlwmsclvc; of secondarv edl~cation where possible. Tn our grC'at edt;­cabonal system the difficultv is to cater for the• childeen after thcv lc;JH' school. The ::Ylinistcr for Education ·;n Xl'w South \\' alrs 1\ofr. Drummond, when dealing with the valu~ of -adequate facilities for technical education as a prime factor in the f'mplovmcnt of youths, t=aid- V

"Xo subject is of greater concern to all rupon.,ihle public men to-dav than the achie,-cment of sittisfnctory anZl ]lertnnncnt cn1ploymont of vouths.· ·The conb·jbution which an adc"{uate svstern of technical E~c1ucation can rnakc f~r the solution of th1."> problcrn is Jifficu1t to nver-estirnflt,. Its Yalac is ~trc~ eel hr thf' Xew Sonth \Yalc:-J f1on1n1i~sion ofJ Tcrlmicn.l Education."

'Ihe C'HAIH"i 'I.N: OrdPr! I suf(gest to thf' hon. mpmlxt' tlnrt he ddcr his remarks '?n tcch1_1icnJ edn<"ation until the Committee J>'~ cowndcnng the YOtC' for " Technical J~dncation and ,~pprcnticeship Con1mittcos."

:\Ir. :\T<"LK\X: I ,,-ill do that. :Mr. I d\ -ire to conclude rnv thal!kin:~· the ~<Iinistpr a·~d a1l

of his clc>Jartmcnt for the t}JP_I. haYC' c-:-dPnded

pa,.t t\ycJye months and I hoe. u::.crlll)('rs in C'':'prc-d.siug

rny Ycry deep regret at tlJC rctirc1ncnt of the Dir~ctor o£ Ednc .. i io~1, blr. ~lc:Kcnna, fronl l11s Ycry high offico iu the depart· n1~nt.

j\1r. T. L. WILLIAMS (Port Uurtis) [12.17 [J.m.] : I alwavs take a great deal of pride and pleasure m cliseussing the Estimates of this department, especiallv the vote under consideration, but before 'proceeding to do so,. on tlns occaswn I should like to joiu \Ylth o~h~r hon. 111en1bers in exprccsing my apprcc~atwn of the valuable services rendered to the State by the Director of Education. Mr. McKenna. He has. given unswerving ]o~·:JJry not only to the tcnchf'r~ u11der hi·; control but also to the department and the State. I am gla.d to learn that we shall

M cLean.

not entirely lose the benefit of his 1naLure knowlC'dge on oJ.ucationa l matters. Like the Leader of the Opposition, I n'gl'i.'t that cyen a sun11nary of .Nlr. l\Icl(Pnna·~ report {;f his ~·i -it O\-Prsea5 ;~a~ not included in tht> of dl'pa.r!ment subm;ttcd to rcr but I feel snrc the ; giYe .a, :ttiPfactory expllL;1ation for its rion.

that. in this vot0 i.hc amunnl pn.id 1n to high school ancl pri1nary ~ebvol tcach;:'rs is included, and al.~o thP cxpeiJditnrP on hcnne project c1uL~ a11d rural school". I .<.LlH g~ad to know that there has not bPcn a"!.n,. cul'tail:rncnt of tl1c expenditure undr1· il)is yvotc; as a 1nattcr of fact the10 is, if an:.~thing, a, ~iight in en· 1so. The fact that the demand for new schools is becoming grcatPr and greater CYL'ry year ju:;tifics an incrca:c:;c in tho Yotc.

I arr1 g-ratPful to the ::viinister and the Director of Education for the assistance they rendered throughout the year in tho matter of transfns of teachers that I brought before them, and also for their sympathetic comidcration of applications for new schools.

The high schooL; referred to arc doing excellent work throughout the State. The now high school recently established at Gladstone has been carrying out a very com­mendable work.

Vocational nnd rural schools throughout the State continue to render useful service. I am not going to work the parish pump on this vote. but there a re many rural centres where additional vocational and rural >chools might well be established. I have a T,romise from the Director of Education to "!sit por­tion of mv electorate. I mav be Jptimistic. but I feel' sure that aft,•r he 'visi',s that area he will be satisfied tha.t my request is a. reasonable one. In centres like those of the 'Cpper Burnett and .,. towns such as Mount Larcom and Miriam Vale it is desir­able that schools for Yocational training be established.

I appeal to the department to endeavour t;::> keep country ~chools open as far ns pos­sible-'. :11a.n:v small country srhoo1s arc closed owing to the falling off in the average attendance belO\Y the rnl111n1um required. T'lwr,, is very often a good reason for that fall-ing off, ~nch aj sickne;.;s or \Y0t wcnth0r. I feel sure that Dverv factor y,-il! be taken into consideration before a scbool is dosed. It is difficult to have a. school establichcd. and it is much more clifliJult to have it reovenccl once it has been closed.

Rnral :~·:::hools and project clubs conbnue to do excellent work, and the teachers \vho are in charge of the1n arc to be con1metHlcc1 for their t'xcellent efforts. Visiting cduca· tional anthorities arc loud in their praise of t.he curriculurr1 in these schon1s, of which we aro justly prouc1. 'Too rnuch Inoney and too much time cannot be spent on the~e rhases of QUI' education. I feel sure the demonstration given at the recent Kational Exhibition in Brisbane bv children who 'vero cdc tee! for the purpose from a num­ber of projc•:t clubs and rural schools thron.ghout the State provided conclusive cYidcnce this forrn of cduc-.1tion is \Yorth and is being carried oJt 1n a proi_)Cr Inanner. The teachers V•lho

for this wcrk dcst:rying consideration con1n1unity

Like hon. men;. I att('nd

in rny a f0eling

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1203

that I have lea.rnod something- and that !hi, work is worth)! of the g-roatP't support. I huvc ah• avs hPld the vit'w that "·e should do something in connection \Vith prov-iding­this instrurt1on in schools. l\lv attention ha:; ,iu::;t lwen drawn to an artic~C appearing in a Brisbane newspa]let· on 21st January, 1933. vvhcrc the Director of Education expre<::scd clearly his vic\vs regarding n1BnuaJ training of our ;ouths as against a too-close training of an acarlccmic nature. He said-

·' It is tragic to sec ;;;o 1uany boys and girls entering ~econdary schoo1s for :n acaclmnic education, and being led to a··sume that clerical positions would be found for them; there should be more C01lCL'ntration on the rnanual subjects, espc>cially those which ha ,-e a bearing on ptirnary industry."

Therdoro I am pleased that only recPntly it was found desirable to secure twelve addi­tional teachers for n1anual training purposes in om schools. I have said before, and I think other hon. members hold the same view. that a nation is not built up on the backs of offico boys and office gjrls.

I speak freely and with a certain degree of pleasure on the very fine work performed b:.- the teachers throughout the State. I wish to refer particularly to thP excellent \Vork of the teachers in charge of what are known as one-teacher schools. They are doing excellent work, in rnany cases under extreme difficulties.

.\!though I should have liked to enlarge on the rneaning of education, haYing mis;;;ccl the [(eneral v-ote, I cannot deal \vith that subject at this juncture. The inspectors' annual reports arc interesting, inforn1ative, and. I think, should be read more than they are bv the general pnbcic. These reports should be made available to them. if that is possible. Certainly they should be read bv members of Parliament more freclv than ( ~hink is the case to-day. "

EC'fore leaving the work of the school inspectors I should ltike to ask the Minister if itis attention has been drawn to an article appearing in the last issu~ of the Teachers' lJnion •· Journal" on the ::;ubiect of Uw inspection of schools. Perhaps the J\1inistc- · has read it and will be Jlroparecl to gi1·c a rcp'y to that question to the Committee. I feel sure that if he does the reply will Le uf a satisfactory nature.

1n conclusion, I aho congratulate tho Minister on his energ-y and his work during the year. I also add m)l congratulations to th<e Director of Education, and to :l\Ir. Riddell-indeed, to all the officers, from Mr. Edwanb. the Chief Inspector, right down to the lowe,t-paid officer of thP clepart­Im>nt. Th0 work of all of these officials has been excellent. \Ye have much to be proud of in the> work that is being done b:v the department, and I feel sure that in the hands of such gentlemen as those to \Vhom I haYe referred the education of the youth of this State is safe.

Mr. MAXWELL (1'n011'ong) [11.27 a.m.]: I de,n·e to offer my congratulatwns to the i\1inister and his officers for the manner in which the work of the department has been conducted. This is a department the adminis­tration of which involves the expenditure of a very great sum of money, but it is a department of which it can be said that we are getting value for our money. I am con­fident that hon. members on this side of the Committee ·do not at any time grudge

any amount of n1oney that is being spent on the ad,~ancemcnt of the rising gcllerution.

I Vl'i -h to congratulate the :Vlini>tcr upon his action in eomtoction with the school cistedclfoclau. liP has done a great deal of good work, alld I should like to quote the followil1g remarks from the report of the Chief Inspector:-

" 'I'hc svllabus of 1921 rcpn·cented a genuine a'hcmPt to improve th<:? rnusic of the schools. Stress was then laid 011

the Yaluc of iin1e-excrcise:) and ~ight­recccling. Reference was mad~ to -the futility· of n1r>re in1itation, and greater encouragement \Yas given to what the syllabus called the 'intellectual' side of the' work. bv which v·as connoted the appreciation a1ld interpretation of rnusic. The 1930 syllabus lays down a carefully graded course, which includes exercises in breathing. rhythm. voice, and ear training. The music of the school shows great improYoment in both amount and qua.lity. There has been an awakening of interest in instrumental music, ::t..nd several schools ha,·e very f1ne brass, fife. or mouth-org-an band·, Our school choirs arc capable of very fille perform­anC('S, and their 111Clnbers arc growing in povvcr of appreciation. \Vc are indebted to the Minister for the impetus he has given to the movement through his personal interest in the Schools' Eis­teddfod and in singing generally, and we are grateful to the competent musicians anlOTI~Sst the teachers for being ewr ready and willing to lend a help­ing hand to others not so well equipped as themseh·es. \V e can, too, I think. thank the radio that our young folk can he heard whi~tling or hununing- classical tunes that. without the wirelese. thev may not have had the opportunity o'f hearing.''

'l'ho>e arc sentiments with \Yhich I think we all agree. It is gratifying to see that. not­wjthstanrling the volunH' of work 0ntailod in adn1inisteri11g a rlPparhncnt of the nutgni· tndc of that oYer which the Ministe1· has control, he has found time to help those 1vho arc educating our children in 1nusic:

I ag-ree '"ith vvhai: the hon. n1ernber for Bunrl~bcrg said about tho wonrlerful per­foJ·mancc of the children's choirs and the imtrumc·ntalists at the last eisteddfod in Brif'ba:no.

Mr. KIKG: You agree with him when he is right.

Mr. l\1 \X\VELL: I believe in gJYmg credit where it is duo. As the Ler·.der of tho Country Party said this 1norning, \ve have a ycry enthusiastic l\Iini2tor, and whenever it has Lecn my priv-ilege to be acc-eciated with him I have alwav-o found that he has playPd the fpme. ·

The officers of the department are a fme body of gentlemen. I regret exceedingly­more than I can say-the departure from the department 0f a very capable officer in the person of Mr. B. J. McKenna, Director of Education. In saying that. I have no desire to detract from officers that are under him. Perhaps, having been in business~ I do things rather differently from members of the Government, and some members on our own side. The view I take of a gentleman of the capacity, ability, and integrity of the Director of Education is that he is too g0ocl a man to lose, irrespective of age-and age. after all, means experience. No man could

IJ.ir. Max1.cell.]

1204 Supply. [ ASSElVIBL Y.] Supp!J.

hold a position with hc·nom· and dignity as Mr. J\IcKcnna has done had he not been -cornpctcnt. :-.To\V vve haYo arrived at a stage, as the Leader of the COLmtry Partv said this morning-, here hP mu step do\vn. I do uot agree wiih that. It. altogether \'-.rrong,

l'~. ,·:n if r,ru the 1nan in the Corn-

C'V";·ll,

are YOU': "

voice against it, I cer­A· a

of

a.sk \\'ultld be, '' .. t>..re yott l )111pctcnt? " tho groat English jurists-a body brainy ll1Cll. One, Lord Brycc. \'Tote

grcate ·t book of the day when he was eighty y. L',r~.;; of ago. I kno1.v there are instances \Yherc n1cn \Vho have at"!Jaiucd n certain ago rnight be asked, -v-.·ith every degree of rcn,;:"-mablcness to stop do'.Yll lmt men who have not attained that age~\Yho might be Ollly twcnty.Jlve or thirty-may not posse·' the abilitv that some of the older men lmYc. I think Mr. J'dcKenna's retire· ment is going to bo a big loss to the department. I do not know whether it is true or not, but I ha Ye l'l'ad that the Director of Education is going to be retained for other purposes.

During the .dilbato on the Estimates last year. I remarked that it seemed to be peculiar for anyb0dy with \m-;inosc acumen presiding over a department like the Depart· n1cnt of Public Instruction to send a man of l\lr. l\IcKcnna's standing home to England to sec what is going on and bring back ideas whose adoption >muld be in the be;t interests of the department and for the benefit of the children, and then retire him. This is not a matter of parcy politics. It is the aim of eYcry member of this Chamber to give of the very best to Uw rising genera· tion wjthout questioning· the HlOllHV that is being to do so. We should get the best and keep them. JV1r. McKenna has been to England and returned. Is the benefit of h.is experienr·o to be lost? I do not say it will be lost, but it may be. It is hcart~brcaking for anybody to go home, kno\Yjng that his knowledge of nu~thocls of !f'clucation in other countries that are }n adYanec of 01n· PIYJJ, nP,y not bo used. Such a rnan 111ight think, "I 1nay go back and tell them what I haYe learned, only to be told, ' \Ye }m\ n so1ncbody with new-fangled ideas coming and \YO propose to givP ltinl an of putting thcu1 into p-:.'actice.' "

::\'" o \YOl'ds of 1niuo can adequately e"'{prc-;s ho\Y 1nuch I haYe appreciated the YC'r~"T ex·cel~ lent work has been clone bv Mr. l\lcKcnna in departrnrnt, and I ~,ii~ccl'ely l1opc ihat -dw dc•parttncnt or the Cabinet in their wi~clon1 \Yill find some 1ncans of retain­

go

'I'he other day I wa-; looking of our leading busine~s ages. I found that some

but thC'v have Df busine,~s, and

to v;hom or I would :\lr.

of thC'-lJl. no nse that t!w Co\ ern: lCHt'~i policy j;; 1nent bcc~aFe of tho ntHnLcr of c Jtuii~g on, and that the older the .<•r.,·ice Jllust Le pu·hed out to

rnen of

fo1· t hc1n. I h n, ,-e uf it i :-d-.:.ov1n in the

n1an ·who :-:ho\v,-,

. Maxwell.

rr1akc \vay the proof

incss \Vor1J-that sctnblancc of

1·ccognition.

Some tin1e ago I rend with varticular interest an e6'ay ca,lled " s,wked," written by Robert Blatchford, a Socialist.

Mr. T.WLO!!: Do vou bc,lieYe in the sur· vival c•f the fittest? "

:\fr. 1\-c\X\YELL: If the hon. member for Enoo·o·cra \\TL're in busines- I think ho would. The ~c on thi~ Ycry ::.a·.~1e subject,

Hlatchford is a Socialist I cvt'l'y confidencn read to

hon. · o1ne pa·:sagr-; fnnn bis essay. An anonyrnous \.Vrjtcr, a young n1an calling himself Eug(·nins. 1.v1·otc a letter io one of tlle leading London papers in which he J.id that it v:as time the elderly men were pushed out and the ymuL·er n1on ·were given control. Robcrt Dlatchforcl wrote in reply-

" The world, Engenius assures us, is goYcrncd by old men. This, he says, is bad for the .,,·orlcl, and specially for the young men.

" It has got to stop-not the world, but the senile goYernment thereof-and he, and the bhoys, are out to stop it.

" They propose to stop it in the new, young way, by means of legislation. 'There is to be a nice new Act, which will treat old men (of sixty.five) as 'infants ' ; that is to say, as infants within the law. 'They .,-ill be classified, the old dotarde of sixty.five, as persons incapable, not only of managing the wor1d, but of n1nnaging their own affairs.

"They will not bo allowed, in fact, to ha YC any affair-. 'They will be corn· pulsorily retired from business, and their protwrty will be 'administered for them ' by the smart young men.

"A rnan n1av lJe born wi~e, but he is neYer born experienced. He may be born S1Yeet, but he is not born ripe. There cornes to me, as I write, a line of a 1ninor poet : ' Those old masters who \vere strong, because they loved and suffered, autl were weak.' I connncnd that line fo Eugenius.

"Aho, Eugenius, I laugh. You n1q..y pass an Act to make us old back·num. bers 'infants within the law.' You may take our jobs and administer our affairs; hut you will only be plagiarists of the caYn rncn, and you "\vill haYe to curb your hearts of fire as they had.

''I h'll you, Eugeniu~., \Ve laugh at ~-on. You canrwt do without us. If you >Yere olclcr you would knmY it."

a crce with the entiments of Robcrt .Blatch­{ord. It ha<;;. occurred to n1e sometimes as bt;ing JTinarkablc that GovcrHnlents, having done ~ J un1ch by legislation, haYo not passctl on C'lHtctmcnt that 'vhcn a n1an rcaehc. the ago cf fifty or sixty he should b· tomnhawkod.

J\Ir. TAYLOR: You just .tid you belieycd rn that.

Mr. ~,L\X\VELL: In putti"g thom out of oxi~tcncc '( I dicl not say anything of tho kind.

the

I f.:.fL-v there are rr1cn years "of D ~c "\vho have

1noro experience~~

The CTi .\IH.MA;\1': Order! The hon. mcrnbcr has gone too great a di::tanco on this mbject already .

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1205

~.Ir. :\IAX\YELL: I wes clre.•m off the li:~c; by the hon. IllPinb0r for Ji>wggcra, ·who put \Yords inLo rny 1nouth 1 hat l c1ic1 not Gay, :1nd ctJd(dYOLtrcd to crcJii 1110 1.vith :::._nti-~J~";Jis t1trrt did nut to convey I had.

l'C'pPtt1' ::,Ir. narno \vill ahvay-: be l'L'Spcctcd.

I IYi:Jr a.bo t(1 refer L~ club.· aHcl t h0 ea lf clubs, and to the J: ten vl'11o lw.Yc been nnlCh of rhc·ir tiu10 in 1ny in thi . Ol'k. I lm\P sew·rn I cali thcre-

11rookiJclr1. Brookflcld. and Pullcn nd the ::\IinistC'r c:u1 cndon;c IllV

' Jllnncndat1on of the \Yonderful \VPrk tha-t they are doing. llon. nw1nbcrs ;,vho have nnt s0cn work of the~0 clubs can have LO n:nl of what the children are doing. _-\s cne hem. mc1nber said this Inorning, opportunities an: given to the children now-a­days that their parents did not haYe. The C\Iinistcr has told me about the great number ·nf dubs in existence, and it is great credit to the teachers that they fmd time to help the children in this •my. The childr;m are under the control of school teachers for a con~~idcrable period of their Jiyes, and the !,'OOd work of the department in this connec­tion speaks yo]umcs for the teachers and the officials.

I sincerely congratulate the clop:trtment on its efforts. but I regret th>Jt a cursed regulation is in operation that says to men of the calibre of Tvlr. TvfcKcnna. "You are no longf:r required."

The SECRETARY FOH PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Brcrner) rn.43 a.m.j: I 'ppreciate the rcmnrks that haYc been 1nade concerning the rctirctnent of ::\Jr. ::\Icl(enna. but I can assure hotL members that the Goyernmont regret it _,s mnch as anvbodv else. HowC'Yer. there are tlw regulo.t'ions,~ and :as the Government haYc been particularly careful to sec that thcv \YPl"C obscrYecl in, the crr 9 f of other pul;lic setTants who haYe boon r~tired. they muct also be observed in the ease of 1\ir. l\fcKenna, much as we may regret it. T!Jo hon. member for Toowong said that retire-

did not take place in other incluetrir '• is entirely \Vrong. Bank nHtnagcr:; retire' at sixty ~ears of age, rcgard!e": proficiency. Tlntt applies not only

to ono bank. but I belic;Ye to all banking­in~t 1tntion:::. 'rhc same practice is folln\ved in ~hillping offices and in otbcr places. But

not diecussing at the moment the \Yh-~ther the rule is a goocl one or

one-the regulation is there and it :mu~ b0 ob::-e1·vcd. I assure hon. 111Cn1bcrs again th2,t thd departrnent and the (nent regn" t. the reti rmncnt of l\1r.

ted to ?.Ir. be retained

bclimT will be YCrY comni]ntion of a n8v;

ar0 due fo1: a new syllabus, iH'Ilcr c ble to compile it Of hn will art conjunction tlw of the departm~nt. He will \York of for u e lhc nt tim8

text-books. the dcwrt­lcft to the

ncl a certain an1ount of confu-.ion hn"l OC'currcd rherdrom. \Y c believe that we can ovcrcOltlO ']wt difikulty by having uniform text-hooka

lhrouc·hout the State. 'l'his will mak<c> {ot· the C{~nvcnjcnco of the parent::. the chil<lrPn. '-lnd t!Ji\ tC'<::cher~. rrhc copyright in tltc tcxt-

y ill the of the •sill be a

tf•cl t~w pan'llts

1 sa~' 1ve regret vcr:v tnuch Hw that. lHing 1\Ir. ~Ir,l(enna. 1 s

r•t(•t' of Edu,-atioll to a clo~c . Education \Yho rcccnt1v

fro1n i he other St.ate; Cxprc'-,_,ccl reg1·ct that J\Ir. ::.\[cl{enna was o.bout

to retire. Thc:v regarded hin1 as a lcacle1' and ._--:_ dynarnic force in education not 1ncrclv ln nuP-.:ll~lancl. but throughout the ConllllOl~­wcalth. and they expressed the opinion that hls rcri1·crnent would nlCJn a distinct. lo:3s to e·ducation in Australia. \\~c ha-...-c had exrn·cfi­sions of regret frorn ~11 concerned, but I can a--sure hon. n1c1nhcrs that they arc not more heartfelt ancl not more incerc than those of the Government themselves.

Then' i' one matter that I should like to deal \\ ith bdore the debate is continued further. ,1 matter that I bdiove was men­tioned bv the hon. nwmber foe Port Curtis. who aski,d me if I had seen the report of a Mr. Cramer, an ~~merican 'vho ca.tnc to :-\ u~tralia 11nder the auspices of the Carncgie Trust to look into the inspection methods in schools in A'lstralia and New Zealand. I do not want to do that gentleman a wrong. I do not know whether the American pronun­ciation i:.::. CrarneT or Crarnmer. but after reading hie report I am inclined to believe that. it ).._ Cnnnmcr. Extract~ fron1 }lis report were published in the journal of the Teachers' Union. I have no objection to that, because the report has been made public. but I do object to the he-ading in that journal. which rends~" Queensland's insrJcctlon 1ncthods through American cyE\'1.'' l\I1·. (;rarnor. or 1\Ir. Crarruncr. dicl not particu].trly refer to Quecmlancl. but he did refer to s,•yeral States of Australia and to l\-c'\Y ~cah.nd. and hr> did sa- that in ~cveral States he had tran lied round with inspec­tors and had visited all types of e~hool in their company, Ho did not do that in Quecm­lancl. He Yisited two schools. I belioyc, Ascot and North Brisba.no intermediate schools, hut at both teachers \Yore asked if inspectors t.r<lYcllcd with 1\fr. CrarnPr, anr1 it \\·as a.:·'crtu,iuPcl that no ins11ector or in::-poctors \YOre with him on anv occasion. So :i\Ir. Cramcr did not visit s.chools in Queensland with n.n in ... pector and Bee an inspection of a school. If ho was speaking of Que>ensland. if ho mad0 his note of insp0ction yisits .in th1s State. I hnYP no hesitation in th;~t. ,,-hat he ~rt do,,-n ... P.<L'-' noi \vhat he sPell through Aml'ric.1n eyes, hut what he hetd

told h~- peopl0 Or individnn L; ~, ho arc antagonistic to the iJFpedora.te in

Q11C'Pll~land.

Oramer mentioned tha.t in ovory thcr0 \Vrv:; a. trcnlC'ndous tension \Yhen

the in.-:pcctor arriYecL anr1 that that tcn~sion was of tremendous detriment to the school. \\"o rJJ kno\Y of that t('nsion. \-Yho do0~ not know of it? \Vho has not b-en conscious of that tension on smne occas·ion ,_v}H~n ho 11 ;~ono out to bat? EYen ,,-hen vou ha Ye

out to keep nn appoinb1lcnt of n !Sort there h':'s be-en an arnount of

tension. ::\lanv of ns, I dare for ( 1e>ction :. ... ~~n1h. know

.]

1206 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Is. But it is not a destructive tension, it is a natural tension.

:\h. PLrNKETT: It may be an extension. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­

STR UCTIOX: If he was seeing how far he could get away from the truth I have no doubt he was applying that extension very definitely. To say that the schools and tea,chers are in a nervous state and most uncornfortable when an inspector js present avpea1·s to n1e to bo arrant nonsense. I have been yery interested in inspection methods durmg- the four years I have had tho honour to be connected with the depart­ment. It would be interesting to notice how much the inspection methods of my day _vary from those of to-day. If an inspec­tor Is somethll1g to be feared to-day, if he ie an ogre. if he is disturbing to the chil­dren and harasses the teacher. all I have to say is that the teachers of this State and the' children arc consummate actors or they are arrant hypocntes. Teachers over and over again have told me of the joy with whrch they welcome the inspector. It is one of my jokes with the school children to ask them the name of the inspector who insp?cts their sch~ol, and to say, " A re you afraid of Mr. Jeflries," or "Arc you afraid of Mr. Trudge on" (or whoeYer the inspector rmght be), and in m-cry case I have had the iuunodiatc response of "?\o, sir." I follow that up by asking them if the I~spector is ,~fraid ?f,them, and they imme­dJately say ·No, sir. I have never found a school where there is anv hesitanc:; about answering that question; "on the contrary, there appears to be perfect harmony with the mspector. . Then Mr, Cramer complains that the mspector gives no help whatever to the teacher. I have been with inspec:tors on occ~.sl_O~ls when th8y have been conducting exhrb1t10ns-or whatever it might be termed -of onc-tcadter schools. A sehool is selectt>d, and the teachers in the area \vho are con­ducting one-tC>aeher schools con1o to this school, r:nd a day of instruetion is giVen by the mspcctor. I was struck with the splendid way in which the inspectu 1 carried on, step by ;step, in certain subjects, par­t;cularly m h1story, geograph:v, and Eng·lish. 'l_ here was a general gradmg of the qucs­twns that 1 could sec was leading up to a defimte_ result. If_ a teacher could not grasp somethu1g from It I should sav he must be a p~rticularly dull teacher indeed. Some httle tune ago I met a body of teachers in Qu' en street, somewhere towards 6 o'clock They were engaged at a local school and :i: chided them with being a little late' on the job, and they told me the inspector finished an inspection that afternoon, and thcv had stayed behind and listened to a two-hour address b:v the inspector on methods. To sav the inspector takes no interest in the teachei· is all nonsense. I might mention also that I met a body of Ipswich teachers in Bris­bane, and I wondered what happened to the schools. They told me they had been down at the \Vindsor Infants' School having a demonstratiOn of the methods of infant teaching. I have been at Southport on a number of occasions when all the teachers from the Southern district have assembled there in conference, and they get inspectors to help them. At Townsville, Rockhampton, Toowoomba, and Ipswich-all over the State-these conferences take place. In many country centres the inspectors help the teachers in every possible way.

[Hon. F. A. Cooperr.

. Finally, JY1r. Cramor says that the inspector· mspects the teacher and not the child. I was in a di~trict sotne distance frorn Bris·· banc on one occa~ion. I ruC't the school inspector. He was bw:v at the tablr'. I saicl to hirn.- "Are J ou 1nal~ing up the re1101't~ ?'' Ile s;;ud, '' :\o, I arn allS\\L'rlng correspon~ dcncc." I said, "\Yhat corrc•spondet1CG ha Ye .vou to an;;;~,~ er·:'' l1 P showed me h·-J:J~r. fron1 teachers asking hirn for the solution o£ Tlroblerns and difhculties tl1at thc~;T were mcetlf!g ·with teaching. liP was attcnJlng to a pile of Kuch correspondctlCf\ showing that lw had the confidence of the teachers in his di~trict, and \vas helping thern in every ''ay that \Yas po~siblc. I lHlYC ask0d hi~­brother inspectors if thev have had similar experiences, and thev told me "Yes." I \HlS interested in an V assistant tear her, an cl I asked the inspector of the district how rhat assistant was getting on. He said to~ me, H I think he is doing very wen now. At any rate, he is not giving me bO n1any " problems to solv0, as he did some time· ago," showing that the t0acher has a frienc: in the inspector to whom he can turn when he is in difficulty concerning his work.

Another teacher told me that the inspcdut~ in his district had the name of every child in his schooL and the name of ever~ child in m-cry small school in the area, a;;d that not only did be have the name of the child. but he had alw a record of the proficicnc.i of the child. an estimate of the child's native, abilit:v, the handicaps from which a child n1ight suffer. f1Uch as bad attendances, long distances to go to school. and particular work at hon1c. I-J c had al1 these things in connection \\'ith every f'hild in E'Yerv srnaU school in his Llistrict: I wondered hon· he got on in the b;g school. and thf· firs .. ti t1lC· I was in a big school in that district 1 aokcd a teacher if the inspector had th0 wtme of each of the 700 children in that school. H L'

said, H Q 11. no, but we b::tve to glve hin1 a report on ever1· class. the capabilities of the c1ao:.~. tho particnlar C'haractcristic;-:; of a pa.rticular child, and information a' t<> whethPr the-rf' was anv child who had defmi~ e­ob~tarl<'~ that wou1d 'be a hindrance in tlw: examination~." Thcv had to supplv that inforrnation so that tho inspector eou1d :-,un1 up eotTP:-·t1y CYPl'Y cla::;-o:; and n1akc a11owanC''S for an~·thing that nr1ght not be considered right.

1 thought that it would be right for me to make thc'e statements in answer to this report by J\Ir. Cramcr. Mr. Cramer is thP super"isor of a few schools in a corner of thn 3tatc of Oregon, in the United State' of America. and i·his is the note to me from the Director of Education-

" Taking all the circumstances inta, consid0ration. he oug-ht not to be com-­petent to express an qpinion on the rela­tive methods of inspection and teachin ''; ador1te-d in this State."

All the Directors of Education in Australi:r met in Brisbane a week or two ago. Thoo.e· inspectors have an intimate knowled~o of the partic_u1ar \York in rural schoo1s, pritnary schools, mfants' schools, and the various colleges throughout the Commonwealth. They carried this resolution concerning Mr. Cran1cr' s report~

" The Directors' Conference has given' consideration to the Australian Council for _EducatiPnal Research Report, 'Aus­trahan Schools through American Eyes." by J. F. Cramer-and is of the opinion

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1207

tbt-rcin conbtincJ on . r:_nd upon tht•lr rcla,­In;:;pcctor~. arui on the HlC'thod~ traiion arc ill-founded ar1cl

~ n-lH•~o;: ' ?-Ild ykr•l)r ~o create a f~Jse J!L!Jkt~~,QL lll 1 :8 llllncl.:; of l'P_•_CCi':-'

unacquainted with the true position. . "It j, felt that the Jmblica-

hon c;f rc·poris, tnanife~L1}; ba'>Pd upoE the slPndcrcst a11d rno·.t unreliable ·lata. is liable to giY<' a definiklv on·onc­oas r)]durc of .:.\u::;tralja,n Pducr1iioll and should. thcn~forc, be discouraP'f'cl.'', ~

l)irL·tor:; of Educ2tion nrc not o likelY to carry a Ycry strong rcsolutjon of that nfttul'l' ;n1l.ess they .have good r('a~on for it. I lJPhCYE', notw1th~U1ncling tht> report n1adc hv :\I_r. Crp .. n1c _. D. 11Ll rtot.w i lh~ta ndi11g llw lnoSt uusleachng heading '"Quecn:;;bnd in:'lpcction methods" put on extracts of that report in 1hc tc'"~chers' "Journal," that \Ye have in the 1;1spectors of _our State scl1oolM n1en who arc zwmg splendrd work in imprO\·ing school rnet~ods, and in testing, adjudging, and /wlpmg forward the education of <he people of the State.

:\fr. TAYLOR (Eno[J{ft /'(l) [11.58 a.m.]: I \\IS~. to congr<:tulnte the T)q)arttnellt of Public Instruction on the vPry fine work that has been performed in the cducatiem of the youth of the State. I de,irP, also. to <:~mgratulat<' the retiring Director of EduPa­twn,. :Wr. :YlcKenna, upon the very excellent s~rncc he has rendered to the State during hB occupancy of that office. There comes a tim: in the. life of oyory man ,vhrn, of n_ecess1ty, h:' g-1vcs ·way to th0 rising genera­!10ll. Mr. lVIcK:l~r~na ha_s reached that. stage. but he has, dunng hr, term as director. nnparted to the officers 0f his department th<: bcn~fits of hrs knowledge am! experience gamed. m the many ;cars he has spent in the educational S(~rriC'e of the State.

I listened with interest to the Leader of t~e Opposition, who painted a beautiful prcture of this "f0rtilc productiYe State" th<>t grew oycrything but children. Ho deplored th~ fact that we wore not rrrowin~ childrrn like we are growing l;"erbage~ flowers: \Yh_eat, and other things. He indi­co,tcd m h1s speech that he desired to see a greater population in tho State. but he lJCg]ectC'd to show any desire to jntroduc-~ some chcmo that would mter for that rrreator yJO·p_ulation. 'The possibility i~ that ~vc, as a Go-rcrnlnent. nnd th1s Con1n1ittee should giYe son1e consideration to the question of en1ploying youths, .and thereby encourage the mothers of thrs country to do their job in bearing larg-er nEillbers of children t~an at present. The Leader of the Opposi­tlon <leplorcs hirth controL Birth control "ill rrobably breed n more scientific and better race of human beings~-

Tlw CEL\IH' A"\: Orc1ct·:

The mf'rn i; YCtt~.

]]]

. than r:nv n10thod the procr0ation of

0rdPr! The hon. his flttt'ntion to the

)lL TA YLOR: I am dealing with the quc~,hou of }Onths and tl1eir education.

: This 1viih nothjug sub-

am Yery sorn- that the i;; not to be~ Jic~cusscd

'\l~en ~ll education yute is LL'ing rnt. through tJJI- Charnb J'.

Tht• C'H \Ill:;! A>:: order v~1 t ltc Chief iJot iu order ilO\':,

Ir nra v O£fic_' ~

l!J

it lS

2VJr. TA YLnrt: Stntc <·hool.s ar;' a l;~rge L·cror in tl1e educat-ion of "0l~1th. l L;;~InbC'r ~llOulcl di~enss the nHtti{'r of ('clu­catiOll llHll't' ;-;vrio:L·,h- than it has f'lnc -~

rrdYl nt. into it. Tho tinH' hns arri_y;;t{

1 \','P :-_hould collsider the nun1ber oL

.Jo,y., a11d g1 rl- \Yho le.,Yt; :;chool the' <:g'<-' o.f fonrtC'l'll <1lld (lO not ~l!C ·( nd gd·t;ng f'

1lnplo.-·nH'llt. O.:ly about 50 P··r cu1t. Df

tnen1 nrc PlnployPd to-da.y; the otJ1cr DO l:Pr c0nt.- a U' dere-lict J 0;1 HH' .--.;trearn of llf<'. It " a problem to b0 eoherl in State ;.;chool 0dnratiou.

The raising of school to sixteen years n1ight bC' {·on·:-ldcred by UoYernment-it has lwon probed by greater minds than rnine. Further education on either prirnarv or s,econdary lines, as rnay be necec::~arv~. should be a. subject for serious thought. If the school age 'l.Yas raised to sixteen vcars thoro would be 110 infant labour. and at six­tpcn years of n,gc a youth is a far more effi­cil•nt unit in societv than at fourteen Thr­rnajorlty of iho.-;e ~ IYho leave the p~·i1nar~ s~hools ~very yoar~having failed to ,vill scholarohrps, or haYing been compelled to do . so bccctme of the fmancial Jlosiiion of therr parents-are unable to take a secondarv oclncation in the technica.l col!eacs or high ~d~oo1s of tl:P State. If the lcav1ng age was raised to sixteen year:-::, and the last two yrars "\YPl'C rlt1 voted to n1anual or domestic sci_en~e ~ trainjng and teaching of the prirnary pnnclJlles of land settlement. we should ha':o a youth popubtion that would be able to nwct the needs of modern sociPt.. In this 1uorning's pap0r appears a statcnlent bv the Premier about the need for settiirw" our ~-ouths on the land. The l're.mior'sn plrtn IS a good mw. but the CJl!Ostion of rrettinrr th,• youth into a condition to settle ";,n th~ l~nd is or~ that rnust be very seriou.o;ly con­.srdProd. 1 he only way to do that is to give hin1 two year~' extra educ::~tio.::.!. in rural ~r prirnary .P.tu:-1.1its. That "\Yonld take away 1l'OHl the c1t1cs 111 the fuinre a grc.1t Illany of younger people, \vho do not now

to go on the land bocu.u:--::e thcv have no rudin1cntury cdncatioll in th~~ prill-

. of rural 1:. ork. and arc required by thea· parents to jobs .in the citic's. 'I'hc,,c facts should re{ vc-rv .serious ccnsidcra-tion by n1e1nbcrs of Parl1mncnt generally.

:\Ir. Ernv\HDS interjected. :\Ir. TAYLOR: The hon. momher for

· -ould Hot ndYocatc the rai:::inO' of tho age to sixteen. bccau-;c on .a f~n·n1 the vvhole fan1ily, illcluding tho:-il' frorn RC'V('D

to. fourteen :car.:-; of age, arc \'.'anicd -, u nnlk the cow~. The-- have to get education rl:'i "\Yrll. SnrC'h' "\YD l!se ln an age ·when '\',, ~hould not v,rid1 to cxplolt in order to bring our l)]'irnan­ccrtain 11oint! · · rooe above the "Children. aud givin~ ihc1n an for life. . Tho qurst.ion of raising thr ~:chool ago F· bound up very serious! v with future of the youth of the count'ry, is the need that thf'ir· education in ,t two years of their schooling shall be such as will fit them for life's work. \Yo c'muot make

lrlr. Taylor.]

1208 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

ull the childl'l'tl tricin11s. rnotor chcrni'l'. but ~y.-tcn1 that countrv on of 111o~leru Ld u.s then uf of to .sixtf'('ll o(nd·; of trial th\;: solutiou of one of the frontl11g the State.

j,lr, FOLEY (.Yormunbp) [12.9 p.m.]: d< oire to join with oihor hon. members in offering n. ' ord of pral~e and cncouragernent to tho oificiuls of tbr~ J)cpartrncnt of Pub1ic In:'·t:tuction. It is quile true. as rnany have rcnEukcd during the diacu~sion on this vote, that mon like :Hr. McKcnna, J',Ir. Edwards, Mr. Riddell, and other important offic,rs of the de)lartmcnt do a great work for the voulh of the State. I clo not think that ~n=· one mind is responsible for laying clown the systenl that is adopted; conclusions are arrived at, I take it, in confere1Hv~ frout tinw to tirnc. rrhc lDC'll and women ·wbo haYo the hard i01l of applying the syotem in a pr;:ctit-al Iuanncr, and endcaYouring t,n make the children of the State aboorb as rnnch kno;,vkdge as po,.;..sible. aLso dcserYc praise and en~ouragcu1ent for the "\\Tork that tlwy do \Vith SUCh SUCCCS3. in ;:<OlllC IJiJ 8"

nncler very difficult conditions.

A matter on \Yhich there appears to be a considerable difference of opinion, judging­by corrc"'pondcnce in the Press, is after· school or home work that the children are required to do. In my own family it does not appear to impose any extra burdcu on the ,YOunger children, ln~t the amonnt of after-school work that the older children have to clo after tea, particularly when they reach the higher classes, is considerable. One must also haYc regard to the rli~tanco at which the children li \'e from the 'cl!ool thcv attend. In some cases it is nc·;cssu,r\· for· thern to rise in the n1orning bctwce~l half-past fi,·e aml six o'clock if the,. are to attcml to all their duties properh: and arrive at school in time, ancl it is w'cll on t0 half-past fiye in the afternoon when they ar~·ive ho:ne again. That is .a Yery long siuft for any child. It is a subject that should receive the ful:est consideration bv Yir. l'dcKerma., l'v1r. Eclwarde, and othe.r officers of the department.

\Yhat arc the cffl•cts oi after·school \York, especially on girls in higher rla~sc;;;? _L\t that age eycry care rnust be taken to see that their cclucational duties arc not respon­sible for laying tho foundation of ncno.,s disorders later in life. I am not competcnL to express an opinion whether the prcsl'!lt amoLtnt of after.school work will haYc this effect, but I cldiberatel_v raise tho subj cct m tlns Chamber to obtam an m.:preSBion of opinion from the department and to know whl'thcr· the subject is being investigated. It is a matter to which the department should not only give tho fu'lost consideration; it should also co-operate with the medical pro· fession to ascertain whether the present amount of after-school work will have an injurious effect upon children later on. There are some children who are very quick at learning, and the amount of after­school work may have little detrimental

[.1l1r. Taylor.

pffect upoll tLc:r hc1ldJ. but thl'l'C' arc other childl'C'll "\dlO HHJ.~,' lw l'eganiccl a~ ploddl'ff\. IYbo HHP.T haYr to deYott~ considern.blv rnoro tinH' 10 ·tht~ ~aHH' atno1n1t of ~ludv. ·Thcn'­L)rc. tl1r:y rnn::-:~ rt'main nv,nkc lOngL'r into the n't,~·ht to cope• witl1 their 1vork.

rr·ltCl'(' is Hll01hcr fL.;pCC't of the Illattf'l' tbat I dwuld like to lllC'ntion. 1\Iany ]Jcopll' who;J ob-,et·,:e that tt child ha:' a natural glft for lltusic cnc1ea.veur to giYP it a souud ntu::.,ical tra.ining, antl \Yhilst \YC bo1icvf that a gift in that or am ot!Jer direction should )HJ

cnconra.gcd, nc~·~:rth:?l('SS the \-olumc of aftPr­school '"ork uHty n1akc it exceedingly diffi­cult for that child to devote cnonlih t!n1c to its training in music, either chlring or after school. I drould like some infonrmtion on that point, too.

Both tlwsc subject'· arc inoxtricab'v bcmncl up with the subject of the schooi.leaving age. If the arnount of hon1c \York is exces­sive, then perhaps the difficulty could be solver! by extending the age of leaYing school so that the education of the chiid mav bC' ~prcad o\-cr a longoe pPriod. The ,,.-jS­dorn of cxtt'ncling the age \Ya~ first raif'rcl 1H~cause of tlw difhcnltics encouutPn'd in !,lacing children in employment after they finished their <•ducation.

There is also the question of rnral school" to be coneidered. I wish to bring under the· notice of the l\Iini:'tcr that the fanner..:; in the Callide Valley area are urging the establishmnlt of a rural school in the Biloeh distrirt.. That district is in the clovelop mental stage, and in the not far distant future it will b0 ono of the most important agricultural districts in the State. \Vhen a petition j~ 1oc1:.ter1 with the dcpartrn0nt £01· the establishment of that rural school. I .sinrerc]y hope the !\lini~ter will giyc- i.t ~y1npathetic consideration.

Tioc<•nt.ly. the Government made it pos­sible for the Director of Education. :\T r. :\TcKcnna. and the C'hicf In-;pu:tor. :\Ir. Edwanl'i, to Yisit m·m·scas countries for the purpo:o:e of ~tudying the educational sysh'rJ~5-opcrating there. ,, ... o have read renHlrk~ in the Prcs'i that were made bv the Director­of E,duc-ation in reg'lrd to his expr:J·ienccs and con1pnrit-<ons he has ch·awn between our system and tlu~ systcn1s in operation in the· countries lw visit.c•d. I should like' to know from the }finisrer if any importalJt have taken phce in ol].r educational as a re,ult of these im·estigations. . After making the fullest possible inqui,·ies 1 n regard to the svstern of cdvcation in our State ~choo1:-::. I bClie,-c that sorne attention .--hould h0 given to t1le qne~tion 0£ gi,-ing: our chik1rf'n some iclca of thf' opcratiot'r of the social systen1 nndor \Yhich IV£' JiYC', which \Yould a Aist then1 1atcr on in tbo battle of life>. Notwithstanding the amount \Ve spend on edu{'ation we haYc the spPrtade­of a great nu1nbcr of our cbildren finding it impossible to secure placce in indcntry after they leave school. After all their education, they are cast back upon. th<'ir parents, relatives, or friends to provide them with the necessaries of life.

l\1r. l'v1AHER: l'vlanv of those who do stndv ~he aystem to-clay "rmd try to understand It, are those who abqse it.

Mr. FOLEY : I do not think so. There i.s too 1ittl0 understanding by the peop!e· of the socictv thev have to liYe under. As a result, 'their- elected representatives do not go as far as they would if they had behind them an intelligent people·

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Suppty. 12()9

'knowing what they tain changes should

not

n~ 1 h~·r nri.::c.

want0L1. .tucl ho1v cer­be brout:,}Jt about. I

tllat any particul.lr 1n chi1drC'1, hut

cconornic~

and "~c:nl ;;at·nrl'. .:do~~z the e lines that-~ our l_)ircctrr 0f drafting

':et·~.- litt11' i~ bPing douc'

: ug"'e~tf'd. ·

I do not cla-int i~~ capabl~

thl' JinP,s l have l'fYjcc;..; of a

aJH!

Hll(](

to ·would have io dnlft, ornP-

~;o that t'ne children .able to f." a in a clear

on in Qn<

VYorkcr::;' Edw :ltional anJ it i.c; dcing very ~iood 1vork

:iu t}w int "'c-:;tr of th,! pt~up1 ~\fr. 1folc -I' orih. the Dire, tor of Tutori ~~1 Cl a:: ,Qs, con-nr·dc•d that a~ :;oci~.tion, \Yonld be ca.p-

of n ~t utlcil cla~;s and t0arhin!:; Tt ind.-~L;·inl !Ji~ l inter-natiuu-1 ..__{f;lirs. "\Yould be n blc io tlH~

think along rir;ht Th1'3 n1ath'r of

an urgent c!Jal"~lt-tc::~. in YJ<'iV of the that IYC nre liviug in a h1nc ,Then <!YL'Dt

OCLUl' \·pr~.' rapidl~'· Change., in n1 tl1odo; of

production aro taking place tbrtt aiL:ct the Jluinb::•r.., of people employed in inclustl'y, nnd \Ye nrc f<1st i:VrJroaPhing tlte pojnt -..vhcn dcfJiiitc in the ·8Cial _y·(C"l will hav(~ to

I place r11y suggestions bc•fo:·e iLc Conl­mittec in tho hope that l :::hcdl get an exrn·c ·..::ion of opinion cvncerniug 1 hc·rn fl·orn the :,lini,icr.

:Hr. DEc\CO:\" (C1 nniw1/wm) [12.23 p.m.]: Thi• io a yerv importaut Yotc. I join with hon. rncrnbcrS in expressing regret at the rctirPinent of 1\Ir. l\lciCcnna. ::.11·. ::\lci(cnlla has Lr~en n great n1an in 1 hu position he occupied. .H c was not only t~ffiei!·:n bnt he also dcsiLd to do his utmo5t for the Slate. So1nctirnes (;oYcrnnlcnt ofEc_'l':' clo not dcsiro to do their utlnost, anti son1ctin1cs n1cn1bcrs of Parlimnent--

?.fr. PoWER: Are you ~P('aki11g· for your~ self?

J\Tr. DEACO~: I am speaking· for the rr1ernbcrs on tho opposite si<.lo.

The Dqnrtmcnt of P11bli' Instruction is efficient one, ;;:o fn.r as Governn1cnt will allow. The officer.s of that

do their utmo.4 for th,-. State, they arc ha.mperecl. They

at the presc~nt tirnc in rno..ny arc harnpercd bPcau~t""~ of the

rnoncy to pro\~iclc cf'ficiont cdur n.­the children of tiw State.

'I'here arc in Qu, r_.n~land n1any Sinall centres beyond the reach of ordinary sd:oo1~. bni -.,--hi eh need H lloob and cannot get them. I can qnoto one instance in my own electorate. A deputation waited on the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock concern­ing this matter, and he referred the ques­tion to the Secretary for Public Instruction. The following letter was written to tho

Secrctarv for Agri< ulture and Stock by the SecrNary for Public Instruction :-

·' \\'ith reference to the deputation which Yvas introducf'cl to vou bv :I\Ir. \V. A. Deacon, i\I.L.A., at Milrnerran re-cendy, seeking the reopcnjng of the school at Mount ErnJ~~n, I desire to inform vou that considcra.tion has been givc'n tllis Inatter, bnt I rc~-rct to ~ay that the prospecti,~e enrolment of pupils. narncly. sixt('0n (16) is not sufficie>ut to \Yarraut act1on being taken by tJ1o

t;, reopen the school at

is like rna.IJ)T others in Queens~ \YC'l'C 2ixtcL':n ehilc1rcn attend~

there'. but the 'chool was closed Lccrru;o it \Yas the policy

G O\~Cn1n1cut to closr auv scl1ool at the nxcrage attendance V\.:as below a num Lc'r. I do not blame the officers dcpartnwut for this. I realise that

they arc not allo,~-c:J go beloy;.- a stated figure. TlJC'l'C is a of the Govcrnlnt~nt that these small must be c~oscd hen tho average aitond ·llCf' fall- bclo\v a, cer­tain number.

Tl;c Sr,X'RETAHY roR. AGRH rLT('RE AXD

It was a rule initiated hy the ~\Iooro rncnt.

\r.. T)EACOX: It b·eforo tiinc b\' a Hon. of~ thio, rC"tll.--" th ,t ~ 0 f- arc under an ('dtll •tP our children in tho country c8ntr,_s, \Vhat is thr~ ftOod of n king anyhody to go on the land if \YP cannot give ednration to t-h(•ir children? This district jq handicapped m that people will not settle there eO !ong a~ 1:o ~'hool ~s pro..-:dr-d for r!w edncatlon of th<,ir children. There arc many districts in a ~irnilnr po3ition. Surely Quce11~b nd can a 'ford to giYe its people education? Surely when v; c .ask people to go out into tho~e districts \YC should be able to cay that thmr children will be able to go to schoo'? These schools ought to be prm,ided. :l\[y elec­torate is not suffering any more than the eh c"orates of any other country member. .\ll small countrv centres are handicapprocl by the policy of the Government of rc~nsin!l" to provide a school where the average attend­ance is bo]ow a certain nurr1ber.

Jl,h. \VALSH: \Vhat number did YOU say? :\fr. DEACON: Si,:decn was the number

of the children in the district who could attend the school. This is not a pan,,~ political matter. If Queensland is to pro­gress \YO must provide education fo_r the children in the country districts. It Is our fault and not the fault of the department.

At 12.30 p.m., sir. O'KnFE (Cairns), ono of the panel of

Temporary Chairrr1en, relieved the Chair1nan in tho chair.

J\Ir. Poyv-ER: Schools are closed on the 1·ecorrnncndations of officers 0£ the depart­Incnt.

Mr. DK.l.CO?-;: They arc not closed on the r~commcndations of the officers of the dopartrncnt. It is a Inat.ter for the- Treasurer, who cnrtaih the Estimates, and he is ruled bv the GoYernment. The blame cannot be p~1t on the officers of the department. I know that they all think, and every decent man thinks, that there shonld Le means of giYin:; education to these children.

Mr. KING: Are there any other schools with less than sixtern children?

Mr. Deacon.]

1210 Supply. [ ASSE~~IBL Y.] Supply.

l\Ir. DEACOX: There are plenty of them. Mr. KANE: \Vhy are they penalising the

sehoob in your district?

Mr. DEACON: The Labour Party go against the country districts. I arn not speaking from a party political point of view at all. It does not matter what Govern· n1cnt u.re in po\ver, these children must be givPn an eclttcation and the Govornrnent should do it.

iVIr. Du;o;sTAX : Your Government closed the same schools on the same attendances.

:\1r. DEACON: Very probably. It was initiated before our tinH~, and ''/as continurd, but it should net have been done. I am not a~king for a part:'\' con~idC'ration of this question. It is Queensland's duty to give the education. The correspondence systorn, within its lirnlt~, is a very good one, and it givf~s cdncati0n \Yherc the parents arc capable and have the time, but in many case·•. the parents ha Ye not got the time. Thev have to live-that is their first con· sidei·ation-and to live they have got to work. They arc 11ot able to spare the ti1ne. I oinceroly' hope that this will be the last veal' jn which \Ve ;:;hall haYc to raisp this qlH~~tion, and svhcther this Governrncnt or any other arc in p0\vcr, \Ye tru~t greater f~tcilitic:, will bo given for the education of the children in the countrv districts. The officers do their verv best, with the corre· spondcnce> system, and it is very well carried out, but on the average it is not as good and does not give as good results as the school system. Getting the children together in a school is one of the things that help them.

Mr. KING: Hear, hear!

:\Ir. DEACON: Having them always at homo is not as good as having them together in a school. They have companionship there, and on the average they have a chance of getting a better education than in any other way. I am not going to speak against tll.e vote. I know there are limitations to the powers of the officers dealing with the finan­ci~tl side of the department.

I wish to thank the officers of the depart­ment £01· their conrtosv and consideration and for doing their utm'Ost to meet our diffi. cultics. \Ve havo rottson to be proud of th<'ir work for our young people. \Vhocver succ·ocds Mr. 1\lcKonna will certainly hav<•~-

:\lr. BR.\ND: A hard row to hoe.

~\lr. DEACON: It is it hard row to hoc for any man. I hope that whoever succeeds Mr. :vicKenna will have the full support of the UoYt~rl'lment. and \viH be as successful as Mr. i-1cKcnn·a has been.

:\Ir. WALSH (J.firani) [12.36 p.rn.]: It n1u~t be very plea~ing for J:\Ir. lVfcT\::cnna to find hen. members on both sideJ of this Cha.rnbcr appreciative of the very good work that he has clone. The cxp8eience that he gained in the outback portions of the State \Yas very uspfnl to hirn, and I direct the attention of hon. members spcciallv to that point, because there is a tendency on the part of many teachers to endeavour to get to the more central schools as quicklv as po~sib1P. The experience gained in~ the oucer parts of the State has enabled :\h. :dcKcnna to develop a policy that has l>,..,~~n of benefit to the v:holc of the children of Quccn.Jand. It is some satisfaction to hen.

f Jlr. Deacon.

rnmnbers to find that it is the- intPntion _pf the GovcTDnlent to retain his services in some way. No doubt he will be able to per­form a usefnl service for the State in the years to cume.

Generally speaking. hon. n1en1Lers regard this vote as a non-party subject, but l con­tend that GoYenunont poli-cy entc•rs very largely inio tht' educational aclivitics of a State. \Yo can only achie··o the rc,ults that ha, \~c been achie\'Cd by the cs:pPnditurc of a great a1uou11t of rnoney. The h()n. n1mnber for Cnnninglunn, 'xho has just rc;:;uu1ed his seat, has s~tid that the Treasurer of the day virtually dictated educational policy by pruninz thn e:q1cncliture of tho department. 1 suggest that the hon. member look up the expenditure l1uriug tho perjod 'vhen his GoYcrnrncnt '"ere in po\n'r. lie will find that expenditure on buildings and salaries was considerably bc1c1\V that of the yearz since 1932.

:Mr. J'i'Dl~lO: ·were condition-; just the sa rue?

Mr. WALSH: If the hon. member studied table " A " of the report of the Secretary for Public Instruction he would gain much informtttion from it. I should like to point out one or t'vo items that have come to my notice. On going back to the period when the Labour Go,-ommont first took office in thi,; State, I find that in 1916 there were 4,017 teachers and the expenditure by way of salaric,:, and allovvances, e-tc., was­£484.500. Those who arc saying to-day that the Gon:munent have done verv little for the public service should note these figures and see what the Labour Government have done in increasing the ;yages of the teachers. I take the year 1928 fo,- a comparison, because from 1929 onwards the table includes expen­diture on high schools, rural schools, and intermediate schools. In 1929 there were 4,239 teachers-an increase of approximately 220 -and the amount of salaries and allowances is shown to have been £1,194,299.

In twelve years the salaries and allow­ances increased from £484,500 to £1,194,299, a clear indication that the Labour Govern­ment endca.voured to encourage the employ· ment of the best class of teacher bv increas­ing their wages and improving thCir work­ing conditions.

Let us examine the matter froiH <mother angle. I agree with the hon. men1bcr for Cunningham thrr~ certain phases of our educational policy may very well be wviewed, but it is all very well for him to mako rernarks thut arc not justified by tho record of his o1vn Government. I should liko to bring- unclc1· the notice of hon. nlem­hers the fact that during one year they \,ere in nowcr-I refer to 1931-an amount of £42,17.7 was spent on buildiPgs, furnish­ing. and repairs, and that dur]ng the last year mentione·d in this table-1935-tho expenditure for a similm· purpose h~cl increased to £345.995. Is it not obvious from those figures· that the present Goqern­mcnt are doing something to extc~1d educa­tional facilities, p«rticularly to the outLack parts of the State?

Although they have done much in that direction I still feel that certain phases of the educational system may be review•od with advantage to the State generally. i'vluch has be( 1 said, especially ·during recent times, about the wis·dom of encouraging people to go on the land, but one of the best ways

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.) Supply. 12ll

of doing the1t is by making educational facili­ties available to new settlers. There is nothing moro tragic than for settlers to take their fmnilies on to virgin countrv~ onlv to find tlutt thev arc not within a ;·eason'able cJi,;tance of a primary school. I readily odrnit that oplendid work has been done by the (Ql_Te~Dondenc<• cln·;.,~cJ, lmt it ,hould br rf'nlcruberCd that a settler, particularly ono f•ngaged in the dairying industr~'. is not in a position to pa:c much atteution to Hat pln~0 education. I should like to irnprl·~-'

:;)lfinistcr the need for eJucational certain districts that haYc

brought under his notice. The pupils ma~· not ~e big, but I

think that dcpurtrnent n1ight '~,".'Cll decide c0t to enforce the r<'gulation in tllis respect, ,·~pcciaJly wl1c:n parf'nts are pn'p -,red to help rlJf' d0partn1cnt in the orcetion of a school builrling. I refer particularly now to Dal·

Hr·ight. ami O'Connell Ri1·cr. the of schools may bo

1n ar<:as on thB gronnds ro:ettl('nlent is going back and that there no proSlH~··t-, of further -develop1ncnt. in immediate futuro, and the number of

is ~Inall, I feel that in entirely HC' arc-a ! vvherc cxJ,pnsiv~ development is likely io take place. the clcprrrtn1ent :;:hould accept i ls share of the responsibility of (•nrouraging land settl~rncmt by proYiding ~·,Jnc .1tionaf fncilltirB for the children as .rniddy as possible. \Vo cannot expect people to settle in the backblocks of the St ttc ''"irh thPir farniliPs if thf'ir children do not have adoCJuate facilities to get the education that will enable thorn to fight the htt!r s of life later on.

It must have been pleasing to the depart· mcnt to note the favourable comment bv ;\] r. l\'IcCrao. Director of Edncr1tion in Vie. torla, concerning our rural .5chools. During his recent vioit to Marburg, he said that the 0ducational work that was being clone in the rural schools there was equal to any. thing of its kind in an:v part of the world. 'The department is to be congratulated on th_: cducrttional work that it is carrying out in the rnral schools throur;,hout the State. I honP that it ,,.ill be continncd. and that it will b< extc•ndcd to the far northern parts of the State. o;o that the children thnc mav also b<? CCJUippcd with a knowledge that wiil benefit them in after life.

'Thf' lJoli· y of the GoYernn1('nt .[u~ncra 1 1v iJ.rL" h0~n tO o'\:tcnd Pduca_t,ional fae1l~hn~, nnd that h'ts been done in mc1Ev \Va..-:::. inclnc1-

th0 making of scholarship allowancr•s thC' purchns of rcquisit0s. The

i,;:stw of ,o.;ehool wa;;: clin1inat :d b.v the 1.1oorc GoYernn10nt! hnt they .axe being- Hlpplic:>d again no'>\'.

I wi·'h to pay a trilc· tc to the good work of th(' rl0p.1rtm'cnt in rf'!~rard io rural -:.:cf-,ools in the Sarina arNL. 1 1n.kc this opportnnity of t:~nrlerinO' to the department and the :\Iini~tc--r ·':'1 thanks of ; :hool comrr1ittee tJnd the of who appreciate the ;:ootl 1vork of the' d('partn1ent.

::\Ir. \Y.\TEI1S (/{( !· i' Gror1) [12.<1-7 p.n1.]: I -.,vi::h to ruakC' a. fo\Y ob20r~.-ations o.::1 Inni' er~ afft•ct·;ng State ~chool children, par­ticnlarlv in relaLon to tht age at which infant,;· attend school. At the present time, although tho cornpul,:)r:v school uo-c' is six vr~ar~. most schooL.:, ·will takt: cln1clrcn of 1Jve ~~tars of .ugc'. Chilrlrc11 of thjs age are :r;·quired, a lmo:.;t ov,..:rnight, to snbn1it to

::"ll0n1 di~cipl inc and 0xan1ination te~ts. TLis is not conduclvc to their wellbc·ing. I hold that the nurnbpr of hour, those infants arc rcCJuircd to attend school dur· ing the da:- is too great. There is not n1nch diff·n'm" between the hours of school at.tondanrc for children of twe-lve or four­tN'll years of age and for those of ii-n~ OI'

six. I l!ndol'stand the cknartnwr:t 1ntr-nd~ to introduce a new svllabus. I trust that the derarbn£~nt will sec the wisdorn of ad()ptingL the kjrH1C'q;arLPn lD('thod < hildr. n of lh'' j cnd0r of five and

P:\t

fl~l.XI' 111C'll

work i:nportant child to n bsnl"h k110Wlcd.gc~ j,;;; V1'l'V ]ar;-:c;e]:~; conditioned on i"e physical wellbeing. The practice iP kincl rten,~ i~ to rertuire th:~ child 1-o l'(''>C for l1a1f an honr to D.ll houl' dnrin~_: tlw tin10 1t is in nt 11le iu.-.titution. I think ,(' !"cho0l n!tf'ndalH'' lJUl"t hrrvc n .ddc·tc·liou::; pfTf·'t 1mon tlw he;dth of the avcra;.;c child of ~l;ch t··r~c1Pl' yc>ur, I have d{scu' ·eel this n1atteT \\'ii.h ~<·ver 1 doctor~ in tl1c rnotropoli­tan rea, and the~ conclusion I dra>v fron1 th· ir ob'C'rYatlmJ-; i· thnt the sclJOol hotn3 for tJJ,-. yor;:ng rhllrh··-::'rt rr1'c far too lrJil~~·. rLhat a nwJter to Yrhich I trn-3t Hw fniun' Direct-or of Edurrttior~ wlll give eon~-.]dl'l'<lf;on wh0n drrnving- the IH'\V

It i-· "\Yorthv of in of Hw cbanQ'<'s 'that arc taking pla~e

1n n1odc~·:n 0duraiion. 1 hope that lhc VJ~,t abroarl of l\1r.

:\lcl{cnn:t and ~fr. Ed'.Y<Jrds will bear fruit in the J:cw ~yl1a1m~. I think lt is a very ;.;ood icle" fot: officials of departments c·uch :ts the one undC'r discussion, to {rO abroad rr!:rularl.v, desplic the expense to the Stat:c c( ,vhlch smn~ p0oplo may complain. It IS

vcrv nccc.;;s::trv for our officers to have a fir;::f-h~'nd kno~vlC'ii~e of the inct·-..~,ant changr's thn.t 011·0 being- nladc in ~ociaJ conditions. and it ie thc~dorc a good idea for them to go a1Jroad at reg-u1ur inh..•r' :dEi to obserYC what is happc·ni11g in other countries of the world. I trust that the result of the investigation by those officers will be that the crlncational system of Queensland \nll be put on a higher plane-not that it does not m€'a<::urf' up to avcra,g-c 8tanr1nrds \vhcn cmnparing Queensland with the other Sta_t 0 S of Au:tra!ia. \Yo must rcali:cn, hanng regard io d1f' changjng· condltions throntsh­out the world and their neccssarv reaction upon the crlucatior>al system of oln· people, that "·hat was consirlcred a ROOd method of teael1jng tvvDnt:v yPars ago ha"', r:o pJac~ in t~1c education Cf1Llipn1ellt of to-da.y.

Generally speaking, I think our State school teacher" and officers of the Devart­mcr:t of PuL]jc Instruction arc rendering a very cftlcicnt service to the people of the State.- I hope that some cons;clcration will be gi\'en to tho qu~:;;tion of hours for yonng children in our schools.

Mr. =,rULLER (Fa:,sifern) [12.54 p.m.l: \Vithout ,-;i,hing to take up the time of the Com1nittco unncccs;3arily, I should like to take this opportunity of congntulating the l\Iinistcr on the way he has handled hB d(~partrnent. I '" D5 particularly pleased to hear the ::Vlinjstcr's rf'ply thjs rnorning to a.

Mr. llfnller.]

1212 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

I de:o;lt·(_' to Dirc.~tor of gcEtlcr(J,'ll 1\'('11

"\\-ol·k upon not. JH £.) to

iEcl.nstl'\' action.

h n

to

a tr-ibut0 to th::") rc:tiriug J\Ir. ~le_._:elllW.. fJ_'hat

confi(lc-nct") of ahno-.;t State h~:;; tPnn

he he~.s

BT·Yf'tcn1 111 op:·rntion wonderful to see the

h(· hac: be''ll ahle to brlnr.; I should like, a:though I am ple<tsed with

the organisation generally, to 1nakc a few remarks concerning the position of our country schools. \Vhen speaking to this vote last year I noentioncd that something like ten small schools were closed down in my electorate. I notice from the report that seven more were closed during last financial yoar. It is regrettable that these schools should bo closed, and I suggest to the Minister that it might be a,dvisable to investigate the matter with a Yicw to dis­covering whether it would not be possible to allow these schools to remain open, even though the aserage attendances might be below the required number. I was delighted to hear an hon. member opposite making reference to this matter. I feel that if the GoYernment continue to close these schooL:;;. the time will soon arrive when people ,,, ill refuse to sett'e in the areas concerned. :Manv of these schools hod been open for many yca.rs. but when it happened that the attend­ance fell below the required number the dopa rtmcnt \\'as forced~ because of tho Government's policy, to close them. Tlutt is a great· pity, rtnd I cannot see any hope of their ever being reopened_ bc-rauso once they arc closed the people will drift away from tho district, and the attendance will never again reach the required numlwr. l f Y>O owe anything to the community at all vve certainly owe at least decent education to tho children. If we have any regard for the future of Qul 'ns:and \VG sbou1d realise that before we can hope to dc,-elop our coUJJ· try districts \VC must prmide suitable facili­ties for the education of the young.

I commend the Minister ccnd his officers for the consideration they have given to the ouestion of rural education. Results have been very satisfactory, and I think that the present move augurs well for the future of our primary industries.

I should like to express my appreciation of the way in which officers of 'the depart­ment have encouraged sport. I believe that physical development is as essential as mental den•lopment, .nd if \YC a1·c to expect the

[Mr. Muller.

best rrsults fr·orn our ~chools we should cncour :g(~ spm·ting activities. I ha ye taken great plea ure in attending sporting hmc­tiono in my electorate because I believe tha,t iho er..couro::,·cn1ent of sport will have a very benef-icial effect npon education gcncr<1lly. It is pleasing to note tha,t the C\linister has played an importa,nt .part m th1s movement, and hL,•; ~!-iH'!l of lu:-: tHne nLftC\"<'l' tl1:t has been JlO'oiblc in the furtlwranco of the physical dcvcloprnont of the rising genera­tion.

Generally speaking, the \York of our Dopcntment of Pub'ic Instruction has been excellent, and I should iil'e to say tha,t we on this side tlo not regard this a,c a pa,rty political rnatlLT. llon. mcn1bers on this side of lhc Committee with the Goyom., mc~nt in cYcr.- thing do for the d,,\-ck·JVJH·nr of onr sy::-t.cn.

l'lh-. GLEDSO='-' (Tpswich) [12.59 p.rn.]: I join 1vith otlwr hon. n1e1nbor.::: in congratu~ lating the dcparlmcnt upon the ex. c'llent 1'\'ork t.ltaL 1ws be2-n carried in connoct1ou v;it11 the larger point that I wi~h to n1akc with thi•c yote is that there is ferenrc betwee-n the ttoatnH.'nt. l·cccivcd larger schools anJ that acroordccl to sm,_._~lm· school· L~pclli perusing this re11ort one perceive~ thnt 1,170 schools are estab­lished ir: Quccns~a.'1d, 11 it.h attendances rnnging froni t\Yclve to fift~T· 'Ibis lllC<tn~ that we hnve \Yell oyer 1,000 one-teacher ;,chools, and I should like to take this oppm­tunity of making an appeal for help on behalf of those smaller schools.

At 2 p.rn .. The CIIAJR}fAX resumed the chair.

:Ylr. GLEDSO:\: Queensland has edu ·a­tional !lroblems -omcwhat different from those of most other countries. so that although \YO n1ay L"-' al)lc to l0arn fro111 Pducational systemS. of tho-;e other countries we have our o•,vn pccu1-i.ar problems. rrhrr ~ is no precedent for them, and the Department of Public Instruction has to initiate methods to suit them. ·with the pr:>Yions speakers on both sides of the Chamber, I desire to say how rnuch the teachers and parents of the children appreci ·tc th0 work of l\Ir. ~1ci{cnna. B'cC'a-:.1se he had an opportunity of 1 )ciu;r ont ill the backhlock~~ 0f Que-en;;.; .. land. far i'Z mlh and North-West, in the when there was no mch thing n~ tlw aC1'0JJ1anc, or cYc-n the n1otor car, in places \Yhcrc he had to go through mud and sln~!l and use pacl-:::-hot ns to carry his goods, he gainC'd an eX)leriC'TJCO thnt hns enabled hin1 to dc~l '.Vith the prob}t~rns peculiar to QuPPnsland. The tnn~cllin.2' con­ditions in tho~c places arc very different to-daJ', hnt IYC haYc numhcr of small schools. i ,_'·r-·t there nr' ~2n ·wif·1 h· scholars, 642 \Yith twelve to twenty-four scholnrs, and 109 unclassified schools, n1aking a tut1l of 1,171 smn,ll school~. The Dcpartm ·nt of Pnl)lic Instruction IS

faced with the problem of prO\·iJinz for these sina1lcr schools--" onc-b:achcr schools," as they are called.

In some of the larg·er schools-not n i1 of thPrn~tlle deparhnent has been able to nse ne\v aids to education. It has obta1n-:.:ct up-to-date moving pictures and cincrna.to­graph filn1s, IYhich aro shO\'VYl weekly. in some schooh Ther8 is also a>Jothcr mach,ne. the epidiascope, which is a wonderful aid. in educational matters. A picture from "'

SujJply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1213

magttzin0 or an at'tic1c ran be put into this machinC' and thro1vn on to a Ecrccn in an cnlarg"c'rl forn1. Gcogravh.v ]c:-:sons cnn bc:­taught with it \Yith C'~-pcria] success, and pic­hn·cs of other countries and intt'rcsting sub­ject.; sho'.'. n. That is all to the good. In a{ldition, \Yirclcss equipn1<'nt has b('C'n pro­Yided. in a nu111b( r of the larger schools. They aho l1ave a.rnpljfying cquiy)lnent for ust~ \Yith gran1ophorH' record?.. The ArrlallC'l' schools. however. han; not this CC]Uipmcnt. allrl I ,._ug-gP"'t to tb"- dt'partrncnt tho pns-.i­bjlit_Y of proyiJing a cinc_matograph machine or ;;n epidiascope, ;1nd making aYailable an office. of the rl0partment to visit the rurfll setwoJs r,_,riodirq,Uy to give tlu rn the adyan­ta~n of these• r-2icnt.ific aids to teaching. It i;;; itnpossih]c for H1e conn-nitters of srnall sc!Jonls to bu~, that cqnjpn1ont.

Thc·rc ln 1\hich help conld fw schools, particular!,·

The tc:u }1cr in =t

t<kc ell the chldron. to :;<cholarship

rccciyo all th,, by way

rcrnark:-:; of 1 he ·with the in~p\..'Ctor'<

,,·ell that "'hen I went to ~rhool \VO looked upon iho inspc~ctor as a bo~~·- rnan. \Ye were afnti<i he onJr1 do ;.;ornP,thinr; to us and Y\·crc frightened ,,vhf'n hn can10 into the schooL ~Chat fca1· JH':~vallc(l m110:-1g thr~ <::llilr1ren tilJ not. so ycr~- ]ong ago. and parents often had difficulty in get­ting the children to go to school when they knc\\' the in~poctor \Vas corninp;. I "".V:1s g la cl to lr a m from the remc,rks of the Minister thi~ n1orning that th -,t fPar is pasl;'ing and th<tt the in,pcctors ::re making then 'lv" not bog~T 1ncn. but goor1 friPnd~ to th0 ehilclren and the teacher~. T think it should b0 inrnlcatcd into the rnlnd of CYCj' ,· in:;ppctor th8t he should hP a ]lr'ln nnd shou1d not fincl fault and indnk<' in -the criticism that. in da;-.Tp, pa~t. Inn~lP somP h:ac1tcr~ into nr'rYmB \Yrccks. I n m gla~l that the old ~:-siC'nl is going. I hay:- had the plPn~nre of -:i:;;itjru: SC'Ycral scl10oh 11·jt h tl1e :I\Iini~b'r, ""cl 1 k\'mY that hr' h"; takNI the tunity of talkinfr v;}t11 sOl!H' of the nnd a"king- tlH'nl about ih0ir 1\ het he·:· fhr~v lnH v hin1 not. had no llf'~i-iation in '' J:~ c kno1.v i he " Y\.'l1rJ1 the"· n rC'

Lf' . r1 1 h· n lS'.VC'l'

am tr-:·ing to schools. It "the jack of anc1 so in ~hou!d conP>idcr fi1 ,;t for the a vcrage chil<l ren tials of education that

" ... '\re you

"111

said thd of 110110,''

nd ur.a ti on \VC

it i, possible to absorb i"llc c:-:sul­aro required to fit

them for after life. I am glad to know that the department is not l,n ing down a. h~u·J ani.l fa ~t rule. sa3 1ng '· Thjs is the B.' stem that must bo taught," and that it is giving con:;;ideration to the teaching of sub­jects that will better equip the chilrlren for the work that they undertake after they leave school. BJ+t I suggest that some of the subjects that aro llOW compulsory should be made optional. Of cour~P. in yocn tional trrLilli!Jg, it if-3 not ahYay.- po'<sib1c to con­gregate tho brightest pupils of a particular district, in a certain school a.nd say. "\Ve nre going to carry out this vocational :-3ystcrn in this particular school." nor do I think that that would be wise. I am not pn.-on-a.ll ,, kPon on it, but I mn a.nxions that •,clJH' t1](• snlJjcel~ t!1at arc no\V eornpul-sory should bccoxnc- optional subject~ in Yocational training, so that boys a.nd girls moy be bottc>r CC]Uipped for thPiJ· careers,

In our educational ehould 110t ~- q lH'~t ion ,f ho~,y nHt< knows

or how much ho has bec·n to absorb in 11is traininc,. ,'s I~"' teacher. or even how much he can n tell the children under his control, as a qu( .:,tion of encouraging t.he (·ili1dr<'n t~) 1-·lk:(' to stndv ln a natural way. That is a poliry that jfl being- rnorc and rnore adopted bY educational authorities throagh­out Hw wo.rld, and I am glad to kno' th Jt it is aho thn policy of ouJ~ o1vn dcpart!ncnt. Thr, ehilrlren should be allm·cd to do the work for themselves: thcv ohould not depend entirclv on the teacher. ~ I think \"';P 1night well depart from tlw practice of the past of expecting a tca.chcr tn s\vat frmn morning till night in the belief that he was thus doing hjs work conscientiously in tho intcr­csh of the department. without any regard being had (o the natural efforts of the children.

I do not kn~1v that there is anything ~lse iltnt I shnuld lil~c io "-ny, b?:vo_I:d cm;nn~t~t1ng on. tho suggcc,twn that. smglllg' :-;r1mucl be made a cornpulr;ory :;.ubjPct. in tlw schools. Tb<1t i~ one of the subjcds that an' t.Lught at tht; pre Cilt tlrnc; but it -i~ r ·t. aiwa.:vs po'1-;iblr• to ~rt a tenchcr who j.- nn (1 nthusi­astic lover of rnnsic and rdngi ng, and i.s ab_le to deYclon the musical capacity of the chll­drrn t0 nl"' fu1le't c:-dPnt. Althougll 2illglng

in e\"erv schuoL it is only a. few arn ,fortun:-ttP enou£.dl to hctn_~

trachcrs \Yho are ex:cept;onn11.v'~ g'iftcd in t!wt. direction. Thc,.e cnthusiaetic Rncnd a. great deal of tin10 jn the rhildrcn to ~ing scbool~roon1 or in [lnblic jn a yery 1nnnnc:r. Tho depa.l'trnont i~ a ~plcn~hd work · n ei:~tc•d 1 :od py, ry

all O\Tcr the have

dO"\VI1 a cmnpctition.

to ·which I rcfr-;l~, enthu.sinstic and

tn rh::-ugo of tho ::;lng1ng I yisitcd. thnt school about

the tcl,cht'l' in chrrrgo great lover of music

111 r. Gl eels on.]

1214 Supply. [ASSE~IBLY.] Supply.

and singing, and devoted much time to developillg' the capacity of the children in this l'Cspnt. It i" IH)t a1.':ays po~sible for a teacher to apply the ncces,moy amount of time to a particular Buhject. The teacher in nharg•e of a ono-tracher school, who has to teacl! children who vary in age fron1 fixe to sixtpcn, and also gi ,-e spcciu.l atten­tion to a scholarship class, cannot clevoto the .1111e a1nount of titnG to the teaching of .singing as a tea--·her in a large school.

The het that many children attending Buch small sch.)ols pass the scholarship exurnination. \Yhich entitles them to sce:oncl­ary education, n-flccts great credit on the teachers and on the Teachers' T1·aining Col­lcg·e. Tlutt i3 an institution that Quccn~-;land uu'dl t <.::o be proud of. Let .1u::::e it out tc:~dv·J·s f!ro thoroughl;-

trying dutie;5. <lay',. are not s2nt out to small without having been taught i.eachiw; methods there to deyelop ideas of thPir O\Yil. The teacher:1 to-da:· are tlJOrou~hly trained and fully equipped to gin; the children the hest educational facili­tic''' poc'eiblc.

I join othu hon. members in expro' c-111~~, r:_ppi'• of thr: \York of =\It. l-bdclcll

. the rtb ~~ilCl~ of l\lr. l\IrKenllf' ·sa1·d..::. a~. ro ,d. \Ye are glad

ho has been rc•,tored to health. and we hope that he ,,.ill continue to cnjo;, good health am1 to giYo eU:ieicnt service to the people.

:\lr. BRA:'\D (fsis) [2$1 p,m,]: \Ye arP a .. .-kcd io snpport a votr· for £1.215.327, and ·'Jf th;:~t, f-lliY', £1.136.827 is represented by alaric' of the 4,321 tcachcro in our ;whook flti~ cronnous _•.1nount the Ycry gtcat wmk that devoh·c"> u;on heacl of the l}ennrhncnt of Public In truction. It is a g-ig~autic instirutlon, I suppo>:c the lar;rest department in the Government service.

I ioin \Yith hon. ln,_:rnbC'r~ of this Charnber ,:y};o. have alreaJy in pa,ving a tri-bute i.o the re·1clered by 1\Ir. ~IcKenna. It i:-) gratif~-:ing to kno\v that all hon. rncrnbers in thi."l Chatnber regret th~t at tho enc1 of the v<ar h" ha, to lcaYe the po:::t to \Yhich he \Y:F called ome years <-lg-o. l!S ren1Pn1lwr ilH~ occasion \Yln•:1 Director of Educ>o,tion. ~<\~ t.]l(' VPar havC' rolled ln:. IYC l1avc taken pit ·.·-;lt'c in notl11g the cotifi<lerablc improvc-llF'nts brou abont not on!y in the depart-DJent, bnt o jn the teaching- ~en-ice througlJout tl1c State~ This irnprovtrnPnt reflpct;;.: ~~r. ::\IcKennn.'~ Ycrv f-ine work. .1:\s o~c y;J1o liv('~ in thP count~·v I arn nlea--ed

kllo'.; th<Jt coHs1dera11r: ~Jynlpatfly- ha;-; f•x:t('nch·d towflnls the country district he as~nnH·c1 officr•. IIr- cn~lf' to hi:~

ne\~.- position after ha"~.-ing ,::::pryed in u1nw<::t PY0r:'--· bra.dch of tlH~ Jcpartrnpnt, ancl hi-3

· tribute to }: i -, ea paci ~ y, al) ·1 oJ- 0

of P~1blic Illstrnction and of Ol1T St.1..tn. It lS

kno~.,- that t1H~ pullie ('ould :·up11ly tlH~ nw.il

oul the job of Dir ctor of the titnc· a rnan of grcnt

\Va nccd(·d. and thP tlcp::J.l'tllH'llt \Ya:::;

to ,'>lll)ll]~- hi:n1. f-Ie ha3 done his job. ~vir. ~ I::I{ciJna h:l..~ giYc-:a gre:_1.t :-:crvicc during t.Ll' lu . .st fe\Y c~ncciallv IYhen the ·~\<:lru-j of thn :ud[ w~re .~ubjectcd

su.lar~.,., cuts. by thi:-, YOh'. by IY<lY, that tc aclwrs of C'uet•nsland

nrP i.o ~ '-~ cut tn thf~ cxtr-nt of £131,000 yLar. 1s a very large

[l1l1'. Glcclson.

sum of monev. Officers of the department, including- th(; Director hirnself. haYc suf­fen cl considerably in this respect.

I learnPd frmn the rnnarks of tho l\Iinistcr this 1nornlng that h0 propo:-c~ to utilise the ser~.-iccJ of :.\1r. =vici(enna in the drawing uv a lH'\V sylln.Lus and writinc; of t\.'xt-bC>Ok~. 1 tlJi1Jk the .lVIini ~.d'l' v;ill a~:-rc,_' that that io; a pretty big job,

I'!1e RET_\.HY 1 Annir-cr.TliRE AXJJ STo\·E: And i~; a 111.111 to do it.

)fr. BH_\~,~D: -\..-(-. to do 1ltr' job. Tt i.~ a mg thrrt when c:1rnrlct0d it

to l hr de·''l1'1tilC'11t

1 1 ;Lolr' of t1H· ll;lYC' h ll'd thl' IJ'i]Etl("~ 1·J ·r. :\l('K( JJll.

]: ,;,!ln-;·

I SHl1PO:"f' lTIOSt

bccnu::.;e of the t.i:mc to timP, not but al-.:o frmu pareuts of pupil C·· u;c.:e fc•r attr-nlion of tcr.c.; \\ lwn

1.:.1

1n ill~( ,,-ho o~hcr has \.h•rrecd attcnchucc of rnont1l:-:. before sent to a.u:y

must bo an a Ycragc forty-eight for t.hrt'(· tant teacher IYill be

The SECRETARY FOR PFBLIC I:-;sTRcl rrox : Forty-fi,-c.

Mr. BRA:\"D: I nnclerstoocl that fortv eight, but "·het her it is fody­fortv-clght. I think that. tlw nurnbcr bu i:~cduced considcrabl:-. Touchi11g ou lnattr-r. 111(' (<}lt(•f Tn ... lH'C\Ol' of s('i1ool:-­in tl1c report-

<; It is plain that the schools, far from be in rr mPrc know ledge factone.s. a.r0 plac~s where corrc~:'t habit::: and altitud~,, ar~ dcYclopcd. The task of the ll'<Lch:·r,; is therebY n1a.do n1ore r-xacting. It i:;; a colnpar.atiYel_y easy :nutti-er to tran~n1it a certain an1cunt of inforrrJ<"l · lon tc tbc­pnpi,"s; it i:-:. not so cas . ...- lo organi ~-~ ::<:

school cotnnn1nitv where the are to cl:'nlop 1·~ght luthits of acting, und li\'ing. rrhis rnore t: sk tlw tca"hcrs luwo accepted for thPy recognise that eYery the right to attain the hic;lu t withi,{ thc limits prcscrihccl by capacitY. The teachers are, for the part. V di~charging their duties respOnsibilities conscientiously and cfficic-nLh-. It 1::3 not surprising. ho\vc-ye:-, that the·~, sornctirnes con1plain that there is i11sufiicicnt tin1c to Ja .all th 1t is ('Xpectcd cf th.:_•rn. The ~oad prcsS()S 1no.stJ he a Yily on the one-teacher schools.

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1215

These schools arc Jlermittcrl to work on a reduced cnrricnlum. but son1o ,Jf them

tlle full pro('TanHne~. and-I to --oftc•n \vith

rk:- large:r

The SEcRETARY FOR Prnuo IxsTnc;cTro;:.: : It is Yerv nice. rrhat is a, prc~·naut para~ gra.ph. ·

:VIr. BRAND: Yes. It ,!JJ\\·s 1hat although schools ati..en1pt 1hc full programrne-­

often vYith as 1nnch ~,uccess ns ~mno of larger-staffed sr:hool,~thc Chief Inspec·

tor rc-ali;;;ls, as I a.m snro all the depa.rtn1ental <>fficers do. tha.t the load weighs most huwily Oll the one-teacher schools.

The Srcm:TAEY FOR Pt:m.rc IKSTBUCTI0::-1 : Are you recornmending an increase in taxa­tion to meet the cost 'I

:.'Jr. ETIA~n: 1n thi;-; (;! c• 1 ~·{"'onlnH'lHl :::: loy;·cr a \'c r~tgc tha:1 1 lwt m·c;-;cl·lbec1 tC~-daY.

.'r1lnk ' fort oYCr three c~l·lW.dt to justif.~· assistant teacher. to Gne :Ylini:-'ter that parents centres bclicn' that their children receive a~ an f'duention at OJH'-teaehcr i"iChool.::: \. an average attendance of f·nty-fiye ur fort:·-cight pupils as they v;ould if hYo t,0a.C'hf·rs were appointed_ In country rEs­trict~, in particrdal~_ Jnany of th0 children !i.-e considerable distances from the school. and it is dif!1cult to keep the a n'ragc attend. ancc up to forty-eight. To maintrtin that avC'ragc for three 111011ths it is (l;r:neraJl:.­nccessary to ha vo an cnrohncnt of sixty to sixt,v-ilve scholars, Consequently. the present rninin1um average n1ust n1ako it rnore diffi­cult for the single teacher to carry out the \\·ork expected of him. Mr. Edwards realises thie. ancl I bring the matter forward in the hr:1pc that some reduction ,,-jll be n1adc in the nnmber of children required before an ac.ishnt teacher can be sent lo these schools. It would be a dcciclocl advantage to the department and the children if an additional teacher were ~ent to quite a number of these ~chooJs. ~

T

C\-1'1''?

tinlC to " project lJavc been hclnetl to

to th~ir othPr stu'dies. Tt J:-3 plPa:: iug to kncnv that as a result

, f r l1i~ v-ork our bo.~ ,., and girls--our boys p:uiienlady--havc rc~pondcd so well that on Yi::Jiting ihe Syd11ey Ro;-'aJ ~:)how and the

Melbourne Exhibition Queensland boy,; bn1 years junior to those of other Statt>s 1HJ:Y8 heen rccarded as the best judges of da1ry stock. TheY han' rJw>Yll that we arc two J ears ahcacl of other States in that and I cornplin1cnt the clcpart~n0nt on progre~s n1adc in that direction .n..ncl tngo t-he l\ljnjstt'r to give it every Pncouragen1Pllt in the futcue. It is a splendid work, and is doing a great service to tho chi:drcn of our State.

I shonld aLo like c:Yer..-,- rnral centre to adopt the rura.l f;chool cn~riculun1. During the last t\y··l~.-c 1nornhs the J\Iinistor has had specially trained ofl1cers taking up the whole of thP rural schuol "ubjf~cts of woodvvod<~.:, le:-~tltc'rlvod\:, nnd sheet 1netal \Vork_ If rhc' l' teachers could teach all three subjects the 0c,,tablishment of thosP 'chools in every mml ccntr" would be facilitated. iUany pJaccs \Yonld welcon1e it. I rc<:>ognisc that thn cmt is a'1 important factor, but I know lhat in most centres tho parents are prepare-d

hell' io rai3e funds to carry the work Parents throughout the State have

a fine record in that ,,, poet. I commend the v.-ork to Hw l\1inistl:r. and I hope that he will r6Ye tlw conntry schools the facilities to fit' the children to. tak0 their part in the industrial life of the community, and to make then1 beitrr citizens than otherwise they could Le.

''.Ir. IIEALY (Wcmcick) [2.37 p.m.]: The fact that this Yote absorbs 80 per cent. of the moncv ]Jrovidcd for education in Queens­land de1~10n~i rates the irnportanco of our State schools as an as .et to the State. That ran lH~ n•adily rcco,1;ni~ed, too. vd1en \Ve consider t.hat onJv a ~<'Ore of years ago \VO

were spending no. m on than £500,000 a year on education. To-de!v that amount is trebled. That contrast illustratco also the great rliimgc' that ktY<' been pffccted and ~he progrf'~·.; that has been n1ade in .educatron in 1 hi~; Sulte. Probablv in no ot,her avenue ':w >ve point to such g~eat changes and such 1naterial progress.

I dc<ire to pay a tribute to the men and ~,·o1nen in charge of one-teacher schools

'reel thronghont the length and breadth of Statf~. They are doing a fine 1:rork 111 catF(' of the youth of Qupcns1and--

cloinp: it undc'r so~1ne difficulty. too, par-rlv <iller tlw ma ioritv of tho.'c 1.000

,ehooJs · a re ~itnated i~1 c~trcmcly rcrrlote fnr from t}lc~ arnenit1e·~ of ;;:Qcial life,

of the living conditions ~hat in th(: ci:-ies :·-ncl larger towns. is not c onflnPd to fhc ~chool

!mi !rl ings or to school hours. They take a J=.Sl'C'Vt intprc::t in giying the children

in :-:nort. and the cnthnsiasrn dis­in thi's direction is commrndable. In

~.:::- ,,;c• haY~> onr PrinH'-r"'" Sehoc•ls Sports A --celation. a\'"o SeCond~H~ Schoo1s ~~ ll'ts As--a ·-l:ich h'.:.s P_n :;.J!Jl'la1 ~-norh vvithout 1.if'~ i tatio;l event 1 hfl t the ~ h:: ~l

l~pe~'i cf the '.;ork iu onc-tc,:cher: appeals to Hle is that in n1any

the t0acl1C'l\ hn\"0 Jarg(~ ll1iH1bc'rs oi unckr tlwru. ])u ring a tour of tlh~

?\orih son1e "nonths ago ihe ·p1rly of which I wns onL-, called at <-L school-I th~nk jt \vas Little 11ulgutYC-\\ here the teacher, a

J11r. Hcaly,]

1216 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

young lady who came from the Training Collego, had an attendance of forty-three pupils. The school was one of the small type, and she had six or seven different grades of scholars under her control, in addi­tion to three scholarship candidates. I do not think that it was fair to the teacher, the scholarship candidates, or the children in the other grades that she should have so many pupils under her care. Of course, I understand that lack of finance is respon­sible for these circumstances, but I express the hope that when the financial position Df the State improves, the number of children required to be present before a second teacher is appointed will be redLtced.

is no doubt prm-cd

a cynosure eyes in lative reform, a Bill to make it possible for every in that Dominion to install a and although I do not suggest that we should go so far in this State, I do say that families who obtain education through the correspondence classes should be cncour­age·d to buy wireless sets if they can afford them. If they cannot afford them, some means should be found to help them to do so in the interests of the education of their children.

The last annual report by the Secretary for Public Instruction contains a brilliant gem in the report by the Chief Inspector, Mr. Edwards, which should be read by everybody. There is one .aspect of it that .. ppeals to me immensely. that is. his remarks about the over-burdening of th8 curriculnm with ancient history-

" I think that the history schedule is of our school programme that

mo3t alteration. It tends to deal too much with the past. The past is important because of its effect on the present. But there is no necessity to approach the past on bonded knee, and to deal in great detail with those fea­tures of the past that cannot be con­nected causally with the present. Such features are superfluous and obsolete. The merely traditional is not necessarily cultural. The children should learn more about vvhat is going un in the world around them. Our curriculum should rema.in broadlv cultural as well as " practical," but with a culture that is related to present and future life needs, as well as the past."

1 feel sure that hon. members and the people generally endorse the sentiments so fittingly expressed by the chief inspector. The time has arrived when more attention should be g_iven to present-day history, RO

that the ch1ldren may be better equipped to attempt to solve the problems of the future,

[Mr. Healy.

We are all well a ware of the great work that the Director of Education has done in the cause of education in this State. Everv­body appreciates his good work. The founda­tion that he has laid will always be a monument to his efforts. The dreaded sixty-fifth year has arrived for him, as it has arrived for many other public servants and railway employees, and he has to step out. However, I feel that so long as we have men of the culture and intellectual capacity of Mr. Edwards all will· be well with the educational services of the State.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. F. A. Cooper, lJrcrner) [2.46 p.m.J: I can hon members that the Dcp;utment Public Instruction and the both givon conside,·a-t~on to of one-teacher schoob. WherG does not go above one teacher is Yided. we should reduce that to forty., hove we n1ay be able to do so in the near future. It may rnean a tremendous addition to the cxpondi ture of the department, but I think we should roduoo i hat number. It is not forty-eight, as th0 hen. member for Isis said. but round about forty-five. After it has been reduced to forty, for some there will no doubt be an agitaJ~Jion reduction t.o thirty-five. but that should not deter lB fro1n ·doing thing-if it is the right thing to reduce to forty, and I belicw it is. As the hon. member for V.far­wick said, finance is the difficulty. It meam that a num bcr of schooh tlla.t now have cne teacher, will haYe to have two, and th.~t means an aclditional number of teachers in the service of the department and an incrco.se in the salary bill. I can assure the Com­mittee that if we can get the money there will be no hesitB.tion on the part of the department in reducing the average atten­dance that will enable some one-teacher schools to become two-teacher schools.

The hon. member for Ipswich spoke at length-and very wiselv-on the matter of small school equipment." That is a problem of fina..nco, too. The difficulty is that we are not able to give the small' country school many of the facilities the city school got., of its own accord. but it is none the less a truth, and one that cannot be repeated too frequently, that in the matter of examina­tions, the country school does as well as the city school. That has been proved over and over again in the matter of scholarshin examinations and in particular tests. Hon. members will notice from time to time that this school is celebrating its golden jubilee. and such an-d such a school its diamond jubilee. As a matter of ·fact. we have a surfeit of schools that are getting over the half-century and getting towards sixty-and some of them have reached life's allotted span, three score years and ten-and the demand upon the department for new build­ings and additions is considerable. I wish we could rloal with them all. but we have not enough money at our disposal to con­struct the number of new buildings asked for and to carry out the repairs that are required. Until we ean give the children satisfactory accommodation, I cannot see that we can spend much on the equipment mentioned by the hon. member for Ipswich; but-if these appeals reach anybody at aii­I should like to make a particular appeal to-day to school committees--those bodies of peopio who give their services in the interests

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1217

of the children, and. in man,. instances, in the interests of the teachers throughout the Jr.ngth and breadth of the State. I know that there is great satisfaction jn doing something that gives pleasure, but some still have the idea that the greatest pleasure you can give a n1an is to giYe him a f0ed or a drink. I am sorrv to sa v that there are school committees '~ho rnal~e no bonos about spending £20 to £25 on the last da:· of the school year in providing buns and ginger beer. not onlv for the children, but their parents, and 'think, because for two hours thev have distended the stornaclts of tho chii'drcn and their parents, that they have clone a year)S 'VOrk. rrhc ll1Gney expended in buns and ginger beer would put a wire­less set into the school and maintain it there for twelve months, day after day. day after day-not distending the stomachs of the children, hut opening their minc.h-and be a far greater benefit than a breaking-up picnic.

Mr. MAHER: They might not want to listen to Mrs. 'Arris and Mrs. 'Iggs. (Laughter.).

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: Yes; I hope you are not "incinerating." (Renewed laughter.) I do make this appeal to some school commit­toes in Queensland. There is the class of school committee that says, "vVe like to aee the youngsters enjoying thernselveB." I should like to take the members of that committee along to the school where wire· less is iru;talled to show them how the chil­dren are getting enjoyment and instruction from wireless. I should like thorn to see the benefit the children derive from lookin(i at good pictures and from the use of the eprdio­scope, described by the hon. member for Ipswich. All these things belp. In many small communities wireless sets have been installed in schools. The problem of wire­less is a difficult one in country districts. All one has to do in the city is to plug in, and put the cost of wireless on to the electric light bill, and you really do not notice it. The country school has to maintain a battery, and I think the department should pay for the recharging of the battery when it is needed m a country school. We cannot pro­vide batteries for the operation of wireless sets, but I think the least we could do would be to recharge batteries. I do not think we can be expected to do more at present.

I forgot to mention earlier in the day the valuable report made by Mr. McKenna on his return from England. I do not think this is a day for me to remind hon. members of things they have said in the past, but I hR ve a recollection of people, outside this Chamber at any rate, who came to me and said, "Oh, I sec you are going to give Mr. McKenna a little trip. Some reward for BCrYices ?" ::\1y reply was, "No. Mr. J\JcKenua is being sent overseas for a definite purpose." Those people have gone away firmly believing that the Government wcr0 sending i\1r. ::\IcKenna overseas for his own enjoyment. Kothing was further from my thoughts when I made the proposal to Cabinet, and nothing was further from the thought of Cabinet. when it agreed to send him abro:td. Cabinet knew that Mr. McKenna would furnish a valuable report upon his return.

An 0PPOSITIOX MDIBER: Ho should have gone before.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRCCTION: Mr. McKenna will be able to render this State much useful service

1936-2 R

in the compilation of the new syllabus and the text-books that have been so necessary. The making of a trip ovemeas has given him an opportunity to equip himself for this very important work. The report fur­nished by him is a very valuable ono. It was printed almost in full in the teachers' journal, and by that means his work has been brought before the notice of every teacher in this State. It was really an internal report, so far as the department was concerned. It was not intended for Parliament or for general publication. It was intended for t.he use of the department, net only for to-day. but also for to-morrow, and I can assure hon. members it will be used that wav. It will be still valuable in five or ten years' timP. It is where it will not be overlooked and it will not be for· gotten. It will be road throug·hout the length and breadth of this Stato. Mr. McKenna has received invitations from teaching organisations to give them addresses upon the valuable information gained by him when abroad.

The hon. member fo>e Cunningham referred to the Mount Emlvn school. So far as reports in the department disclose, not at any time have sixteen pupils been offered at that school. The school was closed in :March. 1936, when the average attendance was 6.4 ThP Department of Public Instruc­tion does not close a school the moment the average attendance falls below nine. We give them a period of three months to increase attendances, and we continually remind them that they need an average attendance of nine to keep the school open. I wish we could have schools for an attend­ance of seven children. Of course. then there would be an agitation for five, and in a vcar or two we should reach that most desirable point where we would be able to give every child a private tutor. But that dav is not yet! We have introduced a correspondence school. which was not insti­tuted because schools were closed, but because there were children living so far away that it wag impossible for them to attend a school. The correspondence school does most useful work.

One hon. member raised the question of tPaching economics in the schools. I think we can agree that the time has arrived when we should include in the curriculum at any rate elementary economics.

Mr. MAHF.R: And the first principle of such a course would be that we should live within our means.

The SECRETARY FOR PUDLif' lN­STRC'CTJON: That depends, of course, on how mean one is. If hon. members opposite arc not preparPd to help the Government in the matter of levying taxation. if they will persist in their d0c.ire to restrict every effort of the taxation department, if they continue· to plead for a remission of this and a remis­sion of that our rncans would becorr1e Ycry low indeed. vVhat we want, however, is a high means and then we can live within our means. I quite recognisE' that the first principle may be to live within our means, but what that means I do not know Kever­thcless. we probably shall arrive; at that .some day. vVe shall probably have to drop something-probably a little of the history that we teach now. vVe have divergent views about the value of history, but I do not intend to enter into a dissertation on.

Hon. F. A. Cooper.]

1218 Supply. [ ASSElVIBL Y.] Supply.

that point at this juncture. In any case, who was the king before William IV. ?

Mr. TAYLOR: \Yhy wony about that?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: I . do not think anybody ·<eould tell me now If I put that question to him actually, and, really, I do not know that it matters very much.

The question of homework has been raised. This is a matter that is brought up over and -over again, but the regulations of the depart­ment arc quite explicit on the point~there is no ambiguity~and so that it mav be impressed upon hon. members, I propose to have the regulation inserted in " Hansard." H.egulation 108 says~

"Teachers may require lessons to be prepared at home by the pupils; but such requirements 1nust. b(' well \vithin the )Jt>wcr of the pupils. H cad teachers shall be r~sponsiblc for the nature and quantity of the home work nr.·,cr ibed bv their assistants. Home tasks burdensom'e to the pupils are expressly prohibited. Pupils in prPparatory grdcle and gracks I. and II. shall be exempt from home ta~ks PithC>r "\Yrittpn or .:Jral

'' The following shall be the oritinarv time per e\·ening allotted for home tr"k"s for i.he grades 'pecified : ~

"GRADE Ill. ~ " Ora:I work for a quartr>r qf an h~ ur, Increasing to half an bout· a~ clae:·s pro­gresses. ='Jo written "\Vork.

"GRADES IV. AKD V. '" I-Ialf an hour, increa'3in~' to three­

quarters of an hour. a:;; cla . .;;s prt)grl';..scs.

"GRADES VI. AKD VII. '·Three-quarters of an hour to oue

hour, as class progresses.''

. But _consideratic>n must be gi y,,,n to the sick chllclren and the children who are other­wise unable to do the home work. The home work as prescribed by the Departm•Jnt of Public Instruetion is not burrku~01ne. and it ·should not be made burdenwmc. I know there is the idea that the <'hildren work too long at school, but I can assure hon. members that that is not so.

At 2.58 p.m., ~lr. Gr.EDSOK (lz•szcich), one of the panel of

Temporary Chairmen, relieved the Chair­man in the chair.

The SECRETAH.Y FOR FCBLIC IN­STRl'C'l'IO?\f: I invito all hon. members of the metropolitan area to go out into tho suburbs early in the morning, and although school does not go in until 9.30 and the children are not expected to bo' at school until 9.15. I stand here and sav that in everv subin·b ho11. members will se"c children going to school at 7.-10, 7.45. and 8 o'clork--going al(_'ng to St'hool an hour or an hour and one-half before school begins. Thev either do a little extra studv fm themseh·c·.; or play in the playground~. At any ratP, the yonng:;;.t.f'rs are onlv too keen to get there early in thP rnorning:~ and I hope that hon. members will not do any­thmg to break down that excellent spirit amongst the children of the State. who help thcm"'lH's at school and who thus make school a better and brighter place day by da~·.

[Hon. F. A. Cooper.

J\Ir. ETY\YAHDS (Tananuo) [3 p.m.]: I have no desire to reply to the :Minister. I riso to Spf'ak generally on this jrnportant vote. First of all, I join with other hon. members in thc1r sentirncnts expressed regarding l\Jr. :11cl(enna and his retirement. Over a ntnnbcr of vcars rnv association \-Vith him has been o£ flu_~ p1ca~santest sort, and J have observed when he has been in mv diiitrict or other districts where I happcneZi to be that he has .alwavs taken a kern inierest in the welfare o( the children. It is regrettable that he ha,; rcaclwd that otage in his life when he has to retire from a very important position.

I agree with the Leader of the Opposition that the Secretary for Public Inotruction has been well chos,;-n. \Ye seem to be alwavs well-equipped in that direction. The Minis­ter in charge before the hon. gentleman took O\'C'I' the department was undoubtedly in his rjght place, and was a man who loved the children from one end of the State to th0 other. and took a Yerv keen interest in them. ·

Tho Minister's desire to gain a thorough knowledge of the places whore the children live is a very good one inde<,d. When we got the hon. gentleman in a good humour, wherever he may be, the children are both encouraged and entertained. I shall not be misunderstood as being personal when I say that there is no need to see Charlie Chaplin after seeing the hon. gentleman­that is, when he is in a good humour. (Laughter.)

The closing of country schools is the most regrettable feature of the department's report. Not that I do not agree that they should be closed "'t a certain point. But does the fact that they are closed not emphasise what we are continually stressing in this Chamber, that the people are drifting from the country districts into the larger centres of population? It is not the fault of the educational system, but it discloses a deplor­able state of affairs. <Two or three families ha.-e to leave a district because of their diffi­culties and the number of children attending the school becomes so small that it has to be closed in the face of those who are able to remain. That is a grave difficulty, and I feel sure that the Minister will do every­thing that he can, in co-operation with other Ministers, to overcome it. The various departments all dovetail together. It is a big problem. The size and quality of onr State are such that people should be living in tens of thousands in country districts instead of drifting into the large centres of population, as thev arc doing year by y<;ar. The correspondence schools movement is a splendid idea, but. unfortunately. in many instances the children arc not able to take advantage of it because their parents them­selves have had little education, and bec.tuso the work of manv is so arduous that it is impo~siblo for them to spare an;.r tirne at night to help the children with their lcssonc .. If it is possi blc I should like to seo a system encouraged in certain centres ·whereby a ('Orrespondoncr: i.eaclwr could be appointed in a home. to which other children could come from a distance round, that is, if a school could not be built or kept open there. EYcn if the department had to subsidise such a teacher, it would bo a wonderful advantage.

I am sure that the Minister will agree with me that it Is a pity that even one child should be left without education

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1219

because of its distance from a school, or bPcausc its school has been closed.

Education in rural subjects has made a great advance in recent years, and I believe that vear bv vcar a greater interest is taken in it,· and ~-ightly so. The project clubs at the different schools arc a credit to the teachers and to the inspectors or lecturers who visit them. It is neces,•ary in rural education. as in anv other branch of educa­tion, for ·the depa;·tment to keep in touch with children at the age of leaving school in order to encourage them as far as pos­sible to continue that education. Again, after acquiring a smattering of education in these subjects often the child himself and the parents think he i.s equipped for some­thing else-perhaps a city position-and a certain part of his education is therefore lost. We mmt realise ihat the children should be equipped for rural occupations. At prC'scnt Inan.v country people vvhose children show abilitv think that thev should get a position in ';,. town. That ~s detri­mental to the country districts in every respect, and only when we can formulate some plan whereby we can encourage the boys and girls with the best brains to remain in the country districts shall we get over many of our present difficulties. It fvllows that if the smartest child goes a way from a small district the other children are

encouraged to do likewis<', and we as coun­try people want to see more encouragement offered to our children to take up rural interests. To do m would be of great assistance in the development of the State.

Mr. NIMMO (Oxley) [3.10 p.m.]: I do not wish to take up much of the Committee's time, but I cannot let the opportunity pass without paying my tribute to the officers in this department and to the Minister. I have always felt that the politician who was appointed to the ministerial control of the Department of Public Instruction was lucky, because we are all interested in the advancement of education. and thus his department is not generally subjected to party political criticism.

We all grow old, and it is unfortunate that Mr. McKenna should have reached the age of retirement. I am sure that every hon. member will acknowledge the fact that the department has been fortunate in having a man of his calibre as its head, but we are all very pleased indeed that his services are to be retained in the interests of educational advancement in the State. The depart­ment is also fortunate in having an excel­lent band of efficient officers who, I think, are sometimes hard put to it to carry out their respective duties. I often sympathise With them. especially when examinations are over, and the successful candidates have to be appointed to the Teachers' Training Col­lege and to other positions. The percentage obtained by the large number of successful candidates is often very close, and the depart­ments have to be very careful indeed in appointing suitable persons to vacant posi­tions.

Whilst I believe in leaving everything to the heads of the department because they are experts in their work. I person~lly beli_eve that in connection With scholarsh1p examma­tions more care shou; cl be exercised before failing a candidate who has secured a good pass in arithmetic but a very poor pass in English. I understand that it is the rule

of the department that a c_andidate must obtain a pass in both Enghsh .and anth­metic, otherwise he is not entitled ~o a scholarship, but to my mmd some latitude should be allowed. For imtance. a boy who obtains a wonderful pass in arithmetic and fails in English might have become a. great engineer if he had had an opportumty to obtain a secondary educatwn. On the oth~r hand a bov who obt-ains a brilliant pass m English and fails in arit~metic may hav<: been a journalist in the mak111g, but accord111g to the rule of the department neither is entit:ed to a scholarship, and thus to secondary educa­tion. I do not think that It IS nght. that such a hard and fast rule should depnve a. bov or girl of secondary educatwn. I sug­gest t~at where the _candidates have shown exceptional ability 111 'either subject the rule should be waived.

I should also lib' to rei<'!' to the subject of providing teachers' residences. I know it has been the rule of the department. of late vears to allow the teacher to reside where he liked, and not to provide residences at all the schools. There is a clamour m the Darra district for a teacher's residence to be erected so that the teacher may hve. at the school. I am thoroughly ln accord With the proposal because it would not only add prestige to the district ,but also have a. t~n­dency to uplift the school. I!s consti~uct!on would be favourably reoeived m the distnct. For many vears there was a school teacher's residence adjoining the Coop_e(s Plains_ scho~l, but it reached such a. condition of disrepair that it was removed. Since that time the head teacher has lived in the city ar~a. I suggest to the Minister that a residence be erected at that school for the head teacher. Not only would work be pro­vided in its construction, but it would also­be a good investment for the department.

I also wish to refer briefly to the very excellent report of the depart.ment, which contains much valuable informatiOn, although some of it is rather startling. On page 1B there is a statistical table that gives the annual enrolment at the schools for a num­ber of years. It indicates that from 1916 to 1928 there was a gradual rise in the num­ber of children enrolled at State schools, from 129,403 to 163,062, but it is rather startling to notice that from 1928 there has been a gradual decline in the number of children enrolled, and last year the figure· had fallen to 159,148. I _also notice that the number of instructors 111 1928 was 4,239, whereas last year there were only 4,137.

I draw the attention of the Committee to the bio- increase during the period of d0pression bin the cost of buildings, furnish­iugs. and n'pairs. In 1928, the peak year of enrolment. £139,871 was spent on these' items. and last year the amount expended was £345.995. That information c~nV'_'YS a startling fact to the people. It. Indtcates­clearlv that our population is not mcrcasm_g at th(, rate at which it is desirable that It should. The time has arrived when we should consider further immigratiOn ta supply the deficiency in our birthrate, or else offer sufficient inducement to people to rear larger fan1ilics.

I again congratulate the Minister and ofliccrs of the Department of Pubhc Instruc­tion in their work in the interests of Queens­land. I am g-lad that Mr. l\-IcKenna's ser­vices will sti] be available for the benefit of the State.

Mr. Nimmo.]

1220 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

l\h. GAIR (South Brisbane) [3.19 p.m.]: Th0 educational system in operation in Queensland is equal to any in the Common­wealth. and \VC have reason to be proud of it. Our splendid primary system of education <:avers the educational "·ants of the chil­dren of this State from the kindergarten stage to the time when they graduate to the second­ary schools. I believe that it is an excellent system and that the results disclose that in thesP schools ther0 arc efficient and painstak­ing teachers who arc doing their very utmost in a noble profe~sion in tl1c inte1·ests (lf the chilrh·en of ibis part of our young nation. We all r<'cognise iho great need for education, and it is indee-d plea,ing to note the great pro;;Tes,, that has been made in the educational system in Queensland during the last twenty or twenty-fiYo years.

Our primary system has been ably supple­menter! b_v a liberal scholarship syotem, enabling many children-approximately 2,000 since the election of this Government and before the election of the Moore Govern­ment-to obtain a secondary education at little or no cost to their parents. That, to my mind, is a Y(~ry generous svstem. It is one that should be maintained" in order to give children desirous of obt~ining a ';econ~ dary education the opportunity to do so.

In addition, we have our technical col­leg·cs, which a re also doing excellent work for the children who are anxious to take •up trades and callings and who are not desirous of a •·econdarv education. I under­stand +hat many children attending these technical colleges have qualified at the Junior public examination.

Excellent work is also being done in the rural schools throughout the State. \V e have our Agricultural College and High School at Gatton-an instance of what the Government are doing in the interests of ou_r youths who look forward to careers in prnnar_v mclustry.

Moreover, children \Yho have been affiicted by long and severe illness and tlms become backward in the ordinary curriculum under the primary system, are provided for by opportunity schools in yariou<;; centres in the metropolis. In this connection I pav a tribute to Miss Sheehv and the other teachers of the opportunity school in the dectorate of South Brisbane. I believe thev arc expP.rts. They arc women of extraordinary patience and abilit~-. who understand the psychology of children. They ar0 doing yeoman S<'nicc in the interests of the chil­dren who rcallv ha.-c not had a fair chance, so far as th-~ir education i~ comcern•ed. Good work has also been ·done in the inter­ests of the blind and deaf children of Queens­land. In mv 0lcctoratfl there is another school that is' a credit to the Department of Public Instruction. It houses manv children who haYo bPen unfortunatelv afflicted bv blindness or born deaf and dumb. ·

The TE:YIPORARY CHAIRJ\IX:'\ : Order:

Mr. GAIR: I take it that this is a State school, and mig-ht be di•cuscecl umler this he:tding, but ir1 deference to your wishc,,, Mr. Uledson, I shall deal '\ ith" that. school on the next vote.

In addition to those places of education to which I have referred, there i.s that splendid work that is being done by the correspondence Echool. Sorne critici~n1 ha2. been levelled at tho efficicncv of this cor­·xesponclence system by h'on. member.;

[ Jlr. Gcllir,

opposite, lmt it n1ust be ren1oubrred that bv its means the Govern1nent are doing tho b~st that is possible for the children who are living in the outposts of the State, and who are unable, by reason of circumstances, to attend the schools estab­lished bv the Government. Of course, if porents ,;-ill insist that their children should 1vork from sunri so until sunset, and are not inc~inccl to give thorn a reasonable chance:, we cannot c'xpect those children to llC'rwfit frorn ihL' col'l'Pjpond(-'llC'C' v-;1cln. On the other hand, \\·o cxp0ct that t'he parent;;; of those childr0n will do !heir best to co­orwmte with tlw depu!ment so ihat the children 1na.v assin1ilate as nlLwh kno1vlcdgP from the le;sons forwarded to them by th~ 1naib a~ vvill erjuip thorn 1;ith a rnca~ure of education qualifying them for their varions ,-ocations in life. I am afraid that hon. members opposite take a very sm<tll-mindcd .-if'w of the efforts that are being made bv the department to meet the man:v c~nditions that obtain throughout the State. I believe, however, that ''very cJfort is being made by the department to meet eYery ernergoncy, and to give education in every phaso of the s_vstem right from the kindergarten to the University.

As I said at the outset. I believe that we ha\'C every reason to be proud of the system obtaining in Queensland. which is doing so much to educate the vouth of the State, One could say a great deal with regard to education in general, but I content myself in conclusion ,,-ith paying a compliment to the officers of the Department of I'ublic Instruction for the enthusiasm and the interest that !hey have shown at all time" in the work that is theirs a,s the adminis­trator, of such an important department.

Item (State Schools) ag1'eecl to.

SCHOOL FOR THE BLIKD AND DEAF.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I:'<­STRUCTION (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Brernerl [3.29 p.m.J: I move-

" That £5,621 be granted for ' School for the Blind and Deaf'."

This vote provides for the salaries and wages of the principal and of the instructional and domestic staffs and for the not cost of the general maintenance of the institution. The small increase in the salaries vote lS

clue to the provision, for officers eligible. of the automatic sc.tlc increases and the appointment of an additional instructional officer. I think I neocl sa v little about the work of this school. It is" well known. As a matter of fact, it is famous. I think hon. members of the Committee will be pleased to know that one of the children who came from the school will be sitting for the Senior University examination this year.

At 3.30 p.m., The CHAIR:IlAN resumed the chair.

::\11-. G \IR (,\'outh Hl'i8banc) [3.30 p,m.]: The school for the blind ancl deaf i.s anothc1· pha;;;r. of tho \York of the clPpal·tJnent in t ht> education of our children. Even the children \','hO haYC been affiictecJ rn blindne" and deaf­ness are not forsaken. ~ Proy·ision is 1nade for thern in a \·cry excellent way by the schoc•l in South Brisbane. Children from all parb of Queensland arc housed there, and recei\ c the best of attention and a measure of education that would otherwi~e have been

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.) Supply. 1221

nenied them. principal and humanitarian that school.

Great credit is due to the his staff for the excellent and work they perform daily in

The Minista- made rderence to a particu· Jar pupil, or an ex-pupil at present staying there, named ::'v1ercy Griffin. She is a sample <:>f the work of the teachers of that school oYer a period of year· She was born in Rockhampton, lost her sight at abont seven :~:ear~ of age, and wa.-:, ~cnl frorn Hockhanlp­ton-away from her parents-to this school in South Brisbane. She was educated there up to the stage of qualifying for the State scholarship. and then went to the Brisbane State High School. After t\YO years there, she obtained a ven- meritorious pass in the JLmio1· public Pxan1inatiun. and at the C<nd of t 1 ~'P prc:.;;e·nt ~Tear ~he \\·il1 lu~ a candidate for tho Quecn::-land ·cniYcrsit-11T 80nior .exalnination, a.nd I \Yish her success.

Mr. ::'vLmEH: It is not imposing to0 great a strain on her neryou.s syston1?

Mr. GAIR: I do not think so. She is a ,._cry strong robust young lady, and in addi­tiOn to her school work she finds relaxation and variati0n in the study of music and in writing poetry. One rnight ~a v that she is an extraordinary character-unusual-but there arc many other cases, which if not so brilliant, are excellent examples of the good work that is being done there.

In a~dition t? the ordinary school work, everythmg poss1ble has been d0ne to make the lives of these children as happy as possible. They are taught music, and rccentlv one of thc> bovs of that school who was taught the flute obtained honours in an ·examination for which he sat. That goes to sh0w the vanety and value of the work of the teachers of that school. It is an excellent place. and I recommend the hon. members Df this Committc>c to call there when convenient, and see for themselves 'what is being d0ne in the interests of the blind and deaf children of our community.

These children are housed there almost all the year round-it is their home as well as their school-and althoug-h thev have very good playgrounds and' facilities for amusement. I should like to submit a request to the Minister to give immediate considera­tion to the erection of a recreation hall. I believe I have submitted this request before, and I hope this will be the last occasion that I shall have to plead with the depart­ment for its erection. One can well imao-ino th'! difficulties consequent upon having blind ch1ldrcn and de:tf mutes plaving in their class rooms during ]oisuro hotirs., It is not easy to control children with diJferent interests, such as tlwy haYo, in c]as..:; roorus or in any limited spa.ce. I bolicvo that with t~e erection of a vcr:;- commodious recren.­twn hall thcce children will be much bene­fited anrl the State will be contributing- a great deal to their happiness. I submit· the request to the Minister as a matter warrant­ing urgent considcrntion. because I believe ~hat a recreation hall is the school's onlv 1mm~diate need, and I am more than evc·r ·convinced that the request is a very \\"01'1~hy one.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. F. A. Cooper, IJremr.r) [3.36 p.m.]: I have listPnod with pleasure to what has been said concerning this in,qtitu­tion, and I can assure the hon. me m lwr for South Brisbane that his request ,,-ill l.w ginn

every consideration. \Yo ha \"O received va lu­abl.e aid from tho public fm thi,; school, thanks to the work of a Yerv r"c"ll('nt com­mittee, of which one, :'vir. 'E. J. Hanson, is tiH' chairman. \Yould that, by any chancP. be an 1·onc connected with YOU, :\lr. Chair­rnan '? ~ .As ~ n1atter of fueL the Chainnan of this Committee is chairman of the school connnitte0 and has done vcrv cxcellt~nt v•;ork in connection with it. \Ye "are particularly proud of the school and its work. and I can a:-;:;;urr the hon. nrcrnbet· for South Brisbane, in whose C'lertorate the school is situated, that 0\~Crv" consideration \Yill be gin'H to his n·quc,t ..

Item (School for the Blind and Deaf) 8greed to.

TEC'Ii:\IC.\L EDLC.\TIOX A~D APPREX1'ICESIITP CO:Ol':\IITTEES .

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRCC'l'IO:'\ (lion. F. A. Cooper, JJre m er) [3.38 )J.m.]: I move--

" That £106,738 be granted for 'Tech­nical Edncation and _-'\.pprcnticcship Com­mittees.' "

This Yote i·· somewhat in excess of the vote for last y(1 ar, the increase being due to the fact that there has been an extension in technical edueatiou, and an extension of apprenticeships due to the expansion of industry. It is Y8rj· necessary to keep up this work. and we are getting good results of the technical colleges and apprenticeship committees. I haYe very much pleasure indeed in mO\·ing the vote.

"\1r. GLEDSON (Ipswich) [3.39 p.m.]: I do not think that I can allow this Yote to go through without discussing the system of technical education in our State. For a very long time I have been connected with this branch of the work of the department. Indeed, I have to pay to our system of technical colleges the tribute that I received my technical training at its hands, and there obtained the certificates throug·h which I was enabled to attain the position I did. A tribute is duo to all the men and women associated with the technical colleges for their excellent work. Quite a number of men. tradesmen who have obtained a thorongh, practical, and theoretical know­ledge of their respective tradPs. in turn giYe their time anrl energy to teaching some of our boys and girls the practice and theory necessaJ'.I' to mako them proficient in their work. I pay a tribute to the very many part-time teachers, especially at the Ipswich Technical College and at other places, for their self-sacrificing efforts in helping· in this branch of education. In my opinion, it is one of the most important, because a country cannot progTe:--s unless it has an excellent l)odv of W0l1-train0d h•chnic.q] lllPll. \Ye arp incfinod to regard the State, in the main, as a primary-producing one, but vve n1ust not OYer!ook the fact that technical men, such as engineers, are required to assist the primary producer in his calling. For instance, it is necessary to have Pnglneers to carry out water supply for irrigation schf'n1C3, and to provide and repair rnachinery required in the planting and harvesting of Cl'OiJS. It is nnfortunatc that the {kpartmont is not able to do all that it should like to do in this connection. The Ipswich Technical College has endeav0ured for some time to obtain up-to-date machinery for the purpose of giving boys a thorough technical educa­tion, but it has not been able to obtain all

Mr. Gledson.]

1222 SuppTy. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

that it required owing to lark of finance. The vote has been iurreascc! this ,·car, but whether that will pro,·ide for 'increased equipment I am unable to sav. At least it will help to give increasecl educational facilities.

\Yondcrful im]>rOvements have been made in technical education in _._1\ustralia, in Europe, in the "Cnited States of America, in fad throughout the world, and I corn· mend the department for its effort in this direction. It is certaiulv worthy of the highest commendation for· its effor.ts to pro· vide opportunities for unemployed youths to obtetin a technical education. Opportunities have been provided in Brisbane, aud in Ipswich the classes have been attended by forty bovs. They have !wen taken from the stt·c~t corners, \\:here they had nothing else to do, and given opportunities to obtain a certain arnount of training in 'voodwork~ joinery and carpentering~tinsmithing .. plumbing, etc .. and their work at the college has been a credit to them and their teachers. Of course, it has not been possible to give them a technical training on a scale that would fit them to obtain employment as com­petent artisans, but they have been given opportunities to use their hands and brains and above all, to take an interest in wbat may be regarded as highly important occupa· tions.

As I have alreadv said, their work has been very creditable 'indeed. Some beautiful cabinet work was exhibited by some of these bovs at the Technical College exhibiti0n of wo'rk that was opened by the Minister a few weeks ago.

Their construction and finish are almost equal to anything that could be turned out by a tradesman. The work that is turned out by these unemployed youths affords cogent evidence of the possibilities of techrll· ea! education. I commend the teachers for the work that is being done. I hope the money will be made available to enable them to ·bring their equipment up to date in order to facilitate the training of our tradesmen of the future.

Mr. P. K. COPLEY (Kurilpa) [3.46 p.m.]: I desire to pay a tribute to the Minister for the attention and sympathetic consideration he has given to this phase of education in Queensland. Recent.ly, a State school build· ing was completed in my electorate, and the Minister has since seen fit to apportion certain of the old buildings for the use of classes in manual training work and domestic science. The provision of that accommoda­tion will save the children Ii ving in West End from having to travel to the inter· mediate school at South Briebane. I think it is a very fine idea, and one that I should like to see adopted wherever it is possible, I thank the Minister for his courtesy to me whE'n I had occasion to interview him during the time the building was being erected, but that aside, I hope he will complete the whole of the propowd buildings at the >erv earliest opportunity. ,

The apprenticeship committees are carrying out a splendid work. One of the main reasons for the prevailing shortage of skilled art1i~an~ i~ thP policy that wa~ pursnPcl b.'­the Moore Government. Had they allowed youths to be apprenticed we should, not have had a shortage of skilled men to-day. It will be remembered that prior to the tmn· porary reverse of Labour in 1929, apprentice· ~hip C'Xalninations were held:. and furty llosi-

[Mr. Gledson.

tions were adycrtised in the railway serYice¥ Up to November of that year no notification had been sent to the boys as to how they had fared in the examination. As a matter of fact, notices were sent out to them for political purposes, but the . boys did not receive anv appointment. I feel certain that. as a· result of the policy pursued by the Government and with the assistance of pri ,·ate employers, there will not be a shortage of skilled artisans in the future. I hope tho Minister will encourage in every poosible way the apprenticing of boys in every trade.

I should like to supplement the remarks of the hon. member for Ipswich about technical l'rlncation. 'The hon. mcrllbcr for Ipswich is particularly i11tPrestcd in this phase of education. and I feel that any words I could add to his remarks on the matter would be superfluous.

Mr. DUNSTAN (Gympir) [3.50 p.m.]: Reference has been made to the retirement of Mr. McKenna from the position of Director of Education, Perhaps, you, Mr. Hanson, may permit me, even under this vote, to join in the chorus of approval ~nd appreciation of the work he has done durmg his occupancy of that office. I do not believe in waiting till the time of farewells or epitaphs to pass judgment on how a man has carried out his work.

Time has inexorablv brought about the retirement of Mr. McKenna from his high position and on this occasion I wish to repeat \~hat I have said on several previous occasions. that I have found Mr. McKenna a very cou.rteous gentleman, and any request T have made to him has always received careful consideration. He has carried out his duties in a verv efficient manner. Oner· ous as the duties of t<'achers are in handling classes of pupils, imparting knowledge to them. and developing their capacity _to absorb it, much more onerous are the duties of the Director of Education in ronducting the education services of the State. Mr. McKenna has had control of thousands of teachers, has always been busily engaged in supervising work, and promoting the general welfare of the children attending our schools. In addition to looking after the s~hools themselves, he is ever on the lookout for new methods of education, so as to preserve the State's eminence in educational systems.

A word of praise i.s due at this period of the >ear when the annual report is presented a.nd .. the' Estimates are being considered, to the officers of the Department of Public Instruction. I refer in particular to Mr. McKenna, Mr. Riddell, and Mr. Morris and the others who carry out that groat indus­try in the interests of the State. Without making myself liable to being accused of adulation, I must say that the Minister has administered the affairs of his department \vith great ability, and has demonstrated a desire to develop what I believe is the accepted policy of the people of Queensland­that we should have an educational service second to none in the Commonwealth. I think a word of praise is also due to the many teachers carrying on their onerous job throughout the State. I know that tlv are not only exercising great ability in imparting knowledge to the young, but are also going beyond their official duties in looking after the athletic development and project club culture of their pupils. They

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1223

arc a !so doing a great deal of work in obtaining funds for the purpose of improving the school grounds.

In the annual report presented bv the Secretary for Public Instruction l\lr. Le'onard Morris, Snp:'rintcndcnt of Technical Educa­tiOn, has tlus to say-

" The ;;:econdarv industries have been increasing-, but Australia still imports many millions of pounds worth of manu­factured goods. and tho value of Bxports of such goods is very small.

"The main cause of the recent depres­r,lon in the' Con1n1onwealth was the clccrcaso in the production and consump­tion of manufactured goods. The Yaluc of manufacturing in the Commonwealth decreased from £159,760,000 in 1928-29 !o £106.456,000 in 1931-32. but it increased ~o £121,757,000 in 1932-34, and this is an mdcx of the Yerv definite revival which has taken place. ·

" It is evident that if we are to find suitable employment ~or our people we must g1ve more attentiOn to the develop­ment of our secondary industries.

:' The increase of the sccondan· indus­tncs in A,ustralia and in the State has :10t been accompanied by a very rapid mcrBase m the number of skilled trades­men,_ but the number of semi-skilled and unskilled operatives has increased con­SIC!erably.

" During the period mentioned (1901 to 1933) the distinguishing feature of manufa.cturB was the introduction of mass production and specialisation. . " Speaking generally, it is only pos­

B!bl!'. to manufacture successfully in com­pBbtJon w1th overseas countries if we adopt the most efficient methods."

Much has been said in condemnation of what has <'Ome to be known as economic natio?alism, meaning national self-sufficiency an_d mdepen~ence, and a policy of self-sus­tamed capaCJ!Y that does away with overseas trade. I beheve that much can be said in faV<>ur of economic nationalism if it means national self-reliance. To become self-reliant -of course, a nation must have adequat,; natural reeources, the desire to develop those resources, and the technical equipment and educ.atJOn to enable. that development to be carne~ out. I behove, too, that technical educatwn can be commended for its own sake, apart from the material welfare and advantage that it is to a nation. In Aus­tral_Ja, we have a country with a great vanety of natural resources, and, what is more, we have the natural mental ability of 0ur young people as well as our adults to develop all those natural resources, and to make ourselves a self-r_eliant and indepen­dent natwn, thus brmgmg about happiness amongst our people and· the development of our country.

It has been said that all wealth comes from the land. I would alter that to say that the real wealth comes from that little bit of grey matter in the brain of man. It has been said also that the farmer is the backbone of the country. That is true but there is also something in being the b~·ains of the countro:, and that is why I say that most of the lmprO\·ement in onr primarv industry comes not actually from the ma;, on the la?d-a\though he is doing great work m pwneenng and adopting the latest methods that are developed for him-but in

manv cases fron1 the men 'vho were never on the iand in their lives. from the mechanics, ctl'tisans, im·entors. professors who study and cleal with dbcasP" in stock. men who discover new breeds of wheat, and so on. In that respect. I think we all realise the value of technical education as an adjunct to the primary education of the State. GrBat work has been done, and is being done in that direction, but greater work remains to be don<'.

I believe that ultimate:y it will be neces­sary to extend the ago of leaving school by another two years, which, of course, will mean the expenditure of a great deal more public money, whether it be derived from taxation or otherwise. I am sure that it is inevitable that the day will come when it will be made compulsory to carry into effect technical education between the ages of four­teen and sixteen years, even though it might mean the provision of public money for the maintenance of those children whose parents cannot afford to maintain them during those two years. As far back as 1916, I read a paper on compulsory technical education before the Gympie District Teachers' Associa­tion. In that address I advocated the things I advocate now. I admit that I was con­siderably before my time, but I am pleased to note the development in technical educa­tion in Queensland and to see that the public recognise the value of technical training for the youth of our land.

Mr. McKenna, on his recent visit to the United Kingdom and Germany, I believe, came to the same conclusion. I know that in recent addresses to teachers' associations and also in his articles in the " Education Journal," he conveyed a good deal of information of the utmost value. I think he has still more to communicate to us, and when he does so it will be of the greatest benefit. From what I have heard Mr. McKenna say, and what I have read in his articles, I believe he has come to the con­clusion that the time has arrived for a further de,-elopment of technical instruction in this State. What he saw in Germany con­vinced him of the need for doing something along that line if we are to compete suc­cessfully with other countries and also develop our own resources.

There is no greater joy to any human being than to crBate something, to develop finished articles from the crude material, to make the ugly into the beautiful, to devise and contrivB means of avoiding disabilities and remedying defects in industry, and to help in every way to promote the use of tho natural resources we have at our com­mand. As an instance of what has been dono in that way, I should likB to quote what I have quoted before to show how great was the supremacy in technical instruction adapted to industry of the people of Ger· many before the war. This has been empha­sised bv Mr. McKenna in his addresses to us, for ~he has shown us how, sinco the war, the Germans are developing that policy, In "Hansard" of 28th November, 1917, on pagos 3361 and 3362, the fo'lowing quota­tion was made by me in a speech on tech­nical education:-

" One writer, Baron de Hauleville, of Belgium, in an article on the Germans in Brussels, before the war, said-

' Corn bine their marvellous svstem of technical education with the education in the elementary schools (the best in

Mr. Dunsta1~ J

1224 Supp'y. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Europe), and you have the secret of the present power of Germany, poli­tical and economic, with it'< future incvita.ble consequenCes.'

An article entitled ' The Future of Dye Making' appeared in the ':Manchester Guardian' of 20th March, 1917, which contained some truths in regard to tcch­mcal education which were worthv of the attention of hon, member,;, -and from which he would quote the follow­ing extracts :-

' The first sod of the new territorv (in the synthetic production of chemical dyes) was cut by an Englishma.n, but he had no followers, whereas an army of youths trained in German secondary schools were roody to take possesswn, It cannot be too often pointed out that Germany has to thank her educational system for her grip of this most power­ful industry, Industries rise or fall according to the mental equipment of the people in charge of them, so much more than by the legal machinery that happens either to help or hinder them, No industry could ask for better help than a plentiful supply of trained and disciplined minds. If we want a share of the dye trade, we must subsidise it in the same way that Germany subsi­dised hers. It is the only subsidy that does not demoralise and that brings ene>rmous returns. Germany' a supremacy in the manufacture of dyes and fine chemicals is based on her supremacy in secondary education, and on nothing else. It is the men that are wanting to us-the army of t.rained and disciplined young men that pour into the German factories every year from her secondary schools. That is the subsidy that the German manufac­turer gets from his Government. He needs no other. It is the kind <:>f assistance that has brought the Ger­man manufacturers so swiftly to the front, and neither in the dye industry nor in any other shall we hold our own agaimt Germany unless we beat her in the schools. For what we spend on it, our educational system is as good as we have any right to expect. But until we look at the situation in a dif­ferent light altogether, we may give up any hope of competing with Ger­manv in anv branch of scientific manu­facture. The German dye trade, with its capital value of £49,000,000 and its profits of 28 per cent., is Germany's dividend on a small part of her edu­cation expenditure. If \Ve want divi­dends like that, we must invest our money in the same stock.' "

I recognise that to cBtablish an adequate system of technical education in Queensland, properly equipping the schools and training specially qualified teachers, would require a great deal of money. I believe, though, that every man who has developed a faculty for arts and crafts, not only becomes a better skilled artiBan, but also a better social unit in the community. He acquires a love of creating se>mething from his brain and hand. I know that years will probably elapse before we shall achieve our ideals in that respect, but I take the opportunity of again expressing my belief that if we in Australia want to become a real nation, to develop our great resources, and to become the great people of the Southern Hemis-

[1J1r. Dunstan.

phcrc, \VC ITitbt train our ovvn youths to· become skilled artisans capable of develop­ing our natural resources, and thus enable them to compete in trade and commerce and industry throughout the world.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTIO:::\ (Hon. F. A. Cooper, B~'eme~) [4.7 p.m.]: I should like to say that m thts vear's Estin1atcs proYision ha::; been mad.e to t·c,tore the snhsidv in fnll to those tcchm­cal colleges that are 'outside the ambit of the department. In other words, everything that we can possibly do is being done to further technical education in this State.

Mr. MOORE (Aubigny) [4.8 p.m.]: \Ye appreciate very much the work of the rural schools and we know what they mean to the childre;, attending them. The ""pansion of t lwse schools 'dwrever poss,ible may well be advocated. Exhibits at various shows indi­cate the good use that is being made of this branch of education, and everyone who has lived in the countr~· for a long time knows how valuable it is to have the opportumty of learning such useful occupations as tin­smithing and carpentering.

There is a statement in the report that I think grossly exaggerates the fa_cts, and is likelv to create a false lmpresston. On page 72, the Superintendent of Technical Education says-

" The main objection to the rural occupation is the poverty of the remuneration earned by those who ha~e given the life a fair trial. Except m specially favoured industries, ~uch as sugar-growing and wool productiOI_l, the remuneration paid is altogether made­quate. In many cases wages from 12s. 6d. to £1 a week and keep are paid to strong, experienced, intelligent men, and when the slackness of the winter season approaches they are infor:nc? that if they so desire they can remam 1'! employ­ment for ' tucker ' or take a holiday. In some cases they 'are not offered railway fare home, and are compelled to 'jump the rattler.' Young men faced with these conditions realise that it will never be possible to save enough to pay ." deposit even e>n a small farm, or to sen­ously consider matrimo'!Y· They, _there­fore, decide to take thmr chances m the city, and accept relief labour."

I do not know where Mr. Morris got his information. Possibly he had been in touch with some unfortunate individual who had that experience, but to my knowledge that ;::\1rt of thing does not l1appen in the country districts. As a matter a fact, I know tlutt in slack times every effort is made to find jobs to keep the men on. Farmers do not want to let them go. I have neYer found a case where people working under those con­ditions wer0 told they could stop and work for tucker, or bke a holiday. That does not apply to the dairying industry on the Dar­lino- Do\\'Il". or to the wheatgrcnving Indus­try: or to fat lamb raising. Those .se_nti­ments are entirely opposed to the optmons expressed in this Chamber by the Pr,mte~, when he pointed out that many boy Immi­grants had been successful on tho land. He also said that some of them owned then own farms. and that man;: others are in the pro­cess of owning them. They were not placed in the rircun1stances n1entioned in this report. It is true that part of their wages were retained, and paid into a fund unde:, the control of the Government, but that 1s no

Supply. [28 OcTOBER.] Supply. 1225

reason why they should not be able to deposit some of tho money retained by tho;n in Savings Bank accounts if they wished to do so. The report gives an entirely wrong in1pression, and n1ight lead to the inference that a particular in;tanco is of general appli­cation. ::\Iost hon. members on this side haYc cngag8d in rural pursuits, and we know that. that ie a wrong conception of countr,- life- as i~ also this stat(:DlC'lli in the report'- ' .

" It has been stated bv eorno that the pleasures of city life, t'he loneliness 0f country life, the long hours of labour in the country, 130111etimes extending fro1n 5 a.m. till 7 p.m .... "

It would be a very rare case in which a boy would be asked to work from 5 a.m. to 7 p.m. That might be so when hay was ripe and being harvested, but it would not be true under normal conditions. It would not be pos~ible to induce a boy to work those long hours. The report gives an entirely false impression of country life, and although it says that it is not of general aptllication in the sugar and pastoral indus~ tries, it sug·gests that those conditions apply in all other primary industries. One has only to look in the newspaper to see adver­tisements offering employment to competent men at 30s. and 35s. a week and keep. Nothing is said in the report about the fact that girls are employed in shops in Bris­bane at 10s. and 15s. a week and have to find themselves. The report places country life in a rather unfair light. ·

The report goes on to say-" In our rural school and vocational

centres we are providing instruction in wood, shee_t metal, leather working, and blacksm1thmg, and clubs of various kinds also cultivate a taste for rural pursuits. Tlroso educational facilities help to keep the son of the farmer on the land, and provided he receives ~a pi tal assistance . from his parents he 1s hkely to appreciate the advantages of country life."

I knmv of dozens of cases of sons of farmers who have received little capital assistance from their fathers. but whose experience gaiuccl in work on the land has enabled them to take up Crown land and to improve it out of the income derived from it, and who haYO thu . ..; becorne yery succpssful. :0Tear1y all of the most prosperous farmers in the ~loscly ;cttl(d clistricts on the Darling Downs, rrom Crmv s Ne.t along the Range to the scrub lands of Dalby, took up land with almost no capital at all. Thev took up !Jomcstcacl selections of 160 acres' at 2s. 6d. a.n acre, and were ablo to n1ake a success o~ their undf:)rtakings, und rear farniliec-, h:.' dmt of hard work and the application of intelligence.

Mr. O'KEEFE : How are they doing'

I\h. ?IIOORE: They arc the mo.st prosper­ous of our rocttlers to-day, and they are so in rna.ny cases because thn.Y \Yore detcnninod to make money out of the soil before launch­iug out on cxten~ivc irnproYeinenb, ·whereas to-(lay nc\v settlers are encouraged to borrow and to build expen>ive houses before they arc able to win anything from the soil. The most successful settlers have boon those who \Ye re prepared to begin by living in Lark huL', and wr•ro content to win from the ,oil tlw money required to build more comfort­able homos. They ,-ere men of experience

and intclli~enec and thov were satisfied to in11n·ovo tl~~ir r'laccB graaually out of their incon1e frmn tho land unti.l it bc~arne ('Dtircl~- sc1f-supportiug.

1 f it is possible for the immigrant boy who comes out hero and under the terms and conditions that g01·orn apprenticeship on a farm to become the pos·,essor of a farm or the worker of a share farm in the space of four or flvc ~·ears, or even roach the stage ,-here he is able to see good pro·]wcts ahead of him, it is surely possible for the ordinary inclividual who is not brought out here to face 0ntirely new conditions to do equally well. To-day ono can see the sons of farmers taking up undm·eloped land and developing it, and becoming successful farmers. In the beginning of this report it is said that there are compensations on the land, but they are enclently not treated as compensations a little further on in the report, the whole tenor of which goes to show that the induce­ments in the country are not nearly sufficient, that the hours of labour are too long and the remuneration is too small. My experi­ence causes me to believe that the individual who is intelligent, experienced, and strong is far better off at the end of the year if he is work;:>g on a farm, and has a far bigger cheque than the man who is earning the basic wage in the town, where there are so many opportunities for spending it.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRcCTION : Is that in the report?

Mr. MOORE No my experience tells me that. It is remark~ble how quickly a man's earnings mount up when there are no oppor­tunities for spending it. There is not a "b!ngo " game at m·ery corner in the country to mduee a man to spend money.

'l'he rest of the report is unexceptionable, but it seems to me that one or two individuals have a biassed opinion, and the result is that things appear in the report that are damaging. Many people will read it--it will be published in various papers-and it wi!l lead people who have children to consider vorv cardullv whether thev should allow their sons to enter into an occupation where the disabilities are as thev are painted in this report. If they had the opportunitv of a little experience outside Brisbane thev would know that thov need not take so much notice of the remarb in this report. It is unfortunate that the disabilities aro stressed to the extent they are. To a great extent tlwv al·e untruthful. Thcv muv be truthful in an odd case, but it has iwt been my experi­ence. I do not know \\·here these conditions exist. Such conditions may operate in small vegetable farms round about tho citv but cerhinly they do not exist in normai 'farm occupations. Particularly they do not exist in the cotton, wheat g-rowing, and lucerne hay grovving industriEs. If you want ~ good man you have to pay good wages.

The SECRETARY FOR Aomc<:LTURE AxD STOCK: The cl ifficulty is to get them.

Mr. blOORE: Yes. You can bet the~ follow who savs he knows how to clo the work, but voll find v.hen he is unloadin:.t a dr:Lv that· he stands on cvcrv forkful! he shove,s~ on the stack. The intelligent \vorke;_· can cornrnand a good \Yagc in the cou11try. A good nc:m has not to go outside the gatP before ho i' snapped up by somcbocl v cl;c. A strong, intelli0-cnt .and expcricncc~l nw .. n has no ncccl to look for \\ ork in the country.

Mr, .iVIoorc.]

1226 S<upply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Farmers all have their eves on such a man should he be free at any time. The state­meniB in this report are damaging. and create a \\TOng jn1pression.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC 1:'\­STRUCTIO]\: (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Brcmer) [4.21 p.m.}: I have listened with interest to the remarks made bv the hon. member for Aubigny. It is ple.asing to hear him sav that conditions are better in the countrv th;,n we are led to believe. I am sure the remarks made by the hon. gentleman will give much encouragement. I confess I have been confused by the various statements one hears about employment in the countrv. Mr. Morris is a science man, and took a very fine course in science at the Sydney University, and "his taste exact for fault­less fact amounts to a disease." I am sure he d_id not write his report without due con­aideratwn, and without giving weight to the evidence, not only that placed before him but that he sought for himself. If the statements in his report are not in accordance with fact, so much the better. I am mre if it can be shown to Mr. Morris he had judged from a very isolated case or two ~e would be. ready to correct any wrong Impression hiS report might have created. At the .same time, I am pleased to have the assurance from the hon. member for Aubigny that there are opportunities for employment in country districts.

Mr. DEACON (Cunningham) [4.23 p.m.}: The opinions expressed by Mr. Morris are not exactly his own, because we have heard them expressed very often in this Chamber by hon. members on the Government side. One finds in the country a real difficulty in getting a man who knows his job and the wages paid to a good farm hand' tak­ing all things into consideration are 'above the basic wage. I am not r~ferring to men of the type we get from th" city quite often. They are incapable of doing farm work. They do not know at which end of the cow to start milking. They do not even know how to chop wood. The average chap you get from the city might get a few shillings to do an odd job here and there. I have had manv call on me aekin.,. for a job, and if I offe~ them a job to find out what they can do they expect the same wages as the man who can do the work. The fact that these incapable men onlv com­mand a small wage crt'ates the imprc·sion that farmers arc poor payers of labour. If you go to a farm and seek a fh·<,t-cla·'s man to do particular "·ork it is intero.sting to know what } .)ll havf' to pay for him. c\ man vd1o knows the iob eau Carn tnore than the ba.sil' \Vagf'. .,

The SFrRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE A!>D STOOK: V\~hat can a really good all-round man get?

Mr. DEACO:"J: He can get from 10s. to 12s. a rlav and his keep. If I want a man, th0 lmvcst I can get him for is 10s. a day and keep. It does not matter whether it is for a day's work, a fortnight's work, or a month's work. I cannot get them to come for less than 10s. a day and keep.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRicTLTURE AKD STOCK: That is easual w0rk?

Mr. DEACON : Even if it Is three mcmths' work. the position is just the same. A good man can get that quite easily. I know, "hen I employ such a man, that I have not got to tell him what to do. I have

[Mr. Moore.

not to tell him to go and mend a fence or do some other job. He knows what to do and he, do<'S it.

The CHAIRMAN : I l1ope the hon. mem­ber can connect his remarks to the qtHc,tion of "Technical Education and Apprenticeship Committees.''

Mr. DEACO:"-J: This is dealt with in Mr. _}I orris's report.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! We are not discussing Mr. Morris's report. iVe are dis. cussing this vote, which is quite a different thing.

Item (Technical Education and Apprentice­ship Committees) agreed to.

STATE COMMERCIAL HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. F. A. Cooper, IJrcmer) [4.27 p.m.] : I move-

" That £8,767 be granted for ' State Commercial High School and College."

As is indicated, this vote provides for the salaries of the administrative and instruc­tional staffs, and for the wages of cleaners, and for the general maintenance costs of this college. In view of increased enrolments, the appointment of additional teachers has been necessary, involving increased expenditure on account of salaries. Automatic scale increases have also been provided for officers eligible to receive them.

The college is a good one. It has the good opinion of the commercial section of the community, and pupils at the college and pupils leaving college are very much sought by the commercial interests of the State.

Item (State C0mmercial High School and College) agreed to.

MISCELLANEOUS SERVICES.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Bremer) [4.28 p.m.]: I move-

" That £500 be granted for ' Miscel-laneous Services. '"

It will be seen that this vote is required as a grant towards the establishment of a cen· trill circulating library. iVe have in Queens­land an association known as the School of Arts Association. which is c<:>mposcd of various schools of artS---I understand that the association does not cover them all. One can realise the difficulties under which schools of arts have been labouring since the grant to schools of arts was abolished in 1929. That g-rant has not vet been roctored. 2\l[uch co,npl'aint has been· made about the 'Yav in which the schools of arts haYe boon cm;'r!uctod, particularly as to the type of books thc,y buy. The reading public demands the noYel. and because of their limited incomes the schools of arts have not been able to buy enongh books of the type that the aYerage reader demands. The result has been that the privat,o circulating library in manv of the small towns has beaten the locaf school of arts for subscribers. Schools of arts wore not instituted fo1· the purpose of circulating the novel. ThPro is nothing against it, to my mind it is quite good, but that is IJOt altogether art, and the schools of arts were established for the purpose of encouraging the arts. They have got down to the stage now that the only thing they encourage is general literature and

Supply. [28 OCTOBER.] Supply. 1227

'vorks of reference on vari0us subjects. I recommended to Cabinet that we give a grant of £500 for this vear for the establishment of a central circufating library, and that we ask the committee of the Schools of Arts Association to expend this n1onoy in the pur­<'ha>e or hire of books and in the circulation of thosfl books amongst the various schools of arts of this State. I do not know 0xactly what we can do with £500, when we haY<' to take some of that money for expenses, but if we e.pent £400 on books and bought books of reference and other bo0ks at a cost of 5s. each. we should be able to pur· chase about 2,000 volumes. We should not give the whole of those 2,000 books to the one school of arts, but send a parcel of forty or fifty as it required them on loan for two or three months or longer, and it could then return them to the central authority, which would redistribute them.

That is one pr0posal. Another is that we enable the School of Arts in Brisbane to get a supply of books, not the ones in ordinary demand, but those that are just a little out· side that class, plus books of reference and technical books that are required, and so help to build up schools of arts in the country. We could do this by expending £1,000 a year, and in ten years we should have a reference library purchased for £10,000 that would be worth while, and people in the country who needed particular books could send to this library, and they <Jould be supplied through the local school of arts. By the expenditure of this money we could do more for the circulation of good literature, books of reference, and text­books in the country than in any other way. The association of the schools of arts will welcome it, and they are now formulating a scheme for submission to me for the expen· diture of this money this year. We cannot spend it until Parliament has voted it, but schemes are afoot already to spend this money in the best possible way to help people in the country to get a better class of litera­ture, and the student to get books of refer­ence and text-books that are not within his grasp in the ordinary schools of arts.

I believe it is a good scheme, it will be a benefit to the people, and it will grow as the years go by. It might be possible, with th0 establishment of a public library in Bris­bane on up-to-date lines, to associate the circulating libraries with it, so that the public library would be circulating some of the books to country readers, and the people of Brisbane would have the books at their dis· posal that they desired. From this £500 something big will come that will be an adde.d factor in the education of the people of this State.

:\Ir. MAHER (West Moreton) [4.33 p.m.]: The ;v1in.ister did not say where the central committee was to be located that would distribute these books.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC INSTRl:CTro:-< : It is a committee of the association of schools of arts, and they haYe delegates from various institutions. l'vlr. Copeman, the pre­sent headmaster of Toogoolawah State School, the headmaster of Boonah State Rural School, and the Rev. Mr. St. George, of Sherwood, are all members. and there are representatives from other ·bodies that form the association.

Mr. MAHER Do they meet in Brisbane?

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC lNSTRUG1ION: Yes, and they generally meet during Exhibition w0ek for the transaction of busi· ness. A good deal of that work is done by correspondence, and at other times when poc'plo are able to get to the city.

Mr. MAHER: Did I understand the hon. gentleman correctly when he said that only certain schools of arts throughout the State would participate in the benefits of the circu­lating library?

Th,, SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC INSTRUCTION : Those who are in the association at the beginning, but I am sure others would come into the association.

Mr. MAHER : There is to be no discrimi­nation against them, and they will have the right to come in?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRl:CTION : Yes, I can assure the hon. gentleman of that.

Mr. MAHER: The schools of arts have been starved for grants during the past few years because the Government have had to provide for more urgent needs. I think this appropriation is a move in the right direction.

There is no doubt that there is a demand for good literature in our country districts, and it is sometimes difficult to satisfy that demand because the local schools of arts have not the funds. Often there is a lack of interest, and at times the majority of people want a class of book that the more cultured section do not approve of, and so difficulty arises. It is a good move to make this provision as a beginning for the estab· lishment of a circulating library. If good books can be circulated throughout the schools of arts in the country districts it will indeed be an achievement.

Mr. DEACON (Cunningham) [4.36 p.m.]: 'I'his vote certainly is an improvement on last year, but why could not the Minister have done all this before?

Mr. KING: I knew there would be some­thing '\Vrong.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC INSTRUCTION : J wonder, myself, too.

Mr. DEACON : The Minister accused the Moore GoYernmcnt of robbing the schools of arts for two years.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC INSTRUCTION : Three. I have accused them of that before.

Mr. DEACON: The Minister, himself, robbed them for five. Here. in the fifth year, at any rate, and he is proposing to make some sort of restoration.

::\1r. O'KEEFE: There was nothing to rob them of.

Mr. DEACON: He has profited for four years by the reductions made, and he has not oven said he was sorry for it.

The SEORETAlW FOR PuBLIC INSTRUCTION : I may express my contrition in a little while.

Mr. DEACON: The Minister accused the previous Government of robbing them. He did not put it so plainly, but he meant that all the same.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC lNSTRUCTlON : I am pleased you understood V~"hat I meant.

Mr. DEACON : He took the benefit of it to himself for four years, and has not even said he was sorry ! A more unrepentant

1fi1·, Deacor! .]

1228 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Finner never faced an audience. (Laughter.) Not the least sign of repentance !

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIO INSTRUCTION : Oh! Unrepentant. I thought you said repentant !

j,Ir. DEACON: ='lot the least sign of repentance.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTIWf : How do you know?

Mr. DEACON: The Minister ought to be ashamed of himself. but he does not look like it. He is one of those hardened sinners who never look ashamed of anything. I hope that in the future he will be.

Mr. KING (Jlare~:) [4.38 p.m.]: I listened with a good deal of interest to the hon. member for Cunningham. \Vhcn he rose I felt some wonderment as to what he could find wrong with the scheme. He set out to find a wrong somewhere, and started by blaming the Secretary for Public Instruc­tion for not bringing in the scheme long ago.

Mr. DEACON: And you, too! You were as bad.

Mr. KING : I might be worse if the hon. member only knew me.

Mr. DEACON: Quite likely you are.

Mr. KING: I do not see why the hen. member for Cunningham should have the prerogative in this Chamber of condemn­ing the Government for whatever it brings forward, or of endeavouring to insult me. (Laughter.) I rose for the purpose of com· mending the Government and the Minister for this scheme. I am very pleased that it has been brought into existence, and it should appeal to sixty-one hon. members. I am sorry to find the hon. member for Cunningham all alone in his opposition.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Bremer) [4.39 p.m.]: Perhaps I had better make a confession.

l\Ir. DEACON : Apologise and confess.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IX­STRUCTIOX: Probably either I did not think of it before, or I forgot it. (Laughter.) The hon. member knows the story of the man who was found to have been asleep for ten years, and when his landlady was asked how it happened, she said sh~ forgot to call him. It may be that I had forgotten tlus.

vY c do not always get a thing in its right light. As soon as this sehernc was allnounced I got a letter fron1 a n1an in ihe conntr:: who asked 1no to obtain for hirn a text­book entitled. "Stooks in the Sunshine." I know \Yhat stooks arc. J-:J aYing been reared in a ·,.·heatgrowin.r::,· di..;,trict. the only ::-took:-; that I knc'v anyHdng about \YOre stooks ?f wheat. aucl that tlwv had to be stacked Jll the suushinc to gaiil any benefit. After a consid0rahlc a1nnunt of rt·scnrch I found ihat the only book approaching anywhere nPar the title was one by E. Phillips Oppenheim, entitled "Crooks in the Sunshine." (Laughter.) Perhaps that wrr,; the book that he wanted, and as I knP\\- less about crooks than I did about stooks I sPnt the book along. I shall read it when I get it back. (Laughter.)

Mr. MooHE: When you do. (Rcnc,Yed laughter.)

[111r. Deacon.

Tho SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I:'\ STRUCTION: The hon. member for ~.:_\ubigny doubts the intPgrity of the 1nan vd1o asked for the llook. I mn ~orry that he does so.

Quite apart from that, the Government have rriyen the n1atter Yery senous con­sideration. It was ono way out of a difli. cultv. "' e felt that we should not be serving a good purpose by restoring subsidies to the schools of arts. It is true that I may haYe said things about the Moore Govqn· ment over a. series of years. but if hon. members would search 'Hansard." I do not think that they would find I condemned the Moore Government on the question of subsidies to schools of arts. . I know . that the hon. mE\mber for Cu)llmngham IS a student and that he has given co_nsidera ble time t'l the study of Chinese philosopher~. I also know that he believes that there Js something in the saying of the Chm_ese philosopher who said, " Truth is not a dwt. it is only a condiment." (Laughte;·.) I can assure the hon. member that he JS not very free with his condiments. (Renewed Iau~'htPr.) If I haYe erred in this connoc­tio,;' and have fallen short in my duty, I ask him to intercede for me. I hope that this scheme in the future will be some repara­tion for my sins of the past. I cannot say more than that.

Mr. DEACON (Cunninoham) [4.42 p.m.]: There is only one thing that I. d_esire to do and that is to correct the MmJster in hi~ pronunciation. He said " stooks."

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC lNSTRUOTI?N :_ That is what I called it. I am sorry If I am wrong.

Mr. DEACON: I submit that he should have said "stoo-ooks." (Laughter.)

The SECRETAHY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : I know.

)fr. DE_._\CO~: Yes, "stoo-ooks."

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I.'<~ STRUCTION (Hon. F. A. Cooper, Brcmeri [4.43 p.m.]: I accept _the correctiOn by the hen member for Cunnmgham 'Y'th pleasur<'. I hope that when I hav: oecaswn to con:ect him in the future. he WJil accept the correc­tion just as willingly. (Laughter.)

Item (Miscellaneous Services) agreed to.

DEPAHT~!EKT OF AGRICULTURE AND STOCK. CHIEF OF FlOE.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE AJ'\D STOCK (Hon. F. W. Bulcock, BC!rcoo) [4.44 p.m.]: I move-

" That £73,836 be granted for ', Der;art­ment of Agriculture and StocK-Clnef Ofiic'"·'"

Th0 anwunt asked for this year is £3.265 n1ore than the appropriation l;.st year. Salaries sho·w an increase of £2,410. and con­tilHtcncics an increase of £850.

;Ir. WALKER (Com·oora) [4.4.5 p.mJ: A1thongh the appropriation askP<l for t~" year is a little o\·er £3,000 more. than tne ~ppropriation last year, I can qmtc under­stand that it is justified on account of the inercaso in pri_mary production, and the prcsc•nce of many plant diseases.

The rather YOluminous annual report of the dcpartn1cnt has bcc~n very. "\VCll cou_l­piled. bnt it would have been Improved If an index had been made. I confe'B the1 t I miss the index to the report. Hon members

Supply. [28 0CTOBEH.] Supply. 122[1

noecl to make reference to it from time to time, particularly during the diocnssion. on the Estimates. for the purpose of making quotations, and an index would be very useful. In other respects it is a very gqpd report. particularly the matter supplied by the Director of }Iarketing. Knowing that gentleman as well as I do, I can confidently sa.y that it is only a 1na.n qualified .as he i:; and as skilled who could produce such an efficient report.

I notice that much space is taken up m dealing with the activities of pool boards. tThc report contains an account of their activities. which have been very successful during the ten or ftfteen years they have been in operation. The Honey Board is selling its honey through one agency. Although that system was in operation when I was Secretary for Agriculture and Stock, I was opposed to it. The time has arrived when it should get more agents to handle its honey and thus create competition. Hon. members know that competition between various agents stimulates the market. Honey is an item that is sold to a large extent outside the State, and at the present time the market is very poor. It is wise to keep up our connection with agents on the other side of the world. The agent that was handling the honey before the creation of the Honey Board was a Queensland firm with unusually good English connections. The advance given on honey from the North Coast is ld. a lh., and it is held in stock for several weeks. It is essential that some­thing should be done to expedite the sale of this product. and I should like to sec the department spend a little money in an endeavour to attain that objective.

\V e all know the officers of the depart· ment arc highly efficient. I do not know where ono could find a more conrteous and efficient body of officers in any department.

Much of the report is taken up with an account of the activities of the scientists. The time has arrived when the States and the Commonwealth should confer with a view to eliminating the over-lapping- of the work of State and Commonwealth scientists; but due reg-ard must be paid to the fact that Qnecnslancl is situated in the tropical zone. and is subject to InorP di,'iensE's and parasites than the Southern States. I sug-­gest to the ::VIinistcr that he bring that subject up at the next conference of the' A11strallan Agricultural Council. It is vcrv difficult to follow the reports of those scientists and ascrrtain if th0y are carrying out thr~ -work wo belie-..-c thc:v arc doing. You find th·1 t the sa m~ old ;vorm is still doing wuch th'"' same arnount of Uama,ge to the ""liTH' cTop, bnt the scicnti:-.t.:; llcver seern to cfttch it. Tlw report should clcarlv indicate what they are doing-. All tho cnto~nologi~t3 and pathologists scen1 to be clJa 1ng sornething-, bnt thPrc SCC'Ill:-:l to be a sirnilar1ty· in their reports fror11 year to •?ear. l\iy difftcn1ty is to find ont \Vhat thc·v' are actna1l;.~ doing, and check their '\', ork. 'Their acti ,·itie> and t be rc;ults obl.a ined ehou ld be set out in plain language that could be readilv understood bv a lavman. A little while~ ago there \Va~ a p1'a~0 ue of grass­hoppers at Too\voonrba. Sorncone \vas sent up there and certain remedies were applied, but the same infestation is likely to occur to-morrow. In the meantime nothing appears to be done.

The SECRF:TAHY FOR AGRICULTURE AND STOCK: \Ve have cleaned them up.

Mr. \VALKER: They cleaned the farmers' paddocks up _all right, and they will clean them up agam.

I notice with satisfaction that eYery board has pmd Jts duos. and tl!e balance-sheets indicate that they have practised economv. Until there is certainty about the position ~f marketmg boards it will be very difficult for them to function successfully.

The Minister must have been pleased with members of the Country Party the other day, :vhen, as practical men, we drew the attentwn of the House to the starving stock among the dairy and other herds 1n the ~tate. \':' e made practical suggestions, and It IS particularly pleasing to know that the Minister acted so quickly as a result of what was at first regarded by him as an unneces· sary motion. We sought to move the adjournment of the House to discuss this very important question, but, failing in that attempt, we adopted another method of emphasising the need for prompt action. Now we find that telephones were ringing all over the. c:mntry, and wires were buzzing, and the Mimster agreed to our su o-gestion of a conference. It is pleasing t'; know that many interested persons attended that conference, and they have gone back to their respective districts with information as to what the Government are prepared to do.

The hon. member for Wide Bay made a practical suggestion to me yesterday in con· ncct1on wtth the u:'::e of sugar-cane as a fodder. To supply cane to the No. 2 pool as it is known, is unprofitable to the grower: and that fact should be taken into considera­tion with a view to advising the farmers rn thE Yarjous dairying centres that cane-9an be obtained for a certain price. People m many centres do not know anything about the pncc o~ sugar-call('. still less do they know anythmg about a No. 1 and No. 2 pool. I should like to see the Minister take steps to get in touch with these men in Southern Queensland, either through the mills or the organi•,ations, in order to let then1 know \Vhat sugar-Lane can be pur­chased at, free on rail at their siding.

The SECRETARY POR AGRICULTURE AND STOCK: I arranged for the sale of three lots of canE:> to-day.

Mr. WALKER: It is pleasing to learn that the Minister works so silently. He seems to anticipate our movements. The ~u1r:)l:c of sugar-cane to 1Jecc.s.-::itou'3 dairv farmers, in conjunction with the availability of relief countrv on the coast should do a certain amount ~towards saving 1nanv of our cattle. Some people are inclined 'to trt.at the present situation lightlv. Our older cattle are being deetroycd 'to-day through drought, younger calves arc being sent to the abattoirs, and we shall have to relv on ~zcoping our Inedium-agcd stock for bfeed­Ing purposes next ycrtr. If \Ye cannot keep this class of stock for breeding Queensland will suiTer a tremendous loss. Even now, tl1c drought having continued for so long, the incon1c 've can expect to receiYe fron1 England, or other places of ,;de for our clair;: produce. will be approximately £1.000,000 less this year than last year. That statement of fact will give hon. members of this Chamber an idea of what lees thc•re \\ill be in income tax paid next year and the year after. Every effort shoulJ be made to

Mr. Walker.]

1230 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

;:,::n-u th_~ t!.lediutll-t:u.~ccl ;-;tock rt1- iLP ]H'e::::c'nt tiwr· ill poor condit~OlL I think tlv• ('ouutry Pad\· de:--el'YC' credit for haYing done \Ybat I ha,'ye ontliiJccl.

There has been a gTeat deal of criticism in connection with tho sugar industry. Ques­tions ha vo been asked from time to time as to how it is progressing. It was particularly pleasing to me, as a member of the Moore Dovernment, to know that the peak yc':r ··cheme which was introduced in ccrtam centres: is being continued. The Government in office before the Moore Government d1d not have the courage to put that scheme into force but it has saved the situation. It is inter~sting to note that although the Premier

<:10<_'-i not belicyo in the rc,:;:,trictinn of sugar­cane pmcluction he believes in the rational­isation of it. There is really no difference between the two things. Those people who ha vc been talking about the unfairness of the peak year scheme are mostly those who have been evading the law by supplying to their reepective mill, and that mill getting oYer its quota. If those people who have been complaining complied with the law .the whole of the people engaged in the production of sugar would he better off.

We find a great deal of criticism has been levelled at the action that has been taken by the Federal Government and has led to the refusal of Japan to operate at our wool sales. It is interesting to know that wool has brought a record price in spite of the .action of Japan and the statements that have been made in the Press regarding her intentions from time to time. The .Federal Government have done remarkably well. All along they have been advocating the desirability of manufacturing more of our raw materials in Australia. The quota that was suggested seems to be a particularly fair one, and I commend the Federal Govern­ment for being so strong, not only with regard to wool, but also with regard to cotton, tobacco, and other articles. It may be interesting to hon. members to know that the same principle is involved in the Federal Government's policy with regard to cotton and tobacco, but we do not hear one word of criticism from hon. members opposite, because those two commodities are grown mostly on the coastal areas, which are representee! by hon. members on the Government side.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE A)iD STOCK: Two totally different policies.

l\,Ir. WALKER: In principle they are virtually the same. Naturally, the C?mmon­wealth Government are trymg to mcrease the manufacture of woollen and cotton goods here as well as to preserve the tobacco indus­try. Although there ~~y be differ~mt. scal~s of duties, in my opmwn, the prmc1ple rs virtuall v the same and this policy has been an undoubted suc~ess. As far as Japan is concerned, we have to get down to bedrock. It is no u~e saying that we can produce, manufacture, or create any industry _that will be able to operate on lines competitive with the Japanese standard.

The Department of Agriculture and Stock coulcl launch out in many ways for the bet­terment of the State. In Quwnsland an enormous quantity of wheat, onion~, pota­toes barley and other commod1t1es are imp~rtccl fr~m time t~ time, All these things could be grown m Queensland to a gTr•Gtcr exrcrn thtlll they arc' at the present time. It is only fair to say, however, that

[iiir. Walker.

'.\'e rnust take iuto cons.idcra.tion the tm .. d seasons that pre\ail in the \Vheatgruwing and other clistricts, but nevertheless the acre. agr;;; ha \-t:' not h<'Pll lncrr·a -lng, nor ha\'(' ~l1e methods of cultivation improved. A litth' while a,go so1ne of the whratgrowers \"\Tote to the Department of Agriculture and Stock describing their methods of cultivation, and it was found that one or two of them had good crops every year in spite of any droughts there may have been. If then· methocls were made known to the wheat­growing community of Queensland I feel satisfied that much good could be clone. \Ye cannot deny that wheat is grown in Queensland on most primitive lines. In those clistricts which I have traversed I have seen that the implements used are equal to any in use in any other part of the world, so that the wheatgrowers have deve:opcd as far as their implements are concerned, and it is now a question of cultivation to combat the effects of drought. One year we had the spectacle of Queensland procluci':'g . only 2 500 000 bushels of wheat. Th1s 1s a depl~rable state of affairs when one realises that the annual consumption of wheat in Queensland is something like 6,000,000 bushels. We have the spectacle of money going to the Southern States to purchase wheat when we have many acres of land available for growing it. I strongly com­mend to the Minister the advisability of seeing if sonwthing eannot be done by way of a'i'ranging for a guarantc0d price for wheat so that the growers would have some incentive to 1increaso the acreages under cultivation. Some years ago the Wheat Board was formed, and the effect was to increase the production to an enormous extent. That board is doing particularly good work. I notice in the Auditor-General's report that there is now no waste. Five vears ago there was a waste of something like 140,000 bushels of wheat, but that seems to have been overcome by the con­struction of a new wheat dump and the improved arrangements that have been made. In that direction the pool has been remark­ably successful.

We come now to the dairy industry. It is only right to say that the drought affected procluction last year to a very great extent, which is a pity, because it is very hard to combat climatic conditions. ln 1935-36 there were 17,000,000 lb. h>ss production than in the previom year. Th11t reduced the flow of monev to assist to builcl up this great State. ,

The important question of grading arose again the other day, and we also had a ~on­troversy with regarcl to the new regulatwns under the Dairy Produce Acts. The ques­tion of grading for export came up and we were distinctly told that the proportion of choice butter was only about 35 per cont. In the annual report, only a month later, the average was shown at 54.97 per cent.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE AND S1'0CK: Owing to the clepression cluring the pre­vious year.

Mr. WALKER: When the Chief Dairy Inspector ,,-as broadcasting the other day: he quotecl exactly the same figures. That is a very fine result. If we can get 54.97 per cent. of our export butter graded as choice, plus the amount that is consumed in Quocnsland-which i9 not graded, but which we know is choice butter-it is a very fine record, and one of which we ought to

Supply. [:29 Omumm.] Questions. 1231

be proud. It clearly shows the people in ih., industry arc doing ''ery good work.

[ want the Minister to follow up the l"l't>orts that butter factories ha vc to make wl1cn suppliers are continually sending in too much inferior cream. Ho should put the inspector on to the trail of such men.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE A!'iD STOCK: It is being done.

Mr. \VALKER: It is no use saying it is being done, because it is not, and I can proYe it by looking at the dairy reports. Ono supplier to the Wide Bay Company has been sending in inferior cream repeatedly and there has not been an inspection for two years.

The SECRETAlW FOR AGRICULTURE AND STOCK: That is one individual.

Mr. WALKER: But it is a common occurrence. That is the secret of success. Let the Minister send an inspector to the dirty men and clean them up and leave the other men alone, who have spent a considerable amount of money in looking after their farms and dairies.

There is a very fine reference in the report to the stabilisation of butter. From a Commonwealth point of view nobody regrets the action of Mr. J ames or others responsible for that case, but it might cause no end of trouble so far as the State marketing interests are concerned. The members of the various butter boards in Queensland and other States of Australia have done very good work, but if the principle of the J ames case stands, we shall be in danger of finding ourselves about where we were when the Paterson scheme was in operation.

\Ve can branch out in the wheat industry and the dairy industry, and find markets for the surplus products of both. The maize industry, too, offers us a wonderful future. In Queensland we have unbounded tracts of land that are highly suitable for its production. In the Brisbane Valley, the Logan and Albert, Bcaudescrt, the Mary Valley, the Burnctt Valley-all oYer Southern Queensland-thcre are enormous areas that could be well utilised for maize and potato growing, but they are not used for that purpose at all. With the price of pigs at approximately 5d. per lb. to-day, we could increase our revenue considerably.

Another important industry for considera­tion is pig raising. Last vcar. 59.100 1nore were slaughtered than in the previous year-324,000 in 1935, and 383,000 in 1936. I am not talking about the abattoirs or the Yarious butcher shops in Queensland. Hon. members can soo that there is wonderful opportunity for tho extenswn of the pork tmdo. If the farmer could get anything like 4~d. or 5d. a lb .. he could nut his land under cultiYa­tion and go in £0r pig raising.

I con1e now to the i1nportation of potatot.s. In Queensland we are not producing our requirements, but can anyone say that aur land is not suitable or that ,,.e h<tYO not enough of it, when the price is £18 a, ton and there is a goocl a-..-erage price all tl10 year round ? There is talk now of J:-ee;1ing potatoes for a longer period than was p0ssibb a fe-...Y years ago. Some cncouragcn1cnt sho:Jld be given to· potatoe grov.-crs.

Look at the po,sibilitios of the citrus ]·.elt along the Xorth Coast line. and even on the South Coast line ! \V e \ye re growing so

much citrus fruit that at times there has been a glut and the fruit has been oacrificed. \\'hen I w:1s in charge of ~he Dcpartrncnt of Agriculture and Stock, at ono timo £5.000 worth of lemons rotted here in the city. That £5,000 should haYe been saved.

The tobacco industry has been carried on for onl.v five years to ·any extent in Queens­land, but I should like the hon. member fm­Rockhampton to know that through the action of the Federal Government in dealing with that industrv-and the cotton and other industries too nuillcrous for tnc to mention~ ~ow growers are perfectlv satisfied, and tobacco is selling at 4s. a lb., showing that thoro is a nrofitable markd. The average is 3s. 1d. If we can get that it is a good thing for the grower. I should like the· Minister to take some action-not to manu­facture tobacco-but to create a board with a view to selling all that loaf on the one floor, the board to be composed of represen­tatives of growers a11 over Queens! and. It would mean a great saving. \Ve are imp_ort­ing an enormous amount of tobacco mto Queensland but it is pleasing to note that last year ~e had a large yield, almost a. record. We had an expert from South Africa to give advice about the various diseases, and he has certainly done good work in the treatment ,,f blue mould by petrol yapour and other means, but a good deal of work is necessary to prevent over­lapping of the various authorities. I wa1:t to know the nature of the report o>f th1s gentleman from South Africa. Has he given any information to tobacco growers that wlll heip them to combat the diseases here, and has he been able to help in regard to culti­vation?

The Director of Marketing speaks in glow­ing terms of what has been do!l.e in regard to the cotton industry. That industry should never look back.

The CHAIRMAN : Order ! The hon. member has exhausted the time allowed him under the Standing Orders.

The House resumed. The CH.UR)IAN reported progress and asked

leave to sit again. Resumption of Committee made an Order

of the Day for tomorrow. The House adjourned at 5.12 p.m.

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